Re: [OSM-talk] feasibility - different use of openstreetmap

[Peter Körner]

> Question:
> Would it be possible/feasible to setup a map server like openstreetmap 
> that shows all the street/roads along with my aerial photography and 
> field outlines, and then make a search for the field by customer, by 
> legal description or by field name?

I'm unsure about the technical details, but in general you would need a 
apache with mod_tile [0] / renderd / mapnik [1] to render your 
street-tiles with transparent background.

Your Areal photos could (should?) be supplied by a WMS-Server (?)

Both would be bundled together with OpenLayers [2]. As they also support 
vector drawings from external sources (GML, KML, etc.) I would suggest 
to put the field-outlines in here.

Especially transparent street-tiles would be very cool to share to the 
community. If I'ts not possible to publish the tiles you may want to 
publish the styles-file & configurations you used to generate them to 
the wiki.

Good Look with your Project,
Peter



[0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mod_tile
[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik
[2] http://openlayers.org/

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Re: [OSM-talk] feasibility - different use of openstreetmap

[John Smith]

2009/9/23 Peter Körner :
>> Question:
>> Would it be possible/feasible to setup a map server like openstreetmap
>> that shows all the street/roads along with my aerial photography and
>> field outlines, and then make a search for the field by customer, by
>> legal description or by field name?
>
> I'm unsure about the technical details, but in general you would need a
> apache with mod_tile [0] / renderd / mapnik [1] to render your
> street-tiles with transparent background.
>
> Your Areal photos could (should?) be supplied by a WMS-Server (?)
>
> Both would be bundled together with OpenLayers [2]. As they also support
> vector drawings from external sources (GML, KML, etc.) I would suggest
> to put the field-outlines in here.
>
> Especially transparent street-tiles would be very cool to share to the
> community. If I'ts not possible to publish the tiles you may want to
> publish the styles-file & configurations you used to generate them to
> the wiki.

I'm trying to figure out how to do a similar thing with post codes,
for the moment I've got a very basic mapnik style sheet that just
produces town names, country borders and shaded postcode areas.

http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=7&ll=-33.52829,148.04077&layer=00B00FF

OpenLayers can do semi-transparent layers over the top of a base
layer, so I'll probably be going down that path too:

http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=7&lat=-32.52829&lon=148.04077&layers=00B000TF

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Re: [OSM-talk] intent to vandalize

[Gregory Williams]

> -Original Message-
> From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
> boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of John Smith
> Sent: 23 September 2009 07:53
> To: maning sambale
> Cc: osm-talk
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] intent to vandalize
> 
> 2009/9/23 maning sambale :
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Fake%20Liam123/diary/8007#comments
> 
> That account hasn't made any edits...

Don't worry. In the UK we've had issues with a "Liam123" making questionable
edits. This is just somebody else that's set up a separate account "Fake
Liam123" (much alike "Fake SteveC" or "Fake RichardF") and is just poking a
bit out of the situation. I'm pretty sure that there's nothing malicious
actually going on.

Gregory


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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[paul youlten]

Just noticed this on the front page of Wikipedia:

"Did you know...

...that in 2009 two MIT students made a vehicle to take pictures of
the Earth from 93,000 feet (28,000 m) for US$148?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Icarus

PaulY

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Joe Richards  wrote:
>
>
> Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or 
> was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)?
>
>
>
> Given the US have forgotten to keep the GPS system up to date, maybe
> we need a few satelites of our own to replace it... Or maybe we can
> use Galileo once its up instead.
>
> This was more about high-resolution aerial photography suitable for deriving 
> traces.
>
> As for geopositioning satellites, I doubt the US military-industrial complex 
> (or its adherents in places like Europe) will allow such a key technology to 
> fall into real disrepair. Plus with future civilian receivers combining 
> signals from Galileo and GPS, alongside radio signals, the future is actually 
> looking brighter than ever...
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[John Smith]

2009/9/23 paul youlten :
> Just noticed this on the front page of Wikipedia:
>
> "Did you know...
>
> ...that in 2009 two MIT students made a vehicle to take pictures of
> the Earth from 93,000 feet (28,000 m) for US$148?"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Icarus

Yes but almost none of the imagery would be useful for vectorising however.

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[OSM-talk] embed picture with josm

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

hi,
can one embed images with josm? if so, how?
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Senior Project Officer
NRC-FOSS
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/

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Re: [OSM-talk] embed picture with josm

[SLXViper]

Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> hi,
> can one embed images with josm? if so, how?
>   

by using either the piclayer plugin (for correctly projected and
rectified images, e.g. maps) or, when using own aerial imagery (not
rectified), by using metacarta's map recitifier or mapwarper and
embedding these services via wmsplugin.

regards

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[OSM-talk] OSM in Poland

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

at the Intergeo trade fair, I spoke to a guy from the university in 
Wroclaw, Poland, who was interested in getting in touch with the Polish 
OSM community (with a view of asking his students, who have to do a lot 
of surveying as part of their courses, to contribute to OSM).

I was about to say "just check out the Polish mailing list" when I found 
that while we do have lots of mailing lists for quite small countries, 
there's none for Poland.

So where does the Polish OSM community hang out? Checked the Wiki and 
found nothing in terms of regular meetings or in fact any contact 
address or real name. Do they perhaps have a forum or something? Is 
there perhaps anyone in Wroclaw who would be willing to work with the 
university on this?

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Poland

[Ciprian Talaba]

Hi Frederik,

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

>
> So where does the Polish OSM community hang out? Checked the Wiki and
> found nothing in terms of regular meetings or in fact any contact
> address or real name. Do they perhaps have a forum or something? Is
> there perhaps anyone in Wroclaw who would be willing to work with the
> university on this?
>
>
I have found this one: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=23

--Ciprian
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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[paul youlten]

> Yes but almost none of the imagery would be useful for vectorising however.

How be difficult would it be to adapt their low-cost approach to give
more useful images for mapping? Is it just a matter of attaching the
camera to some sort of gimbal?

... because you'd only sending it up to 3,500m (rather than 30,000m)
you wouldn't need to worry so much about low temperatures freezing the
batteries.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:00 AM, John Smith  wrote:
> 2009/9/23 paul youlten :
>> Just noticed this on the front page of Wikipedia:
>>
>> "Did you know...
>>
>> ...that in 2009 two MIT students made a vehicle to take pictures of
>> the Earth from 93,000 feet (28,000 m) for US$148?"
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Icarus
>
> Yes but almost none of the imagery would be useful for vectorising however.
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[John Smith]

2009/9/23 paul youlten :
> ... because you'd only sending it up to 3,500m (rather than 30,000m)
> you wouldn't need to worry so much about low temperatures freezing the
> batteries.

At that altitude you wouldn't have to worry about the balloon bursting
at that altitude either.

The bigger issue would be the weight of the tether.

RC blimp might also be more practical since you could steer it etc.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[paul youlten]

> RC blimp might also be more practical since you could steer it etc.

Do modern RC controls have that sort of range? 3.5km seems a lot... an
alternative would be to control it with GPS and some sort of
electronic flight plan/autopilot.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:16 AM, John Smith  wrote:
> 2009/9/23 paul youlten :
>> ... because you'd only sending it up to 3,500m (rather than 30,000m)
>> you wouldn't need to worry so much about low temperatures freezing the
>> batteries.
>
> At that altitude you wouldn't have to worry about the balloon bursting
> at that altitude either.
>
> The bigger issue would be the weight of the tether.
>

>



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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Poland

[andrzej zaborowski]

Hi,

2009/9/23 Frederik Ramm :
>    at the Intergeo trade fair, I spoke to a guy from the university in
> Wroclaw, Poland, who was interested in getting in touch with the Polish
> OSM community (with a view of asking his students, who have to do a lot
> of surveying as part of their courses, to contribute to OSM).

This would be very useful to OSM.

