Witango-Talk: OT - .NET Developers needed

[Scott Cadillac]

Out of respect for the group, I wouldn't normally post this question here - but 
I'm running short on my usual resources, so I hope nobody minds.

For the past four years I've been working full-time on a single 
contract/project for one big international client, which is of course an 
awesome predicament for a contract programmer. I am now on the verge of another 
big project for the same client, and we are in need of additional senior and/or 
junior .NET web developers.

I will be the lead developer, and the work will involve heavy use of T-SQL 
(2008), Visual Studio 2010 (C# or VB.NET), Ajax concepts and lots of 
JavaScript. Familiarity with JQuery and MVC applications and SVN are also 
helpful, as well as how to work over VPN.

If you're unfamiliar with who I am, well, there's not much I can do about that 
- but try searching the archives 
http://www.mail-archive.com/witango-talk@witango.com/

This will be a large and complex internal business critical application for 
over 10,000 employees in all timezones (not public facing), which will be 
deployed to a load-balanced web-farm environment hosted by a major IT provider.

Although the company would prefer to hire from in-house, the right candidate(s) 
will get a great opportunity and fair contract rates with potentially very 
long-term work. Given that this is a global company, being in close proximity 
to me (Nova Scotia) or one of their offices could be an important factor in 
their decisions. The MIS group that I work for this company is mostly spread 
over the western hemisphere, Central and Eastern United States, Western, 
Central and Eastern Canada, UK, Germany, France, Romania and South Africa - so 
don't be shy if you're not right in New York or Paris.

Note, occasional travel may be required.

If anyone is interested, please forward a condensed curriculum vitae (or 
equivalent) to sc...@xmlx.net

Thank you for your time.

Scott Cadillac














To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to lists...@witango.com 
with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.

RE: Witango-Talk: [Off] SQL Query

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Dan,

By combining these columns, do you mean mathematically or as a string?

If a string, maybe try something like:

SET monthYear = CAST([month] as varchar) + CAST([year] as varchar)

Without the casting, your previous statement would try to perform some math if 
one or both columns are numbers.

I hope that helps.

Scott,


On Friday, January 7, 2011 8:08am, "Dan Stein"  said:

> I have a MS SQL table that has about 2M records in it. I had to add a field 
> that
> is actually a combination of the month and year to it for some reports I am
> running. Foolishly I named columns month, year, day in this table so I think 
> it
> is a problem with trying to write a query that takes the month value and 
> combines
> it with the year value to give me month year.
>
> I tried writing something like
>
> Update tableA
>
> Set monthYear= [TableA].[month] + [TableA].[year]
> where mothYear is null
>
> All it does it set it to the year value.
>
>
> --
> Dan Stein MSN CPNP
> FileMaker 7 Certified Developer
> FileMaker 9 Certified Developer
> Digital Software Solutions
> 303 W. Chestnut St
> Souderton PA 18964
> Land: 215-799-0192
> Cell: 610-256-2843
> Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st)
> FMP, WiTango,MSSQL, MySQL,PHP
> d...@dss-db.com
> www.dss-db.com
>
>
> "It's very hard to grow, because it's difficult to let go of models of
> ourselves in which we've invested so heavily."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to lists...@witango.com 
> with
> "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.
>
>




To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to lists...@witango.com 
with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.

Witango-Talk: Happy New Year!

[Scott Cadillac]

[http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/01/three-reasons-creators-should-never.html]
 http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/01/three-reasons-creators-should-never.html

For what it's worth.

All the best!

Scott,




To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to lists...@witango.com 
with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.

Re: Witango-Talk: What's in a name?

[Scott Cadillac]

At the risk of having history repeat itself, by voting spontaneously on 
business decisions that are completely in the hands of Robert Shubert (and 
getting everyone into a sour mode in the process).

How about we not start asking for things that have absolutely no bearing on 
whether you'll stay a Tango/Witango programmer or not. I mean after all, if 
you're still here after all the sh*t that's gone on (and not gone on), what 
makes you folks think that changing the name will make any difference now?

If Robert felt strongly enough about a name change after such an ambitious 
business move, he would have done it by now. I'm sure it's occurred to him.

Please leave Robert some sense of accomplishment after putting his neck out on 
the line, before you start striping away at his ability to control the product 
he owns.

Think about it. He's gone public with the purchase and a new business plan - 
changing the name now would kill any and all momentum built thus far.

Have a nice day now.

Scott,






On 2010-10-20, at 10:19 AM, Rich wrote:

> I agree, time to leave the bad taste in everyone's mouth Witango. A relaunch 
> with the Tango is a great idea.
> Rich
>
> From: Steve Smith [mailto:ssm...@oakbridge.ca]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:35 AM
> To: Witango-Talk@witango.com
> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: What's in a name?
>
> I second the idea of a name change and agree that I'd like to see the 
> product's name return to Tango.
>
> Perhaps I'm biased because I was a employee of EveryWare and Pervasive, 
> (1995-2000 and I go back to version 1.0 of Tango) but I still refer to it 
> today as Tango whenever it comes up in conversation. Tango rolls off the 
> tongue, Witango never did.
>
> And it was never as easy to explain what a .taf or .tcf file was after the 
> name change. For those that aren't aware of the origins, .taf is Tango 
> Application File and .tcf is Tango Class File.
>
> Steve Smith
>
> Oakbridge Information Solutions
> Oakville Office: (416) 628-0793
> Cambridge Office:   (519) 489-0142
> Email:  ssm...@oakbridge.ca
> Web: www.oakbridge.ca
>
> Certified DayLite Master Partner
> Certified DayLite Trainer
> Billings Consultant
> FileMaker Business Alliance Member
> MoneyWorks Consultant
> LightSpeed Authorized Reseller
>
> On 2010-10-20, at 5:14 AM, Wayne Irvine wrote:
>
>> A rose would smell as sweet, yadda yadda.
>>
>> Just wondering about the name 'Witango'. I knew the product when it was 
>> called Tango, which had a nice ring to it and brought about images of 
>> serious gentlemen and ravishing ladies entwined in something that was midway 
>> between a  dance and a domestic.
>>
>> I believe the name change was force on 'With Imagination' (there's a clue to 
>> where the WI came from) when they negotiated rights to the product from 
>> Everywhere (IIRC). I wonder if this requirement is still valid?
>>
>> I for one would love a return to the old name now that With Imagination (who 
>> proved to be 'without' at least as far as Tango went) are no longer part of 
>> the equation.
>>
>> Might also make the logo design a bit simpler.
>>
>> Wayne irvine
>>
>> 
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to lists...@witango.com 
>> with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.
>>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to lists...@witango.com 
> with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to lists...@witango.com 
> with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.





To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to lists...@witango.com 
with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.

Re: Witango-Talk: Announcement - Witango under new ownership

[Scott Cadillac]

Congratulations Robert,

If the system is being acquired by a List member, it's great to see it go to 
someone with a level head, and a person with some prior exposure to the 
headaches they are inheriting. Robert, you must have some serious cojones.

And thank you Phil and Shopie for spending so much time and energy on what must 
have been a very painful wringer-washer experience.

The best of luck Robert.

Sincerely,

Scott Cadillac










On Aug 2, 2010, at 3:43 PM, supp...@witango.com wrote:

>
> To the Witango community:
>
> Tronics Software LLC has purchased the Witango product suite from Witango 
> Technologies Pty Ltd.  We at Tronics Software are extremely excited to launch 
> this new chapter for Witango, and we are dedicated to the ongoing support and 
> development of the Witango products.
>
> Over the next few days and weeks we will be releasing further information 
> about our plans for Witango, the timing of the version 6.0 release, and 
> pricing details.  We are also committed to supporting and expanding the 
> Witango community, and we will be launching community forums and a 
> development blog shortly.
>
> We will post all announcements to the list and to the witango.com website - 
> please check back often!
>
> Thank you all for your continued support of Witango,
>
> Tronics Software LLC
>
>
>
> Tronics Software LLC is a software development company in New Jersey, part of 
> the Tronics group of companies founded by Robert Shubert.  Robert has been a 
> part of the Witango community since 1998 and owns Tronics, the leading 
> Witango web hosting provider.  To contact Tronics Software with questions, 
> please email supp...@witango.com or call (570) 647-4370.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to mails...@witango.com 
> with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.





To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to mails...@witango.com 
with "unsubscribe witango-talk" in the body.

Re: Witango-Talk: Virtual witango?

[Scott Cadillac]

VMWare also has a feature to import an existing physical machine to create a 
virtual machine, which is a serious time saver (no rebuilding involved) - but 
I'm not 100% sure it supports the source machine being Linux. Could be worth 
checking out though.
 
Hope that helps.

Scott,
 


On Friday, November 27, 2009 4:35pm, "Robert Garcia"  said:

> Yes. We still have a few sites on witango and we host them on VMs on
> VMWare Server 2.01. I am also in the process of moving this into the
> Amazon EC2 cloud.
> 
> --
> 
> Robert Garcia
> President - BigHead Technology
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 13653 West Park Dr
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> On Nov 27, 2009, at 12:19 PM, William Conlon wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It's been a long time. I have some old applications still running
> > on Fedroa Core 4 w/ apache2 witango, and quite a few more running
> > apache2/perl.
> >
> > I recently had a hardware failure (fortunately the RAID array was
> > intact) that required me to rebuild the system. I'm now thinking
> > about moving this all over to a virtual machine running on new
> > hardware (I'm thinking a MacMini server). These don't get a lot of
> > activity, so I'm not too concerned about performance.
> >
> > Anyone have any experience migrating a witango server to a VMWARE or
> > PARALLELS VM?
> >
> > bill
> > 
> > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> >
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: Help Witango Josso (accessing HT TPRequest)

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Francesca,
 
You may have some challanges ahead of you, depending on what version of Witango you have.
 
The Request.ServerVariables() object in ASP/.NET has to do with retreiving HTTP header properties of the user's request to the webserver. In your case, your code is looking for a custom HTTP header property.
 
Unfortunately some versions of Witango have very limited access to the HTTP request header.
 
If you have Witango 5.5 or later, then I think @HTTPATTRIBUTE is what you'll want. But you may not be able to access HTTP_JOSSO_USER directly, so use the NAME="FULL_HEADER" attribute on your metatag (which returns the whole header) and then parse/search for the info you need.
 
I hope that helps.Scott,
 
 
On Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:15am, "Francesca Arecco - Genova"  said:


Hi,I'm trying to use Josso with Witango but I don't know how to get HttpRequest in Witango.Josso is a Single Sign On Authentication Server. It's able to give back user information inside the HttpRequest.The way to get user info from HttpRequest with a JSP is:<%=request.getRemoteUser()%>An example with ASP is:"100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" > Hello, <%=Request.ServerVariables("HTTP_JOSSO_USER") %>!  How can I achieve the same task with Witango?Thanks in advance for your responseFrancesca-- 






Francesca AreccoEngineering Tributi SpADirezione Prodotti e ServiziArea Sviluppo SoftwareVia Renata Bianchi 137 - 16152 Genovatel: +39 (010) 648671 - fax: +39 (010) 6143119e-mail: francesca.are...@eng.it_Gruppo Engineering - www.eng.itSystem Integrator, Outsourcing e Consulenza
TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: autocomplete speed comparison

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Ted,

If you're already using a Direct_DBMS in a TCF, then swap out your TAF  
for a TML file, I think you may see some improvement in speed. TML  
files have a lot less overhead than TAF files do.


Hope that helps.

Scott,





On Oct-6-2009, at 11:54 AM, Ted Wolfley wrote:

Witango speed stayed about the same on repeat queries and the  
datsourcelife is set at the default.
The ajax taf is tiny and using the Direct_DBMS for the query via a  
tcf.  The database connection is opened at login to the site.


I guess we will go with the .NET version until we see what Witango 6  
has to offer.


Thanks

Ted

From: Robert Garcia [mailto:wita...@bighead.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:12 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: autocomplete speed comparison

ODBC and persistent connections would be my guess, as long as ALL  
OTHER variables are equal. Repeat the query a few times, and see if  
it is faster. Witango is most likely using ODBC connector and .NET  
is using a more native, optimized connection. Witango will always  
take longer on its FIRST query to a connection, due to the overhead  
of opening a connection from scratch. Witango will then hold that  
connection in memory and try to reuse it, saving time on subsequent  
queries. This seems efficient, but it actually ends up wasting  
memory on both the witango side and especially the db server side.


Check the documentation on the datasourcelife configuration variable.

--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

On Oct 6, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Ted Wolfley wrote:


Hi,

We created a simple ajax autocomplete retrieving name and company  
from a sql server 2005 table on another server.  We compared 2  
different options.


Both servers are Windows 2003 32-bit

Using Witango 5.5, the query request took 528ms.
Using ASP.Net, the query request took 34 ms

The sql statement is the same for both queries

Wondering if someone could give an explanation why there is so much  
difference in speed and is there a way to speed up the Witango query.


Ted Wolfley
Lead Internet and Database Programmer
The Ogden Group of Rochester
phone: (585) 321 1060 x23
fax: (585) 321 0043
t...@ogdengroup.com

www.ogdengroup.com



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: License Keys

[Scott Cadillac]

Sorry, I forgot to add: apologies to Rick.

Thank you.

Scott,

Sent from my iPod

On 2009-09-22, at 5:32 PM, Scott Cadillac  wrote:

You could be right Stefan, I could have the circumstances backwards  
with regards to how the bitch-fest started.


I defer to your better memory, thank you.

Scott,





On Sep-22-2009, at 5:09 PM, Stefan Gonick wrote:


Hi Scott,

I have been agreeing with everything that you written up until now.  
I take
issue with the final part of your sentence. I do not believe that  
it was the
"bitch-fest" that led Phil to stop answering posts in the first  
place. I think
that it was Phil's lack of communication that started the bitch- 
fest. I

think that you have the order backwards.

Also, the bitch-fest has been quite legitimate and deserving of a  
response.

Owners of a product that cared about the product would have responded
long ago.

I still believe, as I have stated for a long time now, that Phil's  
poor
communication tendencies started the final downfall of this  
product. It was
his poor handling of Robert's announcement of leaving Witango due  
to lack of
documentation that caused the beginning of a mass exodus of the  
product.

This led to a rapid downward spiral... *sigh*  It's a real shame.

Phil has probably moved on to bigger and better things at this  
point. It would
be responsible (and communicative) of Phil to let us know what's  
going on.

That has not been Phil's forte, however. Hence, the bitch-fest.

Stefan

At 04:00 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote:

Some good points Rick,

But I think the number of years Tango has been struggling as a  
product

is just as wide open to personal interpretation as who started the
bitch-fest that led Phil to stop answering Posts in the first place.

Scott,





On Sep-22-2009, at 4:37 PM, Rick Sanders wrote:

I disagree with the first and second paragraphs. When With took  
over

WiTango
they made many promises. They promised continued support, new
versions, a
better distribution infrastructure, more market awareness.
As developers this was good news. As business people we go by what
other
people say and take their word. So, the writing has not been on the
wall for
9 years, but definitely in the last 2.

If the product is in fact dead or dropped, then they should come  
out

and say
so instead of not saying anything at all leaving false hope. At
least tell
people to move on. Although many people were upset when Visual
studio was
first released and VB developers would have to learn new ways of
developing
applications and re-writing applications, at least Microsoft came
out and
told people VB is no longer supported and you have to learn .net.
WiTango
should do the same in my opinion.

No, Phil and Sophie don't need to respond to threats or insults. I
totally
agree. But, maybe they should recognize why they are getting  
threats

and
insults and address the issue of WiTango.


[-- Scott Wrote:
---]

The writing has been on the wall for 9 years - 9 YEARS [one more  
and

it'll
be 10!], so if people feel they have been burned by Phil...
well, that's what happens when you can't stop yourself from  
gambling.

Eventually you lose.

As for who started the unprofessional death-spiral, I think fingers
can be
pointed in a lot of directions that don't necessarily take you  
down- under.


I haven't had personal correspondence with Phil or Sophie in over  
3 or

4 years I think, so I have no idea what they're up to, but I don't
blame
them one bit for not answering the threats or insults that come  
from

some
people on this List.

[-- 
--- 
--- 
---

---]

Rick Sanders
Webenergy
Canada: 902-431-7279
USA:   919-799-9076
Canada: www.webenergy.ca
USA:   www.webenergyusa.com










TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf






TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


=
Database WebWorks: Dynamic web sites through database integration
http://www.DatabaseWebWorks.com






TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf







TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: License Keys

[Scott Cadillac]

You could be right Stefan, I could have the circumstances backwards  
with regards to how the bitch-fest started.


I defer to your better memory, thank you.

Scott,





On Sep-22-2009, at 5:09 PM, Stefan Gonick wrote:


Hi Scott,

I have been agreeing with everything that you written up until now.  
I take
issue with the final part of your sentence. I do not believe that it  
was the
"bitch-fest" that led Phil to stop answering posts in the first  
place. I think
that it was Phil's lack of communication that started the bitch- 
fest. I

think that you have the order backwards.

Also, the bitch-fest has been quite legitimate and deserving of a  
response.

Owners of a product that cared about the product would have responded
long ago.

I still believe, as I have stated for a long time now, that Phil's  
poor
communication tendencies started the final downfall of this product.  
It was
his poor handling of Robert's announcement of leaving Witango due to  
lack of
documentation that caused the beginning of a mass exodus of the  
product.

This led to a rapid downward spiral... *sigh*  It's a real shame.

Phil has probably moved on to bigger and better things at this  
point. It would
be responsible (and communicative) of Phil to let us know what's  
going on.

That has not been Phil's forte, however. Hence, the bitch-fest.

Stefan

At 04:00 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote:

Some good points Rick,

But I think the number of years Tango has been struggling as a  
product

is just as wide open to personal interpretation as who started the
bitch-fest that led Phil to stop answering Posts in the first place.

Scott,





On Sep-22-2009, at 4:37 PM, Rick Sanders wrote:


I disagree with the first and second paragraphs. When With took over
WiTango
they made many promises. They promised continued support, new
versions, a
better distribution infrastructure, more market awareness.
As developers this was good news. As business people we go by what
other
people say and take their word. So, the writing has not been on the
wall for
9 years, but definitely in the last 2.

If the product is in fact dead or dropped, then they should come out
and say
so instead of not saying anything at all leaving false hope. At
least tell
people to move on. Although many people were upset when Visual
studio was
first released and VB developers would have to learn new ways of
developing
applications and re-writing applications, at least Microsoft came
out and
told people VB is no longer supported and you have to learn .net.
WiTango
should do the same in my opinion.

No, Phil and Sophie don't need to respond to threats or insults. I
totally
agree. But, maybe they should recognize why they are getting threats
and
insults and address the issue of WiTango.


[-- Scott Wrote:
---]

The writing has been on the wall for 9 years - 9 YEARS [one more and
it'll
be 10!], so if people feel they have been burned by Phil...
well, that's what happens when you can't stop yourself from  
gambling.

Eventually you lose.

As for who started the unprofessional death-spiral, I think fingers
can be
pointed in a lot of directions that don't necessarily take you  
down- under.


I haven't had personal correspondence with Phil or Sophie in over  
3 or

4 years I think, so I have no idea what they're up to, but I don't
blame
them one bit for not answering the threats or insults that come from
some
people on this List.

[---
---]

Rick Sanders
Webenergy
Canada: 902-431-7279
USA:   919-799-9076
Canada: www.webenergy.ca
USA:   www.webenergyusa.com






TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


=
Database WebWorks: Dynamic web sites through database integration
http://www.DatabaseWebWorks.com


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: License Keys

[Scott Cadillac]

> Hey... I just had a thought Maybe there is a a whole new  
Witango, forum,
> support, etc. out there and we don't even know it! Could we be on  
the wrong

> mailing list Mmmm?

Won't that be a Homer Simpson (D'oh!) moment?



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: License Keys

[Scott Cadillac]

Some good points Rick,

But I think the number of years Tango has been struggling as a product  
is just as wide open to personal interpretation as who started the  
bitch-fest that led Phil to stop answering Posts in the first place.


Scott,





On Sep-22-2009, at 4:37 PM, Rick Sanders wrote:

I disagree with the first and second paragraphs. When With took over  
WiTango
they made many promises. They promised continued support, new  
versions, a

better distribution infrastructure, more market awareness.
As developers this was good news. As business people we go by what  
other
people say and take their word. So, the writing has not been on the  
wall for

9 years, but definitely in the last 2.

If the product is in fact dead or dropped, then they should come out  
and say
so instead of not saying anything at all leaving false hope. At  
least tell
people to move on. Although many people were upset when Visual  
studio was
first released and VB developers would have to learn new ways of  
developing
applications and re-writing applications, at least Microsoft came  
out and
told people VB is no longer supported and you have to learn .net.  
WiTango

should do the same in my opinion.

No, Phil and Sophie don't need to respond to threats or insults. I  
totally
agree. But, maybe they should recognize why they are getting threats  
and

insults and address the issue of WiTango.


[-- Scott Wrote:
---]

The writing has been on the wall for 9 years - 9 YEARS [one more and  
it'll

be 10!], so if people feel they have been burned by Phil...
well, that's what happens when you can't stop yourself from gambling.
Eventually you lose.

As for who started the unprofessional death-spiral, I think fingers  
can be
pointed in a lot of directions that don't necessarily take you down- 
under.


I haven't had personal correspondence with Phil or Sophie in over 3 or
4 years I think, so I have no idea what they're up to, but I don't  
blame
them one bit for not answering the threats or insults that come from  
some

people on this List.

[---
---]

Rick Sanders
Webenergy
Canada: 902-431-7279
USA:   919-799-9076
Canada: www.webenergy.ca
USA:   www.webenergyusa.com






TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: License Keys

[Scott Cadillac]

Lawn mowers don't come with non-transferable license agreements  
Robert. This is a poor analogy.


And no, I'm not making a big deal of this because Phil is ignoring his  
user-base - you are.


I'm making a big deal of this because your words and intended actions  
are wrong.


Scott,





On Sep-22-2009, at 4:22 PM, Robert Garcia wrote:

I agree that by this time, if you had not had a backup plan, or  
other arrangements, it would be poor planning on your end. I don't  
mean it as a threat, even if phil asked me on list or privately to  
not send the keys out, although the product IS dead, I wouldn't do  
it. If he said, no comment on anything, but don't send the keys out,  
I wouldn't do it. Its like if someone loans you their lawn mower.  
You don't need it anymore and another guy asks for it. I am  
attempting to get permission from first guy, but he moved away, left  
no forwarding address. So I post a note in the paper and give him a  
week. If no answer, I assume he is gone and doesn't care so I let  
the second guy, who could really use it take the lawn mower.


I think the only reason you or anyone else think this could be a big  
issue, is because you can actually imagine a scenario where Phil  
(witango inc) is still around, but would purposely and actively  
ignore his user base for a LONG period of time. Which is sad. Anyone  
else, you would assume they left and its over.


--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

On Sep 22, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:


You're right on the money Mark,

Another way to put it is "two wrongs don't make a right", or "you  
can't fight fire with fire".


The fact that support for Witango has been reduced to the  
unprofessional situation it is, doesn't mean we should continue to  
perpetuate more unprofessional conduct, such as what has been  
circulating on this list for so many years, as well as recently.



And for those others who still subscribe to this List; Pervasive  
dumped Tango flat-out 9 years ago, with nary a buyer in sight, the  
product was worthless in their view. If that wasn't a clear enough  
indicator that it was time to switch platforms, I don't know what is.


Then the next year along comes this individual that few if any had  
heard of, with some small business sense and only a big heart to  
back him up - will this one guy solve our problems? Many "hoped"  
so. But is "hope" good enough to continue banking our livings on?  
From this point, if anybody continued to invest in Witango - you  
did so at your own risk.


The writing has been on the wall for 9 years - 9 YEARS [one more  
and it'll be 10!], so if people feel they have been burned by  
Phil... well, that's what happens when you can't stop yourself from  
gambling. Eventually you lose.


As for who started the unprofessional death-spiral, I think fingers  
can be pointed in a lot of directions that don't necessarily take  
you down-under.


I haven't had personal correspondence with Phil or Sophie in over 3  
or 4 years I think, so I have no idea what they're up to, but I  
don't blame them one bit for not answering the threats or insults  
that come from some people on this List.


Scott,





On Sep-22-2009, at 12:48 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:


Scott,

As much respect as I have for Robert, and I do, he isn't perfect  
as we all know. We aren't either. Reminds me of a story.. Mother  
having a baby. In distress. Country doctor can't be found. He  
finally shows up, sees the situation acts quickly and it seems  
everything was resolved. A few days later, the mother died of the  
disease the doctor was treating at the home prior to arriving to  
deliver the baby. The father became angry and more angry. This  
doctor should have been more careful. He should not be allowed to  
practice. A terrible wrong had been committed and he needed to pay  
for it.


One day, this man's spiritual leader offered this council. "John,  
leave it alone. Nothing you can do will bring her back. Everything  
you do will only make it worse. John, leave it alone." Many years  
later, the bereaved father said, "I was an old man before I could  
see. I was an old man before I saw a country doctor, over worked  
underpaid, saving lives for the most part, with few tools and  
implements. I would have ruined his life and my own, except for  
the wise counsel of my spiritual leader, "John, leave it alone."


