Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Dennis Doros]

Laura,

I apologize, but I find this is an extremely offensive comment. A lot of
distributors I know personally or by reputation are incredibly brave and
have set out in this side of the film business to educate and/or change the
world. They're almost as brave as some of the filmmakers they represent.
(Though we don't get shot at like some of them.) Many of us have faced hate
mail, death threats, bomb threats and a LOT of protests. I'm very proud
(okay, vain) that a strategy was named after me from when I was at Kino
distributing Last Temptation of Christ and we faced down an enormous amount
of pressure to drop the title.

I actually have not heard of films pulled because of controversy (though I
suspect some might have been pulled because of slander/libel and some like
Last Temptation not picked up by larger distributors), but there are, of
course, many books and films that have been pulled from libraries or (just
as bad) not purchased. It's wonderful that ALA has a promoted a list of the
most banned books each year

(with
a great photo of our friend who we'll be distributing sooner than later) to
face this issue, but that also means it still exists.

There are extraordinarily brave librarians to be celebrated and the cause
of preservation (except when we're talking 16mm) has been championed by
libraries and media centers. But I've seen some of the nasty "stuff" that
distributors have faced to champion films. They're pretty cool too.

Best regards,
Dennis Doros
Milestone Film & Video


On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Laura Jenemann  wrote:

> Relatedly, librarians value freedom of speech.  We will hold onto films
> that are controversial, and may even oppose our individual values in order
> to preserve freedom of speech.  Will a vendor/publisher pull a streaming
> title if it is related to a controversy because it is bad business?
>
>
>
> Laura Jenemann
>
> Media, Film Studies, and Dance Librarian
>
> George Mason University
>
> 703-993-7593
>
> ljene...@gmu.edu
>
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Laura Jenemann]

Echoing Susan and Randal’s comments, and still catching up:

A library buys the film on VHS.
A library buys the film on DVD.
A library leases the film for 3 years.

Somethin’ ain’t right about this model.

Regards,
Laura

Laura Jenemann
Media, Film Studies, and Dance Librarian
George Mason University
703-993-7593
ljene...@gmu.edu

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Susan Albrecht
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:51 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

I honestly would be very, very disappointed if DVDs were discontinued by 
Icarus!  I know that, as a small residential college, we are different than big 
universities and/or those with lots of distance ed and online courses.  Still, 
I also know that we are not unique and that there are many small schools out 
there purchasing film in physical format.  I definitely still attempt to build 
a collection, not just acquire access.

Randal alluded to the budget thing, and I’ll just say, “Yes!”  For me, it still 
makes most sense to use our limited dollars to purchase DVDs, rather than 
arrange for streaming.  Yes, docs can be pricey in DVD format, too, but having 
them available for years and years as opposed to 1-year or 3-year licenses 
matters.  And DVD is DEFINITELY preferred to short-term licensing of an 
individual title.  That screams “rental” to me, and that’s just not something 
our budget can support.  Sarah mentioned buying feature films in DVD format, 
and it’s true that the difference is more marked there, where the DVD only 
costs $25.  So “bang for your buck” is absolutely more apparent in the feature 
film realm, but it still holds on the doc and educational side for us, too.

Please don’t stop! ☺

Susan

Susan Albrecht
Graduate Fellowship Advisor
Library Media Acquisitions Manager
Wabash College Lilly Library
765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)
765-361-6295 fax
albre...@wabash.edu<mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>
Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships
www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films<http://www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films>

***
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
***

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com&

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Meghann Matwichuk]

I fully agree with Sarah's assessment / concerns.  The phrase "serials 
crisis" has entered our professional lexicon for very good reason, and I 
think it's good to be careful and cautious.  And yes, serials are a lot 
of work -- this model requires an expansion of staff time and license 
management.  I think this is why there are many of us who -- either 
because we don't have institutional support because of the multiple 
moving pieces, or because of the budgetary equation -- are sticking with 
the database model and seeing it as an access bonus while still curating 
a hard copy collection.  (This is more prevalent on centralized campuses 
without a heavy focus on online education programs.)


I think there are many vendors who are doing a lot to mitigate these 
factors, and there are many that simply can't be mitigated, but I get 
the feeling that these complications go a long way towards explaining 
the 'haves' and the 'have nots' when it comes to different levels of 
streaming support.


--
Meghann Matwichuk, M.S.
Associate Librarian
Interim Head, Multimedia Collections and Services Department
Morris Library, University of Delaware
181 S. College Ave.
Newark, DE 19717
(302) 831-1475
http://library.udel.edu/filmandvideo
http://library.udel.edu/multimedia



On 11/6/2015 3:21 PM, Andrews, Sarah E wrote:


As a person who worked in Acquisitions for many years—what I see 
happening with films is the same thing that happened to journals in 
the early 1990s.


Some larger libraries jumped on to databases, subscriptions, and 
dumped print as much as possible.  Some didn’t.  Some waited—and in 
some cases—are still waiting for electronic journals to catch up in 
terms of image quality, or print is released first, or electronic is 
only black and white.   For profit publishers made the jump easier, 
non-profit or low profit publishers are still struggling with this.


Libraries struggle with ever-increasing costs of journals, and things 
like “3 year license” personally scare me because it sounds like a 
serial, and serials are a lot of work, and represent continuing 
expenses.   And as a research library, one of our duties is to 
maintain collections for future scholars.  Short term licenses work 
great for teaching, but as others have said—what about permanent 
access?  Film distributors belonging to things like CLOCKSS or LOCKSS 
or starting something similar would be a good start—at least for 
larger institutions.


Sarah Andrews

Access Services Supervisor

Hardin Library for the Health Sciences

Phone 319-384-2883




VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Deg Farrelly]

Apologies for being late to this conversationŠ I have been traveling,
attending and presenting at the Charleston Conference, and presenting a
webinar on issues in streaming video for ALCTS on Wednesday.

I have been reading the responses to Jonathan¹s original question and
largely concur with the comments from several about streaming replacing
DVD only when there is a perpetual license for the digital file.  I
personally do not require that file to be on our own servers; but I am
very mindful that if hosting is provided by the distributor, we do not
have the protections provided by dark archives like Portico provides for
digital journals.

I personally have never understood the rationale for charging double the
price of a DVD for a streaming file, and certainly disagree with charging
the price of a DVD for only a term license.  Especially with the library
takes on the effort and expense of generating the digital file from a hard
copy, and/or hosting the file on their own servers.  This has always
struck me unfair price increases.

Arguments are made that the streaming version receives greater use and is
more flexible, but even some of that is debatable.  A DVD shown in class
(perhaps the only practical way to use a hard copy film) may be seen by 30
students simultaneously (plus or minus those who skip class or fall
asleep).  That the film is linked in a course shell is not indication that
the video is being seen by any more students in that class.  In fact it
may be seen less as data suggests that student viewing of a linked
streaming video has a very high drop-off rate and few students watch the
entire film.  Additionally, when we have to generate and host the digital
file ourselves, we frequently are unable to provide captioning, which
makes the stream LESS flexible than the DVD.

I appreciate the distributors that sell the streaming rights at the same
price as the DVD (even more so when they also provide a volume discount).
And I especially appreciate those who do do AND provide the digital file,
and the caption file as well.  I will purchase the DVD with the stream it
the two are packaged very reasonably.  I like the extra protection
afforded by our ownership of the physical artifact.

I will not, the extent that I am able, enter into term licenses for
individual titles, except in the rare circumstance that that is the only
way to obtain access to an essential title.

One of the key take-away points I picked up at the Charleston Conference
is the difference between term licensing individual titles (no matter what
approach is used) and in-perpetuity/Life of File licensing:

Term Licenses = Providing a Service, content when it is needed

In-Perpetuity = Collection Development

(Thank you to Michael Arthur at the University of Alabama for that insight.

I recognize that I represent a VERY large university with different
budgeting issues than other institutions, and that your mileage may vary.

-deg


deg farrelly
Media Librarian/Streaming Video Administrator
Arizona State University Libraries
Tempe, AZ  85287-1006
602.332.3103


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Steve Ladd]

This has been a very insightful discussion. As a distributor, I have another 
option to ask your opinion of.

It seems the ideal expressed for most colleges is to build and have access to 
film collections in perpetuity, whether DVD or streaming. Shorter term 
streaming licenses may be a useful additional option, but are not seen as a 
replacement for building collections accessible over a long term.

With that in mind, what if media distributors offered DVDs with a digital site 
license in perpetuity at the same or slightly higher price than the current 
price of a DVD -- and discounts for purchasing multiple films? Right now, most 
distributors charge quite a bit more for the DSL option. 

Would that provide more of an incentive to buy DVDs and build collections, 
whether streaming or DVD?  

I presume most colleges now have (or will have) digital platforms to host 
streaming -- and Kanopy (and others?) offer hosting of films purchased with DSL 
for institutions that subscribe.  

If you don't find this a useful option, please explain why -- or any other 
ideas you may have.

Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion, and to Jonathan Miller 
for initiating it.

Steve

Steve Ladd
--
THE VIDEO PROJECT
www.videoproject.com
800-475-2638







VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Nancy E. Friedland]

Thank you Jonathan Miller for reaching out to this community of librarians
involved in curating these collections.

My apologies for coming late to the conversation but want to add a few
thoughts.

First, I second these comments -- and emphasize that budget is a major
concern for both large and small universities and colleges. DVDs are more
affordable and offer a longer-term collection building model. Models based
on short-term subscription, PDA, etc. are difficult to budget for and as
you know -- we operate on fiscal year spending cycles. Based on earlier
responses to this thread and another active discussion on streaming -- many
of us are deciding to focus purchase on license in perpetuity for the life
of the file and limiting to purchase when the film is needed for a class
reserves.

Another concern -- streaming for presentation and classroom use. This can
be an issue depending on network capacity, quality of the digital file etc.
-- Another issue, the ability to pull clips from a DVD is a favored option
for instructional use as well -- this should be an option with a streamed
file.

I think offering the option for DVD purchase is essential -- at least for
the near term.

Nancy





On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Jennifer DeJonghe <
jennifer.dejon...@metrostate.edu> wrote:

> I would be fine with no more DVDs if streaming was an option. I try to
> avoid buying DVDs as I consider them to be nearly useless and prone to
> damage. We have 4 dispersed campuses, lots of online classes, and lots of
> adjunct faculty who cannot easily collect physical media. And faculty who
> want to show the same title on the same day.
>
> I am not hung up on perpetual access rights, because streaming is valuable
> to me and I want an easy, hosted way to manage or content that includes
> stats, captioning, embedding, etc. I also want to maintain a "fresh"
> collection, save space, and staff time.
>
> Would I rather be able to buy digital files and never pay for them again,
> ever? Sure, but right now I am willing to pay the price I pay for hosted
> streaming titles, because hosted streaming is valuable to my institution,
> and DVDs are nearly worthless here. Not to mention, we have many $300+ DVDs
> that have never circulated. I'd rather pay $100/ title per year for
> streaming that I know will get used or is getting used than spend money on
> physical media at this point. Oh, and my favorite option is PDA/ DDA
> because I feel that really does help me make sure I am paying for actual
> use. For what it is worth, I'm at a public university with just over 6,000
> FTE.
>
> Jennifer
>
> Jennifer DeJonghe
> Librarian and Professor
> Metropolitan State University
> St. Paul, MN
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
> videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 10:01 AM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: videolib Digest, Vol 96, Issue 3
>
> Send videolib mailing list submissions to
> videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> https://calmail.berkeley.edu/manage/list/listinfo/videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> videolib-ow...@lists.berkeley.edu
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of videolib digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: No more DVDs? (Jonathan Miller)
>2. Re: No more DVDs? (Gail Gawlik)
>3. Re: No more DVDs? (Kerbel, Michael)
>4. Re: No more DVDs? (Moshiri, Farhad)
>5. Re: No more DVDs? (Moshiri, Farhad)
>6. Re: No more DVDs? (Jeanne Little)
>
>
> ------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 15:46:37 +
> From: Jonathan Miller <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
> To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <
> bn3pr0401mb11404c7fe5e360f95fff5239ae...@bn3pr0401mb1140.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Farhad
>
> Thank you = I appreciate the problem with having to license a big
> collection - that makes perfect sense. What if the title was available to
> stream individually, by itself, for the same, or lower price, than the DVD?
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Moshiri, Far

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Gisele Genevieve Tanasse]

Thanks for raising this Steve-- this is actually my preferred model.

A similar model that I think works really well is California Newsreel's--
where you purchase a DVD and with it comes a license to encode a digital
file for 3 years.  After that 3 years is up, you still have the license to
stream in the file format you selected until that format no longer works
for you.  This, I think, mirrors really well the life cycle of traditional
physical video formats.  It allows libraries to "own" a file format and
ensures that distributors still have good reason to keep quality titles in
their catalogs, even though the format they are selling is no longer
subject to physical degradation-- rather, it is subject to the often harsh
expectations of users and technological developments that will trigger the
upgrade to a newer format.

The first file formats we used for streaming had about a 7 year life span
of quality usability-- that is shorter than how long VHS was readily used
in classrooms, but still offers both distributors and libraries with large
collections a level of stability we need.  Those 1-3 year licenses have
unnaturally shortened the lifespan of video formats-- and are a bum deal
unless you really look at them as a short term course reserve of use for
very specific fields.  Some of our clinical social work faculty, for
example-- they don't want to use videos of clinical sessions that are older
and outdated-- but other than those kinds of currency concerns, I just
don't think a hand selected license that expires after 1-3 years (with
nothing to show for it) is worth the work of negotiating and purchasing.
You've established faculty/user expectation-- you've used a significant
portion of your funds-- invested the time of curating and developing
metadata/discovery tools-- and 1-3 years later, you're starting all over
again. For those of us who have completed (or are still working on) large
upgrades of VHS tapes (I'm talking tens of thousands of titles for us),
there just ain't enough time to bother with it.

