Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

   things
> like
> this
> are
> possible.
>  If
>they
>were
>working
>   with
>   pure
>   ASCII  you   then would
>as   suggestI have
>  to
>type
>each
> space.  Clearly I am not.  Again, you missed the entire point that how the
> data is represented internally has no bearing on the limitations of the medium
> upon output.  Because of this how the /HELL/ do you know that it would be a
> complete rewrite from the ground up?  Do you know what type of editor they are
> using, HMM?  Have you seen the code?  Last I checked TB! was not distributed
> under any of the open source licenses and the code wasn't distributed outside
> of RITLABS.  It is possible you've seen it but somehow I seriously doubt it.
> 
> Now, do yourself a favor, shut-up and read this message at least twice.
> Call your mother over and have her help you with the big words and make sure
> you understand /EXACTLY/ what I wrote before you go replying and putting more
> words in my mouth that I didn't place there.  If you don't you and I /will/
> have words.  Clear?
> 
> [*] This message filtered through Counselor MacKay's naughty word filter.
> 
> -- 
>  Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
>  ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
> -----------+-
> 
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> 



With Best Regards,
Alexander V. Kiselev,
MD, St.Petersburg State University, Physics Faculty,
Dept. of Higher Math. and Math. Physics.
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Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 14:48, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?":

> Mistake #1.  You're thinking that there are only lines.  I see only data
> which can be represented any number of ways.  Let's just say that just
> because the limitation exists when transmitting means that the limitation
> exists when creating.  If that were the case, we would not have free caret
> mode since until I moved my cursor down and typed this word the spaces
> preceding this didn't exist.  Therefore it is clear that TB! is able to
> represent the data in a manner, internally, which does defy the limitations
> of the transmit medium and, upon sending, can translate down to that >
> medium. 

Mistake #1 on your side: you think plain ASCII is a limitation of some 
(unknown to me) sort, whereas _I_ think ASCII is a _power_, a well-thought 
standard that those guys who invented "soft returns" and things alike (read: 
M$ with its Word and heaps of others) just plain spoiled. Well, it follows that 
_your_ choice is Word's way of doing things, despite your dislike towards M$. 
That's your choice, but let me think differently. There's _nothing_ in word-
processing world that cannot be done (and done _better_) with just plain 
ASCII. Wanna examples? TeX for typesetting, HTML for web publishing. _No_ 
need in RTF, DOC, XLS, etc., etc., etc., etc...  

I'd prefer the editor NOT to use those soft returns at all. I do not use soft 
returns in my work. I do not use Word and wordprocessors alike. And I'm still 
alive, and my health is perfect;-)

> In short, there is not a Mmmmkaying thing stopping TB from having soft and
> hard breaks when editing which is the /only/ time our formatting comes into
> play.

Did you read what I had written? Was my English unclear? I said that this is a 
matter of the quantities of programming work needed to implement it this or 
that way.

> > But _if_ we consider the autoformat feature, we immediately need to
> > consider, how exactly should TB's editor decide, which block of text _is_ a
> > paragraph and which isn't.
> 
> Simple.  The block which is a paragraph is the one defined with a hard CR
> and the one that is not is defined with a soft CR.  How TB! defines those is
> up to the internal logic which is, as I demonstrated, not limited to the logic
> of the transmit medium.

Then algorithms are necessary that convert one form to another and vice 
versa. The implementation of the "soft-hard" way of editing from the ground 
up. In short, you want the editor to be rewritten...


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If it moves, salute it; if it doesn't move, pick it up;
  if you can't pick it up, paint it.

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Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 14:57, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?":

> > Allie, will you please understand that within plain/text medium there is
> > no way for the program to distinguish between _your_ hard returns and
> > the hard  returns inserted by the line-wrapping algorithm?
> 
> Pardon my slowness for making that erroneous suggestion. :-/
> 
> The real reason for my response here is that you didn't really mention
> whether or not my proposed problems with your solution to the
> auto-formatting issues are equally as erroneous and lacking in
> understanding, or are they in fact valid?

Allie, no personal offence, please! I didn't mean to insult you, just wanted to 
stress the idea that if we stay on the grounds of _plain_text_ medium, we need 
to take into account that there is _no_ paragraph concept applicable to this 
medium. The document consists of _lines_, not paragraphs. 

There exist a number of ideas as to how resolve this problem. If anybody 
cares to read about it, and (more interesting) to read about it from the 
viewpoint of software developer, I'm again suggesting that you read the 
Wrapping section of the online help for WinEdt 5.1 (www.winedt.com).

I basically do not understand the common gripes about the autowrap vs. 
autoformat issues which from time to time get posted to this list. I don't think 
it's too hard to hit Alt-J or whatever from time to time. But _if_ we consider the 
autoformat feature, we immediately need to consider, how exactly should TB's 
editor decide, which block of text _is_ a paragraph and which isn't.

In my previous message I suggested that the indented line should be 
considered as the paragraph _boundary_, note further that I suggested this 
only as a quick fix to what we have right now (see also below). This would 
mean the following: if I have the text formatted this way:

  some text

then start typing immediately after the word "text" above, the "autoformat" _is_ 
active all right (again, download and install WinEdt to understand what I mean: 
this program can be configured to behave exactly this way!). This means that 
eventually I get:

  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text

Now look further. _If_ I now place my cursor this way:


  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text

and start typing, the new input _is_not_ considered as the part of the "some 
text" paragraph, since indented line is considered as a paragraph break. This 
means that the text I type in is considered a _separate_ paragraph and 
autowrapped as such.

If OTOH I place my cursor as shown below:

  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
some text
  

the new input _again_ is NOT wrapped "into" the "some text" paragraph, since 
the next line after is again indented.

Finally, as the only different possibility, I place the cursor as shown below:

  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
some text


_then_ the new input is still considered the part of the "some text" paragraph 
and wrapped into it, as in:

  some text some text some text some text some text some text some text some 
text some text some text some text some text some text some text some text 
some text 

What part of it you don't like?;-) Again, note that the list of characters that 
mark the "paragraph break" when located at the beginning of the line may be 
made configurable (again, as in WinEdt), which would extend the functionality 
even further. Note also, that given the current implementation of autowrap it 
should be quite simple (and require minor extra coding) to re-implement it the 
way I proposed above.

Finally, I have to admit that if we "lift" the plain-text condition, the whole 
problem could be considered from absolutely different viewpoint. For example, 
the programmers can choose whatever hex string they like to act as a 
"linebreak" and to leave "hard" linebreak for the user. This is the way Word 
works, for example. Note two things: 
1. This would require major changes in the source code of the program and is 
therefore not the good thing to implement given the fact that version 2 is said 
to be rolled out by the end of May;
2. Having worked alot with WinEdt (see above), I myself do find the way to 
determine the paragraph breaks even _better_ then the way Word and the 
other word processors exploits; at least this pure-ASCII way of doing things is 
_much_ more flexible and configurable from the user's viewpoint. Yes, it 
requires some time to understand how it works, but then it works as smoothly 
as

Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 19:40, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: auto-format is too robotic isn'":


> My suggestion would be, never to cancel hard returns. This should solve
> everything.

Allie, will you please understand that within plain/text medium there is no way 
for the program to distinguish between _your_ hard returns and the hard 
returns inserted by the line-wrapping algorithm?

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of an
  oncoming train.

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 7:51, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> There was also this great guy called Bill Gates who put everything that
> people wanted into a large, monolithic application.  It is now unwieldy,
> bloated, difficult to use and understand.

That's true. 

> The whole reason I pointed out that there were other applications that
> could poll multiple POP accounts into a single account is to stress that not
> every package should implement every neat feature or combine everything into
> one.  *I* use TB! because it doesn't combine everything into one single
> account.  In fact it is one of only /two/ mailers that I know of (of over 30+
> I've personally used in the past decade or so) which doesn't do that.  I find
> that to be a very powerful feature and would prefer not to have the bloat of
> the "alternative" programmed in when there are several other decent mailers
> available that do just that very think.  I believe it is Alex who uses Pegasus
> mail and could best explain how nice that package is despite my personal
> distaste for it based on interface and underlying logic.

I never said Pegasus is so nice and all that, otherwise I would have never 
subscribed to TBUDL;-) OTOH, Pegasus _does_ support some useful features 
that TB doesn't yet, this is the point I've made here on numerous occasions. 
Besides, Pegasus does support separate accounts, so leave it alone, please.

As for the polling the traffic from more then one account into one TB's 
account, this has been discussed more then once here and despite Steve's 
dislike towards this idea I believe the majority has come to a conclusion that 
under _certain_ circumstances this might come in handy.

Finally, another idea finally emerged, and AFAIK RIT labs are going to 
implement it for ver. 2. That's the idea of user-defined "virtual" folders that are 
to contain "links" to messages stored physically in their respective 
accounts/folders. Much like what happens currently if you double-click a 
message in the Mail Ticker. Another example is the TEMP panel of DOS 
Navigator or FAR manager, if you know what I'm talking about.

If implemented this way, there will be no need to physically poll the messages 
from, say, Account2 into the folder system of Account1 as some e-mail clients 
work nowadays, since it will be possible to mimick this functionality in an 
intuitive way exploiting the virtual folders.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The trouble with most jobs is the resemblance to being in a
  sled dog team: No one gets a change of scenery, except the
  lead dog.

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 7:48, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> > Have you thought of using the 'total' and 'total unread' columns in the
> > message list? It can easily tell you how many messages are in each thread
> > and how many messages in each thread are unread. You can therefore get the
> > exact information that you need instead of an estimate.
> 
> You're assuming he's in threaded mode.  I'm guessing as a PMMail user he
> is not.  As a mutt user myself I find TB!'s threaded mode annoying at best so,
> as an ex-PMMail user I'm most certainly not in that mode.  :)

Nah, I don't think TB's threading is so bad. It could be made much better when 
the _usability_ is concerned, but technically it's implemented very well (of 
course I only refer to 1.42 betas, since it's been almost corrupted in 1.41 and 
earlier due to the limitations of the message base format used). But as a 
Pegasus user (see other Steve's message;-)) I'm much accustomed to having 
advanced functionality without nice and intuitive GUI over it, so I myself do 
consider TB's threading a good thing (having in mind that Pegasus does not 
and never will support threading;-))

> > wanting the program to be honed to do exactly what one wants, especially
> > when all users needs and tastes are pretty different.
> 
> *whistles innocently in the background.*

Really? then how will you explain that you've just written 2 messages here 
within 3 minutes or so?;-))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?

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Re: auto-format is too robotic isn't it?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 18:05, Randy Robinson wrote
about "Re: auto-format is too robotic isn'":

> You've found the one thing I hate about TheBat! It's the best
> program around, but I guess you can't have everything! It has a
> very strange idea of what autoformatting is. I wanted
> autoformatting really bad but when they came out with it, I sadly
> had to turn it off. Couldn't stand the way they implemented it.

Well, it's of course less then perfect, but it can be _easily_ fixed (at least, 
temporarily). The quick fix should be this one: "do not autoformat indented 
lines plus never remove the spaces in the beginning of any line". That's all;-) If 
there are enough voices for this change here, I'll bet Stef and Max will do you 
the favour quickly;-))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  On a clear disk you can seek forever

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 May 00, at 7:34, Stephen wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> > Flexibility? I thread some of my view folder message listing while I keep
> > the mail list unthreaded. If there was only one list then I couldn't do
> > this.
> 

> So I think the title bar should at least say something like -
> 
> View Folder Bat of ServNet   Sorted by Receive Time (Ascending)

Great idea! I'd add to this: "Show the Message List when using folder view in 
the separate window by default", since otherwise, as the practice shows, 
some users do not see this possibility at all;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Anything is good and useful if it's made of chocolate.

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Re: date-time formatting

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 15:38, Pim Slim wrote
about "date-time formatting":

> Hoi TBUDL-readers,

Your greeting line (specifically the first word of it) sounds a bit... hmmm... 
eccentric for the Russian ear;-) Or was it intended to sound this way?

>   In my message list the date-time format used in 'created' and 'received'
>   looks like this: 30 apr 2000, 18:19.
>   Is there a way of changing this in e.g. 30-4-00, 18:19 or are these
>   settings fixed?

Unfortunately, there's no way to change it. I'd sure wish there existed some 
way to make it shorter. In particular, the four-digit year format here could be 
sacrificed for something shorter. Moreover, I'd prefer the date-time to be in 
English rather then in Russian it is currently under the Russian version of 
Windows, since I'm much more accustomed to, say, "1 may 2000" then to 
"1 ÍÁÊ 2000". Besides, the latter variant is grammatically wrong (thanks to 
M$;-)), it should have been "1 ÍÁÑ 2000" anyway.

AFAIK, this have been requested in the past, but sofar nothing's changed. 
Maybe in version 2?;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Don't eat yellow snow!

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 16:22, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> >>>   %TO=""%TO="%OFROMNAME on TBUDL<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
> 
> >> Hahaaa! Thanks! It works! =B-D
> 
> > Gee, and a while ago when I wrote that folder templates did it you
> > replied that it didn't have anything to do with what you wanted.
> > *sigh*
> 
> To be fair, his answer formed a double negative:
> 
> >>  What part of that does not coincide with what he wants?
>^^^
> > Nothing. :-9
> 
> i.e. everything coincided.

To be frank, I believe _everybody_ here understood it right from the first 
glance, _except_ for the native English-speakers (Marck, Allie and Steve);-))) 


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Trouble strikes in series of threes, but when working around
  the house the next job after a series of three is not
  the fourth job -- it's the start of a brand new series of three.

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 9:24, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> > Finally, the sad fact that _you_ find no use for the separate message list 
> > doesn't mean _others_ don't need it. I find it pretty cool to be able to 
>efficiently 
> > work with one and the same folder sorted differently.
> 
> This isn't implemented too well. I can't sort the message list for the
> view folder window for separate folders. The sort order is the same used
> for all folders.
> 
> Take for example. I wish to display the TBUDL view folder list in thread
> mode but not for other folders. I can't seem to do this. If I set the view
> folder for TBUDL to threading, all other folders view folder message lists
> do the same thing. Or am I missing something?

Apparently, yes. I've just tested it (beta/20) with two folders: Inbox and Sent. 
Opening the folder view for Inbox gives threaded view, whereas the same 
operation for Sent gives the no-threaded view?!? 

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  When you are sure you're right, you have a moral duty to
  impose your will upon anyone who disagrees with you.

