Thank you all for the feedback
As Tim advises me, there is the straight login as noted below, which
seems to makes the 'account' path as described on the front page
unnecessary (?), but I have struck 'incorrect username or password'
elsewhere.
On 21/10/2015, at 5:56 PM, Matt Gage wrote:
Dou
To the fount of all wisdoms
I hope you can clarify for me -
(because I have not had to tippy-toe in the GFA website previously)
The front page tells me I can create a member account which then
enables all sorts of wonders
but the member login it refers me to doesn't exist on the buttons
provid
I don't know where GLZ is these days.
When I owned it, it had an open trailer ex Southern Cross GC.
I then built an enclosed trailer which was sold on to the late Mike
Valentine and John Viney.
This trailer has (from memory) the tailplane in the roof, the outer
wing panels side by side with ro
Peter is in the main street of Nairne for South Australian pilots. He
is very inventive in using current generation batteries to do the job
of past generation stuff (such as the Big Jim alkaline for Everready
torch where originals are not in retail stock)
On 02/07/2015, at 6:14 PM, Ian Mc Phee
Because the sport has gone through a number of evolutions, these are
precisely the stories which deserve capturing.
As the 'it can't happen now' in the current preferred form of the
sport
means that whole generations of pilots both don't understand the short
hand references some pilots make
p
On 10/05/2015, at 10:22 PM, Leigh Bunting wrote:
So in SA, there is plentiful wave at times but the means to get to it
through launch method, lack of an O2 kit and airspace problems wreck
the usability.
And while Fleurieu Peninsula, Mt. Lofty Range, Tothill Range and
Southern Flinders are no
On 10/05/2015, at 5:00 PM, Geoff Vincent wrote:
Photo taken where and when exactly, Emilis?
Satellite view kindly provided by Leigh Bunting.
5 years ago or so
Reflective of regular westerly flow over My Lofty Range adjacent to
Adelaide - mixed terrain and pre-frontal shear wave over the
Straw poll.
Has anyone, had a vario failure.
Yes, Catherine lent me her son and newly arrived 2 seater with its
single vario which chose to rest the needle in the top right corner, so
we had to use the back up on the bottom of the back seat.
___
Aus
OK, I'll bite.
On 16/04/2015, at 9:04 AM, DMcD wrote:
If we had an an organisation in Australia that was actually
interested in promoting gliding and helping people do it easier and
cheaper, things might be different.
Easier and cheaper? Name me one alu airframe which is lower
maintenance th
In a parallel universe which I inhabit
(the construction industry)
similarly the safety regulation is at the front end, with no one
checking the actual:
- a notice to termites about the resistance system built-in - but i
doubt they can read nor will visit the meter box where it is mandated
the
On 28/12/2014, at 12:50 PM, Richard Frawley wrote:
I infer from this thread that the general view is that a pilot
(perhaps more so in low hours) has a higher potential to spin when
thermalling or attempting to thermal at less than 500' AGL than at
higher altitudes.
Additional to the pilot
Thank you,
I am pleased to see return of humour to the list
beginning with Tim's contribution a few days earlier.
This also means that several generations of glider pilots
can help one another out with what the words mean
and where the knowledge comes from.
It may reverse the loss in corporate wis
This thread is also affected by the gradual change in the sport of
gliding at the holistic level. Commentators have already previously
commented on -
- the decline in 'air mindedness' across society in general
- the decline in willingness by newcomers to spend the whole day on an
airfield the w
On 20/11/2014, at 9:59 AM, Dion Weston wrote:
Does anyone on this list know whether any of the following gliders
were ever operational in Australia and if so who I might contact to
obtain specific details about them?
T.43 Skylark 3B
T.43 Skylark 3F
Slingsby T.53B
From the book 'British Gl
If my memory is sound, in the prior eras (mine and Mark's)
the appeal was directed to all without distinguishing between
individuals,
with the belief that as more senior female role models/mentors
became available, the path would ease further.
On 13/09/2014, at 12:53 PM, Catherine Conway wrote:
On 25/06/2014, at 6:07 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
The Prius uses nickel metal hydride batteries and the control system
makes sure they cycle between 30% and about 80% charge. That is why
they have such a long lifetime.
You aren't going to be able to do this in an electric powered
sailplane.
It
I love the ability of the virtual world to spread unsubstantiated
gossip, usually with a mindset bend behind it.
