Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
If anyone followed the bug on this, you migth have noticed that I had some problems lately. This was caused by a problem with the database , I have to do an analyse; with an sqlite3 tool to fix it. SBS is suposed to this every scan but it failed for some reason in 7.6 beta . Now it's working again. Database access was very ineficient before i fixed the problem. Clear and rescan everything did not help, but maybe a complete cache delete had fixed it ? who knows, if sbs had to build a new dB from . The bug may not be in the latest 7.6 beta can very well be that an earlier version borked it. Now i get 10% cpu spikes instead of 100% when starting an album and cued up ca 1400 24bit tracks in one playlist and it worked. A reminder that running 7.6 beta can get you unusual problems for example a small risk of getting a broken dB . 7.6 is very nice but it is beta so anything can happen. The developers help me finding the cure for the problem thankyou, hopefully they have in the process learned that it does happen in the feild, so it was not a complete waste of their time. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) PLEASE FIX BUG 112 http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=112 Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
I have the same setup SBTouch and Qnap TS-210 and the same kind of problem, but mine is with normal 16@44.1 files. Now it seems to have gone. I went to the advanced-performance tab of Squeezebox Server and did as follows: 1. disable library statistics 2. choose "resizing" instead of "resampling" for covers 3. choose NOT to insert covers in cache To my opinion it might have had little to do with this, but the SS GUI has improved a lot in speed and also the stuttering has gone, at least so far. Hope it helps you too. Ciao -- marcot marcot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38908 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
JohnSwenson;583803 Wrote: > It PROBABLY has nothing to do with YOUR signal strength but everything > to do with the signal strength of an interfering signal. By changing > the antenna configuration you are decreasing interference from some > other source. And its not just at the Touch. The router itself can have > interference which prevents it from hearing the Touch, and also if the > router is getting signals from the outside world that also cuts down on > the bandwidth it can use to talk with the Touch, even if the connection > to the Touch is rock solid. > > John S. mmm... I can't think of much hat could be causing interference. I live in the middle of nowhere, so the nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away. So that mainly leaves stuff in my house. I'll have to pay attention to what else is powered on when I am listening to the Touch. My NAS sits right next to the router. And the router itself houses a USB WAN modem. The antenna for it is right next to the router I could disable the WAN modem and see if it matters. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
TerryS;583727 Wrote: > I was amazed at how much difference it made in the stutter problem, even > though it shows no change in the signal strength or network test > results. It is possible that my stutter problem has been completely > eliminated. Time will tell. > > Terry It PROBABLY has nothing to do with YOUR signal strength but everything to do with the signal strength of an interfering signal. By changing the antenna configuration you are decreasing interference from some other source. And its not just at the Touch. The router itself can have interference which prevents it from hearing the Touch, and also if the router is getting signals from the outside world that also cuts down on the bandwidth it can use to talk with the Touch, even if the connection to the Touch is rock solid. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
guidof;583712 Wrote: > Terry: > > As mentioned in a prior post, re-orienting my router's antenna did cure > the stutter on my SBTouch. You may have a similar problem, in spite of > what the signal strength says. I would further experiment with fine > tuning the WI-Fi before looking for other possible fixes. > > Best wishes. > > Guido F. I was amazed at how much difference it made in the stutter problem, even though it shows no change in the signal strength or network test results. It is possible that my stutter problem has been completely eliminated. Time will tell. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
TerryS;583696 Wrote: > One other experiment I tried: > > I played around with the orientation of the Wi-Fi antennas on my > wireless router. This seemed to have a very large impact on the > start-up stutter. > Terry Terry: As mentioned in a prior post, re-orienting my router's antenna did cure the stutter on my SBTouch. You may have a similar problem, in spite of what the signal strength says. I would further experiment with fine tuning the WI-Fi before looking for other possible fixes. Best wishes. Guido F. -- guidof *Front End*: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge; Cambridge Azur 840C CD Player; Oppo BDP--83 Universal Player; Squeezebox Touch Music File Player (digital out to Cambridge Azur 840C DAC) *Preamps*: Conrad Johnson Motif (Phono); Adcom GFP-750 (Line) *Amps*: Music Reference RM-200 Mk II (Main); Little Tube Mk III (Phones) *Subwoofer Equalizer*: DSpeaker Antimode 8033 *Speakers*: Martin Logan SL3s; REL T1 Subwoofer *Headphones*: AKG K701 guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
One other experiment I tried: I played around with the orientation of the Wi-Fi antennas on my wireless router. This seemed to have a very large impact on the start-up stutter. If I placed the antennas horizontal (facing away from each other) the stutter was much worse, happening close to 50% of the time. Placing them vertically and then orienting the router so that the back of the unit (with the antennas was perpendicular to the Touch, worked much better, with no re-buffering in about 10 tries. But when I look at the signal strength, it reports 100% in both cases, and running the network test at 2000kbps shows no dropouts in either case. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
I tried some experiments today:
First, a recap:
My system is a NAS (QNAP TS-110) hosting the squeezebox server R7.5.1
with a Touch also running 7.5.1
I have a wireless connection from the Touch to the router and a wired
ethernet connection from the router to the NAS.
