Re: [Therion] Running Xtherion on Mac OS X Catalina

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Shouldn’t be there one more line: make install?

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

31. 3. 2020 v 23:55, Philippe Vernant :

> Here are my notes of the last install on High Sierra with homebrew, in case 
> it can help …
> 
> 1) Install homebrew 
> 2) Install survex via homebrew (cf. survex site web)
> 3) brew install tcl-tk
> 4) install the mactex package
> 5) add in ~/.profile : 
>export PATH=/Library/TeX/texbin:$PATH
> 6) brew install vtk
> 7) In therion/loch, change the Makefile :
>comment: #VTKLIBPATH = $(shell tclsh ./getvtkver.tcl libpath)
>add: VTKLIBPATH = /usr/local/lib/
> 8) In Therion directory 
>make config-macosx
>make
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
>> On 31 Mar 2020, at 18:27, Philippe Vernant  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> Did you try to reinstall Therion after updating to Catalina ? I don’t have 
>> Catalina, I’m sticking to High Sierra where everything is running fine so 
>> far.
>> How do you usually install Therion on a Mac ?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Phil
>> 
>> 
>>> On 30 Mar 2020, at 22:04, David Eason via Therion  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Therion mailing list,
>>> 
>>> I wonder if anyone has had any success building, installing and running 
>>> Therion on Mac OS X Catalina (OS 10.15.2)? I have successfully built and 
>>> installed Therion 5.4.4, and Therion and Loch both run fine. Before the 
>>> upgrade, everything worked OK, but it looks like some things have moved 
>>> around in this version of OS X, amongst other things breaking. When I try 
>>> to run Xtherion, Tcl/Tk can't seem to locate BWidget, and the GUI can't run:
>>> 
>>> Error in startup script: can't find package BWidget
>>> while executing
>>> "package require BWidget"
>>> (file "/usr/local/bin/xtherion" line 12268)
>>> 
>>> I have tried unpacking the bwidget 1.9.14 scripts to /usr/local/lib 
>>> thinking that tcl would check there, and then also tried to set auto_path 
>>> to force tcl to look in there, but it won't seem to start up. There's a 
>>> pause, and Wish seems to start up, and yet XQuartz actually opens; I have 
>>> tcl 8.6 installed and can run the tclsh OK.
>>> 
>>> It's been frustrating me for a while, and I saw this lockdown in the UK as 
>>> an opportunity to have another look at this. Any pointers or tips would be 
>>> most welcome.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> David Eason
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>> 
> 
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Re: [Therion] Running Xtherion on Mac OS X Catalina

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

This my file .bash_profile in my user directory



export PATH="/usr/local/opt/tcl-tk/bin:$PATH"

export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/tcl-tk/lib"
export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/tcl-tk/include"

export PKG_CONFIG_PATH="/usr/local/opt/tcl-tk/lib/pkgconfig”



But I’m not sure you may just copy it. It depends on your system configuration. 
It is not basic user level I’m afraid.

Maybe somebody may explain it more detailed, please.

Martin


> 30. 3. 2020 v 22:04, David Eason via Therion :
> 
> Dear Therion mailing list,
> 
> I wonder if anyone has had any success building, installing and running 
> Therion on Mac OS X Catalina (OS 10.15.2)? I have successfully built and 
> installed Therion 5.4.4, and Therion and Loch both run fine. Before the 
> upgrade, everything worked OK, but it looks like some things have moved 
> around in this version of OS X, amongst other things breaking. When I try to 
> run Xtherion, Tcl/Tk can't seem to locate BWidget, and the GUI can't run:
> 
> Error in startup script: can't find package BWidget
> while executing
> "package require BWidget"
> (file "/usr/local/bin/xtherion" line 12268)
> 
> I have tried unpacking the bwidget 1.9.14 scripts to /usr/local/lib thinking 
> that tcl would check there, and then also tried to set auto_path to force tcl 
> to look in there, but it won't seem to start up. There's a pause, and Wish 
> seems to start up, and yet XQuartz actually opens; I have tcl 8.6 installed 
> and can run the tclsh OK.
> 
> It's been frustrating me for a while, and I saw this lockdown in the UK as an 
> opportunity to have another look at this. Any pointers or tips would be most 
> welcome.
> 
> Regards,
> David Eason
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Re: [Therion] Running Xtherion on Mac OS X Catalina

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Have you try to add path to tcl to PATH?

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

30. 3. 2020 v 22:04, David Eason via Therion :

> Dear Therion mailing list,
> 
> I wonder if anyone has had any success building, installing and running 
> Therion on Mac OS X Catalina (OS 10.15.2)? I have successfully built and 
> installed Therion 5.4.4, and Therion and Loch both run fine. Before the 
> upgrade, everything worked OK, but it looks like some things have moved 
> around in this version of OS X, amongst other things breaking. When I try to 
> run Xtherion, Tcl/Tk can't seem to locate BWidget, and the GUI can't run:
> 
> Error in startup script: can't find package BWidget
> while executing
> "package require BWidget"
> (file "/usr/local/bin/xtherion" line 12268)
> 
> I have tried unpacking the bwidget 1.9.14 scripts to /usr/local/lib thinking 
> that tcl would check there, and then also tried to set auto_path to force tcl 
> to look in there, but it won't seem to start up. There's a pause, and Wish 
> seems to start up, and yet XQuartz actually opens; I have tcl 8.6 installed 
> and can run the tclsh OK.
> 
> It's been frustrating me for a while, and I saw this lockdown in the UK as an 
> opportunity to have another look at this. Any pointers or tips would be most 
> welcome.
> 
> Regards,
> David Eason
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[Therion] New DEM data from NASA

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

https://www.gislounge.com/updated-global-elevation-data-released-by-nasa/

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Re: [Therion] texts_rs and a remark about karren vs anastomosis

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 15. 2. 2020 v 1:54, ivana miskovic :
> 
> Also, unrelated to the translation itself, during translation I found some 
> confusion in point symbols for karren and for anastomosis. It seems like they 
> are inverted. Karren are generally sharp limestone formations on the floor, 
> and anastomosis are usually remain like rounded rock formations in the cave 
> ceiling. Unfortunately, in the UIS official symbol list, karren and 
> anastomoses were put on the same picture.
> 

Definitionts from: 
Vladimír Panoš
KARSOLOGICKÁ A SPELEOLOGICKÁ TERMINOLOGIE: VÝKLADOVÝ SLOVNÍK S EKVIVALENTY VE 
SLOVENŠTINĚ A JEDNACÍCH JAZYCÍCH MEZINÁRODNÍ SPELEOLOGICKÉ UNIE (UNESCO) 
(angličtina, francouzština, italština, němčina, ruština, španělština)
KARSOLOGICAL AND SPELEOLOGICAL TERMINOLOGY: A EXPLANATORY DICTIONARY WITH 
EQUIVALENTS IN SLOVAK AND THE INTERNATIONAL SPELEOLOGICAL UNION (UNESCO) 
LANGUAGES (English, French, Italian, German, Russian, Spanish)
Note: In this dictionary you may find several thousands definitions of 
karsological and speleological terminology. You may find it as PDF on net. You 
may use online translator from Czech.
škrapy škrapy
A karren, lapies; F (m) lapiaz, (m/pl) lapiés; l (m/pl) karren, (m/pl) lapiés;N 
(f/pl) Karren, (f/pl) Schrannen (švýc. němč.); R (m/pl) кappы; Š (m/pl) 
lapiés. 
Drobné i velké, často pravidelně uspořádané a hustě nahromaděné konkávní i 
konvexní tvary nejrůznějších podob, rozčleňující holý i pokrytý skalní povrch 
nebo stěny jeskyní v rozpustných horninách různých typů (karbonáty, kamenná 
sůl, sádrovec, led, homogenní i jemnozrnné pískovce, kvarcity, granity aj.); 
vznikají fyzikálním či chemickým rozpouštěním matečných hornin nebo jejich 
tmelů; v germ. jazycích vžitý lid. termín z alpské oblasti, v román. jazycích 
z franc. dialektu oblasti jury.
U š. povrchových jde jednak o korozně-erozní působení volně stékající vody 
meteorické, dopadající přímo na holé skalní plochy nebo se vyroňující z 
okolních pokryvů či skapávající s listů a převislých větví stromů a keřů, 
jednak o korozní působení vody infiltrační, prosakující ke skalnímu povrchu 
zvětralinovými a sedimentárními pokryvy a jednak o korozně-erozní působení 
vody mořské či jezerní; kromě vody se na tvorbě povrchových š. podílejí i 
různé organismy a nižší či vyšší rostliny (baktérie, houby, plísně, řasy, 
lišejníky, mechy a kořenová vegetace); š. povrchové se tedy tvoří jen v 
humidních podmínkách; vyskytují-li se v rozpustných horninách v podmínkách 
aridních, glaciálních či polárních, jde o tvary -> paleokrasu, vzniklé v 
humidních fázích vývoje. U š. jeskynních je modelačním faktorem nenasycená 
voda puklinová či průlinová, vyroňující se do jeskynního prostoru, voda 
kondenzační, srážející se na jeskynních stěnách, anebo voda alochtonních či 
autochtonních podzemních toků, protékající po dně nebo plným profilem 
jeskynního prostoru.

škrapy stropní škrapy stropné 
A anastomoses, ceiling grooves; f (m/pl) lapies cle voûte; I (m/pl) anastomosi, 
(m/pl) canali di volta; N (f/pl) Deckenkarren; R (m/pl) анастомозы; Š (m/pl) 
lapies de techo.
Škrapy jeskynní, vázané na stropy jeskynních prostorů či na spodní plochy 
skalních převisů; tvoří je jednak přímé či meandrovité stružky s 
polokruhovitým, parabolickým nebo ledvini-tým příčným profilem, vůči 
okolnímu povrchu omezené ostrými hranami, jednak členité skalní výstupky-> 
kulis jeskynních; podle starších představ vznikajíš. s. fyzikálně chemickou a 
eforační činností vody jeskynního toku, přitlačeného sedimenty, nahromaděnými 
na dně jeskyně, do horní částí evakuačního prostoru; podle současných poznatků 
jde většinou o tvary vytvořené zrychlenou korozí (-» korozí směsovou) 
infiltračních vod prosakujících vůdčí puklinou, na níž je jeskynní prostor 
založen.

Martin





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Re: [Therion] compiling error

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 6. 1. 2020 v 10:14, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> When .xtherion.dat has the "Hidden" flag set, Therion thinks it cannot
> write to it (even though it actually can, since the Read-Only flag is
> not set), so it doesn't output anything to that file, and throws an
> error. The error has the wrong message, since it claims not to be able
> to create Plan.thconfig.xth, when it actually did create that temporary
> file just fine.

Didn’t the older versions of Therion use the same way to create .xtherion.dat 
file on Windows systems? If so rather it looks as Windows changed the 
permission to write to some files. Therion may do only what the operating 
system allows to it.

Martin

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Re: [Therion] Shortening long passages in extended elevations

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Define several maps, export them separately and use -map-image to place them in 
one export.

As continuatuon line you may modify user line strata 
https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#line_symbols 


Martin





> 20. 12. 2019 v 10:00, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> With extended elevations, you might want to show only the most important
> parts, like pitches, while showing long passages as a shorter distance
> with a break symbol. Imagine a cave with an initial pitch, a long
> passage, and a final pitch, where the extended elevation should
> concentrate on the detail of the pitches only, and not have the long
> passage wasting space. For a real example, see this rigging topo:
> 
> https://cncc.org.uk/caving/topos/download-single.php?id=6
> 
> If the passage is horizontal, you could easily achieve this by setting
> the legs of the long passage to "extend vertical", so that its stations
> to not take up any horizontal length. You can then manually draw the gap
> with some lines.
> 
> However, if the long passage slopes downwards, this will make the two
> parts of the passage break with a vertical gap between them. This makes
> sense because it means that the extended elevation will show the
> vertical range of the cave, which is great if that's what you are hoping
> for. But in a rigging topo, it is less useful. There is no equivalent
> that I can see to "extend equate 21 57", which would be an equate that
> happens only during an extended elevation. Essentially, this is the
> desired outcome though.
> 
> For a real example, see this rigging topo - the breaks represent a
> passage that has lost as much as 20 metres of altitude, which is
> completely ignored:
> 
> https://cncc.org.uk/caving/topos/download-single.php?id=61
> 
> One method I can think of - but it feels like a hack - is to draw the
> upper pitch in one map, and the lower pitch in another map, then use map
> offsets to pull the lower map into the desired position when rendering.
> 
> Does anyone have a better solution to this? Can "extend hide" do
> something useful or will that still keep any vertical (and horizontal)
> offsets?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] New development software issue

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

38 years old skeleton in a closet still scares?

M. 

Odesláno z iPhonu

18. 12. 2019 v 13:00, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

 ERROR: Can not execute "command.com /c "C:\\Program 
 Files\\Therion\\therion.exe" -x cave.th
>>> 
>>> The code in xtherion/global.tcl tries to run cmd.exe first and if that 
>>> fails it assumes command.com:
>> 
>> I had guessed this was the approach it might use.
>> 
>> But this would not explain why commit 802ad7c worked correctly, but
>> 19eb624 failed.
> 
> Found the cause! This is a problem that will randomly affect other
> users, so it would be nice if there was a proper solution within Therion.
> 
> The computer has "Segurazo real-time protection" installed, but this
> issue could probably show up with other Anti-Virus engines too. When you
> ask Therion to compile, it tries to load cmd.exe. Segurazo intercepts,
> and tries to scan cmd.exe. This randomly completes in time (which is why
> we thought it worked in one version and not another). If it takes too
> long, Therion thinks that it was denied access, so it tries command.com
> instead, and fails because Windows 10 has cmd.exe
> 
> We could work around it by hitting F9 twice, really quickly (so it ran
> the second one while the AV was still scanning it from the first time).
> 
> This is all Segurazo's fault, so we uninstalled it. But surely if one AV
> engine does it, then so will others. It would be nice if Therion was a
> little more patient, and allowed AVs the time to complete, before
> deciding that it needed to use "command.com" instead.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Stupendous symbol effort

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

There is a book published after 30 years work of prof. Vladimír Panoš, book 
named Karsologická a speleologická terminologie, it means "Karsologic and 
Speleologic Terminology". There are names of such terms in English, French, 
Italian, German, Russian and Spanish. The explanation is only in Czech but you 
may use online translator. There are more than 2000 entries there. I’m sure you 
may find it online as PDF, but as printed book it is in many libraries around 
the world. 

Maybe this may help.

Martin


> 17. 12. 2019 v 22:15, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
>> Here in Slovakia we call it like "water level flowstone" -
>> but it would be complicated to name for this symbol. So is the
>> "disc-stalactite" OK in English?
> 
> I can only speak for what I have heard in the UK. We call these "pom
> poms" after a famous stalactite called "The Pom Pom" in South Wales. (In
> turn, this is named after the thing cheerleaders hold.) I imagine that
> in the USA they will use a completely different name.
> 
> However, we don't really seem to have a generic name for the effect. The
> rafts that float are called "calcite rafts", but the ones that are stuck
> to a stalactite at the water's level don't have a formal name that I
> have heard. Maybe someone from the BCRA could say...
> 
> "Water level growths" is probably as good as anything, but far too long
> for Therion.
> 
>> Another symbol:
>> point plus|minus|plus-minus
>> currently, for "plus" and "minus" there is:
>> point height -value +
>> point height -value -
>> and there is no symbol for point +-. So I suggest to add "point height
>> -value +-" and make a circle version of point height.
> 
> There is already a +- round text ornamentation. It is used whenever the
> p_label_mode is p_label_mode_passageheightposneg, which I think is only
> "point passageheight:both".
> 
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Hi Alastair,

(as usual) the problem is you didn't select any map in thconfig.

