[talk-ph] Featured image: OpenOrienteeringMap of Ayala Center
Hi guys, This week's Featured image is the OpenOrienteeringMap render of Ayala Center: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OpenOrienteeringMap_of_Ayala_Center,_Makati_2010-01-29.png (I mentioned OpenOrienteeringMap last month: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2010-January/001676.html ) This image also happens to be this week's Featured image for the OSM project as a whole: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Iotw Other featured images for the Philippines: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Featured_images Suggestions welcome here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Featured_images/Nominations Eugene (osm:seav) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Quarterly Mapping Parties (was: Re: Looking forward to OSM-PH in 2010
Hi guys, For the 1st quarter Mapping Party, the selected venue is Marikina City. Short details: When: March 20, 2010 (Saturday) Where: Marikina Meet-up place: maybe Blue Wave Marquinton Post-mapping place: SM City Marikina (free Wi-Fi!) What: Day: POI mapping (similar to the Cubao Mapping Party) [1] Night: OSM social (similar to the Grappa's meet-up last February 2009) [2] More details can be found at the OSM Wiki: [3]. If you can't come to the mapping activity proper, we'd love it if you come to the social. We can talk about OSM, share mapping stories, show each other our GPS gear, etc. Maning will try to contact people from the Marikina City Government (he already has two leads) and first-timers should come as well to meet fellow mappers. Let's try to make this the biggest Philippine Mapping Party yet! Mark your calendars now! :-D [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Cubao [2] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2009-February/000439.html [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina Eugene (osm:seav) On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: For the first quarter Mapping Party, let's set it for March 20, Saturday (or 21, Sunday). This is an arbitrary selection more than a month into the future and far from long weekends. Hopefully most people don't have plans for that weekend yet. If you don't have plans on that weekend yet, block it off for OSM! :-) As for where, let's make it simple and do a Metro Manila spot. We can plan the out-of-town Mapping Party in either the 2nd, 3rd or 4th quarter. Here are the three currently suggested activities for Metro Manila http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party: - POI mapping in Marikina - Maning: Most of the roads are completely mapped (I know because I did it :)). However, POIs are sparse (not my type of mapping). Most POIs are located along the strip of commercial spaces along primary and secondary roads. A one or two-day POI mapping can greatly improve coverage by adding numerous amenities and shops. This can be mapped either on foot, bike or car using gps, photo-mapping or walking papers. I am (maning) willing to coordinate this event. - Chinatown in Manila - perfect for adding POIs, lots of interesting shops and novelty stores around Binondo, Quiapo and Divisoria. - Barangay scavenger hunt in Malate, Ermita, and Intramuros in Manila - Go around these three districts collecting the boundaries of each barangay, location of their barangay halls, and their zone number (POIs and road verifying is incidental). This would entail talking to tons of barangay officials so OSM-PH, Inc. should have been established already (maybe). This proposal is in the case no acceptable data can be obtained from the Manila City Hall. Any other ideas? ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] Announcing: OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party
hi, Here's my short blurb announcing our first mapping party for this year. Please forward to any mailinglist/group whom you think will be interested. A list of yahoogroups I posted the announcement is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina#Event_Announcement If there is a good number of newbies, we might need to have several GPS units for loan. Anyone willing to loan their own units just send me a message or add your name and GPS in the marikina page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina === OSM-PH Marikina Mapping Party We will have our Openstreetmap Philippines Marikina City Mapping Party on March 20, 2010. Invite your friends. We will teach you how to map using GPS, paper, on foot, car or bike. Let's make Marikina City the best mapped city in OSM. It's fun. It's free. You can help. Please watch this page for more details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Mapping_Party/Marikina If anyone is willing to join, help in the preps or sponsor the event just PM me: emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com cheers, maning === -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces of ianlopez from the gpstogo unit
He moves pretty fast! :-) Jim maning sambale wrote, On Tuesday, 23 February, 2010 01:34 PM: A video of gps traces around Los Banos and San Pablo mostly by ianlopez http://www.flickr.com/photos/esambale/4381308650/ The most updated map of theses towns was mapped purely from gps and local knowledge by a single OSMer. No aerial images, no mapping buddy. -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Track Grade 1
Kenny Moens wrote: Hello, Are there any formal conventions in BE about the Track Grade1? I see them appearing regularly in the area between Brussels and Leuven, and also around Sint-Truiden for roads limited to agricultural use. Personally I tend to avoid them and instead use the highway=unclassified tag as long as they are paved (with the necessary restrictions applied on it). I agree. If it's paved then it's unclassified (or residential or service) -- and I'd like to see that as some sort of convention. The grade 1 for paved tracks is just a bad idea as it creates another fuzzy distinction between unclassified and track. IIRC, the German OSM'ers thought it was a good idea so they put it on the wiki without discussion, even when the definition of highway=track had always been an unpaved road to that point. Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion
Strange enough, I still get the wrong result, even when using 100.0 instead of 100. The extra ) was because I copied the line from Java code. Maybe somethings wrong with my spatial_ref_sys table. I have two entries: 4326;EPSG; 4326; GEOGCS[WGS 84,DATUM[WGS_1984,SPHEROID[WGS 84,6378137,298.257223563,AUTHORITY[EPSG,7030]],AUTHORITY[EPSG,6326]],PRIMEM[Greenwich,0,AUTHORITY[EPSG,8901]],UNIT[degree,0.01745329251994328,AUTHORITY[EPSG,9122]],AUTHORITY[EPSG,4326]]; +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs and 900913; EPSG; 900913;PROJCS[WGS84 / Simple Mercator,GEOGCS[WGS 84,DATUM[WGS_1984,SPHEROID[WGS_1984, 6378137.0, 298.257223563]],PRIMEM[Greenwich, 0.0],UNIT[degree, 0.017453292519943295],AXIS[Longitude, EAST],AXIS[Latitude, NORTH]],PROJECTION[Mercator_1SP_Google],PARAMETER[latitude_of_origin, 0.0],PARAMETER[central_meridian, 0.0],PARAMETER[scale_factor, 1.0],PARAMETER[false_easting, 0.0],PARAMETER[false_northing, 0.0],UNIT[m, 1.0],AXIS[x, EAST],AXIS[y, NORTH],AUTHORITY[EPSG,900913]];+proj=merc +a=6378137 +b=6378137 +lat_ts=0.0 +lon_0=0.0 +x_0=0.0 +y_0=0 +k=1.0 +units=m +nadgri...@null +no_defs Would you mind posting your entries for comparison? Thanks a lot, Ben -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/OSM2PQSQL-PostGis-Coordinate-Conversion-tp4367010p4610881.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, Jochen Plumeyer wrote: In our case of photo geo tagging this is no issue I think. Please tell me if I'm wrong here. For photo geo-tagging the main problem is that you can set the camera time to a resolution of one minute, not one second, and the camera time will drift, probably inversely related to the purchase price. So some form of fiddling is needed to accurately place the photos, trying a few secs forward and back until they line up on the map with known features. So whether your GPS is UTC or GPS time is not a practical problem. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion
d8930 wrote: It works for me, though there was an extra ) in what you quoted. gis= select astext(ST_Transform(ST_SetSRID(ST_MakePoint(92409686/100,646985238/100),900913), 4326)); astext - POINT(8.30129560793713 50.135942170124) (1 row) You will get slightly better accuracy if you divide by 100.0 to force the result to be calculated as a float: gis= select astext(ST_Transform(ST_SetSRID(ST_MakePoint(92409686/100.0,646985238/100.0),900913), 4326)); astext - POINT(8.3013044857 50.135944358132) (1 row) Which version of Postgres do you use? I am using 8.3. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/OSM2PQSQL-PostGis-Coordinate-Conversion-tp4367010p4611266.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion
d8930 wrote: Strange enough, I still get the wrong result, even when using 100.0 instead of 100. The extra ) was because I copied the line from Java code. Maybe somethings wrong with my spatial_ref_sys table. I have two entries: 4326;EPSG; 4326; GEOGCS[WGS 84,DATUM[WGS_1984,SPHEROID[WGS 84,6378137,298.257223563,AUTHORITY[EPSG,7030]],AUTHORITY[EPSG,6326]],PRIMEM[Greenwich,0,AUTHORITY[EPSG,8901]],UNIT[degree,0.01745329251994328,AUTHORITY[EPSG,9122]],AUTHORITY[EPSG,4326]]; +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs and 900913; EPSG; 900913;PROJCS[WGS84 / Simple Mercator,GEOGCS[WGS 84,DATUM[WGS_1984,SPHEROID[WGS_1984, 6378137.0, 298.257223563]],PRIMEM[Greenwich, 0.0],UNIT[degree, 0.017453292519943295],AXIS[Longitude, EAST],AXIS[Latitude, NORTH]],PROJECTION[Mercator_1SP_Google],PARAMETER[latitude_of_origin, 0.0],PARAMETER[central_meridian, 0.0],PARAMETER[scale_factor, 1.0],PARAMETER[false_easting, 0.0],PARAMETER[false_northing, 0.0],UNIT[m, 1.0],AXIS[x, EAST],AXIS[y, NORTH],AUTHORITY[EPSG,900913]];+proj=merc +a=6378137 +b=6378137 +lat_ts=0.0 +lon_0=0.0 +x_0=0.0 +y_0=0 +k=1.0 +units=m +nadgri...@null +no_defs Would you mind posting your entries for comparison? Thanks a lot, Ben Sorry for spamming. I found out that it has to deal with the 4326 entry. I have added the projection 4324 from the Postgis installation package, and I get quite precise results: POINT(8.30107722233746 50.1359315159791) Nevertheless, this result differs a few meters from the one you obtained with the 4326 projection. So I guess, with your entry I should get it right. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/OSM2PQSQL-PostGis-Coordinate-Conversion-tp4367010p4611333.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion
Sorry for spamming. I found out that it has to deal with the 4326 entry. I have added the projection 4324 from the Postgis installation package, and I get quite precise results: POINT(8.30107722233746 50.1359315159791) Nevertheless, this result differs a few meters from the one you obtained with the 4326 projection. So I guess, with your entry I should get it right. I made a short test. I get your results with projection 3821, Taiwan_Datum_1967. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/OSM2PQSQL-PostGis-Coordinate-Conversion-tp4367010p4611681.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM2PQSQL / PostGis: Coordinate Conversion
On 22 February 2010 10:51, d8930 d8...@uggsrock.com wrote: Sorry for spamming. I found out that it has to deal with the 4326 entry. I have added the projection 4324 from the Postgis installation package, and I get quite precise results: POINT(8.30107722233746 50.1359315159791) Nevertheless, this result differs a few meters from the one you obtained with the 4326 projection. So I guess, with your entry I should get it right. It looks like your problems are around your postgis or proj install and not an osm2pgsql issue. Make sure that you have the datum files for the proj library installed, on Fedora/CentOS these are in a separate proj-nad package. -- Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Creating custom OSM sites using the Mapnik OSM plugin?
