date:20090816

Hi,

Implementing the outcome of what the working group comes up with is not an 
issue IMO. We have the presets in the editors and the errors in keepright. 
Together those are way more powerful than any discussion here or even the 
mapfeatures page.. My guess is that the developers those projects will be 
very happy with clear guidance on the 'rules'.

The main task of the working group would be to search through mailing list(s), 
discussion pages etc. and decide what the outcome is. The way I see it all 
the pieces are there it is just unclear as to what the outcome/conclusion is.
So the goal would be to collect all the points of view, weigh them and present 
their conclusion.

The wiki page could have an extra tab where the outcome of the working group 
presents their result. If unhappy comments turn up on the mailing list they 
could decide to go a second round. When they have finished a subject the  
mapfeature would be updated. Also they would inform the various developers 
groups (editors, keepright, stylesheets) of the status quo, and hopefully 
there is a contact for the translated mapfeatures pages.

The working group would decide which feature to tackle, but there could also 
be a 'wishlist' where requests could be put up and be voted on to get an 
order of priority helping them which feature to tackle next.

I am not a big fan of voting. Sometimes it is necessary to cut a long 
discussion short where one needs to 'force' an agreement. So voting the way 
it is now where those involved in the discussion do the voting IMO doesn't 
need to change.

The hard part as I see it is who gets to decide who is in the working group. 
Is it a fixed group where we vote who gets in? Maybe ad hoc groups where 
someone announces on this mailing list they want to tackle a feature and 
invites others to join? When is a group a group? The working group will need 
some kind of authority to work, otherwise they will just be ignored and 
ineffective.

Lambert Carsten


On Sunday 16 August 2009 01:51:43 James Livingston wrote:
 On 16/08/2009, at 2:20 AM, Tom Chance wrote:
  Probably sensible to start with something more manageable than path/
  highway.
  Maybe the forest/wood debate.

 Sounds good to me. The important thing is that the group has their
 goals set out explicitly, so they know exactly what they should be
 doing, and they know when they're finished.

 To me, this means that we need to collect a complete list of all the
 tree/wood/forest-related things that people may want to add to OSM
 (even if they already have tagging solutions), with good descriptions,
 if possible photos and what implications people think they have. The
 WG could then sit down and figure out which of them are actually the
 same, and then find a good tagging scheme.


 I think the complete list of what we want to tag is something we're
 missing in the current arguments. How are we supposed to know if what
 people are talking about are actually the same thing? Especially since
 language is an issue, either not having English as a first language,
 or not having the same English (e.g. British vs Australia vs American).

  The one missing part to work out is how we respond to the proposal.
  The best
  thing I can imagine is if we could set-up a poll that uses our
  OSM.org logins
  and we notify as many users as possible through every channel
  available. We
  could set the bar at something like 1000 votes and a 66% majority
  needed.

 I think that if the WG comes up with a solution after taking into
 account, then it would likely be acceptable to most people. If not,
 then it probably didn't represent a crosssection of the community, or
 people didn't add their items to the list of things to tag.

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[OSM-talk] copyright problem with data copied from a map

2009-08-16 Thread Renaud MICHEL

Hello

Two weeks ago, I found problem in Dison, Belgium, see here
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.6044lon=5.8522zoom=14
At that moment, the motorway had been shifted north-west by user Neo while 
adding other roads.
I moved it back to correspond to GPS traces and messaged Neo about the 
problem.

He did some more edits, see http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Neo/edits and 
that's when I realised that he was actually copying an actual map. He 
actually put the bounding box of his map 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38566375

He confirmed a week later that he was really copying a map he scanned and 
loaded in JOSM (not rectifying it, so the shifted roads).
He was obviously not aware of the copyright problem as he asked me, in the 
same message, if he could somehow copy the map from his tomtom.

I replied one week ago explaining why he must not do that and asking him to 
remove all the edits he made based on that map, but had no more answer so 
far.
So now I'm thinking about removing those edits myself, but am not sure 
what's the best way to do so.

I don't know if the changeset can be reverted, as there are many of them, 
and I also did some edits there (changeset #1997354 #2005715 #2046924 a 
least) before knowing of the copyright problem.

Any advice?
I think I'm going to remove all this by hand with JOSM.
But the ways will still be present in the DB with the history. Can we do 
something about this?

cheers
-- 
Renaud Michel

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Postal an idea to extend Walking-Papers to not connected people

2009-08-16 Thread maning sambale

1. Gridlines/graticules - makes it easier to interpolate relative distances.

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:38 AM, Michal Migurskim...@stamen.com wrote:
 It is really an excellent idea. I was planning to organize a walking
 paper mail out in my home town in a few months to see how it could
 work out. I was planning in my case to contact the mayor office to
 see if I could coordinate with them if they were interested.
 The idea of postcard is very good.  If you need help, let me know I
 will see what I could do.

 I printed out two copies each of six areas in Liverpool and left them
 in two cafés. On the other side of the paper I put some text briefly
 describing the project and asking that people either hand it in to one
 of the cafés or scan it in and email it to me - didn't have much space
 and I was hoping people realised they could post it back if they
 wanted. So far I don't know if anyone has completed an area, I'm not
 aware of them being handed in and haven't received an email, but I
 know a few have been taken and they even got me in touch with a
 Slovakian person with an interest in OSM who happened to be in
 Liverpool!

 If you're interested this is what I put on the reverse side, if I do
 it again I'll add a title saying what area is covered though in my
 case it should have been guessable from the existing coverage:

 http://johnmckerrell.com/files/osm-walking-papers-cover.pdf

 Cool!

 I made the mistake of ignoring my OSM-talk mail for a few days, I'm
 really happy to see that people are thinking of ways to work with
 Walking Papers. I've been building up some steam to work on another
 set of change requests, now's the time to ask if you have a pet
 feature you'd like to see added. =)

 -mike.

 
 michal migurski- m...@stamen.com
                  415.558.1610




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-- 
cheers,
maning
--
Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] OPENSTREETMAP FOUNDATION - NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

2009-08-16 Thread Mike Collinson

At 02:20 AM 16/08/2009, Richard Weait wrote:
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:43 AM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote:
...


 Do you and Steve have any comment on Richard Weait's suggestion that
 from every commercial organisation, at most one person should be a
 member of the OSMF board (http://weait.com/cloudmade-layoffs)? I'm very
 supportive of that, although not exactly out of fear that you might both
 be looking for a new job at the same time, but more along the lines of
 what RichardF said in the comments section on that page.

 This would mean that *either* your *or* SteveC should be on the board
 but not both of you. It is of course everyone's right to stand for
 election and let the voters decide if they support Richard's suggestion
 or not - but I would be interested in hearing your opinion.

Nick followed up several times, but I can't see any answer to
Frederik's direct question.  I'd like to hear replies from each of the
candidates on this.

Should any single company be able to hold an unlimited number of seats
on the Foundation board?  A majority?  All?

How does this benefit the Foundation and the community?

If you believe that there should be some limit; legal, moral or
otherwise, where do you think it should be?

I believe that as members we are sensible and will collectively elect an 
appropriate board.  So, my personal opinion is that I'd like to vote for good 
quality candidates whoever they are and that having a hard constitutional limit 
is not an important issue for me, though one that should certainly be debated 
by members so that all views are reflected.  I am not averse to such a limit 
but take the position that it is not the best way to go about it.  

The key is having a diverse membership.  I can affirm from the membership list 
that we are in such a position now.  Having a larger membership would be still 
safer.  As of today we have 165 paid-up members who can vote and hover around 
200 taking into account renewals.  250 is my minimum goal. Local chapter 
organisation should see us easily to that figure ... so that is my fix!


Mike 



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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

2009-08-16 Thread Marc Schütz

  Still I think a case could be made for country names to be different:
 most of them are so prominent that I would say they exist in most languages,
 even if they are identical to the native names.
  
  For example, the German names for most European countries are different
 from their native names. However, Portugal happens to have the same name
 (well, spelling) in German and in Portugese. Would you therefore say, that
 Portugal doesn't have a German name?
  
 It has one, but that's not a translation - rust a repetition. And 
 name:xx-tags are (in my opinion), basically translation-tags.
 
 Nevertheless I don't like different rules for similar things, so i don't 
 want to have a different rule for countries as for cities. It's a rule 
 in quotation marks, because no one forces you to remove those tags and 
 if you want to add them for a language, i won't go and delete them.

Well, the common rule for both cities and countries would then be: If it has a 
name in language xxx, then add a name:xxx tag (and don't care if it has the 
same value as name), else leave it.

Although this basically follows from the on the ground rule, it would 
probably be very subjective to decide.

Anyway, I don't have a strong opinion on this anymore. As you and Martin have 
pointed out, it will probably make no difference in practice, as name will be 
taken as a fallback.

Regards, Marc

-- 
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[OSM-talk] Josm API error

Hi,

Does anyone know what this means and what to do about it?

Upload to OSM API failed
Uploading failed.
NameError: uninitialized constant Changeset::SCALE(Code=500)

except that the upload failed :)

Josm version 1979
Java version 1.6.9-15

Lambert Carsten


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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

2009-08-16 Thread Maarten Deen

Peter Körner wrote:
 Hello OSM folks
 
 For the integration of osm into the wikipedia there will be localized 
 maps in all languages that have their own wikipedia. The problem is, 
 that a lot of countries are not translated yet.
 
 To get an overview over the status and make translating those countries 
 more easy, I created a tool that can be found at
 
http://cassini.toolserver.org/~mazder/multilingual-country-list/
 
 I'd like to encourage everyone to spend some time making translated maps 
 better. Comments welcome!

Some translations show up orange. What does that signify?

And a typo: endlish - english

Regards,
Maarten

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[OSM-talk] Using OSM on a handheld GPS

2009-08-16 Thread Martin Hvidberg

I thought about the possibility to us OSM with a hand held GPS (for 
geocaching).

My question:
1) Can any body confirm if this is possible/not-possible?
2) What GPS hardware would support this (I'm looking at a Garmin eTrex)

Best
Martin


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Re: [OSM-talk] Josm API error

Lambert Carsten schrieb:
 Hi,

 Does anyone know what this means and what to do about it?

 Upload to OSM API failed
 Uploading failed.
 NameError: uninitialized constant Changeset::SCALE(Code=500)

 except that the upload failed :)
   
Try again ;)
firefishy reverted some changes causing these problems.

regards

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Re: [OSM-talk] Josm API error

On Sunday 16 August 2009 12:26:55 SLXViper wrote:
 Lambert Carsten schrieb:
  Hi,
 
  Does anyone know what this means and what to do about it?
 
  Upload to OSM API failed
  Uploading failed.
  NameError: uninitialized constant Changeset::SCALE(Code=500)
 
  except that the upload failed :)

 Try again ;)
 firefishy reverted some changes causing these problems.
Tried several times already but this time it worked  :)
Thanks!

Lambert Carsten

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Re: [OSM-talk] Using OSM on a handheld GPS

Martin Hvidberg schrieb:
 I thought about the possibility to us OSM with a hand held GPS (for 
 geocaching).
   

Have you looked at these pages?
- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin
- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Garmin
 My question:
 1) Can any body confirm if this is possible/not-possible?
   

It is possible, even with routing support

 2) What GPS hardware would support this (I'm looking at a Garmin eTrex)
   

All Garmin etrex, gpsmap, colorado, oregon, etc which are able to
display normal garmin maps.
See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Garmin


regards

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Re: [OSM-talk] Crazy routing in OpenRouteService

2009-08-16 Thread Steve Hill

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Pascal Neis wrote:

please, could you try it again?
For me it works, http://bit.ly/HDgbO

The coordinates you've gone to there are different from the ones I gave in
my original report - you've gone to -4.1307375,53.1501034 whereas I used
-4.119322,53.145316. I have just retested and now get an error that there
isn't a street within 300 metres, which is rather more sensible than the
route I was given before.

