Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?

[Volker Ahrendt]

[Reply to: »Vili« · 2008-02-27 · 17:06 h (CET)]

Moin, Vili!

> In some simple words, what is SocksCap is good for? Read the info on
> the net, but I dont really get it...

Read this: 

Cheers!
VA

- --
Q&A  — [2008-02-27]
Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana!
Using The Bat! 4.0.14.7 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 2.

»The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing
that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot
possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to
get at or repair.« — Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001), »Mostly Harmless«






 Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?

[Volker Ahrendt]

[Reply to: »Volker Ahrendt« · 2008-02-27 · 13:22 h (CET)]

>> thanks, reported in https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6866

> Maybe it is a good idea to implement Socks Server Support in The Bat!
> itself like in Mozilla Thunderbird:

> Under Options|Network & Administration -> Tab "Network"

> [x] Use Socks Server
> SOCKS host: [  ] Port: [ ]

> Direct connections to: [ ]

> Is it worth it to file a Wish?

Done: 

Cheers!
VA

- --
Q&A  — [2008-02-27]
Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana!
Using The Bat! 4.0.14.7 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 2.

»You live and learn. At any rate, you live.«

Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)






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Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?

[Volker Ahrendt]

[Reply to: »Marek Mikus« · 2008-02-26 · 21:39 h (CET)]

Moin, Marek!

>> Until now I thought it was an internal problem in my company, but
>> now I am sure The Bat! is the root cause of the socks server
>> problem.

> thanks, reported in https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6866

Maybe it is a good idea to implement Socks Server Support in The Bat!
itself like in Mozilla Thunderbird:

Under Options|Network & Administration -> Tab "Network"

[x] Use Socks Server
SOCKS host: [  ] Port: [ ]

Direct connections to: [ ]

Is it worth it to file a Wish?

Cheers!
VA

- --
Q&A  — [2008-02-27]
Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana!
Using The Bat! 4.0.14.7 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 2.

»I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly
by.« — Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)






 Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Tuesday, February 26, 2008, Volker Ahrendt wrote:

> Confirmed!

> Just tested with …

> … 3.99.29 through SocksCap -> Okay!
> … 4.0.14.7 through SocksCap -> Server not found!

> Until now I thought it was an internal problem in my company, but now
> I am sure The Bat! is the root cause of the socks server problem.

thanks, reported in https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6866

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 4.0.14.7
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
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Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?

[Volker Ahrendt]

[Reply to: »Marek Mikus« · 2008-02-25 · 11:47 h (CET)]

Moin!

> From user:
> Currently I am back on 3.99.29 through SocksCap, I confirm what I
> wrote: On the v4 copy (registered with my v3 license), launched
> through SocksCap, all connections are made DIRECTLY to the mail
> servers and do NOT go through SocksCap. I am using Win XP with SP2.

Confirmed!

Just tested with …

… 3.99.29 through SocksCap -> Okay!
… 4.0.14.7 through SocksCap -> Server not found!

Until now I thought it was an internal problem in my company, but now
I am sure The Bat! is the root cause of the socks server problem.

Cheers!
VA

- --
Q&A  — [2008-02-26]
Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana!
Using The Bat! 4.0.14.7 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 2.

»I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly
by.«

Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)






 Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap problem?

[Ivan Bolhovitinov]

Hi, Marek.


> anybody uses The Bat! 4.0 with SocksCap for connecting to server via
> Socks? One user reports in forum, he can't use it after upgrading to 4.0,
> maybe it is because rewritten socket support in 4.0.0.13, but nobody
> reported this yet as I remember.
I heard the same.
My tests were unsuccessfull. May be my OS is Vista, may be I did not configure Socks properly, may be my socks server is not good for this soft.
May be I must use special version for my OS and thebat version
I don't know.
:-(

For example about other software Opera cannot resolve names through my sockscaps. TheBat did not connect at all.





-- 
VBR,
 Ivan                          mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]





 Current beta is 4.0.14.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Keith Russell]

Thanks, Henk.

That explains why I couldn't find the messages on the list. :-)

--
Keith



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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Henk M. de Bruijn]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, at 21:02:29 [GMT -0700] (which was 5:02 where I
live) Keith Russell wrote:

> Can you post what appeared in these two messages? I don't seem to be
> able to find either

http://www.ritlabs.com/

--
Henk M. de Bruijn
_
The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Keith Russell]

Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

I asked this on October 18th. What a pity that next to the news about
update policy of 11/7/2007 and the license policy of 11/19/2207 there
is no communication with tbbeta about what is next :-(
  
Can you post what appeared in these two messages? I don't seem to be 
able to find either


--
Keith



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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Wednesday, December 12, 2007, Ethan J. Mings wrote:

>> 3 RSS plugins exists already, even they are not perfect and there are some
>> limitations in Bat.

> Can you tell where I can find the RSS Plugins?

I am preparing info, please wait.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.29
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 12:01:52 PM, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

>> AFAIK version 4.0 will be able to download images to HTML messages.

> Will this be a Christmas version?

lets hope not, unless this list is now out of the loop and all the
beta testing goes on and has been transpiring somewhere else.

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
1201 W River Blvd Apt B108
Wichita KS 67203
316.303.9385  phone ahead to fax
dcorrin at fastmail.fm
Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.27.2 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2)



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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Mark Partous]

Hello MikeD,

Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 5:39:52 PM, you wrote:

M2> Well ... I have no idea what the sender =intended= it look like 
M2> I can only say that I (normally) don't see anything that looks
M2> "wrong".  Occasionally there will be a problem with the net and
M2> something won't come down, but that would be a problem no matter what
M2> you were using to display 

Or, I wasn't accurate enough describing the case, or you misunderstood me.
I'm talking about an html message with inline graphics, not a message with
links to graphics on a remote server. If you "click on the 'html icon' on
the left side attachment list" in such a case, besides the text, you get
nothing but little "red crosses".

If you receive a message in which "inline" and "remote" graphics (or text)
are combined, you won't be able to see the "total" correct message in TB!.

It's not often that one receives such a message, but it happens, and those
can be "genuine" (I mean written/sent without "evil" intentions) messages.

Some people seem to specialise in such a "style"...

-- 
Best Wishes,
Mark 
   
using 
The Bat! Version 3.99.29 
MyMacros 1.11a

zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 
Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (1 days 12:15:43) on
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 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Henk M. de Bruijn]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, at 19:01:52 [GMT +0100] (which was 19:01 where I
live) Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

> Will this be a Christmas version?

I meant Christmas edition...

--
Henk ;-)
_
The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2
AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.5
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Peter Fjelsten]

Marek,

On 11-12-2007 19:38, you wrote in :
> 3 RSS plugins exists already, even they are not perfect and there are
> some limitations in Bat.

Really? Do you have a link?

What are the limitations (assuming that these are not described at the
links you will hopefully send)?

-- 
 Best regards   
 Peter Fjelsten  
 3.99.3 Pro  MyGate, AVG 
 2 POP3, 14 IMAP (Courier) & 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 200K+ msgs. 
 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2   




 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Tuesday, December 11, 2007, Peter Fjelsten wrote:

> On 11-12-2007 13:23, you wrote in
> :
>> RSS as a plug in for TheBat would be most helpful.

> Yes. Very.

3 RSS plugins exists already, even they are not perfect and there are some
limitations in Bat.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.29
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
2.7.1.5

Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM


 




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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Peter Fjelsten]

Ethan,

On 11-12-2007 13:23, you wrote in
:
> RSS as a plug in for TheBat would be most helpful.

Yes. Very.

-- 
 Best regards   
 Peter Fjelsten  
 3.99.3 Pro  MyGate, AVG 
 2 POP3, 14 IMAP (Courier) & 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 200K+ msgs. 
 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2   




 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Henk M. de Bruijn]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, at 14:11:12 [GMT +0100] (which was 14:11 where I
live) Marek Mikus wrote:

Hello Marek,

...<*snipped*>

> AFAIK version 4.0 will be able to download images to HTML messages.

Will this be a Christmas version?

--
Henk ;-)
_
The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2
AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.5
Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Jens,

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:49:46 +0100 GMT (11/12/2007, 16:49 +0700 GMT),
Jens Franik wrote:

>> Agreed. The suggestion is to allow this permission. It is not possible
>> now.

JF> Maybe it would be a idea to make detailed Permission, for Example from
JF> the (E-Mail)Senders Domain only...
JF> Or a List, which concats Sender-E-Mails with allowed Link-Domains.

Yes, a "white-list" option for downloading pictures is somewhere in
the wish list.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

I got into the gene pool while the lifeguard wasn't watching.
http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/

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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello MikeD,

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:34:13 -0500 GMT (11/12/2007, 19:34 +0700 GMT),
MikeD (2) wrote:

M2> I would rather that TB =not= get bogged down with all the bloat (and
M2> the cost in terms of development hours) needed to implement a fully
M2> functional HTML editor ... especially when there are plenty of them
M2> available already.

OK, a plugin to a good HTML editor would work for me too.

M2> When I have to include HTML, I use the HTML editor I already own,
M2> have installed and already **know how to use efficiently** to
M2> develop the content, then cut & paste that into TB.

No, I wouldn't want this. I just need to create standard HTML replies.

M2> OK ... I have stated my case and will stop now 

That's OK... I have also stated my case, and it is up to the
developers to decide whether they want to move with the times or stay
in the last century.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Nordamerika besteht aus lauter kleinen und grossen Inseln, von denen
jedoch die wenigsten von Wasser umflossen sind.
http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/

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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Jens Franik]

Guten Tag MikeD (2),

am Dienstag, 11. Dezember 2007 um 13:33 schrieben Sie:

> OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side
> attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by
> Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion?

That's exactly the same, i do, if i get such Mails (which i _want_ to
read...).

But they want it _inside_ The_Bat! - maybe even as an
Internet-Explorer Plugin - whicht probably is the easiest Way, because
the Control APIs are already here for Plugin-Support.

Maybe i was misunderstood, i don't either need this, but if so - i'd
vote for a _good_ solution.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Jens Franik
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Mark Partous]

Hello MikeD,

Tuesday, December 11, 2007, 1:33:58 PM, you wrote:

M2> OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side
M2> attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by
M2> Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion?

Now, do that with an html-message in which the graphics are sent along with
the message.

Does it look as intended by the sender?

What if, f.i., you wanted to make a pdf of such a message?

-- 
Best Wishes,
Mark 
   
using 
The Bat! Version 3.99.29 
MyMacros 1.11a

zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 
Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (1 days 5:38:21) on
Uno AMD Duron




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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Tuesday, December 11, 2007, Gunivortus Goos wrote:

>> OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side
>> attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by
>> Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion?

> That's exactly what I don't want.
> If TB is able to read and write in HTML mode, it should be
> able to do that itself, without relaying on some browser.

