Re: [UC] Explaining Sub prime lending : Kudos to my colleagues, competition, local Lenders and PENN

[Frank]

You might have some interest in the New York Times Link Generator.  
<http://nytimes.blogspace.com/genlink> Using the bookmarklet on that  
page, you can create a link to a current article that will never go  
out of date. It links to an always-free archived version of any  
current non-TimesSelect article. Of course, you can't use it on  
something that's already disappeared.


Frank


On May 10, 2007, at 11:18 AM, Ross Bender wrote:




On 5/9/07, Elizabeth F Campion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Behaviors improve as people acquire things (like homes) that they  
fear to lose.

Home ownership is a good thing, even in 'flat' markets.
Being house proud, having privacy and control, being able to  
personalize one's space, roots and familiarity do make for happier,  
healthier neighbors.


It always burns my britches when my wealthy realtor friends  
blatantly disrepect renters and then send them emails advertizing  
"cheap" houses for sale. The master illusion in this society is  
that buying things will make you happier, healthier and better- 
behaved.


I was happy to see this article last month in the (free) online NY  
Times:


ECONOMIX; A Word of Advice During a Housing Slump: Rent


April 11, 2007, Wednesday
By DAVID LEONHARDT (NYT); Business/Financial Desk
Late Edition - Final, Section A, Page 1, Column 2, 1176 words

DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - Analysis of housing costs reveals that people  
who bought over last two years have paid more for their housing  
than renters; housing prices may not yet have fallen far enough for  
buying to look better than renting, except for people who plan to  
stay in a home for many years; realtors insist that now is time to  
buy, but skeptics point to extended slump in housing prices in  
1990s, following last boom, and argue that buying has never been  
quite as beneficial as realtors and others who make money off home  
purchases would have you believes


To read this archive article, upgrade to TimesSelect or purchase as  
a single article.
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html? 
res=F20913FF395B0C728DDDAD0894DF404482


Of course, if you want to read the article now, you have to buy it.
--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] Vote for Nutter - another arrest story

[Frank]

Classic.

On May 10, 2007, at 01:00 PM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:

Just to be clear..I don’t see the police as my enemy, some of my  
best friends are police officers.

Re: [UC] Civility on and off the web

[Frank]

On May 10, 2007, at 11:43 PM, Anthony West wrote:

That's why the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when you  
read a troll's unmoderated post. You are reading danger and your  
body is telling you so.


MY neck? Not usually.

I think part of the problem is that some people take it upon  
themselves to speak for others by saying things like "the hairs on  
the back of your neck" when they really mean "the hairs on the back  
of my neck," or "You are reading danger" instead of "I am reading  
danger."


I know it's a common way people express themselves these days but I  
believe there's a reason for it. I don't think people want to take  
ownership of their thoughts and feelings and want to believe everyone  
else feels the same way.


Call me old-fashioned but I believe the words people use are important.

I'm also offended by being told what behavior is "healthier" or more  
"natural." As I see it, the ways humans interact and communicate have  
always evolved and are now doing so pretty rapidly. Some people adapt  
well to those changes, others don't. I've heard it said that the  
ability to express anonymously online the parts of a person's  
personality that would otherwise be stifled by social conventions is  
healthy and liberating for some people. Obviously, it's just license  
to be an asshole for some others.


For the record, I think civility barely exists anywhere anymore,  
online or face-to-face. Social isolation through the internet, cell  
phones and iPods could be part of the cause. Those things could also  
be seen as refuge from the constant assault of noise and rudeness I  
feel being on the street these days. They could be both or neither of  
those things for different people.


Frank

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Re: [UC] Newspaper Endorsements ... "Pay-To Say"

[Frank]

Funny, I've noticed exactly the opposite to be true. Which newspapers  
are you referring to?


Frank


On May 11, 2007, at 02:43 PM, Joshua Karstendick wrote:


The editorial page is separate from news reporting. Newspapers can and
do both endorse candidates and provide high quality, unbiased news.

There is also a wall of separation between advertisers and the  
newsroom.


On 5/11/07, S. Sharrieff Ali <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




Newspapers should not support candidates, they should report

the news and remain unbiased.



So if the newspapers are advertising based, then how much do

they charge for an endorsement?



S



--
Joshua Karstendick

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Re: [UC] My Nutter Lawn Sign Was Taken

[Frank]

Perhaps SEPTA removed them.

Frank

On May 12, 2007, at 12:27 PM, John Ellingsworth wrote:

Well, it didn't happen to me, but I noticed this morning as I biked  
past the portal @ 40th & Baltimore - where there were once at least  
50 Nutter signs along the grass there  - there are now none.


Regards,

John Ellingsworth

KAREN ALLEN wrote:
I came outside my house (across from Abbraccio on Warrington  
Avenue) this morning (Saturday) to find that my Nutter lawn sign  
was taken. I'm more than a little suspicious because only the  
vinyl message portion was taken;  the metal supports were still in  
the ground.  So obviously it wasn't taken because the taker wanted  
to use it him/herself.  Has this happened to anyone else?

Hopefully this is just an isolated incident.
Karen Allen

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Re: [UC] Stop-N-Frisk, Racial Profiling and Law Enforcement

[Frank]

Surveillance cameras are not mentioned in that article at all! They  
use the word "surveillance" to refer to the level of Stop 'n' Frisk  
that is used.


Like so:

"The empirical evidence from New York City is that stop-and-frisk  
as a policy for getting guns off the street helped. I think that's  
fair to say. The fact is that more surveillance in society tends to  
be effective," said University of Chicago law professor Bernard  
Harcourt.


"The only question is, where do you want to set the level of  
surveillance? It's a cost-benefit analysis," he said. Cities need  
to weigh the potential benefits against "liberty interests and the  
inevitable racial disparities and increased complaints of police  
misconduct" that have followed such programs, he said.


As an answer to your statement, I think being constantly videotaped  
IS a violation of my rights. (And yes, I know it's already happening.)


More interesting is the list of "most read" and "most emailed"  
articles in the right sidebar. That shows what people REALLY care  
about and it's sure not election issues.


Frank

On May 12, 2007, at 05:32 PM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:

What you should also notice in the article is the data regarding  
surveillance


cameras, a Fattah proposal. The reason being, if you can see who is  
doing


what and breaking the law, you don’t need to random search or risk  
violating


the rights of innocent people.



S

-Original Message-
From: Glenn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 2:40 PM
To: S. Sharrieff Ali; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Stop-N-Frisk, Racial Profiling and Law Enforcement



Thanks S.



I saw the paper.  I hope folks read this.



Glenn

- Original Message -

From: S. Sharrieff Ali

To: UnivCity@list.purple.com

Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 2:06 PM

Subject: RE: [UC] Stop-N-Frisk, Racial Profiling and Law Enforcement



http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20070512_Stop-and- 
frisk_controversy__What_price_for_a_safer_city_.html








No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date:  
5/11/2007 7:34 PM

Re: [UC] The future of our City is in Jeopardy

[Frank]

Amen.

Frank

On May 14, 2007, at 11:30 AM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:

I repeat, Nothing Is Ever Going To Change as long as self  
destructive attitudes prevail, however or wherever they originated  
from.  And until those ideas are challenged, not coddled or  
"understood", they will continue to prevail.


Karen



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Re: [UC] Thanks for the emails, but really, all is well!

[Frank]

No, he's using it correctly. It means "not based on logic" but not  
necessarily "illogical." I think it's more about intention. For  
instance, if I called someone insane just to be mean and they  
happened to *be* insane in some measurable way, my comment is no less  
ad hominem.


I love the definitions below. It's funny they used Fenton for their  
example.


ad hominem |ˈad ˈhämənəm| |ˌˈød ˌhɑmənəm| |ad ˌhɒmɪnɛm|
adverb & adjective
1 (of an argument or reaction) arising from or appealing to the  
emotions and not reason or logic.
• attacking an opponent’s motives or character rather than the  
policy or position they maintain : vicious ad hominem attacks.
2 relating to or associated with a particular person : [as adv. ] the  
office was created ad hominem for Fenton. | [as adj. ] an ad hominem  
response.

ORIGIN late 16th cent.: Latin, literally ‘to the person.’

Frank

On May 16, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Anthony West wrote:

I don't believe you are using the term "ad hominem" rightly. It is  
not merely a synonym for "insulting". "Ad hominem" is a flaw in a  
*logical argument*, not a flaw in courtesy.




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[UC] John Fenton/UCD in election shock!

[Frank]

From the DN: VOTE DAY: ROBBERY, FAKERY, ETC.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/ 
20070516_Clout___VOTE_DAY__ROBBERY__FAKERY__ETC_.html


Community service, Philly-style

Luke Walker is a grad student at Penn recently directed to perform 20  
hours of community service for a minor infraction.


He dutifully appeared at the University City District on Friday.  
After orientation, he was handed a broom to sweep Powelton Avenue.  
After an hour and a half, things got interesting.


"The supervisor, John something, told us, 'We've got something else  
for you,' " Walker recalled. "They put us on a truck and drove north  
to a garage. It wasn't even in University City."


At the garage, the community-service volunteers were directed to load  
a truck with barbecue grills, coolers and a couple of Moon Bounce  
inflatable kiddie amusements.


"The next day, they drove us out to Malcom X Park [51st and Osage]  
and had us unload, inflate the Moon Bounces and set everything up,"  
Walker said.


Included in the setup were "Knox for Mayor" posters, which made  
Walker think this was unusual community service indeed.


Several hundred people attended the Knox rally. When it was over, "we  
put it back on the truck and went on our merry way," Walker said.


"It was bizarre," he said. "All of a sudden I found myself working  
for the Tom Knox campaign and wondering, 'How did I get here?' "


The director of UCD's cleanup effort is John Fenton, who Walker heard  
was close to City Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell. Blackwell supported  
Knox.


Fenton was off yesterday and did not answer an e-mail. Blackwell did  
not return our phone call.

Re: [UC] Plot of Upcoming 'Die Hard' Sequel Spoiled by GOP Debate

[Frank]

Great! I'm all for swarthy characters!

Frank

On May 16, 2007, at 12:17 PM, Ross Bender wrote:

For those of you whose FOX NOISE reception was spoiled by  
spaceships last night, as was mine, there are now YOUTUBE clips  
available at www.wonkette.com, which liveblogged the whole sordid  
event. One commentator's conclusion:


I think this Video makes it pretty clear that the Republican  
candidate who will eventually win the GOP nomination will be the  
first to come out openly advocating torturing, then lynching any  
Arab who looks at a white woman in a disrespectful manner.


10:26 Tancredo with the Jack Bauer reference! Bring on the torture!  
And the corporate synergy! You're watching Fox!
10:24 Governor, in the event of a major terrorist attack, how would  
you help the economy? Ans: I WOULD HUNT THEM DOWN AND KILL THEM  
SOO HARD.
10:23 Wait, the economy? Malls are ABOUT TO BE BLOWN UP BY SWARTHY  
CHARACTER ACTORS AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMY?
10:22 Poor John McCain. He is the only one who isn't allowed to get  
all bloodlusty because he was tortured. So you have to be nice to him.
10:21 This is seriously everyone's time to shine right now. Would  
Brownback go to the UN? NO, HE WOULD NOT, YOU STUPID HOMO.
10:20 TOMMY THOMPSON, ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO SAVE THE MALL OF  
AMERICA? THOMPSON : REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN COLIN POWELL REAGAN. ALSO,  
BOMBS.
10:19 ROMNEY: LET A THOUSAND GUANTANAMOS BLOOM, I WANT TO SEND  
EVERYONE THERE FOREVER. WE WILL NOT-QUITE-TORTURE THEM ALL UNTIL WE  
ARE FREE.

10:17 The audience just applauded waterboarding.
10:16 MAYOR GIULIANI: MCCAIN IS A PUSSY, HOW MUCH WOULD YOU TORTURE  
THEM?
10:15 Shopping malls? Suicide bombers? SENATOR MCCAIN, HOW MUCH  
WOULD YOU TORTURE THEM? HOW MUCH??? McCain would personally not  
torture them so hard.

10:14 OMG OMG THEY HAVE TO RESPOND TO A 24 EPISODE WTF FOX.
10:12 Next is the LIGHTNING ROUND, AWESOME. They will have to solve  
crises in REAL TIME. We hope they get to role play with each other,  
like an improv exercise or something. Will they get to make pretend  
speeches announcing war with Syria and North Korea and Russia and  
China and Belgium?


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] test

[Frank]

Failed.

On May 16, 2007, at 10:19 PM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:

Re: [UC] Converting wma to mp3

[Frank]

iTunes doesn't play WMA flles, just as Windows Media Player won't  
play AAC files, at least on the Mac. VLC will play both, though, and  
convert to MP3.


Frank


On May 19, 2007, at 08:14 AM, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote:


B Andersen wrote:
Anyone have a suggestion for a freeware program that will convert  
wma to

mp3?




itunes



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.






















































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Re: [UC] Deer in Woodland Cemetary

[Frank]

I heard a report on KYW about the "exploding deer population." That  
could also be a hazard.


Frank

On May 21, 2007, at 08:05 AM, Philip Forrest wrote:


"Very unafraid, used to  joggers, bikers, walkers, and cars."
This is a problem, when it comes to deer.  Deer are large, WILD  
animals.  Yes,

it's sad to see them be killed, but they are a potential hazard to the
aforementioned joggers, bikers, walkers and cars.  For the most  
part, they

are harmless, but they can injure people and property.
If there is to be some large, concerted effort to "humanely" remove  
the deer
from the cemetery and relocate them, please don't dip into my tax  
dollars to
do so.  Operations like that can reach into the hundreds of  
thousands of
dollars.  Call me a scrooge, but there are plenty of deer for  
everyone to
have some in PA, they just aren't in the cities and really  
shouldn't be.


PhilFo



On Monday 21 May 2007 07:37, J. Matthew Wolfe wrote:

You stated in your email:


Can anyone offer some help with the situation described below?   
Please

contact Opa Hamilton at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Best,
R. Mimi Iijima

I cannot help myself, as I am not a hunter, but I do have several  
friends

who are and would be happy to supplement the game wardens to rid our
neighborhood of this plague of deer.  I will let them know to  
contact the

Game Commission.

Thanks for alerting me to this problem.

--

  There are deer in the cemetery on Woodland by VA Hosp., maybe  
you have
been and seen them.  I go often to see them.  They stand on  hind  
legs and
nibble lower leaves of the trees, it is beautiful.   They are  
there to see
at dusk and early in the mornings.  There  are several fawns  
now.  They

all

come and go via paths along the  river.  They have other hangouts  
too.

Very

unafraid, used to  joggers, bikers, walkers, and cars.

 Two policeman were there  also watching them tonight and told me  
that

the

deer will be killed by  game wardens on May 23rd (this is May  
20th!!!)
They were  concerned and wondered why no one is trying to stop  
them.  I

don't  think anyone knows.

 I was hot online tonight and emailed a  lot of animal activist  
groups,

hopefully at least, someone that knows  the ropes can check it out
tomorrow  I don't think the police  would be pulling my leg  
about
something like that.  They seemed  really concerned and  
appreciative of

having deer here in the  city.

 If you know any avenues, or interested  people...  Anything I  
hear I can
forward.  Two of the groups  responded and emailed their  
people...  cc'd

it

to me.

 It  would make me sick to know they were dead.  I know there are  
too
many deer in PA.  But NOT TOO MANY IN THE CITYThey could  
thin the

herd?  Leave the fawns?

  Sorry for bad news.   opa


_
PC Magazine's 2007 editors' choice for best Web mail-award-winning  
Windows

Live Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en- 
us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migrati

o n_HM_mini_pcmag_0507


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Re: [UC] John Fenton Got Suspended!

[Frank]

"The next day, they drove us out to Malcom X Park [51st and Osage]  
and had us unload, inflate the Moon Bounces and set everything up,"  
Walker said.


Included in the setup were "Knox for Mayor" posters, which made  
Walker think this was unusual community service indeed.


Doesn't sound vague to me. They "set EVERYTHING up." "Included in the  
set up were 'Knox for Mayor' posters." That's pretty clear.


Frank

On May 22, 2007, at 09:58 AM, Kirk Wattles wrote:

The article is vague about who actually put up the "Knox for Mayor"  
posters, but they were mentioned to underscore that this was a  
political rally, and not just an ad hoc community festival.  The  
"community service" guy helped to set up the Moon Bounce and other  
equipment.





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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

Best part:

"This was not a Knox rally. This was a community rally. I asked  
nobody to do anything for a Knox rally. I asked them to do it for a  
community fair in the park where we had a church rally," said Blackwell.


and then:

"I'm telling the head of the UCD Board and anybody concerned, if you  
have a problem with my politics, come to me. I make my decisions  
about who I endorse," said Blackwell.


Wow. Contradictory as well as arrogant.

Community service workers shouldn't be working for a church either,  
as far as I'm concerned.


Frank

On May 22, 2007, at 11:57 PM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:




John Fenton is now Tom Fenton and Lewis Wendell we all know is

now Wendell Lewis according to Al.



The story was broadcast on Action News Channel 6 tonight at 11PM.



The Community Service Program in the University City District has  
been suspended,


and one of the top administrators placed on administrative leave  
pending an internal


investigation.



A spokesman for the Knox campaign says they had no knowledge that  
students doing


community service were allegedly used to set up for the appearance.

The spokesman added they would have been totally against it if they  
had known.






http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=politics&id=5328900





S

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

I realize the the Penn Police are a real police department, but do  
they have the authority to find someone guilty and sentence them,  
even to community service?? It seems to me that they would be handed  
over to the Philadelphia Police/court system for that. At least  
that's what happened when I was arrested by them many years ago.


Frank


On May 23, 2007, at 03:38 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:

This wording makes clear what I suspected:  the “community service”  
was not court-mandated, but part of some internal student related  
process at Penn.




This takes a lot of the issues out—the only remaining one would be  
participation by a 501c3 in partisan political work—and that can be  
debated—as Janney is doing!




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Bender

Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:00 PM
To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Cc: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



UC Review's version is much, much funnier:

"Reporting to the University City District, where Penn sends  
students to atone for minor misdeeds, Walker and his fellow  
cleaning crewmates began sweeping Powelton Avenue."

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

That could well be true. Still, I find it hard to believe that  
today's students, especially at Penn, would put up with *any* kind of  
discipline that didn't involve a court. If a student at Roger  
Williams won't watch "An Inconvenient Truth" in class, what Penn  
student is going to sweep the street?


I know the guy who's in charge of sorority/fraternity relations. This  
doesn't involve him but he probably knows. I'll ask him.


Frank

On May 23, 2007, at 06:04 PM, Anthony West wrote:

Probably Penn, like most schools, has some internal disciplinary  
system for students who pass out in the President's flowerbed or  
infiltrate a live cow into the library.


-- Tony West
- Original Message -
From: Frank
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

I realize the the Penn Police are a real police department, but do  
they have the authority to find someone guilty and sentence them,  
even to community service?? It seems to me that they would be  
handed over to the Philadelphia Police/court system for that. At  
least that's what happened when I was arrested by them many years ago.


Frank


On May 23, 2007, at 03:38 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:

This wording makes clear what I suspected:  the “community  
service” was not court-mandated, but part of some internal student  
related process at Penn.



This takes a lot of the issues out—the only remaining one would be  
participation by a 501c3 in partisan political work—and that can  
be debated—as Janney is doing!



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Bender

Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:00 PM
To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Cc: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


UC Review's version is much, much funnier:

"Reporting to the University City District, where Penn sends  
students to atone for minor misdeeds, Walker and his fellow  
cleaning crewmates began sweeping Powelton Avenue."

Re: [UC] UC Review Graffiti Contest

[Frank]

I'd rather see graffiti than 90% of the murals in the city. At least  
there's no sappy "message" involved.


Frank


On May 24, 2007, at 06:57 PM, Turner,Kathleen wrote:


To change the subject for awhile . . .

Quite an idea the UC Review had with their "Graffiti Watch" feature  
-- best tag of the week gets a photo on the front page.


I can see this being a BIG disincentive to the neighborhood  
graffiti artists.


Cornbread rides again?


Kathleen

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

This is another example of an area with specific boundaries that you  
have decided don't exist because you don't want them to exist. You've  
even decided that your opinion is that of "most" people in the  
neighborhood and you imply that those who disagree are insane. The  
arrogance I see in this post is incredible to me.


Is your dislike for Ray so strong that you have to resort to this?  
Must you respond to his every sentence with the opposite opinion? Why  
respond at all?


Which brings me to your earlier question about how some online  
communities deal with trolls. We have ignored them. It works. So does  
creating a moderated environment but, given the nature of this list,  
I don't think it is appropriate here. I'm sure we would have some  
disagreements about what constitutes a troll.


As far as the John Fenton/UCD controversy is concerned, dismissing it  
by saying that's the way Philly politics works just doesn't wash with  
me. People make conscious decisions about whether or not to  
participate in this kind of logrolling. In my opinion, people should  
just fess up and take their lumps. If they think it's for the greater  
good, then they can make their case and see what happens. And  
remember, this might not be an isolated incident, just the only one  
we've heard about.


Frank

On May 24, 2007, at 10:33 PM, Anthony West wrote:

As a park activist, I'd have to say this argument is thin. If you  
serve a community of residents within certain boundaries, but one  
of their dedicated facilities lies one block beyond those  
boundaries, a wise and responsible community organization will seek  
to extend them some coverage. It's meaningless that some  
neighborhood service lies one block outside some boundary. Suppose  
the West Philadelphia Y requested some assistance from UCD -- would  
that bother you? I'm asking for the opinion of every neighbor on  
this list as well as yours.


I personally know readers of UC-list who are also Friends of  
Malcolm X Park. How many readers have been quietly thinking Greg  
Cojulun is doing a lousy job, over at  Malcolm X Park? By contrast,  
how many readers have noticed how much better Malcolm X Park has  
been looking, compared to 1997? If you belong to the latter group  
(aka the not-insane group)


Facilitating Malcolm X Park activities in general is one of the  
best things either UCD or any of its haughty rivals could do. I'm  
totally for that. It makes sense to most people who are comfortable  
living in this neighborhood. If any of you are uncomfortable with  
Malcolm X Park, call me and talk to me. Yes,  it is very much part  
of our neighborhood and a very safe and well-maintained space, I  
might add.


-- Tony West


Ray wrote:

ucd states on their website precisely where their
boundaries are, and that's where everyone funding ucd
expects them to be servicing. and that's where ucd claims all its  
credit, it's where ucd draws its statistics to write up its report  
cards, etc.


this incident involved taking workers away from servicing an area  
within the ucd boundaries to an area outside the ucd boundaries.  
workers that included ucd staff as well as 2 penn students.




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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

If going above and beyond means putting up campaign posters at a  
church fair, I'm going to complain every time.


Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 01:57 AM, Bill Sanderson wrote:

I didn't think Tony needed others to chime in, even though he  
requested it,
but I guess he does.  I'm very happy to see any agency go the extra  
mile, or
step, or whatever, to do something that is within their general  
mandate, but

perhaps isn't strictly allowed by the bureaucratic rules.

So much of the time the reverse is true--that the organizations  
don't even
do what they are supposed to do--that I'm not going to slap  
somebody for

going above and beyond.


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Re: [UC] The IRS on political involvement by tax-exempt organizations

[Frank]

The original article in the Daily News says this:"Included in the  
setup were "Knox for Mayor" posters, which made Walker think this was  
unusual community service indeed."


Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 10:24 AM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:

 There is no evidence or statement saying the volunteers  
participated in promoting or opposing a candidate in any way.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

What does this mean exactly?

I believe my point about boundaries was clarified in the final  
paragraph of my post. Going outside of any kind of boundary can  
sometimes be for the greater good of the organization. The person who  
makes that decision, though, will sometimes be called on to justify  
their decision. I'm sure that's exactly what's happening now.


Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 08:42 AM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:


Malcolm X Park and Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell
are community partners of UCD, Penn, and many of the
board institutions.



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Re: [UC] The IRS on political involvement by tax-exempt organizations

[Frank]

From the article:

"The next day, they drove us out to Malcom X Park [51st and Osage]  
and had us unload, inflate the Moon Bounces and set everything up,"  
Walker said.


Included in the setup were "Knox for Mayor" posters, which made  
Walker think this was unusual community service indeed.


Sounds to me like the community service workers did the entire setup.

Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 03:12 PM, Doc Baldy wrote:

Does that mean that Walker posted Knox posters or that yellow  
jackets or even Councilwoman' Blackwell's other volunteers posted  
Knox posters while Walker set up the moon bounce?  I don't believe  
Walker ever specifically stated that he was directed to hang Knox  
posters.


Cheers,
Stephen


On 5/25/07, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The original article in the Daily News says this:"Included in the  
setup were "Knox for Mayor" posters, which made Walker think this  
was unusual community service indeed."


Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 10:24 AM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:


 There is no evidence or statement saying the volunteers  
participated in promoting or opposing a candidate in any way.





--

--
University City Yoga
http://www.ucyoga.com

[UC] Malcolm X Park rally video

[Frank]

Jannie Blackwell said it was a church rally. Well, there *was* a  
church event there but her rally wasn't part of it.


From malcolmxpark.org:

http://malcolmxpark.org/?p=51

Tom Knox and Jannie Blackwell Rally in Malcolm X Memorial Park

Posted May 13, 2007 at 6:11 pm · Filed under Uncategorized, Park Events

On Saturday May 12th, mayoral candidate Tom Knox and his wife Linda  
were joined by Jannie Blackwell in a political rally. A local pastor  
had reserved the gazebo for the day, so the rally took place in front  
of the storage shed. Some sights and sounds from the brief rally:


This video is not an endorsement of any candidate!

[UC] Friends of Malcolm X Park web site created TODAY!

[Frank]

Nice try Greg but...

THE SUPPOSED FRIENDS OF MALCOLM X PARK WEB SITE WAS CREATED TODAY!!!

Domain ID: D18037734-LRMS
Domain Name: MALCOLMXPARK.INFO
Created On: 25-May-2007 18:58:33 UTC

Here's the rest of the whois info:
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp? 
domain=malcolmxpark.info


Hilarious.

Frank


On May 25, 2007, at 07:44 PM, Greg Smith wrote:

The most important info on that website is that it is someone's  
personal blog and not an official website of the park or even the  
friends of the park.   It was certainly irresponsible of channel 6  
to imply that this was the website of the park.


http://malcolmxpark.org/?page_id=82

The friends site is here: www.malcolmxpark.info

Also, neither of the students have said they passed out any  
campaign info.  Given political plastering in West Philadelphia I'm  
not surprised there were Tom Knox posters in all 4 corners of the  
park but who knows how long they'd been there, or who put them there.


John is getting a raw deal.  I hope he stays with UCD but I could  
imagine a number of private organizations (Drexel, Temple, CC  
District) would be more than happy to steal him away and are  
recruiting hard while he's away from UCD.


Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jannie Blackwell said it was a church rally. Well, there *was* a  
church event there but her rally wasn't part of it.


From malcolmxpark.org:

http://malcolmxpark.org/?p=51

Tom Knox and Jannie Blackwell Rally in Malcolm X Memorial Park

Posted May 13, 2007 at 6:11 pm · Filed under Uncategorized, Park  
Events


On Saturday May 12th, mayoral candidate Tom Knox and his wife Linda  
were joined by Jannie Blackwell in a political rally. A local  
pastor had reserved the gazebo for the day, so the rally took place  
in front of the storage shed. Some sights and sounds from the brief  
rally:


This video is not an endorsement of any candidate!


Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

[UC] ...and another thing

[Frank]

Both malcolmxpark.org and malcolmxpark.info are registered at and  
hosted by the same web host. Also the "Friends" text on both sites  
are identical.


Frank

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Re: [UC] self storage

[Frank]

If you can get through all the deer.

Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 10:34 PM, Ross Bender wrote:

I hear there's still space open for self storage in the Woodland  
Cemetery.


On 5/25/07, John Desmond <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
Matthew Snyder wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a clean, safe, affordable (pick 2 of 3 if
> necessary) self storage facility in the area?  It doesn't have to be
> in West Philadelphia, but somewhere within a few miles would be  
good.

> I'm looking for about 75 square feet.
>
> Thanks,
> Matthew


Salutations, gentlefolk,

I've had a locker at All-City Self Storage, on Sansom between 55th and
56th, for about two years now.  I've found the place kept clean, the
workers courteous and competent, the prices among the lowest (and I
checked most locations in West Philly and eastern Delco), and the
security seems solid.

Check it out for yourself, tho.

Yours, John Desmond


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--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] ...and another thing

[Frank]

Did I say anything about a conspiracy?

I found the timing of the creation of the Friends web site a bit odd  
but I think the blogger may have explained that adequately. He had a  
personal blog about Malcolm X Park which Action News mistook for an  
"official" park web site. To correct this mistaken impression, he  
created an actual official web site. I'm sure he has taken some heat  
for the rally posting and did his best to fix what he could. I'm glad  
he didn't just take down the blog entry and video. (No! That's just  
what they're expecting us to do!!)


What I do think is strange is that Greg Smith, who I've never noticed  
on the listserv before, pointed out the Friends blog mere hours after  
it was registered as a domain.


Frank

On May 26, 2007, at 02:39 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:

I can see that you've got the technical details right, but what  
conspiracy

is it that this proves?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Behalf Of Frank
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:49 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: [UC] ...and another thing

Both malcolmxpark.org and malcolmxpark.info are registered at and
hosted by the same web host. Also the "Friends" text on both sites
are identical.

Frank

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Re: [UC] Clean? The SEPTA Concourses? You must be joking! [Was: An example of the potential for abuse

[Frank]

Like this at 15th & Market? I wish I could email the odor!

http://www.overheardinchat.com/oicpics/septa-001.jpg

or this at 15th & Locust (Yes, they're human!):

http://www.overheardinchat.com/oicpics/septa-002.jpg

and the world's most inappropriate slogan:

http://www.overheardinchat.com/oicpics/septa-003.jpg

No they're not!

Frank


On May 26, 2007, at 01:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



In a message dated 5/26/07 8:24:21 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The following, from today's Inquirer, is about the Center City  
District (CCD). It is another example of the potential for abuse  
by organizations such as UCD.This article shows abuse in the  
form of putting a bunch of productively-employed workers -- about  
whose performance nobody seems to be complaining -- out of jobs  
based on a no-bid contract which the present people say they could  
have undercut if given the chance.


Krigman Al, you're really stretching things again here!

My husband read part of that article out loud to me this morning as  
we had breakfast.  He read it because we were both stunned to find  
that there is a cleaning contract with SEPTA for its concourses.   
Have you ever *been* in the concourses?  If so, have you ever seen  
them looking anywhere near *clean*?  I love the trolleys and take  
them downtown every time I go.  I walk in the concourses to get to  
the MSB building from 15th & Market, to get from Market St. back to  
the trolleys, and at various other points under and around City  
Hall.  The concourses are absolutely filthy.  Someone must pick up  
trash, because you don't see overflowing trash cans, but other than  
that, I can't even remotely imagine using the word "clean" to  
describe the conditions there.


So if it were up to me to try to make a change, I surely wouldn't  
renew the contract of the current "cleaner."


Lamond Melani


**
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Smashed car window alert!

[Frank]

Sometime this morning or afternoon the rear wheel was taken from my  
bicycle on Woodland Terrace. It was locked up next to the porch,  
that's beyond the front gate and up the walk. A housemate's bike  
which wasn't locked is gone from the porch. I also think the thief  
took my Netflix movies from the mail which was left in the entryway.


I was on the porch interacting with some neighborhood cats around 4  
or 5 this morning and didn't notice anything wrong. Since both movies  
are missing, I'm guessing this happened in broad daylight.


Frank

On May 26, 2007, at 08:14 PM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:

My car was broken into on the 4700 block of Warrington earlier this  
week.  Rear passenger vent window was broken, trunk popped and  
tools, a flashlight, and minor stuff stolen.   Called the police  
who took a phone report.





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [UC] Smashed car window alert!
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 15:16:20 EDT

In a message dated 5/26/2007 3:03:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

a car near our house that had been broken into, and said that it  
was happening along 49th  street

as well—900 blocks

Anybody else know of the same thing on other  blocks?
We have a stronger case for going to the cops and asking for  
increased

patrols if it's widespread.

Al Krigman




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Re: [UC] The IRS on political involvement by tax-exempt organizations

[Frank]

None of 1 through 5 matter if the event was indeed a Knox rally. If  
it was, they shouldn't have been working there at all, no matter what  
they were doing. Unfortunately, we'll never know since it's the  
students' word against Jannie Blackell's and we all know where that  
train is going.


As far as what they were asked to do, they were asked to set  
"everything" up and the setup included Knox for Mayor posters. How  
much more clear can it be? It doesn't matter what they were asked to  
do with them (unless it was to leave them alone) or if they refused.  
What matters to me is that they were even asked.


I think this is a really minor incident and no one should lose their  
job over it. On the other hand, the people involved might want to  
think twice the next time they need to trade favors.


Frank

On May 26, 2007, at 07:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Or 5.  Other people were there and set up Knox posters while we  
were setting up.


C'mon folks, as much as you like to engage on this topic, the list  
serve is not conducting an investigation, much less an evidentiary  
hearing.  This (not S's post, but the whole discussion) is Exhibit  
A on the benefits of confronting witnesses and cross examination.



-Original Message-
From: S. Sharrieff Ali <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Frank' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Sat, 26 May 2007 2:16 pm
Subject: RE: [UC] The IRS on political involvement by tax-exempt  
organizations


We have no way so far of verifying his statements. I really am unsure
what he means when he says :

“included in the setup were Knox for Mayor posters”.

Can you ask him?

Is he referring to:

They were asked to carry posters and campaign materials to the park?
They were asked to hang the posters and he refused?
They were asked to pass out flyers to people in the park?
They were asked to sit at a table and say “Vote for Knox”?
There is no evidence or statement saying the volunteers  
participated in promoting or opposing a candidate in any way.

Promote:

 To urge the adoption of; advocate
 To attempt to sell or popularize by advertising or publicity
 To help establish or organize by securing financial backing

Oppose:

To act or be in opposition.

Fentonize:

To be left out to hang by Employing Organization and Executive  
Director.



S



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank

Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:39 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] The IRS on political involvement by tax-exempt  
organizations


The original article in the Daily News says this:"Included in the  
setup were "Knox for Mayor" posters, which made Walker think this  
was unusual community service indeed."


Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 10:24 AM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:


 There is no evidence or statement saying the volunteers  
participated in promoting or opposing a candidate in any way.
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's  
free from AOL at AOL.com.

[UC] Recycling article

[Frank]

This is an interesting, long article about water bottles from today's  
New York Times Magazine.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/magazine/27Bottle-t.html? 
ex=1337918400&en=1b380dd81debf334&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss


Frank

[UC] Cindy Sheehan gives up

[Frank]

From phawker.com:

Sheehan said she had sacrificed a 29-year marriage and endured  
threats to put all her energy into stopping the war. What she found,  
she wrote, was a movement “that often puts personal egos above peace  
and human life.”