Not sure if talk's the best place for this, rather than dev, but I would guess so as it doesn't relate to OSM development itself. Anyway, some time ago I developed the OSM plugin for Mapnik, but due to other things haven't worked on it for a while. However I always thought that it would be useful in allowing people to generate OSM tiles on their own machine without the need for a PostGIS database. This has a number of benefits: firstly, someone who wanted to create their own OSM-based site wouldn't need to set up PostGIS, which can be a little tricky, and secondly (and I'm finding this is becoming quite a severe problem on my own Freemap site) the server resources required would be much less - the server could just serve static Mapnik tiles with no need for a database at all (though my own site still needs a database for the POIs). Users could render on their own machine and then upload. After the initial phase a GUI could be added to the application. Do people think this is a good idea? It's one of several possibilities that I'd like to work on, though I'd probably only do so if there's sufficient interest and/or I can't resolve the memory issues on my own site in other ways. Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Creating custom OSM sites using the Mapnik OSM plugin?
Do people think this is a good idea? It's one of several possibilities that I'd like to work on, though I'd probably only do so if there's sufficient interest and/or I can't resolve the memory issues on my own site in other ways. Sorry to follow up my own post - but I forgot to say, this would be aimed more at small scale, specialist sites (e.g. a city, a county or a small country such as England or Wales) rather than say, Europe-, USA-, or world-wide, as it would be required to upload locally-generated tiles onto a server which probably wouldn't be feasible large scale. Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Creating custom OSM sites using the Mapnik OSM plugin?
Hi Nick! On Lun 22 Feb 2010, Nick Whitelegg wrote: Do people think this is a good idea? It's one of several possibilities that I'd like to work on, though I'd probably only do so if there's sufficient interest and/or I can't resolve the memory issues on my own site in other ways. well, to handle amounts data as large as planet.osm in a performant manner, I think you need efficient database-like infrastructure (fast search trees, cache mechanisms and such). I wrote a potential zero-install script to use SQLite for OSM data, which performance already is rather low, but for let's say 100 MByte osm file that would be feasable. But would this be sane? I don't think so, because like this you use CPU resources like a Hummer SUV uses gas (until the tile cache is filled). On the other hand, you can compile PostgreSQL in a local way, in your local user account. It is actually surprising, that it is just a tiny ~ 5 MByte install, nearly as easy to handle as SQLite. Perhaps this would be a solution, à la WAMP packages which contain software stacks like Apache, MySQL, PHP in an easy to use installer. Are there other efficient binary representations of OSM data? It seems there are, gosmore contains its own OSM data converter, (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Gosmore) is fast and uses just osm.bz2 * 2 file space. Cheers, Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Creating custom OSM sites using the Mapnik OSM plugin?
Hi again, Sorry for misinterpreting your mail. Now I understand, that you suggest uploading tiles to a server due to (memory) restrictions. If PostGIS is not what you like, what about MySQL (perhaps without geo extensions, if they depend on libraries not available on a common hosting server environment)? Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Creating custom OSM sites using the Mapnik OSM plugin?
Hi Nick, I would be very interested in such an application, especially for generating custom tiles from an OSM file for use on mobile devices. Cheers, Joseph On 22 February 2010 12:43, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: Not sure if talk's the best place for this, rather than dev, but I would guess so as it doesn't relate to OSM development itself. Anyway, some time ago I developed the OSM plugin for Mapnik, but due to other things haven't worked on it for a while. However I always thought that it would be useful in allowing people to generate OSM tiles on their own machine without the need for a PostGIS database. This has a number of benefits: firstly, someone who wanted to create their own OSM-based site wouldn't need to set up PostGIS, which can be a little tricky, and secondly (and I'm finding this is becoming quite a severe problem on my own Freemap site) the server resources required would be much less - the server could just serve static Mapnik tiles with no need for a database at all (though my own site still needs a database for the POIs). Users could render on their own machine and then upload. After the initial phase a GUI could be added to the application. Do people think this is a good idea? It's one of several possibilities that I'd like to work on, though I'd probably only do so if there's sufficient interest and/or I can't resolve the memory issues on my own site in other ways. Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Creating custom OSM sites using the Mapnik OSM plugin?
Nick, the main problem with the OSM plugin is that the user group most likely to be unable or unwilling to install PostGIS is also the group least likely to develop their own map style, and the plugin doesn't come with something even remotely resembling what these people usually expect, namely the openstreetmap.org style. Regarding tile generation and uploading; I don't think this is something that can ever compete with a proper Mapnik setup. If I really were very limited regarding the tile server, say if that were a VM where I can do nothing but deliver pre-made tiles, I would still install a plain vanilla Mapnik/PostGIS setup on my home machine and run tilesgen there, uploading the results. I haven't run the OSM plugin myself but I should be very surprised if, using a style that has about the same level of detail the osm.org style has, you could render an English county on an useful zoomlevel faster with that setup than, on the same machine, with a PostGIS+osm2pgsql+Mapnik setup. I regularly use the data for Baden-Wuerttemberg in Germany as a test bed and this takes only a few minutes to import with osm2pgsql on a normal desktop PC... Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cartagena colrut reconocimiento
Legal issue about OSM being used in another map database - redirecting to talk-es and talk-co ... El 22/02/2010 3:35, diego lesmes escribió: http://groups.google.com.co/group/colrut-em/browse_thread/thread/f27c4b8bc7ffb029/d776a7d882a7db83?lnk=gstq=cartagena#d776a7d882a7db83 pienso me pareceria justo ellos tuviesen en sus mapas y web una simple cita asi: Algunos datos CCBYSA 2010 por OpenStreetMap.org y contribuyentes - Terminos de uso Diego, No es que te parezca bien - es que están legalmente obligados por la licencia de OSM. Fredy, ¿sabes algo de ese proyecto? ¿Te importa reenviar esto a talk-co? -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 5:03 AM, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: I live in a place where I feel the need to map some streets as areas. If I start a little of such mapping, will routing software get confused? How were you planning to achieve this? There is still no consensus that I'm aware of for how to do this What about http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:area ? As I said above, so long as the road doesn't have any street lines within it (as most of the residential roads where I live are), you just draw a border around the area and tag it with highway=residential (or whatever) and area=yes. For example, http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.077444lon=-82.548096zoom=18layers=B000FTF ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Underwater scuba map in KML
Hi all, I was playing around exporting OSM to KML. I did this underwater map which is intended for scuba diving. Various points of interest and underwater guide ropes are shown. I used python to do the conversion. http://timsc.dev.openstreetmap.org/dev/leybourne.kmz I have used parts of the proposed tagging: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/scuba_diving I would be interested in any comments, for example what is the best way of storing and tagging depth contours in OSM or if anyone wants to buddy for underwater mapping in the UK (mainly southern UK is my preference). TimSC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photo_mapping - How to put EXIF data into a jpg image
On 22/02/2010 09:04, Liz wrote: On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, Jochen Plumeyer wrote: In our case of photo geo tagging this is no issue I think. Please tell me if I'm wrong here. For photo geo-tagging the main problem is that you can set the camera time to a resolution of one minute, not one second, and the camera time will drift, probably inversely related to the purchase price. So some form of fiddling is needed to accurately place the photos, trying a few secs forward and back until they line up on the map with known features. So whether your GPS is UTC or GPS time is not a practical problem. The easy option is to take a photo of your GPS device with it displaying the time. You can then adjust the time offset from that. I suppose there might be a bit of lag between the GPS device receiving/calculating the time, and displaying it on screen, plus lag in the time taken for the camera to save the photo, which might be a few seconds. Though it shouldn't make a lot of difference in accuracy, unless you are taking photos while driving past at 50mph. Craig ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Underwater scuba map in KML
Hi, Nice map. im using the OpenStreetMap KML overlay to look at it on Google Earth. Regarding contours, if your plannng on using the map with an underwater GPS device. i would recommend using a marine charts map as an overlay, so to get your depth contours. Just as you would use a SRTM contour overlay for on land use. Obviously, you cant copy from that marine charts map, but of course, from entering in waypoints rembering what the point was. It helps. I dont know where there are depth contours available for the planet. It would be AWESOME to find some, so then they can be used with the Groundtruth program. if you have a source which is compatable, please to share. It would be great to get whatever contours are available. Also, i noticed that a few features didnt render in mapnik. the tag might be appropriate http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dwreck with the addition of layer=-1 then the addition of ele=-50 (as the default is meters) .. or whatever the actual depth is. IMO, Cheers, Sam P.S. the seamap project is part of this topic as this interesting :) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:17 AM, TimSC mapp...@sheerman-chase.org.ukwrote: Hi all, I was playing around exporting OSM to KML. I did this underwater map which is intended for scuba diving. Various points of interest and underwater guide ropes are shown. I used python to do the conversion. http://timsc.dev.openstreetmap.org/dev/leybourne.kmz I have used parts of the proposed tagging: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/scuba_diving I would be interested in any comments, for example what is the best way of storing and tagging depth contours in OSM or if anyone wants to buddy for underwater mapping in the UK (mainly southern UK is my preference). TimSC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
Anthony wrote: What about http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:area ? That key doesn't describe the area covered by a road that is linear in character - whenever a road could intuitively described as something that goes from here to there, area=yes likely isn't the right tag to use. Lines/cerbs/etc. are often obvious physical hints for linear character, but they don't need to be present for a road to be linear. highway=* + area=yes is for plazas and the like: Features that don't have a concept of direction. Instead, you can freely move from any point of the area to every other point (and are likely to use that ability to a certain degree). http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.077444lon=-82.548096zoom=18layers=B000FTF To me, these look like perfectly normal roads that should be primarily mapped as ways. If you want practical arguments: Way representation is more useful for - rendering street names (visible in your example) - supporting different zoom levels (also visible in your example) - routing - rendering at non-natural widths: a rendering might choose to determine road widths according to, say, importance, or traffic density, or whatever, which is hard to do if roads aren't represented as ways - rendering with additional features along the road, say, lines for cycle lanes, or dots for street lighting (with areas, along doesn't quite exist) - anything that has directional information, such as oneway roads Of course, road area mapping still serves a purpose (primarily high-detail, low-abstraction rendering). But detailed information like that should be mapped *in addition* to ways, maybe similar to waterway=riverbank. I don't think that there is an established tag, but any tag that /isn't/ highway=* (or anything else already in use) should work. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
Richard Weait typed: snip What is it about these streets that requires areas? Does this extend to your town and state as well? I think it is because I like to map with much detail. I like to map it 'as it really is'. That is not the only reason. Maybe it's how the map looks also in various renderers(mapnik or other renderers), which shows the streets as very big while in reality they are pretty small if seen from a long distance away. I'll give a link. The streets also overshadow some buildings, which I enjoy/like mapping at times. Can you give us a link to this area? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.64822lon=22.94897zoom=17layers=B000FTF Regards, Niklas -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] I ordered my first personal camera so I can do 'photomapping' or 'geotagging'
