[OSM-talk] Congratulations everyone!

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Today the OpenStreetMap project won the Award for Projects of Social
Benefit from the Free Software Foundation. This was awarded at LibrePlanet.

Way to go everyone who has ever contributed to OSM!

Read more from the FSF here:
https://www.fsf.org/news/openstreetmap-and-deborah-nicholson-win-2018-fsf-awards

Kate
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[OSM-talk] General OSM Talk

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

I'm giving a general talk on OSM at LibrePlanet
 in a couple weeks.

It has been about a year since I've given one of these talks. Is there
anything new that you think is especially important or interesting I
should be sure to not miss?

(Also anything old that I should miss is also welcome)

Thanks!

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and Gender

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

The first discussion will take place Monday at 17:00 London time(1). This
will take place on the HOT Mumble server(2).

Thanks,

-Kate

(1)
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=OSM+and+Gender+First+Discussion&iso=20180226T17&p1=136&ah=1
(2) https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mumble

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Heather Leson 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We are hosting an online discussion about Gender and OSM. See details in
> my diary note as well as the doodle for scheduling. Add your availability
> by Thursday of this week so that we can announce the times.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Heather%20Leson/diary/43345
>
> We will host a few conversations on this topic. This is the first
> scheduled one. It will be hosted on mumble.
>
> Thanks
>
> Heather Leson and Kate Chapman
>
> Heather Leson
> heatherle...@gmail.com
> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] diversity-talk: No such list

[Kate Chapman]

I shut down the list because it was not being used and instead I was ending
up having to read a bunch of spam.

If someone wants to moderate and admin the list I'm sure it could be
brought back.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 19. Feb 2018, at 10:47, Rory McCann  wrote:
> >
> > Shame that it's gone. It's nice to be able to contact people in OSM who
> > are interested in diversity.
>
>
> yes, it’s a shame.
>
> Btw, the archive is still there, but it isn’t linked from the listinfo
> page anymore because there’s no active list. Maybe there’s a way it can be
> linked anyway? After all, it is documentation about previous activities.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
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[OSM-talk] Field Papers Interface Improvements Survey

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Cadasta(1) is currently a mentoring organization for Outreachy(1). The
internship we are supporting is working to make improvements to Field
Papers, including improving the interface. Prior to making any changes to
the live Field Papers site we'd like to collect some feedback from the
community.

If you are interested in providing feedback please head on over to the demo
over here(3). There are some mock-ups, interface options and a survey
there. We would like to collect feedback in the next week so we can make a
decision and begin focusing on that design. Also if you have questions
please feel free to reach out.

Best,

-Kate

(1) http://cadasta.org/
(2) https://www.gnome.org/outreachy/
(3) http://fieldpapers-demo.cadasta.org/
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Kate Chapman]

Can you explain to me what a "rapid anti-OSMer" is? I can only assume that
is someone that prefers to use proprietary mapslikely a contributor to
Google Mapmaker. Anyone who takes the time to get a OSM user account,
contributes data, runs a mapping event or otherwise introduces people to
OSM can hardly be considered anti-OSM. I think sometimes Missing Maps and
HOT are singled out because it is easy to figure out what they are doing
since much of the conversation seen is in English. Plenty of communities
around the world have different views and ways of contributing to the
project. Those stories don't always come out though and those groups aren't
usually vocal on the osm-talk mailing list.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 5:54 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you
> didn't intend for your statement to come across as it just did.
>
> While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and
> MM, I do assume that the majority of the HOT and MM communities are not
> falling in to the trap of believing their own marketing copy and realize
> that they are a small minority in the larger OSM community and are
> dependent on the good will and support of the wider OSM community to make a
> difference.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 19.11.2015 um 14:28 schrieb Kate Chapman:
>
> Hi Christoph,
>
> The flaw with this logic is that people in HOT are not participating in
> the OSM community. Is the OSM community to remain static and "conventions"
> made years ago may never change? Do we not have the same goal of a free map
> of the entire world?
>
> -Kate
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Christoph Hormann <
> chris_horm...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday 19 November 2015, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> >
>> > #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
>> > #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek
>> >
>> > This is *not* useful.
>>
>> But to be fair this is not only the fault of the mappers but also of the
>> HOT project managers since they specifically instruct mappers to use
>> such changeset comments.
>>
>> Generally the HOT project mapping instructions contain a lot of things
>> that are questionable from the viewpoint of the OSM community.  IMO HOT
>> needs to make sure these comply with the OSM conventions, for example
>> by sourcing these instructions from the OSM wiki and allowing the OSM
>> community to provide input and fixes this way.
>>
>> --
>> Christoph Hormann
>> http://www.imagico.de/
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Kate Chapman]

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 6:14 AM, Christoph Hormann 
wrote:

> On Thursday 19 November 2015, Kate Chapman wrote:
>
>
> And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read:
>
> "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and tag
> them landuse=residential"
>
> that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely to map
> reality, what's on the ground.  It instructs mappers to map something
> that does not exist in reality based on abstract geometric
> considerations and to give it a tag that is meant for something
> different.
>
> Referring to
>

 landuse=residential is a globally used tag, so you can hardly call out HOT
for using it.

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/landuse=residential#map



>
> > Do we not have the same goal of a free map of the entire world?
>
> if instructions like the above indeed describe the aims of HOT for
> mapping its vision of a free map of the entire world is indeed very
> different from mine.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Christoph,

The flaw with this logic is that people in HOT are not participating in the
OSM community. Is the OSM community to remain static and "conventions" made
years ago may never change? Do we not have the same goal of a free map of
the entire world?

-Kate

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Christoph Hormann 
wrote:

> On Thursday 19 November 2015, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> >
> > #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
> > #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek
> >
> > This is *not* useful.
>
> But to be fair this is not only the fault of the mappers but also of the
> HOT project managers since they specifically instruct mappers to use
> such changeset comments.
>
> Generally the HOT project mapping instructions contain a lot of things
> that are questionable from the viewpoint of the OSM community.  IMO HOT
> needs to make sure these comply with the OSM conventions, for example
> by sourcing these instructions from the OSM wiki and allowing the OSM
> community to provide input and fixes this way.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Frederik,

I fail to see how machine readable hashtags are "not useful". They allow
statistical analysis which can be used to inform future recruitment and
other activities. Often we make assumptions about OSM contributors not
backed by statistics this allows improvement in one corner of the OSM
community. Perhaps some human readable text would also be useful, but I
don't think of adding hashtag like comments as an issue.

-Kate

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>I would like to draw everyone's attention to a long-standing
> community recommendation:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_changeset_comments
>
> It explains why you should use sensible changeset comments that describe
> what you (think you) have been doing.
>
> I don't know exactly who encourages this, but I am seeing lots of
> changesets with comments like this:
>
> #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC) #100mapathons
> #OSMGeoWeek
>
> This is *not* useful. First of all, we're not Twitter; we don't evaluate
> these hashtags. I don't know if there are some downstream services that
> do, but if so, please switch to using a secondary tag (remember,
> changesets, like other OSM objects, can have any number of tags).
>
> As a reader of the edit history of a place, I am interested in someone
> writing that they have traced buildings or drawn roads or done whatever.
> I'm not so much interested in (what I perceive as) vanity hashtags, they
> don't help me understand what the person did.
>
> I mean look at this:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/history#map=6/8.418/43.923
>
> It's really a caricature of what changeset comments were meant to be.
>
> Can it be fixed somehow, or have we permanently moved from changeset
> comments being aimed at your fellow human mappers to changeset comments
> being auto-generated for consumption by some software that makes sense
> of them?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey Results for the thread "Some thoughts against remote mapping"

[Kate Chapman]

Yes, I would be especially interested if the results were broken out by
gender. Currently I suspect you just showed that men think OSM is welcoming
to women...since there aren't that many in OSM to even take the survey.

-Kate

On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> The issue raised by Frederik Ramm was, to paraphrase Ben Abelshausen, an
> interesting topic and certainly a lot of people wanted to contribute to the
> discussion. I was impressed by the positive tone taken by participants in
> the conversation. To me that bodes well for our community.
>
> Frederik raises important issue that the community felt the need to
> discuss. I wanted to get a snapshot of how people felt about the issue, not
> just the people on responding. A survey seemed like the best approach. The
> results are from a small, self selected group of mappers that subscribe to
> the talk mailing list. The results do not attempt to say what is the right
> answer, only what a small segment of the community feels towards the issue.
> Sixty-nine people did respond to the survey.
>
> OSM, especially OSMF, should consider conducting surveys to better
> understand mappers concerns. The third question, "Is OpenStreetMap
> welcoming to women?" should be overwhelmingly yes. Instead it appears that
> we don't know. I would like to see us get more data to help understand the
> problem so we get to 100% yes.
>
> Question 1: Do you agree with the statement "*Whenever you give someone a
> map by remote mapping, you also take something away from them.*"
>
> Answer Choices–
> Responses–
> –
> Strongly Agree
> 4.35%
> 3
> –
> Agree
> 14.49%
> 10
> –
> Disagree
> 56.52%
> 39
> –
> Strongly Disagree
> 24.64%
> 17
> Total69
>
> *80% disagree with the statement while 20% agree. *
>
> Question 2: *Do you agree or disagree with the statement "Imports stunt
> community growth*."
>
> Answer Choices–
> Responses–
> –
> Strongly Disagree
> 21.74%
> 15
> –
> Disagree
> 46.38%
> 32
> –
> Agree
> 24.64%
> 17
> –
> Strongly Agree
> 7.25%
> 5
> Total69
>
> *68% disagree with the statement while 32% agree.*
>
> Question 3: *Is OpenStreetMap welcoming to women?*
>
> Answer Choices–
> Responses–
> –
> Yes
> 42.03%
> 29
> –
> No
> 13.04%
> 9
> –
> Not sure
> 44.93%
> 31
> Total69
>
> It would be interesting to get more data, especially if the results were
> broken out by gender.
>
> Clifford
>
> --
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> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Kate Chapman]

I'm unsure if we have a good way to compare, but most people introduced to
OSM generally don't stick with it. Are the Missing Maps attrition rates any
different than people who find out about OSM in other ways?

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:55 PM, john whelan  wrote:

> >" Everything is geared towards churning through newbies and generating as
> much as possible media coverage, not fast, efficient and quality
> coverage of the areas in question. It may have not been intended so from
> the very start, but that is definitely what it has turned out to be."
>
> I tend to validate in HOT more than map these days and one comment I'd
> make is I've seen new mappers come into Nepal and later transfer into other
> HOT projects, their mapping skills are improving as well.  Once they get
> going with JOSM their productivity tends to go up so they're getting close
> to the 5% core.  Quite a number of projects have benefited from the Nepal
> newbies and whilst they might be new to OSM at least two are better than I
> at picking out details or knowing what to look for.  I think one comment
> was its much the same as their normal work when they were looking at the
> flooding in the UK.
>
> Perhaps we need something like the HOT validation system in OSM more
> generally but I don't know how it would work.  Locally OSM mappers have
> used a rich range of tags, I'd say about 25% other than highways didn't get
> rendered for one reason or another when they were initially tagged.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 15 June 2015 at 15:39, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>>
>> Kate
>>
>> I could go in to great lengths to define what the core mappers are,
>> perhaps the 5% that provide 95% of the data or the 10'000 that could
>> easily map the equivalent of a MM-mapping party on their own in an
>> afternoon and so on.
>>
>> But that is not the point, Robert was claiming that the remote part of
>> MM was designed to address 'the Western "core" of OSM contributors'. His
>> words, not mine, and clearly, from the first events on, that was not the
>> case, regardless of definition.
>>
>> Everything is geared towards churning through newbies and generating as
>> much as possible media coverage, not fast, efficient and quality
>> coverage of the areas in question. It may have not been intended so from
>> the very start, but that is definitely what it has turned out to be. I'm
>> sure it is a big boon for the involved organisations in any case.
>>
>> Everybody can do more or less do what they please in OSM which naturally
>> includes MM, but just so I don't have to like everything and I do
>> reserve myself the right to call a spade a spade.
>>
>> To end on a positive note: the team from HOT working on the activations
>> in the wake of the Nepal earthquake had to come to grips with the
>> reality that using disasters as a newbie recruiting events is perhaps
>> not such a good idea and after a considerable number of issues labelled
>> a lot of the tasks explicitly for experienced mappers which is likely
>> the way it should be.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> Am 15.06.2015 um 17:33 schrieb Kate Chapman:
>> > Simon,
>> >
>> > Can you explain to me who the "core OSM" contributors are?
>> >
>> > Is the issue that people doubt the usefulness of the remotely mapped
>> > data? That we don't really believe in our own success?
>> >
>> > -Kate
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:20 AM, Simon Poole > > <mailto:si...@poole.ch>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Am 15.06.2015 um 04:11 schrieb Robert Banick:
>> > ...
>> > >
>> > > Remote mapping was easier to set up in the early phases of the
>> project
>> > > and much more accessible to the Western “core” of OSM
>> contributors, not
>> > > to mention sympathetic journalists, who wanted to check out and
>> perhaps
>> > > contribute to the project. As a result the remote component has
>> gotten
>> > > an outsized amount of attention within the greater OSM community
>> even
>> > > though it’s only half of the story.
>> > ...
>> >
>> >
>> > I had a long diatribe here as a response that I thought better of,
>> but I
>> > really did want to point out that the remote part of missing maps
>> has
>> > never addressed the core OSM contributors at all. I don't think,
>> even
&g

Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Kate Chapman]

Simon,

Can you explain to me who the "core OSM" contributors are?

Is the issue that people doubt the usefulness of the remotely mapped data?
That we don't really believe in our own success?

-Kate

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:20 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

>
>
> Am 15.06.2015 um 04:11 schrieb Robert Banick:
> ...
> >
> > Remote mapping was easier to set up in the early phases of the project
> > and much more accessible to the Western “core” of OSM contributors, not
> > to mention sympathetic journalists, who wanted to check out and perhaps
> > contribute to the project. As a result the remote component has gotten
> > an outsized amount of attention within the greater OSM community even
> > though it’s only half of the story.
> ...
>
>
> I had a long diatribe here as a response that I thought better of, but I
> really did want to point out that the remote part of missing maps has
> never addressed the core OSM contributors at all. I don't think, even
> with giving everybody a lot of slack, that it can be seen as anything
> else than a marketing activity of the involved organisations in which
> the net result is not of any real concern. And I don't think shifting
> the blame for the above to the journalists is in any way fair.
>
>
> Simon
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Kate Chapman]

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

>
>
> Am 14.06.2015 um 17:21 schrieb Kate Chapman:
> >
>
> Further we have additional material in the early simulations that Matt
> Amos did that indicate that this is not unexpected given some
> assumptions about editor motivation.
>
> This sort of work has not really been updated recently however. The
community has grown and changed over the years. I think if we were to look
at motivations today vs. years ago they would likely be different. As OSM
is used on larger and larger platforms it is possible that people have
begun mapping to see their edits on Foursquare or Craigslist rather than
previously where people might be mapping to make their own map.

>
> I should point out that none of the above is in any way new, just
> conveniently ignored.
>

Not ignored, I'm just not sure it is solid enough evidence to justify for
or against imports worldwide.

