[Texascavers] Carrizal histo
Thanks, Mónica. Attached is Google translation into English. It seems to have been well enough written that translation pretty successful. -- Mixon Carrizal Google translation.doc Description: MS-Word document A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg. You may "reply" to the address this message (unless it's a TexasCavers list post) came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
the fence right by the resurgence is actually the state line, the cave is in Coahuila El oct. 10, 2016 4:28 PM, "David via Texascavers" < texascavers@texascavers.com> escribió: > I am just curious if the cave really is inside the boundary of the State > of Nuevo Leon then how is it controlled by an ejido in the state of > Coahuila. > > I can't picture that happening in the USA. > > David Locklear > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Carrizal
I am just curious if the cave really is inside the boundary of the State of Nuevo Leon then how is it controlled by an ejido in the state of Coahuila. I can't picture that happening in the USA. David Locklear ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Where you live, your occupation, caving experience, close caving friends, any other facts that might be important to you. I had only seen your name recently. Fritz Holt Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 1, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers > wrote: > > So Fritz what would you like to know about me? > Karen > > > From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal > > I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and where > she is. > Fritz Holt > fritz...@gmail.com > An old 50's and 60's spelunker. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers >> wrote: >> >> The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with >> newspaper articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned >> were Chris Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas. >> >> Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, >> does anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre >> 1974 that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to >> religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply >> remove the tooth from the inventory log. >> >> Later, >> Karen Perry >> >> >> From: Charles Loving via Texascavers >> To: Cavers Texas >> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal >> >> A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and >> drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon >> with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The >> flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb. >> >> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers >> wrote: >> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages. >> I have heard they are under water. >> >> __ _ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ >> texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Charlie Loving >> >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> >> >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Thank you very much. friends.. :) 2016-09-01 17:46 GMT-05:00 Karen Perry via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com>: > So Fritz what would you like to know about me? > Karen > > > -- > *From:* Fritz Holt via Texascavers > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal > > I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and > where she is. > Fritz Holt > fritz...@gmail.com > An old 50's and 60's spelunker. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > > The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with > newspaper articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned > were Chris Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas. > > Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, > does anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre > 1974 that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to > religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to > simply remove the tooth from the inventory log. > > Later, > Karen Perry > > > -- > *From:* Charles Loving via Texascavers > *To:* Cavers Texas > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal > > A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and > drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon > with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The > flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb. > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > > I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages. > I have heard they are under water. > > __ _ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/> > http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers > <http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers> > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS Directora de MP- Mex Caving Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora) Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia) Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia) Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia) Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora) Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora (Asesora) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia) ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
