[TruthTalk] Truth and Freedom (some food for thought)
Truth and freedom go hand in hand, but truth will produce freedom only as it is walked in. This ought to be self-evident. We can know something is true, but if we fail to walk in it, what good is it? Its value to us is worthless unless it is walked in. Freedom and truth come to those who press on. Freedom, the kind of freedom that God is involved in bringing us into, comes progressively, not all at once. These are lessons from the Days of Unleavened Bread. It took the Israelites seven days to get to and across the Red Sea. It took them another forty years to get into their own land, into their inheritance, the Promised Land. Their freedom was progressive. There was a time when it began, but if they had never continued on the way, they would never have had their own land, never have had their inheritance, never have been free. This is a large part of the object lesson: We have to continue. If we continue, then we will truly be a disciple. We will understand the truth, and the truth will make usfree. The truth of God shows us the real values of life because it shows us what we are to give our life to.
RE: [TruthTalk] Truth and Freedom (some food for thought)
Keep on keeping on, Jude! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:33 AM To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Truth and Freedom (some food for thought) Truth and freedom go hand in hand, but truth will produce freedom only as it is walked in. This ought to be self-evident. We can know something is true, but if we fail to walk in it, what good is it? Its value to us is worthless unless it is walked in. Freedom and truth come to those who press on. Freedom, the kind of freedom that God is involved in bringing us into, comes progressively, not all at once. These are lessons from the Days of Unleavened Bread. It took the Israelites seven days to get to and across the Red Sea. It took them another forty years to get into their own land, into their inheritance, the Promised Land. Their freedom was progressive. There was a time when it began, but if they had never continued on the way, they would never have had their own land, never have had their inheritance, never have been free. This is a large part of the object lesson: We have to continue. If we continue, then we will truly be a disciple. We will understand the truth, and the truth will make usfree. The truth of God shows us the real values of life because it shows us what we are to give our life to.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth and Freedom (some food for thought)
Good post -- as far as it goes. What you leave out is this: they never fully arrived !!! God remained patient. Kinda like it is right now. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Truth and freedom go hand in hand, but truth will produce freedom only as it is walked in. This ought to be self-evident. We can know something is true, but if we fail to walk in it, what good is it? Its value to us is worthless unless it is walked in. Freedom and truth come to those who press on. Freedom, the kind of freedom that God is involved in bringing us into, comes progressively, not all at once. These are lessons from the Days of Unleavened Bread. It took the Israelites seven days to get to and across the Red Sea. It took them another forty years to get into their own land, into their inheritance, the Promised Land. Their freedom was progressive. There was a time when it began, but if they had never continued on the way, they would never have had their own land, never have had their inheritance, never have been free. This is a large part of the object lesson: We have to continue. If we continue, then we will truly be a disciple. We will understand the truth, and the truth will make usfree. The truth of God shows us the real values of life because it shows us what we are to give our life to.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth and Freedom (some food for thought)
Of course they did - the two that made it that is (Joshua and Caleb) since they didn't return with an (evil) carnal report along withall of the following generation who beganwith a fresh copy book. On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:39:33 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Good post -- as far as it goes. What you leave out is this: they never fully arrived !!! God remained patient. Kinda like it is right now. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Truth and freedom go hand in hand, but truth will produce freedom only as it is walked in. This ought to be self-evident. We can know something is true, but if we fail to walk in it, what good is it? Its value to us is worthless unless it is walked in. Freedom and truth come to those who press on. Freedom, the kind of freedom that God is involved in bringing us into, comes progressively, not all at once. These are lessons from the Days of Unleavened Bread. It took the Israelites seven days to get to and across the Red Sea. It took them another forty years to get into their own land, into their inheritance, the Promised Land. Their freedom was progressive. There was a time when it began, but if they had never continued on the way, they would never have had their own land, never have had their inheritance, never have been free. This is a large part of the object lesson: We have to continue. If we continue, then we will truly be a disciple. We will understand the truth, and the truth will make usfree. The truth of God shows us the real values of life because it shows us what we are to give our life to.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Is that the one owned by Dolly Parton? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Truth Wont buy him a ticket to Gloryland. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:39 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gary is the one artist on TT. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 06:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are "original thoughts" Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called "original thoughts" may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 15:40 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
"No evidence sugges that I am not' = there is evidence to suggest that I am - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 23:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting so I include Vs.13 - why are you elevating darkness which in context is comparitive only? This is similar to fighting to stay sick On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:44:02 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: sure you did--its common practice for you as in this case w/ 1 Cor 13:12-- evidence suggests its meaning never has registered w/ you On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:10:47 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt has not trimmed one jot or tittle from the holy writ
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are "original thoughts" Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called "original thoughts" may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Gary is the one artist on TT. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 06:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are "original thoughts" Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called "original thoughts" may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
"(my) judgment of people'? No, it is not. All I have access to is your writing. Is that sufficient to know you well? No. Is it sufficient to get a sense of you? Yup! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 06:40 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Yes, well are you saying that Godneeds some of them to exalt themselves in His Name with their so called "original thoughts" So where in scripture are all the artists among God's Covenant people Israel? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:16 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gary is the one artist on TT. From: Judy Taylor I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are "original thoughts" Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called "original thoughts" may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Then where do all the opinions and appraisals from your email address originate? You are critical of DM and defer to DZ On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:45:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "(my) judgment of people'? No, it is not. All I have access to is your writing. Is that sufficient to know you well? No. Is it sufficient to get a sense of you? Yup! From: Judy Taylor I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
DM Judy, during this time of his 'absence' from TT, is pretty much free of mention. You, Dean and Kevin write and, I read you. Thus, an answer to 'where'. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 06:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Then where do all the opinions and appraisals from your email address originate? You are critical of DM and defer to DZ On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:45:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "(my) judgment of people'? No, it is not. All I have access to is your writing. Is that sufficient to know you well? No. Is it sufficient to get a sense of you? Yup! From: Judy Taylor I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Artists abound in Scripture. Did you lose your 'strong's'? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 06:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Yes, well are you saying that Godneeds some of them to exalt themselves in His Name with their so called "original thoughts" So where in scripture are all the artists among God's Covenant people Israel? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:16 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gary is the one artist on TT. From: Judy Taylor I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are "original thoughts" Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called "original thoughts" may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
And not a peep about those murdurous muslims They get a pass/indulgence from pope Lance to kill and maimJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are fromOn Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Neither are a plethora of other words! andFrom: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ?(may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time)On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
The 'murderous muslims' shall give account for their 'murderousness'. Your president/nation IS giving account for the (mis)judgment as to middle east policy making. Are any of you sorrowful over the deaths of innocentIraqis and, Afghanis? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:09 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth And not a peep about those murdurous muslims They get a pass/indulgence from pope Lance to kill and maimJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
You mean you don't own your opinions Lance? Are you saying we are responsible for them? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:00:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DM Judy, during this time of his 'absence' from TT, is pretty much free of mention. You, Dean and Kevin write and, I read you. Thus, an answer to 'where'. From: Judy Taylor Then where do all the opinions and appraisals from your email address originate? You are critical of DM and defer to DZ On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:45:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "(my) judgment of people'? No, it is not. All I have access to is your writing. Is that sufficient to know you well? No. Is it sufficient to get a sense of you? Yup! From: Judy Taylor I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Have you ever apologized and repented in sack cloth and ashes for the devastation caused by your innocent proteges in New York on 9-11-2003 and in Israel for the past 40yrs?? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:21:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The 'murderous muslims' shall give account for their 'murderousness'. Your president/nation IS giving account for the (mis)judgment as to middle east policy making. Are any of you sorrowful over the deaths of innocentI raqis and, Afghanis? From: Kevin Deegan And not a peep about those murdurous muslims They get a pass/indulgence from pope Lance to kill and maimJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
I do. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth You mean you don't own your opinions Lance? Are you saying we are responsible for them? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:00:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DM Judy, during this time of his 'absence' from TT, is pretty much free of mention. You, Dean and Kevin write and, I read you. Thus, an answer to 'where'. From: Judy Taylor Then where do all the opinions and appraisals from your email address originate? You are critical of DM and defer to DZ On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:45:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "(my) judgment of people'? No, it is not. All I have access to is your writing. Is that sufficient to know you well? No. Is it sufficient to get a sense of you? Yup! From: Judy Taylor I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
You first as Judy is wont to say. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Have you ever apologized and repented in sack cloth and ashes for the devastation caused by your innocent proteges in New York on 9-11-2003 and in Israel for the past 40yrs?? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:21:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The 'murderous muslims' shall give account for their 'murderousness'. Your president/nation IS giving account for the (mis)judgment as to middle east policy making. Are any of you sorrowful over the deaths of innocentI raqis and, Afghanis? From: Kevin Deegan And not a peep about those murdurous muslims They get a pass/indulgence from pope Lance to kill and maimJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
No my Strongs is right here; I see God gifting certain ones for the building of the Tabernacle in the wilderness and I see Levitical musicians - both for the purpose of worship. I am asking about the Bob Dylans, Gary Olsens, Mozarts, Van Goughs etc. Where is the worldly heritage of culture and arts found in Israel? Can you show me chapter and verse please? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:04:45 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Artists abound in Scripture. Did you lose your 'strong's'? From: Judy Taylor Yes, well are you saying that Godneeds some of them to exalt themselves in His Name with their so called "original thoughts" So where in scripture are all the artists among God's Covenant people Israel? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:16 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gary is the one artist on TT. From: Judy Taylor I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are "original thoughts" Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called "original thoughts" may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
And as Lance is wont to say - I refuse and demand that you take the lead and send us photos and a case study On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:29:29 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You first as Judy is wont to say. From: Judy Taylor Have you ever apologized and repented in sack cloth and ashes for the devastation caused by your innocent proteges in New York on 9-11-2003 and in Israel for the past 40yrs?? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:21:11 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The 'murderous muslims' shall give account for their 'murderousness'. Your president/nation IS giving account for the (mis)judgment as to middle east policy making. Are any of you sorrowful over the deaths of innocentI raqis and, Afghanis? From: Kevin Deegan And not a peep about those murdurous muslims They get a pass/indulgence from pope Lance to kill and maimJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
It is a RED LETTER day lance makes a stand!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 'murderous muslims' shall give account for their 'murderousness'. Your president/nation IS giving account for the (mis)judgment as to middle east policy making. Are any of you sorrowful over the deaths of innocentIraqis and, Afghanis?- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:09 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TruthAnd not a peep about those murdurous muslims They get a pass/indulgence from pope Lance to kill and maimJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are fromOn Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Neither are a plethora of other words! andFrom: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ?(may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time)On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
No Oscar I suppose but, thanks anyway. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:38 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth It is a RED LETTER day lance makes a stand!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 'murderous muslims' shall give account for their 'murderousness'. Your president/nation IS giving account for the (mis)judgment as to middle east policy making. Are any of you sorrowful over the deaths of innocentIraqis and, Afghanis? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:09 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth And not a peep about those murdurous muslims They get a pass/indulgence from pope Lance to kill and maimJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm kind of fascinated at how "person" oriented you are Lance - it's all about your judgment of people isn't it? Some you show more deference than others and DM is at the top of the list. Suchobvious love/hate going on toward him from the frozen north and - as to disapproval only GWB has him beat. On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:12:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is the 'big one' 'Lizabeth! I 'bin, ATJudy, 'gottcha'd' by Kevin.What da y'all wants ta bet that DM is quiet just now 'cause he's savin' all this for some learned debating society?Kevin, Judy and, Dean are simply at their respective best(s). From: Judy Taylor He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
myth (someppl'pour new wine into..into new wineskins', wisely, acc toJC thepoet) On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:21:49 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is nothing new under the sun.. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
RE: [TruthTalk] Truth
There is no such thing as an original thought. (I thought that up myself!) Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:22 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are original thoughts Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called original thoughts may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
RE: [TruthTalk] Truth
Wont buy him a ticket to Gloryland. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:39 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gary is the one artist on TT. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 06:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are original thoughts Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called original thoughts may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
RE: [TruthTalk] Truth
They built the temple and the items in it. They were anointed by God to create works of beauty for His glory. Thats the difference between godly and worldly artists. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:46 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Yes, well are you saying that Godneeds some of them to exalt themselves in His Name with their so called original thoughts So where in scripture are all the artists among God's Covenant people Israel? On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:16 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gary is the one artist on TT. From: Judy Taylor I thank the Lord for that if what you have been proferring are original thoughts Remember GO - There is nothing new under the sun, it has all been thought, said, and done before. Your so called original thoughts may not be as original as you think. On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:33:27 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Gary jt has not trimmed one jot or tittle from the holy writ 1 Cor 13:12 is of course, comparitively speaking, in light of the "Risen Christ". However, I also believe 1 Cor 13:13 "And NOW abideth faith - faith in what? Your incoherrent musings, Dylans, those of John Lennon?Lance's opinions? Lord forbid! "HE is the Rock His work is perfect for ALL His ways are JUDGMENT A God of Truth and without iniquity - just and right is He." On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:46:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
