Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attributing cc by attribution data
Robin Paulson wrote: one possible problem i can see: it is a legal requirement of OSM to display that attribution and if the tag is editable by anyone, then it can be changed, either through malice, clumsiness or otherwise. this could lead to troublesome legal wrangles it's been talked about regarding a couple of other issues that have cropped up (the naming dispute over cyprus for instance) - maybe we need to lock some information, and allow it only to be edited by certain privileged administrators, who are held responsible for what happens to it? That you cannot prevent anyway. People can always download the data remove the data locally. Delete the data on the server and re-upload it. (or parts of it). Spaetz ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] attributing cc by attribution data
On 10/01/2008, Sebastian Spaeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's been talked about regarding a couple of other issues that have cropped up (the naming dispute over cyprus for instance) - maybe we need to lock some information, and allow it only to be edited by certain privileged administrators, who are held responsible for what happens to it? That you cannot prevent anyway. People can always download the data remove the data locally. Delete the data on the server and re-upload it. (or parts of it). ? not if the data is locked for deletion and editing ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Deriving data from Nestoria's OpenStreetMap
On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 04:39:38PM +, Tom Higgy wrote: Just seen the post on opengeodata.org about Nestoria's entirely OSM based site. And because they use Google Maps API there is a Google logo on it and Google terms of service but only the terse OSM copyleft which doesn't look like proper attribution to me. Maybe somebody should tell them... Jochen -- Jochen Topf [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On Jan 9, 2008 11:50 PM, Karl Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand why numbers are used instead of names. My question is why are there no odd numbers listed? It just looked strange. Future-proofing. It leaves gaps so that if new units are invented that fit between existing ones you can make them be '3' or '5', etc, without having to renumber everything else. -- Abi ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
At 09:44 PM 1/9/2008, Robin Paulson wrote: can someone explain a few things about the way boundaries work, and their relation to the is_in key? as far as i can tell, when a location (say the suburb of balham, in london) is added to the map, the is_in tag needs to be set, multiple times. in this case, it would be set as follows: is_in:Westminster (...i think) is_in:greater london is_in:england is_in:united_kingdom is_in:British_Isles is_in:Great_Britain is_in:Europe ...etc. which seems counter-intuitive, not to mention requiring huge amounts of work. do we set this for every item - roads, churches, supermarkets,thousands of other items? is there anything underway to enable OSM to calculate where an object is, based upon knowledge of administrative boundaries - after all, they are only a polygon-shaped bounding box? Yes, sort of. But the other way around, I am working on deriving administrative boundaries from is_in and place tags. *If* it works, the answer to your main question would be to randomly use is_in tags on low level items such as roads and churches and let the computer work out a boundary around them. I should be able to report back in February. I've spent a year seeding OSM with is_in and place tags as described below. I've also generated some simple bounding boxes for countries from the US government GNS place names data and am working on the same for their ADM1 level (states and provinces). What I am working on now is matching the two tags together. In your above example, I'd have entered Balham something like this: name=Balham place=suburb is_in=England,Greater London Then programmatically I'm looking for closest higher level place tags with the name England and Greater London. That should determine that what they are. Hopefully, the England node will also have information saying it is inside the United Kingdom and Europe so the process can be repeated. So in the best case I end up with all the values in your example. I also have lat/lon that I know lies inside all of them ... if I also have a lat/lon for Moscow and also know that it is Europe, I can begin to build up a model describing the size and extent of Europe. That is the theory. In practice, there are many issues to contend with. What if there is a nearby town called England? , spelling variancy, how does Greater London relate to Westminister and are they place tagged? etc, etc. I'm reasonably confident though. Random use of namespaced tags like is_in:country=Sweden will also help. How I do is_in tagging: countries, states, counties, cities - always have a place tag and put as much info in the is_in tag as possible. Use is_in:state etc. towns, villages, hamlets - always use a place tag and put at least the country and state/county into the is_in tag if known for certain. suburbs - always use a place tag and put the just the city/town/kommun of which it is a suburb streets and POIs (churches, supermarkets ...) - RANDOMLY use is_in tags. Add a postal_code tag if possible. The idea being to generate a good spread of points so that the computer can draw a polygon around the outermost points and say that is a reasonable approximation of the boundary of a town or suburb. Mike Stockholm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
Stephen Gower wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 10:11:35PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: the boundary data should be relatively easy to come by Not where it isn't marked on the ground, and is only defined by reference to the Copyrighted national mapping. The is the case in many places in the UK. AND it is changed each year or so by the Boundary Commission :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On Jan 10, 2008 11:06 AM, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Gower wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 10:11:35PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: the boundary data should be relatively easy to come by Not where it isn't marked on the ground, and is only defined by reference to the Copyrighted national mapping. The is the case in many places in the UK. AND it is changed each year or so by the Boundary Commission :) Administrative boundary changes (as opposed to electoral ones) are in fact relatively rare and usually make boundaries follow more easily identified features (for example, the external border of Greater London in many places now follows the M25, as opposed to the line of nearby ancient hedges which may or not be there any more). -- Abi ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On 10/01/2008, Abigail Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 10, 2008 11:06 AM, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Gower wrote: On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 10:11:35PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: the boundary data should be relatively easy to come by Not where it isn't marked on the ground, and is only defined by reference to the Copyrighted national mapping. The is the case in many places in the UK. AND it is changed each year or so by the Boundary Commission :) Administrative boundary changes (as opposed to electoral ones) are in fact relatively rare and usually make boundaries follow more easily identified features (for example, the external border of Greater London in many places now follows the M25, as opposed to the line of nearby ancient hedges which may or not be there any more). -- Abi ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Is Greater London debatable or for a mapping/administritive meaning are you counting the outside boundaries of the London Boroughs? I personally do it by the London Transport zone, as your generally need a 10-12minute bus service so it feels like London. By friends in the next suburb define Greater London by the M25, which would include them and lots of fields. -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On Jan 10, 2008 11:35 AM, Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Greater London debatable or for a mapping/administritive meaning are you counting the outside boundaries of the London Boroughs? I personally do it by the London Transport zone, as your generally need a 10-12minute bus service so it feels like London. By friends in the next suburb define Greater London by the M25, which would include them and lots of fields. Greater London has a specific meaning under the London Government Act 1963, and anyone claiming anything else is outright wrong. 'London' is a term of debate. -- Abi ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The OSM licence: where we are, where we're going
On 09/01/2008, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Please can we keep this to legal-talk to stop discussion fragmenting? Thanks. Longbow4u wrote: After the proposed revision of the GFDL by the Free Software Foundation our maps will probably be compatible with Wikipedia. If we would go for another copyleft licence this compatibility would not materialise. Our maps are already available for inclusion in Wikipedia and it's inconceivable that this would change - see earlier posting to legal-talk. I think your posting is good evidence of a widespread truth: there is no way that OSM contributors would ever countenance a change that would stop Wikipedia using our maps. If Wikipedia does change to CC-BY-SA, its Collective Work provision will certainly allow Wikipedia to continue using OSM maps, whether OSM uses CC-BY-SA, ODCL, public domain or whatever. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk I don't know much legally but... If your required to say the map you've used is OSM then doesn't that make the map a bit seperate for the work you've put it on. So if I make a wiki, website, book, or leaflet about something and as an illustration I put an OSM. The writing on my work still comes under standard copyright/my license rather than having to carry on the OSM license. If my license gives the data to someone they can't include the OSM graphic unless also agreeing to the OSM license, but they could put a black square there to censor it (or their own map, whatever). If I had edited the OSM graphic to show something then anyone can take that graphic under the OSM license without taking my work/writing. If I'm right then compatibility isn't quite as much as an issue as the discussion has made me think. -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POIs from wikipedia
This problem can elegantly be solved as a layer on the output e.g. a hyperlink / ballon on web based map. OSM only need to indicate which nodes already has wikipedia entries and what their identifiers are. Then we can prevent duplicates from being rendered. I suspect the most likely explanation is that they simply don't realise it's not legal - I'd expect discussion on the page if they Or it's legal because it's fair use because it's small scale and not for profit. If Google Maps contain a feature that automatically displays WGS coordinates, then it's only logical that normal people will manually copy those coordinates into other documents that they freely share with other interested parties. IMHO The Berne convention (and probably a whole lot of other case law / common law) prevents someone from distributing a product under All rights reserved and then afterwards making extremely broad claims against a significant proportion of their customer base. A copyright holder can't have it both ways : Upfront revenues and guaranteed penalties from their customers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] source=yahoo