So Fritz what would you like to know about me?Karen From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and where she is.Fritz Holtfritztcr@gmail.comAn old 50's and 60's spelunker. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers wrote: The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with newspaper articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned were Chris Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas. Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, does anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 1974 that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply remove the tooth from the inventory log. Later, Karen Perry From: Charles Loving via Texascavers To: Cavers Texas Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb. On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers wrote: I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.I have heard they are under water. __ _ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
I don't know Karen Perry but would like to read a short bio on who and where she is. Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com An old 50's and 60's spelunker. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Karen Perry via Texascavers > wrote: > > The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with newspaper > articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned were Chris > Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas. > > Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, does > anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 1974 > that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to > religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply > remove the tooth from the inventory log. > > Later, > Karen Perry > > > From: Charles Loving via Texascavers > To: Cavers Texas > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal > > A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and > drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon > with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The > flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb. > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers > wrote: > I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages. > I have heard they are under water. > > __ _ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Carrizal - a personal story
Carrizal was my 2nd cave in Mexico in late December of 1984. I had only been horizontal caving in about 20 small Texas caves, and the 3 big caves in Langtry. I had not yet met any cavers outside of about 8 A.S.S. cavers. ( Although, Ronnie Feiseler had giving a special slide presentation at my first A.S.S. meeting in late September of 1984. ) We had done all the lower passages of Palmito the day before Carrizal. I learned how to say guano after Carrizal, as I thought it was called "bat iguana." The mayor's staff in Candela could not locate a key to the ejido gate, so we parked about 1-1/2 mile north of the cave and hiked in. Trip leader was James Mueller, who had some caving experience and might have had some idea where the cave was. ( He lives now in the Burnett area and is a songbird specialist, and former professor of horn-toads. ) Other participants were Mary Kay Manning who is an expert professional naturalist, and daughter of old-timer caver James Manning. She nearly died on our hike to Precipicio the following day, and was saved from rolling off the big cliff by a lechuguilla plant. Jim Hudson, of Boerne, who would the next day would risk his life to save mine in the first drop of Precipicio ( my 2nd time on rope and first time in a cave ). Also, Freddie Platt of Houston who seemed like a young gung-ho caver, but disappeared around 1985 ( meaning he lost contact with anybody I knew that knew him. ) Steve Tonnesen now of Austin who has been an a electrical engineer for 30 years.Steve saved my life about 3 hours later on my 3rd time on rope ( 2nd pit in Precipicio ) He is probably a good canoeist or kayaker by now or owns a yacht. He was the only smart Aggie I ever met. Had he not saved my life, the other 4 cavers below me would have been trapped and died of dehydration. ( As I was wearing the only vertical gear the 6 cavers had ). Steve was above me and had a rockclimber's Figure-8, but he had no harness and had only used a Figure-8 once in his life rappelling at Enchanted Rock. Surprisingly, they all went caving with me again in 1985. Steve and I did a canoe trip north of Dallas in 1988, and never heard from him again. Freddie and I did some ridgewalking in the hill-country in 1985. Jim and his wife and I and an female Aggie caver, Audry Wright went to Klar's Ranch Salamander Cave near Boerne in 1987. I never saw him again. We send each other a Christmas greeting on Facebook.Mary Kay and I did 2 trips to the Guads and we have met up to socialize once a year. I bumped into her on a beach near the Boliver Peninsula about 2 years ago. I never heard from Jim Hudson ever again after Precipicio. He was supposedly a member of the informal group called The Boerne Speleomaniacs in 1984 and 85 and was not an Aggie. Anyways, I took cavers once a year to Carrizal in 1985, 86, 87, etc up until about 1994. It is all a blurry fuzzy memory of forgotten names and forgotten faces, and we did not take photos. Carrizal was always for us just a side trip before or after the principal primary destination. There are 200+ nicer caves in Mexico. But it is an opportunity for a good cave-diver to push it one more time. David Locklear ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología AC. via Texascavers wrote: Do you have the dates of that accident? do you know is someone write an article about it? could you please share with me Mónica Ponce 2016-08-31 11:57 GMT-05:00 Charles Loving via Texascavers : A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb. On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers wrote: I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages. I have heard they are under water. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS Directora de MP- Mex Caving Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora) Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia) Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia) Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia) Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora) Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora (Asesora) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia) ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
