[Talk-hr] croatia.osm.bz2 - 31.01.2011.

2011-02-01 Per discussione hbogner

Malo izvješće o situaciji u RH na dan 31.01.2011.
croatia.osm.bz2 se sastoji od: 1 278 767 točaka, 109 888 puteva, 2 617 
relacija te zauzima 20.1MB


Do današnjeg dana 1005 korisnika je radilo na području koje obuhvaća 
croatia.osm.bz2 te od tog broja u zadnjih 30 dana je bilo aktivno 88 
korisnika.


Započela je sistematizacija pješačkih, planinarskih i biciklističkih 
staza na wiki stranicama:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Croatia/Pjesacke_staze
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Croatia/Planinarske_staze
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Croatia/Biciklisticke_Staze

Nastavljena je sistematizacija prometnica na wiki stranicama:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Croatia/Ceste
i to sa velikim uspjehom. Državne ceste su kategorizirane i to 99.81%, 
županijske 86.29%, dok lokalne zaostaju sa 29.11% što je sasvim logično 
jer nisu ni toliko prometne(bar što se gpx logova tiče) niti ih je lako 
prepoznati na satelitskim snimkama koje su dopuštenje za korištenje.



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] LWN article on license change and Creative Commons

2011-02-01 Per discussione Anthony
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 5:03 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,

 Anthony wrote:

 Strongly agree.  Whether started and/or spread by CC, OSM, both, or
 neither, there definitely seems to be a common misconception that OSM
 is simply a database of facts,

 Well I for one still believe that OSM is aiming to be a database of facts.

 and that therefore what's best for a
 database of facts is best for OSM.

 I think that the misconception from which CC is now distancing themselves is
 that data should be licensed CC0, not OSM is a databae of facts.

Alright, so, here's what they've said:

We occasionally encounter a misimpression that CC licenses can’t be
used for data and databases, or that we don’t want CC licenses to be
used for data and databases. This is largely our fault

Data and databases are often copyrightable. When licensed under any
of our licenses, the license terms apply to copyrightable data and
databases, requiring adaptations that are distributed be released
under the same or compatible license terms, for example, when a
ShareAlike license is used.

CC licenses can and should be used for data and databases, right now
(as they have been for 8 years) — with the important caveat that CC
3.0 license conditions do not extend to “protect” a database that is
otherwise uncopyrightable.

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[OSM-legal-talk] CC-BY-SA / Non-separatable combination of OSM+other

2011-02-01 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

   this has arisen in a discussion on talk-gb, but I'm paraphrasing to
spare you the details.

Say you make a printed map that consists of an OSM base map with
something else sourced from elsewhere printed on top, e.g. an OSM map
with your private dataset of underground pipelines.

Until now it was my understanding that such a map can only ever be
licensed CC-BY-SA in full; you cannot say the base map is licensed
CC-BY-SA but if you trace off the underground pipelines then you violate
my copyright.

I know that at OSM we always used to say: If the layers are separable
then you can have different licenses on each; if not, then not.

For example, several projects using terrain elevation data from CGIAR,
which is licensened noncommercial use only, have gone to great lengths
to produce multi-layered tiled maps (OSM data on the base layer, then
CGIAR data on the semi-transparent intermediate layer, then OSM data
again on the top layer) because they have been told that if they merge
the data, then the whole tile must be licensed CC-BY-SA - you cannot
have a tile that says CC-BY-SA but the contour shadings herein must
only be used in a noncommercial context.

Over on talk-gb, Peter Miller claimed the opposite; he says that even if
multiple sources are combined in an inseparable way (e.g. printed on top
of each other), you can still claim that this is a collected work
where the CC-BY-SA license applies only to the OSM bit, and not to
whatever you printed on top.

Of course this would result in a map that can *not* be copied under
CC-BY-SA because it is virtually impossible to make a copy and leave out
the foreign data that has been printed on top.

Peter says that


I would consider the proposed resulting work to be 'two or more
distinct, separate and independent works selected and arranged into a
collective whole with the ccbysa content being used in an entirely
unmodified form'.


For me, this would be the case if you produce a book with copyrighted 
data on one page and CC-BY-SA data on the next, but not if you print 
everything into one so that it cannot be separated and the CC-BY-SA 
content cannot be accessed separately. I was under the impression that 
OSM data cannot be used as a base medium to distribute proprietary data.


Peter invited me to continue the discussion here rather than on talk-gb, 
so here we are. Does anyone have an opinion on the matter? I'd be very 
interested to hear them because I have been explaining CC-BY-SA to a lot 
of people an I always told them that if they make a printed product it 
*has* to be CC-BY-SA, fully. Now if it turns out that project opinion is 
rather more on Peter's side I'd probably make some phone calls tomorrow 
and tell some people that contrary to what I said earlier, they can go 
ahead with their projects ;)


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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[OSM-legal-talk] per changeset relicensing

2011-02-01 Per discussione Richard Weait
There have been previous discussions regarding per changeset relicensing.

I'd like to know if developing the tools to allow per changeset
relicensing is worthwhile.  There will be some effort involved in the
coding, so it would be good to know in advance if this option will be
used by many or few mappers.

The intent of per changeset relicensing is to permit those with a
general agreement to the terms and license, but with a specific
concern about a source for a particular changeset to relicense their
data, but not relicense that data about which they are concerned.

Example:

Prof. Mapper maps by GPS and survey as she travels.  She also helped a
friend map in Erehwon, and added street names from Erehwon Council
data.  Erehwon council have given permission for derivation to OSM
under CC-By-SA, but discussion is continuing re: CT/ODbL, Prof. Mapper
agrees with CT/ODbL but recognizes that She doesn't have permission
yet to relicense the Erehwon street names.

Prof. Mapper could accept CT/ODbL for the bulk of her mapping, and
mark the seven Erehwon changesets a with a checkbox for Do Not
Relicense and with a note, Pending Erehwon Council permission.

This allows several options in the future. It points out datasets and
mappers with interest in discussing relicensing with a specific data
provider.  Should Erehwon Council agree to ODbL prior to any change
over date, the data can be included. If not, Prof. Mapper may continue
with their unencumbered data.



http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WFVK6XS

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] per changeset relicensing

2011-02-01 Per discussione David Groom
- Original Message - 
From: Richard Weait rich...@weait.com

To: Licensing and other legal discussions. legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:38 PM
Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] per changeset relicensing




There have been previous discussions regarding per changeset 
relicensing.


I'd like to know if developing the tools to allow per changeset
relicensing is worthwhile.  There will be some effort involved in the
coding, so it would be good to know in advance if this option will be
used by many or few mappers.


+1 from me

For instance I have nearly 8,000 changesets under one of my usre accounts 
but at present I don't think I can agree to the CT's for that user account.


However I'd be very surprised if less than 80% of those changesets were ODbL 
compliant, and I suspect that as far as the percentage of actual data 
contributed under those changesets the figure is even higher than 80%.


It would be a real shame to lose so much data (and so much of my work)

Personally I'd find it useful to be able to mark changesets as ODbL 
compliant or not.


First thoughts are that ideally I'd like:

1) the ability to mark all changesets before a certain date as ODbL 
compliant;
2) remaining changesets to be shown say 20 per page, and the ability to tag 
these individually or to select all  20 and mark as ODbL compliant.


David




The intent of per changeset relicensing is to permit those with a
general agreement to the terms and license, but with a specific
concern about a source for a particular changeset to relicense their
data, but not relicense that data about which they are concerned.

Example:

Prof. Mapper maps by GPS and survey as she travels.  She also helped a
friend map in Erehwon, and added street names from Erehwon Council
data.  Erehwon council have given permission for derivation to OSM
under CC-By-SA, but discussion is continuing re: CT/ODbL, Prof. Mapper
agrees with CT/ODbL but recognizes that She doesn't have permission
yet to relicense the Erehwon street names.

Prof. Mapper could accept CT/ODbL for the bulk of her mapping, and
mark the seven Erehwon changesets a with a checkbox for Do Not
Relicense and with a note, Pending Erehwon Council permission.

This allows several options in the future. It points out datasets and
mappers with interest in discussing relicensing with a specific data
provider.  Should Erehwon Council agree to ODbL prior to any change
over date, the data can be included. If not, Prof. Mapper may continue
with their unencumbered data.



http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WFVK6XS

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Re: [OSM-talk] Anyone know who wrote rawedit?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 02/01/11 03:24, Steve Bennett wrote:

   So, as discussed on another thread, I'm trying to use
rawedit.openstreetmap.fr to undelete a relation, but am getting XML
parser errors. Anyone know who I can contact, or where to get the
source from?


Either Etienne Chové ch...@crans.org has written it, or he knows who has.

Bye
Frederik



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Re: [OSM-talk] New tool in Potlatch 2 for areas that share a way

2011-02-01 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/2/1  j...@jfeldredge.com:
 What about a grassy field that is being used for industrial storage?  For 
 example, one small company here in Nashville has stacks of steel beams, 
 several wheeled cranes, and the like stored on a grass-covered vacant lot 
 next to their office and parking lot.  From the way the grass is grown up 
 around the wheels, some of the equipment hasn't been moved in years.


according to our current scheme this would clearly be industrial, as
storage is incorporated. I agree that industrial comprises a lot of
different situations, so IMHO some subtagging could help.

I could imagine subtags to refine the industry classification for

- storage
- administration
- production
- smaller kinds of industry (in Germany we call them
Gewerbegebiet, (don't know the English term) and they are not
considered Industrie at all, but in OSM they would fall into
industry, usually they are smaller firms and they don't necessarily do
mass production, due to their size and operating range they have less
infrastructure requirements (big industries usually have their own
railway-connection and are situated besides a freeway/airport))

and maybe more.

There should/could IMHO also be subtags to describe the sector, e.g.
automotive, energy, textiles, ...

cheers,
Martin

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[OSM-talk] OSM content policy (was Re: New tool in Potlatch 2 for areas that share a way)

2011-02-01 Per discussione Steve Bennett
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:13 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 who is OSM and how can they make actual choices between different
 uses of the data?

Good questions. My rough guess would be the people who contribute
data to the OSM database and by having debates, developing policies,
and encouraging people to respect the policies.

Wikipedia went through this. It started out being more or less a
free-for-all, then worked out over time that accepting *everything*
was not in the broader interest. So now there are limits to
notability, pornographic images are out, fan universes are restricted
etc. They chose between different kinds of uses and decided that
serving the needs of education institutions was more important than,
say, serving the needs of Wheel of Time fans.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM content policy (was Re: New tool in Potlatch 2 for areas that share a way)

2011-02-01 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/2/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
 On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:13 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
 dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 who is OSM and how can they make actual choices between different
 uses of the data?

 Good questions. My rough guess would be the people who contribute
 data to the OSM database

+1

 and by having debates, developing policies,
 and encouraging people to respect the policies.


-1

 Wikipedia went through this.

yes, and in the German Wikipedia there are for some time strict
policies which lead to a lot of trouble, resulting in a situation
where many contributers were frustrated by the bureaucracy and decided
not to contribute any more. IMHO the strength of OSM is it's freedom
and flexibility. I wouldn't like to loose this in favor of more
bureaucracy and policies.


cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM content policy (was Re: New tool in Potlatch 2 for areas that share a way)

2011-02-01 Per discussione Steve Bennett
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:57 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 yes, and in the German Wikipedia there are for some time strict
 policies which lead to a lot of trouble, resulting in a situation
 where many contributers were frustrated by the bureaucracy and decided
 not to contribute any more.

OTOH, the German Wikipedia is the second biggest, and apparently the
source of many new features (notably, flagged revisions and OSM
integration...)

 IMHO the strength of OSM is it's freedom
 and flexibility. I wouldn't like to loose this in favor of more
 bureaucracy and policies.

Well, since I haven't proposed any concrete policies, I can't speak to
whether such freedom and flexibility would be compromised.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] New tool in Potlatch 2 for areas that share a way

2011-02-01 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 02/01/11 03:37, Steve Bennett wrote:

Furthermore, you might be reduced to categorising individual elements
of the factory. Would the administrative wing really be
landuse=industrial? Surely it should be landuse=commercial. etc etc.


Before long you'll be tagging the restrooms as 
landuse=wastewater_facility or something.



I don't think there's any single answer that can give the right
information to every consumer. Sometimes OSM has to make actual
choices between different uses of the data.


Well the goal certainly is being totally consumer agnostic - We map 
what's on the ground, and you decide how you want to use that.


It is true that we sometimes do make choices that make things easier for 
a common use and may cause problems for a less common use (for example: 
we usually map streets as lines even though, on the ground, they are 
areas). But this is not a final decision, but rather a compromise for 
the time being - with tools and software as they are, mapping all roads 
as areas would be too difficult for most people at this time. This does 
not mean it will remain so forever; indeed I am pretty sure that sooner 
or later we *will* have the actual surface area for all roads in our 
database.


In my eyes, the goal is always to come as close to reality as possible, 
but this is tempered by the current state of tool quality, database and 
data model performance, community aptitude etc.; so what you see in OSM 
right now is the current compromise between what is feasible and what is 
desired. This compromise is not a decision or a choice that has been 
made; it is floating.


Bye
Frederik

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[OSM-talk] PotM: Now with more graph-y goodness

2011-02-01 Per discussione Richard Weait
I've been looking at different ways to show how people are
participating in Project of the Week / Month for a while but without
really finding a great solution.  For mapping in specific areas, a
before / after rendering is nice, but there is no instant
gratification from that.  And we prefer projects that allow mappers
to participate and map close to home, where their local knowledge is a
tremendous benefit.

