Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Depends on the legs -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Swallow Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:20 AM To: Beth Agnew Cc: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be? That is both brilliant and funny! Thanks! On 8/2/07, Beth Agnew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone once said, Length like a mini-skirt -- short enough to get people's attention, long enough to cover the essentials. :-) DISCLAIMER: Important Notice * This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
What works for you may work just fine. But you have two hiring managers here who've told you um, nope, don't read 'em if they are that long. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable working with a manager who places more priority on format than on contentare there also any fonts that make you not read a resume? is my resume good if I use Arial, but not Helvetica? What other types of documents do managers such as yourself not read because they don't meet an arbitrary page length standard? As a part of policy, do you ignore Functional Specs if they're over a certain page length? Do you not review department deliverables if they exceede some page length? I'm sure with enough effort, any Functional or Technical spec can be brought down to two pages...of course, it wouldn't say much about the project. Where did this 2-page standard come from, anyway? Is the person behind a 2 page resume also automatically a more qualified writer than one with a 3 page resume? John Posada Senior Technical Writer They say everyone needs goals. Mine is to live forever. So far, so good. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
John Posada wrote: Where did this 2-page standard come from, anyway? Is the person behind a 2 page resume also automatically a more qualified writer than one with a 3 page resume? Hi John, It's not really the overall length of the resume that matters. I think the point is that you need to consider carefully the information that you include about individual positions. Many hiring managers have a problem with lengthy resumes because a lot of what's there is the same things repeated for each job or too much meaningless detail (for example, do we need to know that someone could type 40 wpm at a job back in 1993, 60 wpm at a job in 2000, and 75 wpm at a current job?). If each of your jobs is unique and bears having a lot said about it, as you indicated that your jobs were, then by all means do it. The variety of jobs could sound wonderfully exciting and make you look well-rounded. But if your jobs are similar and you present the same bulleted list for each one, you're going to bore the readers and possibly get your resume prematurely added to the round file. As I wrote yesterday, when it got to where I was telling people that I used Adobe FrameMaker to produce PDF and printed manuals for every job, it was time to figure out a different way to present the information. By the time someone read that for the third time, they'd probably be thinking, Yes, I know. But what else can you do? Now I put less emphasis on the individual jobs and more emphasis on my overall skills. My resume contains the same information, but certain things are only there once instead of multiple times. I probably shaved off a full page of repeated information. Essentially, I treat my resume the same way that I would any other document or manual that I write. When you're in our field, it's not just what you did/do that matters. You also have to consider how you present your personal information because it's a reflection on your skills. If your resume is lengthy simply because you repeated too much or gave too much detail, it's going to make it appear that you can't organize information or figure out when to quit. If you have a short resume that doesn't include enough, it's going to appear that you don't know how to analyze what your audience needs. However, if you can strike a good balance between them, you're going to really impress someone and maybe get that desired call for an interview. Donna - CONFIDENTIAL- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email and then delete this email. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
On 8/2/07, Dori Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrote system specifications. -- Designed and wrote new easy-to-use system specifications documents that reduced help desk calls by 50%, a $40,000 annual savings. Notice that the second version contains more words. Just thinking out loud here, but maybe you could go with: Reduced help desk calls by 50%, saving $40K annually. and leave it to them to ask you how. -- Milan Davidovic http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Milan Davidovic edited: Reduced help desk calls by 50%, saving $40K annually. and leave it to them to ask you how. Sure, that would work. Dori Green __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Reduced help desk calls by 50%, saving $40K annually. and leave it to them to ask you how. Sure, that would work. Well, yeah, but you might have done that by unplugging half the phones. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
