Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question

[Lyndon Tiu]

Crapmaggedon?


On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 19:29:04 -0800 (PST) djhe...@swbell.net wrote:
> Would it be a craptastrophe?
> 

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] guano question

[Don Arburn]

Surveying up through the center of Punkin. Every move threatened us  
with death by drowning in guano.


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2008, at 9:40 PM, David  wrote:


I am just curious which cave passages have you experienced your
worst encounter with bat guano.

For me, it was the last pit in Emerald Sink, but I heard someone tell
me that there is a pit off the main route of the cave which is the  
worst

they have ever seen.

Another time near Ocampo in the Sierra Madres, we were in an open
air pit and on some ledges was what appeared to be vampire guano,
but we didn't have to get near it.

I guess being in Bracken or Frio at the peak of the guano freshness
would be another place.

I have also been in water that had a high concentration of bat poop.
The wet entrance of Carrizal can be like that.

I don't think I have ever been waste deep in a slurry of bat guano,
but nearly was on a trip to a pit ( Sotano Molino ? ) just outside of
Gomez Farias.   But I seem to recall reading about someone who has.

David Locklear

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[Texascavers] guano question

[David]

I am just curious which cave passages have you experienced your
worst encounter with bat guano.

For me, it was the last pit in Emerald Sink, but I heard someone tell
me that there is a pit off the main route of the cave which is the worst
they have ever seen.

Another time near Ocampo in the Sierra Madres, we were in an open
air pit and on some ledges was what appeared to be vampire guano,
but we didn't have to get near it.

I guess being in Bracken or Frio at the peak of the guano freshness
would be another place.

I have also been in water that had a high concentration of bat poop.
The wet entrance of Carrizal can be like that.

I don't think I have ever been waste deep in a slurry of bat guano,
but nearly was on a trip to a pit ( Sotano Molino ? ) just outside of
Gomez Farias.   But I seem to recall reading about someone who has.

David Locklear

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Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question

[Don Arburn]

Assalanche?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2008, at 9:29 PM, Devra Heyer  wrote:


Would it be a craptastrophe?

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Geary Schindel   
wrote:

From: Geary Schindel 
Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
To: "Texas Cavers" 
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 3:33 PM



In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on  
steep slopes with any sizeable population present to create a  
situation where there might be a mass movement of snow which would  
be defined as an avalanche.  Colorado and Wyoming are different  
stories as there are serious safety issues with avalanches each year.




There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for  
rock falls in Texas.  One of the better examples is at Big Bend  
National Park where you can see the fresh rock face from the rock  
fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog Canyon, north of the park  
headquarters.  However, Yosemite is probably better known for having  
large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally squash  
people.




If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you  
may have a land slide.  I would assume that there have been a number  
of landslides or slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and  
this might be an issue.  I would assume that it is a fairly unusual  
geohazard.  However, California is famous for their landslides and  
mud slides.




However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most  
probably in Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps).   
During the last mapping trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents  
that contained a fair amount of bat guano at an angle which could  
results in mass movement of the material.  Actually, the material  
probably reached the lower levels of the cave by slumping as there  
were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material.  Our  
group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue.  So, if  
you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche?




G

Re: [ot_caving] Personal Hygiene Tip - NO MORE DEODORANT

[Don Cooper]

Aw come on David!  Be a man!
I used to have some skin tags in that area - but I (somehow) managed to snag
one and tear it.  That did hurt for a while but only because it was a
protracted 'wound' until it finally crusted up and I yanked the rest of it
off with a pair of tweezers.
The other two or three, I cut off with small diagonal cutters ('dikes' or
wire cutters).
Actually, using wire tools to cut skin off your body without anesthetics is
exhilarating!
You think it's really REALLY going to hurt, but almost as a bodily
over-compensation - you'll probably feel quite a rush of endorphins
afterwards.
They'll bleed for a little while but they won't grow back.  And it doesn't
really hurt that much.
(Get them now before they get much larger.)
-WaV

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:08 PM, David  wrote:

> Here are some pretty armpit photos:
>
> http://www.visualdxhealth.com/searchResults/adult_Male_Armpit.htm
>
> I have some very tiny skin protrusions growing under my arms that are
> annoying.
> I have always believed they were related to deodorant as I don't have them
> anywhere else.  I believe these are called "skin tags."
>
> I hope to get them removed someday, however, I don't have a lot of faith
> in dermatologist. One used liquid nitrogen on a small wart on my finger
> 35
> years ago, and it has hurt every day since. I would have been better
> off to cut it myself with a knife.
>
> My other concern is that I scar easy and usually get kelloids when I cut
> myself.
>
> I would think an underarm cut would not heal easily.
>
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> Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
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>
>

Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question

[Devra Heyer]

Would it be a craptastrophe?

