Re: RCD and UPS? (was: Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?)

[Pat Scott]

Hi, Martin,

A year ago we went looking for a UPS system to use at home for my G4  
tower + 2 monitors.  The ones we looked at that were advertised as  
being suitable for computers, in places like Tandy and Dick Smith,  
were totally inadequate.  The sales people didn't have a clue about  
them or about what is needed to protect computers.


I ended up buying an Ellipse 1200 model UPS (MGE UPS Systems) from  
Austin Computers on the Albany Highway in Cannington. It cost $280.  
When tested, it kept the computer going for more than an hour.  It  
was supposed to give certain warning beeps when it was nearing the  
end of its capacity, but it didn't - so the computer crashed.  That  
was the last crash, however.  It has saved us from a number of  
crashes since then; I make sure I shut down fairly promptly when the  
power goes off.


http://www.mgeups.com

Cheers,
Pat

On 03/04/2007, at 11:48 AM, Martin Hill wrote:



I've already had to replace the RAM in one of our Macs that was  
damaged after so many outages.  I'm thinking of getting a UPS.  Our  
expensive surge protecting powerboard isn't really a fantastic  
solution.  Anyone have recommendations on UPS units?


-Mart

Martin Hill
email: mart "at" ozmac.com
homepages: http://mart.ozmac.com
Mb: 0417-967-969  hm: (08)9314-5242


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Re: RCD and UPS? (was: Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?)

[J Philippe Chaperon]

Hi Martin,

I've been using UPS for many years at home and I will recommend BEKLKIN
without any hesitation. My computers never know if there is a spike or a
complete power failure, and I feel very safe using this equipment. My
NetComm ADSL modem/router is also driven and protected by the BELKIN device.

By the way, BELKIN has a great support culture and that's why I can
recommend the brand.

Regards,

Philippe C. 


-- 
Believe it is possible to solve your problem. Tremendous things
happen to the believer. So believe the answer will come. It will.

Norman Vincent Peale
(1898-1993, American Christian Reformed Pastor, Speaker, Author)



on 3/4/07 11:48 AM, Martin Hill at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On 02/04/2007, at 4:44 PM, Robert Howells wrote:
>> Everybody   How long since you used the Test button on your
>> Safety switch ( RCD .. residual current device  ) ?
> 
> We unintentionally test our RCD every other week when something in
> our house knocks the stupid switch out.  :-(
> 
> After getting the RCD installed in our 25 year old house we ended up
> having to replace out Fridge, and our separate upright Freezer and
> change the time of the morning that our pool pump and electric
> booster on the solar come on to stop the blasted thing tripping when
> the dew point gets to a certain time or something.  Our sparkie also
> ripped out all the wiring to the lights on our pergola and BBQ area
> (not in conduit) in his efforts to track down the problem.  We still
> have something setting it off every few weeks or so.
> 
> Yes, I know, we'll be thankful for it when it saves someone's life,
> but it is not without hassle in our case.  :-(
> 
> I've already had to replace the RAM in one of our Macs that was
> damaged after so many outages.  I'm thinking of getting a UPS.  Our
> expensive surge protecting powerboard isn't really a fantastic
> solution.  Anyone have recommendations on UPS units?
> 



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Re: RCD and UPS? (was: Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?)

[Reg Whitely]

The cat perhaps? Check its paws or... (seen the Mythbusters episode  
about peeing on the railway tracks?)


Reg

On 3 Apr 2007, at 11:48am, Martin Hill wrote:


On 02/04/2007, at 4:44 PM, Robert Howells wrote:
Everybody   How long since you used the Test button on your  
Safety switch ( RCD .. residual current device  ) ?


We unintentionally test our RCD every other week when something in  
our house knocks the stupid switch out.  :-(


After getting the RCD installed in our 25 year old house we ended  
up having to replace out Fridge, and our separate upright Freezer  
and change the time of the morning that our pool pump and electric  
booster on the solar come on to stop the blasted thing tripping  
when the dew point gets to a certain time or something.  Our  
sparkie also ripped out all the wiring to the lights on our pergola  
and BBQ area (not in conduit) in his efforts to track down the  
problem.  We still have something setting it off every few weeks or  
so.