With this configuration I sometimes experience stutter ("re-buffering")
at the startup of 24/96 FLAC albums. But never after the initial
"re-buffering".
Today I tried running the server on my desktop computer (2.8GHz Pentium
4 with 1.5GB of ram running Windows XP).
I never got a re-buffering with this setup, even though I was still
using the NAS as the music library.
So the desktop (hosting the SB server) was wireless to the router.
The Touch was wireless to the router.
The NAS (with the music library) was wired to the router.
So the music files on the NAS had to make it through one wired and one
wireless connection to get to the server. The server had to go through
two wireless connections to get to the Touch. But it worked perfectly.
CPU usage was usually below 50%, but sometimes did hit 100%.
Then I went back to hosting the SB server on the NAS, but tried moving
the Touch into the room with the router. Even though I was still
wireless, it seemed to take a bunch of tries before I got a
"re-buffering", but it finally did happen. The Touch was only a couple
of feet from the router.
Lastly, I tried a wired connection from the Touch to the router (and
still wired from the router to the NAS), so no wireless at all. I did
get one re-buffering at the very start of the experiment, but then I
tried many, many times without seeing another re-buffering.
So it appears that a combination of a low powered processor in the NAS,
combined with a wireless connection is causing the re-buffering (at
least in my setup). The NAS with a wired network seems like it would
very rarely, if at all have the issue. But the wireless network works
fine with the server on my desktop computer, even though I am using the
wireless path much more than if I use the NAS setup.
I wonder why the changes to the $outputThreshold setting don't seem to
affect anything. I don't see any difference (I don't think) when
changing the setting from 20 to 40, and changing it to 50 or 100
doesn't work at all (no music plays). Maybe the $outputThreshold
setting isn't working as expected?
It is possible that 7.6 release will help enough that my relatively
minor issue will be gone. I'll try it as soon as it is stable enough
for release.
