Re: [ubuntu-marketing] How do we get one for the marketing team?
John, that sounds like an awesome idea! I personally love it myself...anybody else interested in this idea? On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 23:27 -0500, John Botscharow wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > I was just in my Firefox and noticed that I had inadvertently installed > a plug in for the Italian LoCo that has links to various pages on the > community pages for their members. I thought that was a very cool idea > and was wondering how does such a plug in come about? I'm not a > developer, so I would not even dare attempt to code one myself, but is > there someone I should contact with my ideas for a couple of custom > plug ins like the Italian one. > > How does the idea of a marketing team plug in sound? One that is > customized for the LoCo with links to various marketing pages like > Resources, Content, etc > > - -- > Peace! > > John > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIU0jEsTN+hz1Fu7URApGVAJ9zUmgZMbbRlYxD2wffgYelgwDHvACgvvj1 > YcZJ6ioaKPFlD1X+W79b8jE= > =4vRZ > -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Alan Munson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] How do we get one for the marketing team?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I was just in my Firefox and noticed that I had inadvertently installed a plug in for the Italian LoCo that has links to various pages on the community pages for their members. I thought that was a very cool idea and was wondering how does such a plug in come about? I'm not a developer, so I would not even dare attempt to code one myself, but is there someone I should contact with my ideas for a couple of custom plug ins like the Italian one. How does the idea of a marketing team plug in sound? One that is customized for the LoCo with links to various marketing pages like Resources, Content, etc - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIU0jEsTN+hz1Fu7URApGVAJ9zUmgZMbbRlYxD2wffgYelgwDHvACgvvj1 YcZJ6ioaKPFlD1X+W79b8jE= =4vRZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Ubuntu Core Marketing Team Created! Join Us!
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:56 PM, John Vilsack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Launchpad is now up and running. Mailing list is in process. An LP mailing list? Then see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2008-April/003610.html nick -- http://boredandblogging.com -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] Thanks for all the fish [was] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
Hello, This is the first time I am writing such a long mail only because its the last. Yeah, I am leaving this list too. On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Cody A.W. Somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've read every post thus far. > [snip] > > For example, John, someone (I can't remember who) was upset that you put > your personal articles on the wiki as a resource. You took them off because > of that person's complaints. If you felt you were doing the right thing, you > should have just left them there after clearly explaining your rationale or > if you realized that there was a better place to put them then move them. If > an edit war broke out, you could have asked someone like myself to > intervene. If that didn't work then you could take it to the community > council. I must admit, I find this accusation in poor taste. John was told by many folks on this list that his marketing articles belong to the personal home pages and not on the team page. I changed the pages category to "homepages" for a lot of personal pages, not just his, as i explained in an earlier mail[0], where I also explained the contents were not edited but it seems it is being blown out of proportion for unknown reasons. [0] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2008-May/003030.html Feel free to take it to the CC, just let me know the date and time and I'll see if I can make it, else treat this as an explanation. I wanted to clear this before leaving and fwiw, I have been on this list since 2005 and just maybe it may have lacked direction but it was never short of ideas and people willing to work on it. As countless folks have mentioned, if one wants to make a difference and do something they will, irrespective of whether they are appointed the leader or are a part of the core team or not. I know I did [0] and continued talking to the local distributors when nobody from Canonical got in touch with me to take it further [I also understand that they would have other priorities, which is fine, no issues :)]. [0] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2008-April/002830.html Earlier, I didnt support the idea that this team be dissolved and marketing handed to the loco's but the recent list going-ons has been more talk and trolling of a high order imho and I hoped the list-admin would put an end to it but it didnt happen. Anyway my personal obligations come before volunteering and off-late I came to realise that my time is better spent elsewhere. Tord, sorry I only completed half the translation document but I am sure others here will be able to help you out. I take this opportunity to wish all of you and this team the very best for the future and ... ...thanks for all the fish! Best, Vid || http://www.svaksha.com || -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Ubuntu Core Marketing Team Created! Join Us!
The Launchpad is now up and running. Mailing list is in process. Please feel free to sign up and join! https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-marketing -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] From the ground.
I'm following Philip. Maybe I'll come back later to see whether things have improved. I'm sad that this team doesn't work better but I'm confident that things will improve. Until then I wish all the best for those who can contribute in that direction. Simon --- Simon Schneebeli 078 619 31 18 --- Philip Newborough a écrit : > Hi All, > > I do not like to make a fuss, so I will keep this brief. I am > unsubscribing from this list. I have been a subscriber for more than a > year, but the recent noise and almost troll like behaviour > [intentional or not] has worn a little too thin for my tastes. IMHO, I > think some of the more vocal amongst us would do well to familiarise > themselves with some basic mailing list etiquette/netiquette, else > fear losing more subscribers. > > Anyhow, I wish everyone luck with their marketing endeavours. > > Cheers > > --- > Philip > > Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~corenominal > Ubuntu Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilipNewborough > Personal Homepage: http://crunchbang.org/ > > -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] From the ground.
Hi All, I do not like to make a fuss, so I will keep this brief. I am unsubscribing from this list. I have been a subscriber for more than a year, but the recent noise and almost troll like behaviour [intentional or not] has worn a little too thin for my tastes. IMHO, I think some of the more vocal amongst us would do well to familiarise themselves with some basic mailing list etiquette/netiquette, else fear losing more subscribers. Anyhow, I wish everyone luck with their marketing endeavours. Cheers --- Philip Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~corenominal Ubuntu Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilipNewborough Personal Homepage: http://crunchbang.org/ -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Ubuntu Core Marketing Team Created! Join Us!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:12:01 -0500 "John Vilsack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John B., > > I can appreciate your concerns. However the messages from the past > 24 hours have all had a good point: If the idea is good, and the > initiative is a good one, then it will flourish. If people do not > embrace it, then it wasn't meant to be. > > I do not think for a second that it will hurt to try, and we can only > learn from the experience. > > I do not think there is anything sinister in trying to organize > things, but I think having a seperate planning group exposes it more > publicly and thusly allows for more people to contribute. You never > know who is listening that is interested in hearing what we have to > say. > > I think as a collective group those that will come to be a part of the > core-marketing group would welcome what you have to say about your > project ideas. > > Thanks, > John > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:34 PM, John Botscharow > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > John V., > > > > I am not sure that a new team within this team is the solution. I am > > concerned that this solution will only compound the problems, not > > fix them. I could be wrong, but I will need to be convinced :-) > > > > There are other options that need to be discussed, and which I > > wanted to discuss somewhere other than this list, given the > > comments by a number of people who are really not interested in > > discussing this. That is why I contacted the people I knew were > > interested in taking a leadership role, to discuss how best to > > proceed with this discussion without offending half the list in the > > process. > > > > I started with those people who had expressed an explicit interest > > in doing something constructive, plus some people that Jord > > recommended. Five in all to start with. Three, including myself, > > responded. > > > > And I got "chastized" for that because people saw some sinister > > motive in my intentions. I still think a few heads are better than > > one and I still would like to have that "committee" meet and > > discuss things separate from this list. > > > > By doing it as a small group, we would have the benefit of several > > perspectives on the issues and perhaps come up with a solution that > > pleases more people than anything any one of us alone could come up > > with. Also, a small group is one step closer to a consensus than one > > person's ideas. > > > > I am still willing to do this, if the people who were originally > > invited to be part of the committee are willing. And, if you wnat to > > recommend someone to add to the list. feel free. That was going to > > be the first order of business after we work out the communication > > logistics. > > > > To those people I originally contacted, the courtesy of a reply, > > even to tell me you are not interested, would be appreciated. > > > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:59:06 -0500 > > "John Vilsack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > In order to help make the Marketing of Ubuntu more effective, a > > > new Launchpad team called the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team has been > > > created. This team will focus primarily on planning and > > > championing our projects and strategies that have an impact the > > > entire global Ubuntu community. The Core Marketers will help > > > design project plans complete with task lists that will allow any > > > contributor to help a project easily and effectively. > > > > > > Some of the rough ideas that the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team may be > > > able to help with are: > > > > > > * Creating a central repository where community members can > > > access the most up to date marketing information without having > > > to dig for it. > > > * Using Launchpad Blueprints to help give new team members a > > > concise map of the current direction of the team. > > > * Possibly using the Launchpad Bug functionality to showcase > > > which tasks are being worked on, and where contributors can lend > > > a hand. > > > * Moving the intense planning discussions off the main list of > > > marketing contributors that do not care for the exhaustive > > > rhetoric of the envisioning phase. > > > * Developing a release schedule that coincides with the Ubuntu > > > distro cycle so that materials are consistently up-to-date. > > > > > > In order for the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team to be a success, we > > > need several volunteers to help us get started: > > > > > > * A volunteer that is intimately active with the Ubuntu LoCo > > > teams willing to report the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team successes > > > and bring back information about the LoCos to the group. > > > * Someone who works with the Development teams that can help > > > parse information about upcoming distributions that we can use to > > > plan materials around. > > > * Members familiar with the wiki are needed to help publicize > > > c
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Wiki problem I don't know how to fix
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:37:56 +0200 "Søren Bredlund Caspersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:24 PM, John Botscharow > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > If you go to the Marketing Team/Toolbox/Wiki page here > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Toolbox/Wiki > > and then click on Support-->General it takes you to Massachusetts > > Team/Information > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Information and the link > > right below that one is a link to the Massachusetts tea, forum > > http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=260 and the link below > > that takes you to their not our IRC page. Do I fix this just by > > replacing the existing header with the Marketing Team header or is > > it more complicated than that? > > > > I don't know if there are other pages like this, but if it's a > > simple matter of replacing the header, I will fix this page and > > check the others as well. > > - -- > > Peace! > > > > > > John > > Massac > > Yes, it is that simple :) > > I have fixed it for the page you mentioned, feel free to look for > other pages with similar problems. > > Cheers > Søren > Aw gee, and I was hoping I'd get to do it' LOL Seriously. thanks for the help and I will keep an eye out for other pages that have the same problem and will fix them now that I know how to do it right. - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUr+MsTN+hz1Fu7URAmdWAJ9WZK1uqzch6XwIX+LPljr2tGEhFwCgzjk/ sI+M+M30s6YLgmenfcvhUoM= =SKbk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Wiki problem I don't know how to fix
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:24 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > If you go to the Marketing Team/Toolbox/Wiki page here > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Toolbox/Wiki > and then click on Support-->General it takes you to Massachusetts > Team/Information https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Information > and the link right below that one is a link to the Massachusetts tea, > forum http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=260 > and the link below that takes you to their not our IRC page. Do I fix > this just by replacing the existing header with the Marketing Team > header or is it more complicated than that? > > I don't know if there are other pages like this, but if it's a simple > matter of replacing the header, I will fix this page and check the > others as well. > - -- > Peace! > > > John > Massac Yes, it is that simple :) I have fixed it for the page you mentioned, feel free to look for other pages with similar problems. Cheers Søren -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] Wiki problem I don't know how to fix
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If you go to the Marketing Team/Toolbox/Wiki page here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Toolbox/Wiki and then click on Support-->General it takes you to Massachusetts Team/Information https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Information and the link right below that one is a link to the Massachusetts tea, forum http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=260 and the link below that takes you to their not our IRC page. Do I fix this just by replacing the existing header with the Marketing Team header or is it more complicated than that? I don't know if there are other pages like this, but if it's a simple matter of replacing the header, I will fix this page and check the others as well. - -- Peace! John Massac -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUrtvsTN+hz1Fu7URAiZTAJ9LQTkqqK4UUEwhCt4dO1AFHDXlrgCg7bqW DcBkXndlBJW+SOTe+PaVxuc= =oL7s -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Ubuntu Core Marketing Team Created! Join Us!
John B., I can appreciate your concerns. However the messages from the past 24 hours have all had a good point: If the idea is good, and the initiative is a good one, then it will flourish. If people do not embrace it, then it wasn't meant to be. I do not think for a second that it will hurt to try, and we can only learn from the experience. I do not think there is anything sinister in trying to organize things, but I think having a seperate planning group exposes it more publicly and thusly allows for more people to contribute. You never know who is listening that is interested in hearing what we have to say. I think as a collective group those that will come to be a part of the core-marketing group would welcome what you have to say about your project ideas. Thanks, John On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:34 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > John V., > > I am not sure that a new team within this team is the solution. I am > concerned that this solution will only compound the problems, not fix > them. I could be wrong, but I will need to be convinced :-) > > There are other options that need to be discussed, and which I wanted to > discuss somewhere other than this list, given the comments by a number > of people who are really not interested in discussing this. That is why > I contacted the people I knew were interested in taking a leadership > role, to discuss how best to proceed with this discussion without > offending half the list in the process. > > I started with those people who had expressed an explicit interest in > doing something constructive, plus some people that Jord recommended. > Five in all to start with. Three, including myself, responded. > > And I got "chastized" for that because people saw some sinister motive > in my intentions. I still think a few heads are better than one and I > still would like to have that "committee" meet and discuss things > separate from this list. > > By doing it as a small group, we would have the benefit of several > perspectives on the issues and perhaps come up with a solution that > pleases more people than anything any one of us alone could come up > with. Also, a small group is one step closer to a consensus than one > person's ideas. > > I am still willing to do this, if the people who were originally > invited to be part of the committee are willing. And, if you wnat to > recommend someone to add to the list. feel free. That was going to be > the first order of business after we work out the communication > logistics. > > To those people I originally contacted, the courtesy of a reply, even > to tell me you are not interested, would be appreciated. > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:59:06 -0500 > "John Vilsack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > In order to help make the Marketing of Ubuntu more effective, a new > > Launchpad team called the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team has been > > created. This team will focus primarily on planning and championing > > our projects and strategies that have an impact the entire global > > Ubuntu community. The Core Marketers will help design project plans > > complete with task lists that will allow any contributor to help a > > project easily and effectively. > > > > Some of the rough ideas that the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team may be > > able to help with are: > > > > * Creating a central repository where community members can access > > the most up to date marketing information without having to dig for > > it. > > * Using Launchpad Blueprints to help give new team members a concise > > map of the current direction of the team. > > * Possibly using the Launchpad Bug functionality to showcase which > > tasks are being worked on, and where contributors can lend a hand. > > * Moving the intense planning discussions off the main list of > > marketing contributors that do not care for the exhaustive rhetoric > > of the envisioning phase. > > * Developing a release schedule that coincides with the Ubuntu > > distro cycle so that materials are consistently up-to-date. > > > > In order for the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team to be a success, we need > > several volunteers to help us get started: > > > > * A volunteer that is intimately active with the Ubuntu LoCo teams > > willing to report the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team successes and bring > > back information about the LoCos to the group. > > * Someone who works with the Development teams that can help parse > > information about upcoming distributions that we can use to plan > > materials around. > > * Members familiar with the wiki are needed to help publicize core > > marketing initiatives. > > * Leaders from the existing projects (SpreadUbuntu, Studio, etc.) to > > join us and to contribute when it comes to their projects or > > relationships with other projects. > > * The best and brightest minds willing to step up and help create > > and pilot exciting marketing projects for the whole Ubuntu Communit
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Ubuntu Core Marketing Team Created! Join Us!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John V., I am not sure that a new team within this team is the solution. I am concerned that this solution will only compound the problems, not fix them. I could be wrong, but I will need to be convinced :-) There are other options that need to be discussed, and which I wanted to discuss somewhere other than this list, given the comments by a number of people who are really not interested in discussing this. That is why I contacted the people I knew were interested in taking a leadership role, to discuss how best to proceed with this discussion without offending half the list in the process. I started with those people who had expressed an explicit interest in doing something constructive, plus some people that Jord recommended. Five in all to start with. Three, including myself, responded. And I got "chastized" for that because people saw some sinister motive in my intentions. I still think a few heads are better than one and I still would like to have that "committee" meet and discuss things separate from this list. By doing it as a small group, we would have the benefit of several perspectives on the issues and perhaps come up with a solution that pleases more people than anything any one of us alone could come up with. Also, a small group is one step closer to a consensus than one person's ideas. I am still willing to do this, if the people who were originally invited to be part of the committee are willing. And, if you wnat to recommend someone to add to the list. feel free. That was going to be the first order of business after we work out the communication logistics. To those people I originally contacted, the courtesy of a reply, even to tell me you are not interested, would be appreciated. On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:59:06 -0500 "John Vilsack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In order to help make the Marketing of Ubuntu more effective, a new > Launchpad team called the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team has been > created. This team will focus primarily on planning and championing > our projects and strategies that have an impact the entire global > Ubuntu community. The Core Marketers will help design project plans > complete with task lists that will allow any contributor to help a > project easily and effectively. > > Some of the rough ideas that the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team may be > able to help with are: > > * Creating a central repository where community members can access > the most up to date marketing information without having to dig for > it. > * Using Launchpad Blueprints to help give new team members a concise > map of the current direction of the team. > * Possibly using the Launchpad Bug functionality to showcase which > tasks are being worked on, and where contributors can lend a hand. > * Moving the intense planning discussions off the main list of > marketing contributors that do not care for the exhaustive rhetoric > of the envisioning phase. > * Developing a release schedule that coincides with the Ubuntu > distro cycle so that materials are consistently up-to-date. > > In order for the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team to be a success, we need > several volunteers to help us get started: > > * A volunteer that is intimately active with the Ubuntu LoCo teams > willing to report the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team successes and bring > back information about the LoCos to the group. > * Someone who works with the Development teams that can help parse > information about upcoming distributions that we can use to plan > materials around. > * Members familiar with the wiki are needed to help publicize core > marketing initiatives. > * Leaders from the existing projects (SpreadUbuntu, Studio, etc.) to > join us and to contribute when it comes to their projects or > relationships with other projects. > * The best and brightest minds willing to step up and help create > and pilot exciting marketing projects for the whole Ubuntu Community > to use. > * Volunteers with positive attitudes that understand how to convey > excitement to others about new project ideas. > > If you are someone who feels the desire to contribute by helping to > plan or lead projects, sign up to come join the Ubuntu Core Marketing > Team today. The group is meant to be a transparent addition to the > ubuntu-marketing team that helps the ideas we have together become a > reality. We will use Launchpad, the wiki, and the mailing lists to > communicate with each other and the rest of the community, so please > feel free to contribute in any fashion you would like. > > Please join us in our effort to create the building blocks needed by > the Ubuntu Community to spread Ubuntu throughout the world! > > Thank you very much, > John Vilsack - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUq+IsTN+hz1Fu7URAjDEAKDCDswB3A7CQvJrTmuRl7ZRfEkOJgCg3Ben DHqjvRut1yQohuQoYL4e7Ok= =HuFX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:28:05 -0300 "Cody A.W. Somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:43 PM, John Botscharow > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:34:20 -0300 > > "Cody A.W. Somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I've read every post thus far. > > > > Whew, then I don't need to bore everyone by repeating myself. :-) > > > > > > The reason I ask why you're getting so frustrated is because each > > > and every one of you are *enabled* to do your part to market > > > Ubuntu. Some might say they lack authority but let me put that > > > concern to bed - just say "I want to do this. If you're > > > interested in helping me, help me.". Some people will be critical > > > and others will think your idea is the best thing since sliced > > > bread. Work with the latter group and remove the doubt from the > > > former group by showing that your idea was and is a good idea by > > > being successful in executing it. > > > > And I got criticized for doing just that - the negative comments > > about off list discussions about developing a leadership proposal. > > > Unfortunately there will always be people who disagree with you. You > just have to roll with it :) Understood and assimilated. TY. > > > > > > > > And yes, I would like to help you. Contact me directly and let me > > know what you need help with. This will go a long way toward > > helping me learn the ropes here. More on this below. > > > > > > For example, John, someone (I can't remember who) was upset that > > > you put your personal articles on the wiki as a resource. You > > > took them off because of that person's complaints. If you felt > > > you were doing the right thing, you should have just left them > > > there after clearly explaining your rationale or if you realized > > > that there was a better place to put them then move them. If an > > > edit war broke out, you could have asked someone like myself to > > > intervene. If that didn't work then you could take it to the > > > community council. > > > > This is the main source of my frustration. I had no idea when that > > happened whether I really had the right to put them there or not. No > > one explained to me how things work, all they said was just do it > > and every time I did, I got criticized. I had no idea who to ask > > whether I really had to take them down. No one said, "John, it's > > your decision and here's what you do to deal with any negative > > feedback. > > > > As far as explaining my rationale for putting them there, I thought > > I did. > > > > At the time, I had no idea you even existed :-) I had no clue who to > > ask and given the way I felt at the time, I was not going to ask on > > this list. > > > > A suggestion: develop a guide for new people to the community that > > explains in simple terms - Ubuntu community for dummies - how things > > work, who to ask for advice, and don't say anyone on this list, > > because that did not work for me. More below. > > > There is material on the wiki but unfortunately even if we had every > piece of information written down it would still be difficult for > newcomers such as yourself to digest it. Joining a new community, > starting a new job, etc. is *always* a challenge. I will see if I can find it and take a look at it. Maybe I can figure out a way to make it more accessible to new people. > > > > > > > > > > There is no gurantees that you'll get help from others on your > > > project. Don't let that discourage you. If you honestly believe in > > > your idea, go for it! *Just* *do* *it*. If it is a super horrible > > > idea, you'll get flamed. If it is a good idea, you'll get > > > admiration and respect and you'll have an oppertunity to be a > > > leader. I don't have a problem doing it on my own, if need be. It would be nice to have some help, but not necessary. Given how I felt a couple of days ago, I would have preferred to just do it on my own and not say anything to anyone about it, but decided to try it the "FOSS" way, just to see what would happen. > > > > I never set out to be a leader. I took it on because no one else > > did. I have no need for power personally, but this team needs to > > get some direction and some structure and that direction and > > structure needs to be laid out clearly and plainly so someone > > unfamiliar with how things work can get real help, not just go do > > it. That works fine if you kbow HOW to do it, but if you don't, and > > no one really explains it you then that leads to frustration. > > > I understand how you feel. I used to be in the same boat with wanting > to get Xubuntu off the ground. It took me several years to get to > where I am today > - comfortable. I will try to be patient but I reserve my right to split :-) > > > > > > And, I have tried to just do it - see > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBot
[ubuntu-marketing] Ubuntu Core Marketing Team Created! Join Us!