Yes, I know, we'll be thankful for it when it saves someone's life,  
but it is not without hassle in our case.  :-(


I've already had to replace the RAM in one of our Macs that was  
damaged after so many outages.  I'm thinking of getting a UPS.  Our  
expensive surge protecting powerboard isn't really a fantastic  
solution.  Anyone have recommendations on UPS units?


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RCD and UPS? (was: Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?)

[Martin Hill]

On 02/04/2007, at 4:44 PM, Robert Howells wrote:
Everybody   How long since you used the Test button on your  
Safety switch ( RCD .. residual current device  ) ?


We unintentionally test our RCD every other week when something in  
our house knocks the stupid switch out.  :-(


After getting the RCD installed in our 25 year old house we ended up  
having to replace out Fridge, and our separate upright Freezer and  
change the time of the morning that our pool pump and electric  
booster on the solar come on to stop the blasted thing tripping when  
the dew point gets to a certain time or something.  Our sparkie also  
ripped out all the wiring to the lights on our pergola and BBQ area  
(not in conduit) in his efforts to track down the problem.  We still  
have something setting it off every few weeks or so.


Yes, I know, we'll be thankful for it when it saves someone's life,  
but it is not without hassle in our case.  :-(


I've already had to replace the RAM in one of our Macs that was  
damaged after so many outages.  I'm thinking of getting a UPS.  Our  
expensive surge protecting powerboard isn't really a fantastic  
solution.  Anyone have recommendations on UPS units?


-Mart

Martin Hill
email: mart "at" ozmac.com
homepages: http://mart.ozmac.com
Mb: 0417-967-969  hm: (08)9314-5242



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[James / Hans Kunz]

if this tingeling feel is a problem then charge your laptop @ night &  
use it of battery
the safety switch normally kicks out @ 30 ma which is 10 times higher  
than what your power pack leaks
what's more the problem if you connect the mains powered laptop to  
earthed audio equipment you could end up with strong funny noise in  
the speakers & if you unplug the power the noise dissapears...


you don't need to buy a new one, you just end up with the same  
problem again

cheers  James

SAD Technic
Video Productions, Electronic repairs
U3 / 6 Chalkley Pl
Bayswater WA 6053
+618 9370 5307,+618 6262 5707, 0414 421 132
http://www.iinet.net.au/~saddas
skype: barleeway

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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Robert Howells]

Someone's probably going to tell me that putting my finger on the  
connector
was a stupid thing to do to start with :( Isn't this why Clipsal  
Safety

Switches exist?!! :)


Assuming you have one where you are ,  AND it is  in working order !

Yes , they are intended to save you !

But only new houses have them unless the owners of older houses have  
paid

to have one installed .



Everybody   How long since you used the Test button on your  
Safety switch ( RCD .. residual current device  ) ?


Bob





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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Steven]

Hopefully the fact that I got round to checking the original box in which my
Powerbook came, and found the 3-pin extension, will help me live longer.
(Thanks all for the tips on that note.)

I haven't felt any tingles, but then I've only had it plugged in since this
afternoon. If it's a backward step, and things get worse, one clue may be
the absence of further posts. Ever.

One thing I noticed that was different. When I had the 2-pin plug, if I took
the end that plugs into the Powerbook, and put, say, my finger across both
the brass-looking pointy bit, and the thin silver sleeve, then the lightable
area would turn green (no doubt there's proper terminology for all of this
stuff, but I'm clueless as to what it might be). Presumably something about
completing a circuit. But now, with the 3-pin plug hooked up, that little
phenomenon appears to have stopped.

Someone's probably going to tell me that putting my finger on the connector
was a stupid thing to do to start with :( Isn't this why Clipsal Safety
Switches exist?!! :)

Steven


On 2/4/07 6:15 PM, "Paul Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Well, I guess many of us have learned Ohms law Laurie, some of us better
> than others.  Read my message again carefully and try to figure out what I
> was saying.  High voltage like 250v AC and a good earth can provide
> conditions for a fatal shock.  There are plenty of dead people who have
> disregarded tingles after they unwittingly set up the right conditions for a
> fatal shock.  250V AC is regarded as high voltage.  It needs to be checked.
> 
> Paul.
> 
> From: Laurie McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:09:26 +0800
> To: Paul Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?
> 
> 
> Paul
> 
> Way back in my twenties I studied electronics at night school. One
> thing we learned is that the voltage won't hurt you. its the current
> - amps.
> 
> To demonstrate this our tutor had us each place our index finger on
> the 25kv terminal on the deflection yoke of a TV, and then draw a
> spark out about 1 inch long before stopping. Not one of the class fried!
> 
> Regards, Laurie



