Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides

2011-01-22 Thread Keith Addison
USDA:
Blackbirds, Red-Winged - killed, intentional: 965,889
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/prog_data/2009_prog_data/PDR_G_FY09/Basic_Tables_PDR_G/Table_G_FY2009_Short.pdf

And the rest...

>http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2011/0120/Bye-Bye-Blackbird-USDA-acknowledges-a-hand-in-one-mass-bird-death
>
>Bye Bye Blackbird: USDA acknowledges a hand in one mass bird death
>
>One in a series of mysterious mass bird deaths in the past month was
>the product of a USDA avicide program, which began as operation Bye
>Bye Blackbird in the 1960s.
>
>By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer / January 20, 2011
>
>Atlanta
>
>It's not the "aflockalyptic" fallout from a secret US weapon lab as
>some have theorized. But the government acknowledged Thursday that it
>had a hand in one of a string of mysterious mass bird deaths that
>have spooked residents in Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama, South Dakota,
>and Kentucky in the last month.
>
>The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) took
>responsibility for hundreds of dead starlings that were found on the
>ground and frozen in trees in a Yankton, S.D., park on Monday.
>
>The USDA's Wildlife Services Program, which contracts with farmers
>for bird control, said it used an avicide poison called DRC-1339 to
>cull a roost of 5,000 birds that were defecating on a farmer's cattle
>feed across the state line in Nebraska. But officials said the agency
>had nothing to do with large and dense recent bird kills in Arkansas
>and Louisiana.
>
>Nevertheless, the USDA's role in the South Dakota bird deaths puts a
>focus on a little-known government bird-control program that began in
>the 1960s under the name of Bye Bye Blackbird, which eventually
>became part of the USDA and was housed in the late '60s at a NASA
>facility. In 2009, USDA agents euthanized more than 4 million
>red-winged blackbirds, starlings, cowbirds, and grackles, primarily
>using pesticides that the government says are not harmful to pets or
>humans.
>
>In addition to the USDA program, a so-called depredation order from
>the US Fish and Wildlife Service allows blackbirds, grackles, and
>starlings to be killed by anyone who says they pose health risks or
>cause economic damage. Though a permit is needed in some instances,
>the order is largely intended to cut through red tape for farmers,
>who often employ private contractors to kill the birds and do not
>need to report their bird culls to any authority.
>
>"Every winter, there's massive and purposeful kills of these
>blackbirds," says Greg Butcher, the bird conservation director at the
>National Audubon Society. "These guys are professionals, and they
>don't want to advertise their work. They like to work fast,
>efficiently, and out of sight."
>
>Bird kills turning too zealous?
>
>The depredation order, however, is under review for its impact on the
>rare rusty blackbird, which roosts with more common species.
>Ornithologists also suspect that the mass killings may be a factor in
>declining populations of those species in the US.
>
>While the USDA keeps tabs on the number of birds the program
>euthanizes, the total death toll isn't known because private
>contractors operating under the depredation order aren't required to
>keep count in the case of blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, and
>starlings.
>
>"My biggest concern is we don't know how many birds are being killed,
>and we don't have a sense of how at risk the rusty blackbird is
>because of depredation events in their range," says Mr. Butcher.
>
>Yankton animal control officer Lisa Brasel told KTIV-TV that she
>first believed a cold snap had killed some 200 European starlings
>that were found dead in Riverside Park, reminding some residents of
>the final scenes of Alfred Hitchcock's thriller, "The Birds."
>
>But then she said she received a call from a USDA official who said
>the agency had poisoned a roost of starlings 10 miles south of
>Yankton. Usually such poisonings result in flocks falling directly
>out of their tree roosts. But in this case, the birds traveled a fair
>distance before falling. "They were surprised they came to Yankton
>like they did and died in our park," said Brasel, according to
>KTIV-TV.
>
>How birds plague farmers
>
>Carol Bannerman, a Wildlife Services spokeswoman, said such kills are
>carried out at the request of farmers who can prove the birds are a
>nuisance. The farmers also help pay the cost, according to the agency.
>
>One example of nuisance birds are European starlings, a non-native
>species, at US dairies, where a flock of 5,000 can eat 200 pounds of
>feed a day while soiling equipment and dairy cows.
>
>"It's not that we have anything against starlings, but our charge is
>to help protect agriculture ... and protect property and human health
>or safety," she says. "And the fact is, in a lot of rural settings,
>people say, 'It's just birds, what's the problem?' "
>
>Ms. Bannerman added, however, that the agency takes care to notify
>local public-health and law-enforcement ag

Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides

2011-01-22 Thread Keith Addison
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2011/0120/Bye-Bye-Blackbird-USDA-acknowledges-a-hand-in-one-mass-bird-death

Bye Bye Blackbird: USDA acknowledges a hand in one mass bird death

One in a series of mysterious mass bird deaths in the past month was 
the product of a USDA avicide program, which began as operation Bye 
Bye Blackbird in the 1960s.

By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer / January 20, 2011

Atlanta

It's not the "aflockalyptic" fallout from a secret US weapon lab as 
some have theorized. But the government acknowledged Thursday that it 
had a hand in one of a string of mysterious mass bird deaths that 
have spooked residents in Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama, South Dakota, 
and Kentucky in the last month.

The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) took 
responsibility for hundreds of dead starlings that were found on the 
ground and frozen in trees in a Yankton, S.D., park on Monday.

The USDA's Wildlife Services Program, which contracts with farmers 
for bird control, said it used an avicide poison called DRC-1339 to 
cull a roost of 5,000 birds that were defecating on a farmer's cattle 
feed across the state line in Nebraska. But officials said the agency 
had nothing to do with large and dense recent bird kills in Arkansas 
and Louisiana.

Nevertheless, the USDA's role in the South Dakota bird deaths puts a 
focus on a little-known government bird-control program that began in 
the 1960s under the name of Bye Bye Blackbird, which eventually 
became part of the USDA and was housed in the late '60s at a NASA 
facility. In 2009, USDA agents euthanized more than 4 million 
red-winged blackbirds, starlings, cowbirds, and grackles, primarily 
using pesticides that the government says are not harmful to pets or 
humans.

In addition to the USDA program, a so-called depredation order from 
the US Fish and Wildlife Service allows blackbirds, grackles, and 
starlings to be killed by anyone who says they pose health risks or 
cause economic damage. Though a permit is needed in some instances, 
the order is largely intended to cut through red tape for farmers, 
who often employ private contractors to kill the birds and do not 
need to report their bird culls to any authority.

"Every winter, there's massive and purposeful kills of these 
blackbirds," says Greg Butcher, the bird conservation director at the 
National Audubon Society. "These guys are professionals, and they 
don't want to advertise their work. They like to work fast, 
efficiently, and out of sight."

Bird kills turning too zealous?

The depredation order, however, is under review for its impact on the 
rare rusty blackbird, which roosts with more common species. 
Ornithologists also suspect that the mass killings may be a factor in 
declining populations of those species in the US.

While the USDA keeps tabs on the number of birds the program 
euthanizes, the total death toll isn't known because private 
contractors operating under the depredation order aren't required to 
keep count in the case of blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, and 
starlings.

"My biggest concern is we don't know how many birds are being killed, 
and we don't have a sense of how at risk the rusty blackbird is 
because of depredation events in their range," says Mr. Butcher.

Yankton animal control officer Lisa Brasel told KTIV-TV that she 
first believed a cold snap had killed some 200 European starlings 
that were found dead in Riverside Park, reminding some residents of 
the final scenes of Alfred Hitchcock's thriller, "The Birds."

But then she said she received a call from a USDA official who said 
the agency had poisoned a roost of starlings 10 miles south of 
Yankton. Usually such poisonings result in flocks falling directly 
out of their tree roosts. But in this case, the birds traveled a fair 
distance before falling. "They were surprised they came to Yankton 
like they did and died in our park," said Brasel, according to 
KTIV-TV.

How birds plague farmers

Carol Bannerman, a Wildlife Services spokeswoman, said such kills are 
carried out at the request of farmers who can prove the birds are a 
nuisance. The farmers also help pay the cost, according to the agency.

One example of nuisance birds are European starlings, a non-native 
species, at US dairies, where a flock of 5,000 can eat 200 pounds of 
feed a day while soiling equipment and dairy cows.

"It's not that we have anything against starlings, but our charge is 
to help protect agriculture ... and protect property and human health 
or safety," she says. "And the fact is, in a lot of rural settings, 
people say, 'It's just birds, what's the problem?' "

Ms. Bannerman added, however, that the agency takes care to notify 
local public-health and law-enforcement agencies before a scheduled 
kill, and noted "what went on in Louisiana and Arkansas, that was 
totally outside of what we're doing. We're quite concerned that 
people not connect those."

Two mass bird deaths in north Alabama this week are bein

Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides

2011-01-08 Thread Keith Addison
A nice study in educated derision, Dawie.

Starting, I suppose, with the notion that a place "such as San 
Francisco" could be considered a local community. No doubt there are 
many functional local communities within it, but the thing itself is 
a city. Parr probably puts it correctly when he talks of policies - 
when cities look at policies they don't see the same thing as local 
communities see.

I share your scepticism of economies-of-scale - just a doctrine 
indeed, and in whose bible? IMHO when economies of scale become 
operative, it's too big to serve anybody's best interests except the 
corporations' - not mom-and-poppable. Eg:

"Small family and part-time farms are at least as efficient as larger 
commercial operations. There is evidence of diseconomies of scale as 
farm size increases." -- "Are Large Farms More Efficient?" Professor 
Willis L. Peterson, University of Minnesota, 1997. Download (Acrobat 
file, 52kb):
http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/13411/1/p97-02.pdf

Colin Tudge also says that. So does the IAASTD report (International 
Assessment of Agricultural Knowledge, Science and Technology for 
Development). So do lots of people, including me.

Small farms
http://journeytoforever.org/farm.html

I also happen to think that birds, like just about everything else 
that really matters, are more important than corporate profits.

All best

Keith


>'Bird-safe glass is also being developed for use in tall buildings.
>
>'"Bird-safe building glass is no longer a pie-in-the-sky dream." said
>Parr. "Its reality is on the horizon - we are close. The
>manufacturers are working with the scientists; they're working with
>us. And local communities are getting into the act as well, with more
>and more cities - such as San Francisco - looking at policies that
>implement bird-friendly construction,"'
>
>Bird-safe glass indeed! Another engineered intrusion of mass-production into
>building construction, a field that has long proved resistant to it 
>despite all
>the prevalent theories (Fuller's Dymaxion house came to naught because the
>doctrine of economies of scale is subject to more qualifications than has
>generally been understood - qualifications the recognition of which raises
>questions about the desirability of the effects of economies of scale). How
>would "bird-safe" glass work? Would it use differences between birds' and
>humans' light perception in some way? Somehow I'd expect corporations to love
>the idea of "bird-safe" glass being indistinguishable from common clear float
>glass by the naked eye, as enforcement of legislation in that regard would set
>up yet another corporate-friendly burden-of-proof regime.
>
>I would suspect that birds fly into window panes mainly in a small number of
>situations. The glass is too transparent, especially in the sense of 
>their being
>too few glazing bars; or the glass is too reflective, forming a mirror that
>reflects open sky until it's too late for the bird to react; or the 
>glass is in
>a place where it ought not to be, e.g. a quarter-mile up in the air. 
>Small-pane
>windows make sense because the plant required to make small panes is 
>more easily
>accessible to a smaller operation. Likewise clear float/drawn/spun glass makes
>sense because there are centuries of small-scale craft behind it: it's
>mom-and-poppable. And I'd say the tallest building (excepting specialized
>tower-structures) that can be effectively managed by the members of 
>a household
>is about four or five storeys. By happy coincidence all this is also 
>much better
>for birds.
>
>Far better for birds - and humans - to cease to be subject to that 
>extraordinary
>situation in which it makes economic sense for large corporations to 
>erect tall,
>shiny, crystalline buildings. Bird-safe glass, forsooth!
>
>'New wind technology is in the works for a turbine which would pose
>much less risk to birds than the design implemented in wind farms
>today.
>
>'Called an "airborne wind turbine", the idea is to do away with the
>tower of a traditional wind turbine and instead use a helium-filled
>blimp which would enable the device to be raised much higher than is
>currently possible in order to capture the increased wind energy of
>higher altitudes. Because its height, the device could emit a
>bird-deterring sound too loud for use in lower turbines.'
>
>*sigh*
>
>I wonder how birds fare with traditional Dutch-style windmills, or even modern
>turbines in the 6-odd-metre size range. I'd think the lower operating speed of
>the former would offer some advantage in this regard.
>
>Regards
>
>Dawie Coetzee
>
>
>
>

Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides

2011-01-08 Thread Dawie Coetzee
'Bird-safe glass is also being developed for use in tall buildings.

'"Bird-safe building glass is no longer a pie-in-the-sky dream." said 
Parr. "Its reality is on the horizon - we are close. The 
manufacturers are working with the scientists; they're working with 
us. And local communities are getting into the act as well, with more 
and more cities - such as San Francisco - looking at policies that 
implement bird-friendly construction,"'

Bird-safe glass indeed! Another engineered intrusion of mass-production into 
building construction, a field that has long proved resistant to it despite all 
the prevalent theories (Fuller's Dymaxion house came to naught because the 
doctrine of economies of scale is subject to more qualifications than has 
generally been understood - qualifications the recognition of which raises 
questions about the desirability of the effects of economies of scale). How 
would "bird-safe" glass work? Would it use differences between birds' and 
humans' light perception in some way? Somehow I'd expect corporations to love 
the idea of "bird-safe" glass being indistinguishable from common clear float 
glass by the naked eye, as enforcement of legislation in that regard would set 
up yet another corporate-friendly burden-of-proof regime.

I would suspect that birds fly into window panes mainly in a small number of 
situations. The glass is too transparent, especially in the sense of their 
being 
too few glazing bars; or the glass is too reflective, forming a mirror that 
reflects open sky until it's too late for the bird to react; or the glass is in 
a place where it ought not to be, e.g. a quarter-mile up in the air. Small-pane 
windows make sense because the plant required to make small panes is more 
easily 
accessible to a smaller operation. Likewise clear float/drawn/spun glass makes 
sense because there are centuries of small-scale craft behind it: it's 
mom-and-poppable. And I'd say the tallest building (excepting specialized 
tower-structures) that can be effectively managed by the members of a household 
is about four or five storeys. By happy coincidence all this is also much 
better 
for birds.

Far better for birds - and humans - to cease to be subject to that 
extraordinary 
situation in which it makes economic sense for large corporations to erect 
tall, 
shiny, crystalline buildings. Bird-safe glass, forsooth!

'New wind technology is in the works for a turbine which would pose 
much less risk to birds than the design implemented in wind farms 
today.

'Called an "airborne wind turbine", the idea is to do away with the 
tower of a traditional wind turbine and instead use a helium-filled 
blimp which would enable the device to be raised much higher than is 
currently possible in order to capture the increased wind energy of 
higher altitudes. Because its height, the device could emit a 
bird-deterring sound too loud for use in lower turbines.'

*sigh*

I wonder how birds fare with traditional Dutch-style windmills, or even modern 
turbines in the 6-odd-metre size range. I'd think the lower operating speed of 
the former would offer some advantage in this regard.

Regards

Dawie Coetzee





________
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Fri, 7 January, 2011 22:23:17
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides

http://news.mongabay.com/2011/0106-morgan_bird_kills.html

"End of Days" bird kill just a fraction of real death toll

By Morgan Erickson-Davis, mongabay.com
January 07, 2011

The sudden en-masse deaths of thousands of birds in the Southern U.S. 
on the night of New Year's Eve have created a frenzy of media 
attention, but in reality hardly compare to the massive number that 
die each year because of human activity.

Shortly after midnight on January 1st, thousands of red-winged 
blackbirds fell from the sky in Beebe, Arkansas. Some were outright 
dead, others mortally wounded, all were found to have suffered severe 
injury through blunt-force trauma. While there has been speculation 
around a number of hypotheses including a climate change-driven 
weather phenomenon and even a fluctuation in the earth's magnetism, 
as usual the most obvious solution is the most likely: fireworks set 
off by people celebrating the holiday flushed the birds into the air 
where, unable to see, they collided with houses, trees, and each 
other.

However, these deaths represent just a fraction of the true impact 
humans have on birdlife.

"There are many human-related causes of bird mortality including 
buildings, outdoor cats, pesticides, communication towers, 
automobiles, wind farms, and lead poisoning from spent ammunition and 
lost fishing tackle." said American Bird Conservancy Vice President, 
Mike Parr. "But because most of t

Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides

2011-01-07 Thread Keith Addison
http://news.mongabay.com/2011/0106-morgan_bird_kills.html

"End of Days" bird kill just a fraction of real death toll

By Morgan Erickson-Davis, mongabay.com
January 07, 2011

The sudden en-masse deaths of thousands of birds in the Southern U.S. 
on the night of New Year's Eve have created a frenzy of media 
attention, but in reality hardly compare to the massive number that 
die each year because of human activity.

Shortly after midnight on January 1st, thousands of red-winged 
blackbirds fell from the sky in Beebe, Arkansas. Some were outright 
dead, others mortally wounded, all were found to have suffered severe 
injury through blunt-force trauma. While there has been speculation 
around a number of hypotheses including a climate change-driven 
weather phenomenon and even a fluctuation in the earth's magnetism, 
as usual the most obvious solution is the most likely: fireworks set 
off by people celebrating the holiday flushed the birds into the air 
where, unable to see, they collided with houses, trees, and each 
other.

However, these deaths represent just a fraction of the true impact 
humans have on birdlife.

"There are many human-related causes of bird mortality including 
buildings, outdoor cats, pesticides, communication towers, 
automobiles, wind farms, and lead poisoning from spent ammunition and 
lost fishing tackle." said American Bird Conservancy Vice President, 
Mike Parr. "But because most of the deaths from those sources often 
occur in ones or twos, they often go unnoticed or unreported."

In total, says Parr, studies have estimated that up to one billion 
birds may be killed annually due to collisions with buildings. 
Another billion fall prey to domestic cats. Up to 50 million birds 
are killed each year after hitting communications towers, and 
pesticide poisoning has been linked to the deaths of up to 15 million 
birds each year.

In addition to all these hazards, the increasing presence of wind 
turbines is a threat to many birds, especially when they're built in 
the path of migration routes.

"When you look at the totality of human-caused threats to birds, it 
has got to give cause for serious concern about our cumulative 
effects on their populations," Parr said.

Strides have been taken in the development, implementation, and 
promotion of bird-safe technology. For instance, the prohibition or 
restriction of many pesticides most toxic to birds, such as 
carbofuran, fenthion, and ethyl parathion, has reduced bird mortality 
by as much as 75 percent.

Bird-safe glass is also being developed for use in tall buildings.

"Bird-safe building glass is no longer a pie-in-the-sky dream." said 
Parr. "Its reality is on the horizon - we are close. The 
manufacturers are working with the scientists; they're working with 
us. And local communities are getting into the act as well, with more 
and more cities - such as San Francisco - looking at policies that 
implement bird-friendly construction,"

New wind technology is in the works for a turbine which would pose 
much less risk to birds than the design implemented in wind farms 
today.

Called an "airborne wind turbine", the idea is to do away with the 
tower of a traditional wind turbine and instead use a helium-filled 
blimp which would enable the device to be raised much higher than is 
currently possible in order to capture the increased wind energy of 
higher altitudes. Because its height, the device could emit a 
bird-deterring sound too loud for use in lower turbines.

However, while airborne wind turbines are on the horizon, today's 
turbines are killing hundreds of thousands of birds every year. The 
Department of the Interior is currently considering imposing 
operational guidelines on wind farms which would lessen their risk to 
birds. Parr believes those guidelines should be mandatory.

"Voluntary guidelines don't work." he said. "We wouldn't expect 
people to abide by voluntary drinking and driving limits. We can't 
expect the wind industry to follow voluntary environmental guidelines 
either."