On 8/2/07, Laura Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, yeah, but you might have done that by unplugging half the phones. Right. -- Milan Davidovic http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Someone once said, Length like a mini-skirt -- short enough to get people's attention, long enough to cover the essentials. :-) I am not at all ashamed of my 7-page resume. All it does, anyway, is prove I've applied for the right job. The cover letter, to me, is the most important part of any job application. The cover letter gets you the interview; the interview gets you the job. If I can't convince you to phone me in the first paragraphs of my cover letter, I've failed. I have sent potential employers resumes that were very much non-standard. When I applied to TSN (The Sports Network) for a multimedia job, instead of sending a resume, I sent my sports trading card. Got the interview and the job. When I was applying for newsletter jobs, I sent resumes in the form of a newsletter layout. I have sent some crazy resumes -- and they have been a good filter. If you don't like my approach to a resume, you sure as heck are not the kind of employer I'd want to work for. Saves us both a lot of time. --Beth -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jones, Donna Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:01 PM To: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be? ... Not so short that you lose the details, but not so long that it sounds like an infomercial. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Beth Agnew wrote: I have sent some crazy resumes -- and they have been a good filter. If you don't like my approach to a resume, you sure as heck are not the kind of employer I'd want to work for. Saves us both a lot of time. *** LOL, one of my most creative resumes (and one of my favorite jobs) was the Resume As Quality Manual and SOPs. And I certainly agree -- I'm going to spend 1/3 of my waking hours with the employer. My family doesn't get as much contact with me. It should be worth the effort. Dori Green __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
...surfacing from lurker mode... John wrote...are there also any fonts that make you not read a resume? Wingdings and Webdings (if used for the entire resume) ...dive, dive, dive... __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Beth Agnew wrote: I have sent some crazy resumes -- and they have been a good filter. If you don't like my approach to a resume, you sure as heck are not the kind of employer I'd want to work for. Saves us both a lot of time. Unfortunately these days most resumes seem to be filtered by recruiters, HR outsourcing shops, and computers before they ever get to the employer. Since all of these of entities clearly have little creativity or sense of humor, it behooves one to stick to a standard-issue resume format. IMHO. FWIW my resume is 2.5 pages and covers 20 years and 12 jobs. Laura -- *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ Laura Lemay Killer of Trees lemay % lne.comlemay % gmail.com http://www.lauralemay.com http://blog.lauralemay.com *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
I use Symbol when applying for jobs in Greece ... swipe the entire document and change to Symbol: voila! Of course, you might have to adjust your page and paragraph breaks Cheers, Sean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gilbert, Brian Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:44 PM To: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be? ...surfacing from lurker mode... John wrote...are there also any fonts that make you not read a resume? Wingdings and Webdings (if used for the entire resume) ...dive, dive, dive... DISCLAIMER: Important Notice * This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
IMHO, Long enough to communicate your message and shorter than this thread. Perhaps include the TOC and cover, but exclude a LOF and LOT. Mine? 2 pages. Me, 2.5 pages? I'd pad out to a full 3. Cheers, Sean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laura Lemay Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:57 PM To: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be? Beth Agnew wrote: I have sent some crazy resumes -- and they have been a good filter. If you don't like my approach to a resume, you sure as heck are not the kind of employer I'd want to work for. Saves us both a lot of time. Unfortunately these days most resumes seem to be filtered by recruiters, HR outsourcing shops, and computers before they ever get to the employer. Since all of these of entities clearly have little creativity or sense of humor, it behooves one to stick to a standard-issue resume format. IMHO. FWIW my resume is 2.5 pages and covers 20 years and 12 jobs. DISCLAIMER: Important Notice * This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Bah. I want to review 2 pages. I want the content to be fulfilling. I want the fonts and formats to be spot on. I want to be able to say, promising, has the elements I'm looking for, let's invite him to present his portfolio Why 2 pages? Because I have my regular job to do and, oh by the way, 12 resumes to read, a half-dozen interviews to conduct, for which I have no time, so I want two pages. Why care about fonts? Having received resumes with curiously bad font choices, I have to say if it's the first or second resume, I might not disregard a resume with fonts that I PERCEIVE as difficult to read, but by the time I hit my third resume, forget it, timing was not on your side. Why care about layout? Make the resume easy to read, use indents and white space to help me find my way through, be consistent in the application of styles, reduce, reduce, reduce, the number of fonts used (please, one is fine, sometimes two). Why care about content? I'm interested in seeing how your resume matches my job. In other words, I expect you worked before, and I bet in a lot of those jobs, you did nice things well that I don't really care about. Look at the job description and, where possible, write your resume to tell you about things you've done in the past that apply to your current application. If I get a DOC file, I take a look at style use as an indication of the writer's thought process--I know, it's a resume, why waste time on bothering with styles? Well, because it shows you care about them, and I do, and seeing style use is a plus. If I get a PDF, I look for embedded fonts, scan the metadata to see if anything interesting is in there, and such. Make sure you are consistent. Make sure you spell product names correctly. Make sure there are no typos or spelling mistakes. Cheers, Sean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Posada Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:48 AM To: Sue Heim Cc: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be? What works for you may work just fine. But you have two hiring managers here who've told you um, nope, don't read 'em if they are that long. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable working with a manager who places more priority on format than on contentare there also any fonts that make you not read a resume? is my resume good if I use Arial, but not Helvetica? What other types of documents do managers such as yourself not read because they don't meet an arbitrary page length standard? As a part of policy, do you ignore Functional Specs if they're over a certain page length? Do you not review department deliverables if they exceede some page length? I'm sure with enough effort, any Functional or Technical spec can be brought down to two pages...of course, it wouldn't say much about the project. Where did this 2-page standard come from, anyway? Is the person behind a 2 page resume also automatically a more qualified writer than one with a 3 page resume? John Posada Senior Technical Writer DISCLAIMER: Important Notice * This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
I want to review 2 pages. I want the content to be fulfilling. I want the fonts and formats to be spot on. I want to be able to say, promising, has the elements I'm looking for, let's invite him to present his portfolio Why 2 pages? Because I have my regular job to do and, oh by the way, 12 resumes to read, a half-dozen interviews to conduct, for which I have no time, so I want two pages. Even with a resume over two pages, you should know within 2 pages (probably even the first page) if the person is on the right track. If the person is, you stop reading and make the call. If you aren't sure, you can check further to see the person has a particular skill that rings your bell. John Posada Senior Technical Writer They say everyone needs goals. Mine is to live forever. So far, so good. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
The two-page recommendation is generic, and I think probably good advice to someone nonprofessional or whose job descriptions tend to be repetitive from position to position over time. The main reason I said resume length was not of great importance to me is that I can't remember the last time I received a writer resume in hard copy. Usually, the only printed resumes I see are from people I've been asked to meet with who are interviewing with other groups, and I expect to be skimming through unrelated data in those looking for items of interest that tell me how that person will work with tech writers. When going through a writer application in soft copy, the primary issues are 1) will a 10-second scan of the cover letter cause me to want to open the resume, and 2) will a to-second scan of the resume first page cause me to want to hit the Page Down key or to close the file? Gene Kim-Eng - Original Message - From: John Posada [EMAIL PROTECTED] To be honest, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable working with a manager who places more priority on format than on contentare there also any fonts that make you not read a resume? is my resume good if I use Arial, but not Helvetica? What other types of documents do managers such as yourself not read because they don't meet an arbitrary page length standard? As a part of policy, do you ignore Functional Specs if they're over a certain page length? Do you not review department deliverables if they exceede some page length? I'm sure with enough effort, any Functional or Technical spec can be brought down to two pages...of course, it wouldn't say much about the project. Where did this 2-page standard come from, anyway? Is the person behind a 2 page resume also automatically a more qualified writer than one with a 3 page resume? __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Well, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gene Kim-Eng Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:09 PM To: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be? The two-page recommendation is generic, and I think probably good advice to someone nonprofessional or whose job descriptions tend to be repetitive from position to position over time. I recommend working on the two-pager to make it relevant for each job and to include the information that is important in highlighting one's potential worth. The main reason I said resume length was not of great importance to me is that I can't remember the last time I received a writer resume in hard copy. I've seen a few, usually hand mine out on bond paper at an interview. I often print resumes I review, but, even so, more than two pages online is getting lengthy. Can't one say it in two? For some, no, and that's fine if the resume supports the reason for the extra length. But, really, as a means to get a foot in the door, try for two. I have a lot to read. Please, make it two. Usually, the only printed resumes I see are from people I've been asked to meet with who are interviewing with other groups, and I expect to be skimming through unrelated data in those looking for items of interest that tell me how that person will work with tech writers. So, would not a pithy two-pager make things easier for you? Or, do you have only one or two resumes and plenty of time? When going through a writer application in soft copy, the primary issues are 1) will a 10-second scan of the cover letter cause me to want to open the resume, and 2) will a to-second scan of the resume first page cause me to want to hit the Page Down key or to close the file? So, you don't get to the third page of the resume? Well, if not, I guess 40-page resumes are fine, then. very big grin Cheers, Sean DISCLAIMER: Important Notice * This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail.E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered with without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with IPC. IPC reserves the right, to the extent and under circumstances permitted by applicable law, to retain, monitor and intercept e-mail messages to and from its systems. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
