Re: Any formal notice

[Alan Ward]

I heard that Goat Herding is the new WO.

Alan

> On Oct 26, 2017, at 1:24 PM, Ken Anderson  wrote:
> 
> At least the WO union is in better shape than the united states… :(
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Gino Pacitti  wrote:
>> 
>> I do not think I am the first to notice the lack of activity on this list 
>> but I was just interested to know what was the State of the Union?
>> 
>> Gino
>> ___
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kenlists%40anderhome.com
>> 
>> This email sent to kenli...@anderhome.com
> 
> ___
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
> 
> This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Alive ?

[Alan Ward]

Alive and well.

> On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:08 AM, Flavio Donadio  wrote:
> 
> I am afraid of running with NSZombies enabled… ;-)
> 
>> On 6 Feb 2017, at 11:11, Jérémy DE ROYER  wrote:
>> 
>> Is there anyone alive ?
>> 
>> Jérémy
>> 
>> ___
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/flavio%40donadio.com.br
>> 
>> This email sent to fla...@donadio.com.br
> 
> 
> ___
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
> 
> This email sent to aw...@apple.com


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Closure of WOCommunity Association

[Alan Ward]

I heard Trump say that he'd ban all Ruby on Rails developers from entering the 
US and that WebObjects is in the state it's in because Tim refuses to actually 
call it what is.  I think he's also considering making Google pay for the wall 
around Apple's garden (just as soon as he renounces the boycott)

Alan


> On Jun 14, 2016, at 6:38 PM, The Larsons  wrote:
> 
> Crap. As the only American there next week, did I just win my own breakout 
> session discussing why Trump has become what he’s become? Qu sont les 
> toilettes?
> 
>> On Jun 14, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
>> 
>> It is not really terrible; it is just official confirmation of what has been 
>> obvious for a long time now. 
>>  
>> Make WebObjects Great Again!  Trump is missing the boat on this one!  ;-P
>>  
>>  
>> From:  on behalf 
>> of The Larsons 
>> Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:27 PM
>> To: Pascal Robert 
>> Cc: WebObjects-Dev 
>> Subject: Re: Closure of WOCommunity Association
>>  
>> I’ve been out of it for a while, but just went to catch up and YIKES! this 
>> is terrible! 
>>  
>> I WILL be in Montreal this year. I have meant to go for a years and finally 
>> thought I’d better do it. I guess I picked the right year!
>>  
>> I’m a hobbyist, but have used WO to write the ERP software my company uses 
>> to manage all its business. I guess I always just kind of thought it was a 
>> matter of time until developers saw the brilliance in this framework. Ugh. 
>>  
>> Anyhow, Pascal, I’ll help with that tab in Montreal. You’re not going to get 
>> stuck for a dime.
>>  
>> John
>>  
>> On May 11, 2016, at 3:49 PM, Pascal Robert  wrote:
>>  
>> I fond it weird to have to do that because we only have 32 guys at WOWODC, 
>> so we have a +6000$ deficit that I will have to pay from my pockets since I 
>> can't meet the minimum set by the hotel.
>> De : webobjects-dev-bounces+probert=macti...@lists.apple.com 
>>  de la part de 
>> Musall Maik 
>> Envoyé : 11 mai 2016 16:37:22
>> À : WebObjects-Dev
>> Objet : Re: Closure of WOCommunity Association
>>  
>> Hi guys,
>>  
>> I find this weird to be announced exclusively on Facebook of all places. I 
>> also find it inappropriate to be notified of something like this on short 
>> notice without a chance for the community to discuss the details before it's 
>> too late. 
>>  
>> Anyway, we can host the stuff at our company's hosting place. One VPS more 
>> ore less doesn't make a difference. If the hosting costs are the main 
>> factor, we can eliminate that.
>>  
>> Maik
>>  
>> Am 11.05.2016 um 21:06 schrieb jazzsalsa :
>>  
>> Hi WebObjects fans,
>>  
>> I just read this message on Facebook from Pascal:
>>  
>> Pascal Robert
>> 
>> 21 hrs · Montreal, QC, Canada
>> With the official death of WebObjects, it is time to announce the closure of 
>> the WOCommunity Association. We don't have any cash left to pay the expenses 
>> of WOWODC 2016 and the hosting.
>> WOWODC 2016 won't be cancelled. Unless someone wants to host the wiki and 
>> Jenkins, they will be shutdown at the end of the month. Recordings of WOWODC 
>> 2016 will only be available to attendees.
>>  
>> Very bad indeed. Therefore I created an overview of WebObjects fans I found 
>> on the wiki:
>>  
>> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=ADCCC076DD8AF29D!106=!ACckRFppMHmbsog=file%2cxlsx
>>  
>> Let's find out how to organize the migration. I just sent an email to RedHat 
>> (openshift) to see if they support it. 
>> 1. Could you be so kind to add your email address in case your are 
>> interested to receive updates about the migration? 
>> 2. Fill in the column ("continent") as well to figure out how we are 
>> distributed on the planet(for skype calls and meetups). 
>> 3. Mention if you support (need) the migration of the services maven, 
>> jenkins, wiki, others I forgot
>>  
>> Pascal, could you be so kind to fill in sheet "Infrastructure" about the 
>> size of the services we are talking about. This will help to migrate this 
>> easily.
>>  
>> Many thanks, Bart
>> ___
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/maik%40selbstdenker.ag
>> 
>> This email sent to m...@selbstdenker.ag
>>  
>> ___
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/the_larsons%40mac.com
>> 
>> This 

Re: Abandonware???

[Alan Ward]

I think Apple has abandoned WebObjects outside of Apple but not inside. Just my 
personal opinion

Alan


> On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Paul Yu  wrote:
> 
> I was reading this Wikipedia article.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware
> 
> Would the list agree that WebObjects is now abandonware?
> 
> "Definitions of "abandoned" vary, but in general it is like any item that is 
> abandoned - it is ignored by the owner, and as such product support and 
> possibly copyright enforcement are also "abandoned". It can refer to a 
> product that is no longer available for legal purchase, over the age where 
> the product creator feels an obligation to continue to support it, or where 
> operating systems or hardwareplatforms have evolved to such a degree that the 
> creator feels continued support cannot be financially justified."
> ___
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
> 
> This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Practical WebObjects book ???

[Alan Ward]

I think it would be great if we could get William Shatner to narrate it

Alan


 On Jan 8, 2015, at 2:28 PM, Ken Anderson kenli...@anderhome.com wrote:
 
 If you get Chuck to do it, I’ll contribute!
 
 On Jan 8, 2015, at 4:21 PM, Lon Varscsak lon.varsc...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 How many beers will it take to get a book on tape version?
 
 -Lon
 
 On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Chuck Hill ch...@gevityinc.com wrote:
 There is an official PDF:
 http://www.apress.com/9781590592960
 
 
 
 On 2015-01-08, 1:14 PM, Theodore Petrosky wrote:
 
 
 Was there (is there) a pdf version of this book. I have two copies (office 
 and home), but they are too fragile to carry in my bag. If there were a PDF 
 on the other hand.
 
 has anyone seen this?
 
 Ted
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40gevityinc.com
 
 This email sent to ch...@gevityinc.com
 
  ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lon.varscsak%40gmail.com
 
 This email sent to lon.varsc...@gmail.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kenlists%40anderhome.com
 
 This email sent to kenli...@anderhome.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Who said, WebObjects should not be used for new stuff?

[Alan Ward]

I don't think I'm giving anything away by saying that's a new DirectAction in 
an old app.  MZFinance has been around since the launch in 2003.

On Sep 17, 2014, at 4:30 AM, Markus Ruggiero mailingli...@kataputt.com wrote:

 Folks,
 just in case you have missed it:
 
 https://buy.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZFinance.woa/wa/offerOptOut
 
 This is the link to the tool for removing the U2 album from your iTunes 
 Library. Just look at the URL, somewhat familiar, isn't it? Maybe it is just 
 another direct action in an existing WO-App, but anyway I like seeing these 
 kind of URL.
 
 Regards
 ---markus---
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Who said, WebObjects should not be used for new stuff?

[Alan Ward]

I still follow but often can't comment ;-)

On Sep 17, 2014, at 10:36 AM, Paul Yu p...@mac.com wrote:

 Hi Alan
 
 wow, someone from Apple proper still follow this list :)
 
 Paul
 On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:29 PM, Alan Ward aw...@apple.com wrote:
 
 
 I don't think I'm giving anything away by saying that's a new DirectAction 
 in an old app.  MZFinance has been around since the launch in 2003.
 
 On Sep 17, 2014, at 4:30 AM, Markus Ruggiero mailingli...@kataputt.com 
 wrote:
 
 Folks,
 just in case you have missed it:
 
 https://buy.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZFinance.woa/wa/offerOptOut
 
 This is the link to the tool for removing the U2 album from your iTunes 
 Library. Just look at the URL, somewhat familiar, isn't it? Maybe it is 
 just another direct action in an existing WO-App, but anyway I like seeing 
 these kind of URL.
 
 Regards
 ---markus---
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pyu%40mac.com
 
 This email sent to p...@mac.com
 

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Who said, WebObjects should not be used for new stuff?

[Alan Ward]

Hey Ken, hope all is well with you too!

On Sep 17, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Ken Anderson kenli...@anderhome.com wrote:

 Alan’s the best!  Hey Alan - hope all is well!
 
 Ken
 
 On Sep 17, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Paul Yu p...@mac.com wrote:
 
 Hi Alan
 
 wow, someone from Apple proper still follow this list :)
 
 Paul
 On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:29 PM, Alan Ward aw...@apple.com wrote:
 
 
 I don't think I'm giving anything away by saying that's a new DirectAction 
 in an old app.  MZFinance has been around since the launch in 2003.
 
 On Sep 17, 2014, at 4:30 AM, Markus Ruggiero mailingli...@kataputt.com 
 wrote:
 
 Folks,
 just in case you have missed it:
 
 https://buy.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZFinance.woa/wa/offerOptOut
 
 This is the link to the tool for removing the U2 album from your iTunes 
 Library. Just look at the URL, somewhat familiar, isn't it? Maybe it is 
 just another direct action in an existing WO-App, but anyway I like seeing 
 these kind of URL.
 
 Regards
 ---markus---
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pyu%40mac.com
 
 This email sent to p...@mac.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kenlists%40anderhome.com
 
 This email sent to kenli...@anderhome.com
 

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: WebObjects-Projects?

[Alan Ward]

I prefer sunny side up ;-)

On Mar 5, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Chuck Hill ch...@global-village.net wrote:

 On 2014-03-05, 1:23 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
 
 It's not only Mike who was poached by Apple. Kieran, Miguel Arroz, Mark 
 Ritchie, Q, Guido, the list is quite long.
 
 I think “poached” reflects the wrong attitude.  We did not own them.  Apple 
 offered them jobs working on some really interesting, high visibility things 
 that make a real difference to people in an environment that I assume makes 
 engineers happy and compensates them well.  Hell, I “poached Miguel first 
 and make a run at some of the others.
 
 A more valid complaint is that they have not been giving back to the 
 community as they did some years ago.  But, really, what is their motivation 
 to do so?  What have we given them in the last few years?
 
 
 Chuck
 
 75% of the community wants to keep using WO, but not much people are doing 
 anything to improve things. It will be my last WOWODC, I'm tired to trying to 
 improve the conference while having less and less people coming to the 
 conference? It's time that I can care of my health and have some fun instead 
 of being full of stress.
 
 - Mail original -
 De: Ramsey Gurley rgur...@smarthealth.com
 À: Jürgen Simon si...@webtecc.com
 Cc: webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
 Envoyé: Mercredi 5 Mars 2014 15:12:49
 Objet: Re: WebObjects-Projects?
 
 
 On Mar 5, 2014, at 4:37 AM, Jürgen Simon si...@webtecc.com wrote:
 
 Hello,
 this is not a technical inquiry, more a temperature check on the business 
 side of WebObjects. It is my impression that at least in Germany, after the 
 2008/2009 crisis the market for WebObjects-projects has really been down a 
 lot. I have been looking hi and lo for opportunities to work with WO again, 
 but apart from self-initiated projects there was nothing going on.
 Is this perception limited to Germany or is it even just me? Are there any 
 project marketplaces for WO that I am not aware of? How much of a future 
 would you guys think WO really has?
 Kind Regards,
 Jürgen
 
 
 Having worked with WO for a while now, I think it’s safe for me to say WO has 
 a limited future.
 
 For one, Apple did not open source it when they left it for dead in 
 2008/2009. The “Apple only hardware” license restriction is pretty lame too. 
 I seems they did this hoping to kill it. It appears they are looking at other 
 solutions besides WO for their own usage. The last time I saw an @apple.com 
 address break radio silence, it was on the Cayenne list. It seems pretty 
 tragic, but that’s what it looks like from the outside.
 
 Two, Anjo left Wonder. Mike was poached by Apple and has been MIA since.  
 Without Anjo to keep people in line, I’ve noticed the quality of 
 contributions have declined. Without Mike’s tireless contributions, I’ve 
 noticed most commits are not in the form of great useful new frameworks, but 
 refactoring of old frameworks. Refactoring combined with loose quality 
 control has made Wonder something that went from “I can’t wait to update my 
 repo” to “I’m scared if I update my repo, stuff is going to break… again.”
 
 Third, the type of applications WO excels at are no longer in demand. If you 
 make an app that requires someone to poke in 42 text fields on their 
 smartphone, you are doing it wrong. But that’s exactly the sort of app that 
 WO is purpose built to handle. Dynamic URLs are universally hated by the 
 marketing department. Why can’t we just have domain.com/page?? WO URLs are 
 horrible for SEO!!”  WO can give you a table of data sorted and nested inside 
 another table of data which is also sorted and nested as deep as you want to 
 go. Automatically. And it will keep track of all that, but then... who’s 
 going to read a table that big on a 5” screen? The design department wants 
 minimal info on the page, please. Just the facts ma’am. Those sort of desktop 
 apps have already been built. They’re now in maintenance mode. No one is 
 going to rewrite them in WO any sooner that someone is going to rewrite all 
 the WO apps in something else.
 
 Fourth, the tooling is showing bit rot. Q is the only person left who really 
 has a handle on how WOLips works. My copy of rule modeler is buggy as hell 
 and crashes 50% of the time I try to launch or save something under 
 Mavericks. Installing WO for dev or deployment requires a PhD in WebObjects. 
 Monitor slowly becomes less and less responsive until you’re forced to reboot 
 it. Even when it works, it doesn’t really monitor everything I need to know. 
 Memory, cpu, disk space? Oh, go get Nagios and add to your administration 
 nightmare.
 
 Finally, there’s the learning cliff involved with WO. WO developers are as 
 rare as unicorns. Learning WO in depth takes months/years to do, even for an 
 experienced Java developer. In a lot of cases, the WO app that is out there 
 isn’t in prime condition and requires lots of maintenance. It was probably 
 built on an existing legacy database 

Re: [Excel] - Maximum column with EGSimpleTableCreator

[Alan Ward]

What's Excel?  I thought it was a car :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Excel

Alan


On Apr 3, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Dev WO webobje...@anazys.com wrote:

 I don't want to believe I'm the only one on this list to have to deal with 
 Excel;)
 Any pointer/recommendation regarding the Excel generation column limit?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Xavier
 
 On 28 mars 2013, at 20:54, Dev WO webobje...@anazys.com wrote:
 
 Hello list,
 
 I found a thread from 2010 about this, mentioning the the pre-2007 Excel 
 limitation regarding the number of columns.
 I looked at the code from EGSimpleTableParser and EGSimpleTableCreator and 
 related Properties' file but didn't find anything in them related to this 
 limitation.
 It looks like the only way to get more than 255 columns in Excel is using 
 the xlsx format through org.apache.poi.ss.usermodel instead of the 
 org.apache.poi.hssf.usermodel.
 
 I'm wondering how people creating Excel export on this list are handling 
 that, are you all using Aspose or did I overlooked something in Wonder?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Xavier
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40anazys.com
 
 This email sent to webobje...@anazys.com
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: WebObjects in NYC

[Alan Ward]

There are a bunch of Apple guys in the NYC area that do WebObjects development 
too.

Alan

On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Jesse Tayler jtay...@oeinc.com wrote:

 well then!
 
 let's have a local meet up or something --
 
 
 
 
 On Jan 31, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Ken Anderson kenli...@anderhome.com wrote:
 
 Who said that?  I am…
 
 On Jan 31, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Theodore Petroglyphs tedp...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 So is this true?  Jesse and I are the only WebObjects developers in NYC?
 
 Ted
 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kenlists%40anderhome.com
 
 This email sent to kenli...@anderhome.com
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jtayler%40oeinc.com
 
 This email sent to jtay...@oeinc.com
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Detecting POST vs GET

[Alan Ward]

if (POST.equals(request().method())) {
}

Alan


On Jan 23, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Klaus Berkling wrote:

 This question may be elementary, but...
 
 How can you tell if a form's submit method was POST or GET? I need to make 
 sure that my form data was not submitted with GET, i.e. where the form data 
 shows up in the URL. 
 
 I would have to check that there was no GET data. I can see the POST data in 
 request().contentString().
 I suppose I can examine the URI for something after the ?.  Is there an 
 easier way?
 
 Thanks
 
 
 kib
 
 The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling 
 expedients, of delays, is coming to its close. In its place we are entering a 
 period of consequences.
 Winston Churchill
 
 Klaus Berkling
 Web Application Dev.  Systems Analyst
 DynEd International, Inc.
 www.dyned.com | blog
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Apple Representation On WebObjects-Dev Mailing List?

