Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border
Didn't I tow you and your truck to Bustamante from Minas Viejas once? All I can say is, the Federales have some cool 4x4 caving vehicles with propellers and turrets at the borders. There, caving related and on topic. Don's iPhone. On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Bruce Anderson brewskyj...@rgv.rr.com wrote: I actually live in deep south Texas in McAllen. I was in Juarez the first of the month and I can tell you that it is just as bad here as there only they keep it quiet around here. The problem is that you need to be very aware of your surroundings. Bullets do not care what is in their path. The US officials were on high alert down here twice last week with swat teams at the crossings because they thought it might spill over into the US. I am in and out Mexico doing business very frequently and all I can say is be very aware of your surroundings and be careful where you go. You may still get caught in the cross fire. There have been two gun fights one in Matamoros and one in Reynosa in the shopping malls in the past week. As far as the Mexican officials are concerned, I have learned how to pay the bribe game and never had and major problems other than spending time and bribe money getting it done. I can tell you this. I do not mind the drive out of south Texas but it would be very scary having a breakdown between McAllen and George West in the middle of no where. There are narcos (drug runners) and coyotes (people runners all through that region. I am not saying whether I carry or not but I will say I will defend myself. Bruce - Original Message - From: Geary Schindel To: Cavers Texas Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:26 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border This is in response to the new posting on travel to Mexico. This is from my caver friend that works in the Office of Homeland Security here in San Antonio. He is also on Texas Cavers list but prefers to keep a low profile. Something to think about. Geary Hi Geary! They said they were going to renew that. I am glad they did. Some of the areas are very dangerous right now. Folks just need to be aware of the threat and that things can turn sour very quickly. Bullets are not picky who they hit during a gunfight. There has also been an increase in drug trafficking from Big Bend NP to Maverick County along the Texas border in the US. In the last six months there has been at least two LARGE shipments picked up in Big Bend NP itself. It is Very similar to what they are doing out in Organ Pipe National Park. These are not the normal wetback with drugs scenario. These are well armed individuals dressed in black or camouflage carrying fairly large amounts of contraband. They usually travel at night and have normally a number of set pick up points which they rotate around. Cell phones are such a help to all. They will avoid contact if possible but if cornered have been know to fight. Normally if they are pressed hard they will drop there cargo and disappear but like stated before, they will fight if cornered and usually are quite ready to do that. They don't play by the same rules that we do. There has also been an increase in human trafficking (two or three young women from Mexico/Central America being sold in slavery or prostitution) These are not so heavily armed but the handlers have been aggressive in the last couple months. If confronted they will run and leave there cargo (the women) but there has been several incidences of ranchers and hunters being jumped at gates and such as the handlers were trying to steal the vehicle. Packing a handgun seems to be a quick cure as they knowmost ranchers and hunters will use them if they can. Just tell the guys to be careful going through gates to the caves late at night or early in the morning. The buddy system works and safety in numbers is a good thing. Two or more people they will evade and avoid. They have been breaking into vehicles at night as well along the border. This time of year seems to be the time that this increases as the weather is more temperate and they can move large groups at night quite easily. Hope this helps some. Just thought you would want to know and maybe pass this on. From your local Department of Homeland Security Friend! :) Take care Bro!
Re: [Texascavers] cave guns
This thread has me thinking about charge-driven bolting devices. I've seen anchor nails driven into concrete foundations with them - I wondered if gun cartridges just might be better than loads o' batteries. -WaV On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.comwrote: A bazooka has more range than a Grenade. -- *From:* wesley s [mailto:mudmal...@hotmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, February 22, 2010 9:32 AM *To:* kat...@yahoo.com; texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] cave guns I always cave with a few flash bangs and a concussion grenade. Those snakes don't know what hit em! Makes quick work or constrictions too. Wes~ --
[Texascavers] Cave Spelunker
Check out this application: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cave-spelunker/id323882959?mt=8 Don's iPhone. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Yes==NO!
Sounds like he would like to be a new member of the Texas Cave Management Association! Don's iPhone. On Feb 23, 2010, at 9:26 PM, bandits...@aol.com wrote: Thank u so much that's basically what I was trying to say. I want to know all about those things. Minnow NO, Just say NO! Time to talk more about caves -- two long threads in the last few days -- Guns and this list. Both are okay, but ... How deep to you think the deepest Northern Mexico Caves are? Or, what area of Mexico still needs more exploration? Or, Is anybody in touch with the owners of Sorcerer's, Wizard's Well, or H.T.Meirs lately? Or, Has anybody seen any decent caves for sale of late? Just sayin'
Re: [Texascavers] Mexico Travel
Geary had a bad experience with Federales and bullet holes once, kinda tainted his enjoyment of Mexico. Don's iPhone. On Feb 23, 2010, at 9:53 PM, Nico Escamilla pitboun...@gmail.com wrote: Most cavers should now by now not to pay attention to this kinda crap from the government just use some common sense. Nico On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Geary Schindel gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org wrote: Here is a post on CNN regarding a new state department advisory on travel in Mexico. http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/23/mexico.travel.warning/index.html?hpt=T2 G
Re: [Texascavers] Mexico Travel
You are welcome! Don't mention it. BTW, I never laughed... during the incident. ;-) Don's iPhone. On Feb 23, 2010, at 11:05 PM, Geary Schindel gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org wrote: Thanks Don for the comment on the bullet holes
Re: [Texascavers] Yes
Try starting with your name, please? Don's iPhone. On Feb 23, 2010, at 4:24 PM, bandits...@aol.com wrote: Thank u Kurt I want to be a Minnow in this shark infested sport ha ha playing want to get to know all of u. Minnow
Re: [Texascavers] Yes
Welcome Minnow! Don's iPhone. On Feb 23, 2010, at 4:31 PM, bandits...@aol.com wrote: My name is Kelly but I like to called Minnow if that's ok with u oh and its Kelly Garriott in Lampasas as I said.
Re: Re: [Texascavers] foremost caver
In a parallel universe where foremost cavers are revered and idolized more than foootball stars, I can imagine an advertising campaign that bleats: Foremost Cavers - such as Dr. Bill Stone, drink Foremost Milk! -WaV On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 5:52 AM, tbsam...@verizon.net wrote: And CoolCrest miniature golf was right across from the Foremost Creamery on Fred Road in San Antonio. T Feb 22, 2010 12:21:59 AM, wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: I thought Foremost was pretty good milk. -WaV On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.comwrote: David, I actually followed one of your links. Nobody claimed the person was _the_ state's foremost caver. The article merely said he was _one of_ Alaska's foremost cavers. That could mean anything, especially considering how many cavers there are in Alaska. I could come up with names of dozens of Texas foremost cavers. -- Mixon All the world’s a stage, but the play is badly cast.
Re: [Texascavers] caves versus guns versus cavers
On Feb 22, 2010, at 12:33 PM, Andy Gluesenkamp andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com wrote: Matt, a responsible caver would mention the gun in his pocket before joining a cave trip. CCW is not the same as one's sexual orientation or religious belief. CCW could alter the lifespan of everyone around you. Andy Actually, according to the law, the name of the game is concealment. A CCL wouldn't tell you he has a gun in his/her pocket. You don't need to ever know. Don
Re: [Texascavers] foremost caver
I thought Foremost was pretty good milk. -WaV On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: David, I actually followed one of your links. Nobody claimed the person was _the_ state's foremost caver. The article merely said he was _one of_ Alaska's foremost cavers. That could mean anything, especially considering how many cavers there are in Alaska. I could come up with names of dozens of Texas foremost cavers. -- Mixon All the world’s a stage, but the play is badly cast. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: cave guns
Where the Sun Dont Shine by Fred L. Wefer Don's iPhone. On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Might make a good mystery/shoot-‘em-up book. From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@illinoisalumni.org] Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:08 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Re: cave guns While it might conceivably be useful to carry a gun _to_ a cave entrance (although not in my personal 40+ years experience), I cannot see any reason at all to carry a gun _into_ a cave. Firing a gun in a cave would risk serious personal injury due to the dangers of ricochet, not to mention that there is very likely nothing in a cave that would be threatening enough to warrant having a gun. Anything worthy of a gun would be obvious almost immediately, like a bear or a lion, and there would likely be plenty of advance warning (like scat or remains of prey) so that one could get away before needing to fire. Except for some possibly extreme situations, this is a ridiculous concept. Mark Minton From: David dlocklea...@gmail.com To: Cavers Texas texascav...@texascavers..com Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 12:14:17 AM Subject: [Texascavers] cave guns Starting Monday, you will be able to take your caving guns inside almost all federally owned caves. The exceptions are the tour caves. You will need to have a concealed permit and make sure that the state you are caving in accepts your state's permit, or you will have to apply for a permit in that state. So what size gun do you pack? A 60 caliber hand-gun would be too big for most caving packs. A 50 caliber ought to do the trick: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9nu4csc5kbA/0.jpg I hope you can sense that I am mocking this new regulation. So let's say you in a caving group hiking to Madonna Cave and you are all packing heat. You get to the cave, suit up, and then what? Do you all leave your guns in the entrance? What if you come out of the cave to find some shady characters holding your guns at you? So I guess you take the guns in far enough so that that does not happen. Can anybody think of a reason other than snakes to carry a gun on a hike to a federally owned cave? A bear ? A mountain lion ? A wolf or coyote? A fugitive hiding in a cave? I think the ammunition should be carried in a separate compartment of the back-pack, and the gun should be in a Pelican case. I think the chances are more likely that more people are going to be accidentally shot ( and probably kids ), than the guns being used to defend in a situation. I don't think cavers should carry guns on their hike to a federally-owned cave. But if some caver chose to do so, would he or she be, disrespected? I would encourage any caver with me that wanted to carry a gun on the hike, to leave it at the car and locked up. ( This is all theoretical, as I would have to be going caving! ) If he said no, then I would tell him I am not going caving. If that failed, then I would want to make sure the gun was hidden beyond the twilight zone, under a rock, and covered with dirt. I see no reason to take a gun on a short hike, like Cottonwood Cave, or Hidden Cave? Those are BLM caves though, and all National Forest lands have had an open carry, policy for some time. Right? Has that policy ever produced a gun related issue with a cave trip? David Locklear
Re: [ot_caving] global warming mojo
There is nothing new in mankind's ignorance diminishing his number or quality of existence. Nature and time will take care of all the rest. It only frustrates me that the intelligence to turn it all around is in place, it's within our grasp. I'm convinced though - that apathy, ignorance and entropy will ultimately win out. -WaV On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Scott Nicholson csnichol...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The following was put forth in a conversation regarding global warming by a man I sorta knowamazing. I wish this stuff didn't piss me off so badly. It's like we live in the Dark Ages all over again! I'm trying to calm down before I draft my response. __ I've said from day-one. The man-made global warming doom movement is garbage!! (emphasis on doom). My reasoning results from 3 primary opinions/beliefs. First, I don't trust the data. I don't think it's possible to interpret the trends what we have as a global increasing trend, because I don't think our long-term data collection methodology doesn't support that kind analysis. Data collection has purpose and limitations!! I think we've got inconsistencies in the instruments used to measure temps around the world, the accuracy of the instruments undoubtedly varies, and there are variables that impact temperature at the various data collection sites that I don't think has been adequately considered. Second, the man-made global warming theory is inconsistent with my understanding of the Bible and of God's creation. I don't believe man has the power to alter God's plan for his creation. Therefore, IF it's happening, I don't think we (man) can start or stop it, or even accelerate or decelerate the phenomenon. I do not expect anyone who does not share my spiritual beliefs to understand or even be able to debate this issue with me. I also don't expect everyone who shares my religious beliefs to agree. It's just my opinion and interpretation of something that's not all that clear in the Bible or even important, frankly, in the grand scheme of things See More Finally, I think that global and cosmic climates are MUCH larger and much more complicated than we understand at this time. Man has much less impact on than we think. I think it's rather arrogant and narcissistic to believe man can control global climate, or even impact it to the degree some believe we have. Water covers 70-75% of the earth. Now consider the % of earth's land that man actually inhabits. We are very small in comparison! I have a hard time believing our minimal occupation of the planet would have such a global impact. I will end by saying that I'm open to being influenced and convinced otherwise on all 3 points above, but that no information has yet come to my attention that changes my view or convinces me that my beliefs are fallacious. ___ Scott Nicholson, Director KW Commercial 512-947-2688 Discovery Realty Group www.DiscoveryAustin.com www.KWCommercial.com
Re: [Texascavers] Bamberger Ranch on NPR
Tuesday night, February 9 is a show on Extreme Diving in NOVA. RISKING IT ALL FOR SCIENCE What drives scientists to delve into flooded caves where they face rock falls, nitrogen narcosis, even drowning? On Feb 3, 2010, at 12:03 PM, Mark Minton wrote: On Tuesday night's NPR news show All Things Considered there was a nice piece on the Bamberger Ranch and all of the conservation work being done there. Cavers will know it best as home of the chiroptorium artificial bat cave. You can read and listen at http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123068681. Mark Minton You may reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Extreme Diving on NOVA
Tuesday night, February 9 is a show on Extreme Diving on NOVA. RISKING IT ALL FOR SCIENCE What drives scientists to delve into flooded caves where they face rock falls, nitrogen narcosis, even drowning? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] TCMA in Wikipedia!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCMA - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: For those of you still thinking about caving with carbide...
These cylinders contain Acetylene under pressure, are painted black, ( small B and MC tanks can be gray, silver or red ) made of steel and have cylinder valves. They range in size from 10 to almost 400 cuft capacity. The cylinders contain a porous filler material which is wetted with acetone that allows the Acetylene to safely be contained in the cylinder at 250 psig. Always use an Acetylene cylinder in the up right position so you don't draw any of the acetone out of the tank. Only open the cylinder valve 1 to 1 1/2 turns, leaving the valve wrench on the valve in the event it has to be shut off quickly. Acetylene should never be used at a pressure that exceeds 15 psig as it becomes highly unstable which, depending on the condition, could cause it to decompose and explode. On Feb 3, 2010, at 12:58 PM, Mark Minton wrote: Pete Lindsley said: Here are a couple of URL's from Ed's video suggestion: http://carbidbus.nl/ http://vuurwerkweb.nl/ Perhaps Mark or gillerger would care to comment on some historical things involving beaches and garbage bags... The Dutch obviously take their carbide cannons and fireworks very seriously! :-) Ediger will have to relate the story of the acetylene gas bag. That was before my time in Texas. But I will add that compressing acetylene in any fashion is very dangerous. It can explode spontaneously even without a source of ignition. That's why acetylene tanks used for welding actually contain a solution of acetylene in acetone or some other liquid. The pure gas would be too unstable under pressure. Mark You may reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: For those of you still thinking about caving with carbide...
