Re: [Talk-at] landuse: line oder multipolygon?

[andreas wecer]

Am Di., 28. Juli 2020 um 22:12 Uhr schrieb Stephan Bösch-Plepelits <
sk...@xover.mud.at>:

> Ganz einfach: Tools -> Create Multipolygon (Ctrl-B)
>

Die inverse Funktion gibt es über das JOSM-Plugin  Relation Toolbox ->
"Polygon rekonstruieren"
Aber wie gesagt: bitte nicht einfach nur dafür verwenden, um überall in
"fremden" Gebieten alles von einer Variante auf die andere zu ändern.

Andere sinnvolle Funktionen für den Bereich gibt es im Plugin utilsplugin2,
wie bspw. Split Area:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/utilsplugin2
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Import of Orange County, California Buildings and Addresses

[Clifford Snow]

Tod,
You might want to look into Paul Norman's ogr2osm.py [1] python tool which
can translate shapefiles into .osm files that can be uploaded using JOSM.
It's simple to use, just need to create a translation file for shapefile
fields to OSM tag.

I'm in the process of doing an import of building and addresses for
Marysville, WA. Way smaller than you import. The import page is
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marysville_Import which has links to my
code including the ogr2osm.py translation scripts.

Feel free to contact me offline if you have any questions.

Best,
Clifford

[1] https://github.com/pnorman/ogr2osm

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 3:06 PM Tod Fitch  wrote:

> I'm planning an import of buildings and addresses for Orange County,
> California. Information on the proposed import can be found on the wiki at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Orange_County_Building_and_Address_Import
>
> This is a one time import using JOSM.
>
> A links to the data being imported given on the wiki and the data is
> marked as public domain.
>
> Note: There is an effort by ERSI to make this same dataset available to
> mappers working with the RapiD data via MapWithAI. For a description of
> that, see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Orange_County,_California_Buildings
>
> This is my first attempt at an import so gentle guidance on following best
> procedures will be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Tod
>
> ___
> Imports mailing list
> impo...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
>


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[Talk-us] Import of Orange County, California Buildings and Addresses

[Tod Fitch]

I'm planning an import of buildings and addresses for Orange County, 
California. Information on the proposed import can be found on the wiki at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Orange_County_Building_and_Address_Import

This is a one time import using JOSM.

A links to the data being imported given on the wiki and the data is marked as 
public domain.

Note: There is an effort by ERSI to make this same dataset available to mappers 
working with the RapiD data via MapWithAI. For a description of that, see 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Orange_County,_California_Buildings

This is my first attempt at an import so gentle guidance on following best 
procedures will be appreciated.

Regards,
Tod



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Re: [Talk-at] AGIT 2020 Virtuell - Vorträge

[Friedrich Volkmann]

On 28.07.20 13:17, Markus Mayr wrote:
Für kurze Zeit sind die virtuellen AGIT Vorträge, und somit auch die 
Vorträge des OSGeo Days abrufbar.


  * Teil #1 (OpenSource Geo Dienste):
https://echo360.org.uk/lesson/6648a0f4-a0c4-4273-b2d0-09c5733119e6/classroom
  * Teil #2 (Open Source Desktop GIS/ QGIS):
https://echo360.org.uk/lesson/15f34991-3d53-4c3f-b318-26b163d9a7e9/classroom
  * Teil #3 (Open Source Geodatenmanagement):
https://echo360.org.uk/lesson/cd5f320c-93de-4ef5-80f3-0a1aa78edab1/classroom


Da muss man sich einloggen!?

--
Friedrich K. Volkmann   http://www.volki.at/
Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria

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[Talk-at] Haben Kirchen eine Hausnummer?

[Robert Grübler]

Mir ist das bei der Fuchs-Kirche in Thal aufgefallen: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/131989836 

Die Adresse „Am Kirchberg 1“ ist identisch zum alten Pfarrhof. Wurde sie
vielleicht von dort übertragen?
Wegen der Erweiterung der Volksschule wurde der alte Pfarrhof verkauft und
an andere Stelle neu errichtet. Die Adresse ist nun „Am Kirchberg 3“.

Was folgt daraus für die Kirche?

LG Robert


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Re: [Talk-de] Tool für Polygon statt BoundingBox

[Hauke Stieler]

Hi,

> Damit kann ich prima ein Polygon zeichnen, aber finde dessen Koordinaten
> nicht und auch keinen Button oder so zum Export der Koordinaten...

Das ist auch etwas versteckt, ich musste auch erst suchen. Im Wiki gibts
glücklicherweise eine Anleitung zum Download eines Layers (allerdings
ausschließlich GeoJSON):

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UMap/Guide/Export_data_of_a_layer

> Ja, das geht - aber nicht komfortabel (JOSM laden, OSM-Hintergrund, aus
> der DB einen Mini-Ausschnitt ohne Daten laden, Polygon zeichnen, Polygon
> speichern (OSM oder GPX), Datei in Texteditor öffnen, Überflüssiges
> entfernen, Rest in Mail kopieren...)

Einen Bereich ohne Daten musst du nicht extra laden, man kann auch
einfach so einen neuen, leeren Layer anlegen (Datei -> "Neue Ebene" oder
einfach "STRG+N"). Aber ja, es sind mehr Klicks, die man da machen muss.

Bei beiden Lösungen kriegst du keine rohe Liste an Koordinaten, sondern
immer ein GPX, GeoJson, OSM, ... Format. Reine Koordinaten Listen sind
mir bisher auch noch nicht begegnet (kenne daher leider kein Tool, was
ein solches Format ausspuckt).

Grüße
Hauke



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Re: [Talk-at] landuse: line oder multipolygon?

[Stephan Bösch-Plepelits]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 03:05:25PM +0200, Patrick Strasser-Mikhail wrote:

Friedrichs ausführlicher Antwort hab ich nichts hinzuzufügen, ich finde das
sehr gut erklärt.

> In JOSM [...] hab ich das "mach mehrere geschlossene Linie zu
> Multipolygonen" noch nicht gefunden...
Ganz einfach: Tools -> Create Multipolygon (Ctrl-B)

grüße,
Stephan
-- 
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| Projects:|
| > OpenStreetMap: openstreetbrowser.org > openstreetmap.at|
| > Urbanism: Radlobby Wien > Platz für Wien   |
| Contact: |
| > Mail: sk...@xover.mud.at > Blog: plepe.at > Code: github.com/plepe |
| > Twitter: twitter.com/plepe > Jabber: sk...@jabber.at   |
| > Mastodon: @pl...@en.osm.town   |
`--'

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Re: [Talk-de] Tool für Polygon statt BoundingBox

[Markus]

Wow Hauke - superschnell, danke :-)

> uMap [0]

Damit kann ich prima ein Polygon zeichnen, aber finde dessen Koordinaten
nicht und auch keinen Button oder so zum Export der Koordinaten...

> JOSM ;)

Ja, das geht - aber nicht komfortabel (JOSM laden, OSM-Hintergrund, aus
der DB einen Mini-Ausschnitt ohne Daten laden, Polygon zeichnen, Polygon
speichern (OSM oder GPX), Datei in Texteditor öffnen, Überflüssiges
entfernen, Rest in Mail kopieren...)

Das ist mit Norberts Tool so schön einfach :-)
(aber halt nur mit BBox...)

Gruss, Markus


> On 28.07.20 21:00, Markus wrote:
>> Dieses schöne Tool von Norbert kann die Geo-Koordinaten einer
>> BoundingBox ausgeben: http://norbertrenner.de/osm/bbox.html
>>
>> Ich suche etwas Gleiches für Polygone:
>> - Basiskarte OSM
>> . mit Maus ein Polygon zeichenen
>> - Polygon anpassen (Knoten verschieben, löschen, einfügen)
>> - Koordinatenliste exportieren (und Beispiel als Permalink)
>>
>> Wer kennt sowas?
>>
>> Gruss, Markus

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[Talk-us] National Forest refs/names

[Paul Johnson]

In  https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/59418875, seems we've hit on
some inconsistency in the documentation.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging#Tagging_Forest_Roads
suggests
that the ref should go in the name for national forest roads, when this is
directly contradicted by the common use of name, which is that the name is
only the name, as outlined at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only

Also specifically about that road in that changeset, name=Dufur Valley Road
got moved to alt_name, though I can confirm firsthand that the addresses
along it are Dufur Valley Road and it's signed as such at least at the east
end.

Could we get the US Road Tagging page updated to reflect common name
practice instead of encouraging the duplication of the ref in the name?  Or
is that going to spark drama?
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Re: [Talk-de] Tool für Polygon statt BoundingBox

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 28. Jul 2020, at 21:02, Markus  wrote:
> 
> - Basiskarte OSM
> . mit Maus ein Polygon zeichenen
> - Polygon anpassen (Knoten verschieben, löschen, einfügen)
> - Koordinatenliste exportieren (und Beispiel als Permalink)


https://geojson.io macht was in der Art

Gruß Martin 
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Re: [Talk-de] Tool für Polygon statt BoundingBox

[Hauke Stieler]

Hi,

muss es eine Webanwendung sein? Dann schlage ich uMap [0] vor, ansonsten
JOSM ;)

Grüße
Hauke

[0] https://umap.openstreetmap.de

On 28.07.20 21:00, Markus wrote:
> Dieses schöne Tool von Norbert kann die Geo-Koordinaten einer
> BoundingBox ausgeben: http://norbertrenner.de/osm/bbox.html
> 
> Ich suche etwas Gleiches für Polygone:
> - Basiskarte OSM
> . mit Maus ein Polygon zeichenen
> - Polygon anpassen (Knoten verschieben, löschen, einfügen)
> - Koordinatenliste exportieren (und Beispiel als Permalink)
> 
> Wer kennt sowas?
> 
> Gruss, Markus
> 
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[Talk-de] Tool für Polygon statt BoundingBox

[Markus]

Dieses schöne Tool von Norbert kann die Geo-Koordinaten einer
BoundingBox ausgeben: http://norbertrenner.de/osm/bbox.html

Ich suche etwas Gleiches für Polygone:
- Basiskarte OSM
. mit Maus ein Polygon zeichenen
- Polygon anpassen (Knoten verschieben, löschen, einfügen)
- Koordinatenliste exportieren (und Beispiel als Permalink)

Wer kennt sowas?

Gruss, Markus

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[Talk-us] Orange County, California Building and Address Import

[Tod Fitch]

I became aware that Orange County, California has released building outline and 
address data to public domain [1] and started prep work for import to OSM. In 
reading through the import guidelines [2] it seemed the process was:

1. Create a workflow (but don’t do any actual importing at this stage).
2. Document the workflow in both a dedicated wiki page and in the import 
catalog [3]
3. Announce to the tagging list and the list for the area, in this case 
talk-us, the proposed import.
4. Once comments on the proposed import have been addressed, commence the 
import (documenting progress along the way).

To that end, I have reviewed the data. Processed sample portions to the point 
just short of uploading to OSM to verify I think the workflow is okay.

This is where I am at present:

1. I’ve reviewed the data and decided that a rather slow manual process is 
needed because of the low quality of the building outlines.
2. I’ve created a workflow and tested to the point where I think it will result 
in a good quality import.
3. I’ve created a GitHub project containing the description and scripts I am 
using [4].
4. I started to create a wiki page containing the same description but found an 
existing import page for the same data [5]

At this point I am paused and looking for guidance as there is another import 
proposed for this data. I don’t see evidence that this other import has 
actually started.

I have added a discussion item to that import page expressing my concern about 
building footprint quality and the steps that will be needed to bring it up to 
standard and given my GitHub project page link.

But I am confused.

I thought that imports needed to be added to the catalog. This import is not in 
the table at present.

I thought that import specific user IDs were required. This import pages states 
“The plan is for most OSM mappers to use their standard OSM accounts if they 
are editing with RapiD and JOSM editors. . .”

I thought that imports needed to be announced in this import list. Looking 
though the archives [6] for the last few months, I don’t see it.

So, do I continue with my import plan with the next step being creating a new 
wiki page for it? Or do I wait for ERSI to do an import then verify the 
quality? I don’t see a way to participate with ERSI listed in the import wiki 
page they’ve created.

Thanks for the guidance!

Tod Fitch

[1] 
https://data-ocpw.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/8db4b58e6bbf4f6cac676f477348be48_0
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue
[4] https://github.com/n76/OSM_OC_Buildings
[5] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Orange_County,_California_Buildings
[6] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/



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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Manuel]

Io sono d'accordo per MapRoulette (così che sia anche fattibile per anche 
utenti non-italici e reiterabile in futuro), ma nel caso c'è anche questo task 
manager: https://stm.hauke-stieler.de/ (segnalato da Cascafico nel gruppo 
Telegram).
Manuel
Il 28/07/2020 19:54, Nap Osm ha scritto:

Ciao Marcello,
Grazie mille per l'ottimo lavoro svolto e per aver portato di nuovo la 
discussione!
Anche secondo me sarebbe utile aggiungere il tag name:it.
Secondo me, come ha detto Ivo potremmo organizzarci tramite taskmanager, 
ricordo che Wikimedia ne aveva uno, non so bene come funzioni però.
Mi piacerebbe se si potesse espandere la cosa anche per i monumenti o per altri 
luoghi famosi con un nome in italiano, magari organizzando un evento con 
hashtag o utilizzando tipo MapRoulette (anche se è un po' più complicata la 
cosa in quel caso).
Sarebbe possibile utilizzare Wikidata per scoprire tutti i luoghi con tag 
Wikidata senza name:it che però hanno una traduzione in italiano su Wikidata?

Tra l'altro segnalo tra i luoghi senza traduzione qualche isola inglese (quelle 
che finisco per Island).
--
*From:* Marcello 
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2020 2:10 PM
*To:* talk-it@openstreetmap.org 
*Subject:* Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero
Il 23/07/20 13:14, Marcello ha scritto:

Il 23/07/20 10:30, Nap Osm ha scritto:

Buongiorno a tutta la lista!
Questa settimana mi è capitato di vedere un documentario della Rai della 
Seconda Guerra Mondiale in cui venivano nominati molti luoghi famosi come città 
e monumenti, in italiano.
Qualche giorno fa, per perdere un po' di tempo, ho deciso di andare a vedere se 
fossero tutti presenti in OpenStreetMap (anche per vedere in che parte del 
mondo si trovano/trovavano). Mi sono accorto che molti di questi è possibile 
cercarli soltanto in inglese, perché appunto manca il tag name:it.
Non solo con i monumenti, anche molte stazioni avevano soltanto il nome in 
altre lingue.
Se secondo voi è importante tradurre in italiano quanti più luoghi possibile o 
il tag Wikidata porta con sè già tutte le informazioni necessarie? Perché credo 
che alcune app sfruttino Wikidata (OsmAnd?) mentre Nominatim sembra di no (a 
quanto pare).
Si potrebbe creare/sarebbe necessario un "evento" (non mi viene un termine più 
preciso ) per promuovere la traduzione di questi luoghi? Magari anche luoghi italiani in 
inglese (se non sono già tutti tradotti).
Naturalmente penso che il problema principale sia trovare nomi "ufficiali", non 
so se è possibile utilizzare quelli di Wikidata, per questo ho deciso di scrivere qui, in 
modo che si possa aprire una discussione a riguardo.
Cosa ne pensate?


Sono assolutamente d'accordo. Qualche anno fa mi resi conto che anche qualche 
capitale delle nazioni dell'ex Jugoslavia non aveva il tag name:it. Partii da 
lì e controllai l'Europa del sud e il Medio Oriente fino ai paesi arabi, lo 
misi dove mancava, non conoscendo quelle lingue ho controllato la 
corrispondenza della grafia con la corrispondente pagina Wikipedia, dopo 
qualche ora mi sono cominciati ad arrivare messaggi in lingua araba (spero solo 
per collaborazione alla wikipedia locale) e ho desistito, anche perché avevo 
iniziato casualmente e impiegavo abbastanza tempo per ogni città.

Non so se il tag wikidata, dove presente, può sopperire alla mancanza di 
name:it, ma secondo me dovremmo partire con lo stabilire per quali luoghi 
vorremmo che ci sia il name:it (es. nazioni, capitali, città pù importati, 
luoghi geografici rilevanti), poi fare una query per estrarre dove manca, così 
sicuramente si velocizza il lavoro di completamento. Mi sembra un'operazione 
assolutamente da considerare, soprattutto per i paesi che usano alfabeti non 
latini basta spostarsi di poco per non avere più riferimenti.