When I use the source tag (and the note tag) I just make sure it includes the word someone might search for (sometimes I feel the need for a short sentence). So if anyone needs to know where everything is that's based on yahoo imagery they can just search for values including 'yahoo' and they should find all of them. Having said that it is normal convention, and one OSM seems to have adopted that tag names/values should be lowercase and underscores _ rather than spaces. On 09/01/2008, Franc Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I swapped to this recently as well - on the basis of it being more 'consistent' with other tags - i.e lower case and no spaces cheers On Jan 10, 2008 10:31 AM, Lukasz Stelmach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Franc Carter wrote: I have seen these two source=Yahoo Imagery source=yahoo_imagery the latter seems quite nice. i'll use it. -- Było mi bardzo miło. Czwarta pospolita klęska, [...] Łukasz Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska. (c)PP -- Kupujesz laptopa? Sprawdz nasze testy! Kliknij http://link.interia.pl/f1cd1 -- Franc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The OSM licence: where we are, where we're going
On Jan 10, 2008 11:52 AM, Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm right then compatibility isn't quite as much as an issue as the discussion has made me think. Wikipedia's position is indeed that they are allowed to illustrate GFDL articles with cc-by-sa images, because the images and the articles constitute independent works. -- Abi ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How to tag: milestones, trigpoints etc
Hi all, I was wondering is there an existing way to tag a marker that is something for when you don't have a map, but of interest to the sorts or people that are OSM mappers. The sort of thing I am thinking of: milestones/posts, that say how many miles to the next town trigpoints and various markers, used in accurate mapping london coal posts, used to mark the london boundary where entering coal was charged a tax, some have moved or disappeared and it would be good to mark where existing ones remain. historical mapping locations such as the one I mention in http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2008/01/last-day-of-mapping (4th paragraph, 2nd photo) If nothing exists I would propose it but I'm not sure what to call it. Perhaps historic=marker type= ? -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Bash Script to update planet file to latest change file
Hi, Here's a small script that will automatically download and apply all the required daily change files to make your planet file as up to date as possible. just save the file some where convenient, i.e. the directory where your planet file is located. Then chmod the file to make it executable i.e. chmod +x update-planet Then run the script, which requires one argument, which is the full path to the directory where the planet file is located. i.e. update-planet ~/osm The script should then go away and download then apply all the change files required. This can take a VERY long time. Please backup your planet file first, because if something goes wrong during the update, you will lose it. I know this because I wiped my own file whilst playing with this script, hmmm.. only another 12hrs to finish downloading it again. :-( P.S. I'm not a programmer, so I won't be offended if someone rewrites it properly ;-) Cheers, Ian - Sent from Yahoo! #45; a smarter inbox. update-planet Description: 1776235943-update-planet ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The OSM licence: where we are, where we're going
Gregory wrote: I don't know much legally but... Oh, I don't know, you seem to have summed it up pretty nicely there. :) [...] If I'm right then compatibility isn't quite as much as an issue as the discussion has made me think. Yes, absolutely. As Abi says, Wikipedia's current policy allows any free images to be used, and if they move to CC-BY-SA that will be explicitly permitted under its Collective Work clause. So whatever happens, Wikipedia and similar projects will always be able to use OSM maps. cheers Richard (follow-ups to legal-talk, he says forlornly) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag: milestones, trigpoints etc
80n wrote: Sent: 10 January 2008 12:57 PM To: Gregory Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag: milestones, trigpoints etc I've been tagging Coal tax Markers as: historic=monument note=Coal Tax Marker 80n I've used highway=milepost a fair bit too Cheers Andy On Jan 10, 2008 12:48 PM, Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was wondering is there an existing way to tag a marker that is something for when you don't have a map, but of interest to the sorts or people that are OSM mappers. The sort of thing I am thinking of: milestones/posts, that say how many miles to the next town trigpoints and various markers, used in accurate mapping london coal posts, used to mark the london boundary where entering coal was charged a tax, some have moved or disappeared and it would be good to mark where existing ones remain. historical mapping locations such as the one I mention in http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2008/01/last-day-of-mapping (4th paragraph, 2nd photo) If nothing exists I would propose it but I'm not sure what to call it. Perhaps historic=marker type= ? -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roadnav
Ah, I'm not sure about the searching functionality, I don't think I played with that. If you are trying to position the map without gpsd I think you can edit a configuration file somewhere with your local long/lat. - David On 10/01/2008, Ian Haylock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, David Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You need to run the osm2navit or similarly named program to convert an osm file into the navit format before you can use it. I think I have already run that. As I think that program creates the map .bin file, and as my map of the Philippines is working I think that it worked ok. I think the places that appear in the search are from the original default maps that navit downloads. Cheers, Ian Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox. -- David Dean PhD Research Student, RP-SAIVT, QUT (me) http://www.davidbdean.com (saivt) http://www.bee.qut.edu.au/projects/saivt/ (post) Room S1102, GPO Box 2434, Brisbane, Australia 4001 (p) +61 7 3138 1414 (m) 0407 151 912 (f) +61 7 3138 1516 (CRICOS) 00213J ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag: milestones, trigpoints etc
On Jan 10, 2008 12:48 PM, Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was wondering is there an existing way to tag a marker that is something for when you don't have a map, but of interest to the sorts or people that are OSM mappers. The sort of thing I am thinking of: milestones/posts, that say how many miles to the next town trigpoints and various markers, used in accurate mapping london coal posts, used to mark the london boundary where entering coal was charged a tax, some have moved or disappeared and it would be good to mark where existing ones remain. historical mapping locations such as the one I mention in http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2008/01/last-day-of-mapping (4th paragraph, 2nd photo) If nothing exists I would propose it but I'm not sure what to call it. Perhaps historic=marker type= ? -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk Trigpoints are covered under man_made=survey_point I've been meaning to ask the guys at trigonomy about their database's license, and wondering if they could be mass-imported in some way. -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On Jan 10, 2008 12:53 AM, Abigail Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 9, 2008 11:50 PM, Karl Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand why numbers are used instead of names. My question is why are there no odd numbers listed? It just looked strange. Future-proofing. It leaves gaps so that if new units are invented that fit between existing ones you can make them be '3' or '5', etc, without having to renumber everything else. -- Abi Really? Trying to future-proof against hierarchies that have been around for (in some cases) millenia? Ooh, I know, we could have negative numbers to indicate planet, solar system, galaxy, etc. For future interstellar use. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On Jan 10, 2008 4:37 PM, Karl Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really? Trying to future-proof against hierarchies that have been around for (in some cases) millenia? Ooh, I know, we could have negative numbers to indicate planet, solar system, galaxy, etc. For future interstellar use. I'm not going to even bother explaining further you're going to take that attitude. Please go away. -- Abi ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On Jan 10, 2008 8:55 AM, Abigail Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 10, 2008 4:37 PM, Karl Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really? Trying to future-proof against hierarchies that have been around for (in some cases) millenia? Ooh, I know, we could have negative numbers to indicate planet, solar system, galaxy, etc. For future interstellar use. I'm not going to even bother explaining further you're going to take that attitude. Please go away. Oh, brother. Can't tolerate a little sarcasm? The scheme just seems a little vague to me. As it is, it's difficult to correlate similar concepts across countries using this method. i.e., what's a city? It's pretty well-defined in the US where there's not a lot of historical baggage, but it's more complex in other countries, and only a few countries have provided specific local definitions for the admin levels. Adding more levels will not make the process easier. Which level do I pick if I want to know what city a street is part of? Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] applying for another country-specific mailinglist
Hi all, Apologies for the admin related topic, but I don't know exactly where to direct it. It is about applying for the creation a country-specific mailinglist. Who to approach to get a new mailinglist set up? [EMAIL PROTECTED] absorbs my message, but no reply after a week, so i guess there is nobody looking in that mailinglist and [EMAIL PROTECTED] rejects my messages, saying i am not allowed to post to it... Kind regards, Ivom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
