Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your assumptions.

I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of 
putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on that 
process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our own 
show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some 
potential as a fund raiser.

What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed to 
put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show and 
then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not scale 
up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right 
now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in the 
day.

Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are willing 
to do it at no cost to us, and to help us build our membership up so 
that both sides will benefit.   They don't know much about the WISP 
business, so we have an opportunity to work with them to design a show 
that our members would all like to go to.They are going to do it on 
a much larger scale than what we had planned on doing, so we can spread 
WISPAs message beyond our own little community.Those are strong 
positives.  

Most importantly, we will not have to commit our money or manpower to 
the project.Money is not that big of a deal, but manpower is.We 
will not be able to put on a show with volunteer manpower, and it isn't 
really a question of just hiring someone because the job requirements go 
far beyond just being an ED type or a sales person.   These guys have a 
staff of people who specialize in this kind of work and can get it done 
more effectively and at a larger scale than we could ever dream of doing 
on our own.

All this being said - if the show is a flop, there will be an "out" so 
that we can go back to plan A next year if that is what needs to 
happen.   For 2010, it makes more sense to work with professionals to 
get a show put on.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> forwarding to the list.
>
> Matt/Forbes, can someone please set the list to reply to the list rather 
> than to the sender?  Thanks,
>
> Matt, understood.  I'd disagree with that plan of action though.  We need 
> our own show.  It should be a fund raiser for WISPA.
>
> Near as I can tell Ed's planning on more of an ISPCon type of a show.  I 
> believe we need more of a WISPCon kind of event.  Lower cost, more intimate 
> etc.
>
> I'd suggest that we step back and set a show date for later in the year.  It 
> shouldn't take more than a few months to put something together.  We know 
> who the vendors and attendees would be.  And we know, basically, what would 
> need to be presented.
>
> The members want a show.  The vendors want a show.  Someone just has to DO a 
> show.
>
> If we can't find anyone to run the effort that certainly changes things. 
> I'm not interested in that job (putting together a Dirtbike one for here 
> right now, it's not bad but does take time...) right now.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: 
> To: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
>
>   
>> Marlon,
>> The tentative plan with Ed's group is that we will put our efforts into 
>> his show, and that we will not be doing our own show as long as both sides 
>> are happy with the performance of his show.
>> Also, since we are not putting any money into it, there is no profit 
>> sharing.   They put in the money and the manpower, they get the profit, if 
>> there is any.   Our goal in this is to build up our membership numbers and 
>> leverage their promotional and marketing efforts to get the word out about 
>> WISPA and get people to the show so we can turn them into members.
>> This is going to end up similar to our agreement with ISPCON, but we will 
>> have more say in the structure and educational parts of the show.   Also, 
>> it should cost us little or no money.
>> Matt Larsen
>> vistabeam.com
>> Marlon K. Schafer writes:
>> 
>>> Hi Matt, In the end I still think we should have our own show. How clear 
>>> will it be made to Ed's group that we'll still be working to our own show 
>>> at a later date? Also, how are we going to insure that we don't end up 
>>> with the same problem we did with Charles for his first show?  Where 
>>> there is no profit to split?
>>> marlon - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:59 PM
>

Re: [WISPA] Semi-OT: Mobile phone platform questions

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

The Nokia N900 has an awesome remote desktop client and a real 
keyboard.   I'd take one of those over an iPhone any day.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com
wirelesscowboys.com
wispdirectory.com

Jerry Richardson wrote:
> WM6 has a kludgey implementation of VPN that I never could get to  
> work. The RD works well enough but is still limited.
>
> iPhone does VPN quite easily and there are more than a few RD apps  
> that work well.
>
> I'm guessing android probably does both well.
>
> Sent Mobile
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 8:00 AM, "Mike Hammett"   
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Do any of the mobile phone platforms support VPN at all from the  
>> phone itself?  Any have a Remote Desktop client?
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
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>> 
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hi Steve,

One of the conditions of WISPA supporting this show will be reduced 
costs for attendees.   The promoters want as many attendees as possible 
and I told them that $250 is about the upper limit of what most WISPs 
will pay to come to a show like this.   I'd like to see the non-WISPA 3 
day pass under $300 range, and the WISPA member 3day pass under $200.
We will be working on the details this month.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Steve Barnes wrote:
> Matt, the only question I have would be the cost to attendees, vendors and 
> WISPs?  I can attend computer shows all the time for $599 to $899 for  a 3 
> day show. I never do.  However, a $75 to $200 show I've attended several.  
> When we were starting talking about the show on the promotions list it was a 
> lot smaller and easy to price low.  What is this new groups price structure? 
>
> Steve Barnes
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:31 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your assumptions.
>
> I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of 
> putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on that 
> process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our own 
> show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some 
> potential as a fund raiser.
>
> What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed to 
> put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show and 
> then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not scale 
> up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right 
> now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in the 
> day.
>
> Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are willing 
> to do it at no cost to us, and to help us build our membership up so 
> that both sides will benefit.   They don't know much about the WISP 
> business, so we have an opportunity to work with them to design a show 
> that our members would all like to go to.They are going to do it on 
> a much larger scale than what we had planned on doing, so we can spread 
> WISPAs message beyond our own little community.Those are strong 
> positives.  
>
> Most importantly, we will not have to commit our money or manpower to 
> the project.Money is not that big of a deal, but manpower is.We 
> will not be able to put on a show with volunteer manpower, and it isn't 
> really a question of just hiring someone because the job requirements go 
> far beyond just being an ED type or a sales person.   These guys have a 
> staff of people who specialize in this kind of work and can get it done 
> more effectively and at a larger scale than we could ever dream of doing 
> on our own.
>
> All this being said - if the show is a flop, there will be an "out" so 
> that we can go back to plan A next year if that is what needs to 
> happen.   For 2010, it makes more sense to work with professionals to 
> get a show put on.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>   
>> forwarding to the list.
>>
>> Matt/Forbes, can someone please set the list to reply to the list rather 
>> than to the sender?  Thanks,
>>
>> Matt, understood.  I'd disagree with that plan of action though.  We need 
>> our own show.  It should be a fund raiser for WISPA.
>>
>> Near as I can tell Ed's planning on more of an ISPCon type of a show.  I 
>> believe we need more of a WISPCon kind of event.  Lower cost, more intimate 
>> etc.
>>
>> I'd suggest that we step back and set a show date for later in the year.  It 
>> shouldn't take more than a few months to put something together.  We know 
>> who the vendors and attendees would be.  And we know, basically, what would 
>> need to be presented.
>>
>> The members want a show.  The vendors want a show.  Someone just has to DO a 
>> show.
>>
>> If we can't find anyone to run the effort that certainly changes things. 
>> I'm not interested in that job (putting together a Dirtbike one for here 
>> right now, it's not bad but does take time...) right now.
>>
>> laters,
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: 
>> To: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Wi

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hi Martha,

There will be quite a bit for the Show Committee to work on.   Two 
things I know will be important right off the bat will be coming up with 
the educational tracks about WISPs and WISP technology, lining up 
speakers and organizing the WISPA Awards/Reception.There will be 
plenty to do!

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Martha Huizenga wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I'll be interested to see 1) how the show develops, and 2) the 
> pricing. I would also like to see the WISPA Show committee used to 
> help shape this show to something our members would like to attend. 
> We're here, we just need to be informed of what we should be doing.
>
> Martha
>
> Martha Huizenga
> DC Access, LLC <http://www.dcaccess.net>
> 202-546-5898
> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
> Join us on Facebook 
> <http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Washington-DC/DC-Access-LLC/64096486706?ref=ts>or
>  
> follow us on Twitter <http://twitter.com/dcaccess>
> /*
>
>
>
> Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> One of the conditions of WISPA supporting this show will be reduced 
>> costs for attendees.   The promoters want as many attendees as possible 
>> and I told them that $250 is about the upper limit of what most WISPs 
>> will pay to come to a show like this.   I'd like to see the non-WISPA 3 
>> day pass under $300 range, and the WISPA member 3day pass under $200.
>> We will be working on the details this month.
>>
>> Matt Larsen
>> vistabeam.com
>>
>>
>> Steve Barnes wrote:
>>   
>>> Matt, the only question I have would be the cost to attendees, vendors and 
>>> WISPs?  I can attend computer shows all the time for $599 to $899 for  a 3 
>>> day show. I never do.  However, a $75 to $200 show I've attended several.  
>>> When we were starting talking about the show on the promotions list it was 
>>> a lot smaller and easy to price low.  What is this new groups price 
>>> structure? 
>>>
>>> Steve Barnes
>>> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:31 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>>
>>> All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your assumptions.
>>>
>>> I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of 
>>> putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on that 
>>> process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our own 
>>> show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some 
>>> potential as a fund raiser.
>>>
>>> What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed to 
>>> put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show and 
>>> then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not scale 
>>> up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right 
>>> now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in the 
>>> day.
>>>
>>> Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are willing 
>>> to do it at no cost to us, and to help us build our membership up so 
>>> that both sides will benefit.   They don't know much about the WISP 
>>> business, so we have an opportunity to work with them to design a show 
>>> that our members would all like to go to.They are going to do it on 
>>> a much larger scale than what we had planned on doing, so we can spread 
>>> WISPAs message beyond our own little community.Those are strong 
>>> positives.  
>>>
>>> Most importantly, we will not have to commit our money or manpower to 
>>> the project.Money is not that big of a deal, but manpower is.We 
>>> will not be able to put on a show with volunteer manpower, and it isn't 
>>> really a question of just hiring someone because the job requirements go 
>>> far beyond just being an ED type or a sales person.   These guys have a 
>>> staff of people who specialize in this kind of work and can get it done 
>>> more effectively and at a larger scale than we could ever dream of doing 
>>> on our own.
>>>
>>> All this being said - if the show is a flop, there will be an "out&quo

[WISPA] Tech Support - Aaaarrrrggghhh!

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Here is an entertaining customer support related link to one of my 
employee's blog posts.  

http://www.happystinkingjoy.com/?p=556

Sounds pretty typical to me.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] [Board] Decision on WISPA Show

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

-Note-
WISPA is currently negotiating with a trade show group to participate in 
the development of a wireless broadband show. While the decision to do 
this is not yet finalized, the show group will decide the date/location 
of the show if that is the direction that we go in.
-Note-

I also thought that a midwestern location would be better for a show, 
especially since so many WISPs are within driving distance. However, I 
also thought that the Chicago spring 2008 ISPCON would be a rousing 
success, and it was a big dud. That may be due to a lot of other 
factors, but there just wasn't much of a turnout there. There are 
substantial external costs involved in doing a Midwestern show. Flights 
are generally expensive, transportation to/from the airport can be 
challenging and hotel rooms can get very pricey in the nicer venues. The 
trade show guys prefer Vegas because flights are cheap, rooms are cheap, 
transportation from the airport is readily available and cheap and there 
is plenty to do there outside of the show. Vegas will also "scale up" to 
accomodate a larger event. Not everyone is going to agree with Vegas as 
the destination, but it is as appropriate of a location as any.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com



Justin Wilson wrote:
> My .02
>
> I have been involved with the Gi Joe Collector’s club and their annual 
> show. Granted this is a Hobby based get together with a wider 
> audience. They routinely receive 3 to 5,000 visitors at each show. 
> However, they have concentrated their shows in central part of the 
> country as much as possible. Atlanta, St. Louis, Kansas City, and some 
> others over the past couple of years. The organizers will not do any 
> shows in California or even Las Vegas due to the poor turn out for 
> these past shows. The only reason they are doing something on the East 
> Coast this year is a tie in with the manufacturer.
>
> I might be comparing Apples to oranges but that’s my take.
> -- 
> Justin Wilson 
> /CCNA – CCNT – Mikrotik Advanced
> /http://j2sw.mtin.net/blog
>
>
> 
> *From: *Jeff Broadwick 
> *Reply-To: *WISPA General List 
> *Date: *Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:50:35 -0500
> *To: *'WISPA General List' , 'WISPA Board Members 
> List' , , 
> *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] [Board] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> You asked...
>
> Personally, I don't think that putting a small to medium sized show on is
> that big of a production. FISPA does it with minimal staff.
>
> I think you could hire someone to do the footwork, working with the 
> venues,
> sell the vendor sponsorships, etc. I know that Greg Boehnlein (ran Ohio
> LinuxFest for years) is available for contract work.
>
> IMHO, the best show that Wispa could do at this moment would be one that
> would:
>
> 1. Raise some money
> 2. Provide a fun environment for members and prospective members to meet,
> share ideas, and bond (think Wispcon 1-4)
> 3. Give a solid tech track and management track
> 4. Be in a central, relatively inexpensive venue with a reasonable sized
> airport (STL, Indy, Columbus, Grand Rapids, etc.)
>
> I do not think that hiring someone to manage this is the way to go. It 
> adds
> cost and (IMO) adds little value. Big shows are DYING. Smaller, well
> focused, regional shows are doing pretty well. I think the day will come
> when a big show will make sense, but not this year.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Rick Harnish
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:45 PM
> To: 'WISPA Board Members List'; 'WISPA General List'; memb...@wispa.org;
> wispas...@wispa.org
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Board] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>
> Butch, Members and Observers,
>
>
>
> There is a WISPA Board meeting this Thursday. Now is the time for all to
> weigh in on opinions on a WISPA Trade Show.
>
>
>
> I have met with one tradeshow developer with Matt and Forbes and have 
> spoken
> to several others by phone/email. There is great interest in outside
> parties working with WISPA to develop a show. It seems many of these
> options wish to leverage the WISPA reputation and branding to produce 
> a show
> which will be financially rewarding to private interests. The question is
> whether WISPA can produce and own its own show as a successful venture.
>
>
>
> Our lobbying costs have skyrocketed the last six months, there are 
> calls for
> an Executive Director by many and there is the cost of producing a
> tradeshow. Financially, WISPA is not in a position to do all three in my
> opinion. WISPA still needs to build membership or raise dues to accomplish
> all three of the above goals. It is another typical chicken and the egg
> dilemma. Give us your input.
>
>
>
> We can do anything we set our minds to; we have all proven that by 
> buil

Re: [WISPA] WISP's are killing themselves!!!! - New FCC form 477 report is out, not looking good for Fixed Wireless

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I will agree that it is not a good thing that we are not reporting our 
data.  

However

I did not submit my Form477 data until September, simply because I had 
no way to give them accurate data!   Generating the data by zip codes 
was easy, as all we had to do was take the zip codes from our billing or 
service location information, spit out a report and be on our way.   
Generating the codes by census tract was a nightmare, and I told the 
people at the FCC that I would not be submitting the data until I could 
get it as I did not have any way to provide it!

I don't think that I would be going out on a limb to say that I run a 
professional WISP operation, with good documentation, accurate billing 
and a high degree of technical expertise.   Until the definition of the 
Form477 form came out last year requiring census tract information, 
there was no requirement for maintaining census tract information.   
There is also no accurate way to geocode census tract information from 
address information, as we found out when we ran our customer addresses 
through a geolocation database and ended up with an approximate 50% 
accuracy rate.   So here is the result - I operate a professionally run, 
well documented WISP operation and I was unable to comply with the 
requirements of the report.   I did send multiple messages to the people 
at the FCC in charge of the 477 and let them know why I had not 
completed the report, and we finally ended up submitting the information 
on the second report of the year with a note on the application that 
indicated we felt the data submitted was partially inaccurate due to 
geocoding database errors and we would work on cleaning up our own data 
going forward.   I can only imagine what the burden of trying to get 
this information is for the WISP operators who don't have the kind of 
resources I have to work with.  

Start to finish, the census tract requirement was a damn mess.

Going forward, we are developing a 477 report program that will get our 
information out of Freeside and generate the appropriate 477 required 
data.   Right now, I have GPS coordinates for about 20% of my customers, 
and we have a page where employees can login and get a real-time list of 
all the customers that don't have GPS coordinates.   We are using a 
combination of geocode database lookups using their service address to 
determine the unknown GPS coordinates, and if that data is obviously 
incorrect, we use the driving directions combined with Google Earth to 
determine the correct location.   Each of my employees are taking some 
time to work on this and we anticipate having all of our legacy data 
updated by June 1.   It is a giant pain in the ass, but is somewhat 
mitigated by being able to take a few months and a little bit of time 
everyday to get it updated.That is the only way that I am going to 
be able to deliver accurate data.  

If the FCC went back to just asking for zip codes, the WISP subscriber 
number would probably be over 1 million.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Brian Webster wrote:
> The latest FCC report on form 477 broadband data is out
> (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296239A1.pdf). While
> I don't see a whole lot of useful data in it, I do see where WISP's are
> killing themselves and the industry, why?
>
>   a.. In the periods prior to the December 2008 report, fixed wireless has
> shown a steady increase in subscribers. The last reporting period the number
> of subscribers dropped from 808,000 to 488,000!!! That's a 39.6% drop in the
> actual data that had been previously reported. Know I know that most of the
> problem is the fact they now require census tract reporting rather than zip
> codes, but dropping like this does not help the industry as a whole.
>   b.. Because of the low number of reported subscribers, the reporting by
> technology portions of the report does not even earn fixed wireless a spot
> on the charts in it's own category. It's lumped in with the 1.4% total of
> all other technologies compared to the rest of the broadband industry. Hell
> Satellite has their own category with .9%.
>   c.. The total number of fixed wireless providers reporting is 617. That
> means there are a huge number of WISP's not filing form 477 and those that
> didn't report must have a large number of subscribers. The previous period
> where fixed wireless had 808,000 subscribers had only 505 WISP's report!
> Matt Larsen and the WISP directory have around 1,800 WISP's registered. I've
> heard other estimates between 2,000 and over 4,000. Only 617 fixed wireless
> operators reporting is not helping the cause at all.
>   d.. The National broadband plan is being formulated as we speak, looking
> at those statistics it appears the WISP industry is in a serious decline and
> that as a total percentage of broadband provided to consumers nationally,
> they make no significant difference.
> If you were a government policy maker, would you even pay att

[WISPA] Moisture Abatement Techniques

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Hey All,

So how do you guys avoid getting water/moisture in your gear?

I'm going to be standing up a 9 end-point network, with some Ubiquiti 
(Bullet2, Nanostation) gear, Directional & H-Pol Omni antennas, 
Polyphasers, Ethernet Lightning Arrestors, etc,.  I'm not going to be 
able to travel to the site again in at least a year; its a rainy part of 
the world, so I'd like to prevent any damage to the gear as much as 
possible.

Anything I should do to prevent moisture from getting into the gear? Or 
other protective measures... Teflon on the coax connectors, Electrical 
Tape on the Edges of the gear?  If there was a place I could see some 
pictures of the implementations that would be good too.

-Israel



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Re: [WISPA] Moisture Abatement Techniques

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions, looks like I got my 
shopping list for the Honduras install.

We are leaving March 12th, and if anyone is interested I can put 
pictures up of the install & the kids we are helping. 

Thanks again, WISPA is a great community and I love being part of it.

-Israel

Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> So how do you guys avoid getting water/moisture in your gear?
>
> I'm going to be standing up a 9 end-point network, with some Ubiquiti 
> (Bullet2, Nanostation) gear, Directional & H-Pol Omni antennas, 
> Polyphasers, Ethernet Lightning Arrestors, etc,.  I'm not going to be 
> able to travel to the site again in at least a year; its a rainy part of 
> the world, so I'd like to prevent any damage to the gear as much as 
> possible.
>
> Anything I should do to prevent moisture from getting into the gear? Or 
> other protective measures... Teflon on the coax connectors, Electrical 
> Tape on the Edges of the gear?  If there was a place I could see some 
> pictures of the implementations that would be good too.
>
> -Israel
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Modified Sine Inverter Acceptable

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Hey Guys,

For running commodity routers, radios, servers on a remote site, is 
using a modified sine wave acceptable?  I have some electrical engineers 
at the site im working on thinking of putting in a modified sine 
inverter, and joining them up with a large battery cache.

The question we raised was, will a modified sine wave be 
damaging/problematic for things like a Ubiquti Radio/POE Injector, small 
WRT54GL router, small switch, and two servers (300-400w each).

Let me know.

I searched the lists and found this, 
http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/2007-July/027900.html  but I 
didnt see the impact on the equipment there, just UPSes.

I am going from:

[very dirty mains 90-120v] - [battery charger] - [battery bank] - 
[inverter] --- outlets, [Equipment Transformers] - [Equipment]

Ideas?  Other power engineers on site brought along a Chicago Electric 
Inverter #95596 - 
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=95596

-Israel



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Re: [WISPA] HD Video across Wireless?

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

How many HD Channels? 720p, 1080i?

Is there coax running through the community?  Just as a thought 
exercise, I may get a few HD ATSC Hardware Cards, some hefty boxes, and 
use VLC to convert the video into a multicast stream, bridge it across 
the lake/valley, and reconstitute it into something useful on the other 
end.  Depending on how much bandwidth you can get (More the better + 
future growth), probably looking at at 100MPS link. (If you decide to 
compress the channels to lets say 15mbps).

I heard for awhile that my local cable company was using Winboxes + VLC 
and Video Capture cards to encode and distribute the analog video for 
their digital STB for awhile.  (Unknown source)

-Israel

AJ wrote:
> Any suggestions for carrying HD Video (ATSC over-the-air) across IP
> wireless?
>
> We're trying to bridge coverage in to a community that literally sits at the
> base of a ridge line, blocking direct OTA reception. We already pull down
> the standard definition content by satellite; the local broadcasters however
> are not carried in HD. I do have a site that has line of sight to both OTA
> broadcasters (about 50 miles away) and the valley where the headend is
> (about 2 miles across a lake).
>
>
> Anyone encounter a need to stream video like this?
>
> We've looked at ASI transport across fiber but our "lowest" bid was almost
> 28k... Not quite in the scope of the budget for the project.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] State Education Networks?

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

I had the chance to befriend a high-school IT guy (Quite stellar IT guy 
too), and I learned a lot from the processes there.  The education 
system in CA will historically go for Wired/Fiber based plants.  Usually 
due to FUD, about security, reliability, blah blah blah.

I hope you can get them to change their mind, especially considering the 
price difference.  Their big hang up may be a political opponent who may 
respond to any 'public' network problems as: "You see, you get what you 
pay for, you were cheap and tried (gasp) wireless!"

Out here in California, most is T1s/fiber direct into local network hubs 
those are usually school districts-HQs (smaller loops that way), then 
those link up to a bigger regional hub, and finally to the main hub; 
access to the internet originates from a single point for the whole 
network (afaik, I only know so-cal education nets).

They do this so they can implement district wide/state wide filtering, 
management, etc,. 

-Israel

Kevin Owen wrote:
> The State I provide service in (Idaho) is in the process of building a 
> Statewide Educational Network.  I am interested in hearing from any of you 
> are providing service in a State that has built a State Educational Network 
> and if so, are local providers used to provide any of the last miles services 
> to the schools?
>
> Idaho started by saying they would work with the local providers, however, 
> now they have changed their tune and local providers are not given the 
> opportunity to even bid on the service.  
>
> Qwest is charging at least 3 - 5 times what any of the other local ISP's 
> could or would charge for the same or more bandwidth.  We are simply told we 
> are not able to provide the service due to technical reasons, however, the 
> State thus far has not defined what those technical reasons are.  The 
> difference in cost per year is in the millions.
>
> Our State IT group is also saying this is how it is done in other states to 
> provide a quality and cost effective network. 
>
> So does anybody provide any last mile services to any Statewide educational 
> network?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
> First Step Internet, LLC
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] HD Video across Wireless?

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Well,

This looks promising, I did a google search for ATSC to IP.  
http://www.computermodules.com/broadcast-systems/8VSB-ATSC-to-IP.html

-Israel

AJ wrote:
> At this point, there are a total of (6) ATSC carriers we're trying to pull
> down in 1080i. Once they're over on the other side of the lake, we can use
> narrowcast transmitters back from our old headend site back to the new
> headend where it can be distributed across fiber to the nodes then coax back
> in to the community.
>
> Know of any off the shelf options for ATSC or even just native HDMI/DVI HD
> video in to IP out?
>
> Windows Box *might* work but the concern would be failure in the winter
> where it would be located - either helo or snow cat to access October-May...
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Israel Lopez-LISTS <
> ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> How many HD Channels? 720p, 1080i?
>>
>> Is there coax running through the community?  Just as a thought
>> exercise, I may get a few HD ATSC Hardware Cards, some hefty boxes, and
>> use VLC to convert the video into a multicast stream, bridge it across
>> the lake/valley, and reconstitute it into something useful on the other
>> end.  Depending on how much bandwidth you can get (More the better +
>> future growth), probably looking at at 100MPS link. (If you decide to
>> compress the channels to lets say 15mbps).
>>
>> I heard for awhile that my local cable company was using Winboxes + VLC
>> and Video Capture cards to encode and distribute the analog video for
>> their digital STB for awhile.  (Unknown source)
>>
>> -Israel
>>
>> AJ wrote:
>> 
>>> Any suggestions for carrying HD Video (ATSC over-the-air) across IP
>>> wireless?
>>>
>>> We're trying to bridge coverage in to a community that literally sits at
>>>   
>> the
>> 
>>> base of a ridge line, blocking direct OTA reception. We already pull down
>>> the standard definition content by satellite; the local broadcasters
>>>   
>> however
>> 
>>> are not carried in HD. I do have a site that has line of sight to both
>>>   
>> OTA
>> 
>>> broadcasters (about 50 miles away) and the valley where the headend is
>>> (about 2 miles across a lake).
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone encounter a need to stream video like this?
>>>
>>> We've looked at ASI transport across fiber but our "lowest" bid was
>>>   
>> almost
>> 
>>> 28k... Not quite in the scope of the budget for the project.
>>>
>>> Suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
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>> 
>> 
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>>>
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>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
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>
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[WISPA] Channel Recommendation & Gel Filled Ethernet

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Hey Guys,

Trying to choose the best channel for a new installation.  
http://ewbhonduras.tumblr.com/post/450395382/1hr-wispy-rf-2-4-capture-from-the-horizontal

This is what I see, I attached the WiSPY along with a laptop, and 
mounted both on the tower we are planning on using for one hour.  Then 
brought the laptop down.

Any suggestions?

Also, what is the best way to handle crimping gel-filled cat5e cable?  
We are having a heck of a time with the ends slipping off and the 
individual conductors slipping out.

-Israel



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[WISPA] Interesting...

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Clearwire steals the show at CTIA

http://www.muniwireless.com/2010/03/24/how-sprint-and-clearwire-stole-the-show-at-ctia/

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com



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[WISPA] Thank You to WISPA - Education Network in Honduras

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Hey All,

I wanted to thank the WISPA community for being quite helpful and 
generous.  I have been leading a team to implement/replace an aging 
wireless network in Honduras for three schools and their volunteer 
homes.  It has been a long year and a half, but it has paid off. 

They had 9 locations, 800kbps-3mbps throughput, 100-400ms latency, and 
+20% loss.
Now they have: 9 Locations, 12mbps throughput, 1-4ms latency, between 
0-2% packet loss at the schools, and 1-10% packet loss at the volunteer 
homes. 

In the year after our April 2009 assessment trip we spent time planning, 
designing, and running dry runs, we still had to adapt to what was 'on 
the ground.' It was a challenge properly grounding our 40meter tower, 
installing the equipment at the various locations, battling contractor 
costs, freak lightning storms, and a last minute show stopper with 
routing loops.

In the end the schools have a better platform for education & 
technology, and we hope to support them through the entire process of 
technology in the hands of the kids.

I will be presenting the implementation story to a local user group here 
in Southern California, I will have the presentation recorded if you all 
are interested I will make the link available.

As promised I have some implementation pictures to share.
http://picasaweb.google.com/israel.lopez/HondurasAllPics#

This was one of the first Wireless projects with Engineers Without 
Borders, we are quite proud of the people that have volunteered to help 
remotely, and in country.  I personally would like to see more 
Technology Engineering projects in developing countries, so if you think 
you can help, visit one of your local EWB Professional chapters, talk to 
them, see if technology may be something their communities may need.  
http://ewb-usa.org/chapters.php.

In support of technology projects/professionals in EWB I have created 
http://EWBTechies.org if you become a member, please join and let us 
know how you want to help!

Special Thanks goes to:
Ubiquiti Networks - Donated some radios & helped us RMA a unit right 
before we left LAX
WLANMall.com - For the WiSPY 2.4x that we won for our school
Western Digital - Donation of USB Hard Drives for Backup of our Servers 
& Critical Data

Thank You,

Israel Lopez



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[WISPA] Bandwidth Tracking Solutions

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hello list,

I am looking for a solution that will keep track of the monthly 
bandwidth consumption for all of my broadband customers and am having a 
hard time coming up with a good solution.  

Our goal is to collect the traffic flows every 15 minutes and generate 
three things:

1)  Internal reports showing bandwidth consumption by customers and 
that is in a database form that we can perform queries on
2)  Data that can be exported to our customer portal page that will 
show customers how much bandwidth they have consumed since the first of 
each month
3)  A batch file showing customers over their thresholds that we can 
import into our billing system (Freeside) at the end of the month so we 
can bill overages

Our system is setup as follows:
   
1)  StarOS access points
2)  OSPF backbone back to two separate 50 meg Internet backbone links
3)  Mikrotik core routers at each backbone location
4)  StarOS routers performing NAT at each backbone location
5)  Mikrotik edge routers connected to the Internet backbone

Radius accounting is not an option, due to inaccurate IP accounting 
information returned by the StarOS APs.   PPPoE is also not an option as 
we have 2000+ customers in place and not all of the hardware would 
easily convert to PPPoE.

Ideally, the data should be collectable at the Mikrotik core routers, as 
that is the place where all of the private IP traffic is still in its 
pre-NAT status.   We have been trying to keep track of it with Netflow 
data from our Mikrotik core routers, but it does not seem to be accurate 
and there are documented problems with the Mikrotik Netflow exports.  We 
have confirmed that the data we have been collecting is not accurate, 
and I have no intention on billing a customer based on inaccurate data.

We have a couple of reporting engines that we have tried, with mixed 
levels of success.   I did contact Brandon Checketts about his program, 
which was close to what we wanted, but it is out of date and he was not 
responsive so our efforts are focused on either using something open 
source that we can modify or just buying an appliance that will do what 
we need.   My preference is to go open source because we have multiple 
backbone connections and also because I have several consulting 
customers who want to have similar setups put in place on their 
networks.   Also, I want to make sure that this is "revenue neutral" and 
can pay for for itself in the overage billing after it is installed.

We can install either a switch or a transparent bandwidth monitoring 
server of some kind between the core and NAT servers to collect the data 
flows.My lead tech and I are both Linux savvy, and would prefer 
something that runs on Linux.  

I recall that Travis Johnson posted a description of an open source, 
linux-based system that he uses to track bandwidth, but I cannot find 
the email where he lays all of the elements out.   Does anyone have any 
recommendations for this situation?

Thanks!

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Tracking Solutions

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

That is a great link!   I don't think it will solve my immediate 
problem,  but I may look at using this to replace our current Cacti 
server at some point.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


On 3/30/2010 1:30 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote:
> Matt -
>
> I almost forgot the link
>
> http://cactiez.cactiusers.org/
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
>
>
>> I am looking for a solution that will keep track of the monthly
>> bandwidth consumption for all of my broadband customers and am having a
>> hard time coming up with a good solution.
>>
>> Our goal is to collect the traffic flows every 15 minutes and generate
>> three things:
>>
>> 1)  Internal reports showing bandwidth consumption by customers and
>>  
> _
> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>
>
>
> 
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>




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Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Tracking Solutions

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

IPTrack is Brandon Checkett's program, and we did experiment with it, 
but it doesn't do exactly what we are looking for, and we were concerned 
about its apparent lack of any new development.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


On 3/30/2010 1:32 PM, Scott Reed wrote:
> If you can run IPTrack (see some of Marlon's previous posts) you have
> have the MTs report by IP address back to the server.
> I  have done this on my network, though it is not running right now.  I
> would be glad to help if you opt to go this way.
>
> Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
>
>> Hello list,
>>
>> I am looking for a solution that will keep track of the monthly
>> bandwidth consumption for all of my broadband customers and am having a
>> hard time coming up with a good solution.
>>
>> Our goal is to collect the traffic flows every 15 minutes and generate
>> three things:
>>
>>  1)  Internal reports showing bandwidth consumption by customers and
>> that is in a database form that we can perform queries on
>>  2)  Data that can be exported to our customer portal page that will
>> show customers how much bandwidth they have consumed since the first of
>> each month
>>  3)  A batch file showing customers over their thresholds that we can
>> import into our billing system (Freeside) at the end of the month so we
>> can bill overages
>>
>> Our system is setup as follows:
>>
>>  1)  StarOS access points
>>  2)  OSPF backbone back to two separate 50 meg Internet backbone links
>>  3)  Mikrotik core routers at each backbone location
>>  4)  StarOS routers performing NAT at each backbone location
>>  5)  Mikrotik edge routers connected to the Internet backbone
>>
>> Radius accounting is not an option, due to inaccurate IP accounting
>> information returned by the StarOS APs.   PPPoE is also not an option as
>> we have 2000+ customers in place and not all of the hardware would
>> easily convert to PPPoE.
>>
>> Ideally, the data should be collectable at the Mikrotik core routers, as
>> that is the place where all of the private IP traffic is still in its
>> pre-NAT status.   We have been trying to keep track of it with Netflow
>> data from our Mikrotik core routers, but it does not seem to be accurate
>> and there are documented problems with the Mikrotik Netflow exports.  We
>> have confirmed that the data we have been collecting is not accurate,
>> and I have no intention on billing a customer based on inaccurate data.
>>
>> We have a couple of reporting engines that we have tried, with mixed
>> levels of success.   I did contact Brandon Checketts about his program,
>> which was close to what we wanted, but it is out of date and he was not
>> responsive so our efforts are focused on either using something open
>> source that we can modify or just buying an appliance that will do what
>> we need.   My preference is to go open source because we have multiple
>> backbone connections and also because I have several consulting
>> customers who want to have similar setups put in place on their
>> networks.   Also, I want to make sure that this is "revenue neutral" and
>> can pay for for itself in the overage billing after it is installed.
>>
>> We can install either a switch or a transparent bandwidth monitoring
>> server of some kind between the core and NAT servers to collect the data
>> flows.My lead tech and I are both Linux savvy, and would prefer
>> something that runs on Linux.
>>
>> I recall that Travis Johnson posted a description of an open source,
>> linux-based system that he uses to track bandwidth, but I cannot find
>> the email where he lays all of the elements out.   Does anyone have any
>> recommendations for this situation?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Matt Larsen
>> vistabeam.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>  
>




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Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Tracking Solutions

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

StarOS is NATting at each backbone location - that is why I wanted to 
put this collection in place between the core router and the NAT router 
so it can see the customer data in its native (pre-NATted) state.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


On 3/30/2010 1:34 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> Scott,
>
> 4)  StarOS routers performing NAT at each backbone location
>
> It's StarOS NATing the customers off of the backbone.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Scott Reed  
> wrote:
>
>> If you can run IPTrack (see some of Marlon's previous posts) you have
>> have the MTs report by IP address back to the server.
>> I  have done this on my network, though it is not running right now.  I
>> would be glad to help if you opt to go this way.
>>
>> Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
>>  
>>> Hello list,
>>>
>>> I am looking for a solution that will keep track of the monthly
>>> bandwidth consumption for all of my broadband customers and am having a
>>> hard time coming up with a good solution.
>>>
>>> Our goal is to collect the traffic flows every 15 minutes and generate
>>> three things:
>>>
>>>  1)  Internal reports showing bandwidth consumption by customers and
>>> that is in a database form that we can perform queries on
>>>  2)  Data that can be exported to our customer portal page that will
>>> show customers how much bandwidth they have consumed since the first of
>>> each month
>>>  3)  A batch file showing customers over their thresholds that we can
>>> import into our billing system (Freeside) at the end of the month so we
>>> can bill overages
>>>
>>> Our system is setup as follows:
>>>
>>>  1)  StarOS access points
>>>  2)  OSPF backbone back to two separate 50 meg Internet backbone links
>>>  3)  Mikrotik core routers at each backbone location
>>>  4)  StarOS routers performing NAT at each backbone location
>>>  5)  Mikrotik edge routers connected to the Internet backbone
>>>
>>> Radius accounting is not an option, due to inaccurate IP accounting
>>> information returned by the StarOS APs.   PPPoE is also not an option as
>>> we have 2000+ customers in place and not all of the hardware would
>>> easily convert to PPPoE.
>>>
>>> Ideally, the data should be collectable at the Mikrotik core routers, as
>>> that is the place where all of the private IP traffic is still in its
>>> pre-NAT status.   We have been trying to keep track of it with Netflow
>>> data from our Mikrotik core routers, but it does not seem to be accurate
>>> and there are documented problems with the Mikrotik Netflow exports.  We
>>> have confirmed that the data we have been collecting is not accurate,
>>> and I have no intention on billing a customer based on inaccurate data.
>>>
>>> We have a couple of reporting engines that we have tried, with mixed
>>> levels of success.   I did contact Brandon Checketts about his program,
>>> which was close to what we wanted, but it is out of date and he was not
>>> responsive so our efforts are focused on either using something open
>>> source that we can modify or just buying an appliance that will do what
>>> we need.   My preference is to go open source because we have multiple
>>> backbone connections and also because I have several consulting
>>> customers who want to have similar setups put in place on their
>>> networks.   Also, I want to make sure that this is "revenue neutral" and
>>> can pay for for itself in the overage billing after it is installed.
>>>
>>> We can install either a switch or a transparent bandwidth monitoring
>>> server of some kind between the core and NAT servers to collect the data
>>> flows.My lead tech and I are both Linux savvy, and would prefer
>>> something that runs on Linux.
>>>
>>> I recall that Travis Johnson posted a description of an open source,
>>> linux-based system that he uses to track bandwidth, but I cannot find
>>> the email where he lays all of the elements out.   Does anyone have any
>>> recommendations for this situation?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Matt Larsen
>>> vistabeam.com
>>>

Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Tracking Solutions

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hi Josh,

I'm wanting to track how much each individual customers is using so I 
can bill the ones that go over our bandwidth cap.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


On 3/30/2010 1:57 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> I think we need to find out if "I am looking for a solution that will
> keep track of the monthly bandwidth consumption for all of my
> broadband customers..." means how much you're entire upstream is using
> or how much each customer is using individually so you can find the
> top few heavy users.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Scott Reed  
> wrote:
>
>> 3)  Mikrotik core routers at each backbone location
>> I took it that all traffic goes through these as well.
>>
>> Matt, does all your traffic run through an MT somewhere on its way out?
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>  
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> 4)  StarOS routers performing NAT at each backbone location
>>>
>>> It's StarOS NATing the customers off of the backbone.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
>>> continue that counts.”
>>> --- Winston Churchill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Scott Reed  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you can run IPTrack (see some of Marlon's previous posts) you have
>>>> have the MTs report by IP address back to the server.
>>>> I  have done this on my network, though it is not running right now.  I
>>>> would be glad to help if you opt to go this way.
>>>>
>>>> Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking for a solution that will keep track of the monthly
>>>>> bandwidth consumption for all of my broadband customers and am having a
>>>>> hard time coming up with a good solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our goal is to collect the traffic flows every 15 minutes and generate
>>>>> three things:
>>>>>
>>>>>  1)  Internal reports showing bandwidth consumption by customers and
>>>>> that is in a database form that we can perform queries on
>>>>>  2)  Data that can be exported to our customer portal page that will
>>>>> show customers how much bandwidth they have consumed since the first of
>>>>> each month
>>>>>  3)  A batch file showing customers over their thresholds that we can
>>>>> import into our billing system (Freeside) at the end of the month so we
>>>>> can bill overages
>>>>>
>>>>> Our system is setup as follows:
>>>>>
>>>>>  1)  StarOS access points
>>>>>  2)  OSPF backbone back to two separate 50 meg Internet backbone links
>>>>>  3)  Mikrotik core routers at each backbone location
>>>>>  4)  StarOS routers performing NAT at each backbone location
>>>>>  5)  Mikrotik edge routers connected to the Internet backbone
>>>>>
>>>>> Radius accounting is not an option, due to inaccurate IP accounting
>>>>> information returned by the StarOS APs.   PPPoE is also not an option as
>>>>> we have 2000+ customers in place and not all of the hardware would
>>>>> easily convert to PPPoE.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ideally, the data should be collectable at the Mikrotik core routers, as
>>>>> that is the place where all of the private IP traffic is still in its
>>>>> pre-NAT status.   We have been trying to keep track of it with Netflow
>>>>> data from our Mikrotik core routers, but it does not seem to be accurate
>>>>> and there are documented problems with the Mikrotik Netflow exports.  We
>>>>> have confirmed that the data we have been collecting is not accurate,
>>>>> and I have no intention on billing a customer based on inaccurate data.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a couple of reporting engines that we have tried, with mixed
>>&g

Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth Tracking Solutions

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Actually, I could potentially do it from the Mikrotik router at the 
core, behind the StarOS NAT server.   Only problem is that the NetFlow 
collector on Mikrotik is broken.   That is why we are leaning toward 
something between the core and NAT servers to collect the data.

Queues will not work, as I would have to put 2000+ queues into that box 
and they are unnecessary because we have queues in the StarOS APs doing 
the bandwidth control further out.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


On 3/30/2010 2:27 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> Then you will need to find a solution with StarOS.  Can you maybe set
> a single queue for each customer and then obtain that via SNMP?
>
> I'm totally unfamiliar with StarOS.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue that counts.”
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists
>   wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh,
>>
>> I'm wanting to track how much each individual customers is using so I
>> can bill the ones that go over our bandwidth cap.
>>
>> Matt Larsen
>> vistabeam.com
>>
>>
>> On 3/30/2010 1:57 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>  
>>> I think we need to find out if "I am looking for a solution that will
>>> keep track of the monthly bandwidth consumption for all of my
>>> broadband customers..." means how much you're entire upstream is using
>>> or how much each customer is using individually so you can find the
>>> top few heavy users.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
>>> continue that counts.”
>>> --- Winston Churchill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Scott Reed
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> 3)  Mikrotik core routers at each backbone location
>>>> I took it that all traffic goes through these as well.
>>>>
>>>> Matt, does all your traffic run through an MT somewhere on its way out?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>> Scott,
>>>>>
>>>>>  4)  StarOS routers performing NAT at each backbone location
>>>>>
>>>>> It's StarOS NATing the customers off of the backbone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>>
>>>>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
>>>>> continue that counts.”
>>>>> --- Winston Churchill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Scott Reed   
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can run IPTrack (see some of Marlon's previous posts) you have
>>>>>> have the MTs report by IP address back to the server.
>>>>>> I  have done this on my network, though it is not running right now.  I
>>>>>> would be glad to help if you opt to go this way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am looking for a solution that will keep track of the monthly
>>>>>>> bandwidth consumption for all of my broadband customers and am having a
>>>>>>> hard time coming up with a good solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our goal is to collect the traffic flows every 15 minutes and generate
>>>>>>> three things:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   1)  Internal reports showing bandwidth consumption by customers 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> that is in a database form that we can perform queries on
>>>>>>>   2)  Data that can be exported to our customer portal page that 
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> show customers

Re: [WISPA] Speaking of Tranzeo......

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I have had issues on FM Towers that cause problems with ethernet - not 
just with Tranzeo either.   We are getting ready to run fiber up an FM 
tower in the next two weeks to resolve ongoing ethernet issues.   One of 
the FM stations most likely has an antenna going bad that is causing the 
problem.   Same thing happened last year, and two weeks after we ran the 
fiber, the main FM antenna at that tower burned up, with holes melted 
through the connectors at the bottom.They were lucky it didn't burst 
into flames.

Tranzeo's ethernet setup is actually pretty robust.   There is a ferrite 
bead inside on the ethernet jumper and it does seem to make it work 
better than a few other radios I have used.

Matt Larsen
mlar...@vistabeam.com


On 3/31/2010 3:13 PM, Stuart Pierce wrote:
> Ok router swapped out for a different mfg ? You didn't specifically say you 
> replaced the poe, just power supply.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Kosinet Wireless"
> Reply-To: WISPA General List
> Date:  Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:22:41 -0400
>
>
>> We've been primarily an Alvarion WISP in the past, but decided to use higher
>> speed / lower cost gear for our expansion. Went with the Tranzeo 2.4 stuff
>> for a new POP recently. Connected our first Client out there. After we read
>> all of the words and realized that Vertical Polarity was the "other" way, we
>> now have great signal.  :-)
>>
>> The problem is, we're losing Ethernet connectivity on the inside to the
>> Router. About every 10-15 minutes, it drops off, then comes back on its own
>> after about 5 minutes. We've replaced Radios, Cable Ends, Power Supply,
>> Router, Changed IP Addresses - Still drops off.
>>
>> It's a TR-CPQ unit in bridged mode - Any time that the Router is "off-line",
>> I can still access the Radio.
>>
>> Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
>>
>> -Gary-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
>>  
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Blocking UDP traffic

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

While working on our bandwidth monitoring system, we noticed a lot of 
strange traffic that had no apparent route through our system, but was 
coming across the wire between our core router and our NAT router.   The 
traffic would be destined for addresses like '192.168.0.10', 
'192.168.4.5' and the like.I couldn't understand how this traffic 
was even getting this far across our network, as it is fully routed and 
none of these subnets are even in our routing tables.   We do use 
192.168.x.x addresses to give to our customers but they are from 
192.168.33.0 to 192.168.255.0, and this traffic was definitely not 
destined for legitimate hosts on our network.

As we watched one IP address that was spewing this traffic, we looked it 
up and found out that it was actually sourced from the wireless 
connection at my home.   The traffic was UDP packets of SNMP destined to 
a 192.168.4.x address (internal to our main office) and a 192.168.5.x 
address (internal at my wife's studio).After shutting down all of 
the PCs at home, she turned her laptop back on and the traffic started 
up again.   Turns out that she had two Brother printer drivers for older 
printers that were mapped to TCP/IP ports.   We used to have a VPN box 
at home to tie into those networks, but took it out about a year ago and 
now just have a Belkin router that does the NAT for the house.   With 
the VPN gone, apparently the printer drivers were still sending out SNMP 
traffic with UDP and somehow that traffic was getting through our NAT 
router and going into our network.   Once the printer drivers were 
deleted, the traffic stopped.