may i respectfully disagree ... depends on what hair is being split; I find continual social commentary about how bad things are, how evil mankind is, and how dangerous GBW is to the rest of the worldcounter productive and worse than a waste of time about on parwith agonizing over doctrines of men and so called orthodoxy or traditions of men. whereas, studying to show oneself approved as a workman who rightly divides the Word of Truth is a venture that is blessed of God and will reapeternal benefits ... On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:46:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Hereafter WOT shall be employed by me. Thanks, Gary!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 10:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ?(may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time)On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Neither are a plethora of other words! and - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 14:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
Well we can't talk about it then toss it over there, on the pile with RAPTURELance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neither are a plethora of other words! and- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 14:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ?(may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time)On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are from On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither are a plethora of other words! and From: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
DU 30 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil Choose you this day whom you will serve! And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He gottcha Lance - of course "discerning between good and evil is in the Bible and Kevin knows this.. as for your plethora of words... No telling where they are fromOn Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:31:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Neither are a plethora of other words! andFrom: Kevin Deegan Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ?(may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time)On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
cd: Thank you for this Judy-Praise the God of Abraham , Isaac ,and Jacob.Thank you Jesus Christ for I see this things you have withheld from the whole world-and do not deserve it. "HE is the Rock His work is perfect for ALL His ways are JUDGMENT A God of Truth and without iniquity - just and right is He." - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/6/2006 11:13:37 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gary jt has not trimmed one jot or tittle from the holy writ 1 Cor 13:12 is of course, comparitively speaking, in light of the "Risen Christ". However, I also believe 1 Cor 13:13 "And NOW abideth faith - faith in what? Your incoherrent musings, Dylans, those of John Lennon?Lance's opinions? Lord forbid! "HE is the Rock His work is perfect for ALL His ways are JUDGMENT A God of Truth and without iniquity - just and right is He." On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:46:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: is there any reason nowto dispute that discernment is based on partial knowledge (e.g., relative to our acceptance of1Cor13:12 which jt musta trimmed from her holy aussie writ and lit) ? (may i comment, respectfully, as DaveH would say, that 99% of the time, most 'hair-splitting'is counter-productive, as in worse than a waste of time) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But Jesus? YES! (Note that I did not say if I know truth about Jesus, but that I can discern truth about Jesus
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
sure you did--its common practice for you as in this case w/ 1 Cor 13:12--evidence suggests its meaning never has registered w/ you On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:10:47 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt has not trimmed one jot or tittle from the holy writ
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
myth (in context--placating polemicistsposingpurely private musings from polarizing postulatesparroting platitudes frompoints down under) On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:17:59 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: depends on what hair is being split
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
why continue railingso harshly against an inquisitive younglady her interest/s in JC theology? || - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 14:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Let me point out that the word DISCERNMENT is not in the Bible! || On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..I can discern truth about Jesus Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting so I include Vs.13 - why are you elevating darkness which in context is comparitive only? This is similar to fighting to stay sick On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:44:02 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: sure you did--its common practice for you as in this case w/ 1 Cor 13:12-- evidence suggests its meaning never has registered w/ you On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:10:47 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt has not trimmed one jot or tittle from the holy writ
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
indeed, it suggests you are incapable of thinking an original thought On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:16:22 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No evidence suggests that I am not in the habit of proof texting
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip
cd: Hey Marlin- I still dumpster dive-No different from a flea market- But now days the nice people at the dumpsters place the stuff out for me if it is any good-if not- they have a good return policy.Got a TV with a cd player for my camper just the other day and a snow board for my grandson:-)Waste not want not. [Original Message] From: Marlin halverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Date: 2/21/2006 9:12:29 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Dear David Miller, I believe that my first post was critical of the way that members were treating one-another. Soon after, I found myself to be a recipient of ad hominem remarks. Since that time I have been very sparing with what I have contributed to the forum. Thank you David Miller, for maintaining your dignity throughout the time I have been tuned in to TT. You have my highest respect. I have not yet unsubscribed from TT. I am now waiting to see as Caroll is making an effort to improve the forum. He has my support in so doing. Alas, there has been an occasional golden nugget. Hanging around is akin to the times in my life when I have gone dumpster diving to find something of value. And I appreciate getting to know of others who are using their unique gifts and methods to minister for God. Love, Marlin -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Hi David, Luther was singing in Church before Calvin and his Geneva experiment. In fact there was a big controversy over whether or not he brough bar room tunes into the church putting different tunes to them. I don't personally know any song introduced by Calvin but Ilove "A Mighty Fortress Is My God" judyt On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:11:36 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy wrote: ... the Psalms are worship songs - and these were a reality long before Calvin. I assume by your comment here that you think Calvin did a GOOD THING by bringing them into a church which lacked such. Am I right in my assumption here? Did Calvin do something good in your eyes? David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Sorry ... I meant different words ... it's early On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 05:47:34 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi David, Luther was singing in Church before Calvin and his Geneva experiment. In fact there was a big controversy over whether or not he brough bar room tunes into the church putting different tunes to them. I don't personally know any song introduced by Calvin but Ilove "A Mighty Fortress Is My God" judyt On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:11:36 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy wrote: ... the Psalms are worship songs - and these were a reality long before Calvin. I assume by your comment here that you think Calvin did a GOOD THING by bringing them into a church which lacked such. Am I right in my assumption here? Did Calvin do something good in your eyes? David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Judy wrote: ... the Psalms are worship songs - and these were a reality long before Calvin. I assume by your comment here that you think Calvin did a GOOD THING by bringing them into a church which lacked such. Am I right in my assumption here? Did Calvin do something good in your eyes? David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Exactly! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 14:47 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-enforcing of some past Moderators has lead to many good minds leaving this site.If these attacks continue Lance it will only be a couple of people here and how long can two /three people carry on the same conversation? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 07:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment***
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Walking in as much light as one has been given so far is not the same as what you have been promoting Nor is it saying that ppl who have chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the other because there is no concord between Christ and Belial. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-enforcing of some past Moderators has lead to many good minds leaving this site.If these attacks continue Lance it will only be a couple of people here and how long can two /three people carry on the same conversation? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Exactly! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 07:12 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men Walking in as much light as one has been given so far is not the same as what you have been promoting Nor is it saying that ppl who have chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the other because there is no concord between Christ and Belial. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-e
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Has Canada had a tsnuami? Is this a new Lance or what? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:17:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 07:12 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men Walking in as much light as one has been given so far is not the same as what you have been promoting Nor is it saying that ppl who have chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the other because there is no concord between Christ and Belial. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
May 'exactly' and your 'exactly' may not convey the same meaning, Judy. This is, after all, what TT is about, is it not? My 'exactly' is, of course, God's 'exactly'. Once that is understood we can move on. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 07:28 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men Has Canada had a tsnuami? Is this a new Lance or what? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:17:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 07:12 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men Walking in as much light as one has been given so far is not the same as what you have been promoting Nor is it saying that ppl who have chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the other because there is no concord between Christ and Belial. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
For me Lance, exactly means exactly and truth means truth; no yours or mine about it. Personalizing everything as you do leads to gross deception. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:35:41 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: May 'exactly' and your 'exactly' may not convey the same meaning, Judy. This is, after all, what TT is about, is it not? My 'exactly' is, of course, God's 'exactly'. Once that is understood we can move on. From: Judy Taylor Has Canada had a tsnuami? Is this a new Lance or what? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:17:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor Walking in as much light as one has been given so far is not the same as what you have been promoting Nor is it saying that ppl who have chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the other because there is no concord between Christ and Belial. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
'Personalizing'? You may wish to employ another term in order to make your point, Judy. As there is an element of the author even in scripture so there is an element of one's self in everything one writes/speaks. Both you and Dean have, IMO, taken to slandering many of the great saints of church history. Neither of you sees it that way. OK. I attempt to discern, from the posts of each on TT, that which is simply an opinion, even when 'supported' with scripture, and that which is truly truthful. We all do that. It's just that a contingent exists on TT that sees itself as havingbeen promised something more than that. That's not OK. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 08:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men For me Lance, exactly means exactly and truth means truth; no yours or mine about it. Personalizing everything as you do leads to gross deception. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:35:41 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: May 'exactly' and your 'exactly' may not convey the same meaning, Judy. This is, after all, what TT is about, is it not? My 'exactly' is, of course, God's 'exactly'. Once that is understood we can move on. From: Judy Taylor Has Canada had a tsnuami? Is this a new Lance or what? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:17:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor Walking in as much light as one has been given so far is not the same as what you have been promoting Nor is it saying that ppl who have chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the other because there is no concord between Christ and Belial. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
The way I see it Lance, you and those you follow have been making your own saints. How do you know who is accepted and who is rejected before Jesus actually separates the sheep from the goats? Neither Luther nor Calvin are saints according to the RCC (which you also defend). The way God tells us we can recognize someone who represents God is that he not only is able to separate the precious from the vile; he also speaks the oracles of God which you claim noone is able to comprehendso I guess you and God part company on this issue which is one of many. I have not ever noted you holding scripture in great regard; you seldom if ever quote any of it so I am left wondering about the basis of your discernment and how you would know what is "truly truthful" On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:14:46 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 'Personalizing'? You may wish to employ another term in order to make your point, Judy. As there is an element of the author even in scripture so there is an element of one's self in everything one writes/speaks. Both you and Dean have, IMO, taken to slandering many of the great saints of church history. Neither of you sees it that way. OK. I attempt to discern, from the posts of each on TT, that which is simply an opinion, even when 'supported' with scripture, and that which is truly truthful. We all do that. It's just that a contingent exists on TT that sees itself as havingbeen promised something more than that. That's not OK. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 08:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men For me Lance, exactly means exactly and truth means truth; no yours or mine about it. Personalizing everything as you do leads to gross deception. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:35:41 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: May 'exactly' and your 'exactly' may not convey the same meaning, Judy. This is, after all, what TT is about, is it not? My 'exactly' is, of course, God's 'exactly'. Once that is understood we can move on. From: Judy Taylor Has Canada had a tsnuami? Is this a new Lance or what? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:17:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor Walking in as much light as one has been given so far is not the same as what you have been promoting Nor is it saying that ppl who have chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the other because there is no concord between Christ and Belial. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
1. The 'way you see it' Judy, is false. 2. Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted', I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does also. 3. I don't 'defend' the RCC, Judy. God's Spirit is present with the believers among them as He is with the believers in DM's gathering, Dean's gathering and, your gathering therefore, you ought to take it up with the Lord and, not me. 4. I don't claim that 'noone is able to comprehend the oracles of God'. Rather, Judy, I suggerst that noone comprehends exhaustively. These are not the same. 5. I hold scripture in the highest regard. I just don't hold in high regard is misuse. Who would? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 08:35 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men The way I see it Lance, you and those you follow have been making your own saints. How do you know who is accepted and who is rejected before Jesus actually separates the sheep from the goats? Neither Luther nor Calvin are saints according to the RCC (which you also defend). The way God tells us we can recognize someone who represents God is that he not only is able to separate the precious from the vile; he also speaks the oracles of God which you claim noone is able to comprehendso I guess you and God part company on this issue which is one of many. I have not ever noted you holding scripture in great regard; you seldom if ever quote any of it so I am left wondering about the basis of your discernment and how you would know what is "truly truthful" On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:14:46 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 'Personalizing'? You may wish to employ another term in order to make your point, Judy. As there is an element of the author even in scripture so there is an element of one's self in everything one writes/speaks. Both you and Dean have, IMO, taken to slandering many of the great saints of church history. Neither of you sees it that way. OK. I attempt to discern, from the posts of each on TT, that which is simply an opinion, even when 'supported' with scripture, and that which is truly truthful. We all do that. It's just that a contingent exists on TT that sees itself as havingbeen promised something more than that. That's not OK. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 08:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men For me Lance, exactly means exactly and truth means truth; no yours or mine about it. Personalizing everything as you do leads to gross deception. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:35:41 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: May 'exactly' and your 'exactly' may not convey the same meaning, Judy. This is, after all, what TT is about, is it not? My 'exactly' is, of course, God's 'exactly'. Once that is understood we can move on. From: Judy Taylor Has Canada had a tsnuami? Is this a new Lance or what? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:17:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor Walking in as much light as one has been given so far is not the same as what you have been promoting Nor is it saying that ppl who have chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the other because there is no concord between Christ and Belial. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exactly! From: Judy Taylor I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:46:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1. The 'way you see it' Judy, is
false.
