[talk-ph] Fwd: [HOT] A new, very good, article about HOT from Fast Company
Nice article. -- Forwarded message -- From: Andrew Buck andrew.r.b...@gmail.com Date: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:18 AM Subject: [HOT] A new, very good, article about HOT from Fast Company To: HOT h...@openstreetmap.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hey everyone, Just wanted to share this link to a particularly well written article about the HOT ebola response so far. http://www.fastcolabs.com/3037350/elasticity/inside-the-crowdsourced-map-project-that-is-helping-contain-the-ebola-epidemic Pierre and I did interviews with Jay Cassano, the author of the piece, last week and it was published today. Thanks to everyone who has volunteered on the mapping so far. Without your mapping contributions, articles like this don't get written, and HOT does not grow. - -AndrewBuck -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUR9i/AAoJEK7RwIfxHSXbQoMP+wa/fr10O5/gpZZcpl8SNq/M uGnDcgVnMNcsonCThz8AkHyl3oY6US4oADlo2587r8txOwvGF1gZUO6dE3Zfyh9c o6gxn1sdgoLmJhkMBs2NsPPNnr0el10HiB7+utd+G9en2SX49F/c6sY8yCW74AXM WUfww1zbvHLRLdGo/eMGB+GceM2wBymzazllOzKT/kS92KjC3p26O+od6svT2JeZ dOFGg8y51b924u/K3dROhUl0rPVzrgdMr84/zW/TOwNb1UU/iEZ4BNQyamNLPAx0 3SQ4ED2jAqOXteg7dVJj/R2SC1u1NOnciDfFKY7ctCGURXth9ZCedrAdQoW7zttt Y/1YhRqw+hDjZZC0ZwjALW4wDvxltIaX5iVjuesa8Bz8fBgpkMtKblYDnqe7HwEo mx19Z2QsLFrSUTu+s7eEH+3zQvVYAOSyVJrOVAkIdA0RnSxZqbfwx+ccAspwDj2s 6AfRsAsXpR0MpFlmw746sjKz4kOFhPucO/5qvw3QS2/enOYR0xnXdZphj6xL5WPi y++1KfJYditvG9YwvGWZR8avqC9uyDulHHH/zw0hDXNy4A1dY34VFYkbNURpCY4e eVf47lZLS9b8guxMZiwiS4YuhGoLJ2UP3Vsvxiklc+FDCBJ7GHe1yT/6T6lKb2CB Oe3Ln0miJmCgd5imnJEp =rNvf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ HOT mailing list h...@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: [HOT] A new, very good, article about HOT from Fast Company
Hi All, There's also a nice article about the Missing Maps project out with Fast Co Design: http://www.fastcodesign.com/3037423/how-the-missing-maps-project-is-crowdsourcing-data-on-hundreds-of-uncharted-cities The article makes it sound like we're already up and running, when in fact we're just getting started. Still, it's a nice summary of our ambitions and vision. We do not refer to people as ground troops! Best, Robert On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:01 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Nice article. -- Forwarded message -- From: Andrew Buck andrew.r.b...@gmail.com Date: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:18 AM Subject: [HOT] A new, very good, article about HOT from Fast Company To: HOT h...@openstreetmap.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hey everyone, Just wanted to share this link to a particularly well written article about the HOT ebola response so far. http://www.fastcolabs.com/3037350/elasticity/inside-the-crowdsourced-map-project-that-is-helping-contain-the-ebola-epidemic Pierre and I did interviews with Jay Cassano, the author of the piece, last week and it was published today. Thanks to everyone who has volunteered on the mapping so far. Without your mapping contributions, articles like this don't get written, and HOT does not grow. - -AndrewBuck -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUR9i/AAoJEK7RwIfxHSXbQoMP+wa/fr10O5/gpZZcpl8SNq/M uGnDcgVnMNcsonCThz8AkHyl3oY6US4oADlo2587r8txOwvGF1gZUO6dE3Zfyh9c o6gxn1sdgoLmJhkMBs2NsPPNnr0el10HiB7+utd+G9en2SX49F/c6sY8yCW74AXM WUfww1zbvHLRLdGo/eMGB+GceM2wBymzazllOzKT/kS92KjC3p26O+od6svT2JeZ dOFGg8y51b924u/K3dROhUl0rPVzrgdMr84/zW/TOwNb1UU/iEZ4BNQyamNLPAx0 3SQ4ED2jAqOXteg7dVJj/R2SC1u1NOnciDfFKY7ctCGURXth9ZCedrAdQoW7zttt Y/1YhRqw+hDjZZC0ZwjALW4wDvxltIaX5iVjuesa8Bz8fBgpkMtKblYDnqe7HwEo mx19Z2QsLFrSUTu+s7eEH+3zQvVYAOSyVJrOVAkIdA0RnSxZqbfwx+ccAspwDj2s 6AfRsAsXpR0MpFlmw746sjKz4kOFhPucO/5qvw3QS2/enOYR0xnXdZphj6xL5WPi y++1KfJYditvG9YwvGWZR8avqC9uyDulHHH/zw0hDXNy4A1dY34VFYkbNURpCY4e eVf47lZLS9b8guxMZiwiS4YuhGoLJ2UP3Vsvxiklc+FDCBJ7GHe1yT/6T6lKb2CB Oe3Ln0miJmCgd5imnJEp =rNvf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ HOT mailing list h...@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Zeker weten, ik vind net een PM in mijn mailbox van een nieuwe mapper die pas bezig is en die weet idd niet dat AGIV bestaat (en gebruiken meestal ook ID editor). Ik vind dit ook niet direct in de (Nl-talige) wiki. Maar uit die boodschap onthou ik een aantal dingen: - geen weet van Bing offset's - geen idee hoe ze dit moeten toevoegen in ID - blijkbaar ook geen weet van het bestaan van JOSM Het is dus ook wel een informatie probleem, naast een praktisch probleem. Probleem van een default is : - te lokaal - te zware load op de AGIV tile servers door teveel gebruikers is goed mogelijk Een waarschuwing in JOSM/ID als de laagste zoomlevel(s) geselecteerd worden zou niet slecht zijn. Probleem van de BING offset (Andre heeft dit al eens uitgelegd) is dat de afwijking niet constant is. Op de evenaar of hier, er is een verschi, dus je kan niet zomaar 1 vaste offset ingeven om dit te fixen. We zouden in ieder geval voor vlaanderen AGIV beter moeten promoten. Glenn On 22-10-14 05:17, Marc Gemis wrote: Zou het bing-probleem al niet opgelost kunnen worden als we AGIV gemakkelijker beschikbaar maken in de verschillende editors ? of zelfs als default voor Vlaanderen (als dat mogelijk is) ? ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Ik dacht dat JOSM de mogelijkheid had om lokaal een andere lijst van achtergronden te geven. Ik meen mij bv. te herinneren dat ik in Frankrijk andere servers te zien kreeg dan hier in België. Maar het is inderdaad zo dat het heel moeilijk is om al de door jou aangehaalde punten te weten te komen, zelfs als je er naar zoekt. En IMHO, dat is al slechts een klein deel de mensen die beginnen mappen. toevallig passeerde dit op blogs.openstreetmap.org, hoe je andere beelden kan kiezen in iD en JOSM (wel in het Braziliaans, meer de tekening met nummertjes volstaat misschien). Ivm. het promoten: op de wiki ? op osm.be ? waar gaan de nieuwkomers dat het snelste vinden ? Of de oldtimers die nooit deze lijst lezen ? m 2014-10-22 10:41 GMT+02:00 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be: Zeker weten, ik vind net een PM in mijn mailbox van een nieuwe mapper die pas bezig is en die weet idd niet dat AGIV bestaat (en gebruiken meestal ook ID editor). Ik vind dit ook niet direct in de (Nl-talige) wiki. Maar uit die boodschap onthou ik een aantal dingen: - geen weet van Bing offset's - geen idee hoe ze dit moeten toevoegen in ID - blijkbaar ook geen weet van het bestaan van JOSM Het is dus ook wel een informatie probleem, naast een praktisch probleem. Probleem van een default is : - te lokaal - te zware load op de AGIV tile servers door teveel gebruikers is goed mogelijk Een waarschuwing in JOSM/ID als de laagste zoomlevel(s) geselecteerd worden zou niet slecht zijn. Probleem van de BING offset (Andre heeft dit al eens uitgelegd) is dat de afwijking niet constant is. Op de evenaar of hier, er is een verschi, dus je kan niet zomaar 1 vaste offset ingeven om dit te fixen. We zouden in ieder geval voor vlaanderen AGIV beter moeten promoten. Glenn On 22-10-14 05:17, Marc Gemis wrote: Zou het bing-probleem al niet opgelost kunnen worden als we AGIV gemakkelijker beschikbaar maken in de verschillende editors ? of zelfs als default voor Vlaanderen (als dat mogelijk is) ? ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Dag allemaal, Ik volg hier regelmatig de discussies en zou graag ook mijn mening geven omdat er nogal wat misverstanden hun gang gveaan. Ik ben van 1933 en gebruik JOSM sinds 2008 en map sinds 2011, eerst in Potlach, daarna op aanraden van lodde1949 gebruik ik JOSM. Als geocacher ben ik begonnen met wandelpaden en gedurende de wintermaanden map ik gebieden, straten en huizen op kaart te zetten. De laatste tijd ook de huisnummers vanuit AGIV GRB op een netbook in mijn luie zetel. Om te mappen gebruikte ik in het begin, buiten GPS gegevens, de luchtopnames van BING, zowel voor straten als voor de gebouwen en gebieden. Nu heb ik in JOSM als onderliggende kaarten Bing, de luchtfoto's van AGIV en de GRB kaart van AGIV. Om adressen te valideren gebruik ik de validatie van Bpost, vooral in gemeenten met meerdere zonenummers. Wat ik niet begrijp is dat men CRAB gegevens van AGIV mag inladen, maar dezelfde gegevens niet zou mogen overnemen van de onderliggende GRB AGIV kaart en die zijn toch dezelfde. Dat rechtstreeks inladen van de CRAB gegevens ligt trouwens totaal buiten mijn petje, zoals trouwens een deel van de onderwerpen die hier aan de orde komen. Ten opzichte van GRB heeft de AGIV fotokaart ook soms wat offset, minder dan BING, maar toch merkbaar. Deze offset is lokaal en komt waarschijnlijk van de manier waarop men de foto's verbonden heeft. Er zijn ook plaatsen waar plots de schaduw een andere kant opgaat. Waarschijnlijk is in GRB de locatie van de percelen de meest juiste want er zijn soms gebouwen waarvan de locatie niet overeenkomt met de percelen, wat uiteindelijk ook wel kan. Ik kom juist terug uit Kroatië en heb daar 2 weken lang al de wandelingen met GPS opgenomen. Al bij al is er weinig verschil met de Bing gegevens. Over het opnemen van een GPS positie heb ik ook mijn bedenkingen. Als geocacher heb ik daar wat ervaring mee en wil men met de normale apparatuur een punt opnemen, dan moet men daar uren aan besteden. Op mijn GARMIN Dakota20 staat er een speciale functie om zo precies mogelijk een punt op te nemen. Dat duurt al minuten en op het einde zegt het programma, kom minstens na een uur nog eens terug. ;-) Huisnummers opgeven in een gebied waar men de gebouwen nog niet uitgetekend heeft vind ik ook maar niets en geeft een slordig eindresultaat. Ik vindt het dringender van de huizen zelf eerst op de kaart te zetten. Nu met AGIV kan men de huizen onmiddellijk in 2 klikken nummeren en andere gegevens ingeven, in JOSM is er daarvoor een goede plug-in. Nu vind men soms huisnummers midden van een bos. In de grensstreek met Nederland heeft men op een bepaald ogenblik gegevens van 3Dshapes ingeladen maar zo te zien zonder controle. Dat is ook een ramp wanneer men dat gebied op kaart wil verbeteren. Er zit ook weinig logica in de manier waarop men in sommige gemeenten de huisnummers uitgedeeld heeft. Het beste voorbeeld is Balen (bij Tommeke) , men heeft er al enkele situatie rechtgezet, maar er blijft nog wat werk over. Ook wanneer er bij een nummer letters bijkomen is er geen vaste regel. In de GRB map zitten ook tal van fouten, soms loopt GRB vooruit op de fotomozaiek, soms omgekeerd. En soms staan ze allebei achter, wat soms ook problemen geeft. Gilbert zal mij niet tegenspreken. ;-) Dit alles om te zeggen dat ik weinig geloof in het via programmatie de CRAB gegevens over te brengen. susvhv Le 22/10/14 11:05, Marc Gemis a écrit : Ik dacht dat JOSM de mogelijkheid had om lokaal een andere lijst van achtergronden te geven. Ik meen mij bv. te herinneren dat ik in Frankrijk andere servers te zien kreeg dan hier in België. Maar het is inderdaad zo dat het heel moeilijk is om al de door jou aangehaalde punten te weten te komen, zelfs als je er naar zoekt. En IMHO, dat is al slechts een klein deel de mensen die beginnen mappen. toevallig passeerde dit op blogs.openstreetmap.org http://blogs.openstreetmap.org, hoe je andere beelden kan kiezen in iD en JOSM (wel in het Braziliaans, meer de tekening met nummertjes volstaat misschien). Ivm. het promoten: op de wiki ? op osm.be http://osm.be ? waar gaan de nieuwkomers dat het snelste vinden ? Of de oldtimers die nooit deze lijst lezen ? m 2014-10-22 10:41 GMT+02:00 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be: Zeker weten, ik vind net een PM in mijn mailbox van een nieuwe mapper die pas bezig is en die weet idd niet dat AGIV bestaat (en gebruiken meestal ook ID editor). Ik vind dit ook niet direct in de (Nl-talige) wiki. Maar uit die boodschap onthou ik een aantal dingen: - geen weet van Bing offset's - geen idee hoe ze dit moeten toevoegen in ID - blijkbaar ook geen weet van het bestaan van JOSM Het is dus ook wel een informatie probleem, naast een praktisch probleem. Probleem van een default is : - te lokaal - te zware load op de AGIV tile servers door teveel gebruikers is goed mogelijk Een waarschuwing
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Sus, de data van de AGIV Crab database bevat enkel de huisnummers. Die mogen we overnemen. De gebouwen niet. De bedoeling van al deze programmatie is niet om de gegevens automatisch in OSM te pompen. De bedoeling is om data op een of andere manier bij de mapper te krijgen. Die kan de gegevens dan inladen in JOSM, bewerken en opladen. Verder moet de programmatie de mapper ook toelaten om aan te geven wat al gedaan is, zodat geen twee mensen hetzelfde werk gaan doen. Dit laatste doen ze in de USA bijvoorbeeld met een task manager, net zoals HOT dat doet. Hier is voor een andere aanpak gekozen. Het is best mogelijk dat ik hier en daar een huisnummer in een bos heb gezet, maar wat doe je als de luchtfoto's enkel bomen laten zien en geen gebouw ? Ik ga de GRB kaart niet gebruiken omdat als de huizen er exact hetzelfde uitzien in OSM, zouden we wel eens last kunnen krijgen en alles moeten verwijderen (zie mijn eerste zin). nog veel map plezier m 2014-10-22 17:13 GMT+02:00 Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com: Dag allemaal, Ik volg hier regelmatig de discussies en zou graag ook mijn mening geven omdat er nogal wat misverstanden hun gang gveaan. Ik ben van 1933 en gebruik JOSM sinds 2008 en map sinds 2011, eerst in Potlach, daarna op aanraden van lodde1949 gebruik ik JOSM. Als geocacher ben ik begonnen met wandelpaden en gedurende de wintermaanden map ik gebieden, straten en huizen op kaart te zetten. De laatste tijd ook de huisnummers vanuit AGIV GRB op een netbook in mijn luie zetel. Om te mappen gebruikte ik in het begin, buiten GPS gegevens, de luchtopnames van BING, zowel voor straten als voor de gebouwen en gebieden. Nu heb ik in JOSM als onderliggende kaarten Bing, de luchtfoto's van AGIV en de GRB kaart van AGIV. Om adressen te valideren gebruik ik de validatie van Bpost, vooral in gemeenten met meerdere zonenummers. Wat ik niet begrijp is dat men CRAB gegevens van AGIV mag inladen, maar dezelfde gegevens niet zou mogen overnemen van de onderliggende GRB AGIV kaart en die zijn toch dezelfde. Dat rechtstreeks inladen van de CRAB gegevens ligt trouwens totaal buiten mijn petje, zoals trouwens een deel van de onderwerpen die hier aan de orde komen. Ten opzichte van GRB heeft de AGIV fotokaart ook soms wat offset, minder dan BING, maar toch merkbaar. Deze offset is lokaal en komt waarschijnlijk van de manier waarop men de foto's verbonden heeft. Er zijn ook plaatsen waar plots de schaduw een andere kant opgaat. Waarschijnlijk is in GRB de locatie van de percelen de meest juiste want er zijn soms gebouwen waarvan de locatie niet overeenkomt met de percelen, wat uiteindelijk ook wel kan. Ik kom juist terug uit Kroatië en heb daar 2 weken lang al de wandelingen met GPS opgenomen. Al bij al is er weinig verschil met de Bing gegevens. Over het opnemen van een GPS positie heb ik ook mijn bedenkingen. Als geocacher heb ik daar wat ervaring mee en wil men met de normale apparatuur een punt opnemen, dan moet men daar uren aan besteden. Op mijn GARMIN Dakota20 staat er een speciale functie om zo precies mogelijk een punt op te nemen. Dat duurt al minuten en op het einde zegt het programma, kom minstens na een uur nog eens terug. ;-) Huisnummers opgeven in een gebied waar men de gebouwen nog niet uitgetekend heeft vind ik ook maar niets en geeft een slordig eindresultaat. Ik vindt het dringender van de huizen zelf eerst op de kaart te zetten. Nu met AGIV kan men de huizen onmiddellijk in 2 klikken nummeren en andere gegevens ingeven, in JOSM is er daarvoor een goede plug-in. Nu vind men soms huisnummers midden van een bos. In de grensstreek met Nederland heeft men op een bepaald ogenblik gegevens van 3Dshapes ingeladen maar zo te zien zonder controle. Dat is ook een ramp wanneer men dat gebied op kaart wil verbeteren. Er zit ook weinig logica in de manier waarop men in sommige gemeenten de huisnummers uitgedeeld heeft. Het beste voorbeeld is Balen (bij Tommeke) , men heeft er al enkele situatie rechtgezet, maar er blijft nog wat werk over. Ook wanneer er bij een nummer letters bijkomen is er geen vaste regel. In de GRB map zitten ook tal van fouten, soms loopt GRB vooruit op de fotomozaiek, soms omgekeerd. En soms staan ze allebei achter, wat soms ook problemen geeft. Gilbert zal mij niet tegenspreken. ;-) Dit alles om te zeggen dat ik weinig geloof in het via programmatie de CRAB gegevens over te brengen. susvhv Le 22/10/14 11:05, Marc Gemis a écrit : Ik dacht dat JOSM de mogelijkheid had om lokaal een andere lijst van achtergronden te geven. Ik meen mij bv. te herinneren dat ik in Frankrijk andere servers te zien kreeg dan hier in België. Maar het is inderdaad zo dat het heel moeilijk is om al de door jou aangehaalde punten te weten te komen, zelfs als je er naar zoekt. En IMHO, dat is al slechts een klein deel de mensen die beginnen mappen. toevallig passeerde dit op blogs.openstreetmap.org, hoe je andere beelden kan kiezen in iD en JOSM (wel in
Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM memory eater
je kan de default locatie blijkbaar wijzigen. Meer info in http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248 Ik herinner me vaag dat Gilbert dit vorig jaar al eens heeft aangehaald. Er was toen ook een ticket geopend bij JOSM dacht ik, maar dus nog zonder succes. -- One can change the default location of the cache, see http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248 Wasn't there some discussion about this last year. Didn't somebody open a ticket ? groeten m 2014-10-22 17:58 GMT+02:00 Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com: Dag allemaal, Wanneer ik bij iemand JOSM aanbeveel voel ik mij verplicht ze te melden dat er een een addertje onder het gras ligt. Het cachegeheugen van JOSM is hier op een PC al uitgelopen in een WinXP tot 20 GB, jaja giga. Wat de basis partitie volledig opgevuld had met gevolg dat Win XP vastliep. Het heeft wel wat geduurd om de schuldige op te sporen. Dat heeft ook nefaste gevolgen wanneer men een image maakt van de basis partitie dat altijd maar blijft aangroeien. Zijt ge van het probleem niet bewust, doe een search op mercator en de meesten zullen verschrikt staan, ook in Ubuntu of een andere Windows is dat zo. Men kan gerust alles wat onder de folder Cache staat verwijderen. JOSM maakt alles terug aan en men merkt er niets van. Ik doe het regelmatig met een batchfile wanneer JOSM uitgeschakeld is. In de berichten zie ik dat er leden zijn die JOSM kunnen patchen, die zouden best een oplossing vinden. ;-) Salut, Lorsque je conseille à quelqu'un d'utiliser JOSM je me sens obligé de l'avertir que le cache de JOSM ne cesse de grandir et va jusqu'à corrompre un système. Sous WinXP j'ai un jour retrouvé un cache gonflé à plus de 20 GB. C'est gênant car les images système ne cessent de grandir. Si vous ignorer le problème, faites une recherche sur mercator et vous m'en direz des nouvelles. Même problème sous Ubuntu ou les autres Windows. On peut sans problèmes mettre à la poubelle tout ce qui se trouve sous le répertoire cache de JOSM avec JOSM à l'arrêt, il refera les répertoires au prochain démarrage. Je le fais régulièrement avec un batchfile. Je vois que certains membres patchent JOSM, ils ont peut-être la solution. ;-) susvhv ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM memory eater
