Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 05:03:21PM -0700, Brandon High wrote: Supermicro has a 3 x 5.25 bay rack that holds 5 x 3.5 drives. This doesn't leave space for a optical drive, but I used a USB drive to install the OS and don't need it anymore. I've had such a bay rack for years, and it survived one big tower, and is now dwelling in a cheap Sharkoon case. The fan is a bit noisy, but then, the server is behind a couple of doors, and serves the house LAN. It's currently running Linux, but has already a FreeNAS on an IDE DOM preinstalled. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:28 AM, rwali...@washdcmail.com wrote: On Sep 29, 2009, at 2:41 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 06:04:01PM -0400, Thomas Burgess wrote: personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. You don't like http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/chassis_storage.cfm ? I must admit I don't have a price list of these. When running that many hard drives I would insist on redundant power supplies, and server motherboards with ECC memory. Unless it's for home use, where a downtime of days or weeks is not critical. I hadn't thought of going that way because I was looking for at least a somewhat pre-packaged system, but another posted pointed out how many more drives I could get by choosing case/motherboard separately. I agree, with this much trouble it doesn't make sense to settle for fewer drive slots than I can get. For the money, it's a much better option. you'll be able to afford many more drives. In my opinion, for a home system, the more you can save on the case and power supply, the more hard drives you can buy. Right now 1 TB and 1.5 TB drives seem to be the best. I used 1 TB drives and 2 compact flash cards for the os (with sata to compact flash adapters) They are really small and easy to find a place to mount, which allows you to use the hotswap bays for even more storage. I agree completely with the ECC. It's for home use, so the power supply issue isn't huge (though if it's possible that's a plus). My concern with this particular option is noise. It will be in a closet, but one with louvered doors right off a room where people watch TV. Anything particularly loud would be an issue. The comments on Newegg make this sound pretty loud. Have you tried one outside of a server room environment? Yes, ecc is nice. They also sell dual powersupplies that FIT in a single atx slot. Just look around. The noise isn't THAT bad. If you have it in a closet i'll be very surprised if it's a problem, that's exactly what i do and it's in the SAME room as the tv and i don't notice it. I have 2 norco 4020's in there and 2 more 2u servers, one is running my router software (openbsd with pf) and the other is an older hp proliant box I don't have a problem at all with the noise. I highly recommend that case. It's not designed to be quiet, but if you replace the stock fans with low noise fans, it's much much much more quiet than you'd think. and it's designed well enough to keep the drives cool. It's perfect for home and small office use, and will allow you to put more money into buying storage, which is the POINT of what you are doing ANYWAYS. Thanks, Ware ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Wed, September 30, 2009 07:14, Thomas Burgess wrote: For the money, it's a much better option. you'll be able to afford many more drives. In my opinion, for a home system, the more you can save on the case and power supply, the more hard drives you can buy. Right now 1 TB and 1.5 TB drives seem to be the best. I used 1 TB drives and 2 compact flash cards for the os (with sata to compact flash adapters) They are really small and easy to find a place to mount, which allows you to use the hotswap bays for even more storage. I've been running a home ZFS server for a while now; mine currently has two two-way mirrors of 400GB disks, i.e. 800GB usable data space. I've got a couple hundred GB free currently. This server holds my music collection, plus my digital photography, plus what's scanned of my film photography, plus my ebook collection, plus the usual random personal files c. And it serves as a backup pool for several laptops. I can see that people heavily active in live audio or (especially) video recording would fill disks considerably faster than my still photography does (about 12MB per image, before I start editing it and storing extra copies). But I have to say that I'm finding the size NAS boxes people are building for what they call home use to be rather startling. I'm using 4 400GB disks with 100% redundancy; lots of people are talking about using 8 or more 1TB or bigger disks with 25% redundancy. That's a hugely bigger pool! Do you actually fill up that space? With what? I've got 8 hot-swap bays but only 6 controller channels on the motherboard. And I'm using two of those for the boot disks. I've thought about going away from rotating disks for boot, to something like CF cards, or USB. USB is slow, but will that hurt me any when the system is being a file server? What going to USB does for me is free up two SATA controllers, so I can expand my pool without buying another controller and messing about inside the box. Also, I don't need a mirrored pool for boot if it's a cheap USB drive and I can keep a spare copy or two, and just swap them if there's any problem with the first one. -- David Dyer-Bennet, d...