Hi, I own a cell phone which can take pictures, but it doesn't store pictures in exif format. After much research over time it seems I couldn't even add exif by hand to the pictures I took with it.(with the purpose to put the modification date in exif format in the picture by hand) Yesterday I ordered my first camera(Nikon Coolpix L19). Mostly with the purpose of taking photos while I have a gps along with me, to later geotag photos with josm and later use the pictures as sources for street names or Points of Interest. Does anyone have that camera? I was a bit unsure whether to buy it or if I should ask first here if anyone has it, but as I read it supports exif 2.2 and memory cards(SD) I'm familiar with I decided to buy it without asking/mentioning first. Just wanted to share. Niklas -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On 23 February 2010 06:41, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is because I like to map with much detail. I like to map it 'as it really is'. In reality you are only mapping an approximation, maps aren't supposed to replace aerial imagery they serve different purposes. That is not the only reason. Maybe it's how the map looks also in various renderers(mapnik or other renderers), which shows the streets as very big while in reality they are pretty small if seen from a long You will end up breaking routing etc if you don't also include a way, or have very very strange round about like routing which will depart greatly from your goal of mapping in detail as much as possible. I wasn't going to say anything because this topic has been done to death, but until things are sorted out one way or another tool wise you are going to make things very complicated for other people, and other people won't probably understand or appreciate your efforts and replace them with the more common way of doing things. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
Hi, Am Montag 22. Februar 2010 21:50:36 schrieb John Smith: You will end up breaking routing etc if you don't also include a way, Yes, that's right, have a look at http://osm.org/go/0MBdEXMHO- for example. Greetings, Carsten -- Hier ist mein öffentlicher GPG-Schlüssel: http://daswaldhorn.piranho.de/gpg.php = www.stopptdievorratsdatenspeicherung.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 3:50 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 23 February 2010 06:41, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is because I like to map with much detail. I like to map it 'as it really is'. In reality you are only mapping an approximation, maps aren't supposed to replace aerial imagery they serve different purposes. That is not the only reason. Maybe it's how the map looks also in various renderers(mapnik or other renderers), which shows the streets as very big while in reality they are pretty small if seen from a long You will end up breaking routing etc if you don't also include a way, or have very very strange round about like routing which will depart greatly from your goal of mapping in detail as much as possible. With traditional GIS, municipalities will often have both street centerlines and street polygons, with centerlines useful for routing and such purposes while polygons give level of detail desired for planning, engineering purposes, etc. I also see this done with hydrography (streams rivers). If OSM had street polygons in addition to lines, that would be fine, but not instead of lines. If both were mapped, is there a tag to tell Mapnik not to render the centerline? In the future, it would be neat for routing to work with polygons, especially for pedestrian routing (e.g. across plazas and open space). -Katie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Katie Filbert @filbertkm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: ...Way representation is more useful for ... - anything that has directional information, such as oneway roads Exactly. Mapping a way as an area is fine as long as you also represent *the path of travel*. detailed information like [area] should be mapped *in addition* to ways, maybe similar to waterway=riverbank. Yup. If you're interested in this, start another post on the tagging list! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Carsten Gerlach daswaldh...@gmx.de wrote: Yes, that's right, have a look at http://osm.org/go/0MBdEXMHO- for example. That looks great, and so simple... highway=* for the way, AND highway=* + area=yes for the area. Is this a solved problem, then? Any complaints with this approach (cause it looks damn pretty on mapnik, at least...) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On 23 February 2010 07:53, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Carsten Gerlach daswaldh...@gmx.de wrote: Yes, that's right, have a look at http://osm.org/go/0MBdEXMHO- for example. That looks great, and so simple... highway=* for the way, AND Until you zoom out even one level, then it starts becoming more and more useless for any kind of navigation. Is this a solved problem, then? Any complaints with this approach (cause it looks damn pretty on mapnik, at least...) Try zooming out... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
Roy Wallace wrote: On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Carsten Gerlach daswaldh...@gmx.de wrote: Yes, that's right, have a look at http://osm.org/go/0MBdEXMHO- for example. That looks great, and so simple... highway=* for the way, AND highway=* + area=yes for the area. I already used it a while ago, in a small fraction of my city, just to experiment a bit: http://osm.org/go/xZHrPUmuB-- Is this a solved problem, then? Any complaints with this approach (cause it looks damn pretty on mapnik, at least...) I remember someone complaining with me that routers not supporting highway=* + area=yes in the same relation with a normal highway=*, might get confused -- and that something like landuse=road would be better. I don't know which of the two to choose though. Kindly, David -- . ''`. Debian developer | http://wiki.debian.org/DavidPaleino : :' : Linuxer #334216 --|-- http://www.hanskalabs.net/ `. `'` GPG: 1392B174 | `- 2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On 23 February 2010 08:05, David Paleino da...@debian.org wrote: I remember someone complaining with me that routers not supporting highway=* + area=yes in the same relation with a normal highway=*, might get confused -- and that something like landuse=road would be better. Wouldn't landuse=road bleed colour between the way and the area? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Monday 22 February 2010 23:26:52, John Smith wrote: On 23 February 2010 08:05, David Paleino da...@debian.org wrote: I remember someone complaining with me that routers not supporting highway=* + area=yes in the same relation with a normal highway=*, might get confused -- and that something like landuse=road would be better. Wouldn't landuse=road bleed colour between the way and the area? If you noted the link I included in my mail, I haven't used it. I think landuse=road is semantically more correct than highway=* + area=yes (but this could be debatable too), but the drawback is that renderers have the burden of colouring landuse=road the same way of its way. If both are in a relation, it could probably be done, but I believe it'd take some effort. I personally think highway + area is more straightforward. My 2c, David -- . ''`. Debian developer | http://wiki.debian.org/DavidPaleino : :' : Linuxer #334216 --|-- http://www.hanskalabs.net/ `. `'` GPG: 1392B174 | `- 2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
2010/2/21 Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com: I live in a place where I feel the need to map some streets as areas. If I start a little of such mapping, will routing software get confused? Since I haven't seen it linked here yet, take a look at that area (both ways for routing and areas for the looks and the detail): http://osm.org/go/0MBdE4AA (Rossleben, Germany - not my work I should say.) Cheers Colin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Creating custom OSM sites using the Mapnik OSM plugin?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 13:43, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: Do people think this is a good idea? It's one of several possibilities that I'd like to work on, though I'd probably only do so if there's sufficient interest and/or I can't resolve the memory issues on my own site in other ways. I do! this will remove one layer of difficulties from the user wanting to render their own city/province. And i think that a one shot rendering, then uploading to the server would be something that will broaden the use of custom maps. Thus encourage people in experimenting with mapnik styles. Maybe leading to the creation of a style editor. I'll be one of your beta testers, if you need one! -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:11 AM, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: ...Way representation is more useful for ... - anything that has directional information, such as oneway roads Exactly. Mapping a way as an area is fine as long as you also represent *the path of travel*. What path of travel? There are many paths of travel, and generally none of them are properly represented by a line going through the middle of a roadway. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 5:30 PM, David Paleino da...@debian.org wrote: On Monday 22 February 2010 23:26:52, John Smith wrote: On 23 February 2010 08:05, David Paleino da...@debian.org wrote: I remember someone complaining with me that routers not supporting highway=* + area=yes in the same relation with a normal highway=*, might get confused -- and that something like landuse=road would be better. Wouldn't landuse=road bleed colour between the way and the area? If you noted the link I included in my mail, I haven't used it. I think landuse=road is semantically more correct than highway=* + area=yes (but this could be debatable too), but the drawback is that renderers have the burden of colouring landuse=road the same way of its way. If both are in a relation, it could probably be done, but I believe it'd take some effort. Why does the landuse have to be the same color as the way? I'm pretty sure I'd prefer it to be a different color by default. As for semantical correctness, I think that depends on the road. For roads without any lines, where people are allowed to drive as they please subject to a standard rule like keep right except to pass, I'd say the area is more semantically correct. In most standard cases, though, where a road is lined, simply mapping it as an area is inadequate. In any case, I'd say landuse=highway would be better than landuse=road, and that should represent the entire right of way. If you want *=road, amenity=road or man_made=road would be more appropriate. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:05 AM, David Paleino da...@debian.org wrote: Is this a solved problem, then? Any complaints with this approach (cause it looks damn pretty on mapnik, at least...) I remember someone complaining with me that routers not supporting highway=* + area=yes in the same relation with a normal highway=*, might get confused -- and that something like landuse=road would be better. I don't know which of the two to choose though. Hmm. I prefer highway=* + area=yes, as IMHO the area is an integral feature of the road itself - not just a feature of the land on which the road sits. You could argue either way, though. As for routers getting confused, there are a couple of options: 1) the router can ignore all highway=* + area=yes areas (this also rules out routing across open areas, but might be suitable for car routers) 2) the router can ignore highway=* + area=yes areas IF there is also a corresponding highway=* WAY. This requires a relation to indicate which area corresponds to which way. I think type=area, role=center/role=area would work [1]. Other tags describing the road could then go on the relation, rather than the way and/or area. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Exactly. Mapping a way as an area is fine as long as you also represent *the path of travel*. What path of travel? There are many paths of travel, and generally none of them are properly represented by a line going through the middle of a roadway. By path of travel, I mean what is currently represented as a highway=* way in the OSM database. Tobias already gave 6 reasons why this is important. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
I was initially impressed with the German example of area mapping but I have had a change of heart. While an interesting experiment, and relatively well implemented in the small test area, I just don't think area mapping of ordinary roads makes sense. To do area mapping without also doing the traditional OSM vector mapping of those roads just seems like low-grade vandalism to me. Why would a mapper choose to say, I'm going to make a really detailed representation of road width and corner radii, that looks great on one renderer at one zoom level, and I just don't care that it breaks routing, breaks street names, and takes my time away from mapping other roads, or addresses, or crosswalks. I don't get it. It seems a very limited view of the map for one specific, perhaps selfish implementation. I expect to find wide variation in what individual mappers find worthy of their mapping time. When you consider that we have a map that we can improve with roads, intersection, interchanges, rivers and other waterways, cycle and multi-use paths, snowmobile trails, kayak routes, canoe portages, trees, steps, power pylons and lines, turn restrictions, businesses, buildings, zoos with penguin enclosures, street lighting, fire hydrants, and so many other things *deep breath*. Some will map half of these things, and many will map a much smaller subset. I understand why some mappers do cycle trails and others do coffee shops and bowling alleys. How much does the width of one road, plus the radius of the curb at the junction really add to the map? And this is all while ignoring so many other features. And as far as I can tell, these appeals to show reality more accurately extend only as far as the paved driving surface. Even the curbs are ignored. No curb:height or curb:width? Not even any indication of curb ramps, crosswalks, or audible crossing assistance? The focus is just on this idea that the curb has a radius. Students at the University of Maryland have even built a pedestrian routing system that allows choosing sloped curbs, and avoids steep inclines. http://seamster.cs.umd.edu:8090/map/index.html# Check the data, they don't bother with area-mapped roads. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.987313lon=-76.941263zoom=18layers=B000FTTT Having said all of this, and this email is too long to read, corners with curb radii can look nice. Why not put energy into allowing a renderer to draw the radius for you? Surely this can be abstracted in a way that creates a sensible corner for a large class of general intersections? Why tag and draw every blade of grass, when we can create a polygon of natural=grass? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On 23 February 2010 14:10, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I was initially impressed with the German example of area mapping but I have had a change of heart. While an interesting experiment, and relatively well implemented in the small test area, I just don't think area mapping of ordinary roads makes sense. The question I've come to conclude is this: What harm does it do to the integrity of the map data? The only harm is if there is no way as well, or if people start joing roads to nature strips and making it a complete PITA to edit them independently of each other in future. At z18 the correct shape of the area will show if it's wider than the way, and at other zoom levels the normal way will take precedent as things get scaled etc. As Roy said before routing software shouldn't try to route along areas, at the same time the area should be rendered in such a way that doesn't bleed colour. This could be done simply by tagging the area the same as the way, or the more complicated method pre-processing method David mentioned. Also what ever is used should be tagged in such a way that people that don't want areas showing can disable them from rendering, this way everyone will be happy. Also I'd only tag the way not the area with the name so that people only wanting the way will still get things to render properly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Exactly. Mapping a way as an area is fine as long as you also represent *the path of travel*. What path of travel? There are many paths of travel, and generally none of them are properly represented by a line going through the middle of a roadway. By path of travel, I mean what is currently represented as a highway=* way in the OSM database. Tobias already gave 6 reasons why this is important. I only found one (the one about directional information, in the case of a one-way road) to be correct. The other 5 were complaints about how the current renderers work. Anyway, I do think there is one major problem with mapping highways as areas right now. It's too time consuming. Other than that, I think it's the way of the future - I'm just not sure how long it's going to be for that future to arrive. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
Colin Marquardt wrote: 2010/2/21 Niklas Cholmkvisttowards...@gmail.com: I live in a place where I feel the need to map some streets as areas. If I start a little of such mapping, will routing software get confused? Since I haven't seen it linked here yet, take a look at that area (both ways for routing and areas for the looks and the detail): http://osm.org/go/0MBdE4AA (Rossleben, Germany - not my work I should say.) It has been said many times now. We need to be ABLE to map both levels of details. The current consensus does seem to support adding the fine area detail to a nominal routing way, but there are still many holes where intersections between foot, bike and vehicle traffic needs a more complex 'tree' of ways, which some people still think are best 'mapped' by more complex tagging on a single way. There is currently no consensus on some of the break points between single complexly tagged way, and set of linked ways with much simpler generic tags. Personally I feel ALL should coexist, with some logic being able to be applied to low level fine detail, which is simply complemented by alternate tags on a core way at lower zoom levels. When zooming in, a '4 lane road' should become 4 individual ways before coming an area with fine detail of lane markings, hard shoulder, and central reservation. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On 23 February 2010 16:22, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I only found one (the one about directional information, in the case of a one-way road) to be correct. The other 5 were complaints about how the current renderers work. Anyway, I do think there is one major problem with mapping highways as areas right now. It's too time consuming. Other than that, I think it's the way of the future - I'm just not sure how long it's going to be for that future to arrive. Both these points are in common, ideally it would be nice to be able to micro mapping lanes, not just areas a road way covers yet we still lack tools to do this. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:30 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 23 February 2010 16:22, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I only found one (the one about directional information, in the case of a one-way road) to be correct. The other 5 were complaints about how the current renderers work. Anyway, I do think there is one major problem with mapping highways as areas right now. It's too time consuming. Other than that, I think it's the way of the future - I'm just not sure how long it's going to be for that future to arrive. Both these points are in common, ideally it would be nice to be able to micro mapping lanes, not just areas a road way covers yet we still lack tools to do this. We've got all the tools we need - nodes and relations. With them we can build anything else we want. I think an acceptable method of micro mapping lanes will come as soon as someone makes a renderer that renders one of the myriad of possible solutions. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On 23 February 2010 16:43, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: We've got all the tools we need - nodes and relations. With them we can build anything else we want. I'm sure people said the same thing about ways and nodes, why did we need relations? It has the potential to reduce redundent information and make life easier for mapping tool creators and mapping route software. I think an acceptable method of micro mapping lanes will come as soon as someone makes a renderer that renders one of the myriad of possible solutions. Micro mapping isn't just for rendering, in fact it has far bigger applications in the routing side of things, eg In 500m merge into the right lane etc, a lot of this is just meta information and doesn't need to be mapped visually to the nth degree. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:49 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 23 February 2010 16:43, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: We've got all the tools we need - nodes and relations. With them we can build anything else we want. I'm sure people said the same thing about ways and nodes, Perhaps they did, but they would be wrong. why did we need relations? Relations are recursive - they can contain other relations. Ways can only contain nodes. I think an acceptable method of micro mapping lanes will come as soon as someone makes a renderer that renders one of the myriad of possible solutions. Micro mapping isn't just for rendering, in fact it has far bigger applications in the routing side of things, eg In 500m merge into the right lane etc, a lot of this is just meta information and doesn't need to be mapped visually to the nth degree. True, but I don't think people will accept a micro-mapping solution until they can see it. It's too abstract for most people to picture in their minds. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping streets as areas - can I do it now?
On 23 February 2010 17:30, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Perhaps they did, but they would be wrong. Because of hindsight? Relations are recursive - they can contain other relations. Ways can only contain nodes. You missed the point, I'm just giving examples to show that people who think everything we need, we already have at our disposal, the suggestions on this I've made in the past require changes to database tables etc to work, rather than trying to shoe horn existing tools to do something they aren't very well suited for. True, but I don't think people will accept a micro-mapping solution until they can see it. It's too abstract for most people to picture in their minds. And that's my exact point, people pushing areas don't seem to be able to look beyond the tools currently available. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 3Dshapes
Maar de meest pragmatische oplossing is om je $vervoermiddel te pakken en wat tijd te spenderen aan het doorkruisen van je omgeving. Als je dit een aantal keer en op verschillende dagen doet, en je bekijkt dan al je traces, ben je redelijk in staat om te zeggen wat er fout en goed gepositioneerd is. Ik zal idd maar weer beginnen met alles opnieuw te doorkruisen. Bedankt voor de reacties. Peter ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 3Dshapes
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, Peter Peterse wrote: Maar de meest pragmatische oplossing is om je $vervoermiddel te pakken en wat tijd te spenderen aan het doorkruisen van je omgeving. Als je dit een aantal keer en op verschillende dagen doet, en je bekijkt dan al je traces, ben je redelijk in staat om te zeggen wat er fout en goed gepositioneerd is. Ik zal idd maar weer beginnen met alles opnieuw te doorkruisen. Je kunt uiteraard ook je oude traces er over heen leggen, of de ruwe gpx data er mee vergelijken. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] 3Dshapes
Peter Peterse wrote: Ik zal idd maar weer beginnen met alles opnieuw te doorkruisen. Alles hoeft natuurlijk ook niet. Een aantal trajecten her en der lijkt me voldoende voor een eerste blik? -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] welkoms email
Hoe ziet tegenwoordig de welkoms email eruit ? staat er een verwijzing naar alle communicatie platformen in ? (irc/forum/maillinglist ?) Groeten Rob ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] welkoms email
Zo: Welcome to the %(real_name)s...@%(host_name)s mailing list! %(welcome)s To post to this list, send your email to: %(emailaddr)s General information about the mailing list is at: %(listinfo_url)s If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: %(optionsurl)s %(umbrella)s You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: %(real_name)s-requ...@%(host_name)s with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: %(password)s Normally, Mailman will remind you of your %(host_name)s mailing list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. Volgens mij is dat gewoonweg mailman-default. Ik sta open voor suggesties voor verbetering. Martijn van Exel +++ m...@rtijn.org Laziness – Impatience – Hubris http://schaaltreinen.nl twitter: mvexel skype: mvexel flickr: rhodes On Feb 22, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Rob wrote: Hoe ziet tegenwoordig de welkoms email eruit ? staat er een verwijzing naar alle communicatie platformen in ? (irc/forum/maillinglist ?) Groeten Rob ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 18:20 +1000, John Smith wrote: On 22 February 2010 17:56, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure but being traced and annotated makes it much *easier* for people to retrieve information about your private property (e.g. through an API call). Yes, I can really see that happening... Agreed. A water supply company could be interested to know how many pools are in an area to know what areas might have higher demand during filling season. But, a pool cleaning business in the future might search on the map to find areas with potential customers, and be able to directly advertise to them by matching pool locations to street addresses. I can see both sides, but am interested in others opinions. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On 22 February 2010 19:07, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: A water supply company could be interested to know how many pools are in an area to know what areas might have higher demand during filling season. But, a pool cleaning business in the future might search on the map to find areas with potential customers, and be able to directly advertise to them by matching pool locations to street addresses. So what you're say is, we shouldn't do street addressing, because people can misuse it for marketing purposes? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 19:10 +1000, John Smith wrote: On 22 February 2010 19:07, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: A water supply company could be interested to know how many pools are in an area to know what areas might have higher demand during filling season. But, a pool cleaning business in the future might search on the map to find areas with potential customers, and be able to directly advertise to them by matching pool locations to street addresses. So what you're say is, we shouldn't do street addressing, because people can misuse it for marketing purposes? No, what Im say(ing) is, Im unsure if theres a privacy issue, and asking for others opinions or if theres any precedents to follow (other than the court cases brought against google for invasion of privacy). If I was saying we shouldnt be doing street addressing, why would I have said 'I can see both sides, but am interested in others opinions'? David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On 22 February 2010 19:31, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: No, what Im say(ing) is, Im unsure if theres a privacy issue, and asking for others opinions or if theres any precedents to follow (other than the court cases brought against google for invasion of privacy). I really can't see a privacy issue here, and I'm all for defending ones privacy rights, however the battle is lost long before OSM comes on the scene because the aerial and satellie imagery companies are divulging a LOT more than simple vector data could ever do. On the other hand this could be a valuable resource for emergency services when bush fires occur, along with other water course areas. If I was saying we shouldnt be doing street addressing, why would I have said 'I can see both sides, but am interested in others opinions'? You can see if a pool exists or not on aerial imagery, however without street addressing you can't post them advertising about it :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On 22 February 2010 19:43, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I'm concerned about marking what are actual terrorist targets (not the media frenzy type terrorists who are at airports) telephone exchange, communications tower, power lines things not usually well mapped in commercial offerings but which if destroyed cause havoc without large numbers of fatalities Who needs terrorists when you have government projects which keeps digging up Optus cables and causing state wide outages. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Pools (Was: tennis court land)