>
> I was about to say "just check out the Polish mailing list" when I found
> that while we do have lots of mailing lists for quite small countries,
> there's none for Poland.
>
> So where does the Polish OSM community hang out? Checked the Wiki and
> found nothing in terms of regular meetings or in fact any contact
> address or real name. Do they perhaps have a forum or something?

There's the forum at
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=23 with a tiny
community, it's rather silent but in the healthy way, meaning that
people are busy mapping :)  I would have much preferred a mailing list
but others don't seem very enthusiastic about this.

I don't know of any meetings other than mine with user:Mala

> Is
> there perhaps anyone in Wroclaw who would be willing to work with the
> university on this?

There's at least one user from Wroclaw reading the forums.  Wroclaw
municipality is also cooperative and allowed us to use their super
exact aerial photography of the city (10cm or so per pixel) and I
think some other WMS layers.

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[John Smith]

2009/9/23 paul youlten :
>> RC blimp might also be more practical since you could steer it etc.
>
> Do modern RC controls have that sort of range? 3.5km seems a lot... an
> alternative would be to control it with GPS and some sort of
> electronic flight plan/autopilot.

Do you need to go above 1km?

There is usually more restristrictions on UAVs than RC aircraft.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

paul youlten wrote:
> Do modern RC controls have that sort of range? 3.5km seems a lot... an
> alternative would be to control it with GPS and some sort of
> electronic flight plan/autopilot.

I always thought that aviation regulations require the pilot - whether 
on board or on the ground - to monitor the airspace around the aircraft 
and take evasive action where necessary. It would be hard to do that on 
the ground for an aircraft that far up. But maybe that depends on the 
country you're in. I think in the US it is pretty much "everything goes" 
up to 1200 feet AGL or so but after that you have to behave.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[John Smith]

2009/9/23 Frederik Ramm :
> I always thought that aviation regulations require the pilot - whether on
> board or on the ground - to monitor the airspace around the aircraft and
> take evasive action where necessary. It would be hard to do that on the
> ground for an aircraft that far up. But maybe that depends on the country
> you're in. I think in the US it is pretty much "everything goes" up to 1200
> feet AGL or so but after that you have to behave.

The other question to be asked is the time, effort and money put into
this be less than archived sat imagery which is about $14 per sq km.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[paul youlten]

>The other question to be asked is the time, effort and money put into
>this be less than archived sat imagery which is about $14 per sq km.

Yeah...but it would be fun to try!

... and while $14/sq Km doesn't sound a lot it would still cost $5376
(£4900) just to get images of (for example) the Isle of Wight in the
UK, $11000 (€7440) to get pictures of New York City and $8000 (€5414)
for the island of Ibiza in Spain.


On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:38 AM, John Smith  wrote:
> 2009/9/23 Frederik Ramm :
>> I always thought that aviation regulations require the pilot - whether on
>> board or on the ground - to monitor the airspace around the aircraft and
>> take evasive action where necessary. It would be hard to do that on the
>> ground for an aircraft that far up. But maybe that depends on the country
>> you're in. I think in the US it is pretty much "everything goes" up to 1200
>> feet AGL or so but after that you have to behave.
>
> The other question to be asked is the time, effort and money put into
> this be less than archived sat imagery which is about $14 per sq km.
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[John Smith]

2009/9/23 paul youlten :
>>The other question to be asked is the time, effort and money put into
>>this be less than archived sat imagery which is about $14 per sq km.
>
> Yeah...but it would be fun to try!
>
> ... and while $14/sq Km doesn't sound a lot it would still cost $5376
> (£4900) just to get images of (for example) the Isle of Wight in the
> UK, $11000 (€7440) to get pictures of New York City and $8000 (€5414)
> for the island of Ibiza in Spain.

You're implying that there wouldn't be transport and other logistical
costs, it doesn't matter which way you go it isn't going to be free to
go from place to place etc etc etc

Instead of a toy/rc blimp, maybe it might be practical to make a full
size one. You could have living quaters, internet connectivity and so
on and so forth :)

Maybe you could pick up a second hand one on the cheap :)

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 22 Sep 2009, at 17:44, malenki wrote:


| There was an error saving your changes

Odd, I'll take a look, can you paste the URL to the thumbnail to help  
me identify it?



Besides there seems to be no way (atm) to edit several pictures in a
row. MArking some and clicking "mask sections" showed up only the
first.
Yeah, this is something I'd like in the future but haven't had chance  
to do yet, definitely something I want in the future.




It would be nice to have p...@openstreetmap.org on gmane.
I'm not actually sure what you mean by this, is it something I need to  
set up for the pho...@openstreetmap.org mailing list?


For moderating photos:
1) It would be handy to be able to see the pictures in full resolution
since its a difference if a car with licence plate is photographed  
with

a 320x240 cam of a mobile phone or with a 12MP SLR. The thumbnails
aren't much helpful there.
Currently you see the image at max 1024 width/height, that's the  
biggest that is available, I recommend that you use a judgement call  
and mask out things if there's potential for them to be visible


2) If there are just few people like me who log & photograph all day
long for OSM, soon it will be hard work moderating all the thousands  
of

pictures. At my most productive day I made 1740 of them...

Yes... we'll have to see what we can do in the future, I'd say  
automated masking with human verification might be one option.




Questions: Housenumbers would not be a privacy problem I hope?


I don't believe so, I'd say they were useful.


I quite often make photographs of the ground when the highways surface
changes, Parking place starts here, ands here - are these kind  
pictures

welcome also?

Are there kinds of pictures you would not like to see on your server?
I suppose photos of the ground might be used as part of a 3D model but  
in general if it really does just look like a bit of gravel or  
completely sky then it's probably not useful. I'd say we don't want  
indoors photos, photos that are mainly inside a car or where the GPS  
is taking up most of the picture that said, we will need to allow  
photos of GPSes to be uploaded when we do server-side geotagging (i.e.  
uploading traces).


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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[Robert Scott]

On Wednesday 23 September 2009, paul youlten wrote:
> How be difficult would it be to adapt their low-cost approach to give
> more useful images for mapping?

Very. Getting steady images from a balloon would be very difficult, even with a 
gimbal. The payload swings like a pendulum. You also wouldn't be able to 
control where the balloon went. You would have a very hard time fighting 
against wind with an RC blimp.

Current efforts doing UAV aerial imagery revolve around fixed wing aircraft and 
to a lesser extent helicopters. They have limited flight times but are looking 
quite promising.


robert.

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[OSM-talk] Field boundaries (was: feasibility - different use of openstreetmap)

[Ed Avis]

In the UK, certainly large-scale Ordnance Survey maps show field boundaries.
There is some incomprehensible (to me) information about 'field parcel numbers'
at .

It would be great to add them to OSM but I don't think walking along the 
boundary
of each field with a GPS device is a practical way to do it.  And 
high-resolution
aerial photography is unlikely to be available for rural areas.  So I wonder
where the OS get their data from?

-- 
Ed Avis 


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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] The OpenStreetMap website is now translatable at Translatewiki

[Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> But which OSM components does this cover? I'm assuming this only covers the
> main OSM website (and the wiki indirectly since MediaWiki is already in
> TranslateWiki) but not Potlatch, and the other editors.

It's only the website at the moment as Siebrand says. But it would be
very nice to add other OpenStreetMap applications, the most obvious
next step being Potlatch.

To add Potlatch some internal changes need to be done in Potlatch
itself. I've filed a bug detailing what these are:

http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2304

I don't think Richard minds this change to Potlatch but he'd rather
not do the work since he's working on Potlatch 2. Changing this is
easy even if you're not familiar with Potlatch, you just have to
change all the calls to the iText(): remove the first parameter and
split it ont a YAML file.