In order to help make the Marketing of Ubuntu more effective, a new Launchpad team called the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team has been created. This team will focus primarily on planning and championing our projects and strategies that have an impact the entire global Ubuntu community. The Core Marketers will help design project plans complete with task lists that will allow any contributor to help a project easily and effectively. Some of the rough ideas that the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team may be able to help with are: * Creating a central repository where community members can access the most up to date marketing information without having to dig for it. * Using Launchpad Blueprints to help give new team members a concise map of the current direction of the team. * Possibly using the Launchpad Bug functionality to showcase which tasks are being worked on, and where contributors can lend a hand. * Moving the intense planning discussions off the main list of marketing contributors that do not care for the exhaustive rhetoric of the envisioning phase. * Developing a release schedule that coincides with the Ubuntu distro cycle so that materials are consistently up-to-date. In order for the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team to be a success, we need several volunteers to help us get started: * A volunteer that is intimately active with the Ubuntu LoCo teams willing to report the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team successes and bring back information about the LoCos to the group. * Someone who works with the Development teams that can help parse information about upcoming distributions that we can use to plan materials around. * Members familiar with the wiki are needed to help publicize core marketing initiatives. * Leaders from the existing projects (SpreadUbuntu, Studio, etc.) to join us and to contribute when it comes to their projects or relationships with other projects. * The best and brightest minds willing to step up and help create and pilot exciting marketing projects for the whole Ubuntu Community to use. * Volunteers with positive attitudes that understand how to convey excitement to others about new project ideas. If you are someone who feels the desire to contribute by helping to plan or lead projects, sign up to come join the Ubuntu Core Marketing Team today. The group is meant to be a transparent addition to the ubuntu-marketing team that helps the ideas we have together become a reality. We will use Launchpad, the wiki, and the mailing lists to communicate with each other and the rest of the community, so please feel free to contribute in any fashion you would like. Please join us in our effort to create the building blocks needed by the Ubuntu Community to spread Ubuntu throughout the world! Thank you very much, John Vilsack -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
All, I think enough has been said about what we all think on the matter and we stand on the precipice of doing nothing, or doing something. I'm one for progress. I think the best course of action is to try out something new and to see how it plays out. I agree with Onno that whatever is done should be inclusive and not exclusive. At the same time, something must be done to seperate the endless planning from those that just wish to contribute. And those that contribute should have a place they can go to get informed right away and begin working immediately. So I am about to post my solution. I hope you all embrace it. This group, that group, this community...our entire world...they all work best when we all work together. Isn't that what this is supposed to be all about? Thanks, John Vilsack -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Team wiki changes
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:40 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > I made the following changes to the Resources page under the > "Information" heading: I added a link to a new sub-page of the > Resources page. The link is entitled "Marketing Articles" which is a > table of contents to marketing articles that I feel are useful > information for both team members as well as the wider Ubuntu > community. They provide both theoretical and practical knowledge on > marketing, and especially guerrilla marketing. often referred to on > this list as street-marketing or DIY marketing. > > The articles are currently on my personal wiki but I will move them to > the team wiki as time permits. I have removed as much personal > information as possible, including author information and copyright > notice and have credited these articles to the team in general on the > Resources page. > > I feel this article archive belongs on the marketing team wiki rather > than my own becuase they provide information that is relevant and > useful to the mission and goals of the team. Whether I get personal > credit for them is irrelevant to me. > > Here's the link to the new page: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Resources/MarketingArticles > > And if someone would be so kind as to tell me where to find the delete > page link, I will delete the version of this page that currently exists > on my own wiki, thereby hopefully, avoiding any inappropriate linking > between my personal wiki and the team wiki It is all one wiki :) You're welcome to keep the article located at / and link to it from the MarketingTeam/Resources/MarketingArticles > > > > - -- > Peace! > > John > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIUqLrsTN+hz1Fu7URAoywAJ9zveCN/NhSPoTFz2/CpmwmvNz+sQCg1kV6 > sousgk5blgJsiS+eIpOVe24= > =+ESa > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > -- Cody A.W. Somerville Software Engineer Red Cow Marketing & Technologies, Inc. Office: 506-458-1290 Toll Free: 1-877-733-2699 Fax: 506-453-9112 Cell: 506-449-5899 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.redcow.ca -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] Team wiki changes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I made the following changes to the Resources page under the "Information" heading: I added a link to a new sub-page of the Resources page. The link is entitled "Marketing Articles" which is a table of contents to marketing articles that I feel are useful information for both team members as well as the wider Ubuntu community. They provide both theoretical and practical knowledge on marketing, and especially guerrilla marketing. often referred to on this list as street-marketing or DIY marketing. The articles are currently on my personal wiki but I will move them to the team wiki as time permits. I have removed as much personal information as possible, including author information and copyright notice and have credited these articles to the team in general on the Resources page. I feel this article archive belongs on the marketing team wiki rather than my own becuase they provide information that is relevant and useful to the mission and goals of the team. Whether I get personal credit for them is irrelevant to me. Here's the link to the new page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Resources/MarketingArticles And if someone would be so kind as to tell me where to find the delete page link, I will delete the version of this page that currently exists on my own wiki, thereby hopefully, avoiding any inappropriate linking between my personal wiki and the team wiki - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUqLrsTN+hz1Fu7URAoywAJ9zveCN/NhSPoTFz2/CpmwmvNz+sQCg1kV6 sousgk5blgJsiS+eIpOVe24= =+ESa -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:43 PM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:34:20 -0300 > "Cody A.W. Somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I've read every post thus far. > > Whew, then I don't need to bore everyone by repeating myself. :-) > > > > The reason I ask why you're getting so frustrated is because each and > > every one of you are *enabled* to do your part to market Ubuntu. Some > > might say they lack authority but let me put that concern to bed - > > just say "I want to do this. If you're interested in helping me, help > > me.". Some people will be critical and others will think your idea is > > the best thing since sliced bread. Work with the latter group and > > remove the doubt from the former group by showing that your idea was > > and is a good idea by being successful in executing it. > > And I got criticized for doing just that - the negative comments about > off list discussions about developing a leadership proposal. Unfortunately there will always be people who disagree with you. You just have to roll with it :) > > > And yes, I would like to help you. Contact me directly and let me know > what you need help with. This will go a long way toward helping me > learn the ropes here. More on this below. > > > > For example, John, someone (I can't remember who) was upset that you > > put your personal articles on the wiki as a resource. You took them > > off because of that person's complaints. If you felt you were doing > > the right thing, you should have just left them there after clearly > > explaining your rationale or if you realized that there was a better > > place to put them then move them. If an edit war broke out, you could > > have asked someone like myself to intervene. If that didn't work then > > you could take it to the community council. > > This is the main source of my frustration. I had no idea when that > happened whether I really had the right to put them there or not. No > one explained to me how things work, all they said was just do it and > every time I did, I got criticized. I had no idea who to ask whether I > really had to take them down. No one said, "John, it's your decision > and here's what you do to deal with any negative feedback. > > As far as explaining my rationale for putting them there, I thought I > did. > > At the time, I had no idea you even existed :-) I had no clue who to > ask and given the way I felt at the time, I was not going to ask on > this list. > > A suggestion: develop a guide for new people to the community that > explains in simple terms - Ubuntu community for dummies - how things > work, who to ask for advice, and don't say anyone on this list, because > that did not work for me. More below. There is material on the wiki but unfortunately even if we had every piece of information written down it would still be difficult for newcomers such as yourself to digest it. Joining a new community, starting a new job, etc. is *always* a challenge. > > > > > There is no gurantees that you'll get help from others on your > > project. Don't let that discourage you. If you honestly believe in > > your idea, go for it! *Just* *do* *it*. If it is a super horrible > > idea, you'll get flamed. If it is a good idea, you'll get admiration > > and respect and you'll have an oppertunity to be a leader. > > I never set out to be a leader. I took it on because no one else did. I > have no need for power personally, but this team needs to get some > direction and some structure and that direction and structure needs to > be laid out clearly and plainly so someone unfamiliar with how things > work can get real help, not just go do it. That works fine if you kbow > HOW to do it, but if you don't, and no one really explains it you then > that leads to frustration. I understand how you feel. I used to be in the same boat with wanting to get Xubuntu off the ground. It took me several years to get to where I am today - comfortable. > > And, I have tried to just do it - see > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow/Android and I posted a request > for help - suggestions, comments, feedback - and all I got was one > somewhat negative comment because either the person reading the page > misunderstood what I was talking about or I need to clarify things a > little better. I AM going to go see if I can make it clearer that this > IS about marketing Ubuntu and not something else. > > All of this boils down to accountability and responsibility. Some > constructive criticism, Cody. Your the only team administrator > currently active. So you alone are ultimately accountable for and > responsible for this team, in my opinion. We can not market effectively > if we work like a bunch of guys on a basketball court, each with their > own ball and each running around the floor with no coordination while > trying to beat the Chicago Bulls back when they were the world > champions all
