Re: [Talk-GB] StyleSheet for Outdoors Rendering

[Graham Jones]

One more thing.  Does anyone have a way of generating a map key from a
carto style?  Otherwise I might have to write something.

Cheers


Graham

On 2 Apr 2017 17:21, "Graham Jones" <grahamjones...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you all for your suggestions.
> It is all coming back to me slowly now
>
> I decided to have a go at a large scale monochrome outdoor map.  Two
> reasons for this:
>
>1. I want to use it as a background to show the route of a race, so I
>can show the route as a coloured overlay and it will show up nicely.
>2. I am colourblind and struggle if he difference between features is
>colour, so I want the difference to be line weight or pattern instead - I
>can imagine using this for a printed outdoor map for me to use.
>
> Have based it on Greg's work (because it is easier to start out simple so
> I understand what I am doing, and he has got the OS projection working
> nicely), adding in features as I realise I need them, plagiarising Andy's
> code when necessary (I will update the credits in the README)
>
> It is stored here if anyone is interested:
> https://github.com/jones139/gb-leisure-carto   (mine are the style files
> with the '-mono' suffix - it is now so different to Greg's that I should
> maybe change its name, unless Greg would like a mono map too?)
>
> you can see what it looks like here:
> https://github.com/jones139/gb-leisure-carto/blob/master/
> gb-leisure-mono.png
> (this gives a scale of about 1:12500 when printed on A4.
>
> The style currently does the area I was interested in ok (although I am
> minded to make walls and hedges use a pattern rather than a simple line),
> but I am sure there are important features missing when I look at a
> different area, so it is a long way of finished.
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
> Graham.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] StyleSheet for Outdoors Rendering

[Graham Jones]

Thank you all for your suggestions.
It is all coming back to me slowly now

I decided to have a go at a large scale monochrome outdoor map.  Two
reasons for this:

   1. I want to use it as a background to show the route of a race, so I
   can show the route as a coloured overlay and it will show up nicely.
   2. I am colourblind and struggle if he difference between features is
   colour, so I want the difference to be line weight or pattern instead - I
   can imagine using this for a printed outdoor map for me to use.

Have based it on Greg's work (because it is easier to start out simple so I
understand what I am doing, and he has got the OS projection working
nicely), adding in features as I realise I need them, plagiarising Andy's
code when necessary (I will update the credits in the README)

It is stored here if anyone is interested:
https://github.com/jones139/gb-leisure-carto   (mine are the style files
with the '-mono' suffix - it is now so different to Greg's that I should
maybe change its name, unless Greg would like a mono map too?)

you can see what it looks like here:
https://github.com/jones139/gb-leisure-carto/blob/master/gb-leisure-mono.png
(this gives a scale of about 1:12500 when printed on A4.

The style currently does the area I was interested in ok (although I am
minded to make walls and hedges use a pattern rather than a simple line),
but I am sure there are important features missing when I look at a
different area, so it is a long way of finished.

Thanks again for your help.

Graham.
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[Talk-GB] StyleSheet for Outdoors Rendering

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
I haven't done much with OSM for a few years, so I think I will be behind
the times, so wondered if someone could point me in the right direction
please?

I want to produce some large (A3 sized at least) printable maps for
outdoors use.   It is actually to show the route of a cross country race,
so I want to show fences, gates stiles, embankments, steps, as well as land
cover and contour lines / hill shading (but not distractions like admin
boundaries)

Is there a published carto style available that will show these sort of
things available that I could use as a basis for this, rather than start
from scratch?   (maybe free-map.org.uk, but I'm not sure if that shows
field boundaries etc?)

Last time I did this sort of thing I used a simple python script called
generate_image.py - is that still the best thing to use or has something
else taken its place?

Thanks!

Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tile Server manual build 15.10 troubleshooting

[Graham Jones]

You will find generate_tiles.py etc. in the subversion folder referenced
here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OnDemandTileServer#Mapnik

the instructions in that wiki page are:

 svn co http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/rendering/mapnik

I don't think subversion is installed by default on ubuntu so you will
probably have to do 'sudo apt-get install subversion' for 'svn' to
work.


On 3 January 2016 at 23:27, Graham Jones <grahamjones...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm a bit out of practice - haven't done much OSM stuff lately, but when
> you download the OSM mapnik things (to make the mapnik style file), it
> comes with a program called generate_tiles.py.  You give it the bounding
> box of the area you are interested in, and the mapnik style file, and it
> creates the set of tiles - you can put these in a location where your web
> server can get to them and they will be served by apache.
>
> I drew a picture of how it all fitted together in a presentation a while
> ago, because it is quite complicated as you have discovered!
> http://www.slideshare.net/jones139/rendering-openstreetmap-data-using-mapnik
>
> I started a wiki page to describe the different methods of making tiles
> once http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Creating_your_own_tiles
>
> To get going I'd recommend just having a go with the generate_image.py and
> generate_tiles.py scripts to get something if you are not too interested in
> updating everything in real time etc.
>
> One thing to bear in mind though is that the method of creating the mapnik
> style file has changed since I used it - the default style is now once
> called 'carto', but once you have made the xml style file,
> generate_tiles.py and generate_image.py will work with it.
>
> I hope that helps.   I'm afraid it is rather late in the uk so I have to
> go to bed, but if you need anything else drop me a line and I'll reply
> tomorrow.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Graham.
>
> On 3 January 2016 at 23:14, Skyler F <electricity...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> How do you use generate_tiles.py, maybe that would work better. All I
>> want to do is be able to request tiles in the Colorado area from an
>> application that needs tiles.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Graham Jones <grahamjones...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm afraid I am out of my depth now - I never used renderd - I just
>>> generated a set of tiles manually using generate_tiles.py once I had got
>>> the database and mapnik working - hopefully one of the folks that are more
>>> familiar with renderd will be able to help with that bit.
>>> Sorry!
>>>
>>> Graham.
>>>
>>> On 3 January 2016 at 23:02, Skyler F <electricity...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am getting pretty frustrated. I have been working all day on this,
>>>> and just can't get it to work.
>>>>
>>>> So I type service apache2 reload, and I get Job for apache2.service
>>>> invalid?! Apache was working fine earlier but now, It won't even open up
>>>> the apache test page when I type localhost on my system.
>>>>
>>>> When I run sudo -u kd0whb renderd -f -c /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf
>>>> I get a bunch of syntax errors:
>>>>
>>>> renderd[5845]: Rendering daemon started
>>>> renderd[5845]: Initiating reqyest_queue
>>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (7):
>>>> -> ;[renderd01]
>>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (14):
>>>> -> ;[renderd02]
>>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (33):
>>>> -> ;** config options used by mod_tile, but not renderd **
>>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (45):
>>>> -> ;[style2]
>>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (52):
>>>> -> ;** config options used by mod_tile, but not renderd **
>>>>
>>>> Isn't this symbol a comment "  ;   "  ?
>>>> Why is it telling me syntax errors for the commented out lines?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Skyler F <electricity...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well here is the error log:
>>>>>
>>>>> [Sun Jan 03 10:17:11.032835 2016] [mpm_event:notice] [pid 17637:tid
>>>>> 140426070529920] AH00489: Apache/2.4.12 (Ubuntu) configured -- resuming
>>>>> normal operations
>>>>> [Sun Jan 03 10:17:11.032907 2016] [core:notice] [pid 17637:tid
>>>>> 140426070529920] AH0009

Re: [OSM-talk] Tile Server manual build 15.10 troubleshooting

[Graham Jones]

I'm a bit out of practice - haven't done much OSM stuff lately, but when
you download the OSM mapnik things (to make the mapnik style file), it
comes with a program called generate_tiles.py.  You give it the bounding
box of the area you are interested in, and the mapnik style file, and it
creates the set of tiles - you can put these in a location where your web
server can get to them and they will be served by apache.

I drew a picture of how it all fitted together in a presentation a while
ago, because it is quite complicated as you have discovered!
http://www.slideshare.net/jones139/rendering-openstreetmap-data-using-mapnik

I started a wiki page to describe the different methods of making tiles
once http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Creating_your_own_tiles

To get going I'd recommend just having a go with the generate_image.py and
generate_tiles.py scripts to get something if you are not too interested in
updating everything in real time etc.

One thing to bear in mind though is that the method of creating the mapnik
style file has changed since I used it - the default style is now once
called 'carto', but once you have made the xml style file,
generate_tiles.py and generate_image.py will work with it.

I hope that helps.   I'm afraid it is rather late in the uk so I have to go
to bed, but if you need anything else drop me a line and I'll reply
tomorrow.

Regards


Graham.

On 3 January 2016 at 23:14, Skyler F <electricity...@gmail.com> wrote:

> How do you use generate_tiles.py, maybe that would work better. All I want
> to do is be able to request tiles in the Colorado area from an application
> that needs tiles.
>
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Graham Jones <grahamjones...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid I am out of my depth now - I never used renderd - I just
>> generated a set of tiles manually using generate_tiles.py once I had got
>> the database and mapnik working - hopefully one of the folks that are more
>> familiar with renderd will be able to help with that bit.
>> Sorry!
>>
>> Graham.
>>
>> On 3 January 2016 at 23:02, Skyler F <electricity...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am getting pretty frustrated. I have been working all day on this, and
>>> just can't get it to work.
>>>
>>> So I type service apache2 reload, and I get Job for apache2.service
>>> invalid?! Apache was working fine earlier but now, It won't even open up
>>> the apache test page when I type localhost on my system.
>>>
>>> When I run sudo -u kd0whb renderd -f -c /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf
>>> I get a bunch of syntax errors:
>>>
>>> renderd[5845]: Rendering daemon started
>>> renderd[5845]: Initiating reqyest_queue
>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (7):
>>> -> ;[renderd01]
>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (14):
>>> -> ;[renderd02]
>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (33):
>>> -> ;** config options used by mod_tile, but not renderd **
>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (45):
>>> -> ;[style2]
>>> iniparser: syntax error in /usr/local/etc/renderd.conf (52):
>>> -> ;** config options used by mod_tile, but not renderd **
>>>
>>> Isn't this symbol a comment "  ;   "  ?
>>> Why is it telling me syntax errors for the commented out lines?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Skyler F <electricity...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well here is the error log:
>>>>
>>>> [Sun Jan 03 10:17:11.032835 2016] [mpm_event:notice] [pid 17637:tid
>>>> 140426070529920] AH00489: Apache/2.4.12 (Ubuntu) configured -- resuming
>>>> normal operations
>>>> [Sun Jan 03 10:17:11.032907 2016] [core:notice] [pid 17637:tid
>>>> 140426070529920] AH00094: Command line: '/usr/sbin/apache2'
>>>> [Sun Jan 03 10:17:16.002678 2016] [mpm_event:notice] [pid 17637:tid
>>>> 140426070529920] AH00493: SIGUSR1 received.  Doing graceful restart
>>>> AH00558: apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully
>>>> qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1. Set the 'ServerName' directive
>>>> globally to suppress this message
>>>> [Sun Jan 03 10:17:16.005685 2016] [mpm_event:notice] [pid 17637:tid
>>>> 140426070529920] AH00489: Apache/2.4.12 (Ubuntu) configured -- resuming
>>>> normal operations
>>>> [Sun Jan 03 10:17:16.005693 2016] [core:notice] [pid 17637:tid
>>>> 140426070529920] AH00094: Command line: '/usr/sbin/apache2'
>>>> [Sun Jan 03 10:17:33.559173 2016] [mpm_

Re: [OSM-talk] Tile Server manual build 15.10 troubleshooting

[Graham Jones]

if you type "sudo apt-cache search libtiff" it lists all the packages that
are available with 'libtiff' in the title.  On my system it lists
libtiff5-dev, so I would suggest installing that.

Regards

Graham.

On 3 January 2016 at 16:38, Skyler F <electricity...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am attempting a manual build of a tile server on Ubuntu 15.10. I just
> did a fresh install of Ubuntu, and will post the results as I go along from
> this link:
>
> https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server-14-04/
>
> So, here is step 1:
>
>> sudo apt-get install libboost-all-dev subversion git-core tar unzip wget 
>> bzip2 build-essential autoconf libtool libxml2-dev libgeos-dev libgeos++-dev 
>> libpq-dev libbz2-dev libproj-dev munin-node munin libprotobuf-c0-dev 
>> protobuf-c-compiler libfreetype6-dev libpng12-dev libtiff4-dev libicu-dev 
>> libgdal-dev libcairo-dev libcairomm-1.0-dev apache2 apache2-dev libagg-dev 
>> liblua5.2-dev ttf-unifont lua5.1 liblua5.1-dev libgeotiff-epsg node-carto
>>
>>
> Here is the Result:
>
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Note, selecting 'libprotobuf-c-dev' instead of 'libprotobuf-c0-dev'
> Note, selecting 'libcairo2-dev' instead of 'libcairo-dev'
> Note, selecting 'liblua5.1-0-dev' instead of 'liblua5.1-dev'
> Package libtiff4-dev is not available, but is referred to by another
> package.
> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
> is only available from another source
> However the following packages replace it:
>   libtiff5-dev:i386 libtiff5-dev
>
> E: Package 'libtiff4-dev' has no installation candidate
>
> I don't want to mess this up on my fresh Ubuntu so I'll wait at every step
> until there is a solution.
> What should I try, Should I install the replacement package instead?
>
> Thanks,
> Skyler
>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] [Talk-GB] New St station platform alignments

[Graham Jones]

On 25 September 2015 at 22:41,  wrote:

> I can't remember ... has the track layout been changed yet? I know there
> were some plans to realign, but the core structure hasn't changed since
> first constructed?
>
I'm pretty sure there have been no changes to the tracks or major building
structures at station platform level - I didn't see any evidence of heavy
work like that on my travels anyway.

Graham.
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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] New St station platform alignments

[Graham Jones]

On 25 September 2015 at 22:41,  wrote:

> I can't remember ... has the track layout been changed yet? I know there
> were some plans to realign, but the core structure hasn't changed since
> first constructed?
>
I'm pretty sure there have been no changes to the tracks or major building
structures at station platform level - I didn't see any evidence of heavy
work like that on my travels anyway.

Graham.
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Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?

[Graham Jones]

I don't know where the discussion got to, but thought I should point out
that at least one road in North Yorkshire is a C road that is signposted as
such.
The road here does have signs with the C designation.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5696/-1.0016
I don't think I added it so at least one other person must agree!

Cheers

Graham

from my Phone (hence dodgy spelling!)
On 4 May 2015 01:20, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

 Hi

 I seem to remember there was general consensus that C class roads
 shouldn't have their reference number in the ref tag as they aren't really
 for public use, such as on signs or maps, but the official use of local
 councils etc.

 It was suggested, therefore, to swap them to a tag like off_ref, or some
 such similar. Was this agreed upon?

 If there is consensus I personally think this would be a valid use of a
 mass edit due to the large number http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/98Y Does
 anyone have experience of doing such a auto edit?

 Cheers
 Dave F.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Tablet, OpenStreetMap, navigator

[Graham Jones]

Yes, I use osmand for android too.

Hartlepool, UK (from my phone)
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Re: [Talk-GB] newbie questions about building outlines

[Graham Jones]

If vector map district outlines are good enough for your application you
could use it to render maps without importing it into osm - just merge the
osm and vector map district data when you render it into images.