Robin Paulson wrote: can someone explain a few things about the way boundaries work, and their relation to the is_in key? as far as i can tell, when a location (say the suburb of balham, in london) is added to the map, the is_in tag needs to be set, multiple times. in this case, it would be set as follows: is_in:Westminster (...i think) is_in:greater london is_in:england is_in:united_kingdom is_in:British_Isles is_in:Great_Britain is_in:Europe ...etc. which seems counter-intuitive, not to mention requiring huge amounts of work. do we set this for every item - roads, churches, supermarkets,thousands of other items? What I do is putting is_in only on places and I do it rather like this: Westminster,greater london,england,united_kingdom,etc. Even when I map a few villages in an areay JOSM autocompletes that. my second, related, point concerns boundaries that coincide with coastlines: do we need to trace over the coastline of a country/city/suburb to define an unbroken loop for each administrative areas, After reading http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:boundary http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:Key:boundary#Expanded_usage I would not bother. What is more important to me, and this is question for all who know, how to cope boundaries *between* two areas, like administrative ones? How to cope with boundaries of different administrative levels? If a line is a boundary between communes it is also a boundry of respective provinces. Both webpages above seem to be quite vague about it, or at best unofficial. -- Było mi bardzo miło. Czwarta pospolita klęska, [...] Łukasz Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska. (c)PP -- Chcesz kupic aparat? Sprawdz, ktory jest najlepszy! Kliknij http://link.interia.pl/f1cd3 begin:vcard fn;quoted-printable:=C5=81ukasz Stelmach n;quoted-printable:Stelmach;=C5=81ukasz email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] auto drawing island country borders (was Re: administrative boundaries and is_in)
Robin Paulson wrote: On 11/01/2008, Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - There's no reason why you can't stick an admin boundary on a natural=coastline way. sounds good the idea of tracing over an existing boundary is not something that particularly appeals to me though, and as it's been done once, does it need to be done again: From what I knwo boundaries rather seldom go right along the costline, if you mean a sea. Most often few miles of sea is still a part of the nearby country. Like for example here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.236lon=4.444zoom=10layers=B0FT -- Było mi bardzo miło. Czwarta pospolita klęska, [...] Łukasz Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska. (c)PP -- Rozdajemy nagrody! Sprawdz http://link.interia.pl/f1cbf begin:vcard fn;quoted-printable:=C5=81ukasz Stelmach n;quoted-printable:Stelmach;=C5=81ukasz email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
Thomas Wood wrote: On Jan 10, 2008 6:34 PM, Lukasz Stelmach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] What is more important to me, and this is question for all who know, how to cope boundaries *between* two areas, like administrative ones? How to cope with boundaries of different administrative levels? If a line is a boundary between communes it is also a boundry of respective provinces. Not necessarily - it could be at the moment, or it could not be. There are examples (in the UK at least) of overlaps. Do you mean that a commune (the lowest level of self government) can be part of more than one unit of each of higher levels? Like this? \ \_:_ - C1 :::\:: ::\: P1| P2 \ / I am talking here about administrative boundaries not some sort of customary ones. I haven't written that earlier but what should I do if the boundary goes along some other way like railroad, river or highway? Should I draw another way right besides the road or tag one way as both the road and the boundary? If the former then I think sooner or later we should develop separate layers for different features of the map. Editing could be much easier then. -- Było mi bardzo miło. Czwarta pospolita klęska, [...] Łukasz Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska. (c)PP -- Sprawdz, ktore komorki sa najmodniejsze! Kliknij http://link.interia.pl/f1cd4 begin:vcard fn;quoted-printable:=C5=81ukasz Stelmach n;quoted-printable:Stelmach;=C5=81ukasz email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highway and Ralyway - tram_stops and the like
Robin Paulson wrote: On 11/01/2008, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Tram_station it will be moved to the approved features and map features pages Should it be used for the stops on the track of a bus_guideway ;) I do think that taking a lot of these features in isolation is missing the whole picture. Add the rich diversity world wide and things become even more complex. totally right, absolutely. this has been at the back of my mind for some time now. my gut feeling about it, is to create the tags the way we are doing now, in isolation, using the current top-level tags (they are quite inconsistent and overlap lots, IMO) at the moment we are seeing a rapid rise in the number of tags proposed/accepted, and this is going to continue for some months, after which it will decrease, signifying we have created the vast majority (we will never fully complete, there will always be something new) at this point, we will have a far better, more-rounded picture of what is happening with tags, how they could be improved, etc.: does namespacing need to be seriously considered? should we have such a shallow depth of tags, or a more nested approach? should railways and highways be joined into one category (this would remove a lot of arguments.)? do we need to look at how we define permission son highways? and many more at this point, i can see the tag system undergoing a major overhaul i think trying to make changes like you are suggesting while we are going through such a period of rapid change, would be a mistake My only point of detail is that guided bus systems are SPECIFICALLY defined as using a special trackway physically removed from the public highway and the misplaced suggestions that the public can USE these trackways is distorting the picture. It is specifically identified as an off road technology and the same rules apply to many routes as apply to a normal railway line. I think that distinguishing track based systems from road based or water based is valid, the problem is defining facilities that are clearly of one type with a tag for the other is simply WRONG since you WILL need to use the correct related tags. ( And I see that my vote for that has disappeared :( ) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] monorail in osmarender is purple?
why is that? I try to map a bigger train-station with lots of single-railways. and now, the whole trainstation is purple :-P -- mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On 11/01/2008, Lukasz Stelmach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is more important to me, and this is question for all who know, how to cope boundaries *between* two areas, like administrative ones? How to cope with boundaries of different administrative levels? If a line is a boundary between communes it is also a boundry of respective provinces. Not necessarily - it could be at the moment, or it could not be. There are examples (in the UK at least) of overlaps. Do you mean that a commune (the lowest level of self government) can be part of more than one unit of each of higher levels? Like this? yes. some examples: Franklin district in new zealand lies partly in auckland region, partly in waikato region i think turkey lies partly in europe, partly in asia? the kansas city metro area lies in missouri and kansas (US) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highway and Ralyway - tram_stops and the like
On 10/01/2008 19:00, Robin Paulson wrote: at this point, we will have a far better, more-rounded picture of what is happening with tags, how they could be improved, etc.: does namespacing need to be seriously considered? should we have such a shallow depth of tags, or a more nested approach? should railways and highways be joined into one category (this would remove a lot of arguments.)? do we need to look at how we define permission son highways? and many more at this point, i can see the tag system undergoing a major overhaul i think trying to make changes like you are suggesting while we are going through such a period of rapid change, would be a mistake I think a lot of the discussions we end up having are because we are forced to put a feature into a sometimes arbitrary or not-quite-right category. But why do we need a category at all? Might it not be better to simply say this is a tram stop and these are its properties. Instead of highway=primary, ref=A1303, name=High Street we'd say primary_road(ref=A1303, name=High Street) [note: please don't think I'm proposing a syntax here, I'm just illustrating the concept - a concept which is not uncommon] And instead of pointlessly arguing over whether a museum is tourist or historic (a current proposal to change one to the other was circulated earlier), it would simply be museum(name=Science Museum) A tram stop is just a tram stop. A bus_guideway is just that, there's no need to argue the nuances of whether it is a railway-like feature or a highway-like feature - it doesn't then matter. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] voting open - museum
Robin Paulson wrote: this proposal is for two things: a new tag, tourism=museum and the deprecation of the old tag, historic=museum http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Museum I was going to comment on the page, but it seems like a wider issue. Why are some things like this only for nodes, and others for areas? Currently a museum is only a node and I'm not sure why - they're often quite big, taking the space of at least a block or two. For a rather bizarre example, an intact castle is only a node, but the ruins of a castle can be an area. Is there previous discussion on this somewhere? Would it not make sense to allow all amenity / shop / tourism / historic etc to be areas unless specifically decided otherwise? Tony ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] RFC - checkpoint
this has been on the proposals page for 8 months now, with very little attention paid to it http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Checkpoint a request for comments and opinions, please thanks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
Robin Paulson wrote: Do you mean that a commune (the lowest level of self government) can be part of more than one unit of each of higher levels? Like this? yes. some examples: i think turkey lies partly in europe, partly in asia? There are other examples at even this high a level as well. Parts of France are in South America (lots of people are surprised to find that Brazil has a land border with the EU). Parts of Spain are in Africa (Melilla, Ceuta, etc). And there lots of towns or cities that are in different geographic countries than administrative ones (Campione and Büsingen are Italian and German towns in Switzerland, Llívia a Spanish town in France, etc) Usually these are enclaves or exclaves, so slightly easier to deal with, but we need to constantly remember that the world is a very tricky thing to model, with large numbers of quirky edge cases. Tony ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] proposal templates
further to my previous post about editing the wiki, are there any mediawiki gurus here? a set of templates (or even one!) for proposals would save a lot of time, does anyone feel like volunteering to create one? hopefully, this would give some guidelines for people when proposing tags, and save a lot of time currently wasted on cleanups ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] monorail in osmarender is purple?