As angry as I have been over how poorly I have been treated by  
Phil at times and their company for a long time now, at this  
point, when all reasonable approaches have been tried and ef

Re: Witango-Talk: License Keys

[Scott Cadillac]

Robert,

It may not appear so to some, but your statements to Phil are nothing  
but a thinly veiled threat.


Phil owns the rights to these licenses and has sole control over them,  
and your "assumption" and ultimatum adds up to nothing less than  
extortion.


Give your head a shake.

Scott,


On Sep-22-2009, at 1:16 PM, Robert Garcia wrote:

No offense to me. I just keep getting requests from people asking  
for help, which would include a key. I understand their issue. They  
are mostly moving off of witango, but have a need due to demands on  
their own systems that requires a bridge. So one person that I know  
well enough from the board asks for a key, ok. Then 10 more come. At  
this point, I don't feel as comfortable, but feel horrible not  
helping, when I feel they have been left in a really bad spot. I  
would drop a few more thousand dollars on a key, would you?


So I felt I couldn't just leave them hanging high and dry, and I  
shouldn't just pass out keys. So I have sent a message to phil and  
posted, if they don't respond, then I will post them. I guess I  
didn't need to add the dungeon food comment at the end, but that is  
the rough edge this situation has bought out in me.


So, for the record, again:

Phil,

Many people feel stranded, and I have received more than a few  
requests for license keys to help them bridge to another platform.  
It is my assumption due to unreturned emails, and lack of any  
updates that this product (witango application server and studio) is  
dead. If the product is dead, these keys are of no use to me, and  
only of temporary use to others and may be released to those  
requesting. If the product is NOT dead, or there IS some update,  
please inform me in public here on the list, or in private if you  
wish so that I will no longer consider the product dead (EOL).


--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

On Sep 22, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Mark Weiss wrote:


Scott,

As much respect as I have for Robert, and I do, he isn't perfect as  
we all know. We aren't either. Reminds me of a story.. Mother  
having a baby. In distress. Country doctor can't be found. He  
finally shows up, sees the situation acts quickly and it seems  
everything was resolved. A few days later, the mother died of the  
disease the doctor was treating at the home prior to arriving to  
deliver the baby. The father became angry and more angry. This  
doctor should have been more careful. He should not be allowed to  
practice. A terrible wrong had been committed and he needed to pay  
for it.


One day, this man's spiritual leader offered this council. "John,  
leave it alone. Nothing you can do will bring her back. Everything  
you do will only make it worse. John, leave it alone." Many years  
later, the bereaved father said, "I was an old man before I could  
see. I was an old man before I saw a country doctor, over worked  
underpaid, saving lives for the most part, with few tools and  
implements. I would have ruined his life and my own, except for the  
wise counsel of my spiritual leader, "John, leave it alone."


As angry as I have been over how poorly I have been treated by Phil  
at times and their company for a long time now, at this point, when  
all reasonable approaches have been tried and efforts exhausted, my  
giving this injustice any energy only would hurt me. It would take  
away from productive pursuits I am involved in. Why hurt them?  
Because I have been  hurt? So I suggest, "Leave it alone. Let it  
die a quiet death in our lives." Perhaps he has found a new market  
in China we don't know about. Whatever his reason for his inaction  
and lack of communication, let's just leave it alone and remember  
the good times and enjoy the relationships we developed. Let's just  
leave Phil alone.


I know from personal experience that sometimes, you just have to  
walk away, mourn the loss and then move on. In time, you get over  
it, the hurt I mean. As for Robert, this has led to a very very  
profitable change to Zend and PHP. Others as well. If that is all  
it did, isn't that really good enough? Part of a process. Nothing  
more nothing less?


I suppose this pontificating may not be appreciated by all. Sorry  
if it offends.



D Mark Weiss
Office 1-435-752-4265  x 126  Days
cell 435.764.3529
dadwe...@gmail.com
SKYPE - dadweiss


On Sep 22, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:


Robert,

Witango may be a dead product, but that doesn't mean that someone  
isn't still in legal control of the licensing.


To openly publish license keys is a unprofessionally stupid move  
in my opinion.


Scott,





On Sep-21-2009, at 2:10 PM, Robert 

Re: Witango-Talk: License Keys

[Scott Cadillac]

You're right on the money Mark,

Another way to put it is "two wrongs don't make a right", or "you  
can't fight fire with fire".


The fact that support for Witango has been reduced to the  
unprofessional situation it is, doesn't mean we should continue to  
perpetuate more unprofessional conduct, such as what has been  
circulating on this list for so many years, as well as recently.



And for those others who still subscribe to this List; Pervasive  
dumped Tango flat-out 9 years ago, with nary a buyer in sight, the  
product was worthless in their view. If that wasn't a clear enough  
indicator that it was time to switch platforms, I don't know what is.


Then the next year along comes this individual that few if any had  
heard of, with some small business sense and only a big heart to back  
him up - will this one guy solve our problems? Many "hoped" so. But is  
"hope" good enough to continue banking our livings on? From this  
point, if anybody continued to invest in Witango - you did so at your  
own risk.


The writing has been on the wall for 9 years - 9 YEARS [one more and  
it'll be 10!], so if people feel they have been burned by Phil...  
well, that's what happens when you can't stop yourself from gambling.  
Eventually you lose.


As for who started the unprofessional death-spiral, I think fingers  
can be pointed in a lot of directions that don't necessarily take you  
down-under.


I haven't had personal correspondence with Phil or Sophie in over 3 or  
4 years I think, so I have no idea what they're up to, but I don't  
blame them one bit for not answering the threats or insults that come  
from some people on this List.


Scott,





On Sep-22-2009, at 12:48 PM, Mark Weiss wrote:


Scott,

As much respect as I have for Robert, and I do, he isn't perfect as  
we all know. We aren't either. Reminds me of a story.. Mother having  
a baby. In distress. Country doctor can't be found. He finally shows  
up, sees the situation acts quickly and it seems everything was  
resolved. A few days later, the mother died of the disease the  
doctor was treating at the home prior to arriving to deliver the  
baby. The father became angry and more angry. This doctor should  
have been more careful. He should not be allowed to practice. A  
terrible wrong had been committed and he needed to pay for it.


One day, this man's spiritual leader offered this council. "John,  
leave it alone. Nothing you can do will bring her back. Everything  
you do will only make it worse. John, leave it alone." Many years  
later, the bereaved father said, "I was an old man before I could  
see. I was an old man before I saw a country doctor, over worked  
underpaid, saving lives for the most part, with few tools and  
implements. I would have ruined his life and my own, except for the  
wise counsel of my spiritual leader, "John, leave it alone."


As angry as I have been over how poorly I have been treated by Phil  
at times and their company for a long time now, at this point, when  
all reasonable approaches have been tried and efforts exhausted, my  
giving this injustice any energy only would hurt me. It would take  
away from productive pursuits I am involved in. Why hurt them?  
Because I have been  hurt? So I suggest, "Leave it alone. Let it die  
a quiet death in our lives." Perhaps he has found a new market in  
China we don't know about. Whatever his reason for his inaction and  
lack of communication, let's just leave it alone and remember the  
good times and enjoy the relationships we developed. Let's just  
leave Phil alone.


I know from personal experience that sometimes, you just have to  
walk away, mourn the loss and then move on. In time, you get over  
it, the hurt I mean. As for Robert, this has led to a very very  
profitable change to Zend and PHP. Others as well. If that is all it  
did, isn't that really good enough? Part of a process. Nothing more  
nothing less?


I suppose this pontificating may not be appreciated by all. Sorry if  
it offends.



D Mark Weiss
Office 1-435-752-4265  x 126  Days
cell 435.764.3529
dadwe...@gmail.com
SKYPE - dadweiss


On Sep 22, 2009, at 7:58 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:


Robert,

Witango may be a dead product, but that doesn't mean that someone  
isn't still in legal control of the licensing.


To openly publish license keys is a unprofessionally stupid move in  
my opinion.


Scott,





On Sep-21-2009, at 2:10 PM, Robert Garcia wrote:

So I have a bunch of request for keys. I don't have a problem  
sharing them, the product seems obviously dead. And the people  
asking are asking for seemingly good reasons, and they are what I  
would consider respected members of this group.


So I get one response, "that key didn't seem to work", etc. I  
would rath

Re: Witango-Talk: License Keys

[Scott Cadillac]

Robert,

Witango may be a dead product, but that doesn't mean that someone  
isn't still in legal control of the licensing.


To openly publish license keys is a unprofessionally stupid move in my  
opinion.


Scott,





On Sep-21-2009, at 2:10 PM, Robert Garcia wrote:

So I have a bunch of request for keys. I don't have a problem  
sharing them, the product seems obviously dead. And the people  
asking are asking for seemingly good reasons, and they are what I  
would consider respected members of this group.


So I get one response, "that key didn't seem to work", etc. I would  
rather not have to give tech support of this issue. So, I will post  
all of my witango keys up by the end of the week. I give to the end  
of the week in case someone at witango inc wants to wake up and tell  
all these people looking for answers something. If I don't here  
anything from witango, I am just going to post all of my keys, and I  
am sure some others will follow suit.


So will the food left at the dungeon door be eaten?

--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives

[Scott Cadillac]

> Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the
> dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you
> leave food by the door and come back later, the food is
> gone and the plate is returned.

Ouch!



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Expired Variables and Forms

[Scott Cadillac]

Hey Dude,

The first time I did this was about 10 years ago, and that app is  
still tick'n along fine, no complaints.


Just don't set your IFRAME'd page refresh time too short (make it 5  
minutes or greater), because the extra workload on the server can add  
up fast if you have lots of concurrent users.


Good luck.

Scott




On Jul-17-2009, at 4:05 PM, WebDude wrote:

I have always had a problem with long forms and having user info  
expire before the forms were filled. I have done long forms in  
sections with a submit for every page. I have done timed javascripts  
that calls a pop-up after 25 minutes telling the user to save and  
continue.  Yada Yada Yada.


I am in the middle of putting together a very long form for a client  
and decided to try a different approach. I load a taf into an iframe  
with height and width attributes set to 1. The taf doesn't return  
anything, it's just a header with a meta-refresh every 25 minutes  
(1500 seconds).


Now call me dumb, but this works perfectly, as far as I can tell.  
I've tested it on many forms, forums, in-house blogs, etc., and I  
cannot get it to break. Every refresh refreshes the variables and  
holds onto all the user info.


A really simple solution to what I thought was a vexing problem. I  
just updated a bunch of stuff by adding the iframe at the bottom of  
a bunch of form pages.


I cannot find any drawbacks to this... I hope I am not missing  
something.





TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: iis connection timeout setting

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Ted,

A long webserver timeout value is most often pointless (if the server  
is giving no response at all), because a browser will likely timeout  
before the webserver does.


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Feb-18-2009, at 3:21 PM, Ted Wolfley wrote:


Hi,

We are trying to troubleshoot a hanging Witango server (windows 2003  
web edition, Witango 5.0 server, IIS 6.0) and we noticed that the  
IIS connection timeout had been increased to 600 seconds (default  
120 seconds).  Is 10 minutes to long for a connection timeout?  We  
are considering lowering it the default value.


Ted Wolfley
Lead Internet and Database Programmer
The Ogden Group of Rochester
phone: (585) 321 1060 x23
fax: (585) 321 0043
t...@ogdengroup.com

www.ogdengroup.com



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: Witango on Windows Server 2008 ?

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Steve,

Wouldn't a decision like this be more up to the IT department of the hospital? 
Especially given its important requirement...

I do intranet web applications almost exclusively, and the determining factor 
always comes down to what the IT department is setup to support.

Windows Server 2008 has been out for a little while, but most IT support for 
any mission-critical systems are at least 1 to 2 years behind. Learning, 
testing and training of new systems takes a long time in the corporate/intranet 
IT world.

One of my regular customers has a global VPN/WAN network, and a huge IT support 
staff, and it was only a year ago they allowed me to start using SQL Server 
2005 for my projects.

If you're after stability (and internal support), I think you're going to find 
Server 2003 is your answer.

Just a guess, but I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time, eh).

Scott,



On Monday, January 19, 2009 12:47pm, "Steve Briggs"  said:

> I'm setting up a new Witango server for a client and need to choose
> between Windows Server 2003 and Windows Server 2008. I've been using
> 2003 and don't have any experience with 2008, and was wondering if
> anyone else is running Witango on 2008 and if so would you recommend
> it over 2003 or not.
> 
> Also, I'm ordering Witango Professional, and I have a choice of
> processor configurations - single processor single core, single
> processor multi core, multi processor single core, and multi
> processor multi core. Any recommendations one way or another?
> 
> My number one priority is stability. This is for a hospital and they
> are running some mission-critical Witango apps.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
>   -- Steve
> 
> 
> **
> Steve Briggs
> Wow Pages
> Portland, Maine
> Houston, Texas
> 
> 207-761-2450
> 888-325-5907
> 
> st...@wowpages.com
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Witango-Talk: Facebook group

[Scott Cadillac]

Many of us have known, or have known of each-other for a very long time.

Although Facebook is not perfect (people either love it or hate it), I  
thought I would create a Facebook group for those that still want to  
be connected or have a glimpse at the faces behind the many emails  
we've exchanged over the years.


http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42794198758

All the best into the new year. May you find peace and prosperity, or  
it finds you.


Scott Cadillac
~ 902-624-1266
~ http://www.xmlx.net/







TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Microsoft Access 2003 database memo field data

[Scott Cadillac]

You're welcome Peter,

> BTW why does describing a problem to someone else
> so often turn on a light bulb over one's head??

Because it forces you to look at the problem from another perspective.

Always glad to help, even subconsciously ;-)

Scott,





On Dec-20-2008, at 2:26 PM, Peter Fogg wrote:

All I am asking the search to do is return the record id and the  
contents of the memo field of all the records in the table. The memo  
field sorted alpha asc. There is no criteria specified, just get the  
data form every record in the table. BTW, that the memo field has  
some entry in every record.


Well, after writing the above paragraph, I decided to try something  
that I hadn't tried before - I removed the "Retrieve distinct rows  
only" requirement from the search action Voila! The search works  
correctly!!


Thanks very much for you response and BTW why does describing a  
problem to someone else so often turn on a light bulb over one's  
head??


Peter -

On Dec 20, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:


Hi Peter,

The message refers to data handling between the ODBC driver and  
your database.


I would examine what values you are passing "in" to your database  
search criteria (to get your search results). Either from an  
argument, or are you using the memo field directly in a join?


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Dec-20-2008, at 1:50 PM, Peter Fogg wrote:


Hello all,

If the memo field contains a "small" amount of data, the WiTango  
search returns the data; if the memo field contains a "large"  
amount of data, this message is returned:


"[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] The field is too small  
to accept the amount of data you attempted to add. Try inserting  
or pasting less data. 22001"


I have not experimented to determine what "small" and "large" are  
but my guess is less than or greater than 255 characters.


The message implies that I am trying to insert data too large for  
a field but this is a search action. Does the message refer to the  
WiTango search action default array, ResultSet, in which the  
results is placed?


Thanks for any thoughts on this problem.

Peter -

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Microsoft Access 2003 database memo field data

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Peter,

The message refers to data handling between the ODBC driver and your  
database.


I would examine what values you are passing "in" to your database  
search criteria (to get your search results). Either from an argument,  
or are you using the memo field directly in a join?


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Dec-20-2008, at 1:50 PM, Peter Fogg wrote:


Hello all,

If the memo field contains a "small" amount of data, the WiTango  
search returns the data; if the memo field contains a "large" amount  
of data, this message is returned:


"[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] The field is too small to  
accept the amount of data you attempted to add. Try inserting or  
pasting less data. 22001"


I have not experimented to determine what "small" and "large" are  
but my guess is less than or greater than 255 characters.


The message implies that I am trying to insert data too large for a  
field but this is a search action. Does the message refer to the  
WiTango search action default array, ResultSet, in which the results  
is placed?


Thanks for any thoughts on this problem.

Peter -

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: RSS: & = &

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Wayne,

Depending on your version of tango, you should be able to just add  
ENCODING=HTML to your @VAR or @COLUMN metatag.


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Nov-18-2008, at 9:19 PM, Wayne Irvine wrote:


I've recently converted several news systems to RSS Feeds.

It's a fairly straight forward process but has a few niggling little  
bugs to do with the format of the field data.


If an item has an '&' it fails on Microsoft Explorer. It requires  
the '&' encoding.


Is there an ENCODING attribute in Witango that performs this  
conversion?


If not, has anyone written a TCF or module that does all the  
necessary conversions?


And if not, can someone point me to a RFC about this formatting/ 
encoding so I can get a definitive list of the characters that  
require encoding so I may write it myself? I'm not even sure what  
this sort of encoding is called.


Wayne Irvine

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Studio on Leopard

[Scott Cadillac]

To me it's analogous to many Windows developers
staying on XP because it's more stable than Vista.



Very true John, about 2 weeks ago I reinstalled my main desktop  
machine for some bigger/faster hard drives and there was no question -  
XP it was, and so XP it still is.


Vista sux!

Scott,




On Nov-13-2008, at 1:25 PM, John Carrieri wrote:


I develop on the Mac and witango works fine
under 10.4.   In addition we run it on both
10.4 and 10.5 servers.

Servers:
10.4  Very stable
10.5  Works when stripping out 64 bit code. ( via Dale's prior posts)

Dev Studio:
10.4  Stable ( I run on my desktop)
10.5  Works for editing tafs, just can't modify db connections
 (I run it on my laptop)

While I would appreciate an update for the studio
to work with 10.5, we all know that the focus right
now for Phil is to get v6 out.  I would just work
under 10.4 right now for the Dev Studio or run
windows under Vmware or Parallels as suggested.
To me it's analogous to many Windows developers
staying on XP because it's more stable than Vista.

-John


On 11/13/08 5:15 AM, "Graham Dale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Unfortunately, I agree with Dan. Though a Mac person, I have had to
bite the bullet and use Witango under Windows. You can still use the
Mac WitangoServer to test, though ('cause we've had trouble with the
Windows Witangoserver!)  Hooray for dual systems.

On [Nov 13 -2008 ], at 8:03 AM, Dan Stein wrote:


If I was you I would install VM Ware Fusion and run everything under
windows I have never been able to get things working right with the
Mac version.

Maybe at this point Phil would give you a free version change for
Windows.

Life is a lot simpler with Witango and Windows and i am a Mac  
person.

--
Dan Stein
FileMaker 7 Certified Developer
FileMaker 9 Certified Developer
Digital Software Solutions
799 Evergreen Circle
Telford PA 18969
Land: 215-799-0192
Cell: 610-256-2843
Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st)
FMP, WiTango, EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.dss-db.com


  "There is a larger frame to the painting than the one that bounds
our life's events."



On Nov 12, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Brian Humes wrote:


I just installed Leopard on my Mac and I'm having problems getting
Witango studio to connect to my data sources.

I'm using OpenLink's single-tier drivers to connect to our MS SQL
Server 2005 box. I have updated the driver to the 10.5 version, but
still no luck. When I open the studio, the list of available
databases appears in the Workspace window, but when I click the
triangle to toggle one of them open, I get the small "Loading"
screen and then the whole application suddenly quits.

I've tried installing the Actual Technology drivers, but they're
even worse. I understand that JDBC is not an option either.

I know this has been volleyed about, but I can't seem to find
anything relating to MS SQL Server in the archives.

Has anyone gotten this to work? Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks!



Brian Humes
Director, Interactive
JohnsonRauhoff
269-428-9257 (direct)
269-428-3377 (main)
269-428-3312 (fax)
www.johnson-rauhoff.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





__

 John Carrieri
   Chairman & CEO

 U. Inc.
 12250 El Camino Real, Suite #100
 San Diego, Ca. 92130
 Office:   (858) 847-3350  x1001
 email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__

#1 in College Search  -  http://www.colleges.com
The Name says it All™ -  http://www.employment.com
Power to the People™  -  http://www.campaign.com

__

Colleges.com Natural Listings:
#1 Google keyword ‘colleges’  #1 MSN keyword ‘colleges’
#1 Google keyword ‘college’#1 AOL keyword ‘colleges’
#1 Yahoo keyword ‘colleges’   #1 Ask keyword ‘colleges’
#1 Yahoo keyword ‘college’ #1 Myspace keyword ‘colleges’

U. Magazine - Largest college magazine: 500,000 circulation
#1 on Google keyword ‘college magazine’
#1 on AOL keyword ‘college magazine’
#1 on Ask keyword ‘college magazine’




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Witango 6 Update

[Scott Cadillac]

For my part Phil, I hope you take all the time in the world you need -  
to ensure you're satisfied with the results, and that you enjoyed the  
process thoroughly.


Because the amount of effort required here is only worth it if you're  
happy while doing the work.


All the best.

Scott,

Sent from my iPod

On 27-Oct-08, at 7:37 AM, Phil Wade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Contrary to the rumours started on the list version 6 is on the way  
and is not dead.  The hold up is all legal issues and related to  
locating and isolating 3rd part code that has been used in the  
server under license and replacing it with open API calls so we can  
go open source.  This is taking a lot longer than we thought.


We understand that some developers have out grown the platform and  
have moved on to other platforms, that is their prerogative.   We  
have plans to keep supporting Witango while there are people out  
there wanting to use it.  To this end, can I ask that the you take  
up Robert's offer and move the porting to PHP discussion to his  
forum - http://devcom.bighead.net/ .


And yes we do have a lot of holidays down here minimum of 30 days  
leave a year which is 4 weeks statutory leave plus New Years Day,  
Australia Day, Anzac Day, Easter Friday and Monday, Queen's  
Birthday, Labour Day, Melbourne Cup Day, Christmas and Boxing Day,  
etc.  Keeps us a happy and family oriented business.


The Witango portion of our business is running above expectations  
albeit a little behind schedule.  Apart from that we are just moving  
ahead at a steady pace.



If you have any specific issues or questions contact me off list.


Regards

Phil





TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: re: Alternative languages

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert,

I've heard the same things about Ruby, it doesn't scale well.

Likewise, I have another axiom I measure by: The easier a language or  
platform can be programmed, the slower or less extensible that  
platform or application becomes.


The same rule even applies to ASP.NET, if you use their event-based  
model of programming (which all their standard training material and  
documentation promotes). But of course I don't use the event model.


Scott,




On Oct-24-2008, at 2:08 PM, Robert Garcia wrote:

One comment about Ruby on Rails. When I made my switchover, I  
evaluated many languages, and RoR was on the short list. It seemed  
very exciting, and I watched a lot of presentations, installed it  
played with it, etc.


However, 1 issue I had with witango was that even though you had  
load groups and it was supposed to scale, it did not scale well.  
Witango puts ease of coding as a priority well above performance of  
the application, or efficiency of the application when deployed. RoR  
does the same thing. It allows you to do a lot of things, with  
minimal code. This is GREAT for prototyping, but when you start  
getting heavy traffic, you hit a wall. With PHP, you can use a  
framework, like symphony or zend framework, and do things more  
easily like ruby or witango (not as easily) but you an also recode  
for maximum efficiency when the load starts coming.


Just keep that in mind, and read about what happened to Twitter with  
RoR when they started taking off. If you plan on keep doing a lot of  
low traffic sites, then I would say RoR is a great language. Also,  
RoR is still a bit immature, but I think it is growing, and will  
continue to get better.


On a side note, I am currently in the process of estimating and  
working out the cost to port a large RoR site that is up against  
this wall to the Zend/PHP platform.


--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

On Oct 24, 2008, at 9:27 AM, Stefan Gonick wrote:


Hi Scott,

I do agree that ColdFusion is probably still viable. It's just not a
vibrantly growing platform. It's probably safe to switch to that  
language
though, and I agree that it would be the easiest to switch to from  
Witango

of all of the other languages.

I take issue with the idea that RoR is a fringe language. As I said  
before,

studies have shown that it is the fastest growing language out there
currently (this is not true of Python). Much of the growth is from  
new developers
and people switching from PHP. I would provide a link to that study  
if I had
bookmarked it, but I didn't and a quick Google search didn't find  
it. RoR is
not one of the big 3 languages yet, but I'm guessing that it will  
be one of

the "big 4" languages before long.

Best regards,
Stefan

From: Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:45 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: SPAM-MED: Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie

Hi Stefan,

Just a quick comment here, in my experience ColdFusion seems alive  
and
well in the Corporate Intranet world. I see it all the time,  
including

lots of new big projects.

In fact, if I ever got bored enough with ASP.NET I might go back to
learning it all over again. I actually did ColdFusion 3.0 before I
learned Tango starting at version 3.5.

Thanks.

