Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
Thank you for all the insightful comments, and apologies to having derailed the thread in the first place. Just on the topic of UnaMesa, I should make it clear that I talk to Greg on a regular basis, and we've discussed the plans I've mentioned below. I think of UnaMesa's primary role in relation to TiddlyWiki users being it's custody of the intellectual property of TiddlyWiki. As users, it's your lifetime guarantee that your usage of TiddlyWiki won't be disrupted by anything that I or another principal might do. UnaMesa has a broad interest in using TiddlyWiki and related technologies to improve the quality of life of people around the world. For example, see the work they've been doing recently on health education: http://healthmaterials.org/ Make sure you scroll down and click through to the individual guides. The plugin development was by Eric, and the design by Jon Lister and Josh Bradley, who also work with Dickon on the AMBIT site. I'm a keen supporter of UnaMesa, and have sat on the board at various points in its life. What I'm planning now is different and complementary, and hopefully mutually supportive. Federatial will seek to become a for profit cooperative for the core contributors of TiddlyWiki. I hope that in due course, Federatial would make grants to financially support the work of UnaMesa. Meanwhile, UnaMesa will continue its work, and continue to seek sponsorship from organisations like BT, its main current sponsor. It's possibly not a helpful analogy, but it's as if Netscape was functioning alongside Mozilla, acting as a symbiotic whole. Anyhow, as I've said, the prerequisite for any of this to happen is to build a beautiful, usable tool that people will love to use. The next thing is spreading the word, getting people to talk about it, and communicating clearly why it's better than other alternatives. That's really where the mugs and t-shirts come in; symbolic tokens of membership that act as a signal to others. Best wishes Jeremy -- http://jermolene.com http://tiddlywiki.com On 24 Feb 2012, at 20:21, Alex Hough wrote: > I e-mailed one of the board today! > > ALex > > On 24 February 2012 20:05, Eric Weir wrote: >> >> On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:39 AM, Alex Hough wrote: >> >>> It might be an idea to get a community proposal together for the >>> Unamesa board [1] and present it to them >>> Coming from the community, such a proposal might be seen (legitimately >>> I think) as an organizational achievement. >> >> Haven't taken time to read your entire post, yet, but wanted to comment that >> a primary responsibility, of the board of most nonprofits is to ask for >> donations. And one of the primary qualifications that nonprofits look for in >> board members is ability to support the organization financially, likely >> knowledge of other individuals who could do so, and experience that suggests >> they would be comfortable approaching other such individuals whom they do >> not know but who are believed to be good targets to ask for donations. >> >> -- >> Eric Weir >> Decatur, GA >> eew...@bellsouth.net >> >> "What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?" >> >> - Mary Oliver >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
I e-mailed one of the board today! ALex On 24 February 2012 20:05, Eric Weir wrote: > > On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:39 AM, Alex Hough wrote: > >> It might be an idea to get a community proposal together for the >> Unamesa board [1] and present it to them >> Coming from the community, such a proposal might be seen (legitimately >> I think) as an organizational achievement. > > Haven't taken time to read your entire post, yet, but wanted to comment that > a primary responsibility, of the board of most nonprofits is to ask for > donations. And one of the primary qualifications that nonprofits look for in > board members is ability to support the organization financially, likely > knowledge of other individuals who could do so, and experience that suggests > they would be comfortable approaching other such individuals whom they do not > know but who are believed to be good targets to ask for donations. > > -- > Eric Weir > Decatur, GA > eew...@bellsouth.net > > "What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?" > > - Mary Oliver > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:39 AM, Alex Hough wrote: > It might be an idea to get a community proposal together for the > Unamesa board [1] and present it to them > Coming from the community, such a proposal might be seen (legitimately > I think) as an organizational achievement. Haven't taken time to read your entire post, yet, but wanted to comment that a primary responsibility, of the board of most nonprofits is to ask for donations. And one of the primary qualifications that nonprofits look for in board members is ability to support the organization financially, likely knowledge of other individuals who could do so, and experience that suggests they would be comfortable approaching other such individuals whom they do not know but who are believed to be good targets to ask for donations. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA eew...@bellsouth.net "What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?" - Mary Oliver -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
Eric, You got me going ... a short reply kept growing and growing TW Board ? = It might be an idea to get a community proposal together for the Unamesa board [1] and present it to them Coming from the community, such a proposal might be seen (legitimately I think) as an organizational achievement. With the backing of the board (or reference to one), it might be easier for TW evangelists to sell the big idea and get funding. Coop Year It is the year of the cooperative [2]. It might not have been the same "cooperative" Jeremy means when he wrote "a cooperative commercial business, with the core contributors sharing income" but might be worth thinking about. * There could be a market within the cooperative movement, a business environment which may be more amenable to all things Tiddly, than traditional style capitalism for example. As a unique "end user" open source project, I could see TW being championed by small startup companies who might have in the past been drawn toward Drupal. In Manchester the poster child for all thing coops is Unicorn [3] , its all *very* fashionable, while the big daddy super-sucess story is from Spain -- Mondragon [4] Inspiration for Something New ??? == There are people who think that a new organizational form is required for new times. The wiki in general seems to symbolise a new way of doing thinks -- think Wikipedia, Wikileeks -- and TiddlyWiki could be framed as "the" personal wiki ... a lifestyle choice -- like a artisan sourdough loaf -- as well as slick piece of cool-as-you-like technology. Recently I started to think in terms of contexts from which new ideas could emerge. I was interested to read Paul Mason's book [5] , which talks about a generation of unemployed graduates organizing themselves. Richard Sennett's essay [6] points to Micheal be Montainge who in 1570; "retired to his estate [...] to a tower within the south-east corner of the chateau, where he set up a room in which to think and to write [...] he began both to experiment with writing in a dialogical way – that is, emphasising dialogue – and to think through its application to everyday co-operation." The review of Sennett's book [7], "The view popularised by Malcolm Gladwell is that to get really good at something requiring skill takes at least 10 000 hours of practice, whether it's football or rocket science. Sennett thinks co-operation is no different, which means that only a few people are ever going to be really good at it. " The good news is that there are a fair few people in the TW community who have racked up getting on for 10 000 hours of practice Alex [1] http://unamesa.org/board.html [2] http://www.co-operative.coop/2012 [3] http://www.unicorn-grocery.co.uk/ [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation [5] Mason, P., 2012. Why It’s Kicking Off Everywhere: The New Global Revolutions, Verso Books. Available at: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1844678512 [Accessed January 7, 2012]. [6] http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/feb/10/richard-sennett-montaigne-cooperation [7] http://www.guardianbookshop.co.uk/BerteShopWeb/viewProduct.do?ISBN=9780713998740 [8] http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/feb/03/together-politics-cooperation-richard-sennett-review#start-of-comments = End = On 24 February 2012 14:51, Alex Hough wrote: >>This what's missing. The word about TW. The word about how to use TW. > > I think you are right and that a book should "tell the story" as well > as be a user manual. > > The marketing cliche goes :"sell the sizzle not the sausage" > > > ALex > > > > On 24 February 2012 14:45, Eric Weir wrote: >> >> On Feb 24, 2012, at 4:07 AM, Jeremy Ruston wrote: >> >>> it all starts with building an utterly awesome product... >> >> Absolutely! And you've already got that. As I said, the limited knowledge >> and use is unfortunate. Without being too melodramatic, even tragic. >> >>> and then spreading the word. >> >> This what's missing. The word about TW. The word about how to use TW. >> >> Regards, >> -- >> Eric Weir >> >> "With an ounce of willingness, everything can change." >> >> - Kim >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=e
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Feb 24, 2012, at 9:51 AM, Alex Hough wrote: > The marketing cliche goes :"sell the sizzle not the sausage" Well, the marketing folks are pretty good at what they do, and I don't know how you could get the sizzle without the sausage, and the sizzle is probably part of what I want, but it's the *sausage* that I want. Too often the marketing folks are able to sell us "sizzle" without the "sausage." I try to give them as few opportunities as possible--which in the age of internet advertising is admittedly difficult--but I don't own a television. Haven't for probably 40 years. [Yes, there's good stuff, but there's also a lot of "sizzle."] -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA eew...@bellsouth.net "What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?" - Mary Oliver -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
>This what's missing. The word about TW. The word about how to use TW. I think you are right and that a book should "tell the story" as well as be a user manual. The marketing cliche goes :"sell the sizzle not the sausage" ALex On 24 February 2012 14:45, Eric Weir wrote: > > On Feb 24, 2012, at 4:07 AM, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > >> it all starts with building an utterly awesome product... > > Absolutely! And you've already got that. As I said, the limited knowledge and > use is unfortunate. Without being too melodramatic, even tragic. > >> and then spreading the word. > > This what's missing. The word about TW. The word about how to use TW. > > Regards, > -- > Eric Weir > > "With an ounce of willingness, everything can change." > > - Kim > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Feb 24, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Eric Weir wrote: > [c] Evident, no doubt, but shoulda been [b]. -- Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net "The invincible shield of caring Is a weapon sent from the sky against being dead." - Tao Te Ching 67 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