I added graphs recently for some projects, so that you can see,
nominally, the number of objects in the OSM database.  Sadly, when
looking at frequently used tags, a week of contributions might not
make much of an impression on a simple graph of the total.

Based on feedback from project participants, I've added a bit more to
the graphs.  First is a Recent line, which shows the number of
objects added to the database recently.  Recently means nominally, in
the previous hour.  It isn't perfect, and it isn't gratification that
is as instant as we might like it, but my server can keep up with
providing these numbers.  And from day to day, or even morning to
evening, it is easier to see the scale of user contributions of a
specific type of object.

For example, recent project place_of_worship now shows a recent line
and text below that suggests the users add ~1.7 pow points per hour,
and 3.3 pow polygons per hour.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Project_of_the_week/2010/Dec_22#Results

The current Project of the Month, buildings, has an additional feature
on the graph, suggested by PotW participants.  The PotM line
indicates the start and end of the Project of the Month period on the
graph. This should allow us to see the effect of a PotM, by clearly
indicating when the project was active, and showing contribution rates
before, during and after.  At some point after a project, a static
graph can be left on the project page for a permanent record.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Project_of_the_week#Results

So.  What do you think?

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[OSM-talk] Creative Commons: Use CC for databases

2011-02-01 Per discussione Anthony
I'd urge everyone, especially those who have not yet decided whether
or not to agree to the Contributor Terms, to read this post by Mike
Linksvayer of Creative Commons.  Most relevantly he asks us to:

use CC licenses for data and databases now, participate in the 4.0
process, and upgrade when the 4.0 suite is released, or at least do
not foreclose the possibility of doing so.

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[OSM-talk] SOTM Denver travel discounts?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Coast, Hurricane
Hi Nick,

You are right about the travel discounts!
I am waiting on a few more details before this offer is 'live' but here is what 
it looks like.
We will have a Meeting ID # that you will use either online or by calling 
United.

This will get a traveller 10%-20%  off regular published fares with United 
Airlines (and I believe the Star Alliance group).
Travel will be available Sept 1st- Sept 30th, so giving OSMers plenty of time 
to travel around!

We should be able to have the call in code ready by the end of the week.
For online, they have warned me there is about a 14 day waiting period, but 
then you can book online.

Your travel can originate from anywhere, with the destination being Denver. We 
need a minimum of 20 passengers to take advantage of this offer, so be sure to 
bring all your best mapping buddies :)

More information coming soon!

Best,

Hurricane






Hi,

Am 99% certain of coming to Denver this September for SOTM. I'd like
to book flights as soon as possible before the fares start creeping up
nearer the time, however ISTR a mention of travel discounts when the
venue was first announced.

Is this still going ahead? I'm planning on coming over for 2 weeks, to
combine SOTM with a holiday (7th-21st or 8th-22nd); will any discounts
be valid in that case?

Would be coming from London.

Thanks,
Nick
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Re: [OSM-talk] Creative Commons: Use CC for databases

2011-02-01 Per discussione Toby Murray
A link would be helpful. Don't see anything like this on his blog.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Creative Commons: Use CC for databases

2011-02-01 Per discussione Alex Ruddick
I believe this is the blog post:
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/26283
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Re: [OSM-talk] Creative Commons: Use CC for databases

2011-02-01 Per discussione Tobias Knerr
Anthony wrote:
 I'd urge everyone, especially those who have not yet decided whether
 or not to agree to the Contributor Terms, to read this post by Mike
 Linksvayer of Creative Commons.

You forgot the link:
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/26283

  Most relevantly he asks us to:
 
 use CC licenses for data and databases now, participate in the 4.0
 process, and upgrade when the 4.0 suite is released, or at least do
 not foreclose the possibility of doing so.

To make this clear, he does not address OSM directly, the blog post is
directed at the general public.

It is a very interesting statement, though. It is not, as you imply, a
reason for not agreeing to the Contributor Terms (these would still
allow us to go for CC 4.0 licenses), but I hope that the Foundation
keeps this development on the radar.

Tobias Knerr

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Re: [OSM-talk] Creative Commons: Use CC for databases

2011-02-01 Per discussione Elizabeth Dodd
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 14:18:11 -0600
Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote:

 A link would be helpful. Don't see anything like this on his blog.
 


http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/26283

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Re: [OSM-talk] Creative Commons: Use CC for databases

2011-02-01 Per discussione Grant Slater
On 1 February 2011 20:31, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote:

 It is a very interesting statement, though. It is not, as you imply, a
 reason for not agreeing to the Contributor Terms (these would still
 allow us to go for CC 4.0 licenses), but I hope that the Foundation
 keeps this development on the radar.


The Licensing Working Group has been speaking to Creative Commons.

The minutes from last week:

4. Creative Commons

Mike Linksvayer, Vice President, and General Counsel  Diane Peters of
Creative Commons joined us to discuss where they at with BY-SA and
data. We were greaty encouraged that they will be looking at this very
seriously during a CC suite 4.0 version review process, which will
take about two years once started. Mike L particularly emphasised the
importance of inter-operability.  The meeting was very cordial and
both groups look forward to mutual co-operation.  Mike said that
OpenStreetMap is very happy to share our experience as a pioneer in
trying to implement an Open IP license for data and databases that
incorporated attribution and share-alike and looked forward to
participating in the CC 4.0 input process.  He also asked if Creative
Commons could consider whether it could make any public comments on
the issue of compatibility with current CC-BY licenses on data and the
ODbL.

Ended 20:00. Steve,  Diane and Mike L left the call.

Source: https://docs.google.com/a/firefishy.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_101d2sqnzfg

Regards
 Grant

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Re: [OSM-talk] Creative Commons: Use CC for databases

2011-02-01 Per discussione Grant Slater
On 1 February 2011 20:39, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote:

 Source: https://docs.google.com/a/firefishy.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_101d2sqnzfg


If that link doesn't work repeated here:
http://www.osmfoundation.org/images/2/2e/20110118_LWG_Meeting_Minutes.pdf

Regards
 Grant

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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM Denver travel discounts?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Iván Sánchez Ortega
El día Tuesday 01 February 2011 20:23:14, Coast, Hurricane dijo:
 Your travel can originate from anywhere, with the destination being Denver.

Do you mean I cannot fly to the east coast, then rent a geobus and do a road 
trip?

Oh, bummer.

-- 
Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es

Un ordenador no es una televisión ni un microondas: es una herramienta 
compleja.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-talk-fr] quelqu'un cherche l'auteur et/ou les sources de rawedit

2011-02-01 Per discussione Steve Bennett
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Jocelyn Jaubert
jocelyn.jaub...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have put the sources on http://rawedit.openstreetmap.fr/src/

 This should contains everything necessary, even the apache2 and pgsql
 configuration.

 Please note that I'm not subscribed on this mailing list, so keep me on
 Cc: if you want any modifications done on rawedit.

Thanks very much!

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] New tool in Potlatch 2 for areas that share a way

2011-02-01 Per discussione nicholas . g . lawrence


 
 For some purposes the 'landuse=industrial' information will be more
 important, for other 'surface=grass'. These are different kinds of
 information.

Risk assessment and hazards are also relevant.

The grassy area next to a steel mill might not be plain old
grass, who knows what has been stored there and what kind
of hazards, from chemicals to rusty nails are left behind?

nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] Creative Commons: Use CC for databases

2011-02-01 Per discussione Sami Dalouche

On 11-02-01 03:31 PM, Tobias Knerr wrote:

Anthony wrote:

I'd urge everyone, especially those who have not yet decided whether
or not to agree to the Contributor Terms, to read this post by Mike
Linksvayer of Creative Commons.

You forgot the link:
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/26283


  Most relevantly he asks us to:

use CC licenses for data and databases now, participate in the 4.0
process, and upgrade when the 4.0 suite is released, or at least do
not foreclose the possibility of doing so.


Is the upgrade to 4.0 automatic, or do the data owners need to upgrade 
to 4.0 ?


By reading the license text, I  understand that the upgrade is 
automatic, but

since I'm no expert, I would appreciate some confirmation.

From http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode :
ou may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under the terms 
of [...] iii) a Creative Commons jurisdiction license (either this or a 
later license version) that contains the same License Elements as this 
License





To make this clear, he does not address OSM directly, the blog post is
directed at the general public.

It is a very interesting statement, though. It is not, as you imply, a
reason for not agreeing to the Contributor Terms (these would still
allow us to go for CC 4.0 licenses), but I hope that the Foundation
keeps this development on the radar.

Tobias Knerr

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[talk-au] Relicensing per changeset?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Richard Weait
There have been previous discussions regarding per changeset relicensing.

I'd like to know if developing the tools to allow per changeset
relicensing is worthwhile.  There will be some effort involved in the
coding, so it would be good to know in advance if this option will be
used by many or few mappers.

The intent of per changeset relicensing is to permit those with a
general agreement to the terms and license, but with a specific
concern about a source for a particular changeset to relicense their
data, but not relicense that data about which they are concerned.

Example:

Prof. Mapper maps by GPS and survey as she travels.  She also helped a
friend map in Erehwon, and added street names from Erehwon Council
data.  Erehwon council have given permission for derivation to OSM
under CC-By-SA, but discussion is continuing re: CT/ODbL, Prof. Mapper
agrees with CT/ODbL but recognizes that She doesn't have permission
yet to relicense the Erehwon street names.

Prof. Mapper could accept CT/ODbL for the bulk of her mapping, and
mark the seven Erehwon changesets a with a checkbox for Do Not
Relicense and with a note, Pending Erehwon Council permission.

This allows several options in the future. It points out datasets and
mappers with interest in discussing relicensing with a specific data
provider.  Should Erehwon Council agree to ODbL prior to any change
over date, the data can be included. If not, Prof. Mapper may continue
with their unencumbered data.



http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WFVK6XS

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[Talk-br] Roadmatcher

2011-02-01 Per discussione Odilon Lima
Olá Pessoal,

sou novato tanto no OSM quanto no mundo SIG (GIS). Estou interessando em
usar o Roadmatcher http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Roadmatcher (plugin
do OpenJUMP) e gostaria de saber se existe algum usuário deste grupo que já
utiliza essa ferramenta. Grato pela atenção,

Abraços.
-- 
Odilon Lima
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[Talk-br] Duvida Public GPS traces

2011-02-01 Per discussione Alexandre da Costa Medeiros
Pessoal,

Estou fazendo alguns inputs de trechos que tenho de Campinas/SP através de
um app para iPhone chamado OSMTrack. Parece que funciona bem, os uploads
foram aceitos pelo site, etc.

Alguém se habilita para mexer nesses dados? O problema é que eu consigo
fazer a coleta mas não tenho muito tempo esse ano para fazer a edição desse
material...

-- 
Alexandre C Medeiros
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Re: [Talk-br] Duvida Public GPS traces

2011-02-01 Per discussione David Kurka
Alexandre,

2011/2/1 Alexandre da Costa Medeiros ale...@gmail.com

 Pessoal,

 Estou fazendo alguns inputs de trechos que tenho de Campinas/SP através de
 um app para iPhone chamado OSMTrack. Parece que funciona bem, os uploads
 foram aceitos pelo site, etc.

 Alguém se habilita para mexer nesses dados? O problema é que eu consigo
 fazer a coleta mas não tenho muito tempo esse ano para fazer a edição desse
 material...


eu moro em Campinas e tenho mapeado várias ruas daqui... eu posso ajudar a
mecher nesses dados...
mas de que região em específico você está coletando? Você já conferiu se não
está mapeada ainda

Tendo imagens de alta resolução do Bing disponíveis, vale a pena investir em
traces gps? (pessoas além do Alexandre podem me responder isso também! :))

Abraços!


 --
 Alexandre C Medeiros


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-- 
David Kurka
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Re: [Talk-de] Aktien 13 (Spanien) startet ab Freitag

2011-02-01 Per discussione hike39
Fehler gefunden. Der URL für die C05er-Fehlerliste ist nicht
./C05-spaindaily-20110128.htm
sondern
./C05-spaindaily-20110129.htm
Das ganze giltet auch fur die GMX-Datei

hike39

Am 31.01.2011 10:53, schrieb hike39:
 Hallo Dirk,
 wollte gerade die neuesten Fehlerlisten zu C05 abarbeiten. Aber wenn ich
 das Crosschecking in HTML aufrufe, dann erhalte ich die 404er Meldung.
 
 hike39
 



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Re: [Talk-de] Tagebau - Kiesgrube

2011-02-01 Per discussione Georg Feddern

Moin,

M∡rtin Koppenhoefer schrieb:

wie taggt man
kombinierte Kies- und Sandgruben?

Hat eigentlich jemand Lust, das mal im Wiki dezidiert festzuhalten? Es
ist nicht das erste mal, dass wir uns hierüber unterhalten ;-)

  


im Rahmen dessen habe ich mir den resource tag und den Verweis auf 
aggregate nochmal genauer durchgelesen.


Gerade im Sinne von kombinierten Baustoff-Gruben (Sand, Kies, evtl. 
noch Beton-Recycling u.a.) ist resource=aggregate vielleicht doch gar 
nicht mal so verkehrt ...


