Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Chipp Walters]

On 6/8/07, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Request submitted for your voting pleasue:




My comments applied to the enhancement request:

"I vote against this...(Can I add negative votes?). This functionality can
easily be had via a plugin someone can write in 10 minutes. I think you'll
create more problems (firewall issues, proxy servers, socket timeouts, etc..)
than the lone problem of a single disgruntled poster."
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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Chipp Walters]

On 6/8/07, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



But even without a formal open source process, Kevin has said that if
someone makes a patcher for the IDE which applies any such changes, they
  could easily run it to evaluate them and would consider including them.



Yep. Sarah and I can attest to that. Imagine my surprise when digging
through some IDE code to find the comment "Patched by Chipp Walters" and
"Patched by Sarah Reichelt" !!

If you write a patcher for the IDE, send it along to Rev. Also, it's always
wise to be able to UNINSTALL the patch as well.

If at all possible, consider writing a plugin instead of a patch. I wrote
the altCopyPasteFix plugin for  Rev 2.8 which was then not needed for 2.8.1,
so I only had to remove it from my toolbar.
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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[Chipp Walters]

On 6/8/07, Scott Kane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


www.torry.net

Here's a summary of what the site holds in terms of source code, products
etc:

Authors total:  4179
Products total:  8703
Files total:  10330




Wow! That guy's the definition of prolific. Wonder when he sleeps?
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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Judy Perry]

Probably only if he were wearing just the *right* pin-striped shirt ;-)

Judy

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Scott Kane wrote:
> > BTW - I just noticed I wrote in the subject line "HUG" and not "HIG".
> > Right now I certainly would not be "HUG" ing my users though "HIG" ing
> > them sounds interesting.  
>
> Maybe if you hugged them, they'd leave you alone. ;)

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Re: WAR ON BUGS [WAS Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev, would do this?)]

[Bob Warren]

Thanks Jacque!  :-*

Bob
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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Bob Warren]

Richard Gaskin wrote: 
So if RunRev added an "Automatically Check for Updates" feature to 
compliment the the existing "Check for Updates" menu item, these sorts 
of threads would go away?   :)  


Bob Warren wrote:

They would, they would!


Richard Gaskin wrote:

Request submitted for your voting pleasue:


---
Uba! Uba!
So I might get my little dancing icon?
I can now sleep soundly at night with that little icon in my mind's eye?

Seriously, much obliged Richard. You ain't such a bad bloke (for Americans and others, that's typical English understatement)  :-) 


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Re: Curious QT playback problem

[J. Landman Gay]

Devin Asay wrote:

Jacque,

You said the user has QT Pro, right? That means she can save movies from 
the QT player. Is it possible that she has opened and saved the movies 
after having played them to the end? So that the "currentTime" is in 
effect saved with the movie. Would that then cause the movie to open at 
the end instead of at the beginning, therefore end immediately after 
they are started? If that were the case, you could just set the 
currentTime to 0 before you play the video.


Just a thought that occurred to me. I'm not even sure about the saving 
currentTime part, but it's a possibility.


Good thoughts, but... the script sets the currentTime to zero before 
each playback starts. I'm not sure saving a movie also saves its current 
time anyway; don't they always open at the beginning?


I did get more info from the customer. There is no virus checker running 
automatically (she does manual checks) so that's not the issue (so much 
for that hope.) The loop does run, she can tell because the 
corresponding images flash past. It looks like we're either going to 
have to write a special app that does some logging, or just wait till 
someone else has the problem too, to see if it is worthwhile to pursue 
it. This is when I wish I could just go to that machine and run it 
myself -- but she's in another country.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Moving an Object into a Group

[J. Landman Gay]

Gregory Lypny wrote:

Hi Bill and André,

Thanks for replying.  I used the same steps as you, Bill, and I just 
tried it again without success.  I have a group; I drag out a new 
button, copy it; click "Edit Group" on the menu palette; and paste.  No 
button appears, and only the original shows in the Application Browser.  
I also tried cutting instead of copying the button, and using Copy 
Objects, Cut Objects, and Paste under the Edit menu instead of keyboard 
shortcuts.  When I leave edit group mode, I can paste the button without 
a problem on the original level it was created.


This was a quirk with Revolution quite some time ago, and I recall 
someone posting a variation of what otherwise would be the normal steps 
to move an existing object into a group, but I'm afraid I didn't save 
that tip.  Sigh.


I wonder if this is the same bug that prohibited editing a group script 
unless you were on the first card of the group. Is your group placed on 
more than one card? If so, did you try editing while on the first card 
of the group?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Moving an Object into a Group

[Jim Ault]

Do you use the keyboard or select copy from the menu?
Try the menu

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 6/8/07 9:01 PM, "Gregory Lypny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Bill and André,
> 
> Thanks for replying.  I used the same steps as you, Bill, and I just
> tried it again without success.  I have a group; I drag out a new
> button, copy it; click "Edit Group" on the menu palette; and paste.
> No button appears, and only the original shows in the Application
> Browser.  I also tried cutting instead of copying the button, and
> using Copy Objects, Cut Objects, and Paste under the Edit menu
> instead of keyboard shortcuts.  When I leave edit group mode, I can
> paste the button without a problem on the original level it was created.
> 
> This was a quirk with Revolution quite some time ago, and I recall
> someone posting a variation of what otherwise would be the normal
> steps to move an existing object into a group, but I'm afraid I
> didn't save that tip.  Sigh.
> 
> I'm using a G4 iBook and OS X 10.4.9.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gregory
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2007, at 11:09 PM, Bill Marriott wrote:
> 
>> Worked fine for me on Windows...
>> 
>> 1. Drag out four buttons and group them
>> 2. Drag out a field
>> 3. Copy the field
>> 4. Click the Group
>> 5. Click "Edit Group" on the menu palette
>> 6. Paste
>> 
>> Field appears within the group as expected...
>> 
>> What are the actual steps you're using, Gregory? If you're skipping
>> the
>> "Edit Group" step, perhaps it's being pasted into the group but
>> outside its
>> current bounds?
>> 
>>> André.Bisseret wrote:
>>> That works here on MacPro Intel, 10.4.9 and Rev 2.8.1
>>> 
>>> Le 8 juin 07 à 21:58, Gregory Lypny a écrit :
>>> 
 This is an old problem that I'm surprised to find in 2.8.1.  I
 create a
 field outside of a group.  Later I decide that I want that  field
 to be
 part of the group, but when I cut or copy the field and  then
 edit the
 group, pasting does nothing.  How can I move an  existing object
 into a
 group?
> 
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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Scott Kane]

From: "Björnke von Gierke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

You can set the stack style or mode to modeless. That makes the stack 
always be in run mode within the rev ide, but you get pinstripes. You 
could check for the environment <> "development", and then set the style 
accordingly. The stripes will use the current OS appearance manager, and 
thus always be correct.


Just to report back  Bjoernke's solution works and works well.  :-)

Scott Kane 


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Re: Moving an Object into a Group

[Gregory Lypny]

Hi Bill and André,

Thanks for replying.  I used the same steps as you, Bill, and I just  
tried it again without success.  I have a group; I drag out a new  
button, copy it; click "Edit Group" on the menu palette; and paste.   
No button appears, and only the original shows in the Application  
Browser.  I also tried cutting instead of copying the button, and  
using Copy Objects, Cut Objects, and Paste under the Edit menu  
instead of keyboard shortcuts.  When I leave edit group mode, I can  
paste the button without a problem on the original level it was created.


This was a quirk with Revolution quite some time ago, and I recall  
someone posting a variation of what otherwise would be the normal  
steps to move an existing object into a group, but I'm afraid I  
didn't save that tip.  Sigh.


I'm using a G4 iBook and OS X 10.4.9.


Regards,

Gregory


On Fri, Jun 8, 2007, at 11:09 PM, Bill Marriott wrote:


Worked fine for me on Windows...

1. Drag out four buttons and group them
2. Drag out a field
3. Copy the field
4. Click the Group
5. Click "Edit Group" on the menu palette
6. Paste

Field appears within the group as expected...

What are the actual steps you're using, Gregory? If you're skipping  
the
"Edit Group" step, perhaps it's being pasted into the group but  
outside its

current bounds?


André.Bisseret wrote:
That works here on MacPro Intel, 10.4.9 and Rev 2.8.1

Le 8 juin 07 à 21:58, Gregory Lypny a écrit :

This is an old problem that I'm surprised to find in 2.8.1.  I   
create a
field outside of a group.  Later I decide that I want that  field  
to be
part of the group, but when I cut or copy the field and  then  
edit the
group, pasting does nothing.  How can I move an  existing object  
into a

group?


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Re: Simple database question: tags

[Stephen Barncard]

David, it's not that hard to figure out...

Why don't you get an install of Gallery2, install it, and then see 
how they do the MySQL ? It comes with schema and starting data for a 
server. You may have to install it first, but then you can dump the 
schema with CocoaMySQL to look at it.