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Geary Schindel  wrote:

From: Geary Schindel 
Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
To: "Texas Cavers" 
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 3:33 PM








 
In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep slopes 
with any sizeable population present to create a situation where there might be 
a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an avalanche.  Colorado and 
Wyoming are different stories as there are serious safety issues with 
avalanches each year.
 
There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock falls in 
Texas.  One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park where you can 
see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog 
Canyon, north of the park headquarters.  However, Yosemite is probably better 
known for having large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally 
squash people.
 
If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may have a 
land slide.  I would assume that there have been a number of landslides or 
slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this might be an issue.  I 
would assume that it is a fairly unusual geohazard.  However, California is 
famous for their landslides and mud slides.
 
However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most probably in 
Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps).  During the last mapping 
trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that contained a fair amount of bat 
guano at an angle which could results in mass movement of the material.  
Actually, the material probably reached the lower levels of the cave by 
slumping as there were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material. 
 Our group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue.  So, if you had 
a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche? 
 
G

Re: [ot_caving] Personal Hygiene Tip - NO MORE DEODORANT

[David]

Here are some pretty armpit photos:

http://www.visualdxhealth.com/searchResults/adult_Male_Armpit.htm

I have some very tiny skin protrusions growing under my arms that are annoying.
I have always believed they were related to deodorant as I don't have them
anywhere else.  I believe these are called "skin tags."

I hope to get them removed someday, however, I don't have a lot of faith
in dermatologist. One used liquid nitrogen on a small wart on my finger 35
years ago, and it has hurt every day since. I would have been better
off to cut it myself with a knife.

My other concern is that I scar easy and usually get kelloids when I cut
myself.

I would think an underarm cut would not heal easily.

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Re: [Texascavers] Guanological question

[Don Arburn]

American Heritage perhaps from the French word for ravine: lavanca

Go from there

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2008, at 6:54 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:


At 03:33 PM 12/4/2008, Geary Schindel wrote:
So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a  
crapalanche?


My immediate reaction was that we could, as a philosophical group,  
do better than that. Up front I will offer the following with the  
caveat that I think these two are not even close to the potential.


defacalanché (with accent on the e, just for effect)--def a ka launc 
h hey, the launching of some defacant (too generic for me).


A varient would be guanalanché to be more cave specific.

guarumbe (again pronouncing the final e)--gwa room bey, from guano  
and derumbe, the Spanish word for rock falls or landslides.


Those, of course, are all nouns. Shouldn't there be an active verb  
form for the movement of the stuff? "Three of the 4 team members  
were badly guarumbéd when they passed beneath the Ceiling Chute."


I think the creative juices within the readers of CaveTex oughta be  
able to come up with several other possibilities. Then we should  
vote and put it into use in current publications and send it in to  
Mr Webster.


Riding high on that success, we would be well within our rights to  
come up with a word for the poor sap who gets buried by the  
granalanché.

--Ediger

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[Texascavers] Great LED Lantern

[David]

I have just tested the best LED Lantern that I have yet found.

http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE3-4972951dt.jpg

It is so far better than at least 10 other "lanterns" I have tested,
that I am going
to go out on a limb and call this a "2nd generation" LED lantern.

It appears Rayovac has incorporated all the things I have been proposing
over the past 2 years of posting about LED lights.

I purchased this lantern for $ 35 plus tax at Batteries Plus.

It is small enough that a caver could possibly take it deep into a cave,
and it would light up a large room for their camp for several days.