Ich war mal so frei, zumindest den Listeneintrag mal mit den einzelnen 
Suchwörtern zu erweitern.


Gruß
Georg


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Re: [Talk-de] Aktien 13 (Spanien) startet ab Freitag

2011-02-01 Per discussione fla...@googlemail.com
hoppla ja da war was. Rechne gerade neue Daten vom 31.1  Die kommen
nachher online unter spaindaily

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[Talk-de] Dauer von Datenänderung bis diese gerendert ist

2011-02-01 Per discussione Markus

Früher dauerte es eine knappe Woche bis Änderungen gerendert wurden.
Heute dauert es gefühlt weniger als 10 Minuten.

Gibt es dazu eine Statistik?
Was sind die Schwankungsbreiten?
Wovon sind diese abhängig?

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-de] Dauer von Datenänderung bis diese gerendert ist

2011-02-01 Per discussione Claudius

Am 01.02.2011 12:08, Markus:

Früher dauerte es eine knappe Woche bis Änderungen gerendert wurden.
Heute dauert es gefühlt weniger als 10 Minuten.

Gibt es dazu eine Statistik?
Was sind die Schwankungsbreiten?
Wovon sind diese abhängig?


Statistik darüber in den visualisierten Serverstatistiken. Hier der 
Direktlinkt auf die RenderD(aemon) Queue Length, das ist die Länge der 
Warteschlange des Mapnik-Renderers: 
http://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap/yevaud.openstreetmap/renderd_queue.html


Diese Wartschlange erhöht sich oft kurzfristig nach Importen, da viele 
Kacheln neu berechnet werden müssen, aber auch nach Änderungen des 
Kartenstils, wie vor kurzem geschehn.


Claudius


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Re: [Talk-de] Dauer von Datenänderung bis diese gerendert ist

2011-02-01 Per discussione Markus

Hallo Claudius,

danke für den Link:


RenderD(aemon) Queue Length,Warteschlange des Mapnik-Renderers:
http://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap/yevaud.openstreetmap/renderd_queue.html


Wenn ich die Diagramme richtig verstehe:
Anzahl Kacheln (pro Zeiteinheit? welcher?), die gerendert werden?
Der Renderer arbeitet immer Vollast (1k)?
Zwischen den Tagen macht er Pause in den frühen Morgenstunden? warum?

Wie kann ich aus der Grafik ablesen, wie lange die Umsetzung einer 
Änderung in die Karte dauert?


Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-de] Dauer von Datenänderung bis diese gerendert ist

2011-02-01 Per discussione Fabian Schmidt


Am 01.02.11 schrieb Claudius:

Statistik darüber in den visualisierten Serverstatistiken. Hier der 
Direktlinkt auf die RenderD(aemon) Queue Length, das ist die Länge der 
Warteschlange des Mapnik-Renderers: 
http://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap/yevaud.openstreetmap/renderd_queue.html


dazu kommt noch die Zeit, die die Daten brauchen, um aus der API-DB in die 
Render-DB zu wandern:


http://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap/yevaud.openstreetmap/replication_delay.html


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Re: [Talk-de] Dauer von Datenänderung bis diese gerendert ist

2011-02-01 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hallo,

On 02/01/11 14:05, Fabian Schmidt wrote:

dazu kommt noch die Zeit, die die Daten brauchen, um aus der API-DB in
die Render-DB zu wandern:

http://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap/yevaud.openstreetmap/replication_delay.html


Also das ist jetzt alles so eine Reihe von Halb-Informationen, ich 
versuche das mal gradezuziehen ;)


Auf dem OSM-Datenbankserver:

D1. Daten werden hochgeladen und sind sofort in der zentralen DB vorhanden.

D2. Daten werden im Minuten-, Stunden- und Tagestakt in diff-Files 
geschrieben und warten da auf Abholung:


Auf dem Tileserver:

T1. In unregelmaessigen Abstaenden wird die Datenbank durch einen 
Vollimport aktualisiert (ca. alle 2 Monate).


T2. Ansonsten wird die Datenbank reglmaessig aus den diffs repliziert, 
und zwar aus den minuetlichen. Das geht in der Regel flott, wie die oben 
zitierte Grafik zeigt.


Diese Zeiten - normalerweise um die 1-2 Minuten, aber u.U. auch mal 12 
Stunden - geben an, wie lang es dauert, bis eine in der OSM-Datenbank 
gemachte Aenderung in der Datenbank auf dem Tileserver angekommen ist. 
Das heisst noch nicht, dass dann auch ein neues Tile gerendert wird.


T3. Wenn der Server gerade nicht ueberlastet ist, rechnet er von sich 
aus alle Kacheln auf Zoomlevel 14 (glaub ich) und hoeher neu, die sich 
aufgrund der in T2 uebernommenen Aendeurngen aendern muessten. Dabei 
wirden jedoch Relationen nicht beruecksichtigt, und es kann auch sonst 
mal aus verschiedenen technischen Gruenden zu Auslassungen kommen.


T4. Wenn eine Kachel angefordert wird und sich dabei herausstellt, dass 
sie aelter als der letzte Vollimport ist, wird sie vor oder nach 
Auslieferung neu gerendert.


T5. Kacheln unterhalb Zoomlevel 14 werden nicht automatisch neu 
gerendert; auch findet kein automatisches Neu-Rendering statt, wenn der 
Server beim Datenimport gerade zu viel Last hatte. In diesen Faellen 
wird das alte Tile bis zum ersten Abruf nach dem naechsten Vollimport 
erhalten bleiben, also u.U. einige Monate, ausser, es wird vorher aus 
anderem Grund neu gerendert.


T6. Man kann jederzeit manuell das Neurendern einer Kachel anfordern, 
ueber den Kachel-URL mit /dirty hintendran. Jemand hatte dafuer auch mal 
ein Webinterface, das find ich aber gerade nicht.



Bye
Frederik

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Re: [Talk-de] Touratech - Kartenrenderer

2011-02-01 Per discussione Garry

Hallo Jan

Am 31.01.2011 14:41, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck:



 Hi !

hat einer von Euch schon einmal Erfahrungen mit dem Kartenprogramm 
Touratech [1] gemacht ?


Gruß Jan :-)

[1] http://www.ttqv.com/produkte/touratech-qv-map/topografische-karten/


Ja - schon lange bevor es OSM gab :-)
Unterstützte schon frühzeitig sehr viele Kartenformate, insbesondere die 
TopXX-Serien der Landesvermessungsämter die sonst
kaum von einer (bezahlbaren) Fremdsoftware unterstützt wurden. Der 
kartenzugehörige Geogrid-Viewer taugte nicht viel.


Die aktuelle 5er Version die gerade auf den Markt kam unterstützt jetzt 
auch ausdrücklich die OSM-Karten im Online-Mode und kann
diese (sowie andere Karten und Luftbilder/Sataufnahmen) über ein 
3D-Höhenmodell legen so dass man sich wie in einem Flugsimulator durch 
die Landschaft bewegen kann.
Ein Blick darauf lohnt sich für den der eine kommerzielle 
Windows-Software kaufen würde - es gibt eine Testversion die 25Tage läuft.
Je nach Anwendungszweck gibt es unterschiedliche Versionen bis hin für 
den Rettungs-, Rally-Einsatz etc.  zur Visualisierung der 
Personen/Fahrzeuge in

der Karte.

So weit ich weiss wird TTQV neben dem OSM-Stand in Karlsruhe auf der 
Horizont-Outdor-Messe am nächsten Wochenende (4.-6.2.) vertreten sein.


Gruss
Garry

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Re: [Talk-de] Eintragung historischer Obejkte - Bahngelände

2011-02-01 Per discussione Garry

Am 30.01.2011 16:37, schrieb Stephan Wolff:


Flächen, die noch keine neue Nutzung haben (ehemaliges Militärgelände,
stillgelegte Fabrik, aufgegebener Bauernhof) kann man problemlos mit
landuse=disused, disused=[military, industial, farmyard, ...]
bezeichnen (analog zu stillgelegten Bahnstrecken). Die Tags stören
vermutlich keine existierenden Anwendungen und die meisten Mapper
können sie verstehen.

landuse=disused für Bahngelände gibt die Realtität falsch wieder!
Ein Bahngelände ist es nach wie vor so lange es nicht entwidmet 
(=abandoned) wurde.
Ob dort Züge fahren, Gleise liegen oder Müll und sonstiges gelagert wird 
spielt keine Rolle - es ist und bleibt ein Bahngelände.
Dies bedeuted grob das dort nichts verändert werden darf was eine 
Wiederinbetriebnahme ausschliesst

und somit jedes andere landuse quasi ausschliesst.

Gerald

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Re: [Talk-de] Eintragung historischer Obejkte - Bahngelände

2011-02-01 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 1. Februar 2011 15:20 schrieb Garry garr...@gmx.de:
 Am 30.01.2011 16:37, schrieb Stephan Wolff:

 Flächen, die noch keine neue Nutzung haben (ehemaliges Militärgelände,
 stillgelegte Fabrik, aufgegebener Bauernhof) kann man problemlos mit
 landuse=disused, disused=[military, industial, farmyard, ...]
 bezeichnen (analog zu stillgelegten Bahnstrecken). Die Tags stören
 vermutlich keine existierenden Anwendungen und die meisten Mapper
 können sie verstehen.

 landuse=disused für Bahngelände gibt die Realtität falsch wieder!
 Ein Bahngelände ist es nach wie vor so lange es nicht entwidmet (=abandoned)
 wurde.
 Ob dort Züge fahren, Gleise liegen oder Müll und sonstiges gelagert wird
 spielt keine Rolle - es ist und bleibt ein Bahngelände.
 Dies bedeuted grob das dort nichts verändert werden darf was eine
 Wiederinbetriebnahme ausschliesst
 und somit jedes andere landuse quasi ausschliesst.


wobei ja nicht gesagt ist, dass nicht genau Bahngelände durch die
Kombination landuse=disused, disused=rail ausgedrückt würde.
Bahngelände ohne aktive Bahnnutzung eben. Dadurch wird es ja nicht
entwidmet (landuse=abandoned, abandoned=rail) sondern bleibt ein
Bahngelände ;-)

Gruß Martin

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[Talk-de] Paderborn am Sonntag verwendet OpenStreetMap

2011-02-01 Per discussione Peter Wendorff

Hi.
Paderborn am Sonntag [1] ist eine der vielen kostenlos-Wochenzeitungen.
In Ausgabe der aktuellen Ausgabe und in der davor finden sich die ersten 
beiden Folgen einer Reihe über Jogging/Lauf-Strecken rund um Paderborn.


Zur (in Teil 1 falschen) Visualisierung wird die OSM-Mapnik-Karte als 
Basis benutzt;

in Teil 1 ist die Quellenangabe unvollständig,
in Teil 2 ist sie vermutlich durch die Überlagerung mit einem anderen 
Bild verloren gegangen - jedenfalls ein glaubwürdiges Versehen.


Ich bin vorhin mal bei denen in der Redaktion vorbeigegangen und hab 
darauf hingewiesen.

Es wurde Besserung gelobt für die kommende Ausgabe.
Außerdem hat der Chefredakteur sich meine Kontaktdaten aufgeschrieben 
für mögliche zukünfige Berichte über OSM etc.


Gruß
Peter

P.S.: Entschuldigt das Doppelposting, ich bin mir aber nicht sicher, ob 
alle OWL-leser talk-de mitlesen.


[1] http://www.pb-am-sonntag.de/

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[Talk-de] Performanceprobleme bei Mapnik/SQL

2011-02-01 Per discussione Stephan Wolff

Moin,

in meinen ersten Versuchen mit Mapnik habe ich eine Karte der
elektrischen Infrastruktur erstellt. Die Karte zeigt Stromleitungen
mit Kodierung von Spannung und Frequenz, Kraftwerke mit Energiequelle
und Leistung sowie Umspannwerke.
Ein Kartenausschnitt ist unter
http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?zoom=11lat=54.2584lon=10.03051layers=F0FFF0FFFB000T
erreichbar, der Mapnik-style unter
http://svn.toolserver.org/svnroot/p_osm/styles/powermap/ .

Der von mir erstellten Regeln führen leider zu sehr sehr langen
Renderzeiten. Zoomlevel 10 können nicht in erträglicher Zeit
berechnet werden. Offenbar führen die komplexen SQL-Abfragen zur
Auswertung nummerischer Zusatzdaten zu diesen Problemen.

Ich habe versucht, die Regeln zu vereinfachen, aber auch die neue
Version (http://toolserver.org/~seawolff/powerN.xml) ist sehr langsam.

Wer kann mir Tipps zur Verbesserung der Performance geben?
Gibt es Beispiele für die Auswertung nummerischer tags für Mapnik?

Viele Grüße, Stephan


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Re: [Talk-de] Leicht-OT: Garmin und JOSM-Absturz

2011-02-01 Per discussione Christian H. Bruhn
am Montag, 31. Januar 2011 um 23:40 schrieb Walter Nordmann:

 unter linux würde ich in so einem Fall josm in einem Terminalfenster
 starten. da steht dann mächtig viel drin.