Most of the time you'll be using 10-50 varchar fields, a numeric 
index field (choose the bit width needed) and date fields.  Figure 
out which ones can and cannot have NULLs. Since everything in rev can 
be text, it's the easiest way to deal with the data in most cases. 
And at least 1 field must be an index.



Thanks all - its a pity there are no existing sources for classic schema you
can copy and modify?


--


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -



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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[Scott Kane]

Authors total:  4179
Products total:  8703
Files total:  10330


I hit send to quickly.  I meant to add - imagine that on a per-capita scale
for Rev.  I can, frankly.  I'd like to see it happen.  Free source snippets,
commercial (for sale) source snippets, libraries etc et al.  Would Rev users
pay?  If they are anything like other coders (i.e. "human") then yes, I
believe so.  Saving ten minutes everytime you need to code something obscure
adds up.  I recently bought two wonderful products from a Rev based company.
Both tools can integrate into Rev and both tools are simply stunning.  They
have saved me hours of work already and they were priced reasonably.  I
don't want the source code as I'm happy for them to work their magic.   Two
thumbs up for commercial solutions and not some half baked, half whacked,
half completed and half bug tested open source "solution" that the author
may or may not get back to finishing one of these days... maybe...if I feel
like it, which phase is the moon in, who won the world series, heck I'm no
longer interested and the project withers and dies.

Scott Kane

P.S.

The products where Button Gadget and Interface Designer from Altuit.

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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[Scott Kane]

From: "Chipp Walters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


I remember it well as I had spent a bunch of time creating it, only to end
up killing it based upon your loud objections of being there first. I
expected great things from your subsequent offering-- which never came 
('in

2 weeks' was what  you said). My first introduction to the Open Source
community.


It's a pattern I've seen in respect of other communities for programming 
tools too.  Yet.  Funny enough the ones who have a commercial bent (i.e. 
they earn money from it somewhere along the line) take off and become little 
Meccas of source code and tools.  For example:


www.torry.net

Here's a summary of what the site holds in terms of source code, products 
etc:


Authors total:  4179
Products total:  8703
Files total:  10330


Scott Kane 


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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Scott Kane]

From: "Ian Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Have a look at 'the systemversion'. Working out what version of OS X  an 
app is running on is pretty trivial.


Thanks, Ian (sound of me kicking myself) - I've seen that before and 
forgotten about it.


Scott 


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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[Chipp Walters]

On 6/8/07, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Ah - way back. though I dont remember anything about RROpenSource.
Actually
I did set up a project on SourceForge,



I remember it well as I had spent a bunch of time creating it, only to end
up killing it based upon your loud objections of being there first. I
expected great things from your subsequent offering-- which never came ('in
2 weeks' was what  you said). My first introduction to the Open Source
community.
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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Scott Kane]

From: "J. Landman Gay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Maybe if you hugged them, they'd leave you alone. ;)


I've tried, Jacqueline, I've tried.  But one of their number is a failed 
programmer and a failed Mac programmer at that.  He's a tough nut to crack 
and he tends to lead the charge which the others follow - very quickly.  I 
could ditch him but some of the things he's contributed in terms of 
"Mac -ability" of the project preclude that.  However  If  Björnke's 
suggestion works I'll follow your suggestion  ;-)


Scott 


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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[Scott Kane]

From: "David Bovill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Maybe that was a mistake, and all it ever takes it pig headed stubborness
and following through - but without encouraging signs from RunRev itself 
or

a subset of the list - well maybe its not such a good idea after all?


A "subset of the list".  No offence intended, David.  But why is it that 
when people get really passionate about their favourite wheel barrow that 
they are pushing that they so often seem to assume that the "silent 
majority" agree with them, when in fact they may indeed disagree 
completely - but being silent one never actually knows?


Scott Kane 


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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[J. Landman Gay]

Scott Kane wrote:
BTW - I just noticed I wrote in the subject line "HUG" and not "HIG".  
Right now I certainly would not be "HUG" ing my users though "HIG" ing 
them sounds interesting.  


Maybe if you hugged them, they'd leave you alone. ;)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Scott Kane]

From: "Björnke von Gierke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"


G'day Björnke,

You can set the stack style or mode to modeless. That makes the stack 
always be in run mode within the rev ide, but you get pinstripes. You 
could check for the environment <> "development", and then set the style 
accordingly. The stripes will use the current OS appearance manager, and 
thus always be correct.


It's a strange concept, I know


Yes - but it sounds like a plan!!!  Thank you.  I'm going to check it out. 
:-)


Scott 


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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Scott Kane]

BTW - I just noticed I wrote in the subject line "HUG" and not "HIG".  Right 
now I certainly would not be "HUG" ing my users though "HIG" ing them sounds 
interesting.  


Scott 


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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Scott Kane]

From: "Jim Sims" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


If you...
go to the card inspector > colors & patterns > click Background  ( 
backgroundPattern )
go to Standard Icons > second from last row - next to last standard  icon 
is a pinstripe


Card goes pinstripe with that particular version of pinstripe.


That help?


For the Jaguar users, yes.  I use this technique right now - but thanks for 
suggesting it!!   :-)


Scott 


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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Luis]

On 7 Jun 2007, at 4:59, Brian Yennie wrote:

Snip.

I wouldn't mind seeing Rev follow a similar path. What if, for  
example, you had the *paid* option to move from 2.9 to 2.9.1,  
2.9.2, 2.9.3, 2.9.4 and so on instead of jumping to 3.0? I'm  
guessing many users here would pay for the option to stay with the  
version they have if they knew it would be supported, bug fixed,  
and kept compatible with OS updates. Yes it might cannibalize some  
upgrades, but it would also create revenue from people who might  
never upgrade to the next version, especially if they see the  
current one breaking.




No thanks!

Cheers,

Luis.


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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[David Bovill]

On 08/06/07, Chipp Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On 6/8/07, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

In 2002, I built an website titled "RROpenSource" which had the ability
for
users to contribute Open Source RR projects online. Ready to launch, I
disclosed it only to a few, I believe you included. If I recall correctly,
you mentioned you were working on a similar project and requested I not
release RROpenSource as you were almost ready to launch. So, it never came
to light.



Ah - way back. though I dont remember anything about RROpenSource. Actually
I did set up a project on SourceForge, and scripted CVS integration into the
MC IDE, also built Rev based cgi site on SourceForge which surprised me that
they allowed it being so security conscious.

There were several attempts - some before this and some since. MC IDE went
open source, Alain Farmer started / continued a project as did Xavier -
honestly i don't think anyone was ready back then, and my judgement was that
without proper integration into the development environment this was not
going to take off without RunRev itself being behind it.

Maybe that was a mistake, and all it ever takes it pig headed stubborness
and following through - but without encouraging signs from RunRev itself or
a subset of the list - well maybe its not such a good idea after all?
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Re: Simple database question: tags

[David Bovill]

Hey thanks!

Its a reasonable start - though something standard like SQL create stuff or
dumps would be better - no?
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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[Chipp Walters]

On 6/8/07, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


There are reasons that there are very very few robust
developer contributed libraries in our community while there are good ones
in python and ruby, and OK ones in php. This can and should change, and a
carefully planned open source strategy would be a low cost part of that
change.



In 2002, I built an website titled "RROpenSource" which had the ability for
users to contribute Open Source RR projects online. Ready to launch, I
disclosed it only to a few, I believe you included. If I recall correctly,
you mentioned you were working on a similar project and requested I not
release RROpenSource as you were almost ready to launch. So, it never came
to light.

Just wondering if that is still part of your 'carefully planned open source
strategy' ? I suppose that project probably ended up in the 'under 10%'
activity filter as well.
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Re: Moving an Object into a Group

[Bill Marriott]

Worked fine for me on Windows...

1. Drag out four buttons and group them
2. Drag out a field
3. Copy the field
4. Click the Group
5. Click "Edit Group" on the menu palette
6. Paste

Field appears within the group as expected...

What are the actual steps you're using, Gregory? If you're skipping the 
"Edit Group" step, perhaps it's being pasted into the group but outside its 
current bounds?

> André.Bisseret wrote:
> That works here on MacPro Intel, 10.4.9 and Rev 2.8.1
>
> Le 8 juin 07 à 21:58, Gregory Lypny a écrit :
>
>> This is an old problem that I'm surprised to find in 2.8.1.  I  create a 
>> field outside of a group.  Later I decide that I want that  field to be 
>> part of the group, but when I cut or copy the field and  then edit the 
>> group, pasting does nothing.  How can I move an  existing object into a 
>> group?



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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Warren wrote:

Richard Gaskin wrote: 
So if RunRev added an "Automatically Check for Updates" feature to 
compliment the the existing "Check for Updates" menu item, these sorts 
of threads would go away?  :) 


They would, they would!