Gisele

Gisèle Tanasse

Head, Media Resources Center

150 Moffitt Library #6000
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-6000
PH: 510-642-8197
BCAL: nerdpo...@berkeley.edu
NOTE: PART TIME SCHEDULE Monday-Thurs 8AM-2PM

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Steve Ladd  wrote:

>
> This has been a very insightful discussion. As a distributor, I have
> another option to ask your opinion of.
>
> It seems the ideal expressed for most colleges is to build and have access
> to film collections in perpetuity, whether DVD or streaming. Shorter term
> streaming licenses may be a useful additional option, but are not seen as a
> replacement for building collections accessible over a long term.
>
> With that in mind, what if media distributors offered DVDs with a digital
> site license in perpetuity at the same or slightly higher price than the
> current price of a DVD -- and discounts for purchasing multiple films?
> Right now, most distributors charge quite a bit more for the DSL option.
>
> Would that provide more of an incentive to buy DVDs and build collections,
> whether streaming or DVD?
>
> I presume most colleges now have (or will have) digital platforms to host
> streaming -- and Kanopy (and others?) offer hosting of films purchased with
> DSL for institutions that subscribe.
>
> If you don't find this a useful option, please explain why -- or any other
> ideas you may have.
>
> Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion, and to Jonathan
> Miller for initiating it.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve Ladd
> --
> THE VIDEO PROJECT
> www.videoproject.com
> 800-475-2638
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Jeanne Little]

I agree with what Gisele has said.

Most libraries have fairly flat budgets, and when we spend $350 or more for
access to a title for only 1-3 years, we are faced with making choices
between films/streaming and the other materials we need to buy for our
collection. We are also reviewing our VHS and trying to replace in a newer
format when possible. Having rights in perpetuity/life of file is the best
option for us when considering what we can purchase to enhance our teaching
and learning on campus.

Thanks to every vendor who recognizes the need to offer long-term or life
of file rights for a reasonable price. Your films will likely be considered
for purchase, and then used more frequently, when they are available with a
longer-term option.

Jeanne Little

-- 
Rod Library - Room 250
Resource Management-Collections
Content Discovery Division
University of Northern Iowa
Cedar Falls, IA  50614-3675
319-273-7255


On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Gisele Genevieve Tanasse  wrote:

> Thanks for raising this Steve-- this is actually my preferred model.
>
> A similar model that I think works really well is California Newsreel's--
> where you purchase a DVD and with it comes a license to encode a digital
> file for 3 years.  After that 3 years is up, you still have the license to
> stream in the file format you selected until that format no longer works
> for you.  This, I think, mirrors really well the life cycle of traditional
> physical video formats.  It allows libraries to "own" a file format and
> ensures that distributors still have good reason to keep quality titles in
> their catalogs, even though the format they are selling is no longer
> subject to physical degradation-- rather, it is subject to the often harsh
> expectations of users and technological developments that will trigger the
> upgrade to a newer format.
>
> The first file formats we used for streaming had about a 7 year life span
> of quality usability-- that is shorter than how long VHS was readily used
> in classrooms, but still offers both distributors and libraries with large
> collections a level of stability we need.  Those 1-3 year licenses have
> unnaturally shortened the lifespan of video formats-- and are a bum deal
> unless you really look at them as a short term course reserve of use for
> very specific fields.  Some of our clinical social work faculty, for
> example-- they don't want to use videos of clinical sessions that are older
> and outdated-- but other than those kinds of currency concerns, I just
> don't think a hand selected license that expires after 1-3 years (with
> nothing to show for it) is worth the work of negotiating and purchasing.
> You've established faculty/user expectation-- you've used a significant
> portion of your funds-- invested the time of curating and developing
> metadata/discovery tools-- and 1-3 years later, you're starting all over
> again. For those of us who have completed (or are still working on) large
> upgrades of VHS tapes (I'm talking tens of thousands of titles for us),
> there just ain't enough time to bother with it.
>
> Gisele
>
> Gisèle Tanasse
>
> Head, Media Resources Center
>
> 150 Moffitt Library #6000
> University of California
> Berkeley, CA 94720-6000
> PH: 510-642-8197
> BCAL: nerdpo...@berkeley.edu
> NOTE: PART TIME SCHEDULE Monday-Thurs 8AM-2PM
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Steve Ladd  wrote:
>
>>
>> This has been a very insightful discussion. As a distributor, I have
>> another option to ask your opinion of.
>>
>> It seems the ideal expressed for most colleges is to build and have
>> access to film collections in perpetuity, whether DVD or streaming. Shorter
>> term streaming licenses may be a useful additional option, but are not seen
>> as a replacement for building collections accessible over a long term.
>>
>> With that in mind, what if media distributors offered DVDs with a digital
>> site license in perpetuity at the same or slightly higher price than the
>> current price of a DVD -- and discounts for purchasing multiple films?
>> Right now, most distributors charge quite a bit more for the DSL option.
>>
>> Would that provide more of an incentive to buy DVDs and build
>> collections, whether streaming or DVD?
>>
>> I presume most colleges now have (or will have) digital platforms to host
>> streaming -- and Kanopy (and others?) offer hosting of films purchased with
>> DSL for institutions that subscribe.
>>
>> If you don't find this a useful option, please explain why -- or any
>> other ideas you may have.
>>
>> Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion, and to Jonathan
>> Miller for initiating it.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> Steve Ladd
>> --
>> THE VIDEO PROJECT
>> www.videoproject.com
>> 800-475-2638
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, 

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Susan Albrecht]

I appreciate your candor, Jonathan.  As to tossing the ball back into my court 
;), this may well seem like punting, but I genuinely don't believe that I'm 
equipped with enough knowledge or understanding of the business side of things 
to know what is a practical or reasonable proposal.  I simply wondered whether 
the "flipside" had been considered, and whether it might be doable.  I would 
rely upon distributors and vendors to speak to that.

Cheers,
Susan

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 2:38 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

Dear Susan

Thanks for asking these questions. The proximate cause was to try and respond 
to what we thought was expressed by some libraries: concerns about streaming 
and not having a permanent back up,  In discussing the idea amongst ourselves 
we did think that it might increase the number of DVDs sold to some customers - 
but not necessarily the amount of money spent. And yes, maybe it would 
encourage some to license or subscribe sooner rather than later. Perhaps we are 
wrong, perhaps there will be unexpected developments, or little interest or 
feeling that this helps, we don't know - but that's something that we think is 
worth finding out. Let's see,

As for your idea to swap the offer around, we didn't think of that, but we're 
open to it. What would you suggest? Maybe that can be our next experiment!

Best,

Jonathan


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Susan Albrecht
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 1:40 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

Jonathan,

I hope I don't sound snarky with this question, because I don't mean to be(!), 
but can you explain what the purpose is of offering the experiment with this 
particular setup?  Are you hoping to increase the number of streaming 
subscriptions? Hoping to bolster DVD sales?  Or something different?

I guess I don't see a whole lot of those who DO have a large commitment to 
streamed video already saying, "Gosh, we wish we could also buy the DVD, but as 
is, we're only able to afford the streaming."  What I'm seeing, rather, is a 
number of us saying, "Gosh, we wouldn't mind dabbling in streaming, but as is, 
we're only able to afford the DVD."  In other words, I'm surprised the 
experiment isn't the OPPOSITE:  Anyone who purchases "X" number of DVDs can add 
on the streamed versions for 50% off, or add a collection for a certain % 
discount.

Or maybe I'm missing the point altogether.  I recognize that's a distinct 
possibility!

Susan

Susan Albrecht
Graduate Fellowship Advisor
Library Media Acquisitions Manager
Wabash College Lilly Library
765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)
765-361-6295 fax
albre...@wabash.edu<mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>
Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships
www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films<http://www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films>

***
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
***

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:23 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

I
've been snowed under by all the responses to my question! And I agree with 
Barb, one of the main things that we've known, but that has been brought home 
again here, is that no one size will fit all. I've been in this business (if it 
is a business) for over 35 years, and one thing I can say for sure: every year 
things get a bit more complicated.

In any case apparent from this discussion is that many of you, while 
acknowledging and, in most cases, accommodating the increasingly pervasive 
transition to digital delivery/streaming, DO want to have at least the option 
of also acquiring DVDs, whether as a back-up to loss of online access, and/or 
for the DVD's utility in its own right - and the notion of subscribing (for one 
 year or three years or whatever short of forever) to individual films, or 
large collections, is a difficult trade off of missions, and money, at best.

Given that we (and I write here on behalf of both Bullfrog Films and Icarus 
Films) are on both sides of a complimentary sword, we have been talking about 
this the last two days, and have thought of an experiment that we would like to 
put forward:

What if, when you license a film for streaming online,

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Andrews, Sarah E]

As a person who worked in Acquisitions for many years—what I see happening with 
films is the same thing that happened to journals in the early 1990s.

Some larger libraries jumped on to databases, subscriptions, and dumped print 
as much as possible.  Some didn’t.  Some waited—and in some cases—are still 
waiting for electronic journals to catch up in terms of image quality, or print 
is released first, or electronic is only black and white.   For profit 
publishers made the jump easier, non-profit or low profit publishers are still 
struggling with this.

Libraries struggle with ever-increasing costs of journals, and things like “3 
year license” personally scare me because it sounds like a serial, and serials 
are a lot of work, and represent continuing expenses.   And as a research 
library, one of our duties is to maintain collections for future scholars.  
Short term licenses work great for teaching, but as others have said—what about 
permanent access?  Film distributors belonging to things like CLOCKSS or LOCKSS 
or starting something similar would be a good start—at least for larger 
institutions.


Sarah Andrews
Access Services Supervisor
Hardin Library for the Health Sciences
Phone 319-384-2883





VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Moshiri, Farhad]

Dear Jonathan,



It is unfortunate to see Bullfrog and Icarus Films have decided on losing many 
libraries with small AV budgets as their customers. Only large research 
libraries with big budgets can afford subscriptions to streaming video 
databases or licensing individual titles for a short period of time. This will 
certainly widen the gap between haves and have nots. I don't know why making 
DVDs on demand does not work for your companies and you prefer to loose some of 
your current customers.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
on behalf of Jonathan Miller <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:23 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

I
’ve been snowed under by all the responses to my question! And I agree with 
Barb, one of the main things that we’ve known, but that has been brought home 
again here, is that no one size will fit all. I’ve been in this business (if it 
is a business) for over 35 years, and one thing I can say for sure: every year 
things get a bit more complicated.

In any case apparent from this discussion is that many of you, while 
acknowledging and, in most cases, accommodating the increasingly pervasive 
transition to digital delivery/streaming, DO want to have at least the option 
of also acquiring DVDs, whether as a back-up to loss of online access, and/or 
for the DVD’s utility in its own right – and the notion of subscribing (for one 
 year or three years or whatever short of forever) to individual films, or 
large collections, is a difficult trade off of missions, and money, at best.

Given that we (and I write here on behalf of both Bullfrog Films and Icarus 
Films) are on both sides of a complimentary sword, we have been talking about 
this the last two days, and have thought of an experiment that we would like to 
put forward:

What if, when you license a film for streaming online, or subscribe to an 
entire collection, you could then also acquire any of those films on DVD for 
half price? So, if you were to subscribe to The Docuseek2 Collection, you could 
then buy any Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films DVD, for 50% off, during the entire 
time your license or subscription is in place.

Would this make it practical for more libraries to address both imperatives of 
collection development?  Would it make the tradeoffs a little less difficult?

We’ve discussed that this may reduce aggregate sales by the “film distribution” 
companies, but it might also make the transitions underway on both sides of the 
equation smoother?

We would like to find out, and so we (both companies) will make this offer 
available until 12/31/15:

Any institution that is currently licensing The Docuseek2 Collection, or 
commits to licensing The Docuseek2 Collection by December 31, 2015 (whether 
with a basic subscription, or via DS2’s Evidence Based Acquisition program) 
will be able to purchase, while their license is in force, any title (from 
either Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films) that available from (or added to) The 
Docuseek2 Collection, at half price.

Both companies will leave this offer in place through the end of the year, and 
in January we will evaluate how it went (all of us together, hopefully) and 
whether or not we should continue, modify, or drop this idea.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this!

We’ll be very interested to see what happens.

Thanks again for all the comments, and best for now.


Jonathan Miller

For Bullfrog Films & Icarus Films









From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Bergman, Barbara J
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 4:21 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

I think the one clear answer we’ve gotten out of this discussion is that there 
is no one right answer.  Academic libraries are pretty diverse. :)


Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State 
University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945 | 
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu<mailto:barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu>




This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain 
privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email and any 
attachments is

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Moshiri, Farhad]

Thanks Jonathan (sigh of relief). I thought you're going to limit the DVDs for 
only those who have subscriptions to the streaming format.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
on behalf of Jonathan Miller <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 10:44 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

Dear Farhad
To be clear, we are not discontinuing DVDs, nor are we raising our prices for 
DVDs (in fact for over 35 years we have NEVER raised our prices, just the 
opposite). All we are doing really, in this experiment, is offering to lower 
the total costs for those libraries that do want, for whatever reason, to have 
both, streaming and DVDs.
 We certainly do not want to lose any customers, including you.
And if that turns out to be a result of this experiment, it certainly will be 
an argument against continuing it. I am not sure what that should be the case, 
but we will see!
  Jonathan


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Moshiri, Farhad
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:35 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not


Dear Jonathan,



It is unfortunate to see Bullfrog and Icarus Films have decided on losing many 
libraries with small AV budgets as their customers. Only large research 
libraries with big budgets can afford subscriptions to streaming video 
databases or licensing individual titles for a short period of time. This will 
certainly widen the gap between haves and have nots. I don't know why making 
DVDs on demand does not work for your companies and you prefer to loose some of 
your current customers.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:23 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

I
’ve been snowed under by all the responses to my question! And I agree with 
Barb, one of the main things that we’ve known, but that has been brought home 
again here, is that no one size will fit all. I’ve been in this business (if it 
is a business) for over 35 years, and one thing I can say for sure: every year 
things get a bit more complicated.

In any case apparent from this discussion is that many of you, while 
acknowledging and, in most cases, accommodating the increasingly pervasive 
transition to digital delivery/streaming, DO want to have at least the option 
of also acquiring DVDs, whether as a back-up to loss of online access, and/or 
for the DVD’s utility in its own right – and the notion of subscribing (for one 
 year or three years or whatever short of forever) to individual films, or 
large collections, is a difficult trade off of missions, and money, at best.