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:48 AM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote: On Wed, September 30, 2009 07:14, Thomas Burgess wrote: For the money, it's a much better option. you'll be able to afford many more drives. In my opinion, for a home system, the more you can save on the case and power supply, the more hard drives you can buy. Right now 1 TB and 1.5 TB drives seem to be the best. I used 1 TB drives and 2 compact flash cards for the os (with sata to compact flash adapters) They are really small and easy to find a place to mount, which allows you to use the hotswap bays for even more storage. I've been running a home ZFS server for a while now; mine currently has two two-way mirrors of 400GB disks, i.e. 800GB usable data space. I've got a couple hundred GB free currently. This server holds my music collection, plus my digital photography, plus what's scanned of my film photography, plus my ebook collection, plus the usual random personal files c. And it serves as a backup pool for several laptops. I can see that people heavily active in live audio or (especially) video recording would fill disks considerably faster than my still photography does (about 12MB per image, before I start editing it and storing extra copies). But I have to say that I'm finding the size NAS boxes people are building for what they call home use to be rather startling. I'm using 4 400GB disks with 100% redundancy; lots of people are talking about using 8 or more 1TB or bigger disks with 25% redundancy. That's a hugely bigger pool! Do you actually fill up that space? With what? I've got 8 hot-swap bays but only 6 controller channels on the motherboard. And I'm using two of those for the boot disks. I've thought about going away from rotating disks for boot, to something like CF cards, or USB. USB is slow, but will that hurt me any when the system is being a file server? What going to USB does for me is free up two SATA controllers, so I can expand my pool without buying another controller and messing about inside the box. Also, I don't need a mirrored pool for boot if it's a cheap USB drive and I can keep a spare copy or two, and just swap them if there's any problem with the first one. i fill mine up with TV shows and Movies. I have a LOT of hd stuff, 1080p and 720p A 1080p Movie can take up from 8 gb to 20 gb depending on encoding. I'm a digital packrack. I've replaced cable with a ZFS backed network of htpcs running xbmc on the ionitx boards. Each htpc uses about 30 watts of power peak and does 1080p without a problem. each box also has a dvd player in it if we want to watch an old dvd. I also have rtorrent running using rss to grab all the new shows, which normally show up a few minutes to an hour after they air. I've got them set to automatically sort and placed in the correct spot. It's easy to fill up many tb's of space with whole seasons of 720p and 1080p TV, and hundreds of movies. Using xbmc and some of the wonderful skins you can make some amazing alternatives to cable. I just got tired of channel surfing. Also, i use my multi TB system to run rsync backups on all the computers i care about. Snapshots allow me to return to any day I'm also saving right now to build a backup system to have a second copy of the stuff i don't want to lose. I also try not to go over 50-70% full. when i get that full i start looking at ways to upgrade. I started with linux and an xfs based system on a single tb drive and just kept expanding it...when i found out about ZFS i knew that was the way to go. I can't stand to delete the stuff i have unless i find better copies...so as long as there is new stuff coming out, i'll probably keep expanding my system. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
Heh :-) Disk usage is directly related to available space. At home I have a 4x1Tb raidz filled to overflowing with music, photos, movies, archives, and backups for 4 other machines in the house. I'll be adding another 4 and an SSD shortly. It starts with importing CDs into iTunes or WMP, then comes the TV recordings, then comes ripping your DVD collection... Hey disk is cheap, right? Once you have gotten out of the habit of using shiny discs for music, video is a logical progression. You also stop being finicky about minimizing file space - I've gone from high quality mp3 to lossless formats. I also have some colleagues that have Flip Mimos and equivalents that capture 720p video and that just chews through disk space. Those 12Mb shots of baby taking his/her first steps are now multi gigabyte raw video files. Trust me, it's easy. Erik On 30 sept. 2009, at 16:48, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: I can see that people heavily active in live audio or (especially) video recording would fill disks considerably faster than my still photography does (about 12MB per image, before I start editing it and storing extra copies). But I have to say that I'm finding the size NAS boxes people are building for what they call home use to be rather startling. I'm using 4 400GB disks with 100% redundancy; lots of people are talking about using 8 or more 1TB or bigger disks with 25% redundancy. That's a hugely bigger pool! Do you actually fill up that space? With what? ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Ware Adams rwali...@washdcmail.com wrote: SuperMicro 7046A-3 Workstation http://supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7046/SYS-7046A-3.cfm I'm using a SuperChassis 743TQ-865B-SQ for my home NAS, which is what that workstation uses. It's very LARGE and very quiet. Did I mention it's HUGE? I bought two more 2800 rpm fans for it. The case is designed for four but only comes with two for noise, I didn't notice an increase in sound. You can find the fans (part # FAN-0104L4) online. I think the dual socket board you chose is a bit overkill for just a NAS box. I used an ASUS motherboard because I wanted to use AMD, and went with a 4850e and 8GB ECC memory. It got me a board that supports ECC and PCI-X slots (so I could use the AOC-SAT-MV8 board). I also host some (mostly idle) VMs on the machine and they run fine. Supermicro has a 3 x 5.25 bay rack that holds 5 x 3.5 drives. This doesn't leave space for a optical drive, but I used a USB drive to install the OS and don't need it anymore. -B -- Brandon High : bh...@freaks.com If it wasn't for pacifists, we could achieve peace. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
I too went with a 5in3 case for HDDs, in a nice portable Mini-ITX case, with Intel Atom. More of a SOHO NAS for home use, rather than a beast. Still, I can get about 10TB in it. http://lundman.net/wiki/index.php/ZFS_RAID I can also recommend the embeddedSolaris project for making a small bootable Solaris. Very flexible and can put on the Admin GUIs, and so on. https://sourceforge.net/projects/embeddedsolaris/ Lund -- Jorgen Lundman | lund...@lundman.net Unix Administrator | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work) Shibuya-ku, Tokyo| +81 (0)90-5578-8500 (cell) Japan| +81 (0)3 -3375-1767 (home) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
i looked at possibly doing one of those too - but only 5 disks was too small for me. and i was too nervous about compatibility with mini-itx stuff. On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Jorgen Lundman lund...@gmo.jp wrote: I too went with a 5in3 case for HDDs, in a nice portable Mini-ITX case, with Intel Atom. More of a SOHO NAS for home use, rather than a beast. Still, I can get about 10TB in it. http://lundman.net/wiki/index.php/ZFS_RAID I can also recommend the embeddedSolaris project for making a small bootable Solaris. Very flexible and can put on the Admin GUIs, and so on. https://sourceforge.net/projects/embeddedsolaris/ Lund -- Jorgen Lundman | lund...@lundman.net Unix Administrator | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work) Shibuya-ku, Tokyo | +81 (0)90-5578-8500 (cell) Japan | +81 (0)3 -3375-1767 (home) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 06:04:01PM -0400, Thomas Burgess wrote: personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. You don't like http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/chassis_storage.cfm ? I must admit I don't have a price list of these. When running that many hard drives I would insist on redundant power supplies, and server motherboards with ECC memory. Unless it's for home use, where a downtime of days or weeks is not critical. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
I think it *IS* for home use. I like the supermicro stuff, i just personally find it to be a little pricy for a home NAS. I personally find the norco 4020's to be the best deal for a home nas. I LOVE mine. I'm about to build a second one. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 06:04:01PM -0400, Thomas Burgess wrote: personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. You don't like http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/chassis_storage.cfm? I must admit I don't have a price list of these. When running that many hard drives I would insist on redundant power supplies, and server motherboards with ECC memory. Unless it's for home use, where a downtime of days or weeks is not critical. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Sep 29, 2009, at 2:41 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 06:04:01PM -0400, Thomas Burgess wrote: personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. You don't like http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/chassis_storage.cfm ? I must admit I don't have a price list of these. When running that many hard drives I would insist on redundant power supplies, and server motherboards with ECC memory. Unless it's for home use, where a downtime of days or weeks is not critical. I hadn't thought of going that way because I was looking for at least a somewhat pre-packaged system, but another posted pointed out how many more drives I could get by choosing case/motherboard separately. I agree, with this much trouble it doesn't make sense to settle for fewer drive slots than I can get. I agree completely with the ECC. It's for home use, so the power supply issue isn't huge (though if it's possible that's a plus). My concern with this particular option is noise. It will be in a closet, but one with louvered doors right off a room where people watch TV. Anything particularly loud would be an issue. The comments on Newegg make this sound pretty loud. Have you tried one outside of a server room environment? Thanks, Ware ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 06:04:01PM -0400, Thomas Burgess wrote: personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. You don't like http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/chassis_storage.cfm ? I must admit I don't have a price list of these. I am using an SC846xxx for a project here at work. The hardware consists of an ASUS server-level motherboard with 2 quad-core Xeons, 8GB of RAM, an LSI PCI-e SAS/SATA card, and 24 1.5TB HD, all in one of these cases. The drives are in one pool with 3x 7+1 raid-z sets. Raw is 32TB, usable is about 24TB. Total price was about $6000. (It'd be about $800 less now that 1.5TB drives have dropped in price.) I built it for disk to disk backups. Right now, I'm using backuppc for backing up the OS'es of our DB servers and such, and rsync and snapshots for the databases themselves. I get about 50MB/sec read and write speeds, but I think that's because the version of the SC846 I got has a single backplane for the SAS/SATA drives, and one connector to the LSI card. Of course, for what I'm doing, that's fine. Paul Oh, I think the SC846 I got was about $1100. http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/results.aspx?key=sc846searchscope=Allsr=1Find+it.x=0Find+it.y=0 ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
9:51am, Ware Adams wrote: On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:32 AM, p...@paularcher.org wrote: I am using an SC846xxx for a project here at work. The hardware consists of an ASUS server-level motherboard with 2 quad-core Xeons, 8GB of RAM, an LSI PCI-e SAS/SATA card, and 24 1.5TB HD, all in one of these cases. The drives are in one pool with 3x 7+1 raid-z sets. Raw is 32TB, usable is about 24TB. Total price was about $6000. (It'd be about $800 less now that 1.5TB drives have dropped in price.) If I can go with something like this it's going to be the easiest way to get lots of drives. Do you have this outside of a server room? Would the noise be manageable if say it were mounted in an enclosed rack with sound deadening? It's in a server room, but I had it here in the office while I was putting it together. The case really isn't too loud. 24 hard drives make a fair bit of noise--but I think if you had it in a closet with some soundproofing, it wouldn't be bad. And if you went with a smaller enclosure (12 drives, for instance) that would help. Paul ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
You don't like http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/chassis_storage.cfm ? I must admit I don't have a price list of these. I am using an SC846xxx for a project here at work. The hardware consists of an ASUS server-level motherboard with 2 quad-core Xeons, 8GB of RAM, an LSI PCI-e SAS/SATA card, and 24 1.5TB HD, all in one of these cases. The drives are in one pool with 3x 7+1 raid-z sets. Raw is 32TB, usable is about 24TB. Total price was about $6000. (It'd be about $800 less now that 1.5TB drives have dropped in price.) I built it for disk to disk backups. Right now, I'm using backuppc for backing up the OS'es of our DB servers and such, and rsync and snapshots for the databases themselves. I get about 50MB/sec read and write speeds, but I think that's because the version of the SC846 I got has a single backplane for the SAS/SATA drives, and one connector to the LSI card. Of course, for what I'm doing, that's fine. Paul Oh, I think the SC846 I got was about $1100. http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/results.aspx?key=sc846searchscope=Allsr=1Find+it.x=0Find+it.y=0 One thing I forgot to mention: there is a wart with this case. The connectors for the low-profile CDROM drive are too short, and the power connector for the internal drive hits the lid of the case. I actually had to find a low-profile molex power connector for the hard drive, and I can only use the CDROM drive if I open the case up and loosen the internal hard drive so I can plug the CDROM in. Otherwise, though, the case is very well built. Paul ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009, rwali...