Mnyb wrote:
For example I'm impressed by the technology and general system
architecture used by Meridian that was probably a large factor in the
buying decision . the whole user experience matters to .
I am a similar personality. I go by specs and system architecture to
some extent. Just
dyohn wrote:
Now you understand why objectivists are constantly calling for
measurements and blind A/B tests before some tweak or mod is declared
better. The mind is the most powerful component in the audio signal
chain. :)
Yep but it not always easy do at at home .
But the ideal
Unless you are in a lab performing a technical analysis, comparing any
two pieces of audio or video gear, or evaluating any audio tweak, is a
purely subjective process. It's all up to what you think. So compare in
as close to equal settings as possible if you are trying to decide which
sounds
dyohn wrote:
Unless you are in a lab performing a technical analysis, comparing any
two pieces of audio or video gear, or evaluating any audio tweak, is a
purely subjective process. It's all up to what you think. So compare in
as close to equal settings as possible if you are trying to
mlsstl wrote:
I would agree wholeheartedly with the admonition to buy what you like,
regardless of whether it is a strictly for technical performance or an
issue of subjective perception.
However, that some people make is to attribute their subjective
opinions to some technical
dyohn wrote:
Unless you are in a lab performing a technical analysis, comparing any
two pieces of audio or video gear, or evaluating any audio tweak, is a
purely subjective process. It's all up to what you think. So compare in
as close to equal settings as possible if you are trying to
Julf wrote:
Was that in a double-blind ABX setting?
No the official ABX setup by-the-book, however the equipments have been
connected to a DAC on which we could switch inputs with a remote.
Therefore we could not really see what was actually connected and
playing af a couple of switch back
jvanhambelgium wrote:
So again, really, I find the Touch a damn good piece of equipment for
its pricetag even with the default psu !
+1 :)
Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050
View this
evdplancke wrote:
After a few days of reflexion, I finally have decided to share with you
the very interesting and quite embarassing experience I have done and
that is for me quite revealing of the subjective aspect of listening
tests.
As some of you may already have read in my previous
Hi there,
I do believe there are some very minor improvements to be made by
changing for example the stock PSU adapter of the Touch with a better
one ;-)
We tested last week actually.
A Touch with stock power and a ultra-lineair,battery driven solution.
Together (3 of us) could hear a very
jvanhambelgium wrote:
Together (3 of us) could hear a very subtile improvement
Was that in a double-blind ABX setting?
Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050
View this thread:
NoRoDa;692422 Wrote:
How did you manage a double blind test with stock PSU and linear?
Had to be difficult to arrange?
REGArds
ill post the details in a bit!
--
TheOctavist
VortexboxSBT(stock)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D
Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono
I remember a user named iPhone doing ADM measurements on the analog out
of the old SB3 using stock or linear psu and the output signal was
identical in either case.
No one done that for Touch but I suspect similar results .
Some thinker suspect that audibility of PSU is down to it's interaction
TheOctavist;688259 Wrote:
see the tt 3.0 thread.
did loads of dbt today. no difference with or without, stock psu or
linear.
i jumped on tt bandwagon hastily. it provided no benefit..so back to
stock for me.
How did you manage a double blind test with stock PSU and linear?
Had to be
No use trying to engage the audio magic cargo cultists. They're scared
witless of the truth. Let them stay in peace, in their little
delusional paradises of magic unicorns and golden ears. Their defense
mechanisms when confronted with reality are pitiful to watch. I for one
don't feel the need to
Soulkeeper;689227 Wrote:
No use trying to engage the audio magic cargo cultists. They're scared
witless of the truth. Let them stay in peace, in their little
delusional paradises of magic unicorns and golden ears. Their defense
mechanisms when confronted with reality are pitiful to watch. I
magiccarpetride;689109 Wrote:
It does. But where the analogy breaks for me is in the fact that if I
happen to hear a difference between two audio configurations, those
differences are very clear, prominent and beyond a trace of a doubt.
And regardless of whether I try to focus too much, or
magiccarpetride;689429 Wrote:
You've hit the nail on the head: we're all crazy. Plus, we don't know
how to read.
Can you please explain what else is wrong with me? You seem to know
everything!
I'm so glad you are here to help. This is why most of us pay attention
and reply here.
Have you
I have no problem at all with the concept of doing a DBT as long as the
protocol allows for some time for relaxed listening.
Here is a proposal for a DBT of the infamous TT3.0. This one is ideal
because it's software only, no switching between hardware needed which
should simplify the testing
JohnSwenson;689437 Wrote:
I have no problem at all with the concept of doing a DBT as long as the
protocol allows for some time for relaxed listening.
Here is a proposal for a DBT of the infamous TT3.0. This one is ideal
because it's software only, no switching between hardware needed
pski;689434 Wrote:
I'm so glad you are here to help. This is why most of us pay attention
and reply here.
Have you considered getting a dog ? They are slavishly attentive and
have been shown to help with certain psychological issues.
Already have a dog. Next...
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride;689443 Wrote:
The issue with me is that I can't even hear any difference between
analog outs on my Duet and a TT3.0 SBT into an outboard DAC.
What model?
--
pski
real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is
truly the Golden Age of Wireless
pski;689444 Wrote:
What model?
Logitech.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93380
If you want to know how the brain works to interpret auditory stimuli,
please listen to James Johnston's remarks from 1:00 to 5:20 in the
Audio Myths Workshop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
FYI, JJ is a recognized expert in the field; see his credentials here:
JohnSwenson;688895 Wrote:
I hope everybody will bear with me, this is going to be a bit long, I
have a lot to say on this subject.
As the regulars should know by now I am one who can hear differences in
equipment, and I'm also a technical person who builds his own stuff and
tries hard to
darrenyeats;688938 Wrote:
John, imagine we picked two pieces of sky, one with a nebula and one
without and we repeatedly and randomly showed you each and asked if it
was the nebula or non-nebula sky you were seeing. If you got it right
50% of the time, what should we conclude?
DBTs do not
JohnSwenson;688895 Wrote:
I hope everybody will bear with me, this is going to be a bit long, I
have a lot to say on this subject.
As the regulars should know by now I am one who can hear differences in
equipment, and I'm also a technical person who builds his own stuff and
tries hard to
Phil Leigh;689022 Wrote:
most albums that you hear were mixed and mastered in critical mode.
I thought most albums were mixed in critical mode and mastered in
relaxed mode (or at least -attempted- mastered in relaxed mode),
and that this was why it's considered a good idea to have a different
Soulkeeper;689046 Wrote:
I thought most albums were mixed in critical mode and mastered in
relaxed mode (or at least -attempted- mastered in relaxed mode),
and that this was why it's considered a good idea to have a different
person doing the mastering?
But what happens when the mastering
JohnSwenson;689019 Wrote:
Isn't that exactly what I was saying? I thought I specifically said that
DBTs are valuable as long as you go into them understanding that the
very act of trying to concentrate on differences can alter your
perceptions. I guess I didn't make myself clear enough
JohnSwenson;689019 Wrote:
...the very act of trying to concentrate on differences can alter your
perceptions.
Have to say this is one aspect of the DBT criticisms that I find
over-the-top. The thought that this process intrinsically corrupts the
purity of the listening process by making one
JohnSwenson;688895 Wrote:
I hope all this makes some sort of sense.
John S.
It does. But where the analogy breaks for me is in the fact that if I
happen to hear a difference between two audio configurations, those
differences are very clear, prominent and beyond a trace of a doubt.
And
magiccarpetride;689109 Wrote:
For me, it's a very clear-cut binary situation: either I hear the
differences immediately, or I won't ever be able to hear them.
So would you then with DBT? Why being so reluctant then for blind
tests?
--
evdplancke
evdplancke;689115 Wrote:
So would you then with DBT? Why being so reluctant then for blind tests?
Because peeing in the cup while blindfolded always makes the floors
dirty.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile:
magiccarpetride;689118 Wrote:
Because peeing in the cup while blindfolded always leaves the floor
dirty.
Polite way to elude the question :(
--
evdplancke
evdplancke's Profile:
evdplancke;689164 Wrote:
Polite way to elude the question :(
To me, the only valid test would be the infamous 'the men who stare at
goats' test.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile:
To MGC and SBGK. Could you please contribute positively to this thread
by explaining what is your testing methology to evaluate the positive
effects of your mods and reduce expectation bias.
Otherwise, if you don't want to contribute to the topic of this thread,
please stay away!
Many thanks ;)
Also to the other contributors, this is not the place to discuss theory
but to share practical experience of listening test methology.
Thanks for contributing to the subject of this topic.
--
evdplancke
evdplancke's
I hope everybody will bear with me, this is going to be a bit long, I
have a lot to say on this subject.
As the regulars should know by now I am one who can hear differences in
equipment, and I'm also a technical person who builds his own stuff and
tries hard to come up with correlations to
JohnSwenson;688895 Wrote:
I hope everybody will bear with me, this is going to be a bit long, I
have a lot to say on this subject.
As the regulars should know by now I am one who can hear differences in
equipment, and I'm also a technical person who builds his own stuff and
tries hard to
JohnSwenson;688895 Wrote:
I hope everybody will bear with me, this is going to be a bit long, I
have a lot to say on this subject.
As the regulars should know by now I am one who can hear differences in
equipment, and I'm also a technical person who builds his own stuff and
tries hard to
totoro;688266 Wrote:
If the person behaves like a troll, pointing it out isn't an unwarranted
attack. Reality isn't optional
In your opinion, of course.
--
magiccarpetride
magiccarpetride's Profile:
totoro;688266 Wrote:
If the person behaves like a troll, pointing it out isn't an unwarranted
attack. Reality isn't optional
Especially, one might think, if the troll in question had identified
himself as a troll in an earlier post which described itself (half
accurately) as sophisticated
adamdea;688408 Wrote:
Especially, one might think, if the troll in question had identified
himself as a troll in an earlier post which described itself (half
accurately) as sophisticated trolling.
Who could do that and then say that calling him a troll was an
unwarranted attack?
ralphpnj;688432 Wrote:
I don't believe that is a troll in the most common usage of the term
with respect to internet forums. What he does is play devil's advocate,
in that he does not make personal attacks but rather just posts a
contrary opinion in order to stir the pot and more importantly
Phil Leigh;688434 Wrote:
as John Lennon said gimme some truth... Life's too short to play
games. I don't mind MCR, I just wish he'd check his internet persona at
the door and communicate properly.
Define 'communicate properly'. According to who? There is more than one
potential position of
ralphpnj;688432 Wrote:
I don't believe that is a troll in the most common usage of the term
with respect to internet forums. What he does is play devil's advocate,
in that he does not make personal attacks but rather just posts a
contrary opinion in order to stir the pot and more importantly
magiccarpetride;688442 Wrote:
Define 'communicate properly'. According to who? There is more than one
potential position of authority, as I'm sure you know already.
And also, not everything that is official at a certain moment stays
official for long.
You know what I mean... No need to
Phil Leigh;688449 Wrote:
You know what I mean... No need to play games forever!
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend,
exploring things and turning every stone on the path may look like
playing games... You are the official guardian of the official way of
thinking, the
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend, exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the official way of thinking,
the officially established and sanctified truths,
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend, exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the official way of thinking,
the officially established and sanctified truths,
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
.
But I'm not expecting you to be in a position to grasp that. Whsh!
no need to repost mcr's nonsense yet again.
Phil Leigh;688457 Wrote:
Thanks for the psychedelic bollocks...
And it will take way more than you've got to whoosh me,
Phil, now I'm
ralphpnj;688466 Wrote:
I still think that if magiccarpetride would put the games aside for
awhile he might actually have some worthwhile information and ideas to
contribute. But then again, maybe not.
I think, maybe not. If it is all an attempt at a joke, it still betrays
that condescending,
magiccarpetride;688442 Wrote:
Define 'communicate properly'. According to who? There is more than one
potential position of authority, as I'm sure you know already.
And also, not everything that is official at a certain moment stays
official for long.
Tiresome pseudo-intellectual
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend, exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the official way of thinking,
the officially established and sanctified truths,
On 3 Feb 2012, at 21:33, darrell wrote:
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend, exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the official way of thinking,
the
What if one were to run some double blind tests (dbts)using only blind
people. Would the results be different for them since their other
senses may well be heightened, particularly their hearing. I'm not
really serious about actually running such a test but I think it makes
for an intriguing
cunobelinus;688481 Wrote:
On 3 Feb 2012, at 21:33, darrell wrote:
magiccarpetride;688453 Wrote:
To you, whose mind appears to be of a dogmatic, a priori bend,
exploring
things and turning every stone on the path may look like playing
games... You are the official guardian of the
Soulkeeper;687994 Wrote:
Something called good enough does actually exist???
What a peculiar thread. :)
Good enough...? Yes, when you start listening to music instead of
worrying about what sounds wrong :)
--
evdplancke
Something called good enough does actually exist???
What a peculiar thread. :)
--
Soulkeeper
'Bug 17797: Updating wiki.slimdevices.com'
(http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17797)
Soulkeeper's Profile:
ralphpnj;688053 Wrote:
In other words, there is a very noticeable difference between a $200
power amp and a $5000 power amp but between two $200 power amps or
between two $5000 power amps there is just not that much of difference.
But I hope that the difference between two $5000 power amps
Very interesting thread and a wonderful post by the OP.
There is one thing which is in danger of getting lost in our collective
rush to be as objective as possible: while there may not be the huge
differences between different pieces of audio equipment there are still
differences. Differences
vett93;687978 Wrote:
Were you comparing SBT's analog output vs. Lavry DAC's output? Did you
use the stock PSU for SBT?
What are the rest of your components?
Correct. SBT analog out against the SB3/Lavry combo. And I use the
stock power supply. (I've tried linear supplies and didn't find
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I have reached the same conclusion as you, but my particular take on it
is that the starting point has to be the recognition that music sounds
different every time you hear it, and that you have to be very wary
about attributing that change to a change in the
mlsstl;687974 Wrote:
It's way too easy in this hobby to become obsessive/compulsive over the
equipment.
That's true, but the way you put it, sounds like you feel that it could
be a problem. Why?
The reason we go into hobbies is precisely to cultivate
obsessive-compulsive disorders. That way,
TheOctavist;688138 Wrote:
it isn't malicious to state facts..or to try to teach those that are
ignorant. it is for their own good. (and for the good of those who will
be led like rats (the new naive guys) by people like you and SBGK
wailing about shakti stones and server optimizations. )
magiccarpetride;688111 Wrote:
T
But in the world of audio, there is so much maliciousness as this
sector seems to attract many broken, maladjusted individuals who have
obvious difficulties socializing. At least us guitar heads are
gregarious, we like to congregate and talk shop, play some
Soulkeeper;688089 Wrote:
But I hope that the difference between two $5000 power amps is smaller
than the difference between two $200 power amps. There ought to be some
kind of standard (and I think there is, at least to some degree).
Good point but I can't answer that question. Now of course
Soulkeeper;688089 Wrote:
But I hope that the difference between two $5000 power amps is smaller
than the difference between two $200 power amps. There ought to be some
kind of standard (and I think there is, at least to some degree).
actually there isn't much difference at all between ANY
Phil Leigh;688174 Wrote:
ALL 5k aolid state amps are. 200£ amps in fancy boxes. It's the box that
costs For valve amps you can at le ast treble the parts cost - good
output transformers and valves are expensive.
Ignorance is bliss: I've always been impressed with Mark Levinson power
amps
ralphpnj;688169 Wrote:
Good point but I can't answer that question. Now of course if one $5,000
amp was some flea powered tube amp and the other amp a 200 watt per
channel solid state model, well then all bets are off.
And of course since we're talking about high end audio, a third $5,000
TheOctavist;688138 Wrote:
it isn't malicious to state facts..or to try to teach those that are
ignorant. it is for their own good. (and for the good of those who will
be led like rats (the new naive guys) by people like you and SBGK
wailing about shakti stones and server optimizations. )
Phil Leigh;688174 Wrote:
ALL 5k aolid state amps are. 200£ amps in fancy boxes. It's the box that
costs For valve amps you can at le ast treble the parts cost - good
output transformers and valves are expensive.
I don't think so. I own a very nice $5,000 power amp which is
definitely not a
magiccarpetride;688111 Wrote:
That's true, but the way you put it, sounds like you feel that it could
be a problem. Why?
The reason we go into hobbies is precisely to cultivate
obsessive-compulsive disorders. That way, life becomes laced with
spice. Otherwise, you may just as well obtain
darrenyeats;688189 Wrote:
TheOctavist,
You are clearly a raving objectivist but am I the first to notice the
TT mods in your signature?!
see the tt 3.0 thread.
did loads of dbt today. no difference with or without, stock psu or
linear.
i jumped on tt bandwagon hastily. it provided no
magiccarpetride;688145 Wrote:
Calling someone a troll is not stating facts. It is an uncalled-for
personal attack.
If the person behaves like a troll, pointing it out isn't an
unwarranted attack. Reality isn't optional
--
totoro
sb3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 + rel storm 3
After a few days of reflexion, I finally have decided to share with you
the very interesting and quite embarassing experience I have done and
that is for me quite revealing of the subjective aspect of listening
tests.
As some of you may already have read in my previous posts in the
audiophile
What a wonderfully honest post. Thanks for sharing your experience.
--
chill
chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93380
Congratulations, particularly for the honesty of your post. If you want
any advice, now improve your system by adding to your music collection.
--
darrell
darrell's Profile:
Can you do another test without the external DAC? Just compare the stock
PSU with linear PSU and use SBT's analog output. In my mind, that is the
only thing that can make difference.
What are the rest of your system? Sorry I was away from this forum for
years until recent...
Thanks.
--
darrell;687946 Wrote:
Congratulations, particularly for the honesty of your post. If you want
any advice, now improve your system by adding to your music collection.
Yes, I think indeed it is the best I can do! Thanks for the
encouragement!
--
evdplancke
vett93;687947 Wrote:
Can you do another test without the external DAC? Just compare the stock
PSU with linear PSU and use SBT's analog output. In my mind, that is the
only thing that can make difference.
What are the rest of your system? Sorry I was away from this forum for
years until
evdplancke;687942 Wrote:
After a few days of reflexion, I finally have decided to share with you
the very interesting and quite embarassing experience I have done and
that is for me quite revealing of the subjective aspect of listening
tests.
As some of you may already have read in my
Understandable. Thanks for sharing the results.
--
vett93
Main system:
Source: Transporter, modded by ModWright:
http://www.modwright.com/modifications/transporter-truth-mods.php
Preamp: Dude from Tube Research Labs:
http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/products/dude.html
Amp: NP100 Platinum from
magiccarpetride;687956 Wrote:
Obviously, we're in it for the tweaking/hobby, but that does not
necessarily translate into better sounding music reproduction at the
end of the day. Reminds me of when I was hand making my own beer,
pouring over the excruciating minutia working on my newest
I've posted before that when I acquired my Touch almost 2 years ago, I
synced and level-matched it against my existing SB3 with a Lavry DA-10
DAC. Over a listening period of several weeks I found I could not
reliably tell which unit was playing unless I checked the position of
the amp's input
mlsstl;687974 Wrote:
I've posted before that when I acquired my Touch almost 2 years ago, I
synced and level-matched it against my existing SB3 with a Lavry DA-10
DAC. Over a listening period of several weeks I found I could not
reliably tell which unit was playing unless I checked the
So far, I can conclude from the first few posts that the best test
methodology is:
no test at all and enjoy the music! sounds wise isn't it?
--
evdplancke
evdplancke's Profile:
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