-Kate




>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Kate Chapman]

Possibly, but we cite as fact that imports stunt community growth. I don't
think that has ever been proven in a way that cuts across cultures,
geographies or the quality of the data being imported. People usually point
to the TIGER import in the US. I don't think we can purely blame an import,
there is much more going on than simply there was data already there.

I'd love to see a broader, academically sound study of this.


On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 9:44 PM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Sometimes I wonder whether remote/armchair mapping has similar effects as
> imports to the growth of the local community.
>
> I think we have recognized that imports has a place in osm provided it
> follows community principles and guidelines. Maybe its time to discuss
> similar principles and guidelines to remote/armchair mapping?
>
> cheers,
>
> Maning Sambale (mobile)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Russ,

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 2:01 PM, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> Frederik Ramm writes:
>  > I think the tl;dr of both these postings could be: "Whenever you give
>  > someone a map by remote mapping, you also take something away from
> them."
>
> Western aid has a bad history of mostly aiding westerners. The one
> simple trick for avoiding that is to ask the locals "How can I help?"
>
> And if the locals say "We need a better map for where we live", then
> that addresses your concern.
>

 What about in the situations where locals would like to make their own map
but this is not financially feasible? If we are creating truly a free map
of the entire world it is important to figure out how not to just make a
map of the privileged. Should lack of access to internet and technology be
a reason someone can't contribute to this map?

I've worked with groups where we did on the ground mapping both through our
own digitizing or through that of others. Honestly in  most cases people
were happy to not have to trace every building themselves. They could then
simply put in the names/address information. Though we should think about
what types of features and how we do our tagging where culture/experience
can come in. For example what someone might think if as a track in their
experience may be a secondary road in others.

Frederik,

Diversity to me has never just been gender. Though it has been shown that
if you make a place welcoming to women it also makes it more inviting for
other underrepresented groups. Intersectional feminism is about equality
for everyone.

For those that missed it Kathleen Danielson gave an excellent talk about
some of these issues at SotM-US last week:
http://stateofthemap.us/improving-diversity-in-osm/

-Kate





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[OSM-talk] Official Launch of the Missing Maps Project Today

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Today the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team(HOT), American Red Cross, British
Red Cross and Médecins Sans Frontières/Doctors Without Borders (MSF UK) launch
the Missing Maps Project(1)(2). We are working together to map the most
vulnerable and poor areas in the world with the ethics of open, respectful
collaboration with importance placed on local access to the tools and data.
This is using methods focused on the use of OpenStreetMap for humanitarian
purposes that we have been developing over the past couple years.

I wanted to thank everyone in the OpenStreetMap community, really without
the huge growth in OpenStreetMap, the development of better and better
tools, and people coming together to help organize Missing Maps events this
would have never happened. It is an exciting day for the humanitarian side
of the project and I think the project as whole. For example the Guardian
is having a mapping event today to bring readers together to join Missing
Maps(3). For those interested in other links I've included quite a few at
the bottom(4)(5)(6).

If anyone is interested in contributing in some way for example hosting an
event please be in touch, we can get you started. Experienced OSM
contributors are what is really key to those sorts of things. If you just
want to map you can always join HOT on our Tasking Manager(7).

Thank you all,

-Kate



(1) http://www.missingmaps.org/
(2) http://tinyurl.com/kzazqm8
(3)
http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/nov/06/-sp-missing-maps-baraka-democratic-republic-congo-drc

(4)
http://blogs.redcross.org.uk/emergencies/2014/11/missing-maps-save-lives-click-mouse/

(5)
http://www.msf.org.uk/article/missing-maps-launch-unprecedented-collaboration-gets-underway

(6) https://www.mapbox.com/blog/mapping-missing-maps/
(7) tasks.hotosm.org
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Re: [OSM-talk] discussion: inclusion and alcohol

[Kate Chapman]

Recently I attended the Google Summer of Code 10 Year Reunion. All the
events there were set-up well for those that wished to drink and those that
didn't. I think the significant things that I noticed that really helped
were the following:

1. Good non-alcoholic options for those that didn't drink, also the events
weren't at a bar. One was at the San Jose Tech Museum and the other was at
a hotel.
2. Different spaces for people. Just meaning for example the Saturday event
night had live music and board games. If the live music was too loud though
there were places to retreat to not in the main ballroom. Of course this
was held at a hotel so there were multiple room options. The board games in
this case were really a nice touch for those drinking and non-drinking
alike that maybe aren't that comfortable making small talk.

Of course this is Google having a big event, so cost wasn't an issue. I do
think there are lower cost ways to do this though. Especially if a
conference is held at a university. In Washington DC when I lived there we
had daytime events on the weekends that were usually a combination of
mapping and editing data. Usually at a coffee shop or at one point outside
at the zoo. Another option is offices, bookstores, coffeeshops,
hackerspaces, community centers, libraries or other places that can be used
for gatherings.

Sometimes I find it funny having moved back from a country were the
majority of the people didn't really drink (Indonesia) to the United
States. There were way better non-alcohlic drinks in Indonesia as you might
suspect. Though there isn't a reason not to have a couple options.

Best,

-Kate

On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 7:05 PM, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:

> Richard,
>
> Yes, it's quite significant.
>
> There are many events, eg at SOTM-US where I've felt very
> uncomfortable both due to alcohol and noise.
>
> It's hard to find public places to hold social events that don't serve
> alcohol, though.
>
> While I do drink on occasion (once every 3-4 months), I often feel a
> bit uncomfortable with the alcohol culture of geek events in general.
>
> - Serge
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Missing Maps article in New Scientist

[Kate Chapman]

Hi John,

I'm not sure if the article originally mentioned HOT when you read it, but
it does now. Missing Maps is an initiative HOT is involved in, so these are
the very same processes we've been using in various countries over the past
4 years. Typically using Field Papers and JOSM as well as GPS units.

The plan is certainly to work in multiple places.

Best,

-Kate



On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:49 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> Interesting what sort of smart phones / process are they using and can we
> get some to other areas?
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 24 October 2014 12:28,  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> This week's New Scientist magazine (no 2992) has an article about the
>> Missing Maps project. You can read it in full on their website.
>>
>>
>> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429924.100-slumdog-mapmakers-fill-in-the-urban-blanks.html?full=true
>>
>> JC
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Clifford,

Just a couple comments on your resolutions.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 6:26 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 2:55 AM, Frederik Ramm 
> wrote:
> Two of the resolutions I'd like to see put to a debate and vote are 1)
> requiring the Board to conduct annual surveys of the membership and 2)
> develop an OSM vision. I am happy to help draft the resolutions but need
> help with the process.
>

I actually don't think it makes sense for the membership to approach things
by passing a bunch of resolutions requiring the board to do things. I think
certainly a drastic resolution like dismantling the entire board and
starting again is the type of resolution that would be something to come
from the membership.

Acting in the interest of the membership would be to conduct an annual
survey and develop a vision. Though really that would be something that
could happen as part of a fairly normal board strategic planning process.
I'd view this as being approached simply through the matter of the new
board finding common ground and better ways to approach the business of
running the OSMF. Meaning maybe a survey isn't the best way to determine
things, maybe there is another way. Rather than dictate the approach the
board should be tasked with doing what is in the best interest of the
organization. A part of this I would see as working with a facilitator and
others to educate board members in what generally it means from a legal and
operational standpoint to be on a board.

Best,

-Kate


Thanks,
> Clifford
>
>
> --
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Frederik,

I like this idea of having the mandate to redesign how the board works.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 10/23/2014 01:25 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> > Absolutely no force required. I would hope that the existing board
> > members would recognise the virtue of a fresh mandate and a clean start.
>
> A radical step, but I like it. I'd be more than happy to withdraw my
> candidacy if there was a spirit of rebooting. We wouldn't even need
> seven new candidates; we could simply elect a few and they could then
> add new un-elected board members as they like (article 79 in the AoA).
>

Interesting, the idea of maybe people elect who they think is best
qualified to reboot how the board rather than just someone they generally
agree with.

>
> Instead of rushing through such an unprecedented measure, we could also
> do it in a more orderly fashion: Have this year's AGM decide that the
> board should prepare to resign altogether at the next AGM, and prepare
> the election of a full new board. This event would then be known long in
> advance and people would have time to prepare their bids for a seat on
> the rebooted body. Independent of the actual legal powers of the AGM,
> certainly no board member could ignore such an express declaration by
> the very people they're serving.
>

I think this process could be outlined and set-up in such a way that it
could happen. Certainly with a year (okay perhaps less since we want people
to have plenty of time to be candidates). I think the board over the next
year would need to commit to a couple in person meetings and more rigorous
reporting that currently happens.

>
>
> Should we perhaps vote for "teams"? Just like a team can assemble and
> bid for holding a SotM, should we allow a team to bid for being the OSMF
> board for a year?
>

I think voting for teams would probably put us in a similar situation
around election time but it would be all or nothing. Though I am interested
in ways to help with cohesion. Perhaps part of it is simply an issue of
general exhaustion from serving on the OSMF board for too long right now.

-Kate


> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Sarah,

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:04 PM, Sarah Hoffmann  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:24:10PM -0700, Kate Chapman wrote:
> > I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do
> > think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF
> > membership isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors
> (I
> > frequently have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board
> > elections) are not necessarily the best to be on a board.
>
> This statement seems at odds with your complaint that members are not
> enough involved. The board elections are at the moment pretty much the
> only means for the OSMF members to voice their opinion, precisely by
> electing those candidates who are most likely to steer the OSMF in the
> direction the membership wants. I dare say that previous elections have
> shown a very clear trend towards electing people that are firmly routed
> in the community.
>

I did not complain that members are not enough involved. I said we don't
know what they want. I do not think there are enough members, but I'm not
sure we need specifically members to be involved.


>
> > It does not allow
> > the flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For
> > example most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or
> > legal matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is
> not
> > a bad thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way.
>
> Among all the problems I perceive with the board, lack of skills is very,
> very low on the list. What the board needs are foremost people
> that are able to work with others, that can listen and compromise.
> We need people who are really interested in bringing OSM forward
> instead of just following their own agenda.
>

I have previously said that we need people to run who can work with others.
I do also think having flexibility for different skills would be useful.
There seems to be a lack of people that can "work with others" that do run
for the board. Look at how often people end up resigning.

-Kate


>
> Accountants and lawyers can be hired.
>
>
> Sarah
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Simon

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:06 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

>
> Kate was complaining about the on boarding of new board members, she got
> at least an order of magnitude more support than Frederik and myself
> did, I don't think that there is any -accessible- board related
> institutional memory of note that is tied to board members. I do have to
> point to and thank Andy Robinson for his support in providing filing and
> mail services to the foundation for a very long time.
>

I suggest you rethink your choice of words about me "complaining". I was
suggesting there are better ways to onboard people to the board. Frankly I
was fine with my on boarding, simply because I've served on other boards
before so I understand generally how it works. That is not the case for
everyone else who becomes part of the OSMF Foundation board.

Perhaps the issues in the board is a lack of respect for each other.

-Kate

>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Serge,

What would you like the board to do to recognize the work of the
volunteers? Within HOT for example we've learned culturally people don't
necessarily even want the same type of recognition. I'm sorry I should have
sent you a message regarding the tirade, it was not empathic of me. I
honestly only read the first paragraph and then ignored it as I thought I
was supposed to do. From a human perspective however I should have talked
you.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:

> Simon,
>
> The DWG gets a lot of abuse thrown at us, and I think something in
> Kate's email really spoke to that idea of "fun". I've never considered
> the work I do for the DWG to be fun. I find it stressful and
> frustrating. Sometimes I find it sad, but never fun.
>

I think within volunteering there are a couple different aspects that cause
people to help. Fun is only one variable. If a job is really important for
an organization such as the DWG for example people will do it because it is
necessary, not because it is fun. In my example of working on a farm, there
were volunteers who would come do very not fun jobs because they knew they
were needed. There were also jobs that it was extremely hard to get people
to help.


>
> We may need a staff to do certain jobs, but whether we do decide to
> hire a staff or not, it'd be great if the volunteers we do have now
> got a bit more recognition for their hard work.
>

As I stated before I'm a bit unsure how to respond to this. I suppose one
thing we can say now is "everyone is a volunteer and not getting any
recognition!" Anyway, what I mean by that is I'm unsure exactly what people
want. I appreciate the working groups and the jobs that people do that I
would never have the patience to do. The fact that the servers run, we
don't get shutdown because of data licensing and all out edit wars don't
destroy the map is a testament to everyone that spends hours volunteering.

-Kate

>
> - Serge
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> >
> > Serge
> >
> > I want to apologize in case you missed explicit support from me (and the
> > board), it was likely just a miscommunication given that the person in
> > question lambasted essentially everybody that he had ever had contact
> > with and you in discussion suggested that we simply ignore him.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> > Am 22.10.2014 22:54, schrieb Serge Wroclawski:
> >> I want to actually apologize for one mis-statement. Michael Collinson
> >> from the MT actually was very good about this and one-on-one, board
> >> members who I speak with have been kind/supportive,
> >>
> >> I want to also point out that this is not about me getting recognition
> >> for my work on OSM, but about the general lack of support that the
> >> volunteers can get from the board, when just a pat on the back would
> >> be nice.
> >>
> >> The board is under incredible stress and strain, and they're
> >> volunteers like the rest of us, but there's a ton of work being done
> >> by groups like the Operations Team, the License Working Group, the
> >> Management Team, the Communications Working Group, the Data Working
> >> Group, etc. All of these folks deserve more support and recognition.
> >>
> >> - Serge
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski 
> wrote:
> >>> Hi Kate,
> >>>
> >>> Replies in-line.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Kate Chapman 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I
> do think
> >>>> however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF
> membership
> >>>> isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors (I
> frequently
> >>>> have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board
> elections)
> >>>> are not necessarily the best to be on a board. It does not allow the
> >>>> flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For
> example
> >>>> most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or legal
> >>>> matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is not
> a bad
> >>>> thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way.
> >>> I think you're connecting board membership with officer positions and
> >>> that doesn't need to be connected.
> >>>
> >>> It's possible (and often preferable) to have a board of peo

Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your thoughts, I have a few questions/comments inline.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:15 AM, Steve Coast  wrote:

>
>
> There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board
> bandwidth.
>
> The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to
> achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five
> minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an
> hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring
> all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to
> talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be
> 3 people. 5 at maximum.
>

I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do
think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF
membership isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors (I
frequently have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board
elections) are not necessarily the best to be on a board. It does not allow
the flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For
example most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or
legal matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is not
a bad thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way.

>
> Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most
> people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need
> to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings
> because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to
> meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about
> what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally
> figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to
> also achieve goals.
>

I completely agree regarding meeting in person and having a facilitator.
Would help lead to a more productive board. It is certainly impossible to
please everybody all the time, facilitators I've worked with in other
groups at least give the opportunity for more voices to be heard.


