RE: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
I believe SJAS 9 must be still using Tomcat. No reason for Sun to change the
Servlet/JSP container. Agree?
I can not comment about the stability of SJAS 9 as I am still using EJB2 - I
did a quick try and realize I have to upgrade my EJB facility to EJB3. Would
appreciate your findings!
Dong
-Original Message-
From: Andre Prasetya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 8:45 PM
To: Tomcat Users List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Is SJAS 9 really using tomcat inside ? its already 2.5 and the behaviour is
slightly different like the getContextPath(), and other function which
returns null at tomcat 5.5 has a return value at SJAS 9.
Log log = Utility.getLogger(this);
ServletContext context = evt.getServletContext();
log.info("servlet context name : " + context.getServletContextName()
);
log.info("server info : " + context.getServerInfo());
log.info("servlet api " + context.getMajorVersion() + '.' +
context.getMinorVersion());
On 12/7/06, JiaDong Huang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As far as I know, JBoss/SunOne are all bundling Tomcat inside.
>
> Not sure where the feeling of "the number of Tomcat users to attenuate
> over
> time" comes from.
>
> Dong
>
> -Original Message-
> From: epyonne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 3:07 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
>
> Totally agree. PHP is no doubt an excellent tool, but primarily for
> hobbyists or standalone type of deployment. On the other hand, Java is
> widely used on enterprise application. If you open up the hood and look,
> all
> the expensive application like WebSphere are running Tomcat inside.
>
> epy.
>
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "Leon Rosenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Tomcat Users List"
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
>
>
> > On 12/6/06, Peter Crowther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and can be
> > > > installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont undertand
> > > > What is causing the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time?
> > >
> > > Ancient history, I know, but I'll respond anyway.
> > >
> > > A Model T Ford is a perfectly good car. However, if Ford don't
> innovate
> > > and other car manufacturers do, people buying new cars will switch
> away
> > > from Ford to vehicles that are cheaper, faster, have lower fuel costs
> or
> > > innovations like a roof.
> > >
> > > Tomcat and JSP is a perfectly good model for web
> applications. However,
> > > if the Java community and the Tomcat developers don't innovate and
> other
> > > communities do (for example the PHP community and Microsoft), people
> > > deploying new applications will switch away from Tomcat and JSP to
> > > systems that are cheaper, faster to develop, have lower
> hosting/running
> > > costs or innovations like per-webapp memory and CPU throttling.
> > >
> > > The issue is not that Tomcat is bad in absolute terms, it's simply
> that
> > > other communities are out-innovating it so it's becoming a (perceived)
> > > poorer *relative* choice.
> >
> > I'd too like to know which communities are "out-innovating" java?
> > To stay in you example, comparing php (or ruby for this matter) to
> > java is like comparing bicycles with cars.
> > Sure its fun to make a ride on sunday. Sure it's ok to bike to the
> > office on a sunny day, if the office is 30 minutes away.
> > But trying to deliver a fridge to the customer with a bike is rather
> stupid.
> >
> > regards
> > Leon
> >
> > Btw. I'm ashamed that I don't know it, but does C# has a similar
> > concept to ThreadLocals?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > - Peter
> > >
> > > -
> > > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
> > -
> > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomca
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
On 12/7/06, Peter Crowther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Leon Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I'd too like to know which communities are "out-innovating" java? My first like-for-like example would be .Net - and for those who don't think this is a community compared to Java, note that both have large companies supporting them. To anticipate an argument, comparing Java to PHP or Ruby simply "because it's not Microsoft" is specious. One should compare like with like. The original posters question was about php, that's why i was talking about php (and ruby since its pretty similar). Comparing Java and .NET is natural, but I fear it's hard to make out great differences between both concerning development times or hosting costs. I would say that you can implement each project with both Java and .NET in same time and same staff costs if you'd knew both equally well. So you just should pick the one that fits the project, the customer's wishes and requirements better and the one you know better. Generally speaking I think that the fastest path is the one you know best. My second like-for-not-like community would be PHP. It's a community that doesn't have major corporate backing, but the rate of innovation of packages in the PHP world is very high indeed. I feel it's not necessarily ideal for large sites - where this thread started - due to its present implementation, but it's certainly good for small to medium sites. Again, you will deliver best performance with tools you know best. But for non-functional requirements like performance, stability, scalability, robustness, extensibility, flexibility, manageability and so on php is not really an alternative. > To stay in you example, comparing php (or ruby for this matter) to > java is like comparing bicycles with cars. > Sure its fun to make a ride on sunday. Sure it's ok to bike to the > office on a sunny day, if the office is 30 minutes away. > But trying to deliver a fridge to the customer with a bike is > rather stupid. But realising that not everybody requires a 4-seater car, and that (say) a Smart car is relevant, is *precisely* an example of out-innovation. Disagreed with the example since the bicycle misses the critical parts of the car - i.e. the motor. You can build a car-looking bike, but without a motor it will stay a bike. > Btw. I'm ashamed that I don't know it, but does C# has a similar > concept to ThreadLocals? Yes, since 1.0. http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/6sby1byh(VS.80).aspx Thank ;-) Good to know. - Peter regards Leon - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
> From: Leon Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I'd too like to know which communities are "out-innovating" java? My first like-for-like example would be .Net - and for those who don't think this is a community compared to Java, note that both have large companies supporting them. To anticipate an argument, comparing Java to PHP or Ruby simply "because it's not Microsoft" is specious. One should compare like with like. My second like-for-not-like community would be PHP. It's a community that doesn't have major corporate backing, but the rate of innovation of packages in the PHP world is very high indeed. I feel it's not necessarily ideal for large sites - where this thread started - due to its present implementation, but it's certainly good for small to medium sites. > To stay in you example, comparing php (or ruby for this matter) to > java is like comparing bicycles with cars. > Sure its fun to make a ride on sunday. Sure it's ok to bike to the > office on a sunny day, if the office is 30 minutes away. > But trying to deliver a fridge to the customer with a bike is > rather stupid. But realising that not everybody requires a 4-seater car, and that (say) a Smart car is relevant, is *precisely* an example of out-innovation. > Btw. I'm ashamed that I don't know it, but does C# has a similar > concept to ThreadLocals? Yes, since 1.0. http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/6sby1byh(VS.80).aspx - Peter - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Is SJAS 9 really using tomcat inside ? its already 2.5 and the behaviour is
slightly different like the getContextPath(), and other function which
returns null at tomcat 5.5 has a return value at SJAS 9.