Graham

Hartlepool, UK (from my phone)
On 29 Apr 2014 15:42, Brian Norman br...@earthware.co.uk wrote:

  Hi Everyone



 As a newbie contributor I was hoping to get some advice and wisdom before
 making a mess of things ;-). At the moment I am working on a commercial
 project that needs to show building outlines for inner London. I have done
 some simple analysis to try and identify the gaps in the London coverage
 and am looking at possible options for filling in the gaps. This is where I
 have a few questions:



 1)  Does anyone know if there has been a deliberate reason to not
 fill in the gaps with the generalized buildings from OS vectormap district?
 I can think of many reasons this might have been decided by the community
 but noticed that this has been done in other UK cities

  2)  We are working with our client to investigate the costs of
 adding the missing buildings to OSM by tracing the Bing imagery. My
 analysis shows there are at least 100,156 buildings present in the OS
 vector district data that don't overlap a building in the OSM data within
 the area we are considering but this is a very low estimate. Does anyone
 have any rough guide for a per building time to estimate the effort
 involved?

  3)  Is anyone aware of an company that are experienced in creating
 large volumes of OSM data from tracing aerial imagery?

  4)  Does anyone have any other recommended approaches?



 Thanks for any responses and please forgive my general ignorance



 Thanks

 Brian

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for Developers Presentation

[Graham Jones]

Kate,
I put together a little explanation of the rendering side of OSM a few
years ago:
http://www.slideshare.net/jones139/rendering-openstreetmap-data-using-mapnik
.
It might be out of date now though!

Graham.


On 21 February 2014 18:38, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.ukwrote:


 Hello Kate,

 I gave this talk at a British Computer Society meeting last year:

 http://www.free-map.org.uk/~nick/OSM_0313.odp

 Not hugely in-depth but might be of some use.

 Nick

 -Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: -
 To: osm talk@openstreetmap.org
 From: Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com
 Date: 21/02/2014 08:00AM
 Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM for Developers Presentation


 Hi All,

 I'm giving a talk this weekend at the Jakarta Python meet-up. I was
 wondering if anyone has a good Intro to OSM for Developers talk. I'm
 putting one together myself, but I'm looking to see what things others
 cover. Basically I want to give an overview of resources for
 developers, this isn't really a workshop just a 20 minute
 presentation.

 Thanks,

 -Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Power generation refinement approved

[Graham Jones]

 Reading JOSM's defaultpresets.xml I found a comment about mixed-up
 voltage values in the preset. Could someone please tell me the major
 voltages in use.

 If someone knows the voltages in use for railways/busses I am
 interested, too

I think it varies by country, but I am pretty sure that in the UK the newer
parts of the national grid run at 400kV and the older sections at 275kV.
The smaller overhead lines that you see on wooden poles are about 11kV.

I think overhead lines for railways are ~30kV.

Graham.
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[Talk-GB] Article in the I Newspaper

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
There was quite a nice article on map making and OSM in the I this morning
in case you haven't seen it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/are-mapbox-and-openstreetmaps-personalised-maps-the-future-of-cartography-8675498.html

Graham.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

 Middlesbrough has a lot more land use are surrounding it. But it's been
 done by as large areas of farmland to quickly fill in the blank canvas,
 and I'm not sure it has much ground-knowledge at all.

 I think I started that (or at least the bit to the West of Hartlepool).
It is pretty accurate - it is a large area of farmland.  Always
opportunities to add more detail though - when is a clump of trees part of
the farm, and when is it a natural=wood?
The biggest problem is deciding how to deal with edges of the areas - it is
neatest to share nodes, but it is a right pain to edit thenm once they are
joined together, so I think I kept a lot of them as separate nodes placed
very close together, but it does look as though there are noticable gaps
now.

I'll add some field boundaries when I get bored

GJ


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Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

I guess it depends on what you think is 'difficult' - to actually survey
them means a lot of walking, so I tend to only add the ones that I can
remember when I get home, and get the routes from Bing.

I have just had another look and for dry stone walls, it is quite easy to
distinguish some in Bing images, which lends itself to armchair mapping,
but it depends on the direction of the sun - I feel I need the shadow to be
confident that it is a wall I am looking at and not a track.  But a
reasonable guess that there is a feature there is probably more use than a
sheet full of nothingness...so I have just spent 20 mins with bing imagery
adding walls to a hillside that I know has lots of walls on it, and I had
started adding quite a few from my last visit (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.74429lon=-2.09388zoom=16layers=M).
  The suspicious gaps are where I can not tell/remember if there is a fence
to replace the apparently disappeared wall   Wire fences of course are
much harder to spot  I'll look for the errors next time I am there and
correct them...

Graham.

On 1 January 2013 11:15, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 My main motivation for getting involved with OSM was to get a better
 walking map on my garmin.   To this extent I have been adding lots of
 barriers in the southern part of the Peak District.  So it is being done.
  Whilst it is time consuming I wouldn't say it is difficult.  I do survey
 with a GPS and camera as much as possible, mainly on foot.  It can be
 difficult to determine the type of barrier from satellite imagery so having
 pictures to refer to makes it easier.  JOSM supports photo mapping really
 well.  You do need to check GPS tracks against the imagery and be prepared
 to adjust the imagery offset.  I wouldn't get overly concerned about the
 accuracy of the position of the barrier.  A fairly good job can be done
 with the existing tools available and people can always adjust as these
 improve.

 I must admit I don't map land use if it is farmland.  To me if it isn't
 mapped it is farmland.  It would seem a reasonable default.

 Please give barrier mapping a go as we are out there.

 Dudley



 Sent from my iPad

 On 31 Dec 2012, at 22:00, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would like to see field boundaries and land uses in OSM, for the same
 reason as you.   I think the main reason that there are not many in there,
 is that they are very difficult to survey.  I have just added them from
 memory when I have been able to remember enough - it is more realistic to
 add them now that we have high resolution Bing imagery for countryside
 areas, but it is a lot of work, even from an armchair.

 Graham.

 On 31 December 2012 21:17, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 Personally I would love to see fields (landuse) and the walls/fences that
 make this up marked on OSM but as per the Wiki this is a complicated area:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Land_use_and_areas_of_natural_land

 I mapped a small area with landuse and some fences months ago but
 refrained from doing anymore because not many others appear to be doing it.
 You can see what I did here:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.72508907318115lon=-1.7569917440414429zoom=17

 Some of this I need to fix, it was my early days of OSM editing.

 I would love to use OSM one day as a replacement for Explorer (25K) maps
 but until things like walls/fences are shown it would be hard to do. My
 idea was to use the OSM to produce some walking guides in printed or static
 form but they would need this data added for those areas.

 I know everyones view is different but do others on here use the landuse
 and barrier=fence tags in the same way or does it make it look too
 complicated.

 Steven

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Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

Thanks Steven,
I am pretty sure that any reference to Google maps/imagery is not allowed
(it would be worth searching through the mail archives for last time it was
discussed).
You are right though about the age of the Bing imagery - I noticed that the
cement works is still there in the photos.  I think I tagged it as
'Former' and used landuse=brownfield, which was the best I could think
of for what is there now.  Just proves the benefit of real surveys rather
than just tracing from the photos!

Graham.

On 1 January 2013 14:44, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 Good job there Graham. I know most of the area around there quite well.
 The Bing imagery is old, it still shows the cement works which was
 demolished in 2005 I think. Compare it to Google and you can see it is
 there no more. Although you can't use Google Satellite view to trace there
 is surely no harm in looking at it in another window to help identify if
 something is a wall or a fence then jumping back to Bing imagery to fill
 in, maybe that isn't allowed but you aren't drawing it from Google maps.
 You can see several of the bits you missed because you were unsure are
 clearly walls.

 Something I have been considering doing on walks is a timelapse using my
 GoPro, setting it to take pictures every few seconds which would aid in
 identifying later. The battery doesn't last long so it could only be used
 for an hour or so but I will give that a go next time. It has a wide POV so
 captures quite a lot.


 On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.comwrote:

 I guess it depends on what you think is 'difficult' - to actually survey
 them means a lot of walking, so I tend to only add the ones that I can
 remember when I get home, and get the routes from Bing.

 I have just had another look and for dry stone walls, it is quite easy to
 distinguish some in Bing images, which lends itself to armchair mapping,
 but it depends on the direction of the sun - I feel I need the shadow to be
 confident that it is a wall I am looking at and not a track.  But a
 reasonable guess that there is a feature there is probably more use than a
 sheet full of nothingness...so I have just spent 20 mins with bing imagery
 adding walls to a hillside that I know has lots of walls on it, and I had
 started adding quite a few from my last visit (
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.74429lon=-2.09388zoom=16layers=M).
   The suspicious gaps are where I can not tell/remember if there is a fence
 to replace the apparently disappeared wall   Wire fences of course are
 much harder to spot  I'll look for the errors next time I am there and
 correct them...

 Graham.


 On 1 January 2013 11:15, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 My main motivation for getting involved with OSM was to get a better
 walking map on my garmin.   To this extent I have been adding lots of
 barriers in the southern part of the Peak District.  So it is being done.
  Whilst it is time consuming I wouldn't say it is difficult.  I do survey
 with a GPS and camera as much as possible, mainly on foot.  It can be
 difficult to determine the type of barrier from satellite imagery so having
 pictures to refer to makes it easier.  JOSM supports photo mapping really
 well.  You do need to check GPS tracks against the imagery and be prepared
 to adjust the imagery offset.  I wouldn't get overly concerned about the
 accuracy of the position of the barrier.  A fairly good job can be done
 with the existing tools available and people can always adjust as these
 improve.

 I must admit I don't map land use if it is farmland.  To me if it isn't
 mapped it is farmland.  It would seem a reasonable default.

 Please give barrier mapping a go as we are out there.

 Dudley



 Sent from my iPad

 On 31 Dec 2012, at 22:00, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I would like to see field boundaries and land uses in OSM, for the same
 reason as you.   I think the main reason that there are not many in there,
 is that they are very difficult to survey.  I have just added them from
 memory when I have been able to remember enough - it is more realistic to
 add them now that we have high resolution Bing imagery for countryside
 areas, but it is a lot of work, even from an armchair.

 Graham.

 On 31 December 2012 21:17, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.comwrote:

 Personally I would love to see fields (landuse) and the walls/fences
 that make this up marked on OSM but as per the Wiki this is a complicated
 area:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Land_use_and_areas_of_natural_land

 I mapped a small area with landuse and some fences months ago but
 refrained from doing anymore because not many others appear to be doing it.
 You can see what I did here:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.72508907318115lon=-1.7569917440414429zoom=17

 Some of this I need to fix, it was my early days of OSM editing.

 I would love to use OSM one day as a replacement

Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

While I agree that high data density is an issue, I can't see why this is a
strong argument for not tagging land use in rural areas, as even if we do
draw big polygons to distinguish farmed land from woodland from moors from
scree slopes etc, these areas are so big that it doesn't make rural data
that much more complicated, and it will still be much much simpler than a
major city centre.

Unless of course we are talking about drawing a polygon for each individual
field, which would seem excessive - I am just thinking of a polygon for the
general area.

Graham.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Byway between Muston and Belvoir (was Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM)

[Graham Jones]

I have had similar issues, but without the abusive farmer in your part of
the world? (Weardale).  My old OS map said the Weardale w
Way went through this field, and there was a waymark at the junction with
the road, but once in the (very large!) field, there was no obvious way out
- just rusty gates and barbed wire - I think the route was changed, but
they didn't take down all the old waymarks, which left a lot of paths to
nowhere.   Can't remember how I mapped that in the end

Graham.



 I had walked across his field according to the map which was a couple of
 years old and got to the end of the field to find a padlocked gate. I
 returned back to the sign and it was pointing in a different direction
 (straight ahead) and also had 3 way markers all pointing straight ahead. I
 presumed the route had been changed so followed the arrow after a about 50
 yards I heard various abuse from over the wall. The farmer was angry that
 we weren't following the map and could we read one. We explained (or tried
 to) but he said the gate was someone elses and that was the only way we
 could go. There were no visible paths on the ground in any direction.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Byway between Muston and Belvoir (was Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM)

[Graham Jones]

Even smaller - I am pretty sure the problem I had was just to the North of
Stanhope

You are right, there are plenty of opportunities to add footpaths to
Weardale.
I concentrated on the Weardale Way (which you can see on Lonvia's Hiking
Map if you are interested (
http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=11lat=54.72073lon=-1.8885)).

When we met a branching footpath I tried to record a short stub to show it
is there, but we have not followed most of them.There is also a marked
'Mineral Valley's Walk' through the area that we will probably try to
follow during 2013but there are huge numbers of 'normal' public
footpaths too.my challenge is trying to incorporate these into a nice
walk, as we don't tend to go 'mapping' - we go for a walk, and I take my
GPX receiver with me!

Cheers


Graham.



On 31 December 2012 16:20, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 It's a small world, the incident I described was also in Weardale near
 Thimbleby Hill South of Stanhope. I didn't use OSM then and checking OSM
 the path is not marked. A path on the opposite side of the wall where the
 farmer was stood is marked which is incorrect and will lead to someone else
 being shouted at unless I fix it.

 There is a massive job to add all of the paths in Weardale to OSM. I will
 gradually add them as I am out walking. I have GPX tracks of many previous
 walks and good records.

 Steven


 On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.comwrote:

 I have had similar issues, but without the abusive farmer in your part of
 the world? (Weardale).  My old OS map said the Weardale w
 Way went through this field, and there was a waymark at the junction with
 the road, but once in the (very large!) field, there was no obvious way out
 - just rusty gates and barbed wire - I think the route was changed, but
 they didn't take down all the old waymarks, which left a lot of paths to
 nowhere.   Can't remember how I mapped that in the end

 Graham.




 I had walked across his field according to the map which was a couple of
 years old and got to the end of the field to find a padlocked gate. I
 returned back to the sign and it was pointing in a different direction
 (straight ahead) and also had 3 way markers all pointing straight ahead. I
 presumed the route had been changed so followed the arrow after a about 50
 yards I heard various abuse from over the wall. The farmer was angry that
 we weren't following the map and could we read one. We explained (or tried
 to) but he said the gate was someone elses and that was the only way we
 could go. There were no visible paths on the ground in any direction.


 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.




 --
 www.stevenhorner.com  http://www.stevenhorner.com
  @stevenhorner http://twitter.com/stevenhorner
  0191 645 2265
  stevenhorner




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Re: [Talk-GB] Byway between Muston and Belvoir (was Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM)

[Graham Jones]

Fair point - I'm not really sure what I would tag it as though!

Frosterley and 
Stanhopehttp://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=12lat=54.74591lon=-2.0121
are
fairly major places with pubs - not sure about wifi though.

Graham.



On 31 December 2012 18:56, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I tried searching on Weardale but there doesn't appear to be a POI marking
 the Dale!

 For those that know this area where would make a good base for walking and
 also have a Pub with wifi for updating OSM in the evening?

 Thanks

 Dudley

 Sent from my iPad

 On 31 Dec 2012, at 16:47, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Even smaller - I am pretty sure the problem I had was just to the North of
 Stanhope

 You are right, there are plenty of opportunities to add footpaths to
 Weardale.
 I concentrated on the Weardale Way (which you can see on Lonvia's Hiking
 Map if you are interested (
 http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=11lat=54.72073lon=-1.8885)).


 When we met a branching footpath I tried to record a short stub to show it
 is there, but we have not followed most of them.There is also a marked
 'Mineral Valley's Walk' through the area that we will probably try to
 follow during 2013but there are huge numbers of 'normal' public
 footpaths too.my challenge is trying to incorporate these into a nice
 walk, as we don't tend to go 'mapping' - we go for a walk, and I take my
 GPX receiver with me!

 Cheers


 Graham.



 On 31 December 2012 16:20, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 It's a small world, the incident I described was also in Weardale near
 Thimbleby Hill South of Stanhope. I didn't use OSM then and checking OSM
 the path is not marked. A path on the opposite side of the wall where the
 farmer was stood is marked which is incorrect and will lead to someone else
 being shouted at unless I fix it.

 There is a massive job to add all of the paths in Weardale to OSM. I will
 gradually add them as I am out walking. I have GPX tracks of many previous
 walks and good records.

