Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: HP10811 Oscillator Thermal Fuse

[Mike Feher]

Respectfully I disagree. I have totally shorted out numerous oscillator’s fuses 
with no problems. The design of those thermal fuses makes them vulnerable to 
opening just due to years of use without problem, in any of the electronics. My 
shorted out oscillators still work. Ideally, if handy, it is easy enough to 
replace them if one is available. They just plug in. If there is a thermal 
runaway, that caused the opening, to me that implies that there are other 
issues. Regards – Mike  

 

Mike B. Feher, N4FS

89 Arnold Blvd.

Howell, NJ, 07731

848-245-9115

 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Donald E. Pauly
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 9:49 PM
To: time-nuts; Donald E. Pauly
Subject: [time-nuts] Fwd: HP10811 Oscillator Thermal Fuse

 

  
https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2017-May/date.html

 

I disagree about permanently jumpering the thermal fuse.  The oscillator is 
rated down to -55° C and the oven can maintain 82° C at that temperature.  This 
is a 137° C rise.  It is likely capable of more heat than that.  At 25° C, it 
would therefore be able to reach at least 25+137=162° C.  This is near solder 
melting temperature and would quickly cook the components.  It is rated to work 
at 71° which would give a temperature of 208° C and do serious damage.  That 
thermal fuse is very important.  There are a dozen failures which could result 
in a thermal runaway.

 

This web page discusses the fact that a thermal fuse should be 30° C above 
normal operating temperature to prevent nuisance blows.

 

 http://www.simonsdialogs.com/2016/09/a-thermal-fuse-and-hp-10811-60111-repair/

HP originally used a 26° C margin and later changed it to a 33° margin.  This 
explains the frequent failures.  This poster used the wrong type of fuse but 
the correct type is commercially available.

 

πθ°μΩω±√·Γλ

WB0KVV

 

-- Forwarded message --

From: Bob kb8tq <  kb...@n1k.org>

Date: Mon, May 8, 2017 at 6:07 PM

Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP10811 Oscillator Thermal Fuse

To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < 
 time-nuts@febo.com>

Cc: "Donald E. Pauly" <  trojancow...@gmail.com>

 

Hi

 

You will get a lot of diversity of opinion on the topic of the thermal fuse on 
the 10811. My feeling is that they are a nuisance and contribute very little to 
the design. I’d just short it out and move on. In the era of failure prone 
heater transistors or faulty thermistors, the fuse may have made sense. That 
era ended before the

10811 went into production.

 

Bob

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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Gregory Beat]

Internet Fishing expedition, produced some cross-references :-)

Keysight 34401 DVM --> Service Guide, page 133.
http://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/34401-90013-mla2.pdf

34401-66512 – Display Assembly (A2) 
Vacuum Florescent Display (VFD) was OEM CP3033A (Noritake part).

Noritake VFD Basics
https://www.noritake-elec.com/technology/general-technical-information/vfd-operation

Some EEVBlog readers attempt VFD rejuvenation
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/vacuum-fluorescent-display-rejuvenation/

greg

Sent from iPad Air

> On May 9, 2017, at 10:46 PM, Gregory Beat  wrote:
> 
> SAMSUNG SSVD INB-12MM52T
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[time-nuts] First batch data of China pulstar observation satellite

[Li Ang]

Hi, 
I have just noticed that the data was found at 
http://www.beidou.gov.cn/xpnavdata.rar 
The satellite was built by BD7ILZ's company and launched on 2016.11.10. The 
data is recieved from the Crab nebula.
If you are interested on the data I am happy y to translate the readme.txt 
and related information.


Regards


Li Ang / BI7LNQ
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[time-nuts] Fwd: HP10811 Oscillator Thermal Fuse

[Donald E. Pauly]

https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2017-May/date.html

I disagree about permanently jumpering the thermal fuse.  The
oscillator is rated down to -55° C and the oven can maintain 82° C at
that temperature.  This is a 137° C rise.  It is likely capable of
more heat than that.  At 25° C, it would therefore be able to reach at
least 25+137=162° C.  This is near solder melting temperature and
would quickly cook the components.  It is rated to work at 71° which
would give a temperature of 208° C and do serious damage.  That
thermal fuse is very important.  There are a dozen failures which
could result in a thermal runaway.

This web page discusses the fact that a thermal fuse should be 30° C
above normal operating temperature to prevent nuisance blows.
http://www.simonsdialogs.com/2016/09/a-thermal-fuse-and-hp-10811-60111-repair/
HP originally used a 26° C margin and later changed it to a 33°
margin.  This explains the frequent failures.  This poster used the
wrong type of fuse but the correct type is commercially available.

πθ°μΩω±√·Γλ
WB0KVV

-- Forwarded message --
From: Bob kb8tq 
Date: Mon, May 8, 2017 at 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP10811 Oscillator Thermal Fuse
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Cc: "Donald E. Pauly" 

Hi

You will get a lot of diversity of opinion on the topic of the thermal
fuse on the 10811. My feeling is that they are a nuisance and
contribute very little to the design. I’d just short it out and move
on. In the era of failure prone heater transistors or faulty
thermistors, the fuse may have made sense. That era ended before the
10811 went into production.

Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[ziggy9+time-nuts]

Actually, I speculated that 3 and 4 were an additional serial port but I have 
not observed any data on those pins and I haven’t tried sending data at them. 
They do not follow J2P3 (rxd). It is J1 pins 7 and 8 that BOTH mirror the data 
on the J2 pin 2 (txd). Whether they (J1 7 and 8) are tied together or are 
separate paths I don’t know. But you can overlay the scope traces and watch 
them all toggle together. They are 3.3v though, so if you go the Arduino route 
make sure you use the proper flavor - we don’t know if any of this IO is 5v 
tolerant.