Here are some of the unique features that separate it from the other
LED lanterns"

1. Light pattern is smooth and 360 degrees.
2. Lantern Globe is easily removable and inside is a masterpiece
of optical engineering.  You can hang the light above your
cookstove and have excellent light for cooking.
3. O-rings ( The light appears to be slightly water-resistant, and would
probably survive falling into a pool of water )
4. Hooks on both top and bottom. ( I mentioned this idea on
the very  first
   LED light that I ever posted about.)
5. Quality is excellent.
6.Excellent diffuser ( I have complained on nearly every lantern,
that a diffuser type
  globe would help improve the light pattern.)
7.Reflecting cone is micro-grooved.   ( I would say ingenious, but
I have mentioned before
  that a smooth cone, seemed to be part of the LED light problem ).
8.3 "D" size batteries.   ( Most of the lamps this smal,l have 4
AA batteries. )   The D's seem
  more practical for a lantern, as you general don't carry it
around a lot, as it just hangs there.
9.   It has a very tiny flashing green light, that only flashes once
every 20 seconds .That is so
  you can find it in the dark, long after the batteries have
burned out.   ( Ingenious )
10.   Rubber coating on some parts to make it more rugged.
11.   Uses 3 bright LED's spaced tightly together, instead of 1 Cree
pointed directly at the
   center of the cone. ( I have mentioned before I thought 1 Cree
was a bad idea. )


I fully recommend this lantern to cavers.  Kudos to Rayovac.

So now we have one awesome lantern available.  Where will the
technology go from here?
Obviously, better batteries would an improvement. Maybe
lithium-ion D size batteries?
I think they could make the lantern more water-resistant, or almost
water-proof.Maybe
someday, the LED's will be more-efficient. That seems likely.

I would like to add something important. I think headlamp makers
need to take a close look at
Rayovac's ingenious optical engineering.  I held this light on my
forehead with the globe
removed and the light pattern was better than the other 50 plus LED
products I have tested.
Surrounding the 3 LED's is a tiny frosted globe, much like on the
Brunton Polaris lantern.
This globe would break on a caving trip, so a headlamp would have to
have replaceable globes.
I read somewhere that this design optically reduces the efficiency of
the light.   I would predict based
on the success of this lantern and Brunton's Polaris that this design
is the direction LED lighting
products are going to use.


David Locklear
Fort Bend County Armchair Cavers Association (FBCACA)

P.S.I would also like to mention that about 8 years ago, Rayovac
gave the Houston
Grotto 10 free flashlights.

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[Texascavers] Guanological question

[Gill Ediger]

At 03:33 PM 12/4/2008, Geary Schindel wrote:

 So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche?


My immediate reaction was that we could, as a 
philosophical group, do better than that. Up 
front I will offer the following with the caveat 
that I think these two are not even close to the potential.


defacalanché (with accent on the e, just for 
effect)--def a ka launch hey, the launching of 
some defacant (too generic for me).


A varient would be guanalanché to be more cave specific.

guarumbe (again pronouncing the final e)--gwa 
room bey, from guano and derumbe, the Spanish 
word for rock falls or landslides.


Those, of course, are all nouns. Shouldn't there 
be an active verb form for the movement of the 
stuff? "Three of the 4 team members were badly 
guarumbéd when they passed beneath the Ceiling Chute."


I think the creative juices within the readers of 
CaveTex oughta be able to come up with several 
other possibilities. Then we should vote and put 
it into use in current publications and send it in to Mr Webster.


Riding high on that success, we would be well 
within our rights to come up with a word for the 
poor sap who gets buried by the granalanché.
--Ediger 



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Re: [Texascavers] RE: Philosophical question

[Lyndon Tiu]

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:51:00 -0600 gprichm...@gmail.com wrote:
> I was thinkin a shit lahar...
> 

If there is a guano volcano uphill ...

... and it rains or the guano mixes with snow and the whole thing melts and 
comes down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahar

Quote: "Lahars have the consistency of concrete: fluid when moving, then solid 
when stopped."

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] RE: Philosophical question

[George-Paul Richmann]

I was thinkin a shit lahar...

--GP

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Fritz Holt  wrote:
> It's getting deep in here. But then, at some point we all have time on our
> hands, for which we don't need gloves.
>
> Fritz
>
>
>
> 
>
> From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:34 PM
> To: Texas Cavers
> Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
>
>
>
>
>
> In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep
> slopes with any sizeable population present to create a situation where
> there might be a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an
> avalanche.  Colorado and Wyoming are different stories as there are serious
> safety issues with avalanches each year.
>
>
>
> There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock falls
> in Texas.  One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park where you
> can see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred on the cliff
> near Dog Canyon, north of the park headquarters.  However, Yosemite is
> probably better known for having large pieces of rock break off and fall and
> occasionally squash people.
>
>
>
> If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may have
> a land slide.  I would assume that there have been a number of landslides or
> slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this might be an issue.  I
> would assume that it is a fairly unusual geohazard.  However, California is
> famous for their landslides and mud slides.
>
>
>
> However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most probably in
> Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps).  During the last mapping
> trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that contained a fair amount of
> bat guano at an angle which could results in mass movement of the material.
> Actually, the material probably reached the lower levels of the cave by
> slumping as there were no active or old bat roosts directly above the
> material.  Our group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue.
> So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche?
>
>
>
> G