>
> The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff
> can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that
> volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but
> are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff
> isn’t about deprecating volunteer involvement, it’s about plugging the
> gaps. It’s not a perfect solution but the alternative is to rely on
> companies to do many of these things, and that really isn’t perfect either.
>

Yes, I think that paid staff can certainly help with some of the tasks.
Financing this is a different issue however. I used to work as paid staff
on an animal shelter for abused/neglected horses that had many volunteers
while attending uni. When there was 2 feet of snow in the middle of January
it was the paid staff usually out feeding the animals and shoveling the
manure. Volunteers were great for the "fun" tasks such as giving tours,
grooming horses and giving pony rides at fundraisers. We need to seriously
look at what the OSM equivalent is of "shoveling manure" and if it is
appropriate hire people to do it.


>
> In terms of the mechanics,
>
> 1. Change the mission statement of OSM to be something like “The world’s
> best addressable map”
>
While I think addresses are important, I'm not sure this is really a
rallying cry. Having tools that make it easier to import addresses and
collect them will certainly assist with the usability of the map.


> 2. The board figures out how to voluntarily shrink to 3-5 people, and,
> meets in person 2-4 times a year

3. Consulting with the community on exact roles and remit, hire 1-3 people
> [*]
>
This consultation process is important and I don't think one the community
can do on our own. There are plenty of groups that could assist, some of
which I've worked with directly before in other groups.

Regarding your [*] regarding funding I completely agree. If anything the
OSMF has turned away funding over the years, maybe not in as direct a way
as someone trying to hand them a check (though I could see that might have
happened) but communities with less impact on the world receive way more
funding easily than the OSMF currently does.

I do think at some point it would be good to "speak at length about
funding" often when discussing funding I feel there is not much knowledge
about the different ways that could be approached. Seeking funding for a
project such as OSM is not a new thing and there are many other groups we
could learn from. There are people that are willing to help if we simply
asked.

Best,

-Kate


> Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3
> years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better,
> we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would

Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

I felt I should speak up as the newest board member. I certainly think
there are things that OSMF could do to function better as well as the OSMF
Board. I think it can be difficult to move forward when everyone has very
strong feelings about the project, but they sometimes seem at odds with
each other. Often it can feel like the person with the most time at their
email box can simply wear everyone else down. I don't think OSM and the
OSMF are an exception to this though.

One issue is we really have no idea what the OSMF membership wants. We know
what some vocal people who write English well want. What a lot of
communities do to determine this is have a yearly community survey. Simply
voting for board members itself doesn't give any idea what people generally
want. For example last year I received the most votes in the board
election. Does that mean I have "brand recognition", people liked my
manifesto or simply there were people that thought only men shouldn't be on
the OSMF board? We have no idea. A community survey is one way we could
start to get a better grip on the desires for the OSMF. Of course we still
would be bound to the opinions of only those that like to answer surveys.

Another difficulty is there is no board primer. When you join the OSMF
board you mostly just jump in. One of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
(HOT) board members began a board primer for HOT after they joined HOT's
board. This was to help with this very issue. Part of it is just helping
people to understand what it means to be on a board. How many people that
join the OSMF board have never served on any board at all?

Frederik's manifesto isn't really anything I can specifically disagree with
though I suspect if Frederik and I were to debate the items we will have
very different approaches to them. To me that is the major sticking point
generally within the OSMF. We don't have a great way to find common ground.
I hope this year we will have an in person meeting, not everyone is even in
agreement that meeting in person helps with cohesion. So you can see that
much work is to be done. It is difficult for me to read some statements
about problems in the board without feeling that they are jabs at other
board members without naming names. This is a sign of what we really need
is trust, not necessarily agreement, but trust.

While I haven't really done much in the past year, I hope that we can find
ways to be more effective. I think simply publicly saying "there is a
problem" is a good start.

Best,

-Kate

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Stefan Keller  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I wonder why we're discussing here everything else but what Frederik
> mentioned in his manifesto and in this reply above.
>
> Richard voted that the board should stand down.
> I can't oversea the situation but I tend to give our colleages a
> second chance to fix things.
> I do that also knowing that OSMF is young with few members, many of
> them being also members in WGs.
>
> On 2014-10-21 15:47 GMT+02:00, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> > ...
> > In short, what I'd like to see is (a) more people joining OSMF, and (b)
> > at least some these people actually following and commenting on what the
> > board does, or doesn't do, in their name.
>
> To me, actions speak louder than words.
> So, I decided to join OSMF these days.
> And I propose to add the following to the board meeting agenda:
> * Setting up a clearer modus operandi of the board and working groups
> * Making the board meeting agenda publicly available
> * Advancing trademark policy
> * Setting up a plan to get more corporate members
> (actually, these points are just taken from Frederik's plea).
>
> Yours, S.
>
> 2014-10-22 0:05 GMT+02:00 Simon Poole :
> >
>
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] Missing Maps article in The Guardian

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for sharing this here. If you are interested in hosting your own
Missing Maps event we'd love to support. Having experienced OSM mappers
really is key for helping get new people started. Thanks to all the London
OSM people who have been assisting in the series of mapathons that have
already happened there!

Best,

-Kate

On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:30 AM, Ben Pollinger 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I spotted this yesterday:
>
>
> http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/oct/06/missing-maps-human-genome-project-unmapped-cities
>
> It ends with: "Guardian Cities will host a Missing Maps party next month
> to map an African city. Get involved: cit...@theguardian.com"
>
> Regards,
> Ben
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] HOT Mapping thoughts

[Kate Chapman]

Hi John,

Low bandwidth could effect someone updating their data. Often though the
problem is the specific tools they are using. The update rates on many of
the applications that allow offline data can vary.

Thanks,

-Kate


On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 1:13 PM, john whelan  wrote:

> Unfortunately it was a passing conversation at a local OSM meet up in
> Ottawa and I'm not even sure I'd recognise the young gentleman again.  I
> just thought I'd tag it as it seemed odd to me and if it was the case then
> perhaps something could be done.
>
> Probably with low bandwidth availability it could have been some one was
> using off line data?
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
> On 5 August 2014 15:54, Kate Chapman  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> It might be helpful to know which tools the person was using. Perhaps it
>> was one that wasn't updated very often.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -Kate
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:03 AM, john whelan 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for your input, that was roughly in line with my expectations
>>> but for some reason didn't seem to match the person's experience in the
>>> field, it could have been some time ago.
>>>
>>> Thanks John
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3 August 2014 12:40, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> In general, the tiles are updated to the minute. Looking at my edits
>>>> this morning after a few minutes, tiles were refreshed both for the OSM and
>>>> Humanitarian layers. I press F5 to refresh the screen and obtain the new
>>>> tiles in the navigator.
>>>>
>>>> For OSMAnd, updates may vary. For major activations such as Ebola, we
>>>> ask contributors to provide daily updates. For Ebola, see
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2014_West_Africa_Ebola_Response#Offline_Navigation_on_Small_Devices
>>>> For custom OSMAnd updates, see
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2014_West_Africa_Ebola_Response#Custom_Android.2FOSMAnd_offline_file
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>>   --
>>>>  *De :* john whelan 
>>>> *À :* OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
>>>> *Envoyé le :* Dimanche 3 août 2014 12h28
>>>> *Objet :* [OSM-talk] HOT Mapping thoughts
>>>>
>>>> I was talking to someone who worked with one of the Agencies that used
>>>> the data in the field and he was saying how great it was.
>>>>
>>>> However he said that the map started to appear after three of four days
>>>> which struck me as a little odd.
>>>>
>>>> I understood HOT starts very quickly within hours and since we have
>>>> mappers around the world working odd hours there should be something
>>>> happening very quickly in the database.
>>>>
>>>> However the rendering means that tiles have to get refreshed, data has
>>>> to be packaged for OSMAND etc.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way the tiles and packaging for HOT areas given priority and
>>>> done more frequently or is this already being done?
>>>>
>>>> I also note that in Haiti a sensefly eBee UAV has been used to collect
>>>> aerial imaging for OSM mapping.  I assume that the procedures have been
>>>> worked out to use this device.  Could one of the partner agencies UN, or
>>>> someone with a bit of cash, be approached to arrange for one to be part of
>>>> the initial deployment when a new area to be HOT mapped is decided on?
>>>>
>>>> Many Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Cheerio John
>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] HOT Mapping thoughts

[Kate Chapman]

Hi John,

It might be helpful to know which tools the person was using. Perhaps it
was one that wasn't updated very often.

Best,

-Kate


On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:03 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> Thank you for your input, that was roughly in line with my expectations
> but for some reason didn't seem to match the person's experience in the
> field, it could have been some time ago.
>
> Thanks John
>
>
> On 3 August 2014 12:40, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> In general, the tiles are updated to the minute. Looking at my edits this
>> morning after a few minutes, tiles were refreshed both for the OSM and
>> Humanitarian layers. I press F5 to refresh the screen and obtain the new
>> tiles in the navigator.
>>
>> For OSMAnd, updates may vary. For major activations such as Ebola, we ask
>> contributors to provide daily updates. For Ebola, see
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2014_West_Africa_Ebola_Response#Offline_Navigation_on_Small_Devices
>> For custom OSMAnd updates, see
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2014_West_Africa_Ebola_Response#Custom_Android.2FOSMAnd_offline_file
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>   --
>>  *De :* john whelan 
>> *À :* OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
>> *Envoyé le :* Dimanche 3 août 2014 12h28
>> *Objet :* [OSM-talk] HOT Mapping thoughts
>>
>> I was talking to someone who worked with one of the Agencies that used
>> the data in the field and he was saying how great it was.
>>
>> However he said that the map started to appear after three of four days
>> which struck me as a little odd.
>>
>> I understood HOT starts very quickly within hours and since we have
>> mappers around the world working odd hours there should be something
>> happening very quickly in the database.
>>
>> However the rendering means that tiles have to get refreshed, data has to
>> be packaged for OSMAND etc.
>>
>> Is there a way the tiles and packaging for HOT areas given priority and
>> done more frequently or is this already being done?
>>
>> I also note that in Haiti a sensefly eBee UAV has been used to collect
>> aerial imaging for OSM mapping.  I assume that the procedures have been
>> worked out to use this device.  Could one of the partner agencies UN, or
>> someone with a bit of cash, be approached to arrange for one to be part of
>> the initial deployment when a new area to be HOT mapped is decided on?
>>
>> Many Thanks
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Organizational mapping policy

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Paul,

I'm curious how HOT projects which are mentioned relate to this. What I
mean is we frequently train other non-governmental organizations (NGOs),
governments and universities in OSM. The proposed guidelines read to me
that people would have to declare that they were being paid to map. A
frequent scenario is we find a group that could benefit from OSM mapping,
for example a civil society group (CSO) and show them how OSM works. They
may then decide to incorporate it into one of their own projects. Some of
the CSOs have a mix of volunteers and staff, so would both types of
participants need to declare what they were doing?

Frequently people are more being paid to provide training than to map
directly in OSM. Is this another scenario?

Should HOT contractors/staff then declare that they are being paid to train
people in OSM? I don't think using separate accounts is a great idea for me
personally I would have no idea when I should use one account versus an
another. I would be perfectly happy to declare that I work for HOT on my
user page, which it already does(1).

Thanks,

-Kate

(1) http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/wonderchook


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 6:44 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> We have more and more organizations and businesses mapping in OSM.
> Multiple organizations have been conducting paid editing in Europe and
> the US. This generally comes to light *after* complaints are made - with
> the company usually not identifying who they are, what their goals are,
> and what they want, beforehand. There have also been difficulties
> determining what has been mapped on behalf of an organization.
>
> We will likely see more of this type of editing in the future, and while
> not necessarily bad, there are differences between it and normal
> editing. Recent events in a project similar to OpenStreetMap - Wikipedia
> - have demonstrated that the participation of organizations in data
> editing can occasionally lead to misunderstandings or disharmony in the
> project, particularly where a lack of transparency is involved.
>
> For this reason the DWG is considering if it is necessary to issue
> guidelines for organizational editing. Some previous discussion is at
> http://lists.osm.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2013-November/002344.html
>
> There are some activities we do not want to cover in the guidelines
>
> - Unorganized editing by employees, e.g. a shop owner adding their shop
>   or nearby details to the map
>
> - Editors mapping in response to a contest or similar where the contest
>   organizer does not have the power to require them to edit
>
> - Individuals who, on their own accord, decide to participate in an
>   organised effort or challenge, like local mapping parties, Mapathons,
>   HOT projects, etc
>
> Some possible guideline requirements could involve
>
> - Disclosing those who are directing them (e.g. employers or who they
>   are contracting for) on the users page
>
> - Creating a wiki page with links to user pages of users mapping under
>   an organization's direction
>
> - Requiring those working on broader projects to communicate and get
>   feedback from the community before starting
>
> - Requiring disclosure of proprietary third-party sources used.
>   Organizations may have data from third parties that they can legally
>   use when contributing to OSM, but aren't able to directly show others
>   the data
>
> - Maintaining separate accounts if doing both personal and organizational
>   editing
>
> The extent of editing activities covered is something else that needs to
> be discussed.
>
> Some types of activities that *could* be covered are
>
> - Teachers requiring their students to edit OSM as part of a course
>
> - Consultants editing for multiple clients
>
> - Being required to edit as part of an employment relationship
>
> SEO spammers would be covered by this policy, but are not the target.
> They would ignore it, so we'll just end up using the existing tools
> of reverting and blocking.
>
> Paul Norman
> For the Data Working Group
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] ReMAPTCHA Demo BETA 0.2 online! (Was: Hate captchas!!!!)

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Stefan,

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 2:45 AM, Stefan Keller  wrote:

> Hi Kate
>
> 2014-04-28 7:40 GMT+02:00 Kate Chapman :
>
> > I think there would need to be audio challenges.
> > There are projects for helping make OSM accessible to people who are
> vision impaired, this includes information on the OSM wiki.
>>
>>
> I understand. But audio is a complete different technology and our project
> wanted to focus on visual clues.
>

Sorry I should have been more specific. I just meant that when/if it was
integrated into the various OSM tools it would be important to make sure an
audio tool was also available.

Thanks,

-Kate

>
> Yours, Stefan
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] ReMAPTCHA Demo BETA 0.2 online! (Was: Hate captchas!!!!)

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Stefan,

On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Stefan Keller  wrote:

> 2014-04-27 21:08 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
> > I think a bigger situation is that I don't see how this could possibly
> be ADA compliant:
> > How does a blind person pass?
>
> We could add audio challenges - but that's not needed since the context
> and target sites where ReMAPTCHA is designed for, are geospatial websites
> and graphic editors.
>

I think there would need to be audio challenges. There are projects for
helping make OSM accessible to people who are vision impaired, this
includes information on the OSM wiki.

>
> -S.
>
>>
>
> 2014-04-27 21:08 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson :
>
>
>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:21 AM, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
>>
>>> I'm worried about bots still having a very high chance of sucess. With
>>> two fairly-legible words in the image and a chalenge asking me to
>>> write either one of the words or both, a bot still has 33% chance of
>>> success if answering randomly, wich is high enough that bot authors
>>> won't even bother trying to smartly interpret the map.
>>>
>>
>> I think a bigger situation is that I don't see how this could possibly be
>> ADA compliant:  How does a blind person pass?
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OKFestival in Berlin-- anyone proposing a session?

[Kate Chapman]

Hey Kathleen,

I didn't propose a session but I'm on the conference advisory board
and mentioned a few OSM speakers as possibilities. I certainly think
people should submit sessions.

Hopefully I'll see you there!

