Re: [WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L

[Scott Parsons]

Here's an option



e-zy.net

PH: 801-432-0098

FAX: 801-618-4220

sc...@e-zy.net

www.e-zy.net

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L

 

I am looking for reflectors that can be used with the NS2 or NS2L to
increase gain and directionality.

Has anyone seen or heard of something like this?  It seems to me to be an
obvious add-on to the radios and a much better way to get more gain than
using the external antenna port on the NS2.  I expect it would be less
expensive than grid and pigtail as well.

Blair




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Re: [WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L

[Forbes Mercy]

I know they are out there but you'd really be better off with a bullet.

On 2/15/2010 4:58 PM, Jayson Baker wrote:
> I wouldn't use a dish on the NS2, maybe the NS2L is ok.  NS2 has two patch
> antennas internally, which will cause a really screwed up pattern out of a
> dish.  Even though people claim to do it, I would not.  NS2L has only a
> single patch, and should be better, but still not perfect.  Keep in mind
> these are not FCC certified.
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Rick Harnish  wrote:
>
>
>> Blair,
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=325  SecurAlign is a WISPA Vendor member who
>> makes reflector dishes for this exact purpose.  Their website is
>> http://www.securalign.com/  Ask for Layne Christianson.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Blair Davis
>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:40 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L
>>
>>
>>
>> I am looking for reflectors that can be used with the NS2 or NS2L to
>> increase gain and directionality.
>>
>> Has anyone seen or heard of something like this?  It seems to me to be an
>> obvious add-on to the radios and a much better way to get more gain than
>> using the external antenna port on the NS2.  I expect it would be less
>> expensive than grid and pigtail as well.
>>
>> Blair
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2687 - Release Date: 02/15/10
>> 19:35:00
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>  
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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>
>




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[WISPA] WISPA Member Map

[Rick Harnish]

To make it easier for me, if you have changes to the site, please fill out
the attached template and send it back to me.  This way I can aggregate the
changes and import them without too much stress.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

 

Although I wasn't quite ready to make this public yet, given the discussion
on the Form 477 today, I am bringing this out a little premature.  I did
spend a portion of the weekend developing a map of WISPA members.  It can be
found at http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=170.  If you enlarge the map with the
link below, please note that there are two pages..must be a google map
defect.  Clicking on the icon bubble will give information about each
company.  The color codes are as follows:  Yellow - Principal Member, Blue -
Associate Member, Purple - Vendor Member.  

 

My apologies if I have missed anyone.  If you want to change your
information, please send the text to rharn...@wispa.org and I will amend it.
Please be patient as I may be overwhelmed.  If you want your icon removed,
just let me know.  

 

I will be auditing the WISPA membership roles in the next few weeks and may
be removing some that have not paid their dues in quite some time.  If you
think you are delinquent on your dues, have not gotten an invoice or would
like to join, please email bill...@wispa.org or to join, go to
http://signup.wispa.org.  

 

I'm open to suggestions and I am also open to allow non-members to be added
to the map.  One suggestion I have thought might be great is if the icon
tags would link to a coverage map of your territory.  

 

Please take a look at this promptly and check address, company name, website
and phone numbers for accuracy.  I can delete or add whatever information
you request.

 

Respectfully,

Rick Harnish

 



WISPA Map Template (3).xls
Description: MS-Excel spreadsheet



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Re: [WISPA] 477 Survey

[Scott Piehn]

As of 7:25 PM
38 Total Response
35 Increasing customers, 3 decreasing
Customers represented = 46,585
File Form 477  = 15 yes, 8 yes but late, 14 no, 1 what is it
Want trainig = 8 yes, 3 no


Scott Piehn


- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Barnes" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:20 PM
Subject: [WISPA] 477 Survey


> Scott Piehn, has made a very quick 3 question survey on From 477 please 
> fill it out.
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3RZTC9F
>
>
> Steve Barnes
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 




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Re: [WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L

[Jayson Baker]

I wouldn't use a dish on the NS2, maybe the NS2L is ok.  NS2 has two patch
antennas internally, which will cause a really screwed up pattern out of a
dish.  Even though people claim to do it, I would not.  NS2L has only a
single patch, and should be better, but still not perfect.  Keep in mind
these are not FCC certified.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Rick Harnish  wrote:

> Blair,
>
>
>
> http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=325  SecurAlign is a WISPA Vendor member who
> makes reflector dishes for this exact purpose.  Their website is
> http://www.securalign.com/  Ask for Layne Christianson.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Blair Davis
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:40 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L
>
>
>
> I am looking for reflectors that can be used with the NS2 or NS2L to
> increase gain and directionality.
>
> Has anyone seen or heard of something like this?  It seems to me to be an
> obvious add-on to the radios and a much better way to get more gain than
> using the external antenna port on the NS2.  I expect it would be less
> expensive than grid and pigtail as well.
>
> Blair
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2687 - Release Date: 02/15/10
> 19:35:00
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Holland, Michigan

[Blair Davis]

Bob Moldashel wrote:

  Anyone cover this area?



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I have limited coverage of the south side of holland, mi.  and most of
allegan county, mi





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[WISPA] Looking for 5 Mb Ft Myers, FLA

[Bob Moldashel]

Looking for 5 Mb wholesale via wireless in Ft Myers area.  Anyone?




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[WISPA] Holland, Michigan

[Bob Moldashel]

Anyone cover this area?



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Re: [WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L

[Rick Harnish]

Blair,

 

http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=325  SecurAlign is a WISPA Vendor member who
makes reflector dishes for this exact purpose.  Their website is
http://www.securalign.com/  Ask for Layne Christianson.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 7:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L

 

I am looking for reflectors that can be used with the NS2 or NS2L to
increase gain and directionality.

Has anyone seen or heard of something like this?  It seems to me to be an
obvious add-on to the radios and a much better way to get more gain than
using the external antenna port on the NS2.  I expect it would be less
expensive than grid and pigtail as well.

Blair

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2687 - Release Date: 02/15/10
19:35:00




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[WISPA] Reflector grid or dish for NS2/NS2L

[Blair Davis]

I am looking for reflectors that can be used with the NS2 or NS2L to
increase gain and directionality.

Has anyone seen or heard of something like this?  It seems to me to be
an obvious add-on to the radios and a much better way to get more gain
than using the external antenna port on the NS2.  I expect it would be
less expensive than grid and pigtail as well.

Blair





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Re: [WISPA] Looking for DragonWave Air-Pair cables and feedback...

[Kristian Hoffmann]

On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 12:32 -0600, Brad Belton wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> We've inherited a DragonWave Air-Pair radio set and I'm looking for any
> feedback from those that have deployed these.  The good, bad and ugly.

We have a few Horizon Compact links.  They've done very well except for
when we get weird high/low pressure systems that result in a layer of
fog in our valley that sits at about ~150ft.  The DW engineer called the
effect ducting.  We enabled AAM in an attempt to counter the affects,
but the AAM code was apparently buggy in the version we had.  So instead
of stabilizing the link, it made it much, much worse.  So make sure you
get the latest firmware if you can.

> We'll probably need new cable sets for each end as well, so to any
> DragonWave vendors on the list please feel free to send me an email with
> prices on cable length options.

The Horizon Compact units have unfriendly ethernet connectors as well.
Something along the lines of this...

http://www.connecticc.com/default.aspx?page=item%
20detail&itemcode=JTRJ45-12NXL

> I sure hope their new Horizon radios don't require these BS proprietary
> cables like the Air-Pair radios.  What a pain in the tail...



