Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky pro Fody

2019-08-13 Per discussione Majka


14. srpna 2019 6:51:59 SELČ, "Martin Měřinský"  napsal:

>Představa, že každá fotka má v exifu souřadnice je dost naivní. Nemluvě
>o tom, že exif zveřejňovat nechci. Člověk chce přidat fotku, ne měnit
>souřadnice rozcestníku.

Fotku dáváš dobrovolně, a zrovna tady je skutečné místo a čas důležitá 
informace, která se vyžaduje, a bere se z exif. Pak ho do fotky musím dostat, 
zas takový problém to není. 
Ta fotka je dokumentace, ne umění. Proto osobně fotím na mobil, samostatnou 
apkou, co má lokalizaci trvale zapnutou. 
Chápu mazání exif kvůli soukromí, ale pokud se rozhodnu zveřejnit fotku 
rozcestníku, což mě stejně +- lokalizuje, netuším důvod proč si na to hrát.

Pokud si vymýšlíš jak pozici (protože bereš z mapy), tak i čas (resp. spíš 
datum), nechápu důvod proč ty rozcestníky vůbec fotíš a nahráváš. Změna - 
upřesnění - pozice rozcestníku by snad měla být jedním z hlavních důvodů, proč 
se to dělá.

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Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky pro Fody

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Měřinský
> > nahrávám fotky z foťáku, které v sobě souřadnice nemají. Páruju to
> > podle názvu rozcestníku nebo pořadí na cestě, tj. když tomu dám
> > nějaké jiné souřadnice tak čistě podle mapy. Případně podle
> > existující rozcestníku v mapě, tak by se mi hodila možnost je
> > kopírovat tlačítkem.
> 
> Tohle není úplně dobrý nápad. Zrovna jsem opravovala dva rozcestníky,
> co byly zkreslené dost daleko od skutečné pozice (stovky metrů).
> Pokud spoléháš na polohu z mapy, není šance na tohle přijít.

Představa, že každá fotka má v exifu souřadnice je dost naivní. Nemluvě
o tom, že exif zveřejňovat nechci. Člověk chce přidat fotku, ne měnit
souřadnice rozcestníku. Když jdu fotit někam, kde to znám, tak s sebou
GPS ani neberu.

Současné vynucování exifu vede k tomu, že exif smažu. Z mapy znovu a
zbytečně zjistím souřadnice, vymyslím si nějaký podobný čas a tyhle dva
údaje do exifu ručně vložím. Ale je to opruz.

Martin M.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Using OSM as database for nature park hiking routes?

2019-08-13 Per discussione Yves
If these routes are endorsed in any way by a nature park, they're no longer 
completely informal or subjective...
Yves 

Le 14 août 2019 05:19:56 GMT+02:00, Andrew Harvey  a 
écrit :
>The hiking routes
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking#Tagging_walking_and_hiking_Route_Networks
>added
>to OSM should be verifiable
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability.
>
>Talking from my experience, there are a lot of hiking paths, but only
>some
>are signposted routes, so only some can be actual routes in OSM.
>Because of
>that you would need to maintain all the other informal or subjective
>routes
>outside OSM, if there are any.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Using OSM as database for nature park hiking routes?

2019-08-13 Per discussione Andrew Harvey
The hiking routes
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking#Tagging_walking_and_hiking_Route_Networks
added
to OSM should be verifiable
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability.

Talking from my experience, there are a lot of hiking paths, but only some
are signposted routes, so only some can be actual routes in OSM. Because of
that you would need to maintain all the other informal or subjective routes
outside OSM, if there are any.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass API - Fetching countries, their capitals, and their borders

2019-08-13 Per discussione Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk
Yes I agree that every country's borders on earth adds up to a lot of 
data. And my last reply could have been clearer. If you look at his 
original query (which is mangled now by the email), He was looking for 
the NODES of each country's capital city, not the city borders.?? And 
although the Argentina relation may only have 2 nodes in the relation, 
there are apparently 80 other city nodes there tagged with 
admin_level=2, which seems like bad tagging.


On 8/13/2019 10:21 PM, Warin wrote:

On 14/08/19 11:39, Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk wrote:
He wasn't asking for every town on earth. Just every country's 
border, and every country's capitol. I am a noob too so can't answer 
his question. But I did run the wizard with "admin_level=2 and 
type:node" and got 3,988 nodes. Which begs the question, why does 
Argentina have dozens of admin level 2 nodes? I am guessing around 80 
or so.


Each border would usually be a relation with a number of ways. Each 
way will have a number of nodes to make the way.



Example
Argentina is relation 286393

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/286393#map=4/-40.51/-63.63

It has 2 nodes, many ways and a number of separate relations... look 
at teh above link.


One of those ways is Way: Border Chile - Argentina (206446254) and 
that single way has 393 nodes.




On 8/13/2019 6:30 PM, Warin wrote:

On 14/08/19 07:41, L??o El Amri via talk wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to fetch countries, their borders, and their capitals 
through

Overpass API, but the server never replies to me (With a timeout:3600
setting, the server reply with a 502 error after a while).
I'm only a beginner with this API, so maybe my request is not 
efficient:


(
 node[place=city];


this gets all cities?

 node[place=town];

this gets all towns?

)->.a;
rel[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2]->.b;
(
 node[place=country];
 node.a[capital=yes];
 way[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2];
 .b;
 .b >;
)->.o;
.o out body;

What am I doing wrong ? (Should I use another tool for this purpose ?)



Too much data? So it times out.

You are asking for every node of;

city 19,930

town 111,981

country 221

And then boundaries as well. 29,752

The numbers I got from taginfo.. did not bother with separating 
nodes etc.


I think the boundaries will cause problems - lots of nodes and ways 
in there as well as the relations.


Suggestions? Do it in small sections.

Get the cities and countries as one item and see if that works. Save 
the result for later merging.


Get the boundaries for a small section of the world .. with few 
boundaries and see if that works.







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Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass API - Fetching countries, their capitals, and their borders

2019-08-13 Per discussione Warin

On 14/08/19 11:39, Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk wrote:
He wasn't asking for every town on earth. Just every country's border, 
and every country's capitol. I am a noob too so can't answer his 
question. But I did run the wizard with "admin_level=2 and type:node" 
and got 3,988 nodes. Which begs the question, why does Argentina have 
dozens of admin level 2 nodes? I am guessing around 80 or so.


Each border would usually be a relation with a number of ways. Each way 
will have a number of nodes to make the way.



Example
Argentina is relation 286393

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/286393#map=4/-40.51/-63.63

It has 2 nodes, many ways and a number of separate relations... look at 
teh above link.


One of those ways is Way: Border Chile - Argentina (206446254) and that 
single way has 393 nodes.




On 8/13/2019 6:30 PM, Warin wrote:

On 14/08/19 07:41, L??o El Amri via talk wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to fetch countries, their borders, and their capitals 
through

Overpass API, but the server never replies to me (With a timeout:3600
setting, the server reply with a 502 error after a while).
I'm only a beginner with this API, so maybe my request is not 
efficient:


(
 node[place=city];


this gets all cities?

 node[place=town];

this gets all towns?

)->.a;
rel[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2]->.b;
(
 node[place=country];
 node.a[capital=yes];
 way[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2];
 .b;
 .b >;
)->.o;
.o out body;

What am I doing wrong ? (Should I use another tool for this purpose ?)



Too much data? So it times out.

You are asking for every node of;

city 19,930

town 111,981

country 221

And then boundaries as well. 29,752

The numbers I got from taginfo.. did not bother with separating nodes 
etc.


I think the boundaries will cause problems - lots of nodes and ways 
in there as well as the relations.


Suggestions? Do it in small sections.

Get the cities and countries as one item and see if that works. Save 
the result for later merging.


Get the boundaries for a small section of the world .. with few 
boundaries and see if that works.






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Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass API - Fetching countries, their capitals, and their borders

2019-08-13 Per discussione Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk
He wasn't asking for every town on earth. Just every country's border, 
and every country's capitol. I am a noob too so can't answer his 
question. But I did run the wizard with "admin_level=2 and type:node" 
and got 3,988 nodes. Which begs the question, why does Argentina have 
dozens of admin level 2 nodes? I am guessing around 80 or so.


On 8/13/2019 6:30 PM, Warin wrote:

On 14/08/19 07:41, L??o El Amri via talk wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to fetch countries, their borders, and their capitals through
Overpass API, but the server never replies to me (With a timeout:3600
setting, the server reply with a 502 error after a while).
I'm only a beginner with this API, so maybe my request is not efficient:

(
 node[place=city];
 node[place=town];
)->.a;
rel[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2]->.b;
(
 node[place=country];
 node.a[capital=yes];
 way[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2];
 .b;
 .b >;
)->.o;
.o out body;

What am I doing wrong ? (Should I use another tool for this purpose ?)



Too much data? So it times out.

You are asking for every node of;

city 19,930

town 111,981

country 221

And then boundaries as well. 29,752

The numbers I got from taginfo.. did not bother with separating nodes 
etc.


I think the boundaries will cause problems - lots of nodes and ways in 
there as well as the relations.


Suggestions? Do it in small sections.

Get the cities and countries as one item and see if that works. Save 
the result for later merging.


Get the boundaries for a small section of the world .. with few 
boundaries and see if that works.




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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Houston, TX, open data policy license compliance

2019-08-13 Per discussione Kathleen Lu via legal-talk
Ah, apologies, Jan, I was too hasty in my assessment. If you click on the
CC-BY link, you will see that only the "School District" dataset is CC-BY.
If you do inquire, I would first ask if the dataset you are interested in
is in the public domain, as that is possible under US law, and would be
most fitting for the description of open data in
http://www.houstontx.gov/adminpolicies/8-7.html as "freely used, shared and
built-on by anyone, anywhere, for any purpose."
And to Simon's point about third-party rights, while there are no
guarantees, the policy does mention "Exempt Data" as including data to
which there are contractual limitations, so it appears that the city at
least made some effort to exclude third-party data from open data.
-Kathleen

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:42 PM Kathleen Lu  wrote:

> Hi Jan,
> Specifically, here's is an example of the Geographic Boundaries page that
> indicates a CC-BY license:
> http://data.houstontx.gov/group/geographic-boundaries
> On the left side, at the bottom of the list of information. I would
> surmise that this applies to all the geographic boundary datasets, but you
> can ask them for clarification.
> Best,
> Kathleen
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 4:43 AM Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>> While the policy is undoutably good, it does not follow that all data
>> published actually conforms to it (for example third party rights in
>> existing data could be an issue).
>>
>> In any case on data.houstontx.gov the licence is specified for 7
>> datasets, so I assume the intent is to do that for all over time (you
>> should ask).
>>
>> The related problem is that you will need to obtain a waiver for CC BY
>> material as CC BY is in many ways more restrictive than the ODbL (see
>> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/).
>>
>> Simon
>> Am 13.08.2019 um 08:24 schrieb JS:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> The city of Houston has published several open data sets at
>> data.houstontx.gov and cohgis-mycity.opendata.arcgis.com/. While the
>> data sets and open data websites do not contain any licensing-related text,
>> there's a general open data policy at
>> http://www.houstontx.gov/adminpolicies/8-7.html.
>>
>> Am I right to assume that this policy, in particular the definition of
>> "open data" at No 6, is sufficiently clear so as to use the data without
>> further permission?
>>
>> Thanks for your opinions!
>>
>> Best,
>> Jan
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>>
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>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Using OSM as database for nature park hiking routes?

2019-08-13 Per discussione Warin

Are any of their routes already in OSM?

If not then pick an existing route local to the area and show them it using

https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/#route?id=8505462

Click on the elevation profile - auto generated.
And people can download a gpx file for the route.

And they can generate their own maps - print them out without copyright 
fees (though donations would be appreciated) and sell/give them away ..




On 14/08/19 06:17, Bernd Vogelgesang via talk wrote:

Hi folks,

I need some guidance from the assembled wisdom, concerning hiking
routes, information-maps and signposts.

I got involved with a nature park in Germany, which wants to start an
initiative to collect all existing local hiking routes (230) in the area
(ca. 1600 km), and produce orientation maps (ca. 100) in collaboration
with max. 40 municipalities.

So they ask me about what kind of database they should use to work on
this topic with QGIS and with the system of a specialized company.
I got not much information till now, but from what I see so far, there
is no need to keep a special database on those routes as all could be
planted into OSM and that they do not need to buy themselves in a
locked-up proprietary system.

The big question is now, what is the most elegant way for those not very
tecky people to import/export the data of "their" routes and "their"
orientation maps and signposts when I'm not around?
The merits I earned with OSM so far is buying a book in 2013 and
digitizing some meadows around my village and using some data in QGIS,
but I already started to investigate the wiki for clever usage of tags 
etc.


So, what do you think? Should I start the fight for the usage of OSM and
against that proprietary stuff or should I stay calm, take the money and
let them do what seems to be the easy way?

Cheers,
Bernd

p.s. As a background map for their routes, they would like to have
OpenTopoMap ;)


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Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass API - Fetching countries, their capitals, and their borders

2019-08-13 Per discussione Warin

On 14/08/19 07:41, Léo El Amri via talk wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to fetch countries, their borders, and their capitals through
Overpass API, but the server never replies to me (With a timeout:3600
setting, the server reply with a 502 error after a while).
I'm only a beginner with this API, so maybe my request is not efficient:

(
   node[place=city];
   node[place=town];
)->.a;
rel[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2]->.b;
(
   node[place=country];
   node.a[capital=yes];
   way[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2];
   .b;
   .b >;
)->.o;
.o out body;

What am I doing wrong ? (Should I use another tool for this purpose ?)



Too much data? So it times out.

You are asking for every node of;

city 19,930

town 111,981

country 221

And then boundaries as well. 29,752

The numbers I got from taginfo.. did not bother with separating nodes etc.

I think the boundaries will cause problems - lots of nodes and ways in there as 
well as the relations.

Suggestions? Do it in small sections.

Get the cities and countries as one item and see if that works. Save the result 
for later merging.

Get the boundaries for a small section of the world .. with few boundaries and 
see if that works.



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[OSM-talk] Overpass API - Fetching countries, their capitals, and their borders

2019-08-13 Per discussione Léo El Amri via talk
Hello,

I'm trying to fetch countries, their borders, and their capitals through
Overpass API, but the server never replies to me (With a timeout:3600
setting, the server reply with a 502 error after a while).
I'm only a beginner with this API, so maybe my request is not efficient:

(
  node[place=city];
  node[place=town];
)->.a;
rel[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2]->.b;
(
  node[place=country];
  node.a[capital=yes];
  way[boundary=administrative][admin_level=2];
  .b;
  .b >;
)->.o;
.o out body;

What am I doing wrong ? (Should I use another tool for this purpose ?)

Cordially,
Léo

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Houston, TX, open data policy license compliance

2019-08-13 Per discussione Kathleen Lu via legal-talk
Hi Jan,
Specifically, here's is an example of the Geographic Boundaries page that
indicates a CC-BY license:
http://data.houstontx.gov/group/geographic-boundaries
On the left side, at the bottom of the list of information. I would surmise
that this applies to all the geographic boundary datasets, but you can ask
them for clarification.
Best,
Kathleen

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 4:43 AM Simon Poole  wrote:

> While the policy is undoutably good, it does not follow that all data
> published actually conforms to it (for example third party rights in
> existing data could be an issue).
>
> In any case on data.houstontx.gov the licence is specified for 7
> datasets, so I assume the intent is to do that for all over time (you
> should ask).
>
> The related problem is that you will need to obtain a waiver for CC BY
> material as CC BY is in many ways more restrictive than the ODbL (see
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/).
>
> Simon
> Am 13.08.2019 um 08:24 schrieb JS:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> The city of Houston has published several open data sets at
> data.houstontx.gov and cohgis-mycity.opendata.arcgis.com/. While the data
> sets and open data websites do not contain any licensing-related text,
> there's a general open data policy at
> http://www.houstontx.gov/adminpolicies/8-7.html.
>
> Am I right to assume that this policy, in particular the definition of
> "open data" at No 6, is sufficiently clear so as to use the data without
> further permission?
>
> Thanks for your opinions!
>
> Best,
> Jan
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>
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Re: [Talk-dk] Rettelser til DAR og OISfixes

2019-08-13 Per discussione Jørgen Elgaard Larsen

Ole Laursen skrev:

Ved at registrere det direkte på adresseknuderne med et tag så AutoAWS
fatter hvad der er sket. Der er lige pt. et ignore-tag man kan putte
på. Jeg tænker, optimistisk, at det må kunne lade sig gøre at løse det
her på en nogenlunde elegant måde hvis bare AutoAWS kan bringes til at
forstå det.


Man kunne godt lave et værktøj á la OISfixes, hvor man kan logge ind med 
sin OSM-bruger og melde en rettelse: Indtast det fejlbehæftede vejnavn 
og postnummer, samt det korrekte vejnavn. Så kan værktøjet finde alle de 
matchende adressenoder og opmærke dem passende i OSM.


AutoAWS kunne så fjerne markeringen, når adresserne var blevet rettet i 
DAR. Det ville have den fordel ift. OISfixes, at der blev ryddet 
automatisk op.



Hvis AutoAWS lægger kommunekode og vejkode på adressenoderne, kan vi 
dels rapportere problemer på kommuneniveau, dels sikre entydighed mellem 
veje.


Der burde ganske vist ikke være flere veje med samme navn i samme 
postnummer - men det ved jeg af erfaring, at der er.



- Jørgen

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

2019-08-13 Per discussione Nuno Caldeira


Às 22:04 de 13/08/2019, Kathleen Lu escreveu:



>
> And to Martin's point, which would you consider more important,
the overlay of rare information, the gas stations, or the basemap?
Or is the overlay only more important than the basemap if the
overlay comes from OSM?


In a basemap/overlay data constellation, I would generally
consider the overlay more important (it’s the reason the map was
published), but of course this doesn’t mean you would not have to
attribute the basemap as well, if it were a requirement of the map.


As far as I know, no one is talking about no attribution at all, but 
rather attribution after a click


You mean the reasonable calculated Mapbox and VOST logo on the left 
corner of the map and the "i" with permanent mouse hover to be displayed?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 13. Aug 2019, at 23:04, Kathleen Lu  wrote:
> 
> As far as I know, no one is talking about no attribution at all, but rather 
> attribution after a click


in some cases we are talking about several clicks, but what I meant was that it 
could well happen that you’d have to attribute both, basemap and overlay data, 
directly on the map (not hidden and visible only after clicking).
I have seen this quite often and it makes perfect sense.

Cheers Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

2019-08-13 Per discussione Kathleen Lu via talk
>
> > And to Martin's point, which would you consider more important, the
> overlay of rare information, the gas stations, or the basemap? Or is the
> overlay only more important than the basemap if the overlay comes from OSM?
>
>
> In a basemap/overlay data constellation, I would generally consider the
> overlay more important (it’s the reason the map was published), but of
> course this doesn’t mean you would not have to attribute the basemap as
> well, if it were a requirement of the map.
>

As far as I know, no one is talking about no attribution at all, but rather
attribution after a click
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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 13. Aug 2019, at 18:59, demon_box  wrote:
> 
> "Prog.km 00+886" e se usassi questo? cioè "ref=00+886" questo dato è l'unico
> che mi specifica proprio QUEL paletto, che dite?


quello se vuoi inserirlo starebbe meglio in un tag tipo distance oppure pk (dei 
milestones).
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:distance
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:pk


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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione demon_box
tra l'altro rileggendo il wiki di power=marker

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dmarker

dopo il tag position=left/right non ho capito nulla

come faccio ad indicare che la linea si trova ad esempio (vedi prima foto) a
2.80 metri a destra del paletto marcatore?
com'è la sintassi corretta?

--enrico



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Re: [Talk-dk] Rettelser til DAR og OISfixes

2019-08-13 Per discussione Jørgen Elgaard Larsen

Ole Laursen skrev:

Har du erfaringer med om de så ender med at rette det?


Nogle gange.

Men jeg har også været ude for, at kommuner bare har været stædige og 
ikke ville rette. Især husker jeg en kommune, som nægtede at oprette en 
manglende adresse for en indgang tii en bygning, til trods for at 
indgangen var skiltet med husnummeret, og at virksomheder i bygningen 
brugte adressen som postadresse. Kommunen mente, at bygningen kun skulle 
have én adresse.


I sådan et tilfælde bør vi naturligvis lægge adressen i OSM alligevel. 
Vi kortlægger jo i sidste ende efter virkeligheden, ikke et register.


- Jørgen

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[OSM-talk] Using OSM as database for nature park hiking routes?

2019-08-13 Per discussione Bernd Vogelgesang via talk

Hi folks,

I need some guidance from the assembled wisdom, concerning hiking
routes, information-maps and signposts.

I got involved with a nature park in Germany, which wants to start an
initiative to collect all existing local hiking routes (230) in the area
(ca. 1600 km), and produce orientation maps (ca. 100) in collaboration
with max. 40 municipalities.

So they ask me about what kind of database they should use to work on
this topic with QGIS and with the system of a specialized company.
I got not much information till now, but from what I see so far, there
is no need to keep a special database on those routes as all could be
planted into OSM and that they do not need to buy themselves in a
locked-up proprietary system.

The big question is now, what is the most elegant way for those not very
tecky people to import/export the data of "their" routes and "their"
orientation maps and signposts when I'm not around?
The merits I earned with OSM so far is buying a book in 2013 and
digitizing some meadows around my village and using some data in QGIS,
but I already started to investigate the wiki for clever usage of tags etc.

So, what do you think? Should I start the fight for the usage of OSM and
against that proprietary stuff or should I stay calm, take the money and
let them do what seems to be the easy way?

Cheers,
Bernd

p.s. As a background map for their routes, they would like to have
OpenTopoMap ;)


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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione demon_box
Fabrizio Tambussa wrote
> In Italia pertutti gli elettrodotti Terna si è usato il tag ref:terna
> sulla
> linea.

ok ma la mia domanda principale è quale ref mettere al paletto
power=marker...
che facciamo?

--enrico





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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM ! cartographes)

2019-08-13 Per discussione Eric SIBERT via Talk-fr
Si tu commentes un changeset, il est plus facile de demander notre avis 
et surtout de mettre notre grain de sel (ou te conseiller pour réagir).


Ah oui, c'est une nouvelle fonctionnalité que je n'ai pas encore 
l'habitude d'utiliser ;-)


Mais je vais essayer de m'en servir plus souvent. Ça permet de sortir du 
tête à tête en privé pour passer à une sorte de débat public.


Eric

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 13. Aug 2019, at 20:19, Kathleen Lu  wrote:
> 
> And to Martin's point, which would you consider more important, the overlay 
> of rare information, the gas stations, or the basemap? Or is the overlay only 
> more important than the basemap if the overlay comes from OSM?


In a basemap/overlay data constellation, I would generally consider the overlay 
more important (it’s the reason the map was published), but of course this 
doesn’t mean you would not have to attribute the basemap as well, if it were a 
requirement of the map.


Cheers Martin 
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[Talk-at] Österreichs Hausnummern in OpenStreetMap unvollständig

2019-08-13 Per discussione Johann Haag
Ich möchte alle Anwender von OpenStreetMap darauf hinweisen, dass die Erfassung 
von Adressen in OpenStreetMap unvollständig ist, daher in OpenStreetMap bei 
Adressen und Hausnummern im allgemeinen grosse Lücken bestehen. Es gibt in 
OpenStreetMap den grundsätzlichen Ansatz, nur geprüfte Daten zu erfassen, 
solches schlißt daher einen vollständigen Adressbestand grundsätzlich aus, denn 
eine Prüfung ohne direkten Zugang zur Datenquelle kann immer nur unvollständig 
sein.

Wer Hausnummern benötigt, sollte sich daher besser an die jeweiligen Portale 
der Österreichischen Bundesländer wenden, natürlich gibt es auch bekannte 
Portale wie maps.google.com

Burgen­land Adresssuche: 
https://geodaten.bgld.gv.at/de/geodaten-suche/adressen.html
Kärnten Adresssuche: 
https://info.ktn.gv.at/asp/ADR/web_adrsuche.asp?Gemeinde=20505
Nieder­österreich Adresssuche: 
https://atlas.noe.gv.at/webgisatlas/(S(fzvcpbpxl2hbeknrj5dsctib))/init.aspx?karte=atlas_adressen=ortsangaben
Ober­österreich Adresssuche: 
https://www.doris.at/viewer/init.aspx?ks=alk=adr
Salzburg Adresssuche: 
https://www.salzburg.gv.at/sagisonline/(S(zlcfgf3znq1dychqdi4rclac))/init.aspx?karte=basis=Adressen/Namensgut=sagis=hoehen=franzkataster=raumordnung=natur=natur_intern=umwelt=lubi=verkehr=historthofoto
Steier­mark Adresssuche: 
https://gis.stmk.gv.at/atlas/(S(tlhaobhyzznppcn00h5zg5fy))/init.aspx?cms=da=emptymap=gisstmk=gisstmk=gisstmk=hintergr,gel,dopags_tc,opbmgrau,opbm,uctc,opoverlay=_ortho=maptipps,orient_adr
Tirol Adresssuche: 
https://www.tirol.gv.at/statistik-budget/tiris/adressen-suchen/
Vorarl­berg Adresssuche: 
http://vogis.cnv.at/atlas/init.aspx?karte=adressen_u_ortsplan
Wien Adresssuche: https://www.wien.gv.at/stadtplan/search.aspx

Es handelt sich hier um einen Mail Verteiler zu OpenStreetmap Themen, trotzdem 
fände ich es relevant zu wissen ob es eine zentrale Amtliche Adress Webseite in 
Österreich gibt.
Grüße Johann Haag
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Re: [Talk-pe] Heath centers import in Peru

2019-08-13 Per discussione Omar Vega Ramos
El 2019-08-12 20:36, Karito Tenorio Palomino escribió:
> Hello,
> 
> I would like to import dataset of health centers in Peru.
> I created a repository where I uploaded the data,
> https://github.com/osm-pe/health-centers-import,  and also I opened a
> ticket with some details about it
> https://github.com/osm-pe/health-centers-import/issues/1
> 
> Regards,
> Karito.
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Hola Karito

A mi me parece bien, yo también me estaba guiando del mapa de susalud[0]
para identificar lugares con centros de salud. Habría que ver que
atributos podemos usar de ese archivo y con que etiquetas se colocarían.

Saludos

[0] http://mapa.susalud.gob.pe/
-- 
Omar Vega

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

2019-08-13 Per discussione Nuno Caldeira
https://janaodaparaabastecer.vost.pt/ is a very interesting example. 
On my screen, the attribution clearly stretches longer than the width 
of the map.


It's funny that you mention that, i contacted them, they weren't even 
aware they were using OpenStreetMap. They even said their data was "open 
data", when in reality comes from Waze But hey they use 
OpenStreetMap tiles via Mapbox with a bit of shy attribution.


And seems Mapbox doesn't know how to set a proper hyperlink on that page 
it heads to https://www.openstreetmap.org/about/ instead of 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright


But what's the arm? Mapbox logo, Waze and everything else comes first 
and get proper exposure like it should.



Is your opinion then that they should attribute similar to your 
European Commission example of "correct" attribution 
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/infrastructure/tentec/tentec-portal/map/maps.html, 
where some of the attribution is visible immediately, and the rest 
after clicking?


I see OpenStreetMap being attributed 100% of the time. Maybe they should 
just hide like our Corporate Member of OSMF.Or not even attribute at 
all, like the ones i shared yesterday.



And to Martin's point, which would you consider more important, the 
overlay of rare information, the gas stations, or the basemap? Or is 
the overlay only more important than the basemap if the overlay comes 
from OSM?
As i pointed out they didn't knew it was OSM. About the importance, let 
me remind you of Facebook reply telling me "static maps not being 
informative". Sure, if they are not just don't use them at all, a blank 
tile will look much better, feel free to use it instead.Attribution is 
really such a hard task to fulfill.


If you browse the portuguese press about VOST map, you will notice 
endless references to Waze. You know how many to OpenStreetMap? Less 
than onezero. Another lovely opportunity loss to advocate for 
OpenStreetMap and open data.


Examples:

https://sicnoticias.pt/especiais/crise-energetica/2019-08-12-Vost-Portugal-disponibiliza-online-os-postos-onde-ainda-ha-combustivel
https://www.dn.pt/pais/interior/mapa-online-mostra-que-bombas-ficam-sem-combustivel-veja-aqui-11189237.html
https://4gnews.pt/waze-diz-te-quais-as-bombas-de-gasolina-onde-abastecer-nesta-greve-dos-motoristas/








On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 10:33 AM Nuno Caldeira 
mailto:nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


Hi Martin,


For another perspective, imagine someone making a world map with
85% OpenStreetMap data and 15% XY inc. data, if someone looks on
a part of this map which is fed by these 15% XY data, you would
not want to have it incorrectly attributed to OpenStreetMap
(although we are generally the principal data provider).

Well, the example i gave previously
https://janaodaparaabastecer.vost.pt/ is a good example of what
you are saying. What do you do to fix it? Mapbox will say nothing
or "believe this is the common, VOST won't say anything. Meanwhile
99.9% of that map is OSM a the gas station status update is
provided by Waze. Sounds fair doesn't it?



I believe the 50% rule is ok, if it refers to the displayed
objects on the screen (although this can also be arbitrary, since
you can always split a way, or interpolate nodes to get more of
them).
Imagine a map which chooses a different data provider per
country. For zoomed in maps (you only see data from one provider)
you would want this one provider prominently attributed. If you
attribute to someone else more prominently and show the actual
data provider only in „others“, you will inevitably create a
wrong impression about the source, and if it’s us who miss out on
visible attribution, we should care.


Good that you mention this. On my email from 10th of October 2018
to facebook and Mapbox (both stopped replying), i pointed out
these examples which have zero issues about having multiple
sources being attributed visibly and not hiding them:


Microsoft - Uses HERE and OSM and attributes both visibly on the
footer

https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2=48.187141%2C%2016.349561=48.187141%2C16.349561=48.18694871145921~16.349901334904583=18=1



ARCGIS Web - Uses OSM and ESRI data, credits both

https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=fae788aa91e54244b161b59725dcbb2a

European Commission  - credits OSM and other sources

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/infrastructure/tentec/tentec-portal/map/maps.html
and

http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/copernicus-emergency-management-service#zoom=2=23.42974=16.28085=00B0T


Sadly, some say this is hard to implement. The above sites, must
have a hell of a research UX dept to make it possible and others
just say it's hard. Google does the same on "dynamic 

[OSM-talk-ie] Galway Event

2019-08-13 Per discussione Tadeusz Cantwell
Registration is now open for the new event in Galway on the 31st of August,
find out more and sign up if you're going, here

.
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Re: [Talk-se] Lantmäteriets öppna data

2019-08-13 Per discussione Christian Asker
Hej. Det är ofta problem med ortofoto som du skriver. Ibland är det till 
och med så att olika zoom-nivåer ligger helt olika och därmed behöver 
korrigeras var för sig. Dessutom är korrigeringen olika på olika platser.


Jag brukar använda mig av NVDB från Trafikverket för att korrigera mot 
innan jag ritar av saker. De allra minsta vägarna stämmer inte alltid 
med verkligheten, men de större går bra att korrigera mot.


Lycka till!

Mvh Christian


Den 2019-08-11 kl. 07:21, skrev Eva Lindberg:

Tack för alla svar.

För det första, flera har nämnt Ekonomiska kartan men den finns inte 
som öppna data över Norrlands inland, dit ”mitt” område tydligen 
räknas, så det är inte ett alternativ.


Jag ska också säga att jag har kollat på Terrängkartan i det område 
där jag vill kartera och den är precis som NKA skrev inte så noggrann. 
Det beror dels på att den är ritad för att se bra ut på en karta (till 
exempel är en del vägkrökar avrundade och följer inte den verkliga 
vägen) och dels på att den till vissa delar innehåller gammal 
information. Den är dock mer komplett och mer korrekt än den karta som 
finns där nu som också så vitt jag förstår är importerad. Som källa 
står ” DigitalGlobe Premium Imagery; NVDB; NVDB Vägnamn; survey”, 
kolla gärna länken nedan om ni kan se varifrån den kommer.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/63.4970/18.0766=C

Sedan har ni uppmanat mig att kartera själv och det är en grundtanke 
med OSM. När det gäller att kartera baserat på ortofoto i editorer för 
OSM ska jag förklara varför jag inte vill det med ett exempel från 
området där jag vill kartera. Jag har gjort några bilder som exempel 
och hoppas att jag kan skicka dem som bilagor.


I mina bilder ser man till höger en landsväg och från mitten och till 
vänster uppfartsvägar till bostadshus. Bild 1 är ESRI World Imagery. 
Det är dock exakt lika som Bing aerial imagery men något mörkare och 
blurrigare så jag har Bing som bakgrundsbild i fortsättningen. Jag 
använder JOSM och den har varnat för att Bing har dåliga positioner.
I bild 2 visar jag terrängkartan för samma område. Det ser ju inte så 
bra ut, vägen i terrängkartan följer inte ortofotot och på ett par 
ställen har den ändrat sträckning, man kan se rester av den gamla 
vägsträckningen.


Jag öppnade samma område i QGIS. Även här ser man att vägen är 
förenklad och avrundad i terrängkartan (markerad i gult i bild 3) och 
att den har ändrat sträckning. Bakgrunden är Lantmäteriets ortofoto.


Jag har även lagt in vägen från Fastighetskartan i rött och nu börjar 
det likna något (bild 4). Fastighetskartan är så vitt jag vet 
Lantmäteriets mest noggranna karta. Jag har tillgång till den via mitt 
jobb (det har förresten alla som arbetar eller studerar på svenska 
universitet, liksom jättemycket annat geodata. Hör av er om ni vill 
veta mer).


Jag gick tillbaka till JOSM och öppnade Fastighetskartan även där 
(bild 5). Där kan man observera något intressant: Fastighetskartan och 
ortofoto stämmer inte lika bra överens. Om man skulle rita in vägarna 
från Esri World Imagery så skulle det i det här fallet inte stämma med 
fastighetskartan och därmed inte med heller ortofoto från 
Lantmäteriet. Vägen som är inlagd i OSM stämmer inte med någon av dem 
(bild 6).


Jag tror att det hänger ihop med hur ortofotona får geografiska 
koordinater. I korthet så här: Det räcker inte med information från 
kameran och flygplanet, man behöver även kontrollpunkter på marken som 
är inmätta med hög noggrannhet och som man kan identifiera i ortofoto 
(markstöd). Om man har kontrollpunkter med dålig noggrannhet blir 
koordinaterna mer fel. Vid flygfotografering sätter man ut 
flygsignaler och mäter in med högprecisionsGPS. Jag vet inte hur Bings 
ortofoton har fått sina kontrollpunkter men med stor sannolikhet har 
de sämre noggrannhet. Jag misstänker tex att de inte sätter ut 
flygsignaler och istället använder kända punkter (förmodligen från en 
karta!) som kontrollpunkter. Jag anser därför att Lantmäteriets 
ortofoton är mer korrekta.


Det jag ogillar är alltså främst tanken att rita in objekt från 
ortofoton som har dålig noggrannhet. Det finns dessutom nackdelar med 
att kartera från ortofoton jämfört med att använda stereobilder som 
Lantmäteriet gör men som få av oss kan göra hemma. I princip allt är 
bättre att kartera med stereobilder, speciellt där det finns 
höjdskillnader som skogskanter och byggnader. Jag skulle kunna kartera 
från Lantmäteriets ortofoton i QGIS men dels misstänker jag att jag 
inte får använda dem på det sättet eftersom de inte är öppna (jag har 
tillgång via jobbet) och dels tycker jag att det är en dålig lösning 
att kartera från ortofoto när det finns andra (Lantmäteriet) som 
karterar från stereobilder.


Om man jämför ortofotona ser man en annan intressant sak. I 
mitten/nedre delen av bilden finns en skogsdunge. I Lantmäteriets foto 
ser man uppfartsvägen nordväst om skogsdungen men i Bings bilder syns 
den inte. Det beror på att skogsdungen ligger på 

Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky pro Fody

2019-08-13 Per discussione Tom Ka
> > - jak řešit situaci, kdy se nedají všechny šipky rozcestníku vyfotit 
> > najednou? kompozicí z více fotek?
> neskladat, vlozit do Fody vice fotek k jednomu rozcestniku.
>
> nahrát novou fotku, dát ji kousek vedle a opsat tam ref rozcestníku, chápu 
> správně?

klidne na stejnou pozici, resp. tam kam patri, pri foceni stejneho
rozcestniku je pak stejne ref (mimo stare znaceni, tam muze byt z
kazde strany videt jina trasa a tedy jina hodnota ref). Mozna venuj
par minut procteni strucneho navodu na
https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/Fody/wiki/ resp. konkretne:

https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/Fody/wiki/AddingPhotos
https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/Fody/wiki/PhotosExamples

Bye

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Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky pro Fody

2019-08-13 Per discussione Tom Ka
Souhlasim s Majkou. Ta poloha je jeden z dulezitych udaju. Casto jsou
v OSM rozcestniky dost mimo realitu a rozumne zamerena fotka to umozni
odhalit. Kamarad, co taky fotil z fotaku to resil tak, ze nahraval GPX
do navigace a pak to podle (predem rozumne nastaveneho tj. +- par
vterin) casu nechal doplnit do EXIFu fotek. V pripade zajmu muzu
pohledat nejaky detailnejsi navod.

Praskat to ale do mapy nekam se mi moc nelibi, navic, kdyby to byl
default, tak to odklikne vetsina lidi a vubec je nenapadne pozici
nejak upresnovat. Taky se mi stane, ze ve fotce GPS souradnice chybi -
staci ze neni fik a v ramci foceni si toho clovek nevsimne, ale pak se
snazim to umistit s pomoci mapy a ortofoto po pameti (ala nalevo od
cesty asi 2m za krizovatkou).

Staci takto?

út 13. 8. 2019 v 18:28 odesílatel Majka  napsal:
>
>
>
> 13. srpna 2019 16:30:24 SELČ, "Mikoláš Štrajt"  napsal:
>
> >nahrávám fotky z foťáku, které v sobě souřadnice nemají. Páruju to
> >podle
> >názvu rozcestníku nebo pořadí na cestě, tj. když tomu dám nějaké jiné
> >souřadnice tak čistě podle mapy. Případně podle existující rozcestníku
> >v
> >mapě, tak by se mi hodila možnost je kopírovat tlačítkem.
> >
>
> Tohle není úplně dobrý nápad. Zrovna jsem opravovala dva rozcestníky, co byly 
> zkreslené dost daleko od skutečné pozice (stovky metrů).
> Pokud spoléháš na polohu z mapy, není šance na tohle přijít.
>
> Majka
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

2019-08-13 Per discussione Kathleen Lu via talk
 https://janaodaparaabastecer.vost.pt/ is a very interesting example. On my
screen, the attribution clearly stretches longer than the width of the map.
Is your opinion then that they should attribute similar to your European
Commission example of "correct" attribution
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/infrastructure/tentec/tentec-portal/map/maps.html,
where some of the attribution is visible immediately, and the rest after
clicking?

And to Martin's point, which would you consider more important, the overlay
of rare information, the gas stations, or the basemap? Or is the overlay
only more important than the basemap if the overlay comes from OSM?

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 10:33 AM Nuno Caldeira 
wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
> For another perspective, imagine someone making a world map with 85%
> OpenStreetMap data and 15% XY inc. data, if someone looks on a part of this
> map which is fed by these 15% XY data, you would not want to have it
> incorrectly attributed to OpenStreetMap (although we are generally the
> principal data provider).
>
> Well, the example i gave previously https://janaodaparaabastecer.vost.pt/
> is a good example of what you are saying. What do you do to fix it? Mapbox
> will say nothing or "believe this is the common, VOST won't say anything.
> Meanwhile 99.9% of that map is OSM a the gas station status update is
> provided by Waze. Sounds fair doesn't it?
>
>
> I believe the 50% rule is ok, if it refers to the displayed objects on the
> screen (although this can also be arbitrary, since you can always split a
> way, or interpolate nodes to get more of them).
> Imagine a map which chooses a different data provider per country. For
> zoomed in maps (you only see data from one provider) you would want this
> one provider prominently attributed. If you attribute to someone else more
> prominently and show the actual data provider only in „others“, you will
> inevitably create a wrong impression about the source, and if it’s us who
> miss out on visible attribution, we should care.
>
> Good that you mention this. On my email from 10th of October 2018 to
> facebook and Mapbox (both stopped replying), i pointed out these examples
> which have zero issues about having multiple sources being attributed
> visibly and not hiding them:
>
> Microsoft - Uses HERE and OSM and attributes both visibly on the footer
> https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2=48.187141%2C%2016.349561=48.187141%2C16.349561=48.18694871145921~16.349901334904583=18=1
> 
>
> ARCGIS Web - Uses OSM and ESRI data, credits both
> https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=fae788aa91e54244b161b59725dcbb2a
>
> European Commission  - credits OSM and other sources
> http://ec.europa.eu/transport/infrastructure/tentec/tentec-portal/map/maps.html
> and
> http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/copernicus-emergency-management-service#zoom=2=23.42974=16.28085=00B0T
>
> Sadly, some say this is hard to implement. The above sites, must have a
> hell of a research UX dept to make it possible and others just say it's
> hard. Google does the same on "dynamic attribution". It's not rocket
> science, especially when it's for desktop use, there's plenty of space to
> attribute visibly. It's just excuses.
>
>
> What about maps that display an overlay over a basemap? This would lead to
> the overlay data provider mostly being pushed in the second row because it
> is quantitatively less, but the overlay data might be the rare unique data
> that is interesting. In case someone displayed an OpenStreetMap based
> overlay over a different background, why would we deliberately renounce
> from attribution in these cases?
>
> We shouldn't as it would violate the license.
>
>
> It is crucial that the 50% relate to the actually visible map features,
> and not to the total map. If the latter was possible, you could just fill
> your db with random crap in the middle of the ocean and distort the
> proportion.
>
> Obviously, we know those dirty tricks. Fatmap is a perfect example of that
> https://fatmap.com/adventures/@38.6755407,-9.1596113,3096.1899062,-40.2439178,19.7162561,31.6575309,normal
> and there's is plenty of room to add the attribution visibly.
>
>
> To be honest i'm kinda fed up of all of this, nothing happens. And it's a
> shame stating "the license doesn't say this or that", it neither says you
> must attribute with the exact text “© OpenStreetMap contributors”, must
> be unreasonable calculated to acknowledge. Common sense and fairness is all
> needed, not crappy legal interpretations and placing fear for legal actions
> from corporate interests. Sadly i'm starting to believe the concerns that
> some have shared on the list that OSMF is being "controlled" by corporate
> interests and not by the spirit that it was created.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-dk] Rettelser til DAR og OISfixes

2019-08-13 Per discussione Ole Laursen
Den tir. 13. aug. 2019 kl. 15.16 skrev Jørgen Elgaard Larsen :
> På Rashers side kunne man se kort over, hvor der var adressenoder uden
> en tilsvarende vej i nærheden (det kan man også nu på osm.elgaard.net)

Ja, Rashers side var super.

> I øvrigt er der stor forskel fra kommune til kommune på, hvordan de
> håndterer henvendelser om fejl. Nogle kommuner retter med det samme,
> andre har måske kun en enkelt medarbejder til opgaven - og vedkommende
> kan have mere presserende ting at lave.

Har du erfaringer med om de så ender med at rette det?

Måske kunne man godt få ca. samme flow ud af det (øjeblikkelig
rettelse, rettelser kan findes senere så kommunerne kan se dem) uden
at have den her database ved siden af, så vores QA-værktøjer kigger
direkte på dataene i OSM.


Ole

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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione Fabrizio Tambussa
Il Mar 13 Ago 2019, 19:00 demon_box  ha scritto:

> scratera wrote
> > ...la linea è la t23700b1 quindi metterei questo come ref
>
> non sono d'accordo @scratera perchè se leggi il wiki
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dmarker
>
> dice chiaramente che per la linea si usa cable:ref
>

In Italia pertutti gli elettrodotti Terna si è usato il tag ref:terna sulla
linea.
Saluti



>
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Re: [Talk-dk] Rettelser til DAR og OISfixes

2019-08-13 Per discussione Ole Laursen
Den tir. 13. aug. 2019 kl. 15.15 skrev Niels Elgaard Larsen :
> > - Gør det lettere at lave og vedligeholde en rettelse direkte i OSM,
> > f.eks. ved en AutoAWS for dummies-guide, og måske også ved at forbedre
> > AutoAWS' håndtering af senere opdateringer
>
> Kan du beskrive lidt nærmere, hvordan man skulle rette det i OSM?

Ved at registrere det direkte på adresseknuderne med et tag så AutoAWS
fatter hvad der er sket. Der er lige pt. et ignore-tag man kan putte
på. Jeg tænker, optimistisk, at det må kunne lade sig gøre at løse det
her på en nogenlunde elegant måde hvis bare AutoAWS kan bringes til at
forstå det.

Der er så det problem at der jo kan være mange adresser på en vej. Så
det er temmeligt irriterende. Men jeg ved ikke om vi har nogle
værktøjer hvor man kan lave en søg & erstat-lignende operation
nogenlunde enkelt? Det er trods alt en engangsoperation.

Alternativt kunne man måske lave et lille værktøj specifik til det.


Ole

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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione demon_box
scratera wrote
> ...la linea è la t23700b1 quindi metterei questo come ref 

non sono d'accordo @scratera perchè se leggi il wiki 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dmarker

dice chiaramente che per la linea si usa cable:ref

in effetti una vera ref del paletto non è scritta, l'unico dato che da
l'idea del riferimento preciso (ref)
di quel paletto è il progressivo del km, ad esempio nella prima foto si
legge
"Prog.km 00+886" e se usassi questo? cioè "ref=00+886" questo dato è l'unico
che mi specifica proprio QUEL paletto, che dite?

--enrico




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Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky pro Fody

2019-08-13 Per discussione Majka


13. srpna 2019 16:30:24 SELČ, "Mikoláš Štrajt"  napsal:

>nahrávám fotky z foťáku, které v sobě souřadnice nemají. Páruju to
>podle
>názvu rozcestníku nebo pořadí na cestě, tj. když tomu dám nějaké jiné
>souřadnice tak čistě podle mapy. Případně podle existující rozcestníku
>v
>mapě, tak by se mi hodila možnost je kopírovat tlačítkem.
>

Tohle není úplně dobrý nápad. Zrovna jsem opravovala dva rozcestníky, co byly 
zkreslené dost daleko od skutečné pozice (stovky metrů).
Pokud spoléháš na polohu z mapy, není šance na tohle přijít.

Majka 

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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione scratera
Alfredo Gattai wrote
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:34 PM scratera 

> pizpiz@

>  wrote:
> 
> ti di questo passo e questo è molto più preoccupante
>>
> 
> La differenza e' che purtroppo per le isole sara' definitivo e quindi
> semplicemente andranno tolte mentre per gli oggetti in quarantena qualcuno
> dovra' passare ad aggiornare le codifiche a lavori finiti.
> 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html
>>
>> ___
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>> 

> Talk-it@

>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>
> 
> ___
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> Talk-it@

> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

..e quindi dove stà il problema...nel frattemp nessuno va a mettersi nelle
grane come già successo...



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] OpenInfraMap - suggestion

2019-08-13 Per discussione Francois Gouget
On Mon, 12 Aug 2019, David Crochet wrote:

> Bonjour
> 
> Je ne sais pas si les contributeur a OpenInfraMap sont également sur 
> cette liste, mais Il serait intéressant de modulé l'opacité des données, 
> car les données "Oil & Gaz" étant d'une couleur très clair, il est pas 
> facile de les visualiser.

Si je peux aussi me permettre une suggestion, ce serait vraiment 
pratique pour s'y retrouver d'avoir le nom de 3 où 4 villes dans le fond 
de carte à chaque niveau de zoom.

Par exemple à l'heure actuelle typiquement les seuls éléments qui ont un 
nom sont les postes électriques comme ceux de Asnière-sur-Nouère et 
Fléac. Mais ce n'est pas très parlant (à part peut-être pour les gens du 
coin) et avoir un label "Angoulème" là où se trouve la grande ville 
proche permettrait tout de suite de savoir qu'il s'agit de sa banlieue.


Il y a aussi un problème avec les liens vers les noeuds OpenStreetMap 
(mais je suppose qu'il s'agit d'un problème déjà connu).
Par exemple :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1399460508
vs. https://openstreetmap.org/node/1399460508

-- 
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Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky pro Fody

2019-08-13 Per discussione Mikoláš Štrajt

Dík za odpověď




"> - za jak dlouho zmizí "chybí foto" u nově nahraných rozcestníků, případně
co zbývá doplnit?
analyza se pocita kazdou hodiny, takze do 2 hodin od nahrani by melo
byt dle aktualniho stavu."



tohle už je


 

"> - jak řešit situaci, kdy se nedají všechny šipky rozcestníku vyfotit
najednou? kompozicí z více fotek?
neskladat, vlozit do Fody vice fotek k jednomu rozcestniku."
 

nahrát novou fotku, dát ji kousek vedle a opsat tam ref rozcestníku, chápu
správně?




"> A ještě jeden feature request:
> Šlo by, že by se při vkládání fotky z přes tlačítko "Vložit fotografii"
(na kontrole OsmHiCheck) předvyplnilo GPS rozcestníku?
Tomu uplne nerozumim, souradnice se berou z fotky."



nahrávám fotky z foťáku, které v sobě souřadnice nemají. Páruju to podle
názvu rozcestníku nebo pořadí na cestě, tj. když tomu dám nějaké jiné
souřadnice tak čistě podle mapy. Případně podle existující rozcestníku v
mapě, tak by se mi hodila možnost je kopírovat tlačítkem.


 

--


Severák
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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 13. Aug 2019, at 16:06, Alfredo Gattai  wrote:
> 
> Soltanto dentro al taginfo se guardi il florilegio di 
> destroyed:highway
> dismantled:highway
> disappeared:highway
> etc...
> c'e' da farsi venire l'emicrania



esattamente, solo che non fa niente per tutti quelli che non si interessano per 
oggetti spariti, dismessi, abbandonati, smantellati, guasti o disfunzionali. 
Mentre il mare di disused=yes dismantled=yes disappeared=yes aggiunto agli 
amenity=hospital creava parecchia confusione prima...


Ciao Martin 
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Re: [talk-cz] source tag pro data od jeskyňářů

2019-08-13 Per discussione Miroslav Suchy
Já osobně bych se rád vyhnul diakritice. Nicméněmě, přidal jsem navrhovaná 
označení do Doodlu (včetně Tomova).
M.

Dne 12. 08. 19 v 18:50 Pavel Bokr napsal(a):
> V organizaci (pracuji tam brigadne na DPP, sem tam cas od casu vypomaham jako 
> pokladni a dispecer vyprav v Konepruskych
> jeskynich) se pouziva zkratka SJČR s velkym pismenem J (vubec si nevzpominam, 
> ze bych to nekdy vubec videl napsane s
> malym pismenem j) takze za mne asi nejlepe cz:SJCR nebo pokud chceme 
> diakritiku tak cz:SJČR

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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione Alfredo Gattai
Mahdubito che chi non si attiene troppo alle wiki inventando tag a
piacere poi possa essere piu' diligente con i prefix.
Soltanto dentro al taginfo se guardi il florilegio di
destroyed:highway
dismantled:highway
disappeared:highway
etc...
c'e' da farsi venire l'emicrania
Detto questo, come ho detto prima, io per forma mentis non apprezzo questo
approccio perche' nella pratica l'ho trovato fallimentare e mai applicato
nelle migliori pratiche che riguardano i database ma per fortuna OSM e' un
mondo libero che si autoregola. Per le query bastera' usare un LIKE e si
trova tutto, non c'e' problema.

Lato CAI e lato Enti vari, una volta che si passa a rispristinare dovremo
comunque rimappare quindi non fa molta differenza.

Alfredo



>
> il problema con questo approccio è che richiede un elenco di possibili
> valori predefiniti e limitati, nonché una certa disciplina nella loro
> applicazione. In confronto nel mondo OpenStreetMap la possibilità di tag è
> infinita, e nella nostra breve storia abbiamo già riscontrati svariati
> problemi con i modificatori, che possono cambiare o addirittura invertire
> il significato di un oggetto (per esempio gente metteva razed=yes ad
> oggetti storici di cui non esisteva più alcuna traccia, ma chi non cercava
> questo modificatore pensava erano oggetti esistenti). Con questo approccio
> tutte le applicazioni devono sempre guardare e interpretare tutti i
> possibili modificatori.
>
> La soluzione di usare un’altra chiave principale per oggetti in uno stato
> significativamente diversi, è nata da questi problemi. Con il metodo
> strutturato di cambiare la chiave (prefisso) è prevedibile dove cercare gli
> oggetti in certi stati, mentre il default per sistemi che non fanno niente
> in particolare è che non li vedono più. Per le persone umane è molto
> leggibile, per esempio se vedi nel diff che un amenity è diventato un
> disused:amenity lo capisci anche senza aver saputo del prefisso disused.
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione Alfredo Gattai
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:34 PM scratera  wrote:

> ...viene fatto sparire da alcuni rendering...ma se vuoi puoi fartene uno in
> cui resti...trovo più logico questo
>

Per carita', mi bastano ed avanzano quelli che ci sono! Era solo per
rimarcare il concetto di fare una cosa come va fatta e non per il rendering


> ...dal resto non viene eliminato ma solo messo in "quarantena" alla grande
> massa degli utilizzatori dei dati gia preconfezionati...dal mio punto di
> vista perchè se un qualcosa non è più utilizzabile e non si vede più perchè
> sommerso da qualcosa non vedo perchè continuare a vederlo
> ...tra non molto si dovranno eliminare anche parecchie isolette se andiamo
> avanti di questo passo e questo è molto più preoccupante
>

La differenza e' che purtroppo per le isole sara' definitivo e quindi
semplicemente andranno tolte mentre per gli oggetti in quarantena qualcuno
dovra' passare ad aggiornare le codifiche a lavori finiti.

>
>
>
> --
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Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky pro Fody

2019-08-13 Per discussione Tom Ka
út 13. 8. 2019 v 13:52 odesílatel Mikoláš Štrajt  napsal:
Ahoj,

> - k tomu aby se rozcestník přestal zobrazovat s otazníčkem je nutné přidat 
> tag "pesi" (nebo nějaký jiný kromě "rozcestnik")?
ano, pro rozcestniky je potreba jeste jeho typ, aby se vedelo, k cemu
parovat. tj. pesi, cyklo apod.

> - za jak dlouho zmizí "chybí foto" u nově nahraných rozcestníků, případně co 
> zbývá doplnit?
analyza se pocita kazdou hodiny, takze do 2 hodin od nahrani by melo
byt dle aktualniho stavu.

> - mám fotky před nahráváním nějak upravovat? (zmenšovat velikost - přecejen 
> to má 5MB, případně otáčet)
ne, tak jak je, original.

> - jak řešit situaci, kdy se nedají všechny šipky rozcestníku vyfotit 
> najednou? kompozicí z více fotek?
neskladat, vlozit do Fody vice fotek k jednomu rozcestniku.
>
> A ještě jeden feature request:
> Šlo by, že by se při vkládání fotky z přes tlačítko "Vložit fotografii" (na 
> kontrole OsmHiCheck) předvyplnilo GPS rozcestníku?
Tomu uplne nerozumim, souradnice se berou z fotky.

Diky za fotky a mej se.

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Re: [Talk-de] Wiki editieren

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 13. Aug 2019, at 11:45, Markus via Talk-de  
> wrote:
> 
> - "natural" bezeichnet manchmal die Klasse "Material" (Wasser, Sand)
>  manchmal die Klasse "Form" (Allee, Bucht, Meeresenge)
> (aber das ist ein anderes Thema... ;-) )
> 


ja, anderes Thema. Water wird als key (sub-typ) dann auch zur Form (See, Teich, 
Tümpel etc.), sand und mud würde ich nie im Leben verwenden für den natural 
Schluessel



> Auch didaktisch könnte da noch einiges verbessert werden.
> Ich habe mal "Heide" verlinkt - aber was ist der Unterschied zu "scrub"?


die Bewuchsdichte z.B.? Die Bodenzusammensetzung (die ja auch wieder zu 
bestimmtem Bewuchs führt)? Heide ist eher ein großräumiger Landschaftstyp, 
scrub eher ein feature (Gestrüpp/Dickicht).

Gruß Martin 
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Re: [Talk-dk] Rettelser til DAR og OISfixes

2019-08-13 Per discussione Jørgen Elgaard Larsen

Ole Laursen skrev:

Det kan sikkert løses, men jeg ved ikke om vi i stedet skal gå efter
at nedlægge OISfixes?


Det synes jeg ikke. Så skal vi i hvert fald lave noget tilsvarende.

Vi havde engang et rigtigt godt QA-værktøj i samspillet mellem 
adresseimporten, OISfixes og osm.rasher.dk


På Rashers side kunne man se kort over, hvor der var adressenoder uden 
en tilsvarende vej i nærheden (det kan man også nu på osm.elgaard.net)


Men derudover var der en liste, hvor man for hver kommune kunne gå ind 
og se, hvilke fejl, der var registeret af OSM-communityet i den 
pågældende kommune.


Det var de glade for i de fleste kommuner, og flere af dem brugte det 
aktivt. Det ville være godt at få op igen. Det ville være trivielt at 
lægge ind på osm.elgaard.net.


I øvrigt er der stor forskel fra kommune til kommune på, hvordan de 
håndterer henvendelser om fejl. Nogle kommuner retter med det samme, 
andre har måske kun en enkelt medarbejder til opgaven - og vedkommende 
kan have mere presserende ting at lave.


Det er ærgerligt, hvis OSM har forkerte data, fordi enkelte kommuner er 
lidt sløve til at rette fejl.


Så jeg synes bestemt, vi skal bevare OISfixes - og gerne udvide med 
flere QA-værktøjer.




- Jørgen

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Re: [Talk-dk] Rettelser til DAR og OISfixes

2019-08-13 Per discussione Niels Elgaard Larsen
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:35:56 +0200
Ole Laursen  wrote:

> Hej allesammen!
> 
> Jørgen Elgaard har gjort opmærksom på at man ikke kan lave nye
> rettelser i OISfixes fordi AutoAWS-importeren ikke længere importerer
> nogle bestemte tags som kommunerne bruger til at identificere vejene
> med.
> 
> Det kan sikkert løses, men jeg ved ikke om vi i stedet skal gå efter
> at nedlægge OISfixes?

Måske, men ikke før vi har noget andet på plads.
 
> I min optik skulle der så ske følgende:
> 
> - Gør det lettere at rapportere en fejl til kommunerne (jeg har
> skrevet til DAR om ikke de kan lave en side til det, alternativt kunne
> vi måske selv gøre det)


Det ville være dejligt, men jeg vil se det virke godt før jeg tror på
det. 

> - Gør det lettere at lave og vedligeholde en rettelse direkte i OSM,
> f.eks. ved en AutoAWS for dummies-guide, og måske også ved at forbedre
> AutoAWS' håndtering af senere opdateringer

Kan du beskrive lidt nærmere, hvordan man skulle rette det i OSM?
 
> - Noget migreringsarbejde af de eksisterende rettelser





-- 
Niels

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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 13. Aug 2019, at 14:37, scratera  wrote:
> 
> ...occhio però perchè se vuoi mappare la linea quella non si trova sotto il
> paletto ma a tot a dx o sx come viene riportato sulla tabella


certo, però non cambia praticamente niente per noi (1.50 o 2.80 m non sono 
distinguibili nella nostra precisione, perché non potremmo solitamente rilevare 
la posizione del marker a qualcosa di più preciso che qualche metro, e anche se 
avessi un dgps con 1cm di precisione tutti gli altri mappatori non ne avrebbero)


Ciao Martin 




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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 13. Aug 2019, at 13:06, Alfredo Gattai  wrote:
> 
> Nella totalita' dei database siano essi stradali, marini, aeronautici, non si 
> usa mai modificare il nome di un'oggetto aggiungendo un prefisso per indicare 
> una condizione ma ci sono attributi specifici (tag nel nostro caso) che ne 
> definiscono la condizione.


il problema con questo approccio è che richiede un elenco di possibili valori 
predefiniti e limitati, nonché una certa disciplina nella loro applicazione. In 
confronto nel mondo OpenStreetMap la possibilità di tag è infinita, e nella 
nostra breve storia abbiamo già riscontrati svariati problemi con i 
modificatori, che possono cambiare o addirittura invertire il significato di un 
oggetto (per esempio gente metteva razed=yes ad oggetti storici di cui non 
esisteva più alcuna traccia, ma chi non cercava questo modificatore pensava 
erano oggetti esistenti). Con questo approccio tutte le applicazioni devono 
sempre guardare e interpretare tutti i possibili modificatori.

La soluzione di usare un’altra chiave principale per oggetti in uno stato 
significativamente diversi, è nata da questi problemi. Con il metodo 
strutturato di cambiare la chiave (prefisso) è prevedibile dove cercare gli 
oggetti in certi stati, mentre il default per sistemi che non fanno niente in 
particolare è che non li vedono più. Per le persone umane è molto leggibile, 
per esempio se vedi nel diff che un amenity è diventato un disused:amenity lo 
capisci anche senza aver saputo del prefisso disused.

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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione scratera
...occhio però perchè se vuoi mappare la linea quella non si trova sotto il
paletto ma a tot a dx o sx come viene riportato sulla tabella
...la linea è la t23700b1 quindi metterei questo come ref 



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[Talk-dk] Rettelser til DAR og OISfixes

2019-08-13 Per discussione Ole Laursen
Hej allesammen!

Jørgen Elgaard har gjort opmærksom på at man ikke kan lave nye
rettelser i OISfixes fordi AutoAWS-importeren ikke længere importerer
nogle bestemte tags som kommunerne bruger til at identificere vejene
med.

Det kan sikkert løses, men jeg ved ikke om vi i stedet skal gå efter
at nedlægge OISfixes?

I min optik skulle der så ske følgende:

- Gør det lettere at rapportere en fejl til kommunerne (jeg har
skrevet til DAR om ikke de kan lave en side til det, alternativt kunne
vi måske selv gøre det)

- Gør det lettere at lave og vedligeholde en rettelse direkte i OSM,
f.eks. ved en AutoAWS for dummies-guide, og måske også ved at forbedre
AutoAWS' håndtering af senere opdateringer

- Noget migreringsarbejde af de eksisterende rettelser

Andre tanker?


Ole

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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione scratera
...viene fatto sparire da alcuni rendering...ma se vuoi puoi fartene uno in
cui resti...trovo più logico questo
...dal resto non viene eliminato ma solo messo in "quarantena" alla grande
massa degli utilizzatori dei dati gia preconfezionati...dal mio punto di
vista perchè se un qualcosa non è più utilizzabile e non si vede più perchè
sommerso da qualcosa non vedo perchè continuare a vederlo
...tra non molto si dovranno eliminare anche parecchie isolette se andiamo
avanti di questo passo e questo è molto più preoccupante



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Requête Overpass

2019-08-13 Per discussione Eric SIBERT via Talk-fr

Le 12/08/2019 à 22:17, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :
J'ai commencé à regarder avec la diff d'Overpass Comme ton problème ce 
sont les modifs hgv:conditional ajoutées il y a environ un an je propose 
ceci : http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Lt Y 
, 2 622 chemins.


Imparfait, mais tu dois voir ce qui t'intéresse.


Oui, ça permet déjà de voir l'ampleur des dégâts... dégâts qui sont 
moins étendus que ce que je pensais. Surtout des autoroutes et quelques 
routes principalement en Rhône-Alpes, un peu en Île-de-France.


Je vais traiter département par département.

Merci

Eric

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Re: [Talk-es] Sobre las carreteras "highway = trunk" y OSMAnd

2019-08-13 Per discussione Alejandro Moreno
Por no dejar muerto este tema que me parece interesante. ¿Qué os parece si
en Septiembre, que ya estaremos todos operativos, montamos una votación en
la wiki y decidimos el criterio a usar?

El jue., 18 jul. 2019 a las 20:31, Jaume Figueras i Jové (<
jaume.figue...@masafi.cat>) escribió:

> +1 a @yopaseopor
>
> No hay caso más evidente de mapeo para el render que seguir
> exclusivamente la clasificación administrativa (que no técnica) de las
> carreteras. Ambas clasificaciones (administrativa y técnica) hechas por
> las administraciones públicas. La clasificación administrativa es una
> clasificación política y presupuestaria, la técnica es eso, técnica, una
> clasificación según las características físicas.
>
> La definición de equivalencias la hizo Iván en 2007 a partir de la
> clasificación administrativa que aparecía en el BOE principalmente.
> Evidentemente por algo se tiene que empezar y sin duda, empezar un
> proyecto de estas características en españa un gran trabajo. En ese
> momento talk-es debían ser 4 personas y solo una contestó la propuesta
> en talk-es.
>
> A partir de aquí esta definición se ha convertido en axiomática y
> siempre se ha pedido a quienes no nos gusta mil explicaciones, mil
> justificaciones y se ha buscado que el tema muera de agotamiento. Pero
> claro, no acaba de morir, por que pasa el tiempo y nuevas personas se
> preguntan una y otra vez cómo puede ser que la carretera XXX sea trunk!!
>
> Pues hago la propuesta al revés, los "administrativos" justificad por
> qué vuestra clasificación es mejor que la física. Por qué una carretera
> debe cambiar de trunk a primary o viceversa si la titularidad
> político-administrativa cambia. Por qué carreteras sin arcén y de una
> calzada son trunk y carreteras con mejores características no. Por qué
> la N-260 en su paso en Seira sin arcén ni eje pintado es trunk?
>
> Salut!
>
> P.S: Por cierto, por si no se sabe, el criterio administrativo no se
> sigue. La realidad es muy dura! En Seira, la N-260 en sus 15 ediciones
> ha cambiado de tipo de vía 12 veces. Un consenso de la hostia,
> oigan
>
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[talk-cz] Rozcestníky pro Fody

2019-08-13 Per discussione Mikoláš Štrajt

Ahoj,

tak mě moje výlety po delší době donesly někam, kde ještě nebyl Milancer s
foťákem :-D , konkrétně na červenou značku Roztoky u Karlštejna - Nižbor.

Pilně jsem tam fotil rozcestníky a teď jsem je nahrával do Fody a mám k tomu
pár otázek/připomínek:




- k tomu aby se rozcestník přestal zobrazovat s otazníčkem je nutné přidat
tag "pesi" (nebo nějaký jiný kromě "rozcestnik")?

- za jak dlouho zmizí "chybí foto" u nově nahraných rozcestníků, případně co
zbývá doplnit?

- mám fotky před nahráváním nějak upravovat? (zmenšovat velikost - přecejen
to má 5MB, případně otáčet)

- jak řešit situaci, kdy se nedají všechny šipky rozcestníku vyfotit
najednou? kompozicí z více fotek?




Dík. Případné rady si vezmu k srdci a u těchto fotek je ještě upravím,
protože jsem si všiml, že tyto rozcestníky mají jiné referenční číslo oproti
tomu v reálu, takže to budu ještě upravovat.




(např. RA112 na mapě vs 0001/31x v reálu)





A ještě jeden feature request:




Šlo by, že by se při vkládání fotky z přes tlačítko "Vložit fotografii" (na
kontrole OsmHiCheck) předvyplnilo GPS rozcestníku?




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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Houston, TX, open data policy license compliance

2019-08-13 Per discussione Simon Poole
While the policy is undoutably good, it does not follow that all data
published actually conforms to it (for example third party rights in
existing data could be an issue).

In any case on data.houstontx.gov the licence is specified for 7
datasets, so I assume the intent is to do that for all over time (you
should ask).

The related problem is that you will need to obtain a waiver for CC BY
material as CC BY is in many ways more restrictive than the ODbL (see
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/).

Simon

Am 13.08.2019 um 08:24 schrieb JS:
> Hi everyone,
>
> The city of Houston has published several open data sets at
> data.houstontx.gov and cohgis-mycity.opendata.arcgis.com/. While the
> data sets and open data websites do not contain any licensing-related
> text, there's a general open data policy at
> http://www.houstontx.gov/adminpolicies/8-7.html.
>
> Am I right to assume that this policy, in particular the definition of
> "open data" at No 6, is sufficiently clear so as to use the data
> without further permission?
>
> Thanks for your opinions!
>
> Best,
> Jan
> -- 
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
>
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[Talk-lt] Registrų centro duomenys

2019-08-13 Per discussione Mantas
Sveiki,

kitą savaitę susitinku su Registrų Centru pasikalbėti apie atvirus
duomenis. Jei kas nežino, tai Registrų Centras jau žengė pirmą žingsnį
ir atvėrė
dalį NTR duomenų

.

Taip pat, jei dar kas nežino, dėl duomenų atvėrimo vyksta vieša konsultacija
,
kur duomenų naudotojai kviečiami balsuoti ir diskutuoti apie tai kokių
duomenų reikia ir kam jie galėtų būti panaudoti.

Su Registrų Centru kalbėsimės apie tai, kokie duomenys yra labiausiai
aktualūs. Registrų Centras yra pateikęs šiuos duomenų rinkinius kurie
galėtų būti atverti:

https://gitlab.com/atviriduomenys/manifest/issues?label_name[]=Registrų
centras_name[]=Duomenys

Jei turite minčių kokie duomenys yra labiausiai reikalingi, balsuokit
Gitlab sąraše arba tiesiog rašykit laišką ir nurodykit duomenų rinkinį iš
sąrašo ir parašykit kodėl tų duomenų reikia, kur jie galėtų būti panaudoti
ir kodėl jie reikalingi.

Kitą savaitę peržiūrėsiu visus komentarus ir perduosiu informaciją Registrų
Centrui.


-- 
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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer
certo, è sempre uguale e quindi riferito alla linea e non al marker. Volendo 
potresti usare un’altra chiave, ma al meno in questo caso non fa differenza 
(perché i marker non hanno dei propri ref oppure noi non le vediamo)


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Re: [Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 13. Aug 2019, at 12:14, demon_box  wrote:
> 
> l'unico tag che non sò come gestire è la "ref" del paletto stesso, voi che
> dite?



ci metterei il numero sul marker (è l’unico numero presente tranne la tensione 
e il numero telefonico). 

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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione Alfredo Gattai
Ciao,

non ne discuto la legittimita' a livello di wiki e di taginfo,
Quello che ho voluto spiegare da un punto di vista di chi ci lavora con
queste cose e' che talvolta alcune soluzioni "filosoficamente" affascinanti
e corrette, nella pratica sono piu' dannose che utili.
Nella totalita' dei database siano essi stradali, marini, aeronautici, non
si usa mai modificare il nome di un'oggetto aggiungendo un prefisso per
indicare una condizione ma ci sono attributi specifici (tag nel nostro
caso) che ne definiscono la condizione.
Anche da un punto di vista di query e' tutto molto piu' logico e semplice.

Detto questo non dovete necessariamente darmi retta, se mi trovo con i miei
colleghi CAI a dover analizzare alcune di queste situazioni, studieremo una
rosa di query adatte a scovare i casi.

L'importante dal mio punto di vista e' di non scegliere la via del prefix
solo perche' "fa sparire" la roba dalla visualizzazione. Questo si non va
bene.

Ciao
Alfredo



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:42 PM Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> Alfredo,
>
> Il "lifecycle suffix" è un approccio utilizzato parecchio e descritto nle
> wiki:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_life_cycle_concepts
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lifecycle_prefix
>
> Non vedo perché non è applicabile anche in questo caso.
> abandoned:highway=path è in uso 2000 volte, secondo Taginfo.
>
> Volker
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 12:19, Alfredo Gattai 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> ...è quello che ho fatto fino ad ora...spezzata la traccia e inserito
>>> >> abandoned:highway=path ...aggiungendo appunto abandoned: prima del
>>> >> suffisso
>>> >
>>>
>>
>> Torno a riproporre quello che avevo scritto un po' di tempo fa.
>> Cambiare la highway in abandoned:highway e' una stortura dal punto di
>> vista del DB.
>> Non si cambia un oggetto per dargli delle caratteristiche, semmai si
>> aggiunge un tag.
>>
>> Inoltre questa pratica, specialmente se fatta per rimuovere dal rendering
>> o dal routing la tratta e' sua volta una cosa sbagliata perche' come non si
>> mappa per il rendering non si mappa per il routing.
>>
>> Chi fa le app ed i siti si deve adeguare al DB e non viceversa.
>>
>> Ultima cosa, ci sono vari enti che si stanno prodigando per
>> risistemare/modificare/riattare i percorsi e fare sparire dalla vista
>> quelli originali (o renderli piu' difficili da trovare con query) non solo
>> non e' di aiuto ma crea problemi.
>>
>> L'escursionista non basa la propria gita sul fatto che una tratta si vede
>> o no su OSM, ma si informa adeguatamente prima di partire, se non lo fa,
>> impara per la prossima volta.
>>
>> Lasciate le tratte dove sono e limitatevi ad aggiungere i vari obstacle=
>> e altri tag utili. Poi, al prossimo vostro passaggio potrete mettere il
>> percorso giusto rimesso a posto.
>>
>> Anche le fonti istituzionali che potrebbero dare accesso per aggiungere
>> informazioni non sono cosi' affidabili e lo so per esperienza.
>> Mai come in questi casi e' necessario essere sul posto e verificare
>> personalmente prima di mappare.
>>
>> my 2 cents
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione Volker Schmidt
Alfredo,

Il "lifecycle suffix" è un approccio utilizzato parecchio e descritto nle
wiki:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_life_cycle_concepts
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lifecycle_prefix

Non vedo perché non è applicabile anche in questo caso.
abandoned:highway=path è in uso 2000 volte, secondo Taginfo.

Volker





On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 12:19, Alfredo Gattai 
wrote:

>
>> >>
>> >> ...è quello che ho fatto fino ad ora...spezzata la traccia e inserito
>> >> abandoned:highway=path ...aggiungendo appunto abandoned: prima del
>> >> suffisso
>> >
>>
>
> Torno a riproporre quello che avevo scritto un po' di tempo fa.
> Cambiare la highway in abandoned:highway e' una stortura dal punto di
> vista del DB.
> Non si cambia un oggetto per dargli delle caratteristiche, semmai si
> aggiunge un tag.
>
> Inoltre questa pratica, specialmente se fatta per rimuovere dal rendering
> o dal routing la tratta e' sua volta una cosa sbagliata perche' come non si
> mappa per il rendering non si mappa per il routing.
>
> Chi fa le app ed i siti si deve adeguare al DB e non viceversa.
>
> Ultima cosa, ci sono vari enti che si stanno prodigando per
> risistemare/modificare/riattare i percorsi e fare sparire dalla vista
> quelli originali (o renderli piu' difficili da trovare con query) non solo
> non e' di aiuto ma crea problemi.
>
> L'escursionista non basa la propria gita sul fatto che una tratta si vede
> o no su OSM, ma si informa adeguatamente prima di partire, se non lo fa,
> impara per la prossima volta.
>
> Lasciate le tratte dove sono e limitatevi ad aggiungere i vari obstacle= e
> altri tag utili. Poi, al prossimo vostro passaggio potrete mettere il
> percorso giusto rimesso a posto.
>
> Anche le fonti istituzionali che potrebbero dare accesso per aggiungere
> informazioni non sono cosi' affidabili e lo so per esperienza.
> Mai come in questi casi e' necessario essere sul posto e verificare
> personalmente prima di mappare.
>
> my 2 cents
>
> Alfredo
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione Alfredo Gattai
>
>
> >>
> >> ...è quello che ho fatto fino ad ora...spezzata la traccia e inserito
> >> abandoned:highway=path ...aggiungendo appunto abandoned: prima del
> >> suffisso
> >
>

Torno a riproporre quello che avevo scritto un po' di tempo fa.
Cambiare la highway in abandoned:highway e' una stortura dal punto di vista
del DB.
Non si cambia un oggetto per dargli delle caratteristiche, semmai si
aggiunge un tag.

Inoltre questa pratica, specialmente se fatta per rimuovere dal rendering o
dal routing la tratta e' sua volta una cosa sbagliata perche' come non si
mappa per il rendering non si mappa per il routing.

Chi fa le app ed i siti si deve adeguare al DB e non viceversa.

Ultima cosa, ci sono vari enti che si stanno prodigando per
risistemare/modificare/riattare i percorsi e fare sparire dalla vista
quelli originali (o renderli piu' difficili da trovare con query) non solo
non e' di aiuto ma crea problemi.

L'escursionista non basa la propria gita sul fatto che una tratta si vede o
no su OSM, ma si informa adeguatamente prima di partire, se non lo fa,
impara per la prossima volta.

Lasciate le tratte dove sono e limitatevi ad aggiungere i vari obstacle= e
altri tag utili. Poi, al prossimo vostro passaggio potrete mettere il
percorso giusto rimesso a posto.

Anche le fonti istituzionali che potrebbero dare accesso per aggiungere
informazioni non sono cosi' affidabili e lo so per esperienza.
Mai come in questi casi e' necessario essere sul posto e verificare
personalmente prima di mappare.

my 2 cents

Alfredo
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[Talk-it] power=marker per linea elettrica interrata

2019-08-13 Per discussione demon_box
ciao, qualche giorno fa mi sono imbattuto nella mia prima linea elettrica
interrata e di conseguenza ho trovato i paletti marcatori (power=marker)

queste sono le foto 4 paletti marcatori in ordine reale di successione

 

 

 

 

l'unico tag che non sò come gestire è la "ref" del paletto stesso, voi che
dite?

grazie

--enrico





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Re: [Talk-it] Rovi su track

2019-08-13 Per discussione Alfredo Gattai
La questione e' piu' semplice di quel che sembra.
Se passi di li occasionalmente e quindi rilevi una situazione di quel
momento puoi solo mettere obstacle=vegetation.
Se sei della zona o ci vai spesso ed hai informazioni certe puoi anche
aggiungere abandoned.
Il punto sta nel non cercare di dare troppo informazioni non certe e non
mantenibili.

Alfredo

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 9:46 PM emmexx  wrote:

> On 08/12/2019 06:50 PM, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> > Penso che questo è una tipica questione di conoscenza del territorio.
> > Bisogna capire se si tratta di un sentiero mantenuto o meno. Se
> > normalmente mantenuto i rovi possono essere un fenomeno transitorio.
> > mappatura con obstacle=vegetation come dice Alfredo. Se invece non è più
> > mantenuto, basta un anno e non ci passi più. In questo caso aggiungerei
> > abandoned.
>
> Ciao Volker,
>
> ma come si fa a sapere se sono mantenuti? Si tratta di sentieri usati
> ormai solo per raccogliere la legna in zona collinare/montana. Adesso ci
> sono i rovi ma un giorno qualcuno della zona o qualche proprietario di
> un pezzo bosco potrebbe aver bisogno di passare e ripulisce il sentiero.
>
> In un caso specifico in cui mi sono imbattuto ieri il track è ben
> definito e pulito sino a 15/20 metri da una strada provinciale
> asfaltata, poi ci sono i rovi. È impraticabile passare a piedi ma in
> mezz'ora con una motosega si potrebbe ripulire tutto. Evidentemente però
> nessuno negli ultimi 2/3 anni ha avuto necessità di accedere da lì.
>
> maxx
>
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Re: [Talk-de] Wiki editieren

2019-08-13 Per discussione Harald Hartmann
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:DE:Map_Features:natural
> 
> Aber wieso ist das Dingens so unübersichtlich?
> und sogar umgekehrt(?) sortiert?

Kann ich leider nicht beantworten.

> Man könnte ja wenigstens die Zwischenüberschriften und Leerzeilen einfügen?

Zwischenüberschriften sind doch drin mit Vegetation, Wasser, Gebirge.
Leerzeilen, hmm, gute Frage.

> Und "Unter-Vorlagen" machen die Vorlage noch schwerer editierbar.
> Vielleicht können da die Vorlagen-Profis nochmal Hand anlegen?

Jaein, dachte ich am Anfang auch erst, aber es ist einfach
strukturierter und wiederverwendbarer.

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Re: [Talk-de] Wiki editieren

2019-08-13 Per discussione Markus via Talk-de
Danke Harald, das hat geklappt:

> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:DE:Map_Features:natural

Aber wieso ist das Dingens so unübersichtlich?
und sogar umgekehrt(?) sortiert?

Man könnte ja wenigstens die Zwischenüberschriften und Leerzeilen einfügen?

Und "Unter-Vorlagen" machen die Vorlage noch schwerer editierbar.

Vielleicht können da die Vorlagen-Profis nochmal Hand anlegen?

Gruss, Markus

PS: danke auch an Wulf! "Wisiwig" ist aber nicht so mein Ding.

PPS: Auch systematisch wäre da noch viel zu verbessern:
- wer dort nach "Wald" sucht,
  fand den bei uns üblichen forstwirtschaftlich genutzten Wald nicht.
- viele Flächen-Objekte sind auch als "Punkt" vorgeschlagen
  (sogar Gletscher)
- "natural" bezeichnet manchmal die Klasse "Material" (Wasser, Sand)
  manchmal die Klasse "Form" (Allee, Bucht, Meeresenge)
(aber das ist ein anderes Thema... ;-) )

Auch didaktisch könnte da noch einiges verbessert werden.
Ich habe mal "Heide" verlinkt - aber was ist der Unterschied zu "scrub"?
Man könnte auch "Gleichartiges" untereinander schreiben (rock und
bare_rock, Sand und Strand) und den Unterschied definieren.
(aber auch das ist ein anderes Thema ;-) )

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Re: [Talk-it] Tempesta VAIA

2019-08-13 Per discussione pietro marzani via Talk-it
Segnalo a riguardo del tema che sul sito del Servizio Foreste della Provincia 
di Trento è disponibile una cartografia (in pdf) delle zone di bosco 
danneggiate che potrebbe essere utile come base per verifiche sul posto:

https://forestefauna.provincia.tn.it/content/download/14456/246977/file/CartografiaInterventi.pdf

Sul sito della SAT invece c'è una cartografia con i sentieri gestiti 
dall'associazione chiusi al transito:

https://sentieri.sat.tn.it/wp/?page_id=65

Per quest'ultima secondo me sarebbe utile valutare un accordo per poter copiare 
le informazioni direttamente dalle schede sentiero consultabili sul sito.

Ciao
Pietro




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Re: [Talk-de] Wiki editieren

2019-08-13 Per discussione Wulf4096
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 09:29:37 +0200, Markus via Talk-de wrote:
> Klar - aber im Editierfenster steht nicht der erwartete Quellcode,
> sondern: {{Template:De:Map Features:natural}}
> 
> Dazu bräuchte ich eine Anleitung.
> (einen Link "hier editieren" oder so habe ich nicht gefunden)

Du kannst auf "edit" drücken und dann im wysiwyg-Editor auf das Template
klicken. Dann geht ein popup auf. Dann nochmal auf Edit.
Dann geht ein weiteres Popup auf. Dort ist ein Link zu
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:De:Map_Features:natural
Dort kannst du dann nochmal auf "Edit source" klicken und landest bei
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:DE:Map_Features:natural=edit

Oder du kannst direkt diesen Seitentitel aus dem Quellcode der ersten
Seite nehmen und in deine Adresszeile kopieren.

Oder du gehst auf https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:natural mal
nach nach unten, dort hat jemand einen Link einebaut:

This table is a wiki template with a default description in English.


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Re: [Talk-de] Wiki editieren

2019-08-13 Per discussione Harald Hartmann
Na wenn das so da steht, dann musst du halt die Seite

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:DE:Map_Features:natural

editieren ;-)


Am 13.08.19 um 09:29 schrieb Markus via Talk-de:
> Hallo Wulf,
> 
>>> wie editiere ich diese Seite:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:natural
>>
>> Einloggen und auf "Edit" bzw. "Edit source" drücken?
> 
> Klar - aber im Editierfenster steht nicht der erwartete Quellcode,
> sondern: {{Template:De:Map Features:natural}}
> 
> Dazu bräuchte ich eine Anleitung.
> (einen Link "hier editieren" oder so habe ich nicht gefunden)
> 
> Gruss, Markus
> 
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Re: [Talk-africa] [OSM-Talk-ZA] Fwd: [Osmf-talk] SotM 2020

2019-08-13 Per discussione Bernelle Verster
Hi

There is now a bid for Cape Town. I don't have a team yet, so this
group posting is to call any interested peoples to add their name and
share ideas for what they'd like to see.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/Call_for_venues/CapeTown

You can find me through email or IRC (indiebio).

regards
Bernelle

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 6:56 AM Enock Seth Nyamador  wrote:
>
> FYI
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> De : Christine Karch 
> Date: mar. 18 juin 2019 à 23:59
> Subject: [Osmf-talk] SotM 2020
> To: , Talk Openstreetmap 
>
>
> Hello OSM community,
>
> at the moment we have no venue for SotM 2020. There are no candidates
> even yet. Hello world! Is there any OSM community who would like to host
> SotM spontaneous? We extend the call for bids until end of August. We
> would like to present the SotM 2020 in Heidelberg during SotM 2019.
>
> Please use our wiki form for the formal part of your bid [1]. But don't
> hesitate to ask questions to the SotM working group via email.
>
> Did you ever consider to provide the unconference format? This could be
> an amazing change to what we are used. Or should we just meet for a
> barbecue? :)
>
> Or how about an upgrade of your local conference to a global?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Christine
>
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/Call_for_venues
>
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>
> --
> Best,
> -Enock
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Re: [Talk-de] Wiki editieren

2019-08-13 Per discussione Markus via Talk-de
Hallo Wulf,

>> wie editiere ich diese Seite:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:natural
>
> Einloggen und auf "Edit" bzw. "Edit source" drücken?

Klar - aber im Editierfenster steht nicht der erwartete Quellcode,
sondern: {{Template:De:Map Features:natural}}

Dazu bräuchte ich eine Anleitung.
(einen Link "hier editieren" oder so habe ich nicht gefunden)

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-de] Wiki editieren

2019-08-13 Per discussione Wulf4096
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 08:54:28 +0200, Markus via Talk-de wrote:
> wie editiere ich diese Seite:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:natural

Hallo!

Einloggen und auf "Edit" bzw. "Edit source" drücken?
Evt. ist dein Account nicht zum Editieren freigeschaltet.
Was ist dein Accountname in OSM und im Wiki?
Was steht bei https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Preferences
unter "Member of groups"? Bei mir: "Autoconfirmed users, Users".

Grüße


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[Talk-de] Wiki editieren

2019-08-13 Per discussione Markus via Talk-de
Steh grad etwas auf dem Schlauch...
wie editiere ich diese Seite:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:natural

Gruss, Markus


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[OSM-legal-talk] Houston, TX, open data policy license compliance

2019-08-13 Per discussione JS
Hi everyone,

The city of Houston has published several open data sets at data.houstontx.gov 
and cohgis-mycity.opendata.arcgis.com/. While the data sets and open data 
websites do not contain any licensing-related text, there's a general open data 
policy at http://www.houstontx.gov/adminpolicies/8-7.html.

Am I right to assume that this policy, in particular the definition of "open 
data" at No 6, is sufficiently clear so as to use the data without further 
permission?

Thanks for your opinions!

Best,
Jan
-- 
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