Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
So what's the latest with this? We essentially have an IPTV headend running in the shop. It's nice being able to sit in my office and work on the computer, while watching TV streamed over the LAN. But that doesn't make much money. At the UBNT AirMax conference they said they're doing IPTV over the new M stuff. But... I still run into that little issue of 6Mbps multicast rates. On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 9:56 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. What exactly are you referring to? On the older 802.11a/b/g devices I see Multicast Rate. But on the Rocket/Bullet/Nano N-series (M series) I don't see Multicast Rate, just Allow all Yup the M's I have do not allow you to set a fixed rate. I should have been clearer in that I meant that the AirMax stuff was different then the AirOS stuff. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
To this day I've heard of countless people that do it to compete (the triple bundle) but none that make any money. 6mbps multicast...per active channel. Usually it happens in such a way that if someone starts watching a channels 20-25 the channel will multicast through the network up until no one is watching it for ~5 minutes. Super bandwidth hog. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: So what's the latest with this? We essentially have an IPTV headend running in the shop. It's nice being able to sit in my office and work on the computer, while watching TV streamed over the LAN. But that doesn't make much money. At the UBNT AirMax conference they said they're doing IPTV over the new M stuff. But... I still run into that little issue of 6Mbps multicast rates. On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 9:56 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. What exactly are you referring to? On the older 802.11a/b/g devices I see Multicast Rate. But on the Rocket/Bullet/Nano N-series (M series) I don't see Multicast Rate, just Allow all Yup the M's I have do not allow you to set a fixed rate. I should have been clearer in that I meant that the AirMax stuff was different then the AirOS stuff. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Probably would not be profitable for us, either, in all actuality. We'd like to just offer some basic channels. Maybe 30 or 40. For those people who really just want basic TV Networks, Disney, ESPN, etc. But I think the programmers would force you to carry all their other stupid channels. *shrug* On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: To this day I've heard of countless people that do it to compete (the triple bundle) but none that make any money. 6mbps multicast...per active channel. Usually it happens in such a way that if someone starts watching a channels 20-25 the channel will multicast through the network up until no one is watching it for ~5 minutes. Super bandwidth hog. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: So what's the latest with this? We essentially have an IPTV headend running in the shop. It's nice being able to sit in my office and work on the computer, while watching TV streamed over the LAN. But that doesn't make much money. At the UBNT AirMax conference they said they're doing IPTV over the new M stuff. But... I still run into that little issue of 6Mbps multicast rates. On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 9:56 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. What exactly are you referring to? On the older 802.11a/b/g devices I see Multicast Rate. But on the Rocket/Bullet/Nano N-series (M series) I don't see Multicast Rate, just Allow all Yup the M's I have do not allow you to set a fixed rate. I should have been clearer in that I meant that the AirMax stuff was different then the AirOS stuff. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Out of idle curiosity, have any of you IPTV folks priced CableCARDs? There's a certain appeal in having customers provide their own equipment. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
CableCARD's don't accept Ethernet...? On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:11 AM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: Out of idle curiosity, have any of you IPTV folks priced CableCARDs? There's a certain appeal in having customers provide their own equipment. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 09:49, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: CableCARD's don't accept Ethernet...? I was assuming using IP as a convenient way to deliver TV, as in a fiber deployment (where the end-user only sees coax). David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Jayson Baker wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. What exactly are you referring to? On the older 802.11a/b/g devices I see Multicast Rate. But on the Rocket/Bullet/Nano N-series (M series) I don't see Multicast Rate, just Allow all Yup the M's I have do not allow you to set a fixed rate. I should have been clearer in that I meant that the AirMax stuff was different then the AirOS stuff. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Tonight we spent a few more hours on this project. We're now streaming live satellite TV programming via multicast over our network. Unencrypted, and only MPEG 2 for now. The stream is about 6Mbps. It's going over a wireless backhaul, and into a UBNT AirMax system. It's being received over the AirMax system, but not being decoded properly. Not sure if it's the AirMax, or this laptop that's the issue. Leaning towards the laptop. When on the same network as the streambox the feed looks great, time-shift works perfect. We're using a PIII 933MHz machine with 1GB of RAM. It was laying around I will investigate more soon as to why it's not working via the AirMax. I'll also try to get the MPEG 4 codec situated on the encoder. I did find out from Amino that their STB's should work without 3rd party middleware. Basically, they have embedded browsers--point to your HTML server, which has pages to streams. You could fashion up your own guide and program info, etc. This would work especially well if you're not broadcasting networks with requirements, but just OTA. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: So we're looking at $25k for the hardware to do an MPEG-4 H.264 IPTV system for up to 100 channels? Remaining items needed (or desired): 1) Middleware (Minerva) 2) Licensing (only your past seems to indicate that this can be done) 3) VoD 4) Content stream from Avail or Echostar Missing anything? Costs for the others? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Can you describe your setup a little more. Like what you are using for software and stuff? I too have a project where this may be useful. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:29 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Tonight we spent a few more hours on this project. We're now streaming live satellite TV programming via multicast over our network. Unencrypted, and only MPEG 2 for now. The stream is about 6Mbps. It's going over a wireless backhaul, and into a UBNT AirMax system. It's being received over the AirMax system, but not being decoded properly. Not sure if it's the AirMax, or this laptop that's the issue. Leaning towards the laptop. When on the same network as the streambox the feed looks great, time-shift works perfect. We're using a PIII 933MHz machine with 1GB of RAM. It was laying around I will investigate more soon as to why it's not working via the AirMax. I'll also try to get the MPEG 4 codec situated on the encoder. I did find out from Amino that their STB's should work without 3rd party middleware. Basically, they have embedded browsers--point to your HTML server, which has pages to streams. You could fashion up your own guide and program info, etc. This would work especially well if you're not broadcasting networks with requirements, but just OTA. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: So we're looking at $25k for the hardware to do an MPEG-4 H.264 IPTV system for up to 100 channels? Remaining items needed (or desired): 1) Middleware (Minerva) 2) Licensing (only your past seems to indicate that this can be done) 3) VoD 4) Content stream from Avail or Echostar Missing anything? Costs for the others? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
So we're looking at $25k for the hardware to do an MPEG-4 H.264 IPTV system for up to 100 channels? Remaining items needed (or desired): 1) Middleware (Minerva) 2) Licensing (only your past seems to indicate that this can be done) 3) VoD 4) Content stream from Avail or Echostar Missing anything? Costs for the others? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
The biggest ones are getting the rights to the content, and getting the content. I don't remember what we paid for Mineva. Before that, we used Espial ( http://www.espial.com/) Might want to check them out. No idea what they're cost is now either. I've never worked with any VoD content. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: So we're looking at $25k for the hardware to do an MPEG-4 H.264 IPTV system for up to 100 channels? Remaining items needed (or desired): 1) Middleware (Minerva) 2) Licensing (only your past seems to indicate that this can be done) 3) VoD 4) Content stream from Avail or Echostar Missing anything? Costs for the others? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
We got OK to do it over MT equipment in unlicensed bands. Their concern was that A) they didn't want it going over any sort of public network (i.e. WiFi Hotspot) and B) encryption remained in-tact from the headend to the STB. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Blake Covarrubias bl...@beamspeed.comwrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
That seams reasonable. Did I understand you correctly earlier in that you can not talk about the license process due to NDA, or due to not being directly involved? I will be contacting Avail Media and checking into their offerings. Jayson Baker wrote: We got OK to do it over MT equipment in unlicensed bands. Their concern was that A) they didn't want it going over any sort of public network (i.e. WiFi Hotspot) and B) encryption remained in-tact from the headend to the STB. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Blake Covarrubias bl...@beamspeed.comwrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
A couple racks of equipment to provide a couple hundred channels and enough VoD just takes money. Usually when you want one channel from a content provider, they make you offer them all. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:50 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Companies like Avail and EchoStar (there has been some consolidation) provide the raw streams. Organizations like NRTC (and maybe EchoStar) do the licensing. There were others, but they didn't have a very good HD channel lineup. Trust me, I would love to find a way to do this without $500k and legally on wireless. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:53 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? You have to spend a lot of money getting the rights from the channels - this is painful. An alternative is to resell service from a company that already has this. I believe you must use the feed from that particular company, but I could be wrong. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:50 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
?There is no way they can make you take them all, i know of hundreds of CATV systems that only have ONE non OTA channel in order to qualify as CATV and charge in the 25~35 range. Check the FCC CATV DB and you can locate them too. I do not want hundreds of channels or VoD right now. Also, you cna get 32 channel ASI cards for about $1000, and a ASIIP box for about $2000. I am looking at other methods of providing the IP stream, preferably to purchase it directly. Then the headend becomes a caching IP stream box. I understand what is being said about needing to maintain the encryption from start to finish. I will ask about this and find out whos encryption this would be. If you have some specific contacts that said no to wireless, I would like to talk with them if that is possible. Mike Hammett wrote: A couple racks of equipment to provide a couple hundred channels and enough VoD just takes money. Usually when you want one channel from a content provider, they make you offer them all. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:50 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