- Original Message - From: Brierley, Sean [EMAIL PROTECTED] I recommend working on the two-pager to make it relevant for each job and to include the information that is important in highlighting one's potential worth. I've seen a few, usually hand mine out on bond paper at an interview. I often print resumes I review, but, even so, more than two pages online is getting lengthy. Can't one say it in two? For some, no, and that's fine if the resume supports the reason for the extra length. But, really, as a means to get a foot in the door, try for two. I have a lot to read. Please, make it two. I don't think there's any such thing as too short for a resume, so long as all the important stuff gets in there. So, would not a pithy two-pager make things easier for you? Or, do you have only one or two resumes and plenty of time? For situation I described (interviewing someone else's candidate who is not a writer) I don't expect any particular level of clarity or quality from the resume. Also, I can skim pretty fast. When going through a writer application in soft copy, the primary issues are 1) will a 10-second scan of the cover letter cause me to want to open the resume, and 2) will a to-second scan of the resume first page cause me to want to hit the Page Down key or to close the file? So, you don't get to the third page of the resume? Well, if not, I guess 40-page resumes are fine, then. very big grin Most of the time the candidate's first page or two is enough for me to form an opinion. I wouldn't necessarily view a 40-page resume as a negative, so long as every page contained something interesting enough to catch my attention. In fact, if someone did send me a truly interesting, attention-getting 40-page resume, I might want to talk to that person simply because I know I sure couldn't write one like that for myself. Gene Kim-Eng __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
[TCP] How long should a resume be?
Spinning off from Donna's question, this came up while we were walking down to get breakfast this morning. 1. How long is your resume? 2. In your opinion, is there a maximum length a resume for someone in our field should be? A quick Google search brought up several web pages. The first link pretty much describes my viewpoint, and my resume. http://www.employmentdigest.net/2007/04/how-long-should-your-resume-be/ My resume info: Length: 2 pages, full Time in this field: 15+ years My education and skills sections are at the bottom of the second page, below my oldest jobs, so if there is some hardball nutcase out there who says, I ONLY look at the first page and throw the rest away, my experience will speak for itself. With the length of time I've spent in this field, plus having worked many, many contract positions over the years, to try and put it all on one page is shortchanging myself. As it is, I've grouped several similar contract positions together to shorten it up, and dropped a few of my oldest contract/temp jobs to keep it at no more than two pages. Additional links on resume length: http://www.careerperfect.com/content/resume-writing-help-resume-length/ http://www.quintcareers.com/resume_length.html http://www.boldcareer.com/blog/archives/2006/02/09/resume_length_how_lon g_should_my_resume_be.html -Carla What America needs is more lovers of children and fewer lovers of things. -H. Roe Bartle Lawyer, banker, cattleman, politician, college president and renowned public speaker. Two-term Mayor of Kansas City in the 50's. Local Scout Executive of several councils of the Boy Scouts of America, where he was nicknamed The Chief while working with American Indians in Wyoming. He helped lure the Dallas Texans American Football League team to Kansas City in 1962, and owner Lamar Hunt liked Bartle's nickname so much that he renamed the franchise the Kansas City Chiefs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Roe_Bartle - CONFIDENTIAL- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email and then delete this email. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
John Posada wrote: 1. How long is your resume? Five pages For any given job that you might want to apply for, does the hiring manager really need to know five pages worth of stuff? If you repeat a lot of the same skills under each job, move them to a bulleted list of your skills in a heading called something like, Professional Writing Skills. You don't need to give gory details about each position you've held, just a summary of each so someone might be interested enough to call you in for an interview. If I was going to hire someone, I can't say that I would even skim past a second page. (Ugh. Too tedious. Into the garbage can with it.) Just my semi-professional 2 cents worth, Donna - CONFIDENTIAL- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email and then delete this email. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
On 8/1/07, Martinek, Carla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spinning off from Donna's question, this came up while we were walking down to get breakfast this morning. 1. How long is your resume? Two pages. 2. In your opinion, is there a maximum length a resume for someone in our field should be? Two pages. I usually won't read a resume that's longer than that. I don't need to know every single thing you've done since the dawn of time. The last 10 years, max. And if you've worked 20 jobs in the last 10 years, I'd be really concerned (even if you're self employed or a contractor, you don't need to list every single contract). Education and affiliations should be a couple of bullets at the end. I don't want to know your hobbies, I don't want to know what conferences you've attended, and I don't want to know your dog's first name. ...sue __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
For any given job that you might want to apply for, does the hiring manager really need to know five pages worth of stuff? If you repeat a lot of the same skills under each job, move them to a bulleted list of your skills in a heading called something like, Professional Writing Skills. Who says they are the same from gig to gig. At one gig, I supported 70 Lotus Notes programmers. At another, I created process-supporting documentation for the sales force of a F500 telecom company. At another, run and build books, data dictionaries, SAP and AS400 docs for the NOC and specs for an EAI ap at an online book retailer. At another, a user guide for 50,000 Western Union cash centers. Then there was the developer documentation for an HR portal, and the online help system for flagship product of the the asset management company...oh, yeah...then there was the gig for writing the internal documentation for the UNIX programmers...you get the picture. I intentionaly look for contracts (until this gig) that were as different from the others as possible. I also don't have a problem finding gigs, even during the dot.bomb period. In 20 years, the longest was three months, and I was being picky, so why fix something that ain't broke. John Posada Senior Technical Writer They say everyone needs goals. Mine is to live forever. So far, so good. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Currently my resume is three pages long. My last update was a quick addition of a new history entry and rather than edit heavily I just let the Education and Traning section at the end roll to a third page. I don't think the overall length of a resume is particularly important. What *is* important is for the first page to make the reader want to look at the rest of the pages. Gene Kim-Eng - Original Message - From: Martinek, Carla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: tcp@techcommpros.com Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:36 AM Subject: [TCP] How long should a resume be? Spinning off from Donna's question, this came up while we were walking down to get breakfast this morning. 1. How long is your resume? 2. In your opinion, is there a maximum length a resume for someone in our field should be? __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
Why not just replace whatever's in your five-page resume with THAT paragraph? Seriously? Not enough content for the HR and agency search engines to grab onto. John Posada Senior Technical Writer They say everyone needs goals. Mine is to live forever. So far, so good. - Original Message From: Andrew Warren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: John Posada [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jones, Donna [EMAIL PROTECTED]; tcp@techcommpros.com Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 3:11:52 PM Subject: RE: [TCP] How long should a resume be? John Posada wrote: At one gig, I supported 70 Lotus Notes programmers. At another, I created process-supporting documentation for the sales force of a F500 telecom company. At another, run and build books, data dictionaries, SAP and AS400 docs for the NOC and specs for an EAI ap at an online book retailer. At another, a user guide for 50,000 Western Union cash centers. Then there was the developer documentation for an HR portal, and the online help system for flagship product of the the asset management company...oh, yeah...then there was the gig for writing the internal documentation for the UNIX programmers...you get the picture. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
There are some jobs that will only be filled by people with detailed resumes that are several pages long. Professorships, ambassadors billets and specialized gigs like the ones John manages to land come to mind. My guess is that John is really good at audience analysis and he writes his resume accordingly. It works for him, but not everyone will benefit by using a five page resume for all TW job openings. Probably, most TW job openings warrant a two-page resume. Tom Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Warren Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 3:30 PM To: John Posada; Jones, Donna; tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be? John Posada wrote: Why not just replace whatever's in your five-page resume with THAT paragraph? Seriously? Not enough content for the HR and agency search engines to grab onto. That's understandable, but sad. It's also not nearly complete. Right, but that's the point. The understated confidence projected by its casual, matter-of-fact presentation is what makes it so powerful. -Andrew === Andrew Warren - [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Synaptics, Inc - Santa Clara, CA __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
Re: [TCP] How long should a resume be?
John Posada wrote: So, no...between real-life instances where a very detailed resume got me gigs, vs several people saying I don't like resumes longer than two pages, I'll go with what has worked for me in the past. That sounds eerily similar to audience analysis to me. Is that allowed? :-) My work experience for the last 14 years or more has revolved largely around writing manuals in FrameMaker and delivering them in PDF or on paper. I hate repeating that for each job, which is why I abbreviated my job descriptions and moved the FrameMaker-related stuff to a section about my skills. It makes both me and my resume appear more professional. I finally had to move to a two-page resume the last time I did one. For the longest time, I stubbornly managed to keep everything on one page, but then I realized that it wouldn't fax well because the text was getting a little crowded. Not that many people want faxed resumes any more. Sending things electronically is SO much easier. Donna - CONFIDENTIAL- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, or distribute this message. If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email and then delete this email. __ Author Help files and create printed documentation with Doc-To-Help. New release adds Team Authoring Support, enhanced Web-based help technology and PDF output. Learn more at www.doctohelp.com/tcp. Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com ___ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Need help? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com
