Re: Displaying the Euro Symbol
On Mon 8 March 2004, 3:53:58 +1000, Julian Beach (Lists) wrote: On Saturday, March 6, 2004, 9:11:28 AM, David Stone wrote: I did notice that the email from you showed the as a square with spokes on each corner which I think is alt0164 ¤. Did you generate it with alt0164, or with alt-Gr 4 which is what I used? is created with Crtl-Alt-4 and ¤ is created with alt0164. is produced by AltGr-4. Hmm, I experimented with my system (since the Euro symbol is not something I have much cause to use) and found Alt-0128 to be the key combination, thus - . -- Robin Anson Using The Bat! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! not ending?
Hello Allister, On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:25:59 +1300 GMT (3/7/2004, 9:25 PM -0800 GMT), Allister Jenks wrote: AJ Hello TBUDLers, AJ I seem to have a new problem since installing 2.04.7 in that TB! appears AJ to shut down when asked (the windows and system tray icon disappear), AJ but I discovered that the task (thebat.exe) is still running and AJ consuming a huge chunk of CPU. AJ Anyone else getting this problem or is it just me? Yes, I had that problem as well as the Connection Centre sticking. It has not happened since I moved from 2.04.4 up to 2.04.7. -- Best regards, Dennis - The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is the right to be free The Human Race proudly using The Bat! 2.04.7 Windows 2000 Professional 5.0.2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Account Log Doesn't Update After an Error
Hi, Running The Bat! v2.04.7 on XP Home. I just had a mail server problem, it put a couple of entries in the account log saying so. Ok, normal behaviour, no problem. However, the server problem was only a temporary outage, so I was able to send some messages successfully a short while ago. The problem is, The Bat! did not enter any of these messages in the account log. Even receiving some emails didn't update the log - the last entry continued to be the error lines. To get the log updating again, I had to clear the log completely, now The Bat! is updating the log again. Is this a bug? I know the log usually fully overwrites itself every few days, so it's not a big problem, but it exhibits buggy behaviour. Chris Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Account Log Doesn't Update After an Error
Hi Chris, Running The Bat! v2.04.7 on XP Home. I just had a mail server problem, it put a couple of entries in the account log saying so. Ok, normal behaviour, no problem. However, the server problem was only a temporary outage, so I was able to send some messages successfully a short while ago. The problem is, The Bat! did not enter any of these messages in the account log. Even receiving some emails didn't update the log - the last entry continued to be the error lines. To get the log updating again, I had to clear the log completely, now The Bat! is updating the log again. Is this a bug? I know the log usually fully overwrites itself every few days, so it's not a big problem, but it exhibits buggy behaviour. I had a problem once with the logs. See http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg69091.html for a detailed explanation. My guess is that the problem was a corrupted file, and not a TB! problem per se. It seems as if the info is still being written to the log file, but it's not saving correctly because of the corruption. When I had the problem, I checked the file date modified time for the log file and the time indicated that they were being updated, but nothing new was in the files. I don't know how TB! could detect corruption in the log files unless it would somehow go back and check what it had just written to see if it was saved. -- Regards, Terry Using The Bat! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: BUG: Having an account with LAN network settings in Check All stack causes failure of SEND for Dial-Up account
Hello dAniel, On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:04:54 +0100 GMT (07/03/2004, 22:04 +0700 GMT), dAniel hAhler wrote: It is not a bug, you tell TB to act the way it does. Solution: Take the tickmark off. No it does not. I tell him to use LAN for this special hamster-account. For all others it should use no special network settings, ergo: Dialup. Allie and I had an off-list discussion about this thread. Apparently, my paradigm was a bit limited: I interpreted a LAN connection as an internet connection via LAN. TB can only handle one internet connection at the time, so that when it believes a LAN connection has been established, it won't dial out for the other accounts. It appears that is not the setup in question: The hamster is on another computer on the same LAN, and there is no reason to establish an internet connection to check mail from there. Taking the tickmark off won't help you with this, I admit. So, when there are messages to be sent on any account that does not use LAN, the connection has to be established first. That's the bug. TB thinks it can send out the messages on all accounts, when there is just one (independant) account with LAN network settings and fails, of course. Yes. The work-around would be to take set Ignore check for all in that account, so the dial-up will kick in for the others. Is your bug that TB doesn't dial out when a LAN connection is established, or that you don't see an error in the log for sent failed? TB should simply not try to SEND mail for dialup accounts before the appropriate connection is up. Here is a technical question I don't know the answer to: If a LAN connection is established, would TB be able to know whether this extends into the internet? If not, it would and should try to send the messages through the LAN. Of course, there should be an error message when this failed. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Es wird immer komplizierter einfach zu leben. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: BUG: Having an account with LAN network settings in Check All stack causes failure of SEND for Dial-Up account
