Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
NOITA (no offence intended to anyone - just made it
up - ps I managed to just pass beginner's grk about a 100 yrs ago) but, I'm with
DM on this one.
- Original Message -
From:
David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 18, 2006 08:34
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Wrong picture, John. Take insulting and malicious comments like
this private, please.
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:25
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Picture the format of a typical political cartoon. See
David Miller towering over a rather humble looking John
Smithson. David's eyes are narrow and his rather bushy
eyebrows have a devilish slant to them. A smile is on his face,
one which some would confuse with a snear. His hands are behind his
back --- clutching a large butcher knife dripping with the
fresh blood of a previous opponent as he speaks these
words:
"If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of
your church and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You
said you were a pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare
Church or some other fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something
that you were trying to communicate, then please clarify.
Thanks."
Get the picture?
jd
--
Original message -- From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > John wrote: > > Why
would you go to the trouble of checking > > me out ? What if
David decides that I need > > to be exposed and consults with
these leaders? > > Exposed for what? I don't see that there
is anything to expose. You said > that you were speaking as one in
leadership. You identified your gift as > one of being a pastor.
This created a curiosity in me to understand more of > your
leadership role in your church. Don't make more of it than that. If I
> did speak about you, John, you can be sure that I would only
speak of the > good which I find in you. It would be a sin to speak
evil of a brother in > Christ, or to gossip about him in a way that
would cast him in a negative > light. > > John wrote:
> > Please n ote my willingness to be open with > >
your questioning and your refusal to be equally > > so in
regards to a number of your claims over > > the past two years.
> > I'm not aware of my making any "claims" much less of
being uncooperative > concerning questions about such claims. Can
you tell me what you are > talking about? > > If you
are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church
> and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said
you were a > pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare
Church or some other > fellowship? If I am misunderstanding
something that you were trying to > communicate, then please
clarify. Thanks. > > David Miller. > >
-- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with
salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not
want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Wrong picture, John. Take insulting and malicious comments like this private, please. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Picture the format of a typical political cartoon. See David Miller towering over a rather humble looking John Smithson. David's eyes are narrow and his rather bushy eyebrows have a devilish slant to them. A smile is on his face, one which some would confuse with a snear. His hands are behind his back --- clutching a large butcher knife dripping with the fresh blood of a previous opponent as he speaks these words: "If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said you were a pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some other fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying to communicate, then please clarify. Thanks." Get the picture? jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > John wrote: > > Why would you go to the trouble of checking > > me out ? What if David decides that I need > > to be exposed and consults with these leaders? > > Exposed for what? I don't see that there is anything to expose. You said > that you were speaking as one in leadership. You identified your gift as > one of being a pastor. This created a curiosity in me to understand more of > your leadership role in your church. Don't make more of it than that. If I > did speak about you, John, you can be sure that I would only speak of the > good which I find in you. It would be a sin to speak evil of a brother in > Christ, or to gossip about him in a way that would cast him in a negative > light. > > John wrote: > > Please n ote my willingness to be open with > > your questioning and your refusal to be equally > > so in regards to a number of your claims over > > the past two years. > > I'm not aware of my making any "claims" much less of being uncooperative > concerning questions about such claims. Can you tell me what you are > talking about? > > If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church > and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said you were a > pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some other > fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying to > communicate, then please clarify. Thanks. > > David Miller. > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
David: Do you know the meaning of along with the origin of, 'cargo cults'? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 18, 2006 07:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding That is correct, John. The law gives details so that we can know what love is and what love is not. For example, some people say adultery is love. Do you know how many times I have heard that excuse? "They are in love" Well, the law says, no, they are not in love. They are in lust and they have broken their vows and commitments of love to someone else. The law says they deserve death for the act of adultery. Homoesexuality is a similar situation. Society says, "let those of the same gender marry and love one another, to be happy just like heterosexuals. They love one another." The law tells us, no, that is not love. Ultimately, the teaching of Christ helps us see that love is the standard by which all will be judged. Those who sin are not walking in love, while those who do not sin are walking in love. Now every person who commits sin becomes addicted to sin, so it is a real problem. Jesus came to resolve this problem of sin, so that we might become the righteousness of God. This means Jesus was manifested so that we would no longer walk in sin but walk in love. It is in this way that it might be said that those who believe in Jesus Christ receive eternal life. Withtout this life changing experience, who Jesus is becomes only a philosophy, and one's philosophy of who Jesus is, even if they get that philosophy right, will not save them. It all comes down to holiness and living like Jesus lived. The gospel is primarily pragmatic rather than ideological. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding In what way does the Law unravel the complications of the "sin" concept? I see the law giving definition to sin and , thus, allowing us to think in terms of "transgression" There are humdreds (perhaps) of ways to sin, but in the face of stated law, there is only one transgression per imperative. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The concept of sin can get very complicated, hence the reason for the law. However, compared to the infinite God and the mystery of God in the flesh, it is child's play. God began revealing himself with the law and sin for good reason. It provides the foundation for understanding heavenly things. The bottom line is that even if you claim to understand all the mystery of Christ, if you testify that you are still addicted to sin, then Christ has profited you nothing. Salvation does not come through understanding Christ. Salvation comes from a relationship with the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Our understanding of him will follow naturally from that. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Perhaps Lance has a good point, David. Consider the biblical record. Does it begin with Christ or sin? And sin, defined and demonstrated , displays what volume of content compared to that of "Christ?" Surely the answer is "much more!" Anyway, I am not sure how we go about discussing one without the other. If you think "sin" is an easily understood concept, read "The Many Faces of Evil" by Feinberg or any number of books discussing this subject. Extremely complicated. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you have it ...backwards? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" To: Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? > > Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not > sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of > sin, > however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is > the > only criteria of God's judgment. When we al l stand before Jesus > Christ, > the > Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we > have > done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our > understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important > than > our philosop
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
That is correct, John. The law gives details so that we can know what love is and what love is not. For example, some people say adultery is love. Do you know how many times I have heard that excuse? "They are in love" Well, the law says, no, they are not in love. They are in lust and they have broken their vows and commitments of love to someone else. The law says they deserve death for the act of adultery. Homoesexuality is a similar situation. Society says, "let those of the same gender marry and love one another, to be happy just like heterosexuals. They love one another." The law tells us, no, that is not love. Ultimately, the teaching of Christ helps us see that love is the standard by which all will be judged. Those who sin are not walking in love, while those who do not sin are walking in love. Now every person who commits sin becomes addicted to sin, so it is a real problem. Jesus came to resolve this problem of sin, so that we might become the righteousness of God. This means Jesus was manifested so that we would no longer walk in sin but walk in love. It is in this way that it might be said that those who believe in Jesus Christ receive eternal life. Withtout this life changing experience, who Jesus is becomes only a philosophy, and one's philosophy of who Jesus is, even if they get that philosophy right, will not save them. It all comes down to holiness and living like Jesus lived. The gospel is primarily pragmatic rather than ideological. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding In what way does the Law unravel the complications of the "sin" concept? I see the law giving definition to sin and , thus, allowing us to think in terms of "transgression" There are humdreds (perhaps) of ways to sin, but in the face of stated law, there is only one transgression per imperative. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The concept of sin can get very complicated, hence the reason for the law. However, compared to the infinite God and the mystery of God in the flesh, it is child's play. God began revealing himself with the law and sin for good reason. It provides the foundation for understanding heavenly things. The bottom line is that even if you claim to understand all the mystery of Christ, if you testify that you are still addicted to sin, then Christ has profited you nothing. Salvation does not come through understanding Christ. Salvation comes from a relationship with the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Our understanding of him will follow naturally from that. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Perhaps Lance has a good point, David. Consider the biblical record. Does it begin with Christ or sin? And sin, defined and demonstrated , displays what volume of content compared to that of "Christ?" Surely the answer is "much more!" Anyway, I am not sure how we go about discussing one without the other. If you think "sin" is an easily understood concept, read "The Many Faces of Evil" by Feinberg or any number of books discussing this subject. Extremely complicated. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is > determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that > you > have it ...backwards? > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" > To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? > > > > Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not > > sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of sin, > > however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is > > the > > only criteria of God's judgment. When we al l stand before Jesus Christ, > > the > > Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we > > have > > done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our > > understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than > > our philosophy of the nature of Christ. > > > > David Miller. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: TruthTalk@m
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Picture the format of a typical political cartoon. See David Miller towering over a rather humble looking John Smithson. David's eyes are narrow and his rather bushy eyebrows have a devilish slant to them. A smile is on his face, one which some would confuse with a snear. His hands are behind his back --- clutching a large butcher knife dripping with the fresh blood of a previous opponent as he speaks these words: "If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said you were a pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some other fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying to communicate, then please clarify. Thanks." Get the picture? jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > John wrote: > > Why would you go to the trouble of checking > > me out ? What if David decides that I need > > to be exposed and consults with these leaders? > > Exposed for what? I don't see that there is anything to expose. You said > that you were speaking as one in leadership. You identified your gift as > one of being a pastor. This created a curiosity in me to understand more of > your leadership role in your church. Don't make more of it than that. If I > did speak about you, John, you can be sure that I would only speak of the > good which I find in you. It would be a sin to speak evil of a brother in > Christ, or to gossip about him in a way that would cast him in a negative > light. > > John wrote: > > Please n ote my willingness to be open with > > your questioning and your refusal to be equally > > so in regards to a number of your claims over > > the past two years. > > I'm not aware of my making any "claims" much less of being uncooperative > concerning questions about such claims. Can you tell me what you are > talking about? > > If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church > and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said you were a > pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some other > fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying to > communicate, then please clarify. Thanks. > > David Miller. > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Huh? YOU apparently see this as an understandable response. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 17, 2006 10:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Lance wrote: ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you have it ...backwards? Christ certainly is more important, but our understanding of him grows and grows. I was talking about foundations, in the same way that Jesus was in the following passage: John 3:12 (12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? If a person claims to understand all the mysteries of heaven and even Christ himself, yet he has not love (continues to sin), he is nothing. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