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 9:18, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> > Nah, I don't like this idea. Suppose I'm working with the separate folder view 
> > (separate window), and now I want to look at yet another message _in the 
> > same_ folder. Now I just go to the three-pane view, open the message I was 
> > after and work with it, the separate window staying where it was left. How will I 
> > be supposed to achieve the same if the cursor movements were 
> > synchronized? And yet another thing. Now you can open _more_then_one_ 
> > separate view window for the same folder. Do you really suggest that the 
> > cursor movement in all these is synchronized? Then what's the hell's sense of 
> > having the ability to open, say, 10 instances of the same folder in separate 
> > windows??? If you synchronize them all, it will be absolutely unusable IMHO.
> 
> Valid points indeed. :-)  It's good to know the methods behind the
> "apparent"  madness. 

Yeah, this "apparent madness" would become even less "apparent"  if 
one could drag'n'drop messages _between_ the different windows of TB. 
Usually this stuff is implemented by allowing to "drop" the dragged object to 
the button of the corresponding window in the taskbar. I'd say this method is 
much faster and more visually intuitive then the currently implemented (via the 
menus or the context menu). The latter makes me sick;-) 

Besides, I'd sure wish to be able to attach the messages like the normal files, 
and this could be implemented the same way: dragging the message from 
whatever different place onto the message composer button on the task bar. 
Finally, this could be made to support the wish I've heard on TBUDL lately: to 
include the text of any message into the text of the currently-composed one 
using drag'n'drop.

This kind of functionality can be considered as my own "favourite peeve";-))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax
  is not having to pay income tax.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 16:54, Cristian Secara wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> Next is *not* intuitive.
> When I am saying "what's next ?" I mean what's new. 

What is your native language? I'm just curious, since when _I_ say "what's 
next?" (in Russian: þÔÏ ÄÁÌØÛÅ?), _I_ usually mean "And what will I get from 
this stuff? What the results will be?". That kind of meaning. Another meaning 
(but then the grammar will change a bit) is "What follows this stuff?". This (in 
the case of TB's toolbar;-)) will mean "What's written in the next message 
down the message list?" which exactly corresponds to what I get in TB.

> This "next" would forces me to keep the list descending, and such thing
> is out of question.

Don't you think this is really a minor thing? It's _definitely_ not a bug, and 
therefore I'd suggest to stop bothering the fellow listmembers with all this stuff.

> Yes, now I know that (see my previous message in response to
> Alexander).
> And this is *not* what I want :(

What _exactly_ do you want then?

> ... and which folder elements becomes so heavily loaded, I have to
> switch it immediately back off.
> The only reason I open a message in a new window, is to view as much
> text as possible at a glance. I like more the PMMail (or Outlook
> Express) approach, in which the main window keeps track of the cursor
> over the message list, cursor that I can see it moving somewhere on
> other (not focussed) layer on the desktop.

See my two other messages to the list. I gave the reasoning which makes me 
think that the current behaviour is _much_ better then the way to work 
suggested by you and Allie Martin.

Further, I'm accustomed to this type of behaviour with Pegasus Mail and must 
say it's really time saving taking into account the way I work with my mail. 

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  When you are sure you're right, you have a moral duty to
  impose your will upon anyone who disagrees with you.

--- 
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0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 8:40, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> >  And, again, how can I keep them synchronized (at least the
> > cursor movement) ?
> 
> This is a pet peeve of mine. The cursor movement should be synchronised
> and would make you a lot more comfortable, not having to use two message
> lists.

Nah, I don't like this idea. Suppose I'm working with the separate folder view 
(separate window), and now I want to look at yet another message _in the 
same_ folder. Now I just go to the three-pane view, open the message I was 
after and work with it, the separate window staying where it was left. How will I 
be supposed to achieve the same if the cursor movements were 
synchronized? And yet another thing. Now you can open _more_then_one_ 
separate view window for the same folder. Do you really suggest that the 
cursor movement in all these is synchronized? Then what's the hell's sense of 
having the ability to open, say, 10 instances of the same folder in separate 
windows??? If you synchronize them all, it will be absolutely unusable IMHO.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are
  so ingenious.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 16:17, Cristian Secara wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":

> >Cristian, I think you miss the following point: when you browse the messages 
> >in a _separate_ window, there is a _hidden_ (by default) message list there 
> >(you need to tick View-->Message List in the menus of this window to see it) 
> >which has it's _own_ sorting order and the settings alike, which is thus 
> >different from the sorting order used in the default three-pane view (main 
> >window of the program).
> 
> Yes, that's true. Hm, strange approach ... it works, but ... is there any way
> for synchronizing the two message lists ? At least the movement of the blue
> cursor bar ? I find no real use of this hidden message list, as it occupies a
> lot of space from the window. The window becomes like the preview pane - in
> fact this is the reason I opened the message separately, to have more space. 

I don't see your point. What resolution are you working at? It's a common 
point that TB is kinda tricky to use on 640x480 screens, and even 800x600 
isn't high enough usually;-( But at higher resolutions one has quite enough 
space to have (at least, tiny) message list in the separate folder-view window. 
Do you realize that the message list can be resized? You can make it much 
smaller (I usually have it set to 5 or 6 messages fit in;-))

As for the synchronization you're speaking about, I see no sense in it, since 
the separate folder window is usually (almost) maximized here, and I don't see 
the main window of the program anyway unless I close the separate one;-)

Finally, the sad fact that _you_ find no use for the separate message list 
doesn't mean _others_ don't need it. I find it pretty cool to be able to efficiently 
work with one and the same folder sorted differently.

> Yes, I understand now. But I go back and say that the naming of that toolbar
> button is unhappy chosen. In the new context, "next" means next only in some
> circumstances, "below" (or "down") means below (or down) at anytime, no
> matter the sort order / ascending / descending / whatever. 

That's a question of (English) terminology, so I cannot comment it further. All I 
can say is that for _me_ (and I'm a Russian-speaker) it seems to be pretty 
logical in it's current state. It might seem highly illogical for the people that 
write from the bottom up, but for the people writing from the top down and 
from the left to right "Next" is usually equivalent to "One line down" and 
"Previous" -- to "One line up";-). Taken in it's context, a "message" is 
equivalent to "a line" in the message list (_any_ message list), and hence "next 
message" is the same thing as "next line of the message list".

> Hm ... what's the use for keeping those message lists separately each
> other ?

A lot of them;-) In the default three-pane view I usually have the messages 
unthreaded and sorted by date (newer ones to the top of the folder), with only 
5 columns visible: From, Subject, Date sent, Attachments, Read (this is to 
save the screen real estate for the "Folders" pane, of course). At the same 
time, in the "separate" folder windows I usually thread by references and have 
much more columns visible (with much less space dedicated to Subject and 
>From columns). Since the two message lists are independent from each other, 
I get all the benefits from the both approachs.

> And, again, how can I keep them synchronized (at least the cursor
> movement) ?

No way. And again: WHY do you want them to be synchronized??? 

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Double your drive space! Delete Windows!

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 13:31, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote
about "Re[2]: TB! WishList":

> > Enable Auto-Format. When allied with Auto-Wrap, that's what it does.
> 
> Nope, it doesn't. At least not the way it should. Try it. Type a line
> with less chars than the wrap limit. Press RETURN. Type something. Be
> annoyed. :-)

Press RETURN _twice_ and don't be annoyed;-)

> Additional remark after having read the "too robotic" thread: This
> behavior is hardly what it should be like. It is neither proper
> auto-wrap nor proper auto-format. :-(

And what? The Bat's editor is a bit spartan indeed, but the editor is by no 
means the greatest priority for a MUA...

> > Use  threading  by  reference  with  sort  by  time. That does the job
> > perfectly.
> 
> Ah, thanks!! Another problem solved ... well, perhaps. If you take a look at the
> attached screen grab - shouldn't the Re2 be connected with the Re?

See above. If the message doesn't have properly set referencing header 
fields, TB can do very little about it. Try threading by subject if you experience 
these problems all the time.

> > I don't like this one. It reeks of mangling, is fraught with potential
> > hazards  is  is  far  more  esoteric than is good for it as a concept.
> > Whenever  I  have had to do anything like this (and that's *extremely*
> > rare  -  4  times maybe in 5 years?) I have done the merge by hand and
> > not begrudged it.
> 
> Hmm. I have had a couple more occasions... but that's why I think
> optional is a good solution.
> BTW, right now here is such an occasion: Instead of replying to the
> arguments of each single person I would love to select all your
> replies, hit REPLY and go along editing and replying myself. :-)

Will be possible when ver.2 comes out (late May this year was the last 
guesstimate for the first betas I've heard).

> Which brings up an idea... is there something like Rexx on this
> platform? 

There exists Perl for win32. Take a look at www.perl.com. IMHO, Perl is more 
powerful then Rexx used to be (yeah, I've been using Rexx quite extensively in 
my own OS/2 days;-)). 

> So that I can write my own little scripts, put them in a menu item of any
> program supporting this, and make the program do what my script says? Such a
> "merge" script should be done in no time flat, provided TB! supports the
> "merge" command. 

TB ver. 2 is said to support scripting like this. Right now the only possibility of 
extending TB a bit is using GNU regexps which TB already supports. If you're 
unfamiliar with these possibilities, please take a look at the online help (English 
version of it).


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Never hit a man with glasses.  Use your fist!

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 7:26, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote
about "Re[2]: TB! WishList":

> a) Is it possible to change the order of folders in any account?

Alt-dragging. BTW, _this_ is covered in the online help;-)

> b) I have tried the "thread by reference" option. It doesn't really
> work that well, does it. I would prefer it very much to simply sort
> the files according to (optional field) and then according to (another
> optional field). This would save me the hastle of clicking through all
> the read mails in the thread before getting the new one. Yes, I am
> aware that for this there probably is a shortcut as well.

Threading "by reference" is pretty much a feature that should work _exactly_ 
as it does. It groups messages with respect to the the following header-fields:

Message-ID:
In-Reply-To:
References:

See RFCs for more on this subject. 

If you have many messages that don't have these header fields set properly, 
you should consider using threading "by subject", probably...

> 1) I get a mail from pal Joe Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

;-))) Joe Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> would be even better an example;-
)  


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Live within your income, even if you have to borrow to do so.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 6:43, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote
about "Re[2]: TB! WishList":

> > It's already there and is called "MIME forwarding". Have a look at Account 
> > options--> Templates--> Forwarding.
> 
> Indeed - never would have suspected it there in the first place but it
> is there. Doesn't really do what I meant but is a work-around.

It's a _poor_ workaround;-( Instead, this _ought_ to be a very powerful 
feature, IMHO. It's been proposed more then once that this functionality is 
extended quite a bit. If it only were an extra menus option "Forward using 
MIME"... And then, I'd love to be able to attach messages just like normal files, 
drag'n'dropping them onto the message editor or any other way. This way it 
would become possible to MIME-forward messages from _different_ folders, 
which's the thing I'm in habit of extensively using...

P.S. Anybody noticed that TB 1.42 betas is no longer capable of producing 
MIME digests?;-(

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  I'm easy to please as long as I get my way.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 1 May 00, at 13:05, Cristian Secara wrote
about "Re: TB! WishList":


Cristian, I think you miss the following point: when you browse the messages 
in a _separate_ window, there is a _hidden_ (by default) message list there 
(you need to tick View-->Message List in the menus of this window to see it) 
which has it's _own_ sorting order and the settings alike, which is thus 
different from the sorting order used in the default three-pane view (main 
window of the program).

If you switch the message list I'm speaking about ON, you'll see quite clearly 
that Next button opens the next message in the _current_ message list, that is, 
it opens the message right _below_ the current one in the list. The Previous 
button works vice versa.

This is quite logical IMHO, but a bit confusing when one has the Message List 
of the separate window closed (which's exactly so by default).

HTH;-)

> How is that ?
> For example, I read my own message, sent in The Bat! mailing list
> (opened in its own window).
> In order to view your replay, I have to press the "previous" toolbar
> button.
> 
> What kind of logic is that ?

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND - the fault is with reality

--- 
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fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! WishList

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 30 Apr 00, at 15:15, SyP wrote
about "Re[2]: TB! WishList":

> >> 7. Forward/Reply of multiple msg
> >> Merge them into one, attach all attachments in the forward mode to the
> >> merged text file. Add up all the subjects into one and put it into the
> >> subject field. Duplicate subjects should not be added in this line.
> >> Probably a good idea to make it optional too.
> 
> SL> Bad idea since the subjects can exceed the 1024 limit on headers.

Not really, since in this case the subject line can span through several lines, 
see RFCs. But in general I do agree that this proposition isn't good enough to 
be implemented. I'd better see the "multi-message" macros. Say, you've got N 
messages highlighted, press Reply, and %OSomething macros expand to 
arrays of the corresponding items for _all_ the messages selected;-) This way 
it would be possible to mimick the suggested behaviour, too;-) 

> I don't like this subject thing too, but a way to forward more than
> one message at once would be cool. (and exporting the messages to .MSG
> files and attaching doesn't count!)

It's already there and is called "MIME forwarding". Have a look at Account 
options--> Templates--> Forwarding.

The only problem is that this needs to be set on account level, whereas it 
_should_ be implemented on a per-message (sic!) level.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
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Re: OT: Modifications to English;-)

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi Gary!

On 17:24, 27 Apr 00, you wrote about
"Re: OT: Modifications to English;-)":

> BTW, I have installed SuSE and it installed without a hitch, except
> for my modem.  It will not find it.  I have an ISA PNP so it should. I
> have used many setserial commands to use COM3 and IRQ 5, but it will
> not work.  I have sent in my isapnp.conf file to tech support, and
> hopefully they can figure it out.  Otherwise, I like the flavor.  I
> will not use it if I cannot use the modem.  Maybe I will switch to
> Caldera if this fails.

Whaaa? COM3??? Don't you have a mouse on COM1, then?;-) I usually 
install modems on either COM2 or (even better) COM4...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  One out of four people is mentally ill. Check three friends;
  If they're O.K. it must be you.

--- 
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fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: OT: Modifications to English;-)

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 27 Apr 00, at 9:27, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: OT: Modifications to English;-)":

> > ZE DREAM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!  
> 
> Unfortunately, like most decent jokes it has been retold, poorly, with no
> credit to its lineage.  I do believe Mark Twain was the man who started this
> particular chuckle.

