Here is how the math works. Most investors would be looking for a 10%
rate of return, maybe more in this environment. So if we calculate
how much money the meters could generate in a given year, we could
also figure out how much an investor would be willing to put up in an
upfront payment
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here is how the math works. Most investors would be looking for a 10%
rate of return, maybe more in this environment.
Bottom line via the above scenario is that the
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10
year deal with a 10% rate of return to the investor would be 8.258
million. After 10 years the meters would revert back to the town's
ownership. So using
Hopefully not boring everyone on the board with financial lingo i
will try to answer as simply as possible.
I purposefully didn't run this into perpetuity because i think it
would be absurd to give up the rights to ownership forever. Hence
my ten year term. I could have picked 30 years
The investor would want a discount for present value.
They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are
going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it
and double the money.
They may as well invest it and double their money.
--- In
the 10% takes all of that into account. Think of this as a bond to
the investor. Just like people put up a $100 to get a 4% guaranteed
return from the U.S treasury. Doubling your money requires some
risk parameters
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Or to put really simply, this is a municipal Bond structure.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the 10% takes all of that into account. Think of this as a bond
to
the investor. Just like people put up a $100 to get a 4%
guaranteed
return from the U.S
Yea I went back and read your post again and I think I see where you
put in the present value - within the difference between the 13+
million and the 8+ million.
Very interesting stuff and thanks for posting it.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Or to put
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Return in this instance is IRR but takes into account the time value
of money.
Always does.
Remember that to the investor the initial returns are
negative but the out year returns are very postive but averaged out
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The investor would want a discount for present value.
They aren't going to give you 50 cents now for 50 cents they are
going to get from a meter 10 years from now, so you can invest it
and double the money.
They
All good points. At the risk of being incestuous perhaps they
should approach MM about this setup. That way it is in each parties
best interest to make sure the area continues to improve. Maybe
that is insanity but thought i'd throw it out there
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny
So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5%
compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedright@ wrote:
The investor
$13,519,825 and 40 cents
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5%
compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@
I believe that shows that under the example we have been dealing
with today, the amount calculated for present value and rate of
return is off by a great deal if we are going to attract an investor
for a ten year period.
As the below number shows, he can throw it all in a nice safe CD and
Not necessarily.
Municipal bonds are tax free for one
Secondly, we just randomly picked a 10% return. We could increase
the return to 12% for example.
Third the paramaters around a bond can have infinite scenario's.
example, the investor and town could split the revenues over a
certain
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So if I put 8.3 million in a safe investment vehicle with 5%
compounded annually, how much would I have at the end of 10 years?
$ amount X (1 + i)^n
i = rate of interest
n = compounding periods
Let's you find the
That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been
correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the
investor.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedright@ wrote:
The bank down the street from me is closer to 5.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedright@ wrote:
I believe that shows that under the example we have been dealing
with today, the amount
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I believe that shows that under the example we have been dealing
with today, the amount calculated for present value and rate of
return is off by a great deal if we are going to attract an investor
for a ten year
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been
correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the
investor.
The math below proves its 10%. That was a given by you. Any rate would
OK hold on - let me explain
one example is 8.3 million tied up for 10 years. your 5% example.
you get 5% on 8.3 each year or $415,000
The example i gave is 8.3 million up front like your example, but
you receive 1.34 million each year that you can then re-invest in
something else.
SO, it
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's right - which is why I don't think the posts have been
correct in calling the deal as presented a 10% rate of return to the
investor.
Your example used 5%. All I was doing is showing you the math. It
proves
2 plus 2 is still 4 no matter what you do or don't do for a living.
I've had to put together many deals involving the present value of
dollars received later (that's me sticking to the law as the other
Dan said - he just forgot to inquire what type of law).
It doesn't make a bit of difference
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2 plus 2 is still 4 no matter what you do or don't do for a living.
You are not going to get an investor to hand you 8.3 million for
the
right to (maybe) receive 13.3 million over 10 years,
Ever go to AC? Or the
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2 plus 2 is still 4 no matter what you do or don't do for a living.
I've had to put together many deals involving the present value of
dollars received later (that's me sticking to the law as the other
Dan said -
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have an idea to add some revenues to those meters.
Sell ads on them.
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/
*
..thanks to both dan's, werner and jr...
here's another take from an old article:
Walk along the water and see what an American beach resort once was,
and what it can become. A crumbling casino teeters on stilts over the
sand. Hollow shells of defunct motels lie like discarded crab
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
and you can pick up the phone and talk to the muni's who have leased
their spaces to a pro company and ask how's it going..?