Given that we (and I write here on behalf of both Bullfrog Films and Icarus 
Films) are on both sides of a complimentary sword, we have been talking about 
this the last two days, and have thought of an experiment that we would like to 
put forward:

What if, when you license a film for streaming online, or subscribe to an 
entire collection, you could then also acquire any of those films on DVD for 
half price? So, if you were to subscribe to The Docuseek2 Collection, you could 
then buy any Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films DVD, for 50% off, during the entire 
time your license or subscription is in place.

Would this make it practical for more libraries to address both imperatives of 
collection development?  Would it make the tradeoffs a little less difficult?

We’ve discussed that this may reduce aggregate sales by the “film distribution” 
companies, but it might also make the transitions underway on both sides of the 
equation smoother?

We would like to find out, and so we (both companies) will make this offer 
available until 12/31/15:

Any institution that is currently licensing The Docuseek2 Collection, or 
commits to licensing The Docuseek2 Collection by December 31, 2015 (whether 
with a basic subscription, or via DS2’s Evidence Bas

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Kerbel, Michael]

I’ve tried to read all of the responses and I may have missed something but has 
anyone addressed the major issue that for film analysis, streaming is very 
limited?  I don’t mean only the lack of “extras” and alternate versions, which 
as someone pointed out, could be streamed.  I mean the basic mechanism of going 
to specific chapters, scenes or shots, going back and forth and doing close 
analysis?

I hope that Criterion stays in the business of making DVDs and Blu-rays!

From: 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>>
Reply-To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>" 
<videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>>
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 11:44 AM
To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>" 
<videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

Dear Farhad
To be clear, we are not discontinuing DVDs, nor are we raising our prices for 
DVDs (in fact for over 35 years we have NEVER raised our prices, just the 
opposite). All we are doing really, in this experiment, is offering to lower 
the total costs for those libraries that do want, for whatever reason, to have 
both, streaming and DVDs.
 We certainly do not want to lose any customers, including you.
And if that turns out to be a result of this experiment, it certainly will be 
an argument against continuing it. I am not sure what that should be the case, 
but we will see!
  Jonathan

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Moshiri, Farhad
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:35 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not


Dear Jonathan,



It is unfortunate to see Bullfrog and Icarus Films have decided on losing many 
libraries with small AV budgets as their customers. Only large research 
libraries with big budgets can afford subscriptions to streaming video 
databases or licensing individual titles for a short period of time. This will 
certainly widen the gap between haves and have nots. I don't know why making 
DVDs on demand does not work for your companies and you prefer to loose some of 
your current customers.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway – CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842

From:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>
 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:23 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

I
’ve been snowed under by all the responses to my question! And I agree with 
Barb, one of the main things that we’ve known, but that has been brought home 
again here, is that no one size will fit all. I’ve been in this business (if it 
is a business) for over 35 years, and one thing I can say for sure: every year 
things get a bit more complicated.

In any case apparent from this discussion is that many of you, while 
acknowledging and, in most cases, accommodating the increasingly pervasive 
transition to digital delivery/streaming, DO want to have at least the option 
of also acquiring DVDs, whether as a back-up to loss of online access, and/or 
for the DVD’s utility in its own right – and the notion of subscribing (for one 
 year or three years or whatever short of forever) to individual films, or 
large collections, is a difficult trade off of missions, and money, at best.

Given that we (and I write here on behalf of both Bullfrog Films and Icarus 
Films) are on both sides of a complimentary sword, we have been talking about 
this the last two days, and have thought of an experiment that we would like to 
put forward:

What if, when you license a film for streaming online, or subscribe to an 
entire collection, you could then also acquire any of those films on DVD for 
half price? So, if you were to subscribe to The Docuseek2 Collection, you could 
then buy any Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films DVD, for 50% off, during the entire 
time your license or subscription is in place.

Would this make it practical for more libraries to address both imperatives of 
collection development?  Would it make the tradeoffs a little less difficult?

We’ve d

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Jonathan Miller]

Dear Farhad
To be clear, we are not discontinuing DVDs, nor are we raising our prices for 
DVDs (in fact for over 35 years we have NEVER raised our prices, just the 
opposite). All we are doing really, in this experiment, is offering to lower 
the total costs for those libraries that do want, for whatever reason, to have 
both, streaming and DVDs.
 We certainly do not want to lose any customers, including you.
And if that turns out to be a result of this experiment, it certainly will be 
an argument against continuing it. I am not sure what that should be the case, 
but we will see!
  Jonathan

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Moshiri, Farhad
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:35 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not


Dear Jonathan,



It is unfortunate to see Bullfrog and Icarus Films have decided on losing many 
libraries with small AV budgets as their customers. Only large research 
libraries with big budgets can afford subscriptions to streaming video 
databases or licensing individual titles for a short period of time. This will 
certainly widen the gap between haves and have nots. I don't know why making 
DVDs on demand does not work for your companies and you prefer to loose some of 
your current customers.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway - CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:23 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

I
've been snowed under by all the responses to my question! And I agree with 
Barb, one of the main things that we've known, but that has been brought home 
again here, is that no one size will fit all. I've been in this business (if it 
is a business) for over 35 years, and one thing I can say for sure: every year 
things get a bit more complicated.

In any case apparent from this discussion is that many of you, while 
acknowledging and, in most cases, accommodating the increasingly pervasive 
transition to digital delivery/streaming, DO want to have at least the option 
of also acquiring DVDs, whether as a back-up to loss of online access, and/or 
for the DVD's utility in its own right - and the notion of subscribing (for one 
 year or three years or whatever short of forever) to individual films, or 
large collections, is a difficult trade off of missions, and money, at best.

Given that we (and I write here on behalf of both Bullfrog Films and Icarus 
Films) are on both sides of a complimentary sword, we have been talking about 
this the last two days, and have thought of an experiment that we would like to 
put forward:

What if, when you license a film for streaming online, or subscribe to an 
entire collection, you could then also acquire any of those films on DVD for 
half price? So, if you were to subscribe to The Docuseek2 Collection, you could 
then buy any Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films DVD, for 50% off, during the entire 
time your license or subscription is in place.

Would this make it practical for more libraries to address both imperatives of 
collection development?  Would it make the tradeoffs a little less difficult?

We've discussed that this may reduce aggregate sales by the "film distribution" 
companies, but it might also make the transitions underway on both sides of the 
equation smoother?

We would like to find out, and so we (both companies) will make this offer 
available until 12/31/15:

Any institution that is currently licensing The Docuseek2 Collection, or 
commits to licensing The Docuseek2 Collection by December 31, 2015 (whether 
with a basic subscription, or via DS2's Evidence Based Acquisition program) 
will be able to purchase, while their license is in force, any title (from 
either Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films) that available from (or added to) The 
Docuseek2 Collection, at half price.

Both companies will leave this offer in place through the end of the year, and 
in January we will evaluate how it went (all of us together, hopefully) and 
whether or not we should continue, modify, or drop this idea.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this!

We'll be very interested to see what happens.

Thanks again for all the comments, and best for now.


Jonathan Miller

For Bullfrog Films & Icarus Films









From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:vi

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Susan Albrecht]

Jonathan,

I hope I don't sound snarky with this question, because I don't mean to be(!), 
but can you explain what the purpose is of offering the experiment with this 
particular setup?  Are you hoping to increase the number of streaming 
subscriptions? Hoping to bolster DVD sales?  Or something different?

I guess I don't see a whole lot of those who DO have a large commitment to 
streamed video already saying, "Gosh, we wish we could also buy the DVD, but as 
is, we're only able to afford the streaming."  What I'm seeing, rather, is a 
number of us saying, "Gosh, we wouldn't mind dabbling in streaming, but as is, 
we're only able to afford the DVD."  In other words, I'm surprised the 
experiment isn't the OPPOSITE:  Anyone who purchases "X" number of DVDs can add 
on the streamed versions for 50% off, or add a collection for a certain % 
discount.

Or maybe I'm missing the point altogether.  I recognize that's a distinct 
possibility!

Susan

Susan Albrecht
Graduate Fellowship Advisor
Library Media Acquisitions Manager
Wabash College Lilly Library
765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)
765-361-6295 fax
albre...@wabash.edu<mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>
Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships
www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films<http://www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films>

***
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
***

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:23 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

I
've been snowed under by all the responses to my question! And I agree with 
Barb, one of the main things that we've known, but that has been brought home 
again here, is that no one size will fit all. I've been in this business (if it 
is a business) for over 35 years, and one thing I can say for sure: every year 
things get a bit more complicated.

In any case apparent from this discussion is that many of you, while 
acknowledging and, in most cases, accommodating the increasingly pervasive 
transition to digital delivery/streaming, DO want to have at least the option 
of also acquiring DVDs, whether as a back-up to loss of online access, and/or 
for the DVD's utility in its own right - and the notion of subscribing (for one 
 year or three years or whatever short of forever) to individual films, or 
large collections, is a difficult trade off of missions, and money, at best.

Given that we (and I write here on behalf of both Bullfrog Films and Icarus 
Films) are on both sides of a complimentary sword, we have been talking about 
this the last two days, and have thought of an experiment that we would like to 
put forward:

What if, when you license a film for streaming online, or subscribe to an 
entire collection, you could then also acquire any of those films on DVD for 
half price? So, if you were to subscribe to The Docuseek2 Collection, you could 
then buy any Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films DVD, for 50% off, during the entire 
time your license or subscription is in place.

Would this make it practical for more libraries to address both imperatives of 
collection development?  Would it make the tradeoffs a little less difficult?

We've discussed that this may reduce aggregate sales by the "film distribution" 
companies, but it might also make the transitions underway on both sides of the 
equation smoother?

We would like to find out, and so we (both companies) will make this offer 
available until 12/31/15:

Any institution that is currently licensing The Docuseek2 Collection, or 
commits to licensing The Docuseek2 Collection by December 31, 2015 (whether 
with a basic subscription, or via DS2's Evidence Based Acquisition program) 
will be able to purchase, while their license is in force, any title (from 
either Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films) that available from (or added to) The 
Docuseek2 Collection, at half price.

Both companies will leave this offer in place through the end of the year, and 
in January we will evaluate how it went (all of us together, hopefully) and 
whether or not we should continue, modify, or drop this idea.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this!

We'll be very interested to see what happens.

Thanks again for all the comments, and best for now.


Jonathan Miller

For Bullfrog Films & Icarus Films









From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Bergman, Barbara J
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 4:21 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

I think the one clear answer we've 

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Jonathan Miller]

Dear Susan

Thanks for asking these questions. The proximate cause was to try and respond 
to what we thought was expressed by some libraries: concerns about streaming 
and not having a permanent back up,  In discussing the idea amongst ourselves 
we did think that it might increase the number of DVDs sold to some customers - 
but not necessarily the amount of money spent. And yes, maybe it would 
encourage some to license or subscribe sooner rather than later. Perhaps we are 
wrong, perhaps there will be unexpected developments, or little interest or 
feeling that this helps, we don't know - but that's something that we think is 
worth finding out. Let's see,

As for your idea to swap the offer around, we didn't think of that, but we're 
open to it. What would you suggest? Maybe that can be our next experiment!

Best,

Jonathan

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Susan Albrecht
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 1:40 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

Jonathan,

I hope I don't sound snarky with this question, because I don't mean to be(!), 
but can you explain what the purpose is of offering the experiment with this 
particular setup?  Are you hoping to increase the number of streaming 
subscriptions? Hoping to bolster DVD sales?  Or something different?

I guess I don't see a whole lot of those who DO have a large commitment to 
streamed video already saying, "Gosh, we wish we could also buy the DVD, but as 
is, we're only able to afford the streaming."  What I'm seeing, rather, is a 
number of us saying, "Gosh, we wouldn't mind dabbling in streaming, but as is, 
we're only able to afford the DVD."  In other words, I'm surprised the 
experiment isn't the OPPOSITE:  Anyone who purchases "X" number of DVDs can add 
on the streamed versions for 50% off, or add a collection for a certain % 
discount.

Or maybe I'm missing the point altogether.  I recognize that's a distinct 
possibility!

Susan

Susan Albrecht
Graduate Fellowship Advisor
Library Media Acquisitions Manager
Wabash College Lilly Library
765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)
765-361-6295 fax
albre...@wabash.edu<mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>
Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships
www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films<http://www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films>

***
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
***

From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 10:23 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

I
've been snowed under by all the responses to my question! And I agree with 
Barb, one of the main things that we've known, but that has been brought home 
again here, is that no one size will fit all. I've been in this business (if it 
is a business) for over 35 years, and one thing I can say for sure: every year 
things get a bit more complicated.

In any case apparent from this discussion is that many of you, while 
acknowledging and, in most cases, accommodating the increasingly pervasive 
transition to digital delivery/streaming, DO want to have at least the option 
of also acquiring DVDs, whether as a back-up to loss of online access, and/or 
for the DVD's utility in its own right - and the notion of subscribing (for one 
 year or three years or whatever short of forever) to individual films, or 
large collections, is a difficult trade off of missions, and money, at best.

Given that we (and I write here on behalf of both Bullfrog Films and Icarus 
Films) are on both sides of a complimentary sword, we have been talking about 
this the last two days, and have thought of an experiment that we would like to 
put forward:

What if, when you license a film for streaming online, or subscribe to an 
entire collection, you could then also acquire any of those films on DVD for 
half price? So, if you were to subscribe to The Docuseek2 Collection, you could 
then buy any Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films DVD, for 50% off, during the entire 
time your license or subscription is in place.

Would this make it practical for more libraries to address both imperatives of 
collection development?  Would it make the tradeoffs a little less difficult?

We've discussed that this may reduce aggregate sales by the "film distribution" 
companies, but it might also make the transitions underway on both sides of the 
equation smoother?

We would like to find out, and so we (both companies) will make this offer 
available until 12/31/15:

Any institution that is currently licensing T

[Videolib] No more DVDs? - OK / Not

[Jonathan Miller]

I
've been snowed under by all the responses to my question! And I agree with 
Barb, one of the main things that we've known, but that has been brought home 
again here, is that no one size will fit all. I've been in this business (if it 
is a business) for over 35 years, and one thing I can say for sure: every year 
things get a bit more complicated.

In any case apparent from this discussion is that many of you, while 
acknowledging and, in most cases, accommodating the increasingly pervasive 
transition to digital delivery/streaming, DO want to have at least the option 
of also acquiring DVDs, whether as a back-up to loss of online access, and/or 
for the DVD's utility in its own right - and the notion of subscribing (for one 
 year or three years or whatever short of forever) to individual films, or 
large collections, is a difficult trade off of missions, and money, at best.