David, we are not talking about "curiosity." We are talking about grossly inappropriate and even deceitful behavior. Leave it alone. Stick to discussion issues and leave personal BS endeavors alone. Your closing sentences are deceptive AT BEST, David. There is nothing that I have said about my service as pastor that would cause you to believe it necesssary to stick your nose into my life. Why would you think my credentials as pastor are with Four Square? And why would your curiosity cause you to think that you should take time out of your sales day to research my background in this regard and even contemplate calling some of these individuals !! What were you going to ask or say to them? Since it is about me, I think that I should be the first to know. or is this something that fundies simply do not believe ? I would argue that I have been more forthright and open, in this forum, that anyone else. You certainly have not been such. Many claims -- little to no evidence. And when asked for specifics -- more talk and no evidence. Now, do not come bac k with your typical host of challenging questions? I do not care about your life and whether or not you are factual in your presentation. I did make a big deal about your PhD thing, but that was because you finally got me angry with your constant put downs about my ability to write and my education. Turns out you didn't have one. but you did appear before a PhD review committee, right? And one of those porfessors, what was his name again, ruled against you because of your creationist views. You want to do tit for tat. ... best be careful , you just might get your tat in a wringer. I became a pastor, David, when you were four years old. Once a pastor -- always a pastor. But I am "papered" with an evangelistic association, as well. My best work is with the Fairbanks Avenue Fellowship, Their number is 559- 875-1465. Give tham a call. You might recognize the number BECAUSE IT IS MINE!! So move on John -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > JD wrote: > > It's just surprising to realize that David took > > time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and > > software sales to research as much as posible > > his old buddy, John Smithson. > > LOL. John, I did not research "as much as possible" or I would have made > phone calls and found out a whole lot more. Then I would have REALLY > dazzled somebody. As it is, when you mentioned Sanger, it only took me a > few minutes to look up the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church. > I'm just not sure if that is your actual church. I was not real comfortable > calling him without talking to you first. I was not sure how you would feel > about that. Do you attend this church, or another one in the Fresno area? > You were the one who brought up your speaking from a leadership position, > hence my curiosity. > > David Miller. > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
In what way does the Law unravel the complications of the "sin" concept? I see the law giving definition to sin and , thus, allowing us to think in terms of "transgression" There are humdreds (perhaps) of ways to sin, but in the face of stated law, there is only one transgression per imperative. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The concept of sin can get very complicated, hence the reason for the law. However, compared to the infinite God and the mystery of God in the flesh, it is child's play. God began revealing himself with the law and sin for good reason. It provides the foundation for understanding heavenly things. The bottom line is that even if you claim to understand all the mystery of Christ, if you testify that you are still addicted to sin, then Christ has profited you nothing. Salvation does not come through understanding Christ. Salvation comes from a relationship with the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Our understanding of him will follow naturally from that. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Perhaps Lance has a good point, David. Consider the biblical record. Does it begin with Christ or sin? And sin, defined and demonstrated , displays what volume of content compared to that of "Christ?" Surely the answer is "much more!" Anyway, I am not sure how we go about discussing one without the other. If you think "sin" is an easily understood concept, read "The Many Faces of Evil" by Feinberg or any number of books discussing this subject. Extremely complicated. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is > determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you > have it ...backwards? > - Original Message ----- > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? > > > > Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not > > sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of sin, > > however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is > > the > > only criteria of God's judgment. When we al l stand before Jesus Christ, > > the > > Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we > > have > > done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our > > understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than > > our philosophy of the nature of Christ. > > > > David Miller. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. > > Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody > > else > > is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems > > defective. DM > > > > I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of > > Christological > > didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your > > Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that > > circumstance. > > David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we > > cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but > > myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than > > David !! What think ye? > > > > jd > > > > > > > > -- Original message -- > > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > >> Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have > >> been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a > >> similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry ab o ut it too > >> much. > >> > >> For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way > >> beyond > >> that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to > >> 'knowing' in
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Say it to me one more time, David, please. I, David Miller a. do not practice sin (have no besetting sin(s) b. have days, weeks, months wherein I do not sin in thought, word or deed whatsoever. Does the foregoing reflect the reality of your life? thanks, Lance - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 17, 2006 10:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Lance wrote: ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you have it ...backwards? Christ certainly is more important, but our understanding of him grows and grows. I was talking about foundations, in the same way that Jesus was in the following passage: John 3:12 (12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? If a person claims to understand all the mysteries of heaven and even Christ himself, yet he has not love (continues to sin), he is nothing. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
John wrote: > Why would you go to the trouble of checking > me out ? What if David decides that I need > to be exposed and consults with these leaders? Exposed for what? I don't see that there is anything to expose. You said that you were speaking as one in leadership. You identified your gift as one of being a pastor. This created a curiosity in me to understand more of your leadership role in your church. Don't make more of it than that. If I did speak about you, John, you can be sure that I would only speak of the good which I find in you. It would be a sin to speak evil of a brother in Christ, or to gossip about him in a way that would cast him in a negative light. John wrote: > Please note my willingness to be open with > your questioning and your refusal to be equally > so in regards to a number of your claims over > the past two years. I'm not aware of my making any "claims" much less of being uncooperative concerning questions about such claims. Can you tell me what you are talking about? If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said you were a pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some other fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying to communicate, then please clarify. Thanks. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
JD wrote: > It's just surprising to realize that David took > time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and > software sales to research as much as posible > his old buddy, John Smithson. LOL. John, I did not research "as much as possible" or I would have made phone calls and found out a whole lot more. Then I would have REALLY dazzled somebody. As it is, when you mentioned Sanger, it only took me a few minutes to look up the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church. I'm just not sure if that is your actual church. I was not real comfortable calling him without talking to you first. I was not sure how you would feel about that. Do you attend this church, or another one in the Fresno area? You were the one who brought up your speaking from a leadership position, hence my curiosity. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
The concept of sin can get very complicated, hence the reason for the law. However, compared to the infinite God and the mystery of God in the flesh, it is child's play. God began revealing himself with the law and sin for good reason. It provides the foundation for understanding heavenly things. The bottom line is that even if you claim to understand all the mystery of Christ, if you testify that you are still addicted to sin, then Christ has profited you nothing. Salvation does not come through understanding Christ. Salvation comes from a relationship with the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Our understanding of him will follow naturally from that. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Perhaps Lance has a good point, David. Consider the biblical record. Does it begin with Christ or sin? And sin, defined and demonstrated , displays what volume of content compared to that of "Christ?" Surely the answer is "much more!" Anyway, I am not sure how we go about discussing one without the other. If you think "sin" is an easily understood concept, read "The Many Faces of Evil" by Feinberg or any number of books discussing this subject. Extremely complicated. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is > determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you > have it ...backwards? > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? > > > > Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not > > sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of sin, > > however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is > > the > > only criteria of God's judgment. When we al l stand before Jesus Christ, > > the > > Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we > > have > > done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our > > understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than > > our philosophy of the nature of Christ. > > > > David Miller. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. > > Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody > > else > > is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems > > defective. DM > > > > I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of > > Christological > > didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your > > Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that > > circumstance. > > David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we > > cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but > > myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than > > David !! What think ye? > > > > jd > > > > > > > > -- Original message -- > > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > >> Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have > >> been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a > >> similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry abo ut it too > >> much. > >> > >> For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way > >> beyond > >> that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to > >> 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called > >> the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Lance wrote: > ONE WAY of thinking about this: > Who He is takes priority over and, > is determinative of, all other considerations. > Is it possible, David, that you have it > ...backwards? Christ certainly is more important, but our understanding of him grows and grows. I was talking about foundations, in the same way that Jesus was in the following passage: John 3:12 (12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? If a person claims to understand all the mysteries of heaven and even Christ himself, yet he has not love (continues to sin), he is nothing. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Hey, Slick, your implied threat of followup to my "reply" is of little ocncern to me. You know -- Deegan badgered me, sometime ago about what I did in terms of ministry -- implying that I did nothing. So I finally gave in and listed my activity. Pretty much put his fat proverbial to shame. Afterwards, Deegan's distaste for me did not end. My reply did not count for anything to him. Your and DM's request will be the same. I said , at the time, I would not again answer to those who were not listening. I have given a reply, by the way. How come you haven't read it? I will expand on it, if you prefer as soon as you learn to spell.(check).
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cd: I simple reply will do John-What is the name of the church you pastor-I have friends out there and they know many churches in that area.
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/16/2006 10:51:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I have not yet responded because I do not know how to approach this bit of detective work? That there is much more going on here than meets the eye or might be admitted is more than obvious. This comes from an apostle/ prophet ("as in apostles and prophets") who rejects any questioning that seeks some degree of confirmation for his own cliams.
But I do plan on some kind of answer. It's just surprising to realize that David took time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and software sales to research as much as posible his old buddy, John Smithson. Should I return the favor? Nay. I already know all I need to know about our good list owner.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'? > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John wrote: > >>>> ... I speak as one who is leadership. > > > > David wrote: > >>> What is your leadership position > >>> in your local church? > > > > John wrote: > >> Pastor. I am one no matter where I > >> attend. Does it sound arrogant for me > >> to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, > >> California? > > > > No, not necessarily, but the way you have
answered this is a little > > perplexing. > > > > I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare > > Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your > > pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your > > leadership role in the church? > > > > Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith > > Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? > > > > Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? > > > > David Miller. > > > > -- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
have a > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/16/2006 12:21:28 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding hint3: "..righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." (Rom3, NIV) cd: What do you mean by the word "righteousness"- Gary? On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:58:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hint2: > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" > Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 > > Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any[one].. > > I'm [unsure] anyone on earth..understands Jesus Christ. On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:50:25 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hint1: 'the door to understanding' & human 'in/fallibility' have no role in NT thought, are not categories of NT revelation -- On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> [DavidM 'understanding that] Jesus [is] the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel ||
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
cd: I simple reply will do John-What is the name of the church you pastor-I have friends out there and they know many churches in that area.
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/16/2006 10:51:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I have not yet responded because I do not know how to approach this bit of detective work? That there is much more going on here than meets the eye or might be admitted is more than obvious. This comes from an apostle/ prophet ("as in apostles and prophets") who rejects any questioning that seeks some degree of confirmation for his own cliams.
