Re: [Biofuel] A question about lye
Hello Scott I'm attempting to produce my first test batch of bio-diesel. To keep things simple, I'm using fresh oil. Yes, but that's also where you should start to get it right. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Follow the instructions, step by step, adding variables one by one, use the quality checks before you move on. I seem to be having a bit of trouble though. My NaOH lye isn't dissolving fully in the methanol, and everything I've read says not to mix this with the oil until the lye is completely dissolved. Could I have bad lye? It will dissolve in the methanol even if it's not good methanol, so it must be bad lye. What is it and where did you get it? What does it look like? How long did it take not to dissolve? How did you mix it? Mix it this way: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#methmix KOH is better anyway, especially for novices. Lots of info on lye if you go to the start here and keep going, everything you need to know. HTH. Keith I would appreciate any suggestions. --Scott Burton Wellston, OK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] EPA to citizens: Frack you
Hi all I don't know about the US, but what this kind of privilege usually means in most of the places I've worked, parliamentary (or whatever) privilege, is that a member of Congress or the Senate can safely make public statements in the House without fear of being sued for slander or defamation or libel and so in the civil courts. If it's said in the House it's presumed to be in the public interest. You see. :-) The other side of the coin is that they retain their privilege to sue you if you say nasty things about them. Usually, if it can be shown to have been in the public interest, you can't be sued for it anyway, no matter who you are or where you said it. That can be very useful for newspapers. Defamation is injuring a person's good name or reputation, it depends on malicious intent. Slander is spoken defamation, it's transient; libel is defamation in permanent form, eg printed. In none of these does it really matter whether what's said or written is true or not, only the intent matters - is it intended to hurt or damage? Malicious lies are calumnies, making false charges with malicious intent. What we were discussing in the recent PLEASE READ thread is calumny. QED. That's all non-US specific, so you'd have to check it and see. Anyway, IMHO, if you're investigating criminal activity by Congressmen or Senators, their privilege might not give them very much cover unless it's been bent right out of shape. Like the US Constitution, for instance. Ulp. If nothing else, it would surely be worth knowing how far it does go to protect them. I think you have to try on all available boots to see which is good for kicking. Something else that might be worth checking while you're at it, if you could send them to jail this way, in theory, would it be so easy to find a judge these days who'd do it for you? Do you think there's room for them in the jails? The jails are packed with war criminals - war on drugs, war on terror, the class war and so on. Maybe you'd have to outsource it to China. Best Keith Marylynn, I seem to recall that there is some kind of special immunity for members of the US Congress and the US Senate as well as the President and V.P. It was set up back when the USA was formed to protect the law makers while they were in office from harasment by their opponents. The protection ends once they are out of office. As I recall they must be impeached or thrown out of office first by the US Congress before they can tried for crimes like a felony, or maybe it is jailed? I also seem to recall that it requires a US Marshal to arrest them? Don't recall all the details, but it is not a simple matter. On second thought, I am now wondering about Tom Delay's recent problems. Unless I am mistaken he was charged with a felony while still in office. Any way, I do recall from my Civics classes and US History that there is some kind of special protection and rules for them while they are in office, so, OK, I went and looked it up: The US Constitution says: They shall, in all cases, except treason, felony, and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to or returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place. Now the question is what does that mean today! It does not spell out what happens in the case of Felony's, Treason, etc. I suspect there is some case law somewhere that gets into the details. Any Legal Eagles out there? Mike McGinness Marylynn Schmidt wrote: The AMA, the AVMA are both trade associations .. and if you look you will find that all these trade associations are international .. all these international trade associations are international money. Laws are on the books that dis-allow any one .. even citizens .. but more so any elected official to accept any money or gifts from any foreign group. A little research should perhaps happen first .. it would be nice to know the exact wording. I should think that any elected official who receives any favor, any gift from any lobbyist from any trade association would be guilty of treason. I've never tried it but I believe citizens still have the right to arrest .. if that is so, then one small group in one state COULD ARREST .. I'd love it if it were to be Senator Frisk from Tenn .. for treason for accepting any contributions from the AMA. .. a better plan would be for enough states to arrest enough senators at the same time so the GOP wouldn't jump on some hastily devised bill that changed that law. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
An item I read of late that turned up on my PC suggests figures, "Only about 1.6 percent of the water on Earth is fresh. Most of it is locked, unusable for living things, in snow and the ice at the poles and on the peaks of the highest mountains." Doug. Another issue concerning the Car Powered by Water: Even if the invention works as he claims it does, i don't think water is the answer for a fuel source for cars. Yeah, it has basically no pollution and all, but what would happen to the water supply when everbody and their mom wants to "fill up"? I think most of us know what a valuable resource water is, and the pressing concerns for its availability in the coming years. Irrigation for crops and feed crops already consumes approx 85%-90% of the industrial water usage of the water supply (40% of that comes from groundwater tables) -and a lot of that is lost to evaporation/transpiration. Just a thought...-Chris -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Bob, The inventor was quite adamant that over unity was being achieved in the early years of development. I think he stopped using this phrase so as not to be seen as a whacko (all breakthrough inventors are seen as such). He was getting a lot of people interested but that was all. Anyway, some scientists have found temperatures being generated through cavitation to be off the charts. Something strange is going on. Everytime there is a a dramatic change in physics, there are always those that think it is blasphemy, for awhile. (Cold fusion is still under a dark cloud, but it refuses to go away. Wonder why?) Then as the science behind it becomes more widely accepted, there is a rapid change towards acceptance. Sonoluminescence is such a thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminesence Temperatures of over a million degrees K. have been found inside collapsing bubbles. Excerpt from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation Cavitating water purification devices have also been designed, in which the extreme conditions of cavitation can break down pollutants and organic molecules. Spectral analysis of light emitted in sonochemical reactions reveal chemical and plasma based mechanisms of energy transfer. The light emitted from cavitation bubbles is termed sonoluminesence. Peace, D. Mindock P.S. Now the term bubble fusion is entering the lexicon of physics. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water there is a big difference in the process of heating a liquid via ultrasonic energy input (NOTE ENERGY INPUT) and claiming to extract energy from nowhere. D. Mindock wrote: Dingel says he wants the money from his inventions to go directly to the people of the Phillipines. If he were a charlatan he would want the money for himself and then disappear with it. IMO, I think he's got something and I hope he finds a foundation, investor, etc., he trusts enough to get his technology tweaked mass produced. But the chances are slim at best. It is the same with other inventors like him. One exception, (there may be others?) from Rome, Georgia, stopped using the phrase over unity and was able to get his product which uses cavitation to heat up water, to market. He's now got a successful business going. But if he were using this to power cars, which he doesn't, I doubt if he would be in business. See: http://www.hydrodynamics.com/ Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water miki de mla wrote: I guess we just have to see the gadget to believe his claims... Be skeptical. Eyes can be deceived. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
David, Please illuminate me. Which statement did I make that is complete agreement with Rush? I think you've misread me, by a mile. Rush said the bird flu is a hoax? I had no idea that he had the balls to take on Rumsfeld, a major beneficiary of this hoax. But if he did then I agree with him. Mostly I think Rush is a mouthpiece for the Repug propaganda machine to be avoided. Yeah, bugs mutate. So what? Unless you have the perfect match, the vaccine is a waste. It is better by far to keep one's immune system in perfect working order, all the time. You are letting the Fear Machine of our leaders get to you, imo. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax D. Mindock wrote: You know, I'm just flat amazed to find Mr Mindock, whom I regarded as about as liberal as they come, in complete agreement with Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the conservative radio gang on anything. And here it is, in black and white. FWIW, which isn't much, I don't think bugs care at all about conspiracies, politics, or big drug companies. I think bugs mutate. Whether bird flu eventually mutates into something that can be passed from person to person because of agribusiness, free range birds, or pigs being fed infected chickens doesn't really matter once it starts to spread. --- David This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-04-24-flu-quarantine_x.htm April 25, 2006 Dr. Mercola's Comment: If this news concerns you, believe me, you're not alone. Many health experts, as well as airline personnel and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), feel the same way about the various provisions of this plan. The ACLU argues that the plan basically gives the government a free pass to detain whomever it wants to. The airline industry is balking at the $100-million-plus cost of creating and maintaining the huge passenger information database required. Georgina Graham, head of global security for the International Air Transport Association, also pointed out that it's ludicrous to give the job of identifying sick people to flight crews who have no medical training. It's starting to look like there's a hidden agenda behind the manufactured avian flu scare http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/avian_flu_epidemic_is_a_hoax.htm that goes far beyond pushing needless and potentially harmful drugs that don't work anyway http://www.mercola.com/2006/feb/4/flu_drugs_dont_work.htm. I guess if you can't frighten people with a flu epidemic that never happened http://www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/rumsfeld_to_profit_from_avian_flu_hoax.htm, you can limit the rights of travelers and collect private information anyway for the sake of nothing. *Sad but true.* *The entire bird flu scare is one of the most blatant hoaxes of recent times, and the popular media continues to reinforce the baseless story. You've been
Re: [Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost
Aarghh! Mistake. I said this about Howard's work: Have you read these? Basic texts on scientific composting by the man who invented it, in India 80 years ago. This work has never been overtaken or replaced, and confirmed and reinforced. It should have been: This work has never been overtaken or replaced, only confirmed and reinforced. Otherwise it's just embroidery. Sorry. Keith Hello Thomas and all, Temperatures above 65 C. are generally considerred to be limiting in that they tend to kill off large groups of microorganisms and slow down the composting process. I suggest turning the pile when temperatures get that high or you will pasturize the pile and need to regrow your biomass once the pile cools down. Large compost piles (usually in a curing/storage stage) have been known to catch on fire if permitted to dry out too much because they had not finished degrading bug edible material. Our compost quite often goes up to the 70s or the mid-70s C (160-170 deg F), usually by the next day. That causes me no concern at all. More often it's around the mid-60s though. It's not like making biodiesel, hotter than 65 C and you lose the methanol and it fails. What happens inside a compost pile is very complex, it's not that simple as that you kill off all the good guys when it gets too hot. I don't think it ever gets too hot. You certainly don't need to regrow anything afterwards. If you turn it, it happens all by itself and gets hot again, until it cools down again. You might not need to turn it, it depends how you make it and what it's made of. If you made it properly it won't run out of water at high temperatures and catch fire. When that happens (it's easy with chicken manure) it just loses steam and cools down again. More water and it heats up again. Once it's finally cooled down and everything has been through the process, it's ready to use. If you want to make sure, put some in a small pot and sow some cress seeds in it. If they germinate it's fully cooked with no VOAs or VFAs and you can use it straight away. I've never seen a compost pile that caught fire. I could be wrong but I think you'd have a hard time finding a gardener whose compost caught fire. Industrial composters use stuff like constant mechanical turning and air injection, or hot air injection, to speed up the process. If that's not properly done it might catch fire, but usually it's properly done. Or at least properly done as far as rapid processing of unstable organic wastes is concerned, but it's primarily waste disposal, as a soil fertiliser it's not much use. They can finish it in a day or less, but some of the important micro-organisms take at least seven days to develop their colonies. Maybe this is where the myth of compost getting too hot and killing off the good guys arose. I suppose they use compost like this in parks and so on, but if you happen to score a load of it for nothing the only use I can think of for it, presuming that it's free of heavy metals and the herbicides that won't break down and so on, is to use it as a bulk application to kickstart run-down soil, which you then innoculate in situ with much less real compost, as well as compost tea, preferably made with QR and liquid seaweed added. Anyway industrial composting is not what happens in a garden or on a farm. I'm also reminded of people who promote mesophylic composting over thermophylic composting, they also say the good guys get killed when it gets too hot, but then they usually seem to be selling something, and the excellent results of thermophylic composting are too well established to be brushed aside. I've also seen some of these people making claims they were unable to prove, such as that it breaks down things it doesn't break down (ie the herbicides I mentioned above). Mesophylic compost works, and a lot of people find it easier, but it's not better. Hotter is better. That's a big pile Tom's got, I'm sure it'll be fine. Interesting that the glycerine made it hotter than usual, it's a good sign, not a bad one. I've used unseparated by-product in compost and that works okay, but I haven't used separated glycerine. What are the economics of it for you Tom? How much did the phosphoric cost you, and how much of it did you buy? Tom says: Keith might take issue with the geometry of my compost piles. Not if it's usually 65 and now it's 71 and not if you've done what you've done to your garden with it, I won't take issue with it at all. Just as long as it works well and you like it. I would like to know if the addition of glycerine enhances the rate of decomposition in a compost pile. It must be enhancing the amount of decomposition or it wouldn't be so hot. The activity of the various micro-organisms which synthesize humus can most easily be followed from the temperature records. A very high temperature, about 65 deg C. (149 deg F.), is established at the outset, which