 Steven


 On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Graham Jones 
 grahamjones...@gmail.comwrote:

 I have had similar issues, but without the abusive farmer in your part
 of the world? (Weardale).  My old OS map said the Weardale w
 Way went through this field, and there was a waymark at the junction
 with the road, but once in the (very large!) field, there was no obvious
 way out - just rusty gates and barbed wire - I think the route was changed,
 but they didn't take down all the old waymarks, which left a lot of paths
 to nowhere.   Can't remember how I mapped that in the end

 Graham.




 I had walked across his field according to the map which was a couple
 of years old and got to the end of the field to find a padlocked gate. I
 returned back to the sign and it was pointing in a different direction
 (straight ahead) and also had 3 way markers all pointing straight ahead. I
 presumed the route had been changed so followed the arrow after a about 50
 yards I heard various abuse from over the wall. The farmer was angry that
 we weren't following the map and could we read one. We explained (or tried
 to) but he said the gate was someone elses and that was the only way we
 could go. There were no visible paths on the ground in any direction.


 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.




 --
 www.stevenhorner.com  http://www.stevenhorner.com
  @stevenhorner http://twitter.com/stevenhorner
  0191 645 2265
  stevenhorner




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

I would like to see field boundaries and land uses in OSM, for the same
reason as you.   I think the main reason that there are not many in there,
is that they are very difficult to survey.  I have just added them from
memory when I have been able to remember enough - it is more realistic to
add them now that we have high resolution Bing imagery for countryside
areas, but it is a lot of work, even from an armchair.

Graham.

On 31 December 2012 21:17, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 Personally I would love to see fields (landuse) and the walls/fences that
 make this up marked on OSM but as per the Wiki this is a complicated area:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Land_use_and_areas_of_natural_land

 I mapped a small area with landuse and some fences months ago but
 refrained from doing anymore because not many others appear to be doing it.
 You can see what I did here:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.72508907318115lon=-1.7569917440414429zoom=17

 Some of this I need to fix, it was my early days of OSM editing.

 I would love to use OSM one day as a replacement for Explorer (25K) maps
 but until things like walls/fences are shown it would be hard to do. My
 idea was to use the OSM to produce some walking guides in printed or static
 form but they would need this data added for those areas.

 I know everyones view is different but do others on here use the landuse
 and barrier=fence tags in the same way or does it make it look too
 complicated.

 Steven

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Re: [Talk-GB] Yorkshire Dales or Forest of Bowland - unmapped areas?

[Graham Jones]

I'd recommend a bit further North - Weardale is one of my favourites at the
moment (around Stanhope or Froserley).  I'm pretty sure you can get a bus
from Darlington or Bishop Auckland.   There is still plenty to do - the
Weardale Way is complete, but there are loads of footpaths branching off it
that are just stubs, and a marked Mineral Valleys Walk which needs
following.   A nice mixture of scenery and industrial archaeology if you
like that sort of thing!

Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] mapbook v0.02

[Graham Jones]

Hi Stefan,
Unfortunately I got distracted and it has not got any further than a
prototype.

The idea is that there is a web front end to allow you to select the map
you would like to be produced (map style, paper size, contours, hill
shading etc), and any number of renderer computers will look at it to see
if there is a request for them.   It will then render the map and up load
it to the web server.   It is quite similar to maposmatic, but the idea is
that there are more facilities to customise the map.

I gave up on using fancy libraries like codeigniter/bonfire because it was
taking too long to learn, so it is a very simple home made php based web
front end.   The daemon that runs on the renderer computers is written in
python and does the data handling (things like creating contours and hill
shading).

The code is at https://github.com/jones139/disrend.

If there is interest in developing this, I could move it up my list of
things to do.

Regards


Graham.


On 6 November 2012 18:46, Stefan Keller sfkel...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Graham

 I'm curious: Is it ready now?

 2012/3/10 Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com:
  Excellent - thanks Paul.
  I have nearly finished a web service that will allow users to select an
 area
  and generate a book using your programWill be a week or two before
 it is
  ready though
 
  Graham.
 
 
  On 10 March 2012 05:03, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:
 
  I have completed an overhaul to my mapbook program, making it easier to
  extend and adding new features.
 
  This program, available at https://github.com/pnorman/mapbook, will
 create
  a
  PDF with a title page, an index map showing the coverage of the book and
  what page covers what area, then individual map pages, each page having
  arrows indicating which page is in which direction. It also includes an
  attribution page. An example for Vancouver, BC is available at
  http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/mapbook/vancouver.pdf
 
  Mapbook will work with any mapnik .xml style and can generate
  high-resolution maps that print well
 
  Requirements:
 
  Python 2.7
  Mapnik2
  Cairo
 
  Most osm mapnik styles will also require a postgis database created with
  osm2pgsql
 
 
 
 
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  Hartlepool, UK.
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey for people with color vision deficiencies about the street classes in OSM's Mapnik style

[Graham Jones]

Hi Johannes,
Thank you for doing this - I look forward to seeing the results.

Colour vision is one of my interests, as I have a lot of trouble with
distinguishing colours, and I have been meaning to make a service to filter
map tiles through a colour vision simulation...but I have never got around
to it - have been carrying the research papers up and down the country for
the last 6 months, but haven't done anything with them  I did produce a
FM-100 simulation in java a while back, but yours is much better!

I don't know if I missed this subtlety in your examples because of my
colour vision problems, but I would have been more inclined to vary the
thickness of the casing around the road - it is quite a good indicator of
its 'importance', and you can make roads look different without using up
more colours - you could stick to nice bold colours (pastel colours are
nasty - all look the same!).
It is clear from your tests that you have realised that thicker is much
easier than thin, but of course the map does not look so nice that way.

Regards

Graham.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Find My Nearest Cash Machine

[Graham Jones]

 Seem Graham beat me to publishing a map of the ATMs:
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/230



But yours looks nicer, and doesn't have odd references to breweries mixed
in with ATMs!

When I looked at doing this I struggled with banks - how do we know if they
have ATMs or not?  Some have them tagged explicitly as separate nodes, but
not sure what to assume if there is only an 'amenity=bank'.

Cheers

Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMapWidget

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
I have tested it on my desktop computer now, and it is looking very good (I
haven't had chance to look at the android problems yet).  The ability to
move the start point for directions is really useful.

I wonder if it could use a little 'help' button that would pop up a dialog
with a bit more information for the end user?   The dialog could also
include a 'please help improve this map' link to the OSM wiki?

Thanks


Graham.

On 11 August 2012 18:25, Aleksandra Milanovic
sandraa.milano...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi guys,

 can you give me an opinion on the latest changes I've made on my GSoC
 project (http://sandra-milanovic.github.com/OpenStreetMapWidget/) ?
 Additional options are in the right click (longpress for mobile) menu.
 If you have some difficulties, please share them with me.

 Thanks,
 Sandra

 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:43 PM, Claudius claudiu...@gmx.de wrote:
  Am 19.06.2012 09:06, Matthias Meisser:
 
  Great idea Sandra,
 
  at FF13 there seem to be a little bug, that you can't pan the map, when
  you try to grab them in the upper area of the map (where the buttons are
  on the right), as the browser trys to select the buttons.
 
 
  Reason for that is the width: 80%; statement in the #toolbar CSS
 markup.
  No idea why you actually need to define the toolbar width. Scales well
  without, but I haven't tested cross-browser.
 
  Claudius
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMapWidget

[Graham Jones]

I am having the same trouble with android.  Earlier versions worked though
so I am sure it can be fixed.

Graham
On 12 Aug 2012 16:57, Manfred A. Reiter ma.rei...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Aleksandra,

 2012/8/12 Aleksandra Milanovic sandraa.milano...@gmail.com:
  @Pavel:
  the idea was to make an extensively simple app for giving your
  location via SMS and email. The advance features are hidden because I
  didn't want to fill up the space with additional buttons.
  The buttons are slightly bigger, because it was more difficult to
  press them on most of the touch phones.
  Thank you for the suggestions. I take them as a serious insight,
  especially from the aspect of small screen smartphones.
  I'll see what I can do to improve the UI elements.
 

 thank you very much for the nice tool.

 For me it works absolutely perfect on a desktop.
 No complains about the right mouse-button. ;-)

 On my Android smartphone it doesn't work at all. :-(
 ... but I don't know, that I would like to have it on
 the smartphone. On the desktop it is a phantastic
 tool. Once more thank you. ;-)

 Manfred

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Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data

[Graham Jones]

 For example in my area (Newcastle/Gateshead) I've worked to get good
 surveys
 and mapping of the NCN72, but the NCN14 on the south side of the river is
 very patchy and isn't mapped at all for large stretches.

 Sounds like I had better go for a bike ride Up North then.   I thought it
NCN14 was complete all the way to Newcastle, so I will ride it one weekend
once summer arrives..

Graham.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMapWidget

[Graham Jones]

Hi Sandra,
It is looking good!

The location detection works well on my Android Phone, but the 'send by
SMS' does not work. The email link option works fine.  I have raised an
issue on your Github repository (
https://github.com/Sandra-Milanovic/OpenStreetMapWidget/issues ).

The other thing that I would find useful is the ability to select which map
tile background to use - could this be selectable too?  Again I raised an
issue for you.

Regards


Graham.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Permissive paths and uncrecorded rights of way

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
If there is a path on the ground but nothing to say it is a public footpath
etc, I just tag it as highway=path with no designation.

Graham

On 26 Apr 2012 16:29, cotswolds mapper osmcotswo...@gmail.com wrote:

[New here (to OSM, not to mapping), so I'm not sure if I'm making this
point in the right way or the right place. It's effectively a comment on
the UK wiki changes, but I can't see how to reply to that thread.]

It's been bothering me for a while that there is a gap in tagging
guidelines relating to well-used (and possibly long-standing) paths that
are not official rights of way.  Certainly a newcomer reading the
guidelines could get the impression that everything is one of RoW,
permissive path or unknown, and I don't think that is true.

Two examples from the area I'm working in (Cotswolds between
Stroud/Cirencester/Birdlip).

1) There is a path through a wood I have been using on and off for nearly
twenty years. It's clearly well used, mainly by dog walkers. There are no
signs indicating the wood is private, and they are using it as of right. If
someone tried to close it, I'm pretty sure it could be proved that a right
of way exists.

2) In several villages (e.g. Eastcombe) I have found public 'ways' which
are not official RoWs:
On OS 1:25k maps (both historic and modern) they are shown as white roads.
They feel like public rather than private land, with dry stone walls on
both sides, and no stiles or gates or restrictions.
'Proper' rights of way branch off them.
They are maintained at public expense (parish council workman cuts the
grass twice a year, and sometimes there's a tarmac strip), and are well
used (because the roads are narrow with no pavement).
I would expect them to be ORPAs, but mostly they are not, and I have found
too many for it to be an OS transcription error.

In both cases, 'permissive' is completely inappropriate because people have
used these ways as of right for many years, but they are not status unknown.

More generally, I have read that there are thousands of miles of
'lost/unrecorded' RoW in... (England? UK? ... can't remember), and OSM
mappers should be finding some of these. While all sorts of tags are
possible for the experienced, the novice is likely to restrict themselves
to wiki options.

At the moment, the wiki reads to me as if 'permissive' is the fall through
option once you have established that a way is not a RoW.  IMO mappers
should be discouraged from thinking like that and only record a way as
'permissive' if there is clear evidence that it is not used as of right.
(And also be open to the idea that permissive signs may be wrong, but
that's for another thread...)

I think there then needs to be a tag (or two) for other ways that are not
RoW, but not clearly permissive. For my first example, maybe 'traditional'
or 'informal' would do.

For my second example, which seems to me an obvious example of something
falling through the crack between the council road's department and RoW
department, I would be inclined to use 'de facto RoW', because it's hard to
imagine anyone disputing the use, but there would need to be a high
standard of evidence on the ground to use that term.

Rob

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[OSM-talk] GSoC Projects Announcement

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,  [sorry for posting to both dev and talk, but I thought that this
may be of wider interest]

I am very pleased to announce that the projects selected for this year's
Google Summer of Code have been announced.

This year OSM received a record 28 good proposal applications for the 6
student places that we were given.   This meant that we had some very
difficult decisions to make and some students who made very good proposals
had to be turned down.   Although this will obviously be disappointing for
those whose projects have not been selected, I hope that they will be able
to contribute to the project in their spare time.

I would like to thank all the community members who have helped to review
the proposals and choose the 6 projects to be part of this year's programme
with OSM - their reviewing of the proposals was essential to helping us
make the right choices.

The selected OSM projects are:

   - Anomaly Detection Engine (Velkei Adam Istvan) [Mentored by Derick
   Rethans]
   - Improved Support for non-Latin Languates in mapnik (Hermann Krauss)
   [Mentored by Dane Springmayer]
   - Improvements to Vespucci (Jan Schejbal) [Mentored by Marcus Wolschon]
   - OSM Widget Creator ( Aleksandra Milanovic) [Mentored by Kate Chapman]
   - Tile Data Service (Michael Daines) [Mentored by  Darafei Praliaskouski
   (Komzpa)]
   - Video Based Speed Limit and Road Sign Detector plugin for JSOM (Nikhil
   Upadhye) [Mentored By Kai Krueger]

We will be asking the students to set up pages on the OSM wiki, and post
regular updates to the osm-dev mailing list so you will be able to see how
they are getting on.

I would like to wish he students and their mentors good look with their
projects!

Regards


Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Android Phonegap App

[Graham Jones]

Hi.
I have never used phonegap, but one of the 2010 google summer of code
projects did, so you may be able to pick up something from that (search the
wiki for gsoc).  Another looked at a javascript editor, and that used oauth
authentication, so it would be worth a loom too.

Graham

from my phone

On 16 Apr 2012 13:48, David Serenity debuk...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all,

I am new to osm and phonegap development. I have not found much
documentation on making calls to OSM api from an android phonegap app. I am
especially interested in creating changesets and uploading map data (form
entries and coordinates) to OSM. i tried ajax calls to the api and have run
into same origin policy restrictions and the url ( *
http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/create*) is not found.
i have used the code below:

function loadIt()
{

var xmlData = 'osmchangesettag k=created_by v=EasyMappr /tag
k=comment v=Ah please do it //changeset/osm';

var url = http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/create;;

$.ajax({
  type:PUT,
  username: debuk...@gmail.com,
   password: lettersforme,
  url: url,
  data: xmlData,

   error: function(xhr, textStatus, errorThrown) {
 if (xhr.status === 0) {
alert('Not connect.\n Verify Network.' + textStatus);
} else if (xhr.status == 404) {
alert('Requested page not found. [404]');
} else if (xhr.status == 500) {
alert('Internal Server Error [500].');
} else if (textStatus === 'parsererror') {
alert('Requested JSON parse failed.');
} else if (textStatus === 'timeout') {
alert('Time out error.');
} else if (textStatus === 'abort') {
alert('Ajax request aborted.');
} else {
alert('Uncaught Error.\n' + xhr.responseText);
}
  },
  success : function(result) {
alert(Its done + result);

}
 });


  }



If anyone can provide any ideas or code, please share?

Regards,
David

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Re: [OSM-talk] Traffic simulation Modeling using OSM data

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
This sounds like a really interesting idea - it is something I have always
had the idea of doing, but have never got around to it - I would like to
re-create the effect of someone touching their brakes on a busy road,
leading to someone  doing an emergency stop 2km further back.

The OpenStreetMap part of the proposal is however quite minor - it is only
really providing you with the network - the 'interesting' part of the
proposal is the simulation.
Therefore by all means submit the idea to OSM and we will consider it along
side the other proposals, but it might be worth seeing if there is a
numerical simulation project that has been accepted to GSoC that you could
apply to as well, in case it is not accepted as part of OSM?