Paul

> On May 9, 2017, at 6:00 PM, Ben Hall  wrote:
> 
> On 5/6/2017 8:13 PM, ziggy9+time-n...@pumpkinbrook.com wrote:
>> A few notes on the GPSDO module:
>> - the 5 pin header near U19, the LM74 temp sensor:
>> - pin 5 or the third pin in the row closest to U19 is the 12v input 
>> (measured). the other 4 are all ground.
>> - the 15 pin header:
>> - pins 1,2,5,6,9,10,13,14 are all ground
>> - pins 3 and 4 are 3.3v ttl level, I’m guessing another serial port
>> - pins 7 and 8 are 3.3v ttl level, and contain the same data as J2 pin 2
>> - pins 11,12 are 1 pps, 10ms, 5v
> 
> Hi Paul and list,
> 
> When you say "pins 3 and 4 are 3.3v ttl level, and contain the same data as 
> J2 pin 2" does that mean that pins 7 and 8 on on the 15 pin header are the 
> RX/TX pair TTL side of the SIPEX TTL-to-RS232 chip?
> +
> One of the things I was hoping for was to find TTL access to the serial port 
> so I don't have to go Arduino TTL to RS232 off-board and then go back from 
> RS232 with the Sipex chip on the board.
> 
> Have taken a look-see on pins 3 and 4 to see if there is any serial data 
> coming in / going out of there?
> 
> thanks much,
> ben
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Gregory Beat]

Mark -

Keysight MAY have that spare VFD still in stock (German office supposedly had a 
few).
Several HP-34401A DVM owners have used that Chinese source for replacement.
The display model being sold appears to be: SAMSUNG SSVD INB-12MM52T

Good luck !

greg

> I looked closely at the display and can see unused annunciators for 
> frequency, us, period, etc.
> So the display is the same as used in at least one of their frequency 
> counters.  
> The display is a 12 character 14-segment display.   
> There is a possibility that a HP-34401A display might work.   
> Those are available from China for around $50.
> - Mark


Sent from iPad Air
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with ExternalReference?

[Tom Knox]

Hi All;

Thanks for the input. Tom a question, was there any difference between the two 
53230A oscillator when locked to an external reference? I have also experienced 
poor results with my 53230A often showing constant reference errors. Sadly I 
have several each  53230A's Ultra Stab and MCA3027's Med Stab so I cannot 
directly compare oscillator performance. I am trying to reverse engineer the 
Tektronix FCA/MCA counter to determine if there is away to directly feed an 
external reference is a direct reference instead of phase locking the internal 
reference while keeping the rest of the functionality intact, Which appears 
possible on these boxes. It appears U11B send off/on signals from pin 3,4,5 to 
switch between Std3, Oven5, or Rubidium4 internal ref which then provides 10MHz 
signals to U11B pin 204 RB ,205 Std,206 Oven respectively, What sense and 
controls that I have yet to determine, the selection may be in the menu. That 
may allow simple adding a connector and cable to the rear panel. U9A 
 seems to relate PLL and switching. Perhaps the same is possible with the 
53230A. I spoke with a friend Fred Walls today and asked if he though the 
internal reference was much of a factor when Lock to a good external reference 
and he did not thin so.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Thomas Knox


From: time-nuts  on behalf of Tom Van Baak 

Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 9:03 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with 
ExternalReference?

Hi Thomas,

About the 53230A -- like many of us I figured there was no point in buying the 
expensive OCXO versions since I have plenty of good 10 MHz references around 
here. So years ago Keysight loaned me two of them for a month: one with, and 
one without OCXO. Like most counters, the 53230A has an ext-ref input. But it 
is horrible. And the ref output is even worse. I think we've discussed this on 
the list before, including ADEV and PN plots. I decided not to buy one, ever, 
until they fixed the problem.

So it could be a nice counter. Someone at Agilent / Keysight needs to re-design 
the int/ext/mux/pll clock handling of the 53230A; someone who understands phase 
noise and short-term stability; someone who honors the intent of ext-ref-in and 
ref-out; someone who keeps stupid microprocessor / LCD / comms / power supply 
noise out of the clock path. Meanwhile I keep my old 53132A's and older SR620's 
and stay away from the 53230A.

If you have your own measurements, please share. Maybe I just got a bad sample, 
I don't know. But the ext-ref performance smelled like poor engineering to me. 
My hope is that someone on the list will hack a 53230A, fix the problem, and 
share the solution with us, or even with Keysight.

/tvb


> Hi All;
>
> How important is the standard, medium, or high stability reference in 
> counters like the 53230A, or FCA3120 when locked to an ultra low phase noise 
> external reference? Particularly when making measurements and adjustments on 
> other ultra high performance references?
>
> I know Agilent sold 53132A counters with an option (H01 I believe) that 
> bypassed the internal reference completely when and external reference is 
> applied, but I think standard configuration on most counter is to discipline 
> the internal reference.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> Thomas Knox


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[time-nuts] Datum FTS-4065A Cesium Standard - Software Bug

[Ed Palmer]

I just ran across an amusing bug in the system that runs the front panel 
display on my FTS-4065A Cesium Standard.


You can enter the date and time and then have a display of 
day:hour:minute:second on the screen.  But it wouldn't accept the year.  
I discovered that you can't enter a year later than '16'. Okay, so what 
happens on Dec. 31, 2016 when the date rolls over? Why, the program 
crashes, of course!  It only affects the display and a push of the reset 
button quickly restores sanity.  As a work-around, I back-dated the 
setting to 2006 which is the latest year that has the same calendar as 2017.


Ah, the joys of running old equipment! :)

Ed


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[time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Mark Sims]

The problem isn't a cathode or power supply problem.  It is a phosphor problem. 
  Selecting a display mode that lights up characters that are not on the 
default time display shows nice and bright characters there.

The display is a 12 character 14-segment display.   There is a possibility that 
a HP-34401A display might work.   Those are available from China for around 
$50.   I'll look at the display when I mount the new power supply.
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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[Ben Hall]

On 5/9/2017 7:03 PM, Ben Hall wrote:


My little TTL-to-serial adapter is wired RX to pin 7, ground to pin 5, 
TX to pin 3.