>... Not to mention this:
>
>http://www.alternet.org/story/149440/%27aflockalypse%27%3A_here%27s_why_we_should_really_be_concerned_about_the_huge_bird_and_fish_die-off?page=entire
>
>AlterNet / By Tara Lohan
>
>'Aflockalypse': Here's Why We Should Really Be Concerned About the
>Huge Bird and Fish Die-off
>
>The massive death toll of dead birds and sea life should draw
>attention to the countless other species on the brink of extinction.
>
>January 7, 2011
>
>By now, we've all seen the news reports of the "Aflockalypse." The
>New Year came in with a bang in Beebe, Arkansas when thousands of
>blackbirds fell from the sky. As news reports of the eerie incident
>spread, similar stories began surfacing all over the world: Massive
>fish kills by the thousands in Brazil, New Zealand, the Arkansas
>River and the Chesapeake; more bird deaths in Louisiana, Kentucky and
>Sweden; and tens of thousands of dead crabs (aptly named dead devil
>crab

Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides

2011-01-07 Thread Keith Addison
... Not to mention this:

http://www.alternet.org/story/149440/%27aflockalypse%27%3A_here%27s_why_we_should_really_be_concerned_about_the_huge_bird_and_fish_die-off?page=entire

AlterNet / By Tara Lohan

'Aflockalypse': Here's Why We Should Really Be Concerned About the 
Huge Bird and Fish Die-off

The massive death toll of dead birds and sea life should draw 
attention to the countless other species on the brink of extinction.

January 7, 2011

By now, we've all seen the news reports of the "Aflockalypse." The 
New Year came in with a bang in Beebe, Arkansas when thousands of 
blackbirds fell from the sky. As news reports of the eerie incident 
spread, similar stories began surfacing all over the world: Massive 
fish kills by the thousands in Brazil, New Zealand, the Arkansas 
River and the Chesapeake; more bird deaths in Louisiana, Kentucky and 
Sweden; and tens of thousands of dead crabs (aptly named dead devil 
crabs) washing ashore in the U.K.

2011 seems to have gotten off to an ominous start, but so far no one 
credible has come up with a theory to link all these occurrences 
together. They appear to be mostly isolated catastrophes. Sadly, this 
kind of stuff happens a fair bit, and in our uber-connected world, 
it's getting easier and easier to share when they do. Although I do 
admit that some of the purported explanations thus far sound kind of 
far-fetched. The 100 or so dead jackdaws in Sweden were explained by 
a veterinarian to a local news outlet: "Our main theory is that the 
birds were scared away because of the fireworks and landed on the 
road, but couldn't fly away from the stress and were hit by a car."

One car? Really? I can't imagine being the driver who kills 100 birds 
simultaneously. But the other incidents, perhaps, have better 
explanations that are largely due to either weather (cold snap) or 
environmental factors (fireworks, lightening, disease). As for 
Britain's crabs -- well, it turns out that this is the third year in 
a row it has happened, which may or may not be comforting, depending 
on how you look at things.

The only upside to these die-offs has been the rapt attention of 
readers, which is great; however, no offense to jackdaws and dead 
devil crabs, but there are a whole lot of other species on the brink 
that could use the publicity.

For starters, the World Wide Fund for Nature (also known in the U.S. 
as the World Wildlife Fund) just released its top 10 list of 
endangered species: the tiger, polar bear, Pacific walrus, Magellanic 
penguin, leatherback turtle, Atlantic bluefin tuna, mountain gorilla, 
monarch butterfly, Javan rhino and the giant panda are the unlucky 
finalists. While one night of fireworks revelry may have offed a few 
thousands birds this year, the creatures on WWF's list are teetering 
on the edge of extinction thanks to decades, and in some cases 
centuries, of hard work by humans.

Loss of habitat and poaching may claim our remaining 3,200 wild 
tigers, 720 mountain gorillas and 60 Javan rhinos. Polar bears, 
Pacific walruses and Magellanic penguins are losing out to climate 
change. We're doing in leatherback turtles, which have managed to 
survive on this earth for 100 million years, thanks to overfishing 
(they're often killed as bycatch), and their habitat is endangered by 
rising sea levels and temperatures. Bluefin look like they will be 
eaten into extinction in the form of sushi. Treehugger reported that, 
"A single bluefin tuna just sold at auction for a new record price of 
32.49 million yen in Tokyo. That's nearly $400,000 for a single 
fish," which means there is a pretty big monetary incentive for 
fishing them until they are wiped off the planet. Monarch butterflies 
and giant pandas can hang on only so long as we can protect their 
vital habitat.

And these 10 are only the tip of the iceberg. A recent infographic on 
Mother Nature Network reveals that in the last 500 years, 900 species 
of plants and animals have gone extinct and 10,000 more are close to 
making that list. We've done the most damage, however, in the last 
100 years. Biologically rich Ecuador has the most to lose, with 2,211 
endangered species, but the U.S. is a close second (1,203 endangered 
species).

Honeybees aren't officially designated as endangered, but the 
population of these essential pollinators is falling thanks to 
"colony collapse disorder." A recent leaked EPA memo implicates the 
pesticide clothianidin as a contributor to honeybee die-offs, 
although sadly the EPA has yet to curb the chemical's use in the U.S.

Bumblebees aren't faring much better, as a recent report concludes 
that four common species in the U.S. have declined by a startling 97 
percent. "According to the Center for Ecology and Hydrology in the 
UK, three of the 25 British species of bumblebee are already extinct 
and half of the remainder have shown serious declines, often up to 70 
percent, since around the 1970s," writes Sami Grover for Treehugger. 
Without these polli

Re: [Biofuel] Help put a ban on nicotinoid pesticides

2011-01-07 Thread Keith Addison
Good on you Joe.

There's also this (hotlinks in the online version):



WikiLeaks Uncovers Government Bee Killing Conspiracy

by Stephanie Feldstein

December 16, 2010

While the WikiLeaks media frenzy may have been focused on the release 
of tens of thousands of classified military and U.S. State Department 
documents, it's a leaked Environmental Protection Agency document 
that has conservationists, environmentalists and beekeepers abuzz.

The November 2nd memo, leaked to a Colorado beekeeper, indicates that 
the EPA was well-aware that the pesticide Clothianidin (a 
neonicotinoid) posed some serious risks to honey bees. There have 
been concerns about this chemical from as far back as 2003, and it's 
already been banned in Germany, France, Italy and Slovenia because of 
its toxicity. But the EPA chose to sweep all that under the rug to 
keep the pesticide on the market.

Clothianidin, marketed as "Poncho" by Bayer, is widely used on corn, 
as well as canola, soy, sugar beets, sunflowers and wheat. As if the 
$262 million cash crop from last year wasn't enough, Bayer wants to 
keep expanding the pesticide's use. And the company's original 
registration was based on some seriously flawed science: they 
evaluated the wrong crop, with the wrong controls to assess the 
impact on bees.

This all adds up to some serious questions about the government 
contributing to Colony Collapse Disorder as they knowingly allowed 
Bayer to poison bees. And this is about a lot more than honey 
production ... native habitats, and as much as one-third of America's 
food supply, rely on the pollination provided by bees.

In light of the leaked memo, the National Honey Bee Advisory Board, 
American Beekeeping Federation, American Honey Producers Association, 
Beyond Pesticides, Pesticide Action Network North America, and Center 
for Biological Diversity sent a letter to the EPA requesting that the 
agency "take urgent action to stop the use of this toxic chemical."

The letter goes on to point out that this new information indicates 
an overuse of the Office of Pesticide Program's conditional 
registration program. This bee boondoggle "represents a failure that 
could and should have been avoided." As a result, the coalition is 
calling for an immediate moratorium on these types of registration 
until the program is evaluated.

There's still a lot we don't know about Colony Collapse Disorder and 
the massive bee die-offs it's been causing. One thing we do know is 
that bees are in trouble, and that's not good news for all the 
animals (and humans) who rely on the plants these important insects 
sustain.

Join the call for the EPA to stop the sale of Poncho and conduct a 
thorough study into the pesticide's impact on wildlife.


>I signed the petition from Avaaz.  I hope you will too. see info below.
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>Silently, billions of bees are dying off and our entire food chain is in
>danger. Bees don't just make honey, they are a giant, humble workforce,
>pollinating 90% of the plants we grow.
>
>Scientists increasingly blame one group of toxic pesticides for their
>rapid demise, and bee populations have soared in four European countries
>that have banned these p! roducts. But powerful chemical companies are
>lobbying hard to keep selling this poison. Our best chance to save bees
>now is to push the US and EU to join the ban -- their action is critical
>and will have a ripple effect on the rest of the world.
>
>We have no time to lose -- the debate is raging about what to do. This
>is not just about saving bumble bees, this is about our survival. Let's
>build a giant global buzz calling for the EU and US to outlaw these
>killer chemicals and save our bees and our food. Sign the emergency
>petition now and send it on to everyone and we'll deliver it to key
>decision makers:
>
>http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_bees/97.php?cl_tta_sign=f5178bbdb865c699796c0757009c00f7
>
>Bees are vital to life on earth -- every year pollinating plants and
>crops with an estimated $40bn value, over one third of the food supply
>in many countries. With! out immediate action to save bees we could end
>up with no fruit, no vegetables, no nuts, no oils and no cotton.
>
>Recent years have seen a steep and disturbing global decline in bee
>populations -- some bee species are now extinct and others are at just
>4% of their previous numbers. Scientists have been scrambling for
>answers. Some studies claim the decline may be due to a combination of
>factors including disease, habitat loss and toxic chemicals. But new
>leading independent research has produced strong evidence blaming
>neonicotinoid pesticides. France, Italy, Slovenia and even Germany,
>where the main manufacturer Bayer is based, have banned one of these bee
>killers. But, Bayer continues to export its poison across the world.
>
>This issue is now coming to the boil as major new studies have confirmed

Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER

2008-09-25 Thread Keith Addison
Hi Andres

>Thanks for your emailwell i used 900 ml of Soy oil, 180 ml of Methanol,
>3.15g of NaOH..Temperatura was since 132.8 ºF to 122 ºF and 60 minutes of
>proccesing. I obtained:
>  * 80 ml of glicerin layer
>  * 1000 ml of methyl ester layer
>Then the 1000ml of methyl ester layer was washed by stir washing with 334 ml
>of water to 95 ºF, with this it formed 0.276 inches of soap layer between BD
>and water.  This is my first test batch

Fox was right:
>  try KOH rather than NaOH.

Go to the beginning, that's here:
Where do I start?
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start

And go down to "Make your first test batch":

>  Either potassium hydroxide (KOH) or sodium hydroxide (NaOH) can be 
>used, but we recommend KOH, especially for beginners -- KOH is 
>easier to use and it gives better results

It's a 10-step process. Step 6 is settling after processing:

>... After settling, carefully decant the top layer of biodiesel into 
>a clean jar or PET bottle, taking care not to get any of the 
>glycerine layer mixed up with the biodiesel. If you do, re-settle 
>and try again.
>
>7. Quality
>
>Proceed to the wash-test 
> and the 
>methanol test 
> to 
>check the quality of your biodiesel.

But you seem to have missed Step 7 and gone straight on to Step 8, Washing.

Step 7 ends with this:
>  Here's what to do if your test batch fails the tests.
>  

That's this:

>What should you do if your fuel doesn't pass the wash-test?
>The three main reasons test batches fail are failure to follow the 
>instructions properly, inaccurate measurements, and poor-quality 
>chemicals, in that order...

Also: How to use the quality tests:


The Wash test section says:

>  The biodiesel should separate from the water in half an hour or 
>less, with amber (and cloudy) biodiesel on top and milky water 
>below, and no more than a "paper-thin" white layer between the oil 
>and water.

So your test batch probably wouldn't have passed the test, but it's a 
good sign that it survived stir-washing without emulsifying, you're 
doing well!

Why not go back to the beginning and start again? Step by step, 
include the quality tests this time.

Best

Keith




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Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER

2008-09-25 Thread andres alejandro portilla
Thanks for your emailwell i used 900 ml of Soy oil, 180 ml of Methanol,
3.15g of NaOH..Temperatura was since 132.8 ºF to 122 ºF and 60 minutes of
proccesing. I obtained:
 * 80 ml of glicerin layer
 * 1000 ml of methyl ester layer
Then the 1000ml of methyl ester layer was washed by stir washing with 334 ml
of water to 95 ºF, with this it formed 0.276 inches of soap layer between BD
and water.  This is my first test batch
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Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER

2008-09-24 Thread Bruno M.
hi Andres,

Wrong question I'm afraid,
Are U sure it's soap?
And 0.276 inches doesn't tell us anything,
0.276 on what? 69 inches of BD, sounds good, on 0.69 inches of BD, sounds very 
bad.
and is your container of a regular shape? Else  inches don't mean a thing.what 
wrong with %volume.
And please tell us more details:
 what oil did you use, was every thing dry before you started : oil, caustic 
and methanol?
how did you wash, with what, etc ...

Grts
Bruno M.

At 07:31 24/09/2008, "andres alejandro portilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hello,,Could somebody tell me if 0.276 inches of soap is normal after first
>washing of biodiesel, please?
>-- next part --
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>=


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Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER

2008-09-24 Thread Thomas Kelly
Andres,
 Is this a test wash from a 1 L test batch?
 That is the place to start.

   Tom
- Original Message - 
From: "andres alejandro portilla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:31 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER


> Hello,,Could somebody tell me if 0.276 inches of soap is normal after 
> first
> washing of biodiesel, please?
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> 



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Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER

2008-09-24 Thread fox mulder
try KOH rather than NaOH.
--- andres alejandro portilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hello,,Could somebody tell me if 0.276 inches of
> soap is normal after first
> washing of biodiesel, please?
> -- next part --
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>
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> 



  

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Re: [Biofuel] Help

2007-09-29 Thread Bob Molloy
Hi guys,
   Michael, Doug, Kirk and Tallex, thanks for a stream of info
on water power. Blown away by the response. Will be happily spending the
next few days digesting.
Regards,
Bob.




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Re: [Biofuel] Help

2007-09-29 Thread Michael Arkoosh
Flow (cubic feet per second) x Head (feet) x Efficiency (Approximately 80%)
/ 11.8 = KW per hour

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Bob Molloy
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:51 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Help

Hi all,
  I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local
area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for
calculating the power potential.  For example, what amount of power in
kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre
equivalent falling a distance of one metre? 
Regards,
Bob.

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Re: [Biofuel] Help

2007-09-29 Thread Kirk McLoren
If the flow is small and pressure is reasonable a trevithick piston hydraulic 
motor is simple and extremely efficient.

AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
You might be interested in this,

regards
tallex

http://wildwaterpower.com/

> ---Original Message---
> From: doug 
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help
> Sent: 29 Sep '07 07:13
> 
> Rainbow power do micro-hydro generators.
> You need a good flow, & fall: about 1 atmosphere pressure for every ~10M
> drop. But you need to take losses into account.
> A friend built a hydro using a 3 phase motor: think he got ~ 300W from it. He
> used the Rainbow impeller (that he actually got from the developer, before
> Rainbow sold it I think.)
> 
> Try googling micro hydro systems.
> 
> regards Doug
> 
> On Saturday 29 September 2007 04:51:22 pm Bob Molloy wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >   I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local
> > area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for
> > calculating the power potential.  For example, what amount of power in
> > kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre
> > equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards,
> > Bob.
> >




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Re: [Biofuel] Help

2007-09-29 Thread AltEnergyNetwork

You might be interested in this,

regards
tallex

http://wildwaterpower.com/

>  ---Original Message---
>  From: doug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help
>  Sent: 29 Sep '07 07:13
>  
>  Rainbow power do micro-hydro generators.
>  You need a good flow, & fall: about 1 atmosphere pressure for every ~10M
>  drop. But you need to take losses into account.
>  A friend built a hydro using a 3 phase motor: think he got ~ 300W from it. He
>  used the Rainbow impeller (that he actually got from the developer, before
>  Rainbow sold it I think.)
>  
>  Try googling micro hydro systems.
>  
>  regards Doug
>  
>  On Saturday 29 September 2007 04:51:22 pm Bob Molloy wrote:
>  > Hi all,
>  >   I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local
>  > area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for
>  > calculating the power potential.  For example, what amount of power in
>  > kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre
>  > equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards,
>  > Bob.
>  >




Get your daily alternative energy news

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1000+ news sources-resources
updated daily

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Re: [Biofuel] Help

2007-09-29 Thread doug
Rainbow power do micro-hydro generators.
 You need a good flow, & fall: about 1 atmosphere pressure for every ~10M 
drop. But you need to take losses into account.
 A friend built a hydro using a 3 phase motor: think he got ~ 300W from it. He 
used the Rainbow impeller (that he actually got from the developer, before 
Rainbow sold it I think.)

 Try googling micro hydro systems.

regards Doug

On Saturday 29 September 2007 04:51:22 pm Bob Molloy wrote:
> Hi all,
>   I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local
> area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for
> calculating the power potential.  For example, what amount of power in
> kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre
> equivalent falling a distance of one metre? Regards,
> Bob.
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help

2007-09-28 Thread robert and benita
Bob Molloy wrote:

>Hi all,
>  I'm exploring the possibilities of minor hydro power in my local 
> area from waterfalls, lake outlets etc. but need a good rule of thumb for 
> calculating the power potential.  For example, what amount of power in 
> kilowatts can I expect from a cubic metre of water or its kilolitre 
> equivalent falling a distance of one metre? 
>Regards,
>Bob.
>
>  
>

Oh, I used to be REALLY into this sort of thing, but I can't be 
certain that my formula is correct.  It's something like vertical fall 
in meters X liters per second X 10 = power in watts.  That's what's 
springing to mind right now, but it's LATE and I really should be 
sleeping, not thinking about hydro power . . .

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
"The Long Journey"
New Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Help Wanted

2007-02-08 Thread Tonomár András
What is your question?


- Original Message -
From: "Philip Gwinnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:42 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Help Wanted


>
> Amongst all you smart people on the mailing list do we perchace have a
mechanical engineer who can help me with a set of helical gears to drive a
solar device I'm building? I know what it looks like but I need assistance
on the technical front.
>
> All replies gratefully accepted.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Philip
> Hainan Bioenergy
>
>
> _
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Re: [Biofuel] Help Wanted

2007-02-07 Thread Adithya sridhar

wat kinda help u looking for?.

On 2/7/07, Philip Gwinnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Amongst all you smart people on the mailing list do we perchace have a
mechanical engineer who can help me with a set of helical gears to drive a
solar device I'm building? I know what it looks like but I need assistance
on the technical front.

All replies gratefully accepted.

Best Regards,

Philip
Hainan Bioenergy


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-22 Thread Bob Carr
Hi Mark,

If your thermostat can take the full current of your heating element, you 
just wire it in series. The rod type thermostat found in most UK domestic 
immersion heaters will work just fine for this. The down side is they are 
usually made of brass.
If you do decide to use washing machine elements, I would reccomend using 
two in a 75 litre processor, giving a total output of approx 5kw. Wire them 
on separate circuits, one through the thermostat and one with just a switch.
Use two elements to heat the oil up to working temperature, then switch to 
just one for the processing.
Well that is how I would do it anyway.