Regards

Graham.

On 3 April 2012 11:38, sourav dutta mailsouravdu...@gmail.com wrote:


 Hi,
 Sorry for mailing in so late, i came to know about Gsoc few days ago.
 I am Undergraduate doing my Btech-Hons for IIIT - Hyderabad. I have worked
 in OCR, Vision,(Sfm) ,Image Processing,Information retrieval.

 OSM data have been used for path finding...with A star algo etc.but it is
 never used for simulation of traffic.

 Traffic monitoring and simulation has been worked on for some time now.
 There are very elaborate systems like MITSIM which gather data from
 various sources  and  design a traffic model. But the problem is it is
 very difficult to implement them. The information about the streets,
 traffic
 data, satellite data etc. is difficult to gather.
  My idea is to design a traffic simulation using OSM data. as the OSM
 data is readily available and is available in many formats. To model the
 traffic probabilistic or network flow models are popular. But to get a
 more accurate simulation want to use  multiple vehicles as bots interacting
 with
 each other.
 A basic overview of my idea ...

 1) first we need the area where want the simulation to run. This would be
 done by defining a rectangular region in the map. This data can be stored
in posgreSQL which will make it easier to use the data.
 2) Next we define for all the bots - source and destination and this find
 the appropriate path(A star) to go.
 3) At the heart of the simulation we need to have a engine which would
 handle the collision etc. and directs the bots etc. I have tried a few
 physics
engine but their performance degrades steeply decreases with the
 increase of number of objects.
 4)  So I want to use my own engine with only few rules for collision etc.
 The brute for implementation would require to check each bot with other bot
( the same thing which makes other engines slow O(n^2) ). But i plan to
 use a implementation of KD-tree, ANN(Approximate nearest neighbour) Open
   source  implementation of the same exists and works pretty well. This
 would allow the matching to be done in O(nlogn).
ANN implementation (http://www.cs.umd.edu/~mount/ANN/)
 5) To manage the interaction of the bots the memory requirements
 skyrockets as the number of bots increases. ie why i wish to treat them as
 Multi-Agent-System
 There are nice implementations of distributed multi-agent framework
 which use shared memory to manage the agents( bots in our case).
 6)  congestions , bottlenecks and collisions can thus be detected. In the
 streets.
 7) Future Works - Once this frameworks is complete data from other sources
 like the traffic lights flyovers etc.. can be incorporated in the existing
 system.

 --
 Sourav Dutta
 CSE,UG3
 IIIT H


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[OSM-talk] GSoC Update

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
[apologies for cross posting - all future mails from me about this year's
GSoC will be on the dev list, but I'm not sure if everyone relevant
subscribes to the dev list, so sent this to talk too].

We are starting to get some proposals for Google Summer of Code projects
posted by students now.

It would be great if anyone else who is willing to help with mentoring
would would sign up as soon as possible and help us with the selection of
the projects.   If we start reviewing the proposals now we have the chance
to ask the students to clarify issues with their proposals or suggest
improvements, before the deadline for changing proposals in about a week.

If you would like to help, please sign up on the Google Summer of Code web
site http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012, and
drop myself and Ian Dees an email so we know who you are, as sometimes we
get requests from people we have never heard of.

I would also be grateful if anyone who has been involved with mentoring
previously would sign up, even if you do not have time to do it this year,
to provide your insights on the proposals given your previous experience.

Thanks


Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] GSOC-2012 Application

[Graham Jones]

Hi Nikhil,
Thank you for your interest in OSM.  I am glad you are familiarising
yourself with OSM before applying for GSoC.

Are there any particular things you would like guidance on?

There is a template on the Google GSoC  application page showing the things
we would like to see in your project proposal, and I have also linked a
'processes' page from our project ideas page to you can see how GSoC works
- basically you do not need to find yourself a mentor - we match mentors to
projects as part of the application review process.

Regards


Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC 2012 - Regarding CycleStreets Projects

[Graham Jones]

Pryanka,
If you have not heard from the author of cyclestreets, it would be worth
looking at other OSM routers which are open source.  Search our wiki for
routers or routing.  You should find things like gosmore and osrm.
You coold experiment with them to see how they do with cycling or walking
routing.   There was a gsoc project a couple of years ago to calculate the
'hilliness' of routes - you could look at including that into the routing
algorithm too?   You will have to remember that some people will want to go
over hills and others avoid them.
The surface of tracks could also be a good parameter for cycle routing if
existing routers so not use this.

Just a few thoughts so you can work up a gsoc proposal if cyclestreets does
not get back to you,  or if you would prefer to work on a different route
calculator.

Graham

from my phone

On 23 Mar 2012 06:17, Priyanka priyanka.mengh...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks Graham :-)

If the mentors of the Cyle Streets projects are reading this, please
let me know. I would be delighted to discuss the 'Less Wiggly Routes'
project with you. :-)

Thanks  Regards,
Priyanka


On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
wrote:
 Hi Pryanka,
 I h...
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Re: [OSM-talk] About the GSOC Project - OSM Application for Android -Need Some Help

[Graham Jones]

Hi
You can pick whichever application you want as the basis of your project
proposal.   I put some notes in one of the Android project ideas saying
what I think should be included in the proposal.  It would be worth bearing
those in mind as you prepare your proposal.   Please submit a draft early
so we have chance to review it and ask questions before the deadline.

Thanks!

Graham

Regards

Graham

from my phone

On 23 Mar 2012 15:55, Andun Sameera andun...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all,

I have found that you have given a new potential android application
which can be used as our source of project. That is
https://github.com/CUTR-at-USF/OpenTripPlanner-for-Android/wiki. The
first major application you have given for this project was
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.cyclestreets. I have
cloned the git repository of both of these projects and analyze the
both projects. According to my understanding the OpenTripPlanner for
Android is look professional than the Cycle street map. Please correct
me if I am wrong. So what do you prefer as the best application?
Also the project I have done in my uni (Travel Ceylon - Trip Planner
for Sri Lanka -
http://insightforfuture.blogspot.com/2012/01/travel-ceylon-travel-palnner-for-sri.html
)
looks similar to the OpenTripPlanner for Android. So I have some new
features which can strength that more and more.

Also when I run the OpenTripPlanner for Android app a error raises at
the LogCat saying,

03-23 21:12:40.535: E/OTP(358): No route to display!

What will be the problem ?

Please help me to proceed further.

Thank You
Andun Sameera
undergraduate
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
University Of Moratuwa
Sri Lanka

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Re: [OSM-talk] About the GSOC Project - OSM Application for Android -Need Some Help

[Graham Jones]

If the application does not have its own mailing list or issue tracker, you
can try here,  but for specific questions about the program, it would be
best to try to get in touch with the developers of the program.

Graham

from my phone

On 23 Mar 2012 16:15, Andun Sameera andun...@gmail.com wrote:

Thank You Very Much Sir I will do as you said Sir,

Also where can I talk about those technical questions raised related
to those application sir? Things like errors,faults in the
application.


Thank You

Andun Sameera
Undergraduate
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
University Of...

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
wrote:
 Hi
 You can pick ...
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Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC 2012 Application

[Graham Jones]

Hi.  Sounds like an interesting idea.
You do not need to find a mentor.
You just need to prepare a prokect proposal and submit it on the google
GSoC site.   Very good to discuss it here too though!
We match potential mentors to projects as part of the selection process.

Hope that helps.

Graham

from my phone

On 23 Mar 2012 16:44, Ishan Agrawal ishan.agrawa...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all,

I had some ideas regarding this project. I am not sure who to and how to
approach for mentorship on this project.



Games based on OSM data
I wanted to work on a game idea that I have thought of which I call
infectious. It focuses on real time movement of a person in a city. There
are two groups (for eg. disease and cure) and every person belongs to
either group. Whenever two people from different groups come in close
proximity they can convert the other guy into their own group. The person
who converts the most people wins or the whole group could win also. So
essentially the spread happens like a contact based virus would spread in a
community. Singapore is a great place to start this game too, since
Singapore has the highest smartphone density in the world, its small enough
to run country wide campaign in the game and 3G works even in underground
trains, and people usually play these games during daily commutes. I am
really excited to build this game using OSM data. I can build this on
OSMAnd using live tracking and Map viewing features of the app.

I would really like to discuss this further.

Regards,
Ishan Agrawal





On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Ishan Agrawal ishan.agrawa...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi All,
...

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Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC 2012 - Application

[Graham Jones]

Hi Shivansh,
If you look at the OSM wiki and search for SVN, you will find the links to
the SVN and GIT repositories for the main OSM code (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SVN ).

It sounds as though your thoughts on what the 'widgets' project idea is
about are slightly different to what I thought the proposer was thinking
of.   I think you are thinking of an interactive map where the user can
interact with map elements to see more information?
In which case I would recommend looking up kothicjs, which is a client side
map renderer.  I am sure that code could be extended to add this sort of
functionality?   It also sounds like a good idea to me - I know a few
people are using kothicjs now.

I thought that the 'widget' idea was more about making it easy for
non-techical users to add maps to blogs etc.   In that case you do not
really need the main OSM code - you will need to use a map display
javascript library (openlayers.org or leaflet.cloudmade.com), and get that
to interact with the blog software etc.

I think either of these would make good GSoC project proposals.

Regards


Graham.

On 22 March 2012 06:43, Shivansh Srivastava shivansh.b...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Graham,

 Thank you for your reply  insights.

 I have already made my account,  was browsing through the Wiki.
 Could you give me a link to the svn, so that I can familiarize myself with
 the working of the code.

 I have various jQuery (Javascripts) + CSS based ideas in mind.

 1. Interactive jQuery Dialog box - the widget can be loaded  it would
 give a brief description about the place.
 2. MouseOver Effect - When mouseover some geographical unit, that
 part/area will cjane country, when viewed from a large distance.
 3. jQuery Tooltip - a descriptive message which passes html element as a
 parameter onmouseover.
 4. Any other such UI which comes to mind from anyone in the community?

 Could you please send me the link to the git/repo which I need to fork
 out, to get familiar with the project.

 Also, I couldnt find the desired repo on -https://github.com/cyclestreets -
 for the routing panel. If I am missing out on any link, please direct me to
 it.

 Cheers,

 On 19 March 2012 12:51, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 Thank you for your interest in applying for GSoC with Openstreetmap.
 I am sure the person that raised that project idea will reply with some
 more information, but here are a few thougts from me.
 - It is important to understand the fundamentals of what OSM is, so
 please start by creating an account and making some improvements to the map
 in your local area.
 - It would also be good to look at the data structure so that you
 appreciate that OSM is really a database of geographic information which
 can be turned into map images.  Details of the xml file format can be found
 on our wiki - Provision of map tile images is a secondary service, and a
 number of companies provide map tiles based on OSM data.
 - I would be very keen on any 'end user' applications like this one
 having clear links to a 'how to improve this map' page to help encourage
 contributions, not just use the data.
 - In terms of your specific questions on the project idea, the idea
 listed quite a few features that could be made available - I would search
 for these things on the osm wiki to see what is available at the moment,
 which you could integrate into widgets.
 - I am not familiar with widgets for blogs etc, but as you say, I think
 they are javascript programmes which interact with both the host
 environment (wiki, blog etc) and the osm based service.   I think it should
 be possible to make it a stand alone system where you can say 'copy this
 code into your website'?  From your mail I think you know more than me
 about this bit though!

 Hope that helps.   Please feel free to ask more questions as you develop
 your proposal.

 Regards

 Graham

 from my phone

 On 19 Mar 2012 03:18, Shivansh Srivastava shivansh.b...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi,

 I am Shivansh, pursuing Engineering at BITS Pilani, currently in my 3rd
 year.

 I am well versed in Web Technologies, that include HTML5, JavaScripts
 (jQuery),
 CSS; with PHP  MySQL and App Development for Windows Phone 7.

 I have worked in my college on several websites with the same knowledge.
 I had
 also given a talk at the 3rd WikiConference held at Mumbai on Improving
 Wiki UI
 using AJAX  jQuery  presented 4 ideas/projects with the Wiki community.

 I am interested in pursuing the *OSM Widget Creator* listed on the Ideas
 page.

 I have a few queries regarding the same-

 1. Most of it can be done through javascript (more effectively through
 jQuery).
 But since I am new to OSM, I want to know how would I work on it? Would
 it be in
 a similar way as MediaWiki, by downloading the software  developing, or
 working on
 my user common.js?

 2. Could I also be enlightened on the kinds of widget expected to be
 developed?

 I would like to take the opportunity to learn as much

Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC 2012 - Regarding CycleStreets Projects

[Graham Jones]

Hi
Please just use this list so that others can share opinions on the project
too.  So feel free to ask your questions here.

Thanks

Graham

from my phone

On 21 Mar 2012 07:18, Priyanka priyanka.mengh...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

I am a prospective GSoC 2012 applicant, and I am interested in
applying for the CycleStreets projects.

However, on the idea page, I do not find any link to contact the
mentor(s) for this project. Am I missing something? I would be
grateful if the information could be shared.

--
Thanks  Regards
Priyanka M

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Re: [OSM-talk] About GSOC 2012

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
Thank you for your interest in applying for GSoC with Openstreetmap.   This
list will be fine to ask questions.

Here are a few suggestions to get you started:

- It is important to understand the fundamentals of what OSM is, so if you
have not done so before, please start by creating an account and making
some improvements to the map in your local area.

- It would also be good to look at the OSM data structure.  Details of the
xml file format can be found on our wiki.

- The next stage is for you to develop a project proposal - our ideas
pagehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2012 lists
quite a few ideas, but these need some development to turn them into a
successful project proposal - you should be able to see our application
template on the Google GSoC web site.

Hope that helps.   Please feel free to ask more questions as you develop
your proposal.

Regards

Graham

On 21 March 2012 15:39, Andun Sameera andun...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi All,

 I am a undergrad of University of Moratuwa Sri Lanka. I read your
 descriptions of the GSOC ideas. I did several project which use maps
 and manipulates maps. So I am really interested in doing a project
 with you for this years GSOC. So can I discuss relevant thing in this
 mailing list?

 Can You Please provide me more details?

 Thank You

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[OSM-talk] GSoC Application Process

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
Based on a couple of emails I have seen lately, I think I have communicated
the Google-Summer-of-Code (GSoC) process poorly, sorry!.

To clarify, this is how it works:

   - OSM has now been accepted as a mentoring organisation for GSoC - Ian
   Dees and I are acting as administrators for OSM.
   - Potential students review our project ideas
pagehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2012and
ask questions on the mailing lists for guidance etc.   It is really
   good if the person who proposed the project replies, but Ian or I step in
   if a quick reply is not forthcoming.I like to see the discussion of
   potential projects being open to the community in general to give others
   the chance to express opinions on the value of the proposal, potential
   pitfalls etc.
   - Students apply via the Google GSoC site (http://code.google.com/soc/),
   not to OSM or to a potential mentor.
   - In parallel with student applications OSM community members volunteer
   to act as mentors, and apply via the Google GSoC site (
   http://code.google.com/soc/).  Please drop myself and Ian an email too,
   in case we do not recognise you.
   - The people who have volunteered to act as OSM mentors identify which
   projects they would be willing to mentor.
   - The OSM mentors review and rank all of the proposals and decide which
   ones to accept, given the available mentors, the number of student places
   allocated to us by Google, and the quality of applications.   We enter the
   ranking into the GSoC web site so Google can see it.  [Note that we will
   discuss the applications off-list, because to me it is a bit like reviewing
   job applications - not the sort of thing you shout across the office].
   - The administrators (Ian and I) match the students to the mentors.
   - Google announces the successful applicants based on the ranking we
   have entered.
   - I will provide feedback to unsuccessful applicants on why their
   proposals were not accepted.
   - Then the real work begins!