Or take the bull by the horns and run your own meters and figure it
out. If the current meters are
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote:
I have an idea to add some revenues to those meters.
Sell ads on them.
not a bad idea, but not it.
Yahoo! Groups
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are going to have to start doing competency hearings soon. Your
numbers are based upon 5%. Dan S (the other one) used 10% return and
that would correlate into $21.538M in 10 years. But this is not
exactly Dan's example.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
and most deals, to justify costs, raise the rate to what it's worth.
Cape may:
With the following exceptions, parking meters are in effect May 1 to
October 31, every day, from 10:00 AM to 10:00 PM. All meters are 25
cents
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Oy vey!
No, I used what the other Dan S set up.
Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285:
The present value of that stream of free cash flows (assuming a 10
year deal with a 10% rate of return to the
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedright@ wrote:
Oy vey!
No, I used what the other Dan S set up.
Here are his assumptions from his post number 43285:
The present value of that stream
Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are.
One major mistake is being made in these calculations.
10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and you
leave it compounding for all ten years. My example has a payout
each and every year and that money does
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are.
One major mistake is being made in these calculations.
And I do not think you ever said anything about $13M+ originally.
Again it was Tom's question and
That is correct. If you reinvested the 1.4 million received every
year back into an investment that yielded 10% you would get the 20+
million.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote:
Geez, i went
So 2+2 = 4 and it does matter what i do :)
Sorry but i had to, that one hurt my feelings. Its bad enough we
are in a bear market but then you tell me im a moron, hurts my
ego :)
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That is correct. If you reinvested the 1.4
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are.
One major mistake is being made in these calculations.
10% grows to 21.5 million if you never take the money out and you
leave it compounding for all ten
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Geez, i went to a meeting for an hour and here is where we are.
One major mistake is being made in these calculations.
The best way to sum it up, those spaces are worth money - either to the
city of Asbury Park or to a
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And I do not think you ever said anything about $13M+ originally.
Again it was Tom's question and example of what $8.3M would be worth
in 10 years at 5%.
Dan how many times do I have to re-post his assumptions to convince
Not exactly.
the 50 cents you receive in year one can be reinvestd at 10% for 9
years. So that grows to $1.17. Then you receive another fifty cents
in year two and that grows for 8 years to $1.07. Etc.. etc.
That means the 50 cents you realize in year 1 of the deal is worth
10x
more
You can't just multiply 1.34 million by 10 because that assumes you
never re-invest each years payout.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote:
And I do not think you ever said anything about
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So 2+2 = 4 and it does matter what i do :)
Sorry but i had to, that one hurt my feelings. Its bad enough we
are in a bear market but then you tell me im a moron, hurts my
ego :)
Hurt your feelings? It wasn't about
--put out a RFP (Request for Proposals) to bid for leasing and
management rights of the City of Asbury Park Municpal Parking System
which is any current approved pay to park stalls and additional paid
parking stalls in the future. The succesful bidder shall also have the
right to propose
I was making a JOKE.
Lighten up Francis
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 dsher4@ wrote:
So 2+2 = 4 and it does matter what i do :)
Sorry but i had to, that one hurt my feelings. Its bad enough
we
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was making a JOKE.
Lighten up Francis
Didn't know that.
I just didn't want you thinking I was peronsonalizing. You know I
don't do that.
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not exactly.
the 50 cents you receive in year one can be reinvestd at 10% for 9
years. So that grows to $1.17. Then you receive another fifty cents
in year two and that grows for 8 years to $1.07. Etc.. etc.
Now we are
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a cold.
I go see a doctor. He says I have a cold.
Is he right because of who he is, what he does or what he's read?
No. He's right because I do have a fucking cold.
If he said I didn't have one, he'd
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stick to real world terms - and your assumptions don't add up.
You
won't get an investor interested using them.
different methods to different folks.
If someone likes parking lots and future fees, it's different
NO NO NO -
Putting up 8.4 million and then receiving 1.44 million per year is a
10% return.
And by the way, you can buy extremely high quality corporate bond at
9-10% right now. So that is a real world example.
And remember these municipal bonds would be tax free.
And investors might
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And investors might require a 15% return for a high risk like
Asbury.
and again, a creative company might get MORE, applying their knowledge
and marketing to something so simple as a parking spot.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dsher4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
NO NO NO -
Putting up 8.4 million and then receiving 1.44 million per year is a
10% return.
We're just going to have to have different conclusions when we write
our prospectus;-)
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