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:34:20 -0300 "Cody A.W. Somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've read every post thus far. Whew, then I don't need to bore everyone by repeating myself. :-) > > The reason I ask why you're getting so frustrated is because each and > every one of you are *enabled* to do your part to market Ubuntu. Some > might say they lack authority but let me put that concern to bed - > just say "I want to do this. If you're interested in helping me, help > me.". Some people will be critical and others will think your idea is > the best thing since sliced bread. Work with the latter group and > remove the doubt from the former group by showing that your idea was > and is a good idea by being successful in executing it. And I got criticized for doing just that - the negative comments about off list discussions about developing a leadership proposal. And yes, I would like to help you. Contact me directly and let me know what you need help with. This will go a long way toward helping me learn the ropes here. More on this below. > > For example, John, someone (I can't remember who) was upset that you > put your personal articles on the wiki as a resource. You took them > off because of that person's complaints. If you felt you were doing > the right thing, you should have just left them there after clearly > explaining your rationale or if you realized that there was a better > place to put them then move them. If an edit war broke out, you could > have asked someone like myself to intervene. If that didn't work then > you could take it to the community council. This is the main source of my frustration. I had no idea when that happened whether I really had the right to put them there or not. No one explained to me how things work, all they said was just do it and every time I did, I got criticized. I had no idea who to ask whether I really had to take them down. No one said, "John, it's your decision and here's what you do to deal with any negative feedback. As far as explaining my rationale for putting them there, I thought I did. At the time, I had no idea you even existed :-) I had no clue who to ask and given the way I felt at the time, I was not going to ask on this list. A suggestion: develop a guide for new people to the community that explains in simple terms - Ubuntu community for dummies - how things work, who to ask for advice, and don't say anyone on this list, because that did not work for me. More below. > > There is no gurantees that you'll get help from others on your > project. Don't let that discourage you. If you honestly believe in > your idea, go for it! *Just* *do* *it*. If it is a super horrible > idea, you'll get flamed. If it is a good idea, you'll get admiration > and respect and you'll have an oppertunity to be a leader. I never set out to be a leader. I took it on because no one else did. I have no need for power personally, but this team needs to get some direction and some structure and that direction and structure needs to be laid out clearly and plainly so someone unfamiliar with how things work can get real help, not just go do it. That works fine if you kbow HOW to do it, but if you don't, and no one really explains it you then that leads to frustration. And, I have tried to just do it - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBotscharow/Android and I posted a request for help - suggestions, comments, feedback - and all I got was one somewhat negative comment because either the person reading the page misunderstood what I was talking about or I need to clarify things a little better. I AM going to go see if I can make it clearer that this IS about marketing Ubuntu and not something else. All of this boils down to accountability and responsibility. Some constructive criticism, Cody. Your the only team administrator currently active. So you alone are ultimately accountable for and responsible for this team, in my opinion. We can not market effectively if we work like a bunch of guys on a basketball court, each with their own ball and each running around the floor with no coordination while trying to beat the Chicago Bulls back when they were the world champions all those years. There has to be a game plan and a playbook that everyone uses and buys into. But that playbook and game plan is not the responsibility of the individual players to design, there has to be a coaching staff to do that. We are those guys running around with no game plan and no playbook and no coaching staff. Microsoft is the Jordan-era Bulls. And we are getting our butts kicked and will continue to do so until we develop a coaching staff, a game plan, and a playbook. You're the head coach, but you cannot do it alone. Hire some assistant coaches to help you, but make sure everybody knows who they are and what they are responsible and accountable for. Contrary to the myth we perpetuate on our team wiki page, I think that's where it is -
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:20 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:45:47 -0300 > "Cody A.W. Somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 9:11 AM, John Botscharow > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Tord, > > > > > > Thank you for clarifying that for us all. Being relatively new > > > here, I was actually beginning to believe the myth myself, hard as > > > it was to try and swallow. > > > > > > And for the sake of honesty and openness, duplication, or as I like > > > to refer to it - secession - is an option that I am not ruling out > > > for myself. Depends on what happens here in the next few days. > > > > > > I don't understand why you're getting so frustrated and feel the need > > to consider withdrawing from the marketing team. Can you help me > > understand? > > > > I don't want to jump to conclusions, so let me reply for now with a > question to you, Cody: > > How much of the discussion the last few weeks have you read? I'm > getting the impression that you are a bit behind in your reading, but > want to make sure that is correct before replying directly to your > question. I've read every post thus far. The reason I ask why you're getting so frustrated is because each and every one of you are *enabled* to do your part to market Ubuntu. Some might say they lack authority but let me put that concern to bed - just say "I want to do this. If you're interested in helping me, help me.". Some people will be critical and others will think your idea is the best thing since sliced bread. Work with the latter group and remove the doubt from the former group by showing that your idea was and is a good idea by being successful in executing it. For example, John, someone (I can't remember who) was upset that you put your personal articles on the wiki as a resource. You took them off because of that person's complaints. If you felt you were doing the right thing, you should have just left them there after clearly explaining your rationale or if you realized that there was a better place to put them then move them. If an edit war broke out, you could have asked someone like myself to intervene. If that didn't work then you could take it to the community council. There is no gurantees that you'll get help from others on your project. Don't let that discourage you. If you honestly believe in your idea, go for it! *Just* *do* *it*. If it is a super horrible idea, you'll get flamed. If it is a good idea, you'll get admiration and respect and you'll have an oppertunity to be a leader. > > > - -- > Peace! > > John > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIUoI0sTN+hz1Fu7URAoM0AKCwDdOCPvnH+PlJlZBAOHB9PEf9PgCg1GVt > 7cWaQpn0+WxyZJfkfbDIUAw= > =QWmh > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > -- Cody A.W. Somerville Software Engineer Red Cow Marketing & Technologies, Inc. Office: 506-458-1290 Toll Free: 1-877-733-2699 Fax: 506-453-9112 Cell: 506-449-5899 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.redcow.ca -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] Fwd: Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
Cody, I'm not speaking for John here, just for myself since I, after having been on this list for just a few days, have the same feeling and your question could as well have been directed towards me: I'm seriously thinking to withdraw since I'm eager to do some serious work to market Ubuntu in any way I can and this is obviously not the place to do it, at least not yet. Attempts to move forward have so far been met with little or no interest or in some cases even aggressive resistance which was totally anti-productive. Hopefully things will shape up in the future. Maybe the organization just needs to mature a bit more first but I believe it's gonna be a long ride and I'm not gonna sit here and wait for the bus, I spend my time doing something to market Ubuntu instead. I can be more efficient going alone or with others sharing my mindset than trying to work within the rules and boundaries of this group, so it simply makes sense for me to reach out on my own. I'll probably post things on this list when I've done or found something that I think can be of value to others trying to market Ubuntu since I'm sure a lot of interested people read here. Except from that I'll put my focus somewhere else. No offense meant to anyone, I wish you all good luck and hope that we all contribute to our common goal of growing the Ubuntu userbase. I just don't believe in what seems to be your current direction. Regards, Tord 2008/6/13 Cody A.W. Somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 9:11 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Tord, >> >> Thank you for clarifying that for us all. Being relatively new here, I >> was actually beginning to believe the myth myself, hard as it was to >> try and swallow. >> >> And for the sake of honesty and openness, duplication, or as I like to >> refer to it - secession - is an option that I am not ruling out for >> myself. Depends on what happens here in the next few days. > > > I don't understand why you're getting so frustrated and feel the need to > consider withdrawing from the marketing team. Can you help me understand? > > >> >> >> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:56:21 +0200 >> "Tord Jansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > Just a quick note to clear up one central misconception: >> > >> > There is no one single way in which all FOSS projects work. Some >> > people here are trying to spread that mantra but that is in my >> > opinion a myth. There are tens of thousands of FOSS projects out >> > there which are organized in totally different ways. >> > >> > They also very often have strong central leadership with a clear >> > focus and a select few with commit access to CVS repositories, >> > administration rights to web pages etc. They are seldom democratic in >> > the normal sense with voting etc and many have even dictators for >> > life (Theo DeRaadt of OpenBSD seems like a good example, correct me >> > if I'm wrong). >> > >> > What separates them from non FOSS projects is mainly a high level of >> > transparency and openness. The concept of being able to fork the >> > project is also very central, making it easy for a group to break out >> > and do their own thing if the current leadership doesn't work for >> > them. This all helps to keep it honest and focused on the important >> > goals since the whole project, including its leaders, easily can be >> > replaced by a duplicate at any time. >> > >> > >> > >> > Regards, >> > Tord >> > >> > >> > 2008/6/13 John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> > >> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> > > Hash: SHA1 >> > > >> > > For those who do not wish to read and/or participate in >> > > strategy/structure discussions, feel free to ignore this message. >> > > >> > > I have heard a lot of discussion here about how things work in a >> > > FOSS community and want to offer some insights on that and how it >> > > relates to what marketing is. This is a lengthy post, but I would >> > > very much appreciate you all reading it in its entirety before >> > > commenting. >> > > >> > > When you talk about FOSS communities and how they do things, that >> > > seems to be referring to communities of developers - operative word >> > > here. That model works well with things like software packages, >> > > documentation projects, translation projects. even artwork projects >> > > - where you are producing a discrete tangible product. But >> > > marketing, although it uses discrete tangible products, and one >> > > might even consider a specific marketing campaign like the one I am >> > > working out, as a tangible, discrete product, the real purpose of >> > > marketing, especially marketing something like Ubuntu is much more >> > > intangible. >> > > >> > > We are trying to change the way people think and feel and act - >> > > their buying habits. Every marketing project is or should be >> > > focused on that goal, and that goal alone. Yes, a specific >> > > marketing projec
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:45:47 -0300 "Cody A.W. Somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 9:11 AM, John Botscharow > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Tord, > > > > Thank you for clarifying that for us all. Being relatively new > > here, I was actually beginning to believe the myth myself, hard as > > it was to try and swallow. > > > > And for the sake of honesty and openness, duplication, or as I like > > to refer to it - secession - is an option that I am not ruling out > > for myself. Depends on what happens here in the next few days. > > > I don't understand why you're getting so frustrated and feel the need > to consider withdrawing from the marketing team. Can you help me > understand? > I don't want to jump to conclusions, so let me reply for now with a question to you, Cody: How much of the discussion the last few weeks have you read? I'm getting the impression that you are a bit behind in your reading, but want to make sure that is correct before replying directly to your question. - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUoI0sTN+hz1Fu7URAoM0AKCwDdOCPvnH+PlJlZBAOHB9PEf9PgCg1GVt 7cWaQpn0+WxyZJfkfbDIUAw= =QWmh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 9:11 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Tord, > > Thank you for clarifying that for us all. Being relatively new here, I > was actually beginning to believe the myth myself, hard as it was to > try and swallow. > > And for the sake of honesty and openness, duplication, or as I like to > refer to it - secession - is an option that I am not ruling out for > myself. Depends on what happens here in the next few days. I don't understand why you're getting so frustrated and feel the need to consider withdrawing from the marketing team. Can you help me understand? > > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:56:21 +0200 > "Tord Jansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Just a quick note to clear up one central misconception: > > > > There is no one single way in which all FOSS projects work. Some > > people here are trying to spread that mantra but that is in my > > opinion a myth. There are tens of thousands of FOSS projects out > > there which are organized in totally different ways. > > > > They also very often have strong central leadership with a clear > > focus and a select few with commit access to CVS repositories, > > administration rights to web pages etc. They are seldom democratic in > > the normal sense with voting etc and many have even dictators for > > life (Theo DeRaadt of OpenBSD seems like a good example, correct me > > if I'm wrong). > > > > What separates them from non FOSS projects is mainly a high level of > > transparency and openness. The concept of being able to fork the > > project is also very central, making it easy for a group to break out > > and do their own thing if the current leadership doesn't work for > > them. This all helps to keep it honest and focused on the important > > goals since the whole project, including its leaders, easily can be > > replaced by a duplicate at any time. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Tord > > > > > > 2008/6/13 John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > For those who do not wish to read and/or participate in > > > strategy/structure discussions, feel free to ignore this message. > > > > > > I have heard a lot of discussion here about how things work in a > > > FOSS community and want to offer some insights on that and how it > > > relates to what marketing is. This is a lengthy post, but I would > > > very much appreciate you all reading it in its entirety before > > > commenting. > > > > > > When you talk about FOSS communities and how they do things, that > > > seems to be referring to communities of developers - operative word > > > here. That model works well with things like software packages, > > > documentation projects, translation projects. even artwork projects > > > - where you are producing a discrete tangible product. But > > > marketing, although it uses discrete tangible products, and one > > > might even consider a specific marketing campaign like the one I am > > > working out, as a tangible, discrete product, the real purpose of > > > marketing, especially marketing something like Ubuntu is much more > > > intangible. > > > > > > We are trying to change the way people think and feel and act - > > > their buying habits. Every marketing project is or should be > > > focused on that goal, and that goal alone. Yes, a specific > > > marketing project can have a more specific tangible goal, like > > > giving away 1000 LiveCDs at a convention, but that goal does not > > > exist outside of or separate from, the overall goal of changing > > > peoples minds and behavior. > > > > > > Any of these tangible discrete marketing projects that is not done > > > within the context of the greater marketing goal is not really > > > serious marketing. And because of this need for integration into > > > the greater marketing goal, there has to be some kind of "power" > > > structure - a lead marketer is the term used in a lot of marketing > > > agencies - to ensure that individual projects are integrated and > > > coordinated with each other. That is not something that can be done > > > by consensus or anarchy. Someone - either an individual or a > > > committee - has to take responsibility for that. > > > > > > This individual/committee has to take responsibility for achieving > > > the marketing needs and goals of the customer - in this case, the > > > Ubuntu community. Someone has to be held accountable for meeting > > > those needs. > > > > > > There is, IMHO, no one, not ever Cody, the team administrator, who > > > is held accountable for or takes responsibility for whether the > > > marketing team is meeting the marketing needs of the Ubuntu > > > community. > > > > > > That is what I am working on in discussions with some other people > > > on this team who have expressed interest in team leadership - a > > > proposal for a group of marketers who will be responsible for and > > > held accountable for ac
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 There goes someone we can ill afford to lose. Cory, you will be missed, and I promise to give you a call. I won't "hit you up" because, for my generation at least. that has sexual connotations, and frankly, you're not my type. LOL Pax vobiscum. Cory! John On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:21:50 -0400 "Cory K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm sorry but the people who think a couple of emails off-list to help > keep the noise down are against some zealot-like notion of FLOSS is > simply astounding. > > And honestly I'm not surprised. So many people around here want to > whine and talk but never do anything. Immediately jump to the negative > conclusion when something even has the *slightly* hint at being > perceived as shady instead of giving the benefit of the doubt. Is that > Ubuntu? I think not. > > I have asked *many* times and only a couple have stepped to say > "Yeah. I can lead. I can *do* something." > > If those people can ever actually wrangle the rest of the list into > some semblance of a team it will be a miracle. Before the future of > this list was in question this was the lowest-traffic list I was on. > One email a month. *Maybe*. Now it the end of the world if there's a > couple of private email. Gimmie a break. > > When the team leads have finally got through this nonsense and > established themselves (which is the #1 thing to do ATM), hit me up. > I'll be glad to re-join the list and help. > > -Cory K. > - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUmrdsTN+hz1Fu7URAkg5AKC8V8OsVecJpuXJIHlw2EZZRY3D3gCg8r7n PPm/qVF1GmzUcewwr7hd7Ks= =lrQW -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
I'm sorry but the people who think a couple of emails off-list to help keep the noise down are against some zealot-like notion of FLOSS is simply astounding. And honestly I'm not surprised. So many people around here want to whine and talk but never do anything. Immediately jump to the negative conclusion when something even has the *slightly* hint at being perceived as shady instead of giving the benefit of the doubt. Is that Ubuntu? I think not. I have asked *many* times and only a couple have stepped to say "Yeah. I can lead. I can *do* something." If those people can ever actually wrangle the rest of the list into some semblance of a team it will be a miracle. Before the future of this list was in question this was the lowest-traffic list I was on. One email a month. *Maybe*. Now it the end of the world if there's a couple of private email. Gimmie a break. When the team leads have finally got through this nonsense and established themselves (which is the #1 thing to do ATM), hit me up. I'll be glad to re-join the list and help. -Cory K. -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tord, Thank you for clarifying that for us all. Being relatively new here, I was actually beginning to believe the myth myself, hard as it was to try and swallow. And for the sake of honesty and openness, duplication, or as I like to refer to it - secession - is an option that I am not ruling out for myself. Depends on what happens here in the next few days. On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:56:21 +0200 "Tord Jansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a quick note to clear up one central misconception: > > There is no one single way in which all FOSS projects work. Some > people here are trying to spread that mantra but that is in my > opinion a myth. There are tens of thousands of FOSS projects out > there which are organized in totally different ways. > > They also very often have strong central leadership with a clear > focus and a select few with commit access to CVS repositories, > administration rights to web pages etc. They are seldom democratic in > the normal sense with voting etc and many have even dictators for > life (Theo DeRaadt of OpenBSD seems like a good example, correct me > if I'm wrong). > > What separates them from non FOSS projects is mainly a high level of > transparency and openness. The concept of being able to fork the > project is also very central, making it easy for a group to break out > and do their own thing if the current leadership doesn't work for > them. This all helps to keep it honest and focused on the important > goals since the whole project, including its leaders, easily can be > replaced by a duplicate at any time. > > > > Regards, > Tord > > > 2008/6/13 John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > For those who do not wish to read and/or participate in > > strategy/structure discussions, feel free to ignore this message. > > > > I have heard a lot of discussion here about how things work in a > > FOSS community and want to offer some insights on that and how it > > relates to what marketing is. This is a lengthy post, but I would > > very much appreciate you all reading it in its entirety before > > commenting. > > > > When you talk about FOSS communities and how they do things, that > > seems to be referring to communities of developers - operative word > > here. That model works well with things like software packages, > > documentation projects, translation projects. even artwork projects > > - where you are producing a discrete tangible product. But > > marketing, although it uses discrete tangible products, and one > > might even consider a specific marketing campaign like the one I am > > working out, as a tangible, discrete product, the real purpose of > > marketing, especially marketing something like Ubuntu is much more > > intangible. > > > > We are trying to change the way people think and feel and act - > > their buying habits. Every marketing project is or should be > > focused on that goal, and that goal alone. Yes, a specific > > marketing project can have a more specific tangible goal, like > > giving away 1000 LiveCDs at a convention, but that goal does not > > exist outside of or separate from, the overall goal of changing > > peoples minds and behavior. > > > > Any of these tangible discrete marketing projects that is not done > > within the context of the greater marketing goal is not really > > serious marketing. And because of this need for integration into > > the greater marketing goal, there has to be some kind of "power" > > structure - a lead marketer is the term used in a lot of marketing > > agencies - to ensure that individual projects are integrated and > > coordinated with each other. That is not something that can be done > > by consensus or anarchy. Someone - either an individual or a > > committee - has to take responsibility for that. > > > > This individual/committee has to take responsibility for achieving > > the marketing needs and goals of the customer - in this case, the > > Ubuntu community. Someone has to be held accountable for meeting > > those needs. > > > > There is, IMHO, no one, not ever Cody, the team administrator, who > > is held accountable for or takes responsibility for whether the > > marketing team is meeting the marketing needs of the Ubuntu > > community. > > > > That is what I am working on in discussions with some other people > > on this team who have expressed interest in team leadership - a > > proposal for a group of marketers who will be responsible for and > > held accountable for achieving the marketing goal - Fixing Bug #1 - > > of the Ubuntu community. And, IMHO, that is what the entire Ubuntu > > community is waiting for us to do - why they are so interested in > > this discussion. > > > > Given that no one, as far as I can tell, has much of a marketing > > success track record, operative word being marketing, selecting this > > committee by meritocracy is not possible. An election is an
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