But I do plan on some kind of answer. It's just surprising to realize that David took time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and software sales to research as much as posible his old buddy, John Smithson. Should I return the favor? Nay. I already know all I need to know about our good list owner.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'? > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John wrote: > >>>> ... I speak as one who is leadership. > > > > David wrote: > >>> What is your leadership position > >>> in your local church? > > > > John wrote: > >> Pastor. I am one no matter where I > >> attend. Does it sound arrogant for me > >> to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, > >> California? > > > > No, not necessarily, but the way you have
answered this is a little > > perplexing. > > > > I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare > > Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your > > pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your > > leadership role in the church? > > > > Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith > > Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? > > > > Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? > > > > David Miller. > > > > -- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
have a > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
> [Original Message] > From: Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 2/16/2006 6:47:14 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'? cd: I for one look forward to John reply reguarding his Pastorship. > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John wrote: > >>>> ... I speak as one who is leadership. > > > > David wrote: > >>> What is your leadership position > >>> in your local church? > > > > John wrote: > >> Pastor. I am one no matter where I > >> attend. Does it sound arrogant for me > >> to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, > >> California? > > > > No, not necessarily, but the way you have answered this is a little > > perplexing. > > > > I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare > > Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your > > pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your > > leadership role in the church? > > > > Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith > > Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? > > > > Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? > > > > David Miller. > > > > -- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I cannot counsel in the state of California, without doing two things:
1. Including a statement that separates me from the mental health care industry, and
2.. Securing documenation that justifies my claim of "pastoral counselor." This includes membership in a national Christian counseling association and proof of ordination. I am not ordained in Four Square. Never plan on this being the case.
All of the above is done for legal (liability) reasons.
Why would you go to the trouble of checking me out ? What if David decides that I need to be exposed and consults with these leaders? Could that be on the horizen ? I have been disfellowshipped by one church I did not attend while preaching for another church 50 miles away --- disfellowshipped by that far-away church without a single meeting with me or word of warning. At seminary, my problems had to do with two things -- a paper I was writing on grace and the secretive , behind my back, counsel of my conference professor (regarding this paper) and his decision to expose me to the leadership of the school.
Do I have another idiot thinking of doing the same thing? My ordination fellowship will not be so effected. It is an association of pastors -- used to such treatment. But church leaders often love this kind of nonsense.
Please note my willingness to be open with your questioning and your refusal to be equally so in regards to a number of your claims over the past two years.
If you have further questions, take it off line. I am sure those on this forum are not interested. You have my phone number, as well. Understand that off line, I will expect tit for tat --- answers from you on an number of claims.
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have not yet responded because I do not know how to approach this bit of detective work? That there is much more going on here than meets the eye or might be admitted is more than obvious. This comes from an apostle/ prophet ("as in apostles and prophets") who rejects any questioning that seeks some degree of confirmation for his own cliams.
But I do plan on some kind of answer. It's just surprising to realize that David took time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and software sales to research as much as posible his old buddy, John Smithson. Should I return the favor? Nay. I already know all I need to know about our good list owner.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'? > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John wrote: > >>>> ... I speak as one who is leadership. > > > > David wrote: > >>> What is your leadership position > >>> in your local church? > > > > John wrote: > >> Pastor. I am one no matter where I > >> attend. Does it sound arrogant for me > >> to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, > >> California? > > > > No, not necessarily, but the way you have
answered this is a little > > perplexing. > > > > I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare > > Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your > > pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your > > leadership role in the church? > > > > Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith > > Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? > > > > Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? > > > > David Miller. > > > > -- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
have a > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
This point is without debate, IMO. Nowhere in scripture is there the sense of ex-cathedra in regard to the spoken word -- or even the logical need for same.
Consider the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). How is the decision made? It is most likely that every author of N.T. scripture was sitting in the meeting. !! Right? So why the collabrative effort? Because of the correctness of G's observation, obviously!! (please note the use of scripture and the anticipated use of bias in response.)
What of the borther in I Cor 8:1ff? His experience (which is mis-informed) differes from that of Paul's theology, yet, Paul does not insist on his teaching.
In Romans 14, the entire passage concerns itself with two brothers who are in serious error , yet Paul does not insist on agreement -- in fact, it is clear that such a demand would have been rejected.
Peter is in error when it comes to the Gentile inclusion with regard to the assembly of the saints.
Jesus, at His ascension (!) is faced with doctrinal error in regards to the very nature of the Kingdom of God ("will you now establish the Kingdom to Israel?"). He has had to deal with this type of ignorance all the while and, here it is after the resurrection!! It is almost as if He shook his head, looked up to the heavens and said to His Father, "Get Me out of here !!" And so the reason for why the ascension took place WHEN it did.
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
hint1:
'the door to understanding' & human 'in/fallibility' have no role in NT thought, are not categories of NT revelation
--
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Jesus being the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel? Are > you serious? Lance, John, Bill... do you guys agree with Gary on this?> > David Miller.> > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:10 PM> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding> > myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do w
ith the > NT gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine)> > On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes:> >some of my understanding is infallible[:] I understand that Jesus > is the Messiah.>
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
hint3: "..righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." (Rom3, NIV) On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:58:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hint2: > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" > Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 > > Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any[one].. > > I'm [unsure] anyone on earth..understands Jesus Christ. On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:50:25 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hint1: 'the door to understanding' & human 'in/fallibility' have no role in NT thought, are not categories of NT revelation -- On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> [DavidM 'understanding that] Jesus [is] the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel ||
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
hint2: > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" > Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 > > Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any[one].. > > I'm [unsure] anyone on earth..understands Jesus Christ. On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:50:25 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hint1: 'the door to understanding' & human 'in/fallibility' have no role in NT thought, are not categories of NT revelation -- On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> [DavidM 'understanding that] Jesus [is] the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel ||
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
David, David, David - is G talking about Jesus as Messiah or your notion of infallability? -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Jesus being the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel? Are you > serious? Lance, John, Bill... do you guys agree with Gary on this? > > David Miller. > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:10 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do with the NT > gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine) > > On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> writes: > >some of my understanding is infallible[:] I understand that Jesus is the > >Messiah. > > > > > -- > "Let your sp eech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
hint1: 'the door to understanding' & human 'in/fallibility' have no role in NT thought, are not categories of NT revelation -- On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Jesus being the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel? Are > you serious? Lance, John, Bill... do you guys agree with Gary on this?> > David Miller.> > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:10 PM> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding> > myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do with the > NT gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine)> > On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes:> >some of my understanding is infallible[:] I understand that Jesus > is the Messiah.>
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I have not yet responded because I do not know how to approach this bit of detective work? That there is much more going on here than meets the eye or might be admitted is more than obvious. This comes from an apostle/ prophet ("as in apostles and prophets") who rejects any questioning that seeks some degree of confirmation for his own cliams.
But I do plan on some kind of answer. It's just surprising to realize that David took time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and software sales to research as much as posible his old buddy, John Smithson. Should I return the favor? Nay. I already know all I need to know about our good list owner.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'? > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John wrote: > >>>> ... I speak as one who is leadership. > > > > David wrote: > >>> What is your leadership position > >>> in your local church? > > > > John wrote: > >> Pastor. I am one no matter where I > >> attend. Does it sound arrogant for me > >> to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, > >> California? > > > > No, not necessarily, but the way you have
answered this is a little > > perplexing. > > > > I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare > > Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your > > pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your > > leadership role in the church? > > > > Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith > > Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? > > > > Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? > > > > David Miller. > > > > -- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
have a > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Perhaps Lance has a good point, David. Consider the biblical record. Does it begin with Christ or sin? And sin, defined and demonstrated , displays what volume of content compared to that of "Christ?" Surely the answer is "much more!" Anyway, I am not sure how we go about discussing one without the other. If you think "sin" is an easily understood concept, read "The Many Faces of Evil" by Feinberg or any number of books discussing this subject. Extremely complicated. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is > determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you > have it ...backwards? > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? > > > > Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not > > sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of sin, > > however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is > > the > > only criteria of God's judgment. When we al l stand before Jesus Christ, > > the > > Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we > > have > > done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our > > understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than > > our philosophy of the nature of Christ. > > > > David Miller. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. > > Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody > > else > > is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems > > defective. DM > > > > I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of > > Christological > > didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your > > Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that > > circumstance. > > David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we > > cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but > > myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than > > David !! What think ye? > > > > jd > > > > > > > > -- Original message -- > > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > >> Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have > >> been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a > >> similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry abo ut it too > >> much. > >> > >> For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way > >> beyond > >> that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to > >> 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called > >> the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? > >> > >> As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. > >> Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody > >> else > >> is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems > >> defective. > >> > >> David Mil ler. > >> > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: Lance Muir > >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM > >> Subje ct: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > >> > >> Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a > >> little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not > >> necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree > >> that > >> misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when > >> speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. > >> DM > >> also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of mos
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Jesus being the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel? Are you serious? Lance, John, Bill... do you guys agree with Gary on this? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do with the NT gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine) On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >some of my understanding is infallible[:] I understand that Jesus is the >Messiah. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding John wrote: ... I speak as one who is leadership. David wrote: What is your leadership position in your local church? John wrote: Pastor. I am one no matter where I attend. Does it sound arrogant for me to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, California? No, not necessarily, but the way you have answered this is a little perplexing. I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your leadership role in the church? Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you have it ...backwards? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of sin, however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is the only criteria of God's judgment. When we all stand before Jesus Christ, the Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we have done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than our philosophy of the nature of Christ. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. DM I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of Christological didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that circumstance. David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than David !! What think ye? jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. David Mil ler. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary focus. ----- Original Me ssage - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding ----- Original Message ----- From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but yo u are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall --
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
ONE WAY of saying this: God Himself is the authority and the Scriptures are one of His interlocaters. i - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 14:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Yeah, you guys must be paranoid. I have no idea what that something else in my mind might even be. No wonder people say that I tend to be naive. I'm still waiting for your answer about Scripture and authority. Why dodge such basic questions? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Well, interesting qustion. Two examples. Dean recently told G not to be belligerent. I thought to myself - is this an order from King Moderator or just a passing statement in the course of debate. We no longer know, do we? Secondly, when DM questioned me about scripture and the authority of church leadership -- there was the distinct notion, on my part, that something else was going on in the mind of David. Paranoid? Probably. Without good reason? I think not. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Am I the only one to have noticed this, John? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" To: Sent: February 15, 2006 07:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about? > > David Miller. > > - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I > see > this more from DM with those le ss than veiled threats & warnings > directed > at > those who dare to disagree with him. > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I > am > tired of it. > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? > Others > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am > talking > about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY > comment. > And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to > the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and > simple. > You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. > > The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and > "study" the written word is more than obvious. > > jd > > > > > > > > > > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moore" > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read > this out loud and you will see what I mean. . > > > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to > his > lower statement and you have a cult. > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I > am > tired of it. > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? > Others > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > jd > > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moore" > > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to > his > lower statement and you have a cult. < BR>> > > John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not > revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you > will, > it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical > text > is > expanded and/or confirmed > > > > - Original Message - > From: Judy Taylor > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > .Amen De
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I do not but, could put you in touch with the ministry that distributes the 'package'. His teaching was entitled 'Foundational Principles and Prophetic Teaching to Equip the Body of Christ for City Transformation' See www.makingeverythingnew.com - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 14:39 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Do you have it posted on a website somewhere? How can we hear it? David Miller. - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding That which he (they actually- Martin Scott of England & Marcus Splitt of Germany) prophetically uttered was recorded. It's fairly lengthy. - Original Message - From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 09:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding [Original Message] From: Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Date: 2/15/2006 8:55:21 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Addendum: I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet & prophetically gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded to prophesy over the store and, several persons in it. cd: Really? What did he have to say about the store and you guys in it-be specific please? Thanks Lance. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
LOL -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Four hours later and it looks like that beer has kicked in! :-) David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I can harley weight une till I can to learn to right like you or Dean may be. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Unfortunately, you seem to be writing like Gary more and more every day. > Your corrections did not help me much in understanding what you were trying > to say. > > David Miller > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; > TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:38 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > Sorry about this post. My wife called me to "breakfast !!" and I tried to > put the rockets into high gear. My apologies. My little fingers -- all > eight of them, do their thing while I do mine. Reconciliation , it seems , > is quite the personal reality when it comes to [my] writing. I have bee n > giving it more attention, of late Anyone noticed? > > My corrected message is below. > > jd > > -- Original message -- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer > funny. Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and > completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any scripture at > all !!! The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these passages of thought > is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult. Nothing is > more weird than the argument that God has a penis. And some continue to > reference King David's groin, even in private conversation. I pray for this > person and his combative [successfully so] son!! :-) > > jd > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > > > - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see > this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at > those who dare to disagree with him. > > cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the > warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible > can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 > means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, > Baxter...etc? > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org < BR>> Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am > tired of it. > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking > about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. > And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to > the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. > You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. > > The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and > "study" the written word is more than obvious. > > jd > > > > > > > > > > ; > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moor e" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read > this out loud and you will see what I mean. . > > > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his > lower statement and you have a cult. > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am > tired of it. &g
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
since the writer's fallability lies within understanding which he equally obviously cannot understand, then all of his understanding is fallible, inc his comment 'I understand that Jesus is the Messiah' On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:..It is quite obvious to me that some of my understanding is infallible...