Also ich habe es mal manuell aus einem Konsolenfenster (vulgo:
DOS-Fenster) geöffnet. Beim Absturz kommt folgende Meldung:

#
# A fatal error has been detected by the Java Runtime Environment:
#
#  EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION (0xc005) at pc=0x6d0807f6, pid=2172, 
tid=3468
#
# JRE version: 6.0_23-b05
# Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (19.0-b09 mixed mode windows-amd64 
compressed oops)
# Problematic frame:
# C  [awt.dll+0x807f6]
#
# An error report file with more information is saved as:
# c:\Program Files (x86)\OSM\JOSM\hs_err_pid2172.log
#
# If you would like to submit a bug report, please visit:
#   http://java.sun.com/webapps/bugreport/crash.jsp
# The crash happened outside the Java Virtual Machine in native code.
# See problematic frame for where to report the bug.
#

Die Log-Datei füge ich mal als Attachment bei, sofern die Liste das
zuläßt.

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Re: [Talk-de] Performanceprobleme bei Mapnik/SQL

2011-02-01 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 1. Februar 2011 17:17 schrieb Stephan Wolff s.wo...@web.de:
 Wer kann mir Tipps zur Verbesserung der Performance geben?
 Gibt es Beispiele für die Auswertung numerischer tags für Mapnik?


ich finde dieses Thema auch sehr interessant, vor allem die Frage, ob
die expliziten Typumwandlungen mit cast evtl. zu einer spürbaren
Verlangsamung führen. Hat da jemand schonmal Versuche angestellt?

Wie kostspielig sind order-by-Befehle? (Hier habe ich den Verdacht,
dass es wie ich es mir gedacht hatte, sowieso nicht funktioniert in
Mapnik: auch wenn ich mit order by die Reihenfolge versuche vorzugeben
entspricht das Ergebnis nicht dem erwarteten (bzw. nicht der
Reihenfolge, die derselbe Befehl in psql erzeugt. Hat dazu jemand
evtl. einen Tip?)

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Performanceprobleme bei Mapnik/SQL

2011-02-01 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hallo,

Stephan Wolff wrote:

Der von mir erstellten Regeln führen leider zu sehr sehr langen
Renderzeiten.


So komplizierte Regeln sind dann halt schon ein gutes Argument fuer eine 
eigene Datenbank, in der man diese Sachen, die man staendig braucht, 
ueber Trigger vorberechnen laesst. Ausserdem hat die Standard-Datenbank 
auch keine Indexe ausser dem geografischen; Deine Abfragen sind ja oft:


select haufen krimskrams from planet_osm_line where power=line

da wird dann ueber den GIN-Index alles rausgesucht, was in dem geogr. 
Bereich ist, und per table scan dann jede einzelne Linie angechaut, ob 
sie vielleicht power=line hat. In einer eigenen Datenbank koenntest Du 
einen kombinierten geografischen Index mit power=line machen, dann 
ginge das schneller. (Eventuell kannst Du die toolserver-Betreiber ja zu 
so einem Index ueberreden.) Alternativ koennte man auch power=line in 
die planet_osm_roads-Tabelle kopieren lassen, in der hat man normal die 
Autobahnen und andere grossraeumige Sachen, da ist der Zugriff 
schneller, weil weniger Kleinkram drin liegt.


Ansonsten rate ich dazu, das Loggin einzuschalten und mittels Verstand 
und/oder der Skripte in applications/rendering/mapnik/utils genauer 
herauszufinden, welche der Abfragen die Probleme machen.


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [Talk-de] Performanceprobleme bei Mapnik/SQL

2011-02-01 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 1. Februar 2011 19:09 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
 (Hier habe ich den Verdacht,
 dass es wie ich es mir gedacht hatte, sowieso nicht funktioniert in
 Mapnik: auch wenn ich mit order by die Reihenfolge versuche vorzugeben
 entspricht das Ergebnis nicht dem erwarteten (bzw. nicht der
 Reihenfolge, die derselbe Befehl in psql erzeugt. Hat dazu jemand
 evtl. einen Tip?)


den Verdacht ziehe ich zurück, entschuldigt bitte.

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Leicht-OT: Garmin und JOSM-Absturz

2011-02-01 Per discussione Christian H. Bruhn
am Dienstag, 1. Februar 2011 um 18:42 schrieb Christian H. Bruhn:

 Die Log-Datei füge ich mal als Attachment bei, sofern die Liste das
 zuläßt.

Ging nicht durch. Log liegt hier: http://pastebin.com/mbJYJ2Lx

Christian



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Re: [Talk-de] Performanceprobleme bei Mapnik/SQL

2011-02-01 Per discussione Stephan Wolff

Moin!

Am 01.02.2011 19:41, schrieb Frederik Ramm:

Stephan Wolff wrote:

Der von mir erstellten Regeln führen leider zu sehr sehr langen
Renderzeiten.


So komplizierte Regeln sind dann halt schon ein gutes Argument fuer eine
eigene Datenbank, in der man diese Sachen, die man staendig braucht,
ueber Trigger vorberechnen laesst.


Ich wollte doch nur eine einfache Overlaykarte basteln und hatte schon
Mühe genug, mich in die Mapnik-Konfiguration einzuarbeiten. Jetzt soll
ich auch noch eine Datenbank erstellen und pflegen ;-)


Ausserdem hat die Standard-Datenbank
auch keine Indexe ausser dem geografischen; Deine Abfragen sind ja oft:

select haufen krimskrams from planet_osm_line where power=line

da wird dann ueber den GIN-Index alles rausgesucht, was in dem geogr.
Bereich ist, und per table scan dann jede einzelne Linie angechaut, ob
sie vielleicht power=line hat.


Ich habe leider nicht genau verstanden, wie das render-Skript die
Abfragen zusammensetzt. Wenn erst die Datenbankobjekte zuerst
geografisch selektiert werden und danach der Test auf power=line
stattfindet, dann sollte  haufen krimskrams nur für wenige bis
wenige hundert Objekte (je nach  Zoomlevel) ausgeführt werden.
Laut tagwatch gibt es in Deutschland knapp 12000 mal power=line.
Die Standardkarte ruft select * from planet_line where power='line'
zusammen mit vielen weiteren Abfragen problemlos auf.


In einer eigenen Datenbank koenntest Du
einen kombinierten geografischen Index mit power=line machen, dann
ginge das schneller. (Eventuell kannst Du die toolserver-Betreiber ja zu
so einem Index ueberreden.) Alternativ koennte man auch power=line in
die planet_osm_roads-Tabelle kopieren lassen, in der hat man normal die
Autobahnen und andere grossraeumige Sachen, da ist der Zugriff
schneller, weil weniger Kleinkram drin liegt.


Wenn das die einzige, praktikable Lösung ist, muss ich darüber 
nachdenken, ob und wie der Vorschlag umsetzbar ist.



Ansonsten rate ich dazu, das Loggin einzuschalten und mittels Verstand
und/oder der Skripte in applications/rendering/mapnik/utils genauer
herauszufinden, welche der Abfragen die Probleme machen.


Das habe ich getan. Ganz trivial sind auch Tests in psql nicht, da die
Rechenzeit stark davon abhängt, ob dieselben Daten zuvor mit einer
anderen Abfrage selektiert wurden. Teilweise war die zweite, ähnliche
Abfrage um einen Faktor 10 schneller.
Zweifellos sind die geschachtelten Aufrufe
select haufen krimskrams from (select nochmehr krimskrams from ...)
für power=line und power=generator langsam. Ich weiß leider nicht, wie
ich sie bei gleicher Funktion beschleunigen kann.

Viele Grüße, Stephan



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Re: [Talk-de] Performanceprobleme bei Mapnik/SQL

2011-02-01 Per discussione Kolossos
Hallo, der hstore auf dem Toolserver ist meines Wissens indiziert, 
genutzt wird dieser Index bei einer eher lokalen Abfrage aber wohl 
erstmal nicht.


Vielleicht wäre es ja eine Idee erstmal einen temporären View auf 
power=*  innerhalb der BBOX zu kreieren und dann darauf in den folgenden 
20 Abfragen auf diesen stark reduzierten Datensatz zuzugreifen. Dazu gab 
es wohl schonmal irgendwie Diskussionen[1]. Keine Ahnung inwieweit 
Mapnik das aber unterstützt.


Grüße Tim

[1]http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg58867.html


Am 01.02.2011 19:41, schrieb Frederik Ramm:

Hallo,

Stephan Wolff wrote:

Der von mir erstellten Regeln führen leider zu sehr sehr langen
Renderzeiten.


So komplizierte Regeln sind dann halt schon ein gutes Argument fuer eine
eigene Datenbank, in der man diese Sachen, die man staendig braucht,
ueber Trigger vorberechnen laesst. Ausserdem hat die Standard-Datenbank
auch keine Indexe ausser dem geografischen; Deine Abfragen sind ja oft:

select haufen krimskrams from planet_osm_line where power=line

da wird dann ueber den GIN-Index alles rausgesucht, was in dem geogr.
Bereich ist, und per table scan dann jede einzelne Linie angechaut, ob
sie vielleicht power=line hat. In einer eigenen Datenbank koenntest Du
einen kombinierten geografischen Index mit power=line machen, dann
ginge das schneller. (Eventuell kannst Du die toolserver-Betreiber ja zu
so einem Index ueberreden.) Alternativ koennte man auch power=line in
die planet_osm_roads-Tabelle kopieren lassen, in der hat man normal die
Autobahnen und andere grossraeumige Sachen, da ist der Zugriff
schneller, weil weniger Kleinkram drin liegt.

Ansonsten rate ich dazu, das Loggin einzuschalten und mittels Verstand
und/oder der Skripte in applications/rendering/mapnik/utils genauer
herauszufinden, welche der Abfragen die Probleme machen.

Bye
Frederik






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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbildraetsel

2011-02-01 Per discussione Johann H. Addicks

Am 29.01.2011 00:54, schrieb Frederik Ramm:

was fuer eine Art von Tagebau ist das hier wohl?


Das ist ein Sand-Tagebau, auch gern als Kiesgrube bezeichnet.
So etwa:
http://www.addicks.net/albums/GeoCaching/DSCF0775.jpg
http://www.addicks.net/albums/GeoCaching/DSCF0742_001.jpg
http://www.addicks.net/albums/GeoCaching/DSCF0887.jpg
http://www.addicks.net/albums/GeoCaching/DSCF0831.jpg

-jha-


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Re: [Talk-de] Paderborn am Sonntag verwendet OpenStreetMap

2011-02-01 Per discussione fx99

Teil 2 ist wohl das hier: 
http://www.pb-am-sonntag.de/fileadmin/pbams/ausgaben/JG02/PBamS-02-04.pdf
Seite 8

Teil 1 müsste auch im Archiv zu finden sein. 

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Re: [Talk-de] Paderborn am Sonntag verwendet OpenStreetMap

2011-02-01 Per discussione Walter Nordmann

Selbst der Pfarrer ist OSM-Fan:

...  Ich glaube daran, dass Gott auch 
aus den verdrehten, krummen, 
holprigen Wegen, die am An-
fang dieses Jahres liegen, noch 
etwas Gutes erwachsen lassen 
wird. ...


Gruss
Walter

-
33,33% aller Statistiken beruhen auf kleinen Datenmengen.
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Re: [Talk-it] convegno per dati ambientali della laguna di venezia

2011-02-01 Per discussione Gianluca De Rossi
Il 30 gennaio 2011 19:14, G Zamboni ha scritto:
 Ciao,
 hai fatto benissimo!!
 Quasi, quasi ci vado...

Se ci vai poi mi racconti come è andata?
Purtroppo quel giorno di mattina ho un impegno improrogabile di lavoro.


-- 
Bigshot - Gianluca

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[Talk-it] tag lit

2011-02-01 Per discussione Fabri
Mi stavo chidendo come mai questo tag è ancora poco usato sulle strade.
Sarebbe utile inserirlo, in quanto indica se la strada è illuminata o
meno ed è possibile ottenere così anche delle mappe dell'inquinamento
luminoso come questa:
http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?zoom=2lat=0lon=0layers=B000F0TFF0

Per Roma si potrebbe inserirlo automaticamente in tutte, o almeno le
principali, e poi toglierlo a quelle che si conosce essere prive di
illuminazione. Che ne pensate?

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Re: [Talk-it] tag lit

2011-02-01 Per discussione Alberto Nogaro
-Original Message-
From: Fabri [mailto:erfab...@gmail.com]
Sent: martedì 1 febbraio 2011 20.59
To: openstreetmap list - italiano
Subject: [Talk-it] tag lit

Mi stavo chidendo come mai questo tag è ancora poco usato sulle strade.
Sarebbe utile inserirlo

Concordo, lit è uno dei miei pallini. Oltre che sulle strade, lo inserisco
anche sui vialetti pedonali e sulle ciclabili indipendenti. Quando i
lampioni sono troppo radi per decidere se è illuminata o meno, inserisco i
singoli lampioni come highway=street_lamp, spesso si riesce a individuarli
anche sulle foto aeree.

Per Roma si potrebbe inserirlo automaticamente in tutte, o almeno le
principali, e poi toglierlo a quelle che si conosce essere prive di
illuminazione. Che ne pensate?

-1 per l'inserimento automatico, a meno che tu non conosca e sia in grado di
correggere veramente tutte le strade prive di illuminazione. Rischiano di
rimanere indicate come illuminate delle strade che in realtà non lo sono, o
non si sa se lo siano.