> If the HTML options weren't in TB and weren't developed
> further, I were already away from TB.
> So, if, as told, HTML will becvome much better in version 4,
> I'll be very happy with it.

AFAIK version 4.0 will be able to download images to HTML messages.

For next version in 4.x serie, HTML templates are planned.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.29
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
2.7.1.5

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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Gunivortus Goos]

Hi MikeD (2),

> OK ... All I do is click on the 'html icon' on the left side
> attachment list and ... glorisoki, my HTML content is rendered by
> Firefox. No muss no fuss. What am I missing in this discussion?

That's exactly what I don't want.
If TB is able to read and write in HTML mode, it should be
able to do that itself, without relaying on some browser.

If the HTML options weren't in TB and weren't developed
further, I were already away from TB.
So, if, as told, HTML will becvome much better in version 4,
I'll be very happy with it.

-- 
Regards,
Gunivortus



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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Jens Franik]

Guten Tag Thomas Fernandez,

am Montag, 10. Dezember 2007 um 14:50 schrieben Sie:

JF>> Any Content, which is not included in the Mail(s) has not to be
JF>> displayed until i give explicitly permission to access the
JF>> Internet for this.

> Agreed. The suggestion is to allow this permission. It is not possible
> now.

Maybe it would be a idea to make detailed Permission, for Example from
the (E-Mail)Senders Domain only...
Or a List, which concats Sender-E-Mails with allowed Link-Domains.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Jens Franik
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Gunivortus,

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:56:51 +0100 GMT (10/12/2007, 20:56 +0700 GMT),
Gunivortus Goos wrote:

GG> I'm one of them who is getting dayly several newsletters,
GG> and e-papers by abonnement and weekly several e-zines. For
GG> all of them I need full html display, including pictures.
GG> So I'm eagerly waiting for TB 4, which should make it
GG> not nessesary anymore to use IncrediMail anymore. :-)

Come on! While I also receive newsletters I want to see *with*
pictures, there is no need to use Incredimail! Eudora, Outlook, a
myriad of email clients can do this. Are you pulling our legs? ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

A boiled egg in the morning is hard to beat.
http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/

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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Jens,

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:36:39 +0100 GMT (10/12/2007, 20:36 +0700 GMT),
Jens Franik wrote:

JF> I'd neither have an HTML View as Default or Unchangable Setting.

This won't happen. HTML view will always be an option, with plaintext
preffered by many.

JF> Any Content, which is not included in the Mail(s) has not to be
JF> displayed until i give explicitly permission to access the
JF> Internet for this.

Agreed. The suggestion is to allow this permission. It is not possible
now.

Another wish (this seems to have gotten lost while the thread
progressed) is a real HTML editor, for those who want to use it. I
have situations in the office were I need to reply to HTML mail in
HTML, keeping the format (tables or colours), and maybe add some
pictures in the middle. I am ridiculed in the office because my email
client can't do what is standard on many others.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Compaq is considering changing the command "Press Any Key" to "Press
Return Key" because of the flood of calls asking where the "Any" key
is.
http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/

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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Jens Franik]

Guten Tag MikeD (2),

am Montag, 10. Dezember 2007 um 12:55 schrieben Sie:

>>> What normal user expect is:
>>> 1. HTML templates
>>> 2. HTML pictures

MS>> Yes, that is important. More and more newsletters are not readable
MS>> without showing the pcitures.

> And that drives me nuts   I am quite happy with the text only
> view as the default and hope that does not go away ... at least as an
> option!

I'd neither have an HTML View as Default or Unchangable Setting.
Any Content, which is not included in the Mail(s) has not to be
displayed until i give explicitly permission to access the Internet
for this.

I like the Default Behavior of TBat! which is not displaying Pictures
and Contents which are linked to the Web (even though i have a DSL
Flat Connetion with sufficient big bandwith).

>>> 3. Account like in OE (example: one  Incoming  folder for couple Accounts)

MS>> No go. If it is optional I don't mind.
MS>> If you really do want that then make a gerneric incoming folder and
MS>> define a filtering rule.

Full ACK

> You can have either 'action' with either system.  A single "in box"
> folder is easy enough to set up in TB.  But it is almost as easy to do
> the opposite with IE (and just about any other client that has filters
> )

ACK too :-)


With the Rest i didn't see any important missing features :-)
Maybe RSS would be "nice to have".

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Jens Franik
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Eddie Castelli]

Dear Bob,

   -->> Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2007, 18:57:47:


>> This is just my opinion, but it does seem to me that there is here
>> a lot of ill will towards Rit, and anger with having to deal with
>> the brokenness that will appear in betas.

> I agree that the Beta list has taken on an unproductive and I think
> unnecessarily negative tone lately. Let's also try to look at all
> the development from RitLab's point of view - they have to be able
> to develop and market an improved product, and they don't have an
> infinite amount of time to deal with particular gripes from
> individuals on this list.

By agreeing on your post I just want to add to my previous comment
that my words should not diminish the positive development of the
product TB!. Nor want I in any way ignore the hard work of the RITlabs
Team. I am very much convinced of that product - honest!


-- 
   best regards   | Using The Bat! 3.95.6
www.EddieCastelli.com | on Windows 2000 5.0
   Eddie  | Build 2195 Service Pack 4
  on Tour | 



 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Eddie Castelli]

Dear Cees,

   -->> Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2007, 21:18:27:


> Sounds to me like some sort of awful mickeysoft bells and whistles
> program.
>  But then again maybe it won't be as bad as it all sounds.

But if a new Version shall be released, why is the TB!beta ML not
involved in giving their view? When I recall it from the previous
versions and years being on this list, more or less all major
development was discussed together with RITlabs on this list.


-- 
   best regards   | Using The Bat! 3.95.6
www.EddieCastelli.com | on Windows 2000 5.0
   Eddie  | Build 2195 Service Pack 4
  on Tour | 



 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Tuesday, December 4, 2007, 11:43:16 AM, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

> I asked this on October 18th. What a pity that next to the news
> about update policy of 11/7/2007 and the license policy of
> 11/19/2207 there is no communication with tbbeta about what is next
> :-(

I agree, but what we got was more than I expected. :-(

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
1201 W River Blvd Apt B108
Wichita KS 67203
316.303.9385  phone ahead to fax
dcorrin at fastmail.fm
Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.27.2 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2)



 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Henk M. de Bruijn]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, at 08:37:53 [GMT +0200] (which was 7:37 where I
live) Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

> What about a roadmap?

I asked this on October 18th. What a pity that next to the news about
update policy of 11/7/2007 and the license policy of 11/19/2207 there
is no communication with tbbeta about what is next :-(

--
Henk M. de Bruijn
_
The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2
AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.5
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 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Dwight Corrin]

On Saturday, November 10, 2007, 5:55:26 AM, Kertész Vilmos wrote:

 http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240
>>> I read that several times, and I'm still sure what it says.
>> Sure or not sure?
>> :-)

> Your v3 key will work with v4.0.x. New code will need for v4.1.x and
> above.

I meant not sure. And now I'm not only not sure I understand it, but
I'm also confused if that's what it means. Is that supposed to deflect
complaints about paying for those features before, or is it going to
be 4.1 before it is really a new version, or . . .

The mind numbs pondering the other possibilities.

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
1201 W River Blvd Apt B108
Wichita KS 67203
316.303.9385  phone ahead to fax
dcorrin at fastmail.fm
Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.29 on Windows Vista version 6,0 ()



 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Henk M. de Bruijn]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007, at 16:26:16 [GMT +0100] (which was 16:26 where I
live) Netvicious wrote:

> sooorry! I sent this message without reading the link.

Let's test!

-- 
Henk M. de Bruijn
__
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AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.1
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Henk M. de Bruijn]

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007, at 03:25:54 [GMT -0600] (which was 10:25 where I
live) Dwight Corrin wrote:

> On Friday, November 9, 2007, 11:31:15 PM, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

>> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240

> I read that several times, and I'm still sure what it says.

Sure or not sure?
:-)

-- 
Henk M. de Bruijn
__
The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2
AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.1
Thawte notary, CAcert assurer, GSWoT introducer
Gossamer Spider Web of Trust http://www.gswot.org
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 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Dwight Corrin]

On Friday, November 9, 2007, 11:31:15 PM, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

>> What about a roadmap?

> http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240

I read that several times, and I'm still sure what it says.

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
1201 W River Blvd Apt B108
Wichita KS 67203
316.303.9385  phone ahead to fax
dcorrin at fastmail.fm
Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.29 on Windows Vista version 6,0 ()



 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Henk M. de Bruijn]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, at 08:37:53 [GMT +0200] (which was 7:37 where I
live) Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

> What about a roadmap?

http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/news_detail.php?ID=2240

-- 
grtz,
Henk M.
__
The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.29 Pro on Windows XP SP2
AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.7.1.1
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 Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Henk M. de Bruijn]

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, at 15:21:01 [GMT +0200] (which was 15:21 where I
live) Marek Mikus wrote:

> Friday, October 12, 2007, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

>> What's the situation? Any bètatesting for this version or...

> yes, it will be, You must wait, work in progress  

What about a roadmap?

-- 
Henk M. de Bruijn
__
The Bat! E-Mail System version 3.99.25 Pro on Windows XP SP2
AntispamSniper for the Bat! 2.6.1.5

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 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Friday, October 12, 2007, 7:45:51 PM, Gleason Pace wrote:

> Interesting.  One of the things I positively didn't like about
> Mulberry was the necessity to delete messages twice.  If I delete
> it, I want it to be gone.  All gone.  POP users have survived a long
> time without needing to deleting messages twice, why does this
> become necessary for Imap users?

In TB!, the second deletion is when you compress the folder.

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
1201 W River Blvd Apt B108
Wichita KS 67203
316.303.9385  phone ahead to fax
dcorrin at fastmail.fm
Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.25 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2)



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Krzysztof Trybowski]

Hello Sebastian,
On Monday, October 15, 2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote:

> What is this:?
> "Nie  da  się - każde konto musi mieć swój własny zestaw standardowych
> folderów."

OK, true: each account has to have its own set of folders. But you can
just hide them, and forget them. This doesn't really influence the way
one can work with the programme. The solution is not technically
identical with what other programmes do. It is however workable from
the user's POV. I knot what, because I use that :).

>> And  you  end  up  with (...) 6 topics with virtually the same
>> content: "-How do I...? -RTFM". Sometimes better write more. Or give
>> an  exact  link not just "read the manual". Otherwise we can replace
>> all answers with "Google it!".

> Please  do  not judge people that help other users.

Oh, I'm not judging, I'm just roughly describing the content of the
topics you linked. Roughly, means not exactly. This comment of mine
was of more general nature.

> People that help maybe do not know this trick. You know - please
> write this, it is very important for many users. Help them but nor
> here.

Well, I consider this a challenge. Okay, I'll do some research and
write an article, why not. Up till now, I wasn't aware of the problem.