Mario Salvini [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: why is that? I try to map a bigger train-station with lots of single-railways. and now, the whole trainstation is purple :-P A regular railway is usually *not* a monorail (= Einschienenbahn in German). Illustration: http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/01/12/monorail-cat/ Cheers Colin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] proposal templates
On 11/01/2008, Gerald A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/01/2008, Tony Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mediawiki templates require passing in arguments to the call to them, which isn't really suitable for large clumps of text. I'm not a template guru, but there are ways to create a template that will automatically populate on creation. Maybe if Robin could give us a rundown on how he'd like it to work, I will take a stab at tracking down the way to get that to happen. hah...now you've got me. i've created a page on the wiki and added a few sparse notes, maybe we should move the discussion there. i'm sure others will have good ideas as to how we should do this (if at all) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposal_templates ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Kosmos v1.3 - shaded relief
Hello everybody, Kosmos rendering engine has a new version (1.3). The main new feature is relief shading tool in Kosmos.Gui, which can automatically download and process SRTM3 data for a given map area. If you're interested, visit http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Kosmos. Good night, Igor Brejc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [RFC] shop = chemist
On 10/01/2008, Ulf Lamping [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I still need a good term for those shops that you seem to have in england as well, superdrug and Boots may be good examples (at least the shops not dispensing :-). I think The body shop also falls under this category. I hesitate to use the german word drogerie for it, this won't be very recognisable internationally. Any ideas for a better term than health and beauty? Drugstore: although not widely used in the English speaking world outside America, it's the closest description I can think of and it's a good equivalent for Drogerie. Dermot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] RFC - model aerodrome
this proposal has been languishing for 2+ months now, with little discussion http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Model%27s_Aerodrome please could i get some comments thanks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] voting open - ship
this proposal has no unanswered objections http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/ship voting is now open thanks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] RFC - deletion of football tag
this tag has now been superseded by gridiron, rugby league, soccer, etc. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/football in the interests of doing things properly, i've created a proposal for deletion, similar to how we handle proposals for creation of tags. i'd rather not get into making unilateral decisions, only for someone next week to say where's the football tag gone?, and re-create it comments please thanks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On 11/01/2008, Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - The border of a country is not the coastline, but (at the very least) 12 nautical miles from the coastline and in some places, much further than that. ok, let's say i wanted to use this as a basis for drawing the national boundary for a country. i appreciate that part of the border will be more than 12nm away from the coast (depending on the depth of the ocean floor, yes?), but it's a good start does some enterprising coder want to come up with a way of automagically drawing the border at a 12nm offset to the coastline? anywhere that the border is different, i would be happy to edit it manually, if a large part of it was being done by programmatic means ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] tidied proposal/RFC - waterfall
i did a bit of work tidying this up, although it's basically sound as far as i can see - should be pretty straightforward http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Waterfall comments and opinions please thanks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] voting closed, proposal approved - dam
voting has now closed on waterway=dam, with 14 approve votes, and no object votes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Dam it has been moved to the approved features page thanks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] new proposal - reservoir
in a bid to keep things consistent, i've created a new proposal for waterway=reservoir, and suggest deprecating landuse=reservoir http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/reservoir comments and opinions please thanks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:11:03 +0100 Lukasz Stelmach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robin Paulson wrote: On 11/01/2008, Lukasz Stelmach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the kansas city metro area lies in missouri and kansas (US) Ok, how about its administration. To which governor must a mayor of kansas city suck up? I'm pretty sure that not to both. Maybe the metro area has som independence? Then I would draw it like this. yes, that may be true, but still boundaries at a high level do not have to coincide with boundaries at a low level. i think that was where this all started My point is that as far as the administration and adminstrative boundaries are conserned, they do coincide. No, they don't. Reading the wikipedia stuff you linked: Kansas City is the largest city in the state of Missouri. It encompasses 318 square miles in parts of Jackson, Clay, Cass, and Platte counties. It is fairly common for larger cities and even small towns in the US to lie in more than one county. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 'footpath' getagged als 'pedestrian'?
Armijn Hemel wrote: *, zomaar een vraag: zien anderen ook in de AND data dat verschillende wegen die niet meer dan 1 m breed zijn (voetpaden) getagged zijn als 'pedestrian' (volgens de wiki meer 'voetgangersgebied', als in: afgesloten voor autoverkeer, maar niet per se ontoegankelijk voor auto's)? Wat me ook opgevallen is is dat 'pedestrian' gebieden op bepaalde zoomlevels (13 en lager) niet gerenderd worden, maar lager wel. Als ik de wiki goed begrijp zijn 'pedestrian' wegen eigenlijk gewone wegen, waardoor je ze juist wel gerenderd zou willen hebben. Een aardig voorbeeld is de Oude Gracht in Utrecht. armijn Volgens mij is hiervan alwel eens een melding geweest, het staat zelfs in de wiki [1]. Fietspaden zijn als pedestrian getagd, wellicht voetpaden ook. Deze fouten moeten natuurlijk gecorrigeerd worden: fietspad - cycleway voetpad - footway http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/AND-NL:_Todo ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Tileserver op Nederkaartblog
Nu we het toch over de tileserver hebben: Er waren plannen om daar zondag, rond de OSM borrel (welke borrel begint er al om 2 uur btw? :)), daarover te meeten. Zijn die plannen er nog steeds? Zoja, ervoor of erna? Qua borrel zou ik er wel voor zijn om het er VOOR te doen, en om gelijk een balletje op te gooien: 12 uur ergens in die buurt (of dezelfde kroeg, al weet ik niet hoe 'vergadervriendelijk' die is)? Ik zou er graag bij zijn. Groeten, Martjn Pannevis. Martijn van Exel wrote: Ha, FYI, er staat vandaag een stukje over OSM-data en de NL Tileserver op de mappingblog Nederkaart[1]. Nederkaart is een blog van Remco Kouwenhoven, voormalig raadslid in Groningen en hij heeft ook een hoge ambtelijke functie gehad bij de gemeente Apeldoorn. Als we ons in 2008 meer op het gebruik van OSM binnen de overheid willen gaan richten, kan hij misschien ook wel deuren openen. Henk, ken jij hem misschien? Martijn [1] http://www.nederkaart.nl/openstreetmap/open-streetmap-nl-tile-server.html ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] tileserver update (Peter Peterse)
De wijzigingen vinden vooral plaats op level 17. De map op tile.openstreetmap.nl is maar een demo. Mijn updates in ypenburg waren 2 dagen later al zichtbaar op level 17, maar nu nog steeds niet op de hogere levels. De bedoeling was niet hier een kaart server te plaatsen, maar de kaart is een voorbeeld van wat je met de server kan. De [EMAIL PROTECTED] server (informationfreeway.org) is bedoeld om snel te checken hoe het met de recente mutaties gaat. Helaas laat [EMAIL PROTECTED] verstek gaan met updates van veel nederlandse tiles, omdat deze te complex zijn. Mijn oproep op de [EMAIL PROTECTED] talk om dit probleem te fixen, is (nog) niet opgepakt. Omdat het voornamelijk (op dit moment) een NL-probleem is , moeten wij dit misschien in NL zelf oppakken. Helaas heb ik wel ideeen, maar kan nog niet overweg met de [EMAIL PROTECTED] software. Een goede introductie of een studie-fix dag zou misschien helpen ??? Martijn van Oosterhout , voel je je geroepen ?? (of anderen ?) Iets voor zondag ?? Om plannen te maken ?? Gert Gremmen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gerco-Kees Bloemsma Sent: 2008-01-09 1:24 PM To: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk-nl] tileserver update (Peter Peterse) Ik vind het toch gek, mijn ervaring is dat de Mapnik-map vaak sneller geupdate is dan de nl-tileserver. De [EMAIL PROTECTED] map is meestal het eerst met de wijzigingen, maar ook weer niet altijd... Wanneer zijn de veranderingen gemaakt. Het kan een dag of twee duren voordat de data in de DB helemaal door tot de tiles werkt... Ik zie wijzigingen van 2 weken geleden nog steeds niet op de nl-server verschijnen ... :-( -- Gerco-Kees ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 'footpath' getagged als 'pedestrian'?