@washdcmail.com wrote: I agree completely with the ECC. It's for home use, so the power supply issue isn't huge (though if it's possible that's a plus). My concern with this particular option is noise. It will be in a closet, but one with louvered doors right off a room where people watch TV. Anything particularly loud would be an issue. The comments on Newegg make this sound pretty loud. Have you tried one outside of a server room environment? Definitely lose the louvered doors and install solid-core doors. I have most of my stuff in a large closet. There is 8 ducting and duplex ventilation fans (Broan BRO-L250L, http://www.airshack.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=getproductpgmanuf=broanseries=losone%20i-in-line) to assure that there is always 250 CFM of air running through it. The fans are hung with nylon straps from the rafters in the attic so they are totally silent. With the doors open, the gigabit ethernet switch is the noisiest but the doors block that high pitched noise. If the temperature hits 82.5 degrees, then the StorageTek 2540 fans go on high and then there is audible sound outside the room. The key to silence is to keep the equipment cool enough that their fans run on low speed. If the doors were replaced with solid core doors, then there would be a lot more silence. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 07:28:13AM -0400, rwali...@washdcmail.com wrote: I agree completely with the ECC. It's for home use, so the power supply issue isn't huge (though if it's possible that's a plus). My concern with this particular option is noise. It will be in a closet, but one with louvered doors right off a room where people watch TV. Anything particularly loud would be an issue. The comments on Newegg make this sound pretty loud. Have you tried one outside of a server room environment? No, basically all rackmount gear (especially 1-2 height units) which dissipates nontrivial power is loud, since it has to maintain air flow, which at small geometries means high-rpm and high-pitched noise. I've just hauled a 3U Supermicro chassis from my office, where it has been running for a couple weeks into a server room, where such systems belongs. The only way to deal with that is watercooling, or operating the thing out of your earshot (cellar, etc). There are large enclosures with large, slow-moving fans which are suitable for the living room, but I doubt you can miss 16-24 drives in action. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Tue, September 29, 2009 01:41, Eugen Leitl wrote: Unless it's for home use, where a downtime of days or weeks is not critical. I hate to think what would happen if I were to tell my housemates that critical services would be down for a WEEK! -- David Dyer-Bennet, d...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009, Eugen Leitl wrote: No, basically all rackmount gear (especially 1-2 height units) which dissipates nontrivial power is loud, since it has to maintain air flow, which at small geometries means high-rpm and high-pitched noise. I've The good news is that high-pitched noise is the easiest to block out via a server-closet. It is mostly blocked by even a panel door. Any low-pitched noise is hardest to eliminate since it is transmitted as vibration. The key here is to isolate the vibration. Using an equipment rack helps but there could be transmission via the floor. Hanging everything via the nylon straps that you will find in the plumbing/AC section of the hardware store is by far the best way to eliminate transmission of vibration. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
Hello, I have been researching building a home storage server based on OpenSolaris and ZFS, and I would appreciate any time people could take to comment on my current leanings. I've tried to gather old information from this list as well as the HCL, but I would welcome anyone's experience on both compatibility and appropriateness for my goals. I'd love if that white box server wiki page were set up now, but for now I'll have to just ask here. My priorities: 1) Data security. I'm hoping I can get this via ECC RAM and enterprise drives that hopefully don't lie to ZFS about flushing to disk? I'll run mirrored pools for redundancy (which leads me to want a case w/a lot of bays). 2) Compatibility. For me this translates into low upkeep cost (time). I'm not looking to be the first person to get OpenSolaris running on some particular piece of hardware. 3) Scaleable. I'd like to not have to upgrade every year. I can always use something like an external JBOD array, but there's some appeal to having enough space in the case for reasonable growth. I'd also like to have enough performance to keep up with scaling data volume and ZFS features. 4) Ability to run some other (lightweight) services on the box. I'll be using NFS (iTunes libraries for OS X clients) and iSCSI (Time Machine backups) primarily, but my current home server also runs a few small services (MySQL etc...) that are very lightweight but nevertheless might be difficult to do on a ZFS (or ZFS like) appliance 5) Cost. All things being equal cheaper is better, but I'm willing to pay more to accomplish particularly 1-3 above. My current thinking: SuperMicro 7046A-3 Workstation http://supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7046/SYS-7046A-3.cfm 8 hot swappable drive bays (SAS or SATA, I'd use SATA) Network/Main board/SAS/SATA controllers seem well supported by OpenSolaris Will take IPMI card for remote admin (with video and iso redirection) 12 RAM slots so I can buy less dense chips 2x 5.25 drive bays. I'd use a SuperMicro Mobile Rack M14T (http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/mobilerack/CSE-M14.cfm ) to get 4 2.5 SAS drives in one of these. 