On 22 February 2010 19:28, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Aerial imagery doesnt normally have a street map overlayed, and when it does, just ask google if theres any privacy issues when it comes to high detail aerial photos. The only trouble google has gotten into is with street view driving past no trespassing signs, I doubt there is anything anyone can do about sat imagery except the US govt, and they limit the resolution to 50cm per pixel already. Ive always had an interest in marking these, but also understand the privacy issue. I'm still having problems seeing how OSM would make any privacy issues that doesn't already exist due to aerial/sat imagery... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:18 PM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: I suppose it's more popular than when I first walked it - didn't see anyone for a couple of days. A friend did a winter trip around that time and didn't encounter anyone else at all. Yeah, during peak season, there's something like 35 allocated places per day. What model GPS have you got? Garmin Oregon 550. The Garmin unit uses an rolling average of GPS-derived altitude to dynamically recalibrate. You then get the best of both worlds. The GPS-derived figure is accurate over a long time in the same position. The barometer is very accurate short term, but suffers in the long term unless recalibrated. Ah. What is GPS-derived altitude though, exactly - does it rely on a model of the earth's surface, or is it effectively computing the distance from the satellites? Anyway, my recorded elevation for Mt Ossa is 1613m, and the Acropolis is 1477m. Wikipedia gives Mt Ossa as 1614, and the Acropolis as 1481m. Maybe this method is more accurate than I was expecting... OTOH, I'm still not convinced that all this is necessary. Surely using figures from an authoritative source would serve everyone a lot better... Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Ive been wondering about the idea of mapping private pools in the same way as private tennis courts have been marked, but been worried about some issues, particularly privacy. With the mapping of tennis courts taking place, is there any reason to not start mapping out private pools in the suburbs? Is there any existing tagging for this? Personally I don't think it's reasonable to map anything on a residential property, particularly not anything that can't be seen from the street. I'm not sure why lakeboy did all this, but my preference would be to tag it these private tennis courts in such a way that they won't render in mapnik etc. It's not as though they're useful landmarks or anything. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Personally I don't think it's reasonable to map anything on a residential property I wonder if any lawyer/privacy expert/etc. has written on this subject before... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
Well the story is, I just happened to be drawing roads in Portsea one day and I thought it would be a bit of a laugh to show off how the rich holidaymakers spend their time! People say Portsea has a tennis culture, now the map proves it! I am curious to know if Portsea has the highest concerntration of private tennis courts in the world. Thats what I like about OSM. You have the freedom to map whatever you want. On 23/02/2010, at 8:20 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Ive been wondering about the idea of mapping private pools in the same way as private tennis courts have been marked, but been worried about some issues, particularly privacy. With the mapping of tennis courts taking place, is there any reason to not start mapping out private pools in the suburbs? Is there any existing tagging for this? Personally I don't think it's reasonable to map anything on a residential property, particularly not anything that can't be seen from the street. I'm not sure why lakeboy did all this, but my preference would be to tag it these private tennis courts in such a way that they won't render in mapnik etc. It's not as though they're useful landmarks or anything. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On 23 February 2010 07:20, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Personally I don't think it's reasonable to map anything on a residential property, particularly not anything that can't be seen from the street. I'm not sure why lakeboy did all this, but my preference would be to tag it these private tennis courts in such a way that they won't render in mapnik etc. It's not as though they're useful landmarks or anything. Entire gated communities are private residential property, and I think it's entirely appropriate to map the road ways and foot ways inside these areas from aerial imagery, however I discourage people that don't have permission to be there from doing it in person. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 08:20 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: Personally I don't think it's reasonable to map anything on a residential property, particularly not anything that can't be seen from the street. Because, people in the air could be helped by being able to reference pools, power lines or tennis courts? Everyone using OSM isnt automatically at street-level. I imagine for example a farmer who owns a large property would be interested to know the exact location of the powerline towers on their block, to help plan things like irrigation or where to put crops. Ive started mapping a few large pools and powerlines anyway, so Ill see what comes of it. My basic rule has been if the pool is visible from the air, Ill map it. Some people have pools under canopys and so on, but as these arent much use for either navigation or firefighting I havent bothered to map them. I'm not sure why lakeboy did all this, but my preference would be to tag it these private tennis courts in such a way that they won't render in mapnik etc. 'Tagging for the renderer' comes to mind here. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Mon, 2010-02-22 at 20:43 +1100, Liz wrote: I'm concerned about marking what are actual terrorist targets (not the media frenzy type terrorists who are at airports) telephone exchange, communications tower, power lines things not usually well mapped in commercial offerings but which if destroyed cause havoc without large numbers of fatalities Havent you heard the new technique? These days the PR arm of the media-terrorists simply have to say 'were planning something at airport xyz' and the government machine will kick into action and cause chaos at the airport (or stadium or whatever), without anyone even having to visit a target site. Maybe they might use OSM to find the biggest airport or airport closest to a major highway, so they can inconvenience more people or something. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Overland Track added
Steve Bennett wrote: Garmin Oregon 550. I see that's got a barometric altimeter too. Very good. Ah. What is GPS-derived altitude though, exactly - does it rely on a model of the earth's surface, or is it effectively computing the distance from the satellites? Purely from satellites, definitely. Others on the list are likely much more up to speed with the technicalities. Anyway, my recorded elevation for Mt Ossa is 1613m, and the Acropolis is 1477m. Wikipedia gives Mt Ossa as 1614, and the Acropolis as 1481m. Maybe this method is more accurate than I was expecting... OTOH, I'm still not convinced that all this is necessary. Surely using figures from an authoritative source would serve everyone a lot better... Yes, the figure from a proper survey should have an accuracy of a few centimetres. One of my many jobs (back in the 70s) was a chainman (surveyor's assistant). With modern electronic gear, I believe there's no such job any more. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On 23 February 2010 12:50, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Havent you heard the new technique? These days the PR arm of the media-terrorists simply have to say 'were planning something at airport xyz' and the government machine will kick into action and cause chaos at the airport (or stadium or whatever), without anyone even having to visit a target site. The US govt doesn't need no stinking terrorists to make stuff up like that, they just pay media firms to detect secret messages in video footage that doesn't exist :) http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/25/0019250 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
Heh, yeah, I assumed it was something like that. It's ok to have the data in there, I guess, but I don't think it should render on the default mapnik. If for no other reason than we want *public* tennis courts to be visible, and all those private ones just create a lot of noise. Maybe not an urgent issue atm though. Steve On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Luke Woolley lswool...@gmail.com wrote: Well the story is, I just happened to be drawing roads in Portsea one day and I thought it would be a bit of a laugh to show off how the rich holidaymakers spend their time! People say Portsea has a tennis culture, now the map proves it! I am curious to know if Portsea has the highest concerntration of private tennis courts in the world. Thats what I like about OSM. You have the freedom to map whatever you want. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Personally I don't think it's reasonable to map anything on a residential property What about 1) The number on the letter box 2) A power pole that happens to be present on a private block 3) The roofline (as in a building object) 4) Standing water - as a help for emergency services or refuge in case of fire 5) A beware of the dog sign 6) A fire bunker 7) A safe house sign That's what you get when you misquote someone. Not sure if you did it deliberately, but the second half of my sentence focused my point on stuff that can't be seen from the street. Maybe you're right about things that serve particular purposes in emergencies, but I think mapping private swimming pools is pretty borderline. Yeah, perhaps there's an argument for a there is a source of water for firefighting here tag, but you don't need to map its precise location and shape for that. That feels like a privacy violation. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: ... I don't think it should render on the default mapnik. If for no other reason than we want *public* tennis courts to be visible, and all those private ones just create a lot of noise. Just add access=private (or access=unknown, if unknown) as applicable. A similar issue arises for amenity=parking - the blue P is hidden on mapnik if access is specified to be something other than public. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tennis court land
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Luke Woolley lswool...@gmail.com wrote: Mainly because I normally give landuses a -3 layer and for things that sit just above or directly on the ground I give the next layer up. Probably doesn't need it, but it will do no harm being there. Ah, I had wondered why people did that. Anyway, don't - that's not what the layer tag is for. It's specifically for describing the vertical stacking in otherwise ambiguous situations (two overpasses crossing each other, for instance). Land use is not above or below other tags, so it's a pointless abuse of the tag to use it that way. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Hiking tracks: foot=yes or foot=designated?
Hi all, The Aus tagging guidelines suggest using highway=path foot=yes: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines But surely foot=designated is the correct tag, particularly for tracks which explicitly ban every other mode of transport. However I should point out that highway=path foot=designated is (according to mapnik at least) equivalent to highway=footway which it says not to use... Also, we don't seem to have any guidelines on the walking route networks, so I've started something here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Bush_Walking_and_Cycling_Tracks Not too important yet, but it would certainly be good to get all walking tracks using route relations, and to be roughly consistent about what is IWN/NWN/RWN/LWN. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hiking tracks: foot=yes or foot=designated?
On 23 February 2010 17:12, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: But surely foot=designated is the correct tag, particularly for tracks which explicitly ban every other mode of transport. However I should point out that highway=path foot=designated is (according to mapnik at least) equivalent to highway=footway which it says not to use... There is a few zealots, mostly in the euro-centric area of the world that think highway=footway isn't good enough because it doesn't indicate the legal standing. However highway=path proposal attempted to make highway=footway redundent, but it was voted against. In the mean time people have been running about cleaning up wiki references, which most didn't agree to in the first place. foot=designated just means that's the primary purpose, not that everything else is disallowed, in this case I usually tag highway=footway and the implication is bikes etc are disallowed. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Lei sobre o acesso aos dados criados por órgãos públicos
LEI Nº 11.111, DE 5 DE MAIO DE 2005. XXXIII - todos têm direito a receber dos órgãos públicos informações de seu interesse particular, ou de interesse coletivo ou geral, que serão prestadas no prazo da lei, sob pena de responsabilidade, ressalvadas aquelas cujo sigilo seja imprescindível à segurança da sociedade e do Estado; (Regulamento) http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/_Ato2004-2006/2005/Lei/L1.htm Isso significa que eu posso importar dados de sistemas como o Cadlog da Prefeitura do Rio [1] ignorando o copyright-todos-os-direitos-reservados? O que vocês acham? []s 1: http://portalgeo.rio.rj.gov.br/website/cadlog/viewer.htm ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Werte fuer XY:urban XY:rural etc.