Acetylene’s flammability is its essential value to the welding industry. But it also creates safe handling concerns. To stabilize the acetylene and reduce the potential for “flashback” ignition of the tank, acetylene cylinders are fitted with a solid binding medium containing as much as six gallons of acetone (C3H6O) , which controls decomposition by reducing dissolved oxygen levels. This solvent is considered crucial to the safe operation of acetylene cylinders. Over time and multiple re-fillings, a given acetylene tank cylinder will eventually fail to pass requalification and must be properly disposed of. In the past, this has meant that the metal shell, the residual acetylene gas and acetone are all either sent to a landfill or stockpiled on the owners’ site. This latter option raises risks of leakage and soil leaching, human injury and other HSE issues for the site owner. And the drawbacks to landfilling include the material waste of burying large amounts of recyclable aluminum or steel and the risks of leakage, environmental damage and subsequent liability. Acetone is a common solvent used in a wide range of household and industrial products from fingernail polish remover to detergents. Acetone is considered a VOC and according to the National Institutes of Health,1 breathing moderate-to-high levels of acetone for short periods of time can cause nose, throat, lung, and eye irritation. It can also cause intoxication, headaches, fatigue, stupor, light-headedness, dizziness, confusion, increased pulse rate, nausea, vomiting, and shortening of the menstrual cycle in women. Human exposure to acetone can occur via contaminated drinking water or food and by living near a landfill site or other facility that releases acetone emissions. On Feb 3, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Don Arburn wrote: These cylinders contain Acetylene under pressure, are painted black, ( small B and MC tanks can be gray, silver or red ) made of steel and have cylinder valves. They range in size from 10 to almost 400 cuft capacity. The cylinders contain a porous filler material which is wetted with acetone that allows the Acetylene to safely be contained in the cylinder at 250 psig. Always use an Acetylene cylinder in the up right position so you don't draw any of the acetone out of the tank. Only open the cylinder valve 1 to 1 1/2 turns, leaving the valve wrench on the valve in the event it has to be shut off quickly. Acetylene should never be used at a pressure that exceeds 15 psig as it becomes highly unstable which, depending on the condition, could cause it to decompose and explode. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: For those of you still thinking about caving with carbide...
Yeah - I forgot to pick up liquid oxygen when I went down to HEB! Thanks for the reminder! -WaV On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: Louise Power submitted Carbide Shooting 2010 Darwin Award Nominee Confirmed True by Darwin This may be true, but there are so many errors in the synopsis that I have my doubts. Calcium carbide is CaC2, not CaCb, and the gas it forms is acetylene, not ethylene. And where did a man from a rural village get liquid oxygen? Even if he had liquid oxygen, the oxygen container would not have exploded, but rather whatever he was pouring it onto. Seems mighty suspicious to me. I have no doubt that the actions described would have been devastating, but if someone from Darwin confirmed the story, they should have at least corrected the factual errors. Mark Minton You may reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] rubber caving boots - more info
I use them, not in Honey Creek though. I really like the sole's grip for climbing, much better than my Vasque's. The drains are nice for wet jungle river crossings. Don's iPhone. On Jan 31, 2010, at 8:22 PM, wa5...@peoplepc.com wrote: David, Nice resources. Anyone still use the 'Nam jungle boots? Seem to be hard to find nowdays. ~F~ Here is a web-site that claims their rubber caving boots are on sale for $ 24.55 http://www.safetekusa.com/Polyblend-Boots-P491.aspx Here are some other boots in the same category: http://www.westernsafety.com/northfootprotection/norcrosspg29-713 04.jpg The one above is called Black Servus Iron Duke, #73104 http://www.westernsafety.com/northfootprotection/norcrosspg29-R11 41.jpg The one above is called Black Ranger 5-Eyelet Safety Work Shoe, #R1141 Here is another brand: http://www.safetysourceinc.com/GroupInfo/GroupID/1119455450 You can possibly find a distributor near you, if you don't want to order them on-line. As Rod Goke mentioned in his post, you need to order them 1/2 loose, so that you can wear neoprene socks, or a layer of 2 socks. Here is a link to more info: http://technology.darkfrontier.us/Wearing/Boots/ If you want the best boots available, the French claim to have them. http://www.etchesecurite.com/products/45/mic_canyon_shoes.html A well-known caver has been a distributor for these boots for many years. U.S. caver's call them Joop Boots, named after the distributor. He will custom fit them to your feet. The best way to contact him is probably Facebook at: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php? id=1581704107ref=searchsid=18181 18612.148009812..1 I bumped into him at an NSS Convention 2 or 3 years ago, and it seemed he was still doing this. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Sonora Butterfly
I'm in. Don's iPhone. On Jan 28, 2010, at 11:05 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Any takers? Mark A. -Original Message- From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 11:03 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Sonora Butterfly As for there being 7 miles in Sonora, I doubt it, but if true why hasn't anyone started a serious resurvey project? Could make a great TSA activity. Mark M. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] San Antonio slumps
More rains coming soon! This could turn into a real big mess. -WaV On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: It is often said and there is a widespread misconception that the Balcones Fault is inactive, meaning that it no longer moves. First, the idea that it is only one fault is inaccurate; it is more correctly a fault zone made up of probably millions of smaller, local faults, some mere meters long, others well up on the order of dozens of kilometers. And they move; the seismograph says so. Consider that there are many pre-existing joints and faults and that would otherwise appear to be 'inactive'. These joints are filled with mud which dissolves the surfaces of these rocks. As the rocks are dissolved their center of gravity and their contacts with adjoining rocks changes or goes away, or rains wash away or introduce clay or other material. Rains and drouths will alter the mud and moisture content. Seasonal heating and cooling of the near-surface rocks will affect their stability. The rock's immediate environment changes over time and it must adjust itself accordingly. It moves. And that movement, if large enough, will register on a seismograph; it's a mini-earthquake. There are thousands of them every day along the length of the (seemingly inactive) Balcones Fault Zone. It is entirely possible, and even likely, that the slumping going on in San Antonio is a mass of rock spalling along a joint or fault after a lower side-supporting member has been removed through natural processes or quarrying and the recent rains have washed out and/or lubricated any clay binders in the joint. --Ediger on Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:38 PM, SS back2scool...@hotmail.com wrote: The neighborhood was probably built on a landfill...lol. That's what happens when you cut corners...I hope Centex gets sued into bankruptcy. -Original Message- From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org] Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:48 PM To: tbsam...@verizon.net; texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: jrsam...@aol.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] San Antonio sinkholes.. Folks, This is not a sinkhole but a classic hill slope failure. Quite impressive as slips go. Geary -Original Message- From: tbsam...@verizon.net [mailto:tbsam...@verizon.net] Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:32 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: jrsam...@aol.com Subject: [Texascavers] San Antonio sinkholes.. Our backyard has shifted about 10 feet, and everything is pushed closer to our house, said Sara Koenig, 23. She and her husband, 27, left early Sunday to study and to volunteer at a local hospital, respectively. She said neighbors called her at 11 a.m. to report their back fence had collapsed but her two Chihuahuas were safe. Near helotes. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/82553087.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] More on Federal reconsideration of 12 endangered Texas cave species :
Man - on the first article Jerry posted, there were several 'comments' from the general public about the new story... Is the 'rest of Texas' really so eaten up with ignorance, intolerance and thinly veiled racism!?!? I found it hard to believe that nearly every response to the story was crap like Obamination.. and if stupid hippies get their way... I guess it's up to the enlightened to educate - but how do you teach 'Bubba' the importance of land stewardship. How do you teach a pig to play a piano? -WaV On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:51 AM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote: *Note: The following has an obvious political message but the details of the Federal decision are there.* ** *Reversing Bush Political Corruption, Feds Agree to Increase Critical Habitat Protection for 12 Texas Endangered Species* AUSTIN, *Texas*— In response to a lawsuit from the Center for Biological Diversity, Citizen’s Alliance for Smart Expansion, and Aquifer Guardians in Urban Areas, the Obama administration agreedhttp://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/cleaning_up_the_bush_legacy/pdfs/Settlement-12-18-2009.pdflate Friday to reconsider critical habitat designation for 12 endangered Texas invertebrates, including three species from Comal Springs and nine species from caves in Bexar County. With colorful names like the robber baron Cave harvestman, vesper cave spider, and Comal Springs riffle beetle, these 12 species are immediately threatened by excessive water withdrawal and urban sprawl. Today’s announcement reverses previous critical habitats, designated by the Bush administration, that failed to include areas deemed by scientists to be essential to the survival of the 12 species. “Consistent with their efforts to minimize protection for the nation’s endangered species, the Bush administration shortchanged these 12 Texas species,” said Noah Greenwald, endangered species program director for the Center for Biological Diversity. “These 12 rare and unique species need increased critical habitat protections if they are going to have any chance at survival.” For the three Comal Springs species, the Bush administration ignored the advice of expert peer reviewers and only included the small area around the springs themselves, even though the primary threat to the species is groundwater pumping from the larger Edwards Aquifer. For the nine Bexar County cave species, the administration slashed critical habitats proposed by the agency’s own scientists by 82 to 100 percent, leaving them vulnerable to sprawl from San Antonio. “Ignoring science was the name of the game for the Bush administration,” said Bill Bunch, attorney on the case and executive director of the Save Our Springs Alliance. “We trust the Obama administration will give science its due and dramatically increase the area of protected critical habitat for these species.” The Center for Biological Diversity has been actively working to overturn Bush-era decisions limiting protection for endangered species, including suing to overturn decisions affecting 55 specieshttp://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/cleaning_up_the_bush_legacy/species.html. To date, this campaign has been highly successful, with the Obama administration agreeing to reconsider 45 of the 54 decisions, including the 12 Texas species today. *Background on the Species: * *Peck’s Cave amphipod, Comal Springs dryopid beetle, and Comal Springs riffle beetle. *These three Texas invertebrates occur in only four springs where they are threatened by ground water pumping in the Edwards Aquifer. After Fish and Wildlife Service scientists drafted a proposed rule that included subterranean waters in the aquifer, Deputy Assistant Secretary Julie MacDonald ordered that only the small areas around the springs be designated despite the fact that threats are to the aquifer and not the springs. *Robber baron cave harvestman, vesper cave spider, Government Canyon cave spider, Madla’s cave spider, robber baron cave spider, and helotes mold beetle, Cicurina venii, Rhadine exilis, Cokendolpher cave harvestman.*These nine karst-dwelling species all occur in one or more caves of Bexar County, Texas, and are threatened by rapid urban sprawl in and around San Antonio. Critical habitat had been reduced for these species from between 82 to 100 percent, with a total of more than 15,000 acres removed from protection. http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2009/texas-invertebrates-12-21-2009.html
Re: [Texascavers] More on Federal reconsideration of 12 endangered Texas cave species :
Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time, and annoys the pig. Happy Holidays! Don's iPhone. On Dec 25, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: Man - on the first article Jerry posted, there were several 'comments' from the general public about the new story... Is the 'rest of Texas' really so eaten up with ignorance, intolerance and thinly veiled racism!?!? I found it hard to believe that nearly every response to the story was crap like Obamination.. and if stupid hippies get their way... I guess it's up to the enlightened to educate - but how do you teach 'Bubba' the importance of land stewardship. How do you teach a pig to play a piano? -WaV On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:51 AM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote: Note: The following has an obvious political message but the details of the Federal decision are there. Reversing Bush Political Corruption, Feds Agree to Increase Critical Habitat Protection for 12 Texas Endangered Species AUSTIN, Texas— In response to a lawsuit from the Center for Biologic al Diversity, Citizen’s Alliance for Smart Expansion, and Aquifer Gu ardians in Urban Areas, the Obama administration agreed late Friday to reconsider critical habitat designation for 12 endangered Texas i nvertebrates, including three species from Comal Springs and nine sp ecies from caves in Bexar County. With colorful names like the robbe r baron Cave harvestman, vesper cave spider, and Comal Springs riffl e beetle, these 12 species are immediately threatened by excessive w ater withdrawal and urban sprawl. Today’s announcement reverses previous critical habitats, designated by the Bush administration, that failed to include areas deemed by scientists to be essential to the survival of the 12 species. “Consistent with their efforts to minimize protection for the nation ’s endangered species, the Bush administration shortchanged these 12 Texas species,” said Noah Greenwald, endangered species program dir ector for the Center for Biological Diversity. “These 12 rare and un ique species need increased critical habitat protections if they are going to have any chance at survival.” For the three Comal Springs species, the Bush administration ignored the advice of expert peer reviewers and only included the small area around the springs themselves, even though the primary threat to the species is groundwater pumping from the larger Edwards Aquifer. For the nine Bexar County cave species, the administration slashed critical habitats proposed by the agency’s own scientists by 82 to 1 00 percent, leaving them vulnerable to sprawl from San Antonio. “Ignoring science was the name of the game for the Bush administrati on,” said Bill Bunch, attorney on the case and executive director of the Save Our Springs Alliance. “We trust the Obama administration w ill give science its due and dramatically increase the area of prote cted critical habitat for these species.” The Center for Biological Diversity has been actively working to overturn Bush-era decisions limiting protection for endangered species, including suing to overturn decisions affecting 55 species. To date, this campaign has been highly successful, with the Obama administration agreeing to reconsider 45 of the 54 decisions, including the 12 Texas species today. Background on the Species: Peck’s Cave amphipod, Comal Springs dryopid beetle, and Comal Spring s riffle beetle. These three Texas invertebrates occur in only four springs where they are threatened by ground water pumping in the Edw ards Aquifer. After Fish and Wildlife Service scientists drafted a p roposed rule that included subterranean waters in the aquifer, Deput y Assistant Secretary Julie MacDonald ordered that only the small ar eas around the springs be designated despite the fact that threats a re to the aquifer and not the springs. Robber baron cave harvestman, vesper cave spider, Government Canyon cave spider, Madla’s cave spider, robber baron cave spider, and helo tes mold beetle, Cicurina venii, Rhadine exilis, Cokendolpher cave h arvestman. These nine karst-dwelling species all occur in one or mor e caves of Bexar County, Texas, and are threatened by rapid urban sp rawl in and around San Antonio. Critical habitat had been reduced fo r these species from between 82 to 100 percent, with a total of more than 15,000 acres removed from protection. http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2009/texas-invertebrates-12-21-2009.html
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Can plumbers be trusted with cell phones?