So: 1) Content streams from Avail (or possibly EchoStar) 2) Independent licensing process 3) Home built headend (though reading back through your previous posts, I get the impression you used one from Avail) 4) Minerva middleware (I understand that to be the best one) 5) Moto STBs - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:09 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I cannot comment on the contracts. As I have mentioned previously, we bought the aggregated content from Avail Media. They can probably help you. We did still have direct contracts with the networks though. Ultimately, they were the ones who agreed to allow us to distribute via wireless. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
1) Content streams from Avail (or possibly EchoStar) Yes 2) Independent licensing process Yes, in some cases. Never worked with E*. 3) Home built headend (though reading back through your previous posts, I get the impression you used one from Avail) We used Avail's headend. Initially, it was total garbage. When I left that company, they were still trying to get simple things done reliably. I'm sure it's resolved by now. If I were to do it again, I'd build my own, and save about $250k. 4) Minerva middleware (I understand that to be the best one) Yes, indeed. They do have the best in my opinion. But there are cheaper ones, that will do the trick. I wish I could remember what we initially used. Started with an E... *shrug* 5) Moto STBs Yes, but again there are cheaper ones. The Mood (or i3, I think they're one-in-the-same now) boxes work just as good, and are much cheaper. I'm trying to remember the name of the company/guy we bought a lot of this equipment from. If I think of it, I'll post it. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: So: 1) Content streams from Avail (or possibly EchoStar) 2) Independent licensing process 3) Home built headend (though reading back through your previous posts, I get the impression you used one from Avail) 4) Minerva middleware (I understand that to be the best one) 5) Moto STBs - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:09 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I cannot comment on the contracts. As I have mentioned previously, we bought the aggregated content from Avail Media. They can probably help you. We did still have direct contracts with the networks though. Ultimately, they were the ones who agreed to allow us to distribute via wireless. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Well thats exactly what I had in mind. Its the licensing portion that is getting me. Now, the requirement for enc to the STB, is not that big a deal, unless they can mandate what type and such. I also know that some places are doing a IP feed over there digital channel @19mbit (2sd 1 hd, iirc). In order to dump that to a IP network takes just a receiver and Ethernet connection. Jayson Baker wrote: Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. I have one doubt. Let's say that one SD/HD channel takes 1Mbps (just to make math simple) and let's say that the number of total available channel is 50. (the total number or channel is not a real problem to me, but let's say the number is very high, 50 or 100) Multicast can help a lot (if it's broadcast not video on demand) but my doubt is about the number of simultaneous IPTV channels per sector antenna (i.e. per radio channel). If you have 20 customers on the same sector, each one of them watching a different TV channel you need 20Mbps per sector + the normal internet traffic. Let's say 30Mbps per sector. Or you can think to use a second sector IF the area is not so crowded. So the more successful is the service, the more problem you have on the radio channel (access network). So my concern is not on the backbone, it is on the access network. Another point is: what happens when you experience interference in the area? Web surfing can be acceptable with some interference, but IPTV is a pain. Personally I would feel safer in licensed frequencies, but this is my feeling, comments are welcome also about this. Other doubt: one user means maximum one channel per user? Or the same user can watch multiple IPTV channels at the same time? (e.g. I have 2 tv, so I put two IPTV boxes kids watch Disney, I watch football) Any wireless operator that is massively using IPTV wants to comment? Thank you -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform S.p.A. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
It would require 802.11n or 802.16d in 15 MHz or larger channels to be useful. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. I have one doubt. Let's say that one SD/HD channel takes 1Mbps (just to make math simple) and let's say that the number of total available channel is 50. (the total number or channel is not a real problem to me, but let's say the number is very high, 50 or 100) Multicast can help a lot (if it's broadcast not video on demand) but my doubt is about the number of simultaneous IPTV channels per sector antenna (i.e. per radio channel). If you have 20 customers on the same sector, each one of them watching a different TV channel you need 20Mbps per sector + the normal internet traffic. Let's say 30Mbps per sector. Or you can think to use a second sector IF the area is not so crowded. So the more successful is the service, the more problem you have on the radio channel (access network). So my concern is not on the backbone, it is on the access network. Another point is: what happens when you experience interference in the area? Web surfing can be acceptable with some interference, but IPTV is a pain. Personally I would feel safer in licensed frequencies, but this is my feeling, comments are welcome also about this. Other doubt: one user means maximum one channel per user? Or the same user can watch multiple IPTV channels at the same time? (e.g. I have 2 tv, so I put two IPTV boxes kids watch Disney, I watch football) Any wireless operator that is massively using IPTV wants to comment? Thank you -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform S.p.A. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
That is why my target is to just qualify for being a CATV operator (and my target spots are the same, less then 15 channels, all but one is OTA). Using multicast, all say, 20 channels will head out, no extra use per TV and no VoD. (for the wireless network). This also assumes its a dedicated sector for iptv or has the margin to support both. The DSL network OTOH, can support 2 to 5 channels per link, so as long as you have the BW into the ATM and then out to the remote dslams, your ok for making it a pure VoD channel setup. Only stream the ones needed when needed and it will reduce per CPE use with a over all higher network use. Paolo Di Francesco wrote: We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. I have one doubt. Let's say that one SD/HD channel takes 1Mbps (just to make math simple) and let's say that the number of total available channel is 50. (the total number or channel is not a real problem to me, but let's say the number is very high, 50 or 100) Multicast can help a lot (if it's broadcast not video on demand) but my doubt is about the number of simultaneous IPTV channels per sector antenna (i.e. per radio channel). If you have 20 customers on the same sector, each one of them watching a different TV channel you need 20Mbps per sector + the normal internet traffic. Let's say 30Mbps per sector. Or you can think to use a second sector IF the area is not so crowded. So the more successful is the service, the more problem you have on the radio channel (access network). So my concern is not on the backbone, it is on the access network. Another point is: what happens when you experience interference in the area? Web surfing can be acceptable with some interference, but IPTV is a pain. Personally I would feel safer in licensed frequencies, but this is my feeling, comments are welcome also about this. Other doubt: one user means maximum one channel per user? Or the same user can watch multiple IPTV channels at the same time? (e.g. I have 2 tv, so I put two IPTV boxes kids watch Disney, I watch football) Any wireless operator that is massively using IPTV wants to comment? Thank you WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
There are MDU systems and then there are IP Headend systems. They are different. An IP headend system is a cable company in a rack + a couple dishes. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. Thats more channels then I am even really looking to start will, unless I can find a 'prepackaged' setup with more. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. I must be missing something. It seams to me that billing and authentication are simple and can be handled by the system that I pretty much have in place now. I am not sure what licenses such software would need to deal with. A guide is pretty easy too, unless there is some form of 'Intellectual Property' BS going on with rolling your own guide capabilities. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Yea thats what I figured. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. What I have looked into with them is they have a may not cross public right of way clause making is useless for anything except MDU's, or is that only with dish network label setups? Will check it out. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I know you can do it over wireless as a company up north between me and Mark does it... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Indeed because I have spoken with 4 of the top content distributors and license shops and none of them CAN. They want to but can't. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
You have to spend a lot of money getting the rights from the channels - this is painful. An alternative is to resell service from a company that already has this. I believe you must use the feed from that particular company, but I could be wrong. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:50 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Josh Luthman wrote: You have to spend a lot of money getting the rights from the channels - this is painful. I expected this part to take some time. In all honesty the target sites (one no longer has a coax corp, the other has ONE non OTA channel, so as to qualify as a CATV sys) is you start with one channel (but prefer a small set). An alternative is to resell service from a company that already has this. I believe you must use the feed from that particular company, but I could be wrong. Do you mean you have to have their wireless feed? Or, do you need their IP feed? It is 'simple' to setup a IP feed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:50 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I cannot comment on the contracts. As I have mentioned previously, we bought the aggregated content from Avail Media. They can probably help you. We did still have direct contracts with the networks though. Ultimately, they were the ones who agreed to allow us to distribute via wireless. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
You can roll your own middleware until you have to deal with encryption. Most IPTV settop boxes are provisioned via bootp to push out the OS and the channel maps, so it is a trivial matter to provision a STB on your own. Encryption, however, complicates matters a lot and, as Jayson mentioned, even if you could roll your own, it doesn't matter the networks require specific platform and aren't going to trust home-grown solutions. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: Echostar's IPTV product is different from DISH Network's wholesale/resellable service. DISH cannot cross ROW's. Echo IPTV can, it was designed to do just that. Middleware was something I wasn't too heavily involved in, to be honest with you. But I do know your IPTV STB won't run without it. Take a look at Minerva - great middleware. You must use an approved middleware to get hooked up with the big boys like Disney -- they want to ensure that only people you sell their picture to are able to get it (i.e. encrypted, with a middleware controlling encryption and access). etc. etc. etc. Bah! Now see that kills the Roku's and other STB's like them. I wonder how they deal with netflix/hulu on xbox/ps3 On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:56 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. Thats more channels then I am even really looking to start will, unless I can find a 'prepackaged' setup with more. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. I must be missing something. It seams to me that billing and authentication are simple and can be handled by the system that I pretty much have in place now. I am not sure what licenses such software would need to deal with. A guide is pretty easy too, unless there is some form of 'Intellectual Property' BS going on with rolling your own guide capabilities. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Yea thats what I figured. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. What I have looked into with them is they have a may not cross public right of way clause making is useless for anything except MDU's, or is that only with dish network label setups? Will check it out. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Most of the processing stuff can be done on Linux with VLC and/or FFMpeg (for IP to ASI conversion, transcoding/transrating, etc...) -Clint Ricker On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Blake Covarrubias bl...@beamspeed.comwrote: We're operate a small cable TV company in a minor section of our service area and carry about 55 channels which includes most of the major networks. We're interested in deploying IPTV. What middleware software would you recommend? You mentioned you used Linux in your headend environment. Can you elaborate on that setup, such as the software you were using to convert the channels to IP Multicast, set-top boxes being used, software providing channel guides, etc etc? Thanks. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 9, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
If you're skeptical about putting $50k into IPTV, you probably need to be looking elsewhere. Even rolling your own, it can easily run you more than that. Satellite receivers are expensive. ASI to IP conversion is expensive. The likely upgrades to your network to handle the increased load is expensive. Then there's the problem that wireless gear and IPTV don't mix very well. Even all the matters of jitter / QOS aside that require some effort to get VoIP over wireless working well, most APs deployed today just don't have the throughput. You're basically talking about sustaining a 2Mbps stream (for mpeg4 SD stream) or, if you try to do HD, 10Mbps for each STB downstream of your access point. Most of the wireless gear in the market breaks down very quickly under that sort of load. On the other hand, if you're talking MDUs, wireless can handle the backhaul to a wired network without an issue. -Clint On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Do you mean I can't just point a web cam at my TV and have the customer call me when they want to change the channel??? I need to rethink this then. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? If you're skeptical about putting $50k into IPTV, you probably need to be looking elsewhere. Even rolling your own, it can easily run you more than that. Satellite receivers are expensive. ASI to IP conversion is expensive. The likely upgrades to your network to handle the increased load is expensive. Then there's the problem that wireless gear and IPTV don't mix very well. Even all the matters of jitter / QOS aside that require some effort to get VoIP over wireless working well, most APs deployed today just don't have the throughput. You're basically talking about sustaining a 2Mbps stream (for mpeg4 SD stream) or, if you try to do HD, 10Mbps for each STB downstream of your access point. Most of the wireless gear in the market breaks down very quickly under that sort of load. On the other hand, if you're talking MDUs, wireless can handle the backhaul to a wired network without an issue. -Clint On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
This may help a few of you out http://www.scribd.com/doc/7656628/HOw-to-Set-Up-Your-Own-Home-IPTVVoD-System http://www.aminocom.com/index.asp?PageID=2145848499 Richard 2009/11/11 Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Do you mean I can't just point a web cam at my TV and have the customer call me when they want to change the channel??? I need to rethink this then. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
We're operate a small cable TV company in a minor section of our service area and carry about 55 channels which includes most of the major networks. We're interested in deploying IPTV. What middleware software would you recommend? You mentioned you used Linux in your headend environment. Can you elaborate on that setup, such as the software you were using to convert the channels to IP Multicast, set-top boxes being used, software providing channel guides, etc etc? Thanks. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 9, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
The best option is create your own local content no license fees. This means everything the local TV station has with no FCC license. Probably only doable with a big cash reserve you pulled out of the stock market. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. Thats more channels then I am even really looking to start will, unless I can find a 'prepackaged' setup with more. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. I must be missing something. It seams to me that billing and authentication are simple and can be handled by the system that I pretty much have in place now. I am not sure what licenses such software would need to deal with. A guide is pretty easy too, unless there is some form of 'Intellectual Property' BS going on with rolling your own guide capabilities. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Yea thats what I figured. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. What I have looked into with them is they have a may not cross public right of way clause making is useless for anything except MDU's, or is that only with dish network label setups? Will check it out. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Echostar's IPTV product is different from DISH Network's wholesale/resellable service. DISH cannot cross ROW's. Echo IPTV can, it was designed to do just that. Middleware was something I wasn't too heavily involved in, to be honest with you. But I do know your IPTV STB won't run without it. Take a look at Minerva - great middleware. You must use an approved middleware to get hooked up with the big boys like Disney -- they want to ensure that only people you sell their picture to are able to get it (i.e. encrypted, with a middleware controlling encryption and access). etc. etc. etc. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:56 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. Thats more channels then I am even really looking to start will, unless I can find a 'prepackaged' setup with more. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. I must be missing something. It seams to me that billing and authentication are simple and can be handled by the system that I pretty much have in place now. I am not sure what licenses such software would need to deal with. A guide is pretty easy too, unless there is some form of 'Intellectual Property' BS going on with rolling your own guide capabilities. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Yea thats what I figured. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. What I have looked into with them is they have a may not cross public right of way clause making is useless for anything except MDU's, or is that only with dish network label setups? Will check it out. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam
Re: [WISPA] IPTV (OT but hey, we are all in this biz to do crazy IP based stuff)
Can you email me offlist about this stuff? Thanks, John Buwa - Original Message - From: Joe Miller joe.mil...@dslbyair.com To: D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:41:18 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV (OT but hey, we are all in this biz to do crazy IP based stuff) pretty muchnow we have fiber CPE's, pedestals, fiber switches, a 4 gateway DirecTV MFH3 IPTV system, and other parts collecting dust in a building. - Original Message From: D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com To: Joe Miller joe.mil...@dslbyair.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:36:17 PM Subject: IPTV (OT but hey, we are all in this biz to do crazy IP based stuff) So why did it get shutdown? ryan Joe Miller wrote: Mike, You looking for equipment for IPTV? or any other FTTX equipment? I was doing a ftth project and it got shut down. I do have some AFL material along with a complete MFH3 TVIP system for sale. Hit me off list. Joe Miller DSLbyAir, LLC - Original Message From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:54:48 AM Subject: [WISPA] Other lists Does anyone know of any good discussion lists\forums that cover MVNO and IPTV operations? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John Buwa Michiana Wireless Phone: 574-233-7170 http://www.michianawireless.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV (OT but hey, we are all in this biz to do crazy IP based stuff)
pretty muchnow we have fiber CPE's, pedestals, fiber switches, a 4 gateway DirecTV MFH3 IPTV system, and other parts collecting dust in a building. - Original Message From: D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com To: Joe Miller joe.mil...@dslbyair.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:36:17 PM Subject: IPTV (OT but hey, we are all in this biz to do crazy IP based stuff) So why did it get shutdown? ryan Joe Miller wrote: Mike, You looking for equipment for IPTV? or any other FTTX equipment? I was doing a ftth project and it got shut down. I do have some AFL material along with a complete MFH3 TVIP system for sale. Hit me off list. Joe Miller DSLbyAir, LLC - Original Message From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:54:48 AM Subject: [WISPA] Other lists Does anyone know of any good discussion lists\forums that cover MVNO and IPTV operations? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
An article I read stating that Verizon's failure in their RF system was that they required a franchise agreement whereas they didn't mention anything about franchises in the ATT section. Also, doing it wirelessly wouldn't be any different than satellite, which doesn't require a franchise. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: John Scrivner j...@scrivner.com Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 3:55 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV What led you to believe you do not need a franchise agreement for IPTV? Scriv On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Has anyone worked with IPTV service at all? Looking at an H.264 or VC-1 architecture, since they are the most bandwidth efficient. It also appears that if you use IP, you don't need franchise agreements, where as you do with RF TV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Clint Ricker wrote: If there was a fairly turnkey solution to providing television service over your networks (ie IPTV), would you be interested? We would like to provide business TV services where we would only carry a few channels on an ala carte basis. Specifically, we would like to offer CNN, MSNBC, FOX News, and CNBC. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to a conclusion years ago. Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish? Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Clint Ricker wrote: If there was a fairly turnkey solution to providing television service over your networks (ie IPTV), would you be interested? We would like to provide business TV services where we would only carry a few channels on an ala carte basis. Specifically, we would like to offer CNN, MSNBC, FOX News, and CNBC. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold. You can offer thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources. It doesn't even have to be in the traditional channel format. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Brad Belton wrote: We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to a conclusion years ago. Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish? For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to multiple customers using IP provides different economics. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Granted a cheaper news/weather only channel lineup would be a benefit, but how much of a benefit? In our experience the client would just as soon have the basics from DirecTV that include the channels they are after and be done with it. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Brad Belton wrote: We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to a conclusion years ago. Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish? For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to multiple customers using IP provides different economics. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet. grin Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold. You can offer thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources. It doesn't even have to be in the traditional channel format. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Brad Belton wrote: We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to a conclusion years ago. Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish? For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to multiple customers using IP provides different economics. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Not ready for prime time...? There's already several hundred thousand subscribers on IPTV platforms in the US alone, so I'm not sure what you're waiting for... what shortcomings are you seeing? The technology IS being deployed in prime time scenarios already (ATT, which is not known for being adventuresome with technology is the biggest, but not the only domestic example; internationally, it is being deployed much more widely). The main problem that WISPs face is that you may have to do some network overhauls to handle that sort of traffic... When you resell DirectTV (unless they have changed their model since 2005, which is the last I looked at their agreements), it is more of a referral/outsourced installation crew than reselling. It does let you offer triple play to a point, but (again, unless it's changed), you can't do single bill and you can't really generate any reoccuring revenue (which, as a service provider, is where your real profit tends to be) Although you do have increased costs in doing your own in terms of network buildout and so forth, you also effectively (if done right, profitably) subsidize the buildout of a better network It probably is not quite viable for ultra-rural WISPs because of really low densities and so forth. In areas with higher densities (definitely MDU), it is viable and deployable -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet. grin Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold. You can offer thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources. It doesn't even have to be in the traditional channel format. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Brad Belton wrote: We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to a conclusion years ago. Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish? For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to multiple customers using IP provides different economics. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do this, you'd definitely be interested? Is anyone else out there potentially interested? This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and the technology is there and deployable. There are two main obstacles, however. 1. Getting programming 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...) Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers. I'm interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for those customers... -Clint Ricker On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
I guess most of us would want to know what would be required of us (infrastructure wise) to be able to do this kind of service. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do this, you'd definitely be interested? Is anyone else out there potentially interested? This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and the technology is there and deployable. There are two main obstacles, however. 1. Getting programming 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...) Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers. I'm interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for those customers... -Clint Ricker On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Clint Ricker wrote: Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do this, you'd definitely be interested? Is anyone else out there potentially interested? This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and the technology is there and deployable. There are two main obstacles, however. 1. Getting programming 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...) The first obstacle is by far the biggest one. The head-end infrastructure is really not that bad. In fact, in our case where we only want 4 channels it is pretty cheap. Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers. I'm interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for those customers... We are ready for the solution should it present itself. We have our own fiber backbone that we operate at 10gig currently. Further, we are multicast enabled and have all the traffic separation technologies needed as part of providing our existing VoIP service. Again, just waiting on the solution to present itself. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to find a solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels? 12megs. There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now, with break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow ala-carte to a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the networks and their contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate companies. If you get 1 channel from a company, they want to serve all their channels to you (You can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West, HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in the carrier agreements with whomever is brokering the aggregate deals. I agree with your #2 below, yep! If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we would definitely be interested. Brandon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do this, you'd definitely be interested? Is anyone else out there potentially interested? This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and the technology is there and deployable. There are two main obstacles, however. 1. Getting programming 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...) Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers. I'm interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for those customers... -Clint Ricker On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
MPEG-4 systems can provide much better bitrates. Most of DirecTV's HD is in MPEG-4. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Brandon Brownlee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to find a solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels? 12megs. There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now, with break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow ala-carte to a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the networks and their contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate companies. If you get 1 channel from a company, they want to serve all their channels to you (You can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West, HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in the carrier agreements with whomever is brokering the aggregate deals. I agree with your #2 below, yep! If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we would definitely be interested. Brandon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do this, you'd definitely be interested? Is anyone else out there potentially interested? This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and the technology is there and deployable. There are two main obstacles, however. 1. Getting programming 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...) Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers. I'm interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for those customers... -Clint Ricker On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
How much better? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV MPEG-4 systems can provide much better bitrates. Most of DirecTV's HD is in MPEG-4. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Brandon Brownlee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to find a solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels? 12megs. There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now, with break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow ala-carte to a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the networks and their contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate companies. If you get 1 channel from a company, they want to serve all their channels to you (You can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West, HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in the carrier agreements with whomever is brokering the aggregate deals. I agree with your #2 below, yep! If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we would definitely be interested. Brandon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do this, you'd definitely be interested? Is anyone else out there potentially interested? This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and the technology is there and deployable. There are two main obstacles, however. 1. Getting programming 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...) Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers. I'm interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for those customers... -Clint Ricker On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
I've heard of 768 kb SD and HD under 5 megs, though I forget how far under 5 megs. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV How much better? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV MPEG-4 systems can provide much better bitrates. Most of DirecTV's HD is in MPEG-4. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Brandon Brownlee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to find a solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels? 12megs. There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now, with break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow ala-carte to a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the networks and their contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate companies. If you get 1 channel from a company, they want to serve all their channels to you (You can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West, HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in the carrier agreements with whomever is brokering the aggregate deals. I agree with your #2 below, yep! If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we would definitely be interested. Brandon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do this, you'd definitely be interested? Is anyone else out there potentially interested? This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and the technology is there and deployable. There are two main obstacles, however. 1. Getting programming 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...) Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers. I'm interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for those customers... -Clint Ricker On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
My research show that the main cost is the STB more so then the head end. VLS makes a pretty decent head-end depending on what you want to serve out. I had setup VLS with access to current IPTV stations as well as HD stored media. The streaming was very simple to to, albeit network intensive. I would be very interested in learning more about the purposed solution On 9/10/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've heard of 768 kb SD and HD under 5 megs, though I forget how far under 5 megs. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV How much better? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV MPEG-4 systems can provide much better bitrates. Most of DirecTV's HD is in MPEG-4. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Brandon Brownlee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] IPTV I'd be interested. I've checked a few, and so far have been unable to find a solution with programming that allows you to broadcast wirelessly due to license agreements. Not to mention one channel is approximately 4megs, and HD is 20megs, at TV quality anyway. These two things are large technical hurdles, especially for WISPs. 3 TVs in the home on different channels? 12megs. There are a few turnkey solutions deploying for small businesses now, with break-evens set around a 1000 customer base, that will allow ala-carte to a point. The ala-carte programming is foiled by the networks and their contracts, not necessarily the cable/aggregate companies. If you get 1 channel from a company, they want to serve all their channels to you (You can't get HBO without HBO2, HBO-West, HBO-Family, etc.). That is setup in the carrier agreements with whomever is brokering the aggregate deals. I agree with your #2 below, yep! If you come up with something, please hit me up with the info as we would definitely be interested. Brandon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Matt, I'm understanding from you that if there was a good way to do this, you'd definitely be interested? Is anyone else out there potentially interested? This is an area that I've been working in for quite a while now, and the technology is there and deployable. There are two main obstacles, however. 1. Getting programming 2. Upfront costs of deployment (video headend infrastructures are not cheap...) Both of those are not really issues, but do require a bit of scale I'm working on a good platform to be able to do this on a centralized level that can then support multiple, smaller service providers. I'm interested in seeing if this is of interest to a large enough userbase through WISPs to make it worth the effort in building in support for those customers... -Clint Ricker On 9/10/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
I would like to look at the bandwidth per channel your system would use. Around here there are multiple tv's per household, and very few are ever on the same channel. That is where I see the issue, even at 1 meg per feed X 3 STB's kills my 900Mhz Canopy AP. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Not ready for prime time...? There's already several hundred thousand subscribers on IPTV platforms in the US alone, so I'm not sure what you're waiting for... what shortcomings are you seeing? The technology IS being deployed in prime time scenarios already (ATT, which is not known for being adventuresome with technology is the biggest, but not the only domestic example; internationally, it is being deployed much more widely). The main problem that WISPs face is that you may have to do some network overhauls to handle that sort of traffic... When you resell DirectTV (unless they have changed their model since 2005, which is the last I looked at their agreements), it is more of a referral/outsourced installation crew than reselling. It does let you offer triple play to a point, but (again, unless it's changed), you can't do single bill and you can't really generate any reoccuring revenue (which, as a service provider, is where your real profit tends to be) Although you do have increased costs in doing your own in terms of network buildout and so forth, you also effectively (if done right, profitably) subsidize the buildout of a better network It probably is not quite viable for ultra-rural WISPs because of really low densities and so forth. In areas with higher densities (definitely MDU), it is viable and deployable -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet. grin Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold. You can offer thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources. It doesn't even have to be in the traditional channel format. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Brad Belton wrote: We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to a conclusion years ago. Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish? For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to multiple customers using IP provides different economics. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
Good point regarding added value to the IP service we are offering. VoIP has added a certain stickiness for us already. If we had IPTV to bundle in as well it could only help. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Brad Belton wrote: Correct, we see the same requests. However, why try re-inventing the wheel when DirecTV already has a solution in place? Every time this issue has popped up the client was more than happy to pay the DirecTV price even if they only wanted CNN or FOX. Are you reselling DirecTV now? It just didn't seem to make sense (yet) to put additional load on the IP leg into a building when the service is already available from the roof where we already have rights. Yes, but then you are running coax to various tenants and various drops. If it is a business park then you are putting a dish on each building. In our case, we would like to charge them for the channels, but bundle the bandwidth usage into their service just like we do VoIP. As they use more and more bandwidth it gives the customer incentive to upgrade their commit. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
Please expand a bit more on your offering. Inquiring minds want to know. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Not ready for prime time...? There's already several hundred thousand subscribers on IPTV platforms in the US alone, so I'm not sure what you're waiting for... what shortcomings are you seeing? The technology IS being deployed in prime time scenarios already (ATT, which is not known for being adventuresome with technology is the biggest, but not the only domestic example; internationally, it is being deployed much more widely). The main problem that WISPs face is that you may have to do some network overhauls to handle that sort of traffic... When you resell DirectTV (unless they have changed their model since 2005, which is the last I looked at their agreements), it is more of a referral/outsourced installation crew than reselling. It does let you offer triple play to a point, but (again, unless it's changed), you can't do single bill and you can't really generate any reoccuring revenue (which, as a service provider, is where your real profit tends to be) Although you do have increased costs in doing your own in terms of network buildout and so forth, you also effectively (if done right, profitably) subsidize the buildout of a better network It probably is not quite viable for ultra-rural WISPs because of really low densities and so forth. In areas with higher densities (definitely MDU), it is viable and deployable -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet. grin Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold. You can offer thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources. It doesn't even have to be in the traditional channel format. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Brad Belton wrote: We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to a conclusion years ago. Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish? For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to multiple customers using IP provides different economics. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Brad, Here's what I'm looking at, and what would generally be involved... I do a lot of work with cable / video, and, having previously worked in the independent ISP industry, I'm familiar with both worlds. One of the major problems that I see that independents face is that they are trying to build networks getting about 1/2 to 1/3 of the revenue of the competition--when your competition gets $120 per customer instead of your $40 (or whatever), it's hard to build a competitive network and continually stay ahead of the technology curve. Many don't and others just take smaller profit margins or try to leverage other services (like computer support, etc...). Still, it's a harder position to be in. I've started some discussions about getting content. It's really a matter of #s--very few of you have enough subscribers to get very far; but, if I get enough people interested (I'm talking to some rural telco's that want to get into this so that's coming along), then I should be able to push that through, according to the conversations that I've been having. Initially, support for WISPs would be fairly limited to either MDU-setups and limited business programming (like what Matt's looking for). This is because wireless is a VERY challenging medium to deal with since it is basically broadcast and doesn't offer much capacity to boot (so, the worse of cable HFC and DSL in one package). It is also because content providers are particular about protecting their content, and that...is a challenge since wireless does not necessarily have the best reputation (kinda funny for an industry built around RF and satellite). Still, bandwidth for wireless gear is getting better, compression is getting better, and, given the right wireless gear and network design, it is definitely possible to deliver a good IPTV service to customers. Clint Ricker -Kentnis Technologies On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please expand a bit more on your offering. Inquiring minds want to know. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Not ready for prime time...? There's already several hundred thousand subscribers on IPTV platforms in the US alone, so I'm not sure what you're waiting for... what shortcomings are you seeing? The technology IS being deployed in prime time scenarios already (ATT, which is not known for being adventuresome with technology is the biggest, but not the only domestic example; internationally, it is being deployed much more widely). The main problem that WISPs face is that you may have to do some network overhauls to handle that sort of traffic... When you resell DirectTV (unless they have changed their model since 2005, which is the last I looked at their agreements), it is more of a referral/outsourced installation crew than reselling. It does let you offer triple play to a point, but (again, unless it's changed), you can't do single bill and you can't really generate any reoccuring revenue (which, as a service provider, is where your real profit tends to be) Although you do have increased costs in doing your own in terms of network buildout and so forth, you also effectively (if done right, profitably) subsidize the buildout of a better network It probably is not quite viable for ultra-rural WISPs because of really low densities and so forth. In areas with higher densities (definitely MDU), it is viable and deployable -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies On 9/10/07, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, but IMO just not quite ready for prime time . yet. grin Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV IPTV is also the breaking of the traditional TV mold. You can offer thousands of channels from all kinds of different sources. It doesn't even have to be in the traditional channel format. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Brad Belton wrote: We have (off and on) been looking for the same solution, however we came to a conclusion years ago. Why not just re-sell Direct TV or Dish? For a full channel line-up or in residential settings I would agree with you. However, in a MTU the ability to provide channels ala carte to multiple customers using IP provides different economics. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Rich Comroe wrote: SNIP Yeah, but ... Location Free, Slingbox, etc., do quite nicely on much much less BW. Is IPTV really that much of a hog that it needs 1.25Mbps? How could it possibly compete against products out there already that use only a tenth of this BW? The items that use 1/10th the bandwidth are not made to be displayed on a 42 HD monitor. As an example watch youtube videos on your system and see if you would be willing to use it for everyday show viewing. There are certain things that can be low resolution, most news programs for instance. However, most people would prefer Desperate Housewives in 1080p HD especially if they shelled out the bucks for the TV that will do it. Honestly, what, other than content on demand (and I mean really on demand not available ever 15 minutes for the next week), does IPTV offer over regular broadcast TV? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