Cheers
Bob

Oh yes, I am in Northants


- Original Message - 
From: "Mark` Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor


> Bob
>
> Thanks for the offered help, I am at the moment trying to make a 75 litre
> processor.The stainless kettle element you bought for your first processor
> how did you rig up a therostat to it was it quite easy?
> P-S I am in Lancs are you any where near?
>
> Regards
>
> Mark
>
>>From: "Bob Carr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: 
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:22:47 +0100
>>
>>Hi Mark,
>>How big is your processor?
>>I made my first 15 litre processor using a stainless kettle element, 
>>bought
>>from a local electical store for just £4.50. It is still working fine 
>>after
>>a year.
>>I am now using a 150 litre processor that is heated by hot water from a
>>home
>>made gas boiler. The long term plan is to convert the boiler to run on a
>>mixture of glycerol and bio heating oil, but I am not there yet.
>>If you need help sourcing stuff locally, I will help wherever I can
>>Regards
>>Bob
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Mark` Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>>
>>
>> > keith
>> >
>> > Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but
>>they
>> > are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of
>> > other
>> > alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> >>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>> >>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900
>> >>
>> >> >Hi to every one,
>> >> >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a
>> >>heater
>> >> >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told,
>>in
>> >> >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find 
>> >> >a
>> >> >supplier here in the UK.
>> >> >Any suggestions anybody?
>> >> >
>> >> >Mark
>> >>
>> >>Hi Mark
>> >>
>> >>Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
>> >>Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
>> >>you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
>> >>steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
>> >>countries. Seek and ye shall find.
>> >>
>> >>HTH, good luck.
>> >>
>> >>Keith
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>___
>> >>Biofuel mailing list
>> >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>> >>
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>> >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>> >>
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>> >>messages):
>> >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>> >>
>> >
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>> > free!
>> > http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb
>> >
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>>
&g

Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-21 Thread Golan Shmuel
hi mark
i use 2500 kw heating elements that being used in home boilers they are very cheap not from Cooper i don't no whats it from .have two of them in a 150 liters reactor
yet most of the process i use only 1 only in the beginning when i heat the oil i use both of them to speed things up i change 1 of the elements about 3 month ago (i burned it up in mistake)the other one seams as new after 9 month in here it cost 25-30 shekels which is more or less 3 paonds.

works fine for 14 month already
all the best
Golan 
 
On 21/10/06, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Philip>Hi,>>I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems,
How do you know there were no problems? Did you have your fuel testedfor oxidation? See:http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#copperstudy
And:Oxidation and polymerisationhttp://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#oxidBestKeith>although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a
>'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers>merchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it also>makes replacement easier.>>Philip>>- Original Message 
>From: Mark` Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor>>>keith>>Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they>are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other
>alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]>>Mark>>> >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Reply-To: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor> >Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900
> >> > >Hi to every one,> > >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a> >heater> > >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in
> > >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a> > >supplier here in the UK.> > >Any suggestions anybody?> > >> > >Mark> >
> >Hi Mark> >> >Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.> >Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so> >you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
> >steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all> >countries. Seek and ye shall find.> >> >HTH, good luck.> >> >Keith___
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-21 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Philip

>Hi,
>
>I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems,

How do you know there were no problems? Did you have your fuel tested 
for oxidation? See:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#copperstudy

And:
Oxidation and polymerisation
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#oxid

Best

Keith


>although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 
>'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers 
>merchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it also 
>makes replacement easier.
>
>Philip
>
>- Original Message 
>From: Mark` Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>
>
>keith
>
>Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they
>are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other
>alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]
>
>Mark
>
>
> >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
> >Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900
> >
> > >Hi to every one,
> > >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a
> >heater
> > >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in
> > >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
> > >supplier here in the UK.
> > >Any suggestions anybody?
> > >
> > >Mark
> >
> >Hi Mark
> >
> >Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
> >Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
> >you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
> >steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
> >countries. Seek and ye shall find.
> >
> >HTH, good luck.
> >
> >Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-20 Thread Mark` Cookson

Bob

Thanks for the offered help, I am at the moment trying to make a 75 litre 
processor.The stainless kettle element you bought for your first processor 
how did you rig up a therostat to it was it quite easy?

P-S I am in Lancs are you any where near?

Regards

Mark


From: "Bob Carr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: 
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:22:47 +0100

Hi Mark,
How big is your processor?
I made my first 15 litre processor using a stainless kettle element, bought
from a local electical store for just £4.50. It is still working fine after
a year.
I am now using a 150 litre processor that is heated by hot water from a 
home

made gas boiler. The long term plan is to convert the boiler to run on a
mixture of glycerol and bio heating oil, but I am not there yet.
If you need help sourcing stuff locally, I will help wherever I can
Regards
Bob
- Original Message -
From: "Mark` Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor


> keith
>
> Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but 
they

> are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of
> other
> alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]
>
> Mark
>
>
>>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900
>>
>> >Hi to every one,
>> >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a
>>heater
>> >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, 
in

>> >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
>> >supplier here in the UK.
>> >Any suggestions anybody?
>> >
>> >Mark
>>
>>Hi Mark
>>
>>Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
>>Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
>>you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
>>steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
>>countries. Seek and ye shall find.
>>
>>HTH, good luck.
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>
>>___
>>Biofuel mailing list
>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>
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>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>>messages):
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-20 Thread Mark` Cookson
Thanks for your words Philip, I am going to try a washing machine one as 
sugested.


I priced up a brand new stainless emersion heater 30" long yesturday it came 
out at £211.10 or for our friends over the pond $396.668 [US]

A 24" one came out at £ 182.60 or $343.28 [US]

Roll on the old washing machine there is a god after all !!!

Mark



From: philip reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:48:38 -0700 (PDT)

Hi,

I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no 
problems, although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 
'mechanical boss' for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers 
merchant which eases and improves the fit through the tank, it also makes 
replacement easier.


Philip

- Original Message 
From: Mark` Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor


keith

Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they
are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of 
other

alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]

Mark


>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900
>
> >Hi to every one,
> >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a
>heater
> >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, 
in

> >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
> >supplier here in the UK.
> >Any suggestions anybody?
> >
> >Mark
>
>Hi Mark
>
>Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
>Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
>you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
>steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
>countries. Seek and ye shall find.
>
>HTH, good luck.
>
>Keith
>
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
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>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-20 Thread philip reid
Hi,

I used a copper immersion heater element for several years with no problems, 
although a stainless one would be more durable. I obtained a 'mechanical boss' 
for the immersion heater in a local (UK) plumbers merchant which eases and 
improves the fit through the tank, it also makes replacement easier.

Philip

- Original Message 
From: Mark` Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor


keith

Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they 
are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other 
alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]

Mark


>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900
>
> >Hi to every one,
> >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a 
>heater
> >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in
> >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
> >supplier here in the UK.
> >Any suggestions anybody?
> >
> >Mark
>
>Hi Mark
>
>Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
>Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
>you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
>steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
>countries. Seek and ye shall find.
>
>HTH, good luck.
>
>Keith
>
>
>___
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-19 Thread Mark` Cookson

Matt

Thanks for the great pointers what a good idea I never knew they used them 
in washing machines.


Thanks again.

Mark



From: Matthew Law <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:03:27 +0200 (CEST)

Hi Mark,

How big a processor are you making? I have a local domestic electrical 
repair place that sell stainless heating elements from all sorts of stuff - 
washing machines, dishwashers, water heaters, etc.  Some of the smaller 
ones are quite reasonably priced.


Find your local repair place and drop in to see what they can do.  Its 
always worth trying to strike a bargain on that old one that they have in 
the back that doesn't seem to fit anything useful!  It's better to haggle 
in person, trust me!


Good luck,

Matt (near Rotherham, South Yorkshire)

- Original Message 
From: Mark` Cookson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, 19 October, 2006 8:47:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

keith

Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they
are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of 
other

alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]

Mark


>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900
>
> >Hi to every one,
> >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a
>heater
> >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, 
in

> >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
> >supplier here in the UK.
> >Any suggestions anybody?
> >
> >Mark
>
>Hi Mark
>
>Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
>Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
>you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
>steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
>countries. Seek and ye shall find.
>
>HTH, good luck.
>
>Keith
>
>
>___
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-19 Thread Bob Carr
Hi Mark,
How big is your processor?
I made my first 15 litre processor using a stainless kettle element, bought 
from a local electical store for just £4.50. It is still working fine after 
a year.
I am now using a 150 litre processor that is heated by hot water from a home 
made gas boiler. The long term plan is to convert the boiler to run on a 
mixture of glycerol and bio heating oil, but I am not there yet.
If you need help sourcing stuff locally, I will help wherever I can
Regards
Bob
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark` Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor


> keith
>
> Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they
> are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of 
> other
> alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]
>
> Mark
>
>
>>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
>>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900
>>
>> >Hi to every one,
>> >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a
>>heater
>> >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in
>> >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
>> >supplier here in the UK.
>> >Any suggestions anybody?
>> >
>> >Mark
>>
>>Hi Mark
>>
>>Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
>>Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
>>you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
>>steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
>>countries. Seek and ye shall find.
>>
>>HTH, good luck.
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>
>>___
>>Biofuel mailing list
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>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
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>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>>messages):
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>>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-19 Thread Matthew Law
Hi Mark,How big a processor are you making? I have a local domestic electrical repair place that sell stainless heating elements from all sorts of stuff - washing machines, dishwashers, water heaters, etc.  Some of the smaller ones are quite reasonably priced.Find your local repair place and drop in to see what they can do.  Its always worth trying to strike a bargain on that old one that they have in the back that doesn't seem to fit anything useful!  It's better to haggle in person, trust me!Good luck,Matt (near Rotherham, South Yorkshire)- Original Message From: Mark` Cookson
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thursday, 19 October, 2006 8:47:59 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with ProcessorkeithThanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]Mark>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900>> >Hi to every one,> >I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a >heater> >element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in> >Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a> >supplier here in the
 UK.> >Any suggestions anybody?> >> >Mark>>Hi Mark>>Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.>Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so>you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless>steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all>countries. Seek and ye shall find.>>HTH, good luck.>>Keith>>>___>Biofuel mailing list>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >messages):>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>_Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to
 Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-19 Thread Tonomár András
Hello,

Others may disagree with me but I use copper heater and some piping in my
processor for more then 1
year. My experience is that it resist to unwashed Biodiesel perfectly.

Although in the wash-dry tank it is a different storry. There is a little
corrosion - dillution of the copper
elements where it is in contact with finished Biodiesel.
I can say that you can use copper in the reactor, but try to avoid it in the
wash and dry tanks.
If you can not find stainless steel then use it but take a closer look at it
each month.

reg.
ANdrew


> Hi to every one,
> I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater
> element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in
> Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
> supplier here in the UK.
> Any suggestions anybody?
>
> Mark
>
> _
> Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters!
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messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-19 Thread Mark` Cookson

keith

Thanks for that, you can get stainless immersion heater[element] but they 
are a fortune to buy brand new. I thought any list members may know of other 
alternatives? [ or supplys in the UK]


Mark



From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:51:09 +0900

>Hi to every one,
>I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a 
heater

>element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in
>Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
>supplier here in the UK.
>Any suggestions anybody?
>
>Mark

Hi Mark

Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
countries. Seek and ye shall find.

HTH, good luck.

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-18 Thread Jason& Katie
what about electric water heater elements? you can get them in 120 and 240V 
models in america, and i think theyre stainless. not exactly what you are 
looking for, but they can be built into the holding tanks. (a little more 
work at the front end, but i think it would be worth it long term)
Jason
ICQ#:  154998177
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor


> >Hi to every one,
>>I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater
>>element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in
>>Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
>>supplier here in the UK.
>>Any suggestions anybody?
>>
>>Mark
>
> Hi Mark
>
> Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc.
> Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so
> you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless
> steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all
> countries. Seek and ye shall find.
>
> HTH, good luck.
>
> Keith
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with Processor

2006-10-18 Thread Keith Addison
>Hi to every one,
>I am trying to build a processor but having difficulty in finding a heater
>element that is not made of copper? I am in the UK, I have been told, in
>Holland they make a brass emersion heater element but I can not find a
>supplier here in the UK.
>Any suggestions anybody?
>
>Mark

Hi Mark

Brass won't do either, neither will bronze, lead, tin and zinc. 
Aluminium doesn't react with biodiesel but it does react with lye so 
you can't use it in a processor. Stainless steel is best. Stainless 
steel immersion heaters definitely exist, surely obtainable in all 
countries. Seek and ye shall find.

HTH, good luck.

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-26 Thread Thomas Kelly
Charles,
 I think an "oil" burner can tolerate impurities. The problem is that 
you may have to make some minor modifications. The problem I had, and, I 
think, you as well, was that we were burning inferior fuel w/o any 
modifications to the burner. I think that glycerides in the fuel (from 
incomplete reactions) at low temp and pressure can coke up nozzles and 
electrodes.

 I have a Beckett AF burner  ---> baseboard hot water for heat  +  the 
furnace (boiler) has a coil that supplies domestic hot water. I think any 
burner can burn BD. I don't think it has to be the high quality BD I use in 
my car, but lower quality fuel may require some adjustments..
I put a T in my fuel line, as you have said you plan to do   be sure 
to use flare fittings rather than compression fittings. I've gone to all 
brass, heavy duty valves ... again flare fittings. I have a cartridge fuel 
filter in both the line from the main tank as well as in the line from the 
"experimental" (now 100% BD) tank.
***I ran about 1 foot (~30cm) of the copper tube from the BD tank up the 
pipe that carries hot water from the boiler to the circulator to heat my 
house. The copper tubing then runs down the same pipe back to the T in the 
line. I wrapped the tubing and pipe w. insulation. The water inside the pipe 
is 160 - 180F (71 - 82C). As long as my heat is on the BD is preheated 
passively.
 I put a pressure gauge on my pump and increased pressure from 100psi to 
125psi. I changed from a
1.0 gallon/hour nozzle to a 0.75 gph nozzle.
 Make sure that air cannot get in the furnace/boiler through any 
openings  use furnace cement if necessary. Ex: I could see light  (from 
the flame) coming out bolt holes in my burner gasket  sealed them shut. 
Don't seal inspection port  you'll want to check flame and for smoke.
  I also had to decrease air flow. On my burner there are two adjustment 
bands. One is closed for 100% BD while the other is partly open.
   I installed a Webster Bio Pump (viton seals --> BD compatible). The 
pump on the burner worked fine all winter, but I had concerns about 
biodiesel causing the seal to eventually leak. Bio-Pump   ~ $75 US; very 
easy to install on my burner ("drop in").

 I recently made a batch of BD that failed the methanol quality test; 
about 75L (20 gal). It burned fine in the boiler with the above 
modifications (w/o the pre-heating).
 I have been experimenting with adding Free Fatty Acids (FFAs) to the BD 
in my heating system. They seemed to burn fine (~5% FFAs : 95%BD) until the 
warm weather came, my heating system was off, and the mix was no longer 
being pre-heated. I got some coking.

 My point is that for heating purposes you probably don't need high 
quality BD. You probably will have to make some minor adjustments to your 
system  ...  pre-heating the fuel and/or changing pressure/nozzles/air flow.
 Knowing how to test the quality of your fuel is still valuable. The 
methanol test is quick and cheap. That, along w. some tweaking of the 
process (increase temp  a few degrees/ time by 15 minutes) you will improve 
fuel quality. It is possible to make BD that passes the quality test w/o any 
serious inconvenience or increased cost. In the mean time less than perfect 
fuel should work fine in the boiler.
   Best of luck,
Tom
- Original Message - 
From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!


> Hi Tom
>
> As a further aside- I am, of course, trying to make the best
> biodiesel i can, but what % of impurities (ie methanol test failure)
> did you burner put up with? I'm down to 10% with my 1l trial runs now
> as I tweak the process for my creamy canola.
>
> Charles
>
>
> On 22/06/2006, at 12:20 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>
>> Charles,
>> I did as you plan to   put a T in the line so I could have
>> a small
>> "experimental" tank, and gradually increased BD conc.  Had no
>> problem until
>> about 50 - 60% BD. Some minor adjustments to the burner at that point.
>> An interesting development: The shut off valves in the line
>> apparently
>> have a rubber or plastic seal. The valve from the large tank (30%
>> biodiesel
>> : 70% petro) is fine. The valve from the smaller tank (100% BD) is
>> dripping.
>>  gives me something to do this morning.
>>         Tom
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>>
>>
>>> Hi Tom
>>>
>>>

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-25 Thread Charles List
Hi Tom

As a further aside- I am, of course, trying to make the best  
biodiesel i can, but what % of impurities (ie methanol test failure)  
did you burner put up with? I'm down to 10% with my 1l trial runs now  
as I tweak the process for my creamy canola.

Charles


On 22/06/2006, at 12:20 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:

> Charles,
> I did as you plan to   put a T in the line so I could have  
> a small
> "experimental" tank, and gradually increased BD conc.  Had no  
> problem until
> about 50 - 60% BD. Some minor adjustments to the burner at that point.
> An interesting development: The shut off valves in the line  
> apparently
> have a rubber or plastic seal. The valve from the large tank (30%  
> biodiesel
> : 70% petro) is fine. The valve from the smaller tank (100% BD) is  
> dripping.
>  gives me something to do this morning.
> Tom
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>
>
>> Hi Tom
>>
>> Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on.
>> I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask
>> about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on
>> the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how  
>> I go.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> Charles,
>>>  Then creamy canola it is.
>>>
>>>  It sounds as though you are getting a reaction  .
>>> methanol test tells us it is not complete.
>>>
>>>  Could be the KOH
>>>
>>>  I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the
>>> seller (or
>>> the bag) said it was.
>>>
>>>  Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of
>>> known purity?
>>>  You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of
>>> known purity
>>> and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A
>>> comparison of
>>> the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity.
>>>  I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated)
>>> 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the
>>> unknown.  (Titration is inverse to concentration)
>>> 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known.
>>>
>>> Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L
>>>   "Unknown" KOH titrates  3.6 g/L
>>>
>>> 1. 3.0 divided by  3.6  =  0.8
>>> 2. 0.8  X  .85   =   .708
>>> "Unknown" =  70.8%  KOH
>>>
>>>  If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by
>>> 1.4  prior
>>> to step 1.
>>>
>>> You wrote:
>>> "Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I
>>> hope) then
>>> thin layer (5%) what looks like
>>> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash
>>> test and
>>> the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio" on
>>> top. The
>>> "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test."
>>>
>>> Bottom layer:  glycerine, I think
>>> Top layer:   biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that
>>>   precipitate out in the methanol test)
>>> Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration
>>>   suggests you will get some soap, but I think
>>>   5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not
>>>   using enough caustic.
>>>Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?)
>>> Be patient.
>>> Check the KOH.
>>> Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's
>>> water in it
>>> will spatter.
>>>  Hang in there,
>>>Tom
>>> P.S.
>>>  What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler?
>>>  Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?)
>>>  (Just curious)
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi T

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-21 Thread Thomas Kelly
Charles,
I did as you plan to   put a T in the line so I could have a small 
"experimental" tank, and gradually increased BD conc.  Had no problem until 
about 50 - 60% BD. Some minor adjustments to the burner at that point.
An interesting development: The shut off valves in the line apparently 
have a rubber or plastic seal. The valve from the large tank (30% biodiesel 
: 70% petro) is fine. The valve from the smaller tank (100% BD) is dripping.
 gives me something to do this morning.
Tom

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!


> Hi Tom
>
> Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on.
> I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask
> about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on
> the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how I go.
>
> Best
>
> Charles
>
> On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>
>> Charles,
>>  Then creamy canola it is.
>>
>>  It sounds as though you are getting a reaction  .
>> methanol test tells us it is not complete.
>>
>>  Could be the KOH
>>
>>  I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the
>> seller (or
>> the bag) said it was.
>>
>>  Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of
>> known purity?
>>  You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of
>> known purity
>> and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A
>> comparison of
>> the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity.
>>  I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated)
>> 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the
>> unknown.  (Titration is inverse to concentration)
>> 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known.
>>
>> Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L
>>   "Unknown" KOH titrates  3.6 g/L
>>
>> 1. 3.0 divided by  3.6  =  0.8
>> 2. 0.8  X  .85   =   .708
>> "Unknown" =  70.8%  KOH
>>
>>  If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by
>> 1.4  prior
>> to step 1.
>>
>> You wrote:
>> "Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I
>> hope) then
>> thin layer (5%) what looks like
>> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash
>> test and
>> the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio" on
>> top. The
>> "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test."
>>
>> Bottom layer:  glycerine, I think
>> Top layer:   biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that
>>   precipitate out in the methanol test)
>> Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration
>>   suggests you will get some soap, but I think
>>   5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not
>>   using enough caustic.
>>Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?)
>> Be patient.
>> Check the KOH.
>> Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's
>> water in it
>> will spatter.
>>  Hang in there,
>>Tom
>> P.S.
>>  What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler?
>>  Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?)
>>  (Just curious)
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>>
>>
>>> Hi Tom
>>>
>>> Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I
>>> can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I
>>> shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy-
>>> brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like
>>> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash
>>> test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio"
>>> on top. The "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol
>>> test.
>>>
>>> So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is
>>> there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH 

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-20 Thread Charles List
Hi Tom

Many thanks for the advice. I will let you know how I get on.
I intend (hopefully) to run B100 in my boiler. I was planning to ask  
about the adjustments I will have to make! I have set up a T-piece on  
the fuel feed so I can try small amount of different % to see how I go.