Editor of the Caver. You probably are between the keyboard and chair more than most of us. Luddite, ain't that rich! I'm not so much tethered to my iPhone (I turn off the phone regularly) as having a toolkit in my pocket. Calculator, weather, map, translator, radio, remote control, dictionary, camera, sky chart, movie listing, chemical light stick, clock, currency exchange, tip calculator, bird identification book, text, email, Google, and a dozen other ways to pass the time while waiting for my tractor... In one small package. Don's iPhone. On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:21 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: I like your style, Louise! I keep my candy bar cell phone in the truck and, usually, turned off. I hate to sound like a Luddite, but, I can't understand how so many people's lives revolve around or are tethered to their cell phones, especially, the iPhones. (Addicted?) My kids are the biggest culprits, but, as long as they're paying their own bills, I don't care. Now, don't get me started on the folks I see every day yacking/ texting on their phones on LBJ! Unplugged and loving it! Mark From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Fri 12/18/2009 4:07 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Can plumbers be trusted with cell phones? Mine stays turned off and tucked away in my purse (just in case I need it on the road). I vowed when I got rid of my house phone about ten years ago and got a cell phone, that it would be for my convenience only. If people can find my number, they can call me and leave a message (I generally check it about once a week), but there are only about five people who have the number (for emergencies). The tether has been cut and I am not constantly on call. Louise
Re: [Texascavers] Mexico Green Angels
I've seen them the last two trips to Monterrey Saltillo, especially that long empty section between Laredo and Monterrey. Last trip they were seen helping someone on the way down, and waiting under a bridge on the way back. Don's iPhone. On Dec 19, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Jon cavefa...@yahoo.com wrote: W Preston! I hadn't thought about the Green Angels in some 15-years or so. Maybe beacuse I haven't actully seen them on the hwys for 20-years or so. --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Preston Forsythe pns_...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: Preston Forsythe pns_...@bellsouth.net Subject: [Texascavers] Mexico Green Angels To: TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 5:29 PM Here is some interesting Mexico Travel Information we have not used, but just in case I am putting a copy in my glove box. - GREEN ANGELS (Angeles Verdes) http://www.sectur.gob.mx/wb/sectur/sect_9453_angeles_verdes The Green Angels The unthinkable happens: your car is kaput. Luckily for you, there’s a slender shoulder that you manage to pull onto before the thing co nks out. Cars whiz by on the highway, but no one stops. Or maybe sev eral helpful citizens stop, but can’t help, because your fuel pump i s busted. Being stuck on the side of the road is stressful in any situation, but especially in a foreign country where language may be a barrier. Since the 1970s, the federally funded Angeles Verdes, or Green Angels, have proved a godsend to motorists in distress from Tijuana to Ticul. In the old days you had to wait for the blessed sight of a dark green Angeles Verdes truck to trundle into view, but today salvation for those who run out of gas, can’t fix a flat, or blow a water pump is just a phone call away. How to Get Help Dial 078 from any cell phone or TELMEX phone booth. Your call will be routed to the Green Angels’ Mexico City dispatch office. Agents t here will radio the appropriate unit throughout the country. Green A ngels don’t service every little backwater, however they do patrol a ll federal and toll highways. The tow trucks typically make a full-circuit trip of each highway per day, in addition to responding to emergency calls. Agents typically work from 8AM to 8PM. On major holidays like semana santa (Easter week) and on puentes (long weekends) they are available 24 hours a day. Drivers carry gasoline and motor oil as well as spare tires and parts for minor but important repairs. Trained in CPR, they can administer first aid in the event of an accident or medical emergency. While their main function is to help motorists in distress, they also carry maps and brochures of their regions. Most drivers speak excellent to reasonably good English and are knowledgeable about road conditions and tolls in their areas. To Pay or Not to Pay? There’s no charge for these services, but motorists must pay for gas oline, oil and parts. There’s conflicting information in guide books and on the web about whether drivers can accept tips. Mr. Gómez ass ured me that tips are permitted, and the Green Angels are happy to a ccept them. He reiterated, however, that the service is free, and th at tips are entirely optional. In 2007 the nation’s fleet of Green Angel trucks numbered 1,800; add itional vehicles are expected in March 2008. Motorists can easily re cognize the white with green stripes and lettering trucks with gover nment logos painted on the side. Drivers wear a green uniform and ca rry identification with their name and photo around the neck. --- Have a safe trip, Preston
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Can TSA be trusted with email addresses?
I don't know about y'all, but my NSS News Texas Caver live on the toilet tank for a few weeks as browsing material during my peaceful moments on the throne. I can't imagine reading The Caver on my iPhone. Don's iPhone. On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com wrote: I have yet to have a piece of paper run out of batteries. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action
Something worth considering when taking it all into account: It takes a LOT of water to scrub coal-fired plant stack columns. A whole lot of water that becomes horribly contaminated with all the shit that WOULD have gone into the air. Then you're left with a clean air power plant with millions of gallons of contaminated water. Whatya gonna have - clean air or clean water??? So. Yeah - there's a LOTTA coal out there. Only there's just so much clean air / water -WaV On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com wrote: I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live. Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include: The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas, Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Increase Funding for State Parks Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA. Logan -- George Veni wrote: *Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. * *George * ** -- ** *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.combgillegi...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Gill Edigar *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water RE: Clean Water Action A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] crazy ants
Not the same stuff. My vet said pool filter stuff would hurt pets, silica or something. Don's iPhone. On Dec 11, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote: An interesting part of this string is the mention of diatomaceous earth. At one time I had an above ground pool and am vaguely familiar with this very fine white powder used in the filter. If kept dry, does it actually kill certain pests such as fire ants? I assume that ‘kills mechanically” means that it gets on their feet and disrupts some bodily function. Hopefully Mark Minton or someone can give us more detail. Fritz From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:26 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] crazy ants I got an e-mail from my sister today in response to the article. She lives SE of San Antonio and says: We have not seen them here but my friend, , who lives in Cotulla, about 90 miles south of here, has had them for about 3 years. Her exterminator comes and sprays and it essentially kills only the ones it hits. They then move the hive across the street or down into a vacant lot, etc.. Once they are disturbed again they move back to her house. She is having an influx of them right now. The only good thing is they do get rid of the fire ants but these are more invasive than fire ants. They do not sting and that is the another good thing about them. I sent her a link on diatomaceous earth, http://www.dirtworks.net/Diatomaceous-Earth.html and recommended that she send it to her friend. It may at least help keep them out of her house. I've been using it for years. Kills pests mechanically, not chemically, so they don't become immune to it. Good for getting rid of a lot of other pests, too. Louise From: bmixon...@austin.rr.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:38:44 -0600 Subject: [Texascavers] crazy ants We'll see. I can't help being suspicious of a press release that quotes a professional exterminator, a market development person for a company that makes a pesticide licensed for use against them, and a professor who studies them, presumably with grant money. Notice that is says that no bait has been developed specifically for them, not that no existing bait works. My personal little bit of conspiracy theory -- Mixon Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them more. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
As a past editor of the caver, I'd say you got off easy. Don's iPhone. On Dec 11, 2009, at 9:57 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: My day yesterday began calmly enough. I woke up from a Benadryl induced haze at around 4 AM and, mistakenly, thought it was Saturday and, for whatever reason, I turned off the alarm on my clock radio. I then proceeded to snooze soundly and woke up 2 hours later but, unfortunately, 45 minutes past the time I should have gotten up for work. After struggling to brush my teeth, take a shower, and drop the kids off at the pool (not necessarily in that order and definitely not at the same time), I dashed down the stairs to get my daily caffeine injection and hit the road. I was greeted in the kitchen by Buddy, our faux Man's Best Friend, and all of the calling cards he had left around the kitchen floor. (He's had digestive issues of late, due to my over-indulgence with him and giving him people food. I suspect the leftover Thanksgiving turkey I gave him earlier in the week. Is green stuff on turkey OK for consumption?). After cleaning up his disgusting mess and hating my life, I stumbled out the door. Ordinarily, I make a ritual of listening to the traffic reports over a pleasant breakfast. But, being in a rush, having no coffee, and having to tap dance around Buddy's little friends on the said linoleum floor, I neglected to pay attention. While barreling down LBJ and munching on the toast and warmed over coffee (I also forgot to set up the coffee machine for yesterday AM!), I ran into a solid traffic jam and, having missed my usual short cut turn off, sat in traffic for nearly an hour before reaching my place of employment. (I love my job, hate the commute, but was most certainly having a better day than the folks involved in the wreck ahead of me, them having needed an ambulance, and all). Finally reaching my desk, I ruminated on my day, thus far, and heaved a sigh of relief for having gotten here in one piece and pleased with FINALLY having mailed out the latest issue of The TEXAS CAVER. (I love our new printer and the quality work they do, but, speed is not one of their best attributes. I sent the files to them Nov. 19th, received HALF of the order December 4th and the other half on the 8th! Thanks USPS!) Thus begins my rant concerning the USPS and why, I implore you, to consider receiving your TC electronically... After a uneventful day of work, including a tortuous three hour meeting and feeling the life force being sucked out of my body and wishing I had a pistol, I headed for home and hearth. This would not be my last pistol-related thought on this day of Our Lord. I was greeted at the door by a turd-free Buddy, the digestively challenged dog, and a lovely pink note from my favorite public servant, the USPS. Having finally mailed out the last TC of the year at a price per newsletter of $3.05, plus $.88 in postage, the lovely Snail Mail folks wanted an additional $.51 per issue before they could be mailed out. Ah, the joy of insufficient postage! My goal of keeping the TC under $4 per issue was shattered! I swore at Buddy the Wonder Dog, cursed every government entity in existence, again questioned my life, grabbed the lil' ol' pink slip, thankfully left my pistol at home (I didn't feel like doing 20 to life at Huntsville for a TEXAS CAVER induced incident) and motored to that 5th level of Hell called The Post Office Waiting Line at Christmas. Thankfully, the line wasn't THAT long and I only had to wait 20 minutes to be told I was in the wrong line and needed to go the parcel pick up line at the OTHER end of the building. Heart rate rising, I trudged down to that window, waited five minutes for the clerk to come to the window. (The half door was closed and I seriously wondered if anyone was actually behind Door #2) and she took my slip. I waited an additional 10 minutes and looked for the Most Wanted Posters (I always enjoyed looking at these as a kid and, as a currently hot-headed adult, was trying my best to not see my face joining them on this day!). The clerk finally came back and said she couldn't find the 149 newsletters and her manager would look for them unless, of course, they had already gone out. At this point, I would like to mention that insufficient postage has NEVER been an issue with the TC. I waited another five minutes and her boss came out and said that they had not gone out (dammit!) and I would have to go back to the original line, (Do Not Pass Go! and Do Not Collect $200), and pay for the additional postage there. Rolling my eyes skyward and reconsidering the wisdom of leaving my pistol at home, I wandered back to the now considerably longer line, as you'll recall being affectionately referenced as the 5th level of Hell called The Post Office Waiting Line at Christmas. Having started
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Digital
On Dec 11, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Fritz Holt wrote: George certainly makes good sense. After all, we vote on our political leaders (?) every two to four years. Fritz All elected officials should have their services limited to two terms. One term in office and a second term in prison. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
Printer ink is one of the most expensive fluids on Earth ounce for ounce. On Dec 11, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Fritz Holt wrote: Even color printers are inexpensive now and the expensive inks would probably last a long time if used only to print the TC. F. From: Pete Lindsley [mailto:caverp...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:47 PM To: TexasCavers Cc: Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG Amen! - Pete On Dec 11, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: I say that those who like reading a hard copy should get a printer, so the rest of us don’t have to pay for their indulgence ;-) Cheers, Stefan
Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG
http://www.newslettersandmore.net/html/electronic.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
I'd be happy to host. I have 350 acres in Bee County. That's between Corpus Christi and San Antonio. Free, no charge. Large Pavillion and one windmill. No river, creek or kitchen. Plenty of thorns and cow pies. Don's iPhone. On Dec 2, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Preston Forsythe pns_...@bellsouth.net wrote: Doesn't some caver own a field surrounded by a few trees? How big does it have to be? Three acres? Five acres would easily do it. I went to one of the events a few years ago in April, it was west of San Marcos. Cost more than it should for only 2 or 3 days and I frankly do not know why? Everyone camped in a field of less than 2 acres. There was one ordinary KY style outhouse, certainly nothing fancy. And, there was a plain small 30 x 40 ft. building for presentations on Sat. I think all of that, including one meal, cost at least a thousand, maybe two thou. It fact a hat had to be passed around to break even. On Sunday the conservation meetings were conducted outside. What did we pay for except a place to park our vehicle? Ediger, Ernie, Don or Raines, and others, I thought had several acres which could work, and they are centrally located in the state. I have never understood why one of those events should cost $40-50 for two people for only 2 to 2 1/2 days. Preston --- - Original Message - From: Denise P To: TexasCavers Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related True. I also suggested Flat Creek Ranch to Ellie. Might work. Cheers, Denise Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:34:49 + From: jran...@gmail.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie was that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets her budget, her travelconstraints, her whims etc than it is the right place. No matter what, someone will be unhappy. By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding an affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically would love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the conference room is a bit low for presentations and close camping is problematic. CWAN is in a good location but has no potable water, dry weather only camping and we would have to work around the tours in the cave. Most of us loath the thought of going back to Kerrville after the bout of Irritable Caver Syndrome that hit us this summer. Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out in, well, Sonora! Cascade Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of prep work and you might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett was fun but the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on. We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that works! If you don't like it run for TSA VP. Joe On Dec 2, 2009 3:26pm, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: Stefan, Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in West Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in Houston have a long drive. Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive. If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA Convention, you find a way to get there. Diana On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote: The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want to drive all the way to East Texas? Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide). Cheers, Stefan -Original Message- From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM To: Cavers Texas Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention. I would like to make a motion that this camp be on the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention. I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge. He immediately replied, and said he would mention it to the committee that controls this camp. I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to other choices that were mentioned. This place does not have any karst or any of the scenery of the Texas Hill Country.However, it is out in the sticks. Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been held at before. I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock. I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would