--
Ciao
Marcello


Ho fatto un controllo sugli stati e le capitali che non hanno il tag name:it, 
gli stati sono 28, per lo più piccole isole, più i Territori Palestinesi, per i 
quali c'è boundary=disputed invece 

Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Nap Osm]

Ciao Marcello,
Grazie mille per l'ottimo lavoro svolto e per aver portato di nuovo la 
discussione!
Anche secondo me sarebbe utile aggiungere il tag name:it.
Secondo me, come ha detto Ivo potremmo organizzarci tramite taskmanager, 
ricordo che Wikimedia ne aveva uno, non so bene come funzioni però.
Mi piacerebbe se si potesse espandere la cosa anche per i monumenti o per altri 
luoghi famosi con un nome in italiano, magari organizzando un evento con 
hashtag o utilizzando tipo MapRoulette (anche se è un po' più complicata la 
cosa in quel caso).
Sarebbe possibile utilizzare Wikidata per scoprire tutti i luoghi con tag 
Wikidata senza name:it che però hanno una traduzione in italiano su Wikidata?

Tra l'altro segnalo tra i luoghi senza traduzione qualche isola inglese (quelle 
che finisco per Island).

From: Marcello 
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 2:10 PM
To: talk-it@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

Il 23/07/20 13:14, Marcello ha scritto:
Il 23/07/20 10:30, Nap Osm ha scritto:
Buongiorno a tutta la lista!
Questa settimana mi è capitato di vedere un documentario della Rai della 
Seconda Guerra Mondiale in cui venivano nominati molti luoghi famosi come città 
e monumenti, in italiano.
Qualche giorno fa, per perdere un po' di tempo, ho deciso di andare a vedere se 
fossero tutti presenti in OpenStreetMap (anche per vedere in che parte del 
mondo si trovano/trovavano). Mi sono accorto che molti di questi è possibile 
cercarli soltanto in inglese, perché appunto manca il tag name:it.
Non solo con i monumenti, anche molte stazioni avevano soltanto il nome in 
altre lingue.
Se secondo voi è importante tradurre in italiano quanti più luoghi possibile o 
il tag Wikidata porta con sè già tutte le informazioni necessarie? Perché credo 
che alcune app sfruttino Wikidata (OsmAnd?) mentre Nominatim sembra di no (a 
quanto pare).
Si potrebbe creare/sarebbe necessario un "evento" (non mi viene un termine più 
preciso ) per promuovere la traduzione di questi luoghi? Magari anche luoghi 
italiani in inglese (se non sono già tutti tradotti).
Naturalmente penso che il problema principale sia trovare nomi "ufficiali", non 
so se è possibile utilizzare quelli di Wikidata, per questo ho deciso di 
scrivere qui, in modo che si possa aprire una discussione a riguardo.
Cosa ne pensate?

Sono assolutamente d'accordo. Qualche anno fa mi resi conto che anche qualche 
capitale delle nazioni dell'ex Jugoslavia non aveva il tag name:it. Partii da 
lì e controllai l'Europa del sud e il Medio Oriente fino ai paesi arabi, lo 
misi dove mancava, non conoscendo quelle lingue ho controllato la 
corrispondenza della grafia con la corrispondente pagina Wikipedia, dopo 
qualche ora mi sono cominciati ad arrivare messaggi in lingua araba (spero solo 
per collaborazione alla wikipedia locale) e ho desistito, anche perché avevo 
iniziato casualmente e impiegavo abbastanza tempo per ogni città.

Non so se il tag wikidata, dove presente, può sopperire alla mancanza di 
name:it, ma secondo me dovremmo partire con lo stabilire per quali luoghi 
vorremmo che ci sia il name:it (es. nazioni, capitali, città pù importati, 
luoghi geografici rilevanti), poi fare una query per estrarre dove manca, così 
sicuramente si velocizza il lavoro di completamento. Mi sembra un'operazione 
assolutamente da considerare, soprattutto per i paesi che usano alfabeti non 
latini basta spostarsi di poco per non avere più riferimenti.

--

Ciao
Marcello



Ho fatto un controllo sugli stati e le capitali che non hanno il tag name:it, 
gli stati sono 28, per lo più piccole isole, più i Territori Palestinesi, per i 
quali c'è boundary=disputed invece di administrative. Manca anche per la 
Repubblica di San Marino, va bene che è la lingua ufficiale, ma ad esempio per 
l'italia c'è anche il tag name:it.

Pensate che se aggiungo il tag dove manca usando come fonte wikidata c'è 
qualche problema con la licenza?


Per le capitali la situazione è molto peggiore, su 219 stati ben 127 capitali 
non hanno il tag name:it, per molte il nome in italiano corrisponde al tag 
name, ma in qualche caso, ad esempio Santiago del Cile, oppure tutte le 
capitali dei paesi con alfabeto non latino (Amman, Bangkok, Beirut, ecc.) penso 
che sia molto importante aggiungere il tag name:it. Anche dove il è 
corrispondente al name se non c'è name:it non si può sapere se corrisponde, 
quindi meglio averlo su tutte. Ho preparato la mappa di queste città su umap, 
http://u.osmfr.org/m/483286/, qual'è secondo voi il metodo più agevole per 
aggiungere il tag, magari lavorando in più persone per fare prima?

--
Ciao
Marcello


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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Ivo Reano]

Il giorno mar 28 lug 2020 alle ore 16:11 Marcello  ha
scritto:

> ...
>
Ho preparato la mappa di queste città su umap, http://u.osmfr.org/m/483286/,
> qual'è secondo voi il metodo più agevole per aggiungere il tag, magari
> lavorando in più persone per fare prima?
>
> --
> Ciao
> Marcello
>
> Usare il novello "SimpleTaskManager"?
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Carte d'intensité

[Éric Gillet]

Le 26/07/2020 à 21:04, André Laurenti a écrit :
La carte de la répartition des intensités du séisme du 23 février 1887 
sur la Riviera italienne et française avance. J'ai terminé le 
département des Alpes-Maritimes à partir de mes archives.


http://u.osmfr.org/m/469058/

Questions : peut-on améliorer la légende en faisant apparaître les 
différents points de couleur ? (exemple, intensité VI avec un point 
jaune)


On peut intégrer des images de la manière suivante dans la légende des 
calques (expliqué par le point d’interrogation dans l'interface 
d'édition de la description du calque) :


 * Image : {{http://image.url.com}}
 * Image avec largeur (en pixels) : {{http://image.url.com|largeur}}

Mais ça implique d'héberger quelque part une petite image par couleur 
qu'on veut mettre dans la légende. Je n'ai pas l'impression qu'on puisse 
utiliser du style CSS directement.



J'ai remarqué aussi qu'au bout d'un certain temps la carte n'est plus 
accessible pour compléter les informations que faut-il faire exactement ?


Ne serais-tu pas juste déconnecté d'uMap ? C'est visible en haut de la 
page d’accueil (bouton connexion ou déconnexion en fonction) : 
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/


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[Talk-africa] Voting is under way for a new tag: natural=bare_soil

[Michael Montani]

Dear all,

this one is to let you know we are working on the proposal of a feature on 
landcover mapping in OSM: 
natural=bare_soil.
 The feature is already in voting phase 
here.

Discussions about this feature have been held in the tagging mailing list 
here 
and 
here, 
as well as in the talk page of the feature 
proposal.

We think this feature could be useful to map many arid areas in Africa, so we 
thought it would be nice to share with you. Feel free to put suggestions in the 
talk page and vote!

Thanks,

--
Michael Montani
GIS Consultant, Client Solutions Delivery Section
Service for Geospatial Information and Telecommunications Technologies
United Nations Global Service Centre
United Nations Department of Operational Support

Brindisi | Phone: +39 0831 056985 | Mobile: +39 3297193455 | Intermission: 158 
6985
E-mail: michael.mont...@un.org | 
www.ungsc.org
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Re: [OSM-talk] Status of Who Did It?

[Snusmumriken]

On Tue, 2020-07-28 at 00:06 +1000, nwastra wrote:
> I have been using  Latest OSM Edits per Tile by Pascal Neis for my
> local area while whodidit is down 
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-change-tiles
> 
> On 27 Jul 2020, at 11:28 pm, Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> 
> > See
> > https://github.com/simon04/whodidit
> > linked on top of the page,
> > https://github.com/simon04/whodidit/issues/47
> > indicates that problem was reported to the author
> > 
> > 27 Jul 2020, 14:57 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com:
> > > Hello
> > > 
> > > I wondering what is the current state of the Who Did It service?
> > > I've
> > > been using this service 
> > > https://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/
> > > for some time and it's been quite helpful. But now I only get "No
> > > input file specified." when I try to get an RSS link.

Thanks for all the responses.