Memory problems just go hand in hand with applications that have to manage a lot of data, like JOSM. And when there's not enough memory available, it starts swapping or caching. Java also has automatic memory management, which means that you can't have memory leaks (Java always cleans up the memory you don't need anymore). But this also means that programmers don't have a lot of control over the memory usage. Well written C- programs will usually have better memory management than Java programs. But it's easier to introduce bugs in your C-program that makes everything crash. So the combination of Java with a data-managing application might not be the best choice, but at least it's easier to program, so development goes faster. The main thing you can do as a user is keeping an eye on your memory usage, and restarting JOSM every now and then to free up some memory again. Regards, Sander je kan de default locatie blijkbaar wijzigen. Meer info in http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248 Ik herinner me vaag dat Gilbert dit vorig jaar al eens heeft aangehaald. Er was toen ook een ticket geopend bij JOSM dacht ik, maar dus nog zonder succes. -- One can change the default location of the cache, see http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248 Wasn't there some discussion about this last year. Didn't somebody open a ticket ? groeten m 2014-10-22 17:58 GMT+02:00 Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com: Dag allemaal, Wanneer ik bij iemand JOSM aanbeveel voel ik mij verplicht ze te melden dat er een een addertje onder het gras ligt. Het cachegeheugen van JOSM is hier op een PC al uitgelopen in een WinXP tot 20 GB, jaja giga. Wat de basis partitie volledig opgevuld had met gevolg dat Win XP vastliep. Het heeft wel wat geduurd om de schuldige op te sporen. Dat heeft ook nefaste gevolgen wanneer men een image maakt van de basis partitie dat altijd maar blijft aangroeien. Zijt ge van het probleem niet bewust, doe een search op mercator en de meesten zullen verschrikt staan, ook in Ubuntu of een andere Windows is dat zo. Men kan gerust alles wat onder de folder Cache staat verwijderen. JOSM maakt alles terug aan en men merkt er niets van. Ik doe het regelmatig met een batchfile wanneer JOSM uitgeschakeld is. In de berichten zie ik dat er leden zijn die JOSM kunnen patchen, die zouden best een oplossing vinden. ;-) Salut, Lorsque je conseille à quelqu'un d'utiliser JOSM je me sens obligé de l'avertir que le cache de JOSM ne cesse de grandir et va jusqu'à corrompre un système. Sous WinXP j'ai un jour retrouvé un cache gonflé à plus de 20 GB. C'est gênant car les images système ne cessent de grandir. Si vous ignorer le problème, faites une recherche sur mercator et vous m'en direz des nouvelles. Même problème sous Ubuntu ou les autres Windows. On peut sans problèmes mettre à la poubelle tout ce qui se trouve sous le répertoire cache de JOSM avec JOSM à l'arrêt, il refera les répertoires au prochain démarrage. Je le fais régulièrement avec un batchfile. Je vois que certains membres patchent JOSM, ils ont peut-être la solution. ;-) susvhv ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Marc, Ik teken een gebouw met als ondergrond de fotomozaïek, daarna neem ik als ondergrond GRB. Komt het ongeveer overeen, wat dikwijls het geval is, ga ik naar het volgende. Is een groot verschil, dan ga ik terug naar de fotomozaïek en verbeter. Daarna neem ik het huisnummer en straatnaam over. Is dat copiëren of bewerken? sus Le 22/10/14 18:00, Marc Gemis a écrit : Sus, de data van de AGIV Crab database bevat enkel de huisnummers. Die mogen we overnemen. De gebouwen niet. De bedoeling van al deze programmatie is niet om de gegevens automatisch in OSM te pompen. De bedoeling is om data op een of andere manier bij de mapper te krijgen. Die kan de gegevens dan inladen in JOSM, bewerken en opladen. Verder moet de programmatie de mapper ook toelaten om aan te geven wat al gedaan is, zodat geen twee mensen hetzelfde werk gaan doen. Dit laatste doen ze in de USA bijvoorbeeld met een task manager, net zoals HOT dat doet. Hier is voor een andere aanpak gekozen. Het is best mogelijk dat ik hier en daar een huisnummer in een bos heb gezet, maar wat doe je als de luchtfoto's enkel bomen laten zien en geen gebouw ? Ik ga de GRB kaart niet gebruiken omdat als de huizen er exact hetzelfde uitzien in OSM, zouden we wel eens last kunnen krijgen en alles moeten verwijderen (zie mijn eerste zin). nog veel map plezier m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Dat is eerder uw verstand gebruiken, tot nader order is dit nog OK volgens de regering, maar je weet maar nooit wat er zal komen ;-) Als je de locatie 'gemiddeld' positioneert denk ik dat niemand echt kan claimen dat je kopieert. Eigenlijk is het een beetje bullshit, want als OSM nu echt accuraat zou zijn wat een bepaalde building betreft, en AGIV is ook accuraat, dan moeten ze theoretisch toch bijna exact hetzelfde staan. Dit is technisch geen copy. Kan je dat bewijzen? Niet echt. Hoef je dat te bewijzen? Ook niet echt, iemand die klaagt zal het moeten bewijzen dat het een copy is. Daar zijn ook wel truuks voor , oa express fouten maken in geometrie, een fictieve straat maken. Een straatnaam verkeerd spellen easter eggs dus. Dan land je uiteindelijk op de volgende discussie: kwa gps coordinaten, tot welke plaats na de komma is het 'ongeveer' gelijk, en vanaf welke plaats na de komma is het exact een copy? Ik ben er zeker van dat nu reeds, zonder een copy van de huizen uit AGIV er al wel een heel aantal reeds exact hetzelfde moeten staan tov. OSM, gewoon omdat er goed werk geleverd wordt. Wat me wel opvalt is dat de geometrie van een deel van de gebouwen niet overeenkomt met wat ik zie in het echt, maw. Illegaal bijgebouwd ? Onnauwkeurige data? Of Easter Egg op AGIV ? Glenn On 22-10-14 18:44, Verhoeven Fr wrote: Marc, Ik teken een gebouw met als ondergrond de fotomozaïek, daarna neem ik als ondergrond GRB. Komt het ongeveer overeen, wat dikwijls het geval is, ga ik naar het volgende. Is een groot verschil, dan ga ik terug naar de fotomozaïek en verbeter. Daarna neem ik het huisnummer en straatnaam over. Is dat copiëren of bewerken? sus Le 22/10/14 18:00, Marc Gemis a écrit : Sus, de data van de AGIV Crab database bevat enkel de huisnummers. Die mogen we overnemen. De gebouwen niet. De bedoeling van al deze programmatie is niet om de gegevens automatisch in OSM te pompen. De bedoeling is om data op een of andere manier bij de mapper te krijgen. Die kan de gegevens dan inladen in JOSM, bewerken en opladen. Verder moet de programmatie de mapper ook toelaten om aan te geven wat al gedaan is, zodat geen twee mensen hetzelfde werk gaan doen. Dit laatste doen ze in de USA bijvoorbeeld met een task manager, net zoals HOT dat doet. Hier is voor een andere aanpak gekozen. Het is best mogelijk dat ik hier en daar een huisnummer in een bos heb gezet, maar wat doe je als de luchtfoto's enkel bomen laten zien en geen gebouw ? Ik ga de GRB kaart niet gebruiken omdat als de huizen er exact hetzelfde uitzien in OSM, zouden we wel eens last kunnen krijgen en alles moeten verwijderen (zie mijn eerste zin). nog veel map plezier m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM memory eater
Men kan de cache folder wijzigen van TMS, voor WMS vind ik niets, ook niet in de nieuwe JOSM versie van vandaag. Na een remove en install van de nieuwe versie van JOSM in Ubuntu is de cache inhoud niet veranderd. Voor mij is dat geen echt probleem meer, maar dat is wel een probleem als ik iemand aanzet om te mappen met JOSM en dien geen systeembeheerder of kenner is. Groeten Le 22/10/14 18:06, Marc Gemis a écrit : je kan de default locatie blijkbaar wijzigen. Meer info in http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248 Ik herinner me vaag dat Gilbert dit vorig jaar al eens heeft aangehaald. Er was toen ook een ticket geopend bij JOSM dacht ik, maar dus nog zonder succes. -- One can change the default location of the cache, see http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248 Wasn't there some discussion about this last year. Didn't somebody open a ticket ? groeten m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM memory eater
Klopt het dat je het niet echt over (intern) geheugen (RAM) hebt, maar wel over schijfruimte? Je mag al die folders met nummertjes in je JOSM folder regelmatig opruimen. Ik moet daar geregeld 50GB weghalen om weer verder te kunnen werken. F12 vinkje bij Expert mode zetten Advanced Settings Imagery.wms-cache.path zou de juiste instelling moeten zijn. Polyglot Op 22 oktober 2014 19:51 schreef Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com: Men kan de cache folder wijzigen van TMS, voor WMS vind ik niets, ook niet in de nieuwe JOSM versie van vandaag. Na een remove en install van de nieuwe versie van JOSM in Ubuntu is de cache inhoud niet veranderd. Voor mij is dat geen echt probleem meer, maar dat is wel een probleem als ik iemand aanzet om te mappen met JOSM en dien geen systeembeheerder of kenner is. Groeten Le 22/10/14 18:06, Marc Gemis a écrit : je kan de default locatie blijkbaar wijzigen. Meer info in http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248 Ik herinner me vaag dat Gilbert dit vorig jaar al eens heeft aangehaald. Er was toen ook een ticket geopend bij JOSM dacht ik, maar dus nog zonder succes. -- One can change the default location of the cache, see http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/6248 Wasn't there some discussion about this last year. Didn't somebody open a ticket ? groeten m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Volledig met U eens. Dit gaat in de archieven, en als het er op aan moest komen haal ik het boven, maar dan is de kans groot dat ik al in de kist lig. ;-) Voor nieuwe huizen staat er in GRB alleen maar de voorgevel op, als men die goed bijwerkt zit men al veilig en als men er de zwembaden bij op zet zit men nog beter.:-P Oppassen voor de afritten, die staan er in GRB ook op, en die zet ik nooit in OSM. En de huizen met een hofke die ze groeperen kan men ook makkelijk uit elkaar halen.:-D En mijn straatnamen worden door Bpost gevalideerd. En waar straten beginnen en eindigen zijn er in AGIV GRB ook fouten, of zijn dat de easter eggs ??? Sus Le 22/10/14 19:29, Glenn Plas a écrit : Dat is eerder uw verstand gebruiken, tot nader order is dit nog OK volgens de regering, maar je weet maar nooit wat er zal komen ;-) Als je de locatie 'gemiddeld' positioneert denk ik dat niemand echt kan claimen dat je kopieert. Eigenlijk is het een beetje bullshit, want als OSM nu echt accuraat zou zijn wat een bepaalde building betreft, en AGIV is ook accuraat, dan moeten ze theoretisch toch bijna exact hetzelfde staan. Dit is technisch geen copy. Kan je dat bewijzen? Niet echt. Hoef je dat te bewijzen? Ook niet echt, iemand die klaagt zal het moeten bewijzen dat het een copy is. Daar zijn ook wel truuks voor , oa express fouten maken in geometrie, een fictieve straat maken. Een straatnaam verkeerd spellen easter eggs dus. Dan land je uiteindelijk op de volgende discussie: kwa gps coordinaten, tot welke plaats na de komma is het 'ongeveer' gelijk, en vanaf welke plaats na de komma is het exact een copy? Ik ben er zeker van dat nu reeds, zonder een copy van de huizen uit AGIV er al wel een heel aantal reeds exact hetzelfde moeten staan tov. OSM, gewoon omdat er goed werk geleverd wordt. Wat me wel opvalt is dat de geometrie van een deel van de gebouwen niet overeenkomt met wat ik zie in het echt, maw. Illegaal bijgebouwd ? Onnauwkeurige data? Of Easter Egg op AGIV ? Glenn On 22-10-14 18:44, Verhoeven Fr wrote: Marc, Ik teken een gebouw met als ondergrond de fotomozaïek, daarna neem ik als ondergrond GRB. Komt het ongeveer overeen, wat dikwijls het geval is, ga ik naar het volgende. Is een groot verschil, dan ga ik terug naar de fotomozaïek en verbeter. Daarna neem ik het huisnummer en straatnaam over. Is dat copiëren of bewerken? sus ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM memory eater
On 22-10-14 17:57, Jo wrote: Klopt het dat je het niet echt over (intern) geheugen (RAM) hebt, maar wel over schijfruimte? Je mag al die folders met nummertjes in je JOSM folder regelmatig opruimen. Ik moet daar geregeld 50GB weghalen om weer verder te kunnen werken. Ik ga helemaal akkoord met Sus: zo'n gehannes mag toch niet nodig zijn? Helaas weet ik beroepshalve maar al te goed dat java-applicaties dikwijls memoryvreters zijn - dat hoeft niet noodzakelijk, maar het is toch o zo verleidelijk om maar lekker alles in memory te doen. Python heeft daar ook een handje van weg trouwens, en ik verdenk er perl ook van. Sorry voor het afdwalen... ik blijf lekker rustig ouderwets bij Potlatch. Doet al wat ik nodig heb en (hout vasthoudende) ik heb er nog nooit problemen mee gehad. KA ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM memory eater
Het gaat over schijfruimte. Die item imagery.wms-cache.path vind ik niet terug in advanced settings??? Voor tms staat er wel iets. Als men 1 Terra geheugen heeft is dat geen probleem, maar als men een image maakt wel. Maar het gaat vooral over beginnende mappers. Sus Le 22/10/14 19:57, Jo a écrit : Klopt het dat je het niet echt over (intern) geheugen (RAM) hebt, maar wel over schijfruimte? Je mag al die folders met nummertjes in je JOSM folder regelmatig opruimen. Ik moet daar geregeld 50GB weghalen om weer verder te kunnen werken. F12 vinkje bij Expert mode zetten Advanced Settings Imagery.wms-cache.path zou de juiste instelling moeten zijn. Polyglot Op 22 oktober 2014 19:51 schreef Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com mailto:sus...@gmail.com: Men kan de cache folder wijzigen van TMS, voor WMS vind ik niets, ook niet in de nieuwe JOSM versie van vandaag. Na een remove en install van de nieuwe versie van JOSM in Ubuntu is de cache inhoud niet veranderd. Voor mij is dat geen echt probleem meer, maar dat is wel een probleem als ik iemand aanzet om te mappen met JOSM en dien geen systeembeheerder of kenner is. Groeten ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Sander, ( anderen) ik heb je website daarstraks eens geprobeerd. Jammer genoeg kreeg ik niets anders dan Loading. Niet lang genoeg gewacht ? Server overladen ? Verkeerde browser ? Ik vraag me nu af hoe ik een en ander in mijn workflow kan inpassen. Het overzicht van wat er al in OSM zit is heel handig, maar dan zou het resultaat onmiddellijk zichtbaar moeten zijn. Zou dit kunnen door het script 's nachts te laten lopen en de resultaten te cachen in een DB ? (sorry maar hier komt mijn achtergrond naar boven :-) ). De adrespunten in JOSM overnemen, is handig, maar gaat het mij tijdwinst opleveren (gesteld dat ik nog steeds eerst een survey doe) ? Ik vrees ervoor. Ik heb al eens gewerkt met de osmose site vorig jaar en dat ging niet sneller. Als we de adressen niet op de gebouwen zouden plaatsen zou er wel een snelheidswinst inzitten. Dit is een beetje zoals ze het in Nederland doen. Hoewel je dan in sommige gevallen toch nog het adres op het gebouw moet plaatsen, bv. bij supermarkten waar de POI gegevens op het gebouw gezet worden. Ik had de indruk dat Sus ongeveer hetzelfde schreef. een huisnummer toevoegen in JOSM is 2 kliks (HouseNumberTool plugin CMD-K/CTRL-K of terracer-tool). Hoe zien jullie dat ? Hoe kunnen we het harde werk van Sander het beste gebruiken ? met vriendelijke groeten m 2014-10-22 17:58 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com: Op 22 oktober 2014 17:13 schreef Verhoeven Fr sus...@gmail.com: ... Dit alles om te zeggen dat ik weinig geloof in het via programmatie de CRAB gegevens over te brengen. Dat is wat we allemaal denken. Een automatische import zal nooit mogelijk zijn. We kunnen enkel wat tools ontwikkelen om het mappen van CRAB data eenvoudiger te maken, en om CRAB data met OSM data te vergelijken en zo fouten in de ene of andere database te vinden. Let ook op dat je de GRB kaart wel mag gebruiken om de huisnummers er uit te halen (aangezien dit toch CRAB data is), maar dat je het niet mag gebruiken om de gebouwen over te tekenen (die data is niet vrijgegeven). Aangezien dit een dunne lijn is, raden we meestal aan om de GRB kaart helemaal niet te gebruiken om te mappen. Dat gezegd, mijn eerste versie van de tools is nu ongeveer bruikbaar. - Ga naar http://sanderd17.github.io/import.htm http://sanderd17.github.io/import.html (Dit adres zal natuurlijk veranderen in de toekomst) - Geef je postcode in - Als je de vergelijking met OSM data wil maken, vink dan ook Load OSM data aan (zal wat langer duren om te laden, zeker in een stad) - Klik op Update Dan zal je zien dat een stratenlijst geladen wordt met nummers. Indien er geen vergelijking met OSM wordt gemaakt, zal enkel de eerste kolom met nummers ingevuld worden. Deze pagina kan in de eerste plaats gebruikt worden om te controleren hoe volledig een gemeente (of deelgemeente) is, a.d.h.v. de nummers in de 2de tot 4de kolom. Die tonen resp.: het aantal adressen met een CRAB positie nog niet in OSM, het aantal adressen zonder CRAB positie nog niet in OSM en het aantal adressen in OSM, waarvoor er geen overeenkomstig CRAB adres gevonden is. Daarnaast is iedere straatnaam een link. Klik op de link met JOSM open, en de straat zal geladen worden in JOSM. Klik je op een nummer, dan zal die data ook geladen worden in JOSM, als een aparte layer (de layers kan je toch eenvoudig samenvoegen als je dat wil, splitsen is moeilijker). Let op dat dit enkel werkt met de laatste JOSM release (versie 7643). Zo kan je die CRAB data eenvoudig laden, in JOSM bekijken, en (volledig verwerkt) uploaden naar OSM. Je kan de geladen data ook nog eens vergelijken met de huisnummers in de GRB kaart. De scripts die gebruikt zijn, en de data kan je hier vinden: https://github.com/sanderd17/sanderd17.github.io Ik zou graag hebben dat er nu verschillende mappers het eens uitproberen, en verbeteringen voorstellen om de workflow te verbeteren. Let er ook op dat er geen straten tekort zijn, en geen encodeer problemen meer met speciale letters (é, è, ë, ...), of geen andere problemen. Één mogelijke verbetering is in ieder geval dat de adressen zonder CRAB positie niet over elkaar zouden moeten liggen in JOSM, zoals Thomas al zei. Verder wil ik ook wel kijken om er een optioneel kaartje aan toe te voegen. Als iemand enige design-kwaliteiten heeft, dan mag hij ook altijd een beter design maken. Mensen die willen mogen ook eens hun optimale workflow documenteren, zodat we met z'n allen de beste workflow kunnen zoeken, en die kunnen gebruiken. Als de tools op punt staan, dan kunnen ze gerust ergens anders gehosted worden. Ik nog wat verder doen met het schrijven van verbeteringen en documentatie. Tot later, Sander ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Op 22 oktober 2014 20:57 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com: Sander, ( anderen) ik heb je website daarstraks eens geprobeerd. Jammer genoeg kreeg ik niets anders dan Loading. Niet lang genoeg gewacht ? Server overladen ? Verkeerde browser ? Welke browser? Welke postcode (misschien een grote stad waarbij het niet werkt)? Heb je het net nog geprobeerd (mogelijks moet je de browser cache legen om de verbeterde versie van het JS script opnieuw te downloaden)? Ik vraag me nu af hoe ik een en ander in mijn workflow kan inpassen. Ik ook :D Dat vraagt natuurlijk wat onderzoek en wat denkwerk. Het overzicht van wat er al in OSM zit is heel handig, maar dan zou het resultaat onmiddellijk zichtbaar moeten zijn. Zou dit kunnen door het script 's nachts te laten lopen en de resultaten te cachen in een DB ? (sorry maar hier komt mijn achtergrond naar boven :-) ). Niet met de huidige code. Alles gebeurt client-side, wat maakt dat het (eenmaal de kinderziekten verdwenen zijn) bijna geen onderhoud zal vragen. Als je werkt met een DB, dan moet er altijd server infrastructuur onderhouden worden, waardoor er kostbare mapping tijd verloren gaat. Ik denk ook dat niet in elke gemeente elke dag gemapt zal worden. Dus is het jammer om elke dag alle adressen te downloaden, wanneer er misschien hoogstens in 20 gemeenten per dag a.d.h.v. CRAB data gemapt wordt. Een ander voordeel van live-queries is dat binnen enkele minuten na het uploaden naar OSM je al het resultaat zou moeten zien. Dus kan je eenvoudig straat per straat mappen, zonder dat je er de volgende dag op moet terug komen om te kijken als je geen fouten gemaakt hebt. Normaal is het laden van de data snel genoeg, en ik kan de overpass query nog wat verbeteren om het laden nog sneller te maken (en zal dat zeker doen). De adrespunten in JOSM overnemen, is handig, maar gaat het mij tijdwinst opleveren (gesteld dat ik nog steeds eerst een survey doe) ? Ik vrees ervoor. Ik heb al eens gewerkt met de osmose site vorig jaar en dat ging niet sneller. Als we de adressen niet op de gebouwen zouden plaatsen zou er wel een snelheidswinst inzitten. Dit is een beetje zoals ze het in Nederland doen. Hoewel je dan in sommige gevallen toch nog het adres op het gebouw moet plaatsen, bv. bij supermarkten waar de POI gegevens op het gebouw gezet worden. Ik kan niet meer data aanbieden dan we van AGIV krijgen ;) Ik weet ook niet als het sneller zal gaan, maar ik denk dat met de CRAB data slechts onvolledige surveys zouden nodig zijn. Door een routine te creëren zal je zien waar er problemen kunnen zijn met de CRAB data (zeker al met de punten die geen positie hebben), en specifiek die probleemplaatsen gaan opzoeken. Ik denk, als je begint met een volledige survey, zonder CRAB data, dan kom je thuis, zie je dat er op sommige plaatsen nog onduidelijkheden zijn, en moet je nog eens terug. Deze eerste survey zou kunnen vermeden worden door eerst de duidelijke CRAB data te importeren. Een andere tool die we kunnen gebruiken (weet niet als deze al bestaat), is een tool om probleemplaatsen te markeren. Een soort geografische TODO lijst. Ofwel gedeeld of persoonlijk. Zodat we aan de computer, tijdens de initiële CRAB import, deze probleemplaatsen eenvoudig kunnen markeren en vergeten, om dan later alle plaatsen te gaan bezoeken. Deze tool is moeilijker te maken, omdat het afhangt van de mapping voorkeuren (mappen op papier, met Android, met iPhone, ...). Dus hoop ik dat er al ergens een bruikbaar systeem bestaat dat we gewoon kunnen gebruiken. Ik had de indruk dat Sus ongeveer hetzelfde schreef. een huisnummer toevoegen in JOSM is 2 kliks (HouseNumberTool plugin CMD-K/CTRL-K of terracer-tool). Daarom laat ik het downloaden als extra layer. Dan kan je die (met een aangepast stylesheet) ook als achtergrondlaag gebruiken, en zelf je eigen gegevens ingeven. Na het mappen is de laag eenvoudig te verwijderen. Daarnaast blijft mijn tool nuttig als controle na het mappen. Hoe zien jullie dat ? Hoe kunnen we het harde werk van Sander het beste gebruiken ? met vriendelijke groeten Opmerkingen zijn altijd welkom. Groeten, Sander ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM memory eater