This works. (I changed a bit names of you maps and scraps just to know what is 
what).

Martin






> 12. 12. 2019 v 23:08, alastair gott :
> 
> Hi momentarily forgot which file you needed,
> 
> Sorry you need the main .th file not .thconfig
> 
> Claphamjn_PartingfrMaster.th 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Alastair Gott.
> 
> alastairg...@hotmail.com ,
> M: 07931779380.
> From: Therion  on behalf of alastair gott 
> 
> Sent: 12 December 2019 22:04
> To: Therion Mailing List 
> Subject: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and 
> below
>  
> Hi Therion guys,
> 
> In the final throws of getting a report done for Spanish Gov before the end 
> of the year.
> 
> I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below 
> others.
> 
> I've got higher passages appearing below lower passages, I've moved them 
> around in the map structure, to no solution.
> 
> So I just want to know If anyone had any insight as to what I should try.
> 
> Specific example for SVN users here: 
> http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Andara/Tresviso/Nacimiento/therion/ 
> 
> 
> Claphamjn_Partingfr.thconfig 
> 
>  is the config which runs the main survey below.
> 
> Both side passages (north of main) should be appearing above, hence label 
> "drop to streamway"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Alastair Gott.
> 
> alastairg...@hotmail.com,
> M: 07931779380.
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Re: [Therion] How does Therion decide which passages to put above and below

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

What is the reason to kill one of basic principles of Therion which allows to 
generate maps of really complicated systems?

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

13. 12. 2019 v 8:34, Benedikt Hallinger :

> Is there any layout option we can activate, so therion ignores map ordering 
> alltogether and always just uses average scrap height?
> 
>> Am 12.12.2019 um 23:46 schrieb Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion 
>> :
>> 
>> Alastair,
>> 
>>> I need to know how therion decides which passages to put above and below
>>> others.
>> 
>> I have not yet looked into your specific setup, but this is the general
>> case:
>> 
>> If you are *not* using "map-endmap" to define a map, or if you are
>> selecting multiple objects in a dataset with several "select" commands
>> rather than using a map, then Therion uses the average height of the
>> stations in the scraps to determine the heights of each scrap, and
>> stacks them accordingly.
>> 
>> If a scrap contains stations with altitudes 1m, 5m, and 15m, the average
>> height of the scrap will be 7m. The scrap will be placed above scraps
>> with average heights lower than that, even if the other scrap has two
>> stations at 6 metres, passing over the first scrap's 1m altitude
>> station. (It checks the averages, not the specific locations where the
>> scraps cross each other.)
>> 
>> If you are using maps, then by default, a map of scraps will be placed
>> with the scraps at the same stacking height as each other (so the
>> passage fills are rendered overlapping, and the features like walls are
>> all rendered on top of all the scraps at once). You use "break" to
>> separate the rendering layers.
>> 
>> map map1
>> scrap1
>> scrap2
>> break
>> scrap3
>> scrap4
>> endmap
>> 
>> scrap1 and scrap2 get rendered at the same time, at the same stacking
>> level as each other. scrap3 and scrap4 get rendered at the same time, at
>> the same stacking level as each other. scrap1 and scrap2 get stacked and
>> layered *above* scrap3 and scrap4.
>> 
>> When you have a map of maps, a "break" is implied between the maps.
>> 
>> map outermap
>> map1
>> map2
>> map3
>> endmap
>> 
>> The scraps in map1 are stacked/layered above the scraps in map2, and
>> those in map2 are stacked/layered above map3.
>> 
>> You seem to be using maps, so you will be seeing this automatic breaking
>> between maps.
>> 
>> If the scraps within a map are layered in the wrong order, change your
>> ordering of scraps within the map to put them in the right order, and
>> put "break" where needed to separate them into layers.
>> 
>> If the scraps within a map-of-maps are layered in the wrong order,
>> change your ordering of maps within the outer map to put the top layers
>> first.
>> 
>> Complicated setups can arise in some cases; If you have scraps within a
>> map (eg. "mapxyz") where some are supposed to pass above, and some
>> below, a scrap within another map (eg. "mapothr"), then you need to
>> split your "mapxyz" map into two maps, one with the "above" scraps, and
>> one with the "below" scraps, and then you need to include those two maps
>> separately in the parent map, with the interleaved "mapothr" map between
>> them.
>> 
>> I guess some of this might be stuff you already know, but maybe it will
>> explain what you are seeing at least.
>> 
>> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Setting -outline for pit lines

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

11. 12. 2019 v 16:59, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :1. Whether "-outline out" is actually the correct thing to use when thepit line points outwards rather than inwards.2. Why it even matters which way we draw a *wall*, if "outline out"always can pick the "correct" side to fill. Surely if it can work outthe "correct" side of a pit line, it can also work out the correct sideof a "wall" line, and it doesn't even matter whether the yellow tickpoints towards "air" or "rock".If I understand the problem:Orientation of line has essential importance in Therion. Normaly, everything what is on right side of line wall as you draw it is bedrock (if you don’t define colour map-bg it will be white in PDF). The reverse command has been added later just need not to redraw the wall with correct orientation. Before that only way was to delete such line and redraw it. Normaly the line wall has empty space on side of yellow tick, bedrock on oposite side. Outline is by default defined only for wall. You may use -outline in or -outline out for other lines as well. In your case you has two scraps. Upper scrap ends with pit. If you don’t define outline Therion will connect ends of passage and there will be red sickle and part of little ticks of line pit will be clipped.If you use for line pit -outline out and -clip of Therion will use this line as line wall and clip everything on oposite side as yellow tick is. Clip of means that small ticks, part of symbol line pit, will not be clipped. Because you has second scrap under the first one it willl look as the end of first scrap after pit is transparent.Martin

cave_no_outline.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
        

cave_outline_out_clip_of.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Therion] Help with an error

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

There is not a real join "end of a line" to "end of another line" (or point) in 
your map. Just two underlying passages.

Command join works in this way: after it reaches end of first line wall in 
first scrap it will find the nearest beginning of another line wall from second 
scrap and connect them. And in case it is not the correct situation the result 
will be a mess. See that yellow line on attached image indicating the biggest 
warping (connecting ends of walls) the Therion had to do to join those two 
scraps.

One must „construct“ map in Therion. Always to think about how all objects will 
be organized, positioned and connected on the final map.

Martin









> 9. 12. 2019 v 23:25, עמרי גסטר :
> 
> Yes! this is how it should be
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> but I don't understand, everywhere I read about joining project there has to 
> be a join, how it works without it?
> why does it cause a problem? 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 12:04 AM Nick Bairstow  <mailto:n...@pff.uk.com>> wrote:
> It’s the join that’s messing it up. Comment it out.
> 
> I changed the circular line type- pit to line type-wall-subtype  pit
> 
> Not too sure if that’s what you intended but it’s getting better.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk>> 
> On Behalf Of  
> Sent: 09 December 2019 21:04
> To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Help with an error
> 
>  
> 
> by it's own it turns out fine, The problem is that this map needs to connect 
> to another map and the connection turns out completely distorted:
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> I thought it's because of this error because this is the only error
> 
>  
> 
> I added the files of the other map and the master th file.
> 
> hope you can understand why this is happening.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 10:52 PM Nick Bairstow  <mailto:n...@pff.uk.com>> wrote:
> 
> I get the same as Martin. I thought it may break the kml map output but that 
> is fine as well -with my coords-
> 
> I do have a warning but I always this on this particular Win 10 machine. It's 
> a windows thing I think, I just ignore it.
> 
> warning -- can't open cavern log file for input
> 
> Also, I found this:
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg02736.html 
> <https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg02736.html>
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Therion mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk>> 
> On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via Therion
> Sent: 09 December 2019 18:33
> To: List for Therion users mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>
> Cc: Martin Sluka mailto:martinsl...@mac.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Help with an error
> 
> Not any problem. 
> 
> Therion from December 6th.
> 
> Martin
> 
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>  
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> --
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> בברכה,
> 
> עמרי גסטר
> 
> 052-6124995
> 
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> 
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[Therion] silhouette of trees

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Hi Tarquin,

I found a page with many silhoutte of trees. You may use it as png files and 
placed them to final TeX output from Therion.

https://www.etsy.com/    find: trees-silhouette-vectors

Regards

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Re: [Therion] Breaking a loop at a specific station on extended elevation

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Thank you!

Martin

> 2. 12. 2019 v 9:22, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
>> This would make an excellent mini topic on the wiki (in the existing
>> article on "extend").
> 
> 
> I have now added a new article, with details of the investigation:
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/breakingextend
> 
> Because it uses a load of images, it was nicer to have it as a separate
> article, rather than litter the existing one. Bruce, please double check
> you are happy with how I linked it from your "extend" article.
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[Therion] New development version

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

https://github.com/therion/therion/tree/802ad7c 


Add thconfig option to disable offsets

Martin Sluka

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Re: [Therion] New symbols

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Martin Budaj is not on internet in this moment. He will answer when possible. 

Martin Sluka

Odesláno z iPhonu

27. 11. 2019 v 7:52, Bruce Mutton :

>>> Do you have a graphic example of your symbols?
>> Sure. Here it is: 
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vXQg23eaPnG1XiQvohGY3Yhk6S7KxZCz
> 
> That sets a new standard Rodrigo.  I look forward to playing with them.
> Bruce
> 
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Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: How to rotate XVI?

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 25. 11. 2019 v 11:33, Torsten Schnitter via Therion :
> 
> There is a website where you can transform this kml data to surface data. You 
> will get an endless list with stations and added surface altitude. The 
> website is www.gpsvisualizer.com 
> I can't remember how to get the final file  but there was still some work to 
> do on that file.

I just experimented a bit with gpsvisualiser:

1.export model in format .kml
2. manually remove altitude from station coordinates between commands 
 . Quite easy with help of 
spreadsheet. Don’t forget to add first row with headers and column with names 
of stations. Export as .csv (coma delimited data) file.

name,longitude,latitude
0,-86.238601,37.720834
...

3. use this page https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/elevation 
 - where you may find altitude of 
surface above lat-long coordinates of stations from DEM model.
4. export .txt file


The result should looks as this:

typelatitudelongitude   altitude (m)name
W   37.72083-86.23860   211.1   0
W   37.720837031-86.238605393   211.1   1
W   37.720852666-86.238627797   210.9   2
W   37.720836572-86.238632999   210.9   3
W   37.720859584-86.238609790   210.9   4
W   37.720880946-86.238602835   210.9   5
W   37.720906567-86.238586683   210.8   6
W   37.720922277-86.238569001   210.7   7
W   37.720941550-86.238578853   210.5   8
W   37.720979796-86.238600593   210.4   9
5. convert data to valid .th file and generate .xvi file.

Martin


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Re: [Therion] multiple scraps and 3D model

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 21. 11. 2019 v 19:53, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> We have the scrap option 'walls  which should toggle the use 
> of the scrap for 3d generation.

It doesn’t work for this situation.

Martin
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[Therion] multiple scraps and 3D model

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Situation: Two or more surveying groups surveyed the same part of cave, as the 
result in .th and .th2 files are overlays. In data file (.th) you may eliminate 
it by: 

flags duplicate
…
…
flags not duplicate.

In maps you may solve it to choose only one unique scrap for definition of map.

But the problem is generation of 3D (Loch) model. Therion will generate model 
according all scraps in surveys in source file and it may result in very 
strange results.

Only solution, I found, is to manually comment by „#“ unwanted particular 
scraps in .th2 files.

Martin  
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Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 15. 11. 2019 v 14:33, Bill Gee :
> 
> Regarding the strange offsets of [0 0 ft] - That is intentional.  If I did 
> not do the offset with "above" or "below", then the transparency effects did 
> not work.  It was not clear which passage was above or below.  They were all 
> mashed together as if they were one layer.  A true offset was not, in my 
> judgement, necessary.

There is a way you may use to organize layers of maps with above and below:

 map layer_3.map -projection plan -title "Radavc - layer 3“
   ...
   radavc_2012_w_plan_s2d
   preview above layer_1.map
   preview above layer_2.map
   preview below layer_4.map
   preview below layer_5.map
   preview below layer_6.map
endmap

map layer_4.map -projection plan -title "Radavc - layer 4“
….

It means that you define what is relative position of a map definition to 
another maps which create an overall map.

>  And one last question, just because I am curious:  Does the naming 
> convention of "name@place" extend to more than one layer?  Is something like 
> "name@cave@space" possible?  Could I write something like 
> "AllieMainPlan@AllieSpringCave@BCRPlanMap"?

There is another syntax, but it works only for surveys/name spaces:

AllieMainPlan@AllieSpringCave.BCRPlanMap.x.y etc.

object@name_space.higher_name_space.higher_name_space

Martin


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Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Hi Bill,

> 14. 11. 2019 v 21:10, Bill Gee :
> 
> The thconfig file has a line "select AllieMainPlan".  I changed that to 
> "select AllieMainPlan@all" and recompiled.  No difference.  The resulting map 
> has all four caves and no offsets.  The map structure as reported by xtherion 
> did not change.

I checked your files BigCavernRanch.th  and 
thconfig.txt

The command select AllieMainPlan@TestSurvey should work.  In the latest version 
of BigCavernRanch.th  you renamed survey all to 
survey TestSurvey. As result map AllieMainPlan is part of survey/name space 
TestSurvey and not survey/name space all.

Probably the best way to select a particular map is doubleclick on it’s name in 
map structure when cursor in proper place in thcongig file..

Martin



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Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 14. 11. 2019 v 14:38, Bill Gee :
> 
> I am shooting blindly in the dark here.  What is the hierarchy of namespaces? 
>  Do surveys contain maps, or do maps contain surveys?  Can maps contain maps? 
>  Can surveys contain surveys?  Can a map contain a survey which in turn 
> contains a map?

Any survey-endsurvey structure is a name space.

Maps structure is independent from structure of surveys but it allways belong 
to a name space of enclosing survey-endsurvey.

So in your file AllieSpringCave.th  there is name 
space AllieSpringCave, but map AllieMainPlan is outside it. After you input the 
file AllieSpringCave.th  into your file 
BigCavernRanch.th  inside name space all, it become 
part of "name space all".

>  
> If surveys can contain maps, and maps can contain surveys, then how do you 
> know what the top of the namespace is?

Name space is each structure survey-endsurvey.

> Using Allie Spring Cave as an example, it looks to me like the top of the 
> name space is a map called AllieMainPlan.  

This map AllieMainPlan is outside the name space "survey 
AllieSpringCave-endsurvey". It is reason you should call all subsidiary maps 
from name space AllieSpringCave by @AllieSpringCave.

> This map contains seven subsidiary maps and is defined outside of a 
> survey/endsurvey block.  But all of those subsidiary maps are defined inside 
> a survey/endsurvey block.  So does AllieMainPlan contain the survey at the 
> second level, and the survey contains the subsidiary maps at the third level? 
>  If true, then why does it not show up that way in xtherion?