Says who and upon what basis? Heresy
according to the "Church Fathers"?
2. Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted', I
count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does
also.
Then you and DM are the "authorities" and
your word is greater than God's Word and His judgment?
3. I don't 'defend' the RCC, Judy. God's Spirit
is present with the believers among them as He is with the believers in DM's
gathering, Dean's gathering and, your gathering therefore, you ought to take
it up with the Lord and, not me.
The Lord has never made such a
statement. You did. The Lord's statement is in Matt
7:21,22
4. I don't claim that 'noone is able to
comprehend the oracles of God'. Rather, Judy, I suggerst that noone
comprehends exhaustively. These are not the same.
Where does God say those who follow
him and speak for him must comprehend exhaustively; didn't He say they would
be told what to speak in that
same hour? Once more, this is your
requirement, not his.
5. I hold scripture in the highest regard. I just
don't hold in high regard is misuse. Who would?
I have no idea Lance, I only know that where ones
treasure is their heart is also and that "out of the
abundance that fills the heart, the mouth
speaks.
From: Judy Taylor
The way I see it Lance, you and those you follow
have been making your own saints. How do you know who is
accepted and who is rejected before Jesus actually
separates the sheep from the goats? Neither Luther nor
Calvin are saints according to the RCC (which you
also defend). The way God tells us we can recognize someone
who represents God is that he not only is able to
separate the precious from the vile; he also speaks the oracles
of God which you claim noone is able to
comprehendso I guess you and God part company on this issue
which
is one of many. I have not ever noted you
holding scripture in great regard; you seldom if ever quote any of it so
I
am left wondering about the basis of your
discernment and how you would know what is "truly truthful"
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:14:46 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
'Personalizing'? You may wish to employ
another term in order to make your point, Judy. As there is an element of
the author even in scripture so there is an element of one's self in
everything one writes/speaks. Both you and Dean have, IMO, taken to
slandering many of the great saints of church history. Neither of you sees
it that way. OK. I attempt to discern, from the posts
of each on TT, that which is simply an opinion, even when 'supported' with
scripture, and that which is truly truthful. We all do that. It's
just that a contingent exists on TT that sees itself as havingbeen
promised something more than that. That's not OK.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 27, 2006 08:04
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or
the Opinions of Men
For me Lance, exactly means exactly and truth
means truth; no yours or mine about it.
Personalizing everything as you do leads to
gross deception.
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:35:41 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
May 'exactly' and your 'exactly' may not
convey the same meaning, Judy. This is, after all, what TT is about,
is it not? My 'exactly' is, of course, God's 'exactly'. Once that is
understood we can move on.
From: Judy
Taylor
Has Canada had a tsnuami? Is this a
new Lance or what?
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:17:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Exactly!
From: Judy Taylor
Walking in as much light as one has
been given so far is not the same as what you have been
promoting
Nor is it saying that ppl who have
chosen darkness are walking in light. It has to be one or the
other
because there is no concord between
Christ and Belial.
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:10:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Exactly!
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
This, IMO, is NOT A DIALOGUE! This is a MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE MONOLOGUE. This, Judy, is why I posted that sound bite from 'Cool Hand Luke', 'what we have here is a failure to communicate'. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 08:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:46:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. The 'way you see it' Judy, is false. Says who and upon what basis? Heresy according to the "Church Fathers"? 2. Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted', I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does also. Then you and DM are the "authorities" and your word is greater than God's Word and His judgment? 3. I don't 'defend' the RCC, Judy. God's Spirit is present with the believers among them as He is with the believers in DM's gathering, Dean's gathering and, your gathering therefore, you ought to take it up with the Lord and, not me. The Lord has never made such a statement. You did. The Lord's statement is in Matt 7:21,22 4. I don't claim that 'noone is able to comprehend the oracles of God'. Rather, Judy, I suggerst that noone comprehends exhaustively. These are not the same. Where does God say those who follow him and speak for him must comprehend exhaustively; didn't He say they would be told what to speak in that same hour? Once more, this is your requirement, not his. 5. I hold scripture in the highest regard. I just don't hold in high regard is misuse. Who would? I have no idea Lance, I only know that where ones treasure is their heart is also and that "out of the abundance that fills the heart, the mouth speaks. From: Judy Taylor The way I see it Lance, you and those you follow have been making your own saints. How do you know who is accepted and who is rejected before Jesus actually separates the sheep from the goats? Neither Luther nor Calvin are saints according to the RCC (which you also defend). The way God tells us we can recognize someone who represents God is that he not only is able to separate the precious from the vile; he also speaks the oracles of God which you claim noone is able to comprehendso I guess you and God part company on this issue which is one of many. I have not ever noted you holding scripture in great regard; you seldom if ever quote any of it so I am left wondering about the basis of your discernment and how you would know what is "truly truthful" On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:14:46 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 'Personalizing'? You may wish to employ another term in order to make your point, Judy. As there is an element of the author even in scripture so there is an element of one's self in everything one writes/speaks. Both you and Dean have, IMO, taken to slandering many of the great saints of church history. Neither of you sees it that way. OK. I attempt to discern, from the posts of each on TT, that which is simply an opinion, even when 'supported' with scripture, and that which is truly truthful. We all do that. It's just that a contingent exists on TT that sees itself as havingbeen promised something more than that. That's not OK. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 08:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men For me Lance, exactly means exactly and truth means truth; no yours or mine about it. Personalizing everything as you do leads to gross deception. On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:35:41 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: May 'exactly' and your 'exactly' may not convey the same meaning, Judy. This is, after all, what TT is about, is it not? My 'exactly' is, of course, God's 'exactly'. Once that is understood we can move on. From: Judy Taylor Has Canada had a tsnuami? Is this a new Lance or what? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:17:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
On whose terms Lance? I am being honest and up front, I
am communicating where I am at.
Your problem is that you can not accept what I write - so why cloak it in devious terms. Why not
come right out and tel it like it isLance?
God knows and after all He is the "important One" It
is
He who holds life and death in His hands. What is man
whose breath is in his nostrils?
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:02:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This, IMO, is NOT A DIALOGUE! This is a MUTUALLY
EXCLUSIVE MONOLOGUE. This, Judy, is why I posted that sound bite from 'Cool
Hand Luke', 'what we have here is a failure to communicate'.
From: Judy Taylor
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:46:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
1. The 'way you see it' Judy, is
false.
Says who and upon what basis? Heresy
according to the "Church Fathers"?
2. Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted',
I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does
also.
Then you and DM are the "authorities"
and your word is greater than God's Word and His judgment?
3. I don't 'defend' the RCC, Judy. God's
Spirit is present with the believers among them as He is with the
believers in DM's gathering, Dean's gathering and, your gathering
therefore, you ought to take it up with the Lord and, not me.
The Lord has never made such a
statement. You did. The Lord's statement is in Matt
7:21,22
4. I don't claim that 'noone is able to
comprehend the oracles of God'. Rather, Judy, I suggerst that noone
comprehends exhaustively. These are not the same.
Where does God say those who
follow him and speak for him must comprehend exhaustively; didn't He say
they would be told what to
speak in that same hour? Once
more, this is your requirement, not his.
5. I hold scripture in the highest regard. I
just don't hold in high regard is misuse. Who would?
I have no idea Lance, I only know that where ones
treasure is their heart is also and that "out of the
abundance that fills the heart, the mouth
speaks.
From: Judy
Taylor
The way I see it Lance, you and those you
follow have been making your own saints. How do you know who
is
accepted and who is rejected before Jesus
actually separates the sheep from the goats? Neither Luther
nor
Calvin are saints according to the RCC (which
you also defend). The way God tells us we can recognize someone
who represents God is that he not only is able
to separate the precious from the vile; he also speaks the oracles
of God which you claim noone is able to
comprehendso I guess you and God part company on this issue
which
is one of many. I have not ever noted you
holding scripture in great regard; you seldom if ever quote any of it so
I
am left wondering about the basis of your
discernment and how you would know what is "truly truthful"
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:14:46 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
'Personalizing'? You may wish to employ
another term in order to make your point, Judy. As there is an element
of the author even in scripture so there is an element of one's self
in everything one writes/speaks. Both you and Dean have, IMO, taken to
slandering many of the great saints of church history. Neither of you
sees it that way. OK. I attempt to discern, from
the posts of each on TT, that which is simply an opinion, even when
'supported' with scripture, and that which is truly truthful.
We all do that. It's just that a contingent exists on TT that sees
itself as havingbeen promised something more than that. That's
not OK.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 27, 2006
08:04
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth
or the Opinions of Men
For me Lance, exactly means exactly and
truth means truth; no yours or mine about it.
Personalizing everything as you do leads to
gross deception.
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:35:41 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
May 'exactly' and your 'exactly' may
not convey the s
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Lance wrote: Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted', I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does also. Judy wrote: Then you and DM are the authorities and your word is greater than God's Word and His judgment? Judy, please show me in God's Word and God's judgment exactly what makes Calvin and Luther not accepted by the Lord? I hope your reason for rejecting them is not the same as the RCC's reason. David Miller p.s. By the way, for those on the list who appreciate singing worship songs together, Calvin is the one credited with introducing this tradition in the church in Geneva. Would this be good fruit or bad fruit? -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Judy, while it is helpful to look at differences, communication also requires looking at areas of agreement. Surely there is something in what Lance says that you can find agreement with. Isn't there? For example, Lance says that the Lord is present in your gatherings. True? Lance says God is present in the RCC. Well, if Paul at Athens can say to the heathen Athenians,"in him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28), surely you can find some agreement about God's presence in the RCC. Lance says that no onecomprehends exhaustively. True? Lance says that Scripture is to be held in high regard. True? Now please don't think that I am saying that you just accept all that Lance says. I'm just trying to help you communicate. Hear what he says that is true, and affirm that, then when you tweak other areas, you might lead him to understanding your viewpoint a little better. I think you have some good things to say to Lance, but I also agree with Lance that what we have here is a failure to communicate. This happens when one side stubbornly cannot hear the other side. David Miller - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men On whose terms Lance? I am being honest and up front, I am communicating where I am at. Your problem is that you can not accept what I write - so why cloak it in devious terms. Why not come right out and tel it like it isLance? God knows and after all He is the "important One" It is He who holds life and death in His hands. What is man whose breath is in his nostrils? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:02:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This, IMO, is NOT A DIALOGUE! This is a MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE MONOLOGUE. This, Judy, is why I posted that sound bite from 'Cool Hand Luke', 'what we have here is a failure to communicate'. From: Judy Taylor On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:46:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. The 'way you see it' Judy, is false. Says who and upon what basis? Heresy according to the "Church Fathers"? 2. Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted', I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does also. Then you and DM are the "authorities" and your word is greater than God's Word and His judgment? 3. I don't 'defend' the RCC, Judy. God's Spirit is present with the believers among them as He is with the believers in DM's gathering, Dean's gathering and, your gathering therefore, you ought to take it up with the Lord and, not me. The Lord has never made such a statement. You did. The Lord's statement is in Matt 7:21,22 4. I don't claim that 'noone is able to comprehend the oracles of God'. Rather, Judy, I suggerst that noone comprehends exhaustively. These are not the same. Where does God say those who follow him and speak for him must comprehend exhaustively; didn't He say they would be told what to speak in that same hour? Once more, this is your requirement, not his. 5. I hold scripture in the highest regard. I just don't hold in high regard is misuse. Who would? I have no idea Lance, I only know that where ones treasure is their heart is also and that "out of the abundance that fills the heart, the mouth speaks. From: Judy Taylor The way I see it Lance, you and those you follow have been making your own saints. How do you know who is accepted and who is rejected before Jesus actually separates the sheep from the goats? Neither Luther nor Calvin are saints according to the RCC (which you also defend). The way God tells us we can recognize someone who represents God is that he not only is able to separate the precious from the vile; he also speaks the oracles of God which you claim noone is able to comprehendso I guess you and God part company on this issue which is one of many. I have not ever noted you holding scripture in great regard; you seldom if ever quote any of it so I am left wondering about the basis of your discernment and how you would know what is "truly truthful" On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:14:46 -0500 "Lance Muir&q
Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Hi David: I'm not ready to pronounce either sainthood or damnation on any soulliving or dead since that authority has been given but not to me. BTW the Psalms are worship songs - and thesewere a reality long before Calvin. From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Lance wrote: Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted', I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does also. Judy wrote: Then you and DM are the "authorities" and your word is greater than God's Word and His judgment? Judy, please show me in "God's Word" and "God's judgment" exactly what makes Calvin and Luther not accepted by the Lord? I hope your reason for rejecting them is not the same as the RCC's reason. David Miller p.s. By the way, for those on the list who appreciate singing worship songs together, Calvin is the one credited with introducing this tradition in the church in Geneva. Would this be good fruit or bad fruit? --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:06:42 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy, while it is helpful to look at differences, communication also requires looking at areas of agreement. Surely there is something in what Lance says that you can find agreement with. Isn't there? For example, Lance says that the Lord is present in your gatherings. True? I'm not even so sure about that David; I rather think he stands at the door and knocks while we go on with our programs and dead religious works. Lance says God is present in the RCC. Well, if Paul at Athens can say to the heathen Athenians,"in him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28), surely you can find some agreement about God's presence in the RCC. Acts 17:28 speaks of God's Omnipresence - Paul is trying to persuade these lost Athenians to seek Him. I don't see every person who claims to be RCC as going to hell per se while they still have time to repent and turn from idols to the living God. Lance says that no onecomprehends exhaustively. True? I don't burden myself with this kind of a question David - who knows? Lance says that Scripture is to be held in high regard. True? Jesus the Living Word says that if we love Him and hold Him in high regard we will be doing what He says. Now please don't think that I am saying that you just accept all that Lance says. I'm just trying to help you communicate. Hear what he says that is true, and affirm that, then when you tweak other areas, you might lead him to understanding your viewpoint a little better. I do appreciate your concern David but I don't see the above happening any time soon - Lance speaks on an intellectual level and I am talking about the spiritual reality of God's revelation. The two are like oil and water. I think you have some good things to say to Lance, but I also agree with Lance that what we have here is a failure to communicate. This happens when one side stubbornly cannot hear the other side. Or it happens when God closes the eyes, ears, and heart as he has done with the Jews and others who reject His Truth. David Miller - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men On whose terms Lance? I am being honest and up front, I am communicating where I am at. Your problem is that you can not accept what I write - so why cloak it in devious terms. Why not come right out and tel it like it isLance? God knows and after all He is the "important One" It is He who holds life and death in His hands. What is man whose breath is in his nostrils? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:02:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This, IMO, is NOT A DIALOGUE! This is a MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE MONOLOGUE. This, Judy, is why I posted that sound bite from 'Cool Hand Luke', 'what we have here is a failure to communicate'. From: Judy Taylor On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:46:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. The 'way you see it' Judy, is false. Says who and upon what basis? Heresy according to the "Church Fathers"? 2. Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted', I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does also. Then you and DM are the "authorities" and your word is greater than God's Word and His judgment? 3. I don't 'defend' the RCC, Judy. God's Spirit is present with the believers among them as He is with the believers in DM's gathering, Dean's gathering and, your gathering therefore, you ought to take it up with the Lord and, not me. The Lord has never made such a statement. You did. The Lord's statement is in Matt 7:21,22 4. I don't claim that 'noone is able to comprehend the oracles of God'. Rather, Judy, I suggerst that noone comprehends exhaustively. These are not the same. Where does God say those who follow him and speak for him must comprehend exhaustively; didn't He say they would be told what to speak in that same hour? Once more, this is your requirement, not his. 5. I hold scripture in the highest regard. I just don't hold in high regard is misuse. Who would?
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Judy: As you and I have pretty much never 'clicked' on anything, would it be better for you and, for TT if we just gave one another's posts a wide birth? I'd respect that from my end if you wished it. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 27, 2006 11:37 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:06:42 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy, while it is helpful to look at differences, communication also requires looking at areas of agreement. Surely there is something in what Lance says that you can find agreement with. Isn't there? For example, Lance says that the Lord is present in your gatherings. True? I'm not even so sure about that David; I rather think he stands at the door and knocks while we go on with our programs and dead religious works. Lance says God is present in the RCC. Well, if Paul at Athens can say to the heathen Athenians,"in him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28), surely you can find some agreement about God's presence in the RCC. Acts 17:28 speaks of God's Omnipresence - Paul is trying to persuade these lost Athenians to seek Him. I don't see every person who claims to be RCC as going to hell per se while they still have time to repent and turn from idols to the living God. Lance says that no onecomprehends exhaustively. True? I don't burden myself with this kind of a question David - who knows? Lance says that Scripture is to be held in high regard. True? Jesus the Living Word says that if we love Him and hold Him in high regard we will be doing what He says. Now please don't think that I am saying that you just accept all that Lance says. I'm just trying to help you communicate. Hear what he says that is true, and affirm that, then when you tweak other areas, you might lead him to understanding your viewpoint a little better. I do appreciate your concern David but I don't see the above happening any time soon - Lance speaks on an intellectual level and I am talking about the spiritual reality of God's revelation. The two are like oil and water. I think you have some good things to say to Lance, but I also agree with Lance that what we have here is a failure to communicate. This happens when one side stubbornly cannot hear the other side. Or it happens when God closes the eyes, ears, and heart as he has done with the Jews and others who reject His Truth. David Miller - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men On whose terms Lance? I am being honest and up front, I am communicating where I am at. Your problem is that you can not accept what I write - so why cloak it in devious terms. Why not come right out and tel it like it isLance? God knows and after all He is the "important One" It is He who holds life and death in His hands. What is man whose breath is in his nostrils? On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:02:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This, IMO, is NOT A DIALOGUE! This is a MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE MONOLOGUE. This, Judy, is why I posted that sound bite from 'Cool Hand Luke', 'what we have here is a failure to communicate'. From: Judy Taylor On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:46:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. The 'way you see it' Judy, is false. Says who and upon what basis? Heresy according to the "Church Fathers"? 2. Insofar as one can 'know who is accepted', I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd appear that DM does also. Then you and DM are the "authorities" and your word is greater than God's Word and His judgment? 3. I don't 'defend' the RCC, Judy. God's Spirit is present with the believers among them as He is with the believers in DM's gathering, Dean's gathering and, your gathering therefore, you ought to take it up with the Lord and, not me. The Lord has n
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
Why Lance?
You disagree just as muchwith Dean, DavidM, and
with the Mormon boys, do you want us all to give
you a wide berth? This reminds me of the state of
the backslidden and fallen away religious system
Ppl acting like everything is wonderful on the surface,
walking out of separate doors and dying inside.
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:03:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy: As you and I have pretty much never
'clicked' on anything, would it be better for you and, for TT if we just gave
one another's posts a wide birth? I'd respect that from my end if you wished
it.
From: Judy Taylor
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:06:42 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy, while it is helpful to look at
differences, communication also requires looking at areas of
agreement. Surely there is something in what Lance says that you can
find agreement with. Isn't there?
For example, Lance says that the Lord is
present in your gatherings. True?
I'm not even so sure about
that David; I rather think he stands at the door and knocks while we go on
with our programs
and dead religious
works.
Lance says God is present in the
RCC. Well, if Paul at Athens can say to the heathen
Athenians,"in him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28),
surely you can find some agreement about God's presence in the
RCC.
Acts 17:28 speaks of God's
Omnipresence - Paul is trying to persuade these lost Athenians to seek
Him. I don't see every person
who claims to be RCC as
going to hell per se while they still have time to repent and turn from
idols to the living God.
Lance says that no onecomprehends
exhaustively. True?
I don't burden myself with
this kind of a question David - who knows?
Lance says that Scripture is to be held
in high regard. True?
Jesus the Living Word says
that if we love Him and hold Him in high regard we will be doing what He
says.
Now please don't think that I am saying
that you just accept all that Lance says. I'm just trying to help
you communicate. Hear what he says that is true, and affirm that,
then when you tweak other areas, you might lead him to understanding your
viewpoint a little better.
I do appreciate your
concern David but I don't see the above happening any time soon - Lance
speaks on an intellectual level
and I am talking about the
spiritual reality of God's revelation. The two are like oil and
water.
I think you have some good things
to say to Lance, but I also agree with Lance that what we have here is a
failure to communicate. This happens when one side stubbornly cannot
hear the other side.
Or it happens when God
closes the eyes, ears, and heart as he has done with the Jews and others
who reject His Truth.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006
9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or
the Opinions of Men
On whose terms Lance? I am being honest and up
front, I am communicating where I am at.
Your problem is that you can not accept
what I write - so why cloak it in devious
terms. Why not
come right out and tel it like it
isLance? God knows and after all He is the "important One" It is
He who holds life and death in His hands. What
is man whose breath is in his
nostrils?
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:02:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
This, IMO, is NOT A DIALOGUE! This is a
MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE MONOLOGUE. This, Judy, is why I posted that sound
bite from 'Cool Hand Luke', 'what we have here is a failure to
communicate'.
From: Judy
Taylor
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:46:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
1. The 'way you see it' Judy, is
false.
Says who and upon what basis?
Heresy according to the "Church Fathers"?
2. Insofar as one can 'know who is
accepted', I count Calvin and Luther among that number. It'd
appear that DM does also.
Then you and DM are the
"authoritie
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
That, Judy, was not my meaning.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 27, 2006 13:36
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the
Opinions of Men
Why Lance?
You disagree just as muchwith Dean, DavidM, and
with the Mormon boys, do you want us all to give
you a wide berth? This reminds me of the state
of the backslidden and fallen away religious system
Ppl acting like everything is wonderful on the
surface, walking out of separate doors and dying inside.
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:03:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Judy: As you and I have pretty much never
'clicked' on anything, would it be better for you and, for TT if we just
gave one another's posts a wide birth? I'd respect that from my end if you
wished it.
From: Judy Taylor
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:06:42 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy, while it is helpful to look at
differences, communication also requires looking at areas of
agreement. Surely there is something in what Lance says that you
can find agreement with. Isn't there?