-Kristian





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Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Richey]

"their staff's"

That's probably the key to why they are complaining.  There are many WISPs
that are one or two man shops.The last company I worked for was a two
man shop and 477 was a serious pain in the ass to deal with.   I am now
somewhere where that form is no longer part of my job.  :)

RIchey

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:39 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA List'; motor...@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] WISP's are killing themselves - New
FCC form 477 reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

I just asked my administrative assistant how long it took her to compile the
information to complete the FCC 477 form.  She said it took her about 6
hours this time.  Most of that was adding census tract data to new customers
since last September.  This was a job my sales staff was supposed to do with
each new customer addition.  I now know what we need to improve by next
September.  

 

We have always filed the 477 since the first time it was requested.  The
early years were frustrating, but each year we try to make the job easier by
keeping track of the information needed so that next time, it is easier.  We
have added the information needed to our customer records and when the time
comes, we merely run a report and then clean up the new customer data that
may need added or amended.   The government is telling us what they want, it
is our job to figure out how we can compile our data in an efficient manner
which will minimize the man-hours needed to complete the form. 

 

The point I am making is that we are in the business to supply Broadband and
Broadband is recognized by our Government as a key measurement of how our
country is doing compared to other countries.  It is essential that our
Government maintains as accurate of records as it can, so that policy can be
written to keep the US in the top echelon of the World's leaders in
Broadband productivity.  Given that, it is also essential that WISPs and
other Broadband industries adopt better practices to track this data in
their own businesses.  

 

It frustrates me every six months to read complaints on how hard the 477 is
to complete when it is evident that little effort was done by many companies
to make the job easier on their staff's the next time the 477 needs filed.
We demand proper documentation of all aspects of our business, whether
customer support, network construction and operation, trouble issues,
project management or reporting.  The more information we have available to
us as manager's of our businesses, the better we can perform our duties as
managers and the more productive we will be.  

 

I personally want to thank my programming staff for the fine work they do.
Their work saves the rest of our staff hours of time and hence our
productivity is increased. 

 

I recognize that many WISPs are short staffed and crippled with lack of
funding and overly multi-tasked employees.  What I do recommend is that with
proper documentation of your customers, network and finances, each of you
can grow your business much easier than with sloppy documentation.  Don't
take this as a criticism, but as a helpful hint that will help each of you
succeed.  Don't become mired in the chore, develop tools to make the chore a
piece of cake.

 

We make mistakes also, the important thing is to learn from the mistakes and
if documented properly, we can recognize mistakes quickly when they happen
and know how to fix the mistakes quickly the next time.  

 

Respectively,

Rick Harnish

 

 

 

From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:47 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves - New
FCC form 477 reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

 

What WISPA does with the government is great.  But this discussion is
between government and WISPs (not WISPA).

If history has taught anything it is that the government does not do its
tasks well.

900, 2.4 and 5.8 - works pretty well, without these three bands no one would
be a WISP.  3.65 - how well do you think that works.  Couldn't we all do
without this band?  Future bands - follow the trend.

I would love to have a dozen 20mhz channels in 700mhz, but in reality I just
don't see it happening.  Maybe we should all unite in one big WISP Co., go
into massive debt, somehow incorporate oil usage and then ask for a
government bailout.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts."
--- Winston Churchill



On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Chuck Bartosch 
wrote:

I can believe the data set is an accurate reflection of the filing (though
not an accurate reflection of what's actually deploy

Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Richey]

This is no way meant to be an excuse but.

I've talked to several WISPs/ISPs over the last year or two and many don't
really understand the need for filling out form 477.   Some of the smaller
WISPs/ISPs give up in frustration and others don't even know that it exists.


Richey

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Aaron D. Osgood
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC form
477report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

The WISP is not alone in their suffering with census tract coding "issues" -
the Public Safety industry (Fire/Police/EMS/EMA) is going through the same
thing with CAD (computer aided dispatch) systems

Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect

-Original Message-
From: Glenn Kelley 
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:54:47
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC form 477
report  is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

What about your local GSA office?
You could give them a list of your clients and ask that they create a report
- I am willing to bet it would not cost you anything 



_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 15, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

> 
> I did not submit my Form477 data until September, simply because I had 
> no way to give them accurate data!   Generating the data by zip codes 
> was easy, as all we had to do was take the zip codes from our billing or 
> service location information, spit out a report and be on our way.   
> Generating the codes by census tract was a nightmare, and I told the 
> people at the FCC that I would not be submitting the data until I could 
> get it as I did not have any way to provide it!





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[WISPA] WISPA Member Map

[Rick Harnish]

 

Although I wasn't quite ready to make this public yet, given the discussion
on the Form 477 today, I am bringing this out a little premature.  I did
spend a portion of the weekend developing a map of WISPA members.  It can be
found at http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=170.  If you enlarge the map with the
link below, please note that there are two pages..must be a google map
defect.  Clicking on the icon bubble will give information about each
company.  The color codes are as follows:  Yellow - Principal Member, Blue -
Associate Member, Purple - Vendor Member.  

 

My apologies if I have missed anyone.  If you want to change your
information, please send the text to rharn...@wispa.org and I will amend it.
Please be patient as I may be overwhelmed.  If you want your icon removed,
just let me know.  

 

I will be auditing the WISPA membership roles in the next few weeks and may
be removing some that have not paid their dues in quite some time.  If you
think you are delinquent on your dues, have not gotten an invoice or would
like to join, please email bill...@wispa.org or to join, go to
http://signup.wispa.org.  

 

I'm open to suggestions and I am also open to allow non-members to be added
to the map.  One suggestion I have thought might be great is if the icon
tags would link to a coverage map of your territory.  

 

Please take a look at this promptly and check address, company name, website
and phone numbers for accuracy.  I can delete or add whatever information
you request.

 

Respectfully,

Rick Harnish




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Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Rick Harnish]

I just asked my administrative assistant how long it took her to compile the
information to complete the FCC 477 form.  She said it took her about 6
hours this time.  Most of that was adding census tract data to new customers
since last September.  This was a job my sales staff was supposed to do with
each new customer addition.  I now know what we need to improve by next
September.  

 

We have always filed the 477 since the first time it was requested.  The
early years were frustrating, but each year we try to make the job easier by
keeping track of the information needed so that next time, it is easier.  We
have added the information needed to our customer records and when the time
comes, we merely run a report and then clean up the new customer data that
may need added or amended.   The government is telling us what they want, it
is our job to figure out how we can compile our data in an efficient manner
which will minimize the man-hours needed to complete the form. 

 

The point I am making is that we are in the business to supply Broadband and
Broadband is recognized by our Government as a key measurement of how our
country is doing compared to other countries.  It is essential that our
Government maintains as accurate of records as it can, so that policy can be
written to keep the US in the top echelon of the World's leaders in
Broadband productivity.  Given that, it is also essential that WISPs and
other Broadband industries adopt better practices to track this data in
their own businesses.  

 

It frustrates me every six months to read complaints on how hard the 477 is
to complete when it is evident that little effort was done by many companies
to make the job easier on their staff's the next time the 477 needs filed.
We demand proper documentation of all aspects of our business, whether
customer support, network construction and operation, trouble issues,
project management or reporting.  The more information we have available to
us as manager's of our businesses, the better we can perform our duties as
managers and the more productive we will be.  

