Hi, Gilberto,
At 01:43 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
>>What do you mean by spiritual validity. Is it about becoming a certain kind
>>of person? Reaching enlightenment? Salvation? Something else?<<
In this case, I meant whatever God might consider to be a valid construction of
reality. Although we
I do put a certain amount of thought into my responses although
at times I might lose patience,Khazeh:> In other words however
lowly i am i wish to identify with the position> of the martyred uncle of
the Bab and i would beg and beseech once> again brother Gilberto to
consider the real i
On 10/23/05, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> without wishing to enter this arena of discussion again because its one
> requirement seems to be instant and rapid response [and this servant] is
> used to detailed analysis and reverence and thoughtful response__ without
> wishing to r
Gilberto:
Ok. I heard you. So then I asked you to tell me specifically where I"mwrong. If you don't think I get it, what is it specifically that I'mnot seeing? Did I say something that wasn't true? Did I ommitsomething important? Something else? What?Haj:
You oversimplify Baha'i principles.
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/23/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam wrote:> > Gilberto:> > Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran you> > need to see it through the M
Gilberto:So would you believe that in
order to understand the Bahai writings that you have to believe in them? And
again I would repeat, in order to understand the Quran, is it necessary to adopt
a Muslim paradigm?Scott: You asked Khazeh why if he loved
Muhammed he was not a Muslim, that is
On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Gilberto:
> But the things I've said about progressive revelation are actually
> based on things I've read from the writings as well as things I've
> heard from other Bahais.
> Haj:
> But they don't look familiar to me the way to character
On 10/23/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, I'm not so sure that there is a "Muslim" paradigm as such: there is
> a Wahhabi Sunni paradigm, there is a Si`ah paradigm, there is a
> Sufi/mystical pradigm, a Hanbali Sunni paradigm, a Shafi`i paradigm, etc.,
> etc.
Yes and no. W
On 10/23/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam wrote:
> > Gilberto:
> > Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran you
> > need to see it through the Muslim paradigm? If not, what would be
> >
Gilberto:
But the things I've said about progressive revelation are actuallybased on things I've read from the writings as well as things I'veheard from other Bahais.
Haj:
But they don't look familiar to me the way to characterize them. I don't think I'm alone.
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Gilberto:
So do Bahais understand the Quran?Haj:
See Scott's response.
.
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Well, I'm not so sure that there is a "Muslim" paradigm as such: there is
a Wahhabi Sunni paradigm, there is a Si`ah paradigm, there is a
Sufi/mystical pradigm, a Hanbali Sunni paradigm, a Shafi`i paradigm, etc.,
etc. For example, my understanding is that for a very simple and
straightforward thing
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> Gilberto:> Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran you> need to see it through the Muslim paradigm? If not, what would be> wrong with viewing the Bahai writings throug
On 10/23/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran you
> need to see it through the Muslim paradigm?"
> You'd have to persuade me that there is a a single "Muslim paradigm" and
> that this is the same paradigm as the Qur'an itse
On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Haj:
> > Your arguments against the Baha'i notion of P.R. don't make sense at all.
> > You argue against something that's alien to me, as if you are arguing
> > against someone else's belief, not mine. That's probably why we disagree.
>
On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran you
> need to see it through the Muslim paradigm? If not, what would be
> wrong with viewing the Bahai writings through the Muslim paradigm?
> Haj:
> I think I
"Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran you
need to see it through the Muslim paradigm?"
You'd have to persuade me that there is a a single "Muslim paradigm" and
that this is the same paradigm as the Qur'an itself first.
The information contained in this e-mail and
> Haj:> Your arguments against the Baha'i notion of P.R. don't make sense at all.> You argue against something that's alien to me, as if you are arguing> against someone else's belief, not mine. That's probably why we disagree.
Gilberto:Part of me mentioning the amount of time I've been in
Gilberto:
Would it also be fair to say that to really understand the Quran youneed to see it through the Muslim paradigm? If not, what would bewrong with viewing the Bahai writings through the Muslim paradigm?
Haj:
I think I would agree that for me to understand the Quran and Islam, I would
On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> Do you think it
> is possible to understand a religious text without believing in it?
> Haj:
> Not sure if you have to believe in it, but you sure do have to see it
> through its own paradigm. Let me know how I can help.
Woul
On 10/23/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
(question directed at Hajir)
> "Do you think it
> is possible to understand a religious text without believing in it?"
> Dear Gilberto,
> Sure. Especially if one is prepared to listen for the Word of God whether
> one is certain it can be foun
"Do you think it
is possible to understand a religious text without believing in it?"