Scott,




On Oct-24-2008, at 11:39 AM, Stefan Gonick wrote:

> Hi Webdude,
>
> I did a lot of research on alternative languages to Witango. I
> personally really
> didn't like ASP and PHP, so I ruled those out for me. I ultimately
> settled on
> 2 languages: ColdFusion and Ruby on Rails.
>
> If you want to get up to speed as quickly and easily as possible on
> a new
> language, then I would definitely recommend ColdFusion as the
> easiest language
> to learn. It's also very easy to convert Witango code to ColdFusion
> code. I've
> done it for a couple of sites. In fact, when I built a ColdFusion
> site, I actually used
> the Witango builders to get started and converted the results html
> to Coldfusion.
> That was faster than doing ColdFusion from scratch. :)
>
> ColdFusion also has many practical features built right into it.  
For

> instance, it has
> the easiest PDF function of any language. You simply generate css
> based html
> like you normally would and then surround it with ColdFusion's open
> and close
> pdf tags. That's it! It's very cool.
>
> One downside to ColdFusion is that it is just a page-oriented
> language. There
> is no built-in way to organize your application's higher level
> structure like you can
> with taf's. However, there is an

Re: Witango-Talk: re: Alternative languages

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Stefan,

I apologize if my comments were not received well. I guess I just  
measure the viability of a language or tool by a different yard-stick.  
I may work in a different arena than some of us, and I should be  
careful about that when giving advice.


To explain, I try to steer clear of marketing, hype and studies. I go  
by what my customers are actually using. And given that my customers  
are big corporations where my focus is internal business applications  
- few people have even heard of Ruby, let alone using it on a mission- 
critical installation.


I recently saw a free open-source PHP app used in a corporate  
environment for an internal discussion board about project  
development, it failed so miserably that these customers don't even  
want to learn how to spell PHP.


Business customers are not forgiving, and won't tolerate bugs or down- 
time. Not like some public-facing systems where users complaints are  
taken with a whole different attitude.


Sorry.

Scott,





On Oct-24-2008, at 1:27 PM, Stefan Gonick wrote:


Hi Scott,

I do agree that ColdFusion is probably still viable. It's just not a
vibrantly growing platform. It's probably safe to switch to that  
language
though, and I agree that it would be the easiest to switch to from  
Witango

of all of the other languages.

I take issue with the idea that RoR is a fringe language. As I said  
before,

studies have shown that it is the fastest growing language out there
currently (this is not true of Python). Much of the growth is from  
new developers
and people switching from PHP. I would provide a link to that study  
if I had
bookmarked it, but I didn't and a quick Google search didn't find  
it. RoR is
not one of the big 3 languages yet, but I'm guessing that it will be  
one of

the "big 4" languages before long.

Best regards,
Stefan

From: Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:45 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: SPAM-MED: Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie

Hi Stefan,

Just a quick comment here, in my experience ColdFusion seems alive and
well in the Corporate Intranet world. I see it all the time, including
lots of new big projects.

In fact, if I ever got bored enough with ASP.NET I might go back to
learning it all over again. I actually did ColdFusion 3.0 before I
learned Tango starting at version 3.5.

Thanks.

Scott,




On Oct-24-2008, at 11:39 AM, Stefan Gonick wrote:

> Hi Webdude,
>
> I did a lot of research on alternative languages to Witango. I
> personally really
> didn't like ASP and PHP, so I ruled those out for me. I ultimately
> settled on
> 2 languages: ColdFusion and Ruby on Rails.
>
> If you want to get up to speed as quickly and easily as possible on
> a new
> language, then I would definitely recommend ColdFusion as the
> easiest language
> to learn. It's also very easy to convert Witango code to ColdFusion
> code. I've
> done it for a couple of sites. In fact, when I built a ColdFusion
> site, I actually used
> the Witango builders to get started and converted the results html
> to Coldfusion.
> That was faster than doing ColdFusion from scratch. :)
>
> ColdFusion also has many practical features built right into it. For
> instance, it has
> the easiest PDF function of any language. You simply generate css
> based html
> like you normally would and then surround it with ColdFusion's open
> and close
> pdf tags. That's it! It's very cool.
>
> One downside to ColdFusion is that it is just a page-oriented
> language. There
> is no built-in way to organize your application's higher level
> structure like you can
> with taf's. However, there is an open source framework called
> Fusebox that you
> can use for doing that. It also enforces the model-view-controller
> way developing
> applications, which is good. However, Fusebox then becomes another
> thing that
> you need to learn. There are some very good books for learning
> ColdFusion on
> Amazon, and it's free to download the developer edition. There are
> also open
> source RAD environments available for it.
>
> Another potential downside to ColdFusion is that may not have long
> term viability.
> If it weren't for the fact that Adobe is supporting it, it would
> probably be on its way out.
> Its user base is relatively stagnant. However, as long as Adobe
> keeps supporting it,
> it will probably stay viable.
>
> Ruby on Rails (RoR), on the other hand, is an exciting up and coming
> web development
> language. I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned it. It is the
> fastest growing
> language out there, and many PHP developers are moving to it.
>
> RoR has a longer learning curve than ColdFusion. You have to first

Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Stefan,

Just a quick comment here, in my experience ColdFusion seems alive and  
well in the Corporate Intranet world. I see it all the time, including  
lots of new big projects.


In fact, if I ever got bored enough with ASP.NET I might go back to  
learning it all over again. I actually did ColdFusion 3.0 before I  
learned Tango starting at version 3.5.


Thanks.

Scott,




On Oct-24-2008, at 11:39 AM, Stefan Gonick wrote:


Hi Webdude,

I did a lot of research on alternative languages to Witango. I  
personally really
didn't like ASP and PHP, so I ruled those out for me. I ultimately  
settled on

2 languages: ColdFusion and Ruby on Rails.

If you want to get up to speed as quickly and easily as possible on  
a new
language, then I would definitely recommend ColdFusion as the  
easiest language
to learn. It's also very easy to convert Witango code to ColdFusion  
code. I've
done it for a couple of sites. In fact, when I built a ColdFusion  
site, I actually used
the Witango builders to get started and converted the results html  
to Coldfusion.

That was faster than doing ColdFusion from scratch. :)

ColdFusion also has many practical features built right into it. For  
instance, it has
the easiest PDF function of any language. You simply generate css  
based html
like you normally would and then surround it with ColdFusion's open  
and close

pdf tags. That's it!  It's very cool.

One downside to ColdFusion is that it is just a page-oriented  
language. There
is no built-in way to organize your application's higher level  
structure like you can
with taf's.  However, there is an open source framework called  
Fusebox that you
can use for doing that. It also enforces the model-view-controller  
way developing
applications, which is good. However, Fusebox then becomes another  
thing that
you need to learn. There are some very good books for learning  
ColdFusion on
Amazon, and it's free to download the developer edition. There are  
also open

source RAD environments available for it.

Another potential downside to ColdFusion is that may not have long  
term viability.
If it weren't for the fact that Adobe is supporting it, it would  
probably be on its way out.
Its user base is relatively stagnant. However, as long as Adobe  
keeps supporting it,

it will probably stay viable.

Ruby on Rails (RoR), on the other hand, is an exciting up and coming  
web development
language. I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned it. It is the  
fastest growing

language out there, and many PHP developers are moving to it.

RoR has a longer learning curve than ColdFusion. You have to first  
learn the Ruby
programming language. You then learn the RoR platform. What's really  
cool about
RoR, though, is that like Witango, it tries to do a lot of the work  
for you in order to
minimize development time. It succeeds at this better than any of  
the other languages,
and it may even be faster than Witango. Once you get fully up to  
speed with RoR,
you will be able to develop applications faster than you can on PHP,  
ASP, and ColdFusion.


There are tons of free modules available for it like there are for  
PHP (though not as many
as PHP yet). As I said, there is a lot of excitement about this  
language/platform, so
there is a lot being contributed to it and it is growing rapidly.  
There are many many
good books available for learning it. There are a number of  
different open source RAD
environments available for it as well. I would recommend NetBeans  
from Sun.


The one downside of RoR is that, like Witango, it is a relatively  
slow interpreted language
instead of a compiled one. This means that you have to put in a  
bigger effort to support
very high volume web applications. However, we are already used to  
that with Witango. :)


Since you are starting out looking for a new language, I just wanted  
to share the results

of my many hours of research into language alternatives. Good luck!

Best regards,
Stefan



At 12:47 AM 10/24/2008, you wrote:


Janet,

I feel your pain. I have been busy downloading stuff and poking  
around. I have read hundreds of pages on just the install stuff for  
Apache, MySQL, PHP, ColdFusion, .NET... I even spent a day on  
nothing but open source. I have a spare server I have been thinking  
of using just to try some stuff out. What is really daunting is the  
pages upon pages and gotchyas on just an installation... not to  
mention the additional downloads needed to make it work in Windows.  
Funny... I have about 60 sites, some getting well more then 100,000  
page views per day... well over 1,000,000 visitors per month in all  
- all on one MSSQL dedicated server and two dedicated Witango  
servers runninng Witango 2000. Never a slowdown and has been rock  
solid for over 8 years. 16 e-commerce sites, 2 Data Access  
Managements sites, 4 forums, 12 internal employee sites for some  
very large corporations, one very large directory site, 2 online  
streaming PDF sites

Re: Witango-Talk: RAD dev tools

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi John,

You're right on track. Ben and I proposed this very idea years ago,  
but alas it didn't go anywhere.


It's a shame too, because obviously server technologies are very set  
these days. It's either Java, .NET based, PHP or ColdFusion. The  
occasional radical comes along like Ruby or Python, but in my opinion  
these are just blips on the scope. And even if a new server platform  
could come along to supplant the kings of the hill - at this point in  
the game, it would have to be free to compete.


But when it comes to a good Editor to build that code (whether PHP or  
F-frigg'n #) - people will pay very good money for a kick-a** IDE that  
gets their work done fast, smart and allow them to have fun at it, to  
boot.


Oh well. Such is life, nobody said it would be fair.

Scott,





On Oct-24-2008, at 12:05 PM, John McGowan wrote:


Witango is Witango...

It just happens to XML as a medium for storing the programming  
logic.  Underneath the XML is a language, just one that you would  
never write by hand... unless you were insane...


Which was a cool idea, and completely underutilized.  You could do  
so many cool things with it because of the XML if you wanted to.  A  
while back when I was starting to get really good at writing XSL  
Transformations, I wrote some transforms that worked with with  
witango xml (taf and tcf files).  I prototyped, as a proof of  
concept, an XSLT that converted some basic witango actions  
(conditionals and control structures) to another language, PHP.


What's cool is that with an XSLT like this in your back pocket, you  
could use witango as a RAD environment for other languages.  The  
J2EE product from witango is similar, but it's way more complicated,  
because it also has to be capable of parsing witango's meta tags.   
What I was playing with, was a system where you would abandon the  
use of @tags, and instead just write straight php,jsp,asp, right  
there in the witango editor.  I'm sure i wasn't the only one to  
think of it.  I'm positive that if someone added this (very thin)  
layer of functionality to the witango editor, that today there would  
be PHP developers using Witango as their PHP IDE.  Why?  Because you  
would be able to use the strongest part of the Witango system. That  
being, the dev studios approach to "visual coding".  there is no  
other part of the witango system that sets it apart.  Witango's  
action approach to the top level coding view is unique, and like  
"code folding on steroids"


Witango should have taken this piece, and exploited it, because I'm  
sure it won't be long until some really cool PHP IDE catches up and  
decides to add that extra layer of abstraction.  Heck one might  
already do it out there, but I haven't seen it yet.  I've seen good  
"code folding", but not something that works as well as the action  
system in witango.


The worst part about it all, is that I beleive that the prototype  
that I described above, probably violates the license agreement for  
Witango, because if I remember correctly, I was told that using a  
tool like JTransit was a violation of the license agreement.


And, for what it's worth, I've been emailing phil, sophie, and  
support for a couple of weeks now asking for any information that  
they have on running witango in a 64 bit linux environment, and have  
gotten NO response from them.


/John

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 3:50 AM, janet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So if Witango is not PHP or C+ or whatever what is it?

Is it just XML?

If so then why don't I see other products that are XML?

I ask this because when I was looking at other RAD tools they all  
seem to end up with PHP, VB,  or C+ or something but not XML.



Wow talk about getting back to basics.


Janet




From: WebDude [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:48 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: RAD dev tools

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Janet,


How come Witango shielded me from all of these languages?
I know Witango is an XML code generator so why isn't there any other
products creating XML? I am asking the wrong question?




So if Witango is not PHP or C+ or whatever what is it?
Is it just XML?
If so then why don’t I see other products that are XML?
I ask this because when I was looking at other RAD tools they all  
seem to end up with PHP, VB,  or C+ or something but not XML.




These are some very good questions.

Witango is just one of many different Web Application platforms. Each  
platform uses a different language to accomplish basically the same  
thing - deliver webpages made up of content from a database. It just  
so happens that part of the Witango language incorporates XML as part  
of it's logical structure. Whereas other languages (PHP, C#, etc...)  
only see XML as a thing that contains data.


The original Butler/Tango "vision" of how to program was way ahead of  
it's time. In fact I think it was so far ahead of it's time, that  
still nobody has yet accomplished quite the same ease at building  
structural logical code that Witango does so well to this day.


Phil has tried to keep the vision alive (and he get's an "A" for  
effort), but the marketing and hype of other technology advancements  
on other platforms has clearly won out long ago.


The XML part of Witango comes from how to support the "vision" and  
philosophy of the Tango Editor. To sum up why the Witango language is  
wrapped in XML, I think it is because whoever is responsible for  
engineering Tango as a platform was obviously thinking of the  
programmer first, and the language second (not an industry standard).


Note, the XML part of Witango didn't come along until Tango 2000,  
before that the TAF files were in binary format (something that other  
interpreted languages still don't do).


Anyway Janet, a lot could be said about the advantages and  
disadvantages of XML, but I would recommend not spending too much time  
getting hung up on the XML part. What's important is that you consider  
looking into a language that mimics the Metatag part of the Witango  
Language. That's the part that will be important when it comes to  
transposing your projects into a new language.


The Metatags of Witango are like PHP functions, or ColdFusion tags. In  
my opinion, I think ColdFusion will be as close you can come to  
mimicking the Metatag functionality and syntax you are used to.


But with that said, I would also recommend checking out a production  
called IronSpeed. http://www.ironspeed.com/


It's not free, and it's ASP.NET based, but it is essentially a GUI  
based method of building web applications (using Wizards) - very much  
like how the Witango Editor Builders do it.


I hope this helps a little.

Good luck.

Scott,

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Witango-Talk: Re: Mark's advice

[Scott Cadillac]

Thank you for your nice comments Mark, and for having such a good  
memory :-)


> Starting over again is refreshing, invigorating, keeps you young  
and is really quite satisfying.


Janet, Dude and any others who are trying or waiting to make these  
potentially career altering decisions, take Mark's words to heart and  
read his email over a couple of times. He has summed it up well once  
again.


In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter what language  
you choose. Each has their benefits and pitfalls. What matters is that  
you choose one that suits your style of writing code, has a comfort  
level for you (licensing and other costs, etc...) and that you're  
exciting about learning what it has to offer you. Choose a language  
you would be proud to be an expert in.


Once you've got past the initial beginner stage - you'll be amazed at  
how far you came in a very short period of time.


And what also matters here, is that you're making this career  
affecting decision yourself, and you're no longer waiting for someone  
else, in some other company, in some other country - to handle or  
carry forward your career or technology decisions for you. And do this  
despite any economic or employer pressure you may feel. Otherwise  
you're just setting yourselves up to always be a victim of  
circumstance (which is very evident on this List).


If you can be happy with your work; your living, your projects and  
your life will fall in place behind you as you blaze this new trail.


Remember... Witango Technologies is just a vendor. We are the  
employers, and vendors are here to serve us, and if that's not working  
out then we need to move on. Phil can choose to catch up to us if he  
wishes, but that's up to him (not us).


Thank you, and all the best.

Scott Cadillac
~ 902-624-1266
~ http://www.xmlx.net/







On Oct-24-2008, at 2:26 AM, Mark Hawk Weiss wrote:


Webdude,

It isn't that hard, until you want to get to the finer points. I  
started first by installing MAMP on my mac. It installed just as  
advertised and I was able to get my feet wet on my laptop at my  
leisure.


Then I installed on an old 386 box, Ubuntu version of Linux. I  
downloaded it, made a DVD and boom, I was running.  Again, as I  
recall Ubuntu had it all, installed with no problems and I was able  
to get php code I had written on the mac to work. I think Robert is  
using some version of Fedora. I don't know that is so great about  
it, but who cares when you are just learning and playing in the  
sandbox? I was able using Navicat to configure the MySQL db on the  
Linux box and PHP was also not a problem. I had one app that I had  
written in witango, and I mapped out the business logic on a piece  
of paper and decided how I thought it should work. I first got one  
page to work, an insert, then another, a select, and then another.  
an update, all one at a time. Then I learned about includes and  
variables. For me the variables were a bit of a challenge, both in  
setting them and using them in display as well as in updates and  
inserts. But I eventually got that going, one step at a time. If I  
had to do it again to day, I bet I would have to refresh my memory.  
It wasn't that intuitive for me.  Help from the web, from Robert  
Garcia in a couple of short emails. A book suggestion from Ben, read  
more examples on the web and again, little by little got it working.  
I then put some CSS in to make it look right. That was good.


So a simple app, and little by little it worked. It ran on my mac  
laptop and it ran on the LAMP Server. Of course I didn't stress it,  
that wasn't the point. I proved to myself I could do it, and if I  
wanted to , I would just take it one step at a time, just like  
Witango went.


Now there are all kinds of PHP stuff that I am told are so cool, and  
free that I still don't have a clue how to implement. At some point,  
if I need to , I will slug through it. One thing that is nice, when  
you have a select page that works, you start the next one like that  
and it does go a bit faster. And at some point, it would be good to  
have a mentor who had the time to show you examples. It would go  
faster then. I remember how many people on the list did that for me  
and witango in the 1.0 days. Eric Weidl and I spent a week I think  
at one point at his office in near Chicago. I worked along side of  
him and he showed me all kinds of stuff. A huge help. I am sure you  
can find someone to help you that way. There are still nice guys  
around.


I never did the Zend thing. I downloaded it once when Robert told me  
to, but it was over my head so I took it off. I wasn't ready.  At  
some point, I would like to learn about it since Ben and Robert rave  
about it.


The point is, that you can do it. I like the advice I got from Scott  
Cadillac. Pick a language and just take it one step at a ti

Re: Witango-Talk: community

[Scott Cadillac]

I think the shoe is on the other foot now.

Scott,


On Oct-21-2008, at 3:50 PM, Robert Garcia wrote:

Sorry, this thing was sitting dormant for several months. Fixing. If  
you haven't used vbulletin before, its a beautiful thing once it is  
all setup.


--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

On Oct 21, 2008, at 11:38 AM, WebDude wrote:


I registered. I am still waiting...

Still in moderation queue to be added to the forum


webdude

-Original Message-
From: Robert Garcia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:22 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: community

I guess registration is disabled, I will have that resolved today.
Keep trying.

--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bighead.net/ -
http://eventpix.com/

On Oct 21, 2008, at 8:12 AM, Robert Garcia wrote:


I would hate to see the community die. A while ago, a few of us
started to build a community that was not list based, but in a
searchable forum with a wiki and such. It never went anywhere,  
because

we couldn't agree on if it was a negative thing to witango the
company. That seems all moot now. And since this list may go away
soon, I thought I would post up.

http://devcom.bighead.net/

This is just on a staging server but provides sections for asking
questions on how to port to other languages, and allows us to create
how tos in the wiki. Ben was helping moderate this, and there were a
few others that were going to take other sections, like the  
coldfusion
section. If everyone moved over there, we can continue the  
community.
Feel free to keep asking witango questions there, I will be there  
and
will answer. Hopefully ben and the others may also want to still  
help,

and we can keep this community going.

If not, thats ok too. But at least we would all be able to freely
communicate. I don't want it to be a witango bashing place, I want  
it

to be a place where we move forward. Some staying with witango, some
moving to other platforms, but we can all help each other.  So
register and start posting. ;-)

Witango would also be welcome to post announcements about v6 if it  
is

still coming out.

--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
__
__ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie (end of the List)

[Scott Cadillac]

Isn't it sad, how all of Mark's insightful remarks can be swept away  
in one fell swoop like that?


Well I think it's safe to say that we can expect the List to be  
shut down soon. It should be, after reaching a point such as this.


So before I no longer have the ability to reach you all, I would just  
like to say a fond farewell and a sincere thank you to the colleagues  
I've gained, the customers I've had the pleasure of working for and  
especially the friends I've made on this List over the years.


This List has been a wonderful opportunity and a great resource to all  
of us, and we have all benefitted from it, in one form or another.


The beginnings of my programming career included Tango and I don't  
regret that one moment. Sometimes I really miss those long nights and  
weekends putting in extra time learning all the metatags, eking out  
power with my finger tips on the keyboard at a quickening pace...  
those were the days.


I'll end my career in another programming language, and the best part  
is, I don't know which one yet.


Take care everyone, thank you for taking time to read all my past  
ramblings, forgive my mistakes and any terse comments I've made, and I  
hope the very best for all of you, including Phil and Sophie.


Please drop me an email occasionally, let me know how you're doing, or  
if you need a bit of help or advice. And if any of you are ever in  
Nova Scotia Canada, please stop by for tea.


My fondest regards, and no regrets.

Scott Cadillac
~ 902-624-1266
~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
~ http://www.xmlx.net/




On Oct-21-2008, at 6:41 AM, Tom Ferguson wrote:


Bravo?

These low-life skanks have played on each and every one of us for  
their own

commercial gain and have taken the best commercial product in this
particular niche and run it into the ground.

I have no sympathy at all for these ass-clowns.

May Phil and Sophie rot in hell.  Fuck 'em, and anyone else who  
sympathizes

with them.


-Original Message-
From: Mikal Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 02:18
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie

Wonderfully expressed, Mark.  Thanks x 10,000.

Mikal Anderson
Developer from Tango Days


On 10/20/2008 11:57 PM, Mark "Hawk" Weiss wrote:

Nothing we say will smoke them out, or change their course.

One thing I have learned is that many people respond to

pressure and

challenges by using the tools they have. Some people

understand that

part of their tool box is other people. Some leaders NEVER

learn that

lesson, never see others as part of the solution. All along

the way,

the resources of this group were at their disposal. They

chose not to

use those resources. This happens all the time. In tons of

businesses,

heck in marriages. My wife has poor night vision driving,

and freaks

out, not because I am a poor driver, but because of what she can't
see. Her limitation on that point, becomes my challenge, even my
limitation, if you know what I mean.

Ill-formed and complex problems come up all the time in

business. Such

are the problems Phil faces. He could have involved others,
collaboratively,  to solve those problems, share the load,

but has a

personality or mind set, that isn't open to that. That is

clear. It is

also clear that isn't going to change soon. He isn't going to say,
"Hey, sorry I didn't reach out, have a few sign
non-competes/disclosure or whatever and get this done for

all of us."

Not in the cards. Not in the personality. So just face it

and accept

it. He is still an ok guy for sure. Just not a viable

business partner

that I can tell.

There are several legal options that open the way for a collective
effort.  Heaven knows, there have been many on the list who

would have

helped, and have shown by their actions over the years to be great
great resources. No matter what you say, you can't force them to be
collaborative or give up control or give up the credit or

trust others

who are better than them in some things. That is a choice

they need to

make willingly.

I have a relative like that. Absolutely no communication.

Nothing you

can do, until he needs something, and then afterwards he is

back into

his cave. I left a company and lost 6 figures to that kind of
behavior. Nothing could be done. Nothing.

Sylvia Ashton Warner, an educator in New Zealand said,

"Behavior has

it's reasons." It always does. Being clueless about them,

and having

an unwilling partner, destroys trust. And trust is at the center of
all successful human relationships.

So here is where I think we are at.

Someday perhaps a product will be released and and version of open
source of some flavor. At that point, it will be as if this product
had never existed. It will be a new product and a new idea

and a new

approach. Phil will then start

Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie

[Scott Cadillac]

Hey Dude,

Here are my comments.

When you mention ASP, are you talking about classic ASP, as in  
VBScript or JScript with .asp pages? Because obviously ASP.NET (.aspx  
pages) is the new Microsoft standard, and quite apart from the old way  
of scripting ASP - which I think is no longer supported.


So if you're looking for a "tag" like experience, I would go with PHP  
or ColdFusion.


Not that I'm discounting ASP.NET, because it can be quite easy to  
learn, especially if you stick to the Event-based model that Microsoft  
teaches in all their beginner training material. But Event model  
programming with Visual Studio is like comparing broccoli and oranges,  
when what you're looking for is something more like an apple.


PHP, or actually Coldfusion for that matter, is more like apples to  
your orange Witango code. The PHP (or ColdFusion) language is  
structured very similar in functionality and purpose, and ease of use.


But of course I'm not sure you'll find another Editor like Witango for  
PHP or ColdFusion, but at least your underlying code will be more  
readable, if that's the style you're used to.


Note, PHP may advertise that it is "free" (whereas ColdFusion is not),  
but be careful because in a serious production environment if you want  
your PHP code to go fast and be stable - you'll have to pay for some  
extra goodies.


Hope that helps.