Any command input is only copy/paste piece of plaint text. So if you input 
../AllieSpringCaveSurvey/AllieSpringCave.th  into 
name space "survey all-endsurvey“, map AllieMainPlan become object in this name 
space and name space "survey AllieSpringCave-endsurvey“ become enclosed name 
space. 

> Martin - In a different email you mentioned that MainPassages is not part of 
> AllieSpringCave.  I don't understand that.  AllieSpringCave is the name of a 
> survey/endsurvey block, and inside that block are seven map/endmap blocks.  
> One of those map blocks is MainPassages.  It seems to me that the 
> survey/endsurvey block contains the map/endmap blocks and therefore the names 
> they define should be part of the survey namespace.
> 
I was probably totaly wrong. Map AllieMainPlan is not part of name space 
"survey AllieSpringCave-endsurvey"

What will Therion produce from your original files if you in thconfig select 
only „select AllieMainPlan@all“?

Or may you try to add that select command by doubleclick on map AllieMainPlan 
in structure of maps in right side panel?

May you publish screenshot of that rightside panel with structure of maps, 
please?

Martin



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Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

As always, bathroom effect ;)

There is a typical problem in data - badly used name spaces.

You defined in file BigCavernRanch.th: 

survey all -title "Big Cavern Ranch"

# Name the input caves
input ../AllieSpringCaveSurvey/AllieSpringCave.th
input ../MillCreekCaveSurvey/MillCreekCave.th
input ../ShiftyRockPit/ShiftyRockPit.th
input ../CascadeCaverns/CascadeCaverns.th

map MapGroup -projection plan
# Allie Spring Cave
 MainPassages@AllieSpringCave 
…

but the map MainPassages is not part of name space AllieSpringCave! It is 
defined outside of survey AllieSpringCave, so after you input 
AllieSpringCave.th file into survey all it will become part of the name space 
all.

Correct definition of map all should be:

map MapGroup -projection plan
# Allie Spring Cave
 MainPassages
... 

because map MapGroup is defined inside survey (name space) all so map and 
submap are in the same name space.

I assume it is the case of other submaps too.

Martin
 


> 14. 11. 2019 v 3:46, Bill Gee :
> 
> Hi Bruce and everyone else -
>  
> It is time to revisit this topic.  We had our big survey weekend a few days 
> ago, and now I am trying to get the group map to display the offsets.  There 
> is something bloody obvious that I am missing.
>  
> Attached are three sample files.  The thconfig file is from the group map 
> BigCavernRanch.  I also included the .th file from BigCavernRanch, and the 
> .th file from one of the individual caves.
>  
> This set of files compiles without error but the offsets are NOT displayed.
>  
> I tried creating a map statement in the BigCavernRanch .th file which 
> mentioned the four main maps, then doing a "select" on that map in the 
> thconfig.  That produced errors saying that objects did not exist.
>  
> If I open the BigCavernRanch files in xtherion and then look at the boxes for 
> survey structure and map structure, they are completely empty.
>  
> The individual cave maps all compile correctly and display offsets the way 
> they should.  The survey and map structure boxes in xtherion are not empty.
>  
> -- 
> Bill Gee
>  
>  
> 
> On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 1:17:46 PM CST Bruce Mutton wrote:
> > Bill
> > 
> > As Martin suggested, you just need to define a top-level map, and select
> > that for output.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Here is a snip of a top level map that is part of a set of maps I have used
> > to highlight chronology in atlas outputs.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > map 2009-2011PlanMap \
> > 
> >   -title "MiddleEarth 2009-2011 Plan" \
> > 
> >   -projection plan
> > 
> >   preview above 2017-PlanMap  
> > 
> >   preview above 2014-2015-PlanMap
> > 
> >   preview above 2013-PlanMap   
> > 
> >   preview above 2012-PlanMap   
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   #Deck Extension
> > 
> >   DB-DeckExtensionPlan@MiddleEarth
> > 
> >   DD-SandyWayPlan@MiddleEarth
> > 
> >   DE-BermudaTriPlan@MiddleEarth
> > 
> >   DF-DeckEndPlan@MiddleEarth
> > 
> >   DO-UpperBermudaPlan@MiddleEarth
> > 
> >   IZ-wotsumpPlan@MiddleEarth
> > 
> >   
> > 
> >   preview below 1995-2008PlanMap 
> > 
> >   preview below 1983-1994PlanMap
> > 
> >   preview below 1979-1982PlanMap
> > 
> >   preview below 1974-1978PlanMap
> > 
> > endmap
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your relationship of scraps and maps to surveys is different to what I use,
> > so the namespace relationship will be different.
> > 
> > The first time, you may need to figure it out yourself, but once you have
> > done that you can compile your project, then in the compiler window, double
> > click on the component map to select it with its correct path.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Bruce
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: Therion  > > On Behalf Of Bill Gee
> > Sent: Thursday, 31 October 2019 03:37
> > To: therion@speleo.sk 
> > Subject: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Hi Bruce -
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Yes, I am now referring to PDF outputs. It has not bothered me enough to
> > chase down the solution. I am pretty sure there is some combination of map
> > and select statements that will do the trick. The last time I thought much
> > about this, the problem I came up with was how to tell the 
> > BigCavernRanch.th 
> > file the names of the various maps in the other .th files. I don't know how
> > the scope of the name spaces works in this kind of configuration.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The issue will probably become more annoying in a few weeks. We are planning
> > a major survey expedition to these caves for Nov 10-11, and I will have a
> > lot of new data to work with. The passage that I want to offset is
> > particularly difficult, less than 12 inches high for most of its known
> > length, so there are very few people who are willing to do survey in there.
> > At least it is in dry clay! No water to deal with.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The old maps you have may not include this passage. It takes off from the
> > top of Texas Dome, which is in the far 

Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 14. 11. 2019 v 8:45, Martin Sluka via Therion :
> 
> survey all.survey

Sorry, it will work only in very simple case, dot is a part of „path“ on right 
side of object after „@„

So NOT use dot in names of surveys.

I any case you may use underline or something else - all_survey

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Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> If I open the BigCavernRanch files in xtherion and then look at the boxes for 
> survey structure and map structure, they are completely empty.

You may see that structure only after successful compilation.


> 14. 11. 2019 v 3:46, Bill Gee :
> 
> I tried creating a map statement in the BigCavernRanch .th file which 
> mentioned the four main maps, then doing a "select" on that map in the 
> thconfig.  That produced errors saying that objects did not exist.
>  

What will happen if you try select only AllieMainPlan in your thconfig? Map 
„AllieMainPlan" is a part of the "all“ name-space so it should work.

Just a note: in such complicated projects I prefer to use extensions for names 
of surveys, scraps, maps, for example 

map AllieMainPlan.map
scrap Entrance1.scrap
survey all.survey

Names of objects are a bit longer, but later it is clear, what the name of 
object means.

Martin


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Re: [Therion] Breaking a loop at a specific station on extended elevation

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

12. 11. 2019 v 19:25, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> While I would welcome Therion improvement in this space, I am a little
> concerned about all of my existing extended elevations that might be broken
> by changes in behaviour.  I'm sure this eventuality can be accommodated by
> clever coders however.

There are three variants:

extend ignore 5 6
extend ignore 6 5
extend ignore 6

Each one generates different export, but only that one, which is the most not 
logic - extended ignore 5 6 - generates what is expected. 

Try to generate files for "extend ignore X” for X = 2, 3, 4, 5

If the Therion’s code will be corrected, there should be two variants anyway - 
first uncorrected for existing projects and another one (correct) for new 
projects. 

Martin

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Re: [Therion] Breaking a loop at a specific station on extended elevation

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 10. 11. 2019 v 12:07, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> This does not work. 

You are right. It is very strange it break centreline in station 2 and not in 
station 5 or 6.

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Re: [Therion] Breaking a loop at a specific station on extended elevation

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

9. 11. 2019 v 20:46, Bruce Mutton :Can someone please tell us the magic formula of extend commands that will produce the desired output?Hi Tarquin,try to change the line in your .th file from:extend ignore 6 5to:extend ignore 5 6There is no leg 6-5 in your data, but there is leg 5-6.Martin

extendedloopEXT.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Therion] Horrific Warping between maps where I want my lines to join

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

An advice to beginners:

1. Always check each scrap independently for “holes”. Such hole indicate 
incorrect position of walls according to base principle of drawing a map: The 
map is the projection of a passage to horizontal plane and the walls are 
borders of such projections. So there MUST NOT be walls inside (excluding walls 
with parameter “-outline none” for some reasons) the borders of such passage. 
Holes will produce mess in warping, joining and 3D models. They are incorrect 
in any way, because there is not unspecified rock (background) inside a passage.

Export map of a crap with these lines in layout to see the holes.:

layout check_holes
symbol-hide group all
symbol-show line wall
debug station-names #for better orientation only
colour map-bg 85
end layout

export map …. layout check_holes

2. When there is a complicated situation to draw passage in one scrap divide 
the scrap to smaller ones just to simplify the process.

3. Always check two (or more) scraps to be joined for overlaps and  continuity 
of walls of adjoining scraps before any joining.

4. A pit, a chimney or a hole among blocks is a gap to join scraps together 
too. But you should use manual joining point of line to point of line in such 
case.

Martin

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Re: [Therion] Horrific Warping between maps where I want my lines to join

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

There could be simple explanation, way those two sketches are so different:

On sketch of Bob Clay there is something as a hump from blocks south of station 
1. On your sketch it looks as you not mentioned it as a hump but as a wall.

Try to correct your sketch according this presumption and correct the 
overlapping ends.

There is still a problem with morphing of scrap alien_weaponry somewhere. 

Martin


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Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** kml icon path

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

I saved kml from Google Earth with custom icon. Not from Therion. 

I’ll try it from Therion. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

30. 10. 2019 v 19:21, Bruce Mutton :

> Thanks Martin
> Can you send the whole kml file.  I tried to build one from the snippet 
> below, but of course there are no coordinates and it became a bit fiddly.
> The structure below is similar to what is produced on my machine, but the 
> nesting is not enumerated as nicely as yours.
> I am still using bd62e22 (2019-06-25)
>  
>  <IconStyle> <Icon> 
> <href><a  rel="nofollow" href="https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png">https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png</a></href> </Icon> 
> <hotSpot x="0.5" y="0" xunits="fraction" yunits="fraction" /> </IconStyle> 
> 
>  https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconModel.png 
> 
>  
> Bruce
>  
> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via 
> Therion
> Sent: Thursday, 31 October 2019 02:25
> To: List for Therion users 
> Cc: Martin Sluka 
> Subject: Re: [Therion] kml icon path
>  
> 29. 10. 2019 v 20:00, Bruce Mutton :
>  
> My kml  file icon paths seem to match those in Bill’s example kml files. 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png
>  
> Hi Bruce,
>  
> it works for me. Directly from your links. Part of file is from Google Earth 
> save place:
>  
> 
> test user ikony.kml
> 
> <IconStyle>
> <scale>1.2</scale>
> <Icon>
> 
> <href><a  rel="nofollow" href="https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png">https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png</a></href>
> </Icon>
> <hotSpot x="0.5" y="0.5" 
> xunits="fraction" yunits="fraction"/>
> </IconStyle>
> <ListStyle>
> </ListStyle>
> 
> 
> <IconStyle>
> <Icon>
> 
> <href><a  rel="nofollow" href="https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png">https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png</a></href>
> </Icon>
> <hotSpot x="0.5" y="0.5" 
> xunits="fraction" yunits="fraction"/>
> </IconStyle>
> <ListStyle>
> </ListStyle>
> 
>  
>  
> 
>  
>  
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Re: [Therion] kml icon path

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 29. 10. 2019 v 20:00, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> My kml  file icon paths seem to match those in Bill’s example kml files. 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png 
> 
Hi Bruce,

it works for me. Directly from your links. Part of file is from Google Earth 
save place:


test user ikony.kml


1.2


https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png










https://therion.speleo.sk/downloads/KmlIconEntrance.png











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Re: [Therion] Export Multiple Caves to Single KML Model

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Bill, have you try to define an overall map in the highest survey and select it 
in thconfig?

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

30. 10. 2019 v 0:14, Bill Gee :

> It wasn't even hard! That is, it was not hard AFTER I figured out how to do 
> it :-) Until then it was a pain ...
>  
> There is one feature I have found that does not work. It has not annoyed me 
> enough yet to go looking for a solution. One of my four maps has a section 
> where two passages run pretty much the same way, one directly above the 
> other. In the single-cave map I handled this by setting the upper passage off 
> to the side. That does not come through to the group map. The two passages 
> are drawn on top of each other.
>  
> There is probably some magic I could do with select and map commands to make 
> it happen.
> 
> --
> Bill Gee
>  
>  
> 
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 5:14:00 PM CDT Scott Falkingham wrote:
> > Thanks for the quick responses. With Bill's examples, I was able to get it
> > working.
> >
> > All I had to do was to switch from sourcing multiple .th files in the
> > thconfig to sourcing a single master .th file with its own survey that
> > input the individual .th files in it. Fantastic.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 07:01, Bill Gee  wrote:
> >
> > > I have done this, and it wasn't even hard! The attached files show how I
> > > took four separate cave maps and combined them into one.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Bill Gee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Monday, October 28, 2019 11:24:21 PM CDT Scott Falkingham wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Is it supported to export a model of multiple caves to a single KML 
> > > > file?
> > >
> > > > When I attempt the export, the entrance placemarks of both caves show 
> > > > up,
> > >
> > > > but only the first sourced caves centerline is exported. Not only that,
> > >
> > > > all of the placemarks are grouped in a single folder.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Conversely, exporting a cave-list of multiple caves to KML works as
> > >
> > > > expected, with both caves showing up in individual folders.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Scott
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
> > >
> >
>  
>  
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Re: [Therion] Export Multiple Caves to Single KML Model

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Those red Xs are sign that there is not correct path to that nice entrance 
icon. Check your kml (ASCII) file. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

29. 10. 2019 v 8:40, Bruce Mutton :

> Yes, it should work just fine.  I have a least one from earlier this year 
> with seven cave centrelines and many surface points.
> Only thing that has gone bad (for me) in recent months is that the nice 
> entrance icons are now red Xs.
> 
>  
> Bruce
>  
> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Scott Falkingham
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 October 2019 17:24
> To: therion@speleo.sk
> Subject: [Therion] Export Multiple Caves to Single KML Model
>  
> Hi Folks,
>  
> Is it supported to export a model of multiple caves to a single KML file?  
> When I attempt the export, the entrance placemarks of both caves show up, but 
> only the first sourced caves centerline is exported.   Not only that, all of 
> the placemarks are grouped in a single folder.
>  
> Conversely, exporting a cave-list of multiple caves to KML works as expected, 
> with both caves showing up in individual folders.
>  
> Thanks.
> 
> Scott
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[Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Therion draw line survey in atlas

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

TherionBook (p. 52):

• exclude-pages   ▷ exclude specified pages from cave atlas. The 
list
may contain page numbers separated by a comma or dash (for intervals) e.g. 2,4-
7,9,23 means, that pages 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 23 should be omitted. Only the map
pages should be counted. (Set own-pages 0 and title-pages off to get the correct
page numbers to be excluded.) Changes of own-pages or title-pages options don’t
affect page excluding. (A)

> 23. 10. 2019 v 16:36, Philippe Vernant :
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I’m trying to draw an atlas of the survey lines (the scraps are not drawn 
> yet). But when I do that I have the pages with the lines but also the pages 
> without. Is there a way to toggle something up so I will have my survey lines 
> atlas without the blank pages ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Phil
> 
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Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: RE: scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in Topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

12. 10. 2019 v 17:15, Stacho Mudrak :

I would suggest using just two stations in your 15X scrap for calibration 
(those, that are closest to the horizontal level of this section - e.g. 1_15, 
1_16, 1_18)

Stacho, is there any reason to use for calibrating/(geo)referencing scrap with 
stations which are outside of that scrap?