CORRECTION:  that should be:

My little TTL-to-USB adapter is wired RX to pin 7, ground to pin 5, TX 
to pin 3.


Sorry / thanks,
ben
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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Often these guys use a “re-branded” driver for this or that. They then stop 
updating / supporting the driver. 
Theirs uses the same files as the “real” driver, but it is hopelessly out of 
date. You have seen the sort of issues
this can cause ….

Bob

> On May 9, 2017, at 7:02 PM, Ben Hall  wrote:
> 
> Good evening Paul and list,
> 
> So I've been working on the LMU300 tonight.
> 
> On 5/6/2017 8:13 PM, ziggy9+time-n...@pumpkinbrook.com wrote:
>> A couple of observations on the LMU300:
>> - the console port is the AEP port, a 6 pin RJ-11 - and you need a 6 pin 
>> connector
>> - the USB port is non-functional
> 
> I decided to verify that the USB was non-functional...just in case your unit 
> had an issue.  Wow I wish I had not!  Win7 started to install a driver, 
> failed to install, then got BSOD.  Reboot...and immediate BSOD. After about 
> an hour of troubleshooting I determined that somehow, and I don't know how 
> this could happen, it corrupted the driver of my Prolific USB-to-Serial 
> converter...as I determined that BSOD only happened when it was plugged in.  
> Had to flush out the driver and reload...and now all is well again.
> 
> My LMU300's GPS never gets past the boot screen...but somehow...the GPS light 
> goes green?  That GPS light must not really be looking at the GPS...or its 
> more akin to a "GPS board seems present" versus "GPS is working, seeing 
> satellites, etc..."
> 
>> - pin 5 or the third pin in the row closest to U19 is the 12v input 
>> (measured). the other 4 are all ground.
> 
> Mine is 12VDC as well - right on the money too.  I thought 15 VDC was odd - 
> the unit has 12VDC fans...why not have one 12 VDC supply and run both the 
> fans and GPS unit from it?
> 
>> - the 15 pin header:
>> - pins 7 and 8 are 3.3v ttl level, and contain the same data as J2 pin 2
> 
> Does this mean that pins 7 and 8 are a TTL serial RX/TX pair that function 
> the same as J2...but without going thru the Sipex TTL-to-RS232 converter?  
> That would be a score for those of us who want to use these things with 
> Arduinos.
> 
> If I get up the courage after my BSOD fun...I may have to try it.
> 
> Time to find that disposable laptop I've got somewhere around here... The 
> LMU300 can BSOD that thing all it wants!  ;)
> 
> thanks much,
> ben
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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[Ben Hall]

Evening all,

Got brave and decided to experiment...and answered my own question below...

On 5/9/2017 6:02 PM, Ben Hall wrote:
Does this mean that pins 7 and 8 are a TTL serial RX/TX pair that 
function the same as J2...but without going thru the Sipex TTL-to-RS232 
converter?  That would be a score for those of us who want to use these 
things with Arduinos.


And the answer is sort of.

What I didn't understand in the original message is that "pins 7 and 8 
are 3.3V TTL level" meant that pins 7 and 8 are connected together.


So...

Pin 7 and 8 are connected together...and are TTL serial out.
Pin 3 and 4 are connected together...and are TTL serial in.

My little TTL-to-serial adapter is wired RX to pin 7, ground to pin 5, 
TX to pin 3.


There is a catch!  If you've got the jumper on J2 from using a real 
RS-232 port...the TTL serial input won't accept commands.  You've got to 
remove the jumper.


This makes me happy - those of us who want to use Arduinos now don't 
need to mess with going TTL to RS232 serial...can go direct TTL to TTL.


thanks much,
ben
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[time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Mark Sims]

I looked closely at the display and can see unused annunciators for frequency, 
us, period, etc.  So the display is the same as used in at least one of their 
frequency counters.  It has 12 alphanumeric digits.
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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[Ben Hall]

Good evening Paul and list,

So I've been working on the LMU300 tonight.

On 5/6/2017 8:13 PM, ziggy9+time-n...@pumpkinbrook.com wrote:

A couple of observations on the LMU300:
- the console port is the AEP port, a 6 pin RJ-11 - and you need a 6 pin 
connector
- the USB port is non-functional


I decided to verify that the USB was non-functional...just in case your 
unit had an issue.  Wow I wish I had not!  Win7 started to install a 
driver, failed to install, then got BSOD.  Reboot...and immediate BSOD. 
After about an hour of troubleshooting I determined that somehow, and I 
don't know how this could happen, it corrupted the driver of my Prolific 
USB-to-Serial converter...as I determined that BSOD only happened when 
it was plugged in.  Had to flush out the driver and reload...and now all 
is well again.


My LMU300's GPS never gets past the boot screen...but somehow...the GPS 
light goes green?  That GPS light must not really be looking at the 
GPS...or its more akin to a "GPS board seems present" versus "GPS is 
working, seeing satellites, etc..."



 - pin 5 or the third pin in the row closest to U19 is the 12v input 
(measured). the other 4 are all ground.


Mine is 12VDC as well - right on the money too.  I thought 15 VDC was 
odd - the unit has 12VDC fans...why not have one 12 VDC supply and run 
both the fans and GPS unit from it?



- the 15 pin header:
 - pins 7 and 8 are 3.3v ttl level, and contain the same data as J2 pin 2


Does this mean that pins 7 and 8 are a TTL serial RX/TX pair that 
function the same as J2...but without going thru the Sipex TTL-to-RS232 
converter?  That would be a score for those of us who want to use these 
things with Arduinos.


If I get up the courage after my BSOD fun...I may have to try it.

