Re: [Texascavers] slides

[Allan Cobb]

The Lounge Lizards played at TCR a couple of time.

On 6/2/2021 2:34 PM, bmorgan...@aol.com wrote:


Are those THE Lounge lizards? As in the Austin lounge Lizards? If so 
the Weazel is highly impressed!


Sleaze

*From:* Texascavers  *On Behalf 
Of *Charles Loving

*Sent:* Wednesday, June 2, 2021 1:20 PM
*To:* Alicia Loving ; quincti...@aol.com; 
Carl Kunath ; Byrd, Tom M ; 
Cavers Texas ; Mills Tandy 
; Diana Tomchick 
; Frances Morey 


*Subject:* [Texascavers] slides

Caver BBQ

--

Charlie Loving


 
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR Caver Storytelling Contest

[Allan Cobb]

I've got my story lined up and can tell it in three minutes.

Allan


On 10/11/2018 2:34 PM, Bill Steele wrote:
Face the challenge, Logan. Practice with a stopwatch. Tell a short 
version of your best story. The prize is $30 for a three minute story, 
or six-hundred bucks an hour.


Bill Steele
speleoste...@aol.com 

On Oct 11, 2018, at 2:23 PM, Logan > wrote:


Excellent Idea! We should have been doing that for years. The 3 
minute rule is understandable, but there are many memorable stories 
that won't be told using that time frame.


On 10/11/2018 10:54 AM, Bill Steele wrote:
Cavers love telling stories. There are countless good ones. Here’s 
your chance to have it pay off.


The DFW Grotto is hosting a Caver Storytelling Contest at TCR. Come 
with your best one at *midnight, Friday, Oct. 19*. Three minutes 
max, with a caver whistle blast to tell you your time is up. 
Time-left cards held up with 2 minutes to go and at 1. To be video 
recorded to put on Facebook, if you agree. The storyteller judged 
best by a panel of judges will win a free TCR registration, to be 
refunded to you by the TCR honchos. Location information will be 
available at the TCR registration booth.


Bill Steele
speleoste...@aol.com 


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[Texascavers] A Little TCR History

[Allan Cobb]

In 1988, 30 years ago, TCR (Texas Old Timer's Reunion as it was called 
then) was scheduled to happen right about this date. The date was 
changed because Hurricane Gilbert was barreling toward Texas. October 
generally has cooler weather so the date stuck and TCR (TOTR) was 
"officially" moved from September to October. Hurricane Gilbert ended up 
going ashore in South Texas and brought "tremendous" amounts of rain to 
South Texas and Northern Mexico.


A group of us went to Mexico and tried to go to Rancho Minas Viejas. The 
road was washed out from the torrential rains. We went to Bustamante 
instead. The road into the canyon was washed out. Water 5 m deep had 
flowed through the canyon downing many big cypress and other trees and 
stripping the rest. The canyon was pretty well scoured. Water had flowed 
through the town of Bustamante about 1 m deep. We went up to Grutas del 
Palmito and were treated to spectacular sights of all the rimstone pools 
in the entrance room having flowing water.


Allan Cobb
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Re: [Texascavers] TCR Registration volunteers!

[Allan Cobb]

I'm with Mr. Loving on this. When I read that line about people without 
wristbands being thrown out, it raised my hackles. I ran TCR for a few 
years. I know the problem of people not registering. However, I never 
would have thrown people out for not registering. Is this what the 
community has devolved into?


There are a few cavers who always attend TCR, TSA Convention, etc. who 
pride themselves on not paying. I know who they are. When I would see 
them, at TCR, I would sometime make a comment to them, sometimes not. 
These are the same people who would pride themselves out of paying a $1 
fee on TSA projects.


There are also cavers who paying the TCR registration would be a huge 
financial burden due to hard times. I usually had a pretty good idea of 
who those were. All they had to do was ask and I would comp them 
registration. I get it, I've had hard times too. Some of them were too 
proud to ask. I knew that too. I would have NEVER thrown those people 
out of TCR. They are part of the community.


I always heard people complain that they should not have to pay because 
they don't want to eat the meal. That's is a good point but the cost of 
the meal is only a small part of the registration fee. I've had people 
ask me to have a fee that doesn't include the meal. To them, I answered 
that the more complicated registration becomes that harder it is to get 
people to do it and the easier to make mistakes.


That said, here's why you SHOULD register for TCR, TSA Conventions, etc. 
These events require money. We have to pay for the site, we pay for 
portapotties, we pay for many incidentals. If you are one of those 
people who think you are too good to pay or it is a game not to pay, you 
are basically stealing from other cavers. You are directly responsible 
for raising the price for all of the cavers who pay. They costs are 
fixed for many of these events. The cost is divided among those who 
attend and pay. If you don't pay, your portion of the cost, your portion 
of the cost is passed on to other cavers. If you choose not to pay, at 
least thank all the people who did pay for paying your share as well.


"Throw people out" for not registering, bad idea. Shame them a bit, I'm 
fine with that. I am no longer running TCR so I don't really have any 
say in how it works. In the past, TCR has always been about bringing 
cavers together, the new cavers and us old cavers. TCR has been about 
friends getting together and hanging out. TCR has always been about 
seeing old friends and making new ones. However, if "throw them out" is 
the spirit of the "new" TCR, perhaps it is time to end this long running 
tradition.


Allan Cobb

Retired TCR Big Cheese and Caver Wrangler



On 8/29/2018 6:23 AM, Charles Loving wrote:
 I wrote a nasty comment on the getting thown out for not having the 
proper identity band but didn't post it.

Old Man Wisdom

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM TSA Membership Chair 
mailto:trog...@cavechat.org>> wrote:


Hi all!

We're still a little over a month out, but I figured I'd start the
waters churning for volunteers to help in shifts for registration.
I've got a number of shifts ranging from 2 to 4 hours that need to
be filled. I'll be there all shifts, but I need one other person
to help me out with paperwork and such for each shift. I also need
an outgoing personality to spend some time on Saturday wandering
to each camp area to make sure everyone has their wristband.

I have been informed that if you don't have a wristband this year,
you will be kicked out... so... y'all should all register as soon
as you get to camp (cash or check only this year!)!
I'll send out a separate email closer to the date with
registration info for those who won't be volunteering, so you know
when registration will be open- dependent on how many volunteers I
can get!

If you are interested in volunteering, let me know in a separate
email and I'll let you know the shifts I've got still available!
My email is trog...@cavechat.org <mailto:trog...@cavechat.org>


Also... we'll have cookies. You know, if you need some incentive
to help.. ;)

Happy caving and even happier volunteering!

-Heather Tucek




-- 
*Go find out!*

-Heather Tuček
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
members...@cavetexas.org <mailto:members...@cavetexas.org>

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Re: [Texascavers] A mobile-camp-kitchen idea.

[Allan Cobb via Texascavers]

This is a pretty good idea. I am of the opinion though that the table 
part takes up space in the box. You would probably be better off with a 
big box like that for stuff and a 4 foot plastic top office table or a 
folding 5 foot table (although I hate those folding tables). It gives 
you more table space and more storage space in the box for less money.


Allan Cobb
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Re: [Texascavers] Digging Question

[Allan Cobb via Texascavers]

Weave tubular sling through it and pull with man-power or a come-along. 
Keep repeating as needed.


Allan


On 12/3/2017 10:08 AM, John Brooks via Texascavers wrote:

I was wondering if anyone had experience or techniques for extracting bailing 
wire plugs from a sinkhole ?

We know where the really good leads are on a ranch because the rancher that 
previously owned the property threw bailing wire into the really nice sinkholes 
to plug the holes up.
We have looped chains through the bailing wire and pulled plugs out of several 
sinkholes successfullyand found several new caves.

The "plugged" sinks are upstream of a very large cave in the recharge area.

But one of the best sinkhole leads has us mystified.

The bailing wire is rusted and fragile. And there is significant organic matter 
captured in the wire mat. So the previous technique is not working.

We have several untested ideas.

But thought someone might have experienced this before. Any ideas ?

Please contact me offline with responses.

John Brooks

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Texascavers] [Texas Cavers Reunion]

[Allan Cobb via Texascavers]

So, TCR is now a week long event?


On 9/11/2017 1:02 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers wrote:

Paradise Canyons gates open after noon this October 12 to the *19th*


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Re: [Texascavers] New Mexico gear restrictions

[Allan Cobb]

If you have ever caved nekkid in Texas, you will not be allowed to cave 
nekkid in New Mexico.


Allan
On 4/26/2017 12:52 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote:

Cave nekkid, I say...

Stefan Creaser
Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM
5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.
Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.
Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com. Skype: stefan_creaser


-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
John Kerr
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 12:47 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] New Mexico gear restrictions

So no clothing, footwear, lights, rope, vertical gear, packs, camping 
equipment, etc. that has ever been in a Texas cave should be brought to New 
Mexico at all, let alone go underground.

Some people may be sporting entirely new wardrobes. ;-)

John Kerr
jck...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:24 AM, Jacqueline Thomas  wrote:

You bet, Mark. It was your question regarding how long ago? that prompted folks 
to ask me to pass on the latest through the remailer. Jacq.


J. LaRue Thomas
jlrtho...@verizon.net



On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:44 AM, mark gee  wrote:

Thanks Jacqui



On Saturday, April 22, 2017 10:35 PM, Jacqueline Thomas  
wrote:


I just got home from the Spring Convention for the Southwest Region and I said 
I would post the gear update since Pd has been identified in Texas:

No Texas gear that has been in a Texas cave can come to New Mexico. We all 
either need new, dedicated gear for NM or we need to borrow New Mexico gear 
when we get there. There is no safe date (as in, “I haven’t caved with this 
gear for 3 years”).

And so it goes. Jacqui


J. LaRue Thomas
jlrtho...@verizon.net


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Re: [Texascavers] Origins of oztotl glyph, primary source?

[Allan Cobb]

Of course, just after I sent this I found the link I was looking for. 
Here is a book on Mapa de Cuauhtinchan II by Tim Tucker and Arturo 
Montero. You can view the entire book at 
http://www.montero.org.mx/books/mapa/mapa.html


Allan

On 4/25/2017 3:18 PM, Allan Cobb wrote:


Jules,

I don't recall any oztotl symbol that looks like the AMCS version on 
any of the Cuauhtinchan maps. The best and most studied map is the 
Mapa de Cuauhtinchan #2 (http://nativebooks.omeka.net/items/show/7). 
It is the most detailed and seems to be the most accurate. I spent 
some time in Puebla working with Tim Tucker locating caves that are 
marked on the map. We found quite a few. The map is pretty accurate 
considering the limitations of the time. I suspect the map is actually 
an extended ritual circuit of caves and mountains that can be followed.


Quite a bit of work has been done on the Cuauhtinchan maps. You can 
some of that research academia.edu. David Carrasco has been doing 
quite a bit of work on the maps and the area. 
(http://unmpress.com/books.php?ID=11369200144480) //


There are several books with high resolution images of the different maps.

On a side note, I did visit a canyon that is marked on the map. The 
canyon wall had a number of man-made caves visible. One of them was in 
the shape of an oztotl. I had hoped to visit that cave but alas we 
didn't have rope and I never got to return.

Allan

On 4/25/2017 2:48 PM, jules rincon wrote:


So, I went down a bit of a wormhole. Does anyone know which of the 
Cuauhtinchan maps Miguel Covarrubias took the drawing for the oxtotl 
cave symbol used for the Mexican Cave Studies 
logo?https://www.cavetexas.org/mexico/oztotl.html 
<https://www.cavetexas.org/mexico/oztotl.html>
 All I can find is that Covarrubias credits a Cuauhtlinchan[sic]  map 
(Puebla) on one of his books, but there are 5 Cuauhtinchan maps and 
they don't look the same style as the drawing he uses.  I've spent 
the past 3 or 4 days googling and eyeballing as many codex, maps, 
dissertations and lienzos as I've been able to find online, and not a 
single illustration for cave glyphs seems to match the logo, in 
particular the lack of eyes and the zigzag. There is a Nochistlan 
vase that has a similar glyph, but not quite. I'm attaching a few 
images I stumbled upon in my search for that variant of oztotl.


Thought I might ask y'all and see if any of you know!

Cheers!
Jules


Please excuse the spelling mistakes. Big thumbs typing on tiny keyboard.



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Re: [Texascavers] Origins of oztotl glyph, primary source?

[Allan Cobb]

Jules,

I don't recall any oztotl symbol that looks like the AMCS version on any 
of the Cuauhtinchan maps. The best and most studied map is the Mapa de 
Cuauhtinchan #2 (http://nativebooks.omeka.net/items/show/7). It is the 
most detailed and seems to be the most accurate. I spent some time in 
Puebla working with Tim Tucker locating caves that are marked on the 
map. We found quite a few. The map is pretty accurate considering the 
limitations of the time. I suspect the map is actually an extended 
ritual circuit of caves and mountains that can be followed.