Best

Charles

On 21/06/2006, at 2:30 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:

> Charles,
>  Then creamy canola it is.
>
>  It sounds as though you are getting a reaction  .
> methanol test tells us it is not complete.
>
>  Could be the KOH
>
>  I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the  
> seller (or
> the bag) said it was.
>
>  Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of  
> known purity?
>  You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of  
> known purity
> and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A  
> comparison of
> the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity.
>  I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated)
> 1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the
> unknown.  (Titration is inverse to concentration)
> 2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known.
>
> Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L
>   "Unknown" KOH titrates  3.6 g/L
>
> 1. 3.0 divided by  3.6  =  0.8
> 2. 0.8  X  .85   =   .708
> "Unknown" =  70.8%  KOH
>
>  If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by  
> 1.4  prior
> to step 1.
>
> You wrote:
> "Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I  
> hope) then
> thin layer (5%) what looks like
> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash  
> test and
> the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio" on  
> top. The
> "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test."
>
> Bottom layer:  glycerine, I think
> Top layer:   biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that
>   precipitate out in the methanol test)
> Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration
>   suggests you will get some soap, but I think
>   5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not
>   using enough caustic.
>Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?)
> Be patient.
> Check the KOH.
> Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's  
> water in it
> will spatter.
>  Hang in there,
>Tom
> P.S.
>  What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler?
>  Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?)
>  (Just curious)
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>
>
>> Hi Tom
>>
>> Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I
>> can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I
>> shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy-
>> brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like
>> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash
>> test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio"
>> on top. The "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol  
>> test.
>>
>> So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is
>> there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate?
>>
>> In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark
>> brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at
>> 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too).
>>
>> My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has
>> sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola
>> is all I have to work with!!
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> Charles,
>>>  I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were
>>> pure or
>>> somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of
>>> achieving a
>>> complete reaction.
>>> i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests.
>>>
>>>   I admit to being as perplexed as you
>>>
>>>   Is it correct to say that your first problems arose  
>>> when you
>>> started using the "crea

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-20 Thread Thomas Kelly
Charles,
 Then creamy canola it is.

 It sounds as though you are getting a reaction  .
methanol test tells us it is not complete.

 Could be the KOH

 I have gotten new caustic that was not the concentration the seller (or 
the bag) said it was.

 Do you have (or can you get) a sample of KOH (or NaOH) of known purity?
 You could titrate a sample of the WVO with the caustic of known purity 
and then titrate the same oil w. the new, questionable KOH. A comparison of 
the titrations on the same WVO would indicate its purity.
 I would do it like this: (corrections appreciated)
1. Divide the titration for the known by the titration for the
unknown.  (Titration is inverse to concentration)
2. Multiply result by the conc. of the known.

Ex: Known KOH is 85% and titration = 3.0 g/L
  "Unknown" KOH titrates  3.6 g/L

1. 3.0 divided by  3.6  =  0.8
2. 0.8  X  .85   =   .708
"Unknown" =  70.8%  KOH

 If the Known caustic is NaOH, then multiply its titration by 1.4  prior 
to step 1.

You wrote:
"Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- brown (glycerine I hope) then 
thin layer (5%) what looks like
unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash test and 
the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio" on top. The 
"bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test."

Bottom layer:  glycerine, I think
Top layer:   biodiesel + unreacted glycerides (that
  precipitate out in the methanol test)
Middle layer: soaps?3.6g KOH/L WVO titration
  suggests you will get some soap, but I think
  5% is a bit high ... especially if you are not
  using enough caustic.
   Could there be water in the oil (does it sizzle/pop when heated?)
Be patient.
Check the KOH.
Heat a sample of the oil. Stir it ... be careful, if there's water in it 
will spatter.
 Hang in there,
   Tom
P.S.
 What % biodiesel do you intend to burn in your boiler?
 Any adjustments to the burner (pressure, nozzle, air flow?)
 (Just curious)

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!


> Hi Tom
>
> Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I
> can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I
> shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy-
> brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like
> unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash
> test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio"
> on top. The "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test.
>
> So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is
> there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate?
>
> In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark
> brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at
> 3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too).
>
> My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has
> sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola
> is all I have to work with!!
>
> Best
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>
>> Charles,
>>  I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were
>> pure or
>> somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of
>> achieving a
>> complete reaction.
>> i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests.
>>
>>   I admit to being as perplexed as you
>>
>>   Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you
>> started using the "creamy canola oil"?
>>(150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches).
>>
>>  When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed
>> into the
>> oil by the impelled in a pump.
>>
>>  Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn
>> clear? You
>> mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that
>> the oil
>> contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've used
>> remained liquid below 10C.
>>  How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the
>> color of
>> the "biodiesel" you made?  I've made some very dark BD from very
>> dark WVO.
>> (see archives: "Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed"  Oct 20/05) I
>> couldn't see
>> the split w/o very bright light.
>&g

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-19 Thread Charles List
Hi Tom

Right, feel I'm making some progress. After a very cold night (-6C) I  
can now see three layers in my 1l test batch of creamy canola if I  
shine a light behind it. Bottom layer (20%) is solid and dark redy- 
brown (glycerine I hope) then thin layer (5%) what looks like  
unreacted oil, then rest is dark brown "bio".  It passes the wash  
test and the third wash leaves clean water underneath and brown "bio"  
on top. The "bio" also leaves about 20-30% residue in the methanol test.

So, from this, if I assume my KOH is at fault (Occum's razor) then is  
there an easy way I can tell how much more KOH to add to compensate?

In answer to your questions, the pre-treated oil turns very dark  
brown, almost black on heating past 25 degrees C and it titrates at  
3.6ml (I use KOH for the titration too).

My supply of normal canola has dried up as the restaurant owner has  
sold up and it is changing into an Indian take-away- so creamy canola  
is all I have to work with!!

Best

Charles



On 20/06/2006, at 4:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:

> Charles,
>  I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were  
> pure or
> somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of  
> achieving a
> complete reaction.
> i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests.
>
>   I admit to being as perplexed as you
>
>   Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you
> started using the "creamy canola oil"?
>(150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches).
>
>  When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed  
> into the
> oil by the impelled in a pump.
>
>  Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn  
> clear? You
> mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that  
> the oil
> contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've used
> remained liquid below 10C.
>  How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the  
> color of
> the "biodiesel" you made?  I've made some very dark BD from very  
> dark WVO.
> (see archives: "Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed"  Oct 20/05) I  
> couldn't see
> the split w/o very bright light.
>
>   Let's just consider one or two things:
> 1.  You have done several successful test batches using virgin oil  
> and then
> WVO so that you are on solid ground as to the measurements and  
> procedure. In
> fact you have been successful scaling up to 40L. (I assume you used a
> different WVO)
>
>  2. Re: your recent 1 L test batch:
>You cannot see any split even when viewed w. a bright
> light?
> Remove a sample from the top and a sample from the bottom.  
> (Keep them
> separate.)
> Perform a wash test on each sample. Do the samples behave  
> differently
> (from each other) when you perform a "wash test" on them?
>
>  What did you get for a titration on the oil?
>
>  If all else fails, you may have to go to other sources of WVO.  
> You had
> success up to 40L. You got clear cut splits, BD that washed, and  
> may well
> have passed quality tests. Before frustration overwhelms you it  
> might be a
> good idea to go back to where you were successful. Scale up using  
> the same
> WVO that you were successful with and perform quality test to fine  
> tune your
> process. If this "creamy canola" still fascinates you, do some 1L.  
> test
> batches with it.
>  You mentioned New Zealand; winter on your doorstep. Gotta get you
> making heating fuel. I'm on the other side of the equator   
> summer's
> heating up.
>  Good luck, and let me know how it goes.
>  Tom
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>
>
>> Hi Tom
>>
>> Thanks for that, I tried 70l at the weekend and end-product still
>> black, so I tried a 1l batch, still black!! I am using new KOH and
>> new methanol (as I'm scaling up I bought in bulk for the first time)
>> so could it be one of these that's the problem? If so, how do I test
>> if they're any good? I'm getting some kind of reaction as the black
>> product is liquid at zero Celsius, and my oil is solid at 10 degrees,
>> but I can't see any split at all and, as I said, the product is very
>> very dark brown, almost black!!
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> On 17/06/2006, at 1:59 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> Charles,
>>>

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-19 Thread Thomas Kelly
Charles,
 I think you would get a split, whether your chemicals were pure or 
somewhat contaminated. The problem would be more a matter of achieving a 
complete reaction.
i.e. You would get biodiesel, but it might not pass quality tests.

  I admit to being as perplexed as you

  Is it correct to say that your first problems arose when you 
started using the "creamy canola oil"?
   (150 L batch and now w. 70L and even 1L batches).

 When I hear creamy oil I think animal fat and/or water buzzed into the 
oil by the impelled in a pump.

 Do you pre-heat it before processing? If so, does it turn clear? You 
mention that the oil turns solid at 10C (50F). This suggests that the oil 
contains some animal fat . from cooking. The canola oil I've used 
remained liquid below 10C.
 How does the color of the oil, after heating, compare to the color of 
the "biodiesel" you made?  I've made some very dark BD from very dark WVO. 
(see archives: "Very Dark Biodiesel, help needed"  Oct 20/05) I couldn't see 
the split w/o very bright light.

  Let's just consider one or two things:
1.  You have done several successful test batches using virgin oil and then 
WVO so that you are on solid ground as to the measurements and procedure. In 
fact you have been successful scaling up to 40L. (I assume you used a 
different WVO)

 2. Re: your recent 1 L test batch:
   You cannot see any split even when viewed w. a bright
light?
Remove a sample from the top and a sample from the bottom. (Keep them 
separate.)
Perform a wash test on each sample. Do the samples behave differently 
(from each other) when you perform a "wash test" on them?

 What did you get for a titration on the oil?

 If all else fails, you may have to go to other sources of WVO. You had 
success up to 40L. You got clear cut splits, BD that washed, and may well 
have passed quality tests. Before frustration overwhelms you it might be a 
good idea to go back to where you were successful. Scale up using the same 
WVO that you were successful with and perform quality test to fine tune your 
process. If this "creamy canola" still fascinates you, do some 1L. test 
batches with it.
 You mentioned New Zealand; winter on your doorstep. Gotta get you 
making heating fuel. I'm on the other side of the equator  summer's 
heating up.
 Good luck, and let me know how it goes.
 Tom



- Original Message - 
From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!


> Hi Tom
>
> Thanks for that, I tried 70l at the weekend and end-product still
> black, so I tried a 1l batch, still black!! I am using new KOH and
> new methanol (as I'm scaling up I bought in bulk for the first time)
> so could it be one of these that's the problem? If so, how do I test
> if they're any good? I'm getting some kind of reaction as the black
> product is liquid at zero Celsius, and my oil is solid at 10 degrees,
> but I can't see any split at all and, as I said, the product is very
> very dark brown, almost black!!
>
> Charles
>
>
> On 17/06/2006, at 1:59 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>
>> Charles,
>>  I think that if you drop back to 80 L you are still making a
>> goodly bit
>> of fuel. You still may have to tweak the process  ... increase time
>> and or
>> temp. Get it right there and then go up in 5 or 10L increments,
>> testing each
>> batch, and again, tweaking, if necessary.
>>  I went from small test batches and slowly increased volume up
>> to 20 -
>> 25 L batches. I then jumped up to 130L batches.
>> When I discovered that the biodiesel wasn't as good as I
>> thought, I
>> dropped back to 76L (20 gal)batches. After increasing processing
>> time and
>> then increasing temp to 140F (60C) , I finally began to
>> consistently make BD
>> that passed the "methanol solubility test" and did not drop out
>> additional
>> glycerine when I reprocessed 1L of finished product.
>>  The limitation on my system seems to be about 91L (24 gal) and is
>> probably the volume limit of my pump, a 1" Clearwater pump.
>>  I still quality test each batch, not just to be sure of the
>> fuel, but
>> as a maintenance test for the processor and the materials being
>> used. Is my
>> recovered methanol pure enough? (If I use the first 4 gal I
>> recover, the BD
>> passes the quality test. When I use the first 6 gallons, little
>> buggers show
>> up in the methanol sol. test).
>>  Slow and methodical pays off.
>>  Best of luck.
>>

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-18 Thread Charles List
Hi Tom

Thanks for that, I tried 70l at the weekend and end-product still  
black, so I tried a 1l batch, still black!! I am using new KOH and  
new methanol (as I'm scaling up I bought in bulk for the first time)  
so could it be one of these that's the problem? If so, how do I test  
if they're any good? I'm getting some kind of reaction as the black  
product is liquid at zero Celsius, and my oil is solid at 10 degrees,  
but I can't see any split at all and, as I said, the product is very  
very dark brown, almost black!!

Charles


On 17/06/2006, at 1:59 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:

> Charles,
>  I think that if you drop back to 80 L you are still making a  
> goodly bit
> of fuel. You still may have to tweak the process  ... increase time  
> and or
> temp. Get it right there and then go up in 5 or 10L increments,  
> testing each
> batch, and again, tweaking, if necessary.
>  I went from small test batches and slowly increased volume up  
> to 20 -
> 25 L batches. I then jumped up to 130L batches.
> When I discovered that the biodiesel wasn't as good as I  
> thought, I
> dropped back to 76L (20 gal)batches. After increasing processing  
> time and
> then increasing temp to 140F (60C) , I finally began to  
> consistently make BD
> that passed the "methanol solubility test" and did not drop out  
> additional
> glycerine when I reprocessed 1L of finished product.
>  The limitation on my system seems to be about 91L (24 gal) and is
> probably the volume limit of my pump, a 1" Clearwater pump.
>  I still quality test each batch, not just to be sure of the  
> fuel, but
> as a maintenance test for the processor and the materials being  
> used. Is my
> recovered methanol pure enough? (If I use the first 4 gal I  
> recover, the BD
> passes the quality test. When I use the first 6 gallons, little  
> buggers show
> up in the methanol sol. test).
>  Slow and methodical pays off.
>  Best of luck.
>  Let me know how it goes,
>         Tom
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>
>
>> Hi Tom
>>
>> Thanks for the reply
>>
>> I see your point- I scaled up from 40l (with a different processor)
>> to 150l and I should have gone slower. I was just so keen to get
>> going! My newly built pump and processor will handle 150l- but where
>> do you think I should start? Should I scale right back to 50l and
>> work up slowly or could I start at around 80l?
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> On 16/06/2006, at 12:44 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> Charles,
>>>  Originally you wrote:
>>> "I have just scaled up to a 150l processor . "
>>> "I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as
>>> I go.
>>> Unfortunately, my first couple of big
>>> batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well"
>>>
>>>  At what point did you start having problems?
>>>  In other words how did you progress? (25L?  50L?  etc.)
>>> leading up to
>>> 150L.
>>>  I would suggest that you learn and then perform quality tests
>>> described
>>> at JTF (in addition to the "wash test") as you scale up. Checking
>>> to see if
>>> the BD is soluble in methanol (JTF: "Quality Testing") is as easy as
>>> performing the "wash test". Pass or fail, use the methanol from the
>>> test in
>>> your next batch.
>>>   Using quality tests on my BD as I scaled up allowed me to
>>> tweak the
>>> process (volume of WVO, temp, time).
>>> The limit for my processor seems to be about 91L.
>>>
>>>  Following misinformation from another group, I scaled up to  
>>> 130L
>>> batches, only to find out, after learning about quality testing at
>>> JTF, that
>>> I was NOT making quality fuel.
>>> My batches passed the "wash test", but failed upon reprocessing
>>> (1L), and
>>> also failed the methanol solubility test.
>>>  This poor quality fuel (incomplete reactions) had been poured
>>> into my
>>> into my heating oil tank  ---> roughly 30% BD : 70% petro. While I
>>> was away
>>> the burner failed to start. Fuel had "leaked" out onto the floor.  
>>> The
>>> service tech told my wife that the nozzle had some "crap" on it   
>>> >
&

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-16 Thread Thomas Kelly
Charles,
 I think that if you drop back to 80 L you are still making a goodly bit 
of fuel. You still may have to tweak the process  ... increase time and or 
temp. Get it right there and then go up in 5 or 10L increments, testing each 
batch, and again, tweaking, if necessary.
 I went from small test batches and slowly increased volume up to 20 - 
25 L batches. I then jumped up to 130L batches.
When I discovered that the biodiesel wasn't as good as I thought, I 
dropped back to 76L (20 gal)batches. After increasing processing time and 
then increasing temp to 140F (60C) , I finally began to consistently make BD 
that passed the "methanol solubility test" and did not drop out additional 
glycerine when I reprocessed 1L of finished product.
 The limitation on my system seems to be about 91L (24 gal) and is 
probably the volume limit of my pump, a 1" Clearwater pump.
 I still quality test each batch, not just to be sure of the fuel, but 
as a maintenance test for the processor and the materials being used. Is my 
recovered methanol pure enough? (If I use the first 4 gal I recover, the BD 
passes the quality test. When I use the first 6 gallons, little buggers show 
up in the methanol sol. test).
 Slow and methodical pays off.
 Best of luck.
 Let me know how it goes,
Tom

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!


> Hi Tom
>
> Thanks for the reply
>
> I see your point- I scaled up from 40l (with a different processor)
> to 150l and I should have gone slower. I was just so keen to get
> going! My newly built pump and processor will handle 150l- but where
> do you think I should start? Should I scale right back to 50l and
> work up slowly or could I start at around 80l?
>
> Charles
>
> On 16/06/2006, at 12:44 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>
>> Charles,
>>  Originally you wrote:
>> "I have just scaled up to a 150l processor . "
>> "I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as
>> I go.
>> Unfortunately, my first couple of big
>> batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well"
>>
>>  At what point did you start having problems?
>>  In other words how did you progress? (25L?  50L?  etc.)
>> leading up to
>> 150L.
>>  I would suggest that you learn and then perform quality tests
>> described
>> at JTF (in addition to the "wash test") as you scale up. Checking
>> to see if
>> the BD is soluble in methanol (JTF: "Quality Testing") is as easy as
>> performing the "wash test". Pass or fail, use the methanol from the
>> test in
>> your next batch.
>>   Using quality tests on my BD as I scaled up allowed me to
>> tweak the
>> process (volume of WVO, temp, time).
>> The limit for my processor seems to be about 91L.
>>
>>  Following misinformation from another group, I scaled up to 130L
>> batches, only to find out, after learning about quality testing at
>> JTF, that
>> I was NOT making quality fuel.
>> My batches passed the "wash test", but failed upon reprocessing
>> (1L), and
>> also failed the methanol solubility test.
>>  This poor quality fuel (incomplete reactions) had been poured
>> into my
>> into my heating oil tank  ---> roughly 30% BD : 70% petro. While I
>> was away
>> the burner failed to start. Fuel had "leaked" out onto the floor. The
>> service tech told my wife that the nozzle had some "crap" on it  >
>> sputtering fuel that dribbled out onto the floor. The electrodes
>> also had
>> some coking.
>>  I suspect that poor quality fuel can be burned in a boiler,
>> but may
>> need preheating and pump pressure  increased. I had to replace the
>> nozzle
>> twice more as well as clean the electrodes, while adding only
>> quality BD to
>> the tank. After using good BD I had no problems w. a 30% blend, w/o
>> any
>> modifications to the burner.
>>  I now use 100% biodiesel to heat my house and to heat water.
>> At about
>> 50 - 60% BD I had some start-up problems, corrected by increasing pump
>> pressure, nozzle change, and decreasing air flow.
>>
>>  I've never tried to reprocess a BD-petro blend.
>>
>>   Best of luck,
>>  Tom
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wed

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-15 Thread Charles List
Hi Tom

Thanks for the reply

I see your point- I scaled up from 40l (with a different processor)  
to 150l and I should have gone slower. I was just so keen to get  
going! My newly built pump and processor will handle 150l- but where  
do you think I should start? Should I scale right back to 50l and  
work up slowly or could I start at around 80l?