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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Marcello]

Il 23/07/20 13:14, Marcello ha scritto:

Il 23/07/20 10:30, Nap Osm ha scritto:

Buongiorno a tutta la lista!
Questa settimana mi è capitato di vedere un documentario della Rai 
della Seconda Guerra Mondiale in cui venivano nominati molti luoghi 
famosi come città e monumenti, in italiano.
Qualche giorno fa, per perdere un po' di tempo, ho deciso di andare a 
vedere se fossero tutti presenti in OpenStreetMap (anche per vedere 
in che parte del mondo si trovano/trovavano). Mi sono accorto che 
molti di questi è possibile cercarli soltanto in inglese, perché 
appunto manca il tag name:it.
Non solo con i monumenti, anche molte stazioni avevano soltanto il 
nome in altre lingue.
Se secondo voi è importante tradurre in italiano quanti più luoghi 
possibile o il tag Wikidata porta con sè già tutte le informazioni 
necessarie? Perché credo che alcune app sfruttino Wikidata (OsmAnd?) 
mentre Nominatim sembra di no (a quanto pare).
Si potrebbe creare/sarebbe necessario un "evento" (non mi viene un 
termine più preciso ) per promuovere la traduzione di questi 
luoghi? Magari anche luoghi italiani in inglese (se non sono già 
tutti tradotti).
Naturalmente penso che il problema principale sia trovare nomi 
"ufficiali", non so se è possibile utilizzare quelli di Wikidata, per 
questo ho deciso di scrivere qui, in modo che si possa aprire una 
discussione a riguardo.

Cosa ne pensate?


Sono assolutamente d'accordo. Qualche anno fa mi resi conto che anche 
qualche capitale delle nazioni dell'ex Jugoslavia non aveva il tag 
name:it. Partii da lì e controllai l'Europa del sud e il Medio Oriente 
fino ai paesi arabi, lo misi dove mancava, non conoscendo quelle 
lingue ho controllato la corrispondenza della grafia con la 
corrispondente pagina Wikipedia, dopo qualche ora mi sono cominciati 
ad arrivare messaggi in lingua araba (spero solo per collaborazione 
alla wikipedia locale) e ho desistito, anche perché avevo iniziato 
casualmente e impiegavo abbastanza tempo per ogni città.


Non so se il tag wikidata, dove presente, può sopperire alla mancanza 
di name:it, ma secondo me dovremmo partire con lo stabilire per quali 
luoghi vorremmo che ci sia il name:it (es. nazioni, capitali, città pù 
importati, luoghi geografici rilevanti), poi fare una query per 
estrarre dove manca, così sicuramente si velocizza il lavoro di 
completamento. Mi sembra un'operazione assolutamente da considerare, 
soprattutto per i paesi che usano alfabeti non latini basta spostarsi 
di poco per non avere più riferimenti.


--
Ciao
Marcello

Ho fatto un controllo sugli stati e le capitali che non hanno il tag 
name:it, gli stati sono 28, per lo più piccole isole, più i Territori 
Palestinesi, per i quali c'è boundary=disputed invece di administrative. 
Manca anche per la Repubblica di San Marino, va bene che è la lingua 
ufficiale, ma ad esempio per l'italia c'è anche il tag name:it.


Pensate che se aggiungo il tag dove manca usando come fonte wikidata c'è 
qualche problema con la licenza?



Per le capitali la situazione è molto peggiore, su 219 stati ben 127 
capitali non hanno il tag name:it, per molte il nome in italiano 
corrisponde al tag name, ma in qualche caso, ad esempio Santiago del 
Cile, oppure tutte le capitali dei paesi con alfabeto non latino (Amman, 
Bangkok, Beirut, ecc.) penso che sia molto importante aggiungere il tag 
name:it. Anche dove il è corrispondente al name se non c'è name:it non 
si può sapere se corrisponde, quindi meglio averlo su tutte. Ho 
preparato la mappa di queste città su umap, 
http://u.osmfr.org/m/483286/, qual'è secondo voi il metodo più agevole 
per aggiungere il tag, magari lavorando in più persone per fare prima?


--
Ciao
Marcello

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[Talk-GB] Fwd: Re: Admin Boundaries and Combined Authorities

[Colin Smale]

I think I replied privately by mistake, so copying to the list now...

On 2020-07-28 11:45, Ed Loach wrote:

> Colin wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for your message. I would like to challenge one point - your 
>> assertion that the Regions 
>> at admin_level=5 are in "widespread popular use". It is true that many 
>> people talk about 
>> geographical regions like "the South-East" or "the North-West". But these 
>> are ill-defined 
>> vernacular phrases and do not refer to the sharply-defined regions that are 
>> only occasionally 
>> used in governmental areas. If you asked people "is Essex in the South-East" 
>> I expect 99% would 
>> say "yes"
> 
> I must be in that 1% being an Essex resident who lives in the East of England 
> (and gets "Look East" as the local news).

No offence intended of course! It sounds like you are towards the north
of Essex then. But yes, you are right, my use of "99%" was hyperbole to
make a point. Boundaries of TV regions, both BBC and ITV, can also often
appear a bit random to the naked eye and depend to no small degree on
the locations and coverage of transmitters, meaning that my part of Kent
can basically only get London programs unless you have a high-gain
aerial on a pole to get the Kent programs from Bluebell Hill. 

> Admin level 5 is the NUTS 1 regions which as far as I know we are still using 
> to keep statistics from one year to the next even though we have now left the 
> EU. As such it is a meaningful admin level as much as say UPRNs on 
> properties, or references on A roads, or fhrs ids. 
> 
> There is some argument I suppose for changing from boundary=administrative 
> admin_level=5 to boundary=statistical and something to indicate NUTS 1 though 
> (type will have already been used for type=boundary).

That sounds like a good plan to me.___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Admin Boundaries and Combined Authorities

[Colin Smale]

On 2020-07-28 14:41, Dan Glover wrote:

> Other observations, if I may?
> 
> Levels 4 and 6 give UK-wide coverage and level has complete coverage of 
> England. The Combined Authorities are relatively sparse in their coverage (by 
> area - by population is a different matter) so there would be significant 
> gaps in Level 5 under this proposal. Unused Level 7 would "work" in the case 
> of the Greater London Authority - which otherwise doesn't seem to exist 
> except at Level 5 - it has always been a special case. I've not looked at the 
> detailed composition of the Combined Authorities but the problem seems to be 
> they're groupings of entities currently in Levels 6 and 8 (and might straddle 
> boundaries in the current Level 5?) so the hierarchical aspect perhaps cannot 
> be preserved.

I don't believe they currently straddle Region boundaries, but that may
be more by accident than design. They certainly contain mixtures of UAs
and Districts, and sometimes straddle "ceremonial county" boundaries.
This makes it a challenge to fit them into a true hierarchy. 

The GLA is legally a special case, but in practical terms it is very
like a Metropolitan County (now abolished) with Metropolitan Districts
as constituent parts. The London Boroughs are at level 8, so in that
respect the GLA would slot right in at level 6; but the GLA also covers
the City of London, which is currently also at level 6. 

> Stepping back: how is the map data being used? Is a way to identify the 
> Combined Authorities now more relevant than the (English) Government Regions? 
> Should this be handled in some other way than admin_level, which looks as 
> though it's intended for countries where everything is in a strict and 
> consistent hierarchy?

My thought is that the Government Regions can safely be migrated to
boundary=statistical as someone has already mentioned (sorry I forget
exactly who). 

An alternative approach for CAs is to model them as collections of other
objects - in OSM terms, a relation with the constituent area relations
as members. This would allow the individual relations to be given roles
within the CA, thus creating a possibility to include "associate
members" and non-local-authority members (such as fire services which
have their own relations in OSM) that are sometimes legally represented
in the CA governance.___
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[OSM-talk-fr] Bouton modifier inaccessible

[Cédric Frayssinet]

Bonjour à tous,

J'ai voulu tester les nouvelles fonctionnalités de la prise en charge des 
écrans tactiles dans iD et je dois dire que j'ai eu une difficulté rédibitoire, 
je n'arrive pas à trouver le bouton modifier depuis la page openstreetmap.org 
(depuis mon téléphone).

Avez-vous déjà remarqué cela ?

Merci d'avance pour vos réponses et éventuellement lien pour déposer un ticket.

Cédric

---
Envoyé depuis l'application smartphone FairEmail, libre et orientée sécurité, 
veuillez excuser ma brièveté.
https://email.faircode.eu

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[OSM-talk-fr] covid19, saison 2

[osm . sanspourriel]

Bonjour,

à défaut de nouvelle vague (quoique), les règlements sur les masques
changent.

On avait parlé de ça mais depuis le port du masque dans les magasins
étant obligatoire il devenait inutile de le taguer spécifiquement.