Best,

-Kate

On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Kathleen Danielson
 wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just ran across the Open Knowledge Festival, which is happening in Berlin,
> July 15-17. Are people planning to (or have you already) submitted
> OpenStreetMap sessions? I will probably be submitting a session proposal or
> two.
>
> KD
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for Developers Presentation

[Kate Chapman]

Thanks all! I ended up given a brief explanation of what OSM is, the
data model, resources developers might be interested in and then
actually just showed people how to edit.

The majority of the time just ended up being Q&A regarding specific
ideas people had for projects.

Best,

-Kate



On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Graham Jones  wrote:
> Kate,
> I put together a little explanation of the rendering side of OSM a few years
> ago:
> http://www.slideshare.net/jones139/rendering-openstreetmap-data-using-mapnik.
> It might be out of date now though!
>
> Graham.
>
>
> On 21 February 2014 18:38, Nick Whitelegg 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Kate,
>>
>> I gave this talk at a British Computer Society meeting last year:
>>
>> http://www.free-map.org.uk/~nick/OSM_0313.odp
>>
>> Not hugely in-depth but might be of some use.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> -Kate Chapman  wrote: -
>> To: osm 
>> From: Kate Chapman 
>> Date: 21/02/2014 08:00AM
>> Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM for Developers Presentation
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm giving a talk this weekend at the Jakarta Python meet-up. I was
>> wondering if anyone has a good "Intro to OSM for Developers" talk. I'm
>> putting one together myself, but I'm looking to see what things others
>> cover. Basically I want to give an overview of resources for
>> developers, this isn't really a workshop just a 20 minute
>> presentation.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Kate
>>
>> ___
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>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Graham Jones
> Hartlepool, UK.

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[OSM-talk] OSM for Developers Presentation

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

I'm giving a talk this weekend at the Jakarta Python meet-up. I was
wondering if anyone has a good "Intro to OSM for Developers" talk. I'm
putting one together myself, but I'm looking to see what things others
cover. Basically I want to give an overview of resources for
developers, this isn't really a workshop just a 20 minute
presentation.

Thanks,

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Summer of Code 2014

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Another thing to note is part of the application is our ideas page. So
to be accepted we need a great ideas page. Unfortunately the timeline
on this is short as the appliication is due on Friday.

It is especially helpful to mention ways they can contribute to
already existing OSM projects. Often we've had project that were brand
new and I'm not sure we really succeeding in bringing many students
into the community that way.

Best,

-Kate

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> Hi everyone!
>
> Kate and I are working on an application for OpenStreetMap to join the
> Summer of Code again in 2014. We've participated for several years, and I'm
> looking forward to a successful year.
>
> Should we be accepted, we'll need some great ideas to attract the best
> students. If you've got an idea for something that could be tackled by an
> undergraduate student in a few months during the Summer, please head over to
> the ideas page and add it:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2014/Project_Ideas
>
> Again, if you have great ideas, please add them so we can get great
> students.
>
> If you're near a university, I encourage you to recruit for us. Students
> will be paid to do great work, so track down your favorite students and
> remind them to apply when student applications open up later this year.
>
> Thanks! Feel free to send me an e-mail with questions,
> Ian

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[OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

This is just a reminder that the process of students submitting ideas for
Google Summer of Code is ongoing. If you are interested in potentially
mentoring or helping read through the proposals please get in touch.

Best,

-Kate
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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code Time Again! (Need Project Ideas)

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

This is just a reminder that we are still brainstorming Google Summer
of Code ideas.

Are there specific projects that are interested in proposing projects
and adopting students? I attending the GSoC Mentors summit last year
and a lot of the really successful projects had more than an
individual helping the student with questions/etc.

Any specific ideas as far as that goes?

Best,

-Kate

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Kate Chapman  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm one of the organization administrators for Google Summer of Code
> (GSoC) this year. As a reminder or for those not aware GSoC is a
> program organized by Google to pay students stipends to work on
> projects within various open source projects. Organizations apply to
> be accepted and then are allocated students based on those students
> proposals.
>
> One of the very important aspects of this is projects coming up with
> potential project ideas. That is where I need your help.
>
> I've created a template page where projects can be added:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2013/Project_Ideas
>
> If you would like to see what was brainstormed in past years that is
> available here:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Google_Summer_of_Code_ideas
>
> Also if you are interested in getting involved in GSoC in other ways
> such as mentoring and reviewing student proposals please let me know.
>
> Best,
>
> -Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Geocode trademark

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Don,

So you are volunteering as an expert witness? =D

And yes sadly the situation is silly, but difficult to deal with as
with the OSMF being a small organization with little in the way of a
legal fund.

Best,

-Kate

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 1:30 AM, Donald Cooke  wrote:
> If anyone gets around to challenging GEOCODE, Inc's trademark claim, a
> couple of quick searches will find that the term has been in use in GIS
> literature for ~45 years.  For example, I organized a working session on
> Geocoding in 1971.  I put together a collection of papers called
> "GEOCODING-71" which Google books shows available in nine libraries in the
> USA and Canada. At the bottom of page 54, there's even a reference to a
> commercial product called "GEOCODE".  I really wish these people would do
> something useful with their lives and talents rather than annoy others with
> groundless legal actions.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism?

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Mulone,

This UN Dispatch article(1) mentions some of the main streets in
Jalalabad, Afghanistan having "joke" names. Note this has since been
fixed by those same mappers.

Hameed who is mentioned in the article also spoke at last years State
of the Map Conference.

-Kate

(1) http://www.undispatch.com/how-afghan-mappers-punked-apple

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Mulone  wrote:
> (Apologies for cross-posting)
>
> Hi all,
> I am an academic researcher and I am studying the issue of vandalism in
> OpenStreetMap
> (see  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism
>    for a general discussion).
> I am very interested in the motivations that lead users to vandalise
> OpenStreetMap.
> Can you point me to specific instances of vandalism that have an
> *identifiable reason*?
>
> Examples might include:
> - People changing borders of countries in conflict zones
> - People renaming famous places with their name/interests
> - Companies damaging data to prevent competition (such as the alleged
> vandalism by Google’s contractors)
> - People damaging symbolic places (e.g. deletion of the White House or the
> Eiffel Tower)
> - People damaging data to bully locals/other users
> - People creating imaginary places
> - People who are frustrated with the editing tools and start using them to
> damage data
>
> Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences!
> Mulone
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Interesting-cases-of-vandalism-tp5750346.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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[OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code Time Again! (Need Project Ideas)

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

I'm one of the organization administrators for Google Summer of Code
(GSoC) this year. As a reminder or for those not aware GSoC is a
program organized by Google to pay students stipends to work on
projects within various open source projects. Organizations apply to
be accepted and then are allocated students based on those students
proposals.

One of the very important aspects of this is projects coming up with
potential project ideas. That is where I need your help.

I've created a template page where projects can be added:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2013/Project_Ideas

If you would like to see what was brainstormed in past years that is
available here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Google_Summer_of_Code_ideas

Also if you are interested in getting involved in GSoC in other ways
such as mentoring and reviewing student proposals please let me know.

Best,

-Kate

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[OSM-talk] HOT Positions in Cap-Haitien

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

HOT is about to start a big project in Haiti in March. We are looking
for people to help as junior and senior field coordinators. What does
that mean? We need people to teach OpenStreetMap data collection
(GPS/Walking Papers/Editing in JOSM) and to provide other related
technical support as need. We are both looking for people to lead
parts of the project and people to assist.

It is seldom that HOT has paid work for people with just a few years
work experience. This is a great way to get started with us if you are
already well versed in OSM.

We are ideally looking for people that speak both French and English
(also speaking Haitian Creole would be a major plus). Ideally you'd
already be involved in volunteer work with us somehow, but exceptions
are possible.

Senior position: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/hot_senior_position_CHM_haiti
Junior position: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/hot_junior_position_CHM_haiti

Just a reminder that the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team is a
non-profit organization that uses OpenStreetMap for disaster planning
and response.

Best,

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti.

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Shawn,

There is an active OpenStreetMap community in Haiti. (Some of them
read this list).

I've cc'd that list if you'd like to get involved there is probably
the best place.

Last year there was a project in St. Marc that might be of interest:

http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-06-24_return_to_the_training_in_saint_marc_haiti_mixing_generic_and_specific_teaching_a

http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-04-24_coming_to_a_close_in_saint_marc

Best,

-Kate

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:13 AM, Shawn Dash  wrote:
> Dear OpenStreetMap friends of Haiti:
>
> A few days ago headlines about Haiti were all about the 3-year earthquake
> anniversary.   Is that really all Haiti is?!
>
> I love telling my friends that there are many businesses in Haiti and that
> the country actually is flourishing.And, again, people just do not
> believe.
>
> I am thinking that it would be really wonderful to create a map of the small
> businesses in Haiti -- to show and prove that it is not just tents and
> cholera.
>
> Let's begin a conversation about how life goes on in Haiti, how the county
> is living and breathing, and how Haiti is actually standing on it's own and
> moving forward.
>
> The headlines about Haiti should be the beauty and the life, not the
> destruction and the aid!
>
> I tried to find a map of small businesses in Haiti -- and all I could find
> was something in Foursquare that's nice, but it is mainly in the richer
> areas and it is more about night-clubs and drinking and not really the small
> businesses.
>
> I think it would be really interesting to GPS tag as many barbershops in
> Haiti as possible, since, the barbershop -- in it's own way -- is a sign
> that life goes on in Haiti, and that there is indeed a local economy.   As
> we both know, there's thousands of barbershops, everywhere, even in
> containers!
>
> I am wondering if, as you are geo-mapping and geo-tagging, if there is
> anyway to start a project show I can show my friends that Haiti is not just
> disease and famine -- there is very much a living life, too!
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thank you!
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Kate Chapman]

I also would like to echo that it is a good idea.

Perhaps if people don't like the hammer/bubble it would make sense to
have a logo design contest or something. Personally I think anything
that is simple and appealing and makes it clear to people can click on
it is great.

Best,

-Kate

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:42 AM, yvecai  wrote:
> This is a very nice idea!
> But before discussing the logo, maybe a simple redesign of the osm logo in a
> smaller version allowing readibility but keeping the magnifier and the map
> would save lot of talk.
> I'm no expert, but somebody with real talent could make something in that
> idea: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Yvecai/logo
>
> Yves
>
>
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Combining Creative Commons Licensed Data with ODbL and Redistributing

[Kate Chapman]

I don't believe that would apply to a derivative work, I think that
just applies to the work itself.

I'm interested to hear other interpretations though.

-Kate

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Anthony  wrote:
> Which version of CC-BY?  3.0 contains a pretty substantive anti-DRM
> clause:  "You may not impose any effective technological measures on
> the Work that restrict the ability of a recipient of the Work from You
> to exercise the rights granted to that recipient under the terms of
> the License."

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[OSM-talk] What to call OSM data?

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

So I met with a group looking to link OSM data to other data. Meaning
have a link that says this village in OSM is equivalent to this
village in these 3 other datasets. Part of this process involves
having metadata for everything.

The people I met with asked me a question I hadn't been asked before:
"What do people prefer the OSM data be described as in the metadata?"

So for example crowdsourced infromation, volunteered geographic
information, non-authoritative data, or something else?

Does anyone have suggestions or a preference? I had said I would at
least bring it up on this mailing list for more feedback.

Best,

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Event in Vienna/AT: Int'l UN Crowdsourced Mapping

[Kate Chapman]

I applied to go as well.

The original meeting I believe was focused more on disaster response,
where as this one has a preparedness aspect to it as well.

I'm hoping to share HOT's work and discuss the availability of imagery
before a crisis happens, instead of the current situation where there
usually needs to be an event before imagery is released.

-Kate

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Michael Collinson  wrote:
> I've signed up. - Mike
>
> On 19 Oct 2012, at 18:45, Alex Barth  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2012, at 12:39 PM, Mikel Maron  wrote:
>>
>>> Nicolas and Schuyler attended last year for HOT. I'm not sure if we've 
>>> identified someone to represent HOT there yet.
>>>
>>> Main topic of discussion (for HOT at least) is greater sharing of imagery 
>>> in responses; as well as use of OSM among UN partners.
>>>
>>> And a nice touch, UN Spider has switched to OSM.
>>> http://www.un-spider.org/un-spider-world
>>
>> Ha, that's awesome.
>>
>> I just signed up, not sure I can go though. Today is the last day for 
>> registrations.
>>
>>>
>>> -Mikel
>>>
>>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>> From: Alex Barth 
>>> To: OSM Talk 
>>> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 11:19 AM
>>> Subject: [OSM-talk] Event in Vienna/AT: Int'l UN Crowdsourced Mapping
>>>
>>>
>>> Who's planning to attend? Looks interesting, but not sure I will be able to 
>>> travel.
>>>
>>> Event: Dec 3-5 2012 / Application deadline: Oct 19, 2012
>>>
>>> United Nations International Expert Meeting on Crowdsource Mapping for 
>>> Disaster Risk Management and Emergency Response
>>>
>>> http://www.un-spider.org/crowdsource-mapping
>>>
>>> Alex Barth
>>> http://twitter.com/lxbarth
>>> tel (+1) 202 250 3633
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> Alex Barth
>> http://twitter.com/lxbarth
>> tel (+1) 202 250 3633
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Join HOT in Indonesia for a Few Weeks as a Tech Trainer

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Frans,

Could you explain what you are thinking?

-Kate

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Frans Thamura  wrote:
> can our team be part of this?
>
> you know who are we and what we are doing?
>
> F
>
> On 10/10/12, Kate Chapman  wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Originally I put this out to the HOT list, but I figured I'm missing
>> some people that way.
>>
>> As you may know there is a team of 8 OpenStreetMap trainers in
>> Indonesia right now. This team leads workshops and provides technical
>> support around OpenStreetMap use for disaster risk reduction around
>> the country. The secondary component is continued training to become
>> an increasingly experienced team of OpenStreetMap contributors.
>>
>> So far much of this training is coming from just a few of us (myself
>> and Joseph Reeves). To
>> expose everyone to different tech skills, different teaching styles,
>> and to mix things up we'd like to have a another person join us for 3
>> weeks in November. There are a variety of skills we are interested in
>> and suggestions are also welcome.
>>
>> So far ideas are:
>>
>> General programming in Python, especially with QGIS
>> SQL Queries/PostGIS
>> Setting up WMS Servers
>> TileMill
>> Web Server Configuration
>> Sharing maps on WordPress/Drupal/other web tools
>> Advanced QGIS Topics
>> Processing of Imagery with open source tools
>> Git
>>
>> For more information look here on HOT's website:
>> http://hot.openstreetmap.org/get_involved/openstreetmap_technical_trainer
>> and if you have questions ideas feel free to contact me.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -Kate
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Frans Thamura (曽志胜)
> Shadow Master and Lead Investor
> Meruvian.
> Integrated Hypermedia Java Solution Provider.
>
> Mobile: +628557888699
> Blog: http://blogs.mervpolis.com/roller/flatburger (id)
>
> FB: http://www.facebook.com/meruvian
> TW: http://www.twitter.com/meruvian / @meruvian
> Website: http://www.meruvian.org
>
> "We grow because we share the same belief."