>>> So please support RITs and PSTB forum and only one time answer (you
>>> read, you know answer? you not answer - you are quite unhelpful?).
>> I'm not even registered there and I just saw those posts
> Rules  are  the some like you accepted with tb-l registration. You are
> registered tb-l user.

True. And it will remain so -- I don't like forums, so I'd rather
stick to ML.

>>> Topics  are  above.  There  is  no  possibility to have 5 different
>>> Accounts and one folder tree like in OE. You can only cheat but you
>>> newer hide 5 accounts. And this answer is in PSTB FAQ, you can find
>>> in forum and in tb-l.
>> You  can  hide the accounts in a tree. You need to use color groups.
>> Since  some  versions you can apply a color group to a folder. A new
>> tab will appear by the bottom of the account tree. Select it. Voila.
> And filters? And many Inboxes? You have read questions?
You just wrote a few mails ago, that you know how to "cheat"
that behavior using filters and common folders... Right?

 Perhaps  it would be better to instead just explain exactly how to
 set things up.
>>> Once again: there is no such possibility. Over.
>> But you still didn't explain what exactly is not possible :P.

> See posts dates and TB versions. See changelog and note date for:
> - virtual folders
> - folder tabs

Oh... You got me with forum topics -- perhaps by the time those posts
were sent, TB lacked the necessary functionality. But we are
discussing the case here and now, hence we're settling our claims on
the newest version.

It was yesterday when you wrote "it can't be done".

> And think about:
> -  options  for  global  inbox  and then when something arrive to this
> inbox filters sorting - extended and not manual
> - automatic account choosing by new message or answer
Can you give me more details on PM (and in Polish)?

> EOT
Sure, EOT. Thanks for having a nice and inspiring discussion ;).

Regards, KT

-- 
Krzysztof Trybowski
  Gadu-Gadu: 1458144 --- Skype: trybowski
  AQQ: 141062 --- ICQ: 4350719 --- gpg key-id: 0xC937B0F2

Using The Bat! 3.99.24 [reg] under Windows XP 5.1 build 2600.



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in night, Krzysztof wrote something like this:
 Tell me why this happen?
>>> I  suspect a quite a big number of reasons are involved. Frequency
>>> of releases being a lesser one. I'd roughly say:
> (...)
>> But this is RITs side. Normal user do not see this.
> You  asked  why  that  happened.  So I wrote about my ideas what the
> reasons  are.  Normal  users  see  results of the reasons above. The
> results are *NOT* things to cure. The reasons are.

But this results show why TB

>>> ...none  of  these  posts  contains a detailed question that could
>>> lead to a conclusion that it not true that "you can set everything
>>> so that it works exactly as in OE". Hence I re-state my assertion:
>>> I  believe  you  can set everything so that it works exactly as in
>>> OE.
>> hmmm  Belive  or  not  but  not  everything. Once again - see above
>> links.
> Once  again:  the above links do NOT give detailed information about
> what can't be set up. That's why I'm asking.

What is this:?
"Nie  da  się - każde konto musi mieć swój własny zestaw standardowych
folderów."

>>> Another  thing I notice after reading the articles you liked above
>>> is that people on that forum seem to be quite unhelpful.
>> When  you  activate  account, you must accept rules. One of rule is
>> that  you not ask about something that is in manual or you can find
>> in forum archive, tb-l archive and PSTB FAQ - use search option.
> And  you  end  up  with…  how many? 6 topics with virtually the same
> content: "-How do I...? -RTFM". Sometimes better write more. Or give
> an  exact  link not just "read the manual". Otherwise we can replace
> all answers with "Google it!".

Please  do  not judge people that help other users. You do not help on
this forum even one more time and have knowledge how to set TB like OE
up.  People  that help maybe do not know this trick. You know - please
write  this,  it  is  very important for many users. Help them but nor
here.

>>> Each  topic starts with a question if it was possible to set TB up
>>> in  an  OE-manner. The answers are short and there are just two of
>>> them. Either "no",
>> So please support RITs and PSTB forum and only one time answer (you
>> read, you know answer? you not answer - you are quite unhelpful?).
> I'm not even registered there and I just saw those posts

Rules  are  the some like you accepted with tb-l registration. You are
registered tb-l user.

>> Topics  are  above.  There  is  no  possibility to have 5 different
>> Accounts and one folder tree like in OE. You can only cheat but you
>> newer hide 5 accounts. And this answer is in PSTB FAQ, you can find
>> in forum and in tb-l.
> You  can  hide the accounts in a tree. You need to use color groups.
> Since  some  versions you can apply a color group to a folder. A new
> tab will appear by the bottom of the account tree. Select it. Voila.

And filters? And many Inboxes? You have read questions?

>>> Perhaps  it would be better to instead just explain exactly how to
>>> set things up.
>> Once again: there is no such possibility. Over.
> But you still didn't explain what exactly is not possible :P.

See posts dates and TB versions. See changelog and note date for:
- virtual folders
- folder tabs

And think about:
-  options  for  global  inbox  and then when something arrive to this
inbox filters sorting - extended and not manual
- automatic account choosing by new message or answer

EOT

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Saturday, October 13, 2007, 4:27:53 AM, Sebastian Murawski wrote:

> We  can  not  wait? Or RITs can not wait to add really big changes
> and then go to v4? Major version comes with major
> improvements/changes.

Christmas is coming

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
1201 W River Blvd Apt B108
Wichita KS 67203
316.303.9385  phone ahead to fax
dcorrin at fastmail.fm
Using IMAP with The Bat! 3.99.25 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2)



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Krzysztof Trybowski]

Hello Sebastian,
On Sunday, October 14, 2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote:
> Read fileforum comments. This is only example.

Ritlabs' fault is that they didn't draw a very thick line between
betas and release versions. Most of the too often releases are betas.
And it is perfectly valid to issue a beta as often as RITs want. Some
people just don't get that betas are not for everyone.

A different story is with versions being released and then quickly
replaced by another ones with quickfixes. This indicates that releases
were too soon, without proper testing. And that *is* a problem.

>>> Tell me why this happen?
>> I suspect a quite a big number of reasons are involved. Frequency of
>> releases being a lesser one. I'd roughly say:
(...)
> But  this  is  RITs side. Normal user do not see this.

You asked why that happened. So I wrote about my ideas what the
reasons are. Normal users see results of the reasons above. The
results are *NOT* things to cure. The reasons are.

>> ...none  of these posts contains a detailed question that could lead
>> to  a  conclusion  that  it not true that "you can set everything so
>> that it works exactly as in OE". Hence I re-state my assertion:
>> I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE.

> hmmm Belive or not but not everything. Once again - see above links.

Once again: the above links do NOT give detailed information about
what can't be set up. That's why I'm asking.

>> Another thing I notice after reading the articles you liked above is
>> that  people  on  that  forum seem to be quite unhelpful.

> When  you activate account, you must accept rules. One of rule is that
> you not ask about something that is in manual or you can find in forum
> archive, tb-l archive and PSTB FAQ - use search option.

And you end up with... how many? 6 topics with virtually the same
content: "-How do I...?  -RTFM". Sometimes better write more. Or give
an exact link not just "read the manual". Otherwise we can replace
all answers with "Google it!". :P

But of course it is just my POV. The operator of a forum is allowed to
set whatever rules he wishes to.

>> Each topic starts with a question if it was possible to set TB up in
>> an  OE-manner. The answers are short and there are just two of them.
>> Either  "no",

> So  please  support  RITs and PSTB forum and only one time answer (you
> read,  you  know  answer?  you not answer - you are quite unhelpful?).

I'm not even registered there and I just saw those posts ;)

> Topics are above. There is no possibility to have 5 different Accounts
> and  one folder tree like in OE. You can only cheat but you newer hide
> 5  accounts. And this answer is in PSTB FAQ, you can find in forum and
> in tb-l.

You can hide the accounts in a tree. You need to use color groups.
Since some versions you can apply a color group to a folder. A new tab
will appear by the bottom of the account tree. Select it. Voila. :)

>> Perhaps  it  would  be better to instead just explain exactly how to
>> set things up.

> Once again: there is no such possibility. Over.
But you still didn't explain what exactly is not possible :P.

-- 
Krzysztof Trybowski
  Gadu-Gadu: 1458144 --- Skype: trybowski
  AQQ: 141062 --- ICQ: 4350719 --- gpg key-id: 0xC937B0F2

Using The Bat! 3.99.24 [reg] under Windows XP 5.1 build 2600.



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in evening, Krzysztof wrote something like this:
>> And this small steps bring us to point:
>> 1. There is no new plugins and old are not developed   
>> 2. Big  discussion  lists  and  forums,  sites  slowly dying (tb-l,
>>bat-mail.de.vu,  PSTB,  TheBat!  World)  -  no new users, no new
>>posts, no new news.
> What's  the  connection  between  making  new releases often and the
> above points?

Read fileforum comments. This is only example.

>> Tell me why this happen?
> I suspect a quite a big number of reasons are involved. Frequency of
> releases being a lesser one. I'd roughly say:
>   -  -  company's  management  being  inefficient (this includes PR,
>  community cooperation, project management).
>   -  -  quality  management  being  down  (lack  of  proper testing,
>  leading to a programme being somewhat "uneven" -- some versions
>  are stabile, while other are beta-quality.
>   -  -  unclear  rules  of setting future goals, unrevealed roadmaps
>  (which  brings me the suspicion of non-existent roadmaps), lack
>  of  official  wishlist  with  some  sort  of enduser preference
>  checking.
>   -  - lack of vision

But  this  is  RITs side. Normal user do not see this. See product and
history. You write about next level.

 Yes,  I  know how to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE
 style.
>>> I  believe  you  can set everything so that it works exactly as in
>>> OE.
>> No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts:
> Can  you  tell exactly which parts of OE style can't be set up in TB
> using currently existing features? I find it unclear, since...
>> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1246
>> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=934
>> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=169
>> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1053
>> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=377
>> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=35
> ...none  of these posts contains a detailed question that could lead
> to  a  conclusion  that  it not true that "you can set everything so
> that it works exactly as in OE". Hence I re-state my assertion:
> I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE.

hmmm Belive or not but not everything. Once again - see above links.

> You do this using filters, common folders, color groups. This is too
> complicated,  I  agree.  But  it  is  possible,  hence  the "engine"
> contains  all  the required functions. The only problem is on the UI
> side  --  there  should  exist an automated way to use the currently
> existing  functions  in  order  to allow inexperienced users benefit
> from  those  functions.  This may of course come beyond the task "UI
> rework" as defined by RITLabs for v4, but we don't know that.

> Another thing I notice after reading the articles you liked above is
> that  people  on  that  forum seem to be quite unhelpful.

When  you activate account, you must accept rules. One of rule is that
you not ask about something that is in manual or you can find in forum
archive, tb-l archive and PSTB FAQ - use search option.

> Each topic starts with a question if it was possible to set TB up in
> an  OE-manner. The answers are short and there are just two of them.
> Either  "no",

So  please  support  RITs and PSTB forum and only one time answer (you
read,  you  know  answer?  you not answer - you are quite unhelpful?).
Topics are above. There is no possibility to have 5 different Accounts
and  one folder tree like in OE. You can only cheat but you newer hide
5  accounts. And this answer is in PSTB FAQ, you can find in forum and
in tb-l.

> Perhaps  it  would  be better to instead just explain exactly how to
> set things up.

Once again: there is no such possibility. Over.

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Krzysztof Trybowski]

Hello Sebastian,
On Sunday, October 14, 2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote:
>> I think you miss the point of what UI is. The way you think about it
>> seems  to rather remind skins than GUI rework. The the truth is that
>> GUI  is  not  about the way TB looks, but about the way TB interacts
>> with  users.  For quite a time I claim that GUI needs to be reworked
>> heavily.  There are many advanced features available in TB, but they
>> are hard to use or at least they're not intuitive. Changing this and
>> ensuring  that  more  users  will  be  able to use the features that
>> already exist is a very valid thing to do.

> But  this  is  still  old  TB with only little improvements. Engine is
> still the some.

Define "engine". How does "engine" differ from "feature set"?
Why do you claim "engine" is bad? Unless you have access to TB!
internals, you can't tell. You can only judge by bugs in features --
which surely exist.

But this doesn't mean, that reworking the UI means "little progress".
Of course it depends on how it will be done, and we really don't know
that.

But if the UI rework is done right, the progress will be very
remarkable! New UI could make us able to use currently existing
features, that are now a pain to use (quite a few of them). Hence, the
new UI has a significance of all such features, even if they already
exist.

And one more thing -- the UI hasn't been reworked since the very
beginning. There were just some small VISUAL enhancements by ver 3.5.
New icons I don't count at all -- that's skinning and has nothing to
do with UI improvements. It's really high time for UI rework!

This is as far as UI rework is concerned. BUT...
in general I agree that many features need to be improved and
introduced. Whether the progress will justify paying for the licence
again is yet to be seen.

> And this small steps bring us to point:
> 1. There is no new plugins and old are not developed
> 2. Big   discussion  lists  and  forums,  sites  slowly  dying  (tb-l,
>bat-mail.de.vu,  pstb, TheBat! World) - no new users, no new posts,
>no new news.

What's the connection between making new releases often and the above
points?

> Tell me why this happen?

I suspect a quite a big number of reasons are involved. Frequency of
releases being a lesser one. I'd roughly say:
  -- company's management being inefficient (this includes PR,
 community cooperation, project management).
  -- quality management being down (lack of proper testing, leading to
 a programme being somewhat "uneven" -- some versions are stabile,
 while other are beta-quality.
  -- unclear rules of setting future goals, unrevealed roadmaps (which
 brings me the suspicion of non-existent roadmaps), lack of
 official wishlist with some sort of enduser preference checking.
  -- lack of vision

But I look forward to v4. This may be a new era if only bigger
pressure is put on quality.
  
> 3. Account  like  in  OE (example: one Incoming folder for couple
>Accounts)

>>> Yes,  I  know  how  to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE
>>> style.
>> I  believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE.
> No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts:

Can you tell exactly which parts of OE style can't be set up in TB
using currently existing features? I find it unclear, since...

> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1246
> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=934
> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=169
> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1053
> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=377
> http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=35

...none of these posts contains a detailed question that could lead to
a conclusion that it not true that "you can set everything so that it
works exactly as in OE". Hence I re-state my assertion:

I  believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE.

You do this using filters, common folders, color groups. This is too
complicated, I agree. But it is possible, hence the "engine" contains
all the required functions. The only problem is on the UI side --
there should exist an automated way to use the currently existing
functions in order to allow inexperienced users benefit from those
functions. This may of course come beyond the task "UI rework" as
defined by RITLabs for v4, but we don't know that.

Another thing I notice after reading the articles you liked above is
that people on that forum seem to be quite unhelpful. Each topic
starts with a question if it was possible to set TB up in an
OE-manner. The answers are short and there are just two of them.
Either "no", or "yes, using filters, and common folders, but it's not
the right place to write more, look into manual". Perhaps it would be
better to instead just explain exactly how to set things up.

Regards, KT

-- 
Krzysztof Trybowski
  Gadu-Gadu: 1458144 --- Skype: trybowski
  AQQ: 141062 --- ICQ: 4350719 --- gpg key-id: 0xC937B0F2

Using The Bat! 3.99.24 [reg] under W

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in evening, Gleason wrote something like this:
>> And this small steps bring us to point:
>> 1. There is no new plugins and old are not developed   
>> 2. Big  discussion  lists  and  forums,  sites  slowly dying (tb-l,
>>bat-mail.de.vu,  PSTB,  TheBat!  World)  -  no new users, no new
>>posts, no new news.
>> Tell me why this happen?
> A  subject that has had some discussion in other email client lists.
> The  most  important problem for all clients, I think, is that young
> people  mostly  prefer  webmail.  No setup, and if it isn't working,
> somebody else will fix it real soon.
> In my case, I recently had the example of a friend of a friend whose
> son  set  her  up with Hotmail as an introduction to using email. No
> amount  of  explaining advantages could convince her to do more than
> that.  Just  be  simple  and  work  please,  and  since I don't know
> anything about anything, let my son get it going for me.

But  this  is not only new users or young people problem but also old?
Why old useres for example changing TB for Tbird?

>>> I  believe  you  can set everything so that it works exactly as in
>>> OE.
>> No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts:
> Oh, Lord, why would anybody want another email client that acts like
> OE?  If  that  is  what  you  want,

When  you  read  this topics on forum my nick is lazik - you will know
that  this  is not my request and you will know why I not recommend OE
like  setup.  I  only  want  to say that new users that changing email
client want OE like interface. That is all.

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Peter Fjelsten]

Vilius,

On 13-10-2007 12:12, you wrote in :
> And by the way I'm using Office 2007 and Outlook Express at work at
> the moment and as a long time IMAP user (like 7 years), I still think
> that their IMAP is superior (I'm not talking about other their stuff
> though).

I agree, .

I hate the other missing features in Outlook 2007 but it handles IMAP
way better than TB ever did.

-- 
 Best regards   
 Peter Fjelsten  
 3.99.3 Pro  MyGate, AVG 
 2 POP3, 14 IMAP (Courier) & 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 200K+ msgs. 
 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2   




 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday,  and  that  was  in afternoon, Krzysztof wrote something like
this:
 So
 1. GUI - like in v3 upgrade   
>>> afaik  we can expect huge change in V4, nothing small as themes in
>>> V3
>> OK,  but  this  is  still  only GUI - maybe big changes but this is
>> still cosmetic thing for me. TB will look nicer.
> I think you miss the point of what UI is. The way you think about it
> seems  to rather remind skins than GUI rework. The the truth is that
> GUI  is  not  about the way TB looks, but about the way TB interacts
> with  users.  For quite a time I claim that GUI needs to be reworked
> heavily.  There are many advanced features available in TB, but they
> are hard to use or at least they're not intuitive. Changing this and
> ensuring  that  more  users  will  be  able to use the features that
> already exist is a very valid thing to do.

But  this  is  still  old  TB with only little improvements. Engine is
still the some.

 2. Account wizard - it works now? .dsi files hmmm …   
> It's a nice feature for newcomers. This is something that could make
> at  least  some people switch from webmails to "proper" way of using
> email. Therefore I support it.

I  also  support  this  feature,  but  this  is not feature that is so
important  that  we  must  change TB version or buy license update.

 2. HTML pictures   
>>> I hope we will see it in 4.0 already.
>> Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4?
> I  think  this is a question of how long beta cycle we wish to have.
> RITs  could  introduce  4.0  betas and make a release 1,5 year later
> with  all the features ready. Or they could divide it into parts and
> make 3 or 4 releases in between.
> Of course the licensing policy comes in way -- with more releases on
> a  way,  users  will have to pay earlier for things that are to come
> later.  In  an  opposite  situation  users will have to wait for new
> features  till  the  day  when  all  of them are ready (all "planned
> features" that is).
> Both  ways  have  advantages  and  disadvantages.  I  prefer the way
> currently  chosen,  for I strongly suspect I will buy v4 eventually,
> so I'd prefer to do that sooner rather than later.

And this small steps bring us to point:
1. There is no new plugins and old are not developed
2. Big   discussion  lists  and  forums,  sites  slowly  dying  (tb-l,
   bat-mail.de.vu,  pstb, TheBat! World) - no new users, no new posts,
   no new news.

Tell me why this happen?

 3. Account  like  in  OE (example: one Incoming folder for couple
Accounts)
>>> nice, but I do not expect this. And You can use common filters, do
>>> not You?
>> Yes,  I  know  how  to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE
>> style.
> I  believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE.

No. When you know how to do that please answer for this posts:
http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1246
http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=934
http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=169
http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1053
http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=377
http://thebat.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=35

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in afternoon, Marek wrote something like this:
>> And something about RIT updates:
>> http://fileforum.betanews.com/review/942557075/2/view
> do  You  really trust fileforum comments? some of users who rated it
> with one star did not saw thebat yet...

And   many   that   write  posts  saying  true.  Rating  is not for me
important.

>> You  can  read  about  this  in interview with Stefan Tanurkov - 10
>> January 2000
> Yes,  I  know  this  interview and there is nothing about it will be
> surely implemented and when.

OK,  so I will wait for plugin or internal implementation. 7 years and
we do not have nothing. This is good example for HTM templates - " Max
confirmed me, HTML templates are in list of planned features for V4 in
2008".
LG> There  is  a  rumor  floating around that TB will include a usenet
LG> news reader. Is this true?
ST> I  think so. We still have not decided on what it will look like -
ST> as a plug-in or as a built-in function...

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in afternoon, Paul wrote something like this:
> In  your  own  words,  "But  this is not for normal users - it is to
> difficult, not ergonomic."

You  see  this  application  even  one  time?  Example:  is it for you
difficult  to  extract zip archive to folder and then run one bat file
and  after  this open thebat with other then thebat.exe file? Then you
can  try  usenet  and  use  (or even only setup) TheBat with Hamster -
maybe you see difference.

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Krzysztof Trybowski]

Hello Sebastian,
On Saturday, October 13, 2007 Sebastian Murawski wrote:
> Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

> Someday, and that was in evening, Marek wrote something like this:
>>> So
>>> 1. GUI - like in v3 upgrade   
>> afaik we can expect huge change in V4, nothing small as themes in V3

> OK,  but  this is still only GUI - maybe big changes but this is still
> cosmetic thing for me. TB will look nicer.