Re: [Texascavers] Utah cave to entomb spelunker :
If I ever need a cave rescue - get together a caver rescue team. PLEASE don't call 911! -WaV On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 9:38 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote: Utah cave to entomb spelunker Tragedy » Officials say it's too risky to retrieve John Jones, will seal cavern with his body inside. By Lindsay Whitehurst The Salt Lake Tribune lwhitehu...@sltrib.com?subject=Salt+Lake+Tribune:+Utah+cave+to+entomb+spelunker Updated: 11/28/2009 10:46:43 AM MST The cave that claimed the life of John Jones will also be his tomb. Nutty Putty Cave will be sealed permanently with the 26-year-old medical student's body inside, a decision supported by his family and rescue officials, who said retrieving him is too great a risk to rescuers. They also cited a desire to protect the safety of future cavers. The cave will serve as the final resting place for John Edward Jones, said Utah County sheriff's Sgt. Spencer Cannon. The Jones family will place a permanent memorial at the cave's entrance. It will be, as they describe it, a sacred place for them and for a lot of other people, he said. Officials considered closing only the part of the cave where Jones rests, http://www.sltrib.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=2754117 John Edward Jones, 26, will have his final resting place in the Nutty Putty Cave, the Utah County Sherriff's Office announced Friday. There will be no more recovery efforts because of the dangers of the cave. (Rick Egan / The Salt Lake Tribune) but as Kim Christy, assistant director at the state School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration (SITLA), said, We decided it probably wasn't appropriate to have recreational activities going on in the same area that has a final resting place. Jones died late Wednesday after becoming stuck in an unmapped finger of the cave near the end of the main passageway, about 100 feet below the surface and 400 feet from the entrance, not near Bob's Push as previously reported. Rescuers briefly pulled him out of the crevice using a pulley system and ropes tied to his feet, but he slipped back in after an anchor broke free of the cave wall. The 137 people who tried to free Jones are physically and mentally exhausted after the 27-hour effort, and will be offered critical stress counseling, said Utah County sheriff's Sgt. Tom Hodgson. It isn't in our makeup to leave anything undone, he said. They still feel like there is work left to be done, that they didn't bring closure to the Jones family. He described the Herculean effort as the most difficult rescue he's worked on in 30 years. Jones' brother Josh said the family stands behind the crews, and are grateful for their efforts. There are some who feel like they failed our family, he said. We know they did their best. We want to thank them from the bottom of our hearts. John Valentine, a state senator and longtime search-and-rescue participant, said the crevice is simply too small, and the passage too winding, for anyone to crawl inside and pull him out without being at risk themselves. He is in an area that is really beyond the scope of what anyone can get into, he said. It's where the cave peters down to nothing. Jones entered the small passage as he and a group of family and friends fanned out to explore the cave. About 400 feet in, he found himself unable to move, stuck at a 70-degree angle with a good portion of his waist and torso pinched in an approximately 10-inch-wide space, Cannon said. His head was out and unsupported at one end, and his feet stuck out at the other end. After crews got him out of the crevice, they still would have had to pull him through the difficult stretch of cave behind him, which twisted and turned in 90-degree angles over uneven ground, Cannon said. But Jones fell again less than 30 minutes after he was unstuck. He wasn't injured in the fall, but started struggling to breathe about two hours later. He later fell silent after relaying messages to his family, Hodgson said. Rescuers, who also have medical training, threaded a stethoscope in the crevice but could not find a pulse. He was pronounced dead at 11:57 p.m. He is thought to have died of the effects of the constant pressure on his body. I don't think we'll ever be certain, and I don't think that's important, said Utah County Sheriff Jim Tracy. Jones was home for Thanksgiving in Stansbury Park from Charlottesville, Va., where he was a second-year medical student at the University of Virginia. He planned to become a pediatric cardiologist. He graduated from Dixie High School in St. George, where he played basketball and was senior class president, said friend Morgan Miles. He met his wife, Emily, at Brigham Young University. They married in 2006 and had a 14-month-old daughter, Elizabeth, whom they called Lizzie. The couple recently found out Emily is pregnant and expecting a second child in June. Jones had
Re: [Texascavers] Utah cave to entomb spelunker :
Haha! Nothing other than my own bad habits are keeping me from getting back into caving condition. It could happen! And since this topic is current, I couldn't help trying to put a mental note in everyone's noggin. The idea of being unsuccessfully rescued by emergency personnel sure doesn't sound like a good end to any trip! Have you ever heard the caver definition of 'spelunker' - people that get rescued by cavers? John Jones didn't get rescued by cavers - he got (essentially) made dead by EMS recovery efforts. Ultimately he did himself in. Pretty dumb for wedging himself into a narrow crack that he couldnt possibly work his way out of. Stupid of him - tragic for his family. -DC On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote: Don't you have to actually be in a cave before you can get rescued? :) just joking wavy Charles On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: If I ever need a cave rescue - get together a caver rescue team. PLEASE don't call 911! -WaV On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 9:38 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote: Utah cave to entomb spelunker Tragedy » Officials say it's too risky to retrieve John Jones, will seal cavern with his body inside. By Lindsay Whitehurst The Salt Lake Tribune lwhitehu...@sltrib.com?subject=Salt+Lake+Tribune:+Utah+cave+to+entomb+spelunker Updated: 11/28/2009 10:46:43 AM MST The cave that claimed the life of John Jones will also be his tomb. Nutty Putty Cave will be sealed permanently with the 26-year-old medical student's body inside, a decision supported by his family and rescue officials, who said retrieving him is too great a risk to rescuers. They also cited a desire to protect the safety of future cavers. The cave will serve as the final resting place for John Edward Jones, said Utah County sheriff's Sgt. Spencer Cannon. The Jones family will place a permanent memorial at the cave's entrance. It will be, as they describe it, a sacred place for them and for a lot of other people, he said. Officials considered closing only the part of the cave where Jones rests, http://www.sltrib.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=2754117 John Edward Jones, 26, will have his final resting place in the Nutty Putty Cave, the Utah County Sherriff's Office announced Friday. There will be no more recovery efforts because of the dangers of the cave. (Rick Egan / The Salt Lake Tribune) but as Kim Christy, assistant director at the state School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration (SITLA), said, We decided it probably wasn't appropriate to have recreational activities going on in the same area that has a final resting place. Jones died late Wednesday after becoming stuck in an unmapped finger of the cave near the end of the main passageway, about 100 feet below the surface and 400 feet from the entrance, not near Bob's Push as previously reported. Rescuers briefly pulled him out of the crevice using a pulley system and ropes tied to his feet, but he slipped back in after an anchor broke free of the cave wall. The 137 people who tried to free Jones are physically and mentally exhausted after the 27-hour effort, and will be offered critical stress counseling, said Utah County sheriff's Sgt. Tom Hodgson. It isn't in our makeup to leave anything undone, he said. They still feel like there is work left to be done, that they didn't bring closure to the Jones family. He described the Herculean effort as the most difficult rescue he's worked on in 30 years. Jones' brother Josh said the family stands behind the crews, and are grateful for their efforts. There are some who feel like they failed our family, he said. We know they did their best. We want to thank them from the bottom of our hearts. John Valentine, a state senator and longtime search-and-rescue participant, said the crevice is simply too small, and the passage too winding, for anyone to crawl inside and pull him out without being at risk themselves. He is in an area that is really beyond the scope of what anyone can get into, he said. It's where the cave peters down to nothing. Jones entered the small passage as he and a group of family and friends fanned out to explore the cave. About 400 feet in, he found himself unable to move, stuck at a 70-degree angle with a good portion of his waist and torso pinched in an approximately 10-inch-wide space, Cannon said. His head was out and unsupported at one end, and his feet stuck out at the other end. After crews got him out of the crevice, they still would have had to pull him through the difficult stretch of cave behind him, which twisted and turned in 90-degree angles over uneven ground, Cannon said. But Jones fell again less than 30 minutes after he was unstuck. He wasn't injured in the fall, but started struggling to breathe about two hours later. He later fell silent after relaying messages to his
Re: [Texascavers] Fw: EMERGENCY
YOU GOTTA BE CAGEY IN THIS LAND OF HUCKSTERS! Too bad SO many people find out too late they've been duped! -WaV On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote: Charles, I want to make everybody aware of a method called clickjacking. It happened to the woman I teach the class with, but fortunately she realized that it was a scam before she gave out any information. Basically it involves someone scanning your bookmarks and overlaying the legit site with another message. She clicked on her bookmarked bank site and was told that she'd made an error with her password. She tried again same message, only this time it asked her some personal questions when she went to change her password. ALARM BELL!!! She logged out and went in via the url and everything went A-OK. She went back to her bookmarked site and by that time they had pulled back the overlay. I say memorize the url of any of your sites that have to do with your money. Louise From: wo...@justfamily.org Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:16:02 -0600 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fw: EMERGENCY To: power_lou...@hotmail.com CC: texascavers@texascavers.com That's a good point, following a link in email is a very bad idea, they can be deceiving. Type in the name of the url yourself, or google for the company name, bookmark that and use it. Charles On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote: Just a word of caution, also beware of what looks like a reputable site. I help teach a class on credit card security for our agency and you'd be surprised how real some of the sites look. If you don't have any past dealings with a company, BEWARE. From: wo...@justfamily.org Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:07:52 -0600 To: lkpa...@sbcglobal.net CC: gonza...@msu.edu; Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fw: EMERGENCY There is a lesson to be learned in all of this, use secure passwords, keep an active virus scanner on your computer, a firewall and spyware/malware scanners are good as well. Also, don't open attachments and be wary of websites that are not from reputable companies. Not using windows is another good way, but I know everyone doesn't want to get a Mac or learn Linux :) Charles On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Linda Palit lkpa...@sbcglobal.net wrote: And Monica was upset about the scam, and is using a different email now. Would love to deck with the guy who did this to our friends. -Original Message- From: Fofo [mailto:gonza...@msu.edu] Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:30 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fw: EMERGENCY I actually wonder if someone joins e-mail lists and gets a feel for some people, finds their activity, etc (looking for someone who doesn't post much). I got an e-mail from Monica Ponce saying that she's in the UK, was mugged at gun-point and now needs £1,750.00 -- more expensive than Mark's! And the e-mail was in Spanish (really bad Spanish, actually, probably a Babelfish translation). Monica doesn't post much on TexasCavers, but she does on Facebook, so there were no doubts about this e-mail being a scam as soon as I read it: Espero que recibe en este tiempo? Lo sentimos, no me han informado acerca de mi viaje en el Reino Unido para un programa, estoy actualmente en Londres y estoy teniendo algunas dificultades aquí, porque me asaltaron a punta de pistola ... ni siquiera pueden escribir en dialecto nativo muy bien como todos los sistemas que aquí se ha configurado. ... The gerente del hotel no me deja salir hasta que pagar las cuentas del hotel ... Me gustaría que me ayude con un préstamo de £ 1,750.00 I felt like creating a dummy e-mail account and replying, reassuring of my willingness to help but peppering the e-mail with personal questions, just to see what happens and then posting the whole thing here, but that would need more time than I have now. - Fofo John Greer wrote, on 20/11/09 17:48: Here we go again. This scam has been around for a while, going to various lists, from various persons. I assume somebody hacks into master distribution lists. John Greer - Original Message - *From:* mark gee mailto:markageetxca...@yahoo.com *To:* markageetxca...@yahoo.com mailto:markageetxca...@yahoo.com *Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2009 6:24 PM *Subject:* EMERGENCY Hope you get this on time ? Sorry I didn't inform you about my trip to the United Kingdom, I'm presently in Scotland and am having some difficulties here.I misplaced my bag on my way to the hotel where other valuable things were kept including my passport. I will like you to assist me with a loan of $1,750 to sort-out my hotel bills and to get myself back
Re: [Texascavers] KXAN's Jim Swift in Antioch Cave
Well, that sounds like a pretty good deal too! (That being said - the current conditions of Antioch are probably a bit wet right now...) -WaV On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jules Jenkins julesje...@yahoo.com wrote: no, but you can get a pro bono job and great thanks for helping the aquifer and get to go caving! j --- On *Fri, 11/20/09, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] KXAN's Jim Swift in Antioch Cave To: Jules Jenkins julesje...@yahoo.com Cc: tex cave texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 2:05 AM could I get a payin part time job for moving those rocks around? -WaV On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Jules Jenkins julesje...@yahoo.comhttp://mc/compose?to=julesje...@yahoo.com wrote: fyi- it is what it is.. http://www.kxan.com/dpp/weather/scientists-unveil-new-cave-entrance
Re: [Texascavers] KXAN's Jim Swift in Antioch Cave
could I get a payin part time job for moving those rocks around? -WaV On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Jules Jenkins julesje...@yahoo.com wrote: fyi- it is what it is.. http://www.kxan.com/dpp/weather/scientists-unveil-new-cave-entrance
Re: [Texascavers] The ant cave
I've seen the result of molten aluminum poured into ant colonies as well. Very cool looking, BUT AT WHAT COST?! -WaV On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: Here is a giant ant bed that they poured concrete into and then excavated it. It's truly worth looking at: http://www.break.com/index/giant-ant-colony-is-a-world-wonder.html --Ediger
Re: [Texascavers] Punkin in the news
I, too, discovered an article on DP in Bexar Tracks by the Bexar Audubon Society yesterday on the table at my Mom's house. It was excerpted from a letter by Geary Schindel. On Nov 1, 2009, at 10:05 AM, Ron Ralph wrote: Cavers, There is an article about caving Punkin and Deep in the last issue of the Nittany Grotto News, Vol. 55 No. 2. The article can be accessed via the internet by going to www.caves.org/grotto/nittany and following the links. Use the following user name and password: “guest” and “exchange” The color photos are nice and the cave report informative. You wall also find other articles about the ICS and a photo of Jack Stellmack for you old-timers. You may also be amazed at the list of members who include 3 Texicans. The Texas Speleological Survey has copies of back issues of this newsletter plus a hundred more if you care to visit the office in Austin. Ron
Re: [Texascavers] lunar lava tubes
I can just see the front page of the national inquirer: *Lunar Base Discovered.* -DC On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Marvin Lisa mlmil...@gvtc.com wrote: *First Moon Skylight Found -- Could House Lunar Base?* http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/10/091026-moon-skylight-lunar-base.html
Re: [Texascavers] Re: lunar lava tubes