Alberto


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Re: [Talk-es] Delirium mappens

2011-02-01 Per discussione Iván Sánchez Ortega
El día Tuesday 01 February 2011 09:04:50, Oscar Fonts dijo:
 No es 404. Parece mapnik. El rosa es menos chillón que el de OL. :D

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-2.85297051072121lon=-78.9930215477943z
oom=17

Hhhhmmm, es verdad. Eso parece un violeta, tono landuse=industrial. ¿Igual 
es algún polígono que se ha ido de madre?


-- 
Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es

Un ordenador no es una televisión ni un microondas: es una herramienta 
compleja.

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Re: [Talk-es] Delirium mappens

2011-02-01 Per discussione Iván Sánchez Ortega
El día Tuesday 01 February 2011 21:29:55, Temporalista dijo:
 Rosa? Fuccia? Morado? Violeta? Que finos con los colores.. Pa mi todos son
 el mismo ;P

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2298

-- 
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Re: [Talk-es] Delirium mappens

2011-02-01 Per discussione Colegota El Villano
Buenas,

El día 1 de febrero de 2011 20:43, Iván Sánchez Ortega
i...@sanchezortega.es escribió:
 El día Tuesday 01 February 2011 09:04:50, Oscar Fonts dijo:
 No es 404. Parece mapnik. El rosa es menos chillón que el de OL. :D

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-2.85297051072121lon=-78.9930215477943z
oom=17

 Hhhhmmm, es verdad. Eso parece un violeta, tono landuse=industrial. ¿Igual
 es algún polígono que se ha ido de madre?

Cuando dije que estaba por todas partes, me refería a todo el Mundo.
Me lo estoy encontrando por Indonesia. En zonas nada industriales y no
veo nada que tengan en común. No tengo ni idea de la causa o
justificación, tal vez los que andáis por las listas internacionales
podáis consultar allí.

Supongo que el sistema es el mismo y el dato no aporta nada, pero
ocurre también con el Osmand, la aplicación para Android cuando se
escoge Mapnik como fuente de mapa.

Saludos,
Colegota

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Re: [Talk-es] Recordatorio: sobre permisos de uso para importar datos

2011-02-01 Per discussione Colegota El Villano
Buenas,

El día 31 de enero de 2011 15:22, David Marín Carreño
dav...@gmail.com escribió:
 Creo que hay que hacer ambas cosas: seguir mapeando lo que queda (que no es
 poco) y corregir todo lo corregible.

Yo el día que queráis os puedo subir trazas de pueblos y carreteras
que no aparecen. Siento que mi aportación no pueda ser más, porque
responder correos hay temporadas que sí me resulta fácil, pero
sentarme a mapear es otra cosa. Y creedme que me gustaría.

Pero hace poco un usuario en identi.ca comentó que iba a mapear por
Indonesia y le subí trazas con las que luego mapeó. Aquí al estar el
PNOA las trazas no son tan importantes, pero siguen viniendo bien como
referencia. Y a lo mejor hay gente que dispone de tiempo y agradece
inspiración para ponerse con una zona.

Por si acaso, aquí un ejemplo en la provincia de Zaragoza [1] de un
pueblo que no existía y al menos le tracé las primeras calles. Subí
algunas trazas y tengo más de la zona.

[1] 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?minlon=-1.6218109minlat=41.7907445maxlon=-1.6097703maxlat=41.79691box=yes

Saludos,
Colegota

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Re: [Talk-ca] [AtlanticCanada] Introduction

2011-02-01 Per discussione Sam Vekemans
FYI,
Just an observation.


On the talk-ca mailing list, where i have attended and creating osm -
'mapping parties', i have noticed where the difference is from an
osgeo 'informal meeting'


The OSGeo Community (all things geo-related) is a much more
professional group.  The group members tend to be professional gis
people (in their day jobs).


Where-as, for OSM, there is a tendency (or at least in the begining)
for it to be 'weekend hobbiests, and geocaching, and maaping
inthusiasts'


So there is a contrast, which is known, but perhaps not apparent,
especially when writing notes to each mailing list.


Just an observation.  If OpenStreetMap Canada wants to become
osgeo-canada  this is where the data licence conflicts.


I can freely talk about 'commonmap and open map features, and
alternate api's at a osgeo-canada meetup, but that discussion is
'shunned' on the osm-ca mailing list and meetups.



Just an observation,


cheers,
sam

On 2/1/11, Timothy Astle timothy.as...@caris.com wrote:
 Great to hear from you Jarrett!

 To start off with, I'm not a GRASS user, so I can't help you there.  I'm
 sure that the GRASS mailing lists are the way to go for detailed
 discussions.  http://grass.fbk.eu/community/support.php

 You'll have to come out to our next meeting.  The meetings are informal
 social events to discuss all things GIS and of course, the free and open
 source software available.  It's a great way to network, learn and share
 ideas.

 Definitely get the word out on this group to your peers.  The more
 people that are involved, the better it is for all of us.

 Best wishes!


 Tim

 On 31/01/2011 6:51 PM, Jarrett Totton wrote:
 Hi All,

 I just figured I would introduce myself. My name is Jarrett Totton and
 I am a student at NBCC Moncton taking the GIS Diploma program. I am
 quite familiar with ESRI software, but when I came across GRASS it
 piqued my interest being a powerful GIS analysis engine without the
 powerful price-tag. I am not a programmer, my background is in
 forestry, but I want to master the use of GRASS (I am still in the
 learning phases, I know how to run it but am just learning where
 everything is) and learn how to develop my own modules in
 python(someday). I am quite interested in how people in the industry
 are using GRASS and other open source geospatial software and for what
 they are using it for. Also as a student I am interested in making
 myself as employable as possible for when I graduate and feel that
 GRASS and other free software will help with this.

 But enough about me. I also read in some of your previous emails that
 you as a group were seeking more involvement from schools and the
 like. I am sue if someone was interested they would be more than
 welcome to come to my school and introduce the organisation, and I
 could help arrange this.

 I would be very interested in sitting in on a meeting of the Atlantic
 Chapter of the Open Source Geospatial Foundation and would also like
 learning more about OSM and how I can contribute and how the data from
 OSM can be used in other projects and in what formats it can be used
 in.

 To end my short introduction of myself I would like to make a call for
 ideas for a project I have to do for school. I would be interested in
 solving a real world problem that has readily available data and would
 show the capabilities of GRASS.

 Thank you for your time,

 Jarrett Totton
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[Talk-ca] Digitizing over an aerial photo

2011-02-01 Per discussione Yves Moisan

Hi All,

I have a trivia for you license-interested/competent folks.  Say I have 
a recent aerial photo coverage of a really nice town that I'd like to 
use to digitize features, is there an issue if the photo is private 
(city-owned) ?  The way I see it is that if I'm digitizing a 
point/line/polygon and assigning it attributes, I'm really 
photo-interpreting so the data is mine.  Of course the underlying 
photograph helped, but it's not data per se.  Any arguments/counter 
arguments or real legalese pointers ?


TIA,

Yves

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Re: [Talk-ca] Digitizing over an aerial photo

2011-02-01 Per discussione Richard Weait
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Yves Moisan yves.moi...@boreal-is.com wrote:
 Hi All,

 I have a trivia for you license-interested/competent folks.  Say I have a
 recent aerial photo coverage of a really nice town that I'd like to use to
 digitize features, is there an issue if the photo is private (city-owned) ?
  The way I see it is that if I'm digitizing a point/line/polygon and
 assigning it attributes, I'm really photo-interpreting so the data is
 mine.  Of course the underlying photograph helped, but it's not data per
 se.  Any arguments/counter arguments or real legalese pointers ?

The policy of the OpenStreetMap community is that we hold ourselves to
a very high standard when we respect the works and rights of others.
And so any action that is not clearly and explicitly permitted by a
rights holder, is not permitted as a source for OpenStreetMap
contributions.

As an example, we have permission from Bing / Microsoft to use Bing
imagery for tracing / photo-interpretation.  So we can do that.

We don't have permission from Google to use Google aerial imagery for
the same purpose.  So we don't do that.

Please get permission from the rights holder to use that image for
photo interpretation.

Best regards,
Richard

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Re: [Talk-ca] Digitizing over an aerial photo

2011-02-01 Per discussione Yves Moisan

Le 2011-02-01 16:46, Richard Weait a écrit :

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Yves Moisanyves.moi...@boreal-is.com  wrote:

Hi All,

I have a trivia for you license-interested/competent folks.  Say I have a
recent aerial photo coverage of a really nice town that I'd like to use to
digitize features, is there an issue if the photo is private (city-owned) ?
  The way I see it is that if I'm digitizing a point/line/polygon and
assigning it attributes, I'm really photo-interpreting so the data is
mine.  Of course the underlying photograph helped, but it's not data per
se.  Any arguments/counter arguments or real legalese pointers ?

The policy of the OpenStreetMap community is that we hold ourselves to
a very high standard when we respect the works and rights of others.
And so any action that is not clearly and explicitly permitted by a
rights holder, is not permitted as a source for OpenStreetMap
contributions.
As an example, we have permission from Bing / Microsoft to use Bing
imagery for tracing / photo-interpretation.  So we can do that.

We don't have permission from Google to use Google aerial imagery for
the same purpose.  So we don't do that.

Please get permission from the rights holder to use that image for
photo interpretation.

Hi Richard,

Fair enough.  I wasn't going to digitize features in a whole town 
without some sort of permissions.  Plus, I won't be alone anyhow.  The 
real question is how does that translate in the digitized features ?  Do 
I need to add a feature attribution attribute mentioning where from it 
was digitized or is just getting the you can go ahead and trace go 
from the photo owner good enough a proof ?


In my opinion it is neither accurate nor fair to say feature X belongs 
to whoever is the owner of the base data out of which it was *created* 
through the act of photo-interpretation.  Technically, the feature's 
attribution really is that of the digitizer.  This doesn't mean I want 
to go ahead and pretend I have drawn a feature myself as I would do over 
my own GPS traces, but I sure wouldn't attribute a feature I drew 
(potentially compensating for radial displacement etc. while digitizing) 
to the owner of a photograph.  How do we go about this so that is fair 
to both the base data provider and the real data (i.e. feature) 
provider ?


Thanx,

Yves


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[OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau rendu osm.org/mapnik du bati ?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Jeremy G
Salut à tous,

Sur http://tinyurl.com/6zu895s, je me pose la question de la différence de
rendu dans le bâti du haut et du bas de l'image...
Est-ce que j'ai raté l'info et que le rendu bâti a été mis à jour ?

Jérémy
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[OSM-talk-fr] quelqu'un cherche l'auteur et/ou les sources de rawedit

2011-02-01 Per discussione Pieren
Je renvoie sur cette liste la demande de quelqu'un cherchant l'auteur
(Etienne Chové ?) et/ou les sources de l'application rawedit abritée sur
un des serveurs du cran. Si quelqu'un peut l'aider...

-- Forwarded message --
From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:24 AM
Subject: [OSM-talk] Anyone know who wrote rawedit?
To: Open Street Map mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org


Hi all,
 So, as discussed on another thread, I'm trying to use
rawedit.openstreetmap.fr to undelete a relation, but am getting XML
parser errors. Anyone know who I can contact, or where to get the
source from?

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau rendu osm.org/mapnik du bati ?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Vincent Pottier

Le 01/02/2011 10:36, Jeremy G a écrit :

Salut à tous,

Sur http://tinyurl.com/6zu895s, je me pose la question de la 
différence de rendu dans le bâti du haut et du bas de l'image...

Est-ce que j'ai raté l'info et que le rendu bâti a été mis à jour ?

Jérémy


Et pas seulement le bâti :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_Updates/2011-01-10#Mapnik_Updates
--
FrViPofm

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau rendu osm.org/mapnik du bati ?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Nicolas Dumoulin
Le mardi 1 février 2011 10:36:29 Jeremy G, vous avez écrit :
 Salut à tous,
 
 Sur http://tinyurl.com/6zu895s, je me pose la question de la différence de
 rendu dans le bâti du haut et du bas de l'image...
 Est-ce que j'ai raté l'info et que le rendu bâti a été mis à jour ?

Je n'ai vu aucune info, mais en effet le rendu a changé :-)

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] National 2x2 voies à chaussée séparée

2011-02-01 Per discussione Pieren
trunk chez-nous s'applique aux voies express/rapides. Si la voie est
temporairement limitée à 90 au lieu de 110, cela ne change pas son statut et
peut donc rester en trunk.
Il y a aussi des exceptions - malheureusement - comme précité. Viendra sans
doute un jour où il faudra faire un peu le ménage en se basant sur une
définition unique et cohérente pour tout le territoire français.

Pieren
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] National 2x2 voies à chaussée séparée

2011-02-01 Per discussione Eric Sibert
Note : j'ai toujours du mal à comprendre ce que les vitesses  
viennent faire dans un travail de description.


De mon point de vue, les vitesses limite sont un indice au même titre  
que les panneaux, la présence de bande d'arrêt d'urgence ou le  
marquage du classement administratif de la voie. On pourrait aussi  
chercher au Journal Officiel ce genre de classement. A nous ensuite de  
voir comment on met (ou pas) en relation ce classement administratif  
avec la classification OSM.


Eric


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] National 2x2 voies à chaussée séparée

2011-02-01 Per discussione f . dos . santos
Selon Pieren pier...@gmail.com:

 trunk chez-nous s'applique aux voies express/rapides. Si la voie est
 temporairement limitée à 90 au lieu de 110, cela ne change pas son statut et
 peut donc rester en trunk.
 Il y a aussi des exceptions - malheureusement - comme précité. Viendra sans
 doute un jour où il faudra faire un peu le ménage en se basant sur une
 définition unique et cohérente pour tout le territoire français.