I think you miss the point of what UI is. The way you think about it
seems to rather remind skins than GUI rework. The the truth is that
GUI is not about the way TB looks, but about the way TB interacts with
users. For quite a time I claim that GUI needs to be reworked heavily.
There are many advanced features available in TB, but they are hard to
use or at least they're not intuitive. Changing this and ensuring that
more users will be able to use the features that already exist is a
very valid thing to do.

>>> 2. Account wizard - it works now? .dsi files hmmm …   

It's a nice feature for newcomers. This is something that could make
at least some people switch from webmails to "proper" way of using
email. Therefore I support it.

>>> What normal user expect is:
>>> 1. HTML templates   
>> afaik we can expect them next year in 4.x

However I agree with the idea, I strongly believe the first step would
be to have proper HTML viewer, since the current one is way off.

If anybody asked me, using a 3rd party viewer would ba a way to go.

>>> 2. HTML pictures
>> I hope we will see it in 4.0 already.

> Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4?

I think this is a question of how long beta cycle we wish to have.
RITs could introduce 4.0 betas and make a release 1,5 year later with
all the features ready. Or they could divide it into parts and make 3
or 4 releases in between.

Of course the licensing policy comes in way -- with more releases on a
way, users will have to pay earlier for things that are to come later.
In an opposite situation users will have to wait for new features till
the day when all of them are ready (all "planned features" that is).

Both ways have advantages and disadvantages. I prefer the way
currently chosen, for I strongly suspect I will buy v4 eventually, so
I'd prefer to do that sooner rather than later.

>>> 3. Account  like  in  OE  (example:  one Incoming folder for couple
>>>Accounts)
>> nice,  but  I do not expect this. And You can use common filters, do
>> not You?

> Yes, I know how to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE style.

I believe you can set everything so that it works exactly as in OE. It
takes some work though. Sure this could be automated.

> We  can  not  wait? Or RITs can not wait to add really big changes and
> then go to v4? Major version comes with major improvements/changes.

If you look at TB!'s history you'll see that progress is continuous
and made in small steps. Only big companies can afford to make one big
release every two-three years. I prefer to have a constant flow of new
releases for this makes it possible for me to influence the
development by stating my opinions.

>>> 8. Linux version
>> I  do  not  think, we will ever see The Bat! under Linux, if will be
>> developed in Delphi. And really do not think, You can do business in
>> this  platform,  nobody wants to pay for apps, because everything is
>> free.

I believe there's no need to rewrite the program's code. Just use
WINE. There used to exist commercial programs released for Linux using
WINE and they were fine. Nowadays, when computers are faster and
faster, the question of having additional "layer" between the program
and an OS is not any more a big issue -- nobody measures program's
speed with a stopper.

It would be enough to test TB under WINE and this way support Linux
users. If a certain feature can't be supported, TB should degrade
nicely so that users still can do their basic work.

> BTW  I paid for v2 and v3. Now I will consider to buy v4 in one polish
> newspaper  (Komputer  Swiat)  that  offers  TB  full  license (without
> update)   for   2,5   Euro.   List   with   full  versions  are  here:
> http://www.ks-ekspert.pl/archiwum/info/pne/index.html

Well, this is why a licensed copy is distributed through that
magazine. You are absolutely allowed to use that version, so what's
your point?

For sure this policy gives profits to RITlabs, since otherwise they
wouldn't continue the cooperation with KS.

Regards,
KT

-- 
Krzysztof Trybowski
  Gadu-Gadu: 1458144 --- Skype: trybowski
  AQQ: 141062 --- ICQ: 4350719 --- gpg key-id: 0xC937B0F2

Using The Bat! 3.99.24 [reg] under Windows XP 5.1 build 2600.



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Vilius Šumskas]

>> Ritlabs just don't get it. Users that use MAPI or IMAP
>> does filtering ON THE SERVER.

> Server sieves (as Mulberry calls them) are limited compared to what a
> client can do, and TB does.

It depends on the server you are using. For example Cyrus Sieve
filtering system is as advanced as TB! if not more. You can filter by
virtually any factor of the message (From:, Subject:, X-Spam: headers,
body etc.) also you can match strings with regexps and tell what
server should do with them (discard, move to folder, copy to folder,
etc.). You can even rewrite parts of the message.

-- 
Best regards,
 Vilius



 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Arjan de Groot]

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:22:24 +0300, Vilius Šumskas wrote:

>> I beg to differ. Having a message base reside on a server is exactly
>> what needs to be avoided. The message base that resides in encrypted
>> form on the flash drive in my pocket is under my control. I will need
>> to be killed for someone to have access to it. I will not be killed
>> because someone hacked a server to find me or find a "reason" to kill
>> me.

>> IMAP is exactly what I do _not_ want!

>OK. Let me put it this way.

>It doesn't matter what are you using POP3 or IMAP4. If your mail
>server is breached then message base is compromised anyway. []

I might add that imo carrying sensitive information around in a
hostile environment is always riskier than keeping it in the
relative safety of a server. If you get caught by "unfriendly
forces" a little bit of "applied pressure" may all be all that's 
needed to reveal the hidden secrets of your flash drive.


Arjan


 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Vilius Šumskas]

> I beg to differ. Having a message base reside on a server is exactly
> what needs to be avoided. The message base that resides in encrypted
> form on the flash drive in my pocket is under my control. I will need
> to be killed for someone to have access to it. I will not be killed
> because someone hacked a server to find me or find a "reason" to kill
> me.

> IMAP is exactly what I do _not_ want!

OK. Let me put it this way.

It doesn't matter what are you using POP3 or IMAP4. If your mail
server is breached then message base is compromised anyway. Moreover
messages can be intercepted before it even reaches your server. So
that's why you should be using PGP/SMIME if your life depends on what
you send. If you are using PGP or SMIME your messages are safe
on a server also independetly what you are using POP3 or IMAP4. And if
you don't trust PGP/SMIME encryption and are working for "secret
government" and you chose such unsecure collaboration method as email,
you should be using your goverments email server which is
behind triple firewall with double encrypted internet connection on
constantly monitored :)

I hope this answers every aspect that you can come up with.

-- 
Best regards,
 Vilius



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Vilius Šumskas]

Sveiki,

> I beg to differ. Having a message base reside on a server is exactly
> what needs to be avoided. The message base that resides in encrypted
> form on the flash drive in my pocket is under my control. I will need
> to be killed for someone to have access to it. I will not be killed
> because someone hacked a server to find me or find a "reason" to kill
> me.

> IMAP is exactly what I do _not_ want!

Oh please, don't be so into "secret service". I work with
journalists, people from EU commission and UN and none of them are as paranoid
as you are.

-- 
Best regards,
 Vilius



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Sunday, October 14, 2007, Sebastian Murawski wrote:

> And in v4 we have plans for:
> - improved Unicode support
> - new GUI = new customiser, message list pane?

> [+] First usable new filtering system
> this feature is from TB 2.13 "Lucky" Beta1

yes, this was 3.0 beta cycle, but for betatesters it was started as 2.13
with using old reg codes.

> And something about RIT updates:
> http://fileforum.betanews.com/review/942557075/2/view

do You really trust fileforum comments? some of users who rated it with one
star did not saw thebat yet...

> You can read about this in interview with Stefan Tanurkov - 10 January
> 2000

Yes, I know this interview and there is nothing about it will be
surely implemented and when.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.24
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
2.6.1.5

Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM


 




 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Vilius Šumskas]

Sveiki,

> 10/14/2007  5:59 AM

> Hi Vilius,

> On 10/14/2007 Vilius �umskas wrote:

V�>> We've got new filtering system and a native XP look during v2.x beta 
cycle. Why rewrite it
V�>> a third time? Ritlabs just don't get it. Users that use MAPI or IMAP
V�>> does filtering ON THE SERVER. And they use IMAP's folder
V�>> syncronization. That's they even doesn't need Voyager. Let's face it: TB!
V�>> is long time pop3 client and it is still is. Most TB! features is for
V�>> POP3 users (filters, antivirus/spam plugins, posibility to have it on
V�>> the USB stick, etc.). For people that just want a working
V�>> email client with their business inboxes it is not that atractive
V�>> option anymore.

> You are entitled to speak for yourself. Now do something for yourself
> and go use a program that focuses on your specific needs instead of
> crying about one that doesn't. Voyager has been a literal life saver
> for me and many customers who are in parts of the world where it is
> mandatory to have one's email literally in their pocket to avoid
> persecution and possible death.

I think you don't understand IMAP concept very well. It was created
exactly for that kind of situations. You can access your emails in ANY PART of 
the
world from one central place (e.g. the server). And you can do this
without connecting to the internet because message base is cached on
EVERY CLIENT you are using. Moreover if you don't have _your_ laptop
around, most organizations had implemented webmail access for this. I hope you
heard of such things as IMP, Zimbra or Outlook Web Access.

By the way I don't use TB! for production nor at home nor at the
office anymore and never looked back. I have one copy on my test machine
though. And I'm not crying, I want to express my opinion on the things
that's going on at Ritlabs for couple of last years. If there will be
no viable bug fixes when 4.0 goes Gold I think I will leave TB! completely.

-- 
Best regards,
 Vilius



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in afternoon, Paul wrote something like this:
> Voyager  has been a literal life saver for me and many customers who
> are  in parts of the world where it is mandatory to have one's email
> literally in their pocket to avoid persecution and possible death.

DynBat,  MobileBat,  TheBatch or JavaScript Mobilbat - that was before
Voyager  and  works with full TheBat Pro version. Voyager is only Home
version with OTFE password protection.

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in night, Marek wrote something like this:
 When  version  change  and  you  must pay for new licence? Yes, I
 expect  really  big  changes  and  privately  one  little  bugfix
 (regression fix)
 -  https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690.   
>>> did  You  paid  for  upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1, from 3.0.1 to 3.5,
>>> from 3. 5 from 3.7 etc?
>> And  what  are  major  improvements,  new major features in this v3
>> builds? I remember one feature that now not exists.
> new  filtering  system, new customiser, rewritten message list pane,
> Unicode in many parts, Vista support etc.

And in v4 we have plans for:
- improved Unicode support
- new GUI = new customiser, message list pane?

[+] First usable new filtering system
this feature is from TB 2.13 "Lucky" Beta1

And something about RIT updates:
http://fileforum.betanews.com/review/942557075/2/view

> I  do  not  remember all, some things can be major for You, some for
> another,  for  example  downloading images to HTML is major for You,
> not for me - I like filtering system a lot...

HTML images are not so important for me. For newsletters I use this
http://konrad_sz.republika.pl/tb/htmlpics.htm
old version
http://konrad_sz.republika.pl/tb/htmlpics_old.htm
But this is not for normal users.

>>> V3 was developed more than 3 years and You paid once only. Why You
>>> expect, all things will be introduced in 4.0?
>> I  paid also for v2 and remember promise about newsgroup support. I
>> paid for this promise to.
> I  really  do not remember, RITLabs officialy promised this,

You can read about this in interview with Stefan Tanurkov - 10 January
2000

> are You really need this yet?