Thanks for the clarification, Steve. As you might have already guessed, I've 
read nothing from Twain _in_English_, never (only translated to Russian: this 
way I've read almost everything by MT), that's why I've never seen this joke (it 
wouldn't sound equally good in Russian, since we basically have a phonetical 
spelling here already and need not reform anything;-)).  

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Laziness is the mother of nine inventions out of ten.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: SOT: Graphics

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 27 Apr 00, at 17:43, Markus Gloede wrote
about "SOT: Graphics":

> Anybody know the rules for such references (ie. img src pointing to
> separately attached images)? For specific reasons I need to create
> HTM emails (yuk!) with properly embedded images (yukyuk!) and I don't
> want to use OE (yuk^3).

Just put img srcs "local", i.e. without any path, and attach the images 
themselves to the message -- this will do the trick.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  When things are going well, something will go wrong.
 Corollaries:
  1.When things just can't get any worse, they will.
  2.Anytime things appear to be going better, you
  have overlooked something.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
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fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Continuosly message downloading

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 27 Apr 00, at 9:54, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: Continuosly message downloading":

> > Have you told TB! to delete messages once downloaded?
> 
> Even with this unchecked, TB! keeps a tally of which messages have already
> been downloaded to prevent duplicated downloads. For a couple weeks I was
> deleting messages from the server after a few days instead of immediately
> and never really downloaded a message twice. I'm a bit perplexed by the
> problem.

Some really old servers do not support this mechanics altogether;-(

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Bagpipes (n): an octopus wearing a kilt.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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OT: Modifications to English;-)

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hello all,

Just decided to share this with you;-)

---8<

The European Commission have just announced an agreement whereby 
English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German, which was 
the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's government 
conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has 
accepted a five year phase in plan that would be known as "EuroEnglish".  

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil 
servants jump for joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k". This 
should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter.  

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the 
troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like 
"fotograf" 20% shorter.  

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to 
reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments 
will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent 
to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the 
language is disgraseful, and they should go away.  

By the 4th year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" 
and "w" with "v".  

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" 
and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After 
zis fifz year, vi vil hav a realy sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or 
difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand each ozer.  

ZE DREAM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!  

---8<--

P.S. I _like_ it!

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If you want it done right, forget Microsoft.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Kill filters for what? [faster message download]

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 27 Apr 00, at 14:36, Sir Jinx! wrote
about "Kill filters for what? [faster mess":

>OK,  in  order  to  skip  downloading  first  the  message
>headers, I have to set a kill filter, but for what? How do
>I do that?

In order to make downloading faster, you need to _get_rid_ of the kill filters, 
contrary to what you wrote above. Check you Sorting Office in TB, the section 
"kill filters" -- do you have anything there? If you do, kill 'em.

>With  great disgust I must notice that OE [4.72] downloads
>messages from server _much_ faster then TB!

I have no comments on this. From what I know, Pegasus downloads mail 
noticeably faster then LookOut, and TB is even faster then Pegasus. So I don't 
understand how LookOut can be faster then TB;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  To whom the gods destroy, they first teach Windows...

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Forwarding Filtered message plus file

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 25 Apr 00, at 22:41, Simon wrote
about "Forwarding Filtered message plus fi":

> I've got an on-line form setup that e-mails user input to my e-mail address.
> I am filtering the e-mails to a folder. I want to be able to auto-respond to
> the filtered message but to sending to a different single address including
> the contents of a text file.
> 
> Has anyone done this? Can you help with it?

A task for regexps, definitely. If you give more details, we'll be able to be more 
specific on how exactly the regexp should be constructed.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  My reality check just bounced.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Sentence on download.com

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 24 Apr 00, at 18:00, Paula Ford wrote
about "Re: Sentence on download.com":

> > ìÅÔÕÞÉÊ íÙÛ. ëÒÕÐÎÙÊ É Ô×ÅÒÄÙÊ. îÁÓÔÏÑÝÉÊ Ú×ÅÒØ!:-)
> 
> > Ah, pardon, that's in Russian and besides it doesn't sound the same in 
> > English... Something like
> 
> > The Bat. Large and rigid[1]. A real beast!
> 
> ROTFL!!! I think NOT! Does this conjure up the same associations in
> Russian as it does in English?

I really can only imagine what associations this arouse in the heads of the 
English-speakers, since I'm Russian for the first place, but if it's all about that 
old joke "Billy Gates got married, and in the next morning his wife told '_Now_ I 
do understand why you called your company _this_ way'" -- then YES;-)) 
Although in Russian I managed to put it... well, less obviously;-)

To put it seriously: it would be much better to make a humorous, eye-catching 
slogan, since otherwise it will be all the same as the competitors... And if you 
start playing around the name of the program (The Bat), it will very likely be 
misunderstood by some... You know, there are different languages in the 
world;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Sentence on download.com

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 24 Apr 00, at 16:07, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: Sentence on download.com":

> > ROTFL! I love it! Maybe RIT can actually use this one in another
> > context.
> 
> The Bat!. Power and ease for efficient e-mail management. :-)

ìÅÔÕÞÉÊ íÙÛ. ëÒÕÐÎÙÊ É Ô×ÅÒÄÙÊ. îÁÓÔÏÑÝÉÊ Ú×ÅÒØ!:-)

Ah, pardon, that's in Russian and besides it doesn't sound the same in 
English... Something like

The Bat. Large and rigid[1]. A real beast!

[1] Remember Micro(and)Soft?...


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  There are three ways to get something done: do it yourself,
  hire someone, or forbid your kids to do it.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Sentence on download.com

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 24 Apr 00, at 16:43, Paula Ford wrote
about "Re: Sentence on download.com":

> > BTW, what the heck is "imperative"?;-))
> 
> "the imperative mood or a verb form or verbal phrase expressing it"
> 
> Basically, the sentence should begin with a verb.

Ah, thanks;-))

> > Slogan needs to be far away from the real life;-) You'd better forget
> > about the reality at all...
> 
> C'mon, TB needs marketing and catchy slogans are part of marketing. RIT
> could use a few one-liners to use in different contexts.

Actually, after I lately looked at ratings in (Russian) shareware reviews/sites, 
I'd hesitate a real lot before implying that "TB needs marketing";-) Ratings like
TB -- >1000;
second highest -- approx. 250
(this has been taken from http://freeware.agava.ru, for the record, but the 
percentage is quite typical) are... hmmm... a bit uncommon for the programs 
that need yet MORE marketing;-) For the site cited above, TB's rating means 
that about 30% of visitors have been interested in The Bat!

OTOH, that might well be different in other parts of the world (i.e. non-Russian 
speaking parts of it;-)), I don't know really... 

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  In any household, junk accumulates to fill the space available
  for its storage.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Sentence on download.com

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 24 Apr 00, at 18:37, Tony Boom wrote
about "Re: Sentence on download.com":

> PF> We need something Madison Avenue punchy.
> 
>   How about?
> 
>   The Bat! email client. Everything else is just Guano!

Comparative advertisement...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Sentence on download.com

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 24 Apr 00, at 13:08, Paula Ford wrote
about "Re: Sentence on download.com":

> >> BTW, Paula offered:
> 
> Paula = Stan's occasional english-language helper.

;-) Yeah, we know;-)

> I didn't like them either and told Stan that I'm not good at slogans. I
> suggested he try the TBUDL, but you guys aren't doing any better.

Sure! Let's ask our beloved Billy, he's pretty good in making slogans (if only 
his gang were this good in programming, too;-))

> As Stan said, it needs to begin with imperative.

BTW, what the heck is "imperative"?;-))

>Manage multiple accounts intelligently with this flexible client?

Slogan needs to be far away from the real life;-) You'd better forget about the 
reality at all...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  A 100% right of return both ways.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Printing of quoted text in bold?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 22 Apr 00, at 19:08, Jan-Arild LÛkstad wrote
about "Printing of quoted text in bold?":

> Several people, on some of the mailing lists I'm on, have the "nasty
> habit" of inserting a space in front of the quote character. The
> result of this is that the text doesn't print in bold as I have chosen
> in the font layout in TB! My printer is a B&W Laser, so the color
> options doesn't help me much :)
> Anything I can do about this in TB!?

I'm afraid, not. At least I can't think of something more or less appropriate 
right now...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Re-Sending Messages

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 22 Apr 00, at 18:56, System Admin wrote
about "Re-Sending Messages":

> Also am I right that there is still no proper backup method, apart
> from copying the whole directory and exporting the registry key ? If I
> am will there ever be a proper export/backup method ?

Proper export method is exporting the messages to "Unix MBX" format. Proper 
backuping method is what you said above, I don't personally see any 
necessity in something more then that.

> Also, lastly :) Is there a way to save an attachment with the message
> so that even if the attachment file is deleted off the pc, it stays within the
> body of a message as it does in Outlook ?

"Store the attachments in message bodies" checkbox in Account properties. 

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If you put a spoonful of wine in a barrel full
  of sewage you get sewage. If you put a spoonful of
  sewage into a barrel full of wine you still get sewage.
   --- Law of Entropy

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: 1.42?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 21 Apr 00, at 1:00, Dirk Heiser wrote
about "Re: 1.42?":

> On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 01:57:01 +0400, you wrote:
> AVK> Why? This is quite simple indeed: TB is capable of deleting attachment from
> AVK> messages, right? Further, the attached MSG file is just a valid RFC822
>^
> 
> AFAIK NO, the Bat! can only delete attachments if you store this not in
> message bodys.

Right, but we were talking about the case when the attachments are 
separated. Well, I understand that when the attachments are stored in bodies 
it's technically rather tricky to enable their deletion...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Don't let school interfere with your education.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: OT: spaces after. (was: Word wrap and paragraph markers)

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Apr 00, at 15:28, Steve Lamb wrote
about "OT: spaces after. ":

> Got into the habit of hitting two spaces after hard stops a good 10+ years
> ago.  It is 2nd nature now.

Actually, it's the standard of US/British typesetting also;-) Take any book from 
your bookshelve and measure the spaces (of course, the book typeset in 
Word will not do;-)). It's not doublespace that is used after the period, but it's 
noticeably larger then the spacing between the words in the sentence. I don't 
know the exact multiplier;-(

> > P.S. The question doesn't apply to those here using TeX as I do. That is, TeX
> > does this trick automatically, provided that the \frenchspacing option is set 
> > (which is the default).
> 
> IIRC some editors also have the option to include the double space after a
> hard stop if configured to do so.  I think joe can do it, but don't quote me
> on that since it has been about a year since I've used joe in any serious
> capacity.

In a way, I don't need this at all, since TeX will insert the correctly measured 
enlarged space after the period whatever number of spaces are there in my 
input file (i.e. in the editor;-)). It was just the practice that interested me;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Two wrongs don't make a right.  Try three.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: 1.42?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Apr 00, at 15:50, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: 1.42?":

> > Nope, I don't like the way it works;-( Besides, it's a bit buggy: try
> > clicking either of the buttons "delete and move" when browsing MIME
> > digest;-)
> 
> I've noted as well that TB! still treats MIME digest messages as
> attachments that are stored in the attachments directory and this is most
> likely why the delete and move commands via the virtual folder message
> list do not work as they should.

Why? This is quite simple indeed: TB is capable of deleting attachment from 
messages, right? Further, the attached MSG file is just a valid RFC822 
message, so theoretically on "move" from MIME digest TB should do the 
following:
1. Import the specified message file to the specified folder;
2. Delete the corresponding attachment from the original digest message.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Letters and E-mails don't blush...

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Word wrap and paragraph markers

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Apr 00, at 14:39, Januk Aggarwal wrote
about "Re: Word wrap and paragraph markers":

> Don't worry, you're not the only one in that minority.  I'll stick
>  with you.  If you want to reformat a paragraph, I've found that all I
>  need to do is select the lines I want to reformat and hit alt-L.
>  Then it turns out very close to what I want.  The only thing I wish
>  TB would preserve is my double spaces between sentences.  Oh well,
>  can't have everything.

Pardon me for off-topic question, but I find that at least two of you are in the 
habit of inserting two spaces after the dot. I'm just curious, how do you do it in 
Word and wordprocessors like that? Manually?;-) I cannot but think this is the 
most awkward thing to do. 

P.S. The question doesn't apply to those here using TeX as I do. That is, TeX 
does this trick automatically, provided that the \frenchspacing option is set 
(which is the default). Actually, I do like this style of typesetting, although 
AFAIK in Russian typesetting practice there exists no rule dealing with this, 
i.e. both french spacing and the non-french spacing are all right.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  One cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs -- but it is
  amazing how many eggs one can break without making a decent
  omelette.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: 1.42?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Apr 00, at 20:32, Michael Heydekamp wrote
about "Re: 1.42?":

> AD> I believe release will appear soon since no crashes and ugly bugs
> AD> have been found at the moment.
> 
> Not sure.  See my recent posting "Message base corrupted?".

Have you tried my suggestion?;-) Did it work for you?

As for this "message base corrupted", _if_ it's an index problem it's not a 
serious problem at all. It happens from time to time with Pegasus as well, 
reindexing brings "from nowhere" the messages that were deleted way ago -- 
but that isn't a real problem. As some of you outta there say, "shit happens";-))


By the way, have you been here:
http://www.notam.uio.no/~hcholm/altlang/stat.html ?;-))
The moderators could add this link to the subscription messages, probably, to 
indicate the words and expressions not to be used on list;-))



-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If everything is coming your way then you're in the wrong lane.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: 1.42?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Apr 00, at 13:24, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: 1.42?":

> You left out another major enhancement. Improved MIME digest support where
> it creates a virtual folder for MIME attached messages. :-)

Nope, I don't like the way it works;-( Besides, it's a bit buggy: try clicking 
either of the buttons "delete and move" when browsing MIME digest;-) I just 
had no time to explore this addition closely, so it's not time yet for the bug 
report...