 Pieren



La N4 est en effet un bon exemple.
Je l'ai toujours vu en trunk jusqu'à la N104 ce qui me paraissait logique.
Elle est passé récemment en primary et ce changement ne m'apparait pas comme une
erreur : la portion est limitée à 90 pour une bonne raison, la route est plus
étroite (pas bande d'arrêt d'urgence d'où un sentiment d'oppression).
Du coup taggué en primary + primary_link des voies séparés me parait aussi une
bonne idée.

Difficile de se décider :-)

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Un rendu statique pour ma commune

2011-02-01 Per discussione Nicolas Dumoulin
Le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 09:31:01 Nicolas Dumoulin, vous avez écrit :
 Le tuto doit toujours suivre, mais d'abord il faut que je termine des
 cartes pour un congrès et que je mette au point l'application de saisie et
 d'affichage pour le PLD …

La pression de « Image of the week » faisant, voilà quelques explications en 
anglais et le source de mon script :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:NicolasDumoulin/PlanStatique/DICRIM

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau rendu osm.org/mapnik du bati ?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Jeremy G
Le 1 février 2011 10:57, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com a écrit :



  Et pas seulement le bâti :

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_Updates/2011-01-10#Mapnik_Updates


En effet, merci pour le lien. Ca m'a mené à aller voir du côté du trac OSM
pour les mises à jour de la feuille de style (
http://trac.openstreetmap.org/log/applications/rendering/mapnik/osm.xml).
Je n'y retrouve pas ce changement sur le bâti... A fouiller.

Jérémy
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau rendu osm.org/mapnik du bati ?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Nicolas Dumoulin
Le mardi 1 février 2011 12:21:25 Jeremy G, vous avez écrit :
 Le 1 février 2011 10:57, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com a écrit :
   Et pas seulement le bâti :
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_Updates/2011-01-10#Mapnik_Up
  dates
 
 En effet, merci pour le lien. Ca m'a mené à aller voir du côté du trac OSM
 pour les mises à jour de la feuille de style (
 http://trac.openstreetmap.org/log/applications/rendering/mapnik/osm.xml).
 Je n'y retrouve pas ce changement sur le bâti... A fouiller.

Ça doit se passer par là :
http://trac.openstreetmap.org/log/applications/rendering/mapnik/inc/layer-
buildings.xml.inc?rev=25204
http://trac.openstreetmap.org/changeset/24958/applications/rendering/mapnik/inc/layer-
buildings.xml.inc

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau rendu osm.org/mapnik du bati ?

2011-02-01 Per discussione Jeremy G
Le 1 février 2011 12:36, Nicolas Dumoulin nicolas_openstreetmap.org@
dumoulin63.net a écrit :

 Le mardi 1 février 2011 12:21:25 Jeremy G, vous avez écrit :
  Le 1 février 2011 10:57, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com a écrit :
Et pas seulement le bâti :
  
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_Updates/2011-01-10#Mapnik_Up
   dates
 
  En effet, merci pour le lien. Ca m'a mené à aller voir du côté du trac
 OSM
  pour les mises à jour de la feuille de style (
  http://trac.openstreetmap.org/log/applications/rendering/mapnik/osm.xml
 ).
  Je n'y retrouve pas ce changement sur le bâti... A fouiller.

 Ça doit se passer par là :
 http://trac.openstreetmap.org/log/applications/rendering/mapnik/inc/layer-
 buildings.xml.inc?rev=25204

 http://trac.openstreetmap.org/changeset/24958/applications/rendering/mapnik/inc/layer-
 buildings.xml.inc


En effet, merci pour le lien :)
J.



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] National 2x2 voies à chaussée séparée

2011-02-01 Per discussione Thomas Clavier
Le 01/02/2011 11:59, Eric Sibert a écrit :
  On pourrait aussi chercher au Journal Officiel ce genre de
 classement. A nous ensuite de voir comment on met (ou pas) en relation
 ce classement administratif avec la classification OSM.

pour moi c'est totalement dé-corrélé, le classement administratif est
une chose, le classement dans OSM une autre. La logique et les objectifs
de chacun étant différents.
Prenons un exemple une ville qui considère que la rue principale c'est
la rue la plus commerçante qui traverse la ville de part en part. C'est
la rue la plus importante de la commune. Objectif de la mairie faire en
sorte qu'un maximum de touriste passent par cette rue pour y dépenser de
l'argent.

En temps que rue principale, c'est cette rue qui sera sablé en premier.
Le problème c'est qu'à une des extrémités il y a une ancienne porte du
12ieme, et la saleuse ne passe pas par la porte en question ... perte de
temps assuré en cas d'intempéries ... et les gps poussent à traverser la
ville ... les camping-car ne passent pas non-plus ... imaginez le bazard
en période estival.

Les objectifs de chacun sont différents, on à d'un côté la ville qui
souhaite avoir un max de visiteurs, et de l'autre des usagées locaux qui
savent très bien que la rue qui contourne le centre est capable
d'absorber un trafic bien plus important.

Perso j'ai envie de tagger façon locaux. Les stratèges
politico-financiers de certains ne doivent pas entrer en ligne de compte
pour établir une carte qui reflète la réalité des gens qui vivent sur
place. Et je suis convaincu qu'il existe un très grand nombre d'exemple
comme celui-ci.

-- 
Thomas Clavier http://www.tcweb.org
Jabber/XMPP/MSN/Gtalk :t...@jabber.tcweb.org
+33 (0)6 20 81 81 30   +33 (0)950 783 783




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Un rendu statique pour ma commune

2011-02-01 Per discussione Maurice
Salut Nicolas, les osmmappeurs,

Nicolas Dumoulin nicolas_openstreetmap@dumoulin63.net écrivit :

 Le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 09:31:01 Nicolas Dumoulin, vous avez écrit :

 La pression de « Image of the week » faisant, voilà quelques explications en 
 anglais et le source de mon script :
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:NicolasDumoulin/PlanStatique/DICRIM

Sensible à l'avis d'un cartographe, je remarque deux graves manquements
sur ta carte:
1) l'orientation, même si on peut supposer le nord par défaut en haut de la
   carte;
2) l'échelle, indispensable.

À ce sujet j'avais posé une question à la fin du message ci-dessous
restée sans réponse :
http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-fr@openstreetmap.org/msg28747.html

Maurice (alias momovimout), qui te soutient pour que chacun ait la
possibilité de créer des cartes de qualité.

PS Mon sang se glace à la pensée que la licence est modifiée au moment
où le créateur d'Osm s'emploie chez Microsoft; à la sombre perspective
de devoir utiliser Windows pour avoir des rendus de qualité, qualité
dont le matériau originel est *d'abord* le produit du travail minutieux
et exigeant des contributeurs.

Voir sur le site :
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Why_You_Should_Decline
l'extrait ci-dessous :   

--8---couper ici---début-8---
  Making Copies of your maps may not be allowed

Since ODBL makes it possible to put your rendered map under a
restrictive license, you might find that you are not allowed to make a
copy of a map that you have created but someone else has
rendered. E.g. You collect data and draws a map, this mapdata that must
always be copyable, but if someone renders that data to an image then
they are allowed to put what ever restrictions they want on it's
use. Erik Johansson 22:48, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

The intention of the current CC license is that all derivative work is
share alike (the extent that it achieves this is disputed). The ODbL
intentionally changes this to allow raster maps to be of any
license. This might not be desirable as some people prefer use of their
work to be continued to be kept share alike to promote reuse of
publications. This would prevent merging of OSM with data sets with less
free license terms. I tend to think of those data sets to be inferior
due to their terms of use. I therefore don't necessarily want my work
being mixed with restrictive mapping data. This is analogous to the LGPL
vs. GPL in software licensing with respect to relicensing AFAIK. --TimSC
11:41, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
--8---couper ici---fin---8-- 

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Un rendu statique pour ma commune

2011-02-01 Per discussione Nicolas Dumoulin
Le mardi 1 février 2011 15:20:05 Maurice, vous avez écrit :
 Sensible à l'avis d'un cartographe, je remarque deux graves manquements
 sur ta carte:
 1) l'orientation, même si on peut supposer le nord par défaut en haut de la
carte;
 2) l'échelle, indispensable.

Je te l'accorde, mais ça faisait pas partie de la demande :-)
J'ai fait d'autres plans avec ces informations complémentaires
http://osm.dumoulin63.net/rendus/fub2011.zip

Pour générer l'échelle, voici mon code (pas encore documenté, mais une doc est 
à venir encore une fois) :

# constant used to convert from metres (i.e. map units) to points (i.e. 
screen/paper units)
# (72 points per inch, 1/2.54 inches per cm) see 
http://oliverobrien.co.uk/2010/03/map-adornments-with-cairo/
S2P=72/0.0254
factor=2

def myCairoDraw(m, map_uri, imgx, imgy):
  # With cairo
  import cairo, math
  surface = cairo.ImageSurface (cairo.FORMAT_ARGB32, imgx, imgy)
  ctx = cairo.Context(surface)
  mapnik.render(m, ctx)

  legendW=550*factor
  legendH=150*factor
  ctx.translate (imgx-legendW, imgy-legendH)

  # Frame
  pat = cairo.LinearGradient (0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 150.0)
  pat.add_color_stop_rgba (1, 0.8, 0.8, 0.8, 0.5) # First stop, 50% opacity
  pat.add_color_stop_rgba (0, 1, 1, 1, 1) # Last stop, 100% opacity
  ctx.rectangle (0, 0, legendW, legendH) # Rectangle(x0, y0, x1, y1)
  ctx.set_source (pat)
  ctx.fill ()

  ctx.set_source_rgb(0.2, 0.2, 0.2)
  ctx.select_font_face(Georgia, cairo.FONT_SLANT_NORMAL, 
cairo.FONT_WEIGHT_BOLD)
  ctx.translate(50*factor,0)
  # Title
  ctx.translate(0,40*factor)
  ctx.move_to(0, 0)
  ctx.set_font_size(14*factor)
  ctx.show_text(Congrès de la FUB 2011 − Clermont-Ferrand)
  ctx.set_font_size(12*factor)
  # Scale
  ctx.translate(0,40*factor)
  drawScale(ctx, 270*factor,m.scale_denominator())
  
  # Orientation
  ctx.save()
  ctx.translate(350*factor, 0)
  ctx.set_font_size(16*factor)
  ctx.move_to(0,0)
  ctx.show_text(N)
  ctx.set_font_size(12*factor)
  ctx.translate(30*factor, 0)
  ctx.set_line_width(1*factor)
  ctx.move_to(0, -20*factor)
  ctx.line_to(10*factor, 10*factor)
  ctx.line_to(0, 5*factor)
  ctx.line_to(-10*factor, 10*factor)
  ctx.close_path()
  ctx.fill()
  ctx.restore()
  # Attribution text
  ctx.translate(0,40*factor)
  ctx.move_to(0, 0)
  ctx.show_text(Données © OpenStreetMap et ses contributeurs CC-By-SA-2.0)
  
  surface.write_to_png (map_uri)

def drawScale(ctx, length, scale):
  scaleMeters=length/scale*S2P
  divider=1;
  while (scaleMeters/divider  10):
divider = divider * 10;
  maxMeters=int(scaleMeters)/divider*divider
  maxScaleLength = maxMeters*scale/S2P
  #print str(scale)+ +str(270/scale*S2P)+ +str(divider)+  
+str(maxMeters)+ +str(maxScaleLength)
  ctx.set_line_width(3*factor)
  ctx.move_to(0, 10*factor)
  ctx.line_to(maxScaleLength, 10*factor)
  ctx.stroke()
  drawScaleTick(ctx, ctx.get_line_width())
  drawScaleTick(ctx, maxScaleLength/2)
  drawScaleTick(ctx, maxScaleLength)
  ctx.move_to(-10*factor, 0)
  ctx.show_text(0)
  ctx.move_to(maxScaleLength/2-20*factor, 0)
  ctx.show_text(str(maxMeters/2)+m)
  ctx.move_to(maxScaleLength-20*factor, 0)
  ctx.show_text(str(maxMeters)+m)

def drawScaleTick(ctx, position):
  ctx.move_to(position-ctx.get_line_width()/2, 10*factor)
  ctx.line_to(position-ctx.get_line_width()/2, 5*factor)
  ctx.stroke()


-- 
Nicolas Dumoulin
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:NicolasDumoulin

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[OSM-talk-fr] Erreur manifeste

2011-02-01 Per discussione Rodolphe Quiedeville
Salut,

http://osm.org/go/er4q9gW9-

De bien drôles de routes, si des normands veulent corriger.

A++

-- 
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Travailleur indépendant spécialisé en logiciel libre
http://rodolphe.quiedeville.org/
SIP/XMPP : rodol...@quiedeville.org

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Erreur manifeste

2011-02-01 Per discussione rldhont

ça se supprime sans réfléchir non ?

D'après l'orthophoto ça ne correspond à rien du tout.

J'ai plus qu'à valider!

René-Luc

Le 01/02/2011 17:23, Rodolphe Quiedeville a écrit :

Salut,

http://osm.org/go/er4q9gW9-

De bien drôles de routes, si des normands veulent corriger.