I take it the nature of the Rilles is still a riddle? I wonder if perhaps they are collapsed lava tubes. -WaV On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote: http://dsc.discovery.com/space/qa/lunar-moon-skylight-carolyn-van-der-bogert.html http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/10/091026-moon-skylight-lunar-base.html Did anyone else notice that they claim the lava tube associated with that skylight should be at least 370 meters wide?! That would be an unprecedentedly large lave tube. I wonder how they think they can calculate a width for the tube based on only the width and depth of the skylight, which are far smaller. I don't believe it for a minute. Mark Minton You may reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] photography related - cameras in the news
I noticed this when I got my first multi-megapixel camera... It actually seemed to have better picture quality at LOWER resolutions... -WaV On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Michael Pugliese m...@mpphoto.ws wrote: 12 Megapixels means nothing if you're using a 3mm Bayer CMOS with a terrible signal to noise ratio. The photos will still look like really nasty. When will this stupid megapixel myth die? -- _ Michael Pugliese Director of Photography www.MPCINE.com 570.898.3011 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] [Fwd: Cave Dog}
http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/vid/15492436
Re: [Texascavers] Bear Man drops into Big Bend Ranch State Park
He probably had to get special permission from the department of homeland security to make his signature parachute drop into a national park. Though I find his showboating un-necessary - having done it myself - arriving anywhere by parachute is pretty cool. -WaV On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:34 PM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote: *Wednesday September 9, 2009 8 or 9 PM* I don't know if he starts in the Solitario or where, or if he finds the rock art at Shelter Thrust, which waterfall he visits, or if he traverses the Lower Shutup and is almost bit by a rattlesnake. Maybe he will contrive to rappel past the big windows on the west side off Solitario Peak which look in to Fresno Canyon. That might make it sorta cave related. I guess I'll have a look. 8 PM in Denver. Advertised as 9PM elsewhere. A repeat from last week, in case you missed it (we did). DirtDoc
Re: [Texascavers] Totally non caving related
??? Don's iPhone. On Sep 2, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Matt Turner kat...@yahoo.com wrote: People, don't you think this e-bullying has gone on long enough? Frankly, while I wasn't annoyed by the initial issue I'm starting to get really annoyed by this. Yes we get that you didn't like someone's post...you've made that more clear than my ADHD 8yr old nephew make a point, so can we stop now and move on? Nobody who was complaining was purposefully trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but yall are now trying to hurt theirs. Can we stop with the childish remarks? If this is a campfire, at this point I'm getting ready to walk away from it as it's getting annoying and sounding more like a cub scout campfire than anything else. Isn't that the point of the off topic list? Matt Turner It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that.- Norman Vincent Peale From: germa...@aol.com germa...@aol.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 4:47:02 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Totally non caving related (I think I'm over 100 words) 295, but the joke at the end made it worth reading ;-) -Original Message- From: Geary Schindel gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org To: Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu; Ron Miller rons...@yahoo.com Cc: Katy Roodenko katy...@yahoo.com; texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 4:07 pm Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Totally non caving related Diana and others, I can't agree more, Multi Drug Resistant TB is serious stuff and I knew that S.A. and the Rio Grande Valley are in the thick of the fight. Very interesting article, something I've been following in the press for a number of years. There is also an excellent book called Mountains beyond Mountains which discusses the TB issue along with health care issues in developing countries, places where cavers frequent (my tie in to caving and making this a relevant topic for Texas Cavers). An individuals can place the population at great risk. Most of us don't remember that a simple infection before the 1940's could be a death sentence but with the advent of modern antibiotics, folks dying of common infections became a thing of the past. Most of the folks jailed with infectious diseases. The over prescription of antibiotics to treat every runny nose and the self medication with antibiotics available over the counter in many countries has resulted in the effective loss of many antibiotics. I'm not afraid of Ebola but of MDR TB, Diphtheria, Whooping Cough, and some of the other diseases which were real killers 60 years ago. MDR TB is an excellent example of evolution which reminds me of my favorite Opus Cartoon which has the old man in the doctor's office being examined. The Dr. tells the old man that he has TB and the man asks him what they could do about that. The doctor said, that depends on whether you believe in creation or evolution. If you believe in creation, we'll treat you with the old antibiotics and you'll die. If you believe in evolution, we'll treat you with the new antibiotics the bacterium hasn't evolved resistance too, and you'll live. LOL Geary (I think I'm over 100 words) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Amish Texas Cavers
It HAD TO be Gill with his 'imitation oatmeal box' look. Its hard work and sacrifice Living in an amish paradise -WaV On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:07 PM, mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com wrote: I wore a hat , that made me Amish??? -- *From:* Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com *To:* Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:03:42 PM *Subject:* [Texascavers] Amish Texas Cavers My elderly parents in Missouri scheduled a family showing of Joe Datri's Texas Cavers movie last night. Everyone loved the film but my mom expressed surprise at how many Amish cavers there are in Texas.
Re: [Texascavers] Big-Brother related
I figure if you re-constitute zeros and ones on my computer with enough permutations, you can make up just about anything including 9/11 plans and blueprints for thermonuke devices. I am all FOR encryption. If its MY bizness, then it should STAY my business. As far as probing things I've thought about and not done - well that is MINE ALONE. Stay out of my HEAD - FEDS! And as far as tracking my relative position between cell phone towers - How else can I receive a phone call when I'm out and about? But yeah - thanks for reminding me, Bill - I should always remember to always turn it off when I'm out there committing crimes! -WaV On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: Surely the authority of the customs people to inspect vessels or vehicles applies only to those that have been outside the United States? Anyway, there was an amusing thing in the news a few months ago. Some guy came into the US from Canada and somehow the customs people learned that there was kiddy porn on his laptop computer and arrested him. However, the files were encrypted, and even the feds were unable to break the encryption and prove it. Courts ruled that the defendent could not be required to give up the key to the code. (I suspect this might have been a deliberate test case, with the offending image deliberately out where the customs inspector would see it.) Drive them crazy. Get PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and encrypt lots of perfectly innocent stuff on your computer. Don't use some wimpy encryption facility that comes with your operating system; it is probably not NSA-proof. (Actually, of course, unless you deliberately do something to make them suspicious--not recommended--, it is extremely unlikely that they'll ever check.) It would be really nice if it was easy and convenient to encrypt everything, including all voice communications. But almost nobody really cares about his privacy. Witness all those people who travel around with their cell phones turned on, making it possible to track them in real time. --Mixon A fearless man cannot be brave. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] delete button
I just enjoy hearing from fellow Cavers. I reiterate my opinion that Texascavers is like a virtual campfire, I listen to what I want, ignore the rest, be polite, make friends, voice my goofy opinions, drink my swill pee out in the dark bushes. Don's iPhone. On Aug 27, 2009, at 10:31 AM, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu wrote: Hi! I use Mozilla's Thunderbird both in the office and my laptop. I know, it's a throwback, now that everything is online, but you can set it up to pretty much do whatever you want: leave messages on server, delete messages from server, delete only the ones that you delete, have messages delivered directly to specific folders, group messages by thread, etc. It has a pretty decent junk mail filter, and setting it up is easy. Even in slow connections, usually I don't even notice when messages are downloaded (unless it's the first time of the day and there are several big files to download, and for really bad connections you can put a limit on the size of files to download). I always have the preview panel on, and it literally often takes less than one second to read a message (especially short replies), delete them and move on to the next one. OK, 162 words. Clear to go! - Fofo Mixon Bill wrote: I have a delete button like everybody else, but it nevertheless takes a while to delete forty new Texas Cavers list messages that are ten words each. And those worthless little Me either messages must be a real pain to those who monitor their e-mail messages frequently or are pestered by their cell phones every time one arrives. At least I see my e-mail only when I tell my computer to fetch it. If you don't have at least a couple of complete sentences of new and interesting material to add, how about not replying, or replying only to the original sender? How about a 100-word minimum? (This message is one hundred seventeen words.)-- Mixon - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] [For Garmin Owning Mexico Cavers] [FYI]
http://www.bicimapas.com.mx/MexicGPSAtlasEn.htm I have this and am glad I do. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] delete button
Well Look at it this way, ok? Mr. Mixon is not asking to bring on an edict, he's just asking us all to be considerate of the elements he pointed out. I don't think that's unreasonable. Ok this is a short reply, but I think it says enough, besides I'm not sending it to everyone on list either. -DC On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote: Well Bill, not everyone writes a dissertation when sending an email, and email really isn't a good medium for long exchanges, since there is very little to no inflection. While replying with just a LOL or Me Too is annoying to some people I guess, most of those people don't say much anyway. It's not like we have a stats page that shows postings versus words per email. And no, I don't plan to set one up either, I'm too lazy for that :p I wouldn't worry about it too much Bill, just keep using that delete button like most people. Charles list administrator that is crawling back into his hole in the wonderful DFW metroplex On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Mixon Billbmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: I have a delete button like everybody else, but it nevertheless takes a while to delete forty new Texas Cavers list messages that are ten words each. And those worthless little Me either messages must be a real pain to those who monitor their e-mail messages frequently or are pestered by their cell phones every time one arrives. At least I see my e-mail only when I tell my computer to fetch it. If you don't have at least a couple of complete sentences of new and interesting material to add, how about not replying, or replying only to the original sender? How about a 100-word minimum? (This message is one hundred seventeen words.)-- Mixon To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] battery related
Lithium Ion is probably the superior in terms of power to weight. Nickel Metal hydride is cheaper, but quite superior to older batteries like NiCad and Lead Acid. (Lead Acid though can support millions of charge/discharge cycles - I don't think any other battery can compete in that parameter, except maybe fuel cells) Correct me if I'm wrong. -WaV On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:45 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: This is probably old news, but I just found out about it. Energizer's patent on lithium batteries expired a year ago. About that time, there was some post about a new Energizer lithium battery being marketed with less juice and a little cheaper.
Fwd: [Texascavers] battery related
-- Forwarded message -- From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] battery related To: Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca Cc: David dlocklea...@gmail.com And of course, please note - Lithium does NOT imply Lithium-Ion. Lithium Ion also should incorporate either the direct connection to, or have a built in micro-controller to regulate charge and discharge, since Lithium Ion cells can generate enough heat to self-ignite. -WaV On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: Don Cooper wrote: Lithium Ion is probably the superior in terms of power to weight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery#cite_note-7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:45 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com mailto: dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: This is probably old news, but I just found out about it. Energizer's patent on lithium batteries expired a year ago. About that time, there was some post about a new Energizer lithium battery being marketed with less juice and a little cheaper. -- Lyndon Tiu
Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)
Nay, but following Occam's Razor - If it smells of 'B.S.' - it probably IS some form of 'S.'... -WaV On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:39 AM, speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote: From TagNet this morning: c Man vs. Wild By: Karl Niles (Bowling Green, Kentucky) Caught an episode of Man vs. Wild Wednesday night. Bear Grylls (host) got dropped off by chopper in a remote area of Alabama.
Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)
Read Bears disclaimer at the start of the show. Kinda kills the whole thing. Recently, he tried to trap a caribou, when he failed, the land steward provided one for him. He promptly lost most of the meat doing something foolish, like climbing down a frozen waterfall. He is a strong, well trained and knowledgable, but also a showman. He did an episode with Will Ferrel, what does that tell you. His shows are entertaining, like a circus. Don's iPhone. On Aug 21, 2009, at 12:51 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: I lost interest in this guy and his show when I repeatedly saw him doing things that were either unnecessary, dangerous, or just plain stupid. Then, fraud and hoaxes were introduced. Read below: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242007/news/nationalnews/grylls_thrills_bogus__expert_nationalnews_don_kaplan.htm If you want to see the real deal, watch Les Stroud on Survivorman. No camera crew, no cushy digs, and he films EVERYTHING himself. Sets up the shot, starts the camera, walks off a quarter mile or around or threw a lake, and has to go back and fetch the camera. What a beating. But, a great show! They are all now in reruns, as he has retired from the show. Later, Mark From: Fofo [mailto:gonza...@msu.edu] Sent: Fri 8/21/2009 12:23 PM To: texascavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat) Sounds like another episode I saw, where he got into a mine with a torch that he dipped in kerosene. He went deeper, downclimbed a shaft, _then_ his torch went out (and I thought, In real life, that would pretty much be 'game over') and he said how dangerous the whole thing was and he kept walking (in total darkness, recorder in IR), following the wall, until he found the exit. I stopped believing the whole thing one time when he did a rappel, he tied one end of the rope, threw the rest down and descended -- and later, he had the whole rope again with him! Uh, yeah, right... - Fofo Don Cooper wrote, on 21/8/09 9:48: Nay, but following Occam's Razor - If it smells of 'B.S.' - it probably IS some form of 'S.'... -WaV On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:39 AM, speleoste...@tx.rr.com mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote: From TagNet this morning: c Man vs. Wild By: Karl Niles (Bowling Green, Kentucky) Caught an episode of Man vs. Wild Wednesday night. Bear Grylls (host) got dropped off by chopper in a remote area of Alabama. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)
He has a all new season, these are all new. Don's iPhone. They are all now in reruns, as he has retired from the show. Later, Mark
Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)
Bear has a crew. Les is alone. Les' show was called Survivorman. Bear's is Man vs Wild. Don's iPhone. On Aug 21, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: Is this the guy that claims to be doing his own photography, sound, and all that? If so, I've seen a few bits of it and don't buy into it 100%. My guess is that he's never alone--always got somebody standing by to lend a hand, offer a suggestion, keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn't screw something up and die. Most of those sort of adventure shows will have a film/support crew of at least 2 or 3 traipsing along with um. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Bat house collapses in Florida
(Little Bat Pieces...) On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote: RIP On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Jim Kennedy jkenn...@batcon.org wrote: No, but at least 100 of them had to go to the bat morgue. *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Gill Edigar *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:26 AM *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com *Subject:* [Texascavers] Fwd: Bat house collapses in Florida
Re: [Texascavers] FW: Only one word...