[Alan Ward]

There are plenty of insiders on the list but I doubt any of them will give 
you an official position.

Alan


On Jul 6, 2011, at 10:27 AM, Robert B. Hanviriyapunt wrote:

 Who, if anyone, represents Apple on this mailing list?  When it comes to 
 questions of open-sourcing WO or the availability of WO, the answer should be 
 posted by an Apple official rep. in this mailing list.  Anyone can opine, but 
 I think the group benefits greatly when an official word is heard -- second 
 best to that is an insider, even if not officially charged by Apple to 
 represent in the list.
 
 Thoughts anyone?
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Apple Representation On WebObjects-Dev Mailing List?

[Alan Ward]

It's going to take 'em a while to get here if they're in the standard issue 
Jeep ;-)

Alan

On Jul 6, 2011, at 12:00 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

 Alan, be advised that I've dispatched security to your office for breaking 
 radio silence.
 
 ms
 
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 12:40 PM, Alan Ward wrote:
 
 
 There are plenty of insiders on the list but I doubt any of them will give 
 you an official position.
 
 Alan
 
 
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 10:27 AM, Robert B. Hanviriyapunt wrote:
 
 Who, if anyone, represents Apple on this mailing list?  When it comes to 
 questions of open-sourcing WO or the availability of WO, the answer should 
 be posted by an Apple official rep. in this mailing list.  Anyone can 
 opine, but I think the group benefits greatly when an official word is 
 heard -- second best to that is an insider, even if not officially 
 charged by Apple to represent in the list.
 
 Thoughts anyone?
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com
 
 This email sent to msch...@pobox.com
 

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Apple Representation On WebObjects-Dev Mailing List?

[Alan Ward]

On Jul 6, 2011, at 2:38 PM, Joel M. Benisch wrote:

 Oh how I miss the well defined structure of the RPG II processing cycle.
 Was so simple and elegant..
 And easy to learn!!  :-)
 
 And being able to pick up a card and read it by interpreting the hole punches 
 in your head was the geek's equivalent of winning the Super Bowl

Either that or being able to toggle in the boot sequence on a PDP11 without 
referring to any manuals.  Ah, the good ol' days.

Alan

 
 Those were the days
 --
 Joel M. Benisch CPCU, President 
 973-992-6300 x303
 PaperFree Corporation   
 973-992- FAX
 909 Regal Boulevard 
 j...@paperfree.net
 Livingston, NJ 07039-8249   WE CREATE PRODUCTS WE WOULD WANT TO USE!
 
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 4:25 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
 
 
 On 2011-07-06, at 1:57 PM, Karl wrote:
 
 I see it every day at the airport.  Was that a CICS exception or VSAM issue?
 
 Oh...wow...no it was a ‘RTSO’ exception.  (Real time sharing option for you 
 youngsters...now I am really ageing myself).
 
 And bringing back long suppressed memories for some of us. 
 
 
 Can you believe that they charged $2-3k per year for your terminal to 
 respond in some semblance of real time?
 
 Karl
 
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Petite Abeille wrote:
 
 
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Ken Anderson wrote:
 
 To me, just the fact that WebObjects has been around since 1996 (15 
 years!) means that it has more legs than any other tool I can think of.
 
 Rumor has it that COBOL is still going strong in some less travelled 
 corner of Elbonia :))  ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kgretton%40mac.com
 
 This email sent to kgret...@mac.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net
 
 This email sent to ch...@global-village.net
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall 
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmb%40paperfree.net
 
 This email sent to j...@paperfree.net
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Apple Representation On WebObjects-Dev Mailing List?

[Alan Ward]

On Jul 6, 2011, at 3:53 PM, Petite Abeille wrote:

 
 On Jul 6, 2011, at 10:52 PM, Alan Ward wrote:
 
 And being able to pick up a card and read it by interpreting the hole 
 punches in your head was the geek's equivalent of winning the Super Bowl
 
 Either that or being able to toggle in the boot sequence on a PDP11 without 
 referring to any manuals.  Ah, the good ol' days.
 
 Borderline necrophilic. Might explains why some stick with fossilized 
 toolkits. Ah, the good ol' days :))

I didn't say I could do that (but I did know people who could)

 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: How to use dates

[Alan Ward]

This thread was a bit of a let down after a title like that.

On May 14, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Daniel Mejia wrote:

 Paul,
 
 I want to try your solution, but I can't find the Framework. I checked all 
 the directories for the ProjectWonder 54, but I can't find it. I looked for 
 the ERAttributeExtension.java but is not in all the Wonder subdirectories.
 Is it only available in Wonder 5.0?
 
 Regards,
 
 Daniel.
 
 
 On 14/05/2011, at 05:26, Paul Hoadley wrote:
 
 Hi Daniel,
 
 On 14/05/2011, at 3:07 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
 
 If you just want the date, and not the time, then JodaTime is probably 
 better for you to use.  Search the list archives for details.
 
 Have a look at the ERAttributeExtension framework which allows pretty 
 seamless use of the Joda Time classes:
 
 http://webobjects.mdimension.com/hudson/job/Wonder/javadoc/er/attributeextension/package-summary.html
 
 What you probably want is the LocalDate class for 1-day resolution dates.
 
 
 -- 
 Paul.
 
 http://logicsquad.net/
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: InOverMyHead {obviously};

[Alan Ward]

I heard the parties often include goats

On May 6, 2011, at 12:28 PM, Tim Worman wrote:

 On the contrary, I haven't met a single one of you in person (yet) and from 
 what I can tell you're just a bunch of drunks who plan a big party once a 
 year.
 
 And, boy do I wish I could come. :-(
 
 This list is super helpful - greatest folks around.
 
 Tim Worman
 UCLA GSEIS
 
 On May 6, 2011, at 11:12 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:
 
 We should probably point out to Kevin that many of us have known each other 
 for years after meeting at conferences and work and that a lot of good 
 natured ribbing occurs on the list.  There is no animosity here and we keep 
 it like that.
 
 
 Chuck
 
 
 On May 6, 2011, at 11:05 AM, David Avendasora wrote:
 On May 6, 2011, at 11:56 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote:
 
 2) Don't be shy about asking. This community is very willing to help in 
 general. We all were beginners at one time, although David Avendasora has 
 been struggling for years to get past asking stupid questions ;-)
 
 Over 6 years to be exact... :-)
 
 I pride myself on my bar-lowering abilities!
 
 I feel that a well placed stupid question works wonders to help you 
 high-horse code gurus down to a more approachable level.
 
 Would you believe that for every question I ask on the list, I've gotten 
 part way through writing at least 5 or 6 others? I find that while trying 
 to more clearly state what I need or what is going wrong, the answer 
 becomes obvious, which, I guess, means that no one is more helpful than you 
 guys.
 
 Literally.
 
 :-P
 
 Seriously though, the list is awesome, and I've only ever gotten a RTFM 
 answer once or twice in 6 years of WO development work. I couldn't possibly 
 list the number of people on this list that have gone far out of their way 
 to help me, even with the stupid questions. I've tried to pay it back by 
 answering any questions that I can and updating the Wiki when I see out of 
 date information.
 
 Long Live Direct To Java Client!
 
 (just had to throw that in)
 
 Dave
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Come to WOWODC this July for unparalleled WO learning opportunities and real 
 peer to peer problem solving!  Network, socialize, and enjoy a great 
 cosmopolitan city.  See you there!  http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc11/
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists%40thetimmy.com
 
 This email sent to li...@thetimmy.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: WebObjects scalability question - WOSession?

[Alan Ward]

Mike, couldn't you just have just left everyone with the cosy misconception 
that 
we wrote all this code 7 years ago, got it right first time and haven't had 
to touch it since?

Alan

On Nov 16, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Michael Gargano wrote:

 If you DO become iTunes, Google, or Twitter, your app won't scale. Period. 
 I've never seen a system that scales without investing substantial 
 engineering effort in profiling and rearchitecture after deployment.
 
 This made it to my wall.  I'm going to point at it whenever someone gets 
 another crazy idea.
 
 
 
 On Nov 15, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 If you DO become iTunes, Google, or Twitter, your app won't scale. Period. 
 I've never seen a system that scales without investing substantial 
 engineering effort in profiling and rearchitecture after deployment
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: WebObjects scalability question - WOSession?

[Alan Ward]

On Nov 16, 2010, at 12:16 PM, David LeBer wrote:

 On 2010-11-16, at 2:11 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 Of course I meant except ours :) That's why my title is Senior Engineer 
 of Martini-Pouring Services, making sure we're all comfortably numb while 
 we kick back and relax.
 
 OK, the images I'm getting of you folks lounging around a pool sipping Mai 
 Tais and waving palm fronds at one another is just way too creepy.

The reality is just as creepy as the image - just trust me on that one!

Alan

 
 Thanks for that.
 
 
 ms
 
 On Nov 16, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Alan Ward wrote:
 
 
 Mike, couldn't you just have just left everyone with the cosy misconception 
 that 
 we wrote all this code 7 years ago, got it right first time and haven't 
 had to touch it since?
 
 Alan
 
 On Nov 16, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Michael Gargano wrote:
 
 If you DO become iTunes, Google, or Twitter, your app won't scale. 
 Period. I've never seen a system that scales without investing substantial 
 engineering effort in profiling and rearchitecture after deployment.
 
 This made it to my wall.  I'm going to point at it whenever someone gets 
 another crazy idea.
 
 
 
 On Nov 15, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 If you DO become iTunes, Google, or Twitter, your app won't scale. 
 Period. I've never seen a system that scales without investing 
 substantial engineering effort in profiling and rearchitecture after 
 deployment
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dleber_wodev%40codeferous.com
 
 This email sent to dleber_wo...@codeferous.com
 
 ;david
 
 --
 David LeBer
 Codeferous Software
 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing'
 site: http://codeferous.com
 blog: http://davidleber.net
 profile:  http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber
 twitter:  http://twitter.com/rebeld
 --
 Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group:
 http://tacow.org
 
 
 
 

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: WebObjects scalability question - WOSession?

[Alan Ward]

It almost amuses me that we having these WO scalability conversations now.   10 
years ago it was a ballsy move to use
WO for a big online application.  Now I think it's more proven than ever even 
though the pace of development has
clearly scaled back.  It's funny that none of the newer technologies really 
offer anything that's clearly better.

Just my [personal] $0.02

Alan


On Nov 16, 2010, at 3:40 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

 It was for dramatic literary effect ... Obviously every technology has things 
 that are cool and things that are terrible. However, I have to say that I'm 
 pretty disappointed that, after 13 years, there isn't a clear choice of a 
 technology to switch to from WO. For all of its pitfalls, I think WO has a 
 really good balance of engineering decisions, and the length of its survival 
 is a testament to that. Given that there has really been almost no external 
 development of WO in years, you'd think that I could name a single technology 
 that is an obvious choice to move to that has comparable trade-offs, but I 
 have yet to see one that excites me in the same way. The problem is that you 
 can't just make a suck ratio, because everyone has different values for suck 
 coefficients. You could probably make a suck linear combination, though.
 
 ms
 
 On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Ian Joyner wrote:
 
 Now that I think of it, I'm not so sure I do agree that every technology 
 sucks. I certainly can appreciate well-designed elegant technologies that 
 solve a problem well. That's part of the excitement with this profession. If 
 everything just sucked most of us wouldn't be in it, well maybe those who 
 are just in it for the money, and perhaps they dominate the industry anyway, 
 which sucks and why there might be a high suck factor in technologies that 
 actually are used. And if all these technologies just sucked there would be 
 no use for them and end users would reject them. The uses that we can put 
 computers to are cool actually!
 
 Most computing systems are multifaceted, so there may be elements that are 
 elegant and parts that suck. What we need is a measure of elegance to suck 
 ratio.
 
 Ian
 
 PS I went through messages back to 2005, but couldn't find the first 
 reference to REST. Mail find picks up all words like restart, restrict, etc. 
 ERRest seems to be first mentioned Nov 2007, but I know we were talking 
 about REST before that - I first read Fielding's thesis sometime that year.
 
 On 16 Nov 2010, at 12:33, Ian Joyner wrote:
 
 On 16 Nov 2010, at 12:23, Chuck Hill wrote:
 
 On Nov 15, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 The moral of the story is that every technology sucks, so you might as 
 well just build it fast so it can suck in production faster and you can 
 move on with your life.
 
 I hate it when he is right.
 
 Don't think I hate it, but I think we all agree anyway. We should choose 
 the path of least pain.
 
 By the way I did write up my understanding of REST lately:
 
 http://www.ianjoyner.name/Ian_Joyner/REST.html
 
 I hope this might be useful, or if any errors let me know.
 
 By the way, I think it was Chuck who was the first person I ever heard use 
 the term REST.
 
 Ian
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ianjoyner%40me.com
 
 This email sent to ianjoy...@me.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com
 
 This email sent to msch...@pobox.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [OT] No more XServe

[Alan Ward]

Wow.  Talk about fud.

On Nov 5, 2010, at 2:46 PM, Karl wrote:

 I think that OS X server, as a product, is going away. 
 
 Its probably just going to be an optional package to iOS ‘Lion’ sold for $79.
 
 Karl
 
 On 2010-11-05, at 4:39 PM, André Mitra wrote:
 
 Yes, but will anyone with a Mac Mini upgrade to Server Lion for $499?
 
 On 2010-11-05, at 4:09 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
 
 And indeed, it sells well. I went to buy a Mac Mini Server a month ago
 at a local reseller and they said they sell at least 10 of them, and
 that's just a small reseller in south shore Montreal. I'm pretty sure
 Apple sells at least 1000 Mac Mini Server per month.
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kgretton%40mac.com
 
 This email sent to kgret...@mac.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Single stack optimistic lock exception?

[Alan Ward]

Maybe I shouldn't ask but it's killing me not to.  What exactly doesn't 
work about it? 

Alan

On Sep 24, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:

 because OL doesn't work anyway ;)
 uh oh .. here he goes again :)
 
 ms
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Single stack optimistic lock exception?

[Alan Ward]

On Sep 24, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

 IIRC, the issue is:
 
   EOEditingContext ec1 = ERXEC.newEditingContext();
   ec1.lock();
   Car c1 = Car.fetchAllCars(ec1).objectAtIndex(0);
   EOEditingContext ec2 = ERXEC.newEditingContext();
   ec2.lock();
   Car c2 = c1.localInstanceIn(ec2);
   c1.setName(New Car Name 1);
   c2.setName(New Car Name 2);
   ec1.saveChanges();
   ec1.unlock();
   ec2.saveChanges();
   ec2.unlock();
 
 you don't get an optimistic locking failure in step #6, because the 
 editingcontext automatically merges changes, and the backing snapshot is 
 updated.
 
 Mark would say that you address this by implementing the 
 editingContextShouldMergeChangesForObject method on EC.Delegate, but IMO, 
 that really makes your work for it. There is some truth to what Miguel says 
 ... It does seem odd that within a single instance, you simply don't get OL 
 failures. You only get them from multiple instances or outside data editors. 
 To make that delegate behave in the same way, you have to keep your own 
 snapshot changes in your delegate and check them prior to the EC committing, 
 essentially implementing OL yourself.
 
 The proper fix for this is to have the EO keep its original snapshot from the 
 point when it was brought into the EC, and use THAT for the OL update clause 
 rather than the shared snapshot cache. The problem with this is that I think 
 people will constantly get OL failures a LOT more than before for relatively 
 normal cases. You could probably tweak this behavior to automerge any object 
 as long as it hasn't been touched in your EC.
 
 Regardless, Miguel's not totally crazy :)

Interesting.  I've never really thought about it that way.  I've always 
considered it to be a way to find out if something 
outside of my app instance changed the data underneath me.  If you think about 
it like that then it works perfectly.
Inside my app instance I like to think that I know what's going on and don't 
need any help from Optimistic Locking
but maybe I'm crazy.

Alan

 
 ms
 
 
 On Sep 24, 2010, at 1:33 PM, Alan Ward wrote:
 
 
 Maybe I shouldn't ask but it's killing me not to.  What exactly doesn't 
 work about it? 
 
 Alan
 
 On Sep 24, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 because OL doesn't work anyway ;)
 uh oh .. here he goes again :)
 
 ms
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com
 
 This email sent to msch...@pobox.com
 

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Single stack optimistic lock exception?

[Alan Ward]

On Sep 24, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

 On Sep 24, 2010, at 11:27 AM, Miguel Arroz wrote:
 
 Regardless, Miguel's not totally crazy :)
 
 Yet, my friend. Yet. Computers will kill me someday. And french routers too.
 
 
 French routers.  Sounds like English automobiles.

Hey!  There are some very fine examples of English automobiles.Of course, 
there used to be many more
but a lot of them now have tenuous connections to England (e.g. Lotus)

Alan


 
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall 
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Single stack optimistic lock exception?

[Alan Ward]

On Sep 24, 2010, at 12:31 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

 
 On Sep 24, 2010, at 11:26 AM, Alan Ward wrote:
 
 
 On Sep 24, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 IIRC, the issue is:
 
 EOEditingContext ec1 = ERXEC.newEditingContext();
 ec1.lock();
 Car c1 = Car.fetchAllCars(ec1).objectAtIndex(0);
 EOEditingContext ec2 = ERXEC.newEditingContext();
 ec2.lock();
 Car c2 = c1.localInstanceIn(ec2);
 c1.setName(New Car Name 1);
 c2.setName(New Car Name 2);
 ec1.saveChanges();
 ec1.unlock();
 ec2.saveChanges();
 ec2.unlock();
 
 you don't get an optimistic locking failure in step #6, because the 
 editingcontext automatically merges changes, and the backing snapshot is 
 updated.
 