Request submitted for your voting pleasue:


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Simple database question: tags

[william humphrey]

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/sql/dataschema/default.aspx

On 6/8/07, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks all - its a pity there are no existing sources for classic schema you
can copy and modify?
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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Bob Warren]

Bob Warren wrote:

> The real reason behind all of this is the fact that I am fascinated by 
> the vision of a dancing "Rev Online" icon at the top of my IDE window to 
> tell me that bug-fix downloads are available!  :-D 
  

Richard Gaskin wrote:

So if RunRev added an "Automatically Check for Updates" feature to 
compliment the the existing "Check for Updates" menu item, these sorts 
of threads would go away?  :) 


-
They would, they would! Especially if after clicking on the icon we were told:

"Hello! Runtime Revolution here. We have some crucial update patches for your IDE. 
Do you want to download them?"

I've just clicked on the existing "Check for Updates" menu item on OSX and this 
is what it said:

"There are currently no updates available, please check again soon".

By the way, what does "soon" mean? Is it like the "coming soon" for the Rev/Linux update which so far at 
the Rev site has said "2.7 coming soon", "2.8 coming soon", '2.9 coming soon", ..?

Every time I try to grab it, it shifts!  :-P 


Bob




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Re: Curious QT playback problem

[huthaifa alqeisi]

please please please
  delete me from your database
  please.
  regards


Devin Asay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Jacque,

You said the user has QT Pro, right? That means she can save movies 
from the QT player. Is it possible that she has opened and saved the 
movies after having played them to the end? So that the "currentTime" 
is in effect saved with the movie. Would that then cause the movie to 
open at the end instead of at the beginning, therefore end 
immediately after they are started? If that were the case, you could 
just set the currentTime to 0 before you play the video.

Just a thought that occurred to me. I'm not even sure about the 
saving currentTime part, but it's a possibility.

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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-
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
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Re: Moving an Object into a Group

[André.Bisseret]

Hi Gregory,
That works here on MacPro Intel, 10.4.9 and Rev 2.8.1

Best regards from Grenoble
André

Le 8 juin 07 à 21:58, Gregory Lypny a écrit :


Hello everyone,

This is an old problem that I'm surprised to find in 2.8.1.  I  
create a field outside of a group.  Later I decide that I want that  
field to be part of the group, but when I cut or copy the field and  
then edit the group, pasting does nothing.  How can I move an  
existing object into a group?


Regards,

Gregory
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Re: Curious QT playback problem

[Devin Asay]

Jacque,

You said the user has QT Pro, right? That means she can save movies  
from the QT player. Is it possible that she has opened and saved the  
movies after having played them to the end? So that the "currentTime"  
is in effect saved with the movie. Would that then cause the movie to  
open at the end instead of at the beginning, therefore end  
immediately after they are started? If that were the case, you could  
just set the currentTime to 0 before you play the video.


Just a thought that occurred to me. I'm not even sure about the  
saving currentTime part, but it's a possibility.


Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[David Bovill]

On 08/06/07, Andre Garzia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Good OSS is here to solve a problem. Usually a problem that is not

being solved by the mainstream players. The good ones are also managed
like a "enterprise", so again, what is the problem that an OSS RunRev
would solve? I see nothing wrong right now.



While I agree that we live in a perfect world, and that open source
methodology builds on top of the need to scratch itches, I would not
directly conclude that open source is only their to solve technical issues.
Fundamentally open source has a track record at building large user bases
for software projects with small budgets, or alternatively to "dramatically
lower the cost of the acceptance of a language by a technical community".

Of course there are and have been things Id like to do with the source code
which I have not been able to take forwards or even experiment with the
possibilities... I think other developers would have and would have been
attracted to the platform if this were possible.

But mainly I'd like a larger developer community producing better and more
robust libraries that were free to play with and you could buy if you need
to close the source. There are reasons that there are very very few robust
developer contributed libraries in our community while there are good ones
in python and ruby, and OK ones in php. This can and should change, and a
carefully planned open source strategy would be a low cost part of that
change.
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Re: Simple database question: tags

[David Bovill]

Thanks all - its a pity there are no existing sources for classic schema you
can copy and modify?
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Moving an Object into a Group

[Gregory Lypny]

Hello everyone,

This is an old problem that I'm surprised to find in 2.8.1.  I create  
a field outside of a group.  Later I decide that I want that field to  
be part of the group, but when I cut or copy the field and then edit  
the group, pasting does nothing.  How can I move an existing object  
into a group?


Regards,

Gregory
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Re: WAR ON BUGS [WAS Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev, would do this?)]

[J. Landman Gay]

Bob Warren wrote:

When you mentioned "the roadmap" I was taken aback. What roadmap? 
"Enterprise" license holders and those who have the money to travel to 
conferences are undoubtedly more in the know because they are paying for 
it, but ordinary "Studio" license holders such as myself have little 
idea of what Rev plans to do.


Right. Enterprise users are under NDA and so they get more info. It's 
one of the perks. Conference attendees also sign an NDA. I guess the 
best that Studio and Media users can do is trust others when they say 
that things are going along according to plan.



1. Is there a need for regular Rev updates or not?


Sure there is. Runtime generally releases 4 to 6 updates per year, which 
is quite a lot for a multi-OS-compatible program. That's one every two 
to three months.


2. To know that a bug has been "fixed" doesn't help if the fix cannot be 
implemented within a reasonable time. Is "turnaround" in this sense 
anywhere near adequate at the moment?


You can tell which bugs have been fixed by searching the Quality Control 
center, using the "advanced" search option to look for bugs that have 
been fixed since a particular date. Those fixes will be in the next 
release, which will generally be within 3 months or so of the last one.




If you tell me that such wonderful things are already in the pipeline, 
then I am very pleased. But Rev didn't tell me.


Nor should they. Few companies release details on upcoming release 
timelines or what's included in them until the release is actually out. 
Can you tell me when the next update of Photoshop is due out and what 
will be in it?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: There's no place like Home

[Tereza Snyder]

On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


J. Landman Gay wrote:


On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:
For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their  
company
splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be  
there, and
obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the  
result would be
the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned  
from your

Home Stack template. How much time would that save you?


GREAT suggestion! If, as Jacque pointed out, the IDE home stack  
is functionally the same as a 'standalone' stack, this idea has a  
resonant symmetry for me. Include some "standard library' scripts  
and away we go!
But not so great for those of us who write apps for lots of  
different clients, each of which requires a different setup. If  
this idea goes anywhere, it should be an optional setting. My own  
preference is for a button on the Home stack that would open a  
custom template stack instead, and leave the Home stack alone.


I see the value in this, but it sounds like a good opportunity for  
a template/wizard more than a Home stack.


I see your point, and I concede it virtues. I'll always be a sucker  
for minimalist and pure solutions. Not so practical, however.


t


--
Tereza Snyder
Califex Software, Inc.


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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Bob Warren]

Richard Gaskin wrote:

But even without a formal open source process, Kevin has said that if 
someone makes a patcher for the IDE which applies any such changes, they 
 could easily run it to evaluate them and would consider including them.


-
Thanks very much, Richard. That sounds very positive and encouraging to me.

Bob


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Re: WAR ON BUGS [WAS Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev, would do this?)]

[Bob Warren]

Stephen Barncard wrote:

At 4:12 PM -0300 6/7/07, Bob Warren wrote:


1. RR should provide feature releases on a regular basis. We pay for them.
  
And we'll be getting them. It's in the roadmap, and Kevin is sticking to 
it.
>2. We do not pay for bugfixes. The manufacturer is just putting 
>right what he has done wrong.
  
We didn't pay for bug fixes. Runrev extended their free upgrade policy 
to customers for over a year while the WOB was going on.
>The other day, I put forward a model under the thread "A glimpse of 
>the future" which was totally ignored. I must therefore presume that 
>in the opinion of all
  
I don't think we're ignoring you, we're just exhausted from the 
negative. I feel Rev has emerged from a dark buggy period into the 
light. We've had a few 'Rev outa do this' emails lately where the poster 
seemed to go on and on and complain that Rev isn't doing enough to 
please him, and he takes the stand of 'demanding customer'. Arguments 
about 'bug free is impossible' vs 'it must be bug free, screw the new 
features' ensues. These threads go on for weeks, then die down, then 
another person (who didn't read the ones before) takes over. (I won't 
name names...) I will mention Bill Marriot was once a big complainer 
(with good reason)... but the difference is that he joined the Rev team, 
started a 'War On Bugs!' and made a difference. I'm glad Rev exists, and 
if a few bumps along the road are there, I won't complain as long as I 
know there's work being done on my wishes. They are not Microsoft and 
cannot deliver the manpower in the same way. Actually they have enlisted 
many of us in their efforts to improve the product, and I think that's 
far better than Microsoft. How can you help? When you see a bug, take 
the time to describe it enough to repeat it, or make a movie, or demo 
stack and send all of it to Quality Control. It will get fixed. I've 
seen it happen in days.


-
Thanks for that, Stephen. First of all, I think that Rev have been doing 
rather well lately, that's why I feel inspired enough to put forward 
some suggestions for further improvement. Do you think I should stop? 
How does one point out limitations in the current practice of the system 
without being "negative" as you suggest?


