Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
This truly sucks, but what other useful options are there out there? And especially for us not living in the US? Paypal have, until now, been a great and fast way of paying for things, and I thought it was very safe. But this brings everything into new perspective. I have sent thousands and thousands of dollars in cash overseas in envelopes before, but I really have no intention of going back there again. I would like to leave, but Paypal has got a firm grip on way too many as things are now. /Stefan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 10:05 AM Subject: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan" Note the part about SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION, delivery confirm not enough in some cases. If anyone decides to can paypal let me know, would warm my heart, they should not get away with this crap :)"The transaction(s) did not qualify for Seller Protection because:-You were unable to provide tracking information. For transactions $500 or more in value that are initiated between November 15, 2001 and April 19, 2002, and for transactions $250 or more in value that are initiated on or after April 19, 2002, the seller also needs to provide an online proof-of-receipt in the form of a signature from the buyer. The signature is part of the proof-of-delivery service provided by most U.S. carrier companies, including the U.S. Postal Service. Because comparable proof-of-shipment is not currently available for electronically-delivered items, we are currently unable to offer Seller Protection for digital goods and other electronically-delivered items-Virtual items are not covered under our Seller Protection Policy"TomVisit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
> Stefan Lindblom schrieb: > > This truly sucks, but what other useful options are there out there? > And especially for us not living in the US? Paypal have, until now, > been a great and fast way of paying for things, and I thought it was > very safe. But this brings everything into new perspective. I have > sent thousands and thousands of dollars in cash overseas in envelopes > before, but I really have no intention of going back there again. I > would like to leave, but Paypal has got a firm grip on way too many as > things are now. Correct. Sending large sums of cash in an envelope to remote corners of the earth never leaves me with an easy feeling until the money has arrived and the seller tells me so. And while ago I bought some OMD posters from a guy running a reputed OMD fanpage (OMD = Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, a band from the 80s). I sent him the $20 via PayPal, but my posters never got here. After allowing time to see if they still arrive and then all the forth and back with him (he plainly said no to even sharing the loss) I contacted PayPal about it, only to be told that the complaint needs to be filed within four weeks or something. I replied that would be hard for an international user to fulfill and the reply I got then was, between the lines, "tough luck, dude." So Stefan again is right: Where to go if you leave PayPal? Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
Within the U.S. there is C2IT, which is free, but I think they charge a flat $10 fee for international transactions. I get a lot of one-item buyers from Europe so this is kind of out of the question. I wonder if escrow services have improved any since I first looked at them? I notice the point at which PayPal started to suck seems to be right around when the eBay blob absorbed them. Coincidence? - Original Message - From: "Marco Thorek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 6:19 AM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan" > > Stefan Lindblom schrieb: > > > > This truly sucks, but what other useful options are there out there? > > And especially for us not living in the US? Paypal have, until now, > > been a great and fast way of paying for things, and I thought it was > > very safe. But this brings everything into new perspective. I have > > sent thousands and thousands of dollars in cash overseas in envelopes > > before, but I really have no intention of going back there again. I > > would like to leave, but Paypal has got a firm grip on way too many as > > things are now. > > Correct. Sending large sums of cash in an envelope to remote corners of > the earth never leaves me with an easy feeling until the money has > arrived and the seller tells me so. > > And while ago I bought some OMD posters from a guy running a reputed OMD > fanpage (OMD = Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, a band from the 80s). > I sent him the $20 via PayPal, but my posters never got here. After > allowing time to see if they still arrive and then all the forth and > back with him (he plainly said no to even sharing the loss) I contacted > PayPal about it, only to be told that the complaint needs to be filed > within four weeks or something. I replied that would be hard for an > international user to fulfill and the reply I got then was, between the > lines, "tough luck, dude." > > So Stefan again is right: Where to go if you leave PayPal? > > Marco > > -- > This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to > the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' > Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