If you (or someone else) interested in seeing Potlatch on
Translatewiki solving that bug is the first step towards doing that.
The second one is hacking an importer/exporter for Potlatch's YAML
format for Translatewiki. That's easy though, it's just a matter of
reusing the existing YAML code without all the complexities we had to
deal with for supporting applications using Rails' i18n framework.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[Chris Hill]

The OS have their own aerial survey 'plane, currently based in Blackpool 
I think.  A large part of their rural mapping updates comes from this hi 
res photography.  They don't choose to release these photos for general 
use of course.  An OS 'plane used to be based at an airfield I used to 
fly from.

Cheers, Chris

Ed Avis wrote:
> In the UK, certainly large-scale Ordnance Survey maps show field boundaries.
> There is some incomprehensible (to me) information about 'field parcel 
> numbers'
> at .
>
> It would be great to add them to OSM but I don't think walking along the 
> boundary
> of each field with a GPS device is a practical way to do it.  And 
> high-resolution
> aerial photography is unlikely to be available for rural areas.  So I wonder
> where the OS get their data from?
>
>   


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Re: [OSM-talk] Evolution of a map

[Francesco de Virgilio]

2009/9/21 Valent Turkovic :
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:25:37 +0300, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
>
>> I've done something primitive based on some shell scripting and the
>> mapnik render; the code isn't published yet, but I can publish it, if
>> you want.
>
>
> Please do.


+1

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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[Andrew Errington]

On Wed, September 23, 2009 19:44, Robert Scott wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 September 2009, paul youlten wrote:
>
>> How be difficult would it be to adapt their low-cost approach to give
>> more useful images for mapping?
>
> Very. Getting steady images from a balloon would be very difficult, even
> with a gimbal. The payload swings like a pendulum. You also wouldn't be
> able to control where the balloon went. You would have a very hard time
> fighting against wind with an RC blimp.

You could stabilise the camera with a gyroscope, spinning around a
vertical axis.  It would consume power to keep it spinning, and, by
definition, it would add weight, but if the camera was pointing straight
down when the gyroscope was started, then the gyroscope would tend to keep
the axis vertical.

And you wouldn't need to care where the balloon went, as long as it went
somewhere you hadn't mapped yet.

Or something.

A


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Re: [OSM-talk] good news: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org

[Jason Cunningham]

2009/9/22 Morten Kjeldgaard 

> I am sorry, but I don't understand. Roman references an email from the
> communications officer of Ramsar, and you are worried? You say the sites in
> U.K. have "probably" been mapped by BOS? What kind of authority do you
> represent to convince us that your concerns should be ours as well?
>

I dont know how to answer this "authority" question, it does not seem
relevant to openstreetmap, or the point I raised. No one in the in the
OpenStreetMap community has "authority".

My interest in OSM is not mapping of streets, its the mapping of wildlife
sites and habitat, which includes Ramsar sites. In the UK we have very
limited access to maps of wildlife sites. Google is only interested in
streets. Maps we do have are owned by Ordnance Survey which restricts use.
Local Groups that commonly manage wildlife sites in the UK usually can not
afford to pay Ordnance Survey.

UK authorities use Ordnance Survey for preparing maps of their Nature
Conservation data, and I know that use of this data is restricted by
copyright. The data for the UK Ramsar sites will have come from JNCC, and
its clear from looking at the JNCC site (which holds data in the UK) that
the mapping data is derived from OS maps. In fact you can directly download
the data prepared for European Bodies from the website, but with
restrictions due to it being derived from OS maps.

I am hoping that JNCC has had to enter into a contract with OS to allow them
to submit the data to various European bodies without copyright
restrictions. If so this is an important set of data for UK users, we have
access to up-to-date OS data without copyright restrictions.

But I, and I assume a lot of UK users of OSM would be surprised if the data
had been supplied to the European bodies without some form of restriction.
This is not based on "Authority" as you put it, but on years of experience
of how OS works. In fact OpenStreetMap was created, in large part, as a
response to the copyright attitude of OS.

I would counter that the British government -- if they indeed stood for the
> measurements of the data -- has "probably" signed copyright over to the
> Ramsar organization.
>
> The British Government (or JNCC) would have to buy the 'copyright' for this
data. This British Government has little interest in wildlife in the UK, it
definitely has no 'measurable' interest in supporting European Bodies
involved with wildlife. They are constantly loosing court cases in Europe
and I wouldn't be surprised if they had handed over the data with
restrictions, despite having an agreement to provide the data with no
restrictions.

To repeat, I am not saying the data must not be used, I am simply raising an
issue because I think there may be a problem. I don't trust the British
Government and OS. I would genuinely surprised (and pleased) if JNCC had
paid OS to remove copyright. I also look forward to seeing Ramsar sites
added.

Jason
user:jamicu
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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[Jack Stringer]

Get a Canon IS lens on a SLR, the ones I have are quite good and mixed
with a f-stop of 2.8 it means plenty of light so fast shutter speeds
are easier. Only problem is weight, the latest kit weights a few kilos
1.7Kg IRRC just for the lens.


Jack Stringer

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[OSM-talk] Aeroplane for OSM

[bernhard]

Hi All

Satellite und balloon are not perfect to take orthophotos.
Why not buy an aeroplane for OSM?


Maybe it would be possible to buy (build) a Camera, GPS,... Unit to 
mount at a plane and rent the plane.
Many governments need orthophotos and maybe they are willing to sponsor 
the plane for some hours if
they get usefull public domain images.

Bernhard

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Re: [OSM-talk] Aeroplane for OSM

[Matt Williams]

2009/9/23 bernhard :
> Hi All
>
> Satellite und balloon are not perfect to take orthophotos.
> Why not buy an aeroplane for OSM?
>
>
> Maybe it would be possible to buy (build) a Camera, GPS,... Unit to
> mount at a plane and rent the plane.
> Many governments need orthophotos and maybe they are willing to sponsor
> the plane for some hours if
> they get usefull public domain images.

Have a look at a lot of the recent discussion on talk-gb. We recently
hired a plane to fly over Stratford-upon-Avon to collect imagery.
We're currently in the process of stitching it together to be used for
tracing.

-- 
Matt Williams
http://milliams.com

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Re: [OSM-talk] embed picture with josm

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Wednesday 23 Sep 2009 1:55:24 pm SLXViper wrote:
> Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> > hi,
> > can one embed images with josm? if so, how?
> >  
>
> by using either the piclayer plugin (for correctly projected and
> rectified images, e.g. maps) or, when using own aerial imagery (not
> rectified), by using metacarta's map recitifier or mapwarper and
> embedding these services via wmsplugin.

actually I was looking at sort of loading a non-tagged picture into josm and 
manually pasting it where I want - looks like this is not possible!
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Senior Project Officer
NRC-FOSS
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in Poland

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

andrzej zaborowski wrote:
> There's the forum at
> http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=23 with a tiny
> community, it's rather silent but in the healthy way, meaning that
> people are busy mapping :)  I would have much preferred a mailing list
> but others don't seem very enthusiastic about this.

Very good, thanks to you and Ciprian, I will point him to the forum then.

> There's at least one user from Wroclaw reading the forums.  Wroclaw
> municipality is also cooperative and allowed us to use their super
> exact aerial photography of the city (10cm or so per pixel) and I
> think some other WMS layers.

Yes I remember that I was quite surprised to see *very* detailed 
building outlines (garden sheds? dog houses?) in the South-East.

Bye
Frederik


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Re: [OSM-talk] embed picture with josm

[SLXViper]

Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> actually I was looking at sort of loading a non-tagged picture into
> josm and
> manually pasting it where I want - looks like this is not possible!
>   
This is what piclayer actually does... Haven't you looked at it?

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Re: [OSM-talk] embed picture with josm

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Wednesday 23 Sep 2009 5:53:45 pm SLXViper wrote:
> Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> > actually I was looking at sort of loading a non-tagged picture into
> > josm and
> > manually pasting it where I want - looks like this is not possible!
> >  
>
> This is what piclayer actually does... Haven't you looked at it?