Terry
--
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
The CPU load is interesting it always hit 100% when cuing up an album. But it stays at 100% a bit longer with 24/96 ? This is even when I don't have the web-UI open . But on the other hand I used my controller to choose a tune for my Touch both are squeezeplay devices so both need images to refresh etc . Cueing up an album on my boom from the boom UI gets a CPU spike at 20% . Using controller to start an an album on the boom gives me 80% CPU spike . Using the controller UI and looking at top gave some insights you see a lot of very fast but very high use of the cpu . It's works fine for me but i can see why folks with NAS boxes with non x86 are in trouble. I have an 1,2gHz via-epia (x86) CPU and 1GB of RAM (cc4.2 linux) it's not as fast as the atom and the fpu is there but not great. I have 7.6 wich is faster. My pet theory is that squeezeplays ineficiency is using up all spare cpu at the server (and the device itself) needed when this big files is going to be played. The old type of players loads the server significantly less than the never ones So using Touch's ir remote would be the less CPU intense way to cue up an album for it . I have no idea how much iPeng or the andriod apps spanks the server ? Also avoiding the web-UI when using a slow server would help. Don't use visualizers at all maybe not even the cover art if your server is slow. Wired if possible, the buffer fills faster, wifi eats some cpu at the Touch also. The old 7.5.x do have an option somewhere for "faster artwork resizing" That would be recommended on slow servers (7.6 seems to handle artwork different/faster I think it appears so to me ) Also recoding all 24/96 flac to -5 improved things greatly for me . 7.6 can have a part as it uses SQlite instead of MySQL, this works much better on cpu starved hardware and there seems to be fw improvements to. But don't ever go 7.6 beta if you don't like to tinker and having the wholes system crashing on regular basis. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
souwalker;582933 Wrote: > Wow... > > I am using a QNAP TS210 and was contemplating bying some 96/24 files > from HDtrack's site and after reading this thread, I am abit > concerned. > > Rgds It's an annoying problem for sure, but at the same time, the hi rez files through the Touch sound absolutely amazing. Go for the Touch and work out the stuttering later. -- RadioClash RadioClash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
mdm;583111 Wrote: > Hello, > > I've got the same issue with PCM playback... every first track has a > short pause in the beginning. I looked through squeezebox.pm and saw > that $outputThreshold set to "0", so providing I would change it should > I somehow force the Touch to accept this new value - reboot or > something? > > Regards, > Mike. I'm certainly not the right person to answer this question, but what I did was save the changes to the file, restarted the squeezebox server, and powered the Touch off and back on (using the front panel soft power button, which probably did nothing). I did not do a reset of the Touch with the back panel reset button. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Hello, I've got the same issue with PCM playback... every first track has a short pause in the beginning. I looked through squeezebox.pm and saw that $outputThreshold set to "0", so providing I would change it should I somehow force the Touch to accept this new value - reboot or something? Regards, Mike. -- mdm Touch (SheevaPlug) - CA DacMagic - MF A220 - Kelly Transducers KT3, MF A2CD, MF X-CANS, MF X-LPS, Rega P3(Shure V15VxMR), Sennheiser HD-580/RS-180, Vampire Wire SC/IV & Accuphase Interconnect cables, Chord Prodac (coaxial), Acrotec 6N-S1200(bi-wire) mdm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38528 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
ralphpnj;582935 Wrote: > There's no need for concern. The tracks will play but you may experience > some rebuffering at the very start of the first track and - now this is > important: after that the remainder of the first track and all the > remaining tracks will play fine, as in no more rebuffering. > > Most of the posts in the thread are about how to reset the size of the > buffer, at least I think that's what they are about but in any event is > a lot of work to do to try correct what really is just a minor problem. > So I repeat, there is absolutely no reason for any concern about > playing 24bit/96kHz files. I agree 100%. I am using the QNAP TS-110, which has the same processor and memory as your TS-210. The problem is very minor on my setup. First, like Ralphpnj says, it only happens at the very beginning of an album. The first song in the album that is played. It re-buffers for a couple of seconds shortly after the song starts. After that, everything is perfect. Second, it happens fairly rarely. Maybe once every tenth time or so. This minor "glitch" would certainly not keep me from listening to the excellent 24/96 FLAC from HDTracks. If it ever gets fixed, so much the better, but if it never does, it wouldn't bother me all that much. I did watch the system resources monitor on the NAS last night while playing 24/96. The processor often hits 100% usage when a 24/96 album is first started, so lack of processor power is possibly the reason this is happening. The memory utilization stays at 128MB (out of 256MB available), so I don't think that is the issue. Of course it could also be something else. I will probably try the suggestions given to me to move the server to my desktop computer (just as a learning exercise). But even if I determine that the NAS is the problem, I will keep using the NAS as the host for the server. The re-buffering isn't enough of an issue to make me boot up my computer to listen to music. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Soundman;582993 Wrote: > You may give it another try with a setting of 100 (= 1/10th of a second) > or even above. I tried 100 the other night, but it doesn't work at all at that setting. No music comes out at all. I waited over 60 seconds. The same at a setting of 50. 40 seemed to be the highest I could go and still have it work. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Mnyb;583001 Wrote: > 7.5.0 or 7.5.1 or 7.5.2 > > TRy 7.5.2 if you haven't I can not really recomend 7.6 unless you like > to tinker and experiment :) Sorry I forgot that information: Version: 7.5.2 - r31264 @ Sun Aug 29 02:04:16 PDT 2010 Info on players: Player Model: Squeezebox Touch Firmware: 7.5.1-r9009 Player Model: Transporter Firmware: 80 Wireless Signal Strength: 75% -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter -> Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
ralphpnj;582994 Wrote: > Maybe so, however I experience this problem and my setup is also > completely wired: > > Operating system: Windows 7 - EN - cp1252 > Platform Architecture: 586 > Perl Version: 5.10.0 - MSWin32-x86-multi-thread > MySQL Version: 5.0.22-community-nt > Total Players Recognized: 4 > > I also experience the same rebuffering issue when playing 24/96 files > on my Transporter, which has a wireless connection. > > And as I said earlier, I don't find this to be a major issue just more > of a minor annoyance. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind if it was > fixed :) 7.5.0 or 7.5.1 or 7.5.2 TRy 7.5.2 if you haven't I can not really recomend 7.6 unless you like to tinker and experiment :) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
TerryS;582428 Wrote:
> I finally got WinSPC to work for me and located the Squeezebox.pm
> I tried several settings, going as high as 40:
>
> # Threshold the output buffer for high sample-rate flac.
> if ( $track ) {
> if ( $track->samplerate() && $track->samplerate() >= 88200 ) {
> $outputThreshold = 40;
> }
> }
>
> But I don't really notice any difference.
> Terry
You may give it another try with a setting of 100 (= 1/10th of a
second) or even above.
--
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Mnyb;582987 Wrote: > Not always I don't have this problem at all anymore since the original > bug got fixed, suspect it's partly dependent on the setup. > > My case all wired x86 linux server. Maybe so, however I experience this problem and my setup is also completely wired: Operating system: Windows 7 - EN - cp1252 Platform Architecture: 586 Perl Version: 5.10.0 - MSWin32-x86-multi-thread MySQL Version: 5.0.22-community-nt Total Players Recognized: 4 I also experience the same rebuffering issue when playing 24/96 files on my Transporter, which has a wireless connection. And as I said earlier, I don't find this to be a major issue just more of a minor annoyance. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind if it was fixed :) -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter -> Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
ralphpnj;582935 Wrote: > There's no need for concern. The tracks will play but you may experience > some rebuffering at the very start of the first track and - now this is > important: after that the remainder of the first track and all the > remaining tracks will play fine, as in no more rebuffering. > > Most of the posts in the thread are about how to reset the size of the > buffer, at least I think that's what they are about but in any event is > a lot of work to do to try correct what really is just a minor problem. > So I repeat, there is absolutely no reason for any concern about > playing 24bit/96kHz files. Not always I don't have this problem at all anymore since the original bug got fixed, suspect it's partly dependent on the setup. My case all wired x86 linux server. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
souwalker;582933 Wrote: > Wow... > > I am using a QNAP TS210 and was contemplating bying some 96/24 files > from HDtrack's site and after reading this thread, I am abit > concerned. > > Rgds There's no need for concern. The tracks will play but you may experience some rebuffering at the very start of the first track and - now this is important: after that the remainder of the first track and all the remaining tracks will play fine, as in no more rebuffering. Most of the posts in the thread are about how to reset the size of the buffer, at least I think that's what they are about but in any event is a lot of work to do to try correct what really is just a minor problem. So I repeat, there is absolutely no reason for any concern about playing 24bit/96kHz files. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter -> Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Wow... I am using a QNAP TS210 and was contemplating bying some 96/24 files from HDtrack's site and after reading this thread, I am abit concerned. Rgds -- souwalker souwalker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37673 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
TerryS;582525 Wrote: > . > I may try moving the server to my desktop PC as an experiment, but even > if it worked, I would not leave it that way. I went with the Squeezebox > server on NAS setup specifically because I did not want to host the > server on my computer. I like the NAS solution Understood. But a couple days use on a PC to help diagnose the issue may at least tell you where the problem resides. ;) -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
If it is something to do with the NAS, then it must be an intermittent issue. Most of the time, things work perfectly. But maybe one time out of ten or so, it does the re-buffering at startup. It never has a problem after the initial startup of the album. I noticed last night that when I select the album and song, that the "spinning wheel" will be displayed a bit longer than normal for the times it will re-buffer. So this makes me think that sometimes I get something that is slowing down the communications between the NAS and the Touch. Maybe the NAS is running some background task or something. I suppose I should look into the NAS setup more and make sure all of the tasks are disabled except for the Squeezebox Server. I think there is even a switch I can set in the SSOTS setup that would give the SB server priority. I may try moving the server to my desktop PC as an experiment, but even if it worked, I would not leave it that way. I went with the Squeezebox server on NAS setup specifically because I did not want to host the server on my computer. I like the NAS solution. Even if I can't eliminate this minor issue, I'm still pretty pleased with the way it is working. Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'll keep trying things and report back what I find. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
TerryS, Try installing SBS on a full featured computer (PC or Mac), move a couple of FLAC folders over, and see if those same files stutter. This will help determine if the issue is your QNAP NAS. -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Hi Terry I think it is an issue with the QNAP server not having the 'horsepower' to decompress the hi rez FLAC files. When I was using SqueezeCenter installed on my QNAP TS-210 to decode the 24-96 FLACs, I was getting the stuttering. When I use the SqueezeCenter installed on my PC to decode the FLACs, I do not get the stuttering. I don't think there is any workaround to this. The QNAP just doesn't have the juice for the hi rez FLACS. -- RadioClash RadioClash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
I finally got WinSPC to work for me and located the Squeezebox.pm
I tried several settings, going as high as 40:
# Threshold the output buffer for high sample-rate flac.
if ( $track ) {
if ( $track->samplerate() && $track->samplerate() >= 88200 ) {
$outputThreshold = 40;
}
}
But I don't really notice any difference. I didn't notice that it took
longer for an album to start playing, and it seemed to have the same
frequency of startup stutter issues (maybe once every 10 tries or so).
I'm not sure this has anything to do with my problem. I did notice that
when I selected the album or song, that it would sometimes take longer
to "load" the selection (the spinning wheel would show longer). Then
it would re-buffer at the start of the song. So maybe I've got some
intermittent network condition that is causing this. I will leave it
set to 40 and see if I notice any improvement. Mainly if it would not
stutter when my computer was turned off (only my NAS that is hosting
the SB server on), then I would consider that good enough.
BTW, I noticed that if I set the $outputThreshold = 50, that the music
would never start playing. I waited over a full minute.
Terry
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Soundman;582276 Wrote: > When you open WinSPC you probably get into the directory of your music. > Click on the arrow at the top of the directory. You click several times > until you're in the root directory. Then you click "usr" then > "squeezecenter" and so on, until you are in the "Player" directory > (like in the screenshot), where you find the file "Squeezebox.pm", > which you can modify. > > http://music.1to1-success.com/picture_library/WinSCP.jpg I wasn't even able to open my music directory on the NAS with WinSPC. It would not connect to the server. I'm sure I am just doinng something stupid, but I haven't had time to figure out what I'm doing. I am able to browse to the music folder on the server using a web browser or Widows Explorer, but there doesn't appear to be anything other than the music files. Apparently browsing to the Squeezebox Server files requires some different path that I haven't figured out yet how to get to. Like I said, I have much to learn. This is my first attempt at anything with a Linux OS. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
TerryS;582094 Wrote: > Well, I installed WinSPC but never could get it to connect to my NAS. > Then I realized I don't even know how to browse for files on the NAS. > I can browse to the music directory where all of my music files are > stored, but I can't find the Squeezebox Server files anywhere. I have > much to learn about the NAS. Maybe I'll have to learn some Linux > before it is all over. > But I guess the good news is that even a computer iliterate like me was > able to get the Squeezebox server installed and running on the NAS. > Says a lot about how easy they have made the process. > With winter coming on, maybe I'll have time to learn a bit more about > the NAS and how to work with the files on it. But then maybe there > will be a software upgrade to the Squeezebox server that fixes my > problem first. > Thanks for all the suggestions, > Terry When you open WinSPC you probably get into the directory of your music. Click on the arrow at the top of the directory. You click several times until you're in the root directory. Then you click "usr" then "squeezecenter" and so on, until you are in the "Player" directory (like in the screenshot), where you find the file "Squeezebox.pm", which you can modify. http://music.1to1-success.com/picture_library/WinSCP.jpg -- Soundman Soundman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Well, I installed WinSPC but never could get it to connect to my NAS. Then I realized I don't even know how to browse for files on the NAS. I can browse to the music directory where all of my music files are stored, but I can't find the Squeezebox Server files anywhere. I have much to learn about the NAS. Maybe I'll have to learn some Linux before it is all over. But I guess the good news is that even a computer iliterate like me was able to get the Squeezebox server installed and running on the NAS. Says a lot about how easy they have made the process. With winter coming on, maybe I'll have time to learn a bit more about the NAS and how to work with the files on it. But then maybe there will be a software upgrade to the Squeezebox server that fixes my problem first. Thanks for all the suggestions, Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Soundman;581485 Wrote: > No reason to be afraid at all... Use WinSPC or a similar program and > edit the file (Path: /usr/squeezecenter/Slim/Player/Squeezebox.pm) You > can change the value of $outputThreshold (now is 20) and try different > higher values. Thanks, I'll look into WinSPC and give this a try. It looks like it would only take a minor tweek of this on my system to eliminate this minor annoyance. Other than that, I think the Touch is one of the coolest new toys I've purchased in a long time. I'm very happy with it. The performance, user interface, and sound quality is way better than I expected. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
I don't have this problem since I wired my Touch , just a data point . I also run 7.6 beta ? maybe the fix is in that release. My server is also wired an 1,2GHz via-epia x86 mobo so not superfast,but not glacially slow as an old NAS. Btw don't use the 7.6 beta if your are not prepared for some interesting times ;) right now all transcoding is broken on the rhel platforms with the rpm build for example. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
TerryS;581384 Wrote: > I'm almost afraid to ask > How do I change the $outputThreshold > > Terry No reason to be afraid at all... Use WinSPC or a similar program and edit the file (Path: /usr/squeezecenter/Slim/Player/Squeezebox.pm) You can change the value of $outputThreshold (now is 20) and try different higher values. -- Soundman Soundman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Soundman;581340 Wrote:
> It was this:
>
> You can play around with "$outputThreshold"
>
> # Threshold the output buffer for high sample-rate flac.
> if ( $track ) {
> if ( $track->samplerate() && $track->samplerate() >=
> 88200 ) {
> $outputThreshold = 20;
> }
> }
> Path: /usr/squeezecenter/Slim/Player/Squeezebox.pm
I'm almost afraid to ask
How do I change the $outputThreshold
Terry
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
JohnSwenson;581184 Wrote:
>
> This was all tweaked and constants were worked out for 16/44.1, for
> 24/96 they don't always work. For future releases I think the
> developers are working on a way to change those constants depending on
> the sample rate being used. Several months ago I remember Andy posting
> a way to change this number, but I can't find that post right now.
It was this:
You can play around with "$outputThreshold"