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do with the NT gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine) On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >some of my understanding is infallible[:] I understand that Jesus is the Messiah.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
David Miller wrote: >> If this were true, then the Scriptures are >> no standard at all. Are you saying that >> our understanding of Scripture is ALWAYS >> prone to error and therefore none of us can >> be sure that we understand the Scriptures, ever? John wrote: > Actually, David, it is all the more critical that the > biblical message as pretains to the revelation of > God within that message be "infallible." My > understanding of scripture is not infallable and it > is quite obvious that yours is not, as well. It is quite obvious to me that some of my understanding is infallible. For example, I understand that Jesus is the Messiah. Is this understanding fallible? Is it subject to error or change? I think not. John wrote: > The fact that the Bible is "infallable" is no reason > to assume that we do not insist upon our own > standards of faith and practice. Such is an > unavoidable bias. If we insist upon our own standards of faith and practice, and we believe that our standards are fallable and prone to being wrong, then we would be operating out of pride and arrogance. We should be locked up if that were the case. Nobody has the right to insist that others follow our fallible beliefs. David Miller wrote: >> If this is your position, then the Scriptures are >> not profitable for reproof and correction because >> someone could always just say that the person giving >> the correction misunderstands the Scripture. John wrote: > No David. I do not confuse one's understanding > of scripture with scripture, itself. ... I know that > Christ loves me as I stan d before Him this day; > that He died for me just as I am and that He is > working within me and in the community of those > surrounding me to bring me to the quality of life > I hunger for --- and I believe this, in part, > because of the Bible [whether Catholic or Protestant.] > As you can tell, with God it is all about "me." > Praise God. It is all about you, eh? Well, don't you see that you are operating as if your understanding of these things are infallible? If it is possible that you are in error about all this, then you should be open to the idea that maybe God is not loving you in the manner that you describe. But... if you do have an infallible understanding here, and I think you do but just won't admit that you do, then nobody can take away your assurance that God loves you. John wrote: > You have hit upon the problem of evangelism, > David. And how do we solve the problem? > Scare them into the church? Devise crafty > arugments that cannot be defeated? Wave > underwear? Or love them into His grace? > Present the work of God in our lives and offer > THAT as the strength of our position? How about we leave the work to God and we just be willing vessels to do and speak whatever he directs us to do and speak. John wrote: > If you and I ever do "team evangelism," it will be > in this wise. I will build my church behind your > building. That way I can invite the hordes running > out your back doors (double wide, no doubt) through > the front doors of my chapel. Given enough time, > your church, in comparision, will look like a closet > space. :-)[how am I doing , G?] Actually, you are getting kind of close to the way this team work goes. God does not allow me to draw men unto me in the kind of work that I do in regards to evangelism. So first off, I don't have a building. Only you do. Then as I preach and people come under conviction, they are baptized and believe upon Jesus Christ. Then they go to your home or the homes of others or to church buildings where people congregate around the Lord Jesus Christ. They form relationships and grow in the grace of Christ. David Miller wrote: > You keep quoting 1 Cor. 5. This chapter shows > a little more than just example when Paul instructs > the Corinthians to cast out the sinner from their > church. John wrote: > Gee, David, where WAS the leadership of that > church? They were puffed up, thinking that they could keep this man in fellowship even with his sin. John wrote: > And what kind of "order" was it. An order of holiness, that nobody in the body of Christ should be allowed to continue in sin. John wrote: > I mean, if they decided to deal with > the problem differently, what would > have happened? Other believers would have fallen into sin, and eventually the whole church would be full of sinners. John wrote: > And what is there in I Cor 5 that preaches > against my claim? The admonition to excommunicate this man is contrary to the way that you teach to deal with sin. John wrote: > When leadership moves from example to authority, > tyranny is born and time will record its ugliness!! Example is authority, John. Jesus never got rid of authority. Rather, he taught authority how to exercise their power, which is from the bottom up, as servants. Tyranny was not born in 1 Cor. 5. A man was delivered over
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Four hours later and it looks like that beer has kicked in!
:-)
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:02
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
I can harley weight une till I can to learn to right like you
or Dean may be.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
Unfortunately, you seem to be writing like Gary more and more every day.
> Your corrections did not help me much in understanding what you
were trying > to say. > > David Miller >
> - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; >
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006
11:38 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
> > Sorry about this post. My wife called me to "breakfast !!"
and I tried to > put the rockets into high gear. My apologies. My
little fingers -- all > eight of them, do their thing while I do
mine. Reconciliation , it seems, > is quite the personal reality when
it comes to [my] writing. I have bee n > giving it more attention, of
late Anyone noticed? > > My corrected message is below.
> > jd > > -- Original message
-- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Dean,
we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer >
funny. Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and
> completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any
scripture at > all !!! The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these
passages of thought > is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of
the occult. Nothing is > more weird than the argument that God has a
penis. And some continue to > reference King David's groin, even in
private conversation. I pray for this > person and his combative
[successfully so] son!! :-) > > jd > >
-- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > >
> - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM >
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > >
> I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with
authority. I see > this more from DM with those less than veiled
threats & warnings directed at > those who dare to disagree with
him. > > cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with
Christ that prompts the > warnings about the consequences of sin? We
support all we say with the Bible > can you group say the same. Your
group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 > means-because it
collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, > Baxter...etc?
> - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The
door to understanding > > > > Secondly, I never
said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am > tired of
it. > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide
He is a calf? Others > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.