No,  I do not need. I work with local mail2news gateway - Hamster. For
me Scoring system (like in 40tude - with NFS this is very good feature
for  discussion  lists, emails, newsgroup gateways, antyspam ...) will
be   enough,  but for normal people that want to use newsgroups? Tbird
ore OE is answer?

Like  you  can  see, things that TB can not do I make with NFS, macros
or  gateways.  But  this is not for normal users - it is to difficult,
not ergonomic.

Here you have what other clients have:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients

In this comparison I create myself many thing about TB, new tables and
features.  There  is question: maybe it is better to answer about IMAP
in TB - 'Yes, works in 50%' or something like that? All questions with
answer - 'Yes, with plugin' after v4 will be No.

 Why  not  wait when this two things are ready and then give users
 v4?
>>> because  downloading images to HTML messages is much easier and is
>>> almost finished, templates affects more parts of program.
>> You  can  say  that for sure html templates will be available in v4
>> and this will be not next major version? Im not so sure.
> You  have  right, I do not know this for sure, but Max confirmed me,
> HTML templates are in list of planned features for V4 in 2008.

Like usenet support.

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in morning, Hans wrote something like this:
> I  am  a  registered user of The Bat! but also of Pocomail, try this
> program, has a lot of features, The Bat! does not have! Or try Mokum
> Mail,  http://www.blokker.net/whatsnew.htm  As  a  registered user I
> always use this very safe program

Thanks  for  advice, but there is no other email software that have so
superb  message  templates implementation. Maybe sometimes it is buggy
but with this all bugs is excellent.

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Vilius Šumskas]

Sveiki,

> Hello all,
> Sunday, October 14, 2007, Sebastian Murawski wrote:

 When version change and you must pay for new licence? Yes, I expect
 really big changes and privately one little bugfix (regression fix)
 - https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690.
>>> did  You paid for upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1, from 3.0.1 to 3.5, from
>>> 3.5  from  3.7  etc?

>> And what are major improvements, new major features in this v3 builds?
>> I remember one feature that now not exists.

> new filtering system, new customiser, rewritten message list pane,
> Unicode in many parts, Vista support etc.

We've got new filtering system and a native XP look during v2.x beta cycle. Why 
rewrite it
a third time? Ritlabs just don't get it. Users that use MAPI or IMAP
does filtering ON THE SERVER. And they use IMAP's folder
syncronization. That's they even doesn't need Voyager. Let's face it: TB!
is long time pop3 client and it is still is. Most TB! features is for
POP3 users (filters, antivirus/spam plugins, posibility to have it on
the USB stick, etc.). For people that just want a working
email client with their business inboxes it is not that atractive
option anymore.

-- 
Best regards,
 Vilius



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Hans Stam]

> Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!
>
> Someday, and that was in evening, Marek wrote something like this:
>
 do  You  really  expect  all  features in 4.0? Do You expect
 major changes between 3.99 and 4.00?

>>> When version change and you must pay for new licence? Yes, I
>>> expect really big changes and privately one little bugfix
>>> (regression fix) - https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690.
>>>
>> did  You paid for upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1, from 3.0.1 to 3.5,
>> from 3.5  from  3.7  etc?
>>
>
> And what are major improvements, new major features in this v3
> builds? I remember one feature that now not exists.
>
>> V3  was  developed more than 3 years and You paid once only. Why
>> You expect, all things will be introduced in 4.0?
>>
>
> I  paid  also  for  v2 and remember promise about newsgroup
> support. I paid for this promise to.
>
> What normal user expect is:
> 1. HTML templates
 afaik we can expect them next year in 4.x
> 2. HTML pictures
 I hope we will see it in 4.0 already.
>>> Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users
>>> v4?
>>>
>> because  downloading  images  to HTML messages is much easier and
>> is almost finished, templates affects more parts of program.
>>
>
> You  can  say that for sure html templates will be available in v4
> and this will be not next major version? Im not so sure.
>
> Maybe  you understand me wrong (I know my english is bad). When I
> know myself, I will buy TB even without major improvements,
> features in v4. I  only  want that RITs give me something more than
> cosmetic things. I want  macros that works, and not just are red or
> blue. I want features like smartspace that works with NFS filters
> that flags messages.
>
> 8. Linux version
 I  do not think, we will ever see The Bat! under Linux, if
 will be developed  in Delphi. And really do not think, You
 can do business in this platform, nobody wants to pay for
 apps, because everything is free.

>>> I  will  be  first  that  pay  for  The Bat when it will be on
>>> this platform.
>>>
>> OK,  how  much licences can be sold? thousand? ten thousand? This
>> is not  enough  to rewrite whole code, hire new developers and
>> have two development branches, hire new people for support etc.
>> etc.
>>
>
> Like  you can se below TB can cost less then 5 USD, so maybe this
> work is not so expensive?
>
>>> BTW  I  paid  for  v2  and v3. Now I will consider to buy v4 in
>>> one polish  newspaper  (Komputer  Swiat)  that  offers  TB full
>>> license (without  update)  for  2,5 Euro. List with full
>>> versions are here: http://www.ks-
>>> ekspert.pl/archiwum/info/pne/index.html
>>>
>> hmm, interesting, who subsidizes full price of licence?
>>
> Ask  RITLABS  or  Komputer  Swiat.  This  version you can order
> online (delivery  to all countries is possible) and use also in
> Czech - it is normal full licence only without updates.
 
I am a registered user of The Bat! but also of Pocomail, try this program, has a lot of features, The Bat! does not have!
Or try Mokum Mail, http://www.blokker.net/whatsnew.htm
As a registered user I always use this very safe program
 
Hans



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Sunday, October 14, 2007, Sebastian Murawski wrote:

>>> When version change and you must pay for new licence? Yes, I expect
>>> really big changes and privately one little bugfix (regression fix)
>>> - https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690.
>> did  You paid for upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1, from 3.0.1 to 3.5, from
>> 3.5  from  3.7  etc?

> And what are major improvements, new major features in this v3 builds?
> I remember one feature that now not exists.

new filtering system, new customiser, rewritten message list pane,
Unicode in many parts, Vista support etc.

I do not remember all, some things can be major for You, some for another,
for example downloading images to HTML is major for You, not for me - I
like filtering system a lot...

>> V3  was  developed more than 3 years and You paid once only. Why You
>> expect, all things will be introduced in 4.0?

> I  paid  also  for  v2 and remember promise about newsgroup support. I
> paid for this promise to.

I really do not remember, Ritlabs officialy promised this, are You really
need this yet?

> What normal user expect is:
> 1. HTML templates   
 afaik we can expect them next year in 4.x
> 2. HTML pictures
 I hope we will see it in 4.0 already.
>>> Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4?
>> because  downloading  images  to HTML messages is much easier and is
>> almost finished, templates affects more parts of program.

> You  can  say that for sure html templates will be available in v4 and
> this will be not next major version? Im not so sure.

You have right, I do not know this for sure, but Max confirmed me, HTML
templates are in list of planned features for V4 in 2008.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.24
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
2.6.1.5

Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM


 




 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in evening, Marek wrote something like this:
>>> do  You  really  expect  all  features in 4.0? Do You expect major
>>> changes between 3.99 and 4.00?
>> When version change and you must pay for new licence? Yes, I expect
>> really big changes and privately one little bugfix (regression fix)
>> - https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690.
> did  You paid for upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1, from 3.0.1 to 3.5, from
> 3.5  from  3.7  etc?

And what are major improvements, new major features in this v3 builds?
I remember one feature that now not exists.

> V3  was  developed more than 3 years and You paid once only. Why You
> expect, all things will be introduced in 4.0?

I  paid  also  for  v2 and remember promise about newsgroup support. I
paid for this promise to.

 What normal user expect is:
 1. HTML templates   
>>> afaik we can expect them next year in 4.x
 2. HTML pictures
>>> I hope we will see it in 4.0 already.
>> Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4?
> because  downloading  images  to HTML messages is much easier and is
> almost finished, templates affects more parts of program.

You  can  say that for sure html templates will be available in v4 and
this will be not next major version? Im not so sure.

Maybe  you understand me wrong (I know my english is bad). When I know
myself, I will buy TB even without major improvements, features in v4.
I  only  want that RITs give me something more than cosmetic things. I
want  macros that works, and not just are red or blue. I want features
like smartspace that works with NFS filters that flags messages.

 8. Linux version   
>>> I  do not think, we will ever see The Bat! under Linux, if will be
>>> developed  in Delphi. And really do not think, You can do business
>>> in this platform, nobody wants to pay for apps, because everything
>>> is free.
>> I  will  be  first  that  pay  for  The Bat when it will be on this
>> platform.
> OK,  how  much licences can be sold? thousand? ten thousand? This is
> not  enough  to rewrite whole code, hire new developers and have two
> development branches, hire new people for support etc. etc.

Like  you can se below TB can cost less then 5 USD, so maybe this work
is not so expensive?

>> BTW  I  paid  for  v2  and v3. Now I will consider to buy v4 in one
>> polish  newspaper  (Komputer  Swiat)  that  offers  TB full license
>> (without  update)  for  2,5 Euro. List with full versions are here:
>> http://www.ks-ekspert.pl/archiwum/info/pne/index.html
> hmm, interesting, who subsidizes full price of licence?

Ask  RITLABS  or  Komputer  Swiat.  This  version you can order online
(delivery  to all countries is possible) and use also in Czech - it is
normal full licence only without updates.

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Martin Sebald]

Hi Paul!

>>> Seems you have already found the answer to your problem.
>> Ritlabs, please add long promised and paid state of the art features
>> MOST mail client big players offer smootly to your planned state of the
>> art interface!
> I am confused, you said, "please add...state of the art features MOST
> mail client big players offer..." I do not understand why you are not
> using one of the big players if they are giving you what you are looking
> for. 

Because I like TheBat most of the time and for most of its features.

Also because I'm from the southern part of Germany, to be exactly I'm a
Swabian. Maybe you heard what is told about us: We look after our money and
what we paid we want to have.

-- 

Regards,
Martin

The Bat! v3.99.24 powered by Windows Server 2003 "R2" Standard Edition 5.2 
Build 3790 Service Pack 2

ConCarne cooks best since 1998
http://www.concarne.org


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Martin Sebald]

Hi Paul!

>> I don't get IMAP calls when they use other email clients.
> Seems you have already found the answer to your problem.

...which comes back to the bottom line of my post which started this
subthread:

Ritlabs, please add long promised and paid state of the art features MOST
mail client big players offer smootly to your planned state of the art
interface! 

Or let me say it different: Focus on long promised stuff instead of talking
to some kind of design bureau for a interface nobody here really needs.
See, people go mad the same way with e.g. IMAP issues with fancy interface
which shows the errors and a classic interface.