It seems, that it was a OSM data problem, thx!

I'm not sure how this can be put down to an OSM data problem - the
destination point should have been projected onto the nearest road (i.e.
something that wasn't highway=road, since OpenRoutingService doesn't
treat these as roads). This isn't what happened - instead it sent me on
some crazy route via Europe and hundreds of miles into the middle of the
North Sea. This has now been fixed by disallowing destinations over 300
metres from a road.

The underlying problem is still there though - for example, this route
projects the destination point (just North of Swansea, Wales) onto a
shipping lane in the middle of the Irish sea instead of a nearby
highway=tertiary:
http://data.giub.uni-bonn.de/openrouteservice/index.php?start=-3.9440128,51.680206end=-3.946695,51.6843037pref=Fastestlang=denoMotorways=falsenoTollways=false

So there is something rather wrong with the algorithm that finds the
nearest road to project the destination point onto.

the highway=road tag is a a temporary tag, or?
A road of unknown classification. This is intended as a temporary
tag to mark a road until it has been properly surveyed. Once it has
been surveyed, the classification should be updated to the
appropriate value. [1]

Yes, it is a temporary tag to allow roads to be added without being
properly surveyed (e.g. I know I drove down here, I have a GPS track but
I didn't spend the time to note down what the road was like so I can't
give it a classification). It is used quite a lot by people who collect
tracks as they drive around, even when they can't spend the time to
properly survey an area. It was added to prevent unknown
classifications being added as highway=unclassified (which is what was
happenning a lot previously).

There might be some sense in trying to avoid routing people via
highway=road since we don't know what they are like (could be anything
from a tiny single track road to a big dual carriageway). However, where
the only possible way to reach a destination is via a highway=road or
highway=track, the routing algorithm probably needs to allow this.

i.e. if you are trying to get to a farm that is connected to the road
network by a dirt track (highway=track), you want the route to take you
down that track - this isn't an error in the data that should be fixed.
The only other alternatives are:
1. Tell the user that their destination is unreachable - this is wrong.
2. Project the destination onto the nearest road that isn't a
highway=track - this could lead the user onto completely the wrong road,
rather than the road that has the track connected to it.

- Steve
xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/

Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] OPENSTREETMAP FOUNDATION - NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

2009-08-16 Thread Richard Weait

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:24 AM, James Brownjbr...@jwbsystems.com wrote:
 I agree.  I think that the best course is to let the electorate decide in
 each election.

 I'd add that I do not see any real alternative.

Sure you see an alternative.  You go on to describe it below.  ;-)

 If we set a limit on the
 number of board seats that people who work for the same company can hold, do
 we either:
  a. Prevent more than one person from any company from standing together (or
 standing if there is a current board member not up for reelection)
  b. Wait till the votes are in and then, if we have more than one elected
 person from the same company force one to stand down?

 And, as just occured to me... What if a board member goes to work, after
 they are elected, for the same company as another board member?  Do they
 stand down?

Jim I think that you have pointed out exactly the three guidelines for
Foundation nominees and board members.

 This really feels to me like something that should just be left to the
 desires of the community as expressed in the elections.

Some things are dealt with more effectively from the foundation point
of view, then presented to the membership and community at large.  All
starting with perhaps a single comment by a single community member.
I think the ODbL discussions followed that form.

Some have suggested that it is too difficult to put such protections
in place.  But we are mapping the world, one post box at a time.  We
are really good at difficult.

From the Foundation side, the benefit of diverse board members is
obvious: Breadth of experience, knowledge, contacts and industries
make for a very well informed board.  Any board will find solutions
that benefit the Foundation and community.  Those solutions will also
be beneficial to the outside interests of the board members involved
(otherwise they would excuse themselves as conflicted).  I maintain
that any given solution or initiative recommended by the board that
considers a great number of diverse interests is better that one that
considers fewer interests.  Having different companies on the board is
better.

I have to imagine that the benefits of one-person-per-company are
worthwhile from the company perspective as well: The time committed to
the Board is time taken away from the board member's job at the
company.  And the time commitment can be substantial.  The board
minutes[1] record several cases where board members had to leave
meetings early or show up late due to other business obligations.  Why
would a single business require more than one member, and commit
double, treble or more resources to the board?  Surely a single board
member is capable of representing the company concerns, interests and
opportunities for collaboration.

What is it from the company point of view that appeals about having
more than one member on a board and that is worth the additional
committed resources?

 Jim Brown -CTO CloudMade

Best regards,
Richard

[1] http://foundation.openstreetmap.org/officers-board/board-meeting-minutes/

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[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway

2009-08-16 Thread Tom Chance

Please vote on this proposal:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Miniature_railway

Miniature railways have track gauges from 2.5 (64mm) to 7.25 (184mm) and 
usually carry passengers. Passengers usually ride on top of the carriages not 
in them. These are sometimes found in parks, public/private gardens and 
tourist attractions.

This differs greatly from narrow gauge which has a gauge on average of 3.5' 
(1067mm) and passengers travel in carriages.

This also differs from model railways which have a track width less than 2.5 
(64mm) and don't carry passengers.

Regards,
Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-16 Thread Nick Whitelegg

So a public footpath which the council has converted into a cycleway 
(part of a future cycle network if the council ever commit funds to 
complete their decade old plan) which is segregated in some sections and 
unsegregated in others is possibly a footway with bicycle=permissive?
 
I think I?ve currently got it tagged as a cycleway with 
designation=public_footpath (as the public footpath signs are still there, 
despite the ?upgrade?). 
 
Bold formatting below added by me.
 
Ed

Yes, I would say so, though I'm not sure of the law on council-designated 
cycleways. I would guess they aren't true public rights of way for 
cyclists, and the permission could be removed at any time without the same 
legal protection that true rights of way have.

In the UK I would tag such a path as foot=designated;bicycle=permissive; 
and pragmatically highway=footway for the moment, using the 
generally-accepted definition of footway as urban surfaced path 
(though would prefer highway=path; surface=paved)

Nick
 











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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway

2009-08-16 Thread Lester Caine

Tom Chance wrote:
 Please vote on this proposal:
 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Miniature_railway
 
 Miniature railways have track gauges from 2.5 (64mm) to 7.25 (184mm) and 
 usually carry passengers. Passengers usually ride on top of the carriages not 
 in them. These are sometimes found in parks, public/private gardens and 
 tourist attractions.
 
 This differs greatly from narrow gauge which has a gauge on average of 3.5' 
 (1067mm) and passengers travel in carriages.
 
 This also differs from model railways which have a track width less than 2.5 
 (64mm) and don't carry passengers.

I'd recommend synchronising this with wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_railway

A lot of work has been done there between the various types of model/miniature
railway, and that page has a fairly comprehensive list of 'ridable' miniature
railways. Separate form narrow gauge which tend to be 'full size'

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php


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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway

--- On Sun, 16/8/09, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 I'd recommend synchronising this with wikipedia
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_railway
 
 A lot of work has been done there between the various types
 of model/miniature
 railway, and that page has a fairly comprehensive list of
 'ridable' miniature
 railways. Separate form narrow gauge which tend to be 'full
 size'

Some of those border on light rail or narrow gauge, looking at some of the 
photos it looks like regular railway track.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Bure_Valley_Railway_DSC00533.jpg

Compared to something like this:

http://scrms.org.au/files/IMGP5229.JPG


  

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OpenStreetView: Digital Photos: Getting the field of view angle

2009-08-16 Thread Richard Weait

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Vincent MEURISSEosm-...@meurisse.org wrote:

 In fact you don't really need the size of film (captor size). Most of the
 camera store the focal in both real and equivalent distance.
 If I take a random picture from a nikon D300 the exif information contain
 this:
 Focal Length: 70mm
 Focal Length In 35mm Film: 105mm
 Digital zoom ratio: 1.0

 So with the equivalent focal and the digital zoom, you can get your angle.

Vincent is correct.  Those calculations will help as a rule of thumb.

Back before I had to tell you kids to get off my lawn, everybody used
35mm film and dimensions were set in stone.  43.3, 36, 24.  We had it
all memorized, then those wacky CCDs came along with their 2/3-format
and 1/2-format in which none of the dimensions are actually the
dimension for which the format is named.  Oh, those were heady days.
Slide rules and drafting tables for everyone!  But you kids these
days, you know better, with your CCDs and your CMOS sensors and your
varying aspect ratios.  The old rules of thumb are likely to break
your brain.  So go to first principles and get off my lawn.

Ideally, you'll find the actual dimensions of the camera sensor in
your device.  This can be hard to find.  N95, you say?  I see links
that suggest a CMOS sensor of 2582x1944 pixels[1].  Kodak has a
similar 5MP CMOS device with 2592x1944 and 2.2 micron (square) pixels.
 Other manufacturers may vary in ways that matter to you on the
details.  Find the real sensor data sheet if you can.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/Products/DiscontinuedProducts/index.jhtml

Sensor width: 2592 x 2.2 microns = 5.7024mm
Sensor height: 1944 x 2.2 microns = 4.2768mm
Focal length: 5.6 mm[1]

Tan(angle/2)=size of film/(2*focal)

aFOV(h)=  14.28 degrees, thank you Wolfram Alpha
aFOV(v)=  10.81 degrees

But this is still an approximation, and based on an ideal lens with no
aberrations. It should get you started. ;-)

Best regards,
Richard

[1] http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Nokia_N95-part_3_the_Camera.php

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-16 Thread Mike Harris

Roy

Interesting - I'd not looked at that one. I have myself already been
confusing the wiki pages for 'designated' and 'designation'. The one that I
tend to favour in terms of my own mapping (heavily oriented towards off-road
and tights of way in England) is 'designation'
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Designation . This
works  quite well for me - when used as an expression of formal legal
status, together with the existing apparently most common practice in
England of using highway=footway/bridleway/byway/track/path/cycleway as the
primary tag + foot/bicycle/horse/motorcar=yes/no as a description of the
situation on the ground and/or signed + surface= or tracktype= for the
actual condition as seen on the ground + access= used only in a limited way
to indicate privacy or similar restrictions. I got there by an evolutionary
process and it does seem to cover most of what I need. But I would be the
first to admit that that doesn't make it right for anyone else or 'right' in
any 'absolute' sense. What the use of designation= helped most with was
separating out a description of legal/administrative status (mostly derived
from publicly available and non-copyright sources developed by highway
authorities) from the more usual description of what was 'on the ground' or
could be deduced from signage. The latter is of general utility; the more
legal stuff is very useful for those of us concerned with rights of way in
England and Wales and is also slowly making OSM more useful to local
authorities (and others who have their own problems with over-enthusiastic
OS licensing). It also adds something to OSM that is NOT on OS maps - as
they their recording of rights of way is quite often very out of date and
quite often erroneous.

Happy mapping anyway!

Mike Harris

-Original Message-
From: Roy Wallace [mailto:waldo000...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 August 2009 23:37
To: Mike Harris
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; Nick Whitelegg
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Mike Harrismik...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Roy

 Could you give reference to your wiki quote? I can see for =designated at:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Ddesignated

 QUOTE

 This tag indicates that a route has been specially designated 
 (typically by a government) for use by a particular mode (or modes) of
transport.

 UNQUOTE

 There is apparently, perhaps unsurprisingly, some ambiguity in the wiki.

Sure - my quotes were from:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access. This needs to be cleared up.




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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik render

Peteris Krisjanis schrieb:
 HI there!
 
 I am new to this list, so if this question is already answered, please
 don't be harsh :)
 I browsed archive, and I didn't saw anything for answer, but maybe I
 didn't look hard enough.
 