-- 
George-Paul Richmann
(513) 490-3100
gprichm...@gmail.com

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texascavers Digest 4 Dec 2008 21:42:03 -0000 Issue 658

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 4 Dec 2008 21:42:03 - Issue 658

Topics (messages 9556 through 9564):

Re: cave restoration
9556 by: Ron Ralph

Longhorn Cavern Project, Saturday, December 6th - Cancelled!
9557 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com

Help Needed at CBSP Saturday, January 17th
9558 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com

Re: Limes
9559 by: Johnson, Russ (ATX)

Re: Cave potential in The Solitario
9560 by: Fritz Holt

Punkin Cave trip report addition/correction
9561 by: Jim Kennedy

Philosophical question
9562 by: Geary Schindel
9563 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
9564 by: Fritz Holt

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
I am holding in my hands about 6 pounds of Cave Conservation and
Restoration, the 2006 Edition, edited by Val Hildreth-Werker and Jim C.
Werker and published by the National Speleological Society. It is 600 pages
thick and may be purchased on-line from the NSS bookstore

http://nssbookstore.org/index.php?mode=store&submode=search&searchfor=hildre
th-werker&action=search  

for $39.00 plus shipping and handling. Makes a great Christmas present and
is sprinkled throughout with photos of Texas cavers. Part 3 Restoration
begins on page 293. I will be glad to loan-out my copy for a quick look-see
should the need arise.

 

Ron

 

  _  

From: Jules Jenkins [mailto:julesje...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:44 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] re: cave restoration

 


I have a request from a UT-Austin geology professor for information about
cave restoration - how to do a cave restoration. I'd appreciate any info.
websites, articles, etc. that I can forward on to this professor.
Specifically, looking for proper methods for lint removal, cleaning
flowstone and other formations,  repairing broken speleothems.

please contact me off list.


thanks,

julie

 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 
The Longhorn project will be taking a holiday vacation until February, 2009.
 
With all of the finals going on at UT, A & M, etc. the response was very low 
and I felt that we wouldn't be able
to conduct the work we need to do (and a thru trip) in a safe and productive 
manner.
 
Some folks suggested moving the weekend, but, I didn't want to conflict with 
the long-established CBSP, which 
is always held the second weekend of each month.
 
Thanks to those few that did say they could make it. Keep your stuff packed up 
and go help Jim a.k.a. "Crash" next 
weekend at CBSP.
 
With Jim's approval, maybe y'all can conduct some experiments on the 
effectiveness of lime deodarant in relation 
to physcial exetrtion.
 
Enjoy!
 
 
Mark 
 
 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 
Are you up for a weekend of caving, being fed lunch and dinner (For Free?!), 
absolutely no work, 
deluxe accomodations at the Conference Center, and a chance to hang out with 
some fun, enthusiastic, energetic kids?
 
I thought you would be!
 
The Girl Scouts of the Austin/SA area are once again having their large Council 
wide campout at CBSP and are looking
for guides to escort the girls and their parents thru a few caves at CBSP 
Saturday, January 17th.
 
We have helped with this the last two years and it has been a lot of fun!
 
Last year, we visited Turtle Shell, Cicurrina, and Gorman Caves and were fed 
exceptionally well by the Scouts.
 
If you'd like to help out and generate interest and attract some future Texas 
cavers, please contact me offline.
 
I'll even bring the limes and you can apply them to your armpits or, in my 
case, I'll be applying them to my cervesas
Saturday night at the Conference Center.
 
 
Thanks and hope to hear from y'all!
 
 
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I'll even bring the limes and you can apply them to your armpits or, 
>in my case, I'll be applying them to my cervesas Saturday night 
 
Whoa there, for a moment I thought you wrote 'crevices'...
 
Russ
Llano

COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and attachments may contain information which 
is company confidential and proprietary. Disclosure or use of any such 
information without the written permission of Weston Solutions, Inc. is 
strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the 
sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank You.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many others like myself who love the outdoors, echo our gratitude. Thanks, 
Dwight.
Geezer


From: Matt Turner [mailto:kat...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:29 PM
To: dirt...@comcast.net
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave potential in Th

[Texascavers] RE: Philosophical question

[Fritz Holt]

It's getting deep in here. But then, at some point we all have time on our 
hands, for which we don't need gloves.
Fritz


From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:34 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question


In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep slopes 
with any sizeable population present to create a situation where there might be 
a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an avalanche.  Colorado and 
Wyoming are different stories as there are serious safety issues with 
avalanches each year.