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Paul Weaver]

Well, I guess many of us have learned Ohms law Laurie, some of us better
than others.  Read my message again carefully and try to figure out what I
was saying.  High voltage like 250v AC and a good earth can provide
conditions for a fatal shock.  There are plenty of dead people who have
disregarded tingles after they unwittingly set up the right conditions for a
fatal shock.  250V AC is regarded as high voltage.  It needs to be checked.

Paul.

From: Laurie McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:09:26 +0800
To: Paul Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?


Paul

Way back in my twenties I studied electronics at night school. One
thing we learned is that the voltage won't hurt you. its the current
- amps.

To demonstrate this our tutor had us each place our index finger on
the 25kv terminal on the deflection yoke of a TV, and then draw a
spark out about 1 inch long before stopping. Not one of the class fried!

Regards, Laurie



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Paul Weaver]

If you are receiving electrical tingles or observing sparks from any device
with a mains connection you should cease using it and have it expertly
tested.   If the outer metal case is "live" then death could result when the
user provides a good connection to ground, such as standing barefoot on a
wet concrete floor, or less.  Tingles are bad, bad, bad. Don't disregard
them.

Someone technically orientated could check with a multimeter to determine
what sort of voltage is present between the case and earth.  However in my
view the problem needs to be treated seriously and remedied properly.

Paul.


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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[James Devenish]

Hi all,

Yeah, it's an interesting effect. As others have mentioned, you may
notice differences depends on whether you're using battery, two-prong
or three-prong plugs. James has already mentioned one of the causes
explicitly.

I've not personally had the sensation with PowerBooks recently, but
what basically happens it that different people are naturally at
different 'ground' levels (just like static electricity shocks) and
it's quite normal. Neither the latent issue nor the tingling are
cancer threats in that case. (Or maybe we need to outlaw carpets,
clothing, and all bodily motion...) It can depend on various factors,
just like static electricity does.

If you've ever been in contact with alternate mains phases, you'll
appreciate the fact that your hair doesn't actually stand on end with
this one! Seriously, though, this is usually the nature resistance and
capacitance, and if you're experiencing what everyone else
experiences, it's probably as unescapable as gravity. I guess it's
noticeable with PowerBooks because they have conductive metalic cases.
Similar effects would exist with all cases (you're always multiply
linked to the grounds in your environment, even through an air gap)
but plastic is below the threshold of our 'conscious sensation'.

Probably nothing better than a party trick, I'm afraid,
James

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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[James / Hans Kunz]

lets go technical
all switchmode power supplies have a capacitor effect within the  
internal transformer plus as spike protection there are 1 or 2 820pf  
capacitors between primary (240v) & secondary (plug to powerbook) so  
a small current of up to 3ma can "powerup" the frame of you laptop
plug in the power pack into mains (but not into laptop) & with a  
digital multimeter you can see around 105v ac static coming from the  
power pack if you measure to the mains earth (powerpack plug outer  
ring - mains earth pin)


let's get curly hair..James


On 30/03/2007, at 11:56, Steven wrote:

I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my  
current
Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my  
Powerbook on my
lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some  
glitter on
her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I  
touched

her skin it felt really weird.

Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped  
when I
wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when  
I touched
my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is  
giving the

weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.

I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a small
electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower  
arm when

it rests on the Powerbook.

I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a  
health

risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.

Cheers, Steven



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SAD Technic
Video Productions, Electronic repairs
U3 / 6 Chalkley Pl
Bayswater WA 6053
+618 9370 5307,+618 6262 5707, 0414 421 132
http://www.iinet.net.au/~saddas
skype: barleeway

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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[David Moyle]

To sort out this mess..

A three prong plug has an extra connection for an earth. It also means that
heavy waited objects plugged in can't fall out as fast! The chargers for the
PPC laptops and Intel laptops originally came with two adaptors to plug into
the physical charger. A long extenstion cord that has always been equipped
with a three pronged end and also a shorter model that allows the charger to
be plugged in directly that is only two pronged which is quite dangerous!

That is why major electrical devices such as VCR, TV, Microwave always have
three pronged plugs to earth the device where a simply kettle will not. Also
on a laptop it is not too much of an issue since the current is brought down
to only 12v so it shouldn't cause too much harm to yourself... (Any
disclaimer you've read also applies to what I've just typed..)

Thanks, David Moyle
--
Bertram, Western Australia
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an
empty desk mean?"

Confidentiality Notice:
The contents of this email are confid.. Were you meant to receive this? If
not, delete it. Please?


-Original Message-
From: WAMUG Mailing List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eugene
Sent: Friday, 30 March 2007 2:13 PM
To: WAMUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

Hi Bob,

the MB ships with both of them. If you look at the Apple site it is  
described this way..

"An AC cord is provided with the adapter for maximum cord length,  
while the AC wall adapter (also provided) gives users an even easier  
and more compact way to travel. "

My 2 pin adaptor and 3 pin extension cord both plug into my power  
adaptor.

   Regards,
   Eugene


> Eugene , just what  3 prong extension cord is this ?
> Does your 2 pin Power block plug into the end of it ?
>
>
> Bob


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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Eugene]

Hi Bob,

the MB ships with both of them. If you look at the Apple site it is  
described this way..


"An AC cord is provided with the adapter for maximum cord length,  
while the AC wall adapter (also provided) gives users an even easier  
and more compact way to travel. "


My 2 pin adaptor and 3 pin extension cord both plug into my power  
adaptor.


  Regards,
  Eugene



Eugene , just what  3 prong extension cord is this ?
Does your 2 pin Power block plug into the end of it ?


Bob



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Eugene]

Hi Steven,

when I got my MB Pro I got an extension cord with 3 prongs that went  
into the Power Charger and a small 2 pronged plug that connects  
directly to the power charger. I feel that this is what he was  
referring to. Interesting at work (now) I'm on the extension cord and  
don't notice the buzz but at home I'm always on the plug as I have a  
socket near my laptop and it is here that I have noticed the buzz,  
perhaps there is something to his comment.


  Regards,
  Eugene


On 30/03/2007, at 1:33 PM, Steven wrote:

Thanks Eugene. Interesting. An intermittent electric shock is one  
thing, but
I wonder about the effects of a long term stream of electric  
current running
through my body? I have little understanding of electricity I'm  
afraid :-( I
understand an electrical current flowing through you is good for  
keeping

corrosion at bay though, so at least I shouldn't rust :-)

Whether it's normal behaviour for the Powerbook doesn't answer the  
question

of whether it's bad for your body though.

The respondent you quote mentions "THE three-prong extension". Is  
this some
kind of standard piece of equipment that came with a Powerbook? If  
so, I

guess I'll go rummaging through my stuff and try find it.

Cheers, Steven


On 30/3/07 3:08 PM, "Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi Steven,

just did a Google on  mildelectricshockMacBook
. Apparently it is quite normal, first acknowledged in the days
of the TiBook. Below is what one respondent wrote to the query. Mind
you I never get a spark just a very minor buzz sensation through the
skin.

   Regards,
   Eugene

"The problem is that the Powerbook will ALWAYS shock you if you're
running it on mains electricity through the two-prong adapter (rather
than the extension cord), since the casing will always have a very
slight but measurable AC current running through it (117V AC).

I know this because my Alubook would ALWAYS spark when I connected my
firewire hard drives and audio interface (which have their own power
supplies), and I called up Apple, concerned about a Powerbook
grounding defect frying several thousand dollars' worth of studio
hardware.

Apparently, it's normal.

They told me to use the three-prong extension cord if I was feeling
alarmed.

So I do."


On 30/03/2007, at 12:58 PM, Steven wrote:

Thanks Bob. I'm afraid I'm a little clueless as to what all that  
means

though.

How do I make my power block (is that the same thing as the power
point?)
double insulated?

My Powerbook charger has a 2-pin plug on it, and yes, it is a 3-pin
socket.
Are you saying this shouldn't be the case? Is there such a thing as
a 3-pin
Powerbook charger? Is there anything that I can do if not?

What does electrically hot mean? Should I go get checked for total
body
cancer? Which of my internal organs have been slowly fried? (I must
have had
this thing on my lap for something like 2,000 hours over the past
15 months
- yikes). Which multi-national should I sue?!

Cheers, Steven


On 30/3/07 2:41 PM, "Robert Howells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On 30/03/2007, at 12:29 PM, Eugene wrote:


Hi Steven,

I must have very conductive skin as I have noticed this phenomena
with my current MB Pro and my previous PB. This only occurs when
the computer is attached to the powerblock. I can, at times, feel
it when I run my finger on the metallic case (very sensual!)  
but it
is most profound when I have it on my lap and touch someone  
else on

the skin.

  Regards,
  Eugene



Eugene , Steven ,

Your Power block is most likelySUPPOSEDto be  " Double
Insulated "

and using ONLY  a2 pin plug to connect to the wall 3 pin  
socket .


I suspect the case of your Power Book is electricallyHOT
which it

SHOULD NOT BE  !


CAREFUL   GUYS .


You really need somebody with an Oscilliscope who can confirm what
frequency
it is that is electrifying your Power Book case ...

? mains frequency ?or CPU frequency ... looking for a  
path to

ground .


Bob







On 30/03/2007, at 11:56 AM, Steven wrote:


I don’t know why I haven’t noticed this previously, I’ve had my
current
Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my
Powerbook on my
lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some
glitter on
her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but  
when I

touched
her skin it felt really weird.

Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped
when I
wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and  
when

I touched
my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is
giving the
weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.

I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a
small
electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower
arm when
it rests on the Powerbook.

I guess it must be electricity running thro

Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Eugene]

Hi Steven,

just did a Google on  mildelectricshockMacBook  
. Apparently it is quite normal, first acknowledged in the days  
of the TiBook. Below is what one respondent wrote to the query. Mind  
you I never get a spark just a very minor buzz sensation through the  
skin.


  Regards,
  Eugene

"The problem is that the Powerbook will ALWAYS shock you if you're  
running it on mains electricity through the two-prong adapter (rather  
than the extension cord), since the casing will always have a very  
slight but measurable AC current running through it (117V AC).


I know this because my Alubook would ALWAYS spark when I connected my  
firewire hard drives and audio interface (which have their own power  
supplies), and I called up Apple, concerned about a Powerbook  
grounding defect frying several thousand dollars' worth of studio  
hardware.


Apparently, it's normal.

They told me to use the three-prong extension cord if I was feeling  
alarmed.


So I do."


On 30/03/2007, at 12:58 PM, Steven wrote:


Thanks Bob. I'm afraid I'm a little clueless as to what all that means
though.

How do I make my power block (is that the same thing as the power  
point?)

double insulated?

My Powerbook charger has a 2-pin plug on it, and yes, it is a 3-pin  
socket.
Are you saying this shouldn't be the case? Is there such a thing as  
a 3-pin

Powerbook charger? Is there anything that I can do if not?

What does electrically hot mean? Should I go get checked for total  
body
cancer? Which of my internal organs have been slowly fried? (I must  
have had
this thing on my lap for something like 2,000 hours over the past  
15 months

- yikes). Which multi-national should I sue?!

Cheers, Steven


On 30/3/07 2:41 PM, "Robert Howells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On 30/03/2007, at 12:29 PM, Eugene wrote:


Hi Steven,

I must have very conductive skin as I have noticed this phenomena
with my current MB Pro and my previous PB. This only occurs when
the computer is attached to the powerblock. I can, at times, feel
it when I run my finger on the metallic case (very sensual!) but it
is most profound when I have it on my lap and touch someone else on
the skin.

  Regards,
  Eugene



Eugene , Steven ,

Your Power block is most likelySUPPOSEDto be  " Double
Insulated "

and using ONLY  a2 pin plug to connect to the wall 3 pin socket .

I suspect the case of your Power Book is electricallyHOT
which it

SHOULD NOT BE  !


CAREFUL   GUYS .


You really need somebody with an Oscilliscope who can confirm what
frequency
it is that is electrifying your Power Book case ...

? mains frequency ?or CPU frequency ... looking for a path to
ground .


Bob







On 30/03/2007, at 11:56 AM, Steven wrote:


I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my
current
Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my
Powerbook on my
lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some
glitter on
her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I
touched
her skin it felt really weird.

Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped
when I
wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when
I touched
my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is
giving the
weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.

I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a
small
electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower
arm when
it rests on the Powerbook.

I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a
health
risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.

Cheers, Steven




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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Steven]

Thanks Bob. I'm afraid I'm a little clueless as to what all that means
though.

How do I make my power block (is that the same thing as the power point?)
double insulated?

My Powerbook charger has a 2-pin plug on it, and yes, it is a 3-pin socket.
Are you saying this shouldn't be the case? Is there such a thing as a 3-pin
Powerbook charger? Is there anything that I can do if not?

What does electrically hot mean? Should I go get checked for total body
cancer? Which of my internal organs have been slowly fried? (I must have had
this thing on my lap for something like 2,000 hours over the past 15 months
- yikes). Which multi-national should I sue?!

Cheers, Steven


On 30/3/07 2:41 PM, "Robert Howells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On 30/03/2007, at 12:29 PM, Eugene wrote:
> 
>> Hi Steven,
>> 
>> I must have very conductive skin as I have noticed this phenomena
>> with my current MB Pro and my previous PB. This only occurs when
>> the computer is attached to the powerblock. I can, at times, feel
>> it when I run my finger on the metallic case (very sensual!) but it
>> is most profound when I have it on my lap and touch someone else on
>> the skin.
>> 
>>   Regards,
>>   Eugene
> 
> 
> Eugene , Steven ,
> 
> Your Power block is most likelySUPPOSEDto be  " Double
> Insulated "
> 
> and using ONLY  a2 pin plug to connect to the wall 3 pin socket .
> 
> I suspect the case of your Power Book is electricallyHOT
> which it
> 
> SHOULD NOT BE  !
> 
> 
> CAREFUL   GUYS .
> 
> 
> You really need somebody with an Oscilliscope who can confirm what
> frequency
> it is that is electrifying your Power Book case ...
> 
> ? mains frequency ?or CPU frequency ... looking for a path to
> ground .
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 30/03/2007, at 11:56 AM, Steven wrote:
>> 
>>> I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my
>>> current
>>> Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my
>>> Powerbook on my
>>> lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some
>>> glitter on
>>> her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I
>>> touched
>>> her skin it felt really weird.
>>> 
>>> Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped
>>> when I
>>> wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when
>>> I touched
>>> my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is
>>> giving the
>>> weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.
>>> 
>>> I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a
>>> small
>>> electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower
>>> arm when
>>> it rests on the Powerbook.
>>> 
>>> I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
>>> electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a
>>> health
>>> risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.
>>> 
>>> Cheers, Steven



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Robert Howells]

On 30/03/2007, at 12:29 PM, Eugene wrote:


Hi Steven,

I must have very conductive skin as I have noticed this phenomena  
with my current MB Pro and my previous PB. This only occurs when  
the computer is attached to the powerblock. I can, at times, feel  
it when I run my finger on the metallic case (very sensual!) but it  
is most profound when I have it on my lap and touch someone else on  
the skin.


  Regards,
  Eugene



Eugene , Steven ,

Your Power block is most likelySUPPOSEDto be  " Double  
Insulated "


and using ONLY  a2 pin plug to connect to the wall 3 pin socket .

I suspect the case of your Power Book is electricallyHOT
which it

SHOULD NOT BE  !


CAREFUL   GUYS .


You really need somebody with an Oscilliscope who can confirm what  
frequency

it is that is electrifying your Power Book case ...

? mains frequency ?or CPU frequency ... looking for a path to  
ground .



Bob







On 30/03/2007, at 11:56 AM, Steven wrote:

I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my  
current
Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my  
Powerbook on my
lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some  
glitter on
her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I  
touched

her skin it felt really weird.

Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped  
when I
wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when  
I touched
my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is  
giving the

weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.

I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a  
small
electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower  
arm when

it rests on the Powerbook.

I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a  
health

risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.

Cheers, Steven



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Steven]

Good, at least I know it's not just me imagining things :-)

Should we be concerned though?


On 30/3/07 2:29 PM, "Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Steven,
> 
> I must have very conductive skin as I have noticed this phenomena
> with my current MB Pro and my previous PB. This only occurs when the
> computer is attached to the powerblock. I can, at times, feel it when
> I run my finger on the metallic case (very sensual!) but it is most
> profound when I have it on my lap and touch someone else on the skin.
> 
>Regards,
>Eugene
> 
> 
> On 30/03/2007, at 11:56 AM, Steven wrote:
> 
>> I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my
>> current
>> Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my
>> Powerbook on my
>> lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some
>> glitter on
>> her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I
>> touched
>> her skin it felt really weird.
>> 
>> Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped
>> when I
>> wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when
>> I touched
>> my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is
>> giving the
>> weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.
>> 
>> I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a small
>> electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower
>> arm when
>> it rests on the Powerbook.
>> 
>> I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
>> electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a
>> health
>> risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.
>> 
>> Cheers, Steven



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Steven]

Thanks Bob.

Just tried with and without battery charger connecting Powerbook to mains.
Vibrations when connected, they stop when disconnected.

I have the charger plugged in most of the time. Are we talking health risk
in that case do you think?

Steven


On 30/3/07 2:28 PM, "Robert Howells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On 30/03/2007, at 11:56 AM, Steven wrote:
> 
>> I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my
>> current
>> Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my
>> Powerbook on my
>> lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some
>> glitter on
>> her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I
>> touched
>> her skin it felt really weird.
>> 
>> Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped
>> when I
>> wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when
>> I touched
>> my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is
>> giving the
>> weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.
>> 
>> I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a small
>> electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower
>> arm when
>> it rests on the Powerbook.
>> 
>> I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
>> electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a
>> health
>> risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.
>> 
>> Cheers, Steven
> 
> 
> Steven ,
> 
> You do not say whether you have the Power book connected to the mains
> when this occurs .
> 
> If so , try it with mains unit disconnected  ( That isUNPLUGGED   )
> 
> BOB



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Eugene]

Hi Steven,

I must have very conductive skin as I have noticed this phenomena  
with my current MB Pro and my previous PB. This only occurs when the  
computer is attached to the powerblock. I can, at times, feel it when  
I run my finger on the metallic case (very sensual!) but it is most  
profound when I have it on my lap and touch someone else on the skin.


  Regards,
  Eugene


On 30/03/2007, at 11:56 AM, Steven wrote:

I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my  
current
Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my  
Powerbook on my
lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some  
glitter on
her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I  
touched

her skin it felt really weird.

Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped  
when I
wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when  
I touched
my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is  
giving the

weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.

I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a small
electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower  
arm when

it rests on the Powerbook.

I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a  
health

risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.

Cheers, Steven



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Re: 17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Robert Howells]

On 30/03/2007, at 11:56 AM, Steven wrote:

I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my  
current
Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my  
Powerbook on my
lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some  
glitter on
her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I  
touched

her skin it felt really weird.

Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped  
when I
wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when  
I touched
my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is  
giving the

weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.

I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a small
electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower  
arm when

it rests on the Powerbook.

I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a  
health

risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.

Cheers, Steven



Steven ,

You do not say whether you have the Power book connected to the mains
when this occurs .

If so , try it with mains unit disconnected  ( That isUNPLUGGED   )

BOB
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17" Powerbook sends vibrations through body ?

[Steven]

I don¹t know why I haven¹t noticed this previously, I¹ve had my current
Powerbook for nearly three years, but today, whilst I had my Powerbook on my
lap, my three year old daughter stood next to me. She had some glitter on
her shoulder, so I went to brush it off with my finger, but when I touched
her skin it felt really weird.

Cut a long story short, I figured out that the weirdness stopped when I
wasn't holding or touching the Powerbook. But when I was, and when I touched
my daughter's skin, it seems like tiny vibrations are what is giving the
weird sensation. My daughter says it tickles.

I imagine this has something to do with why occasionally I get a small
electric shock or static sensation on the inside part of my lower arm when
it rests on the Powerbook.

I guess it must be electricity running through my body. For all you
electrical engineers come health experts, is this some kind of  a health
risk? I spend a large part of most days with this thing on my lap.

Cheers, Steven



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