 

I personally want to thank my programming staff for the fine work they do.
Their work saves the rest of our staff hours of time and hence our
productivity is increased. 

 

I recognize that many WISPs are short staffed and crippled with lack of
funding and overly multi-tasked employees.  What I do recommend is that with
proper documentation of your customers, network and finances, each of you
can grow your business much easier than with sloppy documentation.  Don't
take this as a criticism, but as a helpful hint that will help each of you
succeed.  Don't become mired in the chore, develop tools to make the chore a
piece of cake.

 

We make mistakes also, the important thing is to learn from the mistakes and
if documented properly, we can recognize mistakes quickly when they happen
and know how to fix the mistakes quickly the next time.  

 

Respectively,

Rick Harnish

 

 

 

From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:47 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves - New
FCC form 477 reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

 

What WISPA does with the government is great.  But this discussion is
between government and WISPs (not WISPA).

If history has taught anything it is that the government does not do its
tasks well.

900, 2.4 and 5.8 - works pretty well, without these three bands no one would
be a WISP.  3.65 - how well do you think that works.  Couldn't we all do
without this band?  Future bands - follow the trend.

I would love to have a dozen 20mhz channels in 700mhz, but in reality I just
don't see it happening.  Maybe we should all unite in one big WISP Co., go
into massive debt, somehow incorporate oil usage and then ask for a
government bailout.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts."
--- Winston Churchill



On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Chuck Bartosch 
wrote:

I can believe the data set is an accurate reflection of the filing (though
not an accurate reflection of what's actually deployed and used). For
example, though we filed, we filed late-somehow the nominal deadline just
slipped past us. I can imagine that happened to other providers too (and
skimming ahead in the thread I see others did file late just like we did).

In terms of numbers, the last time I checked (I think it was last fall),
something like only 5 fixed wireless providers had reported 477 data in the
entire state of NY and there are at least 7 other wireless ISPs merely in
the areas we serve (none of whom filed as far as I could tell).

Chuck


On Feb 15, 2010, at 3:17 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

> Something has to be wrong with the data set.  I don't know of ANY WISPs

[WISPA] 477 Survey

[Steve Barnes]

Scott Piehn, has made a very quick 3 question survey on From 477 please fill it 
out.  

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3RZTC9F


Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




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Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Aaron D. Osgood]

The WISP is not alone in their suffering with census tract coding "issues" - 
the Public Safety industry (Fire/Police/EMS/EMA) is going through the same 
thing with CAD (computer aided dispatch) systems

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect

-Original Message-
From: Glenn Kelley 
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:54:47 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC form 477
report  is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

What about your local GSA office?
You could give them a list of your clients and ask that they create a report - 
I am willing to bet it would not cost you anything 


_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 15, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

> 
> I did not submit my Form477 data until September, simply because I had 
> no way to give them accurate data!   Generating the data by zip codes 
> was easy, as all we had to do was take the zip codes from our billing or 
> service location information, spit out a report and be on our way.   
> Generating the codes by census tract was a nightmare, and I told the 
> people at the FCC that I would not be submitting the data until I could 
> get it as I did not have any way to provide it!




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Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Glenn Kelley]

What about your local GSA office?
You could give them a list of your clients and ask that they create a report - 
I am willing to bet it would not cost you anything 


_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 15, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

> 
> I did not submit my Form477 data until September, simply because I had 
> no way to give them accurate data!   Generating the data by zip codes 
> was easy, as all we had to do was take the zip codes from our billing or 
> service location information, spit out a report and be on our way.   
> Generating the codes by census tract was a nightmare, and I told the 
> people at the FCC that I would not be submitting the data until I could 
> get it as I did not have any way to provide it!




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Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I will agree that it is not a good thing that we are not reporting our 
data.  

However

I did not submit my Form477 data until September, simply because I had 
no way to give them accurate data!   Generating the data by zip codes 
was easy, as all we had to do was take the zip codes from our billing or 
service location information, spit out a report and be on our way.   
Generating the codes by census tract was a nightmare, and I told the 
people at the FCC that I would not be submitting the data until I could 
get it as I did not have any way to provide it!

I don't think that I would be going out on a limb to say that I run a 
professional WISP operation, with good documentation, accurate billing 
and a high degree of technical expertise.   Until the definition of the 
Form477 form came out last year requiring census tract information, 
there was no requirement for maintaining census tract information.   
There is also no accurate way to geocode census tract information from 
address information, as we found out when we ran our customer addresses 
through a geolocation database and ended up with an approximate 50% 
accuracy rate.   So here is the result - I operate a professionally run, 
well documented WISP operation and I was unable to comply with the 
requirements of the report.   I did send multiple messages to the people 
at the FCC in charge of the 477 and let them know why I had not 
completed the report, and we finally ended up submitting the information 
on the second report of the year with a note on the application that 
indicated we felt the data submitted was partially inaccurate due to 
geocoding database errors and we would work on cleaning up our own data 
going forward.   I can only imagine what the burden of trying to get 
this information is for the WISP operators who don't have the kind of 
resources I have to work with.  

Start to finish, the census tract requirement was a damn mess.

Going forward, we are developing a 477 report program that will get our 
information out of Freeside and generate the appropriate 477 required 
data.   Right now, I have GPS coordinates for about 20% of my customers, 
and we have a page where employees can login and get a real-time list of 
all the customers that don't have GPS coordinates.   We are using a 
combination of geocode database lookups using their service address to 
determine the unknown GPS coordinates, and if that data is obviously 
incorrect, we use the driving directions combined with Google Earth to 
determine the correct location.   Each of my employees are taking some 
time to work on this and we anticipate having all of our legacy data 
updated by June 1.   It is a giant pain in the ass, but is somewhat 
mitigated by being able to take a few months and a little bit of time 
everyday to get it updated.That is the only way that I am going to 
be able to deliver accurate data.  

If the FCC went back to just asking for zip codes, the WISP subscriber 
number would probably be over 1 million.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Brian Webster wrote:
> The latest FCC report on form 477 broadband data is out
> (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296239A1.pdf). While
> I don't see a whole lot of useful data in it, I do see where WISP's are
> killing themselves and the industry, why?
>
>   a.. In the periods prior to the December 2008 report, fixed wireless has
> shown a steady increase in subscribers. The last reporting period the number
> of subscribers dropped from 808,000 to 488,000!!! That's a 39.6% drop in the
> actual data that had been previously reported. Know I know that most of the
> problem is the fact they now require census tract reporting rather than zip
> codes, but dropping like this does not help the industry as a whole.
>   b.. Because of the low number of reported subscribers, the reporting by
> technology portions of the report does not even earn fixed wireless a spot
> on the charts in it's own category. It's lumped in with the 1.4% total of
> all other technologies compared to the rest of the broadband industry. Hell
> Satellite has their own category with .9%.
>   c.. The total number of fixed wireless providers reporting is 617. That
> means there are a huge number of WISP's not filing form 477 and those that
> didn't report must have a large number of subscribers. The previous period
> where fixed wireless had 808,000 subscribers had only 505 WISP's report!
> Matt Larsen and the WISP directory have around 1,800 WISP's registered. I've
> heard other estimates between 2,000 and over 4,000. Only 617 fixed wireless
> operators reporting is not helping the cause at all.
>   d.. The National broadband plan is being formulated as we speak, looking
> at those statistics it appears the WISP industry is in a serious decline and
> that as a total percentage of broadband provided to consumers nationally,
> they make no significant difference.
> If you were a government policy maker, would you even pay att

Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Brian Webster]

As many of you know I participated on a panel last week with 2 FCC staffers.
Here is the text of an email I just sent to them:

Paul and John;
I just reviewed the latest form 477 report. I am dismayed by the results
for the fixed wireless industry. I cannot believe, and I am sure you don't
either that there was a 39.6% decline in subscribers over 6 months when
there were 112 more operators reporting. The only conclusion I can draw is
that fixed wireless operators who reported in the past using the zip code
method, did not file when they were required to report by census tract. Many
of those operators must have had a large customer base.
As I mentioned on the panel, I have assisted some WISP's file their 477
reports by mapping their customer databases and assigning the proper tract
data to each record. In talking with most of them, it became apparent that
the FCC did not provide an adequate tool to help those people file. While it
is possible to look up a single address and get the tract data, there were
no provisions to allow for a bulk upload and query to assign this
information. Many of the 20 or so WISP's I helped had databases of 1,200 to
1,400 records. That would be a very time consuming process to do one at a
time.
Most small WISP's do not have the GIS skills or tools to deal with this
issue that major carriers already have on staff. Zip codes were easy because
it was already part of the information they had on hand. If possible there
should be a tool to address this issue which should increase the reporting
numbers from those who had participated in the past.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
214 Eggleston Hill Rd.
Cooperstown, NY 13326
(607) 643-4055 Office
(607) 435-3988 Mobile
(208) 692-1898 Fax
Skype: Radiowebst
www.wirelessmapping.com
  -Original Message-
  From: motor...@afmug.com [mailto:motor...@afmug.com]on Behalf Of Peter
Kranz
  Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 1:50 PM
  To: motor...@afmug.com
  Subject: RE: [Motorola II] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC
form 477 report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless


  Maybe they can keep making this report harder and harder to fill out so we
all just stop doing it..



  That report is a huge waste of my staffs time. And based on the underlying
edits and validations you can tell their system computes the census tracks
internally to verify it matches the one you provide. The system should
accept data in a way that is simple for a WISP to provide and derive the
census tracks, etc.. maybe then more people would provide the data.



  Peter Kranz
  Founder/CEO - UnwiredLtd
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

  From: motor...@afmug.com [mailto:motor...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
McCown
  Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:41 AM
  To: motor...@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [Motorola II] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC
form 477 report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless



  Brian,

  Could you find a list of the fixed wireless companies so we can all verify
we are on the list?



  From: Brian Webster

  Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:36 AM

  To: WISPA List ; memb...@wispa. org ; WISPA Board ; Motorla List Beehive

  Subject: [Motorola II] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC form
477 report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless



  The latest FCC report on form 477 broadband data is out
(http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296239A1.pdf). While
I don't see a whole lot of useful data in it, I do see where WISP's are
killing themselves and the industry, why?



a.. In the periods prior to the December 2008 report, fixed wireless has
shown a steady increase in subscribers. The last reporting period the number
of subscribers dropped from 808,000 to 488,000!!! That's a 39.6% drop in the
actual data that had been previously reported. Know I know that most of the
problem is the fact they now require census tract reporting rather than zip
codes, but dropping like this does not help the industry as a whole.
b.. Because of the low number of reported subscribers, the reporting by
technology portions of the report does not even earn fixed wireless a spot
on the charts in it's own category. It's lumped in with the 1.4% total of
all other technologies compared to the rest of the broadband industry. Hell
Satellite has their own category with .9%.
c.. The total number of fixed wireless providers reporting is 617. That
means there are a huge number of WISP's not filing form 477 and those that
didn't report must have a large number of subscribers. The previous period
where fixed wireless had 808,000 subscribers had only 505 WISP's report!
Matt Larsen and the WISP directory have around 1,800 WISP's registered. I've
heard other estimates between 2,000 and over 4,000. Only 617 fixed wireless
operators reporting is not helping the cause at all.
d.. The National broadband plan is being formulated as we speak, looking

Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[David Hulsebus]

I know my reporting was late last year, I remember others were as well; 
and maybe this report was obtained from data on the filing date and none 
of the late filing info was included. Don't know.

Dave

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Something has to be wrong with the data set.  I don't know of ANY WISPs that 
> have actually gone backward in the last year or two.
>
> It's very likely that the new reporting mechanism is messed up due to the 
> confusing new form etc.
>
> marlon
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: "WISPA List" ; "memb...@wispa. org" 
> ; "WISPA Board" ; "Motorla List Beehive" 
> 
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:36 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC form 477 
> reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless
>
>
>   
>> The latest FCC report on form 477 broadband data is out
>> (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296239A1.pdf). 
>> While
>> I don't see a whole lot of useful data in it, I do see where WISP's are
>> killing themselves and the industry, why?
>>
>>  a.. In the periods prior to the December 2008 report, fixed wireless has
>> shown a steady increase in subscribers. The last reporting period the 
>> number
>> of subscribers dropped from 808,000 to 488,000!!! That's a 39.6% drop in 
>> the
>> actual data that had been previously reported. Know I know that most of 
>> the
>> problem is the fact they now require census tract reporting rather than 
>> zip
>> codes, but dropping like this does not help the industry as a whole.
>>  b.. Because of the low number of reported subscribers, the reporting by
>> technology portions of the report does not even earn fixed wireless a spot
>> on the charts in it's own category. It's lumped in with the 1.4% total of
>> all other technologies compared to the rest of the broadband industry. 
>> Hell
>> Satellite has their own category with .9%.
>>  c.. The total number of fixed wireless providers reporting is 617. That
>> means there are a huge number of WISP's not filing form 477 and those that
>> didn't report must have a large number of subscribers. The previous period
>> where fixed wireless had 808,000 subscribers had only 505 WISP's report!
>> Matt Larsen and the WISP directory have around 1,800 WISP's registered. 
>> I've
>> heard other estimates between 2,000 and over 4,000. Only 617 fixed 
>> wireless
>> operators reporting is not helping the cause at all.
>>  d.. The National broadband plan is being formulated as we speak, looking
>> at those statistics it appears the WISP industry is in a serious decline 
>> and
>> that as a total percentage of broadband provided to consumers nationally,
>> they make no significant difference.
>> If you were a government policy maker, would you even pay attention to
>> WISP's. I certainly would not. They have to make decisions based on data 
>> and
>> that benefit the majority of the country. WISP's have thumbed their noses 
>> at
>> providing this data for years. I think it is really going to bite them in
>> the butt now. Fiber to the home is coming liking it or not. USF reform is
>> coming like it or not. USF reform is going to subsidize broadband to the
>> very markets wireless serves more economically today. Removing that
>> advantage is going to put the WISP industry in serious trouble.
>>
>> The manufacturers are killing themselves as well. In their quest to just
>> sell radios, they have missed the importance of keeping the industry
>> healthy. If the WISP's cannot compete and/or show that they are a
>> significant option to the overall broadband infrastructure in the US, how
>> will they continue to sell product. If anyone knows the true number of
>> WISP's out there it is the manufacturers. They should be leading the 
>> charge
>> with groups like WISPA to make sure ALL WISP's stand up and get counted. 
>> How
>> hard would it be to stuff each shipment with educational material on the
>> importance of filing form 477?
>>
>> The current FCC is very open minded but the results of this type of report
>> force them to make decisions that benefit the most people. 488,000 is a 
>> very
>> small portion of over 129 million homes.
>>
>> All I can say is ouch
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
>> 
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscri

Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Something has to be wrong with the data set.  I don't know of ANY WISPs that 
have actually gone backward in the last year or two.

