Had a grand in spring.
Could have spent it on HiFi.
I chose the guitar.
--
Soulkeeper
-that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even
death may die.-
touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or
higher/win7(32b)/avira free
Soulkeeper;622505 Wrote:
Had a grand in spring.
Could have spent it on HiFi.
I chose the guitar.
Clap-clap-clap!
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863
Wow. That's an interesting discussion. It would simply be a lot of
hypothesis had they not in the first 5-6 minutes of the video given a
couple of demonstrations on how the ear/brain/eye can be made to hear
things that were never there in the first place.
The Led Zeppelin backwards
Curt962;621899 Wrote:
I've injected tens of thousands of my own dollars into this human
experiment over the years. I have a dog in this fight.
Not to discredit in any way some of the truly great audio components
encountered along the way, the truth remains that many simply do not
live
magiccarpetride;621488 Wrote:
because if that's true, it would apply to every other component, no?
IMO no, not necessarily.
--
darrenyeats
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.
SB3, SB Touch
SqueezeControl for
darrenyeats;621623 Wrote:
IMO no, not necessarily.
Why not?
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863
View this thread:
mlsstl;621774 Wrote:
As noted before, to the extent that any break-in adjustment is
psychologically occurring at the subliminal level, it is hardly
surprising that a person would have different responses to different
pieces of gear or that one person would not react the same as another
to
mlsstl;621802 Wrote:
A good introductory book on the subject is A Mind of Its Own: How Your
Brain Distorts and Deceives by Dr. Cordelia Fine.
But isn't brain a physical object?
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's
magiccarpetride;621804 Wrote:
But isn't brain a physical object?
It's a meta-physical object :-)
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103
- full
If you buy a piece of electronic equipment or a cable and it doesn't
sound how you hoped it would when you first fire it up... sell it. It's
broken (substandard design or implementation).
If it seems to improve after a few days... it hasn't. Your brain is
frantically adjusting to the broken
Phil Leigh;621811 Wrote:
If you buy a piece of electronic equipment or a cable and it doesn't
sound how you hoped it would when you first fire it up... sell it. It's
broken (substandard design or implementation).
If it seems to improve after a few days... it hasn't. Your brain is
magiccarpetride;621819 Wrote:
I believe you. But why would it be wrong if you get accustomed to
something and now you like it? I remember when I thought that brussell
sprouts were broken and that they taste bitter, but with adjusting I've
trained myself to like them, and now I'm fully
Perhaps a healing of micro-perforations within the structure of the
Brussel Sprout, and a time-coherent, and more harmonious release of
chemicals contained within the food-unit resulting from Inverse-Cryo
processing (cooking)
I'd say you're proving my point.
The Brussel Sprouts didn't
Phil Leigh;621828 Wrote:
Brussel sprouts were not invented by man... so they can't fit into the
broken/not broken model - they are what they are, they simply can't be
any other way.
Hi-fi on the other hand is whatever we make it to be...therefore you
shouldn't have to learn to love it.
I'd
Curt962;621834 Wrote:
Perhaps a healing of micro-perforations within the structure of the
Brussel Sprout, and a time-coherent, and more harmonious release of
chemicals contained within the food-unit resulting from Inverse-Cryo
processing (cooking)
Forgot to take the medications this
;)
--
Curt962
Transporter...TouchBoom..
Curt962's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31949
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86359
magiccarpetride;621836 Wrote:
I'd wager to say that brussel sprouts were invented by man (or woman).
There's lots of fruits and vegetables and wheat etc. that were invented
by humans, using cross pollination, grafting etc., and in this day and
age, genetic engineering.
cultivation and
Curt962;621834 Wrote:
The Brussel Sprouts didn't change...you simply grew to enjoy them.
Or bought better quality and/or coocked Brussel Sprouts.
--
johann
johann's Profile:
magiccarpetride;621804 Wrote:
But isn't brain a physical object?
A physical object yes, but it is not part of the external device that
you indicated is breaking in.
--
mlsstl
mlsstl's Profile:
mlsstl;621865 Wrote:
A physical object yes, but it is not part of the external device that
you indicated is breaking in.
Not sure the origin of that quote. All I know is that my system sounds
quite a bit different now than it did several years ago. In the
positive direction. Same basic
earwaxer9;621879 Wrote:
Not sure the origin of that quote. All I know is that my system sounds
quite a bit different now than it did several years ago. In the
positive direction. Same basic components. Wire here, cap there. The
doubters will be there. They can have their zip cord and eat it
I've injected tens of thousands of my own dollars into this human
experiment over the years. I have a dog in this fight.
Not to discredit in any way some of the truly great audio components
encountered along the way, the truth remains that many simply do not
live up to the hype and promise.
Curt962;621102 Wrote:
I'll buy into warm up, but aside from the mechanical work in of
speakers...I think the rest of the break in of purely solid state
electronics is a load of crap. Scheisse.
I believe that after 24/7...your ears broke in, and adjusted to the
different sound. Nothing
magiccarpetride;621488 Wrote:
I could buy into your explanation id it were applicable to all
electronic components. But no, all the other electronic components I've
tried didn't appear to change with the burn-in, EXCEPT Beresford Caiman
DAC (all this, of course, only in my personal
Phil Leigh;621501 Wrote:
It's not b@llocks... how can you PROVE the Caiman didn't change?
(indeed, how can you prove anything did/didn't change?)
There's only one way to prove it (one way or another) and it doesn't
involve listening to it :-)
Quote:
I did exactly that, and holy
magiccarpetride;621488 Wrote:
So the theory that my ears broke in after a certain accommodation period
is a load of bollocks, because if that's true, it would apply to every
other component, no?
No one is talking about your ears having broke in but rather your
brain having made perceptual
I'll buy into warm up, but aside from the mechanical work in of
speakers...I think the rest of the break in of purely solid state
electronics is a load of crap. Scheisse.
I believe that after 24/7...you're ears broke in, and adjusted to the
different sound. Nothing changed in the DAC you refer
maggior;619114 Wrote:
So does the hardening of paint as it dries...
Figuring out the effects of aging wires on sound quality are as
exciting and pointless as watching both phenomenona...imho.
Let me be honest with you: I've never heard the burn-in phenomenon in
electronic components. I've
I think there is something to burn in. I have noticed it with switching
out a new cap. It's not huge. I'm not sure about wire. I would tend to
think that is bunk. With caps there is a healing process that occurs.
There are micro perfs in the foil that need to burn in or heal
themselves. These
AFAIU, the copper nuclei can wander in the direction of the current, if
the current is strong enough. This will have the effect of making the
cable thicker in some places and thinner in others, increasing overall
resistance and decreasing homogenity. The effect is so small it's only
practically
Most wires have a grain structure where there are discontinuities in
the crystal matrix. The impurities in the metal tend to congregate at
the grain boundaries. These impurities cause a very weak semiconductor
effect which does VERY SLIGHTLY effect the signal traveling through
the cable. These
On the cable and burnin issue I HAVE heard a very slight burnin with
some cables, and not with others. It has never been more than a slight
effect.
The cables that exhibit this tend to be the ones with multiple wires in
complex geometries. My GUESS is that the manufacturing processes that
JohnSwenson;619078 Wrote:
Most wires have a grain structure where there are discontinuities in
the crystal matrix. The impurities in the metal tend to congregate at
the grain boundaries. These impurities cause a very weak semiconductor
effect which does VERY SLIGHTLY effect the signal
Soulkeeper;618868 Wrote:
The growth of grass indicates the passage of time
So does the hardening of paint as it dries...
Figuring out the effects of aging wires on sound quality are as
exciting and pointless as watching both phenomenona...imho.
--
maggior
Rich
-
Setup: 2 SB3s, 4
As yet another guitar player, and former hi-end hi-fi manufacturer
employee, I'd have to agree that 'mechanical' items DO change with
time. Usually this is in a good way (guitars, speakers, turntables) We
used to run amplifiers 'flat-out' into a dummy load for around 72 hours
before shipping
Curt962;618569 Wrote:
Hang on there Grasshopper...I did specify electro MECHANICAL devices as
an exception. You'll get no dispute from me there. As has been more
than adequately illustrated in other posts, it is the mega, craptastic,
monumental improvements that occur in purely electronic
Phil Leigh;618566 Wrote:
But this has zippo to do with burn in. Guitars are mechanical. The
timbers age and mature - they change.
Raise your hand if you agree with this (raises his hand)!
Arguably, certain components found in guitars (i.e. electric pickups)
also age and mature. True? Isn't
At some point the discussion becomes less than meaningful. Phil is
right, and in a general sense...electronics don't age quite the same as
wine.