For example, Lance says that the Lord
is present in your gatherings. True?
I'm not even so sure
about that David; I rather think he stands at the door and knocks while
we go on with our programs
and dead religious
works.
Lance says God is present in the
RCC. Well, if Paul at Athens can say to the heathen
Athenians,"in him we live and move and have our being" (Acts
17:28), surely you can find some agreement about God's presence in the
RCC.
Acts 17:28 speaks of
God's Omnipresence - Paul is trying to persuade these lost Athenians to
seek Him. I don't see every person
who claims to be RCC as
going to hell per se while they still have time to repent and turn from
idols to the living God.
Lance says that no
onecomprehends exhaustively. True?
I don't burden myself
with this kind of a question David - who knows?
Lance says that Scripture is to be
held in high regard. True?
Jesus the Living Word
says that if we love Him and hold Him in high regard we will be doing
what He says.
Now please don't think that I am
saying that you just accept all that Lance says. I'm just trying
to help you communicate. Hear what he says that is true, and
affirm that, then when you tweak other areas, you might lead him to
understanding your viewpoint a little better.
I do appreciate your
concern David but I don't see the above happening any time soon - Lance
speaks on an intellectual level
and I am talking about
the spiritual reality of God's revelation. The two are like oil
and water.
I think you have some good
things to say to Lance, but I also agree with Lance that what we have
here is a failure to communicate. This happens when one side
stubbornly cannot hear the other side.
Or it happens when God
closes the eyes, ears, and heart as he has done with the Jews and others
who reject His Truth.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006
9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or
the Opinions of Men
On whose terms Lance? I am being honest and
up front, I am communicating where I am at.
Your problem is that you can not accept
what I write - so why cloak it in devious
terms. Why not
come right out and tel it like it
isLance? God knows and after all He is the "important One" It is
He who holds life and death in His hands.
What is man whose breath is in his
nostrils?
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:02:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
This, IMO, is NOT A DIALOGUE! This is a
MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE MONOLOGUE. This, Judy, is why I posted that sound
bite from 'Cool Hand Luke', 'what we have here is a failure to
communicate'.
From: Judy Taylor
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:46:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-enforcing of some past Moderators has lead to many good minds leaving this site.If these attacks continue Lance it will only be a couple of people here and how long can two /three people carry on the same conversation? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 07:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/26/2006 4:13:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** You spoke my question "G"? Moderator-This simply means that the rules against insults and personal attacks are going to be unforced by me-others are under my protection and will get fair treatment-I owe that to God not to those who will not keep their agreement and abide by the rules. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 25, 2006 18:07 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** ftr, what does this mean? On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:40:32 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I plan on enforcing the rules of protection on TT against those who love ch[ao]s
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 09:55 Subject: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-enforcing of some past Moderators has lead to many good minds leaving this site.If these attacks continue Lance it will only be a couple of people here and how long can two /three people carry on the same conversation? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 07:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/26/2006 4:13:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** You spoke my question "G"? Moderator-This simply means that the rules against insults and personal attacks are going to be unforced by me-others are under my protection and will get fair treatment-I owe that to God not to those who will not keep their agreement and abide by the rules. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 25, 2006 18:07 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** ftr, what does this mean? On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:40:32 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I plan on enforcing the rules of protection on TT against those who love ch[ao]s
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-enforcing of some past Moderators has lead to many good minds leaving this site.If these attacks continue Lance it will only be a couple of people here and how long can two /three people carry on the same conversation? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 07:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/26/2006 4:13:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** You spoke my question "G"? Moderator-This simply means that the rules against insults and personal attacks are going to be unforced by me-others are under my protection and will get fair treatment-I owe that to God not to those who will not keep their agreement and abide by the rules. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 25, 2006 18:07 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** ftr, what does this mean? On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:40:32 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I plan on enforcing the rules of protection on TT against those who love ch[ao]s
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 10:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-enforcing of some past Moderators has lead to many good minds leaving this site.If these attacks continue Lance it will only be a couple of people here and how long can two /three people carry on the same conversation? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 07:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/26/2006 4:13:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** You spoke my question "G"? Moderator-This simply means that the rules against insults and personal attacks are going to be unforced by me-others are under my protection and will get fair treatment-I owe that to God not to those who will not keep their agreement and abide by the rules. - Original Message - From:
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth or the Opinions of Men
I was in too much of a hurry; I meant to say I do disagree Lance because as I see it some choose to walk in darkness; while others embrace the light and as scripture says "the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn it shines brighter till the full day". It is possible to be walking in all the light one has and ATST not be in error. Noone alive today has the whole loaf. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You said 'No I don't disagree, Lance'. Therefore some of that which you believe say is error. Correct? This is, IMO, being made unnecessarily complex. From: Judy Taylor No Lance I don't because the condemnation is that some prefer darkness to light and refuse to come. I believe somewalk in complete and total darkness and there is little or no fear of God in the land, yours or mine. On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THERE IS OBJECTIVE TRUTH!! You, Judy, see some of it. Everybody on the planet sees some of it. Nobody, including you, has all of it. Do you disagree? From: Judy Taylor You speak as though there were no "objective Truth" Lance and to me it appears as though this is where you live. Not so for me and others. We may bethe minority but then just because your opinion a majority or ecumenical one; this ishardly a recommendation - is it?? On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:18 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I disagree. DH has chosen The Mormon religion. To insult his religion is akin to the "cartoon incident' re: the Muslims. If John Lennon were to have been my brother then, I'd most assuredly receive that as an personal insult. From: Dean Moore cd: Maybe to John Calvin but not towards you-see the difference?If the truth insults then that person needs to change not the truth. If I were to say that John Lennon was a pig-that is acceptable as I am not making a personal attack on you.But if I were to insult you by calling you names then I have personally attacked you and would be in error to do so Lance. If I were to say to DavH : Mormons are stupid I have not attacked DavH but rather my attack was on the teaching of Mormonism. In short-express your self but don't let it get personal. From: Lance Muir IFO took your, and Judy's, evaluation of John Calvin to be nothing short of an insult. However, should you 'rule' on this matter thus eliminating your/my assessment to be off limits then, we would have no ongoing dialogue. By the way, wasn't there some kind of mystery 'rule' about not responding to posts with the above subject heading? No-there isn't any "new rule". This is the same rule Perry enforced. If I make the call that someone has broken the Ad. Hom. rule- that protects others from verbal assaults- then reply to that in private. If I did not enforce thisthen the issue of that person wrongs will become part of the debate and become unsolvable as others got involved.-this is for you protection as well as others. The non-enforcing of some past Moderators has lead to many good minds leaving this site.If these attacks continue Lance it will only be a couple of people here and how long can two /three people carry on the same conversation? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 26, 2006 07:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/26/2006 4:13:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] *** To all list members-Moderator Comment*** You spoke my question "G"? Moderator-This simply means that
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip
[Original Message] From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Date: 2/22/2006 8:56:44 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Anyone see 'High Noon' recently? Now, just who is 'Frank Miller' and, who is 'Will Kane'? cd: It has been a few years Lance-but from memory-Frank Miller is the returning killer who was released from prison and is on a quest for vengence to the sheriff who captured him. Isn't Will Cane the sheriff? And your point? - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 22, 2006 08:38 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Thank you so much, Marlin, for sharing this. It gives me great hope that Dean's leadership will bring about a list that will be much more productive and enjoyable for everyone. God bless you. David Miller. === - Original Message - From: Marlin halverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Dear David Miller, I believe that my first post was critical of the way that members were treating one-another. Soon after, I found myself to be a recipient of ad hominem remarks. Since that time I have been very sparing with what I have contributed to the forum. Thank you David Miller, for maintaining your dignity throughout the time I have been tuned in to TT. You have my highest respect. I have not yet unsubscribed from TT. I am now waiting to see as Caroll is making an effort to improve the forum. He has my support in so doing. Alas, there has been an occasional golden nugget. Hanging around is akin to the times in my life when I have gone dumpster diving to find something of value. And I appreciate getting to know of others who are using their unique gifts and methods to minister for God. Love, Marlin -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip
'twas an rhetorical question, Dean. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 24, 2006 06:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip [Original Message] From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Date: 2/22/2006 8:56:44 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Anyone see 'High Noon' recently? Now, just who is 'Frank Miller' and, who is 'Will Kane'? cd: It has been a few years Lance-but from memory-Frank Miller is the returning killer who was released from prison and is on a quest for vengence to the sheriff who captured him. Isn't Will Cane the sheriff? And your point? - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 22, 2006 08:38 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Thank you so much, Marlin, for sharing this. It gives me great hope that Dean's leadership will bring about a list that will be much more productive and enjoyable for everyone. God bless you. David Miller. === - Original Message - From: Marlin halverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Dear David Miller, I believe that my first post was critical of the way that members were treating one-another. Soon after, I found myself to be a recipient of ad hominem remarks. Since that time I have been very sparing with what I have contributed to the forum. Thank you David Miller, for maintaining your dignity throughout the time I have been tuned in to TT. You have my highest respect. I have not yet unsubscribed from TT. I am now waiting to see as Caroll is making an effort to improve the forum. He has my support in so doing. Alas, there has been an occasional golden nugget. Hanging around is akin to the times in my life when I have gone dumpster diving to find something of value. And I appreciate getting to know of others who are using their unique gifts and methods to minister for God. Love, Marlin -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip
Thank you so much, Marlin, for sharing this. It gives me great hope that Dean's leadership will bring about a list that will be much more productive and enjoyable for everyone. God bless you. David Miller. === - Original Message - From: Marlin halverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Dear David Miller, I believe that my first post was critical of the way that members were treating one-another. Soon after, I found myself to be a recipient of ad hominem remarks. Since that time I have been very sparing with what I have contributed to the forum. Thank you David Miller, for maintaining your dignity throughout the time I have been tuned in to TT. You have my highest respect. I have not yet unsubscribed from TT. I am now waiting to see as Caroll is making an effort to improve the forum. He has my support in so doing. Alas, there has been an occasional golden nugget. Hanging around is akin to the times in my life when I have gone dumpster diving to find something of value. And I appreciate getting to know of others who are using their unique gifts and methods to minister for God. Love, Marlin -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip
How much of that which you claim, without proof, that John 'believes' concerning you is drawn from hsi reading of and, conversations with, you? When you David, speak of any living person in a manner that might be deemed critical do you attempt to cc them? - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: February 21, 2006 16:21 Subject: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Lance quotes Debbie: a false rumour has the power to destroy a person. Considering the truthfulness of this statement, I would like to clarify some things because it has come to my attention that John is engaging others on this forum in gossip about me. John tells me that he will not courtesy copy me on any of these communications about me. His grapevine involves at least four other TruthTalk members. I cannot force him not to gossip, nor can I force anyone to turn away their ear from hearing gossip and falsehoods, but when I know of it occurring, I can shine a light upon it and urge you all to turn away from listening to gossip about others. John and I have had some private exchanges wherein he has clarified a number of things concerning his attitude toward me. 1. He believes that I am a false prophet. 2. He believes that I am a fraud and that I am addicted to fraud. 3. He believes that I am addicted to arrogance. 4. He believes that I am addicted to deceit. 5. He believes that I am addicted to the false witness of the beliefs of others. 6. He believes that I am a backstabber, and that I have backstabbed him. 7. He believes that I am allowing a lie to rule the day. 8. He believes that a good amount of my life is a lie. 9. He believes that I claimed to be a Ph.D. and that I tried to make others believe that I had a Ph.D. 10. He claims that there are four other TruthTalk members who believe that I pretended to have a Ph.D. 11. He believes that I claimed to be an apostle. 12. He believes that it was his persistent questioning that exposed these falsehoods of a Ph.D. degree and apostolic function that I was supposedly trying to convince everyone else to be true about me. 13. He believes that I have set myself up as a judge. 14. He believes that I speak ONLY from personal bias. 15. He believes that there is scarcely a single post addressed to him from me that does not have something personal and insulting. 16. He believes that I have made false claims about successes as a street preacher. 17. He believes Dean has elevated the moderator position to that of judge and jury. 18. He believes Dean is a coward. 19. He believes Dean hides behind the testimony of confused and weak women. 20. He believes that Dean is no different than southern hicks who hung blacks, burned churches, and killed those who opposed their ignorance. 21. He believes that Dean lacks integrity. 22. He believes that Dean and Judy are lying about him asking for her Pastor's name in order to get his opinion on her teachings. 23 He tells me that SEVERAL on TruthTalk have told him that I am a scary fellow. 24. He believes that he was expelled for a lie. 25. He believes that my questions about his leadership role and my interest in talking with those in leadership with him constituted a threat. 26. He believes that I had the notion of vengeful activity toward him. 27. He believes that I wanted to expose him to his pastor, but what I was going to expose is not stated. 28. He believes that I wanted to speak evil about him. 29. He has no reason to believe anything I say. 30. He believes that I am profoundly ignorant. 31. He believes that there was nothing ad hominem in his treatment of me. 32. He believes that he knows the real reason he was expelled and it is not the reason that I think it was. 33. He makes it clear to me that I am not his friend. 34. He believes that I am a cultist without a cult. 35. He believes that my evil is profound. Very clearly, communication between us has completely broken down. These recent disclosures have caused a total lack of trust on my part toward John. It disturbs me that others on TruthTalk are engaging in gossip with him. I consider gossip a sin, and I urge anyone who is engaging in it and allowing their minds to be soured by this man to reconsider what they are doing. John has said that several of you think I am a scary person because I asked John which of the Foursquare pastors in his community he was working with. I want to clarify some facts about this right now. When John said his leadership role was pastor, and he gave me his city, I looked up on the Foursquare directory the church there. Instead of John Smithson listed there, it was another man. John had said in the past that his church was large, so I assumed that perhaps he was an associate pastor or assistant pastor. This led to me writing and asking John about it. This post follows: === - Original Message
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip
Anyone see 'High Noon' recently? Now, just who is 'Frank Miller' and, who is 'Will Kane'? - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 22, 2006 08:38 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Thank you so much, Marlin, for sharing this. It gives me great hope that Dean's leadership will bring about a list that will be much more productive and enjoyable for everyone. God bless you. David Miller. === - Original Message - From: Marlin halverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip Dear David Miller, I believe that my first post was critical of the way that members were treating one-another. Soon after, I found myself to be a recipient of ad hominem remarks. Since that time I have been very sparing with what I have contributed to the forum. Thank you David Miller, for maintaining your dignity throughout the time I have been tuned in to TT. You have my highest respect. I have not yet unsubscribed from TT. I am now waiting to see as Caroll is making an effort to improve the forum. He has my support in so doing. Alas, there has been an occasional golden nugget. Hanging around is akin to the times in my life when I have gone dumpster diving to find something of value. And I appreciate getting to know of others who are using their unique gifts and methods to minister for God. Love, Marlin -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Truth Gossip
Lance quotes Debbie: a false rumour has the power to destroy a person. Considering the truthfulness of this statement, I would like to clarify some things because it has come to my attention that John is engaging others on this forum in gossip about me. John tells me that he will not courtesy copy me on any of these communications about me. His grapevine involves at least four other TruthTalk members. I cannot force him not to gossip, nor can I force anyone to turn away their ear from hearing gossip and falsehoods, but when I know of it occurring, I can shine a light upon it and urge you all to turn away from listening to gossip about others. John and I have had some private exchanges wherein he has clarified a number of things concerning his attitude toward me. 1. He believes that I am a false prophet. 2. He believes that I am a fraud and that I am addicted to fraud. 3. He believes that I am addicted to arrogance. 4. He believes that I am addicted to deceit. 5. He believes that I am addicted to the false witness of the beliefs of others. 6. He believes that I am a backstabber, and that I have backstabbed him. 7. He believes that I am allowing a lie to rule the day. 8. He believes that a good amount of my life is a lie. 9. He believes that I claimed to be a Ph.D. and that I tried to make others believe that I had a Ph.D. 10. He claims that there are four other TruthTalk members who believe that I pretended to have a Ph.D. 11. He believes that I claimed to be an apostle. 12. He believes that it was his persistent questioning that exposed these falsehoods of a Ph.D. degree and apostolic function that I was supposedly trying to convince everyone else to be true about me. 13. He believes that I have set myself up as a judge. 14. He believes that I speak ONLY from personal bias. 15. He believes that there is scarcely a single post addressed to him from me that does not have something personal and insulting. 16. He believes that I have made false claims about successes as a street preacher. 17. He believes Dean has elevated the moderator position to that of judge and jury. 18. He believes Dean is a coward. 19. He believes Dean hides behind the testimony of confused and weak women. 20. He believes that Dean is no different than southern hicks who hung blacks, burned churches, and killed those who opposed their ignorance. 21. He believes that Dean lacks integrity. 22. He believes that Dean and Judy are lying about him asking for her Pastor's name in order to get his opinion on her teachings. 23 He tells me that SEVERAL on TruthTalk have told him that I am a scary fellow. 24. He believes that he was expelled for a lie. 25. He believes that my questions about his leadership role and my interest in talking with those in leadership with him constituted a threat. 26. He believes that I had the notion of vengeful activity toward him. 27. He believes that I wanted to expose him to his pastor, but what I was going to expose is not stated. 28. He believes that I wanted to speak evil about him. 29. He has no reason to believe anything I say. 30. He believes that I am profoundly ignorant. 31. He believes that there was nothing ad hominem in his treatment of me. 32. He believes that he knows the real reason he was expelled and it is not the reason that I think it was. 33. He makes it clear to me that I am not his friend. 34. He believes that I am a cultist without a cult. 35. He believes that my evil is profound. Very clearly, communication between us has completely broken down. These recent disclosures have caused a total lack of trust on my part toward John. It disturbs me that others on TruthTalk are engaging in gossip with him. I consider gossip a sin, and I urge anyone who is engaging in it and allowing their minds to be soured by this man to reconsider what they are doing. John has said that several of you think I am a scary person because I asked John which of the Foursquare pastors in his community he was working with. I want to clarify some facts about this right now. When John said his leadership role was pastor, and he gave me his city, I looked up on the Foursquare directory the church there. Instead of John Smithson listed there, it was another man. John had said in the past that his church was large, so I assumed that perhaps he was an associate pastor or assistant pastor. This led to me writing and asking John about it. This post follows: === - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding John wrote: ... I speak as one who is leadership. David wrote: What is your leadership position in your local church? John wrote: Pastor. I am one no matter where I attend. Does it sound arrogant for me to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, California? No, not
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Gossip
Dear David Miller, I believe that my first post was critical of the way that members were treating one-another. Soon after, I found myself to be a recipient of ad hominem remarks. Since that time I have been very sparing with what I have contributed to the forum. Thank you David Miller, for maintaining your dignity throughout the time I have been tuned in to TT. You have my highest respect. I have not yet unsubscribed from TT. I am now waiting to see as Caroll is making an effort to improve the forum. He has my support in so doing. Alas, there has been an occasional golden nugget. Hanging around is akin to the times in my life when I have gone dumpster diving to find something of value. And I appreciate getting to know of others who are using their unique gifts and methods to minister for God. Love, Marlin -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
Preach Christ by all means and always with gentleness and respect so that none can criticize you. As far as it is possible, live at peace with one another. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada CW other ways to bring the gospel to the people. Like your puppet ministry at church? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The PC crowd has no tolerance for hate literature. No ACLU in Canada, remember. Either the Evangelist will choose fines and jail (and jail is frequent in some countries like China) or he will find other ways to bring the gospel to the people. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada $17,000 fine for handing out literature? The PC crowd is very INTOLERANT even of words! But to hear them talk that is a different story, they love to tell you how open they are!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from
RE: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
Golly, Ive never seen that happen here! (Only all over the place, including my own neighborhood.) Do we still have phone booths in AmericaI thought they went out with the dark ages? And how about all those abandoned igloos in Canada? J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:12 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada CW seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds Isn't that against the law in America? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Canada is by far a more secular country than America. Less Christians, less bible believers etc etc. Yet it is a safer, kinder, gentler place. Does being a Christian nation automatically makes one more intolerant? South Africa was and is a Christian nation. At one point they had apartheid and much violence and injustice. Then society changed radically and the people in power ushered in national reconciliation and forgiveness. Both were expressions of Christian heritage and thought. My brother spent 5 years doing medical research in Boston and acquired a lot of American friends. They visit occasionally and here are just some samples of things that surprised them. -seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds -the amount of mix couples -actual phone books in phone booths -very few ghettos and abandoned houses. Does being a Christian nation automatically means we have a mindset that divides people into racial and economic categories? When I watch the Olympics, I see that the American team is one of the most racially mixed and that always makes me very happy. It is God's will that, as far as it is possible, we live at peace with one another. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada And I thought the USA was a Godless country. Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDT CBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill Whatcott CBC file photo In 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as sodomites and called same-sex relationships filthy. One of the flyers said: Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children! Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott (Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself, the tribunal decision said. He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family. Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group, he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
Someone has a real low opinion of America. Golly gee whiz lets make sure our kids don't play with those neighbor kids. You know who. My brother spent 5 years doing medical research in Boston and acquired a lot of American friends. They visit occasionally and here are just some samples of things that surprised them. -seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds -the amount of mix couples -actual phone books in phone booths -very few ghettos and abandoned houses. Maybe that is going on in Boston someone better head up there and find out right away! Some body start a society for the protection of well stocked phone booths! ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Golly, Ive never seen that happen here! (Only all over the place, including my own neighborhood.) Do we still have phone booths in AmericaI thought they went out with the dark ages? And how about all those abandoned igloos in Canada? J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:12 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada CW seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds Isn't that against the law in America? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Canada is by far a more secular country than America. Less Christians, less bible believers etc etc. Yet it is a safer, kinder, gentler place. Does being a Christian nation automatically makes one more intolerant? South Africa was and is a Christian nation. At one point they had apartheid and much violence and injustice. Then society changed radically and the people in power ushered in national reconciliation and forgiveness. Both were expressions of Christian heritage and thought. My brother spent 5 years doing medical research in Boston and acquired a lot of American friends. They visit occasionally and here are just some samples of things that surprised them. -seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds -the amount of mix couples -actual phone books in phone booths -very few ghettos and abandoned houses. Does being a Christian nation automatically means we have a mindset that divides people into racial and economic categories? When I watch the Olympics, I see that the American team is one of the most racially mixed and that always makes me very happy. It is God's will that, as far as it is possible, we live at peace with one another. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill WhatcottCBC file photo In 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail
[TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!---BeginMessage--- Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. ---End Message---
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
And I thought the USA was a Godless country. Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDT CBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill Whatcott CBC file photo In 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott (Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment.
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
$17,000 fine for handing out literature? The PC crowd is very INTOLERANT even of words! But to hear them talk that is a different story, they love to tell you how open they are!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
Canada is by far a more secular country than America. Less Christians, less bible believers etc etc. Yet it is a safer, kinder, gentler place. Does being a Christian nation automatically makes one more intolerant? South Africa was and is a Christian nation. At one point they had apartheid and much violence and injustice. Then society changed radically and the people in power ushered in national reconciliation and forgiveness. Both were expressions of Christian heritage and thought. My brother spent 5 years doing medical research in Boston and acquired a lot of American friends. They visit occasionally and here are just some samples of things that surprised them. -seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds -the amount of mix couples -actual phone books in phone booths -very few ghettos and abandoned houses. Does being a Christian nation automatically means we have a mindset that divides people into racial and economic categories? When I watch the Olympics, I see that the American team is one of the most racially mixed and that always makes me very happy. It is God's will that, as far as it is possible, we live at peace with one another. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment.