It's very likely that the new reporting mechanism is messed up due to the 
confusing new form etc.

marlon


- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Webster" 
To: "WISPA List" ; "memb...@wispa. org" 
; "WISPA Board" ; "Motorla List Beehive" 

Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:36 AM
Subject: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC form 477 
reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless


> The latest FCC report on form 477 broadband data is out
> (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296239A1.pdf). 
> While
> I don't see a whole lot of useful data in it, I do see where WISP's are
> killing themselves and the industry, why?
>
>  a.. In the periods prior to the December 2008 report, fixed wireless has
> shown a steady increase in subscribers. The last reporting period the 
> number
> of subscribers dropped from 808,000 to 488,000!!! That's a 39.6% drop in 
> the
> actual data that had been previously reported. Know I know that most of 
> the
> problem is the fact they now require census tract reporting rather than 
> zip
> codes, but dropping like this does not help the industry as a whole.
>  b.. Because of the low number of reported subscribers, the reporting by
> technology portions of the report does not even earn fixed wireless a spot
> on the charts in it's own category. It's lumped in with the 1.4% total of
> all other technologies compared to the rest of the broadband industry. 
> Hell
> Satellite has their own category with .9%.
>  c.. The total number of fixed wireless providers reporting is 617. That
> means there are a huge number of WISP's not filing form 477 and those that
> didn't report must have a large number of subscribers. The previous period
> where fixed wireless had 808,000 subscribers had only 505 WISP's report!
> Matt Larsen and the WISP directory have around 1,800 WISP's registered. 
> I've
> heard other estimates between 2,000 and over 4,000. Only 617 fixed 
> wireless
> operators reporting is not helping the cause at all.
>  d.. The National broadband plan is being formulated as we speak, looking
> at those statistics it appears the WISP industry is in a serious decline 
> and
> that as a total percentage of broadband provided to consumers nationally,
> they make no significant difference.
> If you were a government policy maker, would you even pay attention to
> WISP's. I certainly would not. They have to make decisions based on data 
> and
> that benefit the majority of the country. WISP's have thumbed their noses 
> at
> providing this data for years. I think it is really going to bite them in
> the butt now. Fiber to the home is coming liking it or not. USF reform is
> coming like it or not. USF reform is going to subsidize broadband to the
> very markets wireless serves more economically today. Removing that
> advantage is going to put the WISP industry in serious trouble.
>
> The manufacturers are killing themselves as well. In their quest to just
> sell radios, they have missed the importance of keeping the industry
> healthy. If the WISP's cannot compete and/or show that they are a
> significant option to the overall broadband infrastructure in the US, how
> will they continue to sell product. If anyone knows the true number of
> WISP's out there it is the manufacturers. They should be leading the 
> charge
> with groups like WISPA to make sure ALL WISP's stand up and get counted. 
> How
> hard would it be to stuff each shipment with educational material on the
> importance of filing form 477?
>
> The current FCC is very open minded but the results of this type of report
> force them to make decisions that benefit the most people. 488,000 is a 
> very
> small portion of over 129 million homes.
>
> All I can say is ouch
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] UBNT NS2

[Michael Baird]

Ubiquity has had problems with their CCQ calculations over time, one 
that that normally will help is limiting the maximum speed.

Regards
Michael Baird
> CCQ is relatively useless without a lot of traffic moving thru it.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com
> http://www.shelbybb.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:20 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT NS2
>
> Same here. I just tweak the power settings until the speed tests get
> the best results. I do notice that the CCQ usually comes up after a
> while.
> -RickG
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Josh Luthman
>  wrote:
>   
>> I've always ignored CCQ.  I have found no rhyme or reason when comparing it
>> to the speed tests or latency to the CPEs.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
>> that counts."
>> --- Winston Churchill
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Steve Barnes  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I need some advise,  I have been using Tranzeo's for years and have some
>>> peers that really like the UBNT products so I have picked up a bunch of NS2,
>>> NS2loco, and Power Station's.  I have had some great results here at first
>>> and my installers love them.
>>>
>>> HOWEVER, the more I watch them the more, I am concerned. I use all MT 411AH
>>> with XR2 radios at my AP's. I have a AP with 16 clients, 14 Tranzeo CPQ and
>>> 2 NS2. The NS2 (latest install) -55 at radio -69 at tower, the client is 1.9
>>> miles so I set the Mileage @ 2. The client works fine 3 meg down and 1 meg
>>> up just as my Queues are set. However, the CCQ at tower for that client is
>>> 55tx/72rx. The overall CCQ on the tower when I do speed test to the Tranzeos
>>> never falls below 95 but to the UBNT it falls to 75. I have NEVER seen
>>> better than a 80/90 CCQ on any of the NS2 or loco.  The power stations are
>>> great.
>>>
>>> Is there a config I'm missing. My AP's are all at 10Mhz channels I set the
>>> RTS to 512 like I do the Tranzeo's. Rate Algorithm to Optimistic, Allow all
>>> multicast data.
>>>
>>> What else, What am I doing that I should change on the UBNT.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Barnes
>>> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [WISPA] UBNT NS2

[Chuck Hogg]

CCQ is relatively useless without a lot of traffic moving thru it.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT NS2

Same here. I just tweak the power settings until the speed tests get
the best results. I do notice that the CCQ usually comes up after a
while.
-RickG

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> I've always ignored CCQ.  I have found no rhyme or reason when comparing it
> to the speed tests or latency to the CPEs.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts."
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Steve Barnes  wrote:
>
>> I need some advise,  I have been using Tranzeo's for years and have some
>> peers that really like the UBNT products so I have picked up a bunch of NS2,
>> NS2loco, and Power Station's.  I have had some great results here at first
>> and my installers love them.
>>
>> HOWEVER, the more I watch them the more, I am concerned. I use all MT 411AH
>> with XR2 radios at my AP's. I have a AP with 16 clients, 14 Tranzeo CPQ and
>> 2 NS2. The NS2 (latest install) -55 at radio -69 at tower, the client is 1.9
>> miles so I set the Mileage @ 2. The client works fine 3 meg down and 1 meg
>> up just as my Queues are set. However, the CCQ at tower for that client is
>> 55tx/72rx. The overall CCQ on the tower when I do speed test to the Tranzeos
>> never falls below 95 but to the UBNT it falls to 75. I have NEVER seen
>> better than a 80/90 CCQ on any of the NS2 or loco.  The power stations are
>> great.
>>
>> Is there a config I'm missing. My AP's are all at 10Mhz channels I set the
>> RTS to 512 like I do the Tranzeo's. Rate Algorithm to Optimistic, Allow all
>> multicast data.
>>
>> What else, What am I doing that I should change on the UBNT.
>>
>>
>> Steve Barnes
>> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Found Great VLAN switch

[David E. Smith]

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 13:40, Glenn Kelley  wrote:

> I thought the 5424 did not support Jumbo Frames (could be wrong - so kinda
> asking)
>

It does. Just add a "port jumbo-frame" to the configuration.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] Found Great VLAN switch

[Glenn Kelley]

I thought the 5424 did not support Jumbo Frames (could be wrong - so kinda 
asking) 

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 15, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Jeremy Parr wrote:

> On 15 February 2010 05:22, Tom DeReggi  wrote:
>> There was recently a thread on recommended VLAN switches. Such as which did
>> both TX&RX simultaneous port mirroring, Full VLAN support, Ability to LABEL
>> ports, etc.
>> 
>> I found out that DELL powerconnec thas the solution that does it all for
>> GIGABIT (24Gig + 4SFP).
>> 
>> The model 5424 is the current version, that also support IPv6, QinQ,
>> MSTP,SNMP3. (On sale for $600
>> The old model 5324 also does it all, but with only IPv4, RSTP, and SNMP2.
>> 
>> The 802.11Q VLAN implementation is complete and full..
> 
> These do work well. I don't have any major complaints about the
> handfull I have deployed. We use em for cheap iSCSI deployments.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] UBNT NS2

[RickG]

Same here. I just tweak the power settings until the speed tests get
the best results. I do notice that the CCQ usually comes up after a
while.
-RickG

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> I've always ignored CCQ.  I have found no rhyme or reason when comparing it
> to the speed tests or latency to the CPEs.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
> that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Steve Barnes  wrote:
>
>> I need some advise,  I have been using Tranzeo's for years and have some
>> peers that really like the UBNT products so I have picked up a bunch of NS2,
>> NS2loco, and Power Station's.  I have had some great results here at first
>> and my installers love them.
>>
>> HOWEVER, the more I watch them the more, I am concerned. I use all MT 411AH
>> with XR2 radios at my AP's. I have a AP with 16 clients, 14 Tranzeo CPQ and
>> 2 NS2. The NS2 (latest install) -55 at radio -69 at tower, the client is 1.9
>> miles so I set the Mileage @ 2. The client works fine 3 meg down and 1 meg
>> up just as my Queues are set. However, the CCQ at tower for that client is
>> 55tx/72rx. The overall CCQ on the tower when I do speed test to the Tranzeos
>> never falls below 95 but to the UBNT it falls to 75. I have NEVER seen
>> better than a 80/90 CCQ on any of the NS2 or loco.  The power stations are
>> great.
>>
>> Is there a config I'm missing. My AP's are all at 10Mhz channels I set the
>> RTS to 512 like I do the Tranzeo's. Rate Algorithm to Optimistic, Allow all
>> multicast data.
>>
>> What else, What am I doing that I should change on the UBNT.
>>
>>
>> Steve Barnes
>> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Patrick Leary]

Brian,

I do agree it is regrettable that the majority of WISPs do not report,
and that there is a sort of "reap what you sow" sort of effect. The WISP
industry is too often its own worst enemy. I would disagree about the
comment regarding vendors though. Not only is it not our responsibility
to brow beat WISP customers (and we have no means to compel them anyway)
to fulfill their obligation to file 477, most vendors (Aperto excluded
as a rare exception) are not based in the US. You cannot expect vendors
to monitor the requirements imposed on their customers in all the
regulatory domains around the world. We can and do try to pay attention
to all the regs and rules as they pertain to us, and that burden is
large enough.

In any event, vendors are no more responsible for WISPs filing their
477s than car manufacturers are responsible for drivers keeping their
drivers licenses current. As individuals, some of us have beaten the 477
drum to death though; I know I did years ago when the obligation first
arose and again when it was made mandatory for all broadband providers,
regardless of numbers of customers (a move by the FCC I think intended
to try to capture the cumulative numbers of small WISPs, for WISPs
ultimate benefit and so the FCC could justify creating rules in our
favor).


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:37 AM
To: WISPA List; memb...@wispa. org; WISPA Board; Motorla List Beehive
Subject: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves - New FCC form 477
reportis out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless
Importance: High

The latest FCC report on form 477 broadband data is out
(http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296239A1.pdf).
While I don't see a whole lot of useful data in it, I do see where
WISP's are killing themselves and the industry, why?

  a.. In the periods prior to the December 2008 report, fixed wireless
has shown a steady increase in subscribers. The last reporting period
the number of subscribers dropped from 808,000 to 488,000!!! That's a
39.6% drop in the actual data that had been previously reported. Know I
know that most of the problem is the fact they now require census tract
reporting rather than zip codes, but dropping like this does not help
the industry as a whole.
  b.. Because of the low number of reported subscribers, the reporting
by technology portions of the report does not even earn fixed wireless a
spot on the charts in it's own category. It's lumped in with the 1.4%
total of all other technologies compared to the rest of the broadband
industry. Hell Satellite has their own category with .9%.
  c.. The total number of fixed wireless providers reporting is 617.
That means there are a huge number of WISP's not filing form 477 and
those that didn't report must have a large number of subscribers. The
previous period where fixed wireless had 808,000 subscribers had only
505 WISP's report!
Matt Larsen and the WISP directory have around 1,800 WISP's registered.
I've heard other estimates between 2,000 and over 4,000. Only 617 fixed
wireless operators reporting is not helping the cause at all.
  d.. The National broadband plan is being formulated as we speak,
looking at those statistics it appears the WISP industry is in a serious
decline and that as a total percentage of broadband provided to
consumers nationally, they make no significant difference.
If you were a government policy maker, would you even pay attention to
WISP's. I certainly would not. They have to make decisions based on data
and that benefit the majority of the country. WISP's have thumbed their
noses at providing this data for years. I think it is really going to
bite them in the butt now. Fiber to the home is coming liking it or not.
USF reform is coming like it or not. USF reform is going to subsidize
broadband to the very markets wireless serves more economically today.
Removing that advantage is going to put the WISP industry in serious
trouble.

The manufacturers are killing themselves as well. In their quest to just
sell radios, they have missed the importance of keeping the industry
healthy. If the WISP's cannot compete and/or show that they are a
significant option to the overall broadband infrastructure in the US,
how will they continue to sell product. If anyone knows the true number
of WISP's out there it is the manufacturers. They should be leading the
charge with groups like WISPA to make sure ALL WISP's stand up and get
counted. How hard would it be to stuff each shipment with educational
material on the importance of filing form 477?

The current FCC is very open minded but the results of this type of
report force them to make decisions that benefit the most people.
488,000 is a very small portion of over 129 million homes.

All I can say is ouch


Thank You,
Brian Webster

[WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Brian Webster]

The latest FCC report on form 477 broadband data is out
(http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296239A1.pdf). While
I don't see a whole lot of useful data in it, I do see where WISP's are
killing themselves and the industry, why?

  a.. In the periods prior to the December 2008 report, fixed wireless has
shown a steady increase in subscribers. The last reporting period the number
of subscribers dropped from 808,000 to 488,000!!! That's a 39.6% drop in the
actual data that had been previously reported. Know I know that most of the
problem is the fact they now require census tract reporting rather than zip
codes, but dropping like this does not help the industry as a whole.
  b.. Because of the low number of reported subscribers, the reporting by
technology portions of the report does not even earn fixed wireless a spot
on the charts in it's own category. It's lumped in with the 1.4% total of
all other technologies compared to the rest of the broadband industry. Hell
Satellite has their own category with .9%.
  c.. The total number of fixed wireless providers reporting is 617. That
means there are a huge number of WISP's not filing form 477 and those that
didn't report must have a large number of subscribers. The previous period
where fixed wireless had 808,000 subscribers had only 505 WISP's report!
Matt Larsen and the WISP directory have around 1,800 WISP's registered. I've
heard other estimates between 2,000 and over 4,000. Only 617 fixed wireless
operators reporting is not helping the cause at all.
  d.. The National broadband plan is being formulated as we speak, looking
at those statistics it appears the WISP industry is in a serious decline and
that as a total percentage of broadband provided to consumers nationally,
they make no significant difference.
If you were a government policy maker, would you even pay attention to
WISP's. I certainly would not. They have to make decisions based on data and
that benefit the majority of the country. WISP's have thumbed their noses at
providing this data for years. I think it is really going to bite them in
the butt now. Fiber to the home is coming liking it or not. USF reform is
coming like it or not. USF reform is going to subsidize broadband to the
very markets wireless serves more economically today. Removing that
advantage is going to put the WISP industry in serious trouble.