Moin, Doru Julian Bugariu schrieb: Danke, aber ich habe mich leider ein bischen falsch ausgedrueckt: ich suche die entsprechenden Geschwindigkeiten fuer XY:urban/rural, etc. Fuer Deutschland sind diese klar, fuer andere Laender leider nicht. Nicht direkt Tabelle, aber hilft http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Maxspeed da evtl. ein wenig weiter? Ich versuche gerade meiner Applikation diese Werte beizubringen und suche eben nach solch einer Liste mit Geschwindigkeiten. :-) Schön. :-) Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassensuche in der Karte
Alexander Matheisen alexandermathei...@ish.de wrote: Wofür gibt es Webstandarts, wenn man es doch immer an jeden Browser anpassen muss? s/art/ard/g Some Browsers are more Standard than others :) Das Problem mit IE Support sind IMO weniger dessen Eigenarten sondern es ist das Fehlen effizienter Debugging Tools wie Firebug mit dessen Hilfe man solche Fehler ja schnell gefunden hätte. Ich hatte das ja schon mal geschrieben. Die Standardkompatibilität von IE ist seit IE6 erheblich besser geworden. Gruss Sven -- Trotz der zunehmenden Verbreitung von Linux erfreut sich der Bär, und - dank Knut - insbesondere der Eisbär, deutlich größerer Beliebtheit als der Pinguin. (Gefunden bei http://telepolis.de/) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Wanderzeichen /-markierungen - Symbole
NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote: Mit dem vor kurzem hinzugekommenen Symbol Grünes Dreieck auf der Spitze (green_triangle_turned) ließe sich die Weintraube vermutlich gut annähern, das könntest Du dahingehend ändern. Apropos Wanderwegesymbole. Auf der Horizont Outdoor hatte sich jemand beschwert, dass der Mittelweg im Schwarzwald (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelweg_%28Fernwanderstrecke%29) ein falsches Symbol hätte nämlich das vom Westweg (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westweg)! Das ist natürlich etwas uncool, denn beide Wege sind in der selben Gegend. Kann man das nicht irgendwie simulieren in dem man da zusätzlich zum Symbol ein I oder l oder gar ein | reinzeichnet? Gruss Sven -- Das ist halt der Unterschied: Unix ist ein Betriebssystem mit Tradition, die anderen sind einfach von sich aus unlogisch. (Anselm Lingnau in de.comp.os.unix.discussion) /me ist gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ im WWW ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Tags in Abhängigkeit von der Zeit
Hallo, für einen Vortrag brauche ich die Entwicklung verschiedener Tags in Abhängigkeit von der Zeit, um diese dann grafisch darstellen zu können. Wo könnte ich mir diese Daten besorgen bzw. wie könnte ich sie gewinnen? Tagwatch bietet ja immer nur den aktuellen Bestand, ohne die historischen Daten zu behalten. Danke Gruß, Falk ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Wanderzeichen /-markierungen - Symbole
Sven Geggus wrote: Kann man das nicht irgendwie simulieren in dem man da zusätzlich zum Symbol ein I oder l oder gar ein | reinzeichnet? Nichts leichter als das. :-) Wird aber erst sichtbar, wenn ich meine DB wieder am Laufen habe. bye Nop -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Neue-Wanderzeichen-markierungen-Symbole-tp4606847p4611270.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] (NIcht-)Raucherbereiche mappen
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: mal ne Frage: die üblichen Raucherbereiche auf deutschen Bahnhöfen: wie würde ich die nach diesem Schema taggen? Diese gelben Zonen, die entweder innen oder aussen, normalerweise aber nicht abgetrennt (also nicht separated) sind. Interessante Frage. Ich verstehe separated so, daß es ausgewiesene Bereiche sowohl für Raucher als auch Nichtraucher gibt, daß also beide Gruppen voneinander getrennt (separated) sind. Das muß m.E. nicht unbedingt bedeuten, daß es eine Wand oder so gibt. Ich finde es auch nicht allzuwichtig, wie die Trennung stattfindet, ob über Glaswände, extra Räume oder über ein ausgeklügeltes Lüftungssystem. Sonst ist man irgendwann bei der Frage, ob eine manchmal offenstehende Tür zu einem Raucherraum noch eine Trennung darstellt oder nicht. Daher würde ich denken, daß eine der beiden folgenden Möglichkeiten sinnvoll sein könnten: Beispiel: Es gibt Raucherzonen, aber nur draußen auf den Bahnsteigen. 1) Den Bahnhof taggen mit smoking=no smoking:outside=separated -- Generell ist Rauchen verboten, aber draußen gibt es getrennte Bereiche zum Rauchen. (Falls auch drinnen Raucherzonen existieren, dann eben auch smoking=separated taggen.) 2) Vielleicht könnte man auch, falls der Bahnsteig als Fläche gemappt ist, dort eine Area einzeichnen und diese mit smoking:outside=yes taggen. Bin mir aber selbst noch nicht sicher, ob das sinnvoll ist. Möglicherweise wäre es dann sogar sinnvoll, zusätzlich noch einmal die unter 1) genannten tags an den Bahnhof zu vergeben. Grüße, Philipp -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/NIcht-Raucherbereiche-mappen-tp4588673p4611292.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tags in Abhängigkeit von der Zeit
Hallo, für einen Vortrag brauche ich die Entwicklung verschiedener Tags in Abhängigkeit von der Zeit, um diese dann grafisch darstellen zu können. bis wann bräuchtest Du die Daten denn? Wo könnte ich mir diese Daten besorgen bzw. wie könnte ich sie gewinnen? Es gibt einen Export der gesamten Geschichte aller OSM-Elemente[1] den Du benutzen könntest. Problem daran ist, dass die Daten nicht in chronologischer Reihenfolge sind sondern erst nach Elementen sortiert (Nodes, Ways und Relations) dann nach Id und dann nach Version. Es kommt auch ein bißchen auf die Tags an, die Du analysieren möchtest. Gruß, Lars [1] http://planet.openstreetmap.org/full-experimental/ ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rendern von Seezeichen und Editor
Hallo Arne, OpenSeaMap misst sich an den internationalen Vektor-Seekarten. (von deren Qualität wir noch weit entfernt sind :-) und die wir auch gar nicht ersetzen wollen) Wir haben uns entschieden, nautische Information so zu erfassen und darzustellen, dass sie für den Seemann möglichst nützlich sind. Dazu gehört u.a.: - internationaler Standard (Daten und Darstellung) - GUI zum möglichst simplen korrekten Erfassen der Daten - nur vollständige Information wird gerendert Dabei gehen wir schrittweise vor (je nach Kapazität der Programmierer): Zuerst die Tonnen, dann die Häfen, dann die Leuchtfeuer, etc. Sonderzeichen, Binnenwasserstrassen, etc folgen später. Nicht-eindeutige Daten gefährden Schiff und Besatzung. Beispiel: Wenn irgendwo in Russland ein bräunliches Benzinfass in einer Einfahrt schwimmt, dann werden wir das auf der Karte nur anzeigen, wenn einwandfrei aus den Daten hervorgeht, ob das eine Tonne ist, die eine Fahrwasserbegrenzung bb oder stb bezeichnet, oder ob das eine Untiefentonne mit Topzeichen N|E|S|W oder eine Einzelgefahr ist. Denn nur wenn das was der Seemann vor Ort zu sehen bekommt, auch mit dem was er in der Karte sieht eindeutig übereinstimmt, kann er verantwortungsvoll seine Entscheidungen danach richten. Wenn da ein rostiges Benzinfass von den einheimischen Fischern über dem gefährlichen Riff angebracht wurde, dann vermerken wir das im Hafenhandbuch unter Ansteuerung. Dort kann dann auch beschrieben werden, ob östlich vom Fass die Wassertiefe nur 1.2m beträgt, aber 2m westlich Schiffe mit 2,5m Tiefgang problemlos fahren können (oder so). Die OSM-*Datenbank* sollte aber an sich in der Lage sein, auch temporären Zustände wiederzugeben Das kann die OSM-DB. Bei OpenSeaMap steht aber die Darstellung normkonformer Daten im Vordergrund. Entsprechend arbeiten auch die Editoren. sich bei Tonnen also auf Sollpositionen und den Ursprungszustand (mit intakten Toppzeichen etc.) zu beschränken, wäre vorerst sinnvoll. :-) Gruss, Markus PS: die üblichen JOSM-Vorlagen können die komplexen Regeln der Seezeichen nicht abbilden, und bei der Eingabe auch nicht prüfen. Deshalb wurden die beiden Editoren geschaffen. Damit auch Nicht-OSMer (oder OSMer ohne nautische Erfahrung) simpel und korrekt Daten eingeben können. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rendern von Seezeichen und Editor
Hallo Christian, [...] Wenn das System wirklich so zwingend ist dann reicht als Tag ja eigentlich cardianl_south? Eigentlich impliziert das Zeichen ja dann schon alles oder? Damit ein Kardinalzeichen dargestellt wird benötigst du nach unserem Schema 2 Schlüssel: * seamark:type=buoy_cardinal + seamark:buoy_cardinal:category=south alles weitere sind ergänzende Beschreibungen und werden nicht zwingend benötigt. Was aber wenn irgendwelche Bojenleger aus Maputo das dann eben doch anders gemacht haben? Nun ja, vielleicht reicht es für diesen (sicherlich seltnen) Spezialfall dann auch händisch das abweichende Feuer in die Datenbank einzutragen. Es wird immer Sonderfälle geben, die nicht mit der GUI einstellbar sind. Hier für müssten die Schlüssel händisch mit JOSM bzw später einmal in einem spezial Modus mit dem Online-Editor eingetragen werden. Wichtig ist, dass der Online- Editor diese Schlüssel erkennt und den Benutzer warnt, dass hier etwas vorhanden ist, damit diese Werte nicht aus versehen wieder gelöscht oder überschrieben werden. [...] Das mit dem festen Topzeichen im Lateralsystem ist mir bekannt. Hier wäre aber gerade wegen der IALA A und B Regionen eine weitere Aufspaltung der Tags IMHO besser geeignet. Warum im Editor Steuer- und Backbord extra mit Farben verknüpfen? Das hat zur Folge das der Editor wie aktuell der Fall eben nur für eine IALA- Region funktioniert. Im Editor ist die IALA-Region auswählbar. Zur Zeit leider nur A, B wird demnächst folgen. Zur Zeit ist mir die Stabilität noch wichtiger. Wenn ich die Farbe frei wählen kann dann muß ich als Mapper erst mal gar nix über IALAs wissen, Sondern kann Otto Normalmapper eben die rote Tonne von der Butterfahrt einfach eintragen. Wie schon gesagt, die Daten müssen am Anfang ja nicht perfekt sein. Der nächste OSeaM Segler kommt dann nächstes Jahr dran vorbei, freut sich daß da schon rudimentäre Daten da sind und kann dann was verbessern. Im Idealfall sollte es auch so möglich sein ohne großes Wissen ein Seezeichen einzutragen. Dadurch, dass ich lediglich sagen muss die Tonne hat ein Topzeichen, muss ich keine speziellen Kenntnisse über die Formen haben. [...] Doch, die Farben sind fest vorgeben, siehe die Antwort von Falk. Die Farbe beschreibt die Bedeutung der Tonne. Wenn du an eine Ampel mit grünen, blauen und weißen Licht kommen würdest, hätte diese ja auch ihre eigentliche Funktion verloren. Du weist nicht wie du dich bei blauen Licht verhalten sollst.Das Topzeichen verdeutlicht durch seine Form noch einmal die Funktion der Tonne. So wie bei einer Ampel das rote Licht immer oben ist. Dies ist sehr hilfreich, wenn du z.B. im Dichten Nebel die Farbe nicht erkennen kannst. OK, ist schon klar, daß die Tonnen in Ihrer Grundform