 Mark would say that you address this by implementing the 
 editingContextShouldMergeChangesForObject method on EC.Delegate, but IMO, 
 that really makes your work for it. There is some truth to what Miguel says 
 ... It does seem odd that within a single instance, you simply don't get OL 
 failures. You only get them from multiple instances or outside data 
 editors. To make that delegate behave in the same way, you have to keep 
 your own snapshot changes in your delegate and check them prior to the EC 
 committing, essentially implementing OL yourself.
 
 The proper fix for this is to have the EO keep its original snapshot from 
 the point when it was brought into the EC, and use THAT for the OL update 
 clause rather than the shared snapshot cache. The problem with this is that 
 I think people will constantly get OL failures a LOT more than before for 
 relatively normal cases. You could probably tweak this behavior to 
 automerge any object as long as it hasn't been touched in your EC.
 
 Regardless, Miguel's not totally crazy :)
 
 Interesting.  I've never really thought about it that way.  I've always 
 considered it to be a way to find out if something 
 outside of my app instance changed the data underneath me.  If you think 
 about it like that then it works perfectly.
 Inside my app instance I like to think that I know what's going on and don't 
 need any help from Optimistic Locking
 but maybe I'm crazy.
 
 My vote is that you are crazy.  :-)  This becomes an issue in apps where 
 users concurrently edit the same object.  Out of the box, it is last in wins 
 and the second user to save gets no warning that what they are actually 
 editing is not what they were looking at.

Right, but there are various ways around that.  

Alan

 
 Chuck
 
 
 
 On Sep 24, 2010, at 1:33 PM, Alan Ward wrote:
 
 
 Maybe I shouldn't ask but it's killing me not to.  What exactly 
 doesn't work about it? 
 
 Alan
 
 On Sep 24, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 because OL doesn't work anyway ;)
 uh oh .. here he goes again :)
 
 ms
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com
 
 This email sent to msch...@pobox.com
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net
 
 This email sent to ch...@global-village.net
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall 
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: NSDictionary.isEmpty

[Alan Ward]

I don't even see how a race condition could cause that as both the variable and 
the method are accessed several times 
during the course of printing his debug output and [he claims] they both have 
differing but consistent values. Bizarre.

Alan

On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:

 are you  sure? are you using the same version of NSDictionary that is in 
 wonder trunk? that's impossible, basically, unless that dictionary is being 
 attacked by multiple threads and you'e in the middle of a race condition 
 ...
 
 On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:34 AM, ISHIMOTO Ken wrote:
 
 Hi all, was a nice WOWODC, and really nice Job done Pascal.
 
 
 
 I have a small Problem about NSDictionary.
 
  NSArrayMovie movies= 
 Movie.fetchAllMovies(defaultEditingContext());
  EOEnterpriseObject eo = movies.objectAtIndex(0);
  NSDictionary pDic = 
 EOUtilities.primaryKeyForObject(defaultEditingContext(), eo);
  System.err.println(1: + pDic); --1:{movieID = 102; }
  System.err.println(isEmpty: + pDic.isEmpty()); --isEmpty:true
  System.err.println(count: + pDic.count()); --count:1
 
 
 Hadn't isEmpty not to be false ?
 
 Also looking into isEmpty 
 
  public int count() {
  return _count;
  }
 
  public boolean isEmpty() {
  System.err.println(_count :  + _count); --_count : 0
  System.err.println(count() :  + count()); --count : 1
  
  return _count = 0;
  }
 
 
 Why is the result of _count and count() different?
 
 Any ideas what's going wrong?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Thank you
 
 
 K's ROOM  (ISHIMOTO Ken)
 
 [E-Mail]  k...@ksroom.com
 [iChat:]   ibase_...@mac.com
 [HP]  http://www.ksroom.com/
 _
 This e-mail has not been scanned for viruses because it was written on an 
 Mac,
 and there are NO Viruses on an Apple Computer.
 For further information visit http://www.apple.com
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com
 
 This email sent to msch...@pobox.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?

[Alan Ward]

I liked your grumpy response better ;-)

Alan

On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:22 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:

 Here's my slightly less grumpy response :)
 
 Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on lots of 
 variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology doesn't make sense? 
 what is the expertise of our current staffing? what are the goals for the 
 project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also the first to admit that WO and EOF 
 aren't the right fit for every problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that 
 drive me crazy, and there are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that 
 being WO inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails 
 app makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs Relational 
 debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just silly. But do NoSQL 
 databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring value to a certain set of 
 problems that relational doesn't address well. Likewise, Apple has public web 
 properties that are static html, php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, 
 webobjects, and I'm sure others and there are lots of different reasons in 
 each of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any 
 complex system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. 
 As far as details, you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't 
 roll that way.
 
 ms
 
 On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is develop 
 with JSF instead of WebObjects.
 Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
 
 Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ?
 
 Regards,
 
 Stéphan ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com
 
 This email sent to msch...@pobox.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?

[Alan Ward]

On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Pascal Robert wrote:

 So the message is : Learn WO, be good at it, and you likely be able to get a 
 job at Apple.

I believe quite a few people have done exactly that.

Alan

 
 Apple develop stuff with a wide variety of tools based upon available 
 developer resources.  The iTunes Store and MobileMe suck up virtually all 
 the WO developers that Apple can find and they then turn to other 
 technologies.
 
 Everything that I know of within Apple that is mission critical and in-house 
 developed is WO and from all that I have heard, it is likely to remain that 
 way.
 
 Regards,
 
 Karl
 
 On 2010-09-10, at 12:16 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote:
 
 Hi!
 
 PastedGraphic-2.png
 
 Yes, I'm sure they are not using WO. ;)
 
 Regards,
 
 Miguel Arroz
 
 On 2010/09/10, at 07:54, Mertz Stéphan wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is 
 develop with JSF instead of WebObjects.
 Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
 
 Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ?
 
 Regards,
 
 Stéphan ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/arroz%40guiamac.com
 
 This email sent to ar...@guiamac.com
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kgretton%40mac.com
 
 This email sent to kgret...@mac.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca
 
 This email sent to prob...@macti.ca
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?

[Alan Ward]

I wondered about that too!

Alan

On Sep 10, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Lon Varscsak wrote:

 I thought maybe Anjo had hijacked your email account. ;)
 
 -Lon
 
 On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote:
 I should ONLY send emails at 3:30am ...
 
 ms
 
 On Sep 10, 2010, at 10:48 AM, Alan Ward wrote:
 
 
 I liked your grumpy response better ;-)
 
 Alan
 
 On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:22 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 Here's my slightly less grumpy response :)
 
 Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on lots of 
 variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology doesn't make 
 sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? what are the goals 
 for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also the first to admit that 
 WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every problem. There are parts of WOF 
 and EOF that drive me crazy, and there are parts that are amazing. I also 
 don't think that being WO inherently makes you scalable any more than I 
 think being a Rails app makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like 
 the NoSQL vs Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's 
 just silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring 
 value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address well. 
 Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, php, 
 struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and there 
 are lots of different reasons in each of those cases why decisions were 
 made one way or another. In any complex system, you're probably going to 
 end up with a mix of technologies. As far as details, you're just not 
 going to get them because Apple doesn't roll that way.
 
 ms
 
 On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is 
 develop with JSF instead of WebObjects.
 Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
 
 Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ?
 
 Regards,
 
 Stéphan ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com
 
 This email sent to msch...@pobox.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 
 
  ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/varscsak%40smarthealth.com
 
 This email sent to varsc...@smarthealth.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?

[Alan Ward]

On Sep 10, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Michael DeMan wrote:

 Well
 
 I can not say for sure, but it is incredibly difficult to get folks who have 
 expertise in WebObjects anywhere, at low cost.  

Why would you want them at low cost?

 It also has been a dying technology since NeXT got Apple back.

I disagree.  Stable, yes.  Dying, no.

  I am not sure why it was never just open sourced, other than it must be that 
 somebody somewhere at ex-NeXT or Apple has an unreasonable ego.

It's not about anyone's ego.

Alan

 
 Also, there is no reason for a large company that has staffing requirements, 
 to not use technologies that have broader exposure in advance to incoming 
 technology professionals
 
 
 
 On Sep 9, 2010, at 11:54 PM, Mertz Stéphan wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is develop 
 with JSF instead of WebObjects.
 Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
 
 Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ?
 
 Regards,
 
 Stéphan ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40deman.com
 
 This email sent to webobje...@deman.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?

[Alan Ward]

On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:07 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

 On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:05 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
 
 The main problem is that every time someone is good at helping people and 
 with coding, Apple will snatch him.
 
 I'd like to think not everyone.  ;-)  Though they have tried.

You continue thinking whatever makes you happy Chunk ;-)

Alan

 
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall 
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Practical WebObjects eBook

[Alan Ward]

why is it not in the iBooks Store?

On Jun 22, 2010, at 6:15 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

 Hey all you iPad/iOS 4/Kindle(?) users out there, after a tweet from Q 
 (http://twitter.com/qdolan/status/16755226170) I checked it out and Practical 
 WebObjects (Chuck and Sacha's book) is available as an eBook from apress.com 
 at: http://apress.com/book/view/9781590592960
 
 I've tested their sample eBook and it works just fine on an iPad with iBooks 
 1.1.
 
 Dave ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: announcement

[Alan Ward]

We're hiring.  
Alan

On Apr 21, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

 If you know WO and want to work at Apple, just ask them.  I know they don't 
 have enough skilled WO developers.  I am not sure they could ever have enough.
 
 
 Chuck
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Lon Varscsak wrote:
 
 Maybe Apple should just hire us all and be done with it. :P  We're a drop in 
 the bucket compared to all of their employees world wide.
 
 On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Chuck Hill ch...@global-village.net wrote:
 Sure is getting lonely here, outside of The Mother Ship.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo
 
 Well, that is the end of an era.  I am sure that Bill and everyone at 
 mDimension will sorely miss you.  My thanks to Bill  Co for all the past 
 and future support of WebObjects (and Mike).  It has been really great and 
 it is good to know that they will remain active in WebObjects (albeit at 
 perhaps a slightly less frantic pace).
 
 And congratulations to Apple for sucking Mike The Unstoppable Code Machine 
 Schrag into it's black hole vortex of WO developers.  Did I mention it is 
 getting lonely out here?  I am sure good things will come of this.  I hope 
 we still see you on the lists now and then.
 
 Looking forward to seeing you again at WWDC / WOWODC.
 
 
 Chuck
 
 
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 Hey everyone ... I wanted to let you guys know that Apr 30 will be my last 
 day at mDimension. A few weeks ago, I accepted a position at Apple. Not to 
 worry, though -- supporting WOLips and Wonder will be part of my 
 responsibilities, so I'm far from disappearing. I think iTMS has done a 
 really good job demonstrating that they're committed to contributing, with 
 Entity Modeler app, eomodeldoc, and a substantial amount of work recently 
 with ERModernLook. The folks over there appreciate the value of the 
 WebObjects and Wonder communities, and I look forward to a lot of exciting 
 things in the future.
 
 As far as mDimension, we are parting on really good terms. They have been a 
 great company to work for over the past 5 years. For years before I came on, 
 Bill would tell me about this framework called WebObjects and how great it 
 was. When I started at mDT, he got me going with WO with a bunch of books, 
 WWDC videos, and helpful guidance, and they set me on The Path. mDT has also 
 consistently made a substantial investment in the community, supporting 
 every bit of development that I've done in WOLips, Wonder, WOWODC, and the 
 build servers throughout my time here, and I applaud them for that.
 
 For the things you guys may directly care about:
 
 * WOLips - still working on it
 * Wonder - still working on it
 * Build Servers - mDT will continue to host the build servers
 * WOWODC - still attending, though not in an official Apple capacity
 
 To contact me in the future, my AIM/twitter are the same, but you can use my 
 msch...@pobox.com email address.
 
 
 ms
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net
 
 This email sent to ch...@global-village.net
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall 
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/varscsak%40smarthealth.com
 
 This email sent to varsc...@smarthealth.com
 
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall 
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: announcement

[Alan Ward]

Mike's not going to disappear you know.  

On Apr 22, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Pascal Robert wrote:

 1+, Apple should only hire anonymous WO devs, not the ones who are actually 
 helping the community :-)
 
 No! don't take everyone from the list ;-)
 
 d
 
 On 2010-04-22, at 7:45 AM, Alan Ward wrote:
 
 
 We're hiring.
 Alan
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
 
 If you know WO and want to work at Apple, just ask them.  I know they 
 don't have enough skilled WO developers.  I am not sure they could ever 
 have enough.
 
 
 Chuck
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Lon Varscsak wrote:
 
 Maybe Apple should just hire us all and be done with it. :P  We're a drop 
 in the bucket compared to all of their employees world wide.
 
 On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Chuck Hill ch...@global-village.net 
 wrote:
 Sure is getting lonely here, outside of The Mother Ship.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo
 
 Well, that is the end of an era.  I am sure that Bill and everyone at 
 mDimension will sorely miss you.  My thanks to Bill  Co for all the past 
 and future support of WebObjects (and Mike).  It has been really great 
 and it is good to know that they will remain active in WebObjects (albeit 
 at perhaps a slightly less frantic pace).
 
 And congratulations to Apple for sucking Mike The Unstoppable Code 
 Machine Schrag into it's black hole vortex of WO developers.  Did I 
 mention it is getting lonely out here?  I am sure good things will come 
 of this.  I hope we still see you on the lists now and then.
 
 Looking forward to seeing you again at WWDC / WOWODC.
 
 
 Chuck
 
 
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Mike Schrag wrote:
 
 Hey everyone ... I wanted to let you guys know that Apr 30 will be my 
 last day at mDimension. A few weeks ago, I accepted a position at Apple. 
 Not to worry, though -- supporting WOLips and Wonder will be part of my 
 responsibilities, so I'm far from disappearing. I think iTMS has done a 
 really good job demonstrating that they're committed to contributing, 
 with Entity Modeler app, eomodeldoc, and a substantial amount of work 
 recently with ERModernLook. The folks over there appreciate the value of 
 the WebObjects and Wonder communities, and I look forward to a lot of 
 exciting things in the future.
 
 As far as mDimension, we are parting on really good terms. They have been 
 a great company to work for over the past 5 years. For years before I 
 came on, Bill would tell me about this framework called WebObjects and 
 how great it was. When I started at mDT, he got me going with WO with a 
 bunch of books, WWDC videos, and helpful guidance, and they set me on The 
 Path. mDT has also consistently made a substantial investment in the 
 community, supporting every bit of development that I've done in WOLips, 
 Wonder, WOWODC, and the build servers throughout my time here, and I 
 applaud them for that.
 
 For the things you guys may directly care about:
 
 * WOLips - still working on it
 * Wonder - still working on it
 * Build Servers - mDT will continue to host the build servers
 * WOWODC - still attending, though not in an official Apple capacity
 
 To contact me in the future, my AIM/twitter are the same, but you can use 
 my msch...@pobox.com email address.
 
 
 ms
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net
 
 This email sent to ch...@global-village.net
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall 
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/varscsak%40smarthealth.com
 
 This email sent to varsc...@smarthealth.com
 
 
 -- 
 Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
 
 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall 
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award%40apple.com
 
 This email sent to aw...@apple.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list

Re: announcement

[Alan Ward]

Welcome aboard the mothership.

Alan

On Apr 21, 2010, at 2:36 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

 thanks everybody :)
 
 ms
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Ramsey Gurley wrote:
 
 Oh, and how rude of me... Congrats Mike! (^_^)
 
 Ramsey
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Ramsey Gurley wrote:
 
 When you asked that, the first thing that popped into my head was:
 STOP!
 He who would cross the Bridge of Death
 Must answer me
 These questions three
 Ere the other side he see.
 
 (^_^)
 
 Ramsey
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:05 PM, Kieran Kelleher wrote:
 
 You are right - No reason at all why only Mike should do it. What are your 
 thoughts on how someone who wants to help can qualify for commit access?
 
 Just asking :-)
 
 -Kieran
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 2:49 PM, Anjo Krank wrote:
 
 And for the most part, we do *not* keep other people from writing or 
 applying patches. There are ~40 committers for Wonder. There is no reason 
 why only Mike should do patches and stuff.
 
 Cheers, Anjo
 
 Am 21.04.2010 um 20:45 schrieb Mike Schrag:
 
 you can if you want, but i'll be fixing them anyway, including after Apr 
 30 ...
 
 ms
 
 On Apr 21, 2010, at 2:08 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
 
 Can we pay you a couple of bucks to fix the 128 remaining Jiras for 
 Wonder before April 30? :-)
 
 Hey everyone ... I wanted to let you guys know that Apr 30 will be my 
 last day at mDimension. A few weeks ago, I accepted a position at 
 Apple. Not to worry, though -- supporting WOLips and Wonder will be 
 part of my responsibilities, so I'm far from disappearing. I think 
 iTMS has done a really good job demonstrating that they're committed 
 to contributing, with Entity Modeler app, eomodeldoc, and a 
 substantial amount of work recently with ERModernLook. The folks over 
 there appreciate the value of the WebObjects and Wonder communities, 
 and I look forward to a lot of exciting things in the future.
 