The entire incident is recorded in detailed time log, complete with newspaper articles in the November 1971 Texas Caver.The boys that drowned were Chris Cleveland 18, and Bruce Stone 17, both from Houston, Texas. Yep, I still have some caving stuff like early Texas Cavers. By the way, does anyone have a copy of the Paleo inventory from Inner Space cavers pre 1974 that list the Homo Sapien tooth? By 1974 it hafd been removed due to religious outcry so to avoid controversy the owners/ board decided to simply remove the tooth from the inventory log. Later, Karen Perry From: Charles Loving via Texascavers To: Cavers Texas Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb. On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers wrote: I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages.I have heard they are under water. __ _ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/ listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Do you have the dates of that accident? do you know is someone write an article about it? could you please share with me Mónica Ponce 2016-08-31 11:57 GMT-05:00 Charles Loving via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com>: > A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and > drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon > with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The > flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb. > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > >> I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages. >> >> I have heard they are under water. >> >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/te >> xascav...@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> >> > > > -- > Charlie Loving > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS Directora de MP- Mex Caving Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora) Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia) Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia) Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia) Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora) Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora (Asesora) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia) ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
A couple of people, scouts I think, swam the wrong way in the syphon and drowned. It was back when I was caving a lot. Raines and I swam the syphon with a Rayovac flashlight and two canteen belts latched together. The flashlight lasted just long enough for us to get back out. Really dumb. On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:53 PM, David via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages. > > I have heard they are under water. > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/ > texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Carrizal
I posted this story on CaveTex about 2 years ago.Here it is again, but rewritten from a very fuzzy memory bank: Sometime around 1996 ( 20 years ago ! ), I had a desire to poke around up in a small dome near the back of the Carrizal.My recollection from previous trips was that this dome could only be climbed with a really tall sturdy ladder. So I saved up my money and bought a very expensive heavy-duty extension ladder ( ~ $ 425, [ 1996 dollars ] ) In those days, I was driving a really nice Toyota truck with 4-Wheel drive and a really fancy pop-up Jayco slide-in camper on the back.( I actually had a real job in those days ). Rigging the giant ladder to the pop-up camper was difficult and time-consuming.I had a custom-made rack on the front bumper, that I made. ( Thanks to caver David Jones, who at that time owned a welding shop in Houston. He is the caver I spoke of last week in Terlingua that once wanted to kill me ). [ Sidenote: I still have that rack in my storage building in Brenham, if anybody wants it. ] Back to the story, I convinced 3 Houston cavers to go on trip to Carrizal, and explained my objective. They agreed. I forget who all was there, but one of them was David Williams. Possibly Joe Douglass who was and is again, a caver in central Tennessee. My memory is that at older Mexican caver joined us, ( but that might have been on the previous trip ).There should be a trip report in SpeleoSpace Newsletter. We arrived at the cave, and geared up.I began to discuss how we would carry the ladder down the stream passage. Everybody immediately mutinied and nobody was willing to drag the ladder into the cave.They all out-voted me and stated they wanted to see the lead first. I had a hunch that they would not be willing to carry the ladder in once they saw the lead. Anyways we got to the lead and looked for other leads in the high passages, and nobody was willing to carry the ladder into the cave to check them out. I gave serious thought to trying to carry the ladder all by myself. It could have been dissembled into 2 pieces had it been necessary.But we had a time constraint to return to Houston.I even thought about stashing the ladder in the cave, but figured someone would eventually find it and take it. I was really really bummed out. ( It was a lot of work to rig that ladder to the truck each time that I needed to pop-up the camper. ) I returned home and spent the month of December making money hanging Christmas lights in the neighborhood to justify purchasing the ladder. I thought about various ways to use the ladder like at TCR or donate it to a good cause. For 15+ years, the ladder remained unused, except maybe did some tree trimming. As the Kiwi Sink Project progressed it appeared they were going to need a good ladder, so about 