Quite a bit of work has been done on the Cuauhtinchan maps. You can some 
of that research academia.edu. David Carrasco has been doing quite a bit 
of work on the maps and the area. 
(http://unmpress.com/books.php?ID=11369200144480) //


There are several books with high resolution images of the different maps.

On a side note, I did visit a canyon that is marked on the map. The 
canyon wall had a number of man-made caves visible. One of them was in 
the shape of an oztotl. I had hoped to visit that cave but alas we 
didn't have rope and I never got to return.

Allan

On 4/25/2017 2:48 PM, jules rincon wrote:


So, I went down a bit of a wormhole. Does anyone know which of the 
Cuauhtinchan maps Miguel Covarrubias took the drawing for the oxtotl 
cave symbol used for the Mexican Cave Studies 
logo?https://www.cavetexas.org/mexico/oztotl.html 

 All I can find is that Covarrubias credits a Cuauhtlinchan[sic]  map 
(Puebla) on one of his books, but there are 5 Cuauhtinchan maps and 
they don't look the same style as the drawing he uses.  I've spent the 
past 3 or 4 days googling and eyeballing as many codex, maps, 
dissertations and lienzos as I've been able to find online, and not a 
single illustration for cave glyphs seems to match the logo, in 
particular the lack of eyes and the zigzag. There is a Nochistlan vase 
that has a similar glyph, but not quite. I'm attaching a few images I 
stumbled upon in my search for that variant of oztotl.


Thought I might ask y'all and see if any of you know!

Cheers!
Jules


Please excuse the spelling mistakes. Big thumbs typing on tiny keyboard.



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Re: [Texascavers] Graffiti Removal - Peer Reviewed & Accepted Policies / Procedures

[Allan Cobb]

The NSS Cave Conservation and Restoration book covers this. Additional 
information can be obtained by contacting Val Hildreth-Werker and Jim 
Werker.



On 3/12/2017 10:33 AM, Robert B wrote:
Can anybody point me in the right direction to find any Policies and 
Procedures regarding Graffiti removal in caves.


I have searched the NSS website with no luck. The best I could find is...
https://caves.org/committee/conservation/restoration.shtml

There are times when landowners & local or state Govts might come to 
the Texas caving community (TSA - TCMA - TSS or the many Grottos) to 
request our help with graffiti in their caves.


I would like to have information to give to them and if possible offer 
assistance on removing the graffiti in a manner that has been tried, 
tested and works best for the cave environment.


Regards
Rob Bisset
TSA Chairman - chair...@cavetexas.org 



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Re: [Texascavers] Bats can fly horizontally at 100mph

[Allan Cobb via Texascavers]

One could also argue that a peregrine falcon is not a mammal, too. ;)

Allan Cobb
On 11/10/2016 12:56 PM, Gregg Williams via Texascavers wrote:
John, I don't think you can call them the fastest moving mammal since 
the Peregrine falcon dives at around 200 mph. I guess you could argue 
that the falcon isn't really propelling itself at 200 mph and just 
really good at falling fast.


Gregg

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Jon Cradit via Texascavers 
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote:


At that speed wouldn’t they also be the fastest moving mammal too.

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*From:*Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com
<mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com>] *On Behalf Of *Lee
H. Skinner via Texascavers
*Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:29 AM
*To:* SWR Mailing List mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>>; texascavers list
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>>; Sandia Grotto
mailto:memb...@sandiagrotto.org>>
*Subject:* [Texascavers] Bats can fly horizontally at 100mph

Scientists studying the flight of Brazilian free-tailed bats have
clocked the creatures zipping along at 160 km/h (100 mph), making
them the fastest horizontal flyers in the entire animal kingdom.

http://bit.ly/2eWg5TQ


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Re: [Texascavers] TCR cooks wrap-up (sort of...)

[Allan Cobb via Texascavers]

Stefan,

I want to publicly thank you for your decade of cooking. You took lots 
of stress out of TCR while I was running. When you first came to me and 
said you wanted to take over cooking, I was skeptical. You proved me 
wrong and have done a great job over the years. All I can say is


*THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU*.

Allan


On 10/19/2016 12:31 AM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers wrote:


The coolers are washed and put away, the recycling sorted (thanks all 
for only 0.5% trash in there!) and put out, bills paid… Only the 
washing up and re-pack of the trailer to go…


Would like to thank the Aggies for another **outstanding** 
contribution – helping cook, serve, wash up after (!!), dismantle tent 
and re-pack of trailer. We could not do the weekend without their 
help, and it is **very** much appreciated.


The following people were largely responsible for getting all y’all 
fed  -  Cammy and Vico Jones, Sean Vincent, Laura, Jocie Hooper, Eric 
Flint, Rob Upchurch, and a host of choppers (too many to list), 
stirrers and last minute shoppers (Ken Demarest)! I want to thank them 
for all their hard work, and putting up with me being a miserable  
all Saturday! Oh, and Sam Marshall for hauling the new trailer to and 
from TCR.


I have been chief cook and bottle washer for 10 TCRs now and the time 
has come for me to hang up my spoon and apron, and pass the trailer 
keys to a new, more enthusiastic, volunteer. It has been an 
interesting ride, but I need to enjoy Paradise Canyon from the other 
side of the pot sometime.


If you have the desire to take this on – lead a team of enthusiastic 
volunteers of your making, cooking food for your greater circle of 
friends, then please get in touch asap and we’ll pass on some wisdom 
before our old brains erase it.


So long, and thanks for all the chillies.

-Stefan

Stefan Creaser

Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM

5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA.

Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012.

Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com . Skype: 
stefan_creaser


IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose 
the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or 
copy the information in any medium. Thank you.



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Re: [Texascavers] related to a caver obituary

[Allan Cobb via Texascavers]

I caved with Mason a few times around Texas before we went to Huautla in 
1988. His first big trip into San Augustin was probably taking a duffel 
of camp supplies down to the staging area at 600 m before it would be 
moved to Camp 3. Mason hobbled into the kitchen with each foot wrapped 
in a bandana. He sat down in a chair. Someone asked what was wrong and 
he said his boots had given him blisters and he didn't know if he would 
be able to cave again.


Being good cavers, someone asked him to show us his blisters. He 
unwrapped his feet and showed us his blisters. My feet reflexively 
winced in pain when I saw his blisters. On the arch of each foot, he had 
huge, raw, open blisters that were like looking into Hell. They were 
huge, they were VERY painful looking.


I believe it was Jim Smith who said, "Grab one of those pickled 
/jalapeños /from that jar and slap it on your blister. Rub it around 
really good and it will make them heal faster." This, of course, made 
everyone laugh because it was such an obviously stupid suggestion. Mason 
grabbed the jar of /jalapeños/, fished one out, and, like a good Aggie, 
slapped it on his hellish looking, raw, open blister that was the size 
of a Jumar and began grinding into his raw, open blister.


Mason writhed in his chair as he was grinding this pickled /jalapeño 
/into the blister. I'll give him credit, he didn't scream. He did 
however make inhuman sounds that sounded as terrifying and horrible as 
his blisters looked. I was absolutely speechless, as was everyone in the 
room. Watching this was liking watching a train wreck, it was horrible 
but I couldn't take my eyes off of it. I'm sure everyone watching had 
the same look of horror that I had on my face. When he stopped from what 
seemed like an eternity or more of grinding this pickled jala/jalapeño 
/into a raw, open blister, Jim Smith said, "It was a joke, I didn't mean 
for you to do that." Mason replied, "(gasp, gasp) Well, it actually 
(gasp, gasp) feels better."


Mason put his foot down, pulled up the other foot and began grinding the 
pickled /jalapeño /into the other hellish looking, open, raw blister 
that was the size of a Jumar on his other foot. This was followed by 
more inhuman sounds and writhing around by Mason and certainly more 
horrified looks from those of us present. Thankfully, after an eternity 
and a half, he stopped abusing his raw open blister with pickled 
/jalapeños/. He declared that it helped that foot just as much as the 
other. Mason, continued doing this (although I fortunately never 
witnessed this scene again). His blisters quickly healed over and he was 
caving again within a week or so.


The moral of this story is either grind a pickled /jalapeño /into your 
raw, open blisters that are the size of Jumars on your feet to make them 
heal faster or don't listen to Jim Smith.


Allan Cobb

On 6/19/2016 1:55 PM, David via Texascavers wrote:

About 2 years ago, I posted somewhere that an Aggie Caver that I once
knew from the 1987 era, had passed away.

I could not find anybody that wanted to talk about it, as his death at
such a young age was very unexpected and tragic.




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[Texascavers] Devils Sinkhole -- Calling all Old Timers!

[Allan Cobb via Texascavers]

I am doing a talk at the TSA Spring Convention about Devils Sinkhole. I 
would like to hear from cavers who were there in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. 
Bonus points if I can get photos to use in my talk.


Please contact me off-list at a...@oztotl.com.

Allan
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[Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TCR

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

The Texas Cave Management Association will be having a Member's Meeting 
on October 21, 2012 at 9:30 am.  This is the Sunday of TCR and the 
meeting will be at Paradise Canyon on the Medina River.  The exact 
location for the meeting is to be determined.  It will be at the same 
location as the TSA Meeting.


I hope to see everyone there to learn about what TCMA has been up to.

Allan

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[Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TCR

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

The Texas Cave Management Association will be having a Member's Meeting 
on October 21, 2012 at 9:30 am.  This is the Sunday of TCR and the 
meeting will be at Paradise Canyon on the Medina River.  The exact 
location for the meeting is to be determined.  It will be at the same 
location as the TSA Meeting.


I hope to see everyone there to learn about what TCMA has been up to.

Allan

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[Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TCR

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

The Texas Cave Management Association will be having a Member's Meeting 
on October 21, 2012 at 9:30 am.  This is the Sunday of TCR and the 
meeting will be at Paradise Canyon on the Medina River.  The exact 
location for the meeting is to be determined.  It will be at the same 
location as the TSA Meeting.


I hope to see everyone there to learn about what TCMA has been up to.

Allan

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Re: [Texascavers] Change of TC Editor

[Allan Cobb]

You know Andy, people said the same thing when email first came out.  
The only difference is that they said "keep sending me letters."  Right, 
wrong, or indifferent, this is called progress.


To get back on topic, thanks Mark for all your hard work over the 
years.  Jill, I hope you do a good job and I'm sure you will.


Allan

On 6/20/2012 6:21 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:

Yeah
Continue to distribute info in the format that I know everyone has access to 
(email) and shake my head as all my caver friends drift off into FB land.  
Clique or not, lots of cavers are not on it and won't be.   Kinda nuts that I 
never even hear about Kiwis trips anymore.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 19, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Gill Edigar
? You know

what to do
--Ediger


On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Carl Kunath  wrote:

Like so many others, I didn’t get that message.
Did it actually go out on TexasCavers or was it only a FB reference?

Scott, perhaps you could forward to TexasCavers the message you refer to.

===Carl Kunath



From: speleoste...@aol.com
I didn't either.

l...@alumni.sfu.ca writes:
I did not get that memo via CaveTex either.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Scott Boyd  wrote:

Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
sleeping in a cave or something...

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Re: [Texascavers] Change of TC Editor

[Allan Cobb]

You know Andy, people said the same thing when email first came out.  
The only difference is that they said "keep sending me letters."  Right, 
wrong, or indifferent, this is called progress.


To get back on topic, thanks Mark for all your hard work over the 
years.  Jill, I hope you do a good job and I'm sure you will.


Allan

On 6/20/2012 6:21 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:

Yeah
Continue to distribute info in the format that I know everyone has access to 
(email) and shake my head as all my caver friends drift off into FB land.  
Clique or not, lots of cavers are not on it and won't be.   Kinda nuts that I 
never even hear about Kiwis trips anymore.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 19, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Gill Edigar
? You know

what to do
--Ediger


On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Carl Kunath  wrote:

Like so many others, I didn’t get that message.
Did it actually go out on TexasCavers or was it only a FB reference?

Scott, perhaps you could forward to TexasCavers the message you refer to.

===Carl Kunath



From: speleoste...@aol.com
I didn't either.

l...@alumni.sfu.ca writes:
I did not get that memo via CaveTex either.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Scott Boyd  wrote:

Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
sleeping in a cave or something...

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Re: [Texascavers] Change of TC Editor

[Allan Cobb]

You know Andy, people said the same thing when email first came out.  
The only difference is that they said "keep sending me letters."  Right, 
wrong, or indifferent, this is called progress.


To get back on topic, thanks Mark for all your hard work over the 
years.  Jill, I hope you do a good job and I'm sure you will.