I hope that helps.

The student application period starts in a few days, so it would be really
good if we could sign up potential mentors as soon as possible so that we
can start to review the applications as they arrive, so if you are
interested in acting as a mentor and would like any more information,
please contact Ian and I.


Regards


Graham

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Re: [OSM-talk] GSOC2012 Video Based Speed Limit Detector

[Graham Jones]

Hi Emanuela,
Thank you for your interest in applying for GSoC with Openstreetmap.   This
list will be fine to ask questions - the person who proposed the project
idea should reply here.

Here are a few suggestions to get you started:

- It is important to understand the fundamentals of what OSM is, so if you
have not done so before, please start by creating an account and making
some improvements to the map in your local area.

- It would also be good to look at the OSM data structure.  Details of the
xml file format can be found on our wiki.  Not directly relevant to the
particular project idea that you are thinking of, but we are asking all
applicants to show an understanding of the basics of how OSM works this
year, irrespective of their particular project proposal, as you will see on
our application template.

- I think the project idea is about developing a plugin for the JOSM
editor?  If so it would be good to have a look at that and learn to use it,
then have a look at the code and some example plugins to see how they work
- you should find lots of information on the OSM wiki.

Hope that helps.   Please feel free to ask more questions as you develop
your proposal.

I would ask the person who proposed the idea to reply here with a bit more
information please, as this is not something I know anything about!

Regards


Graham




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Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC 2012 - Application

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
Thank you for your interest in applying for GSoC with Openstreetmap.
I am sure the person that raised that project idea will reply with some
more information, but here are a few thougts from me.
- It is important to understand the fundamentals of what OSM is, so please
start by creating an account and making some improvements to the map in
your local area.
- It would also be good to look at the data structure so that you
appreciate that OSM is really a database of geographic information which
can be turned into map images.  Details of the xml file format can be found
on our wiki - Provision of map tile images is a secondary service, and a
number of companies provide map tiles based on OSM data.
- I would be very keen on any 'end user' applications like this one having
clear links to a 'how to improve this map' page to help encourage
contributions, not just use the data.
- In terms of your specific questions on the project idea, the idea listed
quite a few features that could be made available - I would search for
these things on the osm wiki to see what is available at the moment, which
you could integrate into widgets.
- I am not familiar with widgets for blogs etc, but as you say, I think
they are javascript programmes which interact with both the host
environment (wiki, blog etc) and the osm based service.   I think it should
be possible to make it a stand alone system where you can say 'copy this
code into your website'?  From your mail I think you know more than me
about this bit though!

Hope that helps.   Please feel free to ask more questions as you develop
your proposal.

Regards

Graham

from my phone

On 19 Mar 2012 03:18, Shivansh Srivastava shivansh.b...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

I am Shivansh, pursuing Engineering at BITS Pilani, currently in my 3rd
year.

I am well versed in Web Technologies, that include HTML5, JavaScripts
(jQuery),
CSS; with PHP  MySQL and App Development for Windows Phone 7.

I have worked in my college on several websites with the same knowledge. I
had
also given a talk at the 3rd WikiConference held at Mumbai on Improving
Wiki UI
using AJAX  jQuery  presented 4 ideas/projects with the Wiki community.

I am interested in pursuing the *OSM Widget Creator* listed on the Ideas
page.

I have a few queries regarding the same-

1. Most of it can be done through javascript (more effectively through
jQuery).
But since I am new to OSM, I want to know how would I work on it? Would it
be in
a similar way as MediaWiki, by downloading the software  developing, or
working on
my user common.js?

2. Could I also be enlightened on the kinds of widget expected to be
developed?

I would like to take the opportunity to learn as much as I can working on
the ideas 
contribute during the summer.

With Regards,

-- 
Shivansh Srivastava | +91-955-243-5407 |
http://in.linkedin.com/pub/shivansh-srivastava/17/a50/b18mr.shivansh.srivast...@gmail.com
mr.shivansh.srivast...@gmail.comSecretary, BITS Alumni Affairs Division |
Web Expert, Newsletter, BITSAA International
3rd Year Undergraduate | B.E. (Hons.) - Electronics  Instrumentation
BITS-Pilani.


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[OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
I am pleased to announce that OSM has been accepted to participate in this
year's Google Summer of Code programme (
http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2012/osm).

Thanks to all of you who have contributed to our ideas page (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2012), which
supported the application.

Over the next few weeks we can expect potential students to review the
ideas page and contact us to seek clarification on ideas or guidance on how
to develop them.
Ian Dees has set a good example in responding to such requests positively,
and with a steer that a good start is to learn a bit about mapping.

I would be grateful if you would again review the ideas list and provide
any clarifications that may help students in producing a project proposal
from them.
I would also like to hear from anyone that would be prepared to act as a
mentor on this year's programme.

I will do a bit more work on a wiki page that I have started on the process
I propose to follow for this year's GSoC (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Processes), and
send another update email so you know what we will be doing.

Thanks again for your support.

Regards


Graham.

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Re: [Talk-GB] New VectorMapDistrict comparison maps on ITO Map

[Graham Jones]

Peter,
This is very good, thank you - It is a nice easy check to see whether there
are areas that need more attention.
One thing that I would find useful would be an 'Edit' button that would
open the same view in Potlatch2 to help correct little issues easily (like
some of those roads with odd kinks in because I had moved a node
accidentally etc.).

Graham.

On 13 March 2012 20:21, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:

 I am pleased to be able announce that ITO Map now has a bunch of new map
 views comparing data in OSM with VectorMapDistrict. There are 7 new maps:
 two comparing roads in OSM with those in VMD (one highlighting omissions in
 VMD and the other from OSM), and also maps comparing railways, electricity,
 water, woodland and building data in the two map bases.

 The version of VMD we are using is probably not the most recent and we are
 also aware of some odd times on zoom 8. We will ensure that we using the
 latest VMD within the next few days and will be taking a look at the
 problems with zoom 8.

 In the mean time I hope it is useful.
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/group/21

 These maps use our new ITO Map interface with a place search and sharing
 options which we rolled out last week.


 Regards,


 Peter Miller
 ITO World Ltd




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Re: [OSM-talk] mapbook v0.02

[Graham Jones]

Excellent - thanks Paul.
I have nearly finished a web service that will allow users to select an
area and generate a book using your programWill be a week or two before
it is ready though

Graham.

On 10 March 2012 05:03, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 I have completed an overhaul to my mapbook program, making it easier to
 extend and adding new features.

 This program, available at https://github.com/pnorman/mapbook, will
 create a
 PDF with a title page, an index map showing the coverage of the book and
 what page covers what area, then individual map pages, each page having
 arrows indicating which page is in which direction. It also includes an
 attribution page. An example for Vancouver, BC is available at
 http://pnorman.dev.openstreetmap.org/mapbook/vancouver.pdf

 Mapbook will work with any mapnik .xml style and can generate
 high-resolution maps that print well

 Requirements:

 Python 2.7
 Mapnik2
 Cairo

 Most osm mapnik styles will also require a postgis database created with
 osm2pgsql




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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
Thank you to those who have suggested ideas for GSoC projects on the ideas
wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2012.

I would encourage everyone to have a look at the ideas and comment on them
so that we can develop them to make it easier for potential students to
understand what is involved, and add any other suggestions too - maybe use
the discussion wiki page if the comment is more than a simple one line one,
or discuss it on this, or the dev mailing list if more significant?

There are a couple that are to do with HTML renderers.   We actually had a
previous GSoC project that made a lot of good progress on this a couple of
years ago (https://github.com/mdaines/simple-map-editor).   This is one
that I feel bad about because I have not taken it on after GSoC (I always
intended to incorporate it into one of my 'speciality' maps of historic
features etc...), but I think it has all of the basics of a simple editor
there (including Oauth authentication), so there is scope to have a nice
project to develop the user interface to turn it into a finished product.
It would be good to expand on the proposals there to clarify that this is
to build on an existing project, not start from scratch, and to help
identify the scope of the project (ie is it going to allow editing of
geometry or just adding nodes and editing tags on other features?).

The ideas list is taking shape nicely, so I have submitted a draft
application on behalf of OSM, which points to the ideas page, but there is
still time to work on the ideas before the Google (and if we
are successful, potential students) start to look at it.

Please let me know if you are interested in acting as a mentor, and in
helping to choose which student applications are successful if OSM is
selected to participate this year - I can provide more details of what is
involved.

Regards


Graham.
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[OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
OSM has taken part in the Google Summer of
Codehttp://code.google.com/soc/programme for the last few years, and
we are thinking of applying to take
part again this year.
The programme is to encourage university students to participate in open
source projects.   They receive a payment from Google to allow them to work
on computer coding projects over the summer break rather than taking other
work.  OSM receives a small contribution for its participation too.

To take part OSM has to provide a list of 'project ideas' for challenging,
but achievable projects, then offer a mentor to help the successful
students achieve their project goals.

We have started an ideas page at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2012.   Please will
you have a look, and add any project ideas you can come up with to the list?
Also, if you would be willing to act as a mentor, please make a note on
that page too.

We need to complete the project ideas list this week, so please put down
anything you can think of eary.

If you would like any more information, please let me know.

Thanks


Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code

[Graham Jones]

 In my opinion, it would be very much desirable to actually have individual
 students who *are* *already* *active* in OSM suggest a project that they
 would like - and feel capable - to do, and then use these ideas in our
 application.

 Or, if that is not possible, at the very least have someone who has a very
 concrete idea of what needs doing and who says this is what needs doing,
 and I am willing to mentor it.

 GSoC is not a wishing well. If people are dropping their someone should
 really do X ideas on the wiki page and not even willing or able to mentor
 it then that is, in my eyes, asking for trouble...

 Thanks Frederik - very good points.  It would be really good for students
that are involved with OSM to propose projects.

Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Printed map books

[Graham Jones]

Hi Paul,
This is very good.   I had to convert the print 'x'.format() statements
into the ' %d ' % (xxx) format to get it to run on my computer (not sure if
that is a python version issue), but it is producing nice clear paginated
output.

Thanks

Graham.

On 22 February 2012 03:38, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 I’ve thrown something together in python. It uses mapnik for rendering the
 maps and cairo for page layout. It’s on github at
 https://github.com/pnorman/mapbook but it’s very much in a development
 stage. 

 I intend to add 

 **-  **Arrows at the edges, indicating what page to go if you
 want to look in that direction

 **-  **An index page at the front

 **-  **The ability to skip maps

 ** **

 *From:* Graham Jones [mailto:grahamjones...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:50 AM
 *To:* Paul Norman
 *Cc:* Steve Bennett; talk@openstreetmap.org
 *Subject:* Re: RE: [OSM-talk] Printed map books

 ** **

 My townguide python script does that - it uses a library to put the mapnik
 generated images onto pdf pages along with other text.

 from my phone

 On 19 Feb 2012 09:37, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 Pdfatlas appears to use a custom rendering language, and I’d rather avoid
 that. It also hasn’t been updated in 5 years.

  

 What I’m considering writing is a set of python scripts that build the map
 with mapnik and then piece the pages together. Do you think inkscape is the
 easiest way to build the PDFs from the command line?

  

  

 *From:* Graham Jones [mailto:grahamjones...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:08 AM
 *To:* Steve Bennett
 *Cc:* Paul Norman; talk@openstreetmap.org
 *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Printed map books





 Hi,

 The two 'townguide' ones are mine, but the demonstration web service at
 townguide.webhop.n...




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Re: [OSM-talk] Printed map books

[Graham Jones]

Great!  I will have a go with it when I get back home.

Graham

from my phone

On 22 Feb 2012 03:38, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

I’ve thrown something together in python. It uses mapnik for rendering the
maps and cairo for page layout. It’s on github at
https://github.com/pnorman/mapbook but it’s very much in a development
stage. 

I intend to add 

**-  **Arrows at the edges, indicating what page to go if you want
to look in that direction

**-  **An index page at the front

**-  **The ability to skip maps

** **

*From:* Graham Jones [mailto:grahamjones...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:50 AM
*To:* Paul Norman
*Cc:* Steve Bennett; talk@openstreetmap.org
*Subject:* Re: RE: [OSM-talk] Printed map books





My townguide python script does that - it uses a library to put the mapnik
generated images ont...
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Re: [OSM-talk] Printed map books

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
The two 'townguide' ones are mine, but the demonstration web service at
townguide.webhop.net is not working, sorry (had a little disk crash a year
ago, and never quite got around to putting it back together...)

Getting a nice printable booklet working has been on my todo list for ages
- there is a rough implementation of it in the townguide code, but that is
really a proof of concept rather than a finished work.I must admit to
not developing townguide recently, but if there is demand for this, I will
have a go at getting a booklet implementation workingyou will have to
give me a few weeks though, but the code is all open source, so if you
would like to work on it, I can explain how it works.

I think there is another option called pdfatlas - This is aiming to do
something similar, but I failed to get it working when I tried - can't
remember why though - worth searching on the OSM wiki for it.

Regards

Graham.

On 19 February 2012 08:55, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Paul,
  I asked about this a while ago on the thread Generating a street
 directory from OSM? and got some good answers.  Some relevant links
 that came up:

 http://code.google.com/p/townguide
 http://www.townguide.webhop.net/
 http://www.maposmatic.org

 Steve

 On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:
  In my car I still use a printed map book, which I'd like to replace with
 one
  using OSM data and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.
 
  The features I consider requirements are
 
  - Tiled pages with an index map at the front of the book
  - Arrows on each page indicating the number of the adjacent pages
 
  I'd also like
 
  - A street index at the back, indicating the street, city, map page and
 map
  grid
 
  I've looked at the wiki, but all of the programs I saw used osmarender
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Printed map books

[Graham Jones]

My townguide python script does that - it uses a library to put the mapnik
generated images onto pdf pages along with other text.

from my phone

On 19 Feb 2012 09:37, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

Pdfatlas appears to use a custom rendering language, and I’d rather avoid
that. It also hasn’t been updated in 5 years.

** **

What I’m considering writing is a set of python scripts that build the map
with mapnik and then piece the pages together. Do you think inkscape is the
easiest way to build the PDFs from the command line?

** **

** **

*From:* Graham Jones [mailto:grahamjones...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:08 AM
*To:* Steve Bennett
*Cc:* Paul Norman; talk@openstreetmap.org
*Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Printed map books





Hi,

The two 'townguide' ones are mine, but the demonstration web service at
townguide.webhop.n...
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Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

If we treat path and footway as synonims, that would be ok.   The only
thing is that I (maybe incorrectly) treat footway as having an implied
access permission (things like little paved walkways in towns) - a bit like
highway=unclassified.

On the other hand I treat highway=path as just being a statement of fact -
'there is a path here', so it needs some access tags adding to it.   In my
mind highway = footway is about the same as highway=path; foot=yes (or
maybe designation=public_footpath, but that is more specific).

We should clarify this if we are going to treat them the same or adopt one
over the other.

Graham.

from my phone

On 18 Feb 2012 08:28, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:


Possibly relevant here: Freemap's database has a rural bias, as it covers
only certain counties: specifically W Sussex, Surrey, Hampshire, Wiltshire
and Somerset in the south;
Cheshire, Derbyshire, Lancashire and Cumbria in the north; and all of
Wales. The dominance of footway still holds:

footway (all) 81766
path (all) 14904
footway + designation 11711
path + designation 2042
footway + foot=permissive 3699
path + foot=permissive 1619

However I'd agree that what would really be interesting is the trend.

The main thing that comes out of this data is how many footways OR paths
lack either a designation tag or a foot=permissive.
I suspect that many of these are rights of way or permissive paths. Since
we really want to let people know where they can
definitely walk, I think this is a more important issue to fix than footway
vs path!