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
The PC crowd has no tolerance for hate literature. No ACLU in Canada, remember. Either the Evangelist will choose fines and jail (and jail is frequent in some countries like China) or he will find other ways to bring the gospel to the people. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada $17,000 fine for handing out literature? The PC crowd is very INTOLERANT even of words! But to hear them talk that is a different story, they love to tell you how open they are!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
CW seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds Isn't that against the law in America? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Canada is by far a more secular country than America. Less Christians, less bible believers etc etc. Yet it is a safer, kinder, gentler place. Does being a Christian nation automatically makes one more intolerant? South Africa was and is a Christian nation. At one point they had apartheid and much violence and injustice. Then society changed radically and the people in power ushered in national reconciliation and forgiveness. Both were expressions of Christian heritage and thought. My brother spent 5 years doing medical research in Boston and acquired a lot of American friends. They visit occasionally and here are just some samples of things that surprised them. -seeing children of various races playing together in school yards and playgrounds -the amount of mix couples -actual phone books in phone booths -very few ghettos and abandoned houses. Does being a Christian nation automatically means we have a mindset that divides people into racial and economic categories? When I watch the Olympics, I see that the American team is one of the most racially mixed and that always makes me very happy. It is God's will that, as far as it is possible, we live at peace with one another. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada
CW other ways to bring the gospel to the people. Like your puppet ministry at church? Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The PC crowd has no tolerance for hate literature. No ACLU in Canada, remember. Either the Evangelist will choose fines and jail (and jail is frequent in some countries like China) or he will find other ways to bring the gospel to the people. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TRUTH TALK Most Dangerous man in Canada $17,000 fine for handing out literature? The PC crowd is very INTOLERANT even of words! But to hear them talk that is a different story, they love to tell you how open they are!Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I thought the USA was a Godless country.Kevin Deegan wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out! Subject: CBC News on Bill Whatcott From: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:32:46 -0600 To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Whatcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatcott ordered to stop anti-gay flyers Last Updated May 13 2005 09:02 AM CDTCBC News REGINA A Saskatchewan human rights tribunal has ruled a former Regina man incited hatred against gays and lesbians and has ordered him to pay more than $17,000. Bill WhatcottCBC file photoIn 2002, four people filed complaints against Bill Whatcott and a group called the Christian Truth Activists. They objected to pamphlets distributed in Regina and Saskatoon that referred to homosexual men as "sodomites" and called same-sex relationships "filthy". One of the flyers said: "Sodomites are 430 times more likely to acquire AIDS and three times more likely to sexually abuse children!" Brendan Wallace, one of the complainants, testified in 2002 he was angry and fearful as a result of receiving the material at his home. READ THE DECISION Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission Tribunal: Wallace et al vs. Whatcott(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites. Link will open in new window) "Initially he thought it was a personal attack on his partner and himself," the tribunal decision said. "He related some of his life experiences as a gay man and wondered how others would react, including members of his own family." Whatcott has been ordered to pay $17,500 to Wallace and the three other complainants for hurt feelings and loss of dignity and self-respect. And the tribunal has ruled that Whatcott and his group can no longer distribute material that promotes hatred against people because of their sexual orientation. On Thursday, Wallace said he was pleased the tribunal agreed spreading this kind of material is wrong, but he doubts Whatcott's group will stop. "Only two weeks ago, we received some similar hate mail distributed to our house from the same man and the same group," he said. Whatcott could not be reached for comment. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Re: [TruthTalk] [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen
Caroline Wong wrote: All love, life and goodness in this world comes from God. Jesus himself asked the rich young ruler why he called Him good when only God is good. The elder in charge of the prayer ministry at our church came to a realization that our love is given to us by God and we love Him and others out of that resource. He told me that people need to be able to receive love in order to give it. It was such a revelation to him that he wrote it down and is takingthe men's prayergroup in that direction. And these men aren't soft on sin at all! There aremany testimonies of deep confession and repentance at the meetings he lead, stories of men breaking before the Lord and changing forever. The pastors joke about needing to post a warning label on our cell group pamphlet. This is the verse we put on the church website: We love because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19 Love, Caroline Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense. Terry
[TruthTalk] [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen
All love, life and goodness in this world comes from God. Jesus himself asked the rich young ruler why he called Him good when only God is good. The elder in charge of the prayer ministry at our church came to a realization that our love is given to us by God and we love Him and others out of that resource. He told me that people need to be able to receive love in order to give it. It was such a revelation to him that he wrote it down and is takingthe men's prayergroup in that direction. And these men aren't soft on sin at all! There aremany testimonies of deep confession and repentance at the meetings he lead, stories of men breaking before the Lord and changing forever. The pastors joke about needing to post a warning label on our cell group pamphlet. This is the verse we put on the church website: We love because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19 Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen Caroline Wong wrote: Terry wrote:I am not certain what the creation had to do with it. The delimma is: which comes first? Righteousness or love? Are you love God because you are righteous, or are you righteous because you love God? IMHO 1) God loves us 2) He clothes us with Christ's righteousness 3) He seats us in Christ in the heavenly realms in communion with Him 4) Out of the overflow of His love in our inner being, we live our lives. I don't have any love or righteousness. It is all His. Love CarolinePlease explain number four.Thank you,Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth talk or Relative talk?
http://answers.org/apologetics/relativism.html Protagoras: Truth is relative. It is only a matter of opinion. Socrates: You mean that truth is mere subjective opinion? Protagoras: Exactly. What is true for you is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Truth is subjective. Socrates: Do you really mean that? That my opinion is true by virtue of its being my opinion? Protagoras: Indeed I do. Scorates: My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you, Mr. Protagoras, are absolutely in error. Since this is my opinion, then you must grant that it is true according to your philosophy. Protagoras: You are quite correct, Socrates. If Truth is relative then there really is not any Truth at all! Gravity applies to ALL people so do God's spiritual laws__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed by one of the greats
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:24:16 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To the Enlighteded: jt: I consider myself a believer, so that makes me"enlightened, right?"JD: If no one cometh to Christ except the Father draw him - then Christ is NOT the "draw." Something else is going on. jt: Right. Redemption is the draw, but first we must agree that we are"fallen" and by nature "children of wrath" unable to stand in God's presence. JD: If Philip 2:12,13 (work out your own salvation for it is God at work within you both to will and to do His good pleasure) is part of the answer to the question embedded in the "draw," perhaps the Spirit of God is involved in the life and goings on of all mankind. jt: Let's get things in perspective here. Working out their own salvation is impossible for those who are not in the race.Paul wrote this letter to the "ecclesia" (called out ones) or Churchat Philippiso this conjecture is out of the ballpark and will not fly because: 1.The world can not receive the Holy Spirit (John 14:17) 2. Jesus chooses his disciples and calls them "out of this world" (John 15:19) 3. The Kingdom Jesus calls us to is NOT of this world (John 18:36) JD: Response, then, to this Divine Influence, would be called "repentance" on one occasion, "confession" on another, "benevolent caring" on another, the expense of one's self for the hungry on yet another, jt: The Holy Spirit is more than a "divine influence" John, He is a person and the third member of the Godhead. The above are not the same nor are they interactive ie: 1. Repentance without regret involves making a conscious decision to stop and change direction which is impossible to do unconsciously. 2. Confession involves what we speak out of our mouths; it is saying the same thing as God says about ourselves and others. 3. Benevolent caring is an aspect of LOVE which holds it all together. Faith works by love. and doing works of the law apart from actual knowledge of the law . in short, the function of faith whether knowingly or not (as in the case of the Gentile in Romans 2). jt: I think we've discussed this before. Romans 2 is all about the condition of the heart and circumcision being inward rather than outward. It is a spiritual impossibilityfor the unregenerate Gentile who does not know the lawof Moses to fulfill the same outside of Christ just as it is impossible for a Carnal Christian to fulfill the law through Christ. Love fulfills the law. Unsaved Gentiles are not walking in love and neither are self centered Carnal Christians or unregenerate circumcised Jews. JD: Because of the cross, Jesus dying for the whole world (all of mankind, i.e. The Dance), this response(s) demonstrates the function of faith (works) and has a vital role to play as God considers the destiny of all and each of mankind. jt: You may call me legalistic John - I call it good sense "The Dance" is nowhere to be found in scripture. It is a 4th Century concoction; how does a Godhead who is ONE get in a dance with each other? Like how would your nose dance with your big toe?Objections? Acts 2:38 seems to suggest that if we repent and are baptized, we will, then, receive the Holy Spirit. Mankind individually would not have the Spirit unless and until a certain response that "gets us saved" is committed to. But does the command in Acts 2:38 counter the idea of a continuing Presence in each of mankind? jt: Clearly states rather than "seems to suggest" John and yes it does counter the idea that everyone has "God living inside them" Acts 2:38 has lots of company ie: 1. The arrival of the Promise on the day of Pentecost - received only by disciples (Acts 2:4) 2. Holy Ghost is given by God "to all those who obey Him" (Acts 5:32 3. Not everyone obeys the gospel (Romans 10:16) 4. Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Hebrews 5:9) JD: What about Eph 5:18,19,20 makes it clear that Infilling of the Spirit is a repeated possibility based upon a commitment to a specific function of faith. "Be ye filled with the Spirit as you " could be considered a first time event by some when, in fact, it speaks of a repeated infilling. jt: Or "stay" that is keep being filled with the spirit speaking to yourself with Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord. Again this is written to the "called out ones" or the Church at Ephesus so it is assumed they have received the Holy Spirit at conversion from their former paganism to Christ.Could it be that Acts 2:38 is not speaking of a first time occurrence for the same reasons that Eph 5 is not. That those in Acts 2 are responding to the inward motivations of God as described in Philip 2. That anytime we do what is right, we are in partnership with God. That salvation is ours to loose as we consider the "right thing to do" and decide against it? Just asking. JD
Re: [TruthTalk] truth about Mormons--finally
[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [LDS]are recruited by the FBI, the State Department and every police department in the country because they are trustworthy. First off you changed what I was referring to. I was talking about old MEN MARRYING 14 YEAR OLDS in Utah. Why they do not change the law Why they do not do anything about the thousands of OLD PERVERTS in the State even in Downtown Salt lake. It is not about POLYGAMY. The older they get the younger they like thyem just like Joe must be some kind of PERVERT Spirit. http://www.polygamy.org/faq.shtml I was also talking about why a LDS dominated society has so much crime suicide murder rape and other violence against women. With a population of up to 80% LDS this should not be so. Instead of an answer we get But we have the best Church Police force in the world! If they are so great why can't they find all those pedophiles in your church BEFORE they do their harm? Why can't they find the Murderous Prophets that come out of the Church such as the Lafferties, Brian David Mitchels and on and on Mark Hackings before they kill their wives Marriage is forever you know; is she stuck with mark forever, who will call her out of the grave? We have not even scratched the surface even BYU has a PERVERT Football team! Church Security personel are recruited by the Government because no other church has such a large TRAINED secret police force. Why such a well regulated MILITIA? In a Church? They look like secret service They use the tools of secret service They can identify any"ANTI" by name in 24 hours after they take your pictureThey track people around town away from the Temple They keep records and "research" on file about "ANTIS" They have a secret website with names, occupation, location of "ANTIS" for quick dissemination to others. How do they "learn" of private details of "ANTIS" that live thousands of miles away. What is the purpose of this "RESEARCH"? They act like secret police. They even keep these kind of records on their own people! Why does a church need to Investigate it's members and foes alike? Why does a CHURCH need such a large secret police force? What is with all the recording (Hidden Video Audio) equipment? What is with the 15 foot wall all around the FORTRESS, I mean Temple? Be careful that you do not become labeled a ANTI someday. Yes they FOLLOW directions. But do they know right from wrong? Why did they assault a Peaceful Southern Baptist Reverand handing out literature on a PUBLIC SIDEWALK? Only Church I know that has bouncers at the gates! Look around this is CULTic behavior! On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:28:23 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || The Violence against women in this MALELDS culture is very troubling!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [LDS]are recruited by the FBI, the State Department and every police department in the country because they are trustworthy. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed by one of the greats