After we removed the filter for my IP, we started seeing all kinds of 
similar UDP traffic coming across the wire from many different 
customers, mostly intended for IP addresses on the 192.168.0.0 and 
192.168.1.0 networks.   So now I'm trying to figure out a way to block 
this traffic at the AP so that it doesn't consume backbone resources.   
I can only imagine how much of the traffic on our network is this kind 
of garbage.

There are a couple of catches here.   We use StarOS APs, but connection 
tracking is turned off to save on CPU, so I don't think that I can do 
any of the standard firewalling on the APs.   We do use Mikrotik routers 
in our NOC and a couple of spots where we have licensed links, bu since 
StarOS is on our APs and our backhauls and also handles all of our OSPF 
routing - the traffic will go a long way before it gets blocked by anything.

My initial thought is that we could just setup a static route of 
192.168.0.0/19 to 127.0.0.1 on each access point.   Then that traffic 
basically goes to /dev/null.

Anyone else have any ideas on how to handle this?

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] Stimulus waste

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I filed 32 protests during the first round of the stimulus plan, and 
none of them were funded.

Protest long and protest often.   From what I have seen so far, most of 
the frivolous projects have been rejected handily.   Don't get all 
worked up about the "waste" until it finally comes to pass.   It was 
pretty clear from looking at the first round apps that there were a lot 
of stupid, wasteful applications.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


On 4/7/2010 7:29 PM, Jeromie Reeves wrote:
> 
>
>
> Thats 26 Y E A R S of my higher end tier of service, per customer.
>
> Why the #3!! do things not get BID out? "Who can do X users for the lowest $"
> I mean come on, that is just horrible. It doesnt even factor in what
> those new users
> will be paying for the service. I need to find out if they have
> applies for my area, I
> manage client networks with qwest dsl and they have been giving some BS about
> upgrading modems (for a /mo fee) when all the sites have adsl2+ modems. Not 
> good
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> So, as I said since the Broadband Stimulus act was passed, the money
>> will be wasted. Qwest just applied for $467 MILLION dollars to upgrade
>> their DSL infrastructure in my coverage areas. They want to expand and
>> "upgrade the slower 7meg connections" to go up to "12 to 40 megabytes
>> per second".
>>
>> The article says they will increase coverage to 29,922 new customers.
>> That's an average cost of $15,607 PER CUSTOMER.
>>
>> Many of the areas they list (Idaho Falls, Rexburg, Ammon, Blackfoot,
>> Rigby, Shelley, etc.) already have at least 3 providers and some have 4
>> or 5 provider choices.
>>
>> Let the waste begin :(
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>>  
>
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Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review...

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Sorry Travis, but you are dead wrong about 802.11 not being able to 
scale beyond 20 users, especially with 802.11a.   I explained how it can 
be done to you before and I have consulting clients with 10,000 plus 
users on their 802.11 based networks scaling right up to the same size 
as any Canopy or Trango network.You might not be able to get to 150 
subs per AP, but you can certainly hit 50-75 per sector and offer 
service that is damn close and a far sight cheaper than what Canopy will 
do.  I would take a StarOS a/b/g network over a Canopy system every day 
of the week.

As far as problems at AF09 - that is what you get when Canopy guys are 
running an 802.11 network.   If I was running it with the proven 
equipment and deployment methods that many of us use on 802.11 networks, 
there would not have been any such problems.Just because the AF09 
guys couldn't figure it out (or more likely didn't bother to try) 
doesn't mean that it can't be done right.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Travis Johnson wrote:
> The problem will be that they are still plain 802.11 technology. There 
> is no polling or ARQ or FEC or anything else that makes technology like 
> Trango, Canopy and others work so well. We pulled all of our 802.11 
> stuff down over 5 years ago. It does NOT scale. You will never get an AP 
> with reliable, consistent service with more than 20 users.
>
> In fact, I think we witnessed this at AF09. Everyone connected to the 
> same AP (48 I think was the count) and we continually got disconnected 
> and the speeds and latency were terrible. Could there be a better "real 
> world" experience than that? :)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>   
>> All I can do is shake my head. Ubiquity seems to have acquired some
>> Area51 technology. 
>>
>>
>>  
>>  
>> __ 
>> Jerry Richardson 
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:42 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review...
>>
>> I deployed my first Bullet5 today.   Not the high power, but the
>> standard.
>>
>> throughput testing showed insignificant difference between my
>> Star-OS/WAR1 
>> combo and the Bullet.   The AP shows that the Bullet has active
>> compression 
>> and fast frames that functions with my star-os access point.
>>
>> I have not tried the narrower channels to see if they're compatible with
>> my star-os AP's.
>>
>> They have been certified with up to 30 db antennas.
>>
>> Summary...  1 bullet5,  1 pacwireless 25 db grid w/pigtail, 1 universal 
>> mount = very cheap 5 ghz cpe - about $130 - 140 complete.   Even
>> nicer???
>>
>> The bullet slides down INTO the universal mount pipe, becoming invisible
>> after you mount and aim it.
>>
>>  Just FYI...  The Bullet does NAT and has a DHCP server built in.   No
>> need 
>> for a router, allows you to have a fully routed network.
>>
>> Opinion I like them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>   
>> 
>
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Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review...

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Travis,

Ok, I'm game.

First of all, a plain 802.11g wireless AP should be thrown in the junk 
pile and replaced with StarOS or MT.Depending on the quality of 
signal and modulation rates from the majority of the users, I would have 
also removed some of the higher mods to reduce rate shifts.   And then, 
I would have set up bandwidth profiles for each user to something in the 
1meg down/512K up range.   That would pretty much fix the bandwidth and 
latency problem.

When I do your upload test, I don't have the same problems.  I do 
bandwidth control in the access point, and with upload rates set to half 
of the download rates, I have no problem putting 50 to 75 users on one 
AP and still provide good download speeds (1meg/2meg/4meg packages) with 
decent latency (20-40ms latency at peaks) and no packet loss.   That is 
also with quite a few VOIP users who would be howling if the service 
didn't work.

BTW, Canopy radios at $160 are double the cost of a NanoStation.   
Canopy with a reflector is 3x the cost of a Bullet5 and 26db grid.   
StarOS APs are at least 1/4th the cost of a comparable Canopy AP.   

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Travis Johnson wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I know we have already discussed this several times, and I'm not sure 
> we need to do it again... but maybe you could explain how you could 
> have setup a plain 802.11g wireless AP so that each client (using all 
> different kinds of wireless adapters) could have gotten equal 
> bandwidth and latency at AF09?
>
> And, once again, I have done test after test after test using 802.11 
> stuff... and every single time (using Mikrotik without Nstreme, using 
> StarOS, using OSBridge and using Nanostations) if we setup an AP and 
> we connect two clients with laptops and start a continuous upload, the 
> other client is basically dead in the water. Even if we limit the 
> upload to 2Mbps or 3Mbps, when that client starts the upload, the 
> other client has very high latency, very bad download speeds, etc.
>
> As for price on Canopy vs. 802.11... things are not always as they 
> seem. I know of a large Canopy operator that is buying radios for $160 
> each. ;)
>
> And, we have Trango AP's that only deliver 5Mbps total with 128 
> clients and we deliver 4ms latency to every single client.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
>> Sorry Travis, but you are dead wrong about 802.11 not being able to 
>> scale beyond 20 users, especially with 802.11a.   I explained how it can 
>> be done to you before and I have consulting clients with 10,000 plus 
>> users on their 802.11 based networks scaling right up to the same size 
>> as any Canopy or Trango network.You might not be able to get to 150 
>> subs per AP, but you can certainly hit 50-75 per sector and offer 
>> service that is damn close and a far sight cheaper than what Canopy will 
>> do.  I would take a StarOS a/b/g network over a Canopy system every day 
>> of the week.
>>
>> As far as problems at AF09 - that is what you get when Canopy guys are 
>> running an 802.11 network.   If I was running it with the proven 
>> equipment and deployment methods that many of us use on 802.11 networks, 
>> there would not have been any such problems.Just because the AF09 
>> guys couldn't figure it out (or more likely didn't bother to try) 
>> doesn't mean that it can't be done right.
>>
>> Matt Larsen
>> vistabeam.com
>>
>>
>> Travis Johnson wrote:
>>   
>>> The problem will be that they are still plain 802.11 technology. There 
>>> is no polling or ARQ or FEC or anything else that makes technology like 
>>> Trango, Canopy and others work so well. We pulled all of our 802.11 
>>> stuff down over 5 years ago. It does NOT scale. You will never get an AP 
>>> with reliable, consistent service with more than 20 users.
>>>
>>> In fact, I think we witnessed this at AF09. Everyone connected to the 
>>> same AP (48 I think was the count) and we continually got disconnected 
>>> and the speeds and latency were terrible. Could there be a better "real 
>>> world" experience than that? :)
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>>   
>>> 
>>>> All I can do is shake my head. Ubiquity seems to have acquired some
>>>> Area51 technology. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> __ 
>>>> Jerry Richardson 
>>>> airCloud Communications
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: wirel

Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review...

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Preparing to launch the Holy War Hand Grenade.:^)

On the AF09 wireless, I am just following the terms you gave me as a 
"typical example of 802.11 not scaling".   If there is only one access 
point for 50 users, then yes - cap it at 1Mbps.   How much do temporary 
users need?   If they needed 10meg, I would have deployed three 
802.11b/g APs on different channels with different ESSIDs, and an 
802.11a AP.   A single X4000 board with StarOS and four omni antennas 
would have handled that just fine while delivering 5meg or so per 
client.  But your real world example was a single AP.  If someone wants 
to bottleneck a 300Mbps link with a single AP and then point out how bad 
that single AP performs, that is just bad network design and you can't 
hold 802.11 to blame for the problem.

As far as polling goes, it just has not proven to be necessary to 
provide a quality level of service in many cases, including 99.9% of my 
customers.  Note that I did not say ALL cases, as there are situations 
where polling does make sense - especially when you get beyond the 50-75 
user per sector mark.   I just haven't had any use for it because the 
extra costs of deployment did not justify the minimal benefits since 
nearly all of my APs are below the 50-75 users per sector range.  

I am familiar with the testing that you did with the 802.11 gear, but 
something just doesn't add up in your results, because my results are 
way different.   Not knowing details, I'm going to make the assumption 
that you were using symmetrical bandwidth profiles (1meg up/1meg down), 
full speed with no bursting, and that your bandwidth control was being 
done at some point behind the access point.  To get a higher number of 
users on an 802.11 AP, the upload rates need to be limited.  The key is 
picking the tradeoff that works best.   With symmetrical speeds and 
multimegabit packages, 20-30 users per AP is probably all you are going 
to get.   With asymmetrical bandwidth packages, the available duty 
cycles for delivering data to customers are maximized and the latency 
issues you mentioned are mimimized.  Bursting is another key feature to 
have available on 802.11 networks, since it gets the short data requests 
delivered faster.   Bursting enabled us to double the number of users on 
an AP without issues.   Having the bandwidth control on the AP, and not 
a device somewhere behind it - also seems to help considerably, and 
minimizes the chances of issues coming up between the wireless link and 
the bandwidth controller.   In my tests, I can start simultaneous 
uploads or downloads on multiple CPE units on a loaded AP and still 
maintain decent latency (jumps from 2ms to 20-25ms) with no packet 
loss.  YMMV, but that is what I see on my system, deployed in this manner.

I'm glad that Canopy works for you and the others that use it.  I have 
no use for it whatsoever because the 802.11 gear does what it needs to 
do when deployed in this fashion.   When I have customers that need to 
make the move beyond what our system is capable of, I'm going to spend 
the money on 3.65 WiMax gear.

Even without a promo, I could put up 24 sectors of StarOS for less than 
$300 each.   Or I could deploy 12 sectors and 12 backhauls.   Or I could 
deploy 12 sectors, 12 backhauls and 3 full duplex links.   And that 
includes real, external antennas and not the little crappy patch 
antennas inside of the Canopy case.   And I have open source tools to 
manage it, not this BAM or PRIZM or whatever crazy stuff that Canopy 
requires.

Your turn.  :^)

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Travis Johnson wrote:
> Matt,
>
> This was Animal Farm... they had a 300Mbps link off their fiber 
> backbone into this facility. Why would you cap people at 1Mbps? The 
> issue is without polling, there is no way to control usage in a fair, 
> equal manner.
>
> Let me explain what I have found in the last year. We did all kinds of 
> testing with Mikrotik, Nanostations, OSBridge, StarOS, etc. We decided 
> to deploy Mikrotik and use their Nstreme protocol to provide a 
> consistant, polling based solution using off-the-shelf components. We 
> have about 60 AP's deployed. We have found that even with polling and 
> QoS on every single user, the system starts to have issues above 50 
> users. So we figured no problem, just put up more AP's on the same 
> towers. Even while using only 10mhz channel sizes, you have to have at 
> least 20mhz between AP's or they cause interference. So, we now have 
> some towers with 6 Mikrotik AP's, but instead of using 60mhz of 
> spectrum, we are using more like 180mhz of spectrum.
>
> Only having been in the Canopy game for less than a month, I can tell 
> you so far having GPS sync and timing is pretty cool. I can put as 
> many AP's as I want on a tower, and all over everywhere, and I don't 
> have to worry about stepping on myself. So each AP uses 25mhz, but I 
> can get 200+ subs on each AP, and I can deliver 7-10ms latency all the 
> time, to eve

[WISPA] Tower Climbing Safety Classes

[Israel Lopez - Lists]

Hello There,

I'm looking for some basic tower climbing safety courses.  I found one 
online, directed by ComTrain.  
http://comtrainusa.com/courses-available/certification-courses/basic-2-days-mainmenu-27
  
But I would like to see what else is out there.

Anyone know of similar companies/courses available?  Preferably in 
California.

Thank you kindly.

-Israel



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Re: [WISPA] Mapping Effort. If you can't donate $$, donate time

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hello Brian,

Thank you for your efforts to help us with the mapping and taking the 
time to make sure that all of the WISPs in Michigan have their coverage 
areas listed on the WirelessMapping map.  I would encourage you (if you 
have another couple of hours to spend) to send me the list of zip codes 
serviced by each of the other operators so that I can get the zip code 
information into the WISP Directory database.   I am a little concerned 
that the data on Brian Webster's map and the WISP Directory database is 
starting to diverge, so I would encourage anyone who is contributing 
coverage map information for Brian's map to also include the zip code 
information.   We really need to have that zip code information to back 
up the data.

Brian, in return for your help, I have set you up with "Featured" status 
so now Reliable Internet comes up first in any search for Michigan WISP 
providers.   I have done this for Doug Clark in Utah in exchange for his 
help mapping Utah operators and Rick Harnish in Indiana for his help 
with the mapping.   I will extend that offer to anyone else who wants to 
earn "Featured" status for their listing in the directory.   Help us 
fill in the zip codes for your state and I'll set you up with a featured 
listing.

Thanks again for your help!

Matt Larsen
mlar...@inventivemedia.net

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> I just spent three hrs mapping all of Michigan. 
> I went to wispdirectory.com and visited the website of all 37 Michigan 
> wisps.   At each website I looked for a list of cities covered or a 
> coverage map.  I then put that info in google earth.  If they had a 
> coverage map with blobs, I would use lakes, rivers, and roads to draw 
> the blob in google earth the best I could.  If they had cities, I typed 
> the city in google earth, and it flies to it.  After it is done flying, 
> I clicked the push pin button and then "ok".  It's quick and easy.  I 
> sent the earth file to Brian and he ran it through his process which 
> draws the circle around every city.
>
> The info I just submitted accounted for 29,859 square miles.
>
> I urge others to step up and take a couple hrs to map their state.  I 
> plan on knocking off a few more when I can.  Please post if you have 
> done or are going to do one.
>
>
> Brian Rohrbacher
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Mapping Effort. If you can't donate $$, donate time

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Quick Note:

To submit the zip codes, use the contact us form at the WISP Directory 
site and put the name of the provider in the subject line and the zip 
codes (separated by spaces, no commas) in the Message field.   Or you 
can send the information directly to my email address below.

Thanks!

Matt Larsen
mlar...@inventivemedia.net

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
> Hello Brian,
>
> Thank you for your efforts to help us with the mapping and taking the 
> time to make sure that all of the WISPs in Michigan have their coverage 
> areas listed on the WirelessMapping map.  I would encourage you (if you 
> have another couple of hours to spend) to send me the list of zip codes 
> serviced by each of the other operators so that I can get the zip code 
> information into the WISP Directory database.   I am a little concerned 
> that the data on Brian Webster's map and the WISP Directory database is 
> starting to diverge, so I would encourage anyone who is contributing 
> coverage map information for Brian's map to also include the zip code 
> information.   We really need to have that zip code information to back 
> up the data.
>
> Brian, in return for your help, I have set you up with "Featured" status 
> so now Reliable Internet comes up first in any search for Michigan WISP 
> providers.   I have done this for Doug Clark in Utah in exchange for his 
> help mapping Utah operators and Rick Harnish in Indiana for his help 
> with the mapping.   I will extend that offer to anyone else who wants to 
> earn "Featured" status for their listing in the directory.   Help us 
> fill in the zip codes for your state and I'll set you up with a featured 
> listing.
>
> Thanks again for your help!
>
> Matt Larsen
> mlar...@inventivemedia.net
>
> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>   
>> I just spent three hrs mapping all of Michigan. 
>> I went to wispdirectory.com and visited the website of all 37 Michigan 
>> wisps.   At each website I looked for a list of cities covered or a 
>> coverage map.  I then put that info in google earth.  If they had a 
>> coverage map with blobs, I would use lakes, rivers, and roads to draw 
>> the blob in google earth the best I could.  If they had cities, I typed 
>> the city in google earth, and it flies to it.  After it is done flying, 
>> I clicked the push pin button and then "ok".  It's quick and easy.  I 
>> sent the earth file to Brian and he ran it through his process which 
>> draws the circle around every city.
>>
>> The info I just submitted accounted for 29,859 square miles.
>>
>> I urge others to step up and take a couple hrs to map their state.  I 
>> plan on knocking off a few more when I can.  Please post if you have 
>> done or are going to do one.
>>
>>
>> Brian Rohrbacher
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
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>>
>>   
>> 
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] StarOS/Valemount

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

 From a vendor perspective, Eje is right.   StarOS has gone through a 
lot of weird stages that lead to alienation of their vendors, and ended 
up settling on a situation where it has a limited number of vendors.  

 From an operators perspective, the software is fantastic.   The 
wireless drivers are rock solid, it has a few unique features that give 
it substantial advantages over the other platforms in specific 
situations and it uses a lot of linux-standard code.   This last element 
is a big advantage in my book, because all of the good documentation and 
deployment methods already in place for Linux systems applies to 
StarOS.   That negates a lot of the need for StarOS specific 
documentation.   I think that it is the best platform for a standards 
based wireless deployment, although a lot of people prefer Mikrotik.   I 
have tried Mikrotik on some fairly large deployments and ended up 
switching back simply because we were getting better results with StarOS.  

As far as support - the forum is your best bet for support.   However, 
there are occasional training sessions, including one this month on the 
24-25th in Las Vegas.   Disclaimer:  I will be one of the trainers.  

Matt Larsen
inventivemedia.net

e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> Uhm. Is Cisco not a real manufacturer? Don't you have to pay for design work 
> and training classes and that with them or pay for advanced support there?  
> If you want free support then you could look at things like Dlink or Linksys. 
> You have free support there directly from the manufacturer. 
> Last I heard from StarOS they where a 2 people team doing sales and software 
> development and selling OEM hardware. Some people love their software but 
> some dislike them much. They changed code base three times.  Most support you 
> will get you will find in their forums or on mailing list such as this one. 
> If they have hired on some more and actually trying to get out of the 
> "garage" then we might consider them as a real alternative but when they 
> started selling hardware and become direct competitor and basically gave away 
> their software with hardware sales we stopped support them and sell their 
> products. Never good when a "manufacturer" start directly compete with 
> resellers and distributors. 
>
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
>
> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:51:20 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] StarOS/Valemount
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] StarOS/Valemount

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Winbox is okay, but it doesn't do much that the StarOS ssh interface 
doesn't do, and that includes the Torch functionality.   The StarOS 
"Beacon" functionality has the ability to track all TCP connections, 
simliar to Torch, so that functionality is there as well.   I would 
probably lean toward the "Association List" or what I fondly refer to 
the "F1 key" functionality as the best feature of StarOS - much better 
than the Winbox or commandline equivalent on Mikrotik.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Travis Johnson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Mikrotik has this same ability, but using their Winbox GUI. I can 
> right-click on any connected Mikrotik device in the list and connect 
> directly (even if it doesn't have an IP address on it at all). And 
> let's not forget the all powerful Torch utility that is built in to 
> every Mikrotik device. If you have never seen or used it, it is 
> probably the single most important "feature" available on Mikrotik.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> Mark Nash wrote:
>> I agree... Just put one up and try it.  Don't be afraid of the learning 
>> curve.  The performance and flexibility is outstanding.
>>
>> Also, there's alot to be said about NOT having a web interface.  I can't 
>> tell you how many times I've done this:
>>
>> 1.  Realized I screwed up the gateway address or IP address on the CPE.
>> 2.  ssh into the AP, put and IP address on the wireless interface that 
>> client is associated with, ssh TO the client FROM the AP (not from my 
>> workstation).
>> 3.  Been on my merry way and not have had a truck roll.
>>
>> We use methods like these to prevent truck rolls over & over again.
>>
>> I wish that the other, mainstream product manufacturers would get a clue 
>> about this ability.  You can essentially move about your network using ssh, 
>> hopping from one device to another until you can reach the device you want. 
>> You can ssh from your computer or PDA to your border router, then ssh from 
>> there to wherever on your network you want to go.
>>
>> Also with this method, it is possible to take a brand new AP to a tower 
>> site, set to defaults (with default IP address) and have the guys back at 
>> the office reach it and configure it.  VERY POWERFUL!!
>>
>> I say let go of the web interface.  I did and I'm glad I did.  My name is 
>> Mark and I'm an ssh junkie... ;)
>>
>> Mark Nash
>> UnwiredWest
>> 78 Centennial Loop
>> Suite E
>> Eugene, OR 97401
>> 541-998-
>> 541-998-5599 fax
>> http://www.unwiredwest.com
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "CHUCK PROFITO"  
>> 
>> To: "'WISPA General List'"  
>> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] StarOS/Valemount
>>
>>
>> 




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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give 
some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry 
standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000 
platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).  

I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better 
performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I design 
and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it 
uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq, 
iptables) that are well documented.

Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people 
trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't hear 
about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik 
and I'm very happy with it.

Matt Larsen
mlar...@inventivemedia.net


os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!
>
> I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on  
> an old PC first.
>
> Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the  
> something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!
>
> Greg
>
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>   
>> The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.   
>> If
>> you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
>> see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,  
>> maybe.  lol.
>>
>> There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
>> can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is  
>> not
>> the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
>> that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
>> implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens.
>>
>> As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
>> agree there?
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> 
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> 
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Mr. Burgess,
>>>
>>> What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making  
>>> too
>>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
>>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>>
>>> Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
>>> bad?
>>>
>>> Greg
>>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done  
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 rece

[WISPA] WISPA Newspaper Article

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Its only the Scottsbluff StarHerald, but this was a nice write-up anyway

http://www.starherald.com/articles/2009/02/22/news/local_news/doc49a0d84daaead679125026.txt

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] WISPA Newspaper Article

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hi John,

We have laid a foundation with the press here by sending out occasional 
press releases about new tower locations and some of our "green" 
alternative energy powered sites.   I did not send a press release out 
about this issue, the reporter was interviewing me for a community pride 
issue coming up, and our conversation turned to the stimulus.   I would 
encourage WISPs to send out press releases focusing on their ability to 
provide service to unserved/underserved areas and how we are an 
excellent investment for the stimulus programs.   Voters and legislators 
watch the newspapers carefully.  I'm curious to see if this article 
generates any interest in our state.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

John Scrivner wrote:
> Matt,
> Excellent article. Did you get the ball rolling with the press there
> through a press release? What led to the reason for the article?
> Knowing this could help others to gain access to this positive press.
> Congrats,
> Scriv
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists
>  wrote:
>   
>> Its only the Scottsbluff StarHerald, but this was a nice write-up anyway
>>
>> http://www.starherald.com/articles/2009/02/22/news/local_news/doc49a0d84daaead679125026.txt
>>
>> Matt Larsen
>> vistabeam.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Knowing when to stop doing installs yourself, they are for the young

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

One of my phone techs thought that he could go out and do local service 
calls when the phones weren't busy.  This guy is pretty big - probably 
about 350 or so at the time and not the most nimble person in the world.  

He stopped by the customer's house and went to look at his router, which 
was up in the attic above the guys garage.   Apparently, he lost his 
balance on the ladder and went through the drywall ceiling next to the 
attic access and dropped about 15 feet to the concrete floor.   He was 
alright (miraculously) and the homeowner was actually pretty 
understanding about the situation.

I asked the tech how it went down, and he said that when he started 
falling off the ladder, he just did a "tuck and roll".   Which made me 
feel a little better, because the image of him leaving a giant-sized 
human outline with arms and legs flailing as he went through the drywall 
was stuck in my head and causing me to tear up from laughing so hard.   
I thought it was probably like a combination of the Kool-Aid man and 
Sesame Street muppets going through walls.

He doesn't do service calls any more.  :^)

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com



Joe Miller wrote:
> This should make for a good read, or a good laugh.
>
> This week, my installer has been out of town. However, business still goes 
> on. I decided to do some of the installs while he is away. Nothing was 
> different about these installs from the hundreds of installs that I've done 
> in the past. 
>
> The first install that I did on Tuesday of this week resulted in drilling a 
> small hole in my right hand. I was trying to drill a hole into a blank wall 
> plate. All of the sudden, it shattered into about 10 pieces. What the hell 
> was I thinking. I've never tried to do that in the past. I've always used a 
> 2x4 or something like that to back it up to keep that from happening. It was 
> getting late and I took a short cut. My right hand is still paying the price 
> for that one.
>
> The second install resulted in putting my foot through the ceiling due to not 
> have full use of my right hand from the install the day before. Walking 
> around in ceilings requires the use of both hands. Well, my right hand, still 
> in pain from the install the day before, was having issues with it being 
> used. Anyway, while moving around in the attic area for the third time to 
> fish up my cat5 cable and to remove the tools that I put up there, I slipped 
> on one of the ceiling joists and put my foot through the sheetrock. I though 
> the homeowner was going to come unglued, but he was pretty cool about it. He 
> was more concerned about me than his ceiling. In order to save face, I gave 
> him the $249.00 install for free, gave him the new router and USB wireless 
> adapter (cost of $100.00) for free as well. Along with a free months service 
> of $49.95. This was to help cover the cost of the repair of the sheetrock. 
> The hole in the ceiling was the size of my size 13 shoe.
>  And of course I'm really sore this morning writing this.
>
> Anyway, the whole point of writing this is that there is a time in everyone's 
> life when you have to leave the installs to the younger ones. I'm not saying 
> I'm too old to do this, but after running cable in houses for over 20 years, 
> it is time to let others take care of it. Even if it means putting off 
> installs for new customers. As the VP of Operations for my company, I've 
> always had the "just get it done" attitude. There is nothing that my company 
> does that I cannot do, and I have. It doesn't mean that "I" have to do them. 
> When that time comes, you just have to learn how to delegate those jobs out.
>
> Now that everyone has had a laugh at my expense, (it's ok). Maybe someone 
> here can learn from what I did this week and not make the same mistakes. The 
> main thing is that we do our jobs well. And above all...we do them safely.
>
> Joe Miller
> DSLbyAir, LLC
> 228-238-2563
> www.dslbyair.com
>
>
>   
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
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>
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>   





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Re: [WISPA] OFFLIST Re: radio mobile

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Wasn't "Blett Grass" involved in this thread somehow?  

(trying to bypass the universal mailling list spam filter with my 
misspelling :^)

Larsen

Bob Moldashel wrote:
> Too many witnesses
>
> I wonder what ever happened to Mr. Farber..
>
> -B-
>
>
> Rick Harnish wrote:
>   
>> I remember that too!  I'll keep my eye out for Uncle Guido Moldashel waiting
>> out back of the office.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:15 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OFFLIST Re: radio mobile
>>
>> I "F-bombed" a guy once on "isp-wireless" and thought it was offlist.  
>> Fortunately those people have moved on and there are no more witnesses 
>> except for maybe Shriv or Marlon or Larsen
>>
>> So I know the feeling "REAL WELL". I was surprised at the amount of 
>> offlist messages I got after that saying things like "too funny" and 
>> "way to go".
>>
>> 
>>
>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> At least I didn't say anything dumb.  I'd hate to be a vendor.  I'd 
>>> probably end up sending an "offlist" message bashing another vendor or 
>>> something..
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> Bob Moldashel wrote:
>>> 
>>>   
 Nothing worse than an offlist message that is not offlist.  I hate when 
 that happens

 :-)

 -B-


 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
   
   
 
> Hey, you up for training another guy on radio mobile?  I need a little 
> help.  I have spent a few days wandering around in the program, so I 
> feel a little better with it, at least good enough to take in some 
> info if you could show me.
>
> Brian
>
> Jerry Richardson wrote:
> 
> 
>   
>> I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour.
>>
>> You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to do
>> that?
>>
>> We can use ZOHO Web Meeting.
>>
>> Price 100.00 paid via PayPal
>>  
>> __ 
>>
>> airCloud Communications
>> Broadband for Business
>> Public and Private WiFi
>>  
>> Jerry Richardson
>> VP Operations
>> 925-260-4119
>> _
>>  
>> ConsuWISP
>> RF Topographical Coverage Maps
>> Network Optimization and Planning
>> Network Design and Troubleshooting
>> Installer and Technician Training
>>  
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
>>
>> I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of
>> documentation.
>>
>> I'll pay someone for their time.
>>
>> thanks,
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
>>
>>
>>   
>>   
>>   
>> 
>>> Uhm...ya...
>>>
>>> Try this...
>>>
>>> http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>>> --- Henry Spencer
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
 Hi All,

 I need to learn how to use this program.  I can't even figure out how
   
   
   
 
>> to
>>   
>>   
>>   
>> 
 get
 started with it (less than user friendly isn't it!) though.  Anyone 
 willing
 to spend some time on the phone and help me figure out the basics?

 Shoot me your number and a good time to call.

 thanks,
 marlon





   
   
   
 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>>   
>>   
>>   
>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


   
   
   
 
>> 

Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I have decided that the FCC will get my Form 477 when I get around to 
it.   I'm not dropping everything in a mad scramble to fill out the 
information.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Dylan Bouterse wrote:
> I had the same problem! How can they have some of the error checking
> they have, and not accept 0s in fields??? I'm sorry for not mentioning
> that when I wrote my email. I was still kind of hot from figuring that
> out when I wrote it too.
>  
> Which prison did you say?  ;)
>  
> Dylan
>  
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:14 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN (form 477 comments)
>  
> ARGH!
>
> I was late (even by pacific time, I wonder if they wait until Hawaii
> time before they make the cutoff?)
>
> I spent nearly two hours trying to figure out vague errors I was getting
> on the final submission.
> This Submission could not be accepted. Some of the totals computed from
> the detail data do not match reported state totals. For your
> convenience, the non-matching cells are detailed below. Please correct
> the data and resubmit.
>
> Terrestrial Fixed Wireless
>
>   Download Information Transfer Rate
> Upload Information transfer rate from the end user
> 200 - 767.9 kbps
> 768 kbps - 1.49 mbps
> 1.5 - 2.9 mbps
> 3 - 5.9 mbps
> 6 - 9.9 mbps
> 10 - 24.9 mbps
> 25 - 99.9 mbps
>   
>> 100 mbps
>> 
>
>
> Turns out they don't like ZEROS in any of the fields on the summary
> page.  Why don't they just SAY that!
>
> Off to bed.  If they throw me in prison for being late, please write
> once in a while.
>
> Randy
>
>
> Dylan Bouterse wrote: 
> If you're asking about form 477 the due date is in 22 minutes.
> http://www.fcc.gov/form477/
>  
> JUST got ours in 20 min ago. Shew!!! Only took 2 guys 7 hours straight
> to churn the data into FCC acceptabledata. I'll keep my comments to
> myself on this.
>  
> Dylan
>  
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:42 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
>  
> What is the due date for that form?
>  
> Cliff Olle wrote: 
> With the information that Brian Webster generated for us, we did the
> filing
> in 5 minutes.  I highly recommend if you are getting close to crunch
> time
> and are looking up tract data to give him a shot on this.  Best $100 I
> ever
> spent.
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:56 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
>  
> oh man, we're STILL working on the 477.  Isn't that an absolute
> disaster?
>  
> We don't ever TRACK most of what they want.
>  
> sigh
>  
> I'm going to have to figure out how to build a query in our access files
>  
> that will export the data in a file for the fcc.  Let them sort all of
> the 
> crap out.
>  
> My poor office manager is about ready to quit over this!
>  
> g
> marlon
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Scott Piehn"  
>    
> To:  
>    ;
> "WISPA General List"  
>    
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
>  
>  
>   
> agreed
>  
> When we had specific questions, we called ARIN.  Got someone
> right away 
> that
> new what they were talking about
>  
> Easier than Form 477 for us
>  
> Scott
>  
>  
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Scott Carullo" 
>  
>    
> To: "WISPA General List" 
>  
>    
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] speaking of ARIN
>  
>  
> 
>You dont need that - just go to their website and you
> can call too - its
>easy.
> 
>Scott Carullo
>Brevard Wireless
>321-205-1100 x102
> 
> Original Message 
>  
>From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>  
>    
>Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:37 PM
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>  
>  

Re: [WISPA] OT: Hot Spot boxes

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Mark Nash wrote:
> Has anyone used the hotspot features in StarOS?
>
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Scott Carullo" 
> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Hot Spot boxes
>
>
>   
>> Should have given you more info sorry - RB493AH with case and power
>> 
> supply.
>   
>>  Should do whatever you need with ease.
>>
>> If you need radius for authentication etc you have to have a radius server
>> and you can make website for taking payment etc...  Also need merchant
>> account to handle money.
>>
>> There are some products that eliminate this legwork for you it just
>> 
> depends
>   
>> on if you want to pay for their boxes and services.
>>
>> Also, I guess if anyone wanted to have someone like us handle it for you
>> 
> we
>   
>> would be happy to.  Then you just plop a box in and it works - all of it.
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> 
>>> From: "Rick Kunze" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:57 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: [WISPA] OT: Hot Spot boxes
>>>
>>> Anyone have any recommendations as far as a hot spot controller?  I need
>>>   
>>> a box that will handle a hot spot scenario but that sits on my ISP
>>> network such that there can be both pass-through customers (static IP
>>> etc) as well as DHCP clients that get the walled garden CC purchase web
>>> site where they can purchase services.
>>>
>>> Who's using what?
>>>
>>> Rk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> --
>> 
> --
>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> --
>> 
> --
>   
>> 
>> 
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>   
>>
>>
>> --
>> 
> --
>   
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
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>
>
>
> 
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>   
Yes, they work fine.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

StarOS will do 4.9ghz FD no problem.

The X4000 and X2000 units can both do this.  They are FCC approved, 
although someone would probably argue that they may not be approved with 
all of the 4.9ghz antennas.   I know it works, and we use it combined 
with Tranzeo 4.9 CPE radios for our local city government and county 
government.   I also know that StarOS is being used all around Boston to 
deliver highway cameras and security cameras back to monitoring 
locations for government entities, so it is out there in use by many 
parties and is not a "homebrew" solution as some here will suggest.

If you have to get FDD in 4.9ghz, this will do it.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Matt Jenkins wrote:
> I would like to see some test cases with real world stats on these. If 
> they do what they claim it would make them a very appealing choice.
>
> 3-dB Networks wrote:
>   
>> Yes it is MIMO.  It operates in the same channel in Horizontal and
>> Vertical... much like Orthogon et. al.
>>
>> Your right though... its sales fluff (which in this case though could be
>> helpful sales fluff).  Guess I got caught up in it without really thinking
>> about that :-)
>>
>> Daniel White
>> 3-dB Networks
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>> 




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Re: [WISPA] Using Tranzeo as CPE for rural community

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

A few responses here:

1)  You don't have to use Tranzeo APs with Tranzeo CPEs.The new 
Tranzeo APs (EN-500 series) does have a lot more management features 
than the older Tranzeo units (TR-6000, TR-5a).   You can also use StarOS 
or Mikrotik APs and have all the centralized management and advanced 
features that you could possibly want for an 802.11 network.
2)  The older CPEs do need to be rebooted occasionally.   The newer 
units do not seem to have this same problem.
3)  I tend to disagree with comments that the cases are poorly 
designed.   The Tranzeo radios have substantial internal grounding and 
have a very high degree of tolerance for environmental extremes, both 
hot and cold.   They are built like tanks compared to the PCB in a 
plastic case design of the Ubiquiti and Motorola Canopy radios.   The 
cable boot is not that bad to work with, but they could be improved.  
4)  Tranzeo is RUS approved.   I would have to dig up the link, but I 
did determine that they will qualify for RUS or stimulus financing.
5)  They work great for PTMP, and there are hundreds of thousands of 
Tranzeos out in the field providing PTMP service to WISP customers.  The 
2.4ghz models have the same limitations of all 802.11b gear, but the 
802.11a based gear is especially capable and a great value.

Hope that helps.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com



3-dB Networks wrote:
> So are you looking to provide a muni Wi-Fi type setup?
>
> I have used and deployed a few hundred Tranzeo radios... they seem to play
> best with each other... there has been issues when mixing other clients with
> them.  
>
> There is not going to be a central management system for them... which could
> be very problematic
>
> I have seen many issues with the management locking up, with a reboot being
> the only way to bring it back.  Tranzeo may have worked past these issues by
> now.
>
> In my opinion their radio cases are poorly designed, but it helps make them
> cheap.  Of note the cable boot can be very difficult to work with.
>
> Overall though, I would deploy Tranzeo in the right situations.  I'm not
> sure you have one of them though.  I would lean towards Ubiquity since they
> are a cheaper price point and there are more choices for the firmware.  On
> the downside availability can be difficult.
>
> I'm also not sure if Tranzeo is RUS approved.  I would start from the RUS
> approved list and work from there... as it will make getting that stimulus
> money easier.
>
> Now if you're looking to do point to multi-point... it is a whole different
> conversation (and not generally in Tranzeo's favor).  
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>   
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Rogelio
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:34 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Using Tranzeo as CPE for rural community
>>
>> I'm looking into setting up wi-fi for rural county (using stimulus
>> dollars) and am now looking for CPE devices to put on each rooftop.
>>
>> A past coworker told me that he's heard good things about Tranzeo, and I
>> was wondering what others here on the list thought about them as a
>> vendor.
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
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>> 
>
>
>
> 
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>
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] Resurrect old Microwave paths back to cheaper bandwidth?

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I've got gear on several of these towers in my area.Most are built 
like a brick sh**house.   American Tower wanted to do an engineering 
study before they would let us put equipment on one of these, and I just 
laughed.   You could drive a pickup up the side of the tower - I'm 
pretty sure that if the earth blows up, that tower will still be 
standing on the surface of the asteroid.

Unfortunately, ownership is spread out between a lot of parties.   
American Tower has a few, some radio stations have bought others and 
there are a few that are semi-abandoned.   Even so, the existence of the 
microwave links between towers is a good indicator of what the 
possibilities are.   I have a 65 mile shot running from one of the old 
AT&T Long Lines towers to one of the old Western Union towers.   Come to 
think of it, I have links on five of them (all adjacent) so I have a 
partially reconstituted LongLines/WU segment with live traffic on it!
We have plans to be on three more this summer, so that will make 8.  

I have also found quite a few abandoned Air Force towers in our area (we 
are on three).   They are a little weird - no ownership records at the 
county seats, and they were basically given to the landowners.   I've 
managed to pick up a few towers cheap that were basically abandoned, but 
had useful LOS to other locations.   One had to be lighted, but other 
than that they have all been in fairly good shape.   There are a lot of 
towers out there, so doing long backhaul links between them is quite 
feasible, and with the cost of licensed backhauls coming down, it is 
certainly possible to bypass the telcos completely.   I'm sitting at 
about 1300 miles of wireless backbone links right now, all coming back 
to two backbone locations on fiber.  Who needs the telephone company?

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Brian Webster wrote:
> I've been working on a consolidated map of the fiber available around
> the country and was thinking about who would have infrastructure that would
> be worth showing. As I was thinking it occurred to me that back in the day
> fiber did not exist, Ma Bell did everything on microwave. So I dug around
> the internet and found some interesting old maps. One is the old AT&T long
> lines microwave network and the other is the old Western Union network.
> If a few WISP's wanted to get together and start rebuilding these paths
> from their areas back to a big city, the towers are mostly still in place
> and some of them still have the dishes. We know the paths exist (many of
> them were 6 GHz) and they are well documented for the original designs on
> the net. American Tower owns many of the olds sites now so it should be easy
> to lease the space. The paths all terminate in major telecom hubs so it
> should be easy to get bandwidth.
> Just thought I would put these out there as food for thought for the
> WISP's who are trying to get a lot of bandwidth cheap in rural markets.
> Maybe these old networks pass through your area.. Have fun!
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>   
> 
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Bad Geocoding Data

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

This article in the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-geocoding-errors5-2009apr05,0,5966285.story

This documents the reasoning for why I have not completed my Form 477 
data yet.   Nearly 40% of my customer base will have to be re-coded for 
the Form 47 because the geocoding databases are incorrect.   My lead 
tech has exported the geocode data out of Freeside and into Google 
Earth, sorted by AP.   When we look at the data, a very high percentage 
of our customers have GPS coordinates of Post Office of their 
town/village.   We still have a lot of county road and rural route 
addresses in this area, and they don't geocode correctly.   

Data with 40% noise borders on useless.   I applaud the spirit behind 
the 477, but asking us to provide this granular data without the right 
tools to assemble the data and verify it makes it a nearly unanswerable 
proposition.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Jeff, I think you have made a fine point.   I realized about a year ago 
that with the cost of licensed links coming down, there wasn't a lot of 
reason to look at the high-end UL radios anymore.When a StarOS or MT 
setup will deliver 30-50meg of FD throughput at a very low cost, the 
next logical step is to go with a 100MB licensed link.I have a 
couple of my consulting clients that have been dumping their Moto BH 
links in favor of StarOS because it is cheaper and quite a bit faster, 
but  we have also found a few situations where we need more speed, and 
going licensed just makes way more sense than spending that much money 
on a UL link.

I do see Travis's point about the longer range shots, however.   I've 
got a 35, 45 and 65 mile shots with StarOS and they work just fine but 
only put out about 18-25meg at those distances.   That's enough for me, 
but I can see where you would want more capacity and I suppose that 
within that narrow definition, a PTP600 would be better than a licensed 
link.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Travis Johnson wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> First let me say we LOVE our Trango licensed links. However, the one 
> issue you are not taking into account is distance. I just did a path 
> calc on a 73 mile 5ghz link we have now using a PTP600 and it looks 
> really good there is no way to do that shot with 11ghz (believe 
> me, if I could I would).
>
> So, distance may be a limiting factor when considering licensed vs. 
> unlicensed. We won't talk about my 32 mile, 18ghz licensed link (using 
> 2ft dishes) with 99.99% reliability. ;)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Jeff Ehman wrote:
>> Since it is Friday and I am bored
>>
>> Here's some interesting points
>>
>> 11 GHz Licensed Radio
>> -220 Mb (110 FD): -76 dBm
>>
>> PTP600
>> -300 Mb (150 FD): -59.1 dBm
>> -200 Mb (100 FD): -68.1 dBm
>>
>> 12 Mile Shot - Availability for both systems using 2' dishes is 99.999% -- 
>> but we may need larger dishes for 5 GHz to account for interference and 
>> noise (while in the licensed band, interference and noise doesn't exist)
>>
>> Assuming no noise for PTP600
>> -2' (28 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 200.68 Mb 
>> (~100 Mb Full Duplex)
>> -4' (34 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 287.69 Mb 
>> (~140 Mb Full Duplex)
>>
>> Now, since the PTP600 requires 30 MHz of spectrum and BOTH polarities, it's 
>> safe to assume that generally speaking, we should plan for a minimum thermal 
>> noise floor of -80 dBm - adding that into the equation, our calculation now 
>> shows the following
>> -2' (28 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 109.03 Mb 
>> (~50 Mb Full Duplex)
>> -4' (34 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 197.61 Mb 
>> (~100 Mb Full Duplex)
>>
>> 11 GHz Licensed Radio (no noise to worry about)
>> -2' (34.3 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 220 Mb (110 
>> Mb  Full Duplex)
>>
>> *NOTE: Licensed radios transmit and receive on SEPARATE frequencies...so 
>> round trip latency is ~0.4 milliseconds (~400 microseconds) per hop
>>
>>
>> Now, let's look at cost
>> PTP600 with 2' Dual Pol antennas and misc stuff: $14k
>> PTP600 with 4' Dual Pol antennas and misc stuff: $16k
>> Licensed Radio with 2' Dishes (Software Upgradable to 300 Mb Full Duplex) 
>> and FCC License: $12k
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jeff
>> CTI
>> "There is a Difference"
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org  
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:20 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed
>>
>>
>> IMHO the PTP600 is the best UL radio in the market... 
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com 
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org  
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:08 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed
>>
>> >From what I understand the PTP600 is an OFDM "best effort" radio.  If 
>>   
>>> the RF
>>> 
>> environment is favorable then it will pass data.  If not then it slows
>> down and/or starts dropping packets.
>>
>> I believe the PTP600 is also a HDX radio, is it not?  Not trying to be
>> adversarial...just interested in learning more about any UL radio that
>> can produce 150Mbpd FDX as reliable as a licensed radio set.
>>
>> Anyone have a PTP600 manual they can send me?
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org  
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Gino Villarini
>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:59 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 

Re: [WISPA] tranzeo 900mhz ?

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Unfortunately, that will not work.   I have been trying to get Tranzeos 
to work with StarOS (and Mikrotik) for a while and have not been able to 
make it happen.   I have even taken the Tranzeos apart and put the cards 
into the other radios and did not get it to work.

I did take the cards out of a couple of dead Tranzeo 900 radios (blown 
ethernet port), put one in a StarOS AP, and the second into a WAR1 and 
put it back in the Tranzeo case and that worked out pretty well.If 
either StarOS or Mikrotik would come up with a way to tune into the 
correct center frequency, I think you could get them to work, but I have 
not had any luck so far. 

Next step is I'm trying out one of the new EL900 APs from Tranzeo to see 
if it will do what I want to do.   If I could just get them to do radius 
authentication, I would be happy.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> They use different center frequencies so no, they do not interoperate. 
> However, I believe you can rip a card (and its amp/converter? Out of a 
> Tranzeo and put it into 'tik.
>
> ryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Fankhauser 
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:03 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List' 
> Subject: [WISPA] tranzeo 900mhz ?
>
> Does the Tranzeo Slim-line 900mhz series only work with a Tranzeo AP? Or can
> I use a XR9 in Mikrotik?
>
>  
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] After hour call handling?

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

These guys have been outstanding for us:

http://kitsupport.com/

We forward our tech support calls to them between 5pm-8am and they have 
done a great job.   All calls that they receive come back into our 
Freeside system as a work ticket with all the details on the calls they 
have taken and our techs jump on the ones that KIT can't resolve over 
the phone right away in the morning.   They will also call us if they 
get a bunch of calls from the same place with outage issues.

I believe the minimum monthly charge is $350/month, and that includes up 
to 70 support calls.   In a year, I don't think we've gone over that 
number of calls more than once or twice.   One of the best investments 
I've ever made.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> Good gear that's installed properly too. :)
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:52 PM
> To: aosg...@streamline-solutions.net; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] After hour call handling?
>
> My cell number is on every answering machine.  I tell people that if it's 
> urgent they can call.
>
> One of these days I'll have another tech and we'll take turns on "stand-by".
>
> The best solution I've found though?  GOOD gear!  It's amazing what happens 
> to the after hours call when you get top notch gear installed.
>
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Aaron D. Osgood" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:42 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] After hour call handling?
>
>
> How does everyone handle after hour calls for service? (Answering service? 
> Call forward to cell? Etc.)
> Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Rohrbacher 
>
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:31:25
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] How much to charge for a truck roll
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] tranzeo 900mhz ?

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I have verified that they do not.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> Has anyone verified if the Z-com 900mhz card works with the Tranzeo? 
> http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=11%2D401&eq=&Tp=
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>  
>  
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 10:35 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] tranzeo 900mhz ?
>
> Unfortunately, that will not work.   I have been trying to get Tranzeos 
> to work with StarOS (and Mikrotik) for a while and have not been able to 
> make it happen.   I have even taken the Tranzeos apart and put the cards 
> into the other radios and did not get it to work.
>
> I did take the cards out of a couple of dead Tranzeo 900 radios (blown 
> ethernet port), put one in a StarOS AP, and the second into a WAR1 and 
> put it back in the Tranzeo case and that worked out pretty well.If 
> either StarOS or Mikrotik would come up with a way to tune into the 
> correct center frequency, I think you could get them to work, but I have 
> not had any luck so far. 
>
> Next step is I'm trying out one of the new EL900 APs from Tranzeo to see 
> if it will do what I want to do.   If I could just get them to do radius 
> authentication, I would be happy.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
> D. Ryan Spott wrote:
>   
>> They use different center frequencies so no, they do not interoperate.
>> 
> However, I believe you can rip a card (and its amp/converter? Out of a
> Tranzeo and put it into 'tik.
>   
>> ryan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Kurt Fankhauser 
>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:03 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List' 
>> Subject: [WISPA] tranzeo 900mhz ?
>>
>> Does the Tranzeo Slim-line 900mhz series only work with a Tranzeo AP? Or
>> 
> can
>   
>> I use a XR9 in Mikrotik?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
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[WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hello,

I just got access to a few towers that had working 18ghz and 23ghz P-Com 
links on them at a point in the nearby past.   I have the dishes that 
were used for these links as well, but the Pcom radios were 4 and 8 T1 
models.  My understanding is that I can re-use the dishes with DS3 or 
OC3 Pcom radios. 

Does anyone know of a good source for those radios?   Please let me 
know.   Thanks!

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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[WISPA] Response to the FCC Regarding Form 477

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I thought I would share this email that I just sent to the FCC regarding 
the Form 477 report. I am late filing this report because we don't have 
accurate data and thought that my reasons why were worth sharing with my 
colleagues. I support what the FCC is trying to do with Form477, but was 
not able to in good conscience turn in our data by the report deadline.

I hope that this is valuable to some of you out there.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

---

Hi Suzanne,

I am not really in a position where I can give a projected date to have 
this information completed for you. However, I do feel it would be 
valuable to explain why and provide you and your management some more 
information as to why I am unable to give you a better date on when we 
intend to have it completed.

For background, Vistabeam (Inventive Wireless of Nebraska) is a wireless 
ISP that covers about 40,000 square miles in Nebraska and Wyoming. We 
have around 2000 customers spread out across this very thinly populated 
area. Even though we are quite small in customer number compared to 
other ISPs, we have a very good billing and provisioning system and 
quite a bit of detail on our customers. However, we did not have census 
tract information for our customers as there had never been a need for 
it until the latest Form477 notice came out earlier this year.

Once we received the Form477 notice, we made plans to modify our billing 
system to add the census tract information, which we were successful in 
doing. We also studied how to obtain geocoding information from multiple 
sources and how to integrate this into our database so that we could 
complete the report. Our initial integration seemed to be successful 
until we started to look at the geocoding data that we received and 
realized that over 50% of the census tract information was invalid.

After going through this data, we found that many of the addresses we 
have for customers are simply not being processed and located correctly. 
The majority of our customers are in rural areas with references to “CR” 
and “Road xxx” and other rural address forms that the geocoding engines 
simply cannot process. Many of these rural counties do not have GIS 
departments with the ability to provide the geocoding information for 
these addresses. In the event that the address doesn’t code, the 
geocoding engine returns the census tract information for the nearest 
Post Office, which is not in the correct census tract.

To get the correct information, we basically have two options.

Option #1 is to drive out to every customer with a GPS unit and record 
the information into our system. Since we have approximately 1100 
customers with inaccurate information, this is going to be a time 
consuming process and would cost us several thousand dollars to collect 
– not to mention the lost man hours.

Option #2 is to go through each customer record and use Google Earth and 
the driving directions to each customer location to determine the census 
tract. This takes about five minutes per customer record, so we are 
looking at about 92 man hours to get that data assembled and inserted 
into our customer database.

We have chosen to go with Option #2 to collect the invalid census tract 
data. However, I do not have the manpower to devote dedicated time to 
this data collection so we have distributed this project among several 
employees and are making as much progress as we can when our workflow 
allows for it. After a month, we are about 10% of the way through it. We 
are now entering our slower time of the year, so hopefully we will make 
a little bit better progress on it going forward, but I cannot make any 
guarantees on when we will get the data completed.

This leaves me with a quandary – I can either provide you with timely, 
but inaccurate information that is going to skew your data, or I can 
take the time to get the information right. Unfortunately, 99% of the 
completed Form477 reports that you have received probably have a 
substantial amount of inaccurate data in them.

II can send the inaccurate data that we have, and then you can check us 
off the list. That is probably what we will end up doing. In reality, we 
probably won’t have a truly accurate report until the next one is due.

I would be happy to provide a computer, Internet connection and a quiet 
room for an FCC intern if you would like to send someone out to 
participate in the data collection process. I realize that this is not a 
likely possibility, but I figured it doesn’t hurt to make the offer.

I really do appreciate the thought process behind collecting this 
information. I am one of the founding members and past president of 
WISPA, the Wireless ISP trade association, and we have actively 
encouraged our members to complete this report and comply with FCC 
regulations regarding our industry. I want to comply with the data 
reporting requirements of the Form477 report and will commit as much of 
my available resources as I can 

Re: [WISPA] Response to the FCC Regarding Form 477

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Unfortunately, this doesn't resolve anything for me.   NONE of the 
geocoding engines have the data for the customers that are not accurate 
in my system.   The hole in the process has to do with the county level 
information is not up to date or not provided to the geocoding 
service.   This is also a problem with doing local number portability, 
as we have found out on a couple of occasions.  

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Michael Baird wrote:
> For next time, check http://www.geocode.com/, it cost about $35 per 
> 1000, and does all that you need to do to submit the data.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> I know and feel your pain there. Luckily we do not have that many customers 
>> but 75% of our customer addresses does not geocode and we are doing 
>> something similar as your doing with #2 where the installers have to try to 
>> pin point the correct right location for the install. Pain is the installs 
>> done by installers that are no longer with us. 
>>
>> I think its a great idea what they are doing but lack of proper automated 
>> query systems and in accurate address databases that can not handle the 
>> addresses we feed makes the progress harder and slow. 
>>
>> /Eje
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Matt Larsen - Lists 
>>
>> Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:49:41 
>> To: WISPA General List; ; Motorola 
>> Canopy User Group
>> Subject: [WISPA] Response to the FCC Regarding Form 477
>>
>>
>> I thought I would share this email that I just sent to the FCC regarding 
>> the Form 477 report. I am late filing this report because we don't have 
>> accurate data and thought that my reasons why were worth sharing with my 
>> colleagues. I support what the FCC is trying to do with Form477, but was 
>> not able to in good conscience turn in our data by the report deadline.
>>
>> I hope that this is valuable to some of you out there.
>>
>> Matt Larsen
>> vistabeam.com
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Hi Suzanne,
>>
>> I am not really in a position where I can give a projected date to have 
>> this information completed for you. However, I do feel it would be 
>> valuable to explain why and provide you and your management some more 
>> information as to why I am unable to give you a better date on when we 
>> intend to have it completed.
>>
>> For background, Vistabeam (Inventive Wireless of Nebraska) is a wireless 
>> ISP that covers about 40,000 square miles in Nebraska and Wyoming. We 
>> have around 2000 customers spread out across this very thinly populated 
>> area. Even though we are quite small in customer number compared to 
>> other ISPs, we have a very good billing and provisioning system and 
>> quite a bit of detail on our customers. However, we did not have census 
>> tract information for our customers as there had never been a need for 
>> it until the latest Form477 notice came out earlier this year.
>>
>> Once we received the Form477 notice, we made plans to modify our billing 
>> system to add the census tract information, which we were successful in 
>> doing. We also studied how to obtain geocoding information from multiple 
>> sources and how to integrate this into our database so that we could 
>> complete the report. Our initial integration seemed to be successful 
>> until we started to look at the geocoding data that we received and 
>> realized that over 50% of the census tract information was invalid.
>>
>> After going through this data, we found that many of the addresses we 
>> have for customers are simply not being processed and located correctly. 
>> The majority of our customers are in rural areas with references to “CR” 
>> and “Road xxx” and other rural address forms that the geocoding engines 
>> simply cannot process. Many of these rural counties do not have GIS 
>> departments with the ability to provide the geocoding information for 
>> these addresses. In the event that the address doesn’t code, the 
>> geocoding engine returns the census tract information for the nearest 
>> Post Office, which is not in the correct census tract.
>>
>> To get the correct information, we basically have two options.
>>
>> Option #1 is to drive out to every customer with a GPS unit and record 
>> the information into our system. Since we have approximately 1100 
>> customers with inaccurate information, this is going to be a time 
>> consuming process and would cost us several thousand dollars to collect 
>> – not to mention the lost man hours.
>>
>> Option #2 is 

Re: [WISPA] Hidden Node symptoms, and best practice with RTS/CTS solution?

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Routing will help considerably, and also coming with reasonable 
bandwidth control plans for all of the customers, enforced at the AP.   
I can get 40-50 people on an 802.11b AP with mostly 384k and 640k 
bandwidth packages.These are also bursted, and half speed on the 
upload, so on a download a 384k user will get a 384k burst for 30 
seconds, then is throttled down to 192 until the speed drops off.   On 
upload, it bursts to 192k at first, then drops to 88k.   This has worked 
very well for me and I have several thousand customers deployed with 
this methodology.   Very little if any hidden node problems with this setup.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> What equipment are you using and how many clients are you supporting per 
> sector?
>
> ryan
>
> rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
>   
>> Greetings,
>>
>> We have a busy site with two sectors bridged that covers a large area.  With
>> moderate traffic on the site, clients see a large slow up.  This is probably
>> due to the hidden node effect.  What are the best practices using RTS/CTS to
>> improve performance and what are the tradeoffs?  Yes I know a polled system
>> (nstreme, etc) is the best solution, but I want the best with what we have
>> in place.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Marshall
>>
>>
>> 
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[WISPA] weHAVEbroadband.com

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I got tired of seeing this weneedbroadband.com website coming up over 
and over on Twitter and in press releases, especially since so many of 
the places on their map already have access to WISPs.   So I registered 
http://www.wehavebroadband.com/ and pointed it to the WISP Directory.

Tell your friends.   Haha.   If you don't have your listings updated on 
the directory, please add the zip codes for all of your service areas.   
BTW - no census tract requirements here.

:^)

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I bought my E71 unlocked and it is an awesome phone.   It even went 
through a complete washer/dryer cycle with my laundry and came out just 
fine (after it dried out for a few hours).

I have mine setup with my office Asterisk server so that it will try my 
SIP extension first, then the cell phone number.   It's not perfect, but 
it works pretty well.   Biggest weakness is the client on the Nokia 
doesn't always link up to wifi and register the phone automatically.   
If I could get that sorted out I would be really happy.

If there were more inexpensive gsm/sip phones available, I think we 
could potentially have a product competitive with the cellcos.It 
works like this:

1)  Get a GSM/SIP capable cell phone
2)  Put in a prepaid GSM card from whatever provider
3)  Configure the SIP client to work with an Asterisk or other VOIP server.
4)  Port the customer's number to the Asterisk box
5)  Set up Asterisk so that it tries the SIP connection first, then goes 
to the prepaid number if SIP doesn't answer
6)  Setup the phone so that it goes out through SIP if available, and 
GSM if not available.
7)  e911 goes through the cell phone (no e911 to worry about!!!)
8)  Optimize VOIP traffic so that it runs well on your network, to your 
VOIP server.

In theory, this seems like it would work really well.   In my area, cell 
coverage sucks, so customers would be using their wifi access points as 
little cell-phone repeaters, but the traffic would actually be on VOIP, 
rather than the cell carrier.   Since the cell component would be a 
pre-paid card, the customer could just buy more prepaid cards when they 
run down.   And 911 is not the VOIP carrier's responsibility - it would 
be the cell carrier's responsibility.Selling prepaid cards or 
recharging them could also be a potential revenue stream.

Only catch - there aren't any cheap phones that will do this.   At least 
none that I have seen.My Nokia comes VERY close, but it was a $450 
phone.   We would need to have a $150 phone to make something like this 
work.   Something like this would take the normal cell phone users bill 
down by 50% or more each month, even compared to the plans that they are 
offering now.  

Anyone else out there doing something like this?

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Josh Luthman wrote:
> Nokia e71 is always unlocked AFAIK (I have never seen a locked one)
>
> You use the existing SIM card and get on that GSM network
>
> The SIP client connects to his Asterisk server, mine to my M6, your
> situation may be different...
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:08 PM, George Rogato  wrote:
>
>   
>> Jonathan Schmidt wrote:
>> 
>>> I have had a series of Nokia phones will use Wi-Fi thru its built-in SIP
>>> client directly to my office Asterisk and have been doing that for
>>>   
>> several
>> 
>>> years.  The E71 I have now is FAR superior to the earlier models in terms
>>> of Wi-Fi sensitivity.  I use it in conferences overseas...Europe and
>>> Brazil and Mexico for free US calling.  It works very well and I leave it
>>> on during the shows and my office can call me with the 4-digit Asterisk
>>> extension.  There's a Skype for it and the iPhone, too.
>>>
>>> . . . J o n a t h a n
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> So the Nokia E71 does cell and sip?
>> Is this ATT?
>>
>> Also, do you buy the phone and use existing cell phone card in that
>> phone and it just works?
>>
>> My original question is for one of my clients, but this phone might be
>> something I want.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Miami Vendor

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Hey All,

Im looking for a reputable Miami 2.4Ghz/5.8Ghz ISM unlicensed vendor.  
Probably going to get some radios + antennas.  Online would be good, but 
not required.

-Israel





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[WISPA] Crazy Weather

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Storm #2 rolling in today

We've already had three tornado warnings and at least one on the ground 
within three miles of my house.  Amazingly enough - nothing is down 
other than one site that had a brief power outage.  New 9 mile 19ghz 
link on 2' dishes faded from -48 to -70 for a while and then came back 
within a few minutes.  Seems like we have had rain and lightning almost 
every night for the last two weeks.   I can't help but feel that we are 
very fortunate that we have only had to replace a couple of radio units 
since it all started.

This is the most rain we have gotten here in probably ten years or so.  
Anyone else seeing weird weather so far this year? 

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] Project Management Software - Online

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

I'm currently running a test project with Basecamp, been so far impressed.

http://www.basecamphq.com/

-Israel


Gino Villarini wrote:
> Anyone with a recomendation ?
>  
>
> Gino A. Villarini 
> g...@aeronetpr.com 
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
>
>  
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Whats your life expectancy on those polyphasers?  Their website states 
they are good for multiple strikes, but just wondering about the 
durability. etc,.

-Israel

David Hulsebus wrote:
> Same here, Polyphasers. No more gas tubes. I hate getting a call that I 
> have to climb a water tank because a storm knocked out a gas cartridge.
>
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>   
>> That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with "gas tubes" in them. Too
>> much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying
>> polyphaser's and never looked back
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>  
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Hulsebus
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out 
>> in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> RickG wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
>>> fuse and either work or not?
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
>>> 
>>>   
>> wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.

 I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
 they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
   
 
>> me.
>>   
>> 
 marlon

  - Original Message -
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation


  Hi,

  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
 cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
   
 
>> and
>>   
>> 
 see if that helps.

  Travis


  Michael Baird wrote:
 Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?

 Antenna Height
ft
 Downtilt Angle
°
 Vertical Beamwidth
°
 Results
 Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
 Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
 Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles


 I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
 could with his inclinometer.

 Regards
 Michael Baird
  Where are you running the calcs? I use
 http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as

 With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7

 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

 Gino,

 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
 wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
 then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
 though.

 Regards
 Michael Baird

I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
 The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

 My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
 adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
 radius.
 Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
 CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18


dbi.

 RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
 16-20 db.

 I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
 first tower we've used them on.

 Regards
 Michael Baird



  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.

 What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?

 Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
 side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.

 Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
 especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
 a

[WISPA] SNMP Counters Available from Radios

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Hey All,

I just had a thought re: 900 Mhz across water thread.  Which radio 
vendors(models) have SNMP support for counters like SNR, Noise, RSSI, 
Radio Errors etc,.  Most ive found only show Linux interface statistics, 
rather than the radio characteristics. Or did you roll your own scripts 
to scrape data from Telnet/HTTP interfaces into your RRDTool systems 
(Cacti, STG, etc,.)

I'm thinking about 2.4Ghz equipment.

Have a good 4th of July! Slap those burgers and dogs on the grill!

-Israel



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[WISPA] NTIA Seeks Volunteers to Review Broadband Applications

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Did you guys hear about this?
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/070909-ntia-seeks-volunteers-to-review.html?page=1

Some people think its scary, but I think if done with enough guidance 
Volunteer Reviewers could cull a lot of crap out of this program 
applications.

-Israel



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Re: [WISPA] http://www.ilient.com/

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

As an aside, Kayako Support Suite is pretty good, used it at a few 
places and implemented at the last place I worked at.

http://www.kayako.com/solutions/supportsuite/
http://www.kayako.com/purchasing/pricing.php

Ryan Ghering wrote:
> I found it a week or so ago and have started to test it out in our office
> and its pretty sweet. I've got a price quote in for a full version myself.
> Will be interesting to find out what its gona cost.
>
> Ryan
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 5:21 PM, RickG  wrote:
>
>   
>> That covers 100 customers. I'm wondering what the cost for more is.
>> Thanks! -RickG
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Ryan Ghering wrote:
>> 
>>> http://www.sysaid.com/free-help-desk-software.htm
>>>
>>> There is the free edition..
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:55 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Actually, more helpful would be their prciing :)
 -RickG

 On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Jerry
 Richardson wrote:
 
> thought this might be useful for some.
>
>
>
>   
>> 
>> 
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>   


 
>> 
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[WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

For your vicarious enjoyment of nature vs. Ubiquiti products

http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Miscellaneous/

Won't be doing an RMA on this unit.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

No lightning protection on the little guy?  I imagine not since they 
were cheap.

-IL

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
> For your vicarious enjoyment of nature vs. Ubiquiti products
>
> http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Miscellaneous/
>
> Won't be doing an RMA on this unit.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

OpenDNS works in a pinch.

However filters for all of DNS requests originating from one public IP 
(Students & Admins)... you could go Hardware Based Filtering... 
barracuda and or cymphonix boxes as well.

-Israel

Scott Carullo wrote:
> I need a web content filter for K-12 school.  Paid Subscription ok.
>
> Please let me know what good products there are for this requirement.  Need 
> asap.  Thanks...
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

I have to agree.  It seem that these hardware boxes that try to do 'all 
in one' services (Routing, NAT, Firewall, AV, Content-Filtering, 
Spam)... seem to fall on their face.  I know of a consultant buddy of 
mine who implemented it, and hated every second of it.  He is still 
cursing at it when it fails (AD Connector stops working requiring manual 
resets of the box, etc,).

-IL

os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
> I had some very bad experiences with SonicWall and their service/ 
> support. For one thing their basic content filter package was useless  
> because it did not block proxy sites. They expected us to pay hundreds  
> more a year for their premium filter package just to get the  
> functionality of their basic package to work. Discussions with  
> customer service/tech support fell on deaf ears. There were heated  
> discussions on the forum (everyone was fed up with SonicWall) but  
> SonicWall wouldn't budge. We got a little response from them when I  
> suggested to the forum that perhaps this topic would be a good start  
> for a class action lawsuit. I was using one of their lowest end  
> products at the time so maybe they give better support for their  
> higher end products. However I would never use SonicWall again.  
> There's many other competitors out there. There's a few products which  
> I don't recall the name of but they're specifically geared to  
> scholastic/library settings.
>
> For our filtering needs we switched to Untangle. Another we used and  
> liked was Astaro.
>
> Greg
>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 7:31 AM, Jason Hensley wrote:
>
>   
>> Sonicwall has some outstanding products as far as an all-in-one  
>> appliance
>> for firewall, content filtering, spam, virus, etc etc.  I have one  
>> in place
>> for a school and our local library.  Make sure you get one with enough
>> horse-power.  A small school may work fine with a TZ-200 or TZ-190,  
>> but you
>> get very large, and you will quickly end up needing more than that.
>>
>> Be glad to quote you out one if you needed.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
>> On
>> Behalf Of Scott Carullo
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:35 PM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School
>>
>>
>> I need a web content filter for K-12 school.  Paid Subscription ok.
>>
>> Please let me know what good products there are for this  
>> requirement.  Need
>> asap.  Thanks...
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Client Internet Filtering Upgrade - WAS: Content Filter Suggestion for School

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

FYI.. Not every site will want to have the same filter settings.  Since 
you can define multiple networks in OpenDNS, the IP will have to 
originate from that network to get a specific set of content-filtering. 
If the request originates from the local DNS server, then you've just 
inadvertently applied those settings to everyone who might query that 
DNS server.