I looked at it - I could manipulate the picture and put it the size I want in 
the place I want - but could not figure out how to paste it - every time I 
chose 'upload', it says 'no changes made'. Also josm does not allow me to 
merge the pic layer with the existing downloaded layer.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Senior Project Officer
NRC-FOSS
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/

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[OSM-talk] deleted copyrighted material technically still in the database?

[maning sambale]

Whenever we see copyrighted material in OSM, we try to remove it
immediately.  But technically, it still in the database including
history and changeset.
Am I right in my assumptions?
-- 
cheers,
maning
--
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
--

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Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[Someoneelse]

Ed Avis wrote:
> In the UK, certainly large-scale Ordnance Survey maps show field boundaries.

I suspect that it depends on region, but in my experience the Ordnance 
Survey field boundary data as printed on their Explorer is based on 
actual boundaries some considerable time in the past.  That doesn't mean 
they don't have some other more accurate data in a format not readily 
reproduced on a printed map - maps such as this one:

http://maps.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/NottsCC.InteractiveMapping.Web.Internet/?e=461177&n=360114&mpp=160&layers=SEA.PLA.FP.BR.RB.BOAT&hLayer=&hField=&hValue=
suggest that they might.

In areas where there's complete public access (Open Access Land) or 
substantial public access (lots of paths and roads) or very large fields 
with straight edges it might be feasible to add field boundary data 
without too much effort, but failing that it's "do your own aerial 
survey" or actual surveying on the ground (taking bearings from known 
points).  Maybe that's a job for this winter...

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Re: [OSM-talk] deleted copyrighted material technically still in the database?

[Donald Allwright]

>From: maning sambale 
>To: osm-talk 
>Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 13:44:52
>Subject: [OSM-talk] deleted copyrighted material technically still in the 
>database?

>Whenever we see copyrighted material in OSM, we try to remove it
>immediately.  But technically, it still in the database including
>history and changeset.
>Am I right in my assumptions?


No-one should be removing copyrighted material from the database as a matter of 
course. We should only be removing copyrighted material if there is no clear 
evidence that the copyright holder has given permission for it to be used in 
this way. Some would argue that we should only remove it if there is clear 
evidence that the copyright holder *hasn't* given permission for it to be used 
in this way, although the OSM way is to be ultra-cautious where there is 
uncertainty.


Technically, it is still in the database, and a technically astute person could 
recover it. However it is not in the current version of the data that are 
provided using the default mechanisms, so it *could* be argued that OSM is not 
actively distributing it. It's similar to when people add code to a public 
repository then remove it again, it's usually still "there" somewhere. I am 
unaware of any legal cases in the UK (where OSM is based) that hinge around 
this residual availability, but then again I am not a lawyer and would 
certainly be interested to hear of any.

Regards,
Donald



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Re: [OSM-talk] deleted copyrighted material technically still in the database?

[Thomas Wood]

The Data Working Group have the powers to ensure the data is removed
permanently from the database and historical planet dumps.
To my knowledge, the planet dumps have been patched once in the past
to remove a serious copyvio.

2009/9/23 Donald Allwright :
>
>>From: maning sambale 
>>To: osm-talk 
>>Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 13:44:52
>>Subject: [OSM-talk] deleted copyrighted material technically still in the
>> database?
>
>>Whenever we see copyrighted material in OSM, we try to remove it
>>immediately.  But technically, it still in the database including
>>history and changeset.
>>Am I right in my assumptions?
>
> 
> No-one should be removing copyrighted material from the database as a matter
> of course. We should only be removing copyrighted material if there is no
> clear evidence that the copyright holder has given permission for it to be
> used in this way. Some would argue that we should only remove it if there is
> clear evidence that the copyright holder *hasn't* given permission for it to
> be used in this way, although the OSM way is to be ultra-cautious where
> there is uncertainty.
> 
>
> Technically, it is still in the database, and a technically astute person
> could recover it. However it is not in the current version of the data that
> are provided using the default mechanisms, so it *could* be argued that OSM
> is not actively distributing it. It's similar to when people add code to a
> public repository then remove it again, it's usually still "there"
> somewhere. I am unaware of any legal cases in the UK (where OSM is based)
> that hinge around this residual availability, but then again I am not a
> lawyer and would certainly be interested to hear of any.
>
> Regards,
> Donald
>
>
> ___
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>
>



-- 
Regards,
Thomas Wood
(Edgemaster)

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[OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Bev M Ewen-Smith]

Hi,

I am hoping to take my own vertical/near-vertical aerial photos.
Assuming that I can georeference them, what do I need to do to get 
them to show up under Potlach so that I can trace from them?

Bev


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Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[Ed Avis]

Someoneelse  mail.atownsend.org.uk> writes:

>>In the UK, certainly large-scale Ordnance Survey maps show field boundaries.
>
>I suspect that it depends on region, but in my experience the Ordnance 
>Survey field boundary data as printed on their Explorer is based on 
>actual boundaries some considerable time in the past.

Hmm, perhaps then tracing it from out-of-copyright maps is not such a bad 
idea...
Although most likely the one-inch maps currently emerging from copyright do not
have the field boundaries.

>That doesn't mean 
>they don't have some other more accurate data in a format not readily 
>reproduced on a printed map - maps such as this one:
> 
>http://maps.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/
>NottsCC.InteractiveMapping.Web.Internet/
>?e=461177&n=360114&mpp=160&layers=SEA.PLA.FP.BR.RB.BOAT
>/&hLayer=&hField=&hValue=
>
>suggest that they might.

Hmm, where do you see field information on that?

>In areas where there's complete public access (Open Access Land)

Ah yes, Open Access...

lets you see these areas superimposed on OS maps, but I didn't see a
place to download the whole data set.  Has anyone asked?

As for adding field boundaries by doing ground surveys, I think this is
too impossibly enormous a task, even for enthusiastic OSM mappers.  Perhaps
we could install GPS devices on every tractor in the country and over a couple
of years record ploughing patterns, which would let you deduce the shape of
arable fields...

-- 
Ed Avis 





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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Stefan de Konink]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Bev M Ewen-Smith schreef:
> I am hoping to take my own vertical/near-vertical aerial photos.
> Assuming that I can georeference them, what do I need to do to get 
> them to show up under Potlach so that I can trace from them?

For tracing and rectification qGIS is your friend :)


Stefan
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEAREKAAYFAkq6JTEACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0pwQCfSgy1vphwV8X02BD3JtJ/+hlf
F34An0AoRPHjjNqjoFPUfCMx8ygoGLkx
=SIjS
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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Stefan de Konink  wrote:

> Bev M Ewen-Smith schreef:
> > I am hoping to take my own vertical/near-vertical aerial photos.
> > Assuming that I can georeference them, what do I need to do to get
> > them to show up under Potlach so that I can trace from them?
>
> For tracing and rectification qGIS is your friend :)
>
>
You might also try MSR MapCruncher from Microsoft:

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/mapcruncher/
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Re: [OSM-talk] deleted copyrighted material technically still in the database?

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

This issue has cropped up with Wikipedia too. The view there is that even
though the copyrighted material is still available in the wiki page history,
this should not be a big concern. Deleting the material from the current
version of the page means that there is an intent to remove the infringing
material. But if necessary, then sysads can really delete the offending data
in the database.


On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:44 PM, maning sambale
wrote:

> Whenever we see copyrighted material in OSM, we try to remove it
> immediately.  But technically, it still in the database including
> history and changeset.
> Am I right in my assumptions?
> --
> cheers,
> maning
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] deleted copyrighted material technically still in the database?

[Donald Allwright]

>From: Eugene Alvin Villar 
>To: maning sambale 
>Cc: osm-talk 
>Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 14:57:38
>Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] deleted copyrighted material technically still in the 
>database?
>
>This issue has cropped up with Wikipedia too. The view there is that even 
>though the copyrighted material is still available in the wiki page history, 
>this should not be a big concern. Deleting the material from >the current 
>version of the page means that there is an intent to remove the infringing 
>material. But if necessary, then sysads can really delete the offending data 
>in the database.