Hello bats, on Mon, 8. Mar 2004 at 22:03:43 +0700 Thomas Fernandez wrote: TB can only handle one internet connection at the time, so that when it believes a LAN connection has been established, it won't dial out for the other accounts. but that would mean that also the FETCH tasks for dialup accounts would fail/be terminated. It appears that is not the setup in question: The hamster is on another computer on the same LAN, and there is no reason to establish an internet connection to check mail from there. Taking the tickmark off won't help you with this, I admit. It's even on the same computer, and taking the tickmark off helps - to work around the bug... Yes. The work-around would be to take set Ignore check for all in that account, so the dial-up will kick in for the others. ...or this way - but it would mean to check the account for itself on a regular basis. And dialup will kick in nevertheless for the other accounts, but the SEND tasks won't wait for it. Is your bug that TB doesn't dial out when a LAN connection is established, or that you don't see an error in the log for sent failed? Sent failed is the error. It dials out indeed and gets mail for all accounts, but the SEND is emerges too early (when there is a LAN setting account in check-all-stack). TB should simply not try to SEND mail for dialup accounts before the appropriate connection is up. Here is a technical question I don't know the answer to: If a LAN connection is established, would TB be able to know whether this extends into the internet? If not, it would and should try to send the messages through the LAN. Of course, there should be an error message when this failed. No, it should not send messages through LAN for an account that's dialup. And if it would do so for speed issues it would have to check if the smtp server address is reachable. If not, wait for dialup connection. -- shinE! http://www.thequod.de ICQ#152282665 GnuPG/PGP key: http://thequod.de/danielhahler.asc Using The Bat! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 with POPFile 0.20.1 and avast Mar2004 (4.1.357). Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: BUG: Having an account with LAN network settings in Check All stack causes failure of SEND for Dial-Up account
Hello dAniel, On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:56:06 +0100 GMT (08/03/2004, 22:56 +0700 GMT), dAniel hAhler wrote: It appears that is not the setup in question: The hamster is on another computer on the same LAN, and there is no reason to establish an internet connection to check mail from there. Taking the tickmark off won't help you with this, I admit. It's even on the same computer, and taking the tickmark off helps - to work around the bug... I don't quite understand the reason for your unusual setup. Care to explain? Yes. The work-around would be to take set Ignore check for all in that account, so the dial-up will kick in for the others. ...or this way - but it would mean to check the account for itself on a regular basis. And dialup will kick in nevertheless for the other accounts, but the SEND tasks won't wait for it. The send tasks over here wait for the dial-up. I think if you do take the tickmark off, the same would happen at your end. Anyway, that's not your point. One question: The POP-checking of the non-LAN accounts poses no problem. Is it because they don't try to check or because they report an error? In any case, it is weird that checking and sending behave differently. Is your bug that TB doesn't dial out when a LAN connection is established, or that you don't see an error in the log for sent failed? Sent failed is the error. It dials out indeed and gets mail for all accounts, but the SEND is emerges too early (when there is a LAN setting account in check-all-stack). So the bug is not reporting the error. But you you want is that it behaves the same way the checking behaves, right? I would agree to that. No, it should not send messages through LAN for an account that's dialup. I am grateful it does. My dial-up connection sometimes breaks. Then I dial in to another ISP with a DUN-icon on my desktop, and lo and behold, TB connects great to the POP and SMTP servers. Even though LAN or manual connection would have to be set. I would hate it if I had to switch that every time. And if it would do so for speed issues it would have to check if the smtp server address is reachable. If not, wait for dialup connection. Either use the dial-up, or at least report an error. I agree with that. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Wenn ich Sie jetzt um Sex bitten wuerde - waere Ihre Antwort die gleiche, die Sie auf diese Frage geben? Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
On Monday, March 8, 2004, 4:50:46 PM, Marck D Pearlstone wrote: MDP One thing that we feel duty bound to do here is to provide you MDP with clear instructions for the use of the X-No-Archive header MDP for those that *really* don't want their posts echoed to this MDP pretty well spam-safe news feed. Can I add a reminder that the X-No-Archive header only ensures your original post isn't archived? If someone quotes you, and they don't use the X-No-Archive header, whatever they quote will be archived. I'm also not satisfied with pretty well spam-safe (especially when it was zero spam risks only a few days ago) so I won't be posting. Yes, I know that nothing is spam-safe - but this is where my line is drawn. -- Deborah Using The Bat! v2.02.3 CE on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Deborah W wrote: I'm also not satisfied with pretty well spam-safe (especially when it was zero spam risks only a few days ago) so I won't be posting. Yes, I know that nothing is spam-safe - but this is where my line is drawn. Let's say Deborah, that with the current GMane setup, you're as likely to receive spam, posting to the tblists as you were all along. The spammer will have no easier a time obtaining your e-mail address as he would have before. It's not like it's impossible for your address to be harvested even now. One such way to harvest would be to just subscribe to the list for a month or two and then harvest the addresses from the messages. The same for TBOT etc. However, this would not seem to be very practical since there's much easier fish to be caught via open usenet, circulating address lists etc. I've been using the address that I currently use for TBOT for a long time and haven't been receiving spam for that address. So if you're proposing not posting then, I propose not posting at all to any of the lists. ;) IMO, your concern is unreasonable and inconsistent, considering that you've been posting to the lists all along. :) -- -=[ Allie Martin ]=- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
The Bat thinks it needs registration
When upgrading from XP Home to XP Pro, Windows did not properly install. To get around this, a consultant performed what effectively amounted to a clean install of XP Pro from the upgrade CD. Although the old windows folder and software are still on the hard disk, we created a new windows folder from which the pc is directed to boot up, requiring me to reinstall all of the old software. Copying the old The Bat directory to the new Windows program directory from the old directory, allows me to use e-Mail, but I have to add each of the three accounts that I had, manually, AND, more importantly, (as with my AV and firewall) the Bat thinks I am using a trial version and wants me to register or buy within 30 days (now 28). Of course, I registered and paid for The Bat a little over two years ago. 1. Should I just re-register using the product key that was e-mailed to me, or is there a more elegant (and preferable) way to do this? 2. I am currently using version 1.61. Because it worked fine for me, I never bothered to upgrade to 2.0. However, how do I know what release of 1.61 I am using (is it i , k, r etc.)? I last upgraded to i or k, but how do I know that the .exe file for The Bat's application that I clicked on to install it, is actually running the most recent version of 1.61 that I upgraded to? The about feature under help does not clarify which release is being used, other than to say 1.61. Thanks. -- Avram Sacks Chicago using The Bat ver. 1.61 on XP Pro Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat thinks it needs registration