On 2014-10-22 17:58, Verhoeven Fr wrote : Dag allemaal, Wanneer ik bij iemand JOSM aanbeveel voel ik mij verplicht ze te melden dat er een een addertje onder het gras ligt. Het cachegeheugen van JOSM is hier op een PC al uitgelopen in een WinXP tot 20 GB, jaja giga. Wat de basis partitie volledig opgevuld had met gevolg dat Win XP vastliep. Het heeft wel wat geduurd om de schuldige op te sporen. Dat heeft ook nefaste gevolgen wanneer men een image maakt van de basis partitie dat altijd maar blijft aangroeien. Zijt ge van het probleem niet bewust, doe een search op mercator en de meesten zullen verschrikt staan, ook in Ubuntu of een andere Windows is dat zo. Men kan gerust alles wat onder de folder Cache staat verwijderen. JOSM maakt alles terug aan en men merkt er niets van. Ik doe het regelmatig met een batchfile wanneer JOSM uitgeschakeld is. In de berichten zie ik dat er leden zijn die JOSM kunnen patchen, die zouden best een oplossing vinden. ;-) Salut, Lorsque je conseille à quelqu'un d'utiliser JOSM je me sens obligé de l'avertir que le cache de JOSM ne cesse de grandir et va jusqu'à corrompre un système. Sous WinXP j'ai un jour retrouvé un cache gonflé à plus de 20 GB. C'est gênant car les images système ne cessent de grandir. Si vous ignorer le problème, faites une recherche sur mercator et vous m'en direz des nouvelles. Même problème sous Ubuntu ou les autres Windows. On peut sans problèmes mettre à la poubelle tout ce qui se trouve sous le répertoire cache de JOSM avec JOSM à l'arrêt, il refera les répertoires au prochain démarrage. Je le fais régulièrement avec un batchfile. Je vois que certains membres patchent JOSM, ils ont peut-être la solution. ;-) susvhv There used to be these advanced settings when WMS was a plugin: /cache.wmsplugin.expire -1 : this is a time in second until the tiles //are invalidated. -1 means never flush. //cache.wmsplugin.maxsize 9 : maximal size of the cache //(probably in MB)/ But now that WMS is a core feature, they might have been renamed to some imagery.wms.* Try and search. Setting the cache folder to /tmp/* is useless. /tmp is cleaned up when the system reboots and Ubuntu never reboots (even after installs). At least mine ;-) André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Ik heb nu de laatste variant van de website van Sander even snel uitgeprobeerd; een dikke twee uur geleden werkte alles prima, maar het laatste uur krijg ik steeds een 400: bad-request van JOSM terug op het request vanaf het js-script, met daarbij “no command specified” (ongeacht welke van de 4 sets per straat ik gebruik). OSM-data inladen via de straatnaam werkt perfect. Het vergelijk met OSM werkt wel perfect, alleen het inladen in JOSM gaat dus fout. Wissen van de cache heeft geen effect (Firefox 33). Uit een aantal snelle eerste vergelijkingen lijken in mijn regio (Oostende) vrijwel alle adresposities zéér mooi uit te lijnen op het midden van de gebouwen op de AGIV-luchtfoto. Alle reeds gemaakte opmerkingen over afwijkende positionering zal volgens mij vooral gelden voor de meer plattelandsgemeenten. Ik moet het nog even goed bekijken. In elk geval voor de woonwijken in Oostende zou ik de adrespunten zeer vlot kunnen verwerken en als punt importeren, als we het eens zouden zijn dat dat de nu de beste aanpak is. Ik ben het zeker eens met het feit dat de gebouw-contouren hebben veel 'rijker' is voor de kaart dan puur de adrespositie. Toch vind ik dat die adrespositie op zichzelf waarde heeft. Volgens alle richtlijnen van OSM zijn adrespunten, naar mijn idee, zeker de moeite waard, ook al zijn de bijbehorende gebouwen nog niet ingetekend. Dat die gebouwen eigenlijk belangrijker zijn dan de nummers vind ik een terechte opmerking, maar we hebben niet de beschikking over die gegevens. Daarnaast blijf ik bij mijn eerdere standpunt dat alle gebouwen intekenen zeer veel werk is, vrij onnauwkeurig door perspectiefvertekening en schaduwwerking en buitengewoon frustrerend als over een paar maand de GRB-data alsnog open zou worden. Ikzelf zie heel vaak af van het intekenen van gebouwen vanaf de luchtfoto omwille van bovenstaande redenen. In mijn werkomgeving ben ik ook vaak bezig met data-entry in GIS-systemen. Ik vind het zeer frustrerend om zo onnauwkeurig te werken als bij het intekenen van gebouwen vanaf een luchtfoto. Daartegenover moet ik zeggen dat ik de GRB-data in mijn regio volgens mij extreem nauwkeurig is (los van tijdsdiscrepanties). Volgens mij is die data afkomstig van het kadaster. De moderne gegevens zijn met professionele GPS ingemeten, de oudste volgens mij zijn gedigitaliseerd van de analoge kaarten. Kadaster-gegevens hebben een bijzondere 'rechtspositie'. Volgens mij hangen de licentie-problemen daar mee samen. De 'eigendom' van die gegevens is een zeer complexe zaak. De oorspronkelijke data stamt formeel uit het begin van de 19de eeuw en is daarmee auteursrechtenvrij. De oorspronkelijke kaarten (ondermeer uitgegeven door Popp en raadpleegbaar op geopunt.be) zijn op zich auteursrechtenvrij maar de scans zijn dat niet. De huidige kadastrale systemen zijn een directe voortzetting van dat historische systeem. Hoe en wat precies met rechten op de data is buitengewoon complex. Over de workflow: ik vind dat de adrespunten op zichzelf geïmporteerd mogen worden; ook bij afwezigheid van het gebouw. Uiteraard moeten de punten wel handmatig 1 voor 1 gecontroleerd worden met de AGIV-luchtfoto. Een automatische datapomp is een echte no-go, maar daar lijken we het allemaal over eens te zijn. Wanneer de situatie niet duidelijk is, kan nog een beroep gedaan worden op de GRB-gegevens (zonder de contouren over te nemen!) of bij aanhoudende onduidelijkheid kan survey ter plaatse noodzakelijk zijn en/of moet van import van de specifieke punt uiteraard afgezien worden. Wanneer het gebouw aanwezig is (een relatieve zeldzaamheid, heb ik het idee) mogen wat mij betreft de adresgegevens op het gebouw getagd worden en mag het punt verwijderd worden. Dat er dan adressen op gebouwen staan en anderzijds adressen op punten lijkt mij geen probleem. Uit mijn eerste testen besluit ik dat ik met deze werkwijze zeer vlot een regio kan verwerken, zonder onzin-data te importeren. Het aantal “moeilijke gevallen” is in mijn regio zeer beperkt. Dat kan uiteraard per regio verschillen. Over Bing versus AGIV: Bing zal altijd bekender zijn dan AGIV. Hoe eenvoudig het ook wordt om de AGIV-luchtfoto te gebruiken: als 'startende OSM-editende leden' ook voor Bing kunnen kiezen zullen ze dat heel snel doen. Dit als belangrijk punt naar voor schuiven in de 'how-to-get-started'-lijstjes lijkt mij enkel de drempel te verhogen. Het is volgens mij belangrijker om de aandacht te vestigen op de onnauwkeurigheid van luchtofotografie in het algemeen. De misvattingen over schaduwen, perspectief etc. zorgen voor een verkeerde interpretatie van de luchtfoto en bijgevolg het verkeerd aanpassen / corrigeren van wél correct ingevoerde gegevens. Het klopt dat de voetafdruk van een gebouw haast nooit netjes uitlijnt met de dakgoot-contour. Die contour is echter wél heel duidelijk zichtbaar op de luchtfoto. Het is een natuurlijke reflex om een gebouw-contour te tekenen rond die
[OSM-legal-talk] Access Address Register licence mini-revision
CC: talk-is Tryggvi Björgvinsson Greetings legal-talk list. There is an upcoming mini-revision of a user licence for the database called Access Address Register (Icelandic: staðfangaskrá) which is maintained by Registers Iceland. The plan in the long run is to implement a more open government licence which has yet to be finished. In the meantime, there might be cause to patch the current licence. For this process, I would like to gather any comments regarding which parts of the licence could be improved in order for it to conform with OSM's Contributor Terms and/or any ambiguityin that regard. The current licence is located at http://www.skra.is/fasteignaskra/stadfangaskra/user-licence/ Do you have any comments you would like for me to convey? With regards, Svavar Kjarrval signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
2014-10-22 8:53 GMT+02:00 Oleksiy Muzalyev oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch: What if we introduce a rule that one can write a message in English and then, for clarity, the version of the same message in another human language? If there is an original idea, it does not matter much in what language it was formulated. I somehow like this idea, but the written language always has some problems compared to spoken language, as the latter allows for variations to transport additional meaning, relativize or even invert what the literal meaning of the said words is. Also some languages cannot be written. If we were to introduce this rule, I'd suggest to allow audio and video recordings as well. Obviously requiring an English version will still prevent a lot of people from contributing to the process so maybe this should be optional. Im Prinzip eine gute Idee, allerdings ergeben sich aus der Niederschrift von Sprache grundsätzliche Probleme, da die gesprochene Sprache Variationsmöglichkeiten (Intonation, Prosodie, Akzent) bietet, um zusätzliche Bedeutungsebenen zu transportieren, die das wörtlich Gesagte relativieren, in ein anderes Licht setzen und im Extremfall sogar umkehren können. Auch können manche Sprachen gar nicht schriftlich wiedergegeben werden. Sollten wir diese Regelung einführen, so würde ich dafür plädieren, zusätzlich auch Ton und Bildaufnahmen zuzulassen. Allerdings ist prinzipiell die Erfordernis einer englischen Version bereits ein Hindernis, welches viele Menschen von der Teilnahme am Prozess ausschließt, daher könnte das ggf. optional werden. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
On the Wikimedia Foundation web site there is a page with all financial reports: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Financial_reports Where can I find the financial reports of the OpenStreetMap Foundation? Thanks, Micru On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-10-22 8:53 GMT+02:00 Oleksiy Muzalyev oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch: What if we introduce a rule that one can write a message in English and then, for clarity, the version of the same message in another human language? If there is an original idea, it does not matter much in what language it was formulated. I somehow like this idea, but the written language always has some problems compared to spoken language, as the latter allows for variations to transport additional meaning, relativize or even invert what the literal meaning of the said words is. Also some languages cannot be written. If we were to introduce this rule, I'd suggest to allow audio and video recordings as well. Obviously requiring an English version will still prevent a lot of people from contributing to the process so maybe this should be optional. Im Prinzip eine gute Idee, allerdings ergeben sich aus der Niederschrift von Sprache grundsätzliche Probleme, da die gesprochene Sprache Variationsmöglichkeiten (Intonation, Prosodie, Akzent) bietet, um zusätzliche Bedeutungsebenen zu transportieren, die das wörtlich Gesagte relativieren, in ein anderes Licht setzen und im Extremfall sogar umkehren können. Auch können manche Sprachen gar nicht schriftlich wiedergegeben werden. Sollten wir diese Regelung einführen, so würde ich dafür plädieren, zusätzlich auch Ton und Bildaufnahmen zuzulassen. Allerdings ist prinzipiell die Erfordernis einer englischen Version bereits ein Hindernis, welches viele Menschen von der Teilnahme am Prozess ausschließt, daher könnte das ggf. optional werden. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
2014-10-22 11:40 GMT+02:00 David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com: Where can I find the financial reports of the OpenStreetMap Foundation? you can go to the homepage, click on main page: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page then on Finances and you will get some information: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Finances cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] International Map Year
Just stumbled over this: http://internationalmapyear.org Seems to be some UN thing: The International Map Year 2015/16. Maybe some OSM groups want to get involved in some way. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.jochentopf.com/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
Hi Martin, thanks for the link. What about annual plans and community reviews? Where can I see them? Sorry for my ignorance about how to find this information... On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-10-22 11:40 GMT+02:00 David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com: Where can I find the financial reports of the OpenStreetMap Foundation? you can go to the homepage, click on main page: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page then on Finances and you will get some information: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Finances cheers, Martin -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Howto tag a prominent dead tree?
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:26:40AM +, Nicholas G Lawrence wrote: Subject: [OSM-talk] Howto tag a prominent dead tree? Hi, this must have come up before... any ideas? What does prominent mean? in this case local landmark visible on google sat (Bing is clouded in that place) and useful for navigation. Cultural or historical siginficance unknown although it is close to a house ruin of some significance. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] A Better Map
Why are we here on these mailing lists? Why do we spend so much time making maps? I think ultimately because it’s fun. It’s a neat hobby and we’re making the world a slightly better place. You need the right environment for things to be fun. Someone has to install the toys in the playground. Someone needs to pay for the slides and install the swings so that the kids can run around. Then someone else needs to fix them when they fail and make sure you don’t break your neck unexpectedly. In the past I’ve tried hard to make OSM a fun playground, by doing things like taking all the warning labels off and letting people do whatever they like. Things like open tagging or letting anyone edit, which were crazy ideas in 2004. I’ve also at times been responsible for it not being fun. Partly because I was a kid learning the hard way and partly because sometimes you need to make decisions. I agree that in some ways OSM isn’t a fun playground right now. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be again. We had a lot of fun with our swings and our slides. But now there are a lot more people to join the fun from far away places and we’re older. Maybe we now prefer bumper cars and video games to the old swings and slides. We should keep the swings and the slides. People new to the playground will still enjoy them. But we should also build a bumper car arena and maybe a video game arcade. Sometimes we might go back and play on the slide too. We need some new skills to build these new toys. Together, we need a mission and then a couple of course corrections to make it happen. I think addressing should be our mission. We built the worlds best display map already. We won. If you print out any OSM map of practically anywhere, it’s the best. But we can’t find anything on it without comprehensive and global addressing information. It’s the hidden data behind the map we now need to go after. All the other things we need to do are also good things. Diversity in all it’s forms, faster servers, better tools, easier documentation and more. A clear mission provides a framework and guidance for achieving those things. “Map more stuff” got us very, very far. But now, we should focus on what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps. And that is addressing. How would we go achieve that? There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board bandwidth. The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be 3 people. 5 at maximum. Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to also achieve goals. The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff isn’t about deprecating volunteer involvement, it’s about plugging the gaps. It’s not a perfect solution but the alternative is to rely on companies to do many of these things, and that really isn’t perfect either. In terms of the mechanics, 1. Change the mission statement of OSM to be something like “The world’s best addressable map” 2. The board figures out how to voluntarily shrink to 3-5 people, and, meets in person 2-4 times a year 3. Consulting with the community on exact roles and remit, hire 1-3 people [*] Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better, we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed map ever again, and it would be people like you that made it happen. So why don’t we go do that? — A digression. In Peter Thiel’s book “Zero-to-One” he catalogs the fate of HP’s board. HP used to be a very innovative place and then it wasn’t any more. Thiel posits that there were two board factions at a critical time. On the one hand there were people who wanted to chart out things to build and then go build them. On the other hand there was a group who felt the board wasn’t competent to do that, and they should focus on
Re: [OSM-talk] Howto tag a prominent dead tree?
2014-10-22 11:49 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: What does prominent mean? in this case local landmark visible on google sat (Bing is clouded in that place) and useful for navigation. Cultural or historical siginficance unknown although it is close to a house ruin of some significance. I wouldn't focus on the significant aspect (i.e. the tag for a dead tree shouldn't (IMHO) depent on the significance of the tree). You could add a subtag like landmark=yes to denote some significance (this is context dependent, to be a landmark there would either be nothing else in the area, or it should be somehow outstanding). cheers, Martin btw.: this whole discussion should take place in tagging not in talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] International Map Year
On Wednesday 22 October 2014, Jochen Topf wrote: Just stumbled over this: http://internationalmapyear.org Seems to be some UN thing: The International Map Year 2015/16. Maybe some OSM groups want to get involved in some way. This is an ICA (International Cartographic Association) initiative apparently endorsed by the UN. The ICA is an international association of national cartographic societies (in Germany the DGfK) which is mostly focussed on traditional cartography and generally fairly reserved towards crowd sourced geodata and community projects. The book The World of Maps they are promoting on that site contains a chapter on Volunteered Geographic Information: http://internationalmapyear.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/19_Volunteered_Geographic_Information.pdf which is fairly superficial but includes a quite detailed and well illustrated tutorial on contributing to OSM. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