Log log = Utility.getLogger(this);
ServletContext context = evt.getServletContext();
log.info("servlet context name : " + context.getServletContextName()
);
log.info("server info : " + context.getServerInfo());
log.info("servlet api " + context.getMajorVersion() + '.' +
context.getMinorVersion());
On 12/7/06, JiaDong Huang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As far as I know, JBoss/SunOne are all bundling Tomcat inside.
Not sure where the feeling of "the number of Tomcat users to attenuate
over
time" comes from.
Dong
-Original Message-
From: epyonne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 3:07 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Totally agree. PHP is no doubt an excellent tool, but primarily for
hobbyists or standalone type of deployment. On the other hand, Java is
widely used on enterprise application. If you open up the hood and look,
all
the expensive application like WebSphere are running Tomcat inside.
epy.
- Original Message -
From: "Leon Rosenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tomcat Users List"
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
> On 12/6/06, Peter Crowther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and can be
> > > installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont undertand
> > > What is causing the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time?
> >
> > Ancient history, I know, but I'll respond anyway.
> >
> > A Model T Ford is a perfectly good car. However, if Ford don't
innovate
> > and other car manufacturers do, people buying new cars will switch
away
> > from Ford to vehicles that are cheaper, faster, have lower fuel costs
or
> > innovations like a roof.
> >
> > Tomcat and JSP is a perfectly good model for web
applications. However,
> > if the Java community and the Tomcat developers don't innovate and
other
> > communities do (for example the PHP community and Microsoft), people
> > deploying new applications will switch away from Tomcat and JSP to
> > systems that are cheaper, faster to develop, have lower
hosting/running
> > costs or innovations like per-webapp memory and CPU throttling.
> >
> > The issue is not that Tomcat is bad in absolute terms, it's simply
that
> > other communities are out-innovating it so it's becoming a (perceived)
> > poorer *relative* choice.
>
> I'd too like to know which communities are "out-innovating" java?
> To stay in you example, comparing php (or ruby for this matter) to
> java is like comparing bicycles with cars.
> Sure its fun to make a ride on sunday. Sure it's ok to bike to the
> office on a sunny day, if the office is 30 minutes away.
> But trying to deliver a fridge to the customer with a bike is rather
stupid.
>
> regards
> Leon
>
> Btw. I'm ashamed that I don't know it, but does C# has a similar
> concept to ThreadLocals?