Nick

-Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
grahamjones...@gmail.comwrote: -

To: Andrew Chadwick a.t.chadw...@gmail.com a.t.chadw...@gmail.com
From: Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com grahamjones...@gmail.com
Date: 17/02/2012 07:43PM
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki:
due for an update?





 On 17 February 2012 17:35, Andrew Chadwick a.t.chadw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd still ...

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Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

Hi
You are dead right - I was talking about paths as in narrow strips of
ground for walking on.

I would tag a public footpath as highway=whatever is appropriate:
unclassified|residential|service|track|path, designation=public_footpath.

Graham.

On 18 February 2012 10:48, Derick Rethans o...@derickrethans.nl wrote:

 Hi,

 On Sat, 18 Feb 2012, Graham Jones wrote:

  On the other hand I treat highway=path as just being a statement of fact
 -
  'there is a path here', so it needs some access tags adding to it.   In
 my
  mind highway = footway is about the same as highway=path; foot=yes (or
  maybe designation=public_footpath, but that is more specific).

 During the Weybridge mapping party, I'd encountered some residential
 roads (highway=residential) or service roads (highway=service) that were
 also public footpaths, so I've mapped those as:

 highway=residential
 designation=public_footpath

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/150222454

 Marking those roads as highway=footway or highway=path makes no sense
 (to me).

 cheers,
 Derick

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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql hstore (was: Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer)

[Graham Jones]

Thanks - I will give it another try - I have got a computer running Ubuntu
11.10, which has Postgres 9.1.2.   I will create a second database with an
hstore and see how it compares.

Graham.

On 17 February 2012 11:36, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote:

 Komяpa writes:

 - is a database generated by osm2pgsql with an hstore expected to perform
 similarly to one without?


 It performs at the same speed for me.
 Of course you're not supposed to use hstore for every tag, but just
 for those on highest zoom levels, where spatial indexes are used
 mostly, not indexes for other columns.


 if you are using Postgres 9.1 you are advised to update to 9.1.2. There
 was a bug introduced that prevented index usage. For example testing for a
 tag like
 SELECT * from table WHERE hstore ? tag
 did not use an index and could make a query horribly slow. We experienced
 this on Toolserver.

 Stephan




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Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

On 17 February 2012 15:43, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.ukwrote:


 From my understanding, a minimum of ONE to TWO tags are needed:

 a) a highway tag. This represents the physical properties of the way, e.g.
 service, track, path (or footway - see below)
 b) if applicable, a designation tag. This represents the RoW status.

 I agree - I will normally tag a public footpath as highway = path | track,
designation = public_footpath.  I may include a surface=gravel | paved if
it is not a mud path.
I too only use highway=footway for urban footpaths, but you see plenty of
them in the country and I don't usually bother changing them.
I think there is an issue of rendering on the main mapnik stylesheet - If I
remember correctly highway=path renders differently to highway=footway.   I
was going to look for a nice example of a mixture in the North Yorkshire
Moors or Weardale, but it looks like someone has changed them to
highway=path, so can't find any just now!

Graham.
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Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

On 17 February 2012 17:35, Andrew Chadwick a.t.chadw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd still love to see some areas with big outbreaks of
 highway=path+designation-only, or highway=path+access-tags-only as
 representations of public paths. Must throw down some overpass-api
 quadrats around the country to see what people are doing in various
 areas, before we completely throw highway=path to the Germans.
 Statistically, would highway=path + designation=public_footpath vs.
 highway=footway + designation=public_footpath be a worthwhile
 comparison? Should get around the legacy issue with h=footway.

 I have just had a play with my shiny new British Isles database import
with a hstore, so that I can get to the 'designation' tag.   The following
queries are looking at highway = footway v's highway=path, with or without
some sort of designation (ie designation or foot not null).

osm_gb_hs=# --total with a designation
osm_gb_hs=# select highway, count(way) as
count,cast(sum(st_length2d(way)/1000.) as int) as totLen from
planet_osm_line where (highway='footway' or highway='path') and
(((tags-'designation') is not null) or (foot is not null)) group by
highway order by highway, totLen desc;
 highway | count  | totlen
-++
 footway | 124970 |  66566
 path|  27154 |  17313
(2 rows)

osm_gb_hs=#
osm_gb_hs=# --total without a designation
osm_gb_hs=# select highway, count(way) as
count,cast(sum(st_length2d(way)/1000.) as int) as totLen from
planet_osm_line where (highway='footway' or highway='path') and
(((tags-'designation') is  null) and (foot is null)) group by highway
order by highway, totLen desc;
 highway | count  | totlen
-++
 footway | 224678 |  59942
 path|  28628 |  14235
(2 rows)

You can see that there are many more highway=footway rather than
highway=path in the british isles.   I think the totlen column is the total
length in km, but my postgis is not very good so this could be wrong.

Basically this says that there are 224k footways without a designation of
some sort, and 125k with a designation.
Similarly, there are 28k paths without a designation and 27k with a
designation.  [there are also over 20k highway=bridleway, which is an odd
one].

Is this the sort of query you were thinking of?   Of course I can produce
huge lists of all the combinations of designations and foot values, but not
that sure how useful that is, or how to present it.   This is for the whole
uk, so includes urban areas, which could account for the very large
proportion of footways over paths.  I wonder if there are relations for the
national parks so I could run a few queries for those areas?

Graham.


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Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

I think I have worked out how to do the query using national park
relations, and get the following results for a small sample:

National Park | Footway (no des) | Footway (des) | path (no
des) | path (des) |
New Forest (way ID 129493402) |   153|   213 |98
  |  493   |
North York Moors (rel 409150) |   294|   440 |   100
  |  103   |
Lake District (rel 287917)|   952|  1572 |   245
  |  187   |

So, I think you are right that highway=footway is more used, even in rural
areas (except for the New Forest in the sample above).
A more interesting comparison may be which are being created though,
because highway=footway may be legacy stuff - I certainly used to use it,
but stopped after a while and switched to highway=path.

Hope that helps.

Graham.


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[OSM-talk] osm2pgsql hstore (was: Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer)

[Graham Jones]

On 16 February 2012 16:25, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Hi,


 On 02/16/2012 03:05 PM, Kay Drangmeister wrote:

 Isn't there a hstore in the rendering-db?


 No.

 This reminded me of a question I have been meaning to ask for quite a
while - is a database generated by osm2pgsql with an hstore expected to
perform similarly to one without?

The only time I tried to use hstore, the performance of the whole database
was dreadful (at least a factor of 5 slower, but I didn't do any proper
benchmarking - I just gave up and re-created it without hstore and the
problem went away).It may have been that something went wrong with the
import that I did not notice, and it was not an hstore issue.

Using hstore would be really good given the fashion for generating new keys
with colons in them, but not with that reduction in performance, so I keep
having to re-import my database to add new keys.

grumble Why create a key generator:power_source rather than just use
power_source.  power_source is much more generic so you could re-cycle it
for things like district heating, but generator:power_source is only ever
going to be used for generating stations, and needs a new column in the
database. /grumble.   I think I just prefer more generic, re-usable keys
rather than trying to invent a new one for each situation

Regards


Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql hstore (was: Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer)

[Graham Jones]

On 16 February 2012 18:51, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 On 02/16/2012 07:25 PM, Graham Jones wrote:

 This reminded me of a question I have been meaning to ask for quite a
 while - is a database generated by osm2pgsql with an hstore expected to
 perform similarly to one without?


 I never ran one with hstore when I think of what this must mean for the
 database engine, and storage space, then I shudder and would not be
 surprised by the factor 5 you mentioned.


Thanks - I don't feel so bad about giving up so easily now!

If you want to add a new key but avoid re-importing the full database, you
 can add the key to osm2pgsql's style file, somehow generate an .osm file
 that contains only the objects that have this tag, wrap this .osm file into
 a osmChangemodify.../**modify/osmChange instead of
 osm.../osm and throw it at osm2pgsql in append mode.


That's a neat idea - will try that next time, thanks.


 People like keys that are understandable without context. Contrast this
 with a tag width=2 - where you have no chance in knowing what it means
 without looking at the whole thing.


Yes - I think it is just a style difference - I am quite happy to interpret
it from context for the sake of having a smaller number of unique keys to
think about.

Cheers

Graham

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Re: [Talk-GB] Backwards Areas

[Graham Jones]

Ah. That would account for why I can not explain the effect from my edits -
thanks!
I just assumed it was my fault because of the timing, and at high zoom the
first unaffected tile was next to the area I edited.

Cheers

Graham

from my phone

On 15 Feb 2012 09:03, Peter Reed peter.r...@aligre.co.uk wrote:

Graham,

** **

I don’t think this is anything to do with your edit. 

** **

About the same time as you edited Finchale, somebody accidentally
added “building=yes” to the admin-area relation for North-East
England, so the whole region turned into a building.

** **

It was fixed fairly quickly, and I think it has all been re-rendered
on mapnik now.

** **

Pete









 Hi All,



 I had a mishap today when I added a closed area way around the Finchale
...

* http://maps3.org.uk/images/OSM_colour_fill.png showing one of the*



 affected tiles that was left in my browser cache after I corrected it.



 The reason I am su...

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Re: [Talk-GB] Backwards Areas

[Graham Jones]

Thanks - I thought there was some sort of anticlockwise rule, but I had
never noticed it make any difference.

GJ

from my phone

On 15 Feb 2012 10:38, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

On 14 February 2012 19:34, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
  but I made the way run...
Just for clarity, there's no difference between clockwise and
anticlockwise polygons in OSM. Either direction works fine.

There are, of course, one or two exceptions, the principle one being
coastlines where you might be able to describe a whole island with
just one way. But for buildings, gardens, ruins etc, there's no
difference.

Cheers,
Andy
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Re: [Talk-GB] Backwards Areas

[Graham Jones]

Try again without the image attached...

On 14 February 2012 19:28, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi All,

 I had a mishap today when I added a closed area way around the Finchale
 Priory ruins in County Durham (
 http://maps3.org.uk/EH_NTMap/client/brewmap.html?lon=-1.5409719944000244lat=54.81767586923475z=16).


 I tagged the closed way with historic=abbey, ruins=yes, barrier=fence
 (because there is a fence around the outside), but I made the way run
 clockwise rather than anticlockwise.
 This seemed to start flooding County Durham with a funny grey-purple
 colour (I am colour blind, sorry!) - image here
 http://maps3.org.uk/images/OSM_colour_fill.png showing one of the
 affected tiles that was left in my browser cache after I corrected it.

 The reason I am surprised at this effect is that now that I have reversed
 the way, things have returned to normal, but the inside of the way is not
 shaded (certainly not with the dark colour on the attached image).

 I am quite surprised by this - does anyone know what happened?

 Cheers


 Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Contact And Remap Campaign

[Graham Jones]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for the considered reply.  Yes, it looks like 'orphan works' was
the term I was thinking of.  Thanks you for the links.

I think the reason that I do not agree that re-mapping is the better
option, is that I have no real interest in preserving my personal copyright
or changing the licence - when I started contributing to this project I did
not read the legal stuff enough to realise that I retained personal
copyright of the data I contributed and thought that I was contributing to
some sort of collective ownership project.   I remember thinking that the
attribution part of the licence was a nice idea because it is polite to say
where you got the data from, nothing more than that.  For this reason,
putting effort into addressing the consequences of a licence change will
never feel worthwhile to me, because I see no benefit in it.  I understand
that many people do think it is a good idea though, and respect that view.

If I sounded disrespectful of people's copyright, then I apologise - I do
not think that what I suggested is disrespectful, just a pragmatic
interpretation that is unlikely to offend many, and for which there is a
straightforward response to anyone that does not like what has been done to
their data.

Anyway for fear of this getting into the usual bad tempered 'debate' about
licence issues, this is my last word on the subject!

Cheers


Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Contact And Remap Campaign

[Graham Jones]

On 7 February 2012 05:34, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com wrote:


 Our default action should be: if somebody doesn't answer, then
 relicence

 I completely agree - we should assume that no response is equivalent to
consent - if they complain about this action we can delete their data when
they show enough interest to actually decline the licence/terms.  Qui tacet
consentire.


Graham.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Example of OSM National Turst property map?

[Graham Jones]

 Looks useful - could you add Cadw and Historic Scotland to the
 highlighted operators? (EG
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/117407496 )


Done!   http://maps3.org.uk/EH_NTMap

Now does CADW, Historic Scotland and Scottish Heritage.  I ran out of
coloured dots though, so will need some non-copyright infringing icons to
use

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Re: [Talk-GB] Example of OSM National Turst property map?

[Graham Jones]

Not quite what you asked for, but your question persuaded me to do
something that I have intended to do for ages, which is to map where the
National Trust / English Heritage properties are on the map, so you can
have a look at how they have been mapped

You can see a very quick go at it here:  http://maps3.org.uk/EH_NTMap.
(if you click on one of the coloured markers, there is a link to the OSM
object in the popup).

I know it is not National Trust, but I am quite pleased with Dover Castle (
http://maps3.org.uk/EH_NTMap/client/brewmap.html?lon=1.322876214981079lat=51.12747179411275z=16),
even if I forgot to add the 'operator' tag to make it appear on my new
map...

I think there is a lot of scope for micro-mapping these sort of places, but
we could do with a specific rendering - castles especially need rendering
for embankments and ditches to give an impression of the topography,
country houses need flower beds etc.   I did start a style to render Dover
Castle like that...will see if I can find an example for you, but I think
it is a long way off being something you would use to show off!.

Regards

Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Critical Mass for license change-over

[Graham Jones]

Mike,
Thank you for the detailed report and request for comments.   This is my
view on where we are.

I think clarity on what will be deleted is very important, because without
that it is hard to make a judgement on the cost-benefit of going ahead with
the licence change.   I will probably need a reminder about the positive
side of the balance, because as I see it at the moment, it is mostly
negative.

We should not assume that contributors' acceptance of the new licence means
that they are particularly in favour of it - they may have just accepted
because it was easier than getting involved in the argument, and did not
see it as doing any harm.  From a personal point of view I fall into that
category - I have no interest in changing the licence, but am not against
it per-se, so accepted.  Because I see negligible benefit in changing the
licence, I find it very hard to justify data loss by progressing with it.
Some of the numbers in the links you provided look very low to me, but I
may have been interpreting them wrong.

I also think it is a huge distraction of effort and resources - people have
written tools (like those you refer to) to look at the possible effect of
the change, and lots of people are putting effort into 're-mapping' areas.
  I feel there would be more constructive things to do.  Given these
issues, I wish I had thought about the consequences a lot more before I
voted in favour of starting the process!

But if we assume that there will not be a huge cry to abandon the change,
as there seem to be a lot of people who are genuinely in favour of it, then
I would like to see clarity on what will be deleted.

My main issue with it is the assumption that is currently being made that
people who do not respond to requests to accept or decline the new licence
are treated as decliners.   I have tried to contact some people in my are
who made a few edits and disappeared, but they have not responded.   I
think it is overly pessimistic to treat these as decliners - we should
assume they accept unless they complain and make a definitive statement
that they decline.This is especially important for people who may have
deceased - I would not like to think that if my near miss cycling accident
had turned out worse, that my contributions would be deleted - that does
not seem right to me.

Without clarity on what the criteria for deleting information will be, I do
not think I can make a judgement on whether we have reached a
'critical-mass'.

Sorry for the rambling reply.  To summarise my views:

   - We should not assume that everyone that has accepted the licence is
   particularly in favour of it - they may be pretty much neutral on it.
   - We should not treat non-responders as decliners, as this is overly
   pessimistic, and in my judgement is unlikely to be what the non-responders
   would want.
   - I will make a judgement on whether we have reached the 'critical mass'
   once we have clarity on what

Thank you again for asking for feedback, and sorry I did not give you a
straight answer.