Martin

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Re: [Therion] scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in Topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

I checked Omri’s data. If I use in that scrap only station, which are 
physically in that scrap 1.9-1.12, everything looks quite OK. What makes the 
problem are stations bellow that scrap (1.13 - 1.17). The  centerline itself is 
OK.

So the solution is NOT to use stations they are not in the scrap itself. But in 
other cases, when such station is not below but beside it doesn’t make 
problems. A bug?

Martin



kimron-26_15Xp.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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[Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Completing symbol sets

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 10. 10. 2019 v 21:08, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> How does it work exactly? What is the list of symbol sets searched by 
> Therion? In which order are they searched? I couldn't find references to this 
> in Therion Book (in another quick search).

Therion/mpost/thTrans.mp - there are all default symbols used by Therion 
defined. You may edit this file. But better way is to use commands in thconfig 
file I think.

Martin


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Re: [Therion] scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in Topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 7. 10. 2019 v 20:31, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> OK, so the distortion looks like a problem with a station name – look around 
> the black or yellow dots.   If you fix that perhaps the scrap with stations 
> will work.

Very often this problem is due to double stations (with different names) in the 
same place or misplaced station. 

In this case it looks as the length (or clino) of centerline shot is not 
correct (horizontal projection is too short). Maybe a typo? Yellow dots are 
positions of stations in sketch, black dots are positions of stations after 
calculation of centerline and loop closure. 

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[Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in Topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 7. 10. 2019 v 8:33, alastair gott :
> 
> wookware.org/surveys/therion/testrocks 
> 
There are not stations in the pdf output of data you linked but it is because 
of line "symbol-hide group cave-centreline“ in thconfig. 

There are two stations in scrap in original data: 

point 342.0 518.0 station -name 1

point 688.0 268.0 station -name 2



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[Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: scrap without stations keeps the original sketch in Topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 7. 10. 2019 v 8:33, alastair gott :
> 
> I know you can have a th2 file with no survey stations in it

There MUST be one or more point station in each scrap except section scraps. 
Each scrap MUST have (geo)reference point(s) which Therion uses to properly 
localize it. If you use only one station there MUST be done manual scale of 
scrap. If you draw section there MUST be manual scale done.

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Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Therion .th2 blank screen

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 1. 10. 2019 v 16:29, dennis mitchell :
> 
> I tried scrolling around and zooming with no luck. There was no lines outside 
> of the normal space. But auto adjusting the drawing area seems to have 
> worked. Thank you

BTW, from which program you import your th2 file?

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Re: [Therion] Therion .th2 blank screen

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

One possibility - there is an object very far from your sketch - typically if 
you use PocketTopo and forget switch pen to arrow still in sketch editor mode 
and manipulation with Pocket PC will generates random lines. You may check it 
down in the right side menu in section Drawing area. 

Select object after object and check its coordinates or coordinates of points 
of line in right menu in sections Point control or Line control. 

The fastest way could be check your .th2 file in plain text editor, find such 
object/s and manually delete the strange points with huge coordinates.

Martin







> 1. 10. 2019 v 5:43, dennis mitchell :
> 
> Hello I have a scrap I'm trying to work on. When opened in the .th2 editor it 
> shows objects in the object box but the drawing screen is blank. 
> <20190930_204253.jpg>___
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Re: [Therion] text

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

It comes from Computer Modern font family used as default for TeX:

Computer Modern Font Family

The standard Computer Modern family includes the following fonts:
cmr
Roman (5--10pt)
cmmi
Math Italic (5--10pt)
cmsy
Math Symbols (5--10pt)
cmex
Math Extension (10pt)
cmss
Sans serif (10pt)
cmssqi
Sans serif quote italic (8pt)
cmssi
Sans serif Italic (10pt)
cmbx
Bold Extended (10pt)
cmtt
Typewriter (8--10pt)
cmsltt
Slanted typewriter (10pt)
cmsl
Slanted roman (8--10pt)
cmti
Text italic (7--10pt)
cmu
Unslanted text italic (10pt)
cmmib
Bold math italic (10pt)
cmbsy
Bold math symbols (10pt)
cmcsc
Caps and Small caps (10pt)
cmssbx
Sans serif bold extended (10pt)
cmdunh
Dunhill style (10pt)
 <>
Martin

> 26. 9. 2019 v 15:26, Andrew Atkinson :
> 
> I've been adding text and in the thbook p26 under text
> 
> ", , , ,  ▷ font switches"
> 
> They all work apart from  which as far as I can tell, does nothing?
> 
> What is it mean to do?
> 
> Therion 5.4.3 on Debian
> 
> thanks
> 
> Andrew
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Re: [Therion] ceiling step in the wrong direction when exported from topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 23. 9. 2019 v 1:08, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> To ‘compensate’ by reversing lines may result in a project that plots 
> incorrectly when you toggle to another symbol set (I occasionally produce 
> both NZSS and UIS versions of maps, and these have the opposite convention).  
>  It also tends to destroy loch models, as line:pit orientation governs model 
> generation, and chimney and meander etc could potentially in the future.  
> Passage shading in pdf outputs can be affected to.

There is one basic principle of using Therion for map production: One doesn’t 
draw map In Therion, but „construct“ it instead.

The yellow tick on line shows the „empty space side“ (and beginning of line) of 
line symbol in case mentioned in 
https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist#wall . This information is used 
for generation of loch models and others as Bruce mentioned. The orientation of 
small ticks on line symbol „ceiling step“ depends on definition of line symbol 
itself in particular symbol set. 

So correct way is to draw line symbol „ceiling step“ with orientation of yellow 
tick to „empty space“ and use symbol line „ceiling step“ representation you 
want. With small ticks in the same direction as yellow tick or in opposite 
direction.

Martin

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Re: [Therion] ceiling step in the wrong direction when exported from topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 20. 9. 2019 v 14:14, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> Therion seems to default to using SKBB
> notation, while TopoDroid probably uses UIS.

You may change default symbol Therion will use for your project in thTrans.mp 
file - /Therion/mpost/thTrans.mp

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[Therion] Fwd: ceiling step in the wrong direction when exported from topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> Začátek přeposílané zprávy:
> 
> Od: Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion 
> Předmět: Re: [Therion] ceiling step in the wrong direction when exported from 
> topodroid
> Datum: 20. září 2019 14:14:06 SELČ
> Komu: therion@speleo.sk
> Kopie: Tarquin Wilton-Jones 
> Odpověď na: List for Therion users 
> 
> NZSS and UIS default to having the tail of the symbol in one direction,
> while SKBB has it the other way. Therion seems to default to using SKBB
> notation, while TopoDroid probably uses UIS.

As I may say, the idea of SKBB is that ticks are "in air” as in case of pit or 
floor-step line. So the ceiling is higher on side where are ticks.

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Re: [Therion] ceiling step in the wrong direction when exported from topodroid

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Anyway you may reverse the direction of line in Therion.

Martin

> 20. 9. 2019 v 7:02, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com⁩>:
> 
> Hi,
> I've noticed that when I export sketches from Topodroid to Therion all of the 
> ceiling step lines are in the wrong direction. it doesn't happen in the other 
> lines...
> 
> has anyone else had this problem?
> 
> 
> 
> Omri Gaster
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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 8. 9. 2019 v 9:20, Bruce Mutton :
> 
>> I dislike taking out a survey shot.  Maybe the thing to do is have a 
>> different centerline data file for generating this profile.
> 
> You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick.  Better than 
> removing data or duplicating it.
> This 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines
>  may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights.
> Bruce
> 

It does crazy things. Maybe if there will be added another parameter to command 
extend - something as „no-loop“. But I’m not sure how much modification of code 
it would require.

Martin

extend hide G14-G1


StarkCavernsExtended_extend_hide_G14_G1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


extend ignore G14-G1


StarkCavernsExtended_extend_ignore_G14_G1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 8. 9. 2019 v 9:20, Bruce Mutton :
> 
>> I dislike taking out a survey shot.  Maybe the thing to do is have a 
>> different centerline data file for generating this profile.
> 
> You could see if extend hide or extend ignore will do the trick.  Better than 
> removing data or duplicating it.
> This 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/extend?s[]=extend#summary_of_all_extend_options_for_survey_centrelines
>  may not be directly applicable, but may give some insights.
> Bruce

I’m not sure it may have any effect. If there is shot the G14-G1 Therion will 
calculate with a loop. 

Martin
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Re: [Therion] Detecting errors

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 7. 9. 2019 v 13:33, Ben Cooper :
> 
> I think I see what you mean now, the following drawing portrays the issue 
> with a Disto sitting on top of one station, and pointing to another.

That is the reason to use extension.

Martin

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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 6. 9. 2019 v 17:41, Bill Gee :
> 
> I want one continuous profile extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the 
> right. 

Just commented G14-G1, a bit shorted ends of scraps  on station G10 and added 
join command.

Martin



StarkCavernsExtended_no_loop_G14_G1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Hi Bill,

> 6. 9. 2019 v 17:41, Bill Gee :
> 
> Thanks!  This is much better, but still not what I want.  I don't want the 
> profile to fold back on itself at all.  I want one continuous profile 
> extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the right.  Is that possible?

I’m not sure if this is possible without using another centreline file where 
the loop will be not closed. So for map you should have data with loops and for 
extended profile without loops. 

> If I draw them as "projection none", then two questions come up.  First, if I 
> put survey stations in the scrap will they be used to scale the drawing?  
> Second, can two (or more) such scraps be joined?

I don’t know this is possible. Projection none is for sections only.  

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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Hi Bill,

it looks you have not defined „extend“ of centerline in your centerline data. 

Because extend right is default Therion will extend your stations form OC5a to 
the right, but it has to close the loop and there should be the problem.

Your scrap extended Profile-OC5a-G10 includes stations OC5a to G10, stations 
OC5a-G are extended to East but stations C9 and C10 are extended to West.

Try to divide that loop to two scraps from OC5a to G8 and G8 to G14 and add 
extend commands. Not use join commands for first elevation export.

 extend right
OC5a  G1 19.6   134 3.0314-3.0   1.0 9.8 18.7 3.5
  G1G2 20.4   13329.0313   -28.0   3.0 6.6 17.3 4.2
  G2G3 21.2   12513.0306   -13.0   2.3 3.0 9.3 6.4
  G3G4 22.660 4.0239-5.0   6.2 2.0 4.8 2.4
  G4G5  4.548   -10.022810.0   2.6 1.7 1.2 0.3
  G5G6 12.3   10118.0281   -18.0   1.5 1.5 7.2 0.3
  G6G7  9.0   127 7.0308-7.0   7.3 16.2 5.1 2.0
  G7G8 10.944-8.0225 8.0   12.8 10.4 4.1 2.3
  extend left
G8G9  8.5   335   -15.015716.0   8.5 27.4 2.7 3.1
  G9G1015.5   307-1.0128.5   1.0   3.4 3.9 0.7 0.8
  G10   G1132.0   267-1.5 88.5   2.0   7.4 5.6 0.5 1.0
  G11   G1221.8   262 0.0 81 0.0   1.7 4.8 1.5 1.4
  G12   G13 5.7   246 6.0  --6.0   1.8 3.0 1.0 2.0
  G13   G1413.9   236   -61.0 5762.0   - - - -
  extend hide 
G14   G1  5.9 -   -32.022032.0   - - - -
  
flags splay
  G1G1a12.9   200-6.0  - 6.0   20.0 20.0 17.3 4.2
  G7G7a18.4   24912.0  -   -12.0   10.4 12.8 4.1 2.3
flags not splay

Add command select to your thconfig file

source StarkCaverns.th

select StarkCavernsProfiles@StarkCavernsProfiles


# Load the Metapost code for custom symbols

and add to scrap  G10-G14 (G8-G14) parameter -flip horizontal, because in 
output it should be flipped.



Martin



StarkCavernsElevations-G10-G14.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


StarkCavernsElevations-OC5a-G10.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

And after some editing:



StarkCavernsElevations-OC5a-G14.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document




> 6. 9. 2019 v 16:09, Bill Gee :
> 
> Hi Martin -
> 
> This is a commercial cave - there are no secrets!  The attached ZIP file has 
> the thconfig, .th, .th2 and centerline data files for the whole project.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Gee
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, September 6, 2019 8:50:38 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote:
>> Bill, 
>> 
>> may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>>> 6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee :
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone -
>>> 
>>> I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years 
>>> because it is such a pain to do in Therion.  The time has come where I need 
>>> to start adding them to several maps in progress.  
>>> 
>>> In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given 
>>> them a viewpoint angle.  The profile I am working on now will not work for 
>>> that because it basically goes around in a circle.  There is no viewpoint 
>>> angle where the entire profile lays out in a line.  The plan view is a loop.
>>> 
>>> So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended".  Holy cow, that 
>>> makes a mess of things!  Take a look at the attached file.  This is so 
>>> distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing!  The 
>>> stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle.  The 
>>> upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times 
>>> larger than it should be.
>>> 
>>> What am I missing???  Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap 
>>> should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch?  How should I 
>>> be drawing
>>> 
>>> Maybe I should completely skip using elevations.  I can probably make them 
>>> work by drawing as cross-sections.  Indeed, that might be easier to fit 
>>> onto the final map.  I think the only real problem there is whether 
>>> cross-section scraps can be joined.
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Bill, 

may you publish all your data? Or send it privately?

Martin

> 6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee :
> 
> Hello everyone -
> 
> I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years 
> because it is such a pain to do in Therion.  The time has come where I need 
> to start adding them to several maps in progress.  
> 
> In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given 
> them a viewpoint angle.  The profile I am working on now will not work for 
> that because it basically goes around in a circle.  There is no viewpoint 
> angle where the entire profile lays out in a line.  The plan view is a loop.
> 
> So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended".  Holy cow, that makes 
> a mess of things!  Take a look at the attached file.  This is so distorted it 
> is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing!  The stations in this 
> profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle.  The upper half of the 
> resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times larger than it 
> should be.
> 
> What am I missing???  Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap 
> should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch?  How should I be 
> drawing
> 
> Maybe I should completely skip using elevations.  I can probably make them 
> work by drawing as cross-sections.  Indeed, that might be easier to fit onto 
> the final map.  I think the only real problem there is whether cross-section 
> scraps can be joined.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Gee
> 
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Re: [Therion] Detecting errors

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

You are the wizard, but for as normal people the physical laws are valid. ;)

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

6. 9. 2019 v 10:39, Pavel Herich :

> Martin,
> I´ve never used this back extention, but before every "topo day" I use to 
> calibrate DistoX, which brings me errors under 0,5 % permanetly, very rarely 
> between 0,5 - 1 %.
> Pavel
> 
> 
> Dňa 2019-09-06 10:00 Martin Sluka via Therion napísal(a):
>>> 5. 9. 2019 v 13:10, Max D :
>>> So I know that if the display is to the right the Disto tends to
>>> reassure an Azimuth 2 degrees to high and if the display is to the
>>> left.
>>> And when the display is to the left it tends to give an Azimuth 1
>>> degree to low.
>> The main source of error could be misaligned back side of Disto with
>> station point especially together with short distance to measured
>> station. There is a way to reduce this error to minimum when the back
>> extension aligned with laser beam of the Disto is used.
>> Martin
>> ___
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Re: [Therion] Detecting errors

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Somebody else could answer you more detailed.