2 years ago, I donated the ladder to the Kiwi Sink Project. The problem for me was rigging that ladder to my Honda Fit and driving from Arcola to Driftwood.That was a major road-trip. I know the ladder has been used in Kiwi Sink a few times, and even survived a flood.I hope cavers will continue to use this ladder if it is still usable or can be repaired. David Locklear NSS # 27639 P.S. This email is sent in Gmail, using Google Chrome 52.0 while running in Xubuntu 16.04.1 with Xfce desktop ( That is why it is called Xubuntu ).I have about 300+ hours now of experience using the basic functions of 8 different distros of Linux. The beta version of the next version of Xubuntu ( 16.10 ) came out yesterday, and the final release is scheduled for Sept. 22nd. I currently have 36 free simple arcade games installed and have tested them.Linux Mint 18 also has an Xfce edition for beginners, but computer-savvy users would prefer Xubuntu, if they are wanting the latest version numbers of components. I plan to spend 99% of my spare time studying Linux on my own over the next few months. Today, I taught my kid how to play a free puzzle-game called Tetravex using Xubuntu.She just finished her first week of middle school.I have 6 distros on my SSD to choose from so on a whim, I switch to a different distro and tinker with them. The Xfce desktop seems to be good enough for my purposes, so that is the one I would recommend people use. The choices of desktops is crazy. But there are about 5 that Linux geeks argue about being the best.If you are a musician, then you want to check out the latest version of Ubuntu Studio, as it gets great reviews. If you are a gamer, then you probably want to give SteamOS Linux a try. Linux will probably not be a good gaming system for years to come. ( just Google, OpenGL vs. Directx to see the problem ) I have been using Linux long enough now to see why Linux geeks never want to go back to Windows.Windows is just an operating system. Linux is just like religion, only far better.You get a multi-orgasmic born-again adre
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Snork :-) Stefan Creaser Staff Design Engineer; Physical Design Group; ARM 5707 Southwest Parkway, Bldg 1, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78735, USA. Direct: +1-512-314-1012, Internal: 11012. Email: stefan.crea...@arm.com<mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com>. Skype: stefan_creaser From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of David via Texascavers Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 8:53 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Carrizal I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages. I have heard they are under water. IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Carrizal
I have always wanted to see a map of the dived passages. I have heard they are under water. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Charles, you have to imagine a gas-powered choo-choo train and giant LCD tv's mounted on the walls showing you what "stalamgasites " are, and how they are formed. David Locklear ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Carizal as a tourist cave is a terrible idea. It isn't very pretty at any of the levels. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Espeleo Coahuila via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > > Currently the Caves of Carrizal, are considered of the state of Coahuila > and the Secretary of Tourism, has a project to make this cave a place for > tourism. > Despite knowing that the cave has histoplasmosis. > > LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ > > Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la > UIS > > Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS > > Directora de MP- Mex Caving > > Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora) > > Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia) > > Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia) > > Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia) > > Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora) > > Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora (Asesora) > > Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora) > > Texas Speleological Association (Socia) > > Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia) > > > 2014-11-11 19:11 GMT-06:00 via Texascavers : > >> The last time I went to Grutas de Carrizal was 2008. We didn't go to >> the dry upper level passage, because we knew there was Histoplasmosis >> there, but three new cavers got histo anyway, (two seriously). It was May, >> and there were bats in the big passage with the stream. maybe it was always >> winter when we went in the 70s. Maybe there are now more bats, but I >> wouldn't try it without histo masks. >> >> ___ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> > > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- Charlie Loving ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Currently the Caves of Carrizal, are considered of the state of Coahuila and the Secretary of Tourism, has a project to make this cave a place for tourism. Despite knowing that the cave has histoplasmosis. LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS Instructor Nacional Certificado de Espeleología por la FMAS Directora de MP- Mex Caving Asociación Coahuilense de Espeleología, A.C. (Fundadora) Asociación Italiana Geográfica La Venta (Socia) Centro de Estudios Kársticos La Venta (Socia) Grupo Espeleológico Vaxakmen, A.C. (Socia) Grupo Espeleológico EspeleoZots en Chetumal (Asesora) Grupo Pionero de Espeleología en Sonora (Asesora) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (Colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Unión Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleológicas (Socia) 2014-11-11 19:11 GMT-06:00 via Texascavers : > The last time I went to Grutas de Carrizal was 2008. We didn't go to > the dry upper level passage, because we knew there was Histoplasmosis > there, but three new cavers got histo anyway, (two seriously). It was May, > and there were bats in the big passage with the stream. maybe it was always > winter when we went in the 70s. Maybe there are now more bats, but I > wouldn't try it without histo masks. > > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