Charles

On 16/06/2006, at 12:44 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:

> Charles,
>  Originally you wrote:
> "I have just scaled up to a 150l processor . "
> "I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as  
> I go.
> Unfortunately, my first couple of big
> batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well"
>
>  At what point did you start having problems?
>  In other words how did you progress? (25L?  50L?  etc.)  
> leading up to
> 150L.
>  I would suggest that you learn and then perform quality tests  
> described
> at JTF (in addition to the "wash test") as you scale up. Checking  
> to see if
> the BD is soluble in methanol (JTF: "Quality Testing") is as easy as
> performing the "wash test". Pass or fail, use the methanol from the  
> test in
> your next batch.
>   Using quality tests on my BD as I scaled up allowed me to  
> tweak the
> process (volume of WVO, temp, time).
> The limit for my processor seems to be about 91L.
>
>  Following misinformation from another group, I scaled up to 130L
> batches, only to find out, after learning about quality testing at  
> JTF, that
> I was NOT making quality fuel.
> My batches passed the "wash test", but failed upon reprocessing  
> (1L), and
> also failed the methanol solubility test.
>  This poor quality fuel (incomplete reactions) had been poured  
> into my
> into my heating oil tank  ---> roughly 30% BD : 70% petro. While I  
> was away
> the burner failed to start. Fuel had "leaked" out onto the floor. The
> service tech told my wife that the nozzle had some "crap" on it  >
> sputtering fuel that dribbled out onto the floor. The electrodes  
> also had
> some coking.
>  I suspect that poor quality fuel can be burned in a boiler,  
> but may
> need preheating and pump pressure  increased. I had to replace the  
> nozzle
> twice more as well as clean the electrodes, while adding only  
> quality BD to
> the tank. After using good BD I had no problems w. a 30% blend, w/o  
> any
> modifications to the burner.
>  I now use 100% biodiesel to heat my house and to heat water.  
> At about
> 50 - 60% BD I had some start-up problems, corrected by increasing pump
> pressure, nozzle change, and decreasing air flow.
>
>  I've never tried to reprocess a BD-petro blend.
>
>   Best of luck,
>  Tom
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!
>
>
>> Hi again
>>
>> Unfortunately no-one has answered my last post- have I found an
>> insurmountable problem?!
>>
>> Going back a few steps and trying to figure out what's going on, I've
>> done some more 1l batches on the original WVO I used in my process,
>> using 9.5g of 90% KOH I got three layers- lovely bio for the top 1/2
>> (which passed the wash test and burnt fine), then some original oil
>> unreacted, then some glycerine. Using 10.8g KOH I got very dark "bio"
>> on top, which passes the wash test but doesn't burn, then glycerine
>> at the bottom (looks like the right amount), but no oil un-reacted! I
>> have trawled the archives but I can't seem to find anything that will
>> help. I realise that I have some incomplete reactions happening but
>> I am confused by the continually different results.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> On 13/06/2006, at 8:30 AM, Charles List wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I have just scaled up to a 150l processor. I am using a 200l drum  
>>> and
>>> have an old swimming pool pump that pumps at 1l per second- which
>>> seems pretty speedy! I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up
>>> slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big
>>> batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well, I am happy
>>> with my titrations and measurements but  I realise that my
>>> temperature control has not been too good as the thermostat on my  
>>> old
>>> spa-pool element heater had too wide a differential and was letting
>>> the mixture

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-15 Thread Thomas Kelly
Charles,
 Originally you wrote:
"I have just scaled up to a 150l processor . "
"I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up slowly, learning as I go. 
Unfortunately, my first couple of big
batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well"

 At what point did you start having problems?
 In other words how did you progress? (25L?  50L?  etc.) leading up to 
150L.
 I would suggest that you learn and then perform quality tests described 
at JTF (in addition to the "wash test") as you scale up. Checking to see if 
the BD is soluble in methanol (JTF: "Quality Testing") is as easy as 
performing the "wash test". Pass or fail, use the methanol from the test in 
your next batch.
  Using quality tests on my BD as I scaled up allowed me to tweak the 
process (volume of WVO, temp, time).
The limit for my processor seems to be about 91L.

 Following misinformation from another group, I scaled up to 130L 
batches, only to find out, after learning about quality testing at JTF, that 
I was NOT making quality fuel.
My batches passed the "wash test", but failed upon reprocessing (1L), and 
also failed the methanol solubility test.
 This poor quality fuel (incomplete reactions) had been poured into my 
into my heating oil tank  ---> roughly 30% BD : 70% petro. While I was away 
the burner failed to start. Fuel had "leaked" out onto the floor. The 
service tech told my wife that the nozzle had some "crap" on it  > 
sputtering fuel that dribbled out onto the floor. The electrodes also had 
some coking.
 I suspect that poor quality fuel can be burned in a boiler, but may 
need preheating and pump pressure  increased. I had to replace the nozzle 
twice more as well as clean the electrodes, while adding only quality BD to 
the tank. After using good BD I had no problems w. a 30% blend, w/o any 
modifications to the burner.
 I now use 100% biodiesel to heat my house and to heat water. At about 
50 - 60% BD I had some start-up problems, corrected by increasing pump 
pressure, nozzle change, and decreasing air flow.

 I've never tried to reprocess a BD-petro blend.

  Best of luck,
 Tom


- Original Message - 
From: "Charles List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!


> Hi again
>
> Unfortunately no-one has answered my last post- have I found an
> insurmountable problem?!
>
> Going back a few steps and trying to figure out what's going on, I've
> done some more 1l batches on the original WVO I used in my process,
> using 9.5g of 90% KOH I got three layers- lovely bio for the top 1/2
> (which passed the wash test and burnt fine), then some original oil
> unreacted, then some glycerine. Using 10.8g KOH I got very dark "bio"
> on top, which passes the wash test but doesn't burn, then glycerine
> at the bottom (looks like the right amount), but no oil un-reacted! I
> have trawled the archives but I can't seem to find anything that will
> help. I realise that I have some incomplete reactions happening but
> I am confused by the continually different results.
>
> Charles
>
>
> On 13/06/2006, at 8:30 AM, Charles List wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I have just scaled up to a 150l processor. I am using a 200l drum and
>> have an old swimming pool pump that pumps at 1l per second- which
>> seems pretty speedy! I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up
>> slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big
>> batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well, I am happy
>> with my titrations and measurements but  I realise that my
>> temperature control has not been too good as the thermostat on my old
>> spa-pool element heater had too wide a differential and was letting
>> the mixture fall to 45degrees C before coming on again.
>>
>> My problem is this- my first batch came out very dark brown- almost
>> black- but it passed the wash test, so, confused, I washed it, dried
>> it and it was a very clear, dark brown. As it is now winter down here
>> in NZ and the snow is falling, and I only had 50l of petro-diesel
>> left in my boiler tank, I chucked 50l of my black "biodiesel" in.
>> Against my better judgement, but  I didn't know what to do! Almost
>> immediately my boiler stopped, leaking black fuel on the floor. So- I
>> drained my tank and tried a 1l batch test on the petro/bio mixture to
>> see what would happen.  I used 150ml methanol and 5.8g 85% KOH as my
>> base amount on my test batch. Unfortunately nothing happened, 12
>> hours later, no separation, no split, no more glycerine! Has th

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed!

2006-06-14 Thread Charles List
Hi again

Unfortunately no-one has answered my last post- have I found an  
insurmountable problem?!

Going back a few steps and trying to figure out what's going on, I've  
done some more 1l batches on the original WVO I used in my process,  
using 9.5g of 90% KOH I got three layers- lovely bio for the top 1/2  
(which passed the wash test and burnt fine), then some original oil  
unreacted, then some glycerine. Using 10.8g KOH I got very dark "bio"  
on top, which passes the wash test but doesn't burn, then glycerine  
at the bottom (looks like the right amount), but no oil un-reacted! I  
have trawled the archives but I can't seem to find anything that will  
help. I realise that I have some incomplete reactions happening but   
I am confused by the continually different results.

Charles


On 13/06/2006, at 8:30 AM, Charles List wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I have just scaled up to a 150l processor. I am using a 200l drum and
> have an old swimming pool pump that pumps at 1l per second- which
> seems pretty speedy! I have done as suggested on JtF and scaled up
> slowly, learning as I go. Unfortunately, my first couple of big
> batches (using creamy canola oil) have not gone so well, I am happy
> with my titrations and measurements but  I realise that my
> temperature control has not been too good as the thermostat on my old
> spa-pool element heater had too wide a differential and was letting
> the mixture fall to 45degrees C before coming on again.
>
> My problem is this- my first batch came out very dark brown- almost
> black- but it passed the wash test, so, confused, I washed it, dried
> it and it was a very clear, dark brown. As it is now winter down here
> in NZ and the snow is falling, and I only had 50l of petro-diesel
> left in my boiler tank, I chucked 50l of my black "biodiesel" in.
> Against my better judgement, but  I didn't know what to do! Almost
> immediately my boiler stopped, leaking black fuel on the floor. So- I
> drained my tank and tried a 1l batch test on the petro/bio mixture to
> see what would happen.  I used 150ml methanol and 5.8g 85% KOH as my
> base amount on my test batch. Unfortunately nothing happened, 12
> hours later, no separation, no split, no more glycerine! Has the
> petrodiesel stuffed it up?  What can I do?
>
> Charles List
>
> --
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-14 Thread Doug Foskey
Actually, the web tools, & web servers are one of Linux's strengths. Google is 
the largest network of Linux computers in the world.

 Servers, & Internet are Linux domains. The desktop is currently its 
(perceived) weakness. The reality is completely different (ie Linux is great 
on the desktop: how many systems can have over 100 web pages open at once,  
still perform reasonably well, & not ever crash.)
 I really abhor working on that other OS at work!

regards Doug 

On Tuesday 13 June 2006 4:24, Keith Addison wrote:
> Hi Mike Weaver
>
> I know OSX is UNIX, but it took Apple four or five years after
> release for the "tweaking" to produce a really good OS. And I still
> don't use OSX, though I'm being forced in that direction, but who
> needs an entire software upgrade/replacement? I'll install OSX in the
> end and mostly run OS9 with it, for a long time to come I expect.
>  From what I've seen of such things I wouldn't be too happy about
> entrusting the JtF site to a GoLive that's been tweaked for Linux, or
> not until it was as solid as say Mailman.
>
> Anyway, the original argument falls away, if OSX is UNIX anyway, then
> why use Linux? That "human face" is of a grown-up, not a kid, and
> whether it's UNIX or OS9 it saves me a a large amount of
> non-negotiable time. Either way I'd still have this current graphics
> conversion problem.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
> >Actually, Mac OSX is really just UNIX, in the form of tweaked FreeBSD.
> >All the Adobe stuff would run on Linux as well as they run on OSX, but
> >Adobe (I suspect due the the not so gentle prodding of
> >MS and perhaps Apple) has chosen not too release Linux versions.
> >
> >Anyting that runs on OSX would run on Linux with very little work,
> >probably just a recompile...
> >
> >OSX is *nix with a human face
> >
> >Keith Addison wrote:
> > >Wotcha Weaver
> > >
> > >>Linux.
> > >
> > >I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be
> > >awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as
> > >easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux
> > >freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in
> > >competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's
> > >only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze).
> > >Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with
> > >software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll
> > >probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's
> > >half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast
> > >without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you
> > >keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like
> > >computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works
> > >either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss
> > >about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister!
> > >LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that
> > >Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page
> > >website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much
> > >better that it's worth the move.
> > >
> > >Best
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >>Keith Addison wrote:
> > Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...
> > 
> > >>>:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.
> > >>>:
> > this
> > converter is Windoz sw.
> > Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
> > 
> > Chandan
> > >>>
> > >>>Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too,
> > >>>as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a
> > >>>Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the
> > >>>graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.
> > >>>
> > >>>Thanks again, all best
> > >>>
> > >>>Keith
> > >>>
> > Chandan Haldar wrote:
> > >Keith,
> > >
> > >You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
> > >http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
> > >which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
> > >pdf formats.
> > >
> > >As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find
> > > a visio
> > >file to try it out.
> > >
> > >Cheers.
> > >
> > >Chandan
> > >
> > >Keith Addison wrote:
> > >>Hello all
> > >>
> > >>Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract
> > >> them. He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but
> > >> they may convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff
> > >> out of Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to
> > >> get tiff's or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them
> > >> the file?
> > >>
> > >>Thanks much
> > >>
> > >>Keith
>
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> Biofuel@sustainablelists.o

Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-13 Thread chem.dd
Nemetschek which makes Vectorworks has a free viewer for engineering
drawings you can view and print drawings but not edit them.
www.nemetschek.net  they are very Mac friendly.
David Sikes
- Original Message - 
From: "Chandan Haldar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics


> Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...  this
> converter is Windoz sw.
> Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
>
> Chandan
>
>
> Chandan Haldar wrote:
> > Keith,
> >
> > You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
> > http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
> > which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
> > pdf formats.
> >
> > As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
> > visio
> > file to try it out.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Chandan
> >
> >
> > Keith Addison wrote:
> >> Hello all
> >>
> >> Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
> >> He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
> >> convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
> >> Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
> >> or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
> >>
> >> Thanks much
> >>
> >> Keith
> >
>
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>
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messages):
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>


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-12 Thread Mike Weaver
It's getting hard to keep the old OS9 stuff running as they don't 
release anything new for it.  I have some
programs running in emulation mode - poky but works - the more memory 
the better.

I run an old 400 mhz G4 w/ SCSI and 2 GB on the board.  Not blazing but 
I like it.

Ugly enough I have Windoze on a laptop - my business it's hard to make a 
living w/o knowing Windows.
I use Linux for almost all my servers - only a few Windows2003 boxes and 
that's because the clients have
programs that execute on the server.

I'm very much headed into the open source movement - trying to use as 
much open source software as possible.

I think Apple just did a better job of making *nix friendly than the 
Gnome or KDE interface.  It's getting better, though.

-Mike

Keith Addison wrote:

>Hi Mike Weaver
>
>I know OSX is UNIX, but it took Apple four or five years after 
>release for the "tweaking" to produce a really good OS. And I still 
>don't use OSX, though I'm being forced in that direction, but who 
>needs an entire software upgrade/replacement? I'll install OSX in the 
>end and mostly run OS9 with it, for a long time to come I expect. 
> From what I've seen of such things I wouldn't be too happy about 
>entrusting the JtF site to a GoLive that's been tweaked for Linux, or 
>not until it was as solid as say Mailman.
>
>Anyway, the original argument falls away, if OSX is UNIX anyway, then 
>why use Linux? That "human face" is of a grown-up, not a kid, and 
>whether it's UNIX or OS9 it saves me a a large amount of 
>non-negotiable time. Either way I'd still have this current graphics 
>conversion problem.
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>  
>
>>Actually, Mac OSX is really just UNIX, in the form of tweaked FreeBSD.
>>All the Adobe stuff would run on Linux as well as they run on OSX, but
>>Adobe (I suspect due the the not so gentle prodding of
>>MS and perhaps Apple) has chosen not too release Linux versions.
>>
>>Anyting that runs on OSX would run on Linux with very little work,
>>probably just a recompile...
>>
>>OSX is *nix with a human face
>>
>>Keith Addison wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Wotcha Weaver
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Linux.




>>>I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be
>>>awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as
>>>easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux
>>>freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in
>>>competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's
>>>only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze).
>>>Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with
>>>software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll
>>>probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's
>>>half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast
>>>without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you
>>>keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like
>>>computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works
>>>either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss
>>>about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister!
>>>LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that
>>>Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page
>>>website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much
>>>better that it's worth the move.
>>>
>>>Best
>>>
>>>Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Keith Addison wrote:





>>Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>>this
>>converter is Windoz sw.
>>Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
>>
>>Chandan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too,
>as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a
>Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the
>graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.
>
>Thanks again, all best
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>>Chandan Haldar wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Keith,
>>>
>>>You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
>>>http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
>>>which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
>>>pdf formats.
>>>
>>>As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
>>>visio
>>>file to try it out.
>>>
>>>Cheers.
>>>
>>>Chandan
>>>
>>>
>>>Keith Addison wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Hello all

Someo

Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-12 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Doug

>Keith,
> I have to agree with you that Linux is possibly not yet for every desktop.
>
> I have used Linux for 6 years now. It has a tremendous support network (much
>better than its commercial competitors.) There are some jobs that are handled
>differently to the M$ product, & unfortunately it is a learning curve.
>However, the problems I find moving from one version of M$ Word for instance,
>is no more than I find learning about a Linux package!

I can imagine. But I don't use that comparison, especially not since 
Word 6 allegedly for Mac. Word 5 was a good program but 6 was a mess, 
just a half-assed makeover of the Windoze version, everybody dumped 
it. Learning curve yes, but it wasn't worth learning.

> I personally use Mepis Linux, which I find has everything most people require
>all on one CD. There are other distributions equally as good.
>
> The thing that has surprised me is that the myriad of Virii, Trojans, and
>other malicious software that seems to attack M$ products, has not rung alarm
>bells with the average consumer, and made them investigate alternatives.

Sixty million infected Windows computers and the owners haven't got a 
clue. But then a lot of them haven't figured out how to copy and 
paste yet, let alone what a patch is. Windows isn't intuitive, people 
don't learn by doing, and I think that might have done more harm than 
the viruses have.

>I
>think this will happen.

I hope you're right.

>I am already seeing friends who have no interest in
>computers, now firing up a live Linux distribution to browse on the web, and
>read emails. This tends to minimise the risk of a virus afflicting the M$
>system living on the harddrive.
>
> Macs now use BSD as their operating system. BSD is similar to Linux (and to
>other Unix's.)

Hence my hope that they might learn to talk to each other at some stage.

>Can any Mac users tell me if there are Mac viruses now? With
>the security of BSD I would doubt it.

Oh, there are, we keep hearing about it, only it's hard to find one. 
I haven't seen one for 15 years. I think if someone does actually 
manage to capture one and their existence is thus proved it should 
probably be put on the CITES list like the yeti. Mac viruses are 
supposed to come with MS macros, for Excel I think, maybe for Word 
too. Well, you can see how vague I am about it.

>regards Doug (a linux die-hard)

Maybe I'll be joining you one of these days.

All best

Keith


>On Monday 12 June 2006 5:59, Keith Addison wrote:
> > Wotcha Weaver
> >
> > >Linux.
> >
> > I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be
> > awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as
> > easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux
> > freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in
> > competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's
> > only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze).
> > Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with
> > software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll
> > probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's
> > half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast
> > without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you
> > keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like
> > computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works
> > either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss
> > about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister!
> > LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that
> > Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page
> > website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much
> > better that it's worth the move.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > >Keith Addison wrote:
> > > >>Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...
> > > >>
> > > >:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.
> > > >:
> > > >>this
> > > >>converter is Windoz sw.
> > > >>Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
> > > >>
> > > >>Chandan
> > > >
> > > >Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too,
> > > >as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a
> > > >Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the
> > > >graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks again, all best
> > > >
> > > >Keith
> > > >
> > > >>Chandan Haldar wrote:
> > > >>>Keith,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
> > > >>>http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
> > > >>>which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
> > > >>>pdf formats.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
> > > >>>visio
> > > >>>file to try it out.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Cheers.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Chandan

Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-12 Thread Keith Addison
Hi Mike Weaver

I know OSX is UNIX, but it took Apple four or five years after 
release for the "tweaking" to produce a really good OS. And I still 
don't use OSX, though I'm being forced in that direction, but who 
needs an entire software upgrade/replacement? I'll install OSX in the 
end and mostly run OS9 with it, for a long time to come I expect. 
 From what I've seen of such things I wouldn't be too happy about 
entrusting the JtF site to a GoLive that's been tweaked for Linux, or 
not until it was as solid as say Mailman.

Anyway, the original argument falls away, if OSX is UNIX anyway, then 
why use Linux? That "human face" is of a grown-up, not a kid, and 
whether it's UNIX or OS9 it saves me a a large amount of 
non-negotiable time. Either way I'd still have this current graphics 
conversion problem.

