Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
garym wrote: > Unlikely to find much help on the z553 here on this forum. Might have > better luck at the logitech forum: > https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/community/topics thanks for the link. Bernd wartburgritter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=71177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
wartburgritter wrote: > thanks for the fast help.The problem os not related to the squeezebox > touch at all. > > Years ago I bought a set of a squeeze box touch and the speaker system > logitech z553. All the years I have been thinking the speaker belong to > the squeezebox. Just realized I just boight them together. > > OK offtopic than ... I have a problem with the speakersystem z553. On > the big bass speaker one of the small speakers female out connectord > seams broken. Or somewhere else something is wrong. The smalle speakers > are both working. Unlikely to find much help on the z553 here on this forum. Might have better luck at the logitech forum: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/community/topics *Home:* VBA2.5 4TB -or- rPi4B-8GB/pCP7.x/4TB>LMS 8.1.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet) *Cottage:* rPi4B-4GB/pCP7.x/4TB>LMS 8.1.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (Radio WIFI) *Office:* Win10(64)>foobar2000 *The Wild: *rPi3B+/pCP4.0, hifiberry Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite) *Controllers:* iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64) *Files:* -Ripping-: dbpoweramp > FLAC; -Post-rip-: mp3tag, PerfectTunes, TuneFusion; -Streaming:- Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
thanks for the fast help.The problem os not related to the squeezebox touch at all. Years ago I bought a set of a squeeze box touch and the speaker system logitech z553. All the years I have been thinking the speaker belong to the squeezebox. Just realized I just boight them together. OK offtopic than ... I have a problem with the speakersystem z553. On the big bass speaker one of the small speakers female out connectord seams broken. Or somewhere else something is wrong. The smalle speakers are both working. wartburgritter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=71177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
You can adjust balance using the Inguz EQ/DRC plugin, but your issue sounds like a problem with amp and/or speakers. What do you mean "big bass speaker"? Are you talking about a subwoofer? Most subs have a volume control on the rear panel. Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
wartburgritter wrote: > I own a Squeeze Touch. The balance has a problem. One speaker is much > more loud than the other. If I change the cable on the bass speakeron > the box the balance is switched. Means the two small speaker work well > and the wrong balance comes out of the big bass speaker. Two > possibilities ... it is somehow adjusted or something is broken. But it > seams I can not change balance on a Squeezebox Touch. Any help is very > welcome. > > cheers bernd Can you describe the setup a bit more? The model of the speakers and how the wiring from the Touch is done? In these situations, it's good to have a voltmeter around so you can test the output from the Touch by playing a test tone through it and measuring the output voltage. Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
I own a Squeeze Touch. The balance has a problem. One speaker is much more loud than the other. If I change on the box the loudness is switched. Means the wrong balance comes out of the big bass speaker. Two possibilities ... it is somehow adjusted or something is broken. But it seams I can not change balance on a Squeezebox Touch. Any help is very welcome. cheers bernd wartburgritter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=71177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
chaug wrote: The only problem is that 'inguz requires at least a 2 GHz processor' (http://inguzaudio.com/installation/debian/) my LMS is on a NAS with less than that (a 1.8 GHz Atom single core, to be precise). In addition, the NAS runs on Debian Etch and I'm not sure whether that is supported by inguz. But indeed, I have 'installed something similar: ecasound' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102155-Use-Squeezebox-with-wireless-speakersp=791061viewfull=1#post791061). Yet, the problem is that it processes the audio for all SB players the same way (at least I haven't found a way to differentiate between players), which is useless when it comes to L-R balance but also other adjustments. And even if I only had one player, ecasound is somewhat cumbersome to configure so that I'm still hoping for the 'L/R balance control implementation on the SB Touch itself.' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?1-balancep=540344viewfull=1#post540344) Nevertheless, if anyone has gotten inguz working on a ReadyNAS Ultra, please let me know and I'll be happy to try. But my hunch is that it will be too much. I tried to get it working on on my qnap 239 without much joy, but I didn't try all that hard. I'm sure it could manage full drc, but maybe it could be made to do balance. I am currently playing with a Cubox-i4pro, and may have a go at seeing if I can get it going with that. It worked fine with windows 7 although it took a while to work out how to install it. adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
I'm also one of those wondering about balance control on the touch... Or should we give up on this? chaug's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=47641 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Perhaps mentioned already, I haven't read all 7 pages of posts, but don't the older SB1 and SB2 have a balance control option? Seems to me there were also options for treble and base unless that has all gone away with firmware updates. It has been awhile since I used those but if balance is really important those units are pretty cheap on EBay Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1410276236 @ Wed Sep 10 04:02:02 UTC 2014 Operating system: Debian - EN - utf8Platform Architecture: x86_64-linux Perl Version: 5.18.2 - x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi Audio::Scan: 0.95 Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1) One SB Touch connected by ethernet - Denon AVR -1912 Receiver, Paradigm 4.1 speakers Two SB Radio wireless SlimChances's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=165 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