In a message dated 07/28/2003 6:19:16 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So Stefan again is right: Where to go if you leave PayPal? Well overseas payment can be a problem, yes. But there are alternatives. I think I am going to start using bidpay to recieve overseas payments. Can only be for auctions but even for private sales I could list "auction" at bidville with buy it now. Then buyer "bids" and uses bidpay. Another screw by paypal with overseas people, recently I had guy in UK signup using my link. We were both supposed to get $5 bonus. BUT paypal says for us to get the bonuses he has to transfer $250 into his paypal acct first. And has to be from bank account. And has to be US bank account. So basically overseas people who want bonus have to open USA bank account. What a load of shit!!! This policy started after EBAY took them over I THINK> Tom Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
"C.E. Forman" schrieb: > > I notice the point at which PayPal started to suck seems to be right around > when the eBay blob absorbed them. Coincidence? Hell, no! They were not really fantastic before that, but it sure is getting even worse now. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
In a message dated 07/28/2003 7:56:48 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BUT paypal says for us to get the bonuses he has to transfer $250 into his paypal acct first. And has to be from bank account. And has to be US bank account. So basically overseas people who want bonus have to open USA bank account. The really stupid thing is even if you are USA customer you could just transfer the $250 into your acct then immediately deposit it again. What is the point? Unless they just want use of your $250 for a week. Buttheads!! Tom Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
I do raise my eyebrows and salute a fellow OMD fan, I thought we were extinct by now :) - Original Message - From: "Marco Thorek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan" > > Stefan Lindblom schrieb: > > > > This truly sucks, but what other useful options are there out there? > > And especially for us not living in the US? Paypal have, until now, > > been a great and fast way of paying for things, and I thought it was > > very safe. But this brings everything into new perspective. I have > > sent thousands and thousands of dollars in cash overseas in envelopes > > before, but I really have no intention of going back there again. I > > would like to leave, but Paypal has got a firm grip on way too many as > > things are now. > > Correct. Sending large sums of cash in an envelope to remote corners of > the earth never leaves me with an easy feeling until the money has > arrived and the seller tells me so. > > And while ago I bought some OMD posters from a guy running a reputed OMD > fanpage (OMD = Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, a band from the 80s). > I sent him the $20 via PayPal, but my posters never got here. After > allowing time to see if they still arrive and then all the forth and > back with him (he plainly said no to even sharing the loss) I contacted > PayPal about it, only to be told that the complaint needs to be filed > within four weeks or something. I replied that would be hard for an > international user to fulfill and the reply I got then was, between the > lines, "tough luck, dude." > > So Stefan again is right: Where to go if you leave PayPal? > > Marco > > -- > This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to > the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' > Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] stated: > >recently I had guy in UK signup using my link. We were both >supposed to get $5 bonus. BUT paypal says for us to get the bonuses he has to >transfer $250 into his paypal acct first. And has to be from bank account. And >has to be US bank account. Paypal's policy for getting the $5 bonus has gotten worse and worse as time goes one. At first, you had to do very little to get it. (Verify your address, I think.) Then you had to add a checking account. Now you've got to add $250. I'm glad I got my $5 when I did, because I wouldn't get it if I signed up now. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
Marco Thorek stated: > >They become trickier on all accounts (literally): I remember back when I >signed up, there was something about them charging $1 to your credit >card and when you received your credit card bill, you had to enter a >code given in the PayPal position to activate your account. > >Back then that dollar was put into your PayPal account balance, now they >apparently keep it. I don't remember them doing that when I signed up. However, when I attached a bank account so I could make electronic withdrawals from PayPal, *they* paid *me* two random amounts between $0.01 and $1.00. I then had to enter those amounts to confirm the account, and got to keep the money. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
Hehe, we forever live and die, don't we? ;-) Marco Stefan Lindblom schrieb: > > I do raise my eyebrows and salute a fellow OMD fan, I thought we were > extinct by now :) > -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