 As far as I understand mapnik render rules have been subject of change
 recently. I did a string of changes of my home town Ogre, Latvia
 yesterday. Today, there is still no indication of anything new in
 mapnik slip map render (osmarender has bugs, but have rendered all of
 it). Tried to apply /dirty to permalink - still nothing.
 
 So question is what are rules of mapnik rendering now?
 
 Permalink in question is:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.81532lon=24.59946zoom=16layers=B000FTF
 
 Thanks everyone for great work on OSM,
 cheers,
 Peter.
 

The /dirty-flag is applied to the tile-paths, e.g.
   http://a.tile.openstreetmap.org/16/37245/20138.png/dirty
and marks this single tile on this single zoomlevel as dirty. This can 
only be done a number of times each week (afaik).

Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] [english 95%] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-16 Thread Mike Harris

Hi

I agree with almost of all of what Lambert says. I would think that the
actual membership of any working group would need to include two broad
classes of people: (a) those with a long-term knowledge of OSM, how it works
and how the whole nexus of software/mapping/rendering/data_use hangs
together; (b) those with some specialist knowledge of the particular topic -
i.e. mostly different people for wood/forest/... to those for
cemetery/graveyard/burial_ground/crematorium/human_waste_disposal_site or
path/track/footway 

It goes without saying (almost) that there has to be some sort of
'geopolitical'/linguistic balance if the group is to take a 'world view'.

Who gets to decide who is in? Tough one ... But maybe a very crude stab at
an initial model would be (only once the job is spec'd - i.e. what is the
job, what work product is expected, what are the criteria for completion and
success): Step 1: canvas widely within the OSM community for interested
volunteers and nominations (nominations only with the permission of the
person nominated); Step 2: publish the list widely (with perhaps name= ,
interest= , special knowledge= , geographical location= , language(s)= and
give an opportunity for objections (if any) and further nominations; Step 3:
create a final list; Step 4: random selection of subsets of names from the
list to get the right sort of total number (whatever that might be!) - i.e.
subset of names to represent geography; a subset of names to represent
language; a subset of names to represent skills needed in the group; Step 5:
add subsets to form group. OK - I am not going to defend this - treat it as
a thought process starter!

Mike Harris

-Original Message-
From: Lambert Carsten [mailto:lhc@solcon.nl] 
Sent: 16 August 2009 08:41
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [english 95%] A process for rethinking map features

Hi,

Implementing the outcome of what the working group comes up with is not an
issue IMO. We have the presets in the editors and the errors in keepright. 
Together those are way more powerful than any discussion here or even the
mapfeatures page.. My guess is that the developers those projects will be
very happy with clear guidance on the 'rules'.

The main task of the working group would be to search through mailing
list(s), discussion pages etc. and decide what the outcome is. The way I see
it all the pieces are there it is just unclear as to what the
outcome/conclusion is.
So the goal would be to collect all the points of view, weigh them and
present their conclusion.

The wiki page could have an extra tab where the outcome of the working group
presents their result. If unhappy comments turn up on the mailing list they
could decide to go a second round. When they have finished a subject the
mapfeature would be updated. Also they would inform the various developers
groups (editors, keepright, stylesheets) of the status quo, and hopefully
there is a contact for the translated mapfeatures pages.

The working group would decide which feature to tackle, but there could also
be a 'wishlist' where requests could be put up and be voted on to get an
order of priority helping them which feature to tackle next.

I am not a big fan of voting. Sometimes it is necessary to cut a long
discussion short where one needs to 'force' an agreement. So voting the way
it is now where those involved in the discussion do the voting IMO doesn't
need to change.

The hard part as I see it is who gets to decide who is in the working group.

Is it a fixed group where we vote who gets in? Maybe ad hoc groups where
someone announces on this mailing list they want to tackle a feature and
invites others to join? When is a group a group? The working group will need
some kind of authority to work, otherwise they will just be ignored and
ineffective.

Lambert Carsten


On Sunday 16 August 2009 01:51:43 James Livingston wrote:
 On 16/08/2009, at 2:20 AM, Tom Chance wrote:
  Probably sensible to start with something more manageable than path/ 
  highway.
  Maybe the forest/wood debate.

 Sounds good to me. The important thing is that the group has their 
 goals set out explicitly, so they know exactly what they should be 
 doing, and they know when they're finished.

 To me, this means that we need to collect a complete list of all the 
 tree/wood/forest-related things that people may want to add to OSM 
 (even if they already have tagging solutions), with good descriptions, 
 if possible photos and what implications people think they have. The 
 WG could then sit down and figure out which of them are actually the 
 same, and then find a good tagging scheme.


 I think the complete list of what we want to tag is something we're 
 missing in the current arguments. How are we supposed to know if what 
 people are talking about are actually the same thing? Especially since 
 language is an issue, either not having English as a first language, 
 or not having the same English (e.g. British

Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

Maarten Deen schrieb:
 Peter Körner wrote:
 Hello OSM folks

 For the integration of osm into the wikipedia there will be localized 
 maps in all languages that have their own wikipedia. The problem is, 
 that a lot of countries are not translated yet.

 To get an overview over the status and make translating those countries 
 more easy, I created a tool that can be found at

http://cassini.toolserver.org/~mazder/multilingual-country-list/

 I'd like to encourage everyone to spend some time making translated maps 
 better. Comments welcome!
 
 Some translations show up orange. What does that signify?
 
 And a typo: endlish - english
 
 Regards,
 Maarten
 

They tell you that the translation in the given language is identical to 
the value of the name=* tag. If you see the name-Tag as a fallback for a 
missing name:xx-tag (what you should), those pseudo-translations are 
needless. I'm currently in a discussion with Marc Schütz (search through 
the mails of the last days) if deleting them is a good or a bad thing.

Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

Marc Schütz schrieb:
 Still I think a case could be made for country names to be different:
 most of them are so prominent that I would say they exist in most languages,
 even if they are identical to the native names.
 For example, the German names for most European countries are different
 from their native names. However, Portugal happens to have the same name
 (well, spelling) in German and in Portugese. Would you therefore say, that
 Portugal doesn't have a German name?
 It has one, but that's not a translation - rust a repetition. And 
 name:xx-tags are (in my opinion), basically translation-tags.

 Nevertheless I don't like different rules for similar things, so i don't 
 want to have a different rule for countries as for cities. It's a rule 
 in quotation marks, because no one forces you to remove those tags and 
 if you want to add them for a language, i won't go and delete them.
 
 Well, the common rule for both cities and countries would then be: If it has 
 a name in language xxx, then add a name:xxx tag (and don't care if it has the 
 same value as name), else leave it.
 
 Although this basically follows from the on the ground rule, it would 
 probably be very subjective to decide.
 
 Anyway, I don't have a strong opinion on this anymore. As you and Martin have 
 pointed out, it will probably make no difference in practice, as name will 
 be taken as a fallback.
 
 Regards, Marc
 

In my eyes the rule should be: If it has a name in language xxx *that 
differs from it's native name*, then add a name:xxx tag

And that what i did it like for German. I don't feel myself in a 
position to publish this rule on the wiki nor on my tool, as long as 
there are no more voices for / against it.

Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

2009-08-16 Thread Jonas Häggqvist

Peter Körner wrote:
 Marc Schütz schrieb:

 [Should name:xx equal to name tags stay or not?]

 In my eyes the rule should be: If it has a name in language xxx *that
 differs from it's native name*, then add a name:xxx tag

That seemed sensible to me also, but now that I think about it, there's a
significant advantage gained by having the redundant name:xx tags. The
fact that such a tag exists, gives you the confidence to say someone has
thought about this, and this positively is the translation. Rather than
either this is the same in language xx, or no one has bothered to
translate. I imagine this difference is important in some cases. For
example in the Wikipedia case, the presence of a name:xx tag means you can
be reasonably certain this is the correct name.

In some ways, it does feel wrong though, to have all those tags without
any useful information, but consider that it does have the information
that someone thought about it and added the tag.

-- 
Jonas Häggqvist
rasher(at)rasher(dot)dk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

2009-08-16 Thread Arlindo Pereira

I need some advice: I'm currently translating the names to Portuguese,
and for some countries the portuguese name differ from the brazilian
portuguese (which I speak) to the european portuguese. So, should I
tag, official_/name:pt=one of the forms or
official_/name:pt=brazilian portuguese name; european portuguese
name? Or maybe official_/name:pt_PT and official_/name:pt_BR?

Cheers,

2009/8/12 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de:
 Hello OSM folks

 For the integration of osm into the wikipedia there will be localized
 maps in all languages that have their own wikipedia. The problem is,
 that a lot of countries are not translated yet.

 To get an overview over the status and make translating those countries
 more easy, I created a tool that can be found at

   http://cassini.toolserver.org/~mazder/multilingual-country-list/

 I'd like to encourage everyone to spend some time making translated maps
 better. Comments welcome!

 Peter

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-- 
Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr.

Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br
Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com

Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br
Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com
Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com
Tel.: +5521 92504072
Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net
Skype: nighto_sumomo
Chave pública: BD065DEC

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

--- On Mon, 17/8/09, Jonas Häggqvist ras...@rasher.dk wrote:

 In some ways, it does feel wrong though, to have all those
 tags without
 any useful information, but consider that it does have the
 information
 that someone thought about it and added the tag.

I don't see this any differently then if it's tagged wrongly, someone will see 
it at some point and fix it, and this might encourage some that make edits on 
wikipedia to make edits on OSM :)


  

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Postal an idea to extend Walking-Papers to not connected people

2009-08-16 Thread Shaun McDonald


On 15 Aug 2009, at 00:38, Michal Migurski wrote:

 Cool!

 I made the mistake of ignoring my OSM-talk mail for a few days, I'm
 really happy to see that people are thinking of ways to work with
 Walking Papers. I've been building up some steam to work on another
 set of change requests, now's the time to ask if you have a pet
 feature you'd like to see added. =)

 -mike.


I'd like the option to be able to use the nonames style, as there is  
often people looking for unnamed streets and POIs.
An easier way to print off several adjacent maps for a mapping party  
would be useful.

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Postal an idea to extend Walking-Papers to not connected people

2009-08-16 Thread Adam Schreiber

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Shaun
McDonaldsh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote:
 An easier way to print off several adjacent maps for a mapping party
 would be useful.

+1

Or even for personal use.

Cheers,

Adam

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

Jonas Häggqvist schrieb:
 Peter Körner wrote:
 Marc Schütz schrieb:

 [Should name:xx equal to name tags stay or not?]
 In my eyes the rule should be: If it has a name in language xxx *that
 differs from it's native name*, then add a name:xxx tag
 
 That seemed sensible to me also, but now that I think about it, there's a
 significant advantage gained by having the redundant name:xx tags. The
 fact that such a tag exists, gives you the confidence to say someone has
 thought about this, and this positively is the translation. Rather than
 either this is the same in language xx, or no one has bothered to
 translate. I imagine this difference is important in some cases. For
 example in the Wikipedia case, the presence of a name:xx tag means you can
 be reasonably certain this is the correct name.
 
 In some ways, it does feel wrong though, to have all those tags without
 any useful information, but consider that it does have the information
 that someone thought about it and added the tag.

That's the positive point of adding those tags and I'm completely with 
you in this point (i'll call it the validated translation-argument, 
but there is one argument I see against it (i'll name it the 
different-rules-argument):

thinking the idea of adding name:xx-tags for validating the translations 
down to the city, suburb or street-level makes things look much 
different. Do we want different rules for countries, although the add 
if it differs rule could be applied to all of them?

I think to validate translations, an external tool like [1] is much 
better than a tag in the database, because (once the db is updating) 
this tool can and will be expanded to cities, suburbs, POIs and other 
places with a name. Aren't the translation-tags in the wikipedia also 
mainly added by bots - which are external tools, too? Or do you think 
this is a poor comparison?

Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

Arlindo Pereira schrieb:
 I need some advice: I'm currently translating the names to Portuguese,
 and for some countries the portuguese name differ from the brazilian
 portuguese (which I speak) to the european portuguese. So, should I
 tag, official_/name:pt=one of the forms or
 official_/name:pt=brazilian portuguese name; european portuguese
 name? Or maybe official_/name:pt_PT and official_/name:pt_BR?
 
 Cheers,

The list of languages presented is derived from the languages that their 
own wikipedia [1], because that's the most prominent place those 
localized maps will be visible. If you're unsure I'd suggest to use the 
name of the corresponding article in the wikipedia for the language-code 
on the list.

Despite of that feel free to add another tag with the other name. Please 
take a look at [2] and check if there's a language-code for it. Please 
consider also asking at talk-pt [3], although there's not much traffic..

Peter

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:SiteMatrix
[2] http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php
[3] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-pt

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Re: [OSM-talk] Cyclelane on left/right

2009-08-16 Thread Dane Springmeyer


On Aug 15, 2009, at 5:14 PM, Lennard wrote:

 Richard Mann wrote:

 The rendering can apparently be done using Mapnik's
 LinePatternSymbolizer (which does at least now have some  
 documentation
 on the Mapnik site), but knowing that much and achieving the result  
 are
 two different things. I'm hoping it's months rather than years.

 Very good progress has been made recently on offset rendering for the
 LineSymbolizer. I'm indeed hoping we can use this something this year.

 http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/180


Yes, thanks Lenndard.

Anyone interested in line offsets, please post your ideas to that  
ticket. I'm going to be working on the patch one last time next week.


Dane


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[OSM-talk] Aerial Photo of Addis Ababa

2009-08-16 Thread alex

Dear Community,

this is a map-fund raise for Africa ;-) There is a nice Yahoo aerial
picture of Addis Ababa (Ethiopia). 

On http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addis_Ababa/Yahoo#How_to_participate
I created a wiki page to coordinate tracing efforts of the image.

Please give me your comments and - if you have some spare time - help with
tracing the image.

Alex

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

2009-08-16 Thread andrzej zaborowski

2009/8/16 Arlindo Pereira nig...@nighto.net:
 I need some advice: I'm currently translating the names to Portuguese,
 and for some countries the portuguese name differ from the brazilian
 portuguese (which I speak) to the european portuguese. So, should I
 tag, official_/name:pt=one of the forms or
 official_/name:pt=brazilian portuguese name; european portuguese
 name? Or maybe official_/name:pt_PT and official_/name:pt_BR?

I think I remember someone using @ instead of _ in those OSM language
codes for these kind of differences, I don't remember if that is
approved or anything (possibly it was part of this same thread).
But by all means add both forms (either both in name:pt or separate
tags) so that they become searchable.

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List

2009-08-16 Thread andrzej zaborowski

2009/8/16 Jonas Häggqvist ras...@rasher.dk:
 That seemed sensible to me also, but now that I think about it, there's a
 significant advantage gained by having the redundant name:xx tags. The
 fact that such a tag exists, gives you the confidence to say someone has
 thought about this, and this positively is the translation. Rather than
 either this is the same in language xx, or no one has bothered to
 translate. I imagine this difference is important in some cases. For
 example in the Wikipedia case, the presence of a name:xx tag means you can
 be reasonably certain this is the correct name.

The green background (marked OK) on Peter's page is also a good
indicator.  FWIW my personal preference is for leaving the identical
values out.

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer

2009/8/16 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
 Whiteleggnick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:
 In the UK I would tag such a path as foot=designated;bicycle=permissive;
 and pragmatically highway=footway for the moment, using the
 generally-accepted definition of footway as urban surfaced path
 (though would prefer highway=path; surface=paved)

 That is not the definition of footway. highway=footway is For
 designated footpaths, i.e. mainly/exclusively for pedestrians.

that's the recent wiki recommendation, but I guess footway is far
older than this definition from Jan 08. Don't know how many footways
have been in the  db till then and how many were added afterwards not
corresponding to this definition, but might be lots ;-)

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-16 Thread Roy Wallace

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Martin
Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 2009/8/16 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
 Whiteleggnick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:
 In the UK I would tag such a path as foot=designated;bicycle=permissive;
 and pragmatically highway=footway for the moment, using the
 generally-accepted definition of footway as urban surfaced path
 (though would prefer highway=path; surface=paved)

 That is not the definition of footway. highway=footway is For
 designated footpaths, i.e. mainly/exclusively for pedestrians.

 that's the recent wiki recommendation, but I guess footway is far
 older than this definition from Jan 08. Don't know how many footways
 have been in the  db till then and how many were added afterwards not
 corresponding to this definition, but might be lots ;-)

Sure, but perpetuating deprecated definitions via the mailing list
without specifically indicating them as such (deprecated) is IMHO
damaging.

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[OSM-talk] Files format, detail maps as background for mappers.

2009-08-16 Thread Marc Coevoet

Hello,

Detail maps coulb be used as background/help when, mapping.


Here you have a set of files that would be a colored detail map 1/25000
(Belgium south).

http://users.fulladsl.be/~spb13810/research/ign/

Which format is the .cry  ??

Is it possible to convert it to .tif / geotif ??  Using details in the
other files??

I would like to use it as background in my GPS ... (ttmaps or qlandkarte)


And here you have a set of files with even more detail ( in clear )
http://users.fulladsl.be/~spb13810/research/ign/1op100/

I would like to convert them as background for ttmpas, with some of the
tools
http://jrepetto.free.fr/ttmaps/en/convert_maps.html

but I get a problem, probably because of the fact these are black/white
tifs...

Anybody??


thanks !

-- 
Shortwave transmissions in English, Francais, Deutsch, Suid-Afrikaans, 
Urdu, Cantonese, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, ...
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/swlist/
Stations list: http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/txlist/



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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Milo van der Linden

Het is niet aan te raden om kunstmatig te taggen om het renderen van de
kaart te verbeteren.

Ik zou adviseren, zoals ook al eerder in deze thread, om de volgende
vuistregels te nemen:

- taggen wat er is, geen gekunstelde alternatieven taggen omdat het er
dan mooier uitziet.
- een onjuiste rendering op de wiki of hier op de nl lijst posten, het
liefst met een screenshotje zodat onze stylesheet experts er naar kunnen
kijken.
- Indien je info hebt waar momenteel geen, of enkel een tagging voorstel
bestaat, toch taggen, volg je gevoel. Dit kan altijd later worden
verbeterd en als je het niet tagged is het risico dat jou bevinding
verloren gaat veel groter.

Houd in je achterhoofd het volgende:

de centrale openstreetmap organisatie focust zich vooral op de
OpenStreetMap database. De acties van de foundation focussen niet op de
render. De kaart op www.openstreetmap.org is er vooral als showcase
omdat het anders voor de OSMF moeilijk is te laten zien wat ze nou
allemaal kunnen.

Voor Nederland;

Richt je tot de community wanneer je specifieke render verbeteringen of
wensen hebt. Mensen als Ldp kunnen er prima zorg voor dragen dat
verbeteringen die uit NL ontstaan m.b.t. het renderen worden
doorgefluisterd aan de OSMF voor hun centrale kaart.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Milo van der Linden


Frank Fesevur schreef:
 Op 16 augustus 2009 13:31 schreef Lambert Carsten (lhc@solcon.nl)
 het volgende:
   
 Even hier in Amsterdam naar het Muntplein kijkende zie ik dat de 
 natural=water
 gebied ten onrechte doorloopt onder het plein. Je kunt er wel onderdoor varen
 en die weg is het getagged met  waterway=canal; boat=yes; tunnel=yes;
 layer=-1 wat mij niet verkeerd lijkt.
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.36703lon=4.89345zoom=17layers=B000FTF
 

 Dat soort situaties heb je in een stad heel veel. Binnen een straal
 van 1km van mijn huis weet ik zo drie punten waar dit ook speelt. En
 daar is het ook met een brug opgelost. En dan het losliggende fietspad
 ook. En dat levert een raar beeld op de tiles op, net zoals jouw
 voorbeeld. Maar het water loopt daar gewoon door en de brug is bijna
 niet herkenbaar meer.

 Het valt allemaal niet mee voor een beginner zeg.

 Gegroet,
 Frank

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Frank Fesevur

Op 16 augustus 2009 15:13 schreef Milo van der Linden het volgende:
 Ik zou adviseren, zoals ook al eerder in deze thread, om de volgende
 vuistregels te nemen:

 - taggen wat er is, geen gekunstelde alternatieven taggen omdat het er
 dan mooier uitziet.

Maar kom ik weer terug bij mijn eerste vraag: Hoe moet ik het dan
taggen. Zoals het nu is, is het in ieder geval niet goed. Het zijn
geen bruggen, maar duikers. Dan het water maar opsplitsen?

 - een onjuiste rendering op de wiki of hier op de nl lijst posten, het
 liefst met een screenshotje zodat onze stylesheet experts er naar kunnen
 kijken.

Zie het voorbeeld van het Muntplein van Lambert. Of bijvoorbeeld deze
kruisingen hier in Den Haag.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.06198lon=4.27402zoom=17

Eenzelfde situatie. Vanaf de straatkant gezien bijna niet meer als
brug herkenbaar, maar het water loopt er echt goed onderdoor. Zeker
niet 4 aparte bruggen voor de rijbanen en fietspaden. Zo zijn er in
Den Haag wel tientallen voorbeelden te vinden.

 - Indien je info hebt waar momenteel geen, of enkel een tagging voorstel
 bestaat, toch taggen, volg je gevoel. Dit kan altijd later worden
 verbeterd en als je het niet tagged is het risico dat jou bevinding
 verloren gaat veel groter.

Mijn gevoel is als beginner nog te klein om dat te durven volgen.

Gegroet,
Frank

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Milo van der Linden

Goed lezen Lennard ;-)


De enige reden dat er op www.openstreetmap.org een kaart tevoorschijn
komt is omdat de OSMF wil showcasen wat ze zoal in de db hebben. Ik
heb er een aantal keer met leden van de OSMF over gepraat en volgens mij
zijn die het er over eens dat het bijhouden van de kaart op
www.openstreetmap.org NIET tot de doelstelling van de foundation behoord.

De kaart is echter een van de weinige manieren voor de OSMF om aan
geïnteresseerde sponsors te laten zien wat ze doen. Het aantal commits,
extracts, API calls, db volume etc. wordt over het algemeen helaas door
mensen met de centjes nogal slecht begrepen of geïnterpreteerd :D



Lennard schreef:
 Milo van der Linden wrote:

   
 omdat het anders voor de OSMF moeilijk is te laten zien wat ze nou
 allemaal kunnen.
 

 OSMF != OSM
   
Niet relevant, schrappen deze commentaar regel :D
   
 verbeteringen die uit NL ontstaan m.b.t. het renderen worden
 doorgefluisterd aan de OSMF voor hun centrale kaart.
 

 OSMF != centrale kaart.
   
Wie is dan de ongelimiteerd toegewezen beheerder van de centrale kaart
en op welke wijze heeft deze persoon/personen het unieke recht gekregen
de centrale kaart te beheren? Door een democratische stemming? Of vanuit
de OSMF?

 Voor de rest eens met wat je zegt.

   


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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Milo van der Linden

Frank Fesevur schreef:
 Op 16 augustus 2009 15:13 schreef Milo van der Linden het volgende:
   
 Ik zou adviseren, zoals ook al eerder in deze thread, om de volgende
 vuistregels te nemen:

 - taggen wat er is, geen gekunstelde alternatieven taggen omdat het er
 dan mooier uitziet.
 

 Maar kom ik weer terug bij mijn eerste vraag: Hoe moet ik het dan
 taggen. Zoals het nu is, is het in ieder geval niet goed. Het zijn
 geen bruggen, maar duikers. Dan het water maar opsplitsen?
   