Regards


Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] How I got here - was Geocaching.com moved to OSM (partly)

[Graham Jones]

Hi Rob,

On 21 January 2012 14:30, Rob Warren war...@muninn-project.org wrote:


 I've been working on an ontology for graves and cemetery for use with
 linked open data [1]. Would there be any interest in setting up an LOD
 gateway for grave data on the OSM?

 best,
 rhw
 [1]  
 http://rdf.muninn-project.org/**ontologies/graves.htmlhttp://rdf.muninn-project.org/ontologies/graves.html

 As no-one else has responded, I will have to show my ignorance and admit
that I do not know what you mean.

There are often responses on these lists that 'we' do not want data type
'X' in the main OSM database - it should be in a separate one.

So, if you are proposing to set up a separate database and show how it
could be lined to OSM, that would be really good.

I am afraid I could not work out what the ontology meant - is it a database
schema, or a template for how to describe graves in XML?

There has been quite a bit of discussion about mapping historical things
here recently and I wonder if this could be incorporated into some sort of
general 'historicOSM' database?

Sorry for being dense!


Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] geojson

[Graham Jones]

On 21 January 2012 08:47, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 can i h ave the code of the free-map.org.uk?

 so i can learn how it work

 still seeking a way to make POI using GeoJSON

 Frans,
I think Nick's Fremap Code is here:
http://www.free-map.org.uk/svn/freemap/fmap2012/ws/ (linked from his blog
entry http://www.free-map.org.uk/wordpress/?p=221).
This would be well worth looking at, because it is a better solution than
the one I used for BrewMap, which has all of the data in a single file, so
would not work well if there is a lot of data.

I have started on a geoJSON version of the brewmap server code in the
TiledData branch of brewmap https://github.com/jones139/BrewMap.  It does
not work properly yet, but you can see the postgresql queries that return
geoJSON.   I intend to have a look at Nick's code and use a similar model
for brewmap.

Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] geojson

[Graham Jones]

Hi Frans,
The BrewMap code is fine for small amounts of data - but it will not scale
to large datasets, so it is worth keeping that in mind when you think of
other projects to base on it - I think the approach Nick has taken will
scale better, so it is still worth looking at.

Regards

Graham.

On 21 January 2012 09:26, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 GRaham, your BrewMap run well :0

 now student working on it ;)

 brewmap.osmosa.net run here, we try to move the datasource from
 openstreetmap.org to osmosa.net

 and you will see the apps based on Brwemap shortly,, thx for sharing it




 On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On 21 January 2012 08:47, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 
  can i h ave the code of the free-map.org.uk?
 
  so i can learn how it work
 
  still seeking a way to make POI using GeoJSON
 
  Frans,
  I think Nick's Fremap Code is
  here: http://www.free-map.org.uk/svn/freemap/fmap2012/ws/ (linked from
 his
  blog entry).
  This would be well worth looking at, because it is a better solution than
  the one I used for BrewMap, which has all of the data in a single file,
 so
  would not work well if there is a lot of data.
 
  I have started on a geoJSON version of the brewmap server code in the
  TiledData branch of brewmap.  It does not work properly yet, but you can
 see
  the postgresql queries that return geoJSON.   I intend to have a look at
  Nick's code and use a similar model for brewmap.
 
  Graham.
 
  --
 
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  Hartlepool, UK.
 




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Re: [OSM-talk] geojson

[Graham Jones]

Hi Frans,
I haven't checked Nick's code, but I think that it works by the client
requesting data for the specific area that is being displayed on the map.
The BrewMap code just uses a single data file to cover the entire area (in
this case the uk), so even if you zoom in very close, it still uses data
for the whole uk.   This is fine if you only have a few hundred data
points, but will become very slow if you have tens of thousands.

Now for low zoom levels (large displayed areas) this amounts to the same
thing, so there would be no benefit, unless you do some filtering on the
server side to simplify the data (eg group POIs if they are going to be
plotted on top of each other).   I have not done this yet, but Nick, and
the folks working on KothicJS are likely to have thought about it and may
have solutions, which is why I think it is worth investigating how they do
it.

Whether it is worth putting effort into simplifying the data on the server
depends on how much data you are dealing with.

Regards

Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] confuse with OSM API

[Graham Jones]

Hi Frans,
I have drawn a simplified version of the Components of OSM picture (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Develop) - you can see it here:
http://maps3.org.uk/doc/OSM_Data_Flows.pdf http://maps3.org.uk/doc.

What I am trying to show is that the editors talk to the main OSM API
database.
The planet file you used to populate your own database to make your
tileserver is essentially a copy of the data in the API database.

The editors can also display tiles, but they do that just like any other
web browser would - they are just using them as background images.

Therefore unless you want to have your own private data, that is not in
OSM, you should just edit normally and use osmosis and osm2pgsql to keep
your local database up to date with any edits, then use your local database
to generate tiles.

Hope that helps a bit.


Graham.

On 21 January 2012 09:20, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 hi all

 i am in discussion with OSMAnd, related to implement OSMAnd in non
 OSM.org domain, like our domain osmosa.net

 and it need Tile, so OSMAnd communicate with Tile.

 and we know there is OSM API, which used by JOSM.

 and we know JOSM also talking with tile, we can see the tile in JOSM

 so...

 i am confuse, how many API inside OSM, that we can use.

 i tought only from OSM API.. but it isnt

 F

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

[Graham Jones]

Mick,

On 15 January 2012 00:54, mick bare...@tpg.com.au wrote:


 One example of my long-term goals (I'll leave them to my Grandchildren ;)
 ) is to be able to take say an layer containing prehistoric monumental and
 settlement features and look at the extent to which the Romans developments
 respected these.

 In the fullness of time and with plenty of support, I'd like to see layers
 to cover all periods of history covered.

Me too, but I would not expect the main OSM page to do this - we will have
to have a separate 'OSM-history' map I think.


 This requires a renderer / display set up that allows the use to select
 what features you want and filter out those you don't.

 What I can see of OSM the editing tools are quite good, though they
 could/should be enhanced if my goals reach 'critical mass'. The rendrering
 engine will require significant enhancement to support selectable layers
 unless I have missed something.

I will make a mock up rendering tonight to see if it is the sort of thing
you are thinking of - I was just thinking of adding a layer switcher to my
existing history map (http://maps3.org.uk/tiles/historic.html) to allow you
to select prehistoric/roman/modern features etc.
Nag me if I don't get back to you 'cos it will mean I got distracted by
something else!

Cheers

Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

[Graham Jones]

 This requires a renderer / display set up that allows the use to select
 what features you want and filter out those you don't.

  The rendrering engine will require significant enhancement to support
 selectable layers unless I have missed something.



Hi Mick,

Is this the sort of thing you had in mind (
http://maps3.org.uk/tiles/historic_layers.html)?

It has a VERY crude filtering of prehistoric / Roman / medieval and
'modern' historic features, and an even rougher rendering of those
features.   (to do it properly we will need either civlization/period tags,
or start/end dates, and spend a lot more time on the presentation than I
have!).

But, there is a layer switcher on the right hand side of the map where you
can select a base map (I used the standard OSM rendering and cycle map,
because I thought that if we do it for real, we would want a topographic
base layer more than a motorway network?)
Each layer is rendered a bit differently so you can see them change when
you switch them on and off.

Note that I have not rendered much of the map - it will get very slow as
you zoom in, because it will start to render the map on demand, and my
database seems a bit slow for some reason

There are obviously lots of improvements - at the very least a link to an
editor like we have on the brewmap http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk, so you
can correct things that are tagged incorrectly, then different icons for
different types of features within the layers (they are all the same at the
moment).

There is a 'how it works' section at the bottom of the
maphttp://maps3.org.uk/tiles/historic_layers.htmlif you are curious
about how I have done it.

Hope that helps.


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[Talk-GB] How to get a Relation History?

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
I am trying to find the history of the relation covering the Weardale Way (
86561 ).   I can view the relation itself ok at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/86561, but when I try to view
the history of it with
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/86561/history, I always get a
'sorry...took too long to retrieve' error.
Does anyone know an alternative way of finding out who edited it before me?

Alternatively, I'll ask the question here in case the other user reads this
list

During the Summer I had a go at mapping the Weardale Way from Killhope
eastwards.   We found it very poorly signposted and there seem to be quite
a few branches off it according to the signs (I suspect that the 'official'
route may have changed, but there are some old signs still in place on the
ground).   Since then someone has had a good go at finishing it off, and it
looks like it is complete all the way to the coast now (
http://hiking.lonvia.de/relation/86561?zoom=11lat=54.7635lon=-1.93298route=1hill=1.56).


We were out near Wolsingham yesterday (
http://hiking.lonvia.de/relation/86561?zoom=13lat=54.72406lon=-1.905route=1hill=1.56)
and I found another 'Weardale Way' public footpath sign, that seems to form
a spur off to the West of Wolsingham...but I didn't see any other signs, so
it looks like a path to nowhere.

I am minded to believe that the sign I saw with 'Weardale Way' written on
it was a mistake and it should have been a plain 'public footpath' sign,
but I do not know how to check this.   I wondered if whoever had completed
the Weardale Way had another source of information about the route that we
can use in OSM to check it.   If we can confirm that the sign is incorrect,
I will remove the extra spur path from the route.

On a related subject, there are a lot of signs for a 'Mineral Valleys Walk'
in that area that take you past a lot of old industrial artefacts - I'll
have a go at mapping that in the Spring if anyone would like to help.

Thanks


Graham.

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Re: [Talk-GB] How to get a Relation History?

[Graham Jones]

 There's a great OSM Deep History services at http://osm.mapki.com/history/

 http://osm.mapki.com/history/relation.php?id=86561

 Thanks Andy - I had forgotten about that.

Graham.


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Re: [Talk-GB] How to get a Relation History?

[Graham Jones]

On 15 January 2012 10:27, David Dixon da...@ddixon.force9.co.uk wrote:


 I'm not the user who recently finished off the Weardale Way (and I don't
 know whether that was done from survey) but surveying the Way has been one
 of my projects.  The route between Frosterley and Wolsingham used to be a
 low level route running close to the railway (the way you've just walked),
 but was subsequently changed to a more interesting higher level route (the
 one that's part of the complete OSM relation).  The signs you saw have
 almost certainly been superseded, but perhaps could be mapped as a separate
 Old Weardale Way or alternative route relation?

 A change of route would be consistent with what I have seen on the ground
- if I have followed the old route in places, it could account for why it
is so badly signed!
I think having a 'Weardale Way Alternate Route' relation is probably the
best approach, otherwise you get a bit of a mess with all the little bits
of route that do not appear to go anywhere.
I will email the others who have contributed to the route to see what they
know about the alternative bits.

Cheers

Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

[Graham Jones]

Hi Mick,

On 14 January 2012 05:28, mick bare...@tpg.com.au wrote:


 My goal was to create a 'Bastard Son of OSM' as a means to share my work
 with those people of similar interest but, as OSM has no ability to offer
 user selected layers I'm looking at other options.

 Please let us know which option you settle on - I would be interested to
see how that works.

I think I misunderstood your original question.   I see now that you were
proposing to set up a completely different system, based on the OSM
software.

You could easily use the existing OSM software to produce different map
layers for display based on start/end date / civilization / period etc. for
display to users (as long as you tag the features in the map with these!).

Do you mean editor support for 'layers' to make it easy to edit only
features with a specific start/end date / civlization etc.?The JOSM
editor allows you to filter data (
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Dialog/Filter), which could give you
a similar effect (e.g. only display data tagged as civilization=roman
etc.).  I am not sure if you can do that in Potlatch though.

Therefore I think you could achieve what you want with existing OSM
software.   Maybe a bit of customisation to make editing easier or to allow
filtering on date ranges.

Regards

Graham.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Integration and POI and specific project

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
You can plot POIs stored in a separate file or database using Openlayers:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Openlayers_POI_layer_example.

Or I have an equivalent that uses the Leaflet library instead (
http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk/client/brewmap.html - source at
https://github.com/jones139/BrewMap).

The best way to provide the data will depend on how much data you have to
display - the two examples above are for very modest amounts of data - as
you get more and more you will need a way of providing just the data for
the area of map being displayed.

Regards


Graham.

On 4 January 2012 21:07, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 hi all

 i am working for a website called strainstory.com, a web to collect
 indonesian endangered species, which growing rapidly in indonesia.

 and wanna to map the species, biotope, and put as POI in the OSM,
 which right now we use osmosa.net (idea still).

 any idea for integration tips?

 where should i put the information (right now in strainstory
 database), and how to show in openlayers?

 tips welcome


 F

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

[Graham Jones]

On 2 January 2012 09:49, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote:

 **
 I've been using historic=roman_road but will be switching to
 historic=road, culture=roman as per an excellent tagging schema proposed by
 Francesco de Virgilio at
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Fradeve11/prove2 , as this will
 enable a pan-European approach.


I hadn't seen that proposal - I agree it would be good to have a world-wide
scheme, but I am concerned that we could potentially end up with different
tagging schemes here...and I know how unpopular it would be to 'correct'
them electronically in the future

As far as I can tell there is:

   1. The proposed culture= (no wiki page for it yet other than
   http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Fradeve11/prove2
   2. historic:civilization= -
   https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:historic:civilization

I started a wiki page to record how British historical sites are tagged (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Historic_Britain) - It
would be good to update that with the proposal - the main thing that is
missing from it is a list of 'cultures' or 'civilizations' that we can all
use.

Neither culture nor historic:civilization are that well used, but there are
more historic:civilization entries (see http://taginfo.osm.org).

What I intend to do with my map is to have different layers for different
cultures/civilizations so that you can see all roman features, or all cold
war relics etc.

Regards


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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

[Graham Jones]

On 2 January 2012 11:58, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote:

 the main thing that is missing from it is a list of 'cultures' or
 'civilizations' that we can all use.

 In the UK at least there's a defined and well used list of periods
 provided by the Archaeology Data Service:

 http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/Imagebank/period.jsf

 That list has an elegant simplicity about it.   Richard Light added a link
to the wiki page to a classification system used by English Heritage (
http://light.demon.co.uk/eh-periods.rdf).  Unfortunately it is in quite a
complicated format, and I have not had chance to sit down and decode it
into a simple proposal for tagging - do you know how this compares to your
list?


 Also please note that the above list is for the UK only. On the
 continent, for example, different things happened and happened at
 different times. It probably wouldn't be possible to get a coherent
 tagging scheme across Europe that made any sense; there's simply not a
 consistent European past that could be represented in such a way.

 I agree - the 
 historic:civilizationhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:historic:civilizationpage
  has recommendations for  different regions, so we would just need to
add a suitable UK (or British Isles?), scheme to it.   My concern was more
about using 'culture' rather than 'civilization' and 'period' as that would
seem to be a competing tagging system, rather than just a regional
variation on a general scheme.

Regards

Graham.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

[Graham Jones]

On 2 January 2012 15:47, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:

 Historic mapping wiki page has yet to be created, but start_date and
 end_date would seem to replace the need for Key:historic:period if accurate
 data is available.

I think the issue is availability of accurate data - I am pretty confident
that I can look at a building and think it is Tudor, or a fortress and
guess that it is Nepoleonic, but guessing the date seem somehow harder to
me.
I would like the tagging to be accessible to non-history buffs, so more
qualitative categories would seem easier than trying to be too precise.  By
all means include start_date if it is known though!


 Having been watching a program recently on the development of various
 industrial areas of the UK, it would seem that there is substantial data
 available to provide historic maps. Development and decline of the railway
 system for example is something I've been gathering historic maps that
 provides considerable accurate timelines.

I like this sort of thing too, which is why we will need more categories
than currently proposed 'modern' is too wide given all the changes in the
20th Century.