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[OSM-talk] Join HOT in Indonesia for a Few Weeks as a Tech Trainer

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Originally I put this out to the HOT list, but I figured I'm missing
some people that way.

As you may know there is a team of 8 OpenStreetMap trainers in
Indonesia right now. This team leads workshops and provides technical
support around OpenStreetMap use for disaster risk reduction around
the country. The secondary component is continued training to become
an increasingly experienced team of OpenStreetMap contributors.

So far much of this training is coming from just a few of us (myself
and Joseph Reeves). To
expose everyone to different tech skills, different teaching styles,
and to mix things up we'd like to have a another person join us for 3
weeks in November. There are a variety of skills we are interested in
and suggestions are also welcome.

So far ideas are:

General programming in Python, especially with QGIS
SQL Queries/PostGIS
Setting up WMS Servers
TileMill
Web Server Configuration
Sharing maps on WordPress/Drupal/other web tools
Advanced QGIS Topics
Processing of Imagery with open source tools
Git

For more information look here on HOT's website:
http://hot.openstreetmap.org/get_involved/openstreetmap_technical_trainer
and if you have questions ideas feel free to contact me.

Best,

-Kate

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[OSM-talk] Creative Local Outreach and Communities

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

State of the Map US is this weekend. I'm giving a talk titled, "Local
Outreach, Local Communities, World Map."

Why am I coming to you? Well do you have a different approach to
getting people involved? Maybe we haven't heard about it because it is
local. Are there things that you've tried that worked great in other
places but not at home? What advice would you give to someone that
wants to start getting more people mapping locally?

I have my own ideas about this, but I want to hear yours.

Also imagine an audience where a lot of people aren't necessarily
involved in the broader OSM community.  So something that might seem
common to you, might not be to them.

Thanks for your help!

(I promise a blog post afterwards so there is a summary of the information)

-Kate

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[OSM-talk] Wiki Translation

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

An effort has begun to translate parts of the OpenStreetMap wiki into
Bahasa Indonesia.

My question is how does a link to the translation end up in the
"Available Languages" section at the top of each page of the wiki?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wiki_Translation#Wiki_translations_HOWTO
it states "Note: due to technical reasons (limitations in the parser
functions defined in the MediaWiki software showing this wiki), not
all pages with existing translations will show by default in the list
of available languages, but only languages for major languages of the
world." Is this why Bahasa Indonesia doesn't show at the top when a
page is translated? I think it is a pretty major language.

Best,

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Street/POI Index from OSM data

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Alex,

Specifically for Indonesia there is an export tool available here:
http://hot-export.geofabrik.de/ (It also works for Haiti and Africa).

The way it works is you upload your JOSM preset and it will spit out
the data you want in a variety of formats. CSV is not one of them but
shp is and if you take the dbf file from the shhp it would work
basically the same.

-Kate

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Alex Rollin  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am rather new to OSM data.  I've enjoyed doing edits on the map and now
> I'd like to start learning how to arrange it on a printed page.
>
> I know there are lots and lots of tools out there.
>
> Could I receive a few recommendations for getting some text data out?
>
> I was thinking I might need to use Osmosis.  Some pointers would be very
> helpful.
>
> I would like to:
>
> Select a bounding box (I can produce lat/lon)
> Get a list of street names'
> Output a CSV file (or other text file)
>
>
> Select a bounding box (I can produce lat/lon)
> Get a list of POIs
> Output a CSV file (or other text file)
>
> For these I would also like to be able to get any other attributes/keys like
> description text or other things.
>
> Thank you to each of you for all the work you do!
>
> Alex
>
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[OSM-talk] HOT Internship Roster

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Perhaps most people interested in this are already on the HOT mailing
list. We are putting together a roster for internships right now:
http://hot.openstreetmap.org/join_the_internship_roster_for_field_deployment

What does this mean? Over the past 2 years HOT has had people come
with us on trips to Haiti, Indonesia, and Senegal to help volunteer
and learn what HOT does. Typically on these trips we cover housing,
travel, and insurance. It is great opportunity to get involved in
HOT's field work.

Typically we've recruited for these internships on a case by case
basis. Meaning when an opportunity comes up we post it to our website.
To ease the burden of this process a bit, we are currently creating a
roster.

If you are interested please apply. And to get more involved with HOT
join our mailing list: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Best,

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Indonesia Coastline - fixup needed

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

We put up some editing tips on OpenStreetMap.or.id (1) and are sharing
them around.

Thanks for the feedback!

-Kate

(1) http://openstreetmap.or.id/tips-editing/

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 05, 2012 at 03:01:33PM -0700, Paul Norman wrote:
>> I happened to notice the coastline for an entire island in South Sulawesi,
>> Indonesia is missing.
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-6.1219&lon=120.4563&zoom=14&layers=M
>>
>> There also seem to be a lot of primary roads and few lower classifications.
>>
>> This actually may not be redaction related.
>>
>> I'm sending this in the hope that an armchair mapper can trace it or a
>> suitable source can be found. The imagery isn't great.
>
> Before the redaction period I have several times fixed large pieces of
> coastline in Indonesia that were totally missing or doubled up or otherwise
> broken. I never tried to track down whats happening there, but maybe there
> is an inexperienced mapper creating those problems again and again.
>
> Jochen
> --
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Indonesia Coastline - fixup needed

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Paul,

The coastline was there previously, so it might be an accidental
deletion problem. We are currently looking.

As far as the road classification that is something we are working on
having better documentation in Indonesian. I don't think the
classification has anything to do with the redaction it is more an
issue of people being new and just needing some help.

Thanks,

-Kate

Hi Paul

Garis pantai sudah tersedia sebelumnya, jadi kemungkinan masalahnya
adalah terhapus secara tidak sengaja. Kami sedang menyeledikinya.

Klasifikasi jalan merupakan sesuatu yang sedang kami kerjakan yaitu
memiliki dokumentasi yang lebih baik dalam Bahasa Indonesia. Saya
tidak berpikir bahwa klasifikasi memiliki hubungan dengan perubahan
lisensi, masalah ini lebih kepada pengguna baru dan membutuhkan
beberapa bantuan.

-Kate



On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:01 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> I happened to notice the coastline for an entire island in South Sulawesi,
> Indonesia is missing.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-6.1219&lon=120.4563&zoom=14&layers=M
>
> There also seem to be a lot of primary roads and few lower classifications.
>
> This actually may not be redaction related.
>
> I'm sending this in the hope that an armchair mapper can trace it or a
> suitable source can be found. The imagery isn't great.
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Redaction finished already?

[Kate Chapman]

I would be curious to have an estimate as to when imports might be
allowed again.

There is a university I'm working with that would like to import data
that they collected. So yes technically it is an import, but then
their intent would be to now update the data directly in OSM rather
than the way they have previously been doing it.

This isn't technically "urgent" but there is updating they'd like to do soon.

Thanks,

-Kate

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:17 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
> Am 25.07.2012 21:50, schrieb Jan Kučera:
>> Ok so are imports allowed again?
>>
>>
>
> Imports are by their intrinsic nature never urgent (it is not as if the
> 3rd party data is going to vanish if you don't import it today). I would
> strongly suggest doing something more useful, like helping with
> remapping Australia or Poland, than wasting time on something that can
> easily wait.
>
> Simon
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Indonesia Imagery Blackout

[Kate Chapman]

Alex,

So that is just where the imagery ends. It is pretty common to have
stripes like that.

-Kate

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Alex Rollin  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Alex Rollin  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Kate Chapman  wrote:
>>>
>>> Alex,
>>>
>>> Could you send a link to the area in OpenStreetMap? You can do that by
>>> zooming to the area and clicking the "View" button again. Then copy
>>> and paste the resulting link.
>>>
>>> I suspect the answer is there isn't imagery available at certain zoom
>>> levels for that area.
>>>
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-6.741&lon=106.9485&zoom=14&layers=M
>>
>>
>
> Pelabuhan Ratu isnt in that line, its another crossover, though, perhaps
> between batches of imagery?
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-6.98435&lon=106.55299&zoom=15&layers=M
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] Indonesia Imagery Blackout

[Kate Chapman]

Alex,

Could you send a link to the area in OpenStreetMap? You can do that by
zooming to the area and clicking the "View" button again. Then copy
and paste the resulting link.

I suspect the answer is there isn't imagery available at certain zoom
levels for that area.

Thanks,

-Kate

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Alex Rollin  wrote:
> There is a line of missing imagery that stretches from Bekasi to Gunung
> Pangranga thourgh Sukabumi to Pelabuhan Ratu that is "not available".
>
> Does anyone have any ideas why this is?
>
> A

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Re: [OSM-talk] Custom Imagery

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Alex,

I've bought imagery previously for Padang from a DigitalGlobe
reseller. It was delivered as a GeoTiff. I then used gdal2tiles.py to
tile it to be used in JOSM.

You may want to recheck the areas you are interested, Bing appears to
have updated quite a bit of imagery in Indonesia recently.

Best,

-Kate

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Alex Rollin  wrote:
> I am looking into how to use custom imagery for tracing.
>
> Can anyone point me at a process, and how-to?
>
> I was looking at the Digital Globe site, thinking of buying some images.
>
> What would I do with them to load them into JOSM?  It appears there is no
> "open background image and add to map" dialog.
>
> Do I need to "create wms tiles"?
>
> Alex
>
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[OSM-talk] Specific Cases of Governments Using OSM

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

I'm giving a presentation in a couple weeks about OpenStreetMap and
how governments can interact with OSM.

I'm looking for examples of governments using OSM data, versus
releasing data for OSM to use.

I already know about TriMet in Portland, OR for example: http://ride.trimet.org/
There is also my work with HOT in Indonesia for mapping exposure for
impact models.

What other examples are out there?

Thanks,

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] new bing hires updates not visible in JOSM?

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Maning,

JOSM caches the old imagery if you clear the cache it will fix the issue.

-Kate
On 13 Jun 2012 08:39, "maning sambale"  wrote:

> I don't think this is the case because when I am using JOSM, the old
> hires imagery is loaded instead of the updates.
>
> You can see the outline of the old imagery here:
> http://maning.github.com/Imagery_Coverage_Map/#10.685173,122.583121,17
>
> Click the bing baselayer to see the updated imagery.  In josm, only
> the old imagery is visible.
>
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Jaakko Helleranta.com
>  wrote:
> > Make sure you are viewing the highest zoom levels (z18-19) when trying
> to look for the highres imagery.
> >
> > This trick showed some additional hires imagery for some areas in Haiti
> last year. It was in JOSM, though and the bug may have been solved (haven't
> checked actually). .. So, may not help you but good to try.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Jaakko
> >
> > --Original Message--
> > From: maning sambale
> > To: osm-talk
> > Subject: [OSM-talk] new bing hires updates not visible in JOSM?
> > Sent: Jun 12, 2012 20:39
> >
> > As the subject says, we spotted new imagery from Bing.  Potlatch2 can
> > load the imagery, but JOSM still shows the lowres Landsat image of the
> > same area.
> >
> > This area for reference:
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=9.305565&lon=123.308057&zoom=18
> >
> > --
> > cheers,
> > maning
> > --
> > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> > --
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel
> > --
> > Mobile: +509-37-26 91 54, Skype/GoogleTalk: jhelleranta
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM data density - top regions

[Kate Chapman]

I apologize to all, I forgot the appropriate link to the task:
http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/9

-Kate

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Kate Chapman  wrote:
> The one in Indonesia is the work of human mappers. There has been an
> effort going on to map all the buildings in Padang for the past 9
> months or so.
>
> It does look like some cleanup does need to be done of the area due to
> some duplicate nodes and other problems. But overall I think it has
> been a really great effort of a lot of folks to help.
>
> If you look at HOT's Tasking Manager you can see there is a large area
> that has been worked on that is almost finished. It is an area HOT
> bought high resolution satellite imagery for through a grant.
>
> -Kate
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>   if you render the world on zoom level 16, there are 67 million "meta
>> tiles" (each covering an area of 8x8 tiles). The majority of them are in the
>> sea, obviously, and unlikely to have any data. 20 million meta tiles are not
>> in the sea; of these, 4.4 million have at least one node.
>>
>> As of 27th May 2012, only 142 of these meta tiles have more than 100,000
>> nodes on them; the front-runner has a whopping 227,000. 105 are in France,
>> 26 in the US, 3 each in Italy and Brazil, and one each in Spain, Japan,
>> Denmark, Austria, and Indonesia.
>>
>> This count is a side effect of something else I was doing and I apologise
>> for not making a proper map of it; I've only dumped and reverse-geocoded the
>> top 142 regions:
>>
>> http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/density/
>>
>> I'd be interested to know how many of these are actually the work of human
>> mappers. Most of the French ones are probably imported buildings, but the
>> others?
>>
>> If anyone wants to do something interesting with it, the full file of all
>> 4.4 million metatiles and how many nodes on them is available on request (or
>> the rather primitive script that makes the list from a planet file).
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM data density - top regions

[Kate Chapman]

The one in Indonesia is the work of human mappers. There has been an
effort going on to map all the buildings in Padang for the past 9
months or so.

It does look like some cleanup does need to be done of the area due to
some duplicate nodes and other problems. But overall I think it has
been a really great effort of a lot of folks to help.

If you look at HOT's Tasking Manager you can see there is a large area
that has been worked on that is almost finished. It is an area HOT
bought high resolution satellite imagery for through a grant.

-Kate

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   if you render the world on zoom level 16, there are 67 million "meta
> tiles" (each covering an area of 8x8 tiles). The majority of them are in the
> sea, obviously, and unlikely to have any data. 20 million meta tiles are not
> in the sea; of these, 4.4 million have at least one node.
>
> As of 27th May 2012, only 142 of these meta tiles have more than 100,000
> nodes on them; the front-runner has a whopping 227,000. 105 are in France,
> 26 in the US, 3 each in Italy and Brazil, and one each in Spain, Japan,
> Denmark, Austria, and Indonesia.
>
> This count is a side effect of something else I was doing and I apologise
> for not making a proper map of it; I've only dumped and reverse-geocoded the
> top 142 regions:
>
> http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/density/
>
> I'd be interested to know how many of these are actually the work of human
> mappers. Most of the French ones are probably imported buildings, but the
> others?
>
> If anyone wants to do something interesting with it, the full file of all
> 4.4 million metatiles and how many nodes on them is available on request (or
> the rather primitive script that makes the list from a planet file).
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenSeaMap

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Frans,

OpenSeaMap(1) is OpenStreetMap, it is a specific rendering of it.

If you look on the wikipage you can see there are a couple specific
mailing lists for it.

-Kate

(1) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Frans Thamura  wrote:
> hi all
>
> anyone review openseamap.org
>
> any idea where is the planet?
>
> and is the community become one with OStreetMap?
>
> or anyone can give me the glue
>
> thx
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Worst of OSM

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Personally I think it is discouraging. I think positive encouragement
is much better than this negative method. Sure it is helpful to
discuss problems somewhere but I think calling it the Worst of OSM is
unfair. If the "map is never done" then isn't everything technically
the worst at some point? At least compared to the future?   For
example the boundaries in Java are correct, they just shouldn't be
mapped as Province level, they are villages.  Sure I could go fix it,
but I'm working with the mappers there locally to fix their mapping
mistakes.