On Thursday 10 January 2008 09:20:57 Lambertus wrote: Een aardig voorbeeld is de Oude Gracht in Utrecht. Volgens mij is hiervan alwel eens een melding geweest, het staat zelfs in de wiki [1]. Fietspaden zijn als pedestrian getagd, wellicht voetpaden ook. Deze fouten moeten natuurlijk gecorrigeerd worden: fietspad - cycleway voetpad - footway Er zit iets onhandigs in het renderen. Footways vallen bij uitzoomen juist weer veel op. Ze lijken dan belangrijker dan een gewone weg. Allerlei kleine steegjes in Amsterdam centrum springen dan naar voren. Die doe ik dus juist als pedestrian. Ze hoeven alleen zichtbaar te zijn bij inzoomen. In een natuurgebied kan het juist handig zijn als ook bij uitzoomen het voetpad zichtbaar blijft en een afwijkende kleur heeft, dus footway. vriendelijke groet, cordialmente, Ante ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] tileserver update
On Jan 10, 2008 11:40 AM, Gert Gremmen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: De wijzigingen vinden vooral plaats op level 17. aha, dat verklaart een hoop...!! Waarom kan ik op de tile-server enkel tot level 16 gaan? Helaas laat [EMAIL PROTECTED] verstek gaan met updates van veel nederlandse tiles, omdat deze te complex zijn. hmm, vandaar ook die, met regelmaat terugkerende blauwe tiles? en daarom zou ik graag de actuele data op de nederlandse tile-server zien;-) However, met een beetje geduld (wij nederlanders zijn soms een wat, ongeduldig volkje) zie je je wijzigingen toch wel na verloop van tijd verschijnen.. Die twee dagen vind ik nog geen probleem. Als er maar wel veranderingen te zien zijn. Peter. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 'footpath' getagged als 'pedestrian'?
Ante Wessels wrote: On Thursday 10 January 2008 09:20:57 Lambertus wrote: Een aardig voorbeeld is de Oude Gracht in Utrecht. Volgens mij is hiervan alwel eens een melding geweest, het staat zelfs in de wiki [1]. Fietspaden zijn als pedestrian getagd, wellicht voetpaden ook. Deze fouten moeten natuurlijk gecorrigeerd worden: fietspad - cycleway voetpad - footway Er zit iets onhandigs in het renderen. Footways vallen bij uitzoomen juist weer veel op. Ze lijken dan belangrijker dan een gewone weg. Allerlei kleine steegjes in Amsterdam centrum springen dan naar voren. Die doe ik dus juist als pedestrian. Ze hoeven alleen zichtbaar te zijn bij inzoomen. In een natuurgebied kan het juist handig zijn als ook bij uitzoomen het voetpad zichtbaar blijft en een afwijkende kleur heeft, dus footway. vriendelijke groet, cordialmente, Ante Persoonlijk vind ik dit een verkeerde manier van taggen. Jij baseert de te kiezen tag 'op basis van wat en hoe dingen op dit moment gerenderd worden' in tegenstelling tot 'op basis van wat een tag betekend'. Dus een steeg hoort een footway tag te krijgen als er geen auto's door kunnen (en fietsen wellicht toegestaan is). Een weg waarop (meestal) geen auto's mogen komen krijgt een pedestrian tag. Als de bestaande renderers tags met een verkeerde prioriteit laten zien moet dat in de render regels opgelost worden of 'je' zet een alternatieve kaart op die de dingen wel juist laat zien. Misschien moeten de renderers footways alleen op een hogere zoomlevel tekenen zodra deze binnen een bebouwd gebied liggen en al op een lager zoomlevel buiten deze gebieden. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 'footpath' getagged als 'pedestrian'?
hi, Een aardig voorbeeld is de Oude Gracht in Utrecht. Volgens mij is hiervan alwel eens een melding geweest, het staat zelfs in de wiki [1]. Fietspaden zijn als pedestrian getagd, wellicht voetpaden ook. Deze fouten moeten natuurlijk gecorrigeerd worden: fietspad - cycleway voetpad - footway Er zit iets onhandigs in het renderen. Footways vallen bij uitzoomen juist weer veel op. Ze lijken dan belangrijker dan een gewone weg. Allerlei kleine steegjes in Amsterdam centrum springen dan naar voren. Die doe ik dus juist als pedestrian. Ze hoeven alleen zichtbaar te zijn bij inzoomen. Hum. Zou het dan niet handiger zijn om dat in de rendering aan te passen en niet om wegen anders te taggen omdat het er dan in de rendering beter uitziet? Overigens had ik het over echte voetpaden, zoals omschreven om de wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features Dus: de straatjes/schelpenpaadjes waar je misschien met veel persen net een Daihatsu Cuore over/doorheen zou kunnen krijgen ;-) armijn -- --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.uulug.nl/ | UULug: Utrecht Linux Users Group --- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] footway, cycleway en pedestrian
*??? Een weg waarop (meestal) geen auto's mogen komen krijgt een pedestrian tag. ???** * volgens de wiki: heb ik alleen highway=pedestrian in stads-centra. Lees maar: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:highway%3Dpedestrian For town centres and civic areas, where wide expanses of hard surface are provided for pedestrians to walk between shops. Vehicles may be allowed in during the evenings to unload merchandise, but are prevented from entering normally by bollards Cyclists may try to use these features, leaving behind a trail of irate pedestrians, but are not supposed to be there The footpath tag seems a bit inappropriate for such things. buiten de bebouwde kom heb ik dus altijd footway of cycleway en nooit pedestrian.. (en boerenlandweggetjes worden tracks, zie ook de And-nl-todo) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/AND-NL:_Todo kan dit soort dingen niet automatisch aangepast worden? -- Gerco-Kees ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] tileserver update (Peter Peterse)
On Jan 10, 2008 11:40 AM, Gert Gremmen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mijn updates in ypenburg waren 2 dagen later al zichtbaar op level 17, maar nu nog steeds niet op de hogere levels. Oh, waar? Kan je een permalink aageven? Martijn van Oosterhout , voel je je geroepen ?? (of anderen ?) Voor [EMAIL PROTECTED] heb ik voor het renderen niet zoveel, ik vind mapnik gewoon mooier. Verder voor complex tiles is de oplossing eigenlijk wel bekend: iets anders dan inkscape gebruiken maar ik heb mij er niet in verdiept. Ik zie wijzigingen van 2 weken geleden nog steeds niet op de nl-server verschijnen ... :-( Waar? Mvg, -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] footway, cycleway en pedestrian
Gerco-Kees Bloemsma wrote: /??? Een weg waarop (meestal) geen auto's mogen komen krijgt een pedestrian tag. ???// / volgens de wiki: heb ik alleen highway=pedestrian in stads-centra. Lees maar: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:highway%3Dpedestrian For town centres and civic areas, where wide expanses of hard surface are provided for pedestrians to walk between shops. Vehicles may be allowed in during the evenings to unload merchandise, but are prevented from entering normally by bollards Cyclists may try to use these features, leaving behind a trail of irate pedestrians, but are not supposed to be there The footpath tag seems a bit inappropriate for such things. Dat bedoelde ik ook (in te versimpelde vorm) :-) Het ging mij om (wat Armijn ook zei) dat correct taggen voor gaat op correct renderen. Dat lijkt me wel duidelijk. buiten de bebouwde kom heb ik dus altijd footway of cycleway en nooit pedestrian.. (en boerenlandweggetjes worden tracks, zie ook de And-nl-todo) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/AND-NL:_Todo kan dit soort dingen niet automatisch aangepast worden? Nee, want dan worden ook correct getagde pedestrian gebieden naar cycleway of footway omgezet. Dit is dus handwerk, maar wel makkelijk te herkennen. Het is gewoon bij de import fout gegaan waardoor pedestrian gebieden evenals cycleways als pedestrian zijn aangemerkt. Niks aan te doen, 'gewoon' met het handje corrigeren. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 'footpath' getagged als 'pedestrian'?
