Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Steve Jones
thats the brand my buddy is buying, 7k without a camera, 8k with a camera. I want it i think, but for 700 bucks On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: > Not purely GPS, I think this includes multiple compasses in it. It's a > common item for cellular sector alignment jobs, where the

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread Eric Kuhnke
It's really region/colo/datacenter and operator specific. When you know that somebody has a cage with 500 1U servers (or blades) in racks hosting adult web content, you know that their traffic ratios are like 95:5 outbound:inbound... On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > I've g

Re: [AFMUG] Good - Cost Effective MPPT Solar Controller?

2017-10-05 Thread Gino A. Villarini
Thanks for your help Gino A. Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] From: Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> Date: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 11:52 PM To: "af@afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
I've gotten them to offer me sub $0.20 transit (before $0.20 was cool), but never free. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Eric Kuhnke" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, October 5, 20

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Lewis Bergman
10k for the one we bought with all the options. It is cool though. Really cuts down there time on installs. On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, 7:38 PM Tushar Patel wrote: > How much that cost? > > > Tushar > > > On Oct 5, 2017, at 7:27 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: > > Not purely GPS, I think this includes multiple

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Tushar Patel
How much that cost? Tushar > On Oct 5, 2017, at 7:27 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: > > Not purely GPS, I think this includes multiple compasses in it. It's a common > item for cellular sector alignment jobs, where the alignment specs need to > match the carrier's SOW/PWS precisely. > > https://www

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Eric Kuhnke
Not purely GPS, I think this includes multiple compasses in it. It's a common item for cellular sector alignment jobs, where the alignment specs need to match the carrier's SOW/PWS precisely. https://www.google.com/search?q=3z+alignment+tool&oq=3z+alignment+tool&aqs=chrome.0.0l6.1959j0j7&sourceid=

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread Eric Kuhnke
several places, if you know the owners/operators of major content source ISPs (dedicated hosting/VPS/virtual server/colocation/rack & cage colo) that have extremely heavy outbound:inbound traffic ratios, like 9:1 ratio or more. adding a new customer to the same ASN, consisting of a downstream WISP

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
Where is transit zero? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:30:57 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread chuck
I know of one case where it is zero now. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:24 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions M

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
It won't hit zero, the metric will just shift to gigabit. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:18:15 PM Subject: Re: [A

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread chuck
The trend is toward zero. Just port charges. Just like long distance did 10 years ago. From: Josh Reynolds Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:16 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of b

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread Josh Reynolds
You may be paying in the lowest rate bracket for the amount of bandwidth. I've never heard anything lower unless you were in the 100G+ bracket. On Oct 5, 2017 5:21 PM, wrote: I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg... *From:* Chris Fabien *Sent:* Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM *To:* af@afmug.

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread chuck
I pay rates lower than 5 cents per meg... From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 3:59 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution! For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually sounds pretty reasonable to get you i

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

2017-10-05 Thread Chris Fabien
For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that actually sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the 100-300 meg range. You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are buying a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive m

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
I meant receivers. I said that the first time around, though. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Bill Prince" To: "Motorola III" Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 2:19:54 PM Subject:

Re: [AFMUG] Dumb router question.

2017-10-05 Thread Seth Mattinen
On 10/5/17 12:04, Jay Weekley wrote: The router circled belongs to a customer.  Am I reading that the router is broadcasting in channels one and five for a total of a 40 MHz wide channel? Yes, extension channel.

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Chuck McCown
The right kind can. From: Steve Jones Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 1:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$? my huge none knowledge of gps was that its got a variance of up to ten feet. If thats the case is it a consistent offset so if two receivers are 24 i

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Bill Prince
Multiple servers? You mean multiple antennas? -bp On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > The GPS in tractors (with the help of RTK) has repeatable sub-inch > accuracy. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions >

Re: [AFMUG] Dumb router question.

2017-10-05 Thread Bill Prince
That's what it looks like to me. -bp On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Jay Weekley wrote: > The router circled belongs to a customer. Am I reading that the router is > broadcasting in channels one and five for a total of a 40 MHz wide channel? > -- -- bp part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Jaime Solorza
And Compass app on phone On Oct 5, 2017 1:10 PM, "Josh Reynolds" wrote: > Use a compass with a mils scale instead of degrees. Away from the tower, > as the tower will skew the direction. > > There are 360 degrees in a circle, but there are 6400mils in a circle. > > This is what I used to note ta

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
The GPS in tractors (with the help of RTK) has repeatable sub-inch accuracy. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Steve Jones" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 2:10:16 P

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Jaime Solorza
AirGhz is what I use...pretty accurate On Oct 5, 2017 1:10 PM, "Josh Reynolds" wrote: Use a compass with a mils scale instead of degrees. Away from the tower, as the tower will skew the direction. There are 360 degrees in a circle, but there are 6400mils in a circle. This is what I used to not

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Josh Reynolds
Land survey uses multiple reference points and expensive software :( On Oct 5, 2017 2:10 PM, "Steve Jones" wrote: > my huge none knowledge of gps was that its got a variance of up to ten > feet. If thats the case is it a consistent offset so if two receivers are > 24 inches apart it can calculat

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Steve Jones
my huge none knowledge of gps was that its got a variance of up to ten feet. If thats the case is it a consistent offset so if two receivers are 24 inches apart it can calculate an accurate azimuth? On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > With multiple servers it can, even when sta

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Josh Reynolds
Use a compass with a mils scale instead of degrees. Away from the tower, as the tower will skew the direction. There are 360 degrees in a circle, but there are 6400mils in a circle. This is what I used to note target azimuth relative to my position for close air support, artillery, mortars, etc.