Am 22.10.2014 11:48, schrieb David Cuenca: Hi Martin, thanks for the link. What about annual plans and community reviews? Where can I see them? David, The WMF has a considerable amount of resources available both in funds and in people. It is a very Apples and Oranges comparison, which extends beyond just the relative size or the organisation. You will find essentially none of the WMFs sugar coating in the OSMF. In some of these discussions there seems to be an assumption that we could simply just emulate the WMF and everything would be fine and dandy, however the basic business model and competitive environment is very different and we have some very different trade off's to make. Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Howto tag a prominent dead tree?
Why is landmark redirected to man_made ? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:landmark I would support the landmark suggestion 100% but since a tree isn't man_made Glenn ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Howto tag a prominent dead tree?
On 22 October 2014 10:49, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:26:40AM +, Nicholas G Lawrence wrote: Subject: [OSM-talk] Howto tag a prominent dead tree? What does prominent mean? in this case local landmark Perhaps: natural=tree tree_status=dead OTOH, see: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1436388260 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfin_Oak for an extreme example ;-) -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
btw, there should be a all values in GBP or similar on this page: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Finances/Balance_Sheet_2012 Well I can fix that at least (done) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Howto tag a prominent dead tree?
2014-10-22 12:41 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: natural=tree tree_status=dead if a dead tree is still a tree, then yes. Otherwise I wouldn't use this approach, it is similar to disused, proposed, ruins etc., i.e. the tagging scheme should try to avoid misinterpretations from not checking for modifier keys (generally the idea of modifier keys has been deprecated and alternatives like prefixing disused: instead of using disused=yes are encouraged). tree_status also seems too specific, a more generic tag like status would be better IMHO. OTOH, see: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1436388260 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfin_Oak for an extreme example ;-) I'd tag this as artwork. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Steve Coast st...@asklater.com: Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better, we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed map ever again, and it would be people like you that made it happen. I agree with you that addressing is very important for a lot of commercial (and non-commercial) map users. What I don't understand is how a paid board would help us map more addresses. Unfortunately mapping addresses is typically less fun than going to the video arcade. Looking at the current figures we are not doing too bad. Currently there are 130 Million buildings in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers. I don't know exactly how many buildings there are in the world, and how many of them don't have addresses, but I guess it will be at least 1 Billion addresses in the world, probably more. According to the stats page we have roughly 25.000 active contributors a month ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contributor_Stats ). To get an address on all currently mapped buildings in three years time, (84M to go), every active contributor would have to add 93 addresses a month - constantly. To get 1 Billion addresses mapped by 25.000 contributors in 3 yrs, it would be housenumbers a month per active contributor. Are we planning to pay the mappers as well? The only solution seems to get more contributors mapping, and have them insert addresses. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
It would be nice to know how many of the buildings and house numbers in OSM were imported versus surveyed / drawn by hand. I have a bad feeling about how feasible it is to crowd surf house numbers. regards m On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Steve Coast st...@asklater.com: Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better, we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed map ever again, and it would be people like you that made it happen. I agree with you that addressing is very important for a lot of commercial (and non-commercial) map users. What I don't understand is how a paid board would help us map more addresses. Unfortunately mapping addresses is typically less fun than going to the video arcade. Looking at the current figures we are not doing too bad. Currently there are 130 Million buildings in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers. I don't know exactly how many buildings there are in the world, and how many of them don't have addresses, but I guess it will be at least 1 Billion addresses in the world, probably more. According to the stats page we have roughly 25.000 active contributors a month ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contributor_Stats ). To get an address on all currently mapped buildings in three years time, (84M to go), every active contributor would have to add 93 addresses a month - constantly. To get 1 Billion addresses mapped by 25.000 contributors in 3 yrs, it would be housenumbers a month per active contributor. Are we planning to pay the mappers as well? The only solution seems to get more contributors mapping, and have them insert addresses. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
On 22 October 2014 12:37, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Currently there are 130 Million buildings in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers. Do we know how many of these addresses come from imports? I wouldn't be surprised if over 90% of the housenumbers in OSM come from imports. The Dutch BAG import accounts for 8 million adresses, and the Czech RUIAN import accounts for 3 million addresses. Then there have also been large imports at least in Germany, Poland, and France, but for these countries I can't find exact numbers. -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
2014-10-22 13:37 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: I agree with you that addressing is very important for a lot of commercial (and non-commercial) map users. What I don't understand is how a paid board would help us map more addresses. Martin, Steve said paid staff for a board of volunteers not paid board. To me, this is a very significant difference. This is not to say that I have any magic recipe to solve this problem, I just want to avoid the spread of innacurate citations. :-) I would say that having a common, agreed upon and shared goal is step zero for success and a bright future, though. Cristian p.s.: at the moment my feeling is that we are GNU/Linux more than HP or Apple. The GNU is important, because we are very often talking about licenses. (I am just kidding, in case you are wondering) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:59 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: It would be nice to know how many of the buildings and house numbers in OSM were imported versus surveyed / drawn by hand. I have a bad feeling about how feasible it is to crowd surf house numbers. I think Steve is asking to focus on building a better playground, not inventorying the toys. He is giving a suggestion of reducing the board size and restating the mission. I love to working on addressing, but why not take that to a new thread. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
Steve - would love to work on fixing the license with you so addresses in OSM make sense in the first place. Right now you practically can't use OSM for permanent geocoding. See also: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2014-July/007900.html On Wednesday, October 22, 2014, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: Why are we here on these mailing lists? Why do we spend so much time making maps? I think ultimately because it’s fun. It’s a neat hobby and we’re making the world a slightly better place. You need the right environment for things to be fun. Someone has to install the toys in the playground. Someone needs to pay for the slides and install the swings so that the kids can run around. Then someone else needs to fix them when they fail and make sure you don’t break your neck unexpectedly. In the past I’ve tried hard to make OSM a fun playground, by doing things like taking all the warning labels off and letting people do whatever they like. Things like open tagging or letting anyone edit, which were crazy ideas in 2004. I’ve also at times been responsible for it not being fun. Partly because I was a kid learning the hard way and partly because sometimes you need to make decisions. I agree that in some ways OSM isn’t a fun playground right now. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be again. We had a lot of fun with our swings and our slides. But now there are a lot more people to join the fun from far away places and we’re older. Maybe we now prefer bumper cars and video games to the old swings and slides. We should keep the swings and the slides. People new to the playground will still enjoy them. But we should also build a bumper car arena and maybe a video game arcade. Sometimes we might go back and play on the slide too. We need some new skills to build these new toys. Together, we need a mission and then a couple of course corrections to make it happen. I think addressing should be our mission. We built the worlds best display map already. We won. If you print out any OSM map of practically anywhere, it’s the best. But we can’t find anything on it without comprehensive and global addressing information. It’s the hidden data behind the map we now need to go after. All the other things we need to do are also good things. Diversity in all it’s forms, faster servers, better tools, easier documentation and more. A clear mission provides a framework and guidance for achieving those things. “Map more stuff” got us very, very far. But now, we should focus on what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps. And that is addressing. How would we go achieve that? There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board bandwidth. The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be 3 people. 5 at maximum. Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to also achieve goals. The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff isn’t about deprecating volunteer involvement, it’s about plugging the gaps. It’s not a perfect solution but the alternative is to rely on companies to do many of these things, and that really isn’t perfect either. In terms of the mechanics, 1. Change the mission statement of OSM to be something like “The world’s best addressable map” 2. The board figures out how to voluntarily shrink to 3-5 people, and, meets in person 2-4 times a year 3. Consulting with the community on exact roles and remit, hire 1-3 people [*] Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better, we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed map ever again, and it would be people like you that made it happen. So why don’t we go do that? — A digression. In Peter Thiel’s book “Zero-to-One” he catalogs the fate of
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
Simon, I was not asking to emulate the WMF, I was asking because I am not familiar with the internal procedures of the OSMF. But yes, after checking the numbers both organizations are not comparable, at all. From this thread it seemed that there were serious issues, but seeing all what has been accomplished with such a tight budget, it is quite a feat. Thanks, On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Am 22.10.2014 11:48, schrieb David Cuenca: Hi Martin, thanks for the link. What about annual plans and community reviews? Where can I see them? David, The WMF has a considerable amount of resources available both in funds and in people. It is a very Apples and Oranges comparison, which extends beyond just the relative size or the organisation. You will find essentially none of the WMFs sugar coating in the OSMF. In some of these discussions there seems to be an assumption that we could simply just emulate the WMF and everything would be fine and dandy, however the basic business model and competitive environment is very different and we have some very different trade off's to make. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Modus operandi of the board
On Wednesday 22 October 2014, Kate Chapman wrote: One issue is we really have no idea what the OSMF membership wants. We know what some vocal people who write English well want. [...] This is certainly something that would be much easier if there was more transparency on the work of the OSMF bodies. As already widely mentioned the minutes are the only public documentation and as such extrememely sparse but beyond that they are published without the possibility to comment and ask questions. IMO the only way the OSM community can interpret that is that input on the topics mentioned there by ordinary community members is not wanted. I cannot really form a qualified opinion from the outside of course but to me the whole subject of transparency supports the impression Richard communicated that the OSMF board is inherently broken. At least three current members of the board have expressed the opinion here that transparency is a major issue but yet improvements during the past year on this matter are marginal at best, at least from what is publicly visible. To give a specific example how the current scarcity of public documentation of the work looks like: At the beginning of the year the lack of attribution in uses of OSM data was subject in the board minutes and various decisions were made: http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_Minutes_2014-01-14 There is no follow-up on this subject in any of the later meetings this year according to the minutes. There is mentioning in the LWG minutes from https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uemhXWKwbu3RNjAWcG0R-nEFaN1FHjZl1McFwjXkNSc/pub The board has asked the LWG to follow up on the issue of insufficient attribution by larger OSM based service providers. And then in the most recent minutes from the mangement team https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IiWYD3uwt8HJH-J6DKDRQfLtWa-P5-2OSXXyRCLvD-Y/pub there is: No substantive action on being more aggressive on making sure that folks attribute us, (board request). This is just an example - there are a lot of other similar case - but this seems particularly useful since it is an issue of potential interest to all OSM mappers and not just OSMF members. Apart from the ambiguities and contradictions in what is written the impression you get here from the outside without having been in any of the meeting is that a topic has been discussed in at least three bodies of the OSMF (board, MT and LWG) with essentially no results beyond the initial statement. Now i don't want to say everybody has been lazy or unproductive, esp. not the LWG who have done some great work on the community guidelines recently but the minutes certainly fail to meet their purpose as comprehensive documentation of the work of the OSMF bodies. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
Our community has been succesful in developping quite a fantastic project. Not only an online map like Google, but also on paper, GPS, smartphones. For the various Navigation tools and Search facilities to be efficient, we need adresses surely. But the first informations we need to structure the map are street names and administrative limits to have the capacity to find a street within a city / region. That is surely one of our missions to progress with this. And I would like that we discuss on how we can better progress with this. Could this be a mission of some of the Working groups to assure that this will be done with a collaborative approach? Pierre De : Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com À : Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Cc : osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org; talk@openstreetmap.org Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Mercredi 22 octobre 2014 8h31 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] A Better Map Steve - would love to work on fixing the license with you so addresses in OSM make sense in the first place. Right now you practically can't use OSM for permanent geocoding. See also: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2014-July/007900.html On Wednesday, October 22, 2014, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: Why are we here on these mailing lists? Why do we spend so much time making maps? I think ultimately because it’s fun. It’s a neat hobby and we’re making the world a slightly better place. You need the right environment for things to be fun. Someone has to install the toys in the playground. Someone needs to pay for the slides and install the swings so that the kids can run around. Then someone else needs to fix them when they fail and make sure you don’t break your neck unexpectedly. In the past I’ve tried hard to make OSM a fun playground, by doing things like taking all the warning labels off and letting people do whatever they like. Things like open tagging or letting anyone edit, which were crazy ideas in 2004. I’ve also at times been responsible for it not being fun. Partly because I was a kid learning the hard way and partly because sometimes you need to make decisions. I agree that in some ways OSM isn’t a fun playground right now. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be again. We had a lot of fun with our swings and our slides. But now there are a lot more people to join the fun from far away places and we’re older. Maybe we now prefer bumper cars and video games to the old swings and slides. We should keep the swings and the slides. People new to the playground will still enjoy them. But we should also build a bumper car arena and maybe a video game arcade. Sometimes we might go back and play on the slide too. We need some new skills to build these new toys. Together, we need a mission and then a couple of course corrections to make it happen. I think addressing should be our mission. We built the worlds best display map already. We won. If you print out any OSM map of practically anywhere, it’s the best. But we can’t find anything on it without comprehensive and global addressing information. It’s the hidden data behind the map we now need to go after. All the other things we need to do are also good things. Diversity in all it’s forms, faster servers, better tools, easier documentation and more. A clear mission provides a framework and guidance for achieving those things. “Map more stuff” got us very, very far. But now, we should focus on what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps. And that is addressing. How would we go achieve that? There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board bandwidth. The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be 3 people. 5 at maximum. Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to also achieve goals. The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Alex, the LWG would love to work with you on fixing any confusing if you're interested in resuming work on the guideline - currently it lies abandoned with the feedback needing to be integrated. On Oct 22, 2014, at 05:33 AM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Steve - would love to work on fixing the license with you so addresses in OSM make sense in the first place. Right now you practically can't use OSM for permanent geocoding. See also: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2014-July/007900.html On Wednesday, October 22, 2014, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: Why are we here on these mailing lists? Why do we spend so much time making maps? I think ultimately because it’s fun. It’s a neat hobby and we’re making the world a slightly better place. You need the right environment for things to be fun. Someone has to install the toys in the playground. Someone needs to pay for the slides and install the swings so that the kids can run around. Then someone else needs to fix them when they fail and make sure you don’t break your neck unexpectedly. In the past I’ve tried hard to make OSM a fun playground, by doing things like taking all the warning labels off and letting people do whatever they like. Things like open tagging or letting anyone edit, which were crazy ideas in 2004. I’ve also at times been responsible for it not being fun. Partly because I was a kid learning the hard way and partly because sometimes you need to make decisions. I agree that in some ways OSM isn’t a fun playground right now. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be again. We had a lot of fun with our swings and our slides. But now there are a lot more people to join the fun from far away places and we’re older. Maybe we now prefer bumper cars and video games to the old swings and slides. We should keep the swings and the slides. People new to the playground will still enjoy them. But we should also build a bumper car arena and maybe a video game arcade. Sometimes we might go back and play on the slide too. We need some new skills to build these new toys. Together, we need a mission and then a couple of course corrections to make it happen. I think addressing should be our mission. We built the worlds best display map already. We won. If you print out any OSM map of practically anywhere, it’s the best. But we can’t find anything on it without comprehensive and global addressing information. It’s the hidden data behind the map we now need to go after. All the other things we need to do are also good things. Diversity in all it’s forms, faster servers, better tools, easier documentation and more. A clear mission provides a framework and guidance for achieving those things. “Map more stuff” got us very, very far. But now, we should focus on what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps. And that is addressing. How would we go achieve that? There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board bandwidth. The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be 3 people. 5 at maximum. Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to also achieve goals. The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff isn’t about deprecating volunteer involvement, it’s about plugging the gaps. It’s not a perfect solution but the alternative is to rely on companies to do many of these things, and that really isn’t perfect either. In terms of the mechanics, 1. Change the mission statement of OSM to be something like “The world’s best addressable map” 2. The board figures out how to voluntarily shrink to 3-5 people, and, meets in person 2-4 times a year 3. Consulting with the community on exact roles and remit, hire 1-3 people [*] Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better, we would
Re: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 02:00:34PM +, Paul Norman wrote: On Wednesday, October 22, 2014, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: Why are we here on these mailing lists? Why do we spend so much time making maps? I think ultimately because it’s fun. Just a data point: _I_'m here because I need a free map. of course, I'm not going to deny that it's fun or that many people are here because it's fun or that having fun is great. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: But the first informations we need to structure the map are street names and administrative limits to have the capacity to find a street within a city / region. It would be amazing to have structured information entities, however I am not sure if this idea is wished by OSM'ers as the benefits are not clear to many yet. Cheers, Micru ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] The world’s best addressable map
Steve Coast suggested changing the mission statement of OSM to be something like “The world’s best addressable map” I thought I'd separate out this into a new thread. As some backup, I attended my first SOTM-US in 2012 where Steve proposed we build an addressable map. A group of us from Seattle decided that we'd take that challenge and import addresses for Seattle. That import was completed. Here are the address related comments: On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:37 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Steve Coast st...@asklater.com: Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better, we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed map ever again, and it would be people like you that made it happen. I agree with you that addressing is very important for a lot of commercial (and non-commercial) map users. What I don't understand is how a paid board would help us map more addresses. Unfortunately mapping addresses is typically less fun than going to the video arcade. Looking at the current figures we are not doing too bad. Currently there are 130 Million buildings in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers. I don't know exactly how many buildings there are in the world, and how many of them don't have addresses, but I guess it will be at least 1 Billion addresses in the world, probably more. According to the stats page we have roughly 25.000 active contributors a month ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contributor_Stats ). To get an address on all currently mapped buildings in three years time, (84M to go), every active contributor would have to add 93 addresses a month - constantly. To get 1 Billion addresses mapped by 25.000 contributors in 3 yrs, it would be housenumbers a month per active contributor. Are we planning to pay the mappers as well? The only solution seems to get more contributors mapping, and have them insert addresses. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:59 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: It would be nice to know how many of the buildings and house numbers in OSM were imported versus surveyed / drawn by hand. I have a bad feeling about how feasible it is to crowd surf house numbers. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:04 AM, Oleksiy Muzalyev oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch wrote: It is not necessary to put down a number on each building. It is possible to use *addr:interpolation* (*odd, even*, or *all*). We put down a number on the first building, then on the last, connect them in JOSM, and add *addr:interpolation: all *. For example here: http://osm.org/go/0CFn0AZ_d--?m= . It is also very useful on a street with many small houses. And it is searchable. For example if there is number 15 and number 27 on the map for a street, and they are connected with *addr:interpolation: odd, *and if one searches number 21, the map will show the number 21 all right. Then, there is another approach. We first map addressable large building, where a lot of people live or work. Kind of of going after the low-hanging fruit. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:06 AM, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: On 22 October 2014 12:37, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Currently there are 130 Million buildings in OSM and 46 Million housenumbers. Do we know how many of these addresses come from imports? I wouldn't be surprised if over 90% of the housenumbers in OSM come from imports. The Dutch BAG import accounts for 8 million adresses, and the Czech RUIAN import accounts for 3 million addresses. Then there have also been large imports at least in Germany, Poland, and France, but for these countries I can't find exact numbers. -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Hi Steve, Thanks for your thoughts, I have a few questions/comments inline. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:15 AM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board bandwidth. The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be 3 people. 5 at maximum. I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF membership isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors (I frequently have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board elections) are not necessarily the best to be on a board. It does not allow the flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For example most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or legal matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is not a bad thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way. Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to also achieve goals. I completely agree regarding meeting in person and having a facilitator. Would help lead to a more productive board. It is certainly impossible to please everybody all the time, facilitators I've worked with in other groups at least give the opportunity for more voices to be heard. The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff isn’t about deprecating volunteer involvement, it’s about plugging the gaps. It’s not a perfect solution but the alternative is to rely on companies to do many of these things, and that really isn’t perfect either. Yes, I think that paid staff can certainly help with some of the tasks. Financing this is a different issue however. I used to work as paid staff on an animal shelter for abused/neglected horses that had many volunteers while attending uni. When there was 2 feet of snow in the middle of January it was the paid staff usually out feeding the animals and shoveling the manure. Volunteers were great for the fun tasks such as giving tours, grooming horses and giving pony rides at fundraisers. We need to seriously look at what the OSM equivalent is of shoveling manure and if it is appropriate hire people to do it. In terms of the mechanics, 1. Change the mission statement of OSM to be something like “The world’s best addressable map” While I think addresses are important, I'm not sure this is really a rallying cry. Having tools that make it easier to import addresses and collect them will certainly assist with the usability of the map. 2. The board figures out how to voluntarily shrink to 3-5 people, and, meets in person 2-4 times a year 3. Consulting with the community on exact roles and remit, hire 1-3 people [*] This consultation process is important and I don't think one the community can do on our own. There are plenty of groups that could assist, some of which I've worked with directly before in other groups. Regarding your [*] regarding funding I completely agree. If anything the OSMF has turned away funding over the years, maybe not in as direct a way as someone trying to hand them a check (though I could see that might have happened) but communities with less impact on the world receive way more funding easily than the OSMF currently does. I do think at some point it would be good to speak at length about funding often when discussing funding I feel there is not much knowledge about the different ways that could be approached. Seeking funding for a project such as OSM is not a new thing and there are many other groups we could learn from. There are people that are willing to help if we simply asked. Best, -Kate Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better, we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody would use a closed map ever again,
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Hi Kate, Replies in-line. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF membership isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors (I frequently have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board elections) are not necessarily the best to be on a board. It does not allow the flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For example most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or legal matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is not a bad thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way. I think you're connecting board membership with officer positions and that doesn't need to be connected. It's possible (and often preferable) to have a board of people who oversee the officers but are not one of them. That also gives you flexibility because your board can say We will nominate so-and-so to be CEO and so-and-so to be CFO, rather than using terms like President and Treasurer. It also means the board positions can be equal, if the board so chooses. I think that this argument of separation of concerns makes a lot of sense, I think that board members should be members, but officers may not need to be. Yes, I think that paid staff can certainly help with some of the tasks. Financing this is a different issue however. I used to work as paid staff on an animal shelter for abused/neglected horses that had many volunteers while attending uni. When there was 2 feet of snow in the middle of January it was the paid staff usually out feeding the animals and shoveling the manure. Volunteers were great for the fun tasks such as giving tours, grooming horses and giving pony rides at fundraisers. We need to seriously look at what the OSM equivalent is of shoveling manure and if it is appropriate hire people to do it. Yes, and adding on, some recognition would also be nice, even for volunteers. Last month I received an extremely nasty, rude email from someone about actions that I took as part of my DWG duties. That email insulted me, attacked my sexuality, was vaguely threatening to my fiancee, etc. and the board was CCed by the original author. None of the board members or members of management team (who was also CCed) said a word about it. This kind of dismissal for our feelings as individuals as we put work into the project is really disheartening. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
I want to actually apologize for one mis-statement. Michael Collinson from the MT actually was very good about this and one-on-one, board members who I speak with have been kind/supportive, I want to also point out that this is not about me getting recognition for my work on OSM, but about the general lack of support that the volunteers can get from the board, when just a pat on the back would be nice. The board is under incredible stress and strain, and they're volunteers like the rest of us, but there's a ton of work being done by groups like the Operations Team, the License Working Group, the Management Team, the Communications Working Group, the Data Working Group, etc. All of these folks deserve more support and recognition. - Serge On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Kate, Replies in-line. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF membership isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors (I frequently have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board elections) are not necessarily the best to be on a board. It does not allow the flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For example most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or legal matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is not a bad thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way. I think you're connecting board membership with officer positions and that doesn't need to be connected. It's possible (and often preferable) to have a board of people who oversee the officers but are not one of them. That also gives you flexibility because your board can say We will nominate so-and-so to be CEO and so-and-so to be CFO, rather than using terms like President and Treasurer. It also means the board positions can be equal, if the board so chooses. I think that this argument of separation of concerns makes a lot of sense, I think that board members should be members, but officers may not need to be. Yes, I think that paid staff can certainly help with some of the tasks. Financing this is a different issue however. I used to work as paid staff on an animal shelter for abused/neglected horses that had many volunteers while attending uni. When there was 2 feet of snow in the middle of January it was the paid staff usually out feeding the animals and shoveling the manure. Volunteers were great for the fun tasks such as giving tours, grooming horses and giving pony rides at fundraisers. We need to seriously look at what the OSM equivalent is of shoveling manure and if it is appropriate hire people to do it. Yes, and adding on, some recognition would also be nice, even for volunteers. Last month I received an extremely nasty, rude email from someone about actions that I took as part of my DWG duties. That email insulted me, attacked my sexuality, was vaguely threatening to my fiancee, etc. and the board was CCed by the original author. None of the board members or members of management team (who was also CCed) said a word about it. This kind of dismissal for our feelings as individuals as we put work into the project is really disheartening. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Serge I want to apologize in case you missed explicit support from me (and the board), it was likely just a miscommunication given that the person in question lambasted essentially everybody that he had ever had contact with and you in discussion suggested that we simply ignore him. Simon Am 22.10.2014 22:54, schrieb Serge Wroclawski: I want to actually apologize for one mis-statement. Michael Collinson from the MT actually was very good about this and one-on-one, board members who I speak with have been kind/supportive, I want to also point out that this is not about me getting recognition for my work on OSM, but about the general lack of support that the volunteers can get from the board, when just a pat on the back would be nice. The board is under incredible stress and strain, and they're volunteers like the rest of us, but there's a ton of work being done by groups like the Operations Team, the License Working Group, the Management Team, the Communications Working Group, the Data Working Group, etc. All of these folks deserve more support and recognition. - Serge On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Kate, Replies in-line. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF membership isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors (I frequently have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board elections) are not necessarily the best to be on a board. It does not allow the flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For example most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or legal matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is not a bad thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way. I think you're connecting board membership with officer positions and that doesn't need to be connected. It's possible (and often preferable) to have a board of people who oversee the officers but are not one of them. That also gives you flexibility because your board can say We will nominate so-and-so to be CEO and so-and-so to be CFO, rather than using terms like President and Treasurer. It also means the board positions can be equal, if the board so chooses. I think that this argument of separation of concerns makes a lot of sense, I think that board members should be members, but officers may not need to be. Yes, I think that paid staff can certainly help with some of the tasks. Financing this is a different issue however. I used to work as paid staff on an animal shelter for abused/neglected horses that had many volunteers while attending uni. When there was 2 feet of snow in the middle of January it was the paid staff usually out feeding the animals and shoveling the manure. Volunteers were great for the fun tasks such as giving tours, grooming horses and giving pony rides at fundraisers. We need to seriously look at what the OSM equivalent is of shoveling manure and if it is appropriate hire people to do it. Yes, and adding on, some recognition would also be nice, even for volunteers. Last month I received an extremely nasty, rude email from someone about actions that I took as part of my DWG duties. That email insulted me, attacked my sexuality, was vaguely threatening to my fiancee, etc. and the board was CCed by the original author. None of the board members or members of management team (who was also CCed) said a word about it. This kind of dismissal for our feelings as individuals as we put work into the project is really disheartening. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Simon, Thanks for that. I want to make it clear that my frustration is not based on any one incident, but rather that I just wish the board did more to recognize the hard work of the dozens of individuals who volunteer hours of their time to this project in so many ways. I feel that the working groups often get short shrift. The board gets a lot of attention (positive and negative) but it's the working groups (and a special and emphatic emphasis on the work of Operations Team) that make OSM possible. The DWG gets a lot of abuse thrown at us, and I think something in Kate's email really spoke to that idea of fun. I've never considered the work I do for the DWG to be fun. I find it stressful and frustrating. Sometimes I find it sad, but never fun. We may need a staff to do certain jobs, but whether we do decide to hire a staff or not, it'd be great if the volunteers we do have now got a bit more recognition for their hard work. - Serge On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Serge I want to apologize in case you missed explicit support from me (and the board), it was likely just a miscommunication given that the person in question lambasted essentially everybody that he had ever had contact with and you in discussion suggested that we simply ignore him. Simon Am 22.10.2014 22:54, schrieb Serge Wroclawski: I want to actually apologize for one mis-statement. Michael Collinson from the MT actually was very good about this and one-on-one, board members who I speak with have been kind/supportive, I want to also point out that this is not about me getting recognition for my work on OSM, but about the general lack of support that the volunteers can get from the board, when just a pat on the back would be nice. The board is under incredible stress and strain, and they're volunteers like the rest of us, but there's a ton of work being done by groups like the Operations Team, the License Working Group, the Management Team, the Communications Working Group, the Data Working Group, etc. All of these folks deserve more support and recognition. - Serge On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Kate, Replies in-line. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF membership isn't the best approach. Those elected from OSM contributors (I frequently have seen in the past people post people's OSM edits for board elections) are not necessarily the best to be on a board. It does not allow the flexibility to seek out board members with specialized skills. For example most of the board would not claim to be experts in finance, or legal matters. I certainly think election from part of the community is not a bad thing, but perhaps it isn't the only way. I think you're connecting board membership with officer positions and that doesn't need to be connected. It's possible (and often preferable) to have a board of people who oversee the officers but are not one of them. That also gives you flexibility because your board can say We will nominate so-and-so to be CEO and so-and-so to be CFO, rather than using terms like President and Treasurer. It also means the board positions can be equal, if the board so chooses. I think that this argument of separation of concerns makes a lot of sense, I think that board members should be members, but officers may not need to be. Yes, I think that paid staff can certainly help with some of the tasks. Financing this is a different issue however. I used to work as paid staff on an animal shelter for abused/neglected horses that had many volunteers while attending uni. When there was 2 feet of snow in the middle of January it was the paid staff usually out feeding the animals and shoveling the manure. Volunteers were great for the fun tasks such as giving tours, grooming horses and giving pony rides at fundraisers. We need to seriously look at what the OSM equivalent is of shoveling manure and if it is appropriate hire people to do it. Yes, and adding on, some recognition would also be nice, even for volunteers. Last month I received an extremely nasty, rude email from someone about actions that I took as part of my DWG duties. That email insulted me, attacked my sexuality, was vaguely threatening to my fiancee, etc. and the board was CCed by the original author. None of the board members or members of management team (who was also CCed) said a word about it. This kind of dismissal for our feelings as individuals as we put work into the project is really disheartening. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list
[OSM-talk] SotM 2014 program and AGM
Hi all, The program for SotM 2014 is now available. This includes the date and time of the Annual General Meeting of the OSM Foundation. SotM: http://stateofthemap.org/program AGM: http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meetings/14 I'd like to thank everyone involved in pulling this years program together, including all who submitted a talk for consideration, the evaluation team, and the local sotm team for putting the final program together (it's no small task to try to put talks of a similar theme together within the limits of time and available rooms). Best, Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Applications to the Local Chapter Agreement
Simon, I note in [1] that there are now three applications to the Local Chapter Agreement [2] and these are being processed now. In light of the current discussions on transparency and holding the board to account, can I ask whether it possible to disclose these just in case there are any other local groups that feel they represent the geographic regions included in the first three applications. Also I'm curious :-) Best, Rob [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-October/002697.html [2] http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_OSMF_Chapters ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Am 22.10.2014 23:38, schrieb Kate Chapman: ... I was not suggested the entire board would be non-affiliated. There are different approaches to this and you can look at other organizations with mixed boards. Checks and balances are possible, especially with a membership. Just to clarify. My reference to non-affiliated was as in: not working for a company or organisation with a direct financial or other interest in OSM, or in other words the a prototypical OSM contributor. Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] A Better strikeMap\strike community
Kate Chapman wrote: What would you like the board to do to recognize the work of the volunteers? Hi Kate, Personally I don't want a pat on the back, but I would like to more prominently see the OSMF board actively supporting the community. For example, In my view we are long overdue some work to the community portals of OSM. We've had iD and the redesign of the main website, but communication channels have seen little attention recently and in my opinion are not supporting a healthy community. Earlier today I read the scope of the CWG [1]. I quote: The group will do some analysis of the different channels, and areas where problems can be seen, e.g. signal-to-noise ratio of community discussions, and possibly develop some ideas for making improvements. I would like to pick this up and push it forward bringing in aspects such as diversity, a code of conduct, some way to tackle the increasing levels of spam on the OSM Diary feature and making community discussion a more prominent feature accessible via the front page. However I am only willing to do this if I can see that my effort has a chance of actually going somewhere. This means that if we were to identify some requirements such as a need for funding to build something, or getting a change to the main website, or (shock-horror) sending a single email to all registered members asking them if they'd like to join a email subscription, I would at least be heard by the board. Right now I'm not sure I would. (In regards to that last one I know I wouldn't be supported because I've raised it before and got nowhere. And getting a sotm banner on osm.org can be an uphill battle too!) Regards, Rob [1] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Communication_Working_Group ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Applications to the Local Chapter Agreement
Hi Rob I had the feeling that I had announced something outside of the board, but that may simply be a figment of my imagination. Applications have been received from Iceland, Italy and Japan. All three have the honor and the pain of having to beta test the procedure, mainly providing us with some additional documentation. I'm sure translating the respective articles is the main issue, but I can't see how minimal due diligence can be avoided without creating a liability nightmare. There are further organisations that have indicated their willingness to join us and I would expect a few more applications in the next couple of months. Simon Am 22.10.2014 23:41, schrieb Rob Nickerson: Simon, I note in [1] that there are now three applications to the Local Chapter Agreement [2] and these are being processed now. In light of the current discussions on transparency and holding the board to account, can I ask whether it possible to disclose these just in case there are any other local groups that feel they represent the geographic regions included in the first three applications. Also I'm curious :-) Best, Rob [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-October/002697.html [2] http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_OSMF_Chapters ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A Better strikeMap\strike community
Am 23.10.2014 00:42, schrieb Rob Nickerson: However I am only willing to do this if I can see that my effort has a chance of actually going somewhere. This means that if we were to identify some requirements such as a need for funding to build something, or getting a change to the main website, Rob, this is obviously not well known, so I'll just restate it again. in every budget process I've been involved in the OSMF up to now, the board has literally begged (via the MT) for budgets from the working groups and projects to be supported. That has with the exception of the OWG (capex for hardware) and the LWG (trademark registrations) not resulted in any echo at all (the LWG doesn't even really count). No guarantees that everything will be approved by the MT and board,, but if you don't ask you are going to get exactly 0. Not quite true btw :-) we have in the past tried allocating at least small budgets regardless of what the WGs have asked for, didn't work, the funds were never used. . or (shock-horror) sending a single email to all registered members asking them if they'd like to join a email subscription, I would at least be heard by the board. Right now I'm not sure I would. (In regards to that last one I know I wouldn't be supported because I've raised it before and got nowhere. And getting a sotm banner on osm.org http://osm.org can be an uphill battle too!) Very touchy issue, there are just a lot of legal and cultural issues involved. I wouldn't take reservations about doing it with mail as a no to the idea of more communications to users, just experience turning on blinking red lights. My personal preference would be to implement the News sidebar/drop down as originally intended in the redesign of the website. 2nd choice some kind of opt in on sign up system for information mails, won't work well retroactively and you will find whole countries not ticking such a box. I'm sure there are more ideas that might work better. Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Kate, That's a great question. I recently joined the CWG, so maybe its my job now to fix this, but I feel like generally there's a deep seated communication problem in OSM. On one hand you have the vast majority of mappers who don't know what the OSMF is, or if they do, probably aren't members. Then we have the OSM community who sticks around and is participatory. Sadly if you look at the current candidates for the board, most of them have never even been in a working group. I think the one exception may actually be Frederik, who is currently serving on the board. It illustrates a series of serious problems (perhaps I should expand on that on another thread). As for what the OSMF can do... generally be more communicative and supportive with the people that keep the project going. As Simon points out, there's a budge proposal period, but I think that the OSMF could be doing more analysis with the WG's. Sometimes it's not clear when you're in the middle of something that it could be solved with money (vs time/effort). I just think that the discussion regarding the OSMF, and paid staff especially, ignores the fact that a great deal of work is done today by people who are happy to do it (as I am) but feel that the board could hilight this work, get more volunteers involved, and encourage those who want to lead to be participatory in the organization. - Serge On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: Hi Serge, What would you like the board to do to recognize the work of the volunteers? Within HOT for example we've learned culturally people don't necessarily even want the same type of recognition. I'm sorry I should have sent you a message regarding the tirade, it was not empathic of me. I honestly only read the first paragraph and then ignored it as I thought I was supposed to do. From a human perspective however I should have talked you. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Simon, The DWG gets a lot of abuse thrown at us, and I think something in Kate's email really spoke to that idea of fun. I've never considered the work I do for the DWG to be fun. I find it stressful and frustrating. Sometimes I find it sad, but never fun. I think within volunteering there are a couple different aspects that cause people to help. Fun is only one variable. If a job is really important for an organization such as the DWG for example people will do it because it is necessary, not because it is fun. In my example of working on a farm, there were volunteers who would come do very not fun jobs because they knew they were needed. There were also jobs that it was extremely hard to get people to help. We may need a staff to do certain jobs, but whether we do decide to hire a staff or not, it'd be great if the volunteers we do have now got a bit more recognition for their hard work. As I stated before I'm a bit unsure how to respond to this. I suppose one thing we can say now is everyone is a volunteer and not getting any recognition! Anyway, what I mean by that is I'm unsure exactly what people want. I appreciate the working groups and the jobs that people do that I would never have the patience to do. The fact that the servers run, we don't get shutdown because of data licensing and all out edit wars don't destroy the map is a testament to everyone that spends hours volunteering. -Kate - Serge On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Serge I want to apologize in case you missed explicit support from me (and the board), it was likely just a miscommunication given that the person in question lambasted essentially everybody that he had ever had contact with and you in discussion suggested that we simply ignore him. Simon Am 22.10.2014 22:54, schrieb Serge Wroclawski: I want to actually apologize for one mis-statement. Michael Collinson from the MT actually was very good about this and one-on-one, board members who I speak with have been kind/supportive, I want to also point out that this is not about me getting recognition for my work on OSM, but about the general lack of support that the volunteers can get from the board, when just a pat on the back would be nice. The board is under incredible stress and strain, and they're volunteers like the rest of us, but there's a ton of work being done by groups like the Operations Team, the License Working Group, the Management Team, the Communications Working Group, the Data Working Group, etc. All of these folks deserve more support and recognition. - Serge On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Kate, Replies in-line. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: I'd say the size of the board to me is not necessarily the issue. I do think however having a board elected completely just from the OSMF
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Maps for townland plotting
Uploaded: http://mapwarper.net/maps/4820 Good Luck! D On 22 October 2014 16:52, Mark Tully markjtu...@gmail.com wrote: Could I please request 20/21 NW Thanks, Mark On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Donal Diamond donal.diam...@gmail.com wrote: IRL-GSGS-3906-26-21-NE-Clane.tif uploaded http://mapwarper.net/maps/4800 D On 20 October 2014 16:45, John Kennedy jkenned...@gmail.com wrote: Impressive work. I would like to request 26/21 NE Thx, - John On 19 October 2014 21:42, Patrick Matthews mullinalag...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Donal On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Donal Diamond donal.diam...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 October 2014 16:47, Patrick Matthews mullinalag...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to request 20-27-NW, 20-27-SW, 20-27-SE, 23-27-SW. Done: http://mapwarper.net/maps?field=titlequery=IRL-GSGS-3906-20-27show_warped=0 http://mapwarper.net/maps?field=titlequery=IRL-GSGS-3906-23-27show_warped=0 Donal ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
[Talk-br] Reunião semanal OSM Brasil
Caros, O Gotomeeting é uma ferramenta mais estável e fácil de usar. Me emprestaram uma licença para fazer nossa reunião de hoje. A aplicação mobile Gotomeeting funciona muito bem. É só baixar o app e inserir o ID do meeting: 834-747-365 1. Please join my meeting. https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/834747365 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone. Dial +1 (872) 240-3312 Access Code: 834-747-365 Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting Meeting ID: 834-747-365 GoToMeeting® Online Meetings Made Easy® Thierry Jean +55 11 99607 1319 ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Lombadas no OSM
Gostei também, so acrescentar para o sonorizador traffic_calming=rumble_strip: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:traffic_calming%3Drumble_strip Abraços Gian Piero On 21/10/2014 09:36, Gerald Weber wrote: Ficou ótimo! Prático e direto ao assunto como este tipo de documentação deve ser. Gostei muito. Desconheço sinônimos ou apelidos para sonorizador, mas mapear este tipo de estrutura me parece um preciosismo. Diferente de mapear lombadas que às vezes são de difícil visualização, principalmente à noite. Neste caso ter um alerta é bastante interessante. Além do mais lombadas também servem de referência (depois da lombada vire à direita). abraço Gerald ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-is] Access Address Register licence mini-revision
CC: talk-is Tryggvi Björgvinsson Greetings legal-talk list. There is an upcoming mini-revision of a user licence for the database called Access Address Register (Icelandic: staðfangaskrá) which is maintained by Registers Iceland. The plan in the long run is to implement a more open government licence which has yet to be finished. In the meantime, there might be cause to patch the current licence. For this process, I would like to gather any comments regarding which parts of the licence could be improved in order for it to conform with OSM's Contributor Terms and/or any ambiguityin that regard. The current licence is located at http://www.skra.is/fasteignaskra/stadfangaskra/user-licence/ Do you have any comments you would like for me to convey? With regards, Svavar Kjarrval signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is