fyi, we just switched over a fios customer onto our trango 900 mhz system. they were so pissed at the up/down constant thrashing of their high speed fios service... quite happy with us now :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 11:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs). There is nobody that can support that right now... or even 3-5 years from now. Before everyone gets too excited about IPTV, we need to look at reality. Sure companies like Verizon are doing fiber to the house... we will never compete with that... but why try? We will never dominate our region... instead, we are happy to pick up the customers that are unhappy with the telco or cableco or other wireless provider and want internet that just works. That's what we do. Internet. That works. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: sigh having no viable options vs. having one's head buried in the sand are two totally different things. Boy I'm getting tired of being insulted for having a successful business! marlon - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 5:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] For George - just because you were thinking of me. All, Below is Ken's latest Blog post, still a work in progress, since George brought it up he felt it was appropriate. Regards, Dawn DiPietro According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day. http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tvhealth.html Now, I would be the first to admit that there is an unknown percentage of time that the TV is on but not being watched in any given family but even if we assume that percentage is close to 50% (which I would guess is high) we can see that from the estimated five minutes per day the average American spent watching internet video (according to the comScore study) we could very well see a jump of some nearly 50 times that amount once a full palette of subject matter is presented on the Internet for viewing on demand. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 And which of society's groups of will be eager to take advantage of free Video On Demand? Why the people who can't afford to pay for these high dollar services or would prefer not to. The next question is, what kind of bandwidth will it take to deliver VoD per user? Let me qualify this question by laying some of the assumptions that will need to be addressed in this answer. First off, on the average Friday night, at 6:00PM, more than 50% of American households have more than one TV set on (read as more than one continuous video stream playing) and I would suggest this trend will continue, if not increase as the net-centric services improve. Secondly, if we are talking about IPTV bandwidth needs, we need to forecast that a 1.25Mbps sustained stream is necessary for one stream. If we move into the realm of high definition we are now looking at a rate of 14Mbps (uncompressed) with perhaps a chance of delivering reasonable
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Remember that like the term wireless, iptv has way too many meanings. IPTV to the telcos is TV to the cablecos. By saying IPTV, they figure they get around a lot of stuff and make it sound better than broadcast TV. Broadcast TV isn't much of a bandwidth problem - they do it fine today. TV over the internet will take time since most people don't want to watch TV on a laptop or PC. Until the Converged Living Room becomes mainstream, bandwidth won't be a huge problem. VOD (video on demand) is being confused with Network DVR. Instead of home DVR, it will be at the NOC. Maybe the way hotel on-demand is. That's what the content companies want. We'll see. Even DISH promises Caller ID on the TV screen, but that isn't IPTV. Just some thoughts this morning. Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
Speaking of IPTV... We are demo'ing IPTV with MobiTV and NDS at CTIA http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reut ers.com:20070327:MTFH67307_2007-03-27_12-49-45_L27270281type=comktNews rpc=44 Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Nice easy reading here. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 Looks like the trend is towards video on demand. Here's a link: http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/4 We have a long way to go before this stuff is mainstream for sure. But there is a convergence happening. I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Travis Johnson wrote: I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs). There is nobody that can support that right now... or even 3-5 years from now. Before everyone gets too excited about IPTV, we need to look at reality. Sure companies like Verizon are doing fiber to the house... we will never compete with that... but why try? We will never dominate our region... instead, we are happy to pick up the customers that are unhappy with the telco or cableco or other wireless provider and want internet that just works. That's what we do. Internet. That works. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: sigh having no viable options vs. having one's head buried in the sand are two totally different things. Boy I'm getting tired of being insulted for having a successful business! marlon - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 5:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] For George - just because you were thinking of me. All, Below is Ken's latest Blog post, still a work in progress, since George brought it up he felt it was appropriate. Regards, Dawn DiPietro According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day. http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tvhealth.html Now, I would be the first to admit that there is an unknown percentage of time that the TV is on but not being watched in any given family but even if we assume that percentage is close to 50% (which I would guess is high) we can see that from the estimated five minutes per day the average American spent watching internet video (according to the comScore study) we could very well see a jump of some nearly 50 times that amount once a full palette of subject matter is presented on the Internet for viewing on demand. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 And which of society's groups of will be eager to take advantage of free Video On Demand? Why the people who can't afford to pay for these high dollar services or would prefer not to. The next question is, what kind of bandwidth will it take to deliver VoD per
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Wow... that's good news... after reading PC Magazine's ISP comparison, they made it sound like Verizon's fiber was the end all for every customer they contacted. ;) Travis Microserv Rick Smith wrote: fyi, we just switched over a fios customer onto our trango 900 mhz system. they were so pissed at the up/down constant thrashing of their high speed fios service... quite happy with us now :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 11:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs). There is nobody that can support that right now... or even 3-5 years from now. Before everyone gets too excited about IPTV, we need to look at reality. Sure companies like Verizon are doing fiber to the house... we will never compete with that... but why try? We will never dominate our region... instead, we are happy to pick up the customers that are unhappy with the telco or cableco or other wireless provider and want internet that just works. That's what we do. Internet. That works. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: sigh having no viable options vs. having one's head buried in the sand are two totally different things. Boy I'm getting tired of being insulted for having a successful business! marlon - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 5:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] For George - just because you were thinking of me. All, Below is Ken's latest Blog post, still a work in progress, since George brought it up he felt it was appropriate. Regards, Dawn DiPietro According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day. http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tvhealth.html Now, I would be the first to admit that there is an unknown percentage of time that the TV is on but not being watched in any given family but even if we assume that percentage is close to 50% (which I would guess is high) we can see that from the estimated five minutes per day the average American spent watching internet video (according to the comScore study) we could very well see a jump of some nearly 50 times that amount once a full palette of subject matter is presented on the Internet for viewing on demand. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 And which of society's groups of will be eager to take advantage of free Video On Demand? Why the people who can't afford to pay for these high dollar services or would prefer not to. The next question is, what kind of bandwidth will it take to deliver VoD per user? Let me qualify this question by laying some of the assumptions that will need to be addressed in this answer. First off, on the average Friday night, at 6:00PM, more than 50% of American households have more than one TV set on (read as more than one continuous video stream playing) and I would suggest this trend will continue, if not increase as the net-centric services improve. Secondly, if we are talking about IPTV bandwidth needs, we need to forecast that a 1.25Mbps sustained
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Peter, do you have much information on Network DVR (like the term). I would think that if you could get DR owners to agreee to Network DVR it would just be a small jump to real VOD. But then again, I still struggle with the concept of them bitching about people copying stuff that they broadcast freely over the air... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: Remember that like the term wireless, iptv has way too many meanings. IPTV to the telcos is TV to the cablecos. By saying IPTV, they figure they get around a lot of stuff and make it sound better than broadcast TV. Broadcast TV isn't much of a bandwidth problem - they do it fine today. TV over the internet will take time since most people don't want to watch TV on a laptop or PC. Until the Converged Living Room becomes mainstream, bandwidth won't be a huge problem. VOD (video on demand) is being confused with Network DVR. Instead of home DVR, it will be at the NOC. Maybe the way hotel on-demand is. That's what the content companies want. We'll see. Even DISH promises Caller ID on the TV screen, but that isn't IPTV. Just some thoughts this morning. Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] IPTV
One of the major cable systems just lost that fight. The studios and networks filed suit and won on the issue of copyright infringmement. Dave David T. Hughes Director, Corporate Communications Roadstar Internet 604 South King Street -Suite 200 Leesburg, VA 20175 -HOME OF INET LOUDOUN- Office - (703) 234-9969 Direct - (703) 953-1645 Cell -(703) 587-3282 Corporate Offices - (703) 554-6621 Fax - (703) 258-0003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: dhughes248 - Video conference capable -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Peter, do you have much information on Network DVR (like the term). I would think that if you could get DR owners to agreee to Network DVR it would just be a small jump to real VOD. But then again, I still struggle with the concept of them bitching about people copying stuff that they broadcast freely over the air... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: Remember that like the term wireless, iptv has way too many meanings. IPTV to the telcos is TV to the cablecos. By saying IPTV, they figure they get around a lot of stuff and make it sound better than broadcast TV. Broadcast TV isn't much of a bandwidth problem - they do it fine today. TV over the internet will take time since most people don't want to watch TV on a laptop or PC. Until the Converged Living Room becomes mainstream, bandwidth won't be a huge problem. VOD (video on demand) is being confused with Network DVR. Instead of home DVR, it will be at the NOC. Maybe the way hotel on-demand is. That's what the content companies want. We'll see. Even DISH promises Caller ID on the TV screen, but that isn't IPTV. Just some thoughts this morning. Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
That agrees with most of the anecdotal information that I have on it, which is why I am very interested if Peter has information on someone doing it or, if like the rest of the world outside the digital rights holders, he see the immense value of being able to do so for your customer base. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless David Hughes wrote: One of the major cable systems just lost that fight. The studios and networks filed suit and won on the issue of copyright infringmement. Dave David T. Hughes Director, Corporate Communications Roadstar Internet 604 South King Street -Suite 200 Leesburg, VA 20175 -HOME OF INET LOUDOUN- Office - (703) 234-9969 Direct - (703) 953-1645 Cell -(703) 587-3282 Corporate Offices - (703) 554-6621 Fax - (703) 258-0003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: dhughes248 - Video conference capable -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Peter, do you have much information on Network DVR (like the term). I would think that if you could get DR owners to agreee to Network DVR it would just be a small jump to real VOD. But then again, I still struggle with the concept of them bitching about people copying stuff that they broadcast freely over the air... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: Remember that like the term wireless, iptv has way too many meanings. IPTV to the telcos is TV to the cablecos. By saying IPTV, they figure they get around a lot of stuff and make it sound better than broadcast TV. Broadcast TV isn't much of a bandwidth problem - they do it fine today. TV over the internet will take time since most people don't want to watch TV on a laptop or PC. Until the Converged Living Room becomes mainstream, bandwidth won't be a huge problem. VOD (video on demand) is being confused with Network DVR. Instead of home DVR, it will be at the NOC. Maybe the way hotel on-demand is. That's what the content companies want. We'll see. Even DISH promises Caller ID on the TV screen, but that isn't IPTV. Just some thoughts this morning. Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
It wouldn't happen to be this one: http://www.samsung.com/Products/ProAV/Plasmas/PPM50M5HBXXAA.asp?page=Specifications I was thinking of buying this last year. Held off looking for lower pricing, so I can buy 2. George Rich Comroe wrote: I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Yeah, but ... My living room big picture that I watch from my easy chair happens to be my PC video server, not a TV. It's been over a year since I used a TV (which I define as a display box with a TV tuner built in). The living room PC has a couple TV tuner cards, Internet connection, and drives a big 48 display. Watch cable, programs previously recorded to disk (BeyondTV software is great with a half-terabyte drives), or Internet content. There's never even been a keyboard on this machine. If I wanna navigate there's a wireless mouse that sits on the hassock next to the tuner card remote controls. If I really need to type, I have to use a laptop with VNC. Essentially a TIVO on steroids. It's geek heaven! Secondly, if we are talking about IPTV bandwidth needs, we need to forecast that a 1.25Mbps sustained stream is necessary for one stream. Yeah, but ... Location Free, Slingbox, etc., do quite nicely on much much less BW. Is IPTV really that much of a hog that it needs 1.25Mbps? How could it possibly compete against products out there already that use only a tenth of this BW? Rich - Original Message - From: George Rogato To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Nice easy reading here. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 Looks like the trend is towards video on demand. Here's a link: http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/4 We have a long way to go before this stuff is mainstream for sure. But there is a convergence happening. I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Travis Johnson wrote: I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs). There is nobody that can support that right now... or even 3-5 years from now. Before everyone gets too excited about IPTV, we need to look at reality. Sure companies like Verizon are doing fiber to the house... we will never compete with that... but why try? We will never dominate our region... instead, we are happy to pick up the customers that are unhappy with the telco or cableco or other wireless provider and want internet that just works. That's what we do. Internet. That works. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: sigh having no viable options vs. having one's head buried in the sand are two totally different things. Boy I'm getting tired of being insulted for having a successful business! marlon - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Right, I was just reading this a couple days ago. It did not look good for the future of network based dvr and it sounded like it had implications for anyone wanting to cache primetime tv. David Hughes wrote: One of the major cable systems just lost that fight. The studios and networks filed suit and won on the issue of copyright infringmement. Dave David T. Hughes Director, Corporate Communications Roadstar Internet 604 South King Street -Suite 200 Leesburg, VA 20175 -HOME OF INET LOUDOUN- Office - (703) 234-9969 Direct - (703) 953-1645 Cell -(703) 587-3282 Corporate Offices - (703) 554-6621 Fax - (703) 258-0003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: dhughes248 - Video conference capable -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Peter, do you have much information on Network DVR (like the term). I would think that if you could get DR owners to agreee to Network DVR it would just be a small jump to real VOD. But then again, I still struggle with the concept of them bitching about people copying stuff that they broadcast freely over the air... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: Remember that like the term wireless, iptv has way too many meanings. IPTV to the telcos is TV to the cablecos. By saying IPTV, they figure they get around a lot of stuff and make it sound better than broadcast TV. Broadcast TV isn't much of a bandwidth problem - they do it fine today. TV over the internet will take time since most people don't want to watch TV on a laptop or PC. Until the Converged Living Room becomes mainstream, bandwidth won't be a huge problem. VOD (video on demand) is being confused with Network DVR. Instead of home DVR, it will be at the NOC. Maybe the way hotel on-demand is. That's what the content companies want. We'll see. Even DISH promises Caller ID on the TV screen, but that isn't IPTV. Just some thoughts this morning. Peter -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV Net DVR
Sam, The content rights owners are strong - and a PITA. There business model revolves around record once, sell thousands of times to the same consumer. That model of course is broken - and Gen Y disregards it. If the RIAA and the MPAA keep pushing, a group may get together and sue. Like tobacco, the first time they lose a copyright fight will be the last. The cable companies think that it will be cheaper; more consumer friendly; and more advertiser friendly to have a Network DVR ... where TV watching becomes totlly on-demand. Cablevision based in NYC is the MSO that lost the copyright court battle. (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2107528,00.asp) ATT's HomeZone uses PRISMIQ (http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/news/article.php/3289311) for On-Demand, but mainly for movies and internet content, not TV content. Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO Sam Tetherow wrote: That agrees with most of the anecdotal information that I have on it, which is why I am very interested if Peter has information on someone doing it or, if like the rest of the world outside the digital rights holders, he see the immense value of being able to do so for your customer base. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless David Hughes wrote: One of the major cable systems just lost that fight. The studios and networks filed suit and won on the issue of copyright infringmement. Dave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Yeah, that's it! Naw it's not. I shouldn't be embarassed to tell the truth. The 48 display is the lowest tech thing in the livingroom. It's an almost 10yr old Toshiba rear-projection TV, and the PC simply uses a TV out. So when Sam Tetherow says the stuff that uses 1/10th of the bandwidth are not made to be displayed on a 42 HD monitor, he's correct ... but Slingbox, LocationFree, and BeyondTV compressed recordings look just fine to me (about the same as analog cable looked). Rich - Original Message - From: George Rogato To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV It wouldn't happen to be this one: http://www.samsung.com/Products/ProAV/Plasmas/PPM50M5HBXXAA.asp?page=Specifications I was thinking of buying this last year. Held off looking for lower pricing, so I can buy 2. George Rich Comroe wrote: I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Yeah, but ... My living room big picture that I watch from my easy chair happens to be my PC video server, not a TV. It's been over a year since I used a TV (which I define as a display box with a TV tuner built in). The living room PC has a couple TV tuner cards, Internet connection, and drives a big 48 display. Watch cable, programs previously recorded to disk (BeyondTV software is great with a half-terabyte drives), or Internet content. There's never even been a keyboard on this machine. If I wanna navigate there's a wireless mouse that sits on the hassock next to the tuner card remote controls. If I really need to type, I have to use a laptop with VNC. Essentially a TIVO on steroids. It's geek heaven! Secondly, if we are talking about IPTV bandwidth needs, we need to forecast that a 1.25Mbps sustained stream is necessary for one stream. Yeah, but ... Location Free, Slingbox, etc., do quite nicely on much much less BW. Is IPTV really that much of a hog that it needs 1.25Mbps? How could it possibly compete against products out there already that use only a tenth of this BW? Rich - Original Message - From: George Rogato To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Nice easy reading here. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 Looks like the trend is towards video on demand. Here's a link: http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/4 We have a long way to go before this stuff is mainstream for sure. But there is a convergence happening. I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Travis Johnson wrote: I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs). There is nobody that can support that right now... or even 3-5 years from now. Before everyone gets too excited about IPTV, we need to look at reality. Sure companies like Verizon are doing fiber to the house... we will never compete with that... but why try? We will never dominate our region... instead, we are happy to pick up the customers that are unhappy with the telco or cableco or other wireless provider and want internet that just works. That's what we do. Internet. That works. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: sigh having no viable options vs. having one's head buried in the sand are two totally different things. Boy I'm getting tired of being insulted for having a successful business! marlon - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 5:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] For George - just because you were thinking of me. All, Below is Ken's latest Blog post, still a work in progress, since George brought it up he felt it was appropriate. Regards, Dawn DiPietro According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day. http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tvhealth.html Now, I would be the first to admit that there is an unknown percentage of time that the TV is on but not being watched in any given family but even if we assume that percentage is close to 50% (which I would guess is high) we can see that from the estimated five minutes per day the average American spent watching internet video (according to the comScore study) we could very well see a jump of some nearly 50 times that amount once a full palette of subject matter is presented on the Internet for viewing on demand. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 And which of society's groups of will be eager to take advantage of free Video On Demand? Why the people who can't afford to pay for these high dollar services or would prefer not to. The next question is, what kind of bandwidth will it take to deliver VoD per user? Let me qualify this question by laying some of the assumptions that will need to be addressed in this answer. First off, on the average Friday night, at 6:00PM, more than 50% of American households have more than one TV set on (read as more than one continuous video stream playing) and I would suggest this trend will continue, if not increase as the net-centric services improve. Secondly, if we are talking about IPTV bandwidth needs, we need to forecast that a 1.25Mbps sustained stream is necessary for one stream. If we move into the realm of high definition we are now looking at a rate of 14Mbps (uncompressed) with perhaps a chance of delivering reasonable quality using a 4Mbps sustained stream - per video is use. That does not take into account any bandwidth for telephone or Internet access, should these services be required. What we can see is that any network that is only capable of delivering sub 1Mbps speeds (as measured in real throughput) is now obsolete - we simply refuse to admit it yet. Of course, we can still continue to bury our heads in the sand and
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