> 15. 8. 2019 v 10:17, MD :
> 
> Our current project is nearing 2000 Stations in a labyrinth and things start 
> to get cumbersome. We have more than 100 Loops detected by therion.
> 
> I wonder what people use to find errors. For example im I have too loops L1 
> and L2 and L1 is “good” (0.1% error) while L2 is “bad” (4% error) i can 
> assume that the error is in the stations/shots which are part of L2 but not 
> L1. Is there an automated approach for that?

Not automated. You may use Survex method for loop closure and check detailed 
report in therion.log. If you compile (export to PDF) data (or particular data) 
with parameter -d (debug) you should receive graphical representation of the 
biggest error - the yellow line.

> We have Disto X (no transcription errors possible) and  traditional 
> (transcription errors likely) surveys. How to handle that?

You may set errors for data in any particular centerline section - ''sd'' 
parameter

Martin

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Re: [Therion] Placing part of a map below another

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 29. 7. 2019 v 9:56, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> Is a problem as ‘maps off’ is a nice way to disable offsets and 
> cross-sections for overview maps.

  #hide sections

  symbol-hide point section  #cross section locations

  symbol-hide line section   #cross section cutting planes
doesn’t work?

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Re: [Therion] Placing part of a map below another

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Break will not work in map definition from maps. Only sequence of particular 
maps works. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

26. 7. 2019 v 18:46, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

> Hi Bill,
> 
>> When I set up the map in the .th file, I created a map for "MainPassages" 
>> and another for "LowerStream".
> 
> 
> You don't normally need to do this. You can just put the two scraps into
> the same map like this:
> 
> map outermap
>  mainpassagesscrap
>  break
>  lowerstreamscrap
> endmap
> 
> This will display the lower stream's scrap below the main passages
> scrap. Or if you want to keep your two maps, then this should work:
> 
> map outermap
>  MainPassages
>  break
>  LowerStream
> endmap
> 
> Make sure your .thconfig file has:
> 
> select outermap@surveyname
> 
> I think this is the most likely cause of your problem - if you don't
> select the right map, Therion will select all of the scraps, without any
> control over stacking order.
> 
>> "[0 0] below"
> 
> 
> This is something very different, and not related to stacking order. It
> is used to offset a map from its natural position, and leave a shadow
> "below" the other maps where it would normally have been. "0 0" would
> not offset it at all, so you are asking Therion to draw the map in its
> natural position, and leave a shadow ... also in its natural position
> ... below the map.
> 
> Probably not what you were looking for :)
> 
> Hope this is useful.
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] merge lines in xtherion

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

No

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

25. 7. 2019 v 22:51, עמרי גסטר :

> Hi everyone,
> I want to merge two wall lines into one line 
> is there a way to do that in xtherion?
> 
> I know I can do that in notepad but it would be much easier if there is a way 
> to do it in xtherion
> 
> Omri
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
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Re: [Therion] map offset doesn't work

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

you should select the map you want to use for export of map in thconfig file 
first:

test.thconfig:

source test.th

select offset@test

export map



cave.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


> 16. 7. 2019 v 21:58, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com⁩>:
> 
> 

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Re: [Therion] map offset doesn't work

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

What is your thconfig?

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

16. 7. 2019 v 21:58, עמרי גסטר :

> Hi,
> I need some help doing map offset
> 
> I've tried to do work with the explanation on Therion wiki: 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/mapconnectors  but whatever I'm doing it 
> doesn't work.
> 
> I added map connection point in test-1p.th2 scrap, and I'm using the syntax 
> below for the .th file:
> 
> survey test -title "test"
> 
>   centerline
> date 2019.07.16 
> # team Omri Gaster 
> units length meters
> units compass clino degrees
> data normal from to length compass clino
> extend right
> 0 1 5.00 5.0 5.0
> 1 2 3.00 17.0 14.0
> 2 3 5.00 20.0 10.0
>   endcenterline
> 
>   input "test-1p.th2"
>   input "test-2p.th2"
>   
>map offset
>m1p [0 20 m] above
>break
>m2p
>endmap
>
>map m1p -projection plan
> test-1p
>endmap
>   
>map m2p -projection plan
>  test-2p
>endmap
>   
> 
> endsurvey 
> 
> I get this map all the time:
> 
> 
> 
> what am I doing wrong?
> 
> Omri
> -- 
> 
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Re: [Therion] maps on off feature characteristics

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 28. 6. 2019 v 12:16, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> There seems to be a bug regarding map altitudes in all cases, and scrap 
> altitudes where the scraps are empty.  On the other hand it is a good way to 
> highlight the existence of empty scraps!

Several years ago there was publish a regular expression for removing empty 
objects from .th2 files here. Is it complicated to add check for empty object 
to compilation routine?

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Re: [Therion] Different Color for Rocks?

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Take care that PDFKit renders PDFs from Therion in different way than Adobe 
Acrobat and xpdf. PDFKit is not able to render transparency in correct way. The 
same for all other PDF viewers which use PDFKit - like Foxit. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

25. 6. 2019 v 8:19, Max D :

> 
> 
>> On 24. Jun 2019, at 12:00, therion-requ...@speleo.sk wrote:
>> 
>> BTW, what is the PDF viewer the screenshot from you sent?
> 
> It is Apple default "Preview" (PDFKit).
> 
> Bruce, thanks for the Pointer!
> 
> --max
> 
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Re: [Therion] BreakOut 3D cave viewer

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Odesláno z iPhonu

24. 6. 2019 v 18:15, Bill Gee :

> Hello everyone -
> 
> I attended the NSS annual convention in Cookeville, TN last week.  There was 
> a very interesting presentation on a 3D cave viewing software that might be 
> interesting to this group.  The web site is
> 
>https://breakoutcavesurvey.com
> 
> The program is pure Java, so it requires a Java Runtime Environment of some 
> kind.  The whole thing is just one .jar file.The demonstration was on a 
> Mac laptop.  It starts on my desktop running Fedora 30, but gives an OpenGL 
> error on my laptop.  There are probably some missing libraries of some kind.  
> The developer said that it will run on Windows.
> 
> The viewer knows how to deal with Compass and Walls files.  Therion can 
> output a Compass PLT file, so should be able to feed Breakout.  I have not 
> tried this yet.
> 
> -- 
> Bill Gee
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Therion] Different Color for Rocks?

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

It is, check wiki. 

BTW, what is the PDF viewer the screenshot from you sent?

Martin S. 

Odesláno z iPhonu

24. 6. 2019 v 6:23, Max D :

> Currently if I have a closed `rock-border` the contents (the rock) will be 
> drawn slightly darker than the passage fill due to transparency and this area 
> being painted twice - see http://filez.foxel.org/e817c23fd65d
> 
> Is it possible to fill rocks with an other color than the  passage fill color?
> 
> Best regards
> 
> --max
> 
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Re: [Therion] Using 3d Scan Data To Create A Map

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Kevin, is any of those softwares able to create vector outline of projection of 
cloud to a plane?

Martin

> 20. 6. 2019 v 12:43, kevin dixon :
> 
> Those with their own LiDAR instrument will usually have access to
> their LiDAR manufacturer Software and this often includes automated
> rendering of man-made surfaces - results quality depend a lot on the
> LiDAR resolution and accuracy. Natural surfaces such as caves are more
> difficult for Point Cloud software to deal with automatically.
> 
> For the rest of us, you may wish to consider the following open source
> software for Point Clouds:
> MeshLab - lots of functionality, poor interface, I used this a decade
> ago when there were few open source options
> CloudCompare - nice interface, I have not used it for a while
> ParaView - uses PCL (Point Cloud Library), PCL can be used direct
> depending on your coding ability
> PDAL - a library of point cloud tools, need to use something like QGIS
> for results visualisation
> Blender - more for 3D videographics
> 3DTK - 3D Toolkit, not familiar with
> 
> Other options are available.
> 
> Kevin Dixon
> 
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:36 AM Martin Sluka via Therion
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Isn’t it as call for nuclear aircraft carrier to kill a fly?
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> Odesláno z iPhonu
>> 
>> 20. 6. 2019 v 9:33, Pavel Herich :
>> 
>>> This software should do it:
>>> https://geoslam.com/hub/
>>> P.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dňa 2019-06-20 09:26 Martin Sluka via Therion napísal(a):
>>>> I’m curios if there is a software able to create  vector map outline
>>>> from cloud data automatically.
>>>> Martin
>>>> Odesláno z iPhonu
>>>> 19. 6. 2019 v 23:13, kevin dixon :
>>>>> Nick,
>>>>> I have both DistoX2 and LiDAR data for parts of the same cave.
>>>>> All the LiDAR scans were registered to create a single model as normal
>>>>> for LiDAR.
>>>>> The individual scans were then decimated in the Point Cloud Software
>>>>> using a suitable distance to nearest neighbour. I found Survex gets a
>>>>> bit overwhelmed with millions of LiDAR data so you may have to
>>>>> experiment with a suitable distance between adjacent LiDAR data. Each
>>>>> decimated individual scan was then output to LibreOffice Calc and new
>>>>> ranges, bearings and inclinations calculated to create single station
>>>>> Survex files with lots of splays, now all orientated the same way.
>>>>> Dummy traverse observations were created within Survex to link all the
>>>>> LiDAR scan stations based upon the Point Cloud registration
>>>>> coordinates and elevations of the scan stations.
>>>>> I then manually matched the Survex output of the above LiDAR data to
>>>>> some known DistoX2 observations or in your case, perhaps known show
>>>>> cave outline. You can do this within Survex by having your non-LiDAR
>>>>> data as another survey then using a Calibrate Compass figure (may
>>>>> require up to +/-180degrees) within the LiDAR Survex data to change
>>>>> the orientation so as to match the known and also setting one of the
>>>>> LiDAR stations within the Dummy traverse observations to coordinates
>>>>> and elevation that give a good fit with the known data. Several
>>>>> iterations are needed with these.
>>>>> Hope that is self explanatory.
>>>>> Has worked for me - I have a DistoX2 Survex model with very detailed
>>>>> LiDAR data in two large chambers - the resulting LOG file looks a bit
>>>>> weird eg.
>>>>>   1 8659-node.
>>>>>   1 19071-node.
>>>>>   1 21844-node.
>>>>>   1 22774-node.
>>>>>   1 23053-node.
>>>>>   1 24470-node.
>>>>>   1 25278-node.
>>>>> As a side note, part of my project includes a Show Cave and I have not
>>>>> had a problem with insitu metalwork there or on scaffolded sections of
>>>>> the cave. I have always kept the DistoX2 well away from metalwork and
>>>>> when the passage is narrow with metalwork, I have used an intermediate
>>>>> station with DistoX2 observations to it only, never from it.
>>>>> I have considered the use of turned angles to get through a serious
>>>>> metaliferous section - the Leica DST360 could do this for you or a
>>>>> small theodolite - use magnetic obs at each end to

Re: [Therion] Using 3d Scan Data To Create A Map

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Isn’t it as call for nuclear aircraft carrier to kill a fly?

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

20. 6. 2019 v 9:33, Pavel Herich :

> This software should do it:
> https://geoslam.com/hub/
> P.
> 
> 
> Dňa 2019-06-20 09:26 Martin Sluka via Therion napísal(a):
>> I’m curios if there is a software able to create  vector map outline
>> from cloud data automatically.
>> Martin
>> Odesláno z iPhonu
>> 19. 6. 2019 v 23:13, kevin dixon :
>>> Nick,
>>> I have both DistoX2 and LiDAR data for parts of the same cave.
>>> All the LiDAR scans were registered to create a single model as normal
>>> for LiDAR.
>>> The individual scans were then decimated in the Point Cloud Software
>>> using a suitable distance to nearest neighbour. I found Survex gets a
>>> bit overwhelmed with millions of LiDAR data so you may have to
>>> experiment with a suitable distance between adjacent LiDAR data. Each
>>> decimated individual scan was then output to LibreOffice Calc and new
>>> ranges, bearings and inclinations calculated to create single station
>>> Survex files with lots of splays, now all orientated the same way.
>>> Dummy traverse observations were created within Survex to link all the
>>> LiDAR scan stations based upon the Point Cloud registration
>>> coordinates and elevations of the scan stations.
>>> I then manually matched the Survex output of the above LiDAR data to
>>> some known DistoX2 observations or in your case, perhaps known show
>>> cave outline. You can do this within Survex by having your non-LiDAR
>>> data as another survey then using a Calibrate Compass figure (may
>>> require up to +/-180degrees) within the LiDAR Survex data to change
>>> the orientation so as to match the known and also setting one of the
>>> LiDAR stations within the Dummy traverse observations to coordinates
>>> and elevation that give a good fit with the known data. Several
>>> iterations are needed with these.
>>> Hope that is self explanatory.
>>> Has worked for me - I have a DistoX2 Survex model with very detailed
>>> LiDAR data in two large chambers - the resulting LOG file looks a bit
>>> weird eg.
>>>1 8659-node.
>>>1 19071-node.
>>>1 21844-node.
>>>1 22774-node.
>>>1 23053-node.
>>>1 24470-node.
>>>1 25278-node.
>>> As a side note, part of my project includes a Show Cave and I have not
>>> had a problem with insitu metalwork there or on scaffolded sections of
>>> the cave. I have always kept the DistoX2 well away from metalwork and
>>> when the passage is narrow with metalwork, I have used an intermediate
>>> station with DistoX2 observations to it only, never from it.
>>> I have considered the use of turned angles to get through a serious
>>> metaliferous section - the Leica DST360 could do this for you or a
>>> small theodolite - use magnetic obs at each end to orientate it all.
>>> Kevin Dixon
>>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 9:02 PM Nick Bairstow  wrote:
>>>> Hi, Something a bit different for the clever people out there.
>>>> I have been playing with some 3d scan data and have attempted to use it to 
>>>> create a Therion map.
>>>> Firstly we put created an outline of the cave passage using point cloud 
>>>> software and exported as dxf.
>>>> I turned the dxf into a background sketch and drew around it and could 
>>>> output a nice pdf of our cave. Also did a manual scaling. So far so good.
>>>> I added a dummy station and gave it entrance coordinates, then exported as 
>>>> a KML model. When I open the output file Google Earth fly’s to the correct 
>>>> spot and shows a pin with the cave name but no cave.
>>>> My question is , does this fail because we have no survey data, centreline 
>>>> etc and it is impossible to do this or am I missing something.
>>>> As an alternative I can export to an esri shp file and run that though 
>>>> Qgis and get what I want but as I am going to attempt to combine the 3 
>>>> scan data with a several normal disto surveys I would like to see Therion 
>>>> Kml output work if possible to save lots of messing around. (GIS makes my 
>>>> head hurt)
>>>> On a side note using the point cloud software I can slice though the scan 
>>>> data on different planes and pick up lots of detail, rocks and boulders 
>>>> etc. Using the dxf/background image met

Re: [Therion] Using 3d Scan Data To Create A Map

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

I’m curios if there is a software able to create  vector map outline from cloud 
data automatically. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

19. 6. 2019 v 23:13, kevin dixon :