When you mentioned "the roadmap" I was taken aback. What roadmap? 
"Enterprise" license holders and those who have the money to travel to 
conferences are undoubtedly more in the know because they are paying for 
it, but ordinary "Studio" license holders such as myself have little 
idea of what Rev plans to do.  It is therefore very difficult for us to 
arrange our programming lives.


I didn't say we paid for bugfixes. I really don't know what we actually 
pay for, either directly or indirectly. It's not clear to me. What I did 
suggest is that upgrades should be (well) paid for and that they should 
not be for the purpose of bugfixing. Bugfixing should be done constantly 
in between releases. Certainly, this would make the situation a bit clearer.


As for the rest of your post, the only thing I will say is that I feel 
there is no need to put me into the category of the various stereotypes 
you mention, since they are all negative and you are obviously "bugged" 
about something. I am not one of your bugs, so please try and trust my 
intentions a little more.


Let me just ask you a few questions. In relation to current practices as 
they are seen by ordinary users:


1. Is there a need for regular Rev updates or not?
2. To know that a bug has been "fixed" doesn't help if the fix cannot be 
implemented within a reasonable time. Is "turnaround" in this sense 
anywhere near adequate at the moment?


If you tell me that such wonderful things are already in the pipeline, 
then I am very pleased. But Rev didn't tell me.


Bob

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Re: There's no place like Home

[Richard Gaskin]

J. Landman Gay wrote:


On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:

For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their company
splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be there, 
and
obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the result 
would be

the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned from your
Home Stack template. How much time would that save you?


GREAT suggestion! 
If, as Jacque pointed out, the IDE home stack is functionally the same 
as a 'standalone' stack, this idea has a resonant symmetry for me. 
Include some "standard library' scripts and away we go!


But not so great for those of us who write apps for lots of different 
clients, each of which requires a different setup. If this idea goes 
anywhere, it should be an optional setting. My own preference is for a 
button on the Home stack that would open a custom template stack 
instead, and leave the Home stack alone.


I see the value in this, but it sounds like a good opportunity for a 
template/wizard more than a Home stack.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: Simple database question: tags

[Ruslan Zasukhin]

On 8/6/07 6:25 PM, "Andre Garzia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> google uses a filesystem... yes, that's no relational database. It's
> not like GoogleSQL it's more like GoogleFS.
> 
> David,
> 
> First try to learn basics of SQL, you can go to W3Schools Learn SQL
> page  then you can try using
> RevSQL or Valentina to play with SQL commands.
> 
> What I do in your case was to have three tables
> 
> Table 1: the data.
> In this table I'd hold the data, the real data, like in case of reddit
> or delicious is the URL.
> 
> Table 2: the keywords
> In this table I hold metadata, one entry per keyword, all unique.
> 
> Table 3: relationship between table 1 and 2.
> This table just maps relationships between keywords and data, this
> allows me to have a many-to-many relations where I can map a single
> keyword like 'oranges' to many items such as all the products that are
> orange-like and to map one product like 'maltese orange' to various
> keywords such as 'make-nice-soft-drink', 'orange',
> 'expensive-outside-malta'.

You can see PICTURE with example of such design right on this page:

http://www.valentina-db.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=paradigma:public:en:documen
tation:vkernel:vlink:mm_table_to_binarylink

See FIRST picture on page


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: There's no place like Home

[J. Landman Gay]

Tereza Snyder wrote:


On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:



For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their company
splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be there, 
and
obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the result 
would be

the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned from your
Home Stack template. How much time would that save you?



GREAT suggestion!

If, as Jacque pointed out, the IDE home stack is functionally the same 
as a 'standalone' stack, this idea has a resonant symmetry for me. 
Include some "standard library' scripts and away we go!


But not so great for those of us who write apps for lots of different 
clients, each of which requires a different setup. If this idea goes 
anywhere, it should be an optional setting. My own preference is for a 
button on the Home stack that would open a custom template stack 
instead, and leave the Home stack alone.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: AW: newbie video player questions

[Klaus Major]

Dag Eddie,


Hi Eddie,


hi eric, thanks (wow, this is a great list)
this looks more complicated then I hoped it would be. 


:-D


please don't get me wrong, this big smile was meant for Eric
and his ehm... bombastic style ;-)



Groetjes uit duitsland

Klaus Major
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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Ian Wood]

On 8 Jun 2007, at 13:25, Scott Kane wrote:

They are being really picky over this and as there is no way (that  
I know of) of getting Rev to identify which OSX is running so I  
have to choose one.


Have a look at 'the systemversion'. Working out what version of OS X  
an app is running on is pretty trivial.


Ian
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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Brent Anderson]

Hello.

Another option could be having a gap between the "Latest and  
Greatest" version of Revolution and an older version opened under  
open source say, for instance, 2.5. As upgrades are made to the  
cutting edge version (Which you would pay for), older versions would  
be open sourced as well. That way, there would be the Open Source  
community supporting legacy Revolution and Runrev supporting the  
cutting edge development of Revolution as we know it.


Thanks,
Brent Anderson
http://www.spacecamputah.org
http://www.fieryferret.com
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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Brian Yennie]

I second that. As a RunRev user but also someone who does large  
projects in PHP/MySQL (both open source tools, in spite of MySQL's  
wonky licensing), this definitely rings true.


Don't get me wrong, I don't have a solution for RunRev, but here is  
one facet which I find interesting which *maybe* they could emulate.


Many of the most popular open source tools out there have two major  
branches supported. For example, I have my choice of:


Apache
---
version 1.3.37 (still runs great, runs more sites than 2.0)
version 2.0.59 ("legacy" version of the new 2.0+ architecture)
version 2.2.4 (the latest and greatest, but still fairly stable)

PHP
---
version 4.4.7 (until recently, the latest and greatest)
version 5.2.3 (the latest and greatest)

MySQL
---
version 4.1 (what most people are using)
version 5.0 (the latest stable version)
version 5.1 (beta)
version 6.0 (alpha)

Generally speaking, the latest and greatest of each of these has  
significantly fewer users than the previous major version. Granted,  
server technologies have different requirements from GUI apps running  
on the newest consumer machines.


I wouldn't mind seeing Rev follow a similar path. What if, for  
example, you had the *paid* option to move from 2.9 to 2.9.1, 2.9.2,  
2.9.3, 2.9.4 and so on instead of jumping to 3.0? I'm guessing many  
users here would pay for the option to stay with the version they  
have if they knew it would be supported, bug fixed, and kept  
compatible with OS updates. Yes it might cannibalize some upgrades,  
but it would also create revenue from people who might never upgrade  
to the next version, especially if they see the current one breaking.


Look at Apache. 1.3.37. That's 37 bug fix releases! How many people  
here would rather spend their money on Revolution 2.9.37 than an  
upgrade to 3.0.0? I'm betting a significant chunk of this list. Some  
people would buy both. New customers could choose. Rock solid  
version, or cutting edge?


Anyway, I know this is all easier said than done - but I think it's  
worth noting that there actually is potential revenue in it for  
RunRev. Maybe even enough to hire a developer to just keep those old  
releases shiny and keep fixing bugs...



On 6/6/07, Samuel M. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The problem I have with runrev is not open source per se but that
with a paid model the incentive
is for the developer to release "feature" updates that sound good to
justify paying upgrade fees but
that for the most part are not nearly as valuable to a developer as
maintaining stable quality code.
Mature open source on the other hand has the opposite incentive,
stable code and only add features that
people are willing to invest time in to get so you get a different
evolution of features over time.



Brilliant.
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Re: Curious QT playback problem

[Brian Yennie]

Jacque,

This is a stab in the dark, but from a logical standpoint, could this  
be happening:


1) User starts first movie
2) For whatever reason, it takes more than 250 milliseconds to  
actually start playing
3) Timer sees that currentTime hasn't changed, think the movie is  
done (in reality, it hasn't even started)

4) Go to second movie, repeat #2...

This might be no help if your script is more complicated (i.e. checks  
the duration against the current time), but that's the only logical  
flow I could think of...!


Maybe something about her machine or Quicktime Pro is taking longer  
to start playing the movies? 250 milliseconds might be enough to  
throw off your script, but still not human-perceived?



I'm hoping someone has a clue to this...

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Re: Legacy stack woes II -- Restated

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:
Consider the number of potentially affected users:  the subset of 
Rev users still using only older versions,


If the issue were simply that developers have not chosen to upgrade 
to current-format versions, I would ignore the issue and release all 
stacks in the current format.


However, my understanding is that RunRev developers on Linux 
platforms do not have a current-stack-format version option.  If I am 
wrong, then your point is well taken; if I am correct, I feel than an 
open source package like SDB might be best received by developers 
using an open source platform, and therefore Legacy-format is a must 
until Linux developers have another option..


In a few weeks that'll go away too.

But in the meantime, I think you hit the nail on the head in your last 
post:  just set it up for both versions and include what's needed for both.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Andre Garzia]

On 6/8/07, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Bob Warren wrote:
> The real reason behind all of this is the fact that I am fascinated by
> the vision of a dancing "Rev Online" icon at the top of my IDE window to
> tell me that bug-fix downloads are available! :-D



Bob,

you know you don't need OSS for that. Just request from Rev the
specification about how the 'check updates' function talks with their
server and write yourself a plugin that checks that on startup.

andre
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Re: Simple database question: tags

[Andre Garzia]

google uses a filesystem... yes, that's no relational database. It's
not like GoogleSQL it's more like GoogleFS.