[Talk-de] Wochenaufgabe KW 43/44 Recycling
Hallo ich darf verkünden, dass es, nachdem wir es die letzten Wochen zeitlich neben der Wochennotiz nicht geschafft haben eine Wochenaufgabe auf die Beine zu stellen, nun wieder eine gibt. Wochenaufgabe KW 43/44 Recycling http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2014/10/9581 Ich wünsch euch viel Spaß und werde versuchen die Fortschritte einmal am Tag zu dokumentieren. Damit wir die Wochenaufgabe in Zukunft wieder regelmäßiger bereitstellen zu können, suchen wir noch immer Leute, die daran mitarbeiten wollen. Am besten melden sich Interessenten unter blog(at)openstreetmap.de mfg Hedaja ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Hallo Leute, die Karte auf http://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html ist seit mindestens gestern Nachmittag defekt. Ich erinnere mich, dass es mal ein Repository mit den Webseite-Quellen gab, kann es aber momentan nicht finden. Daher bin ich dankbar für Hinweise, wo das Repository ist und was evtl. kaputt sein könnte bzw. eine Reparatur. Vielen Dank und beste Grüße, Roland ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Hallo, kannst du vielleicht sagen, was an der Seite nicht geht? Ich bin etwas bewandelt in dem Gebiet von HTML, JS und PHP... Ich würde mir das mal anschauen. Wenn du sagen würdest, was defekt ist, könnte ich den Fehler einfacher finden. Gruß Peter P.S. Benutze doch zur Not openstreetmap.org Am 22.10.2014 15:23 schrieb Roland Ramthun o...@roland-ramthun.de: Hallo Leute, die Karte auf http://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html ist seit mindestens gestern Nachmittag defekt. Ich erinnere mich, dass es mal ein Repository mit den Webseite-Quellen gab, kann es aber momentan nicht finden. Daher bin ich dankbar für Hinweise, wo das Repository ist und was evtl. kaputt sein könnte bzw. eine Reparatur. Vielen Dank und beste Grüße, Roland ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Hallo Roland, Am 2014-10-22 um 15:21 schrieb Roland Ramthun: die Karte auf http://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html ist seit mindestens gestern Nachmittag defekt. Ich erinnere mich, dass es mal ein Repository mit den Webseite-Quellen gab, kann es aber momentan nicht finden. Daher bin ich dankbar für Hinweise, wo das Repository ist und was evtl. kaputt sein könnte bzw. eine Reparatur. Die liegt im internationalen SVN unter http://svn.openstreetmap.org/sites/www.openstreetmap.de/var/www/www.openstreetmap.de/ Viele Grüße Michael -- Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Roland Ramthun o...@roland-ramthun.de wrote: die Karte auf http://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html ist seit mindestens gestern Nachmittag defekt. Ich vermute, dass das mit der kaputten Platte auf dem devserver zusammenhängt auf dem dieses komische iLike OSM läuft. Sven -- AMZN US won't let me buy MP3s b/c I have UK credit cards. Amazon UK won't let me buy MP3s b/c I'm in the US. P2P doesn't care. Go copyright! (Cory Doctorow) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Sven Geggus li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.de wrote: Ich vermute, dass das mit der kaputten Platte auf dem devserver zusammenhängt auf dem dieses komische iLike OSM läuft. Das wars ich hab das fürs Erste mal im Quellcode auskommentiert. Gruss Sven -- Microsoft ist offenbar die einzige Firma, die in der Lage ist, ein mit Office nicht kompatibles Bürosoftwarepaket einzuführen. (Florian Weimer in de.alt.sysadmin.recovery) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Am 22.10.2014 um 15:28 schrieb Peter Schmidt: kannst du vielleicht sagen, was an der Seite nicht geht? Ich bin etwas bewandelt in dem Gebiet von HTML, JS und PHP... Ich würde mir das mal anschauen. Wenn du sagen würdest, was defekt ist, könnte ich den Fehler zumindest bei mir kommt auch ne leere Seite. auf .org ist aber alles in Ordnung Grüße aus der Eifel Steffen ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Hallo, es geht jetzt auf einmal wieder! Gruß Peter Am 22.10.2014 15:44 schrieb Sven Geggus li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.de: Roland Ramthun o...@roland-ramthun.de wrote: die Karte auf http://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html ist seit mindestens gestern Nachmittag defekt. Ich vermute, dass das mit der kaputten Platte auf dem devserver zusammenhängt auf dem dieses komische iLike OSM läuft. Sven -- AMZN US won't let me buy MP3s b/c I have UK credit cards. Amazon UK won't let me buy MP3s b/c I'm in the US. P2P doesn't care. Go copyright! (Cory Doctorow) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Recycling Containerbezeichnung
Griaß eich, im Landkreis TS gibt es Container für Weißblech und Kronkorken, Alu und Schrott werden auf den Wertstoffhöfen gesammelt. Kommt auch daher, dass in die Container nur Grüner Punkt soll. Die anderen Fraktionen werden auch anders abgerechnet. Am ehesten sollte wohl recycling:sheet_metal=yes/no gewalzte Bleche passen, jedoch werden damit die meisten Kartennutzer nichts anfangen können. Habt Ihr einen Tip für mich? Danke Helmut -- Helmut Kauer Bodelschwinghstraße 35 83301 Traunreut ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Recycling Containerbezeichnung
Griaß eich, hat sich erledigt. Wer lesen kann ist klar im Vorteil: recycling:cans Helmut Am Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014, 16:10:45 schrieb Helmut Kauer: Griaß eich, im Landkreis TS gibt es Container für Weißblech und Kronkorken, Alu und Schrott werden auf den Wertstoffhöfen gesammelt. Kommt auch daher, dass in die Container nur Grüner Punkt soll. Die anderen Fraktionen werden auch anders abgerechnet. Am ehesten sollte wohl recycling:sheet_metal=yes/no gewalzte Bleche passen, jedoch werden damit die meisten Kartennutzer nichts anfangen können. Habt Ihr einen Tip für mich? Danke Helmut -- Helmut Kauer Bodelschwinghstraße 35 83301 Traunreut ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Peter Schmidt ungespielts@gmail.com wrote: es geht jetzt auf einmal wieder! Siehe m28cj1$4eg$1...@home.geggus.net Gruss Sven -- Ich fürchte mich nicht vor der Rückkehr der Faschisten in der Maske der Faschisten, sondern vor der Rückkehr der Faschisten in der Maske der Demokraten (Theodor W. Adorno) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM/Mapillary mapping party in Karlsruhe 26. November?
Danke Sven für den Tipp! /peter 2014-10-20 17:01 GMT+02:00 Sven Geggus li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.de: Peter Neubauer pe...@neubauer.se wrote: ich wollte nur Fragen ob es interessierte OSM-Mitglieder in Karlsruhe gibt http://lists.openstreetmap.de/mailman/listinfo/karlsruhe Stammtisch ist eine Woche früher am 19.11. Gruss Sven -- We don't know the OS that God uses, but the Vatican uses Linux (Sister Judith Zoebelein, Vatican Webmaster) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Karte auf openstreetmap.de defekt
Hi, Am Mittwoch, 22. Oktober 2014, 13:48:17 schrieb Sven Geggus: Sven Geggus li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.de wrote: Ich vermute, dass das mit der kaputten Platte auf dem devserver zusammenhängt auf dem dieses komische iLike OSM läuft. Das wars ich hab das fürs Erste mal im Quellcode auskommentiert. Von mir aus kann es auskommentiert bleiben. Wer brauchts? Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Il 10/21/2014 10:39 PM, Any File scrisse: Però nel caso in questione non saprei proprio dire se è senso unico o meno. Ma finora avevo sempre pensato che fosse senso unico. (ed ammetto che raramente guardo se ci sia il cartello senso unico, dove dall'altra parte c'è un cartello divieto di accesso). Quella strada secondo me non e' a senso unico. Ci possono entrare i tram, i taxi, i mezzi di soccorso, i ciclisti. 100 metri dopo la strada ha delle restrizioni diverse ma in generale le auto private possono percorrerla nei 2 sensi. E se non vedessi i cartelli non ti accorgeresti di una discontinuita' tra i 2 tratti. All'imbocco da Canova-Melzi d'Eril c'e' un divieto d'accesso per alcuni tipi di veicoli ma la strada resta a doppio senso. Non c'e' separazione fisica tra i 2 sensi, non ci sono cordoli. Impostarla a senso unico e' anche fuorviante per chi guarda la mappa. Se io ciclista vedo la mappa, ritengo che quello sia un senso unico e faccio un altro percorso. ciao maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-22 8:09 GMT+02:00 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it: Quella strada secondo me non e' a senso unico. Ci possono entrare i tram, i taxi, i mezzi di soccorso, i ciclisti. se c'è un senso unico per le macchine è oneway=yes, poi per gli eccezioni si mettono eccezioni, tipo oneway:tram=no o oneway:psv=no ecc. 100 metri dopo la strada ha delle restrizioni diverse ma in generale le auto private possono percorrerla nei 2 sensi. E se non vedessi i cartelli non ti accorgeresti di una discontinuita' tra i 2 tratti. come sappiamo probabilmente tutti, il cartello rilevante per un oneway è questo: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senso_unico#mediaviewer/File:Senso_Unico_left.jpg mentre questo http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senso_unico#mediaviewer/File:Italian_traffic_signs_-_senso_vietato.svg non è un oneway da solo, vuol dire soltanto che a quel punto non si può andare in quella direzione. Impostarla a senso unico e' anche fuorviante per chi guarda la mappa. Se io ciclista vedo la mappa, ritengo che quello sia un senso unico e faccio un altro percorso. se la strada è taggata come oneway:bicycle=no mi aspetterei da una mappa _per bici_ di non mostrarmi un senso unico (o di farmi capire in un altro modo che posso comunque prendere la strada in bici). Quando vado in macchina e vedo una strada che non è a senso unico nella mappa, ma lo è nella realtà, mi si creano delle difficoltà. I particolari di access e oneway servono sopratutto per i router, che devono avere informazioni corrette, il rendering non potrà mai indicare per tutti i tipi di veicoli l'accessibilità relativa. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Il 10/22/2014 09:56 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer scrisse: 2014-10-22 8:09 GMT+02:00 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it mailto:emm...@tiscalinet.it: Quella strada secondo me non e' a senso unico. Ci possono entrare i tram, i taxi, i mezzi di soccorso, i ciclisti. se c'è un senso unico per le macchine è oneway=yes, poi per gli eccezioni si mettono eccezioni, tipo oneway:tram=no o oneway:psv=no ecc. Martin, e' la stessa strada per cui qualche giorno fa avevi risposto il contrario! :-) La strada e' indicata con segnaletica orizzontale come preferenziale (righe gialle, scritte TRAM TAXI) per una ventina di metri, dall'imbocco al primo passo carraio. come sappiamo probabilmente tutti, il cartello rilevante per un oneway è questo: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senso_unico#mediaviewer/File:Senso_Unico_left.jpg mentre questo http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senso_unico#mediaviewer/File:Italian_traffic_signs_-_senso_vietato.svg non è un oneway da solo, vuol dire soltanto che a quel punto non si può andare in quella direzione. Infatti non c'e' il cartello di senso unico ma quello di divieto d'accesso. Come si sposa questo con cio' che hai scritto sopra? se la strada è taggata come oneway:bicycle=no mi aspetterei da una mappa _per bici_ di non mostrarmi un senso unico (o di farmi capire in un altro modo che posso comunque prendere la strada in bici). Quando vado in macchina e vedo una strada che non è a senso unico nella mappa, ma lo è nella realtà, mi si creano delle difficoltà. I particolari di access e oneway servono sopratutto per i router, che devono avere informazioni corrette, il rendering non potrà mai indicare per tutti i tipi di veicoli l'accessibilità relativa. Quindi Mapnik non e' una mappa per bici? E' una mappa per auto? A mio parere le difficolta' si creano piu' per i ciclisti che non per gli automobilisti. Il ciclista si prepara il percorso prima (guardando la mappa), l'automobilista usa il router che lo guida e gli evita di arrivare ad imboccare una strada che non puo' percorrere. ciao maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Velocizzare ricalco nodi esistenti
Il giorno 21 ottobre 2014 12:10, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto: 2014-10-21 11:53 GMT+02:00 Max1234Ita max1234...@gmail.com: Questa del tasto F non la sapevo ancora. ho provato e... *E' FANTASTICOOO! 8-) 8-) 8-)* Dannate foreste dell'Alto Oltrepo Pavese... A ME! :-p spero proprio che non fa botto questo sistema di duplicare ways, perché oltre a pesare sul db crea il prossimo incubo per chi deve aggiustare o modificare questi ways sovraposti. Non metto in dubbio che ci sono i casi d'uso sensati per questa funzione, ma le foreste a mio avviso non rientrano in questi casi. Dissento. Vedi ad esempio qui [1] : se per tutti questi campi avessi usato delle relazioni (nel primissimo pezzo l'avevo fatto), non solo ci avrei messo una vita, ma avrei anche creato dati MOLTO più pesanti. Facciamo il caso semplice di tutti campi quadrangolari (ci discostiamo poco in realtà): - senza relazioni: 4 nodi per campo MENO I NODI IN COMUNE, una way per campo che fa riferimento ai nodi - con relazioni: gli stessi nodi, ma quattro way per campo (che fanno riferimento a due soli nodi ciascuna), e una relazione per campo che fa riferimento alle way. Se poi i margini dei campi fossero sfalsati (incrocio a T), una way dovrebbe essere spezzata in due, creando altre way aggiuntive, che vanno aggiunte nelle relazioni. Quindi in realtà mi viene da dire: usiamo i multipoligoni *solo per aree molto estese*, che comunque non andrebbero create. Ad esempio mi viene l'orticaria a vedere queste foreste [2]. Ciao, Simone [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.32327/8.36639 [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/45.6194/8.2229 ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Velocizzare ricalco nodi esistenti
2014-10-22 10:44 GMT+02:00 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com: spero proprio che non fa botto questo sistema di duplicare ways, perché oltre a pesare sul db crea il prossimo incubo per chi deve aggiustare o modificare questi ways sovraposti. Non metto in dubbio che ci sono i casi d'uso sensati per questa funzione, ma le foreste a mio avviso non rientrano in questi casi. Dissento. Vedi ad esempio qui [1] : se per tutti questi campi avessi usato delle relazioni (nel primissimo pezzo l'avevo fatto), non solo ci avrei messo una vita, ma avrei anche creato dati MOLTO più pesanti. scusa Simone, ma non vedo foreste ;-) io lo farei dipendere dal numero di nodi in comune. Per 1-2 (forse 3-4) segmenti non farei una relazione, se sono di più, si. (Quindi per edifici spesso non ha senso, per campi spesso non ha senso). Quindi in realtà mi viene da dire: usiamo i multipoligoni *solo per aree molto estese*, che comunque non andrebbero create. Ad esempio mi viene l'orticaria a vedere queste foreste [2]. non è un domanda della dimensione, è da guardare quanto sia complesso (quantità di nodi). Per campi di questa forma continuerò di usare relazioni: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/41.94385/12.25004 ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-22 10:27 GMT+02:00 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it: se c'è un senso unico per le macchine è oneway=yes, poi per gli eccezioni si mettono eccezioni, tipo oneway:tram=no o oneway:psv=no ecc. Martin, e' la stessa strada per cui qualche giorno fa avevi risposto il contrario! :-) ... Infatti non c'e' il cartello di senso unico ma quello di divieto d'accesso. Come si sposa questo con cio' che hai scritto sopra? per me non c'è contraddizione, avevo scritto se c'è un senso unico per le macchine, ovviamente se non c'è quel senso unico per le macchine, non è oneway... Quindi Mapnik non e' una mappa per bici? E' una mappa per auto? in sostanza si. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Il 10/22/2014 11:01 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer scrisse: per me non c'è contraddizione, avevo scritto se c'è un senso unico per le macchine, ovviamente se non c'è quel senso unico per le macchine, non è oneway... Il wiki non parla di macchine: The oneway tag is used to indicate the access restriction on highways and other linear features as appropriate. This means that this tag should be used when this way can only be used in one direction. Note that a no entry sign prohibiting entry from one side or across one point of the road, does not automatically imply that the entire road is oneway (look for oneway signs along the road). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:oneway ciao maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-22 11:22 GMT+02:00 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it: per me non c'è contraddizione, avevo scritto se c'è un senso unico per le macchine, ovviamente se non c'è quel senso unico per le macchine, non è oneway... Il wiki non parla di macchine: si, chiedo scusa, ero impreciso, macchine, moto, motorini, furgoni, furgoncini, camion, cingolati, ... in generale tutti i veicoli. Ovvero, oneway si mette quando c'è il segno del senso unico. Per evventuali eccezioni si mette dei tags aggiuntivi. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Contest Open-Matera
http://dati.comune.matera.it/blog/?p=43 Divertitevi Inviato da iPhone___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Contest Open-Matera
Bello! Ma un mese per fare un'app?! Il 22/Ott/2014 11:53 Francesco Piero Paolicelli pierso...@gmail.com ha scritto: http://dati.comune.matera.it/blog/?p=43 Divertitevi Inviato da iPhone ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Opendata regione Umbria
Ci sono novità sul fronte ecografico catastale dell'Umbria? Maurizio Napolitano-3 wrote ,non so se si può intraprendere la strada della richiesta di accesso tramite convenzione come fatto con la regione Toscana. Secondo me si ma anche di più di questo visto che la Regione Umbria e partita con un progetto concreto sul tema agenda digitale dal nome LibreUmbria La regione Umbria, come tutti gli enti, ha molte anime. Ho avuto contatti di lavoro con l'ufficio del Piano Urbanistico Territoriale, che credo gestisca l'ecografico (i responsabili sono gli stessi), e non si sono dimostrati molto aperti. Non credo sia un caso che abbiano messo solo il wms e nessun tipo di download, al contrario di tutti gli altri dataset presenti sul portale. In ogni caso mi metto a disposizione per qualsiasi azione che richieda una presenza fisica sul posto. Andrea Fredduzzi -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Opendata-regione-Umbria-tp5819800p5821225.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica e specifiche ISTAT
Gli aggregati dei civici delle vari amministrazioni comunali recentemente aperti dalla regione FVG necessitano di revisione. FVG ha circa 1.600/430.000 nomi da controllare. Ho selezionato questi 1.600, tanti ma non infiniti, pensando ad un editing manuale, crowded. Mi chiedo però (e chiedo alla ML nazionale) se sia il caso o meno di anticipare quello che le amministrazioni dovrebbero fare a breve, secondo la guida operativa [1] emessa da Agenzia Entrate ISTAT. Standardizzare i nomi alla fonte dovrebbe essere prioritario, in quanto una semplice punteggiatura genererebbe parecchi no_match con il preesistente OSM, e quindi addr privi di streetname. La procedura che avevo in mente: 1- creare le query per standardizzare la fonte (abbreviazioni, correzioni, upper/lower case, numerazioni) 2- ogr2ogr per: risolvere il multipart2singlepart dello shp regionale, applicare le query sopra 3- org2osm per mappare i tag 4- eseguire una no_match per identificare errori residui: se in OSM, creare una OSM note se nella fonte aggiungere una query di correzione e ritornare a 2- [1] http://wwwt.agenziaentrate.gov.it/mt/ServiziComuniIstituzioni/GO_PortaleComuni_estratto_Toponomastica_24042014.pdf - -- cascafico.altervista.org twitter.com/cascafico -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Toponomastica-e-specifiche-ISTAT-tp5814460p5821229.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