The manufacturers are killing themselves as well. In their quest to just
sell radios, they have missed the importance of keeping the industry
healthy. If the WISP's cannot compete and/or show that they are a
significant option to the overall broadband infrastructure in the US, how
will they continue to sell product. If anyone knows the true number of
WISP's out there it is the manufacturers. They should be leading the charge
with groups like WISPA to make sure ALL WISP's stand up and get counted. How
hard would it be to stuff each shipment with educational material on the
importance of filing form 477?

The current FCC is very open minded but the results of this type of report
force them to make decisions that benefit the most people. 488,000 is a very
small portion of over 129 million homes.

All I can say is ouch


Thank You,
Brian Webster





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[WISPA] Looking for DragonWave Air-Pair cables and feedback...

[Brad Belton]

Hello,

We've inherited a DragonWave Air-Pair radio set and I'm looking for any
feedback from those that have deployed these.  The good, bad and ugly.

We'll probably need new cable sets for each end as well, so to any
DragonWave vendors on the list please feel free to send me an email with
prices on cable length options.

I sure hope their new Horizon radios don't require these BS proprietary
cables like the Air-Pair radios.  What a pain in the tail...

Thanks!


Brad





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Re: [WISPA] UBNT NS2

[Josh Luthman]

I've always ignored CCQ.  I have found no rhyme or reason when comparing it
to the speed tests or latency to the CPEs.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts.”
--- Winston Churchill


On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Steve Barnes  wrote:

> I need some advise,  I have been using Tranzeo's for years and have some
> peers that really like the UBNT products so I have picked up a bunch of NS2,
> NS2loco, and Power Station's.  I have had some great results here at first
> and my installers love them.
>
> HOWEVER, the more I watch them the more, I am concerned. I use all MT 411AH
> with XR2 radios at my AP's. I have a AP with 16 clients, 14 Tranzeo CPQ and
> 2 NS2. The NS2 (latest install) -55 at radio -69 at tower, the client is 1.9
> miles so I set the Mileage @ 2. The client works fine 3 meg down and 1 meg
> up just as my Queues are set. However, the CCQ at tower for that client is
> 55tx/72rx. The overall CCQ on the tower when I do speed test to the Tranzeos
> never falls below 95 but to the UBNT it falls to 75. I have NEVER seen
> better than a 80/90 CCQ on any of the NS2 or loco.  The power stations are
> great.
>
> Is there a config I'm missing. My AP's are all at 10Mhz channels I set the
> RTS to 512 like I do the Tranzeo's. Rate Algorithm to Optimistic, Allow all
> multicast data.
>
> What else, What am I doing that I should change on the UBNT.
>
>
> Steve Barnes
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>



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[WISPA] UBNT NS2

[Steve Barnes]

I need some advise,  I have been using Tranzeo's for years and have some peers 
that really like the UBNT products so I have picked up a bunch of NS2, NS2loco, 
and Power Station's.  I have had some great results here at first and my 
installers love them.

HOWEVER, the more I watch them the more, I am concerned. I use all MT 411AH 
with XR2 radios at my AP's. I have a AP with 16 clients, 14 Tranzeo CPQ and 2 
NS2. The NS2 (latest install) -55 at radio -69 at tower, the client is 1.9 
miles so I set the Mileage @ 2. The client works fine 3 meg down and 1 meg up 
just as my Queues are set. However, the CCQ at tower for that client is 
55tx/72rx. The overall CCQ on the tower when I do speed test to the Tranzeos 
never falls below 95 but to the UBNT it falls to 75. I have NEVER seen better 
than a 80/90 CCQ on any of the NS2 or loco.  The power stations are great.

Is there a config I'm missing. My AP's are all at 10Mhz channels I set the RTS 
to 512 like I do the Tranzeo's. Rate Algorithm to Optimistic, Allow all 
multicast data.

What else, What am I doing that I should change on the UBNT.


Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



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[WISPA] Best Practices for WiFi/Mikrotik deployment

[Paul Gerstenberger]

Now that I grok OSPF (yeah, not really), I must now move on to everything 
else...

We're rolling out our first WiFi based system (Wavion Beam-forming) with 
Mikrotik routers on the backend. I have ideas how I can set it up, but before I 
get started down my own path I'm hoping to glean some wisdom from some who have 
been here before.

Overall, we have about 1000 wireless customers. We have about 500 public IPs to 
support the WISP operation, I have a new /24 block for this new setup and as I 
free up (most of) the old /24 I can move them over to the Mikrotik.

For the simpler example, I'll have a new site that backhauls over fiber to the 
RB1000 at our main office. The Wavion gear supports a management vlan, and 
vlan-per-ssid. All the standard WiFi AP features I'm sure (for the price, it 
better). The possibly more complex example would be adding an AP to a 
"repeater" site that backhauls off another existing wireless site (Trango) and 
will probably need a routerboard locally.

To date, we have been running NAT in our core router for the bulk of our 
customers, assigning static public IPs as needed (the issue is almost always 
the NAT, not the dynamic IP).

Given that info, how would you recommend configuring the mikrotik and the APs? 
I tend to make things more complex than they need to be. Questions that pop 
into my head: Can/should I run hotspot and PPPoE over the same SSID? Should I 
set my first PPPoE pool to hand out publics and overflow to NAT privates, or 
should I had out NAT addresses and assign publics as requested? How does IP 
assignment work between VLANs so as to prevent conflicts. I would be 
configuring a PPPoE server per-vlan right? What is a good methodology to 
assigning addresses for CPE management? What are issues you have encountered 
along the way that I should be on the watch for?

- Paul



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Re: [WISPA] Found Great VLAN switch

[Jeremy Parr]

On 15 February 2010 05:22, Tom DeReggi  wrote:
> There was recently a thread on recommended VLAN switches. Such as which did
> both TX&RX simultaneous port mirroring, Full VLAN support, Ability to LABEL
> ports, etc.
>
> I found out that DELL powerconnec thas the solution that does it all for
> GIGABIT (24Gig + 4SFP).
>
> The model 5424 is the current version, that also support IPv6, QinQ,
> MSTP,SNMP3. (On sale for $600
> The old model 5324 also does it all, but with only IPv4, RSTP, and SNMP2.
>
> The 802.11Q VLAN implementation is complete and full..

These do work well. I don't have any major complaints about the
handfull I have deployed. We use em for cheap iSCSI deployments.



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Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents

[Scottie Arnett]

"in the contract the people sign for service it clearly states
over usage is not permitted, server setup is not permitted and include file 
sharing out to the internet."