Best

Keith

>Actually, Mac OSX is really just UNIX, in the form of tweaked FreeBSD.
>All the Adobe stuff would run on Linux as well as they run on OSX, but
>Adobe (I suspect due the the not so gentle prodding of
>MS and perhaps Apple) has chosen not too release Linux versions.
>
>Anyting that runs on OSX would run on Linux with very little work,
>probably just a recompile...
>
>OSX is *nix with a human face
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >Wotcha Weaver
> >
> >
> >
> >>Linux.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be
> >awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as
> >easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux
> >freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in
> >competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's
> >only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze).
> >Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with
> >software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll
> >probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's
> >half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast
> >without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you
> >keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like
> >computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works
> >either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss
> >about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister!
> >LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that
> >Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page
> >website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much
> >better that it's worth the move.
> >
> >Best
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Keith Addison wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> this
> converter is Windoz sw.
> Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
> 
> Chandan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too,
> >>>as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a
> >>>Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the
> >>>graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks again, all best
> >>>
> >>>Keith
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> Chandan Haldar wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >Keith,
> >
> >You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
> >http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
> >which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
> >pdf formats.
> >
> >As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
> >visio
> >file to try it out.
> >
> >Cheers.
> >
> >Chandan
> >
> >
> >Keith Addison wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hello all
> >>
> >>Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
> >>He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
> >>convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
> >>Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
> >>or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
> >>
> >>Thanks much
> >>
> >>Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-12 Thread Mike Weaver
Actually, Mac OSX is really just UNIX, in the form of tweaked FreeBSD.
All the Adobe stuff would run on Linux as well as they run on OSX, but 
Adobe (I suspect due the the not so gentle prodding of
MS and perhaps Apple) has chosen not too release Linux versions. 

Anyting that runs on OSX would run on Linux with very little work, 
probably just a recompile...

OSX is *nix with a human face

Keith Addison wrote:

>Wotcha Weaver
>
>  
>
>>Linux.
>>
>>
>
>I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be 
>awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as 
>easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux 
>freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in 
>competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's 
>only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). 
>Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with 
>software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll 
>probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's 
>half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast 
>without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you 
>keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like 
>computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works 
>either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss 
>about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! 
>LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that 
>Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page 
>website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much 
>better that it's worth the move.
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
>  
>
>>Keith Addison wrote:
>>
>>
>>
Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...




>>>:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
this
converter is Windoz sw.
Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.

Chandan




>>>Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too,
>>>as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a
>>>Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the
>>>graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.
>>>
>>>Thanks again, all best
>>>
>>>Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
Chandan Haldar wrote:




>Keith,
>
>You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
>http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
>which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
>pdf formats.
>
>As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
>visio
>file to try it out.
>
>Cheers.
>
>Chandan
>
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
>
>  
>
>>Hello all
>>
>>Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
>>He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
>>convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
>>Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
>>or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
>>
>>Thanks much
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-12 Thread Doug Foskey
Keith,
 I have to agree with you that Linux is possibly not yet for every desktop.

 I have used Linux for 6 years now. It has a tremendous support network (much 
better than its commercial competitors.) There are some jobs that are handled 
differently to the M$ product, & unfortunately it is a learning curve. 
However, the problems I find moving from one version of M$ Word for instance, 
is no more than I find learning about a Linux package!

 I personally use Mepis Linux, which I find has everything most people require 
all on one CD. There are other distributions equally as good.

 The thing that has surprised me is that the myriad of Virii, Trojans, and 
other malicious software that seems to attack M$ products, has not rung alarm 
bells with the average consumer, and made them investigate alternatives. I 
think this will happen. I am already seeing friends who have no interest in 
computers, now firing up a live Linux distribution to browse on the web, and 
read emails. This tends to minimise the risk of a virus afflicting the M$ 
system living on the harddrive.

 Macs now use BSD as their operating system. BSD is similar to Linux (and to 
other Unix's.) Can any Mac users tell me if there are Mac viruses now? With 
the security of BSD I would doubt it.

regards Doug (a linux die-hard)

On Monday 12 June 2006 5:59, Keith Addison wrote:
> Wotcha Weaver
>
> >Linux.
>
> I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be
> awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as
> easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux
> freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in
> competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's
> only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze).
> Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with
> software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll
> probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's
> half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast
> without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you
> keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like
> computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works
> either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss
> about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister!
> LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that
> Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page
> website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much
> better that it's worth the move.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
> >Keith Addison wrote:
> > >>Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...
> > >>
> > >:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.
> > >:
> > >>this
> > >>converter is Windoz sw.
> > >>Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
> > >>
> > >>Chandan
> > >
> > >Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too,
> > >as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a
> > >Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the
> > >graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.
> > >
> > >Thanks again, all best
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >>Chandan Haldar wrote:
> > >>>Keith,
> > >>>
> > >>>You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
> > >>>http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
> > >>>which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
> > >>>pdf formats.
> > >>>
> > >>>As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
> > >>>visio
> > >>>file to try it out.
> > >>>
> > >>>Cheers.
> > >>>
> > >>>Chandan
> > >>>
> > >>>Keith Addison wrote:
> > Hello all
> > 
> > Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
> > He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
> > convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
> > Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
> > or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
> > 
> > Thanks much
> > 
> > Keith
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-12 Thread Keith Addison
Wotcha Weaver

>Linux.

I don't think so Mike. Macs are highly developed, I think it'll be 
awhile before I could do with Linux what I do with a Mac, and as 
easily and quickly. I'm sure I'll get arguments from the Linux 
freaks, but I'm on your side, I don't think Macs and Linux are in 
competition. IMHO the Linux user base just isn't big enough yet, it's 
only a fifth as big as Macs (which is hugely outnumbered by Windoze). 
Put an interface on it that's the equal of OSX, or even OS8, with 
software to match, or with software that can migrate, and I'll 
probably do Linux too. Right now you still have to be a geek, it's 
half-baked. IMHO. Tell me again when I can just do the work fast 
without having to think about what the computer might prefer so you 
keep tripping over the damn' thing. Linux for people who don't like 
computers, and don't really want to know exactly how the fridge works 
either just as long as it keeps stuff cold without making a fuss 
about it. Speed the day. (No that doesn't mean I want a FuelMeister! 
LOL!) If I'm wrong about it, hooray, but then please confirm that 
Linux can do GoLive, or any equivalent that can handle a 1000-page 
website as fast and seamlessly. Then it'll have to get that much 
better that it's worth the move.

Best

Keith


>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >>Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.
> >
> >
> >
> >>this
> >>converter is Windoz sw.
> >>Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
> >>
> >>Chandan
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too,
> >as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a
> >Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the
> >graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.
> >
> >Thanks again, all best
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Chandan Haldar wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Keith,
> >>>
> >>>You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
> >>>http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
> >>>which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
> >>>pdf formats.
> >>>
> >>>As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
> >>>visio
> >>>file to try it out.
> >>>
> >>>Cheers.
> >>>
> >>>Chandan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Keith Addison wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> Hello all
> 
> Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
> He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
> convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
> Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
> or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
> 
> Thanks much
> 
> Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-11 Thread Mike Weaver
Linux.

Keith Addison wrote:

>>Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...
>>
>>
>
>:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.
>
>  
>
>>this
>>converter is Windoz sw.
>>Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
>>
>>Chandan
>>
>>
>
>Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, 
>as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a 
>Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the 
>graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.
>
>Thanks again, all best
>
>Keith
>
>
>  
>
>>Chandan Haldar wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Keith,
>>>
>>>You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
>>>http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
>>>which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
>>>pdf formats.
>>>
>>>As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
>>>visio
>>>file to try it out.
>>>
>>>Cheers.
>>>
>>>Chandan
>>>
>>>
>>>Keith Addison wrote:
>>>  
>>>
Hello all

Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?

Thanks much

Keith


>
>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-11 Thread Keith Addison
Hi Hakan

>Keith,
>
>Send me a sample, I have an old version of visio somewhere, before I
>substituted if for smartdraw. I have a go and if smartdraw will take
>them, I can convert them to another format.

Thankyou Hakan, if it's not too much trouble. It looks like something 
useful for us all.

I'll send it now offlist.

Regards

Keith



>Hakan
>
>At 10:38 11/06/2006, you wrote:
> >Hello all
> >
> >Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
> >He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
> >convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
> >Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
> >or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
> >
> >Thanks much
> >
> >Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-11 Thread Keith Addison
>Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...

:-) My innocence of things MS is but a small sacrifice.

>this
>converter is Windoz sw.
>Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.
>
>Chandan

Thankyou Chandan, I'll send it right now. I'll send it to Hakan too, 
as he has an old version of visio itself. It's a new design for a 
Turk burner, but I can't follow the text description without the 
graphics. If it works as claimed I'll upload it.

Thanks again, all best

Keith


>Chandan Haldar wrote:
> > Keith,
> >
> > You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
> > http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
> > which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
> > pdf formats.
> >
> > As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a
> > visio
> > file to try it out.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Chandan
> >
> >
> > Keith Addison wrote:
> >> Hello all
> >>
> >> Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
> >> He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
> >> convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
> >> Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
> >> or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
> >>
> >> Thanks much
> >>
> >> Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-11 Thread Hakan Falk

Keith,

Send me a sample, I have an old version of visio somewhere, before I 
substituted if for smartdraw. I have a go and if smartdraw will take 
them, I can convert them to another format.

Hakan

At 10:38 11/06/2006, you wrote:
>Hello all
>
>Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them.
>He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may
>convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of
>Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's
>or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
>
>Thanks much
>
>Keith
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-11 Thread Chandan Haldar
Uh-oh... sorry, I didn't notice the mac part in your mail...  this 
converter is Windoz sw.
Send me the visio file and I'll have a go at it.

Chandan


Chandan Haldar wrote:
> Keith,
>
> You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
> http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
> which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
> pdf formats.
>
> As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a 
> visio
> file to try it out.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Chandan
>
>
> Keith Addison wrote:
>> Hello all
>>
>> Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. 
>> He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may 
>> convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of 
>> Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's 
>> or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
>>
>> Thanks much
>>
>> Keith
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Help with graphics

2006-06-11 Thread Chandan Haldar
Keith,

You might like to download the 30-day eval copy of this converter:
http://www.processtext.com/abcvisio.html
which converts visio vector graphics drawings to many image or
pdf formats.

As far as I can see, it installs and runs fine, but I couldn't find a visio
file to try it out.

Cheers.

Chandan


Keith Addison wrote:
> Hello all
>
> Someone sent me some interesting diagrams, but I can't extract them. 
> He said: "the diagrams i have are microsoft visio doc.s but they may 
> convert to html." We use Macs and I can usually get stuff out of 
> Windoze docs, but not this time. Would anyone be able to get tiff's 
> or jpg's or gif's out of an MS Visio doc if I sent them the file?
>
> Thanks much
>
> Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] help needed

2006-06-10 Thread bruno




Bob Carr pravi:

  Hi Bruno,
I also have managed to make red diesel using the foolproof  method. The oil 
turned out to be GM soybean oil, very well used. it washed fine and the 
methanol test was fine. So I stuck it in the tank of my ford 
TransitFine
So I would agree totally with Keith, if it washed ok and the methanol test 
was ok, then it most likely is good fuel..
Bob
- Original Message - 
From: "bruno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 10:56 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] help needed


  
  
I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great
succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and
here comes the problem.After usual processing  the oil was red as if it
woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual
amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless
I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for
some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant
owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem
for oil self cleaning.
Any idea,anyone?
Thanks for answer.


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Thanks for the ansver.It took all my scares away:


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Re: [Biofuel] help needed

2006-06-10 Thread Bob Carr
Hi Bruno,
I also have managed to make red diesel using the foolproof  method. The oil 
turned out to be GM soybean oil, very well used. it washed fine and the 
methanol test was fine. So I stuck it in the tank of my ford 
TransitFine
So I would agree totally with Keith, if it washed ok and the methanol test 
was ok, then it most likely is good fuel..
Bob
- Original Message - 
From: "bruno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 10:56 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] help needed


> I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great
> succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and
> here comes the problem.After usual processing  the oil was red as if it
> woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual
> amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless
> I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for
> some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant
> owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem
> for oil self cleaning.
> Any idea,anyone?
> Thanks for answer.
>
>
> ___
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> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 


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Re: [Biofuel] help needed

2006-06-10 Thread bruno




Helo Keith!
Thanks for your ansver.In these parts oil is usually sunflover or
rapeseed  or maybe a bit of soyabean oil.

Keith Addison pravi:

  
I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great
succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and
here comes the problem.After usual processing  the oil was red as if it
woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual
amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless
I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for
some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant
owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem
for oil self cleaning.
Any idea,anyone?
Thanks for answer.

  
  
Hi Bruno

What kind of oil is it? The red colour could have more to do with the 
oil than with the processing. If the wash test and methanol test are 
okay then the biodiesel should be okay too.

Best

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] help needed

2006-06-09 Thread Keith Addison
>I''m using foolprof process for about half of year with great
>succes.Recently I've got oil from diferent restaurant than usual and
>here comes the problem.After usual processing  the oil was red as if it
>woud have full of glicerine in it.The glicerine did settled in usual
>amount (cca115 ml) and the wash test went throu normally.Nevertheless
>I've put in aditional methanol and lie and reprocess the oil.Eksept for
>some soap formation nothing happened.The BD stayed red.The restaurant
>owner told me,that he uses mashine for french fries that has the sistem
>for oil self cleaning.
>Any idea,anyone?
>Thanks for answer.

Hi Bruno

What kind of oil is it? The red colour could have more to do with the 
oil than with the processing. If the wash test and methanol test are 
okay then the biodiesel should be okay too.

Best

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] HELP

2006-05-11 Thread Alex Mashego
hi guy 
thank you so much for the info it really helped, and about
the web chemfinder, thats a very helpful site, i really
appriciate tohave friends like you. 

thank you  once more

alex
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Re: [Biofuel] HELP

2006-05-10 Thread Mike McGinness
Alex,

Try Perry's Chemical Engineers Handbook, by Perry & Green, in the reference
section of the library.

Mike McGinness

Alex Mashego wrote:

> hi guys
>
> i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to
> cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the
> chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you
> help me in this regard.
>
> thank you
> regards Alex
> ___
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>
> http://www.webmail.co.za the South African FREE email service
>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] HELP

2006-05-10 Thread Ryan Pope

try

http:\\www.chemfinder.com






From: "Alex Mashego" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] HELP
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 09:32:48 +0200

hi guys

i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to
cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the
chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you
help me in this regard.

thank you
regards Alex
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http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



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Re: [Biofuel] HELP

2006-05-10 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alex Mashego wrote:
> hi guys
> 
> i need help, i have a task to design a heat exchanger to
> cool 78% sulphuric acid, but i cant seem to find the
> chemical and physical properties any where, can any if you
> help me in this regard.
> 
> thank you 
> regards Alex

Alex,

I just did a Google search for sulphuric acid and found several
sites with the info you are looking for.  I cut and pasted one
listing below if you don't have access to the web.

Glenn.

Sulphuric Acid
A molecule of Sulphuric Acid, H2SO4, consists of two atoms of hydrogen, 
one atom of sulphur and four atoms of oxygen

Sulphuric acid is a colourless viscous corrosive oily liquid, which has

 * Melting Point : 10.3 degC
 * Boiling Point : 338 degC
 * Formula weight 98.08
 * Specific gravity or density 1.94
 * Flash point none

Sulphuric acid is the strong acid produced by dissolving sulphur 
trioxide in water.


SO3 +   H2O ==> H2SO4

The Strength of Acids is determined by the degree to which they are 
ionised in aqueous solution.
For example, Sulphuric Acid, H2SO4, which is a strong acid is fully 
dissociated, and all the displaceable hydrogen in the acid is present in 
solution as Hydrogen Ion, H(+).

H2SO4   ==>   H(+)   +   SO4
 100% as H(+)   

In contrast, the weak acids ethanoic acid, CH3COOH, is partially ionised 
in solution, and only approximately 5% of the displaceable Hydrogen in 
the acid is present in solution as hydrogen ion, H(+).

CH3COOH   ==>   H(+)   +   CH3COO(-)
5% as H(+)

Properties of Sulphuric Acid

 * Sulphuric acid is a powerful protonating agent.
 * It is also a moderately strong oxidizing agent.
 * Sulphuric acid is also a powerful dehydrating agent and is used 
to remove a molecule of water from many organic compounds.
 * In dilute solution, sulphuric acid is a strong dibasic acid 
forming two series of salts.

A Dibasic Acid has two acidic hydrogen atoms in its molecules which can 
be ionised. Sulphuric Acid, H2SO4, is a dibasic acid, because it 
contains two hydrogens atoms which ionise in aqueous solution to become 
Hydrogen Ions, H(+).


H2SO4==>2 H(+)+SO4(2 -)

Sulphuric acid is an important industrial chemical and it has many uses 
as a strong oxidising agent and a powerful dehydrating agent.

Commercially available sulphuric acid is as a 96-98% solution of the 
acid in water.

It is a powerful protonating agent.

It is also a powerful dehydrating agent and is used to remove a molecule 
of Water, HO2, from many organic compounds.

The Dehydration Reactions of Alcohols results in their converted into an 
alkene, and involves the elimination of a molecule of water. Dehydration 
requires the presence of an acid and the application of heat.

Preparation of Sulphuric Acid

Combustion of Sulphur

When a small amount of Sulphur, S, is kindled on a deflagrating spoon, 
it burns with a bright blue flame when introduced into a gas jar 
containing Oxygen, O2. A gas, Sulphur Dioxide, SO2, is the main product 
of the combustion. However, a little Sulphur Trioxide, SO3, is also 
formed, which makes the gas slightly cloudy.


S   +   O2   ==>SO2 
   Sulphur Dioxide  

2S   +  3O2   ==>   2SO3
   Sulphur Trioxide 

When shaken with water, the products of combustion dissolve, forming an 
acidic solution which turns litmus red.



SO2   +   H2O   ==> H2SO3   
Sulphur Sulphurous  
Dioxide Acid

SO2   +   H2O   ==>   H2SO4 
Sulphur Sulphuric   
TrioxideAcid

Manufacture of Sulphuric Acid

Sulphuric acid was manufactured by the lead-chamber process until the 
mid-1930s, but this process has now been replaced by the contact 
process, involving the catalytic oxidation of sulphur dioxide.

Properties of Sulphuric Acid
The Contact Process is used for manufacturing sulphuric acid and fuming 
sulphuric acid from sulphur dioxide, which is made by burning sulphur or 
by roasting sulphide ores and oxygen (in the form of air) which combine 
to form sulphur trioxide in the presence of a catalyst. The reaction is 
exothermic and the conditions are controlled to keep the temperature at 
450 degC. The catalyst used is valadium oxide (V2O5). The sulphur 
trioxide is dissolved in sulphuric acid to form fuming sulphuric acid, 
this is called oleum.


S(s)+   O2(g)   ==> SO2(g)
Sulphur
 Dioxide

2SO2(g) +   O2(g)   ==> 2SO3(g) 
Sulphur 
Trioxide

SO3(g)  +   H2SO4(l)==> 

Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.

2006-04-18 Thread Mike Weaver
You can make one too - just use a piece of wood and two screws - then 
pop the seal, and slooowly turn the bung...

Chris Tan wrote:

>Thanks everyone. I probably need a bung plug wrench which I don't have
>an idea of. I 'll go research on the net.
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver
>Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:49 AM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.
>
>Do you have a bung plug wrench?
>
>Chris Tan wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Greetings Everyone,
>>
>>Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum
>>full of methanol? It's my first time.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Chris
>>
>>
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>rg
>  
>
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>>
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>>
>>
>messages):
>  
>
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.

2006-04-17 Thread Chris Tan
Thanks everyone. I probably need a bung plug wrench which I don't have
an idea of. I 'll go research on the net.

Thanks,
Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:49 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.

Do you have a bung plug wrench?

Chris Tan wrote:

>Greetings Everyone,
>
>Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum
>full of methanol? It's my first time.
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>
>
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>  
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.

2006-04-17 Thread Sean Chadwell
Hey, everyone:

I'll be bringing home my first drum of methanol (I've been buying it
expensively in 5-gallon pails until now) in the next week or so. As I
live where it gets--and stays--very hot (though the methanol will be
stored in the shade, the temperature is well above 100F for most of the
summer here), I was planning to vent the drum with a spring-assisted
check valve. 
Any thoughts about why that would or wouldn't work? 