(Rinomino l'oggetto in italiano per attirare di più l'attenzione ed evitare il cross posting) Steve dice: * dobbiamo concentrarci sugli indirizzi * in 3 anni diventeremo la migliore mappa del mondo sotto gni aspeto * abbiamo bisogno di board (per OSMf) più snello e funzionante, possibilmente affiancato da uno staff. Che ne dite? Ciao, C -- Forwarded message -- From: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Date: 2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Subject: [OSM-talk] A Better Map To: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org, t...@openstreetmap.org Talk t...@openstreetmap.org Why are we here on these mailing lists? Why do we spend so much time making maps? I think ultimately because it’s fun. It’s a neat hobby and we’re making the world a slightly better place. You need the right environment for things to be fun. Someone has to install the toys in the playground. Someone needs to pay for the slides and install the swings so that the kids can run around. Then someone else needs to fix them when they fail and make sure you don’t break your neck unexpectedly. In the past I’ve tried hard to make OSM a fun playground, by doing things like taking all the warning labels off and letting people do whatever they like. Things like open tagging or letting anyone edit, which were crazy ideas in 2004. I’ve also at times been responsible for it not being fun. Partly because I was a kid learning the hard way and partly because sometimes you need to make decisions. I agree that in some ways OSM isn’t a fun playground right now. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be again. We had a lot of fun with our swings and our slides. But now there are a lot more people to join the fun from far away places and we’re older. Maybe we now prefer bumper cars and video games to the old swings and slides. We should keep the swings and the slides. People new to the playground will still enjoy them. But we should also build a bumper car arena and maybe a video game arcade. Sometimes we might go back and play on the slide too. We need some new skills to build these new toys. Together, we need a mission and then a couple of course corrections to make it happen. I think addressing should be our mission. We built the worlds best display map already. We won. If you print out any OSM map of practically anywhere, it’s the best. But we can’t find anything on it without comprehensive and global addressing information. It’s the hidden data behind the map we now need to go after. All the other things we need to do are also good things. Diversity in all it’s forms, faster servers, better tools, easier documentation and more. A clear mission provides a framework and guidance for achieving those things. “Map more stuff” got us very, very far. But now, we should focus on what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps. And that is addressing. How would we go achieve that? There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board bandwidth. The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be 3 people. 5 at maximum. Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to also achieve goals. The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff isn’t about deprecating volunteer involvement, it’s about plugging the gaps. It’s not a perfect solution but the alternative is to rely on companies to do many of these things, and that really isn’t perfect either. In terms of the mechanics, 1. Change the mission statement of OSM to be something like “The world’s best addressable map” 2. The board figures out how to voluntarily shrink to 3-5 people, and, meets in person 2-4 times a year 3. Consulting with the community on exact roles and remit, hire 1-3 people [*] Together, we could do this in 6-12 months and finish addressing in 1-3 years. At that point we wouldn’t have just made the world slightly better, we would have put a big dent in the universe. Nobody
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
Sto integrando parti della tua lettera in e-mail PEC che sto inviando a vari comuni. Grazie ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Cportal
Ciao, diversi uffici tecnici di comuni hanno adottato questo portale http://www.cportal.it/ es. http://www.albenga.cportal.it/Cartografia.aspx Che in diversi casi offre il download di piccole aree dai vari tematismi. Ho provato a scrivere qualche giorno fa per chiedere se sono conformi al CAD e se è possibile mettere a disposizione i download in versione completa, ma non hanno ancora risposto. Se qualcuno ha tempo / voglia di prender contatti telefonici... Ciao, Stefano ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
On 22 October 2014 14:23, Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com wrote: (Rinomino l'oggetto in italiano per attirare di più l'attenzione ed evitare il cross posting) Steve dice: * dobbiamo concentrarci sugli indirizzi per me ognuno mappa ciò che vuole, non devono essere date direttive e soprattutto non posso ne vedere ne sentire “The world’s best addressable map” * in 3 anni diventeremo la migliore mappa del mondo sotto gni aspeto anche qui non sono sono del tutto d'accordo, continuo a vedere cose in giro per l'Italia che mi fanno piangere (alcune sono dovute ad import automatici, altre ad inesperienza dei mappatori), se pensiamo alla mappa mondiale probabilmente è anche vero ma se andiamo a cercare elementi specifici si rischia di fare figuracce. Infine non è possibile non avere il formato poligonale tra le tipologia di elementi esistenti nel db Che ne dite? soprattutto riguardo il primo punto spero che Steve non stia cercando di indirizzare OSM verso qualcosa che possa servire ai suoi datori di lavoro. Ciao, C -- ciao Luca http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/ www.lucadelu.org ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
2014-10-22 14:23 GMT+02:00 Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com: (Rinomino l'oggetto in italiano per attirare di più l'attenzione ed evitare il cross posting) Steve dice: * dobbiamo concentrarci sugli indirizzi Certo, è là che c'è il cash $$$ * in 3 anni diventeremo la migliore mappa del mondo sotto gni aspeto Solo se continuano ad arrivare tizi pagati per fare QA ed inserire la roba pallosa :-) * abbiamo bisogno di board (per OSMf) più snello e funzionante, possibilmente affiancato da uno staff. I sistemisti sono pagati o sono su base volontaria? Nel secondo caso bisognerebbe incominciare da loro ad assumere... Che ne dite? Ciao, C -- Forwarded message -- From: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Date: 2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Subject: [OSM-talk] A Better Map To: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org, t...@openstreetmap.org Talk t...@openstreetmap.org Why are we here on these mailing lists? Why do we spend so much time making maps? I think ultimately because it’s fun. It’s a neat hobby and we’re making the world a slightly better place. You need the right environment for things to be fun. Someone has to install the toys in the playground. Someone needs to pay for the slides and install the swings so that the kids can run around. Then someone else needs to fix them when they fail and make sure you don’t break your neck unexpectedly. In the past I’ve tried hard to make OSM a fun playground, by doing things like taking all the warning labels off and letting people do whatever they like. Things like open tagging or letting anyone edit, which were crazy ideas in 2004. I’ve also at times been responsible for it not being fun. Partly because I was a kid learning the hard way and partly because sometimes you need to make decisions. I agree that in some ways OSM isn’t a fun playground right now. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be again. We had a lot of fun with our swings and our slides. But now there are a lot more people to join the fun from far away places and we’re older. Maybe we now prefer bumper cars and video games to the old swings and slides. We should keep the swings and the slides. People new to the playground will still enjoy them. But we should also build a bumper car arena and maybe a video game arcade. Sometimes we might go back and play on the slide too. We need some new skills to build these new toys. Together, we need a mission and then a couple of course corrections to make it happen. I think addressing should be our mission. We built the worlds best display map already. We won. If you print out any OSM map of practically anywhere, it’s the best. But we can’t find anything on it without comprehensive and global addressing information. It’s the hidden data behind the map we now need to go after. All the other things we need to do are also good things. Diversity in all it’s forms, faster servers, better tools, easier documentation and more. A clear mission provides a framework and guidance for achieving those things. “Map more stuff” got us very, very far. But now, we should focus on what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps. And that is addressing. How would we go achieve that? There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board bandwidth. The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be 3 people. 5 at maximum. Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to also achieve goals. The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff isn’t about deprecating volunteer involvement, it’s about plugging the gaps. It’s not a perfect solution but the alternative is to rely on companies to do many of these things, and that really isn’t perfect either. In terms of the mechanics, 1. Change the mission statement of OSM to be something like “The world’s best
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Il 10/22/2014 08:09 AM, emmexx scrisse: Quella strada secondo me non e' a senso unico. Ci possono entrare i tram, i taxi, i mezzi di soccorso, i ciclisti. 100 metri dopo la strada ha delle restrizioni diverse ma in generale le auto private possono percorrerla nei 2 sensi. E se non vedessi i cartelli non ti accorgeresti di una discontinuita' tra i 2 tratti. All'imbocco da Canova-Melzi d'Eril c'e' un divieto d'accesso per alcuni tipi di veicoli ma la strada resta a doppio senso. Non c'e' separazione fisica tra i 2 sensi, non ci sono cordoli. Ho scattato alcune foto. [1] In direzione Canova - Melzi d'Eril da incrocio con Gherardini [2] primo passo carraio in cui termina la segnaletica orizzontale di preferenziale [3] Imbocco della via all'incrocio con Canova - Melzi d'Eril ciao maxx [1] http://www.emmexx.it/varie/osm/sempione/DSC_0056.JPG [2] http://www.emmexx.it/varie/osm/sempione/DSC_0057.JPG [3] http://www.emmexx.it/varie/osm/sempione/DSC_0061.JPG ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
I sistemisti sono pagati o sono su base volontaria? Nel secondo caso bisognerebbe incominciare da loro ad assumere.. + Francesca 2014-10-22 15:10 GMT+02:00 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com: 2014-10-22 14:23 GMT+02:00 Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com: (Rinomino l'oggetto in italiano per attirare di più l'attenzione ed evitare il cross posting) Steve dice: * dobbiamo concentrarci sugli indirizzi Certo, è là che c'è il cash $$$ * in 3 anni diventeremo la migliore mappa del mondo sotto gni aspeto Solo se continuano ad arrivare tizi pagati per fare QA ed inserire la roba pallosa :-) * abbiamo bisogno di board (per OSMf) più snello e funzionante, possibilmente affiancato da uno staff. I sistemisti sono pagati o sono su base volontaria? Nel secondo caso bisognerebbe incominciare da loro ad assumere... Che ne dite? Ciao, C -- Forwarded message -- From: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Date: 2014-10-22 12:15 GMT+02:00 Subject: [OSM-talk] A Better Map To: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org, t...@openstreetmap.org Talk t...@openstreetmap.org Why are we here on these mailing lists? Why do we spend so much time making maps? I think ultimately because it’s fun. It’s a neat hobby and we’re making the world a slightly better place. You need the right environment for things to be fun. Someone has to install the toys in the playground. Someone needs to pay for the slides and install the swings so that the kids can run around. Then someone else needs to fix them when they fail and make sure you don’t break your neck unexpectedly. In the past I’ve tried hard to make OSM a fun playground, by doing things like taking all the warning labels off and letting people do whatever they like. Things like open tagging or letting anyone edit, which were crazy ideas in 2004. I’ve also at times been responsible for it not being fun. Partly because I was a kid learning the hard way and partly because sometimes you need to make decisions. I agree that in some ways OSM isn’t a fun playground right now. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be again. We had a lot of fun with our swings and our slides. But now there are a lot more people to join the fun from far away places and we’re older. Maybe we now prefer bumper cars and video games to the old swings and slides. We should keep the swings and the slides. People new to the playground will still enjoy them. But we should also build a bumper car arena and maybe a video game arcade. Sometimes we might go back and play on the slide too. We need some new skills to build these new toys. Together, we need a mission and then a couple of course corrections to make it happen. I think addressing should be our mission. We built the worlds best display map already. We won. If you print out any OSM map of practically anywhere, it’s the best. But we can’t find anything on it without comprehensive and global addressing information. It’s the hidden data behind the map we now need to go after. All the other things we need to do are also good things. Diversity in all it’s forms, faster servers, better tools, easier documentation and more. A clear mission provides a framework and guidance for achieving those things. “Map more stuff” got us very, very far. But now, we should focus on what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps. And that is addressing. How would we go achieve that? There are two basic fixes. Make the board functional and give the board bandwidth. The board is too big. It grew for good reasons but now it’s just hard to achieve anything. Seven people mean that if everyone speaks for five minutes in a conversation on some issue, you use over half an hour. In an hour-long meeting that means you can barely discuss two things. Ignoring all the other issues, just the pure mechanics shows you how hard it is to talk through something let alone achieve a consensus. The board needs to be 3 people. 5 at maximum. Being on the board is a difficult job, especially as a volunteer. Most people aren’t used to such roles. They may think like I did that they need to please everybody all the time. They aren’t able to attend meetings because they have a day job and other life commitments. The board needs to meet in person regularly with a facilitator and also have guidance about what it means to be on a board. We can’t expect volunteers to naturally figure all this stuff out by themselves and then also devote the time to also achieve goals. The board needs paid staff. There are a variety of things those paid staff can do which the board can decide. It’s clear that there are things that volunteers don’t have fun doing and therefore they don’t happen at all, but are still very important for a functioning organization. Having paid staff isn’t about deprecating volunteer involvement, it’s about plugging the gaps. It’s not a perfect solution but the alternative is
Re: [Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Francesca Valentina coretodes...@gmail.com wrote: I sistemisti sono pagati o sono su base volontaria? Nel secondo caso bisognerebbe incominciare da loro ad assumere.. + Prima di pagarli, OSMF dovrebbe fare fundraising. -- -S ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Relazioni parchi Emila-Romagna
Il progetto di importazione parchi in ER https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Emilia_Romagna_parchi e https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Emilia_Romagna_parchi_-_stato_import mi sembra abbia preso una brutta piega. Utilizzo non corretto delle relazioni: ad esempio «Parchi regionali provincia Modena» http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3510570/ suona esattamente come «Footways in East Anglia» https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Relations_are_not_Categories Utilizzo non corretto del tag name: ad esempio in http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3524695 il name è «IT4040002 - SIC-ZPS - Monte Rondinaio, Monte Giovo», duplicando l'informazione del tag ref:SIC=IT4040002 Utilizzo di una key che termina col carattere due punti «protection_title:» che solitamente viene usato per i namespaces https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Namespace Utilizzo di keys con scarsa documentazione e nessuna discussione: ad esempio «protection_instruction» documentato (poco) solo sulla pagina del progetto, mai usato da altri mapper fuori dall'ER, non documentato sul wiki generale, pagine di discussione assenti, values che solitamente linkano un pdf su un sito esterno. Utilizzo non documentato di values «n.a.» Utilizzo non documentato di relazioni che contengono contemporaneamente sia altre relazioni (come le super-relation) sia ways: ad esempio http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3555262 Sostanziale duplicazione delle informazioni: ad esempio http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3573428 e http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3573428 . Ways appartenenti alle relazioni ma senza alcun tag: ad esempio http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/294951973 che segue in maniera molto approssimativa alcuni confini tra landuses, alcuni sentieri, alcuni confini amministrativi, ecc ... Gli esempi non sono esaustivi, son solo le prime cose che mi son capitate cercando di approfondire questa grande massa di dati piuttosto informe. Prima che qualcuno si metta a modificare puntualmente qualche dato, prima che altri buttino tutto alle ortiche, ... sarebbe bello salvare qualcosa. Idee? ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
e' un circolo vizioso, fimche' la mappa non sara' abbastanza matura ed omogenea i contributi da enti commerciali saranno solo di buona volonta' non appena quel limite sara' valicato diverranmo piu' consistenti percje osm sara' vitale a molti io mi trovo molto d'accorco con steve Il mercoledì 22 ottobre 2014, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com ha scritto: On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Francesca Valentina coretodes...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: I sistemisti sono pagati o sono su base volontaria? Nel secondo caso bisognerebbe incominciare da loro ad assumere.. + Prima di pagarli, OSMF dovrebbe fare fundraising. -- -S ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org javascript:; https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Edoardo Yossef Marascalchi skype: asca_edom ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
Il 22/ott/2014 14:51 Luca Delucchi lucadel...@gmail.com ha scritto: On 22 October 2014 14:23, Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com wrote: (Rinomino l'oggetto in italiano per attirare di più l'attenzione ed evitare il cross posting) Steve dice: * dobbiamo concentrarci sugli indirizzi per me ognuno mappa ciò che vuole, non devono essere date direttive ... ... continuo a vedere cose in giro per l'Italia che mi fanno piangere (alcune sono dovute ad import automatici, altre ad inesperienza dei mappatori) Io ho il mio metodo: mappo ciò che voglio, ma quando vedo luoghi ancora quasi senza strade. ... allora metto una mano sul cuore e l'altra sul mouse e ricalco le strade. Non possiamo dirci mappa se non abbiamo almeno le strade. Saluti a tutti Sbiribizio ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
Cristian Consonni wrote * in 3 anni diventeremo la migliore mappa del mondo sotto ogni aspetto io avevo detto 5, comunque mica c'è fretta. E poi non è necessario diventare i migliori, basta diventare più affidabili e perseverare con la stessa etica con la quale è nato il progetto -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Una-mappa-migliore-Fwd-OSM-talk-A-Better-Map-tp5821240p5821270.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it