So you would have to force these 'filtered' networks to only request DNS 
from OpenDNS servers, and make sure each client has a public IP.

-IL

Josh Luthman wrote:
> I just thought about "how to get around this" and I wanted to share my
> thoughts.  If a location needs this filtering and you use opendns you'll
> want to drop all forwarded DNS traffic.  Force everyone to use an internal
> DNS server which in turn looks up via OpenDNS.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jason Hensley  wrote:
>
>   
>> On this same subject, anyone offering "upgrades" for filtered Internet
>> service to their clients?  Anyone using OpenDNS to do this?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of ccrum
>> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:29 PM
>> To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School
>>
>> OpenDNS is approved for this...best thing is it is free.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Scott Carullo wrote:
>> 
>>> I need a web content filter for K-12 school.  Paid Subscription ok.
>>>
>>> Please let me know what good products there are for this requirement.
>>>   
>> Need
>> 
>>> asap.  Thanks...
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Brevard Wireless
>>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
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[WISPA] We've got Cash for Clunkers - how about Dollars for Dialup

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

My suggestion for Phase II of the Broadband Stimulus Program:

http://tinyurl.com/kmd4hn

Other potential program titles:

Money for Modems?
Bucks for Broadband?
Wampum for Wireless?

Any other  ideas?

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com





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Re: [WISPA] Way to get Census Tract info for address in batch

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Martha Huizenga wrote:
> Hi,
>  
> I thought there was a way to get Census Tract info in batch, but the web 
> site I thought I used last time gives me Lat and Long. Can anyone 
> suggest a free site?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Martha
>   
I don't know of any free sites that will do a batch of addresses, some 
out there will do a few at a time.

My lead tech wrote a program that takes a batch of customer/GPS 
coordinates and returns the census tract information for each.   We will 
actually get our 477 filed this time.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] Way to get Census Tract info for address in batch

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Had something to do with downloading the shape files from the census 
site, then using a positioning gadget in Postgres, or something like 
that, to determine which tract the point was in.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Jon Auer wrote:
> Do you know what he is using to do the census tract lookup?
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists 
> wrote:
>   
>> Martha Huizenga wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I thought there was a way to get Census Tract info in batch, but the web
>>> site I thought I used last time gives me Lat and Long. Can anyone
>>> suggest a free site?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Martha
>>>
>>>   
>> I don't know of any free sites that will do a batch of addresses, some
>> out there will do a few at a time.
>>
>> My lead tech wrote a program that takes a batch of customer/GPS
>> coordinates and returns the census tract information for each.   We will
>> actually get our 477 filed this time.
>>
>> Matt Larsen
>> vistabeam.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] solar site

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Here is the setup that we recently did for a combination solar/wind 
powered site.   This is a StarOS site, X4000 board with four Mikrotik 
R52H cards in it.   One is 5ghz backhaul, two are for APs and the third 
card is a spare. 

2 60 watt solar panels
solar charge controller
air-x wind generator
four deep-cycle marine batteries (local auto parts store)
metal enclosure
24-48v converter (or 12 to 48, I forget which)
miscellaneous hardware for mounting/wiring

Total cost - $1850.00

If you were going solar only, it would be about $1250.

We also installed a device called a SuperRMS from Invictus Networks, 
which is awesome for alternative energy sites.   It has auto ping, 
remote power control and we are also able to graph the voltage of the 
panels, wind generator and batteries.   It was a bit pricey at $650 or 
so, but it is well worth it, as the sites we have on solar/wind are 
generally not very accessible.The SuperRMS tells us that the wind 
generator is generating almost no power and that the solar panels are 
generating plenty of power.   

Altogether, you are looking at about $2000 for a really good solar setup 
with full monitoring and remote control capabilities.   You can do it 
cheaper, but you will most likely burn up the extra money in battery 
replacements and extra trips to the site.  

Here are some pictures of the site:   
http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Hogback/

There are also some example graphs of the charge provided by the panels 
and the consumption of the radios throughout the day.   We could run 
about 100 people off this site and/or use it as a backhaul point to 
somewhere else.   I have four other sites similar to this on my network 
- one is wind/solar and the other three are wind only - and they have 
proven to be very reliable.   There are some occasional issues.   Wind 
generators will sometimes cook batteries, so you need to turn the 
voltage down a little bit.   Also, four batteries works a lot better 
than two batteries because if you have a cell go bad, you aren't 
completely out of luck.   Also, more batteries means less chance of them 
overcharging.Solar power is a lot more linear and good for providing 
baseline power.   Wind will charge batteries very quickly if there is 
wind.   Unfortunately, even though we have the best wind resource in the 
world here in Wyoming/Nebraska, there are occasions where the wind won't 
blow for ten days in a row and that can cause problems.  

I hope this is useful to you and anyone else looking to do wind/solar 
for your sites.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


Mike Hammett wrote:
> Indeed.  AC/DC conversions lose 20% each way.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Paul Rice" 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:19 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site
>
>   
>> I'd recommend you use either a unmanaged or managed industrial DC powered
>> switch 12-20 vdc
>> otherwise your going to need a LOT of solar panels (650 watts is what my
>> calcs came up with)
>> In fact eliminate all 120 AC from your outdoor install for the best 
>> results
>> to save money on smaller solar rigs.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> --
>> From: "Paul Rice" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:09 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site
>>
>> 
>>> Yikes, that is daunting.
>>>
>>> Is that the site your putting in, or your example site?
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:04 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site
>>>
>>>   
 120

 - Original Message - 
 From: "Paul Rice" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site


 
> Hey Marlon
>
> is that 1.8 amps at 120VAC or 1.8 amps at 12VDC?
>
> volts x amps = watts
> the precise nominal and max watts that is the real factor determining
> the
> size of the power system needed
> the difference is 25 watts or 250 watts :)
> CostCo has a solar panel + charger + frame that would work for 25 
> watts,
> I
> think
>
> 500 is good price, since your able to access it easily, it shouldn't be
> much
> of risk.
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:29 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site
>
>   
>> Are you really saying that less than 500 bucks will build a solar
>> system
>> good enough for our radios these days?
>>
>> Dude, if that's true I can open up a LOT more doors!
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Mike" 
>

Re: [WISPA] solar site

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Here is the graph straight from the charge monitor for our solar panels, 
to give you an idea what the charging pattern looks like.   This is for 
a pair of 60w panels.

http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Hogback/graph_image1.png.html

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

Christopher Erickson wrote:
> First, the Sun never shines 24 hours in a day unless you are above
> the Arctic circle.  And even then, that only happens for a few days
> of the year.
>
> Second, there isn't much charging going on when the Sun is near the
> horizon, which is most of the time when in Northern latitudes.
>
> For example, an 80 watt panel will NEVER output 80 watts in Anchorage,
> Alaska because even at solar noon in the summer, the Sun is only
> around 60 degrees up in the sky.  And below about 25 degrees, there
> isn't any charging going on at all.
>
> So anyway think of an amperage sine wave that builds up in the morning,
> peaks at solar noon and then diminishes in the afternoon.
>
> The math is more complicated than it first appears.
>
> "My advice is always free and worth every penny!"
>
> -Christopher Erickson
> Network Design Engineer
> 5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529
> Anchorage, AK 99508
>
>
>
>   
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Mike
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:06 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar site
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure I buy into your math.  If I have a repeater site that is 
>> pulling 1A @ 12V, then it is consuming something like 12W, right?  If 
>> I have 60W of solar panel (2 toys) then when conditions are optimal, 
>> I have 48W left over to charge the battery.
>>
>> Lets say I am REALLY north, and the panels are only producing 45W.  I 
>> still am consuming 12W with the radios, and have 33W left over to 
>> charge the battery.  If I have an 800AH battery 24 Hours of sun will 
>> run the radios AND fully charge the battery.  If the sun shines 24 
>> hours out of 33.3 days, I will stay ahead of the curve and the 
>> battery will stay charged.
>>
>> No sun for 33.3 days and my 800AH battery will finally die.  I NEVER 
>> see those conditions here in the midwest.  I'll still maintain you 
>> can do a repeater site for $500 in solar power costs and if you 
>> monitor battery condition it will work just fine.
>>
>> At 09:54 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote:
>> 
>>> Here in the north, I wouldn't bother with anything less than 100w of
>>> panel.
>>>   
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
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[WISPA] Weird Request: Looking for the old YDI 180degree H-pol sectors

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I have a couple of sites that I need to sectorize and am looking for a 
couple of 180degree H-pol 2.4ghz sectors.I have a bunch of the old 
YDI 180degree sector antennas that have been far better than any others 
that I have used (great f/b ratio and 14db gain), but I'm pretty sure 
that they are out of production.   In addition to the YDI brand, I 
believe they were manufactured by a company called US Microwave.

If anyone has a few of these lying around (or even just one) I would be 
very interested in purchasing up to five of them.   Someone probably has 
10 or 15 sitting in the back of a warehouse somewhere.If you have 
one or know where I could find some, please let me know (offlist or on).

Thanks!

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com
 



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Re: [WISPA] AM radio tower

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Michael,

If you get any responses off-list, I would be happy to hear.  I have a 
similar situation, but down in Honduras.  I posted nearly an exact 
question to yours, and the consensus was.

1) Install Noise Suppression, and Shielded Twisted Pair
2) Install only when the Tower is unpowered

In my situation we want to use the 1KW AM Radio because of how tall the 
tower is, our stuff is 2.4 as well but we plan on 5.8 soon.

-Israel

Michael Baird wrote:
> *I've recently been approached about expanding our service to an AM 
> tower. We would be using 2.4 gear, what kind of problems would I need to 
> watch out for when deploying on an AM tower. They said it was 
> broadcasting at 1KW and the entire tower is hot. It is in a really good 
> area, is a nice tower and the price is minimal, but I want to avoid as 
> many service problems as possible by knowing what I'm getting into 
> beforehand.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
> *
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Hi Shaddi,

You know what would be cool.  Is a few things

* Use the features of Radio Mobile as a basis for radio-propogation
  o SRTM3 Terrain Mapping
  o Flexible Radio Network Topology (VoiceNet, Master/Slave, etc,.)
  o Point to point link analysis
  o Visual Coverage
  o Might be pie in the sky, but at least a good direction
feature wise, implementation is up to you.
* ANND... Add some wiki style features like a database of Radios,
  Antennas
  o Radios
+ Spectrum
+ Power
+ Sensitivity
+ etc,.
  o Antennas
+ Gain
+ Panel Type
+ Images?
+ Antenna Spread (Polar map)

But I think the easiest thing for you would be to start with the SRTM3 
dataset, see if you can render that into a browser so people could do 
basic LOS functionality. The added plus for us ("US" being an NGO doing 
field installations) would adding extra data points to the terrain data 
to get a more accurate reading.  (Some areas only get 90m resolution 'i 
think' and the USA gets 30m resolution.)  So if we could load GPS trails 
that would show us the difference between SRTM and the GPS readings we 
could do better simulations.

Thats my 2c in the pot.

-Israel

Shaddi Hasan wrote:
> Howdy WISPA!
>
> Just joined today but wanted to chime in -- some students here at UNC Chapel
> Hill are working on a browser-based link planning tool as a semester
> project. It will be released as open-source at the end of the semester, so
> we'd like it to be useful not only for our projects but for the community at
> large. While primarily geared towards community wireless projects, it'd be
> great if it could be useful for the professional WISP community. So, if you
> have any feedback on what features you'd like to see in such a tool, lessons
> you all have learned that should be incorporated into its design, or the
> concept generally, please contact me.
>
> To the OP, check back in December and we might have something to offer you!
>
> Shaddi
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Robert West 
> wrote:
>
>   
>> What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan
>> the build?  I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't get
>> that thing to work even with the step by step instructions.  I've been
>> finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in
>> Google
>> Earth.  Sucks.
>>
>> Anyone using a good software app that will plot the links and give me the
>> easy thumbs up or thumbs down?
>>
>> Sorry to be a pain with all these questions.  It's been too hectic and I
>> just don't have the time to sit for 2 days evaluating crap software.  I'd
>> rather be told what's good by real users.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Organite.  It's not just for breakfast anymore."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Actually...

If you have the lastest radio mobile it is able to automatically pull 
down the SRTM3 files.

What I did in one case where I didnt have the SRTM file, and I was going 
to be out in the field I downloaded the files by hand from this site. 
http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/North_America/ OR from Nasa 
Direct.
And (unzipped) put them in a directory for radio mobile (Same directory 
as described in the map properties window)



And actually I just re-ran my radiomobile program, and its automatically 
grabbing the SRTM Data (140 sets to be exact)
This is what I have setup for my 'internet options'


Im running version 9.8.1


Robert West wrote:
> Okay, I went through it here and getting the terrain maps is indeed the
> place where I give up.  Anyone have a good step by step to get the map in
> the thing??
>
>
> I totally believe the 4 hour thing.  My issue is, every hour...  "Are you
> STILL up?!"
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:47 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>
> It takes 4hrs in the idle of the night with zero interruptions. Once you do
> that it will gel.
>
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
> Sent Mobile (Probably one handed)
>
> 
> From: Robert West 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:19 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List' 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>
> You know, I haven't a clue!  It looks simple, heck yes!  Everyone says it's
> easy but I'll be darned if I can't get anything out of it.  Now you also
> have to understand, when I try to work with it I have 3 kids, a cat and the
> wife all wanting something.  Time was not well spent when I've tried it.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of David E. Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:45 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>
> Robert West wrote:
>   
>> What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan
>> the build?  I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't
>> 
> get
>   
>> that thing to work even with the step by step instructions.  I've been
>> finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in
>> 
> Google
>   
>> Earth.
>> 
>
> Where are you getting hung up? Radio Mobile is probably the best free
> tool you're gonna get, and once set up, works pretty well. (The
> trickiest part probably is getting the terrain data you need, but you
> only have to do that once.)
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Doh.  Forgot cant use HTML email and pasted images.  I will see if I 
cant make a PDF guide or so on how to get terrain data.

-Israel

Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> Actually...
>
> If you have the lastest radio mobile it is able to automatically pull 
> down the SRTM3 files.
>
> What I did in one case where I didnt have the SRTM file, and I was going 
> to be out in the field I downloaded the files by hand from this site. 
> http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/North_America/ OR from Nasa 
> Direct.
> And (unzipped) put them in a directory for radio mobile (Same directory 
> as described in the map properties window)
>
>
>
> And actually I just re-ran my radiomobile program, and its automatically 
> grabbing the SRTM Data (140 sets to be exact)
> This is what I have setup for my 'internet options'
>
>
> Im running version 9.8.1
>
>
> Robert West wrote:
>   
>> Okay, I went through it here and getting the terrain maps is indeed the
>> place where I give up.  Anyone have a good step by step to get the map in
>> the thing??
>>
>>
>> I totally believe the 4 hour thing.  My issue is, every hour...  "Are you
>> STILL up?!"
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:47 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>>
>> It takes 4hrs in the idle of the night with zero interruptions. Once you do
>> that it will gel.
>>
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>> Sent Mobile (Probably one handed)
>>
>> 
>> From: Robert West 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:19 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List' 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>>
>> You know, I haven't a clue!  It looks simple, heck yes!  Everyone says it's
>> easy but I'll be darned if I can't get anything out of it.  Now you also
>> have to understand, when I try to work with it I have 3 kids, a cat and the
>> wife all wanting something.  Time was not well spent when I've tried it.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of David E. Smith
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:45 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan
>>> the build?  I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't
>>> 
>>>   
>> get
>>   
>> 
>>> that thing to work even with the step by step instructions.  I've been
>>> finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in
>>> 
>>>   
>> Google
>>   
>> 
>>> Earth.
>>> 
>>>   
>> Where are you getting hung up? Radio Mobile is probably the best free
>> tool you're gonna get, and once set up, works pretty well. (The
>> trickiest part probably is getting the terrain data you need, but you
>> only have to do that once.)
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Actually I just found this: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/14302

Seems to sum up what I was trying to say =D

-Israel

Robert West wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Israel Lopez-LISTS
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:28 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>
> Doh.  Forgot cant use HTML email and pasted images.  I will see if I 
> cant make a PDF guide or so on how to get terrain data.
>
> -Israel
>
> Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
>   
>> Actually...
>>
>> If you have the lastest radio mobile it is able to automatically pull 
>> down the SRTM3 files.
>>
>> What I did in one case where I didnt have the SRTM file, and I was going 
>> to be out in the field I downloaded the files by hand from this site. 
>> http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/North_America/ OR from Nasa 
>> Direct.
>> And (unzipped) put them in a directory for radio mobile (Same directory 
>> as described in the map properties window)
>>
>>
>>
>> And actually I just re-ran my radiomobile program, and its automatically 
>> grabbing the SRTM Data (140 sets to be exact)
>> This is what I have setup for my 'internet options'
>>
>>
>> Im running version 9.8.1
>>
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> Okay, I went through it here and getting the terrain maps is indeed the
>>> place where I give up.  Anyone have a good step by step to get the map in
>>> the thing??
>>>
>>>
>>> I totally believe the 4 hour thing.  My issue is, every hour...  "Are you
>>> STILL up?!"
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:47 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>>>
>>> It takes 4hrs in the idle of the night with zero interruptions. Once you
>>>   
> do
>   
>>> that it will gel.
>>>
>>> Jerry Richardson
>>> airCloud Communications
>>> Sent Mobile (Probably one handed)
>>>
>>> 
>>> From: Robert West 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:19 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List' 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>>>
>>> You know, I haven't a clue!  It looks simple, heck yes!  Everyone says
>>>   
> it's
>   
>>> easy but I'll be darned if I can't get anything out of it.  Now you also
>>> have to understand, when I try to work with it I have 3 kids, a cat and
>>>   
> the
>   
>>> wife all wanting something.  Time was not well spent when I've tried it.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of David E. Smith
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:45 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
>>>
>>> Robert West wrote:
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you
>>>> 
> plan
>   
>>>> the build?  I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>> get
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> that thing to work even with the step by step instructions.  I've been
>>>> finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>> Google
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> Earth.
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>> Where are you getting hung up? Radio Mobile is probably the best free
>>> tool you're gonna get, and once set up, works pretty well. (The
>>> trickiest part probably is getting the terrain data you need, but you
>>> only have to do that once.)
>>>
>>> David Smith
>>> MVN.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
> -

[WISPA] NAT Limits on StarOS/Mikrotik

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hello all,

We've been doing some troubleshooting of some occasional issues with 
NATed customers and started to wonder if we have reached the limits of 
what we can do with a single NAT server.

Right now, I have one NAT server that has two Internet backbone 
connections coming into it.   This server is running StarOS.   We have 
about 1700 subs NATted behind a single IP address on this server.

Behind it, I have a Mikrotik server that is handling all traffic coming 
into that server from the private network side.   Looking at the 
IP/Firewall/Connections listing on this server, I see 69000-71000 items 
in the list.   My lead tech is concerned that we only have 65536 ports 
to use on a single IP address, and we might be using all of them and 
having connection issues.  

Anyone on the list more versed in Mikrotik/Linux/routing etc that might 
be able to shed some light on this?

Thanks!

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com



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Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping 
contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away 
with a bad feeling.

Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration 
information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of 
Nebraska.  But they only have complete information for about 25, and 
signed NDAs from only 160.   I offered to them that they would have 
better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much 
information.The data template that they ask for includes:

1)  All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that 
location
2)  GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of 
antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location
3)  Key "anchor institutions" that are receiving service from our system

I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth 
with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still 
adamant about the data collection requirements.   I thought that we had 
negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a 
summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone 
call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that 
do not include the tower verification information and subscriber 
information in the format that they requested) will not be included in 
the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be 
released to the public.

The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that 
the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA 
should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary 
information.   My position, and the position of the majority of WISP 
operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over 
the information that they are asking for.   Full disclosure of all my 
tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and 
fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists 
within the state.   I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by 
a government funded program in the future than to turn over information 
to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn 
over that information through a FOIA request.

I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce 
the data that they are requesting.   I can sympathise to a certain 
degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to 
collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect.  But they are 
simply asking for too much information.   In the end, it will be another 
inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information 
will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the 
competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more 
difficult to succeed in.   That sucks.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com



On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
> BTOP Mapping grants given to States are  Federal initiatives. The states
> have to answer and report to the Feds on their progress.
>
> Basically they will report to the Feds, who they contacted, and who provided
> info and who didn't. The State mappers have little authority to do anything
> about whether you give them information or not.
> But the Feds potentially could.  Remember it is FCC policy/law to provide
> Form 477 data, down to Census track.
>
> It may come down to a legal issue on whether the FCC has authority to demand
> confidential information or not from provate companies.  When a WISP does
> not provide info, whether the Feds or States make a stink about it, may
> depend on the impact of the data that would be missing, and their real legal
> opinion which I'm sure they would not truly disclose outside of court.
>
> In MD, we were just contacted, and the mapping initiative is really a racket
> for free money. MD had already started a very substanial mapping effort at
> the State Level. But that is considered different. So with teh BTOP mapping
> grant they got, they cant or choose not to use the pre-existing MApping
> platform, and basically are starting a seperate project to comply to the
> federal initatives. Basically DOUBLE spending, to get the FREE money. Or
> maybe I should say different applicants would be beneficiaries of the
> mapping funds.  The mapping group in our state was given to a legit group
> that was formed by the state and gained many members of wireline and fiber
> carriers.
>
> They reached out to me with intent to try to amicably work with us, but they
> were surprised by some of the comments that I made prior. For example, they
> brought up the benefit of lead generation if I filed. I stated... "If they
> were going to post my coverage and contact info for the world to see, I
> wouldn't file because I dont want everyone from all over the place calling
> me for service, because it would clog our sales lin

[WISPA] Broadband Fiasco Followup

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Apparently my tirade about broadband mapping reached a few ears in 
Washington, as the NE PSC called me this afternoon to let me know that 
the NTIA is willing to accept shape files and is willing to relax some 
of the data requirements in order to get fuller representation from 
WISPs.Making ourselves heard and showing a willingness to be part of 
the solution is the first step to getting better results.


Here is a copy of the email that I sent to the Nebraska PSC today with 
my followup comments.   Other commentary and discussion regarding this 
is available at Wireless Cowboys http://www.wirelesscowboys.com/


Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


I am writing with further comments and concerns about the Nebraska 
Broadband Mapping Initiative. After participating in the conference call 
about the mapping program yesterday, I was left with several concerns.