Het water kun je inderdaad splitsen, waarbij het lijnstukje dat water én
duiker is dus een extra tag krijgt.
Ik zou voorlopig gaan voor tunnel=yes, omdat een culvert zoals in het
wikipedia voorbeeld duidelijk wordt géén duiker is.

Mijn gevoel voor duikers gaat meer richting woorden als trench, conduit,
duct, pipe, cut-and-cover (allemaal termen uit de Civil Engineering)

Maar even rondspitten op  wikipedia leert dat de variaties hier zo enorm
zijn dat het onmogelijk lijkt om een centrale term te kiezen. Daarnaast
is het mij niet gelukt om de engelse term voor duiker te vinden.
Wellicht dat we een plaatje van een duiker op de wiki moeten posten
zodat een native engelstalige er zijn licht op kan laten schijnen?

   
 - een onjuiste rendering op de wiki of hier op de nl lijst posten, het
 liefst met een screenshotje zodat onze stylesheet experts er naar kunnen
 kijken.
 

 Zie het voorbeeld van het Muntplein van Lambert. Of bijvoorbeeld deze
 kruisingen hier in Den Haag.
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.06198lon=4.27402zoom=17

 Eenzelfde situatie. Vanaf de straatkant gezien bijna niet meer als
 brug herkenbaar, maar het water loopt er echt goed onderdoor. Zeker
 niet 4 aparte bruggen voor de rijbanen en fietspaden. Zo zijn er in
 Den Haag wel tientallen voorbeelden te vinden.

   
 - Indien je info hebt waar momenteel geen, of enkel een tagging voorstel
 bestaat, toch taggen, volg je gevoel. Dit kan altijd later worden
 verbeterd en als je het niet tagged is het risico dat jou bevinding
 verloren gaat veel groter.
 

 Mijn gevoel is als beginner nog te klein om dat te durven volgen.
   
Lijkt me geen probleem hoor, al zet je er de tag: gevoel=frank. Dan
wordt deze vanzelf een keer gevonden bij een kwaliteits-controle en kan
op basis van jou userid contact met je worden gezocht om te kijken
waarom je die tag wilt gebruiken. Wie weet is er tegen die tijd wel
overeenstemming over duikers, culverts, tunnels, pipes etc.
 Gegroet,
 Frank

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Frank Steggink

Dag Frank,

Frank Fesevur wrote:
 Maar kom ik weer terug bij mijn eerste vraag: Hoe moet ik het dan
 taggen. Zoals het nu is, is het in ieder geval niet goed. Het zijn
 geen bruggen, maar duikers. Dan het water maar opsplitsen?
   
Als er geen brug is en je geen open water ziet, ja dan opsplitsen en een 
duiker aanleggen. Op andere plekken in de buurt lijkt dat wel gebeurd 
te zijn. Zie bijv. Soestdijksekade en Loosduinsekade (alhoewel ik vanaf 
mijn PC niet kan zien wat de situatie ter plekke is). Misschien kun je 
wat foto's maken en online zetten, zodat we kunnen zien wat de situatie 
is? Vooral als iets bijna niet als brug herkenbaar is kan een plaatje 
veel verduidelijken. De grens zou kunnen zijn of het water ter plekke 
vernauwd en duidelijk overkluisd is, of dat er alleen een brugdek tussen 
de weg en het water is.

Hoe je duikers precies moet taggen, dat is een tweede. In ieder geval 
zou je het moeten taggen, en mocht er concensus komen over duikers, dan 
kun je alle gevallen opzoeken die je zelf anders hebt getagd en 
corrigeren. Geef, zoals Milo zegt, het in ieder geval aan, zodat de 
informatie niet verloren gaat.

Kun je evt. achterhalen wie verantwoordelijk is voor de originele 
tagging en vragen hoe hij(/zij) tot deze oplosisng is gekomen? Of komt 
dit door de AND import?

Groeten,

Frank

p.s. Ik dacht dat je vraag in eerste instantie te maken had met de 
onderwatersport :) Het zou wel interessant zijn om de oester- en 
mosselbanken in de Oosterschelde, en koraalriffen (!) te gaan mappen!


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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Lennard

Milo van der Linden wrote:

 Maar even rondspitten op  wikipedia leert dat de variaties hier zo enorm
 zijn dat het onmogelijk lijkt om een centrale term te kiezen. Daarnaast
 is het mij niet gelukt om de engelse term voor duiker te vinden.

Al mijn (gelimiteerde) ervaring zegt me dat culvert = duiker:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culvert
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duiker_%28kunstwerk%29

Met zoals op de nl wikipedia als voornaamste eigenschap genoemd het feit 
dat de originele bodem van de watergang wordt onderbroken.

-- 
Lennard

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

Een beetje dubbel intussen want anderen waren mij voor :) maar toch:

On Sunday 16 August 2009 16:08:05 Frank Fesevur wrote:
 Op 16 augustus 2009 15:13 schreef Milo van der Linden het volgende:
  Ik zou adviseren, zoals ook al eerder in deze thread, om de volgende
  vuistregels te nemen:
 
  - taggen wat er is, geen gekunstelde alternatieven taggen omdat het er
  dan mooier uitziet.

 Maar kom ik weer terug bij mijn eerste vraag: Hoe moet ik het dan
 taggen. Zoals het nu is, is het in ieder geval niet goed. Het zijn
 geen bruggen, maar duikers. Dan het water maar opsplitsen?
Als je er niet onderdoor kunt varen zou ik het daar niet als brug taggen. 
Voorzover ik op Google Earth kan zien zitten er tussen de kruispunten stukjes 
water waar je verder alleen in kan vallen. Dat zou ik met een way tekenen en 
taggen met waterway=stream of waterway=drain. Die stukjes kunnen dan 
verbonden worden met die waterway=culvert en layer=-1 voor onder het 
kruispunt. Een alternatief voor stream of drain zou canal kunnen zijn maar 
dan moet je wel boat=no toevoegen.

Als je er onderdoor kan varen zie hieronder.

In Amsterdam worden de grachten enz. getagged met natural=water (wat toch een 
beetje 'tekenen' is voor de renderaar n.m.m.) maar ook met een waterway=canal 
in het midden van de gracht zodat ook een vaarkaart mogelijk is.  Een 
heleboel van die natural=water stamt nog uit het AND bestand.

  - een onjuiste rendering op de wiki of hier op de nl lijst posten, het
  liefst met een screenshotje zodat onze stylesheet experts er naar kunnen
  kijken.

 Zie het voorbeeld van het Muntplein van Lambert. Of bijvoorbeeld deze
 kruisingen hier in Den Haag.
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.06198lon=4.27402zoom=17

 Eenzelfde situatie. Vanaf de straatkant gezien bijna niet meer als
 brug herkenbaar, maar het water loopt er echt goed onderdoor. Zeker
 niet 4 aparte bruggen voor de rijbanen en fietspaden. Zo zijn er in
 Den Haag wel tientallen voorbeelden te vinden.
Bruggen over water waar er meer ways over gaan (gescheiden banen, trams, 
fietspaden) worden momenteel niet goed gerenderd. Dat moeten de renderaars 
oplossen. Inderdaad zoals Milo aangaf niet met gekunstelde oplossingen 
aankomen . Er is een voorstel om dergelijke bruggen in een relatie op te 
nemen om daarmee duidelijk te maken dat het gaat om een brug met 
meerdere 'ways'.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels#Tags

Maar daar zit op dit moment weinig schot in en de ontwikkelaars van de render 
regels houden waarschijnlijk alleen rekening met geaccepteerde voorstellen 
(niet onbegrijpelijk).

Zolang dat voorstel niet is aangenomen (of een ander voor in de plaats) moeten 
wij ons behelpen met meerder bruggen naast elkaar. In elk geval is daarmee de 
functionaliteit in de database opgenomen. Een renderaar zou lijkt mij nu al 
die bruggen kunnen samenvoegen en als een tekenen, maar ik heb makkelijk 
praten. :)

  - Indien je info hebt waar momenteel geen, of enkel een tagging voorstel
  bestaat, toch taggen, volg je gevoel. Dit kan altijd later worden
  verbeterd en als je het niet tagged is het risico dat jou bevinding
  verloren gaat veel groter.

 Mijn gevoel is als beginner nog te klein om dat te durven volgen.
Komt wel.

mvg

Lambert Carsten

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Frank Steggink

Milo van der Linden wrote:
 Het water kun je inderdaad splitsen, waarbij het lijnstukje dat water én
 duiker is dus een extra tag krijgt.
 Ik zou voorlopig gaan voor tunnel=yes, omdat een culvert zoals in het
 wikipedia voorbeeld duidelijk wordt géén duiker is.

 Mijn gevoel voor duikers gaat meer richting woorden als trench, conduit,
 duct, pipe, cut-and-cover (allemaal termen uit de Civil Engineering)

 Maar even rondspitten op  wikipedia leert dat de variaties hier zo enorm
 zijn dat het onmogelijk lijkt om een centrale term te kiezen. Daarnaast
 is het mij niet gelukt om de engelse term voor duiker te vinden.
 Wellicht dat we een plaatje van een duiker op de wiki moeten posten
 zodat een native engelstalige er zijn licht op kan laten schijnen
Wat mij betreft zou er i.h.a. wel meer aandacht aan kunstwerken besteed 
kunnen worden. Ze zijn net zo essentieel voor onze maatschappij als 
gebouwen, parken, e.d. Op dit moment is het een allegaartje. Je hebt 
features zoals waterway=weir, waterway=dam, etc., maar bruggen worden 
als bridge=yes van af. Misschien is het een idee om een structure tag 
te introduceren? Ik weet trouwens ook niet goed wat de correcte naam is. 
Rondgraven op Wikipedia gaf alleen structure wat het dichtst bijzit.

V.w.b. duiker, de Nederlandstalige duiker-pagina is gelinkt aan de 
culvert-pagina, met daarbij een plaatje van wat wij in het algemeen 
onder duiker verstaan. Misschien hebben de auteurs van de Engelstalige 
pagina gewoon nog geen geschikt plaatje gevonden, of vonden ze het niet 
nodig, of het plaatje van de NL versie (wat een Amerikaanse duiker is) 
niet interessant genoeg. Een oordeel o.b.v. alleen een plaatje is kort 
door de bocht.

De tekst van de culvert-pagina is als volgt: Culverts come in many 
shapes and sizes, including round, elliptical, flat-bottomed, 
pear-shaped, and box. They vary from the small drainage culverts found 
on highways and driveways to large diameter structures on significant 
waterways or supporting large water control works. The latter can 
comprise large engineering projects. Volgens deze tekst zouden onze 
duikers ook in het engels met de term culvert aangeduid worden. Zie 
vooral ook many shapes and sizes, dus er is geen uniformiteit.

Groeten,

Frank


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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Polderrunner

Frank Steggink wrote:
Als er geen brug is en je geen open water ziet, ja dan opsplitsen en
een duiker aanleggen. Op andere plekken in de buurt lijkt dat wel
gebeurd te zijn. Zie bijv. Soestdijksekade en Loosduinsekade (alhoewel
ik vanaf mijn PC niet kan zien wat de situatie ter plekke is). Misschien
kun je wat foto's maken en online zetten, zodat we kunnen zien wat de
situatie is? Vooral als iets bijna niet als brug herkenbaar is kan een
plaatje veel verduidelijken. De grens zou kunnen zijn of het water ter
plekke vernauwd en duidelijk overkluisd is, of dat er alleen een brugdek
tussen de weg en het water is.

Kun je evt. achterhalen wie verantwoordelijk is voor de originele
tagging en vragen hoe hij(/zij) tot deze oplosisng is gekomen? Of
komt dit door de AND import?