Hello sacksa, On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:20:39 -0600 GMT (09/03/2004, 00:20 +0700 GMT), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Should I just re-register using the product key that was e-mailed to me, or is there a more elegant (and preferable) way to do this? This is the elegant (and preferred) way. ;-) 2. [...] The about feature under help does not clarify which release is being used, other than to say 1.61. Then you have the original, before the lettering started. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it? Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat thinks it needs registration
Hi sacksa, on Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:20:39 -0600GMT, you wrote: scc 1. Should I just re-register using the product key that was e-mailed to me, scc or is there a more elegant (and preferable) way to do this? What is unelegant about that? I'd just do it. I believe it'll work. scc 2. I am currently using version 1.61. Because it worked fine for me, I scc never bothered to upgrade to 2.0. However, how do I know what release of scc 1.61 I am using (is it i , k, r etc.)? Were there any letter versions of 1.61? I don't think so. It was 1.62 with those many letter releases... I know my mother is sticking to her 1.61 and it has no letter either. :-) -- Cheers Peter If they don't want us to drink and drive, why do you have to have a driver's license to buy beer? Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Deborah, Monday, March 8, 2004, 10:06:53 AM, you wrote: Deborah Can I add a reminder that the X-No-Archive header only Deborah ensures your original post isn't archived? If someone quotes Deborah you, and they don't use the X-No-Archive header, whatever Deborah they quote will be archived. Yes, you are correct in this. But, let's look at the facts. In your messages to the TB lists, you have a sig delimiter which effectively deletes the information below it when someone replies. The only information about you below that line is your first name. You don't even have an e-mail address visible in the plaintext portion of your message. Deborah I'm also not satisfied with pretty well spam-safe Deborah (especially when it was zero spam risks only a few days Deborah ago) so I won't be posting. Yes, I know that nothing is Deborah spam-safe - but this is where my line is drawn. Now, as for your information in the headers, yes, your name as it appears in the e-mail (Deborah W) will be visible in the newsgroup. Your e-mail address will be encrypted and overly difficult for spammers to harvest. You've been posting to the TB lists already for a bit. We have made it abundantly clear in the list welcome message that messages are already being archived and are available on the web, and have been for quite a while. The current list archives are pretty secure in that your e-mail address is already removed. Gmane is no different except it's yet another avenue for people to keep up with the lists without subscribing (they can't post, but can read). You've got three heavy duty geeks (the mods) at least who think this is a viable idea with very minimal risk. We don't like spam any more than you all do, and one of our guiding principles since these lists came to life is to provide great lists to foster a community. You guys are our family and we wouldn't do something to our family without thinking out all the angles. *We believe the spam risk through Gmane to be the same or even less than the current list archives already in place.* -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Dear Rich, @8-Mar-2004, 12:46 -0500 (08-Mar 17:46 UK time) rich gregory [RG] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: MDP ... instructions for the use of the X-No-Archive header for those MDP that *really* don't want their posts echoed ... MDP In your TB-list reply template, add the following: MDP %SetHeader(X-No-Archive,Yes)%- RG Aside from the reply template won't we need to also add that macro RG string to the NEW message template? erm - yes. Kenosabe make good point. RG (Any others?) Not that I can think of. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
GMane - here we come
Can someone actually explain what GMane is! Is it a Newsgroup, some private forum, a Yahoo! group ? Do we change anything here or do we just continue reading / responding to message as they arise like now? Later: Having Googled for GMane I now see that it is a News group thing. There does seem to be one major obstacle in that it requires you to set your newsreader to news.gmane.org. As my newsreader only allows one feed, it's going to be very clumsy to have to keep changing news feeds every time I want to look at some messages! Trevor __ Monday, March 8, 2004, 4:50:46 PM, you wrote: MDP Hi T'Buddlers, MDP Well, having asked for objections to the idea of reflecting the TB MDP lists to GMane to provide access to the list in a News format, we MDP haven't received any that stood up to scrutiny. MDP As such, we (the mods) are giving notice that we intend to enable MDP the GMane feed on Wednesday. That still gives you folks 2 days to MDP either brace yourselves, object strongly or look forward with eager MDP anticipation. MDP One thing that we feel duty bound to do here is to provide you with MDP clear instructions for the use of the X-No-Archive header for those MDP that *really* don't want their posts echoed to this pretty well MDP spam-safe news feed. MDP 1). Open Option | Preferences and click on Message list | Message MDP headers (http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/header-edit.gif) MDP 2). Click on Add and enter the details as shown here: MDP http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/x-no-archive.gif MDP 3). In your TB-list reply template, add the following: MDP %SetHeader(X-No-Archive,Yes)%- MDP That should do it. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Monday, March 8, 2004, 10:50:46 AM, you wrote: Hi T'Buddlers, Well, having asked for objections to the idea of reflecting the TB lists to GMane to provide access to the list in a News format, we haven't received any that stood up to scrutiny. Marck, I missed most of the original discussions regarding this subject, so I have a few questions. 1. Does this mean that tbudl will now become an official Usenet *newsgroup? 2. Can one subscribe to it as one would normally subscribe to any other Usenet newsgroup? 3. And will one be able to use Agent (or some other newsreader) to access it? *Provided one's news service chooses to carry this new newsgroup. -- Best regards, Jack Using The Bat! 2.04.7 on Windows 5.1 (2600) Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hi Marck, on Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:50:46 +GMT, you wrote: MDP Well, having asked for objections to the idea of reflecting the TB MDP lists to GMane to provide access to the list in a News format, we MDP haven't received any that stood up to scrutiny. I recently set up The Bat! to work for the usenet as well, so there will be two ways for me now to receive the MLs... ;-) Seriously: I have no problem with GMane as long as I can receive my mailing lists as /mail/... *G* -- Cheers Peter The only person getting his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Trevor, On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:02:44 + GMT (09/03/2004, 01:02 +0700 GMT), Trevor Langford wrote: Later: Having Googled for GMane I now see that it is a News group thing. There does seem to be one major obstacle in that it requires you to set your newsreader to news.gmane.org. As my newsreader only allows one feed, it's going to be very clumsy to have to keep changing news feeds every time I want to look at some messages! This list will exist in exactly the same way as it is now. The difference is, the messages will be mirrored in that newsgroup, which exists only on that server. So, if you do want to read TBUDL by newsreader, you can. If you don't, well: don't. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. There is a CD out entitled The Worst of Jefferson Airplane. If you buy this, take it home, play it, and enjoy it, should you take it back and demand a refund? Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Monday, March 8, 2004, 12:02:44 PM, you wrote: Can someone actually explain what GMane is! Is it a Newsgroup, some private forum, a Yahoo! group ? Do we change anything here or do we just continue reading / responding to message as they arise like now? Later: Having Googled for GMane I now see that it is a News group thing. There does seem to be one major obstacle in that it requires you to set your newsreader to news.gmane.org. As my newsreader only allows one feed, One suggestion is to give Dialog a try: http://www.40tude.com/dialog/ It handles multiple news feeds, and quite nicely, too. Plus, it's FREE. -- Best regards, Jack Using The Bat! 2.04.7 on Windows 5.1 (2600) Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Leif, On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:55:00 -0700 GMT (09/03/2004, 00:55 +0700 GMT), Leif Gregory wrote: Your e-mail address will be encrypted and overly difficult for spammers to harvest. [...] You've got three heavy duty geeks (the mods) at least who think this is a viable idea with very minimal risk. Due to the experience of all of you (rather than believing in the theory, you have posted on Game-mirrored lists for a while and have not seen an increase in spam), we should all relax now and see what happens. Everything has been said, IMHO. *We believe the spam risk through Gmane to be the same or even less than the current list archives already in place.* I'll keep that as a sig, just in case, if you don't mind. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I like to sing to the songs on the radio in my car. When you go into a tunnel, it's hard to come out on the right note. Actually, the news is more difficult. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Jack, Monday, March 8, 2004, 11:11:54 AM, you wrote: Jack 1. Does this mean that tbudl will now become an official Usenet Jack *newsgroup? On Gmane's servers, yes. Jack 2. Can one subscribe to it as one would normally subscribe to Jack any other Usenet newsgroup? Not in the newsgroup subscribe sense. You have to be a subscriber to the lists (nomail option if you'd like so you don't receive mail). Jack 3. And will one be able to use Agent (or some other newsreader) Jack to access it? Yes. Jack *Provided one's news service chooses to carry this new Jack newsgroup. Right now, this functionality is only available through the GMane news servers. You have to connect to those to read the messages. They are planning to eventually pump these feeds into mainstream usenet. -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Thomas, Monday, March 8, 2004, 11:20:56 AM, you wrote: *We believe the spam risk through Gmane to be the same or even less than the current list archives already in place.* Thomas I'll keep that as a sig, just in case, if you don't mind. ;-) Uhmmm, let me copyright that real quick.. grin -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Dear Jack, @8-Mar-2004, 12:11 -0600 (08-Mar 18:11 UK time) Jack Morrison [JM] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: JM Marck, I missed most of the original discussions regarding this JM subject, so I have a few questions. Okay - shoot. duck JM 1. Does this mean that tbudl will now become an official Usenet JM *newsgroup? No. The Gmane newsgroup server will carry an archive of all archive-able posts the TBUDL (and others). JM 2. Can one subscribe to it as one would normally subscribe to JM any other Usenet newsgroup? Only from the Gmane server. JM 3. And will one be able to use Agent (or some other newsreader) JM to access it? Yes. JM *Provided one's news service chooses to carry this new newsgroup. (I don't think they do). -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Leif, On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:35:00 -0700 GMT (09/03/2004, 01:35 +0700 GMT), Leif Gregory wrote: They are planning to eventually pump these feeds into mainstream usenet. Oh... -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. SYMPTOM: Beer unusually pale and tasteless. FAULT: Glass empty. ACTION: Get someone to buy you another beer. Message reply created with The Bat! 2.04.7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: GMane - here we come
Monday, March 8, 2004, 12:36:37 PM, you wrote: Dear Jack, @8-Mar-2004, 12:11 -0600 (08-Mar 18:11 UK time) Jack Morrison [JM] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: JM Marck, I missed most of the original discussions regarding this JM subject, so I have a few questions. Okay - shoot. duck I come in peace. :) JM 1. Does this mean that tbudl will now become an official Usenet JM *newsgroup? No. The Gmane newsgroup server will carry an archive of all archive-able posts the TBUDL (and others). I'm a little confused about what archive means here. Will posts made to tbudl be mirrored over to this new newsgroup as they occur? Or in some kind of weekly/daily digest? Additionally, what kind of posts aren't archive-able? JM 2. Can one subscribe to it as one would normally subscribe to JM any other Usenet newsgroup? Only from the Gmane server. Once subscribed to the newsgroup via Gmane, if I understand things correctly so far, I can READ messages there, but I can't POST any there? That is, if I actually wanted to make a post to tbudl, I'd still have to do it via the tbudl mail list? JM 3. And will one be able to use Agent (or some other newsreader) JM to access it? Yes. Great! JM *Provided one's news service chooses to carry this new newsgroup. (I don't think they do). So...I have to use news.gmane.org. Okay. Thanks, Marck! -- Best regards, Jack Using The Bat! 2.04.7 on Windows 5.1 (2600) Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: GMane - here we come