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
An item I read of late that turned up on my PC suggests figures, Only about 1.6 percent of the water on Earth is fresh. Most of it is locked, unusable for living things, in snow and the ice at the poles and on the peaks of the highest mountains. Doug. http://snipurl.com/qcpd Re: [biofuel] Sewage Waste Water - was: Somewhat OT: Animal Waste Water is a vast, wordwide crisis. It's killing lots of people. Next message: This was a great summary. Takes a lot of work. I forwarded it to several people who have expressed interest to me in water-specific issues. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the people I forwarded it to, an editor of an online mag, would want to publish it, in effect. Lots of info, from a few years ago, it's worse now. Best Keith Another issue concerning the Car Powered by Water: Even if the invention works as he claims it does, i don't think water is the answer for a fuel source for cars. Yeah, it has basically no pollution and all, but what would happen to the water supply when everbody and their mom wants to fill up? I think most of us know what a valuable resource water is, and the pressing concerns for its availability in the coming years. Irrigation for crops and feed crops already consumes approx 85%-90% of the industrial water usage of the water supply (40% of that comes from groundwater tables) -and a lot of that is lost to evaporation/transpiration. Just a thought... -Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Hello David Keith Addison wrote: D. Mindock wrote: You know, I'm just flat amazed to find Mr Mindock, whom I regarded as about as liberal as they come, in complete agreement with Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the conservative radio gang on anything. And here it is, in black and white. FWIW, which isn't much, I don't think bugs care at all about conspiracies, politics, or big drug companies. I think bugs mutate. Whether bird flu eventually mutates into something that can be passed from person to person because of agribusiness, free range birds, or pigs being fed infected chickens doesn't really matter once it starts to spread. Then what will you propose, that we sit back and figure out how to prevent it? I haven't proposed anything, and I don't really intend to. Excepting that other people shouldn't propose anything either, it seems, or they'll be sneered at. The days of risk assessment and waiting for sound science are numbered, the Precautionary Principle is both the future and now, and this isn't it. Neither is the way bird flu is being handled, and that isn't all there is to it, nor is saying that bugs mutate. A bug contemplating a bit of mutation isn't faced with an infinity of possibilities. I'm not flat amazed any more to see Americans explaining things away in terms of political polarisations and somehow mislaying the problem in the doing. One thing you're mislaying David is quite a lot of serious stuff that's been posted here about the why's and wherefore's of the bird flu epidemic. Like this report, for instance: I've mislayed nothing. I specifically said I was not addressing where it came from or how it might mutate. GRAIN, 2006, The top-down global response to bird flu, Against the grain, April 2006, http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=12 The report maintains that the solution being proposed - a complete shift to factory farming - merely brings us back to the source of the current bird flu crisis. GRAIN, 2006, Fowl play: The poultry industry's central role in the bird flu crisis. February 2006, http://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=194 Do you think it's because they've been listening to Rush Limbaugh and the conservative radio gang or to the liberal radio gang, if there is such a thing? Decide which is which, then you can stick a label on it and pretend it's not there. I didn't accuse D Mindock of spending time listening to talk radio, I only expressed my surprise that he would be in agreement with them about anything. I thought it amusing that one of our list members has recently brought all kinds of conspiracies to our attention. Among them I count the proposal that the US government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks and deliberately blew up three buildings, and the car that runs on water in violation of the laws of physics. Now he's telling us that the whole bird flu thing is a hoax, citing an article with text like: The entire bird flu scare is one of the most blatant hoaxes of recent times, and the popular media continues to reinforce the baseless story. You've been hearing about it for months and months now, and what's come of it? Next to nothing. Obviously if nothing has happened in months and months nothing is ever going to happen. Of course, if we apply the same kind of logic to global warning we're left concluding that there's no need to reduce CO2 emissions because next to nothing has come of it over the last few months. I think passages like this tell us about people whose brain processes have just about stopped, or who are deliberately trying to mislead us: Most of the people who have acquired this infection were bird handlers who were in continuous contact with these sick birds. Does anyone in their right mind envision similar circumstances in the **United States**?* I occasionally listen to talk radio while driving around to see what creative support they have for the neocons in power. I'd consider it funny except that a disturbing number of Americans seem to believe it wholesale. I distinctly recall Limbaugh saying something very like what I just quoted. But you're immune. I distinctly recall saying this, about spin in the US: You have to stop the spin. The trouble is it works so well most people aren't even aware of it, and if they are they think they're immune. Quite a few times, judging from all the 's in its tail. It's a sort of reality check when people talk about other people who disingenuously redirect the argument and so on. You can try it on me if you like. Everybody I know who is worried about the bird flu is not worried about the current strain of H5N1, they're worried about what happens when it mutates into a human transmissable virus. The passage I quoted above attempts to make people who disagree look stupid because Americans do not handle dead, infected, chickens the way those currently contracting H5N1 do. What it attempts to do is
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Dingel needs to get some open minded, no agenda except truth, scientists to examine his technology, once and for all. He's being too cautious secretive. Patience will run out with him. He could be someone who likes the limelight but has nothing real to offer. Anyway there are others who do have promising technology and are much more forthcoming than Dingel. Some have no aim to gain wealth for themselves or anyone else and have self-developed their technology. It is offered to all interested. Is it ready for prime time? I can't say. The info is scattered all over the web. I am not really set up to do experimentation. My knowledge of physics/math has faded. I do have a B.S. in Atmospheric Science but it was largely never used. Heck, my wife won't allow me to do the tried and true biodiesel chemistry in the garage, the only place I can do it. I need a place out in the boonies, not in suburbia. If interested in alt energy, google: Joe Cell (energy cell developed by Joe X of Australia. Joe is incognito because of threats) hydrino, (hydrogen whose electron has moved to a lower ground state than predicted by quantum mechanics(QM), which is different from the classical quantum mechanics (CQM) used by Blacklight to explain the existence of the hydrino whose electron can exist at 1/20th of QM's ground state orbit.) blacklight (Blacklight is a company developing products based on hydrinos) Tom Bearden (inventor, scientist) Robert Adams inventor for starters. As far as I can tell, Lutec, remember them?, has run into major hurdles and are stopped in their tracks. An inventor named Robert Adams from New Zealand has claimed that they infringed heavily on his patents, for one thing. Peace to all, D. Mindock P.S. Also see: http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/Nov62005/index210262005115.asp about the hydrino, the inventor Dr. Randy Mills, and his company called Blacklight Power. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Some feedback about my visit to Daniel Dingel http://2oo5.free.fr/dd/ Personnally, from what I was able to see, I'm sad to say that the car of Daniel DINGEL doesn't run on water. there is a big difference in the process of heating a liquid via ultrasonic energy input (NOTE ENERGY INPUT) and claiming to extract energy from nowhere. D. Mindock wrote: Dingel says he wants the money from his inventions to go directly to the people of the Phillipines. If he were a charlatan he would want the money for himself and then disappear with it. IMO, I think he's got something and I hope he finds a foundation, investor, etc., he trusts enough to get his technology tweaked mass produced. But the chances are slim at best. It is the same with other inventors like him. One exception, (there may be others?) from Rome, Georgia, stopped using the phrase over unity and was able to get his product which uses cavitation to heat up water, to market. He's now got a successful business going. But if he were using this to power cars, which he doesn't, I doubt if he would be in business. See: http://www.hydrodynamics.com/ Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water miki de mla wrote: I guess we just have to see the gadget to believe his claims... Be skeptical. Eyes can be deceived. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Chris, Dingel claims his car can use sea water, so no problem. I'd like to say that Dingel isn't worth the effort but can't since he just might have something. It'd be better to find other inventors that only want help to get their tech tweaked and to the masses and bypass Dingel. What the problem is that there are those that want the status quo and will stop those that have radical devices that will free people from dependence on Big Energy. Even our earth friendly home-brew biodiesel would be stopped if it ever reaches a threshold where it can't be tolerated. Big Oil has way too much power over governments. I wish Dingel well, but his tech might be just a parlor trick. We won't know for sure till it is checked by real scientists in an in-depth way. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: chris davidson To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Another issue concerning the Car Powered by Water: Even if the invention works as he claims it does, i don't think water is the answer for a fuel source for cars. Yeah, it has basically no pollution and all, but what would happen to the water supply when everbody and their mom wants to "fill up"? I think most of us know what a valuable resource water is, and the pressing concerns for its availability in the coming years. Irrigation for crops and feed crops already consumes approx 85%-90% of the industrial water usage of the water supply (40% of that comes from groundwater tables) -and a lot of that is lost to evaporation/transpiration. Just a thought...-Chris ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Be skeptical with a very open mind, the mind and eyes can all be deceived. Patent office closing due to lack of patents early last century. Ships at sea can only get to 28Knots, the stone wall effect limit until multi hulls came along and other variances. Now we get 80 + knots The sound barrier can't be broken. Saw a lawn mower running on oxygen, turned out to be acting similar to compressed air to run like a steam engine. No pollution from the engine though? Bit of a loss though as the oxygen had to be compressed as industrial oxygen into heavy bottles. The list goes on, me I try to figure and experiment to see what is possible when a new idea comes up. Be skeptical with an open mind and thought processing. There are many fronts in a scientific and industrial world that could never be broken that over time have. Be durned sure interesting to see a fair evaluation by an independent skeptic with an open mind. Doug. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water miki de mla wrote: I guess we just have to see the gadget to believe his claims... Be skeptical. Eyes can be deceived. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
aquafuel : 13 % water added to diesel or biodiesel: works in every diesel engine. i.e: http://www.aquazole.com/en/index.htm up to 75 % water in a pantone engine ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Pantone frantz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Michael Hayden
Has anyone else noticed the remarkable physical similarity between Genral Michael Hayden and Heinrich Himmler. Similar work histories too ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
hi Logan. PVmodules and solar concentrators are two different technologies and unfortunately, their individual energy capture principle is contradicting to each other. consequently, they can not be used at same application. PV modules need to absorb all the solar radiation so as to generate electricity through the module cells where as solar concentrators have to reflect all the solar radiation and direct it at a specific location (ie concentrated) for the purpose of heating a medium that can latter generate required energy. you therefore need to choose one for a specific application. however, when it comes to electricity the pv modules are good due to the fact that you can size them depending on your requirement starting with one module and increasing. concentrators for electricity is a large scale project - not so "modular". LuganoLogan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentratoror does it require a special PV module?Logan Vilas___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Michael Hayden
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. George SantayanaW obviously got a lot of D's in History. Note that Gen. Hayden has bachelor's and master's degrees in HISTORY.How about a coupla reference photos? Haydenhttp://www.nsa.gov/gallery/photo/photo1.jpgHimmlerhttp://existo.ru/img/beasteary/himmler.jpg On 5/12/06, Anthony Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else noticed the remarkable physical similarity between GenralMichael Hayden and Heinrich Himmler.Similar work histories too-- Peace,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Actually mirrors can be used to concentrate the light from a large area onto a small high efficiency solar cell. It is being done. This is one of the justifications for the cost of high efficiency cells but the extra cost of the concentrators and the lengths one has to go to to keep from overheating the PV module unfortunately outstrip the savings the idea hopes to offer. Too bad but on the other hand if you are just fortunate to have access to heterojunction cells on the cheap then maybe you should go for it! You will need a liquid cooled backing plate for the cells but if you are crafty you might be able to use the rejected heat somehow as well! Joe Lugano Wilson wrote: hi Logan. PV modules and solar concentrators are two different technologies and unfortunately, their individual energy capture principle is contradicting to each other. consequently, they can not be used at same application. PV modules need to absorb all the solar radiation so as to generate electricity through the module cells where as solar concentrators have to reflect all the solar radiation and direct it at a specific location (ie concentrated) for the purpose of heating a medium that can latter generate required energy. you therefore need to choose one for a specific application. however, when it comes to electricity the pv modules are good due to the fact that you can size them depending on your requirement starting with one module and increasing. concentrators for electricity is a large scale project - not so modular. Lugano */Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentrator or does it require a special PV module? Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=31132/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stephen Colbert: New American Hero
The sorta-official video from C-SPAN and Google: (Also Flash)http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-869183917758574879Also, you can go to http://thankyoustephencolbert.orgOn 5/11/06, Michael Gian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Yeah, I saw, but I get an access denied message.Looking for an open link. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]On Behalf Of Keith AddisonSent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:09 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Stephen Colbert: New American Hero Anyone who finds a link to video and/or audio of the original please postitfor us.Colberrr is well on his way to becoming this 21st century's H.L. Menken,whowas the 20th century's S.L. Clemens.All masters of irony, thus the phrase rapier wit.MichaelD. Mindock posted it:I watched the two parts of the video at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_alladdress=364x1062761Democratic Underground. Dubya is seriouslyroasted. Peace, D. MindockThis is utterly amazing. Stephen Colbert is one brave truth-telling guy! I LOVE IT!!! Hooray for Helen Thomas, as well. I hope youenjoy, too. Thanks, Ellen! Now I've got to go watch thevideo...laughing all the way, jeanniep.s. I REALLY REALLY recommend watching the video at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_alladdress=364x1062761Democratic Underground. Please note there are two links, one for each of two parts.jbRe-Improved Colbert transcript (now with complete text ofColbert-Thomas video!)BestKeithsnip -Original Message- From:[EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent:Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:49 PMTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Stephen Colbert: New American Hero http://www.alternet.org/story/36067/Stephen Colbert: New American HeroBy Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted May 9, 2006.When Colbert turned up the heat on Washington's elite, he revealed the big split between those basking in power and those fighting forchange.Virtually overnight, Stephen Colbert became a hero to countlessAmericans, following his April 30 performance at the White House Correspondents' Association dinner.Since then, millions of people have either watched the video or readthe transcript of his skewering of both the president and the presscorps, and have discussed it avidly. Tens of thousands of people have gone to the website ThankYouStephenColbert.com and written letters ofappreciation. Talk about water-cooler chatter; the event crashedinternet servers across the land. It truly was one of those moments of media shock and delight.And then, an odd but revealing thing happened. Some of the chatteringclass commentators, mainstream media writers and columnists, andDemocratic officials didn't get it: Not very funny, rude, not respectful of the president, and so on. Are they kidding? How couldthey not understand they were witnessing one of the bravest, mostsubversive performances in memory, which thrilled and gave hope to untold viewers and readers, and will be a huge marker when peoplelook back on the Bush era?Colbert's speech had a huge impact for two reasons: First, he spoketruth to power right to the face of the president, in front of the entire news media. No one could miss, sidestep or deny it. It wasn'ta scene from a movie, book or talk show -- it was live. It remindedme of Edward R. Murrow's famous address to the Radio and Television News Directors Association (recently depicted in the film Good Nightand Good Luck). It gave me goose bumps. Colbert's performance shamedevery Democrat or columnist who has been too afraid, too timid, or just too worried about losing his or her own power and access to goout on a limb and tell the truth that this administration is adisaster beyond our wildest nightmares. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rove have gotten away with murder Š and worse. And many of the people inthat room that night who squirmed in their seats -- it was in partbecause of the internal indictment they were feeling for not doing what they should have done, countless times, long before. Maybe nowthey will do the right thing, but I won't be holding my breath.The second reason Colbert made such a huge splash is the rapid advance of video on the web. Almost overnight, the media world hasirrevocably changed as video is increasingly becoming as important asprint and still images on the web. When, in a matter of hours, dozens of websites can post or link to a video and get the word out about aspectacular event, the role of the gatekeepers and the corporatemedia shrinks big-time. And it doesn't matter if the networks or CNN or Fox decides that they don't want you to see it -- they can't stopit. The people's network is now in working order. Progressives nowhave a television capacity; still rudimentary, perhaps, but powerfully effective.The press leaksThe press coverage of the Colbert performance was illuminating, asreported by the popular blog, democratic underground:Expect nothing
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
D. Mindock wrote: Bob, The inventor was quite adamant that over unity was being achieved in the early years of development. overunity implies (to me anyway) that you get more energy out than you put in. If that is the case, why isn't this guy a bazzillionare? why isn't he selling power all over the globe? I'll tell you why, 'cause it ain't so. I think he stopped using this phrase so as not to be seen as a whacko (all breakthrough inventors are seen as such). no, he stopped using it because he couldn't support the claim with real data. He was getting a lot of people interested but that was all. Anyway, some scientists have found temperatures being generated through cavitation to be off the charts. Something strange is going on. I don't see anything strange. I say a lecture on the subject of the use sonoluminesence in the 70's up put energy in, and you get work -light and heat. Everytime there is a a dramatic change in physics, there are always those that think it is blasphemy, for awhile. (Cold fusion is still under a dark cloud, but it refuses to go away. Wonder why?) because people want to believe that endless energy abounds just around the corner? Then as the science behind it becomes more widely accepted, there is a rapid change towards acceptance. Sonoluminescence is such a thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminesence yes, but there is nothing magical or which violates any physical laws involved here. Temperatures of over a million degrees K. have been found inside collapsing bubbles. Excerpt from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation Cavitating water purification devices have also been designed, in which the extreme conditions of cavitation can break down pollutants and organic molecules. Spectral analysis of light emitted in sonochemical reactions reveal chemical and plasma based mechanisms of energy transfer. The light emitted from cavitation bubbles is termed sonoluminesence. sonochemistry and sonoluminesence have been around for years, big deal Peace, D. Mindock P.S. Now the term bubble fusion is entering the lexicon of physics. along with N-rays, polywater, over-unity devices? - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water there is a big difference in the process of heating a liquid via ultrasonic energy input (NOTE ENERGY INPUT) and claiming to extract energy from nowhere. D. Mindock wrote: Dingel says he wants the money from his inventions to go directly to the people of the Phillipines. If he were a charlatan he would want the money for himself and then disappear with it. IMO, I think he's got something and I hope he finds a foundation, investor, etc., he trusts enough to get his technology tweaked mass produced. But the chances are slim at best. It is the same with other inventors like him. One exception, (there may be others?) from Rome, Georgia, stopped using the phrase over unity and was able to get his product which uses cavitation to heat up water, to market. He's now got a successful business going. But if he were using this to power cars, which he doesn't, I doubt if he would be in business. See: http://www.hydrodynamics.com/ Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water miki de mla wrote: I guess we just have to see the gadget to believe his claims... Be skeptical. Eyes can be deceived. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] A question about lye
You might have carbonated lye. Was it very chalky looking? Joe Scott Burton wrote: I’m attempting to produce my first test batch of bio-diesel. To keep things simple, I’m using fresh oil. I seem to be having a bit of trouble though. My NaOH lye isn’t dissolving fully in the methanol, and everything I’ve read says not to mix this with the oil until the lye is completely dissolved. Could I have bad lye? I would appreciate any suggestions. --Scott Burton Wellston, OK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Most of the highest efficiency PV cells do use concentrators. These are the 35% efficient super exotic ones that NREL and others are working on. Compared to 20% which is about the highest commercial single sun efficiency right now. In general the power produced by a PV cell is linearly related to the energy input. More sun = more power. So if you put 25 suns on it, you get 25 times the amount of power from the same cell (assuming you don't change the spectral composition of the l ight). It's not quite linear, so I think you actually get a tiny bit more power at higher concentrations than just the concentration ratio would imply -- say 28 instead of 25. The problem is that a typical crystalline silicon cell also decreased its power about 0.5% for each degree celsius the temperature goes up. So if you increase the operating temperature of the cell from 60C (typical for one sun) to 200C, you've just lost all the power you gained by putting more light on it Plus if you get too hot, you'll damage it -- usually the encapsulating material degrades well before the temperature at which the actual PV cell is damaged though. The other thing is that concentrators require tracking the sun usually (at least to achieve more than 2 or 3 times concentration. This introduces moving parts to the equation, and destroys one of the nice features of PV. If it's a big central power station where you can hire a full time maintenance operator, then go ahead. If for your own house, regular PV is cheap enough that the simplicity of not having moving parts will probably outweigh any advantage of trying to get more from the same amount of silicon. Zeke On 5/12/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually mirrors can be used to concentrate the light from a large area onto a small high efficiency solar cell. It is being done. This is one of the justifications for the cost of high efficiency cells but the extra cost of the concentrators and the lengths one has to go to to keep from overheating the PV module unfortunately outstrip the savings the idea hopes to offer. Too bad but on the other hand if you are just fortunate to have access to heterojunction cells on the cheap then maybe you should go for it! You will need a liquid cooled backing plate for the cells but if you are crafty you might be able to use the rejected heat somehow as well! Joe Lugano Wilson wrote: hi Logan. PV modules and solar concentrators are two different technologies and unfortunately, their individual energy capture principle is contradicting to each other. consequently, they can not be used at same application. PV modules need to absorb all the solar radiation so as to generate electricity through the module cells where as solar concentrators have to reflect all the solar radiation and direct it at a specific location (ie concentrated) for the purpose of heating a medium that can latter generate required energy. you therefore need to choose one for a specific application. however, when it comes to electricity the pv modules are good due to the fact that you can size them depending on your requirement starting with one module and increasing. concentrators for electricity is a large scale project - not so modular. Lugano */Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentrator or does it require a special PV module? Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=31132/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Concentrators (heliostats) use tracking technology. The only difference is the half angle mechanism usedin concentrators to reflect the light instead of keeping a surface normal to the Sun's rays.Once tracking technology becomes cost competitivewhen compared to simply adding more PV modules (approx. 30% increase in energy conversion with 2 axis tracker), the technology will be commonplace and in some places inseparable. It's a little early to say for sure, that PV will work better with concentrated light but, I sure hope the "writing on the wall" is correct....a biased opinion.US #6,897,423Self-powered intermittent moving light tracking device and method MikeLugano Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:hi Logan. PVmodules and solar concentrators are two different technologies and unfortunately, their individual energy capture principle is contradicting to each other. consequently, they can not be used at same application. PV modules need to absorb all the solar radiation so as to generate electricity through the module cells where as solar concentrators have to reflect all the solar radiation and direct it at a specific location (ie concentrated) for the purpose of heating a medium that can latter generate required energy. you therefore need to choose one for a specific application. however, when it comes to electricity the pv modules are good due to the fact that you can size them depending on your requirement starting with one module and increasing. concentrators for electricity is a large scale project - not so "modular". LuganoLogan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentratoror does it require a special PV module?Logan Vilas[snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Yes, you get get 30% more power from the same PV modules, but the space requirements for a tracker can actually be higher than for 30% more fixed PV. Fixed PV can be mounted on a building, often on a existing surface, thus essentially not taking up any room. A tracker (at least the current versions) require a large pole and room to turn. I've found that alot of people are okay with putting modules on their roof that isn't doing anything else anyway, but fewer want something in the backyard, or sticking up off the roof. Aesthetics are strange drivers (I know of one case in which the national park service didn't want a 2,000 sq foot PV array, because it would destroy the natural beauty, but apparently the 250 car parking lot and droning diesel generators didn't...).In higher density urban areas, finding the required volumes of space in which to mount trackers would be even harder, whereas every urban area has surfaces which receive sunlight. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Concentrators (heliostats) use tracking technology. The only difference is the half angle mechanism used in concentrators to reflect the light instead of keeping a surface normal to the Sun's rays. Once tracking technology becomes cost competitive when compared to simply adding more PV modules (approx. 30% increase in energy conversion with 2 axis tracker), the technology will be commonplace and in some places inseparable. It's a little early to say for sure, that PV will work better with concentrated light but, I sure hope the writing on the wall is correct. ...a biased opinion. US #6,897,423 Self-powered intermittent moving light tracking device and method Mike Lugano Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Logan. PV modules and solar concentrators are two different technologies and unfortunately, their individual energy capture principle is contradicting to each other. consequently, they can not be used at same application. PV modules need to absorb all the solar radiation so as to generate electricity through the module cells where as solar concentrators have to reflect all the solar radiation and direct it at a specific location (ie concentrated) for the purpose of heating a medium that can latter generate required energy. you therefore need to choose one for a specific application. however, when it comes to electricity the pv modules are good due to the fact that you can size them depending on your requirement starting with one module and increasing. concentrators for electricity is a large scale project - not so modular. Lugano Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentrator or does it require a special PV module? Logan Vilas [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Ray,Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - evenif he were the only candidate.However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeableby their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the "mainstream" media.Camejos campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtmlThe Democrats arent a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#DemsThe presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon.Ray in Atlanta GAD. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu HoaxBird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006[snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Bob, You have your mind set already to reject this. This guy is a successful inventor and businessman. Did you bother to read the wikipedia reference? I think not. You already know it, right? If you did you'd have seen that energies are created that are not readily explained. Things have changed from the 1970's, new discoveries are being made. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water D. Mindock wrote: Bob, The inventor was quite adamant that over unity was being achieved in the early years of development. overunity implies (to me anyway) that you get more energy out than you put in. If that is the case, why isn't this guy a bazzillionare? why isn't he selling power all over the globe? I'll tell you why, 'cause it ain't so. I think he stopped using this phrase so as not to be seen as a whacko (all breakthrough inventors are seen as such). no, he stopped using it because he couldn't support the claim with real data. He was getting a lot of people interested but that was all. Anyway, some scientists have found temperatures being generated through cavitation to be off the charts. Something strange is going on. I don't see anything strange. I say a lecture on the subject of the use sonoluminesence in the 70's up put energy in, and you get work -light and heat. Everytime there is a a dramatic change in physics, there are always those that think it is blasphemy, for awhile. (Cold fusion is still under a dark cloud, but it refuses to go away. Wonder why?) because people want to believe that endless energy abounds just around the corner? Then as the science behind it becomes more widely accepted, there is a rapid change towards acceptance. Sonoluminescence is such a thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminesence yes, but there is nothing magical or which violates any physical laws involved here. Temperatures of over a million degrees K. have been found inside collapsing bubbles. Excerpt from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation Cavitating water purification devices have also been designed, in which the extreme conditions of cavitation can break down pollutants and organic molecules. Spectral analysis of light emitted in sonochemical reactions reveal chemical and plasma based mechanisms of energy transfer. The light emitted from cavitation bubbles is termed sonoluminesence. sonochemistry and sonoluminesence have been around for years, big deal Peace, D. Mindock P.S. Now the term bubble fusion is entering the lexicon of physics. along with N-rays, polywater, over-unity devices? - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water there is a big difference in the process of heating a liquid via ultrasonic energy input (NOTE ENERGY INPUT) and claiming to extract energy from nowhere. D. Mindock wrote: Dingel says he wants the money from his inventions to go directly to the people of the Phillipines. If he were a charlatan he would want the money for himself and then disappear with it. IMO, I think he's got something and I hope he finds a foundation, investor, etc., he trusts enough to get his technology tweaked mass produced. But the chances are slim at best. It is the same with other inventors like him. One exception, (there may be others?) from Rome, Georgia, stopped using the phrase over unity and was able to get his product which uses cavitation to heat up water, to market. He's now got a successful business going. But if he were using this to power cars, which he doesn't, I doubt if he would be in business. See: http://www.hydrodynamics.com/ Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water miki de mla wrote: I guess we just have to see the gadget to believe his claims... Be skeptical. Eyes can be deceived. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Zeke, If you are talking about Democrats (note the use of capital D) like Congresswoman DeGette of Colorado, Hillary Clinton, Joe Liebermann, and others of this ilk then I would have to agree. Even Kerry leaves a lot to be desired. But if you are referring to Sen. Feinstein of Wisconsin, Congressman Kucinich of Ohio, the late Paul Wellstone, etc., then I must strongly disagree. The problem is that one label does not fit all. So making a blanket statement like you've made is irresponsible, imo. Peace, D. Mindock I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
Hi Zeke,Although "the space requirements for a tracker can actually be higher than30%more", it doesn't have to be.The "current versions" certainly do not need to be on a large pole (http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1487858.htm).With all due respect, you're comments (intentionally or not) confine the discussion to schemes that actually do take 30% more space (i.e.large, commonGimbal arrangements).As far as aesthetics are concerned, I agree that people in the US have a strange sense of what looks good on the landscape. As soon as the culture becomes more educated about energy and the environment, I hope that their sense of aesthetics will change too.Have you ever driven through a large housing development and notice the number of satellite dishes?MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, you get get 30% more power from the same PV modules, but thespace requirements for a tracker can actually be higher than for 30%more fixed PV. Fixed PV can be mounted on a building, often on aexisting surface, thus essentially not taking up any room. A tracker(at least the current versions) require a large pole and room to turn.I've found that alot of people are okay with putting modules on theirroof that isn't doing anything else anyway, but fewer want somethingin the backyard, or sticking up off the roof. Aesthetics are strangedrivers (I know of one case in which the national park service didn'twant a 2,000 sq foot PV array, because it would destroy the naturalbeauty, but apparently the 250 car parking lot and droning dieselgenerators didn't...). In higher density urban areas, finding therequired volumes of space in which to mount trackers would be evenharder, whereas every urban area has surfaces which receive sunlight.On 5/12/06, Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Concentrators (heliostats) use tracking technology. The only difference is the half angle mechanism used in concentrators to reflect the light instead of keeping a surface normal to the Sun's rays. Once tracking technology becomes cost competitive when compared to simply adding more PV modules (approx. 30% increase in energy conversion with 2 axis tracker), the technology will be commonplace and in some places inseparable. It's a little early to say for sure, that PV will work better with concentrated light but, I sure hope the "writing on the wall" is correct. ...a biased opinion. US #6,897,423 Self-powered intermittent moving light tracking device and method Mike Lugano Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: hi Logan. PV modules and solar concentrators are two different technologies and unfortunately, their individual energy capture principle is contradicting to each other. consequently, they can not be used at same application. PV modules need to absorb all the solar radiation so as to generate electricity through the module cells where as solar concentrators have to reflect all the solar radiation and direct it at a specific location (ie concentrated) for the purpose of heating a medium that can latter generate required energy. you therefore need to choose one for a specific application. however, when it comes to electricity the pv modules are good due to the fact that you can size them depending on your requirement starting with one module and increasing. concentrators for electricity is a large scale project - not so "modular". Lugano Logan Vilas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentrator or does it require a special PV module? Logan Vilas [snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
By now, you may have noticed my resistance to "conventional wisdom" whenever someone gives negative feedback about a particular energy scheme. Here is an example.The idea of concentrating light onto PV cells is a relatively new idea in some circles. What to do about waste heat is a natural progression in the discussion of such technology. But, why is it seen as such an obstacle - especially when schemes for harvesting waste heat are so abundant in energy related discussions?You wrote: "...regular PV is cheap enough that the simplicity of not havingmoving parts will probably outweigh any advantage of trying to get more from the same amount of silicon."The sweeping statements are getting old Zeke. Adding trackers become advantageous when you run out of roof. By the way PV that works on concentrated sunlight isn't so exotic and will probably become the PV of choice in a large percentage of applications.The largecost ofconcentrating PV is likely to be offset byan increase in power conversionrequiring the use of heliostats, tracking technology and those pesky moving parts.MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Most of the highest efficiency PV cells do use concentrators. Theseare the 35% efficient super exotic ones that NREL and others areworking on. Compared to 20% which is about the highest commercialsingle sun efficiency right now. In general the power produced by aPV cell is linearly related to the energy input. More sun = morepower. So if you put 25 suns on it, you get 25 times the amount ofpower from the same cell (assuming you don't change the spectralcomposition of the l ight). It's not quite linear, so I think youactually get a tiny bit more power at higher concentrations than justthe concentration ratio would imply -- say 28 instead of 25. Theproblem is that a typical crystalline silicon cell also decreased itspower about 0.5% for each degree celsius the temperature goes up. Soif you increase the operating temperature of the cell from 60C(typical for one sun) to 200C, you've just lost all the power yougained by putting more light on it Plus if you get too hot,you'll damage it -- usually the encapsulating material degrades wellbefore the temperature at which the actual PV cell is damaged though.The other thing is that concentrators require tracking the sun usually(at least to achieve more than 2 or 3 times concentration. Thisintroduces moving parts to the equation, and destroys one of the nicefeatures of PV. If it's a big central power station where you canhire a full time maintenance operator, then go ahead. If for your ownhouse, regular PV is cheap enough that the simplicity of not havingmoving parts will probably outweigh any advantage of trying to getmore from the same amount of silicon.ZekeOn 5/12/06, Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Actually mirrors can be used to concentrate the light from a large area onto a small high efficiency solar cell. It is being done. This is one of the justifications for the cost of high efficiency cells but the extra cost of the concentrators and the lengths one has to go to to keep from overheating the PV module unfortunately outstrip the savings the idea hopes to offer. Too bad but on the other hand if you are just fortunate to have access to heterojunction cells on the cheap then maybe you should go for it! You will need a liquid cooled backing plate for the cells but if you are crafty you might be able to use the rejected heat somehow as well! Joe Lugano Wilson wrote: hi Logan. PV modules and solar concentrators are two different technologies and unfortunately, their individual energy capture principle is contradicting to each other. consequently, they can not be used at same application. PV modules need to absorb all the solar radiation so as to generate electricity through the module cells where as solar concentrators have to reflect all the solar radiation and direct it at a specific location (ie concentrated) for the purpose of heating a medium that can latter generate required energy. you therefore need to choose one for a specific application. however, when it comes to electricity the pv modules are good due to the fact that you can size them depending on your requirement starting with one module and increasing. concentrators for electricity is a large scale project - not so "modular". Lugano */Logan Vilas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Would a standard PV module produce more when used with a Solar Concentrator or does it require a special PV module? Logan Vilas [snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Nobody since the '70's has broken the laws of physics as far as I know. There is always an explanation. Even those dudes that made light go faster than the speed of lightwell it IS the speed of light in a medium with a refractive index less than one, so no law was actually violated. New technologies can allow exploitation of those laws in different ways to be sure and there should always be a sense of optimism but I believe it is and always will be true that there is no free lunch. Joe D. Mindock wrote: Bob, You have your mind set already to reject this. This guy is a successful inventor and businessman. Did you bother to read the wikipedia reference? I think not. You already know it, right? If you did you'd have seen that energies are created that are not readily explained. Things have changed from the 1970's, new discoveries are being made. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water D. Mindock wrote: Bob, The inventor was quite adamant that over unity was being achieved in the early years of development. overunity implies (to me anyway) that you get more energy out than you put in. If that is the case, why isn't this guy a bazzillionare? why isn't he selling power all over the globe? I'll tell you why, 'cause it ain't so. I think he stopped using this phrase so as not to be seen as a whacko (all breakthrough inventors are seen as such). no, he stopped using it because he couldn't support the claim with real data. He was getting a lot of people interested but that was all. Anyway, some scientists have found temperatures being generated through cavitation to be off the charts. Something strange is going on. I don't see anything strange. I say a lecture on the subject of the use sonoluminesence in the 70's up put energy in, and you get work -light and heat. Everytime there is a a dramatic change in physics, there are always those that think it is blasphemy, for awhile. (Cold fusion is still under a dark cloud, but it refuses to go away. Wonder why?) because people want to believe that endless energy abounds just around the corner? Then as the science behind it becomes more widely accepted, there is a rapid change towards acceptance. Sonoluminescence is such a thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminesence yes, but there is nothing magical or which violates any physical laws involved here. Temperatures of over a million degrees K. have been found inside collapsing bubbles. Excerpt from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation Cavitating water purification devices have also been designed, in which the extreme conditions of cavitation can break down pollutants and organic molecules. Spectral analysis of light emitted in sonochemical reactions reveal chemical and plasma based mechanisms of energy transfer. The light emitted from cavitation bubbles is termed sonoluminesence. sonochemistry and sonoluminesence have been around for years, big deal Peace, D. Mindock P.S. Now the term bubble fusion is entering the lexicon of physics. along with N-rays, polywater, over-unity devices? - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water there is a big difference in the process of heating a liquid via ultrasonic energy input (NOTE ENERGY INPUT) and claiming to extract energy from nowhere. D. Mindock wrote: Dingel says he wants the money from his inventions to go directly to the people of the Phillipines. If he were a charlatan he would want the money for himself and then disappear with it. IMO, I think he's got something and I hope he finds a foundation, investor, etc., he trusts enough to get his technology tweaked mass produced. But the chances are slim at best. It is the same with other inventors like him. One exception, (there may be others?) from Rome, Georgia, stopped using the phrase over unity and was able to get his product which uses cavitation to heat up water, to market. He's now got a successful business going. But if he were using this to power cars, which he doesn't, I doubt if he would be in business. See: http://www.hydrodynamics.com/ Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water miki de mla wrote: I guess we just have to see the gadget to believe his claims... Be skeptical. Eyes can be deceived. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Hakan Falk wrote: Snip Where are the reasonable, sensible and knowledgeable Americans? Statistically it must at least be some of them. I think most of them moved to Canada in the '60s. LOL J ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Zeke, This is depressing, as I understand it, democrats are morons and republicans super scrub morons. Where are the reasonable, sensible and knowledgeable Americans? Statistically it must at least be some of them. On this list I think I detected several. Hakan At 16:29 12/05/2006, you wrote: I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
As I understand it, hardwoods when split with an axe will not necessarily 'go with the grain' of the wood, whereas softwoods (fir, hemlock, etc) will... Nice smooth splits, no splintering off to one side, which hardwoods can, but not always will... HTH Al - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: disinformation Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran
Kieth Sounds like the game of telephone: each person whispering into anothers ear and periodically telling what they heard; the morphing of messages from one to another CEO TO BLADn TO BUSH TAKES SO LONG BECAUSE the path is NOT LINEAL, the messages path are 3D and of course loopy, maybe even ribosomic and possibly sexual; GOOD luck. Irv * -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 10, 2006 3:58 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran Lots of people are commenting that Americans are waking up en masse. One view I get of it comes from what many American applicants to join the list tell listadmin. In the last year the numbers of applicants rose steadily overall, a considerably steeper rise than a year previously. The global distribution remains the same - very global! There were always a number of these people among the US contingent: Results of previous PIPA/Knowledge Networks poll [May 04]: - A 57% majority believed Iraq was either directly involved in carrying out the 9/11 attacks or had provided substantial support to al-Qaeda - 82% either said that experts mostly agree Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda or experts are evenly divided on the question - 45% believe that evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been found - 60% believe that just before the war Iraq either had weapons of mass destruction or a major program for developing them - 65% said most experts say Iraq did have them or that experts are divided on the question - estimates of the number of US troop fatalities in Iraq varied widely - 59% were unaware that the majority of world public opinion is opposed to the US war with Iraq - asked how many nuclear weapons the U.S. has, the median estimate was 200 (the actual number is 6,000) These beliefs are closely correlated with intentions to vote for Bush. They often give personal detail, but there tends to be a sameness of view. They'd often tell listadmin they were interested in biofuels because they didn't want to put their money in the pockets of terrorists. Over the last eight months it's been changing, there's a curve. It changed from terrorists to terrorist nations, and then to unstable Middle Eastern regimes. Muslims continued to be favourite unpopular people not to put your money in the pockets of (and worse). Around that time (post-Katrina) people also started mentioning environmental benefits as a possible by-product of using biofuels. Then the actual amount they didn't want to give to whoever it was started getting much more important as the gas price rose, but the environment got more important too, even unto climate change. Climate change slowly started changing into global warming, and everything got more intense as the gas price kept rising. The number of people who just wanted to (or had to) save money rose with it. Government started creeping up the unpopularity chart, though mostly only obliquely mentioned, and it hasn't made it to the bigtime yet. More recently, indepence from foreign oil shot right up, displacing unstable Middle Eastern regimes, which fell right down in unpopularity. Foreign oil is still right up there, but it was joined by Big Oil companies, and then by ExxonMobil, and then by ExxonMobil's retiring CEO with his $400 million gold watch. Just think of that: Osama bin Laden just morphed into the CEO of ExxonMobil. Ain't that something. Nobody has yet said they want to make biodiesel because they hate Iran. (But they have said that about Saudi Arabia.) Iraq comes into it occasionally but never the Iraqis, except maybe as being not worth investing more dead soldiers in. Oil and war are sometimes linked, especially more recently. What's all this off-topic political crap got to do with BIODIESEL? LOL! It's a list joke. That's what these folks used to say here, and some still do. Some who hate ExxonMobil's CEO still say that. They're moved by memes, as Godwin would say. Just because they think something new now doesn't mean they've worked anything much else out yet. It doesn't even mean they're aware they thought (felt) something different yesterday. Can you project the curve forward? Who is it they're going to end up wanting to make biodiesel so they don't have to put money in his pocket? An interesting glimpse. The only thing I'll bet on is that it won't be Osama bin Laden. By the way, I'm not being disparaging, I really don't like it when people sneer at sheeple. But when you're watching social movement it's the tide that counts, more than the drops of water. Of course in another way they're the only thing that matters. Something else that's to be seen in the same dataset is a different sort of pattern among responses from Americans who probably don't watch FauxTV.
Re: [Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost
Keith, You wrote: Our compost quite often goes up to the 70s or the mid-70s C (160-170 deg F), usually by the next day. That causes me no concern at all. I'm glad I didn't get this post yesterday. I don't think I would have gotten as much work done.Upon reading Tom Irwin's post I was worried about pasteurizing my heap. The earthy smell and the steam coming off that pile as I turned it was a thing to behold. To Tom Irwin: right or wrong about upper temps for compost piles, I appreciate your response. I got a great deal of work done that I'd been putting off. It gave me a great appetite for dinner and last night I slept like a baby. Keith asked: Have you read these? Basic texts on scientific composting by the man who invented it, in India 80 years ago. 1. An Agricultural Testament, Albert Howard 2. The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad, Oxford University Press, London, 1931 I have not. At a glance, they seem to have much stricter rules/guidelines than I tend to follow. I'm just carrying on a family tradition of making garden dirt. My grandfather had a wonderful pile of sifted dirt that he made himself and was supposed to be the secret to his gardening success. About 30 years ago I took a course called Soil Microbiology and was formally introduced to composting by a professor who loved gardening as much as he loved microbes. Composting was the culmination of a unit on the role of microbes in recycling matter. It was at that time that I came upon a simple layering design for making compost. Keith also asked: What are the economics of it for you Tom? How much did the phosphoric cost you, and how much of it did you buy? I bought a 15 gal drum (57 L) of phosphoric acid for $220 (US). It's expensive. If all one cares about is the economics, then the glycerine cocktail is essentially a waste product of the process and can be disposed of however conscience allows. I think it's roughly a break even proposition with me. The recovered methanol essentially pays for the phosphoric acid. I know that methanol can be recovered w/o splitting the glycerine mix, but you're still left with highly caustic glycerine/lye/soap to deal with There have been some comments about the feeling of filling the tank with a recent batch of homebrew. Putting the other products of the process to good use also feels good. I also have taken to adding a small amount of phosphoric acid (.20 ml/ L of processed WVO) to my first wash ... thanks again for the suggestion Todd. For me, this comes to about 18 ml/batch ( ~ 7 cents). It not only has reduced my washes from 4 to 3, but also makes the wash water from the first wash easier to dispose of. I now pour it at the base of shrubs around the edge of my property. Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost Hello Thomas and all, Temperatures above 65 C. are generally considerred to be limiting in that they tend to kill off large groups of microorganisms and slow down the composting process. I suggest turning the pile when temperatures get that high or you will pasturize the pile and need to regrow your biomass once the pile cools down. Large compost piles (usually in a curing/storage stage) have been known to catch on fire if permitted to dry out too much because they had not finished degrading bug edible material. Our compost quite often goes up to the 70s or the mid-70s C (160-170 deg F), usually by the next day. That causes me no concern at all. More often it's around the mid-60s though. It's not like making biodiesel, hotter than 65 C and you lose the methanol and it fails. What happens inside a compost pile is very complex, it's not that simple as that you kill off all the good guys when it gets too hot. I don't think it ever gets too hot. You certainly don't need to regrow anything afterwards. If you turn it, it happens all by itself and gets hot again, until it cools down again. You might not need to turn it, it depends how you make it and what it's made of. If you made it properly it won't run out of water at high temperatures and catch fire. When that happens (it's easy with chicken manure) it just loses steam and cools down again. More water and it heats up again. Once it's finally cooled down and everything has been through the process, it's ready to use. If you want to make sure, put some in a small pot and sow some cress seeds in it. If they germinate it's fully cooked with no VOAs or VFAs and you can use it straight away. I've never seen a compost pile that caught fire. I could be wrong but I think you'd have a hard time finding a gardener whose compost caught fire. Industrial composters use stuff like constant mechanical turning and air
Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News - micro ley farming
This is about using ley farming rotational grazing techniques on micro-farms. An overview so far. Ley farming is the lost half of organic growing. It was used alongside scientific composting in an integrated system developed by Friend Sykes, Newman Turner and others with Sir Albert Howard, as well as George Stapledon, in the 1930s to 50s. These were the pioneers of organic growing. Ley farming was based on previous work a hundred years ago by Robert Elliot of Clifton Park (The Clifton Park System of Farming, see the Small Farms Library at Journey to Forever). In the 60s, after the pioneers died, organic farming was shunted aside by the chemical interests and industrialised farming, and ley farming was forgotten. The most important texts on it are in our Small Farms Library, with more coming, and this has led to a recent revival in ley farming. Sow a piece of land with a good pasture mixture and then divide it in two with a fence. Graze one half heavily and repeatedly with cattle, mow the other half as necessary and leave the mowings there in place to decay back into the soil. On the grazed half, you've removed the crop (several times) and taken away a large yield of milk and beef. On the other half you've removed nothing. Plough up both halves and plant a grain crop, or any crop. Which half has the bigger and better yield? The grazed half, by far. Ley Farming explains why grass is the most important crop and how to manage grass leys. Leys are temporary pastures in a rotation, and provide more than enough fertility for the succeeding crops: working together, grass and grazing animals turn the land into a huge living compost pile. The rotating grassland produces dairy products and beef or mutton, and the effect of the cow manure on the grass and the soil builds up enough soil fertility to grow succeeding crops for three or four years. After usually three years the enriched grass turf is disced into the land to fertilise the grain and other crops to follow, three or four years later that field goes back under grass with cattle or sheep. It's a sustainable, largely self-sufficient organic system, with low input, high output and high quality produce. Here's more about it: http://snipurl.com/q4xq Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture Here's the ley farming section at the Small Farms Library: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley Small Farms Library - Ley Farming IMO ley farming is THE sustainable farming system, it's complete, and it's very flexible. List member Andres Yver, working at his new ley farm in Argentina, described it as the cheap and easy way of farming. I started working on this 23 years ago, and soon came to focus on small-farm applications. I said in my previous post in this occasional thread, About the best the small-scale folks can do is to follow the traditional Chinese-style farming methods of the East. It's basically gardening more than farming, they tend to each individual plant, there's no mass-production, production rates are very high and it's sustainable. It's one weakness perhaps is in gearing animals to the land. That's what we're doing here, integrated Chinese-style small-scale farming using organic methods and livestock grazing systems. It fits very well with our work with biofuels and energy, a model for sustainable food and fuel farms of the future. And: We have to deal with city farmers on one hand, gardeners basically, often with very little or no land, and on the other hand with farmers, who go about things in a quite different way, and there's not very much common ground between the two. Or rather there's a no-man's-land, at the peripheries of the cities and towns where rising land values break up the farms into small parcels awaiting development, where you find people like smallholders and homesteaders, or folks with 600 sq meters of land like us, or 300 sq yards of back garden like you Robert. Nobody pays any attention to these people but they grow a large amount of food, maybe as much as the city farmers do (15%+ of the world's supply). Gardening techniques don't always suit them very well and neither do farming techniques. For instance, try to find some half-useful information on how to grow wheat in a 20-metre raised bed. You can't even find a sowing rate that isn't geared to large fields and big machines, there's nothing that takes account of the extra care you can take with small areas. We're hoping to change that. That's here: http://snipurl.com/q4yh Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News But how do you fit a livestock grazing system for full-sized farms into a Chinese-style postage-stamp farm? The first question is the animals - do the grazing animals in a ley farming system have to be ruminants? From a previous discussion last August: I don't think it's confined to ruminants, I reckon grazing should be biodiverse, like the grasses are and the soil bugs. Maybe the more biodiverse
[Biofuel] biodiesel from algae in New Zealand
A commercial facility has produced the first biodiesel derived from wild sewage algae in New Zealand. Full article here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1ObjectID=10381404 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as stalinist? would that be a fitting label? - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us in many areas). And the biggest reason I see for failed systems is lack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but also anything that moves). Also, the number of new innovative PV systems that I have seen come on the market over the years, only to dissapear within another year... We're still basically doing the same thing as PV was in the 70's, with incremental improvements in efficiency and incremental cost decreases. I called the concrentrating PV exotic merely because I can't call up one of 200 some suppliers and buy one that meets all current electrical code, whereas I can with silicon PV modules. Maybe another breakthrough is coming, but in the mean time, alot of people will keep using coal generated power because they are waiting for those breakthroughs. I would rather see working PV systems going in today, even if they aren't all that high tech, rather than people thinking they have to wait before solar energy can work for them -- and in the mean time continuing to support coal and oil. It's not that I want to limit the new technology, but what I have seen is that the layperson holds out the possibility of a paradigm shift in the technology in the future as a reason to do absolutely nothing now. And if I recall, the original question was about concentrating sunlight on a normal old PV module -- which isn't the best idea -- they tried that at the carrizo solar plant in the early 80's, and a few years later, a whole lot of used Mud-lams (because the encapsulant turned varying shades of brown) flooded the market for off-grid use. I do admit that this list's members are not your average layperson, and most of us won't just use the news of new inventions as an excuse for procrastinating, so I apologize for that. Zeke On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By now, you may have noticed my resistance to conventional wisdom whenever someone gives negative feedback about a particular energy scheme. Here is an example. The idea of concentrating light onto PV cells is a relatively new idea in some circles. What to do about waste heat is a natural progression in the discussion of such technology. But, why is it seen as such an obstacle - especially when schemes for harvesting waste heat are so abundant in energy related discussions? You wrote: ...regular PV is cheap enough that the simplicity of not having moving parts will probably outweigh any advantage of trying to get more from the same amount of silicon. The sweeping statements are getting old Zeke. Adding trackers become advantageous when you run out of roof. By the way PV that works on concentrated sunlight isn't so exotic and will probably become the PV of choice in a large percentage of applications. The large cost of concentrating PV is likely to be offset by an increase in power conversion requiring the use of heliostats, tracking technology and those pesky moving parts. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of the highest efficiency PV cells do use concentrators. These are the 35% efficient super exotic ones that NREL and others are working on. Compared to 20% which is about the highest commercial single sun efficiency right now. In general the power produced by a PV cell is linearly related to the energy input. More sun = more power. So if you put 25 suns on it, you get 25 times the amount of power from the same cell (assuming you don't change the spectral composition of the l ight). It's not quite linear, so I think you actually get a tiny bit more power at higher concentrations than just the concentration ratio would imply -- say 28 instead of 25. The problem is that a typical crystalline silicon cell also decreased its power about 0.5% for each degree celsius the temperature goes up. So if you increase the operating temperature of the cell from 60C (typical for one sun) to 200C, you've just lost all the power you gained by putting more light on it Plus if you get too hot, you'll damage it -- usually the encapsulating material degrades well before the temperature at which the actual PV cell is damaged though. The other thing is that concentrators require tracking the sun usually (at least to achieve more than 2 or 3 times concentration. This introduces moving parts to the equation, and destroys one of the nice features of PV. If it's a big central power station where you can hire a full time maintenance operator, then go ahead. If for your own house, regular PV is cheap enough that the simplicity of not having moving parts will probably outweigh any advantage of trying to get more from the same amount of silicon. Zeke On 5/12/06, Joe Street wrote: Actually mirrors can be used to
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Only if they can use tax dollars to build gulags and assassinate with impunity.We're not their yet.MikeJason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as stalinist? would that be a fitting label?- Original Message - From: "Zeke Yewdall" To: Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:29 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu HoaxI would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the "mainstream" media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. MindockThe Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
[Biofuel] shockwaves, cavitation... and faster bio?
as one has seen over time, i save emails that i find interesting, and once in a while i get the brilliant flash to put some of the contained ideas together. the properties of cavitiation include: 1) agitation 2) heat 3) vaporization resulting in larger active surface area could we use these properties in a semi passive system of the aperture control scheme (defined in the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation ) that is commonly used today, and take advantage of these three properties to speed and enhance the BD process? granted there will still need to be an external heat source, a pump, and possibly a little vacuum, but these are already part of the well known process we enjoy today. any ideas? jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
I was referring to the Democratic party leadership -- stuff like going along with Bush on anything, kicking Paul Hackett out of the Ohio senate race, running people like Ken Salazar for senate in Colorado, not getting their members organized behind people like Feinstein to really oppose the Bush agenda, apoligizing for Colberts comments, etc. There are individual ones who I have alot of respect for -- some of the ones you mentioned, even Dean before he took over the Democratic party. There are even individual Republicans who I have liked (though none come to mind right now).But as a party, the Democrats most defining characteristic seems to be weak spinedness. Perhaps I am wrong that enough people in this country oppose Bush, and for the democrats to truely stand up and oppose him would cost them support. If so, we are really in a bad situation. But I think that there are enough people who don't agree with the bush agenda that if one of the political parties was to actually stand up and fight it full force, people would actually support them. It almost seems that right now, there is more press about the splits within the republicans and various congressional republicans taking Bush to task for stuff. Why aren't the Democrats as a whole jumping on this opportunity? It seems like they don't even support their member who are willing to take him on. On 5/12/06, D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke, If you are talking about Democrats (note the use of capital D) like Congresswoman DeGette of Colorado, Hillary Clinton, Joe Liebermann, and others of this ilk then I would have to agree. Even Kerry leaves a lot to be desired. But if you are referring to Sen. Feinstein of Wisconsin, Congressman Kucinich of Ohio, the late Paul Wellstone, etc., then I must strongly disagree. The problem is that one label does not fit all. So making a blanket statement like you've made is irresponsible, imo. Peace, D. Mindock I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Ah, interesting definition. I've never tried to split anything like oak or hickory or such, so I didn't even think that they might not split nicely. On 5/12/06, A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I understand it, hardwoods when split with an axe will not necessarily 'go with the grain' of the wood, whereas softwoods (fir, hemlock, etc) will... Nice smooth splits, no splintering off to one side, which hardwoods can, but not always will... HTH Al - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Mike, Gulags yes, but it is in Cuba of course and a bit warmer than Siberia, this philosophy to use non national soil is a step further. Assassinate, we do not really know, if we exclude Iraq of course. In Iraq it is FFA, except for the English who prosecute their military if they murder Iraqi civilians and they find out about it. Hakan At 23:22 12/05/2006, you wrote: Only if they can use tax dollars to build gulags and assassinate with impunity. We're not their yet. Mike Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as stalinist? would that be a fitting label? - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
hurm... isnt that what the US gov't is doing already? - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Only if they can use tax dollars to build gulags and assassinate with impunity. We're not their yet. Mike Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as stalinist? would that be a fitting label? - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
oak in fact does not split cleanly, and hickory is a real monster to split w/o a hydraulic ram splitter - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Ah, interesting definition. I've never tried to split anything like oak or hickory or such, so I didn't even think that they might not split nicely. On 5/12/06, A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I understand it, hardwoods when split with an axe will not necessarily 'go with the grain' of the wood, whereas softwoods (fir, hemlock, etc) will... Nice smooth splits, no splintering off to one side, which hardwoods can, but not always will... HTH Al - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50 times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel at the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is more then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of light on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I know it would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30% efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor, then the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were to get a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and maby with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power requirements alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over 150f in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As for a solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The setup to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can make their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I can get those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us in many areas). And the biggest reason I see for failed systems is lack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but also anything that moves). Also, the number of new innovative PV systems that I have seen come on the market over the years, only to dissapear within another year... We're still basically doing the same thing as PV was in the 70's, with incremental improvements in efficiency and incremental cost decreases. I called the concrentrating PV exotic merely because I can't call up one of 200 some suppliers and buy one that meets all current electrical code, whereas I can with silicon PV modules. Maybe another breakthrough is coming, but in the mean time, alot of people will keep using coal generated power because they are waiting for those breakthroughs. I would rather see working PV systems going in today, even if they aren't all that high tech, rather than people thinking they have to wait before solar energy can work for them -- and in the mean time continuing to support coal and oil. It's not that I want to limit the new technology, but what I have seen is that the layperson holds out the possibility of a paradigm shift in the technology in the future as a reason to do absolutely nothing now. And if I recall, the original question was about concentrating sunlight on a normal old PV module -- which isn't the best idea -- they tried that at the carrizo solar plant in the early 80's, and a few years later, a whole lot of used Mud-lams (because the encapsulant turned varying shades of brown) flooded the market for off-grid use. I do admit that this list's members are not your average layperson, and most of us won't just use the news of new inventions as an excuse for procrastinating, so I apologize for that. Zeke On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By now, you may have noticed my resistance to conventional wisdom whenever someone gives negative feedback about a particular energy scheme. Here is an example. The idea of concentrating light onto PV cells is a relatively new idea in some circles. What to do about waste heat is a natural progression in the discussion of such technology. But, why is it seen as such an obstacle - especially when schemes for harvesting waste heat are so abundant in energy related discussions? You wrote: ...regular PV is cheap enough that the simplicity of not having moving parts will probably outweigh any advantage of trying to get more from the same amount of silicon. The sweeping statements are getting old Zeke. Adding trackers become advantageous when you run out of roof. By the way PV that works on concentrated sunlight isn't so exotic and will probably become the PV of choice in a large percentage of applications. The large cost of concentrating PV is likely to be offset by an increase in power conversion requiring the use of heliostats, tracking technology and those pesky moving parts. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of the highest efficiency PV cells do use concentrators. These are the 35% efficient super exotic ones that NREL and others are working on. Compared to 20% which is about the highest commercial single sun efficiency right
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Someone asked: "i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as Stalinist? would that be a fitting label?" If I understood the question correctly, it was (tongue-in-cheek) about using the label "Stalinist" on Democrats. Of course, I could be mistaken. In any event, I have no idea how Cuba entered the conversation. You wrote: "...this philosophy to use non national soil is a step further." I don't understand what you are trying to say. I'm guessing you are referring to Russia using Cuba to extend it's expansionist agenda. If true, I'm not sure where it fits into the conversation. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, Gulags yes, but it is in Cuba of course and a bit warmer than Siberia, this philosophy to use non national soil is a step further. Assassinate, we do not really know, if we exclude Iraq of course. In Iraq it is FFA, except for the English who prosecute their military if they murder Iraqi civilians and they find out about it. Hakan At 23:22 12/05/2006, you wrote: Only if they can use tax dollars to build gulags and assassinate with impunity. We're not their yet. Mike Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as stalinist? would that be a fitting label? - Original Message - From: "Zeke Yewdall" To: Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the "mainstream" media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
I would REALLY like to see the results of such a test. Good luck!! Mike logan vilas wrote: I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50 times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel at the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is more then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of light on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I know it would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30% efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor, then the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were to get a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and maby with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power requirements alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over 150f in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As for a solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The setup to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can make their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I can get those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it. Logan Vilas - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us in many areas). And the biggest reason I see for failed systems is lack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but also anything that moves). Also, the number of new innovative PV systems that I have seen come on the market over the years, only to dissapear within another year... We're still basically doing the same thing as PV was in the 70's, with incremental improvements in efficiency and incremental cost decreases. I called the concrentrating PV exotic merely because I can't call up one of 200 some suppliers and buy one that meets all current electrical code, whereas I can with silicon PV modules. Maybe another breakthrough is coming, but in the mean time, alot of people will keep using coal generated power because they are waiting for those breakthroughs. I would rather see working PV systems going in today, even if they aren't all that high tech, rather than people thinking they have to wait before solar energy can work for them -- and in the mean time continuing to support coal and oil. It's not that I want to limit the new technology, but what I have seen is that the layperson holds out the possibility of a paradigm shift in the technology in the future as a reason to do absolutely nothing now. And if I recall, the original question was about concentrating sunlight on a normal old PV module -- which isn't the best idea -- they tried that at the carrizo solar plant in the early 80's, and a few years later, a whole lot of used Mud-lams (because the encapsulant turned varying shades of brown) flooded the market for off-grid use. I do admit that this list's members are not your average layperson, and most of us won't just use the news of new inventions as an excuse for procrastinating, so I apologize for that. Zeke On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By now, you may have noticed my resistance to conventional wisdom whenever someone gives negative feedback about a particular energy scheme. Here is an example. The idea of concentrating light onto PV cells is a relatively new idea in some circles. What to do about waste heat is a natural progression in the discussion of such technology. But, why is it seen as such an obstacle - especially when schemes for harvesting waste heat are so abundant in energy related discussions? You wrote: ...regular PV is cheap enough that the simplicity of not having moving parts will probably outweigh any advantage of trying to get more from the same amount of silicon. The sweeping statements are getting old Zeke. Adding trackers become advantageous when you run out of roof. By the way PV that works on concentrated sunlight isn't so exotic and will probably become the PV of choice in a large percentage of applications. The large cost of concentrating PV is likely to be offset by an increase in power conversion requiring the use of heliostats, tracking technology and those pesky moving parts. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most of the highest efficiency PV cells do use concentrators. These are the 35% efficient super exotic
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Oh crap!! You're right. ...my bad. Mike Jason Katie wrote: hurm... isnt that what the US gov't is doing already? - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Only if they can use tax dollars to build gulags and assassinate with impunity. We're not their yet. Mike Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as stalinist? would that be a fitting label? - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through your ISP, all of it, is to be maintained for at least a year thanks to a proposal by US Congresswoman DeGette (D-CO). Yes, she calls herself a Democrat. We need to write our Congress reps that this BS won't fly with us. It is wrong that the NSA and the Pentagon are spying on us. BushCo is a fear based, secretive, devisive, newspeak government that is totally controlled by corporate powers. I think this is the definition of a fascist regime. No wonder the world is becoming terrified of our goverment. Bush and Dead-Eye Dick appear to be out-of-control. Work for Peace, D. Mindock The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax Bird FluA plan to quarantine sick airline and ship passengers in order to combat a potential bird flu outbreak has outraged health experts, airlines, and civil libertarians. *Three-Day Quarantine* Sick passengers would be identified by flight attendants, pilots and cruise ship crews. Passengers identified as sick could be detained in quarantine for as long as three days. *Detailed Information* The proposed rules would also require airlines to collect detailed contact information from their passengers, including the names of any traveling companions and precise information regarding travel plans. The information would be stored for at least two months, and would be provided to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) at any time the government asked for it. USA Today April 25, 2006 [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator PV Modules
On May 12, 2006, at 1:59 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:.. the biggest reason I see for failed systems islack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but alsoanything that moves).I've got my well pump on three 50W modules, fixed.It's totally maintenance-free. I don't think I'll usetrackers for the main house power either. If you havepoles, there's usually azimuth and elevation bracketsthat can be adjusted at any time. You set them foryour latitude first -- if you want to adjust themseasonally or daily, it's easy. If not, it works fine inthe original position. Good for us lazy types :-)-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
2nd run dropped down to 6% ffa. The 1st run separated beautifully with base transesterification. The 2nd run solidified to soap. I'm going to do a 3rd run reusing the catalyst. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Tan Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:53 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst I tried to make the stuff from cotton without the Nitrogen. I did the pyrolysis and the sulfonation for half the time. I guess I was too impatient. I tested it with WVO with 12% FFA. After treatment, the FFA content went down to only 5%. To make sure that it wasn't the leftover acid that was doing the job, I'm doing another run, using the same sample I made. Then I will try to transesterify both runs. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:48 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Hi Chris The way I see it, this new catalyst isn't environment friendly at all. So much energy is needed to pyrolyse sugar at 400 degrees centigrade for 15 hours. On top of that, you need to heat it at 150 degrees with 200mL of concentrated sulfuric acid for another 15 hours. Then you need to wash it to remove the acid. So then where will the acid wash water go? Down the drain? Not to mention the fumes produced during the whole process. Yes. Hot concentrated sulphuric acid lacks appeal. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A question about lye
Joe, Thanks for the reply! Having never had anything near pure lye before, I'm not quite sure if it's carbonated, but upon taking a closer look at a second sample from the original package, I think perhaps it is carbonated. It does look a bit like a chalk. :-( That's the last of that lye I'm buying... I've a pound of fresh lye coming, this time KOH. I guess I'll have to wait for that to arrive. Cordially, Scott Burton Wellston, OK USA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:17 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A question about lye You might have carbonated lye. Was it very chalky looking? Joe Scott Burton wrote: I’m attempting to produce my first test batch of bio-diesel. To keep things simple, I’m using fresh oil. I seem to be having a bit of trouble though. My NaOH lye isn’t dissolving fully in the methanol, and everything I’ve read says not to mix this with the oil until the lye is completely dissolved. Could I have bad lye? I would appreciate any suggestions. --Scott Burton Wellston, OK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A question about lye
Keith, First, thank you for taking the time to reply. Journeytoforever.org is where I've done a lot of my reading. Which is why I'm starting with fresh oil. Because that's how it was reported there that I should begin. I bought the lye at a hardware store, the container was still sealed, and it's proports to be pure Sodium Hydroxide. It's very small granules, so it's kind of hard to tell, but I suspect from closer examination that it may have already been carbonated before I got it. :-( After about 45 minutes around 80% of it dissolved. I was swirling it every few minutes, for at least a minute each time. For a total of 12 times swirling it. I started by measuring 220 ml of HEET (yellow bottle, methyl alcohol, not isopropyl) into a class mason jar, then quickly weighed out the lye and added it to the HEET. Just as I believe everything I have read said to do. I have a pound of KOH lye coming, but I'm not sure exactly how soon it will be here. I might just have to wait for it to arrive since I appear to have unusable NaOH... Cordially, Scott Burton Wellston, OK -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 1:16 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A question about lye Hello Scott I'm attempting to produce my first test batch of bio-diesel. To keep things simple, I'm using fresh oil. Yes, but that's also where you should start to get it right. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Follow the instructions, step by step, adding variables one by one, use the quality checks before you move on. I seem to be having a bit of trouble though. My NaOH lye isn't dissolving fully in the methanol, and everything I've read says not to mix this with the oil until the lye is completely dissolved. Could I have bad lye? It will dissolve in the methanol even if it's not good methanol, so it must be bad lye. What is it and where did you get it? What does it look like? How long did it take not to dissolve? How did you mix it? Mix it this way: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#methmix KOH is better anyway, especially for novices. Lots of info on lye if you go to the start here and keep going, everything you need to know. HTH. Keith I would appreciate any suggestions. --Scott Burton Wellston, OK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Actually, you were heading in the right direction, Zeke. All conifers are technically softwoods, period. Softwoods are distinguished from other plants by their reproduction method. All softwoods are cone bearing. Hardwoods are flower bearing. As a general rule of thumb, if it's a broadleaf or also very roughly, if it's deciduous, it's probably a hardwood (don't be fooled though, there are many exceptions in both camps - for example here in New Zealand most of the indigenous hardwoods, except for one are evergreen and on the other side, Larches and some cypresses, both conifers, are deciduous) The term softwood, though has little bearing on the hardness of the wood, though in general, they are softer than hardwoods. Again, exceptions abound. Balsa is a hardwood, Yew which is harder than most hardwoods is a softwood. Confused yet? Having said that all of the trees you mentioned are hardwoods and therefore fine for producing lye. Now, I'm not an expert on making lye from wood ashes but veside the JtF info, I did find this on the net regarding softwood vs hardwood ashes for soapmaking: http://www.endtimesreport.com/making_lye.html Soft wood ashes yield a lye that will only produce soft soap. Hardwood ash lye will make harder soap for bars, and the best ash of all is from seaweed, such as kelp. Kelp ash lye produces an extremely hard, durable soap. I can't quite reconcile that with the info on JtF because this might suggest that hardwood ash would contain more NaOH than softwood - which for soap making would be far better, but maybe lye from softwood ash would be better for biofuel production? Maybe someone else can clarify this. I would imagine that most of the lye making techniques from the past using wood ashes had soap making as a goal. Maybe softwoods just don't produce as much lye? or not just the type of lye affects the hardness of soap? I'm beyond my realm of knowledge at this point, so more questions than answers. In any case, your source would be fine. Steve On Saturday 13 May 2006 01:57 am, Zeke Yewdall wrote: Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
If you can use grey water or salt water there would not be a problem. If the water used has to be clean drinkable water there is a problem. Terry Dyck From: chris davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 09:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Another issue concerning the Car Powered by Water: Even if the invention works as he claims it does, i don't think water is the answer for a fuel source for cars. Yeah, it has basically no pollution and all, but what would happen to the water supply when everbody and their mom wants to fill up? I think most of us know what a valuable resource water is, and the pressing concerns for its availability in the coming years. Irrigation for crops and feed crops already consumes approx 85%-90% of the industrial water usage of the water supply (40% of that comes from groundwater tables) -and a lot of that is lost to evaporation/transpiration. Just a thought... -Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Microchipping babies
This was sent through from another list http://www.arcticbeacon.com/11-May-2006.html Mary Lynn Schmidt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Report on the successful usage of a PVC Venturi In making Biodiesel
Hello all, Several months ago I asked if anyone had ever used the Venturi in making Biodiesel. No one replied so I guess no one read the post or they had not. Well I have put one into operation in my processor and have had great success with it on my first 100 liter acid base reaction. (not my first acid base). Please allow me to give you all the basics and some of the benefits that can be accomplished very simply and cheaply. The Venturi is an example of Bernoulli's law in practice. It allows a pump to circulate a fluid while creating a vacume that pulls gases or liquids into the flowing stream being pumped. The mixing rate of Ozone into water is 99% complete. What does this mean for us? well we can bring Methanol, Acid, Methoxil, inert gas, and the top layer into that stream of WVO coming off the bottom of the processor. It is mixed at a rate that is greatly more efficient than that accomplished by a pump alone. You can meter the rate at which the fluid is injected to maximize the oil that is subjected to the injected fluid. The best part is the flow rate of the pump is not impacted to a great extent - you can pump all the oil through it in about (20% reduction depending on the design of the venturi) the same time as you would without the venturi. But the advantage is the fluid being mixed is being mixed most efficiently. Here is how I use it in my system. 1) Inject methanol and mix (I plug the port to a short tube that pulls in the top 1 of oil back through the venturi after the methanol is in the processor) 2) Inject Acid. then same as # 1, this keeps the air from being injected. 3) Inject Methoxil. same deal again. 5) Reclaim the methanol using the vacume of the venturi, to pull the hot methanol gas through a chiller ( I use an argon gas purge to keep air out of the closed system) 6) Starting a new batch I can now Heat the Glycerin from the last batch - boil the Methanol out and inject it into the cold oil instantly mixing and this also heats the oil with the energy used in the reclamation process. This requires bench marking the oil level and then adding any deficiencies by way of procedure if the amount reclaimed does not meet the full amount. Below you will find three links, there are hundreds. I included the one just so you can see how cheap and easy these are to get - I did not include it for promotion reasons it was just one of many. The others discuss some other great over the top usages for the technical geeks Please be advised that I am a beginner with Biodiesel, I date back only to June of 05, .So.. the above is only for information as I want the true experts to examine and determine if I missed something or have I gone horribly wrong. One last thing, I would like to testify that the acid base method on JtF WORKS and it works well, That said you will never get it to work unless you start at the beginning, Keith is not kidding - get to know the oil. http://www.ce.utexas.edu/prof/kinnas/319LAB/Applets/Venturi/venturi.html http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/venturi_flowmeter.cfm http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/7963/cid/2341 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Hi Zeke, I must say that I agree with all you've said. After I sent out my irresponsible message, I felt like I may have misread you. And I did, so I am glad that I did sorry too if I bugged you. I should have known better. Argh! Yeah, we need the Democrats and moderate, i.e. true, Republicans too that are sick of BushCo's lavish spending, etc., to both work together to tame the monster that's demolishing the USA from the WH. Bush and Cheney are not Republicans but are radicals with a scary agenda. Bush/Cheney are not even Americans but corporate creatures with corporate values which means no morals, no sense of helping the citizenry improve their lives. They just want to do, and are doing, anything they can to increase corporate power and wealth. It is a house of cards they're building. You're correct in that there is a large number of people who'd like to be rid of Bush and Cheney. This is largely untapped source that can help usher out the two idiots in the WH via impeachment. Does anyone know why the Democrats are remaining largely silent at this crucial time? Are they afraid of attacks from the Bush propaganda machine? Is the TV media afraid of letting uppity Democrats, like Feinstein, on their pundit shows? Peace, D. Mindock I was referring to the Democratic party leadership -- stuff like going along with Bush on anything, kicking Paul Hackett out of the Ohio senate race, running people like Ken Salazar for senate in Colorado, not getting their members organized behind people like Feinstein to really oppose the Bush agenda, apoligizing for Colberts comments, etc. There are individual ones who I have alot of respect for -- some of the ones you mentioned, even Dean before he took over the Democratic party. There are even individual Republicans who I have liked (though none come to mind right now).But as a party, the Democrats most defining characteristic seems to be weak spinedness. Perhaps I am wrong that enough people in this country oppose Bush, and for the democrats to truely stand up and oppose him would cost them support. If so, we are really in a bad situation. But I think that there are enough people who don't agree with the bush agenda that if one of the political parties was to actually stand up and fight it full force, people would actually support them. It almost seems that right now, there is more press about the splits within the republicans and various congressional republicans taking Bush to task for stuff. Why aren't the Democrats as a whole jumping on this opportunity? It seems like they don't even support their member who are willing to take him on. On 5/12/06, D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke, If you are talking about Democrats (note the use of capital D) like Congresswoman DeGette of Colorado, Hillary Clinton, Joe Liebermann, and others of this ilk then I would have to agree. Even Kerry leaves a lot to be desired. But if you are referring to Sen. Feinstein of Wisconsin, Congressman Kucinich of Ohio, the late Paul Wellstone, etc., then I must strongly disagree. The problem is that one label does not fit all. So making a blanket statement like you've made is irresponsible, imo. Peace, D. Mindock I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Hmmm, I don't think we have much to worry about from a car that breaks natural laws... but if we did and we all converted to the rascals and they did work - what would all that water vapor do in the atmosphere? more rain? I think the fueling stations should be down stream of the waste water treatment plants that discharge water into the river for the next town to enjoy. Ok now what happens when all the coal is converted to Electricity to convert water to hydrogen for fill stations for fuel cells and they all produce H2O into the air as a vapor - will that mean muggy for Arizona? Any chance that the coal smoke combining with the water vapor would make acid rain? I think I like Vodka better than water. (but negawatts is better yet) Sorry but I just don't buy the whole idea of this car and somthing for nothing. Chris makes a good point and I like to see people thinking into the what happens when zone before grasping at something for nothing. Ghandi said it all when he said Live simply so that others may simply live My best, Jim Terry Dyck wrote: If you can use grey water or salt water there would not be a problem. If the water used has to be clean drinkable water there is a problem. Terry Dyck From: chris davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 09:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Another issue concerning the Car Powered by Water: Even if the invention works as he claims it does, i don't think water is the answer for a fuel source for cars. Yeah, it has basically no pollution and all, but what would happen to the water supply when everbody and their mom wants to fill up? I think most of us know what a valuable resource water is, and the pressing concerns for its availability in the coming years. Irrigation for crops and feed crops already consumes approx 85%-90% of the industrial water usage of the water supply (40% of that comes from groundwater tables) -and a lot of that is lost to evaporation/transpiration. Just a thought... -Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Hello D., I like what you said and I would like to interject my thoughts on this below, D. Mindock wrote: Hi Zeke, I must say that I agree with all you've said. After I sent out my irresponsible message, I felt like I may have misread you. And I did, so I am glad that I did sorry too if I bugged you. I should have known better. Argh! Yeah, we need the Democrats and moderate, i.e. true, Republicans I feel that as long as the party system is alive and well we will continue to have this kind of leadership, we need a way to elect responsible leaders that is not driven by hype, money and retoric, Sorry but I don't have the wisdom to offer up what vehicle that may be. too that are sick of BushCo's lavish spending, etc., to both work together to tame the monster that's demolishing the USA from the WH. Bush and Cheney are not Republicans but are radicals with a scary agenda. Bush/Cheney are not even Americans but corporate creatures with corporate values which means no morals, no sense of helping the citizenry improve their lives. They just want to do, and are doing, anything they can to increase corporate power and wealth. It is a house of cards they're building. You're correct in that there is a large number of people who'd like to be rid of Bush and Cheney. Not enough though, and when we implode the fall will be great. This is largely untapped source that can help usher out the two idiots in the WH via impeachment. Does anyone know why the Democrats are remaining largely silent at this crucial time? Why bother, You will see Americans elect record numbers of Democrats in the elections this fall they don't need to do anything. If they do the fickle public may turn on them so why not ride the tide. Are they afraid of attacks from the Bush propaganda machine? Is the TV media afraid of letting uppity Democrats, like Feinstein, on their pundit shows? Peace, D. Mindock Well anyway luck Jim I was referring to the Democratic party leadership -- stuff like going along with Bush on anything, kicking Paul Hackett out of the Ohio senate race, running people like Ken Salazar for senate in Colorado, not getting their members organized behind people like Feinstein to really oppose the Bush agenda, apoligizing for Colberts comments, etc. There are individual ones who I have alot of respect for -- some of the ones you mentioned, even Dean before he took over the Democratic party. There are even individual Republicans who I have liked (though none come to mind right now).But as a party, the Democrats most defining characteristic seems to be weak spinedness. Perhaps I am wrong that enough people in this country oppose Bush, and for the democrats to truely stand up and oppose him would cost them support. If so, we are really in a bad situation. But I think that there are enough people who don't agree with the bush agenda that if one of the political parties was to actually stand up and fight it full force, people would actually support them. It almost seems that right now, there is more press about the splits within the republicans and various congressional republicans taking Bush to task for stuff. Why aren't the Democrats as a whole jumping on this opportunity? It seems like they don't even support their member who are willing to take him on. On 5/12/06, D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke, If you are talking about Democrats (note the use of capital D) like Congresswoman DeGette of Colorado, Hillary Clinton, Joe Liebermann, and others of this ilk then I would have to agree. Even Kerry leaves a lot to be desired. But if you are referring to Sen. Feinstein of Wisconsin, Congressman Kucinich of Ohio, the late Paul Wellstone, etc., then I must strongly disagree. The problem is that one label does not fit all. So making a blanket statement like you've made is irresponsible, imo. Peace, D. Mindock I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA [EMAIL
Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax
Mike, You mentioned Gulags and if I am not wrong, US have something very similar or worse in Gutanamo. It is also now clear that people got kidnapped by US and sent to secret jails or other nations for questioning. The principle and use are roughly the same as the Gulags. Yes, the democrats are not using Stalinist methods, but Bush is doing his best. You are right, the democrats are not there yet, it is the republicans. I assume that they are using the tax dollars for it also. Stalin hijacked the communist idea and built an apparatus to spy and control the citizens. Stalin's USSR had little to do with Lenin's communist ideas. Today we know that there were links between Lenin and the financial powers in Europe and US. Lenin in his French exile was financially supported and it was corporate powers who worked on a regime change and democracy in Russia. Stalin was probably a dark horse in this and an uneducated leader, who was unsuitable to lead Russia into the industrial revolution. He was a product of a backlash and an unwanted surprise. The pattern for Lenin, follows the pattern that later brought AH to power in Germany. He also built Gulags/Gutanamos to control the people. AH clearly had corporate support and western ideas. This were the big historical dictators, helped and supported by corporations. Then we have numerous small examples in Europe, Far East, Africa and South America and the current backlash against them. History take 100 years to write and it not until now, that we start to get perspective on what happened in the period before the Russian revolution and WWI. Hakan At 00:12 13/05/2006, you wrote: Someone asked: i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as Stalinist? would that be a fitting label?If I understood the question correctly, it was (tongue-in-cheek) about using the label Stalinist on Democrats. Of course, I could be mistaken. In any event, I have no idea how Cuba entered the conversation. You wrote: ...this philosophy to use non national soil is a step further. I don't understand what you are trying to say. I'm guessing you are referring to Russia using Cuba to extend it's expansionist agenda. If true, I'm not sure where it fits into the conversation. Mike Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, Gulags yes, but it is in Cuba of course and a bit warmer than Siberia, this philosophy to use non national soil is a step further. Assassinate, we do not really know, if we exclude Iraq of course. In Iraq it is FFA, except for the English who prosecute their military if they murder Iraqi civilians and they find out about it. Hakan At 23:22 12/05/2006, you wrote: Only if they can use tax dollars to build gulags and assassinate with impunity. We're not their yet. Mike Jason Katie mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i believe someone referred to the socialist/communist farce in the USSR as stalinist? would that be a fitting label? - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax I would say agree that the democrats are not very good socialists -- morons would be the best description I can think of for them. On 5/12/06, Michael Redler wrote: Ray, Democrats make piss-poor socialists and to imply that that they are, is an insult to socialists. If Teddy Kennedy ran in a true socialist election, I doubt that he would get a single vote - even if he were the only candidate. However, there are candidates who run as members of the socialist party. They are clearly noticeable by their intelligent and articulate responses to the issues, their concern for the working class, and virtual invisibility in the mainstream media. Camejo's campaign gives the right answers http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtmlhttp://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/470/470_04_Camejo.shtml The Democrats aren't a solution http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Demshttp://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/461/461_04_OtherLetters.shtml#Dems The presidential campaigns of Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtmlhttp://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/514/514_08_Debs.shtml Mike Ray in Atlanta GA wrote: Unfortunately, both the socialists, whoops Democrats, and the fascists, excuse me, I mean Republicans, are all busy breaking their necks to jump on Shrub's band wagon. Ray in Atlanta GA D. Mindock wrote: This seems to be inline with the idea of a police state. Collect all the info on citizens possible to be stored in a huge database. The cuckoo bird flu scare (a hoax) is to get us to accept that anyone can be detained for silly reasons along with the database of your airline flights. When they say the data is to be maintained for at least two months, you can believe it will be much longer than that. Just like your online traffic through