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
With multiple servers it can, even when stationary. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Bill Prince" To: "Motorola III" Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 2:03:06 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG

[AFMUG] Dumb router question.

2017-10-05 Thread Jay Weekley
The router circled belongs to a customer. Am I reading that the router is broadcasting in channels one and five for a total of a 40 MHz wide channel?

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Bill Prince
GPS can not give you a magnetic direction unless it is moving. It knows where you are, but not which direction something else is unless it has a vector to work with (i.e. you're moving). On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > Multiple receivers. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Int

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Chuck McCown
If you have two of them separated by a known distance you can get an absolute bearing between subject to the accuracies of the two units. You have to use real time kinematic systems (RTK). It is easy to do, not easy to get accuracy. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:41

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
Multiple receivers. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Adam Moffett" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 1:41:12 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$? I

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Chuck McCown
I have one about half done. The modules I used had less resolution than were promised. So I switched to dual glonass gps and those are working better. It has been on the shelf for a bit. From: Steve Jones Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:38 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] GPS base

Re: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Adam Moffett
I didn't think GPS could give you an accurate direction unless you were moving. I could be mistaken. -- Original Message -- From: "Steve Jones" To: "af@afmug.com" Sent: 10/5/2017 2:38:05 PM Subject: [AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$? I already know the manual and visual tricks

[AFMUG] GPS based "compass? <1000$?

2017-10-05 Thread Steve Jones
I already know the manual and visual tricks Is there a reliable unit for verifying azimuth, gps is all i can assume that could do this. i see a bunch ranging 3k to 10k that i would guess work pretty well, is there anything in the 300-1000 budget range that actually works out there?

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
But an Rx amp only helps as long as the signal is sufficiently above the noise floor to being with, right? A 5 watt portable at 800 MHz from inside a building isn't going to reach very far. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-05 Thread Lewis Bergman
Transmit amps are not ever required as far as I have seen on a wide area system. Transmitters are high power enough. The receivers need help due to free space loss. We use RX amps when there are long coax runs to overcome that loss. If there are transmit combiners with a separate receive antenna an

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Chuck McCown
Not in the office. In a deposition. From: Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 10:43 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters Tried to call you.. but they said you were not there.. ! The snap adapter you have in the picture is the piece from the back side of t

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
Tried to call you.. but they said you were not there.. ! The snap adapter you have in the picture is the piece from the back side of the AF11x If you look at the picture I sent you.. that is of an AF11x mounting on the Jirous Adapter, after removing the snap adapter. So the hole patterns of

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Mathew Howard
Yeah, in your picture it doesn't look like they'll line up. If you needed to make it work in a pinch, a guy could probably just drill a new set of holes, find some longer screws and use the bracket on the radio as a spacer. On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > I think there is

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Chuck McCown
I think there is a difference in the hole pattern between the snap adapter and the radio. From: Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 10:20 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters Quick simple fix would be to create some sort of a stand-off and use longer screws t

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
>> My feed uses normal SMA, not RP-SMA. It does not matter what your connectors are.. the cables would need to be sourced by the user.. they don't come with the Radio.. Jirous supplies them with their adapter Ubnt provides them with their Dish Antenna. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Inte

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
Quick simple fix would be to create some sort of a stand-off and use longer screws to bolt the radio in place. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Mathew Howard
The slide adapter in your picture is what comes bolted to the radio, correct? So you would need an adapter that piece will slide into (the same adapter as any Ubiquiti antenna has on it)... if that's the case, I don't believe that comes with the radio (at least it didn't come with the pair we have)

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Chuck McCown
I will supply them in all future shipments. From: Gino A. Villarini Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 10:08 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters Just clarified, the plastic adapter does not come with the radio, will need to retool base to use holes in metal adapter From

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Gino A. Villarini
Just clarified, the plastic adapter does not come with the radio, will need to retool base to use holes in metal adapter From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Jeremy mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday,

Re: [AFMUG] Rice University Adds Asphalt To Speed Lithium Metal Battery Charging By 20 Times

2017-10-05 Thread Robert
So much for the "end of lithium" that someone was espousing to me last month... On 10/5/17 7:41 AM, Rory Conaway wrote: And a company called MGC just figured out how to extract Lithium profitably from brine sea water.  They have a plant being built now. Rory *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmu

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Jeremy
They sell it in a set with the 11GHz Type-N cables. Streakwave has some in stock. AF-11CA $52 On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:51 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > Hmmm... in that case.. the question would be... How do you mount the radio > to the Adapter plate. > > There needs to be a mateing adapter on you

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Chuck McCown
I presumed that snap adapter came with the radio. You bolt that to my adapter and slide/snap the radio onto it. If that is not true (that they come with the radios) I will either have to obtain a supply of the adapter or modify my mount. My feed uses normal SMA, not RP-SMA. From: Faisal I

Re: [AFMUG] receiving actual emails and digest

2017-10-05 Thread Jerry Head
http://afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af On 10/5/2017 9:28 AM, Alex Pavlos wrote: I would like to receive the actual emails from the afmug list. Thanks,

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
Hmmm... in that case.. the question would be... How do you mount the radio to the Adapter plate. There needs to be a mateing adapter on your plate side... That piece only comes with the UBNT Dish... (you can pull up the UBNT 10ghz Dish Userguide to see that ...) Jiruos adapters that we used

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Bill Prince
That implies some sort of kinetics... bp On 10/5/2017 7:45 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Without that extra spacing the radio would crash into the end of the adapter.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread chuck
No because my design presumes the adapter will be there to space the radio out away from the end of the waveguide transition. Without that extra spacing the radio would crash into the end of the adapter. From: Mathew Howard Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:42 AM To: af Subject: Re: [AFMUG]

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread chuck
I can make one. From: Jon Langeler Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:36 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters Do you have something that fits an old Dragonwave Airpair ? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. On Oct 5, 2017, at 8:58 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: Mad

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Mathew Howard
Wouldn't it work without the adapter anyway? If I'm remembering right, with the Jirous adapters, you take the snap adapter off and just bolt the radio directly to their mounting plate using the same holes... wouldn't that line up with your adapter too? On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:33 AM, wrote: > If

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
Wall Art new method of mounting radios ! The installer did this job after a few cases of Tecate ! :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Jai

[AFMUG] Cool global network stats

2017-10-05 Thread Zach Underwood
This is some of the data behind http://www.digitalattackmap.com [image: Inline image 1] -- Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) My website advance-networking.com

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
>>If that plastic slide/snap adapter is included with each radio, Affirmative ! Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: ch...@wbmfg.com > To: af@afmug.

Re: [AFMUG] Rice University Adds Asphalt To Speed Lithium Metal Battery Charging By 20 Times

2017-10-05 Thread Rory Conaway
And a company called MGC just figured out how to extract Lithium profitably from brine sea water. They have a plant being built now. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 5:18 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rice Universi

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Jon Langeler
Do you have something that fits an old Dragonwave Airpair ? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Oct 5, 2017, at 8:58 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > Made Gino some adapters so he can use AF11x radios on Remec mount antennas. > > I made the hole pattern to match a plastic slide and sna

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread Jaime Solorza
that looks broken what u talkin bout Willis Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:28 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > Picture of the Jirous Adapter attached > > rest of the answers are inline below. > > If you have any questions, feel free to call me.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapters

2017-10-05 Thread chuck
If that plastic slide/snap adapter is included with each radio, then we should be good. I designed the spacing and everything assuming that adapter would be used with each unit. From: Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:28 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: AF11x adapte

[AFMUG] receiving actual emails and digest

2017-10-05 Thread Alex Pavlos
I would like to receive the actual emails from the afmug list. Thanks, -- Alex Pavlos Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. Chicago Design Center 1250 S. Grove Ave. Ste. 100 Barrington, IL 60010 c: +1-847-652-0753 o: +1-847-387-6790

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-05 Thread Mike Hammett
Bi-directional amplifiers or only Tx? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Lewis Bergman" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:30:12 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Sho

Re: [AFMUG] Vegas Mass Shooting

2017-10-05 Thread Lewis Bergman
It is possible to replace more sites with less depending on how they are designed and what topography you are battling. We did this a number of years ago. The big key was tower top amplifiers allowed us to eliminate the extra sites without losing portable overage. Just like RadioMobile, engineerin

Re: [AFMUG] Rice University Adds Asphalt To Speed Lithium Metal Battery Charging By 20 Times

2017-10-05 Thread Josh Reynolds
Says who? :) On Oct 5, 2017 7:03 AM, "Cameron Crum" wrote: > But, isn't he whole idea of these things to get away from using the > dreaded oil? > > Look! We are making these super toxic batteries to save the planet from > the ravages of oil! And now we are making them better by adding...oil. I'm

Re: [AFMUG] Rice University Adds Asphalt To Speed Lithium Metal Battery Charging By 20 Times

2017-10-05 Thread Cameron Crum
But, isn't he whole idea of these things to get away from using the dreaded oil? Look! We are making these super toxic batteries to save the planet from the ravages of oil! And now we are making them better by adding...oil. I'm so confused... On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:58 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: