RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
I think we would all do better to study our Bibles. Ps 131:1O LORD, my heart is not proud, nor my eyes haughty; Nor do I involve myself in great matters, Or in things too difficult for me. Its the one subject with which we can receive divine assistance in our understanding. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:26 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell I have. You should study Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell math equations can give you a range of answers or no answer at all. Ever hear of set theory? The range in Set A is correct, Set B, Set C etc. is INCORRECT There is a correct answer, any other is in error. You should study string theory. Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: x(cubed) + y(cubed) =z(cubed) can not be solved for any real number. Not a public school teacher but someone who went to college. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell 2+2= whatever you choose? You are not a Public school teacher are you? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In high school, we were taught there is only one answer to math equations and that there is a law of non-contradiction. Later we learn electrons and light are both particle and wave and that math equations can give you a range of answers or no answer at all. Kevin, as your sister, I feel compelled by the Spirit to tell you that you're an angry person and you enjoy being angry. This is dangerous. 'nuff said. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell You may like Coke I may like Pepsi BUT There is only ONE correct answer to a math equation There is only ONE correct formula in physics Reality is unrelenting. What is true for you is also true for me. It is a good thing you sell books not design bridges! Engineering mistakes cost dearly, so do Theological ones! Or are things different up there in Canuckastan? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that, Kevin, would be your INTERPRETATION of Scripture, would it not? Do we now have two 'infallibles' on TT? (I mean only with respect to this issue) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 08:09 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Hey we call all be right! Except for ONE thing that gets in the way REALITY Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is ONE understanding of the matter, albeit and, admittedly, the most widely held ONE. May I take a moment to pay you a compliment? Your demeanour has been, on the whole, most gracious in the last while. thanks, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 05:24 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMPLICATIONS IMPLICATIONS IFF He (Jesus) wasn't communicating what YOU think He was communication then, what will you do? I just found Elsman's response to BillW concerning hell written a year ago today which you may find interesting; he makes a good argument and I like his presentation . all from scripture - This is one of his finer moments :-) So WDYT? jt BILL, YES, LET'S ALL HEAD FOR THE CITY OF THE NEW JERUSALEM , ALL ON THIS FORUM. RESPECTFULLY, YOU HAVE A TOUGH SCRIPTURAL CASE TO PROVE THAT THERE IS A SECOND-CHANCE TO BE SAVED FROM SIN: A. AFTER WE DIE. B. AFTER THE DAY OF THE LORD, IF WE ARE ALIVE AT THAT TIME. C. CERTAINLY, AFTER THE NEW JERUSALEM COMETH DOWN WITH ITS RIVER OF LIFE. I ASK YOU TO RE-EXAMINE REV.21: 6-8, WHEREIN THE DIE IS CAST, I.E. THE SINNERS SHALL ...HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE, WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH. THUS, I DID NOT SEE THE LAKE OF FIRE DEALT WITH IN YOUR VERY CREATIVE ANALYSIS OF POETIC LICENSE, AS SOME WOULD SAY. SURELY, THE SINNERS WON'T BE LOUNGING AROUND OUTSIDE THE CITY WALLS OF THE NEW JERUSALEM, SOME SEEKING TO BE SAVED AT THE LAST SECOND BY LAPPING LIVING WATER OF THE RIVER OF LIFE. INDEED, IT IS VERY CLEAR FROM REV. 22:11 THAT : ...HE THAT IS UNJUST, LET HIM BE UNJUST STILL, AND HE
RE: [TruthTalk] brick testament
Not a problemo, Terry. We were in Paducah all week for the annual AQS quilt show and were having entirely too much trouble with our laptop to bother with looking at the site anyway. (Now I'm home and back with a vengeance--aren't you overjoyed? :-) ) Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Everett Heard; Darlaine/Cliff Reed; Bill/Donna Pace; Larry/Janice Farris Subject: [TruthTalk] brick testament A couple of days ago, I sent the web address for Brick Testament to some of you. I had perused a portion of it at the time and thought it was a novel way to present Bible stories to kids and grand kids. After going back for a further look, I find that some of the material is done in bad taste, even to the point of being pornographic, and I want to apologize for even offering such a site for your inspection. Please forgive me. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Fwd: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?]
DAVEH: No, KevinI don't. Wouldn't one expect supernatural events to happen to those who are close to the Lord, and the veil is thin? FWIWThose participating in Temple work do not seek a conjuration of spirits, nor do they meet the definition below you offered for necromancy. Let me ask you, Kevin.Do you have a problem with supernatural appearances in the Bible? And, do you know any Christians who ave experienced supernatural appearances? Kevin wrote: So you have no problem with supernatural appearances inside the temple? necromancy, n. conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events (Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition) Is the effort made for "influencing the course of events" as pertaining to the dead? Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: You must define it differently than the dictionary I use.. necromancy noun [U] the practice of claiming to communicate with the dead in order to discover what is going to happen in the future, or black magic (= magic used for bad purposes) ..How does the above definition relate to baptism for the dead? Kevin Deegan wrote: It is Necromancy that is bizzare -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [Fwd: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?]
DAVEH: I fail to see how your below definition of necromancy relates to what PP said, Kevin. necromancy noun [U] the practice of claiming to communicate with the dead in order to discover what is going to happen in the future, or black magic (= magic used for bad purposes) Kevin wrote: I think "hear from the dead" would qualify as communication! Thus it is Necromancy. Apostle Parley Pratt "An important point is gained, a victory won, and a countless host of opposing powers vanquished, on one of the leading fundamental truths of Mormonism. That the living may hear from the dead. A people should seek unto their God for the living to hear from the dead! "And again - the Lord has ordained that all the most holy things pertaining to the salvation of the dead, and all the most holy conversations and correspondence with God, angels, and spirits, shall be had only in the sanctuary of His holy Temple on the earth, when prepared for that purpose by His Saints. "Ye Latter-day Saints! Ye thousands of the hosts of Israel! Ye are assembled here today, and have laid these Corner Stones, for the express purpose that the living might hear from the dead, and that we may prepare a holy sanctuary, where the people may seek unto their God, for the living to hear from the dead" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 43ff). Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Ah..Thank you for your specific answer to my question, Kevin. I apologize for responding in a parallel post tonight requesting clarification on your answer. Soyou think Paul thought it to be bizarre behavior. Does it seem strange to you that he would use the bizarre practices of a (presumably) forbidden practice to teach a Christian principle? You mentioned that it is forbidden as practiced by the LDS...how/why do you conclude such? FWIWI don't know why you consider proxy baptism to be a communion with the dead. Kevin Deegan wrote: Bizzare and unlawful. It was practised by THOSE outside of the faith. It is forbidden as practised by the LDS The Bible is clear NO Communuion with the DEAD! To change a LDS quote, it should be: The living should NOT hear from the dead Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Kevin, do you think baptism for the dead struck Paul as bizarre? Kevin Deegan wrote: CMON Blaine screw your head on right. That is exactly what it is called Communication, "that the living should hear from the dead" Proxy baptism for dead folks, does not strike you as bizzarre? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
DAVEH: Hwhy did you not answer my questions, Kevin? Do you think those who practiced baptism for the dead in vs 29 believed themselves to be followers of Christ, Kevin? And...why do you think they were doing proxy baptisms, Kevin? Even the Encyclopedia of Mormonismadmits that only a few isolated sects have practiced it, including the heretical Marcionite sect in the second century, and the Ephrata Society, a occult group in Pennsylvania in the 1700s The claim that baptism for the dead was part ofPrimitive Christianity that was lost, lacks any historical or logical basis. Paul never taught Proxy Baptism anymore than he taught it was OK to eat meat offered to Idols 1 Corinthians 8:10 Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Then why do you think those early Christians who practiced proxy baptism were doing it, Kevin? Do you think they believed was simply a REPRESENTATION? Or do you suppose they thought it might have more significance than simply being a "LIKENESS". While baptism is certainly symbolic, do you think it may also represent a covenant? BTW..Do you think a man of faith can be saved IF he does not repent? Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith BAPTISM as a REPRESENTATION Baptism is a "LIKENESS" (Romans 6:5) a representation of something. While not directly called a sign, there are examples of representations throughout the scripture. Rom 6 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that LIKE as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection LIKENESS: 1. The state, quality, or fact of being like; resemblance. 2. An imitative appearance; a semblance. 3. A pictorial, graphic, or sculptured representation of something; an image. Baptism pictures the burial and the resurrection of Christ and our identification with His death, burial and resurrection. Abraham recieved the sign of circumcision a representation of being right with god through faith RM 4 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: Baptism is called a like FIGURE 1 Peter 3:21 The Lord's supper is a representation also. Surely no one but the RCC believes you eat his literal body blood! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
DAVEH: Where you going with this, Kevin? Are you suggesting Jesus borrowed the baptismal rite from pagans??? Or do you think the below mentioned pagans derived their baptismal beliefs from Primitive Christianity? Kevin wrote: DAVEH: What ppl, Judy? Do you know to whom Paul was referring? Paul used Pagan authorities to teach and contrast as in the Pagan poet he quoted on Mars Hill. Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a Pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mentioned by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79 Bible Knowledge Commentary on 1 Cor. 15:29. Dallas Seminary Faculty. http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/pr/pr04.htmTHE GREATER MYSTERIES AT ELEUSIS Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Blaine: The scripture that comes to mindis Isaiah 8:20 which (to paraphrase) says that doctrine can not conflict with what has already been revealed in the law and the prophets - baptizing for the dead certainly isn't part of that. Paul was referring (1Cor 15:29) to something ppl DAVEH: What ppl, Judy? Do you know to whom Paul was referring? were involved in - he was not teaching this or making new doctrine. As for revelation. My belief is that God reveals to us what has already been written and noone has as yet even begun to plumb the depths of that. jt -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
DAVEH: You are losing me on this one, Kevin. Vs 3 says.. ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. ...in the KJV. What version are you using to get once for all? Alsodo you think there was no further revelation from God after Jude wrote his epistle? BLAINE: It is ON-GOING REVELATION that Kevin does not believe in. His theme is, as always, that revelation ceased with the apostles' deaths. Can you or Kevin furnish me with any scripture that substantiates this false--VERY false--doctrine? Blaine, check out Jude 3. The faith was apparently delivered "once for all". -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
DAVEH: Hmm...After reading your below material, in a strict sense, aren't all baptisms (excepting that of Jesus) proxy baptisms in that are in a LIKENESS and REPRESENTATION of Jesus' birth, death/resurrection and baptism? BTW..Did you answer my below question... Then why do you think those early Christians who practiced proxy baptism were doing it, Kevin? Kevin wrote: When you give me ONE example of PROXY Baptism either in the Bible (not even 1 Co 15 says ANYTHING about a PROXY) or in the Book o Mormon. Then maybe we could discuss such as existing before 1834! Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Then why do you think those early Christians who practiced proxy baptism were doing it, Kevin? Do you think they believed was simply a REPRESENTATION? Or do you suppose they thought it might have more significance than simply being a "LIKENESS". While baptism is certainly symbolic, do you think it may also represent a covenant? BTW..Do you think a man of faith can be saved IF he does not repent? Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith BAPTISM as a REPRESENTATION Baptism is a "LIKENESS" (Romans 6:5) a representation of something. While not directly called a sign, there are examples of representations throughout the scripture. Rom 6 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that LIKE as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection LIKENESS: 1. The state, quality, or fact of being like; resemblance. 2. An imitative appearance; a semblance. 3. A pictorial, graphic, or sculptured representation of something; an image. Baptism pictures the burial and the resurrection of Christ and our identification with His death, burial and resurrection. Abraham recieved the sign of circumcision a representation of being right with god through faith RM 4 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: Baptism is called a like FIGURE 1 Peter 3:21 The Lord's supper is a representation also. Surely no one but the RCC believes you eat his literal body blood! SOME SUPPOSED PROOF TEXTS Acts 2:38 "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" The little Greek word eis is translated in the New Testament in the following ways and number of times: against 25, among 16, at 20, for 91, in 131, into 571, that 30, on 57, to 282, toward 32, unto 208, and upon 25. The catagories of meanings are Direction, Position, Relation, Cause, and Purpose. Restorationists interpret eis as for in Acts 2:38 to mean in order to, thus causing a person to be baptized in order to be saved or to receive remission of sins. The scriptures still teach that it is thru BELIEF that we are Justified, made righteous and saved. Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Lets take a look at some different usages in the English of the word "for" I called the doctor for some medicine (in order to) I called the doctor for my child (in behalf of) I called the doctor for my sickness (on account of) I called the doctor for the bill (with respect to) The context of the sentence and it's structure determine the correct reading. Matt. 12:41.The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. They repented in order to preaching, is non sensical. They repented not in order to Jonahs preaching, but because of the preaching of Jonah. We could repeat this test with other verses, the sentence determines the meaning. Dr. Carl E. Sadler: The Greek word eis about which all this contention is in Acts 2:38 is used with the word baptize or word baptism in three other passages: In Matt. 3:11, you have baptism eis repentance. Eis cannot mean in order to there, but because of repentance. Every Campbellite, Mormon, and others who teach baptism in order for remission of sin admits that repentance comes before baptism. In Romans 6:3, you find the _expression_ baptism eis the death
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] James 1:5-8 to Caroline, Kevin ????(formerly saved, salvation ... )
IFF false, then...? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:46 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] James 1:5-8 to Caroline, Kevin (formerly saved, salvation ... ) BLAINE: Kevin has access to a lot of stuff written by Mormon authorities. I proudly congratulate him on getting the items below correctly. But the problem is, IF God told Joseph what Joseph says he did, then that is the way it is, despite denials, rationalizations, arguments, put-downs, outright lies, etc to the contrary. What Joseph S. did by asking is actually a repeatable experiment. ALL MEN may ask and expect to receive an answer, according to the epistle of James. They will get one, IF (getting an answer IS conditional)they ask in faith with nothing wavering. (James 1:5-8) My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right - and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . . (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.) It was this directive that caused Smith to establish his church in 1830. It was this directive that caused God (if you believe The Book of Mormon is inspired) to reveal that there are only two churches - the church of the Devil and the church of the Lamb (1 Nephi 14:10). It was this directive that caused LDS Apostle Orson Pratt to teach that marriages outside of the LDS church were illegal and the children of those marriages are illegitimate. It was this directive that caused LDS Apostle Charles W. Penrose to state in his Rays of Living Light - Divine Authority that Christian creeds are valueless and that Christendom has no inspired apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers and hence no authority. It was this directive that caused the LDS church to produce a tract in 1982 titled Which Church Is Right? which states that other churches cannot save souls and that they have no divine authority. We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsenseMyself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858) Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know where the Mormon Boys have gone, they've been quiet - must be either busy or overwhelmed - so I can't check with them - but Kevin isn't this the same song and dance Joseph Smith came up with before he found the golden plates that he deciphered with the urim and thummin that later became the Book of Mormon. Everybody had bad theology and all the Churches were messed up so God had to enlighten him so he could start all over again and add a whole new book to the Word of God. jt On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:43:19 -0500 Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry Kevin, I often delete your messages without reading them thoroughly and that one must have zipped by. Because I know bad theology has dogged Christianity from the beginning, and that great theologians (not to mention pastors, elders and the ordinary joes on the pew) have errors in their theology, I would never claim that all I believe is right and true. I remember NT Wright saying 1/3 of what he teaches is probably wrong; the only problem is he didn't know which third. We all laughed when he said that because he is a very good theologian. I doubt his error rate is as high as one third but there is definitely error. If NT Wright has that humility about his great understanding and learning, can I do less? Augustine was reputed to have said, I was wrong on his deathbed. C.S. Lewis said the first thing he'll probably say when he gets to heaven is I was wrong. And I'm far lesser in understanding than these two men. I have great confidence in what I believe about the Person I believe in. But I keep an open mind. Now before you jump on your keyboard and type so open your brains fall out I'll add that 23 years immersed in the Word and scripture have left an indelible impression on my brains. Every time I hear something, I remember what I've read in the bible, and what other people have said on the same topic and I come to a reasoned conclusion. I'm sure you do the same. :-) Do you have humility in your theology? Love, Caroline -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6)
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes! Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. I am not ANGRY just hateful and that NOT without a cause! The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. PS 97 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Have I sinned in my words or just my attitude as you see it? ShouldI tone it down, be a nice modern effeminate christian? I guess you would have really been offended by some of those old timers. Even the Methodists. Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In high school, we were taught there is only one answer to math equations and that there is a law of non-contradiction. Later we learn electrons and light are both particle and wave and that math equations can give you a range of answers or no answer at all. Kevin, as your sister, I feel compelled by the Spirit to tell you that you're an angry person and you enjoy being angry. This is dangerous. 'nuff said. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell You may like Coke I may like Pepsi BUT There is only ONE correct answer to a math equation There is only ONE correct formula in physics Reality is unrelenting. What is true for you is also true for me. It is a good thing you sell books not design bridges! Engineering "mistakes" cost dearly, so do Theological ones! Or are things different up there in Canuckastan?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that, Kevin, would be your INTERPRETATION of Scripture, would it not? Do we now have two 'infallibles' on TT? (I mean only with respect to this issue) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 08:09 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Hey we call all be right! Except for ONE thing that gets in the way REALITYLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is ONE understanding of the matter, albeit and, admittedly, the most widely held ONE. May I take a moment to pay you a compliment? Your demeanour has been, on the whole, most gracious in the last while. thanks, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor
Re: [TruthTalk] James 1:5-8 to Caroline, Kevin ????(formerly saved, s alvation ... )
Of course that must be it I am faithless. You on the other hand are on Faith Steroids. What else could explain your belief in spite of the facts?"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BLAINE: Kevin, you said exactly what I anticipated you would say--you even bore your testimony, exactly as I predicted. I have heard it all before from other anti-Mormon activists. I can only say that many men ask, but not in faith. Faith is a gift of God to those who love him, and please him. I am not your judge, but from what you are telling me, I have to conclude you did not ask in faith. You asked with a foregone conclusion of what you would receive. The gifts of the spirit are rampant in the LDS Church, among its members. These gifts are available to all if they will. Charity is the greatest of the gifts of God. Why? Because with it, all truth comes into focus. Have charity for Joseph Smith and other Latter-day Saints, and you will find your entire outlook will change. I have charity for Joseph Smith and for others who lead and have led the LDS Church. I try to have charity for all, including you, otherwise I would not stay on TT. I believe there is good in all men . . . (and women) (:What Joseph S. did by asking is actually a repeatable experiment. ALL MEN may ask and expect to receive an answer, according to the epistle of James. They will get one, IF (getting an answer IS conditional)they ask in faith with nothing wavering. (James 1:5-8)I did ask in Faith with "real Intent" from a honest quest for the Truth. God answered me and showed me, but i got a different answwer than you. We can't both have a TRUE contradictory testimonies. . I bear you my testimony that Joe Smith was a False Prophet, that the LDS church is not the one true church and that it's real founder is that Devil the Angel of Light as the LDS own documents testify to that fact.Moroni 10:3-5 "Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." I do not need to pray about whether it is right to steal to give to the poor. God's word already tells me do not steal. The Book of Mormon fails the basic test of comparison with the Bible Is 8:20 Those that were more noble searched the scriptures daily to see if things were so. Act 17:11Beloved believe not every spirit but TRY themDon't pray about it. Test it! Compare it with the "Book-of-books." If you've been adrift on the sea of feelings, pushed this way and that by impressions and impulses that could easily be from the dark side, throw your anchor onto the Biblical bedrock. Don't put your faith in feelings but put your faith in the One who said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) DC 9:8 "But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right."I also studied it out and know with my mind that there is no such thing as Reformed Egyptian for example."[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:BLAINE: Kevin has access to a lot of stuff written by Mormon authorities. I proudly congratulate him on getting the items below correctly. But the problem is, IF God told Joseph what Joseph says he did, then that is the way it is, despite denials, rationalizations, arguments, put-downs, outright lies, etc to the contrary. What Joseph S. did by asking is actually a repeatable experiment. ALL MEN may ask and expect to receive an answer, according to the epistle of James. They will get one, IF (getting an answer IS conditional)they ask in faith with nothing wavering. (James 1:5-8)"My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, "History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.) It was this directive that caused Smith to establish his church in 1830.It was this directive that
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
"chrisrians? did not proxy baptise. Even Nephites did not.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Hwhy did you not answer my questions, Kevin? Do you think those who practiced baptism for the dead in vs 29 believed themselves to be followers of Christ, Kevin? And...why do you think they were doing proxy baptisms, Kevin? Even the Encyclopedia of Mormonismadmits that only a few isolated sects have practiced it, including the heretical Marcionite sect in the second century, and the Ephrata Society, a occult group in Pennsylvania in the 1700s The claim that baptism for the dead was part ofPrimitive Christianity that was lost, lacks any historical or logical basis. Paul never taught Proxy Baptism anymore than he taught it was OK to eat meat offered to Idols 1 Corinthians 8:10 Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Then why do you think those early Christians who practiced proxy baptism were doing it, Kevin? Do you think they believed was simply a REPRESENTATION? Or do you suppose they thought it might have more significance than simply being a "LIKENESS". While baptism is certainly symbolic, do you think it may also represent a covenant? BTW..Do you think a man of faith can be saved IF he does not repent?Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith BAPTISM as a REPRESENTATIONBaptism is a "LIKENESS" (Romans 6:5) a representation of something. While not directly called a sign, there are examples of representations throughout the scripture. Rom 6 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that LIKE as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection LIKENESS: 1. The state, quality, or fact of being like; resemblance. 2. An imitative appearance; a semblance. 3. A pictorial, graphic, or sculptured representation of something; an image. Baptism pictures the burial and the resurrection of Christ and our identification with His death, burial and resurrection. Abraham recieved the sign of circumcision a representation of being right with god through faithRM 4 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:Baptism is called a like FIGURE 1 Peter 3:21The Lord's supper is a representation also. Surely no one but the RCC believes you eat his literal body blood!-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
Not goimg anywhere. You asked who (read Pagans just north of then city where Paul issued the letter) practised such.Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Where you going with this, Kevin? Are you suggesting Jesus borrowed the baptismal rite from pagans??? Or do you think the below mentioned pagans derived their baptismal beliefs from Primitive Christianity?Kevin wrote: DAVEH: What ppl, Judy? Do you know to whom Paul was referring? Paul used Pagan authorities to teach and contrast as in the Pagan poet he quoted on Mars Hill. Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a Pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mentioned by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79 Bible Knowledge Commentary on 1 Cor. 15:29. Dallas Seminary Faculty. http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/pr/pr04.htmTHE GREATER MYSTERIES AT ELEUSIS Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Blaine: The scripture that comes to mindis Isaiah 8:20 which (to paraphrase) says that doctrine can not conflict with what has already been revealed in the law and the prophets - baptizing for the dead certainly isn't part of that. Paul was referring (1Cor 15:29) to something ppl DAVEH: What ppl, Judy? Do you know to whom Paul was referring? were involved in - he was not teaching this or making new doctrine. As for revelation. My belief is that God reveals to us what has already been written and noone has as yet even begun to plumb the depths of that. jt-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
I ask for one example you offer none. You are stuck in arut you go right back to "Then why do you think those early Christians" Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Hmm...After reading your below material, in a strict sense, aren't all baptisms (excepting that of Jesus) proxy baptisms in that are in a LIKENESS and REPRESENTATION of Jesus' birth, death/resurrection and baptism? BTW..Did you answer my below question...Then why do you think those early Christians who practiced proxy baptism were doing it, Kevin?Kevin wrote: When you give me ONE example of PROXY Baptism either in the Bible (not even 1 Co 15 says ANYTHING about a PROXY) or in the Book o Mormon. Then maybe we could discuss such as existing before 1834!Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: Then why do you think those early Christians who practiced proxy baptism were doing it, Kevin? Do you think they believed was simply a REPRESENTATION? Or do you suppose they thought it might have more significance than simply being a "LIKENESS". While baptism is certainly symbolic, do you think it may also represent a covenant? BTW..Do you think a man of faith can be saved IF he does not repent?Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith BAPTISM as a REPRESENTATIONBaptism is a "LIKENESS" (Romans 6:5) a representation of something. While not directly called a sign, there are examples of representations throughout the scripture. Rom 6 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that LIKE as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection LIKENESS: 1. The state, quality, or fact of being like; resemblance. 2. An imitative appearance; a semblance. 3. A pictorial, graphic, or sculptured representation of something; an image. Baptism pictures the burial and the resurrection of Christ and our identification with His death, burial and resurrection. Abraham recieved the sign of circumcision a representation of being right with god through faithRM 4 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:Baptism is called a like FIGURE 1 Peter 3:21The Lord's supper is a representation also. Surely no one but the RCC believes you eat his literal body blood! SOME SUPPOSED PROOF TEXTSActs 2:38 "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" The little Greek word eis is translated in the New Testament in the following ways and number of times: against 25, among 16, at 20, for 91, in 131, into 571, that 30, on 57, to 282, toward 32, unto 208, and upon 25.The catagories of meanings are Direction, Position, Relation, Cause, and Purpose. Restorationists interpret eis as for in Acts 2:38 to mean in order to, thus causing a person to be baptized in order to be saved or to receive remission of sins. The scriptures still teach that it is thru BELIEF that we are Justified, made righteous and saved. Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Lets take a look at some different usages in the English of the word "for"I called the doctor for some medicine (in order to)I called the doctor for my child (in behalf of)I called the doctor for my sickness (on account of)I called the doctor for the bill (with respect to) The context of the sentence and it's structure determine the correct reading. Matt. 12:41.The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. They repented in order to preaching, is non sensical. They repented not in order to Jonahs preaching, but because of the preaching of Jonah. We could repeat this test with other verses, the sentence determines the meaning. Dr. Carl E. Sadler: The Greek word eis about which all this contention is in Acts 2:38 is used with the word baptize or word baptism in three other passages: In Matt. 3:11, you have baptism eis repentance. Eis cannot mean in order to there, but because of repentance. Every Campbellite, Mormon, and others who teach baptism in order for remission of sin admits that repentance comes before baptism. In Romans 6:3, you find the _expression_ baptism eis the death
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Then that one must be an Illiterate FundieLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes! Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. I am not ANGRY just hateful and that NOT without a cause! The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. PS 97 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Have I sinned in my words or just my attitude as you see it? ShouldI tone it down, be a nice modern effeminate christian? I guess you would have really been offended by some of those old timers. Even the Methodists. Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In high school, we were taught there is only one answer to math equations and that there is a law of non-contradiction. Later we learn electrons and light are both particle and wave and that math equations can give you a range of answers or no answer at all. Kevin, as your sister, I feel compelled by the Spirit to tell you that you're an angry person and you enjoy being angry. This is dangerous. 'nuff said. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell You may like Coke I may like Pepsi BUT There is only ONE correct answer to a math equation There is only ONE correct formula in physics Reality is unrelenting. What is true for you is also true for me. It is a good thing you sell books not design bridges! Engineering "mistakes" cost dearly, so do Theological ones! Or are things different up there in Canuckastan?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that, Kevin, would be your INTERPRETATION of Scripture, would it not? Do we now have two 'infallibles' on TT? (I mean only with respect to this issue) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 08:09 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Hey we call all be right! Except for ONE thing that gets in the way REALITYLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is ONE understanding of the matter, albeit and, admittedly, the most widely held ONE. May I take a moment to pay you a compliment? Your demeanour has been, on the whole, most gracious in the last while. thanks, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 05:24 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]IMPLICATIONS IMPLICATIONS IFF He (Jesus) wasn't communicating what YOUthink He was communication then, what will you do? I just found Elsman's response to BillW concerning hell written a year ago today which you may find interesting; he makes a good argument and I like his presentation . all from scripture - This is one of his finer moments :-) So WDYT? jt BILL,YES, LET'S ALL HEAD FOR THE CITY OF THE NEW JERUSALEM , ALL ON THIS FORUM. RESPECTFULLY, YOU HAVE A TOUGH SCRIPTURAL CASE TO PROVE THAT THERE IS A SECOND-CHANCE TO BE SAVED FROM SIN: A. AFTER WE DIE.B. AFTER THE "DAY OF THE LORD", IF WE ARE ALIVE AT THAT TIME.C. CERTAINLY, AFTER THE "NEW JERUSALEM" COMETH DOWN WITH ITS RIVER OF LIFE. I ASK YOU TO RE-EXAMINE REV.21: 6-8, WHEREIN THE DIE IS CAST, I.E. THE SINNERS SHALL "...HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE, WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH." THUS, I DID NOT SEE THE
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Does the following 'sound' angry? There was an earlier post sent to you alone. Did you respond? Did you agree? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 04:37 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Then that one must be an Illiterate FundieLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes! Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. I am not ANGRY just hateful and that NOT without a cause! The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. PS 97 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Have I sinned in my words or just my attitude as you see it? ShouldI tone it down, be a nice modern effeminate christian? I guess you would have really been offended by some of those old timers. Even the Methodists. Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In high school, we were taught there is only one answer to math equations and that there is a law of non-contradiction. Later we learn electrons and light are both particle and wave and that math equations can give you a range of answers or no answer at all. Kevin, as your sister, I feel compelled by the Spirit to tell you that you're an angry person and you enjoy being angry. This is dangerous. 'nuff said. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell You may like Coke I may like Pepsi BUT There is only ONE correct answer to a math equation There is only ONE correct formula in physics Reality is unrelenting. What is true for you is also true for me. It is a good thing you sell books not design bridges! Engineering "mistakes" cost dearly, so do Theological ones! Or are things different up there in Canuckastan?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that, Kevin, would be your INTERPRETATION of Scripture, would it not? Do we now have two 'infallibles' on TT? (I mean only with respect to this issue) - Original Message -
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
DaveH wrote: Does it seem strange to you that he would use the bizarre practices of a (presumably) forbidden practice to teach a Christian principle? The resurrection is not just a Christian principle. It is a principle found in many religions. If I lived in ancient Egypt and was speaking to Egyptian Christians, I could very easily find myself appealing to them by saying, if the dead rise not, why are all these pyramids built? Why are the dead buried with all their most personal belongings? The point is to find some common agreement with their conscience and then go on to explain the truth in more detail, stripping away the superstition that surrounds them. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes! Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. I am not ANGRY just hateful and that NOT without a cause! The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. PS 97 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Have I sinned in my words or just my attitude as you see it? ShouldI tone it down, be a nice modern effeminate christian? I guess you would have really been offended by some of those old timers. Even the Methodists. Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In high school, we were taught there is only one answer to math equations and that there is a law of non-contradiction. Later we learn electrons and light are both particle and wave and that math equations can give you a range of answers or no answer at all. Kevin, as your sister, I feel compelled by the Spirit to tell you that you're an angry person and you enjoy being angry. This is dangerous. 'nuff said. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell You may like Coke I may like Pepsi BUT There is only ONE correct answer to a math equation There is only ONE correct formula in physics Reality is unrelenting. What is true for you is also true for me. It is a good thing you sell books not design bridges! Engineering "mistakes" cost dearly, so do Theological ones! Or are things different up there in Canuckastan?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And that, Kevin, would be your INTERPRETATION of Scripture, would it not? Do we now have two 'infallibles' on TT? (I mean only with respect to this issue) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To:
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Lance wrote: Sorry but, did you just accuse Caroline of Wong doctrine? LOL! Sometimes it is a real pleasure having you around, Lance. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
Dave, I think the post you responded to is mine, not Kevin's. Here is Jude 3 in it's entirety from the NASB: Jude 3: Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. The NASB gives a clearer rendition of hapax (clarifying, not reinterpreting) since hapax is an aorist passive, indicating that the action occurred once and will never occur again. I am not a greek scholar; this description comes from John MacArthur. Also, S. Zodhiates, in The Complete Word Study Dictionary - New Testament, describes the use of hapax in Jude 3, along with other verses, to mean once for all, that is, it can never occur again. He gives the example that Christ's sacrifice will never occur again. Jude is essentially describing the closure in the delivery of the faith...that it was complete and over as delivered to the saints. And Jude does not have to have been the last book written in order for this his statement to be correct. He is only announcing that the faith was delivered once for all...not that the saints to whom it was entrusted could no longer write about that faith. Going one verse futher, Jude describes the likes of Joseph Smith: Jude 4: For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead? Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 00:13:48 -0700 DAVEH: You are losing me on this one, Kevin. Vs 3 says.. y*e should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.* ...in the KJV. What version are you using to get *once for all*? Alsodo you think there was no further revelation from God after Jude wrote his epistle? BLAINE: It is ON-GOING REVELATION that Kevin does not believe in. His theme is, as always, that revelation ceased with the apostles' deaths. Can you or Kevin furnish me with any scripture that substantiates this false--VERY false--doctrine? Blaine, check out Jude 3. The faith was apparently delivered once for all. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Caroline, You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote: "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson -more appropriately evaluate his ownself - Poor soulwas raised in deception which apparently escalated in his own life. He must not havebelieved in Adam'sfall so was unawarethat the "divine soul" inspiring him was not from God. What good are all these beautiful words? If they are not communicatingGod's Truth they fall to the ground and are just stubble? As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness with anger... jt From Wikipedia online: Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister, later to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted from the doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed the philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature. The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to be the watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major cultural movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with our own hands; we will speak our own minds...A nation of men will for the first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson closed the essay by calling for a revolution in human consciousness to emerge from the new idealist philosophy: So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the affections, What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ... Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit. Emerson was noted as being a very abstract and difficult writer who never the less drew large crowds for his speeches. A common joke heard from his audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was beautiful. He was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man who could enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes! Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. I am not ANGRY just hateful and that NOT without a cause! The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. PS 97 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. I have
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Ahhh Jt but, they are communicating God's truth. All truth is God's. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 09:07 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Caroline, You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote: "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson -more appropriately evaluate his ownself - Poor soulwas raised in deception which apparently escalated in his own life. He must not havebelieved in Adam'sfall so was unawarethat the "divine soul" inspiring him was not from God. What good are all these beautiful words? If they are not communicatingGod's Truth they fall to the ground and are just stubble? As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness with anger... jt From Wikipedia online: Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister, later to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted from the doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed the philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature. The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to be the watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major cultural movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with our own hands; we will speak our own minds...A nation of men will for the first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson closed the essay by calling for a revolution in human consciousness to emerge from the new idealist philosophy: So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the affections, What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ... Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit. Emerson was noted as being a very abstract and difficult writer who never the less drew large crowds for his speeches. A common joke heard from his audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was beautiful. He was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man who could enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes! Correction is grievous unto him that
[TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
- Original Message - From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity The Church of 80% Sincerity was founded by David Roche because we get it right only about 80% of the time. As Roche explains, 80% is as good as it gets and we have to accept that. We understand 80% of the truth we encounter, believe about 80% of it, act according to our beliefs 80% of the time. I didn't think much of the church when I first read about it but lately, I'm starting to think that David Roche is both prophetic and profound which is evangelical parlance for 'he's right!' I've never liked John Calvin because of Calvinism and TULIP. My pastor once answered a question I had with an extended quote from John Calvin and I dismissed the whole explanation summarily because I did not like the man. My pastor was shocked because, to him, Calvin was a brilliant theologian and the answer he gave me was the best one he had. Now that I know about the Church of 80% Sincerity, I can appreciate Calvin. He was wrong about atonement being limited because Christ Jesus died for the sins of all people. But he was right about God's unconditional election and irresistible grace meeting us in our total depravity and about God preserving us against everything. Calvin should not have burnt all those people at the stake for disagreeing with him but I like him a whole lot better because of the grace I found in the Church of 80% Sincerity. Martin Luther was a great reformer who brought an end to certain church excesses and abuses. He also rediscovered the doctrine that salvation is by grace alone through faith. For a man who believed so much in grace, in unmerited favour, he should not have been so virulently anti-semitic. I'm convinced his attitude affected the Lutheran church and Germany. He would fit in perfectly at the Church of 80% Sincerity. Martin Luther King was also a great reformer, a hero of our times, but he cheated on his wife and plagiarized some people. He had a dream that he laboured into reality because he believed in the greatness of God, the rightness of love and that justice will prevail. I do not judge him by the colour of his skin or by the content of his character. He belongs in the Church of 80% Sincerity. So would Mahatma Gandhi, another reformer who followed the way of love and non-violence. He rejected Christianity and he drank urine but, at the Church of 80% Sincerity, no one would look at him funny. N.T. Wright is one of our best living theologian but at a series of lectures at Leicestershire (July 14-16, 2004), he said about a third of what he teaches is probably false; the only problem is that he didn't now which third. Now, if he had 80% truth in his theology and if he could only communicate that 80% of the time, that means we would receive 64% or approximately two-thirds truth when we listen to him. N.T. Wright must be a secret member of the Church of 80% Sincerity. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
If only my name was N.T. Wright who is also called St. Thomas and has his work referred to as the Gospel According to Thomas! :-) Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Lance wrote: Sorry but, did you just accuse Caroline of Wong doctrine? LOL! Sometimes it is a real pleasure having you around, Lance. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Truth without love is noise. The Apostle Paul - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Caroline, You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote: "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson -more appropriately evaluate his ownself - Poor soulwas raised in deception which apparently escalated in his own life. He must not havebelieved in Adam'sfall so was unawarethat the "divine soul" inspiring him was not from God. What good are all these beautiful words? If they are not communicatingGod's Truth they fall to the ground and are just stubble? As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness with anger... jt From Wikipedia online: Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister, later to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted from the doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed the philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature. The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to be the watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major cultural movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with our own hands; we will speak our own minds..A nation of men will for the first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson closed the essay by calling for a revolution in human consciousness to emerge from the new idealist philosophy: So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the affections, What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ... Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit. Emerson was noted as being a very abstract and difficult writer who never the less drew large crowds for his speeches. A common joke heard from his audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was beautiful. He was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man who could enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes! Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Well said. I shall take the matter 'under advisement'. May I post your blog for the 24th? L PS On TT do I sound like I'm shouting TO YOU? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 09:37 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always sweet like you. Too many sweets cause Diabetes! Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. I am not ANGRY just hateful and that NOT without a cause! The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. PS 97 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Have I sinned in my words or just my attitude as you see it? ShouldI tone it down, be a nice modern effeminate christian? I guess you would have really been offended by some of those old timers. Even the Methodists. Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In high school, we were taught there is only one answer to math equations and that there is a law of non-contradiction. Later we learn electrons and light are both particle and wave and that math equations can give you a range of answers or no answer at all. Kevin, as your sister, I feel compelled by the Spirit to tell you that you're an angry person and you enjoy being angry. This is dangerous. 'nuff said. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell You may like Coke I may like Pepsi BUT There is only ONE correct answer to a math equation There is only ONE correct formula in physics Reality is unrelenting. What is true for you is also true for me. It is a good thing you
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
DAVEH: Yes, I understand that many societies and religions believed in an afterlife. That's not the point that makes this discussion pertinentbut rather baptism. How many other non Christian religions practice baptism would be a more interesting question to consider. So how do you weigh in on this, DavidM? Do you think those practicing baptism for the dead (1Cor 15:29) believed they were followers of Christ? David Miller wrote: DaveH wrote: Does it seem strange to you that he would use the bizarre practices of a (presumably) forbidden practice to teach a Christian principle? The resurrection is not just a Christian principle. It is a principle found in many religions. If I lived in ancient Egypt and was speaking to Egyptian Christians, I could very easily find myself appealing to them by saying, "if the dead rise not, why are all these pyramids built? Why are the dead buried with all their most personal belongings?" The point is to find some common agreement with their conscience and then go on to explain the truth in more detail, stripping away the superstition that surrounds them. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Myth! Lance. It is possible for things to be true andnot God's Truth - there are two kinds of wisdom you know. Emerson was not walking in God's Truth. He was not a born again believer sealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit; if He were he would not have been teaching that "all men" are inspired by their divine soul which in actuality is fallen and unregenerate without Christ and without hope in this world. jt On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:14:17 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ahhh Jt but, they are communicating God's truth. All truth is God's. From: Judy Taylor Caroline, You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote: "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson -more appropriately evaluate his ownself - Poor soulwas raised in deception which apparently escalated in his own life. He must not havebelieved in Adam'sfall so was unawarethat the "divine soul" inspiring him was not from God. What good are all these beautiful words? If they are not communicatingGod's Truth they fall to the ground and are just stubble? As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness with anger... jt From Wikipedia online: Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister, later to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted from the doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed the philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature. The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to be the watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major cultural movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with our own hands; we will speak our own minds...A nation of men will for the first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson closed the essay by calling for a revolution in human consciousness to emerge from the new idealist philosophy: So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the affections, What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ... Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit. Emerson was noted as being a very abstract and difficult writer who never the less drew large crowds for his speeches. A common joke heard from his audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was beautiful. He was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man who could enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Love without truth is spiritual harlotry - God On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:25:48 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Truth without love is noise. The Apostle Paul From: Judy Taylor Caroline, You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote: "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson -more appropriately evaluate his ownself - Poor soulwas raised in deception which apparently escalated in his own life. He must not havebelieved in Adam'sfall so was unawarethat the "divine soul" inspiring him was not from God. What good are all these beautiful words? If they are not communicatingGod's Truth they fall to the ground and are just stubble? As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness with anger... jt From Wikipedia online: Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister, later to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted from the doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed the philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature. The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to be the watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major cultural movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with our own hands; we will speak our own minds..A nation of men will for the first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson closed the essay by calling for a revolution in human consciousness to emerge from the new idealist philosophy: So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the affections, What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ... Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit. Emerson was noted as being a very abstract and difficult writer who never the less drew large crowds for his speeches. A common joke heard from his audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was beautiful. He was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man who could enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just might be some OT precedent. Or was this added also? Why is it that the Religious" "LOVE" crowd is always so judgemental and have a word of knowledge at that. Since you got it from "the Spirit" it must be right. How foolish Amos 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly. I know that a modern 21st century Christian is always positive always
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
OK - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 10:23 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Myth! Lance. It is possible for things to be true andnot God's Truth - there are two kinds of wisdom you know. Emerson was not walking in God's Truth. He was not a born again believer sealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit; if He were he would not have been teaching that "all men" are inspired by their divine soul which in actuality is fallen and unregenerate without Christ and without hope in this world. jt On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:14:17 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ahhh Jt but, they are communicating God's truth. All truth is God's. From: Judy Taylor Caroline, You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote: "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson -more appropriately evaluate his ownself - Poor soulwas raised in deception which apparently escalated in his own life. He must not havebelieved in Adam'sfall so was unawarethat the "divine soul" inspiring him was not from God. What good are all these beautiful words? If they are not communicatingGod's Truth they fall to the ground and are just stubble? As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness with anger... jt From Wikipedia online: Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister, later to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted from the doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed the philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature. The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to be the watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major cultural movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with our own hands; we will speak our own minds...A nation of men will for the first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson closed the essay by calling for a revolution in human consciousness to emerge from the new idealist philosophy: So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the affections, What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ... Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit. Emerson was noted as being a very abstract and difficult writer who never the less drew large crowds for his speeches. A common joke heard from his audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was beautiful. He was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man who could enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
I've always believed you to be sincere, even when wrong. You do understand that every one of us is wrong about some things vis a vis our reading of Scripture don't you? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 11:22 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
So that's where Sincerity fills the gap? I don't think so. And why is it that you SO overemphasize our inability to grasp the meaning of scripture. That is not something to major on IMO. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:26 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 I've always believed you to be sincere, even when wrong. You do understand that every one of us is wrong about some things vis a vis our reading of Scripture don't you? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 11:22 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
IMO many unbelievers find the absolute certainty of evangelicals rather offputting. I'm now speaking of some of those areas where there exists some latitude. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 11:31 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 So that's where Sincerity fills the gap? I don't think so. And why is it that you SO overemphasize our inability to grasp the meaning of scripture. That is not something to major on IMO. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:26 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 I've always believed you to be sincere, even when wrong. You do understand that every one of us is wrong about some things vis a vis our reading of Scripture don't you? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 11:22 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
I've wondered about this also Izzy; and 100% sincerity won't count for much if one is 100% deceived as Eve was. Paul was concerned lest the Corinthians minds should be corrupted away from the simplicity that is in Christ (2 Cor 11:3) - and he didn't keep on about how one couldn't really know the truth - he dealt with the spiritual "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted ... ye might well bear with him" jt On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:31:31 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So that's where Sincerity fills the gap? I don't think so. And why is it that you SO overemphasize our inability to grasp the meaning of scripture. That is not something to major on IMO. Izzy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance Muir I've always believed you to be sincere, even when wrong. You do understand that every one of us is wrong about some things vis a vis our reading of Scripture don't you? From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 - Original Message - From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
Why major on that, Lance? Why not look on the positive side: we are also very confident in His Word. :-) Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:50 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 IMO many unbelievers find the absolute certainty of evangelicals rather offputting. I'm now speaking of some of those areas where there exists some latitude. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 11:31 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 So that's where Sincerity fills the gap? I don't think so. And why is it that you SO overemphasize our inability to grasp the meaning of scripture. That is not something to major on IMO. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:26 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 I've always believed you to be sincere, even when wrong. You do understand that every one of us is wrong about some things vis a vis our reading of Scripture don't you? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 25, 2005 11:22 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
Better to be sure of Gods faithful Word than sincerely wrongright? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:40 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 I've wondered about this also Izzy; and 100% sincerity won't count for much if one is 100% deceived as Eve was. Paul was concerned lest the Corinthians minds should be corrupted away from the simplicity that is in Christ (2 Cor 11:3) - and he didn't keep on about how one couldn't really know the truth - he dealt with the spiritual For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted ... ye might well bear with him jt On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:31:31 -0500 ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So that's where Sincerity fills the gap? I don't think so. And why is it that you SO overemphasize our inability to grasp the meaning of scripture. That is not something to major on IMO. Izzy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance Muir I've always believed you to be sincere, even when wrong. You do understand that every one of us is wrong about some things vis a vis our reading of Scripture don't you? From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] 100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
Lance Muir wrote: - Original Message - From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 25, 2005 08:36 Subject: Caroline's Blog April 24 April 24, 2005 the church of 80% sincerity The Church of 80% Sincerity was founded by David Roche because we get it right only about 80% of the time. As Roche explains, 80% is as good as it gets and we have to accept that. We understand 80% of the truth we encounter, believe about 80% of it, act according to our beliefs 80% of the time. I didn't think much of the church when I first read about it but lately, I'm starting to think that David Roche is both prophetic and profound which is evangelical parlance for 'he's right!' I've never liked John Calvin because of Calvinism and TULIP. My pastor once answered a question I had with an extended quote from John Calvin and I dismissed the whole explanation summarily because I did not like the man. My pastor was shocked because, to him, Calvin was a brilliant theologian and the answer he gave me was the best one he had. Now that I know about the Church of 80% Sincerity, I can appreciate Calvin. He was wrong about atonement being limited because Christ Jesus died for the sins of all people. But he was right about God's unconditional election and irresistible grace meeting us in our total depravity and about God preserving us against everything. Calvin should not have burnt all those people at the stake for disagreeing with him but I like him a whole lot better because of the grace I found in the Church of 80% Sincerity. Martin Luther was a great reformer who brought an end to certain church excesses and abuses. He also rediscovered the doctrine that salvation is by grace alone through faith. For a man who believed so much in grace, in unmerited favour, he should not have been so virulently anti-semitic. I'm convinced his attitude affected the Lutheran church and Germany. He would fit in perfectly at the Church of 80% Sincerity. Martin Luther King was also a great reformer, a hero of our times, but he cheated on his wife and plagiarized some people. He had a dream that he laboured into reality because he believed in the greatness of God, the rightness of love and that justice will prevail. I do not judge him by the colour of his skin or by the content of his character. He belongs in the Church of 80% Sincerity. So would Mahatma Gandhi, another reformer who followed the way of love and non-violence. He rejected Christianity and he drank urine but, at the Church of 80% Sincerity, no one would look at him funny. N.T. Wright is one of our best living theologian but at a series of lectures at Leicestershire (July 14-16, 2004), he said about a third of what he teaches is probably false; the only problem is that he didn't now which third. Now, if he had 80% truth in his theology and if he could only communicate that 80% of the time, that means we would receive 64% or approximately two-thirds truth when we listen to him. N.T. Wright must be a secret member of the Church of 80% Sincerity. = 72.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
John wrote: And, yet, David, you assult [sic] character on a regular basis. When have I assaulted someone's character? Surely you jest. I find that people feel insulted either when they incorrectly read between the lines, or they just don't like the point that I am making. John wrote: As far as expressing you character flaws --I have done that more than once. Hmmm. It must have been encrypted. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
John wrote: Nonsense, David. Absolute nonsense. You have never been invited to a non- instrument Church of Christ Yes I have. John wrote: and delivered members of that church from whatever -- if that is a part of your claim in the above. I make no such boasts. Christ is the one who delivers. I can put you in touch with ex-Church of Christ men who were in fellowship with the church of Christ when they met me and now are no longer with them. I don't understand your infatuation with this topic. John wrote: Names, David. Give me the name of any Church of Chrsit you prached [sic] in. not unless you pretended to be one of them. I never claimed to have preached in the pulpit of these churches of Christ, but some of these names I gave you have before they came out of them. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Lance wrote: A couple of things occur to me: Lance, you seem to be proceeding from the premise that I am perfect in knowledge. I am not. I don't believe anybody is perfect in knowledge. I do, however, believe that some are perfect in love. Please don't confuse the two. Lance wrote: I've been witness to someone (Bill Taylor) attempt to engage you on a significant matter. It was hopeless. Which significant matter was that? Are you sure you are not confusing me with somebody else? Bill doesn't like confrontation so I don't remember ever getting into any serious discussion with him. I've enjoyed reading his posts and the book recommendations he has given me. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Lance wrote: What, David, do you make of the reality that, ... each and every thoughtful, literate (that excludes me) participant on TT (Bill, John, Gary, Slade, Caroline, Debbie and, Jonathan) have identified recurring 'character deficiencies'. Are any of these correct? I have no doubt that I have character deficiencies because I'm still growing in the grace of the Lord. However, I have not found any of these people you mention to have specifically identified any character deficiency for me to work on. Most of the accusations are character assassinations or instructions which are contrary to the Word of God. For example, the Scriptures teach that when we speak, we should speak as the oracles of God. It teaches us to minister according to the proportion of our faith. Therefore, if someone is offended because I write with authority, that is not a valid character deficiency. What they are doing is projecting their own character deficiency upon me and hoping to derail me so that their failure won't appear so glaring. Someone else might be upset because I believe in ongoing revelation. Another person like Slade might turn me off because I say that my place in the body of Christ is as a prophet. Just that statement suggests to him a character flaw, but it is not a flaw to know who I am. Some turn me off because I believe in holiness and do not budge from what I know about it. Again, that is not a character flaw, but it appears that way to the person who has not found deliverance from his sins. I know some who think I have a character flaw because I support the war in Iraq or because I am against Paul Hill killing abortionists. There are all manner of issues that will cause others to view me with distrust and suspicion. They may comfort themselves with the idea that I have a despicable character, but if they cannot specifically identify what is wrong with my character, I am left with the words that Jesus gave his detractors, which of you convinces me of sin (John 8:46). Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Lance wrote: By 'Jewish people had various idease', do you mean as expressed in the Older Testament? I had in mind primarily the rabbinic writings and my general knowledge of Jewish history from various sources, which includes the Hebrew Scriptures too. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Lance wrote: Mt.12:36-37 DM asks 'do you believe this teaching'. Answer Yes Qualifier Not YOUR interpretation of it IFF your 'teaching' on this matter were to have been incorrect all along then, what would you do? I would change my understanding and teaching, of course. What is your interpretation of Mat. 12:36-37? How does it differ from mine? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Judy wrote: This is where I have a huge problem with your teaching DavidM; Jesus was born the ONLY begotten son of the Father thus He was holy from his inception in the womb of Mary - Agreed. He was holy, but yet he was born of the seed of Abraham, and therefore he shared in all the weakness of men during that time in history. His flesh was human flesh, and his genetics was not pure. He had genetic defects, moles and freckles and maybe a birth mark here or there. Biologically, he was a man. Judy wrote: During his ministry He walked on water, turned water into wine, fed the multitude, and so on. And he promised that those who believed in him would do these works and greater works than these. Judy wrote: Would you consider that in trying to make Him exactly like we are accepting an inverted form of the lie Satan approached AE with in the garden (see Genesis 3:5) Ye shall be as Gods? I don't try to make him anything. I believe the testimony of Scripture. The Bible teaches us that he was like us in every way, and he was tempted like us in every way. Judy wrote: He said Before Abraham was I am He may have looked like us but he was totally other beneath the skin and what He was by nature we must learn. Nobody can learn what he was by nature. We receive it by faith. The person who tries to learn the nature of Christ will never arrive at it. Only when we believe the report of the Lord do we receive it in a miraculous way. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Caroline wrote: Didn't Jesus say ... anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. Yes he did, Caroline. Compare that with the following passages: Matthew 23:17-19 (17) Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? (18) And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. (19) Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Luke 11:40 (40) Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? Luke 24:25 (25) Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: I would have thought this was right up your alley, something you had considered before. :-) The atheists like to raise this as a contradiction, but as you are perhaps aware, it is not. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hell
Caroline wrote: Judgment and punishment yes but neither is conclusive that humans are judged and punished eternally in light of what Gehenna means. Do you have other verses? Yes I do have other verses, but you are dismissing these Mark 9 passages too quickly. Keep in mind that all passages are open to interpretation, but there is a true interpretation and many false interpretations. Don't be looking for a passage that nails it down to some indisputable conclusion. When considering revelation, we weigh heavily on the side of those we trust (like Jesus, apostles, Scripture, etc.). Some Pharisees have written on the Isaiah passage and comment that it is a temporary thing. However, the comments of Jesus here indicate that Jesus considers it eternal. Read it carefully and see if you can understand how Jesus was interpreting the Isaiah 66 passage. Why does he emphasize, where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched. When I get some time, I will be glad to follow up later with some other passages and perhaps some more commentary on these. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
DAVEH: ButWere the translators 100% correct? ShieldsFamily wrote: 100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Caroline wrote: So, why was Job suffering? He was suffering because Satan was attacking him. Caroline wrote: Also, did you come up with your list of requirements to meet the standard of holiness or is it something that a group agrees on? I must have missed that question somewhere along the line. There is no list of requirements. Our standard of holiness is Jesus Christ. WWJD. :-) Caroline wrote: At one time, the Wesleyans felt wearing a tie was sin. Mennonites believe women should cover their hair at church. Amish men don't shave. If I were to join Wesleyan holiness, I would have to let my hair grow long without styling, not wear men clothing (i.e. pants), remove the bracelet my aunt gave me, only watch G movies and I think that's it. YOU MEAN THEY LET YOU WATCH MOVIES! LOL. The United Pentecostal Church would not let you get away with that. :-) Caroline wrote: The rest I'm doing already (which tickles me to no end because it is natural to my simple soul :-). Glad to hear that. Caroline wrote: Being single, I don't even have to wrestle with the birth control issue. What is there to wrestle about? Do you think there is something evil with the reproductive system that God created? Caroline wrote: But what if I decided what holiness mean from my understanding of the bible in my relationship with my Triune God? Would that count? Live like Jesus and you will do fine. It is not about lists. I'm sure there are things that I do not allow in my life that you allow in yours, but each one of us must become fully persuaded. I don't drink coffee and I don't wear jewelry, not even a watch or a wedding band. There have been training times when God has required me to go without any media whatsoever, no radio, no television, no newspapers, no internet, not anything for more than a year. So I know what that is all about in the legalistic camps. Most other times, I have had more liberty. The Lord desires for us not to look at lists, but to walk in love. That is all. If love would cause us to go without eating for days or weeks, so be it. If love would cause us to forsake sleep or to sleep on the ground, so be it. Holiness is following the Spirit despite the cries of the flesh and never being brought under the power of the flesh. If you have liberty to watch movies or liberty to forsake them, let every one do so to the glory of God. It really is that simple. Walk in love and if you live in the Spirit, then you should also walk in the Spirit. Learn what that means. Everyone who is walking in the Spirit is walking in love and does not sin. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Caroline: We (Lance, Debbie, John I) are not that far apart from you in our thinking and doing. You should post your vision or at least, post what the three sides of the triangle were as revealed to you by God. I'm glad you see that, Caroline. When I get a chance, I will get that posted. Maybe this week. I will let you know. I'm glad you are interested. What you might be surprised to learn, however, is that there are three ways to fall from that table of justification. They are 1) the way of Balaam, 2) the way of Cain, and 3) the way of Jezebel. I'll explain more later if you are interested. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
David Miller wrote: What you might be surprised to learn, however, is that there are three ways to fall from that table of justification. They are 1) the way of Balaam, 2) the way of Cain, and 3) the way of Jezebel. I'll explain more later if you are interested. Peace be with you. David Miller. Now you got me interested. Let 'er rip! Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
John wrote: You claim to know and understand the Restoration Movement. I know them about as well as I know Mormonism now. I'm not sure that is saying much. I learned most of Mormonism through books recommended by DaveH and Blaine and through dialogue with them here, but the Church of Christ stuff was almost entirely off the internet. I was involved with a home church once that actually merged with a church of Christ group. Too many experiences to elaborate here. I don't claim to be an expert. I was just trying to let you know that I was not shooting from the hip, but now you have blown this way out of proportion. John wrote: When challenged on your claim that you have actually spoken to individuals and churches of Christ, you give me the Boston Church of Christ and the names of some individuals associated with that church and the larger Crossroads movement Of all the congregations you could have named - you pick the single most exclusive group of people claiming to be a part of the larger movement --- a congregation which has rejected virtually all other congregations within the movement - a group who would not allow me to preach there, much less you. This is a church that has completely lost its way, a prime example of legalism gone wiild. This is exactly why I mentioned them by name, John. I wanted you to know that I have brushed shoulders with many in the extreme Church of Christ movement. However, you are changing the subject now. I never said that I preached in their churches. I said that I was invited to them, meaning, invited to come and learn from them and to hear what they had to say. I also have been invited to debate some Church of Christ ministers on campus and in home settings. Another time, I met for three months with two Church of Christ evangelists, meeting in the home of one of them. They wanted me to join with their congregation but I told them that might views about Spiritual gifts might make that difficult. John wrote: I had thought you were making a serious claim at having disposed of so much false teaching within this denomination that you could have been a modestly rich man at a nickle a pop. I must have misunderstood Yes, John. You misunderstood and are now changing the original statement. I said that if I had a nickle every time a Church of Christ person countered a passage in the Old Testament with, sorry, but that passage is in the Old Testament and we are under the New Testament now then I would be a wealthy man. This is obviously hyperbole, meant to say that there have been uncountable times that the Church of Christ fall back on this dispensational teaching concerning grace. They might be legalistic, but they are legalistic about being under grace and not under the law. I know, it is ironic, but from my perspective, you operate under this legalistic paradigm also, but you don't see it because you see yourself as under grace. It is noteworthy that Jesus never rebuked legalism or taught against it. He certainly had reason and opportunity to do so. Clearly, Jesus saw through the problems and could understand that it was not legalism that was the problem, but rather sin. This is exactly what I have been trying to teach you. The problem is sin, not legalism. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
Perry wrote: The NASB gives a clearer rendition of hapax (clarifying, not reinterpreting) since hapax is an aorist passive, indicating that the action occurred once and will never occur again. I am not a greek scholar; this description comes from John MacArthur. You really have to be careful here, Perry. There is no aorist tense in English, and I have often seen Greek scholars make blundering mistakes in trying to force it into past tense, and in this case, give an issue of finality to it. Surely you know that John MacArthur is heavily biased against revelation and the gifts of the Spirit. I don't have time right now to do some homework on this, but if you have an interest, I would be willing to spend some time to elaborate on this by showing you some other verses with this tense that cannot possibly be translated as they do here. However, in this case, the meaning of the word translated as once needs to be considered too, and that does have numerical meaning. Perry wrote: Jude is essentially describing the closure in the delivery of the faith...that it was complete and over as delivered to the saints. I don't see any closure to delivering faith. Faith continues to be delivered even today through godly ministers. Haven't you ever preached and seen faith arise in the hearts of people? He uses the word once because he is delineating this faith that he has in mind from the adulterated faith that was then being promulgated among them by ungodly men. He is urging them to contend for that faith that was originally delivered to the saints. This is a faith based upon holiness and righteousness, not one based upon prosperity and lasciviousness. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24
As Kevin says, not the translators of the Pervert Bibles. :-) Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:31 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Caroline's Blog April 24 DAVEH: ButWere the translators 100% correct? ShieldsFamily wrote: 100% Sincerity won't get anyone anywhere with God. The Bible is 100% right, and if we believe it and do it that's all we need. God is correct 100% of the time. Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Cool! I'm also looking forward to it, David. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:38 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard Caroline: We (Lance, Debbie, John I) are not that far apart from you in our thinking and doing. You should post your vision or at least, post what the three sides of the triangle were as revealed to you by God. I'm glad you see that, Caroline. When I get a chance, I will get that posted. Maybe this week. I will let you know. I'm glad you are interested. What you might be surprised to learn, however, is that there are three ways to fall from that table of justification. They are 1) the way of Balaam, 2) the way of Cain, and 3) the way of Jezebel. I'll explain more later if you are interested. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
DAVEH: Yes, I understand that many societies and religions believed in an afterlife. That's not the point that makes this discussion pertinentbut rather baptism. Back up, Dave. Read the context of the passage. The resurrection is EXACTLY the point that makes this discussion pertinent. He is pointing to baptism for the dead as an indication that even they have knowledge of the resurrection. It is just like if I were to point to the pyramids that are all around them, and argue that such indicates a belief in the resurrection. DaveH wrote: How many other non Christian religions practice baptism would be a more interesting question to consider. It is not more important than the context of the resurrection. You are straying from the text, isolating it, and discussing it away from the reason that Paul mentions it. DaveH wrote: So how do you weigh in on this, DavidM? Do you think those practicing baptism for the dead (1Cor 15:29) believed they were followers of Christ? We have discussed this before. I don't know for sure, but Kevin's point that he referred to they instead of we is critical for understanding that Paul was not justifying their actions. He was only justifying their belief in the resurrection, not the superstitions they practiced around that belief. It seems very likely to me that these baptizers of the dead were not followers of Christ or Paul probably would have diverged enough to rebuke it. On the other hand, if there was no concern that the Corinthians would think he condoned their practice, he could just mention it as supportive of a belief in the resurrection and move on. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Judy wrote: It is possible for things to be true and not God's Truth - there are two kinds of wisdom you know. I would like you to elaborate a little more on this concept, Judy. Is the concept of gravity God's truth or another kind of truth? If an atheist who is married thinks it would be good for him to love his wife, would this be God's truth or another kind of truth? I seem to remember a post way back there that I meant to reply to but did not have time. You said something about sin being a spirit being. I don't think I have ever heard that concept before. Can you elaborate on this too? Are there any passages of Scripture where you perceive sin as a spirit being? Is it only one spirit being, or are there many spirit beings called sin? I'm having trouble grasping exactly what you mean. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
That's a new one for me. What biblical reference is that? Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Love without truth is spiritual harlotry - God On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:25:48 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Truth without love is noise. The Apostle Paul From: Judy Taylor Caroline, You quote Emerson to evaluate Kevin? Emerson's quote: "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson -more appropriately evaluate his ownself - Poor soulwas raised in deception which apparently escalated in his own life. He must not havebelieved in Adam'sfall so was unawarethat the "divine soul" inspiring him was not from God. What good are all these beautiful words? If they are not communicatingGod's Truth they fall to the ground and are just stubble? As for Kevin - I think you mistake his zeal for righteousness with anger... jt From Wikipedia online: Emerson was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to a Unitarian minister, later to become a Unitarian minister himself. He gradually drifted from the doctrines of his peers, then formulated and first expressed the philosophy of Transcendentalism in his essay Nature. The publication of Emerson's 1836 essay Nature is usually taken to be the watershed moment at which Transcendentalism became a major cultural movement. Emerson wrote: "We will walk on our own feet; we will work with our own hands; we will speak our own minds..A nation of men will for the first time exist, because each believes himself inspired by the Divine Soul which also inspires all men." Emerson closed the essay by calling for a revolution in human consciousness to emerge from the new idealist philosophy: So shall we come to look at the world with new eyes. It shall answer the endless inquiry of the intellect, - What is truth? and of the affections, What is good? by yielding itself passive to the educated Will. ... Build, therefore, your own world. As fast as you conform your life to the pure idea in your mind, that will unfold its great proportions. A correspondent revolution in things will attend the influx of the spirit. Emerson was noted as being a very abstract and difficult writer who never the less drew large crowds for his speeches. A common joke heard from his audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was beautiful. He was considered one of the great orators of the time, a man who could enrapture crowds with his own enthusiasm On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:37:51 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the person does not feel he is angry but everyone else says it sure feels like it, then that person could a) continue as he is because what other people think does not matter or b) change communication style to reflect whom he really believes himself to be "What you are shouts so loud in my ears, I cannot hear what you say." Ralph Waldo Emerson Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell What if one is actually not angry but, one is so perceived by others? - Original Message - From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: April 24, 2005 18:18 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell James 1:19-20 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head WOW there just
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
David wrote: What is there to wrestle about? Do you think there is something evil with the reproductive system that God created? Caroline: not at all but some of my friends in various holiness churches/movements really wrestle with it. I had a pastor who said cynically, people always say 'as the Lord wills' until they get 3 kids in 3 years. I'm just glad it's a whole issue I don't have to contend with. Isn't there already enough stuff for the average couple to fight over? Well, some of my friends really hold to the wife in submission so they probably don't fight. David wrote Live like Jesus and you will do fine. It is not about lists. I'm sure there are things that I do not allow in my life that you allow in yours, but each one of us must become fully persuaded. I don't drink coffee and I don't wear jewelry, not even a watch or a wedding band. There have been training times when God has required me to go without any media whatsoever, no radio, no television, no newspapers, no internet, not anything for more than a year. So I know what that is all about in the legalistic camps. Most other times, I have had more liberty. The Lord desires for us not to look at lists, but to walk in love. That is all. If love would cause us to go without eating for days or weeks, so be it. If love would cause us to forsake sleep or to sleep on the ground, so be it. Holiness is following the Spirit despite the cries of the flesh and never being brought under the power of the flesh. If you have liberty to watch movies or liberty to forsake them, let every one do so to the glory of God. It really is that simple. Walk in love and if you live in the Spirit, then you should also walk in the Spirit. Learn what that means. Everyone who is walking in the Spirit is walking in love and does not sin. Caroline: I can almost visualize g writing 'myth' on this one :-) but I fully understand and agree with what you wrote there. As you can guess, I know quite a few who do as you do, who wrestle with what it means to be holy, to follow Jesus, to follow the voice of God. I've liked every one of them and have even sojourned with them for a while. When I wrote a long time ago that obedience was complicated, I spoke from that experience. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Hi David; I am interested. I have read Francis Frangipane's The Three Battlegrounds and other similar authors and I used to go to a prayer group where many were prophetic and could discern spirits. I don't think much would surprise me in the realm of spiritual warfare but I'm always interested in learning anything new or hearing other people's experiences. BTW, as you probably know, that's one of the benefits of being holy - it protects the person and makes him more effective in intercession and warfare. I look forward to your post, whenever you have time. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard Caroline: We (Lance, Debbie, John I) are not that far apart from you in our thinking and doing. You should post your vision or at least, post what the three sides of the triangle were as revealed to you by God. I'm glad you see that, Caroline. When I get a chance, I will get that posted. Maybe this week. I will let you know. I'm glad you are interested. What you might be surprised to learn, however, is that there are three ways to fall from that table of justification. They are 1) the way of Balaam, 2) the way of Cain, and 3) the way of Jezebel. I'll explain more later if you are interested. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God
Good passage. Do you think there is a case for annihilation/conditionalism in the phrase everlasting destruction in verse 9? John Stott and several other theologians think there is. Have you ever received a vision of heaven or of hell and have you asked the Lord for it? I know someone who had a vision of heaven but I don't know any personally who had visions of hell. Lance posted something from Choo Thomas and I know a passage from Julian of Norwich where she asked the Lord to show her hell. I read parts of 1 Enoch but that is not fully accepted as inspired by the Jews. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment Begins at the House of God Caroline wrote: They added the words without cause because they could not let go of their own anger and they need a punitive God. What makes you think the words were added? The majority of texts have the phrase. Caroline wrote: Even though people made Jesus frustrated to the point of tears, he is not punitive. Don't you think Jesus is punitive in the following passage? 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 (6) Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; (7) And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, (8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: (9) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (10) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Surely you don't think all these words were added too, do you? Caroline wrote: He drove the money changers out of the temple and he rebuked people for not showing mercy and justice. It was not sinners that made him angry - it was lack of mercy, compassion and justice. Excuse me, but those who lack mercy, compassion, and justice are sinners. The religious establishment, the scribes and Pharisees, which were the Barth's, Torrance's, and Wright's of Christ's day, these were indeed sinners, and they made Jesus angry. Do you see it differently? Caroline wrote: He ate with sinners and gluttons and was incredibly gracious and merciful to them all. Yes, he was gracious to sinners who received his rebukes and corrections, who received his message that they needed to repent because the Kingdom of God was at hand. Jesus gave the call to holiness, and those sinners who smote their breasts and repented received grace, but those religiously trained men, the educated ones in the establishment, these were the sinners who made Christ angry and did not receive his grace and mercy. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
David wrote to Judy: I seem to remember a post way back there that I meant to reply to but did not have time. You said something about sin being a spirit being. I don't think I have ever heard that concept before. Can you elaborate on this too? Are there any passages of Scripture where you perceive sin as a spirit being? Is it only one spirit being, or are there many spirit beings called sin? I'm having trouble grasping exactly what you mean. Caroline: There is one metaphor in Genesis when God warned Cain that if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it. Gen 4:7 There is another metaphor in Romans when Paul wrote: ..sin sprang to life and I died...For sin seizing the opportunity, deceived me and... put me to death. Rom 7 It almost seems as if sin has a life and a will of it's own. I guess it's the difference between cleaning cat fur off the furniture and washing the cat itself. In one situation, you have to keep your wits about you. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
Caroline, just try bathing a cat anytime you want to experience hell. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:51 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell David wrote to Judy: I seem to remember a post way back there that I meant to reply to but did not have time. You said something about sin being a spirit being. I don't think I have ever heard that concept before. Can you elaborate on this too? Are there any passages of Scripture where you perceive sin as a spirit being? Is it only one spirit being, or are there many spirit beings called sin? I'm having trouble grasping exactly what you mean. Caroline: There is one metaphor in Genesis when God warned Cain that if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it. Gen 4:7 There is another metaphor in Romans when Paul wrote: ..sin sprang to life and I died...For sin seizing the opportunity, deceived me and... put me to death. Rom 7 It almost seems as if sin has a life and a will of it's own. I guess it's the difference between cleaning cat fur off the furniture and washing the cat itself. In one situation, you have to keep your wits about you. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell
I did once. The cat won. I have the scar to prove it. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell Caroline, just try bathing a cat anytime you want to experience hell. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:51 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Hell David wrote to Judy: I seem to remember a post way back there that I meant to reply to but did not have time. You said something about sin being a spirit being. I don't think I have ever heard that concept before. Can you elaborate on this too? Are there any passages of Scripture where you perceive sin as a spirit being? Is it only one spirit being, or are there many spirit beings called sin? I'm having trouble grasping exactly what you mean. Caroline: There is one metaphor in Genesis when God warned Cain that if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it. Gen 4:7 There is another metaphor in Romans when Paul wrote: ..sin sprang to life and I died...For sin seizing the opportunity, deceived me and... put me to death. Rom 7 It almost seems as if sin has a life and a will of it's own. I guess it's the difference between cleaning cat fur off the furniture and washing the cat itself. In one situation, you have to keep your wits about you. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