I have some Christy video taken in the canyon during a trip to Bustamonte - I'll be transferring it soon to digital and will post it on my facebook account. -WaV On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:58 PM, germa...@aol.com wrote: WOW, Denise. That email gave me chills. She was WONDERFUL. I can't believe it's been 10 years. I remember the memorial like it was yesterday. Thank you for the reminder. julia -Original Message- From: Denise P pepabe...@hotmail.com To: TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 12:59 pm Subject: [Texascavers] FW: Only one word... This month marks the 10th year of losing Christy Quintana in a caving accident in San Luis Potosi. I only knew her a year, but she was truly unforgettable. So charismatic. I keep this last email from her in my email inbox. Sniff, Denise From: christinequint...@hotmail.com To: pepabe...@hotmail.com Subject: Only one word... Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:37:39 -0500 GOLANDRINAS!! That is the word that I have for you both! Yep... I am going to go down Golandrinas!! Can you believe it? Of course, the real problem will be going up! Anyway, that will probably be on Saturday!! I will think of you both! It is really great here!! Everyone is really nice, of course that may be because I do not understand half the time!! No, not really. Unfortunately, I do not have too much access to the computer to write more often. So sad because I know you both miss me terribly!! RIGHT??? I hope that Colorado has been wonderful. Apesta is a new word that I learned...it means to stink, or from what I hear, is a synonym for Dale Barnard. By the way, one thing that I forgot to bring here...A jacket!! SO ha ha on your cold Colorado. Not only is it cold here but everyone speaks Spanish and there are caves!! I´ll try to write soon!! Miss you all!! Tell Amie and the crew hello!! Christy ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com -- Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009=
Re: [Texascavers] ICS follow-up
I understand that Justin Shaw got a badly infected insect bite requiring medical attention. Staying away from those swim trips and remaining in close proximity to a damn yankee through most of the convention - I remain, thankfully, healthy. Same for almost all of my bunkmates, 'cept for Yazmine's runny nose (she never really got sick). . -WaV On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:25 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: I had 2 tiny scrapes on my skin that became infected after swimming in the Guadalupe River. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS Related
Charles - do you have an option to take leave (unpaid time off) rather than vacation? If not - would you have made that choice instead? -DC On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.orgwrote: The same for me Denise, but I took off 7 days out of my 10 that I get a year (2 weeks = 10 working days) of vacation, so it was a big sacrifice for me as well. It was a paid vacation, but I get so little of it... Very painful On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Denise Ppepabe...@hotmail.com wrote: I did not forsake pay, but as vacation time is more precious to me than money (I'd take time off without pay if I could), I'd say donating 1/3 of my annual vacation time to ICS was no small deal to me. Painful in fact... -Denise Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 03:54:49 -0500 From: wavyca...@gmail.com To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] ICS Related I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off of their jobs with no vacation compensation (they forsake income) to attend ICS? Unemployment does not count. -WaV - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS Related
Live to work Or Work to live. Don's iPhone. On Aug 2, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Nancy Weaver nan...@io.com wrote: Vacation is more precious than money Many places will not let one take time off without pay. Maybe the question is - whose life is this anyway and what am I willing to trade for it? Nnacy
Re: [ot_caving] Life
Good one, Bill! I hope you have a happy birthday!!! -wAv On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net wrote: Next month I will be 50 years old. About 5 years ago I had the opportunity to finally get to ride a horse. This would become a near death experience that has changed me forever. My horse riding experience was going great I really thought that horseback riding was not so hard and that I didn't see what the fuss was about and as everything was going fine until all at once for no reason the danged horse starts bouncing out of control. He was bucking like bronco in the pro rodeo show. I tried with all my might to hang on, but eventually was thrown off. Just when things could not possibly get worse, my foot gets caught in the stirrup. When this happened, I fell head first to the ground.My head continued to bounce harder as the horse did not stop or even slow down. Just as I was giving up hope and starting to lose consciousness, the Wal-Mart manager came out and unplugged it. Thank God for heroes. o...@texascavers.com - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
I believe it! You can TRUST the Man O' Steele at his word!
(Oh, and where did you want me to ship those lead bars to, Bill?)
-WaV
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:43 AM, speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote:
Ok, all y'all can relax now. I've quit rocking packs. The pinnacle of my
rockin' career was Frank Binney
last week and James Brown this week. I'm going to quit now. So, you don't
need to guard your packs. Don't
practice rock paranoia in other words.
Bill
Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
I dunno if he found it or not, he didn't say anything.
I'm making a mental note, never to leave any bags unattended around Mr.
Steele.
Charles
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:30 PM, speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote:
Ok, I'll do it. I rocked James Brown last night at the grotto meeting.
I even told him I was going to. I placed two decoy rocks and a well hidden
rock in a pack he had left at our house. He probably found the decoys and
didn't look hard enough to find the third one. Tee hee.
Bill
mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com wrote:
I to have been Stoned by Steele. I wander who holds the record for ,
most people they have rocked. A story needs to be writen for the Caver. Bill
, why dont you tell us of your rocky memories. Puns Excepted
From: germa...@aol.com germa...@aol.com
To: jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net; wo...@justfamily.org;
fr...@frankbinney.com; fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:44:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
He's not the only one who does this! I've been a victim as well, but
since I collect rocks, it really wasn't a bad thing!
julia
-Original Message-
From: John P Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net
To: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org; Frank Binney
fr...@frankbinney.com; Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:39 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
LOL..Lesson learned once againNEVER LEAVE your back pack ALONE
with Bill Steele for even a NANO-SECONDor you WILL end up with a rock in
your pack.
Thats like one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS of CAVING Thou shalt not
trusteth thine pack to the Man O Steele...
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote:
From: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
To: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org, Frank Binney
fr...@frankbinney.com
Cc: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
Bill Steele has told similar stories and is famous for this. You were
just one of the fortunate recipients.
Fritz
-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:34 AM
To: Frank Binney
Cc: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
And how long have you known Bill? Caved with him?
Really cool story about the Grand Canyon and your pack though.
Charles
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Frank Binneyfr...@frankbinney.com
wrote:
On 7/29/09 8:46 PM, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org
wrote:
So Frank, what's this I hear about you and your extra big backpack?
Actually I had two amazing backpack experiences at ICS:
1) Back in the early 1970s I visited a multiple entrance cave in the
Grand Canyon. Technical climbing was required to reach the entrances,
and wetsuits were required to negotiate the stream passage deeper
inside the cave (which, by the way, had been mapped by Rune and other
Texas cavers back in the 1960s).
We entered by way of a dry upper entrance, where I stashed the
brand-new expensive backpack I had used to transport the wetsuits,
rope and climbing gear. Twelve hours later, exhausted from pushing
tight leads deep in the cave, we decided to save time by rappelling
down to the Colorado River by way of a lower, wet entrance. As dawn
light began to illuminate the Grand Canyon, we pushed off down stream
in our oar raft and it was shortly thereafter I realized my expensive
new backpack remained in that upper entrance.
Over the next 35 years, especially when I passed below those cave
entrances on numerous Grand Canyon raft trips, I wondered what might
have happened to that pack.
So imagine my surprise at the ICS banquet when Bob and Debbie Buecher
came over and asked if I was missing a backpack. A few years ago Bob
was at that particular entrance and noticed a dusty pack stashed on a
ledge. He's got it at his home in Tucson and plans to reunite me with
it.
2) My other ICS amazing backpack story concerns the charity of my
good
friend Bill Steele.
[Texascavers] ICS Related
I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off of their jobs with no vacation compensation (they forsake income) to attend ICS? Unemployment does not count. -WaV
[Texascavers] Re: ICS Related
Um - bad syntax... I meant (they had to forsake income) to attend... On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com wrote: I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off of their jobs with no vacation compensation (they forsake income) to attend ICS? Unemployment does not count. -WaV
Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
He's not the only pack rocker out there.
On Jul 31, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Nico Escamilla wrote:
Bill's just bluffing.. Do not leave your pack unattended near him
Nico
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Yeah, right. Does anybody really believe this?
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:43:09 -0400
From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com
To: wo...@justfamily.org
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com; jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net; markageetxca...@yahoo.com
; fh...@townandcountryins.com; fr...@frankbinney.com; germa...@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
Ok, all y'all can relax now. I've quit rocking packs. The pinnacle
of my rockin' career was Frank Binney
last week and James Brown this week. I'm going to quit now. So,
you don't need to guard your packs. Don't
practice rock paranoia in other words.
Bill
Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
I dunno if he found it or not, he didn't say anything.
I'm making a mental note, never to leave any bags unattended
around Mr. Steele.
Charles
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:30 PM, speleoste...@tx.rr.com wrote:
Ok, I'll do it. I rocked James Brown last night at the grotto
meeting. I even told him I was going to. I placed two decoy rocks
and a well hidden rock in a pack he had left at our house. He
probably found the decoys and didn't look hard enough to find the
third one. Tee hee.
Bill
mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com wrote:
I to have been Stoned by Steele. I wander who holds the
record for , most people they have rocked. A story needs to be
writen for the Caver. Bill , why dont you tell us of your rocky
memories. Puns Excepted
From: germa...@aol.com germa...@aol.com
To: jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net; wo...@justfamily.org; fr...@frankbinney.com
; fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:44:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
He's not the only one who does this! I've been a victim as
well, but since I collect rocks, it really wasn't a bad thing!
julia
-Original Message-
From: John P Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net
To: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org; Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com
; Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:39 pm
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
LOL..Lesson learned once againNEVER LEAVE your back
pack ALONE with Bill Steele for even a NANO-SECONDor you WILL
end up with a rock in your pack.
Thats like one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS of CAVING Thou
shalt not trusteth thine pack to the Man O Steele...
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
wrote:
From: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
To: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org, Frank Binney
fr...@frankbinney.com
Cc: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
Bill Steele has told similar stories and is famous for this.
You were just one of the fortunate recipients.
Fritz
-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:34 AM
To: Frank Binney
Cc: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
And how long have you known Bill? Caved with him?
Really cool story about the Grand Canyon and your pack though.
Charles
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Frank Binneyfr...@frankbinney.com
wrote:
On 7/29/09 8:46 PM, Charles Goldsmith
wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
So Frank, what's this I hear about you and your extra big
backpack?
Actually I had two amazing backpack experiences at ICS:
1) Back in the early 1970s I visited a multiple entrance
cave in the
Grand Canyon. Technical climbing was required to reach the
entrances,
and wetsuits were required to negotiate the stream passage
deeper
inside the cave (which, by the way, had been mapped by Rune
and other
Texas cavers back in the 1960s).
We entered by way of a dry upper entrance, where I stashed the
brand-new expensive backpack I had used to transport the
wetsuits,
rope and climbing gear. Twelve hours later, exhausted from
pushing
tight leads deep in the cave, we decided to save time by
rappelling
down to the Colorado River by way of a lower, wet entrance.
As dawn
light began to illuminate the Grand Canyon, we pushed off
down stream
in our oar raft and it was shortly thereafter I realized my
expensive
new backpack remained in that upper entrance.