Even so, the life cycle of many modern low-power consumer products
typically extends far beyond our desire to keep said product before
upgrade-itis
magiccarpetride;618829 Wrote:
Raise your hand if you agree with this (raises his hand)!
Arguably, certain components found in guitars (i.e. electric pickups)
also age and mature. True? Isn't that a burn-in of non-mechanical
parts?
That is in the eye of the beholder (or, more
Phil Leigh;618860 Wrote:
It's a completely deniable fact that the passage of electrical current
(sic) down a wire changes anything about the wire. There is no proof of
this.
Unless the current was so high the wire melted...
The passage of electrical current indicates the passage of time,
The growth of grass indicates the passage of time, and as you say the
passage of time indicates change. What you're hearing is the grass
growing. It's perfectly natural, and has nothing to do with wires. ;)
--
Soulkeeper
-that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even
magiccarpetride;618862 Wrote:
The passage of electrical current indicates the passage of time, no? And
the passage of time indicates that change is taking place, no?
Or am I way off here? Heraclitus was full of shit, was he?
Yeah - about as much as Xenophanes of Colophon
--
Phil Leigh
magiccarpetride;618862 Wrote:
The passage of electrical current indicates the passage of time, no? And
the passage of time indicates that change is taking place, no?
Or am I way off here? Heraclitus was full of shit, was he?
No, No, Yes and not Heraclitus.
--
adamdea
magiccarpetride;618862 Wrote:
Or am I way off here? Heraclitus was full of shit, was he?
Umm, as I recall, Heraclitus has been known for millennia as The
Obscure. For good reason. His pronouncements were opaque,
impenetrable, often without apparent sense.
He could easily be the patron
magiccarpetride;618862 Wrote:
The passage of electrical current indicates the passage of time, no? And
the passage of time indicates that change is taking place, no?
Exercise for the reader: what changes are possible for copper wire? Do
these changes have a positive or negative effect on
Headphones burn in 2 ways , the drivers themselves do change slightly
from new . However the pads settle over time with you wearing the
phones They often get flatter and change shape and conform to your
head and this DEFINATELY changes the sound you hear as the drivers are
repositioned relative
magiccarpetride;618316 Wrote:
A question popped into my head today: if indeed audio component burn-in
is a verifiable (or, close to verifiable) fact (as many claim), how is
it that used components are cheaper than the new ones? Shouldn't it be
the other way around?
The way I look at it,
Ladies and Gentlemen, the Captain has just turned on the Bullsh_t
light...
Speakers, Headphones, Phono Cartridges aside (all electroMECHANICAL
devices) I'm not buying into the supposed magical transformations often
reported to occur in purely electronic devices.
...the sound bloomed over the
Curt962;618464
IMO...people acclimate TO the sound, rather than any actual change IN the
sound. QUOTE Wrote:
I'm 100% with you on that and always thought that any manufacturer who
claims burn in improvement is just covering the flaws of his design
knowing that there acclimatisation TO
krzys;618475 Wrote:
Curt962;618464
IMO...people acclimate TO the sound, rather than any actual change IN the
sound. QUOTE Wrote:
I'm 100% with you on that and always thought that any manufacturer who
claims burn in improvement is just covering the flaws of his design
knowing that
Only in audio does this ridiculousness (is that a word?) exist!
Who in their right mind would buy a PC, or a TV, or even a wristwatch
that required any sort of break-in to perform properly?
Audiophiles (at least some) eat this crap up, and anyone who is so
disconnected from reality NEEDS to
To Phil :
I persist with the word flaws even if often mild, they know them and
cover them with those burn-in time claims. After 500h hours you get
accustom to the sound and chances are you wont complain. IMO any
equipment delivers 97% of his quality right from the box reflecting the
quality of
adamdea;618448 Wrote:
Ignoring the the tendentious preamble, the answer to the original
question is obvious. Some manufacturers do in fact pre-burn-in and some
actually charge for the privilege. Thus far no problem. But there are
other factors and a high degree of uncertainty involved in
Curt962;618478 Wrote:
Only in audio does this ridiculousness (is that a word?) exist!
Who in their right mind would buy a PC, or a TV, or even a wristwatch
that required any sort of break-in to perform properly?
Audiophiles (at least some) eat this crap up, and anyone who is so
magiccarpetride;618517 Wrote:
A spanking brand new guitar, no matter how fabuloutasic is sounds right
out of the case, will only improve its sound the longer you play it.