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If you can't make it good, make it big.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: 1.42?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Apr 00, at 18:59, Oliver Sturm wrote
about "1.42?":

> I'm not on TBBETA, so I'd like to ask here: Does anyone know when 1.42
> will be available? I've noticed there must have been at least 17 betas
> out  yet  and  the announcements for new features looked great. So I'm
> eagerly waiting ;)

New features are great indeed;-) Stefan has announced lately, that he's not 
going to implement anymore new features for 1.42, right now they seem to be 
involved in bugfixing only. Therefore you may expect 1.42 to be officially 
announced in the nearest future. The number of betas is perfectly 
understandable: this gonna be a _major_ upgrade (to say nothing of the 
upcoming ver. 2;-)) with new messagebase format, flagging, colouring 
messagelist, ability to change the fonts used in it, memo support for individual 
messages (which's implemented not in the best way possible, IMHO;-(), etc.
So, stay tuned;-) It's a _different_ Bat;-) 

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If a series of events can go wrong, it will do so in the worst
  possible sequence.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Corrupted message base?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Apr 00, at 18:24, Michael Heydekamp wrote
about "Corrupted message base?":

> When I shut down TB! it compresses all folders. When it comes to the
> Inbox of the second account, for 35 secs. I see a message box
> "Compressing folder Inbox" and then get another message box saying:
> 
> Could not create a new index of message base

Try deleting the *.tbi file of the corrupted folder. On restart TB will reindex the 
folder. Be aware, that all the messages that were deleted from the folder, but 
not purged physically on compress, will reappear.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  An optimist believes that we live in the best of all possible
  worlds. A pessimist fears that this is true.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Word wrap and paragraph markers

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Apr 00, at 21:16, Woofie wrote
about "Word wrap and paragraph markers":


> I only have one complaint about TB...otherwise it is a great email prog.
> 
> The  complaint  is the EOL character or paragraph marker that is inserted at the
> end of each line in the message body instead of only at the end of the paragraph
> as per other email progs.
> 
> Is there any way I can get a true word wrap?

No, you can't, otherwise it would likely become a violation of RFC821.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch
  either one being made.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: General/Wish/RAR Help

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 19 Apr 00, at 19:52, David Smith wrote
about "General/Wish/RAR Help":

>   Finally, I have a question regarding RAR and the PGP dll's.  The
> documentation is unclear; are the dll's from the download page
> necessary in order to use an external PGP program with TB?  

When I did a _clear_ install of TB 1.41, I found out that the PGP dlls weren't 
included in the distribution file. I had to put the dlls into TB directory manually. 
This might be an oversight of developers;-)

> I'm currently running PGP freeware 6.5.3.  If so, is there some way to get
> them in some format other than RAR?  

Why don't you like RAR?;-)

> After some difficulties, 

;-))) www.rarsoft.com or _any_ search engine;-)

> I managed to get the decompression utility (also tried using the full
> version), however every single RAR file that I try it on shows up as being
> corrupted in some way, either a CRC error or broken file header or something.

This looks like the RIT labs server-side problem. Here's what the RAR 
developer has to say about this:


Q:  When I download a RAR archive using Netscape Navigator or 
Communicator, the file is corrupt, what's wrong?  

A:  Apache HTTP server erroneously reports the RAR archive type as 
text/plain and as a result, Netscape Navigator/Communicator treats the file as 
plain text.  To prevent this happening, those webmasters,  who use Apache, 
should create .htaccess file in each directory which has RAR archives and 
add the following string to it:  

  AddType application/x-rar-compressed rar

If .htaccess already exists, this string should be added to the already existing 
file.  


Looks like _exactly_ this problem... I've got into the troubles of this kind once, 
too. The chmod+.htaccess method worked just fine for me;-)


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Build a system that only a fool can use and only a fool will
  use it.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Japanese

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 17 Apr 00, at 14:05, Gary wrote
about "Japanese":

>   I have someone who is interested in TB! in the States here, and he
>   wondered if he can receive things in Japanese.   Does a Cyrillic
>   character set cover this?

Joking?;-) Cyrillic is for Slavic languages, like Russian, Ukrainian, Serbian, 
Bulgarian, Byellorussian, etc. There are no Slavs in Japan;-)))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If God had intended for us to go to concerts, He would have
  given us tickets.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Scripting in v2.0 - the possibilities?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 16 Apr 00, at 23:38, Dieter Hummel wrote
about "Re: Scripting in v2.0 - the possibi":

> > Stefan says: "So, virtually, it will be possible to do anything". What
> > exactly does "anything" mean in this context? Anyone who cares to
> > enlighten me with regard to what we might come to see in the future.
> > Exemplify (in easy to understand terms :-)), enhancements that might
> > be added by scripting.
> 
> Unfortunately  it  will  neither  boil eggs for breakfast and toast your
> bread nor will it fill in the forms for your income tax...

Unfortunately, on top of that it can hardly be expressed in "simple words" and 
anyhow one will most definitely need to know programming to exploit this 
functionality. 

Let's see if anybody here succeeds in the "simple explanation" you need; I'm 
not going to undertake this task, especially when I'm supposed to do so using 
not my native language;-) Sorry;-)

> Sorry,  can't  resist. Guess we all have to sit and wait what the future
> will  show  up.  I'm  pretty optimistic that we will have an application
> which will rock.

I hope so, too;-)) And I sure hope we'll see it in the nearest future;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: SOT: Replacement for M$'s Word?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 16 Apr 00, at 22:59, Sir Jinx! wrote
about "SOT: Replacement for M$'s Word?":

StarOffice is definitely worth trying. I have no need in word processor myself, 
so I just have Word'95 installed "for the rainy day" (for the rare cases when 
someone sends me something in DOC format;-)), but I've tested Star on Linux 
quite a bit and must say it's quite OK, IMHO.

P.S. Before you ask: instead of word processors I use TeX (more info on 
www.tug.org) in a combination with ASCII editor WinEdt (www.winedt.com).

> Hello TBlovers!
> 
> I  would  like  to  ask  you  for  an advice. My mom is a
> translator  for/to English language. So, for her work she
> *needs"  an  text  editor that has feature that Word has,
> like  bold,  underline and italic letters, graphics, etc.
> since  99%  of her work are documents. But we both *hate*
> how  Word [doesn't] handle formatting. If you used it for
> some  time,  for some serious work, you know what I mean,
> and  you  were  at  least  million times on the edge of a
> nervous  breakdown,  trying avoid those "suggestions" and
> "corrections"!:)))
> 
> I've  heard  already that Corel's WordPerfect 8 is almost
> perfect,  like  the  good  old DOS-Wordperfect 5.0, but I
> want hear some more opinions, before I finally decide.
> 

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  All inanimate objects can move just enough to get in your way

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Free version of D.Web (one more present);-)

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hello. 

Dialogue Science has released the 4.17 version of Dr.Web and has made it 
free (due to the possible problems people might encounter arond April, 26, 
which's the "magic date" for WinCIH virii). The text of the announcement 
(sorry, in Russian only;-() is below. The link is:

http://www.DialogNauka.ru/anti-cih/home.htm

I have no idea whether they made free the Russian installer only, if you don't 
read Russian it's up to you to find this out;-)

HTH;-))

P.S. Dr.Web is currently #1 antivirus in the world judging by the latest "Virus 
Bulletin" tests.

Russian announcement:

÷ ÐÅÒÉÏÄ Ó 15 ÁÐÒÅÌÑ ÐÏ 15 ÍÁÑ ×ÓÅÍ ÖÅÌÁÀÝÉÍ ÁÂÓÏÌÀÔÎÏ ÂÅÓÐÌÁÔÎÏ 
×ÙÄÁÅÔÓÑ ÐÏÓÌÅÄÎÑÑ ÐÏÌÎÏÆÕÎËÃÉÏÎÁÌØÎÁÑ ×ÅÒÓÉÑ 4.17 ÐÒÏÇÒÁÍÍÙ 
Doctor Web ÄÌÑ Windows 95/98/NT ÎÁ WWW-ÓÅÒ×ÅÒÅ äÉÁÌÏÇîÁÕËÉ ÐÏ 
ÁÄÒÅÓÕ: http://www.DialogNauka.ru/anti-cih/home.htm  

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  There are two sides to every argument unless a man is
  personally involved, in which case there is only one.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: writing to message header

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 15 Apr 00, at 21:48, Chuck Smith wrote
about "writing to message header":

> Is is possible to write tot message header? I noticed this evening on
> the PGP-users list that one of the users in including a link in the
> message header to his PGP public key like this:

Well, I can easily mimick this behaviour with Pegasus, too;-) Unfortunately, 
TB doesn't currently support adding custom headers to the outgoing 
messages, which is a long-standing wishlist item AFAIK.

So: "Not yet, maybe in version 2";-)))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: LinuxBat now!

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 15 Apr 00, at 16:44, Arno van Stralen wrote
about "Re[2]: LinuxBat now!":

> Opera Software, I agree, has been a bit - how am I going to put this
> politically correct :-) - too enthousiatic when proclaiming version
> 4.0. However, Opera is the leading browser on CSS technology and has
> been that ever since CSS made it's appearance. It helped people
> working on low-power systems to surf the Web in a normal way. 

Okay, my _own_ experience: AMD 5x86-133 CPU overclocked to 160 MHz, 
16 Megs of RAM, Windows'95 OSR2 Russian (this is the system I had two 
years ago). Netscape 4 worked just fine, Opera... well, it kinda worked;-))) 

> speed is overwhelming when compared to IE and NS. 

I cannot confirm this. Launching speed on slow systems -- yes, but only 
_launching_ speed.



> Opera 3.60 has hanged two times in one and a half year at my system.
> That extends the crashes of IE with thousands of percents.

Did you ever install it on _localized_ Windows system?;-)

> Alexander> , it GPFs (the ONLY triple GPF I've seen this month was Opera's),
> 
> It does WHAT? :-)

Exactly what I have written;-)

> Alexander>some versions also leak terribly.
> 
> Ah well, the spoiled-coffee spots on my desk are worse :-)

Memory leaks can be fatal for the systems with low resources, at which 
systems you say Opera is aimed at.

> 
> 
> You've got a choice! If you haven't experienced our competitors' products,
> this may be the right time to do it. We believe that in order to appreciate
> the size and speed of Opera you need to see them first, but we warn you of
> extremely large file size, extensive download times, as well as hard disk and
> processor requirements. The rest we leave up to you to judge. 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen that on microsoft.com of Netcenter?

Thanks to god, no. It's a good example of "comparative advertisement", 
which's forbidden in Russia by our laws.

> There's nothing better than off-topic discussions :-)

I'd suggest returning to TB-related issues though;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Today is the difference between yesterday and tomorrow.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: LinuxBat now!

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 14 Apr 00, at 22:44, Christian Dysthe wrote
about "LinuxBat now!":

>   I prefer Linux, I NEED The Bat! for my work. How do we make this
>   port happen? I mean, I work for Opera Software, we are doing a Linux
>   port of our browser because we see a market there.



I _really_ hope there will be no market for Opera;-) I've installed Opera five 
(!!!) times here, starting with I believe 3.something, ending with 4/beta. I 
_fully_ support the loud voices I hear these days: "They told they've done a 
_real_ browser, but did absolutely nothing". It hangs, it fails to display HTML 
correctly, it GPFs (the ONLY triple GPF I've seen this month was Opera's), 
some versions also leak terribly.  

IMO, Opera's success has an exact nature of M$'s one: the clever marketing 
policy claiming that it's "a new type of the browser: less bloated, but only 
_slightly_ less-functional, really user-friendly". It's a lie! It's like M$'s 
marketing, only reversed: exploiting people's _dislike_ towards M$-like 
applications. But the plain ugly truth is that it's only a marketing slogan and 
_nothing_ else. 



>   The Bat! would wipe the competition away on that platform in a week,
>   and people would pay. I would, a lot would because most e-mail
>   software on Linux...ummm...sucks? :)

The Bat is a Delphi product and as such it will be ported to Linux _after_ 
Corel/Inprise finishes the port of Delphi.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything
  which is not prohibited is compulsory.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: strange feature request

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 14 Apr 00, at 13:18, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: strange feature request":

> > This ideal setup that you're speaking of imposes an increased
> > degree of complexity to the user. He buys an e-mail application and now
> > has to worry about getting an editor and now has to worry about getting a
> > image viewer and now has to worry about installing a browser and now has
> > to . etc. etc.
> 
> We have discussed this before and you know this is patently false.  It is
> more complex as now the user has to learn 20-30 different implementations of
> everything, none of which talk to each other in an respectable fashion. 

Excuse me, but lets return to the ground! The request (see the subject;-)) was:
1. to add twain caller;
2. to add image conversion (BMP-->GIF);
3. to automate the sequence of tasks: scan-->convert-->attach in one 
operation.

_This_ request is of the type I'm stongly opposing, since it's a real pain-in-the-
ass (especially TWAIN part: the twain implementations extremely vary), and 
besides, it will not be flexible _at_all_ unless a heavy GUI customization is 
added. And this, in turn, is unnecessary software bloat. Dixi (I mean, EOT for 
me).

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The first duty of love is to listen.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: strange feature request

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 14 Apr 00, at 11:32, Steve Lamb wrote
about "Re: strange feature request":

> > it is absolute legitime to expand a program
> 
> No, it is not.  The one constant of the software world is that specialized
> programs will always function better in their assigned roll than the same
> component of a generalized program.  Too many programmers forget that and as a
> result we get bloated mediocre problems which are best described as useless.

Exactly my point.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: strange feature request

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 14 Apr 00, at 19:26, Patrick Erler wrote
about "Re[2]: strange feature request":

> >> http://ftp.dresden-online.com/~perler/files/shot.gif

This link will never work;-) You link to ftp site via http protocol...

> >> as we see you are not able to send a simple attachement, we decided
> >> to give the 3.500.000 $ order to you competitor.
> 
> AM> ROTFLMAO!!! OK, you win. :) Ignorance is a hell of thing but in
> AM> the interest of keeping customers, yes, they're always right. :
> 
> but isn't this the killer argument for a feature in "the bat" - to do it
> spastic-proof? ;)

No, it is not. If it were, then the next wish would be to make TB a full OS. Why 
not, after all? The answer is simple: a program is to perform exactly the set of 
functions it's designed for. TB is a MUA, NOT a scanner/archiver. When the 
plugins support becomes available, you'll be able to call the external programs 
that will do the trick. Actually, you kind of can right now. Make a batch file that 
would call your scanner, then call the archiver (or an image conversion 
program) against the result and put the resulting GIF or JPEG or ZIP to, say, 
c:\documents\tobesent.gif, then make a quick template for TB having used the 
%ATTACH macro, and that's all.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  A mind is a terrible thing to ugg.. I forogt..

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: thread by reference

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 13 Apr 00, at 11:53, Chuck Smith wrote
about "thread by reference":

> I have been playing around with viewing messages by thread recently.
> I
> was not even aware that this feature was available until recently.
> Nice feature to have, but I have one mailing list that when I try to
> View Thread By Reference --- it does nothing. How does TB! apply this
> sorting.?

The message headers should carry the following three fields:
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To:
References:
(see this message headers for the example).