 As far as mDimension, we are parting on really good terms. They have 
 been a great company to work for over the past 5 years. For years 
 before I came on, Bill would tell me about this framework called 
 WebObjects and how great it was. When I started at mDT, he got me 
 going with WO with a bunch of books, WWDC videos, and helpful 
 guidance, and they set me on The Path. mDT has also consistently made 
 a substantial investment in the community, supporting every bit of 
 development that I've done in WOLips, Wonder, WOWODC, and the build 
 servers throughout my time here, and I applaud them for that.
 
 For the things you guys may directly care about:
 
 * WOLips - still working on it
 * Wonder - still working on it
 * Build Servers - mDT will continue to host the build servers
 * WOWODC - still attending, though not in an official Apple capacity
 
 To contact me in the future, my AIM/twitter are the same, but you can 
 use my msch...@pobox.com email address.
 
 ms
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca
 
 This email sent to prob...@macti.ca
 
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/anjo%40krank.net
 
 This email sent to a...@krank.net
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kieran_lists%40mac.com
 
 This email sent to kieran_li...@mac.com
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ramsey%40xeotech.com
 
 This email sent to ram...@xeotech.com
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ramsey%40xeotech.com
 
 This email sent to ram...@xeotech.com
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com
 
 This email sent to msch...@pobox.com
 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin 

Re: [OT] Fact about Apple Store and WO

[Alan Ward]

On Feb 9, 2010, at 8:09 PM, Chuck Hill ch...@global-village.net wrote:

I am no sure that failing to acknowledge things like this is the  
best route.  Though I agree, speculation is not a good response.   
Maybe something like this?


Q. Why does the Apple Store go down every time they release a major  
product?


A. We have no idea, it is nothing to do with WebObjects.  Ask Apple.


I like that!

Alan




On Feb 9, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Ramsey Lee Gurley wrote:

+1 with David and Lachlan here.  Besides, listing speculation under  
the 'facts' section seems a bit of a stretch (^_^)  There's no need  
to defend WO or belittle anyone else.  Demonstrate why WO is the  
best solution available, and the rest will take care of itself.



On Feb 9, 2010, at 9:12 PM, David LeBer wrote:



On 2010-02-09, at 8:48 PM, Lachlan Deck wrote:

All interesting speculation - but why does this need mentioning  
on wocommunity at all?


As was mentioned in the recent thread, this kind of stuff is all  
too defensive / negative. WOCommunity should be sprouting the  
positives... what do you get with WO?


I can understand the desire to counter the webobjects is teh  
suck! tweets/posts/whatever, but I concur with Lachlan, I think  
this really just smacks of feeding the troll. The correct response  
is more like That comment doesn't warrant a response




On 10/02/2010, at 12:36 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

They probably also close it so when they bring it back up there  
are no old cached pages without the new product.  People would  
go insane if they went to the store and could not see the new  
iPad and their friend could.




On Feb 9, 2010, at 5:31 PM, Gaastra Dennis - WO Lists wrote:

Good point. Probably Apple does that on purpose to generate  
hype...

D/


On 2010-02-09, at 5:19 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:

As usual, when the Apple Store goes down, people on Twitter  
starts blaming WO because of store being down for minutes or  
sometimes hours. So I was thinking of adding a fact in the  
Facts section of wocommunity.org about this. Suggestion :


---
Q. Why does the Apple Store goes down every time they release  
a major product?


A. Since we don't work for Apple, we can't answer this  
question in details, but we don't see a reason why they have  
to put the store down even if they only added a new product.  
Funny thing is that the iTunes Store is also running  
WebObjects and does it goes down everything a new song is  
released? Nope. So our guess is that when a new major Apple  
product is released, maybe they close the store to do some  
maintenance or for marketing reasons. What we DO know is that  
it's not a limitation of WebObjects, and at WOWODC West 2009  
some engineers from the Apple Store team were there and they  
are very bright people, so we guess that they close the store  
for very valid reasons.

---

Adding a fact like this might help for people who search about  
this on Google or to sent as replies to some tweets :-)  
___

Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
d...@lists.apple.com)

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects_lists%40webappz.com

This email sent to webobjects_li...@webappz.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net

This email sent to ch...@global-village.net


--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve  
specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects







___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lachlan.deck%40gmail.com

This email sent to lachlan.d...@gmail.com


with regards,
--

Lachlan Deck



___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dleber_wodev%40codeferous.com

This email sent to dleber_wo...@codeferous.com


;david

--
David LeBer
Codeferous Software
'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing'
site:http://codeferous.com
blog:http://davidleber.net
profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber
twitter:http://twitter.com/rebeld
--

Re: 2009 surveys results

[Alan Ward]

...and you also don't know how many people within Apple would buy it  
if Chuck was to write another book.


Alan

On Oct 23, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:

BTW, the 400 devs count is from the total number of devs as told by  
the results of the org survey, good chance that the community is  
bigger, but for now the survey is the only way to have a count. I  
don't access to the number of subscribers to the lists or other  
counts that can give a better view of the community.


If we are really only have +- 400 developers outside of Apple, I  
don't think writing a book is profitable.


I'm kind of goading Chuck on to write a sequel to Practical  
WebObjects.  How about Absurdly Cool WebObjects?


On Oct 23, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote:


Hi!

On 2009/10/23, at 17:46, John  Kim Larson wrote:


without having the patience to read the manual,


Is there a manual?

Yours

Miguel Arroz


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca

This email sent to prob...@macti.ca



___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca

This email sent to prob...@macti.ca



___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award 
%40apple.com


This email sent to aw...@apple.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: WebObjects become opensource ?

[Alan Ward]

Speaking for myself here (and definitely not for my employer) I don't  
see Apple using it's patent portfolio to generate cash but rather as a  
counter defense against trolls. I'm just saying...


Alan


On Sep 15, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Q qdo...@gmail.com wrote:



On 16/09/2009, at 1:09 AM, André Mitra wrote:


you don't have Apple stock?


Software patents are just evil. I recently investigated the  
possibility of writing something for the iphone but the patent  
indemnity cost for one of the key technology components it required  
was prohibitively expensive.


If used to defend against competition of a real shipping product I  
can see the value in software patents. But when they are used purely  
as a cash generating portfolio with no real commercial interest,  
that just isn't right.



On 15-Sep-09, at 10:52 AM, Anjo Krank wrote:


Death to software patents (and their holders!)

Cheers, Anjo



Am 15.09.2009 um 15:57 schrieb Mike Schrag:


apple has patents on many aspects of WebObjects that are valuable

On Sep 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Mike Nowak wrote:

I just don't understand why an enterprise level technology like  
WebObjects is a state secret. I can understand why consumer  
products need a level of secrecy to build excitement and not to  
cannibalize sales but WebObjects?


On Sep 13, 2009, at 2:45 PM, David LeBer wrote:


Mike,

Not to be harsh, but you are not going to get that. Apple is  
not going to make any kind of public statement about WebObjects  
NOT being deprecated.


If Apple had depreciated WO they would have issued a statement  
to that effect. They haven't.


--
Mike Nowak
Center for Health Communications Research
The University of Michigan
http://chcr.umich.edu

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40mdimension.com

This email sent to msch...@mdimension.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/anjo%40krank.net

This email sent to a...@krank.net


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net

This email sent to an...@geometria.net


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/qdolan%40gmail.com

This email sent to qdo...@gmail.com




--
Seeya...Q

Quinton Dolan - qdo...@gmail.com
Gold Coast, QLD, Australia (GMT+10)




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award 
%40apple.com


This email sent to aw...@apple.com

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Large to-many relationships and caching Best Practise

[Alan Ward]

I usually cache it in the EO itself but I also add a refreshCaches()  
method that I call when
something modifies the object graph in such a way that the cached  
relationships may be
out of date.  The refreshCaches method simply nulls out the private  
NSArray.  The accessor

then checks for null and only fetches if necessary.

Alan

On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:32 AM, Michael Halliday wrote:


Hi List,

Let's say you have in your model:

Customer -- Transactions

Since a customer could have 1000's or 1's transactions ...  
obviously you wouldn't want to have transactions as a class property  
on the Customer EO for performance reasons.  Normally you would  
never want to get at ALL the transactions for a customer at once,  
but you might want to get Open transactions or Flagged  
transactions.  So, for example you could have a method on the  
Customer EO that just fetches the Transaction with a qualifier as  
below:


public NSArrayTransaction openTransactions() {
	return Transaction.fetchTransactions(editingContext(),  
Transaction.CUSTOMER.eq(this).and(Transaction.STATUS.eq(Open)),  
null);

}

Now, this is all well and good ... but what's the best practice  
for caching this result?  You wouldn't want to bind this method up  
to a WORepetition for example!  I'd just be curious to see how other  
people are handling these situations.  Do you cache this stuff in  
the EO itself ... or do you just limit calls to such methods and  
cache the return value?  I'm basically describing the role of Core  
Data's fetched properties.


Cheers,
Michael

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award 
%40apple.com


This email sent to aw...@apple.com


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Thank you WebObjects + community

[Alan Ward]

On Jun 24, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jun 24, 2009, at 9:33 AM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jun 24, 2009, at 12:19 PM, Gustavo Adolfo Pizano wrote:


LOL!.


is it Chunk or Chuck ??.. no Im confused


It's Chunk!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HeS453AeJDU/SdpjDGDAzyI/AMs/enpgJUFocyE/s320/goonies-chunk-shuffle.jpg

Sheesh. how many times will people ask that? ;-)


Sob!

Chuck not Chunk not Truck and really not Chick


not Chick but maybe a little chic?

Alan







On Jun 24, 2009, at 6:15 PM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jun 24, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jun 24, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Your Friend The Atom wrote:




On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:33 AM, Gustavo Adolfo Pizano webobjectspic...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
[...] I will still be bothering you with my newbie  
questions! :P :P


Please do.  That way lurkers may feel more comfortable posting  
and also contribute (when there a questions they can actually  
answer).



I'd hate for anyone to feel ashamed or fearful of asking a  
question or providing an answer.  If you are just lurking,  
please start posting!  I know there are lots of you out there, I  
can hear you moving when it is quiet, but this list feels so  
small sometimes.


Noob questions are the BEST! That is the best way I can pay back  
in for all the incredible help that Chunk, Mike, Kieran, Guido,  
David (all of them), and so many others have given me.


Sometimes I wonder just how anyone makes money as a WO consultant  
when there is such an amazing free resource like the lists  
available. Oh wait, it's because we can do 3 times as much in  
half the time, not just because of the frameworks, but because of  
the community too!


Dave
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjectspicora%40gmail.com

This email sent to webobjectspic...@gmail.com






___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net

This email sent to ch...@global-village.net



--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award 
%40apple.com


This email sent to aw...@apple.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Meetup Friday in San Fran

[Alan Ward]

It's a walk for anyone who's not lazy :-)


On Jun 3, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:


By the map it looks like a taxi ride away.


On Jun 3, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Joe Little wrote:

Definitely 21st amendement. They can take an impromptu large party  
and have lots of microbrews and food to sample


On Jun 3, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Chuck Hill ch...@global-village.net  
wrote:



On Jun 3, 2009, at 11:41 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

On Jun 3, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

On Jun 3, 2009, at 11:31 AM, David LeBer wrote:

On 3-Jun-09, at 2:20 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

Anyone want to try to make plans to meet up Friday evening?   
Are there any plans?


I might be helping Pascal out if he needs it Friday afternoon.  
But I'm game otherwise.



I am the Whitcome too, so that sounds like a good starting  
point.  Apparently party supplies are available on the sidewalk  
nearby.  :-P


Maybe there's some ideas here:

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=317165182mt=8



www.thirstybear.com
www.21st-amendment.com
www.thechieftain.com

--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Come to WOWODC'09 in San Fran this June!
http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc09/

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jmlittle%40gmail.com

This email sent to jmlit...@gmail.com




--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Come to WOWODC'09 in San Fran this June!
http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc09/

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award 
%40apple.com


This email sent to aw...@apple.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: /wa/favicon.ico ?

[Alan Ward]

Mike,

are you calling us abnormal?  ;-)

Alan

p.s. I could go either way on this topic.  I think a rewrite rule is  
the easiest but others may not.  And if
you don't currently have any rewrite rules then it definitely adds a  
new deployment wrinkle.   I long for the
day when I once again deploy a WO app with only one external  
configuration dependency (a single rewrite rule)


On May 11, 2009, at 6:37 PM, Michael Schrag wrote:

I totally agree... Do what is easiest. I guarantee your app isn't  
slow because you're serving favicons from your app. If you're  
iTunes, yeah maybe so... If you're normal, you're worrying too much  
IMO.


Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Andrew Lindesaya...@lindesay.co.nz  
wrote:



Hello;


If you can do it outside the app, you probably should.


Whilst I agree that in this case, a re-write rule is most likely  
the best approach for high-volume traditional deployment (be  
interesting to see if this assumption holds with an NIO-architected  
servlet container such as Jetty) providing as many features like  
this outside of an application-server does lead to more complex  
deployment procedures and documentation.  For small and medium  
sized projects, providing some of these features in-application  
provides for smoother deployment with less procedures for the web  
server administrators to follow.


cheers.

___
Andrew Lindesay
www.lindesay.co.nz

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40mdimension.com

This email sent to msch...@mdimension.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award 
%40apple.com


This email sent to aw...@apple.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: opposite method to objectMatchingKeyAndValue

[Alan Ward]

Add a unique constraint to the database.  That is the only way this  
will work.
Your code below could return EOObjectNotAvailableException and then  
another instance
inserts the row before your insert.  The database is your friend  
here.  With the unique constraint

you don't need to fetch first, just do the insert and see if it throws.

Alan


On Feb 20, 2009, at 10:40 AM, Gustavo Pizano wrote:


Hello all.
Well I want to insert a EObject into the database,  I found that the  
objectMatchingKeyAndValue will return me the object with the given  
parameters, and if not found will  throw and  
EOObjectNotAvailableException.
Now,  I need to insert the new objects, but I need to be sure that  
they don't exist in the database,  the entity has a attribute called  
code, which is not the primary key,  so I was thinking in using the  
following.


try{
Product  p =  
(Product 
)EOUtilities 
.objectMatchingKeyAndValue 
(editingContext(),Product,Product.CODE_KEY, code);

}catch (EOObjectNotAvailableException e){


 //insert the new object into the EC, and save it

}

the problem i see, is that if the object in fact exists, I must  
alert the user that this particular product exist already, so Im  
feeling doing the things in the wrong way,  I was thinking in  
putting a throw exception before the catch and with that alert the  
user... but i dunno i feel kinda weird doing this...




Suggestions??


Thanks

Gus




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award 
%40apple.com


This email sent to aw...@apple.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: plist to xml conversion of lists

[Alan Ward]

I think you want something like

keydegree.list/key
array
  stringPHD/sring
  stringMS/sring
/array

On Jan 22, 2009, at 3:05 PM, Joe Little wrote:


Previously, I had Property entries like:

degree.list = (PHD, MS)

My newer projects have XML-style plist files. I understand the basic
key/string layout for single assignments, but I can't figure out what
is the right way to do multiple assignments. I presume that:

keydegree.list/key
string(PHD, MS)/string

is wrong on multiple levels. Does anyone have XML examples of array
assignments to a key?
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award 
%40apple.com


This email sent to aw...@apple.com


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: Cappuccino

[Alan Ward]

On Sep 5, 2008, at 4:19 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Sep 5, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Florijan Stamenkovic wrote:

Uhm, I've taken a peek at the API. Seems to have some interesting  
stuff in there. Very AppKit like. I wonder what Apple would have  
to say about that, legally. Still, 117 classes to cover everything  
from basic raw type encapsulation to high level GUI management???  
Sounds weak and I have doubts about how extendable the low level  
API is, and how easy it would be to integrate custom stuff into  
it. Which is crucial for library development... Which is crucial  
for a language... Which is, well, just crucial.


I wondered about that when I saw:

280 North formed earlier this year when three friends from USC got  
together to realize their dream of working together to develop  
software. Francisco Tolmasky and Ross Boucher graduated from USC  
in 2006 and 2007 respectively


It takes a while to get a sense of good API design.


Ross is no slouch though.  He worked for Apple for a while and quit  
to go do 280 North.


Alan





Well, we'll see...


Yes.

Chuck





As for the replacement of JavaClient? Hm, I'd say it'd be more  
suited to a JSON-RPC style solution. Dave has a point in pointing  
out EOF libraries on the client. I would not count on Apple  
implementing those in Cappuccino...


F

On Sep 05, 2008, at 16:04, Guido Neitzer wrote:


On 05.09.08 13:43, Chuck Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


That is fine for document centric apps.  My uneducated, uninformed
guess is that using this to replace JavaClient would be a lot of
work.  It might be interesting to try.


I know. I guess, you can provide some sort of JSON data source  
and use that
in the way you had to when there was no CoreData - populate  
arrays and so

on.

Yeah, there should be something for that. Might be coming pretty  
soon ...


The framework itself looks really cool.

cug


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/flor385% 
40mac.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Use of finalize methods in WO

[Alan Ward]

On Aug 21, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Nilton Lessa wrote:



On 21/08/2008, at 12:06, Alex Horovitz wrote:



On Aug 21, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Nilton Lessa wrote:

:-) In this report  there are pearls like : Webobjects is a  
framework in disuse. ...sigh



In disguise??? Back when I was at NeXT we called it the WebObjects  
Framework. Not really much of a disguise if you have it in the f'n  
name.


Maybe I hadn't choosen the right word to translate their spetacular  
analysis: Webobjects is a framework not being used anymore.   And  
this conclusion  comes from a large technology consulting company.


We use it quite extensively at Apple ;-)

Alan







Oh well...

Alex

Alexander J. Horovitz
Chief Technology Officer
The Brookeside Group, Inc.
524 Main Street, Acton MA 01720
978.266.9876   ext. 225
978.808.0808 (c)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.brookeside.com

The Brookeside Group, Inc. - The world's leading authority on  
measuring and improving customer, partner and employee loyalty.







 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: timestamp mysql oddity

[Alan Ward]

Looks to me like those dates are 20,000 years apart though, not just  
1 hour ;-)


Alan

On Aug 16, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Johann Werner wrote:


Hi Gino,

this timeshift happens if you have different time zone settings for  
your app and the database. It is commonly suggested to use GMT for  
both and convert the timestamp to the correct time zone when  
displaying it on a page to a user.


jw

Am 16.08.2008 um 18:30 schrieb Gino Pacitti:


Hi All

Can anyone shed any light on why a timestamp:

2009-08-22 23:59:59 Etc/GMT

becomes

22009-08-23 00:59:59 in the database

When it is saved?

Seems like an hour is added by the database to a formatted  
NSTimestamp..


I have Mysql 4.1.22 and WO 5.3.3

Thanks in advance...

Gino
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/werner% 
40isd.uni-stuttgart.de


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: timestamp mysql oddity

[Alan Ward]

Sounds to me like exactly what Johann described.  BST is not really  
relevant (aside from potentially
making the difference 2 hours [or 0 hours] for a couple of weeks a  
year), but what is relevant is that

you get the timezones to match between app server and database.

Alan

On Aug 16, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Gino Pacitti wrote:


But is this a BST thing and will it change with the clocks move back?


On 16 Aug 2008, at 17:48, Alan Ward wrote:



Looks to me like those dates are 20,000 years apart though, not  
just 1 hour ;-)


Alan

On Aug 16, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Johann Werner wrote:


Hi Gino,

this timeshift happens if you have different time zone settings  
for your app and the database. It is commonly suggested to use  
GMT for both and convert the timestamp to the correct time zone  
when displaying it on a page to a user.


jw

Am 16.08.2008 um 18:30 schrieb Gino Pacitti:


Hi All

Can anyone shed any light on why a timestamp:

2009-08-22 23:59:59 Etc/GMT

becomes

22009-08-23 00:59:59 in the database

When it is saved?

Seems like an hour is added by the database to a formatted  
NSTimestamp..


I have Mysql 4.1.22 and WO 5.3.3

Thanks in advance...

Gino
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/werner% 
40isd.uni-stuttgart.de


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




-
Gino L. Pacitti   Base Enterprise UK
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone:  sales: 0845 094 9784
mob: 07980 851 953

Aol: kris121
Msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: ginkris
Mac.com: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.base-enterprise.co.uk

mail: Base Enterprise
PO BOX 674
East Grinstead
West Sussex
RH19 3ZG

Base Enterprise LTD
Company Number 04339224
Registered in England  Wales

Registered Member of the UK Web Design Association.
Accredited by Business Link and a member of the FSB.

Web Design, coding and information architect
Web Objects and Database Developer
HTML, XML, Javascript and WAP technologies.
-

This email and any attachments is confidential and may be legally
privileged and protected from disclosure. It is intended solely for
the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and
others authorized to receive it.

If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail of any parts of
it please telephone +44 845 094 9784 immediately upon receipt
or contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

No other person is authorized to copy, forward or disclose,
distribute or retain this e-mail in any form.



___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: sequential numbering across more instances

[Alan Ward]

On Aug 15, 2008, at 6:24 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Aug 15, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

Sometimes the app is not the right level for solving the  
problem.  I do try to avoid things like this, but sometimes they  
are the best solution.
Why would you choose this route rather than selecting from your  
db's sequence generator from WO (assuming your db has sequences)?   
I mean, if you're doing db-specific things anyway?


I think the goal is to avoid gaps in the sequence.  Gappy solutions  
are a dime a dozen.  ;-)   That is more easily done at the end of a  
transaction at the database level.  I _think_ an After Insert  
trigger should avoid sequence gaps.


That would do it, yes.  Have EOF insert the record with a null value  
in the column and use a trigger (after insert) to assign the value  
from a sequence.
Be aware though that you should not lock on that column or else  
you'll run into optimistic locking failures if you subsequently  
update any other

column before refetching the (now modified) EO.

Alan



Chuck


--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: D2W and Qualifying Relationships

[Alan Ward]

On Jul 8, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2008, at 1:07 PM, David Avendasora wrote:


restrictedChoiceKey

Hmmm

Ahg! WOnder. Figures. :)

I was hopping for a WO-only solution.

Thanks for the quick reply though!


I thought The First Rule of D2W was D2W without Wonder is a  
deadlock waiting to happen


I thought it was more like it's a deadlock that already happened ;-)

Alan



Chuck



On Jul 8, 2008, at 3:45 PM, Guido Neitzer wrote:

If you have them on the same page, you need to do an Ajax call to  
set the manufacturingLine and than limit the other one with the  
restrictedChoiceKey in the rules. Never tried that though.


cug

On 08.07.2008, at 12:55, David Avendasora wrote:


I have two to-one relationships on my Routing entity:

Routing - ManufacturingLine
Routing - WorkCenter

ManufacturingLine and WorkCenter are also related with a many-to- 
many:


ManufacturingLine - WorkCenter

On the form for Routing, I'd like to restrict the possible  
options on the WorkCenter popup to only the ones that are also  
related to the Routing's selected ManufacturingLine.


Is there a way to do that by writing a rule in the  d2w.d2wmodel  
file, or otherwise qualify the NSArray that populates the popup?  
I've been digging through the D2W API and I can't seem to figure  
it out.


I think it was Guido that mentioned doing this during a between- 
session conversation at WOWODC this year, I just can't remember.


Dave
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 
40event-s.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


--
http://www.event-s.net





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: new EOObjectStoreCoordinator and closing database connection afterwards

[Alan Ward]

I missed the beginning of the thread but closing all your connections  
is not that difficult...


for (Enumeration stores =  
EOObjectStoreCoordinator.defaultCoordinator().cooperatingObjectStores 
().objectEnumerator(); e.hasMoreElements();) {
for (Enumeration channels = ((EODatabaseContext)  
stores.nextElement()).adaptorContext().channels().objectEnumerator();  
channels.hasMoreElements();) {
EOAdaptorChannel channel = (EOAdaptorChannel)  
channels.nextElement();

if (channel.isOpen()) {
channel.closeChannel();
}
}
}

Alan

On Jul 1, 2008, at 11:06 PM, Lon Varscsak wrote:

I should add that I'm using WOnder, however, so there may be other  
trickery involved that I didn't notice. :)


Lon

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Lon Varscsak  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is the connection I assumed wasn't closing, but Klaus would  
have to chime in.  I'm using:


new ERXEC(new ERXObjectStoreCoordinator(true));

in one specific instance and calling dispose() when I'm done (on  
the OSC) seems to do the trick (closes both connections properly).


I pointed Klause to ERXEOAccessUtilities.closeDatabaseConnections  
which is what I believe does the trickery (called from OSC's  
dispose method).


But maybe I misunderstood the problem. :)

Lon

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Mike Schrag  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I would look at Wonder source and see what trickery is being  
used to implement this fix.


 I don't think we close ... The OSC pool in Wonder is designed  
to be round-robin'ed across requests and never needs to close.


 I recall a discussion from a while ago that actually getting EOF  
to close the connection is difficult / impossible.  I have never  
needed to (see Mike's comment above), so I have never looked into it.


 Maybe you're referring to the jdbc2Info connection?  It's not  
impossible, but it is very tricky.  I don't THINK this is his  
problem here, though.


 ms

 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
 http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/varscsak% 
40smarthealth.com


 This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: WO 5.4 form value encoding problem

[Alan Ward]

On Jun 24, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Kenny Leung wrote:

I've figured it out - you have to stick in a meta tag to force the  
browser to use UTF-8. Something like.


html
head
meta charset=UTF-8/meta
/head
body
Some stuff...
/body
/html



No, that tells the browser what encoding the page is in.  Forms have  
an accept-encoding tag which

tells the browser how to encode the user input that it's going to post.


Note that I simply cannot get it to work with ISO8859_1 encoding.


That's probably because you're not doing it right ;-)

Alan



-Kenny


On Jun 23, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Kenny Leung wrote:


Hi All.

I've bumped into an incompatibility between WebObjects 5.3 and  
5.4. In 5.3, I could submit a form value with non-ASCII  
characters, and their encoding would be correctly interpreted. In  
5.4, the encoding is misinterpreted.


I printed out the actual request contents, and, for instance e- 
acute is sent as %E9, which as far as I know is correct ISO8859  
encoding. I read in the release notes that WO 5.4 now defaults to  
UTF8 encoding, so I tried to change the request's  
defaultFormValueEncoding to ISO8859_1. Then it got interpreted as  
a literal %E9!


Can anybody shed some light on this? I have searched the lists and  
the Google, and have come up empty.


Thanks!

-Kenny

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kenny_leung% 
40pobox.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Design Question: Hiding inherited attributes?

[Alan Ward]

EOEntity is your friend

Alan

On Jun 18, 2008, at 1:43 PM, James Cicenia wrote:


OK -

Is there a way I can get a list of every method and attribute?

Thanks
James

On Jun 18, 2008, at 2:31 PM, Robert Walker wrote:

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your question, but couldn't you just  
make another Entity on the same table that only included the  
columns you're interested in?


On Jun 18, 2008, at 3:14 PM, James Cicenia wrote:


Hello -

I would like to somehow make an object that subclasses an EO but  
only the

subclass's attributes are visible. Is this possible?

Thanks
James Cicenia
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ 
robert.walker%40bennettig.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Robert Walker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/james% 
40jimijon.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Apple and ... enterprise support?

[Alan Ward]

Ray,

Timing is everything.  Clearly now is the time.

Alan

On Jun 12, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Ray Kiddy wrote:



It's killing me. One of my favorite jokes for when people ask me  
(since I was in the WebObjects group at Apple for a bunch of years)  
why Apple is so amazingly dense about WebObjects is this. Steve  
Jobs will talk about the enterprise when Pixar is doing a Star Trek  
movie.


But he is ruining my joke! I just saw an excerpt of some of the  
keynote at WWDC and it looks as though the words enterprise  
support made it up onto the screen. How the heck did that happen?  
Or perhaps this version of enterprise support is really something  
that has no correspondence to the meaning of those words as spoken  
on this planet.


Does anyone know what this means? Apple has a unit with a business  
model that allows it to do some kind of enterprise support? This is  
just not fitting into my head. Please, if anyone has specifics,  
speak up.


mahalo - ray

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: The Mobile me web apps

[Alan Ward]

On Jun 11, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Ricardo Parada wrote:



Ok, most of us have probably seen the mobile me web apps.  They are  
web 2.0 apps that use javascript and ajax.  There's a lot of good  
stuff in those apps.  So much good stuff there.  I wished Apple  
made some of that stuff available to us (developers) in some  
form.  :-)


I'm guessing that the back end for those apps is using WebObjects.   
I can see that in the current webmail app for .mac and I assume  
that's also going to be the case for the mobile me web apps.   And  
we should probably point people to all these great applications  
when they have doubts about WebObjects.


Anyways, I'm just so curious if Apple is using the wonderful Ajax  
frameworks shown at WOWODC or if they are using their own stuff.


That's the kind of question that's likely to remain unanswered.

Alan




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: The Mobile me web apps

[Alan Ward]

On Jun 11, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

But I don't like reinventing the wheel.  So I could adopt the  
ERExtensions framework which I believe is all that's needed for  
integrating Ajax into WebObjects.  Or I could continue developing  
my framework.  Or I could wait to see what Apple is doing.
Waiting to see what Apple is doing realistically means probably  
waiting a year, and possibly finding out at the end that they  
aren't addressing it.  So I would say that you should solve your  
problems and if Apple comes out with something, reevaluate at that  
point.  As far as adopting ERX, I don't know enough about what your  
framework does to give suggestions.  The main point I would ask  
about is how you are addressing the backtrack cache handling, as  
this is one of the primary features of the Wonder Ajax.framework  
(which was adopted in a slightly older, but similar, form in 5.4).   
We do quite a bit of painful munging magic in the app backtrack  
cache handling to make Ajax.framework work, so you might want to  
compare how you're handling these problems with your own solution  
(which I'd be interested to hear about if you have an alternate  
solution).  Wonder also obviously has quite a bit of users  
(including Apple for some internal apps),


Interesting use the term internal :-)

Alan


so you obviously benefit from community development on the  
framework.  Again, though, not knowing your framework, it's hard to  
give more specific pros/cons.


ms

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: WebObjects Nightly Builds and WOLips addition

[Alan Ward]

October 2003.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=43532

Alan


On Jun 10, 2008, at 11:45 AM, Simon McLean wrote:


Bloody hell! When did hell freeze over ?

Simon

On 10 Jun 2008, at 18:36, Mark Ritchie wrote:


Hi Everyone!

WebObjects Nightly Builds  are now available on the ADC site.
WOLips has been extended to be able to build WOF apps against the  
nightly builds.


We have it on good authority that this can be openly discussed.

Welcome to the new world and thanks to Pierre Frisch for making  
this happen!


Regards!
Mark
__
Mark Ritchie
Cocoa and WebObjects Developer
Diamond Lake Consulting Inc.
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/simon_mclean% 
40mac.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: WebObjects Community Gathering

[Alan Ward]

On Jun 3, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jun 3, 2008, at 9:27 AM, Mr. Pierre Frisch wrote:


To all,

This year Apple is happy to host, like last year, a WebObjects  
Community Gathering during WWDC. This will be on Thursday June 12  
from 4:30 to 6:30 pm in the The Science and Medicine Connection  
room.


I hope to see you all there. Have a good conference.


Thanks Pierre!  Do you have any idea what we will have access to in  
terms of displays or projection equipment?


and more importantly beer ;-)

Alan



Thanks,
Chuck


--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: This is very strange for me - need help

[Alan Ward]

My guess is that you are doing the insert twice in the same  
transaction.  The transaction is then rolled back and consequently you
can manually insert the same values with no violation of the  
uniqueness constraint.  Turn on EOAdaptorDebugEnabled and

watch the SQL that's generated to get a better idea of what's going on.

Alan

On May 30, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Amedeo Mantica wrote:


I got this error:


[2008-5-30 18:31:43 CEST] WorkerThread0  
com.webobjects.eoaccess.EOGeneralAdaptorException:  
EvaluateExpression failed:  
com.webobjects.jdbcadaptor.OpenBasePlugIn$OpenBaseExpression:  
INSERT INTO INDBLocalizedString(it, de, id, en) VALUES  
(?, ?, ?, ?) withBindings: 1:write ITghgf(it), 2:write DE(de),  
3:128(id), 4:write EN(en):
Next exception:SQL State:42000 -- error code: 0 -- msg: ERROR -  
Value for column 'id' is not unique.
SQL: INSERT INTO INDBLocalizedString(it, de, id, en) VALUES ('write  
ITghgf', 'write DE', 128, 'write EN')



I checked and rechecked, the value for column ID is UNIQUE!!!
also typing the SQL directly into database works!

Any suggestion?!!
Thanks
Amedeo
 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

IMHO you should never flatten a many-to-many (especially across models).

Alan

On May 30, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Gennady Kushnir wrote:


Flattening relationshops (consequently - many-to-many relations) does
not work across database (consequently - EOModel) boundaries
Unfortunately.
It is mentioned in Using EOModeler manual. So you have to traverse
relationships programmatically I assume.

Gennady

2008/5/29 Juergen Lorenz Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Hi,

I'm trying to model a relationship across two EOF Models:

Model FirstModel (database name firstmodel)
Entity A

Model B (database name secondmodel)
Entity B

Now I have an n:m relationship between the two entities. So in Model
FirstModel,
I create join tables AB, which has relationships pointing to B.

A - AB - B

When I try to add or delete objects, the resulting SQL has the  
wrong table

name.
Instead of looking to firstmodel.AB, it looks for secondmodel.AB  
instead!

I'm using Project Wonder, WebObjects 5.3 and MySQL.

Anyone got an idea what that might be?

Cheers,
J.L.Simon
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/genkush% 
40rujel.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

I'm actually somewhat opposed to flattening in any situation but when  
it comes to M-to-M
my justification is more performance related than anything else.  I  
actually omit joins from
the model in certain situations to avoid unwanted fetches and  
flattening is more of a recipe
for disaster than a simple join is.If you're working with a small  
data set then none of this is
a big deal but once you get up into 10's of millions of rows in any  
given table then you have
to be extremely careful with the modeling in order to avoid  
unexpected killer fetches.


You know what I work on and I think our challenges are somewhat  
atypical.  I do believe though
that they have some value as general principals because however small  
your data set is

to begin with, it likely will grow over time.

Alan

On May 30, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

IMHO you should never flatten a many-to-many (especially across  
models).
So this is interesting ... I held this same belief for years until  
about 6 months ago when Chuck convinced me that I was missing  
out :)  I had some silly misunderstanding of EOF caching with  
respect to flattened relationships that Chuck proved was wrong.   
I've since been pretty happy with them (though admittedly I've  
never crossed model boundaries).  I'm curious what you're reasoning  
for not flattening is?  Definitely it will fail across databases  
boundaries (which totally makes sense), but it's not immediately  
obvious that (or rather why) it would fail across model boundaries  
onto the same database (assuming you have the EXACT same connection  
dictionary between the two).


ms

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

On May 30, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On May 30, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

IMHO you should never flatten a many-to-many (especially across  
models).
So this is interesting ... I held this same belief for years until  
about 6 months ago when Chuck convinced me that I was missing  
out :)  I had some silly misunderstanding of EOF caching with  
respect to flattened relationships that Chuck proved was wrong.   
I've since been pretty happy with them (though admittedly I've  
never crossed model boundaries).  I'm curious what you're  
reasoning for not flattening is?  Definitely it will fail across  
databases boundaries (which totally makes sense), but it's not  
immediately obvious that (or rather why) it would fail across  
model boundaries onto the same database (assuming you have the  
EXACT same connection dictionary between the two).



I am curious too.  I'd rather shoot myself than not flatten to many  
relationships.  I'd almost rather use J2EE.  Like Mike says, across  
databases is a problem.  Across models is not if you are sensible  
enough to ensure consistent connection dictionaries when they load  
(which I think is safe to assume here).


Like I was saying to Mike, it's simply a guard against performance  
issues.  It's like omitting inverse relationships
when you know that it would be suicide if anyone tried to traverse  
(or inadvertently tripped) them.
e.g. transaction - user_agent is a fine relationship to model but  
would you even dream of modeling the inverse relationship?

Maybe you would if you only made one sale a week.

Alan




Chuck

--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

I'm sure Chuck will correct me if I'm wrong but my recollection is  
that a flattened to-many will always trip on an

insert or update.

Alan

On May 30, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Guido Neitzer wrote:


On 30.05.2008, at 14:31, Alan Ward wrote:

I actually omit joins from the model in certain situations to  
avoid unwanted fetches and flattening is more of a recipe for  
disaster than a simple join is.



But it actually doesn't matter how big your datasets are. The  
interesting question is how big the joins are. I have a database  
here with some ten million entries in it and the biggest to-many is  
a couple of hundred objects - this runs on a dual G4 with a small  
disk array and never gave me any problems.


And I rather have the development speed of flattened relationships  
and working to-many relationships and deal with the consequences  
when I have to. Yes, I had to turn of some back-relationships over  
time and do not model some of the inverse relationships at all,  
because I know they will cause problems, but as an overall rule?  
No, definitely not.


cug

--
http://www.event-s.net



___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

On May 30, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

I'm sure Chuck will correct me if I'm wrong but my recollection  
is that a flattened to-many will always trip on an insert or  
update.


Hmm. What you mean by trip on?
Pretty sure Alan is saying that updating or inserting an EO with  
a flattened to-many fires the fault of the to-many.  This would  
be a really bad bug if it's true.  Writing a test case now ...
This appears to be OK for the test I'm doing in 5.3 with Wonder.   
Maybe this was a bug in an older version of WO/EOF or maybe Wonder  
fixes this and I just never knew?


I have Person and Company and a many-to-many join between them.  I  
added 100 of each and made each person related to each of the 100  
companies.  I restarted to get a fresh snapshot cache, and if i  
fetch a person, change the person's name and resave, I get the  
single query to fetch the EO and a single query to perform the  
update and no fetches against Company.
Chuck is suggesting to me in AIM that maybe Alan meant that if you  
add or update the flattened to many relationship, it will fire a  
fault, which is definitely true.  But that would be the same if it  
was just a one-to-many, or a non-flattened relationship.  I'm  
wondering if maybe Alan's referring to some behavior in 5.2 where  
maybe his concern is true but maybe has since been fixed?


No, I meant an insert or update that didn't modify the relationship.   
It sounds like your test shows my recollection to be wrong
with recent WO versions.  I'm pretty sure it was true at some point  
in the past though.


Alan



ms
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

On May 30, 2008, at 4:14 PM, Alan Ward wrote:



On May 30, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

I'm sure Chuck will correct me if I'm wrong but my  
recollection is that a flattened to-many will always trip on  
an insert or update.


Hmm. What you mean by trip on?
Pretty sure Alan is saying that updating or inserting an EO with  
a flattened to-many fires the fault of the to-many.  This would  
be a really bad bug if it's true.  Writing a test case now ...
This appears to be OK for the test I'm doing in 5.3 with Wonder.   
Maybe this was a bug in an older version of WO/EOF or maybe  
Wonder fixes this and I just never knew?


I have Person and Company and a many-to-many join between them.   
I added 100 of each and made each person related to each of the  
100 companies.  I restarted to get a fresh snapshot cache, and if  
i fetch a person, change the person's name and resave, I get the  
single query to fetch the EO and a single query to perform the  
update and no fetches against Company.
Chuck is suggesting to me in AIM that maybe Alan meant that if you  
add or update the flattened to many relationship, it will fire a  
fault, which is definitely true.  But that would be the same if it  
was just a one-to-many, or a non-flattened relationship.  I'm  
wondering if maybe Alan's referring to some behavior in 5.2 where  
maybe his concern is true but maybe has since been fixed?


No, I meant an insert or update that didn't modify the  
relationship.  It sounds like your test shows my recollection to be  
wrong
with recent WO versions.  I'm pretty sure it was true at some point  
in the past though.


Hang on a minute what was flattened in your model?

Alan



Alan



ms
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

OK, so it sounds like the update is fine but how many SQL statements  
occur when you try to insert a new Person?


Alan

On May 30, 2008, at 4:28 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

No, I meant an insert or update that didn't modify the  
relationship.  It sounds like your test shows my recollection to  
be wrong
with recent WO versions.  I'm pretty sure it was true at some  
point in the past though.


Hang on a minute what was flattened in your model?

Company
id
name
 people (flattened)

Person
id
name
 companies  (flattened)

(CompanyPerson)
companyID
personID

ms

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

On May 30, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

OK, so it sounds like the update is fine but how many SQL  
statements occur when you try to insert a new Person?
I would expect an insert to fire the faults in this case, but that  
should be the same for a many-to-many with a join entity as long as  
you are calling addObjectToBothSideBlah on both person and company  
of the join (which you should be to keep them consistent).


So, my memory is still not 100% clear on this one but I think we're  
honing in on why I don't flatten
If the relationship is not flattened then I have the option of not  
using addObjectToBothSides if I know
I am doing an insert and then discarding the EO (i.e. I don't care  
about keeping my object graph
consistent right now). It means I can avoid faulting in a whole slew  
of stuff when I know I don't need it.


Alan

As it turns out i accidentally deleted my ManyToMany test-case app  
just now and I have to recreate it.  But I definitely expect it to  
fire the faults here.


ms

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Relationship across model boundaries failing

[Alan Ward]

On May 30, 2008, at 5:19 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

So, my memory is still not 100% clear on this one but I think  
we're honing in on why I don't flatten
If the relationship is not flattened then I have the option of not  
using addObjectToBothSides if I know
I am doing an insert and then discarding the EO (i.e. I don't care  
about keeping my object graph
consistent right now). It means I can avoid faulting in a whole  
slew of stuff when I know I don't need it.
This seems right to me, yeah.  That said, my standard approach is  
that if the relationship is too big to fault, then I don't model it.


Same here.

It's VERY rare that I have the relationship modeled but don't want  
the graph in sync.


We actually do it a lot.  If you think about our system there are  
some apps that spend 99% of their time
inserting data (think of when something is sold) and there are others  
that spend 99% of their time reading
that same data (think of when something is invoiced).  Those first  
class of apps are not going to traverse
the object graph after the insert and need to be very fast.  The  
other class of apps will fetch and then
traverse the object graph and are not anywhere near as performance  
sensitive.


This same topic came up in the discussions of automatic inverse  
relationship updating in Wonder, actually.


You can probably guess how I feel about that ;-)  I never model  
inverse relationships until I need them

(and even then I sometimes don't)

Alan



ms
 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: securing communications between web server and WO instances

[Alan Ward]

On May 14, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Patrick Robinson wrote:


I've got a question that I can't recall ever being addressed here.

Using https gets you encrypted/secure communication between your  
users' browsers and your web server.  But what do you all typically  
do to secure communications between your web server and your WO app  
instances, especially when those instances are running on separate  
hardware?  Do you have a private network behind your web server  
(i.e. between your web server and your WO servers)?


Most definitely, yes.  Your webserver should be the only machine  
visible to the outside.  Everything else

should be behind a firewall and not reachable at all from the outside.

Alan



--
Patrick Robinson
AHNR Info Technology, Virginia Tech
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: securing communications between web server and WO instances

[Alan Ward]

On May 14, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On May 14, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Alan Ward wrote:



On May 14, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Patrick Robinson wrote:


I've got a question that I can't recall ever being addressed here.

Using https gets you encrypted/secure communication between your  
users' browsers and your web server.  But what do you all  
typically do to secure communications between your web server and  
your WO app instances, especially when those instances are  
running on separate hardware?  Do you have a private network  
behind your web server (i.e. between your web server and your WO  
servers)?


Most definitely, yes.  Your webserver should be the only machine  
visible to the outside.  Everything else
should be behind a firewall and not reachable at all from the  
outside.


Amen.  Ports 80 and 443 are the only things open.  And 22 if you  
want ssh access.


You like to live dangerously huh Chuck?

:-)

Alan




Chuck

--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

[Alan Ward]

On May 14, 2008, at 3:52 PM, David LeBer wrote:



On 14-May-08, at 5:44 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On May 14, 2008, at 2:39 PM, Ken Anderson wrote:

And if you were still holding out to go to WOWODC and WWDC, WWDC  
is sold out!  Never thought I'd hear that...


iPhone mania!


Can't attend WWDC? WOWODC is still taking registrations. Two sweet  
little days of tech overload. A nice light snack!


... and I'm sure beer will be involved at some point too... yup  
certain in fact.


Count me in when the beer starts flowing.

Alan




On May 14, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On May 14, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Daniel Mejia wrote:


Hi,

We are in a very hard time deploying an application for a  
customer and I can't go to the WOWODC, but I would like to know  
if you have any plans to sell a DVD with the sessions?


Yes, we will be selling the recordings (assuming they work this  
year).


Chuck

On May 12, 2008, at 5:45 PM, webobjects-dev- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



From: Chuck Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: May 12, 2008 4:43:53 PM GMT-05:00
To: WebObjects Dev Apple webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
Subject: Not going to WOWODC this year?


Hi,

Not coming to WOWODC (http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc08/)  
this year?   Why is that?  We had over 80 people at last  
year's WOWODC, but only 64 have registered so far for this  
year's conference.  There seemed to be a lot of interest at  
last year's conference in doing it again and even more in  
having a 2 day conference this year.  For people who attended  
last year who aren't attending this year, can you let us know  
why?  Private replies are fine.


If you have not registered, there is still time!  On-line  
registration will be open until May 22nd:
https://robot.boxofficetickets.com/800-494-TIXS/WebObjects/ 
BOTx2005.woa/wa/inspectSubprogram?id=219141passKey=5aa3d5d452


You can also register at the door, but we can't guarantee  
there will be food for you.   Everyone will be happier if you  
register in advance.


This is going to be a great two days of looking at the future  
of WebObjects and boosting your skills (http:// 
www.wocommunity.org/wowodc08/schedule.html) in addition to  
getting to meet and talk with other WebObjects professionals.   
WWDC might be a waste of time, but these two days will not!



Thank you,
Chuck


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve  
specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kenlists% 
40anderhome.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]





--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve  
specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dleber% 
40codeferous.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


;david

--
David LeBer
Codeferous Software
'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing'
site:   http://codeferous.com
blog: http://davidleber.net
profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber
--
Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group:
http://tacow.org


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Best Server Environment for Large WebObjects Applications

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 29, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Alexander Spohr wrote:



Am 29.04.2008 um 04:53 schrieb Don Lindsay:

I agree.  Not really sure who they are selling these to.  I work  
with Government and Fortune 500 companies they and I know I could  
not get 20k*2=40K past them, we could purchase a hell of a server  
with that money.



Question: What does the iTunes Store use?


I can neither confirm nor deny

:-)

Alan



atze

(Don’t throw rocks at me for asking something guaranteed to be  
under ND)


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: WOLips Bindings

[Alan Ward]

Just be careful and make sure you don't pick up a can of that LSD  
paint as that's often right next to the LCD stuff.


On Apr 30, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Don Lindsay wrote:

Or use the new LCD paint and paint a wall in your office and make  
it your monitor. :)  Sweeet!


Don
On Apr 30, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Amedeo Mantica wrote:


But I think I have to buy a larger monitor :-)
I'm gonna buying cinema 23 or may be apple comes out with new  
monitors :)


On 30/apr/08, at 18:11, Amedeo Mantica wrote:


Wow! Thanks

On 30/apr/08, at 17:55, Johann Werner wrote:


Hi Amedeo,

you must open the corresponding view. To do so go to Window- 
Show View-Other and the choose WOLips-Bindings (Experimental)  
from the list.


jw

Am 30.04.2008 um 17:29 schrieb Amedeo Mantica:


I'm watching:

http://wolips.blogspot.com/

and there are cool feaures...

I have the Latest Nightly, but iI don't see the Binding Tab in  
Eclipse, how to enable??

Regards
Amedeo
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/werner% 
40isd.uni-stuttgart.de


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]






___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pccdonl% 
40mac.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [slightly ot] Similarity Report

[Alan Ward]

take a look at Lucene.

Alan

On Apr 30, 2008, at 1:17 PM, Joshua Paul wrote:

I need to generate a report that gathers information on a set of  
objects (questions...as in Questions and Answers) and determines  
which, if any, are similar to each other. I'm certain this will  
involve 'stop words' and a level of indexing, but I'm wondering if  
anyone has done something similar, or is aware of a library/stored  
procedure/etc that might already exist or provide some insight.


TIA

--
Josh Paul
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

twitter: joshpaul
linkedin: joshpaul


NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it  
are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain  
legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of  
this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent  
responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient,  
you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,  
copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is  
strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error,  
please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message  
and please delete it from your computer.


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Best Server Environment for Large WebObjects Applications

[Alan Ward]

http://www.citrix.com/english/ps2/products/product.asp?contentID=21679

you don't need to run wotaskd if you run your apps behind one of  
these.  I'm not saying
you should get one just that it's an option that I* believe is  
better/faster/stronger than

Tomcat (which was your original question).

Alan

* my personal belief and not necessarily a statement representing any  
opinion of my employer


On Apr 27, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Don Lindsay wrote:


Hello;

Hmmm, I haven't heard of net scaler?

As far as wotaskd, isnt that only available on Macintosh OS X and  
not on other environments?


Don
On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Have you looked at a Netscaler?

Alan


On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:20 AM, Don Lindsay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello;

I have been using tomcat for years for all of my web  
applications.  I am just wondering if there is anything better/ 
faster/stronger out there for running WebObjects applications.


Most of the applications I write have  5000 users and are  
required to have an uptime of 99.8%.  The users of the  
applications use them to perform all of their day-to-day tasks.   
Performance is an foremost in my mind, as I maintain all of the  
applications and assist users with any issues they may encounter.


Thanks,

Don
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Best Server Environment for Large WebObjects Applications

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:


caching of static and dynamic content

Having been bitten by webperfcache doing that, I am curious if you  
have seen WO used on one of these?


I have.


I am curious as to how dynamic content caching works.


I haven't seen it used for caching, only for request routing and SSL.

Alan



Chuck


On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Alan Ward wrote:



http://www.citrix.com/english/ps2/products/product.asp? 
contentID=21679


you don't need to run wotaskd if you run your apps behind one of  
these.  I'm not saying
you should get one just that it's an option that I* believe is  
better/faster/stronger than

Tomcat (which was your original question).

Alan

* my personal belief and not necessarily a statement representing  
any opinion of my employer


On Apr 27, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Don Lindsay wrote:


Hello;

Hmmm, I haven't heard of net scaler?

As far as wotaskd, isnt that only available on Macintosh OS X and  
not on other environments?


Don
On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Have you looked at a Netscaler?

Alan


On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:20 AM, Don Lindsay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello;

I have been using tomcat for years for all of my web  
applications.  I am just wondering if there is anything better/ 
faster/stronger out there for running WebObjects applications.


Most of the applications I write have  5000 users and are  
required to have an uptime of 99.8%.  The users of the  
applications use them to perform all of their day-to-day  
tasks.  Performance is an foremost in my mind, as I maintain  
all of the applications and assist users with any issues they  
may encounter.


Thanks,

Don
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Best Server Environment for Large WebObjects Applications

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Alan Ward wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:


caching of static and dynamic content

Having been bitten by webperfcache doing that, I am curious if  
you have seen WO used on one of these?


I have.


I am curious as to how dynamic content caching works.


I haven't seen it used for caching, only for request routing and SSL.


One  more question: you said that you don't need to use wotaskd  
with these.  How does that work?


It can use various techniques for deciding when an app instance is  
down (or unresponsive)
and will cease routing requests to it.  You still need something to  
restart dead apps but

you can do that without wotaskd.

Alan




Chuck




On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Alan Ward wrote:



http://www.citrix.com/english/ps2/products/product.asp? 
contentID=21679


you don't need to run wotaskd if you run your apps behind one of  
these.  I'm not saying
you should get one just that it's an option that I* believe  
is better/faster/stronger than

Tomcat (which was your original question).

Alan

* my personal belief and not necessarily a statement  
representing any opinion of my employer


On Apr 27, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Don Lindsay wrote:


Hello;

Hmmm, I haven't heard of net scaler?

As far as wotaskd, isnt that only available on Macintosh OS X  
and not on other environments?


Don
On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Have you looked at a Netscaler?

Alan


On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:20 AM, Don Lindsay [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



Hello;

I have been using tomcat for years for all of my web  
applications.  I am just wondering if there is anything  
better/faster/stronger out there for running WebObjects  
applications.


Most of the applications I write have  5000 users and are  
required to have an uptime of 99.8%.  The users of the  
applications use them to perform all of their day-to-day  
tasks.  Performance is an foremost in my mind, as I maintain  
all of the applications and assist users with any issues they  
may encounter.


Thanks,

Don
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve  
specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]





--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Best Server Environment for Large WebObjects Applications

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:08 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Alan Ward wrote:

On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Alan Ward wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:


caching of static and dynamic content

Having been bitten by webperfcache doing that, I am curious if  
you have seen WO used on one of these?


I have.


I am curious as to how dynamic content caching works.


I haven't seen it used for caching, only for request routing and  
SSL.


One  more question: you said that you don't need to use wotaskd  
with these.  How does that work?


It can use various techniques for deciding when an app instance is  
down (or unresponsive)
and will cease routing requests to it.  You still need something  
to restart dead apps but

you can do that without wotaskd.


Forgive me, for I am slow.  And, yes, I have had a fair bit of  
coffee today.  :-)


I'm probably being overly cautious in what I divulge on a public  
list :-)


With  wotaskd, there is a session and instance identifier in either  
the URL or in cookies.  How does that process work with a NetScaler?


It can route based on cookies or instance numbers

Do you need portable sessions?  Does it only work for sessionless  
requests (direct actions and such)?


no, sessionful requests work too

Alan




Thanks
Chuck




On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Alan Ward wrote:



http://www.citrix.com/english/ps2/products/product.asp? 
contentID=21679


you don't need to run wotaskd if you run your apps behind one  
of these.  I'm not saying
you should get one just that it's an option that I*  
believe is better/faster/stronger than

Tomcat (which was your original question).

Alan

* my personal belief and not necessarily a statement  
representing any opinion of my employer


On Apr 27, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Don Lindsay wrote:


Hello;

Hmmm, I haven't heard of net scaler?

As far as wotaskd, isnt that only available on Macintosh OS X  
and not on other environments?


Don
On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Have you looked at a Netscaler?

Alan


On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:20 AM, Don Lindsay [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



Hello;

I have been using tomcat for years for all of my web  
applications.  I am just wondering if there is anything  
better/faster/stronger out there for running WebObjects  
applications.


Most of the applications I write have  5000 users and are  
required to have an uptime of 99.8%.  The users of the  
applications use them to perform all of their day-to-day  
tasks.  Performance is an foremost in my mind, as I  
maintain all of the applications and assist users with any  
issues they may encounter.


Thanks,

Don
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase  
their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to  
solve specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]





--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve  
specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]





--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects







___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options

Re: Best Server Environment for Large WebObjects Applications

[Alan Ward]

They have smaller ones too... I doubt that you need 48,000 SSL  
transactions per second!


http://www.citrix.com/English/ps2/products/feature.asp?contentID=24988

Alan

On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:13 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

MPX comes in two models, the 17000 and 15000, starting at $180,000  
for a high availability pair.


I don't think I'll be getting a pair of those for my birthday...



On Apr 28, 2008, at 4:09 PM, Jake MacMullin wrote:

While people are discussing Netscaler, you may be interested to  
know there is a new version available.


I hadn't heard of Netscaler before Alan mentioned it on this list  
- but then I saw this in my morning RSS feeds:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/28/citrix_netscaler_mpx/

Cheers,

Jake

On 29/04/2008, at 7:17 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:15 PM, Alan Ward wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:08 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Alan Ward wrote:

On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Alan Ward wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:


caching of static and dynamic content

Having been bitten by webperfcache doing that, I am curious  
if you have seen WO used on one of these?


I have.


I am curious as to how dynamic content caching works.


I haven't seen it used for caching, only for request routing  
and SSL.


One  more question: you said that you don't need to use  
wotaskd with these.  How does that work?


It can use various techniques for deciding when an app  
instance is down (or unresponsive)
and will cease routing requests to it.  You still need  
something to restart dead apps but

you can do that without wotaskd.


Forgive me, for I am slow.  And, yes, I have had a fair bit of  
coffee today.  :-)


I'm probably being overly cautious in what I divulge on a public  
list :-)


I appreciate that.  I am trying to be cautious in how I ask things.


With  wotaskd, there is a session and instance identifier in  
either the URL or in cookies.  How does that process work with  
a NetScaler?


It can route based on cookies or instance numbers

Do you need portable sessions?  Does it only work for  
sessionless requests (direct actions and such)?


no, sessionful requests work too


Thanks, that is very interesting information.

Chuck




On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Alan Ward wrote:



http://www.citrix.com/english/ps2/products/product.asp? 
contentID=21679


you don't need to run wotaskd if you run your apps behind  
one of these.  I'm not saying
you should get one just that it's an option that I*  
believe is better/faster/stronger than

Tomcat (which was your original question).

Alan

* my personal belief and not necessarily a statement  
representing any opinion of my employer


On Apr 27, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Don Lindsay wrote:


Hello;

Hmmm, I haven't heard of net scaler?

As far as wotaskd, isnt that only available on Macintosh  
OS X and not on other environments?


Don
On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Have you looked at a Netscaler?

Alan


On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:20 AM, Don Lindsay  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hello;

I have been using tomcat for years for all of my web  
applications.  I am just wondering if there is anything  
better/faster/stronger out there for running WebObjects  
applications.


Most of the applications I write have  5000 users and  
are required to have an uptime of 99.8%.  The users of  
the applications use them to perform all of their day- 
to-day tasks.  Performance is an foremost in my mind,  
as I maintain all of the applications and assist users  
with any issues they may encounter.


Thanks,

Don
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be  
ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ 
award%40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill 
%40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase  
their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to  
solve specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]





--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase  
their overall knowledge

Re: Best Server Environment for Large WebObjects Applications

[Alan Ward]

The question was about something better than Tomcat not cheaper ;-)

Alan

On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Guido Neitzer wrote:

MPX comes in two models, the 17000 and 15000, starting at $180,000  
for a high availability pair.


Maybe I stick with wotaskd for the time being ... ;-)

cug

On 28.04.2008, at 17:09, Jake MacMullin wrote:
While people are discussing Netscaler, you may be interested to  
know there is a new version available.


I hadn't heard of Netscaler before Alan mentioned it on this list  
- but then I saw this in my morning RSS feeds:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/28/citrix_netscaler_mpx/

Cheers,

Jake

On 29/04/2008, at 7:17 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:15 PM, Alan Ward wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:08 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:37 PM, Alan Ward wrote:

On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Alan Ward wrote:



On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:


caching of static and dynamic content

Having been bitten by webperfcache doing that, I am curious  
if you have seen WO used on one of these?


I have.


I am curious as to how dynamic content caching works.


I haven't seen it used for caching, only for request routing  
and SSL.


One  more question: you said that you don't need to use  
wotaskd with these.  How does that work?


It can use various techniques for deciding when an app  
instance is down (or unresponsive)
and will cease routing requests to it.  You still need  
something to restart dead apps but

you can do that without wotaskd.


Forgive me, for I am slow.  And, yes, I have had a fair bit of  
coffee today.  :-)


I'm probably being overly cautious in what I divulge on a public  
list :-)


I appreciate that.  I am trying to be cautious in how I ask things.


With  wotaskd, there is a session and instance identifier in  
either the URL or in cookies.  How does that process work with  
a NetScaler?


It can route based on cookies or instance numbers

Do you need portable sessions?  Does it only work for  
sessionless requests (direct actions and such)?


no, sessionful requests work too


Thanks, that is very interesting information.

Chuck




On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Alan Ward wrote:



http://www.citrix.com/english/ps2/products/product.asp? 
contentID=21679


you don't need to run wotaskd if you run your apps behind  
one of these.  I'm not saying
you should get one just that it's an option that I*  
believe is better/faster/stronger than

Tomcat (which was your original question).

Alan

* my personal belief and not necessarily a statement  
representing any opinion of my employer


On Apr 27, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Don Lindsay wrote:


Hello;

Hmmm, I haven't heard of net scaler?

As far as wotaskd, isnt that only available on Macintosh  
OS X and not on other environments?


Don
On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Have you looked at a Netscaler?

Alan


On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:20 AM, Don Lindsay  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hello;

I have been using tomcat for years for all of my web  
applications.  I am just wondering if there is anything  
better/faster/stronger out there for running WebObjects  
applications.


Most of the applications I write have  5000 users and  
are required to have an uptime of 99.8%.  The users of  
the applications use them to perform all of their day- 
to-day tasks.  Performance is an foremost in my mind,  
as I maintain all of the applications and assist users  
with any issues they may encounter.


Thanks,

Don
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be  
ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ 
award%40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill 
%40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase  
their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to  
solve specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]





--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase  
their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to  
solve specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products

Re: Best Server Environment for Large WebObjects Applications

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:59 PM, Don Lindsay wrote:

I looked at the NetScaler, however a hardware compression/proxy  
device is not what I am looking for.  I am more interested in  
application server performance running the app than line speed.


The apps run standalone (i.e. not within tomcat or any other  
container).  The advantage is that you can

run *just* the app on (as many as you want) boxes behind the netscaler.


It does look interesting, these types of machines have been around  
in one form or another for years :)  Soemtiems theyw ork well  
sometimes they do not.


It's really a question of scale.  If you need to run thousands of  
instances of your app then you really benefit
from solutions like these.  If you're running half a dozen instances  
then it's simply not worth it.


Alan



Don

On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:


caching of static and dynamic content

Having been bitten by webperfcache doing that, I am curious if you  
have seen WO used on one of these?  I am curious as to how dynamic  
content caching works.



Chuck


On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Alan Ward wrote:



http://www.citrix.com/english/ps2/products/product.asp? 
contentID=21679


you don't need to run wotaskd if you run your apps behind one of  
these.  I'm not saying
you should get one just that it's an option that I* believe  
is better/faster/stronger than

Tomcat (which was your original question).

Alan

* my personal belief and not necessarily a statement representing  
any opinion of my employer


On Apr 27, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Don Lindsay wrote:


Hello;

Hmmm, I haven't heard of net scaler?

As far as wotaskd, isnt that only available on Macintosh OS X  
and not on other environments?


Don
On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Have you looked at a Netscaler?

Alan


On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:20 AM, Don Lindsay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello;

I have been using tomcat for years for all of my web  
applications.  I am just wondering if there is anything better/ 
faster/stronger out there for running WebObjects applications.


Most of the applications I write have  5000 users and are  
required to have an uptime of 99.8%.  The users of the  
applications use them to perform all of their day-to-day  
tasks.  Performance is an foremost in my mind, as I maintain  
all of the applications and assist users with any issues they  
may encounter.


Thanks,

Don
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve  
specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pccdonl% 
40mac.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Web Service fails: add is not a supported operation in com.webobjects.foundation.NSArray ?

[Alan Ward]

um, how about using an NSMutableArray?  NSArray is immutable and does  
not implement add.


Alan

On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:18 AM, Juergen Lorenz Simon wrote:


Hello all,

I'm trying to implement a simple web service.  One of the  
webservice operations takes an NSArray as parameter.


public static void foo(NSArray bar);

When the call is made, the following error pops up:

[2008-04-24 12:12:13 CEST] WorkerThread8 AxisFault
 faultCode: {http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/} 
Server.userException

 faultSubcode:
 faultString: java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: add is not a  
supported operation in com.webobjects.foundation.NSArray

 faultActor:
 faultNode:
 faultDetail:
	{http://xml.apache.org/axis/}stackTrace:  
java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: add is not a supported  
operation in com.webobjects.foundation.NSArray

at com.webobjects.foundation.NSArray.add(NSArray.java:965)
at org.apache.axis.utils.JavaUtils.convert(JavaUtils.java:465)
	at org.apache.axis.providers.java.RPCProvider.processMessage 
(RPCProvider.java:235)
	at org.apache.axis.providers.java.JavaProvider.invoke 
(JavaProvider.java:333)
	at org.apache.axis.strategies.InvocationStrategy.visit 
(InvocationStrategy.java:71)

at org.apache.axis.SimpleChain.doVisiting(SimpleChain.java:150)
at org.apache.axis.SimpleChain.invoke(SimpleChain.java:120)
	at org.apache.axis.handlers.soap.SOAPService.invoke 
(SOAPService.java:481)

at org.apache.axis.server.AxisServer.invoke(AxisServer.java:323)
	at  
com.webobjects.appserver._private.WOWebService.performActionNamed 
(WOWebService.java:375)
	at  
com.webobjects.appserver._private.WOActionRequestHandler._handleReques 
t(WOActionRequestHandler.java:240)
	at  
com.webobjects.appserver._private.WOActionRequestHandler.handleRequest 
(WOActionRequestHandler.java:142)
	at  
com.webobjects.appserver._private.WOWebServiceRequestHandler.handleReq 
uest(WOWebServiceRequestHandler.java:95)
	at com.webobjects.appserver.WOApplication.dispatchRequest 
(WOApplication.java:1306)
	at com.webobjects.appserver._private.WOWorkerThread.runOnce 
(WOWorkerThread.java:173)
	at com.webobjects.appserver._private.WOWorkerThread.run 
(WOWorkerThread.java:254)

at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:613)

{http://xml.apache.org/axis/}isRuntimeException: true

I was able to get this working by using ProjectWonder. Apparently  
the NSArray class is patched
in PW and won't blow up when add(..) is called. Although we use PW  
a lot anyway and thus have
a workaround, I would like to know if someone else had the problem  
and eliminated it? Should I
use ordinary java collections (like List) in the parameters instead  
of NSArray?



Thanks!

PS: WO 5.3 on OS X 10.5.2 (using woswitch.sh), Eclipse 3.3, PW4


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: MS SQL and NSTimestamp.DistantFuture

[Alan Ward]

I believe the problem is that Microsoft has never really considered  
what the distantFuture may have in store for them.

One of these days they'll have a sudden awakening

:-)

Alan

On Apr 18, 2008, at 2:22 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

I ended up implementing my own DistantFuture method in my Utility  
class. Not the greatest, but it works like a charm.


I can't believe that Chuck hasn't come up with a fix for this MS  
SQL shortcoming.  He's fixed so many others.


Slacker. He probably can't.

Dave

On Apr 17, 2008, at 10:37 PM, Lachlan Deck wrote:


On 18/04/2008, at 1:45 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

Apparently MS SQL Server does not like the value  
NSTimestamp.DistantFuture tries to send to the database.


After capturing the exact SQL and trying it out using Aqua Data  
Studio, I get the following error: Syntax error converting  
datetime from character string.


The value it is trying to use is: '292278994-08-17 02:12:55'

MS SQL doesn't like anything more than a 4-digit year.


Don't tell me we learnt nothing from the y2k bug... and it's now a  
y10k bug ;-)


I suppose I could just not use NSTimestamp.DistantFuture, and  
pass a date like '-12-31 23:59:59' or something. Any better  
suggestions for a work-around?


Perhaps you could override your setters (via velocity) to call  
some transformFunction that'll round down a few years for mysql?


with regards,
--

Lachlan Deck





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Removing extra blank lines from generated html?

[Alan Ward]

always the joker ;-)

On Apr 18, 2008, at 4:12 PM, Hugi Þórðarson wrote:

How extreme do you want to get? You can work some wonders with your  
HTML in dispatchRequest


Personally, I find that this generates the cleanest possible response:

public WOResponse dispatchReqcuest( WORequest request ) {
WOResponse respone = super.dispatchRequest( request );
response.setContent(  );
return response;
}

... although you might want to do some more interesting processing  
on the response's content() ;-). At least, you should get the  
general idea - dispatchRequest is an excellent place to postprocess  
the HTML created by your app.


- hugi

// Hugi Thordarson
// http://hugi.karlmenn.is/




On 18.4.2008, at 21:35, John Huss wrote:
Why do you care about the blank line?  Or do you want to remove  
all extra whitespace of any kind?


John

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Alan Zebchuk  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone have a solution for removing the extra blank lines  
from the html generated by a component? i.e. when there's a  
conditional where the condition is false, the generated html has  
blank lines where the conditional would have been.


Thanks,

Alan


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/hugi% 
40karlmenn.is


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Staying with WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 13, 2008, at 3:35 AM, Lachlan Deck wrote:


Hi Alan,

On 12/04/2008, at 6:24 AM, Alan Ward wrote:

On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:06 PM, Simon McLean wrote:

I think the real bug-bear for people struggling to get their  
companies to commit to webobjects isn't the fact that it's not  
open source - i think it's the fact that you have to buy a mac to  
get your hands on the frameworks.


Really?  That's news to me.




Frankly, I think this is ridiculous too. I can't believe  
WebObjects itself is a key driver behind mac sales so why not  
just go the full hog and make the frameworks a free download from  
developer.apple.com ? If apple did this i think there would be so  
much more interest in WebObjects...


Not the exact hostname that you wanted but it's somewhat similar  
isn't it?

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/webobjectsdeveloper.html


I, for one, am not surprised that people have the impression of  
webobjects not being available for download. Think about it...
i.e., http://webobjects.com forwards us to http:// 
developer.apple.com/tools/webobjects where the only mention of  
download is for the Apple Developer Tools... which only runs on: Mac.


Would it be too hard to put a link on the above page to?
http://support.apple.com/kb/index? 
page=searchsrc=support_site.kbasefac=Downloadsq=WebObjects


And it might be nice to put links to community documentation too :-)


I have no control (or influence) over what goes on those pages.  I'm  
a WO user like you.


Alan



with regards,
--

Lachlan Deck





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Staying with WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:47 PM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Apr 11, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Simon McLean wrote:

I think the real bug-bear for people struggling to get their  
companies to commit to webobjects isn't the fact that it's not  
open source - i think it's the fact that you have to buy a mac to  
get your hands on the frameworks.




No problem. Just write up the purchase order for a copy of the WO  
5.4 frameworks wrapped in super-sexy MacBookPro packaging. Just  
$4,000. Or you can go for the more economical Mac mini packaging.  
Just $599. (that's $200 off the $799 list-price for 5.2) and you  
get a free computer to (dual)boot.


:-)

Personally, I like the MacBook Air packaging.

Alan



Dave

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Staying with WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 11, 2008, at 7:13 PM, Simon McLean wrote:

wow, so you must have made it to california by sail ? well done  
captain pierre :-)


Yes, Pierre's older than I thought :-)

...unless he was into horse racing. I believe race horses are  
still sold in guineas. the extra 5% covers the auctioneers fee IIRC.


The guinea coin of 1663 was the first British machine-struck gold  
coin. The coin was originally worth one pound, which was twenty  
shillings; but rises in the price of gold caused the value of the  
guinea to increase, at times as high as thirty shillings. The name,  
which was an unofficial name for the coin, came from Guinea in  
Africa, where much of the gold used to make the coins originated.
Although the coin is no longer current, the term guinea survives in  
some circles, notably horse racing and in the sale of rams, to mean  
an amount of one pound and five pence in decimalised currency  
(equivalent to 21 shillings).


Alan



Simon

On 12 Apr 2008, at 02:08, Mr. Pierre Frisch wrote:

I got married in London to a british girl and that was long enough  
ago that I know what a guinea is (105 pences).


Pierre
--
Pierre Frisch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Apr 11, 2008, at 18:04, Simon McLean wrote:


ok, there really is some history here.

and there's me thinking piere had just added an h by mistake ...

;-)

simon

On 12 Apr 2008, at 01:44, Michelle Parker wrote:


LOL

I didn't need to look it up. I saw it in a book I was reading  
last week, by Charles Dickens!


m


On 12/04/2008, at 10:24 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:


LOL.  I wish I could claim that I needed to look that up...


On Apr 11, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Mr. Pierre Frisch wrote:


For us old fart we could just bring a farthing to the table.

Pierre
--
Pierre Frisch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Apr 11, 2008, at 13:38, Simon McLean wrote:


ps. i'm too young to know that!

Simon


Just my 2 pence, being british n'all :-)


A true Brit would say tuppence.  :-)


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pierre% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


--
Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase  
their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to  
solve specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mich% 
40webobjectives.com.au


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ 
simon_mclean%40mac.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pierre% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Staying with WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 11, 2008, at 7:24 PM, Simon McLean wrote:

so come one alan, how did you end up over the pond too ? we all  
want to know the nitty gritty ... :-)


I too married an English woman and this was the only way I could  
escape :-)


To be honest I was working for a US software company in  
Guildford, Surrey in '89 when they
moved me out to San Francisco.  Been in the US ever since.  I live in  
Boulder, CO now though

but I still work for Apple (from home).

Alan



Simon

On 12 Apr 2008, at 02:22, Alan Ward wrote:




On Apr 11, 2008, at 7:13 PM, Simon McLean wrote:
wow, so you must have made it to california by sail ? well done  
captain pierre :-)


Yes, Pierre's older than I thought :-)

...unless he was into horse racing. I believe race horses are  
still sold in guineas. the extra 5% covers the auctioneers fee  
IIRC.


The guinea coin of 1663 was the first British machine-struck gold  
coin. The coin was originally worth one pound, which was twenty  
shillings; but rises in the price of gold caused the value of the  
guinea to increase, at times as high as thirty shillings. The  
name, which was an unofficial name for the coin, came from Guinea  
in Africa, where much of the gold used to make the coins originated.
Although the coin is no longer current, the term guinea survives  
in some circles, notably horse racing and in the sale of rams, to  
mean an amount of one pound and five pence in decimalised currency  
(equivalent to 21 shillings).


Alan



Simon

On 12 Apr 2008, at 02:08, Mr. Pierre Frisch wrote:

I got married in London to a british girl and that was long  
enough ago that I know what a guinea is (105 pences).


Pierre
--
Pierre Frisch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Apr 11, 2008, at 18:04, Simon McLean wrote:


ok, there really is some history here.

and there's me thinking piere had just added an h by mistake ...

;-)

simon

On 12 Apr 2008, at 01:44, Michelle Parker wrote:


LOL

I didn't need to look it up. I saw it in a book I was reading  
last week, by Charles Dickens!


m


On 12/04/2008, at 10:24 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:


LOL.  I wish I could claim that I needed to look that up...


On Apr 11, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Mr. Pierre Frisch wrote:


For us old fart we could just bring a farthing to the table.

Pierre
--
Pierre Frisch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Apr 11, 2008, at 13:38, Simon McLean wrote:


ps. i'm too young to know that!

Simon


Just my 2 pence, being british n'all :-)


A true Brit would say tuppence.  :-)


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pierre 
%40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 
40global-village.net


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


--
Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase  
their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to  
solve specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mich% 
40webobjectives.com.au


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]



___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ 
simon_mclean%40mac.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pierre% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]






 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com

Re: Leaving WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

that too ;-)

On Apr 8, 2008, at 9:43 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:


It's done with thought control
I was going to guess that Apple's mail server randomly inserts that  
comment into all outgoing emails ...


ms

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Leaving WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 8, 2008, at 3:02 PM, Robert B. Hanviriyapunt wrote:


I can ask about WWDC08.

The answer will probably be no since the decision was made quite a  
long time ago (hard to de-couple it right now tho, so it will  
definitely be a while).


Still the 3 issues I mentioned aren't going away, are they?  You  
probably addressed the 3rd, but 1 and 2 are unfortunately stuck in  
the minds of the technology directors.


1. Is clearly a totally bogus argument coming from a Windows shop.   
Until they switch to Linux I can't imagine how
you could even hear that argument without breaking into raucous fits  
of laughter.


2. You obviously didn't read all of the thread that you started.   
There was offer of a support contract in there if you read it.


Alan



= Robert =

On Apr 8, 2008, at 2:18 PM, Christian Trotobas wrote:


Hello Robert,

Any chance you or any from your company could attend the WOWODC  
this year ?

http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc08/

WO is more than alive, and getting new adopters. Today, I gave a  
short (45 mn) introduction to 9 young students from the engineer  
school in Sophia Antipolis (France); to my own surprise, they were  
more than receptive, impressed.


Cheers,
Christian Trotobas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://intellicore.net



Le 8 avr. 08 à 20:50, Robert B. Hanviriyapunt a écrit :
For some time now, my company has been set on leaving  
WebObjects.  We have been running WebObjects 5.2 on Windows  
servers.  We haven't moved 100% yet, but my next project will be  
using JavaServer Faces.  And another fairly new project will be  
using OpenLaszlo with our existing J2E back-end.


Company's reasons for leaving:

1. WebObjects is proprietary

2. New versions of WebObjects is not supported on Windows

3. Perceived lack of knowledgeable WebObjects programmers (I'm in  
the Chicago suburbs -- Northbrook, IL, to be precise)


We do NOT use:

1. Xcode/WebObjects tools [Xcode or WOBuilder or EOModeler]  
(except for me on a MacBook Pro -- only because I requested it)


2. EOF

3. WONDER

4. Servlet container (which I do not prefer anyway)

I personally enjoy WebObjects development and wish that  
WebObjects would be more palatable to companies such as mine.


Please excuse the ranting, but I want someone at Apple to know  
that as great as WebObjects technology is [I personally think it  
is the BEST I've seen anywhere], it is losing ground because if  
it's lack in thet top 3 items mentioned.  I wish so bad that  
Apple would do something about it.


I'm guessing people's response will be:  Don't hold your breath.

Pity.  :(

= Robert =
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/trotobas% 
40mac.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Leaving WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

On Apr 9, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Miguel Arroz wrote:


Hi!

  The thing I don't understand is, how were you using WO without  
using EOF? Were you using just the presentation layers?


It's quite simple, just don't include any EOF models.  I have written  
a couple of WO apps in the past that have no
EOF and no database connection.  They were very fast and highly  
concurrent.


Alan



  Yours

Miguel Arroz

On 2008/04/09, at 17:44, Robert B.Hanviriyapunt wrote:

In general, we ARE in good shape ... with the exception that I've  
started working on an OpenLaszlo/Struts app (which is on hold) and  
am now on JSFaces development.  I would LOVE to get back to WebO  
and even show them EOF!  But perhaps it's too late.  The only  
thing that can turn it around is the changes mentioned above  
(proprietariness and/or Windows support).


Miguel Arroz
http://www.terminalapp.net
http://www.ipragma.com



 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Leaving WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

I know a bunch of good British WO Developers but they're all  
gainfully employed over here in the US. in fact, most of them now

work for the same company!  :-)

Alan

On Apr 8, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Simon McLean wrote:

3. Perceived lack of knowledgeable WebObjects programmers (I'm in  
the Chicago suburbs -- Northbrook, IL, to be precise)


Perhaps they've not been paying attention to the mailings lists.  
(specifically: webobjects-dev, wonder-disc, woproject-dev).


I think they meant lack of unemployed, knowledgeable WebObjects  
programmers.  Most (all?) of us are gainfully employed most of  
the time.  Good WO developers are a little hard to find.


Hey, you guys should try finding good WebObjects developers in the  
UK - employed or otherwise. You are doing unbelievably well if you  
can find a recruitment agent that has even heard of WebObjects :-)


Simon

 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Leaving WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

And of course all the old arguments still apply.  Like how many  
J2EE developers (and how long) would it take to put together
an online commerce site that could become the #1 music retailer in  
the world?  ;-)


You may be able to find them more easily but how productive are they?

Alan

On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Jeff Smith wrote:

IMO, there's no excuse for somebody saying there aren't any good WO  
developers to hire these days.  I know of several who are working  
on J2EE stuff that would gladly jump to a WO project if one came  
up.  I'm more than happy to be working in WO now, I actually think  
it's much better now than just a few years ago.  At least I feel  
like there's more WO going on these days (I actually got a WO call  
from a recruiter the other day, yikes!)


Don't give up WO because of all these reasons--do what I do and  
show them that WO is better for all the right reasons and make them  
come around.  There are lots of reasons to stick with it.


On Apr 8, 2008, at 5:46 PM, Andrew Lindesay wrote:

3. Perceived lack of knowledgeable WebObjects programmers (I'm  
in the Chicago suburbs -- Northbrook, IL, to be precise)

...
Perhaps they've not been paying attention to the mailings lists.  
(specifically: webobjects-dev, wonder-disc, woproject-dev).

...
I think they meant lack of unemployed, knowledgeable WebObjects  
programmers.  Most (all?) of us are gainfully employed most of  
the time.  Good WO developers are a little hard to find.


I'm having a lull at the moment if anybody wants to discuss  
anything... :)


cheers.

___
Andrew Lindesay
www.lindesay.co.nz

___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jas35%40mac.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Leaving WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

It's done with thought control

On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:20 PM, Simon McLean wrote:


#1 music retailer in the world?


Do you guys all have a new key combination to insert that statement  
with ease ? :-)


Simon




 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Leaving WebObjects

[Alan Ward]

I knew someone would get a WO is dead comment onto the list somehow  
but I honestly thought it would be in response
to the WWDC calendar.  That one was out of left field!  Mike, I've  
been working with WO for almost a decade and I've seen

it much weaker than it is right now.

Alan

On Apr 8, 2008, at 5:45 PM, mike deavila wrote:



I think there is a lot of this with many companies doing the same  
thing. Without Apple support of windows, it does not have much of a  
future and the unsupported WOLips does not help enough.  I have  
been on and off this list or others like it for years and I read  
this all the time and the WebObjects knowledge base is very small  
now. Apple has killed WebObjects and WOLips is just slowing the  
death. I have been doing WO for over a decade and I have never seen  
it this weak. I'm working and still doing WO (Yea!) but i'm in the  
process of moving off WO even-though it was a great technology. WO  
rest in peace...


cheers


On Apr 8, 2008, at 11:50 AM, Robert B. Hanviriyapunt wrote:
For some time now, my company has been set on leaving WebObjects.   
We have been running WebObjects 5.2 on Windows servers.  We  
haven't moved 100% yet, but my next project will be using  
JavaServer Faces.  And another fairly new project will be using  
OpenLaszlo with our existing J2E back-end.


Company's reasons for leaving:

1. WebObjects is proprietary

2. New versions of WebObjects is not supported on Windows

3. Perceived lack of knowledgeable WebObjects programmers (I'm in  
the Chicago suburbs -- Northbrook, IL, to be precise)


We do NOT use:

1. Xcode/WebObjects tools [Xcode or WOBuilder or EOModeler]  
(except for me on a MacBook Pro -- only because I requested it)


2. EOF

3. WONDER

4. Servlet container (which I do not prefer anyway)

I personally enjoy WebObjects development and wish that WebObjects  
would be more palatable to companies such as mine.


Please excuse the ranting, but I want someone at Apple to know  
that as great as WebObjects technology is [I personally think it  
is the BEST I've seen anywhere], it is losing ground because if  
it's lack in thet top 3 items mentioned.  I wish so bad that Apple  
would do something about it.


I'm guessing people's response will be:  Don't hold your breath.

Pity.  :(

= Robert =
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/objcman% 
40gmail.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: The sky is falling! The world is ending! WebObjects is Dead!

[Alan Ward]

That should tell you that we're interested in getting developers of  
every persuasion onto the Mac platform
(even RoR developers :-) and that once they get here maybe they'll  
explore WO and find that they like it!


Alan

On Apr 3, 2008, at 1:05 AM, Oliver Scheel wrote:




I can't wait for the annual noob fest where they all jump in with...
I'm not gonna spend my time learning this if Apple is EOL'ing it.
I look forward to that *every* year :-)


;-)

Oliver

P.S.: And what should tell us the session Creating Unified Ruby on  
Rails

Applications in Safari? ;-)


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: The sky is falling! The world is ending! WebObjects is Dead!

[Alan Ward]

I can't wait for the annual noob fest where they all jump in with...  
I'm not gonna spend my time learning this if Apple is EOL'ing it.

I look forward to that *every* year :-)

Alan

On Apr 2, 2008, at 5:03 PM, David Holt wrote:


Darn, you beat me to it!

David

:-)

On 2-Apr-08, at 3:57 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

WWDC sessions are out and there are no WO sessions!It is the  
end!  WebObjects is dead! Dead, dead I say!

http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/sessions/

Was I first this year?  Was I?  Someone was going to start the  
panic.  It was my turn.



For anyone new to WO: the WO sessions get announced later.   
WebObjects is definitely not dead.  Be patient.  But if you want  
even more real cool WO stuff, you want to come to WOWODC:


http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc08/

See you there!

Chuck

--

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve  
specific problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects





___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ 
programmingosx%40mac.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Converting to a static site.

[Alan Ward]

I believe the BBC site is done like this they use WO to generate  
the pages but then save the output to
files and serve it up via a static WebServer.  I think they wrote a  
bunch of code to do that though.


Alan

On Feb 25, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Guido Neitzer wrote:


On 25.02.2008, at 11:51, James Cicenia wrote:

I thought I had remembered a document somewhere on the web on  
instructions on
how to convert a simple webobjects site to a static one, say, for  
publishing on a cd.


I have a simple catalog site that I would like to do this with. Is  
this possible or does

someone have the link with the instructions.


Talk to the guys at Objectpark Development. They have done  
something like this a couple of years ago. As far as I remember, it  
wasn't so easy.


http://www.objectpark.net

cug
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: creating my EOQualifier in code

[Alan Ward]

I don't know about OpenBase but with Oracle you can create an index  
on upper(column)
and in fact you probably should do so if you're doing  
caseInsensitiveLikes


Alan

On Feb 25, 2008, at 5:46 PM, Alex Cone wrote:

Fore OpenBase caseInsensitiveLike gets transmogrified to like as  
that is already

case insensitive in OpenBase-land.

The problem to avoid is that often by comparing to upper(column)  
you bypass

any indexes on that column.

The FrontBase and OpenBase plug-ins avoid this in their handling of  
this query

component.

abc

On Feb 25, 2008, at 12:09 PM, webobjects-dev- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



From: Mike Schrag [EMAIL PROTECTED]

OK, let me amend my reply.  Still waiting for the coffee to  
brew.  :-)  Unless the plugin does this, EOF generates Upper 
(column) = Upper(value).

That excerpt I pasted was from FrontBasePlugIn ...


Yes, but there are other databases...  :-)

Just clarifying -- I couldn't tell if you were responding to my post,
or to the thread in general.

ms




__alex cone
ceo  c o d e f a b  llc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
212.465.8484 x101
http://www.codefab.com

If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space.




___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/award% 
40apple.com


This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]