Depuis il est obligatoire dans certaines rues, sur certains marchés.

*safety:mask:covid19=yes* l'emporte en France sur safety:covid19=mask.

Christian R. pas mal de marchés concernés dans ton département mais pas
le principal (Saint-Renan), ce serait trop logique.

Jean-Yvon

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[Talk-TW] weeklyOSM #522 2020-07-14-2020-07-20

[weeklyteam]

台灣社群朋友好：
每週 OSM 新聞匯集文摘，# 522 期，如今已經發佈台灣華語版本，涵蓋開放街圖世界的大小事情！

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/zh/archives/13430/

歡迎閱讀！

你知道你能提供消息給 weeklyOSM 小組嗎？只要用 OSM 帳號登入 https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login 
就可以了。關於怎麼撰寫的方式請參閱：http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM? 
誰：https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
那裡呢？：https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [OSM-talk] Removing all signposts from relations

[Alex Dawn]

Ah sorry maybe in that other order. The key point is to sort the stops and the 
ways separately and how tools can still route along the ordered ways.


From: Jo 
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 12:00:51 PM
To: Alex Dawn 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Removing all signposts from relations

Where does it say that, because in most route relations I looked at the stops 
are first (preferably in the order they are passed) and then the ways in the 
order they are traversed.

Polyglot

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 10:15 PM Alex Dawn 
mailto:al_4...@hotmail.co.uk>> wrote:
The PTv2 schema says to put all the route ways first in order, then the bus 
stops in order.

Maybe you can do a similar thing here and sort the route ways first and then 
the sign points.

Get Outlook for Android


From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2020 9:04:11 PM
To: bartosom...@yahoo.it 
mailto:bartosom...@yahoo.it>>
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Removing all signposts from relations



sent from a phone

On 25. Jul 2020, at 20:33, Alberto Nogaro via talk 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:


So if you do so, information is indeed lost.

+1


Otherwise I can’t see why should it difficult to data consumer to strip the 
unwanted information before processing the route.


+1





Unless the script preserves the information by storing it by alternative means, 
I would regard such a script as vandalism.

I agree and oppose this proposed automatic edit

Cheers Martin
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[Talk-at] AGIT 2020 Virtuell - Vorträge

[Markus Mayr]

Hallo!

Für kurze Zeit sind die virtuellen AGIT Vorträge, und somit auch die 
Vorträge des OSGeo Days abrufbar.


 * Teil #1 (OpenSource Geo Dienste):
   https://echo360.org.uk/lesson/6648a0f4-a0c4-4273-b2d0-09c5733119e6/classroom
 * Teil #2 (Open Source Desktop GIS/ QGIS):
   https://echo360.org.uk/lesson/15f34991-3d53-4c3f-b318-26b163d9a7e9/classroom
 * Teil #3 (Open Source Geodatenmanagement):
   https://echo360.org.uk/lesson/cd5f320c-93de-4ef5-80f3-0a1aa78edab1/classroom

Beste Grüße,
Markus (ScubbX)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Admin Boundaries and Combined Authorities

[Colin Smale]

On 2020-07-28 11:45, Ed Loach wrote:

> Colin wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for your message. I would like to challenge one point - your 
>> assertion that the Regions 
>> at admin_level=5 are in "widespread popular use". It is true that many 
>> people talk about 
>> geographical regions like "the South-East" or "the North-West". But these 
>> are ill-defined 
>> vernacular phrases and do not refer to the sharply-defined regions that are 
>> only occasionally 
>> used in governmental areas. If you asked people "is Essex in the South-East" 
>> I expect 99% would 
>> say "yes"
> 
> I must be in that 1% being an Essex resident who lives in the East of England 
> (and gets "Look East" as the local news).

No offence intended of course! It sounds like you are towards the north
of Essex then. But yes, you are right, my use of "99%" was hyperbole to
make a point. Boundaries of TV regions, both BBC and ITV, can also often
appear a bit random to the naked eye and depend to no small degree on
the locations and coverage of transmitters, meaning that my part of Kent
can basically only get London programs unless you have a high-gain
aerial on a pole to get the Kent programs from Bluebell Hill. 

> Admin level 5 is the NUTS 1 regions which as far as I know we are still using 
> to keep statistics from one year to the next even though we have now left the 
> EU. As such it is a meaningful admin level as much as say UPRNs on 
> properties, or references on A roads, or fhrs ids. 
> 
> There is some argument I suppose for changing from boundary=administrative 
> admin_level=5 to boundary=statistical and something to indicate NUTS 1 though 
> (type will have already been used for type=boundary).

That sounds like a good plan to me.___
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] balisages club vosgien et GR

[Yves P.]

> J'ajoute que j'ai déjà eu l'occasion d'échanger avec un membre de la 
> commission sentiers et itinéraires départementale FFRP 35 qui contribue à 
> OSM. Il connaît bien la controverse, objet de ce fil et il ne comprend pas la 
> position de la fédération.
> 
> A mon sens, une raison de plus pour ne pas se restreindre à cartographier les 
> GR dans OSM…
+1

Et beaucoup de GR font partie de Sentier européen de grande randonnée 
. 
Ils seraient cartographiés dans toute l'Europe sauf en France ? ;)

De mémoire, j'ai trouvé des relations E? et GR? qui ne partagent pas la même 
sous relation.
La logique serait d'avoir une sous relation GR? pour une section / étape, 
membre de la relation GR? et aussi membre de la relation E? (car le GR ne fait 
pas forcément partie intégrale de l'E?).

Par exemple, la section de route  
vers le col de la Faucille fait partie du GR 9 de Mijoux à Yenne 
 et de la partie française de 
l'E4 .

__
Yves

PS : "le Club vosgien, […] fut une des premières associations à baliser des 
sentiers". Source: La randonnée, une marche triomphante in Libération, 26 
juillet 2020 


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Re: [Talk-GB] Admin Boundaries and Combined Authorities

[Ed Loach]

Colin wrote:

> Thanks for your message. I would like to challenge one point - your assertion 
> that the Regions 
> at admin_level=5 are in "widespread popular use". It is true that many people 
> talk about 
> geographical regions like "the South-East" or "the North-West". But these are 
> ill-defined 
> vernacular phrases and do not refer to the sharply-defined regions that are 
> only occasionally 
> used in governmental areas. If you asked people "is Essex in the South-East" 
> I expect 99% would 
> say "yes"

I must be in that 1% being an Essex resident who lives in the East of England 
(and gets "Look East" as the local news). 

Admin level 5 is the NUTS 1 regions which as far as I know we are still using 
to keep statistics from one year to the next even though we have now left the 
EU. As such it is a meaningful admin level as much as say UPRNs on properties, 
or references on A roads, or fhrs ids. 

There is some argument I suppose for changing from boundary=administrative 
admin_level=5 to boundary=statistical and something to indicate NUTS 1 though 
(type will have already been used for type=boundary).

Ed


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Re: [Talk-es] Edit war about names in Basque speaking regions

[Jorge Sanz Sanfructuoso]

En la wiki aquí está documentado lo que se ha ido decidiendo sobre los
idiomas hasta ahora.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Directrices_de_etiquetado_espa%C3%B1olas#Idiomas
Añadir lo que falte. Por ejemplo el documento que se ha puesto por aquí del
BOE.

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 10:15, Alejandro Moreno ()
escribió:

> Sería interesante documentar esto en la Wiki. A mí me han surgido estas
> dudas para otros territorios y al final es un jaleo encontrar los porqués
> de las decisiones de los name de cada geografía.
>
> El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 10:10, Jose Luis Infante (<
> jlinfa...@llefia.org>) escribió:
>
>> Hola a todos,
>>
>> parece que en la discusión del changeset
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88172976 se ha podido llegar a
>> un acuerdo en los criterios. A ver si dura.
>>
>> Un saludo,
>>
>> Jose Luis
>>
>> El mar., 28 de julio de 2020 9:07, F. Verdú 
>> escribió:
>>
>>> Pienso igual. La comparación con la situación italiano/germana es
>>> adecuada en tanto que son lenguas de distintas familias, más aún en Euskera
>>> que la inteligibilidad mutua debe ser nula. Si ellos tienen
>>> allí placas bilingües y el mapa debe reflejar esa realidad, no hay más.
>>> Google Maps por ejemplo se equivoca y mucho en eso, primando el nomrbe en
>>> castellano que acaba por confundir.
>>> Ceñirse al catastro (que no es fiable ni en la fecha de construcción de
>>> edificio de principios del XX) es una excusa comparable a la norma de
>>> Wikipedia:ES que poco falta para que meta en San Cucufate por Sant Cugat
>>>
>>> Saludos.
>>>
>>> Missatge de Jose Luis Infante  del dia dl., 27 de
>>> jul. 2020 a les 11:29:
>>>
 Hola,

 He seleccionado uno de los changesets comentados. Los comentarios son
 un poco desagradables. Uno dice que los nombres de las calles deben ser los
 marcados por el Catastro, y el otro que el uso normal.

 El changeset en cuestión:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88172976 .

 Es complicado ver placas de calles en el pueblo, pero he encontrado un
 par en
 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.131308,-1.667874,3a,85.4y,205.15h,91.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT0OuSATVaNhqlJJvJswmGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
  y
 aparecen en los dos idiomas.

 En cuanto a la denominación oficial de las calles, ya que el municipio
 pertenece a Navarra, tenemos la Ley Foral del Euskera(1). En concreto este
 municipio, Doneztebe/Santesteban, está dentro de la zona vascófona, por lo
 que los topónimos tienen denominación oficial en euskera, salvo que exista
 denominación distinta en castellano, en cuyo caso se utilizarán ambas.

 El artículo 16 de la ley(2) dice:
 "Las entidades locales de la zona vascófona utilizarán el castellano y
 el euskera en todas sus disposiciones, publicaciones, rotulaciones de vías
 urbanas y nombres propios de lugares, respetando, en todo caso, los
 tradicionales."

 Así que en este caso la denominación en los dos idiomas es correcta,
 por lo que se debería eliminar el bloqueo al usuario Hart Beltza si nadie
 argumenta lo contrario.

 Un saludo,
 José Luis

 (1) https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_Foral_del_Euskera#Toponimia
 (2) https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1987-1257#a1-8

 El lun., 27 de julio de 2020 0:31, Cruz Enrique Borges Hernández <
 cruzki...@gmail.com> escribió:

> Hola a todos,
>
> Yo puedo confirmar que prácticamente todas las señales viarias están
> en ambos idiomas cuando se puede... y cuando no caben, en el principio
> de la calle está en un idioma y en el final en el otro. En cualquier
> caso, según el BOE las vías deberían de estar en bilingüe (Artículo 10
> de https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2012-5539) por lo que
> entiendo que esto tiene poca discusión, deben de estar en biligue y
> con sus respectivos name:es y name:eu.
>
> Un saludo,
> cruz
>
> On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 23:02, Jordi Miró Ferrer 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hola,
> > El criterio usado en algunos de los changeset por Hart Beltza parece
> correcto si en el municipio aparecen placas con los nombres en ambos
> idiomas. Es decir, en name deben aparecer los dos nombres separados por 
> una
> barra. Luego, habría que añadir las traducciones en name:eu y name:es.
> Catastro no siempre es lo oficial. Por ejemplo, la ciudad de València 
> tiene
> el callejero en catalán de manera oficial, pero los de Catastro no lo han
> modificado y sigue saliendo en castellano. En principio, las placas
> deberían anteponerse a lo que diga el Catastro, a no ser que exista un
> error ortográfico en la placa. En este último cado, lo suyo sería
> corregirlo en OSM.
> >
> > Saludos
> >
> > 
> > De: Frederik Ramm 
> > Enviat el: divendres, 24 de juliol de 2020 22:39
> > Per a: 

Re: [Talk-GB] Admin Boundaries and Combined Authorities

[Colin Smale]

Hi Sarah, 

Thanks for your message. I would like to challenge one point - your
assertion that the Regions at admin_level=5 are in "widespread popular
use". It is true that many people talk about geographical regions like
"the South-East" or "the North-West". But these are ill-defined
vernacular phrases and do not refer to the sharply-defined regions that
are only occasionally used in governmental areas. If you asked people
"is Essex in the South-East" I expect 99% would say "yes", and asking
people to locate the Isle of Wight in either South-East or South-West
would yield, at best, an inconclusive result. 

Hence my suggestion that admin level 5 for government regions is no
longer in active use, and is therefore available for adoption by the
Combined Authorities. 

I am sure I don't need to remind you of the disconnect in the UK between
a) administrative areas, b) postal addressing and c) people's perception
of "locations"...

Best regards, 

Colin 

On 2020-07-28 09:48, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm the one who caused this discussion by editing West Yorkshire. I was 
> looking
> into admin boundaries for Nominatim (the search engine) who uses them to
> determine the place description or address of a place. As part of this I had
> noticed a hole in the admin level 6 coverage and 'fixed' it.
> 
> I have to say that this discussion reflects a paradigm shift in the 
> interpretation
> of boundary=administrative that I find concerning. boundary=administrative 
> used
> to reflect the hierarchical structure of a country as viewed by popular use. 
> That
> is quite practical because it makes it possible to determine reasonable 
> subdivisions
> from the OSM data without having to know how exactly a country is governed.
> 
> Since a few months I notice more and more that people start to interpret
> boundary=administrative in a literal sense and argue that all those where 
> there is
> no direct governmental function have to go away or retagged with something 
> else.
> This 'something else' is often locally chosen without any coordination with 
> the
> international community or any documentation what so ever (try finding out 
> about
> boundary=ceremonial in the wiki if you don't believe me). I fear that we
> end up with a fragmentation in tagging that makes it seriously difficult to 
> use the
> data in a meaningful way.
> 
> Coming back to the issue at hand: the regions on admin level 5 may not 
> exactly have
> an administrative function but my impression is that they are in wide-spread
> popular use. I don't visit the UK often but even I am aware of them. That's a
> good reason to include them in the boundary=administrative hierarchy. Moving 
> them
> to some other tagging schema makes them practically invisible.
> 
> Mixing regions and CAs in admin_level=5 is not a good idea either because it
> breaks the global assumption that the admin_levels create a proper hierarchy.
> Same goes for admin_level=5.5. This would be really unexpected and likely just
> ignored by most consumers.
> 
> Sarah
> 
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 06:41:02AM +0100, Steve Doerr wrote: 
> 
>> Could they perhaps be 5.5 to distinguish them from regions?
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> From: Brian Prangle [mailto:bpran...@gmail.com]
>> 
>> I favour admin  level 5 too.
>> 
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 at 23:52, Colin Smale >  > wrote:
>> 
>> The LAs of which the CAs are composed are sometimes Metropolitan Boroughs 
>> with admin_level=8, and sometimes Unitary Authorities with admin_level=6. I 
>> am tending towards admin_level=5; this value is/was in use for the Regions, 
>> but they no longer have an admin function (if they ever had one) so I 
>> consider admin level 5 as "available" for use by Combined Authorities.
>> 
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
>> ___
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>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] balisages club vosgien et GR

[Romain MEHUT]

Bonjour,



J'ajoute que j'ai déjà eu l'occasion d'échanger avec un membre de la commission 
sentiers et itinéraires départementale FFRP 35 qui contribue à OSM. Il connaît 
bien la controverse, objet de ce fil et il ne comprend pas la position de la 
fédération.



A mon sens, une raison de plus pour ne pas se restreindre à cartographier les 
GR dans OSM...



Romain


De : Lucas Nussbaum 
À : talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Sujet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] balisages club vosgien et GR
Date : 27/07/2020 16:29:09 Europe/Paris

Re-bonjour,

Je me réponds à moi-même.

Si j'ai bien compris, le statut de ces itinéraires (et de ceux de la
FFGR, comme les GR) est flou. Il y en a un certain nombre dans OSM, et
il y a eu un projet de nettoyage[1] qui n'a pas abouti. Mais il reste
une interrogation sur la légalité (voir cette présentation[2]).

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/France/NettoyageDesItin%C3%A9rairesDeRandonn%C3%A9e
[2] 
https://fr.slideshare.net/VincentDeChateauThie/les-droits-opposs-osm-le-cas-des-gr

C'est bien ça ?

Lucas

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Re: [Talk-es] Edit war about names in Basque speaking regions

[Alejandro Moreno]

Sería interesante documentar esto en la Wiki. A mí me han surgido estas
dudas para otros territorios y al final es un jaleo encontrar los porqués
de las decisiones de los name de cada geografía.