SlimChances wrote: Perhaps mentioned already, I haven't read all 7 pages of posts, but don't the older SB1 and SB2 have a balance control option? Seems to me there were also options for treble and base unless that has all gone away with firmware updates. It has been awhile since I used those but if balance is really important those units are pretty cheap on EBay Not in SB2/3 but SB1 had some tone controls due to the audio chip used , ie was in the hardware . And boom has tone controlls due to builöt in DSP chip used for speaker eq and xover . Balance would be the easiest to write as this only requires a plugin to send different volume to left and rigth and its already partly there in the code . Tone controlls require a DSP plugin on the server as the hardware on ther players wont be able to run the math properly thus not so feasible unless someone resurrects inguz or make a more user friendly brutefir plugin or similar , but it wont fit inside Touch or Radio's own firmware or hardware ( i think ) . Why is none one feeling the pressing needs for it ? My 0.02$ Tone controls would been nice on the Radio as this one would be deployed in various sub optimal scenarios , but they missed that in the design phase ,they would probably be hardware possibly analog if ever done, now its to late :/ Touch is a source component , you dont see tone controlls on your CD or DVD players either because it's better done in a preamp ht reciever or whatnot. But with the rise of more active speakers it's a feature missed in some of those speakers . But in my collection of actives some of them has both balance and tone controlls . Some has no balance but individual rigth and left volume , one pair has an adjustable treble level to accommodate for placement issues . Maybe its a habit a leftover from my audiophile days but i rarley feel the need to adjust the spectral content , possibly due that soem of equipment sound rather good combined with some respect for the artist and producers choices and i tend to avoid completely useless speaker placements . OT . how do they do this on a phone ? are they cheating a lot to make it happen ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Hi Steve, nope I haven't released anything yet, been totally swamped time wise. After the current projects go out the door I'll see if I can take a week off work and get caught up on a few things. That is if my boss will let me take some time off. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
John: I have been searching the forums for a L/R balance solution for the SB Touch and found this post. Any progress on a solution? Maybe I missed it somewhere in the forums, but I can not find any posted solutions. Any useable implementation would be great. Thanks, Steve -- sledwards sledwards's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51970 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
John (Me too) It's certainly a wish rather than a need for me. It would be nice to avoid having to buy an additional amp to split the L + R channels. -- onimod onimod's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38914 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
guidof;583603 Wrote: John: I for one would be very grateful for balance control, no matter how quick and dirty the implementation. Guido F. I haven't touched it in several months. The balance part is working fine, the problem is getting the graphical elements to display properly in the window. I can probably throw together something quickly that just has a number readout and right and left buttons without a slider. Lets say a number of 50 is centered and 1 is all the way to the left and 99 is all the way to the right. That should not be all that difficult to put together. Things are really busy right now, so it might be a couple weeks before I can get to it. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
JohnSwenson;583790 Wrote: I haven't touched it in several months. The balance part is working fine, the problem is getting the graphical elements to display properly in the window. I can probably throw together something quickly that just has a number readout and right and left buttons without a slider. Lets say a number of 50 is centered and 1 is all the way to the left and 99 is all the way to the right. That should not be all that difficult to put together. Things are really busy right now, so it might be a couple weeks before I can get to it. John S. John: Thank you very much for your willingness to work on this item. But please don't rush! It's *not* something one must have today, though it would be a nice addition to the Touch's capabilities. A numerical (rather than graphical) display would, I think, be sufficient, at least as far as I'm concerned. Guido F. -- guidof *Front End*: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge; Cambridge Azur 840C CD Player; Oppo BDP--83 Universal Player; Squeezebox Touch Music File Player (digital out to Cambridge Azur 840C DAC) *Preamps*: Conrad Johnson Motif (Phono); Adcom GFP-750 (Line) *Amps*: Music Reference RM-200 Mk II (Main); Little Tube Mk III (Phones) *Subwoofer Equalizer*: DSpeaker Antimode 8033 *Speakers*: Martin Logan SL3s; REL T1 Subwoofer *Headphones*: AKG K701 guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
JohnSwenson;540344 Wrote: I'm working on a quick and dirty implementation of a balance control right now. Its just going to be available from a Touch menu, no webUI, no dedicated buttons on the IR remote, but you should be able to use the arrow keys on the remote to navigate the menus and virtually push the buttons. I don't have much time to work on it so it will probably be a few days before I can get it working. This will be a quick and dirty hack, so hopefully something can be done nicely in the future. After I have a test version out, a couple of you can try it and we can fine tune it. John S. John Did you efforts eventuate into anything? Nick -- onimod onimod's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38914 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
JohnSwenson;540344 Wrote: I'm working on a quick and dirty implementation of a balance control right now. . John: I for one would be very grateful for balance control, no matter how quick and dirty the implementation. Guido F. -- guidof *Front End*: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge; Cambridge Azur 840C CD Player; Oppo BDP--83 Universal Player; Squeezebox Touch Music File Player (digital out to Cambridge Azur 840C DAC) *Preamps*: Conrad Johnson Motif (Phono); Adcom GFP-750 (Line) *Amps*: Music Reference RM-200 Mk II (Main); Little Tube Mk III (Phones) *Subwoofer Equalizer*: DSpeaker Antimode 8033 *Speakers*: Martin Logan SL3s; REL T1 Subwoofer *Headphones*: AKG K701 guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Mnyb;540374 Wrote: What I wonder here is. Is there any guideline or consensus for when a setting. 1. Should be local ? 2. Integrated with the squeezeboxserver ? 3. Integrated with squeezeboxserver and mysqueezebox.com ? 1 2 is possible for 3rd party devs to accomplish 3 needs logitechs cooperation. As far as I know there isn't any guideline available, at least have haven't seen any. I suspect it's decided based on if the server needs to know about the setting or if it needs to be possible to remote control from a Controller, if it doesn't it's handled locally. Things that needs to be remotely controlled by a Squeezebox Controller have to be known by the server or accessed through the server. If a typical user likes to sit in the couch when changing something, it needs to be accessible through the Controller. That's one reason why for example volume is possible to control/view via the server. Some typical guidelines when things should be implemented/accessible through eh server: - When the typical user is going to control it from the couch - When it's something that's changed several times a week Third party add-ons are probably going to focus on local applet implementation/patches because patching the server isn't fun at all, especially on Windows where it's a compiled exe. Some things can be implemented as third party plugins on the server side but many of these things will require modifications to the core code of the server to make it a good solution. Also most settings accessible through the server are also expected to work on MySB unless it's something that's only relevant to local music. I suspect balance would have been accessed via the server if Logitech implemented it, because they probably want it to be accessible by a Squeezebox Controller. We are probably going to see a local implementation if it's done by third parties, at least initially. For the balance setting, I personally don't think a local implementation is a big problem, most users that like to setup balance is probably going to set it up once and then never touch it again. In most cases, the reason to adjust balance is because of non optimal room layout or speaker placement. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
... or hearing difficulties. The use-case where it isn't set forget has been exposed in this thread already - sub-optimal recordings. In this use-case my opinion is that the recording should be permanently fixed via editing, because then it will be usuable on other players which may not have balance control either. So, a player-side patch would work for most people who need this feature and there is a viable workaround (that IMO is actually a better solution anyway) for the rest. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
May I add another use case for your consideration. I have a set of CDs that consist of contra dance music played more slowly and simply than normal so that musicians that play by ear and are not very proficient can learn the tunes. The tunes have been recorded with the instruments carrying the tune on one channel and the accompanying instruments on the other channel. Once you think that you are capable of playing with a group, you turn off the volume on which ever channel you are playing and you supply the missing music, providing an opportunity to experience ensemble playing without terminal embarrassment. (Example: if I live long enough, I may finally learn one of the tune on my button accordion. Then I can turn off the fiddle channel and play while the guitar accompanies me on the other channel.) It would be handy to be able to do that without having to save the two channels to separate files. I do understand that this will not be a priority for the Logitechs. It is just that with folks working on the balance issues, I thought they might like to know about this case. As far as I am concerned there is no rush. My accordion playing is not even up to the slow uncomplicated level, but it would be a public service to implement a function that would divert me from ever taking it out in public. -- mpower9 mpower9's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33930 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Don't forget that the humans sometimes in their older years or after some damage in their youth lose some hearing and require adjustments left and right. Just sayin' that while it can sometimes seem like it's obvious to adjust the content the feature has some real purpose for some people. -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pounce wrote: Just sayin' that while it can sometimes seem like it's obvious to adjust the content the feature has some real purpose for some people. I don't think anyone is arguing with you that for some people some of the time, a balance control can be useful. It might even be a useful feature to add in some future release of the Touch software. So if you want, feel free to enter a RFE into the bugzilla. But don't hold your breath waiting or it, there are a lot of things that will be more useful to more people more often already on the list. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pfarrell;540023 Wrote: And a more modern solution to this problem is to use an audio editor on the data file, and adjust it once. Balance is very subjective and easiest done with a remote from the listening position. Not everyone is set up to do this conveniently with a DAW. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Daverz;540105 Wrote: Balance is very subjective and easiest done with a remote from the listening position. Not everyone is set up to do this conveniently with a DAW. Do you really adjust balance a lot/often? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Phil Leigh;540116 Wrote: Do you really adjust balance a lot/often? I don't have a balance control on my pre-amp! I bought into the whole audiophile purity thing, regrettably. No balance control, tone controls, loudness, etc. I did have a balance control on my older gear and did use it occasionally. The thing is, you may never use a balance control often, but when you need it, you really need it. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Phil Leigh;540116 Wrote: Do you really adjust balance a lot/often? Phil, I'm curious if you are challenging the need for some people at all or you are trying to get a sense of the importance of it to determine if you believe the feature is one that should be added. THE DEVICE HAS A HEADPHONE OUT ON IT. I don't think it's unreasonable to think people might want or expect some of the basic functionality they seem to have in their other electronics that produce sound. Now sure why so many people are defensive on the issue and are being so negative to the issue instead of just saying Sure, I can see how people might benefit from this feature and then just move on... Killing peoples ideas and challenging them on their needs when you are a more Sr member alienates the new members. I'm just not sure why this community needs to say things like: ...But don't hold your breath waiting or it... I think it would be better for Logitech to be making this kind of statement unless we enjoy being totally negative and want to help give customers the impression (real or not) that development on this new product is poorly supported and that they should just return the device /rant -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Phil Leigh;540116 Wrote: Do you really adjust balance a lot/often? Phil, I'm curious if you are challenging the need for some people at all or you are trying to get a sense of the importance of it to determine if you believe the feature is one that should be added. THE DEVICE HAS A HEADPHONE OUT ON IT. I don't think it's unreasonable to think people might want or expect some of the basic functionality they seem to have in their other electronics that produce sound. Now sure why so many people are defensive on the issue and are being so negative to the issue instead of just saying Sure, I can see how people might benefit from this feature and then just move on... Killing peoples ideas and challenging them on their needs when you are a more Sr member alienates the new members. I'm just not sure why this community needs to say things like: ...But don't hold your breath waiting or it... I think it would be better for Logitech to be making this kind of statement unless we enjoy being totally negative and want to help give customers the impression (real or not) that development on this new product is poorly supported and that they should just return the device /rant -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pounce;540163 Wrote: I think it would be better for Logitech to be making this kind of statement unless we enjoy being totally negative and want to help give customers the impression (real or not) that development on this new product is poorly supported and that they should just return the device A product isn't really badly supported just because Logitech doesn't add more functionality AFTER you have purchased it. Most electronic products get no added functionality what so ever after the purchase, if you want more functionality you need to buy the next version of most electronic products. Logitech (or at least Slim Devices) have historically been an exception to this rule, I think their oldest player still works with the latest version of Squeezebox Server even if it was release many years ago. Due to this it also have a lot more functionality today than it had before. It would certainly be better if Logitech stated these kind of things but as a customer I'd honestly prefer that someone that has been around for a while and see the trends stated it than that no one at all stated it. I think most of the people that have been on these forums for a few years see the same trends as Phil indicates. I don't think we should expect that Logitech will be adding a lot of functionality to this product after you have purchased it. Unless they increase the amount of development resources I strongly suspect that Logitech will focus on fixing bugs and implementing future products. If we are lucky some of the features implemented for future products will be reusable on the Touch but it's not always going to be the case. However, the good news is that most of the software, both server and firmware, is released under an open source license. Due to this I also suspect that we will see a lot of added functionality through third party developers. So to sum it up, the future is bright after all... -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pounce;540163 Wrote: Phil, I'm curious if you are challenging the need for some people at all or you are trying to get a sense of the importance of it to determine if you believe the feature is one that should be added. THE DEVICE HAS A HEADPHONE OUT ON IT. I don't think it's unreasonable to think people might want or expect some of the basic functionality they seem to have in their other electronics that produce sound. Now sure why so many people are defensive on the issue and are being so negative to the issue instead of just saying Sure, I can see how people might benefit from this feature and then just move on... Killing peoples ideas and challenging them on their needs when you are a more Sr member alienates the new members. I'm just not sure why this community needs to say things like: I think it would be better for Logitech to be making this kind of statement unless we enjoy being totally negative and want to help give customers the impression (real or not) that development on this new product is poorly supported and that they should just return the device /rant No I wasn't challenging the absolute need for it - I don't see how you could read that into my post - as I said in an earlier post if people use Balance at all my experience is that they set the balance once and then leave it alone, rather than continuously fiddling with it. Therefore, the most common use-case would be some way to trim the balance as more of a one-off exercise (unlike volume). I haven't touched a balance control in nearly 20 years, personally. (Anyway, My TACT takes care of that automatically these days..and much more accurately than I would by hand/ear - and it's not just a matter of level but also time delay if you are using speakers that are asymmetric to your listening position). I understand that some folk have a hearing imbalance and so would benefit. I was just trying to ascertain how readily accessible/easy to use such a feature needed to be. I have no issue at all with the feature being added. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Thanks for the clarification. Your question: Do you really adjust balance a lot/often? ..does come across a bit challenging, but forums are silent and we don't have any visual cues to know how we mean things. I think the 'really' in the question gave the tone. -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Well, the main point here is what Erland mentioned: It is probably very easy to implement a balance control on the Touch itself, it's much more challenging to make this remotely controllable. The one thing I'm fearing here is that we are getting a lot of these examples: Things you can do on the device itself but which you can't control remotely. This would drastically reduce usability and value of the Squeezeboxes for me. The sole reason I bought into the Squeezebox universe is the fact that I could do everything remotely. The Touch already now is a big step back in that respect, not through TinySC (which can be remotely controlled event though I don't like the fact that it lacks a WebUI) but through Applets like iPlayer which can not. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Daverz wrote: pfarrell;540023 Wrote: And a more modern solution to this problem is to use an audio editor on the data file, and adjust it once. Balance is very subjective and easiest done with a remote from the listening position. Not everyone is set up to do this conveniently with a DAW. This is the touch forum. Its hard to see how you need to adjust the balance much if you are close enough to use the touch screen. A decade about, I would agree that not everyone could use a DAW. Even inexpensive ones cost $100 and good ones were close to a grand. But these days, thee are lots of free and low cost tools, most without the complexity of a DAW of old. But I point this approach out as a solution fof 80% of the folks who might actually have this problem, and who don't want to wait three to five years for Logitech to implement one. Add an RFE is free, and as always, patches welcome. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pounce wrote: I'm curious if you are challenging the need for some people at all or you are trying to get a sense of the importance of it to determine if you believe the feature is one that should be added. I'm not Phil, but unless shown otherwise, I think its a feature of low value for 99% of the customers. And because of that, its not going to be high on the Logitech engineer's priority list. Since the code is open source, of course, someone else who thinks its important can implement it. THE DEVICE HAS A HEADPHONE OUT ON IT. I completely don't follow this. Of course it has a headphone output, and if you use headphones, the one big argument that sometime you are not sitting in the sweet spot goes right out the window. I don't think it's unreasonable to think people might want or expect some of the basic functionality they seem to have in their other electronics that produce sound. I have no problems with people wanting it. And I expect that it will happen sometime. Now sure why so many people are defensive on the issue I'm not negative on this issue, but I believe I'm being realistic. Adding a minor feature that will make a tiny percentage of the potential purchasing customers change their mind is not high on the priority list of any product company. ...But don't hold your breath waiting or it... I think it would be better for Logitech to be making this kind of statement Logitech never comments on future plans. They won't talk about it. Again, this is a customer cooperative help forum. It is not where you go for official support or for official product specifications. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
If this was really needed via remote I would imagine the two options would be using a Controller or using a universal remote. Implementing with a Controller would probably be the the most ideal since you would pick up a lot of functionality and would be dealing with SqueezeOS on both devices, but more costly for the end user. A universal remote could add some IR codes which could then be passed into the event system to address balance. I looked for documentation on the IR events, but didn't find much. I did not look through the code or see if this code is public. -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pfarrell;540192 Wrote: THE DEVICE HAS A HEADPHONE OUT ON IT. [/color] I completely don't follow this. Of course it has a headphone output, and if you use headphones, the one big argument that sometime you are not sitting in the sweet spot goes right out the window. When you are using the headphone out there isn't even a chance of other customer equipment between the Touch and the listener. This means that there is typically no way to put the issue of some form of balance control on the customer by using their receiver etc. This means that if a person is listening off the headphone jack and is in need of some balance control due to a a situation (bootleg live concert, hearing problem etc) they don't have any ability to do so. When comparing the use cases for a balance control it's a little easier to lower the priority when you look at the outputs to customer equipment like the spdif's and analog out. The point is that when you consider the use case of the headphone jack the onus is on the Touch almost completely. Does that help? -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pippin;540212 Wrote: It would not work with the controller either without a plugin. I was really suggesting something native. -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
As an aside, I can't recall any LP Turntables or CD players that had built in balance controls. The touch is a 'source' component. If you want balance, have it as part of your post source - amplification / DSP / EQ etc. I regard the headphone out as a convenience. For serious headphone listening, I use the touch ( and transporter) at 100% volume, via the analogue outputs into dedicated high quality headphone amps. There are amps and headphone amps out there with balance controls. Problem solved! :) -- Grahame Grahame's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Phil Leigh;540216 Wrote: These bootleg live concerts.. are they legal then :-) In many cases, yes. I've found some good stuff on Archive.org. Perhaps I used the word bootleg wrong. ;) It looks to be quite easy to implement... What are your thoughts about using the remote or a remote? -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pounce;540213 Wrote: I was really suggesting something native. What do you mean by native? The question is whether you implement this on the Touch (no remote control other than IR) like e.g. the diagnostics menu or in the server. The latter includes extensive UI work and probably settings sync with MySB and is less likely to happen due to this. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pippin;540229 Wrote: What do you mean by native? The question is whether you implement this on the Touch (no remote control other than IR) like e.g. the diagnostics menu or in the server. The latter includes extensive UI work and probably settings sync with MySB and is less likely to happen due to this. Not being as intimate with the inner working as much as you or many of the others...By Native I mean to add the functionality as core code and not in the form of an applet or otherwise. Are you suggesting that the Controller cannot control a Touch when you say no remote control other than IR? -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pounce;540239 Wrote: Not being as intimate with the inner working as much as you or many of the others...By Native I mean to add the functionality as core code and not in the form of an applet or otherwise. That doesn't make any difference. Most functionality in the user interface of the Touch or controller is being implemented as applets, most functionality in the server as plugins. Native or 3rd party is only a question of who writes the code Are you suggesting that the Controller cannot control a Touch when you say no remote control other than IR? No. What I've been saying - and I wrote this twice now, is that you need to go through a server to do that. That's been the case with all older SB models - you were only controlling them through the server - but it's NOT the case for applets. You can't remotely control applet functionality form a Controller, a web UI, iPeng or whatever unless you implement that functionality in the server and use the applet only for the user interface. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
How does the IR code architecture work? When an IR command is captured by the hardware on the Touch what happens? Can I assume that there is some native library on the OS that captures that and somehow passed that to what you are calling the server? When I press the ffw button the IR remote for the Touch what are the series of events that happen to both update the UI and execute the action? What is the lowest level at which SqueezeOS devices can talk to each other? If TinySBS is not running on the Touch can the Controller still control the Touch? -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Grahame;540214 Wrote: As an aside, I can't recall any LP Turntables or CD players that had built in balance controls. The touch is a 'source' component. If you want balance, have it as part of your post source - amplification / DSP / EQ etc. I regard the headphone out as a convenience. For serious headphone listening, I use the touch ( and transporter) at 100% volume, via the analogue outputs into dedicated high quality headphone amps. There are amps and headphone amps out there with balance controls. Problem solved! :) This is a good point. There doesn't seem to be an issue in purchasing a preamp without balance control functionality, which is where it has always resided. And yet some feel slighted when this capability is not implemented in a source component. Someone mentioned that Sonos provided this feature, don't they also produce an amplified player where this would be required? -- ghostrider ghostrider's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18959 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pounce;540253 Wrote: How does the IR code architecture work? When an IR command is captured by the hardware on the Touch what happens? Can I assume that there is some native library on the OS that captures that and somehow passed that to what you are calling the server? When I press the ffw button the IR remote for the Touch what are the series of events that happen to both update the UI and execute the action? What is the lowest level at which SqueezeOS devices can talk to each other? If TinySBS is not running on the Touch can the Controller still control the Touch? The Controller can control the Touch if you have an external squeezebox server running, if you don't use the internal one. It's how most of use the Touch right now as a player without using the internal server option. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe'Primare and Dynadio speakers (including a pair of Contour 4 ) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Mnyb;540258 Wrote: The Controller can control the Touch if you have an external squeezebox server running, if you don't use the internal one. It's how most of use the Touch right now as a player without using the internal server option. Ok. Gotcha. If the server (running on another box) can control the Touch how is it doing this? What's the interface on the Touch that the Server would use to control aspects of the Touch? -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pounce;540261 Wrote: Ok. Gotcha. If the server (running on another box) can control the Touch how is it doing this? What's the interface on the Touch that the Server would use to control aspects of the Touch? Ok. Basics. Here's a 1x1 on how a Squeezebox works. To begin with, let's answer your question (although for the 4th time): Squeezeplay devices can't talk to each other. Never. A Squeezebox is (in principle) a dumb device that has NO control over itself. Everything, music, volume, play/pause, whatever, is being controlled by a Squeezebox Server or MySqueezebox.com (which is also a server). Even most menus you see on your Touch are not being provided by the touch but delivered by the server. Most player settings reside on the server and are being transmitted to the server through a control connection. Whenever you now control a Squeezbox, what you _really_ do is tell the server that it should tell the Squeezebox what to do. This is even the case when you use the UI on the Touch. The UI will tell the server what to do which in turn will talk back to your Touch (the player software, in this case) to tell it what to do. Now the special case with the Touch is that it does run an instance of such a server by itself, but that doesn't change the fact that this is how it works. Now the changes discussed here on how you could _simply_ add balance controls or a fixed audio output all are talking about hacking the touch so that these settings _directly_ affect the player software on the touch. In an ideal, official scenario, all of this would be implemented through the server so that it can be remotely controlled, but since this will require a lot of changes on the server side (as I mentioned several times before: UI, sync with MySb, a known settings, a protocol,...) it's probably not going to happen soon. So you have two choices: 1. easy hack. Simple to do, may be provided by a 3rd party as a patch. NOT remotely controllable through the server. 2. full scale implementation. Can do everything you want but requires a plugin on the server side. Probably not going to happen from Logitech, could be done by 3rd parties, but again: lot of work. IR-Remotes are a bit in between. Actually I'm not sure whether they can directly act on the player part for the Touch (I think no but I'm not sure) but they can definitely act like a mouse, just controlling the menu which means you can use them to activate any local functionality on the touch. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pippin;540295 Wrote: IR-Remotes are a bit in between. Actually I'm not sure whether they can directly act on the player part for the Touch (I think no but I'm not sure) but they can definitely act like a mouse, just controlling the menu which means you can use them to activate any local functionality on the touch. For Touch and Radio, absolutely they can act on the player directly. Configuring the screensaver on Radio with a Squeezebox IR remote? That's 100% local on Radio. Adjusting the volume? 90% on Radio -- Radio will try to tell the server what the volume has changed to after the fact, but is not dependent on a server at all. Playing a preset is only 20% Radio -- Radio tries to remember whether the server has a preset stored for the button you press (and code running 100% on Radio will ignore the button if Radio thinks there's no preset); press a button that Radio thinks has a preset associated, and Radio will turn itself on (local code), then tell the server that Preset Button # whatever was pressed, and then wait for instructions from the server. -- peterw http://www.tux.org/~peterw/ Free plugins: 'AllQuiet' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/AllQuiet.html) 'Auto Dim/AutoDisplay' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/AutoDisplay.html) 'BlankSaver' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/BlankSaver.html) 'ContextMenu' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/ContextMenu.html) 'DenonSerial' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/DenonSerial.html) 'FuzzyTime' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/FuzzyTime.html) 'KidsPlay' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/KidsPlay.html) 'KitchenTimer' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/KitchenTimer.html) 'PlayLog' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/PlayLog.html) 'PowerCenter/BottleRocket' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/PowerCenter.html) 'SaverSwitcher' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SaverSwitcher.html) 'SettingsManager' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SettingsManager.html) 'SleepFade' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SleepFade.html) 'StatusFirst' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/StatusFirst.html) 'SyncOptions' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SyncOptions.html) 'VolumeLock' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/VolumeLock.html) peterw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2107 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Thanks. I appreciate everything below this line: pippin;540295 Wrote: To begin with, let's answer your question (although for the 4th time) -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pfarrell;540190 Wrote: Daverz wrote:[color=blue] This is the touch forum. Its hard to see how you need to adjust the balance much if you are close enough to use the touch screen. I see your problem. You assume everyone else uses things the same way you do. My Touch is in my equipment rack, 3.3 meters away from my listening chair, where it's connected to my DAC. There is no balance control on my pre-amp, which is unfortunately typical for many high end pre-amps these days. A decade about, I would agree that not everyone could use a DAW. Even inexpensive ones cost $100 and good ones were close to a grand. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in spending any money on PC speakers, so I have a couple crappy speakers placed suboptimally (not even balanced) in the space available near my PC that are adequate for listening to Youtube and the like. This is worthless for getting the proper balance at the listening position in my living room system. Again, the problem here is that you expect people to do things the way you would do them and do without the things you don't need. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Daverz wrote: I see your problem. You assume everyone else uses things the same way you do. Nice Ad hominem attack. There is no balance control on my pre-amp, which is unfortunately typical for many high end pre-amps these days. Correct, balance and tone controls have fallen out of favor. Its a reality. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in spending any money on PC speakers, so I have a couple crappy speakers placed suboptimally (not even balanced) in the space available near my PC that are adequate for listening to Youtube and the like. This is worthless for getting the proper balance at the listening position in my living room system. So the fact that your preamp is missing a feature that you desire makes you want it in your source devices? Does your turntable or CD player have a balance knob? I agree that it would be a fine feature to add to the Touch sometime in the future. I just don't agree with you that its important today for 99% of the users. And I expect that the managers controlling the Engineers' priority will tend to agree. The Touch is a mass market music device. The company has to do things to keep the masses happy. I don't really care, when they do it is fine with me. But I am trying to set your expectations. I just don't see Logitech doing it anytime soon. Perhaps some third party developer will do it sooner. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
I'm working on a quick and dirty implementation of a balance control right now. Its just going to be available from a Touch menu, no webUI, no dedicated buttons on the IR remote, but you should be able to use the arrow keys on the remote to navigate the menus and virtually push the buttons. I don't have much time to work on it so it will probably be a few days before I can get it working. This will be a quick and dirty hack, so hopefully something can be done nicely in the future. After I have a test version out, a couple of you can try it and we can fine tune it. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
John, Perhaps you can leverage one of the IR shortcuts that can be programmed? e.g. Holding down the 4 or the 6 to move balance left or right? -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pfarrell;540327 Wrote: Nice Ad hominem attack. An Ad hominem attack would be to call you a hater or buzzkill. I would not consider the observation he made of your post an Ad hominem attack. Just sayin'. -- pounce pounce's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