Yeah, you probably know that it's thought the wood loosens and the
vibration characteristics change with use. Both
magiccarpetride;618517 Wrote:
There is an exception to what you've enlisted above -- audiophiles are
not the only ones affected by the burn-in woes. I'm a musician, and I
know that for guys like myself, guitars are the nasty bitches that need
plenty of burn-in. A spanking brand new guitar,
mlsstl;618535 Wrote:
But aren't guitars, even solid body electrics, still a mechanical
device? You know, vibrating strings and all that...
Yes they are. And that's the point -- speakers too are mostly
mechanical devices.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride;618546 Wrote:
Yes they are. And that's the point -- speakers too are mostly mechanical
devices.
But the break-in fuss isn't so much about speakers but rather when
one gets to electronics, and in particular, speaker wires and
interconnects. One has a real gulf between the two
I've actually looked into this quite a bit. Originally I was very
skeptical of burn in, but after having experienced it I set about
trying find out whats going on.
What I found was that there are two classes of componants that can
exhibit significant burn in effects, capacitors and magnetic
magiccarpetride;618517 Wrote:
There is an exception to what you've enlisted above -- audiophiles are
not the only ones affected by the burn-in woes. I'm a musician, and I
know that for guys like myself, guitars are the nasty bitches that need
plenty of burn-in. A spanking brand new guitar,
JohnSwenson;618558 Wrote:
I've actually looked into this quite a bit. Originally I was very
skeptical of burn in, but after having experienced it I set about
trying find out whats going on.
What I found was that there are two classes of componants that can
exhibit significant burn in
magiccarpetride;618517 Wrote:
There is an exception to what you've enlisted above -- audiophiles are
not the only ones affected by the burn-in woes. I'm a musician, and I
know that for guys like myself, guitars are the nasty bitches that need
plenty of burn-in. A spanking brand new guitar,
Curt962;618569 Wrote:
Let's talk about Brilliant Pebbles,
Ya knowthings that make a REAL difference... ;)
Whenever you need an audiophile chuckle, visit the Machina Dynamica
site for Brilliant Pebbles, etc and my favourite, the Teleportation
Tweak.
The Teleportation Tweak is a
Wellit seems there is at least ONE satisfied customer...
(copied from Head-Fi.org)
Hi Geoff,
You cetainly have an unusual job. Tweaking people's minds as well as
their systems.
I promised to write and relay my experience of the Teleportation Tweak.
I spent a half hour listening before I
maggior;618379 Wrote:
What about burn-in of speakers and headphones? I never bought into the
whole equipment burn in idea as it regards sound quality. However, in
the past year I bought a pair of headphones (Grado SR-225i) and
speakers (Polk Monitor 70) that to my ears sounded better over
A question popped into my head today: if indeed audio component burn-in
is a verifiable (or, close to verifiable) fact (as many claim), how is
it that used components are cheaper than the new ones? Shouldn't it be
the other way around?
The way I look at it, time is money, and also time is one
magiccarpetride;618316 Wrote:
A question popped into my head today: if indeed audio component burn-in
is a verifiable (or, close to verifiable) fact (as many claim), how is
it that used components are cheaper than the new ones? Shouldn't it be
the other way around?
The way I look at it,
Phil Leigh;618356 Wrote:
Perfect null on ADM.
Next up, magic amplifier isolating wood blocks. :)
--
SuperQ
SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139
View this thread:
SuperQ;618358 Wrote:
Next up, magic amplifier isolating wood blocks. :)
Already done it (sort of). Tried vibrating my (old) DAC with a power
drill... :-)
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) -
What about burn-in of speakers and headphones? I never bought into the
whole equipment burn in idea as it regards sound quality. However, in
the past year I bought a pair of headphones (Grado SR-225i) and
speakers (Polk Monitor 70) that to my ears sounded better over time.
The Grado headphones
magiccarpetride;618316 Wrote:
A question popped into my head today: if indeed audio component burn-in
is a verifiable (or, close to verifiable) fact (as many claim), how is
it that used components are cheaper than the new ones? Shouldn't it be
the other way around?
The way I look at it,
Ron Olsen;618397 Wrote:
A Sonus Faber rep came to my place to adjust speaker placement on my new
Stradivaris; he said the sound would get better with use. I have no
reason to doubt him. Can't really say myself; they've always sounded
fabulous to me!
You hear what you want to hear but
I've definitely heard things I didn't want to hear.
--
Daverz
Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86359
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