On Thu, January 10, 2008 7:11 pm, Lambertus wrote: Ok, er valt wat voor te zeggen, maar... De wiki pagina voor footway [1] zegt toch echt dat steegjes waar je alleen maar te voet (eventueel ook fiets) mag komen footway moeten zijn. Ook de wiki pagina voor pedestrian [2] zegt: For town centres and civic areas, where wide expanses of hard surface are provided for pedestrians to walk between shops. Dus voor brede oppervlakken en niet voor steegjes e.d. De foto laat een stedelijk gebied zien, zeg een straat die (tegenwoordig) alleen nog voor voetgangers is, zeg de Kalverstraat in Amsterdam. Die Kalverstraat heeft zijwegen van wisselende breedte, soms loopt de zijstraat zelf van breed naar smal (aan de ene kant kan er een tank door heen, steeg aan de ene kant). Het hele gebied zit vol met winkels, cafe's, etc. Zo'n gebied is beter af, mijns inziens, met pedestrian dan dat ik moet gaan beslissen waar het smal wordt. De functie verandert hier niet met de breedte. Het is een pret/winkel gebied, voor wandelaars. vriendelijke groet, cordialmente, Ante ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [Talk-de] Zuordung von Straßen zu Orten via Rel ations
Hi! Martin Trautmann schrieb: Oder man könnte (Achtung: mein Lieblingsthema) einfach die Städte als Areas einzeichnen, wie es, wie ich mittlerweile rausgefunden habe, auch die FAQ als das korrekte Vorgehen bezeichnet: Die Auswertung damit kommt mir zwar recht schwierig vor, das scheint aber der sinnvollste Ansatz zu sein. Naja, das sollten Standardalgorithmen sein, die man in diversen Büchern nachlesen kann. Und ich denke, es ist besser, wenn eine Handvoll Entwickler ein wenig mehr Gehirnschmalz in die SW-Auswertung steckt, um es dafür tausenden von Datenlieferanten (=den Mappern) leichter zu machen. Außerdem halte ich eine Eingrenzung über einen Pfad auch programmiertechnisch auf lange Sicht für einfacher zu handhaben als tausende von Einzelrelationen. Woher aber willst du die korrekten Stadtgrenzen bekommen? Verwendest du als erste Grenzkontur einfach die entsprechenden Straßen oder willst du von der Stadt den echten Grenzverlauf? Für Landshut habe ich es einfach so gemacht, dass ich auf allen Hauptstraßen jeweils bis zum Ortsschild gefahren bin. Das gab schonmal die Grobkontur. Die Feinkontur kommt dann nach und nach, wenn ich alle Straßen erfasse... Willst du korrekte oder brauchbare Daten? In erster Linie mal brauchbare. Eine Karte ist immer eine idealisierte Darstellung der Wirklichkeit. Die Wirklichkeit wird *immer* komplexer sein als das, was wir in OSM darstellen können, egal wieviel Mühe wir uns geben. Natürlich sollten wir versuchen, uns asymptotisch der Korrektheit anzunähern, aber uns sollte auch klar sein, dass wir dieses Ziel nie erreichen werden. Man denke nur an die Straßenverläufe, die wir immer nur in grober Näherung haben werden. Ich denke beispielsweise an eine Straße hier, die man wohl als hiesige Straße bezeichnen würde. Tatsächlich weiss ich aber davon, dass sie mehrfach auf wenigen Metern die Landkreisgrenzen durchschneidet. Sorry, aber eine provokante Frage: wen interessieren diese Details? Wenn sie jemand kennt, dann kann er natürlich die Grenze entsprechend setzen. Wenn nicht, dann ist einfach erstmal die ganze Straße der entsprechenden Stadt zugeordnet. Das wäre noch immer hundertmal besser, als über die Entfernung zum Stadtzentrum zu raten, was wir momentan machen. Willst du ausserdem die Zuordnung nur bis hinab zur Gemeinde-Ebene oder bis zur Ortsteilebene? Durch den opengeodb-Ansatz mache ich gerade die Zuordnung zum jeweiligen Ortsteil, der wiederum Teil eines Stadtbezirks sein kann, der zur Stadt gehört. Ortsteile sind eine interessante Frage, wo ich mir auch noch nicht so recht schlüssig bin. Bei uns in Landshut weiß jeder so ungefähr, wo die Ortsteile Wolfgangsiedlung, Landshut West, Löschenbrand etc. etc. sind. Aber woher ich weiß, bei welcher Straße genau die Grenze verläuft, ist mir auch noch nicht so klar. Wenn man das weiß, kann man das in Form von Areas einbringen. Wenn nicht, dann bleibt es halt erstmal bei einem Node. -- Gernot ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Worldfile vom 9.1.08
Hallo, das Worldfile steht wieder zum herunterladen zur Verfügung. Die Deutschlandkarte und die Weltkarte können jetzt wieder gleichzeitig in QLandkarte installiert werden, da sie wieder unterschiedlich heissen. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Computerteddy Viele Gruesse Computerteddy ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Zuordung von Strassen zu Orten via Relations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 | Gernot Hillier wrote: | | Oder man k?nnte (Achtung: mein Lieblingsthema) einfach die St?dte als | Areas einzeichnen, wie es, wie ich mittlerweile rausgefunden habe, auch | die FAQ als das korrekte Vorgehen bezeichnet: | | Die Auswertung damit kommt mir zwar recht schwierig vor, das scheint | aber der sinnvollste Ansatz zu sein. | | Woher aber willst du die korrekten Stadtgrenzen bekommen? Verwendest du | als erste Grenzkontur einfach die entsprechenden Stra?en oder willst du | von der Stadt den echten Grenzverlauf? Also ich verwende die Stadt-Polygone bereits sehr erfolgreich zur Zuordnung von Straßen und Orten/PLZ-Polygonen/Stadt-Teilen. Wenn ich selber einen Ort eintrage und die genauen Grenzen nicht kenne, trage ich halt ein großes Viereck oder ähnliches als Polygon ein. Verfeinern kann das immernoch jeder, der will. | Willst du korrekte oder brauchbare Daten? Ich denke beispielsweise an | eine Stra?e hier, die man wohl als hiesige Stra?e bezeichnen w?rde. | Tats?chlich weiss ich aber davon, dass sie mehrfach auf wenigen Metern | die Landkreisgrenzen durchschneidet. Obendrein f?hrt diese Stra?e weiter | zu einem Bauernhof, wo der Landkreis eigentlich postalisch anders | eingestuft ist. Die Stra?e hat ausserhalt der Stadtgrenze noch immer den | gleichen Namen und der Bauernhof wird nicht ?ber den Landkreis | postalisch versorgt, sondern bekommt die Post auf eben jener | Zufahrtsstra?e, hat also die Postleitzahl der Stadt. Eine Straße muss nicht in ihrer gesammten Länge zu einem Ort gehören. Sie kann problemlos zu 2 Haus-An-Haus gebauten Orten gehören oder ein Teil von ihr in einem anderen Bundesland liegen. Das ist halt keine 1:1 -Zuordnung. Funktioniert mit den Polygonen super, ausschließlich mit einer Relation sehe ich das schwierig anzubilden. Welche Relation verwendet ihr, damit ich die in meinen AdressDB-Code und die OSMTagsForRouting-Seite im Wiki eintragen kann? Marcus -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhgtyf1hPnk3Z0cQRAmpwAKCVM4hYPByDUmFCNbdNRPcO8ArgBgCgzaP7 fRwl94LGID+AvTlmTP2KyTc= =hWIG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Javascript-Editor für OSM
Meine Antwort bezieht sich auf folgende Mail vom Mittwoch, 9. Januar 2008 16:15: Nett. Noch ein bischen mehr JavaScript und das Ding wäre noch um einiges besser. Gibts irgendwo nen SVN oder Teilprojekt in dem es darum geht das Ding auszubauen und auf die Hauptseite mit einzubetten? Ich versuche gerade, diesen Ansatz auszubauen. Einen Teil des nötigen JavaScripts habe ich im SVN von OpenLayers gefunden unter http://trac.openlayers.org/browser/sandbox/crschmidt/osm. Gruß Andreas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Duplicated Nodes und wie man sie los wird
Raphael Studer schrieb: Ja, mit dem Validator-Plugin von JOSM gibt es die Möglichkeit das automatisch fixen zu lassen. Allerdings kann es bei Punkten ausserhalb des Download-Rechtecks sein, dass den doppelten Punkten ein nicht heruntergeladener Weg zugeordnet ist. Bei Hochladen kommt dann die etwas verwirrende Meldung Precondition failed. Weshalb wird ein Punkt ausserhalb des Download Rechtecks herunter geladen? Das geschieht doch nur wenn er zu einem Weg gehört und somit wär dieser Weg auch dabei oder? Berechtigte Frage. Ich versuche mal das so zu erklären, wie ich es verstanden habe: Diese Situation kommt vor, wenn wir drei Strassen haben (1, 2, 3). Zwei Strassen (1, 2) sind innerhalb des Download-Rechteck und eine Strasse (3) ist ausserhalb. Wenn nun die beiden Strassen Innerhalb einen doppelten Node ausserhalb des Rechteck haben (n2 und n3 liegen übereinander), und gleichzeitig n2 oder n3 zu einer weiteren Strasse gehören (3), die nicht heruntergeladen wurde, dann kann diese Situation auftreten. Der Validator entfernt einen Node und verbinden die beiden Strassen (1, 2). Der entfernte Node (n3) gehört aber immernoch zu einer vorhanden Strasse (3) und kann daher nicht gelöscht werden, bevor er nicht aus der Strasse entfernt wurde. Dass weiss das Validator-Plugin aber nicht, jedoch das API merkt es und bricht mit dem Fehler Precodition failed ab. Beispiel: Strasse 1: n1 n2 (heruntergeladen) Strasse 2: n3 n5 n6 (heruntergeladen) Strasse 3: n3 n4 (nicht geladen) ++ doppelter Node n2 + n3 || V |0-1-|-0---3---0 n4 |n1 | | || 2 || | |n6 0|-2---0 n5 || ++ Gruess, Andy ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Worldfile vom 9.1.08