My NHW-11 at 280,000 km (13 years) threw the battery code, and a
$3,500 replacement now has me expecting to exceed 0.5mill km before the
next replacement.
Thus, totally in line wit
I am advised that tomorrow's Adelaide Advertiser will provide the
details for the funeral of Kevin Sedgman possibly on Thursday.
Kevin passed on very recently.
He is remembered as a long time glider pilot, sailplane builder and
restorer, involved in the sport in SA and Qld, and founding member o
Thank you all for the responses to the (advert) email.
No, I don't have a commercial interest.
The dinner seems to have come about through the initiative of the smart
young things in the Young Business Leaders program setting it up (using
the Jeremy Clarkson 'how hard can it be' method), and as
Relevant to Adelaide glider pilots
(and other aviators)
on behalf of the event organisers I am circulating this invitation:
(to aviators, please pass on to your networks)
at Adelaide Zoo Sanctuary 6.30pm Friday 4th April 2014
dinner with guest speaker Richard de Crespigny (captain of QF32
and
http://www.freewebs.com/vintageglidersqld/apps/photos/photo?
photoid=45705473
On 09/02/2014, at 3:49 PM, Anthony Smith wrote:
http://victoriancollections.net.au/items/5108825f2162ef0e303871d5___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.interno
other non-PC words:
iconoclast
On 09/01/2014, at 5:38 PM, McLean Richard wrote:
ag·i·ta·tor
[aj-i-tey-ter] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who stirs up others in order to upset the status quo and
further a political, social, or other cause: The boss said he would
fire any union agitators.
2.
a ma
Best wishes to all sailplaners to fulfill their hopes and goals
The GFA circular tells us pilot numbers are up, the sport will strongly
promote its performance peak so as to encourage people to stay longer,
and for more people to be attracted
and all is well for 2014.
On the flip side, the occasional loss in flight of a big span sailplane
(wings coming off during pull out from unusual attitude/spiral), often
with well known names on board, is also notable as occuring in recent
times
'sluggish like an airliner'
On 13/11/2013, at 6:35 AM, John Parncutt wro
Thank you Bernard
I will attend
On 10/10/2013, at 5:19 PM, Future Aviation wrote:
Gerhard Waibel will be visiting Adelaide in early November and he has
kindly agreed to giving a lecture
at the UniSA campus at Mawson Lakes in Adelaide. For further details
please refer to the attached flyer.
On 09/09/2013, at 10:47 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote:
Here are a couple of questions to ponder:
· Does gliding need someone like Bernie?
· Do you think that there are (any) parallels between top
level gliding, and F1 motor racing as shaped by BE?
Looking in from the outside:
1. Te
Hi Bernard
I'm sure lots of local pilots (power as well as sail) will want to
hear both Gerhard and the cutting edge aerodynamics
include me in the audience
On 02/09/2013, at 7:26 AM, Future Aviation wrote:
Good morning all
Gerhard Waibel will be our guest during a visit to Adelaide in earl
Ann Woolf: Whilst on the subject, lease don't forget Jock Barratt's
Pelican, built in the 1930s which is now being restored.
Peter Champness: Gary Sunderland's MOBA is probably the best known,
even though it has not been seen for quite a few years.
The Beaufort Gliding Club Zephyrus two seater
The 'whole world' is moving toward 'CertIV' style accredited training.
I have experience with this in both my working and 'not-for-profit'
worlds.
The problem arises when the 'competency based training' doesn't draw in
superior academic standards existing (ie graduate degree and above)
plus 're
Mike Brett
from Murray Bridge Gliding Club
is looking to get hold of classic gliding books
(Irving, Welch, Reichmann, etc.)
contact him direct if you can help him out
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On 12/07/2013, at 12:32 PM, DMcD wrote:
No doubt wind turbines can cause turbulence but it is highly likely
that the ridge on which they were sited would cause far more
turbulence. My narrow experience suggests that many fixed wing &
helicopter aircraft pilots don't take this enough into account
I have read the book
He is very clear about -
- the many things that worked together to bring the event to a safe
conclusion
- about Qantas attitudes and methods (quite the reverse of the 1980s
attitudes reported in 'The Men who killed Qantas'_
- the ability of the A380 to hang together despite
Or you can leave the outer panels off an ASW17 and run it with 15m tips
a la Karl S
On 07/05/2013, at 8:28 AM, Jim Staniforth wrote:
Of course, the best 20s are not as they came from the factory, but
ones modified by Rick Wagner. All the ASW20s he saw were EXP. Rick's
recipe:
Cut off inner
On 15/03/2013, at 5:12 PM, Adam Woolley wrote:
Have you got any rough 'rules of thumb' that you use in order to
decide if the short term deviation is worth it or not?
Better air within 30 degrees either side of track is worth deviating
for.
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On 11/03/2013, at 7:43 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
Oz Runways chose the ipad platform for their GA planning and flight
software and I can see why. There was a good number of ipads in use
and by choosing to run their software on that they could support only
one platform that was tightly specified.
On 07/03/2013, at 11:26 PM, Mike Cleaver wrote:
but nobody yet regularly uses a reference thermal that reflects the
actual conditions on the day, or the fact that some sites experience
consistently better thermals than others.
In gross terms, the US the CH factors differ between west and east
And if you want hard copy sets of AG (sorry not complete back to the
1950s because we have run out of the early small print runs) email
Keith Willis
(there are some mighty people like Ann and keith doing work of value in
the sport unheralded)
On 07/03/2013, at 9:49 PM, Ann Woolf wrote:
I h
On 05/03/2013, at 9:01 PM, wrote:
Emilis's last three paragraphs has me intrigued. Emilis, I would like
you to amplify just exactly what you mean in each of these paragraphs.
As the sport gets smaller, it relies ever more on the old hands where
the corporate knowledge resides. Making that se
It is a good thing that over the years the sport has moved toward
better resourced and structured post-solo coaching.
The regrettable aspects are that -
- on the one hand the sport's traditions of making do and relying on
individuals to stump up resources for the benefit of the sport as a
whol
As the sport moves from generation to generation, it is easy for
corporate knowledge to be diluted and even lost as young administrators
think they know, when actually they haven't got a clue.
The traditional wisdom has been for decades, that it is not possible
for sailplanes to be usefully co
When this was first thrashed through in the 1950s,
(in those days the litmus event was a heart attack)
and BGA did the review of general aviation in England:
accident rate by in-flight event by type of prior medical
and the consensus was there was no safety change achieved by
aviation medical vs '
One of the nice things about an Australia wide discussion forum
(admittedly with a small percentage of sailplaners on it) is that we
get to gauge the spread of views (inevitably filling the spectrum).
Where Richard & I differ is probably in that I've been around a long
time and have seen this
On 18/05/2012, at 11:56 AM, Texler, Michael wrote:
How comfortable people feel about glider pilots flying with self
declared fitness to fly can be another topic for discussion!
Sometimes, in the rush toward having a rule to satisfy every situation,
we sometimes tend to forget that for many (
While it is understandable to look at accidents with the view to either
learn from them or be reminded about fallability; beyond the events and
factors noted by earlier emails, it is also helpful to bear trends in
mind.
This is about getting insights into wider contributors before and after.
(
On 21/04/2012, at 9:13 PM, john.mcfarlane wrote:
Flarm, Power Flarm, SSR/TCAS, Mode C/Mode S, Primary Radar/ATS, ADS-B,
Eyeball, VHF, CB, CTAF, CTAF(R) and NOTAM’s
Have you guys actually had a look at the shear amount of disparate
systems you have mentioned.
And then we add into the mix that
An excellent example of differing management styles:
- by rote, - by priorityand then there is - by objective
On 20/04/2012, at 1:49 PM, Peter F Bradshaw wrote:
It would be better to reasonably comply with all rules.
On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Tim Shirley wrote:
I listen as
How do we get the spirit of this across to other aviators, public and
media?:
On 20/04/2012, at 1:37 PM, Tim Shirley wrote:
the operational characteristics of gliders makes information provided
by radio far less useful in a predictive sense than the same
information given by a powered aircraf
My local Council continues to be hot-to-trot favouring an international
airport within its area.
The selected location has its boundary fence 500metres from my strip.
Council has told the landowners just how much money they will make, and
a succession of consultants have written the reports that
On 25/03/2012, at 6:42 AM, Tim Shirley wrote:
A smile and a friendly explanation goes a long way, I find. And so,
I expect, would an up front apology and offer to pay for damage, if
it was necessary. I can't imagine the need for police, or lawyers.
Or documents in the glove box.
Lik
from Wombat:
"Since Schneiders no longer exist as a company I am presuming their
type certificates are held by either CASA or GFA... either way we pay
for maintaining them through our subs, and would probably have to pay
more if some private individual had obtained the TCs fifteen or twenty
y
On 14/02/2012, at 8:09 AM, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/sa-business-journal/gliding-
into-an-ideal-market-niche/story-e6fredel
The Nimbus 4DM is Catherine Conway's
and the German set up gives the opportunity to revamp Stonefield
away from 'ramshackle'
I am out of touch with some bits of the big wide gliding world, because
I operate older wooden airframes where servicing is directly to long
standing standard MOSP outcome based requirements rather than to an
individual manufacturer sailplane serial type manual.
From discussion amongst peers I
Thank you Tim for setting it out so clearly,
if GFA would couch its mission statement in such clear terms
then the 80% could fade away knowing it was policy.
I suspect my definition of 'healthy' just differs from yours.
I am quite sure you are on the winning side.
On 08/09/2011, at 8:43 AM, Tim
I wonder whether there is a place in the new magazine for the kind of
commentary as this thread raises; or if only those approved of by GFA
President and Board have their material published.
Interesting that Classified returned; but I wonder whether members'
letters will.
On 07/09/2011, at 8
Ross, Tim & Tom between them reflect the range of views across the
gliding community on handicapping. These beliefs have been around since
the dawn of time.
In a perfect world, to which some subscribe, indeed the individual's
wallet should be the leveller.
From the 1970s to the 1990s a separ
On 08/08/2011, at 12:52 PM, Adam Woolley wrote:
Why were AAT’s designed in the first place? I thought it was for the
CB/TS days where a certain sector was so unpredictable, that they
couldn’t have a fixed turn-point that could guarantee the completion
of a task. Then again, there’s normally
Grant writes about one type of gliding club which (for better or
worse) is caught in being a club as envisioned by a prior era.
DMcD writes about gliding the sport that is being currently
transitioned toward.
There are indeed many manifestations of 'gliding'.
One of the success iterations are
On 07/07/2011, at 10:05 AM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
It is 2011. Faced with a redo of the official magazine an
organisation in 2011 decides to keep doing it the way it has been done
since the 1950s and we have a bunch of glider pilots exhibiting the
same failure of imagination and unwillingness to
For those who know her
I advise that the open heart surgery was done on Friday
with her coming from ICU this afternoon
prognosis that all went well and 3 month recovery to follow
I now return you to your regularly scheduled diatribes
___
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Begin forwarded message:
From: "Bob"
Date: 3 May 2011 1:04:51 PM
Subject: [PTS] Re: Prius as home emergency power backup
> I'd like to know if there is precedent for using a prius
> as emergency backup for home power instead of a generator?
We had ~226 tornadoes in Dixie and many of them
On 21/04/2011, at 11:57 AM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
2) Nobody is talking of using the NiMH system for aviation.
And I'm not hypothesising in Li tech with which I have little real
world experience as yet.
Hybrid cars are a marketing gimmick aimed at those who can't do maths.
Toyota's marketi
On 21/04/2011, at 8:29 AM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
Battery pack life will be the key to the economics.
Improvements in recent decades has come in the detail control of
charge/discharge.
Discharge is controlled by the electronics tapering off power output
available near bottom end of power avai
In a changing world, where there seems to be a presumption that
there are prescriptive single rules for everything (so that you can die
'by the book');
it is worth occasionally reminding ourselves that the whole premise and
basis of the sport of gliding is
that we do what is safe, including ta
Thanks to Pam for placing this on aaus-soaring
On 18/03/2011, at 9:14 AM, Pam Kurstjens wrote:
The Wally Kahn/ BGA Library Project
The BGA is supporting both a hard copy and eBook library project being
organised by Wally Kahn of Lasham and Peter Redshaw of the Lakes GC.
This
follows the com
On 16/03/2011, at 1:22 PM, Simon Hackett wrote:
A fleet of EV's improves 'well to wheel' efficiency with no action by
the driver, as the grid becomes more efficient in its generation
sources.
To add to the complexity of the emergent world, as sizeable numbers of
electric vehicles (includin
On 04/03/2011, at 11:40 AM, Jim Staniforth wrote:
My house is nuclear powered, I just choose to keep the reactor a safe
93 million miles away.
So do I
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David Ellis from Canada noted similar things, where his home site was
slated to have the turbine row straight out in line with the climb out
runway alignment.
When Big W at Monarto proposed their anemometer mast (6km from our
strip), we were advised prior to them lodging the development consen
thank you Drew
(& Chris for link)
(I flew over the latter's house yesterday OCTA without gee-gaws even
though within 40km of Adelaide Airport)
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Where about one quarter of the current glider fleet are of the
character Steve refers to, his being at the the lightest/simplest end
of that scale.
That part of the glider fleet has quite different needs/capabilities to
those of the current generation ships.
As regulation increases, thus more of
On 22/10/2010, at 8:29 PM, Tim Shirley wrote:
It is important not to confuse the two parts, and it is certainly
wrong to
think that because the membership system is in the hands of
professionals
that this means that GFA has turned its back on using volunteers in
other
areas.
And it will b
Flight simulator demonstration and flying
Thursday 21st October, 5:00 Start
Come to:
The University of Adelaide
Room N123b Engineering North Building
Meet at Gate 5 Frome road ---Ring Andrew on 0427 976779 when at gate 5.
Last winter Lecture, 7:30 Start following flight simulator demonst
On 24/09/2010, at 3:32 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
All good questions, Michael.
An even better one before getting involved in the minutae of
calculating a carbon footprint is: do we care and why?
Sorry, this gets even more OT
or maybe not.
I am told by people in white coats who look at the
Tell me where to come to collect it, and it will go in my museum with
all the other stuff
that then can come back into the sport at a time of need.
On 11/09/2010, at 5:21 PM, Tom Wilksch wrote:
Hi everyone
I currently have in my shed the frame from and LS7 canopy. It is
basically the can
Thanks to all posts emphasising the sport's positive emphasises - fun,
soaring, cross country
To add to the focus suggested on action -
suggestions please how to gather together
- the people and equipment needed
to do these things
like Ian, when the offers are made to provide the support resou
Thank you Bernard
and Australia has over the decades developed through its volunteer base
the capability to consider sailplane airworthiness on an individual
'as-inspected' basis.
Where as I understand it the national federation will consider partial
airworthiness cost where a wood airframe i
On 27/08/2010, at 8:10 PM, Mal Bruce wrote:
Gliding Died a long time ago RIP
and Ian McPhee wrote:
I am too old for all this - gone are the days of me doing
80+ aerotows. a day! I just wish others would help the cause.
I sat in a Development Seminar organised by Ann Philcox (thank you) at
Thank you Ian, for your work to connect people with L13 with people
with older 2 seaters for interim loan, hire, etc.
Those who offered 2 seaters on the list might like to either join that
matching service or look at the loan, hire, etc. methods being used
with an eye to the capital capabilities
I am pleased that the list is fulfilling its purpose - discussion
amongst people widely separated across the continent.
While I fully understand the desire to offer today's capability the
sport has, I am looking for insights as to how people are making the
transition.
Without which there may be
Thank you all for making it clear how many second hand 2 seat
sailplanes are available for sale across Australia.
For some this will be enough evidence that options for people parking
Blaniks in the back of hangars exist.
I invite the small section of the sport on this list to contemplate
whethe
My understanding is that Blanik owners are encouraged to do the visual
inspection and provide the information to the manufacturer (who
provided me with the inspection heads-up direct) and also the GFA ( who
provided the AD with the inspection heads-up to known Blanik owners in
Australia).
I und
To Tom's enquiry about pilot licensing for use o/s
my understanding would be that GFA
in addition to formalising GPC for the future;
would also be able
as the 'organisation of record'
to certify that the original instructor
was trained, endorsed, certified and audited by GFA
and therefore did trai
The June issue of the SAGA magazine the "Soaring Crow" ezine is
available from the SAGA Web site, and can be downloaded from:
www.aus-soaring.on.net/saga/members
The next issue, September, will be published after the AGM.
regards, Beverley
Beverley Matthews Email
On 21/06/2010, at 3:31 AM, DMcD wrote:
The key supporter of this list sells & operates dongles
thank you Simon
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From the long term (personal) view :
- initial cost $10k
- 'running costs' $4k
- run time 25 years
- tariff costs avoided $12k
+ asset value to hand + certainty of power supply
On 26/05/2010, at 9:50 AM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
So how much did the cells cost
1. To you?
2.Total including govern
The SAGA magazine the Soaring Crow has recommenced.and the first of
the new issue of this ezine is available from the SAGA Web site, and
can be downloaded from:
www.aus-soaring.on.net/saga/members
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This side topic was raised after Simon had his mumble on BLIPMAPs and
related stuff.
Accepting that for many/most; the hobby of gliding is just that; a
distinct segment in life with other quite separate segments like
family, work, other associations.
And for some/ a few; gliding is an integr
This is relevant to possibly JoeyGlide?
extracted from CLUB DEV NET
(which I assume most gliding clubs in Australia are registered with
[aren't you?])
"
Previously only available to young athletes, the Local Sporting
Champions grants eligibility criteria has been broadened to recognise
t
On 25/11/2009, at 9:08 AM, David Lawley wrote:
I tried to raise the subject some years while ago, and got nowhere.
I now try to think of it as delightfully rustic
Or set up and operate (& pay for) a forum yourself
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On 17/11/2009, at 12:32 PM, Texler, Michael wrote:
Mike Borgelt said:
"You do realise that the official magazine censors any articles which
may be construed as critical of the GFA or its policies don't you? Even
articles that have a bearing on safety and that only vaguely could be
seen as critic
As the list hasn't followed my suggestion to leave off topic, you get
what you asked
see also blog.internode.on.net Friday 30th Oct
Flying sailplanes (for some people) is about harnessing energy so that
this can be used to achieve speed or distance. By low loss flying,
seeking to extract
On 30/10/2009, at 10:31 PM, Todd Sandercock wrote:
Does anyone have any figures on the fuel consumption of a winch??
1 litre / launch incl. all return drive and associated running around
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On 30/10/2009, at 7:21 PM, Mark Newton wrote:
So I'm not particularly convinced by the Prius. Yes, they crank
an impressive car out of a tiny engine, but
Mark is absolutely right about the fuel consumption if you drive Prii
the way he describes.
Driving it like a conventional ICE only car w
On 28/10/2009, at 6:41 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
It really is a pity you can't run a high tech civilization on pixie
dust, unicorn farts and good intentions.
Thank you Mike,
and while governments do nothing (as you request), and doubters expend
their energy doubting; some people go out and co
Hi Mike,
I'm Rachel, Emilis's partner.
You need to listen to Simon's answers to all of this. Actually you have
the wrong end of the stick, particularly when it comes to battery
technology and cost compared to petrol. (And I know how good you are at
what you do!)
Incidentally, they officially
On 13/10/2009, at 8:23 PM, Al Borowski wrote:
Hi all,
In another forum I read, I encountered the following document:
"CASA confirmed the total removal of the parallel path from CAO 95.4.
This is a
break from what has been publicly consulted policy by CASA in the Part
103
NPRM and will pr
The South Australian Gliding Association, as part of its 2009 AGM, held
its club development meet at Waikerie on August 15.
The format was arranged by SA RDO Ann Philcox, and Maurice Little GFA
Chair Dev Cmmttee attended and led the discussion topics.
Representatives for most clubs in the regi
Ten tips for boosting club membership
<>
Boosting memberships helps a clubs long-term viability.
23 Jun 2009
Beyond blanket statements along the lines of ‘a healthy membership
leads to a vital organisation’, there are concrete reasons why sports
clubs need a robust membership base.
With m
On Mon, 11 May 2009 20:31:31 +1000, Gary Stevenson wrote:
> If
>the top
>management is incompetent or weak, then it is unlikely that they
>will "go
>into bat" jump up and down, scream and shout etc to make sure that
>the
>Minister is fully aware of all the issues, and thus can go to
>Parliament
>a
Tim Shirley
>The structure matters only to the
>extent that it affects the outcome for members, and its not clear to
>me
>that a better outcome would necessarily result.
>
>Sean Jorgensen-Day
>>You may find that like many other members we simply don't really
>>mind what the GFA does as long as we
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:57:20 +1100, sean.jorgensen...@activ8.net.au
wrote:
>And if you look out the window the Cu's are popping about 12,000.
>Would have been a corker!
At my end of the world they popped in 4500' airspace, thereby
becoming illegal convection
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