Isn't UnaMesa a non-profit anyway? "The UnaMesa Association is a non-profit, world-wide association of individuals from industry, academia, and NGOs that help caregivers and educators create better experiences for their clients through free software tools and web services. " Perhaps one way to go is make closer links with UnaMesa and for TW fans to promote TW in this context. Alex [1] http://unamesa.org/ On 24 February 2012 14:42, Eric Weir wrote: > > On Feb 24, 2012, at 4:07 AM, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > >> - Selling TiddlyWiki commemorative mugs and T-shirts, with special >> limited editions, mugs signed by Eric and so on > > This will be a *very* hard way to raise funds. Other ways suggested are more > realistic. I would be willing to be a paying associate. Which I take it would > not be required, but might come with some minor privileges that nonpaying > users might want to have. > > One option not mentioned, that, at least here in the US is by far and away > the most lucrative way for nonprofits to support themselves, is to ask for > gifts--not investments--from people of means who [a] believe in what you're > doing or could be persuaded that what you're doing is worthwhile, and, most > important, [c] who could become an active part of your community in some way. > [Three quarters of all nongovernmental funding for nonprofits in the US comes > through what is known as individual donor fundraising--asking for gifts, > especially from people who meet the above conditions. Though it's the first > thing people think of, foundation grants pale in comparison.] > > -- > Eric Weir > Decatur, GA USA > eew...@bellsouth.net > > "Hatred destroys. Love heals." > > - Eknath Easwaran > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Feb 24, 2012, at 4:07 AM, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > it all starts with building an utterly awesome product... Absolutely! And you've already got that. As I said, the limited knowledge and use is unfortunate. Without being too melodramatic, even tragic. > and then spreading the word. This what's missing. The word about TW. The word about how to use TW. Regards, -- Eric Weir "With an ounce of willingness, everything can change." - Kim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Feb 24, 2012, at 4:07 AM, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > - Selling TiddlyWiki commemorative mugs and T-shirts, with special > limited editions, mugs signed by Eric and so on This will be a *very* hard way to raise funds. Other ways suggested are more realistic. I would be willing to be a paying associate. Which I take it would not be required, but might come with some minor privileges that nonpaying users might want to have. One option not mentioned, that, at least here in the US is by far and away the most lucrative way for nonprofits to support themselves, is to ask for gifts--not investments--from people of means who [a] believe in what you're doing or could be persuaded that what you're doing is worthwhile, and, most important, [c] who could become an active part of your community in some way. [Three quarters of all nongovernmental funding for nonprofits in the US comes through what is known as individual donor fundraising--asking for gifts, especially from people who meet the above conditions. Though it's the first thing people think of, foundation grants pale in comparison.] -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net "Hatred destroys. Love heals." - Eknath Easwaran -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:08 AM, HansBKK wrote: > I see the "canned templates" like the GTD flavors, especially Monkey for > taggly tagging, TWtree, etc as the user-ready apps. Yes, these were the two that did it for me, MPTW for getting me into taggly tagging, and TW-Treeview custom tweaked for me by Morris Gray that added treeview to the existing ways of accessing tiddlers--sidebar, search, and tags--an gave me a TW that looked and felt right. I have added or changed very little since I settled on this TW. -- Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net "The invincible shield of caring Is a weapon sent from the sky against being dead." - Tao Te Ching 67 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
To pick up Eric's points first, I should restate a few of the goals/plans for TW5: - To make it much, much easier to use, by taking much more trouble over the journey users need to take as they download and start to use it - To make it simpler to find and update plugins by having a central plugin library - To run TW5 as a cooperative commercial business, with the core contributors sharing income The other thing I'm trying to do is make a better fist of documentation as I go along. My feeling is that TW suffers primarily from a lack of easy to find, authoritative reference information. In terms of revenue streams for TW5, I think there's a few worth investigating: - Selling TiddlyWiki commemorative mugs and T-shirts, with special limited editions, mugs signed by Eric and so on - Affiliate fees. The hope is that users will be able to take a very simple journey from tiddlywiki.com to signing up with a hosting provider like Joyent or Amazon to have their TW5 running in the cloud. >From an end user perspective, the goal is for the process to be as simple as signing up for