If all providers did this, then your support for bittorrent is fruitless. It 
would not work. It depends on people uploading(out to the internet) the "bits" 
to function. You are supporting the concept but not supporting the application 
on your network. Our TOS addresses servers also, but I still allow the torrents 
to work, but at much slower than normal traffic.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "Eje Gustafsson" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:23:48 -0600

>Absolutely. Why we ourselves don't sell our service as a unlimited service.
>Nowhere do we ever say unlimited in our marketing material or other
>material, and in the contract the people sign for service it clearly states
>over usage is not permitted, server setup is not permitted and include file
>sharing out to the internet. There is even on the last page a table where
>all important information such as bandwidth allotment, # of e-mail accounts,
>monthly cap limits as well charge per GB over usage is denoted by hand
>depending on service level purchased. 
>We say we will charge you $5/GB over your monthly 10GB limit. But we have
>never charged this at this point. We have people going way over 10GB but
>they have not created any issues on our network. 
>
>No don't believe in unlimited internet and will not be like the mobile
>broadband providers calling their service unlimited but in small print you
>can read it's not unlimited and that they can charge or cancel your service
>for over usage. But reason they call it unlimited is because they have their
>limited plans that offer say 500MB or 5GB then their unlimited (which really
>isn't unlimited) I am still amazed that FTC have not slapped them on their
>hands for this IMO false advertisement. But I guess it comes down to it
>affects so very few people that for most people it really seems "unlimited".
>
>/ Eje
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of RickG
>Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:56 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents
>
>Eje,
>
>I always respect your opinons but let me play "devils advocate". I
>agree file-sharing is being forced down ISP's throats, so we have to
>deal with it. Many compare ISPs to utilities. I come from a background
>working for and with electric companies. If you overload their network
>you will be cut off and fined.
>
>-RickG
>
>On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Eje Gustafsson  wrote:
>> Not sure about that. Depending on whoms statistics you believe it can be
>> anywhere from about 5% to about 30%. Do we count the people used it in the
>> last x days. How many computers that have the software installed on them.
>> According to stats 2008 17% of US computers had Limewire installed on
>them.
>> uTorrent only 2.1%. But just because application is installed don't mean
>> it's used or frequently used.
>> Over 35% of internet traffic is fileshare application vs only 32% that is
>> web traffic. If we believe RIAA then the base and usage is way higher. I
>> wouldn't put much behind that 8% figure without knowing how they came to
>> that conclusion.
>> So fileshare usage in US is somewhere between 5% and 25% of all
>> computers/household more bandwidth is being used by fileshare traffic then
>> regular web traffic.
>>
>> Good QoS, traffic shaping and prioritizing means issue becoming less of an
>> issue or even a non issue same goes even without file sharing. Just
>because
>> it's a problem for the ISP we cannot just block it and pretend it don't
>> exists. It would be like a city claiming that we do not have a traffic
>> congestion system people just need to not drive as much or share a ride.
>We
>> don't need more traffic lanes or better traffic control.
>> Provide enough bandwidth on the AP, backhaul and upstream feed. Shape the
>> traffic for maximum user experience and everyone is happy.
>>
>> / Eje
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:54 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents
>>
>> 8% of Swedes do peer to peer.  I would expect the American population to
>> have a smaller figure.  Regardless, can we not agree it's a small figure?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
>> that counts."
>> --- Winston Churchill
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Philip Dorr
>> wrote:
>>
>>> May not be mainstream, but is a decent percentage.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7978853.stm
>>>
>>> On Sun, Fe

Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents

[Eje Gustafsson]

And do you believe the same goes for Open source applications? There are
more open source being distributed this way then where large for profit
companies use it for distribution. 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:43 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents

I think you said it best here:

>Some
> of these downloads are extremely large and difficult to host and
distribute
> of a traditional server because once a large update is released you will
> have tens of thousands people that will download said update within hours.
> Support nightmare to try to get everyone go to a mirror webpage and
> download
> a separate installer with no automatic and slow download speeds.

So as an ISP we should get clobbered with connections and network issues on
our wireless network to take care of the budgets of all these legal places?
Most of these make 10X the profit I do in a year, let them figure out a
better way. Afterall, the customer is wanting their content.

I limit the crap out of torrents. It is a poorly implemented application for
most networks...for wireless networks for sure. I don't care if the
government wants to distribute welfare checks across torrents on my network.
It will work, although slowly. If the government want's to tell me how I can
control my network and makes it law, I will do something else. I am not
trading the big corp software support problem for my own at 10X the less
profit. Hell, I was squirrel hunting when I started my ISP and I still got a
pocket full of shells.

Scottie

Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
$30.00/mth.
Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.




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Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik] bittorrents

[Scottie Arnett]

I think you said it best here:

>Some
> of these downloads are extremely large and difficult to host and
distribute
> of a traditional server because once a large update is released you will
> have tens of thousands people that will download said update within hours.
> Support nightmare to try to get everyone go to a mirror webpage and
> download
> a separate installer with no automatic and slow download speeds.

So as an ISP we should get clobbered with connections and network issues on our 
wireless network to take care of the budgets of all these legal places? Most of 
these make 10X the profit I do in a year, let them figure out a better way. 
Afterall, the customer is wanting their content.

I limit the crap out of torrents. It is a poorly implemented application for 
most networks...for wireless networks for sure. I don't care if the government 
wants to distribute welfare checks across torrents on my network. It will work, 
although slowly. If the government want's to tell me how I can control my 
network and makes it law, I will do something else. I am not trading the big 
corp software support problem for my own at 10X the less profit. Hell, I was 
squirrel hunting when I started my ISP and I still got a pocket full of shells.

Scottie

Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth.
Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.



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Re: [WISPA] Found Great VLAN switch

[Brad Belton]

Agreed.  The Dell 28xx Series is also great value.  They work really well
for breaking off VLANs from a RouterBoard where we don't have rack space
available to us.  We trust our datacenter with stacked 6248 switches.  The
Dell PoE switches are also great.   

>From a management point of view it's nice to have almost the exact same
interface from $200 to $2000.

Best,


Brad

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 4:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Found Great VLAN switch

There was recently a thread on recommended VLAN switches. Such as which did 
both TX&RX simultaneous port mirroring, Full VLAN support, Ability to LABEL 
ports, etc.

I found out that DELL powerconnec thas the solution that does it all for 
GIGABIT (24Gig + 4SFP).

The model 5424 is the current version, that also support IPv6, QinQ, 
MSTP,SNMP3. (On sale for $600
The old model 5324 also does it all, but with only IPv4, RSTP, and SNMP2.

The 802.11Q VLAN implementation is complete and full..

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband 





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Re: [WISPA] Found Great VLAN switch

[can...@believewireless.net]

We've always used the Dell PowerConnect switches in our network and
they have been very reliable even in non-temperature regulated
environments.



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[WISPA] Found Great VLAN switch

[Tom DeReggi]

There was recently a thread on recommended VLAN switches. Such as which did 
both TX&RX simultaneous port mirroring, Full VLAN support, Ability to LABEL 
ports, etc.

I found out that DELL powerconnec thas the solution that does it all for 
GIGABIT (24Gig + 4SFP).

The model 5424 is the current version, that also support IPv6, QinQ, 
MSTP,SNMP3. (On sale for $600
The old model 5324 also does it all, but with only IPv4, RSTP, and SNMP2.

The 802.11Q VLAN implementation is complete and full..

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband 




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