David,

First try to learn basics of SQL, you can go to W3Schools Learn SQL
page  then you can try using
RevSQL or Valentina to play with SQL commands.

What I do in your case was to have three tables

Table 1: the data.
In this table I'd hold the data, the real data, like in case of reddit
or delicious is the URL.

Table 2: the keywords
In this table I hold metadata, one entry per keyword, all unique.

Table 3: relationship between table 1 and 2.
This table just maps relationships between keywords and data, this
allows me to have a many-to-many relations where I can map a single
keyword like 'oranges' to many items such as all the products that are
orange-like and to map one product like 'maltese orange' to various
keywords such as 'make-nice-soft-drink', 'orange',
'expensive-outside-malta'.

I am by no means a DB pro or something like that, but that's the
pattern I'd use to hold data and metadata that are so generic that I
know nothing about them besides the fact that they might be related to
each other. If you know beforehand the keywords and can group them in
families or group your data in sets then you probably have a better
schema than mine that would speed your searches and use less records.

Andre


On 6/8/07, william humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

You are asking an interesting question. There is lots of information
on database design (which includes schema) but the type of database
design you want is more like what they do on the big search engines.
When google indexes everything and builds a table of keywords -- I
don't even know what they use...

Does anyone?

On 6/7/07, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Going to have a go at knocking up a database for RevCode handlers - and I
> want to create a database schema for it. I know I want del.icio.us style
> tagging, and I'll be indexing them with the language terms used as well as
> keywords such as "html", "array", "outline" or "view" etc I'm thinking I
> need a database as I know I'll want to experiment a lot with searches -
> particularly for handlers with the highest hits... and that seems a bit
> hairy to do with arrays and memory based indexes?
>
> So the question is - is there a resource anyone knows of for database
> schema's - a sort of design pattern thing for databases for people like me
> that know a little but not enough to design one except by trial and error?
> Say for folksonomy tagging for a starter?
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Re: Legacy stack woes II -- Restated

[Rob Cozens]

Richard, et al:


Consider the number of potentially affected users:  the subset of 
Rev users still using only older versions,



If the issue were simply that developers have not chosen to upgrade 
to current-format versions, I would ignore the issue and release all 
stacks in the current format.


However, my understanding is that RunRev developers on Linux 
platforms do not have a current-stack-format version option.  If I am 
wrong, then your point is well taken; if I am correct, I feel than an 
open source package like SDB might be best received by developers 
using an open source platform, and therefore Legacy-format is a must 
until Linux developers have another option..


Rob

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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Warren wrote:
The real reason behind all of this is the fact that I am fascinated by 
the vision of a dancing "Rev Online" icon at the top of my IDE window to 
tell me that bug-fix downloads are available! :-D


So if RunRev added an "Automatically Check for Updates" feature to 
compliment the the existing "Check for Updates" menu item, these sorts 
of threads would go away?


:)



P.S. To what degree is "patching" of the Rev IDE possible or practical?


AFAIK only three stacks in the Rev IDE are locked:  the Standalone 
Builder, License.rev, and RevOnline.


All others are open for your modification, with the caveat that your 
changes will be lost with the next update.


If RunRev would consider open sourcing the IDE as MetaCard's is, you 
would be able to contribute changes for them to consider including in 
the master build.


But even without a formal open source process, Kevin has said that if 
someone makes a patcher for the IDE which applies any such changes, they 
 could easily run it to evaluate them and would consider including them.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Legacy stack woes II -- Restated

[Rob Cozens]

All,

Is it possible to distribute a "source" stack for other developers 
to use to build a standalone in a single format that can be used by 
all versions of the Distribution Builder?


Best I've come up with

1. Add DB settings to current-format stack.

2. Convert stack to Legacy format.

3. Ship [stack name] Config.rev in Legacy format with stack.

Legacy versions should look at the Config stack and ignore DB 
settings in source stack; current format versions should find the DB 
settings in the source stack and ignore the Config stack.


?

Rob  


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Re: Legacy stack woes II -- Restated

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:
Is it possible to distribute a "source" stack for other developers to 
use to build a standalone in a single format that can be used by all 
versions of the Distribution Builder?


If build settings are included in the source stack, older versions of 
the Distribution Builder won't find them; if build settings are in 
[stack name] Config.rev, newer version of the Distribution Builder 
won't find them.


The alternative seems to be listing the settings in a ReadMe file and 
forcing the developer to specify them to the Distribution Builder.


If I understand this correctly, to be compatible with both versions 
you'd need to set it up for both versions, so that you'd have the config 
file for older users and the custom props ready to go for newer ones. 
AFAIK the two don't interfere with one another.


But stepping back to look at the bigger picture, is the problem truly 
larger than the solution?


Consider the number of potentially affected users:  the subset of Rev 
users still using only older versions, and the subset of those exploring 
SDB, and the subset of those whose explorations motivate them to want a 
standalone, and the subset of those who wouldn't find any standalones 
you could make yourself acceptable for their purposes.


Another way to answer this question is to look at what RunRev themselves 
have done:  Did they consider it worthwhile making the new Standalone 
Builder compatible with the older config files, so that it could at a 
minimum read those props and move them into the new custom property?


If they didn't see it as worth doing for 100% of Rev IDE users I'd think 
you're off the hook on this one, and can move on to more pressing concerns.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[Andre Garzia]

I don't believe that SF and Freshmeat numbers can really be trusted.
They measure activity based on interaction with their site using some
math. Most OSS software also have their own page with mirrors and the
like, this traffic and interaction is not measured by SF or Freshmeat.

I think that the amount of unhealthy OSS project must be way beyond
1%. Like 70% or something like that, I keep seeing people forking
projects and creating little projects without a clue of what it takes
to manage a sucessful open project. From silly stuff like "a project
to bring true artificial inteligence to computers" done by hack4rs
that learn from computers by watching the pirates of sillicon valley
replays to unmeasurable amount of linux distros trying to be the next
redhat or ubuntu, just go to distrowatch and check how many linux
distros are nothing but debian with a new backdrop and boot screen.

Good OSS is here to solve a problem. Usually a problem that is not
being solved by the mainstream players. The good ones are also managed
like a "enterprise", so again, what is the problem that an OSS RunRev
would solve? I see nothing wrong right now.

On 6/8/07, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Wow! Thaks for the post Chipp - always good to have some hard facts.

2000 out of *150,114* projects - really is that all?  That makes 2/150 - or
less that 1% of projects! I would have guessed it as more like 20%

How many non-open source software projects end up in the scrap heap - more
of less than 1%?


On 08/06/07, Chipp Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 6/7/07, Peter Alcibiades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The world is just not the way you are suggesting it is, and it is so
> > obviously
> > not that way, that there is little point in asserting it is.
>
>
> A quick  search at sourceforge shows close to 2000 projects with less than
> 10% activity. So, it appears at least a healthy part of Open Source
> projects
> may end up exactly as Paul is suggesting.
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Legacy stack woes II -- Restated

[Rob Cozens]

Jacque, Richard, et al:

Let me ask this another way:

Is it possible to distribute a "source" stack for other developers to 
use to build a standalone in a single format that can be used by all 
versions of the Distribution Builder?


If build settings are included in the source stack, older versions of 
the Distribution Builder won't find them; if build settings are in 
[stack name] Config.rev, newer version of the Distribution Builder 
won't find them.


The alternative seems to be listing the settings in a ReadMe file and 
forcing the developer to specify them to the Distribution Builder.


Rob 


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Re: Unexpected quits in 2.8.1

[Shari]

Now it won't quit.  Once I turned the screensaver off for three 
hours, and the stack played happily by itself, I turned the 
screensaver/sleep mode back on and went to bed.  This morning, the 
stack is still going, no quits.


Very strange.  It was quitting consistently prior to turning the 
SS/sleep off and on again.


No bug report from me today.

Shari
--
Windows and Macintosh shareware games
BIackjack Gold
http://www.gypsyware.com
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Re: AW: newbie video player questions

[d]

thanks eric,
I'll try and figure it all out. still learning what handlers and tag  
marks and all that stuff are but I am learning as I go.


best regards
eddie d





Hi Eddie,


if time is < 12 go stack morning


Actually  it is what it makes :-)
You need a reference: this one is given by converting the short  
date to seconds.
What is nice is that conversion gives you the seconds at 0:00 then  
you are firmly anchored :-)


As Tiemo told you, you are not obliged to have three substacks,  
closing and opening them but may be only three cards in one substack.
As for the rest, take care I used pseudo code between tag marks:  
you have to write there real code.
As for where to put this handler: in your main stack script for  
instance and you'll add:


on openStack
  if the long name of me = the long name of this stack then  
DisplayRightStack --

end openStack

This condition will ensure that the handler will not run when a  
substack is open.