Given that we (and I write here on behalf of both Bullfrog Films and Icarus 
Films) are on both sides of a complimentary sword, we have been talking about 
this the last two days, and have thought of an experiment that we would like to 
put forward:

What if, when you license a film for streaming online, or subscribe to an 
entire collection, you could then also acquire any of those films on DVD for 
half price? So, if you were to subscribe to The Docuseek2 Collection, you could 
then buy any Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films DVD, for 50% off, during the entire 
time your license or subscription is in place.

Would this make it practical for more libraries to address both imperatives of 
collection development?  Would it make the tradeoffs a little less difficult?

We've discussed that this may reduce aggregate sales by the "film distribution" 
companies, but it might also make the transitions underway on both sides of the 
equation smoother?

We would like to find out, and so we (both companies) will make this offer 
available until 12/31/15:

Any institution that is currently licensing The Docuseek2 Collection, or 
commits to licensing The Docuseek2 Collection by December 31, 2015 (whether 
with a basic subscription, or via DS2's Evidence Based Acquisition program) 
will be able to purchase, while their license is in force, any title (from 
either Bullfrog Films or Icarus Films) that available from (or added to) The 
Docuseek2 Collection, at half price.

Both companies will leave this offer in place through the end of the year, and 
in January we will evaluate how it went (all of us together, hopefully) and 
whether or not we should continue, modify, or drop this idea.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this!

We'll be very interested to see what happens.

Thanks again for all the comments, and best for now.


Jonathan Miller

For Bullfrog Films & Icarus Films









From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Bergman, Barbara J
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 4:21 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

I think the one clear answer we've gotten out of this discussion is that there 
is no one right answer.  Academic libraries are pretty diverse. :)


Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State 
University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945 | 
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu<mailto:barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu>

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Bergman, Barbara J]

I think the one clear answer we've gotten out of this discussion is that there 
is no one right answer.  Academic libraries are pretty diverse. :)


Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State 
University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945 | 
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Elizabeth McMahon]

I have tried to keep up with this discussion, and so far I have not seen
any mention of streaming and public library collections. I frankly have no
idea if public libraries are collecting, to the extent possible, streamed
titles for patrons to access remotely. I am aware only of Overdrive, which
has been around for many years, and was predominantly second and third tier
titles and public domain features. Can anyone address this? I would be
especially keen hearing from Jim Davis of Docuseek and the man from Icarus
who posed this original kernel for a most fruitful discussion. I'd be very
interested in hearing from Criterion, Swank, Kanopy and the more
traditional "independent" and educational distributors, like Dennis Doros
at Milestone and Elizabeth Stanley at Bullfrog, and anyone from Filmmakers
Library (though I know they are repped by Alexander St. Press). And of
course i would love to hear from public librarians responsible for
acquisitions.

Thanks,
Elizabeth

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Bergman, Barbara J  wrote:

> I think the one clear answer we’ve gotten out of this discussion is that
> there is no one right answer.  Academic libraries are pretty diverse. J
>
>
>
>
>
> Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
> State University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945 | barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>


-- 
Elizabeth
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[elizabeth mcmahon]

Hi Michael!
This is definitely useful! I was a film/video/audio librarian and 
preservationist at NYPL for 15 years, around with the advent of the internet in 
libraries and going through all the different browsers back then (remember Alta 
Vista or Hotbot?). Fun, exciting times, and I remember when the Materials 
Acquisitions Office secured a license for Overdrive and Naxos for streamed 
media, this was in the 90s!!  Just like you said, they had poor circulation, 
and it was I think mainly because of two basic things: Unappealing collections 
and people's access to a computer. I have no idea what NYPL is doing now for 
streaming offerings. Things have changed radically since back then, and I would 
welcome being able to use my card to get a movie online from the library for 
free instead of paying for it on Amazon or Netflix. I appreciate you chiming in 
since this conversation is so dominated by academics, which is good, I am 
learning a lot, but these issues have an impact for public libraries, too, as 
you well know. I think the material available, the content, is just as 
important as the licensing. I am hoping the distributors join this conversation 
and address public librarians responsible for collection development!
Thanks again! Elizabeth
  From: Michael May <m...@dubuque.lib.ia.us>
 To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>; 
"elizab...@bullfrogfilms.com" <elizab...@bullfrogfilms.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 6:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
   
Hi Elizabeth and all,

I'm at a public library with about 42,500 registered patrons. Our Overdrive 
streaming videos are at http://dubuque.lib.overdrive.com/ and 
http://dubuque.lib.overdrive.com/screeningroom. I think Midwest Tape has a 
similar platform called Hoopla.

We have about 860 streaming videos in a mix of cost-per-circ collections, plus 
individual titles that we select and pay for outright. We've been building the 
streaming collections for about 18 months, but our circulation is still very 
low, between 70 to 100 checkouts per month, which is less than 0.5% of our 
monthly Blu-ray/DVD circulation. This low circulation seems to be due to small 
collection size, limited title selection, and lack of patron awareness and/or 
interest. Also, as far as I know, playback is essentially limited to phones, 
tablets, laptops, and desktops. There doesn't seem to be an easy way to stream 
to televisions.

We purchase Blu-rays and DVDs from library vendors like Midwest Tape and Baker 
& Taylor, as well as Amazon and occasionally from independent distributors and 
filmmakers. We almost always purchase home-use discs only, without performance 
rights. Over the last year, for example, we've purchased the home-use versions 
of Icarus Films' Dark Star: HR Giger's World, Red Knot, and A Spell To Ward Off 
The Darkness. I don't see those titles in Overdrive, so if they were not on 
Blu-ray or DVD, we wouldn't have added them.

Is this info helpful?

Mike

Michael May
Adult Services Librarian
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
360 West 11th Street
Dubuque, IA 52001-4697, USA
Phone: 563-589-4225 ext. 2244
Fax: 563-589-4217
Email: m...@dubuque.lib.ia.us


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] 
on behalf of Elizabeth McMahon [elizmcma...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 3:36 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu; Dennis Doros; elizab...@bullfrogfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

I have tried to keep up with this discussion, and so far I have not seen any 
mention of streaming and public library collections. I frankly have no idea if 
public libraries are collecting, to the extent possible, streamed titles for 
patrons to access remotely. I am aware only of Overdrive, which has been around 
for many years, and was predominantly second and third tier titles and public 
domain features. Can anyone address this? I would be especially keen hearing 
from Jim Davis of Docuseek and the man from Icarus who posed this original 
kernel for a most fruitful discussion. I'd be very interested in hearing from 
Criterion, Swank, Kanopy and the more traditional "independent" and educational 
distributors, like Dennis Doros at Milestone and Elizabeth Stanley at Bullfrog, 
and anyone from Filmmakers Library (though I know they are repped by Alexander 
St. Press). And of course i would love to hear from public librarians 
responsible for acquisitions.

Thanks,
Elizabeth

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Bergman, Barbara J 
<barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu<mailto:barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu>> wrote:
I think the one clear answer we’ve gotten out of this discussion is that there 
is no one right answer.  Academic libraries are pretty diverse. ☺


Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State 
University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945<tel:%28507%29%

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Michael May]

Hi Elizabeth and all,

I'm at a public library with about 42,500 registered patrons. Our Overdrive 
streaming videos are at http://dubuque.lib.overdrive.com/ and 
http://dubuque.lib.overdrive.com/screeningroom. I think Midwest Tape has a 
similar platform called Hoopla.

We have about 860 streaming videos in a mix of cost-per-circ collections, plus 
individual titles that we select and pay for outright. We've been building the 
streaming collections for about 18 months, but our circulation is still very 
low, between 70 to 100 checkouts per month, which is less than 0.5% of our 
monthly Blu-ray/DVD circulation. This low circulation seems to be due to small 
collection size, limited title selection, and lack of patron awareness and/or 
interest. Also, as far as I know, playback is essentially limited to phones, 
tablets, laptops, and desktops. There doesn't seem to be an easy way to stream 
to televisions.

We purchase Blu-rays and DVDs from library vendors like Midwest Tape and Baker 
& Taylor, as well as Amazon and occasionally from independent distributors and 
filmmakers. We almost always purchase home-use discs only, without performance 
rights. Over the last year, for example, we've purchased the home-use versions 
of Icarus Films' Dark Star: HR Giger's World, Red Knot, and A Spell To Ward Off 
The Darkness. I don't see those titles in Overdrive, so if they were not on 
Blu-ray or DVD, we wouldn't have added them.

Is this info helpful?

Mike

Michael May
Adult Services Librarian
Carnegie-Stout Public Library
360 West 11th Street
Dubuque, IA 52001-4697, USA
Phone: 563-589-4225 ext. 2244
Fax: 563-589-4217
Email: m...@dubuque.lib.ia.us


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] 
on behalf of Elizabeth McMahon [elizmcma...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 3:36 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu; Dennis Doros; elizab...@bullfrogfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

I have tried to keep up with this discussion, and so far I have not seen any 
mention of streaming and public library collections. I frankly have no idea if 
public libraries are collecting, to the extent possible, streamed titles for 
patrons to access remotely. I am aware only of Overdrive, which has been around 
for many years, and was predominantly second and third tier titles and public 
domain features. Can anyone address this? I would be especially keen hearing 
from Jim Davis of Docuseek and the man from Icarus who posed this original 
kernel for a most fruitful discussion. I'd be very interested in hearing from 
Criterion, Swank, Kanopy and the more traditional "independent" and educational 
distributors, like Dennis Doros at Milestone and Elizabeth Stanley at Bullfrog, 
and anyone from Filmmakers Library (though I know they are repped by Alexander 
St. Press). And of course i would love to hear from public librarians 
responsible for acquisitions.

Thanks,
Elizabeth

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Bergman, Barbara J 
<barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu<mailto:barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu>> wrote:
I think the one clear answer we’ve gotten out of this discussion is that there 
is no one right answer.  Academic libraries are pretty diverse. ☺


Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State 
University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945<tel:%28507%29%20389-5945> | 
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu<mailto:barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.




--
Elizabeth


This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Reynolds, Jo Ann]

We have changed our policy and will rarely, and only under certain 
circumstances, purchase the stream for feature films. Students can get them so 
much cheaper on demand when needed and we’re not going crazy trying to keep up 
with the licenses needed for class use.

Best,
Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 5:46 PM
To: brian Bolling; videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Another issue is that this seems all directed (understandably) and non fiction 
"educational media" For the most part feature films ( including many 
documentaries) are only not available with lifetime streaming and there is zero 
chance major studios would ever do it and in my mind little chance many indie 
feature and foreign rights holder would. You have a wide range of issues from 
say Citizen Kane to  Wild Strawberries were you can get a physical DVD and 
streaming rights of usually a year ( maybe  3 on Wild not sure), then you have 
the issue we have discussed where say Sony Classics won't ever license for 
streaming and Netflix won't make physical DVD copies. Basically I think 
everyone needs to be flexible but again I strongly advice buying a physical 
copy whenever you can.




On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Brian W Boling 
<brian.bol...@temple.edu<mailto:brian.bol...@temple.edu>> wrote:
One factor that I haven't yet seen in this discussion is the continued 
existence of the digital divide.

Working at an institution that has a high population of first generation 
college students, I'm well aware that our patrons don't always have robust 
enough home internet to watch streaming videos.  For this reason, and also 
because we've run into occasional issues with classroom computer firewalls not 
allowing the use of a stream, I typically try to buy the DVD of any title I 
license for streaming.
A print-on-demand option, if available, would help to lessen these concerns.
Brian.

Brian Boling
Media Services Librarian
Temple University Libraries
brian.bol...@temple.edu<mailto:brian.bol...@temple.edu>
Schedule a meeting during my office 
hours<http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Meghann Matwichuk]

I've always thought of a Library's role (especially an academic 
library's) as having two important facets that can be boiled down to:  
access now and access over time.  I realize that many factors come into 
play when determining the balance of those two factors (budget, space, 
staffing, etc.), but it concerns me that there seems to be fewer and 
fewer who are concerned about / able to consider that second factor, the 
"preservation" factor.  I am still very much a 'hard copy' person for 
that reason -- due to the many vagaries of streaming licensing, etc. it 
is largely (or wholly, in many cases) an ephemeral product -- great for 
'right now', but what happens down the line?  I realize that the optical 
disc format is less-than-ideal as far as preservation goes, but it beats 
a one- or three-year license by a long shot.  (Very few vendors are able 
to offer files in perpetuity.)

So yes, Jonathan, please consider a print-on-demand service.  Hard copy 
is still extremely highly valued by many.

-- 
Meghann Matwichuk, M.S.
Associate Librarian
Interim Head, Multimedia Collections and Services Department
Morris Library, University of Delaware
181 S. College Ave.
Newark, DE 19717
(302) 831-1475
http://library.udel.edu/filmandvideo
http://library.udel.edu/multimedia


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Laura Jenemann]

Hi everyone,

Major thanks to Jonathan Miller and the rest of the list for starting and 
creating a wonderful discussion.  This discussion in and of itself could serve 
as a how-to guide for learning about streaming media in libraries.

Regards,
Laura

Laura Jenemann
Media, Film Studies, and Dance Librarian
George Mason University
703-993-7593
ljene...@gmu.edu

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Brian W Boling
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 5:30 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

One factor that I haven't yet seen in this discussion is the continued 
existence of the digital divide.

Working at an institution that has a high population of first generation 
college students, I'm well aware that our patrons don't always have robust 
enough home internet to watch streaming videos.  For this reason, and also 
because we've run into occasional issues with classroom computer firewalls not 
allowing the use of a stream, I typically try to buy the DVD of any title I 
license for streaming.
A print-on-demand option, if available, would help to lessen these concerns.
Brian.

Brian Boling
Media Services Librarian
Temple University Libraries
brian.bol...@temple.edu<mailto:brian.bol...@temple.edu>
Schedule a meeting during my office 
hours<http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Susan Albrecht]

Jim,

I would say that you're correct in that statement about most of the limitations 
which have been identified relating to implementation over the actual streamed 
format.  However, I would add that there have been faculty concerns expressed 
about streaming which relate more to quality - or perhaps "quality of 
experience."  For instance, our film studies profs definitely seem to prefer a 
blu-ray disc to streaming, simply for the quality of the image and sound.  
There have also been gripes about lack of chaptering and, yes, the lack of 
extras which tend to come with DVDs but not streamed editions.