My first concern is about the accuracy of the data that will be 
collected. The number of providers that have not responded to the NDA 
request and/or the data request is very high, and that means that there 
will be substantial inaccuracies in the final dataset that will make the 
final results of the project flawed. A dataset that only includes 20-50% 
of the total data needed could lead to policy decisions that could have 
an adverse affect on the smaller providers that cover otherwise unserved 
areas by encouraging government supported overbuilds. This would be 
wasteful of taxpayer money and could put many of the smaller providers 
out of business, causing a net loss of jobs and the loss of broadband 
service to customers of those smaller providers. It is critical that 
most if not all of the broadband providers in the state be represented 
in this project. The attitude that the state contractor appears to have 
is that non respondents will simply not be included. I would hope that 
this attitude will change to be more inclusive of the smaller, 
non-wireline providers who do not have the ability to generate the 
requested data easily.

My second concern is about the data that is being requested. The data 
request template is asking for a lot of data that I don't feel 
comfortable divulging to any outside entities, including customer 
addresses, GPS coordinates and frequencies used on our towers and the 
anchor institutions that we serve. Many of the other WISPs that I work 
with are also not comfortable turning this information over to an 
outside party, even with the NDA. After several discussions with other 
experts in the mapping and data collection field, I have come to the 
conclusion that the mapping requirements would be effectively served by 
delivering the GIS shape files of our coverage areas along with a 
summary of subscribers in each census block. I have already delivered 
the requested shape files showing our coverage, and am working toward 
the census block summaries. If the data requirements could be adjusted 
so that this information would be suitable, I believe that you would get 
more response from the smaller providers.

My third concern is about the cost for smaller, non-wireline providers 
to collect the data. While most wireline providers already have shape 
files and geocoding information already collected and available, many 
wireless providers do not have this information readily available and do 
not have the tools or technical knowledge to get this information 
collected within the requested time frame. Committing man hours to do 
this in-house or bring in outside assistance places an undue financial 
burden on providers that are often self-funded and would prefer to 
invest that money into their networks. The grant was given to the PSC, 
not the providers, and yet we are being asked to spend our time and 
money to get this information together. Coming up with a way to help 
provide the manpower and financial assistance necessary to collect this 
information would provide a win-win situation for the providers and the 
PSC and increase the amount of data collected.

Finally, I believe that more effective outreach could be established 
with the providers so that the comfort level is higher. Sending an email 
with a large data request and a short deadline for response is not going 
to be received well. A series of emails with detailed explanations of 
the program's purposes and benefits to providers, an intelligently 
designed website with progress reports and followup phone calls to the 
providers who have not returned the information would go over much 
better. WISPs have not been required to collect this information up to 
this point and there is no mandate for its collection, so it makes sense 
to build up a positive relationship rather than dictate what should be 
provided. One benefit of this process is that it is an opportunity for 
the Public Service Commission to build a rapport with the WISPs and gain 
a better understanding of their place in the broadband infrastructure 
while educating them about the purposes and 

Re: [WISPA] When to route?

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

When to route?   From the very start!!!

If you take the time to learn the basics of OSPF, implement NAT and/or 
use private IPs for the links between systems and use a logical design 
for your subnets it is relatively easy to route.   Understanding the 
basics of OSPF is really key, because static routing gets too 
complicated after the first few nodes and OSPF will handle it all much 
easier.   OSPF also makes it possible to build automatic failover into 
the network.   I have several "rings" in my network that automatically 
re-route in different directions when there are outages and I can easily 
set preference for traffic to flow in different directions based on 
backhaul capacity, latency and other factors.

Bridging is a disaster waiting to happen.   Every day that you run a 
bridged network is a day closer to the eventual disaster.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com


On 4/13/2010 11:37 PM, Jeromie Reeves wrote:
> Yes if you route at the CPE then the backhauls can bridge and your
> (mostly) good (this is how i do it)
> What you need to worry about here is clients who plug in their routers
> backwards and things like that.
> It helps if you do not have client routers (routing/dhcp in the CPE,
> switch inside)
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Mark Dueck  wrote:
>
>> Question: If you have all client computers behind a router, then you are
>> mostly protected from broadcasting and the need for routing is not that
>> high, right?
>>
>> I have a small network and I'm starting to do some routing between
>> longer backhaul links, and between cities. So far, I don't know if I've
>> seen a difference yet.
>>
>> On 04/13/2010 10:08 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>  
>>> We're up to about 400 subs on one half of the network.  We're about to start
>>> routing.  We'll know in a few months if it helps or not.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Greg Ihnen"
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:02 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] When to route?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
 OK, I know: "friends don't let friends bridge networks". But at what if
 the networks are small?

 The reason I ask is I'm wondering if I'd have anything to gain by setting
 up static routing (now that the new UBNT beta added this to the gui).

 What I have is a satellite internet modem going to an MT box. The MT box
 is wired to an 802.11g AP/wired switch (which has wireless clients). Also
 wired to that switch are two backhauls with clients at the far ends. One
 backhaul is a pair of PS2's (the one closest to the switch is WDS Station
 and the far end is WDS AP with clients). The other backhaul is a pair of
 NS5M's running Airmax (obviously no clients) and wired to the far NS5M is
 a Bullet 2M running as 802.11b/g/n AP with clients. All the hardware is in
 the 192.168.7.x/24 range as are most of the clients, though I give some
 clients addresses in the 192.168.0.x/24 range to keep them isolated from
 the hardware and other clients. The MT box doesn't allow traffic between
 the 192.168.7.x and the 192.168.0.x net.


   
 ---PS2~~~PS2
 with clients (192.168.0.x)
 /
 Sat modem---MT box---switch/ap with clients 192.168.7.x
 \
   
 NS5M~NS5MBullet2M
 with clients 192.168.7.x


 I'm assuming now traffic for all clients transit all segments of the
 network i.e. traffic for a client wirelessly connected to the Bullet2M is
 also transiting the segment of the network comprised of the PS2's. Is that
 right or does the gear (in this case the switch joining the different
 segments of the network learn who's where and route the traffic
 accordingly? I'm assuming not. So if I made it so the clients on each AP
 were in a different subnet and static routed then traffic would only
 travel the pertinent network segment?

 Greg


 
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>>>
>>> 
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>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Ubnt vs Moto vs ... your brand

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Right on schedule, its time for the 802.11 vs Canopy crusades.

If you deploy it right, you should be able to get about 40-50 subs on 
802.11 based APs.   If your application is going to require higher 
density than that, go with Canopy, as you can probably get 120-150 per 
AP before they max out.If you intend to deploy symmetrical speeds, 
you should probably deploy Canopy.

10mhz channel sizes seem to make a big difference on 802.11, as you can 
then put up more sectors and the throughput doesn't diminish that much 
with the half-size channels.   I wouldn't put up Ubiquiti or Tranzeo 
APs, I would definitely go with StarOS or Mikrotik for the APs to get 
the added functionality that they offer.   I have several thousand subs 
deployed on my network and on networks that I designed handling VOIP and 
just about any other application needed by the end users just fine - all 
with 802.11 based gear.   A special thanks to the Canopy guys out there 
who have been selling me their used Tranzeo CPEs - your old radios are 
alive and well on my network.   Win-Win.

If you are going to scale to huge numbers per AP, you will need to be 
just as concerned with obtaining high-capacity backhaul than PtMP 
performance.   The 802.11 based backhauls are cheap and ubiquitous and 
do pretty good up to about 20meg, but they are about done at that 
point.   Drop the extra coin and get licensed backhauls.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

On 4/13/2010 8:06 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> This is what I am in the process of doing now.  We have another 200 subs
> to be converted next month.  Then another 100 subs after that.  Not only
> is it a multiple truck roll incident, but I already paid for the
> MikroTik gear...and now am replacing customer equipment with Canopy.
> ROI just got extended an additional 6 months.  We just replaced a
> complete Trango 900 AP with Canopy 900.  Performance is just better and
> it scales.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com
> http://www.shelbybb.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:24 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubnt vs Moto vs ... your brand
>
> Hi,
>
> Let's keep it simple and easy. With Canopy your system can scale
> infinitely (due to GPS sync) and latency is always very low and
> consistent (less than 10ms). With UBNT, you can build a system much
> cheaper, and one that will probably work in a small, rural area.
> However, it does not scale.
>
> So, the question you have to ask is: Will your network ever grow to the
> size that you run out of channels? On a single tower, there are roughly
> six legal channels in the 5.8ghz band (using 20mhz channel size). None
> of the other channels are legal with UBNT gear. So you have 6 channels
> to use for your entire network, and you can't co-locate near adjacent
> channels, and you can't have two AP's on different towers facing each
> other on the same channel.
>
> The problem we made on our network was trying to use Mikrotik for PtMP
> deployments and discovering that it doesn't scale. We ended up having to
> go to every customer we had installed on two big towers and change them
> out to Canopy. So we had to roll a truck twice. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> Glenn Kelley wrote:
>
>> In trying to make the right buying decision - some simple answers may
>> help.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.  What is the meantime failure rate for your ubiquity equipment
>>
>> 2.  What is the avg amount of truck rolls per week you run to fix an
>> issue vs the # of customers you have?
>> ie- if you have say 1500 clients and do 8 troubleshooting calls a week
>>  
>
>> then it would be 1500/8 = .0053% )
>>
>> 3.  how often does a tech call come in (w/o a truck roll) that is
>> equipment related...  For some reason I think some of the ubiquity
>> radios just need a power cycle and voila - they behave much better...
>> so - what is the average # of calls per total clients that come in
>> that are fixed w/ simple methods vs a truck roll for the ubiquity
>> users ...
>>
>>
>>
>> Moto Users - do you have this info as well:
>>
>> Reason I ask is because I am wondering - if the cost of Moto is
>> actually worth it...  as a smaller operator - this information would
>> be most beneficial for sure.
>>
>> Buying a Moto radio - even if 2 or 3 times the $$ if - the service
>> calls on the back side are much less - might be worth it.
>>
>> Perhaps the cost of Radio vs People (both in manpower as well as
>> client satisfaction for uptime) make the buying decision much
>> easier...  but having some numbers to go along with this would be
>>  
> great.
>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
> 
> 
>
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>  
> ---

[WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Routing vs. Bridging is an easy discussion...

Bridge until you get a certain number of subs then route.  Traffic 
isolation, minimize broadcast storms, etc.

Route if you have multiple backhauls to a site.

However, I have heard of WISPs with thousands of subscribers bridging with 
VLANs to do traffic isolation.

Anyone care to share on this topic your experience either way?

I'm considering a change in our routing infrastructure. 




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Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Opinion #1.

Anybody with large bridged systems?

- Original Message - 
From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use


> . Route from Day One. why pickup bad habits bridging .
>
>
> :)
>
> Faisal
>
> On 4/14/2010 1:27 PM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote:
>> Routing vs. Bridging is an easy discussion...
>>
>> Bridge until you get a certain number of subs then route.  Traffic
>> isolation, minimize broadcast storms, etc.
>>
>> Route if you have multiple backhauls to a site.
>>
>> However, I have heard of WISPs with thousands of subscribers bridging 
>> with
>> VLANs to do traffic isolation.
>>
>> Anyone care to share on this topic your experience either way?
>>
>> I'm considering a change in our routing infrastructure.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
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>>
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use

[Mark Nash - Lists]

I didn't mean to sound short or rude with this last message.  I mean no 
disrespect.  I've been networking for 25 years... Novell servers, MS, IP 
networks, blah blah blah.

It's just that I expected this response, but I want to INVITE other 
opinions.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Nash - Lists" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use


> Opinion #1.
>
> Anybody with large bridged systems?
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use
>
>
>> . Route from Day One. why pickup bad habits bridging .
>>
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Faisal
>>
>> On 4/14/2010 1:27 PM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote:
>>> Routing vs. Bridging is an easy discussion...
>>>
>>> Bridge until you get a certain number of subs then route.  Traffic
>>> isolation, minimize broadcast storms, etc.
>>>
>>> Route if you have multiple backhauls to a site.
>>>
>>> However, I have heard of WISPs with thousands of subscribers bridging
>>> with
>>> VLANs to do traffic isolation.
>>>
>>> Anyone care to share on this topic your experience either way?
>>>
>>> I'm considering a change in our routing infrastructure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Eric, how many clients / tower sites / APs are you serving this way?

Do you expect it to scale to double/triple your size now?

- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Muehleisen" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use


> We are primarily a PPPoE shop and run a bridged system for that reason.
> Each AP has it's own VLAN bridged back to the core. We've done this for
> many years without a single issue.
>
> We have different service offerings like VOIP, PPPoE, DHCP, PTPVPN and
> even extend our metro ethernet across our wireless network. VLAN's work
> great for this.
>
> -Eric
>
> On 4/14/2010 1:01 PM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote:
>> I didn't mean to sound short or rude with this last message.  I mean no
>> disrespect.  I've been networking for 25 years... Novell servers, MS, IP
>> networks, blah blah blah.
>>
>> It's just that I expected this response, but I want to INVITE other
>> opinions.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mark Nash - Lists"
>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use
>>
>>
>>
>>> Opinion #1.
>>>
>>> Anybody with large bridged systems?
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Faisal Imtiaz"
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:34 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Routing / Bridging / VLAN Use
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> . Route from Day One. why pickup bad habits bridging .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> Faisal
>>>>
>>>> On 4/14/2010 1:27 PM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Routing vs. Bridging is an easy discussion...
>>>>>
>>>>> Bridge until you get a certain number of subs then route.  Traffic
>>>>> isolation, minimize broadcast storms, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Route if you have multiple backhauls to a site.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I have heard of WISPs with thousands of subscribers bridging
>>>>> with
>>>>> VLANs to do traffic isolation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone care to share on this topic your experience either way?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm considering a change in our routing infrastructure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant email 
list.  Still bothering this list, I see...

- Original Message - 
From: "MDK" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly


> http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/
>
> This is why so many of us say anymore "Just don't let the federal 
> government
> do anything" that way there's no incentive to corrupt it.
>
> The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for 
> corruption,
> the more opportunity, the more it happens.
>
> Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us?
>
>
> ++
> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> ++
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Give the facts, give the opinion, leave the radical commentary for the other 
lists for people who share your views and want to hear it.

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly


It does apply here.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Mark Nash - Lists  
wrote:
> Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant email
> list. Still bothering this list, I see...
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "MDK" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
>
>
>> http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/
>>
>> This is why so many of us say anymore "Just don't let the federal
>> government
>> do anything" that way there's no incentive to corrupt it.
>>
>> The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for
>> corruption,
>> the more opportunity, the more it happens.
>>
>> Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us?
>>
>>
>> ++
>> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
>> 541-969-8200 509-386-4589
>> ++
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Looking at the words, you're correct.  Perhaps I'm going more off of prior 
feelings of prior posts.  Sorry for that.

If you've been a WISPA member for years like I have, you know Mark 
Koskenmaki's anti-government views.  You've heard the over & over & over & 
over & over & over.  So yes a little sick of them, I am...

Hence the quick response from me.

Sorry for doing that this time, Mark.

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly


>I only saw facts & opinion, nothing radical. So, I guess you need to
> define "radical".
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Mark Nash - Lists  
> wrote:
>> Give the facts, give the opinion, leave the radical commentary for the 
>> other
>> lists for people who share your views and want to hear it.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "RickG" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
>>
>>
>> It does apply here.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Mark Nash - Lists 
>> wrote:
>>> Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant 
>>> email
>>> list. Still bothering this list, I see...
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "MDK" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
>>>
>>>
>>>> http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/
>>>>
>>>> This is why so many of us say anymore "Just don't let the federal
>>>> government
>>>> do anything" that way there's no incentive to corrupt it.
>>>>
>>>> The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for
>>>> corruption,
>>>> the more opportunity, the more it happens.
>>>>
>>>> Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ++
>>>> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
>>>> 541-969-8200 509-386-4589
>>>> ++
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> 
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>
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[WISPA] [OT] Chicken Currency

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

95% of the members of this list are probably not familiar with an old 
WISPCON story that had to do with chickens being currency in Latvia and 
how I love to throw some abuse at the Mikrotik guys about this when I 
see them.   For those 5% though, I think you will appreciate that 
perhaps the Latvians are actually ahead of us:

http://lowdenplan.com/

The full Mikrotik chicken story is at the end of this email, for those 
of you who might be interested.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

The Mikrotik Chickens story

During one of the Chicago WISPCONs (4 or 5, I believe) we had an 
off-campus excursion that involved limosines, liquor and late night 
activities.   At one point in the evening, I was in a limo with Arnis 
from Mikrotik.   For those who don't know him, Arnis is a very 
softspoken and intelligent guy.   The rest of the people in the limo 
were pretty loud and raucus, while Arnis mostly sat quietly and 
watched.   At some point in the conversation, John Scrivner asked him 
what the "gentlemen's clubs" in Latvia were like.   At the same time, 
someone else was talking about getting some fried chicken and coming up 
with money to get it.   Between the two conversations, I thought that 
something was said about chickens being used as currency in Latvia.   
Smart ass that I am, I thought I'd make a comment:

Me:  "Hey John, what's the worst thing about a Latvian gentleman's club?"
John:  "I don't know."
Me:  "Slipping the chickens into the dancer's G-string!"

 From that point on, I have been quite boorishly giving the Mikrotik 
guys the business about chickens as currency.   A picture of a chicken 
in a hotel lobby became the "Latvian Express Card".   An order of wings 
is "pocket change"  Etc etc.   It has been an endless source of 
amusement for me, and not particularly funny to anyone else.

Arnis got me at the last MUM.   He saw my business name (Vistabeam) and 
started laughing at me.   I asked him what was so funny.   He said that 
"Vista" means chicken in Latvian.   So the Latvian version of my 
business name is "Chicken Wireless".Of course, this turned out to be 
total BS, but I didn't get it figured out until a week later when I went 
online and figured out that the Latvian word for chicken is "calis".

Well played Arnis.




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Re: [WISPA] You're going to love this... New IRS rules

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Please do quit, Mark.

- Original Message - 
From: "MDK" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:40 PM
Subject: [WISPA] You're going to love this... New IRS rules


> http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/04/26/costly-irs-mandate-slipped-into-health-bill/
>
> It requires 1099's for EVERY entity you do more than $600 business with a
> year.
>
> Gas station.  Walmart, your landlord, a $700 used car or truck.Ebay
> purchases, ALL require 1099's now if you go over $600 a year.
>
> That's almost enough for me to throw up my hands and say "I quit".
>
> Frankly, we should all just quit.   For a week.   Or a month.Call up 
> the
> White House and say "you want it so bad, well now you got it, we quit".
> When about 50 million of us do that, perhaps the administration will 
> realize
> it should consult someone besides insane marxists as it concerns business
> and economics.
>
>
>
>
> ++
> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
> ++
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and when 
the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, like 
64k.  Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and check 
their usage any time they want.  Also, they can set up daily emails from 
their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly 
usage.  We have about 20 customers that do this.

Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not 
100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and tracking 
has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them 
appropriately.  Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional revenue 
as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly limits.

Business clients, at this time, are handled differently.  We don't currently 
have bandwidth limits on them.  May in the future.  Generally, though... 
abusers are home users.

Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very much.  We 
have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds.

I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds should 
be from our network engineer this morning.  This is his response.  In 
looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, not $200. 
The $200 per megabit figure comes in with the cost of doing business 
(personnel, backhauls, maintenance, etc, and is an estimate of actual cost 
on what it takes to DELIVER bandwidth to a customer, not just PAY for 
bandwidth ourselves).

Justin's response:
**
If you remember, the way I did it was this. I asked you to come up with
a raw figure, in dollars/month, that our bandwidth costs us - i.e. the
price point at which you could sell bandwidth wholesale and guarantee
that we would still make a profit, even if it was fully saturated 24
hours a day (excluding factors such as backhaul saturation). You gave me
a figure of about $200 per megabit.

I fully doubled that to $400 per megabit, and started from there. I took
the amount of maximum theoretical bandwidth a 1.5Mb customer could
consume in a given month, if they were somehow able to use it for 24
hours straight.  I did the same for our base rate of 1Mbp/s @ $400. I
then compared the "difference" in value, and chose a MB figure that was
at about 50% of what our actual "cost" would be as the maximum amount of
bandwidth allowed.

Example. A "$400/m" 1Mbps customer "resold" could theoretically consume
10.8GB/day or about 330GB/month
A $49/m 1.5Mbps customer could theoretically consume 16.2GB/day or
494GB/month

I then determined what the equivalent maximum amount of bandwidth we
would be reselling a normal customer to if they were paying only $49 per
month, which is a lot easier - you just take our profit figure of $400/m
and divide it by $49 to get roughly 4, so 1/4th of 1.5Mbps which is just
about 384kbps. Then I determined what is the maximum amount of bandwidth
a 384kbps customer could consume.  You get about 1.44Gb per day, or
about 44GB/month.

I knocked off a further 10% to give us a nice round ceiling, producing a
final figure of 40GB/month for a 1.5Mbps customer as the maximum
bandwidth they could be allowed to consume before they started hitting
the falling point of the curve for bandwidth cost. Because I initially
doubled our $200 cost to say that bandwidth, per megabit, costs us
$400/m, we're comfortably padded.
**

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Gerstenberger" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:06 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties


> We have about 15% of our existing subscribers running PPPoE through 
> Mikrotik now, using the User Manager package. I'm astounded by the usage 
> I'm seeing from some accounts. We do cite "acceptable use" in our terms of 
> service, but we've rarely enforced it. I'm curious what approach other 
> WISPs take: how you determine your own acceptable use thresholds and what 
> penalties or deterrents are used.
>
> -Paul
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Didn't forget those.  Man do I know about those costs...  I don't sign the 
checks anymore as I've delegated that, but I know they're there.

Just didn't say them.

We have about a $10-$12k cost per month for growth (dedicated installers, 
trucks, fuel, sales commissions, marketing, new equipment, expansion sites, 
etc).  If we stopped growing, I could literally pocket 63% this money today 
(estimated tax payments).  But we are growing, so it costs...but I've 
"sectioned" those costs away as "growth" costs.

Everything else...every other expense...monthly & annual...from "building 
rent" to "replacing the microwave in the kitchen when it goes bad" gets 
packaged into the "cost to deliver bandwidth" category.

- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties


> You forgot some things in your number crunching Matt.
>
> Insurance.
>
> Electricity.
>
> Labor.
>
> Head end hardware.
>
> etc. etc. etc.
>
> You have to run the calcs on how much you can give your customer based on
> the ENTIRE cost per customer.  Not just the cost per gig.
>
> Out here each customer costs us about $10 in office overhead, $10 in
> infrastructure and $10 in upstream/server costs.  I keep about $5 per sub,
> maybe a bit more these days, we've about doubled since I ran those 
> numbers.
>
> So you can REALLY only "afford" to give the customer $5 to $10 more than 
> the
> average user or else you are actually loosing money, overall, on the sub.
>
> That make sense?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mark Nash - Lists" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
>
>
>> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and 
>> when
>> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, like
>> 64k.  Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and
>> check
>> their usage any time they want.  Also, they can set up daily emails from
>> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly
>> usage.  We have about 20 customers that do this.
>>
>> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not
>> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and tracking
>> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them
>> appropriately.  Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional
>> revenue
>> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly limits.
>>
>> Business clients, at this time, are handled differently.  We don't
>> currently
>> have bandwidth limits on them.  May in the future.  Generally, though...
>> abusers are home users.
>>
>> Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very much.
>> We
>> have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds.
>>
>> I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds 
>> should
>> be from our network engineer this morning.  This is his response.  In
>> looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, not
>> $200.
>> The $200 per megabit figure comes in with the cost of doing business
>> (personnel, backhauls, maintenance, etc, and is an estimate of actual 
>> cost
>> on what it takes to DELIVER bandwidth to a customer, not just PAY for
>> bandwidth ourselves).
>>
>> Justin's response:
>> **
>> If you remember, the way I did it was this. I asked you to come up with
>> a raw figure, in dollars/month, that our bandwidth costs us - i.e. the
>> price point at which you could sell bandwidth wholesale and guarantee
>> that we would still make a profit, even if it was fully saturated 24
>> hours a day (excluding factors such as backhaul saturation). You gave me
>> a figure of about $200 per megabit.
>>
>> I fully doubled that to $400 per megabit, and started from there. I took
>> the amount of maximum theoretical bandwidth a 1.5Mb customer could
>> consume in a given month, if they were somehow able to use it for 24
>> hours straight.  I did the same for our base rate of 1Mbp/s @ $400. I
>> then compared the "difference" in value, and chose a MB figure that was
>> at about 50% of what our actual "cost" would be as the maximum amount of
>> bandwidth allowed.
>>
>> Example. A &

Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Just downloaded the usage report into Excel...

About 1/3 of our users go 5gigs & above.  It goes sharply up after that. 
The Powercode report shows upload usage, download usage, total usage, and 
upload-to-download ratio.  You can usually catch the virus users or p2p-ers 
by checking the upload-to-download ratio.

We sell 1 to 3 meg burstable connections as our primary product, both 
business and residential versions (higher price, priority support, etc)

Beyond 3 megs, everything is custom and is generally $100/meg burstable, 
$200/meg dedicated.  This pricing allows us to account for those really 
high-end need users who need the bandwidth and can't accept being limited.

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Gerstenberger" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties


> This isn't totally accurate as it's a monthly report and some users have 
> been converted mid-month, but the average download I'm seeing is 5.7Gb. 
> Our heaviest user did 105GB, and one recent conversion is on track to hit 
> 200GB if the last weeks trend continues! About two thirds exceeded 10GB.
>
> I think most of those > 10GB are running netflix.
>
> -Paul
>
> On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>
>> Our average customer does about 4 gigs per month.  That's average, 
>> including
>> servers and high end business customers.  Someday I'll count the 
>> businesses
>> different from the residential :-).
>>
>> We give 10 gigs per month and charge $5 per gig for overages.
>>
>> We've lost a few customers due to this, but nearly all of them want to 
>> run
>> file sharing servers and/or run netflix.  In short, the ones we're 
>> loosing
>> cost more than they are paying us.
>>
>> The good news is that the other 95% of the customer base get GREAT 
>> service
>> at a reasonable price and are very happy.
>>
>> We also catch a LOT of infected machines or open wifi routers this way.
>> Most customers appreciate that we're watching out for them.
>>
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Paul Gerstenberger" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:06 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
>>
>>
>>> We have about 15% of our existing subscribers running PPPoE through
>>> Mikrotik now, using the User Manager package. I'm astounded by the usage
>>> I'm seeing from some accounts. We do cite "acceptable use" in our terms 
>>> of
>>> service, but we've rarely enforced it. I'm curious what approach other
>>> WISPs take: how you determine your own acceptable use thresholds and 
>>> what
>>> penalties or deterrents are used.
>>>
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

It's been love-hate.

We've actually been using it since January 2008, for billing and scheduling, 
tracking leads, etc.  We purchased the Imagestream Rebel router to work as 
the Bandwidth Manager Unit (BMU) later that year, but never put it into 
place.  This was primarily because we didn't trust Powercode tech support to 
help us when we had a problem with it.

Things were dicey & sketchy with Powercode for awhile.  We think the tide 
has turned with the company, being bought out by Bertram Wireless.  We like 
better what's going on with them now, and we have upgraded to their version 
9 with a substantial increase in monthly cost.  We did this because we 
wanted the bandwidth management integrated with our billing platform, so 
that a low-cost customer service agent could pretty much help a customer 
with whatever their needs were.  We felt that it was time to "make or break" 
with Powercode, or switch to another platform (painful but maybe necessary).

Powercode, the company, has been working well with us to resolve our 
problems.  They seem to care about having our business more than they used 
to, as they are responding to us and addressing our concerns.  In fact, the 
other day, I requested a new feature...seemed like a simple one but most 
times feature requests fall on deaf ears. Powercode has built-in 
troubleshooting utilities like ping-flood (web-interfaced billing server 
initiates the command and the BMU runs it and reports back the results to 
the billing server then back to your web browser).  Well, I wanted those 
results to be logged in the customer account (PC has EXTENSIVE logging).  A 
week later, that feature was released on an update.  Now, whenever any 
customer service agent runs a troubleshooting utility in Powercode, it is 
logged on the customer account and stored forever.  So, we immediately began 
having our installers running their tests from within Powercode before they 
leave the install.  Now we have 3 tests logged for initial performance of 
the connection.  Anyway... pretty good turn-around on my request.

I was at a turning point a few months ago, sending out an email to everyone 
to begin searching for a new OSS because we weren't 100% on our features. 
Being 100% on features, I felt, will save us about .5 FTE.  If we aren't 
there, and are paying the high price of v9 Powercode...not worth it.

They're working with us and I hope to be 100% in a week or so.  Their new 
pricing has good economy of scale, too...affordable from day one...expensive 
in numbers but advanced features will save you people time at this point.

All-in-all, still I think it has been a positive adventure with Powercode. 
I'm glad the product has a better managed company behind it now.


- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Dueck" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties


> How is your experience with Powercode?  I once considered putting in
> Powercode, but it looked to be a little used product, so decided against 
> it.
>
> On 04/30/2010 10:24 AM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote:
>> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and 
>> when
>> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, like
>> 64k.  Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and 
>> check
>> their usage any time they want.  Also, they can set up daily emails from
>> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly
>> usage.  We have about 20 customers that do this.
>>
>> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not
>> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and tracking
>> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them
>> appropriately.  Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional 
>> revenue
>> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly limits.
>>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

I just realized that I may have left the impression that we never 
implemented the BMU (though you COULD have figured it out in the details of 
my previous post).

In fact, we ARE now using the Powercode BMU, and it's working well.  For our 
concerns about all of our traffic going through it, we inserted a 
work-around that would let us bypass the BMU (route around it) if it became 
problematic, or if we need to reboot it/maintain it.  It is the part that is 
not 100% right now.  It doesn't fully support remote subnets, like if we 
have a customer who has a /29 or whatever subnet on the LAN side of their 
CPE.  They technically have more than 1 IP to track for OVERALL bandwidth 
usage.  It doesn't fully support this with reporting and bandwidth limiting. 
Most of our customers have only 1 IP address, though, so it's not a large 
problem.  However, the problem tends to be with larger clients.  We have a 
non-Powercode solution in place as a stop-gap measure right now, until the 
problem is fixed.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Nash - Lists" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 1:28 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties


> It's been love-hate.
>
> We've actually been using it since January 2008, for billing and 
> scheduling,
> tracking leads, etc.  We purchased the Imagestream Rebel router to work as
> the Bandwidth Manager Unit (BMU) later that year, but never put it into
> place.  This was primarily because we didn't trust Powercode tech support 
> to
> help us when we had a problem with it.
>
> Things were dicey & sketchy with Powercode for awhile.  We think the tide
> has turned with the company, being bought out by Bertram Wireless.  We 
> like
> better what's going on with them now, and we have upgraded to their 
> version
> 9 with a substantial increase in monthly cost.  We did this because we
> wanted the bandwidth management integrated with our billing platform, so
> that a low-cost customer service agent could pretty much help a customer
> with whatever their needs were.  We felt that it was time to "make or 
> break"
> with Powercode, or switch to another platform (painful but maybe 
> necessary).
>
> Powercode, the company, has been working well with us to resolve our
> problems.  They seem to care about having our business more than they used
> to, as they are responding to us and addressing our concerns.  In fact, 
> the
> other day, I requested a new feature...seemed like a simple one but most
> times feature requests fall on deaf ears. Powercode has built-in
> troubleshooting utilities like ping-flood (web-interfaced billing server
> initiates the command and the BMU runs it and reports back the results to
> the billing server then back to your web browser).  Well, I wanted those
> results to be logged in the customer account (PC has EXTENSIVE logging). 
> A
> week later, that feature was released on an update.  Now, whenever any
> customer service agent runs a troubleshooting utility in Powercode, it is
> logged on the customer account and stored forever.  So, we immediately 
> began
> having our installers running their tests from within Powercode before 
> they
> leave the install.  Now we have 3 tests logged for initial performance of
> the connection.  Anyway... pretty good turn-around on my request.
>
> I was at a turning point a few months ago, sending out an email to 
> everyone
> to begin searching for a new OSS because we weren't 100% on our features.
> Being 100% on features, I felt, will save us about .5 FTE.  If we aren't
> there, and are paying the high price of v9 Powercode...not worth it.
>
> They're working with us and I hope to be 100% in a week or so.  Their new
> pricing has good economy of scale, too...affordable from day 
> one...expensive
> in numbers but advanced features will save you people time at this point.
>
> All-in-all, still I think it has been a positive adventure with Powercode.
> I'm glad the product has a better managed company behind it now.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mark Dueck" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
>
>
>> How is your experience with Powercode?  I once considered putting in
>> Powercode, but it looked to be a little used product, so decided against
>> it.
>>
>> On 04/30/2010 10:24 AM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote:
>>> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and
>>> when
>>> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, 
>>> like
>>> 64k.  Powercode has a Customer Portal feature 

Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Hey, I'm not using email integration.

How's that working for you (the "changepassword on log in to new Gmail 
accounts" issue aside)?

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties


I agree it's overall positive but for the life of me I can't get them
to add changepassword on log in to new Gmail accounts.

Such a tiny thing and I keep mentioning it, but it's the "I'll have to
ask __" who has to ask someone else.

On 4/30/10, Mark Nash - Lists  wrote:
> It's been love-hate.
>
> We've actually been using it since January 2008, for billing and 
> scheduling,
> tracking leads, etc.  We purchased the Imagestream Rebel router to work as
> the Bandwidth Manager Unit (BMU) later that year, but never put it into
> place.  This was primarily because we didn't trust Powercode tech support 
> to
> help us when we had a problem with it.
>
> Things were dicey & sketchy with Powercode for awhile.  We think the tide
> has turned with the company, being bought out by Bertram Wireless.  We 
> like
> better what's going on with them now, and we have upgraded to their 
> version
> 9 with a substantial increase in monthly cost.  We did this because we
> wanted the bandwidth management integrated with our billing platform, so
> that a low-cost customer service agent could pretty much help a customer
> with whatever their needs were.  We felt that it was time to "make or 
> break"
> with Powercode, or switch to another platform (painful but maybe 
> necessary).
>
> Powercode, the company, has been working well with us to resolve our
> problems.  They seem to care about having our business more than they used
> to, as they are responding to us and addressing our concerns.  In fact, 
> the
> other day, I requested a new feature...seemed like a simple one but most
> times feature requests fall on deaf ears. Powercode has built-in
> troubleshooting utilities like ping-flood (web-interfaced billing server
> initiates the command and the BMU runs it and reports back the results to
> the billing server then back to your web browser).  Well, I wanted those
> results to be logged in the customer account (PC has EXTENSIVE logging). 
> A
> week later, that feature was released on an update.  Now, whenever any
> customer service agent runs a troubleshooting utility in Powercode, it is
> logged on the customer account and stored forever.  So, we immediately 
> began
> having our installers running their tests from within Powercode before 
> they
> leave the install.  Now we have 3 tests logged for initial performance of
> the connection.  Anyway... pretty good turn-around on my request.
>
> I was at a turning point a few months ago, sending out an email to 
> everyone
> to begin searching for a new OSS because we weren't 100% on our features.
> Being 100% on features, I felt, will save us about .5 FTE.  If we aren't
> there, and are paying the high price of v9 Powercode...not worth it.
>
> They're working with us and I hope to be 100% in a week or so.  Their new
> pricing has good economy of scale, too...affordable from day 
> one...expensive
> in numbers but advanced features will save you people time at this point.
>
> All-in-all, still I think it has been a positive adventure with Powercode.
> I'm glad the product has a better managed company behind it now.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mark Dueck" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
>
>
>> How is your experience with Powercode?  I once considered putting in
>> Powercode, but it looked to be a little used product, so decided against
>> it.
>>
>> On 04/30/2010 10:24 AM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote:
>>> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and
>>> when
>>> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, 
>>> like
>>> 64k.  Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and
>>> check
>>> their usage any time they want.  Also, they can set up daily emails from
>>> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly
>>> usage.  We have about 20 customers that do this.
>>>
>>> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not
>>> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and 
>>> tracking
>>> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them
&

Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

Does it actually count up the number of email addresses you have and put 
those on a billing line item, or account for them as part of a package?

For instance... Customer is given 5 email addresses as a monthly service 
within their package called "Wireless Internet Service".  Then we sell them 
10 more "Email accounts" for a total of 15... Does Powercode bill from those 
email addresses?  Are the actual email addresses tied to the "Package" or 
"Monthly Service"?  Or are they just managed?

Do my questions make sense to you?

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties


That one VERY SMALL and ANNOYING bit...perfect.

Email address is managed inside an account so you know who's it is
(you can look an account up by it for example).  Simply fill out the
form and his submit.  You can change their password for them if they
forget it, too.

On 4/30/10, Mark Nash - Lists  wrote:
> Hey, I'm not using email integration.
>
> How's that working for you (the "changepassword on log in to new Gmail
> accounts" issue aside)?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties
>
>
> I agree it's overall positive but for the life of me I can't get them
> to add changepassword on log in to new Gmail accounts.
>
> Such a tiny thing and I keep mentioning it, but it's the "I'll have to
> ask __" who has to ask someone else.
>
> On 4/30/10, Mark Nash - Lists  wrote:
>> It's been love-hate.
>>
>> We've actually been using it since January 2008, for billing and
>> scheduling,
>> tracking leads, etc.  We purchased the Imagestream Rebel router to work 
>> as
>> the Bandwidth Manager Unit (BMU) later that year, but never put it into
>> place.  This was primarily because we didn't trust Powercode tech support
>> to
>> help us when we had a problem with it.
>>
>> Things were dicey & sketchy with Powercode for awhile.  We think the tide
>> has turned with the company, being bought out by Bertram Wireless.  We
>> like
>> better what's going on with them now, and we have upgraded to their
>> version
>> 9 with a substantial increase in monthly cost.  We did this because we
>> wanted the bandwidth management integrated with our billing platform, so
>> that a low-cost customer service agent could pretty much help a customer
>> with whatever their needs were.  We felt that it was time to "make or
>> break"
>> with Powercode, or switch to another platform (painful but maybe
>> necessary).
>>
>> Powercode, the company, has been working well with us to resolve our
>> problems.  They seem to care about having our business more than they 
>> used
>> to, as they are responding to us and addressing our concerns.  In fact,
>> the
>> other day, I requested a new feature...seemed like a simple one but most
>> times feature requests fall on deaf ears. Powercode has built-in
>> troubleshooting utilities like ping-flood (web-interfaced billing server
>> initiates the command and the BMU runs it and reports back the results to
>> the billing server then back to your web browser).  Well, I wanted those
>> results to be logged in the customer account (PC has EXTENSIVE logging).
>> A
>> week later, that feature was released on an update.  Now, whenever any
>> customer service agent runs a troubleshooting utility in Powercode, it is
>> logged on the customer account and stored forever.  So, we immediately
>> began
>> having our installers running their tests from within Powercode before
>> they
>> leave the install.  Now we have 3 tests logged for initial performance of
>> the connection.  Anyway... pretty good turn-around on my request.
>>
>> I was at a turning point a few months ago, sending out an email to
>> everyone
>> to begin searching for a new OSS because we weren't 100% on our features.
>> Being 100% on features, I felt, will save us about .5 FTE.  If we aren't
>> there, and are paying the high price of v9 Powercode...not worth it.
>>
>> They're working with us and I hope to be 100% in a week or so.  Their new
>> pricing has good economy of scale, too...affordable from day
>> one...expensive
>> in numbers but advanced features will save you people time at this point.
>>
>> All-in-all, sti

Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

OK, but at least, if the account was actually CREATED in Powercode, it is 
accounted for in the billing program and cleaned up (removed) when the 
account is set to "Not Active"?

That's a huge step in the right direction for cleaning up email accounts.

Since there's no cross-reference now, I have no way of knowing who owns 
hundreds of our email addresses.  You get people putting in email accounts 
without a first & last name that identifies the Powercode customer, and 
email addresses like just2d...@whatever.com.

Currently, I just have a policy of removing accounts that have not been 
accessed in any way within the last 6 months (deleted about 120 the other 
day).  We pay 3rd party host for email, and we give some away and take in 
about $1k/mo for hosted email.  So cleaning up unused accounts for our 
"provided-free" domains saves us $$.

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties


I see what you're getting at.  I don't think the two tie together but
I've not looked at it that way.  I made sure the account existed,
that's all.   We don't chargew for email.

On 4/30/10, Mark Nash - Lists  wrote:
> Does it actually count up the number of email addresses you have and put
> those on a billing line item, or account for them as part of a package?
>
> For instance... Customer is given 5 email addresses as a monthly service
> within their package called "Wireless Internet Service".  Then we sell 
> them
> 10 more "Email accounts" for a total of 15... Does Powercode bill from 
> those
> email addresses?  Are the actual email addresses tied to the "Package" or
> "Monthly Service"?  Or are they just managed?
>
> Do my questions make sense to you?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties
>
>
> That one VERY SMALL and ANNOYING bit...perfect.
>
> Email address is managed inside an account so you know who's it is
> (you can look an account up by it for example).  Simply fill out the
> form and his submit.  You can change their password for them if they
> forget it, too.
>
> On 4/30/10, Mark Nash - Lists  wrote:
>> Hey, I'm not using email integration.
>>
>> How's that working for you (the "changepassword on log in to new Gmail
>> accounts" issue aside)?
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties
>>
>>
>> I agree it's overall positive but for the life of me I can't get them
>> to add changepassword on log in to new Gmail accounts.
>>
>> Such a tiny thing and I keep mentioning it, but it's the "I'll have to
>> ask __" who has to ask someone else.
>>
>> On 4/30/10, Mark Nash - Lists  wrote:
>>> It's been love-hate.
>>>
>>> We've actually been using it since January 2008, for billing and
>>> scheduling,
>>> tracking leads, etc.  We purchased the Imagestream Rebel router to work
>>> as
>>> the Bandwidth Manager Unit (BMU) later that year, but never put it into
>>> place.  This was primarily because we didn't trust Powercode tech 
>>> support
>>> to
>>> help us when we had a problem with it.
>>>
>>> Things were dicey & sketchy with Powercode for awhile.  We think the 
>>> tide
>>> has turned with the company, being bought out by Bertram Wireless.  We
>>> like
>>> better what's going on with them now, and we have upgraded to their
>>> version
>>> 9 with a substantial increase in monthly cost.  We did this because we
>>> wanted the bandwidth management integrated with our billing platform, so
>>> that a low-cost customer service agent could pretty much help a customer
>>> with whatever their needs were.  We felt that it was time to "make or
>>> break"
>>> with Powercode, or switch to another platform (painful but maybe
>>> necessary).
>>>
>>> Powercode, the company, has been working well with us to resolve our
>>> problems.  They seem to care about having our business more than they
>>> used
>>> to, as they are responding to us and addressing our concerns.  In fact,

Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties

[Mark Nash - Lists]

One thing that is saving us alot of time is dealing with delinquent 
accounts.

Used to take about a couple hours each month to actually shut off CPEs for 
non-payment.  Then each would have to call in, arrange for payment or make a 
credit card payment over the phone, bitch at the agent on the phone, etc.

Now, with the combination of the Billing Server/BMU/Customer Portal, that 
activity has dropped to next-to-nothing.  BMU redirects the "Delinquent" 
user's browser to a "delinquent" page and offers to connect them to the 
Customer Portal on the billing server.  Customers can now re-activate 
themselves with their credit card, and don't have to go through the 
embarrassment of talking with someone at our office, and we don't have to 
deal with them either.  And to boot, Powercode v9 now can automatically 
charge a "Reconnect Fee" to turn service back on.

With shutoffs happening more rapidly and automatically, people are getting 
used to it and paying us more regularly.  The usual suspects that seem to 
always be late are learning, too.  It used to be that we could turn them 
back on until their "check came in the mail".  Now we say, "I'm sorry, the 
system won't let you back on until I clear the late portion of the account". 
That's kinda true, too, because you can manually change the customer's 
status from "Delinquent" to "Active", and it will let them back on.  Until 
3am the next morning when the routine hits again to change the account BACK 
to "Delinquent".  Poof!

This "having to deal MORE with the people who AREN'T paying on time" used to 
really irk me.  Now, with this system in place, I make about $250/mo from 
reconnect fees.  Hardly have to deal with them at all, and money is coming 
in much more efficiently.

BTW... Higher-end business clients have a HUGE grace period before they turn 
to "Delinquent".  Didn't want those guys getting shut off just because the 
A/P clerk took a few days off and got behind on paying the bill!


- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties


Not sure if it deletes the account.  I doubt it and hope it doesn't, though.

On 4/30/10, Mark Nash - Lists  wrote:
> OK, but at least, if the account was actually CREATED in Powercode, it is
> accounted for in the billing program and cleaned up (removed) when the
> account is set to "Not Active"?
>
> That's a huge step in the right direction for cleaning up email accounts.
>
> Since there's no cross-reference now, I have no way of knowing who owns
> hundreds of our email addresses.  You get people putting in email accounts
> without a first & last name that identifies the Powercode customer, and
> email addresses like just2d...@whatever.com.
>
> Currently, I just have a policy of removing accounts that have not been
> accessed in any way within the last 6 months (deleted about 120 the other
> day).  We pay 3rd party host for email, and we give some away and take in
> about $1k/mo for hosted email.  So cleaning up unused accounts for our
> "provided-free" domains saves us $$.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties
>
>
> I see what you're getting at.  I don't think the two tie together but
> I've not looked at it that way.  I made sure the account existed,
> that's all.   We don't chargew for email.
>
> On 4/30/10, Mark Nash - Lists  wrote:
>> Does it actually count up the number of email addresses you have and put
>> those on a billing line item, or account for them as part of a package?
>>
>> For instance... Customer is given 5 email addresses as a monthly service
>> within their package called "Wireless Internet Service".  Then we sell
>> them
>> 10 more "Email accounts" for a total of 15... Does Powercode bill from
>> those
>> email addresses?  Are the actual email addresses tied to the "Package" or
>> "Monthly Service"?  Or are they just managed?
>>
>> Do my questions make sense to you?
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Powercode WAS: Overage thresholds and penalties
>>
>>
>> That one VERY SMALL and ANNOYING bit...perfect.
>>
>> Email address is managed inside an account so you know wh