[Vo]:Over unity at MIT
Did you ever think you would hear MIT bragging about overunity? Thermoelectrically Pumped Light-Emitting Diodes Operating above Unity Efficiency http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.097403 Parthiban Santhanam, Dodd Joseph Gray, Jr., and Rajeev J. Ram Phys. Rev. Lett. 108, 097403 (2012) http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.097403 Published February 27, 2012 Physicists have known for decades that, in principle, a semiconductor device can emit more light power than it consumes electrically. Experiments published in Physical Review Letters finally demonstrate this in practice, though at a small scale. It is clear that the Joule thief and Joule ringer experiments that pepper the internet can produce more light from LEDs than should be available from the electrical input. The best I have seen is 50 uwatts going in to light an LED (that's micro- not milli-). This is 1000 times lower than the DC rating. If you have been around Vortex for a while you may remember 5-6 years ago there was a vocal proponent of using Silicon chip-making equipment (microlithography) to fabricate a dedicated ambient-to-electric converter - the so-called giga-diode TEG array. A interesting fellow named Charles M. Brown, from Hawaii, was the major proponent of this. He seems to have faded from view around 2007 but he claimed to have a fab lined up to produce such an array. His patent goes pack 37 years. In his last postings, he said this was to be GaAs or GaSb and have several billion diodes. He was going to enter this device in the Virgin alternative energy competition and according to this message - he did arrange to have a few produced. This is an interesting thread but the output is low. Apparently this is Paul Lowrance's site (former vortician) http://www.globalfreeenergy.info/2009/06/18/new-diode-setup-plans/ There is old info up on Sterling Allan's site (with Brown's patent reference), but it seems to have not been updated in a while: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Charles_M._Brown%27s_Thermal_Electric _Chip Jones BTW- Lowrance adds, Low leakage *undisturbed* diodes typically produce 0.2 to 0.5 volts DC. Piezos typically produce 1 to 7 volts DC. The key is in not disturbing the diode. The effect is extremely sensitive. Once disturbed, the passive component can take weeks to months to recover. [why should undisturbed matter? Does making a connection to ZPE require some kind of local stability?] The effect has baffled some of the best academic scientists. The unknown effect appears to be based on E-fields, and nothing to do with diode rectification. Within the diode is an intense E-field at the junction. Passive piezo elements have an intense internal E-field. Tests replicated by numerous academic scientists clearly show that highly shielded (both electrical and thermal) and undisturbed piezos produce DC voltage, and current when loaded. This effect is seen in various types of diodes and piezo elements. Low leakage components are recommended for best results. Experiments were conducted in rural areas, under-ground, up to three layers of metal shielding, in oil baths, up to 2 feet of thermal insulation. Dozens of different types of meters were used, including 100% passive tests void of all power active components. attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. 2012/2/28 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net Did you ever think you would hear MIT bragging about overunity? Thermoelectrically Pumped Light-Emitting Diodes Operating above Unity Efficiency http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.097403 Parthiban Santhanam, Dodd Joseph Gray, Jr., and Rajeev J. Ram Phys. Rev. Lett. 108, 097403 (2012) http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.097403 Published February 27, 2012 Physicists have known for decades that, in principle, a semiconductor device can emit more light power than it consumes electrically. Experiments published in Physical Review Letters finally demonstrate this in practice, though at a small scale. It is clear that the Joule thief and Joule ringer experiments that pepper the internet can produce more light from LEDs than should be available from the electrical input. The best I have seen is 50 uwatts going in to light an LED (that's micro- not milli-). This is 1000 times lower than the DC rating. If you have been around Vortex for a while you may remember 5-6 years ago there was a vocal proponent of using Silicon chip-making equipment (microlithography) to fabricate a dedicated ambient-to-electric converter - the so-called giga-diode TEG array. A interesting fellow named Charles M. Brown, from Hawaii, was the major proponent of this. He seems to have faded from view around 2007 but he claimed to have a fab lined up to produce such an array. His patent goes pack 37 years. In his last postings, he said this was to be GaAs or GaSb and have several billion diodes. He was going to enter this device in the Virgin alternative energy competition and according to this message - he did arrange to have a few produced. This is an interesting thread but the output is low. Apparently this is Paul Lowrance's site (former vortician) http://www.globalfreeenergy.info/2009/06/18/new-diode-setup-plans/ There is old info up on Sterling Allan's site (with Brown's patent reference), but it seems to have not been updated in a while: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Charles_M._Brown%27s_Thermal_Electric _Chip Jones BTW- Lowrance adds, Low leakage *undisturbed* diodes typically produce 0.2 to 0.5 volts DC. Piezos typically produce 1 to 7 volts DC. The key is in not disturbing the diode. The effect is extremely sensitive. Once disturbed, the passive component can take weeks to months to recover. [why should undisturbed matter? Does making a connection to ZPE require some kind of local stability?] The effect has baffled some of the best academic scientists. The unknown effect appears to be based on E-fields, and nothing to do with diode rectification. Within the diode is an intense E-field at the junction. Passive piezo elements have an intense internal E-field. Tests replicated by numerous academic scientists clearly show that highly shielded (both electrical and thermal) and undisturbed piezos produce DC voltage, and current when loaded. This effect is seen in various types of diodes and piezo elements. Low leakage components are recommended for best results. Experiments were conducted in rural areas, under-ground, up to three layers of metal shielding, in oil baths, up to 2 feet of thermal insulation. Dozens of different types of meters were used, including 100% passive tests void of all power active components. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