Allan

On 6/20/2012 6:21 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp wrote:

Yeah
Continue to distribute info in the format that I know everyone has access to 
(email) and shake my head as all my caver friends drift off into FB land.  
Clique or not, lots of cavers are not on it and won't be.   Kinda nuts that I 
never even hear about Kiwis trips anymore.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 19, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Gill Edigar
? You know

what to do
--Ediger


On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Carl Kunath  wrote:

Like so many others, I didn’t get that message.
Did it actually go out on TexasCavers or was it only a FB reference?

Scott, perhaps you could forward to TexasCavers the message you refer to.

===Carl Kunath



From: speleoste...@aol.com
I didn't either.

l...@alumni.sfu.ca writes:
I did not get that memo via CaveTex either.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Scott Boyd  wrote:

Mark Alman posted a message a few days ago, right here on this very
mailing list about the changeover. I guess Jerry must have been
sleeping in a cave or something...

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[Texascavers] TCR!

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

In a week, TCR will be over.  That means lots of things will be 
happening over the next few days to make TCR happen.  I hope all of you 
can come out to Flat Creek Ranch (www.oztotl.com/tcr for directions).


I was hoping for rain and it looks like it is happening.  Next week and 
next weekend look like they will be dry.  This weekends rain means that 
there should be plenty of fresh water in the pond!  It should also help 
cut down on the fire danger a little.  We still won't be able to have 
ground fires because of the burn ban.


Everything is coming together and hope to see y'all there!

Allan

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[Texascavers] TCR!

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

In a week, TCR will be over.  That means lots of things will be 
happening over the next few days to make TCR happen.  I hope all of you 
can come out to Flat Creek Ranch (www.oztotl.com/tcr for directions).


I was hoping for rain and it looks like it is happening.  Next week and 
next weekend look like they will be dry.  This weekends rain means that 
there should be plenty of fresh water in the pond!  It should also help 
cut down on the fire danger a little.  We still won't be able to have 
ground fires because of the burn ban.


Everything is coming together and hope to see y'all there!

Allan

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[Texascavers] TCR!

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

In a week, TCR will be over.  That means lots of things will be 
happening over the next few days to make TCR happen.  I hope all of you 
can come out to Flat Creek Ranch (www.oztotl.com/tcr for directions).


I was hoping for rain and it looks like it is happening.  Next week and 
next weekend look like they will be dry.  This weekends rain means that 
there should be plenty of fresh water in the pond!  It should also help 
cut down on the fire danger a little.  We still won't be able to have 
ground fires because of the burn ban.


Everything is coming together and hope to see y'all there!

Allan

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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion Registration

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

It is a little over a week until TCR!  It looks like the weather will be 
good for the weekend.


Here is the breakdown for registration.  Adults $25, kids $15, and a cap 
of $80 for a family (adults and kids).  I do what I can to keep TCR 
affordable.  If you have a financial hardship, feel free to contact me 
off-list and we can work something out. Registration will accept cash 
and checks but not credit cards.  We encourage you to bring cash as it 
is easiest for us.


TCR has expenses and that is what the registration covers.  Last year, 
after TCR there was a long discussion on the list about registering.  
The bottom line is, if you come to TCR, you are expected to register.  
An important part of registration is the liability release to be on the 
property. TCR is not in the police business and we will not be going 
around and checking for wristbands. Part of the registration fee is 
cover those who don't register. The bottom line is that if you don't 
register, you are there and everyone else paying for you.


I hope everyone can come on out and enjoy the fun, festivities, and 
friendships.  TCR has lots of great door prizes and contest prizes.  We 
have some great contests lined up.  You can try your hand at the survey 
contest where you can win survey instruments!  Win at the rope climbing 
contest and you can get rope!  We'll have good prizes for the other 
contest too!


See y'all there!
Allan


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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion Registration

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

It is a little over a week until TCR!  It looks like the weather will be 
good for the weekend.


Here is the breakdown for registration.  Adults $25, kids $15, and a cap 
of $80 for a family (adults and kids).  I do what I can to keep TCR 
affordable.  If you have a financial hardship, feel free to contact me 
off-list and we can work something out. Registration will accept cash 
and checks but not credit cards.  We encourage you to bring cash as it 
is easiest for us.


TCR has expenses and that is what the registration covers.  Last year, 
after TCR there was a long discussion on the list about registering.  
The bottom line is, if you come to TCR, you are expected to register.  
An important part of registration is the liability release to be on the 
property. TCR is not in the police business and we will not be going 
around and checking for wristbands. Part of the registration fee is 
cover those who don't register. The bottom line is that if you don't 
register, you are there and everyone else paying for you.


I hope everyone can come on out and enjoy the fun, festivities, and 
friendships.  TCR has lots of great door prizes and contest prizes.  We 
have some great contests lined up.  You can try your hand at the survey 
contest where you can win survey instruments!  Win at the rope climbing 
contest and you can get rope!  We'll have good prizes for the other 
contest too!


See y'all there!
Allan


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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion Registration

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

It is a little over a week until TCR!  It looks like the weather will be 
good for the weekend.


Here is the breakdown for registration.  Adults $25, kids $15, and a cap 
of $80 for a family (adults and kids).  I do what I can to keep TCR 
affordable.  If you have a financial hardship, feel free to contact me 
off-list and we can work something out. Registration will accept cash 
and checks but not credit cards.  We encourage you to bring cash as it 
is easiest for us.


TCR has expenses and that is what the registration covers.  Last year, 
after TCR there was a long discussion on the list about registering.  
The bottom line is, if you come to TCR, you are expected to register.  
An important part of registration is the liability release to be on the 
property. TCR is not in the police business and we will not be going 
around and checking for wristbands. Part of the registration fee is 
cover those who don't register. The bottom line is that if you don't 
register, you are there and everyone else paying for you.


I hope everyone can come on out and enjoy the fun, festivities, and 
friendships.  TCR has lots of great door prizes and contest prizes.  We 
have some great contests lined up.  You can try your hand at the survey 
contest where you can win survey instruments!  Win at the rope climbing 
contest and you can get rope!  We'll have good prizes for the other 
contest too!


See y'all there!
Allan


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Re: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??

[Allan Cobb]

In 2001, I was on a project to "open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the 
secrets that were hidden behind it" that was chronicled by Danish TV and 
newspaper through the DK Explorer.  Unfortunately, we were not able to get 
permission from the village to enter the cave.  It added lots of drama as we 
negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and 
story in itself.

You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if 
you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001.  I hope your Danish is good but you 
can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest 
of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great 
Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of 
temples and caves.  Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does 
have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a 
while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having 
knowledge of Danish would help.

Allan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mixon Bill 
  To: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM
  Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??


  The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya 
wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I 
have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment 
of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which 
is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which 
archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about 
the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for 
Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have 
seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV.
  --Mixon



  Begin forwarded message:


  From: Вячеслав Бабышев 
  Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT
  To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org
  Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES
  Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев 


  Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I 
watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems 
in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they 
found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), 
supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is 
supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as 
Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV 
show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know 
something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? 
Thank you in advance.














































































  
  I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, "Yes, the things 
your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how 
everything works." That's when I wake up.
  
  You may "reply" to the address this message
  came from, but for long-term use, save:
  Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
  AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

Re: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??

[Allan Cobb]

In 2001, I was on a project to "open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the 
secrets that were hidden behind it" that was chronicled by Danish TV and 
newspaper through the DK Explorer.  Unfortunately, we were not able to get 
permission from the village to enter the cave.  It added lots of drama as we 
negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and 
story in itself.

You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if 
you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001.  I hope your Danish is good but you 
can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest 
of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great 
Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of 
temples and caves.  Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does 
have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a 
while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having 
knowledge of Danish would help.

Allan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mixon Bill 
  To: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM
  Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??


  The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya 
wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I 
have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment 
of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which 
is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which 
archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about 
the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for 
Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have 
seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV.
  --Mixon



  Begin forwarded message:


  From: Вячеслав Бабышев 
  Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT
  To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org
  Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES
  Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев 


  Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I 
watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems 
in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they 
found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), 
supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is 
supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as 
Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV 
show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know 
something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? 
Thank you in advance.














































































  
  I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, "Yes, the things 
your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how 
everything works." That's when I wake up.
  
  You may "reply" to the address this message
  came from, but for long-term use, save:
  Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
  AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

Re: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??

[Allan Cobb]

In 2001, I was on a project to "open a wall in a Maya cave to discover the 
secrets that were hidden behind it" that was chronicled by Danish TV and 
newspaper through the DK Explorer.  Unfortunately, we were not able to get 
permission from the village to enter the cave.  It added lots of drama as we 
negotiated with the village to get in. That whole fiasco was an adventure and 
story in itself.

You can find a little more information at http://templehunter.dk/photo.htm if 
you scroll down to Ekspeditionen i 2001.  I hope your Danish is good but you 
can see some photos there and might even recognize some Texas cavers. The rest 
of the website (http://templehunter.dk/) chronicles the adventures of the great 
Danish explorer Christian Christianson who travels to Guatemala in search of 
temples and caves.  Christian is mostly a legend in his own mind but he does 
have a website and managed to come up with some money for us to work with for a 
while. There may be some information archived in DK Explorer website but having 
knowledge of Danish would help.

Allan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mixon Bill 
  To: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:13 PM
  Subject: [Texascavers] TV show featuring a cave with Maya wall ??


  The AMCS has received the following query about a cave with an ancient Maya 
wall that was featured in a (Russian, I assume) TV show. I have replied that I 
have no idea which cave that might have been, and I included a PDF attachment 
of the article on Balancanche from AMCS Activites Newsletter 27 (2004), which 
is probably the most famous example of a cave with a wall behind which 
archaeologists found a lot of neat stuff. If anybody can help Vacheslav about 
the TV program, please do. I don't know whether the movie was made just for 
Russian TV or was something imported that you might have seen over here. I have 
seen no such video, but then I don't even have a TV.
  --Mixon



  Begin forwarded message:


  From: Вячеслав Бабышев 
  Date: April 26, 2011 8:51:15 AM CDT
  To: edi...@amcs-pubs.org
  Subject: ASSOCIATION FOR MEXICAN CAVE STUDIES
  Reply-To: Вячеслав Бабышев 


  Hello! I have a question about the Mayan archeology. In the mid 90's. I 
watched an interesting TV show. In it a group of people studied karst systems 
in the Yucatan. In the most profound and far from the surface of the cave they 
found a small, stuffy stones input (such as having the right kind of masonry), 
supposedly leading to the lower world (or sanctuary) Maya. This entry is 
supposed walled Mayan priests to keep out [of] a sacred space aliens (such as 
Spanish) when they invaded their land. Log razmurovyvat did not. On this TV 
show has ended. Information about this entry, I never found it. If you know 
something, please tell us: what was this cave and to actually lead this entry? 
Thank you in advance.














































































  
  I'm walking down the street with Leonardo da Vinci. He says, "Yes, the things 
your science has created are indeed wonderful. You must explain to me how 
everything works." That's when I wake up.
  
  You may "reply" to the address this message
  came from, but for long-term use, save:
  Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
  AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

[Texascavers] TCMA at Spring Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

I'm sorry I missed the Spring Convention, it sounds like a good time was had by 
all.  Thanks to Ellie for setting it up!

TCMA was busy at Spring Convention.  The TCMA Auction was a big hit on Saturday 
night.  Thanks to Jim Kennedy with help from Saj, Mallory,  Andrea, Ellie, Don, 
and Joe.  I heard it was entertaining.  Anyone needing a reciept from the 
Auction, please send me a note.

The TCMA Breakfast was well recieved.  I am always glad that TCMA gets a chance 
to feed members and nonmembers alike for a small donation.  Thanks to all who 
showed up for breakfast.  I would also like to thank those who got up early to 
make breakfast!  Saj organized the breakfast and Matt ran it.  Matt Zappitello  
was supported Linda, Joe, Missy, Christie, Arron, and Aubrey.

TCMA had one of its two Members Meetings on Sunday morning.  I would like to 
thank Ron for taking over in my absence and running the meeting.  The big news 
from the meeting was the passing of our revised bylaws.  I want to thank all 
those who attended the meeting.

OK, I'm not infallible, I wasn't even there, so, if I somehow forgot to thank 
someone who helped TCMA at the Spring Convention, I am truly sorry.   Thanks to 
all the unsung heros who helped TCMA and thanks to all those unsung heros who 
worked to make the Spring Convention a fine event.

Allan Cobb
TCMA President

[Texascavers] TCMA at Spring Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

I'm sorry I missed the Spring Convention, it sounds like a good time was had by 
all.  Thanks to Ellie for setting it up!

TCMA was busy at Spring Convention.  The TCMA Auction was a big hit on Saturday 
night.  Thanks to Jim Kennedy with help from Saj, Mallory,  Andrea, Ellie, Don, 
and Joe.  I heard it was entertaining.  Anyone needing a reciept from the 
Auction, please send me a note.

The TCMA Breakfast was well recieved.  I am always glad that TCMA gets a chance 
to feed members and nonmembers alike for a small donation.  Thanks to all who 
showed up for breakfast.  I would also like to thank those who got up early to 
make breakfast!  Saj organized the breakfast and Matt ran it.  Matt Zappitello  
was supported Linda, Joe, Missy, Christie, Arron, and Aubrey.

TCMA had one of its two Members Meetings on Sunday morning.  I would like to 
thank Ron for taking over in my absence and running the meeting.  The big news 
from the meeting was the passing of our revised bylaws.  I want to thank all 
those who attended the meeting.

OK, I'm not infallible, I wasn't even there, so, if I somehow forgot to thank 
someone who helped TCMA at the Spring Convention, I am truly sorry.   Thanks to 
all the unsung heros who helped TCMA and thanks to all those unsung heros who 
worked to make the Spring Convention a fine event.

Allan Cobb
TCMA President

[Texascavers] TCMA at Spring Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

I'm sorry I missed the Spring Convention, it sounds like a good time was had by 
all.  Thanks to Ellie for setting it up!

TCMA was busy at Spring Convention.  The TCMA Auction was a big hit on Saturday 
night.  Thanks to Jim Kennedy with help from Saj, Mallory,  Andrea, Ellie, Don, 
and Joe.  I heard it was entertaining.  Anyone needing a reciept from the 
Auction, please send me a note.

The TCMA Breakfast was well recieved.  I am always glad that TCMA gets a chance 
to feed members and nonmembers alike for a small donation.  Thanks to all who 
showed up for breakfast.  I would also like to thank those who got up early to 
make breakfast!  Saj organized the breakfast and Matt ran it.  Matt Zappitello  
was supported Linda, Joe, Missy, Christie, Arron, and Aubrey.

TCMA had one of its two Members Meetings on Sunday morning.  I would like to 
thank Ron for taking over in my absence and running the meeting.  The big news 
from the meeting was the passing of our revised bylaws.  I want to thank all 
those who attended the meeting.

OK, I'm not infallible, I wasn't even there, so, if I somehow forgot to thank 
someone who helped TCMA at the Spring Convention, I am truly sorry.   Thanks to 
all the unsung heros who helped TCMA and thanks to all those unsung heros who 
worked to make the Spring Convention a fine event.

Allan Cobb
TCMA President

[Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting Wed April 6

[Allan Cobb]

The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. 

University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall

NOTE:  THE ROOM NUMBER CHANGE to 2.48 PAI 

http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html

Allan Cobb will be presenting on the Texas Cave Management Association. This 
talk will tell you about TCMA, what we do, who we are, and why we want and need 
your support.

For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see 
www.utgrotto.orgAll of our information including officer contact info, 
trips reports, new caver training, event calendar, and posting links to 
beginner trips or vertical rope training are available.  

[Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting Wed April 6

[Allan Cobb]

The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. 

University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall

NOTE:  THE ROOM NUMBER CHANGE to 2.48 PAI 

http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html

Allan Cobb will be presenting on the Texas Cave Management Association. This 
talk will tell you about TCMA, what we do, who we are, and why we want and need 
your support.

For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see 
www.utgrotto.orgAll of our information including officer contact info, 
trips reports, new caver training, event calendar, and posting links to 
beginner trips or vertical rope training are available.  

[Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting Wed April 6

[Allan Cobb]

The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. 

University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall

NOTE:  THE ROOM NUMBER CHANGE to 2.48 PAI 

http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html

Allan Cobb will be presenting on the Texas Cave Management Association. This 
talk will tell you about TCMA, what we do, who we are, and why we want and need 
your support.

For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see 
www.utgrotto.orgAll of our information including officer contact info, 
trips reports, new caver training, event calendar, and posting links to 
beginner trips or vertical rope training are available.  

Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TSA Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

Starting at 8 AM, the TCMA Fundraising Breakfast will start serving at the 
Service Center.  Come get breakfast tacos and coffee to get your day 
started.  Your donation helps TCMA buy caves!


The TCMA Members Meeting will be on Sunday morning at 9 AM in the Service 
Center. All members (and even nonmembers) are
welcome to attend.  This is your chance to find out what TCMA is up to and 
offer your input on the organization. One of the biggest things going on at 
the meeting is discussion and voting on the revised bylaws for the TCMA.


Please visit, http://tcmacaves.org/bylaws/ where you can see the current 
bylaws, the proposed bylaws presented at the last TCR which were voted down,
and the bylaws revisions that will be discussed voted on next weekend. There 
is also a document that summarizes the changes between our current bylaws

and the new proposed bylaws.

Thanks!
Allan



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Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TSA Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

Starting at 8 AM, the TCMA Fundraising Breakfast will start serving at the 
Service Center.  Come get breakfast tacos and coffee to get your day 
started.  Your donation helps TCMA buy caves!


The TCMA Members Meeting will be on Sunday morning at 9 AM in the Service 
Center. All members (and even nonmembers) are
welcome to attend.  This is your chance to find out what TCMA is up to and 
offer your input on the organization. One of the biggest things going on at 
the meeting is discussion and voting on the revised bylaws for the TCMA.


Please visit, http://tcmacaves.org/bylaws/ where you can see the current 
bylaws, the proposed bylaws presented at the last TCR which were voted down,
and the bylaws revisions that will be discussed voted on next weekend. There 
is also a document that summarizes the changes between our current bylaws

and the new proposed bylaws.

Thanks!
Allan



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Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TSA Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

Starting at 8 AM, the TCMA Fundraising Breakfast will start serving at the 
Service Center.  Come get breakfast tacos and coffee to get your day 
started.  Your donation helps TCMA buy caves!


The TCMA Members Meeting will be on Sunday morning at 9 AM in the Service 
Center. All members (and even nonmembers) are
welcome to attend.  This is your chance to find out what TCMA is up to and 
offer your input on the organization. One of the biggest things going on at 
the meeting is discussion and voting on the revised bylaws for the TCMA.


Please visit, http://tcmacaves.org/bylaws/ where you can see the current 
bylaws, the proposed bylaws presented at the last TCR which were voted down,
and the bylaws revisions that will be discussed voted on next weekend. There 
is also a document that summarizes the changes between our current bylaws

and the new proposed bylaws.

Thanks!
Allan



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[Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TSA Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

This is a reminder that there will be a TCMA Members Meeting on Sunday 
morning at the TSA Spring Convention. All members (and even nonmembers) are 
welcome to attend.  This is your chance to find out what TCMA is up to and 
offer your input on the organization.


One of the biggest things going on at the meeting is discussion and voting 
on the revised bylaws for the TCMA.


Please visit, http://tcmacaves.org/bylaws/ where you can see the current 
bylaws, the proposed bylaws presented at the last TCR which were voted down, 
and the bylaws revisions that will be discussed voted on next weekend. There 
is also a document that summarizes the changes between our current bylaws 
and the new proposed bylaws.


Thanks!
Allan 



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[Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TSA Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

This is a reminder that there will be a TCMA Members Meeting on Sunday 
morning at the TSA Spring Convention. All members (and even nonmembers) are 
welcome to attend.  This is your chance to find out what TCMA is up to and 
offer your input on the organization.


One of the biggest things going on at the meeting is discussion and voting 
on the revised bylaws for the TCMA.


Please visit, http://tcmacaves.org/bylaws/ where you can see the current 
bylaws, the proposed bylaws presented at the last TCR which were voted down, 
and the bylaws revisions that will be discussed voted on next weekend. There 
is also a document that summarizes the changes between our current bylaws 
and the new proposed bylaws.


Thanks!
Allan 



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[Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TSA Convention

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

This is a reminder that there will be a TCMA Members Meeting on Sunday 
morning at the TSA Spring Convention. All members (and even nonmembers) are 
welcome to attend.  This is your chance to find out what TCMA is up to and 
offer your input on the organization.


One of the biggest things going on at the meeting is discussion and voting 
on the revised bylaws for the TCMA.


Please visit, http://tcmacaves.org/bylaws/ where you can see the current 
bylaws, the proposed bylaws presented at the last TCR which were voted down, 
and the bylaws revisions that will be discussed voted on next weekend. There 
is also a document that summarizes the changes between our current bylaws 
and the new proposed bylaws.


Thanks!
Allan 



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[Texascavers] TCMA Members Meeting at TSA Spring Convention

[Allan Cobb]

The TSA Spring Convention is the weekend of April 1-3 at Fort Clark Springs 
in Brackettville.  Here is the website for more details 
http://cavetexas.org/events/TSASC/tsasc2011.html.


I hope everyone can come out and have fun.  The TSA has a great line up of 
speaker and there will be opportunities for caving trips, too!


On Saturday night, the TCMA will once again hold our annual fundraising 
auction.  This is always great fun and we have some great items up for 
auction.


On Sunday morning, at 9 AM, TCMA will hold a Members Meeting.  This is your 
chance to come and find out what your organization is doing. One item of 
business will be revised bylaws for membership approvals.  The text of the 
proposed bylaws changes will be posted very soon on our website and I will 
announce that when it happens.


Thanks!
Allan Cobb
TCMA President 



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[Texascavers] TCMA News and Changes

[Allan Cobb]

Hi all,

I just wanted to announce that TCMA has had several changes in our Preserve 
and Property Managers.


I would like to thank our managers who are leaving.  Aimee Beveridge has 
been the Preserve Manager at Godwin Ranch for many years and has decided to 
step down.  Godwin Ranch is a preserve that is used mainly for research and 
biomonitoring due to it endangered species. Peter Sprouse has been the 
Property Manager for our management agreement with UT Lands. The main caves 
we manage on UT Lands are 09 Well and Amazing Maze.  Both Peter and Aimee 
have been managers for TCMA since 2004.  TCMA thanks them for all their 
years of hard work.


Matt Turner has is stepping down as Preserve Manager of Lost Oasis Cave.  He 
has not been in that position for long but he decided to take over 
management of a different preserve.  Matt will continue as manager of 
Whirlpool Cave.


I would also like to introduce and welcome their replacements.  Matt Turner 
will be taking over as Preserve Manager at Godwin Ranch.  David Ochel will 
be taking over as Property Manager for the UT Lands caves.  Ron Ralph is the 
new Preserve Manager for Lost Oasis Cave.  Welcome managers and thanks for 
taking over.


Each of our new Preserve Managers have big shoes to fill from their 
predecessors. If you are interested in helping on any of the preserves, feel 
free to contact the Preserve Managers.  I'm sure they would welcome any help 
offered. Also, don't forget to thank the outgoing Preserve Managers for 
their service.


Thanks,
Allan Cobb
TCMA President 



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Re: [Texascavers] Will new film "Sanctum" be the "Vertical Limit" of Caving?

[Allan Cobb]

Linda and I will go see the movie when it comes out.  I am going to see a MOVIE 
not a DOCUMENTARY.  I go to movies for entertainment and am happy to 
temporarily suspend reality for a little entertainment.

Allan

[Texascavers] TCMA Ezells Cave Cleanup Project

[Allan Cobb]

Cavers, we need your help!  The Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) 
will be having a work day to spruce up one of our properties, the Ezells 
Cave Preserve in Hays County.  We plan to prune limbs, cut weeds, haul off 
junk, and just generally make the property more attractive.  We need people, 
saws, loppers, weed eaters, gloves, and maybe even someone with a trailer 
willing to carry all the debris to the landfill.  Bring your own drinks and 
snacks for the work, but TCMA will treat all volunteers to pizza and drinks 
after we are done.
The date is Saturday, 19 February.  The time, 10:00 am.  Meet at 1400 block 
of Brown Street, on the southwest side of Bishop Street, San Marcos.



If anyone wishes to enter the cave after the work is completed, Preserve 
Manager Jon Cradit has agreed to that.  All visitors to the Preserve will be 
asked to sign a liability waiver.



Jon can be reached at 512-557-7965 in case any one gets lost, or would like 
coordinate more details with him.


Thanks for your support!



Jim Kennedy

TCMA Preserves Chair




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[Texascavers] TCMA in 2011

[Allan Cobb]

Hello cavers!

As the new President of TCMA, I would like to make a few announcements.

I would like to welcome the new Board Members, John Brooks and Saj 
Zappitello, to the TCMA Board.


I would like to thank out-going Board Members Jon  Cradit, Joe Mitchell, and 
William RussellI for their years of dedicated

service.

I would like to thank the William Russell, Arron Wertheim, Joe Mitchell, and 
Michelle Bryant for their servive as officers in 2010.


I would also like to introduce the 2011 officers.

Allan Cobb -- President
Ron Ralph --Vice President
Co-Treasurers Michelle Bryant and Joe Ranzua
Secretary -- Ann Scott

I would also like to invite cavers to visit our caves. TCMA is dedicated to 
protecting caves as well as making caves accessible to cavers.  The caving 
community and TCMA members has been generous is helping us with our 
acquitions.  Please visit one or more of our preseves for your caving 
enjoyment.


As always, TCMA is looking to acquire caves.  If you hear of property with 
caves for sale, please contact Jerry Atkinson (jerryat...@aol.com), the 
chairman of the Aquisitions Committee.


Thanks for your support!

Allan Cobb
TCMA President 



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Re: [Texascavers] Langtry caves

[Allan Cobb]

A copy of the Texas Sportsman's Law can be found at 
http://www.cavetexas.org/PDF/Texas_Sportsmans_Law.pdf.

The relevant section about charging can be found in Sec. 75.003 (c) (2).  While 
I am not a lawyer, it sounds like he can charge for access to his caves and is 
still covered by the Texas Sportsman's Law.  However, this is a bad precedence 
to set.

Many of us worked long and hard back in the 1980's to get caving specifically 
covered by the Texas Sportsman's Law.  It would be good if all Texas cavers 
familiarized themselves with the law.

Allan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Geary Schindel 
  To: Andy Gluesenkamp ; Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 1:43 PM
  Subject: [Texascavers] Langtry caves


  I'm not sure how relevant the Sportman's Law is these days - at least for 
hunting and tubing.  I have not read the Sportsman Law in Texas in 10 years so 
I don't know if it really excludes activities if you pay for them.  I would 
assume that there is not a lot of free hunting left in Texas and that many 
ranchers derive some if not most of their income from hunters paying to hunt.  
Having said that, there must be some good liability waivers out there as there 
have got to be a number of hunting related injuries and deaths each year in 
Texas.  I think this would range from shooting accidents to four wheeler 
incidents to natural hazards, etc.  I believe there are a couple of tubing 
deaths each year in Texas yet that doesn't seem to stop folks from renting 
tubes.

   

  Now, regarding caving, it probably still applies as long as you're allowed to 
cave for free.  

   

  Whether it sets a bad precedent or is an example of the future of caving, I 
don't know.  I'm not sure I'm willing to pay $100 to visit these caves. 

   

  G

Re: [Texascavers] New Date for Deadly Descent

[Allan Cobb]

I know cavers who aren't mentally or physically capable of enduring the 
treacherous underworld of deep cave exploration, too.

Allan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jon Cradit 
  To: 'Lee H. Skinner' ; Cave Diggers ; Internal Communications of the Sandia 
Grotto ; nmcaver list ; texascavers list 
  Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:07 AM
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] New Date for Deadly Descent


  I love this part of their press blurb:

  "Scientists aren't mentally or physically capable of enduring the treacherous 
underworld of deep cave exploration"

   

  Yeah, right!!

   

   

  Jon Cradit, R.S., P.G.

  Environmental Coordinator

  Edwards Aquifer Authority

  210-477-8523

  800-292-1047

  edwardsaquifer.org

   

  From: Lee H. Skinner [mailto:skin...@thuntek.net] 
  Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:03 AM
  To: Cave Diggers; Internal Communications of the Sandia Grotto; nmcaver list; 
texascavers list
  Subject: [Texascavers] New Date for Deadly Descent

   

  It now appears that the TV series Deadly Descent will now air on The Science 
Channel (a division of Discovery Communications, Inc) beginning Friday December 
3 (Thanks to Thomas for the info).  As you can see below, it will not be 
exclusively devoted to caving.

  Lee Skinner
  --

  DEADLY DESCENT (December 3)
  Caves and the bottom of the ocean are the few frontiers yet to be explored by 
mankind. Deep caves that twist and weave for miles below the earth's surface 
hold the secrets to solving mankind's biggest mysteries and challenges and 
revolutionary new cures in medicine. Scientists aren't mentally or physically 
capable of enduring the treacherous underworld of deep cave exploration, which 
is when this elite team of "cavers" are called upon to undertake these deadly 
descents into mysterious places no other men have ever gone before.

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

[Allan Cobb]

The registration count was indeed 381 people.

Allan

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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks 
to all those who came out.


Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.

I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of 
TCR.


I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned 
registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a 
rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked 
behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to 
everyone helped.


This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come 
to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.


See y'all next year,
Allan 



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Re: [Texascavers] photos at TCR -- recap

[Allan Cobb]

TCR supports this awareness program.  Please think before you press that 
button.  There will be no "photo police" at TCR.

Allan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Saj Zappitello 
  To: Texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:55 PM
  Subject: [Texascavers] photos at TCR -- recap


  Howdy folks,

  So it seems like the word "policy" has been taken out of context. No one 
wants a hard and fast rule at TCR, and we shouldn't need to worry about 
"policing." Think of this as an officially approved request. Please be 
considerate with your photography. That's all. And ask your friends to be 
considerate too.

  Asking permission to take photos is often a common courtesy; however, the 
biggest issue is with posting photos in a public forum. Once you post a photo 
online, it never goes away forever. The same is not true of traditional printed 
medium, until it is scanned in and digitized.

  Cavers are a community, and when we hang out together, as at TCR, we might 
want to be able to leave some of the cares of "normal" life behind. This is why 
this request is being put forward.

  ">Many people behave in ways at TCR that they would not dare even dream of in 
their "normal" lives."
  ">considerate, flexible, common sense guidelines are preferable to rigid 
policies"
  ">Cavers do form a community, and we need to protect the interests of those 
who would feel (and be) vulnerable without this protection."
  ">the concept that TCR is provided as a safe place to turn
  > kids, dogs, and yourself loose for the weekend and enjoy some freedoms
  > that must be kept penned up during one's daily visits to the real
  > world. "
  ">This ease of distribution, combined with declining respect for privacy 
throughout much of society, appears to be the real root of an emerging 
potential problem."

  Below are the sorts of attitudes that I am trying to discourage. I want 
everyone to get wild and let loose with me. I think that they are more likely 
to if these fears are put to rest by a simple considerate approach.

  ">If you do something in public that you don't want publicized - then don't 
do it."
  ">don't do it during the daylight hours at TCR. That way no one can take an 
embarrassing photo of you."
  ">unintended and naive use of those photos can and will happen."

  I want everyone to be comfortable and do do it. Let's get informed, and 
inform our friends, and protect our carefree community.

  Thanks,
  ~Saj

[Texascavers] TCR Weather Report

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

I wanted to post the weather report for this weekend.  The highs Friday, 
Saturday, and Sunday will be in the mid 80s.  The low Friday night will be 
47 and Saturday night will be 54.  Bring shorts for daytime and a jacket for 
night.  Don't forget something warm to cover with at night.


Information about TCR is available at www.oztotl.com/tcr, t...@oztotl.com, or 
by phone at 210-338-0TCR.


See y'all there,

Allan



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[NMCAVER] IMPORTANT CHANGE Texas Cavers Reunion After Hours Arrival

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Sorry about this but there has been a change to the after hours arrival 
procedure.  I cannot get the gate code until Thursday.  I will post it here 
and it will be on the website (www.oztotl.com/tcr) as soon as I get it.  You 
can also email t...@oztotl.com or call 210-338-0TCR on Thursday or Friday. 
You will only need this information if you plan to arrive in the wee hours 
of the morning.


Thanks and see y'all there,
Allan 



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[Texascavers] IMPORTANT CHANGE Texas Cavers Reunion -- After Hours Arrival

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Sorry about this but there has been a change to the after hours arrival 
procedure.  I cannot get the gate code until Thursday.  I will post it here 
and it will be on the website (www.oztotl.com/tcr) as soon as I get it.  You 
can also email t...@oztotl.com or call 210-338-0TCR on Thursday or Friday. 
You will only need this information if you plan to arrive in the wee hours 
of the morning.


Thanks and see y'all there,
Allan 



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[Texascavers] TCR 2010 --Correction for Directions to TCR

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

It was pointed out to me that there is a small mistake in the directions. 
That is what I get for copying and pasting straight from the Hidden Falls 
website!


The site is located east of Marble Falls on FM 1431.  If you are coming up 
281 from San Antonio, you will turn EAST or RIGHT onto 1431.  IF you follow 
the map, you will do fine!


See y'all there...
Allan 



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[NMCAVER] Texas Cavers Reunion 2010!

[Allan Cobb]

This is a special invitation for our New Mexico caver friends.  Come on down 
to Texas and have a great time!




Howdy y'all

TCR will be at Hidden Falls Adventure Park 
(http://www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com ) 5 miles east of Marble Falls on

FM1431 THIS WEEKEND!

Come on out and enjoy all the usual fun and activities.

The hot tub and sauna will be up and running Friday and Saturday nights.

Friday night, the Bexar Grotto is be having a Fish Fry available for a small 
donation.


Stefan and the cooks are planning some great food got Saturday night!

Saturday night, we have a bunch of great door prizes and we will have live 
music from the Terminal Syphons.


If you aren't there, you will miss ALL the fun!

Information about TCR is available at www.oztotl.com/tcr, t...@oztotl.com, or 
by phone at 210-338-0TCR.


See y'all there,

Allan 



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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion 2010!

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all

TCR will be at Hidden Falls Adventure Park 
(http://www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com ) 5 miles east of Marble Falls on

FM1431 THIS WEEKEND!

Come on out and enjoy all the usual fun and activities.

The hot tub and sauna will be up and running Friday and Saturday nights.

Friday night, the Bexar Grotto is be having a Fish Fry available for a small 
donation.


Stefan and the cooks are planning some great food got Saturday night!

Saturday night, we have a bunch of great door prizes and we will have live 
music from the Terminal Syphons.


If you aren't there, you will miss ALL the fun!

Information about TCR is available at www.oztotl.com/tcr, t...@oztotl.com, or 
by phone at 210-338-0TCR.


See y'all there,

Allan 



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[NMCAVER] Texas Cavers Reunion After Hours Arrival

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Well, we keep registration open pretty late at night but some of you may 
arrive later than that!  If you get there in the wee hours of the morning, 
you will need the gate access code to enter the property.  The gate code is 
5050.  You enter the code on the keypad at the gate.  Please make sure no 
one follows you through the gate.  You will need to stop at the registration 
building and sign a release form and drop it in the box.  Then proceed on to 
the campground.


Information about TCR is available at www.oztotl.com/tcr, t...@oztotl.com, or 
by phone at 210-338-0TCR.



See y'all there!
Allan 



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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion -- After Hours Arrival

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Well, we keep registration open pretty late at night but some of you may 
arrive later than that!  If you get there in the wee hours of the morning, 
you will need the gate access code to enter the property.  The gate code is 
5050.  You enter the code on the keypad at the gate.  Please make sure no 
one follows you through the gate.  You will need to stop at the registration 
building and sign a release form and drop it in the box.  Then proceed on to 
the campground.


Information about TCR is available at www.oztotl.com/tcr, t...@oztotl.com, or 
by phone at 210-338-0TCR.



See y'all there!
Allan 



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[NMCAVER] Texas Cavers Reunion 2010

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

You haven't heard much from me but I've been busy working on the details for 
TCR.


TCR will be at Hidden Falls Adventure Park 
(http://www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com ) 5 miles east of Marble Falls on 
FM1431.  The dates are October 15-17.  Come on out and enjoy all the usual 
fun and activities. Stefan and the cooks are planning some great food, too! 
Friday night, the Bexar Grotto is be having a Fish Fry available for a small 
donation.


Hidden Falls Adventure Park requires that everyone sign a general liability 
waiver. You will be asked to sign this form at registration and you must 
register immediately upon arrival. Everyone MUST  register and sign a 
general liability waiver. If you are only attending for the day, you must 
register.


If you plan on arriving after midnight, you will need a gate access code. 
The code will be issued the week before TCR and will only work for that 
weekend. There will be a special procedure for late arrivals so check the 
website the week before TCR.


You can see all the waivers on their website at 
http://www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com/forms.html . If you are bringing a 
minor who is not your child, you will need to have the parents or 
guardian(s) sign a Temporary Guardianship Form available for printing at 
http://www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com/files/Temporary_Guradianship.pdf .


Information on the fees will be available soon but the fees will be about 
the same as last year!


Information about TCR is available at www.oztotl.com/tcr , t...@oztotl.com , 
or by phone at 210-338-0TCR.


See y'all there,
Allan 



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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion 2010

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

You haven't heard much from me but I've been busy working on the details for 
TCR.


TCR will be at Hidden Falls Adventure Park 
(http://www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com ) 5 miles east of Marble Falls on 
FM1431.  The dates are October 15-17.  Come on out and enjoy all the usual 
fun and activities. Stefan and the cooks are planning some great food, too! 
Friday night, the Bexar Grotto is be having a Fish Fry available for a small 
donation.


Hidden Falls Adventure Park requires that everyone sign a general liability 
waiver. You will be asked to sign this form at registration and you must 
register immediately upon arrival. Everyone MUST  register and sign a 
general liability waiver. If you are only attending for the day, you must 
register.


If you plan on arriving after midnight, you will need a gate access code. 
The code will be issued the week before TCR and will only work for that 
weekend. There will be a special procedure for late arrivals so check the 
website the week before TCR.


You can see all the waivers on their website at 
http://www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com/forms.html. If you are bringing a 
minor who is not your child, you will need to have the parents or 
guardian(s) sign a Temporary Guardianship Form available for printing at 
http://www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com/files/Temporary_Guradianship.pdf.


Information on the fees will be available soon but the fees will be about 
the same as last year!


Information about TCR is available at www.oztotl.com/tcr, t...@oztotl.com, or 
by phone at 210-338-0TCR.


See y'all there,
Allan 



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Re: [Texascavers] Location for TCR

[Allan Cobb]

Well a week has passed since I offered to let someone come up with a better 
location.  As expected, no one did.


Did anyone even try?  I doubt it.

Over the past week, I thought about why I even bother organizing TCR if a 
very vocal minority will do nothing but complain.  Is it really worth it?  I 
think it is, that is why I do it.


I've noticed that those who complain the most are the ones who actually do 
little or nothing to make TCR happen.  Yet their vocal complaining is an 
irritation that I frankly don't need.  It is also an irritation to others. 
Coming to TCR is your personal choice.  If you choose not to come, fine, you 
miss the fun.


TCR is put together by a very dedicated group of volunteers who spend more 
hours than they care to count getting everything ready, running, and 
breaking down TCR.  Trust me, we don't do all this work to make ourselves 
heroes, we do it so that other can come out and have fun.  Other than a few 
key volunteers, no one ever really sees all the people who work to make TCR 
happen. I want to thank all these people who put their time and effort into 
TCR. Thank you volunteers, thank you very much


If people still want to complain about the location, go ahead, it really 
isn't too late to cancel TCR.


Allan
- Original Message ----- 
From: Allan Cobb

To: 'TexasCavers'
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:58 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Location for TCR


Since so many people have complained about my choice for the location of 
TCR, I am will to make a deal.  Anyone who wants to can find a better site. 
For one week only, I am willing to change the location if a better site can 
be found.  Here is your chance to make a difference.  Channel all your 
energy that has been used for complaining into finding a site.  Send me 
informaion on location, description, cost, and availability.  Now get out 
there and get to looking!


Allan 



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[Texascavers] Location for TCR

[Allan Cobb]

Since so many people have complained about my choice for the location of TCR, I 
am will to make a deal.  Anyone who wants to can find a better site.  For one 
week only, I am willing to change the location if a better site can be found.  
Here is your chance to make a difference.  Channel all your energy that has 
been used for complaining into finding a site.  Send me informaion on location, 
description, cost, and availability.  Now get out there and get to looking!

Allan

Re: [Texascavers] 2010 Texas Cavers Reunion!

[Allan Cobb]

  - Original Message - 
   I'm excited to spend my birthday @ my first ever TCR! 
Well, my birthday is the week before TCR.  Perhaps we should proclaim TCR to 
also be a birthday party for all Libras!  That should balance things right up.

Re: [Texascavers] 2010 Texas Cavers Reunion!

[Allan Cobb]

We do not have the park to ourselves.  However, the use is rather light at 
the park and with 3100 acres, it is not likely to be a real problem.  Most 
people who go out there are day use only.  I have thought about all these 
questions that have come up and mulled it over before even visiting the 
site.  After visiting the site, I am certain that it will all work out well.


Paradise Canyon was a great place but it too had its problems.  I had many 
complaints from people about that site, too.  After the accident last year, 
I had a number of people ask me to move TCR somewhere else.  So I did.


Finding a location is no easy task.  This site fits almost all of the 
criteria that I look for when choosing a site.  The reality of it is that 
you cannot please everyone.  Yes, it would be much better if it had a river 
running through it but if it did, I probably could not have gotten it as a 
TCR site.  One of the most important criteria for me is that it works out 
with a few hassles as possible for me.  This site fits that.


(Frank, you must have forgotten what the Texas Hill Country actually looks 
like.)


So, come out to TCR and have fun or stay away and miss it.  I much prefer 
that people at least give me the benefit of the doubt that this will work as 
a TCR site.  This will be a good TCR but the final choice is yours about 
whether you attend or not.  I would much prefer that people contact me 
directly if they have complaints rather than posting them in a public forum.


Everyone is welcome at TCR even if you complain.

Allan 



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[NMCAVER] 2010 Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Here is the first announcement for the 33rd Annual Texas Cavers Reunion. 
This year TCR will be on the 3100 acre Hidden Falls Adventure Park 
(www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com) on the weekend of October 15-17.  The 
ranch is conveniently located just 5 miles east of Marble Falls on FM1431. 
There will be lots of shady camping.  You can bring your 4WD, ATV, dirt 
bike, or mountain bike and enjoy the off-road trails throughout the 
property.  It is likely that we will once again offer the Slow Race so brush 
up on your off-road driving skills.  More info may be found at 
www.oztotl.com.  We will have the usual fun stuff.


Hope to see you there!
Allan 



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[Texascavers] 2010 Texas Cavers Reunion!

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Here is the first announcement for the 33rd Annual Texas Cavers Reunion. 
This year TCR will be on the 3100 acre Hidden Falls Adventure Park 
(www.hiddenfallsadventurepark.com) on the weekend of October 15-17.  The 
ranch is conveniently located just 5 miles east of Marble Falls on FM1431. 
There will be lots of shady camping.  You can bring your 4WD, ATV, dirt 
bike, or mountain bike and enjoy the off-road trails throughout the 
property.  It is likely that we will once again offer the Slow Race so brush 
up on your off-road driving skills.  More info may be found at 
www.oztotl.com.  We will have the usual fun stuff.


Hope to see you there!
Allan 



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[Texascavers] OT: Take a moment and help out a Texas caver...

[Allan Cobb]

Roy Wessel is in a contest for $40,000 and needs your vote.  He is a San 
Antonio caver who has been a long term member of the Bexar Grotto.  Briefly, 
he has been taking care of his girlfriend who has ALS, is on a ventilator, 
has a trach, and is on a feeding tube.  This is a full time job with no 
breaks, and he has not been able to work.  Winning this contest would be a 
blessing.  Help him if you can.  Today is the last day to vote.






Find Roy's story which is titled "

A Caring Spirit Like No Other" and rate his story to vote.

http://www.americadeservesaraise.com/read-and-vote/keyword/roy+w



The website and all the stories can be found at the site below:

http://www.americadeservesaraise.com/read-and-vote



Thanks,

Allan 



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Re: [Texascavers] Postings of late

[Allan Cobb]

Believe me, I know what it is like having to be the voice of reason in the 
face of silliness.


Allan
- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Goldsmith" 

To: "Allan Cobb" 
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Postings of late


Heh, thanks for the smile Allan.

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Allan Cobb  wrote:

Yeah, I've got gripes and complaints! There, take that!!!

Keep up the good work :-)

Allan

Re: [Texascavers] Postings of late

[Allan Cobb]

Yeah, I've got gripes and complaints!  There, take that!!!

Keep up the good work :-)

Allan

Re: [Texascavers] Re: cave guns

[Allan Cobb]

I have been caving in Arizona with cavers who carried guns while caving.  It 
seems that other cavers are not too friendly to cavers they find in those caves 
that no one speaks of.  Hopefully Texas won't get that way.  

Um, actually, I have never been caving in Arizona because they have no caves!  
;-)

Allan

Re: [Texascavers] Climate change -- OT

[Allan Cobb]

Texascavers mailing list is probably not the best forum to try to initiate a 
debate about climate change.

Allan

Re: [Texascavers] portable ladders

[Allan Cobb]

On a cave archeology project I am working on in Belize, we have been doing 
drops up to 30 feet with aluminum extension ladders. In one cave, I rig the 
70 foot entrance drop with two extension ladders with the need to cross a 
ledge and do a short climb down between the ladders.  It is kind of scary 
but it is the easiest way to get the archeologists into and out of the cave. 
Rigging and derigging the ladders is always fun!


Allan 



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Re: [Texascavers] Server donation

[Allan Cobb]

OO!!!

I DON'T WANT TO MODERATE, I WANT TO CAUSE TROUBLE!!


- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Goldsmith" 

To: "Allan Cobb" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Server donation


Done!  I  may even put you in charge of the list ;)  You can moderate.

Wait, thats punishment, LOL

Thanks for the laugh Allan

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Allan Cobb  wrote:

What do I get for my donation? ;-)

What I want a free lifetime subscription to Texascavers list. Can you do
that? For me? Please?

Allan

- Original Message - From: "Charles Goldsmith"

To: "George-Paul Richmann" 
Cc: ; "Cavetex" ;
; 
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Server donation


My goal is almost met, so any amount would be helpful, even $1. For
$10 a month, I'll put your name in blinking pink letters on every
email with a big Thank you :)

Charles

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:20 AM, George-Paul Richmann
 wrote:


How much do you need? How much has been raised so far? Where is my
free gift for donating at the 10$ a month level? If we are going to
have a fund raiser at least do it al la NPR.

Cheers,

GP

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:11 AM,  wrote:


Come on, y'all!


I made a donation to Charles, as I've used/abused CaveTex more than
anyone,
except for Locklear.


Let's all step up and help him out, as this valuable service is ran by
him
and comes out of his own pocket.


I shudder to think what caving in Texas would be like without it!



Thanks for running and maintaining this site, Charles, and for your free
rein approach.


Mark



From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Mon 11/2/2009 3:27 PM
To: Cavetex; memb...@netcavers.org; memb...@cowtowngrotto.org
Subject: [Texascavers] Server donation

I'm sending this email out to everyone I host sites/email for. I've
never asked for donations to offset the costs, and for purely personal
reasons, I want to do some minor upgrades to the server hosting all of
this.

This is a one time request, at least this year :) But seriously, you
won't find me doing this very often, if I even do it again.

If you appreciate the hosting, please go donate at
http://texaslans.com and hit the paypal link. Any amount would be
appreciated.

Thank you
Charles

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--
George-Paul Richmann
(513) 490-3100
gprichm...@gmail.com

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Re: [Texascavers] Server donation

[Allan Cobb]

What do I get for my donation?   ;-)

What I want a free lifetime subscription to Texascavers list.  Can you do 
that?  For me?  Please?


Allan

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Goldsmith" 

To: "George-Paul Richmann" 
Cc: ; "Cavetex" ; 
; 

Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Server donation


My goal is almost met, so any amount would be helpful, even $1.  For
$10 a month, I'll put your name in blinking pink letters on every
email with a big Thank you :)

Charles

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:20 AM, George-Paul Richmann
 wrote:

How much do you need? How much has been raised so far? Where is my
free gift for donating at the 10$ a month level? If we are going to
have a fund raiser at least do it al la NPR.

Cheers,

GP

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:11 AM,  wrote:


Come on, y'all!


I made a donation to Charles, as I've used/abused CaveTex more than 
anyone,

except for Locklear.


Let's all step up and help him out, as this valuable service is ran by 
him

and comes out of his own pocket.


I shudder to think what caving in Texas would be like without it!



Thanks for running and maintaining this site, Charles, and for your free
rein approach.


Mark



From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Mon 11/2/2009 3:27 PM
To: Cavetex; memb...@netcavers.org; memb...@cowtowngrotto.org
Subject: [Texascavers] Server donation

I'm sending this email out to everyone I host sites/email for. I've
never asked for donations to offset the costs, and for purely personal
reasons, I want to do some minor upgrades to the server hosting all of
this.

This is a one time request, at least this year :) But seriously, you
won't find me doing this very often, if I even do it again.

If you appreciate the hosting, please go donate at
http://texaslans.com and hit the paypal link. Any amount would be
appreciated.

Thank you
Charles

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--
George-Paul Richmann
(513) 490-3100
gprichm...@gmail.com

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Re: [Texascavers] Elections final

[Allan Cobb]

   President - Mark Alman   
  Vice-President - Ellie Thoene  

  Secretary - Denise Prendergast  

  Treasurer - Darla Bishop   

Congratulations to the new TSA Officers.  Thank you to each of you for 
volunteering to run the TSA.  Good luck in the coming year.

Allan

[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

I hope to see everyone at TCR this weekend (October 16-18) at Paradise 
Canyon (www.paradisecanyon.com ) along the scenic Medina River just west of 
San Antonio.  For more information and directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr 
or email a...@oztotl.com.


Make sure you check the website and get a copy of the map.  You can also put 
it into your GPS or print out direction from an online map souce such as 
Google maps or Yahoo maps.  When you arrive, the gate may be closed.  There 
will be a sign on the gate for TCR and another sign saying the park is 
closed for a private party.  We are the private party so open the gate and 
come on in.  Please go straight to registration or get there as soon as you 
can.  The park really wants liablity releases from everyone.


I will have the gate open Friday afternoon and early evening and then again 
on Sunday until about noon.  The rest of the time I would like to have the 
gate closed to prevent the general public from coming in.  If the gate is 
closed when you enter or leave, please close the gate behind you.  If you 
are walking by and see the gate open, please close it.


We also have a bunch or really great door prizes.  We have some REALLY nice 
stuff to give away.  Make sure you are around on Saturday evening to hear 
your name called to claim your door prize.


See y'all there...

Allan 



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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

TCR is this weekend (October 16-18) at Paradise Canyon 
(www.paradisecanyon.com ) again along the scenic Medina River just west of
San Antonio.  For more information and directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr 
or email a...@oztotl.com.  We need to be out of the park by 4 PM on Sunday.


The rates for this year's TCR are as follows:

Adults (18 and older)  $30
Children (13-17)  $15
Children under 13  FREE

Cavers who began caving in TEXAS before 1969 will need to fill out a short 
questionaire to recieve a discounted rate of $20.


There is a maximum amount of $90 that a family will pay.

It is important that you register as soon as you arrive.  Part of 
registration is filling out a release for required by Paradise Canyon.


Registration will not accept credit or debit cards.  We can accept checks 
but, if at all possible, it is easier on us if you bring cash.


Thanks and see y'all there...
Allan 



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[NMCAVER] Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

The Texas Cavers Reunion is shaping up to be one of the best ever.  We have 
lots of surprises in store for the weekend.


TCR is this weekend (October 16-18) at Paradise Canyon 
(www.paradisecanyon.com) again along the scenic Medina River just west of 
San Antonio.  For more information and directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr 
or email a...@oztotl.com.  We need to be out of the park by 4 PM on Sunday.


The weather for the weekend is looking wonderful.  The days will be partly 
cloudy and in the upper 70s and the nights will be a pleasant lower 50s.


Please bring a plate, bowl (or two), and silverware for the Big Feed on 
Saturday night. There will also be a fundraising dinner on Friday night and 
a fundraising breakfast.  Also bring some type of cup or mug.


Now for the basic rules.  This park does not normally allow dogs.  They make 
an exception for our group to bring dogs.  If you bring a dog, make sure you 
bring a leash to control your dog should it become unruly.  Also, be 
prepared to clean up after your dog. There will be other dogs and children 
around, if your dog is not well socialized around other dogs and children, 
consider keeping your dog leashed.


The park also does not allow glass bottles.  We have some leeway on this. 
If you bring glass bottles, make sure that you dispose of them properly. If 
you happen to break a glass bottle, do your best to clean up all the glass.


For the past several years, the owner has complimented our group by leaving 
the park cleaner than when we arrived.  Please take a few minutes before you 
leave and pick up any trash you see--whether it is yours or not.  There is a 
dumpster at the park where we can throw trash.


See y'all there...

Allan


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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

The Texas Cavers Reunion is shaping up to be one of the best ever.  We have 
lots of surprises in store for the weekend.


TCR is this weekend (October 16-18) at Paradise Canyon 
(www.paradisecanyon.com) again along the scenic Medina River just west of 
San Antonio.  For more information and directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr 
or email a...@oztotl.com.  We need to be out of the park by 4 PM on Sunday.


The weather for the weekend is looking wonderful.  The days will be partly 
cloudy and in the upper 70s and the nights will be a pleasant lower 50s.


Please bring a plate, bowl (or two), and silverware for the Big Feed on 
Saturday night. There will also be a fundraising dinner on Friday night and 
a fundraising breakfast.  Also bring some type of cup or mug.


Now for the basic rules.  This park does not normally allow dogs.  They make 
an exception for our group to bring dogs.  If you bring a dog, make sure you 
bring a leash to control your dog should it become unruly.  Also, be 
prepared to clean up after your dog. There will be other dogs and children 
around, if your dog is not well socialized around other dogs and children, 
consider keeping your dog leashed.


The park also does not allow glass bottles.  We have some leeway on this. 
If you bring glass bottles, make sure that you dispose of them properly. If 
you happen to break a glass bottle, do your best to clean up all the glass.


For the past several years, the owner has complimented our group by leaving 
the park cleaner than when we arrived.  Please take a few minutes before you 
leave and pick up any trash you see--whether it is yours or not.  There is a 
dumpster at the park where we can throw trash.


See y'all there...

Allan


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[NMCAVER] Texas Cavers Reunion 2009

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Just a friendly reminder that the Texas Cavers Reunion is just around the
corner.  It will be the weekend of October 16-18 at Paradise Canyon
(www.paradisecanyon.com) again along the scenic Medina River just west of
San Antonio.  If you've been there, you know it is a really nice place, if
you haven't been there, come on out and be prepared for a big surprise.  TCR
will have all the fun it usually has and will boast a low-key atmosphere.

If you have never attended a Texas Cavers Reunion, please try and make plans
to attend.  You will get to meet lots of cavers from around Texas and
beyond.  You will have a chance to buy caving gear, books, and caving
related things.  TCR is a great place to see old friends and make new ones.

We will have the Big Feed on Saturday evening followed by awards and some
really nice door prizes.  Sunday morning there will be meetings of the TSA
and TCMA.  Everyone is invited and even encouraged to attend these meetings.
More information on other events will be coming soon.

Please put TCR on your calendar and make sure you tell all your caving
friends to see you there.  Please make sure TCR gets mentioned at grotto
meetings, in grotto newsletters, and posted on grotto calendars.  For more
information and directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr or email a...@oztotl.com.

See y'all there...

Allan


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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion 2009

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Just a friendly reminder that the Texas Cavers Reunion is just around the 
corner.  It will be the weekend of October 16-18 at Paradise Canyon 
(www.paradisecanyon.com) again along the scenic Medina River just west of 
San Antonio.  If you've been there, you know it is a really nice place, if 
you haven't been there, come on out and be prepared for a big surprise.  TCR 
will have all the fun it usually has and will boast a low-key atmosphere.


If you have never attended a Texas Cavers Reunion, please try and make plans 
to attend.  You will get to meet lots of cavers from around Texas and 
beyond.  You will have a chance to buy caving gear, books, and caving 
related things.  TCR is a great place to see old friends and make new ones.


We will have the Big Feed on Saturday evening followed by awards and some 
really nice door prizes.  Sunday morning there will be meetings of the TSA 
and TCMA.  Everyone is invited and even encouraged to attend these meetings. 
More information on other events will be coming soon.


Please put TCR on your calendar and make sure you tell all your caving 
friends to see you there.  Please make sure TCR gets mentioned at grotto
meetings, in grotto newsletters, and posted on grotto calendars.  For more 
information and directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr or email a...@oztotl.com.


See y'all there...

Allan


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Re: [Texascavers] TCR Volunteers

[Allan Cobb]

Sheryl, I have some special tasks that I have already volunteered you for!  ;-)

For everyone else, as we get closer, I will have ideas for more volunteer tasks.

Right now, we always need help with registration.  You can contact me or Mark 
Alman to volunteer.

The cooks are always in need of people to help clean up on Sunday morning.  
They often need prep help and serving help, too.  The cooks may also need help 
hauling stuff out and back home.  To volunteer for those jobs, contact Stefan 
Creaser.

We need firewood for the various fires.  Contact me if you are in the Central 
Texas area.

I'm sure the more tasks will come up.

Thanks,
Allan
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sheryl Rieck 
  To: Texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:52 PM
  Subject: [Texascavers] TCR Volunteers


  Allan,

   

  I have not seen a listing of volunteers that you need for TCR.  I assume you 
need volunteers?  I would actually volunteer if I knew what to sign up for.  I 
can't volunteer for an unknown task for fear of latrine duty or something 
equally disgusting.  

   

  Sheryl, Ready for TCR!

[NMCAVER] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion -- River Level Update

[Allan Cobb]

Kurt Menking was out at the TCR site near San Antonio along the scenic 
Medina River over the weekend.  He reports that the water level is about the 
same as last year and that the water is flowing and clear.  It looks like it 
will be fine for TCR this year.


I would like to invite all of the New Mexico cavers to come on down to Texas 
and join us for the Texas Cavers Reuinion.  If you been in the past, you 
know it is a great time.  If you have not been, come on down and check it 
our for yourself.  The dates are October 16-18.  For more information or 
directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr.  Feel free to repost this in any 
appropriate place and add it to caving calendars.


See y'all there,
Allan 



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Re: [Texascavers] Paradise Canyon

[Allan Cobb]

Thanks for the update Kurt.  TCR should be really great this year.  The 
water is looking good and things are shaping up nicely.  I look forward to 
cavers showing up and having a good time.  I can guarantee that we will not 
be using any RFID technology for registration, so no worries there.


If you need directions to TCR, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr for information and 
directions.  The dates are October 16-18, 2009.  I hope everyone can make it 
out and enjoy a fun, relaxed event.


See y'all there,
Allan 



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Re: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Anything is possible.  Most problems can be solved by throwing money at them.  
However, my latest report is that the water is about the same level it was last 
year at the park.  Unless it gets much, much drier (how could that happen?), we 
will have plenty of water to play in and cool off in.

Allan
  - Original Message - 
  From: cavera...@aol.com 
  To: gonza...@msu.edu ; texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:26 AM
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion


  Regarding washing, etc., water at TCR: how much would it cost to have a 
non-potable water truck or trailer placed at the site for hosing off, filling 
the hot tub, etc. if there is no flowing water at the time of the event?  Is 
that feasible? 


  Roger Moore

Re: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Oztotl says there will be at least some water.  Oztotl has spoken with Tlaloc 
and they are trying to work out a deal.
  - Original Message - 
  From: wesley s 
  To: a...@oztotl.com ; texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:06 AM
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion


  Yes but will there be water to swim in? If levels get too low all of the flow 
out of that reservoir will go down that diversion channel and not over the dam. 
Is there a river authority for the Medina? Will they let it run dry or do they 
have to keep the river bed wet for the fish and wildlife?

  Wes~

[NMCAVER] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Now that ICS is over, it is time to think about the Texas Cavers Reunion.
The weather should be cooler than it was at ICS but it should still be warm
enough to swim.  TCR will be at Paradise Canyon (www.paradisecanyon.com)
again along the scenic Medina River just west of San Antonio.  The dates are
October 16-18.  If you've been there, you know it is a really nice place, if
you haven't been there, come on out and be prepared for a big surprise.  TCR
will have all the fun it usually has and will boast a low-key atmosphere.

If you have never attended a Texas Cavers Reunion, please try and make plans
to attend.  You will get to meet lots of cavers from around Texas and
beyond.  You will have a chance to buy caving gear, books, and caving
related things.  TCR is a great place to see old friends and make new ones.

We will have the Big Feed on Saturday evening followed by awards and some
really nice door prizes.  Sunday morning there will be meetings of the TSA
and TCMA.  Everyone is invited to attend these meetings.  More information
on other events will be coming soon.

Please put TCR on your calendar and make sure you tell all your caving
friends to see you there.  Please make sure TCR gets mentioned at grotto
meetings, in grotto newsletters, and posted on grotto calendars.  For more
information and directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr or email
t...@oztotl.com.

See y'all there...

Allan


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[Texascavers] 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy y'all,

Now that ICS is over, it is time to think about the Texas Cavers Reunion. 
The weather should be cooler than it was at ICS but it should still be warm 
enough to swim.  TCR will be at Paradise Canyon (www.paradisecanyon.com) 
again along the scenic Medina River just west of San Antonio.  The dates are 
October 16-18.  If you've been there, you know it is a really nice place, if 
you haven't been there, come on out and be prepared for a big surprise.  TCR 
will have all the fun it usually has and will boast a low-key atmosphere.


If you have never attended a Texas Cavers Reunion, please try and make plans 
to attend.  You will get to meet lots of cavers from around Texas and 
beyond.  You will have a chance to buy caving gear, books, and caving 
related things.  TCR is a great place to see old friends and make new ones.


We will have the Big Feed on Saturday evening followed by awards and some 
really nice door prizes.  Sunday morning there will be meetings of the TSA 
and TCMA.  Everyone is invited to attend these meetings.  More information 
on other events will be coming soon.


Please put TCR on your calendar and make sure you tell all your caving 
friends to see you there.  Please make sure TCR gets mentioned at grotto 
meetings, in grotto newsletters, and posted on grotto calendars.  For more 
information and directions, visit www.oztotl.com/tcr or email 
t...@oztotl.com.


See y'all there...

Allan 



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Re: [Texascavers] What it TAKES -- You got it... ICS TEXAS!

[Allan Cobb]

Allan Cobb and Sparky the golf cart coordinated all cultural events --
parties, trips, banquets, and sundry.


Sparky (my golf cart) was a real workhorse.  Many of you saw me as an almost 
permanent attachment to seat of Sparky.  Sparky saved me at least 25 miles 
of walking a day.  I decorated Sparky with a Texas flag and it was a big 
hit.  Many groups of foreign cavers were seen taking their picture in front 
of Sparky's flag.  Yesterday, when I took the flag off of Sparky, I gave the 
flag to a very appreciative European caver. 



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Re: [Texascavers] What it TAKES -- You got it... ICS TEXAS!

[Allan Cobb]

Like I said, making any kind of list like this always leaves out very 
deserving people.  This is by no means meant to slight anyone.


Courtney Corbell and Justin Menking were two young workhorses.  They always 
seemed to be around and were always working.  Without them, many things 
would simple not have gotten done.  Thanks to both of you...


Allan 



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Re: [Texascavers] What it TAKES -- You got it... ICS TEXAS!

[Allan Cobb]

The problem with making any kind of list for an event like this is that 
people always get left off.  Linda asked me to look over the list before she 
sent it out.  After she sent it, more names started popping up.


Big thanks got to Bob West and Jocie Hooper for working on rooms.  They were 
very busy getting people into and out of their rooms.


Lisa Goggins was a huge help in making signs that kept us informed and 
driving the right way!


Also, big thanks go to Linda Palit for pulling off not one, but two banquets 
during the week.  This was done even with all the obstacles that were thrown 
in.  We had to change the venue for the banquets the week before ICS.  This 
meant that most of the planning that had been done prior to ICS had to be 
thrown out or adapted to the new location.


I'm sure there are many others who spent time, effort, energy, and money to 
make ICS happen.  Thanks to all of the volunteers who pitched in one way or 
another.


Allan
- Original Message - 
From: "Linda Palit" 

To: "'Texascavers'" 
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:31 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] What it TAKES -- You got it... ICS TEXAS!



Many, many Texas Cavers stepped up to do a part to make ICS happen!  A few
more THANKS! are in order -- in addition to all those mentioned before. 
I'll

try not to list people already mentioned.

Things were not perfect, but they happened, and mostly smoothly.

Bev Shade came back from Argentina to deal with facilities.  She was still
loading tables and tearing down when I was back to Kerrville about noon
today.  Bev made sure there were tables and chairs where they needed to be
--
Rick Corbel did audio/visual.  He worked to make sure there were 
projectors

and sound everywhere needed -- and work he did with the help of a host of
others including Marvin Miller back from the southeast.
Bill Steele put on Texas sized and style Howdy Party!
Bob Cowell worked on camp grounds -- and helped coordinate sinks, showers,
trash cans, and whatever was needed in camp.
Sara Ranzau was the ICE Queen -- making sure there was ice for the kegs,
caving trips, kegs, and whatever else we needed Ice for.
Travis Scott with the help of Joe Mitchell did trips -- caving -- trying 
to

keep up with what was making, what was needed, what would work.
Joe Ranzau coordinated food -- and other junk -- but the food was 
sometimes
a big challenge with the guy who negotiated the food contract leaving so 
he

did not have to make it happen.
Kurt Menking organized Wednesday Trips and made sure they happened, 
calling

a replacement driver out of bed to take a trip.
Bob West and Josie Hooper were still working on rooms today -- great job
with that.
John Moses, ICS secretary, (El Paso is part of Texas) who helped organize 
it

all and pitched in where needed.
Joe Mitchell did cultural trips -- buses where people wanted to go in 
TEXAS

-- though the River Trips were really hard with no water.
Michael & Melissa Cicherski tried to keep us from bankrupting the NSS --
maybe they succeeded -- but a very thankless job from my point of view.
Jon Cradit coordinated facilities -- rentals and all the other stuff 
needed

to make it happen.
Allan Cobb and Sparky the golf cart coordinated all cultural events --
parties, trips, banquets, and sundry.
Charles Goldsmith came out of hiding to prove he is not a myth, and worked
hard all week making sure we had internet -- then hauling kegs.

All of the people above could not have done it without all the help of 
each

Texas Caver who pitched in for 30 minutes or 10 days.
I'm sure I have forgotten or missed specifics, but

Texas hosted an International Congress and did a GREAT job!
Thanks to ALL.




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Re: [Texascavers] dating pictographs

[Allan Cobb]

The downside to the sampling is that it is a destructive method.  Taking the 
samples is rather tedious because the preferred method is to look for flakes of 
pigment that are about to fall off.  You then pluck these off with fine pointed 
tweezers.  You also try to sample from all over the same piece of rock art 
rather than concentrating on one spot.  Before and after pictures are taken and 
it is often impossible to tell that the rock art was sampled.  The sample size 
is measured in milligrams.

One of the easiest samplings that I did was on some rock art from a cave called 
Naj Tunich in Guatemala.  The rock art was actually an inscription panel that 
was vandalized and badly smeared.  That rock art was a prime candidate because 
it was vandalized and because the inscription recorded the date of a Maya ruler 
visiting the cave.  We knew the exact date of the inscription so it was a good 
test for validating the method.

The decision on sampling rock art is not taken lightly.  The rock art must have 
some really good reason for being sampled and it must have a good potential for 
providing new information.  This sampling is not widely done on rock art.  

Allan

Re: [Texascavers] dating pictographs

[Allan Cobb]

Yes, I have worked with Marvin Rowe and even published some papers with him. 
I have also collected rock art samples for dating by him.  He is a fun 
person in the field.  I just saw him back in April at the Society of 
American Archeologists Conference in Atlanta.  Marvin actually got into 
dating by working on methods for dating meteorites to determine the age of 
the solar system.


Here is the short version of how rock art is dated.  In dating rock art, the 
basic approach is to date the organic binder used in the rock art pigment. 
In the case of rock art done with charcoal, the charcoal be used for dating. 
With either type of sample, the pigment is washed with acid to remove 
inorganic carbon from either the pigment or the rock surface that 
contaminates the sample.  Then the cleaned up sample is "burned" in an argon 
plasma flame and the organic carbon from the organic material is deposited 
and collected.  It is this organic carbon that is then sent off for AMS 
dating.


Allan 



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[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion 2009

[Allan Cobb]

Howdy Y'all,

I know that the ICS in Kerrville is fast approaching and that many of us are 
up to our eyeballs in planning for that.  However, the Texas Cavers Reunion 
is also on the horizon.


I just confirmed the date for the 2009 Texas Cavers Reunion for the third 
weekend of October.  That makes the date October 16-18.  The location will 
be at Paradise Canyon again, just outside of San Antonio on the scenic 
Medina River.  I have not updated the website yet but will do so soon. 
Please mark your calendars and I hope to see all y'all there!


Allan 



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[Texascavers] Additional information about White Nose Syndrome (WNS)

[Allan Cobb]

Peter Youngbaer, NSS WNS Liaison, has requested that the following information
be sent out on the Grotto Conservation Network (GCN).  Please forward this
info out to your membership.

  For Jim Werker and Val Hildreth-Werker, NSS Conservation Co-Chairs

Steve Smith
GCN Coordinator

..

Dear Val and Steve,

It would much appreciated if you could send the following out to the
conservation and grotto networks.  While plenty of people search out the NSS
WNS website and other WNS pages and chats, many cavers also get news through
their grottos and local list servers.  We really need to make sure we are
communicating through as many channels as possible.  Thanks very much for your
help.  Peter

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

White Nose Syndrome has now been confirmed in several new states this
winter:  Pennsylvania, West Virginia, New Hampshire, and New Jersey.  A likely
site has also been reported in Virginia.  Wildlife officials in Illinois have
closed all but one of their caves to the public.  Further reports are likely
before the end of winter.  What had been limited to the northeast is quickly
becoming a far more national issue.

Below is a link to an excellent, in depth, and up-to-date report on WNS
including the latest research findings.  It includes photographs from West
Virginia, and interviews with several of the leading WNS researchers.  Some of
what they report was discussed at length in a national WNS webinar on February
20 in which over 45 university and laboratory researchers, federal and state
wildlife officials, and ngos BCI and the NSS participated.

http://www.earthfil es.com/news. php?ID=1529&category=Environmen
t>http://www.earthfil es.com/news. php?ID=1529&category=Environmen t> 

As cavers and cave conservationists across the country are unfortunately
becoming more personally affected by the reach of WNS, it is important to
re-emphasize the need to clean and decontaminate clothing and gear.  The USFWS
has protocols on this for cavers and researchers working with bats which can
be found at:http://www.fws.gov/northeast/whitenosemessage.html.  

Please know that we understand these protocols are challenging and
inconvenient. They are being examined for better efficacy, and to balance the
biological containment needs with safety, have been updated, and are likely to
change again as more is learned about WNS.  Please check the site regularly
before caving.

A number of states have suspended their regular winter bat surveys in
order to prevent further spread of WNS as much as possible, and to permit
hibernating bat colonies under stress from being disturbed further.  While it
may be likely that WNS will continue to spread on its own - bat to bat - we
can do our part to help slow it down, possibly buying time for the research to
catch up.  

Cave clean, cave safely, and cave softly.  Thank you.

Peter Youngbaer NSS 16161
NSS WNS Liaison










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[Texascavers] Giant Bird Poo Records Pre-human New Zealand

[Allan Cobb]

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/547990/?sc=dwhn

Newswise - A treasure trove of information about pre-human New Zealand has been 
found in faeces from giant extinct birds, buried beneath the floor of caves and 
rock shelters for thousands of years.

A team of ancient DNA and palaeontology researchers from the University of 
Adelaide, University of Otago and the NZ Department of Conservation have 
published their analyses of plant seeds, leaf fragments and DNA from the dried 
faeces (coprolites) to start building the first detailed picture of an 
ecosystem dominated by giant extinct species.

Former PhD student Jamie Wood, from the University of Otago, discovered more 
than 1500 coprolites in remote areas across southern New Zealand, primarily 
from species of the extinct giant moa, which ranged up to 250 kilograms and 
three metres in height. Some of the faeces recovered were up to 15 centimetres 
in length.

"Surprisingly for such large birds, over half the plants we detected in the 
faeces were under 30 centimetres in height," says Dr Wood. "This suggests that 
some moa grazed on tiny herbs, in contrast to the current view of them as 
mainly shrub and tree browsers. We also found many plant species that are 
currently threatened or rare, suggesting that the extinction of the moa has 
impacted their ability to reproduce or disperse."

"New Zealand offers a unique chance to reconstruct how a 'megafaunal ecosystem' 
functioned," says Professor Alan Cooper, Director of the Australian Centre for 
Ancient DNA, which performed the DNA typing. 

"You can't do this elsewhere in the world because the giant species became 
extinct too long ago, so you don't get such a diverse record of species and 
habitats. Critically, the interactions between animals and plants we see in the 
poo provides key information about the origins and background to our current 
environment, and predicting how it will respond to future climate change and 
extinctions."

"When animals shelter in caves and rock shelters, they leave faeces which can 
survive for thousands of years if dried out," Professor Cooper says. "Given the 
arid conditions, Australia should probably have similar deposits from the 
extinct giant marsupials. A key question for us is 'where has all the 
Australian poo gone?'"

Other University of Adelaide members of the research team include Dr Jeremy 
Austin and Dr Trevor Worthy from the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA, part of 
the University's newly-established Environment Institute. 

The team's findings have recently been published in Quaternary Science Reviews, 
an international geological research journal.

[Texascavers] Anita Gass (Honey Creek Cave owner) Passed Away

[Allan Cobb]

Anita Gass passed away Sunday night in her sleep. For those who don't  
know, she and her late husband Johnny Gass were the owners of Honey  
Creek Cave. Below are the funeral arrangements:


The viewing is at 6:00pm with a Rosery at 7:00pm tomorrow evening,  
Wednesday

The funeral is at 11:00am on Thursday.
The viewing, Rosery and funeral will be held at St. Joseph Catholic  
Church of Honeycreek on Hwy. 46.


Address: 25781 Highway 46 West
Spring Branch, Texas 78070

Contact Kurt Menking if you need additional information.

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Re: [Texascavers] geriatic caving gear

[Allan Cobb]

This looks like it would work well with a rope walker system.  This should 
make Golandrinas easier for everyone!


Allan
- Original Message - 
From: "David" 

To: "Texascavers Mailing List" 
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:05 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] geriatic caving gear



Many of us will be caving with one of these soon:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/11/07/robotic.walker.ap/index.html

or at least while we are hiking to the cave.

Will this help people climbing rope?Or will it need to be modified
for that?

David Locklear

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