But she said the most devastating conclusion she had reached “was  
that Casey did indeed die for nothing … killed by his own country  
which is beholden to and run by a war machine that even controls what  
we think”.


“Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next  
American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few  
months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human  
lives,” she wrote. It is so painful to me to know that I bought into  
this system for so many years and Casey paid the price for that  
allegiance. I failed my boy and that hurts the most.”


“I am going to take whatever I have left and go home,” Sheehan wrote.

“Camp Casey has served its purpose. It’s for sale. Anyone want to buy  
five beautiful acres in Crawford, Texas?”

[UC] New detective

[Frank]

A Philadelphia Policeman posted this to PhillyBlog. I feel certain  
there are people on the list who have a thing or two to say:


I just wanted to inform the readers of the University City/West  
Philly thread that I have been reassigned to the Special  
Investigations Unit of SWDD.


Myself and another detective are now responsible for 18th District  
Robberies and Burglaries. The 18th District covers south of Market St  
from 30th to Cobbs Creek. The southern border is to Baltimore Ave in  
most cases to give you a general idea of the area.


Being that we are going to be held repsonsible for robberies in the  
area, I would prefer that we didnt have that many to handle in the  
first place. I would rather be proactive in preventing robberies as  
opposed to showing up after the fact every time and trying to solve  
them.


Not living in the area, I would like to hear some opinions from  
residents on how to protect you. What I mean is, what areas do you  
avoid? Where have you had bad experiences and where do you feel the  
least safe in general? I can look at crime maps and guess, but I  
prefer to hear from you.


I have my ideas already about what to do at a certain spotgetting  
lighting and a greater police presence at the 46th St El stop being  
number 1. There are too many robberies on Farragut St regarding Septa  
commuters and if you go out there at night you can see why.


Any and all input is appreciated and welcome.

http://www.phillyblog.com/philly/showthread.php?t=37571

Frank

Re: [UC] The UCD answer

[Frank]

As I stated before:

"As far as what they were asked to do, they were asked to set  
"everything" up and the setup included Knox for Mayor posters. How  
much more clear can it be? It doesn't matter what they were asked to  
do with them (unless it was to leave them alone) or if they refused.  
What matters to me is that they were even asked."


Frank

On May 29, 2007, at 08:46 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:

Glenn, you are taking a page from Al Krigman here, and it does not  
become you.  Affecting respect for your peers by using titles, but  
misnaming those you apparently hold in low regard is childish, and  
both of you know better.




I don’t recall hearing in these accounts that the students involved  
in community service were asked to do things they were  
conscientiously or otherwise opposed to doing.  I didn’t read:   
“and they made me nail Tom Knox posters to the trees in the park.”




What happened wasn’t black and white, and the kind of caricatures  
that listserv denizens create do nothing to clarify the issues—you  
make a raft of assumptions, all of them at the most negative end of  
the spectrum.  I make some similar ones, largely in the other  
direction.  Neither one of us has enough factual information to  
make a useful conclusion about what really went on.

Re: [UC] The UCD answer

[Frank]

On May 29, 2007, at 11:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

As I stated  before, you're determining facts based on double  
hearsay - you read what the reporter wrote about what someone may  
have told her.  If there were a good investigation, one thing it  
would do is have people interviewed and actually asked the  
questions directly about what happened.


The student appears to have told the reporter directly, by the way,  
if that's what the quotation marks around his statements mean, so  
it's no more hearsay than any other newspaper report and certainly  
not "double hearsay" since the student did not speak for or about  
anyone but himself.


People with lots of experience actually asking questions of  
witnesses will tell you that what people really know often doesn't  
align with what other people think the witnesses know, or what the  
reporter said.  It happens all the time.


People with lots of experience actually asking questions of witnesses  
will also tell me that what people know often *exactly* aligns with  
what other people think the witnesses know, or what the reporter  
said. So what?


Why are some people on this list so unable to believe that the  
saintly John Fenton might have made a mistake? I honestly don't  
believe UCD would have suspended John Fenton if nothing at all had  
occurred. I think they're investigating *how* it happened, not if.


Frank

Re: [UC] The UCD answer

[Frank]

Thanks for the clarification. Is it still double hearsay if I direct  
someone to the original article or post it in my original message. I  
did both. I can see why it would be but also that it might not.  
Several people also pointed to the 6ABC report in which the student  
can be observed speaking. Does the same rule apply there?


Frank

On May 30, 2007, at 10:55 AM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:


Paul,
You are correct in your characterization of "double hearsay".  If  
the reporter repeats (in a news report) what the original witmess  
said, that's hearsay because the reporter's knowledge is not based  
on firsthand observation, but on what s)he was told by someone who  
did have fisthand observation.  If I repeat what the reporter  
reported (the statement as reported in the news story), that's  
double hearsay: not only did I not have firsthand observation, but  
the person telling me did not have firsthand observation either.


Karen



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Fwd: [UC] The UCD answer
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:56:08 -0400


??? I know some people on the list may get into legal debates, but  
I'm not one, really.? But I must tell you that quotation marks  
don't negate hearsay but rather prove it.? And you're correct that  
newspapers are full of it.? That's why you don't usually see  
newspapers introduced into evidence in court!?
??? And while you're correct that the truth sometimes does align  
with the hearsay, you're also agreeing that it doesn't always.?
?? I'm not unable to believe anything about the incident but  
rather am objecting to those who are sure they know the truth  
based upon a newspaper article.? And I know people don't believe  
everything they read in the paper any more than they believe  
everything a cop tells them.? You may well be right in your  
reliance but it's possible you're not.








-Original Message-
From: Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Wed, 30 May 2007 1:24 am
Subject: Re: [UC] The UCD answer













On May 29, 2007, at 11:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



As I stated? before, you're determining facts based on double  
hearsay - you read what the reporter wrote about what someone may  
have told her.? If there were a good investigation, one thing it  
would do is have people interviewed and actually asked the  
questions directly about what happened.??







The student appears to have told the reporter directly, by the  
way, if that's what the quotation marks around his statements  
mean, so it's no more hearsay than any other newspaper report and  
certainly not "double hearsay" since the student did not speak for  
or about anyone but himself.





People with lots of experience actually asking questions of  
witnesses will tell you that what people really know often doesn't  
align with what other people think the witnesses know, or what the  
reporter said.? It happens all the time.?





People with lots of experience actually asking questions of  
witnesses will also tell me that what people know often *exactly*  
aligns with what other people think the witnesses know, or what  
the reporter said. So what?





Why are some people on this list so unable to believe that the  
saintly John Fenton might have made a mistake? I honestly don't? 
believe UCD would have suspended John Fenton if nothing at all had  
occurred. I think they're investigating *how* it happened, not if.





Frank


=





_ 
___
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's  
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Re: [UC] The UCD answer

[Frank]

and here's a new idea to add to the list of responsibilities:

 idea: ucd should remain scrupulously neutral in public
   questions/disputes/contests, not taking sides or
   even appearing to take sides.


A good precept politically, perhaps, but an impossible for any  
agency to carry out operationally in any walk of life. To follow  
your reasoning strictly, an adult-literacy program that choose to  
employ Curriculum A should refrain from taking any action as long  
as there were public advocates of Curriculum B. It would be better,  
you are in effect proposing, for there to be no literacy programs  
at all, than controversial literacy programs.


That's not what his reasoning says at all. He's saying that the adult- 
literacy program should choose the Curriculum without input from UCD.


Of course it's not possible to be completely neutral. Still, they  
should stay out of the business of endorsing candidates, even  
passively, and choose more carefully where they use their muscle.


I also think they could be more transparent about which businesses  
they help open and which they decline.


Frank

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Re: [UC] Re: [UC-Announce] ALERT: L&I ticketing trash today

[Frank]

Stop snitchin'!

Frank

On May 31, 2007, at 08:56 AM, Turner,Kathleen wrote:


How do I get them to come around to my block? Household across the
street puts out 10+ cans every week, no recycling in sight.

Kathleen




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Fisher
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:50 AM
To: univcity@list.purple.com
Subject: [UC] Re: [UC-Announce] ALERT: L&I ticketing trash today

Thanks for the heads up.  Did you have a blue bin with recycling out,
along with the trash?  When I got my not recycling ticket it was  
because

I put out the trash but not the recycling.  I was saving up the
recycling to take to the fire house.  Since they didn't see the  
blue bin

they assumed I wasn't recycling.

It was an easy ticket to fight, aside from the pain of taking a day  
off

work and getting down town.  I showed the judge(?) a photo of my car
filled with recycling and a print out of the CPN website explaining  
the

scholarship program.

Cheers,
Stephen


Jim Cummings wrote:

We just got a $25 ticket from L&I (8:25 AM) for trash not separated
from recyclables. THere is a guy walking around the neighborhood  
right



now. I had two cans each with bagged kitchen trash. My landlord took
photos. If you have a minute, you might want to take photos of your
trash just to be safe.



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Re: [UC] The UCD answer

[Frank]

Umm...Who said *that?* If I missed something, please explain it to me.

Frank


On Jun 1, 2007, at 02:48 AM, Anthony West wrote:

So to set a standard of universal contentment as the benchmark for  
any non-profit's legitimacy is absurd, an impossible test to meet.



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Re: [UC] The UCD answer

[Frank]

You're still not making sense. In the theoretical example *you* (not  
Ray) originally used, the decision about what content to teach was  
made by the agency, not by UCD. UCD's support would theoretically be  
forthcoming no matter what content was chosen. Any public complaint  
would have to be directed to the agency in question since UCD would  
be content-neutral.


I'm going to repeat what I said before: You seem to be mired in  
traditional method of communication and to believe that they are the  
*only* way things work. Seriously, you use the word "must" more than  
anyone I can remember. You make pronouncements about the way things  
"are" which completely disregard different methods of communication  
than the ones, if I can presume, you work best in.


Important decisions *do* get made without all of the parties involved  
talking face to face. I am reminded particularly of my involvement in  
Provincetown Community Television and the Provincetown Cable Advisory  
Board. Most of our negotiations, even controversial ones, with both  
Comcast and Outer Cape Television happened through email. The parties  
involved were just too geographically separate to be in the same  
place at the same time very often. I didn't know much when I started  
with them but I learned and eventually taught at our Community  
Television Station.


Frank

On Jun 1, 2007, at 05:19 PM, Anthony West wrote:


Frank,

Ray proposed that UCD "not take sides in public questions/disputes/ 
contests, not taking sides or even appearing to take sides."  
Therefore, Ray is saying, UCD could only support projects with  
which there was universal contentment in this community. And since  
it only takes one person with a keyboard to manufacture a "public  
question/dispute/contest", in an area with more than 50,000  
residents (at least on UC-list), this proposal is the kind of pipe  
dream that flourishes in unrealistic internet communities.


I repeat: this standard is absurd, an impossible test to meet for  
any one of the hundreds of organizations that operate in some sort  
of public-private interface throughout Philadelphia. Any  
governmental authority you might approach to put a chop on your  
regulatory proposals, will recognize this in a flash and tune you out.


Anybody who wants to consider developing a regulatory network for  
UCD needs to acquire a grounding of knowledge and common sense  
about how actual agencies and actual regulators work. It will  
require real study and real interaction with real people in the  
real world.


Pounding out an ever-expanding wishlist of single-issue edicts to a  
single-case agency one doesn't really know anything about, is a  
childish exercise in imaginary self-importance. Ray can do this if  
he wants. He can hold his conversation with nobody, in public, if  
he wants.


-- Tony West

- Original Message - From: "Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [UC] The UCD answer


Umm...Who said *that?* If I missed something, please explain it to  
me.


Frank


On Jun 1, 2007, at 02:48 AM, Anthony West wrote:

So to set a standard of universal contentment as the benchmark  
for  any non-profit's legitimacy is absurd, an impossible test to  
meet.



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Re: [UC] the wall on 4700 block Baltimore

[Frank]

Wouldn't they have to prove he was wrong??

Frank

On Jun 6, 2007, at 01:26 PM, Mike V. wrote:

If I were UCD, Glenn, I'd sue you for slander.  Or can you prove  
any of what you just claimed?  (rhetorical question. we already  
know the answer)


- Mike V.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Glenn

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 1:19 PM
To: tim dunn; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] the wall on 4700 block Baltimore

Tim,

It is almost certainly UCD taking down your notices.  They are  
opposed to the right to free speech and they do not care about the  
views or lives of people living in this neighborhood.

Re: [UC] the wall on 4700 block Baltimore

[Frank]

Hi Tim!!

I agree with you completely. It would be great to see the existing  
wall turned into something useful, rather than destroyed, even for  
something decorative. And 90% of the murals in this city are  
eyesores. I'd love to see that wall used for an Exquisite Corpse.


Frank

PS. This is Frank from The Heathens, btw. How've you been?


On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:06 PM, tim dunn wrote:

I've repeatedly taped a notice to the wall beside Benny's  
barbershop on the 4700 block of Baltimore.  The notice warns people  
who enjoy sitting there that UCD plans to remove the wall, and asks  
them to call UCD executive director Lewis Wendell.  The notice has  
been removed (but replaced) many times.  I've also placed a similar  
notice at Mariposa Food Co-op on this block.  My next step is to  
petition the neighbors on the block (my block), and try to save the  
wall.  Many of us want the wall to stay, but I've met with two who  
want it removed.  I believe that this removal would be costly and  
wasteful.  I would like to see benches placed in front of the wall  
because there no places to sit on the block, even to wait for a  
trolley!  I also would like to see plant-boxes attached to the back  
of the wall to make it more appealing.

Comments please!   Tim Dunn-

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from  
someone who knows.

Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Re: [UC] Blackwell calls to save Fenton's job

[Frank]

He's toast.

On Jun 7, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Anthony West wrote:

Two days after her office had said Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell  
had no plans to update the community about the Fenton-Knox affair  
in Malcolm X Park at the First Thursday meeting, she showed up  
promptly and did just that. She went much farther, angrily baring a  
serious rift between Univesrsity City District and her.


She delivered petitions with 300 signatures in support of Fenton.  
The room at Walnut St. West Library, filled as usual with 70  
people, most of them representatives from more than three dozen  
agencies and organizations that are active in West Philadelphia,  
noisily concurred and made forceful pleas to retain the popular UCD  
employee in his job. There was universal agreement Fenton has been  
a tireless supporter of the labors of all civic groups to improve  
their community.


Blackwell charged Fenton was being offered resignation with a  
severance package from UCD. She said she had asked to find ways to  
help underwrite his work but had been rebuffed. She said she had  
suggested mediators for the dispute but had been rebuffed.


UCD Executive Director Lewis Wendell attended the meeting. He read  
a previously published statement. Fenton, he reiterated, is still  
on paid administrative leave pending the results of an internal  
investigation. In addition, he said, "We are in discussions to  
resolve the matter."


Blackwell repeated her denial that she had involved Fenton or his  
community service team with a political rally for Tom Knox in the  
park. "Everybody knows I supported Tom Knox for Mayor," she said.  
"A couple of weeks before the election, the other candidates began  
releasing their supporters to support Michael Nutter. They didn't  
want Knox to win because he was an outsider. Nutter had no  
constituency of his own."


But the community service team was not involved in the Knox rally,  
she said. Instead, it was engaged in park cleanup and facilitation  
of another event, a fair that was going on in the park.


In this case, the Councilwoman said, her eyes flashing, "John  
Fenton and UCD did what they do. I work with Penn and UCD. But  
somebody decided to lie on him. I'm very disappointed."


Blackwell expressed her view that UCD has been slighting her in  
other ways for some time.


Although First Thursday is not a parliamentary body, Penn's  
Community Relations Director Glenn Bryan ceded the floor to the  
Councilwoman. Community members raised three motions, all of which  
passed with scarcely a dissenting voice. The meeting endorsed John  
Fenton and asked he be retained in his position. It asked that UCD  
policies in general be made public. It supported a community  
meeting to discuss concerns with UCD, that meeting to be organized  
by a committee from among the attendees at the meeting, which  
Sharrieff Ali volunteered to coordinate.


-- Tony West

Re: [UC] bike theft

[Frank]

That happened to me in the 70s while I attended a Poco/Elton John  
concert in Glassboro, believe it or not. Luckily I lived in the next  
town and I could walk home.


Frank

On Jun 12, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Jennifer Horner wrote:

to add BRIEFLY to the question of bike theft - a friend lost a bike  
because she locked it to a signpost on the street - the thief  
actually unscrewed the sign, removed it from the post, and lifted  
the bike up and off ! (probably working from the bed of a pickup at  
night)


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of S. Sharrieff Ali
Sent: Tue 6/12/2007 10:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: Warning : Damage to porch to Steal a bike and recent  
entry in the day


The real problem here is storing a bike on a porch. The answer is…


“JUST DON’T DO IT”.


Storing bikes on porches is just asking for trouble. If a thief  
sees a bike on a


porch not only will they attempt to steal the bike (and damage what  
ever it is chained to)


but also take a look in your windows to see what else is available.


I personally don’t believe window bars are necessary if you are  
doing some of the other


important anti-crime practices such as:


Trimming scrubs which block the pedestrian-way or porch-view.
Create well lit exteriors particularly installing porch lights.
Invest in a monitored alarm system for your home and display a sign  
or sticker.
Closing curtains when no one is at home or at night before you go  
to bed.
Not placing valuables in windows such as bikes or computers  
(laptops) etc.
Keeping a log of suspicious activity for your block and forwarding  
to the police.