A++




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Erreur manifeste

2011-02-01 Per discussione Philippe Pary
Le mardi 01 février 2011 à 17:40 +0100, rldhont a écrit :
 ça se supprime sans réfléchir non ?

On contacte l'auteur tout de même

Philippe


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] National 2x2 voies à chaussée séparée

2011-02-01 Per discussione hpmt

Pieren a écrit , Le 01/02/2011 11:00:

.. il faudra faire un peu le ménage en se basant sur
une définition unique et cohérente pour tout le territoire français.


+1
+1
+1
et encore, je dirais même, +1.

Hélène
User:HelenePETIT


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] quelqu'un cherche l'auteur et/ou les sources de rawedit

2011-02-01 Per discussione yvecai
Je plussoie, j'ai découvert çà il y a peu de temps, et c'est vraiment un 
chouette outil!


Yves

On 01. 02. 11 10:53, Pieren wrote:
Je renvoie sur cette liste la demande de quelqu'un cherchant l'auteur 
(Etienne Chové ?) et/ou les sources de l'application rawedit abritée 
sur un des serveurs du cran. Si quelqu'un peut l'aider...


-- Forwarded message --
From: *Steve Bennett* stevag...@gmail.com mailto:stevag...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:24 AM
Subject: [OSM-talk] Anyone know who wrote rawedit?
To: Open Street Map mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org 
mailto:t...@openstreetmap.org



Hi all,
 So, as discussed on another thread, I'm trying to use
rawedit.openstreetmap.fr http://rawedit.openstreetmap.fr to undelete 
a relation, but am getting XML

parser errors. Anyone know who I can contact, or where to get the
source from?

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] quelqu'un cherche l'auteur et/ou les sources de rawedit

2011-02-01 Per discussione Jocelyn Jaubert
Bonjour,

Le 1 février 2011, Pieren a écrit :
 Je renvoie sur cette liste la demande de quelqu'un cherchant l'auteur
 (Etienne Chové ?) et/ou les sources de l'application rawedit
 abritée sur un des serveurs du cran. Si quelqu'un peut l'aider...

J'ai mis les sources sur http://rawedit.openstreetmap.fr/src/

Je vais répondre en privé à Steve pour ne pas polluer la mailing list.

Merci,
Jocelyn


 
 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com
 Date: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:24 AM
 Subject: [OSM-talk] Anyone know who wrote rawedit?
 To: Open Street Map mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org
 
 
 Hi all,
  So, as discussed on another thread, I'm trying to use
 rawedit.openstreetmap.fr to undelete a relation, but am getting XML
 parser errors. Anyone know who I can contact, or where to get the
 source from?
 
 Steve
 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] quelqu'un cherche l'auteur et/ou les sources de rawedit

2011-02-01 Per discussione Pieren
2011/2/1 Jocelyn Jaubert jocelyn.jaub...@gmail.com


 J'ai mis les sources sur http://rawedit.openstreetmap.fr/src/

 Je vais répondre en privé à Steve pour ne pas polluer la mailing list.


Merci pour lui ;-) Peut-on envisager de les mettre dans le dépôt SVN d'
openstreetmap.org ?

Pieren
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] National 2x2 voies à chaussée séparée

2011-02-01 Per discussione Marc Sibert

Le 01/02/2011 14:22, Thomas Clavier a écrit :

Le 01/02/2011 11:59, Eric Sibert a écrit :
   

  On pourrait aussi chercher au Journal Officiel ce genre de
classement. A nous ensuite de voir comment on met (ou pas) en relation
ce classement administratif avec la classification OSM.
 

...

Perso j'ai envie de tagger façon locaux. Les stratèges
politico-financiers de certains ne doivent pas entrer en ligne de compte
pour établir une carte qui reflète la réalité des gens qui vivent sur
place. Et je suis convaincu qu'il existe un très grand nombre d'exemple
comme celui-ci.
   

Bonsoir,

Le problème avec les raisonnements locaux, c'est qu'on retrouve des 
primary au bas de chaque maison de contributeur, parce qu'après tout la 
rue principale c'est bien celle que j'emprunte tous les jours.


Non, vraiment non, il faut penser globalement pour OSM, voir 
mondialement, sinon aucun traitement ne pourra être généralisé à 
l'ensemble de la base (confère le problème de nominatim : trollet si 
le problème c'était les contributeurs français ?/troll).


A+

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] National 2x2 voies à chaussée séparée

2011-02-01 Per discussione Christian Rogel

Le 01/02/11 11:59, Eric Sibert a écrit :



Note : j'ai toujours du mal à comprendre ce que les vitesses viennent
faire dans un travail de description.


De mon point de vue, les vitesses limite sont un indice au même titre
que les panneaux, la présence de bande d'arrêt d'urgence ou le marquage
du classement administratif de la voie. On pourrait aussi chercher au
Journal Officiel ce genre de classement. A nous ensuite de voir comment
on met (ou pas) en relation ce classement administratif avec la
classification OSM.

Eric


Le classement après coup au JO n'a pas grand-chose à voir avec le 
terrain, car ce n'est plus l'Etat qui définit les ouvrages, hors RN.
J'ai cité la D100 qui contourne Quimper au NW, car elle constitue un cas 
d'école.
Elle a été construite  entre 2005 et 2009 et avait été annoncée comme 
une voie rapide, la maîtrise d'ouvrage ayant, par ailleurs, été 
rétrocédée par la communauté d'agglo au CG et la route a été calibrée 
das cette optique (grands échangeurs, bretelles longues, voies 
d'urgence, chaussées à des niveaux différents sur un viaduc courbe).
Un peu avant son achèvement, la Communauté d'agglo a annoncé qu'elle 
serait finalement qualifiée en boulevard urbain et que la vitesse serait 
donc limitée à 90 km/h.
Cela s'inscrit dans une politique propre à une collectivité publique où 
les Verts ont une certaine influence en matière d'urbanisme.
C'est une décision politique et il est donc juste que la D100 ait été 
taggée (pas par moi) comme trunk.

Qu'est-ce que 20 km/h de moins, surtout avec un régulateur de vitesse?
Dans ce cas, c'est le terrain d'abord, la politique routière locale après.

Christian



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] National 2x2 voies à chaussée séparée

2011-02-01 Per discussione Gérard
Se focaliser sur la vitesse maxi autorisée, n'est pas se leurer? Dans une
zone urbaine, la façon dont sont aménagées les intersections importe
davantage sur le temps qu'on mettra (hors encombrements) pour parcourir cet
axe que la vitesse de pointe. S'il y a des échangeurs, on n' a pas à
ralentir comme quand il y a des ronds points tous les 400m.
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Re: [OSM-ja] Bing の高解像度なエリア

2011-02-01 Per discussione Tomomichi Hayakawa
Tomです。

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm

これを、GPXに変換して、GoogleMapsに読み込ませてみました。
http://maps.google.co.jp/maps/ms?ie=UTF8hl=jabrcurrent=3,0x34674e0fd77f192f:0xf54275d47c665244,0msa=0msid=214659934638657454830.00049b08f36a3b6bbf6c0z=5
これで、高解像度エリアをGoogleMaps 上で確認出来ます。

本当は、BingMaps でやりたかったけど、わかんなかったんで・・・


 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

Bing航空写真をシゲシゲ眺めていて、驚いたんですが、
愛知県の三河から長野県への航空写真は、昨年(2010年)撮影された航空写真で、とっても新鮮そうです(笑)

しかも、完全な山間部ですので、既存の地図もあまり充実してないエリアかと思います。
トレースのし甲斐がありますね。



2011年2月1日16:22 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp:
 ikiyaです。

 あらためて
 OSMでの地図トレース利用が認められているBing航空写真ですが
 高解像度写真のカバー範囲を知りたい方へお知らせです。

 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm


 
 Get the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo! JAPAN

 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja



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Re: [OSM-ja] Bing の高解像度なエリア

2011-02-01 Per discussione Yoichi Seino
清野です。

GoogleMapsを使わなくても、
背景にOSMが表示されて、その上に矩形を表示できるようなサイトのほうが便利なのではないですか?
というわけで、CloudMadeのサービス
http://maps.cloudmade.com/
で表示したほうがいいのではないかと思うのですが、いかがでしょうか?
もちろん、OSM Wiki上などで独自に表示できる方法があるならば、それに越したことはありませんが、
その方法は今ちょっと調べている時間がありません。
もしご存じの方がいらっしゃいましたらご教示下さいませ。

以上です。


2011年2月1日17:29 Tomomichi Hayakawa tom.hayak...@gmail.com:
 Tomです。

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm

 これを、GPXに変換して、GoogleMapsに読み込ませてみました。
 http://maps.google.co.jp/maps/ms?ie=UTF8hl=jabrcurrent=3,0x34674e0fd77f192f:0xf54275d47c665244,0msa=0msid=214659934638657454830.00049b08f36a3b6bbf6c0z=5
 これで、高解像度エリアをGoogleMaps 上で確認出来ます。

 本当は、BingMaps でやりたかったけど、わかんなかったんで・・・


 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 Bing航空写真をシゲシゲ眺めていて、驚いたんですが、
 愛知県の三河から長野県への航空写真は、昨年(2010年)撮影された航空写真で、とっても新鮮そうです(笑)

 しかも、完全な山間部ですので、既存の地図もあまり充実してないエリアかと思います。
 トレースのし甲斐がありますね。



 2011年2月1日16:22 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp:
 ikiyaです。

 あらためて
 OSMでの地図トレース利用が認められているBing航空写真ですが
 高解像度写真のカバー範囲を知りたい方へお知らせです。

 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm


 
 Get the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo! JAPAN

 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja



 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja


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Re: [OSM-ja] Bing の高解像度なエリア

2011-02-01 Per discussione Yoichi Seino
清野です。

失礼しました。
CloudMadeで以下のような矩形に囲むようなサービスが提供されていたような気がしていたのですが、
どうやら間違いだったみたいです。失礼いたしました。
取り急ぎ訂正いたします。


2011年2月1日20:09 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 GoogleMapsを使わなくても、
 背景にOSMが表示されて、その上に矩形を表示できるようなサイトのほうが便利なのではないですか?
 というわけで、CloudMadeのサービス
 http://maps.cloudmade.com/
 で表示したほうがいいのではないかと思うのですが、いかがでしょうか?
 もちろん、OSM Wiki上などで独自に表示できる方法があるならば、それに越したことはありませんが、
 その方法は今ちょっと調べている時間がありません。
 もしご存じの方がいらっしゃいましたらご教示下さいませ。

 以上です。


 2011年2月1日17:29 Tomomichi Hayakawa tom.hayak...@gmail.com:
 Tomです。

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm

 これを、GPXに変換して、GoogleMapsに読み込ませてみました。
 http://maps.google.co.jp/maps/ms?ie=UTF8hl=jabrcurrent=3,0x34674e0fd77f192f:0xf54275d47c665244,0msa=0msid=214659934638657454830.00049b08f36a3b6bbf6c0z=5
 これで、高解像度エリアをGoogleMaps 上で確認出来ます。

 本当は、BingMaps でやりたかったけど、わかんなかったんで・・・


 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 Bing航空写真をシゲシゲ眺めていて、驚いたんですが、
 愛知県の三河から長野県への航空写真は、昨年(2010年)撮影された航空写真で、とっても新鮮そうです(笑)

 しかも、完全な山間部ですので、既存の地図もあまり充実してないエリアかと思います。
 トレースのし甲斐がありますね。



 2011年2月1日16:22 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp:
 ikiyaです。

 あらためて
 OSMでの地図トレース利用が認められているBing航空写真ですが
 高解像度写真のカバー範囲を知りたい方へお知らせです。

 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm


 
 Get the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo! JAPAN

 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja



 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja



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Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-ja] Bing の高解像度なエリア

2011-02-01 Per discussione Yoichi Seino
清野です。

ちょっと調べてみた感じでは、
「OSM SlippyMap Generator」
http://osmtools.de/easymap/index.php
このサイトが、OSMの地図を背景に色々と不可情報を書きこんでHTMLを作るサイトとしてあるみたいです。
ただ、恒久的な表示はできず(一時的には保存されます)、
HTMLを生成した後は、どこかにそのHTMLを保存して公開しなければならないのが不便です。
例えば以下のような感じです。
http://osmtools.de/easymap/temp/map1731793542.html
ただしこのリンクがいつまで存在するかわかりません…。

以上です。


2011年2月1日20:29 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 失礼しました。
 CloudMadeで以下のような矩形に囲むようなサービスが提供されていたような気がしていたのですが、
 どうやら間違いだったみたいです。失礼いたしました。
 取り急ぎ訂正いたします。


 2011年2月1日20:09 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 GoogleMapsを使わなくても、
 背景にOSMが表示されて、その上に矩形を表示できるようなサイトのほうが便利なのではないですか?
 というわけで、CloudMadeのサービス
 http://maps.cloudmade.com/
 で表示したほうがいいのではないかと思うのですが、いかがでしょうか?
 もちろん、OSM Wiki上などで独自に表示できる方法があるならば、それに越したことはありませんが、
 その方法は今ちょっと調べている時間がありません。
 もしご存じの方がいらっしゃいましたらご教示下さいませ。