Le 8 juin 07 à 15:26, eddie d a écrit :



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Re: AW: newbie video player questions

[Klaus Major]

Correction, little typo occured:

## Now thelast option: evening to midnicht...
  if tHour >= 18 AND tHour < 24 then
go stack "Evening stack"
  end if
end opensthecorrectstackaccordingtothecurrentdaytime


Best

Klaus
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Re: AW: newbie video player questions

[Klaus Major]

Hi Eddie,


hi eric, thanks (wow, this is a great list)
this looks more complicated then I hoped it would be. 


:-D

I was hoping you
could just read the system time and have it do stuff according to that. 
(like if time is < 12 go stack morning)

but I'll try this.
were do I put this, in the main stack or in each substack?


OK, here is the EASY NEW YORK DJ "Aufulitch" LIVE REMIX version ;-)

on opensthecorrectstackaccordingtothecurrentdaytime
## if you dont not want to mess with AM and PM in the time,
## I recommend to switch to 24 hour format before we start
 set the twelvehourtime to false

 put the time into tTime
 ## tTime is now something like 14:32
 ## Now we extract the hours from tTime
  set the itemdelimiter to ":"
  put item 1 of tTime into tHour

  ## Now we check tHour and act accordingly
  ## we should check a RANGE of hours to be correct:
  if tHour >= 0 AND tHour < 12 then
  ## From midnight to early day...
 go stack "Morning stack"
  end if

  ## Now check for aternoon...
  if tHour >= 12 AND tHour < 18 then
go stack "Afternoon stack"
  end if

  ## Now thelast option: evening to midnicht...
  if tHour >= 6 AND tHour < 24 then
go stack "Evening stack"
  end if
end opensthecorrectstackaccordingtothecurrentdaytime

OK the handler name is incredible :-), but the rest of the
script should be easier to understand.

Please look up all unknown terms in the dictionary.

Hope that helps.



eddie




so now I need to figure out how to let it go to a certain substack on 
a specific time.
I thought I make a subtack for 'morning' one for 'afternoon' and one 
for 'evening' and in each stack are a number of cards with a videoplayer

any idea on how to do this?

eddie d


The way to master this is to work with seconds and a pending message:

on DisplayRightStack
  local tMidnightSeconds
  -
  HEAVY STUFF HERE... 8-)

...

...
Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.


Best from germany

Klaus Major
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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Tereza Snyder]

On Jun 7, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

Right. Defining our own syntax would give us that. We would want an  
improved externals interface of course). I would love to have  
english like syntax wrapped around the QT external or a database  
library. Hopefully someday.


Spinnaker Plus (later marketed as WinPlus) was an xTalk that had  
externals—what they called "software slot objects",—which did allow  
you to parse the script from the point at which the external command  
or function was called. In your C code, you simply asked for the next  
token(s) and interpreted or evaluated the values. Simple and elegant.  
I look forward to the equivalent in Rev someday.


t

--
Tereza Snyder
Califex Software, Inc.


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Re: AW: newbie video player questions

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Eddie,


if time is < 12 go stack morning


Actually  it is what it makes :-)
You need a reference: this one is given by converting the short date  
to seconds.
What is nice is that conversion gives you the seconds at 0:00 then  
you are firmly anchored :-)


As Tiemo told you, you are not obliged to have three substacks,  
closing and opening them but may be only three cards in one substack.
As for the rest, take care I used pseudo code between tag marks: you  
have to write there real code.
As for where to put this handler: in your main stack script for  
instance and you'll add:


on openStack
  if the long name of me = the long name of this stack then  
DisplayRightStack --

end openStack

This condition will ensure that the handler will not run when a  
substack is open.


Le 8 juin 07 à 15:26, eddie d a écrit :


hi eric, thanks (wow, this is a great list)
this looks more complicated then I hoped it would be. I was hoping  
you could just read the system time and have it do stuff according  
to that. (like if time is < 12 go stack morning)

but I'll try this.
were do I put this, in the main stack or in each substack?


eddie




so now I need to figure out how to let it go to a certain  
substack on a specific time.
I thought I make a subtack for 'morning' one for 'afternoon' and  
one for 'evening' and in each stack are a number of cards with a  
videoplayer

any idea on how to do this?

eddie d


The way to master this is to work with seconds and a pending message:

on DisplayRightStack
  local tMidnightSeconds
  -
  put the short date into tMidnightSeconds
  convert tMidnightSeconds to seconds
  -- tDate contains the seconds from today at 0:00
  if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (9*3600) then -- 9 AM

  else if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (14*3600) then -- 2 PM


  else if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (20*3600) then -- 8 PM


  else if the seconds < tMidnightSeconds + (9*3600) then -- before  
9 AM

 
   end if
  -
  if "DisplayRightStack" is not in the pendingMessages then
send "DisplayRightStack" to me in 60 seconds
  end if
end DisplayRightStack

See seconds, convert, pendingMessages, send and related topics in  
the docs.


Best regards from Paris,



Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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Re: AW: AW: newbie video player questions

[eddie d]

hi tiemo,
this sounds interesting and more compact.
but I'll have to ajust eric's time solution to not use substacks.
and can I use random numbers that way?

thanks
eddie



Hello Eddie,
as always, there are more than one approach. But if you don't use different
substaks the maintenance and programming is less. You do only need different
substacks, if you need more than one window. Just think about a good name
set (morning_01, morning_02, afternoon_01, ...) of your cards and you can
just go to any "virtual substack" and card you want, without using
substacks.
My two cents
Tiemo


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Re: AW: newbie video player questions

[eddie d]

hi eric, thanks (wow, this is a great list)
this looks more complicated then I hoped it would be. I was hoping 
you could just read the system time and have it do stuff according to 
that. (like if time is < 12 go stack morning)

but I'll try this.
were do I put this, in the main stack or in each substack?


eddie




so now I need to figure out how to let it go to a certain substack 
on a specific time.
I thought I make a subtack for 'morning' one for 'afternoon' and 
one for 'evening' and in each stack are a number of cards with a 
videoplayer

any idea on how to do this?

eddie d


The way to master this is to work with seconds and a pending message:

on DisplayRightStack
  local tMidnightSeconds
  -
  put the short date into tMidnightSeconds
  convert tMidnightSeconds to seconds
  -- tDate contains the seconds from today at 0:00
  if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (9*3600) then -- 9 AM

  else if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (14*3600) then -- 2 PM


  else if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (20*3600) then -- 8 PM


  else if the seconds < tMidnightSeconds + (9*3600) then -- before 9 AM
 
   end if
  -
  if "DisplayRightStack" is not in the pendingMessages then
send "DisplayRightStack" to me in 60 seconds
  end if
end DisplayRightStack

See seconds, convert, pendingMessages, send and related topics in the docs.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.




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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Jim Sims]

On Jun 8, 2007, at 2:25 PM, Scott Kane wrote:

 Question is - how are some of you solving this?  I've read the  
archives of the list that I could find discussing this but most of  
the discussion is about using images to fake the pinstripe, which  
bring me back to square one.


If you...
go to the card inspector > colors & patterns > click Background  
( backgroundPattern )
go to Standard Icons > second from last row - next to last standard  
icon is a pinstripe


Card goes pinstripe with that particular version of pinstripe.


That help?

Jim Sims
Custom Software Development
www.EZPZapps.com


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Re: There's no place like Home

[Tereza Snyder]

On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:49 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:



For the Rev Pro, their Home stack would look exactly like their  
company
splash screen. The option to hide the Home Stack would still be  
there, and
obviously you could 'Start New Project' from a Menu, but the result  
would be
the same, your Splash Screen and Working Stack would be cloned from  
your

Home Stack template. How much time would that save you?



GREAT suggestion!

If, as Jacque pointed out, the IDE home stack is functionally the  
same as a 'standalone' stack, this idea has a resonant symmetry for  
me. Include some "standard library' scripts and away we go!


t


--



Tereza Snyder
Califex Software, Inc.


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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Björnke von Gierke]

hi Scott

You can set the stack style or mode to modeless. That makes the stack 
always be in run mode within the rev ide, but you get pinstripes. You 
could check for the environment <> "development", and then set the 
style accordingly. The stripes will use the current OS appearance 
manager, and thus always be correct.


It's a strange concept, I know
Bjoernke

On 08 Jun 2007, at 14:25, Scott Kane wrote:

Question is - how are some of you solving this?  I've read the 
archives of the list that I could find discussing this but most of the 
discussion is about using images to fake the pinstripe, which bring me 
back to square one.