Calling 911 when you see potentially dangerous things happening.

We need to be a bit smarter about crime & safety.


I have a block safety guide and a safety survey for distribution,  
just e-mail me off-list.



The keys are communicating with neighbors and the police about what  
is happening on your block.



S

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mariellen Smith

Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: Warning : Damage to porch to Steal a bike and recent  
entry in the day



It always struck me as strange that all those really nice houses  
around Osage and Larchwood don't have bars on the windows. The  
people with the really nice homes would presumably also have some  
really nice stuff. And they are the only houses around without  
bars. If you were going to steal, where would you go? I know that  
area looks like a nice suburb, but people seem to have forgotten  
that they are still in the city. The bars are not that pretty, but  
there is a reason why most homes have them.


The rule of Philadelphia is, 'If it's not locked up or nailed down,  
somebody's going to take it. And even if it is, somebody's still  
going to try.' This is certainly true with bikes. When you bring a  
bike into this city, you should probably just reconcile yourself to  
the fact that you are really just renting it. I'm on bike # 2. Bike  
# 1 was stolen off my porch on 43rd and Larchwood. It's unfortunate  
and it's not right, but it's how it is. There are lots of good  
people and nice homes in this area, but you need to remember where  
you are. You still need to be vigilant about your self, your home,  
and your belongings.


On a side note, that thief seems really bad at what he does.  
Hopefully, he will get caught soon and no one will get hurt.


-Mariellen Smith

At 07:11 PM 6/11/2007, Vivianne T. Nachmias wrote:


and I am told by my husband that a house on 400 block of 47th St.  
was broken into (window, first floor) during the day. the  
burglar was seen by some  one and scared him away a member of  
the househo0ld was on the 3rd floor and did not hear the peerson so  
maybe it happened fasst.

do be sure windows are locked.
Vivianne
On Jun 11, 2007, at 2:43 PM, Elizabeth F Campion wrote:




I do not have all the details yet, but a bike was stolen from a  
porch on the 4700 block of Baltimore.

The wooden Porch Railing that it was chained to was severely damaged.

It seems clear that a serial thief is in our midst and we need to  
exercise greater precautions until the thief is caught and stopped  
(if necessary via lengthy detention).  I hope you and your property  
are and remain safe.



Meanwhile, this bike was the primary form of transportation for a  
eco-friendly, female grad student.
So if anyone has an obsoleted or extra bicycle that (must be  
functioning, or within just a few dollars of working) that they can  
donate (or sell cheaply) that could suit a young woman about 5'7"  
tall, please let me know off list.



Other spare bikes, including kids bikes, helmets and parts, might  
be

Re: [UC] Reality check

[Frank]

John Fenton may well *be* fired. We've heard two conflicting reports,  
neither of which, in my opinion, come from a reliable source and both  
of whom are in a position to know and both of whom have reasons to  
spin. The truth is we have no idea what happened.


Frank

On Jun 12, 2007, at 06:28 PM, Anthony West wrote:

So Fenton isn't fired, as of today. You were at that meeting and  
you heard Wendell restate Fenton has not been fired. So there you are.


-- Tony West

Re: [UC] Reality check

[Frank]

First of all, that is one of the reasons I work for myself.

Secondly, if you think this never happens, you are more naive than  
you let on. Do you honestly believe everything a CEO says publicly  
about an employee's departure is true? Please say you don't. Why  
should this situation be any different?


According to Jannie Blackwell, one of the conditions of Fenton's  
severance package is that he not talk about it, Perhaps *that's* why  
he hasn't said anything.


How do you know it's evolving and not over? You're implying you know  
something the rest of us do not. Do you?


No one is saying negotiations about this are being conducted on the  
listserv. People are simply giving their opinions about what they  
believe has already occurred.


I am going to believe that someone else wrote this email and signed  
your name to it. It really is that preposterous to me.


Frank

On Jun 13, 2007, at 07:29 AM, Anthony West wrote:


Frank,

If you distrust your boss so much that you believe he would say in  
public, "Frank is not fired," after secretly having told you,  
"Frank, you're fired" -- then, in my opinion, you should quit now,  
before things reach this pass.


I might note John Fenton has not disputed in public this public  
contention of UCD's, that he's still an employee. And he's had many  
an opportunity.


All this is rapidly evolving even as we tap, of course. Real  
negotiations about matters of importance never take place on an  
unmoderated listserve.


-- Tony West
- Original Message -
From: Frank
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check

John Fenton may well *be* fired. We've heard two conflicting  
reports, neither of which, in my opinion, come from a reliable  
source and both of whom are in a position to know and both of whom  
have reasons to spin. The truth is we have no idea what happened.


Frank

On Jun 12, 2007, at 06:28 PM, Anthony West wrote:

So Fenton isn't fired, as of today. You were at that meeting and  
you heard Wendell restate Fenton has not been fired. So there you  
are.


-- Tony West

Re: [UC] Reality check

[Frank]

Not cheap at all. I'm replying to this:

All this is rapidly evolving even as we tap, of course. Real  
negotiations about matters of importance never take place on an  
unmoderated listserv.


He posed it as a statement which is why I responded the way I did.  
That is Tony's style: Broad statements of "fact" which are, in  
reality, his opinions. Notice the word "never" in the second  
sentence. Really? And "important." Important to whom? And who said  
these particular negotiations were happening here in the first place?  
No one did. It's a red herring.


This, I believe, is why Tony likes face-to-face meetings instead of  
email or listserv correspondence. In person people don't have time to  
react to this kind of nonsense before the next ridiculous sentence is  
uttered. In an email people have time to compose an answer based on  
what was actually said instead of a fleeting impression.


Frank


On Jun 13, 2007, at 01:50 PM, Brian Siano wrote:


Frank wrote:

First of all, that is one of the reasons I work for myself.

Secondly, if you think this never happens, you are more naive than  
you let on. Do you honestly believe everything a CEO says publicly  
about an employee's departure is true? Please say you don't. Why  
should this situation be any different?


According to Jannie Blackwell, one of the conditions of Fenton's  
severance package is that he not talk about it, Perhaps *that's*  
why he hasn't said anything.


How do you know it's evolving and not over? You're implying you  
know something the rest of us do not. Do you?
So we get the cheapest of the debating tactics: "Are you _sure_? Do  
you really _know_? How do you _really know_? Couldn't you be  
_wrong_?" Jesus, you sound like a freshman who's just read the  
_Republic_ for the first time.


All we know is this: Blackwell says that Fenton was offered a  
severance package (Could be true or not.). UCD says they're still  
investigating the issue ("Investigating".is a broad term: they  
might've made their minds up by now, but haven't acted on anything,  
and they could claim to be "investigating.") We can speculate all  
we want about these two different claims.


But there has been no _official_ word that John Fenton has been  
fired, asked to resign, resigned, or been exonerated. As far as the  
facts are known right now, Fenton is still an employee of UCD.


As far as I can tell, this is what Tony's been saying, and somehow  
many people here fail to grasp this.


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Re: [UC] Reality check

[Frank]

They're not listed on the web site.

Frank

On Jun 13, 2007, at 05:15 PM, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote:

also, is it true that marty and glenn bryan were removed from ucd's  
board? when? were any reasons given why?



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Re: [UC] Reality check

[Frank]

It *is* hard to believe yet, as he always says "Real negotiations  
about matters of importance never take place on an unmoderated  
listserve." (sic) I don't know how he finds time to sleep!


Frank

On Jun 14, 2007, at 09:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

<of email or listserv correspondence.>>


That's mind boggling.  As much time as he spends posting to the  
list, he must spend the rest of his waking hours engaging in face  
to face meetings so he can fast talk people.  Hard to believe.


Paul


-Original Message-
From: Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 5:52 pm
Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check

Not cheap at all. I'm replying to this:

All this is rapidly evolving even as we tap, of course. Real  
negotiations about matters of importance never take place on an  
unmoderated listserv.


He posed it as a statement which is why I responded the way I did.  
That is Tony's style: Broad statements of "fact" which are, in  
reality, his opinions. Notice the word "never" in the second  
sentence. Really? And "important." Important to whom? And who said  
these particular negotiations were happening here in the first  
place? No one did. It's a red herring.


This, I believe, is why Tony likes face-to-face meetings instead of  
email or listserv correspondence. In person people don't have time  
to react to this kind of nonsense before the next ridiculous  
sentence is uttered. In an email people have time to compose an  
answer based on what was actually said instead of a fleeting  
impression.


Frank


On Jun 13, 2007, at 01:50 PM, Brian Siano wrote:


Frank wrote:

First of all, that is one of the reasons I work for myself.

Secondly, if you think this never happens, you are more naive  
than you let on. Do you honestly believe everything a CEO says  
publicly about an employee's departure is true? Please say you  
don't. Why should this situation be any different?


According to Jannie Blackwell, one of the conditions of Fenton's  
severance package is that he not talk about it, Perhaps *that's*  
why he hasn't said anything.


How do you know it's evolving and not over? You're implying you  
know something the rest of us do not. Do you?
So we get the cheapest of the debating tactics: "Are you _sure_?  
Do you really _know_? How do you _really know_? Couldn't you be  
_wrong_?" Jesus, you sound like a freshman who's just read the  
_Republic_ for the first time.


All we know is this: Blackwell says that Fenton was offered a  
severance package (Could be true or not.). UCD says they're still  
investigating the issue ("Investigating".is a broad term: they  
might've made their minds up by now, but haven't acted on  
anything, and they could claim to be "investigating.") We can  
speculate all we want about these two different claims.


But there has been no _official_ word that John Fenton has been  
fired, asked to resign, resigned, or been exonerated. As far as  
the facts are known right now, Fenton is still an employee of UCD.


As far as I can tell, this is what Tony's been saying, and somehow  
many people here fail to grasp this.


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list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.


=
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's  
free from AOL at AOL.com.

Re: [UC] Move your car! Hazel (and Cedar?) Aves

[Frank]

How far up Cedar and Hazel does this go? A friend of mine at 47th &  
Cedar is away until tomorrow and I will have to find out how to move  
her car.


Frank

On Jun 18, 2007, at 08:28 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Jack hammer crews are working west on Hazel from 46th (and, by  
the sounds of it, Cedar Ave as well) cleaning up from the milling.   
A few people have left their cars on the block and workers are  
ringing bells trying to find them.  I haven't seen the tow trucks  
like they did for the milling, but you'd think they'll be called at  
some point.


Paul
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's  
free from AOL at AOL.com.

Re: [UC] Stars of West Philly

[Frank]

Friggin' heart-rendering, if you ask me.

Frank

On Jun 18, 2007, at 01:43 PM, Ross Bender wrote:

"West Philly G" is obvious homage to Amy Gutmann. "From the Block  
to the Yacht" is a heartrending testimonial as to how Penn and UCD  
have made "da Hood" cleaner and safer. It presents Amy in a cameo,  
dishing on how she found Freck Billionaire selling crack on 56th  
and Thompson and turned that boy into a star. The rap "I Cook It"  
testifies as to how Freck left a life of crime to cook hamburgers  
in the local Mickey D. Very tear-jerking stuff.

Re: [UC] 49th & Locust event

[Frank]

The dead guy is a reporter who refused to write what UCD wanted. To  
prove they were at least still concerned about the "clean" part of  
"clean and safe," they left him on the roof instead of throwing him  
onto the street.


Frank

On Jun 18, 2007, at 04:26 PM, Ross Bender wrote:




On 6/18/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Oh Kyle, why let facts and realities get in the way of good ol'
fashioned sensationalism?


Look, chowderhead, don't you find it just a *teensy* bit suspicious  
that on the EXACT SAME DAY the Inky publishes its glowing UCD  
"Report Card", some dude gets tossed off the roof (or beaten to  
death, whatever the internal inquiry will show) right WITHIN the  
boundaries of the new Cleaner and Safer UCD???


Coincidence, synchronicity, or conspiracy, take your choice, but as  
far as I'm concerned it was NO ACCIDENT.





--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] Mugging on Farragut St. Last Night

[Frank]

They were definitely "anarchistic vagabonds."

Frank

On Jun 19, 2007, at 07:47 AM, Kyle Cassidy wrote:

About three or four months ago I was coming home from the El, it  
was probably nine at night or so, and right at the intersection of  
farragut and sansom, in front of the vacant lot, a group of about  
six men who looked to be in their mid 20's, wearing hooded  
sweatshirts who had been walking up sansom surrounded me and  
stopped me, the one who was facing me said: "Hello Mr. Police  
Officer. Did you find what you were looking for?" They looked at me  
for about ten seconds and then walked off. It was strange and  
intimidating.


I'm sure it's unrelated, but that's become a lonely stretch of street.

Re: [UC] update: squatters released, others sought/muggings ... not funny

[Frank]

Please send me your list of appropriate subjects for humor. I'd hate  
to offend someone in the future.


Frank


On Jun 19, 2007, at 08:14 PM, missthin wrote:

OK, I just got home and had a chance to login and read what  
everyone's been up to.


I have to say, I am disappointed.  No, make that disgusted.

Where is it "clever" to mock and make jokes about a 28 year old  
person with their life ahead of them being brutally beaten to  
death.   These so-called anarchists have been around for years.  I  
used to see them in CC all the time and talked to a few.  Just to  
try to understand why they went around with "sratch" blue ink  
tattoos all over their faces, panhandling and dragging some poor  
dog or cat with them, squatting where they felt like it and jumping  
trains so they could winter in Florida.  Basically, they just don't  
care about anything or anyone but what they want.  What gives them  
or anyone the right to go so far as to kill someone doing their job  
of trying to evict them?


How is it that someone many of us know, after being beaten and  
mugged, is turned into a joke.   Yes, he was in a way lucky.  He  
was able to get up and get help, mainly because they didn't get his  
cellphone.  That doesn't dimish the fact that 6 punks with their  
faces covered jumped him.  It could have been you -- any of you.
And some other member of our list/our neighbors and friends have  
been mugged or robbed.  Where is this funny?


An older man, 2 doors from his own home dealing with someone  
holding a gun in his face.  That's appalling.


None of these incidents in any way merit being turned into a  
satire.  It's not cute, it's not witty, it's not appropriate.


All this bantering does is make people look shallow, uncaring and  
unfeeling.


Here's hoping no one else finds themself in these situations.  And  
let's try to keep an eye out for ourselves and each other.  After  
all, isn't that what villagers are supposed to do for each other?


Wendy

On 6/19/07, Brian Siano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Those making light of this situation ought to be ashamed of  
themselves.

>
> Ray tried to put an end to this by noting that someone died in this
> incident. And he was mocked by one person and ignored by others  
trying

> to outdo themselves in cleverness.
But we did manage to be more clever than the classic "assert superior
humanity by nagging people for making jokes" gambit.
> I wonder what the tenor of the postings would be if it were Mario
> having been killed rather than roughed up.
Well, you could kill Mario and see what happens.
> Where's your sense of humanity?
Dead.

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Re: [UC] UCD Related

[Frank]

OK, I'm naked. Now what?

Frank

On Jun 22, 2007, at 03:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


so bare with me



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Re: [UC] Found dog

[Frank]

I ran into a couple putting up signs this afternoon. They say the dog  
is a sweet, stocky, housebroken older male.  If the dog is yours,  
please call Stuart & Maura at 215-397-4144 or 215-514-7643.


Frank

On Jun 29, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Horowitz, Tina wrote:

On my way to work today I ran into someone who found a medium sized  
black dog outside the Green Line this morning.  He is going to post  
signs looking for the owner but I wanted to let everyone know in  
case anyone is looking for the dog.  The dog looked like maybe a  
lab mix but was smaller than most labs.  The guy who found her also  
said that she seems to be friendlier to women so it's possible her  
owner is female. The dog seems very friendly and does not seem like  
a stray.

Re: [UC] (no subject)

[Frank]

Where is Minitown?

Frank

On Jul 1, 2007, at 08:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





** See what's free at http:// 
www.aol.com.


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Re: [UC] Earthlink WiFi vs DSL

[Frank]

I've been on Earthlink WiFi for a couple of months now. The signal is  
inconsistent and the signal strength is never above 4 bars. It's not  
as fast as DSL or cable. I can connect to any of the three access  
points on my list and they all seem to work equally well.


There will be weeks at a time with no problems at all and then a few  
days in a row when I get disconnected a couple of times an hour.  
Also, the network doesn't show up at all in some of the interior  
rooms of the house even though they have windows. It's really  
frustrating. I joined as soon as the network showed up in my list of  
available networks, so I've been hoping it's because they're not done  
with the build-out yet. I remain hopeful but I'm still using Comcast  
90% of the time. I've been able to have two computers connected at  
the same time which is nice but transferring files between them is  
glacially slow.


Since I'm on disability, I'm supposed to get the service for $9.95 a  
month but the Wireless Philadelphia office hasn't called me back yet  
after several tries. In the meantime I'm paying the full $19.95. a  
one year contract is necessary as usual.


Also, it's sort of like hotel internet access. I have to sign in with  
my username and password at least once a day.


And that's the story so far.

Frank

On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:18 PM, Joe Clarke wrote:


Hey Tech Heads,
   What do you think of Earthlink's offer to go completely wireless  
eliminating the need for DSL & in-house Router?  Another selling  
point would be
the capability of accessing the signal anywhere in the city. This  
would have come in real handy with my last job, where I ended up  
using my laptop but had to
find unsecured signals since our IT department was having problems  
getting us hooked up.  Let me know what you think or if you know of  
a forum where

they're discussing this topic.

Thanks in Advance,
Joe Clarke

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Re: [UC] Earthlink WiFi

[Frank]

And here I thought wireless meant wireless. Stupid me. Shouldn't the  
Earthlink representative have told me that on the phone or sent one  
to me?


In any case, I've had wireless cards in my desktop and laptop  
computers for eight or so years and I'm not about to wire them now.  
What's the point if the signal is still inconsistent even with the  
modem? Also I haven't a land line phone for years either so dial-up  
ain't happening for me either.


Frank

On Jul 4, 2007, at 07:25 AM, Kirk Wattles wrote:

It sounds like you're accessing it mainly through a wireless card  
in your laptop, Frank.  People should know that you get a wireless  
modem that's supposed to pull in the signal better, and they even  
recommend that you take the modem with you for a better signal if  
you move around between semi-fixed locations (the modem needs to be  
plugged in, and comes with a big ethernet cord to connect it to the  
computer).


Only some sections of the city have been set up -- in West  
Philadelphia, mainly south of Baltimore Ave.  (A map of the current  
service area is at http://www.earthlink.net/wifi/cities/ )  You can  
see the Wi-Fi antennas on top of street lights.  They're a  
horizontal box (like a styrofoam takeout box) bolted to the bar  
near the light, with two white antennas sticking up.  I have a line- 
of-sight connection to one of those, about 300 feet through the  
glass of my window and some trees, and the signal is still iffy  
sometimes.


The speed is fine for me when there's a good connection (most of  
the time).  I test occasionally through the CNet "Bandwidth  
Meter" (under Internet Access), and I find I generally get about  
650 kbps, plus or minus 300 or so.  It's nearly always fast enough  
to watch YouTube videos without hesitations.  The downside is that  
it's not entirely reliable.  You can use their dial-up whenever the  
Wi-Fi isn't working, and actually I haven't had to do that since I  
started two weeks ago, but it is frustrating not to get an instant  
connection when the signal has dropped.


We'll find out in a few months if Earthlink is going to build out  
the whole network, and invest what they need to put in to make it  
work well.  They have a brand-new CEO, Rolla Huff, who has a  
reputation of being able to cut projects that aren't going to make  
enough money, and the municipal Wi-Fi projects are on his list to  
be considered.


In the meantime, the price is right (6.95 for 6 months, then 19.95)  
and in a year the modem will be paid off (free if you keep service  
for the year).


But did I say that the signal is iffy sometimes?

On Jul 4, 2007, at 4:46 AM, Frank wrote:

I've been on Earthlink WiFi for a couple of months now. The signal  
is inconsistent and the signal strength is never above 4 bars.  
It's not as fast as DSL or cable. I can connect to any of the  
three access points on my list and they all seem to work equally  
well.


There will be weeks at a time with no problems at all and then a  
few days in a row when I get disconnected a couple of times an  
hour. Also, the network doesn't show up at all in some of the  
interior rooms of the house even though they have windows. It's  
really frustrating. I joined as soon as the network showed up in  
my list of available networks, so I've been hoping it's because  
they're not done with the build-out yet. I remain hopeful but I'm  
still using Comcast 90% of the time. I've been able to have two  
computers connected at the same time which is nice but  
transferring files between them is glacially slow.


Since I'm on disability, I'm supposed to get the service for $9.95  
a month but the Wireless Philadelphia office hasn't called me back  
yet after several tries. In the meantime I'm paying the full  
$19.95. a one year contract is necessary as usual.


Also, it's sort of like hotel internet access. I have to sign in  
with my username and password at least once a day.


And that's the story so far.

Frank

On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:18 PM, Joe Clarke wrote:


Hey Tech Heads,
   What do you think of Earthlink's offer to go completely  
wireless eliminating the need for DSL & in-house Router?  Another  
selling point would be
the capability of accessing the signal anywhere in the city. This  
would have come in real handy with my last job, where I ended up  
using my laptop but had to
find unsecured signals since our IT department was having  
problems getting us hooked up.  Let me know what you think or if  
you know of a forum where

they're discussing this topic.

Thanks in Advance,
Joe Clarke

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Re: [UC] Earthlink WiFi vs DSL

[Frank]

Two computers set to Earthlink WiFi.

Frank

On Jul 4, 2007, at 08:52 AM, Doc Baldy wrote:


 I've been able to have two computers connected at the same time


Do you mean two computers connected to Earthlink or one computer
connected to Comcast and one to Earhtlink?  It's pretty easy and
relatively free to connect two computers to Comcast, even using a mix
of wired and wireless.

Happy 4th,
Stephen


On 7/4/07, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I've been on Earthlink WiFi for a couple of months now. The signal is
inconsistent and the signal strength is never above 4 bars. It's not
as fast as DSL or cable. I can connect to any of the three access
points on my list and they all seem to work equally well.

There will be weeks at a time with no problems at all and then a few
days in a row when I get disconnected a couple of times an hour.
Also, the network doesn't show up at all in some of the interior
rooms of the house even though they have windows. It's really
frustrating. I joined as soon as the network showed up in my list of
available networks, so I've been hoping it's because they're not done
with the build-out yet. I remain hopeful but I'm still using Comcast
90% of the time. I've been able to have two computers connected at
the same time which is nice but transferring files between them is
glacially slow.

Since I'm on disability, I'm supposed to get the service for $9.95 a
month but the Wireless Philadelphia office hasn't called me back yet
after several tries. In the meantime I'm paying the full $19.95. a
one year contract is necessary as usual.

Also, it's sort of like hotel internet access. I have to sign in with
my username and password at least once a day.

And that's the story so far.

Frank

On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:18 PM, Joe Clarke wrote:

> Hey Tech Heads,
>What do you think of Earthlink's offer to go completely wireless
> eliminating the need for DSL & in-house Router?  Another selling
> point would be
> the capability of accessing the signal anywhere in the city. This
> would have come in real handy with my last job, where I ended up
> using my laptop but had to
> find unsecured signals since our IT department was having problems
> getting us hooked up.  Let me know what you think or if you know of
> a forum where
> they're discussing this topic.
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Joe Clarke
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive  
information, see

> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.


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--

--
University City Yoga
http://www.ucyoga.com



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[UC] Speaking of healthy trees... (OON: Out of neighborhood)

[Frank]

Didn't someone say that there were going to be new trees planted  
around the Logan Square fountain? The landscaping looks finished to  
me. Philadelphia City Planners love their shadeless parks!


Frank

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[UC] Penn is a cruel mistress...I mean landlord

[Frank]

From a PhillyBlog thread about NPDF:

Our elevator hasn't worked in over a year, the washer and dryer in  
the building eats clothes, and homeless people sleep in our hallway  
because of substandard locks.


http://www.phillyblog.com/philly/showthread.php?t=38558

Frank

[UC] Cheap Dates

[Frank]

The latest Cheap Dates on philebrity.tv features the Satellite Cafe,  
Vientiane,  jazz in Cedar Park and Dahlak’s back bar. Mark in the  
video sat next to me most of the day at BlogPhiladelphia and I didn't  
even realize it was him. Doh.


http://www.philebrity.tv/2007/07/11/cheap-dates-baltimore-avenue/ 
#more-369


Frank

[UC] Cheap Dates (fixed)

[Frank]

Sorry, I previously posted the incorrect URL.

The latest Cheap Dates on philebrity.tv features the Satellite Cafe,  
Vientiane,  jazz in Cedar Park and Dahlak’s back bar. Mark in the  
video sat next to me most of the day at BlogPhiladelphia and I didn't  
even realize it was him. Doh.


http://www.philebrity.tv/category/cheap-dates/

Frank

[UC] FREE Earthlink WiFi day passes!!

[Frank]

I grabbed a about a dozen Earthlink WiFi one-day free passes at  
BlogPhiladelphia today. If anyone wants to try it out for a day,  
write to me offlist and I'll send you the info you need.


By the way, the event was really worthwhile for anyone who is  
interested in social networking sites as well as how to integrate  
other technologies into a blog or web site. I am 53 and consider  
myself pretty savvy technologically. I was amazed at how theses folks  
in their 20s can multitask so seamlessly. There were people all  
around me uploading pictures to flickr, messaging to twitter, writing  
code (working), chatting with their friends and live blogging, all  
while fully engaged in the ongoing discussion. Everyone I met was  
very friendly and willing to share information. Also, the event was  
free with way too much free food. Thanks to the GPTMB!!


Frank

Re: [UC] FREE Earthlink WiFi day passes!!

[Frank]

I expressed my concerns about so much "social networking" helping  
spawn a culture of narcissism among other things. Only one person, my  
age, agreed with me and then only after the session was over. I don't  
think I could work like that myself but I have to admit that I  
learned a lot of cool stuff just by watching those who were sitting  
around me. One of the folks who was constantly busy--live blogging to  
phillyist.com in this case--was a woman who wrote a blog post last  
week stating that there is now an overall expectation that people  
will talk during movies because everyone is so used to constant  
input. She said point blank that no one can sit still and be quiet  
for an hour and a half! She was defending herself because she had  
been repeatedly shushed at the Ritz. She writes a weekly column on  
manners, of all things! I thanked her for using some of my photos in  
the past couple of weeks and she went back to pecking on her keyboard.


I did have a good time, learned a lot, ate tons of free food and met  
some nice folks as well as some very attractive men. It was well  
worth my time.


Frank

On Jul 14, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Dan Myers wrote:

Unfortunately Frank, I do not see how that much multi-tasking is  
good for anyone. It brings on such high stress, tension, and can't  
be good for the economy of the planet. I would not be impressed if  
I saw the sight you were describing, I would feel pity. I am glad  
you still had a good time though and free food is always great!


Dan Myers

On Jul 13, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Frank wrote:

I grabbed a about a dozen Earthlink WiFi one-day free passes at  
BlogPhiladelphia  today. If anyone wants to try it out for a day,  
write to me offlist and I'll send you the info you need.


By the way, the event was really worthwhile for anyone who is  
interested in social networking sites as well as how to integrate  
other technologies into a blog or web site. I am 53 and consider  
myself pretty savvy technologically. I was amazed at how theses  
folks in their 20s can multitask so seamlessly. There were people  
all around me uploading pictures to flickr, messaging to twitter,  
writing code (working), chatting with their friends and live  
blogging, all while fully engaged in the ongoing discussion.  
Everyone I met was very friendly and willing to share information.  
Also, the event was free with way too much free food. Thanks to  
the GPTMB!!


Frank





--
to the power of breathing,
Dan Myers
Intuitive Masseur
215.901.0899

Re: [UC] Re: Make a difference - Take Back the Tap!

[Frank]

I'm not sure if Dasani (Coca-Cola) and Aquafina (Pepsico) are better  
or worse than the more exitic brands. They are both just filtered  
local tap water with some minerals added to make them "taste" more  
like water and bottled at your local bottling plant. Leave it to the  
big boys to get us to pay for tap water.


Frank

On Jul 16, 2007, at 10:23 PM, Isabel Lugo wrote:

I'm reading this in gmail.  As you may know, gmail is supported by  
advertising.


I am currently seeing a link to fijiwater.com.  I won't go there,
because I went there this morning while writing a post in my blog in
which I lamented this exact same thing.

I understand why people buy bottled water, for convenience.
Basically, you're paying for the bottle.  But I can't see why it makes
sense to buy water that comes from eight thousand miles away!  Water's
the same everywhere.

On 7/16/07, Anthony West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Philadelphia tap water regularly wins championship marks among  
municipal

water systems for the purity and safety of its water. It derives its
water from the local groundwater of Eastern Pennsylvania, which I  
find
delicious. It's delicious when it comes out of a spring and  
bottled by
Wissahickon, and it's also delicious when it flows downstream and  
comes

out of a Philadelphia citizen's tap.

The only thing you're ever likely to run into with Philly tapwater  
is an

occasional chlorine smell, if the system was concerned about an
attractive condition for bacterial contamination. (If the Perrier Co.
experiences a similar potential-contamination condition, it  won't
tell you,  won't do anything and  will charge you more for its
water, without additives, than Coke will for its water with  
additives.

More money for marketing hype!)

If you are disturbed by a temporary chlorine smell, chill your  
tapwater.

Heating water brings out the chlorine odor dramatically; chilling it
makes the odor go away. Chlorine is not a contaminant; it is a  
treatment

agent harmless at low doses.

I am increasingly disturbed by the shameless marketing of the earth's
most basic resource, water. I find in local stores water that has  
been

shipped in fossil-fuel-based containers from 8,000 miles from Fiji,
burning fossil fuels all the way. And the end result is a  
Philadelphian

drinks water from Fiji instead of water from Philadelphia. What
damaging, earth-hating baloney! Let us all resolve to drink local  
water,
starting today. Forget all the silly marketing hype about bottled  
water,
wherein private capitalists rely on you to believe them without  
checking

a word of their facts, ever, when they disparage municipal water.

-- Tony West

Vivianne T. Nachmias wrote:
> bottled water is usually transported of course using gasoline!  to
> faraway, e.g. Maine water to us or the south, Appalachian water  
to the

> north, etc. as probably it seems purer if from some far off country
> place... (one guy up north, started a toxic waste dump, and just  
put
> it on his meadow, hence it went into the ground water in that  
bit of

> country..)
>
> actually PHILA water is very careflly monitored and only might be
> dangerous right after a heavy storm, when the sewer system gets
> overloaded... but it tastes better MUCH after boiling, we find.



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Re: [UC] RE: Attempted Assault/ Robbery on 4800 Beaumont

[Frank]

Thanks for saying this, Wilma. In my opinion, this can't be stressed  
enough. It's been so obvious to me for so long that I can't believe  
everyone can't see it. It deeply scares me. Bill Maher always says  
that parents today make the huge mistake of trying to be their  
children's friends instead of their parents. He's so right.


Frank

On Jul 20, 2007, at 07:13 PM, Wilma de Soto wrote:


Yes, It's sad.

However, the worst is yet to come.

Adults must realize that at least the past two generations have been
socialized to be violent.

First of all, children are naturally self-centered, cruel, mean and  
violent.


People like us had people who were called adults, whose job was to  
teach
restraint of the primordial childish urges and teach them to be  
productive

citizens into the society into which they were born.

Instead of preparing the child for the world, they are trying to  
change the

world for their child.

Children are now born perfect.  Their parents dictate to camp  
counselor,

futbol coaches, dance instructors, school teachers etc.

No wonder children have no social decorum.


On 7/20/07 5:36 PM, "Anthony West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


That is so sad, Wilma.

-- Tony West

Wilma de Soto wrote:
That 18 year-old who shot the 14 year-old on the bike was a  
former student

at my school.

This is the second incident involving former students of mine in  
the last

few months.






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Re: [UC] RE: Attempted Assault/ Robbery on 4800 Beaumont

[Frank]

This is interesting from WaPo: Brain Immaturity Could Explain Teen  
Crash Rate


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52687-2005Jan31.html

I also can't stand being assaulted in public by other people's  
supposedly "cute" kids. Either in a restaurant, at an ATM or bouncing  
beach balls through a supermarket. The world is not everyone's living  
room as Jillian Ashley Blair Ivey of Phillist, formerly of the Penn  
Writers House, seems to think ir is.  She likes to talk during movies  
at The Ritz.

http://phillyist.com/2007/06/22/return_to_sende_81.php

Frank

On Jul 22, 2007, at 09:15 AM, Wilma de Soto wrote:

I have been working with kids a long time.  Kids accost me all the  
time.


By that I mean I could be sitting in a restaurant and a toddler I  
have never
met will leave their parents' table and come over to me totally  
unbidden,
arms outstretched.  If they are able to talk, they do. It happens  
in grocery
stores, malls and I have never been able figure out why.  It's  
weird and has

always amused friends or family who may be with me at the time.

The irony is when I impose limits and standards for behavior,  
school work

etc., they grumble and groan at first, but later they LIKE it.

They are free to concentrate on being a child with me because there  
is a
consistent adult presence they can trust.  They don't have to act  
like a

shrunken adult, something they don't handle very well anyway.

They come before school because I need help.  They eat lunch in my  
room
because I need help.  They stay after school because I need help.   
I am the
most helpless person in the world and that's why they have to hang  
around.
At least that's THEIR story.  I know they just want to hang around  
with
someone they trust before going home to who-knows-what, so I let  
them "help"

me.

Sometimes, they'll ask me the same question two or three times just  
to check
if the answer is still no.  When I stick to my guns, they smile and  
say

"OK."  It's like they're just checking.

Children just don't think the way adults do or process the world as  
we do.
There are only certain things they can handle at certain stages of  
their
development, allowing of course for some children who are ahead for  
their

age or behind.

Still, they are not adults.  We are.


On 7/22/07 8:28 AM, "Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Thanks for saying this, Wilma. In my opinion, this can't be stressed
enough. It's been so obvious to me for so long that I can't believe
everyone can't see it. It deeply scares me. Bill Maher always says
that parents today make the huge mistake of trying to be their
children's friends instead of their parents. He's so right.

Frank

On Jul 20, 2007, at 07:13 PM, Wilma de Soto wrote:


Yes, It's sad.

However, the worst is yet to come.

Adults must realize that at least the past two generations have been
socialized to be violent.

First of all, children are naturally self-centered, cruel, mean and
violent.

People like us had people who were called adults, whose job was to
teach
restraint of the primordial childish urges and teach them to be
productive
citizens into the society into which they were born.

Instead of preparing the child for the world, they are trying to
change the
world for their child.

Children are now born perfect.  Their parents dictate to camp
counselor,
futbol coaches, dance instructors, school teachers etc.