>
>
> >
> > - Peter
> >
> > -
> > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
> -
> To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
-
To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
-Andre-
PCs are like air conditioner, if you open Windows, they don't work
RE: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
As far as I know, JBoss/SunOne are all bundling Tomcat inside. Not sure where the feeling of "the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time" comes from. Dong -Original Message- From: epyonne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 3:07 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites Totally agree. PHP is no doubt an excellent tool, but primarily for hobbyists or standalone type of deployment. On the other hand, Java is widely used on enterprise application. If you open up the hood and look, all the expensive application like WebSphere are running Tomcat inside. epy. - Original Message - From: "Leon Rosenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites > On 12/6/06, Peter Crowther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and can be > > > installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont undertand > > > What is causing the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time? > > > > Ancient history, I know, but I'll respond anyway. > > > > A Model T Ford is a perfectly good car. However, if Ford don't innovate > > and other car manufacturers do, people buying new cars will switch away > > from Ford to vehicles that are cheaper, faster, have lower fuel costs or > > innovations like a roof. > > > > Tomcat and JSP is a perfectly good model for web applications. However, > > if the Java community and the Tomcat developers don't innovate and other > > communities do (for example the PHP community and Microsoft), people > > deploying new applications will switch away from Tomcat and JSP to > > systems that are cheaper, faster to develop, have lower hosting/running > > costs or innovations like per-webapp memory and CPU throttling. > > > > The issue is not that Tomcat is bad in absolute terms, it's simply that > > other communities are out-innovating it so it's becoming a (perceived) > > poorer *relative* choice. > > I'd too like to know which communities are "out-innovating" java? > To stay in you example, comparing php (or ruby for this matter) to > java is like comparing bicycles with cars. > Sure its fun to make a ride on sunday. Sure it's ok to bike to the > office on a sunny day, if the office is 30 minutes away. > But trying to deliver a fridge to the customer with a bike is rather stupid. > > regards > Leon > > Btw. I'm ashamed that I don't know it, but does C# has a similar > concept to ThreadLocals? > > > > > > - Peter > > > > - > > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > - > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Totally agree. PHP is no doubt an excellent tool, but primarily for hobbyists or standalone type of deployment. On the other hand, Java is widely used on enterprise application. If you open up the hood and look, all the expensive application like WebSphere are running Tomcat inside. epy. - Original Message - From: "Leon Rosenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites > On 12/6/06, Peter Crowther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and can be > > > installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont undertand > > > What is causing the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time? > > > > Ancient history, I know, but I'll respond anyway. > > > > A Model T Ford is a perfectly good car. However, if Ford don't innovate > > and other car manufacturers do, people buying new cars will switch away > > from Ford to vehicles that are cheaper, faster, have lower fuel costs or > > innovations like a roof. > > > > Tomcat and JSP is a perfectly good model for web applications. However, > > if the Java community and the Tomcat developers don't innovate and other > > communities do (for example the PHP community and Microsoft), people > > deploying new applications will switch away from Tomcat and JSP to > > systems that are cheaper, faster to develop, have lower hosting/running > > costs or innovations like per-webapp memory and CPU throttling. > > > > The issue is not that Tomcat is bad in absolute terms, it's simply that > > other communities are out-innovating it so it's becoming a (perceived) > > poorer *relative* choice. > > I'd too like to know which communities are "out-innovating" java? > To stay in you example, comparing php (or ruby for this matter) to > java is like comparing bicycles with cars. > Sure its fun to make a ride on sunday. Sure it's ok to bike to the > office on a sunny day, if the office is 30 minutes away. > But trying to deliver a fridge to the customer with a bike is rather stupid. > > regards > Leon > > Btw. I'm ashamed that I don't know it, but does C# has a similar > concept to ThreadLocals? > > > > > > - Peter > > > > - > > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > - > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Yes, of course. But if you've got a trailer, why not use it with your car ?!?! Pierre, "I hope we're not too much O/T" -- "L'une des raisons pour lesquelles la vie est complexe C'est qu'elle a une partie réelle et une partie imaginaire."
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 4:27 pm, Leon Rosenberg wrote: > I'd too like to know which communities are "out-innovating" java? > To stay in you example, comparing php (or ruby for this matter) to > java is like comparing bicycles with cars. > Sure its fun to make a ride on sunday. Sure it's ok to bike to the > office on a sunny day, if the office is 30 minutes away. > But trying to deliver a fridge to the customer with a bike is rather stupid. > http://www.bikesatwork.com/hauling-cargo-by-bike/moving-a-refrigerator.html - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
On 12/6/06, Peter Crowther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and can be > installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont undertand > What is causing the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time? Ancient history, I know, but I'll respond anyway. A Model T Ford is a perfectly good car. However, if Ford don't innovate and other car manufacturers do, people buying new cars will switch away from Ford to vehicles that are cheaper, faster, have lower fuel costs or innovations like a roof. Tomcat and JSP is a perfectly good model for web applications. However, if the Java community and the Tomcat developers don't innovate and other communities do (for example the PHP community and Microsoft), people deploying new applications will switch away from Tomcat and JSP to systems that are cheaper, faster to develop, have lower hosting/running costs or innovations like per-webapp memory and CPU throttling. The issue is not that Tomcat is bad in absolute terms, it's simply that other communities are out-innovating it so it's becoming a (perceived) poorer *relative* choice. I'd too like to know which communities are "out-innovating" java? To stay in you example, comparing php (or ruby for this matter) to java is like comparing bicycles with cars. Sure its fun to make a ride on sunday. Sure it's ok to bike to the office on a sunny day, if the office is 30 minutes away. But trying to deliver a fridge to the customer with a bike is rather stupid. regards Leon Btw. I'm ashamed that I don't know it, but does C# has a similar concept to ThreadLocals? - Peter - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
- Original Message >>From: Peter Crowther [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Tomcat and JSP is a perfectly good model for web applications. However, >>if the Java community and the Tomcat developers don't innovate and other >>communities do (for example the PHP community and Microsoft), people >>deploying new applications will switch away from Tomcat and JSP to >>systems that are cheaper, faster to develop, have lower hosting/running >>costs or innovations like per-webapp memory and CPU throttling. >>The issue is not that Tomcat is bad in absolute terms, it's simply that >>other communities are out-innovating it so it's becoming a (perceived) >>poorer *relative* choice. >>- Peter I'm not trying to agree or disagree, but sincerely want to know what systems are 1) cheaper 2) faster to develop and what features do they have that make them so. I don't have knowledge of PHP, but I think Java, JSP/JSTL combined with XML and XSLT/XPath are versatile in comparison to other languages, and these languages are constantly evolving - faster than I can memorize them ;-( I've read in a few books that Java5 has evolved considerably from its previous versions. There's a nice "before" and "after" code snippets that show what the changes are: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/releases/j2se15/ I've been exposed to some other languages like ColdFusion, Pega, (Old ASP and Old VB), Javascript but don't find them as versatile as Java but this was a while ago, things could have changed by now. I find learning Java is tough, still struggling with it, but I want to focus on one language and learn it properly than switching between languages. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
> From: Martin Gainty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and can be > installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont undertand > What is causing the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time? Ancient history, I know, but I'll respond anyway. A Model T Ford is a perfectly good car. However, if Ford don't innovate and other car manufacturers do, people buying new cars will switch away from Ford to vehicles that are cheaper, faster, have lower fuel costs or innovations like a roof. Tomcat and JSP is a perfectly good model for web applications. However, if the Java community and the Tomcat developers don't innovate and other communities do (for example the PHP community and Microsoft), people deploying new applications will switch away from Tomcat and JSP to systems that are cheaper, faster to develop, have lower hosting/running costs or innovations like per-webapp memory and CPU throttling. The issue is not that Tomcat is bad in absolute terms, it's simply that other communities are out-innovating it so it's becoming a (perceived) poorer *relative* choice. - Peter - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
In regards to the aspects about the architecture I believe that the choice of using JSP and Java technology is a good one for you and your customers. The reason is the possibility for using Web services, services and in the hopefully near future Semantic Web technologies. Its a fact that it is a scaleable solution with perspective for further development of the site/sites. And what about portals/portlets? I have no experience with PHP - so is the above possible with PHP? Lars Nielsen Lind Andrew Miehs skrev: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear List, JSP is designed to be used for Websites. Depending what you do with it, changes where it can be used for a Large Web Site. As for the questions. 1a. Who cares if JSP is not supported by web hosting companies - Large web sites have their own infrastructure. 1b. Both are programming languages - both have strengths and weaknesses - you can do the same thing with both - you could even use plain 'c' if you feel like it. Use which ever you are most comfortable with. 2. How many users a 'language' has is irrelevant. Glad to see you are quoting informative sources. :-) Architecture is the issue - not language. Andrew On 30/11/2006, at 3:11 PM, John Mok wrote: 1a. JSP is not supported by many web hosting companies or is only supported in more expensive dedicated server plans. In contrast, open source alternatives such as php is well-supported by web hosting companies. -> Result: most small and medium sized websites/webapps that do not need a dedicated server use php. 1b. JSP has many great features. But php is also very powerful and has some capabilities that jsp doesn't have. -> Result: some heavy-traffic websites/webapps that require dedicated servers use jsp. Some others use php (eg. yahoo [http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963937.html]). -> 2. There are more php users than jsp users. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFbuqNW126qUNSzvURAmPTAJ9p2ShOSlLfLZXIbxRAzdNNEmuRJQCdG6i0 X6KSGAP8rAUERmUS7mpgVKg= =Qlh7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
>> With JSPs, it was always: edit, save, deploy to >>Tomcat, go to test launcher page, then click on link/button to launch >>the modified page (refresh didn't always cause a recompile, don't know >>if that was a browser or Tomcat (or Apache->Tomcat) issue). Remy is right, with JSPs also it's possible to instantly see your changes by simply refreshing your browser. I would like to add though that this purely depends on how your project is set up. You can have Tomcat point to the folder which contains the *source code* this is what allows one to instantaneously see the changes made to a JSP page. Do this in the development environment. Many (including myself) thought that we have to deploy all source files from source folder to Tomcat's webapps folder to see the changes made to the JSP. You can easily avoid this deploy cycle by simply pointing Tomcat to the source folder either in your app's context file which is located at: \apache-tomcat-5.5.12\conf\Catalina\localhost OR inside Host configuration in server.xml Deploy cycle should only be reserved for creating WAR files for either staging, production environment and not for seeing changes made to JSPs in development environment. This will save a lot of time and clicks and changes to JSPs can be seen instantaneously simply by refreshing your browser. One thing about JSPs are they are a bit slower since they get compiled on the first call. This can be solved by pre-compiling JSPs. There's good documentation on how to pre-compile JSPs with ANT on this site. Another disadvantage is that JSPs tend to be slower when there's a lot of hard-coded text right inside the JSP itself (HTML + documentation). To make JSPs faster I put large documents inside an XML file and then read the contents of the XML file inside the JSP, with JSTL tags. But, I think many people read documentation from the database or some kind of a MVC framework and html is dynamically generated. Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
On 11/30/06, Nelson, Tracy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: With PHP, you tend to have two windows open: editor and browser. Change the page in the editor, save the change, hit refresh on the browser: boom, there's your change. You can do that with JSP too (including taglibs which can be written as tag files which look just like JSPs - and are editable in place in the same way too). However, I am not saying JSP is a very good spec or anything like that, as it is needlessly complicated. Most of all, it's probably a matter of complexity as others said: when doing a Java project, people never seem to do a two JSP webapp (without taglibs, etc). Rémy - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Nelson, Tracy wrote: ... taglibs and other supporting classes in Java rather than use JavaScript. Testing JSPs also seems to take longer, although a good IDE should make it fast (I've never used an IDE that had good JSP support). With PHP, Have you tried Eclipse? Not perfect, but pretty good; it uses its own embedded tomcat server for debugging, so the deploy cycle doesn't come into play. Dave - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
| From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Thursday, 30 November, 2006 09:25 | | The bottom line for the whole PHP versus Java thing for me is perceived | complexity of a project. If I want it done super fast and super simple, | I'll go for PHP. If I want to actually architect something, then I'll | turn to Java. I think Chris has put his finger on the real issue here. I've been on both PHP and JSP projects, and the PHP projects typically had a prototype up and running (at least demo-able) in days if not hours. This was because the bulk of the PHP developers were "web developers", who created their HTML first, then added code to it (often as much JavaScript as PHP). PHP development is very amenable to this style of development. In contrast, the JSP projects were typically stocked with Java developers, who sat down and analyzed the requirements and worked out a design before they wrote anything. They also tended to write taglibs and other supporting classes in Java rather than use JavaScript. Testing JSPs also seems to take longer, although a good IDE should make it fast (I've never used an IDE that had good JSP support). With PHP, you tend to have two windows open: editor and browser. Change the page in the editor, save the change, hit refresh on the browser: boom, there's your change. With JSPs, it was always: edit, save, deploy to Tomcat, go to test launcher page, then click on link/button to launch the modified page (refresh didn't always cause a recompile, don't know if that was a browser or Tomcat (or Apache->Tomcat) issue). Again, as Chris said, it's an issue of project complexity. I haven't met any slap-something-together-quick, shoot-from-the-hip Java developers, and precious few design-before-you-build PHP coders. I think PHP is superior in the fast-paced web site design market, where the ability to make radical changes in a site's layout or navigation is critical. JSPs seem more at home in the web application market, where stability and reliability are paramount. | My experience has been that as PHP projects grow, they | become very difficult to maintain. Not so (or, at least, not so much!) | with Java. I think this is more of a function of the development team's attitude. Like I said, PHP coders think nothing of throwing away large chunks of code, whereas JSP developers tend to think in terms of reuse. There's nothing inherent in PHP that makes it difficult to maintain, but (IME) they are written to be disposable. Many web sites want a new look and feel every six months to a year, so the site gets entirely rewritten. They also tend to be static, so once they're up and working they don't get touched. The information contained in this message is confidential proprietary property of FACTS/Nelnet Business Solutions. Any reproduction, forwarding, or copying without the express permission of FACTS/Nelnet Business Solutions is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail. - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin, Martin Gainty wrote: > This is going O/T so feel free to ping me off the list > > These current graphs may help if you want to gage PHP assignments > http://mshiltonj.com/sm/categories/languages_p-z/ > then compare to Java assignments > http://mshiltonj.com/sm/categories/languages_a-m/ Wow... Java seems to enjoy a nice margin over the others. My experience has been that Java developers are not that much in demand -- at least not in the DC area. > Can you show how a simle math routine or for loop routne in a script > language PHP performs faster than a language java? I believe that PHP is not entirely interpreted, at least not all the time. It's unclear to me what Zend brings to the table, honestly. I think what you'll find is that most web apps are very simple, and that the performance characteristics of each language are far outweighed by the performance of network connections (both HTTP and database) as well as any database activity that you are doing in your app. > Can you show how PHP supports ? Yeah, PHP doesn't really do threads. You have to rely on the web server's request processing configuration for concurrency. One advantage of PHP is that pretty much everything is isolated (at least, if you use apache httpd and the prefork MPM), so you generally need not worry about synchronization, etc. -- at least not for objects and such. > Can you show how PHP supports inheritance, polymorphism and encapsulation? I don't think any of that is available in PHP. They do have objects, but they are loosely typed, which sort of blurs definition of "true" OO. Still, I maintain that most webapps are stupid simple, and many don't even write their own code outside of CRUD functions. Since those types of things don't require you to know anything about OO, many developers can get away without an OO language. > Can you show how PHP supports all Java scope (request/page and application)? The request scope /does/ exist, and the page scope implicitly exists since a PHP script can be thought of a one big method (kinda like a vanilla JSP page). The application scope pretty much does not exist. There is a "global" scope, but I am unclear as to the behavior across multiple instances of the PHP engine... for instance, does each script get a separate copy of the "global" variable? Probably. Does that make it not really a global variable? I suppose that depends on your point of view. The bottom line for the whole PHP versus Java thing for me is perceived complexity of a project. If I want it done super fast and super simple, I'll go for PHP. If I want to actually architect something, then I'll turn to Java. My experience has been that as PHP projects grow, they become very difficult to maintain. Not so (or, at least, not so much!) with Java. Just my .02. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFbve59CaO5/Lv0PARAtL5AKCnv/4r+x3IwHciEPqCSc+HlUu64wCffgNw x1TiKimfohpVEURjN6tAcQI= =b1TS -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
I am a jsp developer ,too, but honestly not a j2ee guru. I don't see any reason that jsp/j2ee will have a bad potential in the future. However, by the time jsf is mature, jsp users may be gradually transformed to jsf/ajax developers which is a modern trend in the future. jsp/jsf has one great advantage in using JAVA as mid-tier or business logic language. Consequently the combination of jsp/jsf/j2ee is best suited for enterprise level, multi-tier webapps while PHP is versatile (but not the best) and easy maintenance. It depends on the choice between convenience and power. In addition, the "catch" for jsp/jsf/j2ee is "huge learning carve" to get the most out of jsp/jsf. That's the main reason why PHP developers are more common than j2ee developers. On 11/30/06, Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Good Morning Jack- > As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and > can be installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont > undertand > What is causing the number of Tomcat users to > attenuate over time? > M Hello, My logic is: 1a. JSP is not supported by many web hosting companies or is only supported in more expensive dedicated server plans. In contrast, open source alternatives such as php is well-supported by web hosting companies. -> Result: most small and medium sized websites/webapps that do not need a dedicated server use php. 1b. JSP has many great features. But php is also very powerful and has some capabilities that jsp doesn't have. -> Result: some heavy-traffic websites/webapps that require dedicated servers use jsp. Some others use php (eg. yahoo [http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963937.html]). -> 2. There are more php users than jsp users. -> 3. More people get involved in the development and support of php, while fewer people get involved in the development and support of jsp/tomcat. -> Result 1: PHP evolves in a faster pace. Some great features that only jsp supports originally may start to be supported by php. -> Result 2: More (open source) tools/programs are built on top of php. For example, open-source software, phpbb, is used to run many heavy traffic forums such as forums.mozillazine.org. -> 4. As php becomes more powerful and there are more php tools/programs, more people switch to it. So, we go back to point 2 and the circulation continues. -> 5. The number of jsp users becomes smaller. -> 6. Fewer people will get involved in the development and support of jsp/tomcat and so the future of jsp/tomcat will become less certain. I point this out because i like jsp and i am concerned about its future. I am not sure if my logic is correct. Correct me if you find any mistakes. ___ YM - 離線訊息 就算你沒有上網，你的朋友仍可以留下訊息給你，當你上網時就能立即看到，任何說話都冇走失。 http://messenger.yahoo.com.hk - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear List, JSP is designed to be used for Websites. Depending what you do with it, changes where it can be used for a Large Web Site. As for the questions. 1a. Who cares if JSP is not supported by web hosting companies - Large web sites have their own infrastructure. 1b. Both are programming languages - both have strengths and weaknesses - you can do the same thing with both - you could even use plain 'c' if you feel like it. Use which ever you are most comfortable with. 2. How many users a 'language' has is irrelevant. Glad to see you are quoting informative sources. :-) Architecture is the issue - not language. Andrew On 30/11/2006, at 3:11 PM, John Mok wrote: 1a. JSP is not supported by many web hosting companies or is only supported in more expensive dedicated server plans. In contrast, open source alternatives such as php is well-supported by web hosting companies. -> Result: most small and medium sized websites/webapps that do not need a dedicated server use php. 1b. JSP has many great features. But php is also very powerful and has some capabilities that jsp doesn't have. -> Result: some heavy-traffic websites/webapps that require dedicated servers use jsp. Some others use php (eg. yahoo [http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963937.html]). -> 2. There are more php users than jsp users. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFbuqNW126qUNSzvURAmPTAJ9p2ShOSlLfLZXIbxRAzdNNEmuRJQCdG6i0 X6KSGAP8rAUERmUS7mpgVKg= =Qlh7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Jack wrote: > > Hello, > > My logic is: > > 1a. JSP is not supported by many web hosting companies > or is only supported in more expensive dedicated > server plans. In contrast, open source alternatives > such as php is well-supported by web hosting > companies. > -> Result: most small and medium sized > websites/webapps that do not need a dedicated server > use php. > 1b. JSP has many great features. But php is also very > powerful and has some capabilities that jsp doesn't > have. > -> Result: some heavy-traffic websites/webapps that > require dedicated servers use jsp. Some others use php > (eg. yahoo > [http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963937.html]). > -> 2. There are more php users than jsp users. More website uses php -> more php users than jsp? One HSBC website alone counts millions of Java Servlet/JSP users. How about another mission-critical website in Hong Kong, PPS? Thus, as Java technology is the backbone of mission-critical services, the support and development will continue. John Mok - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
This is going O/T so feel free to ping me off the list These current graphs may help if you want to gage PHP assignments http://mshiltonj.com/sm/categories/languages_p-z/ then compare to Java assignments http://mshiltonj.com/sm/categories/languages_a-m/ Can you show how a simle math routine or for loop routne in a script language PHP performs faster than a language java? Can you show how PHP supports ? Can you show how PHP supports inheritance,polymorphism and encapsulation? Can you show how PHP supports all Java scope (request/page and application)? Thanks, M- This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents - Original Message - From: "Jack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:35 AM Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites >> Good Morning Jack- >> As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and >> can be installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont >> undertand >> What is causing the number of Tomcat users to >> attenuate over time? >> M > > Hello, > > My logic is: > > 1a. JSP is not supported by many web hosting companies > or is only supported in more expensive dedicated > server plans. In contrast, open source alternatives > such as php is well-supported by web hosting > companies. > -> Result: most small and medium sized > websites/webapps that do not need a dedicated server > use php. > 1b. JSP has many great features. But php is also very > powerful and has some capabilities that jsp doesn't > have. > -> Result: some heavy-traffic websites/webapps that > require dedicated servers use jsp. Some others use php > (eg. yahoo > [http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963937.html]). >-> 2. There are more php users than jsp users. > -> 3. More people get involved in the > development and support of php, while fewer people get > involved in the development and support of jsp/tomcat. >-> Result 1: PHP evolves in a faster pace. > Some great features that only jsp supports originally > may start to be supported by php. >-> Result 2: More (open source) tools/programs > are built on top of php. For example, open-source > software, phpbb, is used to run many heavy traffic > forums such as forums.mozillazine.org. > -> 4. As php becomes more powerful and there > are more php tools/programs, more people switch to it. > So, we go back to point 2 and the circulation > continues. >-> 5. The number of jsp users becomes > smaller. > -> 6. Fewer people will get involved in > the development and support of jsp/tomcat and so the > future of jsp/tomcat will become less certain. > > I point this out because i like jsp and i am concerned > about its future. I am not sure if my logic is > correct. Correct me if you find any mistakes. > > > ___ > YM - 離線訊息 > 就算你沒有上網，你的朋友仍可以留下訊息給你，當你上網時就能立即看到，任何說話都冇走失。 > http://messenger.yahoo.com.hk > > - > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
> Good Morning Jack- > As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and > can be installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont > undertand > What is causing the number of Tomcat users to > attenuate over time? > M Hello, My logic is: 1a. JSP is not supported by many web hosting companies or is only supported in more expensive dedicated server plans. In contrast, open source alternatives such as php is well-supported by web hosting companies. -> Result: most small and medium sized websites/webapps that do not need a dedicated server use php. 1b. JSP has many great features. But php is also very powerful and has some capabilities that jsp doesn't have. -> Result: some heavy-traffic websites/webapps that require dedicated servers use jsp. Some others use php (eg. yahoo [http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963937.html]). -> 2. There are more php users than jsp users. -> 3. More people get involved in the development and support of php, while fewer people get involved in the development and support of jsp/tomcat. -> Result 1: PHP evolves in a faster pace. Some great features that only jsp supports originally may start to be supported by php. -> Result 2: More (open source) tools/programs are built on top of php. For example, open-source software, phpbb, is used to run many heavy traffic forums such as forums.mozillazine.org. -> 4. As php becomes more powerful and there are more php tools/programs, more people switch to it. So, we go back to point 2 and the circulation continues. -> 5. The number of jsp users becomes smaller. -> 6. Fewer people will get involved in the development and support of jsp/tomcat and so the future of jsp/tomcat will become less certain. I point this out because i like jsp and i am concerned about its future. I am not sure if my logic is correct. Correct me if you find any mistakes. ___ YM - 離線訊息 就算你沒有上網，你的朋友仍可以留下訊息給你，當你上網時就能立即看到，任何說話都冇走失。 http://messenger.yahoo.com.hk - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Yup, I don't think there's anything Tomcat could do to make *small cost* hosting companies to embrace Tomcat. Many big businesses are using Tomcat. But, when it comes to smaller hosting companies I've come accross only one host in the US who supports Tomcat with MySQL everyone else only support JSP and MySQL and PHP. You'll find some threads on this here if you search for JSP Hosting, it would be nice if all hosts mentioned there support Tomcat and not just JSP. But it's entirely up to the hosting companies. http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?forumID=45&threadID=635513 http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?forumID=45&threadID=573893 Many of them simply support JSP and don't allow uploading other JAR or WAR files. This limits an application significantly when it grows. Plus deploying a WAR file is much easier. So, it's really up to the hosting companies to install Tomcat on the backend. - Original Message From: Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tomcat Users List Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:05:22 AM Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites Good Morning Jack- As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and can be installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont undertand What is causing the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time? M This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents - Original Message - From: "Jack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:20 AM Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites > Hello all, > > Anyone know if tomcat's roadmap includes any plans to > make tomcat more web hosting friendly? If not, i think > the tomcat development team should consider about it, > because this problem is seriously constraining the > popularity of jsp and it forces web developers who > like jsp to consider other server side languages. As > the number of jsp users becomes smaller, fewer people > will get involved in the development and support of > tomcat and so the future of tomcat will become less > certain. JSP has many great features and I think it > will be a lot more popular if it's better supported by > web hosting companies. > > Jack > > > ___ > YM - 離線訊息 > 就算你沒有上網，你的朋友仍可以留下訊息給你，當你上網時就能立即看到，任何說話都冇走失。 > http://messenger.yahoo.com.hk > > - > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Good Morning Jack- As Tomcat is OpenSource (and not proprietary) and can be installed on any OS (vs just 1) I dont undertand What is causing the number of Tomcat users to attenuate over time? M This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it or its contents - Original Message - From: "Jack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:20 AM Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites > Hello all, > > Anyone know if tomcat's roadmap includes any plans to > make tomcat more web hosting friendly? If not, i think > the tomcat development team should consider about it, > because this problem is seriously constraining the > popularity of jsp and it forces web developers who > like jsp to consider other server side languages. As > the number of jsp users becomes smaller, fewer people > will get involved in the development and support of > tomcat and so the future of tomcat will become less > certain. JSP has many great features and I think it > will be a lot more popular if it's better supported by > web hosting companies. > > Jack > > > ___ > YM - 離線訊息 > 就算你沒有上網，你的朋友仍可以留下訊息給你，當你上網時就能立即看到，任何說話都冇走失。 > http://messenger.yahoo.com.hk > > - > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Hello all, Anyone know if tomcat's roadmap includes any plans to make tomcat more web hosting friendly? If not, i think the tomcat development team should consider about it, because this problem is seriously constraining the popularity of jsp and it forces web developers who like jsp to consider other server side languages. As the number of jsp users becomes smaller, fewer people will get involved in the development and support of tomcat and so the future of tomcat will become less certain. JSP has many great features and I think it will be a lot more popular if it's better supported by web hosting companies. Jack ___ YM - 離線訊息 就算你沒有上網，你的朋友仍可以留下訊息給你，當你上網時就能立即看到，任何說話都冇走失。 http://messenger.yahoo.com.hk - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Well, I don't know where you live, but why you don't consider other provider out of where you live? About PHP or JSP... for sure is much faster develop a web page with PHP, but what about mantein it? Does PHP support MVC pattern? For simply application, and Im talking about web application, not web page, I used in the past JSP, today for a medium-large webapplication Im studying Struts framework. If you are doing web page that have to evolve for any reason in short time I'll suggest anyway JSP even without struts. > So far I've found only 1 host provider that supports JSPs and WAR files > for about the same cost as the PHP hosts - around 6 bucks/mo. but the > server crashes/shuts-down quite often; probably because it's over loaded > with too many virtual hosts. > > Everyone else hosts on PHP as you said. > > There are also some other hosts that support only JSPs but don't support > WAR files, which limits a web application considerably if you plan to use > MVC framework and such, those are not supported by other hosts. > > - Original Message > From: Igor Borovkov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Tomcat Users List > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:55:46 AM > Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites > > > Hello! > > If you want to develop a small or medium webapplication > and you or your programmers is familiar with PHP I think > it is no doubt use PHP. > > Two years ago when I was in online ecommerce industry I used only > PHP. These days I was not familiar with Java. Now I am > a Java Developer. Nowadays I develop medium and large > enterprise applications mostly. And anyway > I think I will not use JSP for developing a small application. > > If you don't have a dedicated server It is hardly to find > hosting with JSP supports. 99,99% hosting companies > supports PHP by default. > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > - > To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
So far I've found only 1 host provider that supports JSPs and WAR files for about the same cost as the PHP hosts - around 6 bucks/mo. but the server crashes/shuts-down quite often; probably because it's over loaded with too many virtual hosts. Everyone else hosts on PHP as you said. There are also some other hosts that support only JSPs but don't support WAR files, which limits a web application considerably if you plan to use MVC framework and such, those are not supported by other hosts. - Original Message From: Igor Borovkov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tomcat Users List Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:55:46 AM Subject: Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites Hello! If you want to develop a small or medium webapplication and you or your programmers is familiar with PHP I think it is no doubt use PHP. Two years ago when I was in online ecommerce industry I used only PHP. These days I was not familiar with Java. Now I am a Java Developer. Nowadays I develop medium and large enterprise applications mostly. And anyway I think I will not use JSP for developing a small application. If you don't have a dedicated server It is hardly to find hosting with JSP supports. 99,99% hosting companies supports PHP by default. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is jsp designed for use by large websites
Hello! If you want to develop a small or medium webapplication and you or your programmers is familiar with PHP I think it is no doubt use PHP. Two years ago when I was in online ecommerce industry I used only PHP. These days I was not familiar with Java. Now I am a Java Developer. Nowadays I develop medium and large enterprise applications mostly. And anyway I think I will not use JSP for developing a small application. If you don't have a dedicated server It is hardly to find hosting with JSP supports. 99,99% hosting companies supports PHP by default. > Hello all, > I am a beginner and I am considering whether to use > jsp or php to develop a web application. I prefer jsp > since i am familiar with java. But i found that many > web hosting companies either do not support jsp or > only support jsp in their expensive dedicated server > plans. In contrast, php is well-supported by almost > all web hosting companies. Is jsp designed for use by > large websites that require dedicated servers? Do you > think php is a better choice for small and medium > sized websites that don't require dedicated servers? > Thank you. - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