schon sehr vorgegeben sind. Aber ist das wirklich immer so? Siehe IALA B, siehe irgendwelche Tonnen in St. Petersburg die aus irgendwelchen Kanistern gebastelt sind etc. Gerade da kann OSM seine Stärken doch ausspielen. Wie wäre es mit einem Symbol für Freaktonnen. Dies wird es auf jeden Fall in absehbarer Zeit geben. Auch ein Symbol für Tonnen welche einfach sehr unvollständig getaggt sind wäre IMHO sinnvoll (also Tonnen welche nur seamark=buoy haben). So ist der Butterfahrtmapper eben nicht versucht Tags zu erfinden, nur daß er seine Tonne dann auch dargestellt bekommt. Auch solche Kartensymbole sind dem nächsten Segler hilfreich und besser als nix. Ziel ist es natürlich diese Platzhalter symbole irgendwann durch vollständig getaggte Seezeichen zu ersetzen. Über diese Lösung haben wir auch schon nachgedacht. Dies ist allerdings schwer zu realisieren. Es kann immer passieren, das es Schlüssel gibt die der Renderer nicht kennt. Wenn er jetzt alle diese Seezeichen mit einem Fragezeichen darstellen würde, verleite ich die Leute für den Renderer zu taggen. Sprich an den Werten zu drehen bis das Zeichen endlich korrekt dargestellt wird, und dabei evtl. wieder wichtige Informationen zu löschen. Auch der Renderer könnte diese Modularität und Unabhängigkeit der einzelnen Tags voneinander berücksichtigen und eben das Licht und den Leuchtturm bzw. die Tonne unabhängig voneinander zeichnen. So hat man dann auch eine Möglichkeit mit den unvollständig erfassten Seezeichen, welche in OSM nun mal auch erfasst werden, umzugehen. Mein Renderer (OpenSeaMap) tut doch genau dieses. Er stellt die Teile einer Tonne (Tonnenkörper, Topzeichen, Licht, Nebelhorn) einzeln dar. Erstellst du einen Knoten mit z.B. seamark:type = buoy_safe_water wird eine Tonne für das Sichere Fahrwasser dargestellt. Fügst du jetzt noch ein seamark:topmark:shape=sphere hinzu wird zusätzlich ein Topzeichen angezeigt. Fügst du ein seamark:light:colour=white hinzu wird zusätzlich das Symbol für das Licht angezeigt. Alle weiteren Angaben sind optional und dienen der weiteren Beschreibung des Seezeichens. Siehe oben- ab wann wird dein
Re: [Talk-de] Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
Am 28.01.10 schrieb Florian Lohoff: Nach einer Aenderung der Seiten im Wiki wird binnen 5-10 Minuten der output neu erzeugt. Mit kleiner Verzoegerung landen die Grenzen auch in den Grafiken. Allerdings gibt es in http://osm.gt.owl.de/Strassenliste/images/sachsen.jpg einen weißen Fleck in der Mitte, der sich mir nicht erschließt. Dort liegt Waldheim, http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/401845 Die Changesetkommentare und dass die Ortsgrenze noch als place=town getaggt ist, legen die Vermutung nahe, dass eine Grenze um den bebauten Ort auf das ganze Gemeindegebiet aufgezogen wurde. Kann es sein, dass das Bild noch mit der alten Fassung der Relation arbeitet und einmal geladene Relationen nicht aktualisiert werden? Ansonsten ein grosses Dankeschoen fuer den Service, nur leider wird die Karte immer roeter, je mehr Grenzen von Kuhdoerfern jwd ich eintrage :-) Fabian. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rendern von Seezeichen und Editor
PS: die üblichen JOSM-Vorlagen können die komplexen Regeln der Seezeichen nicht abbilden, und bei der Eingabe auch nicht prüfen. Deshalb wurden die beiden Editoren geschaffen. Damit auch Nicht-OSMer (oder OSMer ohne nautische Erfahrung) simpel und korrekt Daten eingeben können. Kunststück, dazu müsste man in OSM erstmal eine Dokumantation aufstellen die den Namen auch verdient. OSMer sind nicht bescheuert, nur wenn man denen nicht zeigt was wie auszusehen hat, kann das natürlich auch nichts werden. Was in OSM eingetragen wird, muss aber gerade zuerst auf OSM ersichtlich sein. Ansonsten muss ich mich dann nicht wundern, wenn jemand sowas aus versehen kickt. Andersrum können eure Editoren vieles nicht was man in OSM daneben eintragen kann. Und genau dann kommts dazu das die Dinger Informationen von OSM Seite her zerlegen oder das irgendwelche Doppeleinträge entstehen. Wie dem auch sei. Wenn man auf der OSM DB arbeiten möchte dann muss das egal von welcher Seite problemlos möglich sein. Ohne das man sich auf zwölfunddreißig extra Seiten anmelden und deren Funktionsweise studieren muss. Die Anwendungen sollen auf OSM aufbauen, nicht umgekehrt.Wenn man exclusiv mit eigenen Tools arbeiten möchte dann geht das nur auf einer eigenen DB, ansonsten wird immer irgendwas schief laufen. Wenn ich in JOSM auf soetwas stoße, dann muss es möglich sein im Wiki nachschlagen zu können was es bedeutet. Und da ist es auch wurst ob das nun nach Ilala, Knut, Inga oder Brunhilde Verordnung eingetragen wurde. Das muss auf OSM nachvollziehbar sein, genau wie das unter den bestehenden oder vielleicht noch kommen Seekarten unteinander funktionieren muss. Nicht kann sondern wirklich muss. Gruß Mirko ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassensuche in der Karte
Am Montag 22 Februar 2010 03:22:14 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Am 18. Februar 2010 18:03 schrieb Alexander Matheisen Finde ich ganz schön gut! Meiner Meinung wird das dem normalsterblichen Nutzer i.d.r ausreichen. Klar ist es nicht perfekt, aber besser, als gar keine Suchfunktion. die Lösung, die derzeit dort läuft (Auswahl per Drop-Down je Anfangsbuchstabe) ist m.E. für den gewünschten Anwendungsfall besser geeignet, weil automatisch nur Straßen des Ortes auftauchen und Tippfehler von vornherein ausgeschlossen werden. Ich finde die Suche ganz klar besser, denn damit kann man auch POIs und Adressen suchen. Außerdem erscheinen dort auch nur Straßen, Adressen und POIs des Ortes, wenn man an jede Eingabe automatisch , lauf anhängt. Und solche Dinge wie str statt straße sollten eher von den Entwicklern von Nominatim eingebaut werden. Gruß Martin Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassensuche in der Karte
Am Montag 22 Februar 2010 10:03:06 schrieb Sven Geggus: Alexander Matheisen alexandermathei...@ish.de wrote: Wofür gibt es Webstandarts, wenn man es doch immer an jeden Browser anpassen muss? s/art/ard/g Some Browsers are more Standard than others :) Das Problem mit IE Support sind IMO weniger dessen Eigenarten sondern es ist das Fehlen effizienter Debugging Tools wie Firebug mit dessen Hilfe man solche Fehler ja schnell gefunden hätte. Ich hatte das ja schon mal geschrieben. Die Standardkompatibilität von IE ist seit IE6 erheblich besser geworden. Gerade die Eigenarten sind das Problem. Ob es nun das Favicon, die Abfrage von Tastendrücken oder auch die Eigenart ist, dass Variablen bzw. Objekt nicht den selben Namen wie die id eines HTML-Elements haben dürfen. Das nervt einfach nur. Das sollte doch nun endlich mal vereinheitlicht werden. Zwar ist die Kompatiblität des IE besser geworden, aber meiner Meinung nach immer noch viel zu schlecht. Was bringt einem denn ein bisschen Kompatiblität? Dann ist er doch immer noch nicht kompatibel! Gruss Sven Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] (NIcht-)Raucherbereiche mappen
Am 22. Februar 2010 11:42 schrieb 1248 1...@gmx.de: Interessante Frage. Ich verstehe separated so, daß es ausgewiesene Bereiche sowohl für Raucher als auch Nichtraucher gibt, daß also beide Gruppen voneinander getrennt (separated) sind. Das muß m.E. nicht unbedingt bedeuten, daß es eine Wand oder so gibt. Ich finde es auch nicht allzuwichtig, wie die Trennung stattfindet, ob über Glaswände, extra Räume oder über ein ausgeklügeltes Lüftungssystem. ich finde das bei den von Dir genannten Alternativen auch unbedeutend, wichtiger ist es halt, wenn diese Trennung eben so wie bei der Bahn nur durch eine gelbe Bodenmarkierung oder anderere nichttrennende Grenzen stattfindet. Separated ist das dann nicht wirklich. Daher würde ich denken, daß eine der beiden folgenden Möglichkeiten sinnvoll sein könnten: Beispiel: Es gibt Raucherzonen, aber nur draußen auf den Bahnsteigen. 1) Den Bahnhof taggen mit smoking=no smoking:outside=separated OK, wenn man die Bahnsteige als draussen definiert. In Bahnhofshallen ist das ja schon wieder die Frage. 2) Vielleicht könnte man auch, falls der Bahnsteig als Fläche gemappt ist, dort eine Area einzeichnen und diese mit smoking:outside=yes taggen. ja, so was schwebt mir eigentlich vor. Bzw. einen Node für den Raucherbereich. Oft ist der aber nicht outside, wie wärs mit einem schlichten smoking=yes ? Willst Du das Proposal nochmal anpassen, so dass es allgemeiner wird, und sich nicht auf Gastronomie beschränkt? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rendern von Seezeichen und Editor
Hallo Arne, Im Online-Editor auf http://map.openseamap.org/ kann ich z. B. das Toppzeichen nicht abschalten (die Checkbox ist disabled). In Norwegen haben Kardinalzeichen aber niemals Toppzeichen. OK, wie wäre es, wenn das Topzeichen enabled wäre und beim Eintragen einer neuen Tonne per default angewählt ist. Beim Laden einer Tonne ohne Topzeichen ist es denn abgewählt. Ebenfalls kann ich nicht die Kennung UQ(3) einstellen. Die ist zwar unüblich, aber zulässig. Füge ich hinzu. (Ferner kann ich keine Wiederkehr einstellen, was vermutlich einfach bisher noch nicht implementiert ist.) Die Wiederkehr ist lediglich bei den *Q Kennungen nicht einstellbar, da diese von der Wiederholrate zu schnell sind, als das dies Sinn machen würde. Wird übrigens bei diesen Kennungen auch auf keiner Karte angezeigt. [...] Nationale Ergänzungen sind zulässig, jedoch keine Abweichungen vom festgelegten Standard. Was glaubst Du, was alles gemacht wird, obwohl es nicht zulässig ist... Da können noch so schöne Systeme definiert sein, die reale Welt sorgt immer noch für Abweichungen, mit denen Editoren und Renderer in OSM _prinzipiell_ umgehen können müssen. Ähnlich wie bei Mapnik Co. muss der Renderer nicht zwangsläufig alles perfekt rendern, was ihm über die Füße läuft. Was er nicht kennt, bleibt halt weg oder wird sinnvoll ersetzt (ist im Prinzip auf map.openseamap.org schon so implementiert). Die Hauptarbeit muss m. E. der Online-Editor leisten, indem er beim Einlesen von Objekten, die unvollständig oder unüblich getaggt sind, die Situation irgendwie sinnvoll darstellt (und die Daten ohne Zerstörung zurückschreibt, logisch). Das könnte _beispielsweise_ dadurch geschehen, dass bei Erkennen eines solchen Problemfalls (Objekt passt nicht genau ins vordefinierte Raster) statt der Editor-GUI zuerst eine rohe tag-Liste im Stil von JOSM angezeigt wird. Dem Nutzer könnte die Wahl gegeben werden, entweder die tags direkt dort zu bearbeiten oder (evtl. unter Datenverlust) auf den üblich GUI-Editor umzusteigen, falls gewünscht. Diese Lösung könnte nahezu alle Fälle mit der schönen einfachen GUI abdecken, wäre aber trotzdem flexibel für Änderungen. Ist aber nur eine von sicherlich vielen möglichen Ideen, und nicht unbedingt die beste. Die gleiche Idee hatte ich auch schon bereits weiter oben vorgeschlagen. Ich werde mal schauen wie ich dieses sinnvoll umgesetzt bekomme. [...] Beste Grüße Olaf ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Postfachstellen-Tags
