Philip Meyer;602248 Wrote:
I only add the ALBUMARTIST tag, remove the COMPILATION tag, to force
Squeezebox Server to list this album under the ALBUMARTIST and not
under the Various Artist menu. It would be nice though if it could be
listed under both the Album Artist and the Various Artist
yes, genres are tricky, but i disagree that it would be silly to have
an album listed under multiple genres. whats the problem with that?
once you went into the album, you'd only see songs matching the genre.
what i am trying to say is that i think starting a sort with genre
would be fine.
If
i see you and others tell people all the time to delete their AA tags
on comps. that advice is no good if they use WMP or winamp.
No, I don't say to delete AA tags on comps. That's fine (but what I do say is
they are not compilations in that case, unless compilation tag is also added).
What I
I personally feel that Logitech has taken the consistency between
interfaces paradigm a bit to far with the result that all interfaces
towards a Squeezebox is very consistent but also less useful/user
friendly compared what could have been the case.
I personally think that some parts of the UI's
I can confirm this is NOT a problem with Squeezebox Server 7.5.3 -
r31741.
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JJZolx;602063 Wrote:
an album with an ALBUMARTIST tag and no COMPILATION tag will not be
considered a compilation by Squeezebox Server.
I don't care if Squeezebox Server considers it a compilation album or
not, I expect to find this Album in the artist menu under the Album
Artist (which it
I only add the ALBUMARTIST tag, remove the COMPILATION tag, to force
Squeezebox Server to list this album under the ALBUMARTIST and not
under the Various Artist menu. It would be nice though if it could be
listed under both the Album Artist and the Various Artist menu.
I think it does, if you add
Created a bug report.
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16791
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verypsb;601948 Wrote:
Created a bug report.
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16791
I haven't really followed the last 50 or so posts in this thread, but
in your bug report titled -No tracks listed on compilation albums with
an 'Album Artist' tag, but without a 'Compilation' tag,
IN the real world there is no such attribute as album artist, as
discussed in most of this thread. There is an engineered attribute
which was historically used to guide a record shop owner as to where
physically to stock/display an album in their shop (or list it in their
catalogues!).
This
I think Erland is the right track they have taken this route to make the
player interfaces and web-UI similar to far .
It would actually be much better if they where distinctly -dissimilar-
that would cause less confusion, than what we have know where they are
somewhat similar and gets mixed up
I agree with a lot of your synopsis post...
Phil Leigh;601568 Wrote:
IN the real world there is no such attribute as album artist, as
discussed in most of this thread.
... apart from this bit ;-)
There is a real-world attribute album artist - it's the name that
appears on the spine of a CD
Are you sure? I don't think I'm seeing this. I think I have added
COMPILATION=1 to all of my compilation albums, rather than auto-detect
compilations as I sometimes load them into iTunes. Maybe this makes a
difference?
The genre behaviour I am sure of (at least I see track artists from VA
Philip Meyer;601537 Wrote:
And this is the problem. If I put AA tags on my album with different
track artists, I can't browse (and thus play) any of the tracks on the
Squeezebox Controller and/or iPeng. The Squeezebox Server web
interface
works as expected...
I haven't got a Squeezebox
Exported tags:
%artist% - %title% - %album% - %compilation% - %albumartist% -
%track% - %year% - %genre% - %comment% - %_filename_ext%
The Cure - A Forest (Extended Mix) - 12/80s [Disc 1] - - 12/80s -
01 - 2001 - Rock - - 01 - The Cure , A Forest (Extended
Mix).flac
Aztec
Is SBS using it's compilation indication for something else than
removing artists from the main Artists menu and putting their albums
into Artists/Various Artists ?
Just to be absolutely clear, it doesn't necessarily always remove the artists
from the artists list; a contibuting artist will
Okay, more flexibility would be lovely. But, Logitech have shown no
interest in improving the UI to be more flexible, and in effect have a
higher maintenance cost. You are not interested in paying more money
for such functionality and think you should just get it for free for
some reason.
this whole argument of yours is just so baseless on its face; afterall
you use custom browse exactly b/c you want these abilities but can't
have them in the native app. why in gods name would you fight against
them doing it better?
Because it would never happen. SBS will NEVER have better
there are way too many posts and simultaneous conversations going on to
respond to them all, so instead i just want to hammer home some
notions.