> > I do not care what you said. Do you understand that
comment? I am talking > about what I said, Dean. I am talking about
what you said of MY comment. > And nothing in MY comment spoke of a
group defining God. Any comment to > the contrary is a lie, at this
stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. > You think the "church"
is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. > > The fact
that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and >
"study" the written word is more than obvious. > > jd >
> > > > > > > >
> > -- Original message -- >
From: "Dean Moor e" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >
> > > - Original Message - > From:
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The
door to understanding > > > Dean !!! Would you p[lease
slow down and proof read you comments. Read > this out loud and you
will see what I mean. . > > > cd: Judy the most concern
that prompted my below reply to John was hi
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
John wrote: >>> ... I speak as one who is leadership. David wrote: >> What is your leadership position >> in your local church? John wrote: > Pastor. I am one no matter where I > attend. Does it sound arrogant for me > to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, > California? No, not necessarily, but the way you have answered this is a little perplexing. I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your leadership role in the church? Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I can harley weight une till I can to learn to right like you or Dean may be. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Unfortunately, you seem to be writing like Gary more and more every day. > Your corrections did not help me much in understanding what you were trying > to say. > > David Miller > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; > TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:38 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > Sorry about this post. My wife called me to "breakfast !!" and I tried to > put the rockets into high gear. My apologies. My little fingers -- all > eight of them, do their thing while I do mine. Reconciliation , it seems, > is quite the personal reality when it comes to [my] writing. I have bee n > giving it more attention, of late Anyone noticed? > > My corrected message is below. > > jd > > -- Original message -- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer > funny. Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and > completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any scripture at > all !!! The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these passages of thought > is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult. Nothing is > more weird than the argument that God has a penis. And some continue to > reference King David's groin, even in private conversation. I pray for this > person and his combative [successfully so] son!! :-) > > jd > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > > > - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see > this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at > those who dare to disagree with him. > > cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the > warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible > can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 > means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, > Baxter...etc? > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am > tired of it. > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking > about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. > And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to > the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. > You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. > > The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and > "study" the written word is more than obvious. > > jd > > > > > > > > > > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moor e" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read > this out loud and you will see what I mean. . > > > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his > lower statement and you have a cult. > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am > tired of it. > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > jd > > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Mo ore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
A beer in the morning? Isn't that a sign of alcoholism? You really have us worried now, John! :-) David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding You have no idea what the "it" I am speaking of is - quite obviously jd The "it" I am speaking of is not your "it," it (read "it") is mine. And I know exactly what that "it" is. Any questions? I'm going to go have a beer. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You have no idea what the "it" I am speaking of is - quite obviously - so I wouldn't be crowing about anything to do with me or BSF if I were you JD lest you be found to be a liar. Just keep laughing until the men in the white coats arrive On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:13:35 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy speaks of BSF and tells us "it works>"LOL I will be amending my list through the weekend. Official BSF appraisal of said beliefs will be shared with this forum. Should be interesting. Again -- Judy's name will not be used. This is not about her, it is about her doctrine. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting list so are pretty strict about attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many meetings. When I had to go to Australia I could look in their book and find meetings over there to attend. Same with every State in the Union and since everyone has the same lesson on the same week - it works. To complete the whole series takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year. From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community. David Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.) ----- Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No stan
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Unfortunately, you seem to be writing like Gary more and more every day. Your corrections did not help me much in understanding what you were trying to say. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Sorry about this post. My wife called me to "breakfast !!" and I tried to put the rockets into high gear. My apologies. My little fingers -- all eight of them, do their thing while I do mine. Reconciliation , it seems, is quite the personal reality when it comes to [my] writing. I have been giving it more attention, of late Anyone noticed? My corrected message is below. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer funny. Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any scripture at all !!!The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these passages of thought is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult. Nothing is more weird than the argument that God has a penis. And some continue to reference King David's groin, even in private conversation. I pray for this person and his combative [successfully so] son!! :-) jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE t
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of sin, however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is the only criteria of God's judgment. When we all stand before Jesus Christ, the Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we have done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than our philosophy of the nature of Christ. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. DM I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of Christological didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that circumstance. David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than David !! What think ye? jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have > been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a > similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too > much. > > For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way > beyond > that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to > 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called > the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? > > As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. > Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody > else > is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems > defective. > > David Mil ler. > > > - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a > little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not > necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree > that > misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when > speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. > DM > also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, > of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays > claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an > engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not > be the primary focus. > > - Original Me ssage - > From: Dean Moore > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. > cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers > from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt > that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the > one that exists. > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moore" > > cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements > that > have been taken out of context- but yo u are incorrect.By the way who is > the > BSF? > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. > Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with > who believes the following: > >
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
"overall mass of the group" - is this a fat joke? -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 9:31:49 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Yes, and perhaps Dean's criticism is the very strength of the Church. Association with the "group" does tend to keep us in line. Because that has not worked out so well with several on this forum is not an argument against the anointed psychology of "church" or "groupspeak" if you will. jd cd: criticism will work only if the overall mass of the group is biblical in their understanding-of course meaning completeness.We (S.P.) do this to each other all the time-and this works well as a nuance for the conformity of the over mass of the group. -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding BSF/Groupthink? Hmm cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
My comments below. . John wrote:> You know how I feel about the scriptures.No, I really do not. Do you believe that the Scriptures are the infallible Word of God? Are the Scriptures a standard to which all believers must align themselves? You mean "Do you, John, believe as I do about the scripture, that it is a legal documents to which we must all align ourselves?" No. The revelation of God's will within our scripture is infallible. How could it not be? It is [the biblical message - whether Catholic or Protestant] the "Word of God" because God takes possession of it, using that "Bible" [whether Catholic or Protestant] to providentially accomplish His will in us. It [the Bible, whether Catholic or Portestant] is not the only avenue available to God for accomplishing His purposes in us. John wrote:> But scripture is one thing and my understanding> of scripture is another. One is"infallable" and the> other is not and that is the case for us> all.If this were true, then the Scriptures are no standard at all. Are you saying that our understanding of Scripture is ALWAYS prone to error and therefore none of us can be sure that we understand the Scriptures, ever? Actually, David, it is all the more critical that the biblical message as pretains to the revelation of God within that message be "infallible." My understanding of scripture is not infallable and it is quite obvious that yours is not, as well. The fact that the Bible is "infallable" is no reason to assume that we do not insist upon our own standards of faith and practice. Such is an unavoidable bias.If this is your position, then the Scriptures are not profitable for reproof and correction because someone could always just say that the person giving the correction misunderstands the Scripture. No David. I do not confuse one's understanding of scripture with scripture, itself. If I thought that yours, Judy's, or Dean's understanding of scripture was scritpure itself, I would become an atheist in a matter of minutes. But I know that Christ loves me as I stan d before Him this day; that He died for me just as I am and that He is working within me and in the community of those surrounding me to bring me to the quality of life I hunger for --- and I believe this, in part, because of the Bible [whether Catholic or Protestant.] As you can tell, with God it is all about "me." Praise God. For example, homosexuals have a legitimate counter when they claim that the homosexuality forbidden in the Bible has to do with pagan worship and not just same gender lustful behavior per se. Who is to say which interpretation or understanding is right if nobody has an infallible understanding? I have an opinion about this and I am not "inspired." What is the problem, again? In like manner, someone could argue that Jesus is not really the Messiah talked about in Isaiah 53. Virtually all the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures could be explained away. I truly would like to hear you expound upon your concept here, because either I am misunderstanding you or this is serious false doctrine. You have hit upon the problem of evangelism, David. And how do we solve the problem? Scare them into the church? Devise crafty arugments that cannot be defeated? Wave underwear? Or love them into His grace? Present the work of God in our lives and offer THAT as the strength of our position? If you and I ever do "team evangelism," it will be in this wise. I will build my church behind your building. That way I can invite the hordes running out your back doors (double wide, no doubt) through the front doors of my chapel. Given enough time, your church, in comparision, will look like a closet space. :-) [how am I doing , G?] John wrote:> The authority of leadership within the> church is their life, their example.That's part of it, a primary part of it, but not all of it. You keep quoting 1 Cor. 5. This chapter shows a little more than just example when Paul instructs the Corinthians to cast out the sinner from their church.Gee, David, where WAS the leadership of that church? And what kind of "order" was it. I mean, if they decided to deal with the problem differently, what would have happened? And what is there in I Cor 5 that preaches against my claim? When leadership moves from example to authority, tyranny is born and time will record its ugliness!! The church has a history that attests to this fact, does it not? Recently you experienced a 1 Cor. 5 type of discipline from the moderator of this list. I realize that this list is not a church, but do you agree that this kind of exercise of authority is proper in God's eyes? Can't answer that question, David, or I might be cut off again. Does that answer your question? John wrote:> The hierarchy of the church is this:> Ye who are spiritual help those who> are weak. And I speak as one who> is leadership.What is your leadership position
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Yeah, you guys must be paranoid. I have no idea what that something else in my mind might even be. No wonder people say that I tend to be naive. I'm still waiting for your answer about Scripture and authority. Why dodge such basic questions? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Well, interesting qustion. Two examples. Dean recently told G not to be belligerent. I thought to myself - is this an order from King Moderator or just a passing statement in the course of debate. We no longer know, do we? Secondly, when DM questioned me about scripture and the authority of church leadership -- there was the distinct notion, on my part, that something else was going on in the mind of David. Paranoid? Probably. Without good reason? I think not. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Am I the only one to have noticed this, John? > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" > To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 07:45 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about? > > > > David Miller. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Lance Muir > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I > > see > > this more from DM with those le ss than veiled threats & warnings > > directed > > at > > those who dare to disagree with him. > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I > > am > > tired of it. > > > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? > > Others > > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > > > I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am > > talking > > about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. > > And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to > > the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and > > simple. > > You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. > > > > The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and > > "study" the written word is more than obvious. > > > > jd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Original message -- > > From: "Dean Moore" > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read > > this out loud and you will see what I mean. . > > > > > > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to > > his > > lower statement and you have a cult. > > > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I > > am > > tired of it. > > > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? > > Others > > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > > > jd > > > > > > -- Original message -- > > From: "Dean Moore" > > > > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to > > his > > lower statement and you have a cult. < BR>> > > > John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not > > revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you > > will, > > it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text > > is > > expanded and/or con
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Does this memo from DM mean that he will, also, leave off personal obsevatiosn about our intellectual [in]abilites, our standing with God in Christ and all such related issues? We can only hope for the best. Looking forward to the day we only discuss issues. Until then, I will continue to tit your tat !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Oophs!! Lance, shot yourself in the foot. How are you ever gonna figure out what DM is about now?? My mother used to tell me you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar... The Lord tells me "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone" Good thing to remember before stoning a brother. judytFrom: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lance, based upon your previous comment concerning how I wake up to posts about me, I think perhaps it would be prudent for me to stop answering posts about me. So at least for now, I will be ignoring questions and comments about me. I have other more important matters that require my attention around here. David Miller. From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:49 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding David: I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy two.Kindly say the same thing in other words. Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time: 1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet & do you occupy it? b. isthere an office of king within the believing community & do you occupy it? thanks for this, Lance- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have> been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a> similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too> much.>> For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way> beyond> that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to> 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is> called> the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this?>> As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.> Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody> else> is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems> defective.>> David Miller.>>> - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir> To: T [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding>> Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a> little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not> necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree> that> misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when> speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion.> DM> also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has,> of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays> claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an> engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not> be the primary focus.>> - Original Message - > From: Dean Moore> To: T [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding>>>>>> - Original Message - > From:> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding>>> Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy.> cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers> from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt> that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the> one that exists.>> -- Original message ---------- > From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements> that> have been taken out of context- but yo u are incorrect.By the way who is> the> BSF?>>>> - Original Message - > From:> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding>>> Let's talk "cult,
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Do you have it posted on a website somewhere? How can we hear it? David Miller. - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding That which he (they actually- Martin Scott of England & Marcus Splitt of Germany) prophetically uttered was recorded. It's fairly lengthy. - Original Message - From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 09:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Date: 2/15/2006 8:55:21 AM >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding >> >> Addendum: >> >> I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet & prophetically >> gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically >> gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded > to >> prophesy over the store and, several persons in it. > > cd: Really? What did he have to say about the store and you guys in it-be > specific please? Thanks Lance. > > > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 9:49:25 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Every single item on the list is an argued belief from either you or Judy Taylor. You don't like it because when it is all put together, it is rather embarrassing. The "cult" thingy is written all ofver this type of [listed] thinking. You can counter with a list of weird beliefs of any of us on the left. Let's see -- maybe I can help. Jd and friends actually believe this drivel: cd: In blue below. 1. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth. Wrong-Eve wasn't from the dust -she was a transformed rib. 2. Christ is the eternal Son of God. Then who is the Lord Almighty in Rev1:8? I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 3. Christ Incarnate was God on earth. O.K. 4. God the Father did not have sexual relations with Mary. O.K. 5. Jesus came in the same flesh as all of mankind and was like us IN EVERY RESPECT. cd: Jesus wasn't a common man as He did not sin. We were brought up to his spiritual stat but remain only men, but not common sinning men. 6. The Old Covenant has been made obsolete. Then why did Jesus quote the Torah many times? And why are they our examples in 2 Peter 2 and: Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 7. God is not a sexual being. "Father" is a function of God, an aspect of His self-revealing economy. cd:Wrong, One can be masculine and not be sexual. 8. We learn of the mind of God through the spirit-led process of maturity. cd: Only if you adhere to the word of God -you do not. Pretty weird, huh ?!!! cd: Tell me about it. You understanding is not complete John. -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to l
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
You have no idea what the "it" I am speaking of is - quite obviously jd The "it" I am speaking of is not your "it," it (read "it") is mine. And I know exactly what that "it" is. Any questions? I'm going to go have a beer. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You have no idea what the "it" I am speaking of is - quite obviously - so I wouldn't be crowing about anything to do with me or BSF if I were you JD lest you be found to be a liar. Just keep laughing until the men in the white coats arrive On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:13:35 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy speaks of BSF and tells us "it works>" LOL I will be amending my list through the weekend. Official BSF appraisal of said beliefs will be shared with this forum. Should be interesting. Again -- Judy's name will not be used. This is not about her, it is about her doctrine. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting list so are pretty strict about attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many meetings. When I had to go to Australia I could look in their book and find meetings over there to attend. Same with every State in the Union and since everyone has the same lesson on the same week - it works. To complete the whole series takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year. From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community. David Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)----- Original Message - From: Dean MooreTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 14, 2006 17:53Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? ----- Original Message ----- From:To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent .Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an avenue for continuing reve
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Sorry about this post. My wife called me to "breakfast !!" and I tried to put the rockets into high gear. My apologies. My little fingers -- all eight of them, do their thing while I do mine. Reconciliation , it seems, is quite the personal reality when it comes to [my] writing. I have been giving it more attention, of late Anyone noticed? My corrected message is below. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer funny. Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any scripture at all !!! The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these passages of thought is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult. Nothing is more weird than the argument that God has a penis. And some continue to reference King David's groin, even in private conversation. I pray for this person and his combative [successfully so] son!! :-) jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
You have no idea what the "it" I am speaking of is -
quite obviously - so I wouldn't
be crowing about anything to do with me or BSF if I
were you JD lest you be found
to be a liar. Just keep laughing until the men in
the white coats arrive
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:13:35 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy speaks of BSF and tells us "it works>"
LOL
I will be amending my list through the weekend. Official BSF
appraisal of said
beliefs will be shared with this forum. Should be
interesting. Again -- Judy's
name will not be used. This is not about her, it is about her
doctrine.