El mar., 28 jul. 2020 a las 10:10, Jose Luis Infante ()
escribió:

> Hola a todos,
>
> parece que en la discusión del changeset
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88172976 se ha podido llegar a un
> acuerdo en los criterios. A ver si dura.
>
> Un saludo,
>
> Jose Luis
>
> El mar., 28 de julio de 2020 9:07, F. Verdú 
> escribió:
>
>> Pienso igual. La comparación con la situación italiano/germana es
>> adecuada en tanto que son lenguas de distintas familias, más aún en Euskera
>> que la inteligibilidad mutua debe ser nula. Si ellos tienen
>> allí placas bilingües y el mapa debe reflejar esa realidad, no hay más.
>> Google Maps por ejemplo se equivoca y mucho en eso, primando el nomrbe en
>> castellano que acaba por confundir.
>> Ceñirse al catastro (que no es fiable ni en la fecha de construcción de
>> edificio de principios del XX) es una excusa comparable a la norma de
>> Wikipedia:ES que poco falta para que meta en San Cucufate por Sant Cugat
>>
>> Saludos.
>>
>> Missatge de Jose Luis Infante  del dia dl., 27 de
>> jul. 2020 a les 11:29:
>>
>>> Hola,
>>>
>>> He seleccionado uno de los changesets comentados. Los comentarios son un
>>> poco desagradables. Uno dice que los nombres de las calles deben ser los
>>> marcados por el Catastro, y el otro que el uso normal.
>>>
>>> El changeset en cuestión:
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88172976 .
>>>
>>> Es complicado ver placas de calles en el pueblo, pero he encontrado un
>>> par en
>>> https://www.google.com/maps/@43.131308,-1.667874,3a,85.4y,205.15h,91.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT0OuSATVaNhqlJJvJswmGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>>>  y
>>> aparecen en los dos idiomas.
>>>
>>> En cuanto a la denominación oficial de las calles, ya que el municipio
>>> pertenece a Navarra, tenemos la Ley Foral del Euskera(1). En concreto este
>>> municipio, Doneztebe/Santesteban, está dentro de la zona vascófona, por lo
>>> que los topónimos tienen denominación oficial en euskera, salvo que exista
>>> denominación distinta en castellano, en cuyo caso se utilizarán ambas.
>>>
>>> El artículo 16 de la ley(2) dice:
>>> "Las entidades locales de la zona vascófona utilizarán el castellano y
>>> el euskera en todas sus disposiciones, publicaciones, rotulaciones de vías
>>> urbanas y nombres propios de lugares, respetando, en todo caso, los
>>> tradicionales."
>>>
>>> Así que en este caso la denominación en los dos idiomas es correcta, por
>>> lo que se debería eliminar el bloqueo al usuario Hart Beltza si nadie
>>> argumenta lo contrario.
>>>
>>> Un saludo,
>>> José Luis
>>>
>>> (1) https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_Foral_del_Euskera#Toponimia
>>> (2) https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1987-1257#a1-8
>>>
>>> El lun., 27 de julio de 2020 0:31, Cruz Enrique Borges Hernández <
>>> cruzki...@gmail.com> escribió:
>>>
 Hola a todos,

 Yo puedo confirmar que prácticamente todas las señales viarias están
 en ambos idiomas cuando se puede... y cuando no caben, en el principio
 de la calle está en un idioma y en el final en el otro. En cualquier
 caso, según el BOE las vías deberían de estar en bilingüe (Artículo 10
 de https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2012-5539) por lo que
 entiendo que esto tiene poca discusión, deben de estar en biligue y
 con sus respectivos name:es y name:eu.

 Un saludo,
 cruz

 On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 23:02, Jordi Miró Ferrer 
 wrote:
 >
 > Hola,
 > El criterio usado en algunos de los changeset por Hart Beltza parece
 correcto si en el municipio aparecen placas con los nombres en ambos
 idiomas. Es decir, en name deben aparecer los dos nombres separados por una
 barra. Luego, habría que añadir las traducciones en name:eu y name:es.
 Catastro no siempre es lo oficial. Por ejemplo, la ciudad de València tiene
 el callejero en catalán de manera oficial, pero los de Catastro no lo han
 modificado y sigue saliendo en castellano. En principio, las placas
 deberían anteponerse a lo que diga el Catastro, a no ser que exista un
 error ortográfico en la placa. En este último cado, lo suyo sería
 corregirlo en OSM.
 >
 > Saludos
 >
 > 
 > De: Frederik Ramm 
 > Enviat el: divendres, 24 de juliol de 2020 22:39
 > Per a: talk-es@openstreetmap.org 
 > Tema: [Talk-es] Edit war about names in Basque speaking regions
 >
 > Hi,
 >
 > one user has changed several street names from the Spanish form to a
 > combined "Basque / Spanish" form. This has angered another user and
 > there have been fights about how these streets should be named.
 >
 > I have blocked the user "Hartz Beltza" in
 > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3807 and requested that
 they
 > 

Re: [Talk-es] Edit war about names in Basque speaking regions

[Jose Luis Infante]

Hola a todos,

parece que en la discusión del changeset
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88172976 se ha podido llegar a un
acuerdo en los criterios. A ver si dura.

Un saludo,

Jose Luis

El mar., 28 de julio de 2020 9:07, F. Verdú  escribió:

> Pienso igual. La comparación con la situación italiano/germana es adecuada
> en tanto que son lenguas de distintas familias, más aún en Euskera que la
> inteligibilidad mutua debe ser nula. Si ellos tienen allí placas bilingües
> y el mapa debe reflejar esa realidad, no hay más. Google Maps por ejemplo
> se equivoca y mucho en eso, primando el nomrbe en castellano que acaba por
> confundir.
> Ceñirse al catastro (que no es fiable ni en la fecha de construcción de
> edificio de principios del XX) es una excusa comparable a la norma de
> Wikipedia:ES que poco falta para que meta en San Cucufate por Sant Cugat
>
> Saludos.
>
> Missatge de Jose Luis Infante  del dia dl., 27 de
> jul. 2020 a les 11:29:
>
>> Hola,
>>
>> He seleccionado uno de los changesets comentados. Los comentarios son un
>> poco desagradables. Uno dice que los nombres de las calles deben ser los
>> marcados por el Catastro, y el otro que el uso normal.
>>
>> El changeset en cuestión:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88172976 .
>>
>> Es complicado ver placas de calles en el pueblo, pero he encontrado un
>> par en
>> https://www.google.com/maps/@43.131308,-1.667874,3a,85.4y,205.15h,91.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT0OuSATVaNhqlJJvJswmGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>>  y
>> aparecen en los dos idiomas.
>>
>> En cuanto a la denominación oficial de las calles, ya que el municipio
>> pertenece a Navarra, tenemos la Ley Foral del Euskera(1). En concreto este
>> municipio, Doneztebe/Santesteban, está dentro de la zona vascófona, por lo
>> que los topónimos tienen denominación oficial en euskera, salvo que exista
>> denominación distinta en castellano, en cuyo caso se utilizarán ambas.
>>
>> El artículo 16 de la ley(2) dice:
>> "Las entidades locales de la zona vascófona utilizarán el castellano y el
>> euskera en todas sus disposiciones, publicaciones, rotulaciones de vías
>> urbanas y nombres propios de lugares, respetando, en todo caso, los
>> tradicionales."
>>
>> Así que en este caso la denominación en los dos idiomas es correcta, por
>> lo que se debería eliminar el bloqueo al usuario Hart Beltza si nadie
>> argumenta lo contrario.
>>
>> Un saludo,
>> José Luis
>>
>> (1) https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_Foral_del_Euskera#Toponimia
>> (2) https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1987-1257#a1-8
>>
>> El lun., 27 de julio de 2020 0:31, Cruz Enrique Borges Hernández <
>> cruzki...@gmail.com> escribió:
>>
>>> Hola a todos,
>>>
>>> Yo puedo confirmar que prácticamente todas las señales viarias están
>>> en ambos idiomas cuando se puede... y cuando no caben, en el principio
>>> de la calle está en un idioma y en el final en el otro. En cualquier
>>> caso, según el BOE las vías deberían de estar en bilingüe (Artículo 10
>>> de https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2012-5539) por lo que
>>> entiendo que esto tiene poca discusión, deben de estar en biligue y
>>> con sus respectivos name:es y name:eu.
>>>
>>> Un saludo,
>>> cruz
>>>
>>> On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 23:02, Jordi Miró Ferrer 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hola,
>>> > El criterio usado en algunos de los changeset por Hart Beltza parece
>>> correcto si en el municipio aparecen placas con los nombres en ambos
>>> idiomas. Es decir, en name deben aparecer los dos nombres separados por una
>>> barra. Luego, habría que añadir las traducciones en name:eu y name:es.
>>> Catastro no siempre es lo oficial. Por ejemplo, la ciudad de València tiene
>>> el callejero en catalán de manera oficial, pero los de Catastro no lo han
>>> modificado y sigue saliendo en castellano. En principio, las placas
>>> deberían anteponerse a lo que diga el Catastro, a no ser que exista un
>>> error ortográfico en la placa. En este último cado, lo suyo sería
>>> corregirlo en OSM.
>>> >
>>> > Saludos
>>> >
>>> > 
>>> > De: Frederik Ramm 
>>> > Enviat el: divendres, 24 de juliol de 2020 22:39
>>> > Per a: talk-es@openstreetmap.org 
>>> > Tema: [Talk-es] Edit war about names in Basque speaking regions
>>> >
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > one user has changed several street names from the Spanish form to a
>>> > combined "Basque / Spanish" form. This has angered another user and
>>> > there have been fights about how these streets should be named.
>>> >
>>> > I have blocked the user "Hartz Beltza" in
>>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3807 and requested that they
>>> > discuss the matter with the Spanish community before they continue. (I
>>> > have also requested from user H2Ox2 that he use better changeset
>>> comments.)
>>> >
>>> > In OpenStreetMap it is very rare that we use dual languages in the
>>> > "name" tag but it *does* happen, for example in the bilingual
>>> > (Italian/German speaking) region of South Tyrol. There, both languages
>>> > 