> Nick,
> 
> I have both DistoX2 and LiDAR data for parts of the same cave.
> 
> All the LiDAR scans were registered to create a single model as normal
> for LiDAR.
> The individual scans were then decimated in the Point Cloud Software
> using a suitable distance to nearest neighbour. I found Survex gets a
> bit overwhelmed with millions of LiDAR data so you may have to
> experiment with a suitable distance between adjacent LiDAR data. Each
> decimated individual scan was then output to LibreOffice Calc and new
> ranges, bearings and inclinations calculated to create single station
> Survex files with lots of splays, now all orientated the same way.
> Dummy traverse observations were created within Survex to link all the
> LiDAR scan stations based upon the Point Cloud registration
> coordinates and elevations of the scan stations.
> I then manually matched the Survex output of the above LiDAR data to
> some known DistoX2 observations or in your case, perhaps known show
> cave outline. You can do this within Survex by having your non-LiDAR
> data as another survey then using a Calibrate Compass figure (may
> require up to +/-180degrees) within the LiDAR Survex data to change
> the orientation so as to match the known and also setting one of the
> LiDAR stations within the Dummy traverse observations to coordinates
> and elevation that give a good fit with the known data. Several
> iterations are needed with these.
> 
> Hope that is self explanatory.
> Has worked for me - I have a DistoX2 Survex model with very detailed
> LiDAR data in two large chambers - the resulting LOG file looks a bit
> weird eg.
> 1 8659-node.
> 1 19071-node.
> 1 21844-node.
> 1 22774-node.
> 1 23053-node.
> 1 24470-node.
> 1 25278-node.
> 
> As a side note, part of my project includes a Show Cave and I have not
> had a problem with insitu metalwork there or on scaffolded sections of
> the cave. I have always kept the DistoX2 well away from metalwork and
> when the passage is narrow with metalwork, I have used an intermediate
> station with DistoX2 observations to it only, never from it.
> I have considered the use of turned angles to get through a serious
> metaliferous section - the Leica DST360 could do this for you or a
> small theodolite - use magnetic obs at each end to orientate it all.
> 
> Kevin Dixon
> 
>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 9:02 PM Nick Bairstow  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, Something a bit different for the clever people out there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I have been playing with some 3d scan data and have attempted to use it to 
>> create a Therion map.
>> 
>> Firstly we put created an outline of the cave passage using point cloud 
>> software and exported as dxf.
>> 
>> I turned the dxf into a background sketch and drew around it and could 
>> output a nice pdf of our cave. Also did a manual scaling. So far so good.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I added a dummy station and gave it entrance coordinates, then exported as a 
>> KML model. When I open the output file Google Earth fly’s to the correct 
>> spot and shows a pin with the cave name but no cave.
>> 
>> My question is , does this fail because we have no survey data, centreline 
>> etc and it is impossible to do this or am I missing something.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As an alternative I can export to an esri shp file and run that though Qgis 
>> and get what I want but as I am going to attempt to combine the 3 scan data 
>> with a several normal disto surveys I would like to see Therion Kml output 
>> work if possible to save lots of messing around. (GIS makes my head hurt)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On a side note using the point cloud software I can slice though the scan 
>> data on different planes and pick up lots of detail, rocks and boulders etc. 
>> Using the dxf/background image method I should be able to get a very 
>> accurate representation of the passage. I can hear you all saying what the 
>> hell is he doing that for when he could just survey the cave in the normal 
>> way! Well the cave is a show cave and absolutely rammed with metal walkways 
>> and cables. Disto tests showed wild inaccuracy’s so it was looking like the 
>> only viable option was going to be to use a Total Station device which we 
>> don’t have.  We then had a very kind offer to scan the cave, this has proved 
>> to be very interesting but drawing a normal map is a bit of a challenge 
>> although it seems not impossible.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nick
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Therion] Sorting scraps/maps by height in default mode

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Just an illustration of problem of calculation of relative position of scraps 
based on average altitude of stations. Blue station(s) is bellow pink 
station(s), but blue scrap is above pink scrap.

Martin



> 3. 6. 2019 v 8:21, Benedikt Hallinger :
> 
> Good morning,
> thank you for that info!
> Would it be a huge effort to make such an option available? Just asking.
> 
> To define the top level hierarchies, it would be cool to somehow get the 
> altitude-sorted map names from some debug log or so. That list could be used 
> directly to construct the map-command block that reproduces the current 
> result. This would drastically reduce the effort.
> Would it be possible to add a debug log output command, that produces such a 
> list? Or is it already possible to get that list somehow, for example from 
> the sql database output?
> 

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Re: [Therion] changing wall line symbol

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

I did similar thing in one map transferred to Therion from Illustrator. See 
attached image. 

The principle is I made an underlaying dummy scrap filled with area with pink 
colour bounded by wall type invisible. The profile is filled by colour by color 
map-fg command. So in final map the pink area is overlaid by map of cave.

But it was made by hand drawing not generated as special kind of line wall.

Martin

 

> 26. 5. 2019 v 12:53, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:omri...@gmail.com>⁩>:
> 
> thanks for the answers
> 
> I don't know what Metapost or CSS box-shadow are (yet...)
> 
> I'll do a bit of reading about it and try to make it work
> 
> On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 11:09 AM Martin Sluka via Therion  <mailto:therion@speleo.sk>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 26. 5. 2019 v 9:56, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion > <mailto:therion@speleo.sk>>:
>> 
>> It may be possible to do this with CSS and SVG too. Export your cave
>> survey as SVG, and use CSS box-shadow to add an outline.
> 
> You may do it directly in Metapost.
> 
> Martin
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> 
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Re: [Therion] Aligned cross sections for multiple passages

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 26. 5. 2019 v 18:36, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> I have an idea that might just be crazy enough to work. If only I could
> get Therion to output an XVI file containing the stations and splays I
> am interested in.

Do you have stations in all the sections?

What to generate xvi file as in your example but without selections

source “cystanog.th "
export map -projection [elevation 355] -fmt xvi -output “centerline.xvi"

In that case you receive xvi of all survey in cystanog.th 

If you use it as background image and create a scrap in which only those three 
stations and profiles will be defined and exported map with that scrap, you 
receive what you need. Not use point station in that scrap, and set its 
projection as none. I’m not sure what it will do with scale option in layout.

Then input the .th2 file with that scrap to .th file and use in plan scraps for 
section the name of that scrap as reference.

It should work.

My .th file, r means sections, s means scraps:

survey xx -title “"

input xx_s1_500.th2
input xx_s2_500.th2
input xx_s3_500.th2
input xx_s4_500.th2
input xx_s5_500.th2
input xx_podklad.th2
input xx_r1.th2
input xx_r2.th2
input xx_r3.th2
input xx_r4.th2
input xx_r5.th2
input xx_r6.th2
input xx_r7.th2
input xx_r8.th2
input xx_r9.th2
input xx_r10.th2
input scalebar.th2


centreline
…

endsurvey

And in plan .th2 is reference to section:

point 752.0 3128.0 section -scrap r8

because all the scraps are part of one namespace - survey xx.

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Re: [Therion] changing wall line symbol

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 26. 5. 2019 v 9:56, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> It may be possible to do this with CSS and SVG too. Export your cave
> survey as SVG, and use CSS box-shadow to add an outline.

You may do it directly in Metapost.

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Re: [Therion] changing wall line symbol

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Check line pit_AUT - it use two parallel lines, so there should by way to 
generate line as you want.

Martin

> 26. 5. 2019 v 7:29, ⁨עמרי גסטר⁩ <⁨omri...@gmail.com⁩>:
> 
> I know the option of "color map-bg", I'm looking for something more similar 
> to the image I sent.
> 
> I think it can work for most of the cave's (that the wall doesn't cross each 
> other). 
>  
> In our maps all the levels are shifted so there is no cross between the wall 
> lines in the final map.
> what I can do is generate a map for each level and then finish the 
> cartography in illustrator.
> 
> Cheers,,
> Omri
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 25 May 2019, 20:34 Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion, 
> mailto:therion@speleo.sk>> wrote:
> Hi Omri,
> 
> The usual way that passages are drawn with a background is simply to set
> the "color map-bg (93,82,62)" option in your "layout". But that does not
> colour an outline of the passage like you have shown.
> 
> > the wall line in all the map we made so far looks like this:
> 
> 
> What would you want to happen when two passages cross each other? Should
> the beige outline go over the lower passage or not?
> 
> If it does go over the lower passage, you can probably do it with a new
> wall subtype (or redefine the existing ones), using metapost to define
> the custom wall line to have a black pen with a coloured pen outline
> beside it.
> 
> If you want to have the upper passage's beige outline clipped by the
> lower passage ... I don't know if that is possible, but I have not seen
> a way to do it.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Automatic scaling of itm xxtPDF output

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

I apologize myself, I forgot to add: Don’t use loss compresion format as JPEG!

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

24. 5. 2019 v 12:49, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

>> Take care that softwares used for preparation of data for printing (RIP) may 
>> have problems with rasterisation of vector data - from there is limit for 
>> line width. More secure way is to rasterize pdf to bitmap with high 
>> resolution, let’s say 600 dpi, and send such file to magazine. 
> 
> 
> Thanks very much for the advice :)
> 
> In this case, I know the publisher personally, and I know he uses vector
> graphics for preparation. He has specifically asked for the PDF output,
> so we're all good. But yes, it was worth checking, for the reason you
> stated :)
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Re: [Therion] Automatic scaling of itm xxtPDF output

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Take care that softwares used for preparation of data for printing (RIP) may 
have problems with rasterisation of vector data - from there is limit for line 
width. More secure way is to rasterize pdf to bitmap with high resolution, 
let’s say 600 dpi, and send such file to magazine. 

Martin Sluka

Odesláno z iPhonu

24. 5. 2019 v 10:59, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

> Hi,
> 
> I am sure this must have been asked before, but was not able to find
> anything in the mailing list archives or wiki...
> 
> Our survey is going to be published in a magazine. The magazine has very
> strict limits on the survey size; 28 cm x 18 cm max, with limits on line
> thickness as well. Making the final PDF survey the right size is done
> with the layout "scale" definition, but this means I need to very
> carefully (painfully) recalculate it whenever an extension changes the
> size of the survey.
> 
> Main question; Is there a way to make Therion automatically calculate
> the correct scale to fit certain dimensions?
> 
> (I do understand that this might be impossible, since the output can
> change based on the scale, so it would become an iterative process. I am
> just hoping there might be some magic.)
> 
> 
> 
> For those interested, I have used code metapost to set the line
> thicknesses so that they work according to the minimum line thickness:
> 
> def minimumpen = 0.18pt enddef;
> def PenA = pencircle scaled (minimumpen*1/0.35) enddef;
> def PenB = pencircle scaled (minimumpen*0.7/0.35) enddef;
> def PenC = pencircle scaled (minimumpen*0.5/0.35) enddef;
> def PenD = pencircle scaled (minimumpen) enddef;
> def PenX = pencircle scaled (minimumpen*1.2/0.35) enddef;
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for any assistance.
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Setting scale on custom symbol

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

From: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265062623_Tutorial_in_MetaPost

interim - Make a local change to an internal variable

Martin Sluka


> 15. 5. 2019 v 9:23, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> Hi Bill
> I think that merging what you have with an interim defaultscale:=0.6; 
> variable as demonstrated by Thomas Holder here 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#special_symbol_examples will do the 
> trick.
> You probably want to keep the sc in def p_u_electriclight (expr 
> pos,theta,sc,al), and multiply it by defaultscale before calling 
> T:=identity...
> Probably some trial and error involved.
> Bruce
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Bill Gee
> Sent: Monday, 13 May 2019 06:14
> To: Therion Mail List 
> Subject: [Therion] Setting scale on custom symbol
> 
> Hello everyone - 
> 
> I have defined a custom symbol for electric light fixtures.  The MetaPost 
> code is below.  Now that I have used it, I find that it draws the symbol too 
> large.  I tried using "-scale small" and "-scale tiny", and that helps.  
> Rather than go through and add that to every point, I would like to change 
> the MetaPost so it draws the symbol a bit smaller.
> 
> And I am lazy!  I could replot all the points for each of the lines.  It 
> seems to me there should be a simpler way.  I tried messing with the U:= 
> parameters, but they seem to make no difference whatever.
> 
> Is there a way I can declare a multiplier in the MetaPost code?  Perhaps 
> declaring u = 0.6u?
> 
> Thanks!
> -- 
> Bill Gee
> 
> # This code defines an artificial electric light.  Used in tourist sections 
> of a cave.
>def p_u_electriclight (expr pos,theta,sc,al) =
>  U:=(0.3u, 0.3u);
>  T:=identity aligned al rotated theta scaled sc shifted pos;
>  pickup PenC;
> 
>  thdraw fullcircle scaled 0.5u shifted (0.0u, 0.7u);
>  thdraw (-0.5u, -0.6u) -- (-0.5u, 0.0u);
>  thdraw (-0.5u, 0.0u) .. (-0.35u, 0.55u) .. (0.0u, 0.7u);
>  thdraw (0.0u, 0.7u) .. (0.35u, 0.55u) .. (0.5u, 0.0u);
>  thdraw (0.5u,0.0u) -- (0.5u, -0.6u);
>  thdraw (-0.7u, -0.6u) -- (0.7u, -0.6u);
> 
>enddef;
> 
> 
> 
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[Therion] request for help

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Dear friends, I forward you mail of Therion user from Cuba. I have no any 
experiences with Linux. May you send him your advice, please?

Thnx

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

Začátek přeposílané zprávy:

> Od: vlado6208 mailto:vlado6...@nauta.cu>>
> Datum: 13. května 2019 17:18:56 SELČ
> Komu: Martin Sluka mailto:martinsl...@mac.com>>
> Předmět: Consejo
> 
> I thinking change the operating system from the PC of project.
> I think in Linux but I do not what version.
> I do not know if Ubuntu, Debian or other.
> What do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
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Re: [Therion] Maps of maps at lower level in survey tree

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 
> And use only simple thconfig:
> 
> source Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th 
> 
> export …..
> 

Sorry:

source Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th 
select Fingernailtovortex2@Fingernailviatpvtovortex2 #map@survey

export …..


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Re: [Therion] Maps of maps at lower level in survey tree

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 6. 5. 2019 v 23:48, alastair gott :
> 
> source Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th 
> 
> source
> #!CODE​
> map Fingernailtovortex2​
>   tpv​
>   break​
>   lower [-0 30 m] below​
> endmap​
> #!ENDCODE​
> ​
> endsource
> 

Sorry, I didn't read your first mail to the end.

You use definition of overall map inside of thconfig, what is possible, but not 
used.

Better way should be to define it in Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th in survey 
Fingernailviatpvtovortex2 as third map definition

map Fingernailtovortex2​
  tpv​
  break​
  lower [-0 30 m] below​
endmap​

tvp and lower are maps defined from scraps and map Fingernailtovortex2 is map 
defined from two others maps. 

And use only simple thconfig:

source Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th

export …..

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Re: [Therion] Maps of maps at lower level in survey tree

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 6. 5. 2019 v 23:48, alastair gott :
> 
> map tpv
> TotalperspectivevortM​
> break​
> Vortex2M​
> endmap​
> ​
> map lower​
> TotpersfromfingerM​
> endmap​
> 

TotalperspectivevortM is scrap, isn’t it. But that scrap is part of namespace 
Totalperspectivevort of survey Totalperspectivevort defined in file 
Totalperspectivevort.th

Therion must know the way to all objects to work with. If not, it sends message 
as in your case "Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th [9] -- object does not exist -- 
TotalperspectivevortM​„. It means on 9th line of file 
Fingernailviatpvtovortex2.th is object TotalperspectivevortM but Therion 
doesn’t know the way to it.