I just found a very neat Register article regarding the "PayPal Money Back Guarantee," which is really worth a read: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31534.html It ends with this paragraph: "This is just one very small story of hundreds dotted all over the Internet. And these stories will continue until either a) the law changes to pull in PayPal and force it to follow the laws and regulations everyone else is subjected to or b) people learn the fine distinction between PayPal and the institutions they instinctively trust." Yup, quite right. Marco [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > > Note the part about SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION, delivery confirm not > enough in some cases. If anyone decides to can paypal let me know, > would warm my heart, they should not get away with this crap :) > > "The transaction(s) did not qualify for Seller Protection because: > > -You were unable to provide tracking information. For transactions > $500 > or more in value that are initiated between November 15, 2001 and > April > 19, 2002, and for transactions $250 or more in value that are > initiated > on or after April 19, 2002, the seller also needs to provide an online > > proof-of-receipt in the form of a signature from the buyer. The > signature is part of the proof-of-delivery service provided by most > U.S. carrier companies, including the U.S. Postal Service. Because > comparable proof-of-shipment is not currently available for > electronically-delivered items, we are currently unable to offer > Seller > Protection for digital goods and other electronically-delivered items > > -Virtual items are not covered under our Seller Protection Policy" > > Tom > > Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of > Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
In a message dated 08/07/2003 1:21:23 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Back then that dollar was put into your PayPal account balance, now they >apparently keep it. I don't remember them doing that when I signed up. They only do that with overseas accts I think. Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
My $0.02... I can't help but noticed that a lot of the auctions I've won lately don't take PayPal. I use BidPay in those cases (whose fees are a little stiff at times but checks are for all intents and purposes like cash. BidPay gives me proof of payment sent so its worth the extra $1 to me). I've also noticed that the auctions that don't take PayPal I tend to win for less than I expected. PayPal's integration w/Ebay is pretty addictive, but my totally unscientific opinion is that that integration has a direct impact on who's willing to bid. As for refusing payment to PayPal, that's probably not the fight you want to take, at least not head-on. In an instant they smash your credit rating, then you have to pay fees plus the amount in dispute to restore it. Businesses constantly check your history (but of course consumers rarely check a business's rating w/the BBB or similar so bashing a business has little effect). Talk about getting the shaft, I'm leaving my apartment (rent keeps going up for no particularly good reason). I have to notify them within 60 days of the lease termination or pay a full month's rent penalty (and of course that month is calculated at the ANNUAL INCREASE RATE that starts the next cycle, not the one you just left). Of course I didn't give 60 days notice (45 days). Despite my extending the lease 60 more days to move to a new place (giving them 90 days to find a new tenant), they're still sticking that to me for 1 month's rent as a penalty for not handing in the form on time. Of course there are reams of contract that I signed to live there that says I agree to pay. The fee is totally outrageous. It should be illegal. But failure to pay brings down a whole world of pain, plus I'll still have to pay the amount outstanding. Refusing to pay is clearly not the move I plan to make (idiot me should have just submitted the form on time). Its just like missing one credit card payment and watching your interest rate go from 8.99% to %25 (no that didn't happen to me). Of course, they also ask nicely to "keep the apartment as clean as possible so they can show it to future tenants". Yeah, I'm all over that one. And tape up my late fee notice on the entrance door "just so I don't forget to pay it". With wallpaper glue. Parting note, as I log onto PayPal, I get more insta-spam from them, including this blurb: PayPal works hard to protect you When you send a money order, it's a lot like putting cash in an envelope - you may have no recourse if the payment is lost or stolen. That's why fraudulent sellers often prefer money orders. In contrast, PayPal provides protections like the Buyer Complaint Process and the Money Back Guarantee. When you buy on eBay, why use a check or money order? Trust PayPal - the fast, easy, and secure way to pay on eBay. Dan On Friday, August 8, 2003, at 10:31 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 08/08/2003 9:14:52 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hope this strategy doesn't backfire on me... It's rough Stuart :( Bidpay is really good for ccard payments if buyer does not mind using them. I don't know what to do myself, the payment I got WAS a bank account transfer and it still didn't do me any good. But you are correct, much more difficult to reverse a bank transfer. Tom Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
In a message dated 08/07/2003 8:33:54 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is just one very small story of hundreds dotted all over the Internet. And these stories will continue until either a) the law changes to pull in PayPal and force it to follow the laws and regulations everyone else is subjected to or b) people learn the fine distinction between PayPal and the institutions they instinctively trust." Well they are now threatening me, if I don't cover the negative balance THEY CREATED by taking my money away they will contact a collection agency. So my perfect credit rating I've created over the years could be damaged. I think I will file a police report against them. You people really want to use a service that would do this to an honest person? Tom Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
RE: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
Tom,
As I
mentioned in a previous post, I am planning on selling a bunch of stuff on Ebay.