Het lijkt dat ik voor de edits bij de brug Soestdijksekade/Volendamlaan
verantwoordelijk ben (de fietspaden tenminste, er zitten daar ook nog
wat oorsprongelijke AND data bij). Ik heb het (als voorbijlopend
hardloper) als een brug gezien en zodanig getagd.

Met wat hulp van de schruine fotos van Microsoft! Volgens mij kun je
hier onder varen als je de kop een beetje laag houdt.
http://maps.msn.nl/?cp=52.06183328129194~4.273666919442604scene=11811266style=olvl=2dir=0tilt=-90alt=-1000

De situatie bij Soestdijksekade / Loosduinsekade: Het gaat hier
inderdaad om bruggen en niet duikers!
http://maps.msn.nl/?cp=52.06669920722456~4.270315314499754scene=11811235style=olvl=2dir=0tilt=-90alt=-1000

mvg
Ole/Polderrunner

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Hoe duikers mappen

2009-08-16 Thread Cartinus

On Sunday 16 August 2009 13:31:06 Lambert Carsten wrote:
 Overigens lijkt mij waterway=culvert het meest
 logische. Voordeel daarvan is dat het niet gerenderd wordt maar wel in de
 OSM database staat  en duidelijk is voor een volgende mapper wat ermee
 bedoeld wordt.

Ik gebruik al een tijdje waterway=culvert voor duikers.

De laatste keer dat ik naar de stylesheet keek werd het overigens wel 
gerenderd op de Mapnik layer. Er zit een elsefilter in de waterway-style. 
Alle waarden voor waterway die niet expliciet genoemd worden in de stijl 
worden gerenderd als een smalle lichtblauwe lijn.  

-- 
m.v.g.,
Cartinus

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Re: [talk-au] Nambour mapping party that was held today

I just found this, someone proposed a railway=minature, but never followed up 
with having it voted on.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Miniature_railway


  

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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

 Also they talk about only adding ref's to relations that
 have the entire highway.

The other reason to use relations instead of tagging individual sections of 
ways is consistency, a lot of highways are badly or inconsistently tagged, if 
all the ways are part of the same highway they will be very easy to keep 
consistent.


  

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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

2009-08-16 Thread Liz

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote:
  Also they talk about only adding ref's to relations that
  have the entire highway.

 The other reason to use relations instead of tagging individual sections of
 ways is consistency, a lot of highways are badly or inconsistently tagged,
 if all the ways are part of the same highway they will be very easy to keep
 consistent.
i think that it sounds like an improvement overall



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[talk-au] New bridge + 6km of road

Must have been a really really slow news day, but they just had the opening of 
a new bridge + 6km of road across the ward river on TV.

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/regional_news/4264/westqld/new-bridge-will-improve-town-s-wet-season-access.html

Anyone likely to be going this way?


  

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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

2009-08-16 Thread Elizabeth Dodd

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote:
 It might be good to put the name and the ref in different relations, for
 example, A1 continues past Carins, but it changes name from the Bruce
 Highway to the Captain Cook Highway.
that I did see in May


 In this example there would be 3 relations, 1 for A1, 1 for the Bruce
 Highway and 1 for the Captain Cook Highway, and none of the ways in the
 relations have a name=* or ref=* tag except if there is a local street
 name, eg the Bruce Highway is also Mulgave Road in Cairns
would you break the relations at State borders or not?


-- 
Tonight's the night: Sleep in a eucalyptus tree.


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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

--- On Sun, 16/8/09, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote:

 would you break the relations at State borders or not?

I have been for the ref=* relation because I'm adding addr:country=Australia, 
addr:state=QLD so that different state sheilds can be displayed different.

I didn't really think what to do with highway names. Can anyone think of a good 
reason to split, or reason we shouldn't?


  

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Re: [talk-au] New bridge + 6km of road

2009-08-16 Thread Liz

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote:
 Must have been a really really slow news day, but they just had the opening
 of a new bridge + 6km of road across the ward river on TV.

 http://www.optuszoo.com.au/regional_news/4264/westqld/new-bridge-will-impro
ve-town-s-wet-season-access.html

 Anyone likely to be going this way?



optuszoo doesn't want me 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/14/2655826.htm



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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

This is the current relation tags I've come up with based on the talk-us 
threads.

Ref Relation tags:

addr:country=Australia
addr:state=QLD
network=A
ref=1
route=road
type=route

Name Relation tags:
name=Bruce Highway
route=road
type=route


  

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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

2009-08-16 Thread Elizabeth Dodd

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote:
  would you break the relations at State borders or not?

 I have been for the ref=* relation because I'm adding
 addr:country=Australia, addr:state=QLD so that different state shields can
 be displayed differently.
OK, a reason to split - I couldn't think of any reason either way


 I didn't really think what to do with highway names. Can anyone think of a
 good reason to split, or reason we shouldn't?



-- 
BOFH excuse #140:

LBNC (luser brain not connected)


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[talk-au] Amenities tags

2009-08-16 Thread Liz

I've started putting in complete sets of POIs in some small areas.
So I've just marked up the amenities with whatever seemed appropriate at the 
time if there was no tag
i used workshop for an engineering workshop
masseur for the massage clinic (not the other sort)
dental_technician for the denture bloke
and undertaker for the undertakers

I'd like to draw your attention to this guys suggested organisation of amenity
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Amenity_Reoganization


some of the comments that appear are quite fun - like the person who didn't 
think a mortuary was an amenity
(mortuary didn't survive as it has two distinct uses in various englishes)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Funeral_home

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Re: [talk-au] Amenities tags

--- On Sun, 16/8/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:

 I'd like to draw your attention to this guys suggested
 organisation of amenity
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Amenity_Reoganization

Good idea, and like others it won't get past the current stalemate with the way 
things are decided upon.


  

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Re: [talk-au] Amenities tags

2009-08-16 Thread Elizabeth Dodd

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote:
 --- On Sun, 16/8/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
  I'd like to draw your attention to this guys suggested
  organisation of amenity
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Amenity_Reoganization

 Good idea, and like others it won't get past the current stalemate with the
 way things are decided upon.
i mentioned earlier to Roy that when a committee is going round in circles you 
wait until the time is right and then come up with another proposal which 
actually offers the way out of the problem, supports most others partially but 
no one fully and then railroad it through.
I suspect that the working party concept may get off the ground with all the 
available hot air from that list

-- 
Q:  What does friendship among Soviet nationalities mean?
A:  It means that the Armenians take the Russians by the hand; the
Russians take the Ukrainians by the hand; the Ukranians take
the Uzbeks by the hand; and they all go and beat up the Jews.


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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

--- On Sun, 16/8/09, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote:

 OK, a reason to split - I couldn't think of any reason
 either way

The Savannah Way goes from QLD to WA, it's one route and I can't think of a 
good reason to split it.

There is a system limitation of 1000 ways per relation, the Americans got round 
this by making multiple relations of the same route and then added all the 
relations to a super relation.

That's a system limitation though, not a reason to split on state borders.


  

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Re: [talk-au] Search function on Garmin GPS units

2009-08-16 Thread cam_daw


Yes!  Indeed there is an issue with this.  I hadn't searched for
cities before on my Garmin unit :P
Ok, I havn't done that much of a comparison of OSM town name POI
tags, and what the Garmin unit's find cities tool brings up.  But
there's a small chance it could be the is_in tag (not
is_in:country tags).
It could also be a small bug with mkgmap
http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/index.html which would be the tool
that's being used to convert the OSM data into Garmin's IMG
format.
- In which case it might be good idea to file a bug with a little
research to make it easier for the auther of mkgmap to re-create
the bug.
It's not a feature I'd use that much, but still, it would be
handy if you're actually trying to find something - rather than
in my case, to simply tell me if a road exists and if so does it
have a name - so I can survey it and clean it up :P
- Rhubarb
On Sun, 2009-08-16 at 15:06 +1000, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote:
I've had the same issue. When searching for cities or suburbs it
will come up with results such as Newcastle, VIC Newtown, VIC
etc.

 I just switched on my Legend HCx and did a search for nearest
cities. Currently I'm in Lismore and despite most of the results
being in NSW it still came up with:

 Bora Ridge, VIC 25.03km
 Rileys Hill, VIC 26.38km
 Swan Bay, VIC 28.71km
 *6 other results within 50km which are supposedly in Victoria*

 There's probably a consistent pattern in there somewhere, about
70% of the results are shown correctly to be in NSW.
-- 
  
  cam_...@fastmail.fm

-- 
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[talk-au] Townsville has hi-res sat imagery

I just marked out the area around Townsville covered by hi-res sat imagery.


  

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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 26, Issue 49 - Routing problem

2009-08-16 Thread Denise or Gavin

 Okay,

So
I followed the instructions about contructing the GMAPSUPP.IMG file - no
problem.

On the gps I press the Find key and select Adresses, start entering in the
street name, which the unit finds and I select then scroll to the Enter City
box Enter and this brings up all the Cities - but just about all of them are
listed as being in VIC.
Have opened the same file in Mapedit and confirmed that that almost all of
the cities are listed as being in VIC.

Thanks
Gavin


 On Sun, 2009-08-16 at 09:20 +0700, Denise or Gavin wrote:
 I have downloaded the NSW routable map from
 http://www.osmaustralia.org/garminroute.php only to find most
 addresses in my GPS 6ocsx assigned the state of Vic - when they
 should be NSW.
 
  Any reason for this?
 
 

 I've just downloaded the routable dataset for NSW on my garmin
 unit (etrex vista HCx) and it works fine for me.
 Did you download
 http://www.osmaustralia.org/garminroute/AU/NSW_route.img.zip ?

 After you've downloaded this file, you can unzip it, then rename
 the file to: GMAPSUPP.IMG and place the file within the GARMIN
 folder on your garmin gps unit.  (You can combine multiple IMG
 files into one big IMG file using some other tools if need be).
 Once that's done, you should have a lot of the OSM details and
 roads on your garmin unit.

 What do you mean by most addresses in my GPS 6ocsx assigned the
 state of Vic - when they should be NSW ?
 Could you be more specific - what do you mean by addresses? -
 Road names? and how are they assigned the state?

 - Rhubarb
 --


 Message: 4
 Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:06:55 +1000
 From: b.schulz...@scu.edu.au
 Subject: Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 26, Issue 48
 To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
 Message-ID: f6e6a8741a8b.4a882...@scu.edu.au
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

 I've had the same issue. When searching for cities or suburbs it will come
 up with results such as Newcastle, VIC Newtown, VIC etc.

 I just switched on my Legend HCx and did a search for nearest cities.
 Currently I'm in Lismore and despite most of the results being in NSW it
 still came up with:

 Bora Ridge, VIC 25.03km
 Rileys Hill, VIC 26.38km
 Swan Bay, VIC 28.71km
 *6 other results within 50km which are supposedly in Victoria*

 There's probably a consistent pattern in there somewhere, about 70% of the
 results are shown correctly to be in NSW.


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[talk-au] Hi, a noob starts some mapping.

2009-08-16 Thread Lindley Bowers

Hello all,

drlizau invited me to this mailing list, so I thought I'd say hi. I'm
mapping under the name Brentyn.

Since discovering both Trails and the gps on my iPhone, I thought I'd do a
little mapping around the Toowoomba area near where I live. I've never had
anything to do with mapping, gps or gis before so I'm a bit of a noob with
it all. (So feel free to send any advice/corrections my way if I'm doing it
all wrong).

Anyway I've been having fun discovering the rich diversity of houses and
scenic routes in our area. But the best part is just cruising around in the
car with my 11-yo son who's getting quite good at writing down street names
now. :)

So far I mapped Meringandan and Meringandan West, 1/3 of Highfields and a
few blocks in West Toowoomba. I don't always get to grab the street names so
sometimes I might just be adding in streets without their names.