Just a quick note to clear up one central misconception: There is no one single way in which all FOSS projects work. Some people here are trying to spread that mantra but that is in my opinion a myth. There are tens of thousands of FOSS projects out there which are organized in totally different ways. They also very often have strong central leadership with a clear focus and a select few with commit access to CVS repositories, administration rights to web pages etc. They are seldom democratic in the normal sense with voting etc and many have even dictators for life (Theo DeRaadt of OpenBSD seems like a good example, correct me if I'm wrong). What separates them from non FOSS projects is mainly a high level of transparency and openness. The concept of being able to fork the project is also very central, making it easy for a group to break out and do their own thing if the current leadership doesn't work for them. This all helps to keep it honest and focused on the important goals since the whole project, including its leaders, easily can be replaced by a duplicate at any time. Regards, Tord 2008/6/13 John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > For those who do not wish to read and/or participate in > strategy/structure discussions, feel free to ignore this message. > > I have heard a lot of discussion here about how things work in a FOSS > community and want to offer some insights on that and how it relates to > what marketing is. This is a lengthy post, but I would very much > appreciate you all reading it in its entirety before commenting. > > When you talk about FOSS communities and how they do things, that seems > to be referring to communities of developers - operative word here. > That model works well with things like software packages, documentation > projects, translation projects. even artwork projects - where you are > producing a discrete tangible product. But marketing, although it uses > discrete tangible products, and one might even consider a specific > marketing campaign like the one I am working out, as a tangible, > discrete product, the real purpose of marketing, especially marketing > something like Ubuntu is much more intangible. > > We are trying to change the way people think and feel and act - their > buying habits. Every marketing project is or should be focused on that > goal, and that goal alone. Yes, a specific marketing project can have a > more specific tangible goal, like giving away 1000 LiveCDs at a > convention, but that goal does not exist outside of or separate from, > the overall goal of changing peoples minds and behavior. > > Any of these tangible discrete marketing projects that is not done > within the context of the greater marketing goal is not really serious > marketing. And because of this need for integration into the greater > marketing goal, there has to be some kind of "power" structure - a lead > marketer is the term used in a lot of marketing agencies - to ensure > that individual projects are integrated and coordinated with each > other. That is not something that can be done by consensus or anarchy. > Someone - either an individual or a committee - has to take > responsibility for that. > > This individual/committee has to take responsibility for achieving the > marketing needs and goals of the customer - in this case, the Ubuntu > community. Someone has to be held accountable for meeting those needs. > > There is, IMHO, no one, not ever Cody, the team administrator, who is > held accountable for or takes responsibility for whether the marketing > team is meeting the marketing needs of the Ubuntu community. > > That is what I am working on in discussions with some other people on > this team who have expressed interest in team leadership - a proposal > for a group of marketers who will be responsible for and held > accountable for achieving the marketing goal - Fixing Bug #1 - of the > Ubuntu community. And, IMHO, that is what the entire Ubuntu community > is waiting for us to do - why they are so interested in this discussion. > > Given that no one, as far as I can tell, has much of a marketing > success track record, operative word being marketing, selecting this > committee by meritocracy is not possible. An election is an option but > that takes time. and at this point in the history of this team, I am > not sure that the results of such an election would be the best for > meeting the needs of the Ubuntu community. > > My opinion on this, and these are the people, with one exception, I > have tried to get together are the people on this list who have > publicly expressed a desire and willingness to be responsible, and > hopefully - although we have not yet discussed this - be held > accountable for meeting the marketing goal of the Ubuntu community. And > who either have prior MARKETING experience or have exhibited that they > understand what marketing is all about. Sorry, people, but, IMHO, mos
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 7:22 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Hello John, > > > > I am currently the only active administrator (Corey and Jenda are > > both busy with real life as far as I know). > > A question, Cody, for you and everyone else here, and I am NOT being > facetious: > > Is marketing not part of life? No need to post answers, just answer that > for yourselves, and try and understand how others would answer. It all > comes down to a matter of priorities. And yes, I do know that there > are some things in life that are more important than marketing. Not > many, though. I'm sorry but I fail to see the relevance of your question to the current topic (separate mailing list for marketing strategy discussion). Could you please elaborate? > > > > - -- > Peace! > > John > -- Cody A.W. Somerville Software Engineer Red Cow Marketing & Technologies, Inc. Office: 506-458-1290 Toll Free: 1-877-733-2699 Fax: 506-453-9112 Cell: 506-449-5899 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.redcow.ca -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] Marketing Strategy: What IS Marketing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 For those who do not wish to read and/or participate in strategy/structure discussions, feel free to ignore this message. I have heard a lot of discussion here about how things work in a FOSS community and want to offer some insights on that and how it relates to what marketing is. This is a lengthy post, but I would very much appreciate you all reading it in its entirety before commenting. When you talk about FOSS communities and how they do things, that seems to be referring to communities of developers - operative word here. That model works well with things like software packages, documentation projects, translation projects. even artwork projects - where you are producing a discrete tangible product. But marketing, although it uses discrete tangible products, and one might even consider a specific marketing campaign like the one I am working out, as a tangible, discrete product, the real purpose of marketing, especially marketing something like Ubuntu is much more intangible. We are trying to change the way people think and feel and act - their buying habits. Every marketing project is or should be focused on that goal, and that goal alone. Yes, a specific marketing project can have a more specific tangible goal, like giving away 1000 LiveCDs at a convention, but that goal does not exist outside of or separate from, the overall goal of changing peoples minds and behavior. Any of these tangible discrete marketing projects that is not done within the context of the greater marketing goal is not really serious marketing. And because of this need for integration into the greater marketing goal, there has to be some kind of "power" structure - a lead marketer is the term used in a lot of marketing agencies - to ensure that individual projects are integrated and coordinated with each other. That is not something that can be done by consensus or anarchy. Someone - either an individual or a committee - has to take responsibility for that. This individual/committee has to take responsibility for achieving the marketing needs and goals of the customer - in this case, the Ubuntu community. Someone has to be held accountable for meeting those needs. There is, IMHO, no one, not ever Cody, the team administrator, who is held accountable for or takes responsibility for whether the marketing team is meeting the marketing needs of the Ubuntu community. That is what I am working on in discussions with some other people on this team who have expressed interest in team leadership - a proposal for a group of marketers who will be responsible for and held accountable for achieving the marketing goal - Fixing Bug #1 - of the Ubuntu community. And, IMHO, that is what the entire Ubuntu community is waiting for us to do - why they are so interested in this discussion. Given that no one, as far as I can tell, has much of a marketing success track record, operative word being marketing, selecting this committee by meritocracy is not possible. An election is an option but that takes time. and at this point in the history of this team, I am not sure that the results of such an election would be the best for meeting the needs of the Ubuntu community. My opinion on this, and these are the people, with one exception, I have tried to get together are the people on this list who have publicly expressed a desire and willingness to be responsible, and hopefully - although we have not yet discussed this - be held accountable for meeting the marketing goal of the Ubuntu community. And who either have prior MARKETING experience or have exhibited that they understand what marketing is all about. Sorry, people, but, IMHO, most of you have a very limited understanding of marketing and how it works. That's not a criticism but a statement of fact based on my observations of what is being said and done here. I am not familiar with all the in and outs, both technical and political, of how things get done on the Ubuntu community. But I do know marketing, having done it in one form or another since I was a kid with a paper route. And, honestly, knowing marketing should be the ONLY real criteria for leadership on this team. Anything else can be delegated to people with the appropriate technical skills or political savvy. Finally, if the FOSS model that seems to be invoking as something sacrosanct does not work for this team, then let's find one that does work. But, IMO. the REAL FOSS model does work with some modification, perhaps, because of the particular place this team is at at this particular time. Reserve judgment until you actually have something to judge and stop nitpicking because we are perhaps going against what everyone else is supposedly doing. - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUlhVsTN+hz1Fu7URAlBYAJ0Sv3vAGsT0Xa/C1Ou9fEo1EYbUQgCeOKjL nCkpJIVDgEvpJNXaXST8c98= =EiSk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailin
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
I didn't intend to post anything more on this subject but the harsh tone in the mail below means that I will have to explain myself: 2008/6/13 Onno Benschop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'm disappointed in this response that suggests having a discussion > about leadership off-list. This is not a closed process, just because > people aren't vocal does not mean they aren't interested. I see no wrong in what I suggested and I see a lot of wrong in keeping endless theoretical discussions about leadership on this list. It creates a lot of noise that drowns out any other discussions about what I believe most of us want to focus on, marketing Ubuntu. I simply encouraged the people I mentioned to sit down together and come up with a joint suggestion or two which they can present to this list for scrutiny and discussion. I also encouraged them to include more people that show their interest into the discussion. It's not about closing the process, it can be totally open in a separate mailinglist, but I think that is up to the participants. It will then be up to the members of this group to do whatever they want with the proposal. > A team is a group of people with a common understanding of their aims. > We had a meeting to achieve a beginning of those aims. As I've said in > the past, a team in FOSS works by cooperation, common understanding, > common ground and common goals. There is no argument in what you are saying, these are all beautiful words that we all stand behind. I have also read the meeting summary which I think establishes a good foundation for further development of the organisation, well done to everyone who participated in bringing that forward! You seem however, judging from your reaction to my proposal and choice in writing the above, to be of the conviction that a FOSS team always should do everything together as a big group and that's something I completely disagree with. Most progress in FOSS projects is made by dedicated individuals or smaller groups that temporarily fork off to try something new and then return to the team with the result which will be scrutinized and either rejected or accepted, in part or as a whole. The openness of FOSS projects is what makes this possible and it is an advantage we should embrace by encouraging people to run with their ideas. > I understand that there are team-members who do not think we achieved > much, and that we need to vote on leadership now, but by no means are > you representative of everyone in the team - least of all me. I do NOT suggest that we vote for leadership now. Neither do I intend to criticize the hard work made by many people on this list or the result thereof. But I joined this list recently in the hope to discuss marketing and all I can see is long discussions on leadership on a very basic level. My suggestion is to let those who have ideas on organisation and leadership to get together and do it somewhere outside this list and come back with suggestions for our scrutiny. That way they can move their discussion forward much quicker while we can focus on what we are here for. When they return with more worked through ideas and suggestions we can lift the discussion to the next level and talk about the merits and issues of specific ways of organizing. (sorry for repeating myself) > I think it's extremely insulting to this list, to the people who > actively participated in the meeting and active team members who have > spent many hours updating wiki's, compiling meeting notes, proofing and > contributing material. Please explain in what way I have insulted members of this list. It has certainly not been my intention. I have recently made a large contribution of material to this team and therefore consider myself to be part of the group of people you accuse me of having insulted. How many others will see this thread, shake their head and go elsewhere > with their energy? Let me see, first you say that we should NOT take this discussion off the list and now you seem to think we should NOT keep it here either? Not trying to turn your words against you or anything, I'm just honestly a bit confused about where you stand. I do agree with what you say about shaking heads and go elsewhere though. I am shaking my head right now and I'm prepared to go somewhere else with my energy if it continue like this. ;-) I hope this explains my position and that I won't have to write anything more on this subject until some real proposals are presented and up for discussion. Regards, Tord Jansson -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:53:16 -0300 "Cody A.W. Somerville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:33 AM, John Botscharow > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:07:26 -0500 > > John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > If I knew how to set up a new list, I would do it. If someone here > > > will explain where to go to do so and anything I need to know > > > about the mechanics of setting up a list, then I will be more > > > than happy to take care of it. > > > - -- > > > Peace! > > > > > > John > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > > > > > iD8DBQFIUjjOsTN+hz1Fu7URAuWDAJ982V0MiXzn+no4Gvm6wDCD5dHGwQCeMbdL > > > oxIiZgGYOZrr5LQnRTYrDEM= > > > =0W3g > > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > > I went to my Launchpad page and did a search on mailing lists and > > found this page https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp which I want > > to quote: > > > > "Establishing a mailing list > > > > If you are a team administrator, look on your team overview page. > > You will see an action called Configure mailing list: " > > > > I don't have team administrator privileges, nor do I know who does. > > So, at this point, there is nothing I can do to help you, Simon. > > I'm very sorry. > > > > I know you really don't care to read about team strategy/structure > > discussion, so you might want to stop reading here. > > > > Given all this talk about how this team has no leaders, what would > > you call someone with team administration privileges? Chopped > > chicken livers? LOL Having that kind of authority is at least part > > of being a leader. And if a only a team administrator can set up a > > mailing list, I wonder what other kinds of authority they have - > > things they can do that the rest of us can not do. That is power, > > my friends, which is what structure is all about. If we want to > > have a group that is a total anarchy, which is what some people are > > suggesting, then let's give every one team administrator > > privileges. Otherwise, let's stop kidding ourselves: there is a > > power structure on this team and in the Ubuntu community. > > > Hello John, > > I am currently the only active administrator (Corey and Jenda are > both busy with real life as far as I know). A question, Cody, for you and everyone else here, and I am NOT being facetious: Is marketing not part of life? No need to post answers, just answer that for yourselves, and try and understand how others would answer. It all comes down to a matter of priorities. And yes, I do know that there are some things in life that are more important than marketing. Not many, though. - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUkposTN+hz1Fu7URAnsTAKDn+QuUIfwy77mYlRpP2WFxdFcZdQCgrRKp xcOQ9bolb/0lx9M04gLtFwg= =duqB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:38:29 +0200 Pierre Vorhagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: For anyone not interested in strategy/structure discussions, please feel free to ignore this message. I. for one, will not be offended. For those who are, please continue reading. > John Botscharow a écrit : > > I think Simon may have hit on the best solution. See his "Stop it" > > post. I'm sorry to say, but all these comments about "sinister" > > motives for off-list discussions strikes me as a bit paranoid. What > > about any private messages on IRC? Are they off limits too? For all > > the rest of us know, there could be a conspiracy being plotted by > > you and Onno on IRC via pm. Yes, that was an absurd joke, but, > > honestly no more absurd than your reaction to my wanting to discuss > > some ideas amd do some brainstorming - with people who are > > interested in finding a solution to the structure issue. > > > > I am fully behind Onno and Alan. This is not the way an Open Source > project works, and I don't see any reason why this would be more > constructive than doing it openly. You can of course talk on IRC, but > all that is of a certain importance has to, in my opinion and in that > of many people, be copy/pasted to the list. We just work openly, we > work as a team, where everybody suggests his ideas, where we think as > a team, discuss as a team and take decisions as a team. > Even if voting should be one of the last options, if consensus cannot > be found, I am starting to think that we should vote on this question > of either a clear core group or to work as a normal FOSS project. Decisions as a team, yes. But brainstorming can best be done in small groups. And what makes IRC so special as opposed to email? Maybe I have some very good reasons for wanting to use email like: 1. Time differences. Not all discussions can be done in real time, nor should they be required to be. Not everyone has the luxury I have of getting up in the middle of the night - it was 0215 my time when I got back on after sleeping for a few hours - to talk to the night shift here. And I'll stay up till about 0900 and then go back to sleep for a few hours and get up around lunch time to catch up with the day shift here. Neither you, not Alan C, nor Onno are able to do that, from what I've seen. 2. Physical limitations. We're not all young, perfect specimens of humanity like you, Pierre :-) [friendly teasing] with perfect vision. I have vision problems that make any kind of text chat difficult and since this was my idea, I get to pick the media that best suits me, right? As far as how a FOSS community works, see my reply to my reply to Sinon for my thoughts on that. > > Concerning the start of a new list, I am not so fond of it, I think > this discussion on leadership and structure will soon come to an end, > which will free the list to it's actual purpose. Possible, but don't bet the family fortune, such as it may be, on it. LOL Also, should we decide to set up a core-marketing team, we could make this new list, their list, once they are in place. > > > Pierre Vorhagen, > pep. > - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUkWWsTN+hz1Fu7URAhpoAJ9oDvAn8KkNC2mywB3kNIBEw6SZ5wCg5/dH 1HKCmjtd9ewfh3X2ygkQ5p0= =m6PR -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:33 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:07:26 -0500 > John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > If I knew how to set up a new list, I would do it. If someone here > > will explain where to go to do so and anything I need to know about > > the mechanics of setting up a list, then I will be more than happy to > > take care of it. > > - -- > > Peace! > > > > John > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFIUjjOsTN+hz1Fu7URAuWDAJ982V0MiXzn+no4Gvm6wDCD5dHGwQCeMbdL > > oxIiZgGYOZrr5LQnRTYrDEM= > > =0W3g > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > I went to my Launchpad page and did a search on mailing lists and found > this page https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp which I want to quote: > > "Establishing a mailing list > > If you are a team administrator, look on your team overview page. You > will see an action called Configure mailing list: " > > I don't have team administrator privileges, nor do I know who does. So, > at this point, there is nothing I can do to help you, Simon. I'm very > sorry. > > I know you really don't care to read about team strategy/structure > discussion, so you might want to stop reading here. > > Given all this talk about how this team has no leaders, what would you > call someone with team administration privileges? Chopped chicken > livers? LOL Having that kind of authority is at least part of being a > leader. And if a only a team administrator can set up a mailing list, I > wonder what other kinds of authority they have - things they can do > that the rest of us can not do. That is power, my friends, which is > what structure is all about. If we want to have a group that is a total > anarchy, which is what some people are suggesting, then let's give > every one team administrator privileges. Otherwise, let's stop kidding > ourselves: there is a power structure on this team and in the Ubuntu > community. Hello John, I am currently the only active administrator (Corey and Jenda are both busy with real life as far as I know). I've been watching these discussions with much interest over the last few weeks but not saying much to see how things would pan out. As for your request re: the mailing list, please give me some time to think about it. Cheers, > > > - -- > Peace! > > John > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIUj71sTN+hz1Fu7URAixUAJ9josDLYMeUBnTCJP150qp88HHiUgCfdHh6 > pVd3bCU/FcT8H2zbHaRb0fY= > =qNtG > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > -- Cody A.W. Somerville Software Engineer Red Cow Marketing & Technologies, Inc. Office: 506-458-1290 Toll Free: 1-877-733-2699 Fax: 506-453-9112 Cell: 506-449-5899 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.redcow.ca -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
John Botscharow a écrit : > I think Simon may have hit on the best solution. See his "Stop it" post. > I'm sorry to say, but all these comments about "sinister" motives for > off-list discussions strikes me as a bit paranoid. What about any > private messages on IRC? Are they off limits too? For all the rest of > us know, there could be a conspiracy being plotted by you and Onno on > IRC via pm. Yes, that was an absurd joke, but, honestly no more absurd > than your reaction to my wanting to discuss some ideas amd do some > brainstorming - with people who are interested in finding a solution to > the structure issue. > I am fully behind Onno and Alan. This is not the way an Open Source project works, and I don't see any reason why this would be more constructive than doing it openly. You can of course talk on IRC, but all that is of a certain importance has to, in my opinion and in that of many people, be copy/pasted to the list. We just work openly, we work as a team, where everybody suggests his ideas, where we think as a team, discuss as a team and take decisions as a team. Even if voting should be one of the last options, if consensus cannot be found, I am starting to think that we should vote on this question of either a clear core group or to work as a normal FOSS project. Concerning the start of a new list, I am not so fond of it, I think this discussion on leadership and structure will soon come to an end, which will free the list to it's actual purpose. Pierre Vorhagen, pep. -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:07:26 -0500 John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If I knew how to set up a new list, I would do it. If someone here > will explain where to go to do so and anything I need to know about > the mechanics of setting up a list, then I will be more than happy to > take care of it. > - -- > Peace! > > John > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIUjjOsTN+hz1Fu7URAuWDAJ982V0MiXzn+no4Gvm6wDCD5dHGwQCeMbdL > oxIiZgGYOZrr5LQnRTYrDEM= > =0W3g > -END PGP SIGNATURE- I went to my Launchpad page and did a search on mailing lists and found this page https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp which I want to quote: "Establishing a mailing list If you are a team administrator, look on your team overview page. You will see an action called Configure mailing list: " I don't have team administrator privileges, nor do I know who does. So, at this point, there is nothing I can do to help you, Simon. I'm very sorry. I know you really don't care to read about team strategy/structure discussion, so you might want to stop reading here. Given all this talk about how this team has no leaders, what would you call someone with team administration privileges? Chopped chicken livers? LOL Having that kind of authority is at least part of being a leader. And if a only a team administrator can set up a mailing list, I wonder what other kinds of authority they have - things they can do that the rest of us can not do. That is power, my friends, which is what structure is all about. If we want to have a group that is a total anarchy, which is what some people are suggesting, then let's give every one team administrator privileges. Otherwise, let's stop kidding ourselves: there is a power structure on this team and in the Ubuntu community. - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUj71sTN+hz1Fu7URAixUAJ9josDLYMeUBnTCJP150qp88HHiUgCfdHh6 pVd3bCU/FcT8H2zbHaRb0fY= =qNtG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:41:31 +0200 Simon Schneebeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Indeed, I don't get the point of Alan's message. Having participated > in the IRC meeting, I know the new mission statement and team > objectifs. > > Simon > > --- > Simon Schneebeli > 078 619 31 18 > --- > > > > John Botscharow a écrit : > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:21:22 +0100 > > alan c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> Simon Schneebeli wrote: > >> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> It's about two weeks that I'm on this mailinglist. I don't want to > >>> and can't judge about the debate that is going on. For me, it's > >>> just clear that I'll turn away if things do not change to more > >>> soon. > >> Have you seen this from the message here recently? > >> > >> > >> We came up with the following Mission Statement, and > >> accompanying Team Objectives: > >> > >> Mission Statement > >> > >> The Marketing Team strives to create the building blocks > >> needed by the Ubuntu Community to spread Ubuntu throughout the > >> world. > >> > >> > >> Team Objectives > >> > >> * The Ubuntu Marketing Team will act as a central marketing > >> resource for the Ubuntu Community. > >> * Provide resources to assist and encourage LoCos in marketing > >> their activities to the wider community. > >> * Gather the hard work that LoCo teams are already doing. > >> > >> > > > > So, what's your point? What does this have to do with Simon not > > wanting to put up with the strategy discussions and asking for a > > separate list for those, so he can choose not to subscribe to it? > > > > - -- > > Peace! > > > > John > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iD8DBQFIUjH9sTN+hz1Fu7URAk/vAKDIaSN8F8qqzMi82Tnx7ZhT0pakmQCghoaB > > VGnZg7bChGztGJ2gz8stBLw= > > =mDNU > > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > If I knew how to set up a new list, I would do it. If someone here will explain where to go to do so and anything I need to know about the mechanics of setting up a list, then I will be more than happy to take care of it. - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUjjOsTN+hz1Fu7URAuWDAJ982V0MiXzn+no4Gvm6wDCD5dHGwQCeMbdL oxIiZgGYOZrr5LQnRTYrDEM= =0W3g -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
Indeed, I don't get the point of Alan's message. Having participated in the IRC meeting, I know the new mission statement and team objectifs. Simon --- Simon Schneebeli 078 619 31 18 --- John Botscharow a écrit : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:21:22 +0100 > alan c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Simon Schneebeli wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> It's about two weeks that I'm on this mailinglist. I don't want to >>> and can't judge about the debate that is going on. For me, it's >>> just clear that I'll turn away if things do not change to more soon. >>> >> Have you seen this from the message here recently? >> >> >> We came up with the following Mission Statement, and >> accompanying Team Objectives: >> >> Mission Statement >> >> The Marketing Team strives to create the building blocks needed >> by the Ubuntu Community to spread Ubuntu throughout the world. >> >> >> Team Objectives >> >> * The Ubuntu Marketing Team will act as a central marketing >> resource for the Ubuntu Community. >> * Provide resources to assist and encourage LoCos in marketing >> their activities to the wider community. >> * Gather the hard work that LoCo teams are already doing. >> >> > > So, what's your point? What does this have to do with Simon not wanting > to put up with the strategy discussions and asking for a separate list > for those, so he can choose not to subscribe to it? > > - -- > Peace! > > John > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIUjH9sTN+hz1Fu7URAk/vAKDIaSN8F8qqzMi82Tnx7ZhT0pakmQCghoaB > VGnZg7bChGztGJ2gz8stBLw= > =mDNU > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:21:22 +0100 alan c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Simon Schneebeli wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > It's about two weeks that I'm on this mailinglist. I don't want to > > and can't judge about the debate that is going on. For me, it's > > just clear that I'll turn away if things do not change to more soon. > > Have you seen this from the message here recently? > > > We came up with the following Mission Statement, and > accompanying Team Objectives: > > Mission Statement > > The Marketing Team strives to create the building blocks needed > by the Ubuntu Community to spread Ubuntu throughout the world. > > > Team Objectives > > * The Ubuntu Marketing Team will act as a central marketing > resource for the Ubuntu Community. > * Provide resources to assist and encourage LoCos in marketing > their activities to the wider community. > * Gather the hard work that LoCo teams are already doing. > So, what's your point? What does this have to do with Simon not wanting to put up with the strategy discussions and asking for a separate list for those, so he can choose not to subscribe to it? - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUjH9sTN+hz1Fu7URAk/vAKDIaSN8F8qqzMi82Tnx7ZhT0pakmQCghoaB VGnZg7bChGztGJ2gz8stBLw= =mDNU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:18:17 +0100 alan c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Onno Benschop wrote: > > On 13/06/08 15:17, John Botscharow wrote: > >> And is there some rule that says that a few of us cannot get > >> together off the list and jointly prepare something concrete, > >> well-thought out. and positive to bring to the list when it is > >> ready rather than indulging in all the negativism that has > >> dominated this thread? > > > It presumes that the team cannot have constructive input to your > > deliberations. > > I support what you are saying Onno. > > Off list discussions undermine the communal list. I trust that anyone > who does not have confidence in the list process will not expect to > be taken seriously. I think Simon may have hit on the best solution. See his "Stop it" post. I'm sorry to say, but all these comments about "sinister" motives for off-list discussions strikes me as a bit paranoid. What about any private messages on IRC? Are they off limits too? For all the rest of us know, there could be a conspiracy being plotted by you and Onno on IRC via pm. Yes, that was an absurd joke, but, honestly no more absurd than your reaction to my wanting to discuss some ideas amd do some brainstorming - with people who are interested in finding a solution to the structure issue. - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUjC5sTN+hz1Fu7URAm+XAJ9UjBwOsefEp/jtP2HudsdG19BgAgCg3JiZ RImgX4ECcFQQvdVC/tRdIxA= =/+nd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
Simon Schneebeli wrote: > Hi all, > > It's about two weeks that I'm on this mailinglist. I don't want to and > can't judge about the debate that is going on. For me, it's just clear > that I'll turn away if things do not change to more soon. Have you seen this from the message here recently? We came up with the following Mission Statement, and accompanying Team Objectives: Mission Statement The Marketing Team strives to create the building blocks needed by the Ubuntu Community to spread Ubuntu throughout the world. Team Objectives * The Ubuntu Marketing Team will act as a central marketing resource for the Ubuntu Community. * Provide resources to assist and encourage LoCos in marketing their activities to the wider community. * Gather the hard work that LoCo teams are already doing. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:57:40 +0200 Simon Schneebeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > It's about two weeks that I'm on this mailinglist. I don't want to > and can't judge about the debate that is going on. For me, it's just > clear that I'll turn away if things do not change to more soon. > > I joined this list because I wanted to help with marketing. I don't > mind if there is no leadership (although leaders can do a marveouls > job of coordinating things), nor if there is no clear > goal/mission/strategy. I think there are plenty of things we can do > even without that. > > My proposition would be to create a "marketing strategy" mailinglist, > where all the debate about mission, structure, leadership can be > discussed and leave the present mailinglist for those who would like > to focus on the operational part of ubuntu marketing. > > Discussion about strategy is indeed important and has to take place. > It's just, for now I have the impression that the whole debate > prevents those who want to DO something from getting active. > > So please, tell what you think about the idea of creating a separate > mailinglist for strategy questions and if there is enough agreement, > create such a list as soon as possible so that there is a place where > we can focus on action. > > Simon > > PS: Otherwise it would of course be possible to do it the other way > round: create a mailinglist for "marketing-operation". > Simon. This is a very viable solution. I think you are right. The two discussions should be separated to avoid more people feeling like you do. And this way we can avoid, hopefully, losing people we can ill afford to lose. I think a new list for those who want to discuss strategy and structure is best. There are too many threads and subscribers to this list to ask them to move. The people who want to be part of the strategy discussions is a much smaller number and it would be more efficient if they were the ones who had to subscribe to the new list. - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUi2dsTN+hz1Fu7URArKoAJsHwnRJQVxTzLZ1uN79Mld3lr8lwwCdGZTG qdpaJcAs4LZ+DiADgWjLM+w= =H13Y -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
Onno Benschop wrote: > On 13/06/08 15:17, John Botscharow wrote: >> And is there some rule that says that a few of us cannot get together >> off the list and jointly prepare something concrete, well-thought out. >> and positive to bring to the list when it is ready rather than >> indulging in all the negativism that has dominated this thread? > It presumes that the team cannot have constructive input to your > deliberations. I support what you are saying Onno. Off list discussions undermine the communal list. I trust that anyone who does not have confidence in the list process will not expect to be taken seriously. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] Stop it - start now
Hi all, It's about two weeks that I'm on this mailinglist. I don't want to and can't judge about the debate that is going on. For me, it's just clear that I'll turn away if things do not change to more soon. I joined this list because I wanted to help with marketing. I don't mind if there is no leadership (although leaders can do a marveouls job of coordinating things), nor if there is no clear goal/mission/strategy. I think there are plenty of things we can do even without that. My proposition would be to create a "marketing strategy" mailinglist, where all the debate about mission, structure, leadership can be discussed and leave the present mailinglist for those who would like to focus on the operational part of ubuntu marketing. Discussion about strategy is indeed important and has to take place. It's just, for now I have the impression that the whole debate prevents those who want to DO something from getting active. So please, tell what you think about the idea of creating a separate mailinglist for strategy questions and if there is enough agreement, create such a list as soon as possible so that there is a place where we can focus on action. Simon PS: Otherwise it would of course be possible to do it the other way round: create a mailinglist for "marketing-operation". -- --- Simon Schneebeli 078 619 31 18 --- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:30:26 +0800 Onno Benschop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 13/06/08 15:17, John Botscharow wrote: > > And is there some rule that says that a few of us cannot get > > together off the list and jointly prepare something concrete, > > well-thought out. and positive to bring to the list when it is > > ready rather than indulging in all the negativism that has > > dominated this thread? > It presumes that the team cannot have constructive input to your > deliberations. > That's YOUR interpretation of it, not mine. I see it more like preparing a committee report for consideration by the whole group. You can put whatever spin you want on it. It really does not matter to me one way or the other. Hopefully, in the long run, people will judge for themselves what we are doing by the results, not by what someone else thinks we are doing or not doing. else's - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUiRQsTN+hz1Fu7URAtEAAKDDh4YuUjb9BKNJi2Bq2M2m8W3ADgCgsbAo ALFCfQ0sfe3zCpcbK8mIC5I= =FI2o -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
On 13/06/08 15:17, John Botscharow wrote: > And is there some rule that says that a few of us cannot get together > off the list and jointly prepare something concrete, well-thought out. > and positive to bring to the list when it is ready rather than > indulging in all the negativism that has dominated this thread? It presumes that the team cannot have constructive input to your deliberations. -- Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S31°54'06" - E115°50'39" (Yokine, WA) -- ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno.. |>>?..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] wiki updates
I just completed a little reorganisation of the Agenda pages structure, that is, the place the pages live in the wiki - it involved several renames and edits. In case I made any horrible mistakes, here's a record of what I did to the wiki: * added meeting minutes for previous meeting * moved agenda within MarketingTeam/Meetings/Agendas, just like IRC and Minutes * added agenda page creator * reordered content on IRC and Minutes master pages so they look the same * added the skeleton agenda for next meeting * created an agenda template * updated agenda from previous meeting to include summary * updated mission statement and objectives to reflect meeting resolutions * updated meeting times in several places Some previous edits: * added people present at meeting * added mailing list search links * added swedish marketing materials If you find any errors, feel free to either poke me in the eye via email, or -preferably- click the [Edit] link on the top of the offending page - be sure to include a few words on what you did and click [Save] :-) I also volunteered to also chair the next meeting by adding myself to the meeting chair in the agenda. -- Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S31°54'06" - E115°50'39" (Yokine, WA) -- ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno.. |>>?..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Clear new leadership
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:02:05 +0800 Onno Benschop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > How many others will see this thread, shake their head and go > elsewhere with their energy? > > And is there some rule that says that a few of us cannot get together off the list and jointly prepare something concrete, well-thought out. and positive to bring to the list when it is ready rather than indulging in all the negativism that has dominated this thread? - -- Peace! John -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIUh7+sTN+hz1Fu7URAvd7AKDmDNOd/JCFiDrzOQ9yfwiNYs6rdgCfb9KM e+sami8Daz2JQDbGrkgUi6c= =CGva -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