Dear Gilberto,
Sure. Especially if one is prepared to listen for the Word of God whether
one is certain it can be found there or not.
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attac
Gilberto: I have spent a chunk of time in this forum and soc.religion.bahaitrying to better understand the Bahai faith.
Haj:
Tell me something I don't know. : )
Gilberto:I might just take you up on that. I"m curious though. Do you think itis possible to understand a religious text witho
On 10/23/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Good morning,
Good morning : )
Gilberto:
> > I haven't seen any evidence. I've seen Bahai attempts at explaining
> > the Quran in a non-mainstream way, but that's all. The Bahai
> > interpretations aren't particularly compelling to me.
Good morning,
> I haven't seen any evidence. I've seen Bahai attempts at explaining> the Quran in a non-mainstream way, but that's all. The Bahai> interpretations aren't particularly compelling to me.
Its interesting, because I have not been convinced that your way of looking at it is all t
On 10/22/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto:
> > I think that in general matters of human life, the sanctitiy of human
> > life, are related to the essential fundamental principles.
> So are you saying that it is an essential fundamental principle to kill
> apostates?
No. In
On 10/22/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto,
> I'm surprised you haven't brought up the concept of abrogation 'naskh' and
> progressive revelation within the Qur'an itself. Why do you object to
> progressive revelation and abrogation by Baha'i Writings over the Qur'an,
> b
> I think that in general matters of human life, the sanctitiy of human> life, are related to the essential fundamental principles.
So are you saying that it is an essential fundamental principle to kill apostates?
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Gilberto,
I'm surprised you haven't brought up the concept of abrogation 'naskh' and progressive revelation within the Qur'an itself. Why do you object to progressive revelation and abrogation by Baha'i Writings over the Qur'an, but hide the issues over abrogration and progressive revelati
Hajir,
I think the following is pretty repetitive on my part.. I think there
is a core idea behind most of the responses which I'm trying to get
across and came up in different ways.
On 10/22/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto:
> But there are parts of the shariah which I wo
Gilberto,
> But there are parts of the shariah which I would include in that fundamental
> essential aspect but which Bahais would not.
What is a fundamental essential aspect of the Islamic law that I as a Baha'i disagreed was essential? All religions teach:
1. pure and kind heartedn
On 10/22/05, Max Jasper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When God punishes man for his perversity, that is not called "genocide".
> "genocide" is done by man to man.
>
I agree. I wasn't refering to the cases of fire and brimstone raining
down on folks from heaven or heavenly plagues. I was talking abo
When God punishes man for his perversity, that is not called "genocide".
"genocide" is done by man to man.
|
|I would say that genocide is always wrong, but some Bahais (like some
|Christians) have argued that some genocides (like those
|attributed to God in the OT) are ok.
|
The information
On 10/22/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto:
> Even if they last for over a millenia before changing, moral values
> shouldn't just be a "fad". I'm sure there are ways that specific
> circumstances change. But we should be able to apply *some* kind of moral
> reasoning based o
>
Even if they last for over a millenia before changing, moral values shouldn't just be a "fad". I'm sure there are ways that specific circumstances change. But we should be able to apply *some* kind of moral reasoning based on more fundamental principles.<
Gilberto, I agree. For this r
On 10/21/05, Tim Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Gilberto,
> To Iskandar:
> >So from that perspective, and your interpretation of the hadith,
> killing apostates is A-OK until 1843.<
> My personal view is that hadith are not authoritative, except for the ones
> quoted by Baha'h'llah or Abd
Hi Gilberto,
To Iskandar:
>So from that perspective, and your interpretation of the hadith,killing apostates is A-OK until 1843.<
My personal view is that hadith are not authoritative, except for the ones
quoted by Baha'h'llah or Abdu'l Baha. I don't know of any place in the Baha'i
writi
On 10/21/05, Iskandar Hai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wouldn't want to impose my 21st century values, sensibilities, ethics,
> standards, etc. upon God nor upon His Prophet Muhammad in the 7th
> century. If the Prophet Muhmmad said it (and I have no compelling reason
> that He didn't), then it w
I wouldn't want to impose my 21st century values, sensibilities, ethics,
standards, etc. upon God nor upon His Prophet Muhammad in the 7th
century. If the Prophet Muhmmad said it (and I have no compelling reason
that He didn't), then it was the Will of God for Him to make that
statement at that
On 10/20/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for your attempts at clarifying the issue; but, with all due
> respect, I'm not persuaded yet that the Bukhari hadith that Hajir
> mentioned is fake. But I'd love to be able to belive what you say below.