Just one question for now ... (I couldn't find the answer anywhere after
looking around for an hour or so). I'm guessing that roads or highways with
a median strip need to be set up as two oneway ways so that routing
understands where you can turn around. What I don't know is that when a
turning opportunity comes up (either a break in the median strip or a road
intersection) how you are meant to tag the little bit of road between the
two ways? With the name of the main road, or the name of the intersecting
side street? Any other tags as well? eg In Toowoomba I split Taylor Street
between Greenwattle and Tor Streets so that I could do the block on the
south side correctly. However at the intersection of Taylor and McGregor you
can cross over Taylor. How is the bit of road to be tagged? (I also added
crossovers to Warrego Highway where Postmans Ridge Road joins up). I'm also
guessing that if the median break only allows turning into a road, no U-turn
or only turning from one direction that some kind of relation needs to be
constructed but relations are beyond me for now.

One motivation for helping out with mapping is the number of times I've
ended up in the middle of some poor farmer's paddock by trying to follow the
directions from other various online maps. But the clincher for me was when
I saw on more than one popular online map was falsely drawn a railway line
up a very steep hill beside Hogg Street between Mort and Tor Streets in
Toowoomba. Is it ironic that that is just beside the Baillie Henderson
Hospital (a mental institution)?

Trails on the iPhone uses the maps from cloudmade ... but it seems to takes
weeks for osm data to appear on their map. Is there a better iPhone app I
should be using?

Anyway, I'm having fun and hope that I contribute more than I break as a
noob.

Cheers,
Brentyn.
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Re: [talk-au] List of potential datasources

--- On Mon, 17/8/09, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote:

 I guess the problems with this would be:
 * Duplication with public toilets that are already marked

Only import toilets where there is no node=amenity within 250-500m, throw them 
into an exceptions file for manual inspection/verification/insertion.
 
 * The toilet map lists toilets that are semi-public. e.g.
 Inside shops. Normally I wouldn't bother to mark these
 on OSM.

I'd mark it as part of the shop, but not in and of itself.

 Thinking about it, if the search was improved for OSM a bit
 (i.e. faster) maybe OSM could tender to host toilet map. I
 guess our base street map coverage is a bit thin in rural
 areas for that, but just a thought.

A POI search in general would be good.


  

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Re: [talk-au] Hi, a noob starts some mapping.

--- On Mon, 17/8/09, Lindley Bowers lindleybow...@gmail.com wrote:

 drlizau invited me to this mailing list, so I thought
 I'd say hi. I'm mapping under the name
 Brentyn.

Welcome to the list :)

 Since discovering both Trails and the gps on my
 iPhone, I thought I'd do a little mapping around the
 Toowoomba area near where I live. I've never had
 anything to do with mapping, gps or gis before so I'm a
 bit of a noob with it all. (So feel free to send any
 advice/corrections my way if I'm doing it all
 wrong).

This isn't a criticism just something I think you should be aware of, the GPS 
chip in iPhone's doesn't seem to be the best, it jumps all over the place if 
you don't have a clear view of the sky.

 Anyway I've been having fun discovering the rich
 diversity of houses and scenic routes in our area. But the
 best part is just cruising around in the car with my 11-yo
 son who's getting quite good at writing down street
 names now. :)

Get 'em hooked while they're young :D

 So far I mapped Meringandan and Meringandan West, 1/3
 of Highfields and a few blocks in West Toowoomba. I
 don't always get to grab the street names so sometimes I
 might just be adding in streets without their names.

This page on the wiki describes some tips when starting with a blank canvas so 
to speak:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Starting_with_a_Blank_Map

I've mapped out several rural towns from almost nothing, but because it was 
just me and because I wasn't looking to have an accident in traffic I haven't 
worked out a good way to quickly grab street names.

That said as long as you have a GPS trace someone without a GPS would still be 
able to enter the street names. Some state governments provide websites with 
street name lookups, although I don't think QLD is one of them.

 I'm guessing that roads or highways with a median strip
 need to be set up as two oneway ways so that routing
 understands where you can turn around. What I don't know

Yes

 is that when a turning opportunity comes up (either a break
 in the median strip or a road intersection) how you are
 meant to tag the little bit of road between the two ways?
 With the name of the main road, or the name of the
 intersecting side street? Any other tags as well? eg In

I usually tag them with the same information as the most important cross 
street, since that section of road is for the cross street(s).

 Toowoomba I split Taylor Street between Greenwattle and Tor
 Streets so that I could do the block on the south side
 correctly. However at the intersection of Taylor and
 McGregor you can cross over Taylor. How is the bit of road
 to be tagged? (I also added crossovers to Warrego Highway
 where Postmans Ridge Road joins up). I'm also guessing

You just join both sides of the cross street togeather and make sure you don't 
mark it as oneway=yes :)

 that if the median break only allows turning into a road, no
 U-turn or only turning from one direction that some kind of
 relation needs to be constructed but relations are beyond me
 for now. 

This would be a restriction relation, not just a tag, I've never tagged one of 
these so I don't know the specifics but this is the wiki page about it:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction

 One motivation for helping out with mapping is the
 number of times I've ended up in the middle of some poor
 farmer's paddock by trying to follow the directions from
 other various online maps. But the clincher for me was when
 I saw on more than one popular online map was falsely drawn
 a railway line up a very steep hill beside Hogg Street
 between Mort and Tor Streets in Toowoomba. Is it ironic that
 that is just beside the Baillie Henderson Hospital (a mental
 institution)?

You've been googled too! :)

I've been told to enter private property, go up trails in national parks, and 
any number of other bad routes. Happened to me so many times.

 Trails on the iPhone uses the maps from cloudmade ...
 but it seems to takes weeks for osm data to appear on their
 map. Is there a better iPhone app I should be using?

I don't know if the iPhone app caches, but OSM does, you can force it to 
refresh tiles however, either on a per image basis or by going to this site:

http://informationfreeway.org

It shows the zoom level on the bottom towards the left hand side, when that 
says z12 you can move your mouse over the map and press the 'r' key on your 
keyboard to get it to re-render tiles from zoom level 12 to 18.

 Anyway, I'm having fun and hope that I contribute
 more than I break as a noob.

There is an undo feature! Except I can never remember where to find it.


  

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[talk-au] More hi-res sat imagery

I just noticed Rockhampton also has hi-res imagery available.


  

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Re: [talk-au] Hi, a noob starts some mapping.

  that if the median break only allows turning into a road, no
  U-turn or only turning from one direction that some kind of
  relation needs to be constructed but relations are beyond me
  for now. 
 
 This would be a restriction relation, not just a tag, I've never tagged one 
 of these so I don't know the specifics but this is the wiki page about it:
 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction
 
Not always necessary.

Looking here:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-16.917127lon=145.771595zoom=18layers=B000FTF

You will find an intersection with no restriction relations yet it routes and 
renders correctly.

You can not go straight across on Minnie Street but you can turn left from 
either Minnie St to Lake St or viceversa and turn right from Lake St into 
either side of Minnie St.

The section of Minnie St between the two sides of Lake St is not marked as 
oneway so becomes a two way section, which it is on the ground, as is the rest 
of the intersection.

Generally if you map it as it is on the ground, by using oneway=yes where 
required, it will work out like this.

Go to edit to see how the ways are tagged.

If there was no u-turn permitted then you would have to use a relation to 
indicate that.


Cheers and Welcome
Ross
-- 
Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com

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Re: [talk-au] More hi-res sat imagery

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:06:28 + (GMT)
John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I just noticed Rockhampton also has hi-res imagery available.
 
 
   
 
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Don't forget to georeference the imagery if you are going to trace items. 


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[talk-au] maps.bigtincan.com

Is this still working?

I get connection refused when attempting to contact ... errors.

When I attempt to connect to maps.bigtincan.com or maps.bigtincan.com/tagwatch/



-- 
Cheers
Ross

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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

2009-08-16 Thread BlueMM

John Smith-129 wrote:

This is the current relation tags I've come up with based on the talk-us
threads.

Ref Relation tags:

addr:country=Australia
addr:state=QLD
network=A
ref=1
route=road
type=route

Name Relation tags:
name=Bruce Highway
route=road
type=route

Nice work John, looks great.

A few questions:
1. I presume the addr:country=Australia is manditory for this to work, but
:state optional? I could imagine only needing state for state specific
sheilds (ie. nationally consistent ones wouldn't need state).
2. If a Route has the same ref/name for it's length, there doesn't seem to
be any problem with having just one relation, combining the tags. I think
this would make simple cases simple to map (always a good thing).
3. I think you suggested if there is no underlying street name for a section
of highway, copy/move the name from the relation to the way, is that right?
I'd prefer the other way, where the name is stored in the relation so a lot
of the ways would have no name (the validators/no-names maps would need to
be updated to grab data from relations if they don't already do. I think
this would be a nice clean solution, and matches the suggestion ages ago to
put a street name in a relation when it is broken up by many residential
roundabouts...

BlueMM (checking how posting from Nabble.com works compared to Gmane.org,
which has broken posting at the moment)
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/I%27ve-been-trying-to-fix-the-highway-shields-and-came-across-this-tp24970890p25000891.html
Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Australian Talk mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Re: [talk-au] More hi-res sat imagery

--- On Mon, 17/8/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:

 Don't forget to georeference the imagery if you are going
 to trace items. 

I noticed some of the traces in the Nambour area weren't properly sourced, a 
fair bit has been redone from survey now as well, but I usually do. Also there 
is hi-res in Cairns area too, I've put links to the areas covering the hires 
imagery on the wiki page:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikiproject_Queensland#Yahoo.21_Aerial_imagery_coverage


  

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Re: [talk-au] maps.bigtincan.com

--- On Mon, 17/8/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:

 Is this still working?
 
 I get connection refused when attempting to contact ...
 errors.
 
 When I attempt to connect to maps.bigtincan.com or
 maps.bigtincan.com/tagwatch/

Unfortunately it's down at the moment, we had to restart it last night and it 
got itself into an endless boot loop, this was about midnight so the system was 
dragged into the office where it should be fixed soon I hope and put back into 
the colo facility.


  

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Re: [talk-au] Hi, a noob starts some mapping.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:29:46 + (GMT)
John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote:

 
 
 --- On Mon, 17/8/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
 
  If there was no u-turn permitted then you would have to use
  a relation to indicate that.
 
 That's what I was talking about :)

Yes but some do it for oneway turns as well and it's not always necessary.

-- 
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Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....

--- On Mon, 17/8/09, BlueMM bluemm1975-...@yahoo.com wrote:
 A few questions:
 1. I presume the addr:country=Australia is manditory for
 this to work, but
 :state optional? I could imagine only needing state for
 state specific
 sheilds (ie. nationally consistent ones wouldn't need
 state).

The states vary on different shields, not just state routes.



 2. If a Route has the same ref/name for it's length, there
 doesn't seem to
 be any problem with having just one relation, combining the
 tags. I think
 this would make simple cases simple to map (always a good
 thing).

I haven't started work on state based highways, been working on highway 1 
mostly, and it changes names a fair bit, but I still think 2 relations would be 
better than lumping it together and for consistency with other highways.

 3. I think you suggested if there is no underlying street
 name for a section
 of highway, copy/move the name from the relation to the
 way, is that right?

No, if there is no street name don't name the way, this way things will render 
better because you won't get highway names going round roundabouts and over 
bridges even though they are part of the same highway.

 I'd prefer the other way, where the name is stored in the
 relation so a lot
 of the ways would have no name (the validators/no-names
 maps would need to
 be updated to grab data from relations if they don't
 already do. I think
 this would be a nice clean solution, and matches the
 suggestion ages ago to
 put a street name in a relation when it is broken up by
 many residential
 roundabouts...

Exactly, and bridges, and not naming ways reduces the chance of error, and the 
ease to fix up errors, and reduces a lot of redundancy because the same name 
doesn't have to be added to 100s of ways.