Looks like from Thomas Wood's reply that we have this capability too, although 
it's worth noting that what's valid for wikipedia may not be directly relevant 
for OSM as they reside within different legal jurisdictions (US vs. England & 
Wales).

Donald



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Re: [OSM-talk] Aeroplane for OSM

[Jukka Rahkonen]

Matt Williams  milliams.com> writes:


> > Maybe it would be possible to buy (build) a Camera, GPS,... Unit to
> > mount at a plane and rent the plane.
> > Many governments need orthophotos and maybe they are willing to sponsor
> > the plane for some hours if
> > they get usefull public domain images.
> 
> Have a look at a lot of the recent discussion on talk-gb. We recently
> hired a plane to fly over Stratford-upon-Avon to collect imagery.
> We're currently in the process of stitching it together to be used for
> tracing.

Making orthophotos is pretty standard work and competition is hard. Governments
acquire already regularly (every 3-5 year) good quality aerial images for
mapping purposes. National Land Survey of Finland, for example, is selling these
images as orthophotos for a list price of 7.32 € per square km (0.5 meter pixel
size colour or false colour images).  I suppose that if you order your own
flight the cost of ready made orthophotos would be about 15-25 € per square km
but then the area should be reasonably big. The first flying hour is always the
most expensive.


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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] The OpenStreetMap website is now translatable at Translatewiki

[Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
 wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
>> But which OSM components does this cover? I'm assuming this only covers the
>> main OSM website (and the wiki indirectly since MediaWiki is already in
>> TranslateWiki) but not Potlatch, and the other editors.
>
> It's only the website at the moment as Siebrand says. But it would be
> very nice to add other OpenStreetMap applications, the most obvious
> next step being Potlatch.

It would also be a very interesting project to use Translatewiki to
translate some subsets of the OpenStreetMap data itself.

For instance country or state names, capitals, or cities with >0.5
million people, stuff like that.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Richard Fairhurst]

Bev M Ewen-Smith wrote:

> I am hoping to take my own vertical/near-vertical aerial
> photos. Assuming that I can georeference them, what do I need to do  
> to get them to show up under Potlach so that I can trace from them?

Potlatch likes tiled maps/imagery, just like OSM itself, and in fact  
using the same tiling system. If you ask over on the talk-gb list  
(assuming from your e-mail address that you're in the UK) there's a  
bunch of helpful people who have got our new Stratford imagery into  
Potlatch, and would hopefully be happy to do the same with yours.

cheers
Richard


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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[paul youlten]

This looks interesting:

http://www.slideshare.net/jpmund/aerial-photo-ballon-technique-mapasia2006

Does anyone know Jan-Peter Mund?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Mikel Maron]

Map Warper

http://warper.geothings.net/

open source, and uses OpenStreetMap for setting of control points.


- Original Message 
From: Bev M Ewen-Smith 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:36:23 AM
Subject: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

Hi,

I am hoping to take my own vertical/near-vertical aerial photos.
Assuming that I can georeference them, what do I need to do to get 
them to show up under Potlach so that I can trace from them?

Bev


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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[Mikel Maron]

Note OSM can qualify for non-profit pricing on imagery, which can take the cost 
down to $12/km2. This is what we arranged for the Gaza imagery.



- Original Message 
From: paul youlten 
To: John Smith 
Cc: Talk Openstreetmap 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:05:18 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

>The other question to be asked is the time, effort and money put into
>this be less than archived sat imagery which is about $14 per sq km.

Yeah...but it would be fun to try!

... and while $14/sq Km doesn't sound a lot it would still cost $5376
(£4900) just to get images of (for example) the Isle of Wight in the
UK, $11000 (€7440) to get pictures of New York City and $8000 (€5414)
for the island of Ibiza in Spain.


On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:38 AM, John Smith  wrote:
> 2009/9/23 Frederik Ramm :
>> I always thought that aviation regulations require the pilot - whether on
>> board or on the ground - to monitor the airspace around the aircraft and
>> take evasive action where necessary. It would be hard to do that on the
>> ground for an aircraft that far up. But maybe that depends on the country
>> you're in. I think in the US it is pretty much "everything goes" up to 1200
>> feet AGL or so but after that you have to behave.
>
> The other question to be asked is the time, effort and money put into
> this be less than archived sat imagery which is about $14 per sq km.
>



-- 
Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807

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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

> Bev M Ewen-Smith wrote:
>
> > I am hoping to take my own vertical/near-vertical aerial
> > photos. Assuming that I can georeference them, what do I need to do
> > to get them to show up under Potlach so that I can trace from them?
>
> Potlatch likes tiled maps/imagery, just like OSM itself, and in fact
> using the same tiling system. If you ask over on the talk-gb list
> (assuming from your e-mail address that you're in the UK) there's a
> bunch of helpful people who have got our new Stratford imagery into
> Potlatch, and would hopefully be happy to do the same with yours.
>

None of the Stratford images seem to be geocoded (at least the ones I saw on
Flickr or the photographer's server). Where did the GPX trace go?

Also, where is Stratford? When I do a search on Google, I get the one near
London that doesn't match the pictures at all...
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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Dave F.]

Stratford-upon-Avon 


http://osm.org/go/euylwx@


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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Matt Williams]

2009/9/23 Ian Dees :
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Richard Fairhurst 
> wrote:
>> Bev M Ewen-Smith wrote:
>>
>> > I am hoping to take my own vertical/near-vertical aerial
>> > photos. Assuming that I can georeference them, what do I need to do
>> > to get them to show up under Potlach so that I can trace from them?
>>
>> Potlatch likes tiled maps/imagery, just like OSM itself, and in fact
>> using the same tiling system. If you ask over on the talk-gb list
>> (assuming from your e-mail address that you're in the UK) there's a
>> bunch of helpful people who have got our new Stratford imagery into
>> Potlatch, and would hopefully be happy to do the same with yours.
>
> None of the Stratford images seem to be geocoded (at least the ones I saw on
> Flickr or the photographer's server). Where did the GPX trace go?
>
> Also, where is Stratford? When I do a search on Google, I get the one near
> London that doesn't match the pictures at all...

Take a look at http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/,
http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/stats.php and
http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/map.html. These were some tools I
threw together to rate the photos on how vertical they were and show
the results on a map.

As you will see, Stratford-upon-Avon is in the Midlands, not too far
from Coventry and Birmingham.

-- 
Matt Williams
http://milliams.com

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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Matt Williams  wrote:

> Take a look at http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/,
> http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/stats.php and
> http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/map.html. These were some tools I
> threw together to rate the photos on how vertical they were and show
> the results on a map.
>
> As you will see, Stratford-upon-Avon is in the Midlands, not too far
> from Coventry and Birmingham.
>

Thanks. I had found the correct city (you guys and your -upon-Avon citynames
:-) ) and was trying to track down where each image was taken.
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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] The OpenStreetMap website is now translatable at Translatewiki

[Mikel Maron]

From: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 


> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
>  wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  
> > wrote:
> >> But which OSM components does this cover? I'm assuming this only covers the
> >> main OSM website (and the wiki indirectly since MediaWiki is already in
> >> TranslateWiki) but not Potlatch, and the other editors.
> >
> > It's only the website at the moment as Siebrand says. But it would be
> > very nice to add other OpenStreetMap applications, the most obvious
> > next step being Potlatch.
>
> It would also be a very interesting project to use Translatewiki to
> translate some subsets of the OpenStreetMap data itself.
> 
> For instance country or state names, capitals, or cities with >0.5
> million people, stuff like that.

TranslateWiki .. awesome stuff!


Agreed some kind of way to translate specific parts of the OSM database would 
have huge payoff.
There's a large open translation community online, we only need to give them 
familiar tools.