--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.bjoernke.com

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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Re: AW: newbie video player questions

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Eddie,

Le 8 juin 07 à 14:19, eddie d a écrit :

so now I need to figure out how to let it go to a certain substack  
on a specific time.
I thought I make a subtack for 'morning' one for 'afternoon' and  
one for 'evening' and in each stack are a number of cards with a  
videoplayer

any idea on how to do this?

eddie d


The way to master this is to work with seconds and a pending message:

on DisplayRightStack
  local tMidnightSeconds
  -
  put the short date into tMidnightSeconds
  convert tMidnightSeconds to seconds
  -- tDate contains the seconds from today at 0:00
  if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (9*3600) then -- 9 AM

  else if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (14*3600) then -- 2 PM


  else if the seconds >= tMidnightSeconds + (20*3600) then -- 8 PM


  else if the seconds < tMidnightSeconds + (9*3600) then -- before 9 AM
 
   end if
  -
  if "DisplayRightStack" is not in the pendingMessages then
send "DisplayRightStack" to me in 60 seconds
  end if
end DisplayRightStack

See seconds, convert, pendingMessages, send and related topics in the  
docs.


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Scott Kane]

Add some more beta testers... (to dilute their vote)


Sadly that's not an option at this time.  The market is small enough.  But 
thanks as it is something I've considered.


Scott 


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AW: AW: newbie video player questions

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hello Eddie,
as always, there are more than one approach. But if you don't use different
substaks the maintenance and programming is less. You do only need different
substacks, if you need more than one window. Just think about a good name
set (morning_01, morning_02, afternoon_01, ...) of your cards and you can
just go to any "virtual substack" and card you want, without using
substacks.
My two cents
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von eddie d
Gesendet: Freitag, 8. Juni 2007 14:20
An: How to use Revolution
Betreff: Re: AW: newbie video player questions

hello tiemo
thanks for the quick reply.
the script is in the card of each player. there is no button on the 
card. just the onmouse command.
but somehow I just seem to have solved this problem by using a 
specific card number with' go card' and not 'next'.
now it goes to the specified card after playing. (I'll try to find 
how to use random numbers in the manual).
so now I need to figure out how to let it go to a certain substack on 
a specific time.
I thought I make a subtack for 'morning' one for 'afternoon' and one 
for 'evening' and in each stack are a number of cards with a 
videoplayer
any idea on how to do this?

eddie d


>Hi d,
>where did you put your scripts? The playstopped message is sent to the
>player - and will be forwarded to the card and stack - but not to any
button
>(I think). So try to put the playstopped handler into the card script.
>Remember toset the currenttime of player "avond" to zero before you
>start.
>Tiemo
>
>
>
>hello all,
>for severalweeks I am trying to move my video installations from 
>Amiga with Director (yes I know but it worked well up till now but 
>the old machine are starting to fall apart) to Mac (mini) using 
>Revolution.
>I know nothing about programming and very little about scripts.
>basically all I need is for a video to start when someone uses a 
>button or triggers a sensor and I got that to work for some of the 
>works.
>but one installation is more difficult I find out.
>this one needs to play a short (1 sec.) video, according to time of 
>day ( a greeting, taken from television footage) and then randomly 
>select a different video and wait for someone to step on the contact 
>mat an play the next greeting. (see here for what I mean http://
>eddied.nu/html/welkom.html )
>I tried the script below (I didnt even get to the time of day part 
>because I don't know how to do that yet)
>but after playing the first videoclip it just keeps flipping between 
>the next clips. I get a feeling what is wrong but I don't know how to 
>fix it. ( I gues it just goes to the 'go next card' part without 
>waiting for the play command)
>
>
>on mouseUp
>start player "avond"
>end mouseUp
>
>on playStopped
>go next card
>end playStopped
>
>I tried using peopencard and playpause but that didn't do anything.
>
>
>can anyone help me here?
>regards
>eddie
>
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Re: HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[william humphrey]

Add some more beta testers... (to dilute their vote)

On 6/8/07, Scott Kane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi folks,

I have an app in beta (actually a couple, but the Mac one is giving me the
headaches).  Basically the group of Mac users are six people interested in
the field the app aims to assist (it's a database program of reasonable
complexity).  Try as I might I can't get these guys (and girls) to be
reasonable over the pinstripe issue in OSX where the document window should
be white (according to Apples' HIG and as Revolution quite rightly
defaults).  Essentially they are used to seeing applications (some by Apple)
that break this rule and pinstripe the main window.  Now - I can solve this
by putting in a graphic of pinstripes, but then I have the whole issue of
the degree of pinstripe as the users have machines running Jaguar through to
Tiger on PPC's.  They are being really picky over this and as there is no
way (that I know of) of getting Rev to identify which OSX is running so I
have to choose one.  The two running Tiger are the worst offenders (they
even get upset if the light on the icons are shining from slightly the wrong
angle so you can imagine my frustration with them).  Question is - how are
some of you solving this?  I've read the archives of the list that I could
find discussing this but most of the discussion is about using images to
fake the pinstripe, which bring me back to square one.  For the record -
I've shown them the relevant sections of the Apple HIG and they either don't
get it or don't want to.  As my design experience in the past is pretty much
Windows I'd value your opinions (beyond shooting the beta testers )
highly.

Cheers

Scott

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Re: Simple database question: tags

[william humphrey]

You are asking an interesting question. There is lots of information
on database design (which includes schema) but the type of database
design you want is more like what they do on the big search engines.
When google indexes everything and builds a table of keywords -- I
don't even know what they use...

Does anyone?

On 6/7/07, David Bovill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Going to have a go at knocking up a database for RevCode handlers - and I
want to create a database schema for it. I know I want del.icio.us style
tagging, and I'll be indexing them with the language terms used as well as
keywords such as "html", "array", "outline" or "view" etc I'm thinking I
need a database as I know I'll want to experiment a lot with searches -
particularly for handlers with the highest hits... and that seems a bit
hairy to do with arrays and memory based indexes?

So the question is - is there a resource anyone knows of for database
schema's - a sort of design pattern thing for databases for people like me
that know a little but not enough to design one except by trial and error?
Say for folksonomy tagging for a starter?
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HUG, Pinstripes, OSX - probably all "revisisted"

[Scott Kane]

Hi folks,

I have an app in beta (actually a couple, but the Mac one is giving me the 
headaches).  Basically the group of Mac users are six people interested in 
the field the app aims to assist (it's a database program of reasonable 
complexity).  Try as I might I can't get these guys (and girls) to be 
reasonable over the pinstripe issue in OSX where the document window should 
be white (according to Apples' HIG and as Revolution quite rightly 
defaults).  Essentially they are used to seeing applications (some by Apple) 
that break this rule and pinstripe the main window.  Now - I can solve this 
by putting in a graphic of pinstripes, but then I have the whole issue of 
the degree of pinstripe as the users have machines running Jaguar through to 
Tiger on PPC's.  They are being really picky over this and as there is no 
way (that I know of) of getting Rev to identify which OSX is running so I 
have to choose one.  The two running Tiger are the worst offenders (they 
even get upset if the light on the icons are shining from slightly the wrong 
angle so you can imagine my frustration with them).  Question is - how are 
some of you solving this?  I've read the archives of the list that I could 
find discussing this but most of the discussion is about using images to 
fake the pinstripe, which bring me back to square one.  For the record - 
I've shown them the relevant sections of the Apple HIG and they either don't 
get it or don't want to.  As my design experience in the past is pretty much 
Windows I'd value your opinions (beyond shooting the beta testers ) 
highly.


Cheers

Scott 


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Re: AW: newbie video player questions

[eddie d]

hello tiemo
thanks for the quick reply.
the script is in the card of each player. there is no button on the 
card. just the onmouse command.
but somehow I just seem to have solved this problem by using a 
specific card number with' go card' and not 'next'.
now it goes to the specified card after playing. (I'll try to find 
how to use random numbers in the manual).
so now I need to figure out how to let it go to a certain substack on 
a specific time.
I thought I make a subtack for 'morning' one for 'afternoon' and one 
for 'evening' and in each stack are a number of cards with a 
videoplayer

any idea on how to do this?

eddie d



Hi d,
where did you put your scripts? The playstopped message is sent to the
player - and will be forwarded to the card and stack - but not to any button
(I think). So try to put the playstopped handler into the card script.
Remember toset the currenttime of player "avond" to zero before you
start.
Tiemo



hello all,
for severalweeks I am trying to move my video installations from 
Amiga with Director (yes I know but it worked well up till now but 
the old machine are starting to fall apart) to Mac (mini) using 
Revolution.

I know nothing about programming and very little about scripts.
basically all I need is for a video to start when someone uses a 
button or triggers a sensor and I got that to work for some of the 
works.

but one installation is more difficult I find out.
this one needs to play a short (1 sec.) video, according to time of 
day ( a greeting, taken from television footage) and then randomly 
select a different video and wait for someone to step on the contact 
mat an play the next greeting. (see here for what I mean http://

eddied.nu/html/welkom.html )
I tried the script below (I didnt even get to the time of day part 
because I don't know how to do that yet)
but after playing the first videoclip it just keeps flipping between 
the next clips. I get a feeling what is wrong but I don't know how to 
fix it. ( I gues it just goes to the 'go next card' part without 
waiting for the play command)



on mouseUp
   start player "avond"
end mouseUp

   on playStopped
   go next card
end playStopped

I tried using peopencard and playpause but that didn't do anything.


can anyone help me here?
regards
eddie

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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[David Bovill]

On 08/06/07, Robert Brenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


What this requires is that the development and public releases are
branched in the sense of CVS. That is the missing ingredient for Rev
which blocks separating bugfix releases from development of next
version.



And a no-brainer for them. If they want - I'd happily set up subversion,
documentation and integrate their existing bugzilla stuff - just for the
love.
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Re: Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[David Bovill]

Wow! Thaks for the post Chipp - always good to have some hard facts.

2000 out of *150,114* projects - really is that all?  That makes 2/150 - or
less that 1% of projects! I would have guessed it as more like 20%

How many non-open source software projects end up in the scrap heap - more
of less than 1%?


On 08/06/07, Chipp Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On 6/7/07, Peter Alcibiades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> The world is just not the way you are suggesting it is, and it is so
> obviously
> not that way, that there is little point in asserting it is.


A quick  search at sourceforge shows close to 2000 projects with less than
10% activity. So, it appears at least a healthy part of Open Source
projects
may end up exactly as Paul is suggesting.

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AW: newbie video player questions

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi d,
where did you put your scripts? The playstopped message is sent to the
player - and will be forwarded to the card and stack - but not to any button
(I think). So try to put the playstopped handler into the card script.
Remember toset the currenttime of player "avond" to zero before you
start.
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von d
Gesendet: Freitag, 8. Juni 2007 12:37
An: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Betreff: newbie video player questions

hello all,
for severalweeks I am trying to move my video installations from  
Amiga with Director (yes I know but it worked well up till now but  
the old machine are starting to fall apart) to Mac (mini) using  
Revolution.
I know nothing about programming and very little about scripts.
basically all I need is for a video to start when someone uses a  
button or triggers a sensor and I got that to work for some of the  
works.
but one installation is more difficult I find out.
this one needs to play a short (1 sec.) video, according to time of  
day ( a greeting, taken from television footage) and then randomly  
select a different video and wait for someone to step on the contact  
mat an play the next greeting. (see here for what I mean http:// 
eddied.nu/html/welkom.html )
I tried the script below (I didnt even get to the time of day part  
because I don't know how to do that yet)
but after playing the first videoclip it just keeps flipping between  
the next clips. I get a feeling what is wrong but I don't know how to  
fix it. ( I gues it just goes to the 'go next card' part without  
waiting for the play command)


on mouseUp
   start player "avond"
end mouseUp

   on playStopped
   go next card
end playStopped

I tried using peopencard and playpause but that didn't do anything.


can anyone help me here?
regards
eddie 

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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Robert Brenstein]

Let me make the suggestion more explicit in the hope that either its 
merits will be discussed, or it will be torn to pieces:


1. RR should provide feature releases on a regular basis. We pay for them.
2. We do not pay for bugfixes. The manufacturer is just putting 
right what he has done wrong.


Feature releases are not for the purpose of fixing bugs. In fact, 
they will unintentionally introduce them. But there is no such thing 
as a "bug-fix" release. Bug fixes are handled between feature 
releases, and here's how:




What this requires is that the development and public releases are 
branched in the sense of CVS. That is the missing ingredient for Rev 
which blocks separating bugfix releases from development of next 
version.


Robert
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newbie video player questions

[d]

hello all,
for severalweeks I am trying to move my video installations from  
Amiga with Director (yes I know but it worked well up till now but  
the old machine are starting to fall apart) to Mac (mini) using  
Revolution.

I know nothing about programming and very little about scripts.
basically all I need is for a video to start when someone uses a  
button or triggers a sensor and I got that to work for some of the  
works.

but one installation is more difficult I find out.
this one needs to play a short (1 sec.) video, according to time of  
day ( a greeting, taken from television footage) and then randomly  
select a different video and wait for someone to step on the contact  
mat an play the next greeting. (see here for what I mean http:// 
eddied.nu/html/welkom.html )
I tried the script below (I didnt even get to the time of day part  
because I don't know how to do that yet)
but after playing the first videoclip it just keeps flipping between  
the next clips. I get a feeling what is wrong but I don't know how to  
fix it. ( I gues it just goes to the 'go next card' part without  
waiting for the play command)



on mouseUp
  start player "avond"
end mouseUp

  on playStopped
  go next card
end playStopped

I tried using peopencard and playpause but that didn't do anything.


can anyone help me here?
regards
eddie 


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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[David Bovill]

Downloaded - and wow - thats a blast from the past - pretty cute :)

On 08/06/07, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

If you -- or any of the other open source advocates here -- would be

interested in exploring new ground in an open source IDE which runs
under the Rev engine, here's the URL to MetaCard's home where you can
find links to the latest build and to the discussion list we use for
coordinating our work:



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Re: Unexpected quits in 2.8.1

[Luis]

Hiya,

Is the drive set to spin down? Check in the System Prefs.
BTW, I've found that if I have a QT component playing the screensaver  
doesn't come on: This is expected, you don't want the screensaver to  
come on half-way through a movie. Haven't tried it with an  
'invisible' player though.


Cheers,

Luis.

On 8 Jun 2007, at 05:55, Shari wrote:

Is this just going to sleep or a true screen-saver? And what kind  
of monitor?


Joe Wilkins


Both.  It's the built in screensaver that comes with the Macintel  
MacPro.  And it was set to come on after a period of inactivity.  
Apparently, if the stack is doing something without my input, that  
must be considered inactivity, because I'd flip over to the other  
computer, and when I'd come back, the screensaver would be on, and  
the unexpected quit would be hiding behind it.  Every time.  It  
does produce a crash log.


I turned the screensaver off, and so far it's been going almost 3  
hours without quitting.


I have a Sony Trinitron Multiscan 500PS.

Since turning the screensaver off apparently fixed it, then there  
must be some conflict with either the sleep or the screensaver, and  
either my stack or Rev itself.  So I'll turn the screensaver back  
on to get a crash report, and report it.


Shari
--
Windows and Macintosh shareware games
BIackjack Gold
http://www.gypsyware.com
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Imagine a world in which HyperCard had been open sourced 20 years ago?

[Peter Alcibiades]

Chipp rightly points out that there are very many open source projects which 
are started, and then wither.  He points to the 2,000 or so low activity 
projects on SourceForge.  He could also point to a high proportion of the 
distributions on DistroWatch.   

On the other hand, in programming environments, look at Perl, Python, Lua, 
Gtk, Qt, fltk, Fox.   Look at their history.  They haven't fragmented 
into incompatible streams, they haven't withered.  

So what does the evidence prove?  Not much.  It might work, as some 
programming environments evidently do, or it might not, as probably many 
haven't.

Going open source is a bit like writing it in Perl.  People have written stuff 
like this in Perl and its worked.  Others have written stuff like this in 
Perl and failed.  Does this mean we should stick to writing it in C like we 
always have?  No.  It tells you nothing one way or the other.  Do you have 
problems with productivity?  Do you have the feeling that a lot of what you 
are doing would be so much simpler in Perl?  Well, think hard about moving, 
but think the whole thing through before you decide.

It just says, think through the open source question with the same rigor with 
which you would design a program.  Just because its business strategy does 
not mean its easy or doesn't require proper analysis.

For Rev, to go open source is not a simple well defined thing, and does not 
just mean lets have anarchy and give away the engine.  And it does not have a 
predictable defined outcome in terms of profitability that you can forecast 
by looking at other projects.  And, it might not work.  

I can tell you one thing for sure though.  It will not lead to a combination 
of multiple incompatible streams AND a total lack of development. There's no 
evidence this happens.  One or the other, but not both!

Peter
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[OT] NeoOffice

[Richmond Mathewson]

I work with a lot of .doc files in Bulgarian Cyrillic
which have originated with versions of MSWord on
Windows XP.

MSOffice 2004 for Mac screws up the Cyrillic.

NeoOffice opens the document up with the Cyrillic
readable and formatted.

Open Office for Mac is similarly reliable; but it is a
bit clunky because of the X-windowing thingy.

In fact most of my computer clients who use Windows XP
have recently transitioned to Open Office for Windows
and after the initial grumbles tend to prefer it.

I now have a series of clients who have been pursuaded
by myself to buy a legal version of Windows XP (and
this, in itself, in quite an achievement in Bulgaria)
and installed:

Open Office
GIMP
FireFox

and are considerably happier than they were
previously.

Frankly I would rather put up with a few glitches with
Open Source software than a few glitches with
something I have paid for. After all it is FREE.

The transition from P-Shop to GIMP is probably the
mosy awkward; but in the long run efficiency is equal.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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Re: Open Source (was Don't you just wish Rev would do this?)

[Scott Kane]

From: "Bob Warren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Obviously, for a 9-month feature development cycle, there would need to be 
a strictly-defined "cutoff" point so that adequate public beta testing 
could begin (say at 6 months?).


I have to agree with you here that a longer version cycle with bug fixes 
released at shorter intervals would be to my mind preferable.  However I 
suspect there may be some important (to RR) financial reasons for following 
the cycle they currently use.  That in itself may well make their current 
method desirable to us though we may not realize it


Scott 


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