jd
From:
Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting
list so are pretty strict about
attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many
meetings. When I had to go
to Australia I could look in their book and find
meetings over there to attend. Same
with every State in the Union and since everyone
has the same lesson on the same
week - it works. To complete the whole series
takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year.
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I have never
attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John
talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my
community.
David Miller.
- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends
also.)- Original Message - From: Dean MooreTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
February 14, 2006 17:53Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements
that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way
who is the BSF?
- Original Message - From:To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006
1:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the
local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a
person I am dealing with who believes the following:
1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh
being changed afterwards.
2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.
3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.
4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only
in some spiritual sense.
5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry.
6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.
7. God is male and has a penis.
8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion
and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination,"
the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without
fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when
it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And
those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be
opposed.
9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must
obey.
I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be
sufficent .Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of
"cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet
that BSF will not agree?
By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this
response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of
preaching the occult is not going to fly.
jd
l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
.Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when
you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors
there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs
ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They
all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in
whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No
one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error
if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your
group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by
the ma
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Judy speaks of BSF and tells us "it works>" LOL I will be amending my list through the weekend. Official BSF appraisal of said beliefs will be shared with this forum. Should be interesting. Again -- Judy's name will not be used. This is not about her, it is about her doctrine. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting list so are pretty strict about attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many meetings. When I had to go to Australia I could look in their book and find meetings over there to attend. Same with every State in the Union and since everyone has the same lesson on the same week - it works. To complete the whole series takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year. From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)- Original Message - From: Dean MooreTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 14, 2006 17:53Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From:To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent .Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.o
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. DM I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of Christological didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that circumstance. David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than David !! What think ye? jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have > been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a > similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much. > > For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond > that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to > 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called > the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? > > As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. > Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else > is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems > defective. > > David Mil ler. > > > - Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a > little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not > necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that > misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when > speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM > also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, > of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays > claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an > engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not > be the primary focus. > > - Original Me ssage - > From: Dean Moore > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. > cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers > from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt > that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the > one that exists. > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that > have been taken out of context- but yo u are incorrect.By the way who is the > BSF? > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. > Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with > who believes the following: > > 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being > changed afterwards. > > 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. > > 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. > > 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some > spiritual sense. > > 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. > > 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. > > 7. God is male and has a penis. > > 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books > are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of > acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. > Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and > what it means to say. And those who disagree wi
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer funny. Just becasue you quote scripture that is without explanation and completely off subject. The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these passages of thought is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult. Nothing is more weird thaAnd some continue to refer to Davidn the argument that God has a penis. And some continue to reference King David's groin, even in private conversation. I pary for this person and his combative [successfully so] son!! :-) jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expand
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Well, interesting qustion. Two examples. Dean recently told G not to be belligerent. I thought to myself - is this an order from King Moderator or just a passing statement in the course of debate. We no longer know, do we? Secondly, when DM questioned me about scripture and the authority of church leadership -- there was the distinct notion, on my part, that something else was going on in the mind of David. Paranoid? Probably. Without good reason? I think not. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Am I the only one to have noticed this, John? > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: > Sent: February 15, 2006 07:45 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about? > > > > David Miller. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Lance Muir > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see > > this more from DM with those le ss than veiled threats & warnings directed > > at > > those who dare to disagree with him. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I > > am > > tired of it. > > > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others > > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > > > I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am > > talking > > about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. > > And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to > > the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and > > simple. > > You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. > > > > The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and > > "study" the written word is more than obvious. > > > > jd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Original message -- > > From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read > > this out loud and you will see what I mean. . > > > > > > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to > > his > > lower statement and you have a cult. > > > > Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I > > am > > tired of it. > > > > cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others > > do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. > > > > jd > > > > > > -- Original message -- > > From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his > > earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to > > his > > lower statement and you have a cult. < BR>> > > > John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not > > revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you > > will, > > it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text > > is > > expanded and/or confirmed > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Judy Taylor > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > .Amen Dean, > > JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you > > say > > below ie: "in the mul
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Simple. Don't change my wording. Own up to what you pass off as doctrine. That would be a good start. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: How can one argue with your type of reasoning John? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:23:16 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Every single item on the list is an argued belief from either you or
Judy Taylor.
You don't like it because when it is all put together, it is rather
embarrassing.
The "cult" thingy is written all ofver this type of [listed]
thinking.
You can counter with a list of weird beliefs of any of us on the
left. Let's see -- maybe I can help.
Jd and friends actually believe this drivel:
1. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth.
A&E were created in God's image which is not
dust; the Creator is transcendent.
2. Christ is the eternal Son of God.
What scripture is the above based on? Only begotten
Son - yes. Eternal Son??
3. Christ Incarnate was God on earth.
Then why did he say "Why call me good?" There is only
one that is good and that is God?"
Was he double minded or possibly insane?
4. God the Father did not have sexual relations with Mary.
No kidding??
5. Jesus came in the same flesh as all of mankind and was like us
IN EVERY
RESPECT.
In which case he must have been born in sin and
iniquity and he would have to have had a redeemer himself.
6. The Old Covenant has been made obsolete.
God's moral law is not obsolete; you will be judged
by it in the Last Day
7. God is not a sexual being. "Father" is a function of God, an aspect of
His
self-revealing
economy.
Only to one overtaken by lust. A father is much more
than biology - good ones are rare.
8. We learn of the mind of God through the spirit-led process
of maturity.
The Spirit of God reveals the mind of God - Jesus
amazed the religious leaders at age 12.
and he according to your teaching was "just like you
in every way"
Pretty weird, huh ?!!!
You can say that again.
--
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think
David's family attends also.)
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our
statements that have been taken out of context- but you are
incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this
list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It
will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the
following:
1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall --
their flesh being changed afterwards.
2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of
God.
3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2
years.
4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David
- only in some spiritual sense.
5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His
ministry.
6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.
7. God is male and has a penis.
8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that
discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this
"illumination," the understanding of acripture can
be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being
wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it
comes to the Bible and what it means to say.
And those who disagree with this are false
teachers and need to be opposed.
9. The old law is binding and continues to be
something we must obey.
I would add to this list -- but I am sure this
will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of
"cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet
that BSF will not agree?
By the way - you are the one who has set the
tone for this response. This is the fruit of your
ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going
to fly.
jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
What specifics on the list have I misunderstood, Dean? Please enlighten us. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 9:31:49 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Yes, and perhaps Dean's criticism is the very strength of the Church. Association with the "group" does tend to keep us in line. Because that has not worked out so well with several on this forum is not an argument against the anointed psychology of "church" or "groupspeak" if you will. jd cd: criticism will work only if the overall mass of the group is biblical in their understanding-of course meaning completeness.We (S.P.) do this to each other all the time-and this works well as a nuance for the conformity of the over mass of the group. -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding BSF/Groupthink? Hmm cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Every single item on the list is an argued belief from either you or Judy Taylor. You don't like it because when it is all put together, it is rather embarrassing. The "cult" thingy is written all ofver this type of [listed] thinking. You can counter with a list of weird beliefs of any of us on the left. Let's see -- maybe I can help. Jd and friends actually believe this drivel: 1. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth. 2. Christ is the eternal Son of God. 3. Christ Incarnate was God on earth. 4. God the Father did not have sexual relations with Mary. 5. Jesus came in the same flesh as all of mankind and was like us IN EVERY RESPECT. 6. The Old Covenant has been made obsolete. 7. God is not a sexual being. "Father" is a function of God, an aspect of His self-revealing economy. 8. We learn of the mind of God through the spirit-led process of maturity. Pretty weird, huh ?!!! -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
John wrote: > You know how I feel about the scriptures. No, I really do not. Do you believe that the Scriptures are the infallible Word of God? Are the Scriptures a standard to which all believers must align themselves? John wrote: > But scripture is one thing and my understanding > of scripture is another. One is"infallable" and the > other is not and that is the case for us > all. If this were true, then the Scriptures are no standard at all. Are you saying that our understanding of Scripture is ALWAYS prone to error and therefore none of us can be sure that we understand the Scriptures, ever? If this is your position, then the Scriptures are not profitable for reproof and correction because someone could always just say that the person giving the correction misunderstands the Scripture. For example, homosexuals have a legitimate counter when they claim that the homosexuality forbidden in the Bible has to do with pagan worship and not just same gender lustful behavior per se. Who is to say which interpretation or understanding is right if nobody has an infallible understanding? In like manner, someone could argue that Jesus is not really the Messiah talked about in Isaiah 53. Virtually all the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures could be explained away. I truly would like to hear you expound upon your concept here, because either I am misunderstanding you or this is serious false doctrine. John wrote: > The authority of leadership within the > church is their life, their example. That's part of it, a primary part of it, but not all of it. You keep quoting 1 Cor. 5. This chapter shows a little more than just example when Paul instructs the Corinthians to cast out the sinner from their church. Recently you experienced a 1 Cor. 5 type of discipline from the moderator of this list. I realize that this list is not a church, but do you agree that this kind of exercise of authority is proper in God's eyes? John wrote: > The hierarchy of the church is this: > Ye who are spiritual help those who > are weak. And I speak as one who > is leadership. What is your leadership position in your local church? David Miller -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Yes, and perhaps Dean's criticism is the very strength of the Church. Association with the "group" does tend to keep us in line. Because that has not worked out so well with several on this forum is not an argument against the anointed psychology of "church" or "groupspeak" if you will. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding BSF/Groupthink? Hmm cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
And so it is that occultism (the esoteric) leads to cultish considerations. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It is more like that an individual decides against the 'group' thus generating a cult, Dean. This is what concerns me re:one who lays claim to 'special revelation' as the 'closer' in an argument. One such, at least, is a TT contributer. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:47 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
What an 'interesting' occasion for opting out, David. I'd be pleased to hear from you privately for the purpose of clarification. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 09:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Lance, based upon your previous comment concerning how I wake up to posts about me, I think perhaps it would be prudent for me to stop answering posts about me. So at least for now, I will be ignoring questions and comments about me. I have other more important matters that require my attention around here. David Miller. - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding David: I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy two. Kindly say the same thing in other words. Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time: 1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet & do you occupy it? b. is there an office of king within the believing community & do you occupy it? thanks for this, Lance - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary focus. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding ----- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" fr
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
That which he (they actually- Martin Scott of England & Marcus Splitt of Germany) prophetically uttered was recorded. It's fairly lengthy. - Original Message - From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 09:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding [Original Message] From: Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Date: 2/15/2006 8:55:21 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Addendum: I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet & prophetically gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded to prophesy over the store and, several persons in it. cd: Really? What did he have to say about the store and you guys in it-be specific please? Thanks Lance. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I believe that DM just said (meant) in a post
yesterday something rather different re:believers & sin.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 08:58
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 8:06:30 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Dean:Why don't you tell me (us) exactly what
Rev 3:1-6 DOES MEAN.
cd: It is telling the saved believers to
remember receiving Christ and stop sinning or Christ will remove their
name from the book of life(send to hell). Your church has to ignore this
verse as they do Heb. 6:1-8..etc..
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
I believe that cd & DM may be confusing
intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less
than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to
disagree with him.
cd: Is it disagreeing with David or
disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of
sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same.
Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it
collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill,
Baxter...etc?
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006
18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
Secondly, I never said that the group defines
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it.
cd: Do you remember my replying "What
if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I
forgive you.
I do not care what you said. Do you understand that
comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am
talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY
comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the
contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain
and simple. You think the "church" is all about common
folk and bosses, apparently.
The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you
read and "study" the written word is more than obvious.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The
door to understanding
Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof
read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see
what I mean. .
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below
reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the
group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a
cult.
Secondly, I never said that the group
defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it.
cd: Do you remember my replying
"What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying
John-but I forgive you.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Lance, based upon your previous comment concerning how I wake up to posts about me, I think perhaps it would be prudent for me to stop answering posts about me. So at least for now, I will be ignoring questions and comments about me. I have other more important matters that require my attention around here. David Miller. - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding David: I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy two. Kindly say the same thing in other words. Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time: 1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet & do you occupy it? b. is there an office of king within the believing community & do you occupy it? thanks for this, Lance - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have > been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a > similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too > much. > > For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way > beyond > that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to > 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is > called > the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? > > As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. > Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody > else > is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems > defective. > > David Miller. > > > ----- Original Message - > From: Lance Muir > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a > little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not > necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree > that > misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when > speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. > DM > also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, > of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays > claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an > engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not > be the primary focus. > > - Original Message - > From: Dean Moore > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. > cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers > from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt > that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the > one that exists. > > -- Original message -- > From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements > that > have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is > the > BSF? > > > > - Original Message - > From: > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > > Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. > Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with > who believes the following: > > 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being > changed afterwards. > > 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. > > 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. > > 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some > spiritual sense. > > 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. > > 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. > > 7. God is male and has a penis. > > 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussio
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
> [Original Message] > From: Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 2/15/2006 8:55:21 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding > > Addendum: > > I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet & prophetically > gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically > gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded to > prophesy over the store and, several persons in it. cd: Really? What did he have to say about the store and you guys in it-be specific please? Thanks Lance. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 8:00:08 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting list so are pretty strict about attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many meetings. When I had to go to Australia I could look in their book and find meetings over there to attend. Same with every State in the Union and since everyone has the same lesson on the same week - it works. To complete the whole series takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year. cd: What is their base belief-Cal. ,Armin., other? From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)- Original Message - From: Dean MooreTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 14, 2006 17:53Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From:To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent .Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 8:06:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean:Why don't you tell me (us) exactly what Rev 3:1-6 DOES MEAN. cd: It is telling the saved believers to remember receiving Christ and stop sinning or Christ will remove their name from the book of life(send to hell). Your church has to ignore this verse as they do Heb. 6:1-8..etc.. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 07:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then,
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Addendum: I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet & prophetically gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded to prophesy over the store and, several persons in it. - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 08:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding David: I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy two. Kindly say the same thing in other words. Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time: 1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet & do you occupy it? b. is there an office of king within the believing community & do you occupy it? thanks for this, Lance - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary focus. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding ----- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
cd: Thanks Judy -Do you know if they have one in this area- Western N.C.? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 7:56:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Writen by one who quite obviously has never ever participated in BSF which has nothing to do with psychology. Nor do they do anyone's thinking for them. In fact those who have not done their own homework (in the scriptures) in a given week must remain silent. Note: For Dean - BSF is Bible Study Fellowship - a weekly Bible Study which is international in scope - non-denominational and which was begun by a Ms Weatherall Johnson a British Missionary to China. On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 06:15:39 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean. From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong. From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding BSF/Groupthink? Hmm From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
David: I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy two. Kindly say the same thing in other words. Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time: 1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet & do you occupy it? b. is there an office of king within the believing community & do you occupy it? thanks for this, Lance - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary focus. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message ----- From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wro
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
There have been an = number of such issued by you to the 'soon-to-be cult' (via Dean), Judy. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 08:31 Subject: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Lance obviously has a very active and prolific imagination David. I have disagreed with you about a point or two and have yet to receive even a hint of "veiled threats or warnings" Apparently we live in two different dimensions (Lance and I, that is) judytFrom: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about? David Miller. From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 14, 2006 18:23Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From:To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forum
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Dean:Why don't you tell me (us) exactly what Rev
3:1-6 DOES MEAN.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
I believe that cd & DM may be confusing
intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than
veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with
him.
cd: Is it disagreeing with David or
disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of
sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your
group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with
your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc?
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Secondly, I never said that the group defines
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it.
cd: Do you remember my replying "What if
they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive
you.
I do not care what you said. Do you understand that
comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am
talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment
spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is
a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and
simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and
bosses, apparently.
The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read
and "study" the written word is more than obvious.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read
you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I
mean. .
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to
John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He
is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.
Secondly, I never said that the group defines
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it.
cd: Do you remember my replying "What
if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I
forgive you.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply
to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group
decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a
cult.
John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if
not revelation,
certainly interpretation or understanding.
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the
biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The
door to understanding
.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were
thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say
below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety"
However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of
God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Writen by one who quite obviously has never ever
participated in BSF which has nothing to do
with psychology. Nor do they do anyone's thinking for
them. In fact those who have not done their
own homework (in the scriptures) in a given week must
remain silent. Note: For Dean - BSF is
Bible Study Fellowship - a weekly Bible Study which is
international in scope - non-denominational
and which was begun by a Ms Weatherall Johnson a
British Missionary to China.
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 06:15:39 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be
an illustration, Dean.
From: Dean Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People
are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or
wrong.
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
From: Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were
thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below
ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the
"counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word
or
the Biblical text as you call it.
They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the
counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink??
Anathema!!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
cd: A very good definition
of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group
thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the
present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such
as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in
the power of the mass.
JD writes:
In the biblical
concept of the church
I see an avenue for
continuing revelation,
and if not revelation,
certainly interpretation or understanding.
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the
biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is,
then, that the church
continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical.
A community of
Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of
this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
houghts is borne.
jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary focus. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
As I've said previously DM, it always interests me to see what it is that 'wakes you up'..why..my goodness..it is when it is about YOU. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 07:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Am I the only one to have noticed this, John? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: February 15, 2006 07:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about? David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he w
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about? David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd & DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:19:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding You seem more reserved than when preaching on the street, Dean. Surely you will say what you mean for our benefit. 'too much dancing around'?? Are 'we' a cult IYO? cd: Not really-Sometimes it is loud to large group other times it is a quite one on one. One must react to the group -with control of course.By "dancing around" I mean jumping from one part of the bible to another part but leaving out the whole (ie completeness). I don't think you are a cult yet IMO, but do see the groundwork in place for being a cult. 1. Does your group thinking override the Bible. Yes as I have seen you guys agree against truth against clearly defined passaged (supported by many places in the bible and agree with the whole). that say differently. Mormons do the same thing. 2. Does your group have a charismatic leader? Yes, Baxter- as was Joseph Smith. 3. Does you group have a clearly biblical moral agenda. No-nor do Mormons. The commandments are secondary and don't exist for Christians. J. Smith -Adultery is not a sin. 4. Does your leader make outrageous statements? Yes-God is neither male of female.-J. Smith-We will be Gods in heaven. 5. Does you group have continual revelations that does not have to have biblical support. Yes," as the group will receive on going revelations and it decides truth". Even what God is- Male /felmale/calf. J. Smith Jesus is brother to Lucifer -Sin in the garden is a good thing. 6. Does you group focus on receiving money for religious activities. Baxter-3 nights $60.00,price of tapes..etc.Smith-donations are required. Jesus- You were freely given so freely give. If I am correct your group will make false prophecy statements next and give a wild explanation for nonfulliment.Respectfully-You are walking on dangerous ground Lance. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:00 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:16:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean: 'birth of a cult'? 'group thinking-no standards to point out error'? 'see why your group don't like preaching such as David (Miller) does'? These are rather serious accusations, Dean. These are certainly not borne out when reading the 'group' via TT. I had a rather lengthy conversation just last evening with a friend who reads TT regularly. I have for the longest time 'heard' only one voice on TT, said I to my friend, that has a 'cultic' ring to it. That voice belongs to no one in 'the group'. Over the decades I've encountered a handful of persons who claimed 'special access' to God; 'special giftedness' in understanding God; along with 'special insight' into others within the 'believing' community. I'd totally concur Dean, that such should be viewed with caution. cd: One thing a cult does is vere away from the bible but leave enough truth to sound convincing. I have yet to meet anyone in a cult that thought they were in a cult. There are too many unexplained sound bible verses in you groups belief.Too much dancing around. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 07:02 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/13/2006 7:19:39 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His thoughts is borne. cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
The following is not a compliment, nor is it
necessarily a criticism: As to "how can one argue with your type of
reasoning.(fill in the blank)? DM, in responding to a series of
questions I put to him, so framed his answers as to sever the possiblilty of
ongoing conversation.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:13
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
cd: How can one argue with your type of reasoning
John?