  

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[Talk-de] Warum immer die ...more OSM coming soon Kacheln

2009-08-16 Thread Jens von Elling

In letzter Zeit gibt?s immer wieder diese häßlichen more OSM coming 
soon Kacheln.

Sind die Rechner überfordert !
Wie kann ich das umgehen.

Jens


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Re: [Talk-de] Doppelte Wege - Untersuchung

2009-08-16 Thread Werner Hoch

Hallo Steffen,

On Dienstag, 11. August 2009, Steffen Wolf wrote:
 Ich bereite mal eine GPX-Datei fuer ganz Deutschland vor, mit Wegen
 mit mehr als 4 gemeinsamen Knoten. Damit koennte man in JOSM schnell
 die Fehler entfernen. Ich halt mich aber lieber mit Aenderungen
 mangels Ortskenntnis zurueck.

  http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~stw/germany-5.gpx

Ich bin die Fehler in Baden-Württemberg durchgegangen und habe die 
meisten auch behoben. Fehler bei denen Ortskenntnis erforderlich ist 
habe ich nicht korrigiert.

Besteht die Möglichkeit nur die Punkte in das GPX-File aufzunehmen, die 
an den doppelten Wegen beteiligt sind?
Ich musste bei manchen Wegen ein Weilchen suchen, bis ich die Doppelung 
gefunden hatte.
Beispiel:
  Weg1: abcdefghijklmnopq
  Weg2: abc
  Weg3: mno
Im GPX-File sollten nur die Wegpunkte abc und mno auftauchen.

Grüsse
Werner (werner2101)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/werner2101/edits









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Re: [Talk-de] Noch ein kurioses Schild...

2009-08-16 Thread Adiac

Am Samstag 15 August 2009 13:59:51 schrieb Garry:
 Ich zitiere aus der RSA:
Kannst Du bitte den Link dazu noch posten? Danke.

 Garry
Adiac

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Re: [Talk-de] Hausnummern im JOSM-Stil

2009-08-16 Thread Sven Sommerkamp

Am Donnerstag, 13. August 2009 18:38:41 schrieb Dirk Stöcker:
 On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Nop wrote:
  Ich kenne einige Leute ohne technischen Hintergrund, die begeistert
  Mappen, aber sagen daß sie mit JOSM nicht zurechtkommen. Zitat: in dem
  Liniengewirr kann ich nichts erkennen. Und meine instinktive Reaktion
  selbst als Poweruser ist, daß ich in dem Chaos aus Detailtexten nix mehr
  erkennen kann. Schlimm genug, um mir meinen eigenen Stil zu bauen.

 Genau dafür habe ich einen Haufen Arbeit in die Weiterentwicklung der
 Stilunterstützung gesteckt. Jetzt ist die Zeit das Andere eben
 solche Anzeigestile entwickeln. Wenn die dann da sind können wir JOSM
 anpassen, um etwaige Probleme oder Ergänzungen in Angriff zu nehmen.

 Wie ich aber sehe ist z.B. Dein OSMC-Stil immer noch nicht in der Liste
 drin.

 Und das ist das Problem. Es gibt zwar viele die wissen wie man es besser
 macht, aber keiner macht etwas.
Das Grundproblem ist dort: Es gibt Leute mit villeicht einem Gefühl für eine 
gute Benutzschnittstelle, aber die können meistens nicht programmieren, so wie 
ich.

Andere können gut programmieren, aber die sind bereits so tief in der Materie 
das sie die Probleme der nicht so Bewanderten gar nicht nachvollziehen können.

Firmen die ein Produkt enwickeln versuchen dies gut zu verbinden indem sie 
Unwissende ein Produkt testen lassen und dann versuchen es entsprechend zu 
verändern, bis möglichst viele damit gut klarkommen.

Du erwartest jetzt von denen die Probleme mit dem Editor haben: Sie sollen 
selber in die Tasten hauen.

Aber das kann nicht funktionieren, denn man kann sich nicht selbst 
überraschen..

Insofern ist der Ratschlag selber in die Tasten zu hauen gar nicht immer 
zielführend, außer man schafft es sich irgendwie dumm zu stellen und 
gleichzeitig wissend zu sein... ;-)

 Ciao

Gruß Sven


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Re: [Talk-de] Batchverarbeitung von OSM Daten

2009-08-16 Thread Martin Garbe

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 08:55:53PM +0200, Sven Sommerkamp wrote:
 Am Samstag, 15. August 2009 19:56:23 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
  Am 15. August 2009 19:55 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer 
 dieterdre...@gmail.com:
   Am 15. August 2009 18:17 schrieb Martin Garbe
 
  Hoehendaten _der Gebaeude_
 Du wills dann die Geb?ude 3Dimensional machen?

Ja.Wir haben zwar keine schoennen Daecher, aber wenigstens kann man sich
die Stadt dann mit den XNavigator von osm-3d anschauen und man bekommt
dann reale Daten zu sehen

Gruss
Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] surface-Karte

2009-08-16 Thread Jan Tappenbeck

Moin !

vielleicht hilft Dir das weiter:

http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/kosmos/data/luebeck_surface/deu/hl_surface.php

Gruß Jan :-)

Falk Zscheile schrieb:
 Moin moin,
 
 gibt es eine Karte, die das surface-Tag rendert bzw. als Overlay darstellt?
 
 Gruß, Falk


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Re: [Talk-de] All in One Europa jetzt wöchentlich aktu ell

2009-08-16 Thread Adiac

Am Samstag 15 August 2009 16:21:31 schrieb Christoph Wagner:
 Hallo Liste,

 der neue Tilesplitter hat es echt in sich und schafft jetzt mal eben
 ganz Europa zu splitten ohne extrem viel Speicher zu fressen.
 Das wiederum gibt mir die Möglichkeit die Europakarte regelmäßig auf
 Svens Server berechnen zu lassen. (Update jeden Mittwoch)
Sehr schön und vielen Dank schonmal vorab :)

 Viel spaß mit der Karte.
Na das hoffe ich doch - sonst berichte ich.

 Grüße
 Christoph
MfG

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Re: [Talk-de] Daten von Behörden

2009-08-16 Thread Adiac

Am Samstag 15 August 2009 22:34:38 schrieb Tobias Wendorff:
 Am Sa, 15.08.2009, 17:41 schrieb Wolfgang Wienke:
  Hallo,
  gibtes eigentlich eine offzielle Stelle des OSM, die evtl. Behörden
  anschreibt mit der Bitte um Daten?

 Nicht nach den Daten direkt fragen, das geht manchmal böse nach hinten los.
Wie meinst Du das?

MfG

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[Talk-de] csv-wiki-fähige tabelle - skript ??

2009-08-16 Thread Jan Tappenbeck

Moin !

hat einer von euch ein (perl)-skript um aus einer csv-datei eine 
wiki-formatierte tabelle zu machen ??

gruß Jan :-)

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[Talk-de] OSM-API Error

2009-08-16 Thread Heinz-Jürgen Oertel

Hallo, nach dem Erweitern einer Relation bekam ich beim Hochladen folgenden 
Fehler:

Hochladen fehlgeschlagen.
NameError: initialized constant Changeset::SCALE(Kode=500)


Was nun?

JOSM Version 1788
Java 1.6.0.0

 Heinz

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Re: [Talk-de] Vermessung der Höhen von Hessen

2009-08-16 Thread Tobias Wendorff

Am So, 16.08.2009, 01:22 schrieb Johann H. Addicks:
 Fips Schneider schrieb:


 Sicher wie üblich für private Zwecke.
 Und diejenigen, die das sagen fühlen sich dabei sicher sogar noch
 richtig großzügig.

Hinweis:
Das ist aber nicht so zu interpretieren, dass man die Daten nur zum
privat Zweck nutzen will, um daraus Informationen für OSM zu erzeugen.
Es schließt vielmehr jede Weitergabe an Dritte in irgendeiner Form aus.

Außer Du orientierst Dich an den Informationen und machst Dein eigenes,
besseres Netz, welche die Fehler des Radrouten-Planers vermeidet.


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Re: [Talk-de] OSM-API Error

Heinz-Jürgen Oertel schrieb:
 Hallo, nach dem Erweitern einer Relation bekam ich beim Hochladen folgenden 
 Fehler:

 Hochladen fehlgeschlagen.
 NameError: initialized constant Changeset::SCALE(Kode=500)

   
Das scheint ein allgemeines Problem zu sein, in im IRC (#osm auf oftc)
haben sich auch schon einige gemeldet.
Das Changeset kann angelegt werden, aber mehr auch nicht. Einige Edits
können hochgeladen werden, andere nicht. Ein System dahinter hat bisher
noch niemand entdeckt.
 Was nun?
   
Warten, bis ein Admin sich die Sache angeschaut hat. Leider konnte
bisher noch keiner erreicht werden.


Grüße

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[Talk-de] josm und osm api gestört

2009-08-16 Thread Thomas Schäfer

Tachchen Liste,

habe ich heute Pech oder steckt im Moment der Wurm in OSM?

Ich wollte heute meine Urlaubstracks einarbeiten. Es ging los mit josm. 
Entwicklerversion und aktuelle(tested) liegen meilenweit auseinander. Die 
Plugins verlangen etwas dazwischen. Habe mich dann für 1980 entschieden.

Und nun mitten im Editieren - internal Servererror bzw. 
beim Plattformstatus im wiki heißt es lapidar:

editing problems, Precondition failed errors


Lohnt es sich heute nochmal einen Versuch zu unternehmen?

Oder soll man lieber gleich warten, bis das kommende Wartungswochenende vorbei 
ist?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Thomas Schäfer

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Re: [Talk-de] OSM-API Error

2009-08-16 Thread Thomas Schäfer

Am Sonntag 16 August 2009 schrieb Heinz-Jürgen Oertel:
 Hallo, nach dem Erweitern einer Relation bekam ich beim Hochladen folgenden
 Fehler:

 Hochladen fehlgeschlagen.
 NameError: initialized constant Changeset::SCALE(Kode=500)

Gleiches Problem hier:
josm 1980
java version 1.6.0_15

POST http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/2162497/upload... Internal 
Server Error
Error header: NameError: uninitialized constant Changeset::SCALE

Gruß
Thomas

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Re: [Talk-de] Daten von Behörden

2009-08-16 Thread Tobias Wendorff

Am So, 16.08.2009, 11:01 schrieb Adiac:

 Nicht nach den Daten direkt fragen, das geht manchmal böse nach hinten
 los.
 Wie meinst Du das?

Bei zahlreichen Kommunikationen habe ich erfahren, dass gerade solche
Thematischen Karten bei Dritten in Auftrag gegeben wurden. Die Weitergabe
ist dann nicht immer simpel.

Außerdem ziehen die Freigabe von Daten häufig wieder Arbeitszeit für die
Behörde mit sich - eine einfache Freigabe des WMS ist meist simpler.

Man muss halt vorallem erwirken, dass wir in Augen derer keine direkte
Konkurrenznten darstellen: Wenn wir einfach deren Daten übernehmen,
bräuchten sie keinen eigenen Dienst mehr - wollen die das? etc.


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Re: [Talk-de] OSM-API Error

Läuft wieder, firefishy hat ein paar Änderungen revertet, die das
Problem verursacht haben.

Grüße

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Re: [Talk-de] Vermessung der Höhen von Hessen // Nac htrag

2009-08-16 Thread Tobias Wendorff

Am So, 16.08.2009, 01:22 schrieb Johann H. Addicks:

 Sicher wie üblich für private Zwecke.
 Und diejenigen, die das sagen fühlen sich dabei sicher sogar noch
 richtig großzügig.

Habe was vergessen: Ich spreche übrigens lieber vom eigenen Zweck, denn
die eigene gewerbliche Nutzung ist auch okay!


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Re: [Talk-de] josm und osm api gestört