Nice easy reading here. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 Looks like the trend is towards video on demand. Here's a link: http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/4 We have a long way to go before this stuff is mainstream for sure. But there is a convergence happening. I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Travis Johnson wrote: I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs). There is nobody that can support that right now... or even 3-5 years from now. Before everyone gets too excited about IPTV, we need to look at reality. Sure companies like Verizon are doing fiber to the house... we will never compete with that... but why try? We will never dominate our region... instead, we are happy to pick up the customers that are unhappy with the telco or cableco or other wireless provider and want internet that just works. That's what we do. Internet. That works. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: sigh having no viable options vs. having one's head buried in the sand are two totally different things. Boy I'm getting tired of being insulted for having a successful business! marlon - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 5:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] For George - just because you were thinking of me. All, Below is Ken's latest Blog post, still a work in progress, since George brought it up he felt it was appropriate. Regards, Dawn DiPietro According to the A.C. Nielsen Co., the average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day. http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tvhealth.html Now, I would be the first to admit that there is an unknown percentage of time that the TV is on but not being watched in any given family but even if we assume that percentage is close to 50% (which I would guess is high) we can see that from the estimated five minutes per day the average American spent watching internet video (according to the comScore study) we could very well see a jump of some nearly 50 times that amount once a full palette of subject matter is presented on the Internet for viewing on demand. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 And which of society's groups of will be eager to take advantage of free Video On Demand? Why the people who can't afford to pay for these high dollar services or would prefer not to. The next question is, what kind of bandwidth will it take to deliver VoD per user? Let me qualify this question by laying some of the assumptions that will need to be addressed in this answer. First off, on the average Friday night, at 6:00PM, more than 50% of American households have more than one TV set on (read as more than one continuous video stream playing) and I would suggest this trend will continue, if not increase as the net-centric services improve. Secondly, if we are talking about IPTV bandwidth needs, we need to forecast that a 1.25Mbps sustained stream is necessary for one stream. If we move into the realm of high definition we are now looking at a
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
I agree with Travis for similar reasons. I doubt anyone other than the fiber to the home people are going to be able to compete with IPTV unless something drastic happens for wireless delivery of bandwidth. With the proliferation of 720p HDTV and up I can't see someone hooking that up to the internet so they can watch 320x240 videos. The goggle/youtube numbers are impressive, but they really are apples to oranges when comparing to TV content. 151 minutes of programming a month is a far cry from the average of at least that a day for normal TV viewing. In my opinion there is only one thing that will make IPTV the killer application and that is retroactive time shifting. In other words, if I'm at the coffee shop and everyone is talking about the cool show they watched last night or over the weekend and I can go online and get it. Until that occurs I don't see the benefit of tying up my IP pipe for video when I can affordably get it off of a medium better suited for it (general broadcast rather than the multiple ptp streams of IPTV). Until someone works out a deal with the major networks to be able to store and serve content at an affordable rate most people will stick with a dish/cable and a HD PVR. Going to the network sites only in a last ditch to get that episode of Lost that they missed. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless George Rogato wrote: Nice easy reading here. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 Looks like the trend is towards video on demand. Here's a link: http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/4 We have a long way to go before this stuff is mainstream for sure. But there is a convergence happening. I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV - HomeZone
Well with ATT's HomeZone there is a lot of bandwidth use coming up. We are testing it up here in Alaska and it works quite slick. It downloads via the WiMax network and caches it for you. So the bandwidth usage it the deal, not IPTV streaming. Anyone else on the list using it? -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems 1(907)240-2183 Cell 1(907)349-2226 Fax 1(907)349-4308 Office www.akwireless.net - Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:40:34 -0800 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV I agree with Travis for similar reasons. I doubt anyone other than the fiber to the home people are going to be able to compete with IPTV unless something drastic happens for wireless delivery of bandwidth. With the proliferation of 720p HDTV and up I can't see someone hooking that up to the internet so they can watch 320x240 videos. The goggle/youtube numbers are impressive, but they really are apples to oranges when comparing to TV content. 151 minutes of programming a month is a far cry from the average of at least that a day for normal TV viewing. In my opinion there is only one thing that will make IPTV the killer application and that is retroactive time shifting. In other words, if I'm at the coffee shop and everyone is talking about the cool show they watched last night or over the weekend and I can go online and get it. Until that occurs I don't see the benefit of tying up my IP pipe for video when I can affordably get it off of a medium better suited for it (general broadcast rather than the multiple ptp streams of IPTV). Until someone works out a deal with the major networks to be able to store and serve content at an affordable rate most people will stick with a dish/cable and a HD PVR. Going to the network sites only in a last ditch to get that episode of Lost that they missed. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless George Rogato wrote: Nice easy reading here. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 Looks like the trend is towards video on demand. Here's a link: http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/4 We have a long way to go before this stuff is mainstream for sure. But there is a convergence happening. I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV
I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Yeah, but ... My living room big picture that I watch from my easy chair happens to be my PC video server, not a TV. It's been over a year since I used a TV (which I define as a display box with a TV tuner built in). The living room PC has a couple TV tuner cards, Internet connection, and drives a big 48 display. Watch cable, programs previously recorded to disk (BeyondTV software is great with a half-terabyte drives), or Internet content. There's never even been a keyboard on this machine. If I wanna navigate there's a wireless mouse that sits on the hassock next to the tuner card remote controls. If I really need to type, I have to use a laptop with VNC. Essentially a TIVO on steroids. It's geek heaven! Secondly, if we are talking about IPTV bandwidth needs, we need to forecast that a 1.25Mbps sustained stream is necessary for one stream. Yeah, but ... Location Free, Slingbox, etc., do quite nicely on much much less BW. Is IPTV really that much of a hog that it needs 1.25Mbps? How could it possibly compete against products out there already that use only a tenth of this BW? Rich - Original Message - From: George Rogato To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV Nice easy reading here. http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=1264 Looks like the trend is towards video on demand. Here's a link: http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/4 We have a long way to go before this stuff is mainstream for sure. But there is a convergence happening. I myself don't want to watch a movie on my pc monitor. I like the comfort of a big picture in my easy chair. When I can do that with internet tv, it will be a lot more popular. Travis Johnson wrote: I can say that I have always been a gadget freak. I almost always have the newest toys (cell phones, laptops, two-way radios, etc.) and I usually play with them for a few months, and then put them on ebay. I am a technology freak. I love new things (like our newest toy, an 18ghz Dragonwave AirPair100). Call me what you will, but I like new technology. However, I can also tell you that I have a regular POTS line at home (pay $35/mo for all features like vmail, call waiting, etc.) and I also have DISH network at home. I would never consider using an internet connection for TV... EVER. VoIP works for some people (I can always tell when I'm talking to someone on a VoIP phone), but I can never see using my internet connection for TV... here are a few reasons: (1) The internet is very unstable. When people want to watch TV, they don't want excuses on why it's not working. Imagine the calls you would get when a person's internet, telephone and TV are all down because one of their PC's is infected with the latest virus or spyware. (2) I like having things seperate. Seperate bills is a slight issue, but with automatic billing now, it all comes out of the checking account automatically anyway. (3) I'm not tied to a single provider. If I want to switch my phone service or TV service to something different, I can. (4) With the free DVR's and 4 rooms hooked up for free from DISH and only $29.99 per month for 60+ channels, who is going to compete with that? How can anyone provide a sustained 4-6Mbps for up to 4 TV's to _every_ subscriber across their network (including the cableco or telco's). Even in a small town (say 5,000 population), if the cable company had 500 customers, that would be up to 1Gbps of bandwidth needed (50% utilization of the 500 subs). There is nobody that can support that right now... or even 3-5 years from now. Before everyone gets too excited about IPTV, we need to look at reality. Sure companies like Verizon are doing fiber to the house... we will never compete with that... but why try? We will never dominate our region... instead, we are happy to pick up the customers that are unhappy with the telco or cableco or other wireless provider and want internet that just works. That's what we do. Internet. That works. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: sigh having no viable options vs. having one's head buried in the sand are two totally different things. Boy I'm getting tired of being insulted for having a successful business! marlon - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 5:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] For George - just because you were thinking of me. All, Below is Ken's latest Blog post, still a work in progress, since George brought it up he
Re: [WISPA] IPTV 2007 Final Agenda Announced!
IPTV is such a losing proposition. At 4MB to 10MB per stream, how do you make $$? And most homes have more than one TV - so doouble or triple it. The content costs keep increasing - at the same time that episodes are available for download. The equipment is ridiculously expensive. Scale IS required. I just don't understand the focus on it. TV is a static market. You have to steal from someone else's pie to make money. Small MSO's are getting beat by DBS, because the cost to upgrade the head-end and cabling is too expensive to re-coup. Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. (813) 963-5884 Mike Delp wrote: Had to search all over the site to find the dates of the show. Feb 27, 28. You think they would advertise the dates more. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Fw: IPTV 2007 Final Agenda Announced! For anyone interested in going. marlon - Original Message - From: Greg Fawson To: 'Greg Fawson' Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: IPTV 2007 Final Agenda Announced! Friends and Colleagues, The IPTV 2007 Technology Conference agenda is now final! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