Thanks,

Sean
On 4/16/06, Mike McGinness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chris,Good question and good thinking!Make sure it is cool, and not standing out in the sun building up pressure. Ifthe drum is left outdoors in direct sunlight it can heat up and the internalpressure can get dangerously high. If the top is bowed outwards it may be under
pressure, if the lid is concave or if you can flex the lid by putting your bodyweight on it (try pushing down on it with your hands) then it is probably OK, orat least not under a lot of pressure.If it is under pressure (just be safe and assume it is!) you need to loosen the
bung (one of the threaded plugs on top) very slowly until you hear some gasventing. While you are loosening it stay out of the way just in case the plugblows out (usually straight up) from the internal pressure. The pressure will
relieve itself through the loose threads. It may take a while (several minutes)to relieve all the pressure, just take it slow and easy.Be safe,Mike McGinnessChris Tan wrote:> Greetings Everyone,
>> Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum> full of methanol? It's my first time.>> Thanks,> Chris>> ___
> Biofuel mailing list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
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Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.

2006-04-17 Thread Mike Weaver
Do you have a bung plug wrench?

Chris Tan wrote:

>Greetings Everyone,
>
>Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum
>full of methanol? It's my first time.
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>
>
>___
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>  
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.

2006-04-17 Thread Mike McGinness
Chris,

Good question and good thinking!

Make sure it is cool, and not standing out in the sun building up pressure. If
the drum is left outdoors in direct sunlight it can heat up and the internal
pressure can get dangerously high. If the top is bowed outwards it may be under
pressure, if the lid is concave or if you can flex the lid by putting your body
weight on it (try pushing down on it with your hands) then it is probably OK, or
at least not under a lot of pressure.

If it is under pressure (just be safe and assume it is!) you need to loosen the
bung (one of the threaded plugs on top) very slowly until you hear some gas
venting. While you are loosening it stay out of the way just in case the plug
blows out (usually straight up) from the internal pressure. The pressure will
relieve itself through the loose threads. It may take a while (several minutes)
to relieve all the pressure, just take it slow and easy.

Be safe,

Mike McGinness

Chris Tan wrote:

> Greetings Everyone,
>
> Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum
> full of methanol? It's my first time.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.

2006-04-16 Thread Ken Chua
Chris,

First, stay away from any open fire or very hot
objects(particularly metals).

Second, Open the small cap first slowly to allow the
air pressure to equalize.

and lastly open the big cap.

As much as possible keep the caps on as moisture would
easily accumulate in the methanol.

Some companies use faucets attached to the heads and
have the drums tilt, the get from the faucets
minimizing moisture contact.

Regards
Ken Chua

--- Chris Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Greetings Everyone,
> 
> Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed
> 55gal steel drum
> full of methanol? It's my first time.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: [Biofuel] Help needed.

2006-04-16 Thread Chris Tan

Greetings Everyone,

Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum
full of methanol? It's my first time.

Thanks,
Chris


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Re: [Biofuel] help

2006-02-08 Thread bob allen
Howdy Joe,

Joe Street wrote:
> Hey Bob;
> 
> Thanks for the info.  I assume this is for virgin oil.  What do you 
> suppose happens after the oil sits in a deep fryer for a few days at 
> high temperature.  I know the free fatty acid content increases and 
> there is an obvious darkening and the inclusion of particulate matter.  


also you will get mono and diglycerides, and water,

> What do you suppose is the overall effect on density? 

anybody's guess, it is multicomponent mixture, and not even homogeneous.

  As I posted
> previously I tried to measure it and got about 0.92 and this seems high 
> according to your information especially since I was a few degrees above 
> the 15 deg C temperature that the hydrometer 
right

(hygrometer? sp?)

measures water vapor in air

  was
> calibrated for.  Could this explain the discrepancy?
> 
> Joe
> 
> bob allen wrote:
>> google canola density:
>>
>> http://www.canola-council.org/Chemical1-6/Chemical1-6_1.html
>>
>> The relative density of canola oil was first reported by Ackman and Eaton in 
>> 1977 and later 
>> confirmed by Vadke et al. (1988) and Lang et al. (1992). Noureddini et al. 
>> (1992) reported a density 
>> for high erucic acid rapeseed oil of 0.9073 g/cm3  while Appelqvist & Ohlson 
>> (1972) reported a range 
>> from 0.906 g/cm3  to 0.914 g/cm3.  Ackman and Eaton (1977) indicated that a 
>> different proportion of 
>> eicosenoic (C20:1) and C18 polyunsaturated acids could be a major factor for 
>> the increase in 
>> relative density of canola oil. The higher specific gravity of 0.9193 g/cm3  
>> observed for soybean 
>> oil can be attributed to the higher content of linoleic acid (Ackman and 
>> Eaton,  1977). As for other 
>> liquids,  the density of vegetable oils is temperature dependent and 
>> decreases in value when 
>> temperature increases
>>
>>
>>
>> R Heron wrote:
>>   
>>> Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying 
>>> what most of you have to offer.
>>> Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as 
>>> long as its .00 actuate.
>>> Russel
>>>
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>>>
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>>> messages):
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>>> 
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] help

2006-02-08 Thread Joe Street




Hey Bob;

Thanks for the info.  I assume this is for virgin oil.  What do you
suppose happens after the oil sits in a deep fryer for a few days at
high temperature.  I know the free fatty acid content increases and
there is an obvious darkening and the inclusion of particulate matter. 
What do you suppose is the overall effect on density?  As I posted
previously I tried to measure it and got about 0.92 and this seems high
according to your information especially since I was a few degrees
above the 15 deg C temperature that the hydrometer (hygrometer? sp?)
was calibrated for.  Could this explain the discrepancy?

Joe

bob allen wrote:

  google canola density:

http://www.canola-council.org/Chemical1-6/Chemical1-6_1.html

The relative density of canola oil was first reported by Ackman and Eaton in 1977 and later 
confirmed by Vadke et al. (1988) and Lang et al. (1992). Noureddini et al. (1992) reported a density 
for high erucic acid rapeseed oil of 0.9073 g/cm3  while Appelqvist & Ohlson (1972) reported a range 
from 0.906 g/cm3  to 0.914 g/cm3.  Ackman and Eaton (1977) indicated that a different proportion of 
eicosenoic (C20:1) and C18 polyunsaturated acids could be a major factor for the increase in 
relative density of canola oil. The higher specific gravity of 0.9193 g/cm3  observed for soybean 
oil can be attributed to the higher content of linoleic acid (Ackman and Eaton,  1977). As for other 
liquids,  the density of vegetable oils is temperature dependent and decreases in value when 
temperature increases



R Heron wrote:
  
  
Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying 
what most of you have to offer.
Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as 
long as its .00 actuate.
Russel

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006

  
  

  



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Re: [Biofuel] help

2006-02-07 Thread bob allen
google canola density:

http://www.canola-council.org/Chemical1-6/Chemical1-6_1.html

The relative density of canola oil was first reported by Ackman and Eaton in 
1977 and later 
confirmed by Vadke et al. (1988) and Lang et al. (1992). Noureddini et al. 
(1992) reported a density 
for high erucic acid rapeseed oil of 0.9073 g/cm3  while Appelqvist & Ohlson 
(1972) reported a range 
from 0.906 g/cm3  to 0.914 g/cm3.  Ackman and Eaton (1977) indicated that a 
different proportion of 
eicosenoic (C20:1) and C18 polyunsaturated acids could be a major factor for 
the increase in 
relative density of canola oil. The higher specific gravity of 0.9193 g/cm3  
observed for soybean 
oil can be attributed to the higher content of linoleic acid (Ackman and Eaton, 
 1977). As for other 
liquids,  the density of vegetable oils is temperature dependent and decreases 
in value when 
temperature increases



R Heron wrote:
> Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but I can say I am enjoying 
> what most of you have to offer.
> Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola oil is? any size measure as 
> long as its .00 actuate.
> Russel
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/252 - Release Date: 2/6/2006


-- 
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"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] help

2006-02-07 Thread R Heron



Thanks Joe
Theoretical is .914 to .917 at 20 
deg.C
so .92 at 18 deg. C is very close.
Appreciate the help
Russel

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Joe Street 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:01 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] help
  Mine has a specific gravity of about 0.92 but I don't think I 
  was at 15 degrees C when I measured it.  Probably more like 18 
  deg.JoeR Heron wrote:
  



Hi every body this my first post to biofuel but 
I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer.
Can anyone tell me what the weight of canola 
oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate.
Russel___
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Re: [Biofuel] help

2006-02-07 Thread Joe Street




Mine has a specific gravity of about 0.92 but I don't think I was at 15
degrees C when I measured it.  Probably more like 18 deg.

Joe

R Heron wrote:

  
  
  
  Hi every body this my first post to
biofuel but I can say I am enjoying what most of you have to offer.
  Can anyone tell me what the weight
of canola oil is? any size measure as long as its .00 actuate.
  Russel
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Re: [Biofuel] Help, my world is going nuke!

2006-01-17 Thread Keith Addison
Hi Bob

>Hi Keith,
>  Here in the clean and green where hydro, wind, thermal and
>tidal energy options are coming out of our ears the nuclear crazies have
>suddenly resurfaced. They look sane, they even wear suits and ties, carry
>laptops and talk in full sentences. Among other things they've launched a
>media campaign to rethink a New Zealand decision of many years ago to ban
>the use of nuclear energy, including the admission of nuclear-powered ships
>to our waters.

So I noticed. :-(

New Zealand's obviously after building a WMD, we'd better nuke them 
while there's still time, would that help? LOL!

What's mainly brought the nuke lobby staggering zombie-like back into 
current affairs is the quaint idea that nuclear power is green 
because it doesn't use fossil fuels, no carbon emissions so it won't 
wreck the climate. Todd shot all that down here a while ago.

>They seek the construction of a nuclear power station, slap bang in an urban
>area in an island nine by seven housing more than half our population. Their
>bona fides are impeccable (top academics, energy consultants, corporate
>heads etc) and their arguments smoothly plausible. They will win eventually
>unless opposed with better and more persuasive argument.
>Years ago I fought a five-year campaign against a nuclear powerstation in
>South Africa and lost.

I think that young feller Peter Ravenscroft was involved in that too. 
I wasn't in Cape Town at that time.

>That was before Chernobyl.

Early 70s.

>The chickens of cost are
>only now coming coming home to roost for the South African idiocy.

But they wanted their bomb, them and Israel and Taiwan.

>Shortly
>the aging plant near Cape Town - built on the coast of what was once
>described as the fairest Cape in all the earth - will have to be mothballed.

Not just on the coast, on that particular stretch of coast at Melkbos 
yet, a special place. But I guess most of the Peninsula's a special 
place.

>Apart from the fact that such a process will suck up billions of dollars
>best used to eradicate poverty in a needy continent, it will when finally
>decommissioned remain forever a target for terrorism and an excrescence on
>the face of the planet.

That's also a special place.

>During its lifetime it produced electricity at twice the cost of alternate
>fuels. It also provided weapons material for the regime.

About par for their course, the true costs are hidden, the 
environmental and other costs externalised.

>I'd hate to see it happen again, here in what Kipling called "last,
>loneliest and loveliest" of lands. But I'm getting too long in the tooth now
>to do the research though I'm happy to fire the bullets.
>A disk crash wiped my archives,

Shudder! Sorry about that.

>including some useful material you sent from
>JTF. Canst please repeat the favour or perhaps point me to suitable sources?

Not easily. It wasn't from JTF, I believe it was onlist, but I didn't 
find it. I did a quick search and I found a lot of things, probably 
including what you're looking for, but no way to know. There's a 
large amount of good material on nuclear power in the list archives 
(including contributions from you), it's often been discussed. I 
think all the debunkings are there. If I wanted to research it that's 
where I'd start. But searching for "nuclear" won't do, there's too 
much material, you need better keywords. But I'm sure you have them.

>If anyone else has anything to add in terms of solid, well-sourced and
>dependable anti-nuclear energy background material I'd be most grateful.

Try the archives. There are people here who know a lot about nuclear 
power, if you need more specific info I'm sure they'd help.

Regards

Keith



>Regards,
>Bob.


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Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)

2005-08-25 Thread Keith Addison
>Hello there Keith and how are things? Listen I was wondering if 
>maybe you might know of anybody in Yucca Valley,Ca or Palm Springs 
>area

Me? I live in Japan. Anyway, you don't need anyone to hold your hand, 
most biodieselers didn't have, and very many of them had very much 
less information to work with than you do. Including me.

>that is involved in making their own bio-diesel. Like I have been 
>saying I don't have the brain power to try this on my own

Oh dear! Now there's a self-fulfilling prophecy if ever I heard one. 
You've said it so often you've convinced yourself. If you just know 
it's true you'll make it true even if it's not. And it certainly is 
not.

Let's put it this way: if you have the capability to use your 
computer to find this mailing list, join it, and post a message to 
it, you have the capability to make biodiesel too, without killing 
yourself or blowing up the neighbourhood. Yes, it's that easy. Yes, 
there's a lot to learn, but you do it step by step, and you can be 
making fuel from the start.

>but if there was such a person close to me I could get some help.

You can get help here and at the JtF website. You've already had 
help, but you're too frightened to jump in. And that is your only 
real problem, IMHO.

Like I said before, Start here:
"Where do I start?"
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start

Keep going.

If you have difficulties, ask.

Best wishes

Keith


>Please see what you can do. Thanks and God Bless, Donald
>
>
>
>
>God Bless, Donald Lyon
>
>
>From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)
>Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:54:01 +0900
> >Hello Gary, welcome
> >
> > >Hey Michael
> > >
> > >Would like some help also if you have the time. Any advice on the
> > >best way to get started?
> >
> >Start here:
> >"Where do I start?"
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start
> >
> >Keep going.
> >
> >If you have problems, check the list archives and/or ask.
> >
> >Best wishes
> >
> >Keith
> >
> >
> >
> > >Thanks
> > >
> > >Gary
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > >>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
> > >>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:37:21 -0400
> > >>
> > >>Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama.
> > >>
> > >>I would be happy to work with you. I have been making biodiesel for
> > >>almost 3 years now.
> > >>
> > >>I look forward to hearing from you.
> > >>
> > >>Cheers!
> > >>
> > >>Michael Lendzian
> > >>CINS Network Support Team
> > >>Columbus State University
> > >>CINS/Center for Commerce & Technology Room 105
> > >>706.569.3044 (help desk)
> > >>
> > >>- Original Message -
> > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:22 pm
> > >>Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject)
> > >>
> > >> > I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area
> > >> > that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the
> > >> > process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL,
> > >> > if anyone is available.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> > Hunter


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Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)

2005-08-25 Thread don lyon
Hello there Keith and how are things? Listen I was wondering if maybe you might know of anybody in Yucca Valley,Ca or Palm Springs area that is involved in making their own bio-diesel. Like I have been saying I don't have the brain power to try this on my own but if there was such a person close to me I could get some help. Please see what you can do. Thanks and God Bless, Donald 
God Bless, Donald Lyon 


From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:54:01 +0900>Hello Gary, welcome>> >Hey Michael> >> >Would like some help also if you have the time. Any advice on the> >best way to get started?>>Start here:>"Where do I start?">http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start>>Keep going.>>If you have problems, check the list archives and/or ask.>>Best wishes>>Keith>>>> >Thanks> >> >Gary> >> >> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)> >>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:37:21 -0400> >>> >>Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama.> >>> >>I would be happy to work with you. I have been making biodiesel for> >>almost 3 years now.> >>> >>I look forward to hearing from you.> >>> >>Cheers!> >>> >>Michael Lendzian> >>CINS Network Support Team> >>Columbus State University> >>CINS/Center for Commerce & Technology Room 105> >>706.569.3044 (help desk)> >>> >>- Original Message -> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Date: Tuesday, August 
23, 2005 7:22 pm> >>Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject)> >>> >> > I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area> >> > that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the> >> > process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL,> >> > if anyone is available.> >> >> >> > Thanks,> >> > Hunter>>>___>Biofuel mailing list>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>


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Re: [Biofuel] help getting started - was Re: (no subject)

2005-08-24 Thread Keith Addison
Hello Gary, welcome

>Hey Michael
>
>Would like some help also if you have the time.  Any advice on the 
>best way to get started?

Start here:
"Where do I start?"
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start

Keep going.

If you have problems, check the list archives and/or ask.

Best wishes

Keith



>Thanks
>
>Gary
>
>
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
>>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:37:21 -0400
>>
>>Hi, I live in Seale, Alabama.
>>
>>I would be happy to work with you.  I have been making biodiesel for
>>almost 3 years now.
>>
>>I look forward to hearing from you.
>>
>>Cheers!
>>
>>Michael Lendzian
>>CINS Network Support Team
>>Columbus State University
>>CINS/Center for Commerce & Technology Room 105
>>706.569.3044 (help desk)
>>
>>- Original Message -
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:22 pm
>>Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject)
>>
>> > I am looking for someone in Alabama, preferably Birmingham area
>> > that is making bio fuel that would be willing to show me the
>> > process and equipment used. I will also drive to TN, GA, MS, N-FL,
>> > if anyone is available.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Hunter


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Re: [Biofuel] Help!

2005-07-08 Thread Keith Addison

Greetings to you bio-fuelers,


Greetings J., welcome,

I am new to this list serve and signed up hoping to find some 
advice.  I recently heard the end of the NPR (National Public Radio) 
program that featured Mike Pelly.


The full sound file is linked from this previous message:
http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 
5-June/000897.html

[Biofuel] Mike Pelly on National Public

Or:
http://snipurl.com/g4b9

Through that program I became VERY interested in biodiesel.  I have 
been doing some reading on the net and I now have some questions for 
you all.  Here they are:
1) Where can I learn first hand the "how to's" in preparing SVO and 
Used Vegetable Oil as a diesel fuel to be used in a vehicle.  Are 
there workshops out there somewhere?  I live in NE Iowa.   I have 
read the step-by-step directions on the net, but I would still like 
to witness this procedure so that I can feel comfortable with it.


There are various workshops, you can probably find out about them 
here, some good some not so good. Most biodieselers learn on their 
own, most of them aren't chemists or engineers. When we started all 
we could find was 13 not very clear paragraphs on the Internet, and 
many others can say something similar. Now there's great information 
available, all you need to know and more, and forums like this one 
where more experienced people are happy to help you along. Just do 
it, do it right.


2) I would like to buy a small diesel-burning pick-up that gets good 
gas mileage and can burn SVO.   Any suggestions? 


Stay away from Stanadyne or Lucas-CAV injector pumps.

3) Since I am not a mechanic, where can I get VERY CLEAR information 
on what needs to be done to my diesel vehicle so that it can burn 
SVO?


Have a look at these recent messages, check the whole thread starting here:
http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 
5-June/thread.html#750


Or:
http://snipurl.com/g4bp

Or here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg51618.html
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel

The rest of the thread is linked at the end of the page.

We're upgrading the SVO pages at the Journey to Forever website, 
it'll take a few days and there'll be more information then, 
meanwhile it's worth a look anyway:


http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html
Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever



I would appreciate any help you could give me regarding my questions.

Gratefully,

J. Schwab



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Re: [Biofuel] Help needed - batch with clear 'soap'?

2005-04-12 Thread Keith Addison



I made a batch over the weekend from a source of oil that was 
semi-solid when I collected it. It had the highest titration I have 
found so far (4.7g/L NaOH); processed using 5 + 4.7 -> 9.7g/L NaOH 
(methanol process).


Why are you using 5gm as the basic amount? Well, we all know where 
that comes from - the world centre of bad information on biodiesel. 
Take no notice of it, it's junk, like very much else there. See:


The basic lye quantity -- 3.5 grams?
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye3.5

"This is the amount of lye (NaOH, sodium hydroxide) required as 
catalyst to transesterify 1 liter of virgin, uncooked oil. For used 
oils, titration determines the amount of lye needed to neutralize the 
Free Fatty Acid (FFA) content, and this quantity is added to the 
basic figure of 3.5 grams per liter.


"In fact 3.5 grams is an empirical measure -- an average. Different 
oils have slightly different requirements, and even the same type of 
oil varies according to how and where it's grown. Other estimates are 
3.1 gm, 3.4 gm, and some people have set it as high as 5 gm.


"Here is what we've found. For most virgin oils and low-FFA used oils 
(with titration levels less than 2-3 ml), 3.5 grams works just fine. 
For high-FFA used oils, use more lye -- up to about 4.5 gm instead of 
3.5 gm. Do small test batches to see what works best.


"Different oils also require different amounts of methanol -- see How 
much methanol? For oils and fats requiring more methanol -- coconut, 
palm kernel, as well as tallow, lard, butter -- again, use more lye, 
up to 4.5 gm, even with new oils, and especially when it's used. Once 
again, do small test batches first."


A titration reading of 4.7ml is not that high (we've had 10.6ml! - 
and used it), you don't need to use so much lye.


For the rest, can't really say because you don't provide any 
information on how you processed it. It seems you didn't dewater the 
oil. How did you mix the methoxide? How long did you agitate it, and 
at what temperature?


By the way, that the oil was semi-solid when you go it doesn't have 
much to do with the titration level. It could have been hydrogenated 
or accumulated a lot of lard or tallow  in the cooking.


The result gave a very heavy/gel glycerine layer. The result that 
has been standing in air has formed some gelly-like, almost clear 
solid suspended in the BioD.


Have you tried heating it? What happens?

Animal fat biodiesel can gel at 10-15 deg C (50-60F). If that's what 
it is, it should wash okay, if you made it properly. Nothing wrong 
with the fuel, just keep it for the warm weather.


Best wishes

Keith




I have just finished washing a 15L tester, and it seems to be coming up fine.

A sample that I have left in the air for a day has formed an almost 
clear gel, retaining the shape of the beaker when I tip it. It is 
floating in what looks like 'normal' BioD.


However - I want to understand what this is and the possible causes, 
and the ramifications of using the BioD.


Hypotheses:
---
1) High water content in the source oil - hence this stuff is a form 
of soap (glop soap?)

2) Something I do not know about

If it is soap, can I hope to remove it using washing alone? Once it 
starts congealing, is this washing likely to work?


I am going to do some further experiments (ie. washing) to see what 
happens, but I would be grateful for the benefit of others 
experience dealing with this - new experience.


This is my seventh 30L batch and the first time I have seen 
something like this.


Thanks in anticipation. Can provide photos if that would help with 
the diagnosis.


Cheers
  Don


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Re: [Biofuel] Help a greenhorn

2005-04-09 Thread Keith Addison




Guys,

I am very green in making biodiesel.
I am trying to put together the parts that I need to make it.


Start here:
"Where do I start?"
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start

Familiarise yourself with the process first by making small test 
batches before you start thinking of building processors.



I would like to know:
1) what filter if available I should use to separate the water from the WVO ?


Don't use a filter. See:

Biodiesel from waste oil
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo

2nd and 3rd paragraphs.


2) what type of pH meter should I use to determine the pH before and after the
wash ?


Get the best one you can afford, pocket or handheld. Try eBay, if you 
like, but I wouldn't buy a used one.


pH testing
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#pH

pH meters are also better for titration than phenolpthalein (don't 
use phenol red) and test papers, in my experience. You have to learn 
how to use it, how to calibrate it, and how to look after it. There 
are good FAQs linked at the pH url above.


Good luck!

Keith



Thanks,
Paul


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Re: [Biofuel] Help a greenhorn

2005-04-08 Thread Derick Giorchino

i have found plastic mixing cones on line at macmaster carr.com a very good
1'' pump at harbor freaght the measuring equipment and drumb band heater at
mcmaster the scale was from the local office supply  in oz or grams
and on ebay i found a old soda syrup container made of s.s. for methoxide no
contact needed. yet i still have not   had  a sucsessful test batch.
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Help about biodiesel??

2005-01-28 Thread Phillip Wolfe

Dear UL - What part of Ireland are you planning your
study...the whole of Ireland or around Dublin?  I had
a chance to visit Dublin. We met the Mayor and City
Manager of Dublin for our International MBA course.
The City Manager discussed the traffic issues and the
new tunnel that will extend underground to the high
tech industrial park near Dublin.  We stayed near the
central park and later visited Apple Computer, and the
Guiness plant.  I studied the petroleum
sector...Statoil, BP, Texaco, Totalfina Chevron, etc.

You find much help on the Journey to Forever Website
by doing search words in the JTF search engine.

--- "ULStudent:Mark.O'Neill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I am researching a project on biodiesel in Ireland.
> What I am looking at is
> identifing what needs to be done (fiscal
> incentives,grants, research 
> support, financial support etc..) to develop the
> market for biodiesel in 
> Ireland, with particular reference to rapeseed,
> using the experience of
> other countries to make my case. If anyone could be
> of any help at all I
> would really appreciate it. 
> 
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RE: [Biofuel] Help about biodiesel??

2005-01-27 Thread Peggy

Hello Mark,

In the United States vehicles classified by fuel types may be researched
in new sales records and sometimes through registration requirements.
Also, it is possible for research assistants that staff small business
centers run by universities or governments to assist you and guide a
person in their research efforts.  These services are usually free.  And
now I am hearing about organizations that perform these studies as
"feasibility groups" for a fee and I would imagine that they utilize
similar resources and share their results with their networked
associates.  You might consider first your local government records,
then a regional area, and then a national estimate of several reported
areas to find out how many vehicles can use your projected product.
(And please also consider if this report may be "colored" to suit the
needs of the person making the report.")

Questions you may have could be as follows:
1.  How many vehicles are registered in my area that could use my
product?
2.  Is there a historical record of this product being used?
3.  What are the sales projections for a new industry that plans to use
a compatible technology and that can use my product?
4.  What inexpensive or "free" sources of motivation and awareness are
available for the introduction of my product?  (i.e. newspaper articles,
flyers posted at strategic locations, radio news, community fairs,
tradeshows, etc.)
5.  Where can I find resources for producing my product (physical and
feedstock)?  Consider alternatives to various feedstock and local
agricultural reciprocity.  Rural economic development can be greatly
impacted for your particular area.  Ultimately the project should
favorable impact the growers as well and make good sense for
environmental concerns on every level from dropping the seed in the
ground to conserving fuel use.
6.  Is it more reasonable to build my own facility from scratch or
should I consider a ready-made system?  (Time, skill, and money being
considered)
7.  How do I intend to distribute my product?  Whole or blended?
Bottled or pumped?  Local or transported?
8.  Do I have access to resources for each level of involvement?  If
not, who does and where are they?  Should I encourage others or simply
look for people with a similar interest or available resources to join
me considering awareness and education potential as well as available
time?
9.  How and where can I network with local people with a similar
interest?  Is it feasible for us to form a cooperative?  How far do we
want to carry the process in production, feedstock generation,
distribution?  And therefore, how large of a group will we need to make
an impact locally, regionally, nationally, and globally.  (Keep it
simple for your local area once you have learned the basic techniques
and feel comfortable with your production abilities, then you can better
evaluate your time and investment commitment as well as your human
resource need.)
10.  What are my goals?  Once you write out your goals you can write out
the steps needed to fulfill those goals.

Because there are numerous market niches to be addresses and many levels
of cooperation involved, your research will help you write your business
plan outline.  Then it becomes a punch list.  Perhaps you will decide to
simply take care of yourself and grow slowly as friends and neighbors
join in by observing your example.  OR you could start with a larger
picture and shoot for a greater goal.  We will post some of this list in
our newsletters.  You are welcome to contact me as you please and the
biofuels archives has a great deal of information that can help.

Best wishes,
Peggy

Peggy G Korth
BioFuels Energy Corporation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Email

Subject: [Biofuel] Help about biodiesel??

I am researching a project on biodiesel in Ireland. What I am looking at
is
identifing what needs to be done (fiscal incentives,grants, research 
support, financial support etc..) to develop the market for biodiesel in

Ireland, with particular reference to rapeseed, using the experience of
other countries to make my case. If anyone could be of any help at all I
would really appreciate it. 

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RE: [Biofuel] Help with animal fats

2005-01-05 Thread Adenike Adebanjo

thanks a million.
 
Nike

Mccall Tom WP US <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I would think that the water present would slow down the reaction. 

And the presence of Fatty acids that are not converted by transesterification 
but require Fisher (low pH) Esterification would give 
less than expected results.

However, good water removal and Fisher Esterification followed by 
Transesterification should give good results.

Tom

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Help with animal fats


hello everyone,

Please I need to know why tranesterification to biodiesel is not so efficient 
with animal fats such as tallow and lard.

Regards

Nike



Anti-Fossil wrote:
Hello John,

I'm not sure how "southern" you are in Ontario, but I live in southern
Minnesota, and had the same results from my garden that you mentioned. For
us, it was a combination of the first half, to two-thirds of the growing
season being too cool, with the latter half to one-third being almost a
complete wash-out. Our temps did finally "normalize", but by the time they
did even our muskrats were looking for higher ground! Really pushed our
farmers back as well, good thing winter came late.

AntiFossil
Mike Krafka
Minnesota USA

*
"If you think you are too small to make a
difference try sleeping with a mosquito."
Dalai Lama
*


- Original Message - 
From: "John Mullan" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Seeds


> Sorry, I don't have any recommendations for you. But I did want to
mention
> that I use normal store bought pre-sprouted plants every year. This year
I
> had horrible time with my veggies. Tomatoes especially took it hard this
> year. Looked diseased. Sweet green and hot peppers did fine. String
beans
> did OK. Even onions faired poorly. I can't figure out what actually
> happend. I live in Southern Ontario.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of robert luis rabello
> Sent: January 3, 2005 1:44 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Biofuel] Seeds
>
>
> Hello everyone!
>
> My sweetheart and I have been planning our garden for this year.
> Last year's vegetables were, by far, the most successful we have ever
> managed; a fact particularly heartening when the poor condition of our
> soil is considered. (We're still eating fresh carrots, which we have
> left in the ground. Even in January, they are sweet and firm!)
>
> We'd used old seed. Our corn was especially pathetic. Tomatoes (the
> texture of which I liken to biting a human lip) stayed green until the
> rain arrived in October, then simply rotted. (This was a shame
> because my eldest son is particularly fond of them.) Squash, peas,
> purple beans, beets, potatoes, pumpkins, radishes and carrots did
> exceedingly well. Our broccoli was very late, but especially
> delicious. Cabbage did well for the first part of the summer, then
> the weather turned REALLY hot and the heads tended to split.
>
> Aside from the pumpkins, (which were fine grained and sweet) fruit
> didn't fare very well. Melons and cantaloupe never really developed.
> Our fruit trees are weak, but I'm working on that. . .
>
> We want to use fresh seed this year. Do any of you have any
> recommendations for cool, west coast climate vegetables? We would
> prefer a seed distributor located in western Canada or the United States.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
> robert luis rabello
> "The Edge of Justice"
> Adventure for Your Mind
> http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782>
>
> Ranger Supercharger Project Page
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>
>
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RE: [Biofuel] Help with animal fats

2005-01-05 Thread Mccall Tom WP US



I would think that the water present would slow down the reaction.  

And the presence of Fatty acids that are not converted by transesterification 
but require Fisher (low pH) Esterification would give 
less than expected results.

However, good water removal and Fisher Esterification followed by 
Transesterification should give good results.

Tom

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Help with animal fats


hello everyone,
 
Please I need to know why tranesterification to biodiesel is not so efficient 
with animal fats such as tallow and lard.
 
Regards
 
Nike
 


Anti-Fossil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello John,

I'm not sure how "southern" you are in Ontario, but I live in southern
Minnesota, and had the same results from my garden that you mentioned. For
us, it was a combination of the first half, to two-thirds of the growing
season being too cool, with the latter half to one-third being almost a
complete wash-out. Our temps did finally "normalize", but by the time they
did even our muskrats were looking for higher ground! Really pushed our
farmers back as well, good thing winter came late.

AntiFossil
Mike Krafka
Minnesota USA

*
"If you think you are too small to make a
difference try sleeping with a mosquito."
Dalai Lama
*


- Original Message - 
From: "John Mullan" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Seeds


> Sorry, I don't have any recommendations for you. But I did want to
mention
> that I use normal store bought pre-sprouted plants every year. This year
I
> had horrible time with my veggies. Tomatoes especially took it hard this
> year. Looked diseased. Sweet green and hot peppers did fine. String
beans
> did OK. Even onions faired poorly. I can't figure out what actually
> happend. I live in Southern Ontario.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of robert luis rabello
> Sent: January 3, 2005 1:44 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Biofuel] Seeds
>
>
> Hello everyone!
>
> My sweetheart and I have been planning our garden for this year.
> Last year's vegetables were, by far, the most successful we have ever
> managed; a fact particularly heartening when the poor condition of our
> soil is considered. (We're still eating fresh carrots, which we have
> left in the ground. Even in January, they are sweet and firm!)
>
> We'd used old seed. Our corn was especially pathetic. Tomatoes (the
> texture of which I liken to biting a human lip) stayed green until the
> rain arrived in October, then simply rotted. (This was a shame
> because my eldest son is particularly fond of them.) Squash, peas,
> purple beans, beets, potatoes, pumpkins, radishes and carrots did
> exceedingly well. Our broccoli was very late, but especially
> delicious. Cabbage did well for the first part of the summer, then
> the weather turned REALLY hot and the heads tended to split.
>
> Aside from the pumpkins, (which were fine grained and sweet) fruit
> didn't fare very well. Melons and cantaloupe never really developed.
> Our fruit trees are weak, but I'm working on that. . .
>
> We want to use fresh seed this year. Do any of you have any
> recommendations for cool, west coast climate vegetables? We would
> prefer a seed distributor located in western Canada or the United States.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
> robert luis rabello
> "The Edge of Justice"
> Adventure for Your Mind
> http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782>
>
> Ranger Supercharger Project Page
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Help

2004-10-30 Thread Legal Eagle


of the problem(s) is needed. I had trouble too, and the people here were a 
BIG help to me, so no reason they shouldn't be for you too.
There are a few basic factors that could cause the majority of your probs, 
but they have to be tackled one at a time, so lets have 'em.


Luc
- Original Message - 
From: "Gerald Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 3:20 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Help



Wonder if someone in the Northwest (I live in Laconner)  would be kind
enough to be a mentor as am having a devil of a time making a bio-product
(over a dozen attemps,Thanks in advance Gerald

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Re: [Biofuel] Help

2004-10-30 Thread Keith Addison




Wonder if someone in the Northwest (I live in Laconner)  would be kind
enough to be a mentor as am having a devil of a time making a bio-product
(over a dozen attemps,Thanks in advance Gerald


What problems are you having, exactly?

Best wishes

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] HELP

2004-10-10 Thread Steve Spence

yep, that was my "exceptions" remark.

Steve Spence
http://www.green-trust.org
- Original Message - 
From: "Gregg Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] HELP


> Hi Steve,
>
> While you can't use 100% Biodiesel in a gasoline engine, you can mix it up
to a maximum of 15% with the gas. It works great in lawn mower / lawn
tractor engines as well. Same maximum percentage.
>
> Sincerely
> Gregg Davidson
>
> Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The "KB" (solvent strength) of biodiesel is similar to #2 diesel.
>
> Biodiesel smells like French fries, sorta.
>
> No, you can't use Biodiesel in a petrol car (stock answer, exceptions
> rule).
>
> Steve Spence
> www.green-trust.org
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of chih chou
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:58 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Biofuel] HELP
>
> DEAR SIR
> HERE I AM ASKING FOR HELP.
> 1, WHAT IS THE KB VALUE OF BIO-DIESEL?
> 2, WHAT IS BIO-DIESEL SMELL LIKE?
> 3,IF WE MIXED THE BIO-DIESEL WITH UNLEAD PETRO CAN THIS MIXTURE BE USING
> IN ORDINARY PERTOL ENGINE CAR?
> THANKS FOR ANYONE CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION
> BEST REGARDS
> GORVANS
> -- 
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RE: [Biofuel] HELP

2004-10-09 Thread John Mullan

Hi Doug.  Just a quick note to say "Hi" from Niagara Falls.

You are the closest Canadian I've "met" on the lists.

Cheers.
John Mullan
Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: October 8, 2004 10:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] HELP


My guess is  that lawn mower and lawn tractor engines are fairly low
compression and not fussy about fuel. I would not try any amount
of biodiesel in a high performance gasoline engine like a car engine,

For gasoline engines I would think that ethanol blends with gasoline are
much to be preferred.

The fuel requirements of spark-ignition gasoline, and diesel engines, are
entirely different.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Gregg Davidson wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> While you can't use 100% Biodiesel in a gasoline engine, you can mix it up
to a maximum of 15% with the gas. It works great in lawn mower / lawn
tractor engines as well. Same maximum percentage.
>
> Sincerely
> Gregg Davidson
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RE: [Biofuel] HELP

2004-10-09 Thread dwoodard

My guess is  that lawn mower and lawn tractor engines are fairly low
compression and not fussy about fuel. I would not try any amount
of biodiesel in a high performance gasoline engine like a car engine,

For gasoline engines I would think that ethanol blends with gasoline are
much to be preferred.

The fuel requirements of spark-ignition gasoline, and diesel engines, are
entirely different.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Gregg Davidson wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> While you can't use 100% Biodiesel in a gasoline engine, you can mix it up to 
> a maximum of 15% with the gas. It works great in lawn mower / lawn tractor 
> engines as well. Same maximum percentage.
>
> Sincerely
> Gregg Davidson
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RE: [Biofuel] HELP

2004-10-08 Thread Gregg Davidson

Hi Steve,
 
While you can't use 100% Biodiesel in a gasoline engine, you can mix it up to a 
maximum of 15% with the gas. It works great in lawn mower / lawn tractor 
engines as well. Same maximum percentage. 
 
Sincerely
Gregg Davidson

Steve Spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The "KB" (solvent strength) of biodiesel is similar to #2 diesel.

Biodiesel smells like French fries, sorta.

No, you can't use Biodiesel in a petrol car (stock answer, exceptions
rule).

Steve Spence
www.green-trust.org


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of chih chou
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] HELP

DEAR SIR
HERE I AM ASKING FOR HELP.
1, WHAT IS THE KB VALUE OF BIO-DIESEL?
2, WHAT IS BIO-DIESEL SMELL LIKE?
3,IF WE MIXED THE BIO-DIESEL WITH UNLEAD PETRO CAN THIS MIXTURE BE USING
IN ORDINARY PERTOL ENGINE CAR?
THANKS FOR ANYONE CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION
BEST REGARDS
GORVANS
-- 
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Re: [Biofuel] HELP

2004-10-08 Thread sspence

see http://www.unitedsoybean.org/tsmos_pdf/ts7.pdf on typical kb values.

= = = Original message = = =

DEAR SIR
HERE I AM ASKING FOR HELP.
1, WHAT IS THE KB VALUE OF BIO-DIESEL?
2, WHAT IS BIO-DIESEL SMELL LIKE?
3,IF WE MIXED THE BIO-DIESEL WITH UNLEAD PETRO CAN THIS MIXTURE BE USING IN 
ORDINARY PERTOL ENGINE CAR?
THANKS FOR ANYONE CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION
BEST REGARDS
GORVANS
-- 
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RE: [Biofuel] HELP

2004-10-08 Thread Steve Spence


The "KB" (solvent strength) of biodiesel is similar to #2 diesel.

Biodiesel smells like French fries, sorta.

No, you can't use Biodiesel in a petrol car (stock answer, exceptions
rule).

Steve Spence
www.green-trust.org


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of chih chou
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] HELP

DEAR SIR
HERE I AM ASKING FOR HELP.
1, WHAT IS THE KB VALUE OF BIO-DIESEL?
2, WHAT IS BIO-DIESEL SMELL LIKE?
3,IF WE MIXED THE BIO-DIESEL WITH UNLEAD PETRO CAN THIS MIXTURE BE USING
IN ORDINARY PERTOL ENGINE CAR?
THANKS FOR ANYONE CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION
BEST REGARDS
GORVANS
-- 
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Re: [Biofuel] help me

2004-09-19 Thread Neoteric Biofuels Inc



Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) may be another option for you. There is 
information on that as well, at the journey to forever site, as well as 
on our site.


Edward Beggs
http://www.biofuels.ca


On Sep 16, 2004, at 2:35 PM, Joseph Putzer wrote:

use ethanol instead see the journey to foever webpage for more info on 
ethanol


dan hentea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:hy.
My name is Dan and i`m from Bucharest, Romania -that
explains my bad english.
I have a very big problem. I like the idea with
biodiesel, i get all the stuff and ingredients that i
need, but i can`t get methanol.
Why? Because here in Romania took place some accidents
caused by bad handleing and storeing of methanol.
After this accidents the authoryties are asking a lot
of lycences to buy metthanol.
Can you help me with a substitute for methanol, or
with a way of makeing my own methanol?
thank you very much.



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