Granted, these are more commonly expressed concerns with feature films, rather 
than with docs, but I thought it might be worth pointing out.  Kanopy, for 
instance, includes a lot of foreign film, Criterion Collection titles, etc., 
and these are areas where, along with Swank Digital Campus and Criterion on 
Demand, I hear both kudos about convenience and simultaneous user access AND 
complaints about missing features and somewhat lower quality during projection. 
 (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with these; just reporting what I hear.)

Lastly, I don't think the management of licenses can be pooh-poohed at all.  
I'm not saying that you were doing that, but it's worth noting that, from all I 
hear, management of those licenses can become nightmare'ish.  Not everyone has 
the personnel or campus structure to support that management, and it can 
decidedly add to the cost in terms of employee hours required.

Susan Albrecht
Graduate Fellowship Advisor
Library Media Acquisitions Manager
Wabash College Lilly Library
765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)
765-361-6295 fax
albre...@wabash.edu<mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>
Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships
www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films<http://www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films>

***
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
***

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Davis
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 11:53 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

It is very useful to hear the perspective of media librarians on this question.

It sounds to me like most of the limitations of streaming mentioned are not a 
feature of streaming per se, but the way it has been implemented by different 
vendors.

For example, there is no technical reason why supplemental materials found on 
DVDs can not be released for streaming along with the main work. And certainly 
any text-based supplemental materials like transcripts or whatever work much 
better via a browser than a DVD.

Nor is there is any technical reason why single titles cannot be licensed for 
life-of-file without licensing an entire collection / database / catalogue.

While digital data seems ephemeral, in practice it has been anything but, as 
the persistence of all sorts of data on the Internet has shown. A digital file 
is easily preservable and not tied to any specific physical medium, but easily 
re-born, as it were, as new playback devices appear.

As to ownership, there is no reason why a file can not be delivered along with 
a life-of-file license. Depending on the license terms (and this I realize is a 
very big caveat), the file potentially is your fall-back against the streaming 
platform dropping the film, assuming you can work out other arrangements for 
delivering the content (either via a local solution or a third party service). 
If you possess the file, and depending on the rights negotiated, the 
disappearance of the streaming platform does not seem different from the 
disappearance of the means to view any particular medium, whether it be 16mm 
projectors or VHS decks or possibly DVD drives.

I can see where there might be more overhead in dealing with single streaming 
licenses than with individual DVDs (certainly for whatever reason sorting out 
license agreements with institutions is more complicated), but those 
limitations seem more historical or institutional than a problem with the 
format per se.


Jim Davis
Docuseek2<http://www.docuseek2.com>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jim Davis]

It is very useful to hear the perspective of media librarians on this question. 

It sounds to me like most of the limitations of streaming mentioned are not a 
feature of streaming per se, but the way it has been implemented by different 
vendors. 

For example, there is no technical reason why supplemental materials found on 
DVDs can not be released for streaming along with the main work. And certainly 
any text-based supplemental materials like transcripts or whatever work much 
better via a browser than a DVD.

Nor is there is any technical reason why single titles cannot be licensed for 
life-of-file without licensing an entire collection / database / catalogue. 

While digital data seems ephemeral, in practice it has been anything but, as 
the persistence of all sorts of data on the Internet has shown. A digital file 
is easily preservable and not tied to any specific physical medium, but easily 
re-born, as it were, as new playback devices appear.

As to ownership, there is no reason why a file can not be delivered along with 
a life-of-file license. Depending on the license terms (and this I realize is a 
very big caveat), the file potentially is your fall-back against the streaming 
platform dropping the film, assuming you can work out other arrangements for 
delivering the content (either via a local solution or a third party service). 
If you possess the file, and depending on the rights negotiated, the 
disappearance of the streaming platform does not seem different from the 
disappearance of the means to view any particular medium, whether it be 16mm 
projectors or VHS decks or possibly DVD drives.

I can see where there might be more overhead in dealing with single streaming 
licenses than with individual DVDs (certainly for whatever reason sorting out 
license agreements with institutions is more complicated), but those 
limitations seem more historical or institutional than a problem with the 
format per se.


Jim Davis
Docuseek2


On Nov 4, 2015, at 7:46 AM, Meghann Matwichuk wrote:

> I've always thought of a Library's role (especially an academic 
> library's) as having two important facets that can be boiled down to:  
> access now and access over time.  I realize that many factors come into 
> play when determining the balance of those two factors (budget, space, 
> staffing, etc.), but it concerns me that there seems to be fewer and 
> fewer who are concerned about / able to consider that second factor, the 
> "preservation" factor.  I am still very much a 'hard copy' person for 
> that reason -- due to the many vagaries of streaming licensing, etc. it 
> is largely (or wholly, in many cases) an ephemeral product -- great for 
> 'right now', but what happens down the line?  I realize that the optical 
> disc format is less-than-ideal as far as preservation goes, but it beats 
> a one- or three-year license by a long shot.  (Very few vendors are able 
> to offer files in perpetuity.)
> 
> So yes, Jonathan, please consider a print-on-demand service.  Hard copy 
> is still extremely highly valued by many.
> 
> -- 
> Meghann Matwichuk, M.S.
> Associate Librarian
> Interim Head, Multimedia Collections and Services Department
> Morris Library, University of Delaware
> 181 S. College Ave.
> Newark, DE 19717
> (302) 831-1475
> http://library.udel.edu/filmandvideo
> http://library.udel.edu/multimedia
> 
> 
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
> distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jim Davis]

I'm not pooh-poohing (great verb BTW)(nor did I think you were saying that I 
was) -- I am very sympathetic to this being an issue for librarians in having 
to deal with streaming. And it's true on our side of the transaction as well -- 
one of the big hassles for us is having to work through a license agreement 
with most customers. And I don't recall this ever being an issue when a school 
bought a DVD. I suppose part of the reason is that streaming is a descendent of 
other e-resources, and DVD has descended from books and video. And the 
possibilities of what can be done with an e-resource (testament in itself to 
the flexibility of digital formats) has spawned a legal golem to rein it in?

Jim Davis
Docuseek2


On Nov 4, 2015, at 11:11 AM, Susan Albrecht wrote:

> Jim,
>  
> I would say that you’re correct in that statement about most of the 
> limitations which have been identified relating to implementation over the 
> actual streamed format.  However, I would add that there have been faculty 
> concerns expressed about streaming which relate more to quality – or perhaps 
> “quality of experience.”  For instance, our film studies profs definitely 
> seem to prefer a blu-ray disc to streaming, simply for the quality of the 
> image and sound.  There have also been gripes about lack of chaptering and, 
> yes, the lack of extras which tend to come with DVDs but not streamed 
> editions. 
>  
> Granted, these are more commonly expressed concerns with feature films, 
> rather than with docs, but I thought it might be worth pointing out.  Kanopy, 
> for instance, includes a lot of foreign film, Criterion Collection titles, 
> etc., and these are areas where, along with Swank Digital Campus and 
> Criterion on Demand, I hear both kudos about convenience and simultaneous 
> user access AND complaints about missing features and somewhat lower quality 
> during projection.  (I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with these; just 
> reporting what I hear.)
>  
> Lastly, I don’t think the management of licenses can be pooh-poohed at all.  
> I’m not saying that you were doing that, but it’s worth noting that, from all 
> I hear, management of those licenses can become nightmare’ish.  Not everyone 
> has the personnel or campus structure to support that management, and it can 
> decidedly add to the cost in terms of employee hours required.
>  
> Susan Albrecht
> Graduate Fellowship Advisor
> Library Media Acquisitions Manager
> Wabash College Lilly Library
> 765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)
> 765-361-6295 fax
> albre...@wabash.edu
> Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships
> www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films
>  
> ***
> "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
> ***
>  
> From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
> [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Davis
> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 11:53 AM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>  
> It is very useful to hear the perspective of media librarians on this 
> question. 
>  
> It sounds to me like most of the limitations of streaming mentioned are not a 
> feature of streaming per se, but the way it has been implemented by different 
> vendors. 
>  
> For example, there is no technical reason why supplemental materials found on 
> DVDs can not be released for streaming along with the main work. And 
> certainly any text-based supplemental materials like transcripts or whatever 
> work much better via a browser than a DVD.
>  
> Nor is there is any technical reason why single titles cannot be licensed for 
> life-of-file without licensing an entire collection / database / catalogue. 
>  
> While digital data seems ephemeral, in practice it has been anything but, as 
> the persistence of all sorts of data on the Internet has shown. A digital 
> file is easily preservable and not tied to any specific physical medium, but 
> easily re-born, as it were, as new playback devices appear.
>  
> As to ownership, there is no reason why a file can not be delivered along 
> with a life-of-file license. Depending on the license terms (and this I 
> realize is a very big caveat), the file potentially is your fall-back against 
> the streaming platform dropping the film, assuming you can work out other 
> arrangements for delivering the content (either via a local solution or a 
> third party service). If you possess the file, and depending on the rights 
> negotiated, the disappearance of the streaming platform does not seem 
> different from the disappearance of the means to view any particular medium,

[Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jonathan Miller]

Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I'm serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Moshiri, Farhad]

Dear Jonathan,

We just ordered a DVD from your company last week. Recently, there has been 
discussion on this topic in this listserv. I can speak for my university only. 
We develop our collection in both formats. We do have some streaming and we 
also have a large collection of DVDs. Students want only streaming. Faculty 
don't care what format is the program as long as there is an easy to use 
playback machine. They are interested in having access to specific contents 
only. We do not have a large budget for AV so if your company decides not to 
produce DVDs, we cannot subscribe to Docuseek2 instead and we are forced to 
tell our faculty that we no longer can get your programs. The problem for 
university libraries with small budget for AV is that we need individual 
programs from a variety of publishers. But each of these publishers are in a 
different streaming platform such as Docuseek2, Kanopy, Alexander Street Press, 
Infobase, etc. We are never able to subscribe to all of these services. But we 
are able to purchase individual DVDs from each of them as needed.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway - CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842









From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:19 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I'm serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>




This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain 
privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email and any 
attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please immediately delete the email and any attachments from your system and 
notify the sender. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for 
your compliance.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Gail Gawlik]

We would never buy a title that is only available through streaming
unless it came as some sort of package deal through the consortium we
belong to.  For instance, we do subscribe to the Films on Demand titles.
 In a similar way, we would never purchase an e-book unless it was some
sort of a package deal.
 
On the other hand, our AV budget is so teeny-tiny, that we could never
afford to buy a DVD directly from Icarus.  Makes me sad because they
have some really great titles.
 
:( Gail Gawlik
Assistant Director of Library Technical Services
Brown Library
University of St. Francis
Joliet, IL

>>> Jonathan Miller  11/3/2015 9:19 AM >>>

Dear Videolib friends
 
As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and
currently has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and
universities streaming access to our collection over the internet. 
 
Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of
them. 
 
It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we
sell the last one of an older one. 
 
What do you think would happen if we did that? 
 
How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor
or collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY
available via streaming?
 
I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
(perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do
you think?  Thanks! 
 
Curiously yours, 
 
Jonathan Miller
 
 
 
Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201
 
www.IcarusFilms.com ( http://www.icarusfilms.com/ )
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com ( http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/ )
 
Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com
 

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jonathan Miller]

Dear Farhad

Thank you = I appreciate the problem with having to license a big collection - 
that makes perfect sense. What if the title was available to stream 
individually, by itself, for the same, or lower price, than the DVD?

Jonathan


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Moshiri, Farhad
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 10:42 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Jonathan,

We just ordered a DVD from your company last week. Recently, there has been 
discussion on this topic in this listserv. I can speak for my university only. 
We develop our collection in both formats. We do have some streaming and we 
also have a large collection of DVDs. Students want only streaming. Faculty 
don't care what format is the program as long as there is an easy to use 
playback machine. They are interested in having access to specific contents 
only. We do not have a large budget for AV so if your company decides not to 
produce DVDs, we cannot subscribe to Docuseek2 instead and we are forced to 
tell our faculty that we no longer can get your programs. The problem for 
university libraries with small budget for AV is that we need individual 
programs from a variety of publishers. But each of these publishers are in a 
different streaming platform such as Docuseek2, Kanopy, Alexander Street Press, 
Infobase, etc. We are never able to subscribe to all of these services. But we 
are able to purchase individual DVDs from each of them as needed.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway - CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842









From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:19 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I'm serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>




This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain 
privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email and any 
attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please immediately delete the email and any attachments from your system and 
notify the sender. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for 
your compliance.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Kerbel, Michael]

Can you consider making dvds on demand (with the understanding that the 
turnaround may be longer than it is now)?

Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 3, 2015, at 10:23 AM, Jonathan Miller 
> wrote:

Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jessica Rosner]

I think it is very important to have physical copies. Rights change ,
contracts expire. I was literally discussing this last weekend with Nancy
Gerstman of Zeitgeist who said they were not going to do a physical release
of their new film COURT. I suggested that they make a DVD-R available
without chapters or fancy boxing and she said she could do that. I think
the technology of making a bare bones DVD is pretty easy and cheap. I urge
educational distributors in particular to keep this option.
This is how WB and some other studios are making many wonderful films with
limited demand available and you can even skip the artwork

Jessica

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Chris Lewis  wrote:

> For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with
> in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and
> DVDs from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out
> of business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible
> version. That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a
> streaming version hosted by the distributor.
>
> I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the
> average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching
> needs are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are
> perfect for a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor
> has gone out of business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some
> professors figure out a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot
> for a couple decades.  So my hope was that independent educational
> distributors would be at the tail end of the DVD weaning process.
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Videolib friends
>>
>>
>>
>> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently
>> has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities
>> streaming access to our collection over the internet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
>> titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
>> producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell
>> the last one of an older one.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think would happen if we did that?
>>
>>
>>
>> How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor
>> or collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY
>> available via streaming?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
>> (perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you
>> think?  Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Curiously yours,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Miller
>>
>> President
>> Icarus Films
>>
>> 32 Court Street, 21st Floor
>>
>> Brooklyn, NY 11201
>>
>>
>>
>> www.IcarusFilms.com 
>>
>> http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com 
>>
>>
>>
>> Tel 1.718.488.8900
>>
>> Fax 1.718.488.8642
>>
>> jmil...@icarusfilms.com
>>
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>> producers and distributors.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>


-- 
Jessica Rosner
Media Consultant
224-545-3897 (cell)
212-627-1785 (land line)
jessicapros...@gmail.com
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Gisele Genevieve Tanasse]

Well, speaking just for my institution-- as a person who devotes a
significant amount of time to securing permission to make DVD copies and
digital "preservation" copies of video content made freely available on the
web-- I would be OK (and I say that with wincing, pained hesitation) with a
digital distribution model that allows for life of file ownership with an
upcharge to sell me a license to make a DVD for the life of that DVD.
Personally my favorite model is that of California Newsreel, but I
understand that producing DVDs, especially when some institutions may not
be interested in them, is an expense to distributors.