Does anyone have the name of this new Gmane newsgroup yet? -- Best regards, Jack Using The Bat! 2.04.7 on Windows 5.1 (2600) Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
On Monday, March 8, 2004, 1:36 PM, you wrote: this looks like a good message to ( start) adding this Gmane info to THE FAQ:) MDP @8-Mar-2004, 12:11 -0600 (08-Mar 18:11 UK time) Jack Morrison [JM] MDP in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: JM Marck, I missed most of the original discussions regarding this JM subject, so I have a few questions. MDP Okay - shoot. duck JM 1. Does this mean that tbudl will now become an official Usenet JM *newsgroup? MDP No. The Gmane newsgroup server will carry an archive of all MDP archive-able posts the TBUDL (and others). JM 2. Can one subscribe to it as one would normally subscribe to JM any other Usenet newsgroup? MDP Only from the Gmane server. JM 3. And will one be able to use Agent (or some other newsreader) JM to access it? MDP Yes. JM *Provided one's news service chooses to carry this new newsgroup. MDP (I don't think they do). -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Mar2004 (4.1.357) (avast! version number) 0403-4 (08.03.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: GMane - here we come
Monday, March 8, 2004, 1:11:53 PM, you wrote: Your [GMane] e-mail address will be encrypted and overly difficult for spammers to harvest. How is this done, can we see some examples of this in action BEFOE we panic? Rich, here's a pretty good explanation of how it works, but I agree, seeing is believing: http://gmane.org/tmda.php -- Best regards, Jack Using The Bat! 2.04.7 on Windows 5.1 (2600) Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: DNS info, WAS: Re: TB blacklisted on Lycos?
On Sunday, March 7, 2004, 8:45 PM, you wrote: JA Comcast brought out the ATT cable internet a while back. I guess JA they've not updated DNS for your area. oh, what a surprise!! I haven't had many problems with Comcast, so I won't say anything bad right now:) I had nothing in that box-DNS suffix for this connection- so I added comcast.net. Lets see if it makes a difference. JA It shouldn't really matter. DHCP should be assigning it for you. got it, thanks for the info! -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Mar2004 (4.1.357) (avast! version number) 0403-4 (08.03.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Dirigo, Monday, March 8, 2004, 12:28:26 PM, you wrote: Dirigo I have followed your instructions to a T. Right to the point Dirigo of placing the dash(-) where indicated. Have I followed your Dirigo instructions correctly? I'm curious about the signficance of Dirigo the dash. Is it a delimiter to indicate the end of all Dirigo macros within a template? If so ... I better go put it after Dirigo the %QUOTES macro I also have in my templates. Just to put your mind at ease, your headers now have the below: ,-- [ From your post ] | X-No-Archive: Yes | MIME-Version: 1.0 | Subject: Re: GMane - here we come `-- You did it right. No, the %- means not to put a new line. Without it, it really becomes apparent when you have macros above everything else in the template. You get all sorts of blank lines above your text. -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Dirigo, On 08 March 2004, 14:28 -0500 (08/03/200419:28 local time) Dirigo [D] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3). In your TB-list reply template, add the following: %SetHeader(X-No-Archive,Yes)%- D I have followed your instructions to a T. Right to the point of D placing the dash(-) where indicated. Have I followed your D instructions correctly? I'm curious about the signficance of the D dash. Is it a delimiter to indicate the end of all macros within a D template? If so ... I better go put it after the %QUOTES macro I also D have in my templates. The %- simply suppresses a new line. If it wasn't there your messages would include an empty line. You could string the macros together but this makes for easier reading. - -- As ever, Martin Webster The Bat! 2.04.4 | BayesIt! 0.4gm (Windows XP Professional Service Pack 1) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP SDK 3.0.3 Comment: PGP Key available from ldap://europe.keys.pgp.com:11370/; iQA/AwUBQEzZ3Tknq5PWREYNEQLLEwCgk9ZRPGO66WLFJp7gToHjuLbxIZoAoLvk THeb2+VtcS8MdyWBibOrD/XO =+7qJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello rich, Monday, March 8, 2004, 12:11:53 PM, you wrote: rich How is this done, can we see some examples of this in action rich BEFOE we panic? Absorutery Raggy! grin http://article.gmane.org/gmane.test/1341 I just picked this one at random because it shows the encrypted URL. So, here's what you do (please remember, don't actually send this poor guy any real messages). 1. Once the above link is opened, hover your mouse cursor over the hyperlink in the FROM line. 2. Click the hyperlink in the FROM line to see the TMDA in action. 3. Read that page. So you can either retype the e-mail address from the TMDA box, or click the encrypted hyperlink in which you would receive a challenge from the GMane server. -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Dear Jack, @8-Mar-2004, 13:22 -0600 (08-Mar 19:22 UK time) Jack Morrison [JM] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: Okay - shoot. duck JM I come in peace. :) (phew!) The Gmane newsgroup server will carry an archive of all archive-able posts the TBUDL (and others). JM I'm a little confused about what archive means here. Will posts JM made to tbudl be mirrored over to this new newsgroup as they JM occur? Or in some kind of weekly/daily digest? As they occur. JM Additionally, what kind of posts aren't archive-able? Those bearing the header X-No-Archive: Yes will not be archived. JM 2. Can one subscribe to it as one would normally subscribe to JM any other Usenet newsgroup? Only from the Gmane server. JM Once subscribed to the newsgroup via Gmane, if I understand JM things correctly so far, I can READ messages there, but I can't JM POST any there? Correct. JM That is, if I actually wanted to make a post to tbudl, I'd still JM have to do it via the tbudl mail list? Yes. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Thomas, Monday, March 8, 2004, 11:46:41 AM, you wrote: They are planning to eventually pump these feeds into mainstream usenet. Thomas Oh... Still with encrypted addresses, and I believe they will offer us the option of whether we want that to happen with our lists. We will be looking at that functionality very closely when or if it does become a reality. -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hi Leif, on Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:36:30 -0700GMT, you wrote: LG No, the %- means not to put a new line. Without it, it really becomes LG apparent when you have macros above everything else in the template. LG You get all sorts of blank lines above your text. LG LG LG LG -- LG Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Or below... ;-) SCNR -- Cheers Peter There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary and those who don't. Winamp currently playing: Chicago - Question 67 68 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Peter, Monday, March 8, 2004, 2:23:33 PM, you wrote: LG LG -- LG Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Peter Or below... ;-) SCNR grin You scared the heck out of me... I just rebuilt my box and I thought... Oh no!!! I screwed up my sig delimiter! I checked my post and it was all good! grin I just like whitespace between my message and text... grin -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: GMane - here we come
Monday, March 8, 2004, 2:44:09 PM, you wrote: [] JM Additionally, what kind of posts aren't archive-able? Those bearing the header X-No-Archive: Yes will not be archived. So, in other words, if I've added X-No-Archive: Yes to my headers, then the only place where my message will ever appear is right here on the the tbudl mail list, and it will *never* appear on the Gmane-tbudl newsgroup, so help you God? If that's true, Marck, please affix your thumbprint to the bottom of this message, and then forward it to me privately -- after including your home address, phone number, plus the names of all of your children. :) -- Best regards, Jack Using The Bat! 2.04.7 on Windows 5.1 (2600) Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Dear Rich, @8-Mar-2004, 17:00 -0500 (08-Mar 22:00 UK time) rich gregory [RG] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: RG The page you cite mentions a header tweak: X-Archive: encrypt You don't need this - the whole list will be encrypted. RG If TBUDL is broken is this some attempt to fix it? RG If it's not broken then why are we moving to GMane? The list archive is not very good. We can't fix it. News groups provide far more effective archives. We have often been asked to migrate to a newsgroup because it's easier and it doesn't flood your inbox. We're doing this as a good compromise. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Jack, Monday, March 8, 2004, 12:20:26 PM, you wrote: Jack Gmane generates e-mail, too? No... grin Gmane has the ability to allow someone to post to the list via posting to the newsgroup. However, we are not doing this as it will allow bad stuff to possibly happen (spam etc.) However, many newsgroup readers can send e-mail (Agent), so you can reply to a newsgroup post on Gmane and have it sent to the list address, and provided your From address is set to that which you have subscribed to the TB list, your message will post to the list and in doing so get posted to Gmane. If you only wanted to view the TB stuff through the newsgroup, you could set your TB list options to NoMail so you'll be subscribed with posting privileges, but you won't receive mail from the lists like you do now. Jack Thanks for the info, Leif! np. That's why we decided to post the Wednesday deadline (crossposted to all lists) so we could get all the fears allayed and questions answered, and the how-to on the X-No-Archive header. -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
On Monday, March 8, 2004, 3:43 PM, you wrote: LG http://article.gmane.org/gmane.test/1341 LG I just picked this one at random because it shows the encrypted URL. nice! even colorblind I can read his real email!! good thing it wasn't the colored bubble test, I wouldnt be able to read itG and I searched and didn't find TBUDL as a group, aren't we in there, or doesn't it start til Wed.?? -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Mar2004 (4.1.357) (avast! version number) 0403-4 (08.03.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Trevor Langford, [TL] wrote: TL Can someone actually explain what GMane is! Go to www.gmane.org where it's fully described. There was a recent long thread about it, titled 'Time for a Newsgroup?' TL Later: Having Googled for GMane I now see that it is a News group TL thing. There does seem to be one major obstacle in that it TL requires you to set your newsreader to news.gmane.org. As my TL newsreader only allows one feed, it's going to be very clumsy to TL have to keep changing news feeds every time I want to look at some TL messages! Well, you can continue reading list mail as you do now. The newsgroup mirror will be just another way to read the list traffic. It's read only. -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Jack Morrison, [JM] wrote: JM I'm a little confused about what archive means here. Will posts made JM to tbudl be mirrored over to this new newsgroup as they occur? Or in JM some kind of weekly/daily digest? Why not visit www.gmane.org and look at a couple of the newsgroups via the web interface. All messages to the list will be archived there individually. A copy of each message will be sent there as well as to each member as usual. E-mail addresses in the message bodies will by obfuscated via the web interface as it's done on Yahoogroups. Messages downloadable via NNTP will have all e-mail addresses within the message body and text encrypted. You'll need a regular list subscription for posting to the list since the newsgroup isn't really separate and we'll be barring posting to the newserver directly. JM Once subscribed to the newsgroup via Gmane, if I understand things JM correctly so far, I can READ messages there, but I can't POST any JM there? JM That is, if I actually wanted to make a post to tbudl, I'd still JM have to do it via the tbudl mail list? Yes. JM So...I have to use news.gmane.org. Okay. You don't. List traffic will still reach your inbox unless you set your subscription to NOMAIL. -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Jack Morrison, [JM] wrote: JM Rich, here's a pretty good explanation of how it works, but I JM agree, seeing is believing: JM http://gmane.org/tmda.php Just subscribe to one of the lists there and inspect a few of the messages. In that way, you'll see it so you can believe it or not. :) -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Paul, Monday, March 8, 2004, 4:42:28 PM, you wrote: Paul and I searched and didn't find TBUDL as a group, aren't we in Paul there, or doesn't it start til Wed.?? Nope, we aren't planning to do it till Wednesday. -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Hello