Scott,





On Oct-20-2008, at 12:42 PM, WebDude wrote:


Hello all,

Well, I have a problem and maybe some of you could help me. I have  
been
using nothing but Tango and Witango since I started developing many  
years
ago. Started on Mac with Butler and eventually moved to Windows.  
Witango is
all I have ever used and now I am in a quandry. I see the writing is  
on the
wall and though I have resisted for many years, it seems that I am  
going to

have to take the plunge and figure out what to do for what I have that
already exists and for the future. The problem is that I am so  
comfortable
with what I have that moving is going to take a lot of effort. I  
have been
going through the different options out there and I am so confused  
as to
editors, parsers, etc. that I really do not know which direction to  
turn. I
have a very small smattering of ASP which I hacked in order to get a  
site
that was moved to our servers to work, but that is the only other  
language

that I even attempted to try. The real crux of the problem is that
everything out there looks very confusing and so far removed from  
what I
currently have. I am fairly adept in SQL, Witango, HTML and CSS but  
I have

never taken the time to learn anything new.

I downloaded some PHP editors, some sample ASP stuff, and to tell  
you the
truth, I just don't get a lot of it. Is there anything out there  
that gives
as visual of an interface as Witango? Or maybe is there a specific  
place you

can go to relearn the logic that it will take to use any of the tools
available? I think PHP is probably the place to start, but I am  
totally
confused as to how to go about it. I would prefer to continue using  
IIS as I
am very familiar with it along with the security. I went to the PHP  
site and
it seems that there are pages upon pages of just the install for  
IIS. Or,
how about editors? Are there any that you would recommend? Keep in  
mind my
Witango background. I never went to school for any of this stuff and  
I have
some pretty complicated things running on my sites from forums to  
streaming

PDFs, data access management systems to e-commerce.

This is going to be tough, but I need to take it one step at a time...



 PHP Test


Hello World'; ?>




WebDude

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie

[Scott Cadillac]

Dead technology or not, there are some legal hurtles here, not to  
mention the technical ones.


Anybody remember Transact? (spelling?) Look how far that got (or not)  
before it dropped off the radar.


Scott,




On Oct-19-2008, at 8:47 AM, GK wrote:

Perhaps as a community we should start our own open source code  
conversion tool for Tango/Witango to php, .net, etc.


Any takers?
- Original Message 
From: Robert Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:33:16 AM
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Open Letter to Phil and Sophie

I think there may have been a time when I would consider putting  
some of my money toward that. At this point, I don't think its worth  
it. It is dead. Even if Witango 6 finally came out, which doesn't  
seem likely, it is so far behind other languages. It is still buggy  
and lacking so many features that are found in other languages. Not  
only that, once you move on, you find so many OTHER aspects that you  
were missing in witango, that the cool studio just won't blow your  
skirt up anymore.


I would have loved to have at least purchased the v6 studio for some  
of my old clients that are not worth porting to php, and one client  
that doesn't have the budget yet to port. I am actually debating  
porting some of those smaller clients/sites over to php at my own  
expense. It would be worth not having to continue to manage the old  
witango servers, and go through the crazy hoops to keep a 5.5 studio  
working.


We have built a pretty big framework for porting over witango  to  
php. I have thought about writing an app in RB to convert witango to  
php. It is definitely something I could do, but where is the market?  
In order to make my money back I would have to sell it for way too  
much money. The witango community has dwindled down to almost  
nothing. Even if witango v6 was released, at this point, I don't  
think it has any chance of survival. Even if Phil and Sophie just  
gave it to the community as open source, I don't think it could  
survive. And I mean REAL open source, not the open source they  
referred to previously with version 6. That is not open source. It  
is just a way to get somebody else to do their dev for free, yet  
they still make the money. No Thanks.


--

Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

On Oct 18, 2008, at 10:59 PM, D. Richardy wrote:


Phil, Sophie;

we, the community love Witango (formely Tango) and we love to use it.

Tell us a price to buying the source and to make TANGO as open  
source project.


regards from Europe

Daniel Richardy

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Non-notable product

[Scott Cadillac]

That's just plain sad.

Scott,




On Oct-19-2008, at 12:13 AM, Anthony M. Humphreys wrote:

Deleted from Wiki because it's been deemed to have become a non- 
notable product.

Ouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witango


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: 304 last-modified

[Scott Cadillac]

Well if it's just for Googlebot that's not so bad.

HTTP caching with users and browsers is a @#%&'n nightmare.

If your tango code can capture the "If-Modified-Since" date value,  
then you could be in business. You just return that value as your Last- 
Modified and give a 304 status - and not return any body contents.


Also if Google is supplying a "If-None-Match" value (unlikely in this  
case), then return that as your ETag value.


I'd experiment first.

Keep in mind your tango code still has to interact with Googlebot, so  
there will always be some degree of a performance hit.


ASP.NET does have a nice HTTP caching component built right into the  
system, it's just a simple matter of setting some attributes on the  
Page directives - but still, it can really get in the way sometimes.


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Aug-22-2008, at 12:33 PM, WebDude wrote:


Thanks, Scott,

Yeah, I thought it was going to be complicated ;-/ I actually was  
looking at
ASP and PHP code to see if I could write something in Witango that  
would

kind of do the same thing.

I was looking at this from a Googlebot point of view. When Gbot  
comes, if
the requested page hasn't been modified since the last request it  
won't

crawl the page. Google recommends that you use this...

"You should configure your server to return this response (called the
If-Modified-Since HTTP header) when a page hasn't changed since the  
last

time the requestor asked for it. This saves you bandwidth and overhead
because your server can tell Googlebot that a page hasn't changed  
since the

last time it was crawled."

'Dude


-Original Message-
From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:51 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: 304 last-modified

Hey Dude,

Unfortunately HTTP caching takes a lot more consideration than just  
globally

setting a custom HTTP response header.

When you set a custom header for caching purposes, this process is  
entirely
dependent on receiving some specific request HTTP header properties  
(i.e.,
If-Modified-Since and/or If-None-Match), in order to conditionally  
set a

corresponding expiry date, an ETag number and a
304 response (for the subsequent responses), as opposed to the  
custom 200
response (on the first response). And depending on the version of  
tango you

are running - you may not have access to these HTTP properties.

In addition, HTTP caching is managed by matching the entire URL of  
the file
in question, this includes the argument names and values, so if your  
GET

arguments are changing, then your caching is overridden. POST requests
generally always override cache checks as well.

And of course it should be mentioned that although browsers and  
proxies do
adhere to the HTTP standards, these applications and devices are  
sometimes

unpredictable as to "when" they implement cache rules.

I've built systems with HTTP caching, and I hope I can save you some  
time by
giving you some advice - don't bother. The headache,  
unpredictability and
limited results is usually not worth it. There'll be times where you  
can
easily waste hours chasing your code in circles just to discover  
that all
the bugs and weird behavior is the result of something happening off  
the

server (where you have no control).

I would recommend you pursue methods for caching whatever essential  
data you
need in memory on the Server to save on performance issues - or  
check out

load balancing. Or possibly an appliance of some kind that handles the
caching outside of your server.

And please note, your tango code example is for deliberately turning  
"off"

caching.

I hope this helps, good luck.

Scott,




On Aug-22-2008, at 10:55 AM, WebDude wrote:


Hi All,

I am a bit confused as to how to implement a caching scheme in  
which I

can show whether or not a page has been updated or not. This is for a
forum that stores the last update by date. I would like to change the
response http to show the last-modified date if possible.
Unfortunately, I am a novice on http headers and would like some help
on how to implement this. If I set the expiry to

<@ASSIGN Local$httpHeader VALUE="Content-Type: text/html<@CRLF>Cache-
Control: no-cache, max-age=0, must-revalidate,proxy
revalidate<@CRLF>Pragma: no-
cache<@CRLF><@USERREFERENCECOOKIE><@CRLF>">

Will this generat what I need for the request? I am looking for the
reponse to be something like this...

HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Content-Location: http://www.xyz.taf
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:22:39 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Last-Modified: Wed, 020 Aug 2008 13:30:23 GMT
ETag: "801395163ec21:8a9"
Content-Length: 751

And I am confused as to the ETag.

Can I set this globally for all tafs? or would that re

Re: Witango-Talk: 304 last-modified

[Scott Cadillac]

Hey Dude,

Unfortunately HTTP caching takes a lot more consideration than just  
globally setting a custom HTTP response header.


When you set a custom header for caching purposes, this process is  
entirely dependent on receiving some specific request HTTP header  
properties (i.e., If-Modified-Since and/or If-None-Match), in order to  
conditionally set a corresponding expiry date, an ETag number and a  
304 response (for the subsequent responses), as opposed to the custom  
200 response (on the first response). And depending on the version of  
tango you are running - you may not have access to these HTTP  
properties.


In addition, HTTP caching is managed by matching the entire URL of the  
file in question, this includes the argument names and values, so if  
your GET arguments are changing, then your caching is overridden. POST  
requests generally always override cache checks as well.


And of course it should be mentioned that although browsers and  
proxies do adhere to the HTTP standards, these applications and  
devices are sometimes unpredictable as to "when" they implement cache  
rules.


I've built systems with HTTP caching, and I hope I can save you some  
time by giving you some advice - don't bother. The headache,  
unpredictability and limited results is usually not worth it. There'll  
be times where you can easily waste hours chasing your code in circles  
just to discover that all the bugs and weird behavior is the result of  
something happening off the server (where you have no control).


I would recommend you pursue methods for caching whatever essential  
data you need in memory on the Server to save on performance issues -  
or check out load balancing. Or possibly an appliance of some kind  
that handles the caching outside of your server.


And please note, your tango code example is for deliberately turning  
"off" caching.


I hope this helps, good luck.

Scott,




On Aug-22-2008, at 10:55 AM, WebDude wrote:


Hi All,

I am a bit confused as to how to implement a caching scheme in which  
I can show whether or not a page has been updated or not. This is  
for a forum that stores the last update by date. I would like to  
change the response http to show the last-modified date if possible.  
Unfortunately, I am a novice on http headers and would like some  
help on how to implement this. If I set the expiry to


<@ASSIGN Local$httpHeader VALUE="Content-Type: text/html<@CRLF>Cache- 
Control: no-cache, max-age=0, must-revalidate,proxy  
revalidate<@CRLF>Pragma: no- 
cache<@CRLF><@USERREFERENCECOOKIE><@CRLF>">


Will this generat what I need for the request? I am looking for the  
reponse to be something like this...


HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Content-Location: http://www.xyz.taf
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:22:39 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Last-Modified: Wed, 020 Aug 2008 13:30:23 GMT
ETag: "801395163ec21:8a9"
Content-Length: 751

And I am confused as to the ETag.

Can I set this globally for all tafs? or would that really take a  
performance hit?


Can someone shed some light on this, please?

Thanks!




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: OT: detecting country of origin

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Ian,

The most reliable source is the registries themselves, listed on the  
following link


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_IP_database

Put consolidating this information from the different sources yourself  
is a pain (not to mention ongoing changes), which is why most people  
use a provider that has done this for you. There are many to choose  
from (free and paid). The reliability comes from keeping your database  
up to date.


http://www.google.com/search?q=ip+to+country

A good IP database will have the 4 segment IP addresses converted into  
whole numbers for you, then you just search on the number. Using a  
single whole number for an IP allows you do to ranges.


To convert a visitor's IP address to a number, you break apart the 4  
segments (octets) of the IP address and then do some math to get a  
unique whole number.


So my IP address is: 24.222.203.202

Which converts to the following math: (24 * 16777216) + (222 * 65536)  
+ (203 * 256) + (202)


Which equals: 417254346

Your database table would look something like the following:

http://www.xmlx.net/stuff/ip-to-country.png

I usually just put the math part in a stored procedure that searches  
the table for me, works great.


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Aug-16-2008, at 11:10 AM, Ian Daniel wrote:

While we're on the subject ... where can one obtain the most  
reliable IP
address / country of origin list, to build this intelligence into a  
project?



Thanks in advance ...
Ian


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: OT: detecting country of origin

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Roland,

If the location is revealed by the proxy, then that must be a feature  
unique to that particular proxy (this is not typical) so I would not  
expect all proxys to provide this for you.


Have you tried an HTTP sniffer yet, to see the request information?  
There might be a custom property like x-originating-ip or something.


Hope it works out for you.

Scott,




On Aug-16-2008, at 7:40 AM, Roland Dumas wrote:

A friend who wanted to go to a site that does not allow US visitors,  
used a proxy service located in the UK. The site knew his browser  
was coming from the US. I had him hit my server using the proxy, and  
it shows an IP from Germany.   Somehow the proxy does change the IP,  
but still reveals the location - somehow. That intrigued me, and now  
we're looking for what it may be using to detect country of origin.


On Aug 15, 2008, at 6:06 PM, Robert Garcia wrote:


It can't

--
Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
VP Application Development - eventpix.com
13653 West Park Dr
Magalia, Ca 95954
ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/

On Aug 15, 2008, at 5:22 PM, Roland Dumas wrote:

How can a server detect the country of origin of a browser when  
the browser is set up to go through a proxy in a different country?


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Observations on Survey results

[Scott Cadillac]

Thank you Ian, and others for your gratitude but I actually did very  
little.


It was the people who took time to respond that made it all happen.

Nice to hear from you Ian, take care.

Scott,




On Aug-6-2008, at 2:52 PM, Ian Daniel wrote:


Nice piece of work, Scott.

On behalf of all of us, thank you ...

By the way, 49 responses within a day is absolutely excellent for  
this type
of survey.  And, it's not totally indicative of the number of  
developers.
Meaning, I'm sure that I was the only one of several at my company  
that
responded, and lots of individual programmers are too busy on  
projects to

respond.

On the subject of open source, I am convinced that Phil intends to  
follow
through in making the product into something that will sustain life  
well
into the future.  I'm also certain that legalities contribute to  
slowing
that process down, especially in the realm of international  
copyright law.


On the subject of programming languages, we are all well-advised to be
conversant in 2-3 languages, and the two other languages that, in my
experience, open the most doors, are .NET and PHP.  I have come  
across many
companies that insist on one of those, but I only hear an insistence  
on Java
in utilities, banks and government.  I dislike those environments,  
due to

the typically long sales cycle involved.

As for availability of Witango programmers, I can hire a  
proficient .NET

programmer, and within about 3 concentrated days, they will be 90%
conversant with Witango, because of its programming constructs and  
visual

development interface.  The converse is not true.

Just thoughts ... and also thought it was time for me to post  
something,

so's you all don't think I bailed.

Over and out,
Ian



-Original Message-
From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:39 AM
To: Witango-Talk
Subject: Witango-Talk: Observations on Survey results

Hi All,

The survey has reached 49 responses, a very respectable number.
Congratulations everyone.

http://freeonlinesurveys.com/viewresults.asp?c=x4jovb5l0cv4h6y469661

Note, I think the survey system only lets you see the first 50  
responses.

For more you have to buy a monthly subscription.

An observation that I think is interesting, is that the number of  
people
coding on a particular platform for their Editor/Studio does not  
directly
match the Server platform they deploy to. As well, the majority of  
choice
for an alternate technology platform (Linux) also do not match the  
platform

most considered stable for Witango (Windows).

I think what that says is that Witango programmers are less  
concerned about
the Operating System they use, and more interested in stability and  
options.
Personally I think that's a great attribute for a good programmer or  
service
provider - by focusing on the solution and not letting yourself get  
hung up
on the logistics. Of course, some might say the same should be said  
about

our choice of programming languages too.

Also, I see the interest in Java based options (both current and as an
alternate technology) being very low - yet, a lot of people are  
planning to
move to version 6 which is apparently java-based. Does that mean we  
trust
Java more as an application platform than as a coding environment?  
Just

curious.

In hindsight I know I could have worded things a little differently,  
but
mostly I wish I had added another option for Question 10 (What do  
you use or
see as a workable transition platform?) as "Not interested in moving  
away
from Witango". But for being a spur of the moment thing, I think it  
all

worked out pretty well. Thank you.

Take care.

Scott,




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Witango-Talk: Observations on Survey results

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi All,

The survey has reached 49 responses, a very respectable number.  
Congratulations everyone.


http://freeonlinesurveys.com/viewresults.asp?c=x4jovb5l0cv4h6y469661

Note, I think the survey system only lets you see the first 50  
responses. For more you have to buy a monthly subscription.


An observation that I think is interesting, is that the number of  
people coding on a particular platform for their Editor/Studio does  
not directly match the Server platform they deploy to. As well, the  
majority of choice for an alternate technology platform (Linux) also  
do not match the platform most considered stable for Witango (Windows).


I think what that says is that Witango programmers are less concerned  
about the Operating System they use, and more interested in stability  
and options. Personally I think that's a great attribute for a good  
programmer or service provider - by focusing on the solution and not  
letting yourself get hung up on the logistics. Of course, some might  
say the same should be said about our choice of programming languages  
too.


Also, I see the interest in Java based options (both current and as an  
alternate technology) being very low - yet, a lot of people are  
planning to move to version 6 which is apparently java-based. Does  
that mean we trust Java more as an application platform than as a  
coding environment? Just curious.


In hindsight I know I could have worded things a little differently,  
but mostly I wish I had added another option for Question 10 (What do  
you use or see as a workable transition platform?) as "Not interested  
in moving away from Witango". But for being a spur of the moment  
thing, I think it all worked out pretty well. Thank you.


Take care.

Scott,




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: RSS

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Wayne,

Yes, basically RSS is just specially formatted XML being served up  
(dynamically or statically) by a normal webserver using HTTP.


The RSS feed spec is a moving target, but the following link is  
considered the most authoritative. It was written by Dave Winer (the  
so-called inventor)


http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/rss/rss.html

But be mindful of the numerous extensions and namespaces that have  
been added over the years by others that came late to the party.  
Unfortunately I don't think there is any one source for these extras.


After working on several projects that involve RSS feeds (not readers)  
I would just say pay particular attention to how you assign your  
"Date" elements by testing your feed with several of the popular news  
readers - because when the dates are not set properly, your feed can  
appear duplicated in some readers or continuously get re-flagged as  
"new". This will be the most common complaint of subscribers to your  
feed.


If you have a news reader already, get a HTTP sniffer utility of some  
kind and watch the incoming RSS XML when the reader is updating. This  
will give you some great example XML to work from. I recommend http://www.fiddler2.com/ 
 if you're on Windows. I recently came across http://www.charlesproxy.com/ 
 for Mac, but haven't tried it yet.


As well, if you're on Windows, I would recommend http://www.rssbandit.org/ 
 as a great reader for testing. This project is maintained by Dare  
Obasanjo, considered one of the top XML people at Microsoft. Plus I  
think the help documentation for this product comes with some RSS spec  
information (I think, it's been awhile since I installed it).


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 10:21 PM, Wayne Irvine wrote:


On 06/08/2008, at 11:11 AM, Stefan Gonick wrote:


If you are talking about generating an RSS feed, then I can't help  
you. :)


It's funny, my Google of RSS resulted in a load of Reader responses  
but very little in the way of Publishing.


It is actually publishing I am interested in.

Cheers

Wayne

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Programmer Survey

[Scott Cadillac]

Good question Chuck,

I considered putting in options for Virtual Machine users (like  
myself, I use Mac now, but run Visual Studio in VMWare on Windows),  
but I  thought that complicated things unnecessarily.


Your Editor is still either a windows or mac version - how you run  
your operating system should be a whole different topic.


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 2:09 PM, Chuck Leavens wrote:

Well, I am a mac user, and use all windows for witango, the rare  
times I have to fix old sites. Mac versions just don't work, I use  
windows editor on mac VM.




and would that not affect the mac user count?

--
Thanks,

Chuck

Chuck Leavens Director of Engineering and IT Management
WDUQ-FM  Duquesne University  Pittsburgh PA 15282
412-396-5508 Direct
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Programmer Survey

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Janet,

You can see the results here

http://freeonlinesurveys.com/viewresults.asp?c=x4jovb5l0cv4h6y469661

Over 30 responses so far, that's pretty good. And interesting data as  
well.


Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 1:15 PM, janet wrote:


I filled out the survey.
Thank you
Looking forward to the results.
Janet Case

-Original Message-
From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:30 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Programmer Survey

Hi Stefan,

Thank you. There's a few things I thought about changing afterwards,
but I don't want to mess with it now that it's started collecting  
data.


Hopefully people will take the time to fill in the "Other" option
field with this kind of information.

Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 12:22 PM, Stefan Gonick wrote:


Hi Scott,

I filled out your survey. Thanks for doing that. May I suggest that
you add
ColdFusion and Ruby on Rails to your list of transition
technologies? I
think that those 2 may be fairly popular.

Warm regards,
Stefan

From: Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:43 AM
To: Witango-Talk 
Subject: SPAM-MED: Witango-Talk: Programmer Survey

This poll is informal, anonymous and just for curiosity purposes.

http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?
sid=pfih6m7nyni0c8n469661

It doesn't look like I can make the results public just yet (without
purchasing a monthly subscription), but I'll figure out a way to
distribute it - or feel free to contact me anytime.

Thanks.

Scott Cadillac
~ 902-624-1266
~ http://www.xmlx.net/






TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Programmer Survey

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Stefan,

Thank you. There's a few things I thought about changing afterwards,  
but I don't want to mess with it now that it's started collecting data.


Hopefully people will take the time to fill in the "Other" option  
field with this kind of information.


Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 12:22 PM, Stefan Gonick wrote:


Hi Scott,

I filled out your survey. Thanks for doing that. May I suggest that  
you add
ColdFusion and Ruby on Rails to your list of transition  
technologies? I

think that those 2 may be fairly popular.

Warm regards,
Stefan

From: Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:43 AM
To: Witango-Talk 
Subject: SPAM-MED: Witango-Talk: Programmer Survey

This poll is informal, anonymous and just for curiosity purposes.

http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp? 
sid=pfih6m7nyni0c8n469661


It doesn't look like I can make the results public just yet (without
purchasing a monthly subscription), but I'll figure out a way to
distribute it - or feel free to contact me anytime.

Thanks.

Scott Cadillac
~ 902-624-1266
~ http://www.xmlx.net/






TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Programmer Survey (results link)

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi all,

I think this is where to see the results.

http://freeonlinesurveys.com/viewresults.asp?c=x4jovb5l0cv4h6y469661

Let me know if anybody has any problems.

Thanks.

Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 10:42 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:


This poll is informal, anonymous and just for curiosity purposes.

http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp? 
sid=pfih6m7nyni0c8n469661


It doesn't look like I can make the results public just yet (without  
purchasing a monthly subscription), but I'll figure out a way to  
distribute it - or feel free to contact me anytime.


Thanks.

Scott Cadillac
~ 902-624-1266
~ http://www.xmlx.net/






TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Witango-Talk: Programmer Survey

[Scott Cadillac]

This poll is informal, anonymous and just for curiosity purposes.

http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=pfih6m7nyni0c8n469661

It doesn't look like I can make the results public just yet (without  
purchasing a monthly subscription), but I'll figure out a way to  
distribute it - or feel free to contact me anytime.


Thanks.

Scott Cadillac
~ 902-624-1266
~ http://www.xmlx.net/






TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]]

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll sign-up and post a link.

Are there any other questions to ask?

Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 9:50 AM, Bill Downall wrote:




On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 8:34 AM, Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Good question Rick,

Maybe someone should setup an anonymous Poll somewhere? I'd be very  
curious to see the results. Although I do know more than one  
customer running a large number of Windows servers with Witango.


Another list I subscribe to just did something similar through  
freeonlinesurveys.com


This is not a recommendation or endorsement, but it looked pretty  
easy. And it's much easier to organize the results than combing  
through everyone's email responses.



Bill

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]]

[Scott Cadillac]

Oh, and something like:

How often do you use Witango?
~ Everyday, all my projects
~ About half of my projects
~ At least once a year
~ No longer code in Witango, I just hang out on the list to annoy  
people or because I can't help myself (check)



Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 9:34 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:


Good question Rick,

Maybe someone should setup an anonymous Poll somewhere? I'd be very  
curious to see the results. Although I do know more than one  
customer running a large number of Windows servers with Witango.


What are some good questions to ask?

What version are you using?
- 3.x
- 4.x/2000
- 5.0
- 5.5

What platform is your Editor?
- Windows
- Mac

Are you using the Java Compiler?
- Yes
- No

What platform is your server?
- Windows
- Mac
- Linux
- Solaris

How many servers do you run?
- 1
- 2~5
- 6~10
- 11~20
- 20+

Just a thought...

Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 9:22 AM, Rick Sanders wrote:

Is it just me, or does it seem that a large portion of the existing  
WiTango user base is using the Macintosh platform?



Rick Sanders
Webenergy
Canada: 902-431-7279
USA:   919-799-9076
Canada: www.webenergy.ca
USA:   www.webenergyusa.com

-Original Message-
From: Dan Stein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: August-05-08 9:10 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]]

I have found that to be the case also but a monthly update to the  
community

would be very important.
--
Dan Stein
FileMaker 7 Certified Developer
Digital Software Solutions
799 Evergreen Circle
Telford PA 18969
Land: 215-799-0192
Cell: 610-256-2843
Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st)
FMP, WiTango, EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.dss-db.com

"The love of one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love  
stop at

the border? "

Pablo Casals




From: Mikal Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "witango-talk@witango.com" 
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:54:31 -0700
To: "witango-talk@witango.com" 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]]


Delays are understandable
and part of the business, but communication is essential.
At least a monthly communication would go a long way
with the development community and I know I"m not
alone in this feeling.