pfarrell;540327 Wrote: Daverz wrote:[color=blue] So the fact that your preamp is missing a feature that you desire makes you want it in your source devices? This is an odd argument. Squeezeboxen are much more sophisticated and complicated than a typical dumb source device. Considering the complexity of the UI, a balance widget is pretty trivial. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Daverz wrote: This is an odd argument. Squeezeboxen are much more sophisticated and complicated than a typical dumb source device. Considering the complexity of the UI, a balance widget is pretty trivial. As I wrote in response to you earlier: I don't really care, when they do it is fine with me. But I am trying to set your expectations. I just don't see Logitech doing it anytime soon. Perhaps some third party developer will do it sooner. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Daverz;540355 Wrote: This is an odd argument. Squeezeboxen are much more sophisticated and complicated than a typical dumb source device. Considering the complexity of the UI, a balance widget is pretty trivial. That is what John S is cobbling together. Buth others argue for a more complete solution where the control if this is from the serverside. Which would give us: Control over balance from the web-UI ,just like the volume widget in web-UI but maybe as a slider in player settings. Possible Integration with any kind of remote control (or automation application ) The possibility to have the applet also installed on the controller or another Touch, but it control's the Touch you have chosen to control. Integration with mysqueezebox.com, making this setting avaliable from there and have it as a synced preference between server and mysb.com Pippin is naturally intrested in a serverside version as makes it possible for him to have it on iPeng. Now we can argue if balance is a setting you set once and forget or if it is an control you fiddle with from time to time. A setting could be local in fact many settings on Touch/Radio/Controller is local , no integration with the server or mysb.com . If we apply this to the fixed 100% volume setting we want. This could without troubling anybody be a local setting you set it once and then forgets it. The old SB3 has this as an server setting and it is mysb.com integrated, but that's probably because it's a slim player (no brain) and can not do much by itself. What I wonder here is. Is there any guideline or consensus for when a setting. 1. Should be local ? 2. Integrated with the squeezeboxserver ? 3. Integrated with squeezeboxserver and mysqueezebox.com ? 1 2 is possible for 3rd party devs to accomplish 3 needs logitechs cooperation. There would be nice if there where consensus on this as the UI could turn out to be quite weird with a lot of 3rd party addons. It seems that logitech wants to simplify the server/mysb.com a bit by having some rarely used settings local. And many of us liked the old SB3 when you could rearrange the whole menu structure from a server settings page. Just some thoughts. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe'Primare and Dynadio speakers (including a pair of Contour 4 ) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
News http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77837 Peter searched for way to lock Volume. But this proves that there are gainL and gainR variables in lua , so maybe no C compiling needed ? I wont know really I don't do code. Btw If you want to have balance but say goodbye to your volume control. You can use this hack but set different values in L R I suggest that one uses some of the discrete values found in the code. The volume maps are there. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe'Primare and Dynadio speakers (including a pair of Contour 4 ) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
JohnSwenson;539662 Wrote: Yep it certainly looks doable. All it needs is a UI now! The problem is the now playing screen is already pretty full of stuff, it would either have to be redesigned or an additional screen be added, OR it put somewhere else. Then there is the question do you want it in the webUI, and do you want it settable over the CLI interface so something like iPeng could adjust it. Isn't balance something that should be pretty static on a Touch ? For a Boom it's a lot different because that's a device you move around but I'm imagining that the Touch will typically be setup in a stationary position. Is there some obvious use case I've missed where a user would often want to change the balance ? If it's placed at a stationary position I suspect that a third party applet controlling balance could be accessed through the Settings menus. iPeng support gets a little bit more complex, but I'm not really sure iPeng support is important unless balance is something that's changed often. If we want iPeng support there also needs to be a plugin besides the applet/patch installed on the Touch. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
I imagine for 99% of users this would be a set forget setting... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
One use for a balance control is for those occasional recordings where the balance is off. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Daverz wrote: One use for a balance control is for those occasional recordings where the balance is off. And a more modern solution to this problem is to use an audio editor on the data file, and adjust it once. My main audiophile amp does not even have a balance control. I don't think I've used a balance control once in the past 20 years. When you were playing LPs or even CDs, you might need it. In the modern world, you can fix it once and be done. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Daverz;54 Wrote: One use for a balance control is for those occasional recordings where the balance is off. Move slightly left and right until the balance is not off. -- pski real stereo doesn't wake neighbors (it enrages them) . pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
Balance is something that theoretically can be done, but its probably not trivial. My guess is that it will take modifying the C code that is implementing the volume control so its not even something that can be implemented as a patch. On top of that you need a GUI for specifying it. It should also probably be something accessable through the web UI and CLI mode. Then of course things like iPeng should probably include it. A lot of work but could be done. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
no, probably because that's usually a function of the preamp or receiver, not the source. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] balance?
I don't see a reason that a whole host of digital effects could not be offered in the interface. The needed software (e.g. sox) is there. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