If we want to be a map of the entire world encouraging people will
work much more than discouraging them.

-Kate

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Maarten Deen  wrote:
> On 2012-05-15 12:33, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>
>> I couldn't find a contact possibilty on the page, that's why I try it
>> here.
>>
>> Worst of OSM is a nice idea IMHO:
>>
>> http://worstofosm.tumblr.com/
>>
>> What I really miss though is a possibility to comment / discuss the
>> examples. This could help to explain the context of the screenshot as
>> well as discuss some examples which might be disputed.
>
>
> I agree. I have looked at some examples, and while some are just caused by
> the nature of our (armchair) mapping (non-existing roadnames in Brazil) and
> some seem to be correct (the street-like boundaries on a mountain on Java),
> some really need discussing and fixing, like the crossing in
> (Leipzig)-Schönau, which has been tidied up, but is still broken IMHO
> (mapping every single lane is not a good idea IMHO), and like the "3% of
> villages in Spain" example, which looks like an automated import gone wrong.
>
> Regards,
> Maarten
>
>
>
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[OSM-talk] Kickstarter for Haitian Creole OpenStreetMap Book

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

I just wanted to draw your attention to a project HOT is working on in
conjunction with Community OpenStreetMap Haiti.

We are having a Kickstarter fundraiser for a translation sprint. The
sprint will translate the Free OpenStreetMap book from French into
Haitian Creole.

To have OpenStreetMap continue to grow in Haiti it is vital that more
materials are available in Haitian Creole.

http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-05-10_back_the_first_haitian_creole_openstreetmap_book

Thanks!

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Osmosa Viewer for Osmosa.net and OSM.org

[Kate Chapman]

Serge,

It is not a fork but a local site, I think there is just some language
confusion going on.

My understanding of the intent it to provide faster access to
OpenStreetMap data within Indonesia.  The network within Indonesia is
pretty fast, but slow to the rest of the world.  So having locally
hosted tiles and data is a huge boon in this case.  Editing will be
done on the main OpenStreetMap server.

Correct me if I'm wrong Frans=).

Best,

-Kate

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Frans Thamura  wrote:
>
>> feedback welcome...
>
> There are several OSM forks, and unless I misunderstand, this is
> another one. If so, please discuss that on another list, and leave the
> talk list for OpenStreetMap related discussion.
>
> - Serge
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] POI for Hotel

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Frans,

There is a new application that may be of help:
https://github.com/geofabrik/sds-server

It allows linking of OSM data to other information.  In my training
datasets I used rating as an example since that is a subjective idea.

-Kate

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Frans Thamura  wrote:
> I just thinking
>
> Create a web, fill there and save in poi of osm.
>
> But, what happen if someone has put there.
>
> Still dunno how to communcate if we have data also in my server that 'must'
> share poi
>
> On Apr 13, 2012 10:28 AM, "Andrew Errington" 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, April 13, 2012 11:58, Frans Thamura wrote:
>> > hi all
>> >
>> > we just develop team to collect all the hotel information in Indonesia
>> >
>> > choice
>> >
>> > 1. create a hotel database outside openstreetmap
>> > 2. save in openstreet as POI
>> >
>> >
>> > what do u think?
>> >
>> > and we will create "rating" also for the hotel...
>>
>> Option 2, then (optionally) cross-reference your database outside of OSM
>> with hotel POIs inside OSM.  Alternatively, you can re-generate your
>> database by extracting hotel POIs from the OSM database.
>>
>> For rating you can use the stars=* tag, but it's probably subjective, or
>> not really comparable between countries.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>
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[OSM-talk] Inspiring Other Communities=)

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Just wanted to point out that the weekly OSM Summaries have inspired
Ushahidi to start making their own.

They credit OpenStreetMap on their blog announcing them:
http://blog.ushahidi.com/index.php/2012/03/27/ushahidi-weekly-1/

Best,

-Kate

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[OSM-talk] World Bank and Open Geo-data for Development

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

There was some discussion here a couple months ago about the World
Bank signing a partnership with Google.

This has changed a bit and yesterday they posted on their blog saying
World Bank "supports citizen-mapping efforts that give users free
access to the map data they create." (1)

I think this is really exciting for OSM, some of us have already been
working with the World Bank for a while.  I wrote a post on HOT's blog
about my feelings on it (2) as did Development Seed (3).

Clearly it is a really exciting time for the project.

Best,

-Kate

(1) http://blogs.worldbank.org/insidetheweb/maps-for-open-development
(2) 
http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-03-19_the_world_bank_and_open_maps_for_development_im_excited
(3) http://developmentseed.org/blog/2012/mar/19/world-bank-open-geo-data/

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and Academia (was: Survey about Incentives to contribute to OSM)

[Kate Chapman]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 03/14/2012 07:25 PM, Simone Cortesi wrote:
>>
>
>> in addition to this: I've been part of this community for a while (7
>> years) and never heard about this people pretending to be from the
>> university of Münster, Germany.
>
>
> This, sadly, is a general trend in the acamdemic community. Many of them
> seem to believe that it is unfitting to become too involved with the object
> of study; that you can either be a good community member or write study OSM
> but not both. This leads to a lot of papers being written by people who have
> never set foot in a forum or mailing list, often haven't even mapped or been
> to a pub meet.
>

Not to say perhaps this isn't a trend, but I don't think true in the
case of the University of Münster.  Meaning representatives from the
Geoinformatics programs do come to State of the Map and do contribute
to the project.

I think some consideration has to be take as well that the project is
getting much bigger and not everyone is going to know everyone. There
are plenty of people that map regularly and don't participate in the
main mailing lists either, because they just want to map and don't
feel the need to be social or maybe language is an issue.

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] odbl non-agreement and humanitarian exceptions.

[Kate Chapman]

This is going to require some analysis, but I believe all of the
decliners were tracing from satellite imagery.  So the specific tags
added would have been detailed information about those objects.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> If it wasn't you surveying it, you'd have to verify that nothing remained of
> the decliners contributions. Just because someone surveyed something doesn't
> mean that they surveyed all the v1 data (for an example where v1 was from a
> decliner)
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Kate Chapman [mailto:k...@maploser.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:18 PM
>> To: Michael Collinson
>> Cc: hot; OSM Talk
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] odbl non-agreement and humanitarian exceptions.
>>
>> Much of this data has already been ground surveyed.  Would it be
>> possible based on the source tags to mark things odbl=clean?
>>
>> I think that would take care of a large majority of the problem, since
>> there has been so much on the ground work since the earthquake.
>>
>> -Kate
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Michael Collinson 
>> wrote:
>> > On 02/02/2012 16:23, Larry O'Neill wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi All,
>> >>
>> >> Apologies for any overlap in recipients for this - I very rarely post
>> >> to mailing lists, so I am not sure how wide a net for this issue
>> >> would be appropriate.
>> >>
>> >> There was a discussion on the #osm irc channel recently about the
>> >> possibility of approaching non-agreers to the new CT about any data
>> >> they may have contributed to areas where the removal of such data
>> >> could have a negative effect on our humanitarian efforts.
>> >> Looking for example at how much data we stand to lose in Haiti, this
>> >> is something that may limit the difficulty of those that are on the
>> >> ground in these places and struggling to remap.
>> >>
>> >> The possibility of haing a bounding box around areas such as these
>> >> was mentioned - and there is aparantly a precedent for a users data
>> >> within a BB being retained.
>> >>
>> >> Any thoughts, comments, or points?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Larry O'Neill
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Larry,
>> >
>> > It looks as though there are no specific licensing issues as regards
>> > base data/photos used in Haiti [1]. The issue appears to be confined
>> > to mappers who have been active in the area but have either declined
>> > or not yet responded to requests to re-license? [2]
>> >
>> > We will need their individual permissions, the simplest way being just
>> > to ask them to respond to the new terms.  Friendly, courteous messages
>> > coming from individual mappers working in the same area have been
>> > highly effective in a number of countries. I would expect it to be
>> > doubly so here. We can then revisit the issue in say, two weeks time
>> and see if anyone is left.
>> >
>> > I am immediately going to ask for a Haiti/Dominican Republic link to
>> > be added to http://odbl.de/ and http://odbl.poole.ch/ Then you can
>> > just read off the names and status.
>> >
>> > Meanwhile, you can use the OSMI License View tool to get started. Here
>> > is an incomplete list I just grabbed using it:
>> >
>> > Exponent, Brent Miller, cetest, osmapb1, Tinono, rendle, Tinono,
>> > EvaStern, robbert, Sidneyleenen, Elle_M, DDDarek, veugelke, Mirko
>> > Küster, Eddy Frometa, Alfredo Gil, Jochen Plumeyer, llibre
>> >
>> > It is good know their status.  You can do that by feeding them into
>> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ or seeing if they are on
>> >
>> > http://odbl.poole.ch/central-america-20111208-20120201-poly.html
>> >
>> > This wiki page can be used to coordinate efforts:
>> >
>> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Asking_users_to_accept_the_ODbL
>> >
>> > Please do not hesitate to coordinate with us at
>> > le...@osmfoundation.org . We will do our best to assist.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > License Working Group
>> >
>> > [1]. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue (Appears to
>> > be only Digital Orthophotos)
>> >
>> > [2]
>> > http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe&lon=-71.35913&lat=18.22309&z
>> > oom=7&opacity=0.69&overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,
>> > wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_m
>> > odified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,
>> > wtfe_line_created
>> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] odbl non-agreement and humanitarian exceptions.

[Kate Chapman]

Much of this data has already been ground surveyed.  Would it be
possible based on the source tags to mark things odbl=clean?

I think that would take care of a large majority of the problem, since
there has been so much on the ground work since the earthquake.

-Kate

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Michael Collinson  wrote:
> On 02/02/2012 16:23, Larry O'Neill wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Apologies for any overlap in recipients for this - I very rarely post to
>> mailing lists, so I am not sure how wide a net for this issue would be
>> appropriate.
>>
>> There was a discussion on the #osm irc channel recently about the
>> possibility of approaching non-agreers to the new CT about any data they may
>> have contributed to areas where the removal of such data could have a
>> negative effect on our humanitarian efforts.
>> Looking for example at how much data we stand to lose in Haiti, this is
>> something that may limit the difficulty of those that are on the ground in
>> these places and struggling to remap.
>>
>> The possibility of haing a bounding box around areas such as these was
>> mentioned - and there is aparantly a precedent for a users data within a BB
>> being retained.
>>
>> Any thoughts, comments, or points?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Larry O'Neill
>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> It looks as though there are no specific licensing issues as regards base
> data/photos used in Haiti [1]. The issue appears to be confined to mappers
> who have been active in the area but have either declined or not yet
> responded to requests to re-license? [2]
>
> We will need their individual permissions, the simplest way being just to
> ask them to respond to the new terms.  Friendly, courteous messages coming
> from individual mappers working in the same area have been highly effective
> in a number of countries. I would expect it to be doubly so here. We can
> then revisit the issue in say, two weeks time and see if anyone is left.
>
> I am immediately going to ask for a Haiti/Dominican Republic link to be
> added to http://odbl.de/ and http://odbl.poole.ch/ Then you can just read
> off the names and status.
>
> Meanwhile, you can use the OSMI License View tool to get started. Here is an
> incomplete list I just grabbed using it:
>
> Exponent, Brent Miller, cetest, osmapb1, Tinono, rendle, Tinono, EvaStern,
> robbert, Sidneyleenen, Elle_M, DDDarek, veugelke, Mirko Küster, Eddy
> Frometa, Alfredo Gil, Jochen Plumeyer, llibre
>
> It is good know their status.  You can do that by feeding them into
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ or seeing if they are on
>
> http://odbl.poole.ch/central-america-20111208-20120201-poly.html
>
> This wiki page can be used to coordinate efforts:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Asking_users_to_accept_the_ODbL
>
> Please do not hesitate to coordinate with us at le...@osmfoundation.org . We
> will do our best to assist.
>
> Mike
> License Working Group
>
> [1]. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue (Appears to be only
> Digital Orthophotos)
>
> [2]
> http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe&lon=-71.35913&lat=18.22309&zoom=7&opacity=0.69&overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_modified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,wtfe_line_created
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM downtime as protest against SOPA?

[Kate Chapman]

As HOT is working on the ground in Haiti and Indonesia this week and
additionally helping with a flood response in the Philippines I would
suggest we don't do that.  On Wednesday there are workshops going on
in the St Marc area of Haiti introducing people in that area to OSM
for the first time.

It is true there has been downtime during previous HOT missions and we
have ways of getting around it I don't think it helps us move forward
with people using/updating OpenStreetMap.

Maybe a banner or something instead?

As a U.S. voter I'm sorry about the whole SOPA mess.

Best,

-Kate



2012/1/17 Matthias Meißer :
> Hi,
>
> first of all, sorry for bringing political discussions to the community, as
> I always understand OSM as a political neutral space (we do creating maps,
> nothing else).
> But some of you might noticed that _Wikipedia will make a downtime_ at
> Wednesday as a form of protest against the Stop Piracy Act (SOPA)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOPA
>
> As this law endangers the creation and exchange of free material, too
> ('shutdown OSM/jamendo/.../ as it seems that they copied my property!'), I
> would like to ask, if we might support the wikipedia action?
>
> I have no idea, if this could be technicaly done by the Admins, or what kind
> of protest (complete shutdown, serving demo tiles, locking database, ... a
> banner) would be accepted by the most of us. I just like to notify you, and
> maybe start a discussion.
>
> thanks
> Matthias
> (user:!i!)
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Looking Forward

[Kate Chapman]

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 3:30 PM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert
Gremmen  wrote:
>
> B/ Third world
> A second important thing will be to provide information to the third world,
> countries where a simple paper map is simply not available, or outdated
> or lists only those things that are politically correct. OSM, as
> a user generated map, is able to make itself free from that limitations
> and should innovate the way poor countries use maps.
> HOT is one step into that direction, but by its nature triggered
> by disasters is always lagging the need for data. Can OSM
> provide means to those countries to get a grip on their own geo-data
> and how ?

I'd like to point out that HOT has been working on data preparedness
in some countries but there is certainly more we can do.  I think
supporting of more simple uses of the data would be a great way. At
the moment you can spend a lot of time teaching people how to add/edit
data, but then there are actually not that many ways to use it if you
have a 10 dollar Nokia phone and no access to a printer.  The next
project Maps for All is also working on this: http://mapsforall.org/.
Plus the work of Ground Truth in places like Kibera.

More support to provide GPS units can definitely help as well and
perhaps strategic purchase of imagery.  It is so frustrating to
introduce someone to OSM and then they actually have no way to
contribute locally because there is no high resolution imagery
available of where they live and they have no access to GPS.

Better localization can also help as well.

If many are interested in this type of support there are many ways
things could be furthered.

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Education and Community Manager @ OSM World

[Kate Chapman]

Since I came up in the discussion I figured I should explain myself:)

On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Frans,
>
>
> On 12/10/2011 10:29 PM, Frans Thamura wrote:
>>
>
>
> OSGeo is an organisation that works differently from OSM; it is more driven
> from the head, from people who decide that they want to have a XYZ chapter
> or install an XYZ manager, completely independent of whether or not there is
> a community. This is usually not how OSM works.
>
>
>> I chated this with Kate, about her LearnOSM, which Kate put under HOT
>> umbrella. Education = HOT?
>
>
> Even though HOT is yet another organisation with different concepts and
> rules, what you describe here is just an example of do-ocracy. In OSM, if
> someone makes something for learning OSM then that's ok, everyone can do it
> and you don't have to found an educational chapter first and appoint
> yourself to a post on that.