I first went to Carrizal in 1967 and there was already a sign on the building there between the 2 entrances warning of the histo danger. I was raised with chickens so have a high histo resistance. We went caving there a dozen or more times with small and large groups and I don't recall that anybody in any of our groups ever reported getting histo--or even feeling bad--though there could have been some cases that were never diagnosed or reported that I never heard about. We explored (and usually entered the cave through) the upper, dry passage (generally considered to be the histo infected area) and also explored the 2 lower water passages--to include diving them both with and without scuba. I recall that soon after (or during?) that time there were reports of people from other groups getting histo after visiting the cave. I don't feel qualified to give any advice on going to explore Carrizal anymore but would suggest that anyone without a proven resistance to any of the several lung fungi who decides to go to Carrizal consider wearing a millipore dust filter mask. A reasonable history of close contact with yard birds (chickens, for instance) during their lives should give people an excuse to be less careful--but why? --Ediger On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:36 PM, Fofo via Texascavers wrote: Hey Pete! Oh, I can't remember, but it was probably during the summer since we had no newer cavers with us (and if we had gone during the time of eithe the spring or fall semester we would have had more people tagging along). - Fofo On 12/11/14 20:28, via Texascavers wrote: > Sorry, that first Carrizal post was Pete Strickland, (I forgot I had to > sign now). Fofo- What time of year did the Monterrey nubies get Histo? > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Hey Pete! Oh, I can't remember, but it was probably during the summer since we had no newer cavers with us (and if we had gone during the time of eithe the spring or fall semester we would have had more people tagging along). - Fofo On 12/11/14 20:28, via Texascavers wrote: Sorry, that first Carrizal post was Pete Strickland, (I forgot I had to sign now). Fofo- What time of year did the Monterrey nubies get Histo? ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Carrizal
Sorry, that first Carrizal post was Pete Strickland, (I forgot I had to sign now). Fofo- What time of year did the Monterrey nubies get Histo? ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Thanks Stefan! I was wondering the same. A few years ago we went with the Monterrey Tec caving group to Carrizal, checked both the water and dry levels and had a blast. We figured it would be an awesome cave to bring newer cavers since it was so cool to have a both hot and cold streams in a cave. In our first trip it was all experienced cavers (with probably higher resistance to histoplasmosis), we didn't know that Carrizal had a high risk of histo, and no one got sick. When we came back with a group of newer and more experienced cavers, all the newer cavers got histo, one of them badly. Too bad, because it's such a cool cave! - Fofo > On 11/11/2014, at 17:26, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers > wrote: > > Dear ? > > Please sign your messages. > > Stefan > - stefan.crea...@arm.com > > -Original Message- > From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of > via Texascavers > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:12 PM > To: texascavers@texascavers.com > Subject: [Texascavers] Carrizal > >The last time I went to Grutas de Carrizal was 2008. We didn't go to the > dry upper level passage, because we knew there was Histoplasmosis there, but > three new cavers got histo anyway, (two seriously). It was May, and there > were bats in the big passage with the stream. maybe it was always winter when > we went in the 70s. Maybe there are now more bats, but I wouldn't try it > without histo masks. > > > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. Thank you. > > ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, > Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 > ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, > Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Carrizal
Dear ? Please sign your messages. Stefan - stefan.crea...@arm.com -Original Message- From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of via Texascavers Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:12 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Carrizal The last time I went to Grutas de Carrizal was 2008. We didn't go to the dry upper level passage, because we knew there was Histoplasmosis there, but three new cavers got histo anyway, (two seriously). It was May, and there were bats in the big passage with the stream. maybe it was always winter when we went in the 70s. Maybe there are now more bats, but I wouldn't try it without histo masks. -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
[Texascavers] Carrizal
The last time I went to Grutas de Carrizal was 2008. We didn't go to the dry upper level passage, because we knew there was Histoplasmosis there, but three new cavers got histo anyway, (two seriously). It was May, and there were bats in the big passage with the stream. maybe it was always winter when we went in the 70s. Maybe there are now more bats, but I wouldn't try it without histo masks. ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