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:23:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Secondly, I never said that the group defines
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it.
cd: Do you remember my replying "What if
they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive
you.
I do not care what you said. Do you understand that
comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am
talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment
spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a
lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and
simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and
bosses, apparently.
The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and
"study" the written word is more than obvious.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you
comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I
mean. .
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to
John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He
is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.
Secondly, I never said that the group defines
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it.
cd: Do you remember my replying "What
if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive
you.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to
John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He
is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.
John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if
not revelation,
certainly interpretation or understanding.
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the
biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The
door to understanding
.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were
thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say
below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However
the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word
or
the Biblical text as you call it.
They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the
counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink??
Anathema!!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
cd: A very good
definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but
group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like
preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his
voice is lost in the power of the mass.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are
permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion'
is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree
that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when
speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also
lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late,
been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to
'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as
this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary
focus.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds
suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no
doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from
the one that exists.
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our
statements that have been taken out of context- but you are
incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this
list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It
will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the
following:
1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall --
their flesh being changed afterwards.
2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of
God.
3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2
years.
4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David
- only in some spiritual sense.
5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His
ministry.
6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.
7. God is male and has a penis.
8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that
discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this
"illumination," the understanding of acripture can
be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being
wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it
comes to the Bible and what it means to say.
And those who disagree with this are false
teachers and need to be opposed.
9. The old law is binding and continues to be
something we must obey.
I would add to this list -- but I am sure this
will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of
"cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet
that BSF will not agree?
By the way - you are the one who has set the
tone for this response. This is the fruit of your
ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going
to fly.
jd
l message -- From: Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were
thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say
below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However
the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word
or
the Biblical text as you call it.
They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the
counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink??
Anathema!!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
cd: A very good
definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:16:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.) cd: Thank you Lance. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
cd: Be so kind as to tell me what BSF stand for? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:15:47 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding BSF/Groupthink? Hmm cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
cd: How can one argue with your type of reasoning John? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:23:16 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
I believe that cd & DM may be confusing
intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled
threats & warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with
him.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Secondly, I never said that the group defines
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it.
cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they
decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive
you.
I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment?
I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you
said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining
God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the
discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church"
is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.
The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and
"study" the written word is more than obvious.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you
comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I
mean. .
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to
John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He
is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.
Secondly, I never said that the group defines
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it.
cd: Do you remember my replying "What if
they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive
you.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to
John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He
is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.
John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not
revelation, certainly
interpretation or understanding.
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical
text is expanded and/or confirmed
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were
thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say
below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However
the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word
or
the Biblical text as you call it.
They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the
counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink??
Anathema!!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
cd: A very good
definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but
group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like
preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his
voice is lost in the power of the mass.
JD writes:
In the biblical
concept of the church
I see an avenue for
continuing
revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation
or understanding.
If you will, it is in
the counsel of many that our understanding of
the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is,
then, that the church
continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtu
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
You seem more reserved than when preaching on the
street, Dean. Surely you will say what you mean for our benefit. 'too much
dancing around'?? Are 'we' a cult IYO?
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:00
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:16:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Dean:
'birth of a cult'?
'group thinking-no standards to point out
error'?
'see why your group don't like preaching such
as David (Miller) does'?
These are rather serious accusations, Dean.
These are certainly not borne out when reading the 'group' via
TT.
I had a rather lengthy conversation just last
evening with a friend who reads TT regularly. I have for the longest time
'heard' only one voice on TT, said I to my friend, that has a 'cultic' ring
to it. That voice belongs to no one in 'the group'.
Over the decades I've encountered a handful of
persons who claimed 'special access' to God; 'special giftedness' in
understanding God; along with 'special insight' into others within the
'believing' community. I'd totally concur Dean, that such should be viewed
with caution.
cd: One thing a cult does is vere away from
the bible but leave enough truth to sound convincing. I have yet to meet
anyone in a cult that thought they were in a cult. There are too many
unexplained sound bible verses in you groups belief.Too much dancing
around.
- Original Message -----
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:02
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/13/2006 7:19:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door
to understanding
In the biblical concept
of the church
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not
revelation, certainly
interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the
counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded
and/or confirmed.
How important,
it is, then, that the
church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical.
A community of Being
reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this
communal reality that our understanding of God and His thoughts is
borne.
cd: A very good definition of the
birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No
standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present
circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David
does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power
of the mass.
jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an
illustration, Dean.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People
are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or
wrong.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were
thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below
ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the
"counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word
or
the Biblical text as you call it.
They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the
counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink??
Anathema!!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
cd: A very good definition of
the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No
standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present
circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David
does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of
the mass.
JD writes:
In the biblical concept
of the church
I see an avenue for
continuing revelation,
and if not revelation,
certainly interpretation or understanding.
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the
biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is,
then, that the church
continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical.
A community of
Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of
this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts
is borne.
jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
It is more like that an individual decides against
the 'group' thus generating a cult, Dean. This is what concerns me re:one who
lays claim to 'special revelation' as the 'closer' in an argument. One such, at
least, is a TT contributer.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:47
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John
was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that
to his lower statement and you have a cult.
John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not
revelation, certainly
interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of
many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or
confirmed
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs
11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude
of
counsellors there is safety" However the
"counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word
or
the Biblical text as you call it.
They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel
in which
we find safety. Groupthink??
Anathema!!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
cd: A very good definition of
the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No
standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present
circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David
does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of
the mass.
JD writes:
In the biblical concept
of the church
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not
revelation, certainly
interpretation or understanding.
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical
text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is,
then, that the church
continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical.
A community of Being
reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this
communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is
borne.
jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Occult has to do with esoteric and these are often the basis of much of what we call cults. As I said before, one gives rise to another. If we do not agree on this , fine. I did not agree with your definition of "believer" as presented to Lance, seeing in that defintion a confusion of terms. Gnats are not very tasty. Is there a good reason why we cannot move on to substantive issues. Allow me my "moment of ignorance." There is plenty to go around !! jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> My question was in reaction to: Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding What does your question (the first one) have to do with anything I have written in this post? You lost me. Certainly. Both words actually apply -- one leading to the other. I will leave it to your imagination as to what order I might place these two words as a result of what I have witnessed on this forum.. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> John, are you getting paranoid? Nobody accused you of preaching the occult. Also, I hope you understand the difference between 'cult' and 'occult.' David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
John, if it is any consolation, I understood your post and appreciated it. Dean has a valid point too, but it does not invalidate your point, which is what I guess you are trying to say.John, do you understand the value of having a standard (Scripture) and anointed leaders within the body of Christ? Do you believe in authority within the church?David Miller. David -- what does this have to do with the current discussion? You know how I feel about the scriptures. But scripture is one thing and my understanding of scripture is another. One is"infallable" and the other is not and that is the case for us all. The authority of leadership within the church is their life, their example. The hierarchy of the church is this: Ye who are spiritual help those who are weak. And I speak as one who is leadership. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
My question was in reaction to:
Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to
fly.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:47
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
What does your question (the first one) have to do with anything I have
written in this post? You lost me.
Certainly. Both words actually apply -- one leading to
the other. I will leave it to your imagination as to what order I
might place these two words as a result of what I have witnessed on
this forum..
jd
--
Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
John, are you getting paranoid? Nobody accused you of preaching
the occult. Also, I hope you understand the difference between
'cult' and 'occult.'
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:25
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding
Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this
list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It
will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the
following:
1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall --
their flesh being changed afterwards.
2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of
God.
3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2
years.
4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David
- only in some spiritual sense.
5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His
ministry.
6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.
7. God is male and has a penis.
8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that
discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this
"illumination," the understanding of acripture can
be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being
wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it
comes to the Bible and what it means to say.
And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be
opposed.
9. The old law is binding and continues to be something
we must obey.
I would add to this list -- but I am sure this
will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of
"cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that
BSF will not agree?
By the way - you are the one who has set the tone
for this response. This is the fruit of your
ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to
fly.
jd
l message -- From: Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were
thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below
ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the
"counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word
or
the Biblical text as you call it.
They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the
counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink??
Anathema!!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
cd: A very good definition
of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group
thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the
present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such
as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in
the power of the mass.
JD writes:
In the biblical
concept of the church
I see an avenue for
continuing revelation,
and if not revelation,
certainly interpretation or understanding.
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the
biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is,
then, that the church
continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical.
A comm
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
What does your question (the first one) have to do with anything I have written in this post? You lost me. Certainly. Both words actually apply -- one leading to the other. I will leave it to your imagination as to what order I might place these two words as a result of what I have witnessed on this forum.. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> John, are you getting paranoid? Nobody accused you of preaching the occult. Also, I hope you understand the difference between 'cult' and 'occult.' David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
John, if it is any consolation, I understood your post and appreciated it. Dean has a valid point too, but it does not invalidate your point, which is what I guess you are trying to say. John, do you understand the value of having a standard (Scripture) and anointed leaders within the body of Christ? Do you believe in authority within the church? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
John, are you getting paranoid? Nobody accused you of preaching the occult. Also, I hope you understand the difference between 'cult' and 'occult.' David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis. 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey. I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd l message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne. jd