FIRST OF ALL,[/B] THE CURRENT IMPLEMENTATION SUCKS. IT SUCKS B/C IT IS
NOT USER FRIENDLY AND NOT INTUITIVE AND NOT FLEXIBLE. I'VE USED SBS A
LONG
MrSinatra;601262 Wrote:
first of all the current implementation sucks. it sucks b/c it is not
user friendly and not intuitive and not flexible.
No, the current implementation doesn't suck. The implementation is
doing exactly what it was set out/designed to do. It may not be how
you would
it is insane, ok, INSANE that i can't on the fly switch between browsing
all artists, or browsing album artists. THAT IS A PROBLEM PHIL.
I don't think it's insane. Certainly it would be nice to have a way
browsing only artists that have albums or all artists, or only
composers, or only
you should be able to customize subsets of results. i don't want
whatever few different entry points to the WHOLE library SBS gives me,
thats stupid. i do want to be able to create as many views as i
want, that create results lists based on the criteria i choose.
Try Custom Browse then.
once inside a view, i should be able to sort it anyway i want based on
the sorting method i pick.
This one I have more trouble with, in that music isn't as simple to
list in a flat table. This is what confused me with your one master
list terminology. Artists, Albums, Songs, Genres, Years,
Philip Meyer;601290 Wrote:
No, the current implementation doesn't suck. The implementation is
doing exactly what it was set out/designed to do. It may not be how
you would like to visualise your library. It may not be totally
flexible, but it is intuitive and works. There are loads of
SBS has ridiculously conflated AA tags as meaningful as to comp
status... they aren't and shouldn't be! lots of apps put AA tags on
comps ON PURPOSE!!! [b]like it or not, thats the FACT.
You are talking way over the top here. SBS doesn't get in the way of
that at all. If people put AA
Philip Meyer;601293 Wrote:
I don't think it's insane. Certainly it would be nice to have a way
browsing only artists that have albums or all artists, or only
composers, or only orchestras, etc. But for almost all casual users,
this is not a problem at all.
Why do you see it a PROBLEM for
Philip Meyer;601308 Wrote:
You are talking way over the top here.
i am? by pointing out the facts? no, i don't think so.
Philip Meyer;601308 Wrote:
SBS doesn't get in the way of that at all. If people put AA tags on
their albums, everything will act just like any other (below-par) app.
Philip Meyer;601308 Wrote:
If people put AA tags on their albums, everything will act just like any
other (below-par) app.
And this is the problem. If I put AA tags on my album with different
track artists, I can't browse and thus play) any of the tracks on the
Squeezebox Controller and/or
When you guys talk about a compilation what do you really mean ?
Is SBS using it's compilation indication for something else than
removing artists from the main Artists menu and putting their albums
into Artists/Various Artists ?
I feel that I've probably missed something and compilation is
MrSinatra;601262 Wrote:
-...a final note to erland...-
you said earlier that you don't care whats in tags, you care whats in
the DB. this really makes no sense. the DB, at least mine, is made up
of what it scanned from my tags. the whole point of an app like SBS or
winamp or whatever
verypsb;601397 Wrote:
And this is the problem. If I put AA tags on my album with different
track artists, I can't browse (and thus play) any of the tracks on the
Squeezebox Controller and/or iPeng. The Squeezebox Server web interface
works as expected...
Is this because of some bug ? Why
erland;601403 Wrote:
1.
You can put ALBUMARTIST tags on your music and it will just work, put
ALBUMARTIST=European Artists on some album and ALBUMARTIST=American
Artists on some other albums and you will get a European Artists and
a American Artists menu in your artists list, isn't this
vagskal;601451 Wrote:
If an album has both an AA tag and a compilation tag, the album artist
will not show up in the artist list (at least not if you have set this
list to show only album artists). I have not tried your second example
but my guess is that there will be a VA entry in the
erland;601461 Wrote:
Why would anyone have ALBUMARTIST and COMPILATION=1 on a track ? Is
there a reason for this ?
The only reason I can think of is if you don't want the artist to
appear in the artist list and instead appear under Various Artists.
Or maybe if you want compilation Best
Why would anyone have ALBUMARTIST and COMPILATION=1 on a track ? Is
there a reason for this ?
The Album Artist is just denoting the artist for the album. I don't use the
two in combination, but other people may.
In a list of Albums, SBS always shows the album artist name instead of its
If an album has both an AA tag and a compilation tag, the album artist
will not show up in the artist list (at least not if you have set this
list to show only album artists).
I think this is because all compilations are shown under the artist name used
to represent compilations. When you get
As Philip has said multiple times
Sorry, I get passionate and easily wound up!
you can do exactly this with third party plugins and SBS already today.
The difference is that in Winamp it's included as standard and in Winamp
it's quite a bit easier to configure. The third party plugins for SBS is
And this is the problem. If I put AA tags on my album with different
track artists, I can't browse and thus play) any of the tracks on the
Squeezebox Controller and/or iPeng. The Squeezebox Server web interface
works as expected...
I haven't got a Squeezebox Controller, so I can't confirm any bugs
Philip Meyer;601536 Wrote:
The thing is that the browse menus need to work across a multitude of
different interfaces, which other apps like WinAmp haven't got to worry
about so much.
The WinAmp interface is clearly optimized for usage on a computer
screen.
However, I strongly want to
Philip Meyer;601534 Wrote:
If an album has both an AA tag and a compilation tag, the album artist
will not show up in the artist list (at least not if you have set this
list to show only album artists).
I think this is because all compilations are shown under the artist
name used to
Philip Meyer;600755 Wrote:
Unless I've missed something, SBS Artists menu is exactly the same
as
the Album Artists menu in other applications, at least if you have
ALBUMARTIST tags in all your music. If you don't have ALBUMARTIST
tags,
SBS Artists menu probably behaves better than the
Philip Meyer;600756 Wrote:
That's roughly what I'd like to see as well. The group compilation
albums pref would be unnecessary and could go away completely, as
the
Album Artists view is what results from grouping them and the
Artists view is the result of not 'grouping' them.
I agree
For people that have a lot
of compilation albums the list of albums under Various Artists is
going to get pretty long and in this case it would probably be a good
idea to select an individual artist to find the correct compilation
album. These users probably deactivate the Group compilation albums
Well this is another issue, I suspect most users who listen to
classical music would prefer to also have separate Composers and
Conductors menus in parallel with the artist menus. It would be
better to have separate menus for composers and conductors and instead
have the option to hide them if you
Philip Meyer;600791 Wrote:
I must admit that although I have added an All Artists list via
Custom Browse, I hardly ever use it, because if I want to know if I
have any tracks by an obscure artist, I just search for the artist,
rather than try to browse a rather large list.
I'm guessing
I'm guessing you don't do this on Radio or Controller ?
I hardly use Radio or Touch - I find the UI annoying. SB3/Transporter/Boom is
so much nicer. Quicker, more functionality, less likely to accidentally play
something. I'm praying my SB3 lasts forever for my bedroom, as it's
Philip Meyer;600870 Wrote:
Searching works good with touch screen/mouse or with IR
remote+LazySearch but neither of these options are available on
Radio/Controller.
I assume Lazy Search would work on Radio, if you use an SB3 IR remote?
No, I think it currently only supports the old
Mnyb;600479 Wrote:
Hmm I would argue that AA tags are not very common at all .
The typical recomended string for EAC does not add it and cd rippers
using freedb never adds it ? I don't think it is in freedB's metadata
.
And freedB is7was a very common way to get this data
And
You are right, I missed the albums.contributor column, I was just
looking at the roles in the contributor_track and contributor_album
tables. Now the current database contents makes a bit more sense.
There is a difference/something to bear in mind.
Obviously album.contributor can only have one
JJZolx;600477 Wrote:
Having a compilation album with no explicit ALBUMARTIST will mean
that the track-artists end up in the album artist browse list.
snip
Cons:
The big drawback is #4 above. Without adding that explicit ALBUMARTIST
to keep compilations separate from other albums and to
whatever, put the power in the users hands! don't have restrictive,
unintuitive, ridiculous, silly methods of entry (homealbums,
homeartists, etc...)
Why is that silly???
You say you want more than one view, and SBS has that - Browse Artists, Browse
Albums, etc.
And then you say that's silly.
Philip Meyer;600494 Wrote:
You are right, I missed the albums.contributor column, I was just
looking at the roles in the contributor_track and contributor_album
tables. Now the current database contents makes a bit more sense.
There is a difference/something to bear in mind.
Obviously
Another dumb Q for my own education. (I'll ask now while the s/n of
tread is on it's way down)
Is not logitech missing the point with a dB ? in the first place .
If they prefilter the information prior to storing it :confused:
Should not a datbase be simply as storage off information about the
Philip Meyer;600503 Wrote:
If you have the time and is interested in helping, I would love if you
would try the Tags menu provided by Custom Browse when used
together with the Mixed Tag scanning module in Custom Scan plugin
and give me some feedback.
I don't think that's what he is looking
Philip Meyer;600500 Wrote:
whatever, put the power in the users hands! don't have restrictive,
unintuitive, ridiculous, silly methods of entry (homealbums,
homeartists, etc...)
Why is that silly???
You say you want more than one view, and SBS has that - Browse Artists,
Browse Albums, etc.
Mnyb;600507 Wrote:
SBS seems to use it's own internal meta data format ? and the dB is
in that format ok ?
Nothing wrong with improving the information during scanning but I
agree that it shouldn't improve it based on how you like to browse it.
As long as the improvement of the data is
erland;600508 Wrote:
That might be the case but then I don't understand how do you make a
solution like that user friendly on the Controller and Radio. There is
a reason a classic iPod have a different user interface than iTunes on
a computer.
I can see some usage on the web interface and
MrSinatra;600513 Wrote:
you could have a bunch of sort methods predefined, and you would just
cycle thru them. the predefined list would of course be editable, so
you could delete sorts you didn't use and add ones you wanted.
these issues could be overcome, not a big deal.
When/if you
MrSinatra;600511 Wrote:
i really think you don't understand what i am saying or suggesting.
lets say you had one view based on a specific folder location that was
a subset of your files. using my suggestion, you could sort that view
any way you wanted:
albums, year
artist, albums
I think multiple album artists should be represented as a band/group,
in this case Jimmy Page Robert Plant instead of two individual
artists. If you want to represent them as individual artists you get
into problem when you want to sort the Albums menu by artist, should
this be sorted by Jimmy
I think the settings that requires a rescan is:
- Separator for Multiple Items in Tags
- Group discs
- Treat TPE2 MP3 tag as ...
Sounds about right - there aren't many things that cause a rescan. But I think
you also missed Articles To Ignore When Sorting.
Also, they are generally things that
That might be the case but then I don't understand how do you make a
solution like that user friendly on the Controller and Radio. There is
a reason a classic iPod have a different user interface than iTunes on
a computer.
Exactly. iPod UI is pretty rubbish in terms of browsing libraries, and
Philip Meyer;600700 Wrote:
I think multiple album artists should be represented as a band/group,
in this case Jimmy Page Robert Plant instead of two individual
artists. If you want to represent them as individual artists you get
into problem when you want to sort the Albums menu by artist,
- You don't have to add ALBUMARTISTs to any album. Artists will end
up in album artist list without them.
Same as SBS.
- The way to identify and group compilation albums is to add an
ALBUMARTIST, and the string used can be anything you like: Various,
Compilations, Various Artists,
Maybe we should start to look at this as automatically assigning album
artist instead of automatic detection of compilation albums.
Doesn't it already do this by storing an album artist in albums.contributor
(albeit if there are more than one, it would need to find the album artists via
the
4. do nothing and let the album appear under each artist on the album
(assuming they ever let you turn off the VA detect logic
As I've said before, it's not as simple as just turning off VA detect logic.
If you did, you wouldn't have tracks with different artists gathered under a
single album
Hmm I would argue that AA tags are not very common at all .
The typical recomended string for EAC does not add it and cd rippers
using freedb never adds it ? I don't think it is in freedB's metadata
.
And freedB is7was a very common way to get this data
I wouldn't say that AA were common or
Philip Meyer;600714 Wrote:
Maybe we should start to look at this as automatically assigning album
artist instead of automatic detection of compilation albums.
Doesn't it already do this by storing an album artist in
albums.contributor (albeit if there are more than one, it would need to
erland;600723 Wrote:
My suggestion is that:
- Group compilation albums is hard coded to be activated
- Artists menu remains unchanged
- We add a new All Artists menu that have the same content as
Artists have today when you have disabled the Group compilation
albums setting.
That's
JJZolx;600170 Wrote:
I'm a little torn about whether or not this would be an improvement for
SbS. For one thing, it might force you to add ALBUMARTIST tags to every
album, which is not common, in order to use this browse mode. Also,
Rockbox can't sort albums by artist, so I'm not sure
erland;600220 Wrote:
The issue is that SBS tries to do everything with a single browse menu
and instead force the user to change settings to change the behavior.
Well, partially right - there are several browse menus:
Browse Artists / Years / Genres / etc, and Browse Albums
The problem with
guys,
not trying to beat a dead horse here, but i really wonder if some
people can see the forest through the trees?
please have another look at this thread:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74822
the main jist of it is that the current design fails in multiple ways,
and that
MrSinatra;600382 Wrote:
the main jist of it is that the current design fails in multiple ways,
and that there is an easily available alternative way that is intuitive
and makes sense.
Just to make sure I understand this, what would the easily available
alternative be ?
Most of us want
not trying to beat a dead horse here
Really? There really aren't that many posts in this forum from users other
than from yourself about it.
the main jist of it is that the current design fails in multiple ways,
Oh what a suprise, you've posted about a post from yourself on the same subject
Most of us want flexible browsing instead of new options, so we don't
have to argue about that.
Agreed.
Unfortunately this have never been a priority
for Logitech and I haven't seen any indication that it's about to
change.
Very true.
I don't want to add ALBUMARTIST tags to my normal albums.
Me
Philip Meyer;600430 Wrote:
To me, it makes more sense to separate:
- Main artists
- All artists
Instead of the current solution where we separate:
- Artists on normal albums
- Artists on compilation albums
The information is already there: get a distinct list of artists from
the
erland;600395 Wrote:
Just to make sure I understand this, what would the easily available
alternative be ?
its in that thread. i can repeat it here, but lets break down the
detail there. suffice it to say...
...think of it this way, the scanner already gets pretty much all the
important
MrSinatra;600469 Wrote:
its in that thread. i can repeat it here, but lets break down the
detail there. suffice it to say...
...think of it this way, the scanner already gets pretty much all the
important tags into the DB. all that has to be done, is change the
manipulation of the
I did some more experimenting to see how Rockbox does it.
Any track that doesn't have an explicit ALBUMARTIST simply has the
artist copied to albumartist in the database. And there doesn't appear
to be any special handling of compilations at all. It doesn't recognize
compilation tags, identify
Hmm I would argue that AA tags are not very common at all .
The typical recomended string for EAC does not add it and cd rippers
using freedb never adds it ? I don't think it is in freedB's metadata
.
And freedB is7was a very common way to get this data
And actually not seen it in commercially
JJZolx;600477 Wrote:
It's the automatic detection of compilation albums by Squeezebox Server
that lets it function without _any_ additional tagging beyond the
standard artist, album, title and track. No need for ALBUMARTIST or
COMPILATION tags at all.
Maybe we should start to look at
Compilation albums with an album artist doesn't show any tracks on Duet
Controller/iPeng. (when browsing the artist menu) The Squeezebox Server
HTTP interface shows track and artist information as expected. (The
compilation albums aren't tagged with a compilation flag)
Well, by definition, if you
please vote for his bug in my sig. SBS is very tedious in its sub par
handling of comp issues.
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www.lion-radio.org
using:
sb2 sbc (my home) / sbrec ipeng (parents' home) - sbs 7.5.2b - win
xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link
dir-655 - 45k+ mp3
Philip Meyer;600127 Wrote:
Well, by definition, if you don't have an compilation tag and have
defined an album artist tag, the album isn't a compilation.
Not really 'by definition', more like 'by implementation'.
I recently got a Sansa Fuze portable Mp3 player and loaded Rockbox on
it. Its
The strange thing is that I haven't changed my tags, and it did work
before...
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JJZolx;600170 Wrote:
Not really 'by definition', more like 'by implementation'.
exactly right, and to be specific, the SBS implementation. for YEARS i
have been saying the presence, or lack of it, of an AA tag should not
mandatorily indicate anything regarding comp status one way or the
other
If I enable the compilation tag the album artist is ignored, it only
shows up under various artists. It does however show the correct artist
title information.
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verypsb
1x Boom, 1x Classic, 2x Duet, 1x Touch
verypsb's
Compilation albums with an album artist doesn't show any tracks on Duet
Controller/iPeng. (when browsing the artist menu) The Squeezebox Server
HTTP interface shows track and artist information as expected. (The
compilation albums aren't tagged with a compilation flag)
--
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1x Boom, 1x
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