I'm not trying to argue th
Thanks for your attempts at clarifying the issue; but, with all due
respect, I'm not persuaded yet that the Bukhari hadith that Hajir
mentioned is fake. But I'd love to be able to belive what you say below.
Iskandar
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> On 10/20/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
I'm very happy you said that, Gilberto: "So it would be clearly wrong to kill someone who had done nothing wrong."
The problem is, it is "wrong" for a Muslim to become a Baha'i. This is a greatest form of challenge for any religion that springs out of Islam, especially a religion that clai
On 10/20/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wouldn't want to read into that hadith things that are not obviously and
> clearly in it. That would be distortion and misrepresentation.
Personally, I would want to avoid fundamentalism and a certain narrow
minded approach. For most q
I wouldn't want to read into that hadith things that are not obviously and
clearly in it. That would be distortion and misrepresentation. Unless, of
course, one can find another particular hadith that specifically,
explicitly, and clearly addresses this hadith and elaborates on it and
clarifies it.
I certainly wish that Bukhari had not quoted it; but, I think that theProphet Muhammad said it. Again, I'd love to be see some compellingevidence that the hadith is a fake and that He never said it. But, thefact that I, now in the 21st century, wish that He had not said it is nota compellin
On 10/20/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/20/05, Mark A. Foster wrote:
> > Gilberto,
> > At 07:42 AM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
> > >>I would say that if you can "translate" different perspectives into one
> another in a way which rec
On 10/20/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I certainly wish that Bukhari had not quoted it; but, I think that the
> Prophet Muhammad said it. Again, I'd love to be see some compelling
> evidence that the hadith is a fake and that He never said it. But, the
> fact that I, now in th
On 10/20/05, Mark Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What I am arguing for is contextualization. It is difficult enough comparing
> narratives of the same religious category (different Baha'i faiths, Islams,
> Buddhisms, etc.) Comparing narratives produced within different historical
> and cult
Hi, Gilberto,
>>I'm not trying or intending to assume omniscience. It's all a work in
>>progress. It's all tentative. Suppose there are two people and one of
them says "I believe in 6 gods" while the other one says, "I believe in 203
gods". It might turn out that the two of them can sit down
tog
I certainly wish that Bukhari had not quoted it; but, I think that the
Prophet Muhammad said it. Again, I'd love to be see some compelling
evidence that the hadith is a fake and that He never said it. But, the
fact that I, now in the 21st century, wish that He had not said it is not
a compelling re
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/20/05, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> Gilberto,> At 07:42 AM 10/20/2005, you wrote:> >>I would say that if you can "translate" different perspectives into one another in a way which reconciles them, then one doesn't really negate t
On 10/20/05, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto,
> At 07:42 AM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
> >>I would say that if you can "translate" different perspectives into one
> >>another in a way which reconciles them, then one doesn't really negate the
> >>other. in the first place.<<
> W
Gilberto,
At 07:42 AM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
>>I would say that if you can "translate" different perspectives into one
>>another in a way which reconciles them, then one doesn't really negate the
>>other. in the first place.<<
Wouldn't that need to assume some kind of omniscience? In other word
Iskandar and Hajir,
I really would appreciate a more responsive answer. Do you even
believe that it is within the realm of possiblity that Muhammad
(saaws) a Manifestation of God, the same God that you believe sent the
Bab and Bahaullah to usher in an era of world peace, do you believe
that it is
On 10/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 10/19/05 10:15:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >Gilberto:
> >I see where you are coming from. But I would still label the Muslim
> >interpretation of what Muhammad taught as "Islamic principles". The
> >Bahai interp
I don't have any particularly compelling reason to belive that the hadith
that the authoritative Bukhari cites is fake but I'd love to be see
compelling evidence that the Prophet Muhammad never said such a thing.
Regards,
Iskandar
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> On 10/19/05, Ha
On 10/20/05, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto,
> At 09:59 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
> >>I would say that Islam is true and other religions are not true (although
> >>many contain alot of wisdom and truth). I think anyone who believes in
> >>anything also disbelieves in the ne
Gilberto,
At 11:38 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
>>Which religion says all religions are true?<<
Many New Agers hold to that viewpoint, including Adi Da (born Franklin Jones),
the founder of "the true world-religion of Adidam" (formerly Free Daism), and
Ken Wilber. Adi Da is Wilber's former guru.
Gilberto,
At 09:59 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
>>I would say that Islam is true and other religions are not true (although
>>many contain alot of wisdom and truth). I think anyone who believes in
>>anything also disbelieves in the negations of that thing.<<
I don't necessarily.
"Although the div
In a message dated 10/19/05 10:15:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Sekhmet:
>> Agreed, but please consider that they may do it with good intentions,
>> because
>> it's a loaded issue that can prompt a defensive (and not always polite)
>> reaction from Muslims.
>
>Gilberto:
>Yeah, I see that. On b
You have no basis for making such assumptions.
On 10/20/05, Max Jasper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am relatively sure he would claim this refers to Baha'is, and they must be
> killed as the Prophet instructed.
>
>
> The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
> ("e-
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hajir: Does Islam set up a hierarchy of religions at all?
> > Gilberto: I wouldn't call it a hierarchy.
> > Hajir: Do you mean that Islam is superior to the Baha'i Faith in this
> sense?
> Gilberto: I would say that Islam is true an
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hajir:
> > What about the Hadith?
> Gilberto: There is no justification in Islam for attacking peaceful,
> tax-paying
> non-Muslims.
> Hajir:
> Please explain this Hadith to me:
> " Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:
> I heard
Title: Message
I am
relatively sure he would claim this refers to Baha'is, and they must be killed
as the Prophet instructed.
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to
> Hajir:> What about the Hadith?
Gilberto: There is no justification in Islam for attacking peaceful, tax-payingnon-Muslims.
Hajir:
Please explain this Hadith to me:
"Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:
I heard the Prophet saying, "In the last days (of the world) there will appea
> > Hajir: Does Islam set up a hierarchy of religions at all?> Gilberto: I wouldn't call it a hierarchy.> Hajir: Do you mean that Islam is superior to the Baha'i Faith in this sense?Gilberto: I would say that Islam is true and other religions are not true(although many contain alot of wisd
> Hajir:> What about the Hadith?Gilberto: There is no justification in Islam for attacking peaceful, tax-payingnon-Muslims.Hajir:
Please explain this Hadith to me:
"
Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:
I heard the Prophet saying, "In the last days (of the world) there will appear
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hajir: Does Islam set up a hierarchy of religions at all?
> Gilberto: I wouldn't call it a hierarchy.
> Hajir: Do you mean that Islam is superior to the Baha'i Faith in this sense?
I would say that Islam is true and other religions a
> Gilberto:> I see where you are coming from. But I would still label the Muslim> interpretation of what Muhammad taught as "Islamic principles". The> Bahai interpretation of what Muhammad (or the Bab or Bahaullah etc.)> taught would be "Bahai principles". So in that sense Bahais are> criti
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> > I'm not sure what is your point. There are other passages in the Quran
> > which talk about not being the aggressor in the first place. There is
> > no justification in the Quran for attacking peaceful, tax-paying
> > non-Mus
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining. You know?
> Hajir:
> Hmm... what do you *really* mean by this analogy?
Are you joking around with me :)
I honestly can't tell.
> Gilberto:
> I see where you are coming from. But
subjective... I meant subjective.
> But I don't think I'm arguing over subjective qualities. I think if we are> looking for Truth, we should be able to identify it by more concrete means.
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> Hajir: Does Islam set up a hierarchy of religions at all?Gilberto: I wouldn't call it a hierarchy.
Hajir: Do you mean that Islam is superior to the Baha'i Faith in this sense?
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The information contained in th
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Gilberto:
> No. The whole point of the analogy is to be non-hierarchical. If John
> is married to Jane, John will probably say that his wife is the most
> beautiful woman in the world. If Ahmed is married to Fatima, Ahmed
> will also proba
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto: I don't think Islam sets up a hierarchy of religions according to
> time, no.
> Hajir: Does Islam set up a hierarchy of religions at all?
I wouldn't call it a hierarchy. There are different categories I
suppose. There are Musli
Gilberto:
> I'm not sure what is your point. There are other passages in the Quran> which talk about not being the aggressor in the first place. There is> no justification in the Quran for attacking peaceful, tax-paying> non-Muslims.
Hajir:
What about the Hadith?
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Gilberto:Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining. You know?
Hajir:
Hmm... what do you *really* mean by this analogy?
Gilberto:I see where you are coming from. But I would still label the Musliminterpretation of what Muhammad taught as "Islamic principles". TheBahai interpretation of wha
Gilberto:
No. The whole point of the analogy is to be non-hierarchical. If Johnis married to Jane, John will probably say that his wife is the mostbeautiful woman in the world. If Ahmed is married to Fatima, Ahmedwill also probably say that his wife is the most beautiful woman inthe world. B
On 10/19/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 10/18/05 1:09:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> [snipped 'cause I think we've reached mutual understanding on the first part]
> >Sekhmet:
> >> Of course we feel that some of them are now unsuitable-- the Manifestation
Gilberto: I don't think Islam sets up a hierarchy of religions according totime, no.
Hajir: Does Islam set up a hierarchy of religions at all?
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Given the context of the discussion, I would ask you to be honest and
explicit about what you are saying. What is the point you are trying
to make?
-Gilberto
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Whosoever killed a person – unless it be for killing a person or for
> creati
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have
> disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from
> among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if
> they turn back, then seize them a
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> > So if you are married to the Bahai faith and think its the greatest
> > religion in the world, that's your perception. But that doesn't mean
> > that everyone else is going to see it the same way. And another person
> > might
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> > I've said this before but the Bahai faith obviously sets up a
> > hierarchy of different religions with the most recent religion
> > (itself) on the top. And I think that is necessarily messed up.
> Hajir:
> Are you suggesti
"Whosoever killed a person – unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land – it shall be as if he killed all mankind; and whoso saved a life, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind." (5:32)
"According to this verse of the Qur'an, if one human being i
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they havedisbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not fromamong them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but ifthey turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them,and take not from among
Gilberto:
> So if you are married to the Bahai faith and think its the greatest> religion in the world, that's your perception. But that doesn't mean> that everyone else is going to see it the same way. And another person> might be perfectly happy without being married to Bahai.
Hajir:
A
Gilberto:
> I've said this before but the Bahai faith obviously sets up a> hierarchy of different religions with the most recent religion> (itself) on the top. And I think that is necessarily messed up.
Hajir:
Are you suggesting that Islam doesn't do that, while the Baha'i Faith does?
In a message dated 10/18/05 1:09:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[snipped 'cause I think we've reached mutual understanding on the first part]
>Sekhmet:
>> Of course we feel that some of them are now unsuitable-- the Manifestation
>of
>> God for this Day has told us so, and has provided us with su
Title: Message
'Abdu'l-Bahá then shared some humorous stories and
laughingly stated that:
Once there were three passengers on a ship: a Muslim, a
Christian and a Jew.
The Muslim prayed, 'O God, take the life of this
Christian!'
The Christian prayed, 'Lord, slay this Muslim.'
Then they
On 10/18/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have to very much agree with you on this. It is sometimes
> firmly entrenched in the way we think and communicate our
> beliefs to others.
> I had a friend, a Jew, who honestly explained to me that he had > had a Bahai
> speak of the Judai
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/18/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> I think Baha'is should publish a book like the "Bible" which> includes the> Old Testament and the New Testament under one cover.> The Baha'i version of this book would include the Old> Testament, th
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/18/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> I think Baha'is should publish a book like the "Bible" which> includes the> Old Testament and the New Testament under one cover.> The Baha'i version of this book would include the Old> Testament, th
On 10/18/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think Baha'is should publish a book like the "Bible" which
> includes the
> Old Testament and the New Testament under one cover.
> The Baha'i version of this book would include the Old
> Testament, the New
> Testament, the Quran, the Bay
Likewise, my Qur'an and Bible and al-Aqdas occupy the highest shelf of my bookshelf (about head-level), and I kiss everyone of them when I open and close them, and I read and study both. It seems dear Mr. Simpson that you are quick to judge.
ajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/17
On 10/17/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> > Gilberto,> >> > Obviously Baha'is believe that Islamic laws are unsuitable for the> > modern-times. That's why we have Baha'i Laws.> You think its obvious. And I think its obvious. But apparently alot of> Bahais don't want to admit t
On 10/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 10/17/05 4:28:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >Well, what's your definition of "disparaging"?
> "Criticizing" or "lowering in status", but like its sister words "demeaning"
> and "denigrating" it has negative connot
Susan
At 12:51 AM 10/17/2005, you wrote:
>>Baha'u'llah seemed to think that the Gospels reflected the 'thoughts' of
>>Jesus. I think the issue of authenticity is whether the Qur'an and the Baha'i
>>Writings contain the words of the Manifestations, not simply reflect their
>>thoughts.<<
Where d
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/17/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> Gilberto,>> Obviously Baha'is believe that Islamic laws are unsuitable for the> modern-times. That's why we have Baha'i Laws.>You think its obvious. And I think its obvious. But apparently a l
In a message dated 10/17/05 4:28:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Well, what's your definition of "disparaging"?
"Criticizing" or "lowering in status", but like its sister words "demeaning"
and "denigrating" it has negative connotations I don't care for, implying that
the criticism is unjusti
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