Agreed. Phil does however answer his phone & will reply to your  
email.


Mikal Anderson
PDX


On 8/4/2008 9:29 PM, John Carrieri wrote:

Hi Christian,

I too have used witango for 11 years which is hard
to believe and also initially on a APPLE AWS 8550. When
we first started jokes.com (since sold too Comedy Central/
it sucks now despite the fact that they have still stayed in #1
position on goog) we had three front ends and one back end
running Butler and we made it work serving millions of viewers!
Since I've used tango / witango on everything from Enterprise level
Sun servers to the latest Xserves. Through all of this it has been
extremely stable through a decade of use, with the exception of  
running

it under 10.5. While I have used it on Mac and Sun platforms
I always appreciated that it could also run on Windows and
later Linux. Put quite simply it is a great flexible platform.

I understand the challenges that Witango must have as
a small company, with a complex product, but they need
to communicate to their customers. Delays are understandable
and part of the business, but communication is essential.
At least a monthly communication would go a long way
with the development community and I know I"m not
alone in this feeling.

Please, please communicate with us. I think that is all
anyone is asking.

Sincerely,
John



On 8/4/08 8:52 PM, "Christian Platt"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

wrote:


It would be easy to post this message to the list.

Or at least a person who is in connection with will could make the
communication with the still existing community.

I do not know, how many peaple are still on the list or using  
witango.


I checked that this is my 11th year since starting With Butler/ 
Tango

on an APPLE AWS 8550.

It would be interesting to know, how many people are still using/
developing Witango

Christian


Am 04.08.2008 um 21:34 schrieb Mikal Anderson:


Below is latest from Phil.
 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 09:57:07 +1000
From: Phil Wade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mikal Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



Mikal,
The major issue we have is that we have to make sure that the  
code

is OK to go open source and the license protects WT's rights.
Without these being finished we cannot release. We were also
advised to not issue any more betas until this was completed.  
When

the lawyers give us the OK we will get it out.


Regards

Phil

On August 1st, 2008, at 4:37 AM, Mikal Anderson wrote:


Phil, the list has not heard a peep from you. What's up with
version 6?

Mikal Anderson
PDX

Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]]

[Scott Cadillac]

Good question Rick,

Maybe someone should setup an anonymous Poll somewhere? I'd be very  
curious to see the results. Although I do know more than one customer  
running a large number of Windows servers with Witango.


What are some good questions to ask?

What version are you using?
- 3.x
- 4.x/2000
- 5.0
- 5.5

What platform is your Editor?
- Windows
- Mac

Are you using the Java Compiler?
- Yes
- No

What platform is your server?
- Windows
- Mac
- Linux
- Solaris

How many servers do you run?
- 1
- 2~5
- 6~10
- 11~20
- 20+

Just a thought...

Scott,




On Aug-5-2008, at 9:22 AM, Rick Sanders wrote:

Is it just me, or does it seem that a large portion of the existing  
WiTango user base is using the Macintosh platform?



Rick Sanders
Webenergy
Canada: 902-431-7279
USA:   919-799-9076
Canada: www.webenergy.ca
USA:   www.webenergyusa.com

-Original Message-
From: Dan Stein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: August-05-08 9:10 AM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]]

I have found that to be the case also but a monthly update to the  
community

would be very important.
--
Dan Stein
FileMaker 7 Certified Developer
Digital Software Solutions
799 Evergreen Circle
Telford PA 18969
Land: 215-799-0192
Cell: 610-256-2843
Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st)
FMP, WiTango, EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.dss-db.com

"The love of one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love  
stop at

the border? "

Pablo Casals




From: Mikal Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "witango-talk@witango.com" 
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:54:31 -0700
To: "witango-talk@witango.com" 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]]


Delays are understandable
and part of the business, but communication is essential.
At least a monthly communication would go a long way
with the development community and I know I"m not
alone in this feeling.


Agreed. Phil does however answer his phone & will reply to your  
email.


Mikal Anderson
PDX


On 8/4/2008 9:29 PM, John Carrieri wrote:

Hi Christian,

I too have used witango for 11 years which is hard
to believe and also initially on a APPLE AWS 8550. When
we first started jokes.com (since sold too Comedy Central/
it sucks now despite the fact that they have still stayed in #1
position on goog) we had three front ends and one back end
running Butler and we made it work serving millions of viewers!
Since I've used tango / witango on everything from Enterprise level
Sun servers to the latest Xserves. Through all of this it has been
extremely stable through a decade of use, with the exception of  
running

it under 10.5. While I have used it on Mac and Sun platforms
I always appreciated that it could also run on Windows and
later Linux. Put quite simply it is a great flexible platform.

I understand the challenges that Witango must have as
a small company, with a complex product, but they need
to communicate to their customers. Delays are understandable
and part of the business, but communication is essential.
At least a monthly communication would go a long way
with the development community and I know I"m not
alone in this feeling.

Please, please communicate with us. I think that is all
anyone is asking.

Sincerely,
John



On 8/4/08 8:52 PM, "Christian Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:


It would be easy to post this message to the list.

Or at least a person who is in connection with will could make the
communication with the still existing community.

I do not know, how many peaple are still on the list or using  
witango.


I checked that this is my 11th year since starting With Butler/ 
Tango

on an APPLE AWS 8550.

It would be interesting to know, how many people are still using/
developing Witango

Christian


Am 04.08.2008 um 21:34 schrieb Mikal Anderson:


Below is latest from Phil.
 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Witango-Talk: Version 6?]
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 09:57:07 +1000
From: Phil Wade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mikal Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



Mikal,
The major issue we have is that we have to make sure that the code
is OK to go open source and the license protects WT's rights.
Without these being finished we cannot release. We were also
advised to not issue any more betas until this was completed. When
the lawyers give us the OK we will get it out.


Regards

Phil

On August 1st, 2008, at 4:37 AM, Mikal Anderson wrote:


Phil, the list has not heard a peep from you. What's up with
version 6?

Mikal Anderson
PDX


 Original Message 
Subject: Witango-Talk: Version 6?
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:27:00 -0400
From: Stefan Gonick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: witango-talk@witango.com
To: witango-talk@witango.com



A while back someone predicted that version 6 was coming out last
week,
though it was obviously not from With. Was that a completely
mistaken
notion, or was there something to it? Is version 6 coming out any
time soon?

Re: Witango-Talk: Version 6? (With != Witango)

[Scott Cadillac]

> I also read the list and am as frustrated as anyone else with
> the lack of support and communication from With

Maybe that's because these criticism (and maybe some emails) are  
directed at the wrong people?


Before things start getting negative and moody again, it should be  
pointed out again that "With" is not associated with Witango - and  
hasn't been for more than a few years.


I don't know all the intimate legalities and history of course, but  
from what I remember, when Phil first purchased Tango "With  
Imagination" was the name of the company he was operating under. But  
that company was eventually split into "service" and "product"  
branches and the service part was sold along with the name "With". I  
don't remember the date exactly, but I think it was only a year or two  
after Phil acquired Witango.


Witango is owned and managed under "Witango Technologies", a separate  
company, a different website, a different email domain and even  
located in a different city than "With" - and naturally both companies  
are run by different people.


Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Aug-4-2008, at 8:58 AM, Wolf, Gene wrote:

I also read the list and am as frustrated as anyone else with the  
lack of support and communication from With. This lack of  
communication and news on the product is one of the reasons my  
company has decided to move away from Witango. It's hard to defend a  
product to management types when you don't hear about it, no one  
seems to be using it and the only real support you can contact are  
the people on this list and a semi-searchable e-mail archive.


Has anyone thought of suggesting to a larger company, like Apple or  
Oracle, that they look at Witango as an acquisition? We are moving  
to Oracle and in the training I have taken so far their reporting  
and programming tools are far from the power Witango provides. Yes,  
I know Witango is supposed to be going open source but, to me  
anyway, it seems like another dead end. I mean, six months with no  
word? Even if things are running into roadblocks, which always seems  
to happen, at least there could be monthly communication stating  
that fact.


Some of us must have contacts within larger companies that might be  
able to get them to at least look at Witango and evaluate it. Some  
company other than Pervasive that is. *grins* If Apple or Oracle  
picked up Witango I imagine within a relatively short time we'd see  
improvements, additional functionality, and communications. It would  
also make it much, much easier to sell to customers (I consider my  
management a customer) if we could say, "Witango is an Apple (or  
place your large company name here) product."


Just a thought.

From: Rick Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:48 PM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Version 6?

I can understand everyone’s frustration in this regard. Although I  
don’t post much, I do read emails on the list.
Communication is very important, and because of the lack of  
communication unfortunately many people have left the WiTango  
technology.


I can only hope that the delay is because of something really good  
on the horizon. I don’t know how WiTango sales have been, or how  
much interest there is in the community, but I hope it’s enough to  
keep WiTango going.



Rick Sanders
Webenergy
Canada: 902-431-7279
USA:   919-799-9076
Canada: www.webenergy.ca
USA:   www.webenergyusa.com

From: Dan Stein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: July-31-08 5:34 PM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Version 6?

I have sent three back channel emails maybe more email to customer  
support will get a response. But I agree communication keep  
declining and I fail to understand why that is. I still love the  
product and even if 6 never came out I would continue with 5.5 but  
it is a reasonable request from the community that we be kept in the  
loop. Last we heard there were just a few legal issues to resolve  
with open source license but then nothing. It has been since  
2/11/2008 since we had the last official word. 6 months.


Dan
--
Dan Stein
FileMaker 7 Certified Developer
FileMaker 9 Certified Developer
Digital Software Solutions
799 Evergreen Circle
Telford PA 18969
Land: 215-799-0192
Cell: 610-256-2843
Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st)
FMP, WiTango, EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.dss-db.com


"When you are born, you cry and those who love you rejoice.  And  
if you

live your life as you should, when you die, you rejoice and those who
love you cry."

From: Jonah Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "witango-talk@witango.com" 
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:00:02 -0600
To: "witango-talk@witango.com" 
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Version 6?


Sorry, should have put a

 tag around my "one week" email.  I was only echoing the  
latest information we received... which was months ago.


I like Witango and the company that makes it, but the communicati

Re: Witango-Talk: Revisiting http headers

[Scott Cadillac]

Hey Dude,

Remember, IIS handles the request before Tango does, so technically  
speaking IIS did find your page, otherwise the TAF would not have  
executed your code.


What counts is that the browser got a 404 response from the server.

Hope that helps.

Scott,




On Jul-1-2008, at 1:21 PM, WebDude wrote:

I understand that when I assign this to the "not found" file, it  
works correctly when the actual file does not exist. However, is it  
possible to get this to work on a no results page? I tried this at  
the head of a no results page, yet IIS5 logs show it as being found.  
Any way around this? This is what I have...


<@purgeresults><@assign httpheader "HTTP/1.0 404 Not  
Found<@CRLF><@CRLF>" scope=local>


Thanks!



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: List "you can checkout anytime you want, but you can never leave"

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Dan,

Scott your roots are showing. I bet you did not even have to listen  
to the

song to remember all that.



True to a large degree, but of course my age is really showing now  
because my memory failed me on some parts so I had to google for the  
rest


I did actually tour with Bernie Leadon (founding member of the Eagles)  
in '87 or '88 when he was with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band (I was the  
stage lighting operator). But that's as close as I get to the song.


See, there I go living in the past again, or was that feeding my ego?  
I'm getting so old I can't tell anymore...I guess both, eh?


Scott,


On May-8-2008, at 10:33 AM, Dan Stein wrote:

Scott your roots are showing. I bet you did not even have to listen  
to the

song to remember all that.

Dan



From: Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "witango-talk@witango.com" 
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:59:40 -0300
To: "witango-talk@witango.com" 
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: List "you can checkout anytime you want,  
but you

can never leave"

There's a lot to be said about your analogy Ben,

"...So I called up the Captain, 'Please bring me my wine'
He said, 'We haven't had that spirit here since nineteen sixty nine'
And still those voices are calling from far away..."

(us, living in the past?)

"...Last thing I remember, I was Running for the door
I had to find the passage back To the place I was before
'Relax,' said the Night Man, 'We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like, But you can never leave!'..."

(us, feeding our egos?)

So which one of us is the Captain and which is the Night Man?

Because I'd really like to have a talk with both of these guys (or
girls) :-\

Scott,





On May-8-2008, at 9:30 AM, Michael R. Young wrote:


How true it is!
Mike

From: Ben Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:37 PM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: going green

Hey, Bill, this list is like Hotel California...

"you can checkout anytime you want, but you can never leave"

Take Care

Ben

On May 6, 2008, at 3:43 PM, William M Conlon wrote:


Hi all,

I'll be leaving the software world and returning to my roots in the
energy business at Ausra, a startup here in Palo Alto.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and help over the years.

Best of Luck!


Bill

William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D.
To the Point
2330 Bryant Street
Palo Alto, CA 94301
  vox:  650.327.2175 (direct)
  fax:  650.329.8335
mobile:  650.906.9929
e-mail:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  web:  http://www.tothept.com




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: going green

[Scott Cadillac]

All the best Bill, you're heading in the right direction!

I'm green with envy ;-)

Scott,




On May-6-2008, at 7:43 PM, William M Conlon wrote:


Hi all,

I'll be leaving the software world and returning to my roots in the  
energy business at Ausra, a startup here in Palo Alto.


Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and help over the years.

Best of Luck!


Bill

William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D.
To the Point
2330 Bryant Street
Palo Alto, CA 94301
   vox:  650.327.2175 (direct)
   fax:  650.329.8335
mobile:  650.906.9929
e-mail:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   web:  http://www.tothept.com



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: List "you can checkout anytime you want, but you can never leave"

[Scott Cadillac]

There's a lot to be said about your analogy Ben,

"...So I called up the Captain, 'Please bring me my wine'
He said, 'We haven't had that spirit here since nineteen sixty nine'
And still those voices are calling from far away..."

(us, living in the past?)

"...Last thing I remember, I was Running for the door
I had to find the passage back To the place I was before
'Relax,' said the Night Man, 'We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like, But you can never leave!'..."

(us, feeding our egos?)

So which one of us is the Captain and which is the Night Man?

Because I'd really like to have a talk with both of these guys (or  
girls) :-\


Scott,





On May-8-2008, at 9:30 AM, Michael R. Young wrote:


How true it is!
Mike

From: Ben Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:37 PM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: going green

Hey, Bill, this list is like Hotel California...

"you can checkout anytime you want, but you can never leave"

Take Care

Ben

On May 6, 2008, at 3:43 PM, William M Conlon wrote:


Hi all,

I'll be leaving the software world and returning to my roots in the  
energy business at Ausra, a startup here in Palo Alto.


Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and help over the years.

Best of Luck!


Bill

William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D.
To the Point
2330 Bryant Street
Palo Alto, CA 94301
   vox:  650.327.2175 (direct)
   fax:  650.329.8335
mobile:  650.906.9929
e-mail:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   web:  http://www.tothept.com




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: image files

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Dan,

> Are others using VISTA for development machines?

When Vista first came out I bought myself a real nice high-end Dell  
desktop to run it, and did nothing but struggle with the stupid thing  
for months.


~ Visual Studio 2003 wouldn't install on it.
~ I had to wait weeks for a patch to install Visual Studio 2005, same  
with SQL 2005.

~ None of my corporate clients are using IIS 7.
~ The networking stack was a dog.
~ My high-end video card drivers kept crashing.
~ Lots of other software and driver incompatibilities.

Eventually I just repaved the hard drive and put XP on it, which runs  
flawlessly.


Personally I consider Vista another Windows ME disaster, and although  
things have apparently gotten better with Vista lately, I'm just  
skipping this version altogether.


Mind you of course, I just got myself a shiny new MacBook Pro 17" a  
couple weeks ago (high-res, the full kit, etc...) and now do most of  
my development in a Windows 2003 Server virtual machine. Nice :-)


Scott,


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: returning quoted text

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Mark,

> Sorry for not including all of this in the beginning.

No problemo amigo, so I guess your view-source just doesn't show the rest of 
your content? If it does show, try moving your variable outside the FONT 
element and see if that makes a difference.

If the content doesn't show, then it could be something funny with the 
character set and MySQL (which I have no experience with), like Ben mentioned.

Sorry, not much help. 

Scott,


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: returning quoted text

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Mark,

Are you trying to display the text in an HTML INPUT TYPE="TEXT" element? 

If so, I think you'll find it is an encoding issue. If you look at your 
view-source you'll probably see your whole text string, quotes and all, but 
they break the page display when the VALUE attribute of your INPUT encounters 
the first quote in the string.

I can't remember off the top of my shiny head, but I think you need something 
like ENCODING=HTML.

Hope that helps.

Scott,


On Thursday, April 3, 2008 3:23pm, David Mark Weiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Subject:Returning Quotes
>   Date:   April 3, 2008 11:23:01 AM PDT
>   To:   witango-talk@witango.com
> 
> OK, I have run into something I can find in the archives.
> 
> When I save a block of text and the text has a quote imbedded in it,
> like
> text text text "title" text text text.
> 
> it saves just like that in MySQL.
> 
> However when I select the field for display,
> 
> It only shows the results up to the first quote "  mark.
> 
> I have trying encoding it, but that doesn't seem to work.
> 
> I seem to remember something about double quoting or something like
> that.
> 
> In any case, my goal is to return the text and present it, AS saved,
> including the quoted text.
> 
> OSX Server
> Witango 5.5
> MySQL 5.2 04a
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Weiss
> http://trustthechildren.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: Bathysphere CrontabEdit

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert,

After many years with Northsails, Jason has moved on to another adventure.

I've emailed Wayne directly with Jason's new email address, just because I 
don't have consent to post Jason's new address publically on the list.

Hope that helps.

Scott,


On Wednesday, April 2, 2008 1:22pm, Robert Shubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Last known email address: Jason Pamental [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> If he isn't able to maintain the application, I can take it over.
> 
> Robert
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Wayne Irvine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 11:46 PM
> To: witango-talk@witango.com
> Subject: Witango-Talk: Bathysphere CrontabEdit
> 
> I've had this on my server for some time and not used it much.
> 
> Went to use it today and it adds ' retrieves entries. If I then update it appends it to the end of the line in
> crontab and brings back double ' 
> Not sure what is causing this bug as I've sure it worked previously.
> 
> Is Jason Pamental still with us? Is there a newer version of CrontabEdit?
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
>   Byte Services Pty Ltd
>http://www.byteserve.com.au/
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Ph 02 9960 6099   Mob 0409 960 609   Fax 02 9960 6088
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Feature Request: <@ISARRAY>

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert,

There is also @VARINFO

Hope that helps.

Scott,


On Monday, March 31, 2008 9:24pm, Robert Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> I believe <@calc does that, doesn't it? It returns 0 if empty, or not
> array, and num rows if it is an array. The only way, I think, to find
> out if an EMPTY var is an array, is if DEFINE was used first.
> 
> --
> 
> Robert Garcia
> President - BigHead Technology
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 13653 West Park Dr
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> On Mar 31, 2008, at 3:39 PM, William M Conlon wrote:
> 
>> I would like to have a metatag <@ISARRAY SCOPE=scope NAME=name>.
>>
>> Current workaround: ("<@NUMROWS ARRAY=name> >0" AND "<@NUMCOLS
>> ARRAY=name> > 0")
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D.
>> To the Point
>> 2330 Bryant Street
>> Palo Alto, CA 94301
>>   vox:  650.327.2175 (direct)
>>   fax:  650.329.8335
>> mobile:  650.906.9929
>> e-mail:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>   web:  http://www.tothept.com
>>
>> 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: SQL Generated Query

[Scott Cadillac]

Ahhh, but see, my memory is fuzzy. 

I was only thinking about the top half of your question. The bottom half had 
already slipped from my mind when I started typing my reply.

Man I must be getting old :-P

Scott,


On Monday, March 17, 2008 3:56pm, "Wolf, Gene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Your memory is not that fuzzy. *laughs* What you pointed out is the same
> code you get if you open a SQL window and drag a query action into it.
> However, I want to write the actual query string to a database and that
> little trick does not help. For example, if a query action have three
> vars in the criteria section and two of them are null the string
> generated completely omits those conditions. Rightly so. So I would like
> to be able to see what the SQL generated code is on every execution of a
> given query action and I'll be damned if I can find a way of doing it in
> Witango.
> 
> If Robert has requested this feature I suspect there is no way to
> currently do this in Witango.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 2:47 PM
> To: witango-talk@witango.com
> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: SQL Generated Query
> 
> Hi Gene,
> 
> If my fuzzy memory serves me correctly, if you right-click on a database
> Action, you should have an option for "SQL Query", which opens a little
> query utility that contains your generated SQL statement. I think it may
> also contain your metatags (for your WHERE clause arguments and such)
> but not the actual values.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Scott,
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 17, 2008 3:24pm, Robert Shubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> said:
> 
>> <@SQL> is populated with the last run SQL statement - except for the
>> fact that bound values are not shown, which means that you may need to
> 
>> do additional work in certain places to know what was in the bindings.
> 
>> This is my #1 request for v6.
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>   _
>>
>> From: Wolf, Gene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 2:17 PM
>> To: witango-talk@witango.com
>> Subject: Witango-Talk: SQL Generated Query
>>
>>
>>
>>Easy question. Is there any way of obtaining, from Witango, the
>> actual SQL code generated by searches? I know the code is available in
> 
>> the debug dump but It would be really handy to be able to pull a
>> variable that contains that code and be able to write it to a database
> 
>> file for testing and checking. I'd really like to be able to write
>> this code to a database table where I could record employee ID, date
> and time requested, etc.
>>
>>Thoughts on how to accomplish this?
>>
>> Gene Wolf
>> Supervisor, Business Systems
>> DRS Sensors & Targeting Systems-Optronics 2330 Commerce Park Drive NE
>> Palm Bay, Florida 32905
>> Phone: 321-309-0685
>>321-309-0202 (fax)
>>
>> Dictionary.com Word of the Day
>>  <http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/>
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/
>>
>> This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential
>> and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient.
> 
>> Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly
> prohibited.
>> If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
>> information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by
>> reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message.
>>
>> "This (document/presentation) may contain technical data as defined in
> 
>> the International Traffic In Arms Regulations (ITAR) 22 CFR 120.10.
>> Export of this material is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act
>> (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and may not be exported to foreign persons
>> without prior written approval from the U.S. Department of State."
>>
>>
>>
>> __
>> __
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
>> __
>> __ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: SQL Generated Query

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Gene,

If my fuzzy memory serves me correctly, if you right-click on a database 
Action, you should have an option for "SQL Query", which opens a little query 
utility that contains your generated SQL statement. I think it may also contain 
your metatags (for your WHERE clause arguments and such) but not the actual 
values.

Hope that helps.

Scott,



On Monday, March 17, 2008 3:24pm, Robert Shubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> <@SQL> is populated with the last run SQL statement - except for the fact
> that bound values are not shown, which means that you may need to do
> additional work in certain places to know what was in the bindings. This is
> my #1 request for v6.
> 
> 
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> 
>   _
> 
> From: Wolf, Gene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 2:17 PM
> To: witango-talk@witango.com
> Subject: Witango-Talk: SQL Generated Query
> 
> 
> 
>Easy question. Is there any way of obtaining, from Witango, the actual
> SQL code generated by searches? I know the code is available in the debug
> dump but It would be really handy to be able to pull a variable that
> contains that code and be able to write it to a database file for testing
> and checking. I'd really like to be able to write this code to a database
> table where I could record employee ID, date and time requested, etc.
> 
>Thoughts on how to accomplish this?
> 
> Gene Wolf
> Supervisor, Business Systems
> DRS Sensors & Targeting Systems-Optronics
> 2330 Commerce Park Drive NE
> Palm Bay, Florida 32905
> Phone: 321-309-0685
>321-309-0202 (fax)
> 
> Dictionary.com Word of the Day
>  
> http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/
> 
> This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and
> privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
> review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.
> If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information
> for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and
> delete all copies of this message.
> 
> "This (document/presentation) may contain technical data as defined in the
> International Traffic In Arms Regulations (ITAR) 22 CFR 120.10. Export of
> this material is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751
> et seq.) and may not be exported to foreign persons without prior written
> approval from the U.S. Department of State."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: relative speed

[Scott Cadillac]

the bulk of the lifetime of any code is not in the initial 
>> writing, but in maintenance, you are better off writing code that 
>> is descriptive and clear in its purpose than to write "fast" code 
>> in almost all cases. Only in the most rare of cases does one truly 
>> need to optimize code for speed.
>> 
>> Compiling to J2EE provides an opportunity to internally optimise 
>> code and codes structures; I don't know what With has done on this 
>> front, so you may need to roll up your sleeves and create a few 
>> test cases.
>>
>> Anthony -
>> 
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Scott Cadillac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> To:  
>> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 19:13 
>> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: relative speed
>>
>> 
>> Hi Bill,
>> 
>> If speed is all a person is concerned about, with regards to 
>> witango code, then:
>> 
>> ~ Caching is faster than not caching.
>> 
>> ~ NOT compiling to "Runtime only" is faster than compiled. 
>>
>> ~ Metatags are faster than Actions.
>> 
>> ~ TML files are faster than TAF files.
>> 
>> ~ A TAF or TML with Includes is slower than a file without any 
>> Includes.
>> 
>> ~ Branches are faster than TCF Methods.
>> 
>> ~ Lots of user scope variables are more expensive than lots of 
>> local scope variables.
>> 
>> These things are contrary to managing your code in an optimum way 
>> of course, but the reasoning can be summed up this way: 
>> 
>> Most anything that makes a programmer's job easier, makes the code 
>> run slower.
>> 
>> Compiling to J2EE is an entirely different question, because it's 
>> no longer witango. Others can give you more advice with regards to 
>> J2EE than me, but I suspect J2EE is generally faster than witango. 
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>> Scott, 
>>
>>
>> 
>> On Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:33pm, William M Conlon 
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>> 
>>> Has anyone run tests comparing the relative speed of a procedure when 
>>> implemented in actions as opposed to metatags in HTML Results? 
>>> 
>>> I would be curious to see a comparison of these two approaches for: 
>>> Non-cached
>>> cached
>>> compiled. 
>>> 
>>> To me, the action approach is more amenable to server-side speed-up, 
>>> especially when compiled for J2EE, but I would be curious to see the 
>>> difference. My bias has been to use actions for most things related 
>>> to business logic, because I think it is easier to have the logic 
>>> exposed when I crack open an old or unfamiliar file. 
>>> 
>>> But there are some corner cases, where I could go either way. And 
>>> there are some frequently-called methods that I would like to 
>>> optimize for speed.
>>>
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> _ 
>>> ___ 
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> __ 
>> __ 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
>> 
>> __ 
>> __ 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
>> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: relative speed

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Bill,

If speed is all a person is concerned about, with regards to witango code, 
then: 

~ Caching is faster than not caching.