In the process, I was trying to decide whether or not to upgrade my Paypal
account so that I can accept credit card payments. I was worried that without
doing so, I would lose some buyers, and I think this is a legitimate concern.
However, your story has given me pause. I have heard a whole bunch more of these
horror stories as well. Therefore, I've decided not to use Paypal to receive
payments except for from a bank account, where the buyer would have much greater
difficulty in disputing the debit.
I hope
this strategy doesn't backfire on me...
Stuart
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 8:59
AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [SWCollect]
Paypal "protection plan"In a message dated 08/07/2003 8:33:54 PM Central Daylight
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This is just one very small story of hundreds dotted all over
theInternet. And these stories will continue until either a) the
lawchanges to pull in PayPal and force it to follow the laws
andregulations everyone else is subjected to or b) people learn the
finedistinction between PayPal and the institutions they
instinctivelytrust."Well they are now threatening
me, if I don't cover the negative balance THEY CREATED by taking my money away
they will contact a collection agency. So my perfect credit rating I've
created over the years could be damaged. I think I will file a police report
against them. You people really want to use a service that would do this to an
honest person?TomVisit my web page for many games for sale/trade
and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima,
Infocom and RPG page
Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice.
It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do
not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale.
CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position
in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such.
Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce ("CIBC"),
it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in
any client accounts
(i) will not be insured by the FDIC,
(ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC,
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Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
They become trickier on all accounts (literally): I remember back when I signed up, there was something about them charging $1 to your credit card and when you received your credit card bill, you had to enter a code given in the PayPal position to activate your account. Back then that dollar was put into your PayPal account balance, now they apparently keep it. Neat, huh? 1000 sign-ups = $1000. Marco "Lee K. Seitz" schrieb: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] stated: > > > > >recently I had guy in UK signup using my link. We were both > >supposed to get $5 bonus. BUT paypal says for us to get the bonuses he has to > >transfer $250 into his paypal acct first. And has to be from bank account. And > >has to be US bank account. > > Paypal's policy for getting the $5 bonus has gotten worse and worse > as time goes one. At first, you had to do very little to get it. > (Verify your address, I think.) Then you had to add a checking > account. Now you've got to add $250. I'm glad I got my $5 when I > did, because I wouldn't get it if I signed up now. > > -- > Lee K. Seitz > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
In a message dated 08/07/2003 8:33:54 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31534.html Good article but it doesn't even cover what paypal can do a SELLER, just reverse the transaction, leave a with negative balance, then threaten with collection agency. My goods are delivered, what am I supposed to do? Buyer or seller beware, paypal is unsafe, they can do whatever they want, steal your money and then ruin your credit rating if you don't approve their theft. Tom Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I will file a police report against them. You people really want to use a service that would do this to an honest person? Yes, because there isn't any other game in town. Same thing with ebay -- I won't use bidville because I'm not certain I wouldn't get a fair shake of buyers. I have followed this thread as much as possible but I must have missed something: The buyer disputed the charge -- can't the seller do the same? Surely there is some recourse for the seller, yes? If you sold it via ebay, doesn't ebay have transaction dispute services? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
Paypal Wall of Shame Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
Re: [SWCollect] Paypal "protection plan"
In a message dated 08/08/2003 9:14:52 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I hope this strategy doesn't backfire on me... It's rough Stuart :( Bidpay is really good for ccard payments if buyer does not mind using them. I don't know what to do myself, the payment I got WAS a bank account transfer and it still didn't do me any good. But you are correct, much more difficult to reverse a bank transfer. Tom Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash, Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page
