Re: [Texascavers] Bet You Can’t Name the World’s Fastest Mammal

[Bruce]

According to this article the Peregrine pokes along at only 60 mph in 
horizontal flight and can only hit top speed while diving; whereas, the Common 
swift clocks in at 69 mph, still a bit pokey. Like the Peregrine, I believe 
swifts can dive much faster than they can fly horizontally. 

 I once had the pleasure of visiting Hoya de las Guaguas on a trip led by 
Dapper Don B (who wears button down shirts and always seemed unnaturally 
clean!) 

While resting at the bottom of the first drop, which I suppose to be around 700 
feet down, I became aware what sounded like small sonic booms. At first I 
couldn't figure out what was causing it, but when I went to the top of the 
scree slope and looked straight up I could see that Swifts we diving down into 
the pit so fast that, like a speeding bullet, they could only be seen when they 
were coming straight toward me. Just before hitting me between the eyes they 
would suddenly bank, turn, then plunge down into the lower pit. It was the 
banking and turning that was creating the booms. The birds were traveling so 
fast that if I looked at their flight path diagonally I couldn't see them. 

I once observed a similar "sonic boom" phenomenon while watching the mating 
displays of male nighthawks which plummet straight down from the heavens to 
within a few feet of the ground to impress the ladies, much as do the "land 
diving" cannibals of Vanuatu. It is said that the booming sound is purposefully 
produced by the ruffling of feathers, not because they are breaking the sound 
barrier. This is an evolved behavior practiced by all male Nighthawks, but can 
the same be said of the Swifts screaming down into Hoya de las Guaguas? Swifts 
also have a spectacular aerial mating display, but I don't think it includes 
flying straight toward the ground to make a mechanical noise. 

Is it possible that the Swifts are actually breaking the sound barrier as they 
dive, wheel, and turn, much in the manner of a cracking whip? If so they would 
be by far the fastest animals on earth!

Sleaze

Ps: One other thing in regard to bats, whip cracking, and speed. In the 
suburban Maryland of my youth I would often fly fish at dusk. Even when I 
couldn't catch fish I would often catch bats on the wing with a tiny fly. Great 
sport!

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Lee H. 
Skinner
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 1:54 PM
To: New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers 

Subject: [Texascavers] Bet You Can’t Name the World’s Fastest Mammal

It's not the Cheetah!


https://blog.nature.org/science/2018/10/10/bet-you-cant-name-the-worlds-fastest-mammal/?src=e.nature.dlapdo.0818.loc_b=4781941=true=n=n=n


Lee Skinner

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | 
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Bill Steele Saw The Truth

[Bruce]

Not a conspiracy theory, I really have heard people say I’m not a real caver, 
it was just a comment on the in group out group social dynamics typical of all 
special interest groups no matter how small. Nonetheless, I remain confused 
(about a lot of things!). I still don’t know if my posts from Peru made it out 
of cyber perdition to the list at large for I certainly haven’t seen them. 
Perhaps that is due to the method of delivery I have chosen? (Digest I think?) 
I still don’t know why I invariably get a message in return stating that my 
post awaits moderation, perhaps something to do with implicit destination 
whatever that means? It is my usual practice to send the post to myself then 
BCC the list and any other interested friends. Despite my efforts to wean 
myself from the evils of AOL I believe I have used a registered AOL address on 
all submissions. Am I wrong? Did I change my registered address? Por favor, 
someone set me straight!

 

SW

 

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Charles 
Loving
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 3:25 PM
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Steele Saw The Truth

 

 

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 2:02 PM Katherine Arens mailto:ar...@austin.utexas.edu> > wrote:

it meant you sent them to the list from your OTHER email . . . not the one 
you’re registered with.  No conspiracy theories, please.

On Oct 10, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Bruce mailto:bmorgan...@aol.com> > wrote:

 

I have heard it said many times, both to my face and otherwise, that “The so 
called Weazel isn’t a ‘real’ caver”. It is true that I generally dislike cold, 
wet, muddy, dark places, have never surveyed an inch, and have an unconquerable 
terror of heights including exposure to anything over 18 inches below where I 
am standing. I prefer not to participate in anything resembling an organized 
trip, much less an official expedition, and I rarely if ever go to grotto 
meetings. In fact, I’m not even a current member of any grotto, especially the 
ones here in Florida that resemble a cross between a boy scout troop and a 
church group.  The fact that during the last 55 years (I started when I was 15 
or so) I have visited many hundreds of pits and thousands of caves around the 
world apparently doesn’t count. As in politics, the only thing that counts is 
whether or not you are a member of ‘MY’ group, otherwise you are an imposter or 
one of ‘them the others’. 

 

SW

 

Ps: While in Peru for the last two months I sent several trip reports to this 
list but have no idea if any of them made it through. All I have ever gotten 
was a notification that “This post awaits moderator approval” or something to 
that effect. The lack of echoes makes me think I have just been shouting in the 
dark to no effect. Am I the new David? Have my posts gone through or have they 
been rejected as coming from someone who isn’t a ‘real’ caver? 

 

From: Texascavers < <mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com> 
texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com> On Behalf Of Logan
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 2:47 AM
To:  <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Steele Saw The Truth

 

Yep, I think many of us have had that experience. Mention caving and listen to 
a long description of their harrowing adventures at Enchanted Rock, Garner 
State Park, or Gorman Cave back when it was privately owned and open to 
everyone. Amazing how many "undiscovered" caves there are out there with 
"miles' of passage that cavers have never seen. Sure, there are some, but not 
the ones these folks describe. 

On 10/9/2018 1:11 AM, Carl Kunath wrote:

Bill is exactly right.  It’s an inconvenient truth that you are allowed to 
characterize yourself as a caver despite only minimal, sometimes miniscule, 
participation in that activity.  Seen from another viewpoint, those peripheral 
experiences may have been powerful enough to last a lifetime.  I have 
encountered the same things/memories/claims as Bill.  It IS very much an 
individual frame of reference.

 

===Carl Kunath

 <mailto:carl.kun...@suddenlink.net> carl.kun...@suddenlink.net

 


  _  


 

 

From:  <mailto:cwilliamste...@gmail.com> Bill Steele

In my 42 years of living in Texas I have run into two people who said their 
fathers were cavers and when I later met the fathers it turned out they went to 
Bustamante (Grutas del Palmito) once when in college. It comes down to your 
point of reference.

 

Bill Steele 

 <mailto:speleoste...@aol.com> speleoste...@aol.com


 

 

 

 


 
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient_term=icon>
 

Virus-free.  
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient_term=link>
 www.avast.com





___
Texascavers mailing list |  <http://texascavers.com/> http://

Re: [Texascavers] Bill Steele Saw The Truth

[Bruce]

I have heard it said many times, both to my face and otherwise, that “The so 
called Weazel isn’t a ‘real’ caver”. It is true that I generally dislike cold, 
wet, muddy, dark places, have never surveyed an inch, and have an unconquerable 
terror of heights including exposure to anything over 18 inches below where I 
am standing. I prefer not to participate in anything resembling an organized 
trip, much less an official expedition, and I rarely if ever go to grotto 
meetings. In fact, I’m not even a current member of any grotto, especially the 
ones here in Florida that resemble a cross between a boy scout troop and a 
church group.  The fact that during the last 55 years (I started when I was 15 
or so) I have visited many hundreds of pits and thousands of caves around the 
world apparently doesn’t count. As in politics, the only thing that counts is 
whether or not you are a member of ‘MY’ group, otherwise you are an imposter or 
one of ‘them the others’. 

 

SW

 

Ps: While in Peru for the last two months I sent several trip reports to this 
list but have no idea if any of them made it through. All I have ever gotten 
was a notification that “This post awaits moderator approval” or something to 
that effect. The lack of echoes makes me think I have just been shouting in the 
dark to no effect. Am I the new David? Have my posts gone through or have they 
been rejected as coming from someone who isn’t a ‘real’ caver? 

 

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Logan
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 2:47 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Steele Saw The Truth

 

Yep, I think many of us have had that experience. Mention caving and listen to 
a long description of their harrowing adventures at Enchanted Rock, Garner 
State Park, or Gorman Cave back when it was privately owned and open to 
everyone. Amazing how many "undiscovered" caves there are out there with 
"miles' of passage that cavers have never seen. Sure, there are some, but not 
the ones these folks describe. 

On 10/9/2018 1:11 AM, Carl Kunath wrote:

Bill is exactly right.  It’s an inconvenient truth that you are allowed to 
characterize yourself as a caver despite only minimal, sometimes miniscule, 
participation in that activity.  Seen from another viewpoint, those peripheral 
experiences may have been powerful enough to last a lifetime.  I have 
encountered the same things/memories/claims as Bill.  It IS very much an 
individual frame of reference.

 

===Carl Kunath

carl.kun...@suddenlink.net  

 


  _  


 

 

From: Bill Steele   

In my 42 years of living in Texas I have run into two people who said their 
fathers were cavers and when I later met the fathers it turned out they went to 
Bustamante (Grutas del Palmito) once when in college. It comes down to your 
point of reference.

 

Bill Steele 

speleoste...@aol.com  


 

 

 

 


 

 

Virus-free.  

 www.avast.com 






___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com   | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

 

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Road-trip report

[Bruce]

“Sinusoidal oscillating illusion” 

 

David, this is your best, pure poetry!

 

Sleaze

 

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of David
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 6:17 PM
To: CaveTex 
Subject: [Texascavers] Road-trip report

 

>From David Locklear

Hit delete button now

 

 

I am on my way home, with 300 more miles to drive.  The word "home" is not the 
correct word, but it will have to do.

 

I learned little in this journey except that a swimming hole called LONG POOL 
is somewhere I need to go every summer.

 

People seemed to be weird everywhere I went.   

 

There are way too many opportunities to get a traffic citation.   We need a 
special Federal Pass that allows people to travel and not get a traffic 
citation.  I would buy that.   What a waste of taxpayer resources are TTW's ( 
traffic ticket writers ).

 

There are way too many 18-wheelers on the road.

 

I tried to meet up with distant cousins that I had not seen in years, or that I 
had never met.  That was futile, and ended up being a waste of time.  I can 
sleep in peace knowing I gave it 100% effort.

 

In the past 2 weeks, I wasted probably 20 man-hours on Craigslist trying to 
find paying riders.   That too, was a total waste of time.  I doubt I would 
have found a sane honest person.   While I joke about my own insanity, or poke 
fun at myself, at least I am upfront about it.   People on Craigslist looking 
for a ride can not be trusted. 

 

I put my Sequoia in the shop last week and spent $ 1,600 on repairs.   But they 
did something to cause "parasitic battery drain."   This ended up being a 
setback causing me numerous problems.   One Arkansas Hillbilly Evangelist ( AHE 
) took advantage of my misfortune and used it to bless my journey.

 

Floating downstream on all that cool flowing limestone-filtered water under a 
shady pine tree while drinking your favorite cold beverage can severely warp 
one's brain.

I became home-sick, but not for where I live, but for a place that doesn't 
exist.

 

In fact, while laying I discovered a new theory that vegetation such as flora ( 
trees and flowers ) actually has a soul and that their soul has the unique 
power to exist in 2 dimensions of time and space at the exact same moment in 
sort of a sinusoidal oscillating illusion.  Other creatures can't do that.  [ 
Disclaimer: I was downwind of some farmers burning trashpile. ]

 

It is really hard to go on a road-trip alone in the heat of the summer.   A 
driver needs an assistant to help watch the road for hazards, exists, to 
operate the phone and the radio and plan for food and gas stops.  I was 
thinking I need a robot to do such things, like Buck Rogers had.  I mean it is 
2018.  Right ?

 

One odd thing happened to me:

 

I had the swimming hole all to myself.  I have been indoors for 3 years, and so 
my skin is bleach white.  I have also gained an enormous amount of wait 
recently.When locals arrived at the swimming hole, they thought that I was 
a dead rotting corpse that had washed ashore and so the were asking me, "Hey 
Mister, are you alive ?"

 

David 

 

 

   

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] [Sandia Grotto]: Re: [SWR CAVERS] NSS Publication / scam?

[Bruce]

“Be a little more tolerant and teach tolerance except of people who are not 
tolerant of immigrants (you are one), children who can’t read or write and 
those who pollute and misuse natural resources.”

 

As a person who generally supports progressive policies and loathes the current 
administration I take great umbrage at reactionary liberals, often referred to 
as the “regressive totalitarian left”, who insist that just because I am in 
favor of basic fairness and environmental protection I must necessarily buy the 
whole politically correct sack of shit which includes so called “human rights” 
such as open borders, acceptance of perverse public behaviors, and the 
“equality” of those who are clearly not equal despite the fact that they have 
opposable thumbs and walk upright. Do not expect me to show equal respect to 
people who repeatedly commit stupid crimes, speak ebonics, and cannot read or 
write despite being given every opportunity to improve themselves. The failure 
of those on the left to deal with reality is why our nation is currently ruled 
(not run!) by a “Tangerine Wank Maggot” (From a sign seen at a recent 
demonstration  in London). 

 

I am aware that we are a nation of immigrants, and personally hold the Mexican 
people in high regard, but it does not follow that I want our nation to be 
flooded with uneducated economic migrants from cultures with high birthrates. 
For the last several decades most of the population growth in our county has 
been due to immigration and children born to immigrants. Whether they arrived 
here legally or illegally is irrelevant to me, I only care about the fact that 
these otherwise innocent people occupy space, eat, shit, and most importantly 
breed. 

 

It is most unfortunate that the world has become so overcrowded that issues 
such as human rights and immigration must be approached on a practical rather 
than a moral basis, but so it is. 

 

Sleazel

 

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Misc
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 12:05 PM
To: Linda Starr 
Cc: Steve Peerman ; texascavers@texascavers.com; 
swrcav...@googlegroups.com; Sandia Grotto 
; Allen 
Wright ; Lee Skinner 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [Sandia Grotto]: Re: [SWR CAVERS] NSS Publication / 
scam?

 

Linda,

You make this too easy.

We all are tolerant, even when folk break the law; federal or local (the U.S. 
is very compassionate towards felons, allowing sentence reduction, paroles, 
etc. Just review how we handled the living aggressors of 911, and the continued 
killings by the illegal deported aliens that return here). Illegal aliens have 
broken the federal law (crossed our international border without our 
permission) and therefore are felons. That makes them illegal and targeted for 
deportation.

The U.S. has a legal immigration policy and practice. (In my opinion, it needs 
to be tightened, allowing fewer immigrants for the next decade or so). *Let any 
desirable immigrant get in line and submit their request through that system.* 
It's there for a reason - but not to be abused or bypassed.

For consistency, the U.S. needs *one* language, English, the predominant one. 
That way, everyone is on the same literary page, instead of this dual-language 
nonsense that has to be printed on most products within our English country.

Natural resources: you seem to regard the U.S.'s natural resources as a 
paramount icon. I like our national resources as well; we as a nation have been 
blessed by God. Those resources provide fiscal independence from other nations. 
So if you regard them so highly, why don't you trek along our international 
border from Texas to Kalifornia and clean up the trash left by all the illegal 
immigrants in the weeds and wilderness areas. Don't make preservation 
statements without backing those up with your action and work.

MAGA,

Mark Winscott

On 7/23/2018 1:14 AM, Linda Starr wrote:

Thank you, Diana. The NSS did give you all notice. Read your NSS News. Be a 
little more tolerant and teach tolerance except of people who are not tolerant 
of immigrants (you are one), children who can’t read or write and those who 
pollute and misuse natural resources. 

Linda Starr

 

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 19, 2018, at 4:06 PM, Charles Goldsmith mailto:wo...@justfamily.org> > wrote:

Diana, current members update this yearly when they renew, or if they renew 
multiple years, then when it expires.  If someone chose to let their membership 
lapse, then this is unsolicited contact. 

 

I understand the reason for this, but it was not handled properly, in my 
opinion and I certainly didn't opt in for any phone calls at any time.

 

 

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 5:52 PM Diana Tomchick 
mailto:diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu> > 
wrote:

​Hi,

 

The NSS, like lots of volunteer organizations, needs to know who are the people 
that are interested in receiving information from the organization. Since many 
people change email addresses and phone numbers, after a few years, the 

Re: [Texascavers] Ernie and dead vehicles

[Bruce]

Nancy: 

I would also recommend that you steal some fresh veggies from the Gluesen's 
camp and fix dinner for Ernie. I did that and it worked out great, otherwise he 
will continue to subsist on beanieweenies. 

Sleazel

Ps: A shoutout to Texascavers: Has anyone spent any time in Peru? Ann and I are 
going there for seven weeks and would appreciate any leads. I plan to visit 
some karst in the jungle east of the Andes, but also want to spend quality time 
where it is cool and dry. Terry would send me to a salt pan in the high desert 
but I would prefer more conventionally beautiful sights, preferably those with 
at least some vegetation. 

Anyone know anything about Reserva Paisajística Nor Yauyos-Cochas? It is 
beautiful high altitude karst containing the world's highest known surveyed 
cave. I like getting high, but not that high!

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Nancy 
Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 10:59 AM
To: TexasCavers 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Ernie and dead vehicles

thnx

> On Jun 27, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Andy Gluesenkamp  
> wrote:
> 
> If the sedan is a Saturn, it belongs to don Cooper. Also, Terry indicated an 
> interest in the Toyota.  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2018, at 9:15 AM, Nancy Weaver  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m clearing up Ernie Garza’s place and having dead, abandoned vehicles 
>> hauled off.  If you left a 2 door sedan or catamaran in his yard, please 
>> contact me immediately to have it removed or hauled away.
>> 
>> Nancy
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | 
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

[Texascavers] Springtime in the South 2018

[Bruce]

Springtime in the South 2018

 

Fellow explorers: 

 

Tired of Spam? Want to read a real story about caves? 

 

If so, the Weazel invites you to undertake a springtime journey through the
wilds of the deep south. 

 

https://weazelwise.com/2018/06/06/springtime-in-the-south-2018/ 

 

Wherein you will marvel at the beauty of the Cumberland plateau while
visiting waterfalls, cliffs, azure pools, and vast underground voids.
Thereafter we will travel to the Low country of South Carolina to search for
serpents, visit plantations, and learn the age of ancient oaks. Lastly (If I
may use such a clumsy word), we will pay tribute to the passing of a great
man.

 

Have fun!

 

Sleazel

 

PS: Weazelwise website content may not display properly for those using
Internet Explorer as a browser. Please let me know if you experience any
problems.

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Don Broussard

[Bruce]

Allow the Weazel to chime in from the swamp. Once upon a time (94?) after the 
Brackettville convention Dapper Don led a trip to Hoya de Guaguas and El 
Sotano. None of us knew each other, and we were such a fractious crew that we 
would surely have self destructed either by accident or on purpose had he not 
kept such a steady hand on the helm of our enterprise. Disaster was avoided and 
we all had a great time (At least I did!), so here’s to him!

 

Sleazel

 

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Carl Kunath
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 10:55 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Don Broussard

 

I’m on board with this!  Don deserves thanks and a lot of 

 

From: William R. Elliott   

Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:10 PM

To: texascavers@texascavers.com   

Subject: [Texascavers] Thanks to Don Broussard

 

I hope that many on the TexasCavers list will thank Don Broussard here in 
public for his many years of service to caving. Without people like Don several 
long-term projects would not have happened, like the resurvey of  Sótano del 
Venadito, maps of many El Abra caves, aspects of the Huautla Project, and 
others. 

 

Thanks to Bill  Steele and Logan McNatt for recognizing Don here. Don is so 
quiet and modest, he wouldn't brag on himself. 

 

Please join in. Let's hear it for Don!

 

Sincerely,

William R. (Bill) Elliott

​914 Bannister Dr

Jefferson City, MO 65109​

 

speodes...@gmail.com  

573-291-5093 cell

  _  

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com   | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

 


 

 

Virus-free.  

 www.avast.com 

 

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

[Texascavers] Return to Xibalba

[Bruce]

Quibblers rejoice, for the darkness returneth! In Return to Xibalba you will
learn much that you should never know. You will meet dinosaurs, Indians, and
the Dark Lords as you travel to the bowels of the earth. Thereafter you will
visit a 3000 year old city in the jungle filled with Hippies. Best of all,
it is all real!

 

Toward that end please visit www (dot) weazelwise (dot) com (I dare not
provide a direct link for fear of censure by the UnderLords)

 

I implore you to take this journey on a desktop or laptop computer rather
than on your stinking little cell phone lest all my work be in vain. 

 

And a caveat to those who have signed up on Weazelwise.com for automatic
Wordpress email notifications. The formatting is invariably mutilated, so
please view it on your browser.

 

This concludes the Weazel's adventures in the year 2017. 

 

Sleazel

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Bärenschliffe

[Bruce]

When I first visited the wondrous Khao Sok National Park in southern Thailand I 
took a stroll through the jungle to a karst pinnacle where I discovered a cave 
temple that was home to countless "Buddhist" monkeys, which was to say that 
they were extraordinarily well behaved for monkeys. 

I went into the main cave and was astounded to discover that an actual wise man 
wearing golden robes dwelt within. He addressed me in perfect English and said, 
"Welcome to the cave temple. Fell free to look around, dip your feet into the 
sacred pool which cures all ills, or meditate in one of our many hidden 
meditation chambers; however, I must warn you about the giant python that has 
caused great consternation to certain of our guests. She is perfectly harmless 
for she is vegetarian and has been trained in accordance with Buddhist 
principles, but she is very large, about the size of your upper leg and ten 
meters long." 

I didn't believe a word. Vegetarian python? Right! Besides, who would miss a 
mangy dog much less a monkey? So where exactly is this giant python Sir? He 
replied, "At this moment who can say? But she lives in that hole over there on 
the side of the passage". I turned on my light and peered into the hole which 
was about 16" in diameter. To my amazement I could see that the rocks had been 
polished perfectly smooth by the repeated passage of an enormous serpent!

Sleazel

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of 
ralb...@austin.rr.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 12:34 PM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Bärenschliffe

from the document:

_http://geolib.geo.auth.gr/index.php/sasg/article/viewFile/7517/7274

References polished surfaces of rock in caves that have been worn smooth, 
sometimes to a shine, by the repeated passage of cave bears.

My wife suggests similar markings exist where my son and I bump into corners in 
the house, slowly polishing and wearing off the paint on the drywall.

-Robert
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | 
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

[Bruce]

Throughout the world the greatest problem facing mankind (other than 
overpopulation) is adherence to irrational beliefs. We’ve tried reason but 
people are unreasonable. We’ve tried education but people are too stooopid to 
lean anything that contradicts their beliefs. We’ve tried war but all that 
accomplishes is to increase the birthrate of the survivors. Since all else has 
failed; in my opinion, ridicule is the best response to the ridiculous. 

 

SW

 

(Insert cartoon of the Prophet here)

 

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of 
tra...@oztotl.com
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 12:03 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

 

It is a free country yes, true.  This caving forum never ceases to amaze me 
though.  I don’t understand why it seems so fun to make fun of other people’s 
beliefs on this -caving- forum.  To those who don’t believe, these sort of 
gests can be brushed off as mentioned below ‘lighten up’.  But to those who do, 
it is a deep seeded offense that can’t be brushed off.  The people on this 
email thread are you fellow cavers and friends.  I guess it is ok to offend and 
make fun of your friends?  

 

I know, I know. Lighten up its just a joke right?  I know that there are 
several cavers who agree that this is not a joking matter who just choose not 
to get in a flame war over email.  I have no intentions on getting in one 
either.  I just had to ask, one more time, again, for the basics elements of 
respect for your peers..

 

Anyways, this has been a trend for years and frankly, its something I don’t 
need filling my inbox and causing strife on Good Friday.  I’m out y’all, peace…

 

Travis

 

 

 

 

From: Texascavers  > On Behalf Of Michael Gibbons
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:40 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com  
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

 

It ain't religion boss. Haven't been to church in 40 plus years. Its a way of 
life.

Sorry it makes you uncomfortable but it is no reason to chastise David.

For the record it's a free country.

I like David's weird ass outlooks. Face it we're all a half a bubble left of 
plumb. Lighten up a little did the rabbit crap in your Easter egg. 

 

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 9:24 PM JAMES JASEK  > wrote:

CaveTex is a cave related site not a place to discuss religion of politics

JJ

> On Mar 30, 2018, at 9:14 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com 
>  > wrote:
>
> Too set the record straight,  Easter is a pagan event known as Eshtar. 
> Celebration of fertility and all things new that the Spring brings. It was an 
> orgy of decadence and debauchery.
> Many Christian events took the dates of pagan celebrations.
> It is Palm Sunday to the Christian which begins the celebration of the King 
> of man. Passover for His children who have His mark. The deceiver can not 
> harm those who believe upon Him. This speaks of the second death. The death 
> of the soul. Those who believe upon Me shall have everlasting life. This is 
> the promise and the power of Yeshua. He did not cheat death as many think . 
> The death of this body is of no concern, we who hold the Savior in our heart 
> and mind merely vacate this clay pot and return to our spiritual being as did 
> Christ.
> To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
> He so loved His children that He gave His only begotten Son.
> The Passion.
> That is the meaning of this season.
> David, I'm kind of a different preacher. If that rendition of yours is a 
> stepping off point (as I interpreted) I will work with that.
> What I gleaned from your tale was a veiled query into the meaning of the Word.
> It's ok to believe dude, it's ok to tell the story how you understand it.
> It is in bad taste to make a parody of it but it ain't the unpardonable sin. 
> It ain't gonna get you gold trim on your linen gown but it ain't gonna keep 
> out of the here after either.
>
> On Mar 30, 2018 7:18 PM, "Nancy Weaver"   > wrote:
> pretty amusing.  Nancy
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com   | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com   | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

[Bruce]

Hear, hear, Locklear! The way I look at it anybody who crawls out of a cave 
after three days underground is a caver. Tomorrow we will have a grand 
celebration at Weazelworld in honor of that event and also the Weazel's 
impending 70th Bday! The weather is predicted to be glorious, so with any luck 
the prophetic little pocket gopher will poke his head out of the hole, see his 
shadow, then go back underground for the next 2000 years. Oh happy day!

Texican cavers who see this event from a different perspective should consider 
relocating to Florida, for here and only here will you find cavers who open 
grotto meetings with a prayer, thus setting a new depth record!

SW

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of JAMES JASEK
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 10:02 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] This day in speleo-history

Thank you Charlie. David is a Sh*t head for posting this crap on a cave site. I 
had just rejoined Cave Tex and now I am considering dropping off again

JJ

> On Mar 30, 2018, at 7:10 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
> 
> Well David  Locklear that was about as negative a post as I have read. You 
> need to stay clear of religion. That was most insulting to anyone who 
> believes in Christ. If you want to be an atheist then say so but don't try to 
> make fun of other people's faith. It wasn't funny at all, and it made fun of 
> a Christian tradition. Easter is the holiest tradition and most important 
> celebration of Christianity religion. Mr theologist Locklear without the 
> three days there might not be Christianity. 
> 
> It just ,goes to prove a few things about the likes of David Locklear. You 
> are not a theologist in any way means or form. So please just dig a hole and 
> crawl in it or go and hide under a rock. That was out and out shameful.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 2:50 PM, David  wrote:
> Just for fun - please enjoy and don't get your knickers in a wad
> 
> 
> On this day, ( plus or minus a few weeks ) about 1,983 years ago ( 
> plus or minus 200 years )
> 
> An alleged man allegedly named Joseph of Arimathea, went to an alleged 
> shopkeeper and allegedly purchased
> 
> "The Shroud of Turin."
> 
> He allegedly wrapped a dead guy up that he found in the The Shroud of Turin 
> and allegedly placed him in a tiny cave.   ( Allegedly, this tiny cave was 
> just a carved out hole in the rock that Joseph of Arimathea had allegedly 
> made for his own corpse, as he allegedly sensed the banshees were coming for 
> him soon. 
> 
> Then Joseph allegedly disappeared for allegedly 60 hours ( presumably 
> to partake in a ritual, possibly related to Passover or spring harvest 
> related to barley ( a.k.a. beer  ),
> 
> and then Joseph of Arimathea allegedly returned to the alleged cave for some 
> unknown reason and then allegedly found the Shroud of Turin empty with an 
> alleged large blood stain on it exactly matching a photo-copy the alleged 
> dude that he thought he had wrapped in it.
> 
> Then after allegedly stashing away all his fresh barley juice in another 
> secret hole, he then allegedly ran 10 kilometers back to town to wake up the 
> dead man's mom and maybe even the dead man's wife, but they too were also 
> suffering the divine headache related to drinking too much barley juice.
> 
> They all allegedly claimed that never found the dead guy's body, and swore a 
> pact to never tell anyone that they all had had way way too much barley juice 
> that night.
> 
> This all has no relation to the Turing Computer.   That is another holiday.
> 
> Did I leave out anything ?
> 
> David Locklear
> Speleo-theologist
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Charlie Loving
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | 
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Life Members

[Bruce Anderson via Texascavers]

Cavers always welcome.

 

Bruce

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of
Denise P via Texascavers
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 4:40 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: Denise P <pepabe...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Life Members

 

Uh oh, watch out for visitors! My husband Dale is from there and we visit as
often as possible. Glad to be back in touch!

 

Thanks,

Denise

 

  _  

From: Texascavers <texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com
<mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com> > on behalf of Bruce Anderson
via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com
<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:08 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> 
Cc: Bruce Anderson
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Life Members 

 

Bruce & Donna Anderson

21 Hackamore PL

Pagosa Springs, CO  81147

 

970-731-9715

956-330-7544  Bruce Cell

956-607-6901 Donna Cell

 

We retire to Colorado and love it.

 

Now everyone knows,

Bruce

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of
Denise P via Texascavers
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 6:37 AM
To: TexasCavers <texascavers@texascavers.com
<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> >
Cc: Denise P <pepabe...@hotmail.com <mailto:pepabe...@hotmail.com> >
Subject: [Texascavers] TCMA Life Members

 

Hello-The TCMA has outdated contact info for the following life members, so
please contact me off list if you are one of these persons or have pertinent
contact info (email, address, etc.).

 

Donna Anderson

Bruce Anderson

James Reddell

Jacqueline Belwood

Mike Grimm

 

Thanks,
Denise Prendergast

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Life Members

[Bruce Anderson via Texascavers]

Bruce & Donna Anderson

21 Hackamore PL

Pagosa Springs, CO  81147

 

970-731-9715

956-330-7544  Bruce Cell

956-607-6901 Donna Cell

 

We retire to Colorado and love it.

 

Now everyone knows,

Bruce

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of
Denise P via Texascavers
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 6:37 AM
To: TexasCavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Cc: Denise P <pepabe...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Texascavers] TCMA Life Members

 

Hello-The TCMA has outdated contact info for the following life members, so
please contact me off list if you are one of these persons or have pertinent
contact info (email, address, etc.).

 

Donna Anderson

Bruce Anderson

James Reddell

Jacqueline Belwood

Mike Grimm

 

Thanks,
Denise Prendergast

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Any cavers near Mansfield, Texas ??

[Bruce Anderson via Texascavers]

The most economical solution is to rent a tow bar and a pickup at a weekend 
rate.  If you can put the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in park 
it could be towed to Houston without an issue. If the transfer case cannot be 
put in neutral, then disconnect the drive shafts at the differentials and tie 
them up to the bottom of the SUV. Keep the trans in park and tow to Houston. As 
long as the transmission is not turning over there is no issue towing with a 
tow bar. You will also need to have rear lights on the towed SUV. 

If the motor turns over but will not start it seems doubtful that it needs a 
"new motor".  You need to get it to Houston and it checked by someone who knows 
what they are doing. As already pointed out it can be sold as is or parted out. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Missy Singleton via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> We live north of Mansfield off 20 and Bowen.  I am sorry I didn't see your 
> emails when you were passing through last time.
> 
> Missy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 25, 2017, at 12:46 PM, Louise Power via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
>> David,
>> 
>> 
>> Take my initial advice and sell the damned thing. The transfer case alone, 
>> if it's not in too bad shape, should get you most of your money back (at 
>> least it would have in the GOD [good ol' days]). You're right in one thing, 
>> stop letting your possessions possess you.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Texascavers  on behalf of David 
>> via Texascavers 
>> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 8:56 AM
>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>> Cc: David
>> Subject: [Texascavers] Any cavers near Mansfield, Texas ??
>>  
>> I must force myself to take an internet hiatus and focus
>> on getting out of a giant pickle jar.
>> 
>> Currently, the situation is somewhat like Humpty Dumpty,
>> except there are not yet any king's men, or any king's horses.
>> 
>> Here is my latest Craigslist ad:
>> 
>>   https://houston.craigslist.org/com/6192188142.html
>> I need a large SUV towed and stored
>> houston.craigslist.org
>> My SUV is in a mechanic shop in Mansfield on F.M. 157. I can not afford to 
>> replace the motor. The mechanic needs the vehicle removed immediately. I 
>> need to store it somewhere near Mansfield for 3...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please email me privately, if you want to hear about lots of bizarre drama 
>> that 
>> is about to unfold.The next few weeks will certainly involve 
>> hitch-hiking, 
>> sleeping in my hot rental storage unit, giving up Wendy's chocolate Frosties 
>> for about 3 years, and other non-essential things to survive.
>> 
>> I have been here before.   It is all deja vu. 
>> 
>> It is just that this time, I have a car-note on a car that does not run, and 
>> a kid, and a 
>> mortgage for a house that I do not live in, and I was in good health during 
>> the last
>> pickle-episode.You may think that all sounds sad.I am doing far 
>> better than those 
>> landslide victims in Xinmo, or the family that went swimming in Lake Temple, 
>> or the 
>> homeless people from Grenfell Tower in London, etc.
>> 
>> There is an old wise expression. 
>> 
>>   "Do not let your possessions possess you." 
>>   
>> I believe that.However, that guy didn't owe money to people for those
>> possessions, or rely on those possesions to get to work.
>> 
>> David Locklear
>> 281-995-8487 ( text okay )
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] From bad to worse

[Bruce Anderson via Texascavers]

No that was "Father knows Best". Your thinking of "Animal House". 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 2:01 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Wasn't 'David Knows Best' a teevee show?
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Fritz Holt via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> David,
>> What you should have done is stayed home and taken care of business as your 
>> beer budget would have allowed. But then, David knows best.
>> Such hindsight I have. Fritz
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:34 PM, David via Texascavers 
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > I spent the entire day with a roadside mobile-mechanic futily attempting 
>> > to get back on the road.
>> >
>> > I abandoned the Sequoia at the Chevron station, and called my 
>> > estranged-brother-in-law ( my half-sister's husband ) to come rescue me.  
>> > That was a low-point in my life.
>> >
>> > A wrecker service is supposed to take the Sequoia to a shop in the town of 
>> > Mansfield, where it may need expensive repairs.
>> >
>> > I am at my half-sister's house now, in Mansfield quite bummed out and 
>> > concerned about my immediate future.
>> >
>> > Meanwhile, drama is going on down in Houston that I should have been there 
>> > to deal with.
>> >
>> > At this point, I am past the limit of exhaustion to deal with it all.
>> >
>> > I should have gone and sat in front of a waterfall like my 6th Sense told 
>> > me to do.
>> >
>> > I must find a ride to Houston.   I may have to take a bus.
>> >
>> > David Locklear
>> > <20170621_194323_HDR.jpg>
>> > ___
>> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Facebook related

[Bruce Anderson]

So

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Bob Oakley <a452...@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> couldn't be boystown. they will not let him in
> 
> 
> 
> From: Texascavers <texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com> on behalf of Bruce 
> Anderson <brewsky...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 3:50 PM
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Facebook related
>  
> Is that in boys town?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Bockbeer in Acuna with some strange people.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:39 PM, David <dlocklea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Way back around 2009 ( I think ) I was trying to encourage cavers to use 
>>> Facebook.I think I even posted once on CaveTex about it.At first, 
>>> it was met with lots of resistance.
>>> 
>>> Flash forward 7 years,
>>> 
>>> I was hired this week and paid respectably by an attorney to excavate 
>>> Facebook to dig up dirty laundry on his client's accuser.That person 
>>> had posted a harmless joke on a public forum, but it may be just barely 
>>> enough to convince a jury that the defendant can not be proven guilty. 
>>> 
>>> I am just saying that this is probably happening every day, so be very 
>>> careful about what you post on the internet.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Charlie Loving
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Facebook related

[Bruce Anderson]

Is that in boys town?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
> 
> Bockbeer in Acuna with some strange people.
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:39 PM, David  wrote:
>> Way back around 2009 ( I think ) I was trying to encourage cavers to use 
>> Facebook.I think I even posted once on CaveTex about it.At first, it 
>> was met with lots of resistance.
>> 
>> Flash forward 7 years,
>> 
>> I was hired this week and paid respectably by an attorney to excavate 
>> Facebook to dig up dirty laundry on his client's accuser.That person had 
>> posted a harmless joke on a public forum, but it may be just barely enough 
>> to convince a jury that the defendant can not be proven guilty. 
>> 
>> I am just saying that this is probably happening every day, so be very 
>> careful about what you post on the internet.
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] [TCR Food]

[Bruce Anderson via Texascavers]

Although I was not one of the original cooks it seems a friend by the name of 
Charlie got me involved and I cooked the corn for a number of years. 

As Charlie points out we got old although not as old as some. Cooking is hard 
work and back then we did it because we liked to cook. 

The thing is we would cook all day Saturday and then come Sunday there would be 
a huge mess to clean up with very little help. 

I've always observed that those who complained the most did little or no work 
and would show up with no food expecting to get feed all weekend. 

The thing is we have moved out of Texas to the mountains of Colorado so we will 
not be going to OTR (ya I know it now called something else). 

My suggestion is to figure out what was allocated in the fee for Saturday 
dinner. Find out what it is going to cost to have BarBQue catered. Deduct the 
old cost bump it up 15 - 20% to be sure there is enough food. 

Anyone complaint tell them it's they and those like them who never help.

Bruce

Charlie, party on...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 10, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> 
> Cooking is work. And I think that became obvious to our last head cook and 
> there is little in the way of recompense other than a pat on the back. That 
> only works for so long. And like I have said I was head cook for many years 
> and retired. Felicia Vreeland was my second in command and ran a very tight 
> ship. The whole idea started moons ago when we decided to have a caver cook 
> off at a ranch in Wimberly where the old UT Grotto guys showed up. I know It 
> isn't a Grotto. There were about 20 guys there and they all cooked what they 
> wanted to and enough to feed the crowd. We even had stuffed jelly fish, which 
> won first prize. It was pretty much fun. Lots of food and lots of BS. The 
> next was a real OTR and I know I call it by the wrong name. That was 
> Luckenbach the first OTR and there were maybe a dozen cooks. After that the 
> group got bigger because there was some competition as to how eclectic we 
> could get in our menu. Most everyone prepared 20 pounds of something. That 
> kept up for at least 20 years. And as time passed some of the cooks actually 
> died. Some got too old to cook and other just moved away. The core held on 
> for awhile and then they decided to pass the baton. Twentyfive years without 
> many new volunteers was not inspiring.
> 
> I have done a few events since then with catering. I always used someone I 
> knew really well to cater. I grew up with Jim Mosley and his brother in law 
> and ate at their house and remember the Dellwood Cafeteria with Jimmy's ice 
> sculptures. Long gone and long ago. His son did the HEB Thanksgiving feeds in 
> SA and was excellent. He did a couple of weddings for me and they were great. 
> Lots of food and variety. But I lost contact with them and all their eating 
> places have closed. But I am sure someone knows a good caterer who would 
> understand the drill. You give them a menu and they prepare it. I always 
> think three meats and as many salad and veggies as possible and perhaps the 
> cavers make the deserts? This is just an idea. BBQ works as well as Mexican 
> food. There are some great BBQ places in and around Fredicksburg and San 
> Antonio is a bastion of Mexican food. Ed Alexander once upon a time catered 
> Luckenbach with enchiladas in 1970. But he is gone now to the cave in the sky.
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
>> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>> Currently TCR doesn't have a head cook, or menu. There have been complaints, 
>> rumors and talk about this subject. It seems there are three options: (a) 
>> fend for yourselves, (b) caterer, (c) volunteers come forward to cook.
>> Each has its benefit and drawbacks. I need to get a feel for options.
>> 
>> Discuss:
>> 
>> 
>> --Tex Caver
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --Don
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] 39th Annual Texas Cavers Reunion

[Bruce Anderson via Texascavers]

Well said Charlie!!

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Charles Loving via Texascavers
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 5:02 PM
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 39th Annual Texas Cavers Reunion

 

Why are we stuck at Paradise Canyon? The OTR used to be fun when it moved 
around. Now it is in a rut. Paradise Canyon is OK but to me it is incredibly 
boring after the tenth time. I recall the first one where I and a few other 
cooked at Luckenbach. Then a lot of places all over Central Texas. Now it is 
stuck, dead in the water.

 

OK I was chief cook for 20 years and has a myriad of volunteer  people  who 
were involved in cooking. We had a rule for our volunteer cooks and there were 
about 35  or 40 of them. The rule was cook what you want but cook, but enough. 
Enough was a nebulous figure. We had tons of corn on the cob from the valley. 
Fish from Galveston, A roast pig, brisket, beef clod, chicken, turkey, hot 
links from Fredericksburg, bean salad, fruit salad, salad salad, black beans, 
refried beans, tortillas, pie, cake, cookies, a million brownies, chicken, 
Hatch chilis, gazpacho. all manner of stuff, we once had quail, and the people 
gobbled it up. 

 

All prepared by THE CAVER COOKS for the fun of cooking it. That tradition has 
died it would seem. Maybe caver don't cook anymore? Not sure why but the old 
cooks never got any new cooks to volunteer to take the reins. 

 

Maybe there was a great loss in cooking ability. I hate to say this but I 
haven't eaten the meal at OTR is four years. I am not sure why because I pay 
for it, but the last one just didn't meet my expectations. I apologize to those 
who worked so hard and long but what is, is and I am a dyed in the wool food 
Nazi. We didn't need a food trailer to cook in we just built fires and got 
after it.

 

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
 > wrote:

Paradise Canyon
October 12-15, 2017


--Texas Caver
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com   | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers





 

-- 

Charlie Loving

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Grutas del Carrizal

[Bruce Anderson via Texascavers]

Donna and I went into Cueva de Carizal years ago I think in the early 80’s.  We 
both wore respirators and did not get sick and we were in the stream and upper 
passages.  Later we were both tested and showed a resistance to histo.  But 
again we had been in many bat caves.  Since that time there have been numerous 
cases of cavers getting sick after visiting this cave.

 

Bruce

 

From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Nico Escamilla via Texascavers
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:50 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Grutas del Carrizal

 

just a few months ago a boy scout troop visited the cave and many kids got 
histo.. 

 

El ago. 31, 2016 3:16 PM, "Gill Ediger via Texascavers" 
<texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> > escribió:

Moni--I would suggest that you not visit Cueva de Carrizal and not take or send 
anyone else there. There have been sufficient incidents  of people getting 
histoplasmosis to warn them there is a danger of contacting a lung fungus. Only 
people with a known or demonstrated resistance to histo should visit that cave. 

--Ediger

 

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 1:31 AM, Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología 
AC. via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com 
<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> > wrote:

 

thank you Bill, is a wonderful information... but is all the investigation the 
cavers did in this cave, no more a recently years?

 

Moni

 

2016-08-26 20:13 GMT-05:00 Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> >:

Moni -- Map of Grutta de Carrizal is at
http://www.mexicancaves.org/ maps/1825.pdf 
<http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/1825.pdf> 

Original description of the cave is in AMCS bulletin 1
http://www.mexicancaves.org/ bul/bul1.pdf 
<http://www.mexicancaves.org/bul/bul1.pdf>  (~100 MB)

There is a long article on drowning accident in Carrizal in old AMCS Newsletter 
vol 3 #4, at
http://www.mexicancaves.org/ nl/AMCS_NL_V3.pdf 
<http://www.mexicancaves.org/nl/AMCS_NL_V3.pdf> 

--Mixon
-- --
Always forgive your enemies after they are hanged.
-- --
You may "reply" to the address this message
(unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu <mailto:bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu> 
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org <mailto:a...@mexicancaves.org>  or 
sa...@mexicancaves.org <mailto:sa...@mexicancaves.org> 

__ _
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com <http://texascavers.com/> 
Texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com>  | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/ texascavers@texascavers.com/ 
<http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/> 
http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers 
<http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers> 





 

-- 

LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ

Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS

Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS

Directora de MP- Mex Caving 

Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora)

Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia)

Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia)

Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora)

Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora  (Asesora)

Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora)

Texas Speleological Association (Socia)

Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia)

 



 



 

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com <http://texascavers.com/> 
Texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com>  | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

 


___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com>  | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: Re: [Texascavers] Monterrey safety update

[Bruce Anderson]

It has been a known fact for some time, here along the border, that Monterrey 
isnow controlled by the narcos.  There are actually three cartels, Gulf 
Cartel, Zetas, Pactic Cartel.  Throw in the Mexican Army and the Mexican Navy 
(Marines) and you have a five way mix.  The cartels are actually out manuvering 
the Mexican miliatry.  The mexican miliatry has just been effective enough to 
disrupt things so that now you have the robberies, protection and other crap.  

Now the people in Monterrey with means no longer drive from Monterrey to the 
valley to shop but rather they hire private iarcraft to fly to them to the 
valley.  If driving to Monterry from here, it is best to convoy during the day 
only, even if using the auot pista.  Along the border no one goes into Mexcio 
at night if it all.  The good restuarants are now moving from Mexico to the US 
side.

As Gill says it will be interesting although if a revolution were to occur now 
the Naros would probably win.  Thye have too much money.

Bruce
  - Original Message - 
  From: tbsam...@verizon.net 
  To: gi...@att.net ; texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:10 AM
  Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] Monterrey safety update


   for years, the Mexican constabulary/bureaucracy has been underpaid and 
individuals try to improve their financial status  via versions of the mordida. 


  Feb 5, 2011 09:32:56 PM, gi...@att.net wrote:

What has happened, David, is that 3 factions (drug cartels, political
parties, independent bandits) have all been putting pressure on the
police  local governments to the point that the police are totally
ineffective and, perhaps, in cahoots with any and/or all of them. It
results in general lawlessness and promotes and encourages robberies
by bands of free-lance bandits--on all levels. What you have is chaos
and confusion as to what's really going on, where, when, why, and by
whom. The solution, when it comes, and the getting to it, is gonna be
interesting. And don't forget: Every 100 years there is a revolution
in Mexico.
--Ediger


On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 5:55 PM, David wrote:
 The U.S. State Department released this statement yesterday:

 Recently, Monterrey has seen a significant increase of armed
 robberies in restaurants, coffee shops and
 convenience stores.  The robberies follow a similar modus operandi: a
 small group of armed individuals enter
 their target location, guard the doors and take purses, wallets,
 phones and other valuables from the patrons
 inside.  None of these robberies have resulted in violence or kidnapping.


 I saw somewhere else that they ordered their embassy and consulate
 staff to not be on the road at night
 around Monterrey, but haven't found confirmation of that.


 Anybody have any theories about how things got like this?I lived
 in Monterrey briefly during the summers
 of 1987 and 1988, and did all kinds of stuff at night, and I never
 felt or sensed danger.It seems to me these
 guys see expensive things they want, and they see that they can never
 have those things while working
 the kinds of  jobs their parents worked.




 Not related below, but worth mentioning,

 The U.S. gov't recently posted to be careful around water at 2
 particular hotels in Cozumel,
 as there have been cases of Legionnaries disease, suggesting it is in
 the jacuzzi's or the bath water, or
 swimming pool.

 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


  - Visit 
our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com 

Re: [Texascavers] 52 Ways to Die in a Cave

[Bruce Anderson]

#58   Getting flat rocked by someone in the group.
- Original Message - 
From: Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu

To: Allan B. Cobb a...@oztotl.com
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 52 Ways to Die in a Cave



How about

57. Getting Puppied at the shaft entrance of Honey Creek.

Diana

On May 25, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Allan B. Cobb wrote:


The 52 Ways list is here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/31358060/52-Ways-to-Die-in-a-Cave


I can think of many more ways.  Caving here in Belize I can add:

53.  Getting eaten by a jaguar
54. Being ripped apart by a gibnut (or tepescuintle) in a crawlway
55. Interupting looters while they are looting Maya artifacts

(I've been close to these.)

There are other ways too.

56. Being blugeoned to death by your fellow cavers with rappel  
racks.  (I've contemplated that a few times.)


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2895 - Release Date:  
05/25/10 06:26:00

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B 
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. 
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu

214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

[Bruce Anderson]

I live in McAllen and our house sits about 14 miles from Mexico.  I still do a 
lot of business in Mexico on a regular basis.  With all of this said the only 
border town that I have been comfortable in the past year was Mexicali.  Of 
course now they have had an earthquake.  I have been through several minor ones 
there.  Actually friends of mine tell me that the damage was not that severe.

Anyhow back to the point, things have deteriorated badly in the Texas valley 
along the border.  If you come across any of the Narcos, you can figure that 
they are probably better armed than you are going to be.  That said, I do carry 
as I have decided I will not go down without a fight.  Obviously while in 
Mexico I would not be carrying anything unless you want to see the inside of a 
Mexican jail.  Not pretty..  In the past week there have been about 30 
killed along the Rio Grand Valley border.  While most were involved in the drug 
business not all were.  There were a couple of kids killed over by Falcon Lake 
caught in the cross fire.

The problem is that bullets just fly.  If you get caught in the cross fire or 
are behind the line of fire, you are in real danger.  If you are driving a Ford 
F-250 or a Suburban, you are in real danger as they are the Narcos favorite 
vehicles.  For about 5 or 6 weeks now every night on the local news there is 
something about killings, kidnapping or theft that has to do with the border 
drug business.  Tell anyone around here that there is not yet spill over into 
the US and they will know that you are full of it.  

My mode of operation is to always be fully aware of my surroundings whether in 
Mexico or the US.  In the US, I am always armed either on my person or in my 
truck.  Driving in and out of the valley is also a concern.  As long as you are 
moving it is no problem.  If you have car trouble you are SOL between the 
border and George West.  There is plenty of drugs and people movement through 
this area.

I guess there are some in our community that feel guns are not necessary.  They 
probably are not if you never come across a problem.  I just do not feel that I 
am going down without a fight.  Rest assured if you come across some of the 
Naros on this side of the border you are in serious trouble and are in great 
jeopardy of being killed.  They just do not care.

Bruce 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Fritz Holt 
  To: 'Rod Goke' ; 'a...@gluesenkamp.com' ; 'Geary Schindel' ; 
Texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Cc: 'Don Arburn' 
  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:47 AM
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel


   

  Rod, 

   

  Good perspective. If armed, the key is being responsible and competent in the 
use of the firearm. Depending on the circumstances, you can't win them all but 
you may save the life of others as well as your own. I have had a CHL from the 
beginning but never carry. Living in Houston, I probably should. Deranged perps 
seem to like groups of potential victims.  

   

  Geezer

   


--

  From: Rod Goke [mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net] 
  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:58 AM
  To: Fritz Holt; 'a...@gluesenkamp.com'; 'Geary Schindel'; 
Texascavers@texascavers.com
  Cc: 'Don Arburn'
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

   

  In my experience, old farts and geezers with shooting skills often remain 
competent as marksmen long after their running abilities have diminished. 
Running only works when you're faster and more agile than the predators, 
otherwise it makes you look like tempting prey. Ever try running from a hostile 
dog? If so, you probably have bite marks to show for it.

   

  Even when a predator is confident that he could defeat you in a fight, he may 
be deterred from attacking by the thought that doing so would cost him more 
than he would gain. For a predator you cannot confidently outrun, the most 
effective defense usually is to appear nonaggressive enough to avoid provoking 
or cornering the predator, but to appear confident and capable of making any 
attacker pay a high price. Your chances of maintaining that kind of confidence 
and appearance are better when you have the means and the will to back it up.

   

  From all the reports I've read thus far, the Zetas are not motivated by 
religion or ideology to sacrifice themselves in suicide attacks. Instead, they 
are ruthless predatory criminals motivated by short term personal gain. They 
are willing to expose themselves to great risk and to show no mercy towards 
their victims, but only when they perceive that it's in their interest to do so.

   

  The safest, but most limiting, option, of course, is to avoid going anywhere 
with significant risk (like Andy's suggestion to cave in Canada :) ). In 
principle, the risk of criminal attack is like the numerous other risk we have 
to consider when planning caving trips and other activities. Sometimes we 
cancel

Re: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

[Bruce Anderson]

Mark,

Yesterday two men tried to hyjack a Ford F-250 from a couple of snowbirds.  
They were not successful but the couple was pretty shookup.  One of the 
hyjackers actually was in the cab.

In December there was a shoot out on the southside of Progresso.  that is the 
only trouble that I have heard of in Progresso but keep in mind its proximity 
to Rio Bravo which is a Zeta hang out.

Bruce
  - Original Message - 
  From: mark.al...@l-3com.com 
  To: Bruce Anderson 
  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:07 PM
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel


  Hi, Bruce!

   

   

  My in-laws live in Weslaco and used to go into Mexico at Progresso.

   

  Have you heard of any trouble or incidents near their area?

   

   

  Thanks,

   

  Mark

   

   

   

  From: Bruce Anderson [mailto:brewskyj...@rgv.rr.com] 
  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:31 AM
  To: Fritz Holt; 'Rod Goke'; a...@gluesenkamp.com; 'Geary Schindel'; 
Texascavers@texascavers.com
  Cc: 'Don Arburn'
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

   

  I live in McAllen and our house sits about 14 miles from Mexico.  I still do 
a lot of business in Mexico on a regular basis.  With all of this said the only 
border town that I have been comfortable in the past year was Mexicali.  Of 
course now they have had an earthquake.  I have been through several minor ones 
there.  Actually friends of mine tell me that the damage was not that severe.

   

  Anyhow back to the point, things have deteriorated badly in the Texas valley 
along the border.  If you come across any of the Narcos, you can figure that 
they are probably better armed than you are going to be.  That said, I do carry 
as I have decided I will not go down without a fight.  Obviously while in 
Mexico I would not be carrying anything unless you want to see the inside of a 
Mexican jail.  Not pretty..  In the past week there have been about 30 
killed along the Rio Grand Valley border.  While most were involved in the drug 
business not all were.  There were a couple of kids killed over by Falcon Lake 
caught in the cross fire.

   

  The problem is that bullets just fly.  If you get caught in the cross fire or 
are behind the line of fire, you are in real danger.  If you are driving a Ford 
F-250 or a Suburban, you are in real danger as they are the Narcos favorite 
vehicles.  For about 5 or 6 weeks now every night on the local news there is 
something about killings, kidnapping or theft that has to do with the border 
drug business.  Tell anyone around here that there is not yet spill over into 
the US and they will know that you are full of it.  

   

  My mode of operation is to always be fully aware of my surroundings whether 
in Mexico or the US.  In the US, I am always armed either on my person or in my 
truck.  Driving in and out of the valley is also a concern.  As long as you are 
moving it is no problem.  If you have car trouble you are SOL between the 
border and George West.  There is plenty of drugs and people movement through 
this area.

   

  I guess there are some in our community that feel guns are not necessary.  
They probably are not if you never come across a problem.  I just do not feel 
that I am going down without a fight.  Rest assured if you come across some of 
the Naros on this side of the border you are in serious trouble and are in 
great jeopardy of being killed.  They just do not care.

   

  Bruce 

- Original Message - 

From: Fritz Holt 

To: 'Rod Goke' ; 'a...@gluesenkamp.com' ; 'Geary Schindel' ; 
Texascavers@texascavers.com 

Cc: 'Don Arburn' 

Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:47 AM

Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

 

 

Rod, 

 

Good perspective. If armed, the key is being responsible and competent in 
the use of the firearm. Depending on the circumstances, you can't win them all 
but you may save the life of others as well as your own. I have had a CHL from 
the beginning but never carry. Living in Houston, I probably should. Deranged 
perps seem to like groups of potential victims.  

 

Geezer

 




From: Rod Goke [mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:58 AM
To: Fritz Holt; 'a...@gluesenkamp.com'; 'Geary Schindel'; 
Texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: 'Don Arburn'
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

 

In my experience, old farts and geezers with shooting skills often 
remain competent as marksmen long after their running abilities have 
diminished. Running only works when you're faster and more agile than the 
predators, otherwise it makes you look like tempting prey. Ever try running 
from a hostile dog? If so, you probably have bite marks to show for it.

 

Even when a predator is confident that he could defeat you in a fight, he 
may be deterred from attacking by the thought

Re: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

[Bruce Anderson]

There is a new tactic being used by the narcos.  Now if you come across a road 
block it could be either the military or the narcos.  The narcos have started 
putting up road blocks to protect their activates.  Thus if you come upon a 
road block and it is one of the naros you could be in jeopardy of getting 
caught in a shoot out.  They have used this tactic at numerous points at once 
across from the valley and this has also been utilized in Monterrey.

Thus if you hit a road block with a big backup or do not see soldiers my advice 
would be to turn around and get out of there ASAP.

Bruce
  - Original Message - 
  From: Fritz Holt 
  To: 'Rod Goke' ; 'a...@gluesenkamp.com' ; 'Geary Schindel' ; 
Texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Cc: 'Don Arburn' 
  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:47 AM
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel


   

  Rod, 

   

  Good perspective. If armed, the key is being responsible and competent in the 
use of the firearm. Depending on the circumstances, you can't win them all but 
you may save the life of others as well as your own. I have had a CHL from the 
beginning but never carry. Living in Houston, I probably should. Deranged perps 
seem to like groups of potential victims.  

   

  Geezer

   


--

  From: Rod Goke [mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net] 
  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:58 AM
  To: Fritz Holt; 'a...@gluesenkamp.com'; 'Geary Schindel'; 
Texascavers@texascavers.com
  Cc: 'Don Arburn'
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

   

  In my experience, old farts and geezers with shooting skills often remain 
competent as marksmen long after their running abilities have diminished. 
Running only works when you're faster and more agile than the predators, 
otherwise it makes you look like tempting prey. Ever try running from a hostile 
dog? If so, you probably have bite marks to show for it.

   

  Even when a predator is confident that he could defeat you in a fight, he may 
be deterred from attacking by the thought that doing so would cost him more 
than he would gain. For a predator you cannot confidently outrun, the most 
effective defense usually is to appear nonaggressive enough to avoid provoking 
or cornering the predator, but to appear confident and capable of making any 
attacker pay a high price. Your chances of maintaining that kind of confidence 
and appearance are better when you have the means and the will to back it up.

   

  From all the reports I've read thus far, the Zetas are not motivated by 
religion or ideology to sacrifice themselves in suicide attacks. Instead, they 
are ruthless predatory criminals motivated by short term personal gain. They 
are willing to expose themselves to great risk and to show no mercy towards 
their victims, but only when they perceive that it's in their interest to do so.

   

  The safest, but most limiting, option, of course, is to avoid going anywhere 
with significant risk (like Andy's suggestion to cave in Canada :) ). In 
principle, the risk of criminal attack is like the numerous other risk we have 
to consider when planning caving trips and other activities. Sometimes we 
cancel or postpone trips when risks are considered excessive. When we do decide 
to go ahead with trips, we try to consider what can go wrong and to prepare 
appropriately. Fritz's suggestion about being armed when traveling in certain 
parts of Texas near the border is something worthy of serious consideration, 
especially if Geary Schindel's April 6 report is accurate about Zetas crossing 
the border not just for robbery, but to capture Americans for public torture 
and killing. Going armed is not something to take lightly, but neither are the 
alternatives. It's a subject that deserves the same careful consideration we 
give to other types of potential emergencies that can occur during caving trips.

   

  Rod

  -Original Message- 
  From: Fritz Holt 
  Sent: Apr 6, 2010 12:01 PM 
  To: 'a...@gluesenkamp.com' , 'Geary Schindel' , 
Texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Cc: 'Don Arburn' 
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel 




  Well, I have had my three score and ten plus five but want a few more. If I 
see them coming first, maybe I can hide in the bushes and hope I don't fart 
until they're gone. That would be a preview of things to come. What is the old 
deer/elk hunters line? I thought I heard an old bull snort.

   

  F.

   


--

  From: Andy Gluesenkamp [mailto:andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com] 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 11:47 AM
  To: 'Geary Schindel'; Texascavers@texascavers.com; Fritz Holt
  Cc: 'Don Arburn'
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Mexican Travel

   

Uhm, Fritz?  If you encounter Zetas, RUN.  They are better armed than 
all of us combined.  Just remember those dove hunters who got hassled last 
year.  They all had

Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border

[Bruce Anderson]

I actually live in deep south Texas in McAllen.  I was in Juarez the first of 
the month and I can tell you that it is just as bad here as there only they 
keep it quiet around here.  The problem is that you need to be very aware of 
your surroundings.  Bullets do not care what is in their path.  The US 
officials were on high alert down here twice last week with swat teams at the 
crossings because they thought it might spill over into the US.

I am in and out Mexico doing business very frequently and all I can say is be 
very aware of your surroundings and be careful where you go.  You may still get 
caught in the cross fire.  There have been two gun fights one in Matamoros and 
one in Reynosa in the shopping malls in the past week.

As far as the Mexican officials are concerned, I have learned how to pay the 
bribe game and never had and major problems other than spending time and bribe 
money getting it done.  I can tell you this.  I do not mind the drive out of 
south Texas but it would be very scary having a breakdown between McAllen and 
George West in the middle of no where.  There are narcos (drug runners) and 
coyotes (people runners all through that region.  I am not saying whether I 
carry or not but I will say I will defend myself.

Bruce
  - Original Message - 
  From: Geary Schindel 
  To: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:26 AM
  Subject: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border


  This is in response to the new posting on travel to Mexico.  This is from my 
caver friend that works in the Office of Homeland Security here in San Antonio. 
 He is also on Texas Cavers list but prefers to keep a low profile.  Something 
to think about.

  Geary

   

  Hi Geary!

  They said they were going to renew that.  I am glad they did.  Some of the 
areas are very dangerous right now.  Folks just need to be aware of the threat 
and that things can turn sour very quickly.  Bullets are not picky who they hit 
during a gunfight.

  There has also been an increase in drug trafficking from Big Bend NP to 
Maverick County along the Texas border in the US.  In the last six months there 
has been at least two LARGE shipments picked up in Big Bend NP itself.  It is 
Very similar to what they are doing out in Organ Pipe National Park.  These are 
not the normal wetback with drugs scenario.  These are well armed individuals 
dressed in black or camouflage carrying fairly large amounts of contraband.  
They usually travel at night and have normally a number of set pick up points 
which they rotate around.  Cell phones are such a help to all.  They will avoid 
contact if possible but if cornered have been know to fight.  Normally if they 
are pressed hard they will drop there cargo and disappear but like stated 
before, they will fight if cornered and usually are quite ready to do that.  
They don't play by the same rules that we do.

  There has also been an increase in human trafficking (two or three young 
women from Mexico/Central America being sold in slavery or prostitution)  These 
are not so heavily armed but the handlers have been aggressive in the last 
couple months.  If confronted they will run and leave there cargo (the women) 
but there has been several incidences of ranchers and hunters being jumped at 
gates and such as the handlers were trying to steal the vehicle.  Packing a 
handgun seems to be a quick cure as they know most ranchers and hunters will 
use them if they can.  Just tell the guys to be careful going through gates to 
the caves late at night or early in the morning.  The buddy system works and 
safety in numbers is a good thing.  Two or more people they will evade and 
avoid.  They have been breaking into vehicles at night as well along the border.

  This time of year seems to be the time that this increases as the weather is 
more temperate and they can move large groups at night quite easily.  Hope this 
helps some.  Just thought you would want to know and maybe pass this on.  

  From your local Department of Homeland Security Friend!  :)  Take care Bro!

Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border

[Bruce Anderson]

Yes you did.  thanks again.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Don Arburn 
  Cc: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border


  Didn't I tow you and your truck to Bustamante from Minas Viejas once?


  All I can say is, the Federales have some cool 4x4 caving vehicles with 
propellers and turrets at the borders. There, caving related and on topic. 




  Don's iPhone.

  On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Bruce Anderson brewskyj...@rgv.rr.com wrote:


I actually live in deep south Texas in McAllen.  I was in Juarez the first 
of the month and I can tell you that it is just as bad here as there only they 
keep it quiet around here.  The problem is that you need to be very aware of 
your surroundings.  Bullets do not care what is in their path.  The US 
officials were on high alert down here twice last week with swat teams at the 
crossings because they thought it might spill over into the US.

I am in and out Mexico doing business very frequently and all I can say is 
be very aware of your surroundings and be careful where you go.  You may still 
get caught in the cross fire.  There have been two gun fights one in Matamoros 
and one in Reynosa in the shopping malls in the past week.

As far as the Mexican officials are concerned, I have learned how to pay 
the bribe game and never had and major problems other than spending time and 
bribe money getting it done.  I can tell you this.  I do not mind the drive out 
of south Texas but it would be very scary having a breakdown between McAllen 
and George West in the middle of no where.  There are narcos (drug runners) and 
coyotes (people runners all through that region.  I am not saying whether I 
carry or not but I will say I will defend myself.

Bruce
  - Original Message - 
  From: Geary Schindel 
  To: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:26 AM
  Subject: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border


  This is in response to the new posting on travel to Mexico.  This is from 
my caver friend that works in the Office of Homeland Security here in San 
Antonio.  He is also on Texas Cavers list but prefers to keep a low profile.  
Something to think about.

  Geary



  Hi Geary!

  They said they were going to renew that.  I am glad they did.  Some of 
the areas are very dangerous right now.  Folks just need to be aware of the 
threat and that things can turn sour very quickly.  Bullets are not picky who 
they hit during a gunfight.

  There has also been an increase in drug trafficking from Big Bend NP to 
Maverick County along the Texas border in the US.  In the last six months there 
has been at least two LARGE shipments picked up in Big Bend NP itself.  It is 
Very similar to what they are doing out in Organ Pipe National Park.  These are 
not the normal wetback with drugs scenario.  These are well armed individuals 
dressed in black or camouflage carrying fairly large amounts of contraband.  
They usually travel at night and have normally a number of set pick up points 
which they rotate around.  Cell phones are such a help to all.  They will avoid 
contact if possible but if cornered have been know to fight.  Normally if they 
are pressed hard they will drop there cargo and disappear but like stated 
before, they will fight if cornered and usually are quite ready to do that.  
They don't play by the same rules that we do.

  There has also been an increase in human trafficking (two or three young 
women from Mexico/Central America being sold in slavery or prostitution)  These 
are not so heavily armed but the handlers have been aggressive in the last 
couple months.  If confronted they will run and leave there cargo (the women) 
but there has been several incidences of ranchers and hunters being jumped at 
gates and such as the handlers were trying to steal the vehicle.  Packing a 
handgun seems to be a quick cure as they know most ranchers and hunters will 
use them if they can.  Just tell the guys to be careful going through gates to 
the caves late at night or early in the morning.  The buddy system works and 
safety in numbers is a good thing.  Two or more people they will evade and 
avoid.  They have been breaking into vehicles at night as well along the border.

  This time of year seems to be the time that this increases as the weather 
is more temperate and they can move large groups at night quite easily.  Hope 
this helps some.  Just thought you would want to know and maybe pass this on.  

  From your local Department of Homeland Security Friend!  :)  Take care 
Bro!

CaveTex: Petzl Bolting Kit for sale

[Bruce Johnson]

This Petzl Bolting Kit is up for grabs. It's made for caving, and 
contains all tools, bolts and hangers as a brand new kit. Anyone wish to 
make an offer, or will it go on Ebay?


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1049667/petzl001.jpg

Be sure to view both images by clicking NEXT IMAGE. This kit was 
bought for a job last year that never got done, so it was never used. 
Best offer before 9:00 PM tomorrow (August 16) takes it. If you need to 
have it delivered, I will deliver as preferred or as cheaply as 
possible. If you live in the Austin - San Antonio corridor, let me know 
and I'll try to arrange to get it to you though mutual contacts, if 
possible. If I don't receive any acceptable offers, it'll be on ebay by 
Wednesday night.

Please respond off list!!!
Bruce
PS: It cost me over $150 new, plus shipping.

CaveTex: OOPS! Bolting kit photos

[Bruce Johnson]

Okay, that didn't work exactly like I thought it would. Here's the
second photo of the bolting kit I have for sale:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1049667/petzl002.jpg

Bruce

To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net
with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex.  For help and
information go to www.cavetex.net.
List administrator:  mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net

Re: CaveTex: Re: Texas to Soon Have Country's Highest Speed Limit

[Bruce Johnson]

Hawai'i, as we all know (or certainly should know) is an island 
archipelago. There are no bridges between these island, much less a 
bridge to another state. So, why do they even have a road designated as 
an Interstate?


Bruce

Mark Minton wrote:

A list of speed limits by state is at 
http://www.iihs.org/safety_facts/state_laws/speed_limit_laws.htm, 
current as of May, 2005.  No state had a speed limit higher than 75 at 
that time.  Oklahoma was the speediest, with 70+ mph across the 
board.  Hawaii was the slowest (only 60 on the Interstate!?).  As I 
recall, when I was a kid the speed limit on Interstates in Oklahoma 
was 80.  I remember that because it was the highest posted limit I had 
ever seen.  There were also some Western states with no posted limit, 
like Nevada and Montana, as already mentioned.


Mark Minton




To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net
with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex.  For help and
information go to www.cavetex.net.
List administrator:  mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net

CaveTex: Another Florida sinkhole in the news

[Bruce Johnson]

No photos yet. Maybe all the cameras are in Louisiana.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/09/AR2005090901752.html
http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsstory.asp?cat=newsreferrer=welcomeid=20050910/43225a40_3ca6_1552620050910-955210729 

Re: CaveTex: Re: Whats in a name?

[Bruce Johnson]

My geology professor mentioned on a field trip that there are several 
geological features out west with names like Molly's Nipple. Which 
raises the question: What will happen when they figure out what Grand 
Teton means?


Bruce



Mark Minton wrote:


DirtDoc said:

Back in the early 1960's a bunch of do-gooders in the US Geological 
Survey who had control of the Board of Geographic Nomenclature made a 
concerted, and effective, effort to expunge what they perceived to be 
offensive historical place names.



It's still happening.  In Carlsbad Cavern there is a famous 
formation known for a long time as the Breast of Venus, but the last 
time I was there a ranger said they were changing it to something else 
because some people found it offensive.  Say what!?


Mark Minton

To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net
with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex.  For help and
information go to www.cavetex.net.
List administrator:  mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net





To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net
with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex.  For help and
information go to www.cavetex.net.
List administrator:  mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net

Re: CaveTex: Re: Whats in a name?

[Bruce Johnson]

Okay. Since Ediger offered the challenge of renaming - How about 
Bodacious Ta-Tas National Park. It has a nice areola to it, I think.

Bruce

PS: You are probably correct, Annmarie. My professor went to school in 
Utah, and we were on our way there when the subject - um - popped up.


Don wrote:


On Thursday, September 15, 2005, at 02:14  AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:


What will happen when they figure out what Grand Teton means?

Bruce



Rename it the Big Boob range.





To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net
with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex.  For help and
information go to www.cavetex.net.
List administrator:  mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net

Re: CaveTex: another PC cave name

[Bruce Johnson]

My understanding is that Dean Keaton was a highly respected law 
professor at UT for many years. You may be more familiar with his 
daughter. Name's Carolyn Keaton something.


Bill Mixon wrote:


I don't terribly miss Twenty-sixth
Street in Austin (but who the hell was Dean Keaton?), except that numbered
streets are a lot easier to find without a map.




To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to mailto:majord...@cavetex.net
with the following message--unsubscribe cavetex.  For help and
information go to www.cavetex.net.
List administrator:  mailto:jswh...@cavetex.net

[Texascavers] Sauna

[Bruce Johnson]

Howdy to all! Another great weekend at TCR - Great food, entertainment 
and company. The new sauna sure looked inviting, but I'm not allowed to 
do that stuff anymore. Which is why I'm putting this shameless plug here 
now: I've posted a dry sauna heater unit on ebay as of last week. It 
runs until Thursday, but the bidding seems to already be getting (ahem) 
heated! If anyone's interested in building a genuine Swedish style sauna 
and needs a good heater unit, check this out. I wish I could still use it!
Bruce


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=4411487286rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=4411487286rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AITrd=1

___
Texascavers mailing list
Texascavers@texascavers.com
http://mail.texascavers.com/mailman/listinfo/texascavers_texascavers.com