Re: [Talk-GB] Admin Boundaries and Combined Authorities

[Sarah Hoffmann]

Hi,

I'm the one who caused this discussion by editing West Yorkshire. I was looking
into admin boundaries for Nominatim (the search engine) who uses them to
determine the place description or address of a place. As part of this I had
noticed a hole in the admin level 6 coverage and 'fixed' it.

I have to say that this discussion reflects a paradigm shift in the 
interpretation
of boundary=administrative that I find concerning. boundary=administrative used
to reflect the hierarchical structure of a country as viewed by popular use. 
That
is quite practical because it makes it possible to determine reasonable 
subdivisions
from the OSM data without having to know how exactly a country is governed.

Since a few months I notice more and more that people start to interpret
boundary=administrative in a literal sense and argue that all those where there 
is
no direct governmental function have to go away or retagged with something else.
This 'something else' is often locally chosen without any coordination with the
international community or any documentation what so ever (try finding out about
boundary=ceremonial in the wiki if you don't believe me). I fear that we
end up with a fragmentation in tagging that makes it seriously difficult to use 
the
data in a meaningful way.

Coming back to the issue at hand: the regions on admin level 5 may not exactly 
have
an administrative function but my impression is that they are in wide-spread
popular use. I don't visit the UK often but even I am aware of them. That's a
good reason to include them in the boundary=administrative hierarchy. Moving 
them
to some other tagging schema makes them practically invisible.

Mixing regions and CAs in admin_level=5 is not a good idea either because it
breaks the global assumption that the admin_levels create a proper hierarchy.
Same goes for admin_level=5.5. This would be really unexpected and likely just
ignored by most consumers.

Sarah


On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 06:41:02AM +0100, Steve Doerr wrote:
> Could they perhaps be 5.5 to distinguish them from regions?
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Brian Prangle [mailto:bpran...@gmail.com]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I favour admin  level 5 too.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 at 23:52, Colin Smale   > wrote:
> 
> The LAs of which the CAs are composed are sometimes Metropolitan Boroughs 
> with admin_level=8, and sometimes Unitary Authorities with admin_level=6. I 
> am tending towards admin_level=5; this value is/was in use for the Regions, 
> but they no longer have an admin function (if they ever had one) so I 
> consider admin level 5 as "available" for use by Combined Authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Re: [Talk-es] Edit war about names in Basque speaking regions

[F . Verdú]

Pienso igual. La comparación con la situación italiano/germana es adecuada
en tanto que son lenguas de distintas familias, más aún en Euskera que la
inteligibilidad mutua debe ser nula. Si ellos tienen allí placas bilingües
y el mapa debe reflejar esa realidad, no hay más. Google Maps por ejemplo
se equivoca y mucho en eso, primando el nomrbe en castellano que acaba por
confundir.
Ceñirse al catastro (que no es fiable ni en la fecha de construcción de
edificio de principios del XX) es una excusa comparable a la norma de
Wikipedia:ES que poco falta para que meta en San Cucufate por Sant Cugat

Saludos.

Missatge de Jose Luis Infante  del dia dl., 27 de
jul. 2020 a les 11:29:

> Hola,
>
> He seleccionado uno de los changesets comentados. Los comentarios son un
> poco desagradables. Uno dice que los nombres de las calles deben ser los
> marcados por el Catastro, y el otro que el uso normal.
>
> El changeset en cuestión: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88172976
>  .
>
> Es complicado ver placas de calles en el pueblo, pero he encontrado un par
> en
> https://www.google.com/maps/@43.131308,-1.667874,3a,85.4y,205.15h,91.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT0OuSATVaNhqlJJvJswmGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>  y
> aparecen en los dos idiomas.
>
> En cuanto a la denominación oficial de las calles, ya que el municipio
> pertenece a Navarra, tenemos la Ley Foral del Euskera(1). En concreto este
> municipio, Doneztebe/Santesteban, está dentro de la zona vascófona, por lo
> que los topónimos tienen denominación oficial en euskera, salvo que exista
> denominación distinta en castellano, en cuyo caso se utilizarán ambas.
>
> El artículo 16 de la ley(2) dice:
> "Las entidades locales de la zona vascófona utilizarán el castellano y el
> euskera en todas sus disposiciones, publicaciones, rotulaciones de vías
> urbanas y nombres propios de lugares, respetando, en todo caso, los
> tradicionales."
>
> Así que en este caso la denominación en los dos idiomas es correcta, por
> lo que se debería eliminar el bloqueo al usuario Hart Beltza si nadie
> argumenta lo contrario.
>
> Un saludo,
> José Luis
>
> (1) https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_Foral_del_Euskera#Toponimia
> (2) https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1987-1257#a1-8
>
> El lun., 27 de julio de 2020 0:31, Cruz Enrique Borges Hernández <
> cruzki...@gmail.com> escribió:
>
>> Hola a todos,
>>
>> Yo puedo confirmar que prácticamente todas las señales viarias están
>> en ambos idiomas cuando se puede... y cuando no caben, en el principio
>> de la calle está en un idioma y en el final en el otro. En cualquier
>> caso, según el BOE las vías deberían de estar en bilingüe (Artículo 10
>> de https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2012-5539) por lo que
>> entiendo que esto tiene poca discusión, deben de estar en biligue y
>> con sus respectivos name:es y name:eu.
>>
>> Un saludo,
>> cruz
>>
>> On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 23:02, Jordi Miró Ferrer 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hola,
>> > El criterio usado en algunos de los changeset por Hart Beltza parece
>> correcto si en el municipio aparecen placas con los nombres en ambos
>> idiomas. Es decir, en name deben aparecer los dos nombres separados por una
>> barra. Luego, habría que añadir las traducciones en name:eu y name:es.
>> Catastro no siempre es lo oficial. Por ejemplo, la ciudad de València tiene
>> el callejero en catalán de manera oficial, pero los de Catastro no lo han
>> modificado y sigue saliendo en castellano. En principio, las placas
>> deberían anteponerse a lo que diga el Catastro, a no ser que exista un
>> error ortográfico en la placa. En este último cado, lo suyo sería
>> corregirlo en OSM.
>> >
>> > Saludos
>> >
>> > 
>> > De: Frederik Ramm 
>> > Enviat el: divendres, 24 de juliol de 2020 22:39
>> > Per a: talk-es@openstreetmap.org 
>> > Tema: [Talk-es] Edit war about names in Basque speaking regions
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > one user has changed several street names from the Spanish form to a
>> > combined "Basque / Spanish" form. This has angered another user and
>> > there have been fights about how these streets should be named.
>> >
>> > I have blocked the user "Hartz Beltza" in
>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/3807 and requested that they
>> > discuss the matter with the Spanish community before they continue. (I
>> > have also requested from user H2Ox2 that he use better changeset
>> comments.)
>> >
>> > In OpenStreetMap it is very rare that we use dual languages in the
>> > "name" tag but it *does* happen, for example in the bilingual
>> > (Italian/German speaking) region of South Tyrol. There, both languages
>> > are actually shown on the street signs. I don't know how this is in the
>> > Basque regions. I am not saying you cannot do it but it required a broad
>> > consensus that it is the right thing to do.
>> >
>> > It is a decision that the Spanish community should be making, and the
>> > DWG will then help enforce it.
>> >
>> > Please continue this discussion in Spanish. I