You defined the station in equate command correct - 1.2@Totalperspectivevort  
(station_name@name_space)

Use the same way in your map definition

map tpv
TotalperspectivevortM​@Totalperspectivevort
break​
Vortex2M​@Totalperspectivevort
endmap​

Note: I after years started to name maps as x.map and scraps as 
.scrap just to see what is the object listed in definitions.

Martin Sluka

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Re: [Therion] Best approach for colouring elevations

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 1. 5. 2019 v 1:14, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
>>  is getting really close to spaghetti code.

Tarquin,

you may use input index file with map or maps definition to survey in th file, 
something as this

input map_plan_lookup.thc
input map_plan_default.thc

The same with all joins and all equates, …

So the code in one file could be quite simple at the end.

Just another hint

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Re: [Therion] Best approach for colouring elevations

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 30. 4. 2019 v 19:00, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> segment1@cave1 [100 40 40]
>  segmenta@cave2 [100 40 40]
>  segmenti@cave3 [100 40 40]
> 
>  segment2@cave1 [100 70 0]
>  segment4@cave1 [100 70 0]
>  segmentii@cave3 [100 70 0]
> 
>  segment3@cave1 [100 100 0]
>  segmentb@cave2 [100 100 0]
>  segmentiii@cave3

And what is the problem define another maps from segments and colour them?

map 100_40_40
 segment1@cave1
 segmenta@cave2
 segmenti@cave3
endmap

etc

lookup map:mainset
100_40_40 [100 40 40]
…
endlookup

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Re: [Therion] Best approach for colouring elevations

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 30. 4. 2019 v 11:04, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> Or you could avoid selecting any maps or surveys.

Take care, than it that case Therion will export EVERYTHING it is able to find 
to export. What is probably not what you want.

Martin
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Re: [Therion] Making projected elevations

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

SexyTopo should be out with calibration too yet.

Martin

> 30. 4. 2019 v 10:16, Bruce Mutton :
> 
> Thanks Nick for the good feedback.
> 
> And yes, PocketTopo paired with TopParser is still 'the only way to survey' 
> if you are processing with Therion.  At least that is my biased opinion.
> Alas windows devices are on the way out, so I am hopeful that SexyTopo will 
> be imbued with the simplicity, flexibility and speed of use of PocketTopo - 
> it is not there yet, but it is looking promising.
> Topodroid has many nice features that I wish PocketTopo had, but apart from 
> calibrating distos well, it does not have as smooth a workflow or play as 
> nicely with Therion as it could/should. However if you tend to have small 
> caves or short survey trips, then your opinion of Topodroid over TopParser 
> might be comparatively better.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Nick Bairstow
> Sent: Friday, 26 April 2019 21:35
> To: List for Therion users 
> Subject: Re: [Therion] Making projected elevations
> 
> There is another option with regards to producing projected elevations.
> 
> By using PocketTopo and then using Andrew Atkinsons Topparser to create the 
> directories and files needed for your Therion project, as well as the 
> extended elevation files you have the option of producing a projected 
> elevation .th2 along with a projected xvi which shows all your splays and not 
> just the centreline. The splays can sometimes be difficult to interpret as 
> with PocketTopo you have no option to sketch a projected elevation whilst 
> surveying but I find this much easier/quicker than the method Bruce suggested.
> 
> As with a lot of things a bit of forward planning with how you survey your 
> cave (if that is possible) can make a big difference to how difficult this 
> process is.
> 
> Can I say you two (Tarquin and Bruce) make a quite good team. Tarquin you are 
> asking some good questions for a new user and Bruce as always you have 
> answers normal people can understand.
> 
> Nick
> 
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Re: [Therion] How to get the right count for cave lengths

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Try to arange your surveys to a structure with several layers (“name spaces”).

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

21. 4. 2019 v 5:58, Bruce Mutton :

> Tarquin
> Have a look at 
> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/faq#how_do_i_specify_a_main_entrance_and_also_the_other_entrances
> to find out more about specifying what is a cave and what is just another 
> entrance. 
> 
> To see what Therion is interpreting from your input, cave-list and 
> survey-list are a good compliment to the map output statistics. Surface 
> survey is not counted as cave survey, so the statistics are not reported on 
> map outputs. 
> Yes you do need to structure your data to define which trips belong to which 
> caves. I would also have an overall surface survey to contain all of the 
> surface trips. 
> Also, flags surface and flags not surface are required to distinguish cave 
> passage from from surface survey. I prefer to also make sure the surface 
> survey is in its own centreline (or own survey)  if it is more than just once 
> or two legs. 
> 
> In general I find it preferable to keep surface survey for surface (including 
> isolated features like shafts), and create a new trip file for each cave. 
> This helps maintain a clear separation of data for subsequent survey 
> processing and statistics gathering. 
> 
> Bruce
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion 
> Date: 19/04/19 06:33 (GMT+12:00)
> To: therion@speleo.sk
> Cc: Tarquin Wilton-Jones 
> Subject: [Therion] How to get the right count for cave lengths
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have nearly completed the total survey for the system I am mapping. In
> total, there are a series of little caves (actually mines, but I will
> stick with the word "caves" because it is clearer), a blind surface
> shaft, and a couple of significantly long caves. In total, these were
> surveyed over a series of 6 trips. On one of those trips, we surveyed
> the surface, and any short fragments of passage that we encountered that
> way. One of those fragments turned out to be one of the major caves. The
> major cave's survey was subsequently completed on another trip, but its
> first few metres are included in the surface survey.
> 
> I am used to Survex. Each of the surveying trips has its own .th file:
> 
> overall.th ("input"s all the other files)
> surface1/surface1.th (contains the entrances to several fragments, and
> the first 2 legs of cave 1)
> surface2/surface2.th (contains the blind shaft's plumbed depth and some
> other entrances)
> cave1/cave1.th (does not contain any entrances, but is a long cave,
> connected to the "cave 1 legs" in surface1.th
> cave2/cave2.th (contains the first part of cave2, and its entrance)
> cave3/cave3.th (contains cave3, with two entrances)
> cave2ext/cave2ext.th (contains the second part of cave2)
> 
> Cave1 is connected to cave2.
> 
> Each entrance is marked using "station 2 Cave1 entrance" in the
> centreline section of the file where it is defined. Survex only displays
> aggregate statistics. Therion tries to identify "caves", which is a
> concept I am not used to.
> 
> I had hoped that Therion would be smart enough to see that caves are
> connected to each other, and work out the connected lengths. But it
> seems that it only works out the length of the files within the same
> survey. Cave1 doesn't get any length. Cave2 gets only the length from
> cave2.th - the length of the cave2ext and cave1 are not included.
> 
> How do I make Therion realise what caves are connected? Do I need to put
> them into a structure like this?
> survey overall
> survey cave1_2 -entrance 2@cave2 -name "Caves 1 and 2"
> input cave1.th
> input cave2.th
> input cave2ext.th
> endsurvey
> endsurvey
> 
> And if so ... how do I tell it that *part* of the cave lies within the
> surface survey file? Do I need to split the surface survey up into
> parts, one of which is the entrance to cave1?
> 
> Separately, when using "statistics topo-length on", it ignores the
> surface survey legs, which is quite unfair for the person who surveyed 1
> km of surface to link all of the entrances - they get no credit at all.
> Can it be asked to include surface legs in the topo-length calculations
> for survey credits?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Joining maps with the join command

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

The angle between two identical points. 

Odesláno z iPhonu

15. 4. 2019 v 19:35, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

> Sorry for dragging a thread in the wrong direction, but ...
> 
>> That would indeed be helpful.
> 
> 
> If you're looking for a nice example ... this is what happens when you
> create a slope with two straight points, then accidentally add a third
> point on the same position as the first one:
> 
> "
> ! angle(0,0) is taken as zero.
>  ...EXPR0)])-angle(thdir((path),(EXPR0
> 
> mod360;alw_perpendicular:=...
> 
> l_slope->...wn.lengths[i]:lengths[i]:=-1;fi;endfor
> 
> ;ni:=0;pi:=0;for.i=0upto.l...
> l.9329 ...(1,51.7368,24.3004),(2,51.7368,24.3004))
>  ;
> The `angle' between two identical points is undefined.
> I'm zeroing this one. Proceed, with fingers crossed.
> 
> ...
> 
> error -- metapost exit code -- 2
> "
> 
> That one is really not very human readable (though I can at least see it
> was a "slope" at fault).
> 
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Joining maps with the join command

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

> 14. 4. 2019 v 21:15, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :
> 
> I do wish these error messages were a little more informative, pointing
> out where you made a mistake, but I am so glad it was something so
> simple. Does it actually not know what the problem is? Rather than
> saying "you put it in the wrong place" it says "the map item is not
> valid", which makes me assume a syntax error rather than a command
> hierarchy error.
> 
> (My favourite error is the one where I forget to click on some survey
> stations when defining a scrap, and it tells me "this map is too large,
> and you need to pick a smaller scale". Or the one where I click on a
> station that was already defined in another scrap, and it fails to put
> the right -name in the options - or it just picks the "next" station
> number which was not the right one. Same error message. Or some random
> code dumps about it failing to find the largest coordinate when closing
> lines. These messages are ... "fun".)

It looks there should be new section on wiki: Interpretation of error messages, 
I think.

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Re: [Therion] Joining maps with the join command

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Tarquin, may you share your data?

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

14. 4. 2019 v 9:32, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

> Hi all,
> 
> Thanks for that impressive load of answers,
> 
>> First of all you should input cave1.th and cave2.th to your survey caveaall! 
>> Therion must know the way to data. 
> 
> 
> Ah yes, in my example I was simplifying to keep only the most important
> lines visible and keep the question simple. That is one thing I should
> have kept in :)
> 
> My real data does of course have the imports.
> 
>>   join GreenlinkUSumpsPlan_s2@Greenlink GreenlinkFPlan_s1@MiddleEarth 
>> -smooth on
> 
> 
> OK ... so that syntax does in fact exist. I had not expected it to be
> valid (double @ symbol). I see Henry's example is using that same approach.
> 
>>join jpwall04@SwissM:end GUSwall02@Greenlink:end
> 
> 
> I thought this is what I had used, but it failed. So I assume I have
> done something else wrong somewhere. Sadly the only error message I see
> is "invalid map item", which made me assume I was using the wrong
> approach. It's not a particularly helpful error message, since it
> doesn't tell me either the name it doesn't like, or the property that it
> doesn't like. Certainly don't want to complain about such an incredible
> piece of software, but imagine how nice it would be to see this:
> "invalid map item: jpwall04@SwissM:*end*" ("end" is in bold/red)
> 
> With such highlighting, I would quickly be able to see that the initial
> scrap reference is good, and the line reference is good, but the
> linepoint is wrong. Oh well, this is probably not the best place for a
> feature request.
> 
>> Although looking at it now, with the benefit of 10 more years of
>> experience, I wonder if I could have used a simpler scrap to scrap join,
>> with the -count 3 option.  [Refer to the description of join on page
>> 40-41 of The Therion Book].
> 
> 
> Yes, I had wondered how to join mine in a place where there are some
> oxbowing avens (the caves join vertically through a series of holes,
> only the main one of which is surveyed with true legs), without using
> walls. It seems -count is indeed my answer! Very nice, thanks.
> 
> So now back to wondering what it doesn't like about my (apparently
> valid) join.
> 
> Cheers all!
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Joining maps with the join command

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

There could be 
equate 1@cave1 1@cave2 
too. Each survey is its unique namespace. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

14. 4. 2019 v 8:21, Henry.Bennett--- via Therion :

> In your allcaves.th
> 
>centreline
>equate 2@first 1@second
>endcentreline
> 
> Henry
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Tarquin Wilton-Jones 
> via Therion
> Sent: 13 April 2019 18:32
> To: therion@speleo.sk
> Cc: Tarquin Wilton-Jones
> Subject: [Therion] Joining maps with the join command
> 
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am currently learning how to use Therion to draw up a detailed survey.
> 
> My survey is split into several "caves", each of which has its own .th and 
> .th2 file. In the .th file for each cave is a separate "map", so that the 
> cave can be rendered separately.
> 
> cave1.th:
> survey cave1
> input "cave1 plan.th2"
> input "cave1 ee.th2"
> map cave1MP
>  scrap1
>  scrap2
> endmap
> centreline
>  ...
> endcentreline
> endsurvey
> 
> cave2.th:
> survey cave2
> input "cave2 plan.th2"
> input "cave2 ee.th2"
> map cave2MP
>  scrapa
>  scrapb
> endmap
> centreline
>  ...
> endcentreline
> endsurvey
> 
> Then I have an overall file which combines the maps called allcaves.th:
> survey allcaves
> map allcavesMP
>  cave1MP@cave1
>  cave2MP@cave2
>  join 
> endmap
> centreline
>  ...
> endcentreline
> endsurvey
> 
> Imagine the two caves join in scrap1 (id "foo":0) and scrapb (id "bar":end), 
> and I want to use a join command to make the scraps join neatly (I have 
> already positioned the passage ends very close to each other). Could you 
> please tell me the syntax needed to make the join command reference the 
> correct points of the correct lines inside the correct scraps inside the 
> correct maps?
> 
> Every example of the "join" command I could find assumes you were trying to 
> join scraps inside the same map, and did not show how to reference items in a 
> sub-map. As a result, I have not been able to work out how to construct a 
> valid join command for this situation.
> 
> Many thanks for any information you can provide.
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Joining maps with the join command

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

First of all you should input cave1.th and cave2.th to your survey caveaall! 
Therion must know the way to data. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

13. 4. 2019 v 20:24, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion :

> Hi Benedikt,
> 
> Many thanks for that speedy reply.
> 
>> you can join scraps but not maps. Scraps are not tied to maps in any way, 
>> maps are just „collections“ of scraps. Scraps however are part of a survey.
>> So what you want is achieved by adding join commands on scraps of subsurveys 
>> in your overall index th file allcaves. You can reference those scraps like 
>> this: „join scrap1@cave1 scrapb@cave2“
> 
> 
> That would explain why I couldn't find the syntax...
> 
> So in allcaves.th, using your line, how would I combine that with the
> line id and linepoint index, so that it knows exactly which line point
> to join to which other linepoint?
> 
> In my original question, these were foo:0 and bar:end
> 
> I found examples like this:
> join line1@branch1:0   line2:end
> but this doesn't then show how to combine that with your join command.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Tarquin
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Re: [Therion] Point altitude/deph, Help !

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

If you use editor with multi-file search ability, it is only one operation over 
all data set.

Martin S.