No wonder children have no social decorum.


On 7/20/07 5:36 PM, "Anthony West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



That is so sad, Wilma.

-- Tony West

Wilma de Soto wrote:

That 18 year-old who shot the 14 year-old on the bike was a
former student
at my school.

This is the second incident involving former students of mine in
the last
few months.






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Re: [UC] Kids "Accosting" - (was 4800 assault)

[Frank]

ways of Chante Kimes made a load of money because she wore  
stillettoes to Pathmark in Camden and had a slip 'n' fall. She never  
offered Cecilio a penny for school but financed his cosmetic surgery  
and a hair transplant.


I recently saw a fake "motivational poster" with a picture of a  
McDonalds-like container of French Fries on it. It said "POTENTIAL.  
Not everyone grows up to be an astronaut."


Frank

On Jul 22, 2007, at 11:08 AM, Joe Clarke wrote:


Wilma,
 Perhaps I need to look up the definition of "accost", but what you  
describe does not seem, to my understanding,
the same as being accosted.  What you experience with children  
sounds wonderful .  I also think kids need to be
taught what is right and how to do things.  This requires patience  
and a sensitivity to their needs, especially their need for  
boundaries.

I agree with you and Frank
that kids need us to be adults, not just buddies who seek their  
approval.  Giving kids too many choices is also a way
of overburdening kids, while abdicating our responsibility to set  
the agenda, or make necessary decisions about the day. Making them
little "Choosers" is just prepping them to be mindless consumers  
later on. Kids are great but over-romanticizing their innocence is  
a way of placing the burden on them to be playthings in

our fantasy world of life.
   I say all of this mindful of the different stages of  
development.  We treat five year olds different from 10 year olds,  
of course.


Joe Clarke


Wilma de Soto wrote:
I have been working with kids a long time.  Kids accost me all the  
time.


By that I mean I could be sitting in a restaurant and a toddler I  
have never
met will leave their parents' table and come over to me totally  
unbidden,
arms outstretched.  If they are able to talk, they do. It happens  
in grocery
stores, malls and I have never been able figure out why.  It's  
weird and has

always amused friends or family who may be with me at the time.

The irony is when I impose limits and standards for behavior,  
school work

etc., they grumble and groan at first, but later they LIKE it.

They are free to concentrate on being a child with me because  
there is a
consistent adult presence they can trust.  They don't have to act  
like a

shrunken adult, something they don't handle very well anyway.

They come before school because I need help.  They eat lunch in my  
room
because I need help.  They stay after school because I need help.   
I am the
most helpless person in the world and that's why they have to hang  
around.
At least that's THEIR story.  I know they just want to hang around  
with
someone they trust before going home to who-knows-what, so I let  
them "help"

me.

Sometimes, they'll ask me the same question two or three times  
just to check
if the answer is still no.  When I stick to my guns, they smile  
and say

"OK."  It's like they're just checking.

Children just don't think the way adults do or process the world  
as we do.
There are only certain things they can handle at certain stages of  
their
development, allowing of course for some children who are ahead  
for their

age or behind.

Still, they are not adults.  We are.


On 7/22/07 8:28 AM, "Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Thanks for saying this, Wilma. In my opinion, this can't be stressed
enough. It's been so obvious to me for so long that I can't believe
everyone can't see it. It deeply scares me. Bill Maher always says
that parents today make the huge mistake of trying to be their
children's friends instead of their parents. He's so right.

Frank

On Jul 20, 2007, at 07:13 PM, Wilma de Soto wrote:



Yes, It's sad.

However, the worst is yet to come.

Adults must realize that at least the past two generations have  
been

socialized to be violent.

First of all, children are naturally self-centered, cruel, mean and
violent.

People like us had people who were called adults, whose job was to
teach
restraint of the primordial childish urges and teach them to be
productive
citizens into the society into which they were born.

Instead of preparing the child for the world, they are trying to
change the
world for their child.

Children are now born perfect.  Their parents dictate to camp
counselor,
futbol coaches, dance instructors, school teachers etc.

No wonder children have no social decorum.


On 7/20/07 5:36 PM, "Anthony West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:




That is so sad, Wilma.

-- Tony West

Wilma de Soto wrote:


That 18 year-old who shot the 14 year-old on the bike was a
former student
at my school.

This is the second incident involving former students of mine in
the last
few months.





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Re: [UC] not "true public"

[Frank]

And there's this article from today's NY Times about Columbia  
University's expansion to the north:


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/nyregion/thecity/22manh.html? 
ex=1342756800&en=8b256b2e1d8e1c13&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss


Hilariously, the University spokesmodel tries to characterize their  
takeover of the Manhattanville neighborhood as something they're  
doing for the greater good of mankind:


"And the benefits will also spill over to others, the school argues.  
“Columbia wants to work on the kinds of issues that impact humanity,  
like Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease,” said La-Verna Fountain, a  
Columbia spokeswoman."


She sounds like a Miss America contestant!

Frank



On Jul 23, 2007, at 08:42 PM, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote:

the latest issue of penn's alumni magazine (the pennsylvania  
gazette) has a fascinating cover story on laurie olin, penn's  
renowned landscape architect, and the field of landscape  
architecture -- its place in the public sphere.


olin's projects over the years include the barcelona olympic  
village, los angeles' getty center, penn's college green,  
manhattan's bryant park, and philly's independence mall. his latest  
project, his most ambitious and in partnership with frank gehry, is  
to transform 22 acres in brooklyn into a mixed use development  
called atlantic yards, a controversial project that would make it  
'twice as dense as the most crowded census tract in the country'  
and which is strongly opposed by 'half the leading lights in  
brooklyn' who see it as a 'creeping corporate usurpation of the  
public realm.'


the article goes on to describe the increasingly sociological  
approach to landscape architecture, and how that entails growing  
tensions between the needs of the public and the vision of the  
designer, between elected municipalities and corporations, between  
process and outcomes...


and then I read this passage, which I thought captured what so many  
of us have been talking about wrt ucd, ucd's nid, clark park, the  
vision of the anointed, citizenship as consumerism, etc.:





[Olin:] "Part of our social obligation is to make places that are
safe and supportive of human activity, and in many cases
are background for other things. Sometimes the people
should be the flowers."

There is no better example of this essentially
sociological approach to design than the renewal of
Bryant Park. Situated in midtown Manhattan behind the New
York Public Library, the four-block courtyard had by 1980
become a crime-ridden vortex of urban abandonment
popularly known as Needle Park.

"It was dangerous," Olin remembers. "It was run-down.
People weren't putting money into it. People were afraid
to go into it. It was deteriorating. People were killed
there."

It is not often that society turns to a landscape
architect in hopes of preventing the murder of its
citizens, but Hanna/Olin's final design helped to turn
one of the city's most frightening places into one of the
safest and most popular. Their approach struck some as
paradoxical. By stripping away the barriers that
protected the park from the bustle of traffic on its
edges, they aimed to turn what had been conceived as a
peaceful respite from urban life into a busy focal point
of it. Forsaking grand gestures and concentrating instead
on tiny details like balustrades and folding chairs, they
refashioned Bryant Park stitch by stitch.

"At first glance, the park looks almost the same, just a
cleaner, fresher version of the old," architecture critic
Paul Goldberger wrote in The New York Times. "But the
cumulative effect of small changes is to render it a
dramatically different place, vastly more open than
before, more tied to the street and the city around it."

Here there was another level of paradox, for Hanna/Olin's
success in restoring the urban qualities of Bryant Park
stemmed from the partial commercialization of what had
previously been purely public space. The redevelopment
had been underwritten by the privately funded Bryant Park
Restoration Corporation, one of the first examples of
what are now commonly known as Business Improvement
Districts. By effectively taking over the municipal
government's responsibility for managing the park, the
BPRC won the privilege to use it as a venue for
entertainment programming, restaurant concessions, and
the like. Hanna/Olin's disciplined design was a critical
piece of this new vision.

"In a sense, it tells you that it's controlled, that it's
not 'true public,'" says George Thomas. "It's sort of
like a mall, or the mall as a public space but under
private control. And as a result, people are expected to
behave in a certain way. You could almost make the case
that Bryant Park is a highly corporatized land

Re: [UC] Break My Routine and Smack Me Upside the Head

[Frank]

I was also shocked to see the planters. Here I was thinking they were  
public urinals.


Frank

On Jul 25, 2007, at 07:27 PM, Ross Bender wrote:

But the photo of the atrocious "brand new planters" comes through  
loud and clear. BTW who ordered those montrosities? They look like  
the scat of the 800-pound gorilla, up and down the avenue.  
Presumably the logic is like that of the US bases in Iraq -- if we  
put em on the ground, it will be very hard for the natives to get  
rid of them. Not only are they extremely ugly and already becoming  
garbage magnets, but as others on this list have observed they are  
very high maintenance -- which presumably is the point.

Re: [UC] Break My Routine and Smack Me Upside the Head

[Frank]

Yeah, but they're still ugly.

Frank

On Jul 25, 2007, at 09:31 PM, Ross Bender wrote:




On 7/25/07, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was also shocked to see the planters. Here I was thinking they  
were public urinals.


Oh. Maybe you're right. If so, then they're certainly serving a  
useful public function.


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

[UC] Crusties

[Frank]

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=15106

The Philadelphia Weekly article on the squatter/hobo scene and the  
recent murder at 49th & Locust is pretty good--and written by an  
intern. While I have a certain amount of empathy for these guys, I  
had to laugh at these ridiculous statements:


He hopped trains to use what he calls “an almost limitless  
resource,” saying most people involved in this culture try to live  
on the margins. “Trying to live free, that’s where train hopping  
really comes from—separating yourself from this consumer aspect of  
travel.”


I think he's confusing "living free" with "living FOR free." Next  
time I dine out I think I'll separate myself from the consumer aspect  
of eating by skipping out on the bill.


The murder of Tim Bradly was particularly shocking to Philly’s  
anarchist punks, Mike says, because “Philadelphia isn’t known for  
being that vicious or violent of a place. It’s a nice little scene  
here—not like New York or San Francisco.”


Yep, that's what Philly's known for these days, non-violence.

Frank

Re: [UC] Break My Routine and Smack Me Upside the Head

[Frank]

Is it just me or does anyone else think bringing children to the  
opening of a business whose main purpose is brewing and selling beer  
is inappropriate in the first place?


Also, does every business that asks for community support need to be  
"family-friendly?"


Frank

On Jul 27, 2007, at 11:13 AM, B Andersen wrote:

Okay, admittedly, I'm feeling crotchity today, but I'm copying the  
announcement that was sent out about the event. It clearly said 21  
and over.


I will dwell on Kyle and his beer no more.

On 2/14/07, CPN Membership <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
THIS IS A LIST MESSAGE - PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL
--
Dear CPN Members,

The proprietors of the upcoming Dock Street Brewery and Restaurant,  
along with the University City District, would like to invite all  
of you to a "Before" Party on Wednesday, February 28th, from 5:30  
to 7:30 pm, at the Firehouse, 701 South 50th Street (see the  
attached flyer).


Many of you pitched in to help support Dock Street in its efforts  
to open at the Firehouse, so come celebrate the beginning of  
construction and get a taste (literally) of what to expect when the  
restaurant opens later this year. "The Illuminator," Dock Street's  
famous double-bock beer, will be served. For this reason, the event  
will be only for neighbors 21 and over.


Hope to see you there,

Cedar Park Neighbors,
http://www.cedarparkneighbors.org


On 7/27/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

In a message dated 7/27/07 10:28:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Now that I've had an opportunity to look at the picture I remember  
what that event was. I'm still frosted that after asking for  
community support to get them in the building, the welcome party  
was tailored only to people who could drink beer at 5 in the  
afternoon ( i.e. not family friendly).


Hope the beer was good ...


Bruce, there were plenty of kids there, and I think there were  
nonalcoholic drinks too.  There was something other than beer; I  
didn't get anything to drink, so I forget what.  I'm not a beer  
drinker, but I enjoyed the event.  They hadn't even begun to turn  
the building into a restaurant, so they had no kitchen and couldn't  
serve much!  It was a standing event, not sit down at tables.  Your  
kids would have been welcome, but it was crowded, so they might not  
have enjoyed it.  And it wasn't only at 5 p.m.; it went on for a  
couple of hours.


Melani

[UC] Re: Dock Street and other eateries [was: Break My Routine and Smack Me Upside the Head]

[Frank]

OK, their food specialty will be pizza. Their party promised beer,  
nothing else.


Frank

On Jul 27, 2007, at 12:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Dock Street's food specialty will be PIZZA.  People of all ages,  
including children, will want to eat there.  It really will be for  
everybody.  Though you have a good point about not everything  
needing to be "family-friendly."  In my business, we have to be  
careful about how we even use the word "family," since it may  
suggest that we are including only, or excluding, other individuals.


Speaking of eateries, I'm still looking for just the right one for  
my 1500 sf commercial space at 4800 Baltimore Ave.  Has anyone on  
the list always had a dream of opening a restaurant?  And it would  
help if you're a good cook, and if you have the resources to build  
a kitchenor maybe you have a friend who'd like to do this?  I  
get phone calls all the time about the space, but many folks want  
to turn it into something that will not be a "lively" (as in Jane  
Jacobs' Death & Life of Great American Cities) use on our Baltimore  
Avenue main streetcontractor's office, studio space, social  
services, day careall commendable endeavors, but we are looking  
for a restaurantemail me off list.

Re: [UC] Listserve Reform of the UC list

[Frank]

I'm with you guys (and Maggie). Besides, meeting in person to discuss  
this stuff defeats the purpose of the list entirely since the list  
itself is a "place" to discuss things. It also immediately excludes  
anyone who can't be at the meeting place at the meeting time. One of  
the points of the listserv is that it's available to and includes  
everyone--everyone with computer access at least. This just seems silly.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.

On Jul 28, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Wilma de Soto wrote:


Hear, hear!

If the name of this new forum is as Al Krigman wrote, that says it  
all.


This is the by-product mentality of people who are used to  
arranging their communities as they see fit, (i.e. suburban-type  
developments with all the amenities in place.) NOW, all we have to  
do is find the “right kind of people” to share in “our little  
corner of Heaven.”


This is a city!  You will find ALL types of people in cities and  
one should not feel threatened when their statements or opinions  
shatter the illusions of how YOU may have thought life and the  
world was like for everybody.


THEN to cap it off hide behind this, “Aren’t I a wonderful person  
because I choose to live in such a diverse community!” façade.
That in particular is galling.


Your post is a very clear and sensible way to approach these lists  
and I thank you.





On 7/28/07 9:43 PM, "David Toccafondi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:


I'm surprised this is such a big deal.  And I'm not sure what  
constitutes "bad traffic" other than outright spam.  I've been  
reading this listserv for at least the past 6 years, and i've  
never seen it as a problem.  I set up a separate email account for  
the lists I subscribe to so that my main account doesn't get  
overwhelmed, and I use Gmail, which does a great job of threading  
the conversations to make everything much easier to keep track  
of.  When my life gets too busy, I just don't read it for a  
while.  If a topic gets posted that I'm not interested in, I  
ignore it.   If someone keeps being obnoxious on the list, I  
ignore the emails from that person. If there's spam (and I really  
haven't been aware of spam on this list), gmail automatically  
filters it into my spam folder or I just delete it.   Yes, there  
are posts which I don't like, but so what?  That's life, isn't! it?


I think it's really useful to have a single place where everyone  
can post.  Having multiple lists ultimately just waters everything  
down and makes it harder for everyone to get a clear and complete  
picture of what's happening in the neighborhood.  Given that  
everyone who reads the list can simply delete or ignore what  
they're not interested in means that there's no reason this list  
can't be different things for different people.  For some people  
it's an opportunity to discuss local politics.  For others, it's a  
place to announce events.  For others, it's a place to complain.   
I thought the idea was that this was essentially an online  
community that reflected the opinions and interests and needs of  
the physical community of West Philadelphia.


dave


On 7/28/07, B Andersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm tired of the bad traffic here on the listserve, and I know  
I'm not the only one. I propose we meet in person to discuss one  
(or more) of five options:


*Develop rules and guidelines (and allow moderation)
*Migrate to psfni
*start an alternate group
*Move to a BB like Phillyblog
*leave things as they are

Re: [UC] Incorrigible list leaders

[Frank]

Have you been out in public in the last few years? This is SOP for  
the majority of the population as far as I'm concerned. This list is  
almost reserved in comparison.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.

On Jul 29, 2007, at 03:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What bothers me is the lack of civility especially common among  
many big posters.  Name calling (including intentional reversal of  
names, use of last names or diminutives as insults, gender based  
attacks, etc), open hostility, personal attacks, etc., are included  
routinely in a lot of posts.

Re: [UC] Listserve Reform of the UC list

[Frank]

Did Kyle actually write that?? I didn't get that message. <*/-<

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


In a message dated 7/27/07 6:49:04 PM, kcassidy at asc.upenn.edu  
writes:

> the cool thing about this software is that i can pre-ban glenn!
>

Re: [UC] Listserve Reform of the UC list

[Frank]

It's right here:

http://lists.asc.upenn.edu/pipermail/ucneighbors/2007-July/05.html

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Jul 29, 2007, at 07:12 PM, Brian Siano wrote:


Wilma de Soto wrote:

Dear Brian,

This has nothing to do with Glenn, rather from what I have read of  
the posts
I have seen on Kyle's list, the upenn sig in the URL and from  
reading past

postings on this listserv.

I read, "The great thing about this software is that I can pre-ban  
Glenn"

and the response of how that would be heaven.


Please provide the post where Kyle wrote this.

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Re: [UC] Listserve Reform of the UC list

[Frank]

Here is the Whois info for purple.com with the business and technical  
contacts via Network Solutions. Sorry if this info is late or  
redundant. I'm in Atlanta at the moment.


domain: PURPLE.COM
owner-name: purple
owner-address:  4411 Pine Street 19104
owner-address:  19104
owner-address:  Philadelphia
owner-address:  Pennsylvania
owner-address:  United States of America
admin-c:JA363-GANDI
tech-c: RP707-GANDI
bill-c: JA363-GANDI
nserver:ftp.ee.vill.edu 153.104.63.227
nserver:ns1.misty.com 198.137.254.5
reg_created:1994-08-31 00:00:00
expires:2008-08-30 04:00:00
created:2003-08-15 18:55:23
changed:2007-06-30 14:31:57

person: Jeff Abrahamson
nic-hdl:JA363-GANDI
address:4411 Pine Street
address:19104
address:Philadelphia
address:Pennsylvania
address:United States of America
phone:  +1 2156621712
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
lastupdated:2006-12-15 16:16:09

person: Rick Perry
nic-hdl:RP707-GANDI
address:RP Consulting
address:3301 Highland Ave.
address:19026-1426
address:Drexel Hill
address:Pennsylvania
address:United States of America
phone:  +11.6102598734
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
lastupdated:2007-02-19 10:12:32

On Jul 29, 2007, at 07:20 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:



S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> Yeah...I have told the story too many times.
> Check the archives.
>
> But no institutional affiliation.
>
> But this is my favorite link:
>
> http://www.purple.com/money/donate.html
>
>
> I am surprised you have never read the purple pages?
>
> S
>
>

If I may Actually, there is institutional affiliation: Villanova!

For some context, there are two things you need to know about any  
computer on the Internet:


1. who hold the DNS records for that domain
2. where is the IP address of the server located? (what ISP?)


Only large institutions (penn, apple, comcast) 'own' the blocks of  
IP addresses that each computer must have to participate on the  
Internet. When you pay one of these people to host your server,  
they lend you an IP address. You then map a name (list.purple.com)  
to that particular ip address, and then people can use your server.


People don't find it easy to type in numbers like 153.104.63.228  
all the time, so other smart people invented DNS (the Domain Name  
system). Almost every IP address has a DNS name mapped to it to  
make it easy for people to use.


So using DNS, we can address things like email to list.purple.com  
(which is a particular computer) instead of it's IP address, which  
is 153.104.63.228. Both those point to the same thing.



So, to answer #1, it looks like Villanova holds the DNS records for  
purple. So it is safe to say that there _is_ an institutional  
affiliation for purple.


Here is the record for it's DNS:

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;purple.com.IN  A

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
purple.com. 6716IN  SOA  
ftp.ece.villanova.edu. root.ftp.ece.villanova.edu. 2006061100 43200  
14400 360 259200


;; Query time: 10 msec
;; SERVER: 207.245.82.2#53(207.245.82.2)
;; WHEN: Sun Jul 29 19:08:36 2007



And here is a GEO lookup for the actual list.purple.com computer:

The IP 153.104.63.228 is located in:
Country:United States (US)
Region: PA
City:   Villanova
Latitude:   40.0369
Longitude:  -75.3486

(http://www.websitegoodies.com/tools/geoip.php)




So, there you are.


-andy






-andy diller


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Re: [UC] Listserve Reform of the UC list

[Frank]

That's a good one!

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy.* Infinitely flexible.

*Soon-to-be-ivy-covered bells.

On Jul 29, 2007, at 08:24 PM, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote:


Frank wrote:

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.




hahaha


signed,

Raydian
enhanced vibrancy. first class design.











































































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Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list

[Frank]

Then why did you bait the list members by asking what kind of  
influence Penn/Villanova had over the two listservs by feigning  
ignorance?


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.

On Jul 29, 2007, at 08:17 PM, Anthony West wrote:

When universities actually seek to control internet information,  
you will find their internet trail all too easy to trace. I speak  
as one who once worked in university PR. Universities are all about  
labeling, publishing, controlling and crediting. If there were any  
substantial drive by Penn to control a listserve, you would soon  
read it in its contents. But you won't figure it out by the addie.  
Universities are capable of many bad deeds, but they are almost  
constitutionally incapable of being sneaky in the true sense of the  
word. They are too beholden to their internal networks of  
information release and approval.



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Re: [UC] Since the real reason for the new list is...

[Frank]

The market does not dictate quality. If that were true, Titanic would  
be the best film ever made and American Midol would be a showcase for  
good singers.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Mike VanHelder wrote:


OK, so the opposition to UCD and the BID I get, Al.  Your motives are
ulterior, but understandable.  But why all of the fear and derision of
the new list?  The market dictates demand, right?

- Mike V.

On 7/30/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



The [EMAIL PROTECTED] sneering committee met at the  
Red Light
District outdoor cafe last night. of course, I wasn't invited, but  
the I had

somebody up in a tree posing as a woodpecker and taking notes.

The real reason for starting a new list, all devotees of deliberative
democracy will be happy to hear, is not to exclude Glenn,  
eliminate people
who Phil Forrest claims "spew filth," or engage in what Brian  
Siano judges
to be "mean-spirited rants." It's what the technocrats would call  
"enhancing
the signal-to-noise ratio" by cutting down on repetition and on  
topics
particular individuals don't care about (like UCD or the NID,  
whether Penn
is a 750- or 900-lb gorilla, or at which Green Line the gang will  
assemble
before walking over to the University City Chamber Ensemble and  
String Band
Concert at the First Crustacean Church). This will leave the  
bandwidth (and

participants email in-boxes) free for topics in which they're really
interested.

So, to carry this idea even further, while avoiding some of the  
nasty and
wholly-fabricated accusations of elitism, discrimination, social  
injustice,

know-nothingism, etc that have been circulating, the new
sweetbarkingcheese.com list has been subdivided so people can join  
just
those segments in which they're interested. There will be a  
comment period
during which people (except, of course, for Glenn, who's been  
banned by
Kyle) can make suggestions before the actual menu of lists is  
launched.

Proposals so far -- and they're meant to be self-explanatory -- are:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.


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Re: [UC] I've Created a New (Moderated) University City Mailing List

[Frank]

Sure there is. He, himself said he would immediately ban Glenn.

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.

On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:57 AM, Mike VanHelder wrote:


While I'm more than happy to shake my fist at the forces of oppressive
censorship, Sharrieff, I don't know that it's fair to accuse Kyle of
doing that before there's any evidence that he's actually doing that.

- Mike V.

On 7/28/07, S. Sharrieff Ali <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





Kyle:



While Ross created the Culture listserv, he did not unsubscribe  
from the

UC-List.



There are multiple listservs which have popped up over the last  
couple of

years to allow

people to privately (in many cases) discuss what is happening on the
UC-Listserv!



I think your reasons for creating a randomly-moderated listsev  
sound like

sour grapes and

an attempt to sensor selected neighbors post.



Again, people need to self-police and be more considerate.





S









-Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
 Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 11:02 AM
 To: UnivCity listserv
 Subject: [UC] I've Created a New (Moderated) University City  
Mailing List





I was hoping to have a few weeks to run tests, but it seems things  
have

boiled over here.

 The UnivCity listserve has, for me, become less than useless over  
the past
six months. I find it valuable for neighbors to be able to share  
stories of
what's going on in the hood, to plan meetups, and to help one  
another out
which used to happen here when I first signed up. Lately, all I've  
seen here
are vituperative rants and conspiracy theories from the same five  
people
which then inspire the same five other people to fight back which  
just makes
a lot of noise that nobody but those ten people are reading. And  
in this
multi-dozen-message bag of bile we are left to pick out the five  
useful
posts about crime trends in the area and the obituary of a  
neighborhood

friend.

 So, rather than try and reform a football game that's not mine, I've
created an entirely new one that's been running in test mode for a  
few days

with a handful of volunteers. You can sign up for it here:

  http://lists.asc.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/ucneighbors

 The list is lightly moderated which means, hopefully,  
significantly less

ranting and cranky behavior.

 I'm going to unsubscribe from univcity and hope to see some of  
you on the
other side where I hope to be able to provide a less antagonistic  
atmosphere

for neighborhood communication.

 kc


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Re: [UC] Since the real reason for the new list is...

[Frank]

But those people are the ones on the new list! So they've gone  
somewhere they CAN dictate the conversation.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible

On Jul 30, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Mario Giorno wrote:

It's also becoming a crowded room (virtually speaking) with some  
loud voices trying to drown out the once speaking in a normal tone.  
Some people do act like they own this list and like to think that  
they can dictate and frame the conversation and debates that occur  
here.

Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list

[Frank]

You go, Wilma!!

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible

On Jul 30, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Wilma de Soto wrote:

I don’t think Penn is sponsoring the group.  What I meant is they  
are the owner of the domain in which gives them a certain  
responsibility for its content, doesn’t it.


As for your second point about group credibility, it is rather the  
appearance of credibility.  That is to say, if I was looking for a  
listserv forum i this area and I ran across the UC Neighbors and  
saw upenn.edu in its address, I would probably think if I didn’t  
know better that this Neighbors listserv is affiliated with the  
university because it is under their domain.


If I see a forum under cbsnews.com, or citibank.com or harvard.edu,  
I would most likely assume these would under their domains and  
subject to all regulations therein.


Would one be wrong to assume that if one didn’t know the whole story?

To specifically answer your question, “Would your words, or mine,  
or anyone else's really become more credible because they were  
posted on a discussion group that happened to be on a UPenn server? “


My answer would be no.  I have advance information as to the nature  
of the group, how it was formed etc., but many others would not and  
that makes a difference.


Wilma

On 7/30/07 10:12 AM, "Dave Axler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Wilma,

The answer to your first question can only come from Kyle, not me.

However, I have used discussion groups based at both Yahoo and  
MySpace, and can state from experience that they do have  
disadvantages: Most notably, there are too many advertisements,  
both on the listserv/group pages themselves, and in email one  
receives as a side effect of joining the group. Yahoo is  
especially notorious for the latter -- one has to locate the  
special "preferences" page and manually opt out of receiving such  
mail. I suspect, but don't know for certain, that Google-based  
groups also involve advertisements.


As for the second question, I think it is based on two false  
assumptions:

1) Penn is "sponsoring" the new group.
Providing host services is not sponsorship, regardless of  
whether the group is hosted on Penn's servers, or Yahoo's, or  
Google's, or an old Mac 8100 sitting in somebody's basement. To  
claim otherwise is analogous to holding the phone company  
responsible for what people say when they make calls.

2) A group hosted by Penn is more credible than one hosted elsewhere.
   I don't think groups as a whole are "credible". What matters to  
me is the credibility of individual posters based on what they say  
and how well those statements agree with my own knowledge and  
understanding of the world. Would your words, or mine, or anyone  
else's really become more credible because they were posted on a  
discussion group that happened to be on a UPenn server? I don't  
think anyone here -- including those with whom I sometimes  
disagree -- is that foolish and/or gullible, and I don't think new  
neighbors would be, either.


--dave

-Original Message-
From: Wilma de Soto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Dave Axler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity listserv  


Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 7:21 am
Subject: Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list

True enough.  If I could set up a listserv on any of the servers  
mentioned (Google, MySpace, Yahoo) by you and Andy, why didn’t Kyle?


Having a “community listserv’ with a upenn sponsored URL would  
lend more weight and credibility than one set up at purple.com or  
yahoo or myspace, wouldn’t it?


I were a new resident to University City and wanted to go online  
with neighbors, I certainly would think so.



On 7/30/07 1:36 AM, "Dave Axler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Yep, and you can get similar free services from Yahoo, AOL,  
MySpace, and a variety of other places.
The exact features vary from host to host -- some let you make  
files and/or pictures available, some
offer public calendar features for group events, all have some  
variations on how the messages are
moderated (if at all) -- but the location of an ISP is, for a  
discussion list, generally not a sign of who

"owns" and/or "controls" it.


-Original Message-
From: Andrew Diller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Wilma de Soto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Anthony West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; UnivCity listserv  


Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 8:08 pm
Subject: Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list

You can pretty much do it yourself, for free at Google. Google  
calls listservs "groups."


http://groups.google.com/


-andy diller

Wilma de Soto wrote:
> I see.  How much is Kyle having to pay Penn to get them to host  
his server

> and lend him an IP address?
> > Would I be able to do the same if I pay them to host a server  
for me and

> loan me an IP address?  Who gets to do this?  Must one be directly
> affiliated with the University or have someone who IS  
affiliated do it for

> you?
> > > On 7/29/07 7:32 PM, "Anthony West"  
<[EMAIL

Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list

[Frank]

It's called "purple" because it's a separate domain, Villanova is  
only hosting it. But you already know that, don't you?


My domain is hosted cruisingforsex.com servers which, in turn, sit in  
a server farm owned by yet another domain. Neither of them is  
"responsible" for my content but, if I were doing something  
interesting to law enforcement, you can bet they'd both be contacted  
and my domain could easily be removed.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible

On Jul 30, 2007, at 12:39 PM, Anthony West wrote:


Wilma,

I don't know. Is Villanova responsible for our content, right now,  
on UC-list?


Your second point does make some sense to me. But how to control  
it? Large universities are mare's nests of email accounts and  
websites. You can find some pretty bizarre pages on some of them.


Maybe Kyle's listserve should include some sort of standard  
disclaimer of university affiliation for walk-ins. Or maybe 


While we're on it, how did UC-list come to be called "purple"  
instead of "villanova"?


-- Tony West

I don’t think Penn is sponsoring the group.  What I meant is they  
are the owner of the domain in which gives them a certain  
responsibility for its content, doesn’t it.


As for your second point about group credibility, it is rather the  
appearance of credibility.  That is to say, if I was looking for a  
listserv forum i this area and I ran across the UC Neighbors and  
saw upenn.edu in its address, I would probably think if I didn’t  
know better that this Neighbors listserv is affiliated with the  
university because it is under their domain.


If I see a forum under cbsnews.com, or citibank.com or  
harvard.edu, I would most likely assume these would under their  
domains and subject to all regulations therein.


Wilma

Re: [UC] I've Created a New (Moderated) University City Mailing List

[Frank]

Sure it is. Any member of this list can turn Glenn off individually  
with mail filters or the Delete key. That can't be done with someone  
hollering in public or in a bar or in a City Council meeting. The  
situations are not the same.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Jul 30, 2007, at 02:16 PM, Mike V. wrote:

And I maintain, again, that that's not censorship any more than  
ejecting
the hollering "THE END IS NEAR!  REPENT! REPENT!" guy from city  
council

meetins is censorship.

- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 2:08 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] I've Created a New (Moderated) University City  
Mailing

List


Sure there is. He, himself said he would immediately ban Glenn.

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.

On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:57 AM, Mike VanHelder wrote:

While I'm more than happy to shake my fist at the forces of  
oppressive



censorship, Sharrieff, I don't know that it's fair to accuse Kyle of
doing that before there's any evidence that he's actually doing that.

- Mike V.

On 7/28/07, S. Sharrieff Ali <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





Kyle:



While Ross created the Culture listserv, he did not unsubscribe
from the
UC-List.



There are multiple listservs which have popped up over the last
couple of
years to allow

people to privately (in many cases) discuss what is happening on the
UC-Listserv!



I think your reasons for creating a randomly-moderated listsev
sound like
sour grapes and

an attempt to sensor selected neighbors post.



Again, people need to self-police and be more considerate.





S









-Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
 Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 11:02 AM
 To: UnivCity listserv
 Subject: [UC] I've Created a New (Moderated) University City
Mailing List




I was hoping to have a few weeks to run tests, but it seems things
have
boiled over here.

 The UnivCity listserve has, for me, become less than useless over
the past
six months. I find it valuable for neighbors to be able to share
stories of
what's going on in the hood, to plan meetups, and to help one
another out
which used to happen here when I first signed up. Lately, all I've
seen here
are vituperative rants and conspiracy theories from the same five
people
which then inspire the same five other people to fight back which
just makes
a lot of noise that nobody but those ten people are reading. And
in this
multi-dozen-message bag of bile we are left to pick out the five
useful
posts about crime trends in the area and the obituary of a
neighborhood
friend.

 So, rather than try and reform a football game that's not mine,  
I've



created an entirely new one that's been running in test mode for a
few days
with a handful of volunteers. You can sign up for it here:

  http://lists.asc.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/ucneighbors

 The list is lightly moderated which means, hopefully,
significantly less
ranting and cranky behavior.

 I'm going to unsubscribe from univcity and hope to see some of
you on the
other side where I hope to be able to provide a less antagonistic
atmosphere
for neighborhood communication.

 kc


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Re: [UC] Since the real reason for the new list is...

[Frank]

As far as quality is concerned, I don't have much faith in a list  
whose members discuss banning someone on their FIRST DAY!


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Jul 30, 2007, at 02:17 PM, Mike V. wrote:


You're absolutely right.  But quality is subjective and, in this case,
as-yet-undetermined.  I was just talking about strict demand.

- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 2:06 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Since the real reason for the new list is...


The market does not dictate quality. If that were true, Titanic would
be the best film ever made and American Midol would be a showcase for
good singers.

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Mike VanHelder wrote:


OK, so the opposition to UCD and the BID I get, Al.  Your motives are
ulterior, but understandable.  But why all of the fear and  
derision of



the new list?  The market dictates demand, right?

- Mike V.

On 7/30/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



The [EMAIL PROTECTED] sneering committee met at the
Red Light
District outdoor cafe last night. of course, I wasn't invited, but
the I had
somebody up in a tree posing as a woodpecker and taking notes.

The real reason for starting a new list, all devotees of  
deliberative



democracy will be happy to hear, is not to exclude Glenn,
eliminate people
who Phil Forrest claims "spew filth," or engage in what Brian
Siano judges
to be "mean-spirited rants." It's what the technocrats would call
"enhancing
the signal-to-noise ratio" by cutting down on repetition and on
topics
particular individuals don't care about (like UCD or the NID,
whether Penn
is a 750- or 900-lb gorilla, or at which Green Line the gang will
assemble
before walking over to the University City Chamber Ensemble and
String Band
Concert at the First Crustacean Church). This will leave the
bandwidth (and
participants email in-boxes) free for topics in which they're really
interested.

So, to carry this idea even further, while avoiding some of the
nasty and
wholly-fabricated accusations of elitism, discrimination, social
injustice,
know-nothingism, etc that have been circulating, the new
sweetbarkingcheese.com list has been subdivided so people can join
just
those segments in which they're interested. There will be a
comment period
during which people (except, of course, for Glenn, who's been
banned by
Kyle) can make suggestions before the actual menu of lists is
launched.
Proposals so far -- and they're meant to be self-explanatory -- are:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman



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Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list

[Frank]

Fraid so, Ross.

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible

On Jul 30, 2007, at 02:49 PM, Ross Bender wrote:




On 7/30/07, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It's called "purple" because it's a separate domain, Villanova is  
only hosting it. But you already know that, don't you?


My domain is hosted cruisingforsex.com servers which, in turn, sit  
in a server farm owned by yet another domain. Neither of them is  
"responsible" for my content but, if I were doing something  
interesting to law enforcement, you can bet they'd both be  
contacted and my domain could easily be removed.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible

Holy crap, Frankus. You are the people my parents warned me against.


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] RE: I Respectfully Decline [Was: JOIN UC NEIGHBORS FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION

[Frank]

I'll answer that as well.

Yes, an uncontrolled list is superior to a list in which ONE PERSON  
decides what behavior is acceptable. It's also superior to a list in  
which that decision is somehow arrived at...well, I'm not sure how  
they're going to do it. Are you?


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Jul 30, 2007, at 08:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I take this that you don't credit my views, and those who agree  
with them, that it really is the behavior and not the content.  Of  
course, it's difficult to define civility, but apparently most of  
us agree we can know it when we see it.  My question for you is, do  
you indeed stand in support of the uncontrolled list, viewing the  
poor conduct you agree has occurred as intractable or superior to  
the possibility that people will be restricted in some fashion is  
they can't act properly?


You certainly have strong views on some things, and are grounded in  
actual involvement.  If everyone made up a list of people who are  
jerks on the list, I don't think you'd show up.  You say your piece  
without being uncivil.
I don't think anyone would ban you, me or Wilma from a list for  
being anti-social, regardless of what we had to say.


Paul



-Original Message-
From: KAREN ALLEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 2:44 pm
Subject: [UC] RE: I Respectfully Decline [Was: JOIN UC NEIGHBORS  
FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION]


I have to respectfully decline joining this list for a number of  
reasons, but my primary one is this:
While Melani claims that there would be "civilized" conversation,  
what I fear it will actually be is "sanitized" conversation.


While it's true that many unpleasant things get said on this list,  
that has been a two-way street. The people claiming to be victims  
give as good as they get, and just as often send inflammatory posts  
themselves: remember "Serial Liar sends misleading information"?  
How about "cheap", "greedy", "slumlords", "Napoleon complex"  
"frugal" "fanatic"? A poster in this current thread, Phillip  
Forrest, sent an ugly post that suggested that, rather than his own  
use of the delete key, Glenn should kill himself, but somehow that  
was not viewed as being part of the problem. Isn't sending  
information as a front for UCD just as "misleading"? Couldn't the  
organized effort to enact the BID with carefully planted  
information be just as easily labeled a "conspiracy"?


What I see as a problem is how will "uncivilized" be defined on the  
new list. To me it seems that much of what is being claimed is  
uncivilized is often a disagreement with the ideas being expressed.  
I make no secret of the fact that I don't agree with the BID or  
with what I view as Penn and its supporters having an undue hand in  
the direction of this neighborhood. That is an unpopular view among  
those who want Penn's involvement or who make huge business profits  
because of it. I have not been attacked on the listserv for my  
opinoins, but I have already been shunned in person for taking that  
stance.


My question is this: What is meant by "cilvilized" an  
"uncivilized"? Is this REALLY a concern about the tone, or is there  
also a concern about the ideas expressed? Would I be banned for  
posting things critical of UCD? Or for defending John Fenton (the  
post-Malcolm X Park John Fenton, not the pre-Malcolm X Park John  
Fenton). Or will the new list be a forum wherein like-minded people  
can get together and make unchallenged claiims? Would Phillip  
Forrest's ugly suggestion that Glenn kill himself get Phillip banned?


Karen Allen

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UnivCity@list.purple.com
>Subject: JOIN UC NEIGHBORS FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION Re: [UC]  
Since the >real reason for the new list is...

>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:28:22 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 7/30/07 11:45:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >  ..Kyle didn't start the UCNeighbor list because he was  
being
> > childish or selfish and walking away with his bat and ball. He  
started >it because
> > the communication on this listserv is becoming petty, myopic  
and >insulting.
> > It's also becoming a crowded room (virtually speaking) with  
some loud >voices
> > trying to drown out the once speaking in a normal tone. Some  
people do >act
> > like they own this list and like to think that they can dictate  
and >frame the
> > conversation and debates that occur here. Many people have  
started doing >the
> > serial deleting of [UC]-labelled emails, because it's become  
less >relevant and
> > helpful to the average UC resident. I don't know about you, but  
this >puts
> > people a hair-trigger away from leaving the listserv and the  
community
> > discussion that occurs here. No one is excluded or protected on  
Kyle's >new listserv
> > either. You can still take the conversation there, if you want  
to, and >your bat

> > and ball.
> >
> 

[UC] CORRECTION about my domain

[Frank]

I do not own cruisingforsex.com. My domain resides on their servers.

My post read:
My domain is hosted cruisingforsex.com servers which, in turn, sit in  
a server farm owned by yet another domain.


It should have read:
My domain is hosted ON cruisingforsex.com servers which, in turn, sit  
in a server farm owned by yet another domain.


The owner of cruisingforsex.com is a good friend of mine in whose  
Atlanta apartment I now sit while he's on vacation. I designed his  
site but I don't own it. He offered to host my site for free.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infintely flexible.

Re: [UC] Incontinence or the superiority of an uncontrolled list

[Frank]

People are only intimidated if they choose to be, in my opinion.

I never said the individual was supreme. I'm against giving an  
individual so much power that he either controls the list or needs to  
be removed from it. I'm for equality.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infintely flexible.


On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:49 PM, Joe Clarke wrote:

The individual is supreme - except when he controls the list?   The  
so-called uncontrolled list ends up being controlled through  
intimidation and other power or agressive
behavior.  The right wing demagogues declare that their discourse  
is an open uncontrolled dust up, where the average guy can get his  
two cents in.  If you call in with a contrary
opinion, you are edited out.  I'm not sure about the Left:  I think  
that they control the discourse with the proliferation of sacred  
cows, which circumscribe what you can discuss or criticize and  
still be considered "one of us".

Joe C.

Frank wrote:

I'll answer that as well.

Yes, an uncontrolled list is superior to a list in which ONE  
PERSON decides what behavior is acceptable. It's also superior to  
a list in which that decision is somehow arrived at...well, I'm  
not sure how they're going to do it. Are you?

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.




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Re: [UC] RE: I Respectfully Decline [Was: JOIN UC NEIGHBORS FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION

[Frank]

Wow. This is really interesting to me. Can you explain the behavior  
that leads you to say this? You can email me privately if you'd rather.


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infintely flexible.


On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:55 PM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:

except that my criticism of UCD has caused me to become an  
"untouchable", if you will, among its supporters.



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] Since the real reason for the new list is...

[Frank]

Perfectly said. Thanks.

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.

On Jul 31, 2007, at 12:54 AM, Elizabeth F Campion wrote:

Personally I favor civility, but accept 'delete' when incivility  
rankles.

Re: [UC] RE: I Respectfully Decline [Was: JOIN UC NEIGHBORS FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION

[Frank]

I've been on a lot of mailing lists over the years, moderated and  
not, some with thousands of members, and that majority have always  
been lurkers. There are a couple of dozen daily/almost daily  
contributors and a few more dozen people who rarely post. The rest  
are silent. That's the nature of mailing lists, I think.


Frank

On Jul 31, 2007, at 08:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

No, I'm not sure Frankus.  I am confident, however, that this list  
will not do anything to try to get members to follow any standards,  
or to get the vast majority of those who are silent members to  
contribute.


Paul


-Original Message-----
From: Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 9:30 pm
Subject: Re: [UC] RE: I Respectfully Decline [Was: JOIN UC  
NEIGHBORS FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION


I'll answer that as well.

Yes, an uncontrolled list is superior to a list in which ONE PERSON  
decides what behavior is acceptable. It's also superior to a list  
in which that decision is somehow arrived at...well, I'm not sure  
how they're going to do it. Are you?


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Jul 30, 2007, at 08:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I take this that you don't credit my views, and those who agree  
with them, that it really is the behavior and not the content.  Of  
course, it's difficult to define civility, but apparently most of  
us agree we can know it when we see it.  My question for you is,  
do you indeed stand in support of the uncontrolled list, viewing  
the poor conduct you agree has occurred as intractable or superior  
to the possibility that people will be restricted in some fashion  
is they can't act properly?


You certainly have strong views on some things, and are grounded  
in actual involvement.  If everyone made up a list of people who  
are jerks on the list, I don't think you'd show up.  You say your  
piece without being uncivil.
I don't think anyone would ban you, me or Wilma from a list for  
being anti-social, regardless of what we had to say.


Paul



-Original Message-
From: KAREN ALLEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 2:44 pm
Subject: [UC] RE: I Respectfully Decline [Was: JOIN UC NEIGHBORS  
FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION]


I have to respectfully decline joining this list for a number of  
reasons, but my primary one is this:
While Melani claims that there would be "civilized" conversation,  
what I fear it will actually be is "sanitized" conversation.


While it's true that many unpleasant things get said on this list,  
that has been a two-way street. The people claiming to be victims  
give as good as they get, and just as often send inflammatory  
posts themselves: remember "Serial Liar sends misleading  
information"? How about "cheap", "greedy", "slumlords", "Napoleon  
complex" "frugal" "fanatic"? A poster in this current thread,  
Phillip Forrest, sent an ugly post that suggested that, rather  
than his own use of the delete key, Glenn should kill himself, but  
somehow that was not viewed as being part of the problem. Isn't  
sending information as a front for UCD just as "misleading"?  
Couldn't the organized effort to enact the BID with carefully  
planted information be just as easily labeled a "conspiracy"?


What I see as a problem is how will "uncivilized" be defined on  
the new list. To me it seems that much of what is being claimed is  
uncivilized is often a disagreement with the ideas being  
expressed. I make no secret of the fact that I don't agree with  
the BID or with what I view as Penn and its supporters having an  
undue hand in the direction of this neighborhood. That is an  
unpopular view among those who want Penn's involvement or who make  
huge business profits because of it. I have not been attacked on  
the listserv for my opinoins, but I have already been shunned in  
person for taking that stance.


My question is this: What is meant by "cilvilized" an  
"uncivilized"? Is this REALLY a concern about the tone, or is  
there also a concern about the ideas expressed? Would I be banned  
for posting things critical of UCD? Or for defending John Fenton  
(the post-Malcolm X Park John Fenton, not the pre-Malcolm X Park  
John Fenton). Or will the new list be a forum wherein like-minded  
people can get together and make unchallenged claiims? Would  
Phillip Forrest's ugly suggestion that Glenn kill himself get  
Phillip banned?


Karen Allen

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], UnivCity@list.purple.com
>Subject: JOIN UC NEIGHBORS FOR CIVILIZED CONVERSATION Re: [UC]  
Since the >real reason for the new list is...

>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:28:22

[UC] The Clucking Finger: Juicy bits from the "neighbors"

[Frank]

it's such a nearly non-existent slice of this neighborhood. 370  
people. at least all the cranks are isolated.


one of the things that your stats keeping did, i think, was keep  
certain people from talking too much lest they enter the top 10. with  
your statswork gone -- i think noise exploded on the list because  
there was no clucking finger.


right now the list is set to everybody unmoderated. the software  
allows for the moderation of all posts or posts by particular users.  
we'll play it by ear, but we can also have moderators shut down any  
threads that get too heated, or shut down the whole list for a period  
of time if necessary. i doubt it will be necessary though. most of  
the acrimony on the univcity list came from a pool of about six  
people, and not allowing trolls would have nipped so many of that  
unpleasantness in the bud.


i can also pick words at random and not allow posts that contain  
those words. sort of like the duck coming down and giving you $!00,  
but the other way around.


they'll get over it. in six months nobody will remember. everybody  
will be fine.


kc


The whole idea of setting up a  new list is flipping several people  
out. In fact, they have even posted some purported messages from this  
list.


Paul


Yeah, it is actually the best thread I've seen in a while... "[UC]   
Listserve Reform of the UC list" -- its cracking me up.


-andy


Not worrying about the Old List -- that's the easy part. The hard  
part is saying interesting things to each other on the New List, that  
are exclusives.


-- Tony West

Re: [UC] My Role with the List Serve

[Frank]

Or this:

The use of University computer resources for private business or  
commercial activities (except where such activities are otherwise  
permitted or authorized under applicable University policies),  
fundraising or advertising on behalf of non-University  
organizations...are prohibited.


The following activities and behaviors are prohibited:
Making University computing resources available to individuals not  
affiliated with the University of Pennsylvania without approval of an  
authorized University official;
Intentionally infringing upon the intellectual property rights of  
others in computer programs or electronic information (including  
plagiarism and unauthorized use or reproduction).


It's all here:
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/osl/electron.html

So...don't promote your business; don't tell anyone to give to a  
charitable organization, including FOCP, etc., or attend their  
activities; only Penn employees will be allowed to moderate the list;  
and there will be no excerpts from other publications.


Interesting. It looks like someone didn't do their homework.

Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Aug 2, 2007, at 11:45 AM, Glenn wrote:


Respect for the principles of open expression

Truthfulness and honesty in personal and computer identification;


Wilma,

I deleted Winkler from this reply because he is a barking cheese now.

Someone forwarded the links to the Penn policy on use of electronic  
resources.  Cloaking the censorship policy of  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] as well as pre banning a "Resident Of  
University City" as Penn is now calling barking cheese, would  
appear to violate the highest core principals of Penn's stated policy.


You are right on target with the criticisms you've shared with me.

Glenn

- Original Message -
From: Wilma de Soto
To: FX Winkler ; Glenn ; Jonathan Herrmann ; UnivCity listserv
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [UC] My Role with the List Serve

This is from a post of mine on July 29, 2007:

“Let’s add to that the active recruiting of new members and/or  
diverting existing members to the new listserv, because the UC  
listserv has a bunch of, fill in the blank: crazies, cranks,  
belligerent non-viable entities with whom you would NEVER want to  
communicate and the sort of people who are just the fringe elements  
and not indicative of the wants of the “real community.”  or:


“Come to our listserv.  You’ll like it much better! You don’t want  
to join the UC listserv because”



Well... I hate to say I told you so.



On 8/2/07 9:44 AM, "FX Winkler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Soon it will be very quiet because the only ones left will be the  
loonies.


Glenn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Subject: [UC] My Role with the List Serve





All (particularly Glenn Moyer):



Thanks for your reply Jon.

As with Andrew Zitcer’s opinion piece in a citywide paper, you  
should have disclosed your close relationship with Penn power  
brokers and leadership of Campus Philly before I did it for you,  
and others did for Andrew on this list. I know you but there are  
other individuals, who are in fact caught up with some very  
distressing Penn initiatives.  I don’t think badly of you nor do I  
have any reason to believe your participation was anything but a  
mistake.  I simply disclosed your connections and the timing in  
this very serious matter. Please consider this a good-natured  
reprimand.


The issue is not about a lost kitty in the neighborhood so your  
disclosure was  very important.


You are not a known regular on the list. You came onto a  
neighborhood listserv with complaints about this open list, which  
serves as a serious medium for communication in this neighborhood.  
Common individuals have limited opportunities to freely communicate  
their ideas unlike Campus Philly or Penn.


In recent news accounts, this list sticks out as being so important  
that the discussions are referenced. Some questionable characters  
with close ties to the UCD assert that discussions about topics  
like lost kitties must be the only topics here. Those posts are  
important too.  But I've noticed that any discussion of serious  
issues that might be important to all community residents are  
labeled as "noise" when the "wrong" viewpoints or questions are asked.


At a time when a gang of list bullies is pretending that incivility  
here is driving them to censorship, you joined in support of the  
effort without offering disclosure. If you had been reading the  
list, you would have known that Mr. Cassidy and the small chorus of  
advocates for censorship on a Penn marketed site are indeed the  
core of a group of individuals who engage in group listserv bullying.


They do the bullying against those who speak against some Penn  
policies and the incivility of their mates engaging in the listserv  
bullying. I can show you a powerful example when a couple of those  
whom would be banned stood up against truly disturbi