# Threshold the output buffer for high sample-rate flac.
if ( $track ) {
if ( $track->samplerate() && $track->samplerate() >=
88200 ) {
$outputThreshold = 20;
}
}
Path: /usr/squeezecenter/Slim/Player/Squeezebox.pm
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
I went to try a couple of things last night, but strangely, the stutter was gone most of the time. Showed up maybe 1 out of 10 times. Nothing has changed since the night before, when it was having the problem about half the time. I agree with the comment that the problem is not that big of a deal. But it is just about the only thing that isn't working really well with my setup, so it stands out. If the developers are working on a solution that would delay the start a couple of extra seconds for 24/96 files, I will wait for that. If it starts happening more often again, I will probably do some of the experiments suggested. Thanks for the responses and suggestions. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
ralphpnj;581163 Wrote: > I encounter exactly the same issue when playing 24/96 files, i.e. the > file starts playing, stops to re-buffer and then continues playing just > fine. My Touch uses a wired connection so I know that it's not a > wireless network issue. I believe that this behavior is a result of the > Touch's internal buffer not filling up fast enough at the very beginning > of playback. Once the buffer is filled, which it is after the > re-buffering, the Touch plays great. > > So in other words, don't knock yourself out trying to fix your server > and network because the fault is in the Touch. It's a very minor fault > and one I can easily live with especially since this only occurs at the > start of 24/96 playback and not at any other time. My understanding of the issue is this: when going from one song to the next in the playlist (say when playing a whole album), the Touch starts filling up a buffer for the next song while the first is still playing, so when it goes to the next song the buffer is already full and it smoothly goes to the next. When you first start playing a playlist (album) this overlap doesn't exist. Because the buffer is large it would take a long time to completely fill the buffer and many people get annoyed with having to wait many seconds before the music starts, so only a small portion of the buffer gets filled to begin with. While that small portion of the buffer is playing it then tries to fill the rest of the buffer. There is a tradeoff here between trying to keep the initial delay short and having enough time to fill the rest of the buffer. With 24/96 that initial short buffer gets emptied a lot faster so under some circumstances there is not enough time to fill up the rest of the buffer, thus the music stops after a few seconds of playing. This was all tweaked and constants were worked out for 16/44.1, for 24/96 they don't always work. For future releases I think the developers are working on a way to change those constants depending on the sample rate being used. Several months ago I remember Andy posting a way to change this number, but I can't find that post right now. If the number can't get changed the way to improve it is to work on maximizing the rate of getting data to the Touch. Going wired instead of wireless is always going to be an improvement. If you can't go wired just try all the usual wifi things, antenna orientation, changing channels, turning off things that cause wifi interference etc. A slow server can also slow down the rate data gets sent out. In that case try and cut down what the server is doing, take out plugins you don't really need etc. Cut down on the transcoding being done in the server. Don't display cover art. Don't run other programs on the server processor. Or modify the first track on the album, add 5 seconds of silence to the beginning, so even though it stutters you can't hear it! John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
I encounter exactly the same issue when playing 24/96 files, i.e. the file starts playing, stops to re-buffer and then continues playing just fine. My Touch uses a wired connection so I know that it's not a wireless network issue. I believe that this behavior is a result of the Touch's internal buffer not filling up fast enough at the very beginning of playback. Once the buffer is filled, which it is after the re-buffering, the Touch plays great. So in other words, don't knock yourself out trying to fix your server and network because the fault is in the Touch. It's a very minor fault and one I can easily live with especially since this only occurs at the start of 24/96 playback and not at any other time. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter -> Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
I had a similar problem at one point. It was easily solved by rotating the router antenna in a vertical plane so that it points down (my router is upstairs, the listening room downstairs). Never had another re-buffering after that with any resolution file. Guido F. -- guidof *Front End*: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge; Cambridge Azur 840C CD Player; Oppo BDP--83 Universal Player; Squeezebox Touch Music File Player (digital out to Cambridge Azur 840C DAC) *Preamps*: Conrad Johnson Motif (Phono); Adcom GFP-750 (Line) *Amps*: Music Reference RM-200 Mk II (Main); Little Tube Mk III (Phones) *Subwoofer Equalizer*: DSpeaker Antimode 8033 *Speakers*: Martin Logan SL3s; REL T1 Subwoofer *Headphones*: AKG K701 guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Stutter at startup on 24/96 FLAC
Try this 1, wire the touch to the router (for test only, listen trough headphones for example, if you dont happpen to have a long cat5 cable around). 2, Try with the server installed on a computer. 3, Wired touch and server running on a computer. You should not disable flac with such tiny cpu 800mHz marvel and 256Mb of ram ? The music then has to be transcoded to PCM/WAV and that uses up a lot of cpu -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82459 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