2 would be used for a mirrored boot pool leaving 2 for potential future use (like a ZIL on SSD). Nehalem E5520 CPU These are clearly more than enough now, but I'm hoping to have decent CPU performance for say 5 years (and I'm willing to pay for it up front vs. upgrading every 2 years...I don't want this to be too time consuming of a hobby). I'd like to have processor capacity for compression and (hopefully reasonably soon) de-duplication as well as obviously support ECC RAM. Crucial RAM in 4 GB density (price scales linearly up through this point and I've had good support from Crucial) Seagate Barracuda ES.2 1TB SATA (Model ST31000340NS) for storage pool. I would like to use a larger drive, but I can't find anything rated to run 24x7 larger than 1TB from Seagate. I'd like to have drives rated for 24x7 use, and I've had good experience w/Seagate. Again, a larger case gives me some flexibility here. Misc (mainly interested in compatibility b/c it will hardly be used): Sun XVR-100 video card from eBay Syba SY-PCI45004 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124025 ) IDE card for CD-ROM Sony DDU1678A (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827131061 ) CD-ROM Thanks a lot for any thoughts you might have. --Ware ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
This seems like you're doing an awful lot of planning for only 8 SATA + 4 SAS bays? I agree - SOHO usage of ZFS is still a scary will this work? deal. I found a working setup and I cloned it. It gives me 16x SATA + 2x SATA for mirrored boot, 4GB ECC RAM and a quad core processor - total cost without disks was ~ $1k I believe. Not too shabby. Emphasis was also for acoustics - rack dense would be great but my current living situation doesn't warrant that. The noisiest components are the 5-in-3 chassis used in the front of the case. I have to keep the fans on high (I tried to swap out for larger, quieter fans, but could not get the fan alarm to shut up) or they go over Seagate's recommended = 50 degrees. I really should post my parts list up on my blog. I had to choose everything to the best of my research online and hope for the best. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Ware Adams rwali...@washdcmail.com wrote: Hello, I have been researching building a home storage server based on OpenSolaris and ZFS, and I would appreciate any time people could take to comment on my current leanings. I've tried to gather old information from this list as well as the HCL, but I would welcome anyone's experience on both compatibility and appropriateness for my goals. I'd love if that white box server wiki page were set up now, but for now I'll have to just ask here. My priorities: 1) Data security. I'm hoping I can get this via ECC RAM and enterprise drives that hopefully don't lie to ZFS about flushing to disk? I'll run mirrored pools for redundancy (which leads me to want a case w/a lot of bays). 2) Compatibility. For me this translates into low upkeep cost (time). I'm not looking to be the first person to get OpenSolaris running on some particular piece of hardware. 3) Scaleable. I'd like to not have to upgrade every year. I can always use something like an external JBOD array, but there's some appeal to having enough space in the case for reasonable growth. I'd also like to have enough performance to keep up with scaling data volume and ZFS features. 4) Ability to run some other (lightweight) services on the box. I'll be using NFS (iTunes libraries for OS X clients) and iSCSI (Time Machine backups) primarily, but my current home server also runs a few small services (MySQL etc...) that are very lightweight but nevertheless might be difficult to do on a ZFS (or ZFS like) appliance 5) Cost. All things being equal cheaper is better, but I'm willing to pay more to accomplish particularly 1-3 above. My current thinking: SuperMicro 7046A-3 Workstation http://supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7046/SYS-7046A-3.cfm 8 hot swappable drive bays (SAS or SATA, I'd use SATA) Network/Main board/SAS/SATA controllers seem well supported by OpenSolaris Will take IPMI card for remote admin (with video and iso redirection) 12 RAM slots so I can buy less dense chips 2x 5.25 drive bays. I'd use a SuperMicro Mobile Rack M14T (http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/mobilerack/CSE-M14.cfm) to get 4 2.5 SAS drives in one of these. 2 would be used for a mirrored boot pool leaving 2 for potential future use (like a ZIL on SSD). Nehalem E5520 CPU These are clearly more than enough now, but I'm hoping to have decent CPU performance for say 5 years (and I'm willing to pay for it up front vs. upgrading every 2 years...I don't want this to be too time consuming of a hobby). I'd like to have processor capacity for compression and (hopefully reasonably soon) de-duplication as well as obviously support ECC RAM. Crucial RAM in 4 GB density (price scales linearly up through this point and I've had good support from Crucial) Seagate Barracuda ES.2 1TB SATA (Model ST31000340NS) for storage pool. I would like to use a larger drive, but I can't find anything rated to run 24x7 larger than 1TB from Seagate. I'd like to have drives rated for 24x7 use, and I've had good experience w/Seagate. Again, a larger case gives me some flexibility here. Misc (mainly interested in compatibility b/c it will hardly be used): Sun XVR-100 video card from eBay Syba SY-PCI45004 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124025) IDE card for CD-ROM Sony DDU1678A (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827131061) CD-ROM Thanks a lot for any thoughts you might have. --Ware ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
On Sep 28, 2009, at 4:20 PM, Michael Shadle wrote: I agree - SOHO usage of ZFS is still a scary will this work? deal. I found a working setup and I cloned it. It gives me 16x SATA + 2x SATA for mirrored boot, 4GB ECC RAM and a quad core processor - total cost without disks was ~ $1k I believe. Not too shabby. Emphasis was also for acoustics - rack dense would be great but my current living situation doesn't warrant that This sounds interesting. Do you have any info on it (case you started with, etc...). I'm concerned about noise too as this will be in a closet close to the room where our television is. Currently there is a MacPro in there which isn't terribly quiet, but the SuperMicro case is reported to be fairly quiet. Thanks, Ware ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
Yeah - give me a bit to rope together the parts list and double check it, and I will post it on my blog. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Ware Adams rwali...@washdcmail.com wrote: On Sep 28, 2009, at 4:20 PM, Michael Shadle wrote: I agree - SOHO usage of ZFS is still a scary will this work? deal. I found a working setup and I cloned it. It gives me 16x SATA + 2x SATA for mirrored boot, 4GB ECC RAM and a quad core processor - total cost without disks was ~ $1k I believe. Not too shabby. Emphasis was also for acoustics - rack dense would be great but my current living situation doesn't warrant that This sounds interesting. Do you have any info on it (case you started with, etc...). I'm concerned about noise too as this will be in a closet close to the room where our television is. Currently there is a MacPro in there which isn't terribly quiet, but the SuperMicro case is reported to be fairly quiet. Thanks, Ware ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
rackmount chassis aren't usually designed with acoustics in mind :) however i might be getting my closet fitted so i can put half a rack in. might switch up my configuration to rack stuff soon. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Thomas Burgess wonsl...@gmail.com wrote: personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
i own this case, it's really not that bad. It's got 4 fans but they are really big and don't make nearly as much noise as you'd think. honestly, it's not bad at all. I know someone who sits it vertically as well, honestly, it's a good case for the money On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: rackmount chassis aren't usually designed with acoustics in mind :) however i might be getting my closet fitted so i can put half a rack in. might switch up my configuration to rack stuff soon. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Thomas Burgess wonsl...@gmail.com wrote: personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Comments on home OpenSolaris/ZFS server
well when i start looking into rack configurations i will consider it. :) here's my configuration - enjoy! http://michaelshadle.com/2009/09/28/my-recipe-for-zfs-at-home/ On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Thomas Burgess wonsl...@gmail.com wrote: i own this case, it's really not that bad. It's got 4 fans but they are really big and don't make nearly as much noise as you'd think. honestly, it's not bad at all. I know someone who sits it vertically as well, honestly, it's a good case for the money On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Michael Shadle mike...@gmail.com wrote: rackmount chassis aren't usually designed with acoustics in mind :) however i might be getting my closet fitted so i can put half a rack in. might switch up my configuration to rack stuff soon. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Thomas Burgess wonsl...@gmail.com wrote: personally i like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021 it's got 20 hot swap bays, and it's surprisingly well built. For the money, it's an amazing deal. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