~ NOT compiling to "Runtime only" is faster than compiled.

~ Metatags are faster than Actions.

~ TML files are faster than TAF files.

~ A TAF or TML with Includes is slower than a file without any Includes.

~ Branches are faster than TCF Methods.

~ Lots of user scope variables are more expensive than lots of local scope 
variables. 

These things are contrary to managing your code in an optimum way of course, 
but the reasoning can be summed up this way: 

Most anything that makes a programmer's job easier, makes the code run slower. 

Compiling to J2EE is an entirely different question, because it's no longer 
witango. Others can give you more advice with regards to J2EE than me, but I 
suspect J2EE is generally faster than witango. 

Hope that helps.

Scott,



On Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:33pm, William M Conlon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Has anyone run tests comparing the relative speed of a procedure when 
> implemented in actions as opposed to metatags in HTML Results?
> 
> I would be curious to see a comparison of these two approaches for: 
> Non-cached
> cached
> compiled.
> 
> To me, the action approach is more amenable to server-side speed-up, 
> especially when compiled for J2EE, but I would be curious to see the 
> difference.  My bias has been to use actions for most things related 
> to business logic, because I think it is easier to have the logic 
> exposed when I crack open an old or unfamiliar file.
> 
> But there are some corner cases, where I could go either way. And 
> there are some frequently-called methods that I would like to 
> optimize for speed.
> 
> 
> Bill
> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: getting a new userreference

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert,

That's right, you can't purge a cookie. It can only be given an empty value or 
set to expire.

I recall a couple years ago we all had a long investigative thread on this 
topic, but of course my fuzzy brain can't remember the precise outcome just 
now. But basically I think we found that the userreference cookie gets some 
special treatment in the Witango runtime that prevents tapering with the value 
(although I think there was some differences in behavior depending on your 
version of tango).

Given all the above, you can use JavaScript to remove the userreference cookie 
value (because this happens outside the witango runtime). This works very 
reliably. Once the value is removed, tango does assign a new reference number.

Hope that helps.

Scott,


On Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:31pm, Robert Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Well, there are 2 issues, but keep in mind I am going from memory.
> 
> 1. You can't gen a userreference, and you can't fake with an MD5,
> because witango uses the usereference to tie it to the correct
> instance of witango in the group.
> 
> 2. You can't use purge on cookie scope. If I remember correct, you
> have to write the cooke name with zero data. I would test to be sure,
> but I am pretty sure you assign cookie value empty string to purge it.
> Then on subsequent request, witango should assign new userref.
> 
> --
> 
> Robert Garcia
> President - BigHead Technology
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 13653 West Park Dr
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> On Mar 15, 2008, at 8:18 AM, William M Conlon wrote:
> 
>> I wrote a test taf to see what purging the various scopes would do,
>> and the USERREFERENCE is unchanged.  So to change it, I would need
>> to generate a new one to replace the cookie from the browser.
>>
>> What I was looking for was a hook into the witango USERREFERENCE
>> generation scheme.  Anyway, it's just a curiousity, I re-worked my
>> thinking.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D.
>> To the Point
>> 2330 Bryant Street
>> Palo Alto, CA 94301
>>   vox:  650.327.2175 (direct)
>>   fax:  650.329.8335
>> mobile:  650.906.9929
>> e-mail:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>   web:  http://www.tothept.com
>>
>>
>> On Mar 15, 2008, at 4:17 AM, Robert Garcia wrote:
>>
>>> I think the only way, is to CLEAR the userref cookie, and let
>>> witango gen.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Robert Garcia
>>> President - BigHead Technology
>>> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
>>> 13653 West Park Dr
>>> Magalia, Ca 95954
>>> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2008, at 5:48 PM, William M Conlon wrote:
>>>
 BUT ... userreference WAS received via cookie 'abc'

 Bill

 On Mar 14, 2008, at 5:46 PM, Ben Johansen wrote:

> NO
> in the manual
>
> If no user reference number was received
> (via the “_userReference” search argument or an HTTP cookie) when
> the application file was called, a new number is generated;
> otherwise, the
> number passed in is returned.
>
> so you clear the cookie and when you call a page without a
> userreference arg it will gen a new one
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 14, 2008, at 5:39 PM, William M Conlon wrote:
>
>> No, that would not be a NEW userreference, rather the same
>> userreference that was passed in by cookie.
>>
>> Here's the flow;
>>
>> userreference cookie 'abc' is passed to taf
>>  @@user$id and @@user$somedata is known from user reference 'abc'
>>  assign @@request$id == @@user$id
>>  purge user scope variables
>>  get new user refernence 'def'
>>  assign user$id = @@request$id and user$somedata = user's new data
>>  setcookie
>>
>> Now on subsequent requests the cookie 'def' is used
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> William M. Conlon, P.E., Ph.D.
>> To the Point
>> 2330 Bryant Street
>> Palo Alto, CA 94301
>> vox:  650.327.2175 (direct)
>> fax:  650.329.8335
>> mobile:  650.906.9929
>> e-mail:  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> web:  http://www.tothept.com
>>
>>
>> On Mar 14, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Ben Johansen wrote:
>>
>>> that would be
>>> <@USERREFERENCE>
>>>
>>> <@ASSIGN SCOPE="cookie" NAME="Witango_UserReference"
>>> VALUE="<@USERREFERENCE>">.
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2008, at 5:22 PM, William M Conlon wrote:
>>>
 I want to tear down a user's session (purging all their
 variables) and give the user a new session with new user
 variables and a new userreference.

 I'll need to <@ASSIGN SCOPE="cookie"
 NAME="Witango_UserReference" VALUE="@@request
 $newUserReference">.

 How do I generate @@request$newUserReference on th

Re: Witango-Talk: Curiuos

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Folks,

I've seen pointless stuff like this myself in the past.

I actually wonder if the objective of the spammer is just to get the URL's into 
the web statistics data of the website so that some lone Admin or owner for the 
site might on the off-chance click on one of the addresses to figure out what's 
going, and potentially score a victim - however remote the chances are.

Referrer spam works like that. Random requests to your site, with custom 
crafted referrers. Some sites used to post their referrer list for interest 
sake, but I don't see that much anymore.

Just a thought.

Scott,



On Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:15pm, Beverly Voth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> On 02/28/08 10:57 AM, "Shane Pearlman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> whole or in part:
> 
>> I've been getting the same thing for the last 2 months on one of our sites -
>> all the urls are porn. Looks like they are just trying to get their URL onto
>> the db if you ask me.
> 
> Ditto on some of our sites. I added traps for requests containing "http" (
> and a few other "key words" when I know there shouldn't be any!).
> 
> show: " You are attempting to send spam "
> abort/stop/kill/die.
> 
> :)
> 
> Beverly Voth
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: [OT] VPN Enabled Routers

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Christian,

Thank you for the note. I'm on the road at the moment (Chicago), but when I get 
back home next week I think I'm going to give the Linksys a shot. I use the 
Cisco VPN client software for connecting, so I assume that "might" mean they 
have a Cisco system?

Thank you again.

Scott,


On Monday, February 18, 2008 8:24pm, Christian Carrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Scott,
> We have used both Cisco, Sonicwall, GNAT and Checkpoint here. My question
> about what they are using is the one I feel is most important. There can be
> a lot of incompatibilities, like anything in software, so If they have Cisco
> network then I am sure the linksys will work, but I admit we haven't tried
> it. The syntax maybe harder but if they have Cisco (and probably have some
> Cisco guys there who can send over a appropriate config) I would recommend
> the new ASA firewalls which I think list at about $600. Here is some
> experience we have (all second hand but I can tell you that people tried to
> do this and it didn't work out of the box):
> Older Sonic don't seem to want to VPN to cisco
> GNAT firewalls don't want to VPN to Cisco or Sonicwall
> GNAT to Sonicwall was Iffy
> Checkpoint (expensive) to Cisco and Sonciwall works.


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: [OT] VPN Enabled Routers

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Michael,

That's two votes for the Linksys model.

Thank you.

Scott,


On Friday, February 15, 2008 9:11pm, Michael R M young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Hi Scott
> I can recommend the Linksys RV082.   10/100 8-Port VPN Router (or 4 port or
> 16 port)
> .dual Internet ports for load balancing and connection redundancy
> .Securely connects up to 100 remote office or traveling users to your
> office network via VPN
> .Advanced SPI firewall protects your PCs from most known Internet
> attacks
> I currently use it at 2 clients. I can be on all 3 networks at once, me and
> the 2 of them. You must have each client in separate subnets ie change the X
> in 192.168.X.Y.
> It has 2 WAN ports, you may not need this, but it's cool anyway.
> Runs both major types of VPN and you can have them installed on different
> sites and link them all together on the same Net. Remember, IP Links only,
> ie Remote Desktop, no NetBio browsing or Sharing.
> I am afraid I do not know about MAC VPN clients, but I understand it is not
> an issue, (I would like to know though, if anyone has the answer)!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: February 15, 2008 8:20 AM
> To: Witango-Talk
> Subject: Witango-Talk: [OT] VPN Enabled Routers
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> If anybody is so inclined, I'm looking for recommendations for a VPN enabled
> router that handles out-bound tunneling (not pass-thru).
> 
> I don't profess to be a network person, so I'll explain the best I can, so
> warning - I'm sure this post will be wordy :-b
> 
> I have a particular customer whom I've been doing periodic contract work for
> over 6 years. With them I have to use VPN client software to connect to
> their network when I deploy something or need to work on their servers.
> 
> With their particular type of VPN connection, once I do the VPN logon my
> workstation becomes a part of their network, which inherits a new IP from
> their internal LAN. Once I'm connected my workstation is unable to connect
> to my own local network. Which is highly inconvenient of course, but I can
> deal with that for the most part by running the VPN inside a virtual
> machine.
> 
> If I did all my development work on one machine I wouldn't have a problem.
> But my setup these days includes the following:
> 
> ~ A heavy-duty desktop running WinXP for the Visual Studio IDE.
> 
> ~ 6 Virtual Machines for browser testing (running on the desktop, which are
> separate machines as far as VPN is concerned).
> 
> ~ A Mac Mini for more browser testing.
> 
> ~ Another workstation with Visual Studio for my coding buddy Mark, who also
> works in my office, he's not a witango guy ;-)
> 
> ~ And a dedicated Windows 2003 Server for hosting all our code and SQL 2000
> & 2005 databases.
> 
> ~ Oh, and a 1TB Network Attached Storage device that I use for backups.
> 
> I also have 3 other computers on my local network, but those aren't used for
> work.
> 
> Anyway, since starting a recent job with this particular customer things are
> getting more involved where we need a dedicated VPN connection from both our
> workstations and now from the server (which is going to run an automated
> database sync routine we're going to build).
> 
> So, is there a router that can handle all VPN (client?) connections to my
> customer's external network? Including the following features?
> 
> ~ Automatic transparent VPN connections from any of my local machines.
> 
> ~ Still allow connections to my other network resources?
> 
> ~ Still allow inbound access to my webserver and Remote Desktop (port
> forwarding from the outside).
> 
> ~ And still allow out-bound connections to other non-customer external
> addresses (the internet).
> 
> Note, my internet service includes 5 static IP addresses, if that makes a
> difference.
> 
> So, any ideas?
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to read this.
> 
> Scott,
> 
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 
> 
>   _
> 
> << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 20965 Spam messages and set aside
> 28023 Newsletters for me
> You can use it too - and it's FREE!  www.ellaforspam.com
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: [OT] VPN Enabled Routers

[Scott Cadillac]

Thank you both Robert and John,

Both of these products look like they would solve my challenge.

When I researched on my own some of the product literature I found was either 
too vague or too over the top. 

Thanks again.

Scott,


On Friday, February 15, 2008 11:58am, Robert Shubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Scott,
> 
> I've been doing this for years with the Linksys RV082 (they make a smaller 
> and larger model as well). Simply put, they are easy and work well. I use 
> mine to connect to a Cisco PIX firewall with a high-encryption IPSEC VPN 
> tunnel.
> 
> Robert
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 8:20 AM
> To: Witango-Talk 
> Subject: Witango-Talk: [OT] VPN Enabled Routers
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> If anybody is so inclined, I'm looking for recommendations for a VPN enabled 
> router that handles out-bound tunneling (not pass-thru).
> 
> I don't profess to be a network person, so I'll explain the best I can, so 
> warning - I'm sure this post will be wordy :-b
> 
> I have a particular customer whom I've been doing periodic contract work for 
> over 6 years. With them I have to use VPN client software to connect to 
> their network when I deploy something or need to work on their servers. 
> 
> With their particular type of VPN connection, once I do the VPN logon my 
> workstation becomes a part of their network, which inherits a new IP from 
> their internal LAN. Once I'm connected my workstation is unable to connect 
> to my own local network. Which is highly inconvenient of course, but I can 
> deal with that for the most part by running the VPN inside a virtual 
> machine.
> 
> If I did all my development work on one machine I wouldn't have a problem. 
> But my setup these days includes the following:
> 
> ~ A heavy-duty desktop running WinXP for the Visual Studio IDE. 
> 
> ~ 6 Virtual Machines for browser testing (running on the desktop, which are 
> separate machines as far as VPN is concerned).
> 
> ~ A Mac Mini for more browser testing.
> 
> ~ Another workstation with Visual Studio for my coding buddy Mark, who also 
> works in my office, he's not a witango guy ;-)
> 
> ~ And a dedicated Windows 2003 Server for hosting all our code and SQL 2000 
> & 2005 databases.
> 
> ~ Oh, and a 1TB Network Attached Storage device that I use for backups. 
> 
> I also have 3 other computers on my local network, but those aren't used for 
> work.
> 
> Anyway, since starting a recent job with this particular customer things are 
> getting more involved where we need a dedicated VPN connection from both our 
> workstations and now from the server (which is going to run an automated 
> database sync routine we're going to build).
> 
> So, is there a router that can handle all VPN (client?) connections to my 
> customer's external network? Including the following features?
> 
> ~ Automatic transparent VPN connections from any of my local machines. 
> 
> ~ Still allow connections to my other network resources? 
> 
> ~ Still allow inbound access to my webserver and Remote Desktop (port 
> forwarding from the outside).
> 
> ~ And still allow out-bound connections to other non-customer external 
> addresses (the internet).
> 
> Note, my internet service includes 5 static IP addresses, if that makes a 
> difference.
> 
> So, any ideas?
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to read this.
> 
> Scott, 
> 
> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
> 
> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Witango-Talk: [OT] VPN Enabled Routers

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Folks,

If anybody is so inclined, I'm looking for recommendations for a VPN enabled 
router that handles out-bound tunneling (not pass-thru). 

I don't profess to be a network person, so I'll explain the best I can, so 
warning - I'm sure this post will be wordy :-b 

I have a particular customer whom I've been doing periodic contract work for 
over 6 years. With them I have to use VPN client software to connect to their 
network when I deploy something or need to work on their servers. 

With their particular type of VPN connection, once I do the VPN logon my 
workstation becomes a part of their network, which inherits a new IP from their 
internal LAN. Once I'm connected my workstation is unable to connect to my own 
local network. Which is highly inconvenient of course, but I can deal with that 
for the most part by running the VPN inside a virtual machine. 

If I did all my development work on one machine I wouldn't have a problem. But 
my setup these days includes the following: 

~ A heavy-duty desktop running WinXP for the Visual Studio IDE. 

~ 6 Virtual Machines for browser testing (running on the desktop, which are 
separate machines as far as VPN is concerned). 

~ A Mac Mini for more browser testing.

~ Another workstation with Visual Studio for my coding buddy Mark, who also 
works in my office, he's not a witango guy ;-) 

~ And a dedicated Windows 2003 Server for hosting all our code and SQL 2000 & 
2005 databases. 

~ Oh, and a 1TB Network Attached Storage device that I use for backups. 

I also have 3 other computers on my local network, but those aren't used for 
work. 

Anyway, since starting a recent job with this particular customer things are 
getting more involved where we need a dedicated VPN connection from both our 
workstations and now from the server (which is going to run an automated 
database sync routine we're going to build). 

So, is there a router that can handle all VPN (client?) connections to my 
customer's external network? Including the following features? 

~ Automatic transparent VPN connections from any of my local machines. 

~ Still allow connections to my other network resources?

~ Still allow inbound access to my webserver and Remote Desktop (port 
forwarding from the outside). 

~ And still allow out-bound connections to other non-customer external 
addresses (the internet). 

Note, my internet service includes 5 static IP addresses, if that makes a 
difference. 

So, any ideas?

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Scott,



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: witango ftp upload form

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Ted,

Unless you're using a custom or 3rd party webpage loaded applet of some kind, a 
server-side application cannot pickup files from a user's workstation and 
transfer them somewhere that is not the same server. It's a security thing, eh.

But, you could use a PHP or ASP.NET app from your server to do what your 
witango server is doing now. Either one would be more memory and resource 
efficient than how witango handles uploads and external posts of large files. 

Good luck.

Scott,



On Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:45pm, Ted Wolfley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> We are also uploading the files now but the files are getting too big 
> and  the upload ties up the witango server..
> 
> 
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Driscoll, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:24 PM 
> To: witango-talk@witango.com 
> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: witango ftp upload form
> 
> 
> 
> We do this 
> But we actually upload the file to the server then use the external 
> command using ftp text file to upload the file to the site
> 
> Kevin
> -- 
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ted Wolfley 
> To: witango-talk@witango.com
> Sent: Wed Feb 13 12:32:18 2008 
> Subject: Witango-Talk: witango ftp upload form
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone created or found a way to use witango to ftp a file from the 
> local machine and not the server that witango is setting on?  I can 
> successfully ftp from the witango server to the ftp site with the 
> external action but witango can't find the file on my workstation.  I 
> have found php pages on the web that I may have to use.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, I could wait for Witango 6 with its built-in ftp upload. 
> 
> 
> 
> Ted Wolfley
> 
> Lead Internet and Database Programmer
> 
> The Ogden Group of Rochester
> 
> phone: 585.321.1060 x23 
> 
> fax: 585.321.0043
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ogdengroup.com   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
> 
> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: Off Topic Windows 2003 Web Edition

[Scott Cadillac]

Sorry Dude,

I used to have one Server that was Web Edition, but I never needed the DNS 
locally so can't recall the options specifically. But I don't have that machine 
anymore.

Maybe somebody else?

Scott,



On Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:51pm, WebDude <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Yeah, I saw that too... DHCP with DNS and Active Directory. But I am
> confused because upon further investigation, I see people commenting on
> configuring DNS for the Web Edition. I also found some viruses and other
> hacks that were directed towards the DNS server of Web Edition.
> 
> Do you think it is possible they included the DNS server without DHCP and I
> know they do not include Active Directory. It is very confusing on their
> site. I was hoping to find someone who actually is using the server.
> 
> Look at this link on MS...
> 
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/814591
> 
> It lists the Web Edition for instructions on the install...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:34 AM
> To: witango-talk@witango.com
> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Off Topic Windows 2003 Web Edition
> 
> Hey Dude,
> 
> It looks like no for a DNS Server.
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/evaluate/features/compare.msp
> x
> 
> But that doesn't mean you can't install a 3rd party DNS product, or use a
> hosted solution. I use http://www.worldwidedns.net/
> 
> Obviously Web Edition does all the usual IIS stuff.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Scott,
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:25pm, WebDude <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> Is anyone using this platform? I am trying to get some info on it and
>> like usual, I am totally confused by any information from Microsoft..
>> Does it come with the DNS Server? I am looking to set up a secondary
>> DNS server with a new machine. Looks like the Web Edition is the
>> ticket. Do not need domain or domain controller... just a way to host
> multiple sites on multiple IPs.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> __
>> __ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: Off Topic Windows 2003 Web Edition

[Scott Cadillac]

Hey Dude,

It looks like no for a DNS Server.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/evaluate/features/compare.mspx

But that doesn't mean you can't install a 3rd party DNS product, or use a 
hosted solution. I use http://www.worldwidedns.net/

Obviously Web Edition does all the usual IIS stuff.

Hope that helps.

Scott,



On Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:25pm, WebDude <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Hello,
> 
> Is anyone using this platform? I am trying to get some info on it and like
> usual, I am totally confused by any information from Microsoft.. Does it
> come with the DNS Server? I am looking to set up a secondary DNS server with
> a new machine. Looks like the Web Edition is the ticket. Do not need domain
> or domain controller... just a way to host multiple sites on multiple IPs.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Witango Version 6 - Community Update

[Scott Cadillac]

> I think there is argument, over who holds the top spot, but def no
> argument who is in the top 3-4.

Quite right Robert.

We could argue the technical merits of each until we're blue in the face. But 
picking either ASP.NET, Java or PHP will find you work somewhere.

At the end of the day, the choice "should" be more about comfort level. And if 
you truely enjoying your work, the jobs have a way of finding you (the Secret). 
How else do we explain that many folks on this list are still here, and 
presumably still making a living with Tango/Witango?

As for me, although I hate to say it, a few years ago I just got bored with 
Tango and yearned for something more. 

But this latest news has certainly peeked my interest. We shall see what comes 
of it.

I wonder how Phil's new open source "license" would feel about a .NET flavoured 
port of Witango, maybe running on the upcoming 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Language_Runtime ?

Is change in the air?

Scott,

 
> --
> 
> Robert Garcia
> President - BigHead Technology
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 13653 West Park Dr
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> On Feb 11, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Ben Johansen wrote:
> 
>> did a couple quick searches on google, here are the about results
>>
>> .php - 10,890,000,000
>> .asp - 4,240,000,000
>> .aspx - 1,020,000,000
>> .jsp - 559,000,000
>> .taf - 18,400,000
>>
>> .php extension - 7,820,000
>> .asp  extension - 5,020,000
>> .aspx extension - 829,000
>> .jsp extension - 502,000
>> .taf extension - 158,000
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2008, at 8:39 PM, Christian Platt wrote:
>>
>>> I agree, this is a microsoft based site, which does measure their
>>> own servers...
>>>
>>> http://www.contentmetrics.de/WebSurveillant/Web-Server-Statistik.jsp
>>>
>>> For Germany the statistic is more different. LAMP Servers are doing
>>> their thing.
>>>
>>> What i can offer to the community:
>>>
>>> Hosting witango in germany,
>>> All based  on Apple hardware, 100% Windows free ;-)
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 12.02.2008 um 01:21 schrieb Bill Downall:
>>>
>>>> I think the statistics are misleading, though, since by default,
>>>> every IIS installation puts this line in the header:
>>>>
>>>> x-powered-by: ASP.NET
>>>>
>>>> You have to go to the trouble of removing it, or else port80
>>>> counts it as an ASP.NET server.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 11, 2008 6:54 PM, Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> All very wise words Robert,
>>>>
>>>> And thank you for the link.
>>>>
>>>> > http://www.port80software.com/surveys/top1000appservers/
>>>>
>>>> Yup, it looks like I picked a good one 8-)
>>>>
>>>> Scott,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>
>>> 
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
>> 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Witango Version 6 - Community Update

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Bill,

> I think the statistics are misleading, though, since by default, every IIS
> installation puts this line in the header:
> 
> *x-powered-by:* ASP.NET
> 
> You have to go to the trouble of removing it, or else port80 counts it as an
> ASP.NET server.

Actually, this only shows when IIS is on a machine that has the .NET framework 
installed (not a standard feature on Server OS'), so by definition it is an 
ASP.NET application server. But as to whether or not it has any actual ASP.NET 
applications on it is another question.