Allie, Monday, March 8, 2004, 1:25:00 PM, you wrote: Allie Well, you can continue reading list mail as you do now. The Allie newsgroup mirror will be just another way to read the list Allie traffic. It's read only. Allie and Leif time lag tag team. Allie's in, I'm out. See you all tomorrow! grin -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Jack Morrison, [JM] wrote: JM Could it be that the newsgroup (the one that will mirror tbudl) JM hasn't actually been created yet? ,- / Marck in his initial message announcing plans \ | As such, we (the mods) are giving notice that we intend to enable | the GMane feed on Wednesday. `- I suggest reading the entire thread. Most if not all queries are already answered. -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Jack Morrison, [JM] wrote: JM The application requests the following info: That application is for us who wish to mirror the list traffic and not for you. :) All you have to do is point your newsserver to news.gmane.org, download the list of groups there, find the list you wish to subscribe to and go. However, alas, we haven't yet subscribed the lists since we found it best to give fair notice so that final objections and queries may be addressed. -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Marck D Pearlstone wrote: As such, we (the mods) are giving notice that we intend to enable the GMane feed on Wednesday. That still gives you folks 2 days to either brace yourselves, object strongly or look forward with eager anticipation. My reaction isn't exactly any of those things, but I do have concerns. Since I won't use GMane, I see no benefit to me personally and perhaps a few drawbacks. My biggest concern is that it will encourage more people to add the X-No-Archive: Yes header, decreasing the usefulness of even the web archive. Also, rational or not, the list will undoubtedly lose some posters. Perhaps we will gain others through GMane, but my gut tells me it will be a net loss. And, I'm not convinced people's fears are completely irrational. For example, it appears that GMane only encrypts the domain part of the address. For my posts the domain is available from the Message-Id. So, all the parts are there in the clear and some pretty trivial parsing could reassemble it. Whether this would be worthwhile for a spammer to attempt is certainly questionable, but it raises enough doubt in my mind about security to give me pause. I don't have the time or inclination to carefully consider the implications of their security model. Who knows what I'm missing? -- George Using TB! 2.04.7 on Windows XP Pro 5.1, Build 2600, Service Pack 1. Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: GMane - here we come
Hello Leif, On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:43:15 -0700 GMT (3/8/2004, 12:43 PM -0800 GMT), Leif Gregory wrote: LG 1. Once the above link is opened, hover your mouse cursor over the LGhyperlink in the FROM line. LG 2. Click the hyperlink in the FROM line to see the TMDA in action. That's pretty cool! -- Best regards, Dennis - The weight of repetition will overwhelm the facts - Hitler The Human Race proudly using The Bat! 2.04.7 Windows 2000 Professional 5.0.2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
George Mitchell, [GM] wrote: GM Also, rational or not, the list will undoubtedly lose some GM posters. Perhaps we will gain others through GMane, but my gut GM tells me it will be a net loss. Perhaps this may have happened if we had just informed the group, without prior discussion that the lists were mirrored. OTOH, we decided to take a different route. We first did our research and assessed GMane's security ourselves since we don't exactly enjoy being spammed; neither do we wish to have our membership end up being spammed on account of our actions. The 3 moderators here all agreed that GMane is secure enough for what we wish to do. We then made the list know a week ago that we were thinking about doing this. A long discussion ensued where all concerns were aired. No concern stood up to technical clarification and examination of the facts concerning GMane's security model. After a week, no one posted a convincing reason to hold GMane's security at reasonable fault, so we decided to go ahead. *Still*, we decided to tread cautiously by making an announcement 48 hours before implementation. The intention here was to make any last minute views/issues be heard and clarified. After all of this, I really doubt there'll be a net loss. I do think that some of the negative reaction is understandable. However, the persistence after examining the facts is interesting and IMO irrational, especially when considering the fact that our addresses are not currently fully secure. A spammer can easily subscribe to this list to get our addresses. It's either that you wish for your address to be absolutely secure or not. If you care so much about your address why use it on this list at all? GM And, I'm not convinced people's fears are completely irrational. I actually think they are. Gmane is able to secure your addresses better than they are currently secured. Hence the irrationality behind the concern. After careful reading of how these security measures work, there's really nothing to have reasonable doubts about. GM For example, it appears that GMane only encrypts the domain part GM of the address. When viewing the news via the web interface, yes. Like Yahoogroups, it obfuscates the address, i.e., replacing the domain part of the address with dots. Many here are on Yahoo groups and have no problem with Yahoo's security where their addresses are concerned. As a result, if there's a concern when GMane uses the same system for their web interface, this perplexes me. GM For my posts the domain is available from the Message-Id. So, all GM the parts are there in the clear and some pretty trivial parsing GM could reassemble it. For messages downloaded with a newsreader, all addresses in headers will be encrypted. This is different from simple obfuscation that you see via the web interface. This is all documented on www.gmane.org GM Whether this would be worthwhile for a spammer to attempt is GM certainly questionable, Indeed!! Don't you think it would be easier to just subscribe to this list for a while and then harvest the addresses. Spammers don't seem to find that simple exercise worth their while. GM but it raises enough doubt in my mind about security to give me GM pause. Well, of course. No one is saying it shouldn't. It raised my concerns as well. After investigating, I'm no longer concerned. GM I don't have the time or inclination to carefully consider the GM implications of their security model. Who knows what I'm missing? True. It's up to you to decide what you wish to do. -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Jack Morrison, [JM] wrote: Just subscribe to one of the lists there and inspect a few of the messages. In that way, you'll see it so you can believe it or not. :) JM I'm doing just that, Allie, I was inaccurate there. Address encryption is optional on a list mailing list to GMane subscription or a mailing list subscriber basis. Not all lists there uses the address encryption feature. Howerver, we certainly will be. JM but I really won't know if the encryption is really working for JM awhile yet. JM I wouldn't expect to get spam from the very get-go. No. This is unlikely. -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Jack Morrison, [JM] wrote: JM I'm sorry, Allie, I guess I wasn't clear. JM I'd like the information for *my* own purposes, Ah, I see. :) JM I would just like for someone to tell me what Gmane is wanting when JM they ask for the mail list's *address,* if you happen to know. They just wish to know the mailing list address. What address do you post to when posting to the mailing list. In the case of tbudl, you'd need to enter [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Jack Morrison, [JM] wrote: JM Okay, I'm still confused. JM I have already subscribed to a couple of Gmane lists(just to read JM them), but I haven't tried to post to them yet. JM When (or how) do I get a chance to set this NOMAIL feature? JM And what exactly does the NOMAIL feature mean? That you can't post by JM e-mail? The NOMAIL switch is one for your subscription for this mailing list. It set's your subscription to no mail delivery for you. You'll no longer receive copies of the list traffic. GMane will host the list traffic in a read only state. You'll be able to use a news reader to read the list traffic. However, you'll not be able to post to the server. If you wish to participate in discussions you'll still need a mailing list subscription to TBUDL. If you wish to read via only NNTP, then you can avoid getting list traffic sent to you by mail, by setting your subscription to NOMAIL. See the link http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html for more information on how to adjust your subscription. JM For example, according to a previous message, someone implied that I JM will be able to both read and post messages to the Gmane newsgroup JM with, say, Agent(or any newsreader, for that matter) -- provided I JM haven't opted for NOMAIL, etc. To post with Agent, you'll need a list subscription. You'll also need to address your messages to the list address and make sure that your From address is your subscription address.. JM The thought of not even needing The Bat! anymore to post or read JM messages to tbudl is a little strange, of course, but... You can leave things as they are now. You don't have to change to NNTP if you don't wish to. It's just there as an alternative means for reading list traffic since we've gotten requests for this many times in the past. We've been late on this since the security wasn't up to it prior to now. -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come
Jack Morrison, [JM] wrote: JM And I would hit the reply button on my newsreader and send them to the JM same place, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? Yes. JM Or to this yet-to-be-named newsgroup's address? No. We'll be making this not possible. We still wish list traffic to come via list subscriptions only. You'll also need to address your messages to the list address and make sure that your From address is your subscription address.. JM Here's where it's getting confusing again. JM To [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? Yes. JM Or to this yet-to-be-named newsgroup's address? No. JM And the From address is what it already is(the address I use here)? Yes. JM The concept is starting to grow on me, Allie. Goody. :) JM But, like they always say, the proof is in the pudding. Yup! I just tried the server and it's pretty quick too. -- -= Allie Martin =- | List Moderator PGPKeys: http://key.ac-martin.com Using TB! v2.04.7 on WinXP Pro (SP1) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Account Log Doesn't Update After an Error
Hi Terry, I had a problem once with the logs. See http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg69091.html for a detailed explanation. My guess is that the problem was a corrupted file, and not a TB! problem per se. It seems as if the info is still being written to the log file, but it's not saving correctly because of the corruption. When I had the problem, I checked the file date modified time for the log file and the time indicated that they were being updated, but nothing new was in the files. I don't know how TB! could detect corruption in the log files unless it would somehow go back and check what it had just written to see if it was saved. That could be the problem. The thought that it may be due to the logfile being corrupted never entered my head. If it happens again, I will check the modified date of the logfile itself. This is the first only time I've noticed this problem in the 2-3 years I've been using The Bat! Regards, Chris Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
GMane - here we come
Hi T'Buddlers, Well, having asked for objections to the idea of reflecting the TB lists to GMane to provide access to the list in a News format, we haven't received any that stood up to scrutiny. As such, we (the mods) are giving notice that we intend to enable the GMane feed on Wednesday. That still gives you folks 2 days to either brace yourselves, object strongly or look forward with eager anticipation. One thing that we feel duty bound to do here is to provide you with clear instructions for the use of the X-No-Archive header for those that *really* don't want their posts echoed to this pretty well spam-safe news feed. 1). Open Option | Preferences and click on Message list | Message headers (http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/header-edit.gif) 2). Click on Add and enter the details as shown here: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/x-no-archive.gif 3). In your TB-list reply template, add the following: %SetHeader(X-No-Archive,Yes)%- That should do it. -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v2.04.7 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1 ' pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: GMane - here we come PLEASE READ
Hello Allie, Monday, March 8, 2004, 1:21:45 PM, you wrote: Allie You don't. List traffic will still reach your inbox unless you Allie set your subscription to NOMAIL. Ok, just to make this clear to everyone. *** The TB lists *ARE NOT* going away. *** If you like getting the TB lists via the way you do right now, then there is absolutely nothing you need to do. We are just providing another way for people to read TB lists via GMane NNTP. If you want to use NNTP to get TB list traffic, then you'll need to do some things. -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.04.4 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