-- 

Regards,
Martin

The Bat! v3.99.24 powered by Windows Server 2003 "R2" Standard Edition 5.2 
Build 3790 Service Pack 2

ConCarne cooks best since 1998
http://www.concarne.org


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Saturday, October 13, 2007, Sebastian Murawski wrote:

>> do  You  really  expect  all  features  in  4.0? Do You expect major
>> changes between 3.99 and 4.00?

> When  version  change  and you must pay for new licence? Yes, I expect
> really  big changes and privately one little bugfix (regression fix) -
> https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690.

did You paid for upgrade from 3.0 to 3.0.1, from 3.0.1 to 3.5, from 3.5
from 3.7 etc? V3 was developed more than 3 years and You paid once only.
Why You expect, all things will be introduced in 4.0?

>>> What normal user expect is:
>>> 1. HTML templates   
>> afaik we can expect them next year in 4.x
>>> 2. HTML pictures
>> I hope we will see it in 4.0 already.

> Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4?

because downloading images to HTML messages is much easier and is almost
finished, templates affects more parts of program.

>>> 8. Linux version
>> I  do  not  think, we will ever see The Bat! under Linux, if will be
>> developed in Delphi. And really do not think, You can do business in
>> this  platform,  nobody wants to pay for apps, because everything is
>> free.

> I will be first that pay for The Bat when it will be on this platform.

OK, how much licences can be sold? thousand? ten thousand? This is not
enough to rewrite whole code, hire new developers and have two development
branches, hire new people for support etc. etc.

> BTW  I paid for v2 and v3. Now I will consider to buy v4 in one polish
> newspaper  (Komputer  Swiat)  that  offers  TB  full  license (without
> update)   for   2,5   Euro.   List   with   full  versions  are  here:
> http://www.ks-ekspert.pl/archiwum/info/pne/index.html

hmm, interesting, who subsidizes full price of licence?

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.24
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
2.6.1.5

Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM


 



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Vilius Šumskas]

Sveiki,

> Vilius,


>>> I guess I am going to have to disagree with that.  TB Imap is not
>>> perfect, but it is the pick of my list which includes:

>> Execuse me, but TB!'s IMAP is a crap. It's not even in alpha stage. In
>> fact I haven't seen worse IMAP implementation. My students at
>> university write better IMAP code in 4 to 6 weeks than Ritlabs did it
>> in 4 years.

> Interesting.  What I see is that every single Imap client out there is
> either incomplete (like Thunderbird) or has problems worse than TB.  I
> have heard from a well known email client programmer that this
> probably has something to do with the fact that the Imap specification
> is enormous.

Actually it's not. If you want to implement simple pure IMAP4 without
any extensions (such as sieve, ACL's, list extensions, etc.) you can
do it in couple of weeks. I already told you that _students_ does it
in 6.

And by the way I'm using Office 2007 and Outlook Express at work at
the moment and as a long time IMAP user (like 7 years), I still think
that their IMAP is superior (I'm not talking about other their stuff
though). Thunderbird is incomplete, but the
commands implemented there works like a sharm. I don't have to swich
through folders or clear the cache everytime I want to see the
message at least.

-- 
Best regards,
 Vilius



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in evening, Marek wrote something like this:
>> So
>> 1. GUI - like in v3 upgrade   
> afaik we can expect huge change in V4, nothing small as themes in V3

OK,  but  this is still only GUI - maybe big changes but this is still
cosmetic thing for me. TB will look nicer.

>> 2. Account wizard - it works now? .dsi files hmmm …   
>> 3. message labels   
>> For  me  nothing special. I forgot! I can add: gmail aka theba.net.
>> But still for me that is not major version.
> do  You  really  expect  all  features  in  4.0? Do You expect major
> changes between 3.99 and 4.00?

When  version  change  and you must pay for new licence? Yes, I expect
really  big changes and privately one little bugfix (regression fix) -
https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5690.

>> What normal user expect is:
>> 1. HTML templates   
> afaik we can expect them next year in 4.x
>> 2. HTML pictures
> I hope we will see it in 4.0 already.

Why not wait when this two things are ready and then give users v4?

>> 3. Account  like  in  OE  (example:  one Incoming folder for couple
>>Accounts)
> nice,  but  I do not expect this. And You can use common filters, do
> not You?

Yes, I know how to cheat this behavior, but this is not 100% OE style.
All wishes from list you can find here:
http://thebat.pl/forum/
This is not my wishes.

>> 4. Improved  backup  and  folder/message  maintenance  (.bin  files
>>problems)
>> 5. RSS native support   
>> 6. better IMAP   
>> 7. better calendar and exchange support   
> afaik  all  were planned for 4.x, but do not expect them in 4.0. For
> V4,  new  Microed with Unicode support is developed, as I expect, it
> will be introduced in 4.x too.

We  can  not  wait? Or RITs can not wait to add really big changes and
then go to v4? Major version comes with major improvements/changes.

From  this  list  for  me (Im moderator on polish TB forum) it is very
important number 4. There is very big problem with .bin files. When in
normal  TB installation we can try to import messages from this files,
with  OTFE  it  looks  like mission impossible. For me this looks like
huge  problem,  and  I  really  do not want once again answer users to
question about .bin files.

>> 8. Linux version   
> I  do  not  think, we will ever see The Bat! under Linux, if will be
> developed in Delphi. And really do not think, You can do business in
> this  platform,  nobody wants to pay for apps, because everything is
> free.

I will be first that pay for The Bat when it will be on this platform.

BTW  I paid for v2 and v3. Now I will consider to buy v4 in one polish
newspaper  (Komputer  Swiat)  that  offers  TB  full  license (without
update)   for   2,5   Euro.   List   with   full  versions  are  here:
http://www.ks-ekspert.pl/archiwum/info/pne/index.html

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Gary]

Hi Gleason,

On  Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:58:59 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 8:58 PM -0500 UTC my
time), Gleason Pace wrote:

>> I forgot to add that since you complain about "deleting messages twice"
>> tells me you know nothing about IMAP protocol or standards, which is
>> something Mulberry follows better than any other client. It is a complex
>> protocol. So your complaints are that they follow the protocol exactly, and
>> that is bad.

G> Exactly, it is a complex and large protocol.

Have you ever read it?

G>   That is why producing a really good implementation has eluded all
G> comers to date.

Again not true. you make a very big generalization upon a subject you
obviously know nothing about.

G>  Not that Rit is ripping people off by not doing what they promised.

Since you don't know about the IMAP protocol or its basic fuctionality or
features, or advanced features, I hardly think the above statement is
credible.

>> Your above complaints are directed at Mulberry, where in reality it should
>> be directed at the IMAP protocol. You dislike the messenger (Mulberry) for
>> bringing you the bad news, not the sender, which in this case is the
>> protocol/IMAP RFC  

G> Yes, it is that way because the specifications say it should be.  I
G> think Rit got it right by ignoring the specification on this one.  Let
G> them continue to be guided by what real people using their program
G> might want.

Then why use any RFC protocol at all, even SMTP, or POP, or heck... now you
can be Microsoft and just use what you want..  You are missing the point
because you do not understand the problem. Generalizations do not help, and
being sadly misinformed, e.g. the Mulberry history, are just ranting without
knowledge. Sorry, gotta go and this is silly.

-- 
Gary







 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Gary]

Hi Gleason,

On  Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:45:18 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 8:45 PM -0500 UTC my
time), Gleason Pace wrote:

G>>> In the case of Mulberry, they have convinced Cyrus to take Mulberry open
G>>> source after helping bankrupt it with their narrow vision of what an
G>>> email client should be (no html, etc.).

>> nothing can be farther from the truth from the above statement. The company
>> that merged with Mulberry, (Cyrusoft) lost a big govt contract that they bid
>> on. It is that simple. It had nothing to do with Mulberry the client or any
>> IT people driving it in a certain direction. The above is totally false.

G> Good.  Then perhaps you would agree that what gets used in a
G> production environment might not necessarily be the largest concern
G> that Rit might have with TB.

It should be their largest concern..

my definition of a production environment is that of using a software
product day in and day out individually or within or upon a network of
computers *without* problems. In other words, it is the opposite of either
alpha or beta software, where you would not use a product/software for day
to day activities, because it is inherently unstable or has too many bugs.

Since I use IMAP and my clients all use IMAP on my servers, there are
problems. They call me, taking my time (which is money) to answer problems
related to IMAP and TB! I don't get IMAP calls when they use other email
clients.

-- 
Gary







 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Gary]

Hi Gary,

On  Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:23:37 -0500 UTC (10/12/2007, 8:23 PM -0500 UTC my
time), Gary wrote:

G> Hi Gleason,

G> On  Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:45:51 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 7:45 PM -0500 UTC my
G> time), Gleason Pace wrote:

G>> Interesting.  One of the things I positively didn't like about
G>> Mulberry was the necessity to delete messages twice.  If I delete it,
G>> I want it to be gone.  All gone.  POP users have survived a long time
G>> without needing to deleting messages twice, why does this become
G>> necessary for Imap users?

G> This is the IMAP protocol, deletion is a 2 step process, as stated in the
G> RFC... a message is marked for deletion, then it is expunged. There is a
G> feature in Mulberry where you delete a message or thread, and then when you
G> go to another folder, or close the existing folder, it auto expunges or
G> deletes the messages marked for deletion. It takes me 2 keystrokes to
G> permanently delete threads for example.

I forgot to add that since you complain about "deleting messages twice"
tells me you know nothing about IMAP protocol or standards, which is
something Mulberry follows better than any other client. It is a complex
protocol. So your complaints are that they follow the protocol exactly, and
that is bad.

Your above complaints are directed at Mulberry, where in reality it should
be directed at the IMAP protocol. You dislike the messenger (Mulberry) for
bringing you the bad news, not the sender, which in this case is the
protocol/IMAP RFC :)


-- 
Gary







 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Gary]

Hi Gleason,

On  Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:19:32 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 8:19 PM -0500 UTC my
time), Gleason Pace wrote:

G> I also subscribe to the Mulberry and Pegasus discussion lists.  It is
G> worthy of remark how many of my fellow subscribers are IT types who
G> think developers should be guided by their needs.

Since it is now open source, any one can be in the development. Over the
many years of being on that list also, I have found the above not to be the
case.

G> In the case of Mulberry, they have convinced Cyrus to take Mulberry open
G> source after helping bankrupt it with their narrow vision of what an
G> email client should be (no html, etc.).

nothing can be farther from the truth from the above statement. The company
that merged with Mulberry, (Cyrusoft) lost a big govt contract that they bid
on. It is that simple. It had nothing to do with Mulberry the client or any
IT people driving it in a certain direction. The above is totally false.

-- 
Gary







 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Gary]

Hi Gleason,

On  Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:45:51 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 7:45 PM -0500 UTC my
time), Gleason Pace wrote:

G> Interesting.  One of the things I positively didn't like about
G> Mulberry was the necessity to delete messages twice.  If I delete it,
G> I want it to be gone.  All gone.  POP users have survived a long time
G> without needing to deleting messages twice, why does this become
G> necessary for Imap users?

This is the IMAP protocol, deletion is a 2 step process, as stated in the
RFC... a message is marked for deletion, then it is expunged. There is a
feature in Mulberry where you delete a message or thread, and then when you
go to another folder, or close the existing folder, it auto expunges or
deletes the messages marked for deletion. It takes me 2 keystrokes to
permanently delete threads for example.

-- 
Gary







 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Vilius Šumskas]

Sveiki,


> Alto,

>> Guten Morgen,

MS>>> I'm complaining every six months or so about the company's
MS>>> politics and the priority of issues, bugs and stuff like this and
MS>>> it seems that I am the almost the only one who isn't happy with
MS>>> this.

>> I'd rephrase that: You're one of the few that haven't given up yet.
>> The others do not see it necessary to beg for features that were
>> guaranteed years ago and have already been payed for. They have
>> resigned to the fact that they have been ripped off.

> I guess I am going to have to disagree with that.  TB Imap is not
> perfect, but it is the pick of my list which includes:

Execuse me, but TB!'s IMAP is a crap. It's not even in alpha stage. In
fact I haven't seen worse IMAP implementation. My students at
university write better IMAP code in 4 to 6 weeks than Ritlabs did it
in 4 years.

-- 
Best regards,
 Vilius



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Gary]

Hi Mike,

On  Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:59:27 -0500 UTC (10/12/2007, 6:59 PM -0500 UTC my
time), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

t> TheBat!'s IMAP handling is crude and unpredictable. I would never trust
t> it in a production environment. The HTML display is not tolerable until
t> we have the choice to display images.

I have only partially quoted your well thought out and purposeful email
regarding IMAP. I have been saying this for years, and it still is
unpredictable.

All this afternoon and yesterday, I am seeing an old bug recur over and
over. This is where you click on a new email, and there is no message body.
Hence, either this email is no longer there, or there is some other issue.
The way to correct this is to "Clear Catch Now"... my question is why is
this necessary on TB!'s implementation of IMAP?  No other client requires me
to clear the cache to read email properly at any time. It requires
unnecessary steps just to read mail. It is bothersome, troubling, and tells
me that IMAP is still not right. I cannot trust TB! IMAP for production use.

-- 
Gary







 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Julien RANC]

Marek Mikus wrote:



8. Linux version


I do not think, we will ever see The Bat! under Linux, if will be developed
in Delphi. And really do not think, You can do business in this platform,
nobody wants to pay for apps, because everything is free.



The Bat! is the one application I would really like to pay for on Linux...
However, I must confess I might not be representative of the vast 
majority of Linux users, who would not even try The Bat! unless it is 
GPL or some license alike, which, sadly, is never gonna happen...


Really too bad :(



Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Friday, October 12, 2007, Sebastian Murawski wrote:

> So
> 1. GUI - like in v3 upgrade

afaik we can expect huge change in V4, nothing small as themes in V3

> 2. Account wizard - it works now? .dsi files hmmm ... ??
> 3. message labels
> 
> For  me nothing special. I forgot! I can add: gmail aka theba.net. But
> still for me that is not major version.

do You really expect all features in 4.0? Do You expect major changes
between 3.99 and 4.00? ;-)

> What normal user expect is:
> 1. HTML templates

afaik we can expect them next year in 4.x

> 2. HTML pictures

I hope we will see it in 4.0 already.

> 3. Account like in OE (example: one  Incoming  folder for couple Accounts)

nice, but I do not expect this. And You can use common filters, do not You?

> 4. Improved backup and folder/message maintenance (.bin files problems)
> 5. RSS native support
> 6. better IMAP
> 7. better calendar and exchange support

afaik all were planned for 4.x, but do not expect them in 4.0. For V4, new
Microed with Unicode support is developed, as I expect, it will be
introduced in 4.x too.

> 8. Linux version

I do not think, we will ever see The Bat! under Linux, if will be developed
in Delphi. And really do not think, You can do business in this platform,
nobody wants to pay for apps, because everything is free.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.24
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
2.6.1.5

Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM


 




 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Peter Fjelsten]

Peter,

On 12-10-2007 21:15, you wrote in
:
MS>> I think that a state of the art modern interface should come with
MS>> state of the art features like IMAP and newsgroups ability.

> In case of IMAP I have to agree.

Me too.

-- 
 Best regards   
 Peter Fjelsten  
 3.99.3 Pro  MyGate, AVG 
 2 POP3, 14 IMAP (Courier) & 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 200K+ msgs. 
 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2   




 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Friday, October 12, 2007, Peter Hampf wrote:

> What I want is a sota eMail client, not more and not less. No newsgroup
> support and no mini browser and nothing that cooks my coffee or answers my
> phone. o-)

newsgroup is not planned, from my POV, this is almost dead service.

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.24
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
2.6.1.5

Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM


 



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Sebastian Murawski]

Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!!

Someday, and that was in evening, Gleason wrote something like this:
 yes, it will be, You must wait, work in progress
>>> release date
>> I'm  more  interested if features promised for v2 will be available
>> for v4. Or if this is just another milk the cows release.
>> Sorry for being so optimistic about that.
> Hasn't  everyone  seen  this? Well maybe not, so here it is from the
> RITLabs website:
...

So
1. GUI - like in v3 upgrade
2. Account wizard - it works now? .dsi files hmmm ... ??
3. message labels

For  me nothing special. I forgot! I can add: gmail aka theba.net. But
still for me that is not major version.

What normal user expect is:
1. HTML templates
2. HTML pictures
3. Account like in OE (example: one  Incoming  folder for couple Accounts)
4. Improved backup and folder/message maintenance (.bin files problems)
5. RSS native support
6. better IMAP
7. better calendar and exchange support
8. Linux version
9. ldap v3 with TLS/SSL


What I expect:
1. Bugfixes
2. News and RSS native support
3. HTML tamplates and pictures
4. PocketPC version with synchronization
5. Mouse gestures
6.  ACAP  implementation  for  auto-choose  best  secure connection to
server


-- 
Thanks and best regards,
 Sebastian Murawski



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Martin Sebald]

Hi Gleason!

> Hasn't everyone seen this?  Well maybe not, so here it is from the
> Ritlabs website: 

> The largest-scale changes were made in The Bat!’s interface.
> Users will see a totally new program.
> [...]

Sounds fancy and supports exactly what I wanted to say: A lot of cosmetic
fixes and some fancy bright new colorful stuff but old issues aren't fixed.
I think that a state of the art modern interface should come with state of
the art features like IMAP and newsgroups ability.

The last time I tried IMAP it did not work as it should, see here in the
group. I especially had problems with filters and stuff like this. Also
some other issues which makes IMAP completly unusable for me. Funny is that
I paid for IMAP when I bought v2.

Plus plus plus. But I'm really tired of talking this all and all over
again. I'm complaining every six months or so about the company's politics
and the priority of issues, bugs and stuff like this and it seems that I am
the almost the only one who isn't happy with this.

I agree that the TB interface should be state of the art. This is important
for a lot of (new) customers. But don't forget the tons of to-do's you can
see in the bug tracker and in the list of long promised features.

-- 

Regards,
Martin

The Bat! v3.99.24 powered by Windows Server 2003 "R2" Standard Edition 5.2 
Build 3790 Service Pack 2

ConCarne cooks best since 1998
http://www.concarne.org


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Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Martin Sebald]

Hi Vili!

> Friday, October 12, 2007, 6:06:15 PM:

>>> What's the situation? Any bètatesting for this version or...
>> yes, it will be, You must wait, work in progress :-)

> release date

I'm more interested if features promised for v2 will be available for v4.
Or if this is just another milk the cows release.

Sorry for being so optimistic about that. ;-)

-- 

Regards,
Martin

The Bat! v3.99.24 powered by Windows Server 2003 "R2" Standard Edition 5.2 
Build 3790 Service Pack 2

ConCarne cooks best since 1998
http://www.concarne.org


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Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Matt Thoene]

On Friday, October 12, 2007 @ 6:16:34 AM [-0700], Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

> What's the situation? Any bètatesting for this version or...

Hah! Had me going there for a second. Saw the subject line and thought
that 4.0 was ready for download!

-- 
Matt 
Using 3.99.20 (BETA) on Windows Vista 6.0  Build 6000
()  



 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat! 4.0

[Marek Mikus]

Hello all,
Friday, October 12, 2007, Henk M. de Bruijn wrote:

> What's the situation? Any bètatesting for this version or...

yes, it will be, You must wait, work in progress :-)

-- 

Bye

Marek Mikus
Czech support of The Bat!
http://www.thebat.cz

Using the best The Bat! 3.99.24
under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, NOD32 Antivirus plugin and AntispamSniper v 
2.6.1.5

Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 1 GB RAM


 




 Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: The Bat 4.0

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Boris,

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:59:50 -0500GMT (3-9-2004, 16:59 +0200, where I
live), you wrote:

MB>> I trust that support will be there for me, if I need it
BG> Ritlabs  support?  I emailed them several times and got no respond. I can't
BG> even be sure it  exists. :D

I've mailed them once and got an answer very soon.
And that was not because I was well known to them, because it was
before I was subscribed to TBUDL. Now that I think about it it was
more than three years ago, since my first message on TBUDL arrived at
1 sept 2001.

Now that I think of it, when I was subscribed to tbudl for two years
Ritlabs issued v2, after three years...
I must have made quite an impression 

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

The Bat! 3.0
Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1
1 pop3 account, server on LAN

Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies 
or rabbits.


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 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/

Re: The Bat 4.0

[Mary Bull]

Hello Boris!

On Friday, September 03, 2004, 9:59 AM, you wrote:

MB>> I trust that support will be there for me, if I need it

BG> Ritlabs support? I emailed them several times and got no respond.
BG> I can't even be sure it exists. :D

I am sorry that you have had that bad experience.

When I first got The Bat!, I was even more inexperienced with
computers than I am now. I downloaded a faulty copy of v.1.61, and it
wouldn't function on some very basic things. But I didn't even know
that there could be such a thing as a faulty download.

At least two of the team responded and tried to help me. Eventually
someone on tbudl convinced me to download again, and the new copy
worked. Because of the language difference, I think, I had not been
able to make my RITLabs correspondents understand my original problem.
For a new user, it was very frustrating. But I appreciated their
courteous attempts to help.

It seems to me, also, that Stefan and Maxim and 9Val and others are
doing their best to help with problems here on tbbeta.

Have you tried a private mail to one of them about your difficulty?

-- 
Best regards,
Mary

The Bat! 3.0 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2




 Current beta is (none) | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/