Moin ! zum wiederholten male habe ich Postfachstellen gefunden - hat einer von Euch schon dazu entsprechende Tags definiert und ggf. ein Vorschlag ? Gruß jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Postfachstellen-Tags
moin On 22.02.2010, at 15:42, Jan Tappenbeck wrote: zum wiederholten male habe ich Postfachstellen gefunden - hat einer von Euch schon dazu entsprechende Tags definiert und ggf. ein Vorschlag ? hmm interessante frage. zumal es wird ja wohl auch getaggt werden müssen zu welchen anbieter die postfächer gehören. hier gibt es nen laden der nimmt auch pakete für UPS an (also zum verschicken), sieht mir aber nicht so aus als wenn die postfächer da von DHL oder so beliefert werden. cu AssetBurned smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] OSM Karten bei Pocketland /itrona
An Alle zur Inforamtion, Kann mich nicht erinneren daß das schonmal gepostet wurde. Bei Pocketland git es OSM Karten für WM5 zu 1.95 Euro. Habe aber nicht weiterverfolgt was dahintersteckt. Der Download soll 1.377 KB gross sein http://pocketland.de/53630/xMaps.html Gruss Loth ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM Karten bei Pocketland /itrona
Am 22. Februar 2010 16:55 schrieb Lothar Beck l.b...@freenet.de: An Alle zur Inforamtion, Kann mich nicht erinneren daß das schonmal gepostet wurde. Bei Pocketland git es OSM Karten für WM5 zu 1.95 Euro. Habe aber nicht weiterverfolgt was dahintersteckt. Der Download soll 1.377 KB gross sein http://pocketland.de/53630/xMaps.html Wenn man einfach die Beschreibung direkt auf der Seite liest, erfährt man, daß es sich um eine simple Moving-Map-Applikation für Windows Mobile handelt, die OSM-Kartenkacheln herunterladen kann. Da versucht niemand OSM-Daten zu verkaufen. Die Mühe wäre doch drin gewesen, oder? ;-) Gruß, Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
Am 22. Februar 2010 13:38 schrieb Fabian Schmidt fschm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de: Am 28.01.10 schrieb Florian Lohoff: Nach einer Aenderung der Seiten im Wiki wird binnen 5-10 Minuten der output neu erzeugt. Mit kleiner Verzoegerung landen die Grenzen auch in den Grafiken. Allerdings gibt es in http://osm.gt.owl.de/Strassenliste/images/sachsen.jpg einen weißen Fleck in der Mitte, der sich mir nicht erschließt. Dort liegt Waldheim, http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/401845 Die Changesetkommentare und dass die Ortsgrenze noch als place=town getaggt ist, legen die Vermutung nahe, dass eine Grenze um den bebauten Ort auf das ganze Gemeindegebiet aufgezogen wurde. Kann es sein, dass das Bild noch mit der alten Fassung der Relation arbeitet und einmal geladene Relationen nicht aktualisiert werden? Ich denke da ist Florian noch am grübeln, warum das so ist (siehe Mail). Aber eigentlich sollten die Grenzen nach einem Ändern neu eingelesen werden. Am 19. Februar 2010 11:25 schrieb Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de: On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:21:10AM +0100, André Riedel wrote: 2. http://osm.gt.owl.de/Strassenliste/images/sachsen.jpg Die Stadt Waldheim (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/401845) wird falsch und die Stadt Görlitz (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/409676) gar nicht angezeigt. Hmm - die relationen sehen aber gut aus: osm= select id,name,complete,adminlevel,ST_IsSimple(border),ST_IsClosed(border) from completeborders where id in ( 401845, 409676); id | name | complete | adminlevel | st_issimple | st_isclosed +--+--++-+- 401845 | Waldheim | 62 | 8 | t | t 409676 | Görlitz | 73 | 8 | t | t Ciao André ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Toppzeichen gesperrte Wasserflaeche
Hallo Arne, [...] In OSeaM ist eine der gelben Tonnen da übrigens interessanterweise als Backbordtonne getaggt. Die lag an der Stelle tatsächlich früher auch mal (~ 10 Jahre her). Anhand des fehlenden Source-Taggings und des Musters der Änderungen in OSM ist nicht auszuschließen, dass hier von älteren Seekarten abgezeichnet wurde. Interessant,kannst du mir eventuell einmal die Knoten ID zukommen lassen, damit ich den Nutzer darauf ansprechen kann? Solche Dinge sollten möglichst schnell geklärt werden, damit es keinen weiteren Eintragungen dieser Art gibt. Wie gesagt: die Eintragung könnte ja nach Quelle durchaus so richtig und gutartig sein, aber einen source-tag zu ergänzen wäre auf jeden Fall eine gute Idee. Vielleicht sollte der Online-Editor direkt ein Eingabefeld dafür vorsehen... Notiert. Mal schauen. [...] Welches ist denn eine sinnvolle Quelle für nautische Grenzen (Sperr-, Naturschutz-, Reede- und andere Gebiete, Basislinie etc.)? Diese Angaben sind ja an sich nicht geschützt. Habe ich mir in letzter Konsequenz noch keine Gedanken drüber gemacht. Wenn diese Daten nicht geschützt sind, dürfen sie natürlich verwendet werden. Es gäbe noch die Möglichkeit die Grenze entlang der Tonnen einzutragen. und Karten auch nicht zur Korrektur der Lage der Seezeichen benutztIch werden sollen. Allgemein ist die Position der Tonne ja aufgrund der Länge der Ankerkette und der herrschenden Strömungs- und Windrichtung ständig unterschiedlich. [...] Was ja eben gerade das Argument für die von mir vermutete Einstufung der Sollposition als amtliches Datum nach § 5 ist. Eventuell wäre es sogar sinnvoll, Soll- und Ist-Positionen getrennt zu taggen, wenn die Ist-Position tatsächlich zur Verfügung steht. Wäre eine Idee, aber ich glaube davon sind wir zur Zeit noch weit entfernt. ;-) Wie steht es denn diesbezüglich mit den NfS? Das ist ja im Prinzip auch ein Werk im amtlichen Interesse zur allgemeinen Kenntnisnahme. :) Diese sind gemeinfrei und dürfen daher zum Korrigieren bzw eintragen von Seezeichen benutzt werden. Was, wo hast Du denn das her? Sorry, habe auf die schnelle Nachrichten für Seefahrer mit Bekanntmachungen für Seefahrer verwechselt. Letztere sind laut den Nutzungsbedingungen Frei verwendbar. (http://www.elwis.de/misc/disclaimer.html) Beste Grüße Olaf ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassensuche in der Karte
Alexander Matheisen schrieb: Am Montag 22 Februar 2010 03:22:14 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: die Lösung, die derzeit dort läuft (Auswahl per Drop-Down je Anfangsbuchstabe) ist m.E. für den gewünschten Anwendungsfall besser geeignet, weil automatisch nur Straßen des Ortes auftauchen und Tippfehler von vornherein ausgeschlossen werden. Ich finde die Suche ganz klar besser, denn damit kann man auch POIs und Adressen suchen. Außerdem erscheinen dort auch nur Straßen, Adressen und POIs des Ortes, wenn man an jede Eingabe automatisch , lauf anhängt. Und solche Dinge wie str statt straße sollten eher von den Entwicklern von Nominatim eingebaut werden. Man kann also eine Funktionalität (Beschränkung auf den Ort), die die Liste automatisch bietet, nachbauen, und eine andere (Klarkommen mit Abkürzungen) ist zwar nicht vorhanden, aber wird vielleicht irgendwann noch mal eingebaut. Ein Suchfeld kann außerdem noch etwas, das gar nicht verlangt war - schön, aber deshalb auf wichtige Fähigkeiten in dem Bereich zu verzichten, der tatsächlich verlangt ist...? Ich finde für den Anwendungsfall Straßensuche eine Straßenliste viel geeigneter. Ein Mensch ist geschickter im Fuzzy-Suchen einer Straße, deren Schreibweise er nur ungefähr kennt. Nominatim versagt da meinem Eindruck nach noch auf ganzer Linie - selbst der kleinste Tippfehler (so was wie Melanchtonstraße statt Melanchthonstraße) führt 100% zum Fehlschlag. Meiner Ansicht nach ist Nominatim einfach noch nicht robust genug, dass ich es da einsetzen würde. Abkürzungen sind ein Muss, und Tippfehlertoleranz ist man inzwischen eigentlich auch gewohnt... Tobias Knerr PS: Funktioniert das mit dem , lauf überhaupt? Gibt schließlich mehrere Orte mit dem Namen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassensuche in der Karte
Am Montag 22 Februar 2010 17:40:50 schrieb Tobias Knerr: Alexander Matheisen schrieb: Am Montag 22 Februar 2010 03:22:14 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: die Lösung, die derzeit dort läuft (Auswahl per Drop-Down je Anfangsbuchstabe) ist m.E. für den gewünschten Anwendungsfall besser geeignet, weil automatisch nur Straßen des Ortes auftauchen und Tippfehler von vornherein ausgeschlossen werden. Ich finde die Suche ganz klar besser, denn damit kann man auch POIs und Adressen suchen. Außerdem erscheinen dort auch nur Straßen, Adressen und POIs des Ortes, wenn man an jede Eingabe automatisch , lauf anhängt. Und solche Dinge wie str statt straße sollten eher von den Entwicklern von Nominatim eingebaut werden. Man kann also eine Funktionalität (Beschränkung auf den Ort), die die Liste automatisch bietet, nachbauen, und eine andere (Klarkommen mit Abkürzungen) ist zwar nicht vorhanden, aber wird vielleicht irgendwann noch mal eingebaut. Ein Suchfeld kann außerdem noch etwas, das gar nicht verlangt war - schön, aber deshalb auf wichtige Fähigkeiten in dem Bereich zu verzichten, der tatsächlich verlangt ist...? Das wurde vielleicht nicht verlangt, weil nicht darüber nachgedacht wurde. Aber eine Adresssuche ist doch schon ganz praktisch. Ich finde für den Anwendungsfall Straßensuche eine Straßenliste viel geeigneter. Ein Mensch ist geschickter im Fuzzy-Suchen einer Straße, deren Schreibweise er nur ungefähr kennt. Nominatim versagt da meinem Eindruck nach noch auf ganzer Linie - selbst der kleinste Tippfehler (so was wie Melanchtonstraße statt Melanchthonstraße) führt 100% zum Fehlschlag. Dann kann man doch einfach beides anbieten. Für Adress- und POIsuche das Suchfeld und für die komplizierten Straßennamen die Straßenliste. Meiner Ansicht nach ist Nominatim einfach noch nicht robust genug, dass ich es da einsetzen würde. Abkürzungen sind ein Muss, und Tippfehlertoleranz ist man inzwischen eigentlich auch gewohnt... Tobias Knerr Alex PS: Funktioniert das mit dem , lauf überhaupt? Gibt schließlich mehrere Orte mit dem Namen. Dann hängt man eben lauf an der pegnitz an. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Strassenlistenabgleich - jetzt in Selbstbedienung
hi, das Problem mit den roten Flecken hab ich auch (sind wohl ansteckend wie Masern?). die Sache mit den Strassenlisten ist halt zweischneidig: Städte/Gemeinden eintragen UND abgleichen. Das Ganze kommt ja so richtig ins Rollen - wir müssen jetzt nur andere Mitstreiter motivieren, was gegen die Flecken zu tun. mfg wambacher - Erst wenn der letzte Programmierer eingesperrt... ...und die letzte Idee patentiert ist, werdet ihr merken, dass Anwälte nicht programmieren können. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Strassenlistenabgleich-jetzt-in-Selbstbedienung-tp4472631p4613640.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