LearnOSM really is just a website we made.  While we were training
people it become apartment we needed simple step-by-step instructions.
 Jeff Haack just stayed up late one night and started working on it.
It has been awesome how other countries have gone and started
translating it.

>
>
>> I also discusses with Emir (Kate's team here), about OSM-id community
>> program, and "in plan" is the answer.
>
>
> OSM doesn't "plan" its community. The community just grows by itself. OSMF
> does occasionally make plans for various kinds of outreach but you should
> not expect miracles from anyone. OSM is a do-it-yourself project. The
> community in your country comes from you, and people like you, starting
> something - not from people in Europe or America making big plans.

Actually "in plan" was the website we were working on.  We don't have
a "big" plan for the community.  Our goal is to get people mapping. If
someone figures out a better way to doing that cool. We hoped the
website would help people get together.  Yes Emir is part of my team
since he is doing an internship with HOT, but he is free-willed and
can do whatever he wants.  Meaning he's had meetings with other groups
interested in OSM in his spare-time.

Best,

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

[Kate Chapman]

So in my experience in Indonesia we have translated the presets
literally.  As you would with a translation I suppose=).

The question the repeatedly comes up in the training though is "is
this the equivalent of X road-type in Indonesia."  It seems like
people have an okay idea of how the types map over here.  So maybe
this doesn't work in all countries, but this is a question we've
gotten multiple times from multiple groups.

I agree having to figure out who is paying for which road is a silly
way to classify.  But if the road classification matches to the actual
utility of the road why not use it.

-Kate

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Tobias Knerr  wrote:
> Kate Chapman wrote:
>> I'm not sure why that makes sense.  Saying to people "Okay we know you
>> call these types of roads national government roads, well in OSM we
>> call them primary.  So let's create a completely new vocabulary in
>> your country that nobody will remember."
>
> There isn't only one possible way to categorize roads. There may be an
> administrative classification, but you could also categorize them by
> importance or whatever other metric you can think of.
>
> From my experience in Germany, we do not necessarily choose the highway
> value based on the administrative classification, but ultimately based
> on the significance of that road in the road network.
> Usually, a driver wants to find the road that is the most relevant
> connection between two places, rather than learn which administrative
> entity pays for the maintenance of the road. With the German road
> numbering scheme, the administrative classification is also already
> defined by the ref=* tag. So choosing the highway value based on the
> administrative classification would duplicate that information.
>
> Why is this relevant for translations? Well, the translation should
> match the classification that is supposed to be represented by highway
> values. If a translation conflicts with local interpretation of these
> values, it will create confusion.
>
> Tobias
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

[Kate Chapman]

Martin,

I'm not sure why that makes sense.  Saying to people "Okay we know you
call these types of roads national government roads, well in OSM we
call them primary.  So let's create a completely new vocabulary in
your country that nobody will remember."

There are a lot of road classifications already in the wiki for
example here is the one for the US:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_Road_Classification

And here is one for Korea:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Road_Classification

Maybe we are just not understanding each other.

-Kate

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
 wrote:
> 2011/12/7 Kate Chapman :
>> I wonder if custom presets could help with the road classification.
>> We've had the same problem in parts of Indonesia, but that is because
>> the road classifications are simply translated.  Translating the word
>> primary doesn't mean much for the type of road it is.  Changing the
>> word used in the preset to the specific known government
>> classification could help.
>
>
> That would be an interpretation though. Some time ago we voted about
> the highway-classification and decided that it shouldn't necessarily
> corrispond to the local government classification, that's why the
> presets usually are translated and don't associate a certain road type
> to local government classification (usually there is more then one
> government-classification, the one visible at the road is (where I
> know of) the one of the maintaining entity, which is not in every case
> the classification of importance of the connection, as planning
> engineers see it).
>
> cheers,
> Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

[Kate Chapman]

Well I think there are a couple strategies.

For example encouraging students to clean-up each others mistakes
would be a good one.  You could use OWL to monitor edits in an area as
well:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OWL_(OpenStreetMap_Watch_List)

Keep right can be used to look for mistakes as well:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keep_right

Additionally I would suggest making sure students run the validator
plugin in JOSM before they upload their data.

Best,

-Kate

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Frans Thamura  wrote:
>>
>> Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students
>> to map in OSM.  The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by
>> the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to
>> monitor who is doing what.  Since there is a user account associated
>> with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if
>> you wanted to.
>
> can give me the glue?
>
> how to implement it here?
>
> F
>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -Kate
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson  wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura  wrote:
 last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
 will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .
>>>
>>> I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it
>>> perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't
>>> see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for
>>> uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server
>>> might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so
>>> unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server
>>> then don't do it.
>>>
>>> Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia?
>>>
>>> --
>>> /emj
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Erik, HOT has been teaching OSM all over Indonesia for the past 6
months.  I can say that the uploads aren't that slow, since people are
usually mapping in a small area.  Loading of the OSM website though is
often very slow, which in a class of new people sometimes makes it
difficult just to get them accounts.

Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students
to map in OSM.  The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by
the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to
monitor who is doing what.  Since there is a user account associated
with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if
you wanted to.

Best,

-Kate

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson  wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura  wrote:
>> last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
>> will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .
>
> I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it
> perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't
> see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for
> uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server
> might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so
> unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server
> then don't do it.
>
> Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia?
>
> --
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Friends

[Kate Chapman]

Yes, I'm with Jaakko on the benefit of making things more social.

I friend people on OpenStreetMap when I happen across their accounts.
Not everyone of course:).  Meaning if I see someone's edits who was in
one of my workshops (meaning they continued editing) I friend them.  I
think it lets people know there are other people around and there is a
community behind the map.

A lot of people don't get mailing lists now days.  For example more
information goes back and forth in Facebook about mapping in Indonesia
than the osm-id list.

-Kate

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:02 AM, Jaakko Helleranta.com
 wrote:
> "Maybe we should allow teenage users to shoot nude pictures of themselves, 
> upload, and share with friends."
>
> Or maybe, just maybe, some of the blessed developers who know Rails well 
> enough could help make connecting with other mappers 
> easier/smoother/even_delightful
>
> So, +1 for Martijn's idea(s).
>
> Cheers from Haiti (where challenges in connecting with other mappers in a way 
> that works is one major obstacle in creating a vibrant mapping community),
> -Jaakko
>
> --Original Message--
> From: Frederik Ramm
> To: Talk@OSM
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Friends
> Sent: Nov 30, 2011 15:18
>
> Hi,
>
> On 11/30/2011 09:06 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> * Whether the friendee is notified about being friended by another user.
>
> Yes, because I have had complaints from people being "friended" by a
> known obnoxious community member whom nobody wanted to be friends with ;)
>
>> And most importantly:
>> * How could the OSM friend concept be made more meaningful?
>
> Not every non-meaningful feature must be made more meaningful. Burying
> such a feature is also an option ;)
>
>> * Integrate with other social networks (find OSM friends through
>> Twitter / Facebook / ...)
>> * Being able to group-send messages to your friends.
>> * Having friend groups
>> I realize that these are some pretty big ideas
>
> Personally I would consider none of them useful but maybe that's because
> I just don't "get" social. Maybe we should allow teenage users to shoot
> nude pictures of themselves, upload, and share with friends.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
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>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] #Occupy camps in OSM?

[Kate Chapman]

I think it would be interesting to do.  I've seen a couple maps using
Google Map as the base that were handdrawn.

Here is an example of one: http://yfrog.com/nx3vnnj

If Walking-Papers was just the starting point they could have been traced in:).

-Kate

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Janko Mihelić  wrote:
> Occupy Hamburg :)
>
> There is an unwritten rule for temporary content. The problem is with some
> applications that have offline data. They get the state when it's
> downloaded, and then it's refreshed after a few months. So you shouldn't
> draw stuff that is going to be gone in less than a few months. That said,
> tags like start and end date should fix this. This should be a problem for
> developers, not mappers.
>
> If you ask me, put it in :)
>
>
> 2011/11/8 Alan McConchie 
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I mooted this question on the IRC, but I also wanted to ask it here, too.
>> Should the temporary camps of the #OccupyWallStreet movement be mapped in
>> OSM? Clearly these are temporary and rapidly changing structures, but some
>> of the camps have remained relatively stable for several weeks now. OSM
>> already includes things like Burning Man, which only lasts for one week.
>>
>> Does anyone know of any #Occupy camps that have already been mapped? I
>> checked NYC, London, San Francisco and Oakland and didn't see anything. Or,
>> have any similar camps been mapped in OSM already, other than Burning Man?
>>
>> I figure we could use many of the same features that Burning Man uses,
>> primarily tourism:camp_site, plus keys like start_date and end_date (if
>> applicable).
>>
>> I also should say that I don't think it needs to be a political question
>> whether or not OSM supports the #Occupy movement. Whether or not we agree
>> with the protests, these are newsworthy places that many people would like
>> to know about, not just the protestors.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Alan
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Re: [OSM-talk] Demo editing to OSM data

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Peter,

Why wouldn't you just teach them how to edit to add real information?
I can't speak for the whole community, but I think that is the best
way to teach them.  There are workshops held all over the world where
people immediately make edits to OpenStreetMap.

If you need help with materials, there are many out there to get people started.

Best,

-Kate

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Peter Mooney  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am doing some teaching in a few weeks time on Neogeography. I intend
> to show the students the workings of OpenStreetMap and in particular
> how to contribute data and edit/update existing features.
>
> I am aware that http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/ exists for testing.
>
> My question is:
>
> What is the most community-acceptable way to allow people to "test
> out" editing in OSM (via Potlatch) which harming the data in the live
> database? Under no circumstances will editing of the live database
> take place in the workshops.
>
> Is there an alternative to setting up my own local OSM server?
>
> Best wishes and thanks in advance,
>
> Peter
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] LearnOSM.org

[Kate Chapman]

The site was built as part of our work in Indonesia.  Our team here doesn't
plan to translate to other languages at the moment. Of course we will help
others that want to translate.

As HOT works in other areas I can see translation become part of our work in
those places.

Kate
On Sep 26, 2011 1:28 PM, "Besfort Guri"  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> are you planing to translate in others languages? or only in Indonesian
...
>
> 2011/9/25 Kate Chapman 
>
>> Hi Matthias,
>>
>> The way we did the Bahasa Indonesia translation is by starting with a
>> master google doc series of each chapter. We then made a copy for
>> translation. We could do that. In 4 weeks though some of us are
>> going to the GSoC Documentation sprint and one of our goals is to
>> figure out a better way to handle documentation.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -Kate
>>
>> 2011/9/23 Matthias Meißer :
>> > Am 23.09.2011 08:55, schrieb Kate Chapman:
>> >>
>> >> Hi All,
>> >>
>> >> I wanted to share that HOT has completed our project to create
>> >> materials in English and Bahasa Indonesia to help people learn about
>> >> OpenStreetMap.
>> >>
>> >> Everything is up at the following URL: http://www.learnosm.org/. The
>> >> intent is to put up additional tutorials and some video screencasts as
>> >> we go as well.
>> >>
>> >> This project was lead by Jeff Haack with the assistance of Vasanthi
>> >> and Emir Hartato (who some of you probably met at SotM).
>> >>
>> >> We hope it is helpful for others,
>> >
>> > Great job! More material is always good :)
>> >
>> > How can we contribute further translations?
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > Matthias
>> >
>> > ___
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>> >
>>
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>
>
>
> --
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> Besfort Guri
> +377 44 49 88 91
> www.besiguri.wordpress.com
> http://besfortp.posterous.com/
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Re: [OSM-talk] LearnOSM.org

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Matthias,

The way we did the Bahasa Indonesia translation is by starting with a
master google doc series of each chapter.  We then made a copy for
translation.  We could do that.  In 4 weeks though some of us are
going to the GSoC Documentation sprint and one of our goals is to
figure out a better way to handle documentation.

Best,

-Kate

2011/9/23 Matthias Meißer :
> Am 23.09.2011 08:55, schrieb Kate Chapman:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I wanted to share that HOT has completed our project to create
>> materials in English and Bahasa Indonesia to help people learn about
>> OpenStreetMap.
>>
>> Everything is up at the following URL: http://www.learnosm.org/.  The
>> intent is to put up additional tutorials and some video screencasts as
>> we go as well.
>>
>> This project was lead by Jeff Haack with the assistance of Vasanthi
>> and Emir Hartato (who some of you probably met at SotM).
>>
>> We hope it is helpful for others,
>
> Great job! More material is always good :)
>
> How can we contribute further translations?
>
> cheers
> Matthias
>
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[OSM-talk] LearnOSM.org

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

I wanted to share that HOT has completed our project to create
materials in English and Bahasa Indonesia to help people learn about
OpenStreetMap.

Everything is up at the following URL: http://www.learnosm.org/.  The
intent is to put up additional tutorials and some video screencasts as
we go as well.

This project was lead by Jeff Haack with the assistance of Vasanthi
and Emir Hartato (who some of you probably met at SotM).

We hope it is helpful for others,

-Kate

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[OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code Documentation Sprint

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Some of you might remember a while back Ian Dees asked for volunteers
for a GSoC Documentation Sprint.  We applied to the sprint and were
accepted!

So myself, Ian Dees and Shaun McDonald will be going to Mountain View,
California the week of October 21st to work on improving some of the
OSM documentation.

Below is what our proposal was:

"A free map of the entire world is a compelling reason to sign-up for
OpenStreetMap, but getting started with map editing can be difficult.
By having a getting started guide that can easily be translated into
many languages we hope to reduce the barrier to entry.  Earlier
efforts to make a concise, easily accessible document have grown out
of date and stale, so we hope to start fresh with a document that can
be easily translated, is useful both online and offline, and is easily
maintained.  It is important to us to end up with a document that can
be printed and used in the field, since a majority of our new users
contribute to the project while away from the computer.

Our team hopes to create documentation that can be used immediately
but also improved in the future.  This requires the ability to easily
get new translators up to speed and store the document in many
different formats.  By having this in place we can then continue to
improve the getting started guide over time and be able to recruit new
contributors more easily."

Please note this does not mean we are starting over with
documentation, though it might read that way.  We are more concerned
with compiling what is out there, updating it and have it set-up in a
way that is easy to translate and print.

Thanks!

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF elections

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Richard,

Is how many positions are open and which positions available?

Thanks,

Kate

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Richard Weait  wrote:
> In prior years the elections were held at an AGM with proxy votes by
> email for those not able to attend.  Last year, the OSMF board
> election was held at SotM - Girona, with the same proxy votes by
> email. this was seen as an improvement and will be the method used
> this year as well.  We're coming up on SotM Denver. It's less than a
> month away now.  Which means that the official notification of the AGM
> and board election will be coming up soon.
>
> If I remember correctly the AGM was held at lunch in Girona.  That may
> well be the case in Denver, too.
>
> So if you have been thinking about standing for election to the OSMF
> board, if you have issues that you would like to see discussed by
> candidates, if you have suggestions and requests for those involved,
> now is a good time to start putting things in order.
>
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[OSM-talk] HOT Docs

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

HOT has been working on an OpenStreetMap manual as part of our work in
Indonesia.  Most of the credit goes to Jeff Haack, Emir Hartato and
Vasanthi for working very hard on this. We realize there are many
different guides that exist, but wanted something that could be
accessible to those without much computer experience when they first
start using OSM.