I'd reckon that we'd want our own custom tool for this. It would connect to the 
API, rather than SVN.
Maps could be embedded in the tool, to provide geographic context for 
translators.


Also, the Foundation has growing needs for translators for our communications. 
Wonder if TranslateWiki or something else
is a way to get that done.

-Mikel


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Re: [OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?

[Dave G]

Nick

It could be the problem, bash commands can be very fussy about
whitespaces/switches/comamnd order etc.  sometimes

dave



2009/9/24 Nick Whitelegg :
> Hello Dave,
>
> There is, though why would that make a difference?
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> Dave G <9gerk...@gmail.com>
> 22/09/2009 20:11
>
> To
> Nick Whitelegg 
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick
>
> the command looks right to me but there is an extra white-space
> between the "-t" and the "-i" ??
>
> dave
>
> 2009/9/22 Nick Whitelegg :
>> Hello Dave,
>>
>> I'm using the command quoted on the OSM wiki page on the subject, using
>> /dev/ttyUSB0. i.e something like
>>
>> gpsbabel -t  -i garmin -f /dev/ttyUSB0 -o gpx -F blah.gpx
>> Will look at your scripts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave G <9gerk...@gmail.com>
>> 22/09/2009 10:47
>>
>> To
>> Nick Whitelegg 
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>> Re: [OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> could be but mine is just a cheap and nasty one of the interweb as well
>>
>> what command are you using to download with GPSBabel?
>>
>> I use these scripts here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Gerkin
>>
>> maybe they will be of some use?
>>
>> cheers..dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/9/22 Nick Whitelegg :
 [snip mostly PL2303 recommendations]
>>>
>>> Thanks for the replies on this.
>>>
>>> My converter is a PL2303 based one, the kernel module detects it when
>> it's
>>> plugged in, but... I can't get data out of it using gpsbabel, it
> reports
>>> "Timeout - no data read" or similar.
>>>
>>> Maybe I just got a cheap-and-nasty converter, despite it having the
> most
>>> compatible chipset.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

[Matt Williams]

2009/9/17 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason :
> Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
> traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
> other side?
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13.277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18
>
> http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&directions=52.50880994711401,13.27127609253,52.49494458610386,13.267847299575806&travel=car&styleId=1

Here's a 'funny' example in the opposite direction. Compare

http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=39.583466&lng=-76.129246&zoom=13&directions=39.57989335828052,-76.15070343017578,39.603175259215426,-76.0719108581543&travel=car&styleId=1

with

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=N+Earlton+Rd+Ext&daddr=39.602249,-76.071911&hl=en&geocode=FVDyWwId_gh2-w%3B&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=13&sll=39.582936,-76.100922&sspn=0.093139,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=13

The Cloudmade/OSM route is about 28 times longer. I expect it's just a
simple missing connection but it make a big difference in the NY to
Washington DC route (1.3 times longer).

-- 
Matt Williams
http://milliams.com

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[malenki]

John McKerrell wrote:

>
>On 22 Sep 2009, at 17:44, malenki wrote:
>
>> | There was an error saving your changes
>>
>Odd, I'll take a look, can you paste the URL to the thumbnail to help  
>me identify it?

Impossible at the moment, OSV looks like this both in opera and firefox:
http://omploader.org/vMmVxeA

>> It would be nice to have p...@openstreetmap.org on gmane.
>I'm not actually sure what you mean by this, is it something I need
>to set up for the pho...@openstreetmap.org mailing list?

Gmane is a mail-2-nntp-gateway. Just ask there to do the service for
your mailing list. It is more comfortable than a ML on its own - tha
is, for quite some people. :)
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane

>> For moderating photos:
>> 1) It would be handy to be able to see the pictures in full
>> resolution since its a difference if a car with licence plate is
>> photographed with
>> a 320x240 cam of a mobile phone or with a 12MP SLR. The thumbnails
>> aren't much helpful there.
>Currently you see the image at max 1024 width/height, 

Yes, when I click "Mask", even if I don't know/am not sure if there has
to be something masked. Maybe it is an option to display one file after
another at 1024x? or to show thumbnails bigger as they are now.

>that's the biggest that is available, I recommend that you use a
>judgement call and mask out things if there's potential for them to be
>visible

Did so after I found out.

>> Are there kinds of pictures you would not like to see on your server?
>I suppose photos of the ground might be used as part of a 3D model
>but in general if it really does just look like a bit of gravel or  
>completely sky then it's probably not useful. I'd say we don't want  
>indoors photos, photos that are mainly inside a car or where the GPS  
>is taking up most of the picture 

sounds reasonable

>that said, we will need to allow photos of GPSes to be uploaded when
>we do server-side geotagging (i.e. uploading traces).

Why is that? (maybe just because of my sometimes insufficient
english..?)

malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

[Jeremy Adams]

> 2009/9/17 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason :
> > Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
> > traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
> > other side?
> >
> >
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%
> 9Fe&daddr=A115&geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAA&hl=en&mra=ls&sll
> =52.493736,13.266249&sspn=0.002567,0.009645&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.502622,13
> .277648&spn=0.001283,0.004823&z=18
> >
> >
> http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434&lng=13.272686&zoom=15&direction
> s=52.50880994711401,13.27127609253,52.49494458610386,13.26784729957
> 5806&travel=car&styleId=1
> 
> Here's a 'funny' example in the opposite direction. Compare
> 
> http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=39.583466&lng=-
> 76.129246&zoom=13&directions=39.57989335828052,-
> 76.15070343017578,39.603175259215426,-
> 76.0719108581543&travel=car&styleId=1
> 
> with
> 
> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=N+Earlton+Rd+Ext&dad
> dr=39.602249,-76.071911&hl=en&geocode=FVDyWwId_gh2-
> w%3B&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=13&sll=39.582936,-
> 76.100922&sspn=0.093139,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=13
> 
> The Cloudmade/OSM route is about 28 times longer. I expect it's just a
> simple missing connection but it make a big difference in the NY to
> Washington DC route (1.3 times longer).
> 
> --
> Matt Williams
> http://milliams.com

There's a large chunk of one lane of I-95 missing.  I traced it from yahoo 
imagery in Potlach.

Such is the power of OSM.  :)

-Jeremy



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Richard Bullock]

>
> [still not enough :)]
>
> For moderating: right now I moderated several photos until I cam onto a
> visible license plate. This I masked and added the tag licenceplate,
> left the masking area, clicked "mark as safe" and "save" - and then an
> error showed up:
> | There was an error saving your changes
>
> Now moderating is stuck at this one photo, I can't go on. Marking as
> unsafe and saving the change gives no reaction of any kind.
>
>
I've got the same issue.

I'm stuck on an image that I wanted to add a mask to, and it said the same 
thing "There was an error saving your changes". I can't load any more images 
to moderate whilst I've still got this one - and I can't seem to be able to 
do anything at all with this image.

Some way of being able to download more images to moderate (say, so that you 
have around 10) even if you've got one left would be good here.

A couple more bugs;

It took half an hour for my authentication e-mail to arrive. Someone else on 
IRC said the same. Some others report it being instant.

Also, I've mistakenly uploaded an image without geolocation in the exif (I 
haven't pushed it towards moderation yet). Any chance we could have the 
option to remove an image?

On Internet Explorer - the map fails to display on the main page. Also, when 
trying to mask-sections of a photo on IE, it appears that you are selecting 
something - but the mask is not blacked out - and no area is actually 
selected.

On Firefox, I can see the map with thumbnail images in some places. I can't 
see any way of seeing larger images. Is that functionality to be added, or 
is it a bug?

Richard 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

[Liz]

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Jeremy Adams wrote:
> > The Cloudmade/OSM route is about 28 times longer. I expect it's just a
> > simple missing connection but it make a big difference in the NY to
> > Washington DC route (1.3 times longer).
> >

>
> There's a large chunk of one lane of I-95 missing.  I traced it from yahoo
> imagery in Potlach.
>
> Such is the power of OSM.  :)

We've used oddities in routing programmes in the Au region to find those sort 
of problems - it has been a very useful exercise of testing the data

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Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[Liz]

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, Ed Avis wrote:
>  Perhaps
> we could install GPS devices on every tractor in the country
where I live tractors have GPS devices already
perhaps you just need to ask if they record where they have been?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[Jack Stringer]

Well if somone does map the fields please could they put the gates on there.
It would be nice to route people to the nearest gate. We do have the right
to roam but those of who live in the countryside have always had that option
we just used our common sense by not walking down the middle of crops.

I keep thinking there must be a way to get the field data from the farmers
if only it was to sit down and draw from a walking street map.

Jack Stringer

On Sep 23, 2009 2:39 PM, "Ed Avis"  wrote:

Someoneelse  mail.atownsend.org.uk> writes: >>In the UK,
certainly large-scale Ordnance ...
Hmm, perhaps then tracing it from out-of-copyright maps is not such a bad
idea...
Although most likely the one-inch maps currently emerging from copyright do
not
have the field boundaries.

>That doesn't mean >they don't have some other more accurate data in a
format not readily >reprod...
Hmm, where do you see field information on that?

>In areas where there's complete public access (Open Access Land)
Ah yes, Open Access...

lets you see these areas superimposed on OS maps, but I didn't see a
place to download the whole data set.  Has anyone asked?

As for adding field boundaries by doing ground surveys, I think this is
too impossibly enormous a task, even for enthusiastic OSM mappers.  Perhaps
we could install GPS devices on every tractor in the country and over a
couple
of years record ploughing patterns, which would let you deduce the shape of
arable fields...

--
Ed Avis 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[Aun Yngve Johnsen]

They record tracks so they can calculate the next leg on the field,  
the question is wether we can use the data for some reason or other.

brgds
Aun Johnsen



On 23/09/2009, at 17:53, Liz wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, Ed Avis wrote:
>> Perhaps
>> we could install GPS devices on every tractor in the country
> where I live tractors have GPS devices already
> perhaps you just need to ask if they record where they have been?
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2009/9/23 paul youlten :
> This looks interesting:
+1

> http://www.slideshare.net/jpmund/aerial-photo-ballon-technique-mapasia2006
>
> Does anyone know Jan-Peter Mund?

don't know him, but he's not difficult to find (1st hit in g00gle ;-)
http://www.staff.uni-mainz.de/mund/index.html

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[Someoneelse]

Ed Avis wrote:
> Someoneelse  mail.atownsend.org.uk> writes:
> 
>>
>> http://maps.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/
>> NottsCC.InteractiveMapping.Web.Internet/
>> ?e=461177&n=360114&mpp=160&layers=SEA.PLA.FP.BR.RB.BOAT
>> /&hLayer=&hField=&hValue=
>>
>> suggest that they might.
> 
> Hmm, where do you see field information on that?

I just zoomed in to a couple of areas that I knew and verified that the 
black lines (boundaries of one sort or another) matched where I recall 
the field boundaries to be.  I only found one that looked a bit iffy - 
most were surprisingly (to me, given my earlier comment) accurate.

> As for adding field boundaries by doing ground surveys, I think this is
> too impossibly enormous a task, even for enthusiastic OSM mappers.  Perhaps
> we could install GPS devices on every tractor in the country ...

... or every sheep?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[paul youlten]

I've sent Dr Mund and Mr Tean Peang Seng an email inviting them to
join the discussion.

:-)

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
 wrote:
> 2009/9/23 paul youlten :
>> This looks interesting:
> +1
>
>> http://www.slideshare.net/jpmund/aerial-photo-ballon-technique-mapasia2006
>>
>> Does anyone know Jan-Peter Mund?
>
> don't know him, but he's not difficult to find (1st hit in g00gle ;-)
> http://www.staff.uni-mainz.de/mund/index.html
>
> cheers,
> Martin
>



-- 
Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807

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Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2009/9/23 paul youlten :
> I've sent Dr Mund and Mr Tean Peang Seng an email inviting them to
> join the discussion.

sorry, the page I linkes seems outdated (2002 I guess from the
context). There is more sites about him here:
http://www.xing.com/profile/JanPeter_Mund
and here:
http://www.dlr.de/caf/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-2529/3787_read-17919/sortby-lastname/

cheers,
Martin

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[OSM-talk] trunk_link & ref=*

[Dave F.]

Hi

I've trunk_link  going form one trunk to another. They have different 
references.
Do I add a ref=*. If so which one? The one it's leaving or the one it's 
going to?

Cheers
Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Matt Williams wrote:
>
>>  Take a look at http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/,
>> http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/stats.php and
>> http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/map.html. These were some tools I
>> threw together to rate the photos on how vertical they were and show
>> the results on a map.
>>
>> As you will see, Stratford-upon-Avon is in the Midlands, not too far
>> from Coventry and Birmingham.
>>
>
> Thanks. I had found the correct city (you guys and your -upon-Avon
> citynames :-) ) and was trying to track down where each image was taken.
>

A few hours spent in Microsoft Research's map crunching app and I get this:
http://osm.mapki.com/cruncher/

I didn't let it render all the tiles (had to head home), and the interface
is the ugly Bing API, but you get the idea...
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Re: [OSM-talk] good news: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org

[Morten Kjeldgaard]

On 23/09/2009, at 13.46, Jason Cunningham wrote:

> To repeat, I am not saying the data must not be used, I am simply  
> raising an issue because I think there may be a problem. I don't  
> trust the British Government and OS. I would genuinely surprised  
> (and pleased) if JNCC had paid OS to remove copyright. I also look  
> forward to seeing Ramsar sites added.


Thank you for your reply! I am sorry if my initial message to this  
thread sounded overly harsh.

IANAL, but my perspective on the matter is this: By entering into the  
Ramsar convention, the contracting parties have made certain  
commitments, foremost of course an obligation to take care of the  
protected areas. In addition, the contracting parties have had to make  
certain deliverables, which for example is like is stated in [0],  
point vi):

"Supporting communications, education and public awareness. The  
publicly-accessible Web-based RSIS forms an important component of the  
Convention’s CEPA delivery by ensuring that full and up-to-date  
information on each designated Ramsar site is widely available, in  
order to secure wide public recognition of this key pillar of the  
implementation of the Convention by its Parties."

This suggests to me that the contracting parties cannot withhold  
something as basic as copyright, because that would be a violation of  
their commitments towards the treaty. Finally, it is my impression  
that you cannot hold a copyright on information, only the physical  
(i.e. paper or digital) representation of it. So the information  
contained in the polygonal shape of the affected areas would be free  
for the government to give away. Again, IANAL.

Cheers,
Morten



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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] The OpenStreetMap website is now translatable at Translatewiki

[Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
 wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
>> But which OSM components does this cover? I'm assuming this only covers the
>> main OSM website (and the wiki indirectly since MediaWiki is already in
>> TranslateWiki) but not Potlatch, and the other editors.
>
> It's only the website at the moment as Siebrand says. But it would be
> very nice to add other OpenStreetMap applications, the most obvious
> next step being Potlatch.
>
> To add Potlatch some internal changes need to be done in Potlatch
> itself. I've filed a bug detailing what these are:
>
>    http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2304

I've now fixed Potlatch up so that it can be Translated on
Translatewiki. Now it just needs to be imported into Translatewiki.

I've put up a notice on the OSM wiki so that confused Translators
won't use it in the interim:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=Template:Potlatch/Translation&diff=345246&oldid=302899

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[OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[courtland . yockey]

I've been thinking a bit about this from a very different perspective - that of 
parks and other open public areas where you might not have a chance to walk the 
perimeter ... for instance, you've a dog who really doesn't want that boring 
walk around the edge, but bobs and weaves all about the space and this might be 
one of only a couple of potential visits you might be able to make to the site. 
 I think that an accumulation of unordered points over time either by one 
person or multiple people who capture GPS information _incidentally_ would be 
useful in defining the core of the public (or private, in the case of tractors 
on farmland) space.  There's no need to gather tracks, merely points.  Let the 
accumulation of points define the space.  This is something of a corollary to 
the notion of "wisdom of the crowd" and it can be seen in action in the United 
States on major thoroughfares, such as the interstate highways, where the 
accumulation of multiple tracks over time can be used to define a way.

user id on openstreemap = ceyockey

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetView - documentation?

[courtland . yockey]

I've signed up at the OpenStreetView site, but it does not appear that there is 
significant documentation available, nor a method for discussion.  Could 
someone say something to this?  Perhaps this is coming in the future - it would 
be helpful to known this. --openstreetmap login = ceyockey

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[OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM (balloon-based aerial photography)

[courtland . yockey]

I briefly looked at the slide pack that was referenced in this thread ... this 
looks like a perfect high school science project (from a United States 
perspective).  It would be awesome if we could introduce this as an annual 
school science project with the aim to photograph one area that has undergone 
construction (to completion) in the past year.  I know a couple of people who 
engage in high school liaisons through corporate connections and this seems a 
perfect thing to propose through that line of communication.  Cheers.  -- 
openstreetmap login = ceyockey

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView - documentation?

[Jeremy Adams]

You'll find most of the documentation on the wiki at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org.

This mailing list you've posted to is the primary source of discussion.
There are other lists as well for more specific topics (newbies, legal, etc)
as well as for specific countries.

-Jeremy

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM,  wrote:

> I've signed up at the OpenStreetView site, but it does not appear that
> there is significant documentation available, nor a method for discussion.
>  Could someone say something to this?  Perhaps this is coming in the future
> - it would be helpful to known this. --openstreetmap login = ceyockey
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] trunk_link & ref=*

[Florian Lohoff]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:16:14PM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I've trunk_link  going form one trunk to another. They have different 
> references.
> Do I add a ref=*. If so which one? The one it's leaving or the one it's 
> going to?

Just a thought i had on this - Typically you'll have 2 trunk links,
each with a one way on them. My thought was to put "the other" ref
on it - So when you go from trunk ref=a to trunk ref=b via trunk_link 1 
you'll put ref=b on it - On the other trunk link you'll you from trunk b to
a you add ref=a to it.

The idea behind it is that the navigation software will tell you

"Keep right to trunk ref b"

Not - "Keep right and continue on ref a" and later
a "Join trunk ref b"

When leaving the trunk with a ref a (on a trunk_link) you are heading
towards a new trunk so you put the "new" ref on it ...

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org
"Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat
im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen."
- - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin 


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Re: [OSM-talk] trunk_link & ref=*

[Dave F.]

Florian Lohoff wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:16:14PM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
>   
>> Hi
>>
>> I've trunk_link  going form one trunk to another. They have different 
>> references.
>> Do I add a ref=*. If so which one? The one it's leaving or the one it's 
>> going to?
>> 
>
> Just a thought i had on this - Typically you'll have 2 trunk links,
> each with a one way on them. My thought was to put "the other" ref
> on it - So when you go from trunk ref=a to trunk ref=b via trunk_link 1 
> you'll put ref=b on it - On the other trunk link you'll you from trunk b to
> a you add ref=a to it.
>   
Thanks
So it's the one the vehicle is going to. Sounds good to me.

> The idea behind it is that the navigation software will tell you
>
> "Keep right to trunk ref b"
>
> Not - "Keep right and continue on ref a" and later
> a "Join trunk ref b"
>
> When leaving the trunk with a ref a (on a trunk_link) you are heading
> towards a new trunk so you put the "new" ref on it ...
>
> Flo
>   



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Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries

[Mike Harris]

Right to roam in England and Wales exists only on Open Access Land - which
is most unlikely to be cropped. Elsewhere our rights are only on public
highways (which include public rights of way) or by permission. Where a
public right of way crosses a crop it is likely to be a trespass too go
around the crop (off the right of way) but there is a legal right to walk
through the crop (and a legal duty on the tenant or landowner to reinstate
the right of way through the crop).
 
It would be great to get the field boundary data as in farmed rural areas
this is the most useful means of navigation (other than a GPS!), the
greatest use I make in the field of OS 1:25k mapping and - for me - the
greatest lacuna in OSM! Beyond actual surveying by bearings from points
where I have the right to be (which is always going to be a slow, laborious
and incomplete process) I cannot see a practical solution other than
open-source aerial/satellite photography.
 
OS one-inch (or 1:50k) mapping does not show field boundaries. But is anyone
working on out-of-copyright 1:25k (or larger scale) mapping?
 
Mike Harris
 


  _  

From: Jack Stringer [mailto:jack.ix...@googlemail.com] 
Sent: 23 September 2009 22:07
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries



Well if somone does map the fields please could they put the gates on there.
It would be nice to route people to the nearest gate. We do have the right
to roam but those of who live in the countryside have always had that option
we just used our common sense by not walking down the middle of crops.

I keep thinking there must be a way to get the field data from the farmers
if only it was to sit down and draw from a walking street map.


Jack Stringer




On Sep 23, 2009 2:39 PM, "Ed Avis"  wrote:



Someoneelse  mail.atownsend.org.uk> writes: >>In the UK,
certainly large-scale Ordnance ...

Hmm, perhaps then tracing it from out-of-copyright maps is not such a bad
idea...
Although most likely the one-inch maps currently emerging from copyright do
not
have the field boundaries.


>That doesn't mean >they don't have some other more accurate data in a
format not readily >reprod...

Hmm, where do you see field information on that?


>In areas where there's complete public access (Open Access Land) 

Ah yes, Open Access...

lets you see these areas superimposed on OS maps, but I didn't see a
place to download the whole data set.  Has anyone asked?

As for adding field boundaries by doing ground surveys, I think this is
too impossibly enormous a task, even for enthusiastic OSM mappers.  Perhaps
we could install GPS devices on every tractor in the country and over a
couple
of years record ploughing patterns, which would let you deduce the shape of
arable fields...

--
Ed Avis 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?

[Anthony]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> 2009/9/22 Anthony :
> > It is possible to represent different surfaces and different maxspeeds
> > without using more than one way.  "maxspeed:lane=130;110";
> > "surface:lane=asphalt;concrete".  That's not necessarily the best
> solution,
>
> indeed, it won't be understood by none of the apps that are using our
> data and it doesn't say, which lane has which value...
>

There would obviously need to be a standard, formed through a proposal,
first.  :)

Left to right when the way is pointing up?

> Different turn-restrictions is already possible.  If you have a three lane
> > way with two lanes going straight and one turning right, you join three
> ways
> > at one node: one with three lanes, one with two lanes, one with one lane.
> > If you have a three lane road with two lanes going straight and one lane
> > going straight or turning right, ditto, except the way going straight has
> > three lanes instead of two.  Which lane is which is determined by the
> > geometry of the ways as they come out of the node.
>
> but that's exactly what I propose (map lanes explicitly) and it's
> against the separate-ways-only-when-physically-divided-paradigm
> (because an ambulance could change from one way to another)...
>

If you're going to go with
the separate-ways-only-when-physically-divided-paradigm, aren't you better
off using boundary relations rather than ways?

I meant the lanes for acceleration and breaking (when going on or from
> a highway). Usually there will be ~100mtres for this where you can
> change at any time, but in OSM you have to decide on one merging
> point.


True...  Perhaps it's a mistake to try to combine the physical and the
logical into one in the first place.

How about using ways to represent the suggested paths of travel, and
boundary relations to represent the physical road structure?

If you want to represent the physical road structure, mapping all the lanes
doesn't even cut it. When two lanes merge or diverge, they don't leave nice
little "lanes" of paved roadway in between them, they leave sections of
roadways that would be better described with polygons or boundary relations
rather than lanes.
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