When you compose a totally new message (i.e. not a reply), TB will 
automatically add the unique
Message-ID: header field. When somebody replies to this message, the reply 
will have it's own unique Message-ID: _and_ the In-Reply-To: header, in which 
the message-id of the message being replied to is contained. The next reply, 
quite analogously, will have Message-Id: and In-Reply-To: and, on top of that, 
References: field, where the ID of the first message goes to. The References: 
field is cummulative, that is, it usually contains the IDs of all the messages of 
the current thread, separated by the spaces (or at least a sufficiently large 
number of IDs if the thread is long enough). This machinery used to be buggy 
in the previous versions of TB, but with 1.42 betas it has been fixed.

When TB performs the threading by references, it takes into account all three 
headers described above, which makes it possible to arrange messages in 
threads in the (logical) order they were created.

As for your problem with the mailing list traffic that wouldn't thread all right: 
maybe the MUAs used on that mailing list do not add the threading headers 
appropriately? Just look into the full headers of the messages to find out 
what's the real case.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  There are three ways to get something done: do it yourself,
  hire someone, or forbid your kids to do it.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: kill dupes

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 13 Apr 00, at 12:14, Tony Boom wrote
about "Re: kill dupes":

> MDP> Not on the current version. Perhaps V2?
> 
>   I've seen this phrase appear on many, many messages. Is it a cookie
>   or is there actually a V2 pending?
> 
>   If so, when can we expect it's release. If this version of TB is
>   anything to go by then V2, with all the promises being made must be
>   one hell of a program... I can hardly wait.

The last thing I have heard was that the first beta is to be out in about 2 weeks. 
You might wish to apply the usual X3 multiplier though;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The bigger they are, the harder they hit.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Forwarded mail?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 12 Apr 00, at 16:18, Allie Martin wrote
about "Re: Forwarded mail?":

> > By the way, I got it workiong now, don't know what was wrong.
> 
> Good. I guess we'll never know. :)

I'd say, it needed a restart of TB;-) Just a guess;-))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Those who don't study the past will repeat its errors. Those
  who do study it will find OTHER ways to err.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: The Bat! - suggestions

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 12 Apr 00, at 21:16, Oliver Sturm wrote
about "Re: The Bat! - suggestions":

> > Nowadays,  most  of list already support RFC-2369 (including this list),
> > so supporting RFC-2369 very useful.
> 
> I like the idea ;), but what is RFC-2369?

It's the RFC that describes the "list headers" and how MUAs should deal with 
these. See the headers of each TBUDL message, you'll find the full set of list 
headers there. In theory, a MUA should automate dealing with common list 
actions, like subbing/unsubbing/getting help provided that the message carries 
these headers. Pegasus (partially) supports this functionality starting from 3.x.

Stefan announced lately he's going to add this functionality some day.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If there is a 50/50 chance of something going wrong, nine
  times out of ten it will.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Forwarded mail?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 11 Apr 00, at 21:08, Thobias Nilsson wrote
about "Forwarded mail?":

> Why does TB! attach a file when I want to forward a mail?
> How do I do to make it insert it in the mail instead of bringing an attachment?
> Is it possible?

There exist two ways of forwarding mail: "simple" forwarding that was the only 
way in the pre-MIME days and forwarding when one attaches 
(message/rfc822 type attachment) the message being forwarded to a newly 
created one. There exist pros and contras to each way. In TB this is controlled 
on the per-accout basis (Properties-->templates-->forward-->MIME 
forwarding checkbox).

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  There's always one more bug.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Anti virus software and The Bat!

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 10 Apr 00, at 13:09, Marek Mikus wrote
about "Re[2]: Anti virus software and The Bat!":

Okay, guys, let's _stop_ finally introducing our own favourite antiviruses! If 
you really want to know, which AV tools are the best, go and look at the latest 
Virus Bulletin results. These can be found, for example, at www.drweb.ru 
(English version: www.sald.com). If you are lazy (like me;-)), I'll tell you: 
1. Dr.Web (>99% of virii "in the wild")
2. AVP (approx. 99% of virii "in the wild" )
3. F-Prot (>95%)
.
XXX. NAV (it's one of the worst: <90% of virii "in the wild").

But of course, if you want to get nice GUI rather then to scan for virii, then 
even WinAmp will very probably serve your needs;-))

> CD>>   Does anyone know if anti virus software exist that will check mail
> CD>>   delivered and sent from The Bat!? If not I would like to help make
> CD>>   sure it happens.
> 
> > I use Trend PC-Cillin. It has caught viruses (or viri?) sent to me by
> > mail, ie to The Bat!. Maybe you want to change your AV scanner?
> 
> When will have TB support for MAPI (version 2.0 of TB), AVG will have
> support for checking sent and received mails in TB :-))
> 
> The antivirus product AVG is developed by distinguished czech company
> Grisoft from my town :-)
> 
> Whole company uses The Bat! :-

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: How to filter email messages in which I'm in CC (using kludges?) ??

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 9 Apr 00, at 20:47, Davide Ferrari wrote
about "Re: How to filter email messages":

> Ok... I see but could you explain better how RegExps work?

Well, I could, but this would become a repost of online help file;-) So you'd 
better look into the latter: Help Topic-->Regular Expressions. This part of the 
help file is rather good, IMHO...

> In the online help I've found nothing about regexp
> A link to some expplanation would be appreciated

That's strange. Maybe you have installed a language pack and are using TB 
with non-English helpfile? Try switching to English, then you'll be able to 
consult the online help on regular expressions.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: How to filter email messages in which I'm in CC (using kludges?) ??

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 9 Apr 00, at 10:10, Davide Ferrari wrote
about "How to filter email messages in whi":

> I've a big problem...
> Now I need to separate all the messages sent to me from those sent in Cc to me.



> I've tried to use the form "in kludges find expression [Cc:myemailaddress]"
> But this works only if my email address is the first in the list of the Cc email
> address.

That's what the regular expressions are for;-) The regexp string would be 
something like:

(?-sm)CC\:.*?(davide\.ferrari\@cisco\.com)

If there _exists_ your address in CC: header field, this regexp will match it.

HTH;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  On a beautiful day like this it's hard to believe anyone can
  be unhappy -- but we'll work on it.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Using Macros for header (%RETURNPATH="...")

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 8 Apr 00, at 20:22, Michael Heydekamp wrote
about "Re: Using Macros for header (%RETUR":

> AVK> BTW, this was written by me and tested on 1.41. After that I
> AVK> installed 1.42, and, to my surprise, 1.42 is indeed adding the
> AVK> Return-Path: header.
> 
> v1.41 did also set the Return-Path header.  I don't know how you tested
> this, but I can see this header in every mail I created with v1.41.

Let me provide the details once more. This account of mine is a UUCP one, a 
special UUCP<-->SMTP,POP3 gateway is used to make the usage of a 
SMTP/POP3 e-mail client possible. This gateway acts just as a local "fake" 
SMTP/POP3 server sitting on 127.0.0.1 (localhost IP), to which TB or any 
other e-mail client talks, thinking it's a real SMTP server. After that, the 
outgoing mail finds its way to the UUCP spool on my HDD. Dial-up operation 
to the UUCP server of my ISP follows, at which point the mail is finally sent to 
the the recipient.

So you see, I'm able to examine what was _actually_ sent out by TB -- I just 
need to look into the UUCP spooldir. With _both_ TB 1.41 and 1.42, I was 
able to see the Return-Path: header when I examined the full headers of the 
message in TB's Outbox. The difference was that in the UUCP spool the 
messages generated by 1.41 did _not_ have this header, whereas the 
messages generated by 1.42 _do_ have it. This of course means that the 
gateway has nothing to do with stripping out the header in question (this was 
suggested by Leif when I reported this test a while ago).

As for your case, what do you mean by the phrase "I can see this header in 
every mail created by 1.41"? If you mean that you see this header in the 
Outbox, this apparently means nothing: judging by my tests, this header was 
_not_ actually sent by TB to SMTP in 1.41 times. If you mean that you send 
the message using TB to another account of yours, receive it from there and 
examine the headers, then why are you so positive that it was TB who added 
the header in question? It could be any SMTP server down the route...

> AVK> No idea. IMHO, TB should _not_ set the Return-Path: itself. It's up
> AVK> to SMTP server to set/unset/change this field, and TB is _not_ a
> AVK> SMTP server.
> 
> My problem is not *that* TB sets the Return-Path.  The problem is that
> TB sets it to the address specified in the Reply-To header rather than
> to the address specified in the From header.
> 
> This can lead (and leads in my case) to the odd situation that outgoing
> mail is rejected by the SMTP server.

I can suggest a workaround. Just set up an "Outgoing" filter, create a simple 
program (e.g. a Perl script) that would take care of stripping Return-Path: 
away from your messages, and you're done...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Build a system that only a fool can use and only a fool will
  use it.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Using Macros for header (%RETURNPATH="...")

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 8 Apr 00, at 18:05, Michael Heydekamp wrote
about "Re: Using Macros for header (%RETUR":

> >> I'll bet the Return-Path: in your example has been added by _your_
> >> SMTP server, NOT by TB. The reason might be the will of your sysadmin
> >> to ensure that the automated replies (like mailing lists traffic
> >> after you subscribe) goes to gmx address, NOT your send-address.

BTW, this was written by me and tested on 1.41. After that I installed 1.42, 
and, to my surprise, 1.42 is indeed adding the Return-Path: header.

> DH> No, it _was_ generated by TB. I did try it with TB and Outlook.
> DH> Outlook did it as intended. But anyway, the issue is already fixed
> DH> in the next beta.
> 
> Sure?  I just downloaded v1.42 Beta/12 and TB is still and as before
> setting the Return-Path to the address specified in the Reply-To header
> (if any).

No idea. IMHO, TB should _not_ set the Return-Path: itself. It's up to SMTP 
server to set/unset/change this field, and TB is _not_ a SMTP server.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The sad thing about Windows bashing is it's all true.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Contextual "naming" using macros?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 8 Apr 00, at 11:07, Thomas Fernandez wrote
about "Re: Contextual "naming" using macros?":

> I find it slightly annoying that TB uses the part before the "@" if
> there is no Real Name. Since TB recognizes the sender when we hit
> "reply" and the email address is in the addressbook, it should look
> there automatically for any FName, IMHO.

Well, I could (with the help of regexp) make a macro that would:
1. work exactly as FNAME when there _is_ a from name in the From: header 
of the message you reply to;
2. expand to blank (or whatever predefined by you) string otherwise.

Quite naturally, one can't use the AB info this way; this is up to the developers 
from TB Cave to add this functionality...

If there exists some interest in the macro described above here on TBUDL, 
please let me know.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  To every rule there is an exception,
 and vice versa.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: OS's

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 8 Apr 00, at 11:03, Thomas Fernandez wrote
about "Re: OS's":

> AVK> OS/2 port will probably become available in the due time, too, since 
> AVK> Win32/OS2 project has been incorporated into the Wine one about a year 
> AVK> ago... 
> 
> Speaking of Wine, which I have seen mentioned on this list a couple of
> times... I understand it is a Windows emulator running under Linux, is
> that about correct?

Practically, yes, but don't pass this info on;-)) Officially, WINE is translated 
this way: "WINE Is Not an Emulator";-))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If everything is coming your way then you're in the wrong lane.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: OS's

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 8 Apr 00, at 0:47, Thomas Fernandez wrote
about "Re: OS's":

> CV> What operating systems will TB run on?
> 
> M$ products. A Linux/unix version has been requested repeatedly. I
> don't know anything about OS/2.

OS/2 port will probably become available in the due time, too, since 
Win32/OS2 project has been incorporated into the Wine one about a year 
ago... 

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The bag that breaks is the one with the eggs.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: The Bat! and Windows 2000

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 7 Apr 00, at 9:17, Christian Dysthe wrote
about "The Bat! and Windows 2000":

> I am back on this list after have been woring on a Linux box for a
> year or so. What Linux really misses is an e-mail client like The Bat!

Mahogany? 0.50 seems to be pretty comparable, although I haven't played 
with it long enough...


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: OS's

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 7 Apr 00, at 12:55, Gary wrote
about "Re[4]: OS's":

> M> It will possible to do it, when Inprise create Delphi for Linux :-)
> 
> I thought Borland had Delphi (shows you how far I have been out of
> it).  There must be some compiler that would work sufficiently fast
> for Linux.

Borland was renamed to Inprise a year ago or somewhat like that. Lately, 
Inprise has been bought by Corel. It's now called somehow, but the exact 
name escapes me...

Hopefully, the old good Borland programs will not start to look like those 
Corel's bloated pigs. I've trashed Corel Draw lng ago (now using 
Macromedia Freehand instead), it's been a real clumsy and buggy app...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Love has reasons that reason knows nothing of.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: storing messages in mailbox or individually

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 3 Apr 00, at 10:34, SyP wrote
about "storing messages in mailbox or individually":

> what is the main reason for storing the messages in one big file per
> folder? 

Works faster;-) 

> Wouldn't it be nicer if TB used one file per message? NTFS and also
> ReiserFS on Linux can store small files pretty efficiently!
> (Of course FAT16 or FAT32 cannot).

I'm not going to install NT of any flavour here just in order to make the life of e-
mail client better;-) If I though this way, I'd never uninstall OS/2 and would 
have all my volumes in HPFS;-))

> So maybe the forthcoming Linux port should use the 1 f/msg method.

What for? Why don't you like the 2files per 1folder method? Remember, 
under Linux there are no problems with defragmentation anyway;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The bigger they are, the harder they hit.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Palm III

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 2 Apr 00, at 16:48, Andreas Rumpenhorst wrote
about "Palm III":

> a long time ago somebody asked if The Bat! is going to be developed not
> only for Linux then for PDAs like 3Com's Palm. I don't remember the answer.
> 
> Will there be a The Bat! for Palm?

Sinchronizing between PC and Palm will be possible when TB becomes 
capable of MAPI. This is planned for ver. 2, AFAIR. HTH;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Don't let school interfere with your education.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Changing folder in Folder View, etc.

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 31 Mar 00, at 23:17, tracer wrote
about "Re: Changing folder in Folder View,":

> > What can I say? Thanks on behalf of all the people here who aren't native 
> > English-speakers for this refreshing discussion;-)))
> 
> > P.S. I don't want you to proceed with the analysis of the phrase above;-)
> > P.P.S. Thanks to all the gods existing, in Russian there are _no_ definite (and 
> > indefinite) articles at all!;-))
> 
> only temporary ones??

What do you mean? Nope, NO definite/indefinite articles, NO silly auxillary 
verbs, (almost) no modal verbs of various flavours, and (as a free bonus) only 
_three_ tenses;-). And of course, no "sequence" of the latter. And despite all 
that, some people still dare to say "Russian is so-o-o hard to learn;-(".

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence
  on society.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Changing folder in Folder View, etc.

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 31 Mar 00, at 14:04, Simon wrote
about "Re: Changing folder in Folder View, etc.":

What can I say? Thanks on behalf of all the people here who aren't native 
English-speakers for this refreshing discussion;-)))

P.S. I don't want you to proceed with the analysis of the phrase above;-)
P.P.S. Thanks to all the gods existing, in Russian there are _no_ definite (and 
indefinite) articles at all!;-))

>  In  the ideal world (also known as TBv2?) the virtual ticker folder
>  *will* update dynamically. 
> 
> TF> Grammatically speaking your first sentence was correct:
> 
> Well actually Thomas, using 'the' definite article before an abstract noun,
> might be considered grammatically incorrect in some circles - unless of
> course it was used 'appropriately' as a metaphor. Sticking 'an' indefinite
> article before the non-concrete noun would move the sentence slightly closer
> to grammatical nirvana. Furthermore, as 'the' definite article has been used
> in this case, one might also consider changing the other *case*, that of
> 'ideal world'. 'Ideal World' is also a proper noun in this context, and
> therefore should have capitalised first letters..as should 'Virtual
> Ticker (tm)'. Furthermore, and furthermore (uhumm), the 'verb' *will* is not
> 'associated' with 'ideal world'. 'virtual folder is the subject of the verb
> agreement. The subject and predicate being Virtual Folder & *will*,
> respectively, not Ideal World & *will*. However, I get your point! :)
> 
> No, I'm _not_ criticising what you typed Marck, and I promise that I won't
> mention it again! I promise :. And no, I don't want an argument
> on-list with you Thomas, :)).

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  When you are sure you're right, you have a moral duty to
  impose your will upon anyone who disagrees with you.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Templates and Clipboard

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 27 Mar 00, at 6:28, dMb wrote
about "Templates and Clipboard":

As far as I understand, it's somehow related to the regexp I've lately made on 
request of one of the listmembers. Try this (quoting my own message):



%TO=""%TO="%SETPATTREGEXP=""(?ms).*?(\s\S*?\@.*?\s)""%REGEXPM
ATCH=""%TEXT"""

(this should have been a one long line, of course). This is a very simple and 
quite restricted one, I could probably extend it a bit. It does the following: it 
searches for the _first_ occurence of the string "a-sequence-of-NON-spaces-
@-a-sequence-of-any-characters-till-the-next-space" (w/o quotes) and 
assigns the To: field to the matching string. If the macro fails to find an 
address, your reply won't have any (sic!). Please tell me what extra 
functionality would you like this macro to have. 



Of course, this can be easily made to put the matched address into the 
_body_ of your reply rather then the To: field. 

Note, that I've never received any information from the person this macro was 
designed for, so I have absolutely no idea how it works (and even _whether_ it 
works;-)). It's up to you to play with it.

> Does anyone know if there is a macro that I can use to put clipboard
> contents into a template?
> 
> Alternatively,  is there anyway I can put my cursor on a link (email
> address) in a message, and have that highlighted link appear as text
> in a message?
> 
> Note, I do not want to generate a new message or reply to the
> individual's address that I'm highlighting.  I only need that address
> included in the body of the message.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If there is a 50/50 chance of something going wrong, nine
  times out of ten it will.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Import of Pegasus Address Books

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 25 Mar 00, at 18:30, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
about "Import of Pegasus Address Books":

> I've read the FAQ messages about this subject but still have a 
> question.

Yeah, that faq was suggested by me;-)

> One of the messages I read indicated that one should use the Mail 
> System Converter to import the Pegasus exported file, then export 
> that file in Eudora V2 format.  I tried this routine and TB failed to 
> recognize the file as a Eudora file.

Really? In my case it worked just fine. AFAIR, you launch MSC against 
Pegasus addressbook, then select "simple Eudora v2" or whatever, and after 
that import the resulting file into TB. But AFAIK MSC has been updated lately, 
that might be the source of the problem...

> I tried exporting in Eudora Pro V3 format and and got a partially 
> successful import with names and email addresses making the trip but 

Aha, that's better. That's exactly what was imported in my case. I'm afraid the 
rest of info cannot be imported correctly: in my case, all the other fields of 
Pegasus AB found their way to either dev/null or to the Memo field of the TB's 
AB, from where I had to cut'n'paste them to their respective places;-(

> nothing else did.  The one other field I'm really interested in 
> converting is the Company field...  does anyone know how to get this 
> field included in the import?

If you ask me, I think there exists no such way;-( At least, I didn't find one. 
Well, I'd say, names&addresses is not bad, it's better then nothing;-)

> I'm using Pegasus V3.12C and evaluating TB as a replacement.  Pegasus 
> has had problems with the message editor for some time and I'm just 
> about out of patience.

Look at the headers of my message;-) You'll find that we're apparently in one 
boat. I'm currently waiting for the TB v2 betas to appear...


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  A crowd counts many heads but few brains.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Unforntuantely!

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 22 Mar 00, at 21:51, Simon wrote
about "Unforntuantely!":

>   Does this word come up as a spelling error in anyone's spell checker?
> 
>   Unforntuantely
> 
>   Doesn't in mine. Looks like a new word slipped into the language when
>   I was not looking. :))

This spelling is better for _my_ tongue, IMHO;-)) Might be that TB's 
spellchecker cares a bit 'bout poor Russians who fail to pronounce the 
correctly spelled variant;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Your reality check just bounced.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Multiple aliases

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Mar 00, at 23:51, Thomas Fernandez wrote
about "Re: Multiple aliases":

> >> I think this would not only overcomplicate usage - as well as
> >> programme development, thus inviting bugs - but also bloat the thing.
> 
> AVK> I don't think so.
> 
> IMHO this would mean that I have not only multiple accounts, but
> within every account multiple pop addresses and passwords.

Yes. But if the source code were _mine_ (i.e. written by me), it would be 
something about 100 more lines of Pascal code. I don't think it's a bloat. It's 
not just an extra option, it's a new functionality. Of course, I don't know how 
the source code for TB is organized, but my feeling suggests that it simply 
_must_ be that simple. But then, I *I* were to decide how to implement this, I'd 
choose to make it virtual-folders-based. This way one gets the functionality 
described above, and PLUS many other things are achieved "in one blow".

> AVK> Pegasus, again;-) Two ways: either built-in "Identities" capability (same 
> AVK> account, but different settings, including, but not limited to, the transport 
> AVK> ones), or MultiPOP extension (plugin) that does exactly this: collects the 
> AVK> incoming mail from any number of POP servers specified into one and the 
> AVK> same Inbox.
> 
> So that's the point? Checking from seperate pop servers into the same
> inbox? You can do that with a filter in TB. Create a filter that
> catches each message and put it into the inbox of your "main" account.

Nah, won't work. First, one still needs to *open* each Inbox then. Second, 
what if a certain fraction of the account A traffic has to go to account B and at 
the same time a certain fraction -- to account C. Third, filtering all traffic of 
account A into the Inbox of the account B means that you'll be no longer sure, 
through which account (i.e. through which POP3) this or that message has 
been in fact delivered. Fourth, the point is: why need one have *four pre-
defined folders* in each TB's account??? If I filter all the incoming traffic of 
account B to the Inbox of A, I see absolutely no sense in having all these 
folders. 

> Anyway, I still don't understand why this is necessary, and what
> Pegasus does with these "identitfies". If you think I'm the
> only one, I would still appreciate you giving me some clarification
> off-list.

It would be simplier just to install Pegasus and look yourself probably;-) But 
anyhow... Identities are in fact the following feature. You've got an account (a 
pop-smtp pair, to which a folder structure on your HDD corresponds). From 
time to time you'll want probably to change the global (e.g. in TB's case 
Account Properties) options temporarily. Currently in TB you can achieve this 
via macros (Folder-level, Group-level, Contact-level), but you cannot 
_globally_ change, for example, the Reply-To: information temporarily: you'll 
need to goto Account Properties, change it there, click OK, use it, then the 
reverse procedure. In Pegasus, these tasks are one-click away: you just 
change the Identity. On top of that, different identities can have _different_ 
POP-SMTP settings, _but_ the identities _always_ share the same Inbox, 
same Trash, same Sent and same Outbox (although the information as to 
which identity was in fact active when this particular message was sent _is_ 
preserved in both Sent and Outbox!). Further, the Identities can be "assigned" 
to folders (this makes it work _exactly_ as in TB: just compare this to Folder-
specific templates), but currently cannot be assigned to addressbook items 
(here TB has more strength, apparently).

Needless to add, that Pegasus does allow completely separate accounts as 
well;-) These two features do not contradict with one another, at least I don't 
see how;-)

As for another Pegasus feature, MultiPOP extension, this is completely 
independent from Identities. It does nothing more then getting all the incoming 
traffic from a number of POP servers specified by the user into the Inbox of 
the currently active account. I don't use this feature.

Hope I managed to answer your question;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Things get worse under pressure.
(forth principle of thermodynamics)

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: remove from address book

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Mar 00, at 17:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
about "remove from address book":

Okay, will this AOL idiot get lost finally? He seems to be able to set up an 
autoresponder. Never thought an AOL user would ever succeed in doing it;-). 
But right now he's just spamming the list! Moderators, where are you?

> Not using The Bat.
> 
> Please remove [EMAIL PROTECTED] from address book.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  ``I came, I saw, SHE conquered.'' (The original Latin seems to
   have been garbled.)

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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RE: Misc. problems & Windows 2000

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Mar 00, at 20:57, Mark Aston wrote
about "RE: Misc. problems & Windows 2000":

> > Just wait until your "Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416
> > (9.0.2910.0)" ruins
> > your beloved 2k completely;-) Having heard as much as I have heard (and
> > seen) lately (i.e. last week, after I've returned home from the
> > MacLand;-))
> > about how 2k performs, my guesstimate would be something from two weeks
> > upto a month...
> 
> Please do not use the words 'beloved' and 'microsoft' in the same sentence.
> I use Pine with Linux for most of the time so I am certainly no fan of M$.

Oh well, I definitely didn't want to insult you with this. I was just wondering how 
one "searching for a _working_ MUA" as you say ends up with LookOut;-)) 
Especially a Linux user, as you say;-)

> Unfortunately my partner who shares this PC will only use Windoze, so I need
> a _working_ MUA. Currently (for whatever reason) The Bat! does not work with
> 2k on my system.  When it crashes the system freezes and I cannot get to the
> Task Manager to kill the process, it will normally not dial-up more than
> once a session.

Yeah, in Redmond they call it "stability" AFAIK;-) Under Linux you can kill 
everything at least;-) I just miss my own Warp days when I could safely kill 
even the presentation manager itself Oh well...

As for Win2k-related problems, I haven't got much to say, since I haven't got 
enough experience with that newly-invented monster... But the GUI problems 
like missing buttons closely reminds me the well-known problems with Delphi 
vs. comctl32 library. With 5.0 I've suffered from 4 of 6 Delphi programs I'm 
using routinely here. I'll never install w2k here (in foreseeable future at least) 
hence it's up to you to check it out...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If you want it done right, forget Microsoft.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Misc. problems & Windows 2000

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Mar 00, at 17:37, Martyn Drake wrote
about "Misc. problems & Windows 2000":

> I'm not entirely sure what I've done to my Windows 2000 systems, but
> I'm having a tremendous time trying to persaude The Bat! to import
> messages from Outlook Express 5.0 or Eudora Light 3.06.

I don't use LookOut. As for Eudora, what happens if you try to import a 
_number_ of Eudora folders as "Unix MBX" files? Eudora in fact uses this 
format internally, so there's nothing specific in "Eudora folders";-)

> Whenever I try to import more than one folder, The Bat! does absolutely
> nothing.  It appears to work just fine when I import one folder at a
> time, but this is extremely tedius.  Also, whenever I try to alter an
> account's properties, the folder icons that appear to each catergory
> are missing.

Try downgrading the version of your comctl32... This _might_ help a bit with 
this specific problem AFAIK. I've currently got ver. 5.0 myself, and consider 
trashing it as time permits. Controls get crazy from time to time, affecting how 
Control panel and (especially) some Delphi programs work. (yes, I did 
upgrade comctl manually some time ago, those who are using "normal" 
Win'95 do not have ver. 5.0)

> I've suffered problems with checking mail - The Bat! just locks up and
> even restarting the machine and re-opening The Bat! brings up a blank
> screen with just the top menu options, but no message base, nothing.

I dunno what to say;-( Thanks to all the existing (?) Gods, I didn't install w2k;-)

> I've tried uninstalling, deleting the RIT entries in the registry,
> nuking The Bat! Program Files directory, plus all of them in one go,
> and absolutely nothing gets around the problems described above.  

Which means, it's some kind of non-the-bat-only problem. What applications 
you installed recently? What sys configurations have you attempted? Maybe 
others struggling with w2k could help you?

> tried this with 1.36, 1.38 and 1.41 to no avail.  I did have 1.42/Beta
> 1 and 1.42/Beta 2 on these systems (BTW, I can reproduce these on two
> different Windows 2000 systems) if that would suggest any problems with
> my uninstalling techniques ;)

Nope, uninstalling procedure remains the same.

> Can anybody suggest a way of getting The Bat! to work once again on my
> system?  I'm currently hitting my head against a large frying pan in
> frustration ;)

Good luck to your frying pan;-)))

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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RE: Misc. problems & Windows 2000

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Mar 00, at 19:05, Mark Aston wrote
about "RE: Misc. problems & Windows 2000":



> So TB! has the dubious honour of being the only application which has forced
> me to power down W2k in order to unfreeze it, hence I'm not using it at
> present:-(

Just wait until your "Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)" ruins 
your beloved 2k completely;-) Having heard as much as I have heard (and 
seen) lately (i.e. last week, after I've returned home from the MacLand;-)) 
about how 2k performs, my guesstimate would be something from two weeks 
upto a month...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Do you dream in colors or do you discriminate ?

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: trouble with attachments

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Mar 00, at 15:27, Nikolai Fink wrote
about "trouble with attachments":

> Did anyone ever had trouble with attachments in the Sent folder.
> My Sent folder looses attachments on E-mails after awhile. I
> really don't know when this happen but somtimes and after a
> while the attachments on some E-Mails just disappear.
> 
> Anybody knows a hint?

Try first exporting the folders of Sent hierarchy to Unix MBX format, then 
purging them, then importing back. The trouble is IMHO related to the poor 
quality of the TB's mailbase handling, which's got to be replaced in the nearest 
future (1.42 betas already implement completely new message base handling 
code).

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that
  has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not
  strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But,
  like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time
  and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from
  fiddling with it.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Multiple aliases

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Mar 00, at 17:39, Thomas Fernandez wrote
about "Re: Multiple aliases":

> S> All I was saying was that it we be good for people like me (and there are
> S> millions of us) to be able to retrieve mail from multiple POP3 mailboxes to
> S> one account within TB! without setting up multiple main accounts within TB!
> S> If each account had smtp and multiple POP3 capabilities, this would solve
> S> the problem.
> 
> I think this would not only overcomplicate usage - as well as
> programme development, thus inviting bugs - but also bloat the thing.

I don't think so.

> S>  A great deal of email clients work like this.
> 
> For example?

Pegasus, again;-) Two ways: either built-in "Identities" capability (same 
account, but different settings, including, but not limited to, the transport 
ones), or MultiPOP extension (plugin) that does exactly this: collects the 
incoming mail from any number of POP servers specified into one and the 
same Inbox.

> Oh, by the way, you can still filter from any account into one
> account. 

This wouldn't work as expected under some circumstances, see the TBUDL 
archives.

> Since you have set up mutliple POP accounts with your ISP, I
> would assume you have a reason for it - so why would you want to
> intermix them again anyway?

Again, re-read the archives, it has been discussed on numerous occasions a 
month or so ago.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  One cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs -- but it is
  amazing how many eggs one can break without making a decent
  omelette.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Message ID

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 20 Mar 00, at 11:27, Thomas Fernandez wrote
about "Re: Message ID":

> AFAIK every email programme generates these. Check your incoming mail
> that was sent with other mailers. I'm no expert on RFC's but would
> assume this is somewhere in RFC822.

Nope, it's strictly optional by RFC822. As for the e-mail clients that do NOT 
generate the Message-IDs by default, the superb example would be Pegasus;-
) If you look into the headers of this message, you'll see the message-ID: 
there, but that's not the core Pegasus' work, it's rather inserted by MID plugin. 
Nevertheless, _if_ an incoming message has a Message-ID:, Pegasus will 
correctly add all the In-Reply-To: and References: stuff by itself.   


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  A welfare state is one that assumes responsibility for the
  health, happiness, and general well being of all its citizens
  except the taxpayers.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Inappropriate windows respond to ESC

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 17 Mar 00, at 23:48, John Sullivan wrote
about "Inappropriate windows respond to ESC":


> I'm currently using 1.42 Beta/3, but this issue has been around for ages
> now (including many proper releases).



> I don't think Escape should cancel either window: there are other ways
> to close both of them, and accidentally killing the window is too easy
> when you're trying to cancel some other smaller mode (such as a
> drill-down or properties dialog). 

Yup. You are quite right here, IMHO. One usually thinks "it's much more 
convenient to use just ESC to close everything", but in reality, if implemented 
exactly this way, it immediately leads to even greater inconveniences;-( 



-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  All inanimate objects can move just enough to get in your way

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Using Macros for header (%RETURNPATH="...")

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 17 Mar 00, at 19:39, Michael Wieczorek wrote
about "Re: Using Macros for header (%RETUR":

> >> (A) if the reply-address (entered in "Edit User"-General) is different
> >> from my send address respectivly my From-Address, TB set the
> >> "Return-Path:" to the reply-address resp. "Reply-To:"
> 
> AVK> Nope, I cannot confirm this. Here is what TB sends to the SMTP server in this 
> AVK> case:



> AVK> I'll bet the Return-Path: in your example has been added by _your_ SMTP 
> AVK> server, NOT by TB. The reason might be the will of your sysadmin to ensure 
> AVK> that the automated replies (like mailing lists traffic after you subscribe) 
>goes to 
> AVK> gmx address, NOT your send-address.
> 
> You lose :-))
> 
> My header is copied out of the Outbox! This mail was not going out.
> My guess is that we have different preferences, but which...?

I've looked into the Outbox, _there_ this header is present, all right. But when I 
look at what is _actually_ sent to the server, I see that there is _no_ Return-
Path: header. I'll describe how my experiment is staged. This account is a 
UUCP one, therefore I'm using the SMTP-->UUCP gateway which acts as a 
"fake" SMTP server [127.0.0.1]. Thus, having sent a message with any SMTP 
e-mail client (The Bat or Pegasus or whatever) I have an ability to look into the 
UUCP queue here on my local HDD, where the messages prepared to be sent 
with the next dialup are stored. You could say, that it's the gateway that strips 
away the Return-Path: header, but I can prove that's not the case. The proof 
is simple indeed: Pegasus allows me to add any custom header I like. I added 
the Return-Path:, sent the message through the UUCP account (i.e. through 
the gateway) and then examined it in the UUCP queue. It _had_ the Return-
Path: header I've added intact. This implies that _if_ TB sends the message 
_with_ the Return-Path: header to the gateway (or to the SMTP server, or 
whereever), this header should be there when I look at the message in the 
UUCP queue. But there is not! Q.E.D.;-)

Now an interesting question is: why in the Outbox there _exists_ the Return-
Path: header, _but_ it's stripped out by TB itself when the message is actually 
sent. One might assume that this header is treated by TB as a temporary one: 
TB might use it to determine, on behalf of which address the message is to be 
sent during the SMTP session, that is, what address should be used by the 
program as an argument to the MAIL FROM command.

Another thing, BTW. I do _not_ see the Return-Path: header when examining 
the RFC822 headers of your messages to TBUDL, Michael. If TB sent the 
messages _with_ this header, how and when could it perrish?  

Okay, all this is an assumption only. I'd sure wish to hear any other 
explanation of my experiments, if there exists one;-)

> Which version you are using?

1.41.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows!

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Using Macros for header (%RETURNPATH="...")

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 17 Mar 00, at 0:31, Michael Wieczorek wrote
about "Re: Using Macros for header (%RETUR":

> Hello Alexander!
> 
> (A) if the reply-address (entered in "Edit User"-General) is different
> from my send address respectivly my From-Address, TB set the
> "Return-Path:" to the reply-address resp. "Reply-To:"

Nope, I cannot confirm this. Here is what TB sends to the SMTP server in this 
case:

-8<---
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:22:41 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Kiselev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.41) Personal
Reply-To: "Alexander V. Kiselev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Home Sweet Home
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: check from the bat...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

check

-8<--

> Example:
> ---8<-
> Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:27:05 +0100

I'll bet the Return-Path: in your example has been added by _your_ SMTP 
server, NOT by TB. The reason might be the will of your sysadmin to ensure 
that the automated replies (like mailing lists traffic after you subscribe) goes to 
gmx address, NOT your send-address.

> (B) in this case the originator is - for me :-) -
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], is'nt it? Not [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Yes, but it seems to me that your sysadmin made his best to hide the fact;-)

> In your case "From" and "Reply-To" are the _same_ addresses. Try
> another address for "Reply-To:".

I did. See above.

> AVK> Note the _absence_ of the return-path: field. The latter field is added by the
> AVK> "transport system that deliveres message to the recipient", not by the 
> AVK> originator (in this case, me, or, better to say, TB;-))
> 
> It is strange that _TB_ set the return-path...

It does not.

> (C) The problem - _my_ problem :-) is that my provider reject mails
> which "return-path" is not the "From:"-address to avoid spamming or other ugly
> things. So the "Reply-To"-entry in the "Edit User"-dialog is useless
> for me... :-(  But I need this feature.

See my other message, please;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If it looks easy it's tough. If it looks tough it's damn well
  impossible.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Using Macros for header (%RETURNPATH="...")

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 17 Mar 00, at 4:59, Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris wrote
about "Re: Using Macros for header (%RETUR":

> AVK>> Note the _absence_ of the return-path: field. The latter field is added by the
> AVK>> "transport system that deliveres message to the recipient", not by the 
> AVK>> originator (in this case, me, or, better to say, TB;-))
> 
> MW> It is strange that _TB_ set the return-path...
> 
> Don't worry, this field can be changed by MTA on the way your mail goes.

... and very probably it *will* be changed;-)

> MW> (C) The problem - _my_ problem :-) is that my provider reject mails
> MW> which "return-path" is not the "From:"-address to avoid spamming or other ugly
> MW> things.

Are you sure? I'd think, they are checking the following two: 
1. the address stated in the argument of MAIL FROM command of the SMTP 
envelope (this actually _is_ the return path of course);
2. the address stated in the From: header of your outgoing messages;

and they reject the messages for which these two differ.

I've heard more then once that GMX.de uses this practice, which is IMHO 
quite idiotic anyway and does nothing but brings problems to their users. You 
could probably discuss this matter with their tech-support, if you so wish.

But this implies that you should NOT worry about the Return-Path: header. 
Nobody AFAIK would base the anti-relay measures on this header;-)

> Really? Seems to be strange. The common ISP practice is to check the
> following:
> 
> 1. An IP address from which you are trying to connect to their servers;
> 2. HELO or EHLO commands argument;
> 3. MAIL FROM command argument;
> 4. RCPT TO command argument.

...and the two headers contents: From: and Reply-to:. Almost every 
combination of these 6 parameters has been reported to be used... 


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The only difference between the fool and the criminal who
  attacks a system is that the fool attacks unpredictably and on
  a broader front.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Using Macros for header (%RETURNPATH="...")

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 16 Mar 00, at 0:43, Michael Wieczorek wrote
about "Re: Using Macros for header (%RETUR":

> AVK> ...and Stefan is right (as always;-)) here: you should *not* set the 
>return-path 
> AVK> yourself, on the user side you should limit yourself to altering the Reply-To: 
> AVK> header... because return-path: is subject to be set/changed/altered by the 
> AVK> SMTP server...
> 
> But the "Return-Path:" is setting by *TB* to the "Reply-To:"-address
> *not* by the server. 

Nope;-) Here's what goes to the server in my own case (just an example):

---8<-
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 03:06:57 +0300
From: "Alexander V. Kiselev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.41) Personal
Reply-To: "Alexander V. Kiselev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Home Sweet Home
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: test
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

test
-8<--

Note the _absence_ of the return-path: field. The latter field is added by the 
"transport system that deliveres message to the recipient", not by the 
originator (in this case, me, or, better to say, TB;-))

> If I right to understand the RFC-822 (see below), the RFC means that the
> "Return-Path" is used to identify the _originator_. That means for me: the
> _send-address_ not the reply-address. 

The transport system determines, what should Return-Path: be, based on what 
the SMTP server receives in the SMTP envelope. That is, _if_ it gets the 
following:

MAIL FROM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

,it will set the Return-Path: as follows:

Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

or, maybe,

Return-Path: mail.ru!akiselev

which has the same meaning.

And so it is in your case: the message I'm replying to has:

X-Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

This field has been added by the MDaemon at dutaint.com.

> Explanation to above: [EMAIL PROTECTED] is my send address, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> is my reply-address. But the header generated by TB looks like
> 
> Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

This has been added elsewhere, probably;-) TB shouldn't have added this 
header, IMHO.

> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:09:46 +0100
> From: Michael Wieczorek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.41) Personal
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Which implies that the people who will answer you will use *this* address, 
which is exactly what you want to achieve, isn't it?

The RFC822 information that you supplied below says nothing more on the 
point;-)

> RFC-822
> [..]
> 4.3.1.  RETURN-PATH
> 
>This field  is  added  by  the  final  transport  system  that
>delivers  the message to its recipient.  The field is intended
>to contain definitive information about the address and  route
>back to the message's originator.
> 
>Note:  The "Reply-To" field is added  by  the  originator  and
>   serves  to  direct  replies,  whereas the "Return-Path"
>   field is used to identify a path back to  the  origina-
>   tor.
> 
>While the syntax  indicates  that  a  route  specification  is
>optional,  every attempt should be made to provide that infor-
>mation in this field.
> [..]
> 4.4.3.  REPLY-TO / RESENT-REPLY-TO
> [..]
>Note:  The "Return-Path" field is added by the mail  transport
>   service,  at the time of final deliver.  It is intended
>   to identify a path back to the orginator  of  the  mes-
>   sage.   The  "Reply-To"  field  is added by the message
>   originator and is intended to direct replies.
> 
> 
> So I think it is a bug by TB, is'nt it?

I don't think so;-) See above.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Don't take life too seriously; you won't get out of it alive.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Helo error

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 16 Mar 00, at 0:02, Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris wrote
about "Re: Helo error":

> AVK>>> EHLO default
> AGSAA>> ^
> 
> AGSAA>> ...And this is an incorrect (at least not recommended) behaviour.
> 
> :-) Of course I know that it is valid syntax. You (and probably some
> other subscribers) have misunderstood me and this was my fault that
> made this misunderstanding possible :-). I forgot to explain some
> details about incorrect EHLO syntax - now here they are.

Nope, you've been clear enough, it's Syafril who wasn't careful enough when 
reading your message;-) But you probably shouldn't have used the word 
"incorrect". Yeah, it's _in_some_cases_ undesirable (just consider for the 
moment that the SMTP server runs on your own machine: Hamster, or 
Mercury, or some kind of "fake" SMTP like the SMTP<-->UUCP gateway I'm 
using right now, etc. -- in this case it doesn't really matter how the SMTP 
session is initiated, does it?;-)), and hence not recommended (actually, I do 
know that it's not recommended, but can you cite the source where it's clearly 
written? I failed to find it;-)). But in my original message you replied to I just 
wanted to supply the simpliest possible example of _technically_working_ 
syntax in order to explain, why the error message "incorrect HELO syntax" 
seems strange to me.

> It's not recommended to use a fictitious hostnames such as "default"
> when issuing an EHLO or HELO command. Both commands requires FQDN or, at
> least, a domain name as an argument.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all
  possibilities and fail, there will be one solution, simple and
  obvious, highly visible to everyone else.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Using Macros for header (%RETURNPATH="...")

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 15 Mar 00, at 22:17, Stefan Tanurkov wrote
about "Re: Using Macros for header (%RETUR":

> MW> Using the macro
> MW> %RETURNPATH=""%RETURNPATH="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" the
> MW> Return-Path in the header is setting to "Return-Path:
> MW> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>", that is right. But if I save the
> MW> message (as draft for example), change the message and save it again,
> MW> "Return-Path" is set to my reply-address. The Return-Path is now
> MW> "Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]". That is _not_ what I want.
> 
> But it is exactly what must be in the field accordingly to RFC-822...

...and Stefan is right (as always;-)) here: you should *not* set the return-path 
yourself, on the user side you should limit yourself to altering the Reply-To: 
header... because return-path: is subject to be set/changed/altered by the 
SMTP server...

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  To every rule there is an exception,
 and vice versa.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: TB! Version info

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 14 Mar 00, at 20:26, Mark Aston wrote
about "Re: TB! Version info":

> S> I take it you are not a big fan of speedy little shell extensions Mark :)
> 
> Well since  I  installed  W2k  on  my  166  *nothing* could be
> described  as  even  remotely  'speedy'  :-)  so I tend not to install
> anything which could make it even slower.

Gee! Reminds me of an old joke that Win98 turns ones PentiumII back to the 
486;-) BTW, has anybody the up-to-date "magic number" for Win2k? (i mean, 
the number of bugs found in the current build;-)))


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  If you can't make it good, make it big.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 


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Re: Helo error

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 13 Mar 00, at 22:30, John Killeen wrote
about "Helo error":

> SEND: server reports error. The response is: syntactically invalid HELO
> argument(s).

Get hold of the SMTP session log and send it to RIT labs;-) I've got no other 
ideas right now. Usually, the SMTP session is started this (or similar) way:

EHLO your.machine.ID

(in the case when your SMTP server is in fact an ESMTP) or:

HELO your.machine.ID

in the other case.

Actually, this might be, for example:

EHLO default

or whatever.

There's not much room in here for a "syntactically invalid arguments", IMO;-)

> Which means nothing to me. I have been trying for hours and getting the same
> message. I can however, send via Outlook 98 (hence this mail). Anyone any
> ideas? I'm using v1.39/W95.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the
  bread to butter.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: How to open attached files with ".EML" file extensions?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 14 Mar 00, at 8:52, Uwe Brockmann wrote
about "Re: How to open attached files with .EML...":

Hello guys, I'm not even trying to shed some light to the problem discussed 
by you (although if I were you, I'd first of all compare the IE versions you've 
got outta there;-) IMHO, *.eml is one of the filetypes used by this 
"application", which might or might not affect how TB works with these files, 
depending on other M$ stuff you've got installed. FWIW, I've got win'95 
OSR2 build b Russian, some traces (maybe) of MSIE 3.0 -- although I 
did my best to get rid of it completely, and both MSGs and ELMs are 
opened by TB internally here. Besides, no Outlook installed here;-)). 

Now just in case I'm providing some information that might have escaped 
you. Both *.msg and *.eml files are just "invented" by TB. For example, 
when a message comes that has a message/rfc822 attachment, TB will 
display this attached message as something like .msg. Note that 
there were *absolutely nothing* in the original message that claimed that 
this attachment needs to get this name (!!!). In my understanding, this is a 
major shortcoming of TB internals, which has been discussed on this list 
more then once, BTW. 

Now as for the *.eml filenames. Again, these are "invented" (or, well, say 
"introduced", it really doesn't matter too much;-)) by TB internally under the 
following circumstances: *if* the incoming message has a message/rfc822 
attachment, *which*, in turn, has a message/rfc822 attachment *itself*. This 
latter attached message is denoted as .eml by TB (God knows why;-
)) 

So the dry remainder of all this discussion is: the person who has sent you 
the message *did not* attach neither *.msg nor *.eml files to it (sic!).

Meanwhile, this your message I'm replying to reveals a (_serious_) bug in 
TB treatment of message/rfc822 attachments. Look below.

> To illustrate the problem, I enclose two identical copies of a sample
> .EML file that I created with Microsoft Outlook Express.  The first
> attachment is named "sample.eml".  The second attachment is named
> "sample.msg".

...And here's how it looked like (my comments inside):

19111A12FA030F5
Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="sample.eml"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sample.eml"

 This IS a bug! A Content-type: message/rfc822 _implies_ (see 
RFCs) that there the content-transfer-encoding is to be set to either 7bit or 
8bit, other types are prohibited... But:


MIME-Version: 1.0

ZXJzaW9uOiAxLjANCkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTogbXVsdGlwYXJ0L2FsdGVybmF0aXZlOw0KCWJvdW5k
YXJ5PSItLS0tPV9OZXh0UGFydF8wMDBfMDAwNF8wMUJGOEQ2NC4zNDAxMjcwMCINClgtUHJpb3Jp


 You see, this was supposedly a base64-encoded block, but 
without properly set content-transfer-encoding this is nothing but crap;-( 
Anyhow, the base64 was _not_ allowed for this part, see above and RFCs


19111A12FA030F5
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="sample.msg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sample.msg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

RnJvbTogIlV3ZSBCcm9ja21hbm4iIDx1d2VAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IA0KTUlNRS1W
ZXJzaW9uOiAxLjANCkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTogbXVsdGlwYXJ0L2FsdGVybmF0aXZlOw0KCWJvdW5k


OTOH, this part is all right, but _why_on_earth_ the content-transfer-encoding 
has been set _twice_ here really escapes me!!!


So well, I'm CCing it as a bug report to RIT labs, of course;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Possible bug / problem

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 16 Feb 00, at 21:44, JWorley wrote
about "Possible bug / problem":

>  I work with a bunch of Outlook / MS Office users and have noticed
>  something strange.  Whenever they forward a message to me that has an
>  attached document I do not get the attached file.  The Bat shows that
>  the message has an attachment.  But it will be displayed as something
>  like 7.MSG.  When I open it all I see is a blank message.  

In fact when you open it, you see a _message_having_blank_textual_part, but 
_containing_an_attachment_. Please ensure (in the message viewer!) that you 
have "show attachments automatically" or "always" ticked.

The MIME structure of such messages is: a message, to which another 
message is MIME-attached, this last message having an empty textual part 
and one or more attachments. It's insane structure all right, but M$ mailers are 
made by idiots, always remember this;-)

P.S. My apologies Marck, but this specific case has nothing to do with ms-
tnefs. It's another (although sad also) problem...
P.P.S. This is my last message to TBUDL for (at least:-)) the next 3 weeks, I'm 
temporarily desactivating my subscription since I'm leaving St.Pb tomorrow. 
See ya, guys;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Speed Kills - Use Windows!

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: The Bat! - bug report

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 14 Feb 00, at 11:54, Nick Andriash wrote
about "Re: The Bat! - bug report":

> > PMMail2000.
> 
> I tried that Program a while back, and a few things I found I didn't like.
> For one, I just couldn't get PMMail to thread messages. It would group the
> messages of the same subject like Eudora does, but it wouldn't thread
> them. Secondly, I couldn't change the colour of quoted text. Thirdly, it
> has the poorest spell checker I've ever seen, and no additional
> dictionaries to complement the bastardised version they use. Fourthly
> well, there was no fourthly... I gave up on it after that.

I would like to add that PMMail has the poorest miltilingual support I've ever 
seen. The other MUAs available just tell you frankly: yes, I can do this or: no, I 
can't do this. PMMail, contrary to that, _pretends_ to support the MIME 
multilingual extensions as covered by RFCs 2045 and 2047, but actually sends 
out trash and can't read properly formatted mail. I discovered this only 'coz I'm 
in a habit of checking this part of functionality in full details.

> Perhaps I didn't give it long enough, but when I realised that it couldn't
> thread messages... or if it could, I certainly didn't find a way... I
> dumped it and found TB... and have been here ever since. :o)

Almost the same here: when I found it can't do what I need, I kicked it off. It 
was installed on my machine for maybe a couple of hours...

BTW. I never was really sure whether the development of PMMail is going on 
still or has been already stopped.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the
  bread to butter.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Why not highlighting the newest message in the folder ?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 13 Feb 00, at 17:34, Januk Aggarwal wrote
about "Re: Why not highlighting the newest...":

> > For Russian, it _is_. It's all the same as for you. When I need to
> > start typing Russian rather then English (or whatever Latin-based
> > language), I just press right Ctrl button once, which switches the
> > keyboard.
> 
>  I did not realize that, so it is much like my toggling Caps Lock. 

Yes, indeed. 

>  So if I am typing in the editor and want to delete the next character, I can
> use ctrl-g (I don't know why I would use that particular keystroke, but I'm
> using your example.) When you switch between Russian and Latin layouts using
> the ctrl key, does the behaviour of presssing and holding ctrl and the key
> labeled as G change? (Does that question make sense?) 

It does make sense. As for you question: the Ctrl-G is different from just Ctrl. 
If you press and hold Ctrl, then press G, then release Ctrl, the keyboard is 
_not_ switched. It only gets switched if you press and then release Ctrl without 
pressing anything else. The current state of keyboard is displayed in the 
system tray, moreover, I've set it up so that it issues a sound when the 
keyboard gets switched.

BTW, the Windows default keyboard switching mechanism only offers you 
two keycombos for switching the keyboard: Ctrl-Shift or Alt-Shift. These two 
are really outrageous, therefore I've installed a specialized application 
(KeyRus) that makes the additional bells and whistles available, like switching 
keyboard with just Ctrl key. 

> > The alphabetical buttons are labeled twice each on Russian keyboard,
> > so having switched the keyboard I just proceed typing without any
> > modifiers, but the same buttons get completely different effect when
> > pressed.
> 
>  Ok, to reword my question above, what if you were pressing any
>  modifiers, does the behaviour of the other keys change when you are
>  in the two different layouts?

If the application is correctly coded, no. But if it's not, then the answer is yes. 
Example of correct behaviour: Word (yes;-)): Ctrl-S saves the document 
regardless the current layout. Example of incorrect behaviour: Pegasus and 
Netscape. Keyboard shortcuts work only when the keyboard is switched to 
English.

> > For example, "G" gives "ð" when Russian keyboard layout is active.
> 
>  So other than the labeling, is there *anything* different about your
>  keyboard to a Standard English Keyboard? 

Nope, nothing. *Any* keyboard can be made Russian: to do so, one just 
needs to re-label the keys. This is usually done by Russians when working 
abroad. Note however that the European keyboards *are* different from the 
Standard English ones: on Swedish one, to get the $ symbol is quite an 
outrageous task;-((

> Or is the function of an international keyboard based entirely on software? 

This is exactly the case with Russian.

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something
  to stick in his mouth.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Why not highlighting the newest message in the folder ?

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 13 Feb 00, at 16:40, Januk Aggarwal wrote
about "Re: Why not highlighting the newest":

> > TB!'s keyboard navigation is another thing for me. I resist
> > learning it because I simply *KNOW* that there is no reason whatsoever
> > for it to be so cranky and awkward.
> 
>  It is awkward for me, considering I use a standard English keyboard,
>  and so I'm not used to double modifiers and the such.  But for people
>  who are used to languages with many more symbols than English, is it
>  really that bad?  

For Russian, it _is_. It's all the same as for you. When I need to start typing 
Russian rather then English (or whatever Latin-based language), I just press 
right Ctrl button once, which switches the keyboard. The alphabetical buttons 
are labeled twice each on Russian keyboard, so having switched the 
keyboard I just proceed typing without any modifiers, but the same buttons get 
completely different effect when pressed. For example, "G" gives "ð" when 
Russian keyboard layout is active.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  The bag that breaks is the one with the eggs.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Header question

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 12 Feb 00, at 23:44, Tom Plunket wrote
about "Header question":

> I'm on this mailing list that sets Resent-Reply-To to the list address
> instead of setting Reply-To at all. Is this appropriate? If so, TB!
> doesn't honor it. Should it? Certainly fits into the idea of not
> munging the headers in the case that the Reply-To was already set...

>From the RFC822 (HTH;-)):

 4.2.  FORWARDING

  Some systems permit mail recipients to  forward  a  message,
 retaining  the original headers, by adding some new fields.  This
 standard supports such a service, through the "Resent-" prefix to
 field names.

  Whenever the string "Resent-" begins a field name, the field
 has  the  same  semantics as a field whose name does not have the
 prefix.  However, the message is assumed to have  been  forwarded
 by  an original recipient who attached the "Resent-" field.  This
 new field is treated as being more recent  than  the  equivalent,
 original  field.   For  example, the "Resent-From", indicates the
 person that forwarded the message, whereas the "From" field indi-
 cates the original author.

  Use of such precedence  information  depends  upon  partici-
 pants'  communication needs.  For example, this standard does not
 dictate when a "Resent-From:" address should receive replies,  in
 lieu of sending them to the "From:" address.

 Note:  In general, the "Resent-" fields should be treated as con-
taining  a  set  of information that is independent of the
set of original fields.  Information for  one  set  should
not  automatically be taken from the other.  The interpre-
tation of multiple "Resent-" fields, of the same type,  is
undefined.

  In the remainder of this specification, occurrence of  legal
 "Resent-"  fields  are treated identically with the occurrence of
 fields whose names do not contain this prefix.


-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall not be
  disappointed.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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Re: Fwd: mime type application/ms-tnef

[Alexander V. Kiselev]

Hi there!

On 11 Feb 00, at 13:51, David Elliott wrote
about "Fwd: mime type application/ms-tnef":

> I am starting to receive emails with attachments with a MIME type of 
> application/ms-tnef.
> 
> What is this type? (apart from a devious Microsoft plot) 
> Are there any tools for reading these attachments under Linux?

I would think it's on Leif's "howdoi" page, but if it's not... Well, ms-tnef may 
hide those silly background images (in most cases it does so), but in special 
cases it might have some valuable data in it. I believe, M$ mailers do make 
these tnefs when the user "includes" the file into the message body rather 
then attaches it.

To handle it, you need, for example, Fentun from 
http://twain.softhome.net/fentun/

D/load and install it.

As for the Linux question, I have no idea as to where to get a decoder for 
tnefs. To be frank, I just delete this crap without further consideration. If a 
person is dumb enough to send it rather then properly formatted MIME, I 
really couldn't care less about what he had to say to me;-)

-- 
SY, Alex
(St.Petersburg, Russia)
http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev
--- 
Thought for the day:
  Any stone in your boot always migrates against the pressure
  gradient to exactly the point of most pressure.

--- 
PGP public keys on keyservers:
0xA2194BF9 (RSA);   0x214135A2 (DH/DSS)
fingerprints:
F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6  7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA)
A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589  9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) 
--- 

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