To the Enlighteded: If no one cometh to Christ except the Father draw him - then Christ is NOT the "draw." Something else is going on. If Philip 2:12,13 (work out your own salvation for it is God at work within you both to will and to do His good pleasure) is part of the answer to the question embedded in the "draw," perhaps the Spirit of God is involved in the life and goings on of all mankind. Response, then, to this Divine Influence, would be called "repentance" on one occasion, "confession" on another, "benevolent caring" on another, the expense of one's self for the hungry on yet another, and doing works of the law apart from actual knowledge of the law . in short, the function of faith whether knowingly or not (as in the case of the Gentile in Romans 2). Because of the cross, Jesus dying for the whole world (all of mankind, i.e. The Dance), this response(s) demonstrates the function of faith (works) and has a vital role to play as God considers the destiny of all and each of mankind. Objections? Acts 2:38 seems to suggest that if we repent and are baptized, we will, then, receive the Holy Spirit. Mankind individually would not have the Spirit unless and until a certain response that "gets us saved" is committed to. But does the command in Acts 2:38 counter the idea of a continuing Presence in each of mankind? What about Eph 5:18,19,20 makes it clear that Infilling of the Spirit is a repeated possibility based upon a commitment to a specific function of faith. "Be ye filled with the Spirit as you " could be considered a first time event by some when, in fact, it speaks of a repeated infilling. Could it be that Acts 2:38 is not speaking of a first time occurrence for the same reasons that Eph 5 is not. That those in Acts 2 are responding to the inward motivations of God as described in Philip 2. That anytime we do what is right, we are in partnership with God. That salvation is ours to loose as we consider the "right thing to do" and decide against it? Just asking JD
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed by one of the greats
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To the Enlighteded: If no one cometh to Christ except the Father draw him - then Christ is NOT the draw. Something else is going on. If Philip 2:12,13 (work out your own salvation for it is God at work within you both to will and to do His good pleasure) is part of the answer to the question embedded in the draw, perhaps the Spirit of God is involved in the life and goings on of all mankind. Response, then, to this Divine Influence, would be called repentance on one occasion, confession on another, benevolent caring on another, the expense of one's self for the hungry on yet another, and doing works of the law apart from actual knowledge of the law . in short, the function of faith whether knowingly or not (as in the case of the Gentile in Romans 2). Because of the cross, Jesus dying for the whole world (all of mankind, i.e. The Dance), this response(s) demonstrates the function of faith (works) and has a vital role to play as God considers the destiny of all and each of mankind. Objections? Acts 2:38 seems to suggest that if we repent and are baptized, we will, then, receive the Holy Spirit. Mankind individually would not have the Spirit unless and until a certain response that gets us saved is committed to. But does the command in Acts 2:38 counter the idea of a continuing Presence in each of mankind? What about Eph 5:18,19,20 makes it clear that Infilling of the Spirit is a repeated possibility based upon a commitment to a specific function of faith. Be ye filled with the Spirit as you could be considered a first time event by some when, in fact, it speaks of a repeated infilling. Could it be that Acts 2:38 is not speaking of a first time occurrence for the same reasons that Eph 5 is not. That those in Acts 2 are responding to the inward motivations of God as described in Philip 2. That anytime we do what is right, we are in partnership with God. That salvation is ours to loose as we consider the right thing to do and decide against it? Just asking JD === Brother John, I believe that Jesus answered your question with one phrase,FEW there be that find it. That, to me, indicates that it is not something everyone has to lose. It is something a few find. I just take Him at His word. I think He means it. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed by one of the greats
John wrote Objections? Acts 2:38 seems to suggest that if we repent and are baptized, we will, then, receive the Holy Spirit. Mankind individually would not have the Spirit unless and until a certain response that "gets us saved" is committed to. Acts 2.38 -- "Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Hey John, If you will allow the word eis to be translated the way that it is on hundreds of times (perhapsover one thousand times) in Scripture, you will discover that we are not repenting and getting baptized"for" the remission of sins, but "into" the remission of sins. Repentance and baptism are responses to that which has already been provided in Christ. The "gets us saved" part is already a reality in the finished work of our Savior. I do agree with you, however, that it is upon believing (which in the context of 2.38 is called repentance) in Jesus Christ that we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Bill - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed by one of the greats To the Enlighteded:If no one cometh to Christ except the Father draw him - then Christ is NOT the "draw." Something else is going on. If Philip 2:12,13 (work out your own salvation for it is God at work within you both to will and to do His good pleasure) is part of the answer to the question embedded in the "draw," perhaps the Spirit of God is involved in the life and goings on of all mankind. Response, then, to this Divine Influence, would be called "repentance" on one occasion, "confession" on another, "benevolent caring" on another, the expense of one's self for the hungry on yet another, and doing works of the law apart from actual knowledge of the law . in short, the function of faith whether knowingly or not (as in the case of the Gentile in Romans 2). Because of the cross, Jesus dying for the whole world (all of mankind, i.e. The Dance), this response(s) demonstrates the function of faith (works) and has a vital role to play as God considers the destiny of all and each of mankind. Objections? Acts 2:38 seems to suggest that if we repent and are baptized, we will, then, receive the Holy Spirit. Mankind individually would not have the Spirit unless and until a certain response that "gets us saved" is committed to. But does the command in Acts 2:38 counter the idea of a continuing Presence in each of mankind? What about Eph 5:18,19,20 makes it clear that Infilling of the Spirit is a repeated possibility based upon a commitment to a specific function of faith. "Be ye filled with the Spirit as you " could be considered a first time event by some when, in fact, it speaks of a repeated infilling. Could it be that Acts 2:38 is not speaking of a first time occurrence for the same reasons that Eph 5 is not. That those in Acts 2 are responding to the inward motivations of God as described in Philip 2. That anytime we do what is right, we are in partnership with God. That salvation is ours to loose as we consider the "right thing to do" and decide against it? Just askingJD
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed by one of the greats
John wrote: I have noticed over the years --- some 41 years of ministry I might add and proudly so, that those who claim sinless perfectionism by the power of the Indwelling are the very one's who exhibit the most severe of sin problems. John, who specifically are you talking about when you talk about those who claim sinless perfectionism? Although I have been erroneously accused of this on the list, you know that I have clarified that this label does not apply to my position. I don't think there is anyone on this list that uses this label, so I can only assume that you have someone in mind that is not in this forum. Can you tell us a little more about these sinless perfectionists you know? I'm intrigued by your comment because the sinless perfectionists I have known do not believe in the power of the Indwelling as being how a person overcomes sin. All of the sinful perfectionists in history that I have read about also do not believe in this power of the Indwelling being necessary. They are Pelagianists who do not believe in the sinful nature of man. They believe that man simply chooses to do what is right. Do you know some sinful perfectionists that believe in sinless perfectionism by the power of the Indwelling? Who are they? Where do they live? Tell us more about their beliefs. Do any of them have a web site or articles that we can read? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] truth about Mormons--finally
Of course they put on the Dog Pony Show Why is there such a DARK SIDE though? see links With OLD men marring 14 year olds? Utah which is predominately MORMON shows troubling statistics instead of Good The Violence against women in this MALE centered LDS culture is very troubling!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An Editorial on MormonsPaul AllenSanta Clarita, CA newspaper Editor:I have heard and seen enough! I have lived in the West all my life. I have worked around them. They have worked for me and I for them. When I was young, I dated their daughters. When I got married they came to my wedding.Now that I have daughters of my own, some of their boys have dated my daughters. I would be privileged if one of them were to be my son-in-law. I'm talking about the Mormons.They are some of the most honest, hard-working people I have ever known.They are spiritual, probably more than most other so-called religious people I have encountered. They study the Bible and teach from it as much as any Christian church ever has. They serve their religion without pay in every conceivable capacity. None of their leaders, teachers, counselors, Bishops or music directors receive one dime for the hours of labor they put in. The Mormons have a non-paid ministry - a fact not generally known.I have heard many times from the pulpits of others how evil and non-Christian they are and that they will not go to heaven. I decided recently to attend one of their services near my home to see for myself. What a surprise! What I heard and saw was just the opposite from what the religious ministers of the day were telling me. I found a very simple service with no fanfare. I found a people with a great sense of humor and a well-balanced spiritual side. There was no loud music. Just a simple service, with the members themselves giving the several short sermons. They urge their youth to be morally clean and live a good life.They teach the gospel of Christ, as they understand it. The name of their church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Does that sound like a non-Christian church to you? I asked them many questions about what they teach and why. I got answers that in most cases were from the New Testament. Their ideas and doctrines did not seem too far fetched for my understanding. When I read their "Book of Mormon" I was also very surprised to find just the opposite from what I had been told I would find.Then I went to another church's pastor to ask him some of the same questions about doctrine. To my surprise, when he found out that I was in some way investigating the Mormons, he became hostile. He referred to them as a non-Christian cult. I received what sounded to me like evil propaganda against those people. He stated bluntly that they were not Christian and that they did not fit into the Christian mold. He also told me that they don't really believe the Bible. He gave me a pile of anti-Mormon literature. He began to rant that the Mormons were not telling me the truth about what they stand for. He didn't want to hear anything good about them. At first I was surprised and then again, I wasn't. I began to wonder.I have never known of a cult that supports the Boy Scouts of America.According to the Boy Scouts, over a third of all the Boy Scout troops in the United States are Mormon. What cult do you know of that has a welfare system second to none in this country? They have farms, canneries and cattle ranches to help take care of the unfortunate ones who might be down and out and in need of a little help The Mormon Church has donated millions to welfare causes around the world without a word of credit. They have donated thousands to help re-build Baptist churches that were burned a few years ago. They have donated tons of medical supplies to countries ravaged by earthquakes. You never see them on TV begging for money. What cult do you know of that instills in its members to obey the law, pay their taxes, serve in the military if asked and be a good Christian by living high moral standards? Did you know that hundreds of thousands Mormon youth get up before high school starts in the morning to attend a religious training class? They have basketball and softball leagues and supervised youth dances every month. They are recruited by the FBI, the State Department and every police department in the country because they are trustworthy. They are taught not to drink nor take drugs. They are in the Secret Service - those who protect the President. They serve in high leadership positions from both parties in Congress and in the U.S. Senate, and have been governors of several states other than Utah. They serve with distinction and honor.If you have Mormons living near, you will probably find them to be your best friends and neighbors. They are Christians who try to live what they preach. They are not perfect and they are the first to admit this. I have known some of them who could not live their religion, just like
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth as viewed by one of the greats
In a message dated 2/1/2005 5:34:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey John, If you will allow the word eis to be translated the way that it is on hundreds of times (perhaps over one thousand times) in Scripture, you will discover that we are not repenting and getting baptized "for" the remission of sins, but "into" the remission of sins. Absolutely. In fact, this word, even when translated with words other than "into" nearly always carries with whatever the translation, the nuance of movement "into." In Gal 3:27, we are immersed INTO Christ, and as a result, are putiing him "on." Repentance and baptism are responses to that which has already been provided in Christ. As you know -- I, at times, do not say what I mean to say. What you write beginning with "repentance and baptism ..." is exactly what I beleieve and is a part of my post I think? The "gets us saved" part is already a reality in the finished work of our Savior.And I hope that was somehow present in my statement, What I wrote was my way, at this point in time, of allowing for the biblical teaching of the universality of God's gift in Christ to be coupled with our response AS a function of faith. Where many see "repentance" as a "requirement," something that must be obeyed, the biblical message presents it (repentance, various acts of benevolence, contrition, and so many other "works") as that which springs from faith and a certain move of the God within. Perhaps I did not make this clear. I do agree with you, however, that it is upon believing (which in the context of 2.38 is called repentance) in Jesus Christ that we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Bill