Hallo, vielleicht habe ich ja nicht die aktuellen heruntergeladen, aber ich glaube World und D haben immer noch diesselben Namen, nämlich: 6324.tdb und 6324.img Habe ich etwas übersehen? Grüße Cor ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Worldfile vom 9.1.08
Hallo, [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: vielleicht habe ich ja nicht die aktuellen heruntergeladen, aber ich glaube World und D haben immer noch diesselben Namen, nämlich: 6324.tdb und 6324.img Das ist richtig. Und auch im Moment noch so. Habe ich etwas übersehen? Ja, die Karten haben natürlich einen internen Namen, der heisst jetzt einmal OSM De und OSM Map -- Viele Grüße Carsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Bushaltestellen werden verchoben
Mir ist aufgefallen, dass Bushaltestellen seltsamerweise 10-20 Pixel (bei max. zoom) nach links verschoben werden. Ist das normal? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Duplicated Nodes und wie man sie los wird
Ja, mit dem Validator-Plugin von JOSM gibt es die Möglichkeit das automatisch fixen zu lassen. Allerdings kann es bei Punkten ausserhalb des Download-Rechtecks sein, dass den doppelten Punkten ein nicht heruntergeladener Weg zugeordnet ist. Bei Hochladen kommt dann die etwas verwirrende Meldung Precondition failed. Weshalb wird ein Punkt ausserhalb des Download Rechtecks herunter geladen? Das geschieht doch nur wenn er zu einem Weg gehört und somit wär dieser Weg auch dabei oder? Berechtigte Frage. Ich versuche mal das so zu erklären, wie ich es verstanden habe: Diese Situation kommt vor, wenn wir drei Strassen haben (1, 2, 3). Zwei Strassen (1, 2) sind innerhalb des Download-Rechteck und eine Strasse (3) ist ausserhalb. Wenn nun die beiden Strassen Innerhalb einen doppelten Node ausserhalb des Rechteck haben (n2 und n3 liegen übereinander), und gleichzeitig n2 oder n3 zu einer weiteren Strasse gehören (3), die nicht heruntergeladen wurde, dann kann diese Situation auftreten. Der Validator entfernt einen Node und verbinden die beiden Strassen (1, 2). Der entfernte Node (n3) gehört aber immernoch zu einer vorhanden Strasse (3) und kann daher nicht gelöscht werden, bevor er nicht aus der Strasse entfernt wurde. Dass weiss das Validator-Plugin aber nicht, jedoch das API merkt es und bricht mit dem Fehler Precodition failed ab. Beispiel: Strasse 1: n1 n2 (heruntergeladen) Strasse 2: n3 n5 n6 (heruntergeladen) Strasse 3: n3 n4 (nicht geladen) ++ doppelter Node n2 + n3 || V |0-1-|-0---3---0 n4 |n1 | | || 2 || | |n6 0|-2---0 n5 || ++ Nächste Frage: Verhindert die API nicht, dass auf einer Strasse 2 Nodes am selben Ort sind? Dass man während dem einfügen nicht prüfen kann ob 2 Nodes am selben Ort sind glaub ich. Aber dass man das bei einer Strasse tut glaub ich eher. Zudem müsst dann ja jemand diese Strasse so hochgeladen haben (ok das geht vielleicht mit JOSM ohne Plugin - Plugin erzwingen :) Gruss Raphael ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] FOSSGIS 2008 CFP
Moin! FOSSGIS ist die Abkürzung für Freie und Open Source Software für Geoinformationssysteme. Die FOSSGIS 2008 wird vom 1.-3. April 2008 an der Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg stattfinden. Der Call for Papers ist ab sofort offen! Falls Sie einen Beitrag leisten möchten ... Info: http://www.fossgis.de/wiki/index.php/CFP_2008 Auf der FOSSGIS 2007 in Berlin hat Jochen einen interessanten Vortrag gehalten. http://www.fossgis.de/wiki/index.php/Abstracts07#Openstreetmap-Projekt Ich wurde dort angeworben ... ;-) Wer gibt uns dies Jahr einen Update ? -- Frank Jäger ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[OSM-Talk-ZA] Newbie
Let me first explain my setup, this might be usefull to somebody in this group. I have a Nokia E61 phone, which is the center of my GPS world. At times I borrow a bluetooth GPS module (also a Nokia make) from a guy at work. I came across a utility written by Nokia called Nokia Sports Tracker. Sports Tracker is very cool little program which allows sporty people (this would exclude me) to record their GPS tracks, times. It gives the current heading, average speed, height and even plots the track you currently doing on a black background. This tracks then gets recorded on the phones memory somewhere. These can then be exported into the following formats (I hope this is correct, the software decided to update itself, and it doesnt want to start up): GPX Google Earth CSV XML Ok,this is my story. I live in Somerset West, and there is hardly any maps in my area. So when I do have the GPS unit I record everywhere I go. So I have a bunch of tracks recorded and exported to GPX. I have played around a bit with the JOSM app. And this is where I need some help. Im not sure what Im doing.I go about creating ways between the node recorded from the GPS. But I see there is a node every couple of meters. So do I create ways between every node? I know this will create huge amounts of ways/data. Like I said, im a bit lost at this point. Or is it better for me to upload all the tracks via the web and make them public? So any help/comments/criticism is welcome. Regards Johann Muller ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Newbie
I have played around a bit with the JOSM app. And this is where I need some help. Im not sure what Im doing.I go about creating ways between the node recorded from the GPS. But I see there is a node every couple of meters. So do I create ways between every node? I know this will create huge amounts of ways/data. Usually a GPS records more points than are necessary to accurately describe the road network. Furthermore, tracks frequently include a few bad points. So simply converting the GPX layer to OSM is rarely advisable. Too much data won't overload the servers (anymore). But it may overload us. Nodes that are closer than say 1m to each other can be a nuisance to work with. I assume that you know that a way can span many nodes. Let my explain my work flow step by step : 1. Open JOSM, then open the GPX which will appear in gray. 2. Zoom in. Download the current data. 3. Look for existing ways that can be extended. As long as the name does not change. Normally you can just select the last node of the way you want to extend, but when 2 or more ways end at the node, you will have to select both the node and the way before using 'N' mode. 4. Create new ways : Shift click first node, then click, click, click. Very fast. Set tags (names) as you go. 5. Upload. Like I said, im a bit lost at this point. Or is it better for me to upload all the tracks via the web and make them public? I only upload tracks so others will later be able to work out which junctions I visited when they spot incorrect names or tags. ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] admin_level=6 pour les départe ments
Pieren Pieren a écrit : Quelqu'un a-t-il déjà tenté de créer les frontières administratives (boundary=administrative) pour les départements et/ou les régions ? J'ai vainement cherché une source dans le domaine public pour les départements et aussi incroyable que cela puisse paraître, je n'ai trouvé que l'IGN qui délivre ce genre de données mais elles ne sont gratuites que pour un usage personnel, la license étant incompatible avec celle d'OSM (la license CCbySA2.0 autorisant un usage commercial des données). Si quelqu'un connait une autre source possible... Bonjour, Je pense qu'il y a un peu de lobbying à faire auprès de nos élus à ce niveau. Ca ne devrait pas être si compliqué de les persuader que les données représentant les limites administratives sont du domaine publique (et devrait être publié au BO). Il y a plein d'autres données qui peuvent continuer à financer l'IGN. -- Stéphane Urbanovski ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Paris sans les labels
Etienne Cherdlu fait des essais en ce moment sur les petits niveaux de zoom avec osmarender. Il utilise entre autre Paris pour voir le rendu. Enfin bref, on peut voir Paris et ses alentours sur informationfreeway sans tous les noms de villes, et avec plus de détail que d'habitudes à ces niveaux de zoom. http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=48.4003184408lon=2.3557318537840666zoom=11layers=F00BF Joli comme tout ! 80n a écrit : I've now generated new lowzoom tiles from z8 to z11 for a bit of southern England and the area around Paris. http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=50.978160128899574lon=-0.47549776570684626user=80nzoom=8layers=F00BT http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=48.358820794158916lon=2.529262325668118user=80nzoom=8layers=F00BT The Paris tile was a worst-case scenario using the old lowzoom method, so I thought it would be a good test case. Comments please. 80n ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] admin_level=6 pour les départe ments