The greatest lesson I learned from participating in Video-at-Risk, was how,
over time, because of the nature of video distribution, we became an
unintentional archive-- even though our primary mission was, and still is,
to circulate films for instruction.  For a large collection like
Berkeley's, with a stable collections budget, and plenty of storage space,
we find ourselves the accidental custodian of content that was once readily
commercially available, where we hold one of few copies--if not the ONLY
copy-- left in an institution.

People like to tell me that everything will be streaming in a few years (or
that everything is streaming now!), my response is always that everything
that will make commercial sense to stream will be streamed.  There are a
great number of titles in my collection, that my faculty use, that don't
fit into that model.  I can't tell you how many filmmakers have contacted
me over the years to ask to make a new "master" from our Umatic tapes,
because all they have is a 3rd, 4th or 5th generation VHS tape.  That is my
greatest fear with switching to a streaming only model, especially where we
are paying for access and not local ownership-- that we shirk the
responsibility that an institution like Berkeley has to  ensure that the
cultural record is preserved.  That said, my digital dream, Jonathan, is
that streaming is somehow the model that allows for the end of 'out of
printness' -- but the issue with many a great doc is relicensing footage--
and I just don't see that model shifting to allow for even the best
distributors to perpetually own rights to all the films in their catalogs.

Not your typical customer, but always a fan and well-wisher,
Gisele



Gisèle Tanasse

Head, Media Resources Center

150 Moffitt Library #6000
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-6000
PH: 510-642-8197
BCAL: nerdpo...@berkeley.edu
NOTE: PART TIME SCHEDULE Monday-Thurs 8AM-2PM

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Randal Baier <rba...@emich.edu> wrote:

> *" ...
>  so soon as it steps forth as a commodity, it is changed into something
> transcendent ..."*
>
> A serious question and certainly something to think about.
>
> We are still purchasing DVDs because we don't yet have the streaming use
> to warrant a rental-type arrangement, which is essentially what the
> subscription/licensing has become. And another aspect is the added value
> that many of the DVDs have with extra features, data, still images, etc.
>
> I wonder if a DVD on demand (um, on request) model would work? You could
> go completely to streamed content but still make the DVDs available to
> those who need to continue using them. Or make good web sites that provide
> the ancillary material.
>
> I will say that spending $350 for a DVD that might have a very short shelf
> life would be the same as spending that $350 for a 3-yr. streaming license.
> If it's not played at all after three years what's the difference? With a
> PDA or EBA model you might be able to have added availability and viewing
> during that period, so turnover would be something that might be an
> advantage of "all streaming, all the time."
>
> Faculty are now preferring streamed content, but we still make choices to
> get DVDs based on their cost over time. (oops, the DVD cost not the faculty
> cost!) I guess another matter is the have and have not issue with $$$
> resources as well. For some it's a matter of affordability.
>
> Yet don't forget one thing: the precious aura of a held object. We NEED
> our *Nosferatu*s!!!
>
> But, of course, you don't have to take my word for it --
> http://web.stanford.edu/~davies/Symbsys100-Spring0708/Marx-Commodity-Fetishism.pdf
>
>
>
> Continually changing the forms of materials furnished by Nature,
>
> I remain ...
>
> ==
> Randal Baier
> Eastern Michigan University
> Ypsilanti, Michigan 48197
> (734) 487-2520
> rba...@emich.edu
> tweets @rbaier – skypes @ randalbaier
> “... do not all strange sounds thrill us as human
> till we have learned to refer them to their proper
> source?” -Thoreau, mss., Journal 9: 1854-1855
>
>
> ------
> *From: *"Jonathan Miller" 

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Nell J Chenault]

Yes, there is the out of print/distribution issue.

Another issue is preservation and interlibrary loan.  With current
streaming or download licensing, use is limited to your users for as long
as the distributor has the right to distribute only.

Several of us were discussing the importance of purchasing perpetual rights
or a physical title if a title is core for your library, and not just
relying on distributors.  As many of us have found when we go to change
formats, titles go out of print after the rights used in making a film
expire and for many other reasons.  They are generally not out of copyright!

Nell Chenault
VCU Libraries



On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Jessica Rosner 
wrote:

> I think it is very important to have physical copies. Rights change ,
> contracts expire. I was literally discussing this last weekend with Nancy
> Gerstman of Zeitgeist who said they were not going to do a physical release
> of their new film COURT. I suggested that they make a DVD-R available
> without chapters or fancy boxing and she said she could do that. I think
> the technology of making a bare bones DVD is pretty easy and cheap. I urge
> educational distributors in particular to keep this option.
> This is how WB and some other studios are making many wonderful films with
> limited demand available and you can even skip the artwork
>
> Jessica
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Chris Lewis  wrote:
>
>> For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with
>> in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and
>> DVDs from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out
>> of business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible
>> version. That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a
>> streaming version hosted by the distributor.
>>
>> I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because
>> the average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching
>> needs are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are
>> perfect for a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor
>> has gone out of business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some
>> professors figure out a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot
>> for a couple decades.  So my hope was that independent educational
>> distributors would be at the tail end of the DVD weaning process.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller > > wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Videolib friends
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and
>>> currently has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and
>>> universities streaming access to our collection over the internet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
>>> titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
>>> producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell
>>> the last one of an older one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you think would happen if we did that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor
>>> or collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY
>>> available via streaming?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
>>> (perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you
>>> think?  Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Curiously yours,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan Miller
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan Miller
>>>
>>> President
>>> Icarus Films
>>>
>>> 32 Court Street, 21st Floor
>>>
>>> Brooklyn, NY 11201
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.IcarusFilms.com 
>>>
>>> http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel 1.718.488.8900
>>>
>>> Fax 1.718.488.8642
>>>
>>> jmil...@icarusfilms.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>> producers and distributors.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257
>>
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>> an effective 

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Dennis Doros]

Michael! We agree! And actually, it's an idea I hadn't considered, so thank
you.

My sadness would be the bonus features. During production work, I get to
discover so many cool things. For our current one, Losing Ground, I found
the negative for the cinematographer's lost 7-minute student film from the
1970s, TRANSMAGNIFICAN DAMBAMUALITY (yes, you heard me! and I can even tell
you how to pronounce it) and it's one of my favorite films of the year. I
find DVD production to be a very creative process. Otherwise, I'm just
restoring and releasing the film. I suspect that the intelligent viewers
feel the same way about seeing them.


Best regards,
Dennis Doros
Milestone Film & Video
PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640
Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com

Watch Turner Classic Movies' Tribute to Milestone Films@25 on November 12!
<http://www.tcm.com/this-month/article/1134849%7C0/th-Anniversary-of-Milestone-Films.html>


On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <
brew...@email.arizona.edu> wrote:

> If there is no physical copy, then we lose certainty in being able to take
> advantage of exceptions to copyright like fair use,
> replacement/preservation (under section 108), etc., since digital copies
> that are not in physical form would always be licensed.
>
>
>
> Michael Brewer | Librarian | Head, Research & Learning |
> brew...@email.arizona.edu
>
>
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Jessica Rosner
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 03, 2015 10:19 AM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>
>
>
> I think it is very important to have physical copies. Rights change ,
> contracts expire. I was literally discussing this last weekend with Nancy
> Gerstman of Zeitgeist who said they were not going to do a physical release
> of their new film COURT. I suggested that they make a DVD-R available
> without chapters or fancy boxing and she said she could do that. I think
> the technology of making a bare bones DVD is pretty easy and cheap. I urge
> educational distributors in particular to keep this option.
>
> This is how WB and some other studios are making many wonderful films with
> limited demand available and you can even skip the artwork
>
> Jessica
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Chris Lewis <cle...@american.edu> wrote:
>
> For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with
> in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and
> DVDs from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out
> of business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible
> version. That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a
> streaming version hosted by the distributor.
>
> I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the
> average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching
> needs are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are
> perfect for a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor
> has gone out of business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some
> professors figure out a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot
> for a couple decades.  So my hope was that independent educational
> distributors would be at the tail end of the DVD weaning process.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Videolib friends
>
>
>
> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently
> has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities
> streaming access to our collection over the internet.
>
>
>
> Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
> titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.
>
>
>
> It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
> producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell
> the last one of an older one.
>
>
>
> What do you think would happen if we did that?
>
>
>
> How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or
> collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available
> via streaming?
>
>
>
> I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
> (perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you
> think?  Thanks!
>
>
>
> Curiously yours,
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
> President
> Icarus Fil

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm)]

If there is no physical copy, then we lose certainty in being able to take 
advantage of exceptions to copyright like fair use, replacement/preservation 
(under section 108), etc., since digital copies that are not in physical form 
would always be licensed.

Michael Brewer | Librarian | Head, Research & Learning | 
brew...@email.arizona.edu<mailto:brew...@email.arizona.edu>

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 10:19 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

I think it is very important to have physical copies. Rights change , contracts 
expire. I was literally discussing this last weekend with Nancy Gerstman of 
Zeitgeist who said they were not going to do a physical release of their new 
film COURT. I suggested that they make a DVD-R available without chapters or 
fancy boxing and she said she could do that. I think the technology of making a 
bare bones DVD is pretty easy and cheap. I urge educational distributors in 
particular to keep this option.
This is how WB and some other studios are making many wonderful films with 
limited demand available and you can even skip the artwork
Jessica

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Chris Lewis 
<cle...@american.edu<mailto:cle...@american.edu>> wrote:
For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.



--
Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.



--
Jessica Rosner
Media Consultant
224-545-3897 (cell)
212-627-1785 (land line)
jessicapros...@gmail.com<mailto:jessicapros...@gmail.com>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively d

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Judith Dancoff]

; NOTE: PART TIME SCHEDULE Monday-Thurs 8AM-2PM
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Randal Baier <rba...@emich.edu> wrote:
>
>> *" ...
>>  so soon as it steps forth as a commodity, it is changed into something
>> transcendent ..."*
>>
>> A serious question and certainly something to think about.
>>
>> We are still purchasing DVDs because we don't yet have the streaming use
>> to warrant a rental-type arrangement, which is essentially what the
>> subscription/licensing has become. And another aspect is the added value
>> that many of the DVDs have with extra features, data, still images, etc.
>>
>> I wonder if a DVD on demand (um, on request) model would work? You could
>> go completely to streamed content but still make the DVDs available to
>> those who need to continue using them. Or make good web sites that provide
>> the ancillary material.
>>
>> I will say that spending $350 for a DVD that might have a very short
>> shelf life would be the same as spending that $350 for a 3-yr. streaming
>> license. If it's not played at all after three years what's the difference?
>> With a PDA or EBA model you might be able to have added availability and
>> viewing during that period, so turnover would be something that might be an
>> advantage of "all streaming, all the time."
>>
>> Faculty are now preferring streamed content, but we still make choices to
>> get DVDs based on their cost over time. (oops, the DVD cost not the faculty
>> cost!) I guess another matter is the have and have not issue with $$$
>> resources as well. For some it's a matter of affordability.
>>
>> Yet don't forget one thing: the precious aura of a held object. We NEED
>> our *Nosferatu*s!!!
>>
>> But, of course, you don't have to take my word for it --
>> http://web.stanford.edu/~davies/Symbsys100-Spring0708/Marx-Commodity-Fetishism.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> Continually changing the forms of materials furnished by Nature,
>>
>> I remain ...
>>
>> ==
>> Randal Baier
>> Eastern Michigan University
>> Ypsilanti, Michigan 48197
>> (734) 487-2520
>> rba...@emich.edu
>> tweets @rbaier – skypes @ randalbaier
>> “... do not all strange sounds thrill us as human
>> till we have learned to refer them to their proper
>> source?” -Thoreau, mss., Journal 9: 1854-1855
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Jonathan Miller" <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
>> *To: *videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 3, 2015 10:19:08 AM
>> *Subject: *[Videolib] No more DVDs?
>>
>> Dear Videolib friends
>>
>>
>>
>> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently
>> has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities
>> streaming access to our collection over the internet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
>> titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
>> producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell
>> the last one of an older one.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think would happen if we did that?
>>
>>
>>
>> How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor
>> or collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY
>> available via streaming?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
>> (perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you
>> think?  Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Curiously yours,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Miller
>>
>> President
>> Icarus Films
>>
>> 32 Court Street, 21st Floor
>>
>> Brooklyn, NY 11201
>>
>>
>>
>> www.IcarusFilms.com <http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
>>
>> http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com <http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tel 1.718.488.8900
>>
>> Fax 1.718.488.8642
>>
>> jmil...@icarusfilms.com
>>
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evol

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Chris Lewis]

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and
DVDs from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out
of business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible
version. That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a
streaming version hosted by the distributor.

I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching
needs are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are
perfect for a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor
has gone out of business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some
professors figure out a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot
for a couple decades.  So my hope was that independent educational
distributors would be at the tail end of the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
wrote:

> Dear Videolib friends
>
>
>
> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently
> has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities
> streaming access to our collection over the internet.
>
>
>
> Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
> titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.
>
>
>
> It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
> producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell
> the last one of an older one.
>
>
>
> What do you think would happen if we did that?
>
>
>
> How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or
> collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available
> via streaming?
>
>
>
> I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
> (perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you
> think?  Thanks!
>
>
>
> Curiously yours,
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
> President
> Icarus Films
>
> 32 Court Street, 21st Floor
>
> Brooklyn, NY 11201
>
>
>
> www.IcarusFilms.com 
>
> http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com 
>
>
>
> Tel 1.718.488.8900
>
> Fax 1.718.488.8642
>
> jmil...@icarusfilms.com
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>


-- 
Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Susan Albrecht]

I honestly would be very, very disappointed if DVDs were discontinued by 
Icarus!  I know that, as a small residential college, we are different than big 
universities and/or those with lots of distance ed and online courses.  Still, 
I also know that we are not unique and that there are many small schools out 
there purchasing film in physical format.  I definitely still attempt to build 
a collection, not just acquire access.

Randal alluded to the budget thing, and I’ll just say, “Yes!”  For me, it still 
makes most sense to use our limited dollars to purchase DVDs, rather than 
arrange for streaming.  Yes, docs can be pricey in DVD format, too, but having 
them available for years and years as opposed to 1-year or 3-year licenses 
matters.  And DVD is DEFINITELY preferred to short-term licensing of an 
individual title.  That screams “rental” to me, and that’s just not something 
our budget can support.  Sarah mentioned buying feature films in DVD format, 
and it’s true that the difference is more marked there, where the DVD only 
costs $25.  So “bang for your buck” is absolutely more apparent in the feature 
film realm, but it still holds on the doc and educational side for us, too.

Please don’t stop! ☺

Susan

Susan Albrecht
Graduate Fellowship Advisor
Library Media Acquisitions Manager
Wabash College Lilly Library
765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)
765-361-6295 fax
albre...@wabash.edu<mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>
Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships
www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films<http://www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films>

***
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
***

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.



--
Chris Lewis  American University Library 

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Michael S Gaffney]

Hi Jonathan,

The very issue of DVDs versus streamed video titles is an upcoming topic
for a meeting here at Bobst Library, NYU, specifically with regard to the
proposal to subscribe to Docuseek2.  I am in favor of continuing to
purchase DVDs, even if the titles are also provided as streaming files.
When a DVD goes out of print, at least you still have the DVD.  Can you
guarantee that a streamed video provided through Docuseek2 will always be
available?  If not, then ownership of a DVD is critical if programs or
curricula develop around access to certain titles.  If a streamed title
gets few or no play "hits" over a certain period of time, would that title
be dropped in the future?  What if you lose the license to stream a certain
title?  Then that video is not available to someone in the future who may
want to view it.  A video can sit on a shelf for years waiting for the next
researcher to request it.  It can never happen with a withdrawn streaming
file, for it will cease to exist.  To me, that is the key difference
between electronic and "hard" video sources for an academic research
library. Streaming is a very powerful tool for ready and widespread access
to video titles.  But the desire for convenience seems to be driving the
conversation more than concerns for the durability of the resources.  Don't
throw out the baby with the bath water, just yet. Give it some more time.

Regards,

Michael Gaffney
Video Collections Assoc.
Avery Fisher Center / Bobst Library
New York University

m...@nyu.edu / 212-998-2579

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
wrote:

> Dear Videolib friends
>
>
>
> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently
> has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities
> streaming access to our collection over the internet.
>
>
>
> Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
> titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.
>
>
>
> It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
> producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell
> the last one of an older one.
>
>
>
> What do you think would happen if we did that?
>
>
>
> How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or
> collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available
> via streaming?
>
>
>
> I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
> (perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you
> think?  Thanks!
>
>
>
> Curiously yours,
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
> President
> Icarus Films
>
> 32 Court Street, 21st Floor
>
> Brooklyn, NY 11201
>
>
>
> www.IcarusFilms.com 
>
> http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com 
>
>
>
> Tel 1.718.488.8900
>
> Fax 1.718.488.8642
>
> jmil...@icarusfilms.com
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Sayre, J. Richard]

We would also pass on the purchase.  Not a fan of these limited streaming 
license periods.  If I’m going to spend $250-350 on a video, I want a physical 
copy of it.  We do have a subscription to Alexander Street Video, which is 
great, but that’s it on the streaming for us so far.

Rick

[Description: cid:image001.png@01CD844B.D2A191B0]

J. Richard Sayre
Library Director
Hewes Library
rsa...@monmouthcollege.edu<mailto:rsa...@monmouthcollege.edu>
http://library.monmouthcollege.edu<http://library.monmouthcollege.edu/>


Monmouth College
700 East Broadway
Monmouth IL 61462-1998
309-457-2192 office

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Reynolds, Jo Ann
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 3:24 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

With our current policy we would pass on the purchase. We just wouldn’t buy it. 
Maybe, if it was really cheap we would but it’s also the labor cost of 
maintaining a teaching collection that one has to keep checking to see if the 
titles are still active is just too high, as well.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu]<mailto:[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu]>
 On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:15 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

My question though is: What if you can’t get the DVD?

And if we only offer a 1 or 3 year license (Say for the sake of argument), and 
professor wants to use a film – what do you do?

JM



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Hutchison, Jane
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:09 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?


​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of file 
format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.



Regards, Jane Hutchison

William Paterson University


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann 
<jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu<mailto:jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently h

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Sarah E. McCleskey]

This is a very interesting discussion. I think it depends on the kind of 
library you are and the type of collecting you are doing.

Our collection has very much been developed over the years in response to the 
needs of the teaching faculty. Most items have had some use, because most items 
were bought upon request. Over the years, I have transitioned those very 
popular titles to DVD, and now to streaming. But I’m not trying to collect at a 
research level, or to try to purchase everything in perpetuity; it’s not within 
the scope of the collection here. Maybe I am doing future patrons a disservice, 
but at the moment I am getting the current patrons what they want.

So, my licensing would look very different from someone like Susan at a small 
liberal arts college, or Jo Ann, at an ARL library.

I totally see everyone’s point in this discussion. Especially the 
preservation/Section 108 dimension. I don’t think there is a right or wrong 
answer, just many different solutions for many different types of collections.


Sarah

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:29 PM
To: Videolib <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Speaking for myself, I live with what I can get. Not always happy about it but 
the vicissitudes of the marketplace kinda dictate it. If the price is too high 
or the terms too restrictive, we go without.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
My question though is: What if you can’t get the DVD?

And if we only offer a 1 or 3 year license (Say for the sake of argument), and 
professor wants to use a film – what do you do?

JM



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>]
 On Behalf Of Hutchison, Jane
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:09 PM

To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?


​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of file 
format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.



Regards, Jane Hutchison

William Paterson University


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann 
<jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu<mailto:jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to pro

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Chris Lewis]

Speaking for myself, I live with what I can get. Not always happy about it
but the vicissitudes of the marketplace kinda dictate it. If the price is
too high or the terms too restrictive, we go without.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Jonathan Miller <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
wrote:

> My question though is: What if you can’t get the DVD?
>
>
>
> And if we only offer a 1 or 3 year license (Say for the sake of argument),
> and professor wants to use a film – what do you do?
>
>
>
> JM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Hutchison, Jane
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:09 PM
>
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>
>
>
> ​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of file
> format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.
>
>
>
> Regards, Jane Hutchison
>
> William Paterson University
> --
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann <
> jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>
>
>
> For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video
> with perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’
> comments on how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.
>
>
>
> The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It
> limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the
> same material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.
>
>
>
> Jo Ann
>
>
>
> Jo Ann Reynolds
>
> Reserve Services Coordinator
>
> University of Connecticut
>
> Homer Babbidge Library
>
> 369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
>
> Storrs, CT  06269-1005
>
> 860-486-1406 voice
>
> 860-486-0584 fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [
> mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu
> <videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Chris Lewis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
> *To:* Videolib
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>
>
>
> For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with
> in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and
> DVDs from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out
> of business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible
> version. That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a
> streaming version hosted by the distributor.
>
> I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the
> average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching
> needs are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are
> perfect for a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor
> has gone out of business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some
> professors figure out a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot
> for a couple decades.  So my hope was that independent educational
> distributors would be at the tail end of the DVD weaning process.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Videolib friends
>
>
>
> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently
> has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities
> streaming access to our collection over the internet.
>
>
>
> Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
> titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.
>
>
>
> It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
> producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell
> the last one of an older one.
>
>
>
> What do you think would happen if we did that?
>
>
>
> How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or
> collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available
> via streaming?
>
>
>
> I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
> (perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you
> think?  Thanks!
>
>
>
> Curiously yours,
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
> President
> Icarus Films
>
> 32 Court Street,

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Gisele Genevieve Tanasse]

Suddenly I'm much less charming-- If you were to only offer a 1 or 3 year
license, I would refuse to do business.

If this were a faculty request, I would tell them to try to get their
department to pay for it.

Gisele

Gisèle Tanasse

Head, Media Resources Center

150 Moffitt Library #6000
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-6000
PH: 510-642-8197
BCAL: nerdpo...@berkeley.edu
NOTE: PART TIME SCHEDULE Monday-Thurs 8AM-2PM

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Chris Lewis <cle...@american.edu> wrote:

> Speaking for myself, I live with what I can get. Not always happy about it
> but the vicissitudes of the marketplace kinda dictate it. If the price is
> too high or the terms too restrictive, we go without.
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Jonathan Miller <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My question though is: What if you can’t get the DVD?
>>
>>
>>
>> And if we only offer a 1 or 3 year license (Say for the sake of
>> argument), and professor wants to use a film – what do you do?
>>
>>
>>
>> JM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
>> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Hutchison, Jane
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:09 PM
>>
>> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>>
>>
>>
>> ​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of
>> file format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards, Jane Hutchison
>>
>> William Paterson University
>> --
>>
>> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
>> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann <
>> jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
>> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>>
>>
>>
>> For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video
>> with perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’
>> comments on how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.
>>
>>
>>
>> The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive.
>> It limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the
>> same material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jo Ann
>>
>>
>>
>> Jo Ann Reynolds
>>
>> Reserve Services Coordinator
>>
>> University of Connecticut
>>
>> Homer Babbidge Library
>>
>> 369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
>>
>> Storrs, CT  06269-1005
>>
>> 860-486-1406 voice
>>
>> 860-486-0584 fax
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [
>> mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu
>> <videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Chris Lewis
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
>> *To:* Videolib
>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>>
>>
>>
>> For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with
>> in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and
>> DVDs from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out
>> of business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible
>> version. That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a
>> streaming version hosted by the distributor.
>>
>> I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because
>> the average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching
>> needs are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are
>> perfect for a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor
>> has gone out of business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some
>> professors figure out a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot
>> for a couple decades.  So my hope was that independent educational
>> distributors would be at the tail end of the DVD weaning process.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller <jmil...@icarusfilms.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Videolib friends
>>
>>
>>
>> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently
>> has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities
>> streaming access to our collection over the internet

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Brian W Boling]

One factor that I haven't yet seen in this discussion is the continued
existence of the digital divide.

Working at an institution that has a high population of first generation
college students, I'm well aware that our patrons don't always have robust
enough home internet to watch streaming videos.  For this reason, and also
because we've run into occasional issues with classroom computer firewalls
not allowing the use of a stream, I typically try to buy the DVD of any
title I license for streaming.

A print-on-demand option, if available, would help to lessen these concerns.

Brian.

Brian Boling
Media Services Librarian
Temple University Libraries
brian.bol...@temple.edu
Schedule a meeting during my office hours

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Susan Albrecht]

If we could not get a DVD?  Honestly?  I’d either encourage the use of a 
different film (though I’d hate it!) or ask if they can chip in departmental 
funds to pay for a portion of the cost.  THEN I’d also encourage the (sure to 
be cranky and grumbling) faculty members to go advocate for a streaming video 
budget with our administration!

Susan Albrecht
Graduate Fellowship Advisor
Library Media Acquisitions Manager
Wabash College Lilly Library
765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)
765-361-6295 fax
albre...@wabash.edu<mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>
Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships
www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films<http://www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films>

***
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
***

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:15 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

My question though is: What if you can’t get the DVD?

And if we only offer a 1 or 3 year license (Say for the sake of argument), and 
professor wants to use a film – what do you do?

JM



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Hutchison, Jane
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:09 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?


​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of file 
format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.



Regards, Jane Hutchison

William Paterson University


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann 
<jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu<mailto:jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NO

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jessica Rosner]

Another issue is that this seems all directed (understandably) and non
fiction "educational media" For the most part feature films ( including
many documentaries) are only not available with lifetime streaming and
there is zero chance major studios would ever do it and in my mind little
chance many indie feature and foreign rights holder would. You have a wide
range of issues from say Citizen Kane to  Wild Strawberries were you can
get a physical DVD and streaming rights of usually a year ( maybe  3 on
Wild not sure), then you have the issue we have discussed where say Sony
Classics won't ever license for streaming and Netflix won't make physical
DVD copies. Basically I think everyone needs to be flexible but again I
strongly advice buying a physical copy whenever you can.




On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Brian W Boling 
wrote:

> One factor that I haven't yet seen in this discussion is the continued
> existence of the digital divide.
>
> Working at an institution that has a high population of first generation
> college students, I'm well aware that our patrons don't always have robust
> enough home internet to watch streaming videos.  For this reason, and also
> because we've run into occasional issues with classroom computer firewalls
> not allowing the use of a stream, I typically try to buy the DVD of any
> title I license for streaming.
>
> A print-on-demand option, if available, would help to lessen these
> concerns.
>
> Brian.
>
> Brian Boling
> Media Services Librarian
> Temple University Libraries
> brian.bol...@temple.edu
> Schedule a meeting during my office hours
> 
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Reynolds, Jo Ann]

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.



--
Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Reynolds, Jo Ann]

With our current policy we would pass on the purchase. We just wouldn’t buy it. 
Maybe, if it was really cheap we would but it’s also the labor cost of 
maintaining a teaching collection that one has to keep checking to see if the 
titles are still active is just too high, as well.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:15 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

My question though is: What if you can’t get the DVD?

And if we only offer a 1 or 3 year license (Say for the sake of argument), and 
professor wants to use a film – what do you do?

JM



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Hutchison, Jane
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:09 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?


​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of file 
format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.



Regards, Jane Hutchison

William Paterson University


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann 
<jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu<mailto:jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com&

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Threatt, Monique Louise]

Ditto to what Chris has stated.
Mo

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.



--
Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jonathan Miller]

Wow. Thanks to everyone for the great and interesting responses.

I will read all the emails over again and try and digest it tonight and if I 
come up with something half way interesting I will give you some feedback 
tomorrow.

Thanks again!

Jonathan


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Reynolds, Jo Ann
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 3:13 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.



--
Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Hutchison, Jane]

​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of file 
format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.


Regards, Jane Hutchison

William Paterson University


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann <jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.



--
Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jonathan Miller]

My question though is: What if you can’t get the DVD?

And if we only offer a 1 or 3 year license (Say for the sake of argument), and 
professor wants to use a film – what do you do?

JM



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Hutchison, Jane
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:09 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?


​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of file 
format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.



Regards, Jane Hutchison

William Paterson University


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann 
<jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu<mailto:jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.



--
Chris Lewis  American University Library  202.885.3257

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jonathan Miller]

No – you’re always charming!
 JM


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Gisele Genevieve 
Tanasse
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:38 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Suddenly I'm much less charming-- If you were to only offer a 1 or 3 year 
license, I would refuse to do business.

If this were a faculty request, I would tell them to try to get their 
department to pay for it.

Gisele

Gisèle Tanasse

Head, Media Resources Center

150 Moffitt Library #6000
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-6000
PH: 510-642-8197
BCAL: nerdpo...@berkeley.edu<mailto:nerdpo...@berkeley.edu>
NOTE: PART TIME SCHEDULE Monday-Thurs 8AM-2PM

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Chris Lewis 
<cle...@american.edu<mailto:cle...@american.edu>> wrote:
Speaking for myself, I live with what I can get. Not always happy about it but 
the vicissitudes of the marketplace kinda dictate it. If the price is too high 
or the terms too restrictive, we go without.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
My question though is: What if you can’t get the DVD?

And if we only offer a 1 or 3 year license (Say for the sake of argument), and 
professor wants to use a film – what do you do?

JM



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>]
 On Behalf Of Hutchison, Jane
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:09 PM

To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?


​I concur with Jo Ann and Chris.  Perpetuity for streaming or life of file 
format.  DVDs for those titles we can't get streaming.



Regards, Jane Hutchison

William Paterson University


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
<videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu>>
 on behalf of Reynolds, Jo Ann 
<jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu<mailto:jo_ann.reyno...@uconn.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:12 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For UConn also, the only equivalent of a DVD purchase is streaming video with 
perpetual rights, or at the very least, life of file format. Chris’ comments on 
how DVDs are used is classes is the same here.

The cost of licensing a stream for short terms is just too prohibitive. It 
limits the amount of new material we can purchase to have to pay for the same 
material over and over again. We just don’t have the budget for it.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann Reynolds
Reserve Services Coordinator
University of Connecticut
Homer Babbidge Library
369 Fairfield Road, Unit 1005RR
Storrs, CT  06269-1005
860-486-1406 voice
860-486-0584 fax



From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:08 PM
To: Videolib
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

For me, the only equivalent for a DVD purchase is a streaming video with 
in-perpetuity rights that we can host locally. We have many VHS tapes and DVDs 
from companies like Carousel, Films Inc., and LAVA that have gone out of 
business - but we can still use their titles because we own a tangible version. 
That wouldn't be the case if the only option was to license a streaming version 
hosted by the distributor.
I understand that this is the direction the studios are headed because the 
average person has adapted to using Netflix, iTunes. etc. but teaching needs 
are different and specialized documentaries (or features) that are perfect for 
a given class may be used regularly long after a distributor has gone out of 
business. It's just the way that classes get taught. Some professors figure out 
a lesson plan and more or less set it on autopilot for a couple decades.  So my 
hope was that independent educational distributors would be at the tail end of 
the DVD weaning process.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jonathan Miller 
<jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>> wrote:
Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Moshiri, Farhad]

And I forgot to add that I know individual titles are available in streaming 
format. But we never buy a title for a short period of time such as one year or 
three years. All individual titles in streaming are licensed for a short time 
only.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway - CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842









From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Moshiri, Farhad
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:42 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Jonathan,

We just ordered a DVD from your company last week. Recently, there has been 
discussion on this topic in this listserv. I can speak for my university only. 
We develop our collection in both formats. We do have some streaming and we 
also have a large collection of DVDs. Students want only streaming. Faculty 
don't care what format is the program as long as there is an easy to use 
playback machine. They are interested in having access to specific contents 
only. We do not have a large budget for AV so if your company decides not to 
produce DVDs, we cannot subscribe to Docuseek2 instead and we are forced to 
tell our faculty that we no longer can get your programs. The problem for 
university libraries with small budget for AV is that we need individual 
programs from a variety of publishers. But each of these publishers are in a 
different streaming platform such as Docuseek2, Kanopy, Alexander Street Press, 
Infobase, etc. We are never able to subscribe to all of these services. But we 
are able to purchase individual DVDs from each of them as needed.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway - CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842









From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:19 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I'm serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>




This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain 
privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email and any 
attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please immediately delete the email and any attachments from your system and 
notify the sender. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for 
your compliance.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Moshiri, Farhad]

Not if they are sold (licensed) for a short time. In addition, for AV 
librarians it is very difficult to manage access to streaming video title by 
title in a variety of platforms. We mostly prefer managing large databases.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway - CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842








From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:47 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Farhad

Thank you = I appreciate the problem with having to license a big collection - 
that makes perfect sense. What if the title was available to stream 
individually, by itself, for the same, or lower price, than the DVD?

Jonathan


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Moshiri, Farhad
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 10:42 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Jonathan,

We just ordered a DVD from your company last week. Recently, there has been 
discussion on this topic in this listserv. I can speak for my university only. 
We develop our collection in both formats. We do have some streaming and we 
also have a large collection of DVDs. Students want only streaming. Faculty 
don't care what format is the program as long as there is an easy to use 
playback machine. They are interested in having access to specific contents 
only. We do not have a large budget for AV so if your company decides not to 
produce DVDs, we cannot subscribe to Docuseek2 instead and we are forced to 
tell our faculty that we no longer can get your programs. The problem for 
university libraries with small budget for AV is that we need individual 
programs from a variety of publishers. But each of these publishers are in a 
different streaming platform such as Docuseek2, Kanopy, Alexander Street Press, 
Infobase, etc. We are never able to subscribe to all of these services. But we 
are able to purchase individual DVDs from each of them as needed.


Farhad Moshiri, MLS
Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
Audiovisual  Librarian
Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
Middle Eastern Studies
University of the Incarnate Word
J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
4301 Broadway - CPO 297
San Antonio, TX 78209
(210) 829-3842









From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:19 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I'm serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>




This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain 
privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email and any 
attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please immediately delete the email and any attachments from your system and 
notify the sender. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for 
your compliance.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage t

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Jeanne Little]

Jonathan,

I echo what Farhad has said in regards to our buying power. We purchase
streaming rights for our Distance Education program on a limited basis, and
rarely purchase streaming for other individual titles. We do not currently
have a streaming platform subscription but will be venturing into that area
on a small scale in the near future. That being said, we understand that
streaming is wonderful for giving students 24/7 access and for faculty to
link to in our eLearning system for their classes, but our budget is so
tight, that we could not subscribe to several streaming platforms in the
hopes that one of them would have what our faculty and students need.

We do still purchase in DVD format and I do not anticipate we will stop
doing so in the future.

Jeanne Little

-- 
Rod Library - Room 250
Resource Management/Collections Unit
Content Discovery Division
University of Northern Iowa
Cedar Falls, IA  50614-3675
319-273-7255

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Moshiri, Farhad <mosh...@uiwtx.edu> wrote:

> Dear Jonathan,
>
>
>
> We just ordered a DVD from your company last week. Recently, there has
> been discussion on this topic in this listserv. I can speak for my
> university only. We develop our collection in both formats. We do have some
> streaming and we also have a large collection of DVDs. Students want only
> streaming. Faculty don’t care what format is the program as long as there
> is an easy to use playback machine. They are interested in having access to
> specific contents only. We do not have a large budget for AV so if your
> company decides not to produce DVDs, we cannot subscribe to Docuseek2
> instead and we are forced to tell our faculty that we no longer can get
> your programs. The problem for university libraries with small budget for
> AV is that we need individual programs from a variety of publishers. But
> each of these publishers are in a different streaming platform such as
> Docuseek2, Kanopy, Alexander Street Press, Infobase, etc. We are never able
> to subscribe to all of these services. But we are able to purchase
> individual DVDs from each of them as needed.
>
>
>
>
>
> Farhad Moshiri, MLS
>
> Post-Masters Advanced Study Certificate
>
> Audiovisual  Librarian
>
> Subject areas: Music, Dance, Copyright issues,
>
> Middle Eastern Studies
>
> University of the Incarnate Word
>
> J.E. & L.E. Mabee Library
>
> 4301 Broadway – CPO 297
>
> San Antonio, TX 78209
>
> (210) 829-3842
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Miller
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 03, 2015 9:19 AM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* [Videolib] No more DVDs?
>
>
>
> Dear Videolib friends
>
>
>
> As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently
> has over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities
> streaming access to our collection over the internet.
>
>
>
> Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same
> titles. And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.
>
>
>
> It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not
> producing them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell
> the last one of an older one.
>
>
>
> What do you think would happen if we did that?
>
>
>
> How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or
> collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available
> via streaming?
>
>
>
> I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a
> (perhaps) drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you
> think?  Thanks!
>
>
>
> Curiously yours,
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jonathan Miller
>
> President
> Icarus Films
>
> 32 Court Street, 21st Floor
>
> Brooklyn, NY 11201
>
>
>
> www.IcarusFilms.com <http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
>
> http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com <http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>
>
>
>
> Tel 1.718.488.8900
>
> Fax 1.718.488.8642
>
> jmil...@icarusfilms.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or
> contain privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the
> individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in
> error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of
>

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Sarah E. McCleskey]

Hi Jonathan,

We have been fortunate to be able to subscribe to Docuseek2 and a number of 
other streaming platforms. I am definitely moving in the direction you are 
talking about. If I can possibly get a streaming license (subscription, 
one-off, 3 years, 5 years, perpetual ...) I will do it instead of acquiring a 
DVD.

Most DVD acquisitions I make these days are for feature film titles, things 
that are readily available from the mainstream vendors. Many are for faculty in 
film studies, comp lit, etc. Not all, but many.

I do sometimes get a DVD along with the streaming license, usually so that we 
can rip and upload to a hosting server.

I would not have any problem buying a film that was only available for 
streaming as long as the license terms were acceptable to the university.

Sarah


Sarah E. McCleskey, M.A., M.S.L.S.
Head of Access Services
112 Axinn Library
123 Hofstra University
Hempstead, NY 11549
Phone 516-463-5076
Fax 516-463-4309
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu<mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>





From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 10:19 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

Dear Videolib friends

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet.

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them.

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one.

What do you think would happen if we did that?

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming?

I'm serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one.  What do you think?  
Thanks!

Curiously yours,

Jonathan Miller



Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201

www.IcarusFilms.com<http://www.icarusfilms.com/>
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com<http://homevideo.icarusfilms.com/>

Tel 1.718.488.8900
Fax 1.718.488.8642
jmil...@icarusfilms.com<mailto:jmil...@icarusfilms.com>

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] No more DVDs?

[Randal Baier]

" ... so soon as it steps forth as a commodity, it is changed into something 
transcendent ..." 



A serious question and certainly something to think about. 


We are still purchasing DVDs because we don't yet have the streaming use to 
warrant a rental-type arrangement, which is essentially what the 
subscription/licensing has become. And another aspect is the added value that 
many of the DVDs have with extra features, data, still images, etc. 

I wonder if a DVD on demand (um, on request) model would work? You could go 
completely to streamed content but still make the DVDs available to those who 
need to continue using them. Or make good web sites that provide the ancillary 
material. 


I will say that spending $350 for a DVD that might have a very short shelf life 
would be the same as spending that $350 for a 3-yr. streaming license. If it's 
not played at all after three years what's the difference? With a PDA or EBA 
model you might be able to have added availability and viewing during that 
period, so turnover would be something that might be an advantage of "all 
streaming, all the time." 


Faculty are now preferring streamed content, but we still make choices to get 
DVDs based on their cost over time. (oops, the DVD cost not the faculty cost!) 
I guess another matter is the have and have not issue with $$$ resources as 
well. For some it's a matter of affordability. 




Yet don't forget one thing: the precious aura of a held object. We NEED our 
Nosferatu s!!! 


But, of course, you don't have to take my word for it -- 
http://web.stanford.edu/~davies/Symbsys100-Spring0708/Marx-Commodity-Fetishism.pdf
 






Continually changing the forms of materials furnished by Nature, 


I remain ... 


== 
Randal Baier 
Eastern Michigan University 
Ypsilanti, Michigan 48197 
(734) 487-2520 
rba...@emich.edu 
tweets @rbaier – skypes @ randalbaier 
“... do not all strange sounds thrill us as human 
till we have learned to refer them to their proper 
source?” -Thoreau, mss., Journal 9: 1854-1855 


- Original Message -

From: "Jonathan Miller" <jmil...@icarusfilms.com> 
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 10:19:08 AM 
Subject: [Videolib] No more DVDs? 



Dear Videolib friends 

As many of you know Icarus Films has been helping to build, and currently has 
over 300 titles on, Docuseek2, to provide colleges and universities streaming 
access to our collection over the internet. 

Yes, we continue to invest in producing and releasing DVDs of the same titles. 
And, as streaming usage increases, selling fewer and fewer of them. 

It is making me wonder if we should stop selling DVDs altogether, not producing 
them at all for new films, and not ordering any more once we sell the last one 
of an older one. 

What do you think would happen if we did that? 

How many of you would definitely NOT buy or use a film that a professor or 
collection development librarian wanted to have, if it was ONLY available via 
streaming? 

I’m serious in asking this question, I think it may be time to take a (perhaps) 
drastic step, and not another small incremental one. What do you think? Thanks! 

Curiously yours, 

Jonathan Miller 



Jonathan Miller 
President 
Icarus Films 
32 Court Street, 21 st Floor 
Brooklyn, NY 11201 

www.IcarusFilms.com 
http://HomeVideo.IcarusFilms.com 

Tel 1.718.488.8900 
Fax 1.718.488.8642 
jmil...@icarusfilms.com 

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors. 

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.