 以上です。


 2011年2月1日17:29 Tomomichi Hayakawa tom.hayak...@gmail.com:
 Tomです。

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm

 これを、GPXに変換して、GoogleMapsに読み込ませてみました。
 http://maps.google.co.jp/maps/ms?ie=UTF8hl=jabrcurrent=3,0x34674e0fd77f192f:0xf54275d47c665244,0msa=0msid=214659934638657454830.00049b08f36a3b6bbf6c0z=5
 これで、高解像度エリアをGoogleMaps 上で確認出来ます。

 本当は、BingMaps でやりたかったけど、わかんなかったんで・・・


 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 Bing航空写真をシゲシゲ眺めていて、驚いたんですが、
 愛知県の三河から長野県への航空写真は、昨年(2010年)撮影された航空写真で、とっても新鮮そうです(笑)

 しかも、完全な山間部ですので、既存の地図もあまり充実してないエリアかと思います。
 トレースのし甲斐がありますね。



 2011年2月1日16:22 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp:
 ikiyaです。

 あらためて
 OSMでの地図トレース利用が認められているBing航空写真ですが
 高解像度写真のカバー範囲を知りたい方へお知らせです。

 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm


 
 Get the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo! JAPAN

 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja



 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja




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Re: [OSM-ja] Bing の高解像度なエリア

2011-02-01 Per discussione Tomomichi Hayakawa
Tomです。

GoogleMapsのアレは、仕事中に”現実逃避の3分クッキング”でやったヤツなんで、
本当は、OSMを使いたかったところではあります。
GPX とか、OSM形式を読み込めると、便利なんですけどね。



2011年2月1日21:11 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 ちょっと調べてみた感じでは、
 「OSM SlippyMap Generator」
 http://osmtools.de/easymap/index.php
 このサイトが、OSMの地図を背景に色々と不可情報を書きこんでHTMLを作るサイトとしてあるみたいです。
 ただ、恒久的な表示はできず(一時的には保存されます)、
 HTMLを生成した後は、どこかにそのHTMLを保存して公開しなければならないのが不便です。
 例えば以下のような感じです。
 http://osmtools.de/easymap/temp/map1731793542.html
 ただしこのリンクがいつまで存在するかわかりません…。

 以上です。


 2011年2月1日20:29 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 失礼しました。
 CloudMadeで以下のような矩形に囲むようなサービスが提供されていたような気がしていたのですが、
 どうやら間違いだったみたいです。失礼いたしました。
 取り急ぎ訂正いたします。


 2011年2月1日20:09 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 GoogleMapsを使わなくても、
 背景にOSMが表示されて、その上に矩形を表示できるようなサイトのほうが便利なのではないですか?
 というわけで、CloudMadeのサービス
 http://maps.cloudmade.com/
 で表示したほうがいいのではないかと思うのですが、いかがでしょうか?
 もちろん、OSM Wiki上などで独自に表示できる方法があるならば、それに越したことはありませんが、
 その方法は今ちょっと調べている時間がありません。
 もしご存じの方がいらっしゃいましたらご教示下さいませ。

 以上です。


 2011年2月1日17:29 Tomomichi Hayakawa tom.hayak...@gmail.com:
 Tomです。

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm

 これを、GPXに変換して、GoogleMapsに読み込ませてみました。
 http://maps.google.co.jp/maps/ms?ie=UTF8hl=jabrcurrent=3,0x34674e0fd77f192f:0xf54275d47c665244,0msa=0msid=214659934638657454830.00049b08f36a3b6bbf6c0z=5
 これで、高解像度エリアをGoogleMaps 上で確認出来ます。

 本当は、BingMaps でやりたかったけど、わかんなかったんで・・・


 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 Bing航空写真をシゲシゲ眺めていて、驚いたんですが、
 愛知県の三河から長野県への航空写真は、昨年(2010年)撮影された航空写真で、とっても新鮮そうです(笑)

 しかも、完全な山間部ですので、既存の地図もあまり充実してないエリアかと思います。
 トレースのし甲斐がありますね。



 2011年2月1日16:22 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp:
 ikiyaです。

 あらためて
 OSMでの地図トレース利用が認められているBing航空写真ですが
 高解像度写真のカバー範囲を知りたい方へお知らせです。

 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm


 
 Get the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo! JAPAN

 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja



 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja




 ___
 Talk-ja mailing list
 Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja


___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja


Re: [OSM-ja] Bing の高解像度なエリア

2011-02-01 Per discussione Yoichi Seino
清野です。

自分でHTMLを置くサーバースペースを用意できるなら、
やはりOpenLayersで実現するのが一番いいみたいです。
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:OpenLayers
これだとGPXファイルを重ねて表示できるみたいです。
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:Openlayers_Track_example

一度お試しください。


2011年2月1日23:19 Tomomichi Hayakawa tom.hayak...@gmail.com:
 Tomです。

 GoogleMapsのアレは、仕事中に”現実逃避の3分クッキング”でやったヤツなんで、
 本当は、OSMを使いたかったところではあります。
 GPX とか、OSM形式を読み込めると、便利なんですけどね。



 2011年2月1日21:11 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 ちょっと調べてみた感じでは、
 「OSM SlippyMap Generator」
 http://osmtools.de/easymap/index.php
 このサイトが、OSMの地図を背景に色々と不可情報を書きこんでHTMLを作るサイトとしてあるみたいです。
 ただ、恒久的な表示はできず(一時的には保存されます)、
 HTMLを生成した後は、どこかにそのHTMLを保存して公開しなければならないのが不便です。
 例えば以下のような感じです。
 http://osmtools.de/easymap/temp/map1731793542.html
 ただしこのリンクがいつまで存在するかわかりません…。

 以上です。


 2011年2月1日20:29 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 失礼しました。
 CloudMadeで以下のような矩形に囲むようなサービスが提供されていたような気がしていたのですが、
 どうやら間違いだったみたいです。失礼いたしました。
 取り急ぎ訂正いたします。


 2011年2月1日20:09 Yoichi Seino say.n...@gmail.com:
 清野です。

 GoogleMapsを使わなくても、
 背景にOSMが表示されて、その上に矩形を表示できるようなサイトのほうが便利なのではないですか?
 というわけで、CloudMadeのサービス
 http://maps.cloudmade.com/
 で表示したほうがいいのではないかと思うのですが、いかがでしょうか?
 もちろん、OSM Wiki上などで独自に表示できる方法があるならば、それに越したことはありませんが、
 その方法は今ちょっと調べている時間がありません。
 もしご存じの方がいらっしゃいましたらご教示下さいませ。

 以上です。


 2011年2月1日17:29 Tomomichi Hayakawa tom.hayak...@gmail.com:
 Tomです。

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm

 これを、GPXに変換して、GoogleMapsに読み込ませてみました。
 http://maps.google.co.jp/maps/ms?ie=UTF8hl=jabrcurrent=3,0x34674e0fd77f192f:0xf54275d47c665244,0msa=0msid=214659934638657454830.00049b08f36a3b6bbf6c0z=5
 これで、高解像度エリアをGoogleMaps 上で確認出来ます。

 本当は、BingMaps でやりたかったけど、わかんなかったんで・・・


 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 Bing航空写真をシゲシゲ眺めていて、驚いたんですが、
 愛知県の三河から長野県への航空写真は、昨年(2010年)撮影された航空写真で、とっても新鮮そうです(笑)

 しかも、完全な山間部ですので、既存の地図もあまり充実してないエリアかと思います。
 トレースのし甲斐がありますね。



 2011年2月1日16:22 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp:
 ikiyaです。

 あらためて
 OSMでの地図トレース利用が認められているBing航空写真ですが
 高解像度写真のカバー範囲を知りたい方へお知らせです。

 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm


 
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Re: [OSM-ja] Bing の高解像度なエリア

2011-02-01 Per discussione S.Higashi
東です。

 Bing航空写真をシゲシゲ眺めていて、驚いたんですが、
 愛知県の三河から長野県への航空写真は、昨年(2010年)撮影された航空写真で、とっても新鮮そうです(笑)

 しかも、完全な山間部ですので、既存の地図もあまり充実してないエリアかと思います。
 トレースのし甲斐がありますね。

山間部の写真は貴重ですね。
このあたりなど
http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.066999672607736lon=137.7414942831449zoom=18
ズームレベル18までありますね。
これを地図化すると地元の方にはかなり嬉しいのではないでしょうか。

上記から右上の「edit in potlatch2」をクリックするとMapquestのpotlatchに飛ぶようですが
(こちらのバージョンの方がosm.orgより進んでいる気がします)
たまたま道路と川が描かれていたのでBing画像と比較してみると微妙にズレていて
画像が歪んでいるのか単なる誤差なのか判別できません。。

GPSログでもあればもう少し正確なところが分かりそうですが
このような場所ではログも跳ねてしまうかもしれませんね。。

 2011年2月1日16:22 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp:
 ikiyaです。

 あらためて
 OSMでの地図トレース利用が認められているBing航空写真ですが
 高解像度写真のカバー範囲を知りたい方へお知らせです。

 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm


 
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[OSM-ja] 国土画像情報(オルソ化空中写真)の全整備データ公開

2011-02-01 Per discussione ikiya
2月から国土画像情報(簡易オルソ画像)の全整備データが
国土地理院より公開されました。
http://www.gsi.go.jp/johofukyu/kani_ortho_1.html
1970-1980年代にかけて撮影されたカラー空中写真の簡易オルソ版です。
元データの問題事例も紹介されています。
国土画像情報とは以前、国土交通省国土計画局が、
国土画像情報(オルソ化空中写真)として公開していたものです。
http://portal.cyberjapan.jp/index.html

現在国土地理院で整備が進んでいるのはより精度の高い
電子国土基本図(オルソ画像)です。
電子国土ポータルサイトで新旧オルソを比較して見れます。

以上、参考まで。
 

 
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Re: [OSM-ja] Bing の高解像度なエリア

2011-02-01 Per discussione ikiya
ikiyaです。

Bing高解像度写真と電子国土基本図(オルソ画像)を
比較すると面白いです。

電子国土基本図(オルソ画像)は2007・2008・2009年撮影分が
公開されています。じきに2010年撮影分も公開されると思います。
http://portal.cyberjapan.jp/denshi/index3_ortho.html
2月から基盤地図情報2500の公開範囲が増えたので
・電子国土基本図(オルソ画像)
・基盤地図情報2500
・Bing航空写真
を比較して眺めることもできます。
(重ね合わせはしていません。)
電子国土基本図(オルソ画像)とBing写真の撮影時期が
近い場所が多いので見ていて面白いです。

電子国土ポータルサイトの作図、緯度経度線を使って
ズレや歪みを見ることが出来ます。
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9tw89LwNH4A/TUjT73H0BuI/CQA/P5EX_6DOfqg/s1600/ic1289.jpg
さすがに電子国土基本図(オルソ画像)と基盤地図情報2500の位置は
気持ちよく合っています。
Bing写真もJOSMで緯度経度見れば比較できます。
GPSログ、Bing写真のズレ歪みが気になる方は参考に
見てみてください。


S.Higashi s_hig...@mua.biglobe.ne.jp wrote: 東です。

 Bing航空写真をシゲシゲ眺めていて、驚いたんですが、
 愛知県の三河から長野県への航空写真は、昨年(2010年)撮影された航空写真で、とっても新鮮そうです(笑)

 しかも、完全な山間部ですので、既存の地図もあまり充実してないエリアかと思います。
 トレースのし甲斐がありますね。

山間部の写真は貴重ですね。
このあたりなど
http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.066999672607736lon=137.7414942831449zoom=18
ズームレベル18までありますね。
これを地図化すると地元の方にはかなり嬉しいのではないでしょうか。

上記から右上の「edit in potlatch2」をクリックするとMapquestのpotlatchに飛ぶようですが
(こちらのバージョンの方がosm.orgより進んでいる気がします)
たまたま道路と川が描かれていたのでBing画像と比較してみると微妙にズレていて
画像が歪んでいるのか単なる誤差なのか判別できません。。

GPSログでもあればもう少し正確なところが分かりそうですが
このような場所ではログも跳ねてしまうかもしれませんね。。

 2011年2月1日16:22 ikiya :
 ikiyaです。

 あらためて
 OSMでの地図トレース利用が認められているBing航空写真ですが
 高解像度写真のカバー範囲を知りたい方へお知らせです。

 カバー範囲とズーム、タイル別の写真撮影年月を知りたい方は以下の
 Bing Aerial Imagery Analyzer for OpenStreetMapサイトをご覧下さい。
 http://mvexel.dev.openstreetmap.org/bingimageanalyzer/?lat=35.81331869384602lon=139.7414834350842zoom=10

 また白方さんが高解像度エリアをトレースしてosmファイルでupされてます。
 こちらのファイルをDLしてJOSMなどで開くと簡単に高解像度エリアが確認できます。
 http://osm-ja.sourceforge.jp/bing-hires-japan.osm


 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tags for waterways

2011-02-01 Per discussione Alex Mauer

On 01/31/2011 03:54 PM, Chris Moss wrote:

2. That page says issues include is it navigable by powered craft? but
I can't find the relevant tag. Key:boat only relates to access as far as
I can see, not to the type of boat. This could be canoe, rowing boat,
powered boat, ship, ... Is this important?


Sure, see:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access section Water-based 
transportation



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Re: [Talk-GB] Boundaries for Forestry Commission land

2011-02-01 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Peter,

Peter Miller wrote:

See you in court then ;)


Legal-talk, rather - I've opened up a new thread there!

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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