Time to find that disposable laptop I've got somewhere around here... 
The LMU300 can BSOD that thing all it wants!  ;)


thanks much,
ben
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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[Ben Hall]

Good evening all,

Apologies for the rash of posts coming from me this evening.

I did hear back from Gary WA2OMY, one of the PackRat guys.  He sent me 
the hex files for both versions of the PackRat.  If y'all sent him and 
e-mail and he didn't get back with you, holler at me and I'll e-mail 
them off-list.


thanks,
ben
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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[Ben Hall]

On 5/6/2017 8:13 PM, ziggy9+time-n...@pumpkinbrook.com wrote:

A few notes on the GPSDO module:
- the 5 pin header near U19, the LM74 temp sensor:
 - pin 5 or the third pin in the row closest to U19 is the 12v input 
(measured). the other 4 are all ground.

- the 15 pin header:
 - pins 1,2,5,6,9,10,13,14 are all ground
 - pins 3 and 4 are 3.3v ttl level, I’m guessing another serial port
 - pins 7 and 8 are 3.3v ttl level, and contain the same data as J2 pin 2
 - pins 11,12 are 1 pps, 10ms, 5v


Hi Paul and list,

When you say "pins 3 and 4 are 3.3v ttl level, and contain the same data 
as J2 pin 2" does that mean that pins 7 and 8 on on the 15 pin header 
are the RX/TX pair TTL side of the SIPEX TTL-to-RS232 chip?

+
One of the things I was hoping for was to find TTL access to the serial 
port so I don't have to go Arduino TTL to RS232 off-board and then go 
back from RS232 with the Sipex chip on the board.


Have taken a look-see on pins 3 and 4 to see if there is any serial data 
coming in / going out of there?


thanks much,
ben


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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[Ben Hall]

On 5/9/2017 9:41 AM, Tim Lister wrote:

cables using LMR-100A cable for the two right angle connectors J9 and
J10 which both seem to be fed from what looks like a SMD transformer
with a LT1761 regulator on the other side of the board. Is this a 1PPS
output - there seems to be a testpoint (TP93) nearby which could help
diagnose it.


Hi Tim and list,

I put the scope on mine last night - J9 and J10 are both 10 MHz outputs 
and J8 is 1 PPS.



Does anyone know of a source for
cables for the J2/serial output or is it OK to use mini-grabbers/0.1"
plugs to a RS232 breakout ?


I built my own - had a leftover serial cable from, ironically enough, an 
old GPS unit with a DB9 on it and bare wires on the other.  I installed 
some 2.54mm crimp connectors onto the bare wires and just plugged it in.


It is full-on RS-232 with real RS-232 signal levels, so don't 
accidentally hook it up to TTL-level serial.  I almost did that the 
other day in my excitement to get it up and working.


Personally, I wouldn't use the mini-grabbers...but that's just me...

thanks,
ben

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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Tim Shoppa]

If you're looking for a modern display screen that is easy to interface to and 
drop-dead beautiful, check out the OLED modules. But on-life is extremely 
limited, often after one or two years defects become visible - not for an 
always-on application.

Tim N3QE

Sent from my VAX-11/780
> On May 9, 2017, at 4:21 PM, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> 
> I've read about people making a replacement using a large LCD graphic
> screen.   A micro controller reads the data lines going to the old display
> and draws characters on the modern screen.Not total rocket science to
> implement but still  it would easier to buy try the easy fixes first (check
> cap, transistors and such or even buy a "for parts not working " unit from
> eBay.But the only units do look nice with a new cell phone screen
> 
>> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Gregory Beat  wrote:
>> 
>> Mark -
>> 
>> Option 001 for the HP-5803B GPSDO
>> featured a 12-character (alphanumeric) Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD).
>> It appears to have been a custom VFD for HP / Agilent (Colons used in time
>> display).
>> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/hp58503a/097-58503-13-iss-1.pdf
>> 
>> Noritake Itron Corp. (Ise Electronics Corp.) of Japan invented the VFD
>> technology in 1967.  Noritake, Newhaven, Futaba, Samsung, and a Chinese
>> mfg. are the 5 major mfg.
>> Three of these companies have their North American HQ offices here in
>> Chicago area.
>> 
>> Futaba in Schaumburg
>> http://www.futaba.co.jp/en/display/vfd/lineup.html
>> 
>> Noritake Itron Company in Arlington Heights
>> https://www.noritake-elec.com/
>> 
>> Newhaven Display in Elgin
>> Company is more of an East Asian importer, but handles custom runs.
>> http://www.newhavendisplay.com/vfd-c-586.html
>> 
>> VFD do have a finite life, and darken as they age.  Samsung states 30,000
>> hours to reach it 80% level (brightness).  You stated your unit has 83,000
>> hours.
>> DOUBLE CHECK DC Power and electrolytic capacitors associated with circuit,
>> this has been known issue with commercial consumer appliances with VFD.
>> The mfg. date on your unit may have been during "bad caps" decade.
>> 
>> greg
>> w9gb
>> ==
>>> I recently got in an HP-58503B GPSDO from a local equipment liquidation
>> auction.
>>> The unit has 83,000 hours of run time.  I think it was last powered up
>> in 2013.
>>> 
>>> The display (VFD) is a bit dim and blotchy.
>>> Does anybody have a replacement display that would look better?
>>> - Mark
>> --
>> Sent from iPad Air
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Bruce Griffiths]

CERN have flagged another potential issue with the 53230A in that every so 
often seemingly randomly communications go hawire.

Bruce 

> 
> On 10 May 2017 at 04:46 "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 5/9/2017 12:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> >
> 
> > > 
> > I'm sure that modern counters like 53230 are better at this than
> > 
> > > 
> The 53230 oven oscillator option in an inferior oscillator to
> the 10811, by an order of magnitude. So in this case,
> modern != better.
> 
> Rick
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Bob Bownes]

On a (slightly) related note, I have a Futaba DRO on my milling machine.
The VFD display, as you mention, had grown very dark from being left on
constantly. As it was a simple display with 6 7 segment digits, conversion
to LED was actually pretty easy. It took about 4 hours one Sunday
afternoon. There are a couple of indicators on the display as well, but
they are not used on my model, however, I could have replaced them with a
single LED and silhouette easily enough.

The process was pull the display, pull the display drivers, replace the
drivers with some header plugs that pass input to output, send the output
to a display board where they go to a pair of 74AHCxxx buffers (inverting
iirc), which then directly drive a pair of three digit common cathode LED
displays.

Bob
KI2L


On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Gregory Beat  wrote:

> Mark -
>
> Option 001 for the HP-5803B GPSDO
> featured a 12-character (alphanumeric) Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD).
> It appears to have been a custom VFD for HP / Agilent (Colons used in time
> display).
> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/hp58503a/097-58503-13-iss-1.pdf
>
> Noritake Itron Corp. (Ise Electronics Corp.) of Japan invented the VFD
> technology in 1967.  Noritake, Newhaven, Futaba, Samsung, and a Chinese
> mfg. are the 5 major mfg.
> Three of these companies have their North American HQ offices here in
> Chicago area.
>
> Futaba in Schaumburg
> http://www.futaba.co.jp/en/display/vfd/lineup.html
>
> Noritake Itron Company in Arlington Heights
> https://www.noritake-elec.com/
>
> Newhaven Display in Elgin
> Company is more of an East Asian importer, but handles custom runs.
> http://www.newhavendisplay.com/vfd-c-586.html
>
> VFD do have a finite life, and darken as they age.  Samsung states 30,000
> hours to reach it 80% level (brightness).  You stated your unit has 83,000
> hours.
> DOUBLE CHECK DC Power and electrolytic capacitors associated with circuit,
> this has been known issue with commercial consumer appliances with VFD.
> The mfg. date on your unit may have been during "bad caps" decade.
>
> greg
> w9gb
> ==
> > I recently got in an HP-58503B GPSDO from a local equipment liquidation
> auction.
> > The unit has 83,000 hours of run time.  I think it was last powered up
> in 2013.
> >
> > The display (VFD) is a bit dim and blotchy.
> > Does anybody have a replacement display that would look better?
> > - Mark
> --
> Sent from iPad Air
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Chris Albertson]

I've read about people making a replacement using a large LCD graphic
screen.   A micro controller reads the data lines going to the old display
and draws characters on the modern screen.Not total rocket science to
implement but still  it would easier to buy try the easy fixes first (check
cap, transistors and such or even buy a "for parts not working " unit from
eBay.But the only units do look nice with a new cell phone screen

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Gregory Beat  wrote:

> Mark -
>
> Option 001 for the HP-5803B GPSDO
> featured a 12-character (alphanumeric) Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD).
> It appears to have been a custom VFD for HP / Agilent (Colons used in time
> display).
> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/hp58503a/097-58503-13-iss-1.pdf
>
> Noritake Itron Corp. (Ise Electronics Corp.) of Japan invented the VFD
> technology in 1967.  Noritake, Newhaven, Futaba, Samsung, and a Chinese
> mfg. are the 5 major mfg.
> Three of these companies have their North American HQ offices here in
> Chicago area.
>
> Futaba in Schaumburg
> http://www.futaba.co.jp/en/display/vfd/lineup.html
>
> Noritake Itron Company in Arlington Heights
> https://www.noritake-elec.com/
>
> Newhaven Display in Elgin
> Company is more of an East Asian importer, but handles custom runs.
> http://www.newhavendisplay.com/vfd-c-586.html
>
> VFD do have a finite life, and darken as they age.  Samsung states 30,000
> hours to reach it 80% level (brightness).  You stated your unit has 83,000
> hours.
> DOUBLE CHECK DC Power and electrolytic capacitors associated with circuit,
> this has been known issue with commercial consumer appliances with VFD.
> The mfg. date on your unit may have been during "bad caps" decade.
>
> greg
> w9gb
> ==
> > I recently got in an HP-58503B GPSDO from a local equipment liquidation
> auction.
> > The unit has 83,000 hours of run time.  I think it was last powered up
> in 2013.
> >
> > The display (VFD) is a bit dim and blotchy.
> > Does anybody have a replacement display that would look better?
> > - Mark
> --
> Sent from iPad Air
> ___
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> and follow the instructions there.
>



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Gregory Beat]

Mark -

Option 001 for the HP-5803B GPSDO
featured a 12-character (alphanumeric) Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD).
It appears to have been a custom VFD for HP / Agilent (Colons used in time 
display).
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/hp58503a/097-58503-13-iss-1.pdf

Noritake Itron Corp. (Ise Electronics Corp.) of Japan invented the VFD 
technology in 1967.  Noritake, Newhaven, Futaba, Samsung, and a Chinese mfg. 
are the 5 major mfg.
Three of these companies have their North American HQ offices here in Chicago 
area.

Futaba in Schaumburg
http://www.futaba.co.jp/en/display/vfd/lineup.html

Noritake Itron Company in Arlington Heights
https://www.noritake-elec.com/

Newhaven Display in Elgin
Company is more of an East Asian importer, but handles custom runs.
http://www.newhavendisplay.com/vfd-c-586.html

VFD do have a finite life, and darken as they age.  Samsung states 30,000 hours 
to reach it 80% level (brightness).  You stated your unit has 83,000 hours.
DOUBLE CHECK DC Power and electrolytic capacitors associated with circuit, this 
has been known issue with commercial consumer appliances with VFD.
The mfg. date on your unit may have been during "bad caps" decade. 

greg
w9gb
==
> I recently got in an HP-58503B GPSDO from a local equipment liquidation 
> auction.  
> The unit has 83,000 hours of run time.  I think it was last powered up in 
> 2013.   
>
> The display (VFD) is a bit dim and blotchy.   
> Does anybody have a replacement display that would look better?
> - Mark
--
Sent from iPad Air
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[time-nuts] Anthorn eLoran

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

Iain Young wrote:
I now have all four with green tracking lights, so  looks good to go
 
Thanks Iain,
 
Also looking good here now so seems like I cried wolf after all,  although 
very happy it wasn't anything more permanent:-)
 
Nigel, GM8PZR
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 5/9/2017 12:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


I'm sure that modern counters like 53230 are better at this than


The 53230 oven oscillator option in an inferior oscillator to
the 10811, by an order of magnitude.  So in this case,
modern != better.

Rick
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[time-nuts] TEST Equipment

[ssc VE6OH]

Hi all,

We have received a large amount of test equipment from an estate that 
some of the members may be interested in.


We are sure that all equipment is functioning unless noted.

The complete list may be downloaded from.
 http://alfaradio.ca/Public_html/Consignment_test_equipment.pdf


There are currently no prices as we are still working on the price list.

Any one interested should contact us directly. See the PDF file for 
information.


Shipping is available to every where.

Mitch
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with ExternalReference?

[Tom Van Baak]

Hi Thomas,

About the 53230A -- like many of us I figured there was no point in buying the 
expensive OCXO versions since I have plenty of good 10 MHz references around 
here. So years ago Keysight loaned me two of them for a month: one with, and 
one without OCXO. Like most counters, the 53230A has an ext-ref input. But it 
is horrible. And the ref output is even worse. I think we've discussed this on 
the list before, including ADEV and PN plots. I decided not to buy one, ever, 
until they fixed the problem.

So it could be a nice counter. Someone at Agilent / Keysight needs to re-design 
the int/ext/mux/pll clock handling of the 53230A; someone who understands phase 
noise and short-term stability; someone who honors the intent of ext-ref-in and 
ref-out; someone who keeps stupid microprocessor / LCD / comms / power supply 
noise out of the clock path. Meanwhile I keep my old 53132A's and older SR620's 
and stay away from the 53230A.

If you have your own measurements, please share. Maybe I just got a bad sample, 
I don't know. But the ext-ref performance smelled like poor engineering to me. 
My hope is that someone on the list will hack a 53230A, fix the problem, and 
share the solution with us, or even with Keysight.

/tvb


> Hi All;
> 
> How important is the standard, medium, or high stability reference in 
> counters like the 53230A, or FCA3120 when locked to an ultra low phase noise 
> external reference? Particularly when making measurements and adjustments on 
> other ultra high performance references?
> 
> I know Agilent sold 53132A counters with an option (H01 I believe) that 
> bypassed the internal reference completely when and external reference is 
> applied, but I think standard configuration on most counter is to discipline 
> the internal reference.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> 
> Thomas Knox


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Re: [time-nuts] Anthorn eLoran

[Iain Young]

On 09/05/17 10:20, Iain Young wrote:


Just checked my four Austrons (2 on the "Master", 2 on the "Slave" signal.

All four had lost tracking, all four sat at acquire at present, and
have been for long enough to suggest they can't lock on.

Hopefully it is a fault, or antenna work, I'll give the Austrons
another prod later if they don't wake up. Last I heard, eLoran
was good until at least the end of 2017 from Anthorn.


I now have all four with green tracking lights, so looks good to go


Iain

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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver

[Tim Lister]

My TruePosition GPS board arrived yesterday, it seems to be identical
to the ones Bob has received down to the same manufacturer of the
antistatic sticker over the bag. Given that I had N, BNC and SMA
cables already I had hoped I might be in good shape but apparently not
so I've had to order 3 new and different cables for the SMB antenna,
MCX and MMCX connectors along the edge. My board came with two 4" MMCX
cables using LMR-100A cable for the two right angle connectors J9 and
J10 which both seem to be fed from what looks like a SMD transformer
with a LT1761 regulator on the other side of the board. Is this a 1PPS
output - there seems to be a testpoint (TP93) nearby which could help
diagnose it.

Hopefully once the new cables arrive on Saturday I will be in a
position to help out on the Linux side and compile any beta versions
of new code if that is helpful. Does anyone know of a source for
cables for the J2/serial output or is it OK to use mini-grabbers/0.1"
plugs to a RS232 breakout ?

Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <54ee7bdd-0a49-cc49-540d-2812e70dd...@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus 
Danielson writes:

>Wither it is proper side bands or other systematic noise, it is bad 
>indeed, [...]

It's more subtle than that, it can be things like thresholds in
the counters trigger being sensitive to the phase of the internal
clock because of (very slight) cross-talk.

I reported data on this a couple of years ago, as I recall my setup
were something like this:

House-10MHz --> HP3336C clk-in and HP5370B clk-in.

HP3336C output -> HP5370B start then 3m coax then HP5370B stop.

Measure TI(start->stop), for different settings of output phase angle on the 
HP3336C.

Theoretically that plot should be a flat line.

In practice it is not even close.

I think I convinced myself that the majority of the problem was trigger-noise 
the HP5370B,
but my notes are not accessible at this time.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi Poul-Henning,

On 05/09/2017 02:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message <60c74d75-41e5-7112-d8b6-721664b89...@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus 
Danielson writes:


Indeed. On the other hand some measurements is hard not to do that way.
One should think about how isolation is created if needed, and this
includes AC and DC, common mode and differential mode. Isolation
amplifier should be part of the arsenal.


EMI is part of it, but there raw synchronism is a significant
source of systematic errors because the "noise" is no longer
gaussian.



Wither it is proper side bands or other systematic noise, it is bad 
indeed, that would be part of the RF differential mode disturbances.
This assumes the source is "clean", and if it is not it should not be 
used to start with. What remains is really issues from the setup, and 
that's when signal integrity/EMI care and isolation amplifiers comes in.


Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

In HP5370A/B you mux sources. In SR620 there is a lockup PLL, as far as 
I remember.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 05/09/2017 01:11 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

If you grab the schematic of pretty much any of these counters, you find a 
fairly common approach.
Somewhere inside is a VHF oscillator. The internal TCXO, OCXO, or Rb acts as a 
phase lock source
for that VHF oscillator. Typical PLL bandwidths are pretty low (10’s of Hz). 
When you put in an external
reference, it acts as the reference to the same PLL.

This does a couple of things. You take care of spurs on the external reference. 
That is the same
thing you do locking up a VHF oscillator to your GPSD for microwave work. You 
get the long term
accuracy (1 second and out) of the external reference. Your phase noise (and 
thus broadband mask
jitter) is improved.

Does every counter on the planet work this way? - of course not. Somewhere 
somebody did it a
different way. As long as they *did* do it this way, the internal reference 
does not matter once you
switch to an external standard. Even if they did it in some other way, if they 
did it right, the same
statement would apply.

Bob


On May 8, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Tom Knox  wrote:

Hi All;

How important is the standard, medium, or high stability reference in counters 
like the 53230A, or FCA3120 when locked to an ultra low phase noise external 
reference? Particularly when making measurements and adjustments on other ultra 
high performance references?

I know Agilent sold 53132A counters with an option (H01 I believe) that 
bypassed the internal reference completely when and external reference is 
applied, but I think standard configuration on most counter is to discipline 
the internal reference.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Thomas Knox

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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver firmware

[J. L. Trantham]

Mark,

I did not find a datasheet specific for your number but I did find a data sheet 
for the S29JL032H90TFI210, if that might be what you have.  If so, I probably 
have a programmer and socket adapter that can read and program it.  I'll see if 
I can find it this week.

Happy to help if I can.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 4:46 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver firmware

I cleaned up the chip without removing any of the markings.  It looks like it 
is a Spansion S29JL032H90TFI21.  Hopefully somebody has a reader that can 
handle it.

Looking at the documentation for the LMU unit that these came out of didn't 
reveal anything new.  There is no mention of an antenna elevation mask or 
signal level mask setting...  it's hard to imagine as GPSDO with those 
(particularly the elevation mask).

Anyway, Heather is now doing a pretty good job of working with it.  It would be 
nice to be able to squeeze some more features out of them...

Oh,  and the seller jacked up the price by $10.   I think you can get the 
complete LMU (shipped) for close to that from one of the sellers.

---

> The two digits before the ? are very important. They describe the 
> memory
format. You may want to put it under your microscope.
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <60c74d75-41e5-7112-d8b6-721664b89...@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus 
Danielson writes:

>Indeed. On the other hand some measurements is hard not to do that way.
>One should think about how isolation is created if needed, and this 
>includes AC and DC, common mode and differential mode. Isolation 
>amplifier should be part of the arsenal.

EMI is part of it, but there raw synchronism is a significant
source of systematic errors because the "noise" is no longer
gaussian.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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[time-nuts] Looking for a HP-58503 display

[Mark Sims]

I recently got in an HP-58503B GPSDO from a local equipment liquidation 
auction.  I had to pay too much, but wanted one to verify Lady Heather's 
support for the HP GPSDO's.  It powered up at the equipment auction preview. 
but not when I brought it home.  After replacing the power supply with a 
Meanwell RQ-15C - $20-$40 instead of $375 for the PowerOne that was in it   and 
replacing the GPS receiver (it had a lot of difficulty tracking more than 2 
sats)  I have it working properly now.  

The unit has 83,000 hours of run time.  I think it was last powered up in 2013. 
  After a week the holdover uncertainty is around 8 us  and the  DAC is at +43%.
 
The display is a bit dim and blotchy.   Does anybody have a replacement display 
that would look better?  Contact me off-list if you have one or know of a 
source.
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

If you grab the schematic of pretty much any of these counters, you find a 
fairly common approach. 
Somewhere inside is a VHF oscillator. The internal TCXO, OCXO, or Rb acts as a 
phase lock source
for that VHF oscillator. Typical PLL bandwidths are pretty low (10’s of Hz). 
When you put in an external
reference, it acts as the reference to the same PLL. 

This does a couple of things. You take care of spurs on the external reference. 
That is the same 
thing you do locking up a VHF oscillator to your GPSD for microwave work. You 
get the long term
accuracy (1 second and out) of the external reference. Your phase noise (and 
thus broadband mask
jitter) is improved. 

Does every counter on the planet work this way? - of course not. Somewhere 
somebody did it a 
different way. As long as they *did* do it this way, the internal reference 
does not matter once you 
switch to an external standard. Even if they did it in some other way, if they 
did it right, the same 
statement would apply. 

Bob 

> On May 8, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Tom Knox  wrote:
> 
> Hi All;
> 
> How important is the standard, medium, or high stability reference in 
> counters like the 53230A, or FCA3120 when locked to an ultra low phase noise 
> external reference? Particularly when making measurements and adjustments on 
> other ultra high performance references?
> 
> I know Agilent sold 53132A counters with an option (H01 I believe) that 
> bypassed the internal reference completely when and external reference is 
> applied, but I think standard configuration on most counter is to discipline 
> the internal reference.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> 
> Thomas Knox
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

On 05/09/2017 09:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message , Magnus 
Danielson writes:


Also, there is a reason that you can buy different internal oscillators,
this is one of them. For labs with their frequency distribution there is
no need to waste money on stand-alone performance.


Please don't forget that running the counter of the same signal as
the circuits being measured runs the risk of masking noise processes.


Indeed. On the other hand some measurements is hard not to do that way.
One should think about how isolation is created if needed, and this 
includes AC and DC, common mode and differential mode. Isolation 
amplifier should be part of the arsenal.



I'm sure that modern counters like 53230 are better at this than
the 5370, but you should always sanity-check your measurements
using the counters internal, undisturbed timebase.


Indeed. When you think you have a risc of disturbance, please do 
measurements to verify the setup.


Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message , Magnus 
Danielson writes:

>Also, there is a reason that you can buy different internal oscillators, 
>this is one of them. For labs with their frequency distribution there is 
>no need to waste money on stand-alone performance.

Please don't forget that running the counter of the same signal as
the circuits being measured runs the risk of masking noise processes.

I'm sure that modern counters like 53230 are better at this than
the 5370, but you should always sanity-check your measurements
using the counters internal, undisturbed timebase.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Anthorn eLoran

[Iain Young]

On 09/05/17 07:49, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts wrote:

Is anybody monitoring eLoran from Anthorn?


Yes


It might that there's a fault or the system is down for antenna
maintenance, there's no alerts on either these days as there is for MSF, or  
perhaps
it's something longer term.

Anyone know what the score is?


Just checked my four Austrons (2 on the "Master", 2 on the "Slave" signal.

All four had lost tracking, all four sat at acquire at present, and
have been for long enough to suggest they can't lock on.

Hopefully it is a fault, or antenna work, I'll give the Austrons
another prod later if they don't wake up. Last I heard, eLoran
was good until at least the end of 2017 from Anthorn.


Iain

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Re: [time-nuts] Anthorn eLoran

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message , GandalfG8--- via time-nuts writes:

>Is anybody monitoring eLoran from Anthorn?

I don't see it here in Denmark either.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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[time-nuts] Anthorn eLoran

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

Is anybody monitoring eLoran from Anthorn?
 
I'm less than 100 miles from the  transmitter but an FS700 has been unable 
to find the  signal for several days. Last time this happened though it 
turned out to be  a local antenna problem so I didn't want to cry wolf until I 
found time to  take a closer look.
 
I'm now monitoring the signal with an LF receiver and  spectrum display 
using a different antenna and the usual 100KHz signal  is missing. I am seeing 
a slowly drifting signal between 103 and 104 Khz  that does look similar to 
a Loran signal but am not set up on this receiver  to do more than just 
observe it so can't be sure just what it is.
 
It might that there's a fault or the system is down for antenna  
maintenance, there's no alerts on either these days as there is for MSF, or  
perhaps 
it's something longer term.
 
Anyone know what the score is?
 
Nigel, GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Counter Internal Oscillator Importance with External Reference?

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi Tom!

On 05/09/2017 03:02 AM, Tom Knox wrote:

Hi All;

How important is the standard, medium, or high stability reference in counters 
like the 53230A, or FCA3120 when locked to an ultra low phase noise external 
reference? Particularly when making measurements and adjustments on other ultra 
high performance references?

I know Agilent sold 53132A counters with an option (H01 I believe) that 
bypassed the internal reference completely when and external reference is 
applied, but I think standard configuration on most counter is to discipline 
the internal reference.

Thanks for your thoughts.


When you provide an external reference, the long term stability becomes 
relatively unimportant. Let's view the two cases:


1) Bypass internal oscillator: If you bypass the internal oscillator and 
always supply an external oscillator, don't waste money on the internal 
reference, it has no use.


2) Lock internal oscillator: If the oscillator is PLL steered, the short 
term noise, i.e. phase-noise, is of relevance, but the long-term only 
cares in the aspect that you can maintain lock, and you can probably 
trim the oscillator to every 5 years to ensure lock, but other than that 
you don't need to waste mony on it. If the phase noise is an issue, you 
could possibly see that in the datahseet/performance spec, but for all I 
have seen, only long term performance is given, so I'd say that you 
should not waste your money there either.


So, unless it will operate as a stand-alone, don't waste money on 
internal reference.


Also, there is a reason that you can buy different internal oscillators, 
this is one of them. For labs with their frequency distribution there is 
no need to waste money on stand-alone performance.


Look at the HP5335A for instance. Standard performance is an XO, and you 
need to trim that regularly to have any kind of performance. The high 
stability option is a 10811. That is quite a jump in performance.


Cheers,
Magnus
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[time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver firmware

[Mark Sims]

No, the TruePosition and Zyfer Nanosync (and TAPR TICC and HP-5071A) support is 
in the next release.  If you can compile the Linux or Windows code, I can send 
you the latest source code.

Also,  the LMU has been measured to run the board at 12V, not 15V.   I know 
that 23V will kill it...

-

> I don't have it on Lady Heather yet but plan to do that soon.  Is the version 
> hosted here ...
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Re: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver firmware

[Bryan _]

Hi Mark:


My TL866A programmer will read it, or it says it will. Unfortunately I don't 
have the TS0P48 adapter. You are welcome to borrow it, perhaps a adapter can be 
made up. They are commonly available on Ebay.


http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-V3-TSOP32-TSOP40-SOP44-TSOP48-Adapter-for-TL866A-TL866CS-Programmer-6pcs-lot-/122478573676?hash=item1c844ab86c:g:hYwAAOSwtZJY-CTP





[cid:bdd0f56e-77c5-4d42-b15d-8a567ae837e1]


-=Bryan=-



From: time-nuts  on behalf of Mark Sims 

Sent: May 8, 2017 2:45 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] TruePosition GPS Receiver firmware

I cleaned up the chip without removing any of the markings.  It looks like it 
is a Spansion S29JL032H90TFI21.  Hopefully somebody has a reader that can 
handle it.

Looking at the documentation for the LMU unit that these came out of didn't 
reveal anything new.  There is no mention of an antenna elevation mask or 
signal level mask setting...  it's hard to imagine as GPSDO with those 
(particularly the elevation mask).

Anyway, Heather is now doing a pretty good job of working with it.  It would be 
nice to be able to squeeze some more features out of them...

Oh,  and the seller jacked up the price by $10.   I think you can get the 
complete LMU (shipped) for close to that from one of the sellers.

---

> The two digits before the ? are very important. They describe the memory
format. You may want to put it under your microscope.
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