Currently the master documents are in English and there is a nearly
complete Bahasa Indonesian guide as well.

Anyway, hope it can be of help:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5RDW80NUrJnMTJkMzcwZDMtZGJlMC00MDJmLTg0NWEtODljOWQ0ZjZkOTMz&hl=en_US

Thanks!

-Kate

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[OSM-talk] Design List

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

So we've talked about design on and off around here.  I personally
have never made a pretty interface in my entire life.

Anyway, I've had some designers doing some work for a project HOT is
doing in Indonesia and there was interest in discuss design on a
larger scale.  I figured having a mailing list would be a good place
to start.  That way if you do meet someone interested in design and
OSM there is a place to send them.

This of course isn't meant to replace any of the work on the wiki or
anything else that has already done.  I'm working on a summary of
that, so that it will be at least in the archives of the list.

So if you are interested subscribe:)
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/design

Thanks!

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Id stability

[Kate Chapman]

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Kate Chapman wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand why having the ability to link to external
>> data through some sort of ID is such a bad thing.
>
> This is about external data linking to us, not vice versa.
>
>> This is common in
>> many APIs and datasets.   It is an opportunity to mix data in new ways
>> as well.
>
> That's why it ought to be done right, in a way that places no additional
> burden on our project. (And if you need proof that it isn't easy - even
> Navteq and TeleAtlas do not promise stability of their IDs, and indeed they
> change often.)

They don't promise you that they won't change, but I've worked on
applications that used their IDs as a helper between updates.  I'm not
saying we have to make sure all the IDs stay the same.  I just think
we shouldn't for example swap all of them.  If it isn't any extra work
at the moment to have 90% stability I don't think that is a bad thing.

If all the IDs have to be redone at some point I would hope a look-up
would be made at some point.  (I realize that someone could do this
without putting an additional burden on the community).
>
> For every mapper there are hundreds who want to use our data (and whereas
> the mapper never receives any money, many of our data users actually make
> money or save money by using our data). This means, to me, that if data
> users want to have it easier, want stable linking to OSM or whatever, they
> ought to shoulder the burden themselves rather than asking us to shoulder it
> for them IN ADDITION to what we are already doing.
>
> And, as I have explained, it would be a simple matter of programming (plus a
> little funds to run the service) to do this properly.
>
>> Why aquiesce to use tags at all, making
>> data more consistent just burdens *our* data with stuff other people
>> want to do with it.
>
> Like it or not, most of our mappers are in it for the map. That's why they
> use tags. If most of our mappers were in it for the general idea of a
> semantic web and a linked data store that encompasses the planet, things
> might look different.
>
>> I think being able to link between datasets can be beneficial.  Maybe
>> versioning on the API makes sense, maybe UUIDs, but I don't think the
>> linking is such a bad thing.
>
> My main point was that any additional burden caused for us by linking - be
> that a reuirement for constant IDs, the introduction of additional tags, or
> warnings that pop up when someone tries to make an otherwise normal edit -
> is hard to accept for me, and I'd prefer a third-party service that does all
> this without affecting us negatively. It's technically possible so if
> someone is really eager to have proper linking then why not just do it.

I'm not advocating for this either.  Many of the tools are difficult
enough for people to get started on.  Though this is certainly getting
better.

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Id stability

[Kate Chapman]

I'm not sure I understand why having the ability to link to external
data through some sort of ID is such a bad thing.  This is common in
many APIs and datasets.   It is an opportunity to mix data in new ways
as well.

Frederik also this seems odd to me " I'm not a big fan of UUIDs
because, again, it burdens *our* data with stuff
 that other people want to do with it."  Define other people, do you
mean mappers, data users?  Why aquiesce to use tags at all, making
data more consistent just burdens *our* data with stuff other people
want to do with it.

I think being able to link between datasets can be beneficial.  Maybe
versioning on the API makes sense, maybe UUIDs, but I don't think the
linking is such a bad thing.

-Kate

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Andrzej,
>
> andrzej zaborowski wrote:
>>
>> Or create an OSM relation containing just the thing you want to link
>> to and reference the relation's Id the editors already support
>> warning when somethign bad happens to a relation member.
>
> Under no circumstances should we burden the mapper with keeping up external
> IDs that someone needs for their application. A relation being edited is not
> "something bad happening", it is something good. We don't want to discourage
> edits, or make them more complex, just so that someone's linked data store
> continues to function - that must be *their*  job, not the mapper's.
>
>> Relations
>> are unlikely to be reused for a compeltely new purpose and they can be
>> undeleted and modified to match changes in reality.
>
> Just because you cannot think of anything right now doesn't mean that (a)
> there isn't anything and (b) there won't be anything in the future. If you
> promise relation ID stability to anyone now, you reduce what *we* can do
> with *our* data in the future.
>
> (One example off the top of my head: Relations for long-distance routes are
> often created in several places at the same time, then they grow until they
> "meet", and are merged, with one of them being deleted.)
>
>>> Of course you would add a UUID tag only to objects that are actualy
>>> referenced. And then you would need some way to enforce uniqueness.
>>
>> Because of the above I'm not sure if you want to enforce uniqueness,
>> you might even want >1 UUIDs per osm entity.
>
> I'm not a big fan of UUIDs because, again, it burdens *our* data with stuff
> that other people want to do with it. We had a lot of discussion about this.
> Andrzej ist right - if five-star restaurant "Chez John" is in a listed
> building, then someone compiling a directory of listed buildings would have
> to use another UUID than someone compiling a list of good restaurants,
> because the restaurant could move elsewhere and it would then have to take
> its UUID with it. Consequently, people have started to use UUID:building and
> UUID:amenity keys but I really have a very bad feeling about this.
>
> Coming back to what Maarten has said above, I would definitely be against
> adding UUIDs to every single house and garden shed "just in case" - like the
> 75.000 "uuid:building" tags we have. If we were to do UUIDs we would have to
> have a way of finding out whether something is actually linked, and if it
> isn't, then don't bother having an UUID.
>
> Which brings me back to something I mentioned earlier - I would like to have
> some kind of "link server" where you can go and say "I want a permanent link
> to this OSM object", then the server says "ok, I have investigated the
> object you mentioned and I'd say I make the permanent link point to 'a
> restaurant named Chez John within 500 metres of this location', is that ok",
> and you go "yes", and the server then says "your permanent link ID is
> 1234567890, thank you". At any later time you can query the server for that
> permanent link ID and you get back either the OSM object, or the current OSM
> object ID, or nothing if the link is broken.
>
> The great thing about such a server would be that the server could indeed
> *always* know which links are still working and which are broken, and broken
> links could even be automatically highlighted on something like
> OpenStreetBugs so anyone who is interested could hunt them down and fix
> them. The server could also track which links are actually used, and expire
> them if they aren't used for a year or so.
>
> This would make one great project for a student thesis (Claus, are you still
> reading...?). I don't know if this is compatible with the linked data store
> idea, maybe explicitly having to register a link is a problem there, but if
> that's the case then I'd say linked data store is just not for us.
>
> And to Steve Bennett ("people need a solution now, not vapourware") -
> sometimes settling for a half-baked solution too early has the risk of
> entrenching half-bakedness and never getting around to implement a good
> solution.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>

Re: [OSM-talk] Brilliant!

[Kate Chapman]

I can only imagine what this is going to be:
http://2011.foss4g.org/sessions/geoglobaldomination-musical

And I will never listen to "Eye of the Tiger" in the same way again.

-Kate

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 5:04 AM, Richard Weait  wrote:
> Bravo, Señor España.  Bravo.
>
> http://opengeodata.org/state-of-the-map
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Imagery won't Load in JOSM

[Kate Chapman]

Never mind.  ID10T error on my part:).  The internet connection had
gone out on that computer, but not before we had downloaded data to
edit.

-Kate

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Kate Chapman  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Sorry to have not done a lot of research on this (I'm doing a workshop
> today with 25 University students).
>
> For a couple of individuals none of the TMS/WMS will load.  These are
> machines running Windows 7.  You add the imagery and nothing happens.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Kate
>

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[OSM-talk] Imagery won't Load in JOSM

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

Sorry to have not done a lot of research on this (I'm doing a workshop
today with 25 University students).

For a couple of individuals none of the TMS/WMS will load.  These are
machines running Windows 7.  You add the imagery and nothing happens.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing aerial imagery priorities

[Kate Chapman]

Right, what I was trying to propose was if making imagery available would
spark community in some places.

Kate
On Jun 17, 2011 12:23 PM, "Frederik Ramm"  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 06/17/11 17:18, Kate Chapman wrote:
>> Yes I agree that the arm chair mapping isn't the best method of
>> collection. Though in some areas it will be difficult to ever have
>> mappers on the ground without imagery. The cost of a GPS is
>> prohibitive in many places.
>
> Oh I wasn't referring to any kind of armchair mapping. I think it's ok
> if you map something in the vicinity of where you live, or at least
> where you are; if it is something that you have some first-hand
> knowledge of, rather than just an image.
>
> The less desirable kind of armchair mapping, in my eyes, is when someone
> maps an area he's never been to. (I'm guilty of that too.)
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bing aerial imagery priorities

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Frederik,

Yes I agree that the arm chair mapping isn't the best method of
collection.  Though in some areas it will be difficult to ever have
mappers on the ground without imagery.  The cost of a GPS is
prohibitive in many places.

I've been working with some rural areas in Indonesia and it was much
easier to show individuals how to use the imagery than buy everyone a
GPS.  Well costwise that is.  We ended up only purchasing GPS for
those areas that didn't have decent imagery.

Best,

Kate

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 06/17/11 08:15, Gehling Marc wrote:
>>
>> I would suggest that images are updated from countries that are
>> currently inan upheaval as Egypt, Tunisia, Libya
>
> What Would FakeSteveC say?
>
> http://fakestevec.blogspot.com/2011/04/know-your-osm-memes-4.html
>
> Oh, that.
>
> Jokes aside, I think the ideal use of aerial imagery in OSM is support for
> mappers on the ground. I.e. it is great to have aerial imagery where we
> *also* have local mappers in the area.
>
> Aerial imagery as raw material for armchair mappers in Europe who enjoy
> tracing faraway countries is of lesser priority. I know from my own
> experience that such armchair mapping can be a lot of fun, and we have seen
> in Haiti that it can also be helpful, but I think this is not the main mode
> of operation we're striving for.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Join the OSMF !

[Kate Chapman]

My silence previously to legal discussions doesn't mean that I like them being 
on the main mailing list.  I also subscribe to the legal list and read it as 
well.  I'm not sure why it is difficult to subscribe to different mailing 
lists, mine are all filtered into different folders where I can read them 
depending on my view of their importance.

There have been many legal discussions on this list and I think it would be 
difficult to be subscribed to talk and read it and not see those discussions.

I know I would appreciate it if the licensing talk would move back to the legal 
list.  I can't speak for anyone else though.

Thank you,

-Kate

On Jun 14, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Pieren wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Richard Weait  wrote:
> Nonsense.  The separate list for legal discussions was created because
> legal discussions were drowning general mapping discussions and the
> community asked that legal discussions be moved to another list.
> legal-talk is not confidential it is a public list.  It is open to
> join, and is archived.
> 
> 
> I'm currently counting 31 mailint lists in openstreetmap.org 
> (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists) !
> 
> 31 mailing lists without the local lists.!!
> 
> I subscribed to 7 of them which is probably much more than many of the 
> readers here. 
> How can you expect that every one concerned by the futur of the project 
> subscribed to the legal list ?? 
> What can be more important for the main list if it is not about a license 
> change affecting so much the project itself ?
> Did you not receive in the past years enough feedbacks from enough different 
> people to understand that you have an issue here ?
> 
> Pieren
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-- 
Kate Chapman
email: k8chap...@gmail.com
U.S. mobile: +1 703 673 8834
Indonesian mobile: +62 82123068370 

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[OSM-talk] OSM Gift Ideas

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

I've been doing workshops in various communities and universities.  Sometimes 
it is appropriate to bring a gift to exchange.  Does anyone have any ideas on 
suitable items?

Ideally it would be something to be shared among the group.  Not sure really 
what would be best, originally I was thinking along the lines of a plaque, but 
looking for additional ideas.

Thanks!

-Kate

-- 
Kate Chapman
email: k8chap...@gmail.com
U.S. mobile: +1 703 673 8834
Indonesian mobile: +62 82123068370 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bandwidth limit/IP blocking - Error 303 on the OSM API?

[Kate Chapman]

I'd also like to add that people get more excited about OpenStreetMap when they 
see their changes instantly added.  I've trained people in both Potlatch, 
Potlatch2 and JOSM.  I pick the tool depending on specific class.  Areas with 
bad/no internet access we use JOSM and changes are immediately seen (people 
never seem that excited).

-Kate

On Jun 6, 2011, at 12:41 AM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Stephan Knauss  
> wrote:
>> On 05.06.2011 22:18, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
 
 For doing test edits: Why not use the dev api? Then you won't have to
 worry
 about uploads breaking something.
>>> 
>>> When I've done this kind of training, it's been for a disaster, and we
>>> need the real data, and the real api.
>> 
>> In what way does the dev API differ from the real one that is affecting your
>> training? Or is it just that there is not enough data available?
>> You can upload an extract of the area you are using into dev in advance to
>> have data to play with.
> 
> Maybe my comment wasn't clear.
> 
> When I've done training for OSM, it's been in the context of a crisis
> event when we had 20-40 people using areal imagery to examine an area
> and map it. They would classify roads, detect destroyed buildings,
> identify tent cities, etc.
> 
> The point wasn't just to train them in some abstract way, but to make
> real change.
> 
> - Serge
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Building Equals Yes

[Kate Chapman]

That's awesome.

I always appreciate the usage of Null Island as well:)
http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/id/28715636/

How often is this going to be updated?  Apparently I'm in a building
that was not tagged building=yes;)

-Kate

P.S. Emailing from the building next to this one:
http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/way/28715636/

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Michal Migurski  wrote:
> By my colleague Aaron Cope:
>
>        "building=yes is a searchable and linkable index of every singleway 
> tagged building=yes in OpenStreetMap (OSM).
>
> A web page for every building in OpenStreetMap!
>
> You can link to buildings using their 64-bit building=yes identifier or their 
> OSM way ID.
>
> Each building has been tagged with one or more Where On Earth (WOE) IDs so 
> you can also search for buildings by place."
>
> Examples:
>        http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/id/2147483882
>        http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/id/2147486984
>        http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/id/2147484753
>        http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/id/2147773744
>        http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/id/2147555753
>
> More:
>        http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/
>
> And:
>        http://buildingequalsyes.spum.org/search/
>
> -mike.
>
> 
> michal migurski- m...@stamen.com
>                 415.558.1610
>
>
>
>
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