Pieren Pieren a écrit : Quelqu'un a-t-il déjà tenté de créer les frontières administratives (boundary=administrative) pour les départements et/ou les régions ? J'ai vainement cherché une source dans le domaine public pour les départements Je connais bien un ingénieur issu de l'IGN par sa formation et qui travaille actuellement sur les données géographiques de la Ville de Paris, je vais lui poser la question. Il y a actuellement une discussion assez fournie sur la liste OSM principale sur la façon de tagguer les limites administratives. Je n'ai pas l'impression qu'un consensus clair soit établi. J'en profite pour signaler au personnes qui mappent sur Paris que je m'occupe chaque semaine de mettre à jour les modifications de voirie officielles qui paraissent au Bulletin Officiel de la Ville du Département de Paris (BMO-BDO, publication bihebdomadaire). Il se peut d'ailleurs que parfois ces informations ne correspondent pas à la réalité en attendant que les services de la voirie mettent à jour la signalisation, merci donc de ne pas supprimer ces informations si vous voyez dans l'historique que la mise à jour est récente. En ce moment, l'essentiel des modifications concerne la création de contresens cyclables et des limitations à 30 ou 15 km/h. Simon ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] admin_level=6 pour les départe ments
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : J'en profite pour signaler au personnes qui mappent sur Paris que je m'occupe chaque semaine de mettre à jour les modifications de voirie officielles qui paraissent au Bulletin Officiel de la Ville du Département de Paris (BMO-BDO, publication bihebdomadaire). Il se peut d'ailleurs que parfois ces informations ne correspondent pas à la réalité en attendant que les services de la voirie mettent à jour la signalisation, merci donc de ne pas supprimer ces informations si vous voyez dans l'historique que la mise à jour est récente. Tu peux éventuellement ajouter un tag pour dire d'où vient l'info... ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] admin_level=6 pour les départe ments
Effectivement, l'avis de cette personne sera intéressant. Pour ce qui concerne le tag admin_level, je n'ai pas l'impression qu'il soit remis en cause. C'est plutot la façon de localiser des objets avec is_in qui pose d'avantage questions, me semble-t-il. Comme cela a déjà été mentionné, ce tag (combiné avec boundary=administrative) pourrait avoir de multiples usages comme des statistiques, extraction de listes (par exemple villes, villages, hameaux) par département, création de fond de carte avec tout ou partie des départements, agrégation pour les régions, etc... Pieren On Jan 10, 2008 5:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pieren Pieren a écrit : Quelqu'un a-t-il déjà tenté de créer les frontières administratives (boundary=administrative) pour les départements et/ou les régions ? J'ai vainement cherché une source dans le domaine public pour les départements Je connais bien un ingénieur issu de l'IGN par sa formation et qui travaille actuellement sur les données géographiques de la Ville de Paris, je vais lui poser la question. Il y a actuellement une discussion assez fournie sur la liste OSM principale sur la façon de tagguer les limites administratives. Je n'ai pas l'impression qu'un consensus clair soit établi. J'en profite pour signaler au personnes qui mappent sur Paris que je m'occupe chaque semaine de mettre à jour les modifications de voirie officielles qui paraissent au Bulletin Officiel de la Ville du Département de Paris (BMO-BDO, publication bihebdomadaire). Il se peut d'ailleurs que parfois ces informations ne correspondent pas à la réalité en attendant que les services de la voirie mettent à jour la signalisation, merci donc de ne pas supprimer ces informations si vous voyez dans l'historique que la mise à jour est récente. En ce moment, l'essentiel des modifications concerne la création de contresens cyclables et des limitations à 30 ou 15 km/h. Simon ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Deuxième article sur Openstreetmap sur vnunet cette fois-ci
Je pensais - à tort - qu'une présentation écrite avait été utilisée. Il existe bien une page pour la presse sur le wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Fr:Portal:Press) qui n'a pas vraiment bougé depuis Aout 2007. Je ne connaissait pas cette statistique de 5% par semaine, c'est pas mal ! Il y a bien une page de statistiques sur le wiki mais pour toute base de données, et je ne sais pas si elle est vraiment à jour. Quand tu dis j'ai expliqué pourquoi Navteq ou Teleatlas ne pouvaient pas réutiliser nos données pour leurs cartes.. Je dois dire que je ne comprends pas. Je croyais justement que la license CCbySA permettait l'exploitation commerciale, et rien n'empêche Navteq et Teleatlas d'utiliser les données d'OSM à condition d'en faire la mention quelque part, ou bien ? C'est peut-être ça qui peut les empêcher effectivement de le faire (publiquement en tout cas). D'ailleurs, je pense que ces deux firmes doivent garder un oeil attentif sur ce projet et peut-etre utilisent-elles déjà des logiciels de comparaison avec OSM pour corriger leurs propres erreurs ou lancer des vérifications, car les erreurs, approximations ou obsolescences sont légions dans ces produits commerciaux (ça m'a moi-même étonné tellement elles sont facile ä trouver dès qu'on va dans le détail). Il n'y qu'à se souvenir des débuts de wikipedia alors que le peu d'encyclopédies en ligne de l'époque étaient toutes payantes... Pieren On 1/11/08, Frédéric Bonifas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: J'ai essayé de préparer mais ensuite le journaliste est le seul à rédiger et je n'ai pas pu relire l'article avant la publication. L'entretien s'est fait par téléphone et apparemment certains mots ont été oubliés (par exemple je parlais d'une croissance d'environ 5% de la taille des données pour la France PAR SEMAINE (d'après les cartes pour Garmin que je génère régulièrement) mais les deux derniers mots ont été omis ce qui enlève tout le sens). Même problème pour la licence et l'utilisation commerciale, il y a eu sans doute une mauvaise interprétation lorsque j'ai expliqué pourquoi Navteq ou Teleatlas ne pouvaient pas réutiliser nos données pour leurs cartes. Je demanderai à lire l'article avant qu'il ne soit publié la prochaine fois. Frédéric Le 10/01/08, Pieren Pieren[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : j'espère que ce genre d'articles va augmenter le nombre de participants de manière significative. Il y a encore tellement de zones non couvertes... L'article de ZDnet montre qu'il faut bien préparer sa présentation pour un article auprès de ces organes de presse. Malheureusement les journalistes ne prennent pas beaucoup de temps pour vérifier sur le site lui-même ce qui s'y passe et il faut donc bien leur prémâcher le boulot... chez ZDNet en tout cas... Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [Talk-GB] Oxford hi-res on Yahoo
http://maps.yahoo.com/broadband/#mvt=slat=52.949414lon=-1.178971mag=4 PS, I also discovered several other new areas of coverage last night. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Yahoo%21_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage Gregory -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russ Phillips Sent: 10 January 2008 12:17 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Oxford hi-res on Yahoo On Thu, January 10, 2008 12:00 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:24:09 - From: Gregory Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Part of Nottingham also appears to have been added to the coverage. :-) That's good news. Do you have a URL or lat/lon? Russ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Oxford hi-res on Yahoo
On Thu, January 10, 2008 2:19 pm, Gregory Williams wrote: http://maps.yahoo.com/broadband/#mvt=slat=52.949414lon=-1.178971mag=4 PS, I also discovered several other new areas of coverage last night. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Yahoo%21_Aerial_Imagery/Coverage Excellent, thank you. I'd forgotten about that wiki page :-/ Russ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