The same could be said of some host providers, that install stuff like Perl and 
PHP as part of their package, but people are just running static webpages.

Oh well.

Scott,



 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 11, 2008 6:54 PM, Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> All very wise words Robert,
>>
>> And thank you for the link.
>>
>> > http://www.port80software.com/surveys/top1000appservers/
>>
>> Yup, it looks like I picked a good one 8-)
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
>>
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Witango Version 6 - Community Update

[Scott Cadillac]

All very wise words Robert,

And thank you for the link.

> http://www.port80software.com/surveys/top1000appservers/

Yup, it looks like I picked a good one 8-)

Scott,




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: Witango Version 6 - Community Update

[Scott Cadillac]

Wow Phil,

Let me be one of the first to congratulate you.

This obviously marks a turning point in Witango's long history, as well as it's 
future. 

On behalf of myself, thank you for making the effort and commitment you have. 

Kudos.

Sincerely,

Scott Cadillac


On Monday, February 11, 2008 8:59am, Phil Wade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> WITANGO COMMUNITY UPDATE
> 
> 
> Th Witango 6 development project is now drawing to a close and in the 
> coming weeks a full public beta of both studio and server will be 
> released. The full release of Witango 6 will be accompanied by 
> significant changes to both pricing and licensing,  we therefore take 
> this opportunity to update the community as we move forward.
> 
> 
> New Licensing
> - 
> Once the beta testing has been completed and version 6 goes into 
> release, the source code for both the server and studio will be open 
> sourced under its own license.  Witango will continue to be a 
> commercial product and a license will need to be purchased. There will 
> be 3 editions of the Server:
> 
> The Lite edition - no change to current license conditions 
> The Developer edition - no change to current license conditions. 
> The Professional edition - single machine license, with no limitation 
> on number of processes or CPUs.
> 
> 
> New Pricing 
> ---
> Witango Studio v6 US$199
> 
> Witango Studio upgrade - US$99
> 
> Witango Server Lite - Free 
> Witango Server Developer Edition - Free with studio 
> Witango Server Professional - US$1499
> 
> Witango Server Upgrade from v5.5 - US$999 
> Witango Server Upgrade from pre v5.5 - US$1299
> 
> Those customers who own Witango 5.5 professional edition servers will 
> have the option at the time of upgrade to upgrade their server to two 
> (2) Witango 6 Professional edition licenses for US$1499.
> 
> Witango licenses will only be available direct from Witango 
> Technologies and no further discount will apply.
> 
> 
> Your Enquiries
> --- 
> A comprehensive outline of new features will be available on release 
> of the beta.  We understand many of you will have questions, please 
> direct them off list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] We will compile a FAQ and 
> post back to the list.
> 
> It has been a long term goal for Witango Technologies to move Witango 
> to an Open Source product, with simplified and affordable licensing. 
> Witango v6 therefore represents a major milestone for us.  We would 
> also take his opportunity to thank our development team who have 
> worked with consistent enthusiasm and considerable effort in preparing 
> the code for open source.
> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: <@URL> + XML

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert,

I think you're quite right, the limitation is probably on Witango. But Chuck, 
was your length testing with @URL or just hand-crafted in MSIE?

Here's a link to some interesting bits of information about URL limits.

http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/misc/urllength.html

Obviously browsers have their limits, which we've all run into at some point or 
another, but server-to-server should be more wide open.

All the best.

Scott,



On Friday, February 8, 2008 11:55am, Robert Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> I have some webservices I use, with actual banks, like FDR, and
> cardservices, that require HORRENDOUSLY long get arguments. The only
> time there is a limit, is if it is imposed by the client, or the
> server. So if the server has no limit, and I would imagine this is the
> case with a webservice that requires xml in the get argument, then I
> would suspect either @url is putting the brakes on it, or your xml
> needs to be prepared to fit on a single line, and URLENCODED.
> 
> I have a conference call in 7 mins, with a bank with a service like
> this, and they don't even allow you to substitute as POST args, must
> be get.
> 
> The other way to check, is write something in VB and test it. I use
> RealBasic, and have not found a limit on GET.
> 
> One more note, I know that witango has a limit, due to memory
> allocation, on the size of an environment variable passed to a
> external app. My guess, is they have some limit on this also.
> 
> --
> 
> Robert Garcia
> President - BigHead Technology
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 13653 West Park Dr
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> On Feb 8, 2008, at 7:32 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chuck,
>>
>> Unfortunately there is an unspecified limit to how long you can make
>> a URL. GET requests were never meant to support long strings of
>> data, thus the POST request. People try, but eventually somewhere in
>> the URL's travels a proxy, router or gateway somewhere will start
>> truncating the URL.
>>
>> Are you sure you're interpretting the webservice's specs correctly?
>>
>> Do you have any more information you can post?
>>
>> Let us know, when you have time.
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, February 8, 2008 11:23am, Chuck Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > said:
>>
>>> We are using a webservice that requires that the XML be passed in
>>> as a get,
>>> not a post argument (so it seems).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The below works until the <@ARG testXML> gets over 2000 characters
>>> then it
>>> starts getting truncated.  Am I nuts or does witango do this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <@ASSIGN request$method_response VALUE="<@URL LOCATION='<@ARG
>>> vURL>&xml=<@ARG TestXML>'>">
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck Lockwood
>>>
>>> President
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 309 Main Avenue
>>> Hawley, Pa 18428
>>> (P) 570.226.7340
>>> (F) 570.226.7341
>>>
>>> www.lockdata.com <http://www.lockdata.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
>> 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: <@URL> + XML

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Chuck,

Sorry I dropped out of the conversation, but I had a 2 hour conference call to 
do. 

Posting to a webservice in this manner is not what is considered good practice, 
but that doesn't mean it'll stop people from trying of course. This looks like 
something from the early days of XML over HTTP, before people knew how to spell 
XML 8-\ 

Have you tried taking the "&xml=" argument out of the URL string, and supplying 
it as a separate post argument anyway? Use the POSTARGS= attribute of @URL 

You never know, their system might treat GET and POST arguments agnostically, 
just like @ARG does? 

The bit of documentation you posted doesn't appear to state a "GET" HTTP method 
specifically, so try the above. 

But of course, even if it does work there is no quarentee their system will 
necessarily accept multiple "HotelAvailabilityListQuery" elements. 

You might be stuck with looping your <@URL> call for each hotel. 

Sorry, not much help I guess. Good luck.

Scott,


On Friday, February 8, 2008 1:25pm, Chuck Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Robert,
> 
> 
> 
> I pasted that xml in from their example.  I understand the "one liner", 
> thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> It is definitely the length of the GET that's causing the problem.  I can 
> reliably recreate it by sending 2000+ character packets.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this problem arises the Friday before a Monday site launch, just 
> my luck!  So I guess the client can only book one hotel room at a time until 
> I figure out a solution..
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck Lockwood
> 
> President
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 309 Main Avenue
> Hawley, Pa 18428
> (P) 570.226.7340 
> (F) 570.226.7341
> 
> www.lockdata.com <http://www.lockdata.com/>
> 
> 
> 
>   _
> 
> From: Robert Garcia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:14 AM 
> To: witango-talk@witango.com 
> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: <@URL> + XML
> 
> 
> 
> That xml is not going to work in a get argument. must be one line, like: 
> 
> 
> 
> <@assign local$xml "datadata"> 
> 
> 
> 
> <@url "http://someurl.com/path/file.php?foo=bar 
> <http://someurl.com/path/file.php?foo=bar&xml=> &xml=<@var local$xml 
> encoding=url>">
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Garcia
> 
> President - BigHead Technology
> 
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 
> 13653 West Park Dr
> 
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> 
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 8, 2008, at 8:02 AM, Chuck Lockwood wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they don't tell me much. This is hotels.com, so there has to be a lot 
> of people that get it to work.
> 
> I found this so far: 
> 
> All requests (except Reservations) made to TravelNow.com should be made to 
> the following URL: 
> http://www.travelnow.com/external/xmlinterface.jsp?cid=x 
> <http://www.travelnow.com/external/xmlinterface.jsp?cid=x&;> & 
> resType=hotel200631&intfc=ws&xml=z
> 
> Reservation requests MUST be made to this secure URL: 
> https://www.travelnow.com/external/xmlinterface.jsp?cid=x 
> <https://www.travelnow.com/external/xmlinterface.jsp?cid=x&;> & 
> resType=hotel200631&intfc=ws&xml=z
> 
> * parameter x is equal to the IAN affiliate ID assigned to your 
> account 
> * parameter z is equal to the XML data TravelNow.com is responsible 
> for processing.
> 
> http://www.travelnow.com/external/xmlinterface.jsp?cid=1&resType=hotel200631 
> &intfc=ws&xml= 
>  
> New York 
> NY 
> US 
> 08/31/2006 
> 09/02/2006 
> 
>     
>         2 
>    
>  
> 25 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:32 AM 
> To: witango-talk@witango.com 
> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: <@URL> + XML
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Chuck,
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately there is an unspecified limit to how long you can make a URL. 
> GET requests were never meant to support long strings of data, thus the POST 
> request. People try, but eventually somewhere in the URL's travels a proxy, 
> router or gateway somewhere will start truncating the URL.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure you're interpretting the webservice's specs correctly? 
> 
> 
> 

RE: Witango-Talk: <@URL> + XML

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Chuck,

Unfortunately there is an unspecified limit to how long you can make a URL. GET 
requests were never meant to support long strings of data, thus the POST 
request. People try, but eventually somewhere in the URL's travels a proxy, 
router or gateway somewhere will start truncating the URL.

Are you sure you're interpretting the webservice's specs correctly?

Do you have any more information you can post?

Let us know, when you have time.

Scott,



On Friday, February 8, 2008 11:23am, Chuck Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> We are using a webservice that requires that the XML be passed in as a get,
> not a post argument (so it seems).
> 
> 
> 
> The below works until the <@ARG testXML> gets over 2000 characters then it
> starts getting truncated.  Am I nuts or does witango do this?
> 
> 
> 
> <@ASSIGN request$method_response VALUE="<@URL LOCATION='<@ARG
> vURL>&xml=<@ARG TestXML>'>">
> 
> 
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck Lockwood
> 
> President
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 309 Main Avenue
> Hawley, Pa 18428
> (P) 570.226.7340
> (F) 570.226.7341
> 
> www.lockdata.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: [OT] Are my carriage-return, lin e-feeds missing?

[Scott Cadillac]

Thank you everyone for your feedback.

I'm using http://www.mailtrust.com/ (used to be http://www.webmail.us/) as my 
provider, and I always just use their webmail interface with either MSIE or 
Safari. Haven't used Outlook in a really long time.

Thanks again.

Scott,





On Wednesday, February 6, 2008 8:01pm, Kent Swisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Looks ok to me.
> 
> MS Exchange server
> Outlook and Thunderbird on winXP.
> 
> -> Kent Swisher
> 
> On 2/6/2008 3:40 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Although I'm sure some of you could do without my dribble, someone on the 
>> list
>> pointed out to me that when I post messages the carriage-returns and/or
>> line-feeds are missings, so everything just comes through as one big block of
>> text.
>>
>> Does this happen for others? Just curious if I need to fix something.
>>
>> Obviously my messages appear fine when I see them, or when I look at the
>> following:
>>
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/witango-talk@witango.com/
>>
>> Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>>
>> 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Witango-Talk: [OT] Are my carriage-return, line-feeds missing?

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Folks,

Although I'm sure some of you could do without my dribble, someone on the list 
pointed out to me that when I post messages the carriage-returns and/or 
line-feeds are missings, so everything just comes through as one big block of 
text.

Does this happen for others? Just curious if I need to fix something.

Obviously my messages appear fine when I see them, or when I look at the 
following:

http://www.mail-archive.com/witango-talk@witango.com/

Thank you in advance.

Scott,



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: Passing login to JavaScript

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert,

All very true. Cookies are not to be discounted for sure, as long as you're 
careful with what you put in the unencrypted kind. 

In fact I rely completely on cookies when I build session bridges (between 
languages). 

For more than a few years I've been building my own session management in the 
database and don't use the platform session mechanism at all. This is great for 
performance and scalability, and it allows me to segue between sessions in 
Witango and ASP.NET on the same site. 

But I'm still just passing an ambiguous session identifier (albeit custom made 
AND encrypted) and never anything sensitive. 

Scott,



On Wednesday, February 6, 2008 4:52pm, Robert Shubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> But really cookies are the most convenient way to go from a Witango page to 
> a HTML page and back to a Witango page and maintain the session. Heck the 
> USR is going to do that automatically as long as the domain hasn't changed 
> and/or the scope hasn't timed out. You can also use cookies to step between 
> programming languages.
> 
> And don't leave out that the value of a cookie can be easily encrypted with 
> tripledes or blowfish so storing and retrieve a relatively sensitive piece 
> of data can still be done safely. Combine that with a method of timing them 
> out along with the user's session and it should be pretty secure. 
> 
> Just thinking out-loud a little.
> 
> Robert 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 3:29 PM 
> To: witango-talk@witango.com 
> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Passing login to JavaScript
> 
> Hi Ben,
> 
>> I agree with Robert here, this is what cookies where designed for 
> 
> True, to a point.
> 
> Keep in mind cookies where introduced before server-side user/session scope 
> variables where commonly available for web apps.
> 
> Once user/session scope variables did come along they became the preferred 
> alternative for some very good reasons. Namely security of sensitive 
> information like a user's ID.
> 
> If the user's ID is available as a cookie (or a URL argument for that 
> matter), and not verified upon posting to a database for example, the user 
> has an opportunity to hijack somebody else's identity. This could 
> potentially permit a malicious user to bypass authentication limits on what 
> they are allowed and not allowed to do, e.g., change or delete records. 
> Chaos could ensue.
> 
> An ambiguous session identifier, that only exists for a unique browser 
> instance, is more protection than exposing something sensitive like a real 
> database identifier. Especially given the tools users have at their disposal 
> these days with Firefox extensions and the like that allow anybody to alter 
> their cookie values prior to posting.
> 
> If a company has say 20 employees, and you know your ID is say 14, how long 
> will it take to guess your boss' ID?
> 
> Then again, if you're just using that information for something innocent 
> like displaying alternative menus then you're probably fine.
> 
> But still, it's something to be mindful of.
> 
> Scott, 
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> Ben
>> 
>> On Feb 6, 2008, at 7:06 AM, Robert Shubert wrote:
>> 
>>> A cookie might work.
>>> 
>>> From: Dan Stein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM 
>>> To: witango-talk@witango.com 
>>> Subject: Witango-Talk: Passing login to JavaScript 
>>> 
>>> I have a site where 90% of the pages can be served with just plain 
>>> HTML or HTML and some XML and JavaScript.
>>> 
>>> We use a Filemaker database for the members info and that is how 
>>> they log in.
>>> 
>>> If they are logged in we show them a different menu because they get 
>>> different information.
>>> 
>>> I prefer not to keep loading and caching pages with The witango 
>>> server that only need this small bit of information which we could 
>>> easily make the users email address and ID number. 
>>> 
>>> Is there a way to store this information using JS or some other 
>>> technique after having witango log them in.
>>> 
>>> So somehow I want to pass the user scope variables from witango and 
>>> have them available.
>>>
>>> Dan 
>>> --
>>> Dan Stein 
>>> FileMaker 7 Certified Developer 
>>> Digital Software Solutions 
>>> 799 Evergreen Circle 
>>> Telford PA 18969 
>>> Land: 215-799-0192 
>>> Cell: 610

Re: Witango-Talk: Passing login to JavaScript

[Scott Cadillac]

> His number is 9 billion, because he thinks to highly of himself :-)

Hey, I think I used to work for that guy :-P

Thanks.

Scott,









> Good point, a good level of obfuscation in the storing of the data is
> needed
> 
> 
> Ben
> 
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 12:28 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>>> I agree with Robert here, this is what cookies where designed for
>>
>> True, to a point.
>>
>> Keep in mind cookies where introduced before server-side user/
>> session scope variables where commonly available for web apps.
>>
>> Once user/session scope variables did come along they became the
>> preferred alternative for some very good reasons. Namely security of
>> sensitive information like a user's ID.
>>
>> If the user's ID is available as a cookie (or a URL argument for
>> that matter), and not verified upon posting to a database for
>> example, the user has an opportunity to hijack somebody else's
>> identity. This could potentially permit a malicious user to bypass
>> authentication limits on what they are allowed and not allowed to
>> do, e.g., change or delete records. Chaos could ensue.
>>
>> An ambiguous session identifier, that only exists for a unique
>> browser instance, is more protection than exposing something
>> sensitive like a real database identifier. Especially given the
>> tools users have at their disposal these days with Firefox
>> extensions and the like that allow anybody to alter their cookie
>> values prior to posting.
>>
>> If a company has say 20 employees, and you know your ID is say 14,
>> how long will it take to guess your boss' ID?
>>
>> Then again, if you're just using that information for something
>> innocent like displaying alternative menus then you're probably fine.
>>
>> But still, it's something to be mindful of.
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On Feb 6, 2008, at 7:06 AM, Robert Shubert wrote:
>>>
>>>> A cookie might work.
>>>>
>>>> From: Dan Stein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM
>>>> To: witango-talk@witango.com
>>>> Subject: Witango-Talk: Passing login to JavaScript
>>>>
>>>> I have a site where 90% of the pages can be served with just plain
>>>> HTML or HTML and some XML and JavaScript.
>>>>
>>>> We use a Filemaker database for the members info and that is how
>>>> they log in.
>>>>
>>>> If they are logged in we show them a different menu because they get
>>>> different information.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer not to keep loading and caching pages with The witango
>>>> server that only need this small bit of information which we could
>>>> easily make the users email address and ID number.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to store this information using JS or some other
>>>> technique after having witango log them in.
>>>>
>>>> So somehow I want to pass the user scope variables from witango and
>>>> have them available.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> --
>>>> Dan Stein
>>>> FileMaker 7 Certified Developer
>>>> Digital Software Solutions
>>>> 799 Evergreen Circle
>>>> Telford PA 18969
>>>> Land: 215-799-0192
>>>> Cell: 610-256-2843
>>>> Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st)
>>>> FMP, WiTango, EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> www.dss-db.com
>>>>
>>>> "I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends."
>>>>
>>>> Abraham Lincoln
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>> 
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
>> 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Passing login to JavaScript

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Ben,

> I agree with Robert here, this is what cookies where designed for

True, to a point. 

Keep in mind cookies where introduced before server-side user/session scope 
variables where commonly available for web apps. 

Once user/session scope variables did come along they became the preferred 
alternative for some very good reasons. Namely security of sensitive 
information like a user's ID. 

If the user's ID is available as a cookie (or a URL argument for that matter), 
and not verified upon posting to a database for example, the user has an 
opportunity to hijack somebody else's identity. This could potentially permit a 
malicious user to bypass authentication limits on what they are allowed and not 
allowed to do, e.g., change or delete records. Chaos could ensue. 

An ambiguous session identifier, that only exists for a unique browser 
instance, is more protection than exposing something sensitive like a real 
database identifier. Especially given the tools users have at their disposal 
these days with Firefox extensions and the like that allow anybody to alter 
their cookie values prior to posting. 

If a company has say 20 employees, and you know your ID is say 14, how long 
will it take to guess your boss' ID?

Then again, if you're just using that information for something innocent like 
displaying alternative menus then you're probably fine. 

But still, it's something to be mindful of.

Scott,



> 
> Ben
> 
> On Feb 6, 2008, at 7:06 AM, Robert Shubert wrote:
> 
>> A cookie might work.
>> 
>> From: Dan Stein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:58 AM 
>> To: witango-talk@witango.com 
>> Subject: Witango-Talk: Passing login to JavaScript
>> 
>> I have a site where 90% of the pages can be served with just plain 
>> HTML or HTML and some XML and JavaScript.
>> 
>> We use a Filemaker database for the members info and that is how 
>> they log in.
>> 
>> If they are logged in we show them a different menu because they get 
>> different information.
>> 
>> I prefer not to keep loading and caching pages with The witango 
>> server that only need this small bit of information which we could 
>> easily make the users email address and ID number.
>> 
>> Is there a way to store this information using JS or some other 
>> technique after having witango log them in.
>> 
>> So somehow I want to pass the user scope variables from witango and 
>> have them available.
>>
>> Dan
>> -- 
>> Dan Stein
>> FileMaker 7 Certified Developer 
>> Digital Software Solutions
>> 799 Evergreen Circle 
>> Telford PA 18969
>> Land: 215-799-0192 
>> Cell: 610-256-2843
>> Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) 
>> FMP, WiTango, EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> www.dss-db.com
>> 
>> "I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends."
>> 
>> Abraham Lincoln
>> 
>>  
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
>>  
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf 
> 
> 
>  
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: is witango alive?

[Scott Cadillac]

On Wednesday, February 6, 2008 7:32am, Phil Wade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Yes

Our buddy Phil must have been burning the midnight oil, as they say down under.

Either that, or he's in a different timezone 8-?





 
> 
> On 06/02/2008, at 1:23 AM, Dan Stein wrote:
> 
>> Are we still on track for the announcement this week?
>> --
>>
>> Dan Stein
>> FileMaker 7 Certified Developer
>> Digital Software Solutions
>> 799 Evergreen Circle
>> Telford PA 18969
>> Land: 215-799-0192
>> Cell: 610-256-2843
>> Fax 215-799-0192 (call 1st)
>> FMP, WiTango, EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, PHP
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> "There is more to life than increasing its speed." Gandhi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2008, at 2:20 AM, Phil Wade wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> As we have done with previous years down here in the southern
>>> hemisphere we all go on summer holidays in January.  Myself and the
>>> rest of the team will be back on board next week and I will make a
>>> statement about new pricing and licensing for version 6 then.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30/01/2008, at 7:19 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Neighbor,
>>>>
>>>>> Pretty bad when were discussing what other programming platforms
>>>>> to use for
>>>>> our upcoming projects on the WiTango talk list.
>>>>
>>>> True.
>>>>
>>>> But despite it all, we have to give Phil credit for maintaining
>>>> this list for us.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Phil!
>>>>
>>>> Scott,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>> 
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>>
>>
>> 
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Re: is witango alive? Tango->Z end/PHP->Amazon S3, can-do?

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert and Beverly,

> I do like the idea of having wysiwyg html in php ide, but it wouldn't
> be used for the bulk of coding, just prototyping.

That about sums it up for me in Visual Studio as well. 

> I promote MVC in whatever I work.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller

I've also been using the MVC methodology for a few years now in all my ASP.NET 
projects, in one form or another. Once you have your custom intrinsic objects 
setup, you can fly through code writing in Visual Studio very fast. The in-line 
Intellisense selection becomes your greatest aid. 

Although I often lament the absence in Visual Studio of something like the 
Action tree-view the Tango editor has, I have to admit that once you get used 
to writing code for MVC it makes it difficult to say where exactly such a 
feature as the Action view would fit in Visual Studio (or Eclipse for the 
matter).

No doubt having an Action view in a sophisticated IDE like Visual Studio or 
Eclipse would be a great learning/teaching aid, I wonder if it wouldn't just 
get in the way of the hard-core low-level coders?

Oh well, I guess we may never know...

Scott,

 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

RE: Witango-Talk: Re: is witango alive? Tango->Z end/PHP->Amazon S3, can-do?

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Neighbor,

> Pretty bad when were discussing what other programming platforms to use for
> our upcoming projects on the WiTango talk list.

True.

But despite it all, we have to give Phil credit for maintaining this list for 
us.

Thank you Phil!

Scott,




TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: Re: is witango alive?

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert,

Good point about the price of the Java Compiler. I hadn't realized it was that 
much.

As for Microsoft support, if you're not an MSDN subscriber than it can be 
confusing. But  being a subscriber is a night and day difference. 

But things just work in the .NET world too. In the past 5 years I can count on 
one hand the number of times I've had to contact MS for technical support - and 
I've still got room to spare. 

Not too mention the shear mass of posted articles, code samples, free working 
apps, MSDN library, forums and knowledge base help dedicated to ASP.NET, it's 
endless. Not unlike PHP I'm sure. 

Recently the source code for the .NET framework was made available, if you want 
to see how it works. Microsoft is not running it as an open-source project, but 
the source is now freely available, which will only strengthen the alternative 
options for the framework on other operating systems.

It's all interesting stuff.