 The only question that still has not been addressed is one that covers a
 lot of parallel data. SHOULD it be uploaded to the main database, or should
 we have a working method for linking secondary databases into the rendering
 process. Which to my mind still provides the most logical way forward. But
 at what point does an historic element get degraded to the secondary
 storage area? Or more important ... what classifies historic data as being
 'main stream'?

 My view is that if it is something that is still there on the ground (e.g.
the ruins of an old tin mine), then it should go in the main database.   If
there is nothing physically to see, it belongs in a specialist historic
map. I haven't thought about how to make this separate map though

Regards


Graham.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

Hi Will,
I have put what I had previously back on line at
http://www.maps.webhop.net/canals.

The data is quite out of date (maybe 10 months) - I realised that I am
lacking the 'boat=' tag from my database so can not re-render it tonight -
I will re-generate it over the next couple of days.

I did not think anyone was using this because there is an alternative at
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=24.

This one could be developed into more of a 'user' map rather than a
'mapper' tool though - if you are interested in developing the cartography
that would be great - it could do with icons for locks, moorings, water,
fuel etc.

I will move this to my 'maps3.org.uk' site (which is more responsive) from
an end user point of view once I have sorted out the database so I can
render the tiles on demand.

Regards


Graham.

On 1 January 2012 17:55, Will Abson will.ab...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Graham, I came across your waterways map a little while ago, and
 thought it was a great visualisation tool.

 I'm just now trying to take a fresh look at some of the waterways data
 for the UK that's held within OSM, but I see that your map is sadly no
 longer accessible (I get a 404).

 If you'd be interested in making it available again then I could
 perhaps provide some assistance as I have a small Linode server that's
 currently not doing too much, but I would need your help to explain
 how you put the map together.

 It would be great to get the waterways map (or something similar) back
 online again, so please let me know if I can help.

 Cheers,
 Will.

 On 2 February 2011 21:02, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi Folks,
 
  Thanks to Chris for reminding me, I have updated my canals / waterways
 map -
  it should now be up to date as of the early hours of this morning
  (http://maps.webhop.net/canals).
 
  It looks like good progress from the last update - much more like a
 network
  now, but there are still some gaps!
 
  The things I noticed from my part of the country is that the River Tyne
 is
  not rendered - must not have a 'boat=yes' tag - does anyone know how far
 up
  the river you can get a boat to add this?
  Conversely I am not convinced that the river Wear upstream of Durham is
  navigable - I thought it got pretty shallow at Shincliffe?   Also there
 is
  the problem of a Weir, so maybe there are only bits of it downstream that
  are navigable too?
 
  This is still running on the computer in my living room so will seem slow
  because of my internet connection, but I am working on getting minutely
  updating working on a little virtual server, which will seem better from
 the
  outside world - I will be looking for suggestions for other
 visualisations
  to include once I have got that working (adding more is very easy once
 it is
  working), so please think of anything else you would like to see.
 
  Graham.
 
  On 19 January 2011 21:28, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Thank you all for your comments.
 
  Dealing with 'disused' was nice and easy - I have deleted disused locks
  altogether and changed disused canals to a fainter, dotted line (see
 just
  north of Carnforth near Lancaster).  I am not sure I have ever seen a
  'disused' canal - does this mean a ditch, or just an overgrown,
 impassable
  canal?
 
  I have also prevented locks being shown until you zoom in to zoom level
  10.  Updated version now rendering at http://maps.webhop.net/canals,
 using
  the mapnik style http://maps.webhop.net/canals/canal2.xml..
 
  Adding navigable rivers is a good idea, but will take more doing because
  my database does not include the 'boat=' tag - I will have to re-import
 the
  whole uk, which takes a few hours...
 
  Are there any other waterway specific tags that should be included?
 
  What points of interest should a waterways map highlight - I only have
  locks at the moment, because I remember these being the interesting
 part of
  canal boating, but I can add other things - especially if anyone would
 like
  to draw an icon for it - otherwise we will end up with another one of my
  dodgy drawings!
 
  Graham.
 
 
 
  On 19 January 2011 19:24, Chris Moss mosch...@googlemail.com wrote:
 
  Thanks Graham and Malcolm,
 
  Certainly I can see for the first time where the gaps are in the
 waterway
  coverage and it encourages me to explore mapnik and see how everything
  works.
 
  Chris
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

[Graham Jones]

 Is the process for deciding whether or not to delete a node set in stone?
 I am fairly sure that I have moved the majority of those nodes from where
 they were originally (I am fairly sure because there was originally only 1
 path on OSM going up the hill when there are 2 different paths on the
 ground), so surely if I moved them from their original position they can't
 be deleted just because the specific node id in the database was originated
 by someone else?? that's crazy - what's the logic behind that decision -
 shouldn't the check ensure that they are at least in the same place as the
 originator positioned them? Otherwise I can see a lot of senseless
 destruction and that makes me really quite sad.

 I agree, it sounds mad, and I find it hard to believe that 'we' would do
this.   Surely we need to apply a bit of pragmatism to  this and think
about 'reasonableness'?

I can see that it is reasonable to delete the contributions from someone
who has explicitly said that they do not agree to the new terms - that is a
shame, but it is their choice.

From the discussion on this list (and I have not looked into it properly -
I gave up on thinking about licences when the 'debate' all got out of hand
earlier in the year), it sounds as though if someone who has neither
accepted nor declined the terms has touched an object, that object will be
deleted - is this really the intention of those looking after this licence
change?

I see there are three potential reasons for someone neither accepting nor
declining the terms:

   - They really do not agree with them, but for some reason that I can not
   think of they decide not to click the 'decline' button - These are an
   awkward case, but it is up to them to make their intentions clear.
   - They left the project having made their contribution and are now not
   contactable (changed email address etc.), or so un-interested that they do
   not respond.
   - They could be really keen OSM contributors who have since died, so are
   not answering their emails.

In my opinion, it would be reasonable to assume that the last two have the
best interests of the project at heart and do not want to have their
contributions deleted, so they should be retained.  If at some point they
contact us to say that they object to their contributions being in the
database, then yes, delete them, but leave them there until they do.

A pragmatic approach along these lines would seem quite reasonable to me,
and would save a lot of un-necessary re-work - deleting contributions of
people that we can not make contact with just seems excessive, and is
probably not what the non-contactable contributors wanted anyway.

Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

[Graham Jones]

On 13 December 2011 21:25, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:

 The intentions don't matter here, its to be able to defend the new
 licensing / copyright in court you need to show all the content has come
 from people who have accepted the new license.


It will only come to court if someone sues, and in the context of this
re-licensing discussion, the only person who would do that is someone who
has not accepted the new terms, and objects to their data being retained.

My view is that a reasonable approach would be to assume that
non-contactable mappers actually want their data to be used, but if they
complain and say that this is not the case, delete it thenso it would
never go to court.   But I think it is a defensible position anyway - xxx
complained that we retained his data, so we have done what he wanted and
deleted it

Anyway, that is enough of legal stuff for me, but wanted to share what I
think is a reasonable alternative approach to dealing with this issue,
rather than re-mapping things that people may not actually want deleting in
the first place.

Graham.


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Re: [Talk-GB] OS VectorMap water feature import

[Graham Jones]

If not, I have got them on dvd if anyone would like them - probably quicker
for me to post them than upload to a server - I prefer handling the new
bigger files because it keeps the style files for rendering simpler.

Graham

from my phone

On 13 Dec 2011 08:51, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

Is the version from os.openstreetmap the original?
http://os.openstreetmap.org/data/
Cheers
Andy



 -Original Message-
 From: Borbus [mailto:bor...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 12 December 2011 22:...
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Re: [Talk-GB] OS VectorMap water feature import

[Graham Jones]

On 11 December 2011 18:46, Tim François sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk

 The entire process took a long, long time (we're talking many hours), as
 the OS data is all fragmented and needs joining up.

 This is one where it is certainly possible to import the data, but to do
it manually is going to be a huge amount of effort, and I wonder if it is
really worth the effort?

I see the main benefit of OSM in providing 'added value' geographic data
that is not available in other freely available sources.   Last time I made
a map of an outdoor area, I found that the OS Vector Map District (VMD)
water features added a lot to it, because the OSM data was pretty plain.
In the end I actually made the map from a mixture of OSM and VMD Data, with
SRTM generated contours.
I certainly used OSM footpaths and route relations (because they are not in
any of the other data sets) - as I wanted to highlight a walking route.

I used VMD waterways because they were far more complete than OSM.
I think that for the area I was working on (Weardale) I used VMD roads too,
because there are still a lot missing from OSM.

Where I struggled was in woodland areas - you get a lot more if you use
VMD, but I also know that quite a lot have been felled, which can be
changed in OSM, but not VMD, so this was a difficult choice.   (You can see
the output 
herehttps://github.com/jones139/Mapnik-OSM-Styles/raw/master/weardale_way/image_vmd_fc.png
(but
there is something wrong with the grid on the version on that server,
sorry!and the rendering style is not as pretty as the main OSM one).

I wonder if a more productive use of our efforts would be in developing
tools to make it easier to make such merged data maps and highlight the
'value added' bits from OSM that make it stand out from a Land Ranger map?
   [Things like showing all the industrial archeology, real ale pubs etc.].

I am working (very slowly) on a tool that will pull together the required
data to produce these sort of things and render it at high resolution for
printing.It is not at the sort of state that I would publish it and
recommend that someone just tries it (no nice front end), but it is getting
there and I can make maps from it when I want to.  I would be happy to put
more effort into it if there was interest (or anyone interested in
helping!).

One final thing is that if we do say that we will not import the VMD data
into OSM, this means that it will not appear on the main OSM web site map.
  We could show off what is possible though by making a 'osm-uk' site with
a web map that combines the various data sources in a web map?

Regards


Graham.
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Re: [OSM-talk] GNIS quality improvement, was: USGS Topo maps

[Graham Jones]

On 28 November 2011 19:10, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote:


 That makes sense, but how do you deal with logging the modifier of the
 data - is this a webapp, and do people log in with OAuth?

 If you decide to develop this as a web application, it might be worth
looking at the outcome of one of last year's Google Summer of Code
projects, where Michael Daines was working on a simple map editor based on
javascript (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Simple_Map_Editor - source
code at https://github.com/mdaines/simple-map-editor).

He got it working with OAuth so it could be a good basis for your
application if you produce a custom user interface for it.

Graham.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM based project - PrishtinaBuses.info

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
It looks very good, well done!  I'll have a look at your code to see how it
works.

Graham.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 27 November 2011 12:07, Craig Loftus craigloftus+...@googlemail.com
 wrote:

  There has been a little discussion on the talk page about this. I
  think Andy is mainly interested in specialist shops (shop=alcohol) and
  noting whether they sell real ale, either draught or bottled. As a
  first punt I suggested overloading real_ale (real_beer), with
  'draught' and 'bottled' values.
 
  Did we agree on these tags?

 Nobody disagreed. There haven't been any other suggestions, or the
 objections I expected to the use of real_beer.


Go on then, I'll disagree - why do we need a new key called real_beer
(currently 1 use in the database) when there is an existing key called
real_ale with 878 entries in the database.

It could be that I am not a beer-buff and don't appreciate the distinction,
but they are synonymous to my simple mind, so I would have just gone with
real_ale, which is a more common term as far as I am aware.

ducks waiting for abuse from fans of real beer!

I am happy to try out our current rendering system with pubs, but I think
it will feel a bit sluggish (lots more data than for breweries etc.) -
working on a better system now...
But I will need a bribe - Icons.

If someone provides a set of icons for un-real and real ale (beer) pubs,
off-licences etc, I will put them on a map for you!   PNG images at say
32x32 pixels will be fine.

Graham.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 It is only splitting hairs if your beer horizon extends no further
 than the channel.

 Where I was coming from is that I think that 'real-stuff=yes' is useful as
it distinguishes the supplier of 'craft' products from 'industrial' ones.
The problem is that there are lots of different types of stuff - ale, beer,
cider, perry - I am sure there are lots more.

Having a separate key for each one seems a bit over the top, because at one
level a user may just want to know if a place just sells Carlsberg and John
Smiths, or something more interesting.
Those with more advanced pallets than I may well then be interested if it
the interesting thing is ale, beer, fancy Belgian lager things, German
wheat beer, hand crushed apple cider etc. etc.

Therefore I would prefer to see a more generic type of 'real-stuff' key
used which can be 'yes' or 'ale|beer|.', depending on how keen the
mapper is feeling.

We could then show every outlet with 'real-stuff'!=null on the map and link
to its web site.   We could also have different icons for different values
of 'real-stuff'.   An equivalent of tagQueries could identify where
philistines have said real-stuff=yes, so a connoisseur can add the extra
detail if required.

I thought that 'real ale' had become quite a generic term so could have
been used as a synonym for 'real-stuff', but it would be interesting to
know what the Germans and Belgians would call their posh beers to see if
real-ale is too English - or is that where the proposal for 'real-beer'
came from?


Graham.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 25 November 2011 10:02, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:

 The page is working for me again. Yes, “Former Brewery” is the former
 Ridley’s site. Bishop Nick launched their first beer at The Compasses,
 Littley Green (next village over) recently; their old brewery tap. Not sure
 what the site used for now, but am about to change “name” to “description”
 as it has never been called “Former Brewery”.

 ** **

 Ed


 Maybe 'Former' in the name is a bit of a giveaway and I should filter
those out of the tagQueries listI suppose the question is are there any
'Former Mansfield Brewery' etc., now brewing something else?

For the non-beer lover's out there, you may notice that Craig has
implemented layer switching, so you can click on the map key on
BrewMaphttp://brewmap.maps3.org.ukto switch layers on and off, so
you can just look at for instance wineries
if you prefer.   I am quite surprised how many wineries there are in the
UK

Graham.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 I notice the South/ South West is looking a bit empty, so I started a list
 of places I know but need investigating further before marking on the map
 (some I could do as single node as a very rough placement - but should be
 able to get better trace / identify stuff using Bing Aerials).

 Thanks to user m902 for mapping some that were on my list.

 Thanks - I saw 'm902' had been busy!

In case some of you wonder what has happened to vineyards, I have removed
things that are just tagged as 'landuse=vineyard' from the map (on the
ground that that means a field full of plants, and as Craig said if we do
that for wine, we should show hopp fields for beer).   I am now showing
only craft/industry = winery instead.  But because lots of vineyards are
wineries too, I have added them to the tagQueries page.

Regards


Graham.

On 23 November 2011 23:05, Robert Norris rw_nor...@hotmail.com wrote:

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Graham Jones
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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 22 November 2011 09:02, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:

 Is there a way to flag false positives?

Well, I don't have one at the moment.   I was thinking of trying to refine
them out of the tagQueries list by trapping landuse=retail etc., but you
are right that this will not work for everything.

It is a bit of an abuse of the tag, but makes sense to me, so how
about brewery=no?

Graham.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 22 November 2011 20:46, Craig Loftus craigloftus+...@googlemail.comwrote:

  It is a bit of an abuse of the tag, but makes sense to me, so how
  about brewery=no?

 I think this is backwards. There is nothing wrong with naming
 something a brewery but it not being one. The marker should be applied
 to the tagQuery list, similar to Keepright. You could then write more
 exclusion rules if a pattern emerges from the entries being marked.


You are right a separate exclusions list just for this map would be the
most 'correct' thing to do to save putting spurious tags in the OSM
database.  I was being lazy though - a check for brewery!='no' tag is
trivial to implement, whereas a way of allowing users to add items to an
exclusions list takes a bit more doing (at least if we want a bit of
security like user authentication).

I do have a nearly finished codeigniter/bonfire application that could run
on my server that does user authentication and I could add a module to that
to manage an exclusions list, but I have never quite got around to
finishing it.

Could just do it manually for now I suppose?

Graham.

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