From: Daniel Rocha Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes of course - these guys have to protect tenured positions at MIT, so they would never mention ZPE nor any of the other possibilities that we like to toss around here ... ... as Mel Brooks would say we must protect our phony baloney jobs attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device’s wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
I don't think it is a matter of protecting position because of crazy claims. What they did was not unusual in the sense that there is no surplus of energy, but more efficiency then expected. 2012/2/28 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net From: Daniel Rocha Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes of course - these guys have to protect tenured positions at MIT, so they would never mention ZPE nor any of the other possibilities that we like to toss around here ... ... as Mel Brooks would say we must protect our phony baloney jobs -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device’s wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
According to the second law you can only get a system to do work if parts of the system are at different temperatures. In this situation the system is a diode and it does work by converting heat into light. It is hard to tell from the description, but I am guessing the entire diode is at an elevated temperature. harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device’s wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
The key wording is here: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work *to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field.* It is converting *heat* energy to light. not electricity-to-light!!! Thus, as they *lower* the forward bias V, *electrical* efficiency INCREASES because it is not using electrical current for operation; as Jones said, it's the E-field which ALLOWS the HEAT-to-LIGHT conversion. If the material is not very conductive, one can have a large E-field with miniscule current flow. thus, very little ELECTRICAL power use. -Mark From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:21 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device's wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
The diode is working as a cooler. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com According to the second law you can only get a system to do work if parts of the system are at different temperatures. In this situation the system is a diode and it does work by converting heat into light. It is hard to tell from the description, but I am guessing the entire diode is at an elevated temperature. harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device’s wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
Some months ago I speculated that LENR might one day be used as a heat source to generate light directly using a thermophotovoltaic effect. This work suggests it might be feasible. I even mentioned it to Rossi, on his blog but he just saw it as a means to generate electricty from the light produced. Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: The key wording is here: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work *to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field.*” It is converting *heat* energy to light… not electricity-to-light!!! Thus, as they *lower* the forward bias V, *electrical* efficiency INCREASES because it is not using electrical current for operation; as Jones said, it’s the E-field which ALLOWS the HEAT-to-LIGHT conversion. If the material is not very conductive, one can have a large E-field with miniscule current flow… thus, very little ELECTRICAL power use. -Mark From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:21 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device’s wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
What about heat -electricity - light? 2012/2/28 Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net The key wording is here: ** ** A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work **to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field.**” ** ** It is converting **heat** energy to light… not electricity-to-light!!! ** ** Thus, as they **lower** the forward bias V, **electrical** efficiency INCREASES because it is not using electrical current for operation; as Jones said, it’s the E-field which ALLOWS the HEAT-to-LIGHT conversion. If the material is not very conductive, one can have a large E-field with miniscule current flow… thus, very little ELECTRICAL power use. ** ** -Mark ** ** *From:* Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:21 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT ** ** Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device’s wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry ** ** -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com ** ** -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
On the CoE balance sheet - we have light emission, which can be converted into watts equivalent. If the electrical input were to be 60% of that value, and the rest is assumed (correctly) to come from ambient heat, then there is no CoE violation. This would be ultra high efficiency in the same way that a heat pump is not OU, but is highly efficient since it removes heat from the environment. (there are two distinct meanings for COP) But until precise calorimetry proves that there is not a third input (in addition to electrical and ambient heat) then the door is slightly ajar. No one is suggesting (yet) that there is an anomaly or a violation. But if you do not look for it carefully, instead of making assumptions - then it cannot be found. From: Daniel Rocha Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand.
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
If it is a cooler, it appears to violate the first law. If it is an energy converter, it appears to violate the second law. I guess the question is: what is it? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The diode is working as a cooler. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com According to the second law you can only get a system to do work if parts of the system are at different temperatures. In this situation the system is a diode and it does work by converting heat into light. It is hard to tell from the description, but I am guessing the entire diode is at an elevated temperature. harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device’s wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
The paper says that it is working at a temperature of 135 C, which is relatively elevated. I agree that this does violate the second law, in that it is doing work but there is not a heat source and sink. However, as my son, who knows more about physics than I do says, the second law is not so much a law, merely a guideline. There are a number of situations where it does not hold, so we can add this to the list. One Achilles heal of the second law would appear to be pumped Bose condensates such as lasers, so it is no great surprise to find an example here. However, we only get over unity at less than 10E-10 watts, so its practical application at this point is somewhat limited.But maybe with a little more research Nigel On 28/02/2012 17:38, Harry Veeder wrote: According to the second law you can only get a system to do work if parts of the system are at different temperatures. In this situation the system is a diode and it does work by converting heat into light. It is hard to tell from the description, but I am guessing the entire diode is at an elevated temperature. harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Rochadanieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veederhveeder...@gmail.com however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
That's right. The 2nd law is not valid for very simple systems or open systems, which is the case above. 2012/2/28 Nigel Dyer l...@thedyers.org.uk The paper says that it is working at a temperature of 135 C, which is relatively elevated. I agree that this does violate the second law, in that it is doing work but there is not a heat source and sink. However, as my son, who knows more about physics than I do says, the second law is not so much a law, merely a guideline. There are a number of situations where it does not hold, so we can add this to the list. One Achilles heal of the second law would appear to be pumped Bose condensates such as lasers, so it is no great surprise to find an example here. However, we only get over unity at less than 10E-10 watts, so its practical application at this point is somewhat limited.But maybe with a little more research Nigel On 28/02/2012 17:38, Harry Veeder wrote: According to the second law you can only get a system to do work if parts of the system are at different temperatures. In this situation the system is a diode and it does work by converting heat into light. It is hard to tell from the description, but I am guessing the entire diode is at an elevated temperature. harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Rochadanieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veederhveeder...@gmail.com however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
I think that systems have always radiated heat energy by the blackbody method. That is one way for a diode to act as a cooler, but this only works if the radiated energy is directed toward a cooler region of space. In one way of looking at it: All of the electrical energy dissipated by an insulated, lone diode in space would be emitted in one form of radiation or the other. Light or infrared, etc. would be emitted in an amount equal to the power input. Perhaps they have found a way to enhance the light part of the spectrum at the expense of the heat portion. Dave -Original Message- From: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT The diode is working as a cooler. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com According to the second law you can only get a system to do work if parts of the system are at different temperatures. In this situation the system is a diode and it does work by converting heat into light. It is hard to tell from the description, but I am guessing the entire diode is at an elevated temperature. harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you think it would violate the 2nd law? I don't understand. 2012/2/28 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Pay attention at this: Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. It is above the conventional, not that it produces energy out of nothing. This is just a way of saying that it exceeded expectation of light emission for a LED. Yes. It uses electricity to change heat into light. The abstract: A heated semiconductor light-emitting diode at low forward bias voltage VkBT/q is shown to use electrical work to pump heat from the lattice to the photon field. Here the rates of both radiative and nonradiative recombination have contributions at linear order in V. As a result the device’s wall-plug (i.e., power conversion) efficiency is inversely proportional to its output power and diverges as V approaches zero. Experiments directly confirm for the first time that this behavior continues beyond the conventional limit of unity electrical-to-optical power conversion efficiency. however, wouldn't this require a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Harry -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: [why should undisturbed matter? Does making a connection to ZPE require some kind of local stability?] Jones, Maybe this is somehow related to the Aspden Effect? http://www.haroldaspden.com/ T
RE: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
Terry - Not sure I follow. Are you saying that virtual inertia comes from being undisturbed for a time? Please elaborate. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [why should undisturbed matter? Does making a connection to ZPE require some kind of local stability?] Jones, Maybe this is somehow related to the Aspden Effect? http://www.haroldaspden.com/ T
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Terry - Not sure I follow. Are you saying that virtual inertia comes from being undisturbed for a time? Please elaborate. I was thinking of an inverse of the Aspden Effect, ie if the aether is left undisturbed for some amount of time a sort of energy precipitant might occur. After all, if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the precipitant. groan Solly. T
Re: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
My first statement is only correct if the putative cooler is an active cooling system. By that I mean it is behaving like the diode equivalent of a heat pump. A heat pump requires an external input of energy that is equal to or greater than the heat transferred out of the system. In this system the input energy is electrical and is less than the heat energy transferred out of the system so it qualifies as OU. OTOH, if it is a passive cooling system, which simply cools by emitting radiation, it wouldn't qualify as OU. However, as David Roberson pointed out this cooling process differs from how an ideal black body is suppose to cool. Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: If it is a cooler, it appears to violate the first law. If it is an energy converter, it appears to violate the second law. I guess the question is: what is it? Harry
RE: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT
PDF was too large, so go get U.S. Patent No. 0119825, McFarland. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 4:29 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Over unity at MIT Terry - Not sure I follow. Are you saying that virtual inertia comes from being undisturbed for a time? Please elaborate. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [why should undisturbed matter? Does making a connection to ZPE require some kind of local stability?] Jones, Maybe this is somehow related to the Aspden Effect? http://www.haroldaspden.com/ T