Facebook, albeit with a payment stage. So, the end user gets a solid service that they paid for, Amazon/Joyent get a new customer, and TW5 gets a kickback. - Sponsorship. If we can make TW5 100 times more popular than the current product, then I'm hoping all kinds of good things would happen, including the possibility of getting a couple of commercial sponsors to support the cooperative in exchange for tasteful badges on tiddlywiki.com itself. - The idea of publishing a book, which I think would be marvellous - Finally, consultancy work around TiddlyWiki. For instance, back in 2006 I did a contract for SocialText to help them integrate TiddlyWiki as SocialText Unplugged (and met Chris Dent in the process, of course). If we build a rich and useful ecosystem then organisations will pay us to get access to it. Anyhow, it all starts with building an utterly awesome product, and then spreading the word. We need to embed the idea that if you love TiddlyWiki, the obligation is to talk about; more even than donating and buying T-shirts. If everyone who loved it got their bosses/wives/children/friends to use it, we might see a kind of conscious viral spread. TiddlyWiki is an unusual open source project in that it's audience is end users rather than software developers. Node.js is a wonderful thing, but it's only useful to software developers. Our potential audience is surely much, much bigger than Node's. Best wishes Jeremy On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Alex Hough wrote: >> IMO the project does sorely need a "docs curator" who is at least an >> experienced user, ideally with explicit support from the dev-gurus > > Hans > > There has been some discussion about this topic. Eric is writing a > book and I have made a start on one. There are several others are > interested too. > I think that the general feeling is that some kind of funding model is > required. > > I was looking at the one of the files on Github and reading Jeremy's > TW5 documentation. I think that, while being hard to understand, some > pointers towards these might help. > > Exploring the idea of "docs curator" is a good idea IMHO. Perhaps we > could take time out from Tiddling our TW and get our heads > together. > > - my latest thought is this; Do some research which incorporates the > history of TW, get funding from a research body. TW might make an > interesting study for an academic interested in open innovation > > > Alex > > > > > On 24 February 2012 05:08, HansBKK wrote: >> On Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:50:15 PM UTC+7, Eric Weir wrote: >>> >>> That makes me think that few people are learning about TW or that those >>> that do abandon it pretty quickly because the skill prerequisites for using >>> it are so high. Given its power and versatility that is unfortunate. >>> >>> I hung around here a year and a half before I began to get an idea how I >>> might use TW, and then I was fortunate to have a skilled developer >>> practically do a custom TW for me. Otherwise, I would have moved on, too. >>> >> I'd say it took me about 4-6 months, but I'm pretty obsessive-compulsive and >> probably devoted 500 hours to "playing around" over that time. This of >> course includes getting to know many plugins and also a bit about theming, >> which was also combined with getting up to speed on improving my CSS at the >> time. >> >> I see the "canned templates" like the GTD flavors, especially Monkey for >> taggly tagging, TWtree, etc as the user-ready apps, but it's true that any >> serious customization requires a decent commitment to learning to use TW as >> a toolkit. >> >> IMO the project does sorely need a "docs curator" who is at least an >> experienced user, ideally with explicit support from the dev-gurus, to to >> consolidate and add to all the relevant docs on core TW + the important >> plugins in one place, or perhaps two if there is a distinction between >>
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
> IMO the project does sorely need a "docs curator" who is at least an > experienced user, ideally with explicit support from the dev-gurus Hans There has been some discussion about this topic. Eric is writing a book and I have made a start on one. There are several others are interested too. I think that the general feeling is that some kind of funding model is required. I was looking at the one of the files on Github and reading Jeremy's TW5 documentation. I think that, while being hard to understand, some pointers towards these might help. Exploring the idea of "docs curator" is a good idea IMHO. Perhaps we could take time out from Tiddling our TW and get our heads together. - my latest thought is this; Do some research which incorporates the history of TW, get funding from a research body. TW might make an interesting study for an academic interested in open innovation Alex On 24 February 2012 05:08, HansBKK wrote: > On Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:50:15 PM UTC+7, Eric Weir wrote: >> >> That makes me think that few people are learning about TW or that those >> that do abandon it pretty quickly because the skill prerequisites for using >> it are so high. Given its power and versatility that is unfortunate. >> >> I hung around here a year and a half before I began to get an idea how I >> might use TW, and then I was fortunate to have a skilled developer >> practically do a custom TW for me. Otherwise, I would have moved on, too. >> > I'd say it took me about 4-6 months, but I'm pretty obsessive-compulsive and > probably devoted 500 hours to "playing around" over that time. This of > course includes getting to know many plugins and also a bit about theming, > which was also combined with getting up to speed on improving my CSS at the > time. > > I see the "canned templates" like the GTD flavors, especially Monkey for > taggly tagging, TWtree, etc as the user-ready apps, but it's true that any > serious customization requires a decent commitment to learning to use TW as > a toolkit. > > IMO the project does sorely need a "docs curator" who is at least an > experienced user, ideally with explicit support from the dev-gurus, to to > consolidate and add to all the relevant docs on core TW + the important > plugins in one place, or perhaps two if there is a distinction between > "official" docs and "community" wiki. > > Each of the server-side solutions also needs their own. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/-/f-AOJsUGNXIJ. > > To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:50:15 PM UTC+7, Eric Weir wrote: > > That makes me think that few people are learning about TW or that those > that do abandon it pretty quickly because the skill prerequisites for using > it are so high. Given its power and versatility that is unfortunate. > > I hung around here a year and a half before I began to get an idea how I > might use TW, and then I was fortunate to have a skilled developer > practically do a custom TW for me. Otherwise, I would have moved on, too. > > I'd say it took me about 4-6 months, but I'm pretty obsessive-compulsive and probably devoted 500 hours to "playing around" over that time. This of course includes getting to know many plugins and also a bit about theming, which was also combined with getting up to speed on improving my CSS at the time. I see the "canned templates" like the GTD flavors, especially Monkey for taggly tagging, TWtree, etc as the user-ready apps, but it's true that any serious customization requires a decent commitment to learning to use TW as a toolkit. IMO the project does sorely need a "docs curator" who is at least an experienced user, ideally with explicit support from the dev-gurus, to to consolidate and add to all the relevant docs on core TW + the important plugins in one place, or perhaps two if there is a distinction between "official" docs and "community" wiki. Each of the server-side solutions also needs their own. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/-/f-AOJsUGNXIJ. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:40 AM, HansBKK wrote: > On Thursday, February 23, 2012 5:15:12 PM UTC+7, PMario wrote: > I'm not sure, what this post should tell me. > > What I took away was "someone should write a (series of) post(s) describing > how to accomplish X, Y and Z, both in Tiddlywiki and by using other available > tools that may have advantages or disadvantages compared to TW. That's pretty much how I saw it--except that this is only one example of the kinds of thing developers of this project--which like TW is open-source and at least as complex and versatile--have done to facilitate new and not-so-new users in becoming conversant with it, learning to use it, solving problems in using it. There is a manual, a web-site, a wiki, there are user groups, there is a listserv. TW has a listserv. The frequenters are extremely creative and very helpful. But as near as I can tell anymore they are mostly developers. That makes me think that few people are learning about TW or that those that do abandon it pretty quickly because the skill prerequisites for using it are so high. Given its power and versatility that is unfortunate. I hung around here a year and a half before I began to get an idea how I might use TW, and then I was fortunate to have a skilled developer practically do a custom TW for me. Otherwise, I would have moved on, too. Regards, -- Eric Weir "With an ounce of willingness, everything can change." - Kim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
On Thursday, February 23, 2012 5:15:12 PM UTC+7, PMario wrote: > > I'm not sure, what this post should tell me. What I took away was "someone should write a (series of) post(s) describing how to accomplish X, Y and Z, both in Tiddlywiki and by using other available tools that may have advantages or disadvantages compared to TW. The few times I've come across a "links to other software like this" on the home page of a FOSS project I'm checking out, I've been very impressed both by the pride/self-confidence and public-spiritedness such a list expresses. I think TW presents a bit of a challenge, as it can be used for so many different things, more of a toolkit than a finished app. For my projects, I could productively compare it to other wiki tools, especially Zim and DokuWiki, Evernote (I've never left v2.2 since I don't believe in clouds under others' control), Tomboy, Simplenote/ResophNotes, KeyNote, KeepNote, CintaNotes and less so, Delicious, specifically wrt tagging/tag bundles. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/-/1ThT4Od0kv0J. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Fwd: Recommended third-party tools
Hi Eric, On Feb 23, 12:30 am, Eric Weir wrote: > Thought this statement from another open-source project might be of interest > to TiddlyWiki folks: I'm not sure, what this post should tell me. So I'll try a speculated guess: You are going to collect info, because you want to write a TW single page, step-by-step howto like Russel did for LyX [1] ? Searching the web, this seems to be the root topic: "Why do YOU love LyX?" [2] have fun! mario PS: I did a "print preview" [1], it wants to print 5 A4 pages ;) [1] http://russellb.livejournal.com/1335718.html [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg91237.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