Over the next 35 years, especially when I passed below those
cave
entrances on
Re: [Texascavers] New sinkhole collapse in west Texas :
That's kindof like saying we don't know what caused this grassfire - incidentally, there's a kid over there playing with matches. -WaV On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net wrote: This story has has been covered by all 3 of the local network news. I find it most interesting when they say Experts don't know why this happens and in the finishing sentence of the news story they comment on how it is near an injection well. Bill - Original Message - *From:* jerryat...@aol.com *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com *Sent:* Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:43 AM *Subject:* [Texascavers] New sinkhole collapse in west Texas : *Giant Sinkhole Collapses Near Denver City *Eddie Garcia CBS 7 News July 28, 2009 Denver City, Texas - A giant geographical phenomenon has opened up just two miles northeast of Denver City. The enormous sink hole opened up just last night and is on Occidental Permian Inc. property. Company officials would not allow us near the site but did provide us with aerial photos. It is a sinkhole 70 yards long almost 70 yards wide and about 50 feet deep. Permian Occidental says all the wells in the area have been shut-in as a precaution. So far no injuries are being reported or any impacts outside the immediate vicinity of the hole. Local and state authorities have been notified and are now working with Occidental crews. Right now an independent fire and safety company is on location and the entire area is secured. http://www.cbs7kosa.com/news/details.asp?ID=14003 Video of the sink at: http://permianbasin360.com/content/fulltext/?cid=47132 *State probing new area sinkhole* By Joshua Hull | AVALANCHE-JOURNAL *Thursday, July 30, 2009* Story last updated at 7/30/2009 - 1:31 am State officials are investigating what caused a large sinkhole to suddenly appear earlier this week in an oil field near Denver City. The sinkhole, measured at 76 feet by 70 feet and 48 feet deep, was discovered by a worker late Monday on oil and gas land owned by Occidental Permian Limited, said Stacie Fowler with the Texas Railroad Commission. No one was injured when the ground collapsed, and one well of 1,750 at the field was damaged by the collapse, Fowler said. Some wells in the vicinity have been temporarily shut down. We make sure more damage doesn't happen as best we can, she said, adding no cause has yet been determined. Sinkholes are a more common occurrence in East Texas and can be caused by several different factors, said Mike Turco, chief of the Gulf Coast Office for the U.S. Geological Survey. Oil and gas operations are known to cause sinkholes, Turco said, which might explain the unusual location of the collapse less than a mile east of Denver City. During normal times, there is a fluid or a substance holding up whatever is above, he said. If that is extracted the pressure is reduced and there can be a surface feature after a collapse. Much larger sinkholes appeared in the early 1980s near Wink - about 100 miles southwest of Denver City - also near oil and gas operations. Sinkholes have to be treated with care, Turco said, as each case is different from the next. While all features share some similarities, there's no way to tell whether the collapse will expand without further examination. It depends on what the rocks are underneath the sinkhole and what caused the sinkhole, he said. Typically, once they express themselves after their initial expansion they don't get much larger. http://lubbockonline.com/stories/073009/loc_472749121.shtml Lubbock Avalanche-Journal Giant Denver City sinkhole collapses *Posted: Jul 29, 2009 9:26 AM CDT **Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:26 AM EST* DENVER CITY, TX (KCBD) - A giant sinkhole has been discovered just outside of Denver City, Texas. According to Occidental Permian Ltd., at approximately 11:00 p.m. on Monday, July 27th, the sinkhole was discovered 2 miles northeast of Denver City, on Occidental property. An independent fire and safety company is on location and the area is secured. Wells in the area have been shut-in as a precaution. The sinkhole is approximately 70 yards long, 67 yards wide and 16 yards deep. Occidental personnel reports that there are no injuries to employees, and no injuries or other impacts outside the immediate vicinity around the hole. Oxy has notified the appropriate local and state authorities, and will continue to cooperate fully with them. NewsChannel 11 will be following this story and will bring you any updates as they become available. http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=10810491 -- Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to Schoolhttp://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223105306x1201716871/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D9
Re: [Texascavers] lost item at loud camp
I think we need a scapegoat. That would be the individual who crashed the event without registering and bragged about it. Passed out drunk in the hot tub area, he threw beer on Michelle and Ellie when they tried to help him. He stole Ara's (Lady from New Mexico) badge and wouldn't be surprising if that's also what happened to other assorted items. -WaV On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.comwrote: Nah, it was probably a goose, a chicken or duck would have been too small to cart it away. On a more serious note, what happened to all the stuff in Lost Found? My MSR camping stove went walkies from outside my tent in the loud camp over Saturday night, perhaps it ended up there… Cheers, Stefan *From:* Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:30 AM *To:* David Locklear; Texas Cavers *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] lost item at loud camp David said: some fowl play might have been involved. Do you think a chicken or a duck stole your mattress pad? Jokingly, Louise -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
Re: [Texascavers] Photo Box Project
Ernie - Are you interested in getting copies of pics made by those of us who took our own? -WaV On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Ernest Garza txwo...@texas.net wrote: The decision to take the box to ICS was a good one. Many folks used it to make their own pictures, I shot a bunch more. Thanks to all who posed. The highlight was doing a photo of Jeanne Gurnee in the box. Also Vance and Marjorie Nelson--she is Bill Stevenson's daughter; he was one of the founding members of the NSS, and had a low number-#3. Dave Bunnell and I shot some stunning night pictures--a whole new direction for the box photos. --Ernie Garza - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS
And great THANKS to Denise and Dale for which without we could not have done what needed to be done. You guys are the real HEROES!! Don's iPhone. On Jul 27, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Denise P pepabe...@hotmail.com wrote: Wow, what a great convention! I had a blast. It seemed to come together despite fears of chaos and terrible heat. I think everyone was impressed and had a wonderful time. Great job, George Veni! And I know there were tons of people who spent all their convention time volunteering, but I'd like to give a shout out to the transportation coordinators, Don Arburn and Ann Scott, and the caving trip coordinator, Travis Scott, as I personally observed their trials, travails, and round-the-clock hard work. And to the Terminal Syphons, who volunteered so much time and sounded especially great this year. Four hours of rocking without a break! Geat job folks Cheers, Denise Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Tr y it now.
Re: [Texascavers] What it TAKES -- You got it... ICS TEXAS!
Ann Scott and I are finally done! I love Texas Cavers! - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Logan Library clean-up report
David - I would have stayed, but I was on-schedule to take another van back to San Antonio. I think you're also part of the group doing the next run at 6:30p. -WaV On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:51 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: A small group of very hard-working people led by Rune Burnet cleaned the libary after ICS. His team included Susan Souby, Rene Sheilds, Gary Napper, Orion Knox, and Don Cooper. Others, including myself, chipped in. Kim Flieshman ? Dave Lester. The labor involved disassembling a giant wall made out of 2x4's and about 40 heavy sheets of 4x8 OSB board. All of this had to be hand-carried out to Burnet's trailer, because the libary did not have a loading dock. Eventually, enough volunteers showed up, but then we didn't have enough cordless drills to work efficiently. Meanwhile, Jim Kennedy worked to try to organize the maps and medals for the cavers to collect. After several hours of doing that solo, he eventually packed up and left. Also, in the background, the Shrewsbury's were packing up the artwork for the art salon. The UPS office was closed, so it was decided to entrust about $ 1 million dollars worth of artwork to me, and to put in my van in hopes that I would drop it off at a UPS store. ( I will post a story about that later. ) After loading all the heavy wood on the trailer, a Colorado caver showed up to buy it for the 2011 convention, so some of it had to be off-loaded onto his truck. It would have been convenient if he could have come by an hour sooner. Afterwards, only 4 cavers stayed to clean the libary: Orion Knox, Rene Shields and Susan Souby and myself. I walked the library and could not find anything else that could be done without the instruction of the campus personnel. The facility, in my opinion, is ready to open back up to public visitors. There are quite a few wood shavings in the carpet that the janitor will have fun vacuuming up. I am sure the librarian will have to re-arrange the furniture. But I don't see how they can complain about how cavers left their library. About 4 cavers are still using the internet, but other than that the building is empty. There is a box of art supplies ( Karen Veni ?? or Conrad Schriener ?? ) sitting on the back porch along with a tire to an offroad vehicle. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] I'd like to help....
Frustrating when you ARE one already. You can only do what you're doing while your doing it - you can't do it more than you already are!!! -WaV On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:05:16 -0500 mmay...@gmail.com wrote: ...EVERYONE helping out with ICS is INCREDIBLE and I'd knife-fight anyone to the death that would detract from their efforts We are nowhere near that. We need van drivers for cave trips. We need van drivers for the hotel shuttles. we need van drivers for the airport shuttles. We need van drivers for the evening events. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] [ICS] [Driver's Still Needed!]
https://webspace.utexas.edu/ascott65/www/icsdrivers.htm --- Don Arburn Transportation Coordinator 2009 15th Annual International Congress of Speleology NSS #56822RL Mobile #361-362-3677 donarb...@mac.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS
Volunteers get to say they did. I'm good with that. On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Jon wrote: So how much time should a volunteer put in to get a free pass? One day work? But want about those that have worked for a week? But then there is the person that did help that afternoon with all that tot-and-carry. shouldn't they also get a free pass? Or maybe if you are just an officer like a sec or president? Maybe it should be folks that put in a lot of hard work, or maybe not. maybe those that put in long hours and didn't sweat? It gets so hard to draw that line. I wouldn't want to point to one and say you pay and the other and say your free. We all pay but then some get to be called Volunteers. --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com wrote: From: Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] ICS To: Cc: Cavers, Texas Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 8:34 AM Everyone, just to make it clear and ease any unnecessary frustration, the volunteers that are using this special registration are only allowed to assist in leading trips, or whatever they have volunteered to do. They do not get to go to the parties, talks, and other events that the paying folk will get to enjoy. So don't feel like they are getting a free ride into the ICS, they are very limited on what they can do. They were given the registration to cover them under ICS insurance so that they could help us lead the trips. In fact, without these people, there would be half of the caving trips that we have offered. So if you pay the $15 and go caving, chances are that the trip you are on is ONLY possible because of some of these volunteers, so be thankful! They are playing a large role in the ICS that many of the paid people aren't willing or able to do. Travis Don Cooper wrote: Yeah, well maybe we should, but we're not. Perhaps I could have volunteered through the whole thing and not registered, but not with my head held high. Not when so many others HAVE paid essentially to work for free. -WaV On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: They should be registering--and paying. No free ride here, boy howdy. I don't think anyone is getting a free ride, they are helping the ICS but are NOT getting any of the benefits of a paid ICS registration (parties, free beer, banquets, etc.). We should be glad they are giving some of their time to help the ICS for free. FYI: I am registered (I paid my $200 back in Dec 2008) ... but I think volunteers should get a free ride. But that's totally my opinion. On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: Plus the many Texas cavers who are volunteering (cave trip leaders/van drivers/Aggies) but are not registering. They count too. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS
What golf cart? On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Joe Ranzau wrote: I'm doing it for the golf cart! On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com wrote: Volunteers get to say they did. I'm good with that. On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Jon wrote: So how much time should a volunteer put in to get a free pass? One day work? But want about those that have worked for a week? But then there is the person that did help that afternoon with all that tot-and-carry. shouldn't they also get a free pass? Or maybe if you are just an officer like a sec or president? Maybe it should be folks that put in a lot of hard work, or maybe not. maybe those that put in long hours and didn't sweat? It gets so hard to draw that line. I wouldn't want to point to one and say you pay and the other and say your free. We all pay but then some get to be called Volunteers. --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com wrote: From: Travis Scott tra...@oztotl.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] ICS To: Cc: Cavers, Texas Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 8:34 AM Everyone, just to make it clear and ease any unnecessary frustration, the volunteers that are using this special registration are only allowed to assist in leading trips, or whatever they have volunteered to do. They do not get to go to the parties, talks, and other events that the paying folk will get to enjoy. So don't feel like they are getting a free ride into the ICS, they are very limited on what they can do. They were given the registration to cover them under ICS insurance so that they could help us lead the trips. In fact, without these people, there would be half of the caving trips that we have offered. So if you pay the $15 and go caving, chances are that the trip you are on is ONLY possible because of some of these volunteers, so be thankful! They are playing a large role in the ICS that many of the paid people aren't willing or able to do. Travis Don Cooper wrote: Yeah, well maybe we should, but we're not. Perhaps I could have volunteered through the whole thing and not registered, but not with my head held high. Not when so many others HAVE paid essentially to work for free. -WaV On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: They should be registering--and paying. No free ride here, boy howdy. I don't think anyone is getting a free ride, they are helping the ICS but are NOT getting any of the benefits of a paid ICS registration (parties, free beer, banquets, etc.). We should be glad they are giving some of their time to help the ICS for free. FYI: I am registered (I paid my $200 back in Dec 2008) ... but I think volunteers should get a free ride. But that's totally my opinion. On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: Plus the many Texas cavers who are volunteering (cave trip leaders/van drivers/Aggies) but are not registering. They count too. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com -- Travis Scott 979.450.0103 Cell tra...@oztotl.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS
What Golf Cart? On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Lyndon Tiu wrote: Don Arburn wrote: Volunteers get to say they did. I'm good with that. I volunteered to pick up cute caver chicks. I could do that in the golf cart. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [ot_caving] Re: computer question
You can usually find one that advertises that it contains bearings. Buy that. Otherwise you'll get something that relies on a tiny plastic bushing - guaranteed to wear out in a full year of continuous operation. (NOT FOR SERVERS!) Most either have a two pin connector to plug directly into the mobo - others have a third pin which give the mobo a feedback pulse that allows indication of the fan's rpm. Alternately, some accessory fans have a 4 pin connector which fit inline with your hard drive power connector. =WaV On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Mike Flannigan mikef...@att.net wrote: Those fans need to be replaced ever so often. When they starting making noise, that is a good time to replace them. The cost is usually $6 - $18. It's best not to buy the cheap ones. I've never replaced one on the CPU, but I've replaced the one on the case 3-4 times. Usually I have to get out my soldering iron to get the job done. Mike On Sun, 12 Jul 2009, pitboun...@gmail.com wrote: All About a week ago I opened up my computer cabinet to blow some of the dirt that makes its way in, I put it back together and now everytime I start it the fan that pulls air out of the cpu starts spinning like crazy making a buzzing noise... checked on BIOS and supposedly the inside temperature of my computer is 91 celsius (thats nine below water boiling point) I dont know much about computers so I asked a friend, he said the temp sensor could be bad, but didnt know where that was located.. anybody have an idea as to where the temp sensor is, or what else could be causing this? thanks for any and all help Nico - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS
Yeah, well maybe we should, but we're not. Perhaps I could have volunteered through the whole thing and not registered, but not with my head held high. Not when so many others HAVE paid essentially to work for free. -WaV On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: They should be registering--and paying. No free ride here, boy howdy. I don't think anyone is getting a free ride, they are helping the ICS but are NOT getting any of the benefits of a paid ICS registration (parties, free beer, banquets, etc.). We should be glad they are giving some of their time to help the ICS for free. FYI: I am registered (I paid my $200 back in Dec 2008) ... but I think volunteers should get a free ride. But that's totally my opinion. On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca mailto: l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote: Plus the many Texas cavers who are volunteering (cave trip leaders/van drivers/Aggies) but are not registering. They count too. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] my cave
Wow. On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Mixon Bill wrote: I'll be looking for volunteers to help me with my erection. -- Mixon - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] my cave
See Alice. On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Nico Escamilla wrote: A certain blue pill can help with that better than volunteers I believe. hahaha sorry Bill, couldnt help it - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] [ICS] [Current Driver Schedule]
I need to fill the pink slots on the chart. Note that Event Nights - Thursday, Friday, Saturday- need the most drivers. Volunteer drivers on these nights will not miss anything by helping. If I don't get drivers, there's a decent chance you'll be grabbed, Press Gang style, and put in a driver's seat anyway. https://webspace.utexas.edu/ascott65/www/icsdrivers.htm Please pass this on to any other listserves you can, thanks! If you have already volunteered (kudos!) check the schedule for mistakes. Thanks again! --- Don Arburn Transportation Coordinator 2009 15th Annual International Congress of Speleology donarb...@mac.com NSS# 56822RL Mobile#361-362-3677
[Texascavers] [ICS] [Events]
O.K. Cavers, time to lend a hand. Time to show we work as a team. Time to show some Texas hospitality. During the ICS there are 3 functions, off campus, that we ALL want to attend, especially our wonderful guests. The Photo Salon, The ICS Banquet and the NSS Banquet. I have 32 fifteen passenger vans for these events. And they need drivers. I'm not asking anyone to miss these events, they won't begin until everyone is there. I'm AM asking you to take 14 guests with you, as you drive a van to these events. Four times. You need to have a valid Driver's license and be 25 years old, thats it! You don't even need to be registered for the ICS. Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings are going to wonderful events, BUT NOT WITHOUT YOUR HELP. Many of you are already overwhelmed by jobs they volunteered for, I completely understand. However I'm fairly certain everyone is going to attend these functions, and everyone needs to get there. So unless you want to stand in line on campus while I drive one van back and forth 114 times to take everyone to Air Hall or Cailloux Theater and Playhouse, you need to step up and help out. If you feel you can't help, please give George Veni, or any ICS OC staff, a call and explain yourself. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] ICS Driver Volunteers II
Who will step up and be an afternoon driver for the Hotel Shuttle for the week? Who will step up and help return vans on the 26th and 27th? Who will help drive a van, multiple times, to the Photo Salon and the banquets on Thursday, Friday and Saturday Evenings? Please? Thanks! --- Don Arburn Transportation Coordinator 2009 15th Annual International Congress of Speleology donarb...@mac.com NSS# 56822RL Mobile#361-362-3677 - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] ICS Driver Volunteers II
Yeah - how to do a killfile on gmail On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 7:39 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: I am just curious about what liability the volunteer faces when volunteering only to drive a rental vehicle from point A to B ? Are they legally responsible for the van in any way? What if they wreck?What if they are at fault ? What if another driver wrecks ? What if the van gets stolen ? What if the van gets pulled over by the police and one of the passengers says something to arise suspicion leading to the van being impounded ? Did I leave out anything ? - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Bats' Fountain of Youth
Gerald Weissmann, M.D., Editor-in-Chief of The FASEB Journal.(:) As it turns out, one of these bat species lives out its long life in Florida.*Since bats are rodents with wings *,... I am not confident this person really knows anything about bats. -WaV On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: Bats may hold the key to longer life. http://www.rdmag.com/ShowPR~PUBCODE~014~ACCT~140101~ISSUE~0907~RELTYPE~LST~PRODCODE~~PRODLETT~K.htmlhttp://www.rdmag.com/ShowPR%7EPUBCODE%7E014%7EACCT%7E140101%7EISSUE%7E0907%7ERELTYPE%7ELST%7EPRODCODE%7E%7EPRODLETT%7EK.html Mark Minton *Do bats hold the Fountain the Youth?* July 1, 2009 Scientists from Texas are batty over a new discovery which could lead to the single most important medical breakthrough in human history—significantly longer lifespans. The discovery, featured on the cover of the July 2009 print issue of The FASEB Journal shows that proper protein folding over time in long-lived bats explains why they live significantly longer than other mammals of comparable size, such as mice. Ultimately we are trying to discover what underlying mechanisms allow for some animal species to live a very long time with the hope that we might be able to develop therapies that allow people to age more slowly, said Asish Chaudhuri, Professor of Biochemistry, VA Medical Center, San Antonio, Texas and the senior researcher involved in the work. Asish and colleagues made their discovery by extracting proteins from the livers of two long-lived bat species (Tadarida brasiliensis and Myotis velifer) and young adult mice and exposed them to chemicals known to cause protein misfolding. After examining the proteins, the scientists found that the bat proteins exhibited less damage than those of the mice, indicating that bats have a mechanism for maintaining proper structure under extreme stress. Maybe Juan Ponce De León wasn't too far off the mark when he searched Florida for the Fountain of Youth, said Gerald Weissmann, M.D., Editor-in-Chief of The FASEB Journal. As it turns out, one of these bat species lives out its long life in Florida. Since bats are rodents with wings, this chemical clue as to why bats beat out mice in the aging game should point scientists to the source of this elusive fountain. Study Abstract http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/7/2317 SOURCE: Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] ICS Driver Volunteers
This email is to A) inform folks that Saturday July 18 is Van Pickup Day at Capps and Enterprise and B) request from drivers the times they can drive. I realize many of you have informed me of your requested volunteer times already, however many things have changed for some of you, and me as well. Please re-iterate and remind me of your desired driving times and dates. A) First is the Van Pickup Day. On Saturday July 18, 18 Vans will be picked up from Capps near the San Antonio Airport. 4 Vans are being picked up by other volunteers for their own use to move equipment to Kerrville and 3 vans are being picked up by San Antonio Airport Shuttle volunteers for use between the Airport and Kerrville for airport arrival guests. That leaves 11 Vans from Capps and 4 vans From Enterprise. I am in charge of retrieving the Capps Vans and Don Broussard is in charge of retrieving Enterprise Vans. I need 10 volunteers to pick up Vans at Capps. Don B. will need three or four for his vans. Contact Don B., to help him, at don.brouss...@att.net The times of the Van pickups is flexible that day. However I will be taking a Van from Kerrville that morning, with any available drivers already in Kerrville, and heading to Capps in San Antonio first thing Saturday. The 11 vans will be picked up, driven to the Airport to pick up any travelers and head to Kerrville and dropped at the motor pool. This IS in addition to the Airport Shuttles already doing the Airport run, this is just a matter of assisting them, and it's on the way. Details to be announced later. Who can help me with this? I need ten people over 25 years of age. Sunday July 26 and Monday July 27 these vans need to be returned from Kerrville to San Antonio. Each day will be about 15 vans, give or take. Who can help me with this? Don Broussard needs folks to help him pick up 4 Vans from Enterprise, located at 1505 Harry Wurzbach near the Fort Sam Houston National Cemetery in San Antonio and take them to Kerrville that same day. Who can help with this? These need to be returned Monday the 27 as well. B) I need to know WHEN you are available, SPECIFICALLY, to help for trips. Most Caving trips have drivers already, however there are several Cultural trips needing drivers as well. I will begin assigning drivers to vans ASAP. Please get ahold of me NOW. Thanks for your help, it will be fun! My mobile and primary phone number is (361) 362-3677 --- Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com 2009 15th International Congress of Speleology Transportation Coordinator NSS# 56822RL
[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Kerrville and canoe related
Are you bringing a canoe or kayak, David? On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: In downtown Kerrville, there is a bridge project over the Guadalupe River at Louise Hays Park. This has completely closed the river off and there are signs and construction fencing around the project telling people they will be fined if they enter the project area. Here is the TXDOT notice for anyone wishing to canoe or kayak in the area. There are two channels beneath the bridge. The north channel is closed and will remain closed for another month or two. The south channel is open, and will remain open. We ( TXDOT ) have a floating boom stretched across the channel, but it should be easily traversed by either kayaks or canoes. It is very similar to the device that is used to separate lanes in a swimming pool, and it is use to try to ensure that we do not contaminate the river. The channels he is referring to are separated by the upstream tip of Tranquility Island.That is the island in the middle of the park where, people just walk around and admire the cypress trees along the bank. http://www.bigrigtravels.com/gallery/6448819_waGgf/1/408715182_EF3DP/Medium David Locklear Related news: Be careful swimming there, as they had a drowning last week. http://www.kens5.com/news/stories/KENS20090623-KerrvilleDrowning.1c68829c.html - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] Super computers from CRAY
I seem to remember someone going on about Cray and maybe how they weren't around anymore. Here: http://www.cray.com/xt/istanbul/ -WaV
Re: [Texascavers] WNS
No, David. Ambient average cave temps in Texas are below 75 degrees. Bats are not big consumers of Honey Creek either. Spores easily survive temps above and beyond typical exposure temperature. -cd On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: Since the fungus is dormant above 75 degrees, then many Texas bat caves should be o.k. to visit.Right ? If someone enters the shaft at Honeycreek and exits at the small wet entrance, how could they possibly transmit WNS to any bats roosting in the dry entrance ? Any WNS on them would have been washed off. If a Texas bat had the fungus but left the cave to eat ( where the temperature is 100 degrees ) that would kill the fungus. Right ? Did anybody see the news-story about American crops being destroyed by WNS ? I think it was a tabloid story in Israel. Have any new cases of WNS been found in the past month ? I bet if you leave your caving gear out in the 100 degree sun for about an hour, that will be all the decon you will need. David Locklear - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Terminal Siphons
I'm looking for a tape of previous performances. Please contact -WaV
Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online!
Charles, you are doing a bang up job! Thank you. Don
Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online!
Do you not realize you are doing the very thing you complained about, over and over!? Let it go. On May 15, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Jules Jenkins wrote: DELETE --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Fofo gonza...@msu.edu wrote: From: Fofo gonza...@msu.edu Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online! To: texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:47 PM No, actually, I like very much the list the way it is and how Charles manages it. The delete key is your friend. - Fofo Jules Jenkins wrote: trust me, if there are 50 junk, complainy cave tex emails I DELETE them all. But, why should I have to spend so much time deleting junk, ridiculous responses not meant for all or NON cave topic emails. Perhaps, Charles, you should be more proactive and NOT the normally quiet list administrator I suspect many, many folks on the cave tex listserv feel similarly and also know how to delete emails! --- On *Thu, 5/14/09, Charles Goldsmith /wo...@justfamily.org/* wrote: From: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online! To: Texas Cavers List Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 11:16 PM While this is a hot topic, and it's ok to disagree with anyone's opinion on this, it is unnecessary to jump on anyone for speaking their opinion. If you don't like a posting on here, a simple tap of the delete key takes care of the problem. Everyone needs to learn that trick, it makes the internet so much nicer. Charles, the normally quiet list administrator - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com /mc/compose?to=texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers- h...@texascavers.com /mc/compose?to=texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online!
Really, one mistake, does not a hissy fit make. Don On May 14, 2009, at 6:10 PM, jran...@gmail.com wrote: really, do we all need to have to read your email response to Mark? this is the kind of junk that makes Texas Cavers NOT worth reading. On May 14, 2009 5:47pm, Jules Jenkins julesje...@yahoo.com wrote: really, do we all need to have to read your email response to Lyndon? this is the kind of junk that makes cave tex NOT worth reading. --- On Thu, 5/14/09, mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com wrote: From: mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online! To: Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca, texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 10:44 PM Yea, give me my paper copy too. Mark Gee NSS #49625 From: Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:47:26 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online! Quoted from a caver: As I stated before I want both paper and electronic copies, so what does that make me? irresponsibly responsible? Or Responsibly irresponsible? Quoted from a caver: that if a member does want to receive a hardcopy TxCvr, that they are environmentally or fiscally irresponsible. You can have either the hard copy and/or electronic or you can have both. You don't have to feel bad about anything. So what if someone calls you names. You keep your chin up and give them the finger. -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] Fwd: another personal update
From: Don Cooper wavyca...@gmail.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:58 PM Subject: Re: another personal update To: David dlocklea...@gmail.com Geez dude - Have you ever ONCE thought that maybe its not so much your boss's fault... I'm kindof doubting you'd be able to hold MY job for a month. I too must put up with work which feels completely beneath me - but I have no immediate alternative - I MUST work, until I find a better one I CANNOT COMPLAIN, because I have NOT found a better one and I continue to survive doing something I nearly hate at times and mostly with people that I wouldn't 'hang out' with even if they were the last on earth. But somewhere, someone is doing your old job - that exact same job, with a better attitude, with better results - and maybe for even less money. Most significantly, they posses the gullibility that they might be getting a decent trade for their labor, and as an extra bonus they try to find interest in everything they do and possibly even give a shit. I think you're overdue a major attitude adjustment. Otherwise you're REALLY going to regret this juncture when you finally come to your senses. -WaVy On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:03 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: http://davidsnewjob.blogspot.com/
[Texascavers] International Congress of Speleology Shuttle/Van Driver Volunteers
This is a heads up for International Congress of Speleology Shuttle/ Van Driver Volunteers. We need trip leaders and shuttle van drivers! There are only 11 at this point. Of course more are needed so please pass the word! At this point my first order of business and need is first thing in the morning on Saturday July 18. This is when vans need to be picked up and put into immediate service. Email me if interested in helping out, I have a schedule I can share. Pass this on to other caving lists! --- Don Arburn donarb...@mac.com 2009 15th International Congress of Speleology Transportation Coordinator NSS# 56822RL
Re: [Texascavers] Hangover Cure
H1N1 is absolutely NOT from eating pork. It should probably not even be called Swine Flu. -WaVy On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.comwrote: At this particular time I am not sure that anyone would want to be handling hogs. Fritz -Original Message- From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 3:12 PM To: Minton, Mark; txcaver Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Hangover Cure Hmm, maybe we need to cure some hog bacon for the morning after at TCR this year? Anyone have any hog sides to donate? Stefan -Original Message- From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] Since cavers are known to partake of the occasional drink, you might be interested in this scientifically verified cure for a hangover: the bacon sandwich. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/511 8283/Bacon-sandwich-really-does-cure-a-hangover.htmlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/511%0A8283/Bacon-sandwich-really-does-cure-a-hangover.html Mark Minton -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: First Trip
I allow them! Sent from my iPhone On Apr 24, 2009, at 11:13 AM, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: Terry, Check out the latest AMCS Photo of the Week, It was taken on the first trip to Mexico in November 1962 by TR Evans, Terry Raines, James Reddell, and William Russell. There was no photo attached to your email. :-( However, attachments aren't allowed on Texascavers... Mark - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