> 14. 3. 2019 v 17:38, Xavier Robert via Therion :
> 
> If the main entrance changes, we need to manually update ALL the points that 
> print the depth. But that should not be be everyday, and not a big issue to 
> do that.
> 

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Re: [Therion] units tape fractional inches

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

I have not access to that DistoX. I received only data from sketchbook. They 
didn’t use PocketTopo or Topodroid. 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

1. 3. 2019 v 13:10, Svein Grundstrøm via Therion :

> Hi
> 
> I don't  quite understand the problem.
> 
> The Disto stores and exports data i the same format whatever unit you use 
> when measuring. Switch unit on the Disto and read out the measurements in m 
> when scrolling through them, or export them to PT or any other device like 
> nothing happend.
> 
> Or; what in your question didn't I understand?
> 
> Svein
> 
> -Opprinnelig melding- From: Martin Sluka via Therion
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 7:48 PM
> To: List for Therion users
> Cc: Martin Sluka
> Subject: [Therion] units tape fractional inches
> 
> May you advice how to add to centerline tape measured accidentally with 
> DistoX switched to feet?
> 
> for example 11’ 5 3/16’'
> 
> I may simple convert it, but I want to write centerline as it was measured, 
> if possible.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Martin
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[Therion] units tape fractional inches

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

May you advice how to add to centerline tape measured accidentally with DistoX 
switched to feet?

for example 11’ 5 3/16’'

I may simple convert it, but I want to write centerline as it was measured, if 
possible.

Thanks

Martin
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Re: [Therion] Inconsistent SELECT behaviour for pdf and xvi map output with background sketches..

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

It is. I hope in the future it will be possible. 

Martin Sluka

Odesláno z iPhonu

15. 2. 2019 v 2:19, Duncan Collis via Therion :

> Hi, Martin.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. That leads me to a final question: is it
> possible to select a particular survey and also get morphed sketches
> in the output XVI file? I've tried to do this without success, but
> maybe there's something I am missing?
> 
> I've tried:
> 
> select survey_1@system
> select survey_2@system
> 
> and get an XVI file with centreline for survey_1 and survey_2 and no sketches.
> 
> If I try:
> 
> select map_A@system
> select survey_1@system
> select survey_2@system
> 
> I still only get the centreline. Is this expected behaviour?
> 
> Best regards,
> Duncan.
> 
>> On 14/02/2019, Martin Sluka via Therion  wrote:
>> Xvi is generated from centerlines in surveys. It has nothing together (till
>> now) with scraps.
>> 
>> So there is the problem. If you select only particular survey(s) it shoul
>> generate only xvi fot that survey(s).
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> Odesláno z iPhonu
>> 
>> 14. 2. 2019 v 12:39, Duncan Collis via Therion :
>> 
>>> Hi, Martin.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the quick response, but I'm afraid I'm not sure I
>>> completely follow your meaning.
>>> 
>>> The map I'm trying to export *is* based on scraps. The problem is that
>>> I'm ending up with the centreline of the whole system in the XVI file
>>> rather than being limited to the scraps.
>>> 
>>> If that is the expected behaviour then it's useful to know, as I can
>>> stop wasting time trying to get it to do something else, and can start
>>> thinking more about how to work around it - I already have an idea to
>>> write a script to strip parts of the centreline that I don't want out
>>> of the XVI file.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Duncan.
>>> 
>>>> On 14/02/2019, Martin Sluka via Therion  wrote:
>>>> To ability to export xvi as part of PDF output is long time on to-do
>>>> list.
>>>> 
>>>> The export of morphed sketches is part of exporting maps based on scraps
>>>> or
>>>> partial maps based on scraps, not exporting centerlines as defined in
>>>> maps
>>>> based on surveys.
>>>> 
>>>> Martin
>>>> 
>>>>> 14. 2. 2019 v 7:56, Duncan Collis via Therion :
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, Bruce.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the reply. The wiki pages you linked were one of the most
>>>>> helpful resources when I was trying to get this to work, along with
>>>>> Marco Corvi's "Therion by Examples".
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've tried selecting surveys, but when I do that I get an XVI file
>>>>> containing the centreline of the selected surveys, but no background
>>>>> sketches, even if I also select the map with the sketches in it.
>>>>> Changing the order of the select statements doesn't make any
>>>>> difference. I've also tried adding scrap outlines by drawing walls
>>>>> around the areas of interest in the th2 file in the vain hope that
>>>>> this would have some effect, but it did nothing. I've tried selecting
>>>>> scraps directly instead of maps, with the same result.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think that this has the potential to be a really useful feature, but
>>>>> unfortunately its current behaviour regarding inclusion of centreline
>>>>> makes it all but unusable in large projects.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Duncan.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 14/02/2019, Bruce Mutton via Therion  wrote:
>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>> I think your experience is more or less consistent with that here
>>>>>> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/outputs#map_xvi_therion that I
>>>>>> experimented
>>>>>> with 4-5 years ago.
>>>>>> One observation I made was that exporting a map to xvi actually
>>>>>> produced
>>>>>> something more akin to a model.  In those pages I did not have any
>>>>>> -sketch
>>>>>> specified with the scraps, so I guess all Therion had to work with was
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> centreline (model).
>>>>>>

Re: [Therion] Inconsistent SELECT behaviour for pdf and xvi map output with background sketches..

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Xvi is generated from centerlines in surveys. It has nothing together (till 
now) with scraps. 

So there is the problem. If you select only particular survey(s) it shoul 
generate only xvi fot that survey(s). 

Martin

Odesláno z iPhonu

14. 2. 2019 v 12:39, Duncan Collis via Therion :

> Hi, Martin.
> 
> Thanks for the quick response, but I'm afraid I'm not sure I
> completely follow your meaning.
> 
> The map I'm trying to export *is* based on scraps. The problem is that
> I'm ending up with the centreline of the whole system in the XVI file
> rather than being limited to the scraps.
> 
> If that is the expected behaviour then it's useful to know, as I can
> stop wasting time trying to get it to do something else, and can start
> thinking more about how to work around it - I already have an idea to
> write a script to strip parts of the centreline that I don't want out
> of the XVI file.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Duncan.
> 
>> On 14/02/2019, Martin Sluka via Therion  wrote:
>> To ability to export xvi as part of PDF output is long time on to-do list.
>> 
>> The export of morphed sketches is part of exporting maps based on scraps or
>> partial maps based on scraps, not exporting centerlines as defined in maps
>> based on surveys.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>>> 14. 2. 2019 v 7:56, Duncan Collis via Therion :
>>> 
>>> Hi, Bruce.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the reply. The wiki pages you linked were one of the most
>>> helpful resources when I was trying to get this to work, along with
>>> Marco Corvi's "Therion by Examples".
>>> 
>>> I've tried selecting surveys, but when I do that I get an XVI file
>>> containing the centreline of the selected surveys, but no background
>>> sketches, even if I also select the map with the sketches in it.
>>> Changing the order of the select statements doesn't make any
>>> difference. I've also tried adding scrap outlines by drawing walls
>>> around the areas of interest in the th2 file in the vain hope that
>>> this would have some effect, but it did nothing. I've tried selecting
>>> scraps directly instead of maps, with the same result.
>>> 
>>> I think that this has the potential to be a really useful feature, but
>>> unfortunately its current behaviour regarding inclusion of centreline
>>> makes it all but unusable in large projects.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Duncan.
>>> 
>>>> On 14/02/2019, Bruce Mutton via Therion  wrote:
>>>> Duncan
>>>> I think your experience is more or less consistent with that here
>>>> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/outputs#map_xvi_therion that I
>>>> experimented
>>>> with 4-5 years ago.
>>>> One observation I made was that exporting a map to xvi actually produced
>>>> something more akin to a model.  In those pages I did not have any
>>>> -sketch
>>>> specified with the scraps, so I guess all Therion had to work with was
>>>> the
>>>> centreline (model).
>>>> Although I don't think there is anything about on that wki page, I recall
>>>> that xvi map exports are a bit 'scattergun' in that they do not respect
>>>> the
>>>> limits of the selected map.
>>>> Maybe if a survey is selected rather than a map you may have better xvi
>>>> control?
>>>> Have a look at this table
>>>> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/outputs#map_xvi_therion, it may provide
>>>> some
>>>> insight.  It may no longer be current, and there may have been mistakes
>>>> in
>>>> it from the start.  Any feedback welcome.
>>>> 
>>>> Bruce
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Duncan Collis via
>>>> Therion
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2019 15:10
>>>> To: therion@speleo.sk
>>>> Cc: Duncan Collis 
>>>> Subject: [Therion] Inconsistent SELECT behaviour for pdf and xvi map
>>>> output
>>>> with background sketches..
>>>> 
>>>> In my th2 file I've got scraps with -sketch specified, and stations
>>>> placed
>>>> to enable warping/morphing of these background images.
>>>> 
>>>> In th2 a map is defined (let's call it map_A) which includes the scraps I
>>>> want.
>>>> 
>>>> Then in .thconfig:
>>>> 
>>>> sele

Re: [Therion] Inconsistent SELECT behaviour for pdf and xvi map output with background sketches..

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

To ability to export xvi as part of PDF output is long time on to-do list.

The export of morphed sketches is part of exporting maps based on scraps or 
partial maps based on scraps, not exporting centerlines as defined in maps 
based on surveys.

Martin

> 14. 2. 2019 v 7:56, Duncan Collis via Therion :
> 
> Hi, Bruce.
> 
> Thanks for the reply. The wiki pages you linked were one of the most
> helpful resources when I was trying to get this to work, along with
> Marco Corvi's "Therion by Examples".
> 
> I've tried selecting surveys, but when I do that I get an XVI file
> containing the centreline of the selected surveys, but no background
> sketches, even if I also select the map with the sketches in it.
> Changing the order of the select statements doesn't make any
> difference. I've also tried adding scrap outlines by drawing walls
> around the areas of interest in the th2 file in the vain hope that
> this would have some effect, but it did nothing. I've tried selecting
> scraps directly instead of maps, with the same result.
> 
> I think that this has the potential to be a really useful feature, but
> unfortunately its current behaviour regarding inclusion of centreline
> makes it all but unusable in large projects.
> 
> Best regards,
> Duncan.
> 
> On 14/02/2019, Bruce Mutton via Therion  wrote:
>> Duncan
>> I think your experience is more or less consistent with that here
>> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/outputs#map_xvi_therion that I experimented
>> with 4-5 years ago.
>> One observation I made was that exporting a map to xvi actually produced
>> something more akin to a model.  In those pages I did not have any -sketch
>> specified with the scraps, so I guess all Therion had to work with was the
>> centreline (model).
>> Although I don't think there is anything about on that wki page, I recall
>> that xvi map exports are a bit 'scattergun' in that they do not respect the
>> limits of the selected map.
>> Maybe if a survey is selected rather than a map you may have better xvi
>> control?
>> Have a look at this table
>> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/outputs#map_xvi_therion, it may provide some
>> insight.  It may no longer be current, and there may have been mistakes in
>> it from the start.  Any feedback welcome.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Therion  On Behalf Of Duncan Collis via
>> Therion
>> Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2019 15:10
>> To: therion@speleo.sk
>> Cc: Duncan Collis 
>> Subject: [Therion] Inconsistent SELECT behaviour for pdf and xvi map output
>> with background sketches..
>> 
>> In my th2 file I've got scraps with -sketch specified, and stations placed
>> to enable warping/morphing of these background images.
>> 
>> In th2 a map is defined (let's call it map_A) which includes the scraps I
>> want.
>> 
>> Then in .thconfig:
>> 
>> select map_A
>> 
>> layout morph
>>  scale 1 500
>>  grid bottom
>>  grid-size 100 100 100 m
>>  sketches on
>>  grid off
>> endlayout
>> 
>> # Output plan in Therion pdf format
>> export map \
>>  -projection plan \
>>  -format pdf\
>>  -output map_A.pdf \
>>  -layout morph
>> 
>> # Output plan in Therion xvi format
>> export map \
>>  -projection plan \
>>  -format xvi\
>>  -output map_A.xvi\
>>  -layout morph
>> 
>> PDF output is as expected from the manual. It shows the background images
>> attached to the scraps in the selected map, plus only the parts of the
>> centreline that are used in those scraps. However if I change the export
>> command to use XVI format, I get the background images and the centreline
>> for the whole project, which contains over 20,000 stations. This is very
>> difficult to use as it takes a long time for XTherion to load it, and then
>> the area I'm interested in is tiny compared with the whole drawing area, so
>> it requires quite a bit of zooming and scrolling to get there before I can
>> start working.
>> 
>> Am I right in thinking that the XVI output should contain the same bits of
>> centreline as appear in the PDF output, rather than the whole lot? Am I
>> missing something?
>> 
>> Also: 'grid off' does not seem to affect the XVI output, which is why I've
>> specified a fairly large grid size so that the grid isn't obscuring the
>> sketches. I'd really like to be able to disable the grid in XVI completely.
>> 
>> Is there a way to achieve these two things?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Duncan.
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[Therion] topoDroid - Therion

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/topodroidtherion

m.
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Re: [Therion] Troubles with the 3D generation

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Maybe the most simple way could be in layout: 

symbol-hide group all 
symbol-show line wall

Martin S.

> 20. 1. 2019 v 14:41, Andrey via Therion :
> 
> Thank you very much for catching that!   Now model looks perfect!
> 
> This "invalid scrap outline" warning was ringing some bells but I was too 
> impatient when tidying up the scrap.
> 
> 
> It would be a great enhancement if there will be an option for walls to cut 
> the spaly triangles in case if splays are not stiking through the wall lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Воскресенье, 20 января 2019, 12:59 UTC от Martin Sluka via Therion 
> :
> 
> Only one very-very small dummy wall line there, check attached screen-shot. 
> It will be all OK when you delete it.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 19. 1. 2019 v 20:30, Andrey via Therion > >:
>> 
>> Hello Therion users,
>> 
>> I am trying to make a 3D model for a small horizontal cave where only plan 
>> had been drawn up.
>> 
>> In case if I use splays for model generation it cuts through the wall 
>> surfaces and looks not very nice.
>> If I use just walls with option "export model -wall-source maps"  and bunch 
>> of "point dimensions"  model comes out without floor and cealing.
>> 
>> Maybe someone can point out what am I doing wrong?
>> 
>> Project files attached.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Andrey
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Вторник, 21 марта 2017, 5:53 UTC от Bruce Mutton via Therion 
>> > >:
>> 
>> I had put my understandings (about ‘point dimensions’ and ‘point 
>> passage-height’) in the wiki
>> 
>> https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist#points 
>> <https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist#points>
>> under the heading Passage Size, Fills and Speleothems
>> 
>> and discussed an anomaly.  Any corrections or comments welcome.
>> 
>>  
>> Bruce
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk 
>> ] On 
>> Behalf Of Martin Sluka via Therion
>> Sent: Tuesday, 21 March 2017 10:23 AM
>> To: List for Therion users > >
>> Cc: Martin Sluka > >
>> Subject: Re: [Therion] Troubles with the 3D generation
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> > 20. 3. 2017 v 20:48, Benedikt Hallinger via Therion >:
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > What is the different between "point dimensions" and "point 
>> > passage-height"?
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > If i understand the therion book correctly:
>> 
>> > - dimensions is ONLY for the 3D-tube generation and invisible in rendered 
>> > maps
>> 
>> > - otherwise behaves as if "point passage-height [+ -] would have 
>> > been given.
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>>  
>> ..
>> 
>>  
>> A bit difficult to understand. I understand passage-height [+8 -3] From 
>> water level to ceiling 8 m, depth of water 3 m.
>> 
>> But what it means:  "- (the depth of the floor" or "[+ 
>> -] (the distance to ceiling and distance to floor)"? Has floor any 
>> depth? Or it means the situation if the point „height“ is on edge of step or 
>> pit?
>> 
>> m.s.
>> 
>>  
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>> 
>> -- 
>> Kind regards,
>> Andrey
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> 
> -- 
> Kind regards,
> Andrey
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