There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock falls in 
Texas.  One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park where you can 
see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog 
Canyon, north of the park headquarters.  However, Yosemite is probably better 
known for having large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally 
squash people.

If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may have a 
land slide.  I would assume that there have been a number of landslides or 
slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this might be an issue.  I 
would assume that it is a fairly unusual geohazard.  However, California is 
famous for their landslides and mud slides.

However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most probably in 
Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps).  During the last mapping 
trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that contained a fair amount of bat 
guano at an angle which could results in mass movement of the material.  
Actually, the material probably reached the lower levels of the cave by 
slumping as there were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material. 
 Our group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue.  So, if you had 
a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche?

G

RE: [Texascavers] Philosophical question

[Mark . Alman]

 

Pretty good, Geary!

 

 

Maybe Webster's will add this brand new word.

 

Thanks for the chuckle!

 

 

Mark

 

 



From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org] 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:34 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question

 

 

So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a
crapalanche? 

 

G

[Texascavers] Philosophical question

[Geary Schindel]

 

In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep
slopes with any sizeable population present to create a situation where
there might be a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an
avalanche.  Colorado and Wyoming are different stories as there are
serious safety issues with avalanches each year.

 

There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock
falls in Texas.  One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park
where you can see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred
on the cliff near Dog Canyon, north of the park headquarters.  However,
Yosemite is probably better known for having large pieces of rock break
off and fall and occasionally squash people.

 

If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may
have a land slide.  I would assume that there have been a number of
landslides or slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this
might be an issue.  I would assume that it is a fairly unusual
geohazard.  However, California is famous for their landslides and mud
slides.

 

However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most
probably in Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps).  During
the last mapping trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that
contained a fair amount of bat guano at an angle which could results in
mass movement of the material.  Actually, the material probably reached
the lower levels of the cave by slumping as there were no active or old
bat roosts directly above the material.  Our group was having a
philosophical discussion on this issue.  So, if you had a mountain of
guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche? 

 

G

[Texascavers] Punkin Cave trip report addition/correction

[Jim Kennedy]

I was writing the trip report by going through the actual survey notes,
and TOTALLY forgot that we had another team in the cave!  My apologies
to them, I didn't intend to slight them.  Please add the following team
to the report, and change Team Deep Cave to Team six (instead of five).

-- Jim
-

Team five:  "Team Photography"

Allan Cobb led Ann Scott and Alex Benavente on a photo-documentation
tour of Punkin Cave.  Specifically, they were photographing the unique
geologic features of the cave to help illustrate its hypogenic origins.
Rims and vents, lift tubes, air-flow corrosion, wall crusts, and more
were photographed, starting in the southern section of the cave around
the Mortuary Room and through the connection passages to the Entrance
Room.  A presentation is being planned for the ICS next summer.  Much
more photo documentation remains.


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RE: [Texascavers] Cave potential in The Solitario

[Fritz Holt]

Many others like myself who love the outdoors, echo our gratitude. Thanks, 
Dwight.
Geezer


From: Matt Turner [mailto:kat...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:29 PM
To: dirt...@comcast.net
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave potential in The Solitario

Wow, that's some really interesting information. Has there ever been another 
attempt to get something like that going again/would there even be a need?

Sounds like I owe you a million thanks as many of the parks you mentioned 
greatly influenced my love of nature, and I've spent many many hours in them as 
a child and an adult.

Matt Turner

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without 
accepting it." - Aristotle

"Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do 
that."- Norman Vincent Peale



From: "dirt...@comcast.net" 
To: Bill Bentley ; Matt Turner ; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:48:42 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Cave potential in The Solitario
I have spent 8 or 9  months (literally - over about 17 years) in The Solitario 
and Big Bend Ranch in the 70's running the field programs for the Texas Natural 
Areas Survey (NAS) (those reports formed the scientific justification for the 
acquisition of the land from Mr. Anderson), using it as a field location from 
1967 on for numerous university geology programs, and for field trips for the 
Houston Geological Society and the American Association of Petrolium 
Geologists.  I have walked essentially all of The Solitario and Fresno Canyon 
several times and the most likely places for caves many times.  No Luck as far 
as real caves are concerned, although there are many shelters and 
archaeological sites.  Tom Meador also gave it a good shot, with the same 
result.

Some surprise could always show up as I did not crawl over every inch (The 
Solitario is huge and is 7 miles across, essentially filling an entire USGS 
7.5-minute quad), but it has been pretty carefully looked at by some really 
experienced cavers.  Ridge-walking in the Guads has shown us that you can walk 
within a few feet of a significant cave and not know it.  The best geological 
settings in The Solitario and Fesno Canyon for caves, however, are not 
encouraging.

It is remote, geologically fascinating, and  wonderful country.  I suggest you 
visit if you can and try to find something that we did not see.  I am so 
pleased that the NAS field work that I lead for those 6 years resulted in the 
acquisition of Big Bend Ranch as a Texas State Park.  At the time we were doing 
the work, we were definitely not sure if we were doing something meaningful or 
just pissing in the wind.  If you are into scenery and secret waterholes and 
not caves, the west side of Fresno Canyon is even more wonderful.

By the way, other public acquisitions that resulted directly or indirectly from 
the Texas NAS scientific studies included the Lower Canyons of the Rio Grande, 
Mt Livermore, Enchanted Rock (Ernst Kastening did the geology), Rosillos Mts, 
Elephant Mountain, Devil's Stinkhole (I hired Ronnie Fieseler and other Texas 
cavers to help out on that one and some others).  There is at least one other 
special parcel that has only recently been acquired but is being kept quiet as 
ingress and egress is being negotiated.  Other studies included the Franklin 
Mts, Hueco Mts, Matagordo Island, the Breaks of the Canadian River, Capote 
Falls, and the Blue Elbow Swamp on the Lousiana border.  There are some other 
Wildlife Management and other areas that also have benefited.

DirtDoc

-- Original message --
From: "Bill Bentley" 
Matt (Turner),
I was there in September 2007 with a group of hikers for a weekend I 
didn't see anything that looked like a cave or even cave like... We hiked in 
some of the canyons and they look a lot like the ones in Big Bend National 
Park, only not as tall... It is pretty remote and if I remember we hiked about 
13 to 14 miles round trip...

Bill

[Texascavers] RE: Limes

[Johnson, Russ (ATX)]

>I'll even bring the limes and you can apply them to your armpits or, 
>in my case, I'll be applying them to my cervesas Saturday night 
 
Whoa there, for a moment I thought you wrote 'crevices'...
 
Russ
Llano

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[Texascavers] Help Needed at CBSP Saturday, January 17th

[Mark . Alman]

 
Are you up for a weekend of caving, being fed lunch and dinner (For Free?!), 
absolutely no work, 
deluxe accomodations at the Conference Center, and a chance to hang out with 
some fun, enthusiastic, energetic kids?
 
I thought you would be!
 
The Girl Scouts of the Austin/SA area are once again having their large Council 
wide campout at CBSP and are looking
for guides to escort the girls and their parents thru a few caves at CBSP 
Saturday, January 17th.
 
We have helped with this the last two years and it has been a lot of fun!
 
Last year, we visited Turtle Shell, Cicurrina, and Gorman Caves and were fed 
exceptionally well by the Scouts.
 
If you'd like to help out and generate interest and attract some future Texas 
cavers, please contact me offline.
 
I'll even bring the limes and you can apply them to your armpits or, in my 
case, I'll be applying them to my cervesas
Saturday night at the Conference Center.
 
 
Thanks and hope to hear from y'all!
 
 
Mark

[Texascavers] Longhorn Cavern Project, Saturday, December 6th - Cancelled!

[Mark . Alman]

 
The Longhorn project will be taking a holiday vacation until February, 2009.
 
With all of the finals going on at UT, A & M, etc. the response was very low 
and I felt that we wouldn't be able
to conduct the work we need to do (and a thru trip) in a safe and productive 
manner.
 
Some folks suggested moving the weekend, but, I didn't want to conflict with 
the long-established CBSP, which 
is always held the second weekend of each month.
 
Thanks to those few that did say they could make it. Keep your stuff packed up 
and go help Jim a.k.a. "Crash" next 
weekend at CBSP.
 
With Jim's approval, maybe y'all can conduct some experiments on the 
effectiveness of lime deodarant in relation 
to physcial exetrtion.
 
Enjoy!
 
 
Mark