Scott,


On Monday, January 28, 2008 7:13pm, Robert Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Not complete apples and oranges, but I understand what you are saying.
> But I was more comparing to witango, and also, I wanted personal
> support. Zend is a decent sized company, but not like MS, and the
> license you spend for zend, is really just for support. Dev servers of
> Zend are free.
> 
> I mean, you mentioned the ability of witango to port to java, but
> thats not even a reasonable feature IMHO. I was there, along with you
> in philly when they first demoed that. And we were all excited to be
> able to have that possibility, and be able to server on another
> platform. But the fine print is to use this feature you have to pay
> some $5k license to run on a single server. Why? You love witango that
> much you would pay $5k to compile over instead of learn JAVA/JSP? I
> mean, that probably made sense for the big company with the huge app.
> The OEMS that witango inherited from Pervasive. But its those
> decisions, that has sent so many small shops and developers running
> for the hills.
> 
> I have no problem what I pay to zend, because I pay it for support,
> and its worth it. 1 year of upgrades, would get you ZERO value with
> witango, but with zend, that is several .5 level software revisions
> and lots of great enhancements. HIGH AVAILABILITY was one of the most
> recent great enhancements. And we all have learned the money you pay
> for witango is only to have the priveledge of downloading and
> installing the product. Support is above and beyond, you must pay.
> 
> MS support is not as bad as witango, but still pretty tough.
> 
> And believe it or not, when a zend update comes out, it works. I have
> 4 php devs working with me, and we code all kinds of stuff, new
> projects, and witango ports, and we don't tip toe around bugs. The
> servers run, and the code works, occasionally an issue comes up, you
> report it, there is usually a reasonable workaround, and it gets fixed.
> 
> Anyway, I know what it costs to own witango, and own zend/php, zend
> php is less. MS, I haven't compared as much, but I love linux, and the
> performance it allows you to squeeze out of the hardware. And when you
> see how tight the integration and performance is between zend/php/
> mysql<->mysqli/linux/apache, its a dream for a small shop like me.
> 
> Oh, sorry, one last thing I forgot. zphp actually informs you of every
> single error and problem, before you even know they exist. I get
> detailed emails of each app failure, and even slow script execution.
> Each error is logged and prioritized in a mysql database, and is
> searchable. Each error shows every piece of data you can think of,
> like all variable values and get arguments and such. You can assign an
> error to a developer, or just acknowledge. It tracks by which server
> had the error also. You can click on a single error, and get the raw
> data, and even click one button which will activate the remote logging
> in your zend ide dev studio, and reproduce the error in your console
> with the exact same criteria as when it occurred. You can even
> configure your zend studio to be fed any errors direct from the server
> as they occur, so everytime you open your IDE it shows you any new
> errors, you click on each, and either remote debug, or archive.
> 
> --
> 
> Robert Garcia
> President - BigHead Technology
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 13653 West Park Dr
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> On Jan 28, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote:
> 
>> Thank you for the cost figures Robert,
>>
>> Yes, it's less expensive th

Re: Witango-Talk: Re: is witango alive?

[Scott Cadillac]

Thank you for the cost figures Robert,

Yes, it's less expensive than Tango, although the licensing models are 
different  (apples and oranges?).

I like the Visual Studio and ASP.NET license model. Pay for the Pro versions of 
the IDE as a one-time purchase or subscription (the Express versions are free), 
and there are no special Server licenses required of any kind. Build it, and 
deploy to as many servers as you want.

Yes, to use IIS with ASP.NET you need a licensed Windows Server OS, but 2003 
Web Edition is still cheaper than Zend from the sounds of it.

As well, you can get ASP.NET running on Linux and Mac for free by alternative 
open-source vendors that are 90% as complete as the Microsoft version.

An MSDN subscription with Visual Studio Team Server (5 licenses) costs about $ 
5,500.00 a year, plus you get all sorts of OS', SQL Server and Office.

A single copy of Visual Studio Professional is about $ 1,100.00 to buy 
out-right, and your covered for 2 machines, including remote debugging.

I'm not trying to shoot down your model, just providing information. Apples and 
oranges, eh ;-)

Take care.

Scott,


On Monday, January 28, 2008 5:52pm, Robert Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Sorry, 4 dev studios, and 6 servers for like $7k. Don't remember
> exact, it was under 7, more than 6.
> 
> --
> 
> Robert Garcia
> President - BigHead Technology
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 13653 West Park Dr
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> On Jan 28, 2008, at 1:38 PM, Robert Garcia wrote:
> 
>> Y, they used to post on the site. First, I agree. I HATED having to
>> leave witango. It pissed me off to even have to consider, and I am
>> sure that attitude has come through in the past. ;-) It was VERY
>> hard, and took me almost 18 months of research and testing. PHP 4
>> was def not the answer, PHP 5 was OOP, but the enterprise level
>> features, were all over the map. Look at sites like DIGG and stuff,
>> and its full of roll your own clustering and hacks and stuff. The
>> Zend Platform is what pulled it all together for me, and gave me all
>> I needed and more.
>>
>> First, license is subscription, not perpetual, but I have found cost
>> of ownership to me much less than witango, especially when you
>> consider how they treat multicore processor and x64 arch. I pay
>> approximately $1000/yr per each single CPU server. This includes one
>> year of FULL and COMPLETE support, with 24 hour response time, with
>> unlimited upgrades during that time. I am talking about the high end
>> zend platform, I Think they call it the enterprise version or
>> something. Now, I paid less, I got a bundle deal with 4 dev studios,
>> for like $7k or something like that. The dev studios are perpetual,
>> but include one year of upgrades for $299. The cost of the studio is
>> made up with the remote debugging alone.
>>
>> I also forgot to mention, the zend platform has a full JAVA bridge.
>> Any java compiled code, can be loaded into class path, and called
>> right from php script. Here is an example of a PHP function that
>> uses the payflowpro JAVA class.
>>
>> 
>> private function pfp_authorize($ParmList,$istest=true,$CertPath="/
>> data/websites/phpws/certs",$Timeout=30){
>>  $pfp = new java("com.Verisign.payment.PFProAPI");
>>  if ($istest){
>>  $HostAddress = "test-payflow.verisign.com";
>>  }else{
>>  $HostAddress = "payflow.verisign.com";
>>  }
>>  $HostPort = (int)443;
>>  $ProxyAddress = (string)"";
>>  $ProxyPort = (int)0;
>>  $ProxyLogon = (string)"";
>>  $ProxyPassword = (string)"";
>>
>>  $pfp->SetCertPath($CertPath);
>>  $pfp->CreateContext($HostAddress,$HostPort,$Timeout,$ProxyAddress,
>> $ProxyPort,$ProxyLogon,$ProxyPassword);
>>  $res = $pfp->SubmitTransaction($ParmList);
>>  return $res;
>> }
>> 
>>
>> by callign this:
>>
>> $pfp = new java("com.Verisign.payment.PFProAPI");
>>
>> you then can call the java methods and such, as if were a PHP class.
>> Also, in the studio, if you load the java class in the studio, you
>> have full code autocompletion and introspection in the code editor.
>> So this also adds to the dynamic caching, and the optimizer, to give
>> you the best of any world, all the way to complete compiled code, if
>> you wish. Just roll a java class. And unlike witango, 

Re: Witango-Talk: Re: is witango alive?

[Scott Cadillac]

t; well, and bog-down the server? I don't have any issues when using
>> cfc's with Cold Fusion. And, I build my CSS in dreamweaver because
>> it's so easy to do. It doesn't make sense today to use 5 programs to
>> develop an application.
>>
>> ASP.NET is a tough language to learn if you are new to it. However,
>> the control you have over the code and options you have for
>> developing are phenomenal. It ties into the operating system
>> extremely well, and you can build web applications that talk to
>> active directory, and even go to the extent of installing a network
>> printer and defining permissions right from a web application
>> without any external components! Building CSS in Visual Studio 2008
>> is also a breeze. Unforunately, Mac users can't take advantage of
>> Visual Studio, or host ASP.NET applications on a Mac.
>>
>> Cold Fusion is a faster development language, and I would say it's
>> as fast as WiTango if you are familiar with Dreamweaver. Dreamweaver
>> will build the SQL just like WiTango, and integrating it with the
>> design layer is a snap! Cold fusion 8 has alot of new features built-
>> in, like uploading a picture and resizing it on the fly like image
>> magic. If you use flash alot for applications, video and such, then
>> Flex is the ultimate design tool for developing a graphic layer
>> around Cold Fusion.
>>
>> Converting WiTango code to Cold Fusion is fairly easy. I've
>> converted many apps, and they work just as well.
>>
>> Customers are getting smarter and more educated about web
>> programming and database platforms, which makes it increasingly
>> difficult to suggest WiTango as a language. Very few people host it,
>> and have heard of it. I know that Pervasive is a dirty word to alot
>> of you, but they did do alot of marketing and promotion of the
>> product to gain awareness, and they did make the product into XML
>> instead of binary code.
>>
>>
>> Rick Sanders
>> Webenergy
>> Canada: 902-401-7689
>> USA:   919-799-9076
>> Canada: www.webenergy.ca
>> USA:   www.webenergyusa.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: January-28-08 12:38 PM
>> To: witango-talk@witango.com
>> Subject: RE: Witango-Talk: Re: is witango alive?
>>
>> Hi Stefan,
>>
>> That's an interesting observation. I did the opposite. I was
>> actually doing ColdFusion prior to starting in Tango, which I found
>> was one of the reason I found Tango so easy to learn. The syntax and
>> tag methodologies are very similar.
>>
>> PHP is not too dissimilar as well I think, given that all three are
>> interpreted languages.
>>
>> I guess the difference with PHP is that additional architecture
>> features have been bolted on to PHP since its original design, and
>> of course many serious developers want to take advantage of that. I
>> think PHP apps can even be compiled now if I'm not mistaken, but
>> maybe I have that wrong?
>>
>> With ASP.NET for example, it's not an interpreted language (classic
>> ASP was), it's compiled. And given that it's integrated with IIS to
>> create a real application server, the underlying architecture that
>> handles the code execution is very different than ColdFusion, Tango
>> or PHP. Java is also in this class of architecture, to a degree.
>> This makes the transition from Tango to ASP.NET much more challenging.
>>
>> I've converted many Tango apps to ASP.NET for myself and other
>> folks, and as long as you know both languages well, the transposing
>> of the code is reasonably painless.
>>
>> I guess the key is, depending on where you're heading, is to learn
>> your new platform first before the conversion, and just don't assume
>> as you start out that it'll be just like Tango.
>>
>> For those not interested in PHP, I would checkout the conversion
>> tool in Witango that compiles to Java. I haven't used it myself, but
>> I bet that would fast track anybody's learning curve to a deeper
>> application architecture very much.
>>
>> When Phil first proposed the Java compiler apparently there was
>> plans for a .NET compiler too, but it never materialized
>> unfortunately. Oh well.
>>
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 28, 2008 11:36am, Stefan Gonick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > said:
>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm here and contin

RE: Witango-Talk: Re: is witango alive?

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Stefan,

That's an interesting observation. I did the opposite. I was actually doing 
ColdFusion prior to starting in Tango, which I found was one of the reason I 
found Tango so easy to learn. The syntax and tag methodologies are very similar.

PHP is not too dissimilar as well I think, given that all three are interpreted 
languages.

I guess the difference with PHP is that additional architecture features have 
been bolted on to PHP since its original design, and of course many serious 
developers want to take advantage of that. I think PHP apps can even be 
compiled now if I'm not mistaken, but maybe I have that wrong?

With ASP.NET for example, it's not an interpreted language (classic ASP was), 
it's compiled. And given that it's integrated with IIS to create a real 
application server, the underlying architecture that handles the code execution 
is very different than ColdFusion, Tango or PHP. Java is also in this class of 
architecture, to a degree. This makes the transition from Tango to ASP.NET much 
more challenging.

I've converted many Tango apps to ASP.NET for myself and other folks, and as 
long as you know both languages well, the transposing of the code is reasonably 
painless.

I guess the key is, depending on where you're heading, is to learn your new 
platform first before the conversion, and just don't assume as you start out 
that it'll be just like Tango.

For those not interested in PHP, I would checkout the conversion tool in 
Witango that compiles to Java. I haven't used it myself, but I bet that would 
fast track anybody's learning curve to a deeper application architecture very 
much.

When Phil first proposed the Java compiler apparently there was plans for a 
.NET compiler too, but it never materialized unfortunately. Oh well.


Scott,


On Monday, January 28, 2008 11:36am, Stefan Gonick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm here and continuing to program in Witango for my existing clients.
> 
> I found it very interesting to read how hard it is to convert a
> Witango application
> to PHP since I don't know PHP.  Years ago I learned ColdFusion and converted
> a Witango application back then.
> 
> I found it extremely easy to do the conversion. The two languages were very
> compatible in how they did things. In fact, mostly all I did was promote the
> html result actions into their own pages and substitute equivalent CF
> tags for the
> Witango ones. Obviously, I had to add the sql query at the top of the page, 
> but
> I even used the View SQL command of the search action to get a head start on
> that. It was very quick and easy.
> 
> I later did a CF application from scratch but actually found development to go
> faster by using the search and new record builders in the Witango
> editor and then
> convert the results to CF!  Pretty cool. :)  Anyway, I just thought
> that I would share
> my experience of the compatibility between CF and Witango.
> 
> I appreciate this thread. I've been wondering if Witango is alive
> lately myself. A major
> part of what has been making me wonder about the viability of Witango
> is the lack of
> news from With. It would be great if they would chip in at some point...
> 
> Best to all,
> Stefan
> 
> =
> Database WebWorks: Dynamic web sites through database integration
> http://www.DatabaseWebWorks.com
> 
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: [OT] Anti-virus recommendations?

[Scott Cadillac]

Thank you everyone for your feedback.

And thanks for the link Ben, I see NOD32 is listed as 3rd place with these 
guys, right after Kapersky. BitDefender was also my initial second choice.

I found this quote interesting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOD32

"...NOD32 is written largely in assembly code [2], which contributes to its low 
use of system resources and high scanning speed. NOD32 can process more than 
23MB per second while scanning on a P4 based PC [3] and, on average, uses less 
than 20MB of memory in total. [1] The physical RAM used is often just a third 
of that.[4]
According to a 2005 Virus Bulletin test, NOD32 performs scans two to five times 
faster than other antivirus competitors"

And I like the sounds of the Remote administrator feature in the business 
version. But I'll give everyone's recommendations a quick spin and see how they 
go.

My needs are just for my home/dev network where I have 4 workstations and one 
server I use just for staging my development work. Fortunately I leave the 
production shielding up to my customers.

Oh, and I have 2 Macs, but I don't worry about those ;-)

All the best, and thank you again.

Scott,


On Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:29pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

> you can go here for a good list,
> http://anti-virus-software-review.toptenreviews.com/kaspersky-review.html
> 
> I have used AVG Pro, it is light weight and has stopped
> everything, it is probably lower down on this list because
> there are a couple of features it is lacking in, but what it
> doesnt lack in is protection.
> 
> Kapersky is another one, the price has come down to pair up
> with AVG, but I have heard favorable.
> 
> I have stuck with AVG because they still have the free
> version, that I use when I go to a friends or customer and
> they are having trouble I just download the AVG Free and it
> cleans them up.
> 
> your mileage may very
> 
> Ben
> 
> - Original Message Follows -
> From: "Scott Cadillac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Witango-Talk" 
> Subject: Witango-Talk: [OT] Anti-virus recommendations?
> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:38:49 -0400 (AST)
> 
>>Hi,I've used F-Prot for many many years, and for most of
>>that it was a great product. Very light-weight, unobtrusive
>>and did it's job in a very straight-forward way without
>>cluttering up my systems with unnecessary extras like a
>>replacement firewall or phishing sniffing my HTTP traffic
>>(I practice safe internet, eh). But the last couple
>>versions have been more resource hungry than I like, and
>>it's catching more false-positives than I care for, and it
>>crashes sometimes on start-up and shut-down.And because my
>>F-Prot subscription is up soon I've been looking around for
>>some alternatives to try.After doing a bit of research I'm
>>interested in NOD32 http://www.eset.com/ - the Anti-virus
>>Business version.I also found this comparison study
>>interesting, but I have no idea of the
>>legitimacy.http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse
>>_2007_11.phpAny thoughts anyone?Thank you in advance for
>>your time.Scott,
>>___
>>_ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to
>>http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
>>
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Witango-Talk: [OT] Anti-virus recommendations?

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi,

I've used F-Prot for many many years, and for most of that it was a great 
product. Very light-weight, unobtrusive and did it's job in a very 
straight-forward way without cluttering up my systems with unnecessary extras 
like a replacement firewall or phishing sniffing my HTTP traffic (I practice 
safe internet, eh). But the last couple versions have been more resource hungry 
than I like, and it's catching more false-positives than I care for, and it 
crashes sometimes on start-up and shut-down.

And because my F-Prot subscription is up soon I've been looking around for some 
alternatives to try.

After doing a bit of research I'm interested in NOD32 http://www.eset.com/ - 
the Anti-virus Business version.

I also found this comparison study interesting, but I have no idea of the 
legitimacy.

http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse_2007_11.php

Any thoughts anyone?

Thank you in advance for your time.

Scott,


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: is witango alive?

[Scott Cadillac]

Good on you Chuck, .NET is sweet.

The learning curve can be steep, but the payoff just keeps paying :-)

All the best to everyone.

Scott,

Sent from my iPod


On 25-Jan-08, at 7:48 PM, "Chuck Lockwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:


I'm here, supporting a couple of big Witango apps and doing new  
stuff in

.NET

I agree with Rick, the list is now seasoned developers no longer  
pushing the

"witango envelope".

Nice to see people checking in though 

Chuck Lockwood
LockData Technologies

-----Original Message-
From: Scott Cadillac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 3:03 PM
To: witango-talk@witango.com
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: is witango alive?


Maybe "no news is good news" as far as the list being quiet.

Nobody is reporting problems, maybe things are just working smoothly
for everyone (:


Either that or everybody else has left...

Maybe we should have a roll-call?

PRESENT, and I brought my pencil ;-)


Scott,











TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf









TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf



TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: is witango alive?

[Scott Cadillac]

> Maybe "no news is good news" as far as the list being quiet.
> 
> Nobody is reporting problems, maybe things are just working smoothly
> for everyone (:

Either that or everybody else has left...

Maybe we should have a roll-call?

PRESENT, and I brought my pencil ;-)


Scott,







TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf

Re: Witango-Talk: [OT] Audio system with multiple inputs

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Robert,

Thank you for the email and links. I appreciate the time you took to look this 
up.

Yesterday I got an off-list email from Steve Deutschendorf who sent me a link 
to this:

http://www.audio-discounters.com/mm-242.html

Which is a similar type of mixer. It's smaller so is probably better suited to 
keeping things simple and orderly on my desk. It still surprises me that nobody 
makes a unit exclusively for multi-computer setups, something with an office 
desk form-factor and just 1/8 inch jacks. Oh well.

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. Now I just need to find a 
Canadian distributor :-\

Happy New Year! May it be a great one!

Scott,


On Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:30am, Robert Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> I used to do something similar, and I had a great mackie mixer that
> did a great job. Mackie makes great stuff, and not to expensive,
> something like this:
> 
> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MACDFX6
> 
> and adapters to connect:
> 
> http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSYPR102
> 
> http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSCMP15
> 
> --
> 
> Robert Garcia
> President - BigHead Technology
> VP Application Development - eventpix.com
> 13653 West Park Dr
> Magalia, Ca 95954
> ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/
> 
> On Dec 28, 2007, at 7:25 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote:
> 
>> Hi Sri,
>>
>> I don't think we've heard from you for a while. Keeping busy?
>>
>>> This will allow you to listen to all the channels
>>> simultaneously (cacophony in my opinion, but hey, I am not the one
>>> listening!)
>>
>> It's not so much that I want to listen to multiple streams of music
>> at once, it's more that I want to hear the various sound prompts
>> from the computers whenever they happen, audio from videos like
>> YouTube, and the background sound therapy I have on (special white-
>> noise at low volume) while listening to music (I don't always use
>> the same machine for playing music or video, and I have more desktop
>> than laptops these days).
>>
>> I can do it now, but it means 3 sets of speakers crowding my desk,
>> and then physically unplugging and plugging cables if I want to tune
>> in my short-wave radio onto a decent set of speakers, and stuff like
>> that.
>>
>> Thank you for the detailed description of how to build all this. I
>> used to love doing this stuff when I was kid - but I honestly don't
>> know if I would ever have the time or patience to build this now
>> (aside from work, I'm also renovating a 100 year old house), so I
>> respectfully express my gratitude Sri, but decline your generous
>> offer.
>>
>> There must be something ready made from somebody that does something
>> this simple? 4 or more small audio input jacks, with some measure of
>> volume control for each, to produce one "mixed" level of audio
>> output to one set of speakers.
>>
>> I appreciate your reply, and sorry if I haven't been more clear on
>> what I was looking for. Thanks.
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 28, 2007 2:12am, Sri Amudhanar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> said:
>>
>>> I used to do a lot of electronics a long time ago. Here is a simple
>>> way
>>> to do what you want to do:
>>> Buy some 4.7 Kilo Ohm resistors (say 10) by mail order. Solder one
>>> end
>>> of 5 resistors together and hook this common point to input of the
>>> left
>>> channel in you amplifier.
>>> Do the same for the right channel. Now each free end of the resistors
>>> becomes an independent input for any source you choose. Take left and
>>> right channel pairs and hook them up to shiny gold plated RCA
>>> connectors, and mount the connectors on the terminal box. You can
>>> build
>>> this passive mixer for a few bucks. Purists consider this type of
>>> mixers
>>> the best because not being active (no transistors) they don't
>>> contribute
>>> distortion. It does cut the max volume down a bit, but when did you
>>> ever
>>> play full blast? If you are picky, reduce the resistor to 1K Ohm.
>>> Of course you also need a ground line (or return path for each
>>> channel
>>> (for each source from each connector)). If you are working with
>>> only a
>>> few sources the wiring doesn't get too complicated.
>>> You control the master volume from the main amplifier. You control
>>> the
>>> ind

Re: Witango-Talk: [OT] Audio system with multiple inputs

[Scott Cadillac]

Hi Sri,

I don't think we've heard from you for a while. Keeping busy?

> This will allow you to listen to all the channels
> simultaneously (cacophony in my opinion, but hey, I am not the one
> listening!)

It's not so much that I want to listen to multiple streams of music at once, 
it's more that I want to hear the various sound prompts from the computers 
whenever they happen, audio from videos like YouTube, and the background sound 
therapy I have on (special white-noise at low volume) while listening to music 
(I don't always use the same machine for playing music or video, and I have 
more desktop than laptops these days). 

I can do it now, but it means 3 sets of speakers crowding my desk, and then 
physically unplugging and plugging cables if I want to tune in my short-wave 
radio onto a decent set of speakers, and stuff like that.

Thank you for the detailed description of how to build all this. I used to love 
doing this stuff when I was kid - but I honestly don't know if I would ever 
have the time or patience to build this now (aside from work, I'm also 
renovating a 100 year old house), so I respectfully express my gratitude Sri, 
but decline your generous offer.

There must be something ready made from somebody that does something this 
simple? 4 or more small audio input jacks, with some measure of volume control 
for each, to produce one "mixed" level of audio output to one set of speakers.

I appreciate your reply, and sorry if I haven't been more clear on what I was 
looking for. Thanks.

Scott,


On Friday, December 28, 2007 2:12am, Sri Amudhanar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> I used to do a lot of electronics a long time ago. Here is a simple way
> to do what you want to do:
> Buy some 4.7 Kilo Ohm resistors (say 10) by mail order. Solder one end
> of 5 resistors together and hook this common point to input of the left
> channel in you amplifier.
> Do the same for the right channel. Now each free end of the resistors
> becomes an independent input for any source you choose. Take left and
> right channel pairs and hook them up to shiny gold plated RCA
> connectors, and mount the connectors on the terminal box. You can build
> this passive mixer for a few bucks. Purists consider this type of mixers
> the best because not being active (no transistors) they don't contribute
> distortion. It does cut the max volume down a bit, but when did you ever
> play full blast? If you are picky, reduce the resistor to 1K Ohm.
> Of course you also need a ground line (or return path for each channel
> (for each source from each connector)). If you are working with only a
> few sources the wiring doesn't get too complicated.
> You control the master volume from the main amplifier. You control the
> individual sources from the volume control of the sources themselves (if
> you use speaker or headset outputs of the sources). So you have all the
> flexibility. This will allow you to listen to all the channels
> simultaneously (cacophony in my opinion, but hey, I am not the one
> listening!), just like the volume controls on your computer based mixer
> with CD, AUX, MIC, MIDI and PCM inputs.
> If you are seriously interested and verbal description is not working,
> express your displeasure and I will make a drawing.
> Have fun.
> Sri Amudhanar
> Maxys Corporation
> Ashburn, VA
> 
> Scott Cadillac wrote:
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> Thank you for your time on the search. I think what I need is something more 
>> like
>> this unit:
>>
>> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&summary=summary&cp=&productId=2104026&accessories=accessories&kw=audio+mixer&techSpecs=techSpecs¤tTab=summary&custRatings=custRatings&sr=1&features=features&origkw=audio+mixer&support=support&tab=techSpecs
>>
>> Where all the inputs are active at the same time, not just a single one 
>> switched
>> on. I'd have to get line adapters and a mess of cables though - I guess I was
>> just hoping for something that was "ready made" for the small stereo jacks 
>> and
>> impedance rating that computers and small devices like the iPod output.
>>
>> I miss Radio Shack. They were my favorite store when I was kid, but they left
>> Canada a few years ago. Unfortunately the online Radio shack doesn't ship to
>> Canada directly. The chain that replaced them him is sub-par and don't carry 
>> all
>> the same stuff.
>>
>> Oh well, I appreciate the effort, I'll keep searching. Thank you